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[00:02]
A
Hello and welcome to the vergecast, the flagship podcast of Woop Doops. I'm your friend David Pearce and today on the show we're gonna talk about wearables, but not the kind of wearables we normally talk about, which traditionally have screens and are probably smartwatches and have more and more features all the time and are trying to replace your phone and all kinds of everything. There's this new thing happening though, where instead of all of that, we're getting devices like Whoop and new things from Fitbit and new things from Garmin that are pointed in a very different direction. They still have lots of technology, they still have lots of features, they still connect to your phone, but importantly they don't have screens and they seem to communicate something different about what we want from our wearables and how things are supposed to feel when we put them on our body. I asked the Verge's V Song to come on and explain what's happening here, both technically and culturally, because I think there's a real shift happening here and I think she might agree with me. We're going to get to that in just a second, but first, here's everything else happening on the Verge today. This is 90 seconds on the Verge for Monday, August 3, 2026. Movie fans, I have good news and bad news. The good news? Brand New Day is great and it's a huge hit. Actually the second biggest opening weekend ever and along with the Odyssey, it made this weekend the biggest weekend in box office history. Movies are so back you guys. Now the bad news, if you want to see either of those movies in imax, good luck. As of this week, Spidey and Odysseus will be shar IMAX locations around the US which means that the already hard to get tickets will be even harder to get for both movies. Personally, I've given up and I will just be streaming them via bootleg TikToks as the directors intended. Meanwhile, Truth Social just started selling access to a new API that gives paid subscribers early access to posts from influential accounts on the platform. And by that I mean the only Truth Social account anyone is even aware of, President Trump. If you're thinking, gosh, that sounds like corruption, giving anyone who pays a huge amount to the Trump Organization access to obviously market moving information from an administration that basically governs by true social posts. All I'll say is that that is a very reasonable and very popular takeaway. Finally, Google leaks are coming fast and hot ahead of the Pixel launch scheduled for next week. It looks like the Pixel 11, unfortunately, will be more expensive than last year, starting at 899 bucks, and some of the models will have less RAM than before. None of this is surprising given the incredible rising price of memory everywhere, but it continues to be a bummer. We also might have gotten our first look at a Google book, the Gemini first laptops expected to ship later this year. I can describe them to you in six words, pretty much just a Microsoft Surface. I'm kind of into it though. You can read more about all of this@theverge.com that is 90 seconds on the verge for Monday, August 3rd avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app download today.
[03:11]
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Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, and more. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com all
[03:52]
A
right, let's talk fitness trackers. The Verge's V song is here. Hi V hi V3 is a trend. This is, this is literally the pitch I made to you for Come do this show with me is three is a trend. We have the whoop, which I think gets probably a lot of credit. I want to know exactly how much credit for starting this whole particular new kind of fitness tracker trend. Then you have the Google Fitbit error, which we've talked a bunch about on the show, and now you have this new one from Garmin that is just, it's just exactly the same thing. I want to get into these devices in particular. But tell me about this new thing that Garmin launched and whether it's exciting or not.
[04:28]
C
Garmin launched the Garmin Circa, which I have on my arm right now, and it's basically a whoop dupe. In the sense that you know, this like the Whoop can also be worn on your bicep, so you know, it can be worn on a different part of your body. Garmin is more kind of appealing to the same crowd as the Whoop crowd is. But when I was talking to Garmin, they're basically like, this is kind of a lifestyle device for them. And they were like, think same vein as Garmin Venue 4. I understand what that means. But for everyone else who's not extremely well versed in.
[05:05]
A
Did I just google those exact words as you said them? Maybe.
[05:07]
C
Yeah. The Garmin, like the 4000 Garmin devices that are on the market, the Venue line is their smartwatch line. It's mostly for people who are a bit more casual, bit more more lifestyle, but still want some kind of in depth tracking. So that's kind of the same user base that they're targeting with the Circa. It was an interesting concept because they were also like, you know, Phoenix users just might want a circa for when they're sleeping because it's a little more comfortable than, you know, kind of acknowledging that the Phoenix can be a heck and chonker of a device. There's a lot of buttons, so they're kind of targeting entry level people who like the Fitbit Air might be your grandparents who don't need the bells and whistles that carbon provide a little bit more of a streamlined feature set. So it's not like, you know, like the endurance metric where you can watch your energy levels fluctuate during an endurance, an endurance long, long run. It's more of like basic tracking. Like if you hit the button, it can auto track one type of activity. You're gonna need your phone with this device. It, you're like, there's no built in GPS on this. It's connected gps, which makes sense because there ain't no screen.
[06:22]
A
So it's the, it's the ain't no screen that I want to talk about because I think you're right that all of these things poke at kind of different kinds of people. But holy God, do they look the same? I mean they are just structurally the exact same hardware, right? Little, little pill fitness tracker inside of a very similar looking Velcro band that, I mean that's, that's the thing. And I think this makes me think we should talk about Whoop just for a minute because whoop dupe is, is a thing and these look like whoops in very real ways. What is it that Whoop figured out in this space that everyone is still catching up to, like, there are a lot of fitness trackers out there. A lot of people have a lot of different ideas. But WHOOP seems to have solved something specific that I've never been able to put my finger on, that folks are chasing after even now. What do you think it is?
[07:13]
C
Um, I'm going to also lump Aura into that. Um, what WHOOP and Aura have figured out is some people just don't want another screen on their body. Uh, they want all the metrics and they want the in depth fitness or they want some degree of the fitness. They're just not trying to be bothered. I think it's just that they happen to be screenless devices at a time where a lot of people are having a certain degree of tech fatigue, where they don't want to be looking at another screen, possibly right in front of their eyes and glasses, and they want a little bit less distraction, a little bit more intentionality. And the market that WHOOP has basically catered to, which are hardcore fitness people, elite athletes, weekend warriors, people who are very kind of into the wellness space, naturally, those people have been kind of banging on the intention and intentionality drum for a long time. And for those people, screens are a destruction a lot of the time. But I've heard it from my readers too, who are just like, you know, there's just so much to look at on my phone. I'm just fatigued every day. The, the screen is small on the wrist, the battery life is not what I want. A WHOOP will last you like a month on a charge because they have a little battery pack that you just stick on the thing. The Garmin circa is 10 days, the Fitbit Air is about seven. So you don't really have to think about it. It's on your wrist, you don't have to think about looking at it. It's there. I have the OURA ring on here. It's also just there. And I think that's really kind of the thing that WHOOP tapped into, which is you can get all the data, same data. Maybe the GPS is not quite as good, but you don't really have to look about it or think about it. It's just there in the background. And turns out that's what a lot of people want.
[09:08]
A
Well, what's so interesting to me about that is that my confusion about WHOOP has always been that all of the things you just described, all of those upsides seem like they would make a lot of sense for casual people. Right? I don't need constant feedback on my fitness as I sit here at my desk in my basement for 17 hours a day, what I need is sort of a rough overall sense of how I'm doing. And so something like this that doesn't have a screen, that doesn't offer feedback, that doesn't buzz my wrist all the time, useful whoop appeals to people at the very top of the. I want to know how I'm like, whoop invented new scores for people and has come up with new metrics and is very much geared toward peak athletes doing peak athlete kind of stuff. So the fact that those people a wanted that device not just for the stuff that it offered, but for the actual physical object in the way that it worked and that that's a growing trend among even sort of elite athletes, people who really care about this stuff is really fascinating and frankly, kind of surprising because everything else has been running towards bigger screens with more features that do more stuff. So the fact that next to that is this new thing rising even among those same people strikes me as a big change in this space.
