Host 2 (1:44)

We're very excited to have you.

Chris Appleton (1:46)

Me too.

Host 3 (1:47)

We're so excited.

Chris Appleton (1:48)

I've been watching from afar.

Host 1 (1:50)

Really?

Chris Appleton (1:50)

Yeah. It's just like on TikTok and stuff, you know, see the clips.

Host 2 (1:53)

Well, we're again, like I said, we're excited to have you. You have your new book coming out. Your roots don't define you. Which first question. I always get fascinated as someone who wrote a book a while back. But I love the title of the book.

Chris Appleton (2:05)

Yeah.

Host 2 (2:05)

And I am curious how you came up with it because I feel like when you're writing a book, you know, you're in it, you're writing and then like you're. It's just like, well, what do you think the title should be? And you're like, for me that was a very like difficult process because it feels like so much goes into it. But I love the name, obviously. I love the play on words. So I am curious, like, how did you Come up with it. Did you have help with your team?

Chris Appleton (2:29)

I mean, it was kind of a combination of throwing ideas around, but it came up pretty organically just because the basis of what the book was about. But originally this wasn't the book. There was a different book I wrote originally, which was maybe what people kind of know of me from social media. Like, you work with celebrities, life books. Great. And I kind of just felt like it wasn't really a real representation of me where I'm at. And so we redid it and I started with some, I guess, stuff I thought I'd never tell anyone. Like stuff that was once a real dark secret.

Host 3 (3:00)

Yeah.

Chris Appleton (3:01)

So I have to say, it was pretty full circle moment, doing the whole thing. And then really, the roots don't define you. Just came from the fact that it really does define so many people. And in my career, I've seen it define so many people. Like celebrities, models, like regular men and women that come into a salon. And I was like, I think we need to scratch the surface and take away a bit of this kind of glamorous, polished image that maybe people know and show a few kind of raw truths. And I was like, well, in able to do that. I guess I have to be open with mine, you know, and maybe that encouraged someone else to do the same.

Host 2 (3:34)

Was that a fairly intimidating process?

Chris Appleton (3:37)

Brutal.

Host 2 (3:37)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Appleton (3:38)

It's the hardest thing I've ever done.

Host 3 (3:39)

Did you feel freeing even though it was scary and hard?

Chris Appleton (3:43)

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely. It's been a real healing process I didn't even know I needed. I thought I'd dealt with a lot of stuff, but even when I was redoing the audio side of it, I was like, oh, my God, this stuff once was just such a dark secret, which I thought no one would ever know. And I know this has been recorded and it's gonna go out for everyone to hear. But the thing you know, I've grown and worked with different people. I've experienced things where I'm like, so many people have been through this, and if it can help just one person, then you know what it was worth doing. Because it's been a journey.

Host 2 (4:14)

Yeah. And it's.

Chris Appleton (4:14)

People just see the end result. You know, they're like, oh, it looks like you've got a great life. But it's far from that. And it has been at times, you know.

Host 2 (4:21)

I'm assuming you read your audiobook with your soothing British voice. Yeah.

Chris Appleton (4:26)

On its last legs right now. Hence the throat coat.

Host 2 (4:28)

As a fellow person with Dyslexia.

Chris Appleton (4:31)

Oh, my God.

Host 2 (4:32)

Was that as brutal as it was?

Chris Appleton (4:33)

Yeah, I got into it with the audio woman. She's like, again, again. I was like, I'm dyslexic. This is really. I was like doing eight chapters a day, which is a lot for me to read.

Host 2 (4:43)

I was like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I was just apologizing. There was a couple sentences that took me five minutes, you know?

Chris Appleton (4:49)

Yeah.

Host 2 (4:51)

Yeah.

Chris Appleton (4:51)

It's funny, like, you kind of, after a while, the words start to, like, merge in a little bit. I don't know. I just need to keep drinking coffee and changing it up.

Host 2 (5:00)

Well, I. Again, I keep saying I'm excited to have a chat with you, but your story, I find to be very inspirational. And I think, you know, we're in a time today where I feel like a lot of people, all people are looking for inspiration. And I feel like the world is a place right now where it's hard to find. And I think sometimes, often the world will, you know, tell. It's. I think the world's full of excuses of why it's okay to fail.

Chris Appleton (5:29)

Yeah.

Host 2 (5:29)

Or why it's okay to give up or not believe in yourself and with all the people. You know, opinions are everywhere. They're unlimited online. And yet you have a story that again, you know, you really started from nothing and you've grown to be this ultra famous, ultra successful stylists working with the biggest celebrities and really have overcome a ton of adversity. And I just think it's really cool for. I don't care who you are if. Whether you're someone who's super into hair or you're someone like me who's this kind of your typical guy who's a big sports fan. But hearing your story, you have so many, like, just really great lessons of, of why you've come to be where you are. It's not an accident. Like, you just, you know, it's not like, I'm sure you've had a. A couple of great moments where you got lucky or you find yourself in the right place, but, you know, it's not an accident. And, and so much of what brought you here are all the kind of the, the processes and the discipline that you've had and the, in the choices that you've made. And I think it's just really inspirational.

Chris Appleton (6:35)

Oh, thanks, man. I really appreciate that. You know, a few people have said that, in fact, everyone that's read the book has said something along the lines, which means a Lot to me, because, yeah, you don't know how people are going to sort of, if you. If you post a picture on Instagram and you're topless, it's like, what are they going to say? You look hot or not, like, who cares? But when you're actually putting stuff like this out, which is about your life and people can have an opinion on it, yeah, it's pretty scary. So it's been really nice to find. I've actually found a lot of people open up to me and, like, I've found very kind of comforting stories from it or been able to feel like they can tell me theirs, which I love, because I think there should be more conversation around that because people are complicated and life's hard, you know, and I think it's good to have more conversations around it. Especially probably someone from, like, me that looks like, have a slightly different life to what people know. You know, I do come from, like, we were really poor as kids and we had really humble upbringing. You know, my mom, like, she was her mom and dad got murdered when she was 10. My dad got put in a home when he was 5. Like, they sort of survived. But that gets inherited. You don't really realize. You pick up these kind of patterns and then you take them off into your own adult life. And I didn't realize how much affected me until I did. And then that's when. Yeah, that was the. That was the hardest time of my life. But I just wanted to be able to, like I say, just maybe connect to someone that also feels the same. And it's brought up a lot of different conversations, which I think are good.

Host 2 (7:59)

You write in your book a little bit about your childhood and how, you know, pulling parts of your childhood that, like, I talk to a lot of people who, whether, like, they have issues at home, maybe don't have a great relationship with their parents or just, you know, maybe have, you know, maybe a darker childhood and they want to just completely forget it, wipe it away. And you talk a little bit in your book, and I'd love to have you elaborate more the importance of not doing that. There's still something to pull and something to learn and figuring out what parts of your past really help shape you and then what parts that you want to maybe create new beginnings for yourself. And I guess at what point in your life did you kind of come to that awareness?

Chris Appleton (8:46)

I think in Reflections, what you said, like, so many people are stuck and a lot of people. And like, the reader will find this in the book, that people get to the point where they look in the mirror, like, is this it? Like, is this my life? How did I get here? You know, because we look in the mirror, like, 10 or 12 times a day. We just glance, like, brushing your teeth, you're doing your hair, whatever, you're picking your face, you're not very often stopping and really, like, looking and saying, like, am I aligned on the inside with, like, what my outside image is? You know, we don't always go that deep. There is a time that you do it without necessarily knowing, which is when you sit in the hairdresser's chair. And usually there's that kind of voice which is the hater. And I talk about a chapter in this. In the book where most people, I found they. They sat in a chair and they would pull themselves apart and speak to them. Like, they say the worst things about themselves. Like, you know, it start with, like, it's the lighting bad. And is this lighting bad? Like, God, I've got gray. Or, like, my wrinkles, or my hair's really thinning. And, like, my hair is that. Yeah, you know, the hater. And there's basically techniques in the book which I also wanted to sort of incorporate to be able to, like, I still have them now. I'm still triggered all the time, but instead of it being a volume 10, it's like, down to a 2. And you can come back to yourself and come back to, like, who you are as an adult, because it's not actually about deleting your past. It's about using it as motivation to, I guess, empower where you're at now. And a lot of us go back to, like, our childhood state. And a lot of the time, I think we want to, like, erase the dark parts of our life. And I definitely did that for a long time. But when I was a kid at school, I was very quickly told kind of what I was. So I was dyslexic at school, which, as you know, mate, it kind of. I don't know. Well, you told you were stupid.

Host 2 (10:29)

Not stupid. I'm 45.

Chris Appleton (10:31)

I'm 42. You see, I don't think dyslexia when I was a kid wasn't really.

Host 2 (10:35)

Oh, I have no idea.

Chris Appleton (10:37)

No, no.

Host 2 (10:37)

Yeah. I was just like, I. I can't read out loud. You know, you remember in school, then you'd have to read a passage, and I would be terrified I have to read it, because I just knew you couldn't. Couldn't. So not so much stupid. But, yeah, I was like, why can't you read?

