E1099 - Bachelorette On Pause? Jessi Draper Addresses Divorce, AOA Finale w/ Chris & Arden Myrin

Summary

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The Viall Files – E1099

Bachelorette On Pause? Jessi Draper Addresses Divorce, AOA Finale w/ Chris & Arden Myrin

Date: March 26, 2026
Host: Nick Viall with Natalie Joy and The Household
Guests: Arden Myrin, Chris (Age of Attraction)

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode, Nick Viall and his co-hosts deliver a packed agenda: updates and breakdowns on the possible postponement of the Bachelorette, an in-depth discussion on Jessi Draper's divorce and the aftermath, a raucous finale recap of Netflix's Age of Attraction with cast member Chris and the ever-hilarious Arden Myrin, plus the regular banter on reality TV, relationships, and pop culture.

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Main Topics

1. Baby Names & Family Banter

[03:11–06:13]

• Nick and Natalie debate (and joke about) baby names, referencing quirky family history:
  • “There is a Pink Bailey… married to Barcher Benton.” (B, 04:31)
  • Laughter about southern names, and familial traditions.
• They reflect on how certain names become distinctive or carry baggage (“The fear is we’ll always think of the actress.” — A, 03:38).

2. Bachelorette Season on Pause: Fallout Explained

[06:13–32:00]

• Discussion on the uncertain future of the upcoming Bachelorette season after scandalous video leaks involving cast member Taylor Frankie Paul:
  • “Obviously we’re still in the fallout of the Bachelorette potentially put on pause… Is there a chance we might still see this season?” (A, 06:13)
• What went wrong in the show’s vetting process, debate on Hulu/ABC’s responsibility, and varying network standards:
  • “Most former producers I know close to the situation feel like the quote I heard the most was: ‘They’ll find a way.’” (A, 19:00)
  • “If you were gonna air it, air it on ABC, air it how you were gonna air it.”—B, 19:20)
• Critique of reality TV boundaries: authenticity versus exploitation, the morality of airing controversial footage, and the ways editing shapes narrative especially post-scandal.
• Significant portion around whether streaming (Hulu) or TV (ABC) is the right home and rumors about possible replacements, notably Maura Higgins.

Notable Quotes

• “It’s a show that has leaned into the ‘authenticity’—and then again that begs the question: Did they protect their cast?” (A, 20:07)
• “Disney…famously loves to make money—is going to eventually make the decision to release this because of how, like, everyone’s going to watch this?” (D, 21:51)

Editorial Insights

• Worries about the impact of editing the show post-incident, and whether Taylor will get a “villain” edit in light of new context.
• The complicated position of production in reality TV: “They can change the edit up to this point…” (A, 26:32)
• Analysis of the timing of the leaked video, the different standards between Mormon Wives and The Bachelorette fandoms, and the gendered narrative around abuse.

3. Jessi Draper Divorce, Toxic Relationships, & ‘Dad Talk’ Review

[36:00–44:52]

• Recap of Jessi Draper’s appearance on Call Her Daddy after news of her divorce from Jordan:
  • Jessi’s candid description of emotional manipulation: “He was blackmailing her, saying that he was going to post something on TikTok…pulled out a phone to record her and like, ‘Are you gonna do what Taylor did?’” (E, 36:23)
• Parallels drawn between Dakota (Taylor’s ex) and Jordan (Jessi’s ex), with both being accused of similar manipulations, controlling behaviors, and attempting to outmaneuver their exes.
• Debate on the “dark side” of ‘Dad Talk’—the performative victimhood and social media narratives versus lived reality, especially concerning custody and public image.

Notable Quotes

• “I judge other men by how they treat their partners…there’s a clear track record.” (A, 41:30)
• “It’s giving that the men of Dad Talk are…talking. And it’s not a coincidence this is all happening at the same time.” (A, 41:05)

4. Age of Attraction Finale Recap with Arden Myrin

[48:35–90:45]
(Highlights with Timestamps & Quotes)

- General Discussion

• Arden praises the experiment and the show’s high success rate, noting “You got four together, 80% success rate! For that alone, you should get a five season pickup.” (F, 49:49)
• Everyone discusses the reality of relationships with age gaps—what’s realistic vs. what reality TV sells.

- Couple Deep Dives

• Vanessa & Logan:
  • “When she was nervously introducing her to friends and wouldn’t let him talk…that was tough to watch.” (F, 51:52)
  • Critique the lack of awareness during awkward moments: “You don’t have the awareness to stop.” (B, 52:44)
• Leah & Chris:
  • Conversation about quality time, moving in together, and personal boundaries; Leah’s edit versus reality; criticism of disappearing acts.
  • “If you make a person feel like taking a shower is an act of war, you gotta be able to…go meditate” (F, 64:16)
• Andrew & Libby:
  • Found to be adorable, with genuine moments of chemistry and confidence; their dynamic praised as “real and fun” (F, 71:10)
• Pfeiffer & Derek:
  • Concerns over Pfeiffer’s youth and readiness for major life changes; support for building a community as crucial (F, 83:12)
• John & Teresa:
  • Mixed feelings about the couple’s dynamic and readiness for stepfamily life, but generally rooting for their success (F, 85:49)

- Age Gap Relationships

• Arden shares her own experience with an 18-year age gap: “Once you’re out in life the numbers get crazy both directions.” (F, 76:19)
• “What I like about watching your show…it’s a reality of…sometimes society, I hope more women can date younger men.” (F, 80:37)

5. Extended Interview: Chris from Age of Attraction

[94:13–119:45]

• Chris explains his motivation for joining, the challenges of being with someone older, and how the show forced him to confront his own maturity and relationship desires.
• Insight on celibacy, the pressure of filming, and the sped-up timeline (“sped-run relationship”).
• Honest assessment: Age difference does matter for him, especially with long-term goals and life timelines.

Notable Quotes

• “I wanted to test, well, how far is that age gap? How much of a gap matters or not.” (G, 95:27)
• “In a true relationship where you’re in love…you kind of want to spend every moment with them. That’s, there’s no question…” (G, 107:42)
• “Do I want just the idea of love, or do I want love?” (G, 118:45)

6. Reality Recaps: Summer House & Beverly Hills Housewives

[120:21–154:44]

Summer House

• Breakdown of Kyle’s downward spiral—work stress, displaced anger, and toxic marriage dynamics.
• Debate on whether Amanda is enabling, enduring, or trapped; supportive friendships and the ongoing “DJ as therapy” plot line.
• “I don’t get calling your wife a — when you’re drunk.” (A, 126:01)
• Empathy for Amanda’s situation, question of team dynamics, and speculation on chemistry with Ben.

Beverly Hills

• Amanda’s role as the “outsider”: discussion on authenticity, dealing with group hostility, and wearing a “money queen” persona.
• “Amanda seems to me like the kind of person that really has. She manifests. She had to reinvent herself.” (D, 148:28)
• The group debates who’s genuinely open versus who’s strategic or performative, and the impact of personal wealth on social acceptance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Disney…famously loves to make money—is going to eventually make the decision to release this because of how, like, everyone’s going to watch this?” — D (21:51)
• “I just think the men being involved in Secret Life is more noise.” — E (38:03)
• “You want to feel the pounce. So when in doubt, pounce it out.” — F to B, discussing relationship expectations (56:46)
• “Did you just say my name?” — B (146:08) on confrontation etiquette on Beverly Hills
• [On aging and relationships] “I have dated people that are younger and older. Once you’re sort of out in life…the numbers get crazy both directions.” — F (76:19)
• “Do I want just the idea of love, or do I want love?” — Chris (G, 118:45)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:11–06:13 — Family banter & baby names
• 06:13–32:00 — Bachelorette production scandal, network fallout
• 36:00–44:52 — Jessi Draper divorce details, discussing toxic exes
• 48:35–90:45 — Age of Attraction recap with Arden Myrin (deep-dive on couples at 49:21, 51:52, 63:00, 71:02, 81:14, 85:35)
• 94:13–119:45 — Chris from AOA: post-show interview
• 120:21–154:44 — Summer House and Beverly Hills Housewives recaps

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Tone & Takeaways

• The group’s trademark mix of sharp but playful commentary, honest vulnerability, and insightful reality-TV critique creates a lively, engaging listen.
• Major focus on authenticity—both on-screen and off—for public figures and private individuals alike.
• Relationship dynamics, both romantic and platonic, are dissected in depth, offering relatable wisdom and sharp observations for listeners navigating similar issues.

