Podcast Summary: The Urbanist – "What energy should we take into 2026 in order to face climate change head on?"

Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Andrew Tuck
Guests: Dr. Gary Yohei (Nobel Peace Prize recipient, economist, climate policy expert); Ollie Marshall (editor, Cooling Towers, 20th Century Society)

Overview

This episode of The Urbanist explores two intersecting themes:

1. How we should approach the coming years with regard to climate change, societal optimism versus hope, policy shifts, and the evolving economic paradigm around climate risk (with Dr. Gary Yohei).
2. The cultural and architectural significance of cooling towers, iconic but vanishing relics from the industrial era, and the struggle to preserve their memory (with Ollie Marshall).

The episode sets a thoughtful and pragmatic tone, balancing climate urgency with nuanced hope. It also reflects on how collective memory and heritage shape our urban identity in a time of rapid transition.

Segment 1: Facing Climate Change in 2026 – Insights from Dr. Gary Yohei

Evolving Climate Debate and Policy Context

• Discussion opens on how climate leadership is shifting (Bill Gates' recent commentaries; US policy pullbacks) and the lens through which complex global problems are viewed.
• Dr. Yohei points out that issues like poverty and climate are wrongly “put in silos”:
  • Quote: "He [Bill Gates] put them in silos and didn't emphasize the degree to which they're all interrelated and that good, effective climate policy...has positive implications for the other things that he was worried about." [03:02]
• Critique of single-issue focus (the "Bjorn Lomborg challenge") in global problem-solving.
• Emphasizes the interconnectedness of global challenges—climate, welfare, and vulnerability.

Communicating Hope vs. Optimism

• Andrew Tuck asks how to engage people constructively in a climate-fatigued, divided world.
• Dr. Yohei elaborates on the importance of hope:
  • Quote: "There's a big difference between hope and optimism. Optimism I don't have with respect to moving forward into 2026…But the hope part allows you to think about what you could do...that might make a difference." [06:35]
• The antidote to despair is meaningful action, even without guaranteed outcomes.
• “We can't use obstinance of some who happen to be in high powers as an excuse not to think about other people around the world and try to do something about that.” [07:25]

Economics of Climate Change: Risk Management, Not Cost-Benefit

• The discussion shifts to market versus governmental or transnational solutions:
  • Dr. Yohei: “It's an all hands on deck issue. The economics approach...has evolved into an iterative risk management approach.” [08:24]
• Need for adaptive policies responsive to new data; mid-course corrections are a strength, not a flaw (cites COVID example with Dr. Fauci).
  • “He didn't lie at the beginning...But we get new information.” [09:05]
• Shareholders’ and market forces’ roles: Incorporating climate risks into investment decisions is one lever, especially in Europe.

Surprising Leadership and Global Dynamics: China’s Role

• China’s unexpected shift: flat/falling emissions; leadership in renewable technology.
  • “They've noticed that by taking a lead in providing the world...alternative clean energy sources like wind and solar...developing countries...have seen a way to skip the fossil fuel step in the development pathway.” [11:39]
• The value for developing countries: reduced financial vulnerability, home-grown energy sovereignty.

Economic Impacts of Climate Disasters

• Dr. Yohei laments that even high-profile disasters (e.g., California wildfires) haven’t shifted action as expected.
  • Quote: “California fires were...the paragon of what we thought might change people’s minds...And it didn’t happen.” [13:26]
• People see the disasters but struggle to connect them to climate change or policy.
• Urges listeners to trust their intuition about the frequency and intensity of extreme events—science “has your back”.
  • “Just be confident the science has your back. You're right. The climate is changing and it's getting worse.” [15:38]

Guidance for Individuals and Leaders: Navigating Uncertainty

• Final advice: Awareness, intuition, internalize risk. Think in “welfare, personal, business-wise, community-wise...some in dollars, some in human lives, some in just personal security...” [16:42]
• Investment warning: Fossil fuel markets are shrinking; opportunity now lies in carbon-free energy and supporting technologies.
• For environmentalists: Don’t be discouraged by regressive policies; global investment patterns already favor renewables.
• Dr. Yohei: “Take notice of that and take advantage of it and process the information yourself.” [17:52]

Segment 2: The Disappearing Cooling Towers – An Interview with Ollie Marshall

Understanding Cooling Towers’ Role and Iconic Status

• Ollie Marshall explains: Cooling towers (hyperboloid thermal towers) are the dramatic, functional structures seen at power plants, up to 400 feet tall and only 7 inches thick at the shell.
  • “They're a real tour de force of engineering, you know, the sort of poetry of applied mathematics in concrete.” [19:17]
• Cooling towers exist worldwide, not just in the UK.
• The visible “smoke” is water vapor, not pollution.