Chris Appleton (10:52)

Yeah. It was kind of like, you either learn from the board and write it down and memorize it, otherwise you. You know. Whereas if I spoke about something, I'd. I'd get it. I could bring life to it. So really, I was kind of. I was put in, like, the special needs class. And, yeah, I felt pretty. Like I was stupid. I was told that. And then I started doing hair pretty young. My mum, I always. I always noticed, you know, she had a rough life.

Host 3 (11:12)

Yeah.

Chris Appleton (11:13)

And I kind of did her hair around the age of nine. And she'd stand up and look in the mirror and I'd be like, oh, wow. Like, you get to make people really feel something. Because I'd try and make her look glamorous, which was very far from what she looked like.

Host 3 (11:23)

Like, what were you doing at nine, do you remember?

Chris Appleton (11:25)

Just, I don't know. Like, you know, I just. She was sitting in the chair and I just. We'd probably be getting the hair dryer. I mean, I remember my dad having to cut the hair dryer at the back of her head and stuff. It was those. Remember those brushes that you just get matted in the hair and it was like, on. And you'd frantically unplug it because your hair's gonna sound fire. But in between that, I tried to do, like, hairstyles, which made a lot more glamorous. Like Hollywood stars. Like, I'd be like, watch people on tv. And then when she stood up, I saw her, like, kind of respond. And I love that. I felt that was really powerful. I was like, wow, I'm good at this.

Host 2 (11:53)

I did something.

Chris Appleton (11:53)

Yeah. I was like, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be the best at this. I'm gonna show everyone that I'm not stupid. So I got a job in the hair salon. But then when I got hair salon guys, then anyone that worked in a hair salon were gay. So it was just like, why have you got a job in a hair salon? You're gay. And it wasn't said in a nice way. Like, I. I mean, I don't want to go on about it, but I was bullied really aggressively, you know, it was. It was bad. I was spat on, beaten up. Like, not for anything other than just, like, people assumed I was gay because I did hair.

Host 2 (12:20)

So, like, instead of, like, you finding your passion, it was like, oh, I was you. You felt like people were saying you were forced into this totally because, well, it just seems like a sexuality.

Chris Appleton (12:30)

It was before I'd even kind of had sex. I hadn't. It wasn't even like I wasn't quite at that exploration stage. And I never definitely didn't get to have it because if someone says to you, don't put your hand in a fire, you're. You kind of just avoid it. I know it was like a bad thing. I was like, well, that's bad. I don't want to be stupid. I don't want to be gay. So I just got so fixated on trying to prove everyone wrong. But I got so fixated on trying to prove everyone wrong that I really abandoned myself like a very young age. I left who I was and that little kid that needed just to know he'd be okay and got focused and that really helped me in my career. Absolutely. But personally, it was terrible thing. And it wasn't until I was like 26, 27, which is when the mother of my kids, we'd been together Since I was 19, our relationship broke down and I started to explore more things. And that's when the gay thing came in. And that was really hard because it was something I didn't really understand. And then that was a whole. Another discovery. But it's not in answer to your question. For a long time I tried to delete the past, even moving to America. A lot of it was about being able to come to America and be like, hey, I'm Chris and I'm gay. I suppose to I'm Chris, who's gay, but was straight, has two kids. Everyone knows who my girlfriend was. It was just like, I just felt so ashamed and it felt so heavy. So I ran away. I moved to America. Yes, I would say it was for my job. Absolutely. There was a big motivation.

Host 2 (13:53)

But it was also like, I get, I get to move from my job, but also I get to start over.

Chris Appleton (13:57)

Yeah, I got to delete my roots. I got to be like, I'm not that guy. And so, so much so that when I used to come back to the uk, I'd come back on trips, I would have like a full panic attack. And I still didn't even understand that. I remember I was in the car and I couldn't like breathe and I was really emotional. I just was like, I've got to get out. I don't want to be here. I can't. And it was like post traumatic stress because I just abandoned that version of myself and ran to America. So actually cut back to this year. I've just brought House in the uk and it's interesting, this book comes out at this point because, like, it's the first time I've could go back and redefine my roots and understand that all of it is me. It's just took took a minute to get there and become, you know, the full thing. And I think a lot of people are so shamed. I mean, I was shamed my whole life. That's why I wasn't authentically myself. But when you're not aligned, like internally and externally, it's just a really sad place to be. There's plenty of times where I look like I've had it together and just been really sad in my life. But finding that real alignment is really your superpower.

Host 3 (14:53)

How were you able? I mean, your first job, when you worked at the hair salon hold, were you.

Chris Appleton (14:57)

I got a job at the age of 13.

Host 3 (14:58)

13.

Chris Appleton (14:59)

So I remember the. I remember that was so weird. I remember my first day in the salon. I was, I remember where I was standing against the wall. I saw women walking one way with like their head down, hair tied back, and they'd walk out. They probably always had a blowout.

Host 3 (15:09)

Yeah.

Chris Appleton (15:10)

But they felt like they were like take. They were like bouncing out. And I remember feeling like this is what I want to do. I love this. And it was so good. Like, I remember just feeling so mesmerized by how you could like affect people and make themselves feel seen. And then I made a whole career out of it, which was amazing. But then I talk about this in the book, like that's great for my profession, but emotionally not so much because I was kind of self abandoned myself. And that reflected in the relationships I went into and the decisions I made. Like, it's very complex, but when you break it down, it's actually really easy to see. I just didn't want to see it. I made a career out of making other people look in the mirror, see themselves. I just never looked at myself. You couldn't do it yourself until I did. And that's like the age of 26, 27. And once you look, you can't unsee it, you know?

Host 2 (15:57)

You know, it's funny you mentioned 26, 27. I.

Chris Appleton (16:00)

Did you come out then too? No, tell me.

Host 2 (16:03)

No, But I was around 28 when I had a relationship. I was engaged. It ended poorly and, and I, I look back now as a. One of the best moments of my life. And, and I say that because it was a time where I, I, that was when I felt like I really knew myself.

Chris Appleton (16:23)

Yeah.

Host 2 (16:23)

You know, I think up to that point, you know, it was I don't know, maybe just you're trying to be someone you're not, or you maybe again.

Chris Appleton (16:30)

You'Re trying to do what society tells you to. Be normal. Be this, be that.

Host 2 (16:34)

I always say, like, your early 20s. Are you trying to live up to the expectations you set for yourself when you're a teenager? You know. You know, you're 18, you're 19. I want to drive this. I want to do this. You have all these dreams and you don't. You know, you're assuming you' your early 20s, you're just like, I'm gonna go do that. And then you get to a certain age, you're like, I don't want. I don't know. I don't know if I want to do that anymore. And, yeah, it was not until my late twenties where I finally was, like, just kind of comfortable acknowledging to myself, I'm not good at that, or that is a weakness of mine, or I am. I'm. Yeah, I am insecure about that, you know, and just kind of being comfortable saying it, you know, where it was, like, when that relationship ended, you know, before people would ask, oh, why would that end? And you'd be like, oh, you know, it just. Relationships end.

Chris Appleton (17:16)

Yeah. And.

Host 2 (17:17)

And then finally I was like, no, it ended because of this.

Chris Appleton (17:20)

Yeah.

Host 2 (17:20)

You know, and even though I was embarrassed to say it, it, you know, there was a. A sense of, like, self assuredness and. Yeah, it was. It's just. It's interesting that I was in the same. Same area in life where you kind of felt like you finally accepted who you were.

Chris Appleton (17:35)

Yeah, I mean, I'm at that place now. I mean, I think when I was 26 and, like, I came out, that was. I mean, I spoke about this before. It's probably the darkest part of the book, which is when I tried to kill myself. I. Telling my kids was the hardest thing I think I could ever possibly do. I mean, you know, you guys know, as parents, all you want to do is protect your kids. Some kid hits them in the playground, you want to find out who that little shit is. And, you know, like, parent mode comes in. To be the one that you're causing pain to your kids was just, to me, like, the biggest failure. I just felt so much shame. And I think because it was so bad at school, you know, like, they're cool to play. It was like, I got badly beaten up. I got like. It was. It was really rough. Kids can be really nasty, so I kind of felt like I was bringing that pain to them. But Also, like, you know, we live in LA now or New York, but, like, from where I was from, like, it still to that day was like, it wasn't really normal to be gay. You know, it was still a little, you know, we think we get used to it. Maybe in the cities, but when you go into the suburbs, there is still that kind of, like, you know, gossipy. And I just. I just felt like I was just bringing that to them. And that broke me. I just was like, it would be better if their dad was dead than if they had a gay dad. Like, I. I genuinely believed that with everything I felt.

Host 3 (18:52)

Were you able to get past that feeling?

