E1015 - Carlos King, Wendy Osefo Arrested, Love Is Blind w/ Annie RHOM Reunion, Haitian Morticians & RHOC

Summary

The Viall Files - E1015: "Carlos King, Wendy Osefo Arrested, Love Is Blind w/ Annie"

Date: October 14, 2025

Host: Nick Viall
Guests/Co-hosts: Natalie Joy, Sierra, Annie, Carlos King, Giselle, Mary, Justin

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Episode Overview

In this lively Reality Recap edition of The Viall Files, Nick Viall and “the Household” welcome Bravo producer and podcaster Carlos King for a behind-the-scenes dive into the Bravo universe, and interview Annie from the latest season of Love Is Blind amidst her on- and off-screen controversies. The group covers everything from parenting and airline etiquette to plastic surgery, the Wendy Osefo legal situation, Miami & OC Housewives recaps, and juicy reality TV industry insights.

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. Warm-Up: Parenting, Plane Seats & Kindness (01:18 – 16:30)

• The panel swaps stories about traveling with kids and the etiquette of switching airplane seats to keep families together.
• Sierra recounts a recent frustrating United flight experience with River and the refusal of some passengers to swap seats (07:12).
• “You’re just, you’re a selfish person who honestly, like, doesn’t take those little moments in this world to extend a small act of kindness, which is something this world fucking needs.” – Nick (13:12)
• Discussion of societal expectations around kindness, self-centeredness, and “hero moments” in everyday life.

2. What Makes Life Worth Living? (16:33 – 19:08)

• The group reflects on personal motivations: children, whimsy, gratitude, ancestry, and finding daily joy.
• Reference to Kate McKinnon’s appearance on Hot Ones inspiring reflections on connecting with others through silly, joyful interests.

3. Celebrity Pop Culture News

Kris Jenner’s Facelift & the Science of Youth (19:11 – 24:00)

• Marvel at Kris Jenner’s astonishing new look and speculation about her plastic surgeon.
• Conversation about psychological youthfulness:
  • “I’m a huge believer that the more you live young and act young will literally keep you younger.” – Nick (22:22)
• Chat about the science of aging, brain health, and self-perception in the age of social media.

Gary Turner’s Golden Bachelor Book & Reality TV Tell-alls (24:34 – 27:22)

• The group expresses skepticism about Gary’s motivations and the proliferation of reality TV memoirs.
• “He’s writing a tell-all book… Because not too long ago, apparently he found love again. So pop off, happy for you.” – Nick (25:06)

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Deep Dive: Carlos King Talks Bravo World (30:12 – 79:22)

Bravo Producer Origins & Iconic Housewives Moments

• Carlos shares his trajectory from Real Housewives of Atlanta and New Jersey to producing OWN’s #1 show Love & Marriage: Huntsville (30:35).
• Reveals he was the producer under the table handing Danielle Staub the infamous “book” in RHONJ’s season one finale (31:14).

The Secret Sauce of Housewives Stardom (32:24)

• “It’s the authenticity. You have to be yourself, because the audience can see when you are trying to become… iconic and you rehearse your lines or when you’re trying to be... this rich persona, and they know that you don’t have that lifestyle.” – Carlos (32:30)
• Nene Leakes and Teresa Giudice cited as gold standards for authenticity.

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Wendy Osefo’s Arrest & The Pressures of Bravo Stardom (34:28 – 53:15)

Legal Situation Recap:

• Wendy Osefo (RHOP) and husband indicted on insurance fraud charges totaling nearly $500k in alleged false claims.
• The case is summarized: how their burglary claim didn’t match the camera evidence, questions about triple-dipping on insurance, and suspicious presence of the supposedly stolen ring on Instagram (35:36-40:20).
• “It’s hard for me … to grasp the idea that they would do this. And I’m having a hard time justifying though the alleged facts.” – Carlos (38:55)

Industry & Cultural Pressures:

• Carlos breaks down the expectation for Housewives to self-fund glam squads and the expensive optics of wealth (43:48).
  • “When you are a real housewife … Those women, 95% of them, they pay for glam every time they shoot.” – Carlos (44:16)
• Discussion of social media’s push for greater authenticity and the fans’ shifting priorities.
  • “We appreciate authenticity more than we appreciate ... the idea of something.” – Nick (45:43)
• Speculation on how keeping up false appearances leads to desperation and sometimes fraudulent behavior.

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BTS of Housewives Production & Reckoning with Social Media (56:34 – 60:53)

• Nick and Carlos dismiss most Bravo lawsuits as "frivolous" and examine the “blame the edit” phenomenon among reality stars.
• “I often say that producers will make reality TV stars look better than they look worse ... but I’ve never seen a reality TV star in my life say, actually, that bit that I’m iconic for, I was fed that line.” – Nick (56:18)
• Carlos explains the effect of social media criticism on cast members’ relationships with production and the importance of “owning your moments.”
• Giselle Bryant praised as an example of a housewife who “never blames production, doesn’t check Twitter, and just does her job” (59:35).

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Miami and OC Housewives Recaps

RHOM Reunion Part 2: Lesbian Drama, Haitian Morticians, and Gifted Coffee Machines (61:26 – 70:15)

Rapid Recap Highlights (by Mary, read at 62:02)

• Adriana accused of cheating with a Haitian mortician and a cop, gifting a coffee machine to her lover, with alleged heartbreak and dramatic reunion antics including the giving (and kicking) of a symbolic “heart in a box.”
• In-depth panel discussion on what “counts” as lesbian sex, the meaning of “pillow princess,” and the lines between emotional and physical infidelity.
  • “For the drama, they had sex.” – Giselle (66:37)
• Carlos speculates Julia is a serial cheater and suggests Adriana is jealous of her “replacement” gaining Housewife status.

RHOC: Cowboys, Slade’s Comeback, and Performative Charity (70:26 – 79:45)

• Panel roasts Gretchen’s flop of a return and Slade’s over-involvement.
  • “Slade is being Gretchen's producer in this whole season.” – Carlos (74:45)
• Tamra’s alliance with Katie saves her from cast exile, demonstrating how relationship dynamics drive production.
• Critique of some Housewives for platforming their charity work as performative rather than authentic.

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Interview: Annie from Love Is Blind (81:56 – 100:34)

Annie’s Perspective on the Show, Controversy, and Editing

• Annie shares her genuine motivations for joining Love Is Blind: wanting a life partner after building her own success, and feeling unseen for her mind (82:46).
• On watching herself: “It's like exposure therapy... going through the craziest emotions over and over and over.” – Annie (84:46)
• She addresses the controversy around her comments about LGBTQ+ individuals, clarifying her intent and noting that a key controversial quote was edited out of context (87:46–89:38).
• “The answer is I would love my kids no matter what, I would support them in anything that they do... I would never want to be one of those people that looks like I don’t accept anyone in the queer community, because of course, everyone deserves love and especially my children.” – Annie (88:19)
• She asserts that “being gay is not a fad” and claims her words were clipped from a totally different conversation about sexualization in children’s media.
• Dishes on her relationships with other contestants, experiences with Nick and Brendan, and post-show fallout, including receiving one-star reviews and accusations of homophobia against her business (100:07).

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Love Is Blind – Group Recap and Panel Predictions (100:37 – 114:52)

• Panel reviews this season’s most dramatic couples:
  • KB and Edmund: “He needs to do some work on himself... I feel like that’s somebody that, like, he needs to really work through whatever is haunting him.” – Mary (103:20)
  • Joe’s apartment is roasted, and his self-deprecating humor is acknowledged.
  • Sparkle Megan and Jordan’s financial dynamics: “If he is... passionate about [his work], gives a shit about it, takes pride in it, and contributes in whatever ways the relationship needs... it can work.” – Nick (108:02)
• General consensus: Only Sparkle Megan and Jordan have a real shot at the altar.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “You’re an asshole if you leave your shopping cart in a parking lot.” – Nick (13:09)
• “Being yourself is the key to [being a great Housewife].” – Carlos King (32:30)
• “There is this pressure... the sort of anecdote of the Real Housewives is... you are a fabulous woman. You live behind the gates.” – Carlos King (43:48)
• “Producers will make reality TV stars look better than they look worse.” – Nick (56:18)
• “For the drama, they had sex.” – Giselle (66:37)
• “Slade is being Gretchen’s producer in this whole season.” – Carlos King (74:45)
• “I am not a homophobe at all. Like, I completely support the queer community. Those are some of my best friends.” – Annie (100:07)

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Unforgettable Moments

• Carlos King recalling crawling under the RHONJ reunion table with “the book” (31:13)
• Heavy and hilarious Miami reunion recap with lesbian tension, gifted coffee makers, “sweet little pussy” references (63:44 & 69:56)
• Annie’s candid reflections on reality TV editing and the fallout of being portrayed as homophobic (87:46–100:07)

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Segment Timestamps

| Segment/Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|---------------------| | Opening & Airplane Seat Kindness Debate | 01:18 – 16:30 | | Meaning of Life/What Drives You | 16:33 – 19:08 | | Kris Jenner Facelift & Aging | 19:11 – 24:00 | | Golden Bachelor & Reality Tell-Alls | 24:34 – 27:22 | | Carlos King: Bravo World/Housewives | 30:12 – 53:15 | | Wendy Osefo’s Legal Saga | 34:28 – 53:15 | | Bravo Production BTS/RHOM & RHOC Recaps | 56:34 – 79:45 | | Love Is Blind: Annie Interview | 81:56 – 100:34 | | Love Is Blind Panel Recap | 100:37 – 114:52 |

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Tone & Takeaways

• Episode tone is irreverent, gossipy, and highly self-aware, blending industry knowledge with hilarious table reads, panel empathy, and audience transparency.
• The hosts and guests encourage authenticity in both life and reality TV, unpack the pressures of persona-performative culture, and confront big controversies head-on.
• Visible empathy for reality stars living through public scandal, with extra focus put on context, fairness, and the sometimes brutal consequences of reality TV fame.

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For lovers of reality TV and pop culture, this episode offers both wild, hilarious recaps and an unusually honest look under the Bravo/reality TV hood.

Transcript

[Nick Joy]

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[Annie]

You're crazy.

[Nick Joy]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap edition. I'm your host, Nick Joy. Across from me is my wife, and.

[Sierra]

Beside to me is Sierra.

[Carlos King]

Hey.

[Sierra]

And across from Sierra, Mary.

[Nick Joy]

Hi.

[Annie]

Beside Mary.

[Natalie]

About me.

[Nick Joy]

We locked Leia in a room.

[Giselle]

Yeah.

[Annie]

So true.

[Giselle]

My favorite thing about Leia is she'll be deep throating the mic and she goes, can you hear me?

[Nick Joy]

Where are your glasses, Leia?

[Giselle]

Ooh.

[Annie]

Called out.

[Nick Joy]

There we go.

[Annie]

For those of you, they're here.

[Nick Joy]

Don't worry who are watching. You will see Leah putting on her prescription sunglasses. Leah's more forgetful than I am.

[Natalie]

Well, no, I'm not forgetful. I just lose things.

[Nick Joy]

Okay. Clumsy. Are you clumsy?

[Natalie]

Yeah, yeah, I'm clumsy.

[Nick Joy]

Leia and I had a meeting last week.

[Annie]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

How did that go? It was great. And Leia put her, like, business serious face on. Oh. And then went to take a sip of water and spilt all over herself.

[Carlos King]

Oh, no.

[Mary]

Chaos.

[Sierra]

Leia strikes again. So it was at the beginning of.

[Nick Joy]

The meeting, she's like, you know, because Leia and I have a very, you know, pretty casual work relationship. But this was like. She was like. You could tell. She's. She was putting her, like, all right, we're gonna have a. We're gonna have a talk. Just tripped all over herself.

[Mary]

She's like, respect me.

[Annie]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

Anyway, we do, before we get into today's show, have a great episode lined up for you and a great week, quite frankly. Carlos King. You know, I'm from Bravo World, former Bravo producer, and also just has his own hit podcast. He's here to talk all things Bravo with us, get some insight on a little BTS about how that Bravo World is made. That'll be a fun and exciting conversation. We also have Annie from Love is Blind joining us, whose appearance on the show has been met with a lot of discourse, controversy even. She's made some insensitive comments about the queer community, and we were just curious of what she. If she's reflected at all. We are looking forward to having her on and hearing from herself. Totes directly from her. Yeah, Mary's thrilled. We also just an incredible week. Wednesday's Going Deeper. Really excited for you all to hear this. Robert Irwin from Dancing with the Stars, son of Steve Irwin and his dancing partner Whitney Carson, is here. It's a great episode. Robert is such a dynamic individual. So fun. And as you know, on going deeper, as we get deep with him, there will be tears, there will be laughs. Obviously, a lot of Dancing with the Stars insight, but a lot about Robert's background and his family and just kind of just his life. A very fascinating person from a fascinating family. And it was a conversation in an interview Natalie and I really enjoyed, and I'm really excited for you all to hear that. You will not want to miss that. We also have some great guests for you lined up for Thursday, but we'll make that a surprise. One of my favorite things to talk about on this show is like, I'm not dramatic. I mean, I don't. I don't.

[Mary]

Am I the drama?

[Nick Joy]

I don't. I don't, you know, I couldn't be the drama. Maybe I'm in a little drama. Airline drama.

[Mary]

Ooh, tell me about it.

[Sierra]

There's just, like, airline etiquette that I think is so interesting because everyone feels so different about it. Even just like having your window up or down or reclining your seat, the two inches that it reclines. It's just so interesting because everyone has a different take on it.

[Nick Joy]

We were flying, as we often do last week, and a situation happened. But since the world seems to be in tune with us, People magazine also over the weekend wrote an article about this very drama that we were involved in.

[Mary]

Oh, my God.

[Annie]

I need to know.

[Mary]

I will say I just learned about this whole, like, air the windows up and down at certain times and whatnot. I was like, I didn't know.

[Nick Joy]

That's what the best part about it. Every time we talk about it, like, we know that, like, half the People will disagree with us.

[Sierra]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Joy]

It's so divisive.

[Sierra]

But it's also so interesting because I feel like once I became a mom, I realized how like selfish I was being before I had kids.

[Nick Joy]

Now you saying that is going to trigger all the non parents out there.

[Carlos King]

Totally.

[Mary]

But it's because I am a non parent. So let's see.

[Sierra]

It's because I'm a non parent.

[Giselle]

I'm selfish.

[Sierra]

It's because you don't think. You, you just, you travel and you think about yourself, right? You're like, well, I bought this seat next to the window. I want to look out the window. It's sunny and bright. It's fine. I don't care that the mother in front of me is trying to put.

[Nick Joy]

Her so much so that when you see and parents with kids walking on the plane, you're just like, oh my God, don't sit next to me.

[Sierra]

Yeah, but it's like you don't even think, oh, maybe that baby's crying because she's over tired. He. She is overtired and needs darkness to fall asleep. And maybe put my window down just to let this baby fall asleep. I don't know. Could be an option or like.

[Nick Joy]

But no, look out the window at the clouds.

[Sierra]

Right?

[Annie]

You know, it must be really bad for you.

[Sierra]

We were, yeah, we were traveling from the lake back to la.

[Nick Joy]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Sierra]

Lamb and our. We have to fly. We have to do a connecting flight because lake house in the middle of nowhere. So we fly into Denver and our first flight is delayed. We're sitting on the aircraft for an hour because something's wrong. We're waiting on a maintenance guy.

