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- [00:00]
Nick
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- [02:51]
Kelsey
You're crazy.
- [03:02]
Nick
How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. How are you?
- [03:05]
Rosie
Good.
- [03:06]
Nick
What's your name?
- [03:06]
Kelsey
My name is Kelsey. I'm 31 and I am not sure if I'm running away or if I'm just not into the guy that I'm dating.
- [03:17]
Nick
Tell me about it.
- [03:18]
Kelsey
So we started dating about nine months ago in May of last year. It started pretty like hot and heavy. We were really into each other, lots of chemistry. One thing that kind of caught me off guard though is he did say I love you pretty quick. It was like two weeks in. So from that point, I think I started being like, okay, well is it too soon? Should he be saying this this fast? I kind of have a history too of jumping in relationships quickly, so. But I decided to keep, you know, giving a shot because I really liked him. And the relationship went really well for, I would say about three months. And then in August, over the summer, I started feeling like I was not getting enough time to myself. Like he wanted to be around me all the time, which is, which is great, but like, I didn't have enough time to myself. I'm also a single mom. I've got a five year old daughter. And so just juggling all of that was really hard for me to find alone time. Like he was staying at my apartment almost every day with me. And so I did have a conversation with him about it and said I felt like I wasn't getting enough, you know, me time and that I wanted like maybe just a couple days a week where it's just me at my apartment and, you know, he would go back to his place and he didn't like that. It caused some issues in our relationship. He felt like I was pushing him away.
- [04:46]
Nick
How did you, I mean, how did. Do you remember, like how you presented that where it's just like, yeah. How did you talk about that?
- [04:52]
Kelsey
Yeah, so we were just like hanging out at my apartment and I just said, you know, I also had just started a new job. So I just said I've been really overwhelmed with this new job. I'm having a hard time balancing, you know, my new job, spending time with you, taking care of, and I feel like I'm just Not taking time to take care of myself because I was really stressed out. And I was, you know, kind of taking it out on him a little bit too, because I wasn't getting that time to relieve my stress. And so I explained it in that way to him. And then I also did tell him because we. We had started talking about marriage and when we would want to move in together. And I told him that I felt like things were progressing a little bit too fast for me.
- [05:38]
Nick
And how long have you been together at that point?
- [05:40]
Kelsey
At that point, we had only been together, like, three or four months. Okay, so.
- [05:46]
Nick
And it sounds like he was always the one, like, you know, pushing things forward in terms of the move in talk and the marriage talk or the engagement talk or things like that. It was. It felt, at least from your point of view, that it was him doing that. And you were more, like, trying to enjoy what you guys were creating in a way, from a relationship. But every time you tried to enjoy it, it felt like he was pushing it forward kind of thing.
- [06:15]
Kelsey
Yeah, yeah, that's really exactly what it was. And at first when I kind of felt like he might be love bombing me, but it was like, I couldn't really tell because he was giving me, you know, tons of compliments and, like, buying me gifts, and he said, I love you two weeks in. And so, like, I was really confused at the start of the relationship, but then as it progressed, it got a little bit more normal, if that makes sense. Like, you know, it was a lot more balanced as far as, like, him complimenting me and us just, like, being able to hang out and have a good time. But then at that point too, I was like, I still felt like things were moving too fast and he was already talking about marriage. And, like, I was open to the idea. But then when it came down to, like, the timeline of it, like, he wanted to get married within, like, a year of us dating.
- [07:06]
Nick
And how old is he?
- [07:07]
Kelsey
He's 30. He just turned 30 in August.
- [07:10]
Nick
Never been married.
- [07:11]
Kelsey
This all happened right around his birthday. No, never been married.
- [07:14]
Nick
No kids or anything?
- [07:15]
Kelsey
Me either.
- [07:16]
Nick
Okay.
- [07:17]
Kelsey
We've never been married, so. Yeah.
- [07:19]
Nick
So where are we now? Like, how long have you been together now?
- [07:22]
Kelsey
Not quite a year. It's been about nine months recently. So he still has his apartment. That's cheaper rent than where I'm at. My lease ends at the end of next month. And so we did a little test run where I went and stayed at his apartment. My daughter and I stayed there for, I would say, like, two weeks. And honestly, I just got really anxious while I was over there, and I felt like, I'm not ready to be here. I want to go back to my own apartment. And then there was little things that would happen where, like, little habits he has, you know, that I couldn't tell if it was like, I was getting annoyed because, like. Like, I'm. You know, we're spending so much time together, sometimes people annoy you. But I couldn't tell if it was that or if it was like, maybe I'm just not happy in this relationship. And so I just sat down and talked to him, and I said, I don't think I'm ready for this step in the relationship. I've been really anxious since I've been here to the point where it's like. Feels like I'm gonna have a panic attack almost. And to me, it's like, I gotta listen to that, right? So I talked to him about it, and again, he was like, well, I think you're just. You're just pushing me away. You know, you're just. You're just pushing me away. It's fine if you want to go back to your apartment, but I really think you're just. You're just pushing me away because you're scared. And so then what does that mean? Sort of gets in my head because. Yeah, so that's what I'm like. Well, I don't think it's that. He thinks that I'm scared because of my past relationships, because I did date a guy where I was ready for marriage with him and he wasn't. And so he broke the relationship off. And that relationship did really hurt me. And so. And he knows about that. And so he thinks that I'm pushing him away now because I'm scared of getting hurt again. And so where I'm at is like, I can't. I can't tell if that's what I'm doing or.
- [09:23]
Nick
Well, when he says that, does that feel right?
- [09:25]
Kelsey
No, it doesn't.
- [09:28]
Nick
There you go.
- [09:29]
Rose
Yeah.
- [09:30]
Kelsey
Yeah, it. It doesn't feel right.
- [09:33]
Nick
I mean, like, no offense to him. I mean, listen, I say this all the time, people. You know, I'm not a therapist or psychologist. Doesn't mean his opinions aren't valid. I mean, people listen to the show. I have my opinions. People. It or leave it. The difference between him and I in this scenario is that he is emotionally invested in the outcome. And while I wish you nothing but the best, I. I guess I don't really care one way or the other whether you stay with this guy or not. And so, like, listen, like, not. Nothing against him, but, like, he's obviously, he's biased. He doesn't want to feel rejected. And I just think it's really important for you not to discount what he said. But, like, when he's telling you what he thinks it is, it's really important to listen to your body and what feels right or what feels wrong. You know, he would probably do himself a favor by just trying to listen to you and make you feel heard and sound like he is emotionally mature enough to hear the feedback you have without it triggering him to the point where he is acting like you're about to break up with him. So to the. You know, where he's trying to convince you of, like, why you're feeling a certain way. That has nothing to do with him, you know, because, you know, everything I've heard about from you, it's not like I. You didn't call up and say, how do I break up with my boyfriend? He gives me the ick. Like, that's not the headline, you know, that's kind of how he's acting when you, you know, it sounds like anytime you go to him and say, hey, listen, I'm feeling a certain way. And yeah, it just. It one. It kind of makes it. I imagine that creates a lot of different feelings. You know, it's just like, well, I don't. I just want to talk to you, and I want to feel like you hear me.
- [11:33]
Kelsey
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really hard. And another dilemma I have, you know, I'm like, 31. I do want to find someone one day, so I'm like, I don't know. It's a little bit scary being single again, especially having a kid and, like, trying to figure out how to navigate that as a single mom and, like, bringing my daughter into it because now she's, like, sort of attached to this person, and it's like, yeah. So it brings up the question of, like, how to navigate dating moving forward if I don't end up with him. It's a little bit scary for me.
- [12:06]
Nick
It really sounds like mentally, deep down, you just don't think he's your guy. That's just kind of how it sounds. And that's okay, you know, that, you know, just a small note, you know, like, I wouldn't spend a lot of energy trying to figure out if he's love bombing you. I think nine times out of 10, people can get excited when they meet someone. They finally are excited and, like, you know, that, you know, everyone's having a hard time meeting people, let along finding someone they get a little excited about. And he got excited about you, which is, you know, and again, love bombing. Not that really. It's really about. Does it feel manipulative? It's like in the heat of the moment, but I love you, and that's why I did what I did. Even though it's just like, what does that have to do with. And you know, and it feels manipulative. Like his love comes at the price, and that is your approval or your submission to whatever it is he's asking for. Like someone who just feels like they're getting carried away and excited and wanting to move. If there only is. I want to move things forward, chances are they're just excited, you know, if they're not dangling a carrot, you know, then it's probably not love bombing, you know, so I wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure that out, you know, because like, again, love bombing is like a. Is a form of abuse. You know, it doesn't sound like you feel like he's emotionally abusing you. He's just a little. He's just a little excited. He's just a little immature potentially, you know, he's.
- [13:41]
Kelsey
Yeah.
- [13:41]
Nick
You know, 30 years old. He's kind of entering a potentially a new phase of his life. He's trying to adult here. He wants to do the right thing. I imagine for a single man who meets a single mother, there's a. Probably a lot of uncharted territory for him. He probably wants to do the right thing, and he might not know what the right thing is. His problem is, is like, he would probably do well just to like, again, listen a little bit. And you know, I think all young men, or men in general, like, I think we could all humble ourselves a little bit into acknowledging what we don't know, asking for help, things like that. You know, he may learn this along the way, but as far as you dating, let's assuming you end this relationship. I mean, listen, I don't. Yeah, dating is hard, and I'm not a single mom or a single parent, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt, you know, but like, I think one, your kid will be okay. Whatever connection she has to this person, people will come and go out of their lives, you know, that just that's happened. That would be a learning opportunity for your kid. That being said, dating in the future, you. You're allowed to be a little bit more guarded or maybe learn a lesson from this. Experience where you realize, listen, I might date someone for a year only to realize I might not want to end up with them, you know, And I. Maybe I just. Does that mean you have to wait a year to introduce someone to your kid? No, but it might mean that, like, you are a little less, you know, like him, kind of low key. Moving in with you guys early in the relationship and spending many nights there, that might be something you put a stop to, you know?
- [15:32]
Kelsey
Yeah.
- [15:33]
Nick
It also could just be an opportunity to test out the emotional maturity of some of these people you date. You know, how do they react to hearing disappointing things? You know, I think everyone's entitled to have a. An initial, like, poor reaction. By poor, I don't mean like super reactive, but like, you know, like, in a perfect world, you probably wish he would have been like, oh, okay, well, I'm sorry to hear that. Tell me more. Very, very open, empathetic. Very kind of just listening. But it would make sense for. At first for him to internalize this and be like, oh, so you just fucking hit my guts and, you know, whatever, you know. But the emotional mature person. Person should at least come back, maybe a day or two passes and say, hey, listen, I. Sorry if I had, like, a little hasty reaction. Obviously I like you and I'm just a little. It was. It was disappointing to hear, but, like, feelings are valid and at the same. Let's sit down and. And talk about this stuff, you know?
