Nick (1:41)

L and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

Host 1 (1:44)

That is article.comvll for $50 off your first purchase of$100 or more. Fall is here and with it comes the back to school rush, early morning drop offs, after school activities, football games.

Nick (1:58)

And those last minute supply runs.

Host 1 (2:00)

And let's not forget the extra trips.

Nick (2:02)

For groceries, coffee and gets busier and that all adds up fast.

Host 1 (2:08)

Well with the free Upside app there is an easy way to earn real cash back every time you Fill up your tank, grab a bite to eat, or stock up on essentials. Whether you're driving across town from a soccer game or picking up snacks for the school lunch box, Upside helps you keep more in your pocket. In fact, Upside has given back $1 billion with the B to its users. Listen, I. I never say no to free money. And it's kind of fun anytime you.

Nick (2:34)

Get to get some money back. And it's you. When it comes to things that you're just doing every day, running errands, you.

Host 1 (2:40)

Know, getting those essentials, Upside has just been a fun way to get a little more money in my pocket.

Nick (2:44)

You can never have too much, and so that's how I look at it.

Host 1 (2:47)

The free Upside app gets you cash back on daily essentials like gas. Check. Groceries. Check. And dining. All things we do and all things.

Nick (2:55)

We get money back from.

Host 1 (2:56)

Seems too good to be true. There are over a hundred thousand gas stations, grocery stores, and restaurants on the Upside app, ensuring that cash back is always just around the corner. And yes, it's real cash back. No confusing reward points or credits, just actual money. Money you can transfer straight to your bank account. That's what I'm talking about.

Nick (3:12)

Like, you just get gas, you go.

Host 1 (3:13)

To groceries, you go to restaurants, and.

Nick (3:14)

Like, oh, I get. It's like, send me money. Okay, I'll take that.

Host 1 (3:18)

I was going to eat there anyways. 1 million in cash back is being earned by users each week, and so get some of that money. Today, Upside is giving back $1 billion to its users. To find out how much you could earn, download the free Upside app and use promo code v I a l l to get an extra 25 cents.

Nick (3:34)

Back for every gallon on your first tank of gas.

Host 1 (3:38)

That's an extra 25 cents back on every gallon on your first tank of gas. Again, by using promo code V I A L L.

Nick (3:58)

How's it going?

Caller 1 - Rose (3:59)

Pretty good. How are you?

Host 1 (4:00)

Good.

Nick (4:00)

What's your name?

Caller 1 - Rose (4:01)

My Name's Rose. I'm 32, and I'm calling because I'm trying to help my single friend with dating.

Nick (4:08)

Okay. Why? I mean, other than just trying to be a good friend, why are you so invested in this particular friend and.

Host 1 (4:17)

Have they asked for your help or.

Nick (4:18)

Are you just, like, worried about them?

Caller 1 - Rose (4:20)

Well, there's a lot of backstory for my relationship with her. We've been friends for 25 years, so obviously I am invested in her and her life. Just in general. She has been struggling a lot. She's been in the trenches, and I recently got married Going on three years now, and we are in very different stages of life. And it's just hard for me to figure out the right things to say to support her with her dating life.

Nick (4:56)

So do you feel like this is coming from a place of you're feeling more and more disconnected from your friend and you're hoping that maybe you can get her a partner because it's affecting the friendship?

Caller 1 - Rose (5:09)

No, I wouldn't say that. I'm trying to find her a person. I'm more just trying to be supportive of her in her dating choices and in the experiences that she's having in dating. It's been pretty rough for her, and so I don't really know how to talk to her about things without being kind of like a cliche, like, oh, you'll meet the right person when it's the right time, or, oh, just wait. You're such a great catch. Like, I just feel like that doesn't really do a whole lot. So I just don't really know how to talk to her about her dating.

Nick (5:47)

Between you and me, I'm sure she's a great friend. Do you think she's a great catch in the sense that, like, why do you think. Let's recognize that it's difficult to find your person, especially now more than ever in today's dating climate and culture. What do you think about her stopping her from finding what she's looking for?

Caller 1 - Rose (6:12)

That's a great question. Her romantic choices are not always the best, just in general. And I don't really know why she picks the men that she does and has picked in the past. And she still is not. Like, when she goes on dates, she's not really picking men that I think are of the correct caliber for her. But then she also has, like, a lot of high standards, but then also says, I'm, you know, 34. I'll take what I can get. It's a bit confusing to follow her choices. She is very particular. She is allergic to a lot of things. She's very type A, like, literally, which I know.

Nick (6:55)

Allergic to a lot of things.

Caller 1 - Rose (6:57)

Yeah, like, like. Like deathly allergic to so many things, it's not even funny. Dogs and cats being one of the biggest things, which I know in today's day and age with dating, a lot of people do have dogs and cats. The last two guys that she dated, the last one cheated on her with two girls, and he had had a drug problem, which she thought that he had kicked and et cetera, et cetera. And then the guy before that was Using her for, like, a lot of her, like, stability and her financial resources that she, she brought to the table. And he was, just to put it bluntly, an asshole. And I had to call him out on his behavior towards her several times because she wouldn't do it herself.

Nick (7:42)

Why wouldn't she do it?

Caller 1 - Rose (7:43)

She hates confrontation.

Nick (7:45)

Is she allergic to confrontation too, in a sense? I mean, probably.

Caller 1 - Rose (7:51)

I mean, we don't even have, like, she and I, we don't have a very confront relationship, but there are things that I've definitely wanted to talk to her about in the past and I was afraid to because she hates confrontation so much.

Nick (8:02)

I mean, I don't know how I can help you if you're not even capable of, like, having a cup of coffee with her and, and, and coming from a place of love and friendship and, And I guess that's my question. Is she, do you think she thinks she has a problem with dating or do you think she just sees it as bad luck and all men suck?

Caller 1 - Rose (8:24)

It's, it's so weird because it's, it's definitely a combination of the two. Like, I actually told her that I wrote in to a podcast about not knowing how to support her, okay, while. While she's dating. And like, she didn't even have anything to say back of like, well, this would be helpful. And so I, like, I.

Nick (8:45)

Did she have, like, I mean, what, she had no response? She wasn't like, she. Was she curious? Was she offended? Was she almost like, do you think she'll ask you about it?

Caller 1 - Rose (8:54)

She wasn't offended, which actually came kind of as a surprise to me, but she definitely was like, oh, I'd be curious what they said. And I'm like, well, I haven't had the conversation yet, so I will let you know because I don't think she even knows how to really help herself. And so it's, well, like anything else.

Nick (9:14)

Step one, you know, it's like admitting you have, you need help. I don't think there's any benefit from the narrative of all men suck or all, you know, if you're a man struggling with dating, saying to yourself, all women suck or whatever, like, that doesn't help you. Focusing on how many people there are out there that are not your match or not your person is never going to help you get your person, you know, so it's right. You gotta figure out first of all, like, what patterns you are repeating that aren't working out. The fact, you know, step one is like, if she's so adverse to conflict to the point where she can't even stand up for herself. And how can you enforce a boundary that you have? Right. So if you're, whatever your boundary is, you know, like, I don't want to date someone who does X, Y or Z, then this person does X, Y or Z. And you are so adverse to confrontation that you just convince yourself, though that's not what I'm talking about. Oh, I don't, you know, or you find an excuse for them as to why, you know, it's not the same as the boundary that you've communicated to yourself internally and things like that. So that's definitely step one and she needs to kind of acknowledge that, you know.

Caller 1 - Rose (10:35)

Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm sure you have, I mean, you are in a very happy marriage relationship. You have found your person. When you have like your single friends, like, do they like talking to you and they maybe complain or talk about their dating life. What are things that you might say to them to like, kind of like if you're like, you have these great qualities, like you have all these things to. Because I feel like she does have all these things to offer and I just don't know how to kind of boost her confidence up.

Nick (11:11)

Well, nowadays my, the whatever friends I have that are single, which are not many these days, like, they don't ask me and you know, they, they know who I am in the sense and they know like, if they ask they'll get feedback. Right. So like, I am direct to the point where if I don't offer advice that I'm not asked about and if I do get asked, you know, like, you know, Natalie has a girlfriend. She's not single. She's been in a long term relationship with someone who all of her other friends just like, we don't get it. Right. And not that he's a bad guy, it's just she doesn't seem happy and she seems to accept a lot of very specific things that he wants out of a relationship and what he, you know, very limited in how he gives, whatever. But like, I've never really spoken to her about it. She's never asked me directly. But I just ask questions, you know, like for the people who do ask, I think asking questions is the best way to get people to hear what you're thinking, you know, right. When you're talking to someone and you have feedback for them, constructive feedback, it is not well received or it usually doesn't land when you're talking at them, you know, hey, I don't think you're good at setting boundaries. Hey, I think you're a pushover. Hey, you date shitty men. You got to ask them questions and lead them down a path, right? Like ask them how they're feeling about a situation. Maybe compare another situation that you find to be similar to theirs and get them to see that situation and then compare and contrast with their situation. What do you think about someone who would date someone who does X, Y or Z? How is that different than your relationship? You know, things like that, they have to come up with the answers for themselves and then kind of like look in the mirror, so to speak. Right? So it's really just kind of asking them questions about how they feel about things and then continue to ask more questions that kind of direct them down that path.

Caller 1 - Rose (13:12)

Yeah, that's a really good piece of advice. I'm very much a, like, speak what's on my mind. I will just try to like hype my friends up a lot. And I feel like I don't always take the time to actually ask like those sort of follow up questions to dig a little bit deeper about like kind of leading them to the answer. So actually I feel like that would be very helpful for her because I do notice that when I do ask those questions of like, oh, well, like, what did you like about him? Or like, what are like the red flags for you? And then she'll start talking about it and then I kind of see her have those light bulb moments a little bit more.

