Who You Work With: Multi-Axis Technologies

Summary

The Unshakeables: "Who You Work With: Multi-Axis Technologies" (June 30, 2026)

Podcast Overview

In this episode of The Unshakeables, hosts Ben Walter (CEO of Chase for Business) and Kathleen Griffith sit down with Daisy Kelly and Jay Simpson, founders of Multi-Axis Technologies in Kent, Washington. The conversation delves into the critical role of business partnerships, the realities of launching a capital-intensive manufacturing venture, and how adaptability and mutual trust enabled Daisy and Jay to survive make-or-break moments. The episode also marks Ben Walter’s final appearance as host.

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Main Theme

Finding the right business partner can be the difference between failure and enduring success—especially when starting a small business in a demanding industry like aerospace manufacturing. This episode explores how Daisy and Jay built Multi-Axis Technologies from scratch, navigated early disasters, and leveraged their complementary skills and trust in each other to create a sustainable, values-driven company.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Challenge of Partnership

• Initial Chemistry: Daisy and Jay met at Blue Origin, where coworkers routinely told them, "hey, you guys really should start your own business" ([05:26]).
• Creative Complementarity: Jay brings engineering and machining expertise, Daisy specializes in logistics and operations. Both value detail and planning.
• Open, Honest Communication: Their ability to "have open conversations, honest conversations... and problem solve really well together" is foundational (Daisy, [10:55]).
• Mutual Respect: "He focuses on my strength rather than my weakness and I do the same with him" (Daisy, [10:59]).
• Ben’s Contrarian Take: "The people I know who have a business partner are so grateful because it's not lonely... but it has to be the right person" (Ben, [11:29]).

2. The Messy Beginning: Starting Without a Plan

• No Grand Plan: "Oh, we wouldn't be a good example of that" (Daisy, [07:02]).
• Leap of Faith: "It literally was, 'Oh, I think it’s time, let’s do it.' And then next thing you know, we were like, 'Oh, what does it take to start this?'" (Daisy, [07:15]).
• Self-Financing Against the Odds: They drained personal savings, took home equity loans, and signed a five-year warehouse lease with zero customers lined up ([09:50]-[10:21]).
• Strong Belief: "We just had a strong desire. We knew well enough that we could make it" (Jay, [10:29]).

3. Scrappiness: Building a Machine Shop on a Shoestring

• MacGyver Mentality: They built or scavenged everything possible, from a coolant separator made from a Rubbermaid tub and Gatorade bottles ([16:16]) to a pallet jack rescued from the side of the road ([17:45]).
• Memorable Visual: Daisy, barely over 4 feet tall, stuffing a pallet jack into her Nissan Leaf ([18:23]).

4. The Stressful Realities of Early Operations

• No Customers, No Pipeline: The first month was "crickets," and their only sales experience was what they could improvise ([09:13]).
• Securing First Orders: Thanks to industry contacts, they slowly built a pipeline—only to realize with each finished job, "we’re unemployed tomorrow" ([19:34]).
• First Growth Pains: Their move from R&D prototypes to production work was forced by customer demand, not long-term planning ([20:29]).
• Financial Lumps: Kathleen coins the phrase "lumpy income" to describe irregular cash flow in contract manufacturing ([24:18]).

5. The Human Side: Managing Risk, Burnout, and Team Growth

• Total Commitment: They worked night shifts, sleeping on a breakroom couch to keep machines running during crunch times ([22:03]).
• Learning on the Fly: The realities of payroll, taxes, insurance, and HR all hit after they'd committed resources ([21:36]).
• Hiring Philosophy: "Our processes are set up so one person can actually do multiple things... we want to keep that small and agile" (Daisy, [26:29]).

6. Competing in American Manufacturing

• Up Against Giants: "We’re not competing with the machine shop down the street. We're competing with Boeing and Blue Origin for people" (Daisy, [29:03]).
• Cost Pressures: "All these things we had to go figure out were kind of eye opening... We've always felt the larger businesses get more of the cuts and the smaller businesses tend to pay those cuts" (Jay, [27:25]-[29:03]).
• Pride in Survival: Surviving the first year was marked with a steak dinner—"it's the small things like that" (Jay, [27:57]).

7. Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs

• Jay: "Take the risk. What’s the worst that’s going to happen? It fails and you have to go back and work for somebody else again. So do it. Just do it, right." ([30:34])
• Daisy: "Make sure you have a true passion for it... We want to bring up the next generation for manufacturing... we've actually homegrown two individuals and they're becoming phenomenal machinists" ([31:00]).

