E1095 - Age of Attraction w/ Libby, Vanelle & Justin, Mormon Wives, The Oscars, RHOBH & Southern Hospitality

Summary

The Viall Files – Reality Recap

E1095: Age of Attraction w/ Libby, Vanelle & Justin, Mormon Wives, The Oscars, RHOBH & Southern Hospitality

Published: March 17, 2026
Host: Nick Viall
Co-Host: Natalie Joy
Guests/Panel: Libby, Vanille, Justin, Leia, Danny, Sierra, Andrew

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Episode Overview

This episode is a lively "Reality Recap" edition that features a deep dive into the first drop of Netflix’s new hit dating show Age of Attraction with cast members Libby, Vanille, and Justin. The group dives into first impressions and the inner workings of relationships with age gaps, plus behind-the-scenes on fan-favorite moments and cast dynamics. The panel also dishes on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, recent Oscars moments, updates from Real Housewives of Beverly Hills (RHOBH), and the latest drama on Southern Hospitality. The tone is fun, intimate, and often laugh-out-loud, but the panel also doesn't shy away from honest and sensitive discussions about relationships and pop culture.

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Age of Attraction: Key Discussion & Cast Insights

Background and Format

• “Age of Attraction” is a hit show climbing the Netflix charts (“#3 on Netflix!” – [01:56] Sierra).
• The hosts are excited about the buzz:

  “Everyone seems to really be enjoying it. Most importantly binging it. Whether you’re a lover or a hater, you seem to be locked in which is all we really care about…” – [02:17] Nick

• Two new episodes drop Wednesday; the cast and hosts preview and analyze episodes 2–5.
• Special guests Libby (23), Vanille (28), and Justin join to unpack their journeys.

Notable Quotes & Cast Moments

• “I’m team Vanille.” – [03:20] Vanille
• “We can let [fans] be whatever they want to be. Nick and I are not picking sides because they are all our children.” – [03:24] Natalie Joy

Age Reveals and Surprises

• The show includes dramatic age reveals.

  “Who were you most shocked by?” – [20:17] Vanille
  “Jorge probably. …When he said 60, I was like, yeah, no, I didn't see that one coming!” – [20:18] Sierra

• Cast reflects on personal reactions and the broader discussion of age-gap relationships.

Safety, Vulnerability, and Lived Experience

• Nick and panel reflect on dating after hardship:

  “So much of falling in love again later in life is that, like, does this person know what I’ve been through? Can they relate to these experiences? … If they can’t, you really feel like that person can’t relate to you.” – [21:46] Nick

• They discuss how age and experience affect relationships (“You can have life experiences at a younger age,” [24:24] Danny).

Sex, Boundaries, and Intimacy

• The now-viral Teresa and John “sex scene” is discussed, both for its intimacy and the vulnerability of airing such moments.

  “In that moment, Teresa is a hero for all the people…who are made to feel like they can’t just get their brains fucked out of them.” – [27:42] Nick

The Jorge & Vanille Drama

• Celibacy Discussion: Vanille’s boundary and how Jorge struggled to “get on the same page” ([60:10-65:44]).

  “She has a hard line that she understands in her brain…and it’s hard for her to communicate that to Jorge and he is…talking at her rather than with her.” – [57:44] Vanille “It’s hard when you communicate your expectations that you use language that isn’t confusing.” – [58:02] Nick

• Conflict About Masculinity:

  “He was like, this is what I’m gonna do (stand up to a stranger), and I would love for you, my partner, to back me up… and you both seemed to, like, have a hard time.” – [85:23] Nick
  “That was the first time that I saw a different side to Jorge…In my mind, I’m like, you’re very grown.” – [84:13] Andrew/Vanille

Justin: Fan Favorite

• Justin reflects on filming (“I was worried I had been too vulnerable or dead… but once I saw everything, it was really kind of beautiful to watch.” – [42:26])
• On public reaction:

  “Prepared that everybody was going to be super mean… and it hasn’t been that so far. Knock on wood. Everybody’s just reached out and has been super nice.” – [43:18]

• “Do you feel like you felt an age difference between you and Vanill?”

  “I did. I could feel an age difference, but not like a prohibitive one… She’s actually really intelligent and has a high EQ.” – [52:39]

Romantic Moments:

• Many recall Justin’s suave kissing scene (“You have a smolder, man!” – [50:55] Leia) and his overall emotional intelligence.
• On the infamous massage date:

  “Was she supposed to massage you next?”
  “Yes, she did massage me next, but they cut that part out.” – [48:23–48:30]

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Extended Cast Interview Highlights

Libby & Vanille Tell All ([70:08–96:26])

• Libby: “I was coming on here to find my husband. There was nothing else…”

• On Andrew’s age and having children:

  “The main thing was just me trying to process his age and the fact that he had kids…It takes a really secure person to be open to weaving yourself into someone’s already existing life.” – [91:07]

  • She was shocked to be closer in age to Andrew’s daughters (12 & 14) than Andrew himself ([78:41–80:27]).

• Vanille: “Justin was very similar to the type of guys I’ve dated… Jorge was different…very outgoing, brought out a goofy side of me.” – [73:56]

• She shares about her own boundaries with celibacy and why the relationship with Jorge was ultimately not sustainable.

  “Ultimately I think age did play a factor in our relationship. …He just had these experiences, he feels he knows best.” – [83:39–84:14]

• On Criticism of Age Gaps:

  “It wasn’t like, here he is, this older guy and I’m this younger girl following him around…intellectually, we really met in the same space.” – [92:32] Libby

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Reality TV and Pop Culture Panel

Oscars Recap ([09:25–14:07])

• The group celebrates Michael B. Jordan’s win, discusses the performative nature of Oscar campaigning, and notes diversity in genre nominations (“It was a win for the divas, was Amy Madigan’s role, and it was a horror movie, so it’s really cool to see it.” – [13:03] Leia).

Real Housewives of Beverly Hills ([05:00–06:31, 108:24–111:22])

• “It feels like two episodes left to try to make something.” – [05:11] Leia
• “What the entire season is about is one comment made in episode one…” – [05:35] Natalie Joy
• Kathy Hilton brings standout “read the room” moments.

  “We know now we get these very clippable, like, moments from Kathy.” – [109:13] Nick

Secret Lives of Mormon Wives ([98:04–107:18])

• The panel is exasperated by the focus on the dads/husbands:

  “Season 4 feels like in the Barbie movie when the Kens take over Barbie land. Like, it’s just mojo dojo.” – [98:18] Sierra

• There is a repeated theme of emasculated husbands, TikTok “dad talk” bits, and the challenge of keeping up with these women’s rise to fame.

Southern Hospitality ([111:30–116:53])

• The group likens the energy to early Vanderpump Rules:

  “They are like the old Vanderpump … the cast of Southern Hospitality, you’re in a very almost grateful way as fans. You’re like, I don’t think that’s in your best interest, but thank you for doing that on tv.” – [111:43] Nick

• The complex friendships, betrayals, and hot dog drama gets airtime.

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Notable and Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Whether you’re a lover or a hater, you seem to be locked in which is all we really care about…” – [02:17] Nick
• “In that moment, Teresa is a hero for all the people, specifically the ladies right there and anywhere in her age gap who are made to feel like they can’t just get their brains fucked out of them.” – [27:42] Nick
• “I was going into this, like, prepared that everybody was going to be super mean and… it hasn’t been that…” – [43:18] Justin
• “He brought out a little bit of excitement out of me and brought out a goofy side of me…” – [73:56] Vanille
• “I kind of felt like that wasn’t something that I experienced with younger guys or guys my age. …He was so much more relatable to me…” – [93:13] Libby
• “Age did play a factor in our relationship.” – [83:47] Vanille

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro and Show Overview: [01:32–04:44]
• Age of Attraction Recap – Major Plot Points: [20:10–66:32]
• Oscars Recap: [09:25–14:07]
• Temptation Island Trailer & Banter: [14:26–19:41]
• Justin In-Depth Interview: [42:11–56:13]
• Jorge & Vanille Drama Discussion: [57:11–66:32]
• Libby & Vanille Interview: [70:08–96:26]
• Secret Lives of Mormon Wives: [98:04–107:18]
• RHOBH Check-In: [05:00–06:31, 108:24–111:22]
• Southern Hospitality: [111:30–116:53]

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Final Thoughts

The panel’s open, humorous, and at times deeply personal conversations offer fresh perspectives on age-gap dating, intimacy boundaries, the realities of reality TV production, and what makes reality shows genuinely bingeable. The cast interviews are revealing and real, highlighting young women’s agency, the complexities of attraction across ages, and the importance of clear communication.

Whether you’re tuning in for advice, drama, or just to hear what’s new in reality TV, this episode is a vibrant, layered listen—full of genuine moments that go beyond the headline drama.

Transcript

[Natalie Joy]

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[Nick]

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[Sierra]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another fantastic episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by my very talented everyone thinks she's been hosting for years now. Wife Natalie Joy. Isn't she really a star? I told you all.

[Sierra]

Thank you.

[Nick]

You know, you knew what I would do. But like it's like, is this Natalie's first time hosting Age of Attraction? People seem to be enjoying it.

[Sierra]

It's number three on the Netflix top 10.

[Nick]

Yeah, I don't know about this Virgin river show or this other anime. They seem to have strong One Piece

[Danny]

is a really big.

[Nick]

Yeah, I know it's a big. I'm not hating it. I'm just, I'm just, I'm recognizing they, they, they are seem to be powerhouse shows.

[Danny]

I think you're a powerhouse show that's amongst One Piece.

[Nick]

But no, everyone seems to really be enjoying it. Most importantly binging it. Whether you're a lover or a hater, you seem to be locked in which is all we really care about and we have. So we're really excited about it. It's been a lot of fun. We'll obviously dive into some of these episodes. The first batch. We do have two more episodes of Age of Attraction dropping on Wednesday on Netflix. So we will talk about episodes I think 2 through 5 today along with our special guests Libby and Vanille join us to talk about their experiences. Obviously we have the very heated scene between Jorge and Vanille, which I thought was fascinating.

[Leia]

Yeah, it's super interesting.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And we also have fan favorite Justin gone too soon.

[Leia]

I'm so excited.

[Nick]

So we do ask Fennel if there's any chance that maybe she might pick up the call the phone call and reach out to Justin. So get. You'll get some answers there along with obviously the oral intimacy.

[Leia]

Yes.

[Sierra]

What does that entail?

[Leia]

Et cetera.

[Vanille]

I am team Vanille.

[Nick]

I don't think we have to be teams here.

[Vanille]

Team Vanilla.

[Natalie Joy]

We can let be whatever they want to be.

[Nick]

For sure. Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

You know, fans, Nick and I are not picking sides because they are all our children.

[Vanille]

Do I get to take sides? I'm a fan of 6 year old.

[Libby]

Jorge is our son.

[Justin]

Baby.

[Nick]

Baby Jorge is like a little baby Jorge.

[Leia]

Little baby six year old man.

[Nick]

I have seen like feedback. I mean, obviously there's so much I have not scoured the Internet. So I'm sure there's a lot of feedback. But some feedback I have seen which I was really happy to see and that's how I felt. Is that like it's a generally likable cat, but they get into complicated conversations that are fascinating that you may agree or disagree with. But we'll dive into it more later this episode. And we do have Justin, Libby and Vanel to unpack their experiences on Age of Attraction. We also have the new trailer from Tim for Temptation island, which I think drops.

[Natalie Joy]

After which I heard this season's an absolute banger.

[Nick]

Yeah. Really excited. I think we get some new Temptation.

[Leia]

I'm so ready for these slutty couples to break up on these beaches.

[Sierra]

That's a crazy tagline, but not wrong.

[Justin]

What?

[Nick]

It's tv, baby. Yeah.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Nick]

We also have the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. We're going to cover first. First two episodes and then they're also on the Internet. We'll get into that. What's going on? What's not going on? Are we.

[Danny]

Are we.

[Nick]

Are we tracking these ladies from a show standpoint? Are we tracking them from their social media? The news?

[Leia]

The timeline is more confusing than the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[Sierra]

We need Heather Gay here to put things in order.

[Vanille]

Yes, we do.

[Sierra]

I need a timeline I need receipts.

[Nick]

Yeah, it's. It's very confusing.

[Natalie Joy]

Also, Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. I just saw Andy Cohen tweet being like, send in your questions for the reunion. And everyone was like, we don't have any.

[Sierra]

I think we have two episodes left.

[Leia]

It feels like two episodes left to try to make something.

[Nick]

Say what you want about Amanda, but she is carrying this.

[Danny]

I love the show in general.

[Leia]

The thing is, she's carrying the season, but it's about as heavy as, like, you know, the clouds she's up in while she's.

[Natalie Joy]

What was the tweet you read that was like, this whole season is based off of Amanda saying something about Dorit's.

[Nick]

Amanda saying something mildly insensitive about Dorit's divorce.

[Natalie Joy]

What the entire season is about is one comment made in episode one.

[Sierra]

No, literally. And we're still on it where I'm like, sorry, Amanda didn't have to do much, but thank God she's on this season because what the hell else would we have had?

[Leia]

Sutton's entire storyline. I'm nice now.

[Danny]

Like, girl, I must be watching a different show. I'm eating this season up. Rachel Zoe, Sutton's annulment. Like, there's so much here. Beau sharing her infertility struggles, like, everything.

[Leia]

Yeah, I'm enjoying it. Just not much to like, discuss regarding drama.

[Nick]

Rachel showed up. She's like, I am burn my ex husband's reputation to the ground. Damn. Damn my children. Her saying she wants to die in shit. Damn my children's relationship with their father.

[Sierra]

And whoever the terrible girlfriend, truly, she's.

[Natalie Joy]

Her name never gets out there publicly.

[Leia]

It is an LA story. I'll give Beverly Hills that.

[Natalie Joy]

Well, I did buy river some chalk for. I actually bought it for her Easter basket.

[Sierra]

Cute. Cute. Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

And then I bought the 20 pack. It was the smallest pack they had. I felt like, you know, honestly, feels like a little much for a two year old, but sure, you know, maybe we'll give her one row of colors at a time and make it last for years. Well, then Nick all of a sudden gets a hold of it and I. This man stays in the backyard for the entire weekend doing murals on our. On our backyard sidewalk.

[Nick]

The exaggeration in that.

[Leia]

If that was true, though.

[Natalie Joy]

It is true. I love that it was beautiful. The only part that wasn't beautiful is 40 minutes. Maybe he wouldn't let river be included. He was like, rip, you're gonna.

[Nick]

You don't know how to her own square. You're messing up my own square.

[Sierra]

She kept trying to go into your square.