Nick (13:59)

How often is he reaching out? You know, when's the next date? Are you excited about this? What'd you guys talk about on the date? What questions did he ask you? You know? You know, let's say your friend dates someone, right? So like, oh, I met a guy at a nice first date. She, so she shows an interest in this person and then let's say like date three or four, you observe or hear something that you find to be a red flag, right? Let's say they hang out, they go on three dates, then he goes on vacation and he doesn't reach out, doesn't follow up. You might learn about this. You don't want to say, oh, that's weird. You would want to ask her questions like, well, what would you like him to do? What were you hoping he would do? And then validate their feelings on it, right? Like, you know, oftentimes in dating when we like someone or we're exciting, I feel like a lot of women internalize this thought of like, well, I don't want to be crazy. I don't want to be the crazy one. I don't want to be pushy. So anytime they have this nervous feeling about, like, things that aren't going their way about maybe someone they like, they'll have that nervous feeling, right? Like, so ask them questions about how they're feeling, and then if you agree with them, assuming they're not being crazy, which I think in most cases they're not, validate those feelings, you know? Yeah, you're right to feel that way and then guide them to help them process those feelings or what they should do with those feelings.

Host 1 (15:22)

Yeah, you should. You should reach out.

Nick (15:24)

I don't think gassing up your friends and filling them with delusion is helpful. And I don't think telling them what they're doing wrong and belittling them is also helpful. You know, it's like they don't need a coach. You know, I mean, it's great to have support and a cheerleader, but, like, you don't want to make excuses for someone else either, because you don't want to disappoint them, right? You just want to honestly just ask them questions about how they're feeling, listen to how they're feeling, and assuming it's a normal response to a situation, validate those feelings, and then give them some tips of what to do next. And I think that's the best way to go, because then it's like, you're not judging them, you're not filling them with delusion. And then when they are disappointed about the difficult times or how stressful dating can be, you empathize with them. Yeah, it can. It can be a struggle, just like I do. And all the people who call in are just like, listen, like, dating is hard. It is. It will never not be hard. It's not meant to be fun. You know, it can be fun at times with the right mindset, but it's always eventually kind of exhausting. Again, I always kind of equate it to, like, going to the gym. Sure, there's like, a few people out there who are big gym rats and just, like, love going to the gym. But most of us, like, don't mind a workout sometimes, but at the end of the day, it's kind of like, gotta work out, you know? And like, there can be benefits from it, you know what I'm saying? And even then you get fatigue from it. You might need to take a break, you know, Even if you do, like, going to the gym, you're like, your body needs a little bit of a break sometimes. And so you just kind of, like, make sure they have the right mindset.

Caller 1 - Rose (17:03)

Yeah, absolutely. I was gonna say, I do have, like, a real life example for her in regards to, like, a situation where I wasn't quite sure how to, like, I don't know, give advice or just be supportive in that moment. She went on a date with a guy she knew. He was a teacher. We all know teachers are severely underpaid. They don't make a ton of money. She is an engineer, so she lives a different lifestyle than, say, your average teacher might. And she, like, went on this date with him, knowing this information, and then she was like, oh, yeah. Like, he, like, really couldn't do anything. Couldn't afford to pay for anything, didn't want to do. Like, she was like, I tried to give, like, a free option, but, you know, he just was like, oh, well, we can just cook at your house. And she wasn't really comfortable with that. So she ended up just paying for their date because he said that he just couldn't afford it. And in my head, I'm like, well, why did you even go on a date with the guy in the first place? But I can't really say that. I mean, I could, but I don't really. I don't know what the benefit of that would be. So these are the sorts of scenarios that she's putting herself in where I don't really know what to say.

Nick (18:23)

Well, what was, like, what was the date that she went on that she paid for?

Caller 1 - Rose (18:26)

It was like, drinks and tacos. Like, it wasn't anything crazy. It was probably like a 30, maybe $40 total, I'm assuming.

Nick (18:36)

Yeah. And again, yes, teachers are underpaid, and yes, inflation's a real thing right now, and it is expensive out there. So not to minimize people's financial struggles out there, but I think we agree, if he wanted to, he would type of thing. And I don't think, fine, don't eat tacos or don't get alcohol. I don't know. A cup of coffee, even though, is expensive. You know, it's just like a date is about meeting someone and having a conversation, you know, at the end of the day, especially a first date. Yeah. If he was ultimately negotiating with her about where to have this date, having no problem to, like, come over to his house. It was kind of giving, like, Netflix and chill energy. It sounds like a little bit to me. It sounded like, I don't know, or like you enough to waste. You know, it's like, to me, what is more of the truth? Of that story, and we're making a lot of assumptions here. Is that like, yeah, he probably on a teacher's salary, doesn't have a lot of money to waste. Right. If he's actively dating. Listen, as a guy who, you know, from when I was single, like, I, you know, it's like, hey, you know, I feel like I should pay for this date. I'm a guy, you know, whatever. Call, Call me old fashioned. Like, I think some guys out there who are on the dating apps. Actively dating.

Host 1 (19:46)

Yeah.

Nick (19:47)

That can get expensive. It's like.it's like, do I want to go, like, meet a stranger and spend another 80 bucks? You know, like, it's like that can add up and, and there is definite, really that mindset.

Host 1 (20:00)

Right.

Nick (20:01)

As women, if you, you know, still are hoping that you find a man who is chivalrous, who at least like, will want to pay for the first date whether they have the funds or not. I think it's totally normal to empathize with a guy. It's like, maybe this is his fourth date this week. And I'm not going to judge him because, hey, I'm out there and I've been on four dates this week. So, like, it is what it is. But like, we don't have to get drinks and a coffee. Like, there are inexpensive options out there, you know, And I guess like a guy who really wants to like, meet someone, not have them for their dinner. Yeah. Find a compromise on a place that would allow him to pay for the date.

Caller 1 - Rose (20:41)

No, I mean, but if she is.

Nick (20:43)

Like, I don't know.

Host 1 (20:43)

But I don't know her.

Nick (20:44)

Maybe she's a particular person who's like, I want to go on this place for this date.

Caller 1 - Rose (20:48)

Yeah, she is very particular.

Nick (20:50)

And if that's the case, then you're kind of getting into like a, well, hey, you want to go? And I can't afford it. You know, it's like, you know, it's not compromise.

Caller 1 - Rose (20:59)

Yeah.

Nick (21:01)

But again, if you're, it's like one of those things that I'm a particular person. I always known I'm a particular person. And as a particular person, you just have to have a little bit more patience and knowing that, like, I don't know, like, yeah, I wasn't trying to please everyone. I wasn't trying to go on a date with a bunch of people, but I had to recognize that as a particular person, you know, like, finding out people aren't your person faster just saves you time and money. And going on dates for the sake of Being entertained or having something to do is a, is a giant waste of time and money. You know, it is a balance because.

Host 1 (21:37)

You do have to get out there.

Nick (21:38)

You do have to meet people. You have to be willing to be surprised, you know, when you meet people. So it's really just checking in with yourself more than anything. Why are you doing this? Am I, Am I doing this because there's a real interest here. Am I doing this? Am I saying yes this day because I'm bored? Her biggest problem, from what I'm hearing from you, is if she's dating someone you describe to be a particularly really bad boyfriend, and the fact that she couldn't ever stand up for herself and she needed you to do that is a, is a really bad sign for her.

Caller 1 - Rose (22:10)

I would agree. Which I think is why I am even more protective of like her dating life. Like I do, I want to see her happy. I know I can't fix that. It's not my job, my responsibility to find that person for her or anything. That's never, that's not the intention of like my questions or anything like that. It's. It's just that I've seen her go through so much in her dating life and her personal life, everything else. And so it's just like, maybe it's like a. It feels weird because she is a few years older than me. Like prior to me finding my now husband, she was always the one in like these very serious long term relationships with, with guys. And then, you know, those obviously didn't pan out. And then my husband and I, we moved pretty quick. Like we got engaged after seven months. We got married within two years of being together and now we're going on five years of being together and we're in a really great place. And she sees that and I just don't know if maybe I feel a little, feels like a little bit of a weird friendship dynamic balance and shift in that.

Nick (23:16)

Yeah, I mean like being in your. Yeah, like it's for sure. I mean there's a, you know, an adult life, I think late 20s, early 30s. Some people settle down and some people don't. And when people settle down, quite literally, there's a reason why we call it settle down. Because you start, you, you realize that like part of going, you know, when you, when you went out in your 20s, you're like, oh, well, I went out to meet girls or went out to meet men. This is a broad statement. But like if you're an adult in a committed relationship, going out was less fun. Now, I'm not someone, I'm not a big drinker. I don't like, like darts or pool or things like that. And I guess I have a lot of introverted aspects to my personality. And so maybe that, you know, an extrovert who's like, good, you know, loves. Loves pool, might just enjoy going out, you know, to the bars. I suppose. I'm not saying everyone who has a partner who goes out to the bars is up to no good, but there is an element of, you know, what's the point? It's not as fun. I'd rather stay home with my person, my partner. It does change friendships, you know, because, you know, if she had a boyfriend that you liked, you'd probably double date and you'd come over for game night and you would do dinners and you would just kind of hang out and talk and hope that your husband and her boyfriend like, like each other enough where they, like, have some common interests. And. And when that doesn't happen, that definitely changes how much we see and spend time with our friends. You might, you know, talk on the, the phone and catch up and things like that, but it makes it a little bit more difficult, but it doesn't make it impossible. And, you know, even though your friendship changes, it doesn't have to. It just changes. Right? It doesn't have to, like, go away. But yeah, I mean, as far as your friend, I think it's really just asking more questions rather than making statements. But she has, you know, you have to get her to want to help herself, and she needs to recognize that she's probably making some choices that are not helping her is she is as frustrated with her dating life as you are as frustrated with her dating life.

Caller 1 - Rose (25:21)

I think, yeah, you know, I think she is.

Nick (25:25)

And just kind of talk it through because right now you're just. You're describing your friend who. Her frustrations come in the form of just kind of complaining. And complaining doesn't get you anywhere. You just have. You have to make some meaningful changes, like, what am I going to do different? Okay, fine, dating sucks. Men, men, all men suck or whatever, but that is not gonna change anything. So she's gonna have to make some changes in how she approaches her dating life and then how she approaches the men that she chooses to invest her time in, you know, and right now, you've described someone who just wants to get on the date, you know, sometimes, and she is not looking at some of the signs or red flags of again, when red flag doesn't necessarily mean bad guy. May just mean not my guy, you know?

