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- [00:04]
Ruby
Ruby.
- [00:08]
Ben Walter
Choosing the right business partner is kind of like choosing a life partner. A good match leads to years of happiness and success. And to find this person, it's a little like dating. There's a wooing phase, if you will. In 2018, George Esquivel was looking for an investment to scale his company, Esquivel Designs. One of his friends set him up with a guy, let's call him Kyle. That first meeting, they hit it off.
- [00:34]
George Esquivel
And he says, hey, I hear you're looking for some money. I said, well, I want to grow the business. This is what I'm thinking of doing. And he goes, all right, I'm in.
- [00:41]
Ben Walter
The next six months were a whirlwind affair. Expensive dinners, private planes, box seats at basketball games.
- [00:47]
George Esquivel
He was buying a lot of product for people. Then he invites my family and I to this crazy, crazy villa in Lake Cuomo. Butlers, the whole thing, it was weird.
- [01:00]
Ben Walter
But just, you know, normal, everyday LA weird.
- [01:04]
George Esquivel
He was an odd guy, another eccentric with money, right?
- [01:08]
Ben Walter
Things were going well. They even talked about getting a retail space together. It would become George's showroom in downtown Los Angeles. This was it, the perfect fairy tale. Until it wasn't.
- [01:23]
George Esquivel
Out of nowhere, they back out. Like, out of nowhere. My life turns upside down. I had very little debt up until this point, and now I have crazy amounts of money that we're paying rent in la. We later find out that they were running a Ponzi scheme to the tune of $220 million. It rocked my world.
- [01:50]
Ben Walter
Welcome to the Unshakables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from Iheartmedia. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business. On the Unshakeables, we're sharing the daring moments of small business owners facing their crisis points and telling the stories of how they got through it. We have so many great stories for you this season and some incredible guest hosts who are bringing their business acumen and experience to the show. For today, I want to welcome back a guest you heard on the last episode, Kathleen Griffith. Welcome back to the Unshakables.
- [02:21]
Kathleen Griffith
I'm so thrilled to be here with you and especially for this episode.
- [02:25]
Ben Walter
We're so excited to have you here. As someone who works with small business owners and is also a master of branding and marketing, I didn't have an opportunity to ask you this last time, but can you talk to us a little bit about why did you agree to come on the show? What was the hook? How do we get you here?
- [02:41]
Kathleen Griffith
I have a background in consulting for some of the biggest brands in the world. So I'm a huge believer in the, the power of brands and big businesses and how they can drive huge movements of people toward new products and services. That scale has always really interested me. But when I became a small business owner myself about a decade ago, my life looked very different. You know, internally I was bubblegum and scotch taping my entire business together as a one woman band. And so I just developed a tremendous amount of compassion for other small business owners like me. 70% of small business owners, businesses are owned and operated by a single person flexing in market, trying to pretend they're bigger and better and badder and braver than they are. And so I really wanted to take what I have learned in consulting and democratize that for more. Small business owners really bring practical tools and resources and skill sets in addition to kind of the right mindset to this community. And I'm now glad and grateful to be part of it. I feel like I finally found my people and honestly, Ben, I hadn't felt like I'd found my people before.
- [03:55]
Ben Walter
That's great. Well, we're thrilled to have you join for a few episodes this season. I'm excited for you to hear this one. It's quite a tale. So let's get rolling. On today's episode, Esquivel designs from Buena Park, California. In so many ways, George's story is the classic American dream. It begins in sunny Orange county in Southern California, the mid-90s. Let's set the scene. At the time, most Americans were hearing the likes of Montel Jordan, Mariah Carey and Boyz II Men on the radio. But in Southern California, and for a young George Esquivel, the moment unequivocally belonged to ska and punk.
- [04:33]
George Esquivel
The whole Orange county punk rockabilly scene started happening. No doubt. And lit and social distancing distortion, all these cool bands, and that's who I just gravitated to. And the style was vintage and kind of punk and kind of rockabilly. So I was going to vintage stores.
- [04:52]
Ben Walter
George was used to thrifting in vintage stores.