8. Philosophical Reflections on Timing and Self-Belief

• Ben: On making the leap—"It's not a rehearsal... Time to get going" ([33:32]-[33:47]).
• Kathleen: "You make a decision and then you make it the right decision. It's never too early or too late to start" ([32:35], [33:32]).
• Demystifying Founder Age: "The average age of founders right now is about 45... founders who are 50 when they start versus 30 are more likely to be successful" (Kathleen, [32:52]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Partnership:
  • "You need a Daisy in order to succeed, you need somebody to handle that side of the line. And I don't have to worry about it." — Jay ([11:44])
• On Taking the Leap:
  • "Let's see what happens. What's wrong with us trying? And if we fail, then so be it. Then at least we can say we tried." — Jay ([06:36])
  • "Mine would be make sure you have a true passion for it, no matter what it is." — Daisy ([31:00])
• On Entrepreneurship:
  • "I've heard way too many people in our position say I would have or could have or should have. It's do it. Don't wait for tomorrow... take the risk." — Jay ([30:34])
• On Scarcity:
  • "We don't have Uncle Jeff's money." — Jay ([09:47])
  • "I was like, look, you need to get in the car. Don't give me any problems." — Daisy, on persuading a pallet jack into her Leaf ([18:23])
• On American Manufacturing:
  • "I'm going to be honest. We're not competing with the machine shop down the street. We're competing with Boeing and Blue Origin for people. We will never be able to compete with them... But we're stubborn. We'll fight through it." — Daisy ([29:03])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:48 — The foundational partnership and its first test in the new business.
• 05:07 — How Daisy and Jay’s work history prepared them to disrupt the aerospace niche.
• 09:29 — The challenge of securing customers before even having a machine shop.
• 10:55 — Daisy and Jay reflect on why their partnership works.
• 16:16 — The MacGyver story: building a coolant separator from household scraps.
• 18:23 — Daisy’s epic quest to retrieve a roadside pallet jack.
• 22:03 — Early make-or-break moment: all-nighters to keep production on schedule.
• 24:18 — Kathleen introduces the concept of "lumpy income."
• 26:18 — Update: Multi-Axis is now 9 employees and aiming to stay agile.
• 27:25 — Challenges of starting a manufacturing business in America.
• 29:41 — Vision for sustainable, founder-independent business operations.
• 30:34 — Jay and Daisy’s top advice for future founders.

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Closing Thoughts

The episode highlights the real, unvarnished struggles of building a manufacturing company from the ground up—without deep pockets or institutional support. Daisy and Jay’s story is a testament to what’s possible through grit, resourcefulness, and the right business partnership. Their journey is filled with lessons on risk-taking, adaptability, and the importance of nurturing future manufacturing talent. The practical insights, candid stories, and mutual admiration between the founders make this a must-listen (or read) for any entrepreneur considering going it alone—or, even better, with a trusted partner.

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Final Reflections from the Hosts

• Ben Walter’s Farewell: Announces he is stepping down as host; thanks Kathleen and team for "championing small businesses" ([02:55]-[04:15]).
• Kathleen Griffith: Emphasizes the importance of mature founders and encourages listeners: "It's never too early or too late to start" ([32:52]).

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Recommended for: Anyone curious about the nuts-and-bolts challenges of starting a business, especially in an industry with high barriers to entry—and those seeking perspective on the unsung value of truly complementary partnerships.

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Transcript

[A]

If you've been listening to the Unshakeables for any amount of time, you know how much it takes to start a small business. You may not need a specific plan or a lot of cash up front. You may not even have a world shattering idea. But if I know one thing, it's that who you work with can make or break your business, even if everything else is going great. Daisy Kelly and Jay Simpson started their company, Multiaxis Technologies, after years of working together at Blue Origin, an aerospace company that was founded and is owned by Jeff Bezos. They were off to a good start, kicking up plenty of projects in R and D and production, but it didn't take long before their partnership was put to the test.

[B]

One of our machines was booked back to back. There was just no opportunity for any failure or downtime. And we had an issue with the machine. We would take shifts through the whole night. We had a little couch here. We would sleep on that couch and one person would monitor and run the machine and keep it running. And then it's like tap out, right? Your turn to watch a machine. I need to go sleep. And it couldn't have been a worse start.

