The Vergecast: "Ben McKenzie vs. Crypto"

Date: April 14, 2026
Host: David Pierce
Guests: Ben McKenzie (actor, author, documentarian), V Song (The Verge reviewer)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Vergecast explores two different "descents into madness" through technology’s impact on our lives. The first half features Ben McKenzie—best known from "The OC"—discussing his critical documentary Everyone Is Lying to You for Money, which dissects the promises and pitfalls of crypto. The second half delves into The Verge's own V Song’s 18-month journey with continuous glucose monitors (CGMs) and the broader rise (and risks) of health data, wearables, and the intersection of personal health, tech, and politics.

Section 1: Ben McKenzie on "Everyone Is Lying to You for Money" and the Crypto Rabbit Hole

[03:21] Introduction

• Ben McKenzie has transitioned from actor to one of crypto’s most prominent critics, culminating in a new documentary out this week. David Pierce describes Ben’s perspective as “largely correct” regarding crypto’s problematic nature.

[04:36] Is Crypto Really About Money?

• Ben McKenzie:
  • "All money's made up, right? It's just a social construct like government or religion."
  • The fundamental issue with crypto is that it claims to be a trustless system—removing human relationships from money—but that’s “nonsense” since computer code is still written by people.
  • “If money is trust and you're saying it's a trustless currency, then you're saying it's like a governmentless government or religionless religion... the words you're searching for are anarchy and cult."
  • The technology underpinning crypto is also flawed: Bitcoin can only do 5–7 transactions per second, compared to Visa’s 24,000.
  • Ultimately, most modern crypto comes from corporations, not any neutral, decentralized source.
  • Timestamp: [05:06–07:39]

[08:31] Field Research: The Broken Promises of Crypto

• Ben approached the crypto universe earnestly, trying to understand claims of borderless, fee-free money.
• A key turning point: a visit to El Salvador, the only country to attempt Bitcoin as real currency.
  • In practice, no one accepted Bitcoin; even remittances via Bitcoin dropped to less than 1% of the economy.
  • The narrative was built for Westerners: "It was never going to happen. It's a total grift."
  • The only real value in crypto is revealing “the myriad failures of a regulated [financial] system.”
  • Timestamp: [08:31–11:39]

[13:02] The Trust Illusion, FTX, and the Deep Flaws

• The myth of “trustless” code is debunked by real-world events—e.g., FTX, where founders changed code to allow fraud.
• "Money has to be a public good. That’s the only way you can scale the trust."
• The failures of our financial system are deeper failures of democracy and capitalism.
  • Timestamp: [13:02–15:08]

[16:05] Crypto Culture: A Bizarre “Schlong Fest” and the Get-Rich-Quick Scheme

• The crypto community is disproportionately male and fixated on gambling, risk, and profit.
• "It's as old as time" but wrapped in oppositional (and sometimes contradictory) language.
• “It is like—we posted on, on Reddit, on Celsius Reddit board to try to talk to victims of the Celsius scam. And all dudes responded... It's really, really dude. I just can't express how much of a schlong fest it is."
• Ben acknowledges gambling isn't going anywhere but wants better investor protection and less criminal exploitation.
  • Timestamp: [16:05–18:34]

[19:19] Crypto, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud

• The subtitle of Ben’s book: "Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism and the Golden Age of Fraud."
• "Gambling is fundamentally a zero sum enterprise... and while we play the game, the casino takes the rake."
• Wall Street and crypto are not equivalent; stocks, at least in theory, drive broader economic value, while crypto does not.
• Crime is one of crypto's only consistent real-world use cases: “$150 billion of illegal activity was facilitated via cryptocurrency. That's a lot of effing crime."
  • From Russian oligarchs to funding North Korean nukes, "the worst people in the world have benefited from this."
  • Timestamp: [19:19–23:15]

[23:57] Why Does Crypto Survive? “The Number Keeps Going Up”

