Bootstrapping Clean Energy: Vessyll

Summary

Episode Summary: Bootstrapping Clean Energy with Vessel's Zara Hargan Iliff

Podcast: The Unshakeables
Host: Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business
Co-Host: Kathleen Griffith
Guest: Zara Hargan Iliff, Founder of Vessel
Release Date: February 18, 2025

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Introduction: Overcoming Financial Hurdles in Entrepreneurship

In this compelling episode of The Unshakeables, host Ben Walter introduces listeners to Zara Hargan Iliff, the tenacious founder of Vessel, a pioneering company in the clean energy sector. The episode delves into Zara's journey of bootstrapping her business amidst financial constraints and a challenging fundraising environment.

Ben Walter [00:10]:

“You always, no matter what, need cash. When Zara Hargan Iliff launched her company, Vessel, she had all of that except the cash.”

Zara’s initial attempts to secure funding were met with repeated rejections, leaving her disheartened but not defeated.

Zara Hargan Iliff [00:40]:

“When you're building a small business, you need the money now... somewhere between the 5th and the 10th rejection, it was like, ah, yeah, this is not gonna work. It was very defeating...”

Despite these setbacks, Zara’s determination to make Vessel a success set the stage for an inspiring narrative of resilience and innovation.

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Building the Vision: From Construction to Clean Energy

Zara’s background in construction profoundly influenced her approach to building Vessel. Her commitment to sustainability and efficient use of materials became the cornerstone of her business philosophy.

Zara Hargan Iliff [03:05]:

“I come from a construction background... if we're gonna make waste of time or materials. So if there's materials there that can be reused, let's use them.”

Her vision extended beyond aesthetics, emphasizing the functionality and sustainability of energy systems.

Zara Hargan Iliff [04:14]:

“In a complete clean energy system, you generate the energy, you store it, and then you can use it. That's the future of the clean energy transition.”

This holistic approach positioned Vessel to address the complexities of clean energy generation and storage, aiming to create microgrids that empower local communities.

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The Struggle with Venture Capital: Navigating Rejection

Zara’s journey was not without significant challenges, particularly in securing venture capital (VC) funding. Despite her innovative approach, traditional VCs were hesitant to invest without proven market traction.

Zara Hargan Iliff [12:00]:

“Not a dime. Not a dime. I tried... and then quickly learned that that was not gonna happen for me and for Vessel.”

The pandemic further complicated her fundraising efforts, limiting in-person pitches and feedback. This lack of support from VCs forced Zara to explore alternative funding avenues, ultimately leading her to seek innovation grants.

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Pivoting Under Pressure: The Innovation Grant Conundrum

Zara secured a $48,000 matching grant from the state of Minnesota, but stringent conditions rendered much of the funding unusable. Her inability to spend the grant as intended due to supply chain constraints resulted in forfeiting $17,000 of the grant.

Zara Hargan Iliff [14:20]:

“I actually had to give back a significant amount of the grant that I received, about $17,000 because I couldn't spend it.”

This setback was a pivotal moment, compelling Zara to adopt a more scrappy, self-reliant approach to sustain her business.

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Mindset and Resilience: The Secret to Survival

A recurring theme in Zara’s story is the critical role of mindset in overcoming entrepreneurial challenges. Her internal resilience and refusal to give up were instrumental in Vessel’s eventual success.

Kathleen Griffith [10:14]:

“She's attacking this massive category. She seems completely undeterred and totally optimistic about it.”

Zara developed unique coping mechanisms to maintain her focus and drive, including what she termed a "spite speech."

Zara Hargan Iliff [24:08]:

“I have a spite speech... that made me feel better and helped with being like, okay, it'll be fine. Have some resilience. It'll be okay. Keep marching.”

This mental fortitude not only kept her motivated but also fueled her determination to push Vessel forward against the odds.

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Breaking Through: Securing First Sales Through Networking

Zara’s turning point came through effective networking, which culminated in her first significant sale to the Kachil Dehe tribal lands in California. This project marked the beginning of Vessel’s revenue generation and established its credibility in the clean energy market.

Zara Hargan Iliff [26:45]:

“I made that sale through networking.”

Relying heavily on referrals, over 90% of Vessel’s completed projects were secured through word-of-mouth, highlighting the importance of building strong professional relationships.

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Growth and Future Plans: Scaling with Proven Market Fit

With initial sales validating her business model, Zara began exploring more traditional financing options, such as debt financing, to support growth. Her focus shifted from relentlessly pursuing venture capital to leveraging proven revenue streams to scale Vessel sustainably.