Caller 1 - Rose (26:12)

Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. The advice piece. Well, in terms of, like, asking more questions, I think that is, for me, my. My key takeaway. And I'm sure I'm not the only person that has single friends that, you know, they want to try to, quote, unquote, help, but without being too overt.

Nick (26:33)

Yeah, it's tricky because, you know, most people don't want to. Sometimes it only helps with an outside voice. You know, it's like, for example, I'm sure there will be times where you and your husband are talking, right? And maybe you're just not agreeing on a particular topic. Maybe it's not even that serious. And then if you heard it from another person or if he heard it from another person, even though you disagree with them, hearing it from an outside opinion, you know, let's say you guys disagreed. And whatever my opinion was, both of you might be like, oh, well, I mean, I guess, like, you know what.

Caller 1 - Rose (27:03)

I'm saying, Seeing it from a different point of view.

Nick (27:05)

Yeah, it's like. And then your partner's like, well, that's literally what I've been saying. Why don't you ever listen to me? You know, but some. Sometimes we just, you know, we dismiss the people we, you know, because, like, you know, you know, your friend, you know, your husband, Right? So, like, it's like, well, you are just the way you are, and that's why you feel the way you do and yada, yada, yada. And sometimes we just need it, you know, so to hear it from an outside point of view.

Caller 1 - Rose (27:27)

So, no, I really appreciate it. And I. I do have to say, I use your. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy all the time. That phrase has, like, stuck with me for I don't even know how many years.

Nick (27:43)

It's a good one.

Caller 1 - Rose (27:45)

Oh, yeah. Whenever my husband and I, if we ever get. Start getting into, like, a little, like, tiff or something, like, I always. We always just look at each other and go, we want to be right or do we want to be happy? And we always pick being happy. Like, that is like, the first thing we say whenever something might start going off the rails. We're like, okay, let's circle back and. And figure it out. Because that. That has really been such a big piece of advice that has stuck with me. So thank you.

Nick (28:10)

Well, good to hear. Well, I didn't come up with it, but I do use it all the time.

Caller 1 - Rose (28:15)

I'm giving you credit because you're who I heard it from.

Nick (28:17)

Well, I appreciate it. Thank you for the call. And yeah, hopefully this was helpful.

Caller 1 - Rose (28:23)

It was. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. I just, I'm going to take time to slow down and ask more pointed questions to, to help her figure out what exactly she's looking for and instead of trying to just hype her up. So thank you.

Nick (28:38)

Okay. All right, well, thanks for the call.

Caller 1 - Rose (28:40)

Bye.

Nick (28:41)

All right, talk later.

Caller 2 - Emma (28:42)

Bye.

Nick (28:42)

Bye.

Host 1 (28:44)

As the weather cools, we are swapping in the pieces that actually get the job done with warm, durable, and built to last pieces from Quince. You've heard us talk about Quince because we love Quince. We're obsessed with Quint and we love its durability, the way it's made. We also love the variety, whether it's the staples or their quality pieces. Like they're 100% Mongolian cashme sweater that I'm super excited now that the seasons are cooling. Get to bust it out of the closet, you know? You know, every time the season's cool.

Nick (29:06)

I'm always like, oh, the fall winter.

Host 1 (29:08)

Fashion in that 100 Mongolian cashmere sweater from Quince is one of my favorites that I have. And it can be yours as well. They also have their suede trucker jacket. Super stylish, super cool, super comfortable. It's perfect for layering and looks really casual but also put together. So, ladies, if you're looking to upgrade.

Nick (29:25)

The men in your life, check out the suede trucker jacket.

Host 1 (29:28)

They have great stuff for men and women. So whoever you are, you can get some great staples from Quince. Say no to fast fashion.

Nick (29:34)

You know, places that you know that selling you things that just don't last.

Host 1 (29:37)

And just don't feel like unique and well made. Also with Quince, you have the peace of mind that they're partnering directly with ethical factories and top artisans. Quince cuts out the middleman to deliver premium quality at half the cost of similar brands. So upgrade your closet today with quality pieces that are incredibly stylish and you're just all going to look good.

Nick (29:55)

Be the Quince family everyone is obsessed with in your neighborhood.

Host 1 (29:57)

Layer up this fall with pieces that.

Nick (29:59)

Feel as good, good as they Look.

Host 1 (30:01)

Go to quinn's.com v I a l l for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com v I a l l free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com v I a l l falls here. Kids are back in school. Vacations are over and it's officially the start of cozy season. Which means time to slide into some Bombas. You know Bombas, the most comfortable socks, slippers, tees out there made from premium material that actually makes sense for this time of year. Think merino wool that keeps you warm.

Nick (30:33)

When it's chilly, but cool when it's hot.

Host 1 (30:35)

The Supima cotton that's softer, stronger and more breathable than regular cotton and even rag wool. It's the thick, durable, classy, cozy socks.

Nick (30:43)

That you'll want all fall.

Host 1 (30:46)

Yeah, it's, it's cozy season. We love Bombas wherever we are, but especially at the lake where the seasons are changing and it's really time to be cozy up at the lake. So wherever you are, get yourself cozy. Protect those feet, people. And maybe you're still, you know, dressing up for work or a special occasion. Maybe. Maybe you have friends who are into fall and winter weddings. Don't forget that you can dress up with Bombas as well. It's not just for dressing down in those cozy times, but also you can dress up. Their selection of socks is incredible. Whether it's quality, comfort or just a lot of fun, they come in a lot of different styles and colors. Also, the best part about Bombas is they donate. Over 150 million items have been donated thanks to customers because when you buy a Bombus sock that they also donate one to someone experiencing homelessness. Over 150 million items have been donated thanks to customers because of this policy. It's their happiness guarantee. Also, they're available through international shopping to over 200 countries. Head over to bombas.com v I a l l and use code v I a l l for 20% off your first purchase. That is b o m b a s.com v I a l l code v I a l l at checkout.

Sponsor Voice (31:52)

Just because your neck and arms might be covered this fall, doesn't mean you should pretend they don't exist. Covered up doesn't mean forgotten. Your skin still needs love. That's exactly why Gopure created the neck and arm cream bundle at Powerhouse Duo. Designed to visibly firm, smooth and restore the look of saggy crepey skin where it matters most. You know the drawer full of barely used products. These creams won't be one of them. These high performance formulas are made to hydrate, tighten and improve elasticity over time without harsh ingredients or a luxury price tag. All Gopure products are cruelty free, paraben free and sulfate free. So you know you're Giving your skin clean, effective care without the harsh chemicals or compromises. Fall might mean more layers, but there's no excuse to ignore your neck and arms. Treat them now so the next time they're revealed, they're ready. Thousands have made this their go to for visible results in just four weeks. So why not you go ahead and give your skin the reset it's been waiting for and see why this bundle keeps selling out. For a limited time, our listeners get 25% off all other products by using code V I a l l@gopure.com you can try all GoPure products risk free for 60 days. Love your results or get your money back, no questions asked. Right now, Gopure has a crazy deal. For a limited time, you can get 57% off the tighten and lift neck cream and Sculp and tone arm cream bundle. You can also get 25% off all other products by using code vial@gopure.com so head to gopure.com and use code V I A L L for a huge discount. And after you buy, do us a favor. When they ask you where you heard about Gopure at, tell them it was from our show.

Nick (33:16)

How's it going?

Caller 2 - Emma (33:17)

Good. How are you?

Host 1 (33:18)

Good.

Nick (33:18)

What's your name?

Caller 2 - Emma (33:19)

My Name's Emma. I'm 26.

Nick (33:22)

How can I help, Emma?

Caller 2 - Emma (33:23)

Well, my problem right now is that I got fired a while ago and I really don't want to get another job.

Host 1 (33:31)

Okay.

Caller 2 - Emma (33:31)

Really don't know how I can motivate myself to get another job, to be honest with you.

Nick (33:35)

Do you need. I mean, maybe you don't need to get another job. Like, are you rich?

Caller 2 - Emma (33:43)

Not rich enough to like not work for this long. You know what I mean? Like, I'll be good till December, but I got like a college degree and stuff, so I kind of want to use that. You know what I mean?

Nick (33:55)

Talk to me. Is this like a lack of motivation? Like, what are you. Why'd you get fired?

Caller 2 - Emma (34:02)

Well, I think I got fired because I really didn't like my job and I kind of couldn't force myself to care about it.

Caller 1 - Rose (34:12)

Really.

Nick (34:13)

What was your job?

Caller 2 - Emma (34:14)

I worked at like an architecture engineering firm.

Host 1 (34:18)

Okay.

Nick (34:18)

Are you an architect?

Caller 2 - Emma (34:19)

Yes.

Nick (34:20)

Okay.

Caller 2 - Emma (34:22)

Yeah.

Nick (34:22)

Do you like being an architect or was it just the company or the job that you had?

Caller 2 - Emma (34:28)

I don't know. I've getting the feeling I don't really like being an architect that much. I did a lot of school to become an architect, so I did a.

Nick (34:38)

Lot of school to become an accountant.

Caller 2 - Emma (34:39)

Oh, really?

Nick (34:40)

Yeah. So, yeah, hated that.

Caller 2 - Emma (34:43)

Yeah.

Nick (34:44)

Something I've always said since I started this show is our twenties are. Are usually based off of expectations and dream expectations we set for ourselves and dreams that we had as teenagers. And for some people, that works out. And some people are lucky enough to have a dream or about what they want to do when they grow up, when they're teenagers and they go to school for it and they turns out they absolutely love it. And this is amazing. And it all works out. My brother wanted to be a dentist when he was six years old. He's a dentist now. Far as I know, he likes being a dentist. Good for him. Most of us, you know, we pick a degree and we watch a movie and that sounds cool. And then we actually get into it and then we start doing it and maybe even in school we liked it. And then we get into the job and we're like, this fucking sucks. Or maybe sometimes it's just the job that we hate or the people we work with, and sometimes we have to try it out. So I guess for you, when you think about what you didn't like about architecture or the job, what was it specifically that you didn't like? And then follow up question to that is, what are some things that you think about about now that you, you know. How old are you again? 20.