[10:24]
C
It's actually, if you think about how the athlete brain works, it. I actually think it makes sense because it's about focus. Right. So when you have the screens, part of the reason why you have screens is engagement. So a smartwatch on a. On a run is going to be telling you data mid, mid run. It's going to be like, this is whatever now. Like, you have workout buddy and the Apple watch will interrupt if you choose. Like, some people like this, some people don't. But it'll interrupt a thing being like, great workout. You just hit your 10th whatever this month on an incline of whatever. And you know, some, for some people, that really takes them out. It's gonna kind of distract them from their focus.
[11:06]
A
Sure.
[11:06]
C
Um, so not having a screen, not having those metrics to look at, you can just be completely zoned in. Like when I'm running and I'm just like, I wanna stop. I don't like this. It's humid. Why am I doing this to myself? My mental trick and go to is to just focus on my breathing. So I'll be like one breath in, two out. And I'll play little games with my surroundings. And that's how you kind of lock into your body.
[11:30]
A
And then your watch goes, you did it. You ran two miles. And yeah, yeah.
[11:34]
C
And so like the watch you have, I've noticed in myself, I'll be like, oh, my God, how much is fucking lift on this run? Oh, God, I've only gone 0.05 and then, you know, I have to focus. Whereas if you don't have that screen, there's nothing for you to do but to focus on what's going on at the moment. It kind of makes sense for an athlete whose main priority is performance, focus and recovery to not have a screen, because the last thing you want, and I think, truly, I think this is a reason why professional sports leagues have not been into wearables on the, on the court, is that they don't want any distraction, they don't want any unfair advantage. And what is a screen going to do other than give you an unfair advantage? Whereas something that's screenless is just recording data.
[12:21]
A
So the last question I have on these devices in particular is, is there a technical trade off in there? You're describing what I would call big interface changes, right? That this is. This is a complete shift in how we think about using and looking at and interacting with these devices. And I'm for now, resisting the urge to connect that to much bigger stories about our relationship with technology that I want to get to in a minute. But I am curious purely from a. What can you do with these trackers kinds of trade off, is the Circa or the Fitbit Air sort of definitionally less powerful because of what it is than some of the other things? Like can. Can you do all of the things in one of these, you know, pill in a strap devices that you can in the biggest, fanciest smartwatches out there?
[13:09]
C
No, just because they are. So the trade off is that you are in some ways relying on your phone more. So you get these to not look at your phone or look at screens quite as much. But conversely, you are relying on your phone more because that's the only way you're going to view data, that's the only way you're going to be able to manage the settings. So it's a little weird in that it's counterintuitive, right? Because you can't do anything on this. Everything has to be done on the handy dandy phone, which is, is. Is like these are paired together. If you want to leave your phone at home while you're working out, sorry, buddy, you're not going to be able to do that. You have to take your phone with you because they don't have integrated gps, so that's going to be out there. You cannot call from your screened thing. So if you're in an emergency, I hope you have your phone on you and it doesn't go like falling down the mountain because like the circa does have live tracking. So you know, that's the feature that Garmin has so that you can notify your loved ones if something happens to you. Well, you best have your phone on you because otherwise it's just a fitness band. And you know, smart watch, it can do more than just track your fitness. This is just fitness. So it's in a way it's like a return to the dedicated instead of the multi use wearable. Okay.
[14:32]
A
And that makes me think that maybe the case Garmin made to you that this is a device existing Garmin owners might also want maybe makes some sense because my, my, my instinct was to be like, well, okay, if I own a really expensive smartwatch, why would I also want one of these cheaper, simpler things? But maybe it's for the reason you just described that there are, there are times where the one is useful and there are times where the other is useful. And actually ultimately they occupy really different spaces for sort of particularly like athletes who want this kind of data all the time.
[15:03]
C
Yeah. And I mean, I say this primarily about the Oura ring because a lot of people ask me like, can I get rid of my smartwatch and just use an aura ring? I think some people could, but there's a lot of people who are going to find that the best experience is to have a smartwatch and an aura ring. Or like, you know, I find that to be the most holistic use case. Again, I'm wearing five wearables today, so not necessarily the best judge about streamlining the number of devices I'm tracking on,
[15:37]
A
but that is, it does give you kind of a perfect feedback loop the aura into the watch gives you sort of in and output information all the time in a way that is really useful.
[15:48]
C
And I don't have to worry about battery so much. So the positive trade off with like you're not having standalone capability, you do have to rely on your phone more. The positive trade off is that the actual recording and the tracking, the battery life is massively increased. This guy, especially if you're running beta software on it, does not last as long as these guys do. So like we can measure battery life in like at least a week is the baseline for a screenless tracker. And this one is days.
[16:17]
A
I'm charging this Fitbit Air like every eight or nine days. And I have to say, it is wonderful.
[16:22]
C
It's great.
[16:22]
A
Yeah. And it's such, I don't know if this is the experience with. You have with all of these. You've obviously tested many more of these than I have. But the Fitbit Air is such a bully when its battery is dying. It's so funny. I feel like I get a notification like every hour when it's under 24 hours of battery life being like, your Fitbit's about to die. Hey David, your Fitbit's about to die. Charge your Fitbit. It's about to die. We don't have 24 hours left. And it's like, honestly, on the one hand it's great because it makes me remember to charge my Fitbit before it dies. But on the other hand it is so aggressive in reminding me. It's like if you don't wear if your Fitbit dies, you'll die. David, you have to charge it now.
[16:58]
C
Do is pretty aggressive on the Fitbit Air, but less so on the other ones.
[17:03]
A
But hey, at least you only have to deal with that like once every 10 days, right? Huge improvement.
[17:09]
B
Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com
[17:50]
C
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[17:50]
A
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A
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[18:18]
A
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[18:45]
C
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[19:18]
A
I do want to know how subscriptions factor into this, because every one of these that comes out, the accusation is it's a whoop doop. And they're like, okay, sure, but no subscription. And this is. I mean, I think it's still true that the main issue people have with Whoop and Aura, the two you mentioned, is that they're very expensive. Right? Like, the hardware is often very subsidized, but these things cost a lot, and they are not simple purchases to make. The Fitbit Air has a subscription if you want some of the AI stuff, but you don't have to have a subscription. The Circa, I think, doesn't have a subscription at all. How big a deal is that in these new devices?
[19:58]
C
So it's really interesting because I think we have to talk about premium and lux status markers when we talk about the subscription, because what Whoop and Aura do is that they market their devices as sort of like a lux premium
[20:13]
A
Aura in particular or in particular.
[20:15]
C
And, you know, it's a little bolstered by that because it's jewelry. Right. So you. It's technically jewelry, especially with the 5. I predict that this will be wedding bands for people in Silicon Valley. Just. That's just how it's going to be.
[20:28]
A
You're right.
[20:28]
C
Yeah. Because they're thinner now. They. They look pretty good. But so, you know, these are marketed as premiums, and everything is kind. Everything useful is paywalled. So with Aura, if you don't, technically the subscription is optional, but if you
[20:46]
A
don't, it's not like, let's just be honest. It's not.
[20:48]
C
It's really, let me say, like, you'd
[20:50]
A
be ridiculous to buy an Aura and not get the subscription.
[20:52]
C
Technically, you'll get three scores. Not that useful. Literally everything else is paywalled. Yeah. Whoop, they don't charge you for the hardware. You just pay a month, a monthly, slash, yearly subscription. And those are. There's like three tiers of whoop subscriptions now. And they're expensive. They just are. And you pay that every year. So, like, I've mapped it out in various reviews as to, like, how far your Buck bang for your buck is going to go at least with the Aura. You're kind of paying into a hardware price and then a very low monthly subscription, which is $6. People still very upset about that. Now they market those as premium status luxe. Celebrities wear them. You want to feel like a celebrity. That's kind of how they've marketed those. So the Garmin Connect subscription is around, is around $7 a month. And the Fitbit, you're going to pay around a $10 subscription on a monthly basis. I believe it's 99 for a year. Relatively cheap, but these are also much lower priced in terms of the hardware. The, the Fitbit Air is $99. The Circa is $199. So when you do the, the, there's some like multi dimensional math going on here, but when you do the calculations, this will cost you less. And the subscriptions are fully optional. And what's not paywalled is very, very minor. So the, the Air is going to paywall the AI and the adaptive fitness plan. Okay, whatever. A bunch of people are just gonna be like, all I want are my steps, bro.
