Eyes in the Sky: Flying Lion

Summary

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The Unshakeables – "Eyes in the Sky: Flying Lion"

Podcast: The Unshakeables by iHeartPodcasts
Hosts: Ben Walter (CEO, Chase for Business, referred to as Stevie Barron in the transcript), Kathleen Griffith
Guest(s): Barry Brennan (Founder, Flying Lion), Steven Katz (Co-founder/Partner)
Release Date: August 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on Flying Lion, a Southern California-based company pioneering the use of drones in emergency response, particularly through a "drone as first responder" model for police and public safety agencies. Hosts Stevie Barron and Kathleen Griffith dive into the entrepreneurial journey of founder Barry Brennan and partner Steven Katz, unpacking the growth, challenges, innovations, and hard-won lessons of building a business at the cutting edge of technology and public service. While drones may seem niche, their story resonates with any small business owner navigating high-stake moments, growth pains, and evolving tech landscapes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Motivation

[00:26–05:05]

• Barry’s lifelong passion for law enforcement and background in logistics (FedEx, UPS, Toyota).
• Entrepreneurial spark ignited by an MBA pitch contest at USC, inspired by a friend’s drone demonstrations.
  • Quote – Barry Brennan [06:37]: “Man, the drone going around corners is going to save human lives, gonna save canines. It’s just a great tool. Drone is an inexpensive helicopter alternative for law enforcement.”
• Immediate validation: winning the contest, followed by outside interest in buying the idea.

2. Building the Business and Early Hurdles

[09:11–10:40]

• Initial partnership with Redondo Beach PD for beta testing.
• Creation of a custom, high-tech “stakeout van,” a significant personal investment (~$200,000) despite skepticism from others.
• Transition from proof-of-concept to operational reality; emphasis on rapid response times.

3. Education and Community Engagement

[11:14–13:07]

• Recognizing the need for formal police training, Barry introduces a drone curriculum at community college.
  • Attracts unexpected civilian interest (photographers, real estate, etc.), enriching the program and broadening its vision.
• Decision to co-teach, leading to the partnership with Steven Katz, whose background was in commercial drone applications.
  • Memorable moment – Steven Katz [13:14]: “Barry will describe us as the two old men in the Muppets... Our unique perspectives come in and make it a solid choice for either the students or, you know, the applications.”

4. Turning Point: Scaling Up with Chula Vista

[17:40–19:44]

• Flying Lion wins a pivotal "drone as first responder" contract with Chula Vista—their entry into substantial public safety service.
  • Quote – Barry Brennan [18:18]: “I remember...‘Congratulations, we awarded you this business. And oh, by the way, you were the lowest bidder.’ You never want to hear that as a business person...But we want you to help proliferate drone as first responder.”
• Company quickly triples in size to fulfill 7-day, 12-13 hour/day contracts—leading to serious staffing stress.
• Unexpected mass staff departures test their resilience; Barry and Steven personally fill in shifts, cementing their operational credibility but highlighting the need for managerial growth.

5. Adaptation, Growth, and Management

[20:34–21:07]

• Experience on the rooftops informs better pay structures, employee support, and more sustainable business practices.
  • Quote – Barry Brennan [20:47]: "Because we did it, we know what those folks are experiencing...So it helped us be better managers."
• Flying Lion expands from a handful of agencies to over 70, including major departments like Beverly Hills and Santa Monica.

6. Tech Adoption, Partnerships, and Industry Impact

[21:14–22:52]

• Navigating skepticism from traditional police units (e.g., helicopter pilots), but demonstrating drones’ complementary value through real-world operations.
  • Memorable moment – Barry Brennan [22:28]: Details a dramatic search-and-locate operation with police helicopters and drones coordinating in real time.
  • Quote – Barry Brennan [22:42]: “Yeah, that’s it. That’s the guy. And lo and behold, we were able to find the guy...it took those multi levels and helicopter plus drone to do that.”
• Vision: Become the “Delta Airlines of the drone industry,” offering comprehensive, scalable, customer-focused drone services.
  • Quote – Barry Brennan [23:05]: “I have dreams of being a very big company...We want to be like the Delta Airlines of the drone industry...But also, I never want to be so big that we lose contact with the customers and our employees."