[Natalie Joy]

She's putting pink on the sky. It's not working.

[Leia]

You know what? I think that's a good lesson for her to learn. There's always gonna be, like, that bitchy girl in your class, and it's better to learn.

[Nick]

Am I the bitchy girl?

[Leia]

Yeah. You know, I think that's a good relationship for you guys to have.

[Natalie Joy]

But he told me this morning that he needs more colors. He said, I need some darker. I need some earthy tones.

[Nick]

I need some more colors.

[Vanille]

I'm here for this.

[Nick]

I got another one in the chamber. I whipped one up this morning.

[Leia]

Yeah. This is my favorite thing I've learned about you.

[Vanille]

I didn't know that you were an artist.

[Nick]

Yeah, I'm not.

[Danny]

You're an artist.

[Vanille]

You could not draw a mural like that.

[Natalie Joy]

You're good, you know, you're not selling artwork by any means, but you are an artist.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

You're artistic.

[Leia]

Do you feel, like, better when you do it? Do you feel more like yourself? More happy?

[Nick]

I enjoy doing? Do I feel more like myself?

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

Are you de stressing by doing?

[Nick]

I do. Yeah.

[Sierra]

Do you put on music? Is it, like a vibe? Are you zoned out? Like, what?

[Nick]

Do you had some music playing poolside yesterday? This morning I didn't put on any music.

[Sierra]

Yes. Today you were honed in.

[Nick]

No, I was more honed in this morning.

[Sierra]

That's what I mean.

[Danny]

Yeah. So, no, I think I did tell Natalie to buy you adult coloring books because I think, like, psychologically speaking, you can, like, de stress and release and decompress when you are coloring. Like, that's why there are adult coloring books.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I don't like crayon as a medium.

[Leia]

No.

[Danny]

But there's so many different forms of.

[Nick]

But what's so funny?

[Leia]

Are you more of a colored pencil guy? What are we working with?

[Sierra]

It was so serious. You came out of nowhere with cran. I don't. I don't like cran as a medium.

[Libby]

Medium.

[Natalie Joy]

The thing about Nick is that he doesn't want to use any art supplies if they are bought for him. Ah, Valentine's Day. A few years ago, I bought in, like, canvas, watercolor, paints, oils, pastel, all kinds of things. I'm like, you get back in that creative space. I think, honestly, it's all still.

[Nick]

Where is it?

[Natalie Joy]

So I think I have to buy an adult coloring book and be like, this is forever.

[Nick]

We gotta bring it.

[Natalie Joy]

No one does.

[Nick]

We gotta bring it.

[Natalie Joy]

I'll find him doing it.

[Nick]

The comment I appreciated the most was I reminded him from Bert. From Mary Poppins.

[Natalie Joy]

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[Danny]

All I have to say is those hating on Nick, engaging in the arts or sounding like Timothee Chalamet. And if you saw the Oscars, did you see that the Sinner's live performance brought out Misty Copeland? Honestly, A famous ballerina. Timothy was front row, and they brought her out.

[Nick]

Baby trolling him.

[Natalie Joy]

Did they put the camera on him?

[Danny]

Did they? I don't know if they put the camera on him, but it was pretty

[Nick]

like, if this is all good, clean fun, I am here for it. I think it's amazing that we can get a little goofy and not take ourselves too seriously. If this is. Like, I have so much more respect for Doja Cat over the weekend because we saw her, like, the heat for Timmy got a little hot. I mean, it started to get to the point where, like, whoa, calm down. What are we. What are we talking about here?

[Natalie Joy]

I mean, every celebrity was asked on the red carpet, like, what are your thoughts on Timothee Chalamet's recent comments about ballet and opera?

[Leia]

Oh, my God.

[Nick]

It was a little. It was a little heavy. And then Doja Cat posted some criticism and then posted and said, you know what? Honestly, fuck me. I honestly. I don't know why I said that. That was a little performative on my part.

[Natalie Joy]

She's like, I've never seen the ballet, and I've also never been to an opera show.

[Nick]

And that she was so real for, you know, just to, like, ride a wave. And I'm sure, like, you know, she was probably just having fun. But the criticism got, like, again, a little too serious and divisive. It was like, we're just. Come on.

[Sierra]

I was gonna say, it's like, if anything, kind of glad he made the comments, because I think it's putting a lot more spotlight on those two classic art forms than ever before. And it's the same thing that happened with Broadway. Remember when Covid. Everything. Everyone's like, broadway is dead. And then it's like, look at Broadway now. Everybody and their mother is trying to get on Broadway.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

So shout out to me.

[Nick]

He did maybe possibly ruin his Oscar chances, though.

[Leia]

Well, I mean, he was up against Michael B. Jordan playing Smoke and Stack.

[Natalie Joy]

He didn't play. He did play two people.

[Leia]

Yeah. Where his performance was incredible. He looked really great. Sinners.

[Natalie Joy]

Did he get an Oscar for Smoke or for Stack?

[Leia]

I think it was for both Smoke and for Stack and then two, actually. His speech was just, like, incredible. Or he just, like, you. You know, he so many People love Michael B. Jordan, and I do. I have always felt that, like, the world collectively has just seen him and been like, yeah, that's a good guy. And he, like, recognized that Smash would Smash. He's like, you guys do all think I'm, like, hot and talented and a good person, and, like, I want to live up to that for you.

[Natalie Joy]

Like, you keep bringing your mother to all of these award shows, and we do love that.

[Leia]

Yeah. And it's. It was just beautiful. And Sinners was so amazing, and I love Ryan Coogler so much, and I should have won best picture.

[Natalie Joy]

I watched Sinners, did not know that it was gonna be about vampires, and I was. Or the blues.

[Andrew]

Or the blues.

[Sierra]

Exactly.

[Leia]

It's like, two awesome things. Vampires and the blues.

[Sierra]

This is taking a turn.

[Natalie Joy]

Okay, so they're biting the necks. Yeah.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Leia]

And playing guitar and having sex. Like, it's a great movie.

[Nick]

Do you think. Do you think Tim's upset, or do you feel like he's.

[Leia]

Yeah, probably.

[Nick]

You think so?

[Leia]

Yeah, I would imagine he is. I do want him to have the same career that Leonardo DiCaprio has, where every. He's in the movie, he gets nominated, never wins, then he's in a movie that everyone's like, this one's fine. And then he wins. Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah.

[Leia]

That's kind of my. That's what I see for him. Little Timmy. Tim. Tim.

[Nick]

I just love how the. Winning the Oscar, we've really peeled back the curtains to how commercialized and performative this whole campaign is, and it seems to have almost nothing to do with the actual performances. It has so much to do with the.

[Danny]

The fundraising on the side.

[Nick]

The fundraising. The campaign, kissing all the different events and networking.

[Leia]

Yeah, it was interesting. This year, I noticed a lot in the speeches that Amy. Matt, like. Well, Amy Madigan won for her role in Weapons. It's amazing. She's amazing. It was a win for the divas was Amy Madigan's role, and it was a horror movie, so it's really cool to see it.

[Sierra]

When typical for a horror movie, even to be nominated, it's.

[Leia]

Oh, it's crazy. It's like silence of the. Like, it's. It's awesome.

[Vanille]

That really won.

[Leia]

It's really good that she won. Weapons was amazing. Her performance was just. But what I was gonna say is that it was so interesting. Her speech, as well as a lot of other ones, really focused on, like, all the relationships I've made on this campaign with my fellow nominees. So it was, like, very intentionally about, like, the community that they all kind of built together while campaigning to kind of. Instead of the sort of, like, empty, oh, it's an honor to be. Just be nominated with these nominees. They were like, no. These relationships we made while, like, at these press events and stuff is like, what's gotten us through? And I just thought that was interesting that they were, like, openly talking about it on the stage.

[Nick]

Well, shout out to all the nominees and the winners of last night's Oscars.

[Leia]

And Conan rocked.

[Nick]

Conan is an icon.

[Leia]

Conan was so funny.

[Nick]

Well, as we mentioned, we do have the new trailer for Temptation island coming soon on Netflix, following the new hit show Age of Attraction. So should we play this trailer?

[Vanille]

Yes, we absolutely should.

[Nick]

The bigger check.

[Libby]

Potentially some better sex and always being

[Natalie Joy]

hotter than your ex.

[Leia]

I'm gonna do it like that.

[Nick]

Welcome to Temptation Island. Like so many couples, you've reached a point where you need some clarity. Are you guys ready to meet your tempters and temptresses?

[Justin]

Yep.

[Danny]

Fired up.

[Libby]

Are you ready for it?

[Nick]

What a sight to see.

[Sierra]

I mean, come on.

[Nick]

Here on this island, you're gonna live apart, and you're gonna be surrounded by singles whose only mission is to tempt you. Oh, my gosh.

[Danny]

Admitting that I like this experience and this feeling feels selfish.

[Justin]

There's so many fish in the sea.

[Sierra]

Feels a little risky to be playing with fire right now. But I'm here for it.

[Nick]

What is there to feel guilty for? I'm invented the men who's a girlfriend. I just gotta shoot my shot how I need to shoot my shot. It's time for me to be selfish.

[Sierra]

He did what he did, and I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.

[Leia]

Would the father of my children make me feel this way?

[Justin]

Am I really such a boyfriend? I have a hard time acknowledging that

[Vanille]

in coming here and learning myself.

[Sierra]

It's time for me to focus on me.

[Vanille]

I know what I deserve.

[Nick]

This is love. If it were easy, we wouldn't be at Temptation Island. My goal is to walk out of here with her, but only time will tell. The temptation haven't is back. You're being bad. You guys are going to the other villa.

[Libby]

This is gonna be drama.

[Nick]

Oh, so he'd be in here.

[Leia]

He doesn't wanna put in that hard work.

[Libby]

Do you love me enough?

[Danny]

I'm here to figure out what's best for me.

[Nick]

And I think me and her are both finding that.

[Libby]

I'm sorry, kids.

[Nick]

This real life. A lot of man tears. I'm excited a lot.

[Natalie Joy]

It does feel like the women are womening this Season.

[Nick]

I think we're gonna get some man tears this season, which is very.

[Natalie Joy]

Because otherwise it's always like, the guys, like, being guys, and then the. Their partners being like, I can't believe

[Sierra]

I brought him to temptation.

[Natalie Joy]

And then you're like, come on, do something. And she's like, I'm just sad, and I think it's the other way around. I'm here for it.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Vanille]

Yeah. There's nothing I love more than watching someone regret their decision. Like. Like realizing that what they had was. Was so special. And then, like, oh, my God, I might lose it.

[Natalie Joy]

And listen, I'm boring.

[Sierra]

I'm probably going to be rooting for the couple that is tempted the least. Just like Alexa and Lena last season.

[Leia]

Oh, yeah.

[Sierra]

Obsessed with them. Obsessed with them. Still together?

[Leia]

Yes, they are still together.

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

I love their content. They are so cute.

[Leia]

I mean, yeah, I'm sure I'll be rooting for them, but I. As a lover of chaos, I'm also really gonna want to see these women on these men's necks.

[Danny]

Mary the guy fairly. That goes. You're being bad. Who's being bad?

[Leia]

Yeah, I want it. I won't. I.

[Natalie Joy]

That's her warning. She is a temptress.

[Danny]

Yes.

[Leia]

I want to see the temptress and the temptresses.

[Nick]

Well, kind of like vanilla from Age of Attraction when she goes to Jorge. You're dangerous, by the way.

[Vanille]

Can we come up with different Trouble.

[Natalie Joy]

You're dangerous.

[Andrew]

You're trouble.

[Vanille]

You're dangerous. You're bad. I don't.

[Natalie Joy]

I just use.

[Leia]

Use some cinnamon.

[Nick]

What would you. What do you want? What do you want?

[Vanille]

You're confusing me.

[Sierra]

That's sexy.

[Danny]

That's confusing.

[Justin]

Hot.

[Danny]

Suddenly I'm sitting down hot.

[Vanille]

You're so beautiful. Wow. What about I love you.

[Libby]

You're pretty.

[Leia]

I love you. Yeah. You make me feel warm inside. I feel safe.

[Nick]

You don't like your naughty.

[Vanille]

No.

[Leia]

No.

[Vanille]

Not even a little bit?

[Natalie Joy]

No.

[Vanille]

No.

[Justin]

No.

[Nick]

Well, if you haven't gotten tickets yet, we will be with this new cast of Temptation island live on May 4, so get your tickets while they last. The Netflix is a joke. Festival is coming to Los Angeles, and we are excited to be a part of it with the new cast of Temptation Island. So if you want to have a fun, messy, wild night out with your friends or your partner or yourself, we will be with that cast live. So get your tickets now. The link is in our show description. If you want to join us or go to vilefalls.com, you can do either. Don't forget that Last Friday we dropped a Going Deeper episode with Love is Blind's Amber and Brittany. And we get a lot of the tea behind the divorce of Amber and Jordan as well as the breakup between Devonte and Brittany. That is all on the Going Deeper episode that dropped on Friday show. Be sure to check it out if you haven't already. Also, don't forget that Vile Files plus is ad free and you can get all your Vile Files episodes ad free. Now, in addition to the amazing content that we're putting out there, including our reality recap deep dives where we will dive deeper into episodes. I think we're going to dive into some secret lives of Mormon wives as well as Age of Attraction this week. Maybe get some Bravo as well. We also have our Pop Extra roundup where we discuss the very important logistics of Oscar award winning season.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Amongst many other things. Also, I believe we didn't even talk about it this episode, but Miley Cyrus, Hannah Montana.

[Leia]

Oh, Justin and I actually Devil Wears Product two, Justin and I did get

[Nick]

into a lot of stuff that we will get into. Plus your update specials where you get your favorite updates from your favorite Ass Nick episodes all on Vile Files Plus. So go to vilefiles.com to join. All right. Should we get into some Age of attraction?

[Vanille]

Yes, please.

[Natalie Joy]

So we now know everyone's age.

[Leia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

Which everyone's age.

[Sierra]

A fun reveal. Not gonna lie.

[Vanille]

Who were you most shocked by?

[Sierra]

Jorge probably. Yeah, I was like between, I was guessing like 50, maybe 45 to 50. And then when he said 60 I was like, yeah, no, I didn't see that one coming.

[Leia]

Nope.

[Natalie Joy]

No.

[Leia]

That man's got an ARP card.

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Didn't realize that.

[Danny]

I love all of them, to be honest. I feel like I resonate obviously with Libby and Pfeiffer because I feel like those are people that I understand like vibe wise and energy. But at the same time I love the rest of the couples.

[Natalie Joy]

I really like Derek.

[Sierra]

Yeah, Derek's cool.