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For Listeners Who Haven't Heard the Episode

This episode dives deep into the messy reality behind reality TV, from scandals and cancelation rumors on The Bachelorette to real-life relationship dissolution with Jessi Draper, plus candid, sometimes hilarious reflections on what it means to date, love, and grow up under the microscope. Add in the finale of Age of Attraction with cast reactions and introspective commentary, and you get both a dose of reality TV drama and practical relationship advice—with plenty of laughs along the way.

Definitely don’t miss the Age of Attraction reunion (teased here) for more explosive revelations.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

if there is one product that I will live, breathe, die for. It is ritual. It is ritual vitamins because I have taken just about every product that they have made and I truly feel a difference. I've taken their multivitamin before I was pregnant. I take their prenatal currently while I am pregnant and I have taken their postnatal. They just have so many great products and everything is clinically backed by science. So I know I'm covered with clean, traceable ingredients. Their prenatal has choline folate, omega 3. So that's one less thing on my. And I remember, especially with river, I had the worst morning sickness. I couldn't smell anything or taste anything without like gagging or throwing up. But with rituals, prenatals, they essence them in citrus or mint. And citrus for me has been like a complete game changer. It's so easy. They're so easy on the stomach. They're designed to dissolve in the small intestines, which is an optimal place to absorb nutrients. And they are designed to be easy on your stomach. So don't settle for less. With evidence based support, save 25 on your first month at ritual.comv I A L L. That's ritual.comv I A L l for 25 off your first month.

[A]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vowel Files. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household and my wonderful, gorgeous, pregnant wife. How you feeling, babe?

[C]

How you feeling?

[B]

I'm feeling lovely.

[D]

I am.

[B]

I. You know, we decided that we hate all of our baby names that we had picked out. And so now we're back to the drawing board.

[A]

Now I decided nope.

[B]

No, we just, you know, I think

[A]

the fear is, is that we'll always

[B]

think of the actress.

[D]

Fair enough. It is a very distinctive name tied to a specific person.

[B]

And I think we'll always have the story to tell. And that's, you know. But I did have my. My sister Emily keeps this, like, very detailed running family tree. And I think it's. She started doing it because my mom's mom had one back to like five brothers who immigrated together. Like a long family tree. Oh, shit. So she sent me my dad's side mother and father and then my mom's side mother and father. And the names good that my family

[D]

had good Southern names.

[E]

I don't know.

[A]

They're Southern.

[B]

There's definitely some Southern.

[E]

Good Southern, Southern.

[B]

They're male. But there are also some that are like, oh, this is like, who is this person?

[A]

Maybe we can work with this.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No, in 1945. I don't know who this person would be to me, but there is a Pink Bailey.

[D]

Pink Bailey.

[B]

Pink Bailey. Okay, Ms. Pink Bailey. And she was married to Barcher Benton.

[D]

Pink Bailey and Barger Benton.

[A]

Oh, I bet they're formless.

[D]

Extremely beautiful.

[B]

My mother's like great grandfather. His name Young Cornelius.

[D]

Young Cornelius.

[B]

Love eating it alive. There was a brother and a sister or no, sorry, twin sisters, which. This is interesting. TD and Tawny.

[E]

Titi and Tani.

[B]

T and Tawny.

[A]

That's so Tawny.

[D]

T A W, N Y.

[B]

What? Spell it again.

[D]

T A W. We should name our

[A]

daughters Poo Poo and Papa.

[B]

Boo Boo and Ba Ba. Titi and Tiny. Tiny. Just T I A Mei Mei and Mimi.

[D]

Tiny.

[B]

Tiny Jack was her name.

[D]

Tiny Jack.

[B]

Tiny Jack.

[D]

That's really cute.

[B]

Tiny Jack Hartley.

[D]

Tiny Jack Hartley is so cute.

[F]

That's like that's giving kissing cake party.

[A]

We're still working.

[B]

I know, but I kind of only think of Justin Hartley.

[A]

There was a. There was a. Never think of him a Raleigh in there. And we were both like Raleigh. And then, and then we kept talking

[B]

about it and Nick kept saying Riley and I was like, no, it's Raleigh.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta.

[B]

If you can't get it right then

[A]

we're immediately vetoed it. So like college is gonna suck for her. You know, it's just like. What's your name? It's Raleigh.

[D]

Riley.

[A]

Raleigh. You know.

[D]

Do you think Raleigh became a name because people with southern accents couldn't say Riley?

[A]

Probably. Probably.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Well it also is like a city in North Carolina.

[D]

Well, yeah, maybe that was part of it for sure.

[E]

That might have been.

[B]

But yeah, there was a Raleigh in there. There's some good names. A lot of Lorraine's. Lorraine, Yeah, a lot of patsies.

[A]

Well, as always we got a jam packed loaded episode for you lot to get into. Obviously we are still the fallout of the Bachelorette potentially put on paused. Maybe not canceled. We don't know. Obviously. Is there a chance we might still see this season more with the case is unfolding. So let's get into. Jesse Draper is getting divorced as that story broke when we. That story broke a couple days ago and she has recently gone on call her daddy and had a lot to say which is unfortunately not surprising from one of the things I've heard and that Jordan I got to know but certainly dark and certainly a lot to discuss. We also have Arden Marine to talk about the finale of Age of Attraction as well as we have Chris from Age of Attraction. Talking about his time on the show, why he chose to not end up with Leah. Was he there for the right reasons? Hard to say. He is with us. It is a wild and fascinating conversation.

[B]

It was kind of giving Alex from Love is Blind and just the sense of, like, he says so much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That you're like, I don't. Honestly, I have no. Like, I asked you, like, what you're doing for supper. You know, like.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Huh.

[D]

You're talking a lot. But you're not saying.

[F]

You're not saying.

[D]

If I have something to say.

[A]

It is fascinating to listen to. So there is that. But before we get into all things bachelorette headlines and secret lives of Mormon wives, we do have a very exciting announcement which we announced last night. The Vile Files will be hosting the Age of Attraction reunion. It will be coming out Wednesday night. For you audio lists listeners, it will be same time, same place for the video, which honestly is a reunion. You are definitely going to want to watch this Reunion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot of facial expression. Like, it's. It's a. It was meant for your eyes.

[D]

Yeah, we, we.

[A]

And your ears.

[D]

We put. We put a lot of effort in.

[A]

If you can't. If you can't wait, obviously you can listen to. We support that. But then go back. Watch it with your own eyes. Is an extended cut, exclusive details.

[D]

We might have shot. Not even necessarily just in this room.

[A]

And we will be other rooms airing it live in a Way on YouTube at 7pm Eastern, 4pm Pacific on Wednesday. And apparently I might be like, what, in the chat? Something like that.

[E]

Maybe.

[A]

Maybe. We will reveal more information as it comes out. But we are very excited to bring you the reunion. We do have the trailer of the reunion for your viewing pleasure.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

Welcome to the Age of Attraction season one reunion. How many couples are still together? Raise your hands. Looks like Pfeiffer's not here. Does anyone know where she is?