Chris Appleton (18:54)

I didn't. I remember I drove for a long time. It's funny, like, I think I was so out of syncs with trying to understand it. Everyone kept telling me I must have always known, and I didn't. Like, when I was having sex, I wasn't thinking of guys. I wasn't watching gay porn. I wasn't secretly meeting up with men. I just felt I was. I felt I was happy. I thought I was doing my thing. I had two kids. I was like, man of the house. I love, you know, my girlfriend. I mean, we're still best friends now. We have a great relationship. So I couldn't understand why I couldn't get back to that. But I guess, like I say, like, once you've seen yourself and, you know, something's not aligned and something's not right, you really have to go back to it. But cut from, like, you know, 13 to like, what, 26, that's a lot of years to try and understand what the happened, you know, in a short space of time. So I laid there and I took the tablets and I drank like a ball of gin. And Kate, actually is the one that called the ambulance. She traced my call, and I don't remember a lot. And it was in hospital for a while. And I remember just voices, but I remember laying there and I'm not thinking, well, I didn't die. I was alive. And I remember thinking to myself, well, I couldn't hate myself anymore. Like, I couldn't try and run away from myself anymore. I couldn't try and avoid who I was anymore. And I was like, what about if I just surrender? What about if I just accept it? And it was quiet. It wasn't like a loud moment, but I just kind of let go for the first time, I think, in my life since I was like that young kid that tried to prove to everyone there wasn't these things that I was. You know, they were telling me I was. And I just let go. And I didn't really know what was next. I didn't really know the next steps, but that was the beginning of the journey of finding acceptance.

Host 2 (20:39)

Well, it's like you were still there. Literally, once you let go. Sometimes the biggest thing we're so afraid of to acknowledge or to admit, and your fears were so dark that you had that dark moment. But once you, as you say, let go, it's like you were still there. You were still okay. You still had people who loved you. You still had your, you know, your ex partner who was still there. You're still your best friend. You still had your kids. And yet it was like there must have been kind of like, oh, it's. It's like, yeah, the. The world doesn't have to end, and I can. I can be resilient through this moment. And was there almost like, did things get brighter from there?

Chris Appleton (21:19)

Oh, 100%. I remember walking out of the hospital. I remember just feeling lighter, and they were like, we need you to speak to, you know, psychiatrists and stuff, because obviously.

Host 2 (21:25)

Sure.

Chris Appleton (21:26)

But I just remember deep down knowing I was like, I don't. I don't need that. I know. I just have to. I have to stop. I have to start living this. This is who I am. I don't know it, but I'm going to try and understand it. And anyone that doesn't want to be in my life because of it, I. I just have to respect that and just try and move forward. So, yeah, there was definitely a lightness. I remember walking out the hospital feeling. I just felt like the first day of the rest of my life. And it sounds really cheesy, but I didn't realize I was like this, like, so much of my life, like, tense. And I remember when I kind of. I felt like my shoulder. I felt like I just stopped. It's like I was holding my breath, and I just, like, took a breath, and I was just like, all right.

Host 2 (22:07)

Do you remember what it was like to tell your kids?

Chris Appleton (22:10)

I mean, it was hard because we live in a small town. People knew who we were, and it just felt really bad and dark. And we. So me and Kate decided we had to tell the kids, but I don't think we were. We hadn't figured out what that meant. She was going through what she was going through. I was going through what I was going through. So it wasn't as though we were in a great place to sit the kids down and be like, this is what's happening. We tried, but I couldn't even say it. I couldn't say the words. I was gay. I couldn't get the words out. I couldn't say it because I was like, once it's out, it's out. I can't take it back. And I couldn't say it in front of them. I could say it in front of other people. I couldn't say it to them. And then I remember this little confused. Billy, my son, was a little confused. My daughter was really upset. She's like, I just want you to be okay, dad. But I remember muscle sent you. Does that mean, like, you're gonna, like, have, like. We were handbeat. I remember saying we were on hand. Be like this because, like, you know, society projects these images of what gay men look like. There wasn't another role model of, like, you know, when I was a kid, I was told that gay men get HIV and die, basically. And it wasn't, like, necessarily the wrong information. It's kind of what they knew then, like, Princess Diana shook a guy's hand without a glove on that had hiv, and it was like, worldwide news. So it was kind of just what people knew. We've. We've grown a lot, and people will know a lot more in the, like, 10, 15 years, but back then, it was kind of just what people knew. So he. He was just confused. He was like, you can. And I said, I'm still me. I'm still me. I. You know, I just felt like I was. My life was rolling away from me. Everything I knew and everything I built was just going. And I just felt like I was the disease. I say in the book, I felt like it was a disease. I felt like I had cancer and I wanted to cut it out of me. I didn't want to die. I wanted to kill it. I wanted. I just wanted it to go, you know, I wanted to erase.

Host 3 (23:54)

What is your relationship like with that version of you today?

Chris Appleton (23:58)

I think I just feel really sad for that little kid that, like, never got a chance to explore, to, like, discover stuff, to make mistakes when he was young. It really helped me professionally because it made me so ahead of the game. I mean, I had my first house at 19. I had kids when I was 19. You know, I was earning money and. But emotionally, I just abandoned myself. So it wasn't. It wasn't. It didn't mean anything. Well, obviously my kids mean the world to me, but, like, the success didn't. It didn't really sit and it was I. I will honestly say, I think in part of the acceptance and part of, like, moving forward, my life and my career really changed quite dramatically very fast. You know, the whole kind of coming to America, working with celebrities and stuff. I think what a lot of people don't realize, and I go a lot into this in the book, is that you may think you're okay, but if you ever wondered, is there more? Is this it? You know, if you look in the mirror and don't really feel like you're fully aligned with how you feel on your inside to what your outside image portrays and, like, where you want to be in the future, something's just off. And when something feels not right, it usually isn't, you know, and it will affect your relationship you're in. It will affect your friendships, financial decisions. It affects everything.

Host 2 (25:12)

I mean, you saying that, like, it reminds me of my first week on the job post graduating college.

Chris Appleton (25:19)

Oh, really?

Host 2 (25:19)

I was an accountant.

Chris Appleton (25:21)

Oh, wow.

Host 2 (25:22)

Yeah. And I. It was like, I finished the first week. It was like a Friday. And I literally. I vividly remember this moment. I was an auditor, so I was at other. Com. You know, my company would go to other companies and work there. And I remember thinking, is this the rest of my life? Like, is this it? This can't be it.

Chris Appleton (25:39)

Yeah, but you kind of told. That's the normal thing.

Host 2 (25:41)

That's what to do, you know, it was like, oh, my God. I'm like, I'm 20. I don't know how I was 22, 23 years old. I'm like, this can't be it. Like, if. You know, and just. It felt off, you know, and it's. I just like hearing you say that, you know, and. And you're. And I did that job for a few years and just kind of muscled through it.

Chris Appleton (25:59)

And.

Host 2 (26:00)

Yeah, just. I. I just always. I always felt like there's just got to be more. There's just. I feel, you know, I'm capable of something more. I didn't know what that more was. And. Yeah, but, like, there was that voice, and it's just interesting to hear you say that to. And I think that's why. Again, why think I just connected with your book so much because I think so many people are told to ignore those. Those voices or just, hey, man, like, welcome to the grind, you know, And I think you have so many people around you, you know, and when I say that you. I mean, like, all of us who are just people accept that. They accept how things are supposed to be. And then, you know, it's sometimes your friends, you. You want them to be your biggest supporters, but, like, you know. You know, you talk about envy in the book or jealousy. Right. And the truth is that a lot of people don't want to see you succeed as much as they.

Chris Appleton (26:49)

People love to see people fail. Yeah.

Host 2 (26:51)

You know, because. And I guess to vec. You know, how did you overcome those voices where you were just like, fuck it, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna really go for it and not listen to that. Because it is hard to do.

Chris Appleton (27:03)

Yeah.

Host 3 (27:03)

Especially because it started for you at such a young age.

Chris Appleton (27:06)

Yeah. The voices. Yeah, yeah.

Host 3 (27:08)

The people telling you you can't do it, and you're.

Chris Appleton (27:10)

