E1012 - Love Is Blind’s Patrick, Kacie and Blake, Taylor Swift’s New Album, Meredith Marks DJ Set & RHOC

Summary

---

The Viall Files E1012: Love Is Blind’s Patrick, Kacie and Blake, Taylor Swift’s New Album, Meredith Marks DJ Set & RHOC

Host: Nick Viall (with Natalie Joy, Susie, Mary, Heather, Patrick, Justin, Casey, and more)
Date: October 7, 2025
[Reality Recap Edition]

---

Episode Overview

In this “Reality Recap” edition of The Viall Files, Nick Viall and the Household dive into the latest season of Love Is Blind, reactions to Taylor Swift’s controversial new album, pop culture updates (including a wild Meredith Marks DJ set), and a rapid-fire review of Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC). This episode is anchored by in-depth interviews with Love Is Blind cast members Patrick and Kacie, alongside a chat with Blake on his abrupt pod exit. The conversation flows from serious analysis of reality TV relationships, nuanced discussions about online hate, and the social implications of pop culture moments, all wrapped up with the show’s signature candid, irreverent humor.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Catch-Ups & Pop Culture Highlights

[01:13–05:11]

• Nick and Natalie share highlights from their week: returning to their lake house in Wisconsin; attending the John Candy documentary premiere ("It was a beautiful documentary. Martin Short was there." – Nick, 03:08); and a wild night out in West Hollywood at Meredith Marks’ DJ set ("Mama was out." – Nick, 03:41).
• Cheeky banter about “throwing ass” at DJ events and post-marriage/post-kids social expectations.
• Defiance of stereotypes: Nick pushes back on the idea that women slow down after marriage or kids ("For all the people out there who think you need to slow down… fuck that… and to all the people who suggest that Taylor Swift is going to stop making beautiful music." – Nick, 05:18).

---

2. Taylor Swift’s New Album: Reactions and Debate

[06:10–10:58]

• Mixed reviews from the group – Heather and Patrick find "a bop or two," but opinions are divided.
• Wild fan theories are dissected (notably, about "the redwood" in the lyrics referencing Travis Kelce and "23 centimeters" interpreting to 9 inches).
  • "It's the redwood that opened up her thighs." – Natalie, 07:30
  • “If that's the case, I'll be praying for her.” – Susie, 07:41
• Discussion on Taylor using hidden insults ("You call me Boring Barbie when the coke’s got you brave." – Heather, 08:06, referencing a line interpreted as directed at Charli XCX).
• Debate ensues over whether the album’s criticisms stem from overhype and non-Swifties failing to “get” her “weird” style.
• Commentary on expectation vs. reality ("People made their expectations into personal expectations and Taylor did what Taylor’s going to do." – Mary, 10:02).

---

3. The Internet Isn't Real: Nick's Soapbox Moment

[12:47–16:16]

• Nick implores listeners to remember online life is not real life: Algorithms fuel conflict and echo chambers.
  • "If we have a common enemy as a human species, it is the algorithms, people." – Nick, 12:52
  • Advice to stay off the phone and interact IRL for real human connection.
• Susie shares personal experience with online negativity over her appearance; the group empathizes and jokes about haters’ persistence.
  • “People kept DMing me saying, ‘You're getting too much work done’... I’m just a little under the weather.” – Susie, 15:20
  • “It’s hard when you go online. People can just say anything.” – Susie, 16:16

---

4. Love Is Blind S6: The Messiest Season Yet?

[20:41–47:37]

• Cringeworthy Moments:

  • Mike’s “can’t wait to have the hottest, sexiest kids” line ("Calling your kids sexy. Yeah, don’t do that." – Nick & Susie, 21:06).
  • Mike’s comments about diabetes and fitness, connecting it insensitively to Sparkle Megan ("Type 1 diabetes has nothing to do with your physical abilities." – Susie, 21:39).

• Controversy Over Nick & Annie:

  • Annie’s remarks about not supporting a gay child are called out for being outdated, harmful, and unaddressed post-filming.
    • “To go and be like, ‘Yeah, I don’t know if I could support my kid if they were gay.’ That doesn’t seem like pushing forward the love of God to me as someone who is gay and whose dad’s a pastor.” – Heather, 22:16
    • The group wishes Annie would own up and apologize.

• Fashion Faux Pas & Red Flags:

  • Rants on male fashion choices: "Khaki shorts on men, flip flops on men. Men calling their female partners ‘dude’—stop it." – Nick, 30:05

• Dysfunctional Relationships:

  • Scenes dissected: Joe’s drunken, defensive behavior (“He seems like a bad drunk… that’s why he’s single.” – Mary, 27:14); Jordan’s “dude” talk and awkward tank-top moments; Anna and Blake’s simultaneous “ghosting” from the pods.
  • Anna and Blake’s Departures: Nick interviews Blake about his clumsy, “selfish” exit from the process (see detailed interview below).

• Edmund & Calabria’s Sex/Emotion Drama:

  • Major debate over whether Edmund’s on-camera crying is manipulative or a genuine emotional response.
    • “If it was a woman in his position… they would be called manipulative. But because it’s a guy, we want men to cry and express emotions.” – Mary, 37:03
    • "He is such a pure human being... I hope people are being kind to him." – Blake, 38:24

• Predictions:

  • Nobody feels confident any couple will make it, but speculation abounds.

---

5. Love is Blind Interviews: Patrick, Casey, and Blake

Blake on His Sudden Pod Exit

[32:04–36:17]

• Blake describes the intense, condensed experience; skepticism giving way to cautious hope, but feeling the pressure of the ticking clock.
  • “If you are not working towards a proposal, you shouldn't be there... It was certainly clumsy, but not intentional.” – Blake, 33:22 & 33:37
• Admits in hindsight, he should have communicated better but felt overwhelmed and “checked out” by the emotional exhaustion and grief over his father.
  • “I was very much in this selfish mindset... I wasn't thinking through the departure and how things might unfold after I left.” – Blake, 36:17

Patrick: Aftermath of the Casey Breakup

[55:22–74:31]

• Reflects on being a fan favorite, the support from viewers, and his journey.
  • “A lot of people resonate with my story and they've been telling me... they're proud of me.” – Patrick, 56:04
• Addresses Anna’s “ghosting” as a deal-breaker in terms of resilience: “One of the biggest things I look for in a relationship is resilience... [her leaving] was a turn off.” – Patrick, 57:40
• On Kacie: said their connection felt genuine, especially after trauma bonding but admits he was blindsided by her lack of attraction post-reveal (“The biggest clue... I’m looking back, and she’s just not even there.” – 64:28). He didn’t know she told producers she wasn’t attracted to him until recently.
• Wishes Casey had just been honest about her lack of attraction: “It was really hard to watch her lying... She could have just owned it.” – Nick, 67:06
• The “I love you” as love-bombing: “This seemed to be your typical love bombing, which is using the word I love you as a way to manipulate the situation.” – Nick, 67:06
• Says Casey would not even give him a phone call for closure after the breakup.
• Believes his experience was ultimately healing and hopes his vulnerability resonated with viewers: “I hope it's inspiring for people to be vulnerable, regardless of their insecurities...” – Patrick, 74:31

Casey Responds: Her Side of the Story

[75:11–89:58]

• Casey expresses regret over how she comes off on TV but stands by her decision not to go to Baja ("That probably would have been the worst thing I could have done for us." – 76:05).
• Admits she did not handle the breakup smoothly and her repeated "I love you" during the split may have been confusing and "gaslighting," but felt genuine at the time ("In the moment, I did think I loved him..." – 77:41).
• Clarifies her post-show communication: claims SHE reached out first and asked for time before meeting up ("He wanted to have a phone call or meet up immediately. I was just like, listen, I'm so emotional right now..." – 79:39).
• Cites watching the show as realizing she may have been Patrick's “second choice” and that physical attraction matters to her.
• Admits embarrassment over the “phone sex” scene: “If I could take, like, anything back in my life, it would be episode four.” – 86:26
• Says the process blew up in her face but wants the world to know she was trying to spare Patrick’s feelings about his looks: “I did care about this person... it’s hard for me to watch that Patrick thinks it's because he's ugly or something. I was really trying to spare his feelings.” – 88:59

---

6. Real Housewives of Orange County Recap

[98:32–110:09]

• Mary delivers a witty, rapid-fire recap: Tamara’s endless fights, Gretchen’s "not invited" status, comedy career shade at Heather ("If your friends start taking improv, it is your civic duty to make fun of them." – Mary, 99:05), and bizarre pottery-breaking parties.
• Ongoing group banter about Heather’s acting credentials, Jen’s suspicious social media follows, Emily’s instigation, and child-related storylines that straddle the line between vulnerability and oversharing.
  • “I need Emily to stop talking about her kid's eating disorder. I’m just like, bored.” – Heather, 102:25
• Discussion of how Housewives leverage or exploit their kids’ stories for TV, and discomfort about these choices.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [05:18] Nick: “For all the people out there who think you need to slow down after you get married or have kids, I say fuck that… and fuck that to all the people who suggest that Taylor Swift is going to stop making beautiful music.”
• [07:30] Natalie: “It's the redwood that opened up her thighs.”
• [12:52] Nick: “If we have a common enemy as a human species, it is the algorithms, people.”
• [15:20] Susie: “People kept DMing me saying, ‘You’re getting too much work done’... I’m just a little under the weather.”
• [22:16] Heather: “...to go and be like, ‘Yeah, I don’t know if I could support my kid if they were gay.’ That doesn’t seem like pushing forward the love of God to me as someone who is gay and whose dad’s a pastor.”
• [30:05] Nick: “Khaki shorts on men, flip flops on men. Men calling their female partners ‘dude’—stop it.”
• [36:17] Blake: “I was very much in this selfish mindset... I wasn't thinking through the departure and how things might unfold after I left.”
• [67:06] Nick: “This seemed to be your typical love bombing, which is using the word ‘I love you’ as a way to manipulate the situation...”
• [86:26] Casey: “If I could take, like, anything back in my life, it would be episode four.”
• [97:34] Nick: “I just wish she would have just been a little bit more upfront and honest.”
• [102:25] Heather: “I need Emily to stop talking about her kid’s eating disorder. I’m just like, bored.”

---

Timestamps of Important Segments

• [01:13] – Lake house and personal catch-ups; John Candy doc event
• [03:45] – Meredith Marks DJ set recap
• [06:10] – Taylor Swift New Album breakdown
• [12:47] – Nick’s “the internet isn’t real” soapbox
• [20:41] – Love Is Blind: cringe, controversies, predictions
• [32:04] – Blake on ghosting the pods and his mental process
• [55:22] – Patrick on post-show fallout with Anna and Casey
• [75:11] – Casey gives her side of the split and regrets (esp. “phone sex” scene)
• [98:32] – Real Housewives of Orange County rapid recap and group banter

---

Overall Flow & Tone

This episode delivers laughs and genuine empathy in equal measure. Nick and the Household riff on pop culture and reality TV with their trademark irreverent honesty, but don’t shy away from deeper themes—like the effects of algorithms, the performative nature of dating shows, and online cruelty. The interviews with Patrick, Blake, and Casey allow for real vulnerability, and the group’s dialogue around complicated topics—queer identity, online loyalty, the limits of “blind” love—never feels forced. The RHOC recap brings it all home: snarky, sharp, and self-aware.

---

For fans of reality TV, candid relationship talk, and pop culture analysis—with humor, edge, and real human moments—you couldn’t ask for a better recap than this.

Transcript

[Nick]

Buying your first home feels like freedom until something breaks. Many new homeowners face a home system or appliance breakdown in year one. An AC repair alone can be expensive. American Home Shield can help protect your wallet when the items you rely on break down like your H vac, plumbing, electrical and appliances. If AHS can't repair your covered item, they'll replace it no matter the age. Visit ahs.comvile files for 20 off any plan today and see promo details. That's ahs.visual files for 20 off C A contracts for details including fees, limitations and exclusions. The Viles is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are all things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

[Casey]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another electric episode of the Vile Files reality recap edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by my lovely wife here at the lake. We're back at the lake, enjoying it. We got the household in the new brand new studio in la. Susie Jo, Susie Evans. Right?

[Susie]

Nailed it.

[Nick]

Evan Evans. Anyway, she is joining the household today and wherever you the household is listening. We hope that you are having a lovely day. We had a lovely weekend. We got back to lake, we were back in LA last week, came back to lake. Mother nature blessed us with some warm weather. I think most of the country experienced this heat wave which I think people are out and about. We're up in northern Wisconsin and we're getting 80 degree weather. I was paddle boarding.

[Mary]

Well Today it's like 50 and rainy so yeah, it's okay.

[Nick]

We got the weekend. It was lovely.

[Mary]

It was lovely. Nick put river in the water at the lake. She was like, it's right by the house. It's obviously shallow enough to where she can stand. And so she was like with all her cousins like just playing in the water. It was so cute.

[Nick]

We also had a fun and exciting week last week. We had a very busy Thursday evening. We went to two different events. We were invited to go to the I like me I guess movie premiere. It's produced by Ryan Reynolds and Colin Hanks, son of Tom Hanks. Maybe it's just my age group. Sierra, you're, you know, you know John Candy. Susie, do you know John Candy?

[Natalie]

I don't know, guys.

[Susie]

Wait, I don't know.

[Mary]

Mary. Sierra's close to me.

[Heather]

Yes, I know John Candy.

[Nick]

Sarah, how old are you?

[Mary]

Nick?

[Casey]

Why wouldn't you ask, Mary?

[Natalie]

I just turned 35.

[Heather]

I'm the freak here.

[Patrick]

Home alone.

[Nick]

Okay, 35. That's like.

[Heather]

That's Uncle Buck.

[Susie]

Uncle Buck.

[Heather]

Yeah, Uncle Buck.

[Susie]

I know Uncle Buck.

[Heather]

Sctv, Home Alone.

[Nick]

He's a poker player in Home Alone. Come on.

[Susie]

Yeah, okay. Yes. Yes.

[Mary]

I didn't have to ask, Mary.

[Casey]

Mary.

[Heather]

Planes, Trains and Automobiles.

[Nick]

Planes, Trains and Automobiles. They shut down the 405 when John Candy passed away at a young age of 43. Anyways, it's a beautiful documentary. We had a ton of fun going. Had this really fun panel at the end. Martin Short was there. Nicole Culkin was there. Obviously, so many of these very talented and legendary actors who had the blessing and privilege of performing with John Candy back then.

[Mary]

John Candy's son Chris and daughter Jennifer.

[Nick]

Yes, they were there.

[Mary]

That was cool.

[Nick]

Very fun event. And I got to do a red carpet. Looked really nice.

[Casey]

Aw.

[Susie]

Okay.

[Nick]

Mama was out.

[Susie]

Mamacita, Mamacita.

