Meet The Onion's new and improved InfoWars

Summary

Vergecast Summary: “Meet The Onion's new and improved InfoWars”

Date: June 30, 2026
Host: Mia Sato (with David Pierce contributing news rundown)
Guest: Tim Heidecker (comedian, writer, new Creative Director of “InfoWars” relaunch under The Onion)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on The Onion’s high-profile takeover and satirical relaunch of the infamous conspiracy website InfoWars, formerly run by Alex Jones. Comedian and writer Tim Heidecker, now serving as creative director for the new project, discusses his approach to parody, the challenges and stakes of satirizing an entity synonymous with real-world harm, and what the future holds for InfoWars under The Onion’s stewardship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin and Vision for InfoWars’ Satirical Relaunch

• Initial Reaction to the Acquisition (03:30):
  • Heidecker describes his immediate interest after learning of The Onion’s plans:

    “I want it. Yes. I think my thought was, that would be fun to have to play with… I’m such a fan of The Onion that how can I insert myself somehow into [Ben Collins’] plan?”
    — Tim Heidecker [03:37]

• Creative Approach and Phases (05:59):
  • Phase 1: Direct parody of the conspiracy world (e.g., crisis actors, supplements).
  • Phase 2: Broader platform for varied comedy, using the media infrastructure as a staging ground for innovative programming.

    “First phase, we’re gonna come out and be very, like, directly parodying that world, that sort of conspiracy world… but to me, that doesn’t have a long shelf life.”
    — Tim Heidecker [05:59]

2. Planned Content and Parody Targets

• Program Lineup (07:57):
  • “Emergency with Tim Heidecker” – a direct Alex Jones parody (6-episode arc).
  • “The Jim Haggerty Show” – Onion’s long-running “Tucker Carlson”-type satire.
  • “Interstitial stuff” tying it all together in the spirit of Adult Swim (“block” programming, shared sensibility).
• Acting & Impressions:
  • Tim’s Alex Jones impression:

    “Tim Heidecker here. I'm broadcasting now live on the Internet. Thank you for joining me. We have major, major announcements to go through here. Lots going on.”
    — Tim Heidecker [06:43]

  • Clearly not aiming to “fool” viewers—intends for the satire to be transparent.

    “We’re not never really trying to fool anybody. I’ve always been presenting stuff in a way that might be confusing for people. And we confused the hell out of Alex when we exposed ourselves.”
    — Tim Heidecker [14:29]

3. Satire in a Post-Truth Era

• Difficulties of Satirizing Reality (11:38):
  • “Sometimes I wake up and read the news and it’s like the Trump administration has stolen Onion headlines…and beaten you to the punch.”
    — Mia Sato [11:38]
  • Heidecker replies that “sometimes… you don’t need to…” heighten reality; sometimes just observing and amplifying absurdity is enough.
• Approach to Parodying Alex Jones (12:02, 13:38):
  • Focus on the “universal,” (e.g., paranoia, magical thinking, belief in demons).
  • Using satire to expose deeper human flaws and connect viewers through laughter at shared absurdities.
• Modern Conspiracy Culture (18:08):
  • Alex Jones “almost feels…old school…compared to some of the new gen, like Nick Fuentes types...they’re very tapped into how platforms work and what young people want.”
    — Mia Sato [17:25]
  • Heidecker reflects on how the conspiracy scene has evolved, with personalities who can “run circles around you” in online debates and how some of Jones’ originally wild claims are now woven into mainstream discussions, problematic or otherwise.

4. Harm, Harassment, and Restitution

• Emphasizing Real-World Impact (29:30):
  • On Alex Jones’s Sandy Hook lies: “Alex Jones has lied for years… The families have been harassed and threatened. Some said they’ve received letters from people saying, ‘we’re gonna desecrate your child’s grave.’”
    — Mia Sato [30:01]
  • The Onion/Heidecker plan to direct “a portion” of merchandise sales to Sandy Hook families as partial restitution:

    “This is the prime motivator for this, is to set up—to make InfoWars valuable again and start generating money that can go to them, that can start paying them back…keeping that pressure on in the courts and in the press and reminding people.”
    — Tim Heidecker [30:17, 30:52]

• Sandy Hook Families’ Involvement (33:46):
  • Families had initial hesitation but ultimately encouraged the project: “Go harder…we think this is hilarious and are happy to see him getting dragged through the mud.”

5. Legal Limbo and Launch Logistics

• Bankruptcy Process and Legal Complications (35:12):
  • The licensing/ownership remains in legal limbo due to court stays, but the creative team is forging ahead with content distribution regardless.

    “Limbo is the right word for it…it’s Bananas. In the meantime, we’re just going to go and do it anyway. Our legal side is very confident that…we can proceed.”
    — Tim Heidecker [36:06, 36:27]

6. Satirizing the Economics of Gimmick News (28:00, 29:20):

• Product Parody:
  • Possibility of satirical “supplements” or “injectable Pepto Bismol” exploited for laughs.
• On Real vs. Parody Sponsorship:
  • Heidecker jokes about a gold vendor offering to “make gold for you” as a meta-satire of right-wing grifts.
• Comparisons:
  • “His main function is to sell pills...that probably don’t work. And you know, that’s true for… Cheers, the sitcom, too. It was just to sell, you know, Chevrolets. So it’s very similar.”
    — Tim Heidecker [21:08]

7. Broader Impact, Hope, and Technology

• Hopeful Outlook (38:26):
  • The project is ultimately about reclaiming narrative and leveraging satire for positive impact.

