E1031 - Mandy Matney Talks Murdaugh Murders, Gerry Turner's Terrifying Comments, RHOC, RHOP & Wife Swap

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Viall Files E1031 – Mandy Matney Talks Murdaugh Murders, Golden Bachelor Scandal, & Reality TV (Nov 11, 2025)

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Episode Overview

In this Reality Recap "Lake House Edition," Nick Viall and the Viall Files household host investigative journalist Mandy Matney for an in-depth segment on the Murdaugh murders and Hulu’s “Murdaugh: Death in the Family.” The team also serves up recaps and hot takes on the latest drama from The Real Housewives universe, “Wife Swap: The Real Housewives Edition,” and the wildest headlines in reality television. Other key topics include the latest Golden Bachelor controversy, Selling Sunset’s villain turn, new BravoCon feuds, and pop culture shade.

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Major Topics & Discussion Points

1. New Merch Announcement & Lake House Vibes [01:09–08:12]

• The crew celebrates launching new Viall Files merch—after six years and a thousand episodes—highlighting Natalie’s creative direction and design by Rachel Ritt (Ed Sheeran/Grateful Dead insider).
• Jokes about Jeff the golden doodle starring on the hoodie ("Mary: Jeff is Nick. So I figured why not? And, like, who doesn't want to wear something with a cute dog on it?" [05:28]).
• Light banter about special places, self-care, and prepping for cold weather (“It gets me excited to, like, survive out in the cold. It makes me feel like I'm a caveman, just, like, preparing for, like, survival.” – Nick [10:01]).

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2. BravoCon, Reality TV Headlines & Feuds [10:58–20:18]

• Nick preps for his first BravoCon, feeling like he's entering a new universe. Listeners get inside scoop on who’s attending—Lisa Barlow, Karen Huger, Sheena rumors about joining RHOC, and potential “Squash the Beef” segments.
• A recap of celebrity social media beefs and shifting alliances: "Sheena was pissed at Tamara and Teddi...they were going back and forth over social media." – Sierra [13:08].
• The group debates the sudden cast reboot for “Beyond the Villa” and reflects on why recasting might become standard in reality dating spinoffs.

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3. Selling Sunset Lightning Round [20:24–22:24]

• Sierra dubs Selling Sunset “the Bluey for adults—reality television. The same story, the same thing over and over again. Minimal stakes drama. Except Emma and Chrishell have a falling out.” [20:34]
• Chrishell is now painted as the season's villain (due to her response to Emma’s boyfriend drama) and will not return next season.

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4. The Golden Bachelor’s Disturbing Dark Joke [22:24–28:16]

• The household reacts in shock to Teresa’s revelations on Dear Shandy podcast that Gerry Turner joked, “See that shed up there?...that’s where I’m going to hide your body after I kill you and chop you up.” [23:15]
• “That’s not like dark humor. That’s just dark.” – Sierra [23:27]
• Conversation analyzes the increasingly “grim” trajectory of fame, even in senior reality TV, and the unsettling/awkward lines between banter and threats.

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5. Orlando Bloom, Katy Perry & Costume Shading [28:28–31:10]

• The team dissects Orlando Bloom's new girlfriend dressing up as Katy Perry for Halloween, and if that’s hilarious or just bad co-parenting optics. “It’s giving disrespectful to the mother of your child.” – Nick [30:26].
• All agree Katy Perry’s new breakup song “Band Aids” (“it’s giving like early Katy Perry” – Natalie [31:04]) is a vibe shift and a comeback.

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6. Reality TV Lightning Recaps & Relationship Dynamics

Wife Swap: The Real Housewives Edition [34:13–42:19]

• Emily Simpson’s episode prompts reflections on the unseen grind of long-term marriage.
• Nick: “All men, on some level, are no more complicated than dogs… a little appreciation goes a long way.” [37:27]
• The group highlights how lack of appreciation quickly builds resentment and small gestures can be relationship game-changers.

RHOC Reunion, Rapid Recap [42:19–51:19]

• OC drama highlights: Shannon’s “Zen” claims (shot down with every outburst), Gretchen’s return, and Slade’s mysterious gig.
• “If you have to explain your compliment, it’s not a compliment.” – Nick [50:50]
• Tamra’s hypocrisy and reactive spiral is dissected ("…when Andy said that and she responded… I don’t think she thought she was proving his point." – Mary [46:14])
• Andy Cohen’s hair unexpectedly unites the panel in agreement!

RHOP Quick Recap [51:19–55:38]

• Giselle’s monogram shade, Ashley’s new flirtations, and the chaos of Jazzy’s bachelorette.
• Angel’s flip-flopping moods fuel drama. “She does this…says she’s cool, but then she’s still mad the next day.” – Mary [53:30]
• Potomac women’s ability to combine lingerie, conflict, and endless twists admired.

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7. Interview: Mandy Matney & the Murdaugh Murders [63:28–107:41]

On Breaking the Story and Backlash [64:49–67:41]

• Mandy recalls being an “outsider” reporter in SC, getting warnings: “Nobody talks about this family like this…be careful, watch your back.” [66:49]
• Motivation came from local pleas—“If you don’t stop this, nobody will.” [67:41]

Living Through the Tragedy [68:29–72:02]

• Mandy was already obsessed with the Murdaughs after the 2019 boat crash. She immediately suspected family involvement in the 2021 murders: “Nobody’s going to Moselle to kill the Murdaughs on their property…Alec was always super sketchy, so he was definitely a number one suspect.” [68:29]

Law Enforcement & Moral Motive [70:43–73:15]

• Candid about working with police, trading tips and withholding stories to avoid interfering with investigations.
• On motive: “He’s a man who never faced accountability in his life…his problems just kept escalating…he was trying, he had too many problems, he thought he could get sympathy from the…horrible, the murder of his wife and son.” [72:07]

Portrayal in Hulu's Series & Accuracy [74:53–76:37]

• Mandy vouches for the show’s accuracy (as executive producer), acknowledging some timeline shuffles for narrative clarity (like Gloria Satterfield’s death) but defending its overall faithfulness.

Gloria Satterfield & Financial Crimes [77:04–81:07]

• Mandy details discovering the suspicious settlement: “Alex Best friend Corey Fleming is representing the housekeeper's family…all this weird stuff happening…” [77:04]
• It was only after the murders that the true scope was revealed: “Alex stole $3.2 million…that was really the reason why he got exposed for all of his crimes.” [78:54]
• Satterfield family has received $10 million from others' legal failures, “but Alex himself never had to give a dime.” [80:30]

Stephen Smith Case & Murdaugh Family Power [81:46–88:38]

• Mandy describes the persistent mystery and small-town rumors around Stephen Smith’s death: “The Murdoch name came up in this case 40 times…the worst part is we don’t know what happened.” [83:52]
• “I believe somebody in the Murdoch family had something to do with Stephen’s death…or they know what happened.” [85:51]
• Family’s tactic of offering to represent both victims and suspects as a means of control reemerges.

Series Narrative, Remaining Episodes & Trial Fallout [88:45–93:15]

• The team reacts to the show's ambiguous portrayal of Alec’s guilt—Mandy teases: “Keep watching…no, just keep watching. Like, it's…yeah.” [90:28]
• On the “Becky Hill jury tampering” appeal: “I don’t believe that she tampered with the jury…I think she was very stupid in a lot of things that she did.” [91:07]
• Alec “locked in forever”—life, plus 50 years (financial), and federal charges pending.

Family Fallout & Sympathy [93:52–97:38]

• Nick asks if there’s sympathy for anyone left in the family; Mandy admits: “He never had a chance in the way that he was raised. Him and Buster never really had a chance to be normal.” [95:12]
• The environment denied them boundaries, “They never, ever told them no or gave them any sense of accountability in life.” [95:46]
• Concludes Paul was more emotionally connected—trapped in a toxic legacy.

Loose Threads: Is the Money Still There? [97:42–99:12]

• The Murdoch family still has money, much of it likely hidden, “There is like literally $10 million missing that no one has found…His attorneys tried to say they were doing it pro bono for a while, but we all…you guys don’t do things for free.” [98:03]

Key Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Nobody talks about this family like this…be careful, watch your back.” – Mandy Matney [66:49]
• “He’s a man who never faced accountability in his entire life…and I just think. I also think that, like, murder is never something anybody really understands.” – Mandy Matney [72:07]
• "If you have to explain your compliment, it's not a compliment." – Nick [50:50]
• “I think Paul really, like, felt like an outsider in his family.” – Mandy Matney [97:11]
• “If the boat crash doesn’t happen, do you think Paul and Maggie are alive today?” “Somebody was gonna die. The boat crash just brought it to light.” – Nick & Mandy [99:12–100:02]

Minor Moments and Humor

• The entire cast jokes about the overuse of “Bo” in the Hulu series (“My opinion: in Hilton Head, no one says bo. In the rural middle of South Carolina, it's said a lot more”—Mandy [103:32]).
• Mandy dishes on Jason Clarke’s transformation—“on set, he acted just like Alec Murdoch…never heard his Australian accent once.” [105:39]

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Final Thoughts

• The episode offers a dynamic, emotionally honest, and detailed breakdown of the Murdaugh murders from an on-the-ground perspective, plus all the mess and shade currently animating the reality TV world.
• The Viall Files hosts and Mandy Matney balance true crime gravitas with their trademark wit, relatable relationship chat, and an appreciation for just how weird the reality universe can get.

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Where to Listen & Follow:

• @MandyMatney on Instagram
• “True Sunlight Podcast” and “Cup of Justice Podcast”
• Hulu’s "Murdaugh: Death in the Family" (new episodes dropping!)
• Viall Files merch launches Thursday

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Transcript

[Nick]

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[Mandy Matney]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Reality recap. Lake House edition. That's right. Natalie and I are here at the lake. We have a great show lined up for you. So many exciting announcements to get into. We are all at the household wearing merch. That's right. A thousand episodes later, six years later, we finally have merch that we are proud of. Over the years, if you've been with us since the beginning, we've dabbled in the merch department. But here at the Vile Files, at Envy Media, the household cares about quality. We care about what we put on our bodies. We care about, like, it has to be good. We want to believe in it. And we finally have merch that we love. It's comfortable, it's cozy, it looks good. Natalie put a lot of heart and sweat and thought into this. She hired a graphic designer who works on, like, music albums. You know, the person who did our logo for the vile follows media. It is rocking and rolling. The merch goes on sale on Thursday. Join our countdown for the launch of our merch. Go to the link in bio on the show's Instagram or my personal Instagram to join the countdown.

[Natalie]

It's really soft, too.

[Nick]

The aesthetic is aestheticing. I'm really, I'm proud. I'm really proud of it. Natalie did an amazing job. Support Natalie's creative efforts and get our merch.

[Mary]

Rachel Ritt was our graphic designer. She has done the album covers for in merch for Ed Sheeran, the Grateful Dead, Fleetwood, Fleetwood Mac. I mean, like, I'm on her Instagram right now. The top of her resume, she is nonstop. And now at the top of her resume, Valfas Merch.

[Leia]

Yeah. Who even is Fleetwood Mac.

[Mary]

Exactly.

[Leia]

Never heard of him. Grateful Dead.

[Nick]

Now also this episode we have Mandy Matney. She's an investigative journalist covering the Murdoch murders. She's also the executive producer for the series that's now on. Hulu Murdoch, Death in the Family. She's been covering this case since the beginning. What's so fascinating about her? And her character is played by Britney Snow. In this series, she was investigating the Murdoch family because of the boat crash that killed Mallory Beach. So she was already like, very much involved in investigating this family and all their kind of shady dealings when the murder of Maggie and Paul happened. So that's this kind of, I mean, talk about a front row seat this entire case. I mean, she is a part of the case. And again, her character is, is, is, is played in the series. So she joins us this episode to give us all the four on one on the case itself. What is accurate about this series, what's not, what are some creative liberties. It's very fascinating. And she will be joining us later this episode.

[Mary]

Patricia Arquette plays Maggie, the wife, the mother. You know, if you know anything about Patricia Arquette, she can play a mom. You know, she can play a mom. Gypsy Rose.

[Sierra]

There we go.

[Nick]

Yeah. Her most famous character, Alabama from True Romance.

[Leia]

Shout out.

[Justin]

It's Patricia Arquette. Jason Clark.

[Nick]

Jason Clark is playing Alex Murdoch.

[Mary]

Alex. Alex Murdoch, which is crazy that he is like, has a British accent. He's from London or England. And he like, puts on this southern accent so. Well, he gained £40 for the role. It's like they did. Yeah, they crushed this. And the only thing that pisses me off about this damn show is that every other word is bow. And let me tell you, being from the south, we don't use bow that much. We do use it like bro. Bro. Or like, it's like, you know, so.

[Justin]

Bo is bro, I guess, kind of.

[Nick]

They really.

[Mary]

It's used in a real way.

[Nick]

Emphasize it on the show. Everyone.

[Mary]

They really emphasize it, which is a little annoying for me.

[Justin]

But can you give me a sentence?