Cooling Towers as Industrial Heritage

• Cooling towers are compared to mills, gasometers, and chimneys—functional structures now considered landmarks.
  • Quoting Anthony Gormley: “Man-made volcanoes or the Stonehenge of the Carbon Age.” [21:06]
• As the Carbon Age ends, there’s value in preserving some as memory and legacy.

The Book "Cooling Towers" – A Record Before Disappearance

• The project began as an exhibition, now a book featuring archival and contemporary photography, essays, and creative works referencing cooling towers.
• Rapid disappearance: UK had 250 towers at their 1960s peak; now down to 37 at about 8 sites, with 6–8 lost annually.
  • “By the end of this decade, they will all be gone.” [23:19]

Loss, Local Engagement, and the Human Dimension

• Emotional impact: Demolitions attract attention, but the resulting absence is deeply felt.
  • “There is this profound sense of loss...they were the kind of waypoint markers in the landscape by which we calibrate our journeys and where we are.” [24:07]
• Communities have mixed feelings—combining pride, nostalgia, and pain at economic decline.

Reimagining and Reusing Cooling Towers

• Creative reuses internationally:
  • Germany: “Wunderland Kalke” amusement park with telescoping rides.
  • South Africa: Extreme sports center with climbing and bungee jumping.
  • Italy: Heritage attractions and office space (Milan’s Pirelli HQ).
  • China: Basketball courts in repurposed towers.
• New potential: “Data centers and AI farms” could utilize the cooling properties of the structures.

Preservation Challenges

• No current legal protection/listing for UK cooling towers; the focus is on photographic documentation instead.
• Marshall's goal: Preserve at least one representative set of towers for heritage/adaptive re-use.
  • “It would be completely unrealistic and undesirable to try and keep all of them. But we think one representative set...should be preserved and reused.” [28:43]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On climate action & hope:
  “The hope part allows you to think about what, you could do to spend your time that might make a difference and use that to create the foundation for a meaningful life.”
  – Dr. Gary Yohei [06:50]
• On interconnectedness of global problems:
  “There's nothing that says you have to do these things one at a time or focus entirely on one thing or another.”
  – Dr. Gary Yohei [04:18]
• On iconic industrial relics:
  “Anthony Gormley has called them man made volcanoes or the Stonehenge of the Carbon Age.”
  – Ollie Marshall [21:09]
• On the loss of cooling towers:
  “Afterwards there is this profound sense of loss...they were really powerful physical symbols.”
  – Ollie Marshall [24:07]
• On adaptive, iterative climate policy:
  “We can't go after them the way people went after Dr. Fauci when new information caused him to suggest different ways of approaching Covid...We get new information.”
  – Dr. Gary Yohei [09:05]
• On renewables and market shifts:
  “Fossil fuel markets are contracting, carbon free energy source markets are expanding and there's money to be made there.”
  – Dr. Gary Yohei [16:59]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:52] — Dr. Gary Yohei discusses Gates, US policy, and interconnected risks.
• [06:01] — Hope vs. optimism in the face of climate crises.
• [08:16] — Evolution of climate economics toward risk management.
• [11:20] — China’s role in the global clean energy transition.
• [13:20] — California wildfires and the muted response to economic disaster.
• [16:38] — Dr. Yohei’s advice for navigating climate risk personally and professionally.
• [19:06] — Cooling towers explained: structure, purpose, and poetry.
• [21:06] — Cooling towers as industrial monuments per Anthony Gormley.
• [23:19] — Imminent disappearance of towers; emotional responses from communities.
• [25:38] — Repurposing towers: international examples and imaginative futures.
• [28:25] — Preservation philosophy: striving for representative conservation, not wholesale.

Final Thoughts

This episode stands out for its blend of pragmatic climate guidance and cultural reflection. Dr. Yohei’s insights urge listeners not for naive optimism but for actionable hope, based in interconnected challenges and adaptive, risk-based thinking. The segment on cooling towers, meanwhile, invites listeners to consider what parts of the industrial past deserve preservation as communities and energy systems evolve.

For urbanists, policymakers, and citizens, the show is both a grounding in today’s tough choices and a call to recognize the value (and sometimes the pain) of change—culturally, economically, and environmentally.