    “There’s a ton of funny, creative, young, diverse people out there that I think are pushing the boundaries of what you can do in comedy and what’s funny and how you use the tools of technology to make interesting things… it’s endless.”
    — Tim Heidecker [38:26]

• AI and Satire (38:26–40:12):
  • Heidecker finds relief in creative resistance to AI anxiety, citing creators who puncture tech utopianism with humor.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Parodying Alex Jones
  • “I am walking in his skin, but I can take it off whenever I want.”
    — Tim Heidecker [06:58]
• On Satirizing the Impossible
  • “Sometimes it is hard to find something crazier than what he’s doing, but you can try… you can usually find something funnier.”
    — Tim Heidecker [13:24]
• On InfoWars, Justice, and Memory
  • “It should be a never forget situation because there should be justice for the decisions he made. There should be consequences… we’re not gonna stop telling people what you did.”
    — Tim Heidecker [30:52, 33:21]
• On Legal Limbo
  • “The Texas Court of Appeals has said, put a stay [on the transfer of InfoWars]… every other court in Texas… and the federal court has said… stop holding this up. This is Bananas… In the meantime, we’re just going to go and do it anyway.”
    — Tim Heidecker [35:12, 36:06]
• On Bridging Satire and Reality
  • “We confused the hell out of Alex when we exposed ourselves. And he started finding all my old Tim and Eric stuff… He took the bait.”
    — Tim Heidecker [14:29]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [03:27] Mia welcomes Tim Heidecker and dives into his interest in InfoWars acquisition.
• [05:55] Outlining the “phase” plan for InfoWars relaunch.
• [07:57] Description of the opening programming, including show titles.
• [13:37] Absurdities of right-wing conspiracy content, and pushing satire beyond what’s real.
• [18:08] Discussion of generational shifts in internet conspiracy culture.
• [29:30] Addressing Sandy Hook, restitution, and merch proceeds for victims’ families.
• [35:12] Legal limbo, current obstacles, and workarounds for launching the new InfoWars.
• [38:26] What keeps Heidecker hopeful about satire and the creative community.

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Conclusion

Heidecker’s stewardship of the Onion’s new InfoWars is pitched as a layered, ethical, and ambitious comedic project—meant both to lampoon harmful conspiracy media and reroute its legacy (and, where possible, literal revenue) into meaningful restitution. The conversation is sharp, irreverent, and rooted in an explicit desire to balance the line between parody, cultural commentary, and justice for those harmed by weaponized misinformation.

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For more coverage on The Onion’s InfoWars relaunch, readings on quantum computing, and updates on tech news, visit theverge.com.

Transcript

[Mia Sato]

Welcome to the Vergecast, the flagship podcast of the international chip shortage. I'm Mia Sato and today I'm talking to comedian and writer Tim Heidecker about the Onions Takeover of infowars. A year and a half ago, the satirical news site the Onion announced it was trying to acquire infowars, the conspiracy news website hosted by Alex Jones. Among the many lies peddled by Jones was that the 2012 Sandy Hook elementary school shooting was a hoax. The victims families sued Jones and won $1.2 billion in defamation lawsuits. Infowars came up in bankruptcy auction and the Onion emerged as a potential new owner. The legal process to acquire infowars has been through a lot of ups and downs, but the Onion is relaunching it anyway. On July 2nd. Tim Heidecker, the influential comedian and writer, has been named creative director of the revamped infowars. I'll talk to Tim about his vision for infowars in an era when reality is stranger than fiction. But first, here's what's happening on the Verge today.

[David Pearce]

Hey, it's your friend David Pearce, and this is 90 seconds on the verge for Tuesday, June 30, 2026. We're starting to get looks at the next generation of iPhone, and they're coming in the strangest ways. First, there were reports that photos of the iPhone 18 Pro were starting to appear on the dark web, along with a list of the device's parts. Then videos that supposedly showed the 18 pro undergoing a drop test showed up on X. If this really is the 18 Pro, boy does it look a lot like the 17 Pro. Call me when the iPhone fold starts showing up on the dark web, you know what I mean? Meanwhile, couple of important political things today. First, the Supreme Court stopped President Trump's attempts to end birthright citizenship, which means that still nearly everyone born in the US Is a US Citizen. And the Kids act passed the House by a pretty wide margin. Actually, this is a package of bills that, among other things, implements safeguards for minors on social platforms and would require AI chatbots to tell you that they are, in fact, not human. Versions of this legislation have been around forever, and there are still a bunch of hurdles to clear, but this idea is starting to move. And finally, Verge contributor Sophia Chen just published an excellent piece on the state of quantum computing, which has supposedly been the next big thing for, like, forever. At this point in reality, there's a lot of progress being made, but you don't have to learn what a qubit is just yet. You can read more about all of [e-mail], that's 90 seconds on the verge for Tuesday, June 30th. Back to MIA.

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[Geico Advertiser 1]

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[Tim Heidecker]

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[Mia Sato]

Tim Heidecker, welcome to the Vergecast.

[Geico Advertiser 2]

Hi.

[Tim Heidecker]

Thank you.

[Mia Sato]

How's it going?

[Tim Heidecker]

It's good.

