Podcast Summary: The Unshakeables

Episode: “Emergency Care with Compassion: Apogee Care”

Host: Ben Walter (CEO, Chase for Business)
Co-Host: Kathleen Griffith
Guests: Dr. Kevin Bice and Dr. Daniel Arteaga (Co-founders, Apogee Care)
Release Date: November 11, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode of The Unshakeables, Ben Walter and Kathleen Griffith sit down with Dr. Kevin Bice and Dr. Daniel Arteaga of Apogee Care. The discussion centers on the crisis facing older adults in emergency departments across America, highlighting the inefficiencies of the current system and showcasing Apogee Care’s technology-enabled, compassionate approach to transforming geriatric emergency care. This is a classic "from zero to one" founder story in a heavily regulated, high-stakes industry.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Problem: Geriatric Crisis in Emergency Care

• Older adults often end up in crowded ERs not because of acute emergencies, but due to vague, non-specific complaints exacerbated by frailty, dementia, or lack of alternatives.
• The current system leads to long wait times, worsened health outcomes, and huge costs:
  • Daniel Arteaga [01:15]: “There was an older lady on a cot in the corner... I come back 12 hours later, same corner, same cot, same lady. I got pissed.”
  • Kevin Bice [01:24]: “To us, that is a crisis. Medical humanitarian. It’s a problem to be solved.”

2. Defining the Stakeholders and Pain Points

• Patients like “Mrs. Smith,” an 82-year-old with dementia, are poorly served (04:00–05:00).
  • Daniel Arteaga [04:08]: “The ER’s running around with the stroke and the heart attack and everything. They’re not going to know why she’s there... If they find something that looks weird, they’re gonna put her in the hospital and move on.”
• If unattended for hours, patients develop additional issues (e.g., delirium), further taxing the system.

3. Apogee Care’s Origin Story

• The co-founders became passionate about better geriatric care through direct experience as physicians.
  • Kevin Bice [03:12]: “My first job in high school was actually serving tables at a retirement home.”
  • Both were frustrated by seeing older patients wait pointlessly and receive suboptimal care.

4. Initial Attempts at Systemic Change

• Tried rolling out new training, protocols, and accreditation programs — but only five of 600 hospitals took the next step (05:29–05:57).
• Real breakthrough: bringing in outside expertise via technology, moving beyond just in-person consultations.

5. Combining Tech & Compassion

• Initial pitch was as a tech solution; ultimately realized human (compassionate) touch was paramount, with technology as an enabler.
  • Kevin Bice [06:28]: “We realized exactly how much the human touch... really, really mattered. That’s what we bring to the table now. And it’s up to us to leverage the technology to deliver it...”
  • Daniel Arteaga [06:58]: “You define that service and then you bring the tech in to make that service more efficient...”

6. How Apogee Care Works

• Contracted by hospitals; identifies geriatric patients who would benefit most.
• Offers virtual consultations with geriatric experts, resulting in either a comprehensive care or discharge plan, and follow-up monitoring at home.
• Main value: gets patients home safely, saves payer money, and frees up ER capacity (07:23).

7. Entrepreneurial Hazards & Fundraising Reality

• Initially struggled to raise capital because they never made a clear ask.
  • Daniel Arteaga [08:07]: “Everybody was like, that’s so cool. That’s awesome... And so I went to... a friend who fundraises... He goes, well, do you ask ’em for money? ...And that same day... I’m like, okay, then are you in for a hundred? And he’s like, yes.”
  • Ben Walter [08:52]: “It’s funny how that works.”
• First million raised from angel investors, leading to real hospital partners (11:56-12:17).
• Navigated chicken-and-egg issues: couldn't build without clients, couldn’t get clients without money.

8. Early Wins and Proof of Concept

• First patient: tech glitches, in-person follow-up, a formative lesson in required collaboration (13:27–13:50).
• Won over skeptical ER staff through persistence and by demonstrating real value—became “chased down the hallway” by nurses (14:23–15:22).
• Identified complex medical issues (e.g., Parkinsonism misdiagnosed as recurrent falls), saving time, money, and suffering (15:22–16:16).