7. Privacy, Security, and Future Trends

[23:31–25:53]

• Host Q&A on drone privacy concerns and regulatory climate.
  • Barry argues growing public acceptance of cameras/drones due to their investigative and deterrence value, but acknowledges need for careful, ethical deployment.
  • Quote – Barry Brennan [24:29]: “We want to have enough police officers to keep us safe, but we don’t want to have our own individual police officer that’s always bodyguarding us...I want to have that capability with the technology to have it be as least intrusive as possible.”
• Stevie and Kathleen expand discussion to broader privacy and AI trends for small businesses.
  • Quote – Stevie Barron [25:53]: “From the small business standpoint, it is critically important to ensure your consumers trust what you’re doing...how you market, that is critically important.”

8. Personal Commitment and Advice for Entrepreneurs

[28:20–29:07]

• Barry’s advice for aspiring business owners: Relentless commitment and passion sustain you through inevitable challenges and doubts.
  • Quote – Barry Brennan [28:29]: “You have to be committed...I always use the joke about Rudy the movie. He was so passionate that there was nothing that was ever going to stop him...It borders on insanity. But if you’re not committed...there’s more times where you think, like, why the F am I doing this?”
• Barry currently lives and works on the road in an all-electric RV outfitted for drone demos—embodying both nimble entrepreneurship and a commitment to “being out there” for business growth.
  • Quote – Barry Brennan [29:20]: “I’m trying to see if I can do both business and live in the same thing...parked right next to the east river...skyline is phenomenal...unique experience.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Innovation Origin — Barry Brennan [06:37]:

  “Man, the drone going around corners is going to save human lives, gonna save canines. It’s just a great tool..."

• Early Skepticism & Investment — Barry Brennan [10:21]:

  “I started getting into about a $200,000 investment to this...they’re like, you’re crazy to invest that big of money. But I always felt like I could see what needed to be done.”

• Complementary Partnership — Steven Katz [13:14]:

  “Barry will describe us as the two old men in the Muppets arguing up in the balcony...Our unique perspectives come in and make it a solid choice.”

• Winning Chula Vista — Barry Brennan [18:18]:

  “Congratulations, we awarded you this business...We want you to be that acolyte that’s going to go out and help proliferate drone as first responder.”

• Workforce Crisis — Barry Brennan [19:44]:

  “It’s funny, the new generation doesn’t have that two week notice part to it...We still need you to fulfill that.”

• Proving Themselves — Barry Brennan [20:03]:

  “We were able to prove we can continue to take care of business even if it has to be Steven and I up on the roof...which from a bigger business standpoint is dumb.”

• Multi-Platform Coordination — Barry Brennan [22:28]:

  “The pilot could see that drone peeking...He looks in the hole and he’s like, 'Hey, does your suspect have a blue shirt on?' I screamed as loud as I could, 'Yeah, that’s it. That’s the guy.'"

• Vision for Scale — Barry Brennan [23:05]:

  "I think we want to be like the Delta Airlines of the drone industry...We do a lot of different things...never want to be so big we lose the contact with customers and our employees."

• On Privacy — Barry Brennan [24:29]:

  “We want to have enough police officers to keep us safe, but we don’t want to have our own individual police officer...I want to have that capability with the technology to have it be as least intrusive as possible.”

• Advice to Entrepreneurs — Barry Brennan [28:29]:

  “You have to be committed...It borders on insanity. But if you’re not committed...there’s more times where you think, like, why the F am I doing this? And that’s your internal that keeps you going.”

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Important Timestamps

• Barry's origin story & business spark: [03:05–07:02]
• First contract & investment: [09:11–10:40]
• Building community college program, meeting Steven: [11:14–13:14]
• Securing Chula Vista contract, business inflection point: [17:40–19:44]
• Operational crisis — staff departures: [19:44–20:34]
• Multi-agency growth and LAPD interaction: [21:07–22:52]
• Tech, privacy, and trust discussion: [23:31–25:53]
• Entrepreneurship advice & RV journey: [28:20–30:10]

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Episode Tone & Final Takeaways

The episode is candid, practical, and optimistic—showcasing both grit and humility. Barry and Steven’s journey combines old-school hustle (doing rooftop shifts themselves) with innovative, scalable thinking and a sense of humor. The hosts connect the specifics of drones to universal lessons for small business owners: resilience, the willingness to adapt, investing in team and leadership, and an uncompromising commitment to your vision. The evolving landscape of tech, privacy, and public perception makes their advice timely for SMBs in any industry.

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Recommended Action:
Think about how emerging technologies could unlock new opportunities — and remember, surviving rough patches often forges the best solutions. Be ready to do every job yourself, but also build for a future where you—and your technology—scale responsibly.

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Transcript

[Kathleen]

Ruby.