[A]

Honestly, in any business, there are the moments that make or break a partnership. Will your partner fall apart or rise to the occasion doing whatever it takes to save the company? On today's episode, we'll answer that question. Welcome to the Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business. There's nothing small about the impact small businesses have on our country. Every day I hear from owners who are not only fueling our economy, but also shaping the character of our communities. Yet too often you tell us about the hurdles you face. Regulatory red tape, tough access to capital, and the constant challenge of finding resources to grow. These aren't just headlines, they're your stories and they matter deeply to us. I don't use the unshakeables to talk about us. This podcast is for you. But it's important that we also bring to you important resources that may help, like our recent American Dream initiative. This is a new effort by JPMorgan Chase to help put the American Dream back within reach for more small business owners everywhere. Through expanded capital and coaching, advocating for smart policies that matter to you, and continuing to innovate around services that help you run your businesses. End to end, we plan to support 10 million small businesses over the next several years. All right, Kathleen, it's so nice to have you in person this time.

[C]

It's been a minute.

[A]

It's been a minute. We waited for the humidity to bring you here.

[C]

Sure did. But it's a special day, and I wouldn't miss it for the world.

[D]

You've got some news.

[A]

I do have some news. So I have been asked at JPMorgan Chase to take a new role, which I'm very excited about. But it does mean that I will no longer be the host of the Unshakables, which is a little weird because I've been here since the beginning, and I will miss it terribly, and I will miss working with you, and I'll miss the whole team. But it's in good hands. My colleague, Stevie Barron, who I've worked with for many years, is gonna take my host position on the show. He's taking over my role at. And I'm super excited that the show's gonna continue, and I'm proud of what we've built here, and I'm proud of the small businesses we've been able to champion and highlight, and I know I'm leaving it in great hands.

[C]

New chapter for you. A new chapter for the show. And I have to say, I know

[A]

you're not gonna love this, but I'm probably not.

[C]

You're already squirming. I know your skin is already crawling, but you are the definition of what it means to be a servant leader. You know, I've been around so many different leaders, and I've never seen someone who is so present and treats everyone exactly the same on the team. And I just wan. Thank you for bringing me along for the ride because it's been a lot of fun, and I've learned a lot from you. I really have.

[A]

That's really kind. Yes. I'm really uncomfortable.

[C]

I knew you needed. We got that out of the way.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

We got that out of the way.

[A]

But you have been a terrific co host. This really has been a labor of love for me. I'm just incredibly proud of the content that we've built. I think we stayed true to our mission from the beginning. We've had an unbelievable team behind us since day one. This doesn't just happen. I know it seems easy when you're us and you just show up and you make it happen, but the amount of work that goes into that. So to the whole team, to you, to everyone, I just want to say thank you, and I will still be an avid listener of the show.

[C]

All right, We've got a good episode here to dive into, and I felt like this was the perfect you episode to end on.

[A]

Also, anything that's about making stuff, I'm going to like it on today's episode. Multiaxis technologies from Kent, Washington. We've had all sorts of founder pairings on the show. Siblings, husband and wife, colleagues, doctors, and business experts. And what makes those pairings work is a little bit of skill separation, and the rest feels like alchemy. Like we mentioned at the beginning, Daisy and Jay met, like so many of us do at work.

[B]

When I had started there, there was, I don't know, maybe 60 employees. And I think when Daisy started, she was maybe employee 400 or somewhere in there, Right? So still very small comparative to where it is today.

[A]

As they got to know each other, they learned that they worked great together and all of their coworkers noticed.

[D]

We've had people say, hey, you guys really should start your own business, and you kind of brush it off. You don't think too much about it. I mean, it's scary.

[A]

And that's a big investment, especially in their industry. Daisy and Jay work in aerospace manufacturing. That means highly technical, specialized machines and software. And all of that means money. So for now, they just kept working together as colleagues. But as time went on, the conversations shifted.

[D]

You have those rough days and you're like, oh, I'm so done.

[A]

Over time, unfortunately, there were more rough days than good ones.

[D]

There was a lot of changes. There were days that were great days for me and not so great days for him, and then there were days that were more challenging for me.

[B]

Those kind of conversations kept creeping up more and more.

[A]

Then the idea that was a mental escape from the daily grind started to take shape.

[D]

We kind of talked about it on and off.

[B]

We'd had enough of, I'll say, the political mess.

[A]

And one day, the stars aligned.

[D]

One day over coffee, it just happened to be aligned. That at the same time, we were both like, okay, I think we're done. Let's do something different for ourselves.

[B]

Let's see what happens. What's wrong with us trying? And if we fail, then so be it. Then at least we can say we tried.

[A]

They gave their notice and off they went. Now Jay's background is in engineering and machining, and Daisy's is in logistics and operations. Both of them are very detail oriented and had been talking about starting their own business for years. I had to ask about their plan once they finally struck out.