[Nick]

And then we hop skipped and a jump down to West Hollywood, where our queen, Meredith Marks, was performing one of her DJ sets. Just in. Baby. Sweet, sweet baby Justin. Boy Justin.

[Mary]

Oh, my God. Sweet baby Justin.

[Nick]

Sweet baby. And Sierra joined us for that evening. The whole Marx family was there. And Nelly and I did a shotsky with. I thought we were gonna do it with Meredith, but she was too busy DJing, so it was just us.

[Susie]

Fair enough.

[Nick]

And then Natalie shook her ass.

[Casey]

And then I told Darkton, hell yeah.

[Mary]

I said, after the second baby, I'm retiring from throwing ass.

[Nick]

Why?

[Patrick]

At least you have ass, baby.

[Mary]

But we'll give it to the second baby.

[Susie]

Please don't retire from that. It caught my eye. I'm not going to lie. I'm so sorry I tuned in.

[Mary]

No one gives you instructions when you do a special guest DJ performance appearance, Right? No one tells you what to do. Right.

[Nick]

And thank God for my wife, because I would have just gone on stage and stood there like a goddamn idiot. Kind of like, you know, like, what's his name? In Talladega Nights, where I'm like, I don't know, do with my hands. Natalie, she steps up, she knows that the ass is serving.

[Mary]

And then we left. We got off.

[Nick]

We got off service immediately.

[Mary]

As soon as she got on, we got off.

[Patrick]

What kind of tequila were you guys drinking from the Schottzki?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Was it Vita?

[Nick]

Oh, it was, like, really strong water.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Susie]

Oh, nice.

[Heather]

So it was Vita?

[Mary]

Yeah, it was Vita.

[Nick]

It was.

[Mary]

It was diluted a lot to you know, save money.

[Nick]

No, that was our request. Yeah.

[Mary]

Why are we retiring shaking ass after a second baby? Because, you know, I just.

[Susie]

No, no, no.

[Natalie]

Got it.

[Nick]

No, it's just. What is it about the fans who think Taylor Swift is going to stop making music after she gets married? That's sexist. The mom should be allowed to shake ass and perform their passions. Just, you know, like being a family and having a family with you and being married is like, the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. And what I'm so proud of is how much we, like, we haven't changed our life. I mean, obviously we're very lucky to continue to, like, get help. And we have Natalie's mom, we have our parents. But, like, ever since we got married, Nally has been a. Become more a part of the show. She's done more. She's chasing her dreams. She's the host of a Netflix show. And for all the people out there who think you need to slow down after you get married or have kids, I say fuck that and fuck that. To all the people who suggest that Taylor Swift is going to stop making beautiful music, do we like her new album?

[Heather]

No, I. Okay, personally, there's a bop or a.

[Nick]

Personally, Personally.

[Patrick]

Personally, there's a bop or two, but. Susie, what do you think?

[Susie]

Okay, so this is so bad because I love Taylor Swift. I've been so busy that I haven't had a chance to fully listen all the way through.

[Nick]

But I.

[Susie]

The few that I've listened to, I like. I feel like she's getting a lot of. Okay, let me pull it up.

[Natalie]

It's not the redwood one.

[Susie]

Oh, no, I love the redwood one. I'm jamming to Travis Kelce's Pee Pee. Okay. I just am, like, am riding it. I liked it.

[Natalie]

You're riding it?

[Susie]

Not his. But I'm writing the song.

[Nick]

Do you think she was, like, tricking people when she gave us centimeters instead of inches?

[Mary]

No, she's. Wait, what did you say? The song is 2 minutes and 30 seconds. So people are like, oh, 23 centimeters. What is 23 centimeters? 9 inches.

[Nick]

Wait, explain to me the 8.

[Susie]

No, that's gotta be it.

[Mary]

The song is 2 minutes and his.

[Heather]

Dick is 9 inches. I don't know.

[Mary]

Well, what is 23 inches? You think his dick is 15ft?

[Nick]

So wait, wait, wait. So there. So just to be clear, there's one song on this album that's 2 minutes and 30 seconds with no other.

[Mary]

No, it's a wood song. It's about his dick. It's about it is about his dick. It's about Travis.

[Nick]

Oh, okay.

[Mary]

Very clearly about Travis. And she's, like, talking about him.

[Natalie]

He's like, it's the redwood that opened up her thighs.

[Mary]

It's the redwood that opened up her thighs.

[Nick]

That's Taylor, literally.

[Mary]

And it's 2 minutes and 30 seconds, and that is equivalent to 9 inches. And God bless her soul, really.

[Susie]

But, yeah, I'll be praying for her if that's the case. Actually, I have a thought.

[Nick]

What?

[Casey]

Mary.

[Heather]

She's 35 and couldn't say the word dickmatized. Matized.

[Nick]

She's also, like, too classy and too Easter eggy to just come out and say dick, Matt.

[Heather]

Okay, but she can call Charli XCX a coke addict.

[Mary]

But did she say that?

[Natalie]

That was kind of wild.

[Mary]

But did she say that?

[Patrick]

I just think every song sounds like another song.

[Heather]

She said, you call me Boring Barbie when the cokes got you brave. And it's like, okay, you called your. She just basically called herself Boring Barbie.

[Natalie]

And didn't Charlie, like, write some A song?

[Heather]

Sympathy is a Knife, which is literally about, like, being insecure when you're, like, around someone who, like, has so much more, like, clout and power and experience than you and just feeling, like, really insecure running in that circle.

[Susie]

Okay.

[Heather]

And that's what the song's about. And then Taylor Swift comes out with being like, oh, you. You're coke. You do coke.

[Susie]

Honestly, Shade, I love it. She's getting messy. Get her on the show. Yeah.

[Justin]

Get her on the show.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

It was like a soft maybe for Taylor, for us, but now that she's talking her shit, we were ready to have her, literally.

[Susie]

I have questions I'm into, like, this is stuff I've heard. I feel like I keep seeing a lot of, like, Shade. I also feel like there was really no other way this was going to go because she was so overhyped. Like, she just had the biggest two years of her life. And then people who weren't swifties, like, kind of tagged on for, like, the trendiness of it. And so then these people are, like, listening to the album and if you didn't really have an appreciation for her, then you're kind of like, oh, this is kind of weird because, like, as a swifty, like, we're kind of weird and, like, she's kind of weird. And so then I feel like if you weren't really tapped in, you're now seeing everybody else, like, critique it, and you're kind of like, oh, maybe this isn't cool. Anymore. Yeah, it's not for you. So I. I mean, I get it. Like, I do think some of the songs sound similar to other songs.

[Patrick]

Swifty to Swifty. Like, that's the one thing where I'm like, this for sure. Sounds like Victoria's Secret. That's one of her. I think the Life of the Showgirl sounds like it. Like, there's songs that you hear it and you're like, I've heard this before.

[Susie]

Jackson 5.

[Patrick]

Yeah. Very oddly similar to some songs, which might be the point, I don't know. But she's also, like, sued other people for using her, like, sound. So, I mean.

[Natalie]

But also, like, she's like, come out with, like, 50 songs. I feel like in a year, not all of them are gonna be, like, a plus, a bop for everyone. True.

[Susie]

You know, that's so true.

[Mary]

I also think a lot of people. I saw someone talking about this, saying that, like, a lot of people are comparing this album to, like, Folklore and Evermore and saying, like, how is this the same person who wrote these songs? And it's like this person was. The person was saying, like, Folklore and Evermore came out in, like, 2020 when no one was getting any music. We were all, like, stuck inside. We thought we were gonna die. And she literally gave like, no. There was no press. There was no marketing. It was just like all of a sudden, boom, an album's out. And it was like, oh, my God, we've all needed this. And now there's been, like, so much hype around this. There's been like a live countdown and. And I think people just, like, made their expectations, like, some personal expectations, and Taylor did what Taylor's going to do, which is like, not what you expect. And I think, honestly, some there. It's like a fun. It's a fun album. Like, I definitely don't read into the lyrics as much as other people do. And maybe that's why I'm like, I don't know. It's kind of like a fun song to sing.

[Nick]

I mean, some people have too much time on their hands. Like, I mean, I thought we'll get into it, but this. This episode of OC Was one of my favorite of the season. And the fact that there's a whole ass for Rich, I'm assuming mostly white women to walk in, break some pots and pans, only to glue them back together is the most, like, you have too much fucking time on your hands business I've ever fucking heard of in my life. Anyway, we do have a great episode lined up. For you today, Obviously, Love is Blind is out there. It's making waves. It's a really fun, messy season. And we got some cast members for you this episode. Fan favorite Patrick will be joining us as well.

[Mary]

Favorite.

[Nick]

I feel like he's kind of a fan favorite. People like him, love him anyways. I do. I'm a fan.

[Heather]

I like Patrick.

[Nick]

He is with us. He'll be joining us momentarily as well. Is his. I guess his ex. His lying ex. I don't know. I think she's lying. Casey a little he said, she said of how things went down. She was like, I love you. And then talking to producers, being like, I can't. Anyways, we'll hear from the horse's mouth, both of them. Also Blake, who went home, he. He stopped by to give us a little bit of insight. I was just kind of fascinated about like, what causes someone till they just be all in. In the pods and then like, something tells them, I got to get the fuck out of here.

[Mary]

Probably your number one leaving would do it for me.

[Nick]

Yeah, there's that. Anyways, so we got some sound bites from Blake as well. It's a jam packed Love is Blind episode and I'm glad we're. We're out of Minneapolis, no offense, and we're back in the Denver because people are a lot messy, er, out in the West. You know, I'll say maybe it's all the weed. Then we'll be getting into some Housewives, a little O.C. a little Miami reunion, apparently. Adriana and Julia, the scandal.

[Natalie]

Crazy.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Before we get into Love is Blind, I'm gonna go on my soapbox for a little bit just to remind people the Internet is not real and the Stay off your phone. And Nally always hears me talk about this. But, like, if we have a common enemy as a human species, it is the algorithms people. I just want you to remember I caught up with my friend over the weekend. I had a girls night. I had my friend come over and it was a type of friend that we're very close and we feel safe having conversations. And so the conversation started something like this. Well, my algorithm is showing me this. And then he would reply, well, my algorithm's showing me this. And honestly, that really gave context to our conversation because, like, just remember, like, when you go outside and you're engaging with people, like when you're on your phone, it's just. It's a totally different universe. It's not real life. And people talk about like online and what people are saying online as if like, it's the real world and that's not the case. People say whatever the fuck they want with their thumbs. It's fucking crazy. Like, get your kids off your phone. Like, be off your phone. And like, people are just becoming zombies. And if you don't have the self awareness to like, the shit that you feel when you're on your phone versus the. The shit like you feel when you're meeting humans at a coffee shop or like going to a game and interacting with people, whether it's just like people who root for the same team as you or against the same team, it's just like, those are just humans being human. I think we just have to remember that a little like, just reminder is we talk about Love is Blind because obviously we have some great guests going to talk about their experience. And some of the vitriol that people say, like, the same people who are like, talking shit about these cast members are the same people who would walk up to them in person and say, I'm such a fan, and asked to take a picture. I just think as a society, we have to remind ourselves that our. Our common enemy is the algorithms we're being fed. Just. Just your phone is. It's the Matrix. You are tapped into a whole different universe when you're on your phone and so are your kids. So just remember that. And that's just my soapbox. Just. And it was a great, like, my. We're like, well, my algorithm showing me this. And it was that way because we weren't speaking from a place of like, well, this. I know this, and I know this. It was more like, well, this is what I'm being fed and this is what I'm being made to believe. Anyways, that's my soapbox. Before we jump into Love is Blind. Whatever.

[Casey]

Wow.

[Susie]

I needed that advice today, guys. I was getting some heat over the weekend. Well, well, honestly, I. I posted some pictures. I was in Sundance in Utah. Was so fun.

[Nick]

Like, Sundance is going on this weekend.

[Susie]

No, no, no. I just was in Sundance. It's like an area. It's like. It's like it's an actual place. Yeah. It's 45 minutes away from Park City, where Sundance Film Festival is. But I happen to be in Sundance. And yeah, people were like, coming for me. People kept DMing me saying, you're getting too much work done. What are you. You're ruining your face. And I was like. I was like, I literally haven't done anything. I'm actually just a little under the weather. I've dyed My hair back to my natural color and I didn't have a ton of makeup on and I'm like, I just have a really big face and I was a little swollen and I was wearing my hair different. I was like, oh my God. Like, so many people were so mean about it. And I was like, this is my echo chamber, though. It's my. I guess it's my algorithm. People were just really taking a dagger to my heart.

[Mary]

It's like when we had a river, you know, one week old newborn at home, not sleeping and everyone was like, nick looks so old and tired. It's like, yeah, we're not sleeping. We have a new.

[Susie]

Literally, yeah, fuck a duck.

[Nick]

I'm like in dad mode.

[Susie]

Like, yeah, but it's hard when you, like go online. I mean, people can just say anything and you're like, oh my gosh. Like, you think I'm getting work done, but like, I'm actually just aging and a little swollen right now.

[Nick]

Like, I'm old enough to remember, like, when text messaging became a thing. Like when, you know people. I had my first cell phone in college when it was like a thing to even have a cell phone. And you were paying 10 cents per text. Like, I'm that old. And when text became really like part of like mainstream communication, like when I was dating, like in college, like girls I knew that were like shy and like very demure would like text things like, do you want to fuck? Like, I'm like, huh? Like, you know, like that the disconnect with your phone, you know what I'm saying, It allows people to just say whatever the fuck they want because it's like you would say something on it via text, but in person, face to face. You would never have the guts. And it's just like everything's in short form, clips. It's why I actually love what we do because at least, you know, we are a part of the Internet. But we're in long form and we provide context and things like that. So it's just like, I don't know, it's just something to remember when you're feeling rage and you're on your phone. I don't know. And Susie, you look beautiful.

[Justin]

I hope I can.

[Susie]

You look great. Thanks, guys. This is actually pushed me to get work done because I've been wanting to. So I'm like, I'm like, bro, okay, so if you're going to tell me I have it already, then I'm actually going to go get a facelift.

[Nick]

What were you. So did you did you have fun in Utah? Like, you wanted Mormons?

[Susie]

No, I literally did. I went to lunch at this place called cubbies, and, like, 50. 50, like, half the people in Utah were like, you have to go and have. People are like, it's a chain. We went, and I thought it was, like, pretty, Pretty. Okay, good. But we ran into Demi. She just had left.

[Nick]

Mormon wives.

[Susie]

Mormon wives. Demi. Yeah. Speak about somebody. Perfect, flawless. No one has anything to say. Her face was literally stunning. I was like, wow, that is. It's unreal.

[Mary]

Did you talk to her?

[Susie]

Gorgeous. Yeah, we talked to her for a while. She was doing the cozy earth, like, in bed rot challenge.