[Nick Joy]

Just. Also just real pet peeve about the airlines. Why do they always do it this way? Especially when your plane's there, you're waiting for it, it's just sitting there. What a great time to do maintenance. Yeah, what a great time to check on that plane, see if it's operational. But no, they wait to everyone boards. Then the pilot gets on and then they turn on the plane. They're like, oop, it doesn't work. Sorry. We're going to call the maintenance guy. Not sure if he showed up for work today.

[Sierra]

He might not be on a smoke break. I don't know. We'll find him.

[Mary]

You'll be ready to take off in four hours from now.

[Nick Joy]

Literally.

[Mary]

Exactly.

[Sierra]

So we take off an hour pass when we're supposed to completely miss our connecting flight. And so we are just bumped to the next flight out of Denver. To Burbank. And so, of course, that flight is pretty much full, so Nick and I get two middle seats separated from each other.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Sierra]

Traveling with River.

[Mary]

And where is river sitting?

[Sierra]

She's sitting with me, of course.

[Giselle]

Oh, my God.

[Sierra]

Of course she's sitting with me. She's still. Honestly, she's still. She's still a lap child. Because under two, they're a lap child.

[Giselle]

Okay.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Justin]

Does she have to be, like, strapped into you?

[Sierra]

No, no. You just hold her. And let me tell you, I will no longer. We will be paying for her to get a seat.

[Nick Joy]

Thank God for that.

[Sierra]

Thank God for that because this has been. It's been too much. She won't. She won't let Nick hold her.

[Giselle]

No.

[Annie]

No.

[Sierra]

She won't let Nick hold her on a plane.

[Mary]

Oh, shut up.

[Sierra]

If Nick tries to take her, she's like, mama.

[Justin]

Mama.

[Sierra]

So I'm like, just give her back to me.

[Justin]

Sweating.

[Sierra]

Sweating. You've got the little print of a child.

[Nick Joy]

Like, she really likes me. For clarification. But, like, it's all, thank you for clarifying.

[Giselle]

She likes you on the ground.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah. But if your favorite thing in the world is always available as an option, you're never gonna pick your second.

[Mary]

Second favorite.

[Sierra]

Yes.

[Nick Joy]

Just not.

[Sierra]

Anyway, so we board. We have priority boarding families with children under two.

[Nick Joy]

Shout out United.

[Sierra]

Shout out United. We board first. We get on the plane, and I as walking on. I tell the flight attendant, like, we got bumped to this flight last minute. Like, what would. What do you think's our best course of action in seating? Sitting down.

[Nick Joy]

I don't know why you asked that question.

[Sierra]

I don't know either. And she was like, just be really nice and ask them what? I'm like, I knew that you're expecting them to ask.

[Natalie]

I don't know.

[Sierra]

I just wanted to clue her in, you know? I don't know. I wanted to keep her updated.

[Mary]

If you see me walking around the aisles talking to people, if you want.

[Sierra]

To back me up, don't. Exactly. Exactly.

[Justin]

That was a setup. That was a setup, though. She could have easily gone on that intercom and been like, ladies and gents, we have a family.

[Sierra]

A family.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah. I don't think you should expect them to do that.

[Sierra]

No, no, no. So anyways, we sit in our two middle seats away from each other. I have river with me. The plane starts boarding. A man comes and sits beside me. He sits at the window. And I'm like, do you want to switch with my husband?

[Annie]

He's like, no, I'm okay.

[Nick Joy]

These are like middle aged men.

[Sierra]

Two middle aged men.

[Mary]

Actually, the.

[Sierra]

The second one was definitely older than Nick. Second one comes and I'm like, maybe I need to approach this with like, a different than just being like, hey, do you want to switch with my husband for reference?

[Nick Joy]

He had a wedding ring on. I note that only because, like, what was the approach? Well, only just like, okay, this is not like a single guy. Yeah.

[Sierra]

Wait a second. You're really making this. I approached this one a little different, and it's like he had a wedding ring on. And I was like, what did we all say?

[Nick Joy]

I don't mean it like that.

[Sierra]

She went freaky on it.

[Nick Joy]

And he still said no. So I wasn't that good. I just expected to maybe him have more empathy for.

[Mary]

Because he was married.

[Sierra]

Got you. So I'm sitting with river on my lap, and he comes and sits down, and I'm like, listen, I know this is like the least desirable ask, and I'm so sorry. My husband is two rows behind me, also in a middle seat. Would any part of you want to switch with him? I know it's like, does not sound good at all. I just wanted to ask. Take some time to think about it. And he's like, okay. And then he's like, you know what? I'm gonna be honest with you. I've had a long travel week, and I'd really prefer the aisle. And I was like, okay. So anytime I had put on, I think it was like Little Mermaid or something forever on the screen. And anytime they would announce something over the intercom, obviously the screen stops playing the movie. And river would be like, oh, mama, mama, mama. And she'd kind of get upset, and I would just kind of like, let her, like, so you're choosing an aisle beside a baby.

[Nick Joy]

Enjoy the flight to enjoy your life.

[Giselle]

To be honest, as a. As a childless person who gets annoyed with children on planes, if someone had offered me that, I would be like.

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah, me too. I'm taking. I probably would.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

Like, we get it.

[Nick Joy]

There's no good options. We're sorry. We exist in this moment.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

The lady who sat next to me, I was. I asked, but I like, I just.

[Mary]

What was her response?

[Nick Joy]

She's. She just said no. Her sister was also in the aisle across. She's like, I'm sitting next to my sister who didn't talk to her sister once on the flight.

[Sierra]

Yeah, more important than daughter.

[Mary]

And Nick was paying attention.

[Nick Joy]

But at least in her defense, her saying no was just still sitting next to me, as opposed to the man sitting next to Natalie. I was disgusted by him. I see this wedding ring, I'm like, dude, bro, like, here is an opportunity to just. You can feel good about yourself. You can feel like you did a kindness for someone else. I get it.

[Natalie]

How long the flight?

[Nick Joy]

No situ. 2 1/2 hours.

[Sierra]

Yeah, not even two and a half.

[Nick Joy]

We're sorry. We exist. There was no good options.

[Carlos King]

You.

[Nick Joy]

You drew the, like, the unlucky straw sitting next to a mom with a child. And you have an opportunity. Yeah, it's a middle seat. But now you get to feel like a hero for the day. So I'm texting Natalie. I'm like, make his life miserable. I'm like, just let her go. Just let her. I don't care.

[Sierra]

Let her.

[Nick Joy]

Let it. Just let her fucking go. Nuts. I'm just enraged by, like, I'm assuming this is like a dad, a husband. Like, just like, step up guy, you know? You know, he was well dressed. He was like a. You know, he wasn't like some selfish teen in his early 20s or whatever. This was like a man who should feel like doing good for being chivalrous. Like, I don't know. That was my personal judgment of him. Anyways, this lovely gentleman, like, five minutes later, looks at me, makes eye contact. I haven't noticed him at all. So it wasn't like looking around. I had given up. And he kind of points to hit the man. He's like, would you like this seat? And I'm like, yeah. Not sure where he's going. So anyway, he taps the man on the shoulder. He's like, I have an aisle. You switch with me. And he let. And he sat in my seat. His lovely name was R. He's like the letter shout out R. If you were on the Burbank flight from Denver to. I wanted to get a hold of him. I wanted to send him something nice. I wanted, like. I was like, how do I ask him what his Venmo is? I really wanted to, like, send him something like, you know, honestly.

[Sierra]

So, interestingly enough, People magazine releases this article saying, should a solo plane passenger have to move seats so a family can sit together? A travel expert answers should, absolutely not. Yeah, it's literally like putting your cart away at the grocery store. There's no law. You don't have to.

[Nick Joy]

But you're an asshole if you don't.

[Sierra]

You're an asshole if you leave your shopping cart in a park.

[Nick Joy]

But no, you're. You're just. You're. You're a selfish person who Honestly, like, doesn't take those little moments in this world to like, extend a small act of kindness, which is something this world fucking needs.

[Mary]

And I was gonna say it's a two hour flight. It'd be one thing if we're talking like 10 hours overseas, but like for two hours.

[Nick Joy]

Oh, by the way, after, after, after, R, the hero that he is, switched seats. The other gentleman hung his head in shame. Good for the entire flight. Cause I kept looking at him and he would not look at us.

[Sierra]

And so, I mean, I saw the comments under this post being like, no, people need to plan better. And totally. Like, if you plan better. Well, it was like, if your family, if you're not picking your seats together, like, no, because.

[Nick Joy]

Because families who book flights, they.

[Sierra]

They don't want to sit together.

[Nick Joy]

They don't want to sit together. They're. They're like, you know what? Russian roulette. Let's just see what the airline gives us.

[Mary]

Well, also, you guys were on a delayed flight, so it's not like you chose those seats. Like, it's like, it's almost like the idea, but the plan. Better people in the comments.

[Nick Joy]

I mean, like, again, it was also.

[Sierra]

Like, if I, if I'm, you know, if I paid to sit in Comfort plus, or if I paid for a window seat, or if I paid for the seat and you're offering me something below what I want.

[Nick Joy]

If you paid it, sure. But like, again, even more of a chance to be a hero. Yeah, Comfort plus, a little different.

[Sierra]

But also, I think something to know is like, anytime we've ever had to ask someone if they'd switch with us, Nick is always like, I don't know if you drink, but like, I'll, I'll buy you drinks the whole flight. Like, you know, like, Right. I'm giving you a lesser seat.

[Nick Joy]

If you're listening to the show, you would know a man named R who describes himself like the letter and he land like, please DM us. I'd love to send R something.

[Justin]

Something.

[Mary]

Very nice, man.

[Giselle]

It was me as, as someone who flies in and out of Orlando International Airport constantly and has always viewed that as a natural form of birth control. I just want to say that you guys have not made me feel any differently about that, but have given me a lot of empathy.

[Sierra]

Okay, well, so like, if you're on a, if you're on a plane, what are you doing?

[Giselle]

Oh, I'm switching the seat. Easy. But that's also just like, I would do that. I just don't want to sit next.

[Sierra]

To a kid that's going to say.

[Mary]

She'S not switching to be kind, I.

[Carlos King]

Would do the same.

[Nick Joy]

I'd be like, you're good.

[Justin]

All right.

[Nick Joy]

What's in it for me? I get to feel good about myself. And honestly, objectively, like, I don't want to sit next to this kid and.

[Mary]

I'm getting my drinks paid for this whole flight.

[Giselle]

Yeah, yeah. I don't have to catch a cold. Yeah.

[Sierra]

No. And river, like, you know, it's a middle seat. She's tired, she's moving. She her let, you know, Like, I'm trying to get her to not kick the seat in front of her. That's a whole new one of us.

[Nick Joy]

When we asked that guy who said no, she'd be like, all right, well, she has.

[Giselle]

That is what you need to say. Be like, sorry, she's sick and she doesn't know how to put her arm there when she coughs.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Yeah. We couldn't find a mask that fits her, so.

[Giselle]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Anyways, should you switch seats? No, but, you know, if you want to feel like a good person.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Also on that flight, it was so cute. River pulls out the, like, the cards in the back of the seat, you know, and, like, acts like she's reading the little, like, safety teachers.

[Mary]

Yes, of course.

[Sierra]

And she pulled out the one that has all the snacks and stuff on it. Like, that's on the plane. And Nick and I are talking about something. I'm not really paying attention. And she's pointing, going, mama, Mama, Mama, Mama, Mama, Mama. So I look down, and she's pointing at the little small Diet Coke. That is Mama. That is Mama. Yes.

[Nick Joy]

Let's see how this goes. But before we get to Carlos King, I'm curious. This gets slightly deep question. Oh, what would you say you live for?

[Mary]

Oh, my God.

[Giselle]

Oh, I have one. Go on whimsy.

[Nick Joy]

No, but seriously, like, when you wake up, like, what is your.

[Natalie]

Like, I mean, now, I'd say my son.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah. No, I'm just. But yeah, like, what is the thing that, like, why do you. What. Like, what's the point of your life? And I mean that seriously.

[Giselle]

I truly. When I said whimsy, I, like, fully mean that.

[Sierra]

What do you mean, whimsy?

[Giselle]

Whimsy is just like the joy of silly things around you to me.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Giselle]

Like, that is what every single day. Like, if that's what drives you, it's what drives me. I've just, like, something for whimsy things.

[Sierra]

I definitely.

[Giselle]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Like, before river, it was, you know, you. It was like, sure.

[Nick Joy]

But also part of, like, I think when you're younger is just figuring out what that thing is. You know, it's like, finding out what it is that drives you. Like, why do you care about, you know, what. What are you invested in?

[Mary]

Of course, like, I was like, I think about, you know, obviously preparing for my future and trying to get all of my ducks in a row. So it's like. But also waking up every day with. Filled with gratitude that this is what my life is. So if it were to end tomorrow that I didn't, I don't feel like I made any mistakes or that I have any regrets about it.

[Nick Joy]

What about you, Justin?

[Justin]

I mean. I mean, I'm raised to, like, think very, like, ancestrally. So, like, we, like, I am grateful for my ancestors, for they've done and also setting up my generations ahead of me. So I think it's very much like living for the future or, like, living for my family and the future.

[Nick Joy]

I just think it's a good question. We should ask ourselves more of, you know, like, why. Why do I get up? Like, what do I believe in? Like, what is my purpose? Like, people need, like, I do a.

[Mary]

Gratitude journal every morning, so it kind of makes me have to, like, think about how I'm going through my day and, like, what I'm appreciative of from the start. And then it's like, you reflect at night.

[Nick Joy]

I do find that, like, usually when that thing is something other than yourself or your own personal happiness, like, you're. You're much happier.

[Sierra]

So true. Yeah, so true.

[Giselle]

I'd watch SNL with my best friend, and then we were just watching, like, YouTube and, like, whatever afterwards, and we watch Kate McKinnon on Hot Ones, and weirdly, and the hot sauce made her get really deep. And she's, like, incredibly smart. And the way she was talking about what makes her happy and, like, the reason she does what she does is just because she was like, I find such joy and, like, these silly things, and all I ever want to do is make is, like, connect with people that also find the same joy and the same silly things.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Giselle]

And I think that's all anyway. And I was like, that's beautiful. That's exactly how I feel.

[Nick Joy]

So, Kate McKinnon, please come and be whimsical.

[Giselle]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Mary]

Please do give us that whimsy.

[Giselle]

It rock.

[Nick Joy]

Well, we'll think about that anyways, while you're listening in the car.

[Sierra]

Obviously, we've talked about Kris Jenner and her insane facelift and Honestly, I'm thankful. It's so good. It's so.

[Nick Joy]

She's giving hope.

[Sierra]

Good. And honestly, she did a. A transition. She did a transition carpenter, and it was like, her. And she did it with, I guess, Chris Appleton. They were changing her hair to, like, blonde, I think.

[Justin]

Well, because she just did an event with Chris Appleton.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Sierra]

So she was doing this transition, and she had no makeup on, and she. And then she transitioned to makeup, and she looked so good. Someone in the comments or someone said somewhere that they stepped on her back to pull her face back, and they so did. Like, it is so snatched.