[D]

Oh, we wouldn't be a good example of that.

[A]

AKA they didn't have one. Which was quite unusual for Daisy.

[B]

She is a Full on planner. She will plan everything down to the nth degree.

[D]

But we kind of just did it off the seat of our pants. It literally was, oh, I think it's time, let's do it. And then next thing you know, we were like, oh, what does it take to start this?

[A]

So off into the nothingness. And turning to everyone's favorite doctor, assistant and business consultant, Google, a lot of searching.

[D]

Oh, I know what we need. We probably should buy some tools. Well, what kind of tools? I don't know. We kind of use these. And it was very freeform.

[A]

While the steps may be freeform, they always knew their niche and their goal for the company. They decided to focus on research and development, which helped them move in one specific direction.

[B]

This quick one off, high mix, low volume, R and D type work, there was not a lot of that going on.

[A]

In layman's terms, Daisy and Jay fill a crucial piece of the aerospace industry that's prevalent in Washington State. High mix, low, low volume means that they want to be called. When an engineer in an aerospace company is testing out new ideas, they want to make prototypes or test out concept for them by making one or two of a specific part. They move fast, wrap projects quickly, experiment and move on to the next one. That's what they had their mindset on when they started Multi Axis Technologies.

[B]

We figured we could be a little bit disruptive in that sense.

[A]

They figured they could do that well because they'd been doing it together for years.

[B]

There's a reason why people don't do a lot of it because it takes a lot of resources. You have to have a programmer, you have to have a setup, you have to have a schedule to where there's room to manipulate it. And you've got to have somebody managing that schedule constantly. And so we had done this in our previous employer and we were really good at it. And that's that disruption piece that we talked about.

[A]

They were ready to disrupt the industry. But at the beginning, there were no earthquakes, just crickets.

[D]

The first month we started, we were like, okay, we opened the business, we have no customers. And I've never been in sales and marketing, so it's not like something I know how to go do. It's not like you create a flyer and you go door to door to business, say, hey, I have a machine shop.

[A]

And if you tell people you have a machine shop, you actually have to have a machine shop. So that meant they had to build a machine shop. And just one thing, those are very

[B]

expensive capital startups for something that we do is ridiculously high.

[A]

Not the same kind of bankroll as your former boss.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So you know we don't have Uncle Jeff's money. Right.

[D]

So really we just used our own personal money. We had money set aside we. For personal things. Never even thinking about it. We actually took loans out of our house. He did his and I did mine.

[A]

And they found a warehouse space.

[B]

We had a space and we. I don't even want to say foolishly. Right. But I would say passion driven was probably the better term. We signed a lease for five years and we had no customers.

[A]

Now, I can't in good conscience recommend that a new business go out and sign a five year lease with no customers. But there are exceptions to every rule.

[B]

I think we just had a strong desire. We knew well enough that we could make it. And that was the biggest thing.

[A]

That belief in each other, the partnership they built together was their biggest safety net. Even in the face of what seemed like risky decisions to focus on R and D or to sign a five year lease. Finding the right partner can make all the difference in the success of a company. Daisy, what made Jay the right business partner?

[D]

For as long as I've known him, we've been able to have open conversations, honest conversations, and I think we just problem solve really well together. There's a balance of he focuses on my strength rather than my weakness and I do the same with him and we try to fill in those gaps.

[A]

So, Jay, what makes Daisy the right business partner?

[B]

What are you, 4:10? 4:11.

[D]

4:11?

[B]

Yeah. 4:11 of just tenacity. I get asked this a lot. Why? Because everybody tells you to avoid having a business partner.

[A]

For what it's worth, I always give people the exact opposite advice.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I say your number one priority should be to find a business partner.

[B]

Really? Yeah. All of ours has been the opposite.

[A]

I'm shocked by that. The people I know who have a business partner are so grateful because it's not lonely. They have someone else to rely on their shared responsibility. But the flip side is it has to be the right person.

[B]

Correct? I will tell everyone that asked me that question. You need a Daisy in order to succeed, you need somebody to handle that side of the line. And I don't have to worry about it. There's never a out of alignment issue. If there is, we have a direct conversation about it. It gets solved very quickly. And those are very far and few between. It started that way from the very beginning and it hasn't changed.

[A]

Kathleen, let's stop here. A moment. The story is classic in so many ways. Two very smart people who are very good at what they do, trying to go out on their own and realizing that things are so much harder than they thought.