[Stevie Barron]

We've heard about a lot of small businesses on the show. Some start off really small, then slowly grow. Others hit the ground running. Today's business Flying Line was the former a drone company based in Southern California. Founder Barry Brennan and his partner Steven Katz were mostly operating in what they called stealth mode.

[Barry Brennan]

It was the point where Stephen and I weren't making enough money on the little things we were doing to really have a salary out of it.

[Stevie Barron]

Then they won their first big contract. The city of Chula Vista wanted to hire them for a drone as first responder program.

[Barry Brennan]

That was a big, big thing for us. We needed it to survive.

[Stevie Barron]

They celebrated. Then reality dawned on them.

[Barry Brennan]

Holy crap. This is going to triple our size. From a staffing standpoint, it was seven days a week, 12 to 13 hours a day. And to manage that, do it properly.

[Stevie Barron]

And for the first year, they did do it properly.

[Barry Brennan]

We didn't have a call out. We had people that were dedicated to it, and then we had five people leave.

[Stevie Barron]

But the work still had to get done in emergency response. Coverage is essential. Stephen and Barry had to figure out how to fill those gaps, and fast. It could be a matter of life or death. Welcome to the Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. I'm Stevie Barron, CEO of Chase for Business. Small businesses are the backbone of our communities. Every day, I hear from owners who are not only fueling our economy, but creating jobs across the country. This show is for the people behind the scenes, the ones who take the leap, bet on themselves, and keep going, even when everything feels like it's on the line. And it's also a place to be honest about the challenges entrepreneurs face and what it really takes to grow a business. Access to capital, time, talent. But most of all, the right support. In each episode, we'll talk with real business owners and experts. Plus we'll share resources that may help along the way. One is JPMorgan Chase's American Dream initiative. Focus on expanding capital and coaching, supporting smart policy solutions and building services to help you run your business end to end. Our goal is to make it easier for more than 10 million small businesses to get ahead. Your stories matter not just to us, but to your customers, your employees, your families, and your community. So whether you're just starting out or trying to expand, we're glad you're here.

[Kathleen]

Stevie, welcome.

[Stevie Barron]

Thank you.

[Kathleen]

Welcome to the show. This is our first podcast episode together. You and I were chatting a little bit before this and you had shared that both of your parents were small business owners especially mom.

[Stevie Barron]

Yes.

[Kathleen]

So I'd love to start there so everyone else can have the benefit of like, this is in your blood.

[Stevie Barron]

Yeah. My mom decided to own and operate a home accessory store in Miami, where I'm from originally, and did that for a number of years, successfully sold that business and then went into interior design and was successful in that business and just retired a couple years ago.

[Kathleen]

I think you actually have a really interesting vantage point because you've seen that and now working with so many small business owners and at the branches, like you also get that side of it too and can bring that to bear.

[Stevie Barron]

I've been at JP Morgan Chase for 20 years and I just love the passion that small business owners have. I feel like every time I talk to a small business owner, I learn so much. I mean, the energy that they have to talk about their business, I just eat that all up and I love it.

[Kathleen]

I love that too. So what are you looking forward to most being in this chair?

[Stevie Barron]

Just learning. Just learning from these operators. They're entrepreneurs, they've all had challenges. Obviously the ones we're talking to have had success as well. And hopefully the listeners will know that they're not alone with the challenges that they face every day and that there's solutions and there's ways forward and hopefully we can help them along their journey.

[Kathleen]

What I love is all these businesses really seem to run the gamut. You've got small, mid sized, everything in between across so many different categories, but you've got this connective tissue where they're all united by this unshakable spirit. And today was such a great example of that. Because as I was looking at it, I'm thinking, well, drones, that's pretty niche, right? But as I was listening to Barry and his story, there's so much that's relevant for anyone who's listening.

[Stevie Barron]

Absolutely. The hard won lessons that come from from running a small business in this country are relevant for everyone. I think we can learn a lot from Barry and Steven. On today's episode, Flying lion from Redondo Beach, California. Barry, welcome to the Unshakeables. It's great to have you here.

[Barry Brennan]

Great to be here. Thank you for the opportunity.

[Stevie Barron]

Before we can understand the business, I think it's important to understand Barry. Barry's had a lifelong interest in law enforcement. And if you saw him, you'd see that he's got this aura of authority and rules about him. For 20 years, that energy called on him to serve for the Redondo Beach Reserve Force. While he worked in logistics, by day, he was a middleman of sorts for large companies.

[Barry Brennan]

FedEx, UPS, Toyota.

[Stevie Barron]

Barry wanted a promotion to move up to the C suite. His boss had some advice.

[Barry Brennan]

Why don't you get your advanced degree?