- [04:55]
George Esquivel
In high school, we were thrift shopping because we couldn't afford clothes. But then it became thrift store vintage because vintage got cool. My criminal father always had very good style. My mom would alter everything for him. It doesn't matter how expensive or how inexpensive your clothes are. The tailoring just makes them look so they fit you.
- [05:16]
Ben Walter
George's father was a style role model, but not much else. He dealt drugs and was in and out of prison. He was, by George's account, Not a nice man.
- [05:27]
George Esquivel
I had all of these frustrations and all of this anger and whatever angst that every teenager has. And then you have a criminal father who's out dealing drugs and causing trouble. I loved fashion because it was a fantasy world and you get to dress the part and you get to be someone else. You just have angst and you want to express yourself.
- [05:50]
Ben Walter
He kicked his father out of the house when he was just 19. And right about that time, he also started going to punk shows. The energy of the music, it matched his mood.
- [06:00]
George Esquivel
My escape from my life was going to concerts with my girlfriend.
- [06:04]
Ben Walter
And he was young and free and rocking the rockabilly. The clothes he had down, but he could never figure out what shoes to wear.
- [06:13]
George Esquivel
At the time, everybody was wearing Doc Martens and Creepers. The Doc Martens I already had, but they were kind of basic. The Creepers were too. They were too much. I didn't want to wear a 4 inch platform. That's just not who I am.
- [06:24]
Ben Walter
So on their way down to the shows, George and his girlfriend would stop in shoe stores.
- [06:29]
George Esquivel
My girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, we used to go to Baja, which was like Tijuana, Rosarito, Ensenada. And at the time we used to go to concerts. And I would buy vintage shoes, but they never quite fit. And on one of these trips to Baja, I saw a sign that said Bootmaker. And I walked in and I said, hey, can you guys make me a pair of shoes if I give you a quick sketch? And they made me a pair of shoes. And that was it.
- [06:58]
Ben Walter
He kept going to concerts. The scene was small, so everyone got to know each other. And people started noticing his feet.
- [07:06]
George Esquivel
I just wear the shoes. And people would ask, what are you wearing? And I'd say, they're my shoes and how do I get a pair? And I wasn't about to go all the way to Baja to make more shoes.
- [07:16]
Ben Walter
Concerts were George's hobby, but he had a day job. He was a repairman for a chain of linen stores. He drove up and down a 200 mile stretch of highway from San Diego to Bakersfield.
- [07:28]
George Esquivel
And I started realizing all of these shoe repairs that I was noticing on my route. And I said to myself, if they can fix them, they must know somebody who can make them.
- [07:38]
Ben Walter
Along the way, George stopped at repair shops searching for a cobbler. He tried different shops along the route, but it was always the same story. He'd commission a pair of shoes and hate them. Then one day he stopped in a dusty shop near Bakersfield to see if anything would be different.
- [07:54]
George Esquivel
I show up and the shoes don't fit. They don't look like anything I wanted. Get in an argument, gain my money back, the whole thing. I storm out of there, and there's this gentleman that follows me out. And I said something kind of rude like, aren't you part of that group of those clowns in there? You know, because to me, it was just wasting my time, wasting my energy. He said, look, I'm not part of them. I'm a retired shoemaker, and for some reason, I'd like you to come to my house and I want to show you something.
- [08:20]
Ben Walter
In the shoemaker's garage, George finally struck gold.
- [08:25]
George Esquivel
Oh, my gosh. There was all of these beautiful old machines and the molds and the last to make shoes, and instantly it transported me to that shop in Baja. So he makes me a pair of shoes, and I'm like, well, so how am I going to sell them?
- [08:42]
Ben Walter
And it turns out he didn't have to try that hard.
- [08:46]
George Esquivel
Instantly, all of my friends want a pair of shoes. And I go back to the shoemaker. I said, look, I have an order of, like, 20 pairs of shoes. So what we would do is I would give him half of the money, and I think he was either charging me three or four hundred dollars for a pair of shoes. I'd give him half up front, and when he delivers, I would give him the second half. We ended up selling, like, 2,500 pairs of shoes in two years out of a garage.
