Inspiring Creativity & Community: CultureCon

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

Inspiring Creativity & Community: CultureCon

The Unshakeables — iHeartPodcasts / Chase for Business
Host: Ben Walter
Guest: Imani Ellis (Founder of CultureCon & The Creative Collective)
Co-host: Kathleen Griffith
Release Date: October 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Unshakeables, host Ben Walter and co-host Kathleen Griffith delve into the extraordinary journey of Imani Ellis, the founder of CultureCon and The Creative Collective. The conversation explores how Imani transformed a small, personal gathering into a nationally recognized and culturally resonant community conference for Black and Brown creatives. The discussion centers on the challenges of scaling an idea into a thriving business, the central role of community, the realities of entrepreneurial burnout, and how authentic connection and self-renewal fuel true innovation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Corporate Crisis Publicist to Culture Creator

• Imani’s Career Origins:

  • Loved her job as a crisis publicist but felt the absence of real community in New York.
  • Started an intimate taco night with friends—each friend brought another, creating a safe, non-work-focused space.
  • The spark: "What are you working on? And it can't be work."
    • Imani Ellis (05:14): “And so I thought, I'm just going to curate what I do not see... I made everyone tacos. And so it was a lot like matchmaking… The rule was they each had to bring one person they could vouch for... So I have one question for you. And it's, what are you working on? And it can't be work.”

• Naming and Scaling Up:

  • "Creative Collective" was the first name—meant as a joke, but stuck.
  • Early events were run by friends, unpaid, purely for connection and joy.

2. The Risk and Reality of Scaling

• First Big Venue—A Make-or-Break Moment:
  • Booked a massive, beautiful greenhouse as the next venue—only to realize it lacked bathrooms, air conditioning, and basic amenities, with no budget left and no refund policy.
    • Imani Ellis (11:20): “She [friend] goes, you didn’t take anyone who does production with you there? And I’m like, nope. How hard can it be?... She’s like, where are the bathrooms?”
    • Imani Ellis (01:01 & 12:21): “I was so scared. I was so stressed because I immediately thought, I’ve gone too big… I was in Union Square and I cried and I really thought, oh this is where your ambition has met your delusion.”
  • The solution: cold-call sponsors and push through—sold out and secured brand/celebrity involvement.

3. Building Culture—Not Just Tapping Into It

• What Makes CultureCon Unique:

  • Not another talking-heads conference; incorporates workshops, brand activations, creative experiences—"Disney World for creatives."
    • Imani Ellis (03:21): “We are expecting 10,000 creatives from around the world to pop up. It’s like Disney World, but for creatives."

• Community as the DNA:

  • Launched for and by Black and Brown creatives; business and event are grounded in the lived reality and needs of this community.

• Perspectives on Cultural Branding:

  • Kathleen Griffith distinguishes between brands born from culture, those that leverage culture, and (as Ben adds) those that create culture.
    • Ben Walter (14:21): “I think there are brands that grow out of culture… and then there are brands that create culture. Now, those are rare.”
  • CultureCon amplifies an existing but underserved need—creating a touchstone for creative community.

4. Navigating Growth, Burnout, and Balance

• Double-Life as Corporate Exec & Founder:

  • For six years, Imani ran CultureCon alongside her full-time job at Bravo.
    • Imani Ellis (18:18): “For those six years, I was living two worlds... I would work at Bravo from 8am until 7pm... and work on CultureCon from like, you know, 6 to 7.”
  • Only left her corporate job when timing and financial readiness aligned.

• Hitting Breaking Point and Inventing the Creative Residency:

  • Burned out after back-to-back, sold-out events; inspired by James Baldwin’s Paris retreat.
  • Created a ‘creative residency’—a self-designed sabbatical focused on "play, stillness, and action."
    • Imani Ellis (20:52): “I know I kind of invented it, actually... The goal was not that the output would be some work of art. I would be the work of art."
  • Returned recharged, reshaping her business mindset and self-care priorities.

• Healthy Obsession vs. Sustainable Rhythm:

  • Entrepreneurs need passion bordering on obsession—but must learn when to move from hustle to sustainability.
    • Imani Ellis (23:05): “It’s not that it’s not hard, but you should have different kinds of problems, I think, because we have to return to the natural order, which is rhythm… At a certain point, it is diminishing returns.”

5. The Transformative Power of Travel and Curiosity

• Travel as Inspiration:
  • Both personal and professional travel fuel innovation; observing how business works in other cultures sparks new ideas.
    • Ben Walter (27:09): "When I travel to new countries, whether it's Asia or Europe or doesn't matter where, I'm always paying attention to how people are transacting business... I get lots of ideas from that."
  • Imani designs creative residencies for others to rest, reset, and restore creative energy—accessible anywhere, not just in Paris.
    • Imani Ellis (30:05): "You can also do creative residency in New York City… It’s just about reframing your approach to your journey."

