E1065 - Traitors with Britney Haynes and Crystal Kung Minkoff, RHOBH and The Toxic Mom Group

Summary

The Viall Files – Reality Recap Edition

Episode E1065: Traitors with Britney Haynes and Crystal Kung Minkoff, RHOBH and The Toxic Mom Group
Airdate: January 20, 2026
Host: Nick Viall
Guests: Crystal Kung Minkoff (RHOBH alum), Britney Haynes (Traitors S3 finalist), plus regular panelists Natalie Joy, Mayra Amit, Angie K.
Theme: A lively breakdown of reality TV drama, focusing on The Traitors (US S4); Real Housewives of Beverly Hills; toxicity in mom groups and friend groups; and the psychological realities of TV fame.

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Episode Overview

This Reality Recap dives deep into the latest pop culture headlines and reality television hot topics. Nick and the Household chat with Crystal Kung Minkoff (former Real Housewives of Beverly Hills) on "toxic" mom groups and friend dynamics, then with Britney Haynes (The Traitors S3) for an in-depth post-mortem on the show's gameplay, casting, and drama. They tackle viral reality TV moments, the unique pressures of televised fame, and refreshingly honest perspectives on exclusion, competition, and empathy—both onscreen and in real life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The LA "Toxic Mom Group" and Exclusion in Parenting Circles

[01:33–07:56]

• Crystal discusses the “LA mom group” scandals and why friend group drama escalates when kids are involved.
• Hollywood's interest: Studios circling the "mom drama" story for potential film/series adaption ([03:37]).
• Lingering pain from exclusion: “When you're not included, it reflects on your child, and it's so painful.” — Crystal Kung Minkoff ([04:01])
• Mom group politics are “not unique to LA, just more visible because there are famous people involved,” and start as early as preschool.
• School birthday party rules: Preschools enforce inclusive invites; social dynamics can still turn cruel over minor issues (“if your kid bites another kid, they could be exiled from mommy-and-me class...It sounds insane, but it happens.” — Crystal, [06:21])
• Crystal’s PSA: Lead with empathy and grace as a parent, because “if it’s not your kid today, it’ll be your kid tomorrow.”

2. The Reality TV Fame Trap: “Game of Thrones in Heels”

[07:56–13:07]

• Nick’s friend—a producer—compares reality TV social dynamics to Game of Thrones:

  “At the end of the day, everyone is competing…even when people have success, few are happy for you. Most people say nice things to your face and talk shit behind your back…It’s kind of dark.” — Nick ([09:12])

• Crystal validates: FOMO and social comparison are exponentially amplified in the reality TV sphere; even her 13-year-old son avoids Snapchat “for my mental health” ([09:59]).
• “Too famous to work, not famous enough for money”: The “dark underbelly” of mid-tier celebrity, per Nick’s manager’s famous line ([12:19]).
• Crystal’s husband’s take: RHOBH was “Squid Games in high heels. You’re partners until your best friend has to become your enemy, and one of you has to die.” ([12:44]).

3. Breakdown: Ben Affleck–Lisa Barlow “Friendship” Nonsense

[13:07–18:34]

• Media frenzy: Ben Affleck was asked if he knew Lisa Barlow (RHOSLC) and responded graciously but clearly had no clue who she was.

  “He answered it in a way that was very generous…Of course, he had no idea who she was.” — Nick ([13:43])

• Panel laughs about the Internet’s “sad Ben Affleck smoking” meme and the “JLo effect” on his tabloid persona.
• The cast jokes that Lisa Barlow may have gotten Affleck’s movie more views through Bravo drama.

4. Reality TV Production & Housewife Honesty

[18:34–22:26]

• Carlos King’s comments (RHOSLC producer) about Heather Gay:

  “Heather Gay is the most dangerous housewife...When she said production could have given her the black eye, that’s when I said, there’s nothing I have for you anymore.”

• Crystal’s defense of production teams:

  “Production leaves their families, works their ass off, and would never do something like that. Production is your people. I hope that was just a terrible slip up.”

• Nick adds: Production is “the first to get criticized, the last to get thanked. Nobody ever credits them when things go right, only when they go wrong.”

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5. THE TRAITORS: Inside Baseball with Brittany Haynes

[27:55–59:52]

Brittany on the “Traitors” Experience ([28:10–33:06]):

• “Definitely a little FOMO watching it back—it’s such a camp, immersive experience. But in the moment, it’s brutal.”
• “The anxiety as a faithful is constant. There’s no rest. You’re just hoping not to get murdered or banished.”

Early Season Dynamics—Accusations and Herd Mentality

• “You hear a name, you just go with it so it’s not you. No one wants to be first out.” — Brittany ([30:21])
• “The real game is who’s willing to throw out accusations, and how they act when wrong… Some apologize, some deflect and just move on.”
• Colton Underwood’s reckless gameplay: “He doesn’t care how he does in the game—he just wants screen time and to be the center of attention.” ([33:06–34:07])

Real-World Parallels

• “Isn’t this just like throwing out wild accusations online? People convince themselves something is true, pile on, and move on if proven wrong.” — Nick ([29:55])
  • Brittany: “Confirmation bias. Once you hear a theory, you see everything through that lens, even if it’s dead wrong.” ([39:49])

Why Do Players Follow a Proven Wrong Leader?

• “Because if someone else is willing to take heat and throw out names, it’s easier for you to sit back and coast another week.” — Brittany ([37:13])
• Crystal: “But why do people rally around someone who’s so clearly off?”
• Nick: “Because it’s anybody but me.”

Authenticity vs. Performative Villainy

• On Michael Rapaport: “I find him insufferable. Not a good villain—just abrasive, loud, and annoying, with no depth.” — Brittany ([43:39])
• On game meta-strategy: “The best villains have layered motives. Just screaming for attention isn’t interesting.”
• On Colton: “When Tiffany told him she’s smarter than him, I guarantee he’s still thinking about it.” — Mayra ([53:12])

Best & Worst Dressed (Fashion Segment)

• Brittany: “It’s like the cast missed the assignment—no tartan. Why are we suddenly on safari?” ([55:21])
• Panel’s verdict: Best dressed—Maura Higgins, Candace. Worst dressed—Colton (“Linebacker as grandma”). Alan Cumming “remains the gold standard.”

What Makes a Good Game (and a Good Housewife)

• The cast (like Dorinda) succeeds by “fitting in and floating” vs. standing out unpredictably.
• Brittany: “People overthink who production would pick as a traitor. Sometimes, they’re just playing for the best television.”

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6. RHOBH: Recap and Analysis

[60:03–73:56]

• Like The Traitors, exclusion and performativity also infect the RHOBH circle.

• Panel discusses Amanda, a new Housewife: Her “one-upmanship” and lack of self-awareness rubs everyone the wrong way.

  “You can’t one-up Kathy Hilton. That house fits in Kathy’s bedroom.”—Crystal ([60:50])

• Despite being “the cast’s only real drama source,” Amanda is so awkward that even Erika Jayne won’t spar with her.

  • “Maybe bad Housewives are just people who are totally unaware of how they come across.” ([61:44])

• Housewife etiquette: The group debates lateness, social graces, and how fake drama (re: the ‘Avi’ assistant story) fails to land.

  “All you really have to do is go knock on the door…instead, they spin minor issues into banter or drama.” — Brittany ([68:29])

• On fourth-wall constraints:

  • “There’s so much they can’t say. It feels like all of the drama is happening offscreen.”—Panelist ([74:06])
  • Crystal: “I’d rather have my integrity than be a ‘perfect’ Housewife exposing everything about my life. This is fleeting; you go back to your real life regardless.” ([74:17])

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7. Cast Collusion, Housewife Precedents, and Ravaging TLC

[75:56–84:52]

• On cast collusion to oust members (Katie Janela, Monica Garcia situations):
  • “If you can get the majority to banish someone, it’s honestly not that hard. It sets a dangerous precedent.” — Nick ([80:21])
  • Crystal: “I’m surprised OC’s veterans collectively refused to film with someone. That’s unusual; more probably happened behind the scenes.” ([78:54])
• Housewives negotiation is a bluff (“Housewives will always show up for filming, no matter the posturing.” — Brittany, [81:18])
• Favorite/Least Favorite trends in reality TV:
  • Brittany: “TLC is killing the game—messy, unhinged, like classic Bravo. What I hate is reality TV that feels too performative, people trying to get screen time instead of playing for real stakes.” ([82:52])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On toxic mom groups:

“When you’re not included, it reflects on your child, and it’s so painful… It starts when you’re a child, and then you become a parent, and then you do that to other moms...”
— Crystal Kung Minkoff ([04:01])

On reality TV social climate:

“At the end of the day, everyone is competing... Most people are saying nice things to your face and talking shit behind your back.”
— Nick Viall ([09:12])

Reality TV existential trap:

“A lot of people [are] too famous to get a real job, but not famous enough to make enough money to support their career.”
— Nick ([12:19])

On The Housewife’s Code:

“Production is the first to get criticized, the last people that get thanked.”
— Nick ([22:15])

Brittany on The Traitors’ mob mentality:

“If someone’s willing to throw out a name, it’s easier to just sit back and let them take the heat… It’s anybody but me.”
— Brittany Haynes ([37:13])

On performative villains:

“He’s not even a good villain. He’s just running around and yelling…”
— Brittany, on Michael Rapaport ([44:08])

Crystal on real Housewives authenticity:

“You want more, but I’d rather have my integrity than be a bad Housewife just for drama.”
— Crystal Kung Minkoff ([74:17])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:33–07:56]: Crystal Kung Minkoff on toxic mom groups, LA scene, and exclusion.
• [09:12–12:19]: Nick’s “Game of Thrones” metaphor; reality TV’s dark competitive side.
• [13:07–18:34]: The Ben Affleck–Lisa Barlow “friendship” segment.
• [18:34–22:26]: Carlos King’s Heather Gay commentary, production & ethical lines.
• [27:55–59:52]: Brittany Haynes deep dive on The Traitors, gameplay, and reality TV as a social experiment.
• [60:03–73:56]: RHOBH recap; Housewife etiquette; fake drama; fourth-wall constraints.
• [75:56–84:52]: Cast collusion, precedent, and Brittany’s reality TV takes.

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Conclusion

This episode is a stellar intersection of reality TV analysis, inside baseball, and sharp-witted social psychology. Crystal, Brittany, and the regular panel offer a masterclass on why certain personalities succeed or implode on television—whether it’s the schoolyard politics of LA’s mom cliques or the Machiavellian alliances of The Traitors and Housewives. Listeners walk away entertained and with a refreshing sense that TV fame and exclusion aren’t so different from the everyday games people play.