[22:31]
A
Yeah. I've now spent a lot of time with Google Health's AI system and I can tell you you don't need to pay for that.
[22:36]
C
You really don't need to if you don't want to. If you want to, go, have at it. But if you don't want to, you're still gonna get everything that you would in terms of your data, your metrics.
[22:46]
A
Right.
[22:47]
C
And Garmin, Garmin's AI is I like the people at Garmin, but their AI is doo doo so far. It's like what you're getting for the subscription is like more nutrition log and AI summaries and you don't need either of those right now. What's not paywalled is a buttload of data. So in kind of in a shift, you're going from Whoop and Aura on the premium scale to Fitbit and Garmin going like, hey guys, you want something affordable? You want to go back to the roots of fitness bands and tracking. Yeah.
[23:23]
A
So you're actually kind of describing like not just a lower end version of the same kind of thing, but kind of a different category of device altogether. And like you said, It's a very 2012 category of devices. But I kind of mean that as a compliment. And this actually brings me to my big picture question about all of this. And this is where I want both Vsong wellness reporter and Vsong person who uses all of the Wearables. It also seems to me that we might just be due for a big pullback on where like showy technology on our bodies anyway. We've been on this relentless drive towards more bigger screens on our wrists. Everybody is assuming we want screens on our face. Screens everywhere. Everything is technology. What if, what if your jacket had technology in it that let you control your phone? Is. Is there something in this that suggests we are due for a spin back on that? That even if we want some of the things that that technology enables like health data and I don't know, headphones on our glasses, that actually what we want is much less screens and much less showy technology. Do you think this is a broader trend than just fitness trackers?
[24:35]
C
Absolutely. I. I think it's been building. Not like we're seeing this stuff come out now. Right. It feels like a trend now. Products are in development for a. I would say that these desires were planted a year, two years ago probably. Well, probably around two, maybe even three years ago. I started noticing it back then. Another whoop dupe that we haven't talked about is the amaze fit Helios band. And that's one that some readers have asked me about. And you know, one thing that Amazfit as a brand does, and if you don't know the brand, it's kind of like a more affordable brand from China where they do a lot of this sort of stuff. Great bang for your buck value from them. You know, for a couple years ago I got a Vergecast question where they were like, where did all the fitness bands go? And I went, that's a great question, where did they go? And it was basically just Chinese brands at that point in time with viable products on the market. Everyone else had been like smartwatches, yolo, let's go all in screens forever. Woo. And I think I saw an increasing number of people go like, hey, could you tell me about smart rings? Because I just feel really overwhelmed. And then, you know, these brands started coming out with this because I think that's where the people went. That's what people wanted. Aura and whoop started getting more traction, particularly in wellness influencer communities. And you know, a lot of people are getting their ideas of what to do for trackers now from running bloggers, health and Wellness people on TikTok giving them dubious misinformation. Which is why you should subscribe to my newsletter, Optimizer. That's kind of where they were getting these ideas from. Kim Kardashian having a sleeping contest with, I believe Gwyneth Paltrow, one of those people, they were just like, oh, let's have a sleep off. This is where they're getting their ideas from. And the irony is that Whoop and Aura have started stuffing so many features and so many metrics into these screenless devices that the data fatigue is. I have immense data fatigue right now. I'm like, what score do you want from me right now? You want me to give blood for what now? Yeah, you're tracking my pee. Because why, okay. Oh, that's why you're putting AI into things. Because now I have so much data, I don't know what to do with it, but at least I don't have to look at a screen.
[27:10]
A
Well, and I think next to that is very like screen fatigue and data fatigue are very much running in parallel. So I guess maybe that explains why it seems to be hitting this particular space so quickly is that it is very much both of those things simultaneously and that we're going to get. We haven't even had smart glasses long enough to have the screen and data fatigue, but maybe smart people are going to see that coming before it gets here.
[27:36]
C
There is a certain type of person who is always going to want more, but there's a lot, a lot of people out here who are just like, I am overstimulated. I have way too much in my face at any given point in time. I don't need 60 biomarkers. The main reason is that people are so fatigued from the data that these devices are collecting, they don't know what any of these scores mean. And by and large, these devices are meant to help you track a baseline over a long period of time. You're not actually, actually the most useful way to, to, to use these devices is not to actually dig into the data every day, because if you're healthy, the data every day is gonna look the same. It's not really gonna change all that much. The change happens in like quarters, semesters, like months worth of time. It's not happening on a day to day or even a week to week basis. So they're really struggling right now to figure out what is the best bang for your buck, what is the best value. Because in order to justify a subscription, they're like, let's stuff more data in there. And then you stuff more data in there. And they're like, we have to invent new scores to contextualize the data for you.
[28:44]
A
This is what we just saw from Samsung with its new watches is they're like, here, look we have a bunch of new scores we can give you every day that don't really mean anything, but they're going to make you interact with our product more often. And that is by definition a good thing.
[28:57]
C
It's. It's a problem. They absolutely have not figured out the right balance of it yet.
[29:01]
A
It's a lot.
[29:02]
C
It's a lot. It's. It's way too much.
[29:04]
A
And I think I'm generally in favor of actually offloading all of that onto my phone. That there's something to at least like it's over there and I can get to it when I get to it, rather than have the thing on my wrist screaming at me all day. I'll take like that. That may not be the whole solution, but it does feel like part of it.
[29:19]
C
Yeah, it's, it's not perfect. Because I do think that the general thesis that you're going to have an ecosystem of wearables is what they've landed on is probably correct. Because on the one hand, I don't want to look at screens, but sometimes I do want to look at screens. And what if I want audio at some point? And what if I want to take notes discreetly? So I do think you're just going to have like six devices on you. I wrote an optimizer a while back about how I believe the wearable surveillance state is coming for all of us. And a bunch of people were like, that's just you. That's a you problem. And I'm like, right now it is. It's coming for all of us buddies.
[29:56]
A
No, I think you're right. And the hope is this is the beginning of a bunch of these companies unwinding that idea and realizing that actually not only is that not the way to get people, it's a way to actively lose people. And I think the hope I get from this trend is that maybe these companies have figured out how to keep you engaged without over optimizing you to the point that everyone just wants to walk away.
[30:21]
C
Not all of us are meant to be. Brian Johnson. Like, we can't, we can't live that life.
[30:26]
B
Nor should we.
[30:27]
A
Amen to that on so, so many levels. All right, Vy, we gotta get outta here. Thank you. Good to see you as always.
[30:33]
C
Thank you.
[30:34]
A
All right, that's it for the show. Thank you to V for being here. And thank you as always, for watching and listening. As a reminder, if you have thoughts, feelings, questions, if you have a wearable you'd like to see if, frankly, if you miss the Nike Fuel band and the Jawbone up as much as I do. I would love to hear about it. Email vergecasthevirj.com call the hotline 866-verge11 send us all your thoughts and feelings. It's my favorite. And as a reminder, the best thing you can do to support all of this is to subscribe to The Verge. The Verge.com subscribe it gets you all of our podcasts ad free, including this one. It gets you all of our exclusive newsletters. It gets you all of our coverage of wearables and everything else. Theverge.com thank you in advance. The Vergecast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. The show is produced by Josh Kahas, Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer and Travis Larchuk. We'll see you tomorrow. Rock and roll
[31:25]
B
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Summary6 min read