- [16:28]
Kelsey
Yeah.
- [16:30]
Nick
So if nothing else, my guess is you're. I mean, if he would do stuff like that, he might feel differently about him. But, like, being a. A mom, it's hard in a relationship where you're always the one trying to explain to your partner why things aren't okay or why you're not doing something and then you're either like, defending your point of view or parent in a way that's like, why I shouldn't have to explain this to you. And like, again, when I say parent, like, because he gets, you know, he's upset. He gets, you know, he's throwing a little bit temper tantrum. You know, things like that.
- [17:08]
Kelsey
Yeah, yeah. Cause like, where we left things. So I went back to my apartment and now he was just like. And I told him, I was like, I did say I'm. I don't want to end the relationship. I just want to move back to my apartment because I'm not ready to take this step. I want to slow down a little bit. I'm just not ready. He said that he needs time to think about that. So my thought is, well, I don't know, it's just weird to me. It almost feels like it's an ultimatum of like, I have to either live with him or we end the relationship. So now I'm like kind of unsure about what, what to do there.
- [17:43]
Nick
I think he's, listen, I mean, he's sounds a little emotionally immature.
- [17:48]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [17:49]
Nick
Yeah. That's not the right response. The right response. I mean, yeah. Who. I don't know why he said that or what his intentions are. Probably just because he probably didn't know how to answer that. It probably felt wrong. And I guess the way people take control to like. Well, I guess I have to think about what I want because he heard disappointing news.
- [18:07]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [18:08]
Nick
You know, he also maybe senses that you're not that into him in a way or fears that, you know, and that's a way he's, you know, it's like, you can't fire me. I quit. There could be a little bit of that. None of that really matter. I mean, listen.
- [18:21]
Kelsey
Yeah.
- [18:22]
Nick
I think what's really important here is I think you already have the answer. Your body's telling you what the answer is and I think you're just in your head a little bit, understandably so about, hey, I've invested a year in this relationship. Hey, my daughter knows this guy. He's not the worst, you know. You know, he's fine. Should I, am I sacrificing good for the pursuit of great? You know, like I, you know, maybe I'm being greedy or maybe I'm being too picky and it's easy to be in your head and all those things. But. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm not saying, you know, you're 31, he's 30. It's not like he's too young for you. But it's also not a surprise that a 30 year old man in 2026 for you feels a little emotionally immature and doesn't feel like he's the type of person who can make you feel like you have someone that can, you can lean on and count on and talk to, you know, right now it sounds like you are. Anytime you're frustrated specifically with the relationship, you have to get into this whole like, you know, it's like you, you almost assume this parent role.
- [19:27]
Kelsey
Yeah, that's exactly what it feels like. It's either that or like if it. The two times we've had conversations about like the timeline in our relationship, it's either that or it feels like he's just assuming that I'm, like, trying to push him away because out of fear when it's. I mean, maybe a little bit, but also, like, I do have a kid, too, so, like, moving at a slower pace is. Is kind of something that I need. So.
- [19:53]
Nick
Yeah, well, that's the thing. It's just. It's a little on his part, again, understand? It's like, it's understandable that that might come out of his mouth. Or certainly it's possible, like, you know, that you have some baggage from past relationships, for sure. But as you know, you open this call by saying, I have actually a history of jumping into relationships a little too fast, and now I'm taking it slow, which kind of signals growth on your part. He doesn't want to acknowledge your growth. He just wants to dismiss that and call it fear, which, again, is just, like, understandable. It makes sense. His logic isn't, like, completely bananas, but, like, again, he's not giving you the benefit of the doubt, and he is centering his fears over understanding why you feel the way you feel and understanding why you're choosing to make some of these decisions, and they're not always about him.
- [20:53]
Kelsey
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That. That really makes a lot of sense, and I think you're right. I think I've sort of just been trying to almost convince myself that I should be in this relationship because he is a really good guy and he treats me well for the most part. You know, we do get along pretty well, but at the same time, there's. There's times where it feels like there's just something missing, almost like, what do
- [21:20]
Nick
you think that is?
- [21:21]
Kelsey
You know, like, we don't have the same sense of humor. There's times where we're hanging out, and I, like, kind of wish I was doing something else. And so there's, like, little things that happen like that where I'm like, what do you mean by wishing?
- [21:34]
Nick
Doing, you know, something else, Like.
- [21:36]
Kelsey
Like wishing that I was, like, doing my own thing instead. I feel like when you're in a relationship with somebody and you're hanging out with them, like you should, that's like, yeah, you want to be with that person. But there is times where were hanging out, and I'm like, man, I kind of wish I was just, like, you know, in my room, like, reading my book or, you know, doing.
- [21:55]
Nick
You don't feel like you're capable of doing that without triggering him.
- [21:59]
Kelsey
Yeah, a little bit.
- [22:01]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [22:01]
Kelsey
It does feel a little bit smothering sometimes.
- [22:05]
Nick
Yeah. Listen, I. At this point, it seems like you Know what you want to do in the sake of, you know, making sure. If you're not 100, sure. Have you. I mean, have you ever communicated to what we've talked about with him? Just to say one with confidence, you could say, you know, I've thought about what you said, and I'm not going to sit there and pretend that obviously my past relationship trauma hasn't affected me, but the way it's affected me is, you know, I. I have jumped in relationships quickly in the past, and how I've chosen to, like, really work on myself is to take things slow, because I don't think that's unhealthy. I think that's a healthier approach because I do think it takes time for just people to get to know each other. And it is frustrating that anytime I try to talk to you about the pace of our relationship and my discomfort with it, where I see something as growth, you just discount it and dismiss it and call it a fear. And I guess I just wish that when I came to you and talked about some of my concerns, it doesn't seem like you're listening. It seems like you're just trying to figure out how to convince me that I'm wrong. And no one likes that feeling. Right. You know, you might be wrong sometimes in a relationship, and yeah, as a. People in a relationship might argue and disagree and you want to hear, you know, I want to feel like you understand, you know, because, like, it's. I don't think it's abnormal for me dating anyone for a year with a child who tried living at their house to say, I want to slow down a little bit and have that be anything other than something I need to connect with or evaluate. You always make it about my feelings about you. And then you always tell me I'm scared, and it's very frustrating.
- [23:56]
Kelsey
Yeah, I haven't actually had that specific conversation with him because I don't think I realized that's what he was doing until you pointed it out, like, discounting my feelings and calling it fear. I never. I didn't think about it that way. I just sort of, like, got it in my head that he was right and that I was just running away. Especially, like, the first time we had the conversation back in August, I was like, oh, I think I am doing that. So let's just forget about all that and I'll keep, you know, know, let's just keep doing what we're doing. And then it came up again, like, four months later. So that's why I'M like, well, maybe I'm not just pushing him away. And I guess I didn't realize that's kind of what he was doing. Discounting my, my feelings there.
- [24:41]
Nick
Yeah. I don't say that be like, oh my God, this discounted your feelings. He's a toxic, you know, it's not, it's. Listen, we all make mistakes and his, his reaction is normal and understandable. And like I said before, you know, that initial reaction makes sense, but the. If at a minimum, if he was emotionally mature, he would maybe acknowledge that a little bit.
- [25:03]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [25:03]
Nick
And I do think if you were to, even if you end this relationship, it would be good practice for you to communicate this to him.
- [25:12]
Kelsey
Okay.
- [25:13]
Nick
You know, in a way that's like. Because again, I think it's norm. Very, it's very normal what he's doing. Right. And I don't think it's abusive or, or it's just like he, he doesn't, you know, he is, you know, when it comes to dating, most of the time we're all learning as we go. Every dating situation, you know, he's maybe probably never dated a single mom before or, or, you know, I don't know. Like every, every relationship's new and it's new, new situations. So we're always kind of learning.
- [25:40]
Kelsey
Yeah.
- [25:41]
Nick
It would be good for you to communicate it because like, it's hard to sometimes articulate how we're feeling and then when we feel, especially when we understand it after the fact, you know, you don't want to bring it up again, but I think it would be good for you to just talk to him in a way that, you know, tries to express how you are feeling about, you know, you wish. Because again, like, it really comes down to every time you have a feeling about this relationship, instead of just having someone to talk to and work through it, you have to. It's almost turns into a confrontation where you have to feel like you have to come up with arguments as to why you feel the way you do even if you don't have them. It's like, you know, and if you don't have a concrete answer, then his response is, well, you're just scared.
- [26:25]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [26:26]
Nick
A 30 year old guy's apartment, I mean, if you moved in, you know, I was in my early 40s when I met Natalie and she didn't have a kid, but imagine if she, you know, like my apartment was not ready for, you know, like it's a big step and. Yeah. You know, and credit to him for wanting to make that Step. You know, he sounds like he, he has these good intentions, but he just has to maybe learn how to be a little bit more. He. He has to welcome you into having a conversation that doesn't discount your feelings. And I don't think he's intentionally doing it, but I think his. He is not allowed. You know, it sounds like you don't feel very understood or heard anytime you're trying to communicate to him how you feel. And that can be very frustrating in a relationship.
- [27:15]
Kelsey
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what's happening. And yeah, I guess I didn't really realize that before. So this is helpful. Yes, very helpful. Because again, like, I didn't realize, like, him saying that I'm scared made me feel a little bit dismissed until you were saying that just a few moments ago. And I think having that conversation with him, hopefully it'll help. If it doesn't, then there's my answer on what I need to do in this relationship. Like, if we're still not on the same page and if he's not okay with taking a step back, then, you know, she's just not my person. And I guess, you know, I have to be okay with that. I think, like, you know, you get in your 30s and you're like, okay, like, gotta start, you know, settling down. So, yeah, I gotta let go of it.
- [28:07]
Nick
I think. Yeah, you'll be okay. And listen, the step back comment, obviously, because that sounds like, oh, we're going backwards, you know, but it's also just like, you know, and when you talk to him, it's maybe so, but I have tried to tell you that I want to slow down. And again, while you didn't, maybe you meant it, didn't mean to do it, but I kind of, I went from feeling like I was making progress with myself and how I, how I, how I entered into new relationships. And then you told me I was afraid. And I'm not blaming you, but like, I guess you got in my head about that and instead of like following through what I thought were healthy steps, I kind of ignored that and, and trusted you. And now I'm realizing it. It wasn't out of fear, it was just. I just want to take things slow, you know, which I think is a normal thing. And, and so I don't want to say it as a step backwards. I do want to slow down and I do want to feel like I have your support without have to constantly worrying about your feelings.
