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- [00:00]
Nick Viall
Well, as you know, Father's Day was last weekend, and I was struggling on what I should get Nick. Knowing that it's just. I just ultimately need to lean packers. And thankfully for Zazzle, I have been able to customize a huge variety of products, turning everyday items into meaningful gifts. You can browse millions of exciting designs or start from scratch. From mugs, tote bags, phone cases, cards, apparel, home decor. There are countless ways to personalize your gifts. Everything is created when you order it, so you don't have to worry about products being out of stock. So whether it's a birthday, anniversary, holiday, or baby shower, Zazzle helps create gifts that feel more thoughtful and memorable.
- [00:35]
The best relationships are the ones that have the inside jokes and the things that only you and your friends know about. And customizable gifts are a great way of communicating that with the people you
- [00:44]
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- [00:55]
Caller - Emily
i'm Kiana, and I leveled up my business with Shopify. Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business, but Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like, I can't stop. I'm addicted.
- [01:21]
Nick Viall
Start your free trial@shopify.com.
- [01:26]
Caller - Chelsea
you're crazy.
- [01:37]
Nick Viall
How's it going?
- [01:38]
Caller - Stacy
Good. How are you?
- [01:40]
Nick Viall
Good.
- [01:40]
What's your name?
- [01:42]
Caller - Stacy
I am Stacy. I'm 20 years old, and I am wondering if I should marry my boyfriend so that he can get a green card.
- [01:50]
Nick Viall
Okay, you're really gonna have to convince me.
- [01:54]
Caller - Stacy
A lot going on there.
- [01:55]
Nick Viall
Yeah, well, you're only 20. Like, the first. My first thought. Tell me about the situation.
- [02:03]
Caller - Stacy
So I met my boyfriend almost a year ago. I met him last June. He was working in Colorado for the summer. He's from Turkey and was here on a work visa. We began dating in July and kind of hit it off right off the bat. September rolls along, I go back for school, and he ends up overstaying his work visa expiration date. And the talk came up of eventually getting married so that he could stay.
- [02:38]
Nick Viall
Who brought it up?
- [02:39]
Caller - Stacy
Him. But obviously, like, you know, there was a mutual kind of, okay, what do we do now?
- [02:44]
Nick Viall
You like him. So there's that.
- [02:46]
Caller - Stacy
I Do I do? This is a first boyfriend for me. First like official boyfriend I've had. I've gone through all the situationships, but I feel like that might be a small part I should mention as well.
- [03:02]
Nick Viall
I mean it's definitely a part boyfriend
- [03:03]
Caller - Stacy
for me, but on the list first
- [03:05]
Nick Viall
like reasons why not to, you know, maybe it's not top five, but you know, what are your, what are your fam.
- [03:12]
Caller - Stacy
What's your family that might. I brought it up to my mom and my mom obviously is like, no, do not do this. Like she, she wants to support me in the best way she can and she knows that I really do love and cherish my relationship with him, but at the same time, you know, I'm her first daughter so she does not want me getting married at 20 years old.
- [03:37]
Nick Viall
Yeah, yeah. What are your reasons?
- [03:39]
Caller - Stacy
She wants to support me in the best way.
- [03:41]
Nick Viall
She certainly you would miss him if he had to go back. But why, why, why would you want to do this?
- [03:50]
Caller - Stacy
So the thing is, since he kind of has passed that deadline, if he were to go back home, he cannot come back is one of the main big things. He has had friends that have come here and they just cannot come back. There's like a two year wait kind of thing. And then even after that it would be really hard for him to come back.
- [04:12]
Nick Viall
And so there's a two year wait or you can never come back.
- [04:15]
Caller - Stacy
It's a, it's a two year. I know for sure there is a two year rule after you do come on the work visa. There's a two year wait. But they're, they're kind of stingy with how they let people in and who they choose to let people in. So if they see that like he's come here before, they're typically going to pick somewhat or like let more people in that have not been in before.
- [04:40]
Nick Viall
Gotcha. So not impossible, but I understand difficult. What are the reasons to marry him?
- [04:46]
Caller - Stacy
He's done a lot for me outside of just like in our relationship I was without a car for quite a bit of time and he literally just let me have his car. He drove it down to me and literally just let me have it. He's done a lot for me in other areas too where it's like, I don't necessarily go, you know, I don't necessarily like to go out and brag about things, but he's, I do really love him and I do see a genuine future with him. And so I, I feel like for me in my head it's like, okay, all I have to do is go sign a paper, and then if we don't want to keep the marriage status, then we can divorce.
- [05:31]
Nick Viall
I mean, yeah, I guess. How can I be helpful? I mean, I think. I mean, I can tell you I don't think you should do it. I can tell, you know. Do you want me to explain all the reasons why? You know, but I imagine you. You anticipated me suggesting that.
- [05:48]
Caller - Stacy
Yeah. Yeah, maybe a little bit. The thing I'm stuck between is I feel like I'm going to regret either way. Like, we've talked about it a bunch of times, and I feel like going both ways. Like, if I don't, I know I have a feeling that I'm going to regret it and I'm going to be like. But like, our relationship was so good. Like, I feel like I'm looking for reasons not to, because as of right now, it seems so simple to me. It's as it's just signing a paper.
- [06:15]
Nick Viall
Great. Well, let me help you. Give you reasons not to. Well, like, listen, the biggest thing is you're only 20 years old. And the difficult part for you, I mean, without. You know, and I'm sure the. The challenge your mom has and your parents have or anyone else you know is in the challenge.
- [06:36]
Caller - Stacy
I'll.
- [06:36]
Nick Viall
I'll have, like, as my daughters get older, like, how do you change? How do you teach perspective? You know? You know, you're 20 years old today, is the oldest you've ever been. You know, you've never felt this old today. And when you're 90, it'll be the same. It'll be like, oh, I WISH I was 80 again. You know, there's a. There's a limited amount of perspective that you have. Like, I could sit there and tell you, boy, just go away till you get older. But, like, it's hard, you know, it's just harder for you to conceptualize. There's something I think about a lot of. A lot. You know, I'm 45 years old, I'm married. I got a kid. I got two kids on the way. You know, Nana and I have been together for. I've known her for seven years, which blows my mind when I think about it, you know, because time does go fast. You know, My first girlfriend I met when I was 18. You know, we had one of those, like, typical, like, first love relationships. And we got together and we broke up a bunch of times. And she was in my life for seven years. So I met her at 18. We broke up. Finally broke up when I was 25. She was such like a huge part of my life in that period. I mean, like, truly, like, I mean, it's kind of almost embarrassing when I think about it, but like, with all the toxicity in that relationship, there was just a lot of like emotional highs and lows. And it was just like she consumed the vast majority of like my emotional energy. This person is a fever dream in my life today. Like, they're a distant memory. Like, she at one point was like this. She was my kind of my whole life, you know, I mean, and very close with my family. Like, I mean, we were very, you know, we were together for seven years. And now, now I don't, like, I don't know. I don't know anything about her, you know. And it's kind of crazy. I always like, as I get older, that always like, you know, kind of blows my mind sometimes where I just have these memories of a different life. You know, I, you know, I, you know, I, as you know, you'll be able to reinvent yourself. You know, you just have so much life in front of you that you can't. You don't even know what that's going to look like. I remember, I remember being 18, it was my freshman year of college and you know, like a lot of college freshmen, I was a little homesick and I met my then first girlfriend like right before college, right? So I met her in the summer before college and I was looking love and I just like all I, like all I. My first freshman year of college, all I did was miss my girlfriend. That was the majority of my freshman year was missing my girlfriend because she didn't go to the same college as me. And I was so kind of just like love struck that I remember. Like I wanted to quit college. I want like her dad was in construction. I was like, I'll just be a handyman, you know. Like, I just like I, I was convinced that that's all I wanted to do. Then went one. And then we broke up. And then I, you know, her grandfather was a teacher. I mean this is nuts. But her, her like her grandfather was a teacher and she was like, she just break up with me for reasons. And I was always trying to figure out how to get her back. I convinced myself that I wanted to go back and be a teacher. Like, I was like ser. Like I, I convinced my parents and I was pretty dead set on it. And then finally I realized I was too money motivated to be a teacher. Listening to you at this stage of your life at 20 years old thinking about making this very serious decision now. You're right. People can get divorced, you know, and I certainly know people who have made similar decisions to the one you're considering making. And, you know, sometimes it just like, is it a sim. You know, it seemed like it was as simple as maybe you are hoping it would be. If it doesn't work out, like, we'll just sign a paper, get divorced or whatever. But you're just putting an immense amount of trust in someone that, like, you're still getting to know right now to, like, count, you know, you're the biggest reason why if I'm sitting here and I had like, 30 seconds to try to convince you not to do it would be like, it's your decision tree, I guess, is a little hypocritical. And what I mean by that is, like, you're talking about marriage. You're talking. And part of your, like, I can't think of a reason not to do it. And you're also, like, thinking, I feel like damned if I do, damned if I don't. I'm gonna regret it either way. But I think that's a little inaccurate because I think you have to. What will the regret look like, you know, so to speak? And what's the best and worst case scenario of either? I would argue to you that if this is. And this is where you'll probably be resistant to receiving and a little stubborn, you know, I would be if I were in your shoes. It's one of those things like, you know, you've, you know, if you, if you, you know, set it free, if you. Whatever. I don't know what the saying is, but, like, the point is, is if, like, if this is. If this relationship is as strong as you think it might be, and you hope that it is, then you guys will make it work. And if he is really all about you, he'll figure it out. You know, people have done more than what is potentially in front of him to make a relationship that was truly meaningful to them work. And if he really loves you and if you really are worth spending the rest of your life with, he'll make it work. He'll go to Turkey. He'll figure it out. I understand two years is not ideal. I understand there's no guarantees after two years, but I bet he can figure it out. And I think right now he's in a situation where he's pitching you, he's selling you, and you really. He. And you truly couldn't possibly figure out how it's like, honestly, in a weird way, you guys are kind of like, you're on the Bachelor right now. You know what I mean? And what I mean by that is I remember on my first time I went on the Bachelor and I remember going in very kind of skeptical, be like, all right, I'm gonna go for the experience. I don't know what this is gonna be like. But then once I showed up, I was like, all right, I'm here. So I'll just kind of immerse myself in this kind of social experiment and I'll just kind of let myself. I'll go with it. I was attracted to her. And then, you know, we had some chemistry and wouldn't you know, we hit it off pretty fast. And I remember talking to a producer when they were like checking in and asking how I was feeling. And I was, you know, and I was self aware enough to know that I was, you know, I'm very competitive, you know, and then this is an environment you're competing with like 20 some other people. And I remember being like, I could, I couldn't tell the difference of like how much of was, was, was what was it more of my competitive side? Was it the atmosphere, was this controlled environment that was really causing me to feel what I feel, or was it these truly authentic feelings and this kind of like our compatibility, our chemistry, whatever it was. And I truly couldn't tell the difference because I was in such this kind of crazy situation and you guys are in this crazy situation and I no doubt you guys like each other and no doubt there's some real love and mutual interest there. But he is literally fighting in a way for his, like, if he wants to stay here and he doesn't want to go back to Turkey, and I don't know what it's like in Turkey. And you know, and you know, in some of those situations, real desperation could set in and he could be convincing himself of how he feels so that he can convince you it's not even necessarily Machiavellian or, you know, like, you know, manipulative in a way that's like, you know, he's really, you know, it could be all feeling completely genuine from his part, but he needs to make this work, you know, and so it's, it's. It would be almost impossible for him to truly know the authentic authenticity of his feelings and you as well. And I think that's just a huge risk on your part to bet on a relationship and a person that, like, who, who, who, who's in a situation where it's hard for them to be, to know how authentic they're being. You know, marriage can be very difficult to get out of, and it can be very devastating. And also just breakups in general can be devastating. And, you know, I would just hate for you to make such a big decision that can truly change your life forever. So when I say like, the pros and cons, the best and worst case for either, if you don't marry him and he goes back to Turkey, from what I can gather, the worst case scenario is you never see him again. I would argue that for that worst case scenario situation to happen, he, you two would have to give up on each other. If this man truly wanted to make it work and he got this far, he got here, met you, seems like a hard worker. If you're worth it, he'll. He'll find it. He'll find a way. So the worst case scenario of him moving back, of you not seen together, I think has more to do with you guys giving up on each other and less to do with like, you know, the, the country of Turkey or the United States of America is gonna like, stand in your way of love. On the flip side, you marry on, the worst case scenario is, man, there's a lot of them, you know, like, he's not who he says he was, you know, like, or, you know, and that not to get all like. But more importantly, like, it's just like he is, he is this person, but like, you still don't know entirely who he is. And also, like, how old is he, by the way?