Caller 2 - Emma (35:56)

26.

Nick (35:57)

26, right. So what are some things that do interest you and like what, how, what, what are you motivated by?

Caller 2 - Emma (36:06)

Yeah, I mean, I think like some of the most impactful projects that we did involved like helping vulnerable populations or at least like involved, you know, creating. Doing projects that would actually make a difference in the community versus, like, you know, we would do a lot of like, warehouse buildings that are like four walls and you know, just to like, kind of store things in and are like soulless office buildings. And, you know, it's not. It doesn't feel like meaningful work. Right. So I think like, if I had the opportunity to like, I don't know, build a hospital or, you know, design more like community centers, something that's like, actually feels like it's enriching people's lives, I think that would be a lot more inspiring to me or even like something more creative and like, artistic based.

Nick (36:53)

Okay, well, what does that look like?

Caller 2 - Emma (36:55)

I don't know. Like, I just kind of play with the idea of like, I've been to music festivals like Panorama in New York, and they have these really cool installations on site that like, people can go inside of and like, interact with or even like the Towers that they have in Coachella, like, you know, the spiral. I don't know. Something that's like, more of the artistic side. I think doing something like that would be cool or, like, I don't know.

Nick (37:19)

Anything about that world. But have you looked into what that looks like? Have you looked into who are the companies that make these things that you find really cool and inspiring?

Caller 2 - Emma (37:28)

Honestly, No, I haven't. I think I kind of, like, counted myself out from it. So that's a really good first step to probably, like, look into these.

Nick (37:37)

But also, like, you know, do you even want to do that? Like, I mean, not. Not. I'm not. I don't know you at all.

Host 1 (37:44)

Right.

Nick (37:45)

And I'm not, you know, I'm glad that you, you know, want to do meaningful things for people. But, like, do you. I don't know. Like, I guess my point, it's just like, I didn't like being accountant.

Caller 2 - Emma (37:58)

Yeah.

Nick (37:58)

And I definitely remember. It's funny, like, now that there's a show called the Paper coming out, that's like a reboot of the Office. I remember when the Office, the show came out, right? And I was in my. I was working my. Yeah, I was very early in my career. It was my second job. Hated. My first job quit that. I was an auditor. It wasn't even accounting. And I was like, well, then I was like, well, I want to do actual accounting, you know? And then I was doing actual accounting. Like, this is fucking boring. This is like spreadsheets. I sit in the office and I remember the office coming out, and I really related to, like, Jim's character, which was basically, like, what's the point of all this? Like, is this my life? Is this, like, I just like it, you know, this is, you know, And I remember, like, when I asked myself, what's the point of all this? Where it was this, like, what value do I add? You know, type of thing. I don't think if I was doing spreadsheets for or some kind of nonprofit that, you know, at the end of the day, like, help people, I don't think I would have, like, got any more meaning out of it. At the end of the day, I just hated the work. And I personally didn't feel any sense of accomplishment. That's why I personally got into sales because, like, you know, I'm not trying to convince you to do sales, but, like, my mentality, I was, you know, I liked athletics. Right. I really responded to competition, and sales offered me on a day in and day out basis to feel like I Had a sense of accomplishment or failure, right? Like, if I could make a hundred calls and not get anywhere. Not that it was like I felt like a failure, but I knew how I had to measure myself. And that's a type of work that I responded to because I could even compete with myself. I could compete with my peers, you know, and that was very motivating for me. Me, I had to figure out what. How I was motivated. Like, what, what motivates you? Like, are you motivated by money? Which I was. Because I know a lot of people don't like to say that, you know, that's real, though. I wanted to make money, you know, Like, I almost. I remember early in my career I thought about being a teacher because I was like, I remember, you know, mostly because I wanted to coach and I want. I liked, you know, this Ask Nick stuff that I do. Right. I enjoy helping people. People, right. I get. I get a lot of value out of doing this. I find it to be enjoyable.

Host 1 (40:14)

Right.

Nick (40:14)

But I remember when I was sitting down in my early 20s, really seriously thinking about being a teacher, I remember being like, well, I'm also very money motivated and I don't want to, you know, teachers don't make a lot of money. And so I had to figure that out, right. In terms of what motivates me, what can I get excited about? You need to take away the pressure of. I went to school for this. I spent a lot of money on this. Who gives a fuck, right? Most of us, a college degree is. I don't know, it is what it is, but it really doesn't make a difference one way or the other. And it doesn't help you out. It's like, what is that? Sunk cost fallacy?

Caller 2 - Emma (40:55)

True.

Nick (40:56)

If you hate what you're doing, there's no point in doing it just because you've already invested so much time and money in it. So I guess step one is take away the fact that you went to school to be an architect tech, and open up your mind to the possibility that you can do anything. It all worked out for me. But I remember being again around your age as an accountant, hating my fucking job, but thinking I was too old to go back to school. And I'm not trying to tell you to go back to school and spend more money. Because nowadays I don't know how useful colleges are. But reinvesting in yourself, whatever that is, learning a new trade or skill set doesn't necessarily require you to go back to school school. But like, it might require you to lear somehow. It might require you to pay your dues. Right. I only bring that up because, like, time does go fast. At 26, you might be thinking, it's too late for that. But I promise you, when you turn 29, you'll look back and wish you did more to invest in yourself.

Caller 2 - Emma (41:59)

Yeah.

Nick (42:00)

Whatever that is. Unless you are. Unless you're 29 and you wake up and you're like, I absolutely love what I do. And so it's never too late to reinvest in yourself. And it's never too late to, I guess, in the moment, feel like you're taking a step back in order to take two steps forward. Right. And by taking a step back, I mean, like, you know, a lot of people at your age will be like, well, I already went to school and I already spent this money and now it's time to make money. And, like, I don't have time to, like, pay my dues anymore. I've already paid my dues. But, you know, maybe you just made the wrong choice in what you wanted to do. So first. First you kind of have to press the reset but button. When you're thinking about what you want to do next, you really have to start from scratch and open up your mind to the possibility that anything is possible. And I can do anything.

Caller 2 - Emma (42:48)

For the most part, I actually really like that idea. You know, I relate to what you're saying about just finding working in an office soul sucking. Like, I absolutely find sitting at my desk all day to just be draining. And then there may be, like, moments of it being uplifting, but I think there needs to be, like, a complete reevaluation. And, like, honestly, this has been really encouraging for me to, like, look at other professions. Honestly, sales, I've thought about sales, but.

Nick (43:17)

Sales, I listen, I am a huge advocate for sales. It's not for everyone. You know, I remember when I got into sales and I had some success and I made some good money, and I had jobs where I was able to work from home with sales. There are times when you have to work really hard, and there are times where it can be like, you know, you know, it's a Wednesday afternoon and you're out there kind of having an early happy hour. And I had a lot of friends who saw, like, the money I made and what they perceived to be, like, a really great work life balance. And they're like, well, I should do sales. And I was like, yeah, you should. But, like, I also, like, I had a lot of days where I'd make 200 phone calls and get hung up on 50 times and be told no. And that's not for everybody, right? Because that can be very defeating. Whatever you decide to do, there is going to be an. You know, the people who make it. You know, there's every amazing job that looks like a dream job, requires people to pay their dues. And if it's a dream job that you're looking at and you're seeing people with, like, the money that you want or the flexibility that you have, it didn't. It didn't start that way. And the reason why those great job. Those people have those great jobs is because the filter is all the work at the beginning, most people aren't willing to do.

Host 1 (44:36)

Do.

Caller 2 - Emma (44:36)

Yeah. Which is like, kind of what I'm thinking. I'm like, well, you know, like my boss was saying, like my old boss, anyway, is that I'm not getting put on more interesting projects because I'm not, like, progressing enough with the boring projects. And, like, I'm not going the extra mile on them. And that was, like, a really important aspect.

Nick (44:55)

But, yeah, but if you don't like it, right? Like, that is something to consider, right? Because, like, yeah, yeah. Anyone who's listening, who's an architect, right, you know, and they're listening to this call, they're probably thinking, yeah, girl. Like, yeah, I wanted. I didn't like working on those boring projects, too. But, like, I had to do it like everyone. Everyone else did, and I had to, like, put my best effort in those boring projects and show that I could do the work and I could be trusted so that I had to earn. You know, everyone wants the best projects, right? Like, you know, that is something you'll have to ask yourself, you know, what's the thing? And that's where you have to enjoy the work, Right? For me, I didn't, like, making a hundred calls a day and getting nowhere. But, like, I was able to. I, like, my competitive side was able to, like, get through it and find the small wins in those moments. You know, in sales, there's usually like, a direct line between effort and compensation. So, you know, it was easier for me to be like, all right, I'll just keep fucking grinding. Because, like, I see. I could see the goal. I could see the pot at the end of the rainbow, so to speak, Right. Sometimes with some jobs, it's harder to see. It's like, well, what's the point of working harder? I'm never actually rewarded for it.

Caller 2 - Emma (46:12)

Yeah. And I feel like that's kind of the other thing with architecture. Is there's kind of like a ceiling. Unless you become like a Frank Gehry or whatever, like a famous architect, you're kind of capped at like 150 or like 200,000 a year.

Nick (46:27)

Not bad.

Caller 2 - Emma (46:27)

And it's a lot of work, which is still pretty good. Yeah, it's still really good. But then it's just like, I don't know, I guess. And then it's like the prestige of the title, you know, that you're like a licensed architect and it's just a lot of work, especially right now.

Nick (46:42)

You could sell, couldn't you sell architectural equipment?

Caller 2 - Emma (46:46)

That's the other thing I've considered is I'm sure there's some sort of field. Like, I know some people have sold floor plans.

Nick (46:53)

Yeah, Every boring industry buys things, you know.

Caller 2 - Emma (46:59)

True.

Nick (47:00)

And there's a lot of people who went to school to be doctors and lawyers and accountants and architects who didn't like it, who did get into sales. And they got sales jobs selling to those types of people because they could speak their language. So that's. That's an idea.