• Despite repeated scandals, the value of Bitcoin and crypto remains high, largely due to political alignment and speculative culture.
• The Trump administration’s embrace of Bitcoin in 2024 created new bullish sentiment.
• "The supposedly decentralized thing... now needs to kiss the ass of the corrupt President... to carve out their own rules and not have to follow the rules so they can keep the Ponzi scheme going."
• Mania and irrational markets can last a very long time (Bernie Madoff, dot-com bubble, etc.).
• Quote: "The market can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent." – referencing John Maynard Keynes.
  • Timestamp: [23:57–27:46]

[27:46] Closing Thoughts

• Economics is about human behavior, not mathematical rationality. "Humans are not rational. We do stupid shit all the time.”
• David and Ben thank each other for an honest, far-ranging chat about crypto and its broader meaning.
• Memorable exchanges:
  • “Are we sure we’re not just all mad at capitalism and the American dream?” — David Pierce [18:34]
  • “They're lying to you for money.” — Ben McKenzie [20:38]
  • "It's just how the thing works. So that's the answer. The manias can last a really long time." — Ben McKenzie [26:04]

Section 2: V Song's Continuous Glucose Monitor (“CGM”) Rabbit Hole

[31:00] What Is a CGM and Why Now?

• Wearable tech for tracking health has expanded; the FDA cleared over-the-counter CGMs in 2024.
• Formerly, CGMs were strictly diabetes tech; now, mainstreamed for wellness and “metabolism optimization.”

[34:19] The Political Push: MAHA and Wearables

• In 2025, RFK Jr. and the Trump admin (with Surgeon General nominee Casey Means, a Levels CGM cofounder) pushed wearables as part of the “MAHA” (Make America Healthy Again) platform.
• RFK’s campaign: “We are going to... my vision is that every American is wearing a wearable within four years.” [35:47]
• Means and others have linked CGMs to reversing pre-diabetes, ‘optimizing metabolism,’ and even preventing unrelated diseases.

[38:50] The Pitch: Why Should Healthy People Track Glucose?

• “Optimizing your metabolism” has become a major wellness goal.
• Device makers and the wellness industry promise data-driven insights for diet, longevity, and health—but scientific consensus remains lacking.

[41:55] V's Personal Journey: From Half-Marathoner to Data-Driven Panic

• V has PCOS (polycystic ovary syndrome), a metabolic condition, and a family history of diabetes, so began self-tracking with CGMs.
• First try (NutriSense, 2023): “Everything makes sense. You are super great. There’s nothing to flag here. And I was like, this is amazing.” [41:55]
• Second try with new OTC CGMs (Dexcom Stelo and Abbott Lingo, 2024): Data seemed alarming, with high morning glucose, causing real health anxiety and prompting doctor visits. All bloodwork was normal.
• “I am the most annoying patient for doctors... I keep years of blood test data.” [45:44]
• Ultimately, V was told: genetics, not bad behavior, were at play—and prescribed medication.

[47:40] The Psychological Costs of Data: Disordered Eating, Experiment Fatigue

• Wearing CGMs led to obsessive behavior: strict food monitoring, anxiety over any “bad” data, and social withdrawal.
  • "The TLDR is that I started going to social events and not eating anything because I was terrified if eating a slice of pizza was gonna spike my glucose." [48:53]
• V’s eating and exercise habits became rigid, and even therapist and friends intervened.
  • “I realized throughout this experiment that I can't account for how I move during the night... Is a cat sleeping on me going to affect it?” [48:50]
  • “I had interventions held and I was like, oh, I've become really obsessive in a way that is harming me and that I didn't even realize was harming me.” [53:10]
• The negative side of “self-optimization” and wearable data can mimic eating disorders and drive health anxiety.

[55:00] Care Gaps and Data Quality: No Consensus, No Guidance

• No medical consensus yet exists for non-diabetic CGM data.
• Multiple endocrinologists gave different responses to hypothetical reports; unclear, even among experts, what “normal” means for healthy users.
• Peer-reviewed research still nascent; in the meantime, many users are left anxious and uncertain.

