E1007 Ask Nick - He Cheated at the Wedding

Summary

The Viall Files

Episode 1007: Ask Nick – He Cheated at the Wedding
Date: September 29, 2025
Host: Nick Viall
Special Guests/Co-Hosts: Natalie Joy, The Household

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall, with contributions from Natalie Joy and the Household, offers listeners his signature candid advice on a trio of listener relationship dilemmas. Topics range from navigating intimacy hang-ups within a longtime marriage, how to respond after witnessing (near-)cheating at a wedding, and the nuanced world of dating as a micro-influencer. As always, Nick blends empathy with humor and honest reflection, reminding listeners not to take themselves too seriously—whether the challenge is in the bedroom, at the altar, or on social media.

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Call 1: Intimacy Mental Blocks in Marriage

Caller: Anna, 38
Topic: Mental block about giving her husband oral sex
Timestamps: [02:58]–[18:22]

Key Discussion Points

• Anna describes her marriage: Long-term (16 years), good sex life, one sexual partner (her husband), relatively adventurous and open with each other's desires.
• Her dilemma: Uncomfortable with the idea of giving her husband a "just for you" blowjob outside regular intimacy. It's not that she's against oral sex as part of sex/foreplay—it’s the idea of making it one-sided or transactional that causes mental friction.
• **Her husband occasionally requests this—not often, but as a special thing. Anna struggles to get out of her head and doesn't tend to initiate intimacy in this way.

Nick’s Advice

• Normalize the issue:

  "I don't know if you're the only one who's like, maybe not down for just having a dick in your mouth without, like, receiving some enjoyment on your end too." – Nick [05:12]

• Focus on the mindset:
  Suggests Anna talk with her husband about what specifically he finds exciting about the one-sided BJ fantasy. Understanding his motivation might make it easier for her to inhabit the role play and find enjoyment in it—or at least not see it as a "job."
• Reciprocity in intimacy:
  Nick explains why it’s okay for either partner to occasionally want or receive one-sided pleasure—but both need to understand what turns the other on, and mental "warm-ups" are as important as any physical ones.
• Don’t force spontaneity:

  "You shouldn’t expect yourself to spontaneously be like, it’s go time, I’ve turned into another person." – Anna, [16:37]
  "It doesn’t have to be so literally spontaneous. It just has to feel spontaneous, you know, for the other person." – Nick [14:41]

• Find meaning in the act:
  Nick suggests Anna focus on how she can still find enjoyment or turn-on in his pleasure, even if it’s not physically about her in the moment.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Every couple wants...the other person to make the first move and turn us on." – Nick [13:21]

• "Ask each other what about that turns you on, and create a safe space where like...I'm interested in that it might turn you on." – Nick [14:41]

• "We don’t want to become roommates." – Anna [15:52]

• Nick’s summary takeaway:

  "Even though he is like, hey, in this moment, I want it to be all about me, you should still be able to enjoy this experience. So you have to figure out how you can mentally or physically enjoy this experience." – Nick [16:55]

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Call 2: A Wedding (Almost) Cheating Scandal

Caller: Sarah, 27
Topic: Friend's fiancé acted unfaithfully at her wedding. Should she tell?
Timestamps: [22:22]–[43:14]

Key Discussion Points

• Situation Recap:
  • Sarah and her husband hosted their wedding.
  • A male friend of the groom (“Jimmy”) attended solo (his fiancé absent).
  • Jimmy drunkenly flirted, held hands, and went back to the hotel with another of Sarah's friends (“Mary”), whom he’d just met.
  • Mary only found out (at the last minute) he was engaged—she kicked him out before anything more happened.
• Sarah’s dilemma:
  • She found out only after from Mary, who was genuinely rattled and felt bad.
  • The question: Should Sarah (or her husband) intervene and tell the fiancée or confront Jimmy? They are not particularly close to Jimmy or his fiancée.
  • Concern about inserting her wedding and herself into drama, making her special day part of someone else’s pain.

Nick’s Advice

• Be careful with assumptions:

  "For anyone out there in general, I think it’s careless—I don’t care who you are, how long you’ve been together—to say, that would never happen [to us]." – Nick [27:05]

• Levels of intervention:
  • If it’s your close friend, you might owe them honesty, or at least holding the cheater accountable.
  • In this case: not close friends = lower obligation, risk of making assumptions about their relationship (monogamy, boundaries, etc.).
  • Bringing drama into her own wedding’s memory may be unnecessary.
• “Anonymous tip” strategy:
  • Nick floats the idea of sending Jimmy an anonymous message (from a “finsta”) to spook him into confessing.

  • "Hey, I was at this wedding. I saw what happened. I’m gonna tell her." – Nick [36:38]

  • Ultimately, whether to act at all is a personal call; Nick leans toward letting it go unless she’s truly looking out for the fiancée—not for entertainment.
• Knowing the limits:
  • You don’t really know what the couple’s agreements are, or what the woman would want.
  • Risk with reaching out: “It’s just kind of sticking your business in something...you don’t need to attach your wedding and your special day and insert yourself in drama.” [39:04]
  • At the same time, scaring him to come clean could potentially protect the fiancée if she cares.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "If most people you go on a date with you like, and you're looking for reasons to like them, then that ceases to make them special." – Nick [52:17] (Though from the next call, Nick’s theme here applies: Don’t universalize; context matters.)

• "Her and I were talking about that and basically saying, maybe you should reach out to him...but it's not his close enough friend, I think." – Sarah [35:48]

• "Every great wedding has a little bit of drama." – Nick [35:48]

• "Once you send it [the anonymous message], you will not get an answer. You will not find out if he said anything...You have to assume that once you send it, that's it." – Nick [41:59]

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Call 3: Micro-Influencer Dating Struggles

Caller: Nicole, 33
Topic: How to date effectively as a micro-influencer in a small town
Timestamps: [46:43]–[75:47]

Key Discussion Points

• Nicole’s career & dilemma:
  • Works full-time in tech; runs a local Instagram account with ~35,000 followers featuring small businesses.
  • Struggles to connect with men whose attitude shifts once they realize her local “micro-celebrity” status. Some seem to be interested in perks (free stuff, event invites) more than her for herself.
  • She gets “the ick” from the influencer label and feels people either act weird or use her.
• Filtered by fame:
  • Nick frames the “local stardom” as a double-edged sword, but also a fail-safe filter.

  • "If someone doesn't know how to handle being around you, they're not your person." – Nick [51:25]

• Boundaries and pride:
  • Nick notices Nicole leads with her work and subtly seeks validation; it’s important to be proud of her project, but not take it so seriously or use it as a way to impress or attract romantic interest.
  • Acknowledges the temptation (and reward) of being validated or needed—by small business owners, suitors, or friends alike.
• Guardedness from past experience:
  • Nicole describes being “used” by friends with small businesses.
  • Nick suggests establishing clear boundaries early (“I don’t promote friends’ businesses”), and looking for a partner who has their own passions and treats her project with normal curiosity.
• Advice for Staying Grounded:
  • Nick shares his own evolution: attention feels good, but true validation and stability come from within and through real-life connections, not fleeting local fame.
  • Suggests she think through her goals with her brand. Is this a side hustle, a vehicle for ego, a potential full-time business?
  • Practical advice for dating: lead by talking about the “business” side, not the status side.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "There's a part of you...that likes being validated...so you've ignored the red flags for the sake of being validated for your side hustle." – Nick [62:08]

• "You are using it to impress people and then you don't like it when you feel used...You're using it, and then when you get used by it, you don't like it." – Nick [65:24]

• "It's a business for me. It's work. That's all it is. It's work I enjoy, I'm lucky to do it...but it's work." – Nick [73:39]

• "Don't take yourself too seriously. You can be passionate, but remember at the end of the day you're just you." – Nick [64:15]

• "Your version is like, ‘people are weird around me and I don't even know what the big deal is’...But there's a part of you that likes it." – Nick [63:42]

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Memorable Moments & General Insights

• On Intimacy in Long Relationships:
  • The importance of communication, mutual discovery, and not letting routines dull excitement.
  • The idea that "one-sided" pleasure doesn't mean the giver can't enjoy the act, mentally or emotionally.
• On Relationship Temptation & Betrayal:
  • Infidelity can happen in any relationship; it's rarely expected. Never be complacent about connection.
  • Not every moral dilemma has a clear right answer—especially when not personally involved.
• On Personal Identity & Social Perception:
  • Success, attention, or “micro-fame” is a double-edged sword; the ego boost it supplies can cloud judgment in relationships and friendships alike.
  • Be honest about what validation means to you, and check your motives before mixing business—or status—with pleasure.