[Stevie Barron]

Barry enrolled at the University of Southern California to get his mba.

[Barry Brennan]

One of the modules in their program was entrepreneurialism. And so you have to, with your study group, create for a pitch contest, the idea of a business model and what we would do. I thought, let's do something around law enforcement, because then I can dial it in. I don't have to put too much effort and energy into it. And then I had a buddy who owned a drone, and he would do photography.

[Stevie Barron]

During a trip, Barry and his buddy were stopped at a hotel for the night.

[Barry Brennan]

He tells me, I got this new drone. You want to see it? So we went to the parking lot, and he flew it. And I'm like, this is incredible. Can you fly down a hallway? He was like, yeah, no problem. And also in the hotel, he's zipping through the hallway. And at that same time, there was a K9 in Anaheim that had been shot.

[Stevie Barron]

K9 officers are both beloved and expensive.

[Barry Brennan]

They're about $80,000 and probably even more now.

[Stevie Barron]

And what year are we talking about here?

[Barry Brennan]

So this is about 2012, 2013. Okay.

[Stevie Barron]

Seeing this drone zipping down hotel hallways gives Barry an idea.

[Barry Brennan]

Man, the drone going around corners is going to save human lives, going to save canines. It's just a great tool. Drone is an inexpensive helicopter alternative for law enforcement.

[Stevie Barron]

Barry and his classmates showed up to the pitch contest with their drone idea,

[Barry Brennan]

and then we won the pitch contest. And at that point, I was like, wow, maybe there's some validity to this business idea.

[Stevie Barron]

The thought was confirmed almost immediately.

[Barry Brennan]

Somebody approached me and said, hey, that's such a great idea. I want to buy it if you're not going to do anything with it. And I was like, I should probably see if there's some value here.

[Stevie Barron]

Barry took the idea to his police chief in Redondo beach. And only 10 minutes away in Torrance, California, someone else was getting big ideas about drones.

[Steven Katz]

I'm Stephen Katz, founder of Skyladder Drones.

[Stevie Barron]

While Barry was getting his mba, Stephen was transitioning out of a software company he helped build.

[Steven Katz]

I was employee number three when they got acquired and made sense for me to go do something different.

[Stevie Barron]

With his new free time, Stephen was looking for a new hobby. He and his wife were out at a photography studio near his old office when something caught his eye.

[Steven Katz]

Honey, look at These cool pictures this photographer took, he took it with this white drone thing. So I was starting to play with drones.

[Stevie Barron]

His wife had another name for playing with drones.

[Steven Katz]

She calls it my midlife crisis. She's just glad it wasn't a fast car. Drones are a lot more cool.

[Stevie Barron]

He didn't stay a hobbyist for long.

[Steven Katz]

This could do real work. This has business opportunity.

[Stevie Barron]

Steven went to trade shows trying to network in the industry, which back then was less industry and more folding chairs in hotel ballrooms.

[Steven Katz]

I was sitting at one of the larger ones trying to figure out what I wanted to do with the drone. I knew I wanted drones in business, but where, what niche?

[Stevie Barron]

He settled on the business of, quote, drones doing work, especially work that was particularly dangerous to people doing it.

[Steven Katz]

Photos, inspections. We quickly moved into something called infrared to do inspections of solar panels and other structures. Most dirty and dangerous jobs happen on ladders. And if we can avoid people on a ladder, people don't fall off ladders.

[Stevie Barron]

Stephen called the company Skyladder after this idea. It grew slowly.

[Steven Katz]

It definitely covered my personal expenses or contributed to my wife covering my expenses, really.

[Stevie Barron]

While Steven explored commercial drone usage, Barry was finally ready to come out of stealth mode on his big idea.

[Barry Brennan]

Didn't even tell my chief that I was doing my MBA program, but I went to him and I said, hey, what do you think about this technology? Borrowed. My buddy's drone. Showed him, and he's like, this is the future of law enforcement. And he said, I don't know what it is, what we're going to do with it, but it's going to be what police are doing going forward. It became a winner. And so Redondo beach was my first contracted city.

[Stevie Barron]

The beach city was quick to jump on board because residents don't like helicopters.

[Barry Brennan]

They'll call and complain about a helicopter. And so it's funny, there'll be an incident of somebody jumping over fences and backyards. We'll get seven calls that'll tell us, hey, there's a bad guy in my backyard. But we'll get like 27 calls of people saying, hey, I can't hear Dances with the Stars because of the helicopter. Helicopter.

[Stevie Barron]

Barry and his chief moved into an 18 month beta testing period during which he built what can only be described as a classic stakeout van, like the ones you see on TV shows and movies.