[Nick Joy]

Don't know. But it's crazy because, like, up. Up until I thought, even today, like, when it came to, like, plastic surgery, less is more and more is less. I mean, she's not, like, looks 40 there. It's crazy. And not, like, so crazy. Her neck is perfect. It's. It's. It's stunning. Because usually, like, you have that much plastic surgery and you're over, like, 60. It just. It's a. It's botched.

[Sierra]

Did she announce who her doctor was, or did people figure it out?

[Justin]

No, that's the thing. The one thing everybody saying is, like, dox your doctor or, like, give the biggest promo to that doctor or.

[Nick Joy]

Or are we sure that this is all surgical? It almost looks too good to be surgical.

[Justin]

I mean, what else would it be?

[Nick Joy]

I don't know.

[Mary]

AI. No, I'm just kidding. No, but it's kind of like, even when Lindsay Lohan kind of came back, and it's like, who's your facialist? Who's your injector?

[Justin]

Like, it was Lindsay, it was Chris. It was Donatella. Like, there's Donatella.

[Sierra]

Yeah, Versace.

[Justin]

She fixed it a lot, though.

[Mary]

No way.

[Sierra]

No, it was Madonna.

[Justin]

It was, well, Madonna, too, but, like, Donatella also, like, had, like, they fixed her face.

[Sierra]

Facelifts.

[Giselle]

Here's my thing about Kris Jenner, is that I want to know if Kris Jenner. I saw a picture of her next to Kim Kardashian, and I just am still unsure if Kris Jenner looks absolutely fantastic or Kim Kardashian looks terrible.

[Sierra]

You feel like she looks bad.

[Giselle]

No, it's just they look the exact same.

[Mary]

I was gonna say. I saw the thing that you're talking.

[Giselle]

You know what I mean?

[Sierra]

They look. Well, I mean, it's just identical.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah. Well, that just means that Chris has done remarkable work. I mean, I don't know. For all the anti. Maybe botched plastic surgeries was, like, what kept people saying. Because it was like, you know what? I have a short window. I can maybe extend this for maybe 10 more years. But at some point, I just need to give up.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

And I won't let him.

[Sierra]

So I will be putting him under the knife. And she says, I booked your console and I will be the one pulling his. Stepping on his back. Yeah.

[Giselle]

Well, I just wonder sometimes, and I don't mean this in any way to, like, critique, because I think everyone should be able to do whatever the fudge they want with their face. And I do think Kris Jenner looks amazing, but I do wonder when you get the way. Obviously, your body is still aging at a natural rate, but when you want.

[Nick Joy]

To know what she looks like naked.

[Giselle]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

[Nick Joy]

No, I'm matches the girly.

[Giselle]

I'm talking about her internal organs. I'm saying that when you, like, look at your face and you kind of have this perception of your age. Right. I almost wonder if it's like this weird unconscious Cany Valley thing of you see yourself in a different way and then, well, as you age and, like, natural stuff happens to your body, like, it might just, like, mess with your brain.

[Nick Joy]

I actually argue the opposite. I. I think I'm a big believer.

[Giselle]

Younger.

[Nick Joy]

Well, I'm a huge believer that, like, the more you live young and act young will literally keep you younger. Yeah.

[Sierra]

My grandfather was 96 when he died, and he was, like, fully there up until 94. And he says that it was because, like, he woke up every single morning and checked the stocks and, like, went and played bridge with his friends. And he didn't just sit in front of a TV and, like, rot his brain. He was, like, exercising his brain and, like, talking all the time.

[Nick Joy]

Recently, like, studies have come out because there used to be this always kind of saying as you get older, more and more brain cells die. Like, it's like you're born with a limited number of brain cells. And as, like, everything you do, you're just killing brain cells until you're just like a vegetable by the time you're like, 90. And that's just not true to the day we die. Our brain keeps producing more brain cells, but if you don't use it, you lose it. Right. So after like, seven or 10 days, so, like, older, and you get lazy. You sit around and you're just like, I don't want to do anything. You don't look at the stock. So you don't have, like, a purpose you're waking up for or, you know, just whatever it Is that keeps you younger. You lose it. So like, so I would argue, like, the more you look in the mirror and you feel young. Yeah, yeah.

[Justin]

It's like a psychological thing.

[Nick Joy]

You'll. Your body, your internal organs will actually keep up with how you see or present yourself to the world.

[Giselle]

Modern Manners and Princess by Nick Bile.

[Justin]

Do you guys remember Christmas dinner a couple years ago when I was joking with you, Natalie, about like getting plastic surgery? And Nick goes, you don't need it. I was like, aww.

[Giselle]

Justin is brought up.

[Justin]

I think about it all the time. I'm like, that was sweet.

[Giselle]

He has brought that up to me many times.

[Mary]

It's really cute.

[Sierra]

Sweet moments for sure.

[Nick Joy]

When they are sweet, you remember them.

[Sierra]

I have friends who will be like, one time I came over and Nick was like, you look really pretty today. Or like, love your shirt. It's like they're like. It was so genuine and so nice.

[Justin]

He's nice. Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

Because I don't say things I don't mean. Yeah. Like, I don't fill you with nonsense.

[Giselle]

When I first started working here, Nick was always like, you have. You wear really cool T shirts. And I was like, yeah, I do. Yeah.

[Sierra]

And everybody, you're like, do you think he's going to think this one's going to.

[Nick Joy]

That's why you don't give out insincere compliments.

[Justin]

I agree.

[Sierra]

That's why it's like when I was like, oh my gosh, you look so pretty today. It's like, thanks, you do too.

[Giselle]

Don't say that.

[Sierra]

Just take the compliment.

[Nick Joy]

I don't leave you.

[Sierra]

I'm sick.

[Nick Joy]

Breaking news. Gary Turner, your golden bachelor are not so golden as people are becoming to realize. And you know, certainly we have speculated a long time that maybe Gary Turner was not so golden. But apparently he's coming out with hello book, which is apparently what you do in your golden years.

[Sierra]

I thought he'd be like sailing or retired.

[Giselle]

Knitting from the television, golfing, not living in Naples. I don't know.

[Sierra]

But he's writing a tell all book.

[Nick Joy]

Because not too long ago, apparently he found love again. So pop off happy for you. Yeah.

[Sierra]

It also feels like a weird thing to do once you've found love and you're in a great relationship to like go back and write a tell all.

[Justin]

This is the year of tell alls. But it's like the people that are single.

[Mary]

Is it a tell all about his experience on the Bachelor? Is it like a memoir of his life?

[Giselle]

The interviewer asked, are you worried at all about her Meaning Teresa reading the book, and he said, I'm not worried. I think she should be worried.

[Sierra]

Which, ew, that feels icky at this age. Why?

[Giselle]

He also said after being asked, do you wish Teresa the best? He said, we all have goals in life. We all deserve to be happy. So I certainly wish the same to her as I would all of the women and myself, and that she finds her path to her full happiness. There's nothing wrong with embracing a career like she does. Maybe that's her source of happiness, and I think that would be wonderful. So I just wish I would have known that.

[Nick Joy]

Well, because she didn't love pickleball as much as you do.

[Sierra]

No, no, no. What is the difference in her career and his career?

[Nick Joy]

I know he doesn't have one.

[Justin]

The way she does is a shady.

[Nick Joy]

He does.

[Sierra]

But he's writing a tell all book.

[Mary]

About her, so she's killing it and.

[Sierra]

Saying she should be worried.

[Giselle]

Thinking about Sparkle, Megan and Jordan. He can't handle, like, Jordan was upfront about his feelings about, like, with the money and stuff and whatever. And then you have someone like Gary who, like, can't handle it. I mean, he's older.

[Justin]

Yeah. We don't know if it's the same situation.

[Annie]

I don't know.

[Giselle]

She had more money than him.

[Mary]

I'm just like. Like, the current golden bachelor has enough heat on him right now from the shit he said from a podcast. Like, Gary, you could have gone and, like, lived your life and we were thinking about you or talking about you, and now you just kicked up all this stuff where I'm like, oh, wait, they both suck.

[Nick Joy]

Are you guys watching? Is anyone here watching?

[Giselle]

No.

[Mary]

The second we stopped, I was good.

[Giselle]

I was like, I. Not for free.

[Mary]

I wish you all the best.

[Sierra]

Are you?

[Nick Joy]

No, I don't feel I haven't and I don't. No one's like.

[Sierra]

No one said a word. It's like the same as I did.

[Justin]

See his billboard, though, driving down, like, La Brea or something, and I was like, oh, that's still up.

[Mary]

Are we almost done with the season?

[Nick Joy]

I don't know.

[Natalie]

No, it just started.

[Justin]

It just started. Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

Thank God. Taylor, Frankie Paul.

[Carlos King]

Yes, the Bachelorette.

[Nick Joy]

She's our only hope. Hope you're doing well, Teresa. We're thinking of you.

[Giselle]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

All right, well, now it's time for Carlos King and to get into all things bravo. He's up next. Get ready to laugh.

[Sierra]

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[Nick Joy]

It's incredible what you can get at Wayfair. Literally anything you are you looking for like an outdoor trampoline, Wayfair has it. If you're looking for an incredible desk for your home, office also has that indoor outdoors. It doesn't matter. Wayfair has it all. Especially with the holidays coming up. Decorate your entire house for all your favorite holidays. With Wayfair. They have it all.

[Sierra]

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[Nick Joy]

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[Sierra]

And it's not just socks. Their slippers are so chic and so cute. I have a red pair. Their Sherpa line Sunday slippers are just exquisite.

[Nick Joy]

Not only will it feel good on your feet, it's going to feel good for your soul.

[Sierra]

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[Nick Joy]

Well, welcome Carlos King to the show.

[Sierra]

Hello.

[Nick Joy]

We're so excited to have you. Lots to get into, obviously, all things Bravo, but for the people who. I mean, I think most people in the Bravo sphere know who you are, but for the people who don't, give us a little background about yourself and how you just been all the different ways you've been involved in covering Bravo.

[Carlos King]

So I was the executive producer of the Real Housewives of Atlanta in addition to a producer for the Real Housewives of New Jersey. I did the first two seasons.

[Annie]

Wow.

[Carlos King]

Which some say are the best.

[Mary]

Yes, they do.

[Sierra]

Yes, they do.

[Carlos King]

That's my Bravo background. And I did, like, Nene's wedding special, Kandi's wedding special. So many other things. And now I'm the owner of my production company, King Garain Entertainment, and I produce shows. I produce the number one show on Oprah Winfrey's network called Love and Huntsville.

[Sierra]

So, yes, it's been good.

[Mary]

And you got Theresa's table.

[Carlos King]

Oh, do you guys know the story behind that?

[Nick Joy]

No, I don't.

[Carlos King]

Oh, well, listen, you have a mic. Split the tea. So I was thereesa's producer. This is season one, as we all know. Long story short, I was also Danielle's producer. And Danielle decided to bring the book to the finale dinner. But Danielle wore a lbd. That's a little black dress, Nick. All the straight guys. Who's listening? So she could not carry the book. So she handed me the book, and I crawled underneath the table, tapped Danielle's ankle, and handed her the book. So when you watch the show, you see her, like, reaching down and she grabs the book from me, and then she placed it on the table, and the rest is history.

[Annie]

Wow.

[Sierra]

So you were under the producer. You were under that table?

[Carlos King]

Yes.

[Mary]

You helped it flip instead of being in the closet.

[Sierra]

I was under the table, yes. And once it flipped under there like this.

[Nick Joy]

Yes.

[Carlos King]

I'm like, I'm like, crawling, like, on my knees. Not the good kind. And I'm just, like, getting out of the way. And then Teresa flipped the table, and.

[Sierra]

She became a superstar, the icon that she is.

[Nick Joy]

As someone who's produced housewives, in your opinion, what makes the perfect housewife?

[Carlos King]

I say this all the time to the reality stars, to people, and they think I'm bullshitting. But honestly, it's the authenticity. You have to be yourself, because the audience can see when you are trying to become, whether it's iconic and you rehearse your lines or when you're trying to be, you know, this rich Persona, and they know that you don't have that lifestyle. Teresa Giudice, Nene League's two women that I've worked with, Those are two women, to me who are like the godmothers of housewives, because separate individuals, but they have the same quality. And that is they are who they are 24 7. And that's the easiest answer, because, honestly, it's the right answer. Being yourself is the key to it.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

So true. I mean, I feel like every moment we have of Nene leakes is such treasure. It's such gold. Like, I. Is there. Are we ever gonna get her back on our TV screen?

[Carlos King]

I hope so. Listen, listen. I'm a hope for guy. I'm wishful. At the end of the day, she is back working with NBC. She's, like, co hosting the Oscars. Red carpet. The Emmys Red carpet. And she's doing all those things.

[Nick Joy]

She just doesn't need it, you know?

[Carlos King]

But I will say this.

[Annie]

I need it.

[Carlos King]

I am obsessed with Lanithia Monique Johnson leakes once removed.

[Nick Joy]

Yes.

[Carlos King]

And what I will say is she is Atlanta housewives, and I would love to see her back on that franchise because she helped build it.

[Natalie]

Yep.

[Sierra]

So true. Before we get into all of the headlines and the recaps that we have. Wendy.

[Carlos King]

I know. No. So I was flying in late last night, early this morning, rather, and of course, I'm like that damn. Nick. Perfect timing. Perfect timing.

[Sierra]

We called Wendy and we were like.

[Nick Joy]

Could you get arrested?

[Justin]

Could you?

[Carlos King]

Go ahead, Natalie girl.

[Sierra]

No.

[Nick Joy]

I mean, for the people who don't know, just give a little context.

[Annie]

Let's.

[Sierra]

Justin, do you want to break down?

[Justin]

Yeah. I mean, Andy also just said something on radio. Andy. So we have that statement as well. We can get to. But so essentially, we know Wendy and her husband were indicted on multiple charges. So Wendy was indicted on seven counts of insurance fraud.

[Nick Joy]

From Potomac.

[Justin]

From Potomac.

[Nick Joy]

And for the people who don't know.

[Justin]

So this is Wendy Osefo, the professor, the doctor, the woman we all know. Wendy was indicted on seven counts of insurance fraud, eight counts of conspiracy insurance fraud, and one count of false statement to a police officer, totaling for 16 charges. And then her husband, Eddie Osefo was indicted on 18 total counts with one extra count each on the insurance fraud and the conspiracy insurance fraud charges. And I mean, there's so many different details to this, but essentially to condense it and Carlos, you can chime in. Wendy and her husband went on a trip to Jamaica. They came back, and then they reported to the police and insurance that they had been robbed. And the money totaled to around, I think it was over $450,000 in loss of property. And essentially, because it was such a large number and key detail, they had a ring on their door, and they also had ADT systems inside of their house that had cameras. No footage was caught.

[Nick Joy]

How did I forget about that?

[Sierra]

Yeah. What?

[Justin]

So nothing was caught? There wasn't. There was. I think it was 2,500 in damages to the property. So of the break in, wasn't it.

[Mary]

Like a screen taken off a bathroom window or something?

[Justin]

I think there was a couple things that upstairs.

[Mary]

And they were saying that there was like, nothing that showed that there was. Somebody had walked in.