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Closing Note

Listeners are reminded to communicate openly, keep self-awareness in check, and approach both relationships and side hustles with a blend of humility and pride. Whether your challenge is in the bedroom, managing secrets, or balancing online and offline personas, Nick’s advice: don’t overthink or over-attach your worth to any single part of your life.

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Transcript

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[C]

You're crazy.

[A]

How's it going?

[D]

All right. Good morning. Hi, Nick. My Name's Anna. I'm 38 and I have a mental block about giving my husband blow jobs.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

What do I do?

[A]

Well, you know, we'll see where this.

[D]

Probably more.

[A]

I don't know. I mean, you know, I. It's not really my place to say what you should or shouldn't do. Put it this way. Do you want to give him blowjobs?

[D]

Listen, I want him to enjoy himself. Of course. And we, like. I'll give a little background. We've been married a long time. We have, I think both of us would say, a pretty great sex life.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

But. And maybe it's just guys like to get the occasional blowjob. Right.

[A]

I think it's safe to say that both men and women enjoy some oral sex. Receiving oral sex from time to time. Not everyone, but, you know.

[D]

Sure.

[A]

It seems like it's a very popular thing in the sack, so to speak.

[D]

Sure.

[A]

For all genders. So I think, well, let's just acknowledge that.

[D]

Well. And I'll say, like, within the realm of, like, we're having sex, we're being intimate. No problem. All for it. Like, if it's. If it's part of the whole grand scheme of we're having sex, foreplay, whatever that may be, then I'm great.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait. You're telling me that when you and your husband are fooling around and being intimate, you don't mind giving him some head?

[D]

Right.

[A]

So what. What exactly is the problem then?

[D]

I. It's like I have a hang up. If the idea is I'm approaching him and this is meant to be. This is just about you in this moment. I'm not looking for anything for myself. I'm just looking to get you off. And that's it. And that's.

[A]

Is this an idea that you would, like, want to do or he. You think he wants. Because I'll be honest, I don't know how many married men out there are just like having their wives or girlfriends or partners, like just in the middle of a football game, going down on them while they kick back, relax and.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Okay. I don't know. I don't, I think, I don't know if you're the only one who's like, maybe not down for just having a dick in your mouth without like receiving some enjoyment on your end too.

[D]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

Is he trying to convince you otherwise?

[D]

No. Convince me? No. Just say, hey, this is something I'd like. This is something I would like you to do for me. And it's not something that's coming up a lot like on a birthday or.

[A]

Just like on a Tuesday.

[D]

Just a rant. Just a random Tuesday.

[A]

Huh.

[D]

And, and not even that often, even. And I'd say it's happened a handful of times in our 16 year marriage. And a little background to that too is that I've only had one sexual partner. It's him. And so our sex life from the beginning to now has grown a ton, obviously, because I came into this sort of like a novice and figuring it out and figuring out what both of us like. And so, so, yeah, like, where our sex life is now is the best it's ever been. I'd say that's great.

[A]

And you feel confident that he feels the same way I do.

[D]

Yeah, he doesn't. He will tell me how he feels. So I've reacted as like, I don't know. That just feels. I was like, I think I have a hang up about it being one sided. I don't.

[A]

Is it like the principle of it? Well, first of all, I listen for married couples in general. I think it's great that Marri couples especially, they've been together for a long time, like, you know, are open minded to making each other happy. You know, role playing, you know, just like suggesting things they like and having their partner open to doing it. You know, in general, I'm having a bit of fun at your husband's expense. But like, if this is just like, hey, this is kind of a fun fantasy, it would be kind of cool if you did this. Yada, yada, yada, then yeah, I don't think it's that big of a deal that he's asking for this, but I think it needs to be. I think the clear thing is you need to feel comfortable that it's, it's more that rather than like, why doesn't my wife just give me blowjobs whenever I want? Right. Like, as long as it's definitely the. Okay. It's not like you're afraid of giving blowjobs or. It's like an ick for you in general. Right Again. In bed. You're totally down to like, you know, for sure.

[D]

For sure. Yeah. It's already part of our.

[A]

Is it like the principle of it for you or something? I don't. Like, what's the.

[D]

I think it, like, it feels more like I'm just like, I don't know. That feels weird. I don't want to. I don't know how to approach that maybe. And it's kind of like, well, why? Yeah, I guess it's two parts. Part of it is that I just feel kind of weird, like, all right. And maybe it's a little.

[A]

And he doesn't want to do anything for like, when does he want this to take place? When does he want this to take. You have. Do you guys have kids?

[D]

I mean, we also, we have kids and so like, we both have careers. Like, we're super busy. There's not a lot of time. And so it would be. Probably not even happen that often, but I think knowing that it could happen would be, you know, he'd be like, all right, great. That was great. Do you think he would do.

[A]

What are your fan. Like, what are your requests? What are your fantasies? What are.

[D]

And so I think anything that I would ask him, he would do. And he has, he has done that for me. Right. It has been just about me. It's just I have like a.

[A]

Couldn't you give yourself a bit of like a warm up round?

[D]

Right. Maybe that's part of it. And I as this has come up probably over the last, I mean, maybe even five years of me knowing it's something he would like me to do. Me being kind of like, I don't know about that, but trying to be like, what's my husband? And I love him. And obviously if he's telling me that's what he wants me to do, then.

[A]

Okay, I mean, listen, I don't, I don't know the mind of a woman, so to speak. Listen, like anything else that I essentially talk about on this show, it's really just about your mindset and your perspective. Right. Like, again, we're talking about sexual intimacy. So, you know, just disclaimer. Want to make sure this is in your comfort level, something that you want to do. Understanding that like, you might not be excited about the blowjob. Aspect of this. But you. What you want is to reciprocate your husband's willingness to make it all about him when he's willing to make it all about you at times and just like, mix it up, you know, sexually. And yeah, there is a time and a place for a couple to like, you know, be intimate and in bed. And then, yeah, I think there's a. A level of spontaneity and a level of almost like sexualization of each other. Like, it's like, you know, I think for married couples, like, sometimes things become ordinary, mundane routine. It's like you're scheduling sex, you know, because you got kids and it's just like, you know, you're trying to figure out, let's just get it, you know, do it during the day because by 9, I'm just going to be tired. If it's a mental block for you, you know, you. How do you get over the mental block? Right? And so, like, it's not, I don't want to give my husband the blowjob. It's more about. I want to. What, like, for example, what turns him on about that? I would ask him that. Like, you guys should talk about that. What about that turns you on? And maybe he's just like, I don't know, it kind of feels a little slutty without sounding crude. Maybe, maybe it, like it in the nicest possible way objectifies you in a way that's like a safe space between you. I don't know why he's into it, but maybe you communicate that and maybe in a mindset you can play that role of. So it's not just about you, right? Like, yeah, he might be getting the head and you might be giving it. And like, maybe in this moment it's not about necessarily you getting off, but how do you guys role play this scenario that makes it feel, I don't know, like a little bit of connecting, you know? So, like, even if you're not, Even if this moment's not all about you, how do you guys still connect? Right? Ask them about, like what. What about that turns you on? You can get excited about how you're making your husband feel and that could be your focus rather than being like, like, yeah. And again, like, I don't know, maybe even for men. Like, you know, I. I think we're for women. You know what, it's the saying, you know, women, like, kind of, you need to warm up the oven, so to speak. Or men can go from 0, 100. But I think as men get older, and have kids and whatever in life, you know, is full of responsibility. Even men are just, like. They don't go from, like, being tired and having a long day to, like, having an instant erection. You know, they're not 21 anymore. If your husband were to make it all about you in a moment, he might want. How does he mentally go there? He might need to mentally stimulate himself or physically stimulate himself to, like.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Amp him up. Right. Also, like, maybe you do some version of that, and then you can go ahead and if it's all. If it's all about him, maybe you. You start by yourself and you finish by yourself. I don't know. Like, I don't think you can go back and. Well, I'm going to congratulate something like that.