[Danny]

Yeah. Theresa Love Teresa.

[Sierra]

Love Teresa.

[Natalie Joy]

And John.

[Sierra]

I'm just so, I'm like so curious for like the next drop is like introducing to her family. She's having like a full on freakout at the end of the last episode and I was like, girl, I get it. I get it's like reality. You're living in this fun fantasy but then it's like making shit real. Like I'm like, I cannot wait to see the introduction to the friends and family.

[Nick]

Well, another interesting element of this show, you know, I think there's always all this type of discourse when it comes to relationships and age differences. And I think a lot of time, especially, like, online, you know, the people who are critical will sometimes lean into the power discrepancy between the older person and the younger person. And I think what's fascinating that we're seeing, especially with, like, Teresa and some of the. Some of the women, even Jolene, is that, like, a lot of the. Like, you see Teresa a lot of times talking to Jonathan or Jolene talking to Wes, and it's. And. And they really want to know, like, how much pain, like, what have you been through?

[Danny]

Right.

[Nick]

You know, like, are you like, yeah, it's. A lot of it has to do with life experience, but it's usually centered around, can I actually, you know, is my heart safe with you? Right. Like, and so you want someone like the west character, Right? Like, I think he's. Jolene's attractive.

[Danny]

I have a crush on Jolene, by the way. Instagram. She's hot.

[Leia]

She's hot.

[Nick]

She's a babe. She's a total babe. Right? And I. And I think there really is a chemistry there. But when you see the reason why ultimately, I think she, you know, rejected him is because he was very much giving off this kind of, like, listen, like, you know, let's.

[Danny]

If.

[Nick]

Let's feel good. It's. Let's, you know, I. I'm. I'm into you. What could go wrong? You know, and she's sitting there at 49 years old with. She's a mom, an ex husband, a career. She's like, let me tell you what can go wrong. Like, a lot can go wrong. You know, when you've been in relationships and you give your heart to someone, and even if it's like, you know, it's always someone's fault, but, like, you know, now nowadays we're in these, like, you know, when people break up, someone has to be labeled a narcissist or some kind of, like, terrible person. No, you can just have two people get it wrong, grow apart. Grow apart. And there's a lot of hurt and there's a lot of pain. And I think sometimes you're seeing. I think, you know, like, Teresa, a lot of people relate to her because, like, so much of falling in love again later in life is that, like, does this person know what I've been through? Can they relate to these experiences? Because if they can't, you know, even regardless of what age they are, if they've never had their heart broken, if they've never, like, had to really deal With a painful breakup, it. You really feel like that person can't relate to you and, or they're just very cavalier, but it's just like, whatever, let's just move in, you know, like, what, what could the, what's the. You know, And I, I find that to be really fascinating because, you know, when I met Natalie, it sounds weird to say, but the more I learned about her dating life and more I learned about like some unfortunate periods that she had to go through, the more I honestly felt safer opening up to her and, and moving through with our relationship.

[Leia]

Because, you know, she's not going to be careless.

[Nick]

Yeah. Because she, like, she had been through a lot of also painful experiences in her life because. And it just makes you feel safer. And I think that's such a fascinating part about this show that I really enjoy because that's something that a lot of times early in relationships we don't talk about or acknowledge.

[Natalie Joy]

I was just gonna say, I, I mean, it's kind of like when west was like, I'm 30, 31 or whatever. However old, I think she's like, I definitely thought you were younger than that. And he's like, thank you. That's not a compliment. She thinks you're immature.

[Danny]

Yeah, I was gonna say Nick. Cause I thought about this too, of like how you can have life experiences at a younger age, but at the same time you can be older person in that age gap relationship and not have had those life experiences. Because then you see, like, you see in those dynamics of, okay, maybe me as the younger person, like, I'm going about this in a more quote unquote mature way than like, you are and like you have the history of dating younger people. It's like, I feel like, you know, like, it goes both ways, which is fascinating.

[Nick]

Well, and again now, you know, hookup culture has been more and more prevalent. So you look at someone like west, he's 31, that's not that young. Yeah, like, he's, he's, he's in his 30s.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like 20 years ago you were a few years away from being a grandfather, you know, but now it's just like crazy now. You know, a 31 year old man, he's been boing maybe for 10 years. You know, there's a good chance he's never really been in a serious relationship. It's.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I think he mentioned he had lived with someone before, but we don't really know. He's giving. It was very unserious. Like he's not, he, he doesn't move Like, a guy who's like. Like, really been up in a relationship by someone, you know, and he has this kind of very, like, again, cavalier approach. And then you look at, like, John and Teresa and, like, so many of their conversations that she's just like. She's really listening to his answers because she just wants to know how safe she is to trust, you know, letting go and just, like, falling for this guy. And it's one. You know, you can tell when Teresa's talking to John that while it's good right now, she knows what it's like to live past a honeymoon phase, to get into a relationship. And she, you know, and it's unclear at this point in the show whether John can relate to that. And I think that's what's so fascinating about it.

[Leia]

We have Teresa who's talking to John about her son being two years older than him. And it's like, that's definitely gonna make you think about a lot and really process that. Listen a lot.

[Nick]

There's no way I'll say it.

[Danny]

It's weird.

[Natalie Joy]

It's also.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

It's a constant reminder.

[Leia]

Yeah. What do you do? And it's just like, is. Are your feelings for this person, like, stronger than whatever, like, Freudian, like, thing that's happening in the back of your mind?

[Nick]

And it's her children.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, it's one thing for Nally to be like my older sister, who my whole life was always so much older than me, is my. Is closer in age to my husband. But it's like, okay, sure. Your sibling, like, it's child like that. That can weird. You get over that when it's your kid. Tougher to get over.

[Leia]

Yeah. Because you're. Yeah. I couldn't imagine it, but so. But it's like, it's such an interesting experience. And you have. I think a lot of people have these thoughts about, like, the kind of person who, like, would do that. And, like, they're like, weird and up or whatever. But then you look at Teresa and you're like, that's a wonderful, beautiful human being. Like, she seems amazing. And so it's like, a really fun. I don't know, it's a really interesting dynamic to watch and, like, learn from.

[Natalie Joy]

Then also, we had a sex scene with Jason. John, which. Tell me how. You tell me what you want. And he says, I want you.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Vanille]

The way I would be mortified.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

No, us.

[Nick]

Leah, let's not shame our cast.

[Vanille]

I'm not shaming her. I would just be mortified for a private Intimate moment like that to be aired on national television.

[Nick]

I think in that moment, Teresa is a hero for all the people, specifically the ladies right there and anywhere in her age gap who are made to feel like they can't just get their brains fucked out of them.

[Danny]

People have sex with.

[Vanille]

They did not know that that was gonna air.

[Natalie Joy]

No, they definitely did not know that that was there. But they were told that there were mics in the apartment. Yeah, yeah, they were told. So when she said, tell me what you want, and he said, I want you, and then they knew that was on record.

[Leia]

I do think if. That. If I hear myself, that's what I

[Sierra]

would be in the intimate moment.

[Leia]

I would walk into an opening.

[Vanille]

That's literally what I'm talking about.

[Libby]

Yes.

[Natalie Joy]

And I will say, and I've said this a million times, we feel very protective over this cast, obviously. Like, we look at it a little bit differently than maybe we look at some other shows that we recap. And when I did hear that, I was like, oh, my God, Teresa, I want to, like, just. I know.

[Nick]

I hope she feels no shame.

[Natalie Joy]

You are just gonna be.

[Vanille]

Well, because the whole time she's like,

[Natalie Joy]

worried about her kids opinion, and then now I'm like, her kids are gonna hear mommy moan. Kids are gonna. No, I don't want to hear.

[Vanille]

I don't want anybody in my life to hear me moan other than Danny.

[Nick]

When you think about your creation, don't you hope that your parents enjoyed themselves?

[Danny]

Did you guys not accidentally almost walk in on your parents ever?

[Nick]

No.

[Danny]

Nick, you never did that. They had like nine chances for you to walk.

[Nick]

One of my best friends walked into my mom having a baby. What? Yeah.

[Vanille]

Was she having a baby in the house?

[Nick]

The last three births, My mom chose to have home births. You know, after she was like, I

[Natalie Joy]

just might as well try some other things out.

[Vanille]

Oh, my God.

[Nick]

I was a junior in high school, and, you know, it was at the time where your friends that I kind of feel very comfortable walking in and out of your friends houses and like, where was she?

[Vanille]

Yeah.

[Leia]

What.

[Vanille]

What stage?

[Nick]

I don't think he saw anything he couldn't come back from, but.

[Vanille]

Oh, God.

[Sierra]

So no crowning.

[Natalie Joy]

He's like, I was holding her leg. I was helping.

[Vanille]

But he's an ob GYN now.

[Leia]

He ended up being a doula.

[Nick]

Yeah, I think he's an accountant.

[Natalie Joy]

But then on the flip side, we have Vanessa and Logan, who. She's like, babes, I'm friend zoned. What's going on here? I need some action to Be with

[Nick]

what are we worth words that one

[Leia]

to have to be Vanessa and who, by the way? Vanessa. Love that girl.

[Natalie Joy]

Love, love her.

[Leia]

Love her down to be like, finally with your, like, hot guy that you've gotten, and then he's acting like your roommate.

[Natalie Joy]

But then his answer was, like, definitely respect him.

[Andrew]

Like, I don't.

[Natalie Joy]

You know, it was like, okay, she

[Nick]

doesn't want to be the way the.

[Vanille]

I don't want you to.

[Nick]

The double standard that we have when if a guy is waiting to be intimate the way we, like, are like, what's wrong wrong with you, dude?

[Sierra]

Well, that's just going to say too. It's been kind of interesting is seeing, like, the younger men on this show

[Natalie Joy]

where I feel like.

[Sierra]

I don't know how, like, just, like, raised in a way to where it's like, understanding consent, understanding respect. And it's, like, really interesting to watch. Or even Leah and Chris, like, it's like Chris being like, I have my routine.

[Natalie Joy]

I like to be left alone.

[Sierra]

Like. Like, this is a lot for me. And like, she's just like, I just want somebody to sit on the couch and love me. And it's like, it's just very interesting seeing where different people are at. And then it really doesn't have anything to do with their age. It's just, like, what they're looking for in a relationship. But it is very interesting to me seeing these, like, young, hot men that are like, I just wanted to take my time and respect you. And I'm just like, okay.

[Nick]

I think you see that with Logan, with Chris, I think you will. More will be revealed.

[Sierra]

Chris, I'm not saying, yeah, like, in the sense of gentleman, but I just think it's really interesting that he's so, like, regimented and, like, like, set in his ways.

[Leia]

I guess he just seems very selfish.

[Nick]

Keep in mind, when these people are filming, they have no phones, they have no tv, they have no friends and family. It is, you know, like, love is blind or like the Bachelor. And, you know, it. It is a. This isn't an experiment. And they are creating an environment to maximize these people's feelings. So for. For Chris to be like, well, I'm going to the gym and I'm gonna go take a shower, you know, and

[Natalie Joy]

I'm gonna take a nap.

[Nick]

Like, the goal is to quality time with the person you have a limited time with. So it's an interesting choice by Chris to like, to know.

[Natalie Joy]

And Leah's like, I have nothing else to do. Can you realize that?

[Sierra]

Right.

[Leia]

Like, we're supposed to be hanging out.

[Nick]

That's like the whole, that's the whole.

[Danny]

Wait, I have a question. Like, so then when they're in the apartments, are they allowed to leave the apartments?

[Nick]

No, I mean they.

[Danny]

Each other the whole time.

[Nick]

No, they can do, clearly they can do whatever they want. Chris did, you know, like we saw with Jorge and Vanel and we'll get some clarity at least Vanel's side of the story. When we interview Vanel about like what happened on the streets of Vancouver. But like that was a moment where they weren't being filmed. They were like, we're gonna go shopping.

[Natalie Joy]

Like a handler. What's it called?

[Danny]

Like a, like a producer with them or something.

[Nick]

Producers just kind of keep an eye on it because the show is in those moments responsible for them. But like the cast was allowed to hang out and spend time together even when they weren't being filmed. And they very much, you know, we wanted them to take advantage of, of that moment.

[Danny]

That's why I'm wondering if Leah, like, I guess maybe like they weren't going out as much or doing many things outside of what was filmed. Like she felt like there wasn't enough like quality time is what.

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Outside of just being in the apartment is what I was trying to figure out.

[Natalie Joy]

And it seems like from Chris's side, he's like, I'm just so tired. I just like need to sleep as much as possible.

[Nick]

Well, it is kind of giving when the camera's not around. Chris was gonna do his thing.

[Danny]

That's what I'm wondering. Yeah.

[Vanille]

So.

[Leia]

And I just think Leah's a very like, great. She's great tv. She's like a bright. Yeah, she's stunning. Great tv.

[Danny]

She's a flight attendant that I would be walking out of a fight.

[Leia]

Yeah. And she deserves to have someone that will spend time with her.

[Natalie Joy]

Well, there was some recent headlines based around Age of Attraction. Ashley, who was in our cast, she. Her story got cut. She is a 38 year old virgin. Oh, yeah. And she. The press is picking it up. The press is wondering why her story isn't covered, why she's, why she's cut out. Was she in a couple? She was also seeing Andrew.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, I mean that was a connection that was being explored.

[Leia]

Okay.

[Nick]

I, I just, I. And as someone who's rooting for this show's success, the fact that this is making headlines. Love that for us.

[Andrew]

Love that.

[Nick]

I love it when. So there's so much interest in a show that stories like turn into like Quote, unquote news. As if it was like something nefarious happened.