Zara Hargan Iliff [27:54]:

“We're definitely in the growth phase now. I'm going the more traditional financing route with banks for growth.”

Looking ahead, Zara envisions expanding Vessel’s impact by continuing to work with tribal entities and other communities seeking clean, sovereign energy solutions.

Zara Hargan Iliff [28:13]:

“I hope and I will be getting involved in more of those projects. It's very exciting.”

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Advice for Entrepreneurs: Emphasizing Mental Health and Flexibility

In her concluding remarks, Zara offers invaluable advice to aspiring entrepreneurs, emphasizing the importance of mental health and adaptability in business planning.

Zara Hargan Iliff [28:51]:

“When you're starting your business, immediately go get some type of counseling, therapy, mentorship...”

She advocates for regularly revisiting and tweaking business plans to stay aligned with evolving market conditions.

Zara Hargan Iliff [28:53]:

“I'm four plus years in every six weeks or so. I go back to my business plan and I tweak it. I found that exercise just to be fantastic.”

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Discussion: The Intersection of Mindset and Business Strategy

Post-interview, Ben and co-host Kathleen engage in a thoughtful discussion about the pivotal role of mindset in entrepreneurship and the broader cultural emphasis on scaling to unicorn status.

Kathleen Griffith [30:26]:

“Founders start focused on skill set... and then they try to build their mindset... It's everything.”

They reflect on Zara’s balanced approach, which prioritizes mental resilience alongside strategic business maneuvers, offering a refreshing perspective compared to conventional entrepreneurial narratives.

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Championing Women in STEM: Turning Challenges into Strengths

The conversation also touches on the unique challenges faced by women in STEM fields, with Zara’s experiences serving as a testament to overcoming gender-related hurdles in a traditionally male-dominated industry.

Zara Hargan Iliff [16:17]:

“I feel like I am asked to explain myself when I feel like there's other people in the room that don't have to explain themselves.”

Despite these challenges, Zara remains undeterred, positioning herself as a leader and role model for other women aspiring to enter STEM and entrepreneurship.

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Conclusion: A Testament to Resilience and Innovation

Zara Hargan Iliff’s journey with Vessel encapsulates the essence of what it means to be unshakeable. Her story is a powerful reminder that resilience, innovative thinking, and a strong mindset are just as critical as financial resources in building a successful business.

Ben Walter [29:59]:

“She understood better than many people... having that mental clarity and focus is something you can't pull apart. They all go together.”

Through her unwavering determination and strategic pivots, Zara transformed Vessel from a cash-strapped startup into a promising player in the clean energy landscape, embodying the spirit of The Unshakeables.

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Key Takeaways

1. Resilience is Crucial: Persistent rejection, especially in funding, requires a steadfast mindset to continue pursuing your vision.
2. Mindset Over Money: Mental health and adaptability can be as important as financial backing in navigating entrepreneurial challenges.
3. Networking Matters: Building strong professional relationships and leveraging referrals can open doors that traditional funding avenues might not.
4. Regular Reevaluation: Continuously updating business plans ensures alignment with market changes and fosters adaptability.
5. Embrace Being an Outlier: Women and minorities in STEM can turn perceived disadvantages into unique strengths, fostering diversity and innovation.

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Notable Quotes

• Zara Hargan Iliff [00:40]:

  “When you're building a small business, you need the money now...”

• Zara Hargan Iliff [03:05]:

  “I come from a construction background... if we're gonna make waste of time or materials.”

• Zara Hargan Iliff [24:08]:

  “I have a spite speech... that made me feel better and helped with being like, okay, it'll be fine.”

• Zara Hargan Iliff [28:51]:

  “When you're starting your business, immediately go get some type of counseling, therapy, mentorship...”

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Final Thoughts

Zara Hargan Iliff’s story is a beacon for small business owners facing similar struggles. Her ability to navigate financial constraints, coupled with her unwavering belief in her vision, underscores the importance of resilience and adaptability in entrepreneurship. This episode not only highlights the challenges of bootstrapping a clean energy company but also celebrates the indomitable spirit of The Unshakeables who turn adversity into opportunity.

Transcript

[Ben Walter]

It takes a lot of things to start a small business. You need a great idea, you need drive, you need determination. Sometimes you need a great partner, many times a great product. But you always, no matter what, need cash. When Zara Hargan's Iliff launched her company, Vessel, she had all of that except the cash. It's not like she didn't try. She took Vessel all over, looking for someone to believe in her vision. But the answer was always the same.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Well, go sell some. Let us know how it went, and if that's successful, we'll come back and maybe fund you later on. Well, when you're building a small business, you need the money now. I was shocked, but somewhere between the 5th and the 10th rejection, it was like, ah, yeah, this is not gonna work. It was very defeating, and I was taking a lot of blows.