[D]

That's a helpful perspective, I think. Yeah. Thinking of it, like, trying to get out of the headspace of, like, okay, let me do this.

[A]

Yeah. Because then it just feels like a literal job. You're just like, he gets home like, all right, I guess so I get on my knees or, like.

[D]

Right.

[A]

And you went from, like, washing some dishes to, you know.

[D]

Exactly. There's so much. I think, for women at least, I think this is accurate for most women, it's. You get in your head, and you need to feel like in your headspace that you're like, I'm in this moment right now. And so, yeah, just jumping right into that without a lot of like, oh, this is about me, too. And we're, like, having a moment, which. Not to say, like, we could obviously make out and stuff, and then it could proceed to that. But I kind of thought. I think I. The more I just, like, try, I think it'll. I'll get out of my head more. And it's come up before, too, about when I don't initiate as much. He, like, just initiates sex in general. He's like, it makes. I want to feel like you're physically attracted to me. And I'm like, I am. You know, so these kind of things, I think to make it feel like, oh, you want me. Because he. He definitely makes me feel that way. So.

[A]

Yeah. And I think every couple wants that a little bit, I think, because I do. Like, as we get older and especially with kids, I think we always want the other person to make the first move and turn us on.

[D]

Right.

[A]

And so, yeah, you guys just have to communicate how you guys can do that from time to time to each other. And if. If this is. There's a moment where, like, all right, I'm Gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna fulfill a fantasy or desire of my husband's. Like. Yeah. It doesn't mean that you can't go into a mindset where you're turned on. It doesn't have to be like literally smack dagger in the middle of an afternoon, squeezing it in between taking out the garbage and going to the grocery store or whatever. I don't know. It can feel for him very spontaneous and one sided or, you know, if that's what he's into in that moment. But for you, it can be something that you're mentally warming up to.

[D]

Yep, I think so. I, and I don't think I should expect for myself to. It sounds like after talking to you too and like getting another perspective that I should just be like spontaneously being like, oh, I really want to do this as a mom and you know, everyday life.

[A]

Yeah. No, I mean if it was like, yeah, reverse the role, you know, if it was like, hey, you wanted that.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And you. And you didn't have to worry about him. Yeah. He may need to like mentally warm up, you know, or physically warm up. Like he also might want. You also might want him to take a shower so he doesn't stink. I don't know. Like, it doesn't have to be so literally spontaneous. It just has to feel spontaneous, you know, for the other person. Ask each other what about that turns you on, you know, and create a safe space where like, you know, I'm and making seem interested. Interested in like that it might turn you on to find out what turns him on. Not like, oh, I hang, hang out. You know, like you do it not in a place of judgment or like a freak. Why do you like that? You know, not that. Right. And so if you show an interest in what turns your partner on, that can also turn them on for you being interested and kind of excited to hear about.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

What they're into. You know, imagine like if, if your husband showed a curiosity and what turned you on and he asked and he was like, oh, that's hot. That would make you feel good. So do that. Yeah. Just kind of mentally go there. Like, I don't know, maybe he wants you to play a certain role when you're doing this. Maybe it's an opportunity to like be, you know, just a little, little play a little pretend.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. And when you're so many years in, of course. Yeah. We, we don't want to become roommates.

[A]

And so that's put on a wig or something. I don't know, like play Right. I don't know if he's into something.

[D]

Yeah. And I think we both like are giving so much of ourselves to, you know, family, jobs, all the things all the time. And so you want to feel taken care of in a way. And so I think that's partially why I'm asking is like, okay, if this is something he wants and I obviously want to take care of him and I want to him to feel like I'm into him. All those things like in a marriage that you, you want to keep, keep alive. So. So yeah, that's kind of why I'm here asking. Yeah. Like, is this something. How can I, how can I do this for him?

[A]

I mean, do you feel like you're on the right path?

[D]

I think so, Yeah. I think this has helped. One, it's helped to just have another perspective. And two, yeah. Just to hear that I shouldn't expect myself to spontaneously be like it's go time, I've turned into another person. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And that I can completely remove all of the like to do list in my brain that I'm constantly running through.

[A]

I think the big takeaway is even though he is like, hey, in this moment, I want it to be all about me, you should still be able to enjoy this experience. So you have to figure out how you can mentally or physically enjoy this experience. He doesn't have to necessarily be part of that entire process. From his perspective, it can feel like all about him, but you can still enjoy the experience. And I think that's the big takeaway.

[E]

So true.

[A]

Where you felt like, well, it's not about me, so I don't get to enjoy this. Well, that's no fun. Right. And then that's not sustainable. Like reverse roles. Like just because you want in a moment that's all about you, it's not like you want him to hate it. Right. You want him to enjoy making it all about you. So how does he get to enjoy that? Right. Like, you know.

[D]

Yeah. I think and I tend to over complicate it and over anything. I tend to overthink anything. And so it's not that complicated. Yeah. And it's just can be part of our sex life and it's not, it doesn't have to be one sided.

[A]

Like you're saying, well, hopefully this was helpful.

[D]

Yeah, it was helpful. Yeah. I was like, I don't know what great answers Nick will have.

[A]

But I didn't either.

[D]

Talking it, talking it through. I felt like this was maybe a different question too. From a long time married person.

[A]

Yeah, no, I imagine this will be hopefully helpful and insightful for people listening.

[D]

Hopefully.

[A]

Would love an update. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. Okay, great.

[A]

All right, well, thanks for the call. I appreciate it.

[D]

Yeah, thank you so much.

[A]

You do have a fun weekend.

[D]

Yeah, thanks. Yeah. Put it in practice.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[A]

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[A]

How's it going?

[C]

Going good. My name's Sarah, I'm 27, and my question is what do I do about a friend that acted Unfaithful at our wedding.

[A]

Your wedding?

[C]

My wedding.

[A]

Okay, who's the friend? They came to your wedding and hooked up with someone else at your wedding, but this friend is in a relationship, I'm guessing, something version of that.

[C]

Yeah, essentially. Okay, so basically how this happened is one of our friends is engaged. His fiance was invited to the wedding, but she couldn't make it. And then he met another one of my friends who, like, they never would have ever crossed paths before. It's like a college friend versus high school friend on different sides. And I had no idea this was happening at the wedding. It's kind of a weird gray area. So that's partially why I'm looking for advice. I feel like if. If it was more clear, then I definitely would say something. But after we got back from the honeymoon, one of my girlfriends, the one that this happened with, reached out to me and was sending me some voice memos because she just wanted to let me know in case I wanted to do something with this information. And essentially, they had been kind of flirting on the dance floor. He was kind of going up to her, spinning her around, putting his arm around her waist, you know, flirting. I didn't notice. I was, like, having the time of my life.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I was like, I don't care. Who?

[D]

Anybody.

[A]

So how did you. How did you hear about this?

[C]

So she reached out to me after we got back from, like, all of our vacations because she wanted to let me know. She doesn't even know him, so.

[A]

Okay. I want to make sure I'm following along. So the friend. Your friend who was unfaithful, is this. Is this girl you're referring to?

[C]

No, sorry. My husband's friend is the one that was unfaithful.

[A]

Okay, so your husband, friend. So guy was unfaithful. All right, so you have another friend, and she found out that your husband's friend, a guy. We'll call him Jimmy. Jimmy came up.

[C]

Okay, Jimmy.

[A]

Jimmy came up to Mary. We'll call her Mary. And he was being flirtatious and fun and putting his hands on her hip. And she just thought, hey, I met a cool guy at a wedding, and she was having a good time. Dust settles. She finds out this motherfucker's engaged, but his fiance couldn't also come to the wedding.