[Barry Brennan]

A large sprinter van you can stand up and walk in. 65 inch TV had an area for the technicians to work on the drones had an area in the back for the pilots to fly the drones. And all that information from the flights is coming to a large screen tv, so the incident commander can make tactical decisions.

[Stevie Barron]

And this thing wasn't cheap.

[Barry Brennan]

I started getting into about a $200,000 investment to this. And I remember talking to a couple of people from my MBA program, getting some guidance and some people associated with that. They're like, you're crazy to invest that big of money. But I always felt like I could see what needed to be done, and so I just needed to be able to show this.

[Stevie Barron]

And with the van, he could show off what the drones could do. Barry and his chief started deploying the drones in response to calls, getting the drone on site first to scope things out.

[Barry Brennan]

We were working on the domino's principle of getting there in 30 minutes or

[Stevie Barron]

less, which is great for pizza, but in an emergency, 30 minutes May as well be days. Barry had to make his response times faster.

[Barry Brennan]

Maybe if we had drones in trunks. We jokingly referred to them as trunk drones. And then we'd have to teach police officers how to do this. So we then went from being the service provider to now, hey, can we train cops?

[Stevie Barron]

He knew just the place to do it.

[Barry Brennan]

I came through the community college route. I thought, this is a perfect thing for community colleges, so why don't we teach at the community college level?

[Stevie Barron]

Barry made a curriculum and took it to the school. He was able to create it as an adult education course and was surprised when civilians also signed up.

[Barry Brennan]

I realized training civilians is a little bit different than cops. I found that there was a lot more creative elements of people coming from different things. So there were photographers, there were real estate people. There were all these different professions that were coming in at the community college level. So it really made my training more robust. And my belief is that both as an instructor and as students, to have one voice go for this was a three hour course. I was like, that's just death. So I'm like, I need to co teach.

[Stevie Barron]

And this is where Barry and Steven's stories meet. They had a mutual friend who found empty spaces for retailers.

[Steven Katz]

This guy was a matchmaker.

[Stevie Barron]

And just so happened to think that Barry and Steven should be matched. Steven invited Barry to come see what Skyladder was up to.

[Steven Katz]

I'm like, hey, come help me do some mapping. Where you go do a very specific pattern. And it creates these 3D models, kind of like Google Earth.

[Stevie Barron]

It's helpful for construction and engineering companies. And Barry wasn't interested at all.

[Steven Katz]

He's like, no, that's like watching paint dry.

[Stevie Barron]

So Barry tried to get Stephen to step into his world.

[Steven Katz]

And then he says to me, hey, why don't you come help me go find bad guys? Which did not appeal to me at all.

[Stevie Barron]

Too hard no's. But when Barry brought up the community college course, Stephen was a hard yes to that one.

[Steven Katz]

You're teaching a course? My mom's a teacher. I'd love to give back.

[Stevie Barron]

So they co taught the class. The class involved a lot of testing and test flights, which gave Barry and Steven a lot of time to just hang out.

[Barry Brennan]

The excitement and the energy and the synergy between us was phenomenal. And we came at it from two opposite perspectives.

[Steven Katz]

So we were sitting outside and he's like, I have this idea of this drone automatically taking off when we get a call for service.

[Stevie Barron]

Barry pitched Steven the idea and Steven wasn't sure at first.

[Steven Katz]

We're so different. Barry will describe us as the two old men and the Muppets arguing up in the balcony.

[Barry Brennan]

You know, the Muppets, the two guys that sit in the balcony that are just relentlessly rude to each other. That's us. But the reality of it is is our unique perspectives come in and make it a solid choice for either the students or, you know, the applications that we do this for.

[Stevie Barron]

Barry's idea reminded Steven of an eco tourism company using drones to see the world.

[Steven Katz]

You could fly in Paris and tour the Eiffel Tower with a drone. Great. But more importantly, it was a software that allowed remote flying.

[Stevie Barron]

A software that solved a key issue for Barry's idea.

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Stevie Barron]

stop here for a second before we continue. I think I know what a lot of our listeners are thinking.

[Kathleen]

How is this going to be relevant? But as I was listening to Barry and his story, there's so much that's relevant for anyone who's listening to think about drone applications. I think we're to see some more applications just in terms of security and patrol. We're certainly seeing them in wedding videos, right? Those aerial drone shots and real estate videos. People who want to make a property flex bigger. But how should regular small business owners be thinking about potentially experimenting with the technology now? Do you think it's more a wait and see or it's something that makes sense to kind of play around with?