[Carlos King]

Yeah. So listen, I did a whole deep dive on it Friday. I spent like nine hours. Hey, Kim Kardashian. I'm in the law school too, girlfriend. I spent nine hours. Seriously, because my audience, who are called the Raindrops, they were like, get on your podcast and talk to us now. So everything you're saying is 1,000% true. The allegation was that the burglars entered the home on the second floor of the home. So when the cops came over there, they're saying that the grass was just cut and that even when the cops arrived, they left so much debris and like, you know, stuff on the ground. There were the footprints that in order for someone to break in the second story window, they would have to be. They would have to land on top of a toilet seat. And they said the toilet seat was down, but nothing was on top of it. No footprint, nothing. They said that the only way this would make sense to them is that the robbers would have had to clean up after themselves after robbing the house and that it was so difficult in this big house to break in the second floor, that those were the spidey senses that went off immediately like it.

[Nick Joy]

Was giving it would require a master criminal. But everything about the scene said Amateur, almost.

[Sierra]

And a lot of criminals.

[Carlos King]

Yes, it was. It was. It was. According to them, it didn't seem possible that a Robert would break on the second floor and not leave debris behind.

[Nick Joy]

Do you know Wendy?

[Carlos King]

I do. My birthday was October 2nd. And the beautiful Wendy texted me last week and gave me a great birthday wish. She is somebody who I do know, who I adore and we talk about often, like, we actually talk often.

[Sierra]

What are your personal thoughts on this?

[Carlos King]

You know, look, you're innocent until proven guilty. We all know that. I will say my. One of my employees named Jamie, he sent me the article from this like, weird source early Friday morning. And I'm like, jamie, stop sending me stuff that is incredible. I don't need this bullshit. And then literally 90 seconds later, I'm like perusing through Twitter and I saw TMZ post it and I said, jamie Owen, apology. TMZ people continue sending me non credible sources, please. I was floored. Even now, just to be honest with you, Natalie, I'm floored. I know her. I did not see this coming. This is an educated woman. 4 degrees. Eddie is a lawyer. He has a business. They have three children. It's hard for me just, I'm being completely honest. It's hard for me to grasp the idea that they would do this. And I'm having a hard time justifying though the alleged facts from the police and the insurance companies.

[Nick Joy]

It's nothing good.

[Carlos King]

It's not looking good. And this is just so you all know, because you may not know this. The police investigation, of course, saw everything I explained. But this is where things became worse for them. Allegedly, they're saying that they double dipped in the insurance claim.

[Justin]

Triple dipped.

[Carlos King]

Triple dipped.

[Nick Joy]

Well, what do you mean by that?

[Justin]

They filed three insurance claims.

[Carlos King]

Yes. Jeweler's Mutual Travelers Insurance and Home Site Insurance. And. And one of the things was this ring, this diamond ring, the. I believe there. I forgot which insurance company was. But one insurance company actually gave them the money for this lost or stolen ring. Well, let's say stolen, but they also allegedly claimed to the jeweler's mutual insurance, the same ring that was already paid off two weeks later.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

And that's when they were like.

[Nick Joy]

And that's giving kind of intense.

[Carlos King]

Yes. And then allegedly, allegedly, they tried to say 57 items were stolen and that a few of those items the police found were already returned prior to this alleged burglary.

[Annie]

Yes.

[Justin]

Yeah. And the police are finding this out because they're working with insurance because it's such a large number and they're also.

[Mary]

Saying that wasn't it, that she was seen wearing the ring after claiming it was stolen.

[Carlos King]

So allegedly they're saying that the wedding man that they claimed stolen where the person, the, the. The insurance company gave them the 25, 000 for it, that she was seen wearing it in a recent photo on Instagram. Now, I will say this, I will say this.

[Nick Joy]

Instagram isn't always an accurate timeline.

[Carlos King]

I will say this. Now, could she possibly have bought the same ring with the money?

[Sierra]

Yeah, possibly. Possibly, possibly.

[Mary]

Could she have posted an old photo?

[Sierra]

What's crazy, though, to me is that this is the woman who on the first episode of Potomac this season is like, Eddie is doing so good. He's in this new business. It's thriving. Like, we're doing so well. And talking about just, like, how financially stable they are.

[Nick Joy]

Well, it is fascinating. I'm curious what you think, Carlos. Cynthia, our queen, Cynthia Bailey, came in on Friday to record their episode. She says, hi, by the way. I love her. And this. The news had just broken about Wendy, and Cynthia and I were just kind of talking about, just like, just in general, I would say this about anyone, but like, if, if you're gonna do criminal activities, stay off the TV kind of thing, it's just like, it's not to condone any type of criminal activity, but it's, it's almost shocking some people's willingness to be so publicly in, you know, in the public image. You know, we all know that, like, if you're. You're going to be made example of, you know, potentially especially like a reality TV star, right? Because I think they get, you know, there's like, major celebrity, there's reality TV star. And I think there's several examples of reality TV stars being made an example of by the IRS or, you know, other government agencies, which then, like, begs the question. And, you know, Wendy, and I'm curious, but, like, just in general because, like, Wendy certainly isn't the first Bravo celebrity to, you know, be. Be in trouble with the law, so to speak. There's obviously a type of pressure in specifically Bravo World to, like, live a certain lifestyle, to act a certain way. And this type of, of alleged crime is giving. We can't keep up with a certain lifestyle. And now we, you know, our business isn't as doing well as we claim on TV that it is. And we certainly don't want to be called out for lying about a certain lifestyle and that pressure. And this is in any way condoning if they are guilty of what they did but like, do you feel like that plays a role in this alleged crime, though? The pressure of keeping up with the images that is required specifically of its Bravo celebrities, 100%.

[Carlos King]

I even did an episode on podcast that's dropping next week about the pressures of reality stars when it comes to living up a certain lifestyle, especially when you are real housewives. Because let's be clear, Sister wives ain't trying to, like, look fabulous. Do you know what I mean? Like, come on, like Duck Dynasty, you.

[Nick Joy]

Can live in a trailer.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, like, whatever, you know, like thousand pound sisters, they don't care about, like, looking a certain way with the glamorous lifestyle. There is this pressure. And I spoke to a former housewife over the weekend and she and I were talking about the fact that if you look at what you said. Next, let's look at the global standpoint of women in Hollywood. So actresses, they don't have to pay for glam out of pocket. The studio pays for it because they're promoting their film. When you see someone like Jennifer Aniston go on Jimmy Fallon go on the View to promote the morning show, it's the studio who's paying for her wardrobe, her stylist and everything. You know, glam, all these things.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah. And to that point, when you're like. Cause we'll often try to get certain type of guests, like, you realize that they don't want to do press because, like, they won't be glammed and they don't want to pay for their own glam. So they will only do press when the studio is paying for that glam.

[Carlos King]

Ding, ding, ding. Yes. So when you are a real housewife, specifically, I want the world to know this. Those women, 95% of them, they pay for glam every time they shoot.

[Nick Joy]

And glam costs how much on average?

[Sierra]

Nick Galen, for me, who is using glam, not, I'm sure who these women are.

[Carlos King]

Go ahead.

[Sierra]

500.

[Nick Joy]

That's just for makeup.

[Sierra]

Just for makeup.

[Carlos King]

That's just for makeup.

[Sierra]

Just for makeup. 500 for makeup, 500 for hair.

[Carlos King]

Yes. And then think about it. They have to look great.

[Nick Joy]

They get styled.

[Carlos King]

They get styled.

[Sierra]

It's not a do and go, but it's also not a do and go to do and stay. No, they're staying throughout the whole filming in case they need to touch up.

[Carlos King]

Oh, for sure. Yes. And then on top of that, God forbid, because I've been cussed out before by housewives, like, oh, my God, why didn't the scene make air? I bought this outfit. I want it to be seen. They get upset if they bought an outfit for a and it never sees the light of day. And they're like, are you fucking kidding me? I wasting my money. I'm wearing this shit again the next season. Yeah, it is pressure. It's pressure because the sort of anecdote of the Real Housewives is the fact that you are a fabulous woman. You live behind the gates. And I think a lot of those women, unfortunately, fall into the prey of trying to impress each other, impress the audience. And that's why I said earlier, when it comes to Theresa and Nene, just be yourself. Like, honestly, be yourself, and the audience will ride for you.

[Mary]

And even to that point where I remember Monica's season of Salt Lake City, I remember. I think people found her so endearing because she was talking about the pressure of, like, I'm gonna buy a purse that I don't need to buy, but I want to keep up with the Joneses. And for some reason, that made her so much more endearing to the audience. Cause we're like, no, you don't have to do that.

[Natalie]

We like you.

[Carlos King]

We like you. We like you how you are.

[Sierra]

We like you with Coach.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah, I feel like. And I. It's. And weirdly enough, I just. It's almost seems like some of the Bravo celebrities haven't kept up with how fans have changed their expectations. Because I think just in general, through social media, we appreciate authenticity more than we appreciate, like, the idea of something. And I really think the Monarch is a great example, but, like, the housewife who really is like, I can't afford this shit. I think we would. We would rally behind that person a lot more because we'll look at the Dorit's of the world and mock what we perceive as a person who clearly can't afford this image he's trying to portray, like, it's just not possible for pk. Like, he's the manager of Boy George, and I haven't seen Boy George drop a number one hit in decades. And there's just no way they can. Like, it's just not possible.

[Carlos King]

No, it's insanely impossible. And that's why, listen, the crazy thing is, and I'm sure you all saw this, when it was revealed that Wendy and Eddie were arrested for allegations of fraud and how they lied allegedly about their burglary, everybody started talking about PK and Dorit, and we're like, now, wait a second. We weren't too believed that this happened. And look, I will go on record saying this based on What I've seen on the show, I do think it happened and that I could be the minority in that. I believe they were robbed. Dorit's disposition has changed. Her personality has changed so much that I don't think it was fake. And look, I think based on the crimes that happens in la, unfortunately, they're cracking down on this crime, and I think it would have been revealed if they were not telling the truth.

[Sierra]

Yeah, I agree that Dorit 100%.

[Nick Joy]

You don't think Dorit knew?

[Mary]

I'm with you on that. I'm like, I'm Garcelle's story where I'm like, I don't think Dorit knew.

[Giselle]

I think Dorit thinks that she was robbed. Yes, yes, yes.

[Mary]

PK wasn't here, and PK conveniently overseas, and he was like, you know what? Don't hurt her. I'm just like. I just don't know. The whole, like, the. The whole retelling of the story where it's just like. Like, okay. And then we left the phone next to the front gate, like, what?

[Sierra]

But it's not.

[Mary]

It's.

[Sierra]

It's less of that for me, Sierra, and more of seeing Dorit so visibly shaken. Oh, 100% visible PTSD. And then PK being like, it's not.

[Mary]

That big of a deal.

[Nick Joy]

It's also like, let's move on. It's the potential sloppiness. Like, if you're going to double dip in the sense that you're going to fake have. Have things allegedly stolen from you, file the insurance claim, but still be like, no, I want that shit back. You don't get to keep it. Like, here's. Here's a couple bucks for helping me. Or if PK allegedly did this, he was like, that's just shit she bought. Honestly, I just need the cash, you know, where it's just like, no, you steal it. You know? But I do think sometimes, you know, you get. It's just like, real greedy, real sloppy, and depending what your situation is, you know, you get, the more desperate you get, the messier and sloppier you get. But.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, but it is the pressures, though. And that's why, for me, look, if this turns out to be true, if this turns out to be true about Wendy, I will feel sad that they felt the need to do something like this, because I'm telling you this for sure. And I speak to this not only as her friend, but as a fan of her. And Eddie, if this turns out to be true, we don't need. We don't love Wendy because of her lifestyle. We love Wendy because she's smart, because she calls it like it is and she tells it like it is. And we love the marriage between her and Eddie and we love the family. So that's why I am sort of in this mindset of, like, I just have to believe that something else may have occurred that we're not hearing just yet.

[Justin]

Candace Dillard said something similar where she was saying, the Wendy we all know is a successful businesswoman, her and her husband and, like, they supply jobs to other people. They're not just successful people.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin]

And like, we have to believe that. And we're all finding out the same data at the same time. But, like, we have to believe that maybe she is innocent until proven guilty.

[Mary]

What did Andy say about it?

[Justin]

So, Andy, he basically said, like, all of you, I found out about the charges against Wendy and Eddie Osefo on Friday morning. There's not much I can say. I know nothing of the charges more than you guys do. I'm really sad about this. And, you know, I'm a Wendy fan and she has been a great housewife and a great role model. She's always led with education and her solid family values. And so I'm really thinking about her, is what he said.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Have you reached out to her at.

[Carlos King]

All, Natalie, with the questions?

[Nick Joy]

I love you.

[Carlos King]

Great question. I did. I did. I just texted her and, you know, I did preface it by saying, you do not have to respond to me. Like, I don't. I'm not looking for a response, but I did want to reach out to her to let her know that I am thinking of her. I love her. And, you know, listen, you're innocent of proven guilty. It's honestly how I feel. Until we hear more.

[Sierra]

Yeah, it's your point.

[Carlos King]

No, go ahead.

[Sierra]

I'm curious.

[Carlos King]

Well, I told her not to, so.

[Sierra]

Exactly what you did, you said, don't text me back.

[Justin]

Don't text me back.

[Carlos King]

Don't text me back. I'm here for you.

[Justin]

I was gonna say there are a couple more details if we want to close the loop on the Wendy conversation.

[Carlos King]

Wait, there's more since Friday?

[Justin]

Well, just ones for, like, our audience listening, since we haven't talked about it. One of the things that in the press conference, they were citing the cops is that in the insurance claim, there were memos of Eddie requesting to know if there were additional high value items we can add to this inventory. So implying that maybe he was requesting to add more to get more money. They were Also, they obviously were released on bail for 50,000 and the wife swap episode with Wendy was pulled.

[Mary]

Yeah. Wasn't there only four of those?

[Carlos King]

It's four episodes and Dr. Wendy's episode was the premiere.

[Justin]

The first one.

[Giselle]

So they pushed it. Yeah, they're pushing it a week.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Giselle]

I'm curious what you. If you think that being done by Bravo is, like, an asset to her in the long run for this case.

[Carlos King]

You know, listen, I think Bravo, rightfully so, has to look at their brand and what the brand of Wife Swap is. Do you know what I mean? Like, if this was the Real Housewives, as we saw in the premiere of Potomac, like, they opened up with Karen being released from jail after her DUI conviction. So I think that brand is much more suitable for, you know, continuing on with the story. I think Wife Swap is The fact that Dr. Wendy is in someone else's home and what that may appear in terms of, like, the. The uncomfortableness from the family who was like, you guys have this woman in our house who allegedly did this, and the distraction from a brand new series that they're trying to launch. But yes, it's only four episodes and Dr. Wendy's episode was the premiere. They pushed the date back. And I don't think similarly to the Morocco episode of Ultimate Girls Trip. I don't think we'll ever see this episode.

[Giselle]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Such a good season that we'll never see. Dr. Wendy's team also did release a statement for the people listening. They said Dr. Wendy Oseffo and her husband Edward Osefo, are back home safely and with their family and in good spirits. They're grateful for the outpouring of concern and support from friends, fans and colleagues. The SEFOs alongside their legal team, look forward to their day in court. At this time, they respectfully ask for privacy as they focus on their family and the legal process ahead.

[Sierra]

You know what? They did not say they were innocent.

[Carlos King]

I didn't think about that.

[Sierra]

They did not say we remain to be innocent or whatever that, like, statement is. We can't wait.

[Giselle]

I mean, they say they look forward to their day in court.

[Nick Joy]

They did say that.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah.

[Giselle]

Which does imply.