- [29:05]
Kelsey
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.
- [29:08]
Nick
Yeah. Chances are he's gonna. This will be a tough lesson for him. And you will be doing his next girlfriend a service.
- [29:17]
Rose
Yeah, probably.
- [29:19]
Nick
Probably. Probably. Yeah. So. And then when you get back out there, you're. I think you're doing all right. More than anything, I would just encourage you to listen to your body, listen to your feelings. You know yourself better than anyone. It's great to get feedback, but don't be so easily convinced that you're wrong about how you feel.
- [29:41]
Kelsey
Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense.
- [29:45]
Nick
All right. All right, we'll take care.
- [29:48]
Kelsey
Thank you so much.
- [29:50]
Nick
All right, keep us updated.
- [29:51]
Kelsey
I will.
- [29:51]
Rosie
All right.
- [29:52]
Kelsey
Okay.
- [29:52]
Nick
Okay, bye. Bye.
- [29:53]
Rosie
Bye.
- [29:55]
Nick
What's up, everybody? We have a very exciting announcement for all the Ask Nick audience out there. We have new Instagram. Instagram and Tick Tock specifically for Ask Nick. So if you want to avoid all the pop culture and reality TV content that we're putting out there and just focus on all things relationship, dating, interpersonal relationships, and just Ask Nick content, just please give us a follow. It's ass Nick Viall on Instagram and TikTok. So give us a follow and enjoy. We'll be glad that you did.
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- [32:25]
Rosie
It's good.
- [32:26]
Kelsey
How are you?
- [32:26]
Nick
Good. What's your name?
- [32:28]
Rose
My name is Rose. I'm 31 years old and my boyfriend won't let me meet his kids. Should I be worried?
- [32:36]
Nick
Okay, tell me about it. Tell me how long you've been dating. Let's start there.
- [32:39]
Rose
Yeah, so we actually dated previously around two years ago. He was going through kind of a gnarly custody battle. His wife was. Or his ex wife was trying to like get the kids to move to a different state. So we split up during that time just because I, we do have quite a bit of an age gap and that was just a bit much.
- [32:58]
Rosie
How does handle.
- [32:59]
Nick
How old is he?
- [33:00]
Rose
He's 52.
- [33:01]
Nick
Okay.
- [33:02]
Rose
I don't know. So that I dated another guy, did my own thing. But he would like reach out occasionally and be like, I always think about you, like blah blah blah. So anyways, when I became single he kind of reached out and I, I told him I was like, I don't know if I want to date someone older again. Like you already have kids, you have this, you have that. Because I'm definitely in a stage of my life where I like would build a life with someone rather than just enter someone's life. If that makes sense.
- [33:28]
Nick
Yeah.
- [33:29]
Rose
So anyways, so we started dating say October ish. And I was kind of skeptical to start dating. I was like, I don't know, you have kids. And he sent me this long email one day and he was like, you know I love you. I always talk to my therapist about you. Like I just know it's like that
- [33:47]
Nick
the new like romantic thing to say in 2026. I always talk to my therapist I. About you.
- [33:52]
Rose
Exactly. Yeah.
- [33:54]
Nick
Anyway. Sorry. I digress.
- [33:57]
Rose
No, you're fine. So. Yeah. So anyways, then I. I've been asking him, like, what's kind of the plan? And, like, I want to meet your kids. Like, will I be with them this summer? And he just won't give me answers.
- [34:10]
Nick
So you. It sounds like you guys recently just got back together.
- [34:13]
Rose
Yeah, in October.
- [34:15]
Nick
Okay.
- [34:15]
Rose
And he's very. Also, I should mention, he's a very intense person. He's not like, let's see how this goes. Like, he'll be. He'll just. Off the bat, he's like, I love you so much.
- [34:24]
Rosie
I.
- [34:25]
Rose
You know, like, it's like, whoa, cowboy.
- [34:27]
Nick
Like, no.
- [34:28]
Rose
Can we take a step back?
- [34:30]
Nick
So he's 52. How old are his kids?
- [34:32]
Rose
Nine and 11.
- [34:33]
Nick
Nine, 11.
- [34:34]
Rosie
Okay.
- [34:34]
Rose
And I also. I've always been very understanding of his kids. Like, I've never tried to rush stuff because I know, like, they've been through a lot from their mom, too.
- [34:44]
Nick
Says. Says him.
- [34:46]
Rose
Yeah, exactly. And that's the other part of this, which, actually, I kind of sent him a text last Wednesday, so I've kind of solved it, and I'm. I'm more curious if you think I made the right call now. So I was with him two weekends ago, and he just kind of started to tell me his fears, and he would say stuff. I want to go back to school. And I'm like, okay, I want to go back to school. And he's like, I'll help you pay for school, and then we'll just see how it goes. Like, I'll pay for the first year, and we'll just see. And I'm like, what is that? Like, he's already talking as if, like, we're not going to be together. I feel, in a sense, since we were in the shower, and he's like, telling me, like, I don't know. I'm kind of scared about having, like, kids because I told him, I'm like, if we get back together, like, you know, I want kids. That's, like, never been something that I've, like, not. I've been very upfront about it. And I'm like, I want to be married, and I want to, like, do. I'm 31. I. I know I have time, but I'm not trying to just date around anymore. So we were on the same page, but then he. He was telling me his fears, and then he's like, when I hang out with my daughters, they're like, I don't know, Daddy. Like, do we need another person, and it's just the three of us.
- [35:49]
Nick
He told you this?
- [35:49]
Rose
And I get that. Yeah, he would tell me this stuff. So then I'm like, I get nervous because I don't want to be the one messing up their little unit. So anyways, last Wednesday, I sent him a message, and I was just. I told him, hey, I really care about you. If we're gonna move forward, I need to know when, kind of I would meet the kids, ballpark, what the summer will look like. Will I get to spend time with you? Cause in the summer, they do week on week, and he's always planning these trips, so I just wanted to know, like, what it would look like. And he. I didn't hear from him for two days. And then when I heard from him, he was. Just Told me he couldn't give me the clarity that I needed.
- [36:30]
Nick
Okay, and then you said what?
- [36:33]
Rose
I said, thanks for letting me know. Like, I appreciate the honesty.
- [36:38]
Nick
And then that brings us to the present day. So where. Where are you mentally?
- [36:43]
Rose
I actually feel very relieved in a way.
- [36:47]
Nick
As far as you are concerned. Are you. Are you guys still together? Are you kind of. It's. I can't tell whether you. That that response kind of triggered a maybe he's not my guy or you're still trying to figure that out.
- [36:58]
Rose
No, I think maybe he's not my guy. I think if he was my guy, he could give me more clarity. I'm also. I don't have an endless timeline as he does to have kids in the future.
- [37:08]
Nick
Well, I think that's kind of the most important part of the equation. Like, to me, this is kind of like, if nothing else, a conversation about, like, pet peeves and non negotiables. And despite, you know, maybe he's a great guy, maybe you guys have some really good chemistry. Maybe he, in fact cares about you and you care about him, and those are all nice things and important in a relationship. But, like, you also maybe need more and you have some non negotiables. He has some non negotiables. Your non negotiables, it sounds like, are, you know, you want to have a family. You're pretty sure you want to have kids. You know, his non negotiables on some level are his. His relationship with his kids. Right. So to oversimplify, without having spoken to him something about his relationship with his kids and the importance of that, I'm assuming, are non negotiables, which makes a lot of sense, and that has probably created a lot of confusion on his part of like, what should I do? I don't know, you know, messy divorce, messy custody battle. Who. I don't know who's right or who's wrong. He said she said with his wife. But you know, it's been a challenge for him. He's in, you know, 52, kind of middle aged, but probably still young enough to date someone like you and has some money. You know, it's like the offering to pay for your school is like probably just because he can. And it felt like a nice thing and you know, maybe there wasn't that much more meaning behind it and the will see almost probably just more him like just thinking out loud similar to the whole like, you know, community communicating to you like what his daughters, you know, are saying, which is a natural thought from his daughters. But like maybe you didn't need to hear that. You know, him reaching out to you and sending you an email or a text or whatever it was that says I miss you or I think about you, I talk with you and my therapist, I'm sure all feels good.
- [39:03]
Rose
It's like, you know, so dramatic. He also was saying things like I got my sperm tested. Like he was going to another dimension.
- [39:14]
Nick
Yeah, yeah. I mean, and like, and yeah, like it's, it's both maybe flattering and also a little alarming all at the same time.
- [39:21]
Rose
So I actually, I feel like I've made the right choice kind of because he did say I kind of was talking to him about school and he's, he does have the money. It's like no sweat off his back. So he was, he said he'll pay for me to go to school even though we're not dating. And I, I know that he doesn't expect anything from me. So I'm like, well, I feel like it's the best case scenario for a relationship.
- [39:42]
Nick
And that's nice. I don't know, I mean like it, it might. Everything, nothing's free just. I think you should remember that.
- [39:50]
Rose
Yeah.
- [39:50]
Nick
If nothing else, if you meet a nice guy six months from now and it's going well, I don't know how it doesn't come up that your ex is paying for your school somehow. And I imagine he could feel a certain way about it, which it might be something he has to get over, I don't know. But it will feel like it'll be something he'll have to process, that's for sure.
- [40:12]
Rose
Totally.
- [40:13]
Nick
If you really want to be done with this guy. And I don't know, it doesn't sound like you want to be right, but it sounds like you think it's the best thing for you. Having him pay for your school definitely keeps you connected to this person in ways that I think you don't want to maybe fully admit, you know, And I don't know a lot of people who are willing to do such a grand gesture regardless and really has no strings attached, even if that string attaches him feeling good about himself. Keep in mind, too, you've already set a precedent with this guy of getting back together. And it's great that you have been able to, like, speak up, you know, set expectations, enforce some boundaries. But he has been able to get you back in his life at his convenience. And it was probably convenient for you to take a step back when you did, because it became just. Just more of a headache when it came to his custody battle. And then it made sense for him to reach out to you. He missed you, you responded, you were single, and it was probably fud. Now you are saying, hey, I want X, Y, and Z now. And he's just like, I can't give that to you, but I can give you this. Oh, but no expectations. Again, like, I don't. I don't. I'm sure it's not Machiavellian. It's just like, this is what we do in our subconscious brain and how we convince ourselves of doing certain things and why our intentions are this and not that, et cetera, et cetera. But, yeah, I. Listen, it's not the end of the world. I don't. You know, I don't. I don't want to tell you what to do with your money. And I understand that school is expensive and what a very generous gift. It's. Nothing is free. I think it's just. If nothing else, you should just accept that reality. If you do accept this generous gift, to know that you don't may not know what the string attached to it is, but there's definitely something. I kind of agree with that.