[C]

Not everyone gets a daisy.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And when I first met them, I said, oh, is this another couple who's coming on the show? And they said, no, they're just friends and business partners. And I said, that's great. We don't see a lot of man, woman, business partner friends. Like, we haven't had that before.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So that was interesting. And I think they really do compliment each other in a way that I couldn't understand when I met them outside, versus when I saw them start to talk about the business and the way they would ping pong the questions back and forth, the amount of both mutual respect that's there, but also the respect for what the other is good at. It's incredibly simpatico.

[C]

And you've always said this from day one, you need a business partner if you can have one. I was shocked, shocked by that. Right. As was I. And I've told you this before, that's my biggest regret is not having taken on a business partner early days. And I think we don't talk enough about it. There was a great HBR study that 60 to 65% of businesses fail because of founder conflict with their business partner. So it's really in the choosing. How do you have that, like trial run where you still have the training reels on before you actually say, this is my person. How do you do that?

[A]

Well, to quote Jerry Seinfeld, it's not about the finding of the partner. It's the keeping of the partner. That's the essence of the partner.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So look, I think there is no substitute for time. There's some things that are very difficult to know in advance. It's difficult to know how people behave under stress in advance. It's difficult to know what the push button issues are when the chips are down. But not always. If I were going to go into business with someone, I would say, Kathleen, I would encourage you to do your research on me. And while I will give you some names, you should do your own research and you should talk to people who know me or who know people who know me and do that work and find out what you can about me and ask me anything about those things and I'll do the same for you because that's a really vulnerable place to put yourself in.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you can't be vulnerable with your business partner, it's not gonna work anyway.

[C]

And what happens if you uncover dirt? Do you have that conversation to give them the chance to completely air out the dirty laundry?

[A]

Completely. There's two sides to every story. But when something was tough, does someone immediately get defensive about the whole situation? Are they honest about. Yeah, look, I wasn't happy about that and I have my own views, but if I'm honest with myself, here are the things I could have done. But how does someone describe that situation? It says a lot. And it says a lot about how self reflective they are. It says a lot about how they handle themselves and what they value. Find out from people you either trust or people you know trust and get that point in.

[D]

I love this.

[C]

It's like a CIA mission completely.

[A]

Let's go back to Daisy and Jay. Now that they had their space, they had to fill their shop. No equipment meant no orders. But cash was tight from the beginning.

[B]

We were buying stuff off of offerup consistently. Desks, chairs.

[D]

The kitchen table that's in the break room was my dining room table at home. Plates and bowls. I think some of them were from his house and some of them from my house.

[B]

The only thing that we really bought that was new was our laptops.

[A]

And what they couldn't buy, they'd make. Tell me about the coolant separator. I want to hear the sound story.

[B]

So cool it on a machine tool is what basically lubricates the cutting tool and it helps cool it blows away the chips, etc. Right. So it's in pretty much nearly every CNC machine that's out there. It's a liquid lubricant and it flows through and it recycles internally in the machine. So it's got a sump, a pump, it pumps it out through the machine and then it recycles. So coolant separator basically keeps the floating oil out of the coolant. It sucks the oil off the top and. And that system alone, gosh, they're up there like $800 now for a system with a pump, a screen, a filter and all these things. Right. Floats.

[A]

It sounds like a reasonably complex piece of machinery.

[B]

It is. And $800 seems like a pretty good investment based on the capital investment of the machine. But when you don't have money, you have to figure out means. And we came up with a grand idea. It was like a rubber made container. We drilled a couple holes, one on the side, one on top of the. And then zip tied some Gatorade bottles together as floats floating on the top with a Little screen pump, and we got a pond pump from Lowe's for, like, eight bucks or something. And we were able to use that to basically suck the oil off the top, run it through the Rubbermaid bucket, and it would separate in there. And then you could take a shop vac and vacuum off the oil on the head. And we ran that for probably a year at least.

[A]

Super MacGyvery.

[B]

It's MacGyverish.

[A]

They also needed machines and complicated machines at that, Things like mills and lathes. These things were far too complicated to build even for someone as MacGyver's Jay. That they were also far too expensive to buy new. They range in price from thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars each.

[B]

The first two machines we bought were used. They were demo machines. And I say used in the sense of they had very, very low hours.

[D]

We had a used forklift, really good

[A]

shape, and whatever they didn't have to buy, they just didn't buy.

[D]

I was like, okay, what's the next biggest expense? And he says, well, we're gonna need a pallet jack. We'll have to figure out how we do that, because we need a pallet jack to pull material around.

[A]

And then the stars aligned again.