- [09:13]
Ben Walter
Including selling shoes to some of his new friends who were in bands. And some of those bands were starting to get popular. I'll name one Gwen Stefani. She needed some boots to wear on stage at an upcoming show, and she.
- [09:27]
George Esquivel
Said, hey, I have an idea for some boots, and this brand won't make them for me. I'm like, I'll make them for you. And one was a hot pink combat boot. The other one was a hot pink kind of go, go, dancer boot type of thing. One of the things that I realized is, throughout this whole process, there was a lot of things that I couldn't do, but I would do it anyways. I knew that we were going to fail. But I'm like, you know what? I'm never going to get the opportunity again. I might as well do it. For example, the Gwen Stefani boot. I had never made anything like that. And I go to fit her the first time, she goes, it won't go up my leg, George. I'm like, all right, let Me adjust it. Then I saw her again. She's like, those fricking boots I love so much, but they're such a pain to put on. I'm like, I'm so sorry.
- [10:09]
Ben Walter
Clearly not too much of a pain because Gwen Stefani wore them to the show anyway.
- [10:14]
George Esquivel
She wore them to the Vogue VH1 Fashion Awards. And it kind of just kept going from there. I don't remember when it became a hobby and when it became a job. I can't tell you. Like, I stopped working, but the LA Times did a piece on me. Cause I was selling to a vintage store. Then Hollywood came calling. And then like the Drew Carey Show, I started making shoes for them. I made shoes for the cast of Friends. And then after that, athletes started calling. You know, because these people in the entertainment, whether it's athletes or musicians or actors, they all kind of just like designers hang out, right? They all hang out. And by now it's kind of getting away from that whole rockabilly thing. Cause I don't have that much angst anymore.
- [11:00]
Ben Walter
Retailers started to notice as his style developed. He got a collaboration with Fred Siegel and. And through Fred Siegel, he got even more clients.
- [11:10]
George Esquivel
I ended up getting Nicolas Cage as a client and he says, hey, I want to wear your shoes for the Oscars. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, this is so silly, you know? Cause I want my shoes to be seen on the red carpet, right? You're going to get some press. But the thing is, there's no red carpet that year.
- [11:26]
Ben Walter
The Oscars were scheduled for September 16, 2001. They didn't happen on that date. They were postponed because of 9, 11. They eventually happened though, and there was no red carpet. But Nic Cage, Nic Cage always finds a way.
- [11:41]
George Esquivel
They do a close up on him and he crosses his legs and then there's the shoes. All the stylists started calling. Then we did Arnold Schwarzenegger and, you know, just Sylvester Stolen. Just more and more people.
- [11:55]
Ben Walter
That was a terrific story. George is a really fascinating guy.
- [11:59]
Kathleen Griffith
It is the ultimate small business story. It's the American dream of someone who comes from nothing and then builds a business out of necessity.
- [12:09]
Ben Walter
What I thought was really interesting is that it was the intersection of necessity and passion. Because you meet some people who build something only out of necessity, right? I didn't know what else to do. I needed money. I went and did it right? You meet some people who say, I just always had a passion for whatever this thing is. And so I went and built it. He actually found this intersection of necessity and passion. Like, I never heard of this kid who grew up with no money who coveted these beautiful shoes. You know, that's a really unusual combination.
- [12:35]
Kathleen Griffith
Yeah, he did. He had a glint in his eye for perfectionism coming from nothing. It was this aspirational place, probably this dreamland that he really escaped to. But I know you and I share a similar ethos around real small business owners, and I think there's so much focus on those IPO seekers, the unicorns of it all. And there really is just something so earnest in someone who. Who wants to build a business, wants to make some money, wants to do good, and wants to be part of the fabric of what makes, I think, small businesses great.
- [13:11]
Ben Walter
Yeah. And I think he, in particular, he does model that form of entrepreneur, but I think he also models the deep hunger and drive that comes from somewhere. And clearly, for him, a big part of it was that necessity. You talk to a lot of small business owners. You work with small business owners, you help them build brands. Do you see a difference in the ones who have that sort of real drive versus the ones who don't?