- [42:02]
Rose
I mean, I think it's definitely more for his ego. Like, he just feels good about himself.
- [42:06]
Nick
Yeah. I mean, listen, like, you know, it's. And at the end of the day, if all it is is like an unpleasant phone call in the future or a weird conversation with your next boyfriend, you know, maybe it's still worth it. You're just better off accepting that if you do accept this, there may be a headache or two attached to it, and maybe it might be totally worth it, but you're better off mentally preparing yourself than acting surprised. Be like oh, God. I just, like, can't believe this happened. But yeah, yeah, it does sound like you made the right decision. As far as he doesn't seem like he's really ready to give you what you. What deep down you know you want in a relationship. And he's probably got a lot of nice qualities. Your question started with, is it weird that he won't let me meet his kids? I mean, that's, that's such like a. So many variables into that. Because I think it would be understandable for any single parent to be cautious about that. But to your point, which it doesn't match his intensity.
- [43:04]
Rose
Yeah. Because the thing is, is I've always been respectful of meeting them. I never. Because we dated before for five or six months. I never met them then. And then this time I knew it was going to be five or so months. But at first he said, you can meet them in January, and then he changed it to March, and then the. And they were going to the Galapagos in March. And I was like, well, that's fun, but is there, like a weekend that I get to hang out with you guys? And then it was like, well, I don't know. I feel good about sending a message and just being like, what's kind of the plan for the summer, for the future?
- [43:35]
Nick
And then on some level, him keeping you separate from the kids is a signal that he doesn't really want you to be a part of his life. Life and almost wants you to be. Create a separate life with you. And that kind of makes you an escape. It makes you a. Yeah. Kind of like a side project in a way. And I, you know, again, like, I think it's very tricky with kids and single parents, but this is an intense guy who's willing to pay for your school and saying he loves you and has this intensity but like, like keep. And then. And keeps putting off you meeting his kids as opposed to you would. My guess is you would feel. If he had a sincerity where it was like he really wanted you to meet his kids because he really cares about you and really sees a future with you and really wants to, like, do it the right way, but just wants to make sure it's done the right way and you're not feeling that. It sounds like you are feeling like he is finding, you know, you want to meet his kids because you feel like it's the right thing to do and you want to be a part of his life and he really doesn't want to. And so he keeps coming up with new Reasons and excuses why he keeps kicking the can down the road.
- [44:55]
Rose
And he has a parenting coach, he has a therapist, he has this and that. And so I was like, well, why don't we talk to your parenting coach together to like, come up with a plan? And he was like, nope, nope, I can. And I was like, well, that seems like a red flag.
- [45:09]
Nick
Yeah, he doesn't. Yeah, he's not looking to do that. Yeah, I really think that's. He's treating you like a side chick.
- [45:17]
Rose
Yeah, I agree.
- [45:18]
Rosie
Okay.
- [45:18]
Rose
This makes me feel better though, because it's like hard when someone's telling you I love you and I see a future and I'm like, okay, but like, what's the plan? And then you're not hearing anything. So this makes me feel like my gut was telling me the right thing.
- [45:31]
Nick
I see a future with you. And like him saying that sounds like the 50 year old version of a 25 year old boy saying, like, I want to settle down someday, but that someday might be 15 years from now, you know, so he sees, like, what, you know, when you really think about it, what does I see? A future with? You mean, like, I see it, you know, I can picture it, like, you know, it's like when he. When you're sitting across the table with him and having a nice dinner. Oh, I see it because I enjoy my time with you, but he's not doing the things that are creating an environment that makes you feel like you are becoming a part of his work world and he's keeping you separate. And it would make sense at first, maybe. You know, honestly, when I first met Natalie, I was like, I don't know. But, you know, once you decide you want to. If you're gonna. If he's gonna say, I love you and I want to build something with you and I want to pay for your school, but you can't meet my kids and I don't really know when I want to see you and blah. It's like, that doesn't make sense. So now that's giving. Oh, well, how do I make. How do I appease her to shut her up? Because I don't want to give her this, but I can give her that. And that's why to me, like, the paying for your school is like a. Like it's not a normal. You know, it's just. That's a huge gesture for anyone to do. And he is doing it, which he has, like, regardless of his. How much money he has.
- [46:56]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [46:57]
Nick
It's still a huge gesture. And the Fact that it's easy for him to do again, like I said, I think it's just giving, buying you off and keeping you happy. And he can't give you what you really want, so he's willing to give you this. And he knows it's a big gesture and he knows that would be really helpful. And. And there's a way of like needing it, you know, and you know, they out. Well, let's see where it goes. Has more is like that's him saying, well, let's see how I feel about you when the next tuition bills do. I'm not going to guarantee you for four years. You know, it will see is like solely based off of his feelings.
- [47:34]
Rose
Yeah, no, I agree. I feel better about this for sure.
- [47:39]
Nick
And I would be shocked if you got a new boyfriend if he will be still paying for your tuition.
- [47:47]
Rose
That's true.
- [47:48]
Kelsey
That's true.
- [47:49]
Nick
Yeah.
- [47:50]
Rose
Well, also, I'm a twin, so congrats.
- [47:52]
Nick
Oh, really? That's amazing. Fraternal, identical.
- [47:56]
Rose
The best thing ever. I'm a fraternal. I'm an IVF baby, but having a twin is the best.
- [48:01]
Nick
That's amazing. That's awesome. Any. Any tips?
- [48:04]
Rose
I don't know. I mean, my mom just has funny stories. She's like, when y' all were old enough, you would be like flushing pearl necklaces down the toilet together and giggling and just. I don't know. But it's been fun. We went to school together and now he's always trying to get me to move where he lives now. So it's the best.
- [48:21]
Nick
That's awesome. Well, we're excited. Hopefully this was helpful. Keep us posted on as life unfolds and appreciate the well wishes.
- [48:32]
Kelsey
Yay.
- [48:32]
Rose
Thank you. Congrats. Bye, Nick.
- [48:34]
Nick
All right, take care.
- [48:35]
Rosie
Bye. Bye.
- [48:37]
Nick
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- [54:30]
Rosie
Hi, I'm Rosie. I'm 24 years old and I was wondering if I'm compatible with someone. How much does that spark really matter?
- [54:38]
Nick
Okay, well, tell me about it.
- [54:40]
Rosie
So I started talking to someone over a year ago online. We met on a dating app. He lives in a completely different state. And we actually met in person. And we were talking for a year on an office, like friends and flirting. And it was really great. Like, he feels like my best friend. But when we met in person, that like, spark and that, like, initial connection was a little awkward and it was a little off. But he's kind of like the person that I feel like I can tell anything to. And right before he actually came to visit me, he was planning this trip for a while. I met someone else and I actually ended up dating that person and that person. We had like this like, fiery, passionate, like, spark, like whirlwind romance kind of situation, but it like, crashed and burned like within a year, like really badly. And I just got out of that relationship and I'm kind of healing. And the person that feels like my best friend that I didn't necessarily have that spark with is now moving to my state and wants to give it, like, a shot.
- [55:44]
Nick
Okay.
- [55:45]
Rosie
And I kind of don't know what to do.
- [55:47]
Nick
So you never really dated Mr. Best Friend?
- [55:50]
Rosie
No.
- [55:50]
Nick
Okay. And then after you met for the first time, how did that end, so to speak. How did you communicate that kind of awkwardness to the point where it sounded like you ended things and then met this other person?
- [56:05]
Rosie
So I met this other person before. I had only been on, like, three dates with him. Mr. Best Friend was already flying in to see me. That trip was already scheduled. So I was like, you know what? I have to give it a shot with this guy. And in person, it was wonderful. We had a really nice couple days together. But that spark that I felt with the person I ended up dating after wasn't there. I was always attracted to both people, but the person that I ended up dating was in my state. And it kind of ended amicably with Mr. Best Friend because he was, like, in another state, and he didn't figure out his next move yet. He didn't know what he was doing. He was switching jobs. So we just kind of, like, paused that altogether.
- [56:51]
Nick
Anything else?
- [56:53]
Rosie
The sex was kind of awkward, a little bit. Like, I don't know, like, we. With Mr. Best Friend, like, some flirty.
- [57:00]
Nick
Yeah, okay, so you.
- [57:01]
Rosie
Did we have some flirty adventure when
- [57:04]
Nick
you met up, you guys hooked up?
- [57:05]
Rosie
Up? Yeah, we spent, like, four full days together or, like, five.
- [57:10]
Nick
And, like, what do you. What do you mean by awkward? Like, bad or, you know, when, like, you.
- [57:15]
Rosie
No, not. Not bad. But, like, you know when you kiss someone for the first time and it's like that, like. Oh, wow. Like, you're like, butterfly.
- [57:22]
Nick
Yeah.
- [57:23]
Rosie
Situation. Like, that wasn't there. But also, I feel like I always have been drawn to, like, toxic relationships where there's always that, like, really, like, passionate, like, start, and then it just, like, completely fails. Like, he is just. He's, like, the quintessential nice guy. Like, my best friend, he's such a sweet, like, good man. But, like, I don't know if that's, like, enough. I don't know if I should, like, give it a shot or I should wait. I don't know what to do. I know I'm, like, young, but.
- [57:50]
Nick
Yeah, well, I think that's important to remember that you're, you know, kind of still figuring things out, you know, and that's okay in terms of, like, what you're looking for? Like, what's your dating history look like in general? General.
- [58:01]
Rosie
So I have always just kind of been, like, a relationship girl. Like, I've never really been, like, single for too long. I mean, I've always kind of known what I wanted. And I come from, like, an immigrant family where, you know, you don't really date around Too much and you get married young. And so I like, I've always jumped from guy to guy trying to find like something. And it's always been like really toxic relationships. One of my exes had bpd, the most recent one.
- [58:30]
Nick
What's bpd?
- [58:31]
Rosie
Really sweet.
- [58:32]
Nick
What is that?