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Or anything like that. The truth is, you know, they are making a TV show and like, a lot of this conversation came up on last season of Love is Blind. A lot was made about them not being part of. Of Mexico when they filmed. And the excuse that we heard was budget. And when you're not involved in that production, that always kind of feels like really you couldn't. Like, you couldn't give him a hotel room. But like, there is a lot of truth in it. Like. Well, for us, Age of Attraction, this was a new season. So, like, we got eight episodes. Certainly as hosts, we hope it gets picked up. I hope there's a season two. If there's a season two, we hope there's more episodes. But it is a new season. And like, with these seasons, they don't know if it's going to work. They're. They're betting a lot of on. On. On an unproven concept. They don't know their cast, things like that. And it's not just sometimes about like giving an extra room for every couple that you film. There has to be camera crews, there has to be audio, there has to be producers that can handle that there. You know, you have to have a team in place. So more and more of these new reality TV shows have smaller crews, smaller budgets, things like that. So, like, budgets are a real thing. So as far as our lovely Ashley, who is, you know, what we learned when filming was a virgin. Obviously anyone is a virgin on a reality TV show. There's an interest there. But she didn't enter in a connection that, like, the show ended up following. You know, we were very lucky with this show to have as many connections made. I think there were 14 connections made, half of which that were like, same. Similar ages.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And a lot of. And then the other was like, age differences. But, like, the show is limited early on in terms of, like, they have sometimes have to make tough choices. There's nothing nefarious about it. There's nothing scandalous. It's just like, new season, limited budget, don't know how it's going to work, and they have a limited crew to handle this. And I, you know, I imagine after thinking about how it went down in Age of Attraction, the Vic and Christine, you know, also when we're. When you're filming this, you don't know who's gonna pop. You don't know how the audience is gonna respond. Like, you are thinking about it. You're making Guesses. But like when we were filming, it's just like Justin, who we are excited to have on the show that everyone seems to be falling for. We didn't get to watch that moment when he got teary eyed about like maybe not being a father. You know, that's like a one moment in a TV show when it, when you're filming it that lets, it's just kind of lost on you. There's so much going on, there's all these interviews and then when you watch it back back, something pops and really has a moment. It's when you're making it very hard to determine that's going to happen. So I think when fans are watching it, you're always like, why didn't they do this? Why didn't you do this? How did they not know this? It's like sometimes we're just as surprised as you guys how things kind of organically, you know, the audience responds to it. So I think it's this kind of little background there on how reality TV is.

[Danny]

I appreciated that you guys showed those small moments of the other couples that were on the show. Like I think that's something that we don't really acknowledge when we do watch shows that are lovely related and I feel like it was cool to be like, yeah, there's other people here and they were closer in age and some of them weren't.

[Nick]

And, and when we were making it there was a lot of conversations about do we follow one couple that's of similar age in a way that kind of gives validity to the couples that were in, in different ages?

[Leia]

Almost. Yeah, the control, it's like a control

[Nick]

couple in a way. I think there continues to be more discussion about if there is a season two, do we do that? But again, this is a, it's a new show, you know, hopefully we, we make some cool changes and add to what has been a really successful first season. But yeah, it's not, you know, we just kind of figure it out as we go, you know, and, and that's how it's, it's, it's almost never some kind of nefarious reason, you know. Well, speaking of one of these individuals that didn't get a ton of airtime, but when he did, he certainly left a meaningful mark. Justin is with us to talk about his experience on age, attraction and what is next for his love story.

[Natalie Joy]

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[Nick]

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[Natalie Joy]

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[Justin]

How are you guys?

[Natalie Joy]

We are so good. And Nick had to step out. He was like, I just can't see Justin's face. I get too emotional like thinking about how we didn't. So I just can't even participate. How are you doing? How is watching the show back been?

[Justin]

I'm doing really well, thank you for asking. It's nice to see you watching the show back. You know I had a lot of anxiety about it candidly because you know, it's just my first experience with like, anything kind of national TV wise. And I was worried that I had been like, I don't know, like, too vulnerable or too dead, I guess. I don't know. But yeah, once I saw everything, I, I, it was really kind of beautiful to watch everybody's stories being told and, and there was a lot that I didn't know, obviously, because I had gone home early.

[Natalie Joy]

So, I mean, you're a fan favorite. Everyone is like, raving about you, me

[Justin]

and my five minutes of fame.

[Vanille]

Sure.

[Natalie Joy]

I mean, everyone is like, no shade to Jorge, but they're like, vanille, what were you thinking? He's a catch.

[Vanille]

Yeah. Like, how has the fan reaction been and felt for you?

[Danny]

You?

[Justin]

It's been overwhelming in a positive way. Everybody has been super kind and like, I was going into this, like, prepared that everybody was going to be like, super mean and like, tell me everything that was wrong with me and like, how ugly I am. And it hasn't been that so far. Knock on wood. So it's been really great. Everybody's just reached out and has been super nice and it's, it's a lot to take in, but it's been a really pleasant and very sweet experience overall.

[Natalie Joy]

Well, what initially made you want to do the show?

[Justin]

Originally, I wanted to do the show. You know, it kind of came out of the blue, is the candid answer. I had broken up with my girlfriend like three months before and like, some of her parting advice was like, you know, you should go date somebody younger. And then Netflix reached out and I was like, I was.

[Andrew]

They knew.

[Natalie Joy]

It's so kismet.

[Leia]

It's perfect.

[Vanille]

Say, why did she say that? Why do you think that was her feedback back?

[Justin]

I mean, a lot of reasons. Obviously, I have a ton of shortcomings in relationships where I would not be the age that I am and be single, so. But, you know, she's relatively close to my age and has a child and I think, you know, just some differences in dynamics and, you know, some opportunities for me to grow and be a better person. And, and I, I learned a lot in that relationship and part of that was, you know, sound advice and that I needed to kind of like, work on myself and, and figure out how I can be a present and contributing partner. But we're still really great friends. I'm still really close with her son and a big part of their lives. So it was all for the best, for sure.

[Natalie Joy]

Well, you mentioned on the show, which I think is a part that really got a lot of people, was you talking about, like, not being married and not having kids by a certain age can be seen as a red flag. And you talk about not having kids yet, not being a father yet. Can you explain a little bit more about that?

[Justin]

Yeah, so. But when you get to be a certain age, you know, I think women have expectations that you're probably not just women. Honestly, my family as well, my mother has expectations that I will be married and have grandchild for her. And you know, I think it's, it's one of the most challenging kind of like periods in culture at large. Not just specific to a particular age group, but one of the most challenging periods for dating in general. You know, it's like everybody's in kind of these open situationships and like looking for the next best thing. And I think there's a lot of kind of like macro education around, like, what are kind of like the red flags and shortcomings of a particular demographic. And I think for men of my age, not being married and not having kids is definitely one of those, those kind of precursors of like, there might be something off with this guy. Not to say that I'm perfect, but yeah, it's just something I've always wanted and it just did not work out for me in that, that way or hasn't.

[Natalie Joy]

It is so true though that it's like a double edged sword. It's like you meet someone of a certain age and you're like, wait, why haven't you been married or have kids? Like, what's wrong with you? But then you're also like, wait, it's so nice. He's never been married, he doesn't have any kids. Like, we're both starting fresh. So it is interesting how like, different people can take it.

[Justin]

It's interesting just I don't know how everybody translates everything and like, everybody's on like, are we dating the same guy? And like, you know, it's just like this wild, it's the wild west out there in terms of dating as you know. Hey, congratulations. Can I take a break and say congratulations on your upcoming babies?

[Natalie Joy]

Twins. Crazy.

[Justin]

That's incredible. I will say I was so surprised at like what a positive overall experience it was, was like. The truth is, Natalie, like, I walked into the room with all the guys and I was like, I'm going to hate all of these guys because they're all going to hockey and they're all going to be like, you know, out for drama. And you saw, I mean, you saw, you talked to a ton of them. Like, everybody's been like, super emotionally intelligent, like, grounded Jorge. Like, I love, like, everybody. Like, we've all maintained this really close friendship after the fact, and. Yeah. So I was so pleasantly surprised.

[Leia]

You're kind of a heartthrob on the show. Have you been getting some crazy d. Dms? Like, what is that looking like right now?

[Justin]

I get a lot of. I. I get a lot of dms. Yes. I don't really know how to manage it, honestly, because I've never really. And I don't consider myself a heartthrob at all. Like, I'm definitely a dork, but that's

[Vanille]

part of the reason. Yeah, just stay doing that. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it.

[Justin]

Yeah, that shouldn't be a problem. That's been a long time, but. But, yeah, no, it's been. And, you know, there's, like, guilt associated with it because it's like, oh, look at all these nice messages. And it's like, I should go through and say something. And then it's like, well, what. I don't really know what I would say other than thank you. But, yeah, it has been. The response has been completely unexpected and wildly encouraging, I think.

[Vanille]

Was part of the date with you and Vanille, the massage date? Was she supposed to massage you next?

[Justin]

Yes, she did massage me next, but they cut that part out.

[Vanille]

Oh, she did. Okay. Because I was gonna say, I feel like, you know, she should have waited until after you got your massage to

[Sierra]

break up with you, because that didn't seem so fair.

[Justin]

Yes. So, I mean, about that, like, I was. I was. I was on a plane back from LA for work, and I had gotten a text message from the team, from the production team, and they're like, hey, like, are you. Are you ready? And I was like, oh, I think I'm, like, not in the show at all. I was like, you know, like, I didn't find love or whatever. And they're like, oh, no, you're in the show. And I was like. My first question was, did you cut the massage scene? And she was like. I was like, oh, my God. That's, like, the one thing that I didn't want, obviously, on television. But it was. Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

I mean, they had to show us. We all would have been like, what happened? Yeah, they had to show us.

[Justin]

At least they were honest about it. So I had, like, a couple of days to, like, prepare stuff, but I did not sleep.

[Vanille]

Did you finish her massage? Like, did after. After the breakup, like, did you finish giving her a massage? Or, like, what? Like, did she give you a massage? First or what happened like right after?

[Justin]

Yes, actually, I can't remember. She may have given me a massage first and then the scene where I was giving her a massage and then like the breakup happened. But yeah, I mean, it was, was, you know, I mean, she was such a kind hearted person and like, just so eloquent about like how she communicated about everything and, and well intentioned and you know, like I said on the show, just because I met you first doesn't mean that I have some sort of like, onus, you know, I don't. It doesn't mean that I'm just more deserving or anything like that. And, and I really liked Jorge and I, I think he's like such a character, charismatic, gregarious guy and I, I was sad to see that they didn't work. But it was also like this staunch reminder of like, some of the complexities that can come from like, big, big age gaps. Right.

[Natalie Joy]

So, I mean, did you realize, like watching it back, how swaggy you are with like the kiss scene?

[Justin]

No. All I did it, I looked and like,

[Natalie Joy]

Justin no was like, oh my. He was like, you're giving me.

[Libby]

It was hot.

[Leia]

You have a smolder, man. Yeah, you kind of got a smolder.

[Justin]

You.

[Natalie Joy]

I mean, you're a fan favorite.

[Justin]

Okay, well, that's that.

[Leia]

My mom's loving you on the show, by the way.

[Justin]

She wanted me to say, I don't really know. I'm kind of in this like, social vacuum because all I do is work. But. But I do get like my brother text me is like, somebody asked about me and somebody like recognized me on a plane today, which was weird.

[Natalie Joy]

Oh my gosh.

[Vanille]

Very cool. What are you looking for in your next relationship? Should it be season two of Age of Attraction or out in the wild?

[Justin]

That's a great question. You know, I think what I've always looked for is like, obviously chemistry I think is really important. Like, there has to be like a baseline of attraction in a relationship and then, you know, as you get older and this is such a platitude, like, but I think like, compatibility really matters. Like, does your lifestyle match kind of the person that you are investing in? As I've gotten older, I think resilience, because I think that's a lot of what is lacking in relationships is like the ability to kind of like work through something and figure out like how to work a problem or a disagreement or a misalignment, alignment and, and somebody that will kind of show up and actually do work as opposed to Retreat. I, I really value that in a partner, and it's something that I've tried to kind of develop a skill set that I've tried to develop as I've gotten, you know, older. So, yeah, I think chemistry, kindness, compatibility, and resilience. If I had to put kind of the bullet point lists there.

[Natalie Joy]

Do you feel like you felt an age difference between you and Vanill?

[Justin]

I did. I could feel an age difference, but not like a prohibitive one. I like, she, I think she's actually really intelligent and really has a high eq, and I think that translated in the show. So I wasn't overly worried about our age gap.

[Natalie Joy]

Were you shocked to find out she was 27?

[Justin]

She was younger than I thought that she was. Yeah, yeah, I thought she was in her 30s.

[Vanille]

Was there anyone else on the show that you clicked with?

[Justin]

Yeah, you know, that was. The thing is, like, there were just so many beautiful and amazing and interesting and different people on there. It's like, the amount of time that we were there, you wish that you had kind of six months of it. You know, it's like, let's just all live and work here together and really kind of really get to know each other. It's such an interesting social experiment. But, yeah, Catherine and I definitely, like, had our moment, and she's. I still, I talked to her this morning and I, I mean, yeah, we, we all talk, really, on a regular basis, so definitely some of my closest friends, but I'm not seeing anybody today.

[Natalie Joy]

Y' all had the Notebook date, right? Like, yeah, y' all were out in

[Justin]

the canoe and it, like, which was so beautiful. I mean, it was like, you know, it was on the water and, like, there was, like, a rainbow. I was shocked that that was not part of the series.

[Natalie Joy]

What's life like right now?

[Justin]

You know, I came out of the show and I was so just overwhelmed with work. I, I work in healthcare and senior living, so we do, like, care and enablement for people with dementia and Alzheimer's, but it's a very, like, demanding job. So I, I, I've really just been focusing exclusively on that with, and trying to exercise a little bit, too, because I, you could just, like, lose yourself in work sometimes. So trying to find work life balance. But, but, yeah, that's 90% of it. It's very boring answer.

[Natalie Joy]

I'm sorry, where are you based out of? I forget.

[Justin]

I live in Charleston, South Carolina. Please visit.

[Natalie Joy]

Charleston. Yes, yes, yes. Well, Justin, we, we obviously love you. We. Nick and I have been telling everyone, like, we're very protective over this cast. Not that anyone has even muttered a bad word about you, but I think we'll always, like, have this first season kind of thing that we all did together, none of us knowing really what it was, but we divulged and did it together and it turned out pretty amazing. So we are big fans of you. We really hope that you find love and you get married and you have babies.

[Justin]

I would love all of those things to happen. And I do want to say, like, thank you so much for, like, you guys were so kind. You went out of your way and I think we all kind of got in trouble for it. But, like, you went out of your way to come over and like, say hi to everybody and talk to everybody and like, the concept for the show was, like, amazing. And it was like that honestly was what pulled me into the whole thing. The idea that it wasn't going to be this, like, hyper fictionalized drama and like it was this real kind of social experiment that we were just going to see kind of what happened and we were. We're all kind of figuring it out together. But ultimately, like, you and Nick were just so kind to me and to everybody and I know. Know that everybody is so grateful for that. So thank you so much and thank you for having me on today. It's. It's really good to see you guys.

[Natalie Joy]

Well, we couldn't have continued any of these interviews without having you on, so we are grateful that you fit us into your busy schedule.

[Justin]

You're generous. Please tell Nick that I said hi and I'm sad that he wasn't here.

[Natalie Joy]

I know. I will, I will. If you're ever in la, please let us know.

[Justin]

We'll do. I would love that.

[Natalie Joy]

Thanks, Justin.

[Justin]

Okay, Great to see you guys. Thank you.