6. Innovation Through Community, Play, and Structured Serendipity

• Events Inspired by Social Life:

  • A London house party’s structured/unstructured mix inspired CultureCon’s programming (e.g., four-minute pitch contest, community feedback rounds).
    • Imani Ellis (31:42): “What if we, in addition to having a formal panel, had a little bit more unstructured things?... Four-minute Pitch contest…”

• Personal Joy as a Business Principle:

  • Playtime is essential—some experiences are just for joy, not all must be monetizable.

7. The Future: New Summits and Ever-Evolving Vision

• Expanding Offerings:

  • Launching ‘summits’ at CultureCon: verticals such as sports, AI, founder tracks, job fair, and market for small businesses; over 30 associated events citywide.
    • Imani Ellis (32:58): “We’re launching more summits... sports summit... AI summit, founder summit... business school for the entrepreneur and the creative...”

• On Five-Year Goals:

  • Imani resists rigid long-term roadmaps, preferring to surpass current goals, then set new ones.
    • Imani Ellis (33:57): “I don’t do the five-year thing. I used to… I needed that in my teens and twenties... I have surpassed my goals.”

8. Advice to Aspiring Entrepreneurs

• Imani Ellis (34:29): “Keep your eyes on your own paper. Focus on the art that you’re creating and get advice. But don’t compare your art to someone else’s art. They might have started earlier, they might have more resources, but it’s not over till it’s over.”

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Vision and Fear
  • "Ready is not a feeling, it's a decision, right?"
    —Imani Ellis (09:14)
• On Courage
  • "Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is doing what you need to do despite being afraid."
    —Ben Walter, paraphrasing (09:14)
• On Authenticity and Branding
  • “The number one thing you can do in your career and your life is to be authentic. Because people can smell BS a mile away.”
    —Ben Walter (15:33)
• On Obsession and Entrepreneurship
  • "You need a borderline level of obsession, and you need to care. If you don't care, literally no one else will care. But I do think there also comes a season where you can also see, am I sustaining?"
    —Imani Ellis (22:27)
• On Burnout and Recovery
  • “I really did that travel experience for myself to come back to my most abundant and creative self. But what I found is that people that followed wanted that itinerary as well.”
    —Imani Ellis (29:29)
• On Comparison
  • “Keep your eyes on your own paper. Focus on the art that you're creating and get advice. But don't compare your art to someone else's art.”
    —Imani Ellis (34:29)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:08] The "warehouse crisis" story—booking too big, no budget, no refund
• [03:21] How CultureCon "reimagines conference space" for creatives
• [05:14] The first Creative Collective meetup—the taco night and its rules
• [09:30] Learning to work through fear and the meaning of courage
• [12:21] The transformational sponsor push—turning a near-disaster into breakthrough
• [18:18] Six years balancing corporate leadership and scaling CultureCon
• [20:52] Invention of the creative residency: Paris odyssey and curriculum
• [22:27-23:05] Healthy obsession versus self-sabotaging hustle
• [30:05] "Residency" as a way of living anywhere; not about place, but about mindset
• [31:42] Bringing social inspiration into CultureCon programming
• [32:58] New verticals and event evolutions at CultureCon
• [34:29] Imani's enduring advice to entrepreneurs

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Tone & Language

The episode is candid and warm, blending entrepreneurial real-talk with a sense of vision and possibility. Imani Ellis’s storytelling is reflective, authentic, and often humorous—grounding big ideas in personal anecdotes and practical lessons. Both Ben Walter and Kathleen Griffith weigh in with strategic and cultural insights, while always centering Imani’s journey and the themes of community, resilience, and innovation.

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Memorable Moments

• The solo warehouse tour and "ambition meets delusion" meltdown.
• Booking a venue without bathrooms or AC—then flipping that crisis into a sold-out event through sheer grit.
• Inventing a "creative residency" for herself, then scaling it for others.
• Reframing traditional networking—bringing house party energy and structured play into a professional conference.
• Refusing to compare herself to other founders—and urging listeners to "keep your eyes on your own paper."

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Final Advice

• Build with authenticity and intention; don't force yourself into cultural moments that don't fit.
• Balance obsession with sustainability—rest and creative renewal are business essentials.
• Let play and curiosity drive innovation, both at home and abroad.
• Success is a series of seasons—embrace the rhythm, not just the grind.

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For anyone navigating the journey from passion project to lasting impact—especially those building creative or community-centered businesses—this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[Ben Walter]

Imani Ellis was on top. As a young network executive, she had started a community of creative professionals on the side. Over the next few years, that community had grown into an in person conference, attracting thousands of attendees and celebrities like Spike Lee and Tracee Ellis Ross. As her conference CultureCon grew, she ran into a common, growing pain. She needed to find a larger venue for that year's event.

[Imani Ellis]

In the spirit of ambition, I decide that I'm going to go on a solo quest.

[Ben Walter]

She found a giant warehouse in Brooklyn that felt like a greenhouse. The lighting and raw space were perfect.