[G]

I don't really feel comfortable, like, airing this out.

[F]

All right, well, that's why we're here.

[B]

John, is there anything you would like to clear up in this moment?

[A]

What was it about, John? Speak your truth. You took that from me.

[G]

I mean, we have gone through a lot of shit.

[B]

I don't want to cry.

[E]

If you think he was there to find love, go ahead and raise your hands. Ooh.

[A]

You guys are, in fact, engaged.

[G]

I don't deserve to date someone who texts me.

[A]

I feel disgusting with you.

[G]

You know, it's not easy.

[B]

Libby, how'd you feel? God, I didn't expect to get Emotional.

[E]

I'm hoping that people can see this and feel like this is okay.

[A]

Do you feel like you've both been able to really show up and be a team in those difficult moments?

[E]

In my mind, you were literally like my husband. Like there is nothing else.

[A]

I cried so hard. An area that I've been weak.

[G]

She's able to help me get through.

[A]

Has anyone had an issue with your age difference?

[G]

I almost didn't come out this week to la.

[D]

You're like, gaslighting a little bit.

[A]

I'm not gaslighting anyone, Theresa. Ooh.

[B]

And it was really, really sad watching that back.

[F]

It was.

[G]

Guys, I'm not.

[B]

I'm just.

[A]

I'm just. Your words, man. I'm just.

[G]

You hear what I'm saying, and I'll speak for you.

[F]

I never said that.

[G]

Four days in, I wanted to go home, tell them how it is now.

[A]

Why you laughing, Derek?

[B]

That wasn't it at all.

[E]

Well, shit.

[G]

Like, that's something that I probably needed to know.

[B]

You don't want to say anything?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

You honestly didn't like Leah?

[G]

I'm going to defend my woman or

[A]

any woman in my life, period.

[G]

Period.

[B]

Have you met his daughters?

[E]

I have not.

[B]

Why?

[F]

Yeah, why not?

[B]

And he was yelling from afar at y' all to start.

[G]

No.

[A]

Absolutely not.

[F]

How.

[A]

And I'd love to hear. Yeah, so.

[B]

And you want to air all of our dirty laundry?

[E]

Let's do it.

[A]

Is there a chance you guys could get back together?

[E]

Whoa. It looks so good, you guys.

[A]

And as they say. Period.

[B]

As they say, you know, shout out.

[D]

Shout out to Kyle and Justin and Trayvon.

[A]

Explosive episode. We will get into why. I mean, Pfeiffer is on Tick tock. We. We did. We did locate her.

[E]

You did.

[D]

She'd be posted.

[A]

She's. She's posted. I like the stuff she's posted, but lots to get into, lots to unpack, really. We. We were as fast. You know, even as host of the show, fascinated about and wanting to get an update on kind of where are they now? And obviously we pack. We unpack a lot of who's together, who's not, why people are still together and why they're still not. The finale is out now. Well, in case you haven't watched it before, we get into all of our Bachelorette and Mormon Wives headlines. Don't forget that Vow Files plus is ad free and available now with some amazing content. We certainly dive into and unpack the drama that is going on in the reality TV space and all your favorite shows. Focused a lot on all the Bachelorette drama and Secret Lives drama, as well as Age of Attraction and also your pop act show where you get in to talk about more on why Chapel Roan hates children amongst a bunch of other things. And get your favorite updates from your favorite Ask Nick callers with your update specials, all available on Vile Files. Plus just go to vile files.com to sign up. And also don't forget, Val Files is going live on May 4th for another Netflix As a joke festival, we have the new cast of Temptation island, which is coming up. Not in. Not too long. So if you are looking to get messy, wild and fun and watch people and get to know some people who

[D]

are gonna fight on a beach who

[A]

want to challenge their relationship by swapping, that will be a fun night out. So bring your partner, bring your friends, bring yourself. Tickets are available on volt.com yeah. Tickets are available at the Ticketmaster link in our bio.

[C]

Can I ask Natalie a quick question? And the question is, how do you do it? And the reason I'm asking this is because as someone who. I sound congested, and I am congested. I found out that, like, when you're pregnant, you can't take just any medicine.

[A]

Nothing.

[C]

Hear me out. And, like, you barely can take anything is what I was told by my mother because I'm over here. Like, Dayquil, Nyquil. Pop it all with a little bit of an Advil. Like, I don't want to feel it.

[A]

Like, what's your cocktail? Yeah.

[C]

Is like, you know, you, like, can't, like, when you're sick, you just. Is a Tylenol the only one you can pretty much take or.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, you really just have to, like, push through. And. And when you're pregnant, you're like, double the congestion, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you have so much fluid in your body that, like, you are.

[A]

You're inflamed.

[D]

You just have to, like, raw dog life. Like that.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

And I actually asked Nick, I have, like, something going on with, like, my skin is, like, being weird. And then also my left ear is, like, very dry. And I was like, nick, what is happening to me? What are these babies? Why is my left earlobe dry?

[D]

Maybe just one of them wants to hear you speak more.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, but it's just the one

[B]

that's on the left.

[E]

I will say anytime. I've had conversations with Natalie about pregnancy. Sometimes it does feel like we're having a conversation about the substance. I'm like, wait, what happens?

[B]

Yeah. Every week, I am scared for the day. That I get the anal spasms that I got with River.

[E]

That blood ended me.

[B]

And I was home alone when that happened. And I was here on a day to circle back.

[C]

Like, I get why you can't take just any medicine. Like, I totally get that. But, like, that just makes me have so much more respect for people that are pregnant, because you really just have to, like, feel through it and you're pregnant.

[D]

It's like, imagine being sick and you can't take meds, and then you're also pregnant.

[B]

Literally.

[D]

I'm so sorry.

[A]

We. We had.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yesterday.

[E]

They.

[A]

They. They look different. Yeah. You can tell.

[B]

Well, we officially found out that they're fraternal. For the longest time, we thought they were identical. And then finally we did this blood test. Turns out they are fraternal. And now we're like. They actually have completely different noses. Like, they are. One looks just like river, and then one we're assuming could possibly look like me. I don't know. Nick's like, that. Look at the schnauzer on that one. I'm like, well, that one's supposed to be mine, so. And he's like, well, Baby B is my baby.

[E]

He's gonna be like that. I think that one looks like my mom. Yeah.

[B]

So it's been. It's been very fun. Did y' all see the Justin Timberlake DUI video?

[E]

Yes. Sorry.

[C]

It was exactly what we saw was coming.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I don't.

[A]

I feel like. Is there. No.

[B]

It was just as embarrassing as I thought it would be. And I understand why he was, like, trying to keep that from the public.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

He was kind of answering the right question. Like, when it's like, what do you do? He was answering the interview question, I'm

[B]

on a world tour.

[C]

You know, it's hard to explain.

[B]

Say you're a singer.

[E]

Huh?

[A]

They know who is the best part. Like, not tour. I mean, I'm a world tour. No.

[H]

This is gonna.

[E]

This is gonna ruin.

[A]

Why are you in New Hampshire?

[D]

He did.

[C]

He was being humble. He started off with, like, you know, that's a hard question. When you ask me what do I do or what I was doing.

[E]

That's a hard question because he was

[C]

trying to be humble. He's like, I'm a normal person.

[D]

And he was.

[E]

So then don't be surprised when you get treated like a normal person and have to stay overnight.

[A]

Just sit here. It's more. It's hard to ask. Answer a question.

[B]

But also, it's because he was by the cops. When you're about to get arrested. You're like, this is my whole resume. Like, this is everything I've been doing Spotify.

[D]

Did you guys see the woman that was with him in the video? There's a couple different videos.

[E]

Actually saw him being pulled over in the truck.