Caller 2 - Emma (47:17)

Yeah.

Nick (47:17)

But also, if you get into sales, like, you don't have to.

Host 1 (47:19)

You can.

Caller 2 - Emma (47:19)

That's true.

Nick (47:20)

Being good at sales, it doesn't matter what you sell. You're not really selling. You're solving problems. So I don't know if you're, you know, architecture. There's a problem solving element to sales too. I always, always joke, I don't sell. I don't sell software. I sell a dream. Sell a vision. Right? You know, like, absolutely.

Host 1 (47:36)

Your thing is you have to figure.

Nick (47:37)

Out what motivates you. Because every.

Host 1 (47:40)

A job is a job, you know.

Nick (47:41)

Like, it's all jobs feel like jobs even now. I mean, I truly have a dream job. I run my own company. It's really great. But work is work and I still have to work. I mean, even the influencers, it's hilarious for the people who go on reality TV and things like that, and some of the opportunities that were afforded are truly surreal. Right. It's like, we'll pay you X number of dollars to post this on social media. And relative to real work, it's truly, like, ridiculous. But, like, you can't find an influencer who won't complain about having to like, make whatever content they have to make in order to make this ridiculous amount of money. And you. Every single influencer acts like it's real work. Like, oh, my God, I have to do this, so I gotta film it. It's just like they're paying You. Whatever it is, you know, which is, you know, whatever it is, it's. It's not normal money. So work to some degree will. No matter what you do, it'll always feel like work.

Caller 1 - Rose (48:47)

Yeah.

Nick (48:48)

Do you think you're a hard worker?

Caller 2 - Emma (48:50)

Yeah, I think so. I think if I'm passionate about something, then I can get it done.

Nick (48:57)

Okay. Well, I mean, I imagine like getting a degree in architecture can't be easy.

Caller 2 - Emma (49:02)

No, that's like very time consuming and a lot of hard work. Yeah, I think like 30% of our class dropped out like the first two years. So it's like, it's pretty intense. I guess I just had like a clear goal and I was like, yeah, I really want to do this. So I think I have it in me.

Nick (49:18)

Okay.

Caller 2 - Emma (49:19)

Just a little bit disillusioned with my last job, I want to say.

Nick (49:23)

Was that your first job?

Caller 2 - Emma (49:24)

It was pretty much my first job, like in architecture exclusively. I think I worked for like a masonry company beforehand and I had other few odd jobs before, but this was like the first architecture job.

Nick (49:36)

And so what have you been doing in the meantime since you got fired?

Caller 2 - Emma (49:39)

I've really been focusing on my wellness, which has been amazing, but focusing on getting eight hours of sleep a night, like clean sleep routine. I've been working out every day, been like on a pretty strict diet, meditating, you know, I've been looking for other jobs here and there and it's just been trying to do things that, that I didn't have the time to do when I had a job, like drawing, checking out new coffee shops. I've been writing a little bit too.

Nick (50:06)

Okay, well, the question I would always ask myself. I'm a big believer in betting on yourself. Like most people don't bet on themselves. I actually saw there's this viral thing going on. I think he's a comic book artist. I think he's dying of pancreatic cancer right now or prostate cancer, I don't know.

Host 1 (50:25)

But he.

Nick (50:26)

Yeah, forget his name.

Caller 2 - Emma (50:28)

It's not good.

Nick (50:29)

No, it's not. But he was talking. It was like a short one minute video that talked about how to like how laziness is a mindset because most people when they're thinking about things, they think about the work that it will take rather than what you'll get out of it. So whatever the task is, you know, it's just like for you, it's just like, well, you didn't want to work on the boring buildings, so you focused more on. On the work of working on the boring Buildings rather than the goal of, well, if I do this and then do it well, I will be able to maybe work on more interesting buildings. Or instead of I don't want to rake the leaves in the lawn, think about like, well, I'm going to have a really great looking lawn when I'm done. If that's something you care about. Right. So it's more of thinking about what you're going to get out of it rather than the work that goes into it. And if you can change your mindset and focusing on the outcome rather than the work that goes into it, you can get out of kind of a lazy mindset. I'm not suggesting you're lazy.

Host 1 (51:29)

We're all lazy.

Nick (51:30)

We all have. There's all things in our lives that we don't want to do that. We're just like it. I hate doing that. But to get out of that mindset. It was a really interesting thought process. But again, back to betting on yourself and any difficult decision I've had to make, it was always like, if I bet on myself and I do what it takes to get the job done, what will that look like? Because I knew that I was willing, in most cases I was willing to do what most people weren't willing to do. I was willing to put in the work and put in the time grind. And I would ask myself if, when forced with a difficult decision, knowing that it's a challenge or whatever, whatever is going on reality TV or when I switched jobs from medical sales to software sales and things like that, I got a job offer at Oracle and I got a job offer at Salesforce and the job offer at Oracle had a bigger starting salary but the job at Salesforce had more upside opportunity in terms of lower starting salary. And so it was like, well, well yeah, but if, if I'm one of the better ones, then I'll make more money at the Salesforce job, you know. But then I had to like, am I going to be willing to be, what is it going to take to be one of the better ones? And for me, you know, I was willing to bet on myself. You have to ask yourself, are you someone who's good at betting on themselves and are you willing to follow through knowing what it will take? Whatever it will take. And it's easier to do. It's easier to bet on yourself when you're doing something you have a passion for.

Caller 2 - Emma (53:00)

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I agree. I think I gotta like believe in myself a little bit more with architecture because. Cause I Do feel like I'm not that great of a designer sometimes. I don't know. I. I'm kind of like. I don't know if I really want to bet this on myself for architecture. I mean, some architects really aren't great designers anyway, so.

Nick (53:21)

Well, that's the thing too. You gotta ask yourself why. You know, it's just like, maybe you don't like the work, right? Maybe a lot of people. It's just like, I. You know, it's like you're right. You pointed it out right when you're. When. Maybe not now. Now it's like YouTube star. But like back in the day when you were a kid, it was like an. Being an architect was like a dream job. Like when you were a kid and you're on the playground, it was like, I want to be a lawyer or a doctor or architect. It was one of those cool, like, you know, you go to a movie and the main character is an architect because it's like a cool sounding job. So some people will pick architecture because they like the sound of it, but they'll hate the work. If in your mind and the idea of being like the coolest, most famous architect in the world is what you like about being an architect, then maybe you shouldn't be an architect. Because sometimes it's just like you liked the sound of it rather than actually doing it. Which I think is okay to acknowledge at your age because again, you've made the decision to be an architect when you were 17 years old. Then what do we know about what we want to do in adulthood at 17?

Caller 2 - Emma (54:29)

So true. I feel like at some point, you know, you're in college and you're like, okay, I just got to commit to something. I really don't dream of labor. Like, I don't dream of having a job. And like, thankfully I have enough money to just chill right now.

Nick (54:43)

But you do have a good education, right? And it's a degree that does impress people. And maybe you just have to make a slight pivot, like I said, like, you know, when I was an accountant, I knew I wanted to get in sales. So there was a year I, during the day, worked in an office as an accountant, and then I would leave work and I'd work at night selling cell phones.

Caller 2 - Emma (55:02)

Cell phones. Like at Verizon.

Nick (55:04)

I mean, you know, it was a smaller company, but. Oh, there's a company called US Cellular in the Midwest. It was like a regional cell.

Caller 2 - Emma (55:12)

Okay.

Nick (55:12)

Like, you know, a cell phone store you walk into. I went there.

Caller 2 - Emma (55:16)

Damn.

Nick (55:16)

And then I I would work on the weekends too. You know, I was single. I had no responsibilities.

Caller 2 - Emma (55:22)

Yeah.

Nick (55:23)

But my point is, like, I think there's a mindset sometimes we have where it's just like, well, I don't want to do that anymore. You know, I don't know how you feel about being 26, but most people in adulthood feel old, whatever age they are. You get in a certain point in your life, you know, going to college and getting a degree in architecture, you certainly had to pay your dues. Right. And when you graduated, you probably had a mindset of, finally, I am done paying my dues, now I'm going to be a fucking architect. Architect.

Caller 2 - Emma (55:50)

Yep.

Nick (55:50)

And then you got in to work and you're like, this is a job, man. Like, the, the glitz and the glamour of the architecture.

Host 1 (55:57)

Didn't.

Nick (55:57)

You didn't feel the payoff, whatever. Or maybe you didn't really like the work. And I'm just saying that as a 26 year old, you're still plenty young enough to like, do something that, like, there's a part of your brain that might feel like this is beneath you. Like, I definitely didn't imagine for myself in my mid-20s to be working at a cell phone store slinging cell phones, but I wanted to get in the sales, and I had no sales experience. And I got a lot of great experience and honestly made decent money doing it too. And then I parlayed that into other sales jobs.

Caller 2 - Emma (56:33)

Yeah.

Nick (56:34)

You know, but there would be a lot of people who at that point, you know, at 26, who had been like, I don't want to go. I didn't go to school to be like, work at a fucking kiosk in a mall.

Caller 2 - Emma (56:46)

That's valid. But it gave you the experience you needed.

Nick (56:49)

Yeah. And I just kind of got over it. And I accidentally hadn't made something. I mean, I had two. I was making tons of money. You know, I'm just like, you know, at my age at the time, you gotta find what motivates you. You gotta find about what you're passionate about. You often you also have to figure out, because whatever you do, you know, you. You're gonna have to figure out how to get the small wins.

Host 1 (57:08)

I do.

Nick (57:09)

You know, like, listen, you go on TikTok, you know, a lot of people are making fun of your generation because there's a level of like, like thinking about you're supposed to make so much money right away. There's a perception from my generation that your generation doesn't understand the idea of paying Their dues. I don't know how true that is or if it's a case by case basis, but I won't deny it. Yeah. All I can say is when you're 30 or 40, you know, you'll regret not putting in the work. Especially nowadays too, which, what's crazy, not to sound like the fucking old guy talking about your generation, but like, and not even my, you know, like, you know, way back in the day, before my generation, it was common to be in your early 20s and married and have a kid and just like be quote unquote, very settled down. What's your relationship status where you're in your life?