All the time. My whole career. I mean, I think when I came to America, a lot of people thought I just had it. They were like, oh, he's like. He's British. It's because he's. He's got blonde hair. Or it's because he's got a big, like, personality, you know, Like. Yeah, it's like, I don't know a million things of why I was, like, working with Kim Kardashian. I don't know. I think I was just good at hair and I really cared. But I think envy is a really powerful thing, and I put it in the book because it's something I've always kind of seen in my life and in my realm. And I think a lot of people have envy, and it can be a really dark, toxic thing if not used well. And I think I speak about it in a way of using envy as a motivation. So if there's some. Someone that, you know, we all had those moments where, like, God, their body is so much better than mine, or, like, I don't know, hair is perfect. Like, I look, why. Why can't I have that boyfriend? You know, social media is kind of sometimes a toxic place for us, you know, mentally. I think for me, I try and flip the narrative into more looking at that person as being an inspiration of how you can get what they. You know, what is it about them you want? You know, what is it about them you aspire to have and actually use them as a role model to work towards. Like, I remember when I was a kid in Par, Like, I used to assist at the shows, and I'd just be passing hairpins to, like, the. It wasn't even the stylist. I wasn't doing hair. It was at the Chanel fashion show. And I remember I'd just be passing pins to some other assistant. But I Was there, like, four in the morning watching the main person, I'd be like, how do they walk? How do they talk? How do they interact with their models? How do their hands move? I would just be a sponge. And I've been like that for every, like, moment of my career. Even working with Kim, she has created this empire. I mean, I remember when she created skims, and it was cool, called Kimono originally. And, like, just all the challenges of building your own business, building an empire. Like, I'd be a fool not to be. So, like, I would never. I don't think I'm ever jealous, but they're definitely role models. And I just kind of think, wow, I'm inspired by that. And I'd just be like a sponge absorbing it. And I think in the flip of that, like, envy is such a bad place to be. And I think that gets really dark. You know, sometimes I see these comments on social media. I remember there was a client, I saw a comment under someone's page, and it says, I hope you get cancer. And I was like, me, that is such a really sad people out there. And, you know, I think it roots from envy and, like, jealousy. So it can be a really dark place. I think it's also paralyzing, and it keeps you exactly where you are. So I think, yeah, all right, look, you can feel envious for a minute, but then get up and do something about it. Like, if you want to be better, be better. Like, let's start. You know, that's like being jealous of someone with a hot body, you know, and you sitting there eating donuts. It's like, there has to be a point where you're like, all right, how did they do it? And maybe I build my way towards that. And, like, what are the steps to change? Because change is the hardest thing. Most people go, well, I want to change. I just don't know how. But again, that's what's in the book. The reader will find ways of, like, sort of finding out where they're at, where they want to be, you know, what the future looks like and kind of how to get there. Because I think a lot of people just lost. A lot of people just don't know, you know?

Host 2 (30:08)

Yeah, starting's often the hardest part. You know, let's get those. Get those habits.

Host 3 (30:14)

Going back to your childhood and being bullied. How I was severely bullied in junior high. Was there anything during that time that your parents did or didn't do? Obviously, we have a daughter. Everyone who's listening, who has children Wants to protect their children in those moments when you were really struggling.

Chris Appleton (30:33)

Yeah.

Host 3 (30:34)

Getting bullied. What did you wish would have been done by your parents? Or what did they do that you were like? Like, thank God I have them.

Chris Appleton (30:42)

I think I. I don't know if there's anything they could do. I think it was just society was a certain way. It wasn't one person. It was so many people.

Host 3 (30:51)

Yeah.

Chris Appleton (30:51)

And, like, my mom would be at the school all the time. She'd call the police. Like, when I just got jumped out of school and guys just be punching me in the back of the head, and I didn't even fight back. Like, I'm a big guy. I could probably defend myself, but I just didn't understand what was going. I understand what. Why I was. I hadn't done anything.

Host 3 (31:06)

Yeah.

Chris Appleton (31:06)

You know, like, I think they tried their best they could. I just think there needs to be more conversations. Maybe people that do have a platform like I do. And that's why I did the book, because it's like, all right, this is what it looks like, but this is what. It's what I really come from. And maybe this can make someone else feel less alone. And I think I just probably wanted to feel less alone in that moment. Like, less like I was, I don't know, like an outcast or I was doing something wrong. But I think that really goes back to me coming back to myself, and I think I just self. I abandoned myself, really, at a young age. And a lot of people do. A lot of people abandon themselves because of society trying to do the right thing for their parents, you know, like told to be a doctor and not necessarily what they want to do or told that, you know, I don't know. You're the quiet one or you're the loud one. I think you, like, carry these things. I first realized when I, like, sat with people in the salon in the chair, and I talked to them about, like, you know, what they wanted to do, what their aspirations were, and they'd be. They'd say things like, oh, you know, I love have blonde hair, and maybe they have brown hair, but, like, I know I could never be blonde. And I'd be like, oh, why is that? And they're like, well, I just know I could never be blonde. I say, okay, interesting. That. Like, who told you that? And they're like, well, oh, well, you know, and they'd go back. And actually, when I was a. When I was younger, as a kid, this girl, you know, and it's like, we. Cat. We you carried that for 20 years, and you let that hold you back your whole life. That's, that's a, that's like a small, silly example. There's so many, like, the way you behave in your relationship, the way you spend your money, the way it's all things like, usually we've inherited. They're not necessarily our choice. We think they're our choice, and we'd argue they are. But if something doesn't feel right and something just feels off, and like I say, you get to that point where you're like, this doesn't, this doesn't feel right. It's usually because you're not living authentically. You're living a version of yourself. Someone told you to be going through.

Host 3 (32:54)

What you went through. Were there characteristics that you instilled in, in your children at an early age to, like, protect them or give them the confidence and the, you know, I.

Chris Appleton (33:08)

Mean, you do your best, right? As a parent? Me and Kate, I have to say, Kate has been a saving grace. She's still my best friend. We still talk all the time. And it's real love. It's like we have an unconditional love, I believe, because we have these two kids who, despite it being dysfunctional, it works. And actually had a situation at Christmas when I went back, got a house, I got my parents and my family and stuff to all kind of leave the town we were brought up in. Because I thought, I want everyone to sort of, like, get out of that sort of smaller city and have a different experience and start again, like, be able to have a different opportunity. And it was funny. Like, we were at a table and someone said something, and I was so taken back. I was like 12 years old again. It was the weirdest thing, just the, the tone of the voice, the way they were speaking, what they said. And even though everything I know and I've learned, I, I, my head was just down because I was like, if I say something, it's going to be a war. So everyone went quiet. The whole table just went quiet. And then, and yet, you know, I did, I, I, I went to do what I always did. Put my running shoes on. I left. I said, I'm gonna go. You know, I just thought, I don't want to really be around this. So I left. And if I want to get out, I want to leave. I want to go back to America. I don't want to be here. I just can't be around like, that and that dynamic. I've moved on so much in my life. I Just don't want to be around that. And then I really thought to myself, and I was like, well, that's what I always did. And that's like the wounded version of myself, like run. But what about if I just sit with it and I sit with the uncomfort of it and I actually, instead of just going, well, that's the way they are. They've always been that way. What about if I put a boundary in place? And I did. I actually said, look, this is how I feel and I want you to respect that or, you know, you're just not welcome. And that was really powerful. But my daughter came home and she said to me, oh, when you left, it was like everyone was, you know, arguing or whatever. I said, okay. And she's like, I just want you to know this particular person that like, I love you, but I've never had the best relationship with them. And I think, you know, going forward, I. I just, I'm drawing the line. That's my boundary. I don't want to have. You know, I'll welcome whoever. But like this particular person that they've crossed the line, like the way they spoke to me, it was just really bad. And that's not what I want in my life. And I was like, yeah, yes, yes, thank you. Yeah. I was just like. And I was just thinking, wow, we did kind of a good job, you know, because like people don't realize that they can set boundaries and they can. It's not. It doesn't mean you're arrogant. Kitty, My daughter is the nicest, sweetest girl in the world. But God, I'm proud of her. The way she would just like have that self respect to say, because I know she's a great person, you know, and someone spoke to her awfully and she was just like, you know, I'm done there with that, you know, and I'm going to create that separation. And I don't think like as a society we always allow people to have that voice, you know, we kind of just, well, it's just the way they are. It's just the way we do it. But I think that's, you know, how you make a change by putting your boundaries in place and then just moving on.

Host 2 (36:07)

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Host 1 (36:09)

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Host 2 (37:27)

Your kids are adults now and like Nellie said, we have a almost a two year old and we every day are, you know, feels like she's growing so fast and she's starting to speak and you know, and everyone's saying, you know, go fast, don't, you know, don't blink or don't do this. And I'm just curious. Matt Damon recently did an interview where he talks something about this. And I was really to by a story and he said he got some advice about not blinking. And he told the story about his daughter. I think she's 17, broke her collarbone so she can't, she couldn't brush her hair. So she was getting ready for school and she asked Matt, can you brush my hair?

Chris Appleton (38:04)

Sweet.

Host 2 (38:05)

And so, so he had this like epiphany where it was like, you know, she's 17, so clearly she's been old enough to brush her hair for some time. And it was like, holy shit. I don't remember the last time I brushed my daughter's hair. And it was like this really kind of man, you take for granted how fast this goes. Do you have moments like that now that your kids are older and I just. From your perspective, can you share anything that from our standpoint of parents, just a reminder of how fast it goes?

Chris Appleton (38:37)

Yeah, all the time. I mean they constantly remind me that they're not kids anymore, you know, I'll just be like. Just small things, like, hey, Kit, can we come around, hang out? Let's, I don't know, do something? And she's like, oh, sorry. I'd have made arrangements with someone. I'll be like, oh, okay. And I'll be like, oh, can't you. Why don't we just do. And she's like, well, dad, look, I'm sorry, but, like, you know, I've made a plan. And I'm. I'm. I know just small ways where I'm like, oh, you know, as. When she was just a little kid, I would just do whatever whenever we wanted. You always wanted to hang out, and I'm not always in it, and that's hard.

Host 2 (39:08)

I remember when I first started dating and we. She asked me to brush her hair once, and she literally taught me how to brush her hair.

Chris Appleton (39:16)

You asked him to brush your hair?

Host 2 (39:18)

And she.

Chris Appleton (39:19)

Okay, I see what you guys get up and.