[Ben Walter]

But Zara had to make it work.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

I got really frustrated, and then I was just. Something in my head goes, eff it. You're going it alone. We're just gonna go for it.

[Ben Walter]

On today's episode, how she did it. Welcome to the Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business. On the Unshakables, we are sharing the daring moments of small business owners facing their crisis points and telling the stories of how they got through it. We'll hear more from Zara, but I'd like to welcome Kathleen Griffith back to the Unshakables. Hey, Kathleen, how are you? Welcome back.

[Kathleen Griffith]

So glad to be back in the stud studio with you.

[Ben Walter]

And back in New York.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Back in New York, my old stomping grounds. I love it here. I love the electricity of this city, the entrepreneurial culture, all the small businesses. You can have three pizza places on one block each says they're better than the next. It's just. There's nothing better than the Big Apple.

[Ben Walter]

You know, I live here, and I really. I just don't eat enough pizza because I'm trying to watch it. I try to be. And there's one around the corner from my office. I walk by and I smell it, and I'm just like, what am I doing?

[Kathleen Griffith]

We can make that happen, Ben.

[Ben Walter]

I'm down for that later. But first we have another terrific story I want to share with you today. It's about Vessel, which is a company that makes batteries of all things.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Batteries are huge as a category, you know, I just came across this report from Bain & Co. That it's expected to quadruple by 2030.

[Ben Walter]

Sounds like, she's an excellent company then. So I won't keep you from the story any longer. On today's episode, Vessel from St. Paul, Minnesota. I want to get this out of the way at the top. Zara is a builder. We've had past guests who are farmers, designers, detailers, sock makers, and concerned parents. But Zara is, above everything else, someone who loves to make things.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

I come from a construction background. It has always been my personal philosophy that if we are going to build something, not to make waste of time or materials. So if there's materials there that can be reused, let's use them. But if we are gonna be using new materials, let's care about where it's sourced, let's care about if it's durable, renewable. And before thinking about how at the end of the life of this building or home, how is this gonna, like, fade out or be replaced? Let's be very conscious about that and almost like pre build for what we can see in the future.

[Ben Walter]

Not only is she a builder, she's an incredibly thoughtful builder. It's not enough to make sure everything looks great. It has to be functional and beautifully so in every aspect. She talks about the mechanical or the electrical, the behind the scenes elements of a house as the thing that makes the house live and operate.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

When I walk into mechanical rooms, they're so beautiful and like, all the stuff is tied in wonderfully. It's like that movie Pulp Fiction where they opened up the briefcase and like light just shines. And the pinnacle of that to me is energy energy.

[Ben Walter]

And for Zara, that means clean energy.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Because in a complete clean energy system, you generate the energy, you store it, and then you can use it. So an example is like, let's say you had rooftop solar. You're generating that energy and you can trickle off that energy into the batteries and they can load up and store. You've now basically made your own micro grid. And that is the future of the clean energy transition, is that we're gonna be generating using power closer to our homes and buildings.

[Ben Walter]

You just one day woke up and said, I'm gonna start a company. It can't have been that simple.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

No, it was not that simple. I wish there was a day where like the confetti went off and the lights all illuminated and I go, that's it. It wasn't. It was more of a incremental advancement. It just seemed to be something that I was reading about, wanted to research more, wanted to see more of it. Something that you just cannot, strangely enough, for me, that was batteries. And it sounds very strange.

[Ben Walter]

Zara wasn't totally unfamiliar with large scale battery use before she started vessel. She started thinking about this in 2020. Her partner was working for Tesla at the time in the energy Department.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

So in our free time, we literally talk about the areas of our interest and what can we build, because that gives me great joy to build things. So we were looking at building infrastructure with EV chargers, talked about it, planned for it, penciled it, but it didn't keep my interest. Looked at other things in the clean energy space and batteries. I just like couldn't let it go and I couldn't stop thinking about it. It seemed like I'd already subconsciously accepted that's what I was going to do. And the pandemic was an amazing time to have the open space and freedom. So it's literally just sitting on the living room floor with articles and like papers and white PA and then up on my laptop is this other research paper I'm reading and just understanding what it is and a lot of conversations. And then we get to play with.

