Call to action - How are you proving you can actually use this stuff? Certs? Stories? A suspiciously long list of tools on your CV? We want to hear what the market is asking of you right now, especially if you're hiring or job hunting. And if your CV says "I use Copilot", ask yourself the question before Rich does: so what? Drop us a message on LinkedIn and let us know.

AI is becoming an expectation rather than a differentiator. So if everyone is using it, how do you actually stand out?

In this episode, Richard and Vernon discuss the changing job market, why simply saying "I use AI" no longer means much, and how to demonstrate real value in an industry that's changing faster than ever. From AI certifications and CVs to storytelling, trust, and communicating your impact, they explore what professionals should be focusing on next.

**In this episode:**

* Why AI is no longer enough to make you stand out
* The return of certifications—and whether they matter
* How to communicate your value beyond your CV
* Why impact beats tool lists every time
* Building with AI vs. building AI
* The skills that will matter most in the years ahead

If you enjoyed the discussion, don't forget to like, subscribe, and let us know your thoughts in the comments. How are you proving your value in the age of AI?

Chapters
00:00 - Intro
01:19 - Welcome (Tees, Tiles, Travel, and Trouwen)
05:15 - Where should you place your bets right now?
08:29 - Wait, certifications are back?
11:50 - Do you still have your GCSEs on your CV?
13:34 - The three flavours of AI work
15:43 - Vern's guide to surviving the trust recession
20:04 - The AI etiquette flip nobody announced
21:27 - How to blow an opportunity in one DM
26:05 - Here comes the trough of disillusionment
29:53 - Rich's two-word CV test
32:31 - Manual, skilled, or knowledge work? (Vern's ATD talk preview)
35:58 - Testing has been rehearsing this for decades
40:15 - CV bullets that make Rich want to interview you
44:01 - How good at AI are you, really?
46:05 - The four levels Vern pinched from Dan North
48:30 - "It's my mission": how Rich works with AI
51:30 - The skill nobody's talking about
52:45 - Next time: who's looking after all these agents?
58:10 - Wrap up

Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod

01:31 - OfferZen (who are still around - yay!) sponsored one of the Let's Test events in South Africa. The speakers got a tee for presenting!
- I would love it if we could figure out a way to run Let's Test South Africa again because it was an incredible event…
03:05 - Congratulations Beren and Elaine! ❤️
- Other notable guests from the software world included:
  - Cassandra H. Leung (website and LI)
  - Ard Kramer (LI)
  - Zeger Van Hese (LI)
  - Viola Korte (LI)
  - Geert van de Lisdonk (who Vernon rudely didn't mention but can also be found on LI 🤦🏾‍♂️)
05:47 - John Cutler
- John talks about Bets, Boards, Missions and North Stars from 2021 but if you want to read something more recent…
- … you should check out John's newsletter
- John's LinkedIn
08:52 - Anthropic's certifications (or learnings at least)
08:20 - Google's AI certifications (or learnings at least)
- BE ADVISED: These may not be the same ones Rich mentioned - YMMV!
12:12 - Chris Armstrong
- Chris's blog
- Chris's podcast The Testing Peers (of PeersCon fame!)
- Chris's YouTube
- Chris's LinkedIn
21:27 - Gergely Orosz aka The Pragmatic Engineer
- Here's the post about AI-written messages and it turns out Gergely had another example of this happen more recently 😬
- The Pragmatic Engineer newsletter
- Also, if by some miracle you're reading this Gergely, I've learned how to pronounce your name properly now 🤦🏾‍♂️🙏🏾 VR
26:05 - The Gartner hype cycle (peak of inflated expectations, trough of disillusionment)
32:20 - Vernon's talk at Agile Testing Days 2026 If Testers Had a Dragon's Den Pitch, Would Anyone Invest?
- Hit him up for a discount code!
44:01 - An X post about how companies are talking about AI proficiency at the org level
46:05 - Dan North's talk on dynamic teams and skill levels
- It turns out (because Dan) he's done several talks on this topic!
  - There's this (the first one I watched and the one Vernon had in mind)… and you can see the levels part here but honestly watch the whole thing because it's great
  - There's also this which is a bit more recent and he explains it differently to the first talk
55:11 - OpenAI's article on harness engineering