[Natalie Joy]

Okay, thank you, Justin.

[Andrew]

Thank you.

[Leia]

Bye.

[Nick]

What a sweetheart.

[Leia]

Hi. Oh, my God.

[Nick]

Thanks for handling that, babe.

[Natalie Joy]

You know what? I will do anything for you and especially talking to Justin.

[Nick]

I had to go do a.

[Natalie Joy]

Well, I love that man and I do love him. And I said that literally the first day we met him on set. I was like, I love him. He is so kind. He's so sweet. He's just like a gentle baby girl.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

You know?

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

Protect Justin at all costs.

[Vanille]

Sweet boy, Justin.

[Leia]

Sweet Justin.

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah, Justin.

[Nick]

Sweet man, Justin. He's a daddy. Well, he's not a daddy.

[Vanille]

He wants to be.

[Leia]

Yeah, I'm rooting for him.

[Nick]

Take that however you want. What did we all think of the Jorge and Vanel drama? Well, there's two different Moments. Obviously, there's the celibacy conversation, then there's the walk on the streets of Vancouver.

[Vanille]

In terms of the celibacy conversation, I relate to Vanille more just because. Because, like, I do come from a religious background, Orthodox Judaism. And Danny and I have different ways of, of practicing. Practicing?

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vanille]

Like, I'm a lot more observant than he is and like, I can be very wishy washy with, like, what I decide to observe and what I decide to do. And to Danny, it makes no sense, but to me, in my own brain, it does. And it's very hard to explain yourself because it's just like, how you feel, right?

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah. And I come from, from obviously a similar religious background where, you know, like, you grow up and every time, you know, you make out, like, you just. They're like that shame of like, oh, my God, I'm in trouble. The God's gonna really be mad at me.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Is like, yeah, it's a, it's a challenge. But I imagine, though, when you like the words you use, that's why it's even more important when you communicate your expectations that you use language that isn't confusing. No.

[Vanille]

Well, 100. But I just think that it, that like, circumstances change, things change and like, your opinions can change. Right. So it's like while I, you know, wanted, you know, for observing the Sabbath, for example, like, I used to observe it fully. And then like, as time goes on, like, there are little things that I'm like, okay, I'm gonna start doing that now. Like, I. And I don't observe fully, but, like, there are still certain things that, like, I don't want to do, like going on an airplane, for example. And to Danny, that makes no sense because it's like, wait, but you're going to get in a car, but you won't get on a plane? Like, that doesn't make any sense. Right. And it's like, I don't know how to explain why I feel nervous to get on a plane on the Sabbath. But, like, I am comfortable driving a car. I just can't explain it. But it makes no sense.

[Nick]

No, I hear you. Are you at least willing, when Danny is confused to have those conversations or are you always like, like, listen, it

[Vanille]

frustrates me, I will admit. Like, it makes me feel very frustrated. And I think part of it is because I'm so confused and I don't know how to explain myself. But I'm saying, like, I really relate to Vanille because I think that, like, she has a Hard line that like, she understands in her brain. And it's hard for her to communicate that to Jorge and he is. It does feel at times talking at her rather than with her. And it's hard when somebody's like, like asking you, like, to explain yourself and you don't know how to explain yourself because it's just something that you feel. And like, while it may not make sense the way, the way that you explain it, it just, it's so important to you. And it's like, I can't explain to you why or how or what is going through my brain, but it just is. And this is how I feel and just accept it. Like, I don't want to talk about it anymore. And I say that today.

[Natalie Joy]

Are you listening?

[Vanille]

By the way, though I do say that to Danny. I'm like, I don't want to talk about this anymore because you're not here. Like, you're not going to understand where I'm coming from.

[Leia]

And that's just that it makes sense to me. I don't know, whatever. What else to say.

[Vanille]

It make sense to you because I acknowledge that it's confusing, but this is what I want to do and this is my.

[Nick]

You are doing that thing. You at least are acknowledging that it's confusing to you and that it doesn't make sense. And you, you want Danny to accept that, which makes sense. But. And again, I'm only. We're only responding to what we watch in the show. But it, it seems like Vanel is like, in the Promise Room was like, yo, I'm celibate. She didn't really elaborate. She's just like, I'm celibate. Jorge was like, you know, celibacy feels like a religious. Almost like a, like has religious context. That word. It's not like, hey, I listen, I'm. I, I abstain from sex or I don't have like, it's, it has like that connotation and then they get together, lights go off, things happen. The oral, oral intimacy, as. As Vano pointed out. And then Jorge seems to want to have a conversation about, like, well, I'm. I'm confused.

[Justin]

And.

[Nick]

But she doesn't want to. She's just like, but what are you confused about? I'm celibate. You know, and she seems to be unwilling to, like, she just wants Jorge to be okay with that kind of like, you are. But he's also just like, wants some. Well, wait, what? But like, I thought that meant one thing. You clearly think it means something else. And I just Want to get on the same page. And then what the tricky part about their relationship is she really wanted when she said that for Jorge to like in the promise room to accept her choices and be done with that. And it seemed like he was more like, hey, this whole thing, this us is we're unsure about yet, you know, like I'm still, you know, this whole experiment isn't over. Like we, we met in, in this large group of, of people, other people. Now we're getting to the second phase, which is to live together. Then we maybe might meet some loved ones. Then we'll come to a decision. And he's not done making his decision on.

[Vanille]

He wasn't clear about that in the promise room though. It seemed like he accepted what she was saying about celibacy. She gave him a little more, which I think he should just be like grateful for and then move and then. You know what I mean? Like Jorge, it's like you're getting more

[Sierra]

than you enchilada where I'm like, you're still getting more than you thought you would.

[Nick]

How is that different than Logan and Vanessa having a similar conversation about intimacy and what their comfort levels were were. And why can that be an ongoing conversation?

[Leia]

Well, I think with, with Jorge and Vanel, you have Vanille using the phrase and the boundary of celibacy, which is different than Logan and Vanessa kind of just figuring out what intimacy means to them without those.

[Vanille]

Like, I think when it comes to religion it's a more firm boundary where it's like, this is my belief, this is my relationship with God and I'm not going to cross that line. And, and like to me I have my own, like I have my own deal with God.

[Danny]

Right.

[Vanille]

And I feel that way too. Like in general I, like I have a deal with God and it's very complex and it only lives in my own head. And I cannot explain it.

[Leia]

Well, I, I'm, I kind of lean more towards vanilla's side. And obviously I am a 25 year old. Like my dad's a Lutheran pastor. It's a very different, like I'm a 25 year old like queer woman whose dad is a pastor. So like me and Horace, hey, obviously you have a different experience of being PKs as he is a 60 year old like man. But I think there is a way that you are raised with the awareness that like you are living your life in service to other people a lot of the time, at least that's my experience. And like you have, you are raised with the intention of Being like, all right, you have these gifts. You have your, like, life and personality. And, like, you owe it to be a good person and to, like, be of service of God and, like, share that with others. Right. Like, that's kind of like the PK thing. And, like, you're expected to help and assist. And so I wonder how that affects Jorge's, like, mindset especially. He's a defense attorney as well. And, like, I don't know, the way he handles the vanilla situation, I just am, like, he sounds more like a lawyer than a PK in that situation. And I'm like, I wish he had a bit more grace for her. Even though her boundaries.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Are confusing, she's also, like, figuring them out.

[Nick]

Like Leia was saying, religion, intimacy, are all parts. Like, these are important conversations early couples need to have.

[Vanille]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And, like, it's fine that you have this experience that it's hard to explain. Yeah, it's hard to explain, but that's part of meeting someone and having these conversations. And, like, it's just very difficult when someone's like, this is how it is. And then they kind of move a little bit differently than what they communicated, but then they still don't want to have the conversation to try to, like, get on the same page. That can be very challenging for any couple. I think it's okay to have that conversation there.

[Justin]

I've.

[Vanille]

I've just been. I've been in Vanille's shoes before where I've just been, like, I'm walking away from this conversation. We're not continuing to have it. I'm firm in where I'm coming from, and that's that it just kind of

[Sierra]

felt like a weird, like, conflict where it's just kind of like, again, yes, she might have done more saying that she was celibate or saying, like. But she didn't clarify. Or, like, they don't think they had any kind of conversation as to, like, what would happen in a bedroom. But she made it very clear that, like, that's her line and she's not going to cross it. So that's where I'm like, if you're still getting intimacy and, like, whatnot, I don't understand why we need to argue about how much you get or because this one thing is off the table, that this needs to be a conversation that we both need to understand when it's going to happen. She said when she's married is when she's going to give that up. So it's like, I just feel like that's Very clear.

[Vanille]

Yeah, I do think it is very clear. Like to her it's like oral sex is fine, but sex, sex is not. And that's, that's where she, what she explained. And I don't know why Jorge is still pushing. Like, I don't know what he's confused about.

[Leia]

I think it's less that Jorge. Like, I don't think he was doing anything bad. I think he just has this. Yeah, he just has a natural tone of like he is a very, like he's going to talk and he's a defense attorney. Like he has this tone of like authority when he speaks. It's just like in his communication style

[Sierra]

of questioning to where I feel like it made her feel like she was

[Leia]

where he didn't mean it to be. Like he wasn't trying to, you know, do anything like that. But I think it's like when you're a man talking to a woman, like, I think sometimes, especially in an intimate setting like that, like people get a little bit more like tender.

[Nick]

It is an interesting dynamic and we do have Libby and Vanille with us both to talk about their experiences. And we do get into this discussion and they are up next. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. We're taking a moment to celebrate women in all they care about, carry at work, in relationships, in families, and in the many roles they hold every day. And I'm thinking about the women in my life who somehow do it all and still show up with strength, warmth and resilience. They deserve to be supported the way they support everyone else. Sometimes you just need to get it off your chest. And BetterHelp is helping people do that like never before. If you have not reached out to a therapist, then you are probably not taking care of your mental health the way you could be. And better help is helping people jump into therapy like never before. It's incredibly convenient. Also the best part is they allow you to switch therapists every time until you feel like you connect with someone who really gets you. And since they're working with over 30,000 mental health professionals, it's very easy to find a therapist that's right for you. And that is such a game changer when it comes to therapy. So if you're one of the amazing moms or women out there that have a lot on their plate, or the dads who just need to talk it out and get it off their chest, think about better help. If you haven't had had a chance to protect your mental health, your emotional well being matters. Find support and feeling lighter in therapy? Sign up and get 10 off at betterhelp.com v I a l l that's better help. H e l p.com v I a

[Natalie Joy]

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[Nick]

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[Andrew]

Hi, how are you?

[Danny]

You.

[Libby]

Thanks for having us.

[Nick]

We're so excited to have you here.

[Natalie Joy]

Now it's wild. We've done it.

[Nick]

What's it like to be a Netflix reality TV star?

[Libby]

Stop it.

[Andrew]

We're not stars. Or at least I don't know. I don't see myself as just an ordinary.

[Nick]

Well, you ladies are recording this before it comes out. So, like, you don't. You haven't felt.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Libby]

So I will say it's really surreal for me to even be on the vial files because I grew up watching the Bachelor and my mom and I watched your season and then I remember in San Diego taking off to go to Canada, scrolling past something of your guys's on my feed and being like, what if the show is ever relevant enough to make it on the vile files? Probably not either. Walk in. You're the host. I was expecting Vanessa and Nick Lachey or somebody who I was like, oh,

[Andrew]

yeah, I would have never guessed.

[Libby]

I see you guys.

[Andrew]

Everyone thought it was like Vanessa and Nick.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

Well, we are happy you've been your host.

[Nick]

And we love them, obviously, but we

[Andrew]

love you guys too. Yes, yes. More.

[Natalie Joy]

But now we are family.

[Nick]

Yes. We're all from the same family.

[Libby]

We love you.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Libby]

I'll be like, I know them.

[Nick]

Obviously this show centers around age differences and we now know both you ladies are in your 20s, right?

[Andrew]

Yes, something like that.

[Danny]

Something like that.

[Nick]

Now that now. Now that your ages have been revealed.

[Natalie Joy]

Probably since then.

[Libby]

Actually, we're 23 and 28 now, so we're older young girls.

[Nick]

Are you giving the and a half?

[Libby]

And a half? Oh, my gosh. You know, I just had my half birthday of my 23rd.

[Natalie Joy]

She just celebrated her half birthday.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Leia]

What do you.

[Libby]

What do you gu. Know about young girls anymore? 23.

[Andrew]

I just turned 28 last month.

[Nick]

Happy birthday. So when you guys. I'm curious for when. When you guys showed up to do this show, what were your expectations and why did you guys decide to say yes to it?

[Andrew]

Yeah, I mean, I'll speak for me. Like, I generally was coming on here to find my husband, like, literally, like there was nothing else on my mind to literally other than like finding my husband. Like, that was literally, literally it.

[Libby]

That's a beautiful approach from you vanilla. I don't know if I can say the same. I was like, if I could find my husband and ride off into the sunset, that would be great. Would that probably ever happen for me? No, but let's try. Let's try and find out. I don't think I was expecting as big of an age gap dynamic as what it was. I think it was just kind of like, oh, you know, there's gonna be everybody of all ages. And I'm not somebody who's ever sought out an older guy on my own, but I was like, if this is the way that this is going to go for me, then cool.

[Nick]

Like there might be a 30 year old there.

[Libby]

Yeah, I was, I was going to. I was thinking that I was just going to end up with whoever was my age anyway. I didn't know that this would be the whole topic of the show, but here we are.

[Andrew]

Really.

[Libby]

I don't think I was expecting it to be as prevalent as it was as far as the age gaps.

[Natalie Joy]

And you clicked with Andrew right off the bat. I mean, did you have any other guys that you were looking for at?

[Libby]

Not really, honestly. I think I saw the group walk in and one or two caught my eye. But the second that I started talking to everyone, there were some great friendships connect. Friendship connections. As soon as I really got to know everybody on a personal level, I think all the guys are amazing. But as far as dating, I don't think I was really ever super interested in anybody but Andrew.

[Nick]

So Vanille, you were a little different. You had a couple love interests, Jorge, that we got to watch that unfold. But also. So Justin.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Who?

[Natalie Joy]

Shout out Justin. You know, sweetheart.

[Nick]

A bit of a fan fave out there really.

[Sierra]

Is he off face?

[Natalie Joy]

I. I have a soft spot for Justin. I think he's so sweet.

[Nick]

What was the ultimate reason that you leaned towards Jorge over Justin?