- [13:35]
Kathleen Griffith
So I have a controversial point of view about this, which is you're born with the hustle and with the grit. Not everyone is a small business owner. And I think there are rare instances in the entrepreneurs that I work with where there's been this breakdown in their life, like this cataclysmic life event that kind of blindsides them and brings them to their knees and humbles them and then gives them this hunger and this drive and this desire to forcibly push some idea into the world. But for the most part, I think you're born as a small business owner. You're not. I'm curious to get your po.
- [14:08]
Ben Walter
You're generally nature over nurture.
- [14:09]
Kathleen Griffith
Yeah, I sure am.
- [14:10]
Ben Walter
You had to pick one. Yeah, I think you're probably right. I think most of the business owners I talk to will tell me they were hustling when they were in middle school.
- [14:19]
Kathleen Griffith
They just are like that, doing candy arbitrage.
- [14:22]
Ben Walter
Yeah. I think most of them are probably, like, certainly the ones who have the grit to get through. So let's talk a little bit about George's story, because unlike a lot of people we talk to on the show, and it'd be good to hear about some of your experiences with other business owners and maybe how it translates. He didn't sort of get out there and, like, start a business. And I don't mean that as an insult. I mean that affectionately, but the business didn't so much start and grow as it did evolve from an amorphous form. Do you see other businesses that sort of evolve like that? Are they typically more structured?
- [14:57]
Kathleen Griffith
It was very organic. And I think a lot of the traditional business owners who have the MBA pedigree, they're starting with a business plan and a co founder, but that's not what we're talking about. I think the lion's share of small business owners that I work with really have a passion to create something and then are figuring it out as they go. You know, they're really figuring it out on the fly. One of the things that I think he did particularly well though is establish those strategic partnerships and at the onset and obviously that can, if you over rotate on those, they can also consume and kind of subsume your business. But he was able to align himself with interesting brands and people.
- [15:41]
Ben Walter
Yeah. The other thing I was struck by is, and you know, you hear a lot of people talk about this and I think he would say it himself. It's a little bit of grit and a little bit of luck. And I think the harder you you work, the luckier you get, but you still need a little bit of both.
- [15:52]
Kathleen Griffith
Yeah, that's right.
- [15:56]
Ben Walter
George continued for the next few years running a made to order custom shoe brand for the rich and famous. His shoes would go from $500 to $1500 a pair, and they took months to make. The work was steady but unchanging.
- [16:10]
George Esquivel
I would basically just show up at your house and what do you want, Ben? Well, I like that one in brown and that one in green and that one in Bordeaux. Done. That was kind of how I did my business. I like to say the answer is yes, what do you want? Right. But that is not. That's a different business than having a collection and saying, this is what.
- [16:26]
Ben Walter
You can't scale that.
- [16:27]
George Esquivel
Yeah, you can't scale that. It wasn't evolving. I was just a shoe guy. I wasn't evolving as a designer because I didn't understand how to evolve. I didn't understand collections and I wasn't really selling to stores. I wasn't connected to that world. What I realized is a lot of people, you go to school and you make great contacts to school. Right. And if you're in school, you might go to school with an editor or a friend of a friend. My inner circle was la. Now I was very lucky that the woman that wrote the first article about me in the LA Times went on to become a Woman's Wear Daily. The bureau chief of la. Her Name is Rose Apodaca. So she would from time to time, hey, George, call this person. Hey, George, do this.
- [17:09]
Ben Walter
One of the people Rose introduced him to was Lisa Love, the west coast director of Vogue magazine. They had a meeting.
- [17:16]
George Esquivel
Lisa Love says, I love what you're doing. Where have you been? I'm like, what do you mean? She's how come you're not a part of fashion? I was like, I don't know. How do you become a part of fashion? You know, I didn't understand that. And she goes, I love what you're doing. You need to apply for the Vogue fashion fund.