The Vergecast Episode Summary: "Rise of the Whoop dupes" (August 3, 2026)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of The Vergecast, hosted by David Pierce and featuring Verge writer Victoria Song (V), dives deep into the emerging trend of screenless fitness trackers, popularly dubbed "Whoop dupes." Moving away from the traditional smartwatch model, the conversation explores how new offerings from companies like Garmin and Fitbit are responding to tech and screen fatigue, the role of subscription models, and a cultural shift toward less intrusive wearable technology.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Emergence of Screenless Fitness Trackers

What’s New: A wave of wearables inspired by Whoop—such as the Garmin Circa and Google Fitbit Air—focus on function over display, lacking screens but providing in-depth fitness and health tracking (04:28).
Garmin Circa: Positioned as a "Whoop dupe," appealing to users who want robust tracking without a smartwatch’s size or complexity. It targets casual users or those seeking comfort during sleep, compared to more advanced Garmin devices like the Phoenix or Venue lines (04:28 – 06:22).

Quote:
"Garmin launched the Garmin Circa...and it's basically a whoop dupe in the sense that...it can be worn on a different part of your body. Garmin is more kind of appealing to the same crowd as the Whoop crowd is."
— Victoria Song (04:28)

2. Why Are Screenless Devices Gaining Traction?

Tech Fatigue: Both hardcore athletes and everyday users are moving away from screen-heavy devices, desiring less distraction and more intentionality in their data consumption (07:13).
Continuous Health Data, Less Distraction: Screenless devices still track comprehensive data, but require users to consult a phone or app for information, reducing interruptions during workouts or daily life.

Quote:
"Some people just don't want another screen on their body...a lot of people are having a certain degree of tech fatigue, where they don't want to be looking at another screen."
— Victoria Song (07:13)
Focus for Athletes: Elite users appreciate not being distracted by notifications or metrics mid-workout, aiding mental focus and performance (10:23 – 11:33).

3. Technical and Usability Trade-Offs

Features Lost and Gained:
- No built-in GPS or standalone emergency functions—phone dependency increases for data access and features like live tracking (13:09).
- Battery life is a significant advantage: Circa lasts up to 10 days, Fitbit Air about a week, and Whoop a month (07:13, 15:47).
Not Entirely Replacement Devices: Many users, especially those who crave all the metrics, find it best to use a combination—say, a smartwatch for notifications and a screenless device for sleep tracking or minimalist days (15:03 – 15:47).

Quote:
"You cannot call from your screened thing. So if you're in an emergency, I hope you have your phone on you...otherwise it's just a fitness band."
— Victoria Song (13:09)

4. The Subscription Model: Luxury vs. Accessibility

Premium Positioning vs. Affordability:
- Whoop and Oura emphasize a luxe, status-oriented brand, with major features paywalled behind subscriptions—even the hardware is subsidized, but total costs accumulate over time (19:18 – 20:52).
- Newer Garmin and Fitbit entries are more affordable (Circa: $199, Air: $99) and less reliant on subscriptions; their paywalled features are minor or optional.
User Irritation: Many features on Whoop and Oura are inaccessible without a subscription, leading to data lock-in and user frustration. In contrast, Garmin and Fitbit provide substantial value without required ongoing payments (22:31 – 22:46).