[Stevie Barron]

Yeah, I mean it depends on the business, but whether it's content creation. You talked a little bit about real estate. I haven't been to a wedding or even a large function where there hasn't been a drone taking pictures or being.

[Kathleen]

You've been going to better weddings than I have.

[Stevie Barron]

In that case, I never turned down a wedding. By the way, for some of our folks that are in farming, obviously crop and asset monitoring is critically important over time whether or not delivery can really become more drone focused and help with the last mile shipping. So I think we're in the early innings of drones. Obviously flying line was very early, but I think there's a lot more to unlock in the future. And so for any of the small businesses out there, it's just something to think about, be creative about and hopefully there'll be a use case coming to you soon.

[Kathleen]

Yeah, I just heard something recently. You know, Uber and Postmates and all those guys have been experimenting with these awkward drones that are like dropping your food on your lawn and taking off. But the price point right now is so cost prohibitive because it's $30 per drop. But the goal is to get it down to close to a $7 price point, which would mean then those in the audience who have food delivery, some of these more service based businesses, it's potentially something they could employ, which I think will be really interesting to see where delivery goes. That could really be a big unlock. But also just having the ability to have these drones now automated, the current requirements are that everything is within eyeshot, so that's part of what's creating this blockade. But if we're able to get to a point where we can again have autonomous remote, as Barry was talking about that's going to really unlock the space because right now you basically have to have eyes on what you're dropping.

[Stevie Barron]

Yeah, I mean it's early days. And on your point on the food delivery, if it comes fast, consumers will adopt. You don't care if your food's hot. I think you'll be happy. But you're absolutely right. There's still a lot of red tape and regulation both in the local city state. So there's work to be done. But I think we're very early days. Lets get back to Barry and Steven. Flying lion was ready to leave stealth and see if they could be service providers at scale. His opportunity came soon after the city of Chula Vista was looking for a drone as first responder provider. He and Steven went to pitch together and we bid.

[Steven Katz]

We won the business.

[Barry Brennan]

I remember them hiring us and one of the phrases that hurt was congratulations, we awarded you this business. And oh, by the way, you were the lowest bidder. You know, you never want to hear that as a business person. But the second thing was saying, hey, we're cops. We know that everybody's going to be interested in this technology but we can't help train and teach everybody. So we want you to be that acolyte that's going to go out and help proliferate Drone as first responder.

[Stevie Barron]

Barry didn't just do that well for his students. He sold drones. So well he finally got Steven on

[Steven Katz]

board, I call it. He sucked me into law enforcement. That's what happens with consultants and stuff. But he was paying for my time was the relationship.

[Stevie Barron]

The relationship is a little bit of an understatement. After that bid, Flying lion and Skyladder weren't just working together. They were the same business. As for who does what day to day.

[Steven Katz]

I do everything and Barry basically sleeps all day. It's actually organically. So just like we weren't looking for partners, the roles and responsibility just kind of gelled.

[Stevie Barron]

Once they gelled, things took off. The Chula Vista contract brought in Beverly Hills and Santa Monica commercial uses primarily security. Followed things like golf tournaments and music festival security and crowd control. They hired and trained quickly tripling their staff in a short time. And for the first year they got lucky until they didn't. And then five people left all at once.

[Barry Brennan]

It's funny, the new generation doesn't have that two week notice part to it. So basically they think like, well I decided I'm not going to want to work tomorrow so I'm not coming in and we still need you to fulfill that.

[Stevie Barron]

And as a first responder, there are no days off. The rooftops still need pilots whether flying line had them or not. You know what happened next. Barry and Steven were up on the

[Barry Brennan]

roof, sitting up on a rooftop, waiting for that call for service. I'm conducting emails and follow ups and phone calls. And it was bizarre for about six weeks of how we had to cover those rooftops and, you know, 10 hour days on a roof in southern California in the summer's rough, you generally say you're going to roll up your sleeves and do it. But we were able to prove that we can continue to take care of business, even if it has to be Steven and I up on the roof, which from a bigger business standpoint is dumb.

[Stevie Barron]

Dumb, but survivable. And survival was just enough to teach them what they needed to to change and build an actual business, not just get paid to fly drones. They prioritized their employee needs and revamped their pay structure.

[Barry Brennan]

It was a good learning experience for us to really know what type of people were needing, what the expectations were, and then also get that balance of because we did it, we know what those folks are experiencing on a daily basis. So it helped us be better managers.

[Stevie Barron]

Flying line has grown significantly over the last few years. One rooftop has become many rooftops all over the country.