[Mia Sato]

In 2024, Ben Collins says he's going for Infowars. What is your thought immediately? Are you like, I want it.

[Tim Heidecker]

I want it. Yes. I think my thought was that would be fun to have to play with. What does he. I don't really know what he means. So my first thought was, who do I know over there? And can I. I'm such a fan of the Onion that how can I insert myself somehow into the. Into his plan?

[Mia Sato]

And are you thinking, you know, when you see this news kind of developing, do you have an idea in your head about what you would do if you had the keys? Or is that something that kind of developed over time?

[Tim Heidecker]

The first attempt for them, I reached out with, I think just to talk to them about what they were thinking. And then I never heard back. So I didn't think about it. I kind of just thought, oh, well, I guess I've. I'm no longer relevant because I can't get the Onion on the phone. And then out of the blue they called me and I hadn't realized that this was back on. And really, I think in that first conversation, I was just spitballing and my first two thoughts were, well, it would be. It would be Fun to make fun of him for a little while. But then that joke would go stale. But then you'd have all this. You'd have a media site. You'd have the infrastructure of, like, a streaming site or a new, you know, anything you wanted it to be, so it would be. And at the same time, I was, like, developing my own independent streaming sites, the High Network, which is where I do on cinema and Office Hours, which is we do through Patreon. And I'm just really excited about the possibilities of, like, you know, building your own networks, your own subscription, you know, streaming sites. And I thought, well, there's my sites, my especially the High Network, which is very specific. It's very similar to the Onion because it's very restrictive in what we can really do, because of the sensibility has to be very straightforward or it has to be united. And you can't just. I have so many funny friends and ideas that don't fit into that box. And the Onion was thinking the same thing. They want to do so much in comedy, but they're kind of restricted by their own voice. For good reason. But. So if there's this other thing, maybe we can expand outside of our limited

[Mia Sato]

sensibilities and drag the cinematic universe out a little bit.

[Tim Heidecker]

Exactly.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah.

[Tim Heidecker]

Create a big old parent company, which it's not quite that yet, or it's evolved since then, but it has become sort of these. We talk about it in sort of phases. Like, first phase, we're gonna come out and be very, like, directly parodying that world, that sort of conspiracy world. You know, supplements and hood waking people and, you know, crisis actors and all that stuff. But to me, that doesn't have a long shelf life. So then it would. Phase two would evolve into, well, let's make a platform for the kind of comedy we all like.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah. Because I think when, you know, an earlier announcement, there was a clip of you doing an eerily good Alex Jones impression.

[Tim Heidecker]

Tim Heidecker here. I'm broadcasting now live on the Internet. Thank you for joining me. We have major, major announcements to go through here. Lots going on.

[Mia Sato]

But to clarify, you're not going to be trapped in his skin. You won't be Alex Jones forever.

[Tim Heidecker]

I am walking in his skin, but I can take it off whenever I want. Yeah, no, I'm going to do it for a little while, but I don'.

[David Pearce]

Want to be.

[Tim Heidecker]

I. I mean, I just have other things I want to do, so I'm not. I don't want to get trapped in that mentality for too long.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah, but the stress on your vocal

[Tim Heidecker]

cords must be actually it. I was, I. People are like, how do you do it? And I said, it's. It's fun and easy, but I've only been doing it in short bursts. And then last week we filmed like, like two proper episodes that kind of took all day. And by the end of that, I was stressed. I mean, like, physically, the vocal cords were. And the next morning I was like, oh, boy, I don't know if I can get it. I'm on vocal rest. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure I could go to some kind of a coach and get to where I can do it every day, but I don't think I want to do that.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah. Yeah. So new Infowars scheduled to launch in just a few days, July 2nd. What will people find when they go to theonion.info.

[Tim Heidecker]

we're putting together kind of an hour or so of programming that is essentially. It's my show, which is infowars, essentially the very direct parody that we're calling Emergency with Tim Heidecker. And that's got like a six episode arc that I can't reveal much about. But we'll kind of. Well, we'll see. We'll see what happens. And then the Onion had, before I got involved, had produced the Jim Haggerty show that is very much like a kind of a Tucker Carlson parody that they've teased already. So we have those two kind of like tentpole shows and then there'll be some like, interstitial stuff. You know, we want to start presenting the idea that this is gonna be like, you know, the way adults swim was this block of time that you would go. And it all felt kind of connected. It was kind of similar sensibility, a voice that's consistent. And so that will get us hopefully, you know, into the fall. And then I think we'll try to kind of relaunch or sort of present our, you know, fall programming schedule. That stuff that's now just in the works. That's just being developed now.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah, I wanted to ask about Jim Haggerty. You know, the Onion social media accounts have been teasing and reposting old stuff. Can you tell listeners what his lore is?

[Tim Heidecker]

Well, I don't know at all, but I was a fan for sure when they're still doing their sort of CNN parody. And he was like the morning guy and it was like very much local news. And I just, I mean, I was such a fan of those. Fewer Americans than ever are planning to travel this summer. But what if taking that vacation doesn't

[David Pearce]

turn out to be as expensive as you think?

[Mia Sato]

Travel expert Kathy Barnett joins us now with an affordable summer getaway solution. Taking a vacation in your mind.

[Geico Advertiser 3]

Hi, Kathy.