For more on The Traitors S4, Housewives drama, and authentic dialogue in reality TV, check The Viall Files every week and follow Brittany Haynes’ Patreon for in-depth recaps.

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Transcript

[Nick]

The Vile Files is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are all things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

[Mayra Amit]

A mochi moment from Sadie, who writes, I'm not crying. You're crying. This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP one.

[Crystal Minkoff]

He understood and I felt supported, not judged.

[Mayra Amit]

I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy. Thanks, Sadie. I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com Sadie is a Mochi member, compensated for her story.

[Brittany Haynes]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another electric episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap edition. I'm your home. I'm your homeboy.

[Angie K.]

Your homeboy.

[Nick]

I'm your homeboy. I'm your host, Nick, joined by my.

[Mayra Amit]

Just keep it wife.

[Nick]

Just wonderful.

[Brittany Haynes]

Just wife.

[Nick]

Just gorgeous.

[Crystal Minkoff]

And we're also joined by beautiful, Gorgeous.

[Mayra Amit]

Also joined by Crystal Minkoff, our angel.

[Nick]

One half of the extraordinary show Humble Brag. But she is with us to talk about all things life, reality tv, the dinner we had, mom groups, friend groups, everything.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Ex friend groups.

[Nick]

Do you want to. Have you been asked about this at nauseam?

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yes, but I just, I get a lot of dms. Like, I've been getting a lot of. Okay, I'll tell you now I realize, like, people genuinely like the housewives and. Or any one, I guess when they say, oh, leaking stories. The amount of DMs I've gotten from like, those, you know, source, whatever. Like, oh, you can be a private source. We won't name it, but if you. And then it's like, if you have any beef, like, we can let it out without it being you. I'm like. I don't even respond. I'm like, first of all, because I don't have bees with any of the girls, but, like, I just can't believe that actually happens. And I can see it being very tempting to people who do. Who want to, like, get nasty shit out there. It's shocking.

[Angie K.]

Are you saying they're recruiting?

[Crystal Minkoff]

No, they're like, want to know the tea of, like, stories of like. I'm assuming you're talking about Ashley. Tis the little thing or the mom group thing.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So is there other friend group mom groups that are.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Well, it was like my ex friending group but like, you know, look, la mom scene is big, but it's small. I said like I went to preschool with these. I didn't go to preschool with the girl. Like we're moms at the same preschool. We don't go back like 40 years. So all our kids all went to preschool together at different ages. Everyone has different kids at different ages. And um, so I just kind of like this is a group that I know some much better than others. But it happens. I mean, obviously I try to get tea for myself and I am now on a group chat with my friends who are like, we're all like one step away. So we're just laughing at the. It's insane. The whole thing is insane. I just don't know why I actually did it. But if it's cathartic for her, then great. Like I think it's awesome. Like whatever you want to do. But I don't know what happened.

[Mayra Amit]

Did you see that? There's now like Hollywood studios are circling the idea of like making this into a film.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Well, I could have given my story two years ago. So like, it's kind of old news now.

[Nick]

Would we rather have a film or would you want like a 10 episode? No, it's series.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Totally.

[Mayra Amit]

It should.

[Crystal Minkoff]

And it could be like really dark, you know, like murderous murder. Yeah, yeah, you gotta have that set.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yeah.

[Crystal Minkoff]

But it's a good story. I mean like, I don't think it's unique to here. You know, I mean like, it's just become so big because there's famous people involved. But actually this is just indicative of like, I think a lot of mom stories and being left out. And I, you know, I was telling my friends, like, like, why would, you know, who cares? Like just walk out the group and like, it's different when it comes to your children. Your children just add such a layer and intensity and a protection that like when you're, when you feel like your kid's not. If you're not included, it reflects on your child and, and it's so painful. So like I understand all those small moments and you have to take these lessons as a mom to teach your kids, like to not be exclusive and you know, but moms still do it. I mean, Max is in middle school and the moms are still doing that. Like who, who they're picking up to go to the mall and da, da da. And you see it on and then they're Snapchatting each other and it's like, it's so mean.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yeah.

[Mayra Amit]

Cause it's like the moms are getting excluded, but then that also means, like, their children are also getting excluded. So now the kids are like, why can't I go with social media?

[Nick]

Oh, my God, that makes me so, like.

[Crystal Minkoff]

And the moms are doing it, so the kids are hanging out with more popular kids. It's insane. So it's not. Like I said, it's not unique. It just starts very early. It starts when you're a child, and then you become a parent, and then when you do that to other moms, it's just. It's very tough watching it. So I do feel for everybody, but, like, it is very gossipy right now out there.

[Mayra Amit]

Like, who do we think is going to play Ashley Tisdell?

[Crystal Minkoff]

I think Ashley should play herself.

[Nick]

Mandy Moore plays Ashley Tisdale, and Ashley Tisdale plays Mandy Moore.

[Crystal Minkoff]

By the way, if the bigger group takes this and runs, they'll really profit off it. You know, if they really play, they have someone else playing Ashley. And, like, you know. But no, it's. I mean. I mean, we laugh about it, but actually, it's kind of. It's really sad, actually.

[Nick]

But actually, when you paint it in that picture, yeah, it. I can see how it gets mean and dark and. Yeah, I can see how parents have a hard time separating. Like, the drama they feel, their feelings, or the. In the what and how their kids are affected. And. Yeah, that's. I can see how it gets really cloudy.

[Crystal Minkoff]

And by the way, it's fast. It starts in preschool with, like, birthday parties. You know, like, at our preschool, there was a requirement that if you had a birthday party for your kid, everyone, the class had to be included. Or, like, all girls, if it's like a kind of a girl party or something. But it had to be very inclusionary because it's so early. And, you know, that's the kind of age where, you know, you're sitting there and, mommy, me and you guys will experience this. Like, the baby. Your baby's sitting on the ground, and everyone's kind of looking at each other like, who knows who and stuff. It just. It is what it is. And then you kind of naturally are drawn to people, and that's human nature. That's normal to create friendships. But, you know, as they get older, maybe one of the kids is a little bit, like, bites another kid. I'm like, ugh, get that kid out of here. Of course, I'm telling you, it sounds insane, but, like, then that kid is kind of ousted a little Bit not included in the mommy, you know, the music classes anymore. And then that makes you feel isolated. And it's just like, I can only tell this to moms right now. And I think the first time I met you guys, I was like, mommy, like, this is my life, right? Yeah, it changes every day. And if it's not your kid today, it will be your kid tomorrow. And just give people some grace, because when it happens to you and your kid is the bad kid of the day or the week, you want people to give you the benefit of the doubt and your child the benefit of the doubt. So lead with kindness, lead with empathy, because everyone and you yourself as a human make mistakes. Right. And you want people to give you the benefit of the doubt. So that's. That's my. That's my PSA for this.

[Nick]

I was hanging out with a dear friend of mine who is a reality TV producer, and we were talking traders, which we'll obviously get into later this episode, please, because we also have Brittany Hayes joining us soon in this episode. If you don't know who Brittany is, she is of season three fame, one of the finalists of last season. She made it pretty far anyway. She has a lot to say, and we'll get into all the nitty gritty of Traders. But we were talking traders, and he was. He was just talking about the reality TV bubble as a whole and kind of jokingly said, you guys are all just like. And he said, you guys. And so he kind of like, just included me, but just like any. Any person he's ever known to be on reality TV or the influencer space. And he referred to it as like a Game of Thrones kind of, like, competition. And it was like, he made valid points where it's just like the. And hearing you talk about mom groups and just like the, you know, kids putting out Snapchats. Just the hustle. Like, at the end of the day, if you get this opportunity to be a part of a reality TV show and have any, like, aspirations for life outside of that show, whether you're influencing the followers, the, you know, campaign, you know, like, the opportunities, the trips, all those things. At the end of the day, everyone is competing, right? Everyone sees the opportunities that other people get. You know, what do they say? Like, comparison is a thief of joy. And there is absolute, absolutely no joy in this space that, like, where truly everyone is competing. And even when you see people have success, few people are actually happy for you, and most people are saying nice things to your face and talking shit behind your back. Because at the end of the day, if you have success, most people are saying. Saying to themselves into their team and to their managers, why isn't that me? Why didn't that happen to me? Why didn't the next. That opportunity. And it's such. It's kind of like when hearing him speak about it, I mean, it said a lot of truth. It was. There was a lot of truth behind it. And it's kind of this dark reality of this world we live in.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Totally. I mean, I think that anyone that's considering joining the space, if you struggle with things like social media, on a simple level, fomo, if it affects your mental health, like, it is an expl. It's exponentially worse. This is exactly what it is, but sort of on a massive platform. And it's so. Even my son Max is like, he. He doesn't. He's not on Snapchat and. But he knows what's happening because he's texting with his friends. You know, he literally said to me yesterday, I'm not on it for my mental health. And he's 13 years old, and I'm like, great, like, protect yourself. I'm like, if someone's not nice to you, lean into the kids who are. You know, it's like a very simple life story. And, you know, but it's hard because it's so in your face all the time. And I think that that's why he struggled with me being on a reality show. I just think it was. He felt like my mental health was suffering. But I think that there's a lot of lessons to be learned on the positive, you know, Like, I feel like I'm a kinder person because I was on Housewives, honestly, like, I feel like I'm a stronger person with stronger boundaries, but I can do it with. With more empathy now. Yeah, I know. I just feel like I've become better because of it. I don't know. Everyone does, but, yeah, I feel like.

[Mayra Amit]

When you're on the receiving end, you realize, like, how much it does affect you. So that way, when, like, it's someone else's turn, you're very much like, no, like, give them grace, give them love, because it's like. You know what it's like.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yep.

[Mayra Amit]

So it's. I. I love that your son said that.

[Nick]

You know, it's also, though, it's interesting because you're in this unique position, Krista, where you were successful before, you're a housewife, you continue to be successful in life. And a lot of aspects of Your life outside of Housewives, obviously Rob as well. And so, like, you guys truly, by definition, didn't need it, you know, and so you had the luxury, you had the ability to kind of, like, try it out, see what it was like, decide it wasn't for you and be fine. It gets really dark when you. When people are committed to this space and they know. My manager has this great line, which is so true, where it's just like, a lot of people in reality TV are too famous to get a real job, but not famous enough to make enough money to support their career.

[Crystal Minkoff]

And it's this really dark under 8%.

[Nick]

It's this really dark space that a lot of people kind of get stuck in. And it's a mind fuck, and it's challenging, and people have to be very careful. Yeah. And then you see this kind of internal justification for the, you know, the talking shit, the, you know, the kind of Game of Thrones of, like, trying to, you know, move up in. In your world, in this space. It's quite fascinating.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Well, when I was on Beverly Hills, Rob would always say, oh, it's squid games in high heels.