[57:00] The Paradox of Success

• After strict lifestyle and now medication, V sees improved biomarkers (cholesterol, liver enzymes) but at steep cost (loss of muscle, mental health, no energy for running).
  • “Did I become healthier in this process?... Is my life optimized? Is it optimized now? I don't know. I would, I would argue not.” [59:21]
• Highlights the limits of wearable data and wellness culture: these tools are only as good as the guidance (and motivations) behind them.

[60:09] Should Medical Data Be for Everyone? The Regulatory Debate

• Rapid expansion of these devices is now political; Washington staffers use Oura and WHOOP, manufacturers lobby for lighter FDA regulation.
• V emphasizes the blurred line between ‘wellness’ and medical devices, and the risks of relying too heavily on data for self-diagnosis, especially for people with predispositions to anxiety or disordered eating.
• “We need to have a much more thoughtful, nuanced discussion about how to integrate these tools into our lives so that they remain tools... We control the tools.” [65:53]

[66:19] Emotional Resolve and Call for Better Human-Focused Tech

• V wraps the segment: “...if we can continue the conversation and have really smart conversations about it, that maybe we can push these companies to be a little more human and how they create these features, because they do think about it... But the bottom line is profit.” [67:07]

Section 3: Listener Hotline – Why Gadgets All Look the Same

[69:30] Q&A Summary

• Listener asks: Why are modern gadgets (laptops, phones) so visually bland compared to prior decades?
• David’s Answer, Key Points:
  • As products become ubiquitous, companies settle on minimum viable designs for scale and user familiarity. Novelty becomes riskier and more expensive.
  • "Once we as a consumer society land on an idea that works... changing that thing becomes very, very hard."
  • Supply chain economics encourage incremental changes over revolutionary redesigns.
  • Only big leaps in underlying technology (e.g., flat screens, new inputs) force new designs.
  • User inertia: “Every teeny tiny feature that almost nobody uses inside of Microsoft Word is still used by millions of people.”
  • If you want new gadget form factors, root for new technology—not just new colors.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ben McKenzie:
  • “They're lying to you for money.” [20:38]
  • “If corporate money seems like a good idea to you, then you should go for crypto, right?” [07:39]
• David Pierce:
  • “Are we sure we're not just all mad at capitalism and the American dream?” [18:34]
  • “The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay liquid.” [26:36]
• V Song:
  • “The TLDR is that I started going to social events and not eating anything because I was terrified if eating a slice of pizza was gonna spike my glucose...” [48:53]
  • “It's the idea of using this every day for everyone. Always reviewing the data that I find, like, maybe is a bit not the correct approach.” [63:51]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:21] Ben McKenzie on his crypto skepticism and new documentary
• [05:06] Debating if the story of crypto is about money or something else
• [08:31] Crypto’s narrative vs. harsh realities—El Salvador’s failed Bitcoin experiment
• [13:02] The trust illusion and lessons from the FTX collapse
• [16:05] Male-dominated crypto communities and rampant “get rich quick” culture
• [19:19] Casino capitalism: why crypto is not Wall Street
• [23:57] Why crypto endures—the politics and psychology of manias
• [31:00] What are CGMs? The rise of the glucose-data economy
• [34:19] The political push for wearables under MAHA/Trump administration
• [41:55] V Song’s 18-month experiment and struggle with wearables, PCOS
• [48:53] Data and anxiety: the dark side of quantified health
• [55:00] No expert consensus: Challenges of non-diabetic glucose monitoring
• [60:09] Regulatory murkiness—what’s “medical,” what’s “wellness”?
• [66:19] V’s emotional resolve—calling for more human-centered technology
• [69:30] Hotline question: Why are gadgets so boring now?

Final Thoughts

This episode is a wide-ranging, honest look at the promises and pitfalls of technology as both a speculative asset (in crypto) and a daily companion (in health monitoring). Ben McKenzie’s skepticism serves as a cautionary tale of blind optimism and financial mania, while V Song’s experience with CGMs exposes the complexity—and potential dangers—of self-tracking and the “optimization” mindset. Both stories highlight the need for thoughtful regulation, better design, and a renewed focus on human well-being over profit or hype.