[D]

I've got him on the phone. I said, wait, Jay, I think there's a pallet jack on the side of the road. And he's like, wait, what? I was like, hold on, I'm gonna pull over. There's a pallet jack there. So I pulled over, and this is on a main road, and it's a fairly large pallet jack. I was like, I think it works. And I jacked it up, and it went down. I said, oh, there's a wheel missing. So I video called, and he's like, oh, I can fix that. I was like, that's great. I'm gonna take it home. Now. I drive a little Nissan Leaf.

[A]

For those of you listening, daisy is not 6 foot 4. So I just need to paint a little bit of an image of Daisy wrestling with this pallet jack on the side of the road. So keep going.

[D]

So I open up the little hatchback, and they tell you, you got adrenaline. It's gonna happen. I hung up with him. I was like, I gotta get this in the car first. I talked to it. I was like, look, you need to get in the car. Don't give me any problems. Picked up the pallet jack, stuffed it in the back of my car, had the hatchback lid open, and I drive home. I'm probably three miles away from home. I Called Jay and he's like, don't tell me what you just did. I said, well, it's in the back of the car.

[B]

I hopped onto Amazon, ordered up a repair kit for it, had it all fixed up, and that pallet jack is still in use today. So it just took a lot of being scrappy.

[A]

Now that they had a shop, they had to fill it with orders.

[D]

We were fortunate enough that we knew people from other companies that have branched out to other places that we were able to reach out to.

[A]

And before too long, they got one.

[D]

And of course, we were super excited about it.

[A]

But Daisy was also realistic about what that meant.

[D]

I'll never forget, Jay came in, he was super excited. He got it done. It was a pretty complex job. And he was like, ah, I got

[A]

it done, you know, woo.

[D]

And I just looked at him and I said, huh, you know, we're unemployed tomorrow.

[B]

I'm like, what do you mean we're unemployed?

[D]

And I said, well, we don't have any more work tomorrow. There was no other jobs, right? Because when you go to work, someone else is filling your pipeline. It's just us two. And he kind of looked at me and he goes, oh.

[B]

I was like, well, there's tons of organization to do. We've got machines now on the floor. We've got to get our tools in order. We've got to get our benches organized.

[D]

I was like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. But in the back of my head, I'm panicking. You know, we got lease payments, we have bills, we got all of this stuff.

[A]

She didn't have to worry for too long.

[D]

That Monday, I walked in super stressed out, and by noon we had landed three jobs.

[A]

Their R and D work was going well, but at some point they realized it wasn't sustainable. So they came to a moment every small business owner faces. They threw out their plans and they pivoted.

[D]

One of our customers said, I need you to go to production. We're like, well, we don't know if we really want to do that. And they kept saying, no, we really need you to do this.

[A]

And they're a customer, and they're a

[D]

customer between the customer, the stars, whatever you want to call it, lined up because the guy next to us said, hey, I'm going to retire and I'm going to open up my space if you want it. So then Jay calls our distributor friend. He's like, hey, just checking to see what kind of machines you have. You know, this is kind of coming up. And he goes, oh, I have this for you. So everything just lined up.

[A]

The universe was telling you to do it.

[D]

It was telling us to do it right. So we got ahold of our customer and we were like, all right, so we're going to go to production with you.

[A]

It must make the revenue a little less lumpy, right?

[D]

It does. It smooths out a few things. From a financial standpoint, the cash flow

[B]

of that allows you to bring on people.

[A]

They did bring on people to keep up with the work they planned on one, that first year, or at least

[B]

half of one, we were expecting to have a half of an employee, so a part time. And I think within the first five, six months, we already had one full time employee.

[A]

And having employees triggers things like paperwork, insurance and scheduling.

[D]

We were focused on what does it take to build a business. And when we came down to the equipments and the supplies to do it, nowhere in there that we think, oh, we were gonna have to pay quarterly taxes or we're gonna have to do any of those things. That was like an afterthought.

[A]

But they forged ahead, scrappy and determined, until they had a few big jobs lined up to make everything work. They scheduled their machines back to back. If the machines kept rolling, they were making enough money to keep going.

[B]

One of our machines that was scheduled had no wiggle room in sight. And we had an issue with the machine. And you know, as a small company, you can't call the maintenance department. You are the maintenance department. This was a moment of, what the heck are we going to do? We put an action plan in place that says, here's what we're going to do to do our best to recover. Seven day work weeks, as many hours through the day as we could put in. We were actually pulling shifts where I think at the time there was three of us working. And we had a little couch here. We would sleep on that couch and one person would monitor and run the machine. And then it's like, tap out, right? Your turn to watch machine. I need to go sleep. And we did that for several days just to get caught back up.