Quote (on Oura):
"Technically, the subscription is optional, but if you don't, it's not—let's just be honest. You'd be ridiculous to buy an Oura and not get the subscription."
— David Pierce (20:48)

5. Cultural Shift: Screen and Data Fatigue

Pullback on ‘Showy’ Technology:
- The hosts suggest we may be reaching a natural inflection point, moving away from always-on, visible tech in favor of simpler, subtler tools (23:22 – 24:35).
Return to Basics: Affordability and function-first design echo an earlier era of wearables, but now expanded with new health features and insights.
Overwhelming Data: Even with screenless devices, the volume of metrics is escalating—resulting in new forms of fatigue and the need for AI to help contextualize the information (27:10).

Quote:
"The main reason is that people are so fatigued from the data that these devices are collecting, they don't know what any of these scores mean."
— Victoria Song (27:36)
Big Picture:
The trend may indicate a broader desire for tech to be present but unobtrusive, available when needed but not constantly vying for user attention (29:04).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Why Whoop Succeeded
"WHOOP seems to have solved something specific...you can get all the data, same data. Maybe the GPS is not quite as good, but you don't really have to look about it or think about it. It's just there in the background. And turns out that's what a lot of people want."
— Victoria Song (07:13)
Casual Users vs. Elite Athletes
"My confusion about WHOOP has always been that...all of those upsides seem like they would make a lot of sense for casual people...but WHOOP appeals to people at the very top...So the fact that those people...that's a growing trend among even sort of elite athletes...is really fascinating and frankly, kind of surprising..."
— David Pierce (09:08)
Screen Fatigue and Focus
"Not having a screen, not having those metrics to look at, you can just be completely zoned in..."
— Victoria Song (11:06)
On Battery Life:
"We can measure battery life in like at least a week is the baseline for a screenless tracker. And this one [smartwatch] is days."
— Victoria Song (15:47)
Data Fatigue:
"What score do you want from me right now? You want me to give blood for what now? Yeah, you're tracking my pee. Because why, okay. Oh, that's why you're putting AI into things. Because now I have so much data, I don't know what to do with it..."
— Victoria Song (27:00)

Important Timestamps

03:51 — Introduction to Whoop, Garmin Circa, and the "Whoop-dupe" trend
04:28 — Overview of Garmin Circa, target audience, comparisons with other Garmin devices
07:13 — Discussion: Why screenless wearables are gaining popularity; screen fatigue
09:08 — The counterintuitive appeal to elite athletes vs. casual users
13:09 — Technical trade-offs of screenless devices; dependency on phone and loss of smartwatch features
15:03 — Different wearables for different use cases (rings, smartwatches, trackers)
19:18 — Subscription models: Whoop & Oura versus Garmin & Fitbit
23:22 — Broader cultural shifts: Is this a reaction against "showy" tech?
27:10 — Data and screen fatigue in wearable users
29:04 — The challenge of balancing utility and overwhelming users; the future of wearable ecosystems

Conclusion

The episode frames the shift to screenless wearables as both a reaction to digital fatigue and a move toward a more intentional, less intrusive technological experience—one that appeals to both high-performance athletes and casual users. Whether this trend is here to stay will depend on how well companies can balance utility, price, and the increasing complexity of health data, all while addressing our collective urge to tune out distractions and regain focus.

For more in-depth reporting and analysis, visit theverge.com.