[Brittany Haynes]

True.

[Crystal Minkoff]

He's like, you guys are partners until there's a situation in which your best friend is now your enemy and you have to. One of you have to die. And it's always like that, every single scene. And he's like, but you just all look pretty doing it. That's how he just described it.

[Nick]

Well, speaking of friend groups, it looks like Lisa Barlow is unfortunately not a part of Ben Affleck. And this was awesome.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Okay.

[Nick]

Ben Affleck's friend group.

[Crystal Minkoff]

All I saw is that Angie K. Responded to that, but I didn't know what she was responding to.

[Nick]

It all seems very silly. I mean, Ben was asked in a recent interview promoting his new movie, the Rip. We watched it on Friday. Pretty good.

[Mayra Amit]

On Netflix.

[Nick]

On Netflix. And, you know, he was asked, like, do you. Have you met Lisa? Do you know Lisa? And he was very gracious because he was like, I don't want to get this person in trouble, but I don't particularly, like, remember, but we possibly could have met.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

He had no idea who she was.

[Nick]

He obviously had no idea. But he answered it in a way that was very, I thought, generous, where.

[Mayra Amit]

It'S like, of course I don't want to embarrass her. I don't want to get her in trouble. But, like, I do not know this woman.

[Nick]

Yeah. Lisa, clap back.

[Brittany Haynes]

Well, Nick, what he also said was.

[Nick]

I haven't been in Utah in, like, eight, nine, 10 years.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

And the picture of the two of them is for sure from, like, 10 years ago.

[Nick]

Yeah, sure. The. The way Ben Affleck is being roped in to Utah in reality tv. From Jen Affleck's, like, insistence.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Lisa Barlow.

[Angie K.]

Yeah, Jen Affleck.

[Nick]

From about being related to Ben Affleck to Lisa Barlo saying, like, we're best friends. The way I really feel for Ben, you know. Did you get. And in a recent interview, he was talking about AI. Ben Affleck is an incredibly intelligent person. And it always seems to surprise people when speaks with a level of authority, which he often does on things like filmmaking. Like, he's an incredibly talented actor and director and producer. And it's weird that the Internet has this, like. So it's. So many people on the Internet have this one image of Ben Affleck in their mind, and that's, like, him, like, smoking a cigarette, looking depressed outside of.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Like, Dunkin Donuts, you know, he's depressed because he understands.

[Nick]

You know.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I think it's the JLo effect. I think once he got with JLo, he sort of became sort of pop culture fodder, you know, whereas, like, before he was Ben Affleck. Very legit. And he is. I mean, he's an incredible talent. He's brilliant. And, yes, I do. But it's so funny. Even myself, I think of him with a cigarette, which is terrible. I don't want to. But that's what, like the bully on.

[Nick]

Mallrats, you know, it's like.

[Mayra Amit]

And, like, him and Jen, like, you know, like, getting back together, getting remarried, then getting a divorce, but then now being seen outside of restaurants, like, canoodling. Like, you two are just like the rest of us.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

As human beings just, you know, want some love in their life.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

I think my favorite. Not my favorite part, but the most insane part of this headline to me is that Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are in a movie together. Two giant movie stars are in a movie on Netflix together. And the headline that comes out about it is about the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. And I think because Ben and Matt are such smart people in the entertainment industry, I wonder what existential, like, fear.

[Crystal Minkoff]

That brings to them.

[Mayra Amit]

I wonder how many new people watched their movies since.

[Crystal Minkoff]

That's why.

[Nick]

Because of Lisa Barlow.

[Brittany Haynes]

Right.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Yeah. People knew. Didn't know that movie was coming out until the Lisa Barlow question that was asked.

[Mayra Amit]

But also, she said south by Southwest, the Accountant too. And it was a great movie and party. This was.

[Angie K.]

Well, this Was recent and friend of sh. Oh, wait, what?

[Mayra Amit]

What? Didn't the accountant to come out, like.

[Angie K.]

Recent, like a year ago, because we had Daniella Pineda on who was in it. She just came to Lisa Barlow's defense with this picture of herself at the party at Lisa's event with Lisa and said, I need to stand up for my girl. Ben was here.

[Nick]

Like, first of all, there is no doubt that Ben probably has face blindness. And I say that as who just, like, meets a lot of people for work and just like.

[Brittany Haynes]

Exactly.

[Nick]

People always say, like, I'm bad with names, but I'm good with faces. I'm not good with either anymore. I. You know, I'm not particularly amazing at being present, period. You got a lot going on. I imagine that Ben Affleck is even busier with his exceptionally, like, you know, extraordinary life of being a father and having a couple ex wives and being a producer and being in a couple blockbusters. And it's just like, I'm sure he went to this event. I'm sure he was. He was told to show up. He probably had no idea where he was other than that was like, hey, man, you got to do this for this movie. And he was like, okay. And I'm sure Lisa was there, and I'm sure they took a picture. They might even have had a conversation. He just had no idea.

[Crystal Minkoff]

You know, they just shuttle you around, like, event to event to event for press, and, I mean, they took a picture. Is that what it is?

[Angie K.]

They didn't.

[Nick]

Well, this is a picture that was old.

[Angie K.]

Yeah.

[Mayra Amit]

Not this.

[Angie K.]

Not this recent Accountant two Screen.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

I bet she's so mad they didn't get a picture at this Accountant two screen screaming.

[Nick]

What would be worse, though, that they had a picture and Ben still doesn't remember.

[Crystal Minkoff]

That's crazy.

[Nick]

But, you know, I don't. It's not. It's not even a rip on Lisa. It's just like, he just.

[Crystal Minkoff]

It's not rip on nobody.

[Nick]

A fan of, like, we're. We're shocked that.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

I think he would like it if he watched it.

[Crystal Minkoff]

It's just news, and it's funny.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yeah.

[Crystal Minkoff]

And Ben, you know what? It's probably like you said, they probably got a couple more eyeballs in that film, so they should be happy.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Well, speaking of Salt Lake, did you guys see what Carlos King said about Heather Gay on his podcast?

[Nick]

Carlos King, friend of show. Yeah, friend of show.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Carlos King.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I love Carlos.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Gang, Heather Gay is the most dangerous housewife that's on television. When she said production could have given her the black eye. That was the day I said, there's nothing I have for you anymore. As a producer, as someone who grew up in this business from PA to where I am now, we production. We in production are sacrificing our livelihood, leaving our families to go to a state we don't live in. So when Heather made that black eye comment, I said, oh, I know who you are. And she has proven every season that I am right.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Did she actually say that?

[Unidentified Male Guest]

There was a period of time. It was kind of. I believe it was at the reunion too, where Heather was being very, like, elusive, cagey, cagey about the black eyes. She was like, maybe. I felt maybe it was production. I don't know.

[Nick]

She said production when she was on her book tour. That's where that came from. So it's like just each part of promotion, she would just deflect to some other different. Which is, you know, definitely a choice because we are talking about, like, something that is a crime, like assault is illegal. Carlos, the show is so fascinating because, you know, there's so many people who are obviously fans of these shows. You know, at this show, we obviously try to come from a level of perspective of, like, people who have, like, we either interview a lot of people on reality TV who have lived this experience, like you, Crystal or myself, who has been on tv, produced it, you know, been involved in it, and then come from that perspective all. Carlos is a reality TV producer. He has incredible perspective from a side of the show that so many of these fans are fascinated with. And it's a side of the TV making business that honestly, we probably have. You have the least amount of information. Many of these producers are signing these hugely long NDAs and can't talk about kind of anything of behind the scenes. So for Carlos to share his insight, it comes with a lot of weight and a lot of perspective because I think, you know, as fans, when we're talking about this show, it's easy to reference the, like, what's the. The Bat, you know, Unreal show and things like that, where these producers, you know, again, I've often referenced, like so many fans think of them as like three evil wizards in a tower, like, you know, coming up with their evil story plan. Like, many of these people are just like, you know, it's just a job. You know, they show up for work. You know, you have line producers, you have date producers. People who are like, their only job is to make sure that, like, the trip these women go on, you know, are that they look Great. And it's, they're looking, working with tourism boards and things like that. But like, yeah, for, for Heather to say that is to put an accusation of assault on, on someone's livelihood. And if anyone believed that, you know, if that went anywhere that that could be dangerous for, for the people involved that it's an interesting perspective. I believe Andy Cohen also said the.

[Brittany Haynes]

Same thing during the reunion.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Yeah.

[Nick]

He told her that that was like dangerous thing to do and she has since said that it was Jen. So I mean we have a different story.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Production is a very tough. It's not just reality. You know, I've been with Rob for 22 years. Like I've been on film sets with him, you know, long term. And these people really. And I see these people, the production, they truly, they leave their families for a very long time. It's a very tough job. It's a thankless job. And you know, I know for Beverly Hills I just, I loved everyone production and they would never like, it's such a crazy thing to say. Like they really, they're like your people, you know, when you're like when you're traveling and like you wake up in the morning before you put, you know, they're micing you and it's like, how'd you sleep? And like they're your friends, you know. And I just think, I hope that was a really, just terrible slip up. But I think that she should, you.

[Nick]

Know, producers are the first to get criticized, the last people that get thanked. You know, I always said I've never, I've never heard a reality TV star be like, yeah, that wasn't my line. That was fed to me.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Right.

[Nick]

You know, especially when they look. Well, only in situations where they look great when it's, it's situations where they look bad. I've heard that a million times from Cass. So yeah, I think Carlos has a really interesting perspective. Angie K. Commented on the interview. What did she say?

[Angie K.]

Angie commented on Lisa.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Oh, that's on Lisa and Ben.

[Angie K.]

But she said that Ben didn't know Lisa but he recognized Celia, her dog.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I love Angie.

[Nick]

We finally got Angie K. On the Vile Files and it's an episode that was so fun. So just interesting and fascinating. Iconic, iconic, honest. And that is this Wednesday. Angie K. Everybody, for a going deeper. You are not going to want to miss right smack and the dab in the middle of this reunion. It could not be a better time to have Angie K. With us. So be excited. Also, don't forget Vile Files plus is available and it's ad free. Wherever you get your podcast, you can now listen to Valves Episodes ad free. In addition to getting all your favorite updates from your favorite Ask Nick episodes. Also your Deep Dive where we dive real deep on all your favorite TV shows that we're talking about like Traders and Real Housewives of Salt Lake City and so much more. And your pop culture roundups. Plus we're coming up with some new and exciting content, so get it while it's hot. It's free to sign up. You just go to vilefiles.com to do that. All right. Up next, we have Brittany Haynes from season three of Traders to help us break down all the nonsense going on in the castle. You are not going to want to miss that breakdown.