[Natalie]

Did you see that?

[Susie]

No, I didn't see any of. So we just got, like. She had a wonderful experience.

[Mary]

Didn't Jesse have something to say about her doing the cozy Earth?

[Natalie]

Yeah, they were.

[Casey]

They're.

[Natalie]

The women are back, and they're beefing. Demi was asked by our favorite lie detector operator from Real Housewives of Orange county and the Lisa Vanderpump interview if she thought that Jesse was a good colorist and doing extensions, and she said no.

[Patrick]

And wasn't Whitney the one that asked her the question?

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Yes. And then Jesse has been responding from, like, being inside her G wagon, saying, just chilling in my G wagon instead of competing for 25,000 in a bed. Okay, that's enough for being petty or whatever.

[Nick]

Is this a preview of season three or something?

[Mary]

They always get it revin right before the season.

[Natalie]

I was gonna say, these women are working. Show up to work. Yes.

[Susie]

Hustling.

[Natalie]

Because I'm already back invested. And then you've got Michaela taking pictures at Dancing with the Stars with Whitney.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Like, the competition that you've always wanted. I was like, I don't know if you're friends if you're not, but I'm following.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But yeah, no.

[Natalie]

Demi is coming for Jesse's business yet again.

[Susie]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, t. I didn't even realize that she honestly seemed to have, like, a new lease on life. When I saw her, she was very, like. I don't know how to describe it. She was like, I feel like I've learned a lot, and, like, I'm excited. Like, I'm excited to see next seasons to meet, because I'm, like, curious. She just seemed, like, enlightened, I guess.

[Natalie]

It just seems like from the buzz around it that she's leaning into the villain role, which, like, I think I kind of would have appreciate versus, like, I don't know, being shocked by it.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

But I'm also like, will there be a new villain this season?

[Susie]

You know what? Something she said, which, like, I appreciated. She said something like, I. I think I've really fought to be understood, and I think moving forward, she's gonna try to understand and. And kind of. I don't say surrender, but, like, not fight so hard to be understood, because sometimes you're just never gonna be understood. It was something along those lines, and I'm, like, butchering it. But the way she said it, I was like, oh, my gosh. I really respect that. I really liked the way she. She came across, and she was so lovely in person.

[Nick]

I mean, I've always enjoyed Demi's company and having her on the show, and obviously, she was caught up in some st. That, you know, the information we got, you know, some of it we didn't, like, fully understand. But, yeah, my experience with her in person has been nothing but positive. So I'm. I'm glad she's back on season three and excited to see how things unfold. But it'll. It'll be interesting.

[Mary]

Well, I have got to talk about love is blind because there's been so many instances in this show where I am so icked out, Cringed out. Cannot believe people say this in general, let alone on a television show. I think starting with Mike, who said to Sparkle Megan that he can't wait to have the hottest, sexiest kids. That felt weird and definitely uncalled for.

[Nick]

You don't even know what each other look like, people.

[Mary]

Don't get me started on Mike. I'm calling your kids sexy.

[Susie]

Yeah. Yeah, don't do that.

[Nick]

Is weird.

[Susie]

That was tough.

[Heather]

I think Sparkle Megan made the right choice.

[Mary]

No, I think so, too.

[Natalie]

Well, wait, no.

[Mary]

The worst part for me with Mike was when he was talking about how important it is to stay in shape and, like, how crazy it is that Jordan's kid has diabetes to Sparkle Megan, whose father passed from diabetes, and she's.

[Heather]

Just sitting there, like, that was really messed up.

[Mary]

Anybody who's, like, preaching fitness to me is like, okay, cool.

[Casey]

Bye.

[Susie]

Also, type 1 diabetes has nothing to do with, like, your athletic or, like, physical abilities. It's like you're literally born with it.

[Heather]

Do you want to know? Really pissed me off.

[Natalie]

What pissed you off, Mary?

[Heather]

Take a wild guess. I'm gonna say it was Nick and Ann. As you know, it's really funny because Nick and Annie's whole thing was that they were Christian. And as we saw, Nick, literally out of nowhere, broke up with a girl he had just told that he loved. Because she wasn't Christian, because she had, like, a lot of complicated things going on with her after her mom died.

[Susie]

Right.

[Heather]

And then to go and be like, yeah, I don't know if I could support my kid if they were gay, that doesn't seem like pushing forward the love of God to me as someone who is gay and whose dad's a pastor.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I was. I was sad when Annie said that because I. I personally didn't hate her extensions. I know people are roasting her, but not what.

[Nick]

I hated her extensions.

[Patrick]

I was gonna say. I just. She said something very extremely, like, outdated and harmful that, like, it's shocking to even hear it because you're like, who even says that anymore?

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And you're gonna go on a. You know you're being filmed for a TV show.

[Nick]

Right.

[Heather]

Also, like, in the world as you know, we're saying that a lot of people are being, like, radicalized by their algorithms right now. And, like, one of the things that's happening is that, like, the queer community is facing a lot of, like, like, very, very radicalized thoughts around our existence, and it's just, like, kind of shitty to see that on tv.

[Patrick]

I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt and went to her Instagram page to be like, you know what? Maybe she, like, said something she didn't mean, and she's gonna clear it up and absolutely nothing, which I think is more important.

[Nick]

She hasn't said anything.

[Patrick]

Not a single thing. I mean, you can look at her comment sections, and it's clear that, like, people aren't happy with what she said on all sides of the spectrum.

[Justin]

It just.

[Patrick]

You don't hear that nowadays.

[Heather]

Also, maybe if she was friends with gay people, she'd have better ext.

[Patrick]

Is what people are saying.

[Susie]

That's amazing.

[Heather]

Also, always down for people to learn and grow and change and, like, open up to love in their heart. To, like, always. But, yeah, that sucked to see.

[Nick]

Yeah. It would have been very easy for her to acknowledge her ignorance and insensitive comments, but so disappointing that she hasn't addressed that.

[Susie]

I do appreciate what you said. Somebody said something about being friends with gay people, and I'm like, honestly, like, maybe. Maybe she does need a gay friend. You know what I mean? Like, somebody who. I just feel like when you're kind of what Nick was saying earlier, like, your algorithm just, like, feeds you. It's an echo chamber. And I'm like, if she has no. Like, if she's never been around somebody, if. I don't know if it's like her culture or like the way she grew up or whatever. It's like, yeah, maybe she needs to get out there and meet some people and open up her mind a little bit.

[Nick]

Their minds by Sparkle Megan to what's his name? The guy she didn't pick. Podcast guy. They actually did ask later, like, what are you wearing right now? And I think that's a question every person in the pod should ask on every date, because I just think you can tell a lot by a person by how they dress themselves. And men need to stop wearing in public. If you want to wear in the comfort of your home khaki shorts and flip flops, have some respect for yourself. Like, if you are. I mean, if a guy showed up on a date and flip flops and. And. And oh, and then Jordan wearing the pink tank top. What. What is. That's disgusting.

[Patrick]

Like, what do was crazy.

[Mary]

It was the pink tank top and the tiniest shorts I've ever seen in my entire life.

[Nick]

Well, Nick's an executive watch dealer and he can't himself.

[Mary]

And then not him saying when they're in Mexico to Sparkle Megan, oh, look at all the Cartier bracelets. And she's like, yeah. And he's like, let me be your Cartier dealer. Like, you don't need a Cartier dealer. You go to the Cartier store and you buy them. Like, what kind of underground scheme, Ponzi scheme are you doing that you need, like, to be someone's Cartier guy. Them on their honeymoon is like, literally my favorite of the sea is like my favorite part of the season. Because it's always when people are like, they, you know, they start living together and it's like, oh, weird. Oh, boy.

[Susie]

I don't see it all. You start seeing stuff.

[Mary]

The whole instance between Joe and Madison.

[Nick]

Madison. That was wild.

[Susie]

Uncomfortable.

[Natalie]

Can I, like, whose side are you on here? Because that's.

[Mary]

I'm on Joe's side.

[Nick]

Neither of them.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Natalie]

Because this was all confusing to me.

[Mary]

He was hammered. He was absolutely hammered. And she's like, first just be like, you're shit faced. Go home, take a nap. I'll talk to you in the morning.

[Nick]

It's like she was acting like he was having a manic breakdown of which she couldn't diagnose. And it was this like, you know, he's hammered. And. And I agree with Natalie in that sense. Why I'm slightly on Joe's side because. And I'm surprised that they showed this. Or maybe it was unavoidable, but you Saw the cameraman through the mirror, right? So when you're watching it the first time you see Madison come in and sit on the bed and you're just.

[Mary]

Like, wake him up.

[Nick]

Why is Joe being so defensive? But now imagine you're Joe and you wake up and there's two 50 year old dudes or who doesn't matter the gender, but like this giant cameras in your face and you're like caught off guard. It's like, you ever wake up from an afternoon nap? You'll never be more delirious than when you wake up from an afternoon nap.

[Mary]

And then add that in with being absolutely shit faced.

[Nick]

Get why he's a bit defensive? I was just wanting him to be like, I'm fucking hammered. I'm sorry, I drank too much. But the reason, but the reason he didn't say that is because he's on camera and he's just like, no.

[Mary]

But also the number one thing people do when they're drunk is being, I'm not that drunk. I'm fine. I'm like, totally good. I know. We had two people who are the most hammer are the ones who don't acknowledge it.

[Nick]

So of course, that being said, he does kind of seem like a bad drunk, 100%.

[Mary]

And that's why he's single.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I'm team Madison.

[Justin]

And all of this.

[Susie]

Yeah, I was gonna say also like knowing her condition because it hit me like halfway through that situation where I was like, he's obviously like blasted. He doesn't wanna say it on camera. And he's like, don't say that because you keep saying like, you're super drunk or whatever. And then I was like, okay, well she, maybe she has chosen this person thinking like, oh, this is somebody that will be aware and conscious and like be able to provide care for me as I possibly lose my vision. And then to see this side of him where he's so drunk on the first night that they're all together and she's like, like, oh my gosh, like this guy's a loser. Like he can't imagine she's like bumps into something and needs help or something. And I'm like, there's so much confidence.

[Patrick]

Too, because he just, he just called her bigger, which I think is like.

[Mary]

A red flag first of all.

[Patrick]

And then like at the whole event, he's flirting with another man while she's like, wait, what? Can you talk to me? Hang out with me?

[Natalie]

No, literally, he was ignoring her the entire time.

[Patrick]

And then when she woke him up, he was like, oh, are you dressed to go out? Like, did you not see me in this?

[Mary]

The whole. He was definitely hammered. That's why he said that.

[Patrick]

Okay. But, like, there's still a little bit.

[Natalie]

Of, like, I'll show in a bikini top.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Like, where are we going?

[Mary]

Why is he getting this drunk? Why is he getting this. Joe, I think, does have an awful personality when he's drunk. He seems like. And. And same with Jordan. They seem like, what I am so grateful that my husband is not. Is a loud, annoying piece of shit drunk. And that is what Jordan and Joe are. It was like Joe just was nagging and picking and thought it was. It was so funny to be like.

[Nick]

Oh, how many guacamole is that?

[Mary]

Your nipples are so dark. You're so. Your teeth smell like. And if I'm Megan, I'm annoyed as fuck with you two. And, like, everyone needs to shut up. And it was interesting. I want. I'm surprised we didn't have any other further conversation about this. I'm surprised we didn't see Annie talk to Nick about it. But when she's kind of, like, yelling at Joe for standing too close to her or, like, touching her or whatever. It was when he was, like, leaning at the bar and she was like, get away from me. Why are you so close to me? Scoot over. You need, like.

[Patrick]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Mary]

Zip it. I'm surprised there wasn't a conversation with Annie talking to Nick about that. Of like, oh, let me tell you what happened at the bar, because I would have loved to hear what Nick would have had to say.

[Nick]

Well, it's also just for context, like, the fact that Joe and Jordan, like, the first thing they got. They did when they got together in a party atmosphere is just. It. Absolutely plastered.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, like, no chill on camera. Absolutely no chill. They were obviously ripping shots.

[Mary]

I think it was showing Megan, like, oh, yeah, he's younger than me.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Susie]

I really liked Jordan up until that point, too, because he was kind of quirky and, like, I just like that he was, like, maintaining his sense of self throughout the thing.

[Heather]

He seemed really genuine.

[Susie]

Yeah, he seemed genuine. I was like, oh, cool. And then that day, I was like, oh, I think she's getting the egg. And I think we are as well as the audience. It was. It was a lot.

[Nick]

This season reminded me of a few things I would like to be canceled. I've already said two of them. Khaki shorts on. Met, flip flops on. Men. Yeah, Men calling their female partners. Dude.

[Natalie]

Dude, seriously.

[Nick]

Stop it.

[Susie]

Okay.

[Casey]

Bro.

[Nick]

Dude.

[Susie]

Yeah, dude.

[Nick]

Like, she's not a. No, sweetie. Honey. Babe. Jordan was calling Megan dude.

[Susie]

Diva dude.

[Nick]

Hate it. It was kind of fascinating to see Anna and Blake leave. Have we. I'm sure that's happened in previous seasons. It seemed to me like it was a whole episode surrounded, like, calling ghost on, like, the episode, like, ghost town or something like that.

[Patrick]

Yeah, there was.

[Nick]

I thought it was interesting. The one thing I. We actually had a chance to catch up with Blake earlier today and asked me a few questions about why he left, and I thought it was kind of interesting. My, my. The big question I wanted to know. It's just, like, I totally get that for some people, they want to leave. Like, it's not for them. But what I don't get is, like, why not just, like, go into the pods and this, like, tell the per. People or person you're dating that, like, hey, this isn't working for me, and I don't think I can get in a reasonable amount of time and just, like, face it. And we asked Blake that question and is like, why? If he had any regrets about how he left, and here's how he answered that question. We've had two people, you and Anna, kind of unceremoniously leave in the pods. You know, certainly understand, like, why it might be, you know, emotionally draining, but the kind of. The manner in which you and Anna left, you know, obviously the episode was called something like ghosting and things like that. I think Anna was even asked by Patrick if she's ever ghosted, only to have her just, like, not show up. But I'd love to just hear from you, just your mindset, like, your feelings of needing or wanting to leave. How did that start? And just kind of walk us through kind of your internal monologue from that moment where things didn't feel right to the time in which you left. And just kind of walk us through the decision process of, like, why you decided to do it the way you did it and not communicate with the people you were dating.