Host 1 (39:20)

Yeah.

Host 2 (39:21)

And she's like. Like, I don't. She. She's like.

Host 3 (39:24)

He just started going at it. I think I'd, like, gotten out of the shower. And I was like. Or something. And I was like, can you just, like, brush my hair, please? And he just started going. And I'm like, whoa. Ow, that hurts. You got to, like.

Chris Appleton (39:35)

I thought you were, like, doing role playing. Just be my hair today. Oh, okay. What are we doing today?

Host 2 (39:40)

She was like, hey, someday you might have a daughter and you're going to have to brush her hair.

Chris Appleton (39:45)

Teaching her.

Host 2 (39:47)

And now that we have a daughter, I love brushing her hair. And it's like a moment. And now it's like, then I heard Matt's story, and it, like, made me so sad that, like, there will be some day where I stop brushing her hair.

Chris Appleton (39:59)

But, you know, I then try and, like, just think about how I have a lot of gratitude. And I have always had gratitude because I'm always been present for it. But I think I have a lot of gratitude now, and I really value that. I'm at the place in my life where we can. I could just really appreciate it. And I sit back now and I watch a lot more and I take it in and I really absorb it. Actually, in my life, it's always been very busy, you know, trying to be something, trying to be successful. Now I've really, like, learned to be present and really just take it in and just be grateful. Whether it's just, you know, I don't know, we take the dog to the park and it's the most. I just love it like, we have a dog, Dash, who's like, the heart of the family. He's running around and just sitting on the grass and just talking. And those moments just feel so special because I know they're really rare. And hopefully you get the privilege to grow older, but, you know, we don't. And, like. No, no, I think I just, I. I feel gratitude a lot. And I will say, I think feeling gratitude is really powerful because it's so easy to go to the negative, and that kind of goes into the envy of what you've not got and what we're missing out on. But trying to just be really grateful.

Host 2 (40:59)

Yeah, it's the. It's the only feeling that doesn't have a toxic opposite. Gratitude.

Chris Appleton (41:04)

Totally. You know, and there's nothing more like, you know, gratifying than being a parent and just watching your kids grow.

Host 2 (41:10)

When you moved to la, was. Was being a stylist for celebrities this always the goal, or is that something you fell into?

Chris Appleton (41:18)

Well, I was on this mission to be the best, right? So I got a job in the age of, like, what was I, 13? I qualified pretty young. I was working in the salon. And then I started to see what was outside of that. So I was doing, like, editorial hair. I was doing Fashion Week. I was doing photo shoots. Just anything I could get my hands on, any course I could go on, I would learn any aspect of hair I didn't know how to do. I would. I would go and learn how to do it. I remember I was in New York once and I had a photo shoot and they wanted. Wanted me to do this braid. I couldn't do it. So I got myself in a car, took myself to a braiding shop, and I just sat and watched. I paid the woman to watch me. I was just sitting there of a doll's head. I just wanted to be great at my craft. I kept just trying to take it in and be a sponge. So one day I'm working in London. I had a little bit of success in London, but obviously England's, you know, smaller, and I was working with Rita Ora. So social media had just started and I was just posting my work and I was changing her hair a lot. It was long, it was short. It was kind of before, like, Kylie Jenner and stuff was doing, you know, her green. You know, it was always. It kind of became a. Of changing the hair. But at the time it was kind of relatively new. And I got an email one day. Remember, I was on set, check my emails, and it was asking me to do JLo's hair for a Vegas tour. And I thought, oh, wow. So I deleted it. Oh, it's trash, right? Like, I'm like, oh, you've won a million pounds. All you need to do is ring this number. And, like, I'm like, ah, you're not getting me. Oh, stupid. Moved on. And then I remember, like, a week or two later, I got another email and I was like, what the. How does JLo know who I am? Like, I'm just Chris, this little guy from Leicester, like, trying to do some hair and do a good job. I don't know. And then I'm thinking, well, I guess it's social media. I guess it's the power of social media. And people look like everyone's fell on someone's page without. You know, everyone's kind of exploring all the time. So I just got to thinking, like, well, maybe I could take it to the next level. Like, I kind of felt like I'd reached a peak in the uk and I used to do my mum's hair, like, trying to make her look like a Hollywood star. I said that that's kind of. I guess it was always the goal, so maybe I could do Hollywood stars. So I moved to America. I just moved to London. So I was in a small town. I was in a small town called Leicester. It was like two hours away. I moved to London, had a little apartment. I packed two suitcases and just moved. I left everything. I left all my memories, really. But again, that was me running. I moved to America to, I guess, you know, further my career, but also probably to escape where I was at in my life of coming out and stuff. Arrived to America and I, you know, I felt pretty good about it. And I wait for the phone to ring and it didn't ring. So it'd been maybe three, four months, and America was expensive and it was big. And I remember crying. I was thinking, God, like, I. I failed. Like, I. I didn't get the call. You know, a lot of people go to Hollywood. It's the land of dreams, right? But it's also the land of, like, failures, you know? And I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And one day I got a call to do Christina Aguilera's hair for the Voice, and I was like, okay, cool. This is it. This is my moment. I'm okay. I'm ready for this. And so I started to research Christina Aguilera, and I'm like, made me feel awful. So I turned up to the Voice and I was like, I'm gonna do this. I felt pretty confident. There was three hours for glam, which sounds like a long time. But usually like management are pulling in one area, they're doing pictures. It's, you know, it's not that long. So the makeup artist went in and an hour went by and I was still waiting outside. So I was thinking, well, maybe there's, there's. Maybe someone's doing a hair and I'm like finishing it or back up. I don't really know what was happening, but I was trying to just kind of gauge what was going on and make good impressions. Two hours went by and I was sitting outside, so I'm like, well, I don't know what's happening. And I was terrified by that point. Cause I'd sat for two hours. So the last 20 minutes before the live show with the Voice, she calls me in. So in my head I was like, her hair is probably going to be done because what else could the. Only 20 minutes. Yeah, I mean, what else is going to happen? Right? Yeah, well, it wasn't done and it was ready to be done. So I'm like, oh, okay. So she's like, what do you want to do? And I was like, what I want to do is have two hours ago. But you know, she was like doing press stuff and it was just. That was the situation. Sometimes that's what happens. So I was like, I had all these hair pieces prepped and I thought, oh, that would be a really quick way of like, you know, kind of getting this looking great fast. And I was like, have you ever tried these wigs? She's like, I don't like wigs. And I was like, yeah, sure, that. Of course you don't. Yeah, why would you, why would you like anything I'm about to do? And I was like, I swear to you now I remember thinking, oh, she sees me. She sees that 10 year old kid they used to do my mom's hair. She sees right for. She's worked with everyone. She sees right through me. She's like the first Hollywood star I'm working with. And I just felt. And I remember it on my chest. It was like in my stomach. It went up to my chest and I felt like it going through my arms. I felt like I couldn't move. And there was 20 minutes and I'm like, there's probably 15 minutes now. So I start doing this thing that hairdressers do where they just like kind of move your hair. Like the hairdresser stands behind you, hairdresser, and just kind of moving your hair like this. And I was like, I was kind of hoping something was going to happen. It's the only time this has ever happened to me, never happened since. And I'm not a hugely spiritual, like, person like that. But there was this moment where it was like, the only way I can describe it, it was like in. In a world of haze. It was like the clouds parted above me in the trailer of the Voice. And I heard Kate's voice, and she said, if you don't, don't do this and make this work, you're gonna have to come home. And I just thought about my kids, and it's like it put me back in my adult body. It's like I. Instead of being 10 years old, I was like, back to being Chris, who had spent 20 years learning their craft, knew exactly what they were doing. And I thought, if I don't make this work, I'm gonna always kick myself. So I got one of the wigs and I was like, let me just try this. Because we'd prepped all these pieces and I put one on hand and she was like, oh. She was like, oh. And she was like, I like it. And then the stylist was like, I like it. So There was probably 10 minutes, and I buried her hair under this wig and she ran off on the stage. And then I sat there, because then it's out to the world. Unless we know social media, they're always gonna have an opinion. And it was different. So they were definitely gonna have an opinion and sat there waiting. And there was a little break. She came off and she just looked over at me and she was like, everyone likes your wig. And then carried on talking to the contestant. And in that moment, and was the moment where I knew I'd done it. And I tell you, I swear to you now, if I'd have given in to that feeling that everyone has of fear and self abandonment and just shame, and I was just felt so small, I definitely wouldn't have written this book. I wouldn't be here now. I wouldn't have done any. I would still be in the UK and I'd probably still be living that version of my life that people told me I was. And I'm not saying that we all have those moments where we're triggered, but it's just about learning lessons to be able to come back to yourself. Unfortunately, I had it. I had people in my life, like Kate, who reminded me of who I was when I didn't Even know myself.

Host 2 (48:02)

That's a great story.

Chris Appleton (48:03)

Yeah. Kind of makes me feel sad, but it makes me just feel sad that I was so not present for so much of my life.

Host 2 (48:09)

Why sad?