[Ben Walter]

And test with batteries and specifically lithium iron phosphate batteries. They're more stable, safer, and longer lasting than traditional lithium ion batteries. And they're already in use for mass energy deployment in other parts of the world.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

This is not a brand new technology in other places in the world. This technology has existed for a decade, which is very good for us because as we grow and make this transition, we can look at the materials and the data that has been existing in other parts of the world and incorporate that and learn from that.

[Ben Walter]

So how did you go from an idea that I want to do commercial batteries to okay, I've got a business plan and I've got a product design and I've got whatever else you needed.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Yep, yep. Started to put together the prototype.

[Ben Walter]

Yeah.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

That I bootstrapped with my own funds.

[Ben Walter]

Just on your own, like literally working at home, you designed a battery?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Yes, they're in my garage. Thank goodness they came out of my garage because that got really difficult in winter. Of course, it's freezing winters here. It gets so cold. And batteries, by the way, do not really like too hot or too cold.

[Ben Walter]

Zara found space in a university lab where she could run research and development for vessel.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

My favorite electrical engineer came and we put stuff together and we started testing things and we powered a lamp and then we would just bring things into test and like, how long can these batteries go and how long can they run little appliances? And we took those calculations and then you scale it and Sent it over for safety testing, which is really important.

[Ben Walter]

Now, of course, when I hear lab, I imagine a mad scientist with sparks flying, lots of little plumes of smoke. So I had to ask if there had ever been any explosions.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Yeah. Yes. Do you know, in my industry, though, we don't use that word. We use the term thermal event.

[Ben Walter]

Soon, Zara had a prototype of her battery. It was definitely a bit larger than a Duracell.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

This prototype is about £350. So that's fun. Do you know, like the old style box TVs, they're that same size. The prototype is pretty big.

[Ben Walter]

And it wasn't just the batteries that were big.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Some of my competitors are kind of like big boys, you know, they're the Tesla and the lg. When I decided to formally launch, I was not scared.

[Ben Walter]

You were not scared?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

I was so excited about it. I wasn't scared. A lot of companies in my space, in my industry either play in the utility grade space. Really large projects, literally at the power plant.

[Ben Walter]

Yep.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Or residential. And I could see right away a need. And just from talking to solar installers, electricians, electrical engineers, who would say, hey, I cannot source this. So there was a space there in commercial, industrial, that there's a need that needs to be met. And I'm meeting that need.

[Ben Walter]

Kathleen Zara's story is really interesting.

[Kathleen Griffith]

And she used. So I've got a notebook here that says build on the front of it. She must have used that word a hundred times. And the way that I define a builder is someone who has a vision, who intentionally steps into realizing that vision on a daily basis. And she's an actual builder. She's a legit, real deal builder.

[Ben Walter]

She makes stuff.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Yeah, it's pretty neat.

[Ben Walter]

I mean, it's clear that she was able to find the intersection of a number of passions. Right. She's passionate about sustainability, she's passionate about building stuff. She's been able to put a bunch of passions together in a unique way.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about internal belief? Because she strikes me as delusionally optimistic. There's that great saying, you're only crazy until you do it.

[Ben Walter]

Yep.

[Kathleen Griffith]

And she is attacking this massive category. She seems completely undeterred and totally optimistic about it. So do you think that is a necessary trait for a founder to have?

[Ben Walter]

I do. What was different about Zara's approach is most of the people I meet who have what you're saying have this insane belief that they can conquer. They tend to be overwhelming personalities. And Zara's not. She's lovely. I would say she's on the introverted side.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Calm, cool and collected.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Right?

[Ben Walter]

Calm, cool and collected. Understated. And so she kind of strikes me as a bit of an entrepreneurial assassin. Like, she's quietly patting around, just killing it, and no one even noticed.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Right. I'm really on the same page with you. Like, I think optimism, having this self belief, this internal belief that you are going to forcibly push something into the world that is just in your mind's eye, what that requires is just a tremendous amount of belief in oneself.

[Ben Walter]

I want to talk more about this mindset later, which, spoiler, I do think is Zara's secret sauce. But let's get back to the story. So you formed the company. You and your co founder are working in this lab. You're coming up with designs, you're collaborating with people, and then you decide, okay, if we really want to do this, we got to go get some cash.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

We got to get some cash. So I took my pitch deck, took my business plan, and I hit the circuit, the VC circuit.

[Ben Walter]

And you, you got tons of money right away, overnight, for sure.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Not a dime. Not a dime.