[Blake]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Blake]

I think it was really a couple things. I think going into the experiment, you. You realize we all kind of know what we were signing up for in terms of a content, condensed timeline. It's very, very, very condensed. About nine, 10 days. And so I think all of us, including myself, you go in a little bit skeptical. But I think the benefit of being a subsequent season is you. You have seen this experiment work in the past. Like, there's a proof of concept there. And so you. I think I went in skeptical. But you're holding onto a little bit of hope because it's worked in the past. And you, you go in and a few days in, you're, you're having these fun conversations and you're forming these connections and you start to think like, okay, could this, could this work for me? I think you kind of turn a bit more optimistic. But I could never get that clock out of the back of my head. And so I think as the days ticked by and just knowing where my connections were with Anna and Megan, it didn't feel like I was anywhere close to a proposal.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Blake]

And I think it's communicated and it should be communicated throughout the experiment. If you are not working towards a proposal, you shouldn't be there.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Blake]

And I took that to heart. And so I think I had that in my mind and I truly thought like, hey, this is the best thing for you to do is to remove yourself. And so I thought I was doing the right thing. It was certainly clumsy, but not, not, not intentional at all.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, listen, there's no perfect way to do something you've never done before, especially something as unique as this experience. That being said, do you regret not just like going into the pods and just being transparent with, you know, for example, Meg about saying, hey, I'm not getting here. We, we got three days left, four days left. And you know, you seem great, but emotionally, I don't think I'm prepared to even consider an engagement. But I want you to hear that from me rather than kind of go through this kind of emotional kind of thought process in your head without communicating that to the people you were dating.

[Blake]

Yeah, totally. Fair question. I think in the moment, in hindsight, yes, in watching it back, I'm like, why not just stick around for a few hours and have that conversation? I think in the moment I was so caught up in kind of where my head was at and where I was mentally, emotionally. I think, think this experiment felt very therapeutic in a lot of ways. It was, you know, you are spending all of your time thinking or talking about relationships, memories, good and bad, where.

[Justin]

You'Ve been, where you want to go.

[Blake]

It felt like a very intense, self reflective type of experience. And I know people will roll their eyes and we'll be like, yeah, you're describing therapy and I get that now. But I think in the moment, you know, there are no distractions and so you don't have access to a phone, a computer, no access to the outside world. You are truly spending all your time in the pods on a Date in the lounge with the guys or kind of alone with your thoughts. And I think in those quiet times, I spent a lot of my time thinking about my dad. And that was a little bit. Bit jarring, candidly. Cause I think. I don't know, I think I just assumed going into this experiment, I was 32 at the time. I certainly felt old enough to be kind of in a good spot. Felt like it had been long enough for four and a half years. And so I think when that hit me, it was a little bit jarring to realize, like, hey, you might not be as good as you thought you were. And so I think at that moment, mentally, emotionally, I felt a little bit checked out.

[Nick]

Out.

[Blake]

And so I think when you. You couple that with the timeline, it just felt like there. There's probably no chance of me proposing, and it just didn't feel like it was in the cards. And so I. I think looking back, I was very much in this, like, selfish mindset. Like, where's my head at mentally, emotionally? I wasn't thinking through kind of the departure and how things might unfold after I left.

[Nick]

Boom.

[Mary]

It's fair.

[Casey]

Yeah.

[Susie]

Nailed it.

[Patrick]

He seems like a genuine guy.

[Nick]

Yeah, there we go.

[Natalie]

Clocking it.

[Susie]

That was well done.

[Nick]

I appreciate him, like, owning it like it was. He was kind of selfish, you know, in that moment. I wish he'd get some, you know, more honesty from other people's exits. A lot of people are talking about the. The final scene of episode six between Edmund and Calabria. I think Edmund's a great guy. I think he's catching some heat because.

[Mary]

Apparently, on different ends of this spectrum.

[Nick]

You think he was being manipulative?

[Mary]

I think. Are we shocked that a grown man is throwing a temper tantrum? No.

[Nick]

Temper tantrum.

[Mary]

You don't think that's what it was?

[Nick]

It seemed like an emotional breakdown every.

[Mary]

Time he breaks down. It's not giving. Temper tantrum.

[Patrick]

He is a very emotional person, that's for sure.

[Mary]

But I think if it was a woman in his position who was crying after everything that they didn't agree with, they would be called manipulative. And it would be like, I don't 100%. It'd be like, oh, my God, she's just crying because she wants him to feel bad for her. She's just crying because. And because it's a guy. We're saying, like, oh, but we want men to cry and express their emotions, which we do. But I think he uses it in a way where it makes Calabria feel like she has to be like, oh, wait, no, no, no, that's not what I meant. Wait, I'm sorry. Hold on. Let me hold you. My handsome king, my sensitive baby. Like, she doesn't need to, she shouldn't need to do that. In every single conversation where they don't see eye to eye.

[Natalie]

And it seems like he only freaked out, really, like knowing that everyone else had sex, he didn't care beforehand. And then he was like, wait, everyone? And I'm the only one.

[Nick]

Well, we did, I will say we asked Blake what he thought about Edmund because he's getting this heat at least from, you know, we haven't met Edmund. The Internet hasn't met Edmund. Here's what Blake had to say about Edmund. Edmund seems to be getting a lot of heat for his emotions and crying around. Especially the last scene that we got to see on episode six when they were talking about sex. What is your read on him? Do you find, find his emotions to be authentic or do you think it's something else?

[Blake]

I, I think he is such a pure human being and I hope that comes across. He has such a good heart and what you're seeing on screen, like that was, that was him off screen, like in between, like in the lounge and just off camera. He, he is such a pure human being and I hope people are being kind to him. Yeah, it's. He's a good guy.

[Justin]

He really is.

[Nick]

Some people are, are. Are suggesting that his tears were manipulative when talking about sex. What. What would you say to that?

[Blake]

I don't know if I would say manipulative. I, I would say this entire. I.

[Nick]

Well, I guess this. More specifically, do you feel like the man you got to know? I mean, sure, we've all have been manipulative at times, but do you.

[Justin]

Sure.

[Nick]

Do you feel like knowing him, that he would be the type of guy who would use his emotions to manipulate rather than just he's an emotional guy?

[Blake]

No, I don't think so. I, I never experienced that or witnessed that with Edmund. I think he, he just comes across so genuine and anytime I've had a conversation with him, whether that's in a group or a one on one, I think he. That comes through. And so no, I, I wouldn't say it was manipulative. I, I think emotions were running high in the moment and I think it probably got the best of him. And that entire day watching it felt very stressful. So I imagine being in it was, Was far more stressful.

[Nick]

So that's at least Blake's point of view for context. Calabria. Like, if you listen to Ask Nick episodes and you. You hear me preaching about the difference between hookup culture and dating culture, and you have to, like, treat them differently. Knowing that she's going into this experience, knowing that a wedding is, like, what, a few weeks away? Like, I. It doesn't matter what she's done in the past or her dating history. Like, if. If this whole experience is about making new decisions for yourself and recognizing that your dating life hasn't always worked out and you want to make different decisions. So I say props to her for, like, setting that boundary and saying, like, I don't need to fudge you or have sex with you to, like, know that I'm in love with you or know that we have sexual chemistry, they can round all the bases and not go home. Like, she doesn't need to have sex with a guy to know she wants to marry him. So, like, I think that's awesome that she set that boundary. At the same time, don't you think you could argue that it's slightly manipulative of her or at least emasculating to say she's the one who brought it up. She's like, how does it make you feel that all the other guys have had sex and you haven't? Like, the way.

[Mary]

I think that was emasculating. I think that was a genuine question, because I don't think either of them.

[Nick]

Are being manipulative, to be clear. But don't you think people could take it that way?

[Mary]

No.

[Susie]

Wait, do you guys remember when she brought up saying, I think sex means more to you than it does to me, and I want to protect your heart? I think in that moment, I was like, oh, is she kind of seeing some of what we're seeing as of the audience, where we're kind of, like, a little bit concerned with some of his behavior? And is she like, oh, I don't know that I want to, like, go have sex with him, Because, I mean, I know I'm that way. Like, if I'm having sex with somebody, I'm emotionally connected to them. So I. I don't know. I feel like maybe she's kind of clocking in on some of the behavior. Maybe she's trying to feel it out.

[Patrick]

Do you remember the DC Cast when there was, like, the one couple where he was like, you, you just slept with your boyfriend, like, three weeks ago or whatever?

[Susie]

Yes.

[Patrick]

Like, that's reminded me of where it was, like, her being like, that was a random person, like, a year ago, and being like, but that meant something. And you don't care about me and her being like, this is the end of the conversation. Because, like, you're taking things you just found out, and I'm making it into something.

[Natalie]

Right.

[Mary]

And he did not care at all until she said every couple had had sex. He didn't care. He knew that. He knew that some of the guys had had sex. He only.

[Nick]

He thought that he felt emasculated.

[Patrick]

But that's not on her.

[Susie]

But, like, that's not.

[Nick]

I'm not saying it's on her. I'm just saying that doesn't mean that he was then manipulative. Manipulative.

[Mary]

He started crying.

[Nick]

I also just think we have to all these people Grace for this crazy experience they're all in. And how do they navigate this?

[Mary]

This is the first night that they've ever seen each other in person and spending the night with each other and they didn't have sex. And now he's being like, throwing like, you don't care about me or whatever he said, like, in her face, being like, well, all the other guys did. And, like, what does that say about us?

[Nick]

I just have a hard time believing that his words, that he was consciously crying and that was fake in an effort to, like, essentially gaslight her into feeling guilty. Let me ask you all women a question. If a guy started crying in an effort to get laid, would that work out?

[Heather]

No.

[Susie]

I actually see where you're going with this.

[Mary]

I think there's a way in which when he starts crying, then you start comforting, then you get a little bit deeper, Then there's that emotional level that you kind of go past, and then you start kissing. And then. Yeah, I think it could turn into sex 100% because you. You've, like, crossed this emotional barrier of, like, you're there for this person. But the thing about him is he cries constantly. He cries about stuff that, like.

[Nick]

And you think it's. And you think it's a tactic he is consciously using to. To get his way.

[Mary]

I don't know. I don't know him very well, but what I have seen of him is after that conversation, I don't think there was a world in which tears was a response. And I think because the conversation was around sex, it felt manipulated to me.

[Heather]

I thought it was interesting to compare that scene to the one that they had had prior in on vacation when she was talking about, like, oh, like, if we were at a bar and you saw this guy, like, touch me, like, what would your response be? And he was like, he Basically was like, I don't want conflict.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But then it's like nothing. You wouldn't just say, yeah, he would.

[Natalie]

Do that if it wasn't a hug.

[Nick]

Please be respectful to my lady. Yeah, he could ask nicely.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And I don't quite. I haven't completely figured out how I feel about Edmund yet because he kind of. There's parts of him, like his quirkiness that I'm charmed by and reminds me of a very close friend of mine. But yeah, it was that comment. And then also that in tandem with the way he reacted about sex and started crying, it just felt a little like there's something happening here. And I don't quite know if you're the man for her.

[Nick]

I also wouldn't be surprised the way it was cut together. Sometimes these intense conversations with intense topics really require the nuance in the context. And for a guy who comes across as very emotionally loose and kind of eccentric, I think it could be very easily his behavior taken out of context.

[Natalie]

I just don't understand the jump from, okay, everyone else is having sex to like, I'm too fucking nice. This is what happens.

[Nick]

Well, that's what I mean by editing. To me, that made no sense how it jumped from that. And to me, like, I feel like we're missing a big chunk of that.

[Natalie]

Conversation because it does look like it's. That's what makes it more so manipulative is the fact that it's like all of a sudden we're going into this whole, like, bigger issue that you have with yourself that, like, this is something that constantly happens to you while she's sitting here being like, yeah, I don't need to have sex with you tomorrow, but we're gonna spend the rest of our lives together. So.

[Nick]

So I, I can't say for sure because obviously I wasn't there when it was edited. But I would bet a lot of money we're missing a few sentences or maybe 10 minutes of what was probably like a 45 minute conversation slammed together for like heightened emotional moments. And. And we're all like drastically reading into it. I don't know, it's just like he's clearly had some emotional trauma as a young child. And like, I don't know. Again, this is like, like this whole show and this whole experience for these people is an emotional pressure cooker. Some handle it better than others. I'm just a little reluctant to, like, jump to conclusions, to like, suggest that he's some sort of gaslighter who uses tears.

[Mary]

I'm not labeling him as anything. I'm. I'm saying that from what I watched with editing, content, all that stuff, but from what the producers and the editors and Love is Blind company gave me to watch, for sure, I saw a man who was manipulating a woman. That's all. I think maybe you can disagree, but that's what I think.

[Nick]

I guess it could turn into that, but I find I. I would think that most women would get the ick from a man crying, and. And most men aren't getting laid after.

[Mary]

I think, because he cries all the time. She definitely is not gonna. It wouldn't get him laid. And I think if there was a valid reason for him to have gotten upset, then I think it could have brought them closer and could have, like, unlocked a new level of vulnerability, which then could have led to some, like, fair enough. Who do we think is gonna make it?

[Natalie]

Honestly, I don't. I don't know of anyone.

[Susie]

I really don't know.

[Mary]

Still really, like Jordan.

[Nick]

Yeah, this I know. There's gonna be one couple that gets married.

[Mary]

I mean, we watched the. The preview for the next batch where Anton and Ali are together, and he's like, is this, like, what you think saying, like, is this what your days off look like or your working days look like, with clothes everywhere and makeup everywhere?

[Casey]

And she's like.

[Mary]

She's like, yeah.

[Natalie]

She said that from the jump, though, so he has no one to get mad at but himself.

[Nick]

She's like, do you think she's more of a slob or he's more of an OCD guy?

[Natalie]

She said from the jump that she goes, I'm messy, and you might have to pick up after me.

[Mary]

What else did you say?

[Nick]

There's a difference between a messy person and a disgusting person.

[Mary]

What else did she say about, like, him afford him being able to pay for.

[Nick]

I feel like, yeah, we're gonna get. We're gonna get.

[Mary]

I think there's some goodness coming into the next batch for sure. And it's always fun when they all see, like, the other people they almost chose or, like, you know, yeah, that's my favorite episode.

[Natalie]

Or it's just like, oh, if there was even a tiny crack in the foundation, let alone gaping hole, it's gonna. It's gonna crack open. At this night.

[Nick]

The biggest, I think, controversy was the breakup between Patrick and Casey, and we have them both for a little he said, she said. But before we. I'm just curious, you guys, opinions about the situation. What do we think? We obviously have already talked to Patrick and Kasey without giving too much away, what is your, what is your take on each person?

[Patrick]

I mean my take in the name of Taylor Swift is. It's a story that we know all too well.

[Natalie]

I get it.

[Patrick]

Taylor talked about it in the D.C. season. Like I'm half Asian, half white. I know that reality of where like there is, is a stigma or that Asian people face where it's like the second you know they're Asian, like they're not seen as attractive. And I think he said it on camera. Anna admitted it too. And like Casey assured him that she doesn't care and maybe she doesn't care, we don't really know. But then I can see his reaction where then he finds out she kind of did like a double sided in the show in the episodes of like, I'm just not obsessed with him, just.