[Imani Ellis]

I could see visions.

[Ben Walter]

She booked it that night, but the next day she had a horrible realization. There were no bathrooms, there was no air conditioning. And most of all, to actually outfit the space for a conference as they needed to do it, there was no budget.

[Imani Ellis]

I was so scared. I was so stressed because I immediately thought, I've gone too big. I can't cover the cost for this venue and all the things that this venue does not have. And then to make everything worse. Yeah, no, there is no refund. I remember exactly where I was because I was in Union Square and I cried and I really thought I oh, this is where your ambition has met your delusion.

[Ben Walter]

Welcome back to the Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business. On the Unshakeables, we're sharing the daring moments of small business owners facing their crisis points and telling the stories of how they got through it. And joining me again is Kathleen Griffith. Kathleen, what's up? It's so nice to see you again. It's been a while.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Glad to be back with you. I just caught some of those pictures on the bus tour. You guys look like you're the Beatles.

[Ben Walter]

We're not the Beatles. But I'll tell you, it is a lot of fun to get out there. In case you're wondering, Kathleen is talking about the bus tour we do every year at JPMorgan Chase. It's a lot of fun and in fact, it's one of my favorite things to do. Every year we did a swing through the south. This year we get out there and we spend time with clients and staff and local leaders. And it's just a great chance to spend an entire week close to the people who drive our business. I love doing it.

[Kathleen Griffith]

It feels like live events are coming back too. I've been on tour Multi City with you guys for the Chase experiences. It's been great to see those packed to the gills with people. So it's nice. We're back out in the world again.

[Imani Ellis]

Feels good.

[Ben Walter]

Yeah. It's taken a while, but it feels like it's full on again. People want to engage. They want experiences.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Yeah.

[Ben Walter]

Yeah. And, you know, for a while, that was sort of a reaction to Covid, but now I think it's a reaction to spending your whole life tethered to a phone. I think people crave human connection.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Absolutely.

[Ben Walter]

And our guest today is the perfect person to speak about that. On today's episode, the Creative Collective and CultureCon from New York City, Atlanta, Georgia, and anywhere Imani is going next. Imani, great to have you here.

[Imani Ellis]

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[Ben Walter]

When we sat down with Imani for this interview, she was deep in preparation for CultureCon 2025. I heard your biggest event of the year is, like, weeks away. Right.

[Imani Ellis]

We're very close. We're very busy. CultureCon is coming. We are expecting 10,000 creatives from around the world to pop up. It's like Disney World, but for creatives.

[Ben Walter]

And when you say pop up, do you mean show up?

[Imani Ellis]

Yes, yes. Show up, pop up, walk up. It's gonna be exciting. I think one of the things that CultureCon has become known for is reimagining what the conference space looks like. So, traditionally, it's a lot of people talking at you. But at CultureCon, we have workshops, we have Activ. We have over 40 different brands that are building everything from haunted houses to music studios. And so it's just a really exciting weekend for creative people to meet each other and build community.

[Ben Walter]

Cool. That sounds like a lot of fun. You know, you're a little bit famous now, right? You've been in Time and People and Forbes and all these cool publications. But let's go back to your slightly more humble beginnings, right? What inspired you to make this happen? What was the itch?

[Imani Ellis]

I was working as a crisis publicist, and I wanted to stay in corporate actually forever. I really, really loved getting paid every. And I loved my job. And I realized, though, that I was missing community, which I thought was a little ironic to kind of live in New York City but not have community. I couldn't really find a place where you could actually hear someone else speak, where you could actually talk. And when I did find those events, it always was, what do you do? Where do you live? What do you do? Where do you live? And so I thought, I'm just going to curate what I do not see. I'm going to invite some friends over. I Made everyone tacos. And so it was a lot like matchmaking because it was 10 of my closest friends. And then the rule was they each had to bring one person that they could vouch for because I still lived there. And so it was 20 people total. And again, it was one of those things where we all sat around and everyone's like, so, like, what are we doing? I said, hey, guys, welcome. So I have one question for you. And it's, what are you working on? And it can't be work. And people from New York were so what do you mean?

[Ben Walter]

Like, I'm working on work. What are you working on?

[Imani Ellis]

I'm working on getting promoted. I'm like, that's still work. And you could just see everyone being like, wait. And we were there from 7pm till about midnight. And the feeling was this really was a space where complete strangers, a lot of them were like, spilling their guts. In my 500 square foot apartment in Harlem, I didn't even think I was gonna do it again.

[Ben Walter]

So why did you call it the Creative Collective?