[D]

And there's a woman with him. Like, his, like, rapper.

[E]

He was following someone.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And she was like. She gets out of the car and she's like, do you know who this is? Oh, she's like, that is Justin Timberlake. He's like, I will say crazy.

[E]

In the history of, like, body cam celebrity videos, I honestly do think that that's 10 times more embarrassing is like, yeah. When they have pulled the. Do you know who I am? And the cops. Like, I genuinely do not give a fuck.

[B]

When he's walking the straight line and he's like, you know, these are really hard tests.

[C]

Yeah. By the way, that. It's just. This is just all proof that, like, he wasn't in the right state.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I have a question for you guys. Do you think if this video would have gotten released when he got his dui, people would have maybe had a little bit more empathy for him? Because he was giving. Like, I'm doing my best here. And he kind of seems like a person versus just the empty quote of this is going to ruin the tour and mugshot.

[F]

You know what I mean?

[B]

We didn't have much to work off of. And those were the only two things that maybe if we saw him being like, you know, these are really hard.

[D]

It would be like they would baby girl him on the Internet.

[A]

Did it in fact ruin the tour?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, they canceled the whole thing.

[C]

Did they Google? Wasn't he on tour? And then they made him wear a longer shirt.

[A]

Was it put on pause or was it.

[E]

It probably was put on pause. And he only stayed overnight and.

[A]

And, like, DUI in the world of Rockstar World. I don't know.

[E]

I think dui, you have the, like, overnight in jail and a bunch of fines. But I don't think you're like, it

[A]

doesn't stop you from not community supporting. I'm pretty sure he kept singing.

[E]

Yeah. I think I remember the videos from said tour.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Unfortunately, he couldn't drive to tour.

[A]

I think.

[D]

I think he was canceling. I think he canceled some dates.

[G]

Yeah.

[C]

I was gonna say. I remember. I remember videos of, like. Remember the whole fiasco where they had to give him a longer shirt because, like, the harness was.

[F]

Yup.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

So I remember that video. Wish I didn't.

[A]

Well, speaking of canceled or put on pause. A lot of discourse going on now, trying to figure out if we are actually going to have a chance to see Taylor. Frankie Paul's season of the Bachelorette. A lot of speculation, a lot of rumors. I don't know much more than y' all know out there. I, I, I do know that I've talked to a lot of people who know more about this stuff more than me and know people in positions of power. And a lot of people I've talked to have suspected or guessed. You know, it's just a guess on their part. But most of the former producers and such that I know close to the situation feel like the quote I heard the most was, they'll find a way.

[B]

Yeah, they'll find a way to air it.

[E]

Yeah, that's what I heard, too. I heard that, like, Hulu was gonna air it just by itself for a minute there. I mean, they're losing so much money.

[F]

Sure.

[B]

And I know we all want to see it, but at this point, it feels extra icky. Oh.

[E]

Like, I don't want to watch it, but I also understand why so many people do.

[B]

But if you were gonna air it, air it on abc, air it how you were gonna air it. I mean, like, listen, it's this whole thing.

[A]

The reality is, though, is ABC is a network television show that, like, you know, kind of the old ways of television, the fcc, and it's just a different, there's a different expectation, there's a different audience. We now know with streamers like you go on Netflix and any show, like, it's, you can say fuck, you know, like, you can, you can't say that on network television. Hulu's the same way. And it's just like, again, like, we talked a lot about if you want a breakdown of the whole situation. Tuesday's episode, we had Emily D. Baker, former deputy district attorney for LA county, along with Emily Longeretta from Variety, to really break down this whole situation. If you're asking, like, how did we get to this point? Why? Why did we ever get here? We answer a lot of those questions on Tuesday's episode of Reality Recap. But as we discussed, I mean, again, like, you know, there's a lot of, we have a lot of questions about, like, how did this even get greenlit, Secret lives. But it did okay. And they chose to make this show at, like, reality tv, you know, like, where you have a bachelor show, reality tv. And it's like, yeah, it's reality tv. It's centered around this kind of very Fat, you know, fictional fantasy world that's kind of not believable. And, you know, it's very. It's very staged. More secret lives. I mean, they're. You know, Jesse, which we'll get into, recently, went on Call Her Daddy and talked about, like, if they pick up cameras and they continued and they get another season, she will have to talk about her very messy divorce. You know, like, this is a show that, like, they have leaned into the quote, unquote authenticity, and then again, that begs the question of, like, how much they lean into it. You know, did they protect their cast? You know, was there any. Is there anything off limits when it comes to what they're willing to film or air? Because up until this point, it really doesn't seem like there has been anything off limits. You know, as we discussed, it was to us as. As Bachelor fans, it's crazy that they filmed Dakota walking into Taylor's house to spend the night, the night before she was gonna become the Bachelorette. But, like, that's what happened. And, like, they filmed it and then they aired it. And if the executives at Hulu just kind of double down and say, hey, this is our show. We got. We won an Emmy for it, then. Then I feel like they'll be able to kind of justify, as dark as it is, as much criticism as they've gotten. Like, as Emily Longaretta mentioned, people are gonna watch.

[D]

I think that's my question for you guys, is do you. Do you think that Disney, as a company that famously loves to make money, is going to eventually make the decision to release this because of how, like, everyone's going to watch this? To be honest, if you look at the narratives online, like, everyone is, like, released this. You've created so much intrigue, regardless of the ethics of the situation. There's been so much intrigue about this season that's been released. So it's like, Disney's gonna make, like, the amount of views that this would get for them from a business perspective. And if they already were, like, not really caring about or being selectively, like, unaware of things that were going on, wouldn't they just release it?

[A]

My guess, it's gonna. It's gonna be centered around the reality that, like, when we talked on Tuesday, like, the. The question is, how could they have casted her as a Bachelorette? That's not the question. It's how did they greenlight this show that it was centered around this domestic dispute? And you can, like, question that, but the reality is they did, and we all watched it. And we all became fans of these people. And this video, as horrific as it is, is the video from 2023 in a situation that Taylor has spoken about, Taylor has apologized about, Dakota has spoken about it. So more and more people are having that conversation about, like, you know, we knew this already. Now more and more information is coming out. Again, we still don't know what happened a few few weeks ago when production was shut down. So that's definitely new information. We did hear from Emily Langarata that she had talked to some executive that suggested that they didn't think it was that big of a deal and they were fully expecting to pick up cameras sooner than later and that video came out. But my guess is that converse. If there's a chance it gets aired, it will be the discourse centered around. Wait, what? What? Like we were planning. We. We casted her. Knowing this now, you know, knowing about the video, I don't know. But that. That will be the big question. And as the dust settles, will some of the vitriol and anger kind of diminished that will allow people just focus on. They want to watch the show? And. And, you know, it's.

[C]

I have a question about this too, because correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole season is not edited yet of the Bachelorette. Like, they have all the footage, but it's. They've edited like three or four episodes.

[A]

Yeah, that's usually how it works. I mean, they will definitely edit most of the episodes.

[C]

So then if they were to eventually release this, all of these editors are going to be editing and post producing this from the lens of knowing what happened with Taylor after.

[A]

There is, like, we're gonna see an

[C]

interesting version of, like, recounting the history of this season versus, like, making this all about love. You know what I mean? Like, I would be curious.

[D]

Which feels like change.

[C]

It does. It does. It totally does.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that will be a question. I mean, to your point, they have that option. They can change the edit. And as we talked about on Tuesday, like, it seems like they are already. Like, it didn't feel like they had her consideration, her mental health or her well being in mind at all as they set her up to be the Bachelorette. Now that they're being called out for that, will that also change the edit or will they just not give a fuck?