9. The Economics and Scaling

• Demonstrated significant ROI to insurers: each consult saves around $3,000 and costs $400–500 (16:30–17:01).
• Hospitals can save $5 million a year by deploying Apogee’s model.
• Scaling is about “going deep” in select regional markets, not spreading thin across the nation (22:49–23:45).
• AI is vital to productivity: “The computer can pull [key info] out for us, organize it, tell our workflow... so Daniel doesn’t have to see every patient” (23:45).

10. Handling Multi-Tiered Customer Complexity

• Apogee serves hospitals, insurers, and patients—all with unique requirements (20:15–22:11).
• Advice for handling complexity: assign dedicated leaders to each customer base and map out work streams.

11. Co-Founders with Complementary Strengths

• Kevin: “the trees” (systems/process); Daniel: “the forest” (big picture).
  • Daniel Arteaga [25:42]: “You better surround yourself with people that make you a little bit uncomfortable... Otherwise, we will just collectively, you know, blissfully fail. Like, if we don’t challenge each other.”
• Emphasized importance of having a co-founder who complements, not duplicates, your skillset (30:00–31:48).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Daniel Arteaga [01:15]: “I come back 12 hours later, same corner, same cot, same lady. I got pissed.”
• Ben Walter [09:48]: “I liken it to when you go to the mechanic and he’s like, you need a new gasket. What are you gonna be like, no, I think this gasket’s good, right?”
• Kathleen Griffith [11:39]: “Go super high and super low” (about balancing emotion and facts in a pitch).
• Kevin Bice [16:30]: “If we put a team in an emergency department... they’re saving an insurer something in the ballpark of $5 million a year.”
• Daniel Arteaga [25:42]: “If I like what everybody around me is saying, I’m not doing a very good job leading anything because I’m just getting an echo chamber.”
• Ben Walter [26:24]: “One of my favorite phrases is, I’m not crazy. I’m just not you.”
• Daniel Arteaga [27:44]: “Make sure that what you’re creating is addressing an oh, shit moment for stakeholders, for the public.”
• Kevin Bice [28:50]: “You have to be obsessed with the problem you’re trying to solve.”
• Ben Walter [31:08]: “I would often bet on the right two co-founders with a good idea versus one co-founder with a great idea.”

Important Timestamps

• Opening context: The ER crisis for older adults (00:23–01:41)
• Personal stories, motivation, and defining the problem (02:00–04:54)
• Apogee's approach & early experiments (05:29–06:58)
• Tech + human model; pitching investors (07:23–08:52)
• Healthcare market economics/inelasticity (08:52–10:03)
• Pitching advice & fundraising journey (10:20–12:17)
• Proving the model in the hospital—early victories (13:27–16:16)
• ROI and economic case for Apogee (16:30–17:01)
• Onboarding and stakeholder management (17:01–18:26)
• Customer complexity & stakeholder strategy (20:15–22:11)
• Scaling: Deep market penetration and tech enablement (22:49–23:55)
• Co-Founder dynamic and leadership philosophy (24:40–26:24)
• Advice for aspiring founders (27:29–29:30)
• Discussion on the value of the co-founder model (30:00–32:57)

Closing Takeaways

• Apogee Care is a scalable, technology-enabled, compassion-driven service, tackling a deeply entrenched problem facing America's most vulnerable population in emergency care.
• Success stemmed from understanding the pain points of all stakeholders, deftly integrating tech with personalized service, and maintaining clarity of mission.
• Raising capital and getting hospital buy-in required direct “asks,” unrelenting persistence, and learning to navigate complex, multi-tiered customer environments.
• The founders’ complementary strengths were key, as was their obsession with the problem, not just a “cool” solution.
• Listeners are encouraged to focus on real stakeholder pain points, partner with those who challenge and complement them, and design for deep—rather than wide—impact.

For small business owners and entrepreneurs in healthcare or any complex sector, this episode offers practical wisdom on customer focus, pitching, co-founder relationships, and the critical role of mission-driven obsession.