[Imani Ellis]

Isn't that the irony? I'm like, that's the most uncreative name ever. It just came out of my mouth. My friend Michael, as he was leaving the first one, said, what is this? And I'm like a collective of creatives. And I was joking. But it wasn't until they started texting me, being like, so when is the next Creative Collective? That was when I was like, oh, we're going to do it again. And it. It felt like my life was balanced. It felt like I finally had work and play. I kept doing it and filling up my days with it until a little bit of an obsession started. And once I got glimpses of the dream, I couldn't see, stop, we're going to do another one. We're going to do another one. And after we kind of did that for maybe six months, I was like, you know what? We should combine all these meetups and make it into a conference. And it's for the culture. We should call it Culture Con.

[Ben Walter]

Okay, so how did this start to really grow? Did you hire people right away?

[Imani Ellis]

You know, in the beginning, I did the thing that I guess they say you're not supposed to do. I just worked with all my friends. I looked at my friends and I was like, you're really good at marketing. Do you want to, like, be the head of marketing? And the problem and the mistake with that is I didn't define anything. I was like, do you just want to be like the head of Social.

[Ben Walter]

Were they paid or were they just doing it for fun?

[Imani Ellis]

Paid with my love. I had no money. We all had full time jobs and so we were all still working. I think for everyone, it was a hobby. It was very La vie bohem from rent. We all just come together, but, yeah, no one made money. And I think that was some of like, the funnest years was it wasn't work at the time, just a passion, and we were giving ourselves titles and it just felt like a rent renaissance of sorts because we were building something that we just. We hadn't seen before. I looked back at the Harlem Renaissance and the salons, and a lot of this felt so purposeful that I really did not think of it as a business. Obviously, I knew that we needed to cover cost, but I wasn't like, how do I maximize my ROI?

[Ben Walter]

CultureCon continued to grow, and around 27 people. It turned into an official you have to buy a ticket event. 150 people paid $25 each to attend. More and more people took notice, including famous curators and creators of culture.

[Imani Ellis]

We had Spike Lee. We didn't even have walkie talkies. We were texting each other, spike Lee is here. And then my friend Nabila said, have you seen the website? And I'm like, I have not. And she goes, there is a waiting list of over 500 people who wanted to get into this event, but they couldn't get into this event. And before I could stop myself, I said, well, I guess they'll just have to come next year. Next year, girl. And that has kind of been the impetus of scale, as I think, before I can stop myself, I really was naive in terms of what it took to create events.

[Ben Walter]

And yet Imani was creating events, and more importantly, she was creating new cultural moments as she went. Her speaker list reads like a who's who of cultural icons. Spike Lee, Michelle Obama, Law Roach, Yara Shahidi, Teyana Taylor. And as CultureCon grows, I have no doubt its cultural impact will too. Did you ever find yourself having a, I don't know if I can do this moment every day.

[Imani Ellis]

I mean, I had one yesterday. I think I was really waiting for an opportunity for fear to disappear. And I think if you're really like, no, no, no. When I don't feel afraid, that's when I'll do a thing. It's like, ready is not a feeling, it's a decision, Right?

[Ben Walter]

Yeah, there's a qu. I think it's Winston Churchill, but I'm not really sure. Some attribute it to Mark Twain. Some to Franklin Roosevelt, and indeed some to Winston Churchill. But it's not important who said it. It's what they said. Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is doing what you need to do despite being afraid.

[Imani Ellis]

Yes, exactly. And so that's been really just one of my anchors, is you feel fear because you care about this thing, not because you shouldn't do this thing. And at every step, I literally was stumbling through the dark, but knowing I could see visions. I could walk into an empty warehouse and be like, oh, the stage will go there. The seats will go there. So the first one was October 2017, and then we moved to the Knockdown Center 2018. Then we moved to De Gaulle Greenhouse in 2019.

[Ben Walter]

When you graduated to the Greenhouse, it did not go as planned. Tell me about that.

[Imani Ellis]

Oh, my goodness. So we decide that we're gonna need a bigger venue. And in the spirit of ambition, I decide that I'm going to go on a solo quest to find a new venue. And so I Google large venues in New York, and De Gaulle Greenhouse is one of the first that pops up. And I saw that Lady Gaga had had parties there. Beyonce rehearsed there for her super bowl performance. I was like, I gotta go.

[Ben Walter]

Dugal Greenhouse is a massive structure in the Brooklyn Navy Yards. Major brands and artists use it for activations all the time. But Dugal Greenhouse is a blank canvas. It's got concrete floors, gigantic windows that wash the entire structure in sunlight. It's a raw space that you can outfit well however you want. It's beautiful. But also, it's a warehouse. Imani scheduled a tour and went after.

[Imani Ellis]

Work one day, and I can already see. I'm like, the stage will go there. The VIP lounge will go there. We'll do our conversations in here. We'll do our activations over there. And just like that, I'm like, yes, Can I have the contract? And so I signed that contract. I mean, immediately. I think I went home and just signed it and sent it.

[Ben Walter]

She told her friend about her fantastic find. The next day.

[Imani Ellis]

She goes, you didn't take anyone who does production with you there? And I'm like, nope. How hard can it be? It's a beautiful venue.