[Mayra Amit]

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[Nick]

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[Mayra Amit]

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[Nick]

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[Brittany Haynes]

Hi, how are you?

[Nick]

I'm doing well. How are you?

[Brittany Haynes]

A little, a little jet lagged, but other than that.

[Nick]

Where are you flying from?

[Brittany Haynes]

Hawaii, Family vacation. So we are, we are a little bit on the struggle bus, but we're making it okay.

[Nick]

Well, we appreciate you jet lagging, all taking the time to break down these past couple episodes of Traders. I'm curious, does it again, a little fomo? Is it like watching this season? Do you, Castle, are you just like, thank God I don't have to eat or drink that food anymore?

[Brittany Haynes]

Definitely a little bit of fomo. Yeah. Because it's such a cool experience. I love the way that they. It's so camp, you know, it's so like you're so deep into it when the show comes on. It's so immersive. I think they do an incredible job of that. And you. I find this on any reality show, you forget all the bad stuff, like after it's done, after a certain period of time. It's just the fun stuff that stays in your mind and lives there and resonates. And so of course watching it, you're like, oh, that would be so fun to be. It's not fun at all when you're doing it. But it's the rear view mirror that it all looks so great.

[Nick]

What was more unfun, like the challenges in the cold and muddy waters or the round table where you feel like you're being attacked by your peers?

[Brittany Haynes]

Definitely the Le Bo. Both of those things are very not fun. But the anxiety, I have anxiety in my general day to day life anyway. And so it was on another level on Traders, just constant. I was a faithful, which is the worst. And you're just constantly worried about what you're saying, who you're saying it to, if you're gonna die that night. Like, there's just no, as a faithful for me at least, there's just no rest from, you know, the paranoia and the stress. And that is very difficult to live with. There's no point in time that you really feel like you have an upper hand or an advantage or that you're going to be okay. You're just like constantly on pins and.

[Nick]

Needles I'm curious, Crystal and Brittany, what you. What your thoughts are on this, But I'm watching. Natalie and I were watching this, and I'm like, man, this show really is just like a microcosm of just, like how people kind of participate online in terms of like, just quickly throw it out. An accusation. It doesn't have to make sense the way people jump on that accusation. Just feeling like as long as it's not me.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yeah, anybody but me.

[Nick]

And the way people will jump on an idea. You have people on this show convincing themselves that they have superhuman powers.

[Brittany Haynes]

It's early on. The thing is that we're so early in the season still that it's at this point, they have nothing to go off of. Right. It's grasping at straws. And so if you hear anybody's name, you're just glad that it's not yours. Like, you don't wanna be one of the first people to go. So you hear anyone's name. It doesn't even have to make sense. All you need is someone to deliver to you some plausible deniability in the event that it is wrong. And you. You roll with it. Right. Like, I had no basis for voting out Wells week one. It was just like Robin said, wells. And I'm like, yeah, probably I agree with you. You don't actually have anything to go off of. You're fully grasping and straws. And the difference I think is. Or what I see emerging early is to me, it's more fascinating who is willing to show up and make the accusations and then how they react when they're wrong. So you have, like, the Eric who's like, I heard a laugh and it was you. But then he's wrong, and so then he's like, profusely apologizing. He's like, so sorry, you guys. I really thought it was her last left. Whereas you have Colton, who's also wrong every single time, doesn't stop to apologize, and is just like, I'm ready to throw up. My next theory, though. Like, what do you guys think? I know I was extremely wrong about that, but let's go into the next one.

[Mayra Amit]

I feel like he never even has a theory. He's just like. It's just. It's.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I think he's just playing the game. He just wants to get rid of people, and he doesn't really care who it is. So I'm gonna plug. So on humble brag this week, we have mj, who came on. Who came gave a lot of behind the scenes. I don't Think she was allowed to. But I asked her about this because I was like, I. I'm watching Ron, who is getting such a different response than to Colton. And you know, the way MJ described is very much like a popularity contest in the beginning because you have nothing to go off of. So it's like, who do you vibe with? And I think this is sort of what we were talking about earlier today about, like, you know, like, connecting with people, popularity, letting, you know, getting rid of people in groups. And I think that that's what's happening. But almost like, what else are you supposed to go on? I mean, Brittany, I assume that that's what it feels like. You're just like, you don't know anybody yet and you're not connected to anybody yet. Because I think the game starts very early. Right. And you guys kick people off like, within.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yes.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Every day.

[Brittany Haynes]

And if someone wants to play fast and loose like the way that Colton is playing and they want to just trash their game that way, fine. You're like, okay, you know, I'll let you. I'll sit here quietly and let you take all the heat because you're going to eventually suffer the repercussions of. Of throwing out these, like, baseless accusations. It's gonna eventually come back and make you look suspicious. Right.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Like, so you think it's a bad game.

[Brittany Haynes]

I think it's a terrible gameplay. But in my. So the only way that I can make it make sense is that he just doesn't really care how well he does in the game. For him, it's more about a, capitalizing on the screen time and B, being that person who is like, you know, the. The more loud and the leader of the pack. Right. Like, like, in my mind, he doesn't actually care how well he does in the game as long as he emerges as, like, the castle leader. That's more his angle because in terms of just trying to win this game, that is a terrible strategic choice. Like, you never want to be the loudest one.

[Nick]

Do you think, Britney, in any way this. This game could be representative of how people kind of carry themselves out in the world or the kind of the game of thrones kind of universe that all of us in a weird way kind of operate in with is the opportunities that or don't come our way and how, you know, people on reality TV influencers compete 100%.

[Brittany Haynes]

And that's what I feel like is so fascinating about it. He can just say these things and then not even, you know, how, like, if you're in the fifth grade and you raise your hand and you say the wrong answer, then you're humiliated and you just like put your head down and sink into your desk for the entire rest of the class. Not Colton Underwood. He's like his hand just shoots up every time, you know what I mean? Like he is so self assured and so confident that he doesn't even feel within his own self the need to be like, eh, maybe I sit this one out. Like I was wrong those other times. So I don't know, maybe I do some reflection or think a little bit harder. Think a little harder. No. And like Tom Sandoval would do this on our season all the time. But the difference was no one listened when Tom Sandal spouted his theories. Like when he was like trying to convince us that it was just whoever, you know, Dolores, we were like, okay, Tom, maybe go, go make another coffee and we'll reconvene. Like we weren't Listen. The difference is Colton is doing the same thing, but he has much more influence for whatever reason over the people in the castle.

[Nick]

The game he is playing is to essentially line everyone up and then quote, unquote, murder them regardless of if he thinks they're a faithful or traitor or not. Because at the end of the day it's just not him. And there's just a level of not caring about literally anyone else but himself in this situation. It broke my heart when Tiffany was like, I need this moment.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, and he had nothing to go on.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yeah, there's nothing to go on. Most of us, I would say from the gamer perspective, have a very like normal life outside of trying to be just on television or trying to make a career on TV or whatever. And so it does impact gamers differently I think. And that's kind of what she was speaking to is like she's a single mom trying to put her kid through college. She's not a traitor. You know, she hasn't done anything traitorous. And so he just makes these like fast and loose accusations and then doesn't even reflect, like, doesn't even feel the need to be like, my bad guys. Like, whoops. He's just like, so why do you.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Think people are still following him like after that happens? What, what draws some like a group like that to continue to follow someone?

[Nick]

Well, we're kind of getting into the muddy waters with, with the Colton story. And it's hard to talk about Colton without talking about Cassie from Bachelor. And obviously it's a story that's getting floated out There, and it's getting new oxygen. We've talked about it in the past, and quite frankly, I don't know if this is something Cassie wants her name kind of continue to be put out there. So out of respect, we're just not going to get into those details. But, like, it was a very dark situation, and it is complicated to talk about this casting without that being brought up, and I'll just leave it at that. But, like, the game playing itself is one where it's just, like, it's. It's really just kind of. It's so selfish and so, like, inconsiderate. Like, there's not even a thought to, like, how, you know, how could I help someone else and play the long game? How could. There's no. There's no, you know.

[Mayra Amit]

But that is a good question, Brittany. Why would people trust him again after.

[Brittany Haynes]

Being wrong as far as trusting him again, it's not necessarily that they do. It's that when there is someone who is willing to basically just be the one to throw it out there, that's easy for you to, as a faithful, take a backseat and be like, yeah, you take the heat for this. Like, I get to just exist another week. I get to just take it easy and not have to, you know, worry about putting my own voice out there. It's just like an easier way for them to nudge by day after day in the castle. I don't think it's even necessarily that they trust him, but again, it goes back to anybody but me. Right? Like, if he's gonna throw this out there, it's easier to just sit back and be like, yeah, sure. What he.

[Nick]

You saw how strong of a player Rob is when he said, you know, Eric, I've listened to your music, and he knows a note. I don't think for a second that Rob has listened to Eric's music. Maybe he has. I don't know. But, like, I think that is Rob doing the thing where he's just like, yeah, that's a really interesting. That's a great idea. I don't think Rob. Any of these ideas are great or interesting, but he's smart enough to agree with them. And to your point, Brittany, like, for Eric, Eric went from saying, I'm 99% sure I heard someone laugh. First of all, are you 99% sure a laugh is a laugh? Like, if you weren't 100% sure you heard a laugh, then what was it? And if it was such a faint sounding tone, and then he goes to the. And then he's at the round table, and he's like, I heard someone laugh, and I'm 99% sure it's Tiffany. So in his own mind, he convinced himself he was almost certain it was a laugh to he's certain it's a laugh, and now I'm certain it's Tiffany. And just, like, the cognitive dissonance of, like, just convincing yourself of this. As Michael Rappaport said, magic ears. That's the thing, you know, it's like, these people don't have magic ears. They're not the daredevil superhero that can, like, you know, close their eyes and, like, have, like, sound, you know, make them see things. But, like, it's fascinating how these cast people will, like, be so certain of, and the other people just sitting around the table being like, yeah, for sure. No, he definitely has. He has magic ears, for sure.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Brittany I would imagine that, like, you almost have to do that in order to feel okay to kick someone out of the house. Like, I don't think I could just throw out names without feeling confident in some way, because I need to feel resolved that I did this for a certain reason. Like, I heard that person. That person has to be a traitor, because if I'm faithful, I don't to want. Want to just kill everybody because, you know, so it's like, I think you almost have to convince yourself, even if it's wrong, which is fucked up about the whole thing.