[Nick Joy]

Well, I mean, guilty people also say that too, though.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, maybe that's a good question, though, though.

[Giselle]

I don't. Maybe this is an unpopular thing to say. Did Wendy and Eddie hurt anybody? No, they just stole, you know, people.

[Nick Joy]

Who pay their alleged deductibles and, you.

[Mary]

Know, insurance in itself is a scam.

[Nick Joy]

But.

[Giselle]

So I don't know.

[Nick Joy]

You Know the people who can't afford insurance if, if insurance companies are paying out millions of dollars in, in settlements. Yeah, that. Yeah, it does. Yeah. Well, I do. Before we jump into house, the reunion of Reunion, Part two of Miami, which was wild, sweet post.

[Carlos King]

That was just crazy.

[Nick Joy]

I've never been so uncomfortable watching a housewife episode.

[Carlos King]

I'm like, Damon, I'm like, I have so many questions about lesbian relationships.

[Sierra]

But now I'm confused.

[Carlos King]

I'm lost.

[Nick Joy]

She's like, do you use scissor?

[Mary]

What's a hookup? What's a situationship?

[Sierra]

What's just padding in the bed? She's padding her.

[Mary]

Heavy padding. Heavy padding, heavy padding.

[Giselle]

The best day of my life.

[Nick Joy]

Bravo Reckoning has been a top epic in reality TV over the past year, year and a half. You know, I, I'm very familiar with reality TV in general. I'm, I've never produced Bravo or been a part as a character on the, you know, but in other reality TV spaces, I'm very familiar with, you know, the Bachelor world and other productions of reality tv. So there are a lot of similarities, even though there are differences. And as we cover these shows, we love to offer some BTs and give some insight of what it's really like. Obviously, as a Bravo producer, I'd love to get your take, but for the most part, and I can't speak to everyone's individual experience on reality tv, but for the most part, I've always found these lawsuits to be incredibly frivolous in the sense that, you know, when people say, you know, what you signed up for, I mean, again, like, everything has pros and cons and risks and rewards and, you know, reality TV can be an incredibly destructive experience for people. We just, we just talked about a whole thing about the pressures of it. It's not great for your mental health. You know, it, it's, you know, there are huge risks of being portrayed in a way that you don't like or appreciate. But so many people are signing up, willing for the rewards of the reality tv and they, they sign up thinking it will never be them. I'll never look bad as long as I'm this. It's kind of the entitlement of thinking they're the star. And then when things don't go their way, so many of them will then blame the edit or producers. And again, like producers I've met, I'm friends with producers, there's some producers. I'm like, you're kind of a terrible fucking person. And it's so, like, there's a spectrum of that, but for the most part, I find that producers in reality tv, from a fan standpoint, and often because they're portrayed from characters who talk about producers as, like, these evil witches and wizards in a tower pulling the strings. And in reality, there's, like, doing a job asking, you know, they'll. I often say that producers will make reality TV stars look better than they look worse, because sometimes those people aren't as interesting as we want to believe they are. They're not as funny or as witty. They're not coming up with the jokes on their own, and they'll be the first to take credit. I've never seen a reality TV star in my life say, actually that. That bit that I'm iconic for, I was fed that line. It's not me.

[Carlos King]

Oh, they're cooking.

[Nick Joy]

The person who did that was. His name was Carlos King. I've never in my life heard that, but I've always keep hearing things like, oh, my God, they made me say that. They made me drink this. You know, it's like, is there alcohol available? Sure is. You know, we're all adults, things like that. But that's just been my perspective. But again, I'm. I don't know Bravo world. Like, you know, Bravo world. But that's my general perception of reality TV in general. But I'm just curious if you agree or disagree.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, no, listen, I agree with you in the sense of, like, look, I'll. I'll speak on my experience. Um, I did Atlanta Housewives seasons one through four, six through nine, and it was an incredible, incredible time in my life. Working for Bravo is like a fashion editor working for Vogue magazine. If you can survive the world of working for Bravo in the sense of, like, how they really teach you how to be a great producer, you can work anywhere in the business. And I give Bravo so much credit for my producing skills because I worked on Atlanta Housewives season one, episode one in 2008. And the education that they taught me is the reason why I'm able to do my job today, telling real stories, really being authentic. What happened is this social media came about, and it's everything you said about the reality star loves the attention, which is fine. You're on television until that person on Twitter eviscerates them, hates them. And then the great experience that the reality star may have had during production, doing pickups, doing interviews, talk to the producers, hey, feed me a line. Like, what sort of catchy line should I say in my interviews? All of that is wonderful. Until these people on social media say, I hate you. Then it's what? Well, they made me look bad. And look, I can only talk about my experience. I can talk about anyone else's. That wasn't my experience working with my girls. And it's the reason why I'm still friends with Teresa Anini Leakes a Kim Zelciak or Sheree Whitfield is because we were all doing the best we could do and that's why the show was so successful. But I do understand when it comes to what social media has brought to these reality stars is not healthy. They're not keeping up with the Joneses for the other girls in the cast. They're doing it to not get talked about on social media. Their. Their momentum is what they want it to be. Until. Honestly, I've seen it happen. I've seen it happen. To where producer get called out the moment someone on social media says, you were such a in this scene. And they're like, well, you didn't see everything. They edited me that way instead of saying, you know what? I had a moment.

[Annie]

I was a bitch.

[Carlos King]

It wasn't pretty. I was a bitch. But guess what I learned from that. I'll do better.

[Nick Joy]

Or just say, thank you for watching.

[Giselle]

I mean, listen, it was good tv.

[Carlos King]

Let me tell you something. I tell reality stars this. There's one housewife who I tell all of my stars to watch and study, and that is Giselle Bryant, who I call Giselle Kobe Bryant because I think she's great. And a little secret for you guys. Giselle doesn't go on Twitter. Giselle doesn't read comments. Some reality stars, you say I don't read, they do. Giselle Bryant does not go on Twitter at all. And that's why she's able to go on do her job and leave. Giselle has never blamed production. Giselle has never blamed the producer. Giselle is this character on the show that you either love or hate. And a lot of people hate her.

[Nick Joy]

Only online, though. But if they were to meet her in person, they would just, you know, just, oh, my God, can I have a picture? I love you. You're the best. You're my favorite.

[Carlos King]

I was with her last week. Her and Robin Dixon, and the fans went wild for Gisele. So again, you can't get caught up in all of that. And I think unfortunately, Nick, the reality star gets caught up in what the person on social media says.

[Nick Joy]

They'd be so much happier if they just didn't know. Ignorance is Bliss.

[Sierra]

The best thing I ever did was restrict my comment sections on Instagram. So it's only people who I follow or people who followed me for years. And it's like, these new people, these, like, people who don't even follow me. I'm not even allowing them the opportunity to comment something under a photo of my family. You know, like, why would I give you that option? It's like, just send it in your group message like a normal person. We do have a rapid recap of the Real Housewives of Miami reunion part two, which was some of the best television I have seen in a long time.

[Carlos King]

Shout out to Audrey Mary.

[Nick Joy]

Mary's very. Mary wrote what we're about to read. I don't know what it is.

[Sierra]

All of rapid recap.

[Nick Joy]

She writes all of them. Thank you. So to the people in the comments. Pulitzer.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Giselle]

To people in the comments that say it's chat GPT. No, it's worse.

[Nick Joy]

Although I do want to know what chat gp. Jet. Chat GPT. I don't want to say about me because I didn't realize. Chat description. Oh, my.

[Sierra]

That was being like. It wasn't that good.

[Nick Joy]

Like, do I want to. Speaking of not listening to the Internet.

[Sierra]

All right. Welcome back to the L Word Miami edition. Julia claims that Adriana mentally and psychologically abused her, which is literally just a lesbian relationship. Julia, you should know this by now. Adriana clarifies they didn't actually have sex because she doesn't have a dick. Stephanie scissoring exists. So J begs to differ. Adriana also infers that Julian Julia is a Russian spy in the group because she changed her name from Julia to Julia. Marisol is like, yeah, all this tracks. Then Adriana feels everything should be put on the table and drops a bomb. Julia was cheating on Martina with a Haitian mortician and had to give him a coffee machine as a gift. She was also fucking a cop. So Julia is like, my wife Martina and I do not have an open relationship, but she does know about everything, and she cried. Adriana tells her dog Basquiat that he needs a new godmother. Previously, it was Julia. Basquiat is shaking at the news. Alexia just wants to know who talks. Adriana finally admits that there was heavy petting, no scissoring, and she does not know what Julia's private parts look like. So, Alexia, if you're still confused, Julia talked. Adriana is what those is. Adriana is what those in the community would call a pillow princess.

[Carlos King]

Who wrote this again? My girl.

[Sierra]

Julia then says Adriana wanted her to leave Martina for her because it would make a great storyline. You may be wondering at this point, how can it get better than this? Well, Adriana presents Julia with a box. What's in the box? You may be asking yourself. Adriana's ripped out heart, which Marisol kicks away. Kiki is like, miss me with that gay shit. I'm celibate. And then Lisa says, Chatgpt says, larsa sucks. Overall. Give this episode a glad award.

[Mary]

You nailed that.

[Nick Joy]

Do you think that she met the cop, the mortician, through the cop who are co workers after, like, investigating a crime. You know what I'm saying? It was a tradition.

[Carlos King]

I'm like, audrey is a lying. Listen, I have so many questions for the lesbian community.

[Annie]

Same.

[Giselle]

Hey, girl, I got you.

[Carlos King]

So look, I know when it comes to, like, heterosexual sex, we know it's sex because one thing enters a hole and it's penetration.

[Giselle]

Yes.

[Carlos King]

Gay men, one thing enters another hole.

[Sierra]

Penetration.

[Carlos King]

Penetration, yes. Lesbians, what is considered sex? Is it.

[Mary]

Is all of it.

[Carlos King]

Is it when the tongue enters, when a finger enters? Or dildo?

[Giselle]

Any and all, but also maybe not, depending on who you ask. Right. It doesn't make any sense at all.

[Carlos King]

I'm lost.

[Giselle]

Okay, so like, some. Some people will be like, oh, so basically what Adriana is saying is that Julia, just, like clitoral stimulation, jacked her off. And that was not sex to her because there was no penetration.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah, we say that's not.

[Giselle]

Well, but Julia is coming from a, like, lesbian married woman. Married. And it's like, yeah, that's if you're. If you're like.

[Mary]

It's kind of like the debate that we have all the time about hooking up. Like, when people say, like, so and so hooked up, you immediately assume sex. Right? And then it's like you come to find out, like, oh, he felt a boob. And it's like, that's not hooking up.

[Nick Joy]

Lesbians play softball. Do you guys round the bases or.

[Giselle]

So? This is. And it, like, depends on. It depends on the person because, right, there are some, like, lesbian. So like, some, like, lesbian, like, tops, they'll call them like a stone. Like, I forget. There's so many different phrases. Guys, don't get mad at me.

[Nick Joy]

Community.

[Giselle]

Basically, there's some, like, lesbians that, like, do not want to be penetrated in any way. And they'll, like, have sex with someone with a dildo. And so they will, like, top in that way. And so to them, like, that is sex. But even though they're not. Not being penetrated and Then there's some people who, like, also don't. Like. Some people just don't want penetration and.

[Nick Joy]

They would still consider themselves as a straight man. The word penetration is jarring, isn't it? Yeah.

[Carlos King]

No, I think the other P word is drawing for a gay guy.

[Nick Joy]

You're like, I just penetrate to sound.

[Mary]

So, yeah, the medical.

[Nick Joy]

Maybe that's just me being straight. I don't know. And. And as Mary's point out, she's only speaking for herself. I'm only speaking for myself, for everyone else.

[Justin]

Yeah, I.

[Carlos King]

It's.

[Giselle]

It gets confusing. And then, you know, lesbians have opinions, so everyone is like, well, this isn't blah, blah, blah, and this isn't blah, blah, blah, and that. So it gets confusing. But I would say just for the drama, they had sex.

[Mary]

They had sex.

[Giselle]

They had sex.

[Mary]

Can we also just agree that, like, Martina did not.

[Sierra]

If.

[Mary]

If she knew about Adriana. Martina didn't know about the Haitian mortician.

[Sierra]

She did not know about the.

[Giselle]

Or the coffee maker.

[Mary]

The way that Julia.

[Nick Joy]

There was speculation that Martina is, like, considering separation. Or is that just a.

[Giselle]

It's a rumor. I believe that's a rumor. At this point, I don't know if anything's going to happen.

[Carlos King]

I don't think she'll leave her for that. I mean, based on what I watched the show, based on Martina's personality. She loves Julia. And I think. And I love me some Julia. I think Julia, unfortunately, is a serial cheater. I just think she cheats on Martina because Martina isn't using anything to penetrate her in the way she wants. And that's why she sleeps with women and men. I believe she slept with the Haitian mortician, the cop. I believe all those things. I don't think Audrianna made that up. Because if that was a lie, you would see Julia react the way she reacted to Gertie. Do you know what I mean? Like, getting highly upset. I think. I think Julia, unfortunately is a cheater.

[Nick Joy]

To that point. The way Julia was just kept saying, like, the word blackmail and how she's like, blackmailing her. First of all, it felt like just like kind of like an aggressive accusation. Psychologically abused, if you're right. But if Carlos, if you're right, that she's a serial cheater, that makes more sense. That if Adriana knew, like, all these instances where, like, Julia is as fucking around and going out out, that it wasn't just this, like, alleged. One time we cuddled one night, and maybe you rubbed me in a way that may or May not be sex, but, like, I know, like, I'm not the only one you've been fucking around with. And that's the thing that Julia is suggesting that Adriana is, like, threatening to, like, expose her.

[Carlos King]

Yes, 1,000%. Look, the thing is this. It's why reality stars. You cannot. Your co stars, your cast members. We seen some things on Atlanta with Kandi and Portia kiss, and it was like, this is going to come out. We've seen it with Brandi Glanville and Denise Richards. It's going to come out eventually. I 1000% believe that Audrianna, who was caught on camera saying I would break the fourth wall. You don't want me to say anything. She wasn't thinking about, in my opinion, their tryst. She was thinking more about what Nick said. You are cheating on Martina. But let's be clear. Audriona is not happy that she went from having a mojito the first two seasons of the show to being a friend of. And she recommended Julia, not thinking that she recommended her replacement. And that's a hard pill for a housewife to swallow. To know that you referred this woman that some consider boring. A lot of people consider Julia boring. And that Audriana should have a mojito.

[Giselle]

Yep. Yeah.

[Carlos King]

So when you're watching this woman go on the Bravo press tour and all those things and you used to be that woman, it's a tough pill to swallow. And I think Audriana, rightfully so. Rightfully so. Feels jealous of all the attention that Julia has received because she doesn't think Julia does as much as she does to earn her mojito.

[Sierra]

I mean, I think after this episode of this reunion, she deserves a mojito.

[Carlos King]

Give her.

[Sierra]

I wouldn't go for you, you dirty little whore. I mean, like, the word volume.

[Giselle]

You miss my sweet little pussy.

[Nick Joy]

You miss my sweet little pussy. Was just insane.

[Giselle]

Giving her her heart. Her broken heart.

[Nick Joy]

We watched the peacock version. Did sweet little pussy make the Bravo?

[Carlos King]

I watched it. Oh, it was. It was riveting.