[Mary]

What are you doing over there, Beau?

[Nick]

Should we go to the star?

[Natalie]

Bo.

[Nick]

Bo. That really hurt my feelings, Beau.

[Leia]

This is when I realized I'm not from the real South.

[Natalie]

It's like an accent, right? Like, you're just not pronouncing the R as much.

[Mary]

I don't know. But honestly, like, we don't use it that much and it's that's my one critique of this. The writing of this show. And I, you know, I'm open to asking Mandy about it. I have a feeling she will be like, that was not a M.E. department.

[Nick]

You know, we are really excited. Unnecessary.

[Mary]

Steve, Steve.

[Sierra]

Steve has a bone to pick about not being on the sweatshirt. So he said, let me on the episode, literally.

[Mary]

And I. You know what? Let me just explain myself with that design thought.

[Justin]

Yeah, please. I am actually curious.

[Mary]

So on the back of our gray hoodie and our beige crew neck is a picture of Jeff. And that is because Jeff is Nick, you know? And, like, no one besides me would really want a hoodie with Nick on it. So I was like, what's the next best thing? Oh, Jeff. He looks like Nick. He. He acts like Nick. He is an introvert. Like, Nick. He gives his opinion. Like Nick. Jeff is Nick. So I figured why not? And, like, who doesn't want to wear something with a cute dog on it?

[Nick]

A grumpy, so true dog.

[Mary]

A cute golden doodle. It's perfect. He's sitting in Nick's chair. He has a mic. It's cute. And then our black hoodie sweatset is the iconic do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy? Which is a Asnic staple, and it's very colorful.

[Nick]

It's very cute.

[Mary]

And you might get stopped in line at coffee by your future lover.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Mary]

If you wear it.

[Leia]

Wow.

[Mary]

Wait, really?

[Sierra]

Mary's wearing it head to toe right now.

[Leia]

Let's go.

[Sierra]

She's ready.

[Leia]

I'm really ready.

[Mary]

Mary just updated her hench, so.

[Nick]

Well, you know who's never grumpy like Nick?

[Mary]

That is honestly so true, y'.

[Justin]

All.

[Nick]

Lake Nick's a different person. I have nothing but gratitude when I'm at the lake. I'm living the dream. Every time I'm up here, I'm like, I can't believe we're here. It is really just, like, a surreal thing. Like, I'm just really excited to be at the lake. I hope all. Do you guys all have, like, a special. Like, where is your special place on this earth?

[Justin]

My bed.

[Mary]

It's a good place.

[Sierra]

My bed. With my bed.

[Justin]

My bed.

[Nick]

Is there, like, a location that, like, you just feel at peace outside of your bed?

[Leia]

I have. I was gonna say specifically the beach, like, with my mom.

[Mary]

There you go.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Shopping.

[Mary]

Yes, of course.

[Leia]

No, that stresses me out.

[Nick]

If Justin could live anywhere in peace, it would be a Zara's.

[Natalie]

I've shopped in Azara's, like, twice in my life.

[Mary]

Wait, Zara actually kind of popped off recently.

[Natalie]

Zara's does pop off, but I've been in it like, twice in my life.

[Leia]

Wait, we're saying Zara's?

[Mary]

Yeah, Zaro.

[Leia]

Zara.

[Natalie]

Like the store?

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Mary's never heard of it.

[Leia]

No, I know.

[Sierra]

You're saying it wrong.

[Leia]

Excuse me, I have pieces from Zara. I was just saying. You were saying Zara's.

[Mary]

Yeah, y' all were making.

[Justin]

Dustin does make most things plural. And if you'll notice, I love that about that.

[Natalie]

It's my dialect. Okay.

[Nick]

I love that when he wants to say women, he says woman.

[Natalie]

No, I'm saying it with an A. I just pronounce it with an E. Like, I visualize the A woman.

[Leia]

It's like when he describes someone who was a social worker as working in socials.

[Natalie]

That was a joke, though.

[Nick]

Well, the. The hot tub in the sauna are in at the lake house. And it's.

[Natalie]

It's.

[Nick]

It's giving spa. It's giving cozy. It really is. I get to set fireplace, sauna, hot tub.

[Justin]

I will say best place ever is in a hot tub when it's cold outside. Like when it's snowing, looking at the lake. That's what it looks like you guys were doing.

[Mary]

It was 33 degrees outside.

[Nick]

My dream date, guys, tonight, like, by the time you guys are listening, tomorrow, hopefully the Green Bay packers will have been victorious over the Eagles of Philadelphia. My dad and I are going to super excited. It's a cold weather game. This is like, I don't know, maybe this is something only for the boys. I don't know. But, like, it may surprise some people that I am not necessarily like the camping kind of guy. I'm not necessarily Mr. Rugged, but there's something that I get really excited about, and that is to, like, prepare my outdoor outfit. It's like when fashion meets sports. And I get to like my aesthetic for the game, but I have to be able to stay warm. And it's like a whole production.

[Sierra]

It's very.

[Justin]

Your outfit gonna be.

[Nick]

Well, I have this Green Bay. I have a Green Bay jacker bomber that's like you would think, oh, Nick, how could you wear this at a game that's gonna be anywhere from like 27 to 30 degrees, which is like, for. Green Bay is not that cold, but you'll be. I'll be standing outside with my dad, but I have a bunch of. It's all about the layers. And I got like a Columbia, like in like a thermo jacket, and I got a Bunch of tights I'm wearing to keep the legs warm. Like those athletic workout. I got some long johns, too.

[Mary]

Got pantyhose.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Long johns and tights.

[Leia]

Let's go.

[Nick]

Two layers of tights and long johns and then slacks and then a packer hoodie and then a packer hat.

[Natalie]

What about the hand warmers?

[Justin]

What about socks?

[Nick]

I got all those hand warmers ready to go. Put them in the socks. Yeah.

[Justin]

What's your sock game?

[Natalie]

Oh, yeah. Double socks.

[Leia]

Double sock it up.

[Natalie]

Insulated socks.

[Justin]

Nothing worse than cold toes.

[Leia]

True.

[Nick]

Yeah. You got to protect your feet. It's all about the feet.

[Mary]

He also.

[Nick]

It gets me excited to, like, survive out in the cold. It's like, it makes me. I'm, like, fantasizing about what it'd be like to be, like, stranded in the arctic by myself and I have to have all the survival gear.

[Natalie]

That's.

[Nick]

That's my mentality going into a packer game.

[Natalie]

You know how men used to, like, hunt for food for their family? Yeah. I respect that. Men now get to survive a Packers game.

[Nick]

That's exactly what.

[Justin]

You'll also be stuffed in there like sardines. You're going to have a bunch of body heat.

[Nick]

It gets me so excited. I feel like I'm a caveman, just, like, preparing for, like, survival.

[Mary]

He made me pause my show the other night to tell me his list of items of clothing he's wearing.

[Nick]

I was very excited and then ended.

[Mary]

With, like, I don't know. I just wanted to tell you what.

[Justin]

Are you bringing to Bravo Con?

[Mary]

No, Hasn't.

[Justin]

Haven't packed.

[Nick]

I. What should do I. Should I be.

[Justin]

Are you excited to pack for that? And you should be what you're going to wear.

[Nick]

Do I need, like, a kit, a survival kit for Bravocon?

[Mandy Matney]

You might.

[Nick]

I am going to my first bravocon. We are going. Leia, Justin, and Sierra will all be joining. I will be there just hamming it up with all the. All the fans. I'll be there on behalf of European Wax center at their confidence booth. So if you want to learn all about some waxing and hang out with me, come and say hello. What. What do people do at Bravocon? I really. I'm really intimidated by this audience. I feel like I'm really about to embark on a whole new universe. Do you think it will be welcomed?

[Justin]

For sure.

[Nick]

I got a random text from Whitney Rose, and she was like, are you going to Bravocon? I said yes, and that was the end of the conversation. I don't know if she does she need a heads up. Is she like, is that a pulse check?

[Justin]

Well, but you didn't. Yes. And you just said yes.

[Nick]

That's true.

[Leia]

You should have been like, yes. Will I see you there?

[Justin]

Yes. Where are we meeting up?

[Nick]

It was. Yeah, I just answered the question.

[Justin]

You still can.

[Nick]

I kind of want to be surprised.

[Leia]

Whitney, if you listen to this, text Nick back.

[Nick]

Who'S one Bravo celebrity you hope you get to talk to.

[Natalie]

That's hard because we talk to so many.

[Sierra]

There's so many.

[Natalie]

Lisa Barlow.

[Sierra]

I'm happy. I'm excited to see Katie Janela again. She'll be there.

[Natalie]

Karen Huger is going to be there.

[Mary]

I would love to talk to her.

[Sierra]

Karen Huger is going to be there.

[Justin]

That's big.

[Sierra]

Her first appearance since being released from prison.

[Natalie]

Any Dubai housewives.

[Nick]

Is Tom Swartz and his new girlfriend going?

[Leia]

I sure hope so.

[Justin]

I don't know about the Valley.

[Leia]

Isn't he this year the new girlfriend named. Named Kiana Carroll? Very beautiful model.

[Sierra]

I believe.

[Justin]

So they hard launched.

[Leia]

Yes. Via Instagram.

[Nick]

Anyone check on Lola?

[Leia]

So we checked on Cheenah.

[Justin]

Sheena will be there.

[Mary]

Will she be there?

[Sierra]

Yes, she will. And she already has the beef with Tamara and Katie after them having Mike Shea. Mike Shea perform at their viewing party.

[Leia]

That's crazy.

[Nick]

Is this real beef? Like has she been like, hey, I'm mad at these ladies and I want revenge.

[Natalie]

She's like low key campaigning to get on OC because remember Alex Baskin also posted like OC with Sheena in it. So like that's teasing something. Yeah, she said she would love to be on OC Housewives. She was looped into the Katy drama of it all.

[Sierra]

That's what I was saying was that Sheena was pissed at Tamara and Teddi because Teddi had Katie on and on an episode and they said that Sheena was the start of all of the Kiki Monique drama and whatnot. So then they were going back and forth over social media. Sheena went out to like a horror nights or whatever and got one of those scary dressed clowns and was like found a cast member from OC like throwing shade back and forth. And I don't even know if they're doing Squash the Beef this year at Bravo Con.

[Nick]

So it's like Squash the Beef.

[Sierra]

So they have this segment every year where it's the biggest Bravo celeb feuds face each other. Like they sit down and they like pretty much have like a little panel going back and forth so that they can squash the beef or not. Um, yeah, it's like. It's a juicy. It's a juicy segment, but I didn't see it on the schedule this year.

[Nick]

Do you think anyone's going to want to squash their beef with us? Do you think we'll catch any strays like Vicki Gundelson? Caught one on this reunion. A lot of people catch.

[Leia]

Yeah, a lot of people.

[Justin]

Would you want to sit across from to squash beef?

[Nick]

I don't have beef with anybody.

[Sierra]

Cool.

[Leia]

You know who probably aren't going to squash their beef at Bravo Con anytime soon?

[Mary]

Who?

[Leia]

Garcelle and Sutton.

[Natalie]

I mean, I like Garcelle.

[Justin]

Well, yeah. Why would Garcelle go?

[Leia]

Basically, Garcelle and Sutton were both on a red carpet and Garcelle, like, had her back turned to Sutton the entire time and was just ignoring her.

[Natalie]

I know she's love Garcelle, love Sutton, but I mean, they're not holding back. They're clearly not friends right now.

[Leia]

No. And I personally love to see drama between two.

[Natalie]

To turn your back on red carpet is very blatant sign that you don't like someone because you're usually standing side by side. No.

[Justin]

Do you know who will be at BravoCon?

[Sierra]

Who?

[Justin]

Some of the new cast members of beyond The Villa Season 2.

[Nick]

Really exciting.

[Mary]

Why would they be there?

[Natalie]

Why would they be at Bravagon?

[Justin]

I don't know. They just are going. Well, it's.

[Natalie]

I mean, did they say they're going?

[Nick]

Are you saying they're going Vertical integration.

[Justin]

They definitely are going.

[Sierra]

Chanel and Carolyn Stansberry will be there for you.

[Natalie]

Justin, Caroline, love her. The whole cast. Bring back Dubai.

[Sierra]

We've got Carol Roswell is going to be there.

[Natalie]

Carol Roswell. She said that she's not coming back.

[Justin]

But she's back on Jeremiah, Amaya and Iris will make an appearance at bravocon on Sunday, November 16th.

[Mary]

Do we think season two of beyond the Villa new cast was their plan all along of like every season? Is the new Love island cast or do we feel like season one cast maybe didn't give what they thought they would give, so they had to do a recast?

[Justin]

For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, we have a new cast for season two of beyond the Villa and it is not the cast that was from season one of beyond the Villa. The new cast is going to be Amaya, Andrina, Baldasha, Brian, Chris Clark, Coco Grayson, Hannah, Iris, Jeremiah, Pepe Taylor and tj. Interesting that we have Iris, Pepe and TJ love triangle. We have exes, Amaya and Brian.