[D]

It does make you think about just your point. Justin makes. Makes you really think about how much control producers and editors have over these narratives. Specifically in the Bachelor, it's like, yeah, you're right. Focusing on love and Then if the Bachelor were to, like, deconstruct itself for a season, it's so insane.

[C]

Well, and the footage.

[D]

But it's also really interesting.

[C]

The footage is to the.

[D]

For being interesting, you know?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know how they.

[A]

It's interesting because it's already been filmed.

[B]

They edit her. Like, if they give her a villain

[C]

edit, they wouldn't, though, I don't think. Right. Like, that. It's icky either way.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know what they were planning on doing. All I know is what I saw in season four of Mormon Wives and just knowing how they. And again, but people have to. You know, those aren't the same producers. The people who make Mormon Wives, they don't give a fuck about the Bachelorette. They don't care. It's not their show. They don't. They don't make any money from it other than the fact that they are making one of their biggest stars and they are allowing her. They had to get permission, so. But they don't really care about her Bachelor storyline. So I say with confidence, there were a lot of Bachelor producers who watched season four of Mormon Wives who were just as shocked as we were to see what happened and what was aired and what was shown. So they could have been planning on giving her a good edit. But, like, what they. What we saw in season four, us knowing as fans and what old producers have told me, like, they. They ruined her season already before it started. So, like, you can get a good edit, but, like, she didn't get a good edit on Mormon Wives. And what's fascinating about it, it's. It's two different production companies with two different interests. But to Justin's point, they. They. They can change things up into this point, and they can and, you know,

[C]

play around as far as we know. Also, like, the whole crew that was editing the season doesn't have a job anymore. So I was just making the point of, like, if they were to choose to, like, put this somewhere, it would just be weird retrospectively, to Natalie's point, to even, like, touch it.

[A]

There's also reports, rumors that are being talked about, floated, that Maura Higgins was being discussed.

[B]

People are saying that Maura Higgins is going to be a live Bachelorette.

[A]

This was a rumor.

[C]

She commented on a post with eye emojis.

[E]

I mean, I'm sure she did.

[A]

I'm sure she, you know, why wouldn't she want to, like, that's a fun rumor. It's not a true rumor.

[C]

The.

[A]

The Layla and.

[E]

And Miranda.

[A]

Miranda was never a true rumor.

[C]

I kind of like that one, though.

[E]

Me too.

[A]

Maybe so. But like, again, a whole new season, even if they did a live one, shoot it live, you know, I think now, pre production, baby, now there's a live rumor. Because, like, you know, as we pointed out on Tuesday, like, they already filmed that season. You know, you. If you first, it was like, oh, they're going to cast Miranda and Layla. It's just like, well, so they're going to reshoot the whole season. That's months long. You know, like, they have to. So even if it's live, they have to recast it. They have to find new men or. What, are you just going to reuse the old man after their traumatic experience and just do another live show? Like, also, it just. It's not Love Island. It doesn't work that way. They don't have the team in place to pull something like that off.

[C]

It's.

[A]

It's not. I don't think now would be the time to revolutionize Bachelor production schedules.

[E]

Two weeks.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's just like a silly made up rumor. That being said, Maura Higgins would be a fun bachelorette.

[E]

I would love it.

[B]

She would be a fun.

[E]

She would be so good. But yeah, no, I just don't. I don't know that I think you need to leave.

[A]

I think there's the last of final Rose.

[E]

Whoa. Okay.

[D]

Felt like she was in the room.

[C]

Jesse did say on Call Her Daddy that, like, if the season does air, like, this was a very different version of Taylor that we've never seen.

[A]

Is she talking about five?

[C]

She's talking about the Bachelor. If the season of the Bachelor aired that, like, this is a version of Taylor nobody's ever seen where she was completely separate from Dakota.

[E]

Like how she was before she was with Dakota.

[C]

Yes. And it was implied that this was a good version of Taylor that we've never seen.

[E]

She also confirmed that they all knew about the tape. They just hadn't seen it yet, like, until the police and everything. This dropped recently. But yeah, she was like, we were all, like, aware because they were filming the season when the incident happened.

[A]

Yes.

[E]

And so the whole point of continuing on was that it is a reality TV show and furthering, you know, what is actually going on in their lives. So that's why they continued on and they did talk about it during season one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that's what's interesting because when we had Emily Longeretta, she had told us that she had talked to some Hulu executives who insisted that they hadn't seen the video or didn't know about the video. And the, The. No, the. The didn't know part is very hard to believe.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

And the. I. And I honestly think if that's not true, if they were not being totally forthright, and maybe there's a lot. There's a lot of executives. There's executives who could. There's executives who work for the show who weren't working for the show when the show started.

[E]

So there's could be that and plausible deniability, like.

[A]

But at this point, they would have been better off just being like, yes, we investigated it. We. As hard as it is to watch, and, and as horrifying as it is,

[B]

you know, there's no world in which

[A]

they would say that, but they're gonna have to. If they're gonna. If they're gonna air it.

[D]

They can't stand by your star or don't put it on tv.

[A]

If episode one, season one of Mormon Wives is centered around this actual domestic dispute and you chose to not. And not only move forward, but air it and, and, and show footage, police cams, literally just. You might as well just own that you did an investigation. You know, like, Taylor was arrested for that situation. The police saw the footage. Whatever you think about that situation, she was allowed to live her life and be with her children. Like, I, you know that, like, they would have had. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's. That's. That was her life, that. That she was allowed to live. And then they filmed this show, you know, and so if you might as well just. If you're gonna lead with it, what. You might as well own it.

[E]

That's kind of what I think some of my issues with it is, is that it's kind of like this, like, weird morality thing, because I'm like, they talked about it, but I don't think to the fullest extent. So it's kind.

[H]

And.

[E]

But even then, it was very transparent that it was a domestic violence abuse and that she got charged for aggravated assault. So I'm just kind of like. I don't know if it's just because of how many other people there are in the Mormon Wives cast and whatnot, that it kind of just gets, like, downplayed or, like, up front. I'm not. I can't really fully remember, but it is kind of weird because it's like we were all fully aware of what happened, but I think obviously not knowing that this tape existed and then seeing the tape after the Fact, obviously it's very easy hindsight to be like, oh my God, I can't believe that they did that. But like, again, I can believe that executives and people who make big decisions did not see this tape or that her castmates hadn't seen this tape, but they knew that it existed.

[A]

Here's another fascinating question. I mean, again, you can't ignore the timing with the fact that this tape got released three days before the Bachelorette premiere. They were, they were going to have to cancel, put on pause, whatever you want to call it, because again, a lot of people who saw that video, the like the cognitive dissonance of like, it just like, oh, this, this is what just happened. We can't possibly move forward. But what if this video came out, let's say season three of Mormon Wives, Season two or whatever way back when? I don't think it would have been a huge story. It would have been, is controversial as it was and we would have just been as equally as disgusted and horrified by what we saw in this video. I don't think it, it would have stopped Mormon Wives. I don't know if I don't know, you know, because they, I think with it being the bat shred, it was a very different decision making tree.

[D]

So you also have a lot of people who are fans of Bachelor who never really watch Mormon Wives, who have like different feelings towards what they want from their reality TV stars and different, like moral, you know, feelings regarding that. So it's like you bring in that audience, obviously there's going to be a way bigger backlash if it's just Mormon wise fans. Again, the Mormon wise fans know this and that's the reason they're watching it, to be honest. Like, or, I mean, that's a general statement.

[A]

They certainly knew about the situation.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But I, I do think, yeah, I don't think it would have been a decision like that video came out and four hours later they paused or canceled the season.

[B]

That's what you said for 11 months.