- [58:32]
Rosie
Borderline personality disorder. It's similar to bipolar and it was undiagnosed, so that was like a train wreck. And the one that I. The most recent ex, I. It was really disappointing because I loved him a lot, but we were just on completely different, like, wavelengths when it comes to life. And it was just getting really toxic really fast within a year. So we kind of cut it off about like two months ago.
- [58:58]
Nick
What's stopping you from this guy who's coming out? Just being open to the possibility of, I mean, also like, what, what is the cadence of communication you have with Mr. Best Friend these days?
- [59:11]
Rosie
Since I got out of my relationship, like every day.
- [59:14]
Nick
Every day. And when you were in that relationship, I'm assuming Mr. Best Friend you weren't talking to?
- [59:21]
Rosie
No, no. Like, he, he's been kind of like my short, like, shoulder to cry on, for lack of a better word. And he's always been very, like, he's older. He's always liked me. He's kind of been pining for me. How much older? I've been in a relationship six years older.
- [59:41]
Nick
Okay, Are you talking about other relationships with him?
- [59:45]
Rosie
What do you mean?
- [59:46]
Nick
Like these toxic, you know. Your last boyfriend. How much have you opened up to Mr. Best Friend about your last boyfriend?
- [59:53]
Rosie
A lot. To the point that he's kind of like my therapist, which I don't know is like, like a good thing. You know, starting off like he knows everything about my failed relationship and he's like, it's like a weird dynamic where he is my friend. So we do have that, like, friendly, like, conversation. He has been there for me and like supported me through this breakup, but at the same time he's always been like, I really want to give this a shot. And I think like, we could really be like, great together.
- [60:20]
Nick
Does he recognize his. Does he recognize when he's giving you advice or trying to be. Trying to listen and just kind of be a support system for you? Which is all well intentioned, no doubt. Does he recognize his biasness in a way?
- [60:35]
Rosie
Yeah, he does. He does. He tries to remove himself for the situation, but he's always been a very good communicator. I've actually. We got into a fight the other day for the first time. It was our first fight and the way that he resolved it was really mature. And I've always had that issue with partners in communication.
- [60:54]
Nick
How did he resolve it?
- [60:57]
Rosie
He took accountability. It was essentially. I found out that one of his friends that I had previously known about was actually an ex that he dated for three years. And he kind of. He talked about this person a lot, and essentially, like, didn't tell me that that was his ex.
- [61:15]
Nick
Gotcha.
- [61:15]
Rosie
And, like, I felt like I was kind of lied to, a little misled about who this person is in there in his life, and he's like, you know what? I was being a coward. I didn't know how to tell you. I'm so sorry. Never do it again. Like accountability. Very mature. So I was like, that's new. That's different. I'm usually used to people not taking accountability.
- [61:36]
Nick
Okay, well, listen, I. You know, I don't think as far as, like, what do you have to lose? Is the short answer to seeing where this.
- [61:46]
Rosie
My sanity.
- [61:48]
Nick
Okay, fair. Why? Why? Why your sanity?
- [61:51]
Rosie
Because I feel like he's the only good, genuinely good person. If I had to pick the best person I know, it would be him. And I'm so scared that if I start this with him, it's either going to end or it's going to go great. And if it ends, I feel like I don't know if I can take any more of disappointment. And I know I'm only 24, but I feel like I've been disappointed so much, I'm about to be a bitter cat lady at the age of 25.
- [62:21]
Nick
Well, give yourself some grace. You know, I think the hardest part, you know, it's saying at your age or whatever. I guess it doesn't matter at any age, but I think your feelings are normal. And after, you know, disappointment. Yeah. Like, you don't want to be disappointed again. The bad news, I guess, for you is, like, you're just gonna have to get used to this in a way. And I think you're more resilient. You're more resilient than I think you're giving yourself credit for. All right? And what you described is this part of the process of, like, finding your person, you know? And I. You know, like, when you say. When I. When I hear you, you saying this, it's like, I almost want to be like, well, duh, you know, like, yes, of course it's either gonna go really well or. Or it's gonna end and you're gonna be really sad, you know, but if you're not willing to to, to risk your feelings, risk your heart, then you probably will never find what you're looking for, you know, and that's kind of the catch 22 of, of dating and being vulnerable.
- [63:26]
Rosie
You know, I've also talked about this with my therapist and she kind of said that I get bored. Like he's like, he's too nice. That like he just kind of gives me whatever I want and I'm really used to that like toxicity, you know, and he's just like, just a sweetheart. Like there's not, it's not too difficult with him, it's too easy and that like, I guess I crave that like fire, I don't know. That like passion, that push and pull. I mean I'm. At least, I know that I'm like self aware of that fact at least, but I don't know. Well, he's also not usually my type.
- [63:59]
Nick
What do you mean by that?
- [64:01]
Rosie
Like physically he's not my type. Like he's a good looking dude and I, I think that once he comes to my city and he's going to be a single bachelor, he'll, he'll have no problem picking up guys. He's 6 2, which is rare to find in my city and he's a good looking guy, but just, I don't know, I don't initially have that.
- [64:18]
Nick
I'm assuming you mean he will have no problem picking it up. Women. You said guys, but yeah, it's okay. Never know.
- [64:25]
Rosie
You know women.
- [64:26]
Nick
Well, I would say that it's a lot easier to listen. We all have to train our future partners, right? You know, when we meet someone, they're strangers, we get to know them. Hopefully there's a lot of compatibility to work with. But people have to learn you and you have to learn them and you're going to meet people, whoever they are, where it's like not a perfect situation or you have different expectations of what you like or don't like and then you communicate that, whether that's your emotional needs, your physical needs in the bedroom, so to speak, you know, and things like that. And I think it's a lot easier to potentially using Mr. Best Friend as an example. You've listed a lot of like pros and cons, right? You know, I like this about him, I don't like this about him. Right. And they're all valid, right? You know, just because you've recognized that the things that maybe you have liked in the past with other relationships, you've also connected a little bit of toxicity to that, that I don't think you can completely discount them as, like, valid wants and needs. Right? Like, everyone likes to be challenged in relationships, right? Everyone likes to be pushed. Right? We want to find our equal, right? We want, you know, and there's a balance there. It's a dance, right? And I, you know, I guess I'm just saying it's a probably, It's a. It's probably going to be easier and healthier, hopefully that he could be someone who you could give this feedback to, right? And then they could sit with it bit and try to do something about that. And that feedback might, you know, think one, things might change as you guys get into a relationship. You know, he's, he's, he, he's here. But, you know, it could just be giving him a voice to push back. Right. Right now it's hard to evaluate how you guys would be in a relationship because you've never been in a relationship. You've had. You have a relationship, you've built this friendship, but he's still, like, pursuing you.
- [66:27]
Rosie
You.
- [66:28]
Nick
He's still trying to win your affection over. And how he will be once he has you, quote, unquote. You know, he has that security of like, this is my girlfriend, and I feel secure in that. And I'm not waking up every day hoping she likes me, wondering if she likes me, et cetera, et cetera. Could easily change his attitude for the better in a way that he finds more of a voice and pushes back and communicates what he likes and doesn't like. And he might feel a little reluctant to do that now because he's just, like, not sure how you feel about him. So there's that element. Yeah, that makes sense.
- [67:04]
Rosie
I think I'm just hung up. Yeah, I'm just hung up on. Like, with my last relationship, it was. I kind of had that feeling where people say, like, oh, you think it's the one. Like, I felt that at first with Mr. Very, like, romantic. No, no, no. With, like, the person I dated after I ended things. Gotcha. My best friend, like, the person that I dated for the past, like, year, and it didn't work out. And I think I was so excited and I was so, like, butterflies. And I was so, like, enamored by this person. And then it just, like, crashed so hard that with my best friend, now, I don't really feel those, like, butterflies. He's just, like, reliable. Like, he's like the rock, you know? And I was like, I don't want to feel like I may be settling for something that's Comfortable and safe. I don't know. I don't know how important that, like, spark and that, like, passion, like, is in the beginning or if that's something that can, like, grow, because I've never really experienced the growing part of it.
- [68:02]
Nick
Yeah, I mean, well, most of the time we don't give ourselves or the relationships we enter in a chance to grow because so we so often rely so heavily on that spark. Right. The unexplainable. I don't know why I feel the way I do, but I feel this yearning for this person. But, you know, know, we've heard this from a lot of relationship experts about what that spark could potentially mean. And again, a lot. And I do, like, agree with it, where it's just, like, often it's a trigger. It's an emotional response to feeling a little insecure. And I'll feel like, you know, it's just like, I don't know how this person feels about me. And you feel like so many of your feelings are based off of this intangible feeling, and then you want to keep that. That. But there's nothing really supporting that feeling other than you're really super physically attracted to them. They have a way of making you feel a little like, how do they feel about me? And then you kind of yearn for that more. Right. And it's kind of. It could be a. It's sometimes like a toxic response of, like, your body letting you know that this is, like, a little dangerous and a little uncertain. But that's exciting, you know, and things like that. That, you know, and at. And when we're younger, we just. We kind of ignore the. The warning signs and lean into the. The excitement of it all. So, Mo, there's a good chance.
- [69:25]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [69:25]
Nick
That the, the, you know, I don't want to say the spark doesn't matter, but I, I've, you know, I. I said this in my book, like, compatibility is way more important. Chemistry is also really hard to trust. Chemistry is often manufactured. You might have chemistry with someone because you, you know, you mentioned you have immigrant parents. You know, I don't know what. But, like, maybe you met someone who has a similar background and you feel very connected to that. Right. They go to the same church, you have similar friends. You, you know, something like that, where it just feels like. Right. You know, but there's nearly nothing behind it, so to speak, that makes. Am I making any sense?
- [70:00]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [70:01]
Nick
And so go ahead.
- [70:02]
Rosie
Definitely. I think it's literally the opposite problem with the best friend that I have this compatibility And I'm not sure about. About the chemistry part.
- [70:10]
Nick
Yeah.
- [70:11]
Rosie
Especially like, when we kiss. Like, I had to almost. I never done this with, like, an older man having to be like, oh, like kiss differently or I don't. Like, I had to, like, kind of coach him a little bit. It was just like. It was a situation where almost like, our lips did not, like, align. I don't even know how to explain it, but it wasn't that immediate. Like, I'm enamored with this situation.