- [17:32]
Ben Walter
The CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund was established after 911 to help cultivate up and coming American designers. Some household names have been through this fund, and in 2008, so did George. They started with 300 applicants, and from there, 50 are selected. They keep whittling down the group until they get to a top 10.
- [17:52]
George Esquivel
I was getting on the plane to go to New York, and I get the call from the CFDA, Stephen Kolb, who was the CEO, and he says, George, you're one of the 10 finalists. I'm like, what the heck? So my life completely changed from the CFD of old fashioned fund to they put you through the paces. You have these contests, you meet all kinds of people, and then there's a big photo shoot involved, and you get to pick a muse.
- [18:18]
Ben Walter
George had recently met an up and coming musician named Janelle Monae. He loved her.
- [18:23]
George Esquivel
Immediately for Vogue, they said, who do you want as your muse? I said, I want Janelle Monae. And they're like, who? So they look her up and they're like, oh, she's cute. I'm like, no, she's freaking cool. So I said, janelle, what shoes do you like? She's always in black and white. Back at the time. She's changed now, but she was very much into saddle shoes. And I have this one shoe that I designed for Fred Siegel. It was an asymmetrical striped shoe. And she's all, george, I love that shoe. I'm like, okay, well, let's remake it for you. I brought black and white, white and black. She put on this insane white tuxedo. If you look up her first major video, the tightrope video, those are all our shoes. And then she was nominated for a Grammy with Bruno Mars. And the Grammy museum actually took the entire outfit. And it lives in the Grammy museum. Our shoes with her suit.
- [19:16]
Ben Walter
But back to the fashion fund. George didn't win.
- [19:20]
George Esquivel
I'm like, man, this kind of sucks. The three winners get money, and they go to the front of the line for mentorships. I didn't have an official mentor, but I did have mentors.
- [19:31]
Ben Walter
And he'd gotten close to the accessories editor at Vogue.
- [19:35]
George Esquivel
The accessories editor says to me, george, think about what you learned from this experience and what do you want? And they said, you can ask for anything. I'm like, okay, I want to meet with Anna.
- [19:45]
Ben Walter
That's Anna Wintour, by the way.
- [19:47]
George Esquivel
But they said, don't ask anything you're not willing to do. And this is not about chitchat. This is about business. And just like you see in the movie the Devil Wears Prada, she's asking questions and there's people taking notes. And she says, so what do you want to do next? I said, I want to learn how to do international business and grow my business. And then she says to me, well, you need to go back to school, and you also need to consult internationally. Well, how am I going to do that? Again, not knowing who she is, they call her the fairy godmother for a reason. So we talk for a little while. I leave her office, and my BlackBerry's just blowing up. Ben. This happened instantly. As soon as I walked out of our office. They were already contacting people.
- [20:27]
Ben Walter
I just heard that ring from Devil Wears Friday. Like, da na na na na. Like the alarms go off all over Vogue and everyone's calling you.
- [20:33]
George Esquivel
Yep.
- [20:35]
Ben Walter
After that meeting, the phone wouldn't stop ringing. He worked with Fratelli, Rossetti, Ferragamo, and even more European designers. He did a collection with Jenna Lyons and got those shoes into Bergdorfs. I should add, as an aside, while I'm sitting here in my standard issue middle aged quarter zip, that's the most designer names I've ever said in one go. Anyway, he was kissed into the major fashion shows by Anna Wintour and had showrooms in Paris, Berlin, and Los Angeles with Tommy Hilfiger. The Vogue accessories editor that was his original champion called him back. She let him know that Toomey was looking for a new creative director.
- [21:13]
George Esquivel
We at Vogue think it should be you. And now my juices start flowing because I had a very small business in a very small world, right? And I'm thinking, now that I have the juice of Fratelli, Rossetti and Vogue and I'm being introduced, and I'm like, oh, I can do anything I want. Not anything I want, but, you know, I can start thinking bigger.
- [21:36]
Ben Walter
He was with Tumi for two years, eventually leaving to focus again on Esquivel.