[Ben Walter]

That question lingered in Imani's mind. She went back again, this time with a production friend.

[Imani Ellis]

She's like, this is a beautiful venue, but where are the bathrooms? I'm like, wait, how did I not see the bathrooms? And then she goes, and where's the air conditioning? And where are they going? And she just. 1, 2 3, 4. I remember being ice cold, ice cold. Like, I was freezing. I was so scared. I was so stressed because I immediately thought, I've gone too big. I can barely cover the cost for this venue, but I definitely can't cover the cost for this venue and all the things that this venue does not have. And then to make everything worse, I went back and read the contract and it's like, yeah, no, there is no refund. I remember exactly where I was, because I was in Union Square and I cried. And I really thought, oh, this is where your ambition has met your delusion.

[Ben Walter]

She did the only thing she could think of. She picked up the phone and started dialing up sponsors.

[Imani Ellis]

I thought, okay, if I can get the sponsorship costs to cover these costs, I think we'll be okay. We sold out.

[Ben Walter]

Sponsors came and more celebrities came.

[Imani Ellis]

Tracee Ellis threw pattern her new hair care product into the crowd. But it was definitely a game of arithmetic because I really, really, really was stretching myself and stretching my resources to a degree that I don't even know if I knew how much stress was going to be coming.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Well, what a rich conversation with Emani. I was so inspired by her. She's such a light.

[Ben Walter]

I thought it was a great conversation. For someone who runs essentially an experience company, she's an incredibly reflective and inwardly facing person. I have to give her props for recognizing herself in being incredibly self aware. And she's managed to construct something that resonates in that way with both her passion and her personal preferences.

[Kathleen Griffith]

That's right. And as someone who's a cultural strategist, I just find this space so interesting. You know, there are brands that are born out of the culture, and then there are those that tap into culture. And the way that I think about it is brands that are born out of the culture. Culture is that origin story. It's community first. Right. So in her case, she's this black female. Founders created a community and a business for other black and brown people. That is like the DNA of what she's created. And then there are brands that are tapping into the culture where they're using culture more as a marketing lever and they're more brand first. So that's how I think about it. I'm curious, does that resonate with you? Is that kind of what you saw in her story too?

[Ben Walter]

Yeah, I think there's a third category. I think that is her category.

[Imani Ellis]

Ooh.

[Ben Walter]

Well, I think there are brands that grow out of culture. I think there are brands that leverage culture. And then I think there are brands that create culture. Now, those are rare. Those are the ones that really burst onto the scene. Like I think of Peloton that way that created a subculture that didn't exist before around exercise. Whereas I think what she did, and it's no less impactful, it's just different, is she tapped into an unmet need of that culture and found a way to dig into it and amplify it and give it a home. And I think that's powerful in its own right.

[Kathleen Griffith]

What are the questions that I hear a lot is when should I be part of the cultural conversation? And I think the question you need to ask yourself is like, does it make sense to jump in? And there's usually two things. There's alignment. Does what's happening culturally align with your brand? And then there's timeliness. Like, can you jump in on if it's more trend based, Something that's in.

[Imani Ellis]

The here and now.

[Kathleen Griffith]

I've had Fun watching the Y2K 2000 trend crop up in culture recently. People are going back to nostalgia, a time of online and offline and flip phones and velour tracksuits. And that's been a fun one to see pop up. But you've seen some brands that shouldn't have been part of it who are jumping in.

[Ben Walter]

I think where brands go wrong is when they try to engage with part of the culture that really is either not that relevant, where they don't have any particular reason to have something to say, it usually falls flat. I mean, it's the same thing I tell people when they call me for career advice. And I say the number one thing you can do in your career and your life is to be authentic. Because people can smell BS a mile away. There are brands that sit at the crux of something happening in culture where it's obvious that they need to participate in it. But when brands try to force their way in, it rarely ends well.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Yeah, credibility has to be there. Authenticity has to be there. So one of the really brass tax questions I get a lot from entrepreneurs and small business owners is if you look at a calendar, the amount of cultural moments that happen in any given year, it's like a hundred.

[Imani Ellis]

You know, it's like absurd.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Like, do I participate in that? And then you have these cultural moments, which is these cultural flashpoints, these viral trends, and do I jump in on that? I like to tell founders to pick a few that again, feel aligned with your brand. That makes sense. Put them on the calendar, plan for them. If something happens to pop up that you Feel is aligned, go for it. But for the most part, less is more.

[Ben Walter]

These things, most of them just go right by people. So you can spend a lot of energy engaging in these cultural moments, but these cultural moments, for the most part, pass very quickly. And so my view is less is definitely more. The speed at which trends and memes and fads come and go is only ever getting faster. So you will occasionally hit on one and it'll be a perfect storm and you'll ride it. It's not that common.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Yeah, it's not that common. So let go of the cognitive fatigue of trying to pay attention to everything that's happening.