[Tim Heidecker]

Good morning, Kathy. And then he, I guess his trajectory was he got, you know, red pilled, I guess, or something and got kicked off. I'm not sure. I don't have all the details. But now he's sort of this anti new or anti establishment parody of, you know. Exactly. Kind of exactly what happened with Tucker Carlson.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah, yeah. I was looking up the actor who plays Jim Haggerty, Brad Holbrook, and apparently he used to be a reporter in a previous life. It kind of adds like a really funny dimension to it.

[Tim Heidecker]

I mean, that's like a great trick of, in my world of casting is try to find as close to the real deal as you can and work with them. Like, not. I'd much rather see a real guy like that than, you know, a comedy actor, you know, some kind of improv person pretending to be that, like, just go for the real deal. For 35 years, I was part of

[Mia Sato]

the problem,

[Tim Heidecker]

a mouthpiece for the mainstream media, spewing their lies and kissing their feet all while they turn me into something I'm not. But now I'm free of my corporate shackles and my only business is freedom.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah. Find a disgruntled former news anchor and

[Tim Heidecker]

get him in and write him funny lines.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah. Give him a red pill script.

[Tim Heidecker]

Put the teleprompter up there and let him go.

[Fetch Pet Insurance Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Mia Sato]

This is such a funny time to produce satire. Sometimes I wake up and read the news and it's like the Trump administration has stolen Onion headlines. Right. And beaten you to the punch.

[Tim Heidecker]

Not the Onion Reddit page.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah, right. How do you keep an edge? Where do you look for what's next or what? Getting one step ahead?

[Tim Heidecker]

It depends on what project I'm in. I mean, office hours is much more reactive to what's going on in the world. You ever use Snapchat? They've announced these new. Everyone's got the wearables, the glasses, the technological glasses.

[Geico Advertiser 3]

Right.

[Tim Heidecker]

This bombed, apparently. What do they do when you look through them? You see people's faces in a baby filter. And sometimes that can just be. You don't need to really, like, you know, you can kind of just talk about what's actually happening and have a laugh about it and remind people that you're not going crazy. This is crazy. You know, and be angry or be befuddled or whatever your feelings are. And that's more like immediate reactiveness in this InfoWars space. I think it's finding. I mean, just. Just ratcheting up the absurdity to where it becomes funny. And it's more about, like, human relationships and not the specifics as much. I'm more interested in, like, the deeper flaws that we all have that are kind of universal. And so, like, with Alex Jones, I think there's like, the idea of paranoia and everyone's out to get you. And what's. How do you can do that in a funny way by. Sometimes it is hard to find something crazier than. Than what he's doing, but you can try to. You can usually find something funnier. Sure, I think. Or something that makes me laugh. You know, I like. It's a. I like playing in this world. I also like playing with religion and. And like, the idea of. Have the. The sort of child, the school yard or like. Like the elementary school level ideas of hell and heaven and demons. Because he talks about demons a lot.

[Fetch Pet Insurance Advertiser]

Yes.

[Tim Heidecker]

And I just think that's very silly. You know, I think demons are silly. It's like thinking about witches and stuff and goblins, you know, and he treats them so seriously that. That's, like, a fun area for me to play in. But I hope with all of that, you are getting to, like, a deeper universal connection to, like, what. What we're all. What we're all feeling and, like, finding those flaws in us and seeing and just getting them out in the open and laughing at them.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah, Yeah. I imagine these clips will be everywhere from the various programs that you're producing. Are you wor. Are you worried about people not realizing that it's new infowars?

[Tim Heidecker]

I mean, worried about people realizing that.

[Mia Sato]

Not realizing that this is parodying something? I mean, I guess they would see you and be like, alex Jones looks a little different.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah. I mean, we're not trying, like, we're not never really trying to fool anybody. You know, I think we're playing to our audience, playing to our fans and people that are into different kinds of comedy or get, you know, think that guy's a scumbag and want to goof on him with me and. But I've always been presenting stuff in a way that might be confusing for people. And we confused the hell out of Alex when we exposed ourselves. And he started finding all my own. All my old Tim and Eric stuff, you know, and, you know, you can't. That's. You can't predict that. You can't control it, but sometimes it hits in a beautiful way where it's just like, oh, he. He took the bait.

[Mia Sato]

It writes. The story writes itself.

[Fetch Pet Insurance Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Mia Sato]

I'm curious what corners of the Internet you find yourself fascinated with. Where do you go to find weird things? Or where do you go to find material or things to play off of or things to, you know, sort of shape your work on?

[Tim Heidecker]

Well, I love a few Reddit accounts that I look at a lot. I think that I'm. I'm a main. I'm the main character. One that always is. Like, that's a character I want to do. Like, who. Who is that person? What's their deal? I think our guy I do office hours with, Vic Berger, is an absolute Instagram addict, where he finds the people with 200 views that are absolutely. From Mars and sends them to me. And sometimes I watch them. But, you know, sometimes it'll be like, it'll come back in a way where you're like, I forgot about that. But then now I'm writing a character who's, you know, is a guy who is always like, showing off his wife and he's taking. He's like taking his wife to the mall. Like, I love showing how much he loves his wife and how well good he treats his wife.

[Fetch Pet Insurance Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Tim Heidecker]

And that's like, funny on the surface, but then maybe a month or two later there'll be like something unrelated that's like, oh, that, that would be a fun note to play that similar thing. I mean, I love also, like, I'll definitely dip into like the, the Rogan verse or like the, you know, like Patrick. Bet David.