[Justin]

She's.

[Carlos King]

It's the way she delivered it. You miss me or you miss my sweet little pussy?

[Mary]

Now, how she.

[Giselle]

I was like.

[Nick Joy]

And here's a word from our sponsors. Wendy's must have been like, oh, fuck, she's great. Should we quickly move on to OC before we let Carlos go?

[Carlos King]

Oh, my girls, we should.

[Sierra]

Here's our rapid recap. If you missed the most recent episode of the Real Housewives of Orange County, Katie Janela is back, bitches. I imagine this is how straight men feel when one of those Marvel superheroes returns from the dead. Oh, also Tamara is back after quitting again. Incredible bit. No notes. Emily gets an accessorized cowboy hat to support the Innocence Project because sure. Also, are these hats crocs with giblets for wealthy white women? Pop off in the comments if you agree. So true. We've got Gretchen out here looking like the first lady who did down in Whoville fighting for her life with Emily about Tamara. And you can call Emily the Grinch because she is not charmed by her. When we transition to Jen and Shannon visiting an animal psychic, this is Archie's moment to shine. He reveals through psychic energy that he wants a brother. Shannon is finally getting her man's. Katie reveals Slade is actually the housewife final boss. Heather Dubrow reminds us that she loves the gays Terry serves in bolo tie. Amazing. Shannon is more urban cowboy than hoedown throwdown who while line dancing Gretchen and Slade try to talk to Tamara. She dips because she doesn't like to talk to classless trash. Overall, does Slade have an orange at this point?

[Annie]

He should.

[Sierra]

No. That was the most felt like the most produced moment of Slade being like I want a scene.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

And him looking at Gretchen being like let's.

[Natalie]

Should we?

[Mary]

What did she say?

[Nick Joy]

I have two major thoughts in this episode. One, the, the. The nerve and the kind of braziness of Gretchen to suggest that Slade doesn't get involved. He only gets involved when they involve him. This motherfucker did a standup bit shading Cameron, Vicky, other housewives. Like he was a middle aged man who's like I want to try stand up in my middle age in my whole bit is going to be talking shit and body shaming women. So like please.

[Carlos King]

I love Nick.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

Also I do like listen. I think everyone out there should pay it forward. You should volunteer your time. You should look to do good in your community. Get it off my tv. Your performative. Whatever shit. That's not why I'm watching Housewives Lives. I. I'm get again. I'm glad that Heather and Terry are doing great things. This is not the time to like. I don't care. Keep it off your Instagram stories. You're not doing it for attention. You're not doing it for me to be like queen. You're doing good. I don't give a. It's like when people keep it to yourself.

[Sierra]

Homeless. Yeah, come on.

[Justin]

Hers makes sense though.

[Carlos King]

Homeless.

[Nick Joy]

It immediately becomes performative when you platform your generosity into the community. I'M sorry.

[Justin]

It's just like, it's her family, and it's her family.

[Nick Joy]

Good for her. I don't care.

[Mary]

This is my issue with Emily this season as well, is that I'm just like, yet again, it's another thing that. It's like, you're not talking about yourself and what's going on in your life. It's another thing that's like, look at who I am. Going back to your authenticity of it all. She's the first one that loves to stir up shit in the friend group and tell somebody what somebody else said about them. But then it's like, but also, in my spare time, I heal the nation. Like, no, you don't.

[Sierra]

Also, her sitting with Gretchen in that cowboy hat, that store, and being like, yeah, I told Tamara I don't trust her. And she's pissed. And they're like, what? I would be pissed too, if my friend said they don't trust. That's a fair thing to be upset about.

[Nick Joy]

Why are we friends?

[Mary]

But at also that moment, Emily's thinking, she's telling Gretchen, like, oh, my God, I have your back. I'm on your side. Camera's mad at me. And when Gretchen flipped, it being like, so you're the pot stir. She was like, oh, okay.

[Sierra]

Like, girl, don't call me out.

[Mary]

Yeah, my jerp is.

[Carlos King]

You know what's so sad to me that I had to just accept. And I love this woman so much. Gretchen's comeback is a huge flop. And I. And the reason why I feel bad for her, I think she's being led by Slade. And that's the difference between Gretchen 17 years ago to Gretchen today. I don't recognize this woman. And it saddens me because she used to be fun and have a light in her eye and was like, you know, ditzy, but, like, funny. And will call Tamara out in a very, like, interesting way. When this man tried to confront this woman and Gretchen led the charge was the final stop for me in terms of, like, I can't support this anymore. Cause this is gross. And I don't understand why no one is seeing the fact that Slade is being Gretchen's producer in this whole season.

[Sierra]

I feel like it's obvious, like, every time he's on, like. And there's such a stark difference between Slade and Eddie. You know, like, the way that Eddie is just so clearly support his wife. He's only there to, like, be there with Tamra so she's not alone. And the second that shit hits the fan, he's like, nope, we're out. Like, you're not gonna feed into this. Like, we're leaving. Let's go. And Slade is the first person to be like, oh, I'll argue with.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, you know.

[Nick Joy]

You know. You know that when Eddie's there, Tamara's been like, hey, I need. I need you today.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

And when Slade's there, you know, he's like, hey, I haven't been on in a while.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Justin]

It's giving Alexis Bellino and Johnny J. Y. And I hope Gretchen comes back for another season, selfishly.

[Nick Joy]

But I. I mean, flop or not, I've been enjoying the drama. I've been.

[Carlos King]

The season's been great.

[Nick Joy]

I've been enjoying the. I mean, her. Her.

[Carlos King]

Her.

[Nick Joy]

In the moment. Itm. Whatever people call it in Bravo. World on the flies.

[Carlos King]

Oh, the OTF.

[Nick Joy]

OTF. There are a couple jarring OTF looks from O.C.

[Sierra]

Honestly, Gretchen's style in general is just like. So it's like Stepford White meets Easter.

[Giselle]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

What are your thoughts on Katy?

[Carlos King]

Okay, okay. This is going to be a wild comment, but this is me speaking as producer and a viewer. I find her to be such an enigma that I love it. I think she's a liar, liar, pants on fire. But there is something interesting about her that I want to see more. I wish she would just own it and say, look, motherfuckers, I'm a new bitch in this world. And, yes, I spoke to bloggers because they're my research team, and it's. And it's okay. With that being said, I do believe 100% that Gretchen did tell them at Mastro's.

[Giselle]

Yup.

[Carlos King]

That Tamara allegedly drugged her. I believe it 100%. I think, unfortunately for Katie, she's become the boy who cried wolf. Like, the one time she's telling the truth, the women don't believe her. And I get it. But I think Katie Janela is a fascinating woman that I want to see more of her.

[Giselle]

I agree.

[Sierra]

Why do you feel like. Like she's been gone the last few episodes. I know. She said it was. When they first announced that she wasn't gonna be on the next episode, it was when the girls went to Temecula.

[Nick Joy]

They made it seem like it was some, like, trip.

[Sierra]

It was like, oh, she's just not invited on the cast.

[Annie]

Trip.

[Sierra]

She's not there for a trip.

[Nick Joy]

Really?

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

They act her out in Amsterdam.

[Carlos King]

They ice her out. It's the reason why you. Listen, the way this show works is we have to believe that they're friends. We have to believe it. They have to sell that to us. These are friends. When the majority of those women said, we do not feel comfortable filming with her, they did it to Monica Garcia on Salt Lake City. Right? That's the only reason why she's not back. They were like, we don't feel comfortable, but if you give us this, we're friends. We'll join together, Kumbaya, we'll fight and all that shit, but ice her out. They tried to do the same thing to Katie and Tamara Judge. The moment Emily said, I don't trust you. And then her friend Heather Dubrow said the same thing, Tamara said, oh, bitch, you guys are trying to do to me what you did to Katie. Tamara was smart.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

I will go on record saying this. Those women this season, all of them, even Heather, they want Tamara off the show.

[Nick Joy]

I believe it.

[Carlos King]

That's why they can't control her.

[Nick Joy]

They can't control her. And I think Tamara's smarter than all of them.

[Carlos King]

And that's why Tamra was smart to say, I'll meet with Katie. And that's why Emily. Why was Emily so upset?

[Nick Joy]

Because it only takes one.

[Sierra]

She's like, I'll never talk to you again or something.

[Carlos King]

It only takes one. And then it's the face of OC now, which is Tamra. You mean to tell me this bitch is filming with Katy? Damn it. That means she's back.

[Sierra]

Yep, that's what it was.

[Justin]

Also, to clarify, Natalie, Katy was talking about the Amsterdam trip. That's at the end of the season, right? That hasn't happened yet.

[Sierra]

So she got iced out to twice this season.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Justin]

So she. She does. She's not invited to the Amsterdam trip as far as we know.

[Nick Joy]

Either way. Yeah. I think Tamara making alliances with Katie is genius, because as long as they're willing to film together, then we got a show. Amen. Carlos has been so much fun.

[Carlos King]

I had so much fun. Big guys. Been long overdue. Thanks for having me.

[Nick Joy]

Please come back. I'll be on Carlos's show. I think soon we're doing a little. Little swap. But please come back. Let my audience know where they can find you, follow you. All that fun.

[Carlos King]

Yeah. So my podcast is called Reality with the King. We drop four episodes a week, so find that wherever you get your podcast. And we also are on YouTube as well, and you can follow me at the Carlos King underscore on all social platforms.

[Nick Joy]

All right. All right, up next, we got Annie from Love is Blind Lot to get into with her. Then we'll break down the last few episodes as well. That's all up next.

[Sierra]

Well, you know about 80% of your immune system actually lives in your gut. So when your digestion's off, it can throw everything out of balance, even if you eat healthy and stay active. Gut health is one of those things, things that's easy to overlook, but it makes such a big difference in how you feel day to day. That's why we've been loving the chlorophyll stick packs from Nature Sunshine. Chlorophyll is what helps plants harness the power of the sun. And now you can get that same gentle but powerful daily detox in an easy on the go stick pack.

[Nick Joy]

Just mix it with water and you've got a simple way to support your gut health feel lighter, more energized and more balanced. Plus it comes in refreshing flavors like line, my favorite apple or melon. Your gut health is no joke people. It really matters. As my sister who is a holistic nutrit, always reminding us the importance of our gut health and thanks to Nature Sunshine, we've been improving our gut health and we can really feel the difference. Our energy, like my skin, feels more moisturized. It's incredible how much they people call it your second brain for a reason. So make sure that you're taking care of yourself and doing that with the help of from Nature Sunshine.

[Sierra]

It helps your body eliminate toxins while supporting gut balance and helps fight free radicals and promotes cellular health. What better thing things? Which can you ask for?

[Nick Joy]

Get a daily detox with chlorophyll stick packs. Nature's Sunshine is offering 20 off your first order, plus free shipping. Go to naturessunshine.com and use code V I A L L at checkout. That's code V I A L L at N A T U R E S s u n s H-I-N-E.com that's naturesunshine.com with code v I a l l Audible's Romance collection has something to satisfy every side of you when it comes to what romance you're into. Here's your invitation to have it all here. Modern romcoms from authors like Lily Chu and Ali Hazelwood. The latest romantic series from Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarrow's Regency favorites like Bridgerton and Outlander, plus all the really steamy stuff. Even outside of romance, Audible is the best place for audiobooks. With thousands of audiobooks, Audible makes it easy to enjoy great stories anytime. Whether you're commuting, working out, or just relaxing. Even with me, always on the go. Listening with Audible has made it possible to turn those brief in between moments into small ghetto and ways with my favorite story. Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.comv I A L L again, that's audible.comv I A L L Annie, welcome to the show.

[Annie]

Hi, thanks for having me.

[Nick Joy]

Thanks for joining. We really appreciate. Where are you? Is that like a real background? Where are you calling from? Looks a very sunny. Are you on vacation or.

[Annie]

I'm actually in la. Oh yeah.

[Nick Joy]

Do you live here now?

[Annie]

No, I don't. I still live in Denver. Just here for the weekend.

[Nick Joy]

Okay. All right. What brings, what brings you to Los Angeles?

[Sierra]

Aren't you on our couch?

[Annie]

Just here for. Here for fun time. Needed to go to the pool and.

[Nick Joy]

Okay.

[Annie]

Yeah. Kind of fall in Denver and needed to get out of the house.

[Nick Joy]

All right, well, you've certainly been making waves this season. Lots of drama. We, we love the drama. I always like to start these interviews by just like, what has this experience been like for you? I'm curious, like, what made you sign up for such a crazy experiment and has it been what you thought or hoped it would be?

[Annie]

Be? I. So I actually had a bunch of people reach out to me on Instagram and they were like, hey, you would be a great fit. You really should like apply for Love is Blind. We think it'd be really great for you. And I think I was just the right demographic. I was single, successful, working in Denver and I own a hair salon. So I don't really meet guys at work, you know, and like dating. We were on the apps in Denver. I was trying, I was like, would be friends of a friend. And it just, I got to be very successful. I had my salon, we opened a spa. We were just continuously growing and it kind of felt like the only thing I was missing was a partner. You know, it was like very successful, very self made. And I was like, but who am I going to share this with? And it kind of. I didn't have anybody, so the opportunity kind of just fell into my lap and of course I was happy to take it. And.

[Nick Joy]

Okay, did you go into this experience thinking that maybe you were leading too much with physical appearance or just not sure how you would re respond to falling in love behind a wall? Like, what was your point of view on that?

[Annie]

Well, for me it's. I feel like people see me and they're like, oh, I, she's cute, she's blonde. Like, of course I Love her. And it was like I felt like I wasn't being heard or, you know, people weren't getting to know me really. And so then dating in the pods, it was amazing because I could sit there and really get to know somebody before I got to see them. You know, they would get to hear about, like, how I grew up, how, like, you know, my parents raised me, you know, growing up in a really small town, it's like our values are, you know, really important. And seeing again, like, I love to work. I work a ton. And I think kind of instead of, like, hiding behind that, like, physical appearance, it was. People really got to know who I am, like, how my mind works that and, you know, fall in love with, you know, my mind instead of my physical appearance.

[Sierra]

How has it been watching it back for you?

[Annie]

Oh, my God, terrible.

[Sierra]

I saw you post, like, it was exposure therapy or something.

[Annie]

I literally. I actually made a post about that. I was joking. It was like, I've had to rewatch it. It's like exposure therapy. You're, like, watching yourself go through the craziest emotions over and over and over. And I think for me, watching myself, like, fall in love with Nick and also having another connection, and I think I'm watching the breakup is like, it's like going through them over and over again, too. One of my clients is so funny. She was like, you didn't tell me I was going to need tissues as she's watching me break up with this guy I've never even met. So.

[Nick Joy]

Were you aware that Nick was seemingly so disliked with the rest of the group? Or is that something you discovered as it was airing?

[Annie]

No, I ended up finding that out out kind of when everybody else did.

[Nick Joy]

And I guess, what was your perspective? Because I'm sure you spent the most time with him. Was it something where that you kind of saw once people pointed it out, or did you feel like, you know, the Nick that we're seeing or the Nick that other people got to know maybe had an unfair representation of. Of who he is?