[Ben Walter]

Okay, let's get back to Emani. Over the next three years, CultureCon continued to grow and flourish. Even in 2020, Imani held CultureCon at home. 22,000 people showed up, but she would continue to work at her corporate job while growing culturecon for three more years.

[Imani Ellis]

For a good amount of time, maybe six years, I had two full time jobs and I look back at that version of myself and I was just so hungry, I wasn't satisfied. And I think for me it felt so much bigger than just me being satisfied. It just felt like our community deserved a space like this where quality and the intention was there and we weren't an afterthought.

[Ben Walter]

And if you're wondering how someone could work two full time jobs for six whole years, yes, she had the drive, but she also had a sense of awareness about her timeline and had the confidence to stick to her plan, despite what other people may have recommended.

[Imani Ellis]

For those six years, I was living two worlds. I would work at Bravo from 8am until 7pm, take a dinner break, go to watch what happens live, live at 11pm, take a car home, get home at maybe 1am, then I would sleep from like 1 to 5 and work on CultureCon from like, you know, 6 to 7. I loved my job, you know, and so I think for a lot of people the origin story was like, you couldn't stand your 9 to 5, so you leave and find freedom. I really liked my boss and my corporate job was really teaching me how to be a leader.

[Ben Walter]

Emani had worked herself into a VP position and CultureCon was growing. By the end of 2022, she was finally ready to give the creative collective her sole focus. 2023 was her first year as full.

[Imani Ellis]

Time CEO and I felt like I had a lot to prove because I was like, if it doesn't work, it's not because I didn't try. I was a team captain in My high school track team, and my coach would say, it's not going to fail because of me. And that is something that's, like, carved on my heart. So I was like, if it doesn't work as an entrepreneur, it's not because I didn't really give it a go, but I overdid it.

[Ben Walter]

In the first half of 2023, Imani and her team put on a CultureCon in Atlanta.

[Imani Ellis]

Sold out.

[Ben Walter]

Another in LA, sold out.

[Imani Ellis]

And my body was like, are we okay? How am I going to tell myself that we have the biggest culturecon New York coming up in October? I was hitting a breaking point, and I said, I can't. I have to take a break. I remembered that I had free will, and I just stopped three months out.

[Ben Walter]

From her biggest event of the year, and based on everything she'd worked up to, this was going to be her biggest event ever. And Imani walked away. The inspiration for this break came from one of her longtime heroes and creative inspirations, James Baldwin.

[Imani Ellis]

James Baldwin has always resonated with me. I feel like the reason I adore him so much is he puts so much language to things that I feel. And so I started reading about his time in America and how he went to Paris in the 60s and met so many different artists and so many different people and got to show a different expression of himself. And I said, I'm going to do that. I'm going to go to Paris. I'm going to take a break. And so, as I burned out, I took myself on a creative residency in 2023.

[Ben Walter]

I'm a banker. I don't know what a creative residency is.

[Imani Ellis]

I know I kind of invented it, actually. I feel like bankers really need this. So it is a curriculum that I built for myself. And the goal was not that the output would be some work of art. I would be the work of art. I did 30 days in France. I went from Paris, and then I did the south of France. And along the way, I built this curriculum that I followed. The first part of my creative residency is play. And the definition is, if there's no reason to say no, say yes. And so I was saying yes to everything. To creps, to artists drawing me in the street, to getting a drink with a new friend. And I just allowed myself to shake off the pretension of adulthood and just be so light and free. The second part is still, which is the hardest part for me, because still is different than rest. You're still lying in wait. You're just reflecting and thinking. And so that's the second part. And then the third part is to really act. And so it's okay. In my playtime, in my still time, what do I want to take with me as I return back to my regular schedule? By the end of my trip, I was so inspired and so rested and so ready to tackle Culture Con.

[Ben Walter]

Interesting, because, you know, some entrepreneurs come on and they're like, you can't be an entrepreneur unless you are willing to live it, breathe it, eat it, sleep it. 24 7, 365. That's it. That's the only way. There can be nothing else in your life other than building that company.

[Imani Ellis]

I think there are seasons of that. In my 20s, you know, when I talk about starting this company at 25 to 30, that was my life. I made a lot of sacrifices. And I will never tell an entrepreneur that you don't need to be obsessed. You need a borderline level of obsession, and you need to care. If you don't care, literally no one else will care. But I do think that there also comes a season where you can also see, am I sustaining? Because if you're an entrepreneur and at year six, you're doing the same amount of can't sleep, always drinking energy drinks, amount of work that you were doing and year one, I really would say that you've got to look at your system.

[Ben Walter]

Then, Houston, we have a problem.