Caller 2 - Emma (57:57)

I'm engaged right now.

Host 1 (57:58)

You're engaged. Okay.

Nick (58:00)

No kids?

Caller 2 - Emma (58:01)

Nope.

Nick (58:01)

All right, so just a dog. So you and your fiance, you're still have a lot of freedom and flexibility. You also have the benefit of like, like you're only engaged, not married, but there's a level of security you have by having a partner, you know. And I'm guessing in these bad times, not bad times, but in these times of uncertainty for you, having your fiance as a support system is helpful. But I guess what I'm trying to say is like nowadays people are settling down much later in life. 20s are like being is like a second decade of being a kid.

Caller 2 - Emma (58:35)

Kid.

Nick (58:35)

No, you know, it's like there's, there's not a ton of expectation on 20 year olds today to have their shit figured out. Society is all is saying it's okay, it's like, it's cool, like don't worry about it. Like 50 years ago the society did not offer 20 year olds that much grace. Right?

Caller 1 - Rose (58:53)

Yeah.

Nick (58:54)

And yet nowadays it seems like a lot of people in their 20s don't want to take advantage of that grace that society is offering them to try new things out, to switch things up. But you still have whatever you switch it up. And do you still have to be willing to pay your dues? Like that's the part you guys can't cheat or figure out. No one is going to be like, yeah, come in and like run my company or you know, whatever, you know, like as someone who hires people and I, I feel like I see an eye for talent, right? But I could see a talented person that I think has, has, has the mindset, the work ethic, the creativity, but they're still green, you know, they still don't have the experience, you know, you just, I don't know, like the more you do things, things slow down in a good way. You know, it's like the law of 10,000 hours. Like, you can't cheat experience and time and. And things like that. So, you know, whatever you decide to do, you will not get to where you want to be without putting in some type of grinding and work and having moments of. I don't want to feel like, you know, but you have to find the thing where you are willing to grind because there's a part of that work you still enjoy. You know, for me, again, the sales, I didn't like making the hundred calls, but I liked the. All it took was one good phone call to like, like, validate that day, you know, and even if that phone call wasn't a sale. But, like, yeah, okay, I'll meet with you. Sure. All right. And I was able to like, turn a no into a yes. Like, I was able to, you know, for me, I can measure success that way. You have to figure out how you can measure success because, like, you. What you couldn't do in your accounting job, architecture job, is like, nothing felt like a success. It was just another mundane task that you had to do.

Caller 1 - Rose (60:47)

Do.

Caller 2 - Emma (60:48)

Yeah, I get that. I mean, there was one point where I had like, one of the boring box buildings was on the COVID of a magazine, so that was cool.

Host 1 (60:56)

Okay.

Caller 2 - Emma (60:56)

That was exciting.

Caller 1 - Rose (60:57)

Yeah.

Caller 2 - Emma (60:58)

I think it. You're right about the getting my ass up and working, like the, you know, thousand hour thing or 10,000 hour thing, whatever. Like, I. It's really about seeing. Seeing it through from that, like, initial boring ass period and just getting through it.

Nick (61:13)

You'll remember this conversation four years from now when you turn 30.

Caller 2 - Emma (61:16)

Yeah.

Nick (61:16)

And either. Either you will have been glad you invested your time and energy in something and pushed through, or you will regret not doing it.

Caller 2 - Emma (61:26)

Yeah, absolutely.

Nick (61:28)

And four years goes by real fast.

Caller 2 - Emma (61:31)

It sure does.

Host 1 (61:32)

Yeah.

Nick (61:33)

Don't be afraid to reinvest. And don't feel. Don't be afraid to, in some ways, feel like you're starting over.

Caller 2 - Emma (61:40)

That's fair.

Nick (61:41)

Whatever you care about. Most people can be good at anything they care about. Because if you care about it, you'll invest in it. If you invest in it, you'll replicate it. If you replicate it, you get good. You might not be the best in the world, but you'll get pretty good. I'm good at cooking because I like it, I care. I do it over and over. You know, I've watched enough of YouTube videos to, like, learn how to do it. You've probably, in this time of, like, not working, have gotten better at things that you've started doing. Over and over. Some of those things you've started to enjoy and, you know, if you care, you're good. The problem is, like, you have to find something you care about.

Caller 2 - Emma (62:18)

Yeah.

Nick (62:18)

It sounds like you didn't care that much about being in an architecture.

Caller 2 - Emma (62:22)

Yeah, I just feel like I was kind of stressing myself out a lot and like, killing myself over it. And like, I don't know. I've been able to invest a lot in like a good wellness routine. Now the anxiety would be pretty brutal and like, it kind of messed up my sleep and I just don't really want it to take over. Like, I don't have to rely on like, caffeine every second of the day to, like, get through stuff. Like, that's just not really a great way to be, I feel like.

Nick (62:50)

No, but there's other ways, you know, I don't know. Sometimes you just need coffee. Listen, I think it's. It's a balance, right? Just. You are also too young to. In my opinion, you're too young to prioritize just having some Zen life. You know, it's okay to have some stress in your life. It's okay to like, have a sleepless night or whatever, but like, yeah, you know, you have a lot of time to. You just don't want to turn 45 or 50 and wish you worked harder. I promise you that it's a lot harder to start over. Every year you get older. It's a lot harder to start over. Now out, like, definitely now. Like, you're in a great period right now. And like, you're in some ways lucky that you're having this kind of like, epiphany that you might want to reassess how you do things. But just don't be afraid to grind.

Caller 2 - Emma (63:36)

Yeah, I hear you. No, this was really helpful. I. I like really appreciate the way you laid this out for me. And like, I don't know, you kind of like changed my mind about the way I'm thinking about the early days of work. Work and everything.

Nick (63:51)

Yeah, it's like nothing you're gonna choose to do. You're not gonna find a job or day one, you're gonna be making the money that you wanna make. And the day to day is exactly what you want it to be. Like any dream job, you're gonna have to pay your dues. You just have to figure out what is the outcome that actually makes you happy. Being on the COVID of a magazine, kind of cool for you, but it doesn't sound like that's what really makes you happy? And it doesn't sound care about being the best architect in the world on a day to day basis. It doesn't sound like you find that much value in it. And the fact that you haven't taken the time to even look to see like who makes the things that Lollapalooza that you or Coachella that you thought were cool tells you like is, you know, that you don't really care.

Caller 2 - Emma (64:42)

Yeah, that's valid. I don't know. I don't know if it's. I don't care. I just like, I don't think that. That I have the skills to do that.

Nick (64:50)

Well, you should try betting on yourself again. Just nowadays I will say not to again sound like the knife to get going. But I'm a big believer and I get it. It's harder and harder to buy a house, not to get into whole the economic crisis and all the reasons why your generation has told it is like, you know, don't even try. People are just like, fuck it. I can assure you that like the way I look at life is either you're gonna ma. You're either gonna reach your potential or you're not gonna reach your potential. And the people who are willing to put in the work to reach their potential will enjoy their life better than the people who weren't. Now we all come from different privileges and different backgrounds and life's not fair. But you have a certain level of potential and either you're gonna reach it or you're not gonna reach it. And doing whatever you can to reach that potential will. Will be what makes you enjoy your life the most. And it really has nothing to do about anyone else. That's kind of how I look at life. I'm never going to be an NBA center, you know, whatever. But my potential is different than someone else's potential. And nowadays there's so many people out there who find a bunch of reasons why they don't want to reach their potential. That anyone out there willing to reach their potential has such a leg up on everyone else else, you know, you actually have less competition than I did because I honestly think more people your age just don't have what it takes to really reach their potential.

Caller 2 - Emma (66:20)

That's a good point actually.

Nick (66:23)

So. All right.

Caller 2 - Emma (66:25)

Yeah, well, thank you for this. This is really helpful, honestly.

Nick (66:29)

All right, well, take care. Let me give us a follow up call in a month or two and let me know where you're at.

Caller 2 - Emma (66:34)

Sounds good. Thanks, Nick.

Nick (66:36)

All right, take care.

Caller 2 - Emma (66:36)

Bye bye bye.

Host 1 (66:39)

Cash app empowers people to send, spend and protect their money with ease. Whether that's splitting dinners with friends or grabbing concert tickets early. With built in security, scam protection and instant access to perks, it's the go to tool for anyone who wants convenience.

Nick (66:56)

Safety control right from their phone.

Host 1 (66:58)

It's becoming more and more of a digital world and you really need to protect yourself and your loved ones and you can do that with Cash App. When you get the Cash App, not only do you get access to tons of perks and benefits like exclusive early access to nationwide concert pre sales discounts on popular brands, but you also have extra security with the power to instantly lock or unlock your card right from your phone in just one tap. If a suspicious transaction pops on your card, Cash App has your back by automatically declining the purchase and sending you.

Nick (67:25)

A heads up to confirm if it's.

Host 1 (67:26)

Not you behind the scenes, you can rest assure knowing your account balance is protected by 24. 7 fraud monitoring. Spend with peace of mind today and order a Cash App card in the app or at Cash App Cash Credit Card Card when you get the Cash App card, unlock your card right from your phone in just one tap. For limited time. New Cash App Customers can earn $10 if they use code Secure10 in their profile at sign up and send $5 to a friend within 14 days. Terms apply. Cash App is a financial service platform, not a bank banking service provided by Cash App Bank Partners. Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank Member FDIC Discounts provided by Cash App a Block Incorporated brand. Visit Cash App Legal Podcast for full disclosures.

Nick (68:10)

How's it going?

Caller 3 - Taylor (68:11)

It's going good. How are you doing?

Nick (68:13)

I'm good. What's your name?

Caller 3 - Taylor (68:14)

My name is Taylor and I'm 29 years old.

Nick (68:17)

How can I help Taylor?

Caller 3 - Taylor (68:18)

So my husband left me when I was seven months pregnant and I just love to hear from a man's perspective and from someone who's also a father. How do I make sense of that?

Nick (68:28)

Well, first of all, I'm so sorry, that's that sucks. There's no other way to describe that. Give me the details. What happened?