[Nick]

Justin, I'm curious is obviously who's someone who is Asian and, and, and feels this stereotype in, in reality, right after they got engaged. No, right before the reveal, they, they were interviewing Casey and I don't know if you clocked this and maybe I'm reading into it, but she goes, she's like, I know he's Asian. And then she like grimaced like, like it's almost. She was like, I know he's Asian. Like, did you or am I reading into it or did you, did you feel that from her? And, and, and were you surprised by how she handled.

[Patrick]

I mean, I don't want to label her, but I, I do think, and I'll be clear too, like I'm half white, so I think I privilege a little bit differently from people that are fully Asian. But I think she wanted to tell herself that she was into Asian people. And she did say like, you know, my brother is dating an Asian girl or like this and that. And I think so. I think she wants to reassure herself and I don't think she's intentionally trying to like discriminate, but I mean you see things like that. And she literally said like, he deserves someone that's obsessed with him and that's not me. And they didn't really talk outside of literally seeing each other for the first time.

[Nick]

Yeah, it was interest when, when Patrick revealed his, his ethnicity, it wasn't like, oh, cool. You know, it was like, oh.

[Mary]

And it was just so weird. Like you could tell he was hesitant and like if, if someone is like being like, especially on this show, but like, even in general, if you're like, oh, asking someone to talk about their trauma and they're hesitant in any Sort of way. I would always be like, you know what, at your comfort level. Yeah. Like, we don't need to get into it. It. We don't need. Like, it's fine. I'm here for you whenever you're ready. Like, don't rush it. She's like, I need to know. Give it to me. Lay it out on the line.

[Nick]

All right, well, you've waited long enough for Patrick and Casey. So they are up next. Little he said, she said action. And here we go, starting with Patrick.

[Mary]

Well, if there's one baby item that we will use until the end of time, it will be the nanit baby monitor. This is a product that I have recommended to to all of my expecting friends. It is a product that honestly is just unmatched. It's a baby monitor with crystal clear video and two way audio so you can see and hear your baby from anywhere at any time. It provides parents with personalized insights and smart notifications to understand their baby's development and needs like never before. Like telling you exactly how long your baby slept for and predicting when their next nap should be with sound, motion, cry and cough detection. Nan it tells you precisely when and why your nap needed.

[Nick]

It really gives parents the peace of mind that they want when their kid is napping. Also, any busy parents out there. If you're someone who unfortunately has to travel for work or you're away, even when you're at work, you can see when your kid's napping, even. Even if it's just to feel a little closer to your child, especially when you don't get to see them. The camera, like Natalie said, is amazing. It gives you that peace of mind, you know, every parent will know that feeling of just like making sure they're breathing, you know. And when it comes to the nanit, you can zoom in and see that little belly just kind of go up and down. And it really gives parents that. Again, I can't say it enough peace of mind that we're all looking for.

[Mary]

One of my favorite things is that you can listen to them napping. Whether it's you have a sound machine in the background or it's just them sleeping in silence, but you can listen to it while you're on a phone call, watching a movie. Whatever you're doing on your phone, you can still always hear your baby. And that is what we're all looking for. Nana is truly the one baby item we cannot live without. Right now, Nana is offering 25% off just for our listeners. Get 25% off your first order with code BABY25, go to nanit.com and use code BABY25 to save. That's N-A-N-I-T.com with code BABY25. Symbiotica is for anyone who's doing all the right things but still doesn't feel their best. Because true wellness starts at the cellular level. With science backed high absorption supplements designed to travel with you and work with your body, Symbiotica helps you feel more like you. Obviously, Nick and I are constantly on the go back and forth between LA and the lake house and just always traveling. And it's so hard to stay on a routine, especially with supplements or any kind of vitamins. And so with Symbiotica, they're the easiest little travel packets. I throw them in my purse. You can throw them in a carry on or in a backpack. Whatever it is, it takes 30 seconds to get your nutrients.

[Nick]

Before Symbiotica, I always tried to be on various supplements and vitamins that help me stay and be healthier, but I always just like got away from it, you know. And those travel packets really help you remind you to stay consistent because without consistency, taking supplements like this doesn't have the desired effect. But with Symbiotica, they make it so easy to stay on track and help you meet your wellness goals.

[Mary]

They have a formula to support your health goals, everything from energy, digestion, immunity and mood. Symbiotica is one of the most trustworthy brands out there. They never compromise on quality and sourcing. Their products are freed from seedles, preservatives, toxins or artificial additives. It's something you can taste and feel in every packet. So we're going to make it easy for you to start with a special discount. Go to symbiotica.com v I a l l to get 20 off plus free shipping. That's c y m b I o t I k a dot com v I a l l for 20 off plus free shipping. What's softer than cashmere and warmer than wool? It's not a riddle. It's an alpaca hoodie. And we had to check it out for ourselves after hearing some of our favorite podcasters talking about Paca Pakka Mix performance apparel from Alpaca Fiber, one of the world's most sustainable natural fibers. Their best selling hoodie is softer than cashmere, warmer than wool and breathable. I can't wait to wear my Packa at the lake because obviously it's Wisconsin. It's getting cold. It's getting cold. Really early and the Paca is lightweight weight, but it's still cozy. It doesn't stretch out, it doesn't pill, and somehow keeps me warm when it's cold and cool when it's hot. Basically, it adapts to wherever life takes you. This hoodie is built for real life. It's thermoregulating, odor resistant, durable, and made to last. Each one is handcrafted in Peru by artisans who stitch their name into the tag. A personal signature of quality and care. The women's hoodie is incredibly soft. It's naturally stretchy and made to last. It's warm without bulk and it's breathable without sweat. It's slightly longer in the back and a beautiful rib stitching detailing on the side body. So if you want to feel that same comfort, you've got to check out pack everything.

[Nick]

That packet it has I'm loving, especially in these. Cozy. As the fall comes, I know I'm gonna be lounging. Really looking forward to wearing my Packa hoodie and their ultra light crew up at the lake. It's naturally soft, super stretchy and made to last. You gotta check it out. It's super comfortable. If you're looking for something casual, stylish and incredibly comfortable, you gotta check alpaca.

[Mary]

To grab your Packa hoodie and free pair of alpaca crew socks. Head to go packaapparel.com V I A L L and use our code V I A L L. That's go P A K A apparel.com V and enter code V I A L L. Patrick.

[Nick]

Welcome to the show.

[Justin]

Nick, what's up? Thanks for having me.

[Nick]

How you doing, man? I feel like I haven't asked this question. Wow. But how is your heart?

[Justin]

Oh, I. Right now or. Or when it happened?

[Nick]

Well, both. Let's. Let's take. Well, first of all, how are you doing right now? I mean, we know as someone, you know, has been on reality tv, there's filming it. That's just chaotic. It's very stressful, obviously. Then it's released. Released. I'm sure you guys filmed this probably, you know, over a year ago, but watching it back can be kind of traumatizing and brings you back to that moment. I'd love to hear about how you're doing emotionally right now after watching it back. But then certainly let's, let's get back to that time. We'll want to know some of those details of how that all went down with you and Casey.

[Justin]

Gotcha. Yeah. Right now I'm feeling pretty, pretty decent. I Mean, it's been a few days since it's came out. Um, I've had a lot of love and support from friends and family and the Internet. The Internet has been, for the most part, pretty kind to me, which I'm just like, pretty happy about, pretty stoked about. A lot of people resonate with my story and they've been telling me that they just are like, proud of me and like they felt or feel the same way. And I'm just, I'm happy that it's having a good reception.

[Nick]

Well, that's great to hear. I, I personally really enjoyed watching you. You know, it's, it's tough to be yourself on these types of shows. There's certainly a lot of pressure in these weird and controlled environments. And, you know, for me it felt like you really, you know, were your authentic self. I really appreciate your vulnerability kind of opening up about the things that you struggle with when it comes to dating and things like that, but. So it's really been fun to watch. But, you know, you obviously had some tough luck both Anna, you're, you know, a strong connection. You had. I thought that was a really, you know, cute relationship. And then all of a sudden she ghosted and peaced out. And then Casey, that was this who well, clusterfuck after you got engaged. And then she peaced out. But I guess let's just start with Anna. How surprised? I mean, obviously you were surprised, but do you feel like you have a better understanding of why she left and chose the way you did? And do you hold any frustrations towards Anna about not necessarily her decision to leave? Because I'm sure it's understandable that this environment's not for everyone. But the manner in which she left was that very frustrating the way she went to about it.

[Justin]

Yeah, I think, like, for me, one of the biggest things for me that I look for in a relationship is resilience. So when, when she's billing, especially because it's a high pressure, hyper accelerated situation, it's. That part is just a turn off as far as like, like, I know the pressure is really high, but I, you know, I would like for you to like, try to fight through that if you really care about somebody. So that part was a little bit of a turnoff, but that's how I felt about that. Okay.

[Mary]

Was it as hard for you to watch back the phone sex scene as it was for us all to watch it for the first time?

[Justin]

Oh, man. I think that part, thinking back on it, I didn't, I didn't really Know what Casey was trying to do?

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Until I watched it and I just kind of realized, like, oh, I see. It's a. She was reeling me back in.

[Nick]

And you picked up on that too.

[Justin]

Yeah, I picked after I. After watching it. I mean, at the time. Time, I'm. I'm. We're like knee deep in this thing. Like, I. I'm not thinking much about intentions. I'm just thinking, like, I'll trust in this girl. We already had a conversation about trust. We. We both told each other our. Our deepest insecurity. So we're like, bonding at this point. And I'm just like, oh, I. Cool. I'm. I'm like down to hang out in person and see where it goes. So it wasn't like, it wasn't as cringy for me just because, like, our relationship was actually, like, more genuine than it seems. Themes that it came out to be. I know there's a lot of scenes that are like, oh, gosh, this is super cringy. Like, oh, man, they're not having the same chemistry as Anna. But her and I had had a lot of chemistry too. So it's. It's. Doesn't make me as cringe as I think a lot of yours.

[Nick]

Well, it's also always important to note that I think the audience forgets right when we're watching it, we see both your faces, and then so because of that, we can judge. You know, the audience projects their opinion on what they think think of each couple. Right. Well, you guys don't get to see each other. And, you know, obviously there's so many conversations you guys are having that we don't get to see. Speaking of that, you know, obviously you mentioned that the kind of the phone sex scene seemed to be a reaction from her feeling like she upset you talking about her ex boyfriend. I thought that was a little confusing. And obviously we know that things are edited and maybe lost in context, but can you walk us through just how she went about actually telling you? Because it really, really, you know, she referred to this person as her ex, but it really seemed clear that this person was very much in the picture. And I was confused because, like, her big thing was, look, I don't want to talk to him at all. And you seemed a little uncomfortable with that response from her. Because I'm thinking, well, if this person was in your life at all, if we are going to get engaged, not that I want you talking to them, but, like, I want you to you, this person's gonna reach out to you. Like, they're obviously waiting for you to get out of the pods. And when they reach out, I want you to, like, set a boundary with this person and make it clear where you stand. And she kind of acted like she, she was even too afraid to like, face the guy.

[Justin]

Yeah, that's a great question. I'm glad you, I'm glad you're reading the situation really well. So this is probably a few days after Anna. Anna left. So.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Justin]

It's just Casey and I, and we don't, we don't have anyone else here. It's her and I. I were slightly trauma bonding. We're having really good conversations and I'm basically just grilling her. I'm just, I'm asking her to see if she, like, really wants to get married. And she's like, I do. You know, I, I, I, these quote unquote boys have been breaking my heart. And Patrick, you seem like a genuine guy who's going to take care of my heart. You seem like a genuine guy who's going to take me to the Nuggets games, take me travel and stuff like that. And I want to. She's like, you just need to try. Trust me. There's that. I don't know if there's a scene where she tells me that, and I'm like, how can I go into this in a distrustful perspective? So I was like, I trust you. Yeah. I was like, if, if you want to do this, then you got to take care of what you got to take care of. When we get back to Denver, I'm gonna trust you to do that because I'm not, I'm not going to tell you to do anything. I don't control you. I don't control that. But I hope that you, you do the right thing. And if, if you do, I'm. I'm be really happy if you. Because. Because that would be awesome. That, that means we're, we're building a trustful relationship. Cause you gotta go into a relationship with trust. If you're not, you're what? Like, what are you doing? Right.

[Nick]

Yeah, I, they did, they did air that part and I actually clocked it because I thought it, I said something to my wife, Natalie. It was like, I think it's weird when someone says, you need to trust me. Is it, is this almost like a demand as opposed to like a request of like, you know, trust is earned? But she was just like demanding your trust, which was just like a weird way to deliver it.

[Mary]

You need to trust me. Is a lot different than you can trust me.

[Justin]

Yeah, that's a really good point.

[Mary]

Also, you were.

[Justin]

That is different.

[Mary]

You were pretty hesitant to. I mean, and understandably so, because this is the complete point of the entire show, but to, like, tell her where your parents are from, and you could really see that hesitation, and you could really see that she felt the hesitation, and yet she still wanted to, like, push and get you to say it. Do you regret saying it? Saying that?

[Justin]

No, she. See, the thing about that scene that is a little out of context is because she's. She's given me her insecurities, and I'm giving my insecurities back.

[Casey]

Okay.

[Justin]

And it's just kind of painting it to where it's like, I'm just being insecure. But in reality, we're trying. We're sharing a lot of emotional info.

[Mary]

Gotcha.

[Susie]

Okay.

[Justin]

I don't. I don't. I don't regret it because, like, for me, I went in the show, and I. I wanted to. To eliminate all factors, but then it got to a point where it's. It's like, my. If I'm gonna ask somebody to marry me, they're gonna have to know my cultural background in order for me to build a deeper connection. Because, like, my mom's from Cambodia. My whole family's from Cambodia. So it's. Meeting my parents would be a cultural shock. So I'm like, I don't think it's fair to, like, ask somebody to marry you if they don't know at least piece somewhat of my background. So that's how I felt about that.

[Nick]

Gotcha. So let's get to the engagement portion of it and all how that all went down. Obviously, the reveal is always, like, wonderfully awkward for the audience. And so it's like this weird moment, but at the time, given that there's always nerves, it really seemed like. I mean, we've certainly. I guess my point is we've seen more awkward reactions and where you be like, I don't know what this person is, not into this other person. But I honestly didn't really pick up on that when you and Casey met. But again, from your perspective, especially now, as you think back, that first reveal where you guys first met each other face to face, was there anything that you now look back and picked up on that might have, like, giving you any, like, clues that she was starting to get hesitant or was questioning how she felt about you?