[Mia Sato]

I don't think so.

[Tim Heidecker]

People don't know these people. There's a small group of people I know that we treat these like. That's like our reality show.

[Mia Sato]

Okay. Okay.

[Tim Heidecker]

And they're these right wing guys who do broadcast every morning or. And they just talk about the news and everything. But they are hilarious. I mean, unintentionally.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah, sure.

[Tim Heidecker]

The way they interact and so that will inspire something. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, like everybody else, I'm on my phone a lot.

[Mia Sato]

You're watching reels, looking crap.

[Tim Heidecker]

Looking at crap.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah. Okay. So if we send you a reel, there's like some small chance you might see it, you might watch it if it has like two views.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah.

[Fetch Pet Insurance Advertiser]

Okay.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mia Sato]

I'm curious if you and folks working on Infowars, whether that's Ben Collins or someone else, have talked about, like, the contemporary space of conspiracy theorists and what it looks like. Cause I was thinking about it and Alex Jones almost feels like, not quaint because it's like monstrous, but almost like old school in some ways compared to some of the sort of new gen, like Nick Fuentes types. Right. Like, they're very tapped into how platforms work and how algorithms work and what young people want. So I'm curious, like, if you guys talk about sort of the real ecosystem and what it looks like.

[Tim Heidecker]

Well, we, we haven't talked too much about it. I could tell you what I think, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Alex, that brand of conspiracy theory does feel a little. He is. He is an older, you know, he's been doing it for a long time. And his, his media generally does feel a little dated. I think if you look at other stuff, I'm fascinated by these like, like millennial, maybe even. What's. What's below Millennial? Gen Z. Alpha.

[Mia Sato]

Oh, yeah. Gen Z and then Alpha. Yeah.

[Tim Heidecker]

Like those young guys, mostly guys even. And a lot of them are on the left. We're like really fast talking.

[Mia Sato]

Sure.

[Tim Heidecker]

And know everything. They know everything. They sit in that jubilee thing. Oh, my God. Actually, if you look at the GDP from 2026 to 2020, you can find

[ServiceNow Advertiser]

that

[Tim Heidecker]

debate talk where I just like, you know, you just talk. They run circles around you. And that's like a whole new breed, I think, of Internet personality that kind of came recently. And I mean, I don't look at Nick Fuentes. That guy creeps me out. I think too much to actually listen to him. But yeah, I mean, it's also just so spread out and has just kind of dissolved into the general culture. And some of it, like the weird thing about this, when we started really ramping this up was you had. It was at this period where suddenly there's all the Epstein stuff and Alex was breaking off from Trump and you started feeling like, well, some of the stuff he has been talking about is. Is actually real. There is. There is a secret society of sickos out there. And, and, but, but then it gets, you know, it just gets so messed up with, you know, it gets into this anti Semitic stuff. It gets into, you know, Tom Hanks isn't the problem.

[Geico Advertiser 3]

Right.

[Tim Heidecker]

I don't think, you know, tbd, but people that Alex is very close with are so. And then there's, you know, the break in foreign policy. So it's like, it's a weird time. Sort of a weird time to go hard on him because some of the stuff he's like saying is actually quite anti Trump and anti establishment. But it still goes back to. I mean, I tuned in the other day just to get some inspiration for the voice and I literally hit on him talking about somebody who had faked his own death and they were talking about Charlie Kirk faking his own death. And like what? Like that doesn't, I don't know. They just love that magical thinking, I guess. And I think for their, for their audience, it's a way to under, to make the world make sense and to like feel like there's order, even if it's an order that is against you. At least it's not just, you know, I could get struck by a bolt of lightning. Sure. You know, so. But he, his main fault function is to sell pills, you know, pills that probably don't work.

[Mia Sato]

Gummies, pills.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah. And that's at the core of his. And you know, that's true for like, you know, Cheers, the sitcom too. It was just to sell, you know, Chevrolets. So it's very similar. Yeah.

[Mia Sato]

I wonder what we sell. I don't know.

[Tim Heidecker]

Oh, I'm sure you sell lots of cards, phones, chips.

[ServiceNow Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from Upwork to the business owners out there. When did you decide that this was what you wanted to do? Was it that late night work ping that made you want to set out on your own or have you always had this drive since grade school? No matter when you were inspired, you need people to make it happen. That's where upwork comes in. Upwork is a one stop platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers who can help you with web and software development, data and analytics, marketing, business operations and more. Upwork can help grow your team and your business by connecting you with specialized talent across more than 125 categories. So you can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster and scale support up or down without committing to full time headcount. It's free to sign up and posting a job is easy. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That is Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's up w o r k.com upwork.com support for this show comes from Keeper Security. What do you think your most important items are? You probably say your keys, wallet and a phone in some order. But what if you were wrong? What if the thing that's the most important to you is your data? It's the reason why bad actors do whatever they can to try and get their hands on it. And it's on you to protect it. That's what Keeper Security is all about. Keeper is a password manager and the simplest way to take control of your online life. It creates strong, unique passwords for all your accounts, stores them securely in one place and logs you in automatically across all your devices, from your phone to your laptop, from your tablet to your browser. Keeper works quietly so you can just get on with your day. Right now, Keeper is offering our listeners 60% off personal and family [e-mail] Verge this offer is only for podcast listeners. That's keepersecurity.com Verge for 60% off personal and family plans make sure you use our link so they know we sent you. Keepersecurity.com Verge Support for the show comes from Framer. If your team wants a website that looks and feels handcrafted but is still fast to ship, Framer is built for that you design on a visual canvas with responsive layouts, hosting and a CMS built in so the work is production ready. From day one, agents work alongside you to draft pages and polish sections. Then you review and publish what goes live. Framer is the pro site builder for creators, teams and businesses that want a professional site and care enough to get every detail right. Agents solve the gap between AI generated ideas and production ready website work. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free [e-mail] Verge for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's Framer.com Verge for 30% off Framer.com Verge rules and restrictions may apply.