- [16:30]
Caller - Stacy
He is going to be turning 20
- [16:32]
Nick Viall
here, so he's also incredibly young, you know, and so like, you both just have a lot of life to live. I think there's just a lot of unknown possibilities in both of your lives that make the two of you working out that much more difficult, you know? And then what if you guys had kids together or whatever? It's just like, if this doesn't work out, this could make the next 10, 15 years of your life really difficult, really emotionally challenging.
- [17:02]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [17:02]
Nick Viall
As opposed to like, you know, he moves back to Turkey, you guys keep in touch. You have this like, long distance boyfriend. You miss him a lot, you're sad you don't get to see him physically, you know, obviously, FaceTime. But then like, things get weird or he gets distant or you meet someone, or he meets someone, and then, you know, you'll, you'll have to go through like a, a breakup and that will suck and it'll be difficult to get Over. But that will be like, you know, that'll take you six to 12 months tops, you know, and then you'll. And then you'll move on. You just will. It'll. You. You just factually will. And then two years later, almost certainly you'll look back and you'll be like, do you remember when I almost got married to that guy from Turkey? And you'll be like, holy, that's crazy. Like, you just. You just will. You know, like, you. Even if he's the greatest guy ever, if it doesn't work out, it just. You just will. Like, there's. And your feelings could change in a dime. And his feelings could change in a dime. It's just like you're. You have so much life in front of you that it's hard not to like, be, you know, to. To explore new ideas and things and have it really change your perspective. And this would really limit you. I've been a lot. Doing a lot of talking. What are your thoughts? What. What about what. What about anything I said connects with you.
- [18:24]
Caller - Stacy
I definitely agree with, like, limiting my, like the rest of my life. I've definitely had that feeling, too. The issue with not getting married is I don't think you would go back. I think he would stay here. And that would make things hard for me is knowing that he's still here and that he's like. I think it would be actually easier for me if he. If I knew for sure he was just going to go back and I would never see him again.
- [18:53]
Nick Viall
If you don't marry him, then what happens next? He stays in the United States. But what about. What about the two of you?
- [19:00]
Caller - Stacy
I think he would try to pursue other ways to stay.
- [19:04]
Nick Viall
I mean, that's got to be your answer. His motivation, his top priority right now is not you. It is staying here. And you can be a priority. And again, that doesn't mean he doesn't care about you or love you, and it doesn't mean you're not his first choice, but you're not his top priority. It would be a wild. You would be literally betting against yourself, and you would be betting in. In your life would be the pot. And I just think, listen, I get the thing I'm going to struggle with the most with my daughters as they get older is just to try to like. And it's the thing that's hardest to teach is, again, perspective. Like, I. I wish I could just, like, reach through the screen and, like, put my, like, like some kind of, like, wizard and put, like, my Hands over your head and like you would like have the type of like perspective of I have done gained over the years. I think that what teaches people that is just the real like the, When I talked about like the memories I have that like I had this whole life and I remember these insane emotional highs and lows from that life. Moments of like, I can't go on or you know, just like feeling intensely strong about this person in this relationship only for them to be a distant memory. It's like, it's almost a fever dream. And I think about just friends I've made and you know, if I married that girl, I mean, I literally am not sitting here today. You know, my life is completely different. I, you know, I don't go on tv. I don't, you know, I don't, I don't, you know, like, I would not be able to have accomplished so many of the dreams I've been able to accomplish if I had done that. I had to wait till I was 33 before like some crazy shit happened where I got a phone call and someone's like, hey, you want to go on this TV show? And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, you know, and listen, I'm not saying you sit around and wait for some crazy things to happen, but like so much about your life and so much about my success and happiness in life has been my ability to show restraint and to is someone who's not a patient person to practice a little patience and to think about things long term. And if I, you know, another bit of advice I could try, I wish I could hope I could teach my daughters, is to like in your decision tree of life, especially when you're, when, when you're younger, I think it's harder to think long term. And I think most people have a hard time thinking long term when they know exactly what they want. In the short term, what you want is him. And you want to feel that security of not missing him and losing him. That's all you really want right now. If he wasn't from Turkey, you would be thrilled with the boyfriend status. The better you get, and we always get better and that comes with perspective, but the better you can get at just considering what your decisions today, how they can affect you long term and taking those seriously and recognizing that. I don't know, like five years seems like a forever from now. But I, it will come and when it does, I want to, I want to be as. I want to be even happier then than I am today. If you can get, if you can get good at that. That'll. It'll. That'll. It'll help you in life so much because so many people just struggle with that. You know, I, I tell, like, people I know or, like, your decisions matter.
- [22:50]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [22:51]
Nick Viall
So much of people in life are like, well, if it's meant to be, you know, everything happens for a reason, pray on it. And not to discount people's faith, but even for the religious people out there, at least the Christians, you're told to believe in free will. And the greatest gift, we're told as Christians, is that God gave us the ability to choose. And some choices work out and some don't, you know, and hopefully the ones that you make that don't work out, you will. You're willing to learn from them. And then you can say things like, everything happens for a reason. Mostly because you were willing to learn. But we make choices that suck and they're hurtful to us and our people around us, and they're. And I think the better you can get at just knowing that. Just be like, listen, my decisions matter. I'm going to make good choices. I'm going to make bad choices. I'm going to have to live with some of those consequences of the bad choices. Hopefully I learn. But, like, but my choices matter. I'm not just making choices knowing that, like, you know, destiny will take care of the rest. The fact that you can confidently say that if, if you don't marry him, he's going to most certainly stay in the States, and as much as he might like you and love you, he is going to try to find another woman to marry is all the information you need to know.
- [24:10]
Caller - Stacy
Yeah.
- [24:11]
Nick Viall
You have everything in front of you.
- [24:14]
Caller - Stacy
Yeah.
- [24:15]
Nick Viall
And, and, and you don't know what you're. You don't even know what you're risking. I couldn't even have imagined at 20 years old that 13 years later, after I had thought that I had put a whole, like, decade of effort and work into my professional career, that I would completely change my life and completely change my career. And just like, just. It was almost like two different lives, and I couldn't even. I literally couldn't have imagined it. And I wouldn't even know what I'm saying no to or saying yes to. You know, think of your wildest dream and consider the possibility that this decision would cost you that.
- [24:55]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [24:56]
Caller - Stacy
I feel like what just makes it so hard for me is you're gonna feel heartbroken.
- [25:00]
Nick Viall
Yeah. I mean, that's what sucks. You know that if you make this that's, you know, this is like, truly, this is like, this. This is literally like a watershed, like at a watershed mode. I don't even know what the definition is. Not only could you be making a, like a very difficult decision that's gonna make you sad, but you making that decision, knowing that it's what's best for you long term is going to be such a great lesson for you. I can't even explain it. And I hope that you make it for yourself because that's kind of my point. You're right. If you make the right decision in the short run, it's gonna re. It's gonna hurt and it's gonna feel like the wrong decision and it's go to be heartbreaking and you're going to be really sad and it's going to tear you apart. And to your point, knowing in your gut that he's probably not going to leave, he's going to stick around, you anticipate having to do the whole, like, do I watch his Instagram stories? Do I not? You know, like, I'm going to drive myself crazy wondering what he's doing and am I going to be regretting my choice? And would it just be easier to. You know, that's how you're thinking right now. I could just sign a marriage certificate and all my short term problems and worries and concerns will go away. I will have him. And that sounds a hell of a lot easier than six months of heartache and pain. But you'd be trading six months of heartache and pain for a lifetime of possibility and the possibility of all your wildest dreams coming true.
- [26:23]
Caller - Stacy
Yeah, it's just, it will be sad and like, I'm aware that I'm doing the most that I can to avoid that, but I'm just not doing a good job. You know, every other day I'm just like, well, what if things can be okay and what if it ends really good? And then, you know, obviously, what if it ends really bad? And so I'm just in between that every other day.
- [26:49]
Nick Viall
What do you mean? What do you mean by the ends? Good or bad?
- [26:52]
Caller - Stacy
What if we do just get married and then I can do that for him and then, like, it's hard for me because I know, like, things that are going on back home too. And so I know that, like, me doing this would change his life ultimately. Like, I don't know, in a way, I almost feel like I. Not that I owe it to him, but I want to. I want to be able to do that for him. Because I know he's done so much for me too.
- [27:22]
Nick Viall
Yeah. Definitely not the same. Letting him use your car, letting you use his car is not the same as you sacrificing your entire future.
- [27:31]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [27:33]
Nick Viall
And you also don't owe him anything. What you have here is an opportunity to be kind of a hero. And that feels really good, you know, and that is also a driving force that you have to consider that you like, you. You're given this opportunity to feel really good about doing something really significant for someone you care about. And that's potentially also great feeling. You'll have more of those, you know, that cost you less.
- [27:57]
Caller - Emily
Yeah.
- [27:58]
Nick Viall
You're gonna have to make this decision, and this is the challenge that you have with everything inside you telling you that you should sign that paper because you know how it's gonna make you feel in that moment, and that you might be a little scared, you might have a little bit of, like, what did I do? But you'll ultimately be like, I have him and I'm happy. And any, like, fears or, like, concerns you have, you will quickly just kind of like, tuck away. Because in that moment, you will both be so high on. We have each other. He's like, I got. I get to stay if you don't marry him. You know that. You know the feeling you're going to feel right away, which is probably heartbreak and sadness and pain and whatever. Whatever good is going to come out of the decision that deep down, you know is probably the right one. You're gonna have to wait for that, and you're not gonna have. You don't know what that's gonna look like. And that could be years away. And to make it even worse, you'll still have to deal with those sadness and heartbreak and pain. And that's the challenge that is making decisions for the long term. And the people who are good at that have better lives. They just do. Maybe this is my analytical math brain, but the more good decisions you make, your life's going to be better than if you make more bad decisions. And, you know, a good decision can still not turn out. But when you make decisions based off of doing, you know, thinking more long term and not And. And avoiding the short term gratification when you consider that more often than not, you're making a healthier and better decision for yourself.
- [29:46]
Caller - Stacy
Like I was saying, it's just so my brain can't comprehend, like, what could go wrong. Essentially, I'm like, okay, like, if we sign a prenup, like, he. He's had friends that have gotten citizenship within three months after getting married. And so it's just like all I have to do is sign a paper. We can keep our finances separate. Whenever he gets his citizenship, we can get divorced. If it doesn't end up working out, we can break up. And that would be me changing like everything for him, essentially. And I just. At what cost for me would that take away?