Chris Appleton (48:10)

You know, because I think everyone deserves to be seen. And I think I was so. I don't know, I was so fixated on trying to make other people happy and trying to do the right thing, and I just wasn't doing that for myself. You know, I think I was. I was in an abusive relationship, but it was with myself. Because professionally it was great. It was. It motivated me to be the best. Don't fail. But emotionally it was just like abandonment, you know, And I. I made a career out of making people look and feel their best, see themselves in the mirror. And I. It doesn't work like on your personal level. Cause there's an amount of self abandonment you do with that. And I think it's really sad. It's really sad that that guy didn't feel like he deserved to be there in the room. And I think a lot of people feel like they don't deserve to be in the room.

Host 2 (49:02)

I mean, you talk about imposter syndrome in your book.

Chris Appleton (49:07)

Yeah, yeah.

Host 2 (49:07)

And I know. I have felt that, especially doing this job, you know, where it's just, you know, I feel like I'm just delusional. You know, I have a. I have a. Just enough of why not me?

Chris Appleton (49:20)

Yeah.

Host 2 (49:21)

And then once you get to that spot, you're just like, how the fuck am I here and why? You know, kind of that, like.

Chris Appleton (49:27)

Yeah.

Host 2 (49:29)

How have you been able to work through that imposter syndrome to the point where, again, you're Christina Aguilera, Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, you're working at the Met gala. I mean, at some point, how have you been able to just look in the mirror and say, I belong and. And you've talked about you wanted to be the best and focus. How did you go from that person who kept doubting yourself and questioning your existence and your place in the world to recognizing that you were there through all your dedication and hard work and all the. Just the little things you've done to have the skillset you have to make Christina Aguilera look great in 15 minutes when you thought you had two hours? How have you been able to get to that place?

Chris Appleton (50:18)

I had to go right back to the beginning, right back to that kid at 12 that I abandoned. Had to go back and understand him, like, understand that I did that. Understand. Because I felt so confused of, like, how my life changed so dramatically, and I didn't feel like I had any control of it, so I had to just go back. And I think there's a level of self love I just didn't have at all those avoid because I didn't allow myself to. So I think going back to. To that younger version of myself and seeing myself as a young kid that was struggling, and instead of speaking so poorly to myself and saying, like, you know, the worst shit like that, we all do. No one could speak worse to yourself than yourself. You know, like, instead, maybe he needed to hear it was gonna be okay. And that although you felt misunderstood and different, that one day that would be like your superpower, you know? And that was really kind of comforting to be able to do that for myself. And I think the reason I did that is cause I kept getting myself into situations like relationship friendships, making decisions that just didn't serve me and I wasn't happy in. So I wanted to change that pattern. So I had to look at why I was doing it. And it all stemmed from that point of, you know, not being truly aligned with who I was or not being allowed to. Allowed to make mistakes and not being allowed to figure it out. And now I. For a long time, I'd be in a relationship just because I couldn't stand being on my own. Because being on my own, you had to, like, be with yourself. You have to look at yourself. And I felt very uncomfortable. Now I've been single for two years, and it's been probably the best solid two years of my life, because I'm happy to say I also value my life. I really value my relationship with my kids. I mean, that's always been there. But I think I'm way more protective of our bubble now. Whereas before, I'd be like, let people know they're cute. We'll figure it out. Love's enough. And now I'm just not as naive because I'm like, well, love isn't enough. And, you know, I really want to protect my world because when someone's in it and you're not aligned, it can be a terrible place. So I think I just learned to protect my circle and the people that are in it as. As you should and everyone should. I didn't get given those tools. I was a kid, you know, I didn't. I didn't know that you. You had the permission to do that because it was always about everyone else.

Host 3 (52:32)

What is your relationship like with the Internet? And how do you not allow response or criticism to, like, get in Your head and make you feel like, oh, my God, did I do a bad job on that hair? Should I not have done that? How do you not let the Internet, Internet opinions affect you?

Chris Appleton (52:51)

I think I, I love a good conversation. I don't know. I don't know. I just don't feel too connected to it because I think, because I. Ten years ago I would have. When I came out, when I did, I did the Jay Shetty podcast and I talked about. When I came out and I spoke about my relationship with Kate and I saw some negative comments that were like, you always know. You always knew. You ruined her life. What a selfish person. You're evil. And for a second, I was really triggered and I rang my pr, Alex, who's probably listening to this now, and I was like, this is horrible. Like, I was back to that. I was back to, like when I came out 26. Shame. I knew everyone is gonna. I like, did the wrong thing. Like, what did I do? No one understands, you know, I guess it got a lot of attention. When something goes viral, I guess you have to understand there's gonna be a mixture of opinions. Not everyone knows you. They do just know what they saw in that 10 second clip or whatever it is. So that kind of. I mean, Alex was great at just saying, Chris, this is. That's what the Internet is like when you put yourself out there. And I know that, you know, to an extent. And I was fine with that on, like if someone says they didn't like the hairstyle or if they say you've got two abs, not six, I don't know, like, I was okay with that because it was a sort of cosmetic version of my life. But when it was my story, real insides, a secret I'd had my whole life, life and people, I felt incredibly triggered. But it didn't last long. I came back to myself because I know who I am as an adult. I've done the work, so it doesn't really affect me. I don't feel like I'm easily pushed now. Whereas before I would have felt, you know, whereas now I can come back to myself and be like, you know what I'm doing, what I used to do, I'm just triggered. I'm going back to that place. In actual fact, I know how I am and I can come back to myself. So you always have that voice. It's just, I can turn it down now. And I think regarding the Internet, look, you know, I, I read comments all the. And there's a certain amount of humor. I put to it as well. Because sometimes I think, God, what are you doing? Like, right. Like, who's got the energy for this? And I'll tell you now, I also think from experience, because if I've ever felt, you know, in those random moments you've seen something, you're like, I really want to say, like, yeah, well, you don't deserve that. Or, you know, so obviously you don't write it. But, you know, there's odd moments. We're human. We've all had them. I hope. Have you guys had them. But, you know, instead, like, I think I try and, like, that would probably have been coming from a place of envy or jealousy or what it. And I think that's really not attractive. So I think I try and catch myself and I'd always be like, what is it about them? I like what they're doing, like, in their career or in the way they look or who they're dating or whatever it is and try and flip it and make it healthy and turn it into something positive. Because the alternative is really fudgeing miserable. So I think, you know, there's. Sometimes when people are so mean, I think it's just too far for me. I don't really connect to that. But a good conversation. I mean, me for. For it. I'm all right. If you don't like my hair brown and you like it better blonde. That's a cool.

Host 3 (55:48)

Honestly, you pull off both sometimes.

Chris Appleton (55:51)

What has he done to his face? Like, the. Like, he looks so much better with blonde hair. Like, I was reading these comments the other day, and I just was laughing because I. I look in the mirror and I like what I see, and I'm all right with that. Like, there's plenty of things that are wrong with it, but I like what. What I see, and that's good. You know, for a long time I didn't. A lot of time I'd be like, I've got to change my haircut. I have to go back now. I'm like, it's just in the back opinion. All right.

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Host 2 (57:32)

You, you talked about your, your single for, for two years in a good place. And you, you went through a very public divorce not too long ago. Heartbreak is such a difficult thing to get over, especially a marriage that goes, goes, goes wrong. Because you know, when you, when you get married, you're, you're thinking end game, right?

Chris Appleton (57:50)

Yeah, absolutely.

Host 2 (57:51)

Even when you get engaged and then when it doesn't work out, there's always this thought of like, I never thought this could happen to me. And then you, you know, the, the labels of society, you start projecting onto yourself. How did you work through that Potential self judgment and, and the sense of potential failure of a relationship not working out the way you had hoped and yeah, how did you. For all the people who listen to the show who are heartbreak, who have a hard time picking up the pieces and moving on, what was the process you went through to try to work through that in a healthy way to, to not let that relationship didn't work out? Not, you know, it's like that failed. But you're not a failure. You know, it's just that relationship clearly didn't serve you. And a lot of times leaving something like that requires a lot of bravery and a lot of strength. And how are you able to recognize that?