Loading summary

Transcript68 lines

[00:02]
A
Hello and welcome to the vergecast, the flagship podcast of Woop Doops. I'm your friend David Pearce and today on the show we're gonna talk about wearables, but not the kind of wearables we normally talk about, which traditionally have screens and are probably smartwatches and have more and more features all the time and are trying to replace your phone and all kinds of everything. There's this new thing happening though, where instead of all of that, we're getting devices like Whoop and new things from Fitbit and new things from Garmin that are pointed in a very different direction. They still have lots of technology, they still have lots of features, they still connect to your phone, but importantly they don't have screens and they seem to communicate something different about what we want from our wearables and how things are supposed to feel when we put them on our body. I asked the Verge's V Song to come on and explain what's happening here, both technically and culturally, because I think there's a real shift happening here and I think she might agree with me. We're going to get to that in just a second, but first, here's everything else happening on the Verge today. This is 90 seconds on the Verge for Monday, August 3, 2026. Movie fans, I have good news and bad news. The good news? Brand New Day is great and it's a huge hit. Actually the second biggest opening weekend ever and along with the Odyssey, it made this weekend the biggest weekend in box office history. Movies are so back you guys. Now the bad news, if you want to see either of those movies in imax, good luck. As of this week, Spidey and Odysseus will be shar IMAX locations around the US which means that the already hard to get tickets will be even harder to get for both movies. Personally, I've given up and I will just be streaming them via bootleg TikToks as the directors intended. Meanwhile, Truth Social just started selling access to a new API that gives paid subscribers early access to posts from influential accounts on the platform. And by that I mean the only Truth Social account anyone is even aware of, President Trump. If you're thinking, gosh, that sounds like corruption, giving anyone who pays a huge amount to the Trump Organization access to obviously market moving information from an administration that basically governs by true social posts. All I'll say is that that is a very reasonable and very popular takeaway. Finally, Google leaks are coming fast and hot ahead of the Pixel launch scheduled for next week. It looks like the Pixel 11, unfortunately, will be more expensive than last year, starting at 899 bucks, and some of the models will have less RAM than before. None of this is surprising given the incredible rising price of memory everywhere, but it continues to be a bummer. We also might have gotten our first look at a Google book, the Gemini first laptops expected to ship later this year. I can describe them to you in six words, pretty much just a Microsoft Surface. I'm kind of into it though. You can read more about all of this@theverge.com that is 90 seconds on the verge for Monday, August 3rd avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app download today.
[03:11]
B
Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, and more. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com all
[03:52]
A
right, let's talk fitness trackers. The Verge's V song is here. Hi V hi V3 is a trend. This is, this is literally the pitch I made to you for Come do this show with me is three is a trend. We have the whoop, which I think gets probably a lot of credit. I want to know exactly how much credit for starting this whole particular new kind of fitness tracker trend. Then you have the Google Fitbit error, which we've talked a bunch about on the show, and now you have this new one from Garmin that is just, it's just exactly the same thing. I want to get into these devices in particular. But tell me about this new thing that Garmin launched and whether it's exciting or not.
[04:28]
C
Garmin launched the Garmin Circa, which I have on my arm right now, and it's basically a whoop dupe. In the sense that you know, this like the Whoop can also be worn on your bicep, so you know, it can be worn on a different part of your body. Garmin is more kind of appealing to the same crowd as the Whoop crowd is. But when I was talking to Garmin, they're basically like, this is kind of a lifestyle device for them. And they were like, think same vein as Garmin Venue 4. I understand what that means. But for everyone else who's not extremely well versed in.
[05:05]
A
Did I just google those exact words as you said them? Maybe.
[05:07]
C
Yeah. The Garmin, like the 4000 Garmin devices that are on the market, the Venue line is their smartwatch line. It's mostly for people who are a bit more casual, bit more more lifestyle, but still want some kind of in depth tracking. So that's kind of the same user base that they're targeting with the Circa. It was an interesting concept because they were also like, you know, Phoenix users just might want a circa for when they're sleeping because it's a little more comfortable than, you know, kind of acknowledging that the Phoenix can be a heck and chonker of a device. There's a lot of buttons, so they're kind of targeting entry level people who like the Fitbit Air might be your grandparents who don't need the bells and whistles that carbon provide a little bit more of a streamlined feature set. So it's not like, you know, like the endurance metric where you can watch your energy levels fluctuate during an endurance, an endurance long, long run. It's more of like basic tracking. Like if you hit the button, it can auto track one type of activity. You're gonna need your phone with this device. It, you're like, there's no built in GPS on this. It's connected gps, which makes sense because there ain't no screen.
[06:22]
A
So it's the, it's the ain't no screen that I want to talk about because I think you're right that all of these things poke at kind of different kinds of people. But holy God, do they look the same? I mean they are just structurally the exact same hardware, right? Little, little pill fitness tracker inside of a very similar looking Velcro band that, I mean that's, that's the thing. And I think this makes me think we should talk about Whoop just for a minute because whoop dupe is, is a thing and these look like whoops in very real ways. What is it that Whoop figured out in this space that everyone is still catching up to, like, there are a lot of fitness trackers out there. A lot of people have a lot of different ideas. But WHOOP seems to have solved something specific that I've never been able to put my finger on, that folks are chasing after even now. What do you think it is?
[07:13]
C
Um, I'm going to also lump Aura into that. Um, what WHOOP and Aura have figured out is some people just don't want another screen on their body. Uh, they want all the metrics and they want the in depth fitness or they want some degree of the fitness. They're just not trying to be bothered. I think it's just that they happen to be screenless devices at a time where a lot of people are having a certain degree of tech fatigue, where they don't want to be looking at another screen, possibly right in front of their eyes and glasses, and they want a little bit less distraction, a little bit more intentionality. And the market that WHOOP has basically catered to, which are hardcore fitness people, elite athletes, weekend warriors, people who are very kind of into the wellness space, naturally, those people have been kind of banging on the intention and intentionality drum for a long time. And for those people, screens are a destruction a lot of the time. But I've heard it from my readers too, who are just like, you know, there's just so much to look at on my phone. I'm just fatigued every day. The, the screen is small on the wrist, the battery life is not what I want. A WHOOP will last you like a month on a charge because they have a little battery pack that you just stick on the thing. The Garmin circa is 10 days, the Fitbit Air is about seven. So you don't really have to think about it. It's on your wrist, you don't have to think about looking at it. It's there. I have the OURA ring on here. It's also just there. And I think that's really kind of the thing that WHOOP tapped into, which is you can get all the data, same data. Maybe the GPS is not quite as good, but you don't really have to look about it or think about it. It's just there in the background. And turns out that's what a lot of people want.
[09:08]
A
Well, what's so interesting to me about that is that my confusion about WHOOP has always been that all of the things you just described, all of those upsides seem like they would make a lot of sense for casual people. Right? I don't need constant feedback on my fitness as I sit here at my desk in my basement for 17 hours a day, what I need is sort of a rough overall sense of how I'm doing. And so something like this that doesn't have a screen, that doesn't offer feedback, that doesn't buzz my wrist all the time, useful whoop appeals to people at the very top of the. I want to know how I'm like, whoop invented new scores for people and has come up with new metrics and is very much geared toward peak athletes doing peak athlete kind of stuff. So the fact that those people a wanted that device not just for the stuff that it offered, but for the actual physical object in the way that it worked and that that's a growing trend among even sort of elite athletes, people who really care about this stuff is really fascinating and frankly, kind of surprising because everything else has been running towards bigger screens with more features that do more stuff. So the fact that next to that is this new thing rising even among those same people strikes me as a big change in this space.