- [30:29]
Nick Viall
You don't know the cost. You don't know the cost. Yeah, it could literally be like money. It could be like, it could be $5 million. You know, something could happen in five years and you could be in a position where. Whether some kind of job or like some. I don't know, I don't. Making crazy up. You're going to have to make this decision knowing that your body is telling you one thing in your heart, but you know, deep down, while you don't know why or, or what what, like what you're getting in replace of that. Because you know you're only going to get sadness right away. You're going to have to make that decision knowing that, that it's the best decision, but you don't have the answers as to why it's going to be the best decision. And that is the challenge of life. And that is the biggest challenge. People in your shoes and people at your age, that's the biggest challenge. If you can make that decision now in your life and you can feel generally good about it, I promise you your life will, will work out better than if you, if you, if you don't get good at these decisions, then listen, if you marry them, I'm not saying your life's over by any stretch of the imagination. Who knows? Like, it, it. You guys could be married for forever and have a family together. It'd be great, you know, possible. And you could like date and get married and get divorced or, and, and in the short run be like, well, is that painless? I don't know. But like, who knows? Who knows how? Who helped? You know, you meet a guy five years later and he's like, wait, you were married and why? And like, I don't know. And like, you know, maybe if he's. It's just like you, you just don't know how. What kind of complications it can have on your life.
- [32:18]
Caller - Stacy
Yeah. And I feel like that's probably the hardest part for me is just the not knowing.
- [32:25]
Nick Viall
Most importantly, he. You are not his number one priority. And you know that. And it's understandable. It's okay. He's probably fighting for what he thinks is survival or whatever. But you can't marry a guy who's. You're not, you know, like. Second lesson, I hope you. Whatever happens with this guy, assuming you don't marry him, don't marry someone if, you know you're not the number one priority.
- [32:48]
Caller - Stacy
I would almost argue that I was originally, when we first started dating, because he didn't. He did not end up planning to stay. And then, you know, we got together and then things kind of just fell into place. But I. I definitely.
- [33:02]
Nick Viall
I don't believe that. I don't believe that.
- [33:05]
Caller - Stacy
I don't know.
- [33:06]
Nick Viall
He. I'm not saying. Well, again, only because you're just like, well, if I don't marry him, he's going to. He's going to find someone else. So it's not like. So which one is. It was like, was it the. Is it being in the United States or whatever is going on in Turkey that actually made him so committed to making sure he can stay here or falling in love with you? Made him what? Fall in love with United States, but he's also not willing to just make it work with you. Like, you know, like, he could stay here and still date you. You know, like, he could date. He could be like, all right, well, I'm. You know, staying here is a risk. You know, they could catch me. They could send me back. That's all possible.
- [33:47]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [33:48]
Nick Viall
But I know I love you and I want to be with you, so let's just be together and, you know, and then, I don't know, two years from now, maybe, you know, they don't send me back and we've known each other for two more years and we're still in love, and maybe that's a different decision. But you don't even think he's going to do that. So it doesn't make it logically. Doesn't make, you know, like, I'm not trying to take anything away from you. I think he really likes you. I'm sure he does. I think he cares about you. No doubt. But, you know, there's a lot on his plate right now, and there's a lot on both your plates. And that's kind of the point is we can sit there and debate and second guess and we can be like, oh, but, like, neither of you really know how important this relationship is to both of you and how strong it is and how much it's worth giving up because you have too much on your plate and other things to consider. And it's. Again, it's like Me trying to figure out how in love I was while filming the Bachelor. It's just like, you know, there's a lot of things causing you guys to feel how you're feeling that have nothing to do with how you guys are going to work out.
- [34:55]
Caller - Stacy
I guess I feel like, and I should have mentioned this before, but he has said before, too, he just wants clarity almost. He just wants an answer. He said he'd be like, he said, if you don't want to get, if you don't want to do this right now, that's fine. We can wait two or three years. But he just wants an answer. He wants to know if he can stay and pursue this or if he needs to figure out a different plan, whether that's going back or whatever he chooses to do.
- [35:23]
Nick Viall
I think all you could practically say is, listen, I, you know, it sounds like you love him. I, I, I love you. I care about you. I'm also just not crazy. I, I, we just, we also, like, haven't been dating that long, but, but, yeah, I'm obsessed with you. I love you. I, I want to make this work, but I can't marry you. And I hope you stay. I don't want to make, I don't want you to make decisions that put you at risk. But, yeah, personally, I hope you stay. And I want to keep dating, and I want to see where it goes. I can't promise you how either of us are going to feel in two years. But, yeah, like, I'm crazy about you. And right now I hope that you know that you're my person, but I don't know that you are. And that's all you can say, and that should be enough for him.
- [36:09]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [36:09]
Nick Viall
And if it's not, and it probably won't, and if it's not, that tells you again that his object, his priorities aren't with you in this relationship.
- [36:19]
Caller - Stacy
I really appreciate your input. It definitely has put some other things into perspective for me, especially, like, saying, like, what I could be missing out on. That definitely plays a big part.
- [36:32]
Nick Viall
You should. I mean, again, the only correct way for you to try to visualize it is to just list five of your wildest dreams and be like, I'm gonna have to give some of these up to Miriam. You will survive this. It'll be sad, you know, and if he's really, if this relationship and you are really worth it to him, he'll make it work.
- [37:00]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [37:01]
Nick Viall
And I think more than anything, you gotta trust that. Don't do the thing that so many of us do, which is to discount your worth and what you bring to the table and make consistent sessions for a person or relationship who's not willing to make those same for you. And I'm glad he let you use his car. That was very nice of him. It is not the same.
- [37:20]
Caller - Stacy
Yeah.
- [37:21]
Nick Viall
And who knows, it could still work out with him. But the fact that you, in your gut feel like it's not going to work out if you say no should be your answer. And that's the challenging part.
- [37:31]
Caller - Stacy
I just feel like even if I say no, then I. Like, I want to. I. I can't. I struggle with letting go and I want to. Like, I care about him and I want him to. Even if we don't end up getting married and he decides to go back home. Like, I want to be there to help him. I want to help him figure things out.
- [37:53]
Nick Viall
Yeah, that's. That's nice. But like, part of you wanting to do that is just to keep him close. If he needs an answer, you should give him the answer. I hope you give him a no answer. But the rest of how things are going to play out, just let it play out. You know, you don't really know how things are going to go. He certainly doesn't know. But just don't sacrifice your future. It's not worth it.
- [38:14]
Caller - Stacy
Yeah. Thank you.
- [38:16]
Caller - Chelsea
All right.
- [38:17]
Nick Viall
All right. Yeah, take care.
- [38:19]
Caller - Stacy
Okay, thank you.
- [38:20]
Nick Viall
Let us know what you decide.
- [38:21]
Caller - Stacy
Yep.
- [38:22]
Nick Viall
All right.
- [38:22]
Caller - Stacy
Thank you.
- [38:23]
Caller - Emily
Thanks for that. Bye.
- [38:24]
Nick Viall
What's up everybody? Don't forget that all Vile Files plus content is ad free plus for all you ask Nick listeners out there. Your update specials are ready and waiting for you. I know you are very interested on the follow up calls. What has happened to these people after they heard my advice? Did it help them? Did it hurt them? Has their life changed? Well, you can find out on Update plus and you can get Update plus behind Vile Files Plus. So go to vialfiles.com to sign up. You will be glad that you did. Finding a good bottle of wine can feel surprisingly complicated or confusing. If you're like me, you, you've usually always picked bottles by the label and not knowing much about the wine or maybe the price point. Well, with First Leaf they make that whole wine experience so much better. First of all, you no longer have to lug wine bottles from the grocery store to your house. And look, this is unnecessarily heavy. Do you ever have a grocery bag break with a wine bottle? Sucks. No one likes it. Well, with First Leaf, they're sending it right to your door. Every shipment includes food pairing recommendations and tasting notes, making it easier to choose the right wine for any occasion. Also, it's a great conversation starter. You just sound smarter at dinner parties. It's also just fun to know a little bit more about wine. It's why it's such a fun thing to learn about. First Leaf also has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. So if you're not absolutely obsessed with the bottle of the wines they're sending you, well no problem they you have 100% of satisfaction guarantee. First Leaf works directly with wineries, so members get access to award winning and unique wines not always available in stores. It's always great to get a better selection with First Leaf than what you're going to find at stores. So whether you're opening a bottle with dinner, hosting with friends, or just relaxing at home, having wine specifically for your taste feels like a great treat. Also with First Leaf, we always have a couple wine bottles at home and so you know, you get invited to a friend's house, it's always nice to bring a bottle of wine. It always saves us the unnecessary trip to the liquor store or the wines or the grocery store. To get something just makes life that much more convenient. Stop settling for wines that don't quite hit the mark. Head to try firstleaf.com v I a l l to sign up and you'll get 50% off your first box plus free shipping for an entire year. That's T R Y F I R S T l e a f.com/v I a l l try firstleaf.com v I
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- [43:19]
Caller - Chelsea
Hi, I am Chelsea. I'm 25 and I'm considering getting back with my sex addicted ex boyfriend.
- [43:30]
Nick Viall
Okay, well let's figure it out.
- [43:33]
Caller - Chelsea
I could give you like the whole backstory.
- [43:36]
Nick Viall
Well, let's just start with, you know, just your sentence. I think I'm concerning getting Back together with my sex addicted ex boyfriend. That's a. That's a loaded sentence. There's a lot in there. So I'm assuming when you say sex addicted that that is your. He's cheated on you.
- [43:53]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah, we dated for eight months and I found a text message in his phone that he was seeking out hookups with another. Another man.
- [44:08]
Nick Viall
Okay.
- [44:09]
Caller - Chelsea
Behind my back. And so I found the message in his phone and I left. And I was like, I'm done. You know, I didn't even speak to him. Whenever I saw it, I. I left. And then I ended up texting him later and said, you're hiding who you are. I can't be with you. Cheating is not okay in any instance. And he responded and was like, I'm sorry. And then he checked himself into therapy. Like the next day started going to therapy and.
- [44:43]
Nick Viall
What do you mean checked himself into therapy? He got a therapist or he went.
- [44:47]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah, he immediately got a therapist.
- [44:50]
Nick Viall
That sounded a little bit more intense than it sounds like. He checked himself into like some sort of. No, no facility. He, like, he just. He just got a therapist?
- [44:58]
Caller - Chelsea
Yes, he got a therapist. Like the next day. I didn't speak with him or anything for two weeks. And then he ended up texting me, like, can we talk? And so we ended up talking. He came over and we just spoke and basically come to find out he had this porn addiction that I had no idea about. He was watching porn like every night that we weren't together.
- [45:28]
Nick Viall
Like, what do you mean? Like, like he would watch it and masturbate and be done or he was like, he's going on like, you know, porn marathons?
- [45:36]
Caller - Chelsea
No, just that like he would watch it and be done.
- [45:42]
Nick Viall
I mean, like, listen, I definitely think like, you know, there's a whole conversation about like the porn industry, how readily it avail is available to everyone and especially young people. And it definitely, I think, has a lot of negative consequences on our psyche. And this is not necessarily a great thing, but I think, you know, a lot of guys out there who are watching porn on like, on that level of consistency, which is like ultimately, like use it as a visual stimulant. If they're masturbating and what are they? And whether they're in or out of a relationship, like masturbation is a fairly like, common thing. Just people do, especially young men. Which is all to say, it is. It just kind of sounds like from the little bit you've already told me, and I'm happy to hear more, that he is still processing who he is and what's going on. And he is coming up with other things that sound easier for him to accept than maybe whatever the truth is. It's like I have a porn addiction. I don't know. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I don't know, but I guess does that. I don't know if him masturbating to some porn every night, I don't think that made him go online and seek the companionship of another person, let alone a man, you know, like, so is he confused about his sexuality? Is he figuring that out? Is he bisexual? Is he gay?