- [21:42]
George Esquivel
I have business partners. And we said, I'm making a lot of money for a lot of other people. I really wanted to push my brand into that next level. I wanted to do something before I turn 50, like make a splash, right? That was kind of my big deadline.
- [22:00]
Ben Walter
George didn't want to sell Esquivel or partner with another brand. He wanted to keep Esquivel designs pure. So instead, he started looking for an investor. One day, one of his employees, Maria, came in with a proposition. Her partner, Kyle, was in film financing. He routinely raised large sums of money for creative ventures and was interested in partnering with George.
- [22:24]
George Esquivel
He says, hey, I hear you're looking for some money. I said, well, I want to grow the business. This is what I'm thinking of doing. And he says, look, I think I can really help you.
- [22:34]
Ben Walter
Kyle brought George to private jet hangars. He took helicopters to meetings and sent in contacts who would buy thousands of dollars worth of shoes at a time. There were over the top dinners, a vacation to Lake Cuomo with a butler, the whole shebang. But the whole time, George was talking about the plan, the budget, and the business.
- [22:54]
George Esquivel
So we start down this path and we're trying to grow it. And along every step of the way, when I would push him on something, he'd say, hey, can I meet so and so? I'm like, sure, but let's figure this out. My organization is so small. When I'm focusing on creating a business plan and a budget and all this for him, my business kind of slows down because my focus comes off of business, Right?
- [23:20]
Ben Walter
Kyle started pushing George to get a showroom in la. George already had a space in Orange county and a small location to meet celebrities or stylists. But Kyle wanted something bigger.
- [23:30]
George Esquivel
Him and Maria would show up to the site visits with me, and they met the landlord. So the day we were supposed to sign the lease, I remember we're gonna sign. We find a space, and he takes a call and walks away. And I don't see him again. So I text him, I'm like, hey, where you at? We gotta sign this. Oh, don't worry about it. I got you covered. We'll figure it out. I'm like, okay. Keep in mind, Maria's still working for me. There's no final resolution of the money. It's all in good faith. But now I'm getting frustrated and getting annoyed because I'm depleting my savings.
- [24:05]
Ben Walter
While this was all going on, George applied for an SBA loan, which is a loan from a bank that can have attractive terms because it's partially backed by the federal government.
- [24:15]
George Esquivel
Let's hedge our bets. Let's just see what happens. I want to say it was probably like half a million. We apply for the loan, but we get it. And I said to him, I said, what is the deal? Because I have this loan that I can take. Or are you coming on board? He goes, don't take the loan. I got you. Don't worry about it. We didn't take the loan and it expired.
- [24:35]
Ben Walter
Right? So how did this all come to a head?
- [24:37]
George Esquivel
I remember calling him out at a meeting. I'm like, look, we've now started construction. You owe me this much money. This is time. Put up or shut up. This is it. End of the line. We get a text from Maria that she is resigning. She is no longer part of this. And I said, maria, what are you talking about? You're my partner. I've been treating you as a partner. I've been including you in everything. She resigns, he says he's not going to give me any money. He's changed his mind and it just turns into like a total shit show. That same year is the year Barney's filed for bankruptcy. That's our largest retail partner.
- [25:21]
Ruby
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- [26:26]
Ben Walter
Kathleen, what a story. So you know, he had a couple of sort of frightening moments in his journey and I'd like To talk about a couple of those, I think we can start with the investor who shift him, so to speak. We've had a lot of guests on the show talk about these moments where someone wasn't who they thought they were. And for small business owners who are sort of desperate to get people to call them back, which I get, I can understand how that also makes them easy targets for people who are pretending to be something they're not.
- [26:59]
Kathleen Griffith
The honest appraisal, I think is what needs to happen first for an entrepreneur, like, do you have a business that is legitimately needing capital? Are you a high potential, high growth business that needs an infusion of capital? So you're basically pouring gasoline on a fire. What I heard in this case was he had a made to order business that was maybe a direct to consumer business. And he didn't really actually have a plan for what he was going to do with this capital, except for building out a brick and mortar brand experience, essentially. So it feels to me like he was looking for an investor to come and transform his business. And I think that's traditionally not a great recipe.