[Mary]

Lotta Casa Amore.

[Justin]

We have Hannah there.

[Leia]

Yeah. Coco and Grayson. Interesting.

[Sierra]

I'm just like. I feel like they're kind of banking off of the hopes that we care about, like, the drama of the love triangles. But, I mean, I personally don't.

[Justin]

I think probably it. This is what I think happened. Natalie, to your original question. I think they probably couldn't get a lot of their heaviest hitters from season one to come back.

[Nick]

You think that's what it was?

[Justin]

They probably. I. I think that's my. That's my thought. Only because it's like, Aaron's in the uk.

[Sierra]

You've got Kayla in New York.

[Justin]

Well, it's Leah and Miguel. I. I don't know if they would have signed up again. Like, you have, like, Serena and I would be shocked. Janae and Kenny, like, they're not going to want to do the show together again.

[Nick]

I would be shocked if, when they signed their original deal, that the network didn't have an option to bring them back. So the fact that, like, I don't know. The fact that they recasted this entire cast tells me that, like, I don't know, that the season one didn't really perform the way they wanted it to. Wouldn't it make more sense to, like, have a group of people that they follow? I think tonight's point. They're just kind of, like, trying to make it work.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Justin]

But, I mean, I feel like there's no. There was. There's been so much drama that has happened with that group of people since season one aired. Like, Janae and Kenny, for example. Like, and then everything that happened after that, I just feel like they would have renewed them if they could have. That's.

[Nick]

If they were willing to talk about the drama, so to speak.

[Justin]

That, too. Like, maybe they were just like, I.

[Nick]

Don'T know, it can't be a great thing that they had to recast the whole thing.

[Mary]

And in season three, are they going to recast again?

[Justin]

Right.

[Natalie]

Because it's like, they'd have to at this point.

[Mary]

I mean, it honestly, like, makes sense. You know, you see what that. That cast from Love island is doing beyond the Villa for the next year, and then they're all influencers and there's nothing else to follow. So, like, you're right.

[Justin]

As if they just added to the cast. Right. So if it was like, the original cast from season one and then they added all these new people, and then you still have Leah pop in once in a while.

[Sierra]

It's not realistic, though. These people don't hang out.

[Mary]

Yeah, no, that's.

[Justin]

You know, this could be interesting with the love triangles and.

[Sierra]

But.

[Justin]

But again, like, they don't have, like, Nick or Alex.

[Mary]

Not gonna be interesting with the love triangles because we have Iris and tj. Two of the most, like, unproblematic, less drama, don't give a fuck. They're just, like, happy being their, like, weird selves with each other. Like, we're not gonna have an Iris TJ fight with Pepe. We're not going to have a Pepe. Jealous. You know, like, we're not going to have that. These aren't the types of people. Like, we watched them on Love island and they didn't give us that, so they wouldn't give it to us now. You know, I think Brian is. He knows that the world loves Amaya. He's not gonna do anything to piss the world off.

[Nick]

There is gonna. There might be these forced scenes of them, like, being forced to talk about it, but I don't feel like it's going to be all that organic or, like, new information.

[Justin]

Well, that's how I felt about season one with, like, the Kayla and Liv drama, and I just was like.

[Sierra]

Like the top three comments on the post about it is we only want to watch Janae, Serena and Leia just cancel the show. I'd rather see a season two beyond the Villa with PPG instead. No Ace, no Shelly, no Nick, no Alandria, no Hutta. Not happening.

[Justin]

Right. Like, where's Ace and Shelley?

[Mary]

I saw photos of Alandria and some guy holding hands. Was it a campaign or.

[Leia]

Yeah, it was a campaign. It was a campaign for sure. Yeah, it was.

[Justin]

I. I did some dig because I.

[Leia]

Was like, yeah, because right after that, she was posting, like, really hot mirror selfies with Nick.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Well, Mary and I had a conversation where Mary was like, by the way, I told you so about Nick and Alandra.

[Leia]

I was just like, it's crazy that I was right all along.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And I was just like, all right, fair, whatever. And then the next day I saw it and I was about to send it to Mary, but then I was like, oh, no, this is Alexander.

[Leia]

Went campaign. Sorry. She's booked and busy in a star. My girl.

[Justin]

She is a fan. Nobody ever said that she wasn't a star.

[Leia]

I'm just saying, day one, when the cast got revealed, I saw Alandria and I was like, that's my girl.

[Justin]

Are we going up to them at BravoCon? Amaya, Jeremiah and Iris.

[Nick]

If we see them, it's like, on.

[Leia]

Sunday you know, it's a bummer. Are the Selling Sunset people. They don't go to BravoCon because it's Netflix.

[Natalie]

I think you and Leia don't know what BravoCon is.

[Justin]

What? How did I catch a strip?

[Leia]

God forbid I try to move this into a new topic.

[Sierra]

I spent hours watching the new season of Selling Sunset. I consider it like, does. Does river watch Bluey?

[Mary]

No.

[Sierra]

Okay, well, like, Bluey's supposed to be.

[Leia]

Like the low cocomelon.

[Sierra]

No, cocomelon's like high stimulating. It's supposed to be like low stimulation and like, not much changes. But like, clearly they learn something every time. That's kind of how I feel about Selling Sunset. It's like the Bluey for adults. Reality television. It's the same story, the same thing over and over again. Very like minimal stakes drama. Except Emma and Chrishell have a falling out based off of Emma's boyfriend and Chrishell not liking him. And it's kind of spun the whole Selling Sunset, Chrishell's the hero edit on its head because everybody's now saying that Chrishell is the villain of the season.

[Nick]

Why is Chrishell the villain?

[Sierra]

A like, because she's not supportive of her friend's relationship and it was very much like, I hate him, so you have to choose him over me based off of the boyfriend. He's 27, he's a billionaire's son and has differing political views than Chrishell. So she's not the biggest fan of his and is like taken to the Internet and now is like no longer friends with Emma over it.

[Mary]

I mean, I feel like I did not see much chatter about this season of Selling Sunset.

[Nick]

I didn't even know it was out.

[Mary]

And like they put it all out plus a reunion. Like, they just dropped everything once all at once.

[Sierra]

I feel like it was like a week break in between. But like, by the time I started it, the reunion was is up. I still haven't finished that.

[Mary]

And do we think it will be renewed for another season? I feel like it's really just died.

[Nick]

Off because Chris Shell. Didn't she like announce her retirement or leaving the show?

[Sierra]

She did post saying that she is not returning for the next season and also selling Orange county and there's a New York one as well that they're kind of taking off in a way that Selling Sunsets kind of plateaued. I wouldn't be shocked that the show's still going to come back. But yeah, Chrishell will not be joining the cast next season.

[Leia]

Do you think Gary would ever come back? To Golden Bachelor after threatening to chop up Teresa and hide her body in a shed.

[Sierra]

Do you think he added that in his memoir that he released?

[Leia]

I think it was cut. I think the editor said, no pun intended. Yikes.

[Nick]

Did you hear about the. Teresa, was it. What's Theresa's last name? Theresa Nest, formerly the wife of your first Golden Bachelor, Gareth. Care Bear.

[Justin]

Care Bear.

[Nick]

Teresa went on our friends podcast, Dear Shandy, our friends Charlene and Andy, who married us. Big interview. Good, good, great. Get for them. But anyways, Teresa came on and she was spilling some tea, fighting back when I think Gary, who wrote a tell all through, like a comment that Teresa is supposed to be worried about this book. Well, it turns out, according to Teresa, he joked about cutting up her body and murdering her.

[Justin]

The exact quote is, you see that? Shut up there? I said, yeah. He said, well, that's where I'm going to hide your body after I kill you and chop you up.

[Nick]

That's.

[Leia]

What the hell.

[Sierra]

Like, that's not like dark humor.

[Mary]

That's.

[Sierra]

That's, that's just dark.

[Justin]

She said. I said, well, if this was his idea of a joke, that was pretty dark humor.

[Nick]

I don't. Who jokes like that?

[Sierra]

What did he say? Like, I wonder what the follow up sentence was. Silence. Like, are you serious?

[Mary]

I feel like it was. That's. I don't know. I feel like, you know when people are like, oh my God, I would kill you if you did that. But that's just a completely different phrase. Like, you see that? Shut up. There, there's your location. I would chop you up crazy.

[Justin]

So detailed.

[Mary]

So detailed. And like, honestly, he kind of gives.

[Justin]

How many times have you thought about this?

[Leia]

There's dark humor and then there's like soft. Launching your potential to have a Ryan Murphy show based on you. You know what I mean?

[Mary]

And Ryan Murphy would love previous Golden Bachelor, AKA slasher.

[Leia]

Ryan Murphy works so hard with that.

[Nick]

Yeah, the, the. The Bachelor franchise. Just can't catch a win.

[Mary]

I saw him on the Tamron hall show and she was like, why should she be worried? Or like, what was her response to like, you saying she should be worried or something? And he was like, well, you know, she tried to call me and I did not answer. And then she texted me asking what it was that she needed to be worried about? And you know what? She can find out just like everybody else. Read the book. I'm like, you are scary.

[Nick]

He's a psycho.

[Leia]

Allegedly, he is a psycho.

[Mary]

If Nick, if Nick and I got a divorce and then he's like, yeah, I'm gonna write a tell all and she should be worried. And I text him being like, hey, quick question. Like, can you give me like a heads up?

[Nick]

Like, read the book, it's 14.95 and.

[Mary]

He like sent me the Amazon link. That's crazy. Crazy.

[Nick]

But yeah, when I has he responded to the I'm going to chop up your body and bury it over there.

[Justin]

I haven't seen any response.

[Sierra]

I don't know how you let that one sit.

[Mary]

How are they not like, dad, chill the fuck out.

[Nick]

It just goes to show you, fame, no matter what age you are, can completely reveal. Honestly, all it really does is kind of reveal who you really are.

[Leia]

It's just like, if you're the kind of person that makes jokes about chopping somebody up, maybe don't go on the golden path.

[Nick]

That means you've thought about it, right?

[Natalie]

You're just like, it's giving premeditation 100%.

[Mary]

See that shed and chop up your.

[Nick]

Body are like all the partners who've killed their spouses, like, they all joked about it once, you know what I'm saying?

[Justin]

I can imagine. Maybe like, okay, they saw a scary looking shed, right? Okay. So then he makes a joke like, that's a good place to hide a body. But to say, you see that shed? No, that's where I would chop you up and hide your body.

[Nick]

I mean, I only said that to Natalie once after she didn't do my laundry. I'm just kidding.

[Sierra]

Perfect.

[Justin]

Yeah. No, that makes sense.

[Leia]

See, my, my thing is like, if you're walking with your sweetie pie and you see a remote shed, you make the joke of like, oh, I bet if we had sex in there, someone might try to kill us. Like, that's dark humor in that situation. Right?

[Sierra]

But you still love your partner kind of thing.

[Leia]

But you still, like, you're still gonna.

[Mary]

Try to have sex in this scenario.

[Justin]

Romantic even.

[Nick]

Did she say, like, when? Like, what was the context in which he said it?

[Mary]

We took a walk around this lake called Pretty Lake, and we were coming to the end of it. And this is really bizarre. He said, you see that shed up there? She began. I said, yeah. He said, well, that's where I'm going to hide your body after I kill you and chop you up. I said, well, if this is his idea of a joke, that was pretty dark humor.

[Sierra]

I just feel like there was animosity in the statement that was underlying. Like, maybe if he could have gotten rid of me somehow, I don't know, he would have Killed me. No, I don't think that was true. It's not true, but it just spoke to an underlying feeling about me. So she said he wasn't laughing after he said it.

[Mary]

That is so scary.

[Sierra]

You know what I mean?

[Justin]

He didn't even say I would. He said I'm going to.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Leia]

The subtext in that statement is rough choice of words.

[Nick]

Yeah. Well, the good news is your current Golden Bachelor, his only flaw is that he doesn't want to date anyone his age.

[Justin]

So the finale of the Golden Bachelor is coming up. It was a two parter. The first one ended on a cliffhanger and the second one is going to be on November 12th.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Natalie]

I lucky my watch. I just want to see if Peg wins.

[Justin]

It'll be two hours and it will include the after the final rose where Mel will sit down with either Peg or Cindy. Whichever one he picks. Do you think will he get engaged? We'll see.

[Mary]

People to be in the live audience for AFR because no one cares.

[Mandy Matney]

I would go.

[Justin]

I would go. I would still go.

[Mary]

You would go?

[Natalie]

I'd go.

[Justin]

Yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah.

[Nick]

See, Gary needs to take a page out of Orlando Bloom's book. If you're going to break up with your partner and be a little petty. Maybe just like, you know, date someone who's going to like troll your ex instead of like joking about chopping up their body and burying them in a shed.

[Mary]

Like, did he put that in his book or is he just leaving out all of the toxic things he did and said?

[Leia]

I'm guessing he's leaving out all the toxic things he did or said if he's writing the book. I feel like he is perfect in his own eyes.

[Nick]

If I went to a Halloween party.