[A]

And because the machines were scheduled back to back, that downtime didn't just delay that order, it changed everything that followed.

[E]

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[A]

to bring you back in here. There's so much to discuss. They had a clear idea of what their company would be. Then they moved into something they explicitly said they didn't want to do. And that came with complications.

[C]

You had such a great term lumpy income. I've never heard that before. You know, they were trying to get to more stability, like it was just popcorn.

[A]

This happens often with wholesale type businesses. You tend to get orders in chunks and so the income that comes can be lumpy. And it's not like a retail business where yeah, it goes up and down and the fourth quarter's bigger because it's Christmas and everybody's shopping and then it's kind of quiet in the first quarter.

[C]

Got back to school and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

These things have a natural ebb and flow, but they're off of some baseline. When you are in a business like that where you might be selling a part or two parts, you, you might get no orders for two months and then five orders in a week. And so you have to be able to prepare to ramp up and ramp down. And you have to manage your balance sheet and your cash flow to be able to handle that.

[C]

And your team too. Like, how do you keep your team occupied and motivated when there's no work to be done? Because there are those fallow periods and so are you cleaning machinery? Are you doing a free project in the hopes that it will convert down the line just to establish a new relationship? People don't like to sit on their hands for too long.

[A]

No. And it hard for the owners to do the proper demand planning. So that's one of the reasons why I encourage people to have diversity in their businesses. It's not just because obviously if you become too dependent on one client, you can not have a business one day. Yes, that's the biggest risk. But the other thing is when you're spread out amongst more clients, it's literally a law of mathematics. When you're spread out over more and you add those things up and then divide by that, you end up getting a smoothed curve in your demand over time. And that is really important for your ability to hire and have confidence in those hires to do demand planning. So and so wants to go on vacation. Can you handle it? So the more diversity you have in your client base and in your order base, the easier it is to do those sort of more evolved operational optimizations.

[C]

Another good tip. So many businesses need more diversification.

[A]

Yeah. So let's hear how they're faring now. So how many employees do you have now?

[D]

There's nine of us total.

[A]

Okay. And are you still hiring?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

How big do you think you'll get in the near term?

[D]

I always say no more than 15. And I think that's kind of where we want to be.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Our processes are set up so one person can actually do multiple things. Most everybody at the shop is probably running two or three machines and we want to keep that small and agile.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Everyone kind of focuses on you want to grow your business, which is what we want to do. But I'm really big on. I don't want to grow our business and take on more processes. I'd rather focus on our core, which is machining.

[A]

I want to ask you a slightly different question. One of the reasons I love having manufacturers on the show is we believe certainly at my company, that a manufacturing renaissance is important for the country, for our global competitive positioning for geopolitical security for a whole host of reasons that I'm sure speak for themselves. Tell us about starting a manufacturing company in America. I mean, you have to compete with Asia, I'm sure, and some of the lower cost operations that exist there. We have different environmental laws and different other things and we don't always make it easy. So talk to us a little bit about that.

[B]

Yeah, the start was very challenging. It's easy to come out and say I'm going to start a machine shop and lots of ambition.

[A]

Just don't make it near me.

[B]

Yeah, it quickly gets realized how difficult it is and the competitive nature of it. And I think you hit the nail on the head earlier on when you said the lowest cost bid. And that tends to drive a lot of the decision making versus, you know, we call it the customer experience or the quality and things of that nature. There's not a lot of shops in our area that we compete with, with the market we're doing. But globally there is. And then it really comes down to the overhead costs, right? Taxes and things that are levied upon you. Those tend to be really challenging. There's no book that says you want to be a business owner, do these things, you kind of learn on your own. So it's really challenging to start. But there's more satisfaction when you actually get through the gauntlet and it works. And you've made it that first year. I remember our first year, we made it. We went out and had a steak dinner because we were so excited. We made it a whole year and we were able to pay our taxes. It's the small things like that. But to start it, there's all kinds of challenges setting up accounts. You can't get a loan unless you've been established for X amount of time or you have three years worth of tax returns. And. And so all these things that we had to go figure out that were kind of eye opening. Right? Because if you hear the masses talk about, oh, small business gets a lot of things, we have always felt the larger businesses get more of the cuts and the smaller businesses tend to pay those cuts because we don't have 500,000 employees or 500 employees. Right. And so we don't fall into those buckets of tax cuts, so to speak. And so it's been challenging.

[D]

That's been very challenging. And every small business is different. But it's an eye opener to see how much it costs to have a small business. I'm going to be honest. You know, we're not competing with the machine shop down the street. We're competing with Boeing and Blue Origin for people. We will never be able to compete with them. I mean, we lost a guy, he went to Boeing for $12 more an hour. We can't pay that. He got free medical. We can't cover that. But we're stubborn. We'll fight through it and do what we got to do to make it work.