[Justin]

Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest clue, and I'm glad they showed it, was me walking back into my. My little abode. And I'm. I'm looking back, and she's just not even there. And that. That was the one that kind of triggered the red. The red flag of being like, okay, maybe we need to slow this down. But like you said, we're, like, really caring about each other. I mean, outside of the physical stuff, we're really caring about each other emotionally. So it's like we're hugging each other and we're just like, man, I can't believe I'm seeing you for the first time. And, like, I think a lot of adrenaline is just pumping and we're. We're excited and there. There's still a bond there. So it's like, I. I'm sure she was probably just overwhelmed with a ton of emotions, but at the same time, I'm sure she was like, okay, he's not necessarily, like, my type, so this is, like, a lot because I care about him.

[Mary]

But yeah, was. Was watching it back the first time you heard. Heard that she told producers that she was not attracted to you? Or did she tell you maybe once you got back to Denver? Or did she tell you at any point that that conversation was had?

[Justin]

I love that question. No, I literally did not know that there was background footage until about a month ago.

[Mary]

What happened a month ago?

[Nick]

Yeah, Were you giving a heads up?

[Justin]

Oh, yeah, they just gave me a heads up.

[Nick]

Oh, okay.

[Justin]

But, like, I mean, that's a year and a half later, which is crazy to me.

[Nick]

Wow. Well, speaking of the breakup. Yeah. I mean, it was. I mean, what is your opinion having watched that scene? Because it was just like, you know, I've said this many times. You know, I'm a fan of the show, but love is not blind for me, man. I could never go on this show. Like, you know, physical. I'm not gonna pretend that physical type isn't super important to me. And like, if. If I was on that show and they revealed someone, someone like, I. I would be like, all right, see you later. And it would just. Honestly, I would have appreciated Casey a lot more if she would have just owned it and just said, hey, listen, like, I. I joined this experiment hoping that I could see past physical. I've had problems leading with that, but turns out, no, I'm, you know, I'm more superficial or. Or. Or just like, I care about physical attraction. Sue me. But, like, it was this really hard to walk, watch her lying to you, right? Like, constantly saying, I love you, I love you. And I felt for you in that moment because, like, it's really you know, you're trying to trust, you're a, you're trying to trust someone. You're, you care about this person. You're trying to give her the benefit of the doubt and you're just asking for her honesty. And then every time you're asking, she throws in this I love you. I mean, for all the people who misuse the phrase love box bombing, this seemed to be your typical love bombing, which is using the word I love you is a way to like, manipulate the situation and, you know, give someone a false sense of confidence. In her case, it was, she didn't want to look bad. She didn't want to have you think that, you know, I don't, I don't know what she honestly wanted. Well, I'm looking forward to hearing from her perspective. But you must have been pretty angry watching it back.

[Justin]

For sure. I, I, I agree with you. It's like if you're, if I'm, if I'm not physically attracted to you, it's like so much easier to just tell me rather than like string it on. And I think a lot of people, a lot of people are pretty truthful and honest. A lot of people would have done the same thing that you would do, Nick. You wouldn't do the show and you openly admit you wouldn't do the show. Like, it's, it's, it's okay to like say that, hey, I just tried the experiment. I wanted to see where it was going to go go. It, it doesn't work for me like that. That would be like, way more honorable like for her. I, it's weird because, like, I have to give her a little bit of grace just because, like, we're, we do like, I, I'm really certain we like, pretty much we do care about each other. And she's like, trying not to break my heart because she cares. I, I think she really cares, but she can't like, come to the conclusion that like, this is not going to work out. She, she can't, she can't tell me, and it's so hard for her to tell me. So I think it's just a lot of whatever she's dealing with. And I think that's what happened.

[Mary]

It was tough because we were watching with Nick's father, my father in law, and the scene, you know, obviously we watch her say to the producers, like, whatever she says, and then goes back to the two of you where you are asking her, like, do you just don't, if you don't want to go to Baja, like, That's fine. We'll just go back.

[Nick]

Back.

[Mary]

And Nick's dad was like, he's just, wow. He's really just not picking up what she's putting down. Like, he's just not getting it. And Nick was like, no, she's lying to him. Like, she's not telling him the truth. And so that's why you were like, oh, we'll just go back to Denver. It's fine. You don't. She said several times, like, I just don't want to do the show.

[Nick]

It's about the show because again, again, the audience, we. We casually watch it. And my dad was kind of taking for granted that they're cutting back to scenes of Casey talking to producers. And, like, in our subconscious brain, we think that you're. You. You also have the benefit of seeing that, Patrick, and, you know, knowing how this all comes together if, like, my heart went out to you. Yeah, I. I really want to know from Casey, because, listen, I get it. Like, it's. It's tough. It is tough to deliver bad news to someone, but I'd be willing to bet that Casey has dated men that have been just as. As dishonest and. And not as truthful about their feelings towards her. And I bet she got really mad at them for not just being upfront and honest. And I'm wondering if she, you know, if she would want someone to treat her the same way she treated you, Patrick.

[Justin]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's. That's for her to answer, but yeah, I mean, I'm glad you read the situation well, Nick. I mean, you. You hit it spot on. I think she just. She just didn't handle it the right way and. Yeah.

[Mary]

Have you spoken to Casey since?

[Justin]

I know, and I guess you'll have to see the teaser next week. As far as what actually happened afterwards.

[Nick]

You haven't seen her in person since filming, period?

[Justin]

No, I. I did see her. I saw her. I saw her right when I got back. Not in person, though. Or not. Not one on one. I'm sorry. I asked for a conversation. I asked for a one on one thing. There was a lot of pressure because a lot of the cast members were already back and they wanted to hang out, they wanted to see us, they missed us, and we literally just got back, and I was just like, hey, let's have a conversation before we see everyone. And she was like, I need time. I need time. What's up?

[Nick]

What did she say when you requested that?

[Justin]

She just said that she needed time.

[Nick]

She. She wouldn't Even give you the face to face.

[Justin]

Not even a phone call, man. So.

[Nick]

Wow.

[Justin]

But you'll see. I mean, hopefully. This is like, I'm. I'm explaining it better here because I think I'm pretty upset next, when in the next batch of episodes when I explain it. But, yeah, I didn't. I didn't get a face to face conversation or a phone call. I even requested just for a phone call. I just told her I was like, let's just be friends. Like, let's just like, let's talk it out. Like, well, I asked her, like, whatever is it about me that's like, not made you not want to go to Mexico? And she just gave me the hey, I. I need more time. I need more time. And I was like, that's fine. I was like, can we just have a conversation, a phone call, please?

[Nick]

Because, like, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, when she broke up with you and she's like, jumping into your arms like, it's the Bachelor show. You must have thought there was a legitimate possibility that you guys would get back to Denver and just, like, you know, grab a cup of coffee, maybe just, like, use said, casually be friends and at least be open to, like, exploring a connection outside of a TV show, outside of the pressures of any artificial timelines. But clearly, like, that you found out the hard way that that was not true.

[Justin]

Yeah, but, I mean, it's all good. I think it. I think it helped me in the long run because it made me really do, like, deep inner work as far as how I'm approaching relationships and what I will tolerate, what I accept. So I just went on, like, a really deep healing journey after that, after I had the closure in my mind that this was just the ring around.

[Mary]

So who are you rooting for out of the couples that we have in Mexico right now?

[Justin]

All of them.

[Mary]

Oh, that's nice.

[Nick]

Do you have any favorites?

[Justin]

I love the boys. Shout out to the boys if I can.

[Nick]

Well, let me ask, before we let you go, is there. I'm sure you've followed other online commentary and people's opinions in the interview. Internet can certainly, you know, jump to conclusions of the. Of all the friends that you have on the show, is there any kind of, like, theme or criticism that any one of your cast members are getting that you find to be inaccurate or untrue that you would want to maybe just come to their defense?

[Justin]

Yeah, I. I'm trying to keep up with some of it. I don't. I. I don't want too many People to hate on. On Anna, she. She gave me the respect. Respect of, like, having a conversation or at least reaching out to me, saying, like, hey, do you want to talk? Hey, do you want to get coffee? Can we meet up? So at least for her, I can. I can respect how. How she handled the ghosting and stuff like that.

[Mary]

Do you think it upset Anna when I'm not sure who. Maybe it was Mike who said it, but said something about, like, yeah, well, you don't want to be your sister or your twin or something.

[Justin]

Oh, yeah.

[Mary]

Like, do you think. Do you remember what I'm talking about?

[Justin]

Yeah, I do remember that scene. Yeah.

[Mary]

Do you feel like maybe that would have upset Anna? Did y' all have a conversation about that at all?

[Justin]

I, I, I. I wasn't the one that said it.

[Mary]

No, no, no, I know, but just, like, oh, yeah. I feel like it was Mike or somebody, but just, I mean, I'm sure, like, it.

[Casey]

You.

[Mary]

You were part of the conversation. So I don't know if, like, her being like, hey, the Mike.

[Justin]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I think. I'm not. I'm not sure what she's. I'm not sure what she's dealing with right now. I'd have to have some conversations before I even really know how she felt about the show and stuff like that.

[Mary]

Gotcha.

[Nick]

Okay. Any. Anything you want to leave us with Patrick before we let you go?

[Justin]

Yeah. I just hope the story resonated with a lot of people that have struggled with, like, minor identity crisis. I hope it's inspiring for people to be vulnerable, regardless of their insecurities or whatever. So I just hope that it touched the right people, even though maybe they painted things out a certain way. But.

[Mary]

So if we get a chance to talk to Casey, is there any question you would like us to ask her?

[Justin]

I'm good. You guys can.

[Susie]

You guys can.

[Justin]

You guys can figure that one out?

[Nick]

All right. All right. We'll take care, buddy.

[Justin]

Right on. Thank you.

[Nick]

All right. All right. Well, we heard from Patrick. Up next is Casey. Casey, welcome to the show.

[Casey]

Hi. Thank you for having me.

[Nick]

Well, thanks for coming on. We appreciate you taking the time. You obviously made some waves this season with your appearance on Love is Blind, and more specifically, around your exit, around Patrick. And, you know, certainly, like, we. We love these shows. We love watching it. We know that reactions can be divisive, but, you know, as someone who was caught up in drama, we always want to give people like you an opportunity to just, you know, explain your side of things. Things we certainly know there's a lot of pressure that goes into these environments. And there's, you know, sometimes hindsight's 20 20, for example. Like, we just talked to Blake and he was like, you know, like, after looking back, I would have done it this way. I might have done it differently. So we're looking forward to hearing your point of view about the situation. But just for starters, I'm just curious, you know, watching it back, I guess, do you have any regrets about how you went about. About your experience as a whole on Love Is Blind?

[Casey]

Well, watching it back, I have a lot of regrets. It looks like I have one brain cell going most of the time, but I don't think I would take back how I handled things with Patrick. In the end. I wear my heart on my sleeve. That's how I felt at the time. It's a crazy experience. And no, I don't regret it. Like, a lot of people are like, why didn't you just go to Baja? I think think that probably would have been the worst thing I could have done for us.

[Nick]

I think it makes a lot of sense that if you realize that you weren't feeling it, to just end it. I definitely think that's, you know, might be. Feel harsh in the moment, but the kind thing to do in the long run, I think we're like, I guess just to be honest, and again, we know this is a TV show, but I just want to, like, as a viewer, I'm a fan, so I'm just giving you the fan perspective.

[Casey]

I know.

[Nick]

It just was like, why? You know, I. I've said this a million times. I love this show. I would never do this fucking show because, like, love is not blind for me. I mean, you've seen my wife. She's stunning, she's beautiful, and, well, she has many great qualities. Like, it's not blind for me. And so I think that's okay for people to say. I know there's a lot of pressure, you know, on. On you guys as cast members, but, like, when you broke up with them, it was tough to watch you constantly tell Patrick you love him when you obviously had the back and forth with producers and it was this clear that you were. You were out. Like, you knew that he wasn't your guy. You knew that you weren't going to date him. And I understand if maybe you wanted to soften the blow, but it was clearly confusing for Patrick. And do you at least regret constantly saying, I love you, I love you, I love you while you were breaking up with him in that moment, you.

[Casey]

Know, in the moment, I did think I loved him. And I do regret how I went out that way. Was probably. It was gaslighting or leading him on. But when I talked to producers, I mean, yeah, it's a, It's a show. Like, I didn't fully know what was that conversation was actually going to be played. I would never want to, like, I didn't want to, like, play into his insecurities. The whole conversation was about, you know, what he looked like. And I. I felt horrible. Like, I thought I fell in love with this guy. As far as the goodbye goes, you're surrounded by a ton of producers and cameras and people you don't know. And when he showed up in that moment, I did feel like, frick, am I, like, making a huge mistake here? Should I stay? I felt comforted by him because he was kind of this one person that I thought I really knew. And I did have intentions of, like, trying to date him when I got back to Denver. The as far as, like, being on camera and doing it, we're talking about marriage. Like, we're talking about a huge thing. And at the time I didn't know if, for marriage, if my attraction could grow that much, but maybe come back in Denver, like, see how it goes. Unfortunately, that ended, like, pretty quickly when we got back. So.

[Nick]

Okay, we had a chance to talk with Patrick and he mentioned that when he got back, he. He tried to reach out to you, he wanted to talk with you. He was even open to something as simple as a phone call, but I guess you were just unwilling to even do that. So I'm just curious from your perspective, like, why didn't you at least. Least give him the benefit of a conversation or. Or even a cup of coffee or just like, again, like, totally. I mean, again, I get it. Like, you weren't into the guy, that there's. People are allowed to break up with people. I think that's totally fair. But yeah, I just like, what do you mean by you were open to dating him? Because I guess from him perspective, I think he would be surprised to hear that.

[Casey]

Yeah, what's like, super great about today is there's respect receipts and that's actually not how it went down. He did not reach out to me. I reached out to him. He. We got back on like a Friday and he wanted to have a phone call or meet up immediately. And I was just like, listen, I'm so emotional right now. I just got home. It's not going to be like, the outcome you want. Like, obviously, I'M very emotional person. Look at me. Like, my emotions were all over the place. I was like, let's just give it to, like, Monday or Tuesday, like, I want to talk to you. I'm so glad. Glad I had this experience with you. Him claiming, like, he reached out and stuff. That's just not true. And. And then I heard he went to the group event and said it would have been Anna. And then I was like, this is not my love story. Like, I'm kind of glad I did what I did because watching it, like, you don't really even see us, like, falling in love, which was kind of sad because I kind of wanted to, like, you know, you kind of want to see that part. All I. All you see is like, I'm good at mini hoop. But, like, I just watched and I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I had no idea. He had this, like, what seemed to be a different real love connection with Anna. I mean, I thought we were just us pretty much till the end and then. Yeah, but, like, I wanted to meet up with him.

[Nick]

So you would. You're saying that you wanted to meet up in person? He didn't to want. Want to?

[Casey]

No, he. He at first did want to, but then he text me. Respectfully, he just wants to be friends.

[Mary]

Because you said, wait till Monday or Tuesday. I need some time.