[C]

Right, but there's more that happened than just flirting on the dance floor.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, keep going.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

So then she's telling me the story, and she basically says, okay, the night's winding down. He's like, you Want to go get a drink? They're out at the bar at the wedding. And then he asks her, well, what are you doing after? And she says, well, I'm staying at the hotel nearby. Like, basically the hotel most where guests are staying at, it's walking distance. I have some extra drink tickets if you want to come back and get a drink. And so he says, yeah, sure. And again, like, Mary thinks that he's single. And we actually saw them walking back because, like, our suite was sort of, like, on the way, and we were, like, hanging out with friends. And I noticed, like, my intuition, I noticed something a little bit weird, but I kind of was like, he's engaged.

[E]

Whatever.

[C]

Like, he can handle himself. So she said, when they left us and finished walking back to the hotel, he grabbed her hand, was holding her hand the entire way, walking back. And then they were at the hotel getting drinks. And this is sort of where it ended.

[E]

Like, he.

[C]

She saw a picture of a girl pop up on his phone, like, as his screensaver. And she was like, do you have a girlfriend? Like, are you in a relationship? What's going on? And he said, yes, I'm in a relationship. And she said, well, I don't think she'd be happy you're here with me right now. And he said, no, probably not. And then she said, you need to leave. And so she stopped it and basically kicked him out. But they didn't end up actually kissing or doing anything beyond holding hands and obviously acting inappropriate. So that was where I wasn't sure what to do.

[A]

How good of a friend is this? I'm just out of curios. Not that that matters.

[C]

Oh, maybe I think it kind of matters. Not that good of a friend. Like, not. We're not super close with him. I've met his fiance, but, I mean, I don't have her phone number.

[A]

If you were in her shoes, what would you want?

[C]

I don't know. I was trying to think about that. It's hard to imagine because I don't think I would be in that shoes.

[A]

You know, I'm not saying you're. But I know I wouldn't take anything for granted. All I'm saying, you know, I don't know.

[C]

I think it's hard, like, when you're engaged. At least for me, it was like, we're so set. Like, we're gonna get married, and I trust him so completely that it's. I think it would be. I would be open to it if somebody had said it to me, and I would be upset to Hear it from somebody other than him, but it would. I don't think that, like, that's something we'd break up over.

[A]

Yeah, maybe not. This on itself isn't necessarily a fireable offense, you know. Right. People have gotten through far more devastating acts of betrayal. My only point to you is just like. And I'm not trying to spook you or anything. I think for anyone out there in general, I think it's careless for I don't care who you are, how long you've been together, how long, you know, for someone to say, that would never happen.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Most people who are unfaithful don't say, yeah, I cheat.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, they get caught up in a moment, moments of weakness. Maybe alcohol is involved, maybe I don't. Who knows? But, like, it's important, I think. And this is just unsolicited advice to you. It's not about not. You know, I think you have to choose to trust. I think it's important that you and your husband have trust, but never take for granted just how fragile a healthy connection can be. Right. And language like, that would never happen to us has a sense of, like. As if, like, you guys are destined for. To never have that happen. The reality is if, like, years could go by and if you act like something could never happen, then you leave the door open for something to happen. It's just. It's a mindset, you know, again, because you just. You want to protect that. You always want to make sure that you never take anything for granted in a relationship. That's all I'm saying.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You know.

[C]

No, and I agree. And I think it's. What's hard for me to imagine is, I mean, I know, like, things are going to happen in our lives, but it's hard for me to imagine that happening during the time period of being engaged because it's at least. I don't know, it's just like.

[A]

Well, again, I can also just assure you for. I would say most people who are cheated on don't say, I saw that coming. Sometimes. Sometimes they're like, you know what? I probably should have known. Sometimes there's a million red flags. Most of the time, it's. I can't believe, you know, it's. It's the disgust that had happened anyway.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Back to your friend.

[C]

I get it.

[A]

Yeah. And this is not to be like, oh, we should always worry that we're gonna cheat on each other. It's just never take it for granted. Always be checking in with each Other. Not to spy on each other, but to stay connected, to not give. I think especially women, you know, I think men and women are unfaithful for different reasons. But sometimes I feel like, from my women friends or are you hearing about it, it's just like they feel, like, unseen, unheard. Like, they don't feel like that partner is paying attention to them enough, and they. They want some attention. Just never say never. I, you know, always be.

[C]

I think it's diligent. It's kind of good context for this call because I think, like, I am maybe looking at it from a little bit of a cocky perspective, saying, like, you know, I just can't imagine that happen. And so, no, I think it's good to think of a way to be more.

[A]

Yeah, you definitely are. And you're in your literal honeymoon phase of your marriage, and it's exciting, and you shouldn't be, like, burdened with, like, having doubt with your partner. But yeah, like, you're. It's definitely like. You're definitely get, like. You remember being, like, 18 and 19. I made this comment about, like, the Love island people. You have this, like, we're more in love than you're in love. You know, this kind of, like, love competition amongst friends. And when you're feeling really good about your connection, there's a little bit of cockiness that you have when you hear about other people, and it says, like, well, that would never happen to me. I don't know. This. You know, this relationship, this girl you're not. That you're not even that close with. But this motherfucker was so cocky and so sloppy that he had no problem publicly flirting with someone with just hundreds of witnesses, A hundred witnesses, 50 witnesses, whatever, you know, like.

[C]

Yeah, like, tons of people that know his fiance.

[A]

That's crazy, right?

[C]

I mean, not her best friends, but, like, plenty of people in, like, our.

[A]

Community, and he had no problem doing it.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, just goes to show, just hustle.

[C]

I'm definitely feeling bad, worse about.

[A]

So there's a couple of things that, you know, it's funny at our. Without to get into too many details, we heard rumors, Natalie and I, that something went down at our wedding with friends that we have that we're dating, and we didn't spend a ton of time finding out because they were just rumors, and these friends ended up breaking up a couple months later. Anyway, we didn't know. And again, they were just, like, secondhand rumors. So we didn't spend much because it was like, you know what? I don't know, like the details of their relationship and how they go about things. Maybe they have an understanding, maybe they don't. But like, since this is just like third hand rumors, we're not going to go be nosy about something that honestly has nothing to do with us. And we're going to focus on our wedding and like the great wedding and great experience that we had. If I would have witnessed something or known firsthand for sure that something went down. Just honestly putting myself in your position, there's a little bit of conflict of. Now this, this was a good friend, this is a good friend of mine. This isn't a good friend of yours. So I don't know, but like tainting your wedding, like your wedding happened, you had a great time, that's not going to change something. For this particular friend. It would have. Selfishly knowing that if I were to communicate what like if I saw something happen and go down, that, that my wedding would forever be a point of pain for this person would have bothered me. You know, if something really went down, I would have probably, I would have told him, but I've been like, oh yeah, every time I bring up my, my wedding, he would be like, worst day of my life.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

See, and this is somebody I don't know if we're gonna be friends with in like 10 years or not. So I don't know if I care about.

[A]

What's your husband's relationship with her?

[C]

Him, like basically a high school friend who he's not super close with anymore but is now known for a while. We don't live in the same place.

[A]

I mean, probably not your problem. You know, you definitely, I think you can definitely take the easy way out. And whether you should or shouldn't tell them it is the easy way out. But like, that doesn't mean it's the wrong decision. The fact that neither of you are that close with these people, for all you know, maybe they have an understanding. They probably don't because you don't know this person that well. You would be making assumptions about their life and getting involved. So yeah, for you to tell this person you'd be reaching out to someone, like that would probably be surprising to get a call from you.

[C]

They'd be surprised. Yeah. That I had their number.

[A]

And then it's like, yeah, I saw them flirting and blah, blah, you know.

[C]

I don't know, I. I think it's hard because it's like, I feel like it'd be more clear cut for me if they had like kissed or something. It's hard because it's like basically calling somebody and saying your fiance did so many things to make it look like he was about to cheat. And I mean, there are things that they're definitely emotionally.