[Geico Advertiser 3]

When I got a new car, I thought my insurance premium would increase and empty my bank account like if Fatween won the lottery.

[Geico Advertiser 2]

I've invested most of my winnings in chicken tenders because they're bomb. But bro, I bought a house and it's sick, bro, I'm thinking the floor, floor is going to be all trampoline, bro, with the helipad on the roof. The contractor said it's structurally unsound, but they're just being babies.

[Geico Advertiser 3]

But switching to Geico saved me hundreds, so my bank account is safe.

[Tim Heidecker]

It feels good to save some hard earned cash. It feels good to Geico.

[Mia Sato]

I don't want to spend, you know, too much time talking about Alex Jones because I think like what you're working on is more interesting. But I do have this nagging thought that's like, you know, he obviously can perform, right, he can do the character, but he was also fighting tooth and nail for his show for Infowars, on the brink of losing it, where he was spending days posting on X, where he Seemed to be like conflating characters you'd written and played and saying that it was you, the person who had taken over Infowars. Do you have a sense of how much he truly believes any conspiracies or anything he shares with his audience versus how much is the performance?

[Tim Heidecker]

I don't have any clue. I mean my, I could just tell you what I, I don't have any inside information on that. I think it's like 60% of an act. And then he seemed, I mean he's been doing it since like the 90s, you know, so somewhere in him is a, is a worldview that is, you know, conspiracy driven.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah.

[Tim Heidecker]

Back from 911 to, you know, you name it. Kennedy assassination, bigfoot, you know, UFOs. I don't know. All of it. All of it's fun in a way, you know, like there's a recreational quality to this stuff that, you know, I think Joe Rogan used to center his show around like, hey, let's talk about ghosts. Or there was, you know, there was a, there was a show I listened to a lot was coast to Coast. It was George Art Bell and then George Norrie. And it was a radio, late night radio show where people would call in and say, hey George, I saw, you know, Loch Ness Monster about three years ago. And we were. And he's like, uh huh, go ahead. And it's just good radio. So I think that's what a lot of this started as. And then it changed. It really changed more with Trump because Trump basically was like one of those listeners or one of those callers. Yeah.

[Mia Sato]

Literally calling. Yeah, he would love to call into like TV programs.

[Tim Heidecker]

He'd just shoot from the hip and say what he thought and a lot of it was nuts. And now he's actually running the world in a lot of ways. So that's the scary full circle of it, I guess.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah. A big part of the Infowars ecosystem. And Alex Jones finances was selling crap. I looked at the store the other day.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah, what have they got?

[Mia Sato]

I was kind of surprised because I feel like he hasn't been keeping up with the trends. It was mostly gummies, supplements, but I feel like he really should be on the peptide train. And I was surprised that he wasn't.

[Tim Heidecker]

Right.

[Mia Sato]

So will the Onion be selling peptides?

[Tim Heidecker]

I'm a little behind on peptides. I've heard. I keep seeing it.

[Mia Sato]

Sure.

[Tim Heidecker]

Is it like steroid? What is it?

[Mia Sato]

Injectables?

[Tim Heidecker]

I mean, look at Alex. Like he's a, he's not peptid. From what I could tell, he could be.

[Mia Sato]

It could be a different peptide that I'm not aware of. A new horrible thing.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah, it's a ballooning peptide. That's. Yeah. I mean, we'll have to figure out the funny version of that. I don't know if that just doing peptides is quite there, but maybe Pepto. Maybe injectable Pepto Bismo. Yeah. In a syringe form. Yeah.

[Mia Sato]

Right, right.

[Tim Heidecker]

The pink stuff.

[Mia Sato]

The pink stuff. Have you heard from any of the sponsors of the show or any of them?

[Tim Heidecker]

I don't know if there are any. I mean, I think it's their stuff. I don't know if these are.

[Mia Sato]

They're like, manufacturing it somewhere in Austin.

[Tim Heidecker]

I think so. Ye. No, I haven't heard from anyone. We did hear from somebody that. I don't know how much I could say about this, but who actually makes gold. And, like, he sells gold. Like, and you could. If you were at a company, you could work with him to, like, design gold, whatever, you know, things and sell them on your site. And he, I guess, used to work with Alex and used to work with Rogan and those guys doing crap. And he wants to do business for you.

[Mia Sato]

He wants to make gold for you.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah. Which we have a couple of ideas.

[Mia Sato]

Oh, love it.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah.