[E]

And that's why I think it's like, that's where it's like, it's the whole, the whole situation I think is complicated for me too. It's because it's like knowing the toxicity between Dakota and Taylor and the fact that he goes out of his way to ruin things. I don't think it's by surprise that all this information came out within the timing of Bachelorette. But then it also doesn't excuse what we saw in that video and the behavior between the two of them. And if People know that it's that bad. Like, these two people need to be separated. Like, I don't.

[B]

You know, that's the thing that Emily Baker said is that in these situations, like, there is a protective stay away order put in place for all of these cases.

[A]

Like, that's like a typical.

[B]

It's like, if this is going to happen once, there's a likelihood that it'll happen again. So, like, here's a stay away from each other order. Like, if you have to drop off kids, there's like this, you know, they put in whatever. But that was waived in their case. They didn't have that because obviously they had to film together. So it's like.

[A]

And that's what makes it so ugly because, again, the video's horrifying. We all know that. I think Taylor was equally as horrified by that situation. We had her on this couch. It was really hard to hear her tell this story, and it was hard to. I mean, it was just sad. It was just a dark conversation. But the Taylor we've gotten to know as a person, like, yeah, like, you know, sometimes when you meet people and there's like, there's a darkness with this person. You're like, you know, even when they're charming, there's like. You're like, I don't know, something's off. And then there are people you meet who, like, maybe have some demons when they're in bad situations. It's. There's things go off the rail. But, like, when you meet them, there's a goodness in them. There's a, you know, there's a good person. You see them, like, bring joy to people's lives. And that was the experience we had with Taylor, Frankie, Paul and I. You know, it's just, it's. And that's when you hear Jesse talk about Taylor and what we might see with the season of the Bachelorette, it's just. And that's what makes it so sad is because in our experience, we met a person who has a really, at her core, a good heart. This sounds like this was a person who's overcome adversity after adversity.

[B]

Well, we learned about her biological father

[A]

in this season, you know, and so. And then you have this. This. This toxic relationship that got really dark and. And really scary. And instead of separating them, they were. Were encouraged at best into situations that only created volatility and danger for everyone involved. And that's what makes it so up.

[H]

Yeah.

[E]

And to your point, Jesse, during the interview, was talking about in the opening, was talking about Taylor and how she has a heart of gold and. And like, because there's a lot of rumors going around that, like, these women don't want to film with her anymore or like her abandoning her. And that's just very much not the case. She talks to her every day and that she was saying that she was just like, I'm just sad that, like, this is what like, Taylor's being reduced to, essentially.

[A]

I really hope that she gets whatever help she needs. And I hope right now, I think I. My hope for her is that her inner circle, whoever they are, have her best interest in mind and she's getting the love and support that she really needs. But.

[E]

And I also don't think it's a coincidence that, like, you know, birds of a feather. So I'm like, even hearing the stuff about Jordan that's coming out on Jesse's behalf, stuff I'm just, you know, it's not surprising that Dakota and Jordan are the best of friends, very similar in tactics. And Jesse had shared a story about right before she was maybe the day before she left him officially or like, said she wanted a divorce, that he was blackmailing her, saying that he was going to post something on Tick Tock. So she was chasing him around to try to get his phone from him and that he pulled out a phone to record her and like, saying, like, are you gonna do what Taylor did? And pretty much, am I gonna have

[C]

to call the police?

[E]

Am I gonna have to call the police antagonizing her? Where I'm just like, okay. So then when you see these videos and whatnot, it's.

[B]

Yeah, that's what happened before the video started.

[E]

A lot of the times when you are in toxic and abusive relationships, things can be recorded out of context and be used against people to make them look a type of way. And that's what I'm saying. And I'm not excusing Taylor's behavior by any means, but I'm just saying that I do know that a lot of, you know, interpersonal, violent relationships like that, that people know what they're doing in order to portray somebody in a different type of way. So it's, it's. That's why I said, I think it's just such a very delicate situation. And I think it's kind of. It's very gross that to me that anybody would know that what she's been through and then think that it's a wise decision to continue filming with said partner. Dakota was not necessary for Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Nobody appreciates dad Talk's presence in. In Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. So, you know, and then again, you have these, like, conversations with, like, Zack and Whitney and all of this stuff where I'm just like, I don't know. I just think the men being involved in Secret Life is more nice.

[A]

But also, yeah, keep in mind, like, Dakota got to go on Vanderpump Villa and be a character there and probably got paid for it and, you know,

[E]

like, showing up on that trip to support the Dancing with the Stars.

[A]

And he always knew that video. He. And we. We know if without. There's. There's no gray area on. He knew what was in that video. He knew that video existed.

[E]

Even the idea for it going back to Jordan, that Jordan would be blackmailing Jesse about any going on and. And with Marciano. But yet you're going to put yourself in Vanderpump Villa to be around somebody that you think was having an affair. Your wife was having a fair with.

[A]

As far as the accusation that Jordan was that Jesse had to get a new phone number and Jordan. And Jesse was fearful that Jordan was like, had access to her information. I know is true because, like, I. Before the announcement of their divorce, I got a text from Jesse being like, this is my new number. I'm moving forward with a divorce. And like, she had when we interviewed Jordan and Jesse. I'll never forget when we got done that. Her. Like, I went in the back room and her mom was, like, just bawling and crying and, like, thanking us for the opportunity to let Jesse tell her story. But, like, she. She desperately wanted Jesse to get out of this relationship. And it was just like, really. It was really sad to hear her mom just, you know, talk about that. And it's. It's. Again, for anyone going through these very messy things when kids are involved, you know, like, how many kids did Jordan and Jesse have together? Other, you know, like, that's just, you know, it's. It's so heartbreaking. And you just wonder why sometimes you. Well, why'd you stay so long? Or, you know, people ask questions like that. So it's like, because it's not, you know, this is a father of your kids, you know, you. This is the family you built with someone. It's not an easy decision, you know,

[E]

and also somebody that just may not be. That seems like a nice dude, you know, in public or whatever, to come to find out that this is what her living situation was like and that this man was, like, pretty much controlling her life, making her life hell, threatening to blackmail. Like, where I'm just like, okay, there's a lot of reasons. And then we saw at the end of season four, her going over her prenup and then realizing that certain things weren't signed and not knowing what that would equate to when she's worked so hard. He hasn't been working the last four or five years.

[C]

She did address the prenup in the interview or she did say that she talked to lawyers. And because she had people sign the prenup, it's okay that she didn't have witnesses and she will have to give him alimony and child support. But because she had the business before him, he can't take it.

[A]

That's why it's just gross for him to even try. It's such a.

[E]

Well, the whole thing was that she told him that she wanted a divorce and then he went while she was in LA to file to like, because he wanted to blindside her. And then claimed that she claimed that he thought it was going to be private. And then she was like, you gave them a statement. Like, he literally attached a statement to.

[C]

He also tried to slide a podcast clause into the divorce so that she wouldn't be able to go on podcasts and talk about him. Which is. Says a lot.

[E]

What's inside a lot that you know that she knows things about you. And like, I just don't know why you wouldn't be like, amicable about it. Especially he gets under my.

[A]

Also giving. Like, it's. It's giving that the men of dad talk are in, like, are talking. And it's not a coincidence. Is all happening at the same time. And it's not a coincidence that Jordan was making those alleged threats to Jesse. And it's like people really do need to connect. Connect.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The dots here.

[C]

She did make a point though, that. To say that it wasn't all of dad talk. Like, she was like, Jace is fine. Macy's husband is fine.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, I. I think it's clear that, like, I mean, it's really just. It seems to be Dakota and Jordan mostly. I know. And a lot of people have Zach or, you know, these other guys are messy. But like, we're. To me, like, you know, forgetting about the drama you see on reality tv. Like, I. I judge other men by how they treat them, their partners. You know, how they treat their women partners. And like it. There's a clear track record between Jordan and Dakota.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

About how they do that. I mean, it's one thing to not like Zach. But like, it seems like Zach has really been there for Jen and a good partner to Jen for all his faults. Like, and so, I mean, I did. I find it disturbing. This morning I saw him post something with Jordan I thought was really tasteless, like, leaning into the reality TV villain edit. Like, dude, you're not a. You're not a reality TV villain. You're a human villain. You are a bad person who's like,

[E]

you're someone who's about to try to go after the mother of your children because you care more about public perception than you do about maintaining a healthy relationship with the mother of your children for your children's sake.