[A]

I mean, assuming they. They have a relationship like most of us, a traditional monogamous relationship, he definitely emotionally cheated. I think by anyone's standards, this is a tough one because it's a gray area. I don't think there's a clear right or wrong. And I think people listening might guarantee you if there's a person out there who found out eventually that this happened to them, some version they. Everyone says, I would have wanted to know, but the reality is, is you don't know her that well at all or their dynamic. Neither of you are that close with them. If you were to say, well, this is one of my husband's very close friends, then I would been like, he needs to talk to his buddy and been like, hold him accountable and say, hey, that wasn't cool, man. I don't want to get involved. But, like, like, I know this happened and, like, you need to tell her. Or like, I honestly, like, don't bring her around us because we don't want to, like, feel like we're hiding something. It's not our problem. It's not our business. We don't want to get involved. But you need to deal with your shit. And until you do, I need, you know, like, I don't think we could be that close of friends, but, like, he's not that close of friends with this guy, so there's nothing really necessarily to say. And if you have to, like, get this girl's number to, like, give her a surprise call and then have like, well, you know, it's. It's. I think it's. There's too much you don't know or too. It's too vague of a to. And then it becomes. Then you're, you know, Then your wedding is a potential. Like, it's a part of drama rather than. Although I do think every great wedding has a little bit of drama.

[C]

Yeah, I was like, oh, we didn't have any drama at the wedding, but I guess we have trauma after. Not that I want this on anyone, but. No, him and I were talking about that and basically saying, like. I was like, maybe you should reach out to him, because I don't think she's going to want to hear it from me. But he just was. I mean, if I told him you said it, maybe he would do it. But it's not his Close enough friend, I think. Yeah, but what if we get invited to their wedding now? Which we might.

[A]

Don't go. I don't know.

[C]

Yeah, Maybe we just won't go. No. I felt, like, even a little bit guilty. Like, it is one that I wanted to call in about because I really didn't know what to do, but I almost feel, like, a little bit guilty of, like, calling in and, like, using something that might.

[A]

What if you.

[C]

I don't know, be painful to her?

[A]

I don't know if this guy, like, how active he was on social, but, like, from a finsta. Like a fake Instagram account, you sent him a, like, I know what you did last summer kind of message anonymously. So it doesn't come from you, where it's just like, hey, I was at this wedding. I saw what happened. I'm gonna tell her.

[C]

Basically getting him to hopefully tell her himself.

[A]

Yeah. Just make him think, like, there are people out there who know who are planning on telling my fiance, and he doesn't know who it's from or when. It's just a. It's just an idle threat. It's just a. That. But you keep yourself out of it. You don't, you know, doesn't come from you. And then you leave it like that, and then maybe you can go forward with a clear conscience. Man, I tried to. I tried to push it forward, getting myself involved, maybe some version of that. Like, I. You know, honestly, it's not that. It's not the worst idea.

[C]

No, it's not a bad idea. It just feels a little shady.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Making a fake account, but.

[A]

But again, that's what. You're not going to her. You're going to him. I think. Yeah, going to her would be cruel because then it's like, either either tell her or don't tell her. You know, don't get in her head. Because again, it could be, but you just. You make it seem like she's about to find out. You never tell her, but you. You somehow make him think that there's people or a person who was at the wedding doesn't know it's a man or a woman, whatever, he's probably gonna think it's your friend.

[C]

Yeah, but I guess, what do you think is, like, the right thing to do?

[A]

What is your friend? Yeah, that's a good question. What is your friend? 1. Have you talked with your friend who was.

[C]

Oh, yeah, she was really nice about it. She felt so guilty, and I was like, you literally did nothing wrong. You had no idea. But she was Absolutely shocked. She thought he just had a girlfriend. And when I said, like, no, he's, like, engaged, like, the full nine yards, she was.

[A]

Does she have an opinion whether she wants this woman to know?

[C]

I feel like the way she told me, it felt as if she was like, you should probably tell her.

[A]

Well, yeah. I mean, if you do this whole anonymous thing, he's going to think it's her, but maybe she does that thing.

[C]

I don't think she would necessarily care. I think she kind of just thinks he's a dick now, so. Yeah, I mean, I don't think she. She's never going to see him again.

[A]

If you're trying to look at. If you're trying to look out for the ladies, I wouldn't go any further than messaging him and scaring him to think that, like, she's going to find out if he doesn't tell her, so he better get ahead of it.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You think that would be better than, like, just trying to go directly to her?

[A]

I don't know what's better or worse. Right. Because again, there's too many variables. We don't know. And for all you know, you. They're probably not, but maybe they have an understanding, you know? I don't know. Maybe she doesn't want to fucking know. I don't know. Maybe she's already done some shit and maybe they have their own, like, relationship trauma. I. I don't know. And since you don't know a lot, going to her with something that's kind of like, yeah, it's definitely wrong what he did, but, like, it's just kind of sticking your business in something that, like, I just don't know if you need to attach your wedding and your special day and inserting yourself in drama. And that's why I don't think you should go to her and getting your head and getting her scared about something that maybe she doesn't know. Scaring him and giving and trying to encourage him to come clean to his fiance, not knowing what this person you or your friend knows or doesn't know or what he's going to say or not say. It's just that, like, it's. Again, I know what you did last summer. Well, what did I do? Did I kill someone? Did I not kill someone? Did I steal candy? You don't even say that. You're just like, I know what you did, and your fiance deserves to know.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Tell her. Or we will. I know you did at the wedding. Your. Your fiance deserves to know. Tell her. Or we Will is the message. It's great.

[C]

But then we actually won't. It's just.

[A]

No, you. You don't. You. Then. Then you. At that point, you're like, you've done as much as you should, and then you leave it in Destiny's hands.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

It'S a weird one.

[A]

Or you leave it alone. I mean, again, like, you're. It's. This is not, you know, it's not your job to protect these people's relationships that you're not really. You don't really know. This would be for, like, looking out for the ladies. This is a nuanced thing. And, like, no one listening could say. Even if, like, people listening who are triggered by this conversation because they feel like they're her in this equation, and they would want to know, but, like, whoever's listening doesn't know this person's story, doesn't know this person, doesn't know their personality, doesn't know if they would, you know, I don't know. She might not want to know. You know what I'm saying? Like, we don't know this person. So, like, you gotta be very careful to, like, decide for yourself what this person would want to know. Like, that's why. It's just more. It's scaring him. He hopefully knows what his fiance would want in their relationship, and so you just make him feel, to whatever degree that he is feeling guilty or worried that she might find out and just, you know. And, you know, the person who cheats is always like, I don't want them to know, and hoping it goes away and hoping, you know, and. And you're letting him know that, like, there's people out here who are going to know and, like, it's better to tell her now than for waiting for her to find out from us when it's worse. And he can control the narrative and yada, yada, yada. And, yeah, I think that's as far as you go. If you go there at all, anywhere.

[C]

I have a hard time imagining myself making Instagram, but I almost, like, want my husband to, like, text that, basically.

[A]

But it doesn't really matter. But, like, listen, like, this is drama. It's a little fun. Just be careful you're not getting wrapped up in the drama. Like, is this really about protecting the girlies? Or is this a. You know, is it something to do on a Friday night? Because, again, once you send it, you're done. Like, once you send it, you will not get an answer. You will not find out if he said anything. Most likely you know, I guess there's always like, you know, if he does decide to tell him to break up, you can. I don't know. But you have to assume that once you send it, that's it. There's no closure on your part, which is fine. Yeah, totally.

[C]

All right.

[A]

All right.

[D]

Okay, well.

[A]

Well, let me know what you end up doing.

[C]

Yeah, I will. I'm curious to see what my husband thinks, but I'm a huge Biofiles fan. I'm a subscriber. So thanks for.

[A]

Well, thank you for the support. Thanks for listening. I appreciate it. Thanks for more exciting things to come. But, yeah, we appreciate all the shows.

[D]

I love it.

[C]

I think Natalie needs her own podcast.

[A]

So maybe that's we're on the same page and keep telling her. All right, well, let me know. I'm curious what you guys decide.

[C]

No, that sounds good. Maybe I could get my husband on the update, so.

[A]

All right, look forward to it. Thanks for the call. I appreciate you.

[C]

Bye.

[A]

Bye. Bye.

[B]

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[A]

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[E]

How are you? I AM Nicole. I'm 33 and. And I want to know how to date as a micro influencer.

[A]

What are your challenges as a micro. Like what, what made you reach out and ask?