[Brittany Haynes]

But I would imagine that totally it's confirmation bias, right? Like, once someone says something to you, you then start to see everything through that lens. Like, so if somebody says it's Tiffany now you think back, and you're like, well, you know, what actually makes sense now that you say that? And so then you start looking at it through this confirmation bias lens, and everything does add up. And you can be so sure, like, you can be so certain about something that's so wrong because of that. And, like, in this case, you know, Colton comes in and he's got all these reasons against her. But the real, like, kiss of death was the Eric thing. Because if anybody was sort of on the fence, then they are now handed the ability to go, oh, well, I just listened to Eric because here he comes with this evidence that he's, you know, presenting. And that's all you needed to really jump on board if you were, like, 50, 50. And it's totally just confirmation bias. When somebody says something, you really start to believe it.

[Nick]

Brittany, have you ever seen someone successfully talk? Because it sounds like when you're in that situation and your name's being thrown around that, like, there's nothing you can do and you're. You're almost guaranteed an exit. Have you seen someone successfully, you know, maybe. Maybe it was boss and Rob, but like someone who likes, like was about to get killed and was able to literally turn the table, so to speak, and convince people that it wasn't them because it, it seems almost impossible.

[Brittany Haynes]

It is almost impossible, especially long term. Like, maybe you can squeak by that day if you. If so and so has a little bit more evidence than you. But essentially you are like from that point on kind of on a list, right? Of like, well, let's, let's revisit this theory. So even if you make it. It so far along, like in my season we had the three coffin thing and it was like the other survivors from. We decided that definitely someone in the coffins was a traitor, by the way. They weren't, but so a couple people got to go for a while, but it was like, well, we got to keep revisiting the coffin theory, you know, so it does seem like even if it buys you some time, it's hard, it's really difficult, impossible maybe to come back from in the longevity of the entire game.

[Mayra Amit]

I mean, I am shocked that Ron is still. I feel like every single round table it's been him and he's. He's scathed by every time. Especially after him being like, Dorinda, I want to know nothing about you or your family.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I feel so bad for him because he was so right about Portia. Portia said those things and somehow, I.

[Brittany Haynes]

Don'T know, literally said those things.

[Crystal Minkoff]

And I. And then they just like want to kill him. I feel so bad for Ron. I mean, I just think he's just socially not connected and I think that's why they focus on him. But Bri, I had a question. So when you watch the edit, right, we're watching as an audience, sort of the collective of how people get to where they are. But in the house, is it actually like that or is it more broad or people like other names are coming out or is it really focused on like one or two people that day?

[Brittany Haynes]

I would say, like within social groups or clicks, there's probably more names, right? But it does seem to be like one or two names that really make it like cast wide, like through every single group or dynamic. And basically the, you know, the collective kind of sticks to, well, these are the couple of names and who is going to present their case at the round table. And so Most of the time, you kind of know before you go into a banishment what's going to be brought up, who's going to say what. It's, like, not very likely that you're going to get surprised in there by what names come out. It's just that somebody has to be willing to kind of be the. Be the voice for the. The collective. We're see. And you see the same people do that multiple times.

[Mayra Amit]

What are your thoughts on Michael Rapport?

[Brittany Haynes]

I just find him insufferable and annoying and, like a distraction to everything else that's happening in the game. And I agree, I agree.

[Mayra Amit]

He's just so out of the box. Like, I'm the sexiest, the dopest. Like, who says to talk about being.

[Brittany Haynes]

You know, like, talk about who's wronger than Colton Underwood.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I agree with Brainy. I find I. I think everyone needs. Every show needs kind of the villain, the annoying guy. He's insufferable and he's painful.

[Brittany Haynes]

He's not even like a good villain. Like, a good villain is, like, behind the scenes, quiet. There's some minutia to unpack. He's just like, abrasive and loud and annoying with no redeeming qualities. Otherwise, he's not contributing to anything like major drama other than he runs around yelling. But. But not in a way that's like he's uncovering something or he's solving something or. No, he's just running around screaming because.

[Mayra Amit]

Everyone'S been against him.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yeah. Look within. If. If everyone is against you, that might be a moment where you reflect where one takes a step back and says, why? Why is that? Maybe because I. Maybe the problem, other than to gorgeous food off the side of my plate, I never stopped yelling.

[Mayra Amit]

Maybe that's the problem scene I have ever seen was the way he ate that bowl of eggs.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Ugh.

[Brittany Haynes]

You. You asked me, like, about the bad food. Who's calling it bad? Michael Rapoport can't get enough. He literally has to forego utensils to shovel, shovel in as much as he could. I think that he would disagree.

[Nick]

Did you like the food?

[Brittany Haynes]

Not particularly. I was not Michael Rapoport shoving it down my gullet.

[Nick]

Of the faithful that remain who think are some of the strongest contenders for going the distance, you know who has.

[Brittany Haynes]

Impressed me the most? I would say, as a faithful, is Dorinda, because I would have assumed that she would be targeted so quickly for no other reason than thinking, like, production. And if production brings someone back, you're going to immediately be top of mind for me, and especially in the early weeks, a lot of what you're doing when you're uncovering is thinking, like, production. Right. Like, who would Alan choose? Who makes sense for Alan to choose? Anybody who gets brought back, I'm immediately going to be, like, suspicious of. So the fact that Dorinda is getting no heat and has placed herself so well amongst the group of faithfuls that she's really, like, kind of fading into the background a little bit, I've been really impressed by. I. So I think that she has the potential to go the distance.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I actually, I don't necessarily disagree, but I feel like with Dorinda, like, I would not assume that they would have made her a traitor because she was coming back. And I think that her overt, like, joy of making it every week and is making her very lovable to the cast. So they know she's a faithful.

[Brittany Haynes]

Wouldn't that be even funnier, though, if she was a traitor and she was doing well?

[Crystal Minkoff]

She was good. Yeah.

[Brittany Haynes]

For a walk, like, down the Runway every breakfast. But she was actually a traitor. That would be even better.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Brilliant. But I. You could just feel she's faithful. She can't hide her faithful.

[Angie K.]

She's too happy to be here.

[Mayra Amit]

Yeah.

[Crystal Minkoff]

She's too happy, and everyone's, like, cheering for her, and so she's gonna run with that sort of. That kind of thing.

[Brittany Haynes]

Exactly what I would take to the roundtable and be like, it's definitely Dorinda.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Okay, Colton, I'm so happy we're not figuring it out.

[Nick]

I saw a tweet, Brittany, that said, every morning, the last people who come in are clear. You know, the people who aren't murdered who seem to be last to the door are always the people that were, like, on a short list of people that the traitors were considering murdering. And the question was posed in the tweet where, like, how does no one pick up on this?

[Brittany Haynes]

100%. We've picked up on that. Like, I'm like, who's. Who's. No one. Because as far as I know, everyone knows that to be true. And it is a fact. Right. That's, again, goes back to thinking, like, production. We know that production. They're making a television show. Correct. And so they want that moment of you walking in at breakfast to be the grand reveal of. Of, you know, how every episode is put together. And so always, like, the last couple of people in, it was between the person who goes and them. Right. This happens over and over and over. Now there are some one offs Here and there where that's not necessarily true. But for the most part that is how it works. We're very much onto that. And again, it's not being spoken about because they don't want to like break that fourth wall. Right. Sometimes there has even been evidence against a person that is brought out like at the banishment table that is kind of production related. None of that's ever going to make air because they don't want anything that has to do with production to lead anywhere within the game. So we just pretend like that never happened. Even though it is very well known amongst the cast sometimes that sometimes production elements do come into how you vote or who you're thinking or you know, if you have evidence against a person. But it's never going to be addressed on the show. Show. And same thing with coming in last at breakfast. They're never going to let you go to confessional and be like, oh, I was second to last. I'm traders must have really been thinking about me. Even though if you're game savvy at all, you absolutely know that's the case.

[Nick]

I, I imagine they've probably thrown in a couple traders to come in last. Two to maybe throw people off sometimes.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yes, they will, they will put traders in the last group sometimes. Trust me. We're, we're reading into all of it.

[Nick]

Heard it. Understood. Do you feel like the traders are playing a perfect game?

[Brittany Haynes]

Do I feel like they're playing a perfect game? That would be. I don't even know what necessarily a perfect game would look like. I think that Rob is doing a really great job, but he also has the benefit of not being someone that people would assume was a traitor anyway. So he is in a really, really good position. I feel like Rena is really, really loud as a trader and probably doesn't have. Unfortunately for her, just based on like thinking like production alone, I don't think that she has a lot of longevity left in her because people are going to assume that she's a traitor at some point and she is being like in my opinion, a little bit, a little bit too obvious as a traitor or her actions, her behavior lends itself to being a traitor. So I don't see a lot of longevity in it for her. Um, but I miss having a gamer trader and I kind of knew or I assumed that they, they would let the gamers take a backseat this season because the last season was so gamer heavy. But I miss it. I miss. First of all, I loved it when the traders hated each other. It was Just more fun to watch. Like, I don't love the trader. Like, everybody's just on the same page and every decision's easy and we only have 20 seconds of footage from the turret because they're just agreeing with everything that's boring. And I also don't think that they're making decisions that are necessarily like, strategic or, or many steps ahead. It's kind of like they every time they've had so few options of who to murder first because of the short list, but then now just because the challenges have gone in such a way where so many people have shields that they have a really limited number to choose from. And it just seems kind of haphazard as opposed to like, strategic and thinking long term.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Brady, you'd be the most ruthless traitor ever. I would love watching you, girl. Like, you would be unwilling.

[Brittany Haynes]

I got to be a traitor for like exactly five seconds. And I murdered exactly one person. Tom Sandoval. That's it.

[Crystal Minkoff]

But just to watch you from the beginning, planning and, you know, like, you would be so fun to watch, honestly.

[Nick]

Last question before we move on, Brittany, back to Colton. I'm curious because you mentioned, like, you think he's not trying to win, but just getting TV time. And that's certainly a believable narrative. But I wonder, do you think there's situations. Because I feel like most people are smart enough to know, like, hey, I should fly under the radar, you know, and things like that. And. And Colton essentially referenced that kind of to be his plan. But do you think there are situations where, like, say, take Colton for example, where he came in with this plan but then fancied himself as, from his perspective is one of the smartest people in the room because he didn't think that other people maybe are playing dumb and he's not picking up on that. And he just like, can't help help but make these astute observations again, from his perspective. Do you feel like that happens a lot where people kind of feed into their own bullshit?