[Annie]

I. I think a little bit of both. I think Nick, he's, like, misunderstood. You know, he, like, means the best, but sometimes he just doesn't present that way. He can be kind of, I don't know, like, I guess, socially awkward a little bit. Sometimes he doesn't read the room right, and we'll say something that you're like, oh, you know, maybe. Maybe you would have kept that inside. But it was kind of disappointing to realize that the other guys really didn't like him. And I think it. As our relationship progressed, though, I. I could understand, like, well, you know, he's just a very. Kind of misunderstood, but also just. I don't. He's not always super genuine. I don't. I don't know that he knows how to present that to people. You know, it's almost like he's always kind of hiding behind something.

[Sierra]

Who are you closest with from all the girls?

[Annie]

I'm actually really close with Madison. She's great. She lives, like 15 minutes from me. We hang out a lot. And then some of the other girls that weren't shown quite as much, my girlfriend Shelby, she's actually here in LA with me. And then Hillary and Asia, so we all became really great friends. I'll tell you, like, that was the best thing to come out of this is the new girlfriends. They're the best.

[Nick Joy]

One thing we did want to ask you. Obviously, there's been a scene, I'm sure you know what we're talking about that has been highly talked about, highly criticized. The scene in the pods with you and Nick, or Nick asked you, you, if you were to have a child in the queer community or identify as part of the queer community, how you would feel about that. Obviously, a lot of people found your response to be insensitive. You know, obviously the people. There's a lot of people in my life that I love, friends and family who certainly don't think who they love is a phase or anything like that. So I just, like, wanted to give you an opportunity to want you to ask. Watching that back, first of all, like, is there anything you want to. To say in response to your comments? The floor is yours.

[Annie]

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's in the pod. They're asking us really hard questions because they want us to find a partner. Like, these are different things that they kind of. They kind of bring up. And so by Nick asking me what I would do if my child came out to me as lgbtq, I paused because I have a lot of people like my family, I have a lot of friends that are also queer in the community. And I think for me, my answer, it was that pause that people are really upset about. It's. The answer is I would love my kids no matter what, I would support them in anything that they do. And this group of people is already fighting adversity. They're already kind of struggling. They're having to face these, you know, people that don't accept them. Of course, I would never want to be one of those people that looks like I don't accept, you know, anyone in the queer community, because, of course, everyone deserves love and especially my children. And I think, again, my kind. My pause and my answer then was just thinking about my friends and my family that have had to face these really difficult seasons of their lives as coming out and maybe not being accepted. And I would never do that. And I would always love my children, my friends, my family, and support anyone in the queer community.

[Sierra]

When Nick asked if it was a fad and you said 100%, was that a genuine question and answer or was that edited?

[Annie]

No, I don't think being gay is a fad, period. However, that part of that conversation is. It actually was clipped from another part that we were talking about. We were talking about something very different, and it just happens to be. Because you can see it. Do you think it's a fad? It doesn't specifically say, do you think being gay is a fad? Which, again, I do not think being gay is a fact fad. But that was just clipped very conveniently after that conversation.

[Sierra]

What was Nick asking you? What was a fad?

[Annie]

So we were actually talking about how, like, sex sell. We were talking about sex and over sexualization, like in kids shows. So we were kind of bonding over how we weren't allowed to watch SpongeBob when we were little. And so we were talking about that. And so we were talking about how do we think putting sex, like, you know, out into the world is a bad, like, overusing sex, selling sex over sexualization and kid shows. That was what we were talking about.

[Nick Joy]

Is there anything else that you feel as you've been watched that you feel like that's not me or. I don't. I don't remember it that way.

[Annie]

Anything specific, Honestly, I will say basically the whole show. Unfortunately, I think by the time we got to Mexico, we were so exhausted. And there's the scene of me, like, laying in bed, just, like, having. Having a full crash out. And then I went to bed, like, thinking that we were done, and the camera crew came in and was like, hey, we're actually gonna film some more. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm so tired.

[Nick Joy]

The scene where you were like, I don't need you, I want you whole. Was that as confusing to you watching it back as it was to us?

[Annie]

Yeah, actually kind of when you're, like, forcing something to work and, like, filling the silence. Silence. It's almost like the cameras are on you. And I'm like, oh, God, I just have to say something. And it's like they're just like poking the bear, like, say something, say something. And it finally just came out as, God, I don't need you, I want you here. And it just, I feel like that continued through the rest of every episode with me just looking like a crazy caged animal.

[Nick Joy]

Well, I imagine that that comes from a place of, you know, the pressure of knowing that there's an expectation of marriage at the end of this experiment other than alcohol being involved. Is it all of you trying to figure out a way to really understand your partner's feelings and your feelings towards them and the sincerity behind it. And are you. What are some of the other maybe questions and ways that you guys tried to like, learn about each other that maybe we didn't get to see?

[Annie]

We would spend tons of time together. He actually came to the salon with me. Me, we're going through a really big renovation. I was opening a spa. He helped me kind of do construction there. And that was like, very reassuring for me. I was like, oh, well, he's going to help me with my business. He's always going to be, you know, here to support me. And that was something we really bonded over. And then especially like meeting his family, meeting his parents, meeting some of his friends and really just like spending that quality time together, getting to know each other. There really were good moments and like, we just, we get along really well. We're very compatible. Obviously we have our issues and, you know, we're figuring out how to navigate.

[Nick Joy]

Those from watching it back. Who do you think if anyone is, baby? Maybe being misrepresented, whether you feel like they're, they're coming across as more likable than you remember, or someone is getting shit or, or criticism that you think maybe isn't quite deserved.

[Annie]

I think Brendan got a pretty sick edit. He, he looks great. I think everybody loves Brendan and the amount of messages that I've gotten that are, you should have chose Brendan, you chose wrong. You chose the wrong person. I are astonishing.

[Sierra]

What did we not see?

[Annie]

Raising?

[Nick Joy]

Yeah, what do you.

[Carlos King]

What did we see?

[Annie]

He is, he's very sweet. He's very surface level. It's. There was no deeper conversations with him as much as I tried kind of in the pods. Like, the concept is that, you know, your dates are short and they get longer the less matches that you have. So on our second to last day, our date was four hours. Yeah. So I had a four hour date with Brendan and then a four hour date with Nick. 45 minutes into my four hour date with Brendan, I really kind of Okay, I have. I'm experiencing another connection. It's going really, really well. And, you know, is there something you can do to maybe help me, you know, be more secure in our relationship? Help me, you know, know that this is right for us? And he ended up. He got upset with me, Me, and in his head, he decided that I was going to choose Nick over him. And he got up and left. So I sat there. I had, you know, another three hours and 15 minutes to just sit there and.

[Nick Joy]

Or you had to stay there.

[Annie]

You don't have to. And so, like, I stayed for a little bit, and I ended up getting up and leaving. But it's like we had. We had, you know, another three hours and 15 minutes to unpack it and, like, connect and really talk about. About it. The other part that's kind of not shown a ton either is there was another girl named Annie, and she's Annie L, which I'm also Annie L. So it was Annie and Annie L. Right. Well, those were also Brendan's top two choices. So it kind of just like, messes with your head. You're like, all right, where's my reassurance? Like, you have two Annie's. Like, which is. Which is the right Annie? And I just remember her coming back into the lounge and telling me, I just had the most amazing, deep, emotionally connected conversations with my match. And I was like, you know, you kind of start putting two and two together. I was like, oh, I'm friendon. Like, okay, cool. Like, maybe he is capable of a good, you know, emotional, you know, conversation and so going in and him just getting frustrated and leaving it. It does look like I just, like, chose Nick instead of Brendan. But it was like he really showed his true colors where, you know, it gets tough and you just up and leave or you don't face the issue head on. I was like, all right, that was kind of a check. Checkbox.

[Nick Joy]

I'm curious. Like, you know, obviously, again, this such a crazy experiment that you guys all go through, and some seasons talk about it more than others, but, you know, sex was. Was definitely talked about this season. I. I'm just curious as somebody was part of this experiment, like, what conversations and when was the first time you guys had a conversation, if at all? Because maybe you guys just, like, you know, saw each other and hooked up. But obviously there's this, like, weird thing of you feel like you've known this person forever, you're literally engaged, yet you've only spent less than probably an hour of FaceTime with each other. And it is such a fascinating conversations about physical intimacy in this experiment. I am just curious, like, how you went into this experiment. What. What with what expectations or boundaries that you had. Did any of that change once you got engaged? And then how did you and Nick navigate that conversation that led to phys. Physical intimacy?

[Annie]

Honestly, it's like, really easy. It was very, like, natural, at least for us. Like, you know, kind of like when the doors open and we were like, revealed to each other, I think the physical attraction was there. And then they take you to Mexico. They like, put you on a honeymoon, basically, and it's like, beautiful place. They cut you off. There's like, no phones, no Internet, no, like, nothing. There's like, literally not even the music. You're sitting in this hotel room with this, like, attractive person that you're so emotionally connected to. So it kind of just like, of course, yeah.

[Nick Joy]

You're just like, I. I want to get laid on this. Like, if I don't get laid on this vacation, like, I'm like, I'm not getting my money's worth.

[Annie]

I know. I was joking. I was like, of course we're in love. You literally set us up.

[Mary]

You know, was there anybody that you were surprised to see in person during the mixers that, like, you talk to.

[Natalie]

You in the podcast?

[Annie]

I actually, I was shocked to see my dream that was. I remember this is no shade to Mike. He's a great person. I like, love him as a friend, but I remember writing like, you know, you have to rank everybody. And I remember meeting Mike on the first date and just being like, no, like, circle. I was like, oh, no.

[Sierra]

How did it make you feel to hear Nick kind of pitching himself to Sparkle Megan to be her, like, Cartier dealer? Did it make you feel like, oh, he's, you know, such an entrepreneur. He's so motivated to continue his business. Or were you like, that feels like, icky.

[Annie]

It just. Honestly, it was so. I feel like it was in so passing. Like, it's just. It's hard because, like, that's his industry. That's what he does. He sells Cartier. He sells watches. So it wasn't something that, like, bothered me. And I was like, all right, well.

[Sierra]

You know, did he have any pieces that he gave to you?

[Annie]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Sierra]

So nice.

[Annie]

He gave me a calculator watch that was.

[Nick Joy]

Oh, my God. He gave. That's what he gave to you? Because I'm watching it back being like, how ironic that the person dating the luxury watch dealer is wearing the old school calculator. Watch you can buy for $6?

[Annie]

Yeah, he gave me a calculator watch for, like, 25 bucks off of Amazon. He was like, good, babe, I love you so much. Have a calculator watch.

[Nick Joy]

It's kind of a dick move.

[Natalie]

I have one question. How did you feel watching back now, Nick and Kate's relationship?

[Annie]

I don't know. I have a hard time. Like. Like, again, there's people that you're just not quite friends with, and I think that was unfortunately someone that I didn't click well with. And I think watching that back and like, really, sir? Come on, dude.

[Mary]

So did Nick not actually tell you how he told Kate that he told you that he was in love with both of you and everything was that?

[Annie]

No. So I did know. Um, but I think it, again, I'm probably a little bit more forgiving because I did have, like, a connection with Brendan at the same time. That was, like, very intense. It was. We hadn't told each other that we loved each other yet. I think it's still just, like a very intense process. And I think people are so hyper fixated on that. They're like, well, he told her that he loved her and he told you. I'm like, oh, my God. Have you never told somebody that you love them? Come on. I don't think he specifically bothers me in that. I think the fact that. That she was so hyper fixated on it, that everyone is so hyper fixated on. Well, he told her that he loved her. And it's like, yeah, we all did. We were all doing that. I don't think that was fair, actually, for them to be tearing him apart over.

[Natalie]

And then I know you said you were really close with Madison. How did you feel at the end of episode nine, watching back, kind of like Madison and Joe both talking about Nick in that way, where Madison was, I think, talking to Kate about how, like, nobody likes him. Do you feel like she should have said something to you?

[Annie]

Yeah, actually, I think, like, those are my friends. I kind of. I did expect them to say maybe something, but I think we were again, just kind of in that moment, like, blissfully unaware, you know, when you're just. It's like, still, like, brand new. And I'm like, no, he's great. He's perfect. And, you know, meanwhile, my friends are in the background like, hey, girl, slow down.

[Nick Joy]

Okay, any. Anything you want to leave us with or have anything to say before we let you go?

[Annie]

I had people leaving one star reviews for my salon calling me a homophobe. And I Just want to be so clear. Like, I am not a homophobe at all. Like, I completely support the queer community. I think it's. Those are some of my best friends.

[Nick Joy]

And best of luck of the rest of the way. We're certainly excited to see how things play out.

[Annie]

Me, too.

[Nick Joy]

Yeah. Best of luck. Take care.

[Sierra]

Have fun on your vacation.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

Enjoy la.

[Annie]

Thank you.

[Justin]

All right.

[Nick Joy]

Bye. Bye, Annie.

[Carlos King]

Bye.

[Annie]

Bye.

[Nick Joy]

Bad showing for my boy Edmund.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Giselle]

Rough day for him.

[Nick Joy]

KB really ate in this episode.

[Natalie]

I don't understand their fight. Can you.

[Nick Joy]

Well, I don't know what their fight was about. I don't really remember, but it's because.

[Mary]

It's because another couple of maybe was Nick and Annie. That Annie was like, oh, he's just perfect. He's the best. And he's like, no, no, no. Like, it's.

[Natalie]

Nick was saying that.

[Mary]

And then Edmund was like, oh, that must be so nice to hear.

[Annie]

Year.

[Mary]

That's perfect. I wish I heard that more. To which Calabria was like, why are you saying this? As if I don't say nice things to you or compliment you enough? And Edmund doubles down with, you don't compliment me enough for, like, what was the last nice thing you said?

[Giselle]

Which is crazy, because all she does is gas him up.

[Sierra]

All she does. My sensitive king. My baby, my love. She's always incredible either way.

[Nick Joy]

Her biggest criticism was, was, why are you doing this here now, in front of our friends? Which is a more than fair criticism in any relationship for anything. Like, you do that in the privacy of your home.

[Mary]

And that's what she said.

[Nick Joy]

The number one thing that Natalie and I have learned in our relationship, that honestly, like, protects our relationship, is that if we have shit to talk about, we don't do it in front of other people. We're not winning fights in front of other people. We're not asking people to take our sides in front of other people. We respectfully, like, take that shit off line. Because often you might say something that, like, you disagree with or you're not on the same page. And Edmund has the right to maybe feel like, well, you say this, but I don't really receive it that way. What? Doesn't matter. I was so disappointed in Edmund. Just like, but I love you so much. Like, his default was to. I don't want to call it love bombing, because that's not, like, what. I don't think it more came across as someone very emotionally immature. Didn't know what to say, didn't know how to articulate his emotions and his response to Being called out and probably realizing that KB Was right was to just say, I love you, I love you. And his version of having a deep conversation was to just say, I love you, which was just, like, so disappointing for my boy.

[Sierra]

And to hear KB Be like, I have told you this now multiple times. To, like, stop saying I love you. To, like, get out of these tough conversations. Like, this isn't that. That's not a response. It's not like we need to actually have this conversation. And I love you, like, doesn't mean anything to me right now.

[Mary]

With all due respect. I'm just like, Edmond's just not in a place who's ready. He's not ready for marriage. Simple as that. Because the second that he also realized that KB Was upset and he said, you should walk away or whatever, and then he walks away. He goes up to a group of people and is instantly like, oh, I'm gonna be. I'm dead.

[Sierra]

Yeah, she's gonna kill me.

[Mary]

She's gonna kill me. And it's just like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You either work this out with your partner or you act like nothing else is happening but to bring it to the table.