[Casey]

Yeah, Gotcha. Yeah, we unfortunately, like, when we all got back, our group, like, we actually all were pretty close for a while when we all got back and we all were gonna hang out and went out to Denver, and I saw him there, I was like, I'll see you tonight. And then we came talk, you know, Monday or Tuesday. But let's just try to, like, regroup, you know, go see people who know what we went through and we'll talk about it, you know, at a later time.

[Mary]

And what was that night like?

[Casey]

It was not great. Like, he came up to me first thing, he said, like, hey, XY Fe. And I was like, oh, coming out strong. And he was very hurt. Like, I could see, like, we're both. Both just very hurt. I feel horrible. Like, I wanted to find love too. He wanted to find love. It was not a good night. I ended up leaving. I was just like, I'm just gonna let them do their thing. I'm gonna go home. I followed up with him on Sunday. How are you doing? I did not ghost him. I did not respond to the last text because at that point it just felt like something else was going on. And. And turns out it was.

[Mary]

What. What what else was going on?

[Nick]

Yeah, what was. What else was going on?

[Casey]

I guess watching it is just like, oh, I was like, second choice.

[Nick]

Yeah, I can see why you might feel that way.

[Casey]

The experiment didn't work for me. Yeah, I found out, actually. I guess love isn't blind and, like, attraction matters to me more than I thought.

[Susie]

Can I ask a nosy question? I. I know you mentioned there was, like, a guy you were dating before the show. Was he. And he was a tiktoker. Like, are you allowed to name drop or, like, give us a little T. Did you guys rekindle?

[Casey]

No, we didn't. That's like, another thing. I'm not gonna name drop him because we don't need to give him more airtime here. But does he have a big following? I wouldn't say it's like, okay, I don't know. Yeah, but no, I didn't. That's another thing is everybody's like, you got a boyfriend on? I didn't like, at all.

[Nick]

I will say I was a little confused. And I said this to Patrick because. And again, maybe this is just. Just editing. Who knows? But, like, it seemed clear that whether he was your boyfriend, your ex boyfriend, that in some way you were still in communication with him, which is, like, from Patrick's point of view, it, like, it made sense why? Like, he would be uncomfortable hearing that. And it seemed like you were trying to put his mind at ease. But honestly, like, it kind of came across as, like, why wouldn't you. Like, let's say you ended up together with Patrick and love was blind, and you guys, you know, you got back to the real world and you're still together together. Why wouldn't you want to reach out to this person who clearly seemed to be waiting for you, so to speak, to. Just to say, hey, I found love, like, we're done, and, you know, goodbye. As opposed to you kind of adamantly being like, I don't want to. Like, I don't want to talk to him. I don't need to, like, communicate anything to him. What. What did you mean by that? Or why did you choose to go about it that way?

[Casey]

Yeah, I mean, watching it all gives me the act too, but it's. I just didn't feel like I needed to fully talk to him again after all that. The weird part about it is you don't find out you're on this show till a week before you're going. So you are still living your life of, like, I'm dating or I'm talking to People. But, like, am I going to cut everything off that I'm doing in my real life for a. Maybe I'm going to go on this show. Yeah. I guess to say, like, there was communication with him before, after I didn't feel like if I found love, like, he's probably going to find out some way or see it or.

[Mary]

What was the dating show that he wanted you to go on?

[Casey]

There was another dating show that. Well, there was, like, Married at First Sight, which you look at my experience just went, thank God this one at.

[Susie]

Least gave you the opportunity to say, no, I'm good.

[Casey]

Thank goodness. And then there was another one. Gosh. I think it was called, like, International Love. I don't even think it ever went down.

[Nick]

That show exists.

[Casey]

It does.

[Nick]

Is it the one with the soccer players?

[Susie]

Oh, that was good. You should have done it.

[Natalie]

Is that Peacock?

[Casey]

It's a real thing, that show?

[Nick]

Yeah, it's on Peacock.

[Susie]

Oh, yeah.

[Casey]

No, it was that show. Oh, my gosh.

[Mary]

What was going through your head during the phone sex moment?

[Casey]

Gosh.

[Nick]

Yeah. Well, before you answer that question, I want to ask it because, like, Patrick alluded to this. I think he, you know, for some people watching it and Patrick as well, he seemed to take it as watching it back where, like, it followed the conversation about the ex boyfriend, and he suggested that. And, you know, and I think for a lot of people watching it, they thought the same thing, that you were kind of using sex as a way to, like, ease his mind or kind of bring him back into the fold after he was a bit triggered by the conversation about the ex.

[Susie]

Right.

[Casey]

Yeah. If I could take, like, anything back in my life, it would be episode four.

[Nick]

Okay, fair enough.

[Casey]

Like, my family's freaking Mormon and my. My mom works a cute little mall job on the weekends, and they're like, we saw your daughter. Like, oh, so it's pretty embarrassing. I don't know how that was clipped to just, like, being on honest. Maybe I was trying to ease his mind. You're also in a pod for, like, 10 days. You're lonely, horny, you're drinking.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Casey]

You're horny, you're tired. You think you're, like, falling in love with this partner, which, like, hey, sex is a big deal in a relationship. So, yeah, maybe I, like, jump the gun on that. I don't know if it was, like, a way of getting him or keeping him him. It was just kind of how I was feeling at the time. There's a whole sex slash passion day. So, like, it's talked About a lot. Unfortunately, mine just got freaking aired.

[Nick]

Yeah, well, you. You and Nick, he. He seems to be kind of a freak. Oh, yeah.

[Casey]

And Nick, I heard like, yeah, the carpet thinger. Yeah. But yeah, unfortunately that will forever live on Netflix too, so.

[Nick]

I've said worse. My parents have had to endure worse. You'll be fine. Do you. Yeah.

[Mary]

Regret throwing some shade towards Chelsea from a few seasons ago with the Megan Fox?

[Casey]

Yeah, yeah, I'm not really quite sure how to react to that one. I think I was just trying to be funny and, you know, it came off like.

[Nick]

In her defense, I've met her in person and I gotta say, she kind of does.

[Susie]

I see it too.

[Mary]

You believe it more than you believe Nick saying he's the wish. Zac Efron.

[Nick]

Well, and just knowing when you meet people, people always like to like, match you with a celebrity crush. And if, like, I. I believe that people have told her. I told. Told her that after. After meeting her in person, like, you absolutely see it.

[Casey]

No, yeah, I'm sure I had. I actually never even watched that season because when we were going through casting, that season was going on and it was just a little, like, traumatizing. I don't know, for some reason to watch, but everybody was talking about it.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Casey]

Hey, at least they're talking about her. I wasn't saying, like, yeah, it was just a bad, bad joke. I'm not always. You know, my jokes don't always land properly, so.

[Nick]

Anyone else have any questions for Casey before we let her go?

[Natalie]

I think you pretty much covered it.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Anything you want to leave us with Casey before we let you go?

[Casey]

I mean, yeah, it's the craziest thing right now. And I think in the end. End I was truly. I didn't handle it the best way I could have. Or. I mean, you. You just don't really know how to handle these things. And it. It's really hard for me to watch that. Patrick thinks it's like, because he's ugly or something. Like, I keep seeing that everywhere and. And it's sad for me. I was really trying to spare his feelings and his insecurities and I did care about this person. And now, you know, I. I'm the most hated thing right now, and that's fine. But, you know, I think it's just. Would I do this again? Probably not. I thought I. I thought it was going to be a great ex, like, experiment for me and change my mindset on some things. And it just all went. Blew up in my face a little.

[Nick]

Casey. I really appreciate you taking the time. Best of luck going forward or stay off the Internet. It's, it's all temporary. I promise you. It's. It's not real. It doesn't change your life and let you unless you let it change it. So best of luck.

[Casey]

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I love your guys show. I try to take your guys advice too but you know, stay offline.

[Nick]

You'll. You'll be fine.

[Casey]

Awesome.

[Susie]

Thank you so much.

[Nick]

Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye. Built is a rewards program built for renters who want to get more out of where they live. Whether that's through travel, dining or neighborhood perks. Perfect for anyone who's paying rent and wants to turn their largest monthly expense into opportunities for experiences. Bilt helps to earn points at home, in the city and beyond.

[Mary]

If you're paying rent every month without earning anything in return, let us introduce you to Bilt, the rewards program designed for renters who want to earn something for their largest monthly expense by paying rent. Through Bilt, you can earn flexible points that can be redeemed towards hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. But it doesn't stop there. Built is making your entire neighborhood neighborhood more rewarding. You can dine out at your favorite local restaurants and earn additional points, get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios and enjoy exclusive experiences just for Built members every month.

[Nick]

Bilt is turning a monthly expense into opportunity to earn rewards and discover the best that your neighborhood has to offer. Your rent is finally working for you. Earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home by going to joinbuilt.comv I a l l that is J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.comv I a dash make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Well, we've talked about Helix so many times and I got a little story for you. I think you guys are all familiar with Cindy. She is our family friend and, you know, part time housekeeper. And a couple months ago she came and stayed with us. As you guys know, our guest bedrooms have Helix mattresses. And she woke up and she said, what was that? I just slept on. I said, cindy, that's a Helix mattress. And she says, I want one. And I said, cindy, let me hook you up. Well, our busy lives got the best of us and I forgot to hook Cindy up and she called me up the other day and she said she's incredibly mad at me. And I said, why? And she said, you haven't got me a Helix mattress yet. She said she would not talk to me again until I hooked her up with a Helix mattress. It's that comfortable, people. If you break a promise and you let someone know they're going to sleep on a Helix mattress and then they don't, it might ruin friendships, it might ruin relationships, but it also saves them. Natalie and I have been sleeping on Helix mattress for over five years now. All our guest bedrooms have a Helix mattress. Helix has a unique lineup of 20 unique mattresses for all kinds of sleepers. To get a mattress that's perfect for you, all you have to do is go to helixsleep.com answer a few questions about your sleeping preferences and they will hook you up with a mattress that's right for you. And if by some miracle they get it wrong, don't worry, you have a hundred night sleep trial to try it out. Do whatever you want for 100 nights and if it's not the best sleep of your life, you can return it for a full refund. Plus all their mattresses come with a 10 to 15, 15 year warranty depending on the mattress. So you are going to get that best night of sleep. I promise you that. Stop going to mattress stores that are weird anyways. Just order a Helix mattress right now. It'll be delivered right to your door. It's actually fun to open up because it just inflates. No need for box springs or anything like that. To hook up yourself with the best night of sleep you'll ever have, go to helixleep.com v I a l l for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com v I make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixleap.com V I A L L falls here, kids are back in school, vacations are over and it's officially start of cozy season. The weather just changed here at the lake and I the first thing I did was put on my Bombas socks. You know Bombas, the most comfortable socks, slippers and tees you can find made from premium materials that actually make sense sense for this time of year.

[Mary]

I actually just got a pair of their slippers because they are A so chic and so cute and B actually so comfortable. They're sherpa lined Sunday slippers. They honestly make it hard to leave the house like I want to and I actually did. I accidentally, I wore them to the airport because I just could not take off my Bomba slippers. They're so comfortable. And the best part, every item you buy, Bombas donates one to somebody experiencing homelessness. Over 150 million items have been donated thanks to customers.

[Nick]

They also have incredible dress socks for any special occasion. And ladies out there, if your husband is mix matching his work socks, if he's suiting up and looking sloppy on his feet, upgrade your dress socks today with Bombas.

[Mary]

Head over to bombas.com v I a l l and use code v I a l l for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O-M-B-A S.com v I a l l code v I l l at checkout.

[Nick]

All right, what do we think?

[Mary]

For the record, I'm team Patrick.

[Heather]

I'm also team Patrick.

[Nick]

I. I think I'm definitely team Patrick.

[Mary]

I mean, I understand her saying, like, she didn't know that they would air her talking to producers, but you still. But. And then, but then also her telling Patrick, like, the producers are trying to make it seem like it's about appearance and that I'm not attracted to you. And it's like, but that is what you said.

[Nick]

I appreciated her acknowledging that she came across as a little gaslighty. I appreciate her acknowledging that love isn't blind for her. I wish that she would have owned being a little. That misrepresenting her feelings towards Patrick a little bit more than she did because, like, to say that I was in love with him. Then I get again, I get she was probably no doubt very confused, but, like, you knew you didn't want to be with him and just. She could have told him that. But also, people like, chill the fuck out online. Like, you know, know, like, all of you have done some version. You've. You've all been Patrick, you've all been Casey. So maybe just chill the out for all the people are up there saying crazy shit online.

[Mary]

Yep.

[Natalie]

I'm like, you're asking somebody in a course of what, 10 days to spend the rest of their life with someone. Like, it's okay to decide that maybe this wasn't the best decision.

[Nick]

Like, if I were on that show and that wall came up and they weren't, I wasn't attracted to them. I'd been like, no, absolutely not.

[Casey]

Yeah.

[Susie]

I was gonna say, honestly, like, Nick, at least you have the awareness to be like, I would never do the show. But for me, watching it, I was like, I wish I could be there. And I know producers aren't supposed to, like, I mean, they pop. But I'm like, I Wish I could have been a producer and been like, give it a shot. Like, you fell in love with this person in the pod. And like, every single person that comes off this show says the first interaction is not, like, there's not chemistry, it's weird. You're placing a voice to a body. Even if that person is attracted, you're not finding them attractive most of the time. So I wish that she had just, like, kind of given it a shot and maybe that. That could have grown.

[Nick]

Hold on. I hear what you're saying, but like, every season, it starts with, you know, Nick and Vanessa walking and greet the people. And Nick, it's always Nick asking, is love blind? Like, the. The show is based off the question. If it is, it's not. We. We found a bunch of people who are 100% convinced looks don't matter to them. So we're testing it out. That's not how it's fr. Framed is if it is. They're all asking themselves if they can get there. So I don't think there's anything wrong with one or two people being like, yeah, absolutely not. Can't do it, you know, not for me. I just wish she would have just been more. A little bit more upfront and honest.

[Susie]

I agree. I would. I would say, yeah, if she's going to exit, I would say don't blame it on, like, a. I can't do it because the TV show, I would just be like, own this. And I think her not trying to make it about his looks made it worse because then it's like you're hiding it. So it's like you could. She could. Could just say, I fell in love with your heart, but, like, physically, I know I can't get there with you. And it's nothing to do with your ethnicity or whatever. It's just that I'm not physically interested interested in you. And that would have been, like, a great way to say, yeah, exactly.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, obviously, like in. She's. When we interviewed her, she. She recognizes the heat she's getting and she seems to be, like, owning it. And I think it all came down to her just not wanting to look bad in the moment and trying to figure out the best way to say something, knowing that. That, like, there was no easy out.