[Ben Walter]

Okay.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Nope. I tried. I figured that, okay, I'm gonna go get VC money. I'm gonna be able to buy a bunch of materials and engineering help and just like, go at it. And then quickly learned that that was not gonna happen for me and for vessel. And the frustrating part for me was that I struggled getting good feedback. I wanted to know why, like, what was going on? What didn't you like? And I was assuming that I would get that feedback and then I can make adjustments and then, you know, go for the next onto the next vc and got none of that. Now, granted, a lot of this was during the pandemic. I don't think, not one time did I pitch in person.

[Ben Walter]

Did you know why at the time? And if not, do you know why now?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

I do not know why now. I do not have any hindsight on it. I was told that, hey, this looks really interesting. Come back to me when you have some sales. That was the common feedback, which wasn't, you know.

[Ben Walter]

Right. Yeah, they wanted proven product market fit, and you wanted money to prove the money to get market fit.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

So, yeah, then I started, okay, we got to find something else. I got to do something else. So, you know, scoured sites and, like, how can I get ahold of money to help me buy more materials and can I start demonstration projects? And. And then at the same time, really worked my networking, and then you've got to say, okay, this is not working. I have to pivot.

[Ben Walter]

How many no's do you think you got?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

I know it's not going to sound a lot because I hear people like do it a hundred times a thirty something. That was enough for me though, because it is extremely time consuming. I've got to go back to my product. I've got to go back to my company. I can't keep doing this.

[Ben Walter]

Right. It's not like you're making a salary in the meantime. You got to go do something.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Exactly. And then also you're not working on your business during that time.

[Ben Walter]

Yeah.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

You're solely trying to raise money. I was very, very surprised. I couldn't raise money. I was very shocked.

[Ben Walter]

With no VC funding on the horizon, Zara continued to research other ways to raise some money. She found an innovation grant that the state of Minnesota was funding. And unlike the VC she pitched to Minnesota, saw potential in her.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Very sweet. I was so excited about it. It was great. And that grant turned out to be a nice idea, but completely unhelpful.

[Ben Walter]

Zara had been awarded a matching grant.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

So you have to spend the money and then they will reimburse you. It was 48,000. I was bootstrapping it and I spent a lot of money on materials already and things were really tight with cash flow. So the problem with that is that, first of all, it's not like a cash grant where they just give it to you and you take the money, you go and spend it. You have to have the capital to spend it. So I have to make a decision. You know, let's say do I spend 10,000 on a new website and new branding, or do I buy materials and engineering time? I know those figures sound so low, but when you are a startup business and you are scraping for every dollar and I only have X amount of money, Another parameter around that grant was that they wanted you to use the money within the state of Minnesota. So all materials and contractors had to be in Minnesota. But my materials aren't made here and they're made overseas. Unfortunately, we just do not make battery cells in the United States. So I actually had to give back a significant amount of the grant that I received, about $17,000 because I couldn't spend it because I didn't have the money up front. It was very defeating. And that was also during the time where I was really hitting my head against the wall with raising money. It was really like I was taking a lot of blows. And then I got really frustrated and something in My head goes, eff it. You're going it alone. We're just gonna go for it. And we're gonna get really scrappy and we're gonna keep applying for things.

[Ben Walter]

Did that leave you low on cash?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it did. It did at that time.

[Ben Walter]

I haven't met too many women working in the clean energy space. Are there a lot?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

No, not a lot, but I'm kind of used to that because there weren't a lot in construction.

[Ben Walter]

Do you think being a woman ever affected your ability to raise money to make sales? Do you think it's a factor or not? I always wonder.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

I wonder that too, because no one ever tells you. You get like a kind of inkling if I would show up and look a different way. I found this in construction. It is having to explain to people that I can do this. I get asked a lot, are you an engineer? I say, no, I'm not an engineer, but I work very closely in hiring engineers. Are you a professor? Nope, I'm not a professor. I work very closely at some universities. I feel like I am asked to explain myself when I feel like there's other people in the room that don't have to explain themselves. They don't have to take the five minutes to be like, how did you get here? So I don't know if it's that or being a woman or it could be both. I don't know. I actually don't care. That stuff doesn't scare me. It's just disappointing. It will slightly make me concerned. It's like, am I not gonna have enough people that are brave and are just gonna go with the status quo because it makes them feel safe? Or is this market or this industry gonna allow space for me because I can't get in unless I'm let in.

[Ben Walter]

Did you ever think about giving up?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

No, I just got a little bit angry.