[10:24]
C
It's actually, if you think about how the athlete brain works, it. I actually think it makes sense because it's about focus. Right. So when you have the screens, part of the reason why you have screens is engagement. So a smartwatch on a. On a run is going to be telling you data mid, mid run. It's going to be like, this is whatever now. Like, you have workout buddy and the Apple watch will interrupt if you choose. Like, some people like this, some people don't. But it'll interrupt a thing being like, great workout. You just hit your 10th whatever this month on an incline of whatever. And you know, some, for some people, that really takes them out. It's gonna kind of distract them from their focus.
[11:06]
A
Sure.
[11:06]
C
Um, so not having a screen, not having those metrics to look at, you can just be completely zoned in. Like when I'm running and I'm just like, I wanna stop. I don't like this. It's humid. Why am I doing this to myself? My mental trick and go to is to just focus on my breathing. So I'll be like one breath in, two out. And I'll play little games with my surroundings. And that's how you kind of lock into your body.
[11:30]
A
And then your watch goes, you did it. You ran two miles. And yeah, yeah.
[11:34]
C
And so like the watch you have, I've noticed in myself, I'll be like, oh, my God, how much is fucking lift on this run? Oh, God, I've only gone 0.05 and then, you know, I have to focus. Whereas if you don't have that screen, there's nothing for you to do but to focus on what's going on at the moment. It kind of makes sense for an athlete whose main priority is performance, focus and recovery to not have a screen, because the last thing you want, and I think, truly, I think this is a reason why professional sports leagues have not been into wearables on the, on the court, is that they don't want any distraction, they don't want any unfair advantage. And what is a screen going to do other than give you an unfair advantage? Whereas something that's screenless is just recording data.
[12:21]
A
So the last question I have on these devices in particular is, is there a technical trade off in there? You're describing what I would call big interface changes, right? That this is. This is a complete shift in how we think about using and looking at and interacting with these devices. And I'm for now, resisting the urge to connect that to much bigger stories about our relationship with technology that I want to get to in a minute. But I am curious purely from a. What can you do with these trackers kinds of trade off, is the Circa or the Fitbit Air sort of definitionally less powerful because of what it is than some of the other things? Like can. Can you do all of the things in one of these, you know, pill in a strap devices that you can in the biggest, fanciest smartwatches out there?
[13:09]
C
No, just because they are. So the trade off is that you are in some ways relying on your phone more. So you get these to not look at your phone or look at screens quite as much. But conversely, you are relying on your phone more because that's the only way you're going to view data, that's the only way you're going to be able to manage the settings. So it's a little weird in that it's counterintuitive, right? Because you can't do anything on this. Everything has to be done on the handy dandy phone, which is, is. Is like these are paired together. If you want to leave your phone at home while you're working out, sorry, buddy, you're not going to be able to do that. You have to take your phone with you because they don't have integrated gps, so that's going to be out there. You cannot call from your screened thing. So if you're in an emergency, I hope you have your phone on you and it doesn't go like falling down the mountain because like the circa does have live tracking. So you know, that's the feature that Garmin has so that you can notify your loved ones if something happens to you. Well, you best have your phone on you because otherwise it's just a fitness band. And you know, smart watch, it can do more than just track your fitness. This is just fitness. So it's in a way it's like a return to the dedicated instead of the multi use wearable. Okay.
[14:32]
A
And that makes me think that maybe the case Garmin made to you that this is a device existing Garmin owners might also want maybe makes some sense because my, my, my instinct was to be like, well, okay, if I own a really expensive smartwatch, why would I also want one of these cheaper, simpler things? But maybe it's for the reason you just described that there are, there are times where the one is useful and there are times where the other is useful. And actually ultimately they occupy really different spaces for sort of particularly like athletes who want this kind of data all the time.
[15:03]
C
Yeah. And I mean, I say this primarily about the Oura ring because a lot of people ask me like, can I get rid of my smartwatch and just use an aura ring? I think some people could, but there's a lot of people who are going to find that the best experience is to have a smartwatch and an aura ring. Or like, you know, I find that to be the most holistic use case. Again, I'm wearing five wearables today, so not necessarily the best judge about streamlining the number of devices I'm tracking on,
[15:37]
A
but that is, it does give you kind of a perfect feedback loop the aura into the watch gives you sort of in and output information all the time in a way that is really useful.
[15:48]
C
And I don't have to worry about battery so much. So the positive trade off with like you're not having standalone capability, you do have to rely on your phone more. The positive trade off is that the actual recording and the tracking, the battery life is massively increased. This guy, especially if you're running beta software on it, does not last as long as these guys do. So like we can measure battery life in like at least a week is the baseline for a screenless tracker. And this one is days.
[16:17]
A
I'm charging this Fitbit Air like every eight or nine days. And I have to say, it is wonderful.
[16:22]
C
It's great.
[16:22]
A
Yeah. And it's such, I don't know if this is the experience with. You have with all of these. You've obviously tested many more of these than I have. But the Fitbit Air is such a bully when its battery is dying. It's so funny. I feel like I get a notification like every hour when it's under 24 hours of battery life being like, your Fitbit's about to die. Hey David, your Fitbit's about to die. Charge your Fitbit. It's about to die. We don't have 24 hours left. And it's like, honestly, on the one hand it's great because it makes me remember to charge my Fitbit before it dies. But on the other hand it is so aggressive in reminding me. It's like if you don't wear if your Fitbit dies, you'll die. David, you have to charge it now.
[16:58]
C
Do is pretty aggressive on the Fitbit Air, but less so on the other ones.
[17:03]
A
But hey, at least you only have to deal with that like once every 10 days, right? Huge improvement.
[17:09]
B
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[17:50]
C
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[18:45]
C
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[19:18]
A
I do want to know how subscriptions factor into this, because every one of these that comes out, the accusation is it's a whoop doop. And they're like, okay, sure, but no subscription. And this is. I mean, I think it's still true that the main issue people have with Whoop and Aura, the two you mentioned, is that they're very expensive. Right? Like, the hardware is often very subsidized, but these things cost a lot, and they are not simple purchases to make. The Fitbit Air has a subscription if you want some of the AI stuff, but you don't have to have a subscription. The Circa, I think, doesn't have a subscription at all. How big a deal is that in these new devices?
[19:58]
C
So it's really interesting because I think we have to talk about premium and lux status markers when we talk about the subscription, because what Whoop and Aura do is that they market their devices as sort of like a lux premium
[20:13]
A
Aura in particular or in particular.
[20:15]
C
And, you know, it's a little bolstered by that because it's jewelry. Right. So you. It's technically jewelry, especially with the 5. I predict that this will be wedding bands for people in Silicon Valley. Just. That's just how it's going to be.
[20:28]
A
You're right.
[20:28]
C
Yeah. Because they're thinner now. They. They look pretty good. But so, you know, these are marketed as premiums, and everything is kind. Everything useful is paywalled. So with Aura, if you don't, technically the subscription is optional, but if you
[20:46]
A
don't, it's not like, let's just be honest. It's not.
[20:48]
C
It's really, let me say, like, you'd
[20:50]
A
be ridiculous to buy an Aura and not get the subscription.
[20:52]
C
Technically, you'll get three scores. Not that useful. Literally everything else is paywalled. Yeah. Whoop, they don't charge you for the hardware. You just pay a month, a monthly, slash, yearly subscription. And those are. There's like three tiers of whoop subscriptions now. And they're expensive. They just are. And you pay that every year. So, like, I've mapped it out in various reviews as to, like, how far your Buck bang for your buck is going to go at least with the Aura. You're kind of paying into a hardware price and then a very low monthly subscription, which is $6. People still very upset about that. Now they market those as premium status luxe. Celebrities wear them. You want to feel like a celebrity. That's kind of how they've marketed those. So the Garmin Connect subscription is around, is around $7 a month. And the Fitbit, you're going to pay around a $10 subscription on a monthly basis. I believe it's 99 for a year. Relatively cheap, but these are also much lower priced in terms of the hardware. The, the Fitbit Air is $99. The Circa is $199. So when you do the, the, there's some like multi dimensional math going on here, but when you do the calculations, this will cost you less. And the subscriptions are fully optional. And what's not paywalled is very, very minor. So the, the Air is going to paywall the AI and the adaptive fitness plan. Okay, whatever. A bunch of people are just gonna be like, all I want are my steps, bro.