[Justin]

And if I were to ever be caught dead at a Halloween party and.

[Nick]

We broke up and my new girlfriend, what would be an outfit that would really piss you off if she dressed up to try to troll you?

[Mary]

Probably just any outfit in general, you know, just because I don't have the capacity to think of anything. And if she did, I'd be like, oh my God, she's so much better than me. She thought of such a fun costume.

[Nick]

So who's winning in this, in this little, little fight? Is it Katy Perry? Orlando Bloom, Orlando Broom's new girlfriend dressed up as Katy Perry, trolling her for her, you know, her, her outer space visit. Very much leaning in to trolling Katy Perry. But is it giving? Like is, is. Is Katy Perry winning this? Because Orlando Broome.

[Mary]

Why are you calling it Broom.

[Leia]

Orlando Broom.

[Nick]

Because Orlando Bloom can't get over Katy Perry and now she's dating the ex prime minister of Canada. Or. Or is Orlando winning? Because that was really silly what Katy Perry did when she came out.

[Natalie]

Well. And specifically Orlando's now girlfriend dressed up in the spacesuit, kissing the ground.

[Sierra]

Posted it.

[Natalie]

Yeah. So making fun of when Kat Perry landed and kissed the ground.

[Mary]

And who is his new girlfriend?

[Justin]

Rachel Lynn Matthews, actress.

[Nick]

Is she somebody.

[Leia]

She was in Happy Death Day. She was in the duel.

[Natalie]

But I feel like this is a funny situation. But then I remember that they're co parenting a child. So I think from their position, seeing their parents, they have a child together.

[Mary]

Do you think, Daisy.

[Justin]

That like this was just a Joe, like a light hearted, fun little thing and they.

[Mary]

I don't know, it's kind of knows about it. I don't find it.

[Nick]

Do you think Katy Perry has a sense of humor like that?

[Justin]

I hope so.

[Nick]

I mean, the entire Internet came down on her.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Justin makes a good point of like, yeah, if Nick had a new girlfriend and she dressed up as me and like Nick wasn't like, hey, I don't know, this feels like a little maki of my daughter's mom. Maybe like we shouldn't. It definitely is like a little.

[Nick]

It's giving disrespectful to the mother of your child.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah.

[Leia]

It's also funny though.

[Mary]

I mean, it is funny, but Katy.

[Leia]

Perry in Space Kissing the Ground is an awesome Halloween story. Yeah.

[Sierra]

I also think Katy Perry will have like a. Would have a sense of humor about it. And like her entire set is like dancing poop turds and toilets and whatnot.

[Leia]

Famously irreverent.

[Natalie]

I mean, Katy Perry did release the song Band Aids this weekend. Have you seen it? And it's like her first like breakup song post. Well, I guess maybe some of the other ones arguably could have been. But like this is post Orlando and people are saying that it's Katie's comeback because it sounds like her old music. Ooh, it's really good.

[Mary]

It sounds like fireworks.

[Natalie]

Listen to it. It's giving like. Yeah, like early Katy Perry, like when she was like mega viral like roar era.

[Nick]

All right, well, before we get to Mandy Matney, who is the investigative journalist for the Murdoch murders, we have some shows to cover and we're going to do that next. Got some reunion part one of OC Some Wife swap and some Real Housewives of Potomac. And that is up next. Well, all you managers and team leaders out there, if you're not using Grammarly then you are missing out. We know how busy the work day can be and you want to make sure that your team is working on the task to get the job done. Stop wasting time proofreading emails. Spell check your emails, making sure that your emails are written in the right tone. Let's let Grammarly help you do all of that and help your team be far more efficient. Grammarly uses AI to jumpstart your writing so you can get your work done faster and better instantly. Generate well written drafts with AI and get your ideas down on paper. 90% of professionals say Grammarly has saved them time writing and editing their work. Grammarly sets the standard for responsible AI you can trust. AI powered tone features help you communicate confidently. A few clicks can tailor your tone and writing to your audience so you can come across exactly how you intend.

[Mary]

Grammarly is designed to help professionals with real time writing and support on any project, email and more one easy place to get quick help from AI wherever you're writing. 90% of professionals say Grammarly has saved them time writing and editing their work. 93% of professionals report that Grammarly helps them get more work done. Sign up for free and experience how Grammarly can elevate your professional writing from start to finish. Visit Grammarly.com podcast that's Grammarly.com podcast.

[Nick]

Well, the mornings are getting colder. Holiday plans are around the corner and when that all happens, there's no better time to check out Quint's. Whether it's updating your wardrobe or shopping for the people in your life, Quince has it all.

[Mary]

I have started my gift guides for this year and the one thing I'm making sure I'm putting on every single one of my gift guides. It's the one thing that I think of for grandparents, for sisters, for aunts, for cousins, whoever is the Quince Mongolian cashmere sweater Starting at just $50, it's a gift that you honestly can't beat. It's something that they'll keep forever. It's something they'll wear on repeat. It's something that can transition them into every season. You can get it for a man. You can get it for a woman. They also have amazing denim that nails the fit and everyday comfort all at a fraction of what you expected to pay. Everything Quince does is so good. From their bedding to their luggage to their clothes to their towels to literally everything, Quints is knocking it out of the park.

[Nick]

Give and get Timeless holiday staples that last this season. With quints, go to quinn's.com v I a l l for free shipping on your order in. 365 day returns. Now available in Canada, too. That's Quinn's q U-I-N-C-E.com v I a l l free shipping and 365 day returns. That's quints.com v I a l l. All right, it's time to break down some of our shows we're watching over the week, kicking off with Wife swap, Housewife style. What's the official title?

[Natalie]

Why swap? The Real Housewives edition.

[Nick]

There you go. Once again, I'm into the show we watched the. The Emily one. Babe, what. What. What would you miss about me the most?

[Mary]

I mean, I'm sure I'd be switched with, like, a man who does nothing. You know, kind of like Eric, the guy on Emily's episode who just, like, come homes from work, and he just, like, watches the wife do literally everything. And he says.

[Nick]

He.

[Mary]

He literally said, I'm gonna go hide.

[Sierra]

How brutal was that? When it was making a sandwich and he just stood in the kitchen, like, I feel like I would probably.

[Mary]

I would definitely miss your cooking. For sure. You cook every meal for us. You know, like, I wouldn't survive. I would be eating chick fil A. Like, I would be, like. It would be rough.

[Nick]

What wouldn't you miss about me?

[Mary]

Oh, boy. Okay. I didn't, you know, didn't prep for this line of questioning. Off the top of your head, what I wouldn't miss?

[Justin]

This is, like, your chatgpt roast. Nick, are you. Are you prepared for these responses?

[Nick]

I'm always prepared.

[Mary]

Oh, headphones. The second I see Nick in a pair of headphones, my, like, blood pressure rises and I get. And I start to get hot, and I, like, am ready to fight.

[Justin]

Wait, what do you mean, headphones? Like, what. When is he wearing headphones outside of the studio?

[Mary]

Exactly. Why is he wearing headphones around his family? That's a great question.

[Justin]

Is he wearing headphones or earbuds and AirPods?

[Mary]

No, the Wired.

[Nick]

Wired earbuds.

[Justin]

What are you wearing them for? Are you on a phone call?

[Nick]

Usually a podcast, A packer podcast of some kind.

[Justin]

What about when it's not football season?

[Nick]

They're still packers.

[Leia]

So you're not putting your headphones on, listening to your favorite song?

[Nick]

I rarely listen to music.

[Mary]

Listen to music. Do you have a favorite song that.

[Nick]

In your eyes by Peter V. Gabriel is, like, definitely my favorite song. It just brings me back to childhood. What I do love about this show is that, like, it really brings you inside the house. Of these married couples that, you know, have been married for a long time and are dealing with, like, you know, the grind of life and marriage.

[Leia]

You know, I think it humanizes the housewives a lot too early on because you get to see them in their natural, like, family environment and then in this kind of fish out of water situation that isn't just a lot of this intense drama.

[Mary]

You know, What I took away from Emily's episode is that her daughter Annabel is going to watch this back when she is in her 20s, and she's going to be like, I was such a bitch to my mom, and I am so sorry. Like, I have. I have apologized immensely to my mom for the awful things I said to her as a preteen and a teenager. And, like, it's not on national television to watch back whenever I want, you.

[Justin]

Know, like, that's pretty mortifying. That's pretty mortifying. I'm so glad that I was not on camera when I was a teenager.

[Leia]

Oh, my God.

[Mary]

And again, if my mom's listening, I am so sorry.

[Nick]

Another thing with the Emily episode, I know, I know the husband was kind of, like, not helpful at all. But it was also on the flip side, I thought it was wild that his wife would never, like, say hi to him, greet him.

[Mary]

No, when they. When she left to go to Orange county and she kissed all the kids and just, like, turned around, I was like, well, that y' all are.

[Nick]

Again, I. You know, you should be fathers out there. Husbands, you need to be present. You need to, like, you know your wife out. But I will say for the ladies out there, you know how, like, a lot of guys, like, the likable ones, you're like, oh, he's giving golden retriever energy. Like, really, all men on some level, are no more complicated than dogs. And they all, on some level, have a little bit of golden retriever, even the introverted ones in them. And honestly, golden doodle, in Nick's case, golden doodle. But, like, honestly, a pat on the back or an atta boy or, like, a little appreciation goes a long way with the boys. I'm just saying. And, like, this. This family. This family dad dynamic where, like, he wasn't helpful at all, but she was basically, like, ignored. His existence is, like, such a, like, common theme in marriages and so, like, easily fixed. And I can. I see. But, like, you know, if you're a guy, it's just like, you don't. If you're not. If you're not acknowledged or, like, appreciated. And I. And I think A lot of, in a lot of couples, like both parties feel like they have their version of feeling underappreciated. But it was fascinating to see that dynamic where she just like, it's like she just stopped acknowledging him, like he didn't exist. It was crazy.

[Sierra]

That's what I saw too, where it was kind of like when each person feels like they're doing the most in the relationship and they're not being acknowledged by the other. It's kind of crazy how quickly a wall builds up between two people because it's almost competing for like, I work harder and I'm not acknowledged for that. Where it's like, he's keeping a roof over the head. She's keeping your kids alive, happy and fed. So it's like two people need to like take a step back and acknowledge the fact that it's like one thing can't exist without the other.

[Mary]

No, the fact that she sat there and told Shane, like, yeah, he doesn't think like me being a stay at home mom is like a job or does any benefits or like does anything. And thank God Shane is like, it is more important than whatever he does. You know, it's like. Or just, just as important. Whatever. It's like she is taking care of all three of these kids. This woman clearly like never leaves this house. She's like, yeah, my me time is going to the barn and taking care of these animals and like wipes his ass, does everything for this man. And like I think, yeah, if it's both reciprocated where if he were to come home and be like, hey, thanks so much for like everything you did for the kids today. And if she was like, you know what, thank you so much for going to work and working hard for us. Like, it would be such a happier place.

[Nick]

Oh my God, it's crazy. Just those little things in a relationship can go such a long way because it, and that's the thing. It's just like your day to day, like you know, going to work, you know, eventually you're just like, well, you go to work or like, oh, well, you take care of the kids, you just take it for granted. You just like, it's, it's one of those things that you just, you just get so used to it and you stop thinking your partner, thanking your partner for the day to day grind that is like their responsibility or their part in like what you're creating. And just like a, hey, thanks, you know, I really appreciate you today. It's just like, it's crazy how how far that will go in relationships and how. How quickly that is lost. I mean, that's one thing I've really liked, like, enjoyed about this. This show is that peels back some of those layers and some of these, like, very relatable relationships.

[Justin]

Yeah, well, because then resentment starts to creep in, and that's like, a very real thing. If you're not communicating or talking about, like, well, what is it that you're doing every day? Like, how was your day? What did you do? Like, then you don't think about, like, how hard the other person's working, and if you're not thanking each other or acknowledging it, then, like, you just start resenting each other, and it just gets worse and worse and worse and worse until, like, you just stop talking altogether.

[Sierra]

And we all, like, need little things, you know? Like, that's what. When you start off in a relationship, it just, like, comes naturally. And then slowly, when you're, like, with somebody for a long period of time, you can forget things where you see that she. The way her face lit up when Shane suggested that we're going out to dinner, and she was like, I haven't gone out to dinner, and I don't know how long. Or Emily's suggesting doing the fly fishing, where it's just, like, sometimes you also have to take a step back and be like, what does my partner need? And maybe even if it's something I would rather die than do, do it one time.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Show up for each other. I thought that was really cool. Little.

[Justin]

Yeah. And it is hard. I mean, if you reflect on yourself in these situations, it's like. It's hard. Like, yesterday, Danny filmed a music video, and I was with Louis all day. And then, like, he walked in the door, and I didn't even ask him how his video went. Like, and I. And I realized that, like, an hour later, and I was like, oh, my God. Like, we didn't even, you know, like, all. He walked in, I'm like, okay, change his diaper. Like, dude, you know, we just went on with life, and I didn't even ask him how his day was at all.