- [70:32]
Nick
It's fun to meet someone long distance because there's a lot of unique benefits to that. Right? There's a. It takes away some of the pressure that comes with, like, physically meeting someone on a first date and that awkwardness. Right. And you can kind of. You can slow things down and you're forced to talk about more emotional things rather than sexual things at first. And there's. It. It makes a lot of sense. You can build this bond and friendship. The handful of women throughout my dating life that I met in similar ways that you had where there was. We would talk often on the phone and we'd get to know each other, and then later down the line, we met up in person. There has never been a time where that happened for me where there wasn't a little awkwardness or weirdness with that. And I think that also comes from. On one side, you have this deep connection with someone. You know them, you talk to them all the time. There's a familiarity. And with that familiarity comes greater expectations. No doubt that when you guys met up in person for the first time, there were huge expectations that you both had. Right. What is this going to be like? Is it going to. Is it going to match how I felt when I talked about them and things like that? But yet on the flip side, you still have never met them in person, you know, and it's just like there's so much built up pressure and expectation, it's almost impossible for it not to be awkward. Awkward. Right. You know, and I think that's a. I think that's pretty common. So I'm not surprised to hear that, like, when you first met, it was a little weird and a little awkward and you're both nervous and it's like a, Should I feel this way? Should I not feel this way? Am I doing it right? If I might, am I not doing it right? I think that's pretty common.
- [72:18]
Rose
Okay.
- [72:19]
Rosie
Because I've never had that situation before. I've never met someone long distance, so I feel like I know them so well. But like, also don't know them. Yeah. At all in real life.
- [72:28]
Nick
So there's a weirdness behind a weird situation.
- [72:30]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [72:31]
Nick
And I think that's pretty common again, because it's like, it's. And for you guys, right. Like, I, when I met my wife, we talked for two weeks and then met in person. So there wasn't like a huge rapport there that we had. But like other women in my past were, you know, we, we met up, you know, after we really got to know each other. There is a, there can be a weirdness there, there, you know, so.
- [72:54]
Rosie
Okay, that's good. That makes me feel better now.
- [72:56]
Nick
That doesn't mean that you're meant to be together. It's just more. I, I don't think awkwardness at first is a, is a necessarily a bad thing or it means, oh, we're not, we don't have chemistry. I do, I do, I do feel confident and think that chemistry can be built. And, and the chemistry that really matters often needs to be built, you know, because the chemistry we feel initially has really nothing to do with who they are as a person, you know, and how they're going to provide or support you in a relationship and things like that. And that's why often when we meet someone that we feel this intense chemistry with, and then we jump into a relationship solely based off this chemistry, it feels almost like we're lied to because we are. Our experience doesn't match this intense chemistry feel. And by experience, I mean, you know, you start fighting quickly. There's a lot of toxicity, things like that. And you, you, you know, you're just like, well, why don't I feel good about this when I'm excited about this person or I'm in, you know, and things like that. And that's just because it's mostly like ego driven decisions. When you're, when you meet someone initially you feel that chemistry and that spark, that chemistry and that nervousness is mostly your ego being like, you need to prove to yourself that you can win this person, you know, and, and type of stuff.
- [74:20]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [74:21]
Nick
Does that make sense?
- [74:21]
Rosie
I think it's also because he's coming for Valentine's Day to see me and I'm gonna be two months out of that relationship. So I'm kind of just like overanalyzing the situation, wondering if it's also like, maybe too soon to move on or I don't know if it is too soon or how much of a chance I should give this, especially if I didn't feel that chemistry at first, I don't, like, just kind of all over the place with anxiety.
- [74:51]
Nick
Totally. Well, one, I think two. There two different things, right? I think it can both be too soon for you, right? You're not ready to fully move on. You're not fully healed from that relationship. You are talking, you know, and then two, he might be someone that it would make sense to pursue, but maybe you're not ready. The problem you guys are having is, like, you've already entered back into this friendship. You're talking every day. You have this rapport, and. And it's like. And that's where you feel this pressure of, like, you're getting yourself into a situation, you're enjoying the comforts of his companionship, you enjoy talking to him. You know, he really is. He's serving a purpose for you, and it's helpful. Right? But deep down, you know, and he knows that it's not completely like, you know, he's not your therapist. He doesn't. He's not disconnected from the outcome. You know, He.
- [75:45]
Rosie
He.
- [75:46]
Nick
He's invested in what you decide. And clearly that probably makes you feel a little uncomfortable, you know, even though he's like, hey, you don't owe me anything. It's like, yeah, but I know what you want, you know, type of thing. And there's. There's a little bit of pressure there in general. Like, people you date. I would. I would. People you're considering dating or people you date. You know, just be careful how much you're opening up about past relationships. You know, it's one thing to, like, let your new partner know about your relationship history or things you've. And let them in, but they might not be the person who you really count on to, like, help you process all those feelings, if that makes sense.
- [76:25]
Rosie
Yeah, he was, though, like, that shift has already said, like, he was the person that helped me process how my previous relationship ended, mainly because I felt like he had the. It was nice coming from, like, a guy's perspective and having, like, a really emotionally, like, mature person kind of validate, like, hey, I'm not asking for too much from my ex. This. This was like, I had, like, every right to be upset about what happened, because there's one thing talking to your girlfriends about it, and there's another talking to a man that understands you. And, like, he tried to remove himself the best.
- [76:58]
Nick
Like, no, I get it. Like, it's not a perfect situation, but, like, I still think there's something to be said about maybe slowing down there and making sure that. And And. And. And let him know. And again, if he's really this emotional, mature person that you think he is.
- [77:13]
Kelsey
Is.
- [77:14]
Nick
Then he should be able to understand, you know, and that will probably make you feel better about things.
- [77:20]
Rosie
You know, he's not fully moving in until months later, so he's just coming to, like, visit me and see me fully moving to.
- [77:28]
Nick
By himself. He's not moving in with you, correct?
- [77:31]
Rosie
No, no. But my. My city. My city. Yeah. From another state.
- [77:35]
Nick
So is Valentine's Day a coincidence, or is he coming to spend Valentine's with.
- [77:41]
Rosie
He wanted to see me because it's been like, about a year since we've seen each other, and it just happened to be a coincidence because there's President's Day after, so he had the day to take on Monday. But also, I'm sure he does want to spend Valentine's Day with me. I don't know. He probably planned something.
- [77:56]
Nick
Well, I mean, that's. And how does that make you feel?
- [77:59]
Rosie
Excited and scared. Because I feel like I just spent the holidays with my ex, and then this really sweet, wonderful man is coming, and I just. I'm not even sure if I like, like, fully, like, like him that much. And I know he's in on me.
- [78:14]
Nick
Yeah.
- [78:15]
Rosie
A lot going on.
- [78:16]
Nick
Well, that excited. Excited and scared feeling that you're feeling is normal, but also probably speaks to that toxic side that you talked about, because it's like, you. There's a. It sounds like there's a part of you that deep down knows that, like, this could get a little bit messy. This might not be the smartest decision, but. Hey, Valentine, like, I, you know, I want to. I won't be alone on Valentine's Day, and he's a really nice guy, and I'll probably have fun and, you know, but, like. And the nervousness is also kind of excitement and yolo, you know?
- [78:50]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [78:51]
Nick
Because to me, it's like, the smart thing to do would be to, like, set some healthy boundaries with this guy and right off the bat, just be like, I. I am excited to see, you know, have you talked to him about these feelings towards him?
- [79:04]
Rosie
I mean, not really, because I don't know how to explain to a guy that really likes me that I'm not sure if I. I really like him. It's like a weird conversation I have that I. I know I could have it. Like, I know that he could take those emotions, but I just don't know how to, like, word that.
- [79:21]
Nick
Okay, well, we can. We can workshop it. Like, how. Just try it out. What let. I'm him. We're sitting down. And what. What would you like to say to me to just. Just take some of the pressure off of the first time meeting up again, and you want to communicate in a healthy way that doesn't hurt his feelings, but makes him understand where you're coming from?
- [79:46]
Rosie
Do I say that I want to spend Valentine's Day as friends or that he means a lot to me, but I'd want to maybe see how we're more so in person before we take that next step. Step.
- [80:02]
Nick
Something like that.
- [80:03]
Rosie
Something like that, you want.
- [80:04]
Nick
You know, it's like. It's like when you're delivering bad news, you always want to sandwich it in between, like, something pot, you know, the whole, like, sandwich. It's just like, hit him with something nice in the middle. It's like, hey, by the way, I'm just not sure, you know, my. My feelings are a little confused and. But by the way, you're. You're great. Something like that. You know, I would probably. It would be. It would probably be something like this, where you're just like, can I talk to you about. About us? You know, and then you start by saying everything you value. You know, this is what I think about you and I. My. Our. Our. My friendship with you matters a lot to me, and you've really been there for me, and I see a lot of great qualities in you, and it's new for me, to be honest with you, you know, a little bit about my dating history. Obviously, I've been in some toxic relationships, and what I value about our relationship is I don't have a lot of those toxic, toxic feelings with you. On the flip side, I, you know, I. As you know, I just got out of this relationship, and I don't want to pretend that I'm not fully healed from that, you know, And I just really want to take things slow because I do think we have this rapport. But when in. In terms of us being, like, actually a couple, I'm still processing those feelings. And when you come into town, I really just want to take things really slow, and I just don't want to have any expectations, and I don't want to, like, play boyfriend and girlfriend and things like that and. And just kind of talk about the pace, rather, you know, you don't have to say, like, I really like you, but I'm not sure how I feel about you, our chemistry, you know, you don't have to hit him with that. It can just be. I'm not totally healed Yet. And I really want to take things slow. And if I do explore this with you, I just. I. I really. I want to do things differently than I have in the past. And something like that, you know.
- [81:54]
Rosie
Yeah. That I don't want to play boyfriend and girlfriend is a really good thing to say. I feel like that's how I feel.
- [81:59]
Nick
Yeah. And just kind of go from there, you know? It's just like, you do have the right to slow things down without him getting so bent out of shape about it. And if he really is this emotional, mature guy that you think he is, he'll understand.
- [82:12]
Rosie
Yeah, he. He keeps bringing up my ex a lot, which you. You were right when you said maybe don't talk to a new potential partner about your past relationships, because he does bring that up. And how.
- [82:23]
Nick
And, like, what?
- [82:24]
Rosie
Like, I don't even want to think about that. Like, asking me some questions. Like, if we're flirting, he'd be like, oh, did he do that? Or like. Like little. Little comments wondering how my relationship was with my ex. And I'm like, I don't want to talk about him. Him anymore.
- [82:41]
Nick
You said that to him?
- [82:42]
Rosie
Yeah. Like, I don't want to talk about my ex.
- [82:43]
Nick
And what's. What's his response to that?