[E]

So I have felt like it's really hard to one know people's intentions. I live in a little bit of a smaller town, so while I don't have a huge following, a lot of people know me in the area and I don't get a lot of dms. I know you and Natalie mentioned met via the dms, but I have been on the dating apps and I meet people and it seems like as soon as they find out about my following, the vibe just changes and it's not always positive. And then if it is positive, I feel like sometimes it's not for the right reasons.

[A]

Okay, just tell me what some of the reactions are.

[E]

It's interesting because with my following I have about 35, 000 followers. So like, it's a good amount, but it's not crazy. And I feel like people around here look at it like, oh my God, you're famous. And I'm like, no, no, no, that's not what this is. But then it's like, oh, so like you get a bunch of free stuff. Like, would I, would you be willing to bring me to get that free stuff with you? Like, I want to go get the free meals you're getting. I want to go do this.

[A]

And I'm like, the guys are asking for free meals.

[E]

They'll like, ask me if they would be able to go with me and do these things. And I'm like, do you want to get to know me or do you just want to. To reap the benefits of my page?

[A]

How do you describe your job on these dates?

[E]

So I have a full time job too, so I don't necessarily lead with this. I'll usually say, you know, I work in tech or whatever. And then they'll be like, oh, what do you do in your spare time? And that's kind of when that separate conversation comes up.

[A]

And how do you message that?

[E]

So I don't call myself an influencer. It kind of gives me like, ick. So I'll just say I help promote small businesses in our area through my Instagram.

[A]

Cool. And then they're. And they're like, how? Then you tell them, yeah.

[E]

And some of them are like, oh my God, I follow your page or I've heard of you. And some of them just think it's really cool. But most of them just immediately think it's like this stardom of sorts. And it's very odd to me.

[A]

I guess I don't necessarily see it as a problem. I see it as a failure filter.

[E]

I guess I just feel like I'm 33 and it's like, how much filtering can I do? I feel like my options are not. Like, I have no options here.

[A]

Are you in a small town or a big town?

[E]

It's not super small. It's like there are little pockets in the area. But I've been on the dating apps last three years and haven't had the best luck. Even if people don't know me, it's still just awful. But. Yeah, well, I mean, that's the name of the game.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I. I think dating culture right now is a challenge for anyone out there. And I don't think. Yeah, again, the dating apps, there's a lot of issues with them and everyone feels like they're struggling with it because, again, I don't think the apps are necessarily really meant to get people off the apps and connect. There are certainly success stories. It's like going on reality tv, you can meet someone. People have gotten married, kids have been born. Is it the best way to meet the love of your life? Not necessarily, but it's certainly a way to meet someone.

[E]

One, I guess, too. My question is, like, how do you know that someone's intentions are good? Like, did you DM Natalie or did she DM you? And if she DM'd you, how are you like, oh, is she just reaching out to me because I'm wasting reality.

[A]

Tv or, I mean, she DM me. And certainly, yeah, when that happens, there's always, like, there's a guard up. And that's the thing. It's just like, I think there's a level of. And you mentioned, like, you know, the word influencer gives you the ick. And I'm not saying, but, like, there's a level of. You just have to make sure you don't take yourself too seriously. And I'm sure your response is like, oh, I don't. But, like, there's a. There's a fine line between, like, having your guard up because people can be funny when they have a point of view about you that, like, anytime I met someone who found out I was on TV or knew I was on TV but tried to not know I was on tv, they had a point of view. Right. And so they'll project that point of view over time. Right. And I had been on dates with people who over time made me uncomfortable because it was more like you could tell they were trying not to act weird and by doing so, acted weird weird. And others, like, really made me feel like a normal person and didn't really care. And that's why I say I call it a filter. Because if this is something you like and you do to whatever degree, you don't make it a thing. If someone doesn't know how to handle being around you, they're not your person. Again, is it weird to. It's weird to me that someone immediately was like, asked for free dinners because.

[E]

Like, yeah, I mean, it's not like their first reaction, but it's also, you know, like. Like if I'm talking to someone and I decide I don't want to pursue them. I recently had a guy say, well, I never wanted to go out with you anyway because I looked at your page and you just seem like you're stuck up and conceited and all these things.

[A]

Yeah, but like, that's just a guy you rejected. Who's mad. Yeah, who's mad? And again, like, understand that's never fun to hear. But that again, is a filter. Just like that guy just revealed who he is. If. If you know this is a petty person who, when triggered and emotionally upset, will react, try to hurt your feelings. So, like, if you had decided to date that person and make him your boyfriend, you might not break up with them, but maybe you did something to upset him and now you know that this is the type of person who would want to hurt you even if you accidentally hurt him in a relationship.

[E]

No, that's definitely true.

[A]

So it's just like a filter in that regard. And I think when we're dating, like, I know dating can be frustrating. Dating is hard. It's hard to meet people. But like, you can't have. Have it both. You can't find something that is special and one of a kind and unique and at the same time, also, like every person you go on a date with or like most people you go on a date with, because if most people you go on a date with you, like, and you're looking for reasons to like them, then that ceases to make them special. But again, it's a fine line. You have to. In dating, I think sometimes it's good to be picky, but some of us are too picky. Again, that's when we go back to, like, knowing the differences between pet peeves and non negotiables. Right. Like, we're spending too much Time with focusing on like these little icks and things like that, rather than, like, how does this person treat me? How do they. How comfortable do I feel with them? You know, how interested are they in my life? Like, the per. The ideal person is someone who has a unique hobby or, or is passionate about what they do in life and work so that, like, when they find out about your extracurricular activities, there's a level of curiosity. Oh, that's really cool. That's. Tell me more about that. Like, I know nothing about that world. Like, 35,000 followers. That, that's a lot. That's really cool. Like, is. Are you able to make some extra money with that? Like, is it, does it ever get frustrating? Like, or is it just all like, fun and gravy or like, how'd you get into that? Like, you know, just someone who's just naturally curious about it rather than weird about it. You have to, like, what you have to be mindful of is to not project either other, you know, things that other men in the past have said about it or made you feel. You have to make sure that you don't take yourself so seriously because what you are doing is unique. Unique. And for all the people in your community go, oh, are you famous? You're like, no, I'm not famous. But like, there is a level of self importance that comes with this thing that you're doing. And I think often we want to, you know, we want to be self aware enough to know that, like, hey, I'm not that special. But we also want to feel like the things that we do are unique and special and we want to be validated and feel important. And I think sometimes we have a hard time striking that balance. Right? And so you have to be careful that when someone does show an interest or asks you questions or like, or even maybe makes a joke, oh, that's fun. Like, maybe I can come along, get a. Enjoy this experience that you're like, you're not. Like, maybe there's joking with you, maybe there's having a sense of humor.

[E]

And that could definitely be possible. Like, I think because even like with friendships, people I feel like, have kind of used me in the past. I do have this guard up and that's really hard to kind of put down. And I honestly wish guys would DM.

[A]

Me, but so many, like, a friend has used you. Like, give me a scenario. Like, how do you.

[E]

Like, I've had friends with businesses that will basically, like, ask to, like, want to be my friend, Ask to grab coffee and I'll be like, oh, this is fun. A new friend, whatever. And we'll get to know each other. And after a year and I'm sitting here like, like, promoting their business on my page, they disappear. And they're like, bye. And it's like, oh, well, thanks for all the promotion. That's what I need to do for. And then they.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, there is that, which sucks.

[E]

But also, I mean, well, I mean.

[A]

Now, you know, like, if. If. If someone, like, reaches out to you and. And. And pursues a friendship with you and you find out they're a small business owner and you and your side hustle is to promote small businesses, then. And that's a red. You know, immediately your guard should go up, you know?

[E]

Yeah, I'm just like, I don't want to be this person.

[A]

If I were, like, if I were a model agent and I had all these, like, you know, if I were single and all these models reaching out to me and I just wanted to find true love, I might be skeptical of a bunch of models, like, hitting me up or, you know, like, if I were in the music business and all, and. And all these, like, aspiring young artists reached out to me, and I was like, this young music executive. I might, you know, that might be a red flag. You know, use common sense. You know, a small business owner who randomly reaches out to you and pursues a friendship, like, there's an obvious advantage to them to being your friend. Right. You know?