[Mia Sato]

It could be like a mega sponsorship level where it's like.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah, as long as I get the most.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah. I want to make sure that we, like, really explicitly talk about the harm that the show caused. And, you know, for listeners who are not aware, Alex Jones has lied for years about the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. 26 people were killed. 20 people. And the families have been harassed and threatened. Some said they've received letters from people saying, we're gonna desecrate your child's grave. Families have had to go into hiding.

[David Pearce]

Move.

[Mia Sato]

And several years ago, Alex Jones was ordered to pay, like, something like $1.5 billion to the families in two defamation suits. Have those families gotten anything? Have they gotten a sense of justice or money or anything?

[Tim Heidecker]

No, I mean, I think. I'm not sure if this was announced. When we launched this, we launched a whole line of merch shirts and bags and all that kind of stuff. And a portion of that is going to the families. And it's quite a bit because we sold a lot of Infowars merch. This is the prime motivator for this, is to set up a. To make Infowars valuable again and start generating money that can go to them, that can start paying them back.

[David Pearce]

Yeah.

[Tim Heidecker]

He's been very successful in evading that. And part of this is keeping that pressure on in the courts and in the press and reminding people. I think we forget about that and people don't know the details of what he was doing to those families. And we should be. It should be a never forget situation because there should be justice for the decisions he made. There should be consequences for them. And to try to tamper it from happening again, from that feeling like it's an okay thing to do. Like, it's. There's a documentary anyone could watch on HBO called the Truth versus Alex Jones that goes very much into the details of what he did. It's a horrifying experience to watch that because the first 20 minutes of that movie is about what happened to those kids. And not something that anyone wants to go and revisit because it is truly horrible. Like, as horrible as you can get. And then stacked on top of that is almost immediately, you know, one of the fathers comes out to talk to the press, because he doesn't. Somebody has to. Somebody has to speak for these people. And the cameras are rolling and he's never done this before. The guy's a NCIU nurse. You know, it's just like a normal guy. And he's uncomfortable. And what do we do often when we're uncomfortable?

[Fetch Pet Insurance Advertiser]

Laugh.

[Mia Sato]

Yes.

[Tim Heidecker]

We smile. We go, this is weird. You know, something? He does that. And that is the ground zero point of those ghouls saying, look at that, he's an actor. Nobody wouldn't smile like that. And that just. That's the big bang of the insane conspiracy theory that ruined that person's life for many years. And then. So that was. You could watch the clips of him, Alex Jones, being glib and. And just purely disgusting in the way he talked about these freshly wounded families, you know, in a way that just makes you want to put your hands through the TV screen and, you know, wring his neck. And so we're kind of doing that in a more artistic way, I suppose. I love the idea that it's like, oh, what was that? That was 2012, dude. That was fucking yesterday. Yeah, you know, in our. In. In my mind, in a way. So, like, no, you don't get to just, like, keep doing your shit. Or, I mean, maybe you will, but we're not gonna. We're not gonna, like, stop telling people what you did and try to do it in a entertaining, artistic way, I guess.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah. And to the bitter end, he was saying lies about the family. Oh, yeah.

[Tim Heidecker]

Except when he's under oath. And he goes, that was a joke as a kid. Come on. It's a comedy show. Or, you know, whatever. He said, it's a. It's. It's. It's. It's entertainment, you know, it's too late.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah. Was it a process to get the families on board with the vision?

[Tim Heidecker]

I talked to Ben about that because that happened a little before I came on board. But they were. You know, they had to take a minute to think about what you're talking about, like, what? And then they came back and said, yeah, this sounds cool. I mean, good luck, and let us know what we can do. And then after we had been doing it for a while, after I had put out a couple things, we did a big zoom with everybody, and they were like, go for it. Go. Go harder. Like, do, you know, really. Don't. Don't worry about us. Like, we think this is hilarious and are happy to see him getting dragged through the mud. Like. Like he is right now. And, like, people are not forgetting about this. And just more like, you know, thank you. Basically was what their message was, which was pretty intense.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah, for sure. I was curious if they had any, like, creative input. Did they have ideas for what to do?

[Tim Heidecker]

The only thing one of them said was like, I can't. It was from one of my clips of me doing the impression. And he's like, my wife gets really mad because she thinks I'm listening to Alex Jones in the room. She's like, turn that guy off. But it was just me, which was a nice. That's his way of saying a curse.

[Geico Advertiser 1]

Yeah.

[Mia Sato]

The legal process has obviously been through some ups and downs and speed bumps, and it's been a whole thing. The last I heard was that the Onion had put forth a plan in which you'd basically license the Infowars IP on, like, a monthly basis, and that also a judge was trying to stop. So what is. Is it still kind of in limbo?

[Tim Heidecker]

Infowars, I think it is lit, like. Yeah, there's the. The Texas Court of Appeal. State Court of Appeals has said, put a stay on. On that at the last minute. Literally, like, the day before, we were about to get the. The keys, which was very upsetting for everybody.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah.

[Tim Heidecker]

We got a call from Ben. He's like. And remember, I told you there are, like, three things that could happen. This is the fourth thing that we didn't think was going to happen, but every other court in Texas and I think a federal court has said, like, stop it. Stop holding this up. This is Bananas. And so limbo is the right word for it because he certainly doesn't have any ownership over that anymore. The receiver does, but they're apparently too scared to do anything about it.

[Mia Sato]

What are they scared of?

[Tim Heidecker]

I mean, there's some wackos out there.