[Barry Brennan]

When we first started, it was less than a dozen police and fire customers that we were working with. Now we're up to 70 agencies.

[Stevie Barron]

The smaller towns were simple. The big agencies were a totally different story. Take the Los Angeles police department.

[Barry Brennan]

Helicopter pilots still think we're going to take their jobs away. And I'm like, there's not one helicopter that's been retired so they can get drones. We're adding drones to do stuff that you guys won't do.

[Stevie Barron]

The message really got across when the LAPD had the chance to see flying lion in action. There was an officer involved shooting at the Redondo beach pier.

[Barry Brennan]

And I'm the drone operator. I just happen to be pilot that day. I'm flying it. I'm worried that somebody from my team is hurt. Want to catch the bad guy. Can't find him. It's 40 minutes of me searching and not finding anything.

[Stevie Barron]

By that time, LAPD was able to respond. They sent over the helicopters. Barry, by his own admission, got territorial.

[Barry Brennan]

I'm doing the typical cop thing of like, hey, it's my jurisdiction. It's my people. Like, screw you. Normally I would have asked permission. This time I just said, hey, I'm going to be below 250 as we're talking on the radio to the inbound helicopter pilot. And he's like, fine, I'll be over 500. Let me know if you need to come up at all. And I'm like, perfect.

[Stevie Barron]

That's when Barry caught a heat source in a nearby hiding spot. The tiny drone flew over with a pen like camera. The helicopter followed.

[Barry Brennan]

The pilot could see that drone peeking. So he's able to turn on his night sun, which is 5 million candle watt power. And so now he's beaming and he looks in the hole and he's like, hey, does your suspect have a blue shirt on? I screamed as loud as I could.

[Commercial Narrator]

Yeah, that's it.

[Barry Brennan]

That's the guy. And lo and behold, we were able to find the guy. But it took those multi levels and helicopter plus drone to do that.

[Stevie Barron]

The mission was successful, but more importantly, he proved that the larger agencies could trust them. As Flying lion continues to grow with larger partners and smaller departments alike, Barry has a clear vision of what he hopes Flying Line will become.

[Barry Brennan]

I have dreams of being a very big company. So when you ask what's Flying Line about, I'd be like, I think we want to be like the Delta Airlines of the drone industry. So we're everywhere. We do it cost effectively, good customer service. We do a lot of different things. And so there's no super specialty that we do other than your drone program. What do you want it to do? So there is that part of it. But also it's one of those things of I never want to be so big that we lose the contact with the customers and our employees.

[Stevie Barron]

Shifting gears a little bit. Obviously privacy is so critical to everybody. Is there concern out there regarding security and privacy with drones?

[Barry Brennan]

There's always the concern of using it for the wrong reason. However, I think more people have gotten used to, there's just stop site cameras, there's road cameras, there's ring cameras, there's we're constantly being filmed. And so that idea of there's a better value of having that because if something does happen, so one side of it you look at it is you want to be able to go back and research what happened investigatoria. So you want to have that capabilities secondarily, people, if they know there's cameras and stuff, they might be less likely to do something stupid knowing that they're going to get caught.

[Stevie Barron]

So the deterrence is a real feature.

[Barry Brennan]

It is. And I think that's that balance of we want to have enough police officers to keep us safe, but we don't want to have our own individual police officer that's always bodyguarding us. Right. That's that balance of. But I want to have that capability with the technology to have it be as least intrusive as possible.

[Stevie Barron]

Where's the company today? Obviously, you've had some significant growth. You continue to invest, but just in layman's terms. How are you doing?

[Barry Brennan]

Doing well. About 75% increase every year.

[Stevie Barron]

I'd say that's better than. Well, well.

[Barry Brennan]

But it's usually. So this is our experience. So, I mean, I'd like to be 100, 150. We're at that inflection point of we've got about a little under 100 employees. Our revenue's at a level that we can manage internally. But now if we can either bootstrap and double down, I think we can scale a little bit larger.

[Stevie Barron]

What a story. Barry's really got his finger on what's coming next. I want to talk about privacy a little bit more because I know that's a major topic of conversation right now.

[Kathleen]

I'd seen a recent study that when it comes to privacy, it is going to be the second greatest category of investment behind AI. So it's being taken really, really seriously. Everyone is collecting customer data one way or the other. It feels like everyone wants more information than our mamas right now, and I'm reluctant to give it over. So how do you talk to your clients just about ensuring trust, making their customers feel like it's a safe, reliable, secure bet, working with them? I'd imagine Chase is held to high standards or expectations with privacy and trust.