[Imani Ellis]

We got a problem. Yeah, it's not that it's not hard, but you should have different kinds of problems, I think, because we have to return to the natural order, which is rhythm. And somewhere along the line, we told ourselves that if you put push, push, push, push harder, you'll get a better return. But I'm realizing that at a certain point, it is diminishing returns. It's not your best. You're sluggish. It's not creative, it's not innovative. Anytime I'm giving advice, I say, this is what works for me. But it's based on my values. If you don't value rest, you might not think that a creative residency makes sense for you in this season of your life. I say give it a little bit of time. You probably will come around to do it. I did PR in crisis for 10 years. I understand everything being urgent. I completely understand never turning off. But in this chapter of my life, that just isn't the version of life that I want to have.

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[Imani Ellis]

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[Ben Walter]

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[Ben Walter]

Kathleen what an interesting subject. I'm just so fascinated by the idea that in the busiest season of her life, when she's super successful, Imani took 30 days off to rest.

[Kathleen Griffith]

What I'm obsessed with, as you know, is the athlete mindset. So when I started out as a business owner, I didn't really relate to the Howard Schultzes of the world and the Sheryl Sandbergs and lean in, lean out, the business leaders had no real resonance for me. And so I actually turned to athletes to see what does it take to go the distance in your business to have that endurance. And I love that. Emani, with her background in sport and being a runner, was able just to parlay that naturally into her business, where she thinks about things as sprint periods, rest and recovery periods, understanding her natural rhythm and that she needs to create in seasons. So it's not a marathon, it's not a sprint. It's more of the seasonal approach to figuring out when you need to be on, when you need to be off. You don't need to be on all the time either.

[Ben Walter]

And in her off time, sort of like an athlete would say, she's using that time for active recovery. She's traveling, she's experiencing new things and using that time for herself. And even though those excursions may feel totally unrelated to, you know, her job, all of that comes through in her work later on. I travel a lot for work. I've been all around the world over the last 30 years. And one of the things that I find as a business person is I really pay attention when I travel, and I do this when I travel in my own life is I pay attention to the business environment in other countries because I find that I'm inspired for things that I can do better when I get back. And when you live sort of immersed in the bubble that we have in the US or in your particular state or your hometown or wherever it is. I do think sometimes you don't get the breadth of thinking that comes when you travel internationally. I lived in London for a couple years and I remember thinking like the way they do certain Things, whether it's food delivery or banking, they had taken some friction out of some things that we hadn't quite gotten to in the U.S. i'll give you a great example of one that came here. When I lived in London, Tap to pay was like already way a thing. So I would just tap my watch to get on the tube in London, which you can now do in New York. But when I first came back, you couldn't. Wow. I could do that back in 2018 in London. And so I found that after that experience, when I travel to new countries, whether it's in Asia or Europe or doesn't matter where, I'm always paying attention to how people are transacting business and how they're doing it, not just in my own industry, but in others. And that I get lots of ideas from that.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Yeah, I like you. Lots of business travel and lots of personal travel. I think it's interesting, right. Because when I think about travel, I think about domestic and I think about international. Very different. Like the international travels, perhaps a bit more of a luxury. It leads to more disruptive thinking around processes and people. And you have things that hit you that otherwise wouldn't. Immersing yourself in culture, which we don't do nearly enough because we're behind our computer screens. We're not getting out in the world and actually bumping up against real people and what's really happening in the market. And you just, you start to get such an intuitive sense for what's happening that you don't get again when you're tethered to a computer screen. So I think that combination is powerful if you can make it work. But at the very least, small business owners need to be getting out way more than most that I talk to are. Like, the return on investment is 10x spending a day out in the world, wandering around, taking it all in as just an observer relative to a day behind a computer screen. And I find that that tends to work best closer to home.

[Ben Walter]

That's true. And you need to talk to your employees and your clients. I mean, when we first started this, we talked about the bus trip that I took.

[Kathleen Griffith]

Yep.

[Ben Walter]

I mean, you have to get out there and. And, you know, put the phone away. Imani is a great example of what happens when we can just put the phone down for a little while. But she didn't just discover the benefits of travel as an adult.

[Imani Ellis]

When I was younger, you know, my parents are missionaries and my dad used to work for the North American Mission Board. And I remember being 5am and he would come and kiss me goodbye and go fly off. And I just thought that was so cool. Sometimes I really have to just, like, pinch myself that I get to travel for business for a company that I created. It's really mind blowing. But I love traveling the world. I love feeling really small in new spaces. And I really am a fan of talking to the person that I sit by on the plane for the first 10 minutes. Then I'll put on my earphones and I'll listen to a movie. But I'm a curious person, and I think travel just, like, expedites that curiosity.

[Ben Walter]

Imani has also opened up new creative residencies for other people who are hoping to rest and reset just like she did.

[Imani Ellis]

I really did that travel experience for myself to come back to my most abundant and creative self. But what I found is that people that followed wanted that itinerary as well. And so I was able to bring back the creative experience, package it up. And now we are doing creative residencies with entrepreneurs and corporate creatives who are burnt out. And so I think that's really such a visible example of traveling somewhere and allowing that to be a through line and an inspiration to my business.

[Ben Walter]

Does that mean travel has become sort of essential to the way that you think about building your business?