- [47:08]
Caller - Chelsea
So I can give you more background because I know a little bit more now. I actually talked to him earlier this week, but he. He started going to therapy and he basically rediscovered these traumas that happened to him as a child and things that should happen to no child. And I. I don't want to get, like, too much into it because it's not really my story to tell. But he had, like, compartmentalized these things that happened to him, and he never. He never spoke about it to anyone. He kind of just kept it in. He didn't tell, you know, his parents when something bad happened to him. And so now he's like. He's never really been, like, vulnerable about this stuff. And so now he's, like, telling anyone and everyone. He's telling his friends, he's telling his parents, he's going to therapy. And, like, he's doing all these things. And so for me, it's like our relationship. So before this, like, our relationship was very good. Like, he was my best friend. We were having so much fun together. We had never really been in, like, through anything hard. We were. It was like. It really was sunshine and rainbows. And we. We dated for eight months, and then I found the messages, and then that was like, it. But, like, there was never really anything bad about our relationship. There's so much. Like, we have so much love for each other. And even I've. I've spoken to him twice since I found the messages. In the first one, he was like, I'm checking myself into therapy. I really need help. Like, this is really bad that I'm just living like this. And now I know I have a problem because I've hurt you and I, like, hurt the people that I love. And I didn't even know I had a problem. But now that I'm speaking about it, I know that, like, there's a plan and, like, a path forward for me to get through all this. I'm. I'M kind of at a point where I really am just going back and forth. Okay, well, he's like my person, and we love each other so much, and we have so much fun together, and I can't see myself really with anyone else. And it's been about two months since all. Since, like, the initial breakup, so it's only been two months.
- [49:08]
Caller - Emily
But.
- [49:08]
Caller - Chelsea
And how long.
- [49:09]
Nick Viall
How long did you date before? How long did you date?
- [49:11]
Caller - Chelsea
Eight months.
- [49:11]
Caller - Emily
Okay.
- [49:12]
Nick Viall
So it's all. It's all just new.
- [49:14]
Caller - Chelsea
So I'm kind of at a point where I kind of am feeling like I don't know what to do, whether it's to see if, like, maybe the therapy can help him. And, like, you know, he's never addressed these issues before, but it's like some dark, heavy shit.
- [49:30]
Nick Viall
Like, it's the dark stuff I can only. I can only imagine and just trying to imagine what it could be. I have a ton of empathy for him, and it sounds like, yeah. And I'm also, like, grateful that he has acknowledged that he just needs to do some. And him doing that will probably save him in a lot of meaningful ways. So I am grateful that he is open to that and willing to do that. The fact that he's doing that is, I'm sure, encouraging for you to see him do that, and I'm sure to whatever apart, like you said, who loves him and cares about him as a person feels like that's a pathway for you for forgiveness. And I imagine that you're thinking, okay, if he stays the course there and does the work, that the challenge you're having right now, I assume, let me know if I'm wrong, that inside you know that the catching him messaging another man and whatever happened there to cause you to break up, you now know that you are capable of forgiving him and you are capable of letting that go. You have processed that. You have gotten the necessary information from him that help explain it to the extent of you being like, you know, that sucks. That hurt me. But, like, I can. I can process that. I can forgive it, I can move on, but I just can't have it happen again. And I don't want to be lied to, and I don't want to live in confusion territory, and I don't want to be looking over my shoulder wondering if you're doing it again. And the fact, you know, and there's this path for you to, like, be with him, assuming he continues to do the work, you know, and that's very enticing for someone who cares about someone the way you seem to care about him, you know, but, like, you know, you're not engaged. You're not married. You don't have kids together. You. You don't have. You're not even together. My advice to you would be, you know, let it play out. You know, it's like you have no reason to have to be with him in this moment other than you want to, which makes sense. You know, there's no. Let's say this happened after you just got pregnant. You're three months pregnant. He's the father. You check the phone, you find this. It's devastating. And you're like, oh, my God, I'm carrying this baby.
- [51:46]
Caller - Chelsea
Ah.
- [51:46]
Nick Viall
What do I do? Like, say you were married. Let's say you were even engaged. You were like, maybe it wasn't as heavy as, like, being, you know, a mom, but you had done nine months of wedding planning. You had spent tens of thousands of dollars. And even then, like, I would. You could definitely, you know, the most pragmatic answer would be, like, maybe just wait. But it would be at least understandable at that point for you to want to be, like. To muscle it through, to take that risk based off of the fact that, like, at least I'm not. I'm not crazy. It's still risky. But he is in therapy. He has addressed this. I know he's not a monster. I know he's not just some, like, you know, psychopath narcissist who doesn't care about my feelings and cheated on me, and I can't trust him. Like, he is a human being who's dealt with some terrible tragedy. I have empathy for him. I can forgive him. There's a path forward. Even then, like, it would be like, okay, it kind of makes some sense. But you have. None of. You have no commitment to him other than your heart is a little, you know, drawn to him. So just let him do the work. You know, if he really is your person, let him do the work. Let him heal. Give him some time. You know, it seems like right now he's going through a lot, and trying to make a relationship with you might be, like, more than he can handle right now, even though he might say he really wants it. And also, getting back together with you will be a distraction for him for the work he needs to do. And not having you will probably keep him motivated. You know, staying the course of where you are now will give you a lot more clarity in the next six
- [53:17]
Caller - Chelsea
to 12 months, because then my. My fear with that is that I'm going to, like, get out there and try to go on dates or something. And it's just, like, not gonna be him. Like, I'm not gonna be one minute.
- [53:28]
Nick Viall
There you go. Well, again, I said, like, that will give you.
- [53:31]
Caller - Chelsea
I'm not going to be laughing so hard. I'm crying, and then it's going to be like, oh, but I miss him. But then do you think I'm. I'm just going to be, like, settling? Because I'm like, oh, well, I tried all these other people.
- [53:43]
Nick Viall
I don't.
- [53:43]
Caller - Chelsea
Let me just, I don't know, go back to the one that I'm comfy with.
- [53:47]
Nick Viall
I don't know.
- [53:47]
Caller - Chelsea
Because I'm not having fun with these other ones.
- [53:50]
Nick Viall
You have to be open to, you know, that Will. That's kind of the clarity I'm talking about. I can't answer that today. I don't know. No doubt that right now, because of how you feel about him and the intensity of your feelings, dating will be difficult. Usually when we're dating with a little bit of sadness and heartbreak and when our heart's somewhere else, then, yeah, it's like, usually dating is just more like an opportunity to compare the people who are not the person I want to be with. You know, time heals and, like, you, you know, and. But also, like, meeting the right person might makes you forget about someone that you thought you could never forget about.
- [54:25]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [54:25]
Nick Viall
So you don't really know. But also, like, yeah, if you, you know, go on, you know, let's say you go on 30 dates this year. And also it's like, you're over 30, which is entirely possible that you could meet 30 men that you're just not that excited about. And he. And then this guy could be, you know, doing the work. And that will give you more. Like, at that point, it might be like, yeah, listen, like, I. He really is special, at least to me. And we really have something that I truly haven't found with 30 other guys that I've dated. You know, not that. And not that you should. You know, dating 30 guys is a reason to, like, at 27, to be, like, to settle. Just because he had 30 bad dates, you tell him, no, you're like, I can't date you right now. You got to work on yourself. And he's like, I understand. I'm sad, but I understand. But you know what? I'm still doing the work. And you guys don't real really speak for six to 12 months. You know, maybe you check in, but you're not really in each other's lives. Wouldn't you feel a lot better about the possibility of considering another go with him a year and a half from now, knowing that, like, you really haven't been in his life, but he's still been consistent with this therapy? He's been consistent with doing the work and trying to understand and. And heal his past traumas. Wouldn't that make you feel better about, like, the possibility of an. A second chance having more success than, like, trying to do that today, knowing that he's still very much not healed? And while I'm sure he wants to get better, I'm sure part of his motivation right now is to show you that he is, you know, to prove to you why he. You should get back together with him.
- [55:47]
Caller - Chelsea
Him, definitely.
- [55:48]
Caller - Emily
So.
- [55:49]
Caller - Stacy
Yeah.
- [55:49]
Caller - Chelsea
Do you think that looks like more like us? Not like you said, like, not speaking at all or me reaching out to him and saying, like, I'm. I. Because the way that we left kind of like you. The way that we, like, left things is kind of like, don't. Like, he kind of doesn't have the right to reach out to me, but I have, like, the right to reach out to him. And that's kind of how we left things. Like, if I feel the need to or the one to talk to him, call him, text him, whatever it is, go see him, I imagine.
- [56:20]
Nick Viall
Yeah, well, that's.
- [56:21]
Caller - Chelsea
I can do that.
- [56:22]
Caller - Emily
But yeah.
- [56:23]
Nick Viall
And that's probably him giving you a sense of security and power and control that he recognizes maybe you lost when you caught him doing that. It would be easier long term for both of you, and it would be more authentic if you could do it, be better for you long term. It just would. It would give you the clarity because if you keep in touch with him, it'll, you know, it'll make dating harder one, because he will definitely be more in the back of your mind. It will make it harder for him to, like, know why he's really doing the work. Is he doing it for himself or is he doing it to continue to prove you? And then, like, even though you check in on him every two to three weeks or a month, like, there's always an update he can give you about the work he's doing. And that makes. And that makes it a little. It makes a little inauthentic and he. Whether.
- [57:06]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah, like a little performative.
- [57:08]
Nick Viall
Not. And not even intentionally. Like, I mean, we want to prove to people that we care about, especially ones that we hurt, that we're doing the work. I don't even know if performative is the right word. It's not even insincere. It's very sincere. It's just like. It's not directed. It's not. Where the motivation comes from, I think is unclear. And that's even challenging for the, like. I literally use the same analogy for the caller before. Applies a little bit less here. The first time I went on the Bachelor, I had genuine feelings, but I was confused about what was causing those genuine feelings because, like, is it because I'm in this competitive, controlled atmosphere that makes people feel things, or do I just like her? And it was hard for me to know the difference. Even though I was aware of the two choices, I literally couldn't know. This kind of applies here, where it's just like, the more you guys stay in each other's lives, the more you all will influence each other's decisions, whether you mean to or not. And right now, I am assuming you want him to do this for himself so that ultimately, if you do choose to be with him, he can be a good partner for you. If he's only doing it for you, then it's. It's not. It's not inauthentic. It will. It will have a less. It will have less of a chance of sticking. He has to lose you completely and still want to be the best version of himself. He has to understand that his choices cost. Cost him and it potentially costed you, but he doesn't want it to cost him anyone else. And so he still wants to do the work, and he has to do the work not knowing who he can be that better person for and still want to do it. And it's a lot more authentic in that moment.
- [58:42]
Caller - Chelsea
I think I need to mentally, like, break up with him because I'm struggling to where I'm. I keep telling myself, okay, I need to move on, I need to move on. But then there's that little thing in the back of my, like, mind that says, well, I just have to wait a year and then it'll be fine. And so I need to. I think I need to tell myself, I don't know if you have any advice for that kind of situation, because I. I can, like, see like, maybe a light in a year from now, and I feel like I just have my eyes on that instead of, like, moving on in the present moment. Yeah, I've also been just going back and forth in my head on whether I should stick it out, wait, or just. Just be fully done, block them on everything, and just like, Never look back. And I think I need to, like, commit myself to one path forward so that I'm not, like, playing this back and forth all the time. Yeah.
- [59:32]
Nick Viall
I mean, you. You know yourself, so that's probably the right answer. I don't know if you have to block them, but that's entirely up to. If that's to help you control your desire to, like, check his stuff. And. But yeah, listen, I just think, like, objectively that would. That's probably the smartest and healthiest choice is to right now move on. And listen, it doesn't have to be so black and white. You can be like, you know, you said you're 25, right. You know, so, like, you're obviously very young. And, like, all you can do right now is just recognize that, like, you. You don't know what's in front of you. You don't know what next year is going to look like. You don't know what two years are going to look like. If I'm in your shoes, I'm making choices that are. That are not limiting future possibilities.
- [60:19]
Caller - Chelsea
There's one more, like, little piece of the puzzle he's moving.
- [60:24]
Nick Viall
And that means what to you?
- [60:26]
Caller - Chelsea
It means, like, I think it's going to help me. But he. So he's moving for work and, you know, he told his boss certain things. He didn't tell him, like, a full story, but his boss basically said if you need to stay to get your girl, like, you could stay. Because he does a remote job. And they kind of wanted him to come back on site.