Chris Appleton (58:44)

I think a lot of the time, like, I think people are really complicated and relationships are hard work and I think everyone brings baggage into relationships. I Think going for it publicly is obviously quite intense, you know, for everyone to have an opinion on your private life. I mean, if you relate it to the book. Like I talk as a chapter in the book about the breakup haircut. Like, it's one of the red flags of haircuts. When someone comes in and they're going for a breakup, like, cut it off. I want to get rid of it. I want to cut it. I want to go back blonde. I want to do it today. Oh, my God. All the time they want to do something really dramatic. Because usually you want to cut away the version of yourself that's hurting. Yeah. And you're in pain. And I'm not afraid to say, I've been in pain plenty of times through plenty. Plenty of breakups. And I think the only way I've ever dealt with it is just to go right through it. I like to really understand it. I like when I understand, why did I go into that relationship? Why did I make that decision, and how do I stop doing that? Because there's some. There's a pattern that I'm attracted to that I keep getting pulled towards, but it doesn't work. And like, again, when you trace it back, a lot of the time it's things you've seen in your childhood that you thought was the right thing to do, and that's the normal way. And, like, you have to unlearn those patterns. So I think in answer to your question, it was just about going right through it. And I think I was. I think in the past, I've been addicted to making people feel good, feel loved, feel seen. And I just didn't know I could do that for myself. I didn't know I could have that self love, which is really sad. So I guess in a way you could say I was. Yeah. I mean, I guess if I was addicted to love, you know, I was addicted to giving other people it. And that causes all sorts of problems of self abandonment, of, like, accepting things that you would never normally. And, like, thinking love is enough. Because the truth is, the sad part of it is love just isn't. It's about compatibility. It's about honesty, loyalty, and putting the work. Putting in the work. Yeah. And like, there's so many situations I've been in, I thought I was going into something. I mean, I could say I'm a billionaire. Doesn't mean I am. But I think I was quite naive to be like, oh, yeah, this person wants to be. They want to be the better version of themselves. They said that you know, we'll work through it. And I mean, I think for me now actions beat louder than words. And that's why I've been single. Because whereas before I'd go into something and be really open to it, now I'm way more like, okay, I mean, it feels a little, a little less, less dreamy. You know, I always felt you met the one and you, you, you know, that was it, you're happily ever after. Now I'm a little bit more reflective. I kind of think about like where I'm at in my life, what, that, what I need in my life, what would be aligned, what would work. And when you figure that out, the sad truth is that the pool of people is way smaller, but you're way more selective. I describe it like buying a house. You know, when you first get a house, when you're a kid, you get like a place and you're like, I love it. Like I, I want to live forever. It's got doors and windows. I want my own key and it' and I can do what I want. And as you get older and you buy a second house and a third house, you realize things you do and don't. Like. Like I like big windows with lots of light because that apartment I lived in, in a basement was dark the whole time. You get refined. You refine your search. If you're, you know, developing as a person, which hopefully you are, and learning by your mistakes, you refine your search. So once you refine your search, there's less houses that are going to work because just any house doesn't work. And I think that's the place, you know, I'm at in my life now. I think I just, I know what's good for me. I know where I'm at in my, I'm open to it, but just not going to give it away, you know.

Host 2 (62:18)

Just had a thought, listening to your talk. I mean, you know, throughout this whole interview you've talked about how you, you know, just from the beginning of being a nine year old boy, making your mom feel good.

Chris Appleton (62:29)

Yeah.

Host 2 (62:29)

And when you're doing people's hair, you, you see this visceral reaction to them. And I'm an acts of service guy. That's my love language. It's how I show love, it's how I like to receive love. But you know, throughout my years I, I've kind of realized that I was often in relationships where I knew how to show the love, you know, but I wasn't, I wasn't open to receiving it. And I'm wondering for you, as someone whose whole profession was centered around making people feel good, I imagine you carry that into your personal relationships. And did you ever find yourselves in relationships where you were, you felt like you were taking care of them more than they were also taking care of, of you?

Chris Appleton (63:09)

Yeah, like, the dynamics are, I think when I look back on my relationships, I think I definitely, I know what my toxic trait was. I think it was basically thinking I could fix people or even felt like I should. Like, why would anyone want to do that?

Host 3 (63:24)

Yeah.

Chris Appleton (63:25)

You know, but I think as a young kid, I did my mom's hair, stood up, looked in the mirror, I felt some, I was, oh, wow. I get to make her feel someone that was sad and had like, she had quite a lot of depression and she, she had a. Really rightly so. She had a terrible childhood. But I got to fix that for a minute. I got to fix it. And that for me was really, I loved it. I love making people feel something. And I, I, but like I say, when you put that into a relationship, it doesn't really work, you know, that doesn't. You can't. It's not my job to fix people. I, I just don't want to anymore. You know, I think I'm allergic to that stuff now. Like, whereas before I'd be like drawn to it. Now it's like, it's like you're in exile because alcoholic. It's like, ah, that drink looks really good. I still get attracted to it. I'm slack, but I'm like quickly like that. I know where that goes and that I do never want to be there again, you know, so you just learn to avoid it and move on. And yeah, maybe the highs are not as high and the lows are not as low, but it's a more consistent place to be.

Host 3 (64:22)

Did you have to learn kind of how to exist in the same room as celebrities or was that something that you walked in and you were like, I know my place, I know what I'm supposed to do.

Chris Appleton (64:34)

You know, it's really. I usually try and bring humor into a lot of things. I do. Yeah, I up so many times. So funny. I remember I worked with Katy Perry. So shortly after Christina Aguilera, I worked with Ariana Grande. I did these like hoops in the hair. Remember the hair hoop things? And that became a thing. And then it became this kind of roll on effect and it was quite fast and furious. And I got Katy Perry for the Met Ball and she wanted this kind of like Shingon thing in her head, and she was very particular about what she wanted and how it was. So I got a hotel room. I prepped for, like, two days. The whole hotel was like pair pieces. I needed it to be, like, not frizzy. I wanted it to be smooth and polished, and I needed to do it fast and efficiently. I couldn't be fiddling around, trying to fix. So I was really, like, you know, worked hard at knowing what I was doing, Turned up on the day, and she had black hair at the time. And I used this, like, padding. It's like a donut like, that you put underneath. And my assistant at the time brought a blonde one, and she had black hair. So I'm like, oh. So I was like, oh, I know. I'll do what hairdressers do, is that. I was like, I'll spray it black. So I sprayed it black, and I was like, it's all good. I got this. Did it. Like, she loved it. I was like, wow, this is great. I feel good, like, and I walked away. And I remember thinking, like, oh, this is going good. And I remembered her mind. I was like, oh, my God, my hands are black. It's crazy, like, from the spray, right? And then I looked in the mirror. I was like, oh, my God, my face is black as well. You know, it's all over my face. So I walked over to Katie. The makeup artist was like, if looks could kill. And she's looking at me, and this is like, the Met Ball. It's the biggest carpet. He just bleached her brows, and this black stuff just kept coming. It kept dusting down all over her face. She looked like she'd been chimney sweeping, you know?

Host 2 (66:12)

So I'm like Mary Poppins.

Chris Appleton (66:14)

Oh, my God. Like, I mean, I think the makeup artist literally wanted to kill me. And, like, you. I don't know. I've just always had this sort of way of bringing humor to it and trying to sort of laugh. But also, I've always just been very professional. Like, I know I'm there to provide a service. Service. And so I'll just. I don't know. I've always gone in with, like, quite a focused head. Very. I'm always Prepped. I had JLo the other day for the Golden Globes. I've not seen her for a minute. Again, like I was before the Golden Globes. I was nervous. I said to my sister, I'm nervous today. In fact, I said, it's my trainer. And I was like, I'm nervous. And he's says, why are you nervous? I said, I got JLo. He's like, dude, you're the king of hair. What the.

Host 2 (66:48)

You.

Chris Appleton (66:48)

You nervous? I was like, yeah, I still get nerv. He said, you still get nervous? I said, every time. I don't know why. I think it's because of kids care, you know, because you're only as good as your last gig.

Host 2 (66:56)

I was thinking about before this interview. I was, yeah, well, yeah, it's just like. Yeah, you're just.

Chris Appleton (67:01)

But I think that's a great place to be in it, because I feel like the time that you don't is. Time is done.

Host 2 (67:06)

Yeah.

Chris Appleton (67:06)

Like, if you don't. You know what I mean? Like, you want it to be good.

Host 2 (67:09)

Like, you want it to be different. You want it. Yeah. You want it to be unique. And, you know, you just like, what happens if I get stuck, you know, in a feeling? But, yeah, you just.

Host 3 (67:18)

It's also such a relatable feeling feeling, you know, of, like, feeling nervous. And it's like, you look at someone like you, and you're like, there's no way, you know, you would be nervous after all these celebrities, after all these years. And so to hear that you still do is like, oh, wow. He. Yeah, you know, he's human. He's one of us.

Chris Appleton (67:35)

100. And like, you know, we always. We all have that, like, feeling of like, they're gonna see us, they're gonna see that. I don't really know what I'm doing, and I don't. But I just think, like, you can learn to turn. Like I say, the book is a lot about that. It's about learning to turn that voice down, come back to yourself from someone that's just been through it all at the highest. You know, you.

Host 2 (67:54)

You mentioned JLo, and you. You, before we started recording, you mentioned that you were doing her hair for that iconic green dress moment.

Chris Appleton (68:00)

Oh, yeah. It's one of the best moments ever. I mean, it's so interesting to see something like that come to life. And everyone was going. Everyone was so happy. And like, most fashion people are like, you know, glasses and smiling and, like, cheesy smiling. Even Anna Wintour was. I don't think I've ever seen Anna Winter smile. She was smiling and applauding. I mean, to be a part of that is pretty special. But even today, I got my book and I opened the box. It's the first time I'd seen the book because it had, like, a fake version it. And I read the back, and it was from Kris Jenner and she wrote the forward. And I'm like, wow, Chris Jenner wrote my forward. That's already amazing. God, I'd be really proud of myself as a kid. You know what I mean? I kind of have those thoughts now. Like, I still have those.