[Mia Sato]

Sure. Oh, okay.

[Tim Heidecker]

You know, that could be it. I don't know. I think some people are just a little more tender about this stuff. Nervous. I haven't spoken to the person, but I wish I could, because I would say, give it to me now.

[Mia Sato]

Give me the keys right now.

[Tim Heidecker]

Give me the password. You know, like, what is the can? I guess it.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah, right.

[Tim Heidecker]

That's all we're talking about here. At the root of guess, the site itself. So the message that we all gathered and said that we are. This is going to eventually happen. Like, we'll eventually come to our. He will have to do it eventually. The pressure. We will keep the pressure on, but in the meantime, we're just going to go and do it anyway. And no one's going to. Really. No one's going to have anything to say to stop us. Our legal side is very confident that we're. We can proceed. The only thing we just don't have is the website itself. But we're gonna have Real Infowars, Instagram, Real Infowars, Facebook, all that stuff. TheUnion.info is where the site will be, and then hopefully by the end of the year or something. But who goes to websites anymore anyways, right?

[Mia Sato]

Actually, a lot of Verge readers love going to.

[Tim Heidecker]

I have a funny thing to say. My tech guy.

[Mia Sato]

Who's the tech.

[Tim Heidecker]

What's the guy? Wes, who does the. Technically, he's like the technical director on Office.

[Mia Sato]

Okay, got it.

[Tim Heidecker]

And he knows everything about computers and the Internet. He's always on, talking about microchips and stuff. And I was like, I gotta go to New York. I gotta do this press. I gotta do the. What the hell is the Verge? I don't want to go down and do the Verge. And I already did Wired.

[Mia Sato]

I said, how can there be two?

[Tim Heidecker]

And I said. And he goes, oh, no, no. The Verge is the one to do.

[Geico Advertiser 2]

Really?

[Tim Heidecker]

The Verge is the hotspot right now.

[Mia Sato]

Oh, my God. Well, now you know what the Verge is. And you can.

[Tim Heidecker]

I'm on the verge of knowing.

[Mia Sato]

There was another interview that you did where you kind of described your early work, you know, turning a mirror to, like, American culture and consumerism from sort of like, in a cynical way. But the Infowars venture feels incredibly hopeful to me. And it feels like a refusal to let Alex Jones have the final say and have the last word. So what keeps you hopeful?

[Tim Heidecker]

My children, I suppose, would be two people that keep me hopeful. I mean, just knowing that there's a ton of funny, creative, young, diverse people out there that I think are pushing the boundaries of what you can do in comedy and what's funny and how you use the tools of, you know, technology to make interesting things. I mean, just the amount of creativity out there, the amount of ingenuity, and it's. It's endless. And like, you know, we're all freaked out about AI, and one of the people we are talking to is this guy Husk, who a lot of people he's blown up on Instagram, but he just has a series of him talking to his AI and makes fun of and shows you how stupid it is. And it's funny, but it's also, for me at least it calms my nerves about the whole, oh, no, we're gonna have AI overlords. When in fact, I think it's pretty clunky and pretty bad. It sucks. And it's a con job that these billionaires have been selling snake oil. I think. I think that's what it is. And he's one of the people just through his little videos where the AI can't spell strawberry, you know, or it won't count to 100 or something. That's like, he's making fun of the way I would make fun of maybe Trump four years ago or something, you know, like. Like we there, there's just. There's people that I'm, I'm hopeful will, you know, add by. By adding their point of view to the world will, you know, entertain us and make us think about things differently?

[Mia Sato]

And it sounds like maybe infowars could be new. Infowars could be a calming presence. If you're afraid of AI making you the part of the permanent underclass or whatever.

[Tim Heidecker]

Yeah, I think so.

[Mia Sato]

Yeah. Yeah. Goodbye, Tim Heidecker. Now you know what the Verge is.

[Tim Heidecker]

Thank you, Miha.

[Mia Sato]

Thanks to Tim Heidecker and thanks to you for listening. Send your questions and comments to vergecastheverge.com or call 866. Verge 11 the Vergecast is produced by Josh Kahas, Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer, Travis Larchuk, Aaron Locasio and Andrew Marino. If you want to support what we do here at the verge and get ad free podcasts, go to theverge.com subscribe David will be back tomorrow if I let him. Bye.

[Geico Advertiser 3]

When I got a new car. I thought my insurance premium would increase and empty my bank account like if fatween won the lottery.

[Geico Advertiser 2]

I've invested most of my winnings in chicken tenders because they're bomb. But bro, I bought a house and it's sick, bro. I'm thinking the floor is gonna be all trampoline, bro, with the helipad on the roof. The contractor said it's structurally unsound. They're just being babies.

[Geico Advertiser 3]

But switching to GEICO saved me hundreds. So my bank account is safe.

[Tim Heidecker]

It feels good to save some hard earned cash. It feels good to geico.

[Fetch Pet Insurance Advertiser]

Support for this show comes from Fetch Pet Insurance. Do you have a pet? Every six seconds a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill of over $1,000. And it's almost always an unwelcome surprise. That's where Fetch pet insurance comes in. Fetch is the most complete pet insurance get paid back up to 90% of vet bills. You can use any vet in the US and Canada. All vets are in network. Go to fetchpet.comsave right now for your free quote. That's fetchpet.comsave.