[Imani Ellis]

I think the thing about creative residency is you can do it wherever you live. So obviously, you know, we glorify like, yes, go to friends and eat a baguette and you'll come back James Baldwin. But you can also do creative residency in New York City. It's just about reframing kind of your approach to your journey.

[Ben Walter]

For Imani, and for anyone seeking more inspiration, it's more about being out in the world, observing, exploring, and finding new ways to think about things. Sparks of new ideas that can come from anywhere. You mentioned a house party in London that influenced how you run your events. I mean, I wouldn't really think that a house party in London would translate into a mega event like what you do. I used to live in London. So tell me about this.

[Imani Ellis]

I was in this house party in London, and I get there and it's the first 30 minutes to an hour. People are just meeting each other, and then the host comes out and she gives us, like, an icebreaker and put us in different groups, and we were able to kind of compete in this different game. And I thought, there's something here. Like, I love that you don't come in and immediately there are rules. You kind of come in and, like, do your own thing. But then Instead of letting the whole night go like that, there's a little bit of structure in the middle, just enough. But, like, you're not forced, but you're encouraged to meet other people because you.

[Ben Walter]

Don'T have to wander around looking for someone to talk to.

[Imani Ellis]

Right. And I thought that was so thoughtful because without that, like, structure, we probably would have all stayed in our little pods all night.

[Ben Walter]

Not only did it help Imani break out of her shell and meet new people, she also brought that idea of structured and unstructured time back to CultureCon.

[Imani Ellis]

I was like, oh, that's interesting. Like, what if we, in addition to having, like, a formal panel, had a little bit more unstructured things? We're introducing something this year called the four minute Pitch contest, where you can get on the culture stage for four minutes and pitch whatever you're working on. It's going back to the apartment, getting through a breakup, trying to invest. You have four minutes to pitch, and then the community has four minutes back, one sentence at a time, to give you advice, and then we connect you at the end.

[Ben Walter]

It's such a merge between your personal life and your professional life. Right. Because your events are social events, which is what a lot of people spend their personal time doing. So are you sort of secretly working all the time because you're trying to figure out how to turn your personal social experiences into your events, or it's not that explicit?

[Imani Ellis]

I don't think it's that explicit. I think the reason that culturecon has scaled is because it came from personal events that people can relate to. But I also have so many other things that just aren't monetizable that I just enjoy. And I think that goes back to playtime.

[Ben Walter]

I do want to talk to you about what's next for CultureCon, because I understand that there's new verticals coming. And so tell me about, like, you've got CultureCon where it needs to be. It's time for the next leg up. What does that next leg up look like?

[Imani Ellis]

Yeah. So one of the things we've been really excited about is this year at CultureCon, we're launching more summits. So summits are really, really specific learning verticals for our community based on the feedback they've given us in the focus groups. And so we're introducing a sports summit for creators and creatives and executives who want to work sports. We're introducing an AI Summit, the first ever founder summit, also bringing back our small business market. And so it's an entire ecosystem of education, thinking of it as almost like business school for the entrepreneur and the creative. And we're also going to have speed networking this year, a job fair this year. Obviously this economy has been up and down and so just excited for people to talk to recruiters and understand in this new age, like, what are they looking for when it comes to hiring. And then CultureCon Week is back. So leading up to CultureCon, there's over 30, 30 events that take place all over New York City.

[Ben Walter]

Where do you want it to be in five years?

[Imani Ellis]

I don't have. You know, it's so funny. I used to.

[Ben Walter]

You don't do the five year thing.

[Imani Ellis]

No, I don't. I don't do the five year thing. I used to. And I really needed that in my teens and twenties. I remember coming into NBC at 20 years old and saying, I want to be a vice president by the time I'm 30. That was a very clear goal. And I was 30 and I became a vice president. And then I stopped doing it after that. I have surpassed my goals. It's like, I don't know, maybe I'll start like a dinner club.

[Ben Walter]

All right, so the one question I want to ask you before we go, because I ask everyone who comes on the show this is if you could give an aspiring or current entrepreneur one piece of advice, what would it be?

[Imani Ellis]

Keep your eyes on your own paper. Focus on the art that you're creating and get advice. But don't compare your art to someone else's art. They might have started earlier, they might have more resources, but it's not over till it's over.

[Ben Walter]

Imani, thanks so much. It's really been great having you here.

[Imani Ellis]

Thank you for having me.

[Ben Walter]

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Unshakeables. If you liked this episode, please rate and review it on our next episode. We're talking to founders who happen to be doctors, but they're doctors who are taking on the way that our entire healthcare system practices emergency medicine. And they're doing it by starting a tech company. Emergency departments aren't optimally equipped to take care of complex older adults.

[Imani Ellis]

This is a five alarm fire for.

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A lot of hospitals and health systems.

[Ben Walter]

I'm Ben Walter and this is the Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. We'll see you back here soon.