In this episode, Richard and Vernon delve into the complexities of Quality Assurance (QA), Quality Engineering (QE), and testing in software development. They explore the evolution of these concepts, their interrelations, and the importance of metrics in assessing quality. The conversation highlights the need for a holistic approach to quality, emphasizing that both prevention and detection of bugs are essential. The hosts also discuss the challenges of defining these terms and the future of quality in the industry.

Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:

08:50 - Dan Ashby
- We're referring to Dan's's excellent post called "Continuous Testing" (featuring his famous diagram!)
17:13 - Jit Gosai
- Jit's blog
- Jit's Quality Engineering Newsletter
- Jit's LinkedIn
19:24 - Quality Talks Podcast
- Stu's Quality Talks podcast that he co-hosts with Chris Henderson
- Stu's LinkedIn
- Chris's Linkedin
19:55 - The Testing Peers podcast
22:00 - DORA Metrics: DORA metrics are a set of key performance indicators developed by Google’s DevOps Research and Assessment team to measure the effectiveness of software delivery and DevOps processes, focusing on both throughput and stability
26:13 - A link from Episode 10 where Vern discusses Glue Work (be sure to check out the show notes on that episode)
- Quick overview of DORA metrics
34:43 - The Credibility Playbook
- A video course by Vernon as he experiments with building digital products.
  - Check it out and let him know what you think of it! 😊
46:24 - Ali Abdaal
- Ali's website
- Ali's YouTube

00:00 - Intro

01:36 - Welcome

02:40 - Today's topic: What the hell is QA? QE? Testing? And is it all changing?

03:00 - Why is this bugging Rich?

05:11 - Fruit fly tangent 🍌🍊🍎🪰🐝🦋

06:27 - Rich's take on QA, QE, and Testing

08:31 - Vern's take on QA, QE, and Testing

11:15 - Is shift-left testing the same as QE?

13:05 - When the team tests early... is that QE then?!

16:18 - What's the big deal if we can’t define QE clearly?

19:27 - Why the Efficiency Era makes this even harder

22:55 - Trying to draw the Testing, QA, QE, Venn diagram

27:24 - Getting the QA, QE, Testing blend just right. What's the right mix?

29:52 - The kinds of work we take on as our careers grow

34:08 - What Testers get rewarded for

45:34 - How Ali Abdaal helped Vern think differently about quality

48:18 - Rich talks measurement