[Stevie Barron]

Yeah. And we take it incredibly seriously.

[Kathleen]

Yeah.

[Stevie Barron]

We make significant investments. Just given the size and scale of our businesses, the trust that our small businesses, our consumers, have with us, we don't take that lightly. We invest heavily. One of the areas that I'm particularly focused on is how do we educate our small business owners and our consumers, for that matter, on how they're accessing the information and when and is it okay to give out information or not, particularly within an AI. You talked about privacy being number two on AI. I think there's a strong link between AI and privacy. Obviously, we love AI and there's opportunities to optimize business and get more efficient. How is that information being used? Is your information being used to train these models? Are you aware of that or not? What information are you giving these models? So I think there's a big interconnection at play here that we need to better educate our small businesses and consumers on that. But from the small business standpoint, stating the obvious, that it is critically important to ensure that your consumers trust what you're doing and the investments that you make in that and how you talk about that and how you market, that is critically important. So it was interesting with Barry, obviously a different flavor of trust. It's not really cyber, it's more the video component and feeling like you're being watched. Have you given access to that? Do you feel like that's in violation of your privacy? And clearly that's something he's thinking about. But it's an area that we all should be focusing on. And for anyone listening, I would just say take a step back and think about, first of all, from a first party perspective, how are you as a small business owner, where are you giving your information and are you comfortable that it is being stored and being used the right way? That's first and foremost. And then as a business owner, when you have consumers that are giving you information, how are you ensuring and safeguarding that information? We should all know the answers to those questions and it's great to take a step back and ensure that you do.

[Kathleen]

I love that idea of almost doing a trust gap audit to see where might you be falling short, what do you need to shore up and then communicating that to your customers too, just so that they feel comfortable working with you.

[Stevie Barron]

I think that's right. Well, Kathleen, it's been a great first episode and I've enjoyed hearing Barry's story with you. Thank you for all your help.

[Barry Brennan]

I love this.

[Kathleen]

I'm so excited to go on this journey with you this season and see small businesses through your eyes. I know I'm going to learn a lot. So excited to see what they have in store for us next.

[Stevie Barron]

Likewise. Thank you. So, Barry, what advice would you give others looking to start a small business or join someone in a small business?

[Barry Brennan]

You have to be committed. You have to see something that other people don't get because your job is to convey what that uniqueness is of why they should go with you or why they should go with this technology. And I always use the joke about Rudy the movie. He was so passionate that there was nothing that was ever going to stop him to do this. And it borders on the level of insanity. But the reality of it is you're going to do a small business and you want it to do something that's unique. You have to be so passionate about it that you carry that under all cost. There's little challenges every way, but if you're not committed to that. Let me tell you, there's more times where you think of, like, why the F am I doing this? And that's your internal that keeps you going.

[Stevie Barron]

Well, just speaking with you today, I can obviously feel the passion, the grit, and all the wonderful things you're doing. So, Barry, last question. You live in California?

[Barry Brennan]

I do.

[Stevie Barron]

We're here recording in New York.

[Steven Katz]

Yes.

[Stevie Barron]

How did you get here?

[Barry Brennan]

Well, I am trying to change my lifestyle, so I've downsized, and so now I'm living in an rv. And the idea is that I'm going to travel around and grow our business by being out there to show people what we do. So the outfit that I have is. It's a Silverado ev.

[Stevie Barron]

Okay.

[Barry Brennan]

On the back of it is a dock, drone dock, so I can show those customers those things that I need. And then I have. It's a pebble flow, an RV that's all electric. Now, the charging thing gets a little scary when I get to more remote locations, but the reality of it is is that I'm trying to see if I can do both business and live in the same thing. The unique thing about this is we're in New York City, so I thought I would have to be up in, like, Herriman park or something. 30, 40, 50 miles away. The reality of it is that I'm parked right next to the east river because there's an RV park that's here and the skyline is phenomenal. It's been a unique experience to do that.

[Stevie Barron]

Incredible. You're getting miles in, huh?

[Barry Brennan]

Yeah, definitely miles in.

[Stevie Barron]

That's amazing. Well, Barry, thank you so much for the time. I love what Flying Line's doing. Great advice today for all of our small business listeners out there today, and thank you.

[Barry Brennan]

Well, no, thank you for the opportunity. I really appreciate this. Thank you.

[Stevie Barron]

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Unshakeables. Please subscribe to the show so you don't miss any anything we have coming up. We'll be back in October with some new episodes. I'm Stevie Barron, and this is the Unshakables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. We'll see you back here soon.