- [60:46]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [60:47]
Caller - Chelsea
And his boss said he could stay. And he. He told me, he was like, I will stay if, like, yeah, basically. Say the word. Say the word and I'll stay. And I was like, I don't think.
- [60:57]
Nick Viall
Listen, I. I don't. I don't fault him because I'm sure he's in kind of a very. A desperation mode a little bit. But, yeah, like, you don't want him. You don't want. That's also. And I'm not saying he's doing this intentionally, but it's like a power dynamic move. All of a sudden, he stays for you. And now the score's a little even. It's like right now you caught him doing this thing and you got mad and you got hurt and you called him out, and now you are in control. Hey, it's like, I can call you. You can't call me. You're calling the shots. No, I don't think you should take advantage of that. And I don't think you should stay in this dynamic just because you have all this power and you're this relationship. But the moment you like, hey, I stayed for you. It's just like, there's a feeling of, he did this for me. And again, I just. I wonder if that's going to affect his willingness to really keep doing the work. The most selfless thing you could probably do for him is tell him no and see if it's. If he's still committed to being the best version of himself without having you in his life, knowing that there's going to be. There's getting you back as part of his motivation, at least in the short term. But I'm sure he wants to be a better version of himself. We need those motivations in our life. You know, we need to be motivated. But he has to find it. He has to do it truly, without any guarantees. Yeah. I think you have to say no. And you will find your way back to each other. If it's not the same as if it's meant to be, but you don't want him. If it wouldn't happen organically in a
- [62:28]
Caller - Chelsea
way, I don't know, do you think I should, like, reach out to him and be like, I am done, or just.
- [62:34]
Nick Viall
Is he waiting on an answer?
- [62:35]
Caller - Chelsea
Leave it. Leave it. No, not really. I. I think he. We kind of left things. I was like, I don't know if I'll ever see you again.
- [62:42]
Nick Viall
So I would just leave it alone.
- [62:44]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [62:44]
Caller - Emily
If I.
- [62:44]
Nick Viall
If you don't need to reach out to him. Listen, if you're, you know, if you're my daughter, if you're my sister, if you're calling right now, if you said, if you're. Tell me what to do. You know, obviously I want you to make this choice for yourself. But, yes, my option for you would be to mentally move on, say goodbye to him internally, into yourself. Go live your life. You can keep a door, a window open for him, you know, emotionally, but you have to let it go. And you can be open to the possibility that something might happen. But, like, you can't. This is not like I'm taking a break for you, you know, a year with him.
- [63:23]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah, go.
- [63:24]
Nick Viall
Go live your life. Maybe it'll happen.
- [63:27]
Caller - Chelsea
I guess I know what to do now. I've been struggling.
- [63:32]
Nick Viall
It's tough.
- [63:33]
Caller - Emily
Yeah.
- [63:33]
Nick Viall
Listen, you miss him. You like them, you care about them. You're also. You probably see, you know, again, seeing him doing the work is encouraging. It also makes whatever pain he caused by catching it feel less painful. To know that he is sorry and he's really doing something about it. And that makes, you know, the whatever part, when we catch someone doing something that hurts us, there's a level of, like, it makes us feel inadequate. It makes us feel less than. It makes us feel not enough. And seeing him be sorry and doing the work kind of eliminates that. So it's kind of healing for you to see him acknowledge that. So it all makes sense. It's definitely difficult, you know, like, I'm a sex addict, and I am a porn addict. I don't know if he really knows. Has he been going around having just copious amounts of sex with people unprotected or.
- [64:20]
Caller - Chelsea
No, his. He. He spoke to a therapist, and they basically said, like, you're not. Because they were trying to get down to, like, the root of what caused him to go and seek out men. And he never. He never met up with the guy that he was. He was texting one guy while we were together, and it lasted for three days. He texted him for three days, and then he blocked him, and he never actually met up with him. He was texting him. He basically, like, snapped out of his little moment and was like, what am I doing? And blocked him. And his therapy, he talked to, like, a few different therapists, and they basically said, like, you kind of have. You, like, you have a sex addiction, and we're gonna, like, explore where that came from. And then he unpacked and remembered things from, like, second grade that he had always just put away and blocked from his memory. But, yeah, long story short, they told him he has a sex addiction type of diagnosis.
- [65:22]
Nick Viall
Gotcha. I think he has more work to do.
- [65:25]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah, he definitely does. Yeah, he definitely.
- [65:28]
Nick Viall
He has some stuff to figure out. I think he's. I think his journey is just beginning to kind of figure out who he is. I mean, obviously, I'm not. Neither of us would have been in his therapy sessions. I. It would make. It would make sense that he is trying to find quick answers to explain why he feels, how he feels about himself on the inside. And sometimes those quick answers might not be as. As honest as what the truth is, and it might just take some time for him to really, you know, be comfortable with that.
- [65:57]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [65:58]
Nick Viall
And then there's probably a lot of trauma and pain behind it, but it just. It's just going to take some time for him to figure that out.
- [66:03]
Caller - Chelsea
And he does say, like, so I've talked to him twice, and he will. He'll. He'll be like, I'm not gonna pretend I'm fixed. He's like, I have a long way to go, and I might be, you know, talking to a therapist forever just to make sure the upkeep stays present.
- [66:19]
Nick Viall
But I got therapy after this, you know, so it's good for all of us to do the maintenance. So listen, it's. It's a difficult situation to help you move forward. Tell yourself that you are grateful for how you've been able to get this far with him, which is to. It sucks that he hurt you, but, like, you can now at least say goodbye or you have you got some closure out of this. You know, you don't have to feel totally. It's just like how so many people feel when this type of stuff happens to them is just, like, completely inadequate and heartbroken and feeling like they're not enough. You got some answers, and you're kind of. You can be at peace with that, and you can, like, you can put a pause on this and kind of say goodbye, at least for now, with a really high opinion of him and a lot of love and, you know, which is much better than hating him. And it's much better than, like, feeling angry and having to process that anger and pain. So you're already kind of a few steps ahead in your kind of healing process of moving forward. And again, this. You never know. You never know. But right now, it's probably best for you guys to kind of go your separate ways.
- [67:23]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [67:23]
Nick Viall
And to help yourself out is don't be talking about this. Don't ruminate about this with friends. Updates on how you feel about him and those, like, what if Conversations. It's natural to want to have them, but try to limit yourself from having them. Them over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Both with yourself.
- [67:42]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah.
- [67:42]
Nick Viall
And with friends, because that just keeps you stuck.
- [67:44]
Caller - Chelsea
I've definitely been talking about my feelings a lot with my friends, but I can relax in that category.
- [67:52]
Nick Viall
It's natural. But at some point, you just have to just say, you know, I've worked through them. I've talked with. About them with friends, with therapists, with myself. I know how I feel most. Like, it's sad talking about it with people. I mean, you literally kind of have to tell yourself this. Like, you have to acknowledge that you are doing this thing that you could, if you wanted to stop doing it, doing, which is to obsessively ruminate over something that you just, like, you miss. And when we. And that's the easiest way to keep things close to us. The things that we can't have is to at least think about them and talk about them. Because at least that's some version of the thing that we miss the most, which is a relationship with him. So you just have to actively recognize that you're doing it and try to stop it, which, you know, it's difficult, it takes practice, but you can do it.
- [68:35]
Caller - Chelsea
I know I can do it. I've been through a similar thing in a past relationship. So I'm like, I know I can do it. I've been here before.
- [68:45]
Nick Viall
All right, well, that helps. That helps. You know. Yeah, just general heartbreak. The first time when it happens, it sucks because you don't have a roadmap of how to get over your first heartbreak. But the second time you have heartbreak, the heartbreak is just as painful. But you have the knowledge that this too shall pass. And that helps. And it's true.
- [69:06]
Caller - Chelsea
My therapist says, well, after you and the first guy broke up, he was like, it's three years later now. Do you ever think about him? And I'm like, nope, not even a little bit. Hopefully it'll be like that again one day.
- [69:19]
Nick Viall
If you don't get back together, it certainly will. He will be a distant memory in 10 years.
- [69:23]
Caller - Chelsea
Yeah. Thank you so much.
- [69:25]
Nick Viall
All right, thanks for the call. Keep us posted on what happens.
- [69:29]
Caller - Chelsea
Okay? I will. All right, thank you.
- [69:31]
Nick Viall
All right, bye.
- [69:32]
Caller - Emily
Bye.
- [69:32]
Nick Viall
Bye.
- [69:34]
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- [72:49]
Caller - Emily
Hi, my name is Emily. I'm 34 and my question is, should I kick my fiance's sister out of my bridal party?
- [72:57]
Nick Viall
Okay, well, how did she get into your bridal party in the first place.
- [73:01]
Caller - Emily
Well, here's the thing. So I haven't done anything official with my bridal party, but I have spoken to his other sisters and I kind of committed to them that I would have her in just so that it would be kind all, you know, not excluding someone. So I'm kind of backtracking on that.
- [73:19]
Nick Viall
Why do you, why do you not want her in there? What does the relationship look like?
- [73:25]
Caller - Emily
Well, there's not much of a relationship there. I would love to have her if we did have a relationship. Yeah, I think it's a huge deal to have the people that I love standing up there with me. And honestly, I'm pretty hurt by her actions, the way that she's treated me in our relationship activities this point.
- [73:43]
Nick Viall
So you, you're, you're hurt by her and you care about her or so you, you like her, you care about her?
- [73:48]
Caller - Emily
I would love a relationship. So we, we did room together at the family beach trip last year.
- [73:55]
Nick Viall
Is that, is that where all the drama started?
- [73:58]
Caller - Emily
No, we had a great time.
- [73:59]
Nick Viall
Okay.
- [74:00]
Caller - Emily
We had a great time. It's just a weird situation. So I think.
- [74:04]
Nick Viall
When did it start? Like, what happened?
- [74:06]
Caller - Emily
When I met my fiance's family, I immediately clicked with all of them. Okay. Very close with his parents, his sisters, his in laws, the brothers in law. And we're hanging out. We're like, I'm texting his sisters all the time. They've just really made an effort to get to know me. And they, we enjoy each other's company. But a lot of the times that we are spending time together, she declines to attend. And so we haven't really. And it's not just stuff that, like, I'm involved in.
- [74:36]
Nick Viall
So she's just excludes herself?
- [74:39]
Caller - Emily
Yes, pretty much. I know it's. It's been hurtful to her sisters as well. Like, she would have plans with her boyfriend to go to dinner on one of their birthdays. You can go to dinner any day of the week. You know, it would. That would hurt someone's feelings to do that. So I know it's. I don't think it's a personal thing, however, we just have not been able to.
- [75:02]
Nick Viall
So is that your overall biggest frustration with her is her. What feels like a lack of effort to, like, connect with you?
- [75:10]
Caller - Emily
No. That's hard. But what hurt me was that she chose not to attend our engagement party. Okay.
- [75:20]
Nick Viall
Because she had another dinner.
- [75:22]
Caller - Emily
Well, I believe it's because she's not
- [75:25]
Nick Viall
engaged herself, but that's a totally a guess on your part.
- [75:31]
Caller - Emily
I didn't believe the excuse that was given.
- [75:33]
Nick Viall
Sure.
- [75:34]
Caller - Emily
Post.
- [75:34]
Nick Viall
You know, you're probably right. You might not be right. It doesn't really matter. What we do know for sure is that she didn't feel like going.
- [75:45]
Caller - Emily
Right.
- [75:47]
Nick Viall
And the fact that she centered her feelings on your day is what pisses you off.
- [75:52]
Caller - Emily
Well, and what followed that? Also, she did congratulate her. Her brother. She never congratulated me, and. Which is okay. So then the next time I saw her, I thought that she would be completely fake and just be like, congratulations. You know, I was so sick. I'm so sorry. But what she actually did was she didn't acknowledge my presence in the room. Like, she didn't ask to see my ring. She never said, congratulations, like, you're becoming my sister. You're marrying my brother. She just didn't acknowledge. And so to me, that was. I mean, she snubbed me. It was very hurtful. Okay.