[Leia]

Like, well, it's like. Like, I think it's. It's. What's interesting about Wife Swap is it shows you that it's like, you don't really need to be doing, like, a big, like, say anything. Like, John Cusack holding a boombox over his head, playing in your eyes, like, to, like, connect with your partner. You can just, like, talk to them.

[Justin]

It's a great song. I love that song.

[Leia]

Isn't it such a good song?

[Nick]

Good callback.

[Leia]

Do you guys like that song?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Does it bring you back?

[Nick]

It does bring me back, even.

[Mary]

Well, you know what else can bring you back is the rapid recap. And we got one for the Real Housewives of Orange county reunion, part one. Shannon is feeling Zen, and therefore we propose a drinking game. Drink every time. Shannon is not Zen. Katie wants to make up for lost time. Tamara promises she won't quit. Andy is also like, thought you would have been nicer this season considering you were in therapy. Tamara is like, I don't understand what you could possibly mean, followed by montage of her being the demon we know and love. Heather and Tamara are historical friends, which means four score and seven years ago, they did drugs together or something. Probably. I don't know. Emily thinks Katie uses podcasters to fight her battles for her, and we're willing to be on the front lines. Allegedly, Gina is not in the business of triggering trauma, but she is in the business of overusing therapy buzzwords. Meanwhile, Gretchen is getting ready in the makeup room looking like Martha May, who via in a regional production of Wicked. Then the women open up about their individual personal lives. Blah, blah, blah. Finally, Gretcher's enters. Let's fucking go. Slade is apparently on the Liberace Foundation. Ally. Also, his penis is healing. Greater sign three that makes a heart. Her and Tamra start fighting about stuff from 10 years ago. Tamara claims she's coming home. She's coming from a place of kindness to be determined if the kindness is in the room with us. And that's about it. Overall, what do we think about Andy's longer hair? He's kind of eating. No, we literally said that.

[Nick]

Yeah. Now he's like, his hair looks great. And I was like, I was just thinking his hair looks great too.

[Mary]

His hair looks so good.

[Nick]

We're synced Andy. Andy looked really good this episode. Performance and just aesthetic.

[Mary]

Why wasn't Gretchen out the whole time?

[Leia]

Friend of that's crazy that she was a friend of. She was filming at home with Slade.

[Nick]

She's a friend of. She's not. She's not holding a pea. An orange. Oh, that's her.

[Mary]

Friend of they haven't redone that orange photo since season three.

[Nick]

It feels like Slade being on the Liberace Foundation.

[Mary]

I feel like it's made up.

[Sierra]

The Internet Interneted and they found that he is a volunteer on the board, so he's an unpaid member, so it's not a job.

[Leia]

Wait, so he. Never mind.

[Nick]

Even still, how did he. How is this board?

[Mary]

She. She explained it. His. Their friend is on the board and.

[Sierra]

He, I guess, asked him to join.

[Leia]

How could Gretchen like those posts if Slade is on the limb?

[Nick]

The Slade's like a real life Kramer, you know, it's just like on Seinfeld, where he'd like, they. They never really have a job. They kind of float, you know, they always seem to land on their feet somehow. They have. They don't have a care in the world. I just don't know. I'm fascinated by these humans.

[Leia]

Yeah. I gotta be honest. Kind of underwhelmed by the Katy stuff they talked about in part one. I was just like, where's the excitement?

[Nick]

Well, all of it was really set up for what, like, I think is going to be an explosive part three.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah, I know.

[Leia]

I'm just like.

[Mary]

But the.

[Justin]

The.

[Sierra]

The venom that Tamara has every time Shannon opens her mouth.

[Leia]

She was like.

[Justin]

It was wild.

[Nick]

I was 100% team Shannon in this episode. It merely made me love her. Like, Shannon, an imperfect person as we all are, but she's so charming and so, like, just lovable. And like, what Shannon is not, is. She's not that calculated, you know, and when.

[Leia]

No, she is not.

[Nick]

So this idea that, like, Tamara was throwing her way, that, like, Shannon, you.

[Mary]

Know, tried to get her off the show.

[Nick]

Like, I 100% believe Shannon also watching.

[Mary]

It in real time. Andy being like, why do you pull stories from the past to try to hurt people? Just like, when have I done that? When have I done that? Well, you literally were recording Vicki and it was about her. But what like. And he's like, you just dropped two right now. It's like, it was two years ago. And he's like, that is the point.

[Nick]

No, she literally insinuated that Vicky Gunlson was part of a potential domestic situation.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Mary]

And it's like, so damaging that like. Like Tamra. The hypocrisy that Tamara can just. And she just doesn't see it. It's crazy.

[Nick]

Do we really think she doesn't see it?

[Mary]

I don't think when. When Andy said that and she responded with the way that she did. I don't think she in any way thought she was proving his point.

[Leia]

It kind of reminds me of, like, you know, sometimes when you. I don't know if this is. This has happened to me of like, when you're kind of in, like, spiral mode and you don't realize how much you're talking about something until your friends, like, like, shape you and your shoulders and they're like, shut up about it.

[Justin]

Yes. All the time.

[Sierra]

She literally doesn't think that she says anything wrong about people. And then she goes on like a two minute tirade about, like, how they're up, and then it's like, when did I do that?

[Mary]

Yeah, sorry I was mad.

[Sierra]

Yeah, that. Sorry I was mad. I don't. I don't. I'm not responsible for what I said when I was angry at you and throwing all of your secrets out to the public.

[Leia]

And that only works when it's coming from Angie Katzenva.

[Nick]

Do you literally. Babe, like, who. Because we've hung out with Tamra. Well, you've hung out with Tamra. We had Tamra on the show. We spent some time with Shannon. When I watched this show, it's like, I don't feel particularly safe if potentially hanging around Tamra. But I really enjoyed Tamra's company in real life.

[Mary]

That's what's confusing about it is that, like, yeah, she. She is a lovely human being in person. And maybe at the end of the day, No, I was about to say, maybe that's all that matters. But like, no, because she gets on this show and she. She spews people's rumors and stories and past and, like, in a dangerous way and in a reckless way. And like, you know, she. You know, she makes great television. I think she, you know, is entertaining to watch. But when you really break it down, like, she is not a good friend, I would not trust her with anything. And like, yeah, I also don't get.

[Nick]

Tamara, like, getting so defensive when all the women were like, tamara's the one I would least trust. It's like, well, well, there's. They have their reasons. And, like, Tamara's mad at them for justifiable reasons.

[Mary]

Well, she actually handled that quite well when Heather was like, this is why. And she was like, okay, I'll work on that.

[Nick]

Like, I, you know, well, there, she handled it well.

[Leia]

It's like, she'll do it with Heather. Yeah, kind of. And then no one else.

[Nick]

Yeah. But she's like, to Emily, she's like, how dare you? How could you do this? Or, like, how could you think this way? It's just like, I think this way because you have a history and a pattern of doing it. Like, the fact that Tamara is expecting these women to apologize for feeling a certain way about Tamara's behavior is crazy. It's like if your partner lies to you and then you say, well, listen, I. I think you're a liar. And then that person's like, deeply offended that you think they're a liar after catching them in a lie.

[Leia]

Well, it's also, like, it was so funny to watch Andy be, like, crazy that you were in therapy. Do you think you changed? And Tamara being like, you think I haven't? And Andy kind of being like, no. Like, it's just, again, everyone has their own mental health journey. Like, not the Tamara off the show seems like a different person than Tamara on the show, but Tamara on the show. Girly pop.

[Sierra]

Well, what's wild, too, is I was on Tick Tock over the weekend, and I came across Vicki Gunvalson's video that she posted. Meeting up with Tamra to do a sponsored ad together. First time that they've seen each other in years. And it was just like, her walking in being like, hey, like, cutie butt or something like that. And then they just, like, acted like nothing happened where they played back in the reunion. Tamara being like, that woman will never.

[Mary]

Be in my life again.

[Sierra]

But the Internet's watching Tamara's behavior, and Tamara is hanging out with Vicki Gumbelson again. She's hanging out with Joe Slade's ex, who's on season one of O.C. katie Janela. And there's one more that I can't remember off the top of my head, but it's like they're saying that, like, Tamara's trying to get the old troops back for the next season.

[Leia]

Well, it's also with the Joe thing. Like, even, Like, I'm not one to defend Gretchen, but when Gretchen was like, yeah, you brought Joe out to piss me off, and Tamara was like, no, I didn't. It's like that of all things, just be like, yeah, I did.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

To it. Because we haven't seen Joe for years. Two decades.

[Mandy Matney]

Exactly.

[Sierra]

All I know is that one thing for a fact, that if somebody tells you that your outfit resembles JonBenet Ramsey, it is not a compliment.

[Mary]

Not a compliment. Yeah.

[Leia]

Nope.

[Sierra]

That was a wild thing to repeat yet again.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Mary]

No. And Gretchen being like, yeah, you said that about my other outfit. It's like, yeah, I've heard it before. Come up with a new one.

[Leia]

And then was it Emily who said, when I said you looked like you were dipped in formaldehyde, like that was a compliment.

[Sierra]

The backtracking, I will say, for these Orange County Housewives is wild. They say it with so much formaldehyde.

[Natalie]

Is a compliment, though. I do do see that one. I want to look like I was dipped in formaldehyde.

[Nick]

Someone who has a unique way of saying things sometimes. And, and as someone who can be direct, I've had to learn that if you have to explain your compliment, it's not a compliment.

[Leia]

I did one time tell a girl I had a crush on she was giving Desperate Housewives and then I had to explain that that was a compliment when I was really drunk.

[Nick]

You might mean it as a compliment, but it's still not. And just to be like, like. But no, like, let me explain it to you. And here's why you're supposed to be flattered. It's like just.

[Mary]

Well, speaking of giving out compliments that aren't landed as compliments, we have the Real Housewives of Potomac and here is your rapid recap if you missed the most recent episode. Giselle spills all the monogram shots she had made for the ladies. Stacy says nothing, of course, but still she drinks. Ashley Darby took one out of Stacy's book and texted a selfie to her man's Giselle also didn't monogram Stacy's towel for the yacht. Kind of getting old, girly. If you didn't care about her, you wouldn't be so annoying about it. Wendy thinks K is fake as fuck. Giselle and K get over some stuff maybe. Then the girls booty bump in the gorgeous ocean. Thus is the life of women. Stacy can't go to Jazzy's wedding because her weed brand is launching. Giselle says it's because she's a fake friend. Then TS's jazzy filters her photos. Jazzy goes nuclear. Wendy just wants someone to pass the prosciutto after dinner while cameras are down, there was apparently a really intense conversation with angel and Jazzy where the descriptors snaggletooth stringy haired are used about someone question mark. Question mark. Anyway, let's put a pin in that because it's slut night for Jazzy's bachelorette. Someone call Rachel Maddow and the stripper with braces. Or maybe just Ashley. Darby didn't realize she was a bicon. Is anyone else a little turned on or just Mary? Anyway, let's move on that mental pick for sure. Back to the off camera convo between Jazzy and Angel. Apparently another wag talked to shit on angel to Jazzy and said some intense things about her. Did angel mentioned she was a wag reminder in case anyone forgot. But they're cool they talked it through or not. Angel might be mad at Jazzy for bringing it up. Overall, is Angel's vibe super confusing to anyone else? Discuss yeah, yeah again, she's a Brittany Bateman what about me? It's, like, always, like, oh, no, we're cool. We're cool. And then, like, wait, I'm still mad. Yeah.

[Sierra]

If I'm going to storm out, especially to call my husband, like, I'm going to my room. I'm not, like, waiting for the 10 steps out for anybody that wants to chase. So I could tell you, I'm on the phone with my husband. I don't want to talk right now. Then go to your room.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Which is like, don't say that you're cool. And then be like, yeah. When I was, like, laughing and having fun, the reason I was being cool was because I was really mad. Like, it just doesn't make any sense.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Mary]

And she. That's. This is the second time she's done it. The last time was Giselle and, like, the catfish. And then they hug, and it was like a whole big cute thing. And then the next morning, she's like, I slept on it and I'm still pissed. It's like, you can hold a grudge, girl. Like, you gotta just let it go.

[Sierra]

I'm like, also, we're, like, having a fun night. So I'm like, you can't put this aside for the next taping day tomorrow after we get back. It's like every night she's ruining with her vibe.

[Leia]

Well, it's also like, Jazzy did come to her off while cameras were down to tell her about this. It's not even like, she, like, brought it up to embarrass her in front of the group. They had, like, a separate conversation about it. It just ended up being teased.

[Sierra]

And that's what everybody was, like, giving Jazzy credit for.

[Leia]

Which I also thought, which angel gave Jazzy credit?

[Mary]

I mean, after the performance at dinner against Tia, it very much felt like Jazzy wanted, if not camera time, then definitely wanted to be a main housewife. I mean, her, like, freaking out over Tia being like, oh, yeah, Mr. Sunshine is, like, fond of you.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Question for you ladies, teen days before my wedding.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah.