- [82:45]
Rosie
He said fair, and then he kind of just, like, keeps bringing it up. I think he's just curious because he's heard so much about him and the relationship just ended. I don't think this is good. If you and I were to ever be a thing, you shouldn't be, like, asking details about the good things of my last relationship.
- [83:02]
Nick
And what did he say?
- [83:03]
Rosie
I didn't say that part to him. I just kind of said that I don't. I said it once, like, I don't really want to talk about it anymore. And he. He just kind of, like, still asks questions every once in a while, and sometimes I answer. Sometimes I, like, try to change the topic of conversation.
- [83:16]
Nick
Okay. Well, yeah, I think that that's where you could say something like, listen, I know I've counted on you to talk about this relationship, so that's on me. So I don't want to make you feel like you're doing something wrong. But, like, you said, like, I don't. I just want to be totally honest. I just. I. This is it. Our relationship and how we started this relationship in this friendship is very different for me. And it's just, like. It's different, and I'm processing that, and I really need to take things slow, and I can't Promise you how I'm going to feel. But I really appreciate how you know and tell them what you appreciate about it. But. Well, I know I've asked you and counted on you in the past. Talk about my past feelings. It. You know, because I do like you and I do consider. I do think about the possibility of us being more than what we are now. I don't want you to be my therapist, you know, and I don't want you to be my best guy friend potentially. And he should like that, you know, without the promise or the guarantee that this. You know, you're saying this because you want to move forward with him. You're just kind of laying the groundwork for the possibility of moving forward with him, and he should totally understand that. And again, his bringing it up is now he's kind of like. He's probably in this kind of confused state of, like, I got the green light to ask her about this stuff, and now he's a little confused. And maybe he's trying to not do what your ex did, you know, and he's kind of like, maybe in the weeds of, you know, he's not really sure what to do. So I think you guys just need. Yeah, you know, you probably need to speak up a little bit more about how you're feeling with the confidence of knowing that there's no wrong way for you to feel. You know, these are all natural feelings. Feelings, but you're just. You're not totally confident communicating it with him because, you know, you kind of like him, but you're not sure, you know, he likes you. He's also played this role of friend and therapist that has been beneficial at times, but then sometimes feels a little weird because of, you know, how the relationship's going. And I think you guys just need to talk about that and put it out there and see how he is, how he. How he responds.
- [85:25]
Rosie
Yeah, I. I feel like definitely, I also. It'd be curious to see him. I thought maybe when he comes here that he should be maybe single for a little bit because I wanted to see, like, would I be jealous if I see him flirting with another girl at a bar or something? Like, would I, like. I don't know, maybe I just, like, really want that, like, passion. I don't know that I'm trying to, like, manufacture it, but he's just, like, very, like, I don't want to be single, like, if you're open to it, like, I want to date you. Like, he's very in on me. So much so that it Kind of, like, scares me a little bit.
- [85:58]
Nick
Okay. Have you told him that?
- [86:00]
Rosie
I said, it's a little overwhelming.
- [86:02]
Nick
Okay.
- [86:03]
Rosie
And then what was like, there was a. He makes, like, these jokes sometimes that can be a little too much where I was like, I saw this post that's like, ask your partner what nickname they've always wanted to call you. And I asked him that, and he goes, wife.
- [86:19]
Nick
Well, you kind of set yourself up there.
- [86:21]
Rosie
Yeah, but I didn't think that would be the response, you know, like, I thought, like, darling or like something. I don't know, something corny. I didn't think it would be like, wife. I was like, oh, okay. So he's very, like, open and honest. That he's, like, waiting for me. And that, like, freaks me out, like, a tad bit.
- [86:36]
Nick
Yeah. Pretty natural response.
- [86:41]
Rosie
But I don't want to lose a good guy, you know, that's the thing. Like, I don't.
- [86:44]
Kelsey
I don't.
- [86:45]
Rosie
I don't want to push him away. I don't want to lose out on, like, a. Like a really genuinely nice guy that I feel, like, safe with.
- [86:51]
Nick
Yeah, those are really great qualities to have in a relationship. I think you just probably. I think you just need to take the pressure. Try to take the pressure off yourself and this relationship. And I think the only way to do that is just try to communicate with him. And again, what you have with this guy is, for the most part, like, these open lines of healthy communication. But when. When. When it really requires honesty from you about how you feel, you're not taking advantage of that open line, that communication with him. If that makes sense.
- [87:24]
Rosie
Yeah, you know? Yeah, that makes sense.
- [87:26]
Nick
And just try it out. Try to, you know, see how he feels.
- [87:32]
Rose
Okay.
- [87:33]
Nick
Yeah, that's a. That's a good idea, I think, you know, like, this. If you do, assuming you hang out with him, it would probably be best to keep things slow on the physical side.
- [87:43]
Rosie
Okay.
- [87:44]
Nick
I mean, do what you want, obviously, but, like, just try not to add unnecessary pressure, you know? I think, you know, it, like, it would make sense for you to be like, oh, yeah, the first time we hooked up, it was a little awkward. Let's see how the second time we hook up is. But there's a good chance you're still gonna have that awkwardness because of that pressure, you know, it's just like, oh, well, this time it needs to be really good and like, ah, my God, that's gonna be. Be gonna be tough, you know?
- [88:09]
Rosie
Yeah, that's kind of how I feel. I'm thinking, like, I really hope it's, like, goes off without a hitch this
- [88:14]
Nick
time, like, kind of situation, but it might be. It might be. It will be a real challenge for it not to be awkward because I think you have. There's so much pressure built up by both of you to make this time work as opposed to, like, I don't know, just some random spur of the moment feeling where it just feels organic panic.
- [88:35]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [88:36]
Nick
So, okay, yeah, I would maybe, like, slow that down. And listen, if it feels like you're better off going into that situation, I'm gonna take it really slow. We're not gonna get physical. Maybe there's a hand hold there. I don't know. And listen, if the moment strikes and it feels like a real, like, passionate moment, yolo, go for it. Right? That's different than, like, almost, like, all right, we're gonna hang out, and I guess tonight we'll hook up and I guess we'll see how it goes and. You know what I'm saying? And kind of, like, out in your brain, it's almost impossible for it not to be awkward.
- [89:12]
Rosie
Yeah. I'm a planner and a control freak, so that. That makes sense. I need to, like, go with the flow, I guess, my. To the best of my ability.
- [89:19]
Nick
And. Yeah, good that you have. Maybe your plan should be to not do something, you know, and to hold off, and it could always wait. And, you know, if it's right, then it will happen at the right time. And if it doesn't feel right, then you probably won't regret not hooking up with them. You know, that can always. That can always come. But you've had great sex with bad partners before, Right? So the quality of sex up front doesn't really predict a healthy relationship, you know, and it's a bit misleading because obviously we want great sex with our partner. You know, it's like you. That feels like a minimum, but I think sometimes we put the cart before the horse, and then we'll. We'll feel this, like, insane chemistry treat. We have great with sex with someone, and so much of our desire to make a relationship work is based off this intense chemistry and great sex. But, like, you know, you don't know how to communicate. You don't know how to solve problems. You don't feel like it's a safe space to open up. They get easily triggered. They react and things like that. And next thing you know, you have this kind of toxic relationship.
- [90:21]
Rosie
Yeah, you just described my ex in, like, one sentence. Like, great sex, great chemistry, Very, like, romantic dates. But when it came to, like, communication and. And speaking my feelings, it was like, invalidating my feelings.
- [90:35]
Nick
Yeah.
- [90:35]
Rosie
All the toxic cycles.
- [90:37]
Nick
So, yeah, I think this is just a new. It's. Quite honestly, this is like a new and generally healthier way to approach a relationship. It's just, like, so untraditional and kind of boring in a way.
- [90:50]
Rosie
Yeah, it's boring. I said that. I said that out loud to one of my friends. I was like, this feels a little boring.
- [90:54]
Nick
But you know that it. It's. It's not that boring, you know, because you still have the uncertainty and conf. You know, it's just a little. And I don't run from boring, I guess is probably the biggest takeaway you can decide it's not for you. But boredom, you know, boredom can be a great part of a relationship. To feel bored and content with someone is generally a good sign. You know, you're always going to get bored at some point, you know. Is this helpful at all?
- [91:20]
Rose
I don't know.
- [91:22]
Rosie
Yeah, that was really helpful. I think you just, like, validated that, like. Like, it's okay for things to get boring and just kind of see where it goes and play it out. And I will, like, talk to him about slowing things down.
- [91:34]
Nick
Yeah. I think for you guys, it's just really important for you to feel safe and comfortable with you setting healthy boundaries for yourself, knowing that some of those boundaries might be frustrating for him to hear, potentially upsetting. And there's that part of you, probably, that is used to, like, these toxic relationships and not speaking up when things feel off and hoping they go away. And you're kind of mimicking that pattern with this healthy relationship.
- [92:06]
Rosie
It's actually the opposite. I've, like, spoken up. I'm like, I don't hold things in. I usually speak up so much, but it always gets shut down or invalidated. Like, I would bring things up to all my exes before, and I'd always communicate how I feel. I'm not the type of girl that kind of just holds it in. I try to communicate in the best, nicest way. And it would just get, like, shut down or, like, ignored or invalidated or. What about. He would be like, well, what about my feelings? And I'm like, sure, well, can we get to yours after we discuss mine? Like, that kind of situation. So now that I have, like, I don't know, a nice guy. I don't know, for some reason I'm, like, a little more scared to open up. I guess I'm, like, scared of that happening again. Okay.
- [92:48]
Nick
We'll try to out.
- [92:49]
Rosie
I don't know why.
- [92:50]
Nick
Well, I mean. Well, you know why. Because it hasn't, you know, because you have a history of it. Being disappointed when you try to express your feelings.
- [92:59]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [93:00]
Nick
You know, hopefully this time's different.
- [93:02]
Rosie
We'll see.
- [93:02]
Nick
Yeah, we'll see. But, you know, listen, give yourself grace. You are only 24. That doesn't mean you have to discount yourself or. Or discredit your experiences and your. Your knowledge about what you need and don't need. But. But it. You also can just be patient and give yourself grace that like, you know, you just haven't found your person and, you know, you're only two months removed from this painful breakup. That's normal. It might make, you know, maybe in a weird way, your desire to have, you know, like you want him to be single for a while and maybe get jealous, but maybe. Maybe that's you also telling yourself, I want to be single for a while. And I'm so used to, like, jumping in and out of relationships, and I barely even healed from this past relationship, and I have this guy I have this huge familiarity with who is really pursuing me hard, and right now he's on some kind of timeline of us becoming a couple, and I'm not even healed yet. So how am I going to heal from this relationship while I'm trying to figure out whether this next relationship is good for me?