- [76:25]
Nick Viall
What else?
- [76:26]
Caller - Emily
Well, when I, you know, asked, I kind of confronted her about it that night, and she just. She wasn't willing to.
- [76:35]
Nick Viall
Curious.
- [76:35]
Caller - Emily
She just said, I've had a really hard week. Yeah, I've had a really hard week. Oh, it has nothing to do with you. I love you.
- [76:40]
Nick Viall
What else?
- [76:41]
Caller - Emily
I don't think she even wants to be in my wedding. She probably doesn't even want to come to my bachelorette party. I have no idea. But, yeah, I think maybe it's. Well, I don't want to make assumptions, but that's. No, that's pretty much it.
- [76:54]
Nick Viall
That's the gist. Okay. You want my answer?
- [76:57]
Caller - Emily
Yeah.
- [76:57]
Nick Viall
What do you think my answer is?
- [76:59]
Caller - Emily
Don't.
- [77:00]
Nick Viall
Don't what?
- [77:01]
Caller - Emily
Don't have her. Don't have her.
- [77:03]
Nick Viall
No.
- [77:04]
Caller - Emily
No.
- [77:05]
Nick Viall
I think you should have her in your party.
- [77:07]
Caller - Emily
Yeah.
- [77:08]
Nick Viall
Here's why. Because what I'm hearing from you and all this, the information is that not having her, the reason why you're doing it, is you're hoping it will teach her a lesson, and you're hoping the excluding her, it doesn't feel to you like she cares, and that hurts, and that sucks. And you're trying to get her to care, and you kind of want to get a reaction. I think that's deep down. And I don't think you should risk your wedding day to teach someone a lesson and try to shake them up or wake them up. And I just. As someone who, you know, had a wedding, and I'm not. I'm not a pro. I only did it once. You know, we got there on Wednesday night. We're Staying at her sister's house. We're spending some time with her sister. And on Thursday we, you know, I was hoping to spend some time with my friends and also the NFL draft was happening and so I was like kind of hoping that Natalie would allow me to still participate in that. But she was like, oh, maybe like I'll just go to my family's house and you can hang out with your families. I was like, we are not. The only. We're not. The only thing we're doing or not doing is we're not separating this weekend and we're doing everything together. We are being a couple. And like, she was like, oh my God. Yeah. And. But we, it was our wedding. We prioritized each other. That's all that mattered to us. We hoped that our guests had fun, they had a great time, but our focus was each other. And I think at the end of the day, you and your, your fiance's focus should be each other. You're not going to give a shit who is or isn't in your wedding party. That is not going to make or break your wedding. It's just not. It's just that you're not. I don't care if down. If 10 years from now you're like, oh, that person is in a wedding photos who I'm not really close with. No one gives a shit. You know what I'm saying? It's just a story. What you don't want is to have your sister in law be the center of your emotional energy on your wedding weekend. And if you do this, you have run the risk. If you simply just accept that, like I'm just gonna have her in my wedding party because I have all his sisters in my wedding party. Honestly, she may or may. She might not even come to her goddamn wedding. And at the end of the day, I don't give a. I don't care. It is not going to affect my weekend. It's just not. It. You can make it a big deal. You can be like, oh my God, the seating chart or I don't know, like, you can make it a big deal if you want to. It is, but it's just not. And you run the risk of caring about a bunch of shit that has nothing to do with your wedding weekend. Over, you know, over, over. This, this is not like a friend because this is a sister in law. Again, you know, like, I'm only saying this based off the information you gave me. You are having other sisters in there. You know, it's so. It's like a, it's a, it's a wedding party that's family centered and things like that. So excluding her would be obvious and it would be a big deal and people would be talking about it. It would just be unnecessary drama.
- [80:01]
Caller - Emily
I hear that. Well, what I want to debate is it's, it's, I promise you it's not to teach her a lesson. And I think my, my sister, my
- [80:10]
Nick Viall
friends prove it to me. What do you mean? Because in everything you said says the opposite.
- [80:14]
Caller - Emily
I think the, the people that are encouraging me not to, I think maybe for them it would teach her a lesson. For me, I feel that she genuinely isn't happy for me and her brother. And I feel that. But if I even ask her and then she rejects me, that is if I'm hurt. And I think she's going to hurt me further.
- [80:36]
Nick Viall
That's your ego. You got fine. But you can get over that. You really can. You can choose to just say, I'm only asking her to keep the peace. I don't, honestly, don't even think she's going to say yes. She might not even come. That's not why you're making the decision. You're making the decision to include her not because you want her, but because, like, it's for the greater good. It's because overall you are close with the family and you do want some of his sisters in it and those sisters are meaningful to you. And you're just doing it to like, eliminate the drama. Because you're gonna choose not to care. Whatever the outcome is, whatever decision is as unpredictable as she is, you're just gonna accept that she's unpredictable, but like, her choices don't impact your wedding. His sister is not the center of your engagement or your wedding. But you are choosing to make her right now and you gotta let that go. So, like, whatever happens, my biggest advice to you is just let this go. To not try to be right. To like, not keep talking about it with your fiance, to, you know, not keep talking about it with me or your therapist or his sisters. To just accept that she is at a stage of life where she probably isn't happy with how things are going. But like, it's not your job to fix her. She's going to figure her out. You can certainly offer her advice if she comes to you and asks for advice, but you are making it more of your problem than you need to.
- [82:01]
Caller - Emily
You're right. I mean, I just. It feels like a privilege. It feels like a big deal. But I think you're Right. If the goal is peace and not to bring. I. And then I guess I would have to ask one of my sisters. I was. That I wasn't sure, you know, like, have more.
- [82:19]
Nick Viall
I don't know. Who cares? It's just the wedding party. No one cares.
- [82:23]
Caller - Emily
It feels like a huge deal, but maybe it's not.
- [82:26]
Nick Viall
It's not your wedding, huge deal. How. How connected you feel to your fiance and future husband is the only thing that matters. How much of that weekend you can focus on who you are marrying and why you are marrying them and how good you feel about that connection Matter matters. His sister, who is unhappy with herself right now, should not be the focus of your wedding. You should literally not be thinking about her. You should literally not care.
- [82:57]
Caller - Emily
I'm very sensitive, so I get my feelings hurt. And maybe. Maybe because I go back and forth. So my initial thing was, yes, I'm going to have her. And then my sister and my friends are like, why the hell would she get that privilege if she treats you like she doesn't care about you at all and she probably doesn't want to be in your wedding. And so. And then I'll be like, you're right, I'm not. And then I go back and I'm like, no, I will. And I'm like, no, I'm not. And I think it is probably more of my ego. I don't think it's like, to teach her a lesson. I think it's how she makes me feel.
- [83:31]
Nick Viall
I mean, teach her less. I just. Yeah, I mean, it's.
- [83:34]
Caller - Stacy
I really.
- [83:35]
Caller - Emily
I'm not a vindictive person.
- [83:36]
Nick Viall
I don't mean it like vindictive, like teach her a lesson. I just mean. And it's just. You definitely have an expectation of a reaction that you hope to get if you tell her no. That's another thing that you run the risk of. You're worrying about asking her, telling you no, and how that's going to make you feel. What happens when you. If you tell her no and she's like, yeah, okay, or you don't ask her and she doesn't care, that's going to really make you feel powerless.
- [84:06]
Caller - Emily
Yeah, I don't really. I'm like, I don't really want to start a lifelong beef.
- [84:10]
Nick Viall
Which is kind of my point. It's just like, she probably would just
- [84:14]
Caller - Emily
never even address it with me. He said, she probably just wouldn't even would acknowledge that you didn't.
- [84:19]
Nick Viall
My advice, whatever you decide is the path of least resistance. That's all I'M saying is to not make something that's ultimately not a big deal a big deal. And you are caring a lot about something the person on the other side doesn't. And that gives her an immense amount of power in this situation. And it makes you feel want to invest more emotionally energy into it. It's just like human nature in any relationship we have whatever, you know, you have a relationship with this sister, maybe not a good one, but there is a relationship. Most relationships are defined on how much both parties care about that relationship. And when a relationship is kind of off, it's usually off because one person feels like they care more than the other. And it's our instinct sometimes to make up for the lack of consideration that's coming on the other side, which sometimes is necessary. Like, I don't know, some, you know, I hope that you and your fiance have a very wonderful and beautiful marriage. But like there may period in your marriage where you might have to pick up the slack and vice versa. And because you are married, that's part of like the long term ways of how marriages work out. It's not sustainable for one person to be picking up the slack over the other person. But there might be periods where you look back and be like, yeah, you know, one partner has to say thank you to the other because they really were picking up some slack. So you're you. This is, there's an equilibrium. It's off with you guys. She cares less than you, you care more. You want this relationship with her. You would like it to be nice, if nothing else civil. And you don't even know if she gives a shit about that. And it makes you, it makes you internally care more. It makes you invest more, think about it more.
- [85:50]
Caller - Emily
It does. And the most recent piece of advice that I got was just sit down with her and tell her like, I would like you to be, you know, in my bridal party. This is how I'm feeling about our relationship. This is what I would like. And are you open to that? I'm like, it might work.
- [86:08]
Nick Viall
I don't even know if you should do that. I think you should ask her if she wants to or not without any expectations. Do you want to be in my wedding party? Sure. Well, here are all the rules.
- [86:19]
Caller - Emily
Okay. The less emotional energy route, I am giving it a lot of.
- [86:25]
Nick Viall
Listen, all I'm saying, you will increase the chances that your wedding is everything you want it to be. The more you just simply care about your connection with your fiance. And the more you care about everything else, the more you're increasing your chances are less focused on your connection with your fiance. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters. Not the, not the DJ or the flowers or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And listen, I'm glad that our wedding was awesome, you know, and it, you know, but like, it was awesome because, like, we were connected. And that made everything else a story because truly, if you guys feel connected that way, weekend, it won't matter if it rains or if it pours or if there was drama with someone else. It won't matter if there's someone got in a big fight. It won't matter if some caterer fucked up, because you will be like, we, me and him, we felt connected and we had a great wedding. And what you wouldn't believe this crazy thing that happened at my wedding. What a great story.
- [87:18]
Caller - Emily
I love that.
- [87:19]
Nick Viall
But if you don't feel connected, if you do feel off, if you center most of your energy on the outside drama, then it will steal away from that connection you're supposed to make with your husband over the weekend, and it will make those dramatic moments feel like it ruined your wedding weekend. And it will only come down to your perspective.
- [87:39]
Caller - Emily
I agree. I agree. I don't think I thought that was what your answer was going to be, but I like it.
- [87:45]
Nick Viall
The logic is, my wedding is important, but my wedding party is far less important. And how that looks, whether they're are. I've, you know, people have no, like Natalie and I, like, you know, we ultimately had a fairly large wedding parties, but no one stood up at our wedding. It was just us. So wedding party sat down. And it was mostly because I had all these friends that I wanted in my wedding party. And I made that decision based off the fact that, like, at stages in my adult life, they were the closest men in my lives. And I had got married at those, at those stages of my life, those. They probably would have been my best men. And so, like, that's how I made that decision. And then Natalie made her decision off of my decision. And then literally the day of the wedding, you know, because I have a bunch of brothers who, like, I, I didn't, you know, I was like, well, I'm not. I'm gonna have my friends and just not have my family. And then, like, my brothers are in my groomsmen photo. That's how much it just doesn't matter. I was literally making decisions the day off because it, like to keep the peace. I didn't care. It was just like, great. They're my brothers are in the photo. And none of the people who are in our wedding party stood up. It was just, you know, they just sat down. They walked down the aisle. Some of them walked down the aisle, Some of them didn't. None of them stood up. It doesn't matter. Who cares? You know, it's just like. It's fluff.