[Nick]

If, like, Sierra, Leah, question. If one of your lady friends told you that, like, a waiter was checking you out, would you feel like that person was disrespecting Connor or Danny?

[Justin]

No. No. Like, I don't be like, oh, cool.

[Nick]

Right?

[Sierra]

For me.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Really?

[Nick]

She made it seem like if someone checks you out that you're having an affair.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And that was flattered by, like, slaying your out, you know, your outfit just, like, crushing life and looking good.

[Mary]

And like, if she felt disrespected the only person she should have just felt disrespected by was Mr. Sunshine himself, who's like, you're my favorite. Stand by me in this photo. Like, then she could have been like, okay, that's enough. Like, I'm getting married in 14 days. Get the fuck out of here. But she's like, entertaining it. She's having fun. She's like, you know, whatever. It's Mr. Sunshine. As Kay said, like, he's got two teeth and two dreads. Like, we're not. He's not competition. We're not worried about him. It's not that big of a deal.

[Leia]

It's also slut night.

[Mary]

It was slut night.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Leia]

What's a. What's Mr. Sunshine supposed to do when it's slut night?

[Nick]

What outfit would you like to see men argue in that would make it even sillier because like, when they're all wearing lingerie, screaming at each other, it's like a. It really throws you off.

[Justin]

Vanderpump rules.

[Leia]

I was gonna say I want to.

[Justin]

Schwartz.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Ice queen Drag.

[Mary]

No, in the drag.

[Sierra]

When Tom Schwartz on the toilet and Tom Sandoval's got his wig off and his drawn on eyebrows on his forehead kicking open the door.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Either that like Full 21 Jump street like Sunse Out, Guns Out 2013 outfits.

[Sierra]

Honestly, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Did a good job too, with the Chippendales fight. Like, be more ridiculous.

[Mary]

Honestly, anything.

[Justin]

Watching men argue is funny.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Any costume. Halloween costume.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

They should make men in reality TV argue with a T shirt and underwear and socks on.

[Natalie]

Why?

[Nick]

Because they look silly or like bathrobes.

[Justin]

Nick, I actually have a question for you. So somebody asked me, they said, you know, Nick hates when men wear shorts. Well, what are men supposed to wear in the summer when it's hot?

[Leia]

Pants.

[Justin]

Just be hot in pants.

[Natalie]

Linen pants.

[Nick]

Well, again, there's a time and a place, but if you're like, going out in public to a nice event or like dinner at a restaurant, like it. It should. There must. There should be a heat advisory if you're wearing shorts like an airplane or like a restaurant. It's unnecessary.

[Leia]

I think there's a curb episode about that, actually, where Larry David sits next to a man in shorts on an airplane.

[Natalie]

Yeah, shorts and an airplane's unhinged.

[Nick]

I am Larry David.

[Leia]

Uh huh.

[Mary]

Well, continuing with shows we are recapping, we have Mandy Matney, the investigative reporter joining us next to talk about the Murdaugh death in the family. Let's get to Mandy Fall Into a New Language as the seasons change, it's the perfect time to learn something new. Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for a new challenge before the year ends, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into a real language. Progress Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language anytime, anywhere.

[Nick]

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[Mary]

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[Nick]

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[Mary]

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[Nick]

Mandy Many, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

[Mandy Matney]

Hey guys.

[Sierra]

I'm good.

[Mandy Matney]

How are you doing?

[Nick]

Very well. Very excited for you to join us. We have been following this case for, well, a long time. I don't know when. When did the murders happen?

[Mandy Matney]

2021.

[Nick]

2021? Well, n is a bit of a true crime junkie. She loves to file these cases in the background and bringing me up to speed. So we've definitely been following it. We follow the trial and then obviously with the new show on Hulu out, we are all caught up. We're watching it. I have some questions to you about that, about the show itself. But you have been following this case from the beginning. So much so that your character is being you are you, you are in the show as, as you an investigative journalist covering the show. So like, I guess, like what? Let's start there. This must be just a whole very surreal experience for you leading up to being portrayed on a TV show about this crime.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah, it's insane. I like to say my life has been like a movie since 2019 since I first found out about this and it's just gotten weirder ever since. And then to have Brittany Snow playing me, like of all people, what a compliment. I am just in awe. Can't believe it. It's just been surreal and awesome.

[Nick]

So bring us back to the beginning. When did you personally become really invested in this whole family? That story?

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Mandy Matney]

So in 2019, I was just a pesky local news reporter at a news at a small newspaper in Hilton Head, South Carolina. And there was something that everybody knows as the boat crash that happened under my watch on a Saturday night. I remember waking up one morning on a Sunday and hearing all of these things about a 19 year old girl missing. And the driver of the boat was a drunken teenager from a family full of powerful lawyers. And. And I was really, really into true crime. Not gonna lie before that. And I was always kind of like, I always wanted to have a podcast about something. And then when that happened and I started hearing all these rumors about the Murdaughs and how much power that they had and people on basically from day one, people were like, if you guys don't cover this, they will cover it up. So me and my reporting partner Liz just dug in and could not see.

[Mary]

Did they ever threaten you? You know, being the one person who was like outing their secrets.

[Mandy Matney]

The family never threatened me personally, but people that knew them did. And more, less than threats. It was a lot of just like people from the very beginning when I first started writing about Paul Murdoch and his father and all the power and money that they had. And it took a really long time for Paul to get charged in the boat crash too. So I was just cranking out all these stories. During that time, I started getting just a lot of weird emails from people from Hampton, which is the area that the Murdochs are from, saying, nobody talks about this family like this. Nobody reports on this family the way that you are. Be careful, like watch your back. And for years I just got a lot of be careful, watch your back. These people are dangerous, but not necessarily like direct threats from them saying, we'll kill you.

[Mary]

And I guess why didn't that stop you? Were you just headstrong?

[Mandy Matney]

So I'm not from the south and I think that that's helped me a lot. Like I am from Kansas and my best friend and reporting partner Liz, who's with me at the packet, she's from Boston. So we both just kind of had an outsider's perspective on this whole thing. And we're kind of just like, like, why? Like why don't you guys stand up for to this system? And people kept telling us over and over like, nothing ever changes here. And we were just like, well, why can't it? I think it should. This is really bad. What's going on here? And I think that. And then the combination of just like, I met a lot of people in Hampton and got close with them, and they were just like, if you don't stop this, nobody else will. If you don't stop this family, nobody will. And all of that just kind of of motivated me.

[Nick]

What's so fascinating about your involvement in this story is that you were investigating this family before the crime that really, like, went international, right? Like, you were investing already a tragedy with the. With the death of this young girl in this boating accident and looking into it then, only to have Alec allegedly murder his wife and son. And I. That must have been like a crazy. I don't know when you found out that those murders happened, but when you got the call that Alec was being investigated, or I, you know, bring us back into that night when you got the call and you found out these murders happened. What. What was that like for you? And did you immediately suspect Alec?

[Mandy Matney]

So, okay, so going back to 2019, and I just kind of became obsessed with this case in the Murdoch family. I was dating my now husband at the time, and I'll never forget, one day I come home and he has, you know, those, like, murder board, I call them murder boards. But, like, just a bit, he surprised me with a big board that I could put pens and, like, stick things on and, like, map out the whole Murdoch family and all of that. So, like, this is what I was doing in my spare time all the time. And then my husband got involved in it because he was like, this is all you ever want to talk about. I'm interested in it, too. So, yeah, it was just a lot of time spending investigating this family. And again, a lot of emails saying, be careful. These people are dangerous. So those things combined, I imagined, like, a million different scenarios of this going down in my head. I always knew that something bad, something more bad was going to happen with this story. Like, you know, like, you just see all of these people behaving so recklessly and no accountability. And I just always kind of knew that something else was going to happen. But I always thought, like, I mean, because of all the emails I got, like, I thought I would be the dead one. I thought lots of other people besides Paul and Maggie would be the dead ones. And waking up on June 8, 2021, weirdly enough, my now husband and I were just celebrating our engagement in Puerto Rico, and I woke up to a hundred text messages saying, Maggie and Paul were murdered at Moselle last night. Get home now. And just Couldn't again, had thought of a million scenarios of that happening, but immediately, immediately knew that it had to be somebody within the family because I knew how terrified the vast majority of people were of this family. And I was like, nobody's going to Moselle to kill the Murdaughs on their property with their guns. That's not happening. And Alex was always super sketchy, so he was definitely a number one suspect.

[Nick]

Law enforcement, were they immediately aware of your involvement and did they go to you at any point while they were investigating Alex for the murders?

[Mandy Matney]

Oh, yeah, I can't really say specifically. I still can't reveal my sources and obviously, but. But, yeah, very early on, law enforcement got in contact with me right after the murders, and it really became an exchange of information for a long time. We would get tips, and I would tell law enforcement before I would report on a lot of things because, like, I wanted these murders to be solved.

[Leia]

Like.

[Mandy Matney]

Like, I. Like when this happened, I was like, this is really scary, and somebody's out there like, let's. Let's get this done. I wanted to work with police. I didn't. My reporting always, like, took back. Took the backseat. You know, I wanted everything to be solved, and I wanted the investigation to be clean and all of those things. So, yeah, I worked a lot with law enforcement, and a lot of times they would tell me things that I could not report on for a really long time, and so that was very difficult. But I really appreciated the fact that they were always open to, you know, basically collaborating on tips and things and figuring out what was going on.

[Mary]

In your opinion, knowing this family for so long, what's your opinion on his motive?

[Mandy Matney]

I just think he is a man who never faced accountability in his entire life, and he never. He was always used to his father. He was the solicitor for years and years, just getting him out of anything that he got into his entire Life. And in June 2021, his father was dying, so his fixer. His fixer was dying, and his problems just kept escalating. The problems from Paul Murdoch and the boat. Paul, his son and the boat crash and the lawsuit and problems with the millions of dollars that he was stealing and could not give back and could never. Could not keep up any. Um, And I just think. I also think that, like, murder is never something that anybody really understands. I mean, do you. Do you guys. I. I think that, like, the motive is basically, he was trying. He had too many problems and was looking around and he thought he could get sympathy from the. And it's Horrible. The murder of his wife and son.

[Natalie]

But.

[Mandy Matney]

And a lot of people say that's crazy, but like, most murder motives are crazy. Does it make sense to you guys?

[Mary]

I mean, it definitely doesn't make sense, obviously, because it's like husband and father. But like, I 100% believe he did it. You know, it was. I remember like watching the trial live.

[Justin]

Were you.

[Mary]

Did you watch it live or did you. Were you there in court?

[Mandy Matney]

I actually watched it live. I could. I was like one of the journalists selected to be able to go, but I could watch better from. I've been to a million court hearings in my career and I can never hear what's going on. I have adhd, so I have to like really focus on what's happening in front of me. So it was just me and my laptop and my husband watching the trial. We had like a trailer outside of the trial and I would go there sometimes and watch it and like, and talk to the people who were being at least like some, like Mark Tinsley would be questioned on the stand and then he would come to our trailer to talk afterwards. Things like that.

[Mary]

I thought it was interesting and I'd love your opinion on. During the trial, they made it very clear that Alex use of calling his son Paw Paw was something that like, wasn't normal. That like he just started doing that for the trial. That that was never really what they called him. No one had heard him refer to Paul as that. But then in the series, it kind of showed a different version. What, like, what was your opinion of watching the show back and then having watched the trial?

[Mandy Matney]

I mean, crazy. Like, I also heard from sources that he never called him pawpaw. But it also makes Alex look like more ridiculous on the show when he calls him Pawpaw. Cause he's like a grown kid. Like it's a 21 year old he's talking to, not like a baby. And the way that he says pawpaw, it just makes him look some more ridiculous. So I, I liked that they added that. Like, I thought it gave it more. I don't know, it built Alec's character more Overall.

[Nick]

Do you feel like this series is accurately portraying the events of this family and its crimes?

[Mandy Matney]

Oh, absolutely. So I am an executive producer, so like, I can't. I am obviously biased. I think it's a great show, definitely a great show. Cause I was a part of it. But I absolutely believe that it was. It's accurate. I mean, a lot of the decisions that the creators like, for instance, the housekeeper Gloria satterfield's death is changed in the timeline of the show. When I was on set and when I was just kind of getting bits and pieces of what they were doing with the show, I was like, why would they change Gloria's death? That's like, a big event. That's a big deal. This doesn't make any sense. I'm a journalist. I'm used to sticking to the facts. I was kind of. But I was like, oh, I trust the people who I'm working, so I'm just gonna take a step back. And then I watched the show, and I completely understood why those decisions were made. You gotta see more of Gloria's character and who she was as a person. And that was extremely important. And so every decision that wasn't, like, necessarily true to character, it made sense for the show.