[E]

Yeah. And I mean, I think in the beginning, I just didn't know what I didn't know because I was just having fun and posting on this page and whatever. Now I'm much more guarded about it. I just don't want to let me being guarded keep me from something that could be good, too.

[A]

I think it's important for you to not take your side hustle that seriously.

[E]

And I do, like, everything I do. I'm very passionate about it. So I'm just like, this is my baby, you know, which is good.

[A]

But I think again, and from your perspective, I can tell you there's no difference between having 35,000 followers and having 1.3 million followers followers. To be honest, I probably care less about my following than you care about yours. Maybe I don't know in my experience, you know, but get. But. And that. It's just like, again, you built this, and it's unique to what, you know, like most people. And again, in your community, like, I had the advantages of being on a TV show and, like, kind of gifted followers And I certainly have grown it and done things like that. But it's a very unique thing and people are fascinated with this space. Like you asked, ask kids in high school what they want to be in the grow up and the number one answer is YouTube star. It's not astronaut or rocket scientist or whatever anymore. It's like, so you are dabbling in a very fascinating field that for a lot of people has a hint of celebrity to it and people get weird around that. But as you know, you're really not. And you are describing a desire for, for normalcy, a normal life and meeting a normal guy and having a normal relationship and not being treated differently because of this side hustle that you have. So it's important for you to not be different about it and not be so precious about it. You can be passionate about it, have people pull it out of you and not be guarded when they're just asking normal questions. If you happen to meet a friend or a guy who happens to be a small business owner and you find out after the fact, you can just say, yeah, know, I don't, I don't work with friends. Things get complicated and weird. So I don't really, I don't really do it for friends. I don't, you know, because like, also you want to keep a level of authenticity. If your whole side hustle is about objectively reviewing and critiquing and potentially at times promoting small businesses based off of the merits of the business, then your audience needs to know that it's not a pay for play or that you're just there to promote your friends. Like, should I go to this place because they have a need that they can help you with or a service they provide that's like better than the rest? Or is it this woman's friend? So you could just say, like, I just, I don't really work with friends.

[E]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

There's a boundary, you know, that you can have and that you can decide to make exceptions from time to time. But right off the bat, when you find out people have small businesses or they're potentially in a position to use you, you in a way that you don't want to be used, you can make sure you communicate that boundary and see how they react.

[E]

Yeah, I like that plan.

[A]

The fact that like you have made friends with people with small businesses and became friends with them tells me there is a level that you, whether consciously or subconsciously, you, you liked it.

[E]

Like what? Like, liked the fact that they were giving me attention.

[A]

You mean because well, you're not in it, idiot. Right, I can I, yeah, I know you're not an idiot. I've talked to you long enough to know that you're not an idiot. Right. And you know you've built this thing off on the side of reviewing businesses, right? So I, you don't need me to tell you as someone who has a side hustle to promote small businesses that meeting someone as friends or as a potential romantic person interest, finding out they also, they, they have a small business is a potential red flag flag. And you don't need me to tell that you knew that already back in the day. Whether you chose to flag it and do anything with it or not has nothing to do with the fact that like you're aware that it was a potential red flag. And if we're being honest with ourselves, we like having power over people. We like people needing us, we like people being fascinated with what we do. So the flip side of that, that is when you found out that someone was a small business owner, subconsciously you knew that like you could help them or that they might need you or that that they would show an extra interest in what you did. It would validate. Like there's a lot of people in your community, most people in your community don't give a, about your side hustle. They don't give a fuck. But there's a part of you, your ego, I would, you want people, we all want people to give a, about what we do. And if this is something you, you're, you worked on your own and you built by yourself and you really like put work and passion into it. You want people to care, right? Like I literally, my, my, I had my brother in law over last night for dinner. I like to cook, you know, made my homemade spaghetti sauce, homemade meatballs, you know, and he was like, this is the best, this is so good. And oh my God, this is, I've been eating hotel. And that felt validating because like I, you know, I enjoy cooking. That's a passion of mine. And yeah, it was validating to have him really enjoy my cooking. And so there's a part when you meet someone who is a small business owner, they're more set up to validate the work that you've put into the small business. Oh, that's really cool. How would you do that? Oh, that's really fascinating. They're probably the type of people who show more of an interest in this side hustle that you have. Right?

[E]

For sure.

[A]

And there's a part of your ego that likes that and wants to hear that. Right. And so you've ignored the red flag bags in the sake of being validated for your side hustle.

[E]

Yeah, that makes sense. And I think there are probably numerous times that I've done that without even realizing I'm doing it. So now that you're saying it, I'm like, I need to be aware of that when people are talking to me because, yeah, it feels good to be, you know, complimented or whatever. And yeah, I like helping people. So when I help people and then I get that positive affirmation back, I'm like, oh, my God, I want to do that again.

[A]

And it's not also, I think you need to recognize it's not just about helping people. It's just like, I. I like being validated. We all do. Yeah, right.

[E]

That's fair.

[A]

So that's when I say you got to be careful about not taking your side hustle, your passion project, so seriously. You can be serious about it and you can be dedicated to it, and you can be passionate about it without taking yourself that seriously and acting like, you know, because your version is like, people are weird around me and I don't even know what the big deal is and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, like, well, you know, like there's again, there's a part of you that likes it, right? Like, it's the celebrity that, like, complains that they can't go out in public anymore, but when no one notices them, they're like, wait, no one give a fuck that I was like, what? You know, like the reality TV star that walks a little bit slower when they have a group of, like, girls who look like they watch the Bachelor and they walk a little bit slower and they make eye contact with that group so that they do get noticed, only so that they can complain about it after the fact. I mean, that shit happens all the time. The time.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's a version of that that you're doing, and I know that because, like, it's almost impossible not to. And it takes a lot to be self aware about that stuff. And as someone who's been in this world for 15 years, I can assure you that if you feel like a local celebrity, if there are people out there who make you feel like a local celebrity, there's a part of that feels very good and validating and that's fun and exciting. And there's also a part of you that, that your subconscious, unless you tell yourself not to take yourself too seriously, you're you inevitably will be taking yourself too seriously.

[E]

Yeah, that's good advice because I do. I think, you know, it's just like a whole different world to me that I'm not. I've only had the page a couple years, so it's kind of a new. It blew up really fast in this area and there has been a lot of attention. And yeah, it does feel good. But also. So I do think I need to kind of check myself sometimes and be like, just remember, like at the end of the day you're just you. And I do have my full time job and I think sometimes I, I need to like lead with that and not lead as much with the side hustle.

[A]

I think that's good for you to acknowledge. And my guess is that you lead with it more than you realize.

[E]

Probably.

[A]

Yeah, I think you like, oh, I work in tech. And then you're waiting to tell people about this thing that you're proud of. Like, you are proud of it and that's cool that you're proud of it, you know, and so you have to figure out how to. You have to figure out how to feel validated and proud of it without using it as a way to impress people that you either want to date romantically or become friends with. Because that's the thing. You are using it to impress people and then you don't like it when you feel used, you're using it and then when you get used by it, you don't like it.

[E]

And I do think I've always put a lot of weight on my career, so I find like my value in that. So I end up leading with like, yeah, I work in tech, but I also do this and like, look at me go, go. And I need to remember, like, there are a lot of other parts of me that are great. And it's just, it's not just my career. That is what makes me cool, you know, and like fun and whatever and all these other things. Because that is what I always, I don't know, I feel like that was something for my parents too. They're like, you got to have the career, you got to do this. And so then I put so much weight on it.

[A]

You have to, we have to find ways to validate ourselves without necessarily needing it from other, other people. It's good to get it from other people.

[E]

But yeah, and I am, I've actually been working on that with my therapist because she was like, you get a lot of positive, like, affirmations it seems, but then you don't really believe Them. So, like, what is it about you that you're like, you're trying to, like, overcompensate for things. And then I feel like that's where that comes into that. I'm like, well, look at this page I have and whatever.

[A]

Yeah. And I. I can tell you, like, it's, it is. Listen, like, this thing that you've entered into is a very, very. Like, it can be very. There are a lot of benefits and perks and it's exciting, but, like, it's easy to get wrapped up into it and it's easy to lose yourself in it. And it's, It's. It's a very egocentric thing.