[A]

I don't even think it's about. It's not even that, but just his treatment in the relationship that we now know of. How he belittled her, how he.

[E]

Even the creation of dad Talk says so much because it's just like, you couldn't let her have her own thing. And you thought that this was something that just like, oh, well, well, if I do this, it's going to be equally as successful. No, like, it's just like, I just think that there's an ego beyond of this man who, like, instead of working or doing something with his time, it was like, I'm going to be envious of my wife. My wife is the breadwinner, so I'm going to do everything but be supportive. That's at least what I saw.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, he did tell her she needed to do Pilates and fit a more feminine.

[A]

I'm sure. I wonder if Jesse was reminded watching Love is Blind and being like, like, oh, yeah, my. My jerk ass husband did that to me too.

[E]

What is it?

[B]

Nonsense.

[C]

Also, the whole escort thing. Like, she said that before, before filming, before season one came out, that allegedly Jordan had participated communication with an escort business. And she found this out because when season one aired, this business reached out to her. An employee sent her screenshots of his number. So she confirmed it was his number, obviously, and he had allegedly communicated with them while he was in Texas. On to go sales. Do sales. Like. And two weeks after she found this out was when she kissed Marciano.

[A]

Not shocked.

[E]

And she said, doesn't justify why she did it. But she's like, I'm sure that had something playing in the back of your mind.

[C]

And then maybe there's. She said, it's not confirmed, but there probably was orgies. Like, there's stuff.

[E]

And then he'll probably deny it, but

[B]

I think he already has been denying

[A]

any comments the dark side of dad talk is definitely trying to paint themselves as victims, especially with the Jordan one. You see what's happening with the Dakota and Taylor, Frankie, Paul, and it literally looks like Jordan is trying to follow that. What looks like a playbook.

[E]

I don't know why, because it's not working for Dakota. So don't like. I just. That's what I'm saying. I'm just like, it's just kind of crazy to me with like the seasons having aired and I'm just like, your entire behavior is documented and then you think that you can write a narrative again against.

[A]

Well, I would say, I mean, in this moment, things may change, turn we more information come out. But yeah, I think if you're Jordan, you are really hoping. Yeah, you're hoping for a similar outcome. If you're. It seems like that's what Jordan wants.

[E]

I know it's disgusting.

[A]

It's really gross. But we're gonna lighten the mood when we bring in Arden Marine in here to talk about the finale of Age of Attraction. And then following that conversation, we do have Chris from Age of Attraction, which is a conversation you definitely do not want to miss. But up next, art and Marine. An Age of Attraction finale.

[B]

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[F]

Lot.

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[H]

Congrats.

[F]

Number two. Season number two.

[A]

Oh, we officially have a season number two.

[F]

We have a number two. And I feel like you guys are gonna get one. I can feel it. And you're having babies.

[B]

We're having two babies.

[F]

Two, two, two. It's two, two, two everywhere.

[E]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

We will have announces, but we airing the reunion for Age of Attraction.

[F]

Wow. I'm excited to watch it on the vial files.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[F]

That's fun.

[A]

You know, wherever you get your podcast, It'll be on YouTube. It's something you're definitely going to want to watch. But if you want to listen to it, then watch it.

[F]

You know, I just started having feelings hearing about it.

[A]

It's as juicy as you hoped. But we're excited to have you talk about the finale.

[F]

I'm honored. It's real. I feel really chosen. This is thrilling.

[A]

So where do you want to start?

[F]

Okay, I want to start. Let me just pull up my cheat sheet of the name because I'm obsessed with everybody. I want to start with Teresa and John. I. Okay, here's my. I liked them. I felt like I like them. I'm glad they're together. I was. I want to start with the overall impression. You guys got four together. Yeah, like four out of five. 80% success rate for that alone. You should get a five season pickup versus every other thing.

[B]

I mean, queen has spoken.

[F]

Yeah. I feel like the success rate was so high with an engagement.

[B]

With an engagement.

[F]

Not the one I saw coming.

[B]

Me either. A wild engagement at that.

[F]

A wild. Of all the ones my friends give

[A]

me that were right about you.

[E]

She says I should have trusted dude

[F]

a wild and not. And that's not a problem for him. He's like, I'm just gonna keep going. Red flag.

[B]

He's not like, wait, no, wait.

[F]

He's like a bull charge. A bull charging the red flag.

[A]

We watched that in real time and we had no idea what was going on. And we were just like, what, dude? And then like, oh, my God. No. He proposed.

[F]

But you didn't know. But you, like, help him get a ring as hosts. That's.

[A]

We're not playing the Leo Lane.

[E]

Okay, okay.

[F]

For other people.

[B]

He went to preach.

[F]

Okay, respect.

[A]

We knew he had a ring in

[F]

hand, but you thought he might not use it.

[A]

We weren't sure how he was going to use it or if he was going to use it.

[B]

When he took off her promise ring, we were like, oh, my God. There.

[A]

He's.

[D]

He's.

[F]

So let's start with this one. Let's start with this one because.

[B]

Okay, Vanessa and Logan.

[F]

Vanessa and Logan. Look, here's what I want to say. And I'm always rooting for. These are all human beings, and I'm rooting for everybody on Earth. Like, it's hard to be a. It's. It's complicated to be a person on Earth. We all come with certain baggages. Like, we all. We all have certain quirks of how we interact.

[A]

We are imperfect.

[F]

We are perfectly imperfect. I'm imperfect, truly. It's the fact that people end up together. I'm always rooting for people. And that's why even on the podcast like, that, I. I will accept this rose. Like, I'm not a cynical person. I don't hate watch things. I truly get excited, even for proposals that I. I may not feel healthy. I'm still clapping and happy that they're getting. I'm a. I'm a sucker for it. I also wanted to say to her, and look, we've all been there where we get nervous and we start talking. Okay. As a gal, I. Sometimes I can get nervous. And it's interesting. One of the things I like about reality shows is when you see yourselves or maybe sides of yourself that you don't like as much.

[H]

Totally.

[F]

So when she was nervously introducing her to her friends and she wouldn't let him talk, that was tough to watch, though. And I felt like it was a heightened version of. It was hard to watch. Of like, she would ask him a question, and I felt like he was fully justified. And at that moment, it felt like the problem isn't the age difference. It's like, just. Even if a little. Fake it to make it calm down. Just present a little chill. Even if inside you're freaking out. Pinch your hands, take a breath. Just stop talking. Yeah, like the word. Wait. Why am I talking? Just take a fucking second. Just take a second. And we've all been there. Even, like, right now, I'm talking too much. I'm gonna stop in a second.

[H]

No, I love it.

[F]

But I felt like. I felt like. So then watching, I felt like maybe they weren't the healthiest together. And her friend's concerns. I Felt like it takes two to tango in all relationships. They just didn't feel like the right pairings.

[B]

It is valid that, like, when you meet friends for the first time and, like, you are doing that little back and forth thing that, you know is arguing and not cute, and you're, like, still doing it in front of the front. Like, you don't have the awareness to

[F]

be, like, to stop.

[B]

Let me not respond. Like, when Logan's like, are you gonna let me talk or are you gonna. Just gonna keep talking? Like, he doesn't have the awareness to be like, let me not say that right now.

[F]

Yeah.