[Nick]

Can you remind our audience, like, the role Gloria played and the speculation around her death? Because if I remember correctly, wasn't there speculation that maybe even Alec or someone in the was like, even. That was kind of under kind of dark pretenses? And there was speculation around insurance and things like that. Because it was portrayed that he obviously, like, stole the money from her children after he sued. Like, he had them sue him or something to that effect.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah. Okay, this is a complicated story. So we're gonna go back to 2019, when I'm first investigating the Murdoch family. And I hear not only investigating Mallory's death, but all these people in Hampton are. Did you hear about the maid, too? You have to investigate the maid. And the rumor was that either Paul Murdoch or Alex Murdock, it was kind of interchangeable of who you're talking to, pushed her down the stairs. And when I first heard that, I was like, no way. That sounds just insane. Whatever. Grain of salt. And then I was looking through records one day, and I see. And I was just. At the time, like I said, I was obsessive. So just trying to find anything in public records to lead me to more information about this family. And up pops a death settlement for a woman named Gloria Satterfield. And Alex Murdoch's insurance company paid her 500,000, paid her family $500,000 according to this death settlement. And she died a year before the boat crash in 2018. And then I go online and I figure out that she was the maid. And I'm like, oh, whoa. I think this is the maid that they're talking about. This is pretty crazy. And then I take another look at the settlement document, and I just see all of this weird stuff happening. Alex Best friend Corey Fleming is representing the housekeeper's family. And he sued Alex Murdoch's insurance company. And it wasn't like most other lawsuits that I've seen where it's like, like they, they basically said one sentence, she died at Alex Murdoch's house. And then the insurance company was like, okay, cool, we'll give you $500,000 for that. So that was weird. And then the other main thing that I saw, they had a personal representative over the Satterfield family, so to receive the money. And I was like, huh. So it looks like Gloria's family isn't getting the money. Somebody else is. And he's from a bank. So I was investigating that for like two years, and it all didn't come out until after the murders with my. He's now my cup of justice podcast co host, Eric Bland. He was, he's is still an attorney and was an attorney back then. He found that not only did Alex steal that $500,000 from the Satterfield family, who needed it very much, but he, he stole $3.2 million in total. The. The entire settlement was $3.2 million. So that kind of led to everybody being like, oh, Alex was stealing from clients. And then it turned into, I think he stole a total of 10 to 15 million dollars from clients. But the Satterfield family, the craziest part about it is that I really believe, and I, I've met Tony and Brian gloriously sons before, and I totally believe that, like, if he would have just given them $10,000 or $5,000, that would have been life changing for them, but he wouldn't give a dollar to them. And that was really the reason why he got exposed for all of his crimes. It's crazy.

[Mary]

Has that family received anything since he's been found guilty?

[Mandy Matney]

Not from him. So Eric Bland, the Satterfield family attorney, has actually given them, recovered $10 million for them from various people who were involved in the settlement, like the insurance companies, the banks, et cetera. That should have stopped it. There were lots of ways to stop this settlement from happening and to stop it from going directly into Alex's pockets. But the funny part of that is that, like Alex himself never had to give a dime to them. And I kind of hate that.

[Nick]

That's crazy. Another, I guess, story that's portrayed in the series is the speculation that Buster was involved in the son and the death of a young man. That it was unclear that he, he knew, or maybe people thought he knew this young man who died. It was like a Hit and run, right? And he had like a secret friend. He called him the Prince. The series all but kind of of shows the speculation, but ultimately makes you believe that Buster was not involved in this young man's death. What do you believe happened? And do you feel like that part was accurately portrayed?

[Mandy Matney]

Okay, so Stephen Smith, that's another one. We'll go back to 2019 and like the first week I'm investigating the Murdoch family, I'm looking on Facebook and this is in the. In the show too. And that's a. That really happened. While I'm looking on Facebook about all these things about the Murdoch family, I keep seeing the. This hashtag for justice for Stephen and Mallory. Stephen and Mallory. Stephen and Mallory. And I'm like, who's Stephen? What is going on? There's a maid. There's Steven there. What is going on with this family? And so I start digging in, and I got a case file a few months later. And that was before I was like, there was I knew of any transcription services. So I had to like, listen to every single one of the interviews in the case file and actually type it out. And that took forever. But I typed everything out, timelined it, mapped out the entire investigation, and the Murdoch name came up in this case 40 times over. 40 times in the investigation. Something crazy like that. And. But what happened? Stephen Smith was like gay nursing student in Hampton, South Carolina, at 19. He did go to school with Buster. I think they were on a T ball team together growing up. They kind of knew each other, but, like, didn't really hang out with the same friends. He was found dead in the middle of the road in the small town of Hampton county in July of 2015. And it was just really weird. I start looking into this death and I'm like, like there's like three, maybe four stories in total about this kid's death. And they labeled it a hit and run. And then you look at the case file, in the case file, the entire everyone who's investigating it from the highway patrol is like, I don't see a single sign that this is a hit and run. This looks like a murder to me. I don't understand why we're investigating it. But the way weirdest part of it was like, the Murdoch name just kept coming up in different ways. And people, several friends of friends of friends of Buster said, I heard that Buster and Steven were in a relationship and they had something to do with it. I think ultimately the worst part of this entire story is that we do not know what happened to Stephen Smith, and I've gotten really close with his mother, Sandy. That is so true. The woman, Rhoda who plays her is fantastic, and she, like, embodies Sandy's essence and how great of a woman she is. She still doesn't know what happened to her son. And I feel horrible that she has been swept up in all of this and then in 2021, and I know that this is a lot. So please pause me. In 2021, right after the Murdoch murders, the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, the agency investigating the double homicide, came out with a. That they were reopening Steven's case due to something that they found during the Murdoch murders investigation. And so that connected these two cases. But still to this day, we do not know what happened. And it just drives me. It's something that just eats at me. I just. And I. I'm really glad that the creators went with telling Stephen's story as a part of this show in the way that they did, and hopefully it will lead to answers. Lots of people, and I'm one of them. I believe that there are a group of. Now they're young men in Hampton county who know exactly what happened to Stephen, and they just won't say. And I just hope something. I hope something breaks.

[Nick]

Do you have an opinion on what you think happened? I know as an investigative journalist, I'm sure you try to stick to the facts, but you've been so obviously involved in this case, it must be hard not to speculate or have guesses of your own.

[Mandy Matney]

Oh, absolutely. And like, I'm a big. I don't believe that journalists can be unbiased. I believe all of us have opinions. Some of us are better at hiding it than others. So I try and my podcast to be very transparent about where I'm at with things and why I believe them. And I mean, honestly, I think that somebody in the Murdoch family had something to do with Stevenson. I think that they were involved in it way too much from day one. It would just be too many weird coincidence or they know what happened. Like something. Somebody in that family knows what happened to Steven.

[Nick]

It almost seems like. Sorry for cutting you off, but it almost seems like how the family was involved in the boat crash in the potential efforts to cover it up. Are you saying that with Steven's death, there were very similar patterns of this family kind of hovering over the case in that way?

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah, from the day one when Stephen was found dead. Sandy Smith, Stephen's mother, said that her family got a call from Randy Murdoch, who's Buster's Uncle Alex's brother offering to represent the Smith family.

[Justin]

And.

[Mandy Matney]

And that's kind of a repeated move in the Murdoch. Murdoch world of putting a lawyer on the other side to pretend like they're on their side. They did that with the Gloria Satterfield case. They did that in the boat crash. And it was just. It was a weird. A weird thing because there was no, like, lawsuit at that point. There was no reason for Randy Murdaugh to want to get involved. And then months later, he submitted a tip to the South Carolina Highway Patrol saying something along the line saying that he had heard that two other kids that were completely different from Buster had killed Steven. And it's like, why would he care? This just doesn't make any sense. And not. And again, not saying that Randy has anything to do with this. It's just a very weird thing that the Murdoch name came up that many times. And it was also weird that the investigation appeared to be corrupt. Like, it appeared from. It was just skewed from the very beginning that somebody was trying to set things off course with making it look like a hit and run. And there's not that many people in that small of town who have connections and power in the way that the Murdaughs do. So all of those things added up, I'm just. I don't know. I think somebody in that family knows what happened to him.

[Mary]

The series ended on a little bit of, like, a maybe he didn't do it.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I was gonna ask, is it over? Is that we're up to date? So. So the last episode. Is that the end of season one or the series? Is there another episode coming out?

[Mandy Matney]

We have two more episodes.

[Mary]

Oh, thank God.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Justin]

All right.

[Nick]

Thank God. Because that last episode, I was very confused.

[Mandy Matney]

I would be very confused, kind of giving.

[Mary]

He didn't do it.

[Nick]

Well, you know, there are two more episodes, so we are excited to see how it unfolds. But in the last episode, I am curious what you think about that, because the way they portray the events of the murder, and again, you can see how maybe creatively they might play the next episode. But it really. It really is unclear who did it. I mean, it really is shot in a way where it's just like, oh, Alec didn't do it. You know, they.

[Sierra]

Right.

[Mary]

They show him with his mom at the house. And then coming back. Is that because we learned so much in trial about phone towers and.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah. So, like, for a long time, all we were getting was Alex version of what happened, which was like his Weird. His alibi never made any sense to me. Like, he said, like, I went after. After dinner, I went to go take a nap on the couch, and then I decided to go see my mom at 9 o' clock at night and then raced there and then raced home. None of that made any sense. And then they were murdered. During that time, he said, again, I was not a part of the creative of process how they decided to shoot this. But I. I really appre. At first, I was a little nervous. Not gonna lie, guys. The first time that I watched it, I was like, are we. What are we doing here? We trying to make fun, guys.

[Nick]

So we should. We should keep watching, is what you're saying.

[Mandy Matney]

Keep watching. Exactly. I've had some. Yeah, because people that listen to the podcast too, have been texting me. Like, Mandy, you're a part of this. Like, this looks like an Alex's innocent thing. And it's like, no, just keep watching. Like, it's. Yeah.

[Nick]

Thanks for clarifying because I was. I was really caught off guard during that last scene. It was riveting, fascinating, but a little confusing. But we will definitely keep watching.

[Mary]

What was your opinion, watching the trial and then the aftermath of finding out that the county clerk was involved in some sort of way, which is now, like, he's appealing or something.

[Mandy Matney]

Like, oh, my gosh, like, again, I. I wanted this all to be over in 2023, because at that point, I'd been doing this for four years, and I was just like, God, let's just end this. Like, he's got to go to prison. Like, let's move on, everybody. Like, this man deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life. We've proven that a hundred times over. And that was another time I was on a trip. Every time I'm on a trip, like, something insane happens. And helping my friend get ready for a wedding in Italy, actually, and got a ton of text messages from people saying, dick and Jim, who are Alex's very silly attorneys, at a press conference. And they're saying that Becky Hill, the county clerk, tampered with the jury. And we were all like, oh, God. My first reaction was like, I hope she didn't. But I don't know. During the trial, there were a lot of. I could kind of tell that she was getting too close to reporters, and she was kind of really, really enjoying the spotlight. And she's a small town clerk. I mean, like, a lot of small town county clerks aren't really cut out for having media from all over the world descend on Your courthouse and this insanity happening. And I think she just got caught up. But I don't believe that she tampered with the jury. I think that. That she was very stupid in a lot of things that she did. But, yeah, that's been a whole nother thing. And thankfully, last year, Justice Toll shot that whole thing down and said Becky Hill did not tamper with the jury. Like, what the jury decided had nothing to do with all of the crazy stuff Becky had going on. But, yeah, that was a. I mean, honestly, my thought was like, God damn it. Like, if Becky Hill ruined this whole thing and we have do it again, I'm gonna be so pissed.

[Mary]

Like, case is closed. He's behind bars for how long? Forever.

[Mandy Matney]

Ever? Yeah, he's got life in prison, and then he's got another, like, 50 years on the financial crimes, and then he's got a federal prison on President Federal. Yeah, he's. He's locked in forever.

[Nick]

What's Buster up to these days?

[Mary]

Well, his wife came on my TikTok for you page doing a lip. Lip sync dance.

[Mandy Matney]

Really?

[Mary]

Yeah. And I was like, all right, I.

[Mandy Matney]

Have not seen that yet.

[Mary]

It was something about. Like, it was something about the show. Her and her friend.

[Nick]

Yeah, but she was doing a lip sync promoting the show.

[Mary]

No. Kind of like having to live through this again or something along those lines.

[Nick]

Yeah. What. What is your thoughts on Buster? I mean, on some levels, you feel for the person. Again, not sure how involved he was, if not with the Steven death, but, like, he is a part of this family. Like, I guess the question for you is, like, do you have any sympathy for any of these family members or people involved adjacent? Were they all, in some ways, corrupt? Was this whole family kind of dark and evil? Or was it really Alec, the. You know, the kind of. The leader of all the darkness?