Host 3 (68:36)

What was that conversation like when you asked Chris to write the.

Chris Appleton (68:39)

She said I was really nothing. I text I that, babe, can you. Would you do this? Like, I understand if you don't want to. It's completely fine. If you're way too busy for even respite, don't even resp. If I don't respond, it's fine. Just plug me. It's fine. If it goes green. I know you don't want to talk. And she's like, oh, my God, I would be honored. I would. I mean, she's. I have to say, Chris is. I've known Chris for a long time and I bursted her hair after many years of working with Kim. Only recently, I think it was last year, was the first time after working with Kim for however many years. And Kim said, can you do my mom's hair while we're in Paris? You know, she just likes to blow out or whatever. Of course. And so she sat down in the chair and like at 5, 5, whatever o' clock in the morning it is. I'm like, okay. And everyone's like, they'd be like, 4, 45. Because she'll be in the chair waiting. I got in the chair. I got in there at 45, she's sitting there. Hi. I'm like, oh, God, I'm late. Am I late? And like, you don't want to be late. So I, like, I tend to be late. So I was like, so, you know, I. I've never been that guy that's like, what are we doing today? Same as usual. Because I saw how people reacted in the salon. Like, that's that one moment where you're maybe open to change and seeing something more. And there's nothing worse than someone coming over to you and going, same as usual. And you're like, okay, sure. Yeah. That's why I write about the book. This word called fine. I hate the word fine. It's such a, like middle of the ground place to be. And it's like, you probably feel terrible, but people say, how are you? I'm fine. You know, if someone cuts all your hair off and you know they're cutting it too short, do you like it? Yeah, it's fine. You know, how do I look? We look like. But I'm film I feel fine. I think it's just one of those words. So she was like, just blow it out. And I was like, chris, this is the first time I'm doing your hair. This brand new face, which looks so good. Yeah, I'm not gonna blow hair out. Let's do a wig.

Host 3 (70:23)

I've got this one from Christina Aguilera.

Chris Appleton (70:25)

Look. Yeah. And she's like, oh, oh. And, you know, I actually did this event with her, and she. She actually cried when she was telling this story. She said, because, you know, she said, like, I had my hair, this short haircut my whole life. And Chris, like, stopped and took the time to, like, see a different version of me and bring that out. And she said, I'm so grateful for that because. Because, like, he stopped and saw me beyond what he knew and enabled her to, you know, evolve into something else. And, like, now she has a longer hair and she tries to look some like, you know, for a 70, if she had, like, her hair pinned up and, like, she's been loving it. But, you know, even someone like Kris Jenner, you know, people get put in boxes and like, you know, it's. It's such a human feeling to want to be able to move on and evolve. And she's done such an amazing job with her story. She's not hiding it. She's not trying to pretend she didn't have her old face. I think it's great she was so open about it. It's just it with the Internet and she's having fun doing it, you know, so it shows you that at any age, a lot of people think you're too old, over the age of 30 to change, which is not true because you can transform your life at any age.

Host 2 (71:29)

You know, you've worked with obviously so many highly successful people. Kris Jenner, Kim Kardashian, JLo. What is the best, best piece of either personal or professional advice you've ever gotten from a client?

Chris Appleton (71:44)

Oh, personal advice. Probably from Kim. She told me so many things, like, she's just really caring and kind, you know, and helps guide, you know, if you have a question, if she's not sure, you know, lots. I don't know. I. I mean, I, like, I said I'm kind of like a sponge. And you do become, you know, you have like a friendship there. And, you know, it's organic that you have conversations and she's, you know, through hearts of times in my life or her life, I know you're a part of it because you're always together. You know, I don't know. I can't think of one. I can. I can't say it. Oh, I can think of a really good one. She told me. Yeah, I do feel like this is, this is.

Host 3 (72:26)

I feel like I'm always like spilling my deepest, darkest secrets when I sit down in the. It's like in a. You're like in a therapist chair when you sit down in the hair salon.

Chris Appleton (72:33)

And you're like, see, open up.

Host 3 (72:35)

Yeah.

Chris Appleton (72:36)

So that's why you got him to brush your hair. Like, Nick, I'm gonna open up to you.

Host 3 (72:39)

Like, we need to talk. We brush my hair.

Chris Appleton (72:41)

Nick, brush my hair. I wanna talk.

Host 2 (72:44)

Is there any celebrity or client you've worked with that you feel has surprised you in a great way, where maybe the public perception of them is not what you've gotten to know as their friend and stylist?

Chris Appleton (72:57)

Oh, I think everyone, I think everyone has such a small sort of amount of information that they, they take and then they assume this person is that way. I've got to, I get to see people behind the scenes and you know, I think people are so quick to say this person's a diva or this person's this and like, you know, they saw two seconds of like what their day was and the sort of build up towards that moment. That's unfortunate. Thing is everyone's waiting for someone to say the wrong thing and use that clip or the wrong moment or be in the wrong situation. And they kind of want to, but that's kind of the Internet. So I mean, yeah, I mean, I think I have a very different version of JLo or Kim or Ariana or Dua Lipa or whoever it is, you know, that I've worked with than maybe what, you know, the public would have just from that small information because they're human beings, you interact and you know, there's a friendship there. And I have to say I think everyone I've worked with have all been great people and I've learned something from all of them for sure. And if there was someone that didn't, I probably wouldn't work with them again. But no, I can't say I've ever had that.

Host 2 (73:54)

Is there anyone you haven't worked with that's kind of on your dream list?

Chris Appleton (74:01)

Who's on my room list? Oh yeah, I know exactly who. I sat next to her at a table the other day. Pamela Anderson was always such a. When I was a kid, I remember getting the little bay watch. It was like a little candy like box and you got a card And I always wanted. Was it, what was the name? Was it cj? Cj? Yeah, cj. I always wanted Pamela. But it was Pamela, you know, because she was just this, like. I don't know, I was so into her. And I remember I went to this event the other night. I was with Chris, actually, my friend, and I said, I really want to see Pamela. And I don't get starstruck. I don't know why, just I guess because I work with people and I know it. They're just, they're just people. And, you know, but there's something about Pamela that's like a childhood thing about me. So I, it feels like she's Pamela Anderson. And I walked in the hotel and she was there and she'd just gone back blonde. And then I was walking and we ended up in the same elevator. And I was like, oh, I love your hair. She's just gone back blonde. And she's like, oh, thank you. Yeah, I just have to get, get rid of that old, you know, this other character. And I was like, cool. And then we bumped into each other again on the carpet and then we ended up sitting next to each other. And I was like, oh. I was like, I really want to take a picture. But I didn't. And then I just said to her at the end for, oh, it, I'll just. I said, you know, I'd love to do hair one day. And she's like, oh, cool. Yeah, that'd be great. I said, do you know I do hair? I, I, I. And she's like, yeah. Oh, I know you do. Yeah, I guess she knows who I am. Of course. She was like, yeah, we should do it. And we had like a little kiss after and not a kiss like that, of course.

Host 3 (75:25)

I mean, you're British. I would. No, of course we all would.

Chris Appleton (75:30)

You.

Host 2 (75:30)

Oh, my God. I grew up fan of.

Chris Appleton (75:34)

I mean, I probably. I'd go back to 20 year old. No, not at all. But I definitely, I mean, I don't know. She's. Yeah, it was great. It's nice to have those moments. Fun.

Host 3 (75:45)

That is fun. That you still get to have.

Chris Appleton (75:46)

Yeah, totally.

Host 2 (75:47)

Chris, this has been so much fun, man.

Chris Appleton (75:50)

Thank you for having me. I have to say, you guys, great. I love you guys. Relationship and connection. You guys have had a.

Host 2 (75:55)

Thank you. Yeah.

Chris Appleton (75:56)

Good duo going on. I've had a really nice time.

Host 2 (75:58)

I love what we do. And it's. Honestly, conversations like this make it so fun and enjoyable and, and just hearing people's stor. You know what you've been able to accomplish is, like I said from the start, like, truly inspirational. And I think the world needs more stories like yours and, and reasons to believe in themselves. And if people are listening to this and sitting in a place where they're just, you know, hearing those voices or just, you know, something doesn't feel right, like you, you are a great example of someone who, you know, can, can be in that place and you can do something about it. You just have to start. And you know, I always say shavings make a. Yeah. I just, I really appreciate you sharing that story.

Chris Appleton (76:39)

One step at a time. Yeah.

Host 2 (76:41)

Well, the book is your Roots Don't Define youe. It's out January 20th. Pre orders are available now anywhere you preorder a book, so be sure to pre order Chris's we'll put the link in our show description so make it easy for you. Be sure to check it out. It's an excellent read. It's an easy read. If you're someone like me who likes to listen to the book, you can listen to this beautiful voice.

Chris Appleton (77:01)

Read it to you, my husky, dried out voice from all these podcasts.

Host 2 (77:05)

Chris, thanks so much, man.

Chris Appleton (77:06)

Thank you you so much for having me, guys.

Host 2 (77:08)

Bye bye.