In this conversation, Richard and Vernon discuss the need for manual test cases and manual testing in the future, particularly in the context of the rise of no code automation and AI.

They explore the underlying skills and activities involved in testing, such as critical thinking, analysis, communication, and understanding oracles and heuristics. They also touch on the importance of context and problem-solving in determining the appropriate testing approach. The conversation highlights the value of automation as a means to offload effort and gather information, rather than as an end in itself. In this conversation, Richard and Vernon discuss the importance of automation in testing and how it helps confirm the tester's knowledge of the system.

They also explore the concepts of glue work, quiet quitting, and quality engineering. Vernon shares his upcoming talk on setting quality engineers up for success and the challenges they face in organisations. They discuss the positioning of testers and the need for a cultural shift towards quality engineering. They invite listeners to share their thoughts and feedback on the topics discussed.

00:00 - ⚽️ Footy (1 min)
00:39 - Intro
01:54 - How will low-code and no-code automation tools impact the need for manual testers and manual test cases?
07:50 - How does Generative AI and/or Large Language Models (LLMs) change the answer?
20:39 - Issac Asmimov tangent!
21:18 - SPOILER ALERT! PLEASE SKIP IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE INCREDIBLE ISAAC ASIMOV STORY "PROFESSION" (I HOPE BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO READ IT YOURSELF!)
24:27 - SPOILER END!!!
33:07 - Vernon's talk: How We're Setting Up QEs To Fail

Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:

07:50 - AI, Generative AI and Large Language Models (LLMs)
- Useful material:
  - Microsoft course AI for Beginners
07:50 - Dr Tariq King
- Tariq's LinkedIn
07:50 - Melissa Eaden
- Melissa's LinkedIn
09:52 - The book AI-Assisted Testing by Mark Winteringham
- Grab the book here
- Mark's website
- Mark's LinkedIn
10:53 - Knowledge work
- Our previous discussion on Knowledge Work in Episode 1
- A definition of knowledge work from Wikipedia
13:59 - Vernon's Scripting Vs Exploring workshop he delivered at the European Testing Conference (ETC)
14:03 - ETC (organised by Maaret Pyhäjärvi) is now sadly on hiatus
27:26 - Doug Hoffman and High Volume Automated Testing (HiVAT)
- An explanation of HiVAT by Cem Kaner
- Doug's LinkedIn
33:25 - The Agile Yorkshire meetup organised by Royd Brayshay
- The Agile Yorkshire website
- Royd's LinkedIn
33:59 - Cassandra H. Leung
- Cassandra's blog
- Cassandra's LinkedIn
34:22 - Tanya Reilly
- Tanya's website
- Tanya's Glue Work presentation which you can read or watch
- Tanya's LinkedIn
37:22 - "What Is Quiet Quitting?" a BBC News article describing the phenomenon
38:23 - Jenna Charlton
- Jenna's LinkedIn
- The presentation I referred to is called: "Imperfect Agile: Lessons Learned From Embracing The Journey And Ditching The Rules". It was great and I'll see if Jenna is willing and able to share a link to it as soon as I can🙂
39:17 - Stuart Day
- Stu's Quality Talks podcast that he co-hosts with Chris Henderson
- Stu's LinkedIn
- Chris's Linkedin
43:30 - Anna Baik
- Anna's LinkedIn
- Anna's quote that Maaret shared on LinkedIn