[Mandy Matney]

You know, that's a really great question. And. And at first, I don't really have a lot of sympathy for a lot of people, especially with my job as an investigative journalist. I just kind of. I find out horrible things about people all the time, especially men that are just getting away with it constantly. And I have a hard time getting sympathy for people. However, I've learned throughout this journey, especially with Paul. And I want to talk about what Johnny Burchtal did with Paul because. Because in. In 2019, when I first heard. And I got a lot of phone calls between 2019 and 2021 about Paul getting drunk again and Paul being an asshole, and he was just obviously this spoiled brat kid. I had zero Sympathy for him. Even after the murder. I'll be honest, after the murder, I was like, I've heard nothing but bad things about this kid. It sucks that he died. But, like, he also killed Mallory and. And lots of things. Has been accused of all sorts of things. But then it took me a long time to really realize that, like, he never had a chance in the way that he was raised. Him and Buster never really had a chance to be normal. They were raised by the psychopath who taught them that their name and everything and that they were better than everybody else. And that, like, I heard. I remember I talked to a couple of Buster and Paul's teachers, and they were saying, even when these kids were little in school, teachers were not allowed to discipline the Murdoch kids. Like, Buster and Paul could walk in late to class every day, and teachers weren't allowed to do anything about it because their mom worked for the school board or their grandma worked for the school board. And so they just had. They just constantly were protecting these kids, and they never, ever told them no or gave them any sense of accountability in life. So I really have gained a lot of empathy for both Paul and busy in the last couple years. And especially, I mean, watching Johnny in the show go through all the emotions of what Paul was going through at that time. And I believe that he was. I think that that's something that I've come to recognize. Like, I was really, really hard in my reporting of Paul for years, and then I started to realize, like, oh, wow, the evil is all his father. And. And yes, like, he made bad decisions, and yes, he could have been a better person, but he also didn't have a chance. He died at 20, at 22. And it's like, nobody really makes great decisions before they're 22. And it's sad that he never got redemption and he never got a chance. I do think that he was more emotionally connected than Buster. I would say that, like, I think a big problem in their family was that Paul would kind of challenge his father in a way that Buster wouldn't, and that would piss his dad off. And I think that Paul really, like, felt like an outsider in his family.

[Mary]

Did the Murdaughs have any sort of money still?

[Mandy Matney]

Oh, girl, that's a great question. Yeah, they do. We know that they do. Randolph Murdoch, the grandpa, when he died, I think he had, like, a $10 million trust that he passed down to his.

[Leia]

So.

[Mandy Matney]

And he was also a public servant. He was a solicitor. So how did he have all that money? Who knows?

[Mary]

Right?

[Mandy Matney]

There was a lot of money in a lot of different places and a lot of people, including me, still believe that like Alex has access to it and that nobody's ever gonna find it. And I mean, there is like literally $10 million missing that no one has found. The FBI tried, but it didn't. I don't think they really tried, I'll be honest. But I think one of my biggest problems and something that I've really realized with the justice system is how much easier of a track people like Alex get when they have very, very expensive attorneys represent them. And Alex had two of the most expensive defense attorneys in the state of South Carolina. And just today they put out a like 120 page appeal that costs a ton of money. And his attorneys tried to say that they were doing it pro bono for a while, but we were all like, you guys don't do things for free. We know, but I don't understand why there isn't more pressure on like, where is this money coming from that you're being paid? And this doesn't make any sense to me.

[Nick]

Before we let you go, I just have one more question. If the boat crash doesn't happen, do you think Paul and Maggie are alive today?

[Mandy Matney]

Ooh, that's a tough question. And that's actually a little foreshadowing for a question that's asked to Britney Snell later in the series. So good job. I don't know. Yeah, probably. I mean, I think that the boat crash set forth a series of events, but I think that somebody else would have died because of this family's reckless behavior. I don't think that it would have been all hunky dory if the boat crash wouldn't have happened. You know, like, I think that all of these things came to the surface because of the boat crash, but Paul was on a destructive path and his father was on a destructive path. So somebody was gonna die.

[Nick]

Yeah, I kinda agree with you that like, maybe it wouldn't have been then, but this was a family heading down a dark path. And just all the things that Alec was doing and all the people he was screwing over, over, it really seemed like the weight of the world was eventually going to come down on them. Oh, just one, one more question because obviously a lot of these series will often, like timelines get a little like you, you mentioned, moved up around, you got to tell a story. Do we know for sure? Like did the murders happen all around the time when his dad was dying and Maggie was leaving him and like asking for a Divorce. In terms of, like, was she not wearing her wedding ring when she was killed? And things like. Like that.

[Mandy Matney]

So this another, like, complicated question, but everything with the story is so complicated. Yes, his father was dying. His father died three days after the murders happened. And that was also a weird thing. But Maggie was living separately from Alex at the time of the murders, and she was not wearing her wedding ring. There were reports from the lady who did her nails saying that she told her that she was thinking about getting a divorce. But I think in reality, I think the show kind of displays her thoughts more than her actions, if that makes sense. I think she wanted to get a divorce, and she wanted to be making these steps. But also she saw reality, which is in South Carolina, divorcing a Murdoch in the low country is literally impossible. Um, and she knew that. So I think that she just felt extremely stuck. But with her wedding ring being off, some people say that it was because she was getting her nails done earlier that day. Who knows? But she definitely wasn't living there.

[Nick]

Okay. That call she made in the series to a lawyer and left, like, a voice message. I'm guessing that didn't like that. That message doesn't exist.

[Mandy Matney]

I have tried, really. I mean, I remember the summer after the murders. I contacted a ton of divorce attorneys and just basically asked, has Maggie Murdoch, like, on the lowdown, has Maggie Murdock? And I could not find anybody, but. So we don't know if it happened or not. But I think, again, it kind of shows what her thought process and what she wanted to do. And the other thing that's true to form or true to life is that her sister, unfortunately did encourage her to go to Moselle that day. And Alex did call her suspiciously and say, you need to come here because of my father. My dad's dying. He. She was lured there. And that was a big part, a big piece of the puzzle, man. Yeah, it's horrible.

[Mary]

The only.

[Mandy Matney]

The.

[Mary]

The last question I have, and you probably are like, I. Again, you. You were just an executive producer. You didn't, you know, write the script or anything. But they use the word bow so much. And I'm from the. I'm from the South. I lived in Savannah, Georgia, for 10 years of my life. So, like, this.

[Mandy Matney]

Oh, Savannah.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

This.

[Mary]

This case was big in Savannah as it was big in Hilton Head in North Carolina. And the use of bow is, like, used so much, where I'm like, is it that different that in South Carolina they use it that much and in Savannah they don't?

[Mandy Matney]

It Is so funny. The all the bow discourse that's happening online. Like all the.

[Mary]

I'm not the only one doing.

[Mandy Matney]

No, you're not. Like, there's a lot of controversy over bo. It's very funny. My opinion on it. Like in Hilton Head, no one says bo. And in Savannah no one says bo. But like mid South Carolina, Columbia, Hampton, more rural areas, they say BO a lot more. And they say it kind of like bro.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Mary]

I mean, I. I lived in Rincon, Effingham county, which is like definitely rural. We definitely. A lot of people said Beau. It just feels like every other word in the show. These, these, these. They like it.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Mandy Matney]

I've seen a lot of like, you're overusing it. But the creator of our show, Michael D. Fuller, he's an amazing guy and he's from Columbia or he's from Lexington, Columbia. And he was very big on boat. He's like, this is what we said growing up. So we're of kind gonna. And it does. It makes for a funny controversy that everyone's always going back and forth to your point.

[Nick]

These shows are. Are written obviously for larger audiences, for everyone involved. And they are trying to like paint a picture of these people. And I do think they did a good job of portraying Alec Murdoch as like this man child. Right. This kind of very. Yeah, boyish, you know, no rules applied. He might be 50, but he acts like he's an 18 year old, you know, chumming it up with the locals. And I think to that point they did a good job of painting who Alex Murdock was.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Mandy Matney]

I mean, and Jason Clark, like, my gosh.

[Leia]

So good.

[Mandy Matney]

I didn't again, everything. Like I was always a little bit. I'm suspicious of everything. So this has nothing to do with the creators, but like I saw a picture of Jason Clark first and I was like, how are they gonna do that? Like, he's kind of a good looking dude and Alex is disgusting. But I saw him on set and was like, oh my goodness, it's crazy.

[Mary]

Looks just like him. Sounds just like him.

[Mandy Matney]

He had, he had the mannerism. He acted just like Alec Murdoch on set. Like he did not. I never heard his Australian accent one time on set. It was just constantly. He was, he was talking like it. He was kind of always angry, kind of scary. Just a phenomenal job. I could not picture. Now I can't picture anybody else being him.

[Nick]

You know, it really is. I'm the same person, both him and Patricia Arquette. Remarkable performance.

[Mandy Matney]

Yeah, Patricia.

[Nick]

It's all very well acted even in the actors who played the boys. It's a really well done series. So congratulations to your involvement and it's been really fascinating to watch and obviously a very tragic story. You know, I don't know if there's lessons to be learned. I think most of us aren't trying to cheat the system and doing what the Murdochs did, but certainly it's a case that captivated this country. And, and this series is a. A very entertaining and easily digestible watch that really gives you an accurate portrayal of what went down. So thanks to. Thanks for bring. Helping to bring it to life.

[Mandy Matney]

Well, thank you. And I think they. I think there's a lot of lessons, I think, like Britney's character in the show, me representing a lot of the Journal, the Mark Tinsley character representing a lot of the attorneys who really like, it's kind of a David versus Goliath story of like, nobody thought that the system could ever change. Nobody thought that a Murdoch could ever be held accountable in Hampton County. And like, turns out he can. So that's what I. That's my big takeaway. I like to tell people.

[Nick]

All right, Andy, well, appreciate you taking the time. Where can people follow your work as they get more and more of the show?

[Mandy Matney]

Follow me on Instagram at Mandy Matney. My podcast is now called True Sunlight Podcast. I have two podcasts, True Sunlight Podcast and Cup of Justice Podcast. And also listen to the official Murdoch Death in the Family podcast where I go behind the scenes with the cast and crew.

[Nick]

Awesome. All right, appreciate your time.

[Mary]

Thank you.

[Mandy Matney]

Thank you, guys.

[Nick]

Well, that was fascinating.

[Mary]

So interesting. Murdot Death in the Family on Hulu now.

[Nick]

It's so wild about her is that like, she was invest like she was already investigating the family because of the boat crash and then like lived through the murders of Maggie and Paul.

[Mary]

It's a wild. It's a wild story.

[Nick]

Hold your. Hold your family close. And if you know Gary of the Golden Bachelor, keep your distance.

[Mary]

He will chop you up.

[Nick]

Cause he may chop you up. He already has a place for your body.

[Mary]

Has anyone checked out that shed actually recently? Maybe. Maybe they should.

[Leia]

I live there.

[Justin]

Where were they? Like, do we know what city?

[Mary]

Pretty Lake. I don't know Pretty Lake, but someone. The police, the FBI, the police need.

[Nick]

To go check it out, as ladies often do. Natalie was on Redfin not too long ago, just checking out some properties, you know, checking up some. Some land. And she sent me this listing of this. A lot of acreage looked really nice. And I was like, why does this place look familiar? Turns out it was more Moselle is the Murdoch's family.

[Natalie]

Oh, you thought she wanted to buy the house?

[Mary]

No, but she said to me, she's.

[Nick]

Like, what about this place? And I was like, ooh.

[Mary]

Like, yeah, that seems kind of like out in the middle of nowhere. I don't know, not really close to anything. I'm like. Then he's like, wait, is that like.

[Natalie]

Yeah, honestly, this is. That's a good bit for like a TikTok trend showing my husband haunted houses but seeing if he'll buy it.

[Justin]

Would you live in a haunted house? Like, if it was for. If it was like a good deal, Like a beautiful home on sale because of what happened there. But, like, nothing else is wrong.

[Mary]

It depends on why it's haunted. If it's haunted from, like, history, like the 1850s, I can do it. If it's like a recent, like if someone. Murdoch murdered his son and wife, I don't.

[Nick]

I'm not. I'm not with like a recent murder.

[Leia]

Speaking of spooky places, I did look up pretty like. And there are two. There's one in Indiana and Nick and Natalie. One in Wisconsin.

[Mary]

Well, isn't he from Indiana?

[Nick]

He's from Indiana.

[Leia]

I'm guessing it's the one in Indiana, but you guys can go to one.

[Mary]

Send the police.

[Nick]

It writes itself. The murder happened at pretty late.

[Leia]

Pretty late. But what the police found was not so pretty.

[Nick]

Well, that'll wrap up today's episode. Do not forget to check out our new merch. It's dropping this Thursday. Go to our link in bio in our show description or my Instagram to follow the countdown along. Join us on Thursday for an exciting reality recap. We have Harvey Ginn returning to the show to help us talk a little bit. Salt Lake City, you know him, you love him. He returns to the show. He's hilarious and he is in love with Salt Lake City just like us. Also, we have Elaine Hendricks from Dancing with the Stars. Following her injury, she's still crushing on the ballroom dance floor and she will join us to talk about her experience on Dancing with the Stars. And if you haven't listened to the Going Deeper episode that we had last week with Sparkle, Megan and Jordan and all our love is blind coverage. Be sure to check that out if you haven't already. That will do it for today's episode. Episode.

[Mary]

Bye.

[Nick]

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