Caller 3 - Taylor (68:35)

Yeah, so we were married for five years. We were living in Miami Beach, Florida and my ex husband was an aspiring professional tennis player. So he was pursuing professional tennis but hadn't quite made it to the A leagues. I guess if I'd put it in that sense, he was still playing in the B leagues at that time. We decided we wanted to build a family while we were living in Miami. So we decided to get pregnant and after we decided to get pregnant, we made the decision to move to North Carolina, where my family lives, just because it's really important that our daughter be near family. And also it's very expensive in Miami. It's very expensive city. And we just felt like we could give our daughter a better life in North Carolina. So we moved to North Carolina when I was six months pregnant, and when I was seven months pregnant, the day after Christmas, he sat me down and asked for a divorce and said that he was not happy in North Carolina and that he wanted to move back to Miami. And mind you, we had just got a town home together. And, yeah, he did just that. He left and he moved back to Miami, and I was set to face the rest of my pregnancy alone and bearing the weight of now losing my husband. So it was a lot of trauma paired with excitement for a new baby. So just juggling both of those was definitely an emotional rollercoaster.

Nick (70:13)

Where was he the last two months of your pregnancy?

Caller 3 - Taylor (70:17)

In Miami.

Nick (70:18)

Did he even show up for the delivery?

Caller 3 - Taylor (70:20)

He was there for the delivery, yes. I messaged him and said, hey, I'm going to be giving birth soon. If you'd like to be there, it's probably going to happen in the next few weeks. And he said, I'm going to try and be back there in North Carolina, get an Airbnb and be there for those last two weeks for when she comes. And I said, hey, you know, she might come early. You can't. You can't plan when that happens, so you. You may miss it.

Nick (70:43)

But does he have any interest in being a dad?

Host 1 (70:46)

Yeah.

Nick (70:47)

Yeah.

Caller 3 - Taylor (70:47)

We talked about it our entire marriage. He.

Nick (70:49)

I'm talking about. Not now, I'm not. You know.

Host 1 (70:52)

Oh, now, now that he is a.

Nick (70:54)

Father, does he have an interest in being a dad? Does he act like he has an interest?

Caller 3 - Taylor (71:01)

His words, yes. His actions, no. He's visited once, and she's now six months old.

Nick (71:07)

He's seen her once.

Caller 3 - Taylor (71:08)

Once.

Caller 2 - Emma (71:09)

Yeah.

Nick (71:10)

This is like, there's no way to slice this. Like, this is. This sucks. Right? I just want to acknowledge that. And you have the right to feel like this sucks.

Caller 3 - Taylor (71:21)

Yeah.

Nick (71:21)

That being said, you're just gonna have to get through this, and you will get through this. And I'm sorry. You know, he's a terrible person.

Host 1 (71:31)

I don't.

Nick (71:32)

He's a selfish person. Maybe that's more accurate. He's incredibly selfish. And honestly, like, as shitty as you found out, the manner in which you found out, I know someone's probably already said this to You. But when it comes to, like, this type of terrible news, you know, the sooner you find out, the better.

Caller 3 - Taylor (71:50)

In retrospect, I do think it was a blessing that I found out before she arrived because I was able to grieve and process it before she was here.

Nick (71:59)

Any type of man to do that at seven months. First of all, he doesn't even understand the stress that he caused you and your daughter. He's a piece of shit. There's just no other way to slice that. Right.

Caller 3 - Taylor (72:14)

I mean, and it's hard because a lot of people assume, okay, you know, your husband left you, you're a single mom, oh, you must have gotten pregnant accidentally. I'm like, no, I was married for five years. Because a lot of times when it happens, it's.

Nick (72:29)

Yeah, whatever the reason why. I mean, it's just. Is he still pursuing his dream to be a tennis player?

Caller 3 - Taylor (72:35)

Yeah, he is. And I think that's the biggest problem is that a fuzzy yellow ball has always been more important than anything else to him. And I should have seen signs earlier on in our marriage when he decided not to attend his sister's wedding for a tennis tournament. Just little things like that. Red flags that I ignored.

Nick (72:54)

Yeah, I don't know. I would have beat myself up over that. You're supposed to be able to trust the person you marry, and you're supposed to be able to take people at their word. And you're not supposed to be in a relationship where you have to second guess every little thing. He's chasing this, a dream that's very hard to accomplish. And you do have to make a lot of sacrifices. I'm sure he's convinced himself of that and justified some of his selfish choices. That being said, there's always a line, you know, to me, you know, if he wanted to get married and he wanted to be a dad, he should have been able to figure out how to do both. You know, I think very few people work harder than me. I'm a better husband and a better dad than I am a worker. And I'm still crushing it in work, you know, you just, you find a balance.

Caller 3 - Taylor (73:40)

Yeah, I think the biggest thing for him is he feels like he has to be in Miami because that's where there's year round tennis, because it's sunny.

Nick (73:52)

Well, yeah, but like, I don't. That's really not really the point because correct me if I'm wrong, I'm guessing when you guys had this conversation about moving to North Carolina, he could have said, listen, I. I know it's not ideal. I know it's expensive, but like, I need to be here. And we'll just, we just. Let's figure it out in Miami. You might not have liked it, but I'm guessing you would have made that work.

Caller 3 - Taylor (74:15)

Yeah. Anything to keep our marriage.

Nick (74:18)

Yeah.

Caller 3 - Taylor (74:19)

You know, function, functioning. Yeah.

Nick (74:22)

The truth is, Mike, you know, he's going to end up being a lifetime coach at a country club. Let's just be real here, you know what I'm saying? He's going to end, you know, he's going to date around and he's to going to be one of those cliche single guy, like the type of guy who can leave his pregnant wife at seven months and move back to Miami and then visit his daughter once in six months, is the type of guy who, quite honestly, he does not have what it takes to make it. He doesn't, like, you have to have a certain level of character and follow through. And he is definitely a quitter. If he really believed in his ability to make it as a tennis pro and he thought. And if he thought he needed to be in Miami, he would have never moved back in the first place. Like, something's not adding up. You know, in my mind, one plus one isn't equaling two. I think what you have is some guy who, like, at the end of the day, didn't want to grow up. He loves playing tennis, I don't think. You know, now he's just going to keep playing and convince himself he's still trying, but at the end of the day, he's probably not going to ever really make it. And he's definitely going to be like, really good at tennis and he'll become like some kind of novelty and he'll, you know, like, honestly, again, he'll. He'll be. He'll be a tennis pro at a country club.

Caller 2 - Emma (75:34)

Yeah.

Caller 3 - Taylor (75:35)

And what's interesting when you mentioned the tennis and country club. So when we moved to North Carolina, that's what he did. He got a job at a country club being a coach, and he hated it. And that was part of his decision to move back to Miami was okay, I don't want to just settle for working at a country club. I want to keep pursuing my dreams. So when we moved to North Carolina, he kind of made that sacrifice and said, I'm starting a family. I'm kind of. I'm giving up on professional tennis and doing coaching. But then he just had to actually, no, I don't want to do that. I'm going to move back and Keep pursuing my dreams and leave my wife.

Nick (76:09)

How good at Tennessee is he?

Caller 3 - Taylor (76:11)

He's really good. It's. It's just he.

Nick (76:13)

Well, compared to. Compared to the best. I don't.

Caller 3 - Taylor (76:15)

Not compared to me, he's in the top 1000. But in tennis, in order to be making a lot of money, you've got to be in the top 100.

Nick (76:23)

Yeah. So how old is.

Caller 3 - Taylor (76:25)

He's 25.

Nick (76:27)

He's getting up there for professional athletes, you know.

Caller 3 - Taylor (76:31)

Yeah, exactly. So.

Nick (76:33)

And I'm guessing most of the people who aren't in the top 100 with aspirations of being in the top 100 are in, like, are 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 years old.

Caller 3 - Taylor (76:48)

Exactly. And that's how it was when we first got married. When he was 20, we were traveling all over the world for his time. We were living in Northern Africa and Colombia. And he had sponsors. He had older men that would give him money to play tennis because they thought he had a shot. But when he wasn't winning tournaments, the sponsors started to fizzle out, and that's when his. His career started to plummet.

Nick (77:09)

Yeah.

Caller 3 - Taylor (77:10)

And I was financially supporting us the entire time.

Nick (77:13)

Well, that's. I mean, listen, like, giving you the tough. Not that you need. You don't need tough love, but you're gonna get through this. And you have a right to, like, feel bad for yourself because, like, this do. There is a point where you just have to stop feeling bad for yourself and not let this ruin your life. I mean, this is a type of event that is so traumatic and so up that since you have every right to feel bad for yourself, it could drastically ruin your life. It could change your life. It could. I'm a big believer. If you listen to the show and, like, our choices matter. Life's not fair, and we will make certain choices that we don't get back. And it's not because, you know, your husband didn't leave you, because everything happens for a reason. You know what I'm saying? You weren't destined to have this happen for you. It's not fate. It's just dumb fucking luck. And it's not fair. And it happened to you. That being said, you know, I'm looking at you right now. You have a beautiful daughter, I'm guessing. I'm sure she's the love of your life. You know, you wouldn't trade it for the world, even though it came from that piece of shit. Right? You have, obviously, a career or ability to not only support yourself or your daughter, but you have yet to support Him. You don't even have to support him anymore. Who knows whether he's going to contribute or not. But that's certainly something, an option for you. But you're clearly young enough that. Not ideal, not certainly where you imagine yourself to be. And I'm saying this again, like, maybe not my place, but you did call in. This is the. What you were dealt. And you're just gonna have to figure it out. And you can and you will. And I just think you're better off having that mindset. And I only say that because, like, given what happened to you again, no one, no one would fault you from just feeling sorry for yourself. But that's not gonna get you anywhere. That is only gonna give him more power, and that is only going to give him more credit he doesn't deserve. And you have, like, this is a more of a clean slate. It's. Honestly, in some ways, you know, like, it's like, worst case scenario, it's like he's the type of guy who wants a cake and eat it too, and he wants to be difficult, make your life a living hell and not really be a dad, but, like, wants to think he can be a dad. You know what I'm saying?