- [94:10]
Rosie
How do you know when you're healed? I feel like that's. Like I never really understood that part.
- [94:15]
Nick
So, you know, there's no know. It's a process. You know, I guess it's more than anything how much time, you know, you just think about it less and less. You know, it comes up less and less, you know, the. When you are triggered by whatever. Right now, I'm guessing when you're triggered, relationship wise, there's. It brings up a lot of past memories from this relation, this past relationship. Right. You know, you hear a song, you see something that reminds you of something. It can be a little triggering. You feel it in your body and just you have a little anxiety, you know, and that's kind of like a sign of me or not being healed. You know, over time, you. When you get triggered by something, eventually you will. Something that's triggered you in the. In the past couple months, you feel something. Three or four months from now, you might be triggered by something similar. And you will realize I'm less bothered by that. I didn't have to reach out to a friend or talk to my therapist about It. And things like that, you know, you. You're able to process it pretty quickly and. And by yourself, you know, and usually that's a sign of you healing.
- [95:20]
Rosie
Yeah, I don't really reach out to friends anymore about, like, my past breakup. It's like I. I do kind of just process it and move on because the disappointment was already building in the relationship. It's not something that just kind of happened out of nowhere. So I guess I started processing it during. Yeah.
- [95:37]
Nick
And you're probably, like, for the most part, mostly healed. Right? Like, you know, that relationship. Relationship wasn't right for you. You're not, you know, so much of that first. You know, like, you talk about acceptance. You know, a lot of times when we have a hard time moving on, it's because we haven't accepted that the relationship that ended needed to end. Right. You know, we're sad. We're. You know, we feel rejected. So sometimes we ignore, you know, all the obvious signs of, like, this relationship wasn't good for me. But you feel rejected, maybe because they left or whatever. You feel like they stole your power. So you're. You're. You're more processing, like, the why, you know, why did this end? As opposed to, like, you know, and. But deep down, you know, well, the why. The why is this wasn't a good relationship for me. But your ego's bruised and things like that. But it doesn't sound like that's where you're at. You. You know the why. Right. You're not sitting there being, like, wondering if. If, oh, well, if he fixes this and I fix that, maybe we can be better. You know, you're not. You're not. You're just kind of sad, and it hurt a little bit. And right now you're. You're. Or maybe your healing has more to do with the fact that, like, that pain, still relatively raw, like, you've accepted it as maybe the right and healthy thing, but it still hurts. Right. You know, and so, yeah, maybe you are. It sounds like maybe you're just on the path and all you need is a little bit of time. You know, time to, like. Because right now you're juggling your emotional feelings about the breakup and then how you feel about him. Him. All while also considering his feelings. And you're. While he's not your boyfriend, you still have a relationship with him, and you feel some kind of obligation to care for him emotionally.
- [97:18]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [97:18]
Nick
And. And that's a relationship of some kind. And that's pressure. Right. You know, and you're not quite ready to be juggling your feelings of sadness while also juggling his feelings and making sure he's okay while he makes sure you're okay. You're just not ready for that yet.
- [97:38]
Rosie
Yeah, it's a mess.
- [97:39]
Nick
Yeah, well, no, you know, it's not a mess. It's just. It's just where you're at, and that's okay, you know? You know, like, you don't have to conflate something more than it is. Like, it's. I think everything you're going through right now is totally normal. And it's. It's okay.
- [97:53]
Rosie
I just don't have a lot of friends that went through this. Like, all my friends kind of found their person really early on, and I feel like I'm like the train wreck of relationships. And.
- [98:02]
Nick
Well, that's where you need to give yourself a ton of grace. You. That's where you have to. I am only 24, and congratulations to my friends who found their person. And while I don't wish any negativity on your friends in their relationship, you don't know how those relationships are going to play out. Right? Statistics tell you that half of those relationships won't work out. You're not here to root for them or against them. You're just happy for them. But like, as you know, the comp comparison is the thief of joy. And their ability to find people when they found people has nothing to do with. Do with your relationship happiness and things like that. And part of maturity is just kind of your ability to separate, you know, the relationships around you in your relationship, be happy for them without being sad for yourself or comparing yourself or telling yourself that you're doing something wrong. You have different standards, expectations, desires, dreams that are. Are probably different than your friends, and it's just, you know, a little bit of luck. But definitely don't compare yourself. You're not some mess. You, you know, you're only 24 and. And you've taken some risks. They didn't work out. You've learned a little bit along the way. You are learning things about your emotional needs that your friends haven't learned yet, you know, quite frankly, you know, and they're like, if one of these friends three years from now realizes they don't want to be with their person or things happen and they get disappointed, you might be a great friend to them because you have a experience in this that they don't have yet, you know, and that's just kind of part of life, you know. So instead of telling yourself that you're this, this mess of a dater and that you have, you don't have, all your friends have their figured out and you're just a hot mess. Maybe just give yourself a little grace and say like this is where I'm at today and it's okay. I'm only 24, I still have plenty of time. I've learned a lot about myself self in the relationships that serve me and don't serve me. And while like yeah, it would be nice to have someone right now, I'm totally okay with being alone and, and thinking about what you do have and things like that and just taking it easy on yourself. You have a little bit of unnecessary pressure you're adding to, to this situation that needs to happen and just let it play out. And in the meantime with him setting some healthy boundaries and communicating your feelings at the risk of being disappointed to see how he handles it and see if like he is willing to take things slow and you can say, listen, like sometimes when you say things like wife, that's a little heavy for me right now. It's flattering but I'm just, I'm not there yet, you know, and I see a lot of good potential with us, but I just, I need to really slow it down, you know, because I'm having, I'm having a hard time juggling feeling the pain of this relationship and healing while like figuring out whether we're a match or not.
- [100:58]
Rosie
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And thank you for like making me not feel like a mess. I feel like I needed to hear that.
- [101:05]
Nick
Yeah, you're definitely not a mess. You're. You're just a normal 24 year old figuring it out, you know, and you've taken some risks and that's okay. And you, you know, definitely. And if you're willing to learn, you're going to learn a lot, you know that, you know, adversity is a great thing if, if channeled correctly. And if you want to compare yourself to your friends, they can. Don't forget to give yourself some credit and acknowledge what you have that maybe they don't have. Not to, not to compare and compete but just to. You guys are on different paths and that's okay.
- [101:38]
Rosie
Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much.
- [101:43]
Nick
If I'm you, I would take him up on spending some time with him over Valentine's Day weekend while setting some upfront expectations and healthy boundaries for yourself and communicating to him what you need from him. And it sounds like the thing you need most from him is no pressure. Yeah, you know. Yeah, definitely a Long time ago, I. One of the relationships I spoke to you about, you know, I met this girl. We had this phone relationship. Eventually, after several months, I went out and visited her. And leading up to that visit, you know. You know, there was some sexual chemistry and us kind of talking about what would happen when we met and things like that, and. And I sensed that she was feeling a little. I was going to go visit her. Right, Right. And it kind of felt like we had talked so much about what it would be like when we met up there. There. I felt like she felt like there was this maybe expectation of us hooking up. So before I reached out, before I came out, I sent her this text. I was like, yo, listen, I'm really excited to see you. I know that we're going to have a good time, and that's all that really matters to me. And I. I have no expectations about this weekend other than just, like, you showing me around and us having a good time. And I know we've talked a lot and joked a lot about, like, the physical side, but, like, I just want you to know I have absolutely no expectations. And please, you know, like, I just wanted to ease her mind on that. And she replied back, like, with a. A lot of appreciation for that. And then I flew out there and we hooked up within the first five minutes. But a lot of it. Exactly what happened, you know, but, like, part of it is just taking the pressure off. Right. You know, and even then, it was still a little awkward, so just, you know, because it was like, again, you still have that. That pressure, but you. You just needed to communicate to him what you need from him. And. And what you need is so valid, and you should never feel like it's not okay because disappointing him is inevitable. What really matters is how he handles that disappointment appointment and what you have. Go ahead.
- [104:01]
Rosie
The first time around, he did say something very similar to what you just said about, like, taking the pressure off. Like, the first time we met, he made me feel really safe and, like, that's that. We're gonna have a great time regardless.
- [104:11]
Nick
Yeah.
- [104:11]
Rosie
So that's good to hear. I think this time he's just like, oh, this is finally my shot. Like, she's finally single. Like, I'm finally moving. Like, it just adds so much more to it. But you're right. I need to, like, communicate.
- [104:23]
Nick
You just need to kind of speak up and let him know, and he sounds like he will handle it just fine. And I think if you do pursue a relationship with this guy. When I was brought up earlier. That little coaching is, like, maybe he needs permission to just speak up about what he wants from you. He's so careful about what he says that, like, without saying, hey, I want you to be a little toxic. And I don't. I want you to be an asshole to me and things like that. It's just more like sometimes I just. You can say, like, sometimes when you say things, you're really considerate of my feelings, but I don't really know how you, you know, other than, like, you want to marry me someday. I, you know, I don't really know. You know, I just want to know, like, if you're mad or, you know, I just. I want to feel like I'm getting an authentic reaction from you. And sometimes I feel like you're always, you know, wanting to say the right thing to me, and I really appreciate that. A support. But I also just want to, like, exist with you, and I want to just learn about what upsets you, and I want to learn about some of your bad habits, and I just want to, like, be. Be, you know, because right now there's. It's a lot of, like, you opening up to him. He's a little older. He's got this lived experience that in some areas, maybe you don't. He's trying to be helpful, but it's also, like, it's blurring the lines between romantic partner and, like, friend who you kind of, you know, open up to. And it's just like, wait, are you my best friend therapist, or are you a guy at potentially dating? And it's like, think it's a. You know.
- [105:50]
Rosie
Yeah.
- [105:51]
Nick
And I don't think anyone's doing anything wrong, but I think it does require someone, probably you, setting these new expectations and boundaries and just dealing with how he reacts to it in a re. In a healthy way.
- [106:03]
Rosie
Yeah, I will do that. Yeah. Thank you. Cool.
- [106:07]
Nick
All right, well, keep us posted how it goes.
- [106:09]
Rosie
I will. Thanks so much, Nick. I really appreciate it.
- [106:12]
Nick
All right, have a good. Have a good one.
- [106:13]
Rose
You too.
- [106:14]
Nick
All right. Bye.
- [106:14]
Rosie
Bye, Sam.