The Viall Files: E1040 – Going Deeper with Jessi and Jordan

Podcast Host: Nick Viall
Guests: Jessi & Jordan (reality TV couple), Natalie Joy, Mary
Date: November 26, 2025

Episode Overview

In this poignant "Going Deeper" episode of The Viall Files, Nick Viall sits down with reality TV couple Jessi and Jordan for a raw and revealing exploration of their relationship’s struggles and growth, centering around emotional abuse, infidelity, healing, and accountability. The conversation—starting with Nick’s signature “How’s your heart?” question—dives into heavy topics including emotional triggers, cycles of hurt and healing, the challenges of public scrutiny, shifting family roles, and their ongoing journey through therapy and co-parenting, all against the backdrop of an upcoming season where their issues are laid bare for a reality TV audience.

Both Jessi and Jordan reflect on their past behaviors, own up to their mistakes, and express their hopes for the future, with Nick and the rest of the “household” offering tough but empathetic questions. The discussion is candid, sometimes uncomfortable, and ultimately revolves around the question of whether true change—and forgiveness—is possible after deep hurt.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Holiday Memories and Lighthearted Start

Timestamps: 02:18 – 07:57

• The episode opens with a warm, nostalgic conversation about holiday traditions, Starbucks holiday drinks, and family moments.
• Each co-host and guest shares their favorite memories—baking cookies, cinnamon rolls, neighborhood light tours, and cozying up with seasonal drinks.
• Brief, lighthearted banter sets a communal family tone before delving into heavier topics.

“It tastes like Christmas.” – Natalie (02:41)

2. Nick and Jordan: A Deep Dive Into Relationship Issues

Timestamps: 08:05 – 37:45

2.1. Processing the Reality TV Season

• Nick asks how Jordan is doing emotionally—Jordan responds he’s “better than he was. Still healing.” (08:17)
• Jordan explains the pain of reliving their relationship’s issues during the filming and when watching the season together, acknowledging “it was emotional, man... having to see myself react the way that I did... it’s hurtful, it’s painful to see yourself in that light.” (08:35)

2.2. Accountability, Shame, and Emotional Abuse

• Jordan admits to previously being more worried about public shame over the affair than his own part in causing pain. He acknowledges his controlling behavior, name-calling, and anger contributed to Jesse’s actions—a dynamic highlighted on the show.
• Jordan describes marriage issues as “like an onion... had to peel those layers back” after separation, realizing how his trauma blinded him to Jesse’s pain. (12:35)
• Nick probes Jordan’s self-awareness, pointing out the jarring nature of Jesse’s emotional abuse claims—Jordan concedes he was emotionally abusive prior to the affair, especially during times when he felt his “needs weren’t being met.” (15:51)
• Jordan explains his alter ego “Frank” as the side of him prone to anger and aggression, noting that “it’s not an excuse, but during those times... that was me screaming inside, hey, I want to be treated like a partner.” (15:51)

“Looking back and watching that back, it was really eye opening... There were a lot of scenes that didn’t make the cut that, you know, honestly were pretty bad, you know, to be forthcoming…and about your behavior? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.” – Jordan (10:25)

2.3. Origins of Behavior, Masculinity, and Family Dynamics

• Jordan recounts his upbringing in a male household, early marriage, and unresolved “feminine wounds” stemming from his first wife’s choice of faith over him, saying therapy has helped make that connection. (19:35)
• He identifies issues with aggression, feeling emasculated when Jessi’s career flourished, and resenting his own career sacrifices. (26:30)
• He admits he felt replaced and unappreciated, and wishes they’d been able to better communicate needs before things spiraled.

2.4. Changing as a Partner and Parent

• Jordan has shifted to being a more hands-on dad and supporting Jesse by taking on more at home, describing realization that “there’s seasons to this” and he now cherishes the time with their children, recognizing he might otherwise have missed out. (32:15)
• He admits awareness of the harm that exposing their children to their conflicts may have caused: “I think the best thing that I can do is just show them now how they should treat their mom and... women.” (32:24)

“That’s the whole point of me coming today.” – Jordan, about showing he is working on himself for listeners/the public (36:27)

3. Roundtable: Accountability, Public Narratives, and Moving Forward

Timestamps: 42:25 – 84:46

3.1. Jesse’s “Would You Want Your Daughter to Marry Him?” Answer

• The group revisits a controversial earlier moment where Jesse said she wouldn’t want her daughter to marry someone like Jordan. Jordan initially felt betrayed and angry but recognizes now that it was truthful to how he was treating her and “shouldn’t have responded the way I did.” (44:47)

3.2. Work, Roles, and Identity in Marriage

• Jesse and Jordan discuss issues of work and identity: Jesse explains her reluctance to involve Jordan in her family’s business, citing his tendency toward controlling behavior, while Jordan says he has learned to step back and support from afar. (56:07)
• Both express the challenge of balancing public, professional, and private roles as reality TV personalities.