[E]

How do you feel like you stay grounded and just like, don't take it all too seriously?

[A]

Because my introverted self kind of hates the attention. I mean, I have a big ego and certainly, like, I can be mindful of that, but I also just like, at this point, I'd rather be rich and powerful than popular. Popular. I'm pretty offline and I don't look at anything. You know, I'm very mindful of where my energy goes. I talk about that shit all the time. I try to put it in practice. So as a business owner and a host of a show, I am trying to focus my energy when it comes to my show on the creative element. And I don't spend a lot of time online looking for feedback or validation because, like, that's not the type of feedback that's really helpful for me. Me, I'll have other people monitor certain types of feedback to, like, make sure, like, we're overall heading in the right direction. But I don't get into the weeds of, like, comments and things like that because, like, five comments. We have millions of people listening to this show every month. You know, 20 comments don't really.

[E]

Yeah, they don't really matter, like, dictate.

[A]

But, like, it doesn't feel like 20 comments when you're reading it back to back to back to back to back. And so, So I don't know, it just. I've gotten good at that. Right? Like, also, you have to be, what are your goals for your small business? You know what I'm saying? If you're go, like, when people go on reality tv, the first sense of validation is to, like, just either are you popular? Are you not popular? And if you're popular, you feel special and you hope that popularity will get you, like, opportunities. I've been.

[E]

And I do think. I don't really know, like, exactly where I want to go with this. So maybe that is something I need to think about too, is like, what is my goal? And once I hit it, like, being happy with that.

[A]

Well, that's the thing, you know, because right now, if you don't know what your goal is, your goal probably is to like, feel important.

[E]

Like, I know I want to help these small businesses, but I'm like, what is.

[A]

I doubt you. I'm sure that is an ancillary benefit. I doubt you got into it because one night you were in bed being like, you know what? My purpose in life is to help other people's businesses. Like, yeah. You know what I'm saying? You're not Jesus. You're not. You're not small business Jesus.

[D]

Yeah, no, for sure.

[A]

I'm sure you like doing it. When I started this show of giving advice, it was like, I'm good at this. I know I can do it. Maybe I can make a show out of it. You know, it wasn't, I wasn't lying in bed. And you're like, you know what? I just, all I want to do is help other people's relationship problems. I do get a lot of enjoyment and personal like this. Ask Nick's part of the show is like the one side that I really get fulfillment out because I ended up helping people. And that made me feel good about like doing good, but I would, I can't honestly. But that's why I got into it, you know, like that would be. It's like, okay, like, I knew I could help people, but it was like I wanted to start a show. So, like, yeah. What is your goal of the side business? Is it to eventually quit your full time job and do this? Maybe that's cool. Like, you know, if you're just.

[E]

I don't know if that's what I want to do. So I do think maybe.

[A]

I think that's a good thing to know because until you know that, then it, you run the risk. Risk of it just being a. Something that makes you feel cool and that you want to get validated for. And if you, if you're not doing it, if you don't have a specific goal in mind, then you're, you're, you're doing it for the attention and that. And so when it comes to dating and making friends, it'll be very difficult for you to discern the difference between whether you like the fact that people know about it or treat you differently or, or make you feel unique and special, even at the risk of being used or not.

[E]

This was helpful it made me think about things in a different way.

[A]

But yeah, I mean, at the same time it is cool that you did that and maybe it can be a fun side project and if you're able to make a little money off of it, like, hey, very few better part time jobs than having a, you know, a small micro following that you can make some extra cash on and have a small business that you can do on the side at your leisure in your time.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

And it can give you access in your community and credibility that can help you you out, you know, like, that's another. I, you know, I was aware enough early on to like be able to realize, well, this can give me access and open doors for me for other aspects of my business or, or things I want to do. The ego will always be there. You just have to be mindful of it. So like. Yeah, but yeah, I think, yeah, that's the thing. Your big, your big thing is figuring out why am I doing this now that I have it, what do I want to do with it? What's my next goal for it?

[E]

Yeah, I need to think about that. That and I just need to remember not to lead with that so much when I am dating because it is fun and I get so much excitement out of it that I want to talk about it and I need to, I think reel it in a little bit.

[A]

Great. Well, keep me updated. Love to know what you. How this.

[E]

I will. I'm going on a date tomorrow, so I haven't been on one in a while, so I'm.

[A]

Have fun. I would look not to bring it up.

[E]

Well, he already knows about about it, so.

[A]

Okay, great. Make him, make him ask. How does he know about it?

[E]

I was a judge for this local event in the area and he was volunteering at it and we were standing at a table with a bunch of other people talking and one of the other women brought up that she knew my page and he was like, oh, I haven't heard of it. I didn't. He's like, I'm not really big on Instagram and honestly for me that was a green flag because I was like, that's great, great. I love that you don't really dabble in that world. And then like he followed me. He damned me. Whatever.

[A]

So when he asked again, like it's, it's a sec. Honestly, you can just be like in terms of all the ego elements, you gotta downplay that and upplay the practical aspects of this side business. So whatever popularity or attention that comes with it, that's not a thing. It's just more like it's a great, it's a great side job. It's a great way to make a little extra money on the side. There's a lot of flexibility in it because it's like my business and it doesn't come in between. So like honestly that's why I do it. And then I, you know, I get to, you know, go to these fun events and meet people like yourself and you know, that's, that's how I got into it and that's what I enjoy about it. But like it's really not, it's not much more than that.

[E]

I will lead with that and see how it goes. He really hasn't brought it up much so I do feel good about that. Like he's been asking questions to get to know me and my 9 to 5 career and all, all that stuff.

[A]

I think the more you talk about it as a business and the less you talk about it as a something cool.

[E]

That's good advice too because I do sometimes forget that I'm an actual business owner because I am making money off it. So it is a business. Like I need to.

[A]

You should be. I don't know. If you don't see it that way then yeah, then you're definitely. You like how it makes you. It makes you feel cool right now from talking to you. That's why you do it. And the it making you feel cool part is complicating your dating life because.

[E]

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

[A]

All it is is it and you ask me how I do it. Yeah, it's a business for me. It's work. That's all it is. It's work I enjoy. I'm lucky to do it. It's better than being an accountant. No offense to accountants out there. I didn't personally enjoy being an accountant when I was and so I'm grateful that I get to do this kind of fun and Zane exciting job but.

[E]

It'S a job and I do really like my full time job too. So I don't know, I think I need to kind of like retrain my brain of how I look at all of this.

[A]

And Ben Affleck gave an interview not too long ago. He talked about the difference between being a celebrity and being rich and he was right. You know, being rich, it's not the key to happiness but it, it helps. It doesn't. You know, being a celebrity only is. It's, it's, it's very short term pleasure and a lot of headache. Long term that comes with it.

[E]

Yeah. And I do think over the past six months, I've started realizing that. And just like navigating all those feelings and different things has been confusing.

[A]

And like I said, like, it's all relative. You probably, in your community act more like a celebrity than Ben Affleck does in his.

[E]

I don't know about that, but maybe.

[D]

I don't know.

[A]

Well, again, it's all relative because then you're, you know.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're in any type of small town, people get excited about the local news. So for you, it's a very fascinating thing. For some people who interact with you, it's the closest they've ever interacted with a celebrity. And so it makes you feel important, it makes you feel special. Like, Ben Affleck's been doing this for a lifetime. He's just like, fucking sick of it. So it's all Robin for sure. That's why a lot of reality TV stars fresh out of TV shows are just egomaniacs because, like, everyone's telling them how unique and special they are, and then they're like, that's when the, like, it crashes and burned. Because people get over things fast. And then for six months they're told how they're the closest thing to Taylor Swift, and then a month later, people are like, who were you in that? Who are you?

[E]

Yeah, yeah, you're right. All right, thank you.

[A]

All right, we'll take care.

[E]

You too.

[A]

All right, bye. Whatever team Fee is on has a chance to win a championship.

[D]

I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast in case you missed it with Christina Williams, the WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout play players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.

[A]

It's really, really hard to be the.

[D]

Champions, but we have to remember how.

[A]

It feels and embrace the new challenge that we have.

[D]

So listen to in case you missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.