- [27:46]
Ben Walter
But then his other big one, and we've come across this before, was heavy dependence on one distribution channel. Right. So Barney's goes down and he's in a world of hurt.
- [27:55]
Kathleen Griffith
This is such a big area of caution, like throw the red flags on the field. This is, to me, deeply problematic when you have a business business and you are focused on one core buyer and you have one purchase order that can make your business essentially sink or swim. And so I think that's something most business owners need to think about. Like how do you diversify your sources of revenue so you're not in that sort of predicament?
- [28:23]
Ben Walter
That's a hard thing. And it's a hard thing when that relationship is always successful.
- [28:27]
Kathleen Griffith
Yeah. You think it'll never happen to you. Right. It's just such a good thing.
- [28:31]
Ben Walter
Right. Or they want more. It's hard not to give more to your best client, even when you know you need more clients more than you need more of your best client. It's a hard thing. Let's find out how Georgia's story ends. What happened? I mean, it sounds like you're doing well now. How'd you get from A to B? The last.
- [28:46]
George Esquivel
I would say the last two or three years, it's just been a really difficult, like, what are we going to do? Am I walking away? Am I going to get a job? And I would say a year and a half ago, I met one of My clients, who happens to be an angel investor and a vc, and I thought he was just a gentleman who loved beautiful things, right. So it turns out he wanted to invest and we put a plan together. So we're still climbing out of it. The last four or five years have been really hard. It's been a learning experience. It's been a lot of reflection. It's just you got to keep fighting.
- [29:20]
Ben Walter
So you now have a new partner, you have a new partnership. Where do you see your brand in five years?
- [29:25]
George Esquivel
I want to grow this as big as possible. Five to seven years. It'd be nice if someone takes over the Escovel X brand and grows it to whatever they want to grow it to. And I just want to make shoes. I love the aspect of meeting people and have a space in LA and or New York or wherever we decide and have people come and visit and make beautiful products for them.
- [29:48]
Ben Walter
Kathleen, I want to ask you about one more thing before we go. You're an expert in brand building. You've done that for a long time. I meet small business owners all the time who say, my brand is good because I'm good. But when you start thinking about, okay, I really want to build a brand, that's more than just the people who know me and know my product. I want to build a brand that has equity, that's going to scale. What are some of the things that small business owners need to think about upfront?
- [30:14]
Kathleen Griffith
Brand building is one of the most important things in the world because otherwise you're a commodity. Right? And we know this. You work for one of the most iconic brands in the world. I consult for some of the most iconic brands in the world. And it's something that small business owners don't focus on enough. But you know, they're focused on growth hacks and performance marketing and social media. And, you know, to really build a brand earnestly, thoughtfully is so mission critical to then be able to differentiate and stand out from others. There are three things that anyone should really do when they're thinking about building a brand. I know you like threes.
- [30:49]
Ben Walter
I do.
- [30:50]
Kathleen Griffith
You can remember we could do two, but we'll do three. So what I like to tell people to focus on is one, having an enemy.
- [30:56]
Ben Walter
What does that mean?
- [30:57]
Kathleen Griffith
You've got to have an enemy in the world to stand out. Something you're pushing up against some wrong that you are trying to make right as a business. Like all great businesses have some sort of counter position to something that exists in the world. You want to have two is really a mission. Two, X, Y and Z. That's a great mission. You know, you're thinking about a legacy, something that you're doing 10, 20, 30 years from now. And then a big campaign idea would really be your step three in building a brand. Like, look, tone, feel. Of course, that's important. And a lot of small business owners can make very glossy, you know, sexy brands. But beyond that, like, what does your brand stand for in the world and how is it going to flex? And the greatest brands that we know, you know, the Apples of the world, the Nikes of the world, the JP Morgan Chases of the world, they maintain a consistent, persistent position in the world. You know, just going to shoes. I love Birkenstock as an analogy. They've just popped off, like, hugely.
- [31:58]
Ben Walter
My kids love their birds.