- [88:58]
Caller - Emily
I can see that. Yeah. No, no, I agree. I think that makes it easy. I need to just also just make a decision and go with it and just stop giving it so much energy.
- [89:09]
Nick Viall
And the trick to make when you make this decision is to not think about what you hope to feel after that decision or what your expectations are of how she's going to react. You don't know how they react. It doesn't really matter. Do you want me in my party? Great. I would love to you for, you know, I'm having all the sisters in my wedding party. I'd love for you to be there. I just need to know whether you can commit to X, Y, or Z. And I would keep those requirements very low. Like, showing up for my wedding, like, honestly would be it.
- [89:41]
Caller - Emily
Okay. You know about it.
- [89:43]
Nick Viall
And, like, you know, get buying the dress, you know, that's, you know, of whatever the dress code is. And you can say, listen. And not in a condescending, confrontational way. You can also give her the out. You can say listen. I also, like, if you. If you don't want to for any reason, like, you know, that's also totally okay.
- [90:04]
Caller - Stacy
Okay.
- [90:04]
Nick Viall
I'd love for you to be there, but, like, no expectations. I'm chill either way. See, what she says, it just goes
- [90:11]
Caller - Emily
so against my nature. Like, I like to have everything out in the open. I like, I. I want it to. I want to, like, get to the bottom of this. That's what I want. But that's not in my control.
- [90:20]
Nick Viall
So a lot of things in our nature are not what's best for us. You know, sometimes going against that is growth, and it's emotional maturity, and it's, you know, it's helping you, helping your happiness long term. You get to choose what to care about. And right now I feel like you're caring about some, like, the wrong thing.
- [90:40]
Caller - Emily
Okay.
- [90:41]
Nick Viall
And the last thing you want is to have this sister actually feel like it ruined your wedding. And she can, but it will mostly be based off of how much energy you put into this.
- [90:52]
Caller - Emily
No, I. I like what you said.
- [90:54]
Nick Viall
No one's actually. No one's ever. No one's ever actually had their wedding ruined by a person, they had it ruined by their choice to make to prioritize that over just the connection.
- [91:04]
Caller - Emily
Yeah, I like what you said about that. That's the most important part of our weekend, is the connection to each other. And I think that's the easy part. So just do that. Just focus on.
- [91:15]
Nick Viall
You'll have plenty of opportunities to mend fences with the sister. I don't think you should use your wedding to do it.
- [91:24]
Caller - Emily
I don't know that the conversation will really happen if there's not some.
- [91:27]
Nick Viall
I mean, you know, the good things. Dick, you're marrying him. They're related. They're brother and sister. This isn't some friend that you have to worry about, just like, you know, fading away. For better or worse, you are stuck with this sister, you know, and if this marriage goes away, I assume you hope it is, which is forever, you'll have plenty of opportunities to butt heads with this sister and have the talks and pull her aside at whatever, family holiday, whatever, and give her, you know, and write a letter, you know, and tell her how you. You know, you'll have some. You have unlimited chances to mend fences with her. I just don't think your wedding should be the one to be the time to fight that battle. This is the universe. God. However you want, like, trying to. You clearly have a hard time with this. This is something that will serve you well, maybe even in your marriage to let go. That ultimately doesn't matter.
- [92:22]
Caller - Emily
Yeah, that's. That is something I'm working on. Yeah. I give a lot of energy to, you know, unrest in relationships. And that's what this feels are, you know, like, I'm the one who has a lack of peace. I don't know how she feels, but.
- [92:37]
Nick Viall
And that comes from you, though. But that's the thing you really have to understand is you really clearly give so much of your energy and power to people who you care about or you want something from. But, like, you aren't willing to just accept. Accept the now and let things play out. You know, I. I imagine in a lot of aspects of your life, you are. You. You can control, you know, you. You like to be in control. You like things in control. And you're probably very reliable. You're probably a very reliable partner. You're probably a very reliable friend. You. You probably expect reliability with the people that you are allowing your life. And when you don't have that, it, like, throws you off. And you don't have that here. And it's because it, you know, it's the sister you know, it's like, she's in your life not because you've chosen, but because of, like, she was born, and that is hard for you to control.
- [93:29]
Caller - Emily
Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. And now I'm starting to think more and more about it, and I'm, like, maybe admitting to myself a little bit that it is a little bit more of, like, teaching her a lesson, because I don't. I'm hurt. And I'm like, like, if you want to be my bridal party, like, you need to be my sister. You need to care about me. You need to, like, tell me that you're happy I'm gonna be your sister. Yeah. Like, are you happy I'm joining your family and. Right. I don't need that. If Maybe it's just not as big of a deal as I'm making it to be in my head, in my heart.
- [94:02]
Nick Viall
That's right. Yeah.
- [94:03]
Caller - Emily
I mean, let that shit go.
- [94:06]
Nick Viall
You have. You have the rest of your life to mend fences with her.
- [94:10]
Caller - Emily
I'll take your advice.
- [94:12]
Nick Viall
Okay, well, hopefully this was helpful.
- [94:16]
Caller - Emily
Hopefully she accepts or not.
- [94:18]
Nick Viall
Who cares? You're only saying that because if she does it, you know that emotionally, you're gonna have to process that. It's just, who cares to get that
- [94:28]
Caller - Emily
tattooed on my hand?
- [94:30]
Nick Viall
I mean, the answer to who cares is only. Only you. Literally, only you.
- [94:35]
Caller - Stacy
You.
- [94:36]
Nick Viall
And yet when we. When we're. When we care about things that in reality no one else does, we want to. We want to think that everyone cares. Which is why you get the opinion of her other sisters, you know, and certainly they're going to care for you. They're going to, like, give you advice. But what you want them is to care as much as you care. Which is why, like, when we go through heartbreak or disappointment, we rally the troops, you know, it's like, we feel crazy because the thing we care about so much, much the other person doesn't care. That makes us feel crazy because it's like, why do I care so much about something? Someone else should care as much as I do. So then we go around and we're like, can you believe this? Can you believe that? Can you do that? And we're hoping everyone else is like, yeah, no, I can't believe it. They're the crazy one. You're not crazy. You just have to accept that what she is is not where you are in life. And you are expecting her to move like, you move. Even though, like, when you say, oh, well, everyone suspects it's because she's not Engaged yet. And you say that with, like, quite frankly, if I'm just being direct here, a lack of empathy, you know, And I'm a lot like you. Like, I, you know, when I, when I'm not leading with empathy, I'm just more like, deal with it, suck it up. Like, why are you, like, you can't be happy for me? Like, you know, like, you know, I've had to be happy for people that, when I wasn't, like, in that stage of life. And she just needs to deal with it and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the truth is she's just not at this. She's not where you're at. And could she be handling it better? Sure. Would you like to think that you would handle it better if you and her shares? Probably. But you are spending a shit ton of emotional energy simply because someone's at a different stage of life than you and not handling it the way you would like to think you would.
- [96:22]
Caller - Emily
I don't think there's any excuse for completely snubbing someone. I mean, there's no excuse for it. It's not.
- [96:28]
Nick Viall
What do you mean there's no excuse for it? Like, what are you talking about?
- [96:31]
Caller - Emily
I just.
- [96:32]
Nick Viall
You have. No, I have no doubt you have, you have. I'm just saying, like, at some stage in your life, I don't know what it was. You have definitely given yourself excuses to choose yourself. And we live in a time in 2026, which like the entire Internet is telling us to choose yourself, love yourself, choose yourself. You're, you know, make sure you're the number one priority. And that's all true, but like, within that, it allows us to again prioritize ourselves, you know, choose ourselves. And we give ourselves so much fucking grace in ways that we don't give to other people. Of course there's an excuse to, you know, which is she's just not happy right now. And like, you know, with how things are going, if that's the reason and when we're not happy, it's just hard not to be a little, like, to not be a little selfish because it's like, how can you be happy for others when you're not happy with your own life and yada, yada, yada. In a perfect world, I'm sure she would want to be. To be thought of as the friend who's showing up for the people she loves. She will probably someday wake up and look in the mirror and realize that she's probably been a bad friend to people or a bad sister and she's been selfish, and that will make her feel kind of shitty about herself. Yourself. But of course, there's an excuse, you know, like, you say that as if, like, you know, there's an ex.
- [97:52]
Caller - Emily
There's an excuse for not coming to the party. That's fine. There's an excuse for not texting me, but just to, like, be in a room with someone and pretend that they aren't there. But what I did. What did I do?
- [98:03]
Nick Viall
How do you know it's about you? You know, listen, I'm. I get. I'm introverted. I can be aloof. I'm in my head, like, literally, my wife, con. Every day is just like, I need you.
- [98:13]
Caller - Emily
You.
- [98:13]
Nick Viall
Where are you? You're not with us. You know, you're. You know, she, like, will check me, you know, like, it. It's hard for me to do, like, I mean, literally, I have adhd, you know, Like, I don't. I don't. Personally, I try not to use that as an excuse for, like, why I do what I do. And I'm just. I try to own that. But, like, you know, it is just, like, really hard sometimes. Sometimes I'm just checked out. A lot of times I show up to places, events, you know, and, you know, like, also, like, adding to the element that I'm a little bit of a public figure, also adding the fact that I'm tall and I just, like, stand out in a room that I often show up in, rooms where I, I. People have a shit ton of expectations of how I'm supposed to show up to them. And I tell you what, nine times out of ten, I don't meet those expectations.
- [98:58]
Caller - Emily
I'm. I don't want to repeat specifically with the things that have been said to me, but I'm extremely. It's not. It's more than an assumption. I know that that's what it is, is. And I did have her family reach out to me after and tell me, like, you handled yourself really nice, like, really well tonight. You gave a lot of grace. I know that must have been really hard and hurtful the way that she treated you.
- [99:21]
Nick Viall
Yeah, and I'm sure that's true. All I'm simply saying is, again, like, I talk about this all the time on the show, especially when we're talking about reality tv. There's a difference between a reason and an excuse. And you're right. Maybe there's no quote unquote an excuse. Maybe there's just a reason, you know? And all I'm just saying is, like, sometimes the Reason like an excuse. It's like, I don't know, again, like in the court of like, you know, you're just kind of playing judge, jury and executioner with like how you think she should move, you know, and it's just like, even if you being right doesn't bring you any peace or happiness is kind of my point. It doesn't really matter. You know, it's like you can, you know, we could sit here and debate whether is there an excuse? It doesn't matter matter. You know, like she's. This is where she's at. This is what she's doing. If she was a friend, you could choose to be like, you know what? Maybe this friendship has, you know, run its course and maybe that is what it is. But she's not just a friend. She is family. She is the sister of the man that you're going to marry rather than accepting that as. And having that security that she's not going anywhere. You have decided that I need to fix this now before I marry this man, because I need to feel good about, about all of my sisters, you know, and sister in laws before I get married. Because that matters and it doesn't. You're not marrying her, you're marrying him.
- [100:40]
Caller - Emily
Yeah.
- [100:41]
Nick Viall
And you don't need to be like at peace with every single person at every single moment in time.
- [100:45]
Caller - Emily
I think if I can reframe that in my brain that I'm thinking, okay, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing anything as a favor to her. She may or may not want to, but I'm. I would like a good relationship and I would like peace and I would like my wedding to be about my fiance and I. Yeah, but when you make this decision, doing the right thing, doing something for her, just when you
- [101:10]
Nick Viall
make this decision, don't pat yourself on the back for choosing peace.
- [101:14]
Caller - Emily
Why not?
- [101:15]
Nick Viall
Because. Because then you're not. You're. Because then you're doing it to be right and you're not doing it for the peace. And then when the day comes when peace is supposed to matter, it won't feel peaceful. Especially because that gives her more power and control. It makes her actions control how you feel. It makes you feel good about your choice because it makes you feel like you were the bigger person.
- [101:39]
Caller - Emily
That's exactly what it is. I'm either the bigger person or I'm petty. That's.