[Nick Joy]

How old is he?

[Mary]

That I don't know.

[Nick Joy]

That man has been through a lot, 100%.

[Sierra]

And I'm sure a lot of this is, like, a trauma response. I'm sure that he has.

[Giselle]

He's been through.

[Mary]

Through a lot and needs to, like, work through some. Some. Some of his emotions and, like, the things that he's gone through. And I just don't think that that's with your future partner. Like, I feel like that's somebody that, like, he needs to really work through whatever is haunting him. But I'm like. And that's the thing. I give KB So much credit because she's also a social worker, so it's like she has a lot more patience and understanding for his circumstances. But I will say, most people wouldn't be able to handle somebody so emotionally unpredictable.

[Nick Joy]

How does Joe.

[Justin]

He's 29.

[Nick Joy]

He's also.

[Mary]

And you want to talk about emotionally immature?

[Nick Joy]

Well, I was going to talk about his apartment.

[Mary]

Of course you were.

[Nick Joy]

That was tough. Tough for Joe.

[Giselle]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

That little baby oven.

[Mary]

He's just so insecure. Like, the way he needs to, like, shit on other men to be, like, to make himself feel better. And it's like, bro, you're not the prize that you're competing with.

[Nick Joy]

What does he do for work? He could just be wanting to live.

[Justin]

A simple life in sales. Sales not specified but sales, that means.

[Mary]

You'Re a people person, right? Or you have to be working with people, not necessarily for sales.

[Nick Joy]

No one would describe me. I mean, I can be a people person, but that's not my resting.

[Mary]

But you had to like.

[Sierra]

Yeah, but you know how I know how?

[Mary]

What do you mean? You literally talk to people on a regular basis.

[Sierra]

You're definitely a people person.

[Mary]

And sales help you get there.

[Nick Joy]

I can be. But you know, again, semantics. But usually people in sales are money motivated and a little superficial. Official materialistic even. So, it is a bit shocking to see Joe. Whether it's by necessity or maybe he's just like, I don't know. I don't need much. I'm a single guy.

[Sierra]

I think he's so funny. I think everything that comes out of his mouth is hysterical. Him at the end of the night being like, Nick's not my guy. He's somebody's guy.

[Giselle]

He is funny. I do think Joe is very funny. Don't want to be in a relationship.

[Sierra]

Absolutely not.

[Giselle]

You know what I mean?

[Sierra]

My nightmare of a relationship.

[Giselle]

Would love to like, like goofing gap.

[Mary]

With that guy though.

[Sierra]

Funny banter.

[Giselle]

Same with. Same with Edmond.

[Mary]

I'm on an island alone because I.

[Sierra]

You don't like him?

[Mary]

No.

[Nick Joy]

But Joe's never cooked in his life.

[Sierra]

Yeah. Pulling out the. You know, I think he definitely makes eggs in that pot.

[Nick Joy]

Hunting. As someone who enjoys cooking and says, yeah, I want to cook on that, you know, you just don't.

[Giselle]

What did you guys think of Sparkle, Megan and Jordan hunting?

[Nick Joy]

Honestly, my biggest takeaway was was that looked like a very cookie cutter piece of $2 million house.

[Sierra]

Yeah. I was not impressed.

[Nick Joy]

Terrible view.

[Sierra]

Million dollars.

[Carlos King]

It was cute.

[Justin]

The, like wooding above the.

[Nick Joy]

Listen, by anyone's standards, obviously anyone be lucky to live there. I'm just saying for that price point.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

It. It didn't.

[Carlos King]

It wasn't giving.

[Giselle]

They're not getting a good deal.

[Nick Joy]

It wasn't giving my. Their. Their heart was in it. It was giving Cookie cutter. It was giving Spec Hop house. Yeah, it was.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Giselle]

I was more curious your guys's thoughts on kind of the idea of the financial aspect of Joe and Megan. Sorry, not Joe. Yeah.

[Sierra]

I think it's like, listen, she has a lifestyle that she has lived clearly on her own for some time. She has, I guess a house in LA that she's planning on selling and getting 1.54 she says. And I think, yeah, she's like, listen, I want to live in a business, big house and like I have the means to pay for it if you can help with whatever it is you want to help with, and then we can, like, continue to grind together. But, like, I. I don't want to live in an apartment. I want to live in a big house. I want there to be room for your son. I want there to be room for future kids. I think it's valid. I also think Jordan is valid to be like, I kind of feel like a mooch.

[Giselle]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Well, I mean, I'm glad he did, to be honest. Like, I'm glad he wasn't like, oh, yay.

[Sierra]

Jackpot.

[Giselle]

Yeah. I think it, like, is. Is a good reflection of his char to kind of be a little bit uncomfortable with that.

[Natalie]

You know, this is what Megan wanted, like, when she first went in. She wanted someone who wasn't going to want her for her money. And also, like, somebody who was like, Jordan, almost exactly like, he works for his own money. He, like, wasn't attracted to her because she drove a nice car. I still want to know what car she drives.

[Sierra]

And, like, I'm surprised we haven't seen that yet.

[Giselle]

Still think it's a cybertruck, but, yeah.

[Natalie]

I feel like Jordan is, like, exactly what Megan set out to. To find.

[Nick Joy]

It's a very modern relationship in a sense that, like, here's a successful woman and a guy who financially is, you know, not. Not that he's not successful, but financially, he's not making a ton of money. And when there's a disparity in earning potential between a man and a woman that, like, as we've heard from a lot of our women audience, that can create resentment. It can create, you know, emasculation. Yeah. And, And. And I, you know, I know a lot of women who identify as progressive who still, like, have some very traditional preferences.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

Let's just say. And when it comes to earning potential, that sometimes is one of them. If for no other reason, it is hard to find a man who truly is comfortable with the disparity in earning potential. That being said, like, it can work. It just really, you. You have to feel like you're doing your part. Right. Because money is just one aspect of it. Right. And if you. If you're. If you're used to making money, you realize that while. While there's certain advantages of. Of not having to stress about money, there are just other. A lot of other things that go into making a relationship work and, and just having a true partner and approaching that relationship as a team, whether it's just helping around the house, supporting each other. With their passions and careers. If he is, whatever he does for work, as long as he's passionate about it, gives a shit about it, takes pride in it, and contributes in whatever ways. The. The. The. The group. The relationship needs contribution. It can work. The hard part is, is that there's a lot of couples in that dynamic don't look at it that way.

[Sierra]

I also think the absolute G. That's a word, right?

[Mary]

Yes. You used it correctly.

[Annie]

Her.

[Nick Joy]

We'll see where this goes.

[Sierra]

When Mike pulled Sparkle Megan and was like, first, do you want to dance? Sorry, that's insane. Second, to be like, do you feel like you made a mistake?

[Natalie]

Nope.

[Sierra]

I'm sorry.

[Mary]

Haven't thought about you since.

[Nick Joy]

It is bold to ask. It is.

[Annie]

It is.

[Sierra]

It is bold to ask. And like.

[Nick Joy]

But you can ask.

[Mary]

But I love. But I loved how she handled it.

[Natalie]

I think the thing with Mike is, like. I mean, you even saw, like, in the men's quarters where you had, like. I think it was Nick who was like, he threw out that the. The line of she's going to need an EpiPen when she sees you kind of thing.

[Sierra]

Oh, my God.

[Natalie]

They were all, like, gassing him up. And he's got, like, a big ego. And so I think that, like, only someone with a big ego would say that.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick Joy]

And Jordan is better looking?

[Natalie]

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think Jordan's really good looking.

[Nick Joy]

He's a handsome guy.

[Giselle]

Jordan's like the. The part of me that grew up playing Tony Hawk, pro skater, I'm like.

[Sierra]

Yeah, except for the one.

[Nick Joy]

If you were to go the other way, you'd go for a Jordan.

[Giselle]

Like, there's something about, like, a skater dil. You know, it's kind of cool.

[Natalie]

Well, there's.

[Sierra]

He's got one.

[Mary]

One flaw. And what is the deal with the blended chicken smoothie?

[Sierra]

And also, like, crystal light.

[Giselle]

Thank you. Yeah, thanks for bringing that up.

[Mary]

The second you said, I went, oh, my God. Like, I just had a flashback remembering, like, that.

[Annie]

And.

[Mary]

And she drank it too.

[Sierra]

No.

[Natalie]

Why?

[Mary]

What's wrong with the protein shakes? Is this, like, Is it because he said it was, like, organic, that he.

[Sierra]

Deserved to go to prison for that? And honestly, like, the fact that she was so down to take a sip.

[Nick Joy]

Like, set your boundaries.

[Mary]

You have your thing.

[Sierra]

Do that.

[Mary]

If you want to chug chicken, do that.

[Sierra]

I would have tasted it, too. Curious. And the crystal light of it all. Like, first of all, why? To give it, like, flavor pour. Like, where's the lowes? Like, why are you.

[Nick Joy]

If you're going for flavor.

[Sierra]

What's flavor? Water. Not chicken.

[Giselle]

Yeah, that's.

[Natalie]

But I'm also like, if you're using chicken, you're clearly trying to like get away from added chemicals in your food.

[Mary]

Like, and then you did Crystal Light.

[Carlos King]

Yes.

[Giselle]

That was crazy.

[Mary]

And that was her point. She was like, why can't you just cook eight eggs?

[Giselle]

I think I honestly, I kind of forgot about that. I think I blacked it out. I think I blacked out.

[Mary]

It was atrocious.

[Sierra]

It's one of those things where you're like, oh God, I can't watch. It's like, like. And they like the close up on it and then the drinking. It just, all of it was bad.

[Nick Joy]

I'm getting less and less Relationships.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

By the second.

[Justin]

Who.

[Annie]

Wait.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Who do you think will make it to the altar and say, I think.

[Nick Joy]

The only possibility is Sparkle Mega Jordan. I think it's the only one. I'm not sure. I'm not certainly sold on it. But like KB and Edmund, there's no way she. I mean she already knows like sweet man. I. My heart. Like, I think she loves the person, but she just sees this is not a person that can ever.

[Sierra]

I think it's too much work for her. Right. Like he needs to just do some work on himself. I think Ally and Anton. She was already filming Perfect Match.

[Mary]

I forgot it.

[Nick Joy]

I keep forgetting about them.

[Carlos King]

Wait, was she.

[Justin]

I didn't see that him.

[Sierra]

But she will be.

[Nick Joy]

No, she will. That's how speculative.

[Giselle]

The whole strip club. Yeah.

[Mary]

They're lying about this thing.

[Giselle]

Like the thing is I do really see that. Like I really do see them as a couple in the way that they are like that really toxic couple that you know that they're like they're going to break up and then they would get back together and then they would break up again.

[Nick Joy]

Like they're going to have. They're going to have breakup sex for sure.

[Giselle]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

The way that this man, if any man is like, we haven't taken shots yet. It's 2pm on a Tuesday.

[Nick Joy]

Like, you're a partier. You're an alcoholic. Probably. You're probably an alcoholic.

[Mary]

Believe. Then they were saying they spend their night shifts, come home, they have time to sleep, to go back to work. And then he's over here like mimosas, beers. And she's like, he, he, he'll pop two beers in between coming home from his shift.

[Nick Joy]

And I'm like, you party, dude.

[Mary]

Yeah, like she's concerned. And you lied all through those pod days.

[Sierra]

It's Like, I'm going to be honest there. Five o' clock somewhere does not exist when it. It is 7am in the morning.

[Nick Joy]

If you're over the age. Listen, if you're. If you're over the age of 22 and you're saying it's five o' clock somewhere, you have a drinking problem.

[Mary]

If you have something in your house.

[Sierra]

That says it's five o' clock somewhere.

[Justin]

I was going to say and have.

[Giselle]

A drinking problem as someone from Florida. That's true.

[Nick Joy]

Hey, pop off. I'm just saying you might want to look into it. I want, you know, like, it's right.

[Mary]

And then it's like the fact that it wasn't his family, it was a friends. And then it was just like, did we not have a prep talk before this?

[Sierra]

Also, it's his friend and his friend's girlfriend of four months. Like, yeah, I guess. But, like, doesn't really feel like they can speak on.

[Nick Joy]

Like, there's zero chance they're still together. And what a win for her. Like, she got a. She got a TV appearance after four months of dating and she got to.

[Sierra]

Go to the bathroom and spill the fucking tea on the wrench, by the way.

[Giselle]

They both suck.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

I want to know the timeline, though, because I'm like, like, when was this dinner with the friend and then when was the mixer? Because, like, how have they still not talked about it? Like, Anton went up to Ali and was like. And was, like, sensing weird vibes.

[Annie]

And she's like, we'll talk about it later.

[Sierra]

I'm like, well, I'm sure we. They. They just didn't have the footage because they don't have cameras on the inside of the house or if they're camp.

[Mary]

Still, if they're living together, you know, Ali, like, after that, came home and went straight to bed. She was like, I don't want breakfast with you. I don't want mimosas. I will not be waiting to greet you.

[Nick Joy]

They had. They both had their own individual ribeye for a steak and eggs breakfast. That was huge. Natalie and I will, like, cook a dinner and share a steak and then sometimes have leftovers to have a little steak and eggs. Like, when you have steak and eggs, like, isn't it a whole.

[Mary]

That's a lot of proteins.

[Sierra]

A huge T. Bone pan.

[Mary]

They needed to invite Jordan over to show him what a full protein meal is.

[Nick Joy]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Sierra]

Well, we'll see what the next batch has to offer us.

[Nick Joy]

Well, I think it'll wrap it up for today's episode thank you to our guest, Carlos King and Annie from Love is Blind. Tomorrow for the going deeper. You are not going to want to miss Robert Irwin and his dancing partner Whitney Carson. It is, it was just a great interview. I mean, I really enjoy all of our going deepers, but when you have a guest like Robert, full circle moment, you know, if you, if you followed his dad at all and just. Or if you experience the loss of a loved one or you just want to feel good about the world, it's an episode you're going to definitely want to tune into. So be sure that you do. We'll see you tomorrow.

[Justin]

Bye.

[Nick Joy]

Bye.

[Carlos King]

Morning, Zoe.

[Nick Joy]

Got donuts.

[Giselle]

Jeff Bridges.

[Mary]

Why are you still living above our garage?

[Nick Joy]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you. You teach me.

[Justin]

So. Dana.

[Mary]

Oh no, I'm not really prepared.

[Giselle]

I couldn't possibly.

[Mary]

@ T Mob.

[Sierra]

We'll get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them.

[Mary]

It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Nick Joy]

Wow, impressive. Let me try.

[Carlos King]

T mobile is the best place to.

[Nick Joy]

Get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Natalie]

Nice.

[Sierra]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Nick Joy]

T mobile is the best place to.

[Carlos King]

Get the new iPhone.

[Nick Joy]

IPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?

[Mary]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Nick Joy]

The 24 month bill credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge credit sending balance due to payoff earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 A new line minimum 100 plus a month plan without a pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oakland Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025 Visit T mobile.com Mint.

[Carlos King]

Is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month.

[Mary]

Two.

[Carlos King]

Seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it.

[Giselle]

Are you.

[Carlos King]

Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront.

[Sierra]

Payment of $45 for 3 month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer for 3 months only. Then full price plan options available.

[Annie]

Taxes and fees extra.

[Sierra]

See mintmobile.com.