[Brittany Haynes]

Yeah, it's very, very strange. And I think that it is kind of fun to view it through the lens of, like, as you said, you know, what is this? What is this a representation of as a whole? Like, how can we really dig into this and see the bigger picture of what this means? But I think that there are multiple people. He's not the only one that it feels like they're there for a lot of camera time. Like you mentioned Michael Rappaport too. Like, this is in no way a strategy to actually win the traitors he's not going in his confessionals and being like, oh, it was a red herring. I was really thinking this. Like, no, he's. He's literally just running around yelling. I feel like it's very, very performative and annoying. That's just not the type of villain that I like to see on my screen. I love a villain who runs around yelling because there's, you know, a deeper meaning to it. Right. Or it's a distraction or it's a technique or whatever. I don't love a villain who's just yelling for the sake of yelling so that the camera is on them more often.

[Mayra Amit]

I did feel like Tiffany telling Colton that she was smarter than him is something he has still thought about to this day. Like, I feel like that really cut him deep. Cause he's like, how do you. Is it one F or two Fs? I'm just so stupid. I don't know how to spell Tiffany.

[Brittany Haynes]

Oh, he thought that was going to slap too. He was like, I've got the perfect line. How do you spell Tiffany? You know, I'm like, that is just stupid. That was so good. Yeah. And it's like, okay, that's not even a name that would be, like, appropriate to have to ask. You could ask how you spell Britney. Because there are many ways Tiffany.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

I don't.

[Brittany Haynes]

I've only ever seen one.

[Nick]

But I really appreciate Tiffany in that moment because it felt like at the. That. It felt like when she said that she knew where it was going and that all, you know, that everyone just had her name in her mouth. And it felt like at that point she just really told Colton what she thinks. And then she went on Twitter and she was like. I think she was like, fuck you, Colton. I don't know if that was show related or, or not, but she was not pulling any punches. When you are just like, yeah, you did this and here's why. And you get it wrong, it should feel icky. It should feel like, hey, I wrongly accused someone of something and it costs them. Everyone's grateful to be there. But, like, you know, as the point of the show, there's some real money at stake here. And for a lot of people who rightfully care about it because it's literally life changing and to be so cavalier about that is like, shocking.

[Crystal Minkoff]

It was hard to watch Tiffany being in that position.

[Brittany Haynes]

It's also time, right? Like the opportunity and the time that you've taken away from your life to, you know, go out and try to do this thing. I mean, it's Very, very impactful.

[Nick]

Before we jump into Beverly Hills Housewives, Brittany, I'm curious what you think of the fashion this season of Traders, which, you know, typically we're, you know, we're leaning into Scotland. We're using this show as like a. A, A Runway way. Do you feel like this cast is living up to the. Its expectations that we have for them?

[Brittany Haynes]

I feel like this cast just missed the memo that we were supposed to incorporate the fashion into the theming of the show. They. It's very confusing. There's a lot of animal prints as if we are filming the traitors on safari. I'm very confused by. Someone is showing up in only overall, which is. You could have at least in that front pocket, like, stuck like a little tartan sprig. You know something.

[Mayra Amit]

It could have been plaid.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Do you have a stylist there? Because it's such specific clothing. Like, how does that work?

[Brittany Haynes]

Yes, there's. There is a stylist there, but you bring all of your own stuff. But in the communication on the lead up, it's very much like the wardrobe is kind of part of the show. Like, we want it to feel like it is. You know, it's part of the theme, it's part of the narrative, and we want it to feel that way. And so. So, you know, you. In the past, you've seen, like, fascinators and tons of tartan, and people try to, like, really lean into the murder mystery type element as well as the setting, which is insane.

[Crystal Minkoff]

And they give you a budget.

[Brittany Haynes]

It just. No, it's all on you.

[Crystal Minkoff]

What you guys do all that yourself.

[Brittany Haynes]

You are being compensated to go on the show. Right. So you're going to take a portion thereof and use it.

[Nick]

Sure, yeah.

[Brittany Haynes]

For a wardrobe. I. I personally went on, on Saks. Rest in peace, by the way. Love Saks. And would just type in, like, tartan plaid, whatever. And like, there's tons of options. There's lots and lots out there. I got a couple of those, like, fascinator veil things off of Etsy. I mean, it's supposed to be part of the fun and part of, like, getting excited about it and getting into it is the are the outfits. And this season, I don't see a lot of Scottish influence in our wardrobe choices, which has of a lot always been a part of it before. And so it feels very strange to show up indoors in an orange raincoat. It feels somehow disjointed from the theme of the show.

[Nick]

Like you said, Brittany, it's almost like it's kind of a secondary beeline competition with the cast. You know, you get this opportunity, you get compensated quite well. And to that point, yeah, it is like something that the cast often uses to compete and have. Have, you know, many of the Bravo fans and the peacock fans. That's what they care about. That's why we watch Housewives. You know, we're not just, like, critiquing the fights. We're asking ourselves, can they say fashion, fashion, fashion, you know, and. And. And stand by?

[Brittany Haynes]

And Alan is the champion of it. Right. Like, Alan's the bar, and he. So it. It's very much a part of his job as the host is that he is, like, fully in it. Right. Like, he is to the extreme, and everybody else kind of follows suit and just not this season. I don't know. I did notice when Monet x change was murdered and they reveal that it was Monet, and I think it was. Colton says the best dressed. The best dressed. And then Lisa Rinna, knee jerk is like, one of. One of. She's, like, offended because she's, like, also in contention. Lisa, you've worn animal print every single episode. It's not. You're not in contention. Even if it wasn't Monet exchange. It's certainly. Certainly not you with the glasses and the animal print. So relax. Like, you can let Monet have it. Like, she was very quick to be like, oh, but. But one of. Right.

[Mayra Amit]

But I am right.

[Brittany Haynes]

Just one of.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Who do you guys think are the best and worst dressed?

[Angie K.]

Maura Higgins.

[Brittany Haynes]

Best dressed. Well, her body is everything, but she's.

[Angie K.]

Also themed like she's sticking with it.

[Crystal Minkoff]

So I love Candace.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yes.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Candace is eating.

[Crystal Minkoff]

This is super fun to watch. And. And I think her outfits match her personality.

[Brittany Haynes]

She looks cute. Yes. Everything Moira wears is amazing. And she did a cape on the first episode, and I'm such a sucker for a cape. Give me any cape.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Worst dress. Colton.

[Angie K.]

Colton.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

He looks like he's a linebacker dressed like a grandmother. I just don't. It's too Harry styles for me.

[Crystal Minkoff]

By the way, baby blue is no one's color. No, that's not. Not.

[Angie K.]

It's not Marie Antoinette.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Marie Antoinette. He looks like he is about to go to a garden party.

[Brittany Haynes]

It doesn't look like he probably is either. Right? Like, it doesn't look like Colton, but doing Scotland, it. It looks like he's wearing full costume without bringing in, like, his own personal style to it whatsoever.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Like, it's, like wearing it just.

[Brittany Haynes]

It doesn't even. Yeah, yeah. It feels just Too performative with the outfit choices versus it feeling like his personality, but, like, with a little Scottish flair, if that makes sense.

[Mayra Amit]

Speaking of fashion, we have Amanda on Beverly Hills still. Just, you know, I have sunscreen in my Chanel backpack.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I'm getting. I get tagged so much when it comes to Amanda. I don't know why. I'm like, I'm a fan. Please stop tagging me. Like, I'm embarrassed. People. I think people say either we'd be like the best allies or we would have. Have the biggest feud.

[Nick]

She's like, I make that in a month.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I think biggest feud. I find her very. That kind of character sort of is super annoying to me. I don't. I get annoyed very easily. I can handle a lot of personalities, but annoying is incredibly painful for me.

[Angie K.]

It's the need to one up or like, to be like, I also have that. Oh, my friend. Actually, I bought that. And it's like, just let someone tell a story.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I mean, does she not know the room she's in? I know she lives a block from me. Like, I know her. Like, not to shit on it, but, like, you can't do that to Kathy.

[Angie K.]

I was gonna say you can't one up Kathy Hilton.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yeah, you can't. I mean, that house fits in Kathy's bedroom. Literally. Kathy's bedroom is freaking a hotel. Like, it's insane and it's embarrassing and I'm embarrassed for her because. But also maybe good housewives are people who are so unaware of themselves, right? Like, you just have no. Like Brittany was saying about self reflection. Like, she is so unaware of how she's coming across. And from what I understand is that it never stops the whole season. So, you know, she just acts like. Like this is who she is. And it's like it goes on and on, and she annoys not only the cast, but production throughout the whole time. So, I mean, God, I wish I was this unaware. I would have no stress in my life.

[Angie K.]

I was gonna say I think it's necessary because it does shake up the cast. It gives us something interesting to focus on. But, like, at the same time, I don't think it's doing her any favors.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I think Sutton's very lucky to have her. Yes.

[Brittany Haynes]

I think she's got longevity with that. Like, she's placed herself now in a position where you're go where she's going to be ass back, right? Because she's basically annihilating herself on television. And it's like, I don't know, it's an enjoyable to watch villain.

[Nick]

Kind of the only one giving us something to talk about right now. It's. I mean, we're. You know, Rachel's lovely and kind of this kind of sophisticated, polished, you know, fashionista, and then she's just not messy.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I think there's a fine line, though, with Amanda in that, like, yes, we're talking about her, but the cast is. So they're really separating from her. And you. You want the villain and you want someone to kind of spar with, but they don't. Like, I can see it in Erica. Cause I know her. Like, she doesn't even want to do that. This cast won't. Like, from what. You know, like, what I think would happen in Orange county is like, oh, I'm not filming with that person. They're. They're not. Like, they put on a show and they want a good show, but I can just feel like they just don't engage with her at all. And they don't want to spar with her. They don't want to like her. I think they're just, like, indifferent about her. And, you know, the cast really did not like Sutton walking in and watching them. Like, not like someone more is great for Sutton, but it's in a way that's not fun to watch. Like, she's just like a fish out of water. Like, this is not her crew of friends. And you can tell that they're not going to welcome her even next year. So I don't know if she's guaranteed a spot because of that. Like, unless it changes, from what I understand. It doesn't. I don't think. I don't think it will work. How do you bring her back? Like, oh, what's been going on your last year? Like, Rachel has. You know, Rachel's connected with half the cast, and they like her. You can tell they want to know about her.

[Angie K.]

She's brimming with Kathy Hilton.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yes. But they also, like, respect her opinion. You know, they ask her. Like, they're not asking. They're not just, like, they put. They ask Amanda questions to kind of make fun of her.

[Angie K.]

Yeah.

[Crystal Minkoff]

And that's very different. Like, I don't. I never felt that way. Like, they're either asking me to, like, get me or. But they're not. Like, let's just sit there and sit back and watch her, like, fall in her own sword. Like, they weren't. Not like that. Like, watching that. That's what they're doing with her. So I don't think she has a. I don't know, that's my opinion.