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[Ben Walter]

I want to pause for a moment and I think we need to talk about a few of these things. Since I'm in finance, I have to focus on this a little bit. I thought it was fascinating, the pivot she was able to do for a capital intensive business to find ways to bootstrap it up. You really don't hear a lot of that. And we talk a lot about sourcing capital on this show. It's a very personal decision for a business owner. But in some cases it's just not a choice.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Right?

[Ben Walter]

She did what she had to do.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Venture capital is interesting because people always think to go there first and someone said something great, which is like venture capital is like you go on one date and you decide to get married and you can never get divorced again.

[Ben Walter]

That's a good analogy.

[Kathleen Griffith]

And she talked about that, right? Like 30 some odd pitches. Do you think she should go back to venture?

[Ben Walter]

I think it depends. So one of the things I always advise entrepreneurs is what are you trying to achieve from a business perspective? But what are you also trying to achieve financially? Because some people just want to build a business that can earn them a nice living and they can do what they love. I'm for that, if that's what you want. If she's trying to build something that disrupts the entire industry, she's going to have to go raise capital because she'll never scale enough.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Let's dig in on that a little bit more because when I think about our culture, one of the things that sprang to mind as you were saying, that we're so obsessed with these big businesses, right? Scaling to this huge place, the unicorns. So do you think that's part of it? Where people have a hard time also just admitting that that's not the game.

[Ben Walter]

They'Re in, social influences in general have been turned up to volume 12, right. You know, this is what you're supposed to want. No? What do you want?

[Kathleen Griffith]

Right. Let's all embrace that today. Let's get radically honest with ourselves and embrace where we're at.

[Ben Walter]

There are no rules and you get to be as selfish as you want. One of the things that, particularly being in a corporate environment or a business environment, we're taught it's not about you, it's about the customers, it's about the company, it's about your teammates, it's about society, it's about your employees, it's about your shareholders. That's all true once you're running a business. But when you're deciding what business you want to run and what business you want to build, that can be the most selfish decision ever. And it's fine.

[Kathleen Griffith]

You know, she was talking to. She decided to then walk away from raising capital formally. I was thinking about Melanie Perkins, you know, the founder of Canva, which is a great small business. And she got a hundred no's and she was undeterred. She just kept pitching and pitching. And now I think her company's 40, 50 billion dollars. Is the valuation. Something like that.

[Ben Walter]

For our sports fans out there, it's a low batting average, high at bats game.

[Kathleen Griffith]

To get into the hall of Fame, you need like a 30% batting average.

[Ben Walter]

Yeah. When Babe Ruth broke the home run record, he was also the leader in strikeouts. But how do you know when you're hearing no for the right reasons? The wrong reasons. Like is it time to pivot and change your pitch? Is it not me, it's you? Or it's actually me or how does that. How do we think about that?

[Kathleen Griffith]

Well, yeah, I think you do need to take a step back and clearly it is you at a certain point and you need to recalibrate. I think there are two things that she could have done better, maybe three without knowing her mindset intimately. Well, the first is to negotiate live. She said she did all of her negotiations remotely.

[Ben Walter]

Pandemic.

[Kathleen Griffith]

I know. And it put her in a very difficult position. But you've got to be in the room. You have got to find a way to be in the room. So that's the first. The second is, I would say to welcome awkward negotiations, make an ask and then let it hang awkwardly in the air. Just allow that pause to hang out there.

[Ben Walter]

Okay.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Awkward pause.

[Ben Walter]

I was waiting.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Okay, that's it. That's it.

[Ben Walter]

So what's the advantage of the pause? Because you'll start backing off if you don't.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Exactly. So you tend to shift your position. You'll take your number down, you'll start giving all these caveats that make you seem less strong and sure footed in your position.

[Ben Walter]

Okay. And three.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Yeah. So this is mindset. So this is to just identify as someone who's filthy rich. This was like, actually a major aha for me because I always saw everyone else when I was walking into these rooms as they're the rich people and I'm here to get money.

[Ben Walter]

Okay.

[Kathleen Griffith]

And so when that shifted, when I just started to see myself as a filthy rich woman who maybe at the time didn't have a huge bank account, but that's how I was going to start to move through the world. My bank account did change dramatically. So that might be woo woo. But try it on for size.