3.3. Therapy and Attachment Styles

• Through therapy, they’ve identified their attachment styles: Jordan as anxious, Jesse as avoidant. Jesse admits to emotional numbness as a learned defense—she could “compartmentalize” and put on a happy face despite daily fighting. (63:28)
• Jordan says improvement has been slow but real: “It’s not perfect. I’m not perfect… But I love that the effort is there.” (62:26)

4. Affair, Forgiveness, and Honest Reflection

Timestamps: 58:32 – 79:49

• They clarify the affair happened during a separation, a narrative that Jordan admits he initially encouraged out of embarrassment.
• Nick pushes Jordan on whether he’s truly forgiven Jesse, and whether he’s able to not keep “bringing up the affair” as a means of control moving forward. (77:13)
• The hosts challenge Jordan to not couch accountability with excuses and for both of them to avoid keeping score of past wounds.
• Jesse shares that, while she sees improvement, any return to old behaviors would be her breaking point: “I was like, I’m one foot out, and if this happens again... I’m done. He knows that.” (70:53)

“I agree with that. I am disgusted. I should have never done it. There’s no excuse for it. But...there’s also no excuse for what she did.” – Jordan (78:34)

5. Repercussions, Public Scrutiny & The Path Forward

Timestamps: 68:10 – End

• With the new season’s release imminent, the couple prepares for potential public backlash. Jesse commits to not defending herself from justifiable criticism and hopes Jordan will respond to his critics with “I did do that. I messed up.”
• The group discusses the wider issue of believing women and the complexity of navigating public narratives, especially when serious allegations surface among cast members.
• Both agree they’re not fully “done” bringing up past wounds, but that therapy has helped slow the cycles (“That’s what therapy’s for, right?” – Jordan, 82:43).
• Nick impresses upon Jordan the importance of never reverting to his previous treatment of Jesse, both as a partner and as a role model: “You’re in a position now...to be a good role model...There is no justification.” (83:38)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Relationship Repair:
  “I felt like I was dying inside because I couldn’t talk to anyone about this because the risk of it getting out was something I was like completely petrified of… I think she was petrified of it as well.” — Jordan (10:25)

• On Public Scrutiny and Role Modeling:
  “You are going to be hurt in the future. Jesse is going to hurt you in the future. You're going to hurt Jesse. But I do think we can draw a line in the sand by how we speak to our partners.” — Nick (84:32)

• On Taking Accountability:
  “Well, I hope that my presence here today shows that I'm willing to take accountability and that you can make mistakes and you can grow from them and you don't necessarily have to be perfect.” — Jordan (36:27)

• On Therapy’s Role:
  “It's not perfect. I'm not perfect, guys...but I love that the effort is there...” — Jordan (62:26)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Holiday Memories & Warm Up: 02:18–07:57
• Nick/Jordan One-on-One (Affair, Healing, Accountability): 08:05–37:45
• Roundtable – Public Narrative, Roles, & Forgiveness: 42:25–63:28
• Affair, Reparations, Hurting Each Other: 58:32–79:49
• Audience Backlash & Role Modeling Discussion: 83:38–End

Episode Takeaways

• Raw and honest: Both Jessi and Jordan are open about their flaws and acknowledge their mutual wounds.
• Progress, not Perfection: The couple is still working through deep-seated issues, but therapy and awareness have led to meaningful, though incomplete, change.
• Accountability is Central: The importance of taking full ownership of one's actions, especially for Jordan, is repeatedly emphasized.
• The Danger of Keeping Score: The couple’s progress is hampered when “the affair” or “the years of emotional abuse” are weaponized in conflict.
• Public vs. Private: Reality TV brings unique challenges in managing not just personal healing, but public narratives—and the effect on their kids is always in mind.

In Nick’s words:
“I just think, you know, you’re in a position now as a guy, as a public figure, to be a good role model, not only to your daughters, but, like, for a lot of guys out there watching. And I think there’s just too many situations where men justify speaking to women a certain way. And I really feel like there is no justification.” (83:38)

Overall, this episode stands out for its vulnerability, nuanced discussion of relationship repair post-betrayal, and a public reckoning with toxic patterns—offering hope, but also a candid picture of how hard earned healthy change can be.