[22:31]
A
Yeah. I've now spent a lot of time with Google Health's AI system and I can tell you you don't need to pay for that.
[22:36]
C
You really don't need to if you don't want to. If you want to, go, have at it. But if you don't want to, you're still gonna get everything that you would in terms of your data, your metrics.
[22:46]
A
Right.
[22:47]
C
And Garmin, Garmin's AI is I like the people at Garmin, but their AI is doo doo so far. It's like what you're getting for the subscription is like more nutrition log and AI summaries and you don't need either of those right now. What's not paywalled is a buttload of data. So in kind of in a shift, you're going from Whoop and Aura on the premium scale to Fitbit and Garmin going like, hey guys, you want something affordable? You want to go back to the roots of fitness bands and tracking. Yeah.
[23:23]
A
So you're actually kind of describing like not just a lower end version of the same kind of thing, but kind of a different category of device altogether. And like you said, It's a very 2012 category of devices. But I kind of mean that as a compliment. And this actually brings me to my big picture question about all of this. And this is where I want both Vsong wellness reporter and Vsong person who uses all of the Wearables. It also seems to me that we might just be due for a big pullback on where like showy technology on our bodies anyway. We've been on this relentless drive towards more bigger screens on our wrists. Everybody is assuming we want screens on our face. Screens everywhere. Everything is technology. What if, what if your jacket had technology in it that let you control your phone? Is. Is there something in this that suggests we are due for a spin back on that? That even if we want some of the things that that technology enables like health data and I don't know, headphones on our glasses, that actually what we want is much less screens and much less showy technology. Do you think this is a broader trend than just fitness trackers?
[24:35]
C
Absolutely. I. I think it's been building. Not like we're seeing this stuff come out now. Right. It feels like a trend now. Products are in development for a. I would say that these desires were planted a year, two years ago probably. Well, probably around two, maybe even three years ago. I started noticing it back then. Another whoop dupe that we haven't talked about is the amaze fit Helios band. And that's one that some readers have asked me about. And you know, one thing that Amazfit as a brand does, and if you don't know the brand, it's kind of like a more affordable brand from China where they do a lot of this sort of stuff. Great bang for your buck value from them. You know, for a couple years ago I got a Vergecast question where they were like, where did all the fitness bands go? And I went, that's a great question, where did they go? And it was basically just Chinese brands at that point in time with viable products on the market. Everyone else had been like smartwatches, yolo, let's go all in screens forever. Woo. And I think I saw an increasing number of people go like, hey, could you tell me about smart rings? Because I just feel really overwhelmed. And then, you know, these brands started coming out with this because I think that's where the people went. That's what people wanted. Aura and whoop started getting more traction, particularly in wellness influencer communities. And you know, a lot of people are getting their ideas of what to do for trackers now from running bloggers, health and Wellness people on TikTok giving them dubious misinformation. Which is why you should subscribe to my newsletter, Optimizer. That's kind of where they were getting these ideas from. Kim Kardashian having a sleeping contest with, I believe Gwyneth Paltrow, one of those people, they were just like, oh, let's have a sleep off. This is where they're getting their ideas from. And the irony is that Whoop and Aura have started stuffing so many features and so many metrics into these screenless devices that the data fatigue is. I have immense data fatigue right now. I'm like, what score do you want from me right now? You want me to give blood for what now? Yeah, you're tracking my pee. Because why, okay. Oh, that's why you're putting AI into things. Because now I have so much data, I don't know what to do with it, but at least I don't have to look at a screen.
[27:10]
A
Well, and I think next to that is very like screen fatigue and data fatigue are very much running in parallel. So I guess maybe that explains why it seems to be hitting this particular space so quickly is that it is very much both of those things simultaneously and that we're going to get. We haven't even had smart glasses long enough to have the screen and data fatigue, but maybe smart people are going to see that coming before it gets here.
[27:36]
C
There is a certain type of person who is always going to want more, but there's a lot, a lot of people out here who are just like, I am overstimulated. I have way too much in my face at any given point in time. I don't need 60 biomarkers. The main reason is that people are so fatigued from the data that these devices are collecting, they don't know what any of these scores mean. And by and large, these devices are meant to help you track a baseline over a long period of time. You're not actually, actually the most useful way to, to, to use these devices is not to actually dig into the data every day, because if you're healthy, the data every day is gonna look the same. It's not really gonna change all that much. The change happens in like quarters, semesters, like months worth of time. It's not happening on a day to day or even a week to week basis. So they're really struggling right now to figure out what is the best bang for your buck, what is the best value. Because in order to justify a subscription, they're like, let's stuff more data in there. And then you stuff more data in there. And they're like, we have to invent new scores to contextualize the data for you.
[28:44]
A
This is what we just saw from Samsung with its new watches is they're like, here, look we have a bunch of new scores we can give you every day that don't really mean anything, but they're going to make you interact with our product more often. And that is by definition a good thing.
[28:57]
C
It's. It's a problem. They absolutely have not figured out the right balance of it yet.
[29:01]
A
It's a lot.
[29:02]
C
It's a lot. It's. It's way too much.
[29:04]
A
And I think I'm generally in favor of actually offloading all of that onto my phone. That there's something to at least like it's over there and I can get to it when I get to it, rather than have the thing on my wrist screaming at me all day. I'll take like that. That may not be the whole solution, but it does feel like part of it.
[29:19]
C
Yeah, it's, it's not perfect. Because I do think that the general thesis that you're going to have an ecosystem of wearables is what they've landed on is probably correct. Because on the one hand, I don't want to look at screens, but sometimes I do want to look at screens. And what if I want audio at some point? And what if I want to take notes discreetly? So I do think you're just going to have like six devices on you. I wrote an optimizer a while back about how I believe the wearable surveillance state is coming for all of us. And a bunch of people were like, that's just you. That's a you problem. And I'm like, right now it is. It's coming for all of us buddies.
[29:56]
A
No, I think you're right. And the hope is this is the beginning of a bunch of these companies unwinding that idea and realizing that actually not only is that not the way to get people, it's a way to actively lose people. And I think the hope I get from this trend is that maybe these companies have figured out how to keep you engaged without over optimizing you to the point that everyone just wants to walk away.
[30:21]
C
Not all of us are meant to be. Brian Johnson. Like, we can't, we can't live that life.
[30:26]
B
Nor should we.
[30:27]
A
Amen to that on so, so many levels. All right, Vy, we gotta get outta here. Thank you. Good to see you as always.
[30:33]
C
Thank you.
[30:34]
A
All right, that's it for the show. Thank you to V for being here. And thank you as always, for watching and listening. As a reminder, if you have thoughts, feelings, questions, if you have a wearable you'd like to see if, frankly, if you miss the Nike Fuel band and the Jawbone up as much as I do. I would love to hear about it. Email vergecasthevirj.com call the hotline 866-verge11 send us all your thoughts and feelings. It's my favorite. And as a reminder, the best thing you can do to support all of this is to subscribe to The Verge. The Verge.com subscribe it gets you all of our podcasts ad free, including this one. It gets you all of our exclusive newsletters. It gets you all of our coverage of wearables and everything else. Theverge.com thank you in advance. The Vergecast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. The show is produced by Josh Kahas, Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer and Travis Larchuk. We'll see you tomorrow. Rock and roll
[31:25]
B
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