[Andrew]

Honestly, like, Justin was very similar to the type of guys I've dated in the past. Like, very, like. I'm also very like reserved and a little bit quiet. Justin was a similar to me, but he was also just very sweet. Such a gentleman. And Jorge was a little different from most guys I've dated before. He was very outgoing. It brought a little bit of excitement out of me and he brought out like a goofy side of me. So I was just very intrigued by Jorge. I think that's what it was ultimately. And then I started to just really enjoy getting to know him. So.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Nick]

How old did you think he was before he reviewed?

[Andrew]

I literally thought he was like, 45, 50 max. Like, there's no way in my mind I was like, this guy is 6 years old. There's no way.

[Natalie Joy]

You know what's funny, Vanel?

[Andrew]

No way.

[Natalie Joy]

So when y' all had your commitment ceremony, you were on set, and they were like, natalie, you might need to go in and, like, talk to Vanille, because she might be so shocked that she, like, needs to talk to somebody.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Natalie Joy]

Because she is, like, not going to be expecting this at all. She has told us so many times, like, she will stay in the 40s. She does not want to date anyone outside of 40s.

[Andrew]

No, literally, I was like. I could not believe it. But, like, also at that point, like, my mind was just so set on, like, him and my connection with him and how I felt about him to where it's like, at that point, like, the age thing just, like, didn't even matter to me. I was like, this guy could have been, like, 80 years old, and I would've been like, yeah, let's.

[Natalie Joy]

Let's.

[Andrew]

Let's continue.

[Leia]

Let's get married.

[Nick]

At that point, at that stage in the process, you were too deep. You were. I mean, I believe you were like, you were telling people you had found your guy and thanking some people for introducing you to the love of your

[Natalie Joy]

life, your husband, I think, is what you said.

[Andrew]

I definitely, definitely was like, yeah, this is definitely my husband. I don't know if everyone was able to see, but I definitely was starting to really fall for him. Like, I do remember hardcore.

[Libby]

So smitten about him.

[Andrew]

Like, hardcore. Yeah. I definitely was like, this is my husband.

[Libby]

I was like, vannel is in love. You had his ring on. She was saying, my man, my man, my man. I was like, they are solid. She's got her man.

[Natalie Joy]

Let's go in the promise room. Y' all talked about a lot.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

You asked him a question about children. You told him that you were celibate.

[Danny]

Mm.

[Natalie Joy]

Are celibate.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

He did not answer your kid's question.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Nick]

How do you remember that going?

[Andrew]

Yeah. So I remember. I remember I told him about my abstinence. We talked about the kid, and then he immediate was like, oh, like, I know you want kids. But, like, didn't, like, ask. I know you want kids. I'd be something about being open to having kids, but never, like, mentioned, oh, I already have kids. Right. So in my mind, I'm like, okay, this guy doesn't have any kids. Probably maybe wants kids, which I'm open to having kids, too. Right. It's not something that I'm like, I must have kids. But yeah, he just never mentioned that he already has kids. So it was just, it was. Yeah. Very interesting.

[Nick]

Yeah. How, how I remember it is that believe. You know, obviously you guys were, you were very nervous. It's a very nerve wracking moment. You asked two questions back to back and you were like, do you want kids?

[Natalie Joy]

Do you have.

[Nick]

It was like, I don't even know if you have kids or even if you want kids. That's how you asked it. And then I don't know if he's a savvy. He has a da. But he answered your second question was he talked about the possibility and the willingness to maybe have kids with you. Completely leaving out the. I don't even know if you have kids or even if you want kids.

[Danny]

Kids.

[Andrew]

But you know what he told me like obviously after like, you know, the Promise Room, we had conversations about it and then ultimately he finally told me about his kids. But he had told me that he didn't want to tell me during the Promise Room because he said it wasn't like the right time. Like it, like it wasn't the right time to tell me. I don't know. I don't know what the right time would have been, but.

[Nick]

Well, you weren't processing him being 60, so that was a lot.

[Andrew]

That would have been the right time. But I guess for him it wasn't the right time. And it's, you know, I don't know.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Natalie Joy]

And Livy, you found out how soon that Andrew has two kids.

[Libby]

He told you that? I think I heard whispers of it. And he, he definitely leads with that. I don't think it's any sort of secret to him. Cause he wants to make it known that he's a father. I just wasn't aware of the ages, which then kind of made sense of his age.

[Andrew]

So wait, how old are they? They again?

[Libby]

They're 12 and 14.

[Andrew]

Oh, okay.

[Libby]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Pretty grown up.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah. I think I asked you what was more shocking, finding out that you were closer to his 14 year old or the fact that he was closer to 40.

[Nick]

What did you think about that? Because you know, obviously there's a, you know, when it's compared to your age, it's easy to get in your head. But I, I guess, you know, having daughters that are of the age that they are, I guess might be, you know, I suppose if he like was fresh out of a relationship with like say a 2 and a 4 year old where that clearly would have demanded.

[Libby]

Yes, a Lot of.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, not that his kids don't demand a lot of his time, but I think a 2 and a 4 year old is different dynamic. Much different dynamic. I imagine that was probably. Or how did you feel about that?

[Libby]

As I really start to. Started to think about it more, I realized that that does entail a whole lot less of craziness having two daughters because they're not little toddlers running around. You don't have to go pack them their lunches or something. So I would just say the initial. Even finding out that he was a dad kind of shocked me. And usually if I'm out in the wild and I meet a man and he tells me he's a father, my brain says, okay, no, like, that's not what we're doing. That doesn't really make sense for me at this time. So I think just compartmentalizing that first and then finding out their ages and how close I am was the whole shocking part. But once I really thought about it, I did realize, like, like, okay, if the girls are 12 and 14, that's fun. That's awesome. Like, I think that that's cool that you're a girl dad, you know? So once I really thought about it, it wasn't as scary as I thought. But the fact of the. The age dynamic between me and the kids and that it's a pretty small gap.

[Natalie Joy]

That's the part where I was like, oh, oh, oh.

[Libby]

And then how old are you? And then how old were you when you had them? And how old are you? That's what scared me.

[Nick]

Okay. All right.

[Natalie Joy]

Can you name a Spice Girl now or.

[Libby]

I can name a couple Spice Girls. Yeah. So I never said I didn't know who they were. I said I couldn't name one. I know about Posh, now I know about Sporty.

[Andrew]

Did you go Google it?

[Libby]

No. You didn't Google it?

[Danny]

No.

[Libby]

Okay. And I love the song Wannabe. No, no. Hate to the Spice Girls. I definitely know who you are.

[Leia]

I just.

[Libby]

I don't know the names. I don't think that was my time, was it?

[Natalie Joy]

No, it was not.

[Libby]

I don't know.

[Natalie Joy]

Baby Spice.

[Nick]

Vanel, a big discussion point on this season is, well, you and Jorge had a couple of disagreements, and one of them was very much centered around the bedroom.

[Leia]

And why do you say it like that?

[Nick]

The bedroom. The bedroom.

[Andrew]

What do you have to say? Say it with your chest.

[Nick]

Celibate.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Nick]

And I guess the definition of celibacy or what it means, and you know, it was very interesting to hear you guys talk about this when you first told Jorge about the fact that you are celibate, what conversations did you have around that? And did you guys. And did you get into any details around, you know, what your boundaries were or what they weren't as it relates to celibate? Celibacy.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So when I first told him was during the Promised Room, and I kind of just, like, wanted to, like, let him know, like, get it off my chest. And, well, he really comforted me and was like, oh, like, this is what you've been, like, you know, having weighing on you. Why didn't you tell me sooner? Like, it's totally fine. Like, I have no issue with this. That's what I gathered from that conversation. But, no, we never had any, like, I guess, conversations about, like, boundaries around it. I guess in my mind, I just. I thought it's just a known thing. Like, when you say you're celibate, you just. You just know what it is. I'll say this. Like, obviously, Jorge and I were very. We're very attracted to each other. We had. We're very, like, romantic and stuff, but my. My celibacy boundaries were not. Were not broken.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Natalie Joy]

Yes, that is clear. Okay, that is clear. Did you never have a conversation of, like, this is what this means to me. This is what I would like our relationship to look like, or was he. Were y' all just kind of like, yeah, yeah, we.

[Andrew]

We never had that conversation. We never. We never got to a point to have that conversation. Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

Do you think if y' all would have had that conversation, those disagreements, like, wouldn't have happened? Or do you think it was bound to happen just because of his personality?

[Andrew]

I feel like it was bound to happen because his personality, like, him and I are just very, very different. And I feel like his mindset. I feel like it was bound to happen. Let's just say that. Um, but it definitely would have been helpful to have those conversations, to have that conversation prior.

[Natalie Joy]

Y' all also had, I. I guess, the big reason why y' all broke up. Actually, you tell me, why did y' all break up?

[Andrew]

Um, I think ultimately, like, we're just not compatible. Like, ultimately, I think age did play a factor in our relationship. And, you know, Jorge is someone that's had a lot of experiences and had made it known that he's experienced this, and, you know, he might know better about this. And, yeah, ultimately, it. Age did play a factor in our relationship.

[Nick]

And, yeah, so you almost felt like what he saw as, like, a lived experience. You maybe Felt like a little condescension.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. Kind of just. Yeah, Yeah, I would say that. And it's. I don't know. I felt like once he was very, like, stuck in his way. Like, because he's just had these experiences, he feels he knows best. So it's. It was. It's hard to. I don't know, it's hard to. To. To be in it.

[Nick]

Can you walk? So there was this moment where you guys get in a fight about, you guys seemingly to be out when they were filming, living together in the streets of Vancouver. And an incident happened where a third party seems like some other person, a guy apparently approached the two of you. And it sound. You know, this is all. You guys were just describing what happened. And so just to refresh your memory, Jorge, you know, got into it with this guy. And apparently that made you feel uncomfortable. And then you guys got into this big debate. You basically were saying, hey, that. That made me uncomfortable. Uncomfortable. And Jorge's response was, don't tell me

[Andrew]

how to be a man.

[Nick]

Sure. Yeah. I mean, he was basically like, this is what I'm gonna do in these situations. And I would love for you, my partner, to. To back me up, because I'm not, you know, I'm. I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to do in this situation. And you guys. You couldn't. Yeah. You guys both seem to, like, have a hard time.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Maybe hearing each other.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And I think in that moment, like, when we were having that conversation, I think in that moment, we just weren't trying to understand each other, put each other, or put one another in each other's shoes. So that's kind of where, like, the Clash was. But also with that. With what happened with that. Yeah. We were walking back from getting ice cream. There's just some random guy. I thought he was just homeless, random guy on drugs or something. Said something to Jorge and I. And, you know, Jorge turns around, is going back and forth, this person. And then this person keeps, like, walking. He has a skateboard. He's walking behind us, still going back and forth. And then it gets to a point where now Jorge is talking about, like, fighting this person. And they're both, like, going at it and about to, like, literally, like, physically fight. And it just made me uncomfortable because that was the first time that I saw a different side to Jorge that I have never seen before. Right. And, you know, I'm not used to most men I date. Like, I said, I'm not used to guys I date wanting to get in a fight. Like, I don't know. In my mind, I'm like, you're very grown. You're grown. Like, there's, you know, like, in the way I was trying to explain to him is, like, there was a way that, you know, you could have diffused the situation. Right. Because, you know, the guy could have had a gun or could have had a knife, could have came out and stabbed us or whatever it is. Larry. It could have been diffused. He could have ignored him and just, like, kept walking. Like, there's just so many, like, different routes he could have taken. And I said that to him, and I think it triggered Jorge because it made it. It came off as if I was trying to tell him, like, how to, like, behave or, like, what to do as a man. Right. And in that moment, I think he was also just trying to protect me in the best way that he knew how to in that moment.

[Nick]

But you being in part of that situation, you felt like there were moves he could have made to.

[Andrew]

Yeah. That could have avoided that whole situation.

[Nick]

It didn't really get to that place. That it did. And you feel like Jorge played a role and in. In. In that.

[Andrew]

Exactly, Exactly. Had he just ignored it and we kept walking, it would have. It would have just not been anything, honestly, like. Yeah, like I said, that was a random guy. He didn't know us. Right. So it wasn't.

[Natalie Joy]

And y' all weren't like. Y' all didn't have cameras on you like, y' all were.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, we were just literally, like, walking. Like, it wasn't. It literally had nothing to do with us, so. Yeah, but, yeah, like I said that I saw a different side to him at that point, and it just. It made me. The whole situation.

[Nick]

So it's not like, out of nowhere, some guy came up to you guys in a. And. And things immediately got aggressive where Jorge was required to step in, because that's. Honestly, watching it back, it was kind of unclear.

[Andrew]

No, it was. We were walking. It was a big distance. It was like me and, like, the guy was, like, that far out. And the guy, like, yelled and, like, was like, yo, you talking shit. Blah, blah. And then, like, was yelling. But, like, obviously, Jorge and I were.

[Vanille]

It was.

[Andrew]

It wasn't like, this close. Like, it was far out.

[Nick]

And he had to yell back for the guy to hear him.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And then he yelled back, like, mind your effing business or whatever. And then at that point, now we're walking. The guy's walking closer, like, you know. Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay, interesting.

[Natalie Joy]

I definitely, yeah, that, that clears things up because it was for sure kind of like did someone like come up and try to hurt you and then he was like stopping it? But then. Yeah, it's like we've, all of us have been in a situation where we're walking and someone says something so you know, you just had keep walking.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Like, am I, am I crazy for like thinking like, no. Like why did it need to go there? Like that could have been.

[Natalie Joy]

So I can't imagine like if they did start fighting, like you, what are you like you're just standing, like what? Like it would just have gone too far.

[Andrew]

So like, I understand if the person like literally like came up and was like literally trying to attack me. Like, yeah, go fight that person. But like, you know what I mean?

[Natalie Joy]

Mean, right? No, no, no, no.

[Nick]

It makes sense. But that was context we didn't have.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Nick]

And it was unclear. We knew something happened. But I think that was the big question is like because you, what you communicate at the time was it just made you feel uncomfortable. And again, obviously these, we don't get to see everything that is said between the two of you guys. But we didn't, we were missing the deep like the kind of the play by play. Like what actually happened? Was this a situation that got escalated? I think that was a big question. Did Jorge play a role in escalating the situation to the point or, or what did Jorge get caught up in something and all he did was try to protect his woman? Yeah. And de escalate a situation. So thank you for clearing that up. Clearing that up.

[Natalie Joy]

Libby, how shocked were you to hear that Jorge was 60?

[Libby]

I didn't know.

[Andrew]

Same as Andrew.

[Libby]

I didn't know there were six year olds there. Oh, and he.

[Andrew]

What?

[Libby]

I guess that don't think so.

[Vanille]

Yeah, no.

[Andrew]

What would you have guessed?