[Mayra Amit]

Well, if you missed the most recent episode of the Real Housewives Beverly Hills, we do have a rapid recap. We are in Sedona and we've got snacks and vortexes. Jennifer Tilly wants the vortex in the rocks to think she's fab. Eric went to REI for pants to hike up to see the vortex. Rachel Zo would never go to REI or hike. Dorit doesn't care much for vortexes, but she does have abs. And yes, we noticed. It's unclear whether millennial Amanda knows who Jennifer Tilly is. She hasn't seen seat of Chucky, who she does know. Avi, Sutton's old assistant, who she broke up with T. Sutton says that doesn't really affect her. She's focused on being a better person, but she's annoyed that Amanda was annoyed she was late to dinner. Kyle and Dorit are mad at each other because of pk, blah, blah, blah. And there's this turquoise jewelry shopping montage. Shopping is Jennifer Tilly's a, if you didn't know. Later, the girls get dinner at the airport. Amanda thinks Sutton was mad because she said, hey, Missy.

[Brittany Haynes]

To her.

[Mayra Amit]

Then she brings up Avi again and Sutton does in fact, get mad. Sutton strike has returned. Jennifer Tilly doesn't love that energy. She thinks this kind of Sutton behavior is why Garcelle left. Anyway, they end the evening nicely, but there is tension in the air surrounding the vortex.

[Nick]

Crystal, we had dinner with you the other night, and we were 15 minutes late and I was pretty sure it was seven. Now I was convinced it was 7:30 and you sent us a text, being like, we're in the back room. I was mortified to be 15 minutes late with I know you. Are you hearing from us? Where? Like, I feel like that's like, like a pet peeve of mine. Like, what is your. Like, what's the latest someone can be without them saying, hey, just a heads up, traffic running late. Sorry about this before. You're like, that's in your head. That's fucking rude.

[Crystal Minkoff]

So I, I've actually talked about this with Cynthia on Humble Brag. Like, I, I, I love etiquette and all that stuff. I think that's why I, Heather Dubrow and I are actually very close. Like, we kind of connect on that level. I would say, like, kind of in a larger party. Like, when we, when I did my dinner last year with Jacori and Natalie was there, it was like 20 to 30 minutes, you're at home. Like, it's like, this is a 6 o' clock call time.

[Brittany Haynes]

6.

[Crystal Minkoff]

By 6:30, you know, things are starting to happen. It was like a sit down dinner. However, I give a lot of like Runway for time. Actually 15 to 30 minutes. The other couple wanted to like, sat down right away. So then it felt like you weren't there. Had we been at the bar, it would've been fine. But I. I know you guys and you guys are very on time people. So that's what made. That's why I text you. I kind of waited 10, 15 minutes and I was like, maybe they don't know where. Maybe they're at the bar. But I. I knew you guys either. Something happened.

[Nick]

We were sitting in our car watching.

[Mayra Amit]

Episodes of Potomac wishes 12 times and read 7:30 and. And then when you texted, Nick was like, why would she text us that right now?

[Brittany Haynes]

15 minutes before you said we were.

[Mayra Amit]

Supposed to be there.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I knew something happened. I knew it wasn't like, you guys are just blase late. Cause that's not your style. Some people are, you know, like, you just kind of know that. But it just felt more that way because everyone sat down. So then I was like, oh. And then it just kind of went. And I think normally I don't really do a seven. I don't really do a seven o' clock dinner. I'm like an old lady. I like a five o' clock dinner. So seven o' clock just felt later to me in general. But it was not a problem. You guys didn't come in actually that late, so. But I know you guys felt that way, so don't worry about it at all.

[Nick]

But for Sutton to come in and just be like, what? Like, I'm here. What's.

[Crystal Minkoff]

How long was she.

[Mayra Amit]

It's midnight.

[Nick]

I mean, they made it seem like she was at least an hour.

[Mayra Amit]

No, they said the dinner was at 7:45.

[Angie K.]

They didn't start cooking till like 11.

[Nick]

That's crazy.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yeah, that's crazy. That doesn't actually. Unless something. Did they arrive that day to Sedona? I don't know.

[Angie K.]

They went to the Vortexes.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Oh, then that's weird. Like, get ready and go.

[Nick]

You know, also person. Brittany.

[Brittany Haynes]

Were they not all in the same house? Like, there wasn't ever any explanation given as far as like, what her whereabouts actually were? I'm confused. Can't you just go knock on her door? I'm. I don't. Are you late? If you're in the house though, like.

[Angie K.]

Broken up in like cottages and houses.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Then she was just getting ready and just taking her time.

[Angie K.]

But they have FaceTime.

[Brittany Haynes]

Was she just taking her time? I don't know.

[Crystal Minkoff]

See, the problem is I would just start dinner. I would just start dinner.

[Angie K.]

Dinner.

[Crystal Minkoff]

But, like, you can't really do that. Or, like, there's. Or maybe it was part of, like, waiting. I don't know. I think waiting on film, like, setting is like, film setting is.

[Brittany Haynes]

I feel like it was an easily resolved situation that was intentionally not resolved so that we could be annoyed about something.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yes.

[Brittany Haynes]

I like, all you. All you really have to do is go knock on the door and be like, aren't you doing the chicken? You know, it's not that serious.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Right.

[Brittany Haynes]

But it was like, instead of actually resolving the issue or cooking the chicken, let's just talk about how late she is when we are all on the same property. Right?

[Mayra Amit]

Correct.

[Brittany Haynes]

Very unclear. What? Like, it's very different than your situation where you're actually, you know, people are sitting down, you're late to a restaurant, You. You can say it was traffic. You. You fessed up and were honest, but you could have blamed it on traffic. What is she going to blame it on?

[Crystal Minkoff]

Like, yeah, but I think they were just trying to create, like, a small moment of drama unnecessarily in that situation. You're like, oh, I'll cook the chicken.

[Angie K.]

Well, I'm also kind of like, we're planning on Sutton's part, because I'm like, why are we thinking that Dorit going to chip in for cooking dinner?

[Brittany Haynes]

Like, why.

[Angie K.]

Why is this the trip that we don't have a chef?

[Crystal Minkoff]

The problem is that this is the conflict right now. Honestly, this is not good.

[Brittany Haynes]

Exactly.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I would love to be there right now. This is. If this was the conflict, I'd be so happy. I would come in with my cookware, and I'd be like, cooking. Like, this is the perfect moment. But this is a problem for a show.

[Nick]

Like, do we feel like, you know, you have Kyle, like, og you have Dorit, you know, been around this for a while. And even the new cast member in Rachel's. She's not like, Amanda. Amanda's like, you can clearly feel whether she's doing it right or wrong. She is trying to prove her worth. Right. She's there kind of like, all right, I gotta make a name for myself. I gotta make a splash, whatever. And it feels like you have a cast of women who are well respected in the housewives community, and there. There seems to be a lack of urgency around creating the TV we're hoping to get from them almost, you know.

[Brittany Haynes]

Totally they're really comfortable.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yes, I. Yeah, I can tell. They're like, they're not gonna come at each other with this drama because it's also the same dramas last few years. So it's like, also, there is an issue of, like, you don't wanna fake it. You don't wanna fake drama against each other. Right. I think they're all kind of good. So, like, they're just kind of making fun of him. That's what I'm saying about the Amanda stuff. Like, she's the easy one. And even more than just coming for Sutton, it's like, I just think that they don't really know where to go with this right now. Like, they all kind of like each other.

[Nick]

Give me, like. Give me like, a. A speed date mixer where they fight over the same guy or something. I don't know.

[Mayra Amit]

They had a speed date. They did do that. Yeah.

[Angie K.]

And Erica's dating someone, though.

[Brittany Haynes]

We're mad because, like, Kyle's defending pk, so we're getting, like, a very subtle. Subtle. A very subtle two sides situation.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yeah.

[Brittany Haynes]

But, yeah, it feels stale. I mean, even Sutton could have. Because obviously it comes out later in the episode that she was upset that Avi was brought up, but when Avi was first brought up, she didn't have almost. She had almost no reaction at all. She's like, okay, I think she just.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Can'T talk about it. Bothered you guys. She can't talk about it.

[Brittany Haynes]

If you talked about it, then we would have some. Something.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brittany Haynes]

She said we're having to hear how you were late coming from your cottage. Like, we would actually prefer that you be annoyed and talk about it.

[Mayra Amit]

Like, do your job and get frustrated when people bring up your drama. I feel like Amanda definitely clock in. Clock in. Amanda definitely knew Avi's name. She played in, like, Avery.

[Crystal Minkoff]

That was so embarrassing.

[Mayra Amit]

Ariana, you know his name. You had a conversation with Kyle. You got. Got the name down. She did it again when we got.

[Nick]

It was like, the same bit.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Yeah.

[Crystal Minkoff]

By the way, I think she never had that conversation.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

No, there.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I know Avi. There is no way he did that. Yeah, there is no way.

[Brittany Haynes]

Also, don't set it up like this juicy nugget of like, oh, this person told me to call and get the tea, but I didn't. What do you mean?

[Crystal Minkoff]

That's what I'm talking cast.

[Nick]

You think? There's no way.

[Crystal Minkoff]

There's no way.

[Nick]

There's no way. He refused to drama between him and Sutton.

[Crystal Minkoff]

No, I know Avi. He's a really good person. And they had a very, very strong relationship, him and Sutton. And unfortunately, it did. You know, it ended like Jennifer said, but he would not do that. And I think when Amanda did that, that's. That was like the nail in the coffin for the cast. They, like, they want drama. They want you to bring up shit that you know they want. It's like, it's not. It's not dissimilar from traitor. Like, it's get off my back. Get it onto you. But they knew that that was fake.

[Angie K.]

And Erica not even.

[Crystal Minkoff]

And no one respects that. No one respects fake shit like that. I wouldn't either. I would be like, what are you. What are you doing? And maybe that actually happened.

[Brittany Haynes]

I wish they would say that to her, though.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I was just saying I think they cut that because that's fourth wall stuff. I bet you they said that. Like, dude, don't do that. Like, that's.

[Nick]

Why is that fourth wall better?

[Brittany Haynes]

If they addressed it, though, they should be like, who was the person? Let's give them a call. I would like. Let's. Let's have that conversation.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Because I'm sure they said, you're just doing this for the show. Show. That's fourth wall too much.

[Angie K.]

But even Erica, who's not the biggest fan of Sutton, was also, like, you're trying to tell her that you have something on her, and that's ew. In her exact words.