[A]

So where do you see it going from here? You know, if you want to cap it at 15 employees, keep it small. What does amazing success look like within those constraints?

[B]

For us, it's working on the business and not in the business.

[A]

Say more about that.

[B]

So right now I'm programming and planning and running machines and she's doing all the financials and running machines as well and ordering material. So we're working in the business. Right. At the same time we have to work on the business. We have to get new customers and do all this engagement. But we want to get to a point where we can pass that baton and the business runs independently without us there. And now. We can go and do more things like this or go do customer engagements and grow the business from the outside versus from the inside, if that makes sense.

[A]

As long as you still get to go on the shop floor every now and then, right?

[B]

Oh, yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm going to end with a question that we ask to every guest on the show. I'll give each of you a chance to answer. If you could give one piece of advice to someone who's thinking about starting a business, what would it be?

[B]

I've heard way too many people in our position say I would have or could have or should have. It's do it. Don't wait for tomorrow, obviously. Don't go when it just completely blind. Do your research, do your homework. Right. Because it is an investment. But take the risk. What's the worst that's going to happen? We say this all the time. The worst that's going to happen is it fails and you have to go back and work for somebody else again. So do it. Just do it right.

[A]

Dizzy.

[D]

Mine would be make sure you have a true passion for it, no matter what it is. If you're passionate about skiing, you're going to go skiing. If you're passionate about owning a machine shop, you're going to want to do it right. I'm going to be honest. Was I passionate about a machine shop? Absolutely not. Again, I'm not a machinist. I'm a supply chain person. The idea of owning a business and growing it, oh, what a passion there. I love doing that. The other thing that we're both very passionate about is we want to bring up the next generation for manufacturing. We talk about it all the time because the United States is hurting for manufacturing.

[A]

Oh, I hear it from clients all the time.

[D]

And it is getting worse as we continue because we're continuing to grow. We have changed our path. Instead of trying to hire someone that's got the experience, we've actually homegrown two individuals and they're becoming phenomenal machinists. And did they have a machinist background? No, they had a passion, but they had no one that was willing to teach them. And so that's something that when Jay talks about not working in the business, but on the business, that's one of the things we want to do. And so for me, it's really make sure you truly have a passion for what it is that you want to do, because that's going to drive you to do anything.

[A]

Awesome. Well, Daisy, Jay, thank you for being here. This was fantastic. We appreciate you coming on the show.

[D]

Thank you very much.

[A]

I really liked where they ended, Kathleen, particularly Jay's advice about just do it right. Because I kept asking him, how did you know it was the right time? And I think he would say, in retrospect, it was always the right time. I just had to do it. I'm putting words in his mouth a little bit.

[C]

I love the quote. You make a decision and then you make it the right decision. I think there's this misunderstanding that all of a sudden you're gonna have this moment where you know it's time to make the leap and the clouds are gonna part and then you just.

[A]

That's only true when they make the movie, right?

[C]

It's just not true. And I really believe that a lot of times it's born out of some sort of like, catastrophe or breakdown or you can't bear the pain anymore and so you decide it's something that you wanna go run at. What I liked is they were mature founders. And so I think that's another thing that's really powerful. Like, the average age of founders right now is about 45. It's not young 20 somethings. And there was a great study out of MIT that founders who are 50 when they start versus 30 are more likely to be successful. So I think for our listeners, it's never too early or too late to start.

[A]

No, if you have the passion and you have the energy, you should do it and you should do it now. You should do it now. You're not getting any younger. Someone said to me, you know, I was trying to decide whether I should do something or not. And he looked at me and said, how old are you? And I told him, he goes, it's not a rehearsal. Time to get going.

[C]

This is it.

[A]

This is it.

[C]

And I love that they bet on themselves in such an ambitious category. Like, this is not for the faint of heart to go into manufacturing and aerospace and something that's traditionally capital intensive and.

[A]

And something the country so desperately, desperately needs.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, this was another good one. Thanks for joining me, Kathleen.

[C]

It's been honestly such an honor to do this with you.

[A]

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Unshakeables. If you liked this episode, please rate and review it. If you know someone else who would love the show, feel free to share it. With them. And thank you for spending the last three seasons seasons with me. I've enjoyed doing the show and I'm going to miss spending these episodes with all of you. I'm Ben Walter, and this is the Unshakeables from Chase for Business and Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. We'll see you back here soon.