[Natalie]

It's also what you say, Nick, too, where it's like, you have to be okay with being the villain in someone's story. And it's just like you trying to pretend to, like, care for his. Not pretend to care for his feelings, but like, trying to protect his feelings instead of just being honest made you look worse. Because it all seems performative.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Where it's like, I'd rather you just be like, hey. And the easiest cop out for this whole situation is, hey, I realize I have to get married to you in two weeks and I'm not ready to get.

[Susie]

Get married.

[Natalie]

Like, that's okay.

[Heather]

Not just I don't want to go to Baja.

[Natalie]

Yeah. Like, you know what I mean?

[Heather]

Because, like, free trip to Baja.

[Patrick]

Kind of hard to know at the altar.

[Susie]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Natalie]

Then there would have been two couples that didn't have sex. And then Edmund wouldn't feel so alone.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

All right, let's do a little housewives of O.C. we will get into the Miami reunion, which everyone's buzzing about, as well as Real Housewives of Potomac. We're going to check that one out this season. That will be on Thursday's episode of Reality Recap. I loved this episode. I don't know. I was clocked in.

[Mary]

Well, if you're not clocked in, here is a rapid recap of the most recent episode of the Real Housewives of Orange County. We're back in hell, which is Orange County. Tamara is still trying to win Shannon back and plotting ways to destroy Gretchen. Also, Jen followed the guy in the boy band, Tamara. Allegedly, Shannon broke her readers and is still wearing them. Symbols are everywhere for those with eyes to see, etc. Etc. Heather is here to remind everyone, everyone that she takes sketch comedy very seriously. Jen's son gets an angel number tattoo to prepare for the Marines. Then he almost passes out. God bless the troops. Gretchen loves that she's not invited to Tamara Spring fling party. Emily once again refers to Gretchen as Gretchers for some reason. Then she calls her a bad Christian. There's nothing like Orange County Housewives. Shannon thinks she looks like a prairie hooker. She's just wearing a red dress. Tamara is going to meet Katie because she does feel like Gretchen is the all star liar in the group of liars that pisses it. Emily off. Heather is mad at Gina for shit talking her improv journey. Gina didn't know Heather was a comedian because she's never been funny and is also too young to remember her 90s sitcom. And listen, all love to Heather, but if your friends start taking improv, it is your civic duty to make fun of them, support them, but not too much. Comedy needs trauma, et cetera, et cetera. Heather also doesn't trust Tamra with her feelings, which is the funniest conclusion to just now come to. Maybe Heather is a comedy queen. But then Tamra quits again. Again. And I'm bored overall. Katie, Janela, you are missed. Get back here. Seriously.

[Patrick]

I'm not bored. By the second quitting.

[Casey]

Honestly.

[Nick]

Again?

[Mary]

Yeah, again.

[Patrick]

No, I was like, at this point.

[Nick]

It'S kind of doing it.

[Mary]

It is funny.

[Patrick]

It is.

[Heather]

Okay, Rule of threes. Rule of threes. First time it was funny. Second time, not impressed. You gotta hit me with a third time for me to get into.

[Patrick]

This was her third time. When was the first she screamed out when the Gretchen thing. The night before or the day before?

[Nick]

Yeah, but.

[Heather]

Okay, sorry.

[Nick]

She's only stormed out twice.

[Natalie]

She's still bored.

[Nick]

Can we bring up Heather's IMDb page?

[Natalie]

You mean Heather Paige Kent?

[Casey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

What sitcom was she in? Did she, like, go on one date with Jerry Seinfeld in an episode of season four?

[Natalie]

No, she did Hot in Cleveland in season four. Oh, she was hot in Cleveland. She had a guest star role, but, like, she's been on six.

[Nick]

Any main characters, any recurring roles?

[Heather]

She was no Terry Hatcher, I'll say that.

[Natalie]

Okay, pulling it up.

[Patrick]

Stark raving mad. That's life.

[Nick]

When Gina called Heather brave for doing stand up comedy. Well, that's very brave.

[Heather]

That's very brave.

[Natalie]

That's conscious.

[Heather]

That was kind of specifically for me.

[Nick]

I died. The best part was because, like, Gina wasn't trying to be a. She was. Gina was like, that's so brave.

[Patrick]

That's kind of was, though. She kind of.

[Nick]

I don't think so. I think that Gina was like, really? I think Gina seriously thought it was bright brave of her.

[Heather]

Her being like, I guess Heather's my funny friend. That was shade like that. If I was Heather Dubrow in that moment, like, me being the person I am, if I found out my friends were that shocked I was getting into comedy, I may, like, walk out the door and never return and go into the ocean somewhere.

[Mary]

It also killed me that Emily came in guns a blazing, ready to just like, stir the pot with Tamra Tamara. Then like, leaves and then Emily's like, confiding in. In the cake baker.

[Natalie]

I. I'm sorry. And like, this might to be offensive to Emily, but I'm like, Emily is just like the fakest friend you never want.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Like, because she can't wait to throw someone under the bus. But she never acknowledges her part in the conversation. And even when she does, she's like, I think, I think I said that. And it's like, no. You literally come in before anyone gets there and you're so ready to cause a fight between Tamara and Heather.

[Mary]

She's like, I said it too, but it's not that big of a deal. But Heather said, yeah, I need Emily.

[Nick]

To stop talking about her kids eating disorder.

[Heather]

I'm just like, bored. I'm like, emily, stop using your kid. And like, what's going on with him as your storyline. It's grossing me out.

[Nick]

Yeah, I think maybe it was coupled with the fact that we are literally walking into a store for business built on breaking pottery only to glue it back together. If that's not the most bored, privileged white women shit I've ever seen.

[Patrick]

Oh, for sure. Yeah, I want to do it, but it's fine.

[Nick]

I don't. That's. That's crazy. I don't know what it symbolizes. I just think there's just like.

[Susie]

You know, I actually did that with my dad though.

[Nick]

What?

[Susie]

I lived in Japan for two years though, and I. When during COVID we were like all locked down together. My dad was super sick, like literally so sick in a wheelchair. And we broke like a. A planter that we got my mom for her birthday. And so like, as a family, my mom, my dad and I all like, put it back together with like the gold. It's not glue. It's like a thing. And it was like, very therapeutic for us in that moment. It was spiritual. And I was like, I lived in Japan.

[Nick]

I'm not sure it all has its benefits.

[Patrick]

It's true.

[Nick]

Like, you clearly have a lot of time and money and your life is luxurious beyond belief. That you have the ability to pay to break shit only to put it back together, that is just. It's just insane. I mean, I think we just have to recognize that. And I just like, I don't know, like all these like, kids in the LLC with parents who just have nothing but time to think about problems for their kids. I don't know. It's just like. It just. Yeah, I don't know.

[Susie]

I also agree. I was gonna say I agree with your statement about the talking about the eating disorder thing. It's like this came up recently with like some mom friends and it's like sometimes if you put too much pressure on a situation, it starts to like, add to the issue versus like allowing somebody like, to just be themselves and like, it kind of works itself out. And I'm no parent, so I can't.

[Nick]

It's like parents, you're like, parents are uncomfortable with their idea and like, get it. As a parent, we don't want our Kids to feel discomfort or pain or disappointment. But that is all a part of life. Right? Like, all those things are, like, lessons to be learned. I think, like, this. Some parents have too much goddamn time in our hands on their hands that they're like. They're in it. You know, it's all. Comes from a place of love, but, like, it's just like, let just fuck, man. I don't know.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But maybe I'm misreading it, but I just. I need her to stop talking about it because it's, like, always an uncomfortable scene.

[Patrick]

I'm definitely the odd one out there. I think it's pretty, like, interesting to see her talk about, like, her kid that's struggling with an ed. But also it's coupled with, like, being on the spectrum and, like, how she's saying, like, it's causing issues.

[Justin]

I.

[Patrick]

First of all, I wouldn't want this on tv, but I think it's something we don't see on tv. And I can see why she's vulnerable for showing it, but it's also, like, not her.

[Natalie]

I mean, sorry, but, like, obviously we know kids can't give consent, so it's just kind of like you're blasting this child's personal information for millions of people to watch, let alone he has to go to school. School, you know, so it's like, now we have a bunch of people who shouldn't know his medical records. Now hearing from a mom's point of view, let alone that the mom is kind of making this about her and how it's affecting her and her relationship and all this, I'm like, I just don't think you need that broadcasted. Or, like, the kid doesn't.

[Nick]

And it all comes from a place of love. I. One of my best friends I've met his parents. Love his parents. They're great parents. They have a great relationship. But, like, when he was in high school, like. Like, I don't know what he was going through. He was an eccentric person. He was an eccentric kid. And he, like, he was put on all this crazy medication and sent to, like, off into the woods and whatever. And, like, he was, like, fine. And, like, all he had to do is just, like, grow up and get off, you know, like. And he was put on a bunch of that. He shouldn't have been put on because, like, he was just a little bit of a weirdo. I don't know.

[Mary]

I think it was crazy that Jyn followed the boy band guy.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Which is random. Like, what?

[Mary]

And her reasoning makes zero sense in.

[Nick]

Her defense, she follows like 3,000 people, and I'm one of them. And I don't think she follows me because we've said nothing but nice things about Ryan.

[Heather]

Oh, I just want to know who the boy band guy is.

[Natalie]

I do. I think I know he's.

[Nick]

Who?

[Natalie]

Well, I mean, allegedly.

[Nick]

Who do you think it is? Allegedly.

[Natalie]

Allegedly. It's Jeff Timmons from 98 Degrees Degrees.

[Susie]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Natalie]

So not Nick Lachey, but the other lead singer from the boy band 98 Degrees copy. And honestly, like, the ending of this season is really interesting for me because you know how against Tamara I was last season, and it's just kind of like a. Watching the Gretchen of it all. And then it's just Jen acting like a deer in headlights, being like. What do you mean? Like, I just. I followed. And then it's like her itm is like, well, I just wanted to see. In case he saw that I followed him and he wanted to tell me that it's such a weird thought process. Yeah, that you're like, oh, I hope he wants to talk shit about Tamara, because he'll see my blue check mark and then Google me and see that. Because do you think he's sitting here watching Orange county, hoping that he gets brought up?

[Nick]

But don't you think it's possible that Jen doesn't understand how Instagram works and she thinks she has to, like, follow people in order to follow them?

[Natalie]

I think it's safer to say Jen doesn't understand how housewives work than it is Instagram.

[Nick]

Also, there's like, the photo shoot of Gretchen and Slate, and their kid was.

[Mary]

Just with the bunny.

[Nick]

Weird.

[Patrick]

They look cute, though. I kind of like them.

[Natalie]

It's giving a family who purges, they teach their own.

[Heather]

You know, I just.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I don't need to see that.

[Mary]

You know, they were easter photos too.

[Natalie]

100%. 100% Gretchen the bunny.

[Nick]

Like, if you're doing it to be funny. Haha. If you're doing it like they were doing it weird.

[Patrick]

Did nobody grow up taking, like, Easter photos?

[Heather]

No, we were too poor.

[Mary]

You had.

[Natalie]

You had a family. That's nice.

[Heather]

I did it.

[Patrick]

My family comes with its own trauma.

[Heather]

But I. I took. We took Easter, but it was like, at church. And then occasionally there would be.

[Mary]

Your dad was a pastor.

[Susie]

And I always got sense.

[Heather]

Yeah. But then when the Easter bunny would come, I would get so scared because to see, first off, those costumes always smell bad. And then when it's a grown man in a bunny suit, it's just like, not.

[Patrick]

Well, that's different.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Anyway, also, if I have to hear Emily refer to Gretchen as Gretchen one more time, I will lose it.

[Heather]

Like, why?

[Natalie]

And I will say that Jen, this season is kind of one of my least favorites. So I tend to fast forward forward any, like, segment that's like her and just like her kids or something. But it was really weird to me how this tattoo shop, where did Dawson have a seizure or. They said he was passing out.

[Nick]

That's what I thought. But clearly it seemed like a normal thing because the tattoo artist seemed pretty unfazed and like, it was a regular thing. Yeah, yeah.

[Natalie]

That was probably the most crazy thing for me to watch because I was just like, I feel like a medical professional should be necessary. I've never once heard of, like passing out. Like, but like, he got like stiff.

[Patrick]

No, he started shaking with the seizure part was where I was like, wait, this is normal.

[Natalie]

And they're acting like, this is normal. But they're also like, on camera. I guarantee they're like, just keep it cool. Just keep it calm.

[Mary]

It will be over trained when you become a tattoo artist to like. Because I think that is a common reaction, you know, and every time I've gotten a tattoo in like an actual tattoo facility and not like from a friend in my house, it's. It's been very much like, have you eaten today? Like, what? You know, have you had any alcohol? Like, there's a lot of like questions that you have to fill out. And I think he clearly is a young kid. It was his first tattoo. You do get like hot and sweaty before you pass out. And he had no, you know, he was already sitting down. So we really had like nowhere to like fall down to. So I think that's kind of why he had the reaction that he had. I don't think it was like a seizure or like epilepsy or something. Think it was genuinely just a pass out because he came back to and was like, well, I'm good, I'm awake, I'm fine.

[Nick]

It still was weird that they aired it.

[Patrick]

I would have loved to take it out.

[Mary]

Definitely weird that they aired it. We could have definitely gone without it for sure.

[Heather]

Especially knowing he's going into the marines.

[Mary]

Yeah. Don't you feel like the marines are going to see that?

[Nick]

Scared of like.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I don't know. You're not. Not for us.

[Heather]

Yikes.

[Susie]

I know.

[Nick]

I just like, it's just more like I hate that all these, all these housewives in various franchise have this golden rule that you don't talk about our kids. But like to Sierra's parents point, they all use their kids. Not all of them. Many of them use their kids. And it's all if it's like you know, the way mar. Like I don't know, like Meredith, like I don't know, it's fun to see her family but I just don't want to see their trauma or like I don't know, it's just a little uncomfy. Anyways, that's going to do it for us this episode. We got a jam packed episode for you on Thursday. Madison from Love is Buying. John joins us as well. We also will wrap up any commentary about the first batch of episodes. We will tackle the first episode of the second batch on Thursday and save the rest for the following Tuesday. Heavy bravo on Thursday's episode of Reality Recap. We got Salt Lake City, we got Miami. We'll get into the first episode of the second batch of Love is Blind. We got Potomac as well. Madison from Love is Blind is going to join us. I'm sure we're forgetting something. It's going to be jam packed. Don't miss it. And I think that's it. We'll see you Thursday. Bye. Morning Zoe. Got donuts.

[Susie]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Nick]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you. Teach me.

[Susie]

So Dana oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly AT T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Nick]

Wow. Impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Justin]

Nice.

[Susie]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Nick]

T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?

[Susie]

Dude, my work here is done with.

[Nick]

24 month credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge. Credit same and balance due if you pay off earlier, Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 and new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025 Visit t mobile.com.