[Ben Walter]

Woo woo. Or not. Mindset really is key to so much of what we do. Okay, so back to Zara's story. Because her mindset at that moment, well, it was a little bit angry, but there was no chance she was going to give up on vessel.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

It's absolutely not an option. Not when it's such a great idea and I know the future of it and I cannot let go. I just. I can't let go. Whenever I got really angry, there are occasional times I'd go outside, outside of the loading dock and scream into the air. So that was helpful. But also recite this speech that I would be giving in the future sometime. A spite speech, I called it.

[Ben Walter]

So say more about that.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Okay, so I have a spite speech in my head. I've listed all of the people who have told me no and don't believe in me. And I would recite this thing in my head for some reason, that made me feel better and helped with being like, okay, it'll be fine. Have some resilience. It'll be okay. Keep marching.

[Ben Walter]

That might be the coolest entrepreneurial coping mechanism I have ever heard in my life.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

My spite speech.

[Ben Walter]

It's such a good mechanism, in fact, that the team here at the Unshakeables has unanimously decided that the Awakening Award for best entrepreneurial coping mechanism goes to Zara Hargen. Zayliff. Zara, the floor is yours for your speech.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Okay, so I'm at the podium, I've got my evening gown on. I'm looking at the people in the audience, and I say, wilbur, do you remember that when I pitched to you at your VC equity firm, you did not call me back. You said you would respond to me, give me feedback, and you didn't. And then you just basically wrote me an email that said, no, period. Look at me now. My company makes a lot of money. And thank you. No, thank you. And Franklin, you did not believe in me. You couldn't kind of wrap your head around that. I was not a scientist and I was not an engineer. And you had no faith in one point, you actually called my product imaginary magic and it wasn't going to work the way I thought it was. And you had absolutely no faith in me. And so look at me now.

[Ben Walter]

That's fantastic. I love imaginary magic. That's fantastic.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Basically you said that. Yeah. Thanks.

[Ben Walter]

Okay, so then at some point you broke through, Right. So take me from the grant had just fallen apart. You're low on cash, you're giving a spite speech. But then at some point something gives, right?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Yeah. I started making money from revenue and one of my first jobs, fully paying energy storage projects was at the Kachil Dehe tribal lands in Calusa, California. And you know, there is quite a number of tribal lands that have invested and really taken an innovative approach to clean energy. On tribal lands they have 52 homes, a casino, hotels, common buildings, all run off of clean energy.

[Ben Walter]

Okay.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Completely free of utility power. It's amazing.

[Ben Walter]

How did you make that sale?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

I made that sale through networking.

[Ben Walter]

Okay.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

And by the way, I did an exercise with my business consultant not so long ago where we looked at completed projects recently and little over 90% of them were for referral based networking.

[Ben Walter]

That's fantastic. So how many of these systems have you now put in?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

I have over a dozen systems in and we've got a lot of work in the pipeline. Because of the scale of our projects, our lead times are quite significant.

[Ben Walter]

Yeah, it's gotta be a long sales cycle, right? Oof.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Yeah.

[Ben Walter]

12, 18 months and then a long production. How long is the production cycle for some of these?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Actually a production cycle is not that bad. I am concerned about manufacturing, I am concerned about supply chain. Since there is parts of my battery modules that are coming from overseas. The more people I talk to, they're understanding what it is. So it's not such an educational effort. People are understanding these systems more and more. So we're definitely in the growth phase now. I'm going the more traditional financing route with banks for growth.

[Ben Walter]

Right. So now that you've proven the market works, you can go for debt financing instead of equity financing.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Yeah, I want to see how far this goes. All I know, we're in an energy transition. We can't feel it. Like when you're in a transition, you don't understand sometimes you can't see it that you're in the middle of it, but we're in the middle of it.

[Ben Walter]

So if you could wave A magic wand. What do you hope for vessel in the next year?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

More projects, more sales, more deployment. And I just would love to continue to be in the space of working with tribal entities for helping the lands become free energy, sovereign, independent systems. That work is so just heartwarming. I love it so much. I hope and I will be getting involved in more of those projects. It's very exciting.

[Ben Walter]

I'd like to end on a question that we ask all of our guests on the show, which is if you had just one piece of advice that you could give to our listeners, who are largely entrepreneurs and aspiring business owners, what would that piece of advice be?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Be Can I give two?

[Ben Walter]

I'll let you cheat. Don't worry.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Okay, thanks.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Thanks.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

First, I would say when you're starting your business, immediately go get some type of counseling, therapy, mentorship. So much of this business building and resilience and dedication is going to have to do a lot with your mental state and your mental health. So a lot of it is like keeping that sharp, keeping that clear. That would be my number one advice. My second bit of advice would be I'm four plus years in every six weeks or so. I go back to my business plan and I tweak it. I found that exercise just to be fantastic, and it changes so much. And it tells you that your pivots are working or they're not working because whatever you intended to do in the beginning is probably not what you're doing now.