Host 1 (79:40)

Like, there's.

Nick (79:40)

There's a. There's a million ways this could be more difficult. And as shitty as it is that he, you know, know he doesn't care. And you want him to care. Like, it honestly makes your life a lot easier. Like, I. I pity your daughter a little bit because her dad's, you know, not a dad. But as far as you're concerned, honestly, like, maybe for the best in a way. I don't know if any of this is helpful. I don't. I don't. Like, yeah, it's helpful, but, like, I guess. What were you hoping to get out of this conversation? Like, what were you hoping to feel, if anything, when you got off the call with.

Caller 3 - Taylor (80:11)

To me, I think just validation from a man's perspective because I hear from all of my female friends that it's awful what he did, but there have been a few of his friends that have reached out and said, hey, you know, he's trying to pursue his dreams. You can't fault him for that.

Nick (80:26)

He's a piece of shit. His friends are losers. And I don't. Like, he's a piece of shit. I don't. I'm just like, he's. Yeah, he's a piece of shit. He should be embarrassed. He should be ashamed. And if most, like, I don't know he's either gonna wake, maybe he won't, maybe he's too selfish. But, like, he is on a path to like kind of being a little loser and the reality of life. And again, when you're 25, especially someone like him who's already been able to travel the world, he's had the opportunity.

Host 1 (80:51)

To chase a dream.

Nick (80:51)

Most people don't even have that chance. And maybe this will be a silver lining for you to feel better in the future, but when you have big dreams, you can crash pretty hard. And that's probably why he's struggling with it. But he clearly doesn't have whatever it takes to move the fuck on and to reinvent himself. I had to reinvent myself multiple times. You know, like, I didn't imagine I'd be like a podcaster talking about pop culture with an audience full of women. You know, it's like I didn't plan that for myself. It worked out in a sense. You know, I was able to find out what I was passionate about. Like, there were times when I was younger that I, you know, thought of like being a therapist and things like that and thought it was too late to be go to school. But like the aspect of like this type of stuff, like, I, I'm passionate about it, I enjoy it, whatever. But he doesn't have what it takes to adapt, to follow through. You know, he's at the excuse making point of his career and the fact that he has his buddies calling you up telling him to like. I don't. What. What was the goal of them calling him up? Like what? To forgive him? To like, to what?

Caller 3 - Taylor (81:53)

Well, a lot of the times they reach out, it's to pry, to get information about what's going on in his life because he, when he divorced me, he also cut out his family and his friends.

Caller 2 - Emma (82:02)

Friends.

Nick (82:03)

I mean. Yeah, yeah.

Caller 3 - Taylor (82:04)

So a lot of times they're just trying to pry. And then with that, I share information with them which I should not even be doing in the first place. I should not be responding to them. But then they somehow sometimes try and have his back.

Nick (82:18)

It's your silver lining is like, as bad as it feels right now for you, you're gonna have the chance to figure your shit out. You're gonna have a chance to look to like, pick up the pieces that. Of the mess he made.

Caller 3 - Taylor (82:32)

Yeah.

Nick (82:33)

You'll be able to find love again. You'll be able to like raise your daughter and have a connection with her. Something he is eventually going to regret. You know, a lot of deadbeat dads out there who have the embarrassing conversation with their kids or adults and they have to apologize for being deadbeat dads. And if you're Tom Brady and you're the best in the world at what you do, there's a slightly. A silver lining. But even Tom Brady. Brady has spoken about regrets of his. Most likely your ex husband won't be Tom Brady. He will just be stuck doing the thing. He's going to end up being a coach at a country club without his family, without having a relationship with his daughter, knowing that he was a piece of shit. And he didn't like, he just. It's like he couldn't be the best in tennis and he was a failure as a father.

Caller 3 - Taylor (83:21)

Yeah, exactly.

Nick (83:23)

I mean, like, you know, some people are losers in this world. Most. No, everyone, like, thinks, you know, that they are. I think so. I think some people are just losers and not, you know, because they don't have what it takes. They don't want to respond to adversity. They don't want to suck it up. They don't want to make sacrifices. They won't want to find a silver lining. You know, there's a. You know, maybe your husband didn't want to be, you know, it's fine. He didn't want. He didn't have to be a country club instructor his whole life. That was a potential temporary, that was a stop. You know, it was something that allowed him to make money, provide for his family, do what he still loved. But like, maybe it just wasn't in the cards for him to play tennis his whole life. You know, most of us who are good at sports only get to play competitive sports through college if you're lucky at that. You know, most of us, it's high school. He was lucky enough to keep going, but he didn't want to accept that he had to, like, grow up a little bit.

Caller 3 - Taylor (84:09)

Yeah.

Nick (84:09)

And now he's just like, he's literally chasing a dream. A dream that's like only getting worse. And now he's just like, showing up to tournaments, like, and no, it's funny. It's like deep down he knows he's not going to make. Make it, which is why he's cut out his family because he's embarrassed and he's so selfish that he would rather be selfish and rather than face the truth that he just, like, couldn't hack it. And it's not embarrassing to say, you know what? Fuck, I wanted to make the Olympics when I was in track and field. Like, I didn't fucking Melt down and like, you know, just because, like, hey, I wasn't good enough, it's fine. You know, like sometimes there are certain things in this world, especially when it comes to athletics, you know, it's just.

Caller 3 - Taylor (84:49)

Like, like you have to be able to pivot.

Nick (84:53)

Yeah. It's like your ex husband was born with some incredible gifts, but he wasn't born with enough, you know, because it sounds like he works pretty hard.

Host 1 (85:03)

I don't know.

Nick (85:03)

Maybe not though. Like, he's clearly a quitter, that's for sure. Like the fact that he did what he did to you, it's in his DNA to quit. And the manner in which he quit is so outrageous that it is a character flaw in his.

Caller 2 - Emma (85:17)

Him.

Nick (85:17)

Anyone who's been reached a certain milestone is not going to see him leaving his family is a sign of his dedication to being successful at tennis. They're going to see it as a sign of him as a failure as a person and that he lacks certain characteristics in follow through and dedication and the ability to work through adversity. That's how I see it.

Caller 3 - Taylor (85:41)

Exactly. And tennis is a sport where people don't just follow the sport and the player, they also follow their lives too. And even if he was to make it and people knew that he was an absent father, it probably wouldn't boast well for him.

Nick (85:54)

No, he's, he's. He quit. He quit.

Caller 3 - Taylor (85:56)

Yeah.

Nick (85:57)

You know, he's gonna have, you know, I hope he doesn't have any mirrors because he's gonna have a hard time looking and he's a bum. I mean, he's gonna be a bum.

Caller 3 - Taylor (86:03)

Yeah, he is. It's sad because he had also, he's an immigrant, so he was born in West Africa and he got citizenship through marriage as well. And he's just able to pursue the quote unquote American dream and have a healthy family life because he didn't have a very healthy family life. And he just was given so much of a blessing and he just tossed it in the trash, didn't realize what he had.

Nick (86:29)

But that's his problem. I think what you need to do, I mean, you know, I'm here to commiserate with you and invalidate that he is a bum and a loser. And his friends are, you know, they're all, you know, you can give them grace because they're scrambling too, because he clearly has made some radical decisions. But my best advice I can offer you is to not become obsessed with putting him down to make yourself feel better. Like, you just gotta know that. And Let it go. Yeah. You know, and you gotta focus on being the best mom possible. You gotta focus on getting your life back together at a place where you, like, don't feel sorry for yourself and start feeling more proud, you know, you gotta focus on what you are doing that you can be proud of rather than focus on what happened to you, where you feel like a victim. I mean, you are a victim. There's no doubt about it. You are a victim of this guy. Right. But I wouldn't let it define you, and I wouldn't sit in that state of mind. And I would use it as something to. Look what I overcame. I would focus on five years from now and how you can. And the story you can tell whoever listens about what you've been able to work through and what you can be proud of and what you're. The story your daughter is going to be able to tell people at her graduation or whatever it is about what mom did for me and what she sacrificed for me. And you can be the most pivotal person in her life. And I would absolutely focus on that rather than focus on what he did or follow his career and hope that it fails.

Caller 3 - Taylor (88:07)

I've told myself if I can go through 46 hours of unmedicated labor while grieving the loss of my husband, I can do damn near anything, because, I mean.

Host 1 (88:16)

But that's the mindset you have to have.

Nick (88:17)

You really do be the person he clearly is not capable of being.

Caller 3 - Taylor (88:22)

Yeah. I will anything for my daughter. And I hope that she sees that I'm doing everything I can for her and I'll never badmouth her father to her. She'll be able to.

Nick (88:32)

She'll figure it out.

Caller 3 - Taylor (88:32)

Make that. Yeah, she'll figure it out on her own.

Nick (88:34)

Yeah. I'm really sorry. It sucks.

Caller 3 - Taylor (88:37)

Thank you. I appreciate it, but.

Nick (88:39)

Yeah, you'll get through it. How's your. I mean, I'm assuming you feel good about your support system around you and your family, your immediate family and things like that.

Caller 3 - Taylor (88:47)

Oh, yeah, definitely. My family's been a godsend. My mom, she moved in with me while I was pregnant to be there for me. And they all live in North Carolina within 10 minutes of me. So I have a big support system with my family and also friends.

Nick (89:02)

Okay, well, there you go then.

Caller 3 - Taylor (89:04)

I'd love to inspire other single moms.

Caller 2 - Emma (89:06)

Moms.

Caller 3 - Taylor (89:07)

And use my story to empower other moms going through something similar.

Nick (89:11)

Absolutely. All right, well, thanks for the call. I am sorry this happened to you. Please, please check back in. We'd love an update on how things are progressing, especially as you. As you move forward to brighter and better things.

Caller 3 - Taylor (89:24)

Yeah, I definitely will. Thank you so much, Nick. I really appreciate it.

Nick (89:27)

All right, take care.

Caller 3 - Taylor (89:28)

Bye.

Caller 1 - Rose (89:28)

All right.

Nick (89:29)

Bye.

Caller 2 - Emma (89:29)

Bye. You're crazy, Sam.