- [32:00]
Kathleen Griffith
They've got them. Okay.
- [32:01]
Ben Walter
Oh, yeah.
- [32:02]
Kathleen Griffith
And multiple or.
- [32:03]
Ben Walter
Yeah. And like, I hadn't seen them. So, you know, newsflash. I went to college in the early 90s, and they were very popular in the early 90s, and I hadn't seen them since then until my kids came home.
- [32:14]
Kathleen Griffith
Do you have a pair?
- [32:15]
Ben Walter
No.
- [32:15]
Kathleen Griffith
Why not?
- [32:16]
Ben Walter
I don't know. It's not my jam.
- [32:18]
Kathleen Griffith
Open feet. Not for you.
- [32:19]
Ben Walter
No, not my jam.
- [32:20]
Kathleen Griffith
But, like, they tapped into something. You know, their enemy was foot pain. It was like, why are we cramping our feet? So that was their enemy. And then their mission was really to create foot health for people, to rid the world of these awful, compromising shoes. And they've just maintained that positioning and they've exploded as a result of it.
- [32:41]
Ben Walter
Yeah. I had a mentor in my career who said to me once, you can't make up a brand. A brand has to represent what you already do. And then it gives you a megaphone to say it really loudly, which I thought was really interesting.
- [32:52]
Kathleen Griffith
That's so good.
- [32:53]
Ben Walter
Yeah, that's a good one.
- [32:54]
Kathleen Griffith
Yeah, that's a good one. I think that's all good storytelling. You know, going back to elevator pitches, which I think is important. George was a great storyteller. I'm curious to know what you think about this, but you really want to be able to stand for. And this is kind of a line with brand building. I think good elevator pitches have three things. They tell a big story about a problem that you're solving for in the world. The second thing they do is they have key trends or stats to kind of substantiate that broader cultural problem. And then, then, and only then do they introduce their solution, their product, their service, their differentiators. Their values. So all these things can be architected together and it's absolutely free to do this strategic work. That's what always amazes me, Ben. Like, right, everyone's just hustling, and it's like if you took two minutes to just also step out and craft some of these things that are pretty simple. You have new tools in your toolbox.
- [33:53]
Ben Walter
George, I want to end with a question that we asked to all our guests on this show, which is if you could give one piece of advice to our listeners, who are largely business owners and entrepreneurs, what would that one piece of advice be?
- [34:05]
George Esquivel
I would say treat your clients not as clients, but as investors. And everybody who's bought shoes from us and who sustained us through these hard times and even through the good times, if I was just to look at them as clients, I'd say, oh, they're a pain in the ass. They're difficult. They're all that. But when I look at them and they're like, no, they've invested in our brand, They've bought our product. They can afford all these other beautiful things, but they buy ours. That's what I would say. Treat them as investors, because you're going to look at them completely different. And they know when you treat them differently, and that's what keeps them coming back.
- [34:36]
Ben Walter
George, you have an amazing story and we are so privileged that you were willing to share it with us. Thank you for being here today on the show.
- [34:43]
George Esquivel
Thank you for having me. It was such an honor to tell the story and to talk with you. It's always fun going down memory lane.
- [34:50]
Ben Walter
Thank you to George Esquivel for speaking with us today. You can take a look at some of his work@georgesquivel.com or if you're in LA at the Grammy Museum. And Kathleen, we're excited to have you join for a few episodes this season.
- [35:03]
Kathleen Griffith
I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.
- [35:05]
Ben Walter
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Unshakeable. If you liked this episode, please rate and review it. We have so many more incredible small business stories coming to you this season and some amazing guest hosts. Kathleen will be back, as well as some new people you haven't met yet. On our next episode, we'll meet a woman who dreams of sustainable energy storage and built a business to make it a reality.
- [35:29]
Kathleen Griffith
When you come across something that you just cannot let it go, you want to read more about it and you want to understand more about it. Strangely enough, for me, that was batteries.
- [35:40]
Ben Walter
I'm Ben Walter and this is the Unshakables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. We'll see you back here soon.