- [101:44]
Nick Viall
So be the bigger person and not pat yourself on the back for it.
- [101:48]
Caller - Emily
Okay?
- [101:50]
Nick Viall
Be the bigger person and knowing because what you're doing is you're just, you're just setting you and your husband and fiance up for success. That's why you're doing it. You're doing it for your happiness. But if you pat yourself on the back for choosing peace, then you're not doing it for happiness, you're doing it to be right. And that's literally the opposite of do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? And you like being right. That's pretty evident. I like being right. So no judgment, you know, but like it is something you have a hard time letting go. You have a hard time just like not being right or wrong, but you just have facts.
- [102:24]
Caller - Emily
I had this discussion yesterday about something totally different. So it is something I'm working on.
- [102:30]
Nick Viall
Well, if it bleeds into your life that much, it will like also bleed into your marriage. So like, listen, use this as an opportunity to work on yourself so that you can show up better for your marriage. Because like, you know, the alternative is giving the sister in law like an unbelievable of energy and power that she doesn't deserve, probably doesn't want or ask for. And then you're convincing yourself that you're the better person in the story because like, you know, you are, you're handling like these short term situations better in a time where. But, but, but again you have an advantage. You are overall really happy with where you're at in your life.
- [103:12]
Caller - Emily
Yeah, it's the, yeah, it's just, it's the rejection piece that, that I'm working on that it hurts. I feel rejected by her and I feel like I'm putting myself in a position to be rejected again. And that is, that's right now the theme of, you know, what I need to work on in general and how, and I, and noticing how that does affect me in different ways. And I keep.
- [103:32]
Nick Viall
Your marriage is going to require an insane amount of your emotional energy and time. And if you've listened to this show, it's the thing I like if I could just. If one bit of advice I give to people is just like, just recognize that your emotional energy is not limitless and is a tangible thing. There are only so many hours in the day. You only have so much energy. And where you choose to spend that energy definitely greatly matters. It is not. It will affect your choices, your choices will affect your life. It will not. Like, it's not preordained, you know, like, and so that choice is up to you. So like you need to get better as someone who really is kind of needs to be right and when you don't feel right, you go down these rabbit holes and. And you invest your emotional energy that will take away from the emotional energy you need to invest in your marriage. Marriage. And just getting better at that will go a long way to, like, you just generally being happier. So maybe this is the universe giving you an opportunity to start really grounding yourself in that.
- [104:44]
Caller - Emily
Yeah. And I genuinely hope for the best. And so just gonna let my actions portray that and release the rest. And that what happens, happens.
- [104:58]
Nick Viall
Like if you ask her and she says yes and then she literally just ghosts you on your wedding. Doesn't matter. Just doesn't matter. Only if you make it matter. You certainly could wake up and you could be like, oh, my God, it turns out she's an Ibiza. You know, she's on a fucking yacht. She's supposed to be in my wedding. I can't believe she did this. You could call up all her sisters the day of your wedding and be like, can you believe what you did? She did. They could all agree with you. And your fiance could be like, can't believe my sister did this. And you could talk to your parents and you could spend all morning convincing everyone you invited to your wedding that she is just a selfish bitch. But all you would be doing is stealing away from your connecting with your husband over your weekend. It just doesn't matter. And if you choose not to let it matter and you choose not to care, no one will be talking about it. No one will care. People are going to care about what you care on your wedding. So, like, you decide. Just doesn't matter. You don't know what's going to happen on your wedding day. You don't know what the weather's going to be. You don't know if a parent is so sick they can't show up. You don't know. But what you can control is how connected you stay with your fiance on that day and on that weekend.
- [106:14]
Caller - Emily
But I don't get to pat myself on the back.
- [106:17]
Nick Viall
No, because then you're not doing it to be connected. You're doing it to be right. And you like being right.
- [106:22]
Caller - Emily
I'm doing it for growth, you know, I'm working on it.
- [106:26]
Nick Viall
Yeah, well, growth happens in the long run, you know, growth is not like I made the decision. You know, growth is not caring. Growth is making a decision and just letting it happen. It is not patting yourself on the back for the decision that you think is right.
- [106:45]
Caller - Stacy
Right.
- [106:45]
Caller - Emily
Need a little ego death.
- [106:47]
Nick Viall
You're not really learning. You're not. You're not. You're not doing the lesson. If. If the only way you can make this decision is because right. Right now, you called up thinking you would be right to not invite her. And I. You know, and then I gave you my opinion, and you're kind of. You're. You're. You know, you're on board with it. You see what I'm saying? But instead of just accepting it, now you're trying to convince how that would be the right decision. And I mean, Grant, I am right. It is the right decision. But I'm. It's right because you're choosing peace, not. Not being right. Which is why when you're thinking about, okay, if I make the decision, I see the wheels turning your head. You're like, oh, well, how's she gonna react? Is she gonna say yes? Is she gonna say no? She can do all these things. And I'm saying, it doesn't matter. Who cares?
- [107:27]
Caller - Emily
Yeah, well, that was my initial. My initial was, of course. Absolutely. Absolutely, like, of course. And then I have some people that really care about me that are mad about the way that just made me feel, and they are like, it's your day. You do. And they're right. It is my day. But it's a different way of looking at it.
- [107:46]
Nick Viall
And again, these people know you. They know how you react when you don't get what you want. And they're probably at. You know, and they want to validate you. But again, if you show them you don't care, they won't care. They are just.
- [107:58]
Caller - Emily
I told them I was having her, and they were like, why would you do that when she doesn't care about you or support you? Why would you possibly do that? So that's when I started kind of. Of rethinking.
- [108:09]
Nick Viall
Well, and then some people like to project, you know, and you could say, because I. Because it. Ultimately, your answer is because it doesn't really matter. You know, that's not the focus of my wedding weekend or my wedding. And I just don't, like, feel like spending more emotional energy on the wedding party. It's like, the least important part of the wedding. I don't think a lot of people talk about the wedding party unless. Unless the bride makes a drum. No, you're.
- [108:35]
Caller - Emily
You're so right. No, I'm making this a way bigger deal. Yeah, it's really not. It's really not.
- [108:42]
Nick Viall
Your wedding's a big deal because you're. You're committing to spend the rest of your life with a person. So focus on that. Not the other stuff.
- [108:49]
Caller - Emily
Yeah. And I don't want to cause him any emotional unrest or drama.
- [108:55]
Nick Viall
Yeah, he's. He's going to care about what you care about because he wants to validate you and support you. But you have the opportunity to wow a lot of people by not making this such a big deal because the people who know you are expecting you to make this a big deal.
- [109:09]
Caller - Emily
Well, I think. I mean, I think that what his other sister said was, that's not who you are. That's not who you are. You are someone who gives grace. I don't think I give myself a lot of grace, which is why these things rile me up, because I am feeling rejected. So I'm feeling like I need to fix this. It's more about me. It's not necessarily about, you know, I don't know. Now I'm starting to unpack this a little bit. I think. I think it. How it makes me feel is hurt. But what would my natural instinct be? Would be to move with Grace.
- [109:46]
Caller - Chelsea
Not.
- [109:46]
Caller - Emily
It wouldn't be to be petty and vindictive.
- [109:48]
Nick Viall
It just. Yeah, but we. That's never the version we.
- [109:51]
Caller - Emily
It's way more about me than it's about her.
- [109:53]
Nick Viall
Most of the time. We're not actually. I know sometimes we're like, you know what? I'm going to be petty here. You know, like. Yeah, sometimes we're that self. Aware. A lot of times we convince ourselves it's not what it is when it
- [110:03]
Caller - Emily
is, you know, lots to unpack.
- [110:05]
Nick Viall
Listen, one of the best. One of the things. One of the best lessons I ever learned. I used to be asked, what'd you learn when you went on the Bachelor? And I would be like, I would. You know, I'm like, I went out when I was 33. I didn't learn anything. It's stupid. Why would I have to. Why would I have to learn something? But what I learned is, you know, while your feelings matter and they're real, you know, they are feelings and feelings change and you can. And the bachelor universe is this very controlled universe that makes you feel things. But what causes those feelings is the controlled. Is the very unrealistic atmosphere, which is like you're competing for one person with 20. That affects how you feel. We live in a time where we. Your feelings. I feel this. So therefore I'm right. I mean, you feel it. It's real. But doesn't mean why you feel it. It doesn't mean the reason you feel it is why you think you might be feeling it. Feeling it you know, does that make sense?
- [110:56]
Caller - Emily
It does, yeah.
- [110:57]
Nick Viall
And that we can have a feeling and it can make us feel a certain thing. But why? What causes that feeling or how we process that feeling we have control over. And just because we feel something doesn't validate us to like, justify like, moving a certain way. Just because we feel something, how we process those feelings plays a huge role. And our happiness in the relationships that we have stuff.
- [111:23]
Caller - Emily
The timing of this is crazy because I'm. I'm really trying to tackle this head on. Like, I've been having conversations about this a lot and I'm.
- [111:31]
Nick Viall
Well, I think step one is stop. Stop doing that.
- [111:33]
Caller - Emily
Let it stop having conversations about. Well, I mean, I just mean about the way that my emotions can kind of rule me. And, you know, well, it's good to
- [111:42]
Nick Viall
be aware of it too. And I say this all with love because I like being right and I'm stubborn and I ruminate. And all the advice I've. I'm giving you now, I've had to learn the hard way and give it to my. Myself. And again, I still, I like. It's a never ending battle. You will always like being right. This will always be something you have to work on. You're either just going to get better at it or you're not. But part of that is someone who ruminates. I imagine that you do a lot is you just have to, like, choose to let it go. You have to just say the thing out loud, which is to like, I just. I know the answer. I don't need to, like, keep replaying into my head to validate my choices. I just, just. I just have to let it go. And I have to choose to think about something else. And when that thought pops in my head, I just have to recognize that it's there and then challenge myself to think about something else. Whatever it is. As long as I'm not thinking about the thing that I'm obsessed with thinking about.
- [112:28]
Caller - Emily
Y. That's right.
- [112:30]
Nick Viall
And that comes with, you know, honestly, you don't need to talk about with your therapist. You don't have to talk about with your friend. You just need to accept and move forward.
- [112:37]
Caller - Emily
Okay. I'm gonna try. All right. Just take a step in that direction.
- [112:42]
Nick Viall
Good luck. Luck. Let me know. Let me know what you decide.
- [112:46]
Caller - Emily
Thank you. I've decided.
- [112:49]
Nick Viall
All right.
- [112:49]
Caller - Emily
I've decided.
- [112:50]
Nick Viall
Okay.
- [112:51]
Caller - Emily
All right.
- [112:52]
Nick Viall
Well, good luck. Congratulations on the wedding. When's the big day?
- [112:54]
Caller - Emily
Thank you so much. We don't have a date yet. I think either June or July next year. Okay. Definitely 20, 27.
- [113:03]
Nick Viall
You're spending more. You know, you don't even have a date and you're trying to figure out who's your wedding party.
- [113:06]
Caller - Emily
It feels very important. Felt like. It felt like one of the most important things. And I just have to. I'm noticing it's not okay. It's really not. I'm making it a way bigger deal, so that's kind of freeing. Okay. It's not. Just not that big, not that deep.
- [113:24]
Nick Viall
Good luck.
- [113:25]
Caller - Emily
Thank you.
- [113:26]
Nick Viall
All right, take care.
- [113:27]
Caller - Emily
Bye.
- [113:28]
Nick Viall
Bye. We all prefer things a certain way, like groceries.
- [113:45]
Caller - Stacy
If you want groceries just how you like them, you gotta try Instacart.
- [113:48]
Nick Viall
They have a new preference picker that
- [113:50]
lets you pick how ripe or unripe you want your bananas. Shoppers can see your preferences upfront, helping guide their choices.
- [113:57]
Caller - Stacy
Because when it comes to groceries, the details matter.
- [114:00]
Nick Viall
Instacart.
- [114:01]
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