[Ben Walter]

That's great advice. Well, Zara, I just can't thank you enough for being on the show. This has been so fun.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

Yeah.

[Ben Walter]

I love your story. We're all inspired by it. So thank you for being here with us today.

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

That's so sweet. Thank you for having me. I feel so honored.

[Ben Walter]

So the most interesting thing for me in the whole thing was the advice that she gave at the end, which I would combine with her spite speech. And everything else was she understood better than many people. I've seen how mental this thing is and how much of this is about the mental clarity, the focus and the drive. And the fact that having that mental clarity and focus is. You can't pull those things apart. They all go together.

[Kathleen Griffith]

It's everything. And most founders start focused on skill set, right? You learn the hardcore skill. Sales, financials, marketing, pitching, brand strategy, right? Customer service, you name it. And then they try to build their mindset off the back of that. They're trying to kind of cobble it on top. And I think for anyone who's listening right now, if you're starting a business for the first time to be able to focus on your mindset first as the foundation, realizing what those foundational practices need to be. So you've got a vision and you know how to take care of yourself, how to practice good self care, all of those things to be able to go the distance. You're building a very different sort of business like that, right?

[Ben Walter]

Yeah. It's a completely different approach than we've heard from other guests, and I thought it was refreshing and interesting. I also want to spend a little bit of time on her second piece of advice because we had another guest on Kathleen who said, I wrote my business plan and it is my rock and it doesn't change and I go back to it and it's my bible. And then we got very different advice from Zara, who said, I have a business plan and I update it every six weeks because the world changes. Where do you come down?

[Kathleen Griffith]

You don't hear that often. She shifted, right? So initially she's coming in, she's thinking venture capital, she has plans to scale pretty sizably. And that shifted a bit where she's really bootstrapping. So it makes sense to reevaluate.

[Ben Walter]

How many women small business owners have you mentored? A lot. Right?

[Zara Hargan Iliff]

A lot.

[Kathleen Griffith]

And we've got now close to, I think 100,000 women in our community who are all small business owners.

[Ben Walter]

We talked to Zara about being a woman, particularly in a STEM field, in an engineering field, which is not the most female dense. How should people think about being outliers in their field? You know, women is one case. Could be minorities, could be people from other countries, could be whatever. But, you know, let's focus on women in this case. Is there a way to turn what can be perceived as a disadvantage into an advantage?

[Kathleen Griffith]

I mean, I see being a founder as your number one power tool. Is you stepping into the limelight, is you owning your personal brand irrespective of what category you're in? Then it becomes really doubly powerful when you are in a category that is traditionally dominated by other people that are not you. So as you mentioned STEM, less than 30% of women are in STEM currently. You know, so numbers are still relatively anemic. This to me feels like just such a great opportunity for her to be able to become a voice in the space, a leader in the space.

[Ben Walter]

But how do we deal with the fact? I mean, when she says, I had to justify myself in a way that I've never seen a man have to justify himself that's gotta be tough.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Yes. And in. This might be a controversial point of view, but I don't think focusing or fixating on that is helpful at a certain point, when you just wholly own the uniqueness of who and what you are as a founder and the fact that normally as a founder, you are an extension of your business too. Right. It's one and the same. That's when you start to become really undeniable.

[Ben Walter]

Well, and Zara seems particularly unflappable about the whole thing.

[Kathleen Griffith]

That's right.

[Ben Walter]

So I think she'll be fine. I am blown away by Zara's story, and I think there's some really good lessons for everyone in there. So, Kathleen, I can't thank you enough for being back on the show and helping us pick that apart.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Yeah, thanks for having me. Unpacking that one was really good fun. You know, I've got a special place in my heart for female founders, so this one was particularly great for me.

[Ben Walter]

I'm sure we'll find some more. Thanks for being here. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Unshakeables. If you liked this episode, please rate and review it on the next episode. We are completing your outfit. It's not enough just to have great shoes, though. If you like shoes, you should check out our episode with George Esquivel. You also need great accessories. One woman in Kansas City made some and launched a multi million dollar entertainment enterprise. All from a pair of earrings.

[Kathleen Griffith]

It was almost like I had discovered a new dinosaur. I'm like, I have to tell you about the coolest discovery I just made.

[Ben Walter]

I'm Ben Walter and this is the Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. We'll see you back here soon.