[Libby]

Maybe like 45 to 50? I don't think I was thinking 60.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Same as me.

[Libby]

And when I heard, when I saw you guys come in and I heard there was what, a 33 year old age gap, I was like, wait, what?

[Andrew]

What?

[Libby]

Because you guys look really normal together. I wouldn't be like, oh, this is a super big age gap couple. So I, I would say I was shocked really just to hear how big the gap between, between you guys were.

[Nick]

What was for you as you started dating Andrew on the show? What were some of the biggest challenges that you felt in your relationship? Whether age had something to do with it or just getting to know each other.

[Libby]

The main thing was really just me trying to Process his age and the fact that he had kids and his life. And I think that it takes a really secure person to be open to really, like, weaving yourself in somebody's already existing life and thinking, how can I step into this? How can I be a part of this? How can this feel normal? So I would just say me trying to process everything that a life with him would entail.

[Nick]

I feel like, you know, it'll be interesting when the show comes out, like what some of the discourse and some of the commentary is. But as we all know, when it comes to, I guess, pop culture, it seems like a lot of the criticisms are often are centered, you know, towards the women. Right. So, like, you know, if you're Teresa or.

[Andrew]

And I hate that.

[Nick]

Vanessa.

[Libby]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, it's like it's not normalized to see an older woman dating a younger man. If. If we see a younger woman dating an older man, you know, I think that's all you. All, you know, like, oh, you don't know better.

[Andrew]

Or like, she's been taken advantage of.

[Nick]

She's been taking it.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So I'm just curious from your lady's perspective, who, you know are. You're both in your 20s and on this show you both date men decently older than you. What would, what would you say to the people who have some of these kind of low hanging fruit criticisms as it relates to age differences?

[Libby]

Yeah, I love that question. I feel like that's a really good topic to touch on because I don't think it's one size fits all when it comes to age gap relationships. While we were filming, I thought that the dynamic, the dynamic between Andre and I was a very equal relationship. And it wasn't like, here he is this older guy and I'm this younger girl following him around, and he's just sees me as one thing. I think intellectually we really met each other in the same space. And that was something that I really found refreshing about him, was his emotional intelligence and that I thought that I could have a conversation about my life, my goals, my relationships, whatever it may be, and he could meet me there.

[Danny]

And.

[Libby]

And I found I. I kind of felt like that wasn't something that I experienced with younger guys or guys my age. So I found it really refreshing that I felt like we both had stuff to benefit from each other and we elevate each other in different ways and we can, we could learn different things from each other. He had life questions asked me. I had ones for him. It wasn't, it wasn't I think the typical dynamic that you might make a stereotype about or assume with an older man and a younger girl. And I felt like when we were filming, as I got to know him better and better, I was like, I have way more in common with you than I do with any guy I've ever dated, mind you. That's because he also likes to get his nails done and go shopping. He's one of the girls. But I don't know, he was. He was so much more relatable to me. And I thought if I go on the show and I date an older guy, I don't think that in my day to day life I ever found myself seeking out older guys and really finding them specifically attractive. It's not something I was looking for. But he looked young to me, he acted young to me, and he met me where I was at. So if that comes with being 38 and having two kids in the moment, I was like, cool. There's worse things to have love.

[Natalie Joy]

Also, y' all do your morning affirmations. And he's like, I'm a bad bitch. I'm a baddest bitch.

[Libby]

Yeah, I taught him that little line.

[Natalie Joy]

You said I taught him that little line.

[Libby]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Is there any chance that or maybe you guys already have in terms of you and Justin reconnecting and exploring that relationship, or is that ship sailed?

[Libby]

Give us the T. Vanelle.

[Andrew]

Yeah. No, Justin and I haven't spoken. Haven't spoken since the show. We had a quick conversation just about his experience and stuff like that. But ultimately I think it's just. It's been gone. Like there's feelings that's been lost already. Yeah. I think it would just be weird.

[Justin]

Weird.

[Nick]

Now, what if. If you had a chance to ask Jorge anything or get any clarification about your experiences on the show together, would you have any?

[Andrew]

No.

[Danny]

Okay.

[Libby]

No.

[Danny]

Okay. Okay. All right.

[Nick]

Well, ladies, it's been great catching up with you.

[Andrew]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Hopefully we'll get to get to do it again soon. Well, excited to see what happens with you and Andrew, you know, sorry it didn't work out with you and Jorge.

[Andrew]

It's okay.

[Nick]

You seem like you're glowing, like you

[Natalie Joy]

are doing just great.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

We definitely hope to catch up with you and get you aware you.

[Natalie Joy]

What is your love life like now?

[Andrew]

I'm single.

[Natalie Joy]

Are your like DMS open? Are you?

[Andrew]

My DMs are like wide open.

[Leia]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Very single. Um, yeah, I'm still searching for my husband.

[Natalie Joy]

Who is your celebrity crush?

[Andrew]

I would say Michael B. Jordan hit her up.

[Natalie Joy]

Michael B. I do believe he is single. So maybe. And he is.

[Nick]

We saw him at a party last week.

[Natalie Joy]

We saw him at a party last week.

[Danny]

Perfect.

[Andrew]

Interesting.

[Natalie Joy]

So, yeah, maybe there's something there.

[Vanille]

Something.

[Danny]

Something.

[Nick]

Well, ladies, it's good. Great catching up with you. We really appreciate you being a part of this show and yeah, just excited for the journey.

[Natalie Joy]

Enjoy it.

[Leia]

Stay off.

[Natalie Joy]

Don't. Don't read the comments. Don't let the comments get to you.

[Libby]

Already did. Said, girl, you don't know who the Spice Girls is. Open a book. Said, I've been reading. Nothing said anything about the Spice Girl.

[Natalie Joy]

What books are you reading?

[Justin]

Spice.

[Libby]

I don't see that in my self help spiritual books.

[Vanille]

Okay.

[Nick]

All right.

[Leia]

Well, Libby and Vanilla, those are my girls. I mean, I really just, I vibed

[Natalie Joy]

with Libby, walked in herself.

[Vanille]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

Just like, I don't really care what you think. Like, yeah, she's great.

[Nick]

She is one of the younger ones and she obviously has a very bubbly personality and I think, I think sometimes people will assume they see that and read bubbly, immature. I think as this, as the season goes along, get to know Libby a little bit more, you will see those more moments of why there's a connection between her and Andrew.

[Leia]

What I enjoy about the show a lot, and especially with Libby and Vanill is how I think you have the opportunity to see a lot of younger people who still have whimsy, whimsical natures. But like, that doesn't necessarily relate to immaturity. Right. Like you were saying. And I think there's a lot of complexities to, you know, anyone at any age of just like what emotional maturity means and how that presents itself. And I think it's a very interesting kind of like case study across this who whole show and meeting everyone in the cast of just being like, wow, everyone really does have a lot to them.

[Natalie Joy]

Getting into some secret lives of Mormon wives.

[Andrew]

I love this.

[Natalie Joy]

Hate to say it. I'm kind of struggling with too much dad talk. Too much dad talk. Way too much airtime for the husbands, the dads.

[Sierra]

I saw a meme about this that said this season four of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives feels like in the Barbie movie when the Kens take over Barbie land. Like, it's just like, it's just mojo dojo.

[Justin]

Right?

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Natalie Joy]

And guys like, I didn't. I don't want to watch this show to hear all these men be like, we're emasculated.

[Nick]

We also want to make money, our women.

[Leia]

Right.

[Vanille]

That's not why the show is a bad talk.

[Leia]

You know, I saw an amazing, amazing. I forget if it was like a tick tock or whatever, but it was like, these men need to go to trade school. Get off TikTok. Go to trade school, become an electrician, become a plumber.

[Nick]

I will say, overall, it's still a great show. I agree with everyone's take here that, like, what, What?

[Danny]

Why?

[Nick]

I don't, I don't care about dad talk. It's like, it would, it's fun if it's like, oh, this is what my wives do. So, like, for one day we're gonna do a TikTok, like pretending to be our wives.

[Vanille]

It was a funny bit.

[Nick]

It was a bit, right?

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Nick]

It's not the same as, like, for example, like, when I met Natalie, I had this show here and she was a surgical tech and I was, as I got to know her, I was like, hey, I think you're kind of a star and if you have any interest in doing this with me, I think you'd be great. And I really encouraged Natalie if. If she was comfortable and said, I. I think I think you could be a star. And as it turns out, she is. And now she's hosting her own Netflix show. And I think it would be weird for me at this stage, given her amazing successes that she's enjoying for me at this point, to be like, oh, all right, calm down, you know, you're getting a little too successful. But it's. I don't think for a second that Jesse went up to Jordan and said, hey, I think you're a real natural when it comes to this Tik Tok dad talk.

[Natalie Joy]

Got an opportunity to go to Vanderpump Villa Crickets.

[Danny]

He said, dad talk is funnier than mom talk.

[Leia]

Also not true.

[Vanille]

Of course they'll all flirt with me. But they also, by the way, like, their whole shtick of their dad talk is making fun of the fact that their women are like, yeah, know, like, it just.

[Nick]

It doesn't. Yeah, it comes across really kind of.

[Vanille]

Yeah. Like, their most recent TikTok was. Was Jacob and, and Jordan. And they were like, who's going to pay the bill?

[Danny]

Right?

[Vanille]

And I think Jacob put down Macy's book and Jordan was putting down like a hair extension. And it was like, who. Who's paying for the bill? You know what I mean? And it was like, that's what I'm saying is funny. Their whole shtick is making fun of the fact that they are the husband.

[Nick]

But that's the thing, though. Like, is it A stick or is it something that bothers them? You know, because they keep going back and, like, ho, ho, funny. TikTok. My wife is the breadwinner versus, like, Jordan doing confessional. Being like, I feel really emasculated by my wife's success and I want my. I want the credit I deserve.

[Sierra]

So I started dad talk.

[Nick]

Yeah, it's like. It's like, ew.

[Danny]

We did only see the first two episodes of the season. For the audience listening.

[Leia]

Yes. This is just episode one and two.

[Danny]

To Nick's point, though, like, it confuses me to, like, place the timeline of when this was shot because. Because of course, we've seen the after effects of Jordan reacting to how he was portrayed last season, but this season still portrays that version of Jordan. You know what I mean? Like, it's still portraying the Jordan that's, like, kind of creating situations behind.

[Sierra]

But, like, is the show portraying it or is that just, like, who he is and he's just kind of.

[Danny]

What I'm saying, though, is, like, even when he came on our show, like, there was a little bit of, like, him showing that he's trying, but, like, I don't see that.

[Nick]

Well, first two episodes, the show is moving at a lightning pace that, like, I don't know how. How they are going to keep up and live, live, live. I mean, it's giving. It's giving.

[Leia]

We'll do it live.

[Nick]

To me, it's giving that. The producers of the show don't know how much they have left with these women as their stars continue to blow up and rise. And they're just going to keep filming until someone says stop. I mean, they're. They're going so fast. And then we have this whole news cycle that's based off of season four, which is like, Mikaela and Jace are separated, and then you're like, oh, my God. Oh, no. And then Mikaela's kind of out there saying, not really, or, we got back together. Which I can only imagine must be very difficult if you did separate, worked on a lot of your shit, and then got back together. But the world in Your audience is 6 months or 12 months behind your trauma that you have to now relive.

[Vanille]

Yeah, well, Jesse kind of even talks about that on the show where they're getting ready for the reunion, and she's like, all these things are gonna come back up with Demi and with Jordan, and, like, she's starting to get into a better place with both of them. And it's like, all this is gonna, like, resurface again.

[Danny]

The Michaela stuff is confusing, though, with Jace, and this is why on pop, I said, like, let's just wait till we hear more about it, because that those headlines came from the show this season airing.

[Nick]

So it's like she was saying that these publications.

[Danny]

So she was saying that stuff was talked about, and there's context that's missing. So that's where it's like, I think she's responding to the show itself.

[Nick]

Not, like, it's hard to say. Yeah, it's hard to say because these women are so online and they are trying to very much juggle their lives that are very much intertwined with this show. I will say Taylor picking up her crush at the airport is some of the most real 20, 26.

[Leia]

Like, yes.

[Nick]

You know, like, yes.

[Justin]

Right?

[Leia]

Yes.

[Nick]

You're meeting someone line long distance.

[Danny]

Been there.

[Nick]

If you haven't picked up a crush at the airport, you not living. You're not.

[Danny]

It's, like, awkward, but, like, rightfully so. Why not?

[Leia]

Oh, my God.

[Nick]

Oh, my God. You're like, what are we doing?

[Danny]

I literally even the person being picked up. Yes.

[Natalie Joy]

Like, Nick and I did that a lot in the beginning. And I remember it was always like, what do I wear? Like, do I wear something? Then you're like, but then I'm flying. Like, I don't need to do too much.

[Danny]

Like, I just like, do I bring flowers?

[Natalie Joy]

Nick definitely was not.

[Nick]

I did not bring her flowers.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Nick]

Well, I loved the airport pickup scene. It was.

[Natalie Joy]

It was cute.

[Nick]

It was very cute. Very relatable.

[Natalie Joy]

And she was very giddy.

[Danny]

Wasn't it very interesting, the Jordan part of after they return from the villa, and Jordan being like, yeah, like, I told Jesse and then being like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Why did you, like, break the bro code? That was, like, very backwards to me. I was like, I mean, it's like suddenly he's doing kind of the right thing, but now you guys are mad that he's doing that.

[Natalie Joy]

Guys, it was all. Again, this is another TV show you went on. Okay, Vanderpump Villa cameras. It's going to come out. So, like, what do you want it to come out on the. On this show that you're on to make you a little bit bigger? Or do you want it to come out on another show?

[Sierra]

But, like, why? Yeah, why would you want, like, your legacy to be like, oh, I protect my men friends when they do things wrong, and I lie to my wife. So fucking weird.

[Danny]

So we had a line where he was like, don't. If you want to keep anything wrapped Up. Don't tell this guy because he owes everything to his girl to like. And I was like, whoa, this is like admitting to.

[Vanille]

I turned on Jacob a little.

[Sierra]

Yeah, it was even Macy's guy. Jacob, right, is supposed to be like the shining star. When he got on the moon, he's like, I'm not saying anything.

[Libby]

And it's just like, failing.

[Vanille]

You are married. You can tell your wife, like, what happened.

[Sierra]

You're supposed to tell me.

[Vanille]

When I saw it on the show a year later, I'd be like, what the.

[Danny]

He's trying to do the right thing, too. Let him try to do something right. Don't, like, keep him in this bubble

[Vanille]

of now the guy Chase. I'm like, chase, you're trying to make a TV show.