[Crystal Minkoff]

That's what I mean.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Crystal Minkoff]

If you have Erica defending Sutton, like, she could feel that that was not cool. And that's. Once you just lost the girls. Just as not even a cast member as, like, someone who's actually going to try to engage with you. I would be like, I don't want you around if you're just gonna bring.

[Mayra Amit]

Up, like, that's not cool, Amanda being like, Sutton, do you cry often?

[Crystal Minkoff]

Well, that was funny, actually.

[Angie K.]

Her response is per Amanda.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yeah, that was actually funny.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Crystal, I have a question for you. So with Beverly Hills, it does sometimes feel like. And you've talked about this before, there's so much they can't say.

[Mayra Amit]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

And I almost wonder, do you think that's impeding the show? Because it's like, I feel like I'm watching a show where all of the drama is actually just happening with what they aren't saying versus what they are.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Look, I think there's. I see both sides, you know, as you know, I think what makes me sort of like, wasn't like, the perfect housewife is I'm very protective of my Family. And I'm protective of my life because I know once the show's over, as it is, I go back to my life. You know, I have dinner with Nick and Natalie, with Rob. We have. We go back. This is fleeting. It's fleeting for everybody, whether you're on it for one year or 15 years, you know? And so I think that, like, to talk shit about, like, if I'm in fight with Rob, I'm not just like that. They're gonna run with that and forever. My children will watch that. But that was a blip moment in my life because the other 22 years. And of course, you're gonna fight with your spouse. Right. So I think it's really challenging and that, like, yes, I get it. Like, people say, you signed up for this, like, show it all. But I have. I see both sides because I want to know as sort of someone sitting in an audience, and it doesn't affect my life, and I get to enjoy someone else, you know, struggles and joys and all that. But when you're in it, yeah, it's challenging. And I think that. I know I protected a lot of people on that show. Not because I'm high and mighty. It's just. I don't feel like it's right for me to say their story. And I would expect that respect. So it is. It's a tough one. And I get why, you know, when we talk about it, vio file is the whole thing. It's like, you want more. But I also know I'm someone that would respect someone's personal life if they wanted that from me, and I would. And if you. That makes me a bad housewife, that makes me a bad housewife. And I'll. I'd rather take that than my integrity.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

Yeah.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Period.

[Brittany Haynes]

Totally.

[Nick]

Crystal, we have a question for you. You. I think it was you who started a rumor about Katie Janela exiting.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I did not say Katie Janela.

[Unidentified Male Guest]

No, you said someone.

[Nick]

Sorry. I said Katie Janela.

[Brittany Haynes]

Sorry.

[Mayra Amit]

Then you said now. Confirmed.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Confirmed.

[Brittany Haynes]

Yes.

[Crystal Minkoff]

No, I had. Yes, I was told that someone was leaving, and apparently that became a viral sensation, as if that's news that someone on Housewives leaves the cast one year. And when someone comes in, generally speaking, someone leaves. And usually it's one or two come in, one or two leave. That's every year. That's a historical thing.

[Nick]

You can.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Can search on Wikipedia. But, yes, I. Apparently it went crazy. And then I will say almost every Orange county housewife texted me after. Is it me in pain, in fear? And I'm like, you're good. I also, like, I can't say, you know, like, I just heard, and I'm like, look, this is the T. I know. But, yeah, that's what happened.

[Nick]

What do you know?

[Crystal Minkoff]

A lot.

[Nick]

Her exit.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I'm gonna be really honest. Like, I don't watch Orange county, but being someone who's, you know, obviously I want more Asian representation, I think that's was really hard for me. I feel like every year, you know, maybe there. There's no. There was only Tiffany Moon, myself and Katie, and I think Katie had a lot of mixed reviews, but I think that's what makes a good housewife, too. I mean, like, a lot of people hate me, A lot of people like me, and that's fine, but. But I think the challenge is if the cast won't film with you. I think that's what happened. Right. What are you supposed to do from there? You know? But I do think she started to maintain friend. Yeah, I think Tamara was trying to get her back in. No, I'm bummed in that way. I think just on a selfish level, I think she's certainly more integrated than, like, someone like Amanda. But again, I didn't watch it. So, you know, from what I've heard, it was challenge. Like, the girls had a lot of challenges.

[Brittany Haynes]

I have a question, Krystal. I think it's fascinating to me to hear you say that you can basically just tell production, we're not gonna film with this person. Like, do you really have that power as a housewife to say, like, I'm just not gonna do this. I'm just not gonna show up? Like, does production care about your feelings? This is w. Wild to me.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Correct. I agree. I. Well, I've never said that. When I sign the dotted line, and I remember Rob was like, you have to go, like, I don't want to film. I don't. But I never really said, I don't want to film. I just knew the game, and that's what you have to do, and you have to follow up story and whatever. The fact that they all collectively did that says to me a lot more happened that we don't know, because you're really. You can't really do that.

[Brittany Haynes]

Like, you can't do that. In gamer world, they would just put the two of you on an island together and be like, of course.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Especially Orange County. Most of those girls have been on for such a long time. So it's not like newbies where you're kind of like, navigating it. They know the Deal. And they've filmed with a lot of people in the past that they don't want to, but that they all did it together and they got rid of her. That's what I'm saying. Like I, I don't know but I have to imagine more happened that we didn't know. But like I, I've never said that and I've never heard anyone on Beverly Hills when I was on it say that or ever. Like ever.

[Brittany Haynes]

It's wild to me to think because it, it would make it, I would think better for production to keep that person for that reason.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Brittany Haynes]

Rather than, rather than we show up and it's a dinner party where everybody's just smiling at each other. Like, let's throw in this person who's going to trigger people and cause problems to make better tv.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Just have her walk in or something. Yeah.

[Nick]

If there is more to the story, then share the story. Because to Brittany's point, they seem to be kind of low key. Setting as dangerous precedent started with Monica Garcia. Now we see it with Katie Janela for reasons which we kind of understand these relationships with creators slash bloggers, whatever you want to it call column. And we've discussed this at nauseam. Like, you know, Monica Garcia and Katie aren't the only people in Bravo world who have relationships with bloggers. I mean I've had people come on the show who have left the show to go have dinner with some of these people. Like it's, it's. I think it's more common than uncommon.

[Crystal Minkoff]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So it's the perception that's getting around is that if you are able to collude and get the majority of your castmates to banish someone one that it's honestly not that hard. And yeah, it just seems like what if, if there is more of the story, why don't you just say it? Why don't you just share it? Why?

[Crystal Minkoff]

Well, I think maybe it will one day. You know, I think that it's like anything they're trying to hold on to the original whatever concept or what, you know, and then it, it's slowly adjusting every season. You can feel like now we know someone can not be filming and you're starting to a little more fourth wall. Like maybe in 10 years be part of it, you know. But I think that for the sake of like whatever they're trying to hold on to these networks or the production company, whoever it is, like their decisions is like we're not going to show this now, but maybe in 10 years or a year they Will, do you know what I mean? They all have a reason is listening.

[Brittany Haynes]

I think it's a bluff. Okay, you said that all of these Orange county housewives texted you that day panicking. Okay, it's a bluff. You can keep whoever you want. They're still going to show up. They're still going to gonna. I don't know who's doing the negotiating, but I'm telling you right now, they're bluffing. It's like the most important thing to them. They can say that they won't do it. They will. They will just put the screws to them.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I don't disagree.

[Nick]

I mean, how many times has Tamara quit? You know what I'm saying?

[Crystal Minkoff]

But guess she gets to come back.

[Brittany Haynes]

We literally saw her run away barefoot. And like, here we are. You know, it's a bluff. It's. It's there.

[Crystal Minkoff]

But I think Tamara, like, Tamara's a great housewife. I think she's one of the ultimate.

[Brittany Haynes]

Housewives because she runs away barefoot. That's part of. Of what makes. That's why she's still on the show. Right. But I'm just saying they can pretend like they're going to draw these hard lines. I don't think that they really would. At the end of the day, it's. It's surprising to me that they feel that they can even have that power.

[Nick]

Brandon, before we let you go, I would love to hear what you love the most and what you like the least when it comes to reality TV right now.

[Brittany Haynes]

Oh, that's a good question. What do I love the most?

[Nick]

You mean it could be like, what we're watching, you know, just a hot take, you know? Yeah. What are you enjoying the most? It could be in the weeds. It could be high level, and then what's something. And maybe it's, you know, housewives colluding to eliminate cast members. Maybe, you know, in terms of the things that you like the least or what you would like to see change. Because, like, as someone like yourself, you know how the sausage is made. I'm sure you've thought about, if I were in a power position, this is what I would do differently. And I'm sure you have a lot of good insight.

[Brittany Haynes]

You know who I think is killing the game right now in terms of reality and TV is a little network called tlc. Everything that they feed me, I'm happy to consume. I love everything that they're putting out. I'm obsessed with the 90 day franchise, and all of their shows tap into the type of energy that existed on all reality tv, you know, decades ago. Like primitive early Bravo, which I was obsessed with. You know, OG style Housewives shows, they're still doing that on tlc and everything that they put out I just love. It's messy, it's unhinged, it's people who are willing to throw away their lives for one blip, you know, moment on tv, which I personally love to consume. And in that vein, what I like the least is TV that feels too performative and where it feels like you're just creating or fabricating or trying to get camera time without having anything of like real substance or any tangible consequences would be my least favorite thing that is happening on TV now. But I'm very much an advocate for, for the early days, like early competition tv. Same thing like early days of Big Brother. Amazing, incredible, incredible television. So the last frontier that I can find that on happens to be TLC at the moment. And I am very, very into what they're doing in programming these days.

[Crystal Minkoff]

I agree.

[Mayra Amit]

Those are some great takes.

[Brittany Haynes]

If you're sleeping on tlc, tune in. Wake up.

[Nick]

Brittany. Always appreciate you taking the time, Chris. Still, obviously your family, we appreciate you taking the time. Humble Brag is available wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to check out her and Cynthia for their latest episodes. Brittany, do you have anything you want to plug before we let you go?

[Brittany Haynes]

Yes, I'm recapping The Traders Season 4 over on my Patreon. It's just Patreon Brittney Haynes. So join the community and we hate on everything.

[Nick]

All right, well do not forget that tomorrow we have an extraordinary going deeper with the one in the only Angie K. To talk about all things Salt Lake City, including the reunion. Plus we just get to know Angie on a personal level. Be sure not to miss that. Also on Thursday's episode of Reality Recap, we got a jam packed episode which includes Reza from the Valley Persian style. Plus we'll get into some Vanderpump rules as well. So many more guests on your way. It's going to be a great week. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to check out Vile Files plus see you tomorrow. But bye.