[Natalie Joy]

I'm also calm down. Definitely struggling with the addition of Chase and Mason. Like, I get. Mason's dating Layla. That makes sense. Miranda's ex husband.

[Andrew]

Like, why.

[Leia]

You know, you guys know I'm kind of a Chase Stan.

[Natalie Joy]

I just don't. I don't know what he brings to the show. I can't explain it.

[Sierra]

But, like, even, like, his, like, sit down with them and it's just like, Jacob, like, why are you trying to force your wife?

[Natalie Joy]

Like, I.

[Sierra]

It's a weird dynamic.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

That, like, oh, I went away with this guy for a week, but for years, if not for a year, he's making podcasts, making comments, talking shit about your wife and her friends. And then you go on one vacation with the guy and you're like, just come sit down with him.

[Natalie Joy]

Because it's going to really make it

[Sierra]

easier for me to make friends. Make friends. You've been friends with the same group for years.

[Nick]

It's not my favorite storyline. And obviously they're doing a lot of, like, cross show and it. And it's. It's just giving, like, you know, let's take the husbands to Cheat Island.

[Sierra]

You know, I don't know.

[Nick]

It's like, it's.

[Sierra]

And then they. What did they say at Vanderpump? That they brought in the cast from another show of girls to play truth or dare with them. And I'm just like, this is a weird setup.

[Natalie Joy]

Like, all of these men, minus. I guess Chase and Dakota and I are in relationships, are married with children. Like, weird. So weird.

[Leia]

Kind of a weird thing to do. Yeah.

[Sierra]

The younger brother or whatever. And then being. Or that's dating Leila. That it was like he was being pushed by Chase or somebody to, like, make out with someone. And it's just kind of like, and then not answering Leila's text message messages. And I'm just like, this is just giving shitty men across the board.

[Nick]

It's also just like, man, last time I went to Vanderpump Villa, there was this whole situation that we never really got any real answers on that clearly, like, affected how things were. We got a lawsuit out of it.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I just want to move on.

[Sierra]

All I'm gonna tell you, I don't want to be in a room with somebody that Connor made out with in high school. And you know what I'm not gonna do? Fly overseas to be in a villa with somebody that my wife had an

[Natalie Joy]

emotional for dad talk.

[Sierra]

Like, that's just so easy.

[Leia]

It's okay. Here's what pisses me off about this, is that these guys all had so many opinions about their wives going to do things for mom talk, literally. And as soon as they get one goddamn brand deal. Oh, all of a sudden we got

[Nick]

to go to Vanderpump Villa for dad talk.

[Leia]

We got to do.

[Nick]

Oh, Marcian is there. Well, like, it's. You know, he's actually a good guy,

[Leia]

which actually is not that bad.

[Nick]

He actually is cool.

[Danny]

Like, I don't know of them panning to Demi's confessional and she's not there.

[Vanille]

They need to stop. Like, do it once.

[Danny]

The one time was funny and the second time, okay, well, maybe.

[Vanille]

And then the third and fourth and fifth and sixth, I'm like, we get it. She's not going to do an interview.

[Nick]

My understanding is that she's on season four just because again, she's going to be a pop star film so fast that they just have scenes with her. They have to.

[Danny]

Well, didn't. Yeah, didn't we see that they were trying to, like, limit the amount of scenes that they heard of her, but she is integral to of the storyline.

[Nick]

That's what I'm saying. I don't think she's the in an

[Danny]

active cast long term.

[Natalie Joy]

Well, you know.

[Nick]

All right, well, we will unpack two more episodes on Thursday.

[Natalie Joy]

We also have the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which, as we say, the beginning of this episode also giving me nothing.

[Leia]

Yeah, it's certainly a show that's airing and I'm enjoying watching it, but I

[Sierra]

just don't know what to say.

[Leia]

No, I love watching it. For the of the rest record, it, like, is kind of. It's a very, like, cool down show for me right now. Like, it's a chill watch that doesn't

[Natalie Joy]

take a lot of breaks on while we Cook supper.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Natalie Joy]

Like, I clean.

[Leia]

I deep cleaned my room while watching Beverly Hills yesterday and I gained every single amount of information.

[Danny]

Jennifer Tilly being stuck in the elevator with the mask on.

[Leia]

Yes, I did,

[Nick]

silly. It's fun.

[Leia]

I did. For the record, I love it. There's just not much.

[Natalie Joy]

It was 45 seconds of a 45 minute episode. Episode.

[Danny]

Unfortunately, Kathy Hilton saying, know your place in the room.

[Leia]

That was amazing.

[Nick]

We know that we now get these very clippable, like, moments from Kathy.

[Danny]

It's always been Kathy's M.O.

[Justin]

though.

[Danny]

Like, who's hunky dory?

[Leia]

Who's hunky dory?

[Danny]

We're in the midst of like these big things or 3,000.

[Justin]

I know.

[Nick]

But I'm no longer being like, I can't believe it. Like, I don't know.

[Leia]

I just. What the Kathy Hilton, Amanda read the Room and Know youw Place thing once does beg the question. Took her out. Took her out. That's a diabolical read. And I wonder what everyone. What the most diabolically true read everyone has gotten is.

[Sierra]

I appreciate it because I was like, there's Kathy. Like, you know what I mean? The woman that terrifies her sister. That's the Kathy I kind of want to see versus the like, oh my God, is the sky up or down Sierra?

[Danny]

Anybody remember like three seasons ago reunion when Kathy was like, you're the meanest person in Hollywood. You're just saying this because your contract's up. You bullied all these people off the show. Like, this is the Kathy where like, she just says things straight, straight up.

[Nick]

And you're like.

[Danny]

And that's a what I mean.

[Nick]

Because Kathy is. Well, she's Kathy Hilton. And I think. I think in Amanda's eyes, Dorit's an easy target.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

The read is going through a lot right now.

[Natalie Joy]

Why are we pretending that Erica didn't tell Kyle about her boyfriend? Like, why is that still.

[Sierra]

Like, we.

[Natalie Joy]

We had cameras panned to Kyle when. When Erica's like, well, no one. I told no one about that. And Kyle's like, I kind of for Kyle too.

[Danny]

And she tried to like, so, like, what are you looking for? And then I like immediately turned on. On her of like, I don't need you to be my therapist.

[Natalie Joy]

I mean, Amanda's writing a book and she's writing it right now.

[Leia]

She is writing that book.

[Natalie Joy]

She said, hi, guys. I woke up and I. And I wrote the intro. And then she takes her little computer out to go sit with. I'm writing my book.

[Danny]

The world's going to see this book.

[Natalie Joy]

I'm writing my book.

[Leia]

And she said, dorit, I. You are traumatizing me right now, and I'm making that trauma into art, and

[Natalie Joy]

I will be writing my book. Why couldn't they wipe that. Get that leaf off of Kyle's ass.

[Sierra]

Oh, my God.

[Nick]

It fell off, like, right as she almost.

[Natalie Joy]

They couldn't be like, guys, let's do that again.

[Andrew]

Kyle, walk away again.

[Natalie Joy]

Come back and sit.

[Nick]

You had a leaf on your leggings.

[Danny]

I did not even see that.

[Sierra]

Well, no, he's like, in her ass croc.

[Andrew]

It was.

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah, it was dry butts.

[Danny]

I'm sorry. I'm looking at their hearts.

[Natalie Joy]

Well, it was from the back, so

[Sierra]

you could miss it.

[Leia]

Yeah, I'm looking at the leafs, and they're back. Butts in their heart.

[Nick]

So we Southern hospitality people seem to be insane.

[Leia]

Oh, my God.

[Danny]

People said, it's episode two, and it's already giving so much.

[Leia]

It's. This show is bunker.

[Nick]

You know, the cast is all in. I do know that from the. We've met a few of them.

[Danny]

They.

[Nick]

They are like the old Vanderpump. I think a lot of people are comparing that where, like, the new Vanderpump. I'm not sure if we're totally buying the authenticity of. Of. Of its cast, but it's early. Yeah, but this. The cast of southern hospitality, you're in a very almost grateful way as fans. You're like, I don't think that's in your best interest, but thank you for doing that on tv. You know, like, they're really.

[Leia]

I mean, to watch. Currently, we have Joe Bradley, who's literally been. Instead of doing his job for the past year, has just been on tour with Matty Reese, asking Leva, can I have a bigger responsibility and can you invest in my business? And love is like, what is this business that you speak.

[Danny]

Sierra, did you peep that Joe Bradley was in that friend group chat? So the group chat that we saw the reunion, I didn't notice that being like, wait, I don't know what's going on. Because they faked her boyfriend cheating.

[Leia]

Oh, yes.

[Danny]

She basically brought up because it was Mia and Emmy. And Emmy was like, Mia was in that group chat. Mia's like, I can. I swear I was not. Or Maddie said it. Whoever. Yeah, Mia was like, I was not

[Nick]

in that group chat.

[Danny]

Producers made her pull it up. She's in the group chat. They showed other people. Joe Bradley's in that.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Leia]

And Mia was like, I wasn't.

[Nick]

You know how many Group chats. I don't realize I'm a part of that. I have on mute.

[Natalie Joy]

You can't be tr.

[Danny]

Joe's actively commenting or not commenting. He's actively texting in this group chat. So it's like nobody and I don't know, maybe Maddie and Joe have discussed this off camera, but, like, nobody has brought up that part of the storyline.

[Sierra]

Right.

[Leia]

Well, it's like, I think what really is happening on Southern hospitality right now is you really see how much you can get hurt by your friends when they do shitty things because you have. I think the TJ thing with Maddie is really a bummer because you can tell they really care about each other.

[Danny]

Well, yeah.

[Sierra]

I will say, though, that I'm like, this is like, one of the crazier story lines, because it really is. Like, she's told that her boyfriend cheated on her. She broke up with her boyfriend on one of the seasons.

[Danny]

She thought that she was gonna now love with him.

[Sierra]

Yeah. She's gonna marry him. And then she's with Joe Bradley, who she's not ready to get married with. And especially if there's a element of Joe being a part of that group chat. And she's saying that she's in intensive therapy because she doesn't know what's real and what's not anymore. And I'm like, I think that that's a very interesting, interesting plight, because it's like, even her being like, I've been DJing on tour this whole time, but I'm coming back to my home, my safe spot, to film Southern hospitality. I'm like, I don't understand the parallel of what is your reality. And I don't think she does either.

[Danny]

TJ saying I was never friends with Maddie.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Leia]

And then she's like, I have an entire PowerPoint presentation that I made showing you that we are, in fact, friends.

[Sierra]

Her sober. Was it her sponsor?

[Leia]

Oh, my God. Her master sponsor, Julia. Shout out to Maddie Reese's mass sponsor, Julia.

[Vanille]

No.

[Sierra]

They were like.

[Danny]

She's like, maybe keep that.

[Leia]

Keep the power presentation to yourself. Also, can we talk about Justin? New cast member Justin, who's literally just horny.

[Danny]

I knew you would be doppelganger Justin.

[Natalie Joy]

Yeah, my doppelganger.

[Leia]

Your doppelganger. His whole thing. He's like, I might be gay, but like, 30%. 30% gay. And then TJ got him a dick and balls decanter.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Sierra]

And then it was like, he's into me. He's got a crush on Mia. But then the night before made out With TJ and Michaels and Michaels.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

I'm like, give me this.

[Danny]

You know, I really like Molly. Something about Molly. I just love Molly.

[Sierra]

I think she's a bad bitch. I think she literally is just kind of like she's able to deal with confrontation. And I'm like, if Michaels, for example, was screaming at my face, being like, you can't be here.

[Leia]

Da, da, da. Get out.

[Sierra]

And I would probably.

[Nick]

By the way, Michaels saw him at BravoCon.

[Sierra]

Tall, gorgeous man.

[Danny]

Gorgeous.

[Leia]

He's so.

[Nick]

He's just a giant.

[Leia]

He's tall. He has a great energy.

[Sierra]

And imagine that hovering over you, telling you to get the fuck out of his establishment.

[Danny]

Michael's telling Lake, like, oh, yeah, so you made up with Molly and like, being like, I don't remember that. Don't remember that. There might have been some drinks. But yeah, I mean, you have sober thoughts.

[Leia]

Yeah, I'm also. So what I've. What I find really interesting is Maddie Reese, like, the way she's forgiving Brad and Mia but not tj.

[Sierra]

Well, TJ also didn't have a conversation with her, and now he's like, the true friendship.

[Leia]

Yeah, that is true. TJ is really go full scorched earth. And Brad and Mia did apologize.

[Danny]

Do we think the hot dog was actually named to, like, throw a dig at Maddie, or do you think TJ actually just did it?

[Leia]

Do you remember what was hot dog called?

[Sierra]

The cheat. The cheater or something like that.

[Leia]

The cheater wiener or whatever.

[Danny]

It was something like that. But, yeah, that's why she got heated in that one episode and threw Mia on the ground.

[Leia]

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[Sierra]

I don't think so. I just think it's probably like an ongoing storyline of your show. It makes sense to, like, name a hot dog after it. But the one thing I do want to talk about, though, is Emmy and Will. Will is not on the show. He didn't come back after the mental health. Whatever.

[Leia]

And guess what? I'm fine with that.

[Vanille]

I don't know.

[Danny]

He wants to be a lawyer.

[Sierra]

But it's Emmy that I'm having the issue with right now because it's kind of like I feel like the show's positioning, it is like, do you believe T.J. and Bradley, or do you believe Emmy? And then hearing that Emmy was on the phone saying that, like, Bradley makes her feel unsafe saying that, like, oh, I really got them. I kept crying and kept over emphasizing the mental health so that they wouldn't focus on Will. And it's just like, it just. It's giving very calculated. In actuality, I think you are the cause of most of these issues.

[Leia]

That is my biggest issue with Emmy is she has never been like, you know what, I fucked up.

[Sierra]

And then the second that she gets in the hot seat, what does she start doing? Hyperventilating.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Leia]

And it's like, girl, yeah. Use your words.

[Danny]

I think we need to see how more of the season unfolds because I think and to see how Emmy navigates it because unfortunately, to your point, I think she brought it into a conversation that involves race. So like now we have to see where she goes.

[Nick]

Hey, a lot of good TV out there. We're super grateful for all the great content and super grateful for all of you listening to our show. That'll do it for us today. Thank you to our guest Vanel, Libby and Justin, all from Age of Attraction. We hope you guys enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. We are back on Thursday with another wild and wacky episode of Reality recap. Also, don't forget if you haven't checked out the love is blind going deeper episode that we dropped last Friday with Amber and Britney, be sure to check that out out as well. Bye bye.

[Natalie Joy]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

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