[B]

And let her just let me wait till she's done. You know, it's like, maybe when I

[H]

did think that maybe they were compatible was when they kind of came home and they debriefed. And I was like. Couldn't be more turned off by that conversation.

[F]

I was like, basements were not flooded across Los Angeles.

[A]

Dried up the day.

[F]

There was a full La Sahara experience happening.

[H]

And then what he said was, why don't we just enjoy the moment? And came onto her.

[E]

And I said, I liked it.

[H]

I did, too. But I was like, couldn't be me.

[E]

No.

[H]

I would have said, no, thank you. I'll be sleeping on the couch. Or you can, or whatever. But that was not for. For me, but it was for them. So I was like, well, maybe they are compatible.

[F]

Can I ask you guys a question? And my friend. My best friend, Lauren Lopkiss is also obsessed with the show. And I was with her yesterday, and we were debating when we saw the apartment tower and we heard the pillow talk of somebody saying, women are an oven and men are. Who was that?

[B]

Vanessa and Logan.

[F]

That was them. I didn't think that was them. Okay, what was this?

[B]

That was them. It was them. They were struggling with the intimacy level she wanted.

[F]

Fourth of July. He was Memorial Day.

[A]

All her friends were getting.

[H]

Yeah.

[F]

Getting all up and down Vancouver. The coup was getting cooled all over Vancouver.

[B]

Yeah, she was. It was rough that she was having to explain, like, how the women's body works to her younger partner.

[D]

You know, I thought Logan was a sweet guy.

[B]

He did. He handled it well. And you know what? They aired him not lasting very long. And I'm sure that that hurt his ego.

[F]

I would have. I also thought he was sweet, and I liked his mom. I felt like. I'm just going to say as a. As a human female and again, watching. Of like, you gotta hide that need. Like, you gotta present. You gotta contain it. Now I know you're cut off from your family and friends, you gotta seem a little mysterious. There has to be a little mystery, a little chase of like, oh, I don't know, maybe like, there's no. The demanding. Like, let him come towards you a little bit. Rather than, like, you want to turn a man off, be like, why aren't you getting at it immediately right now? Like, just let them make a. Yeah,

[H]

I've definitely turned a man off like that.

[A]

There's definitely my favorite.

[B]

I want this to make a side comment, you know, it's like, yeah, why? You didn't wanna.

[F]

Oh, you didn't.

[H]

You didn't like that.

[F]

I like a guy that can get at it. I do. I like a guy that can get at it. I do.

[A]

We like it when we can get at it, too.

[F]

I know, but if I'm saying every

[A]

once in a while, I know it's tender.

[F]

I know it's tender for a fella. And by the way, tender for a fella. A woman can fake it in a guy. Like, there's like. And I understand. It's a tender for a fella thing. And like, that a guy can get in their head. The guys get tired and, like, I know it can be hard for a fella or not.

[A]

Right. My. My beautiful, sexy, gorgeous wife is pregnant with twins. Very difficult. But she's all. She's also, like, it'll be like, I'm so uncomfortable. Like, oh, there's like, constantly talking about all. Understandably so all the things going on later that day. It'll be like, why didn't she make a move?

[E]

Move.

[A]

Okay. And I'm like.

[F]

I thought I was being respectful.

[A]

I'm. What?

[B]

He's like, I thought you were in pain. I didn't know I had a free pass.

[F]

I don't know.

[A]

You want him to be supposed to pounce? You know, I got him.

[F]

I want the pound.

[B]

I don't. But I want the thought of the pound she wants.

[H]

I want to deny your pounce.

[F]

You want to feel the pounce. So when in doubt, pounce it out. So you can be like, hey, hey, I'm not. But you're off. Yeah, you want. You want the pounds to come twice?

[B]

Oh, my God, you're so obsessed with me. You just, like, can't leave me alone. But instead, he likes, walks past me in the shower and, like, doesn't look twice. And I'm like, are you serious? Like, I'm standing here naked.

[F]

No, no, I understand, I understand. No, no, I understand, I understand. Look, I also do think sometimes A fella. There's all different ways a fella can wild out. Where you're like, sir, sir, you did not just. Sir, Like. And a good guy. There's a lot of ways. Like a good guy who thinks it's just such a given that he likes his lady. There's ways that a good guy can wild out without even realiz. Like, Wait, what?

[A]

Listen, I get it.

[F]

Sir, you did not just say such and such right after this. Like.

[B]

Like, for example.

[F]

Yes.

[B]

Nick wore a pair of my pregnancy jeans that I had with River. He wore a pair of them out on Saturday, Sunday, and they were falling off of his body.

[F]

Wait, you wore pregnancy. You wore, like, Joey. Like, Joey and friends when he wore the pregnancy Turkey.

[A]

She has these vintage Levi jeans.

[B]

They're definitely like men's.

[A]

They're men's.

[F]

They don't have, like, a pregnancy pouch.

[B]

They, like, sit very low rise on me.

[A]

And I really like the wash. Sure. And I was like, I want to try these on. And then.

[B]

And then they sagged off of his body for the rest of the day. Now, this morning, I was like, oh, I recently have bought another pair of. Of some pregnancy jeans that I already had. I bought them in a different color. I was like, I'm just gonna throw those on, put them on my. Oh, my God, these fit, like, better than I thought they would.

[F]

Right.

[B]

Check it. They are his jeans.

[F]

I see.

[B]

So if you wanted to get into my brain currently, which is a very

[F]

scary place, let's hear it.

[B]

We're all nuts.

[F]

Let's hear it.

[B]

That was just, like, not what I needed this morning. You know what I'm saying? After watching my jeans fall off of him all week.

[F]

I see.

[B]

And then watching his jeans fit me

[E]

kind of snug perfectly.

[F]

Okay, I understand that.

[A]

I'm staying off sugar.

[F]

Okay. Okay. He gave it a toy.

[E]

Okay.

[F]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

He's deciding to stay off sugar while making me an extra large bowl of Cocoa Krispies every single night.

[F]

Okay, okay. First of all, she slay all day. Okay. Can I just say no.

[H]

Literally no.

[F]

She fires. She slay all day, like, ooh la la. What are you wearing? Call the press all, like, here for it. Hot, hot. Super hot.

[H]

So hot.

[F]

And women, even on our best days, can be in the feels for sure. And I can see. Yes. So, yes. So point being, look, there's a whole situation, and I just want to say, for the indoor outdoor voice of the head of our queen, who was trying to loud when she was saying she's loud. Say it. Don't say it don't say it. Just that the control factor of just hands off the wheel. Like if you ask somebody to do something, give them a chance to execute it, even if they do it wrong. And he couldn't win. Now. He was annoying, too. And then he snapped at her, going

[B]

back to Vanessa and Logan or.

[F]

Yes, it was Vanessa and Logan. It was like a full. It was like a fully watching reactor, reactor, reactor. Re. Watching these. Maybe they're not the right fit. And yet here. And then we get to the proposal where he said, give me the. The commitment ring back. And I'm like, what are you gonna. What are you gonna do with that? You're like, first of all, you didn't buy that. Like, are you gonna go get somebody else to give that to? Then where is this going? Then she was like, you're right. Everyone was right about you. You.

[A]

And then what were they right about?

[F]

Exactly.

[B]

Wait, I have questions now.

[F]

Exactly. And then she was all in. He proposed.

[B]

Well, I loved it. Now, this is for them.

[A]

Technically. He said, will you do life with me?

[F]

Okay.

[E]

Yeah.

[H]

Did he pro. I was curious.

[E]

Was that.

[D]

I think that's a prop. I think for a TV show.

[A]

We took it as a proposal.

[F]

He was on a knee.

[H]

You can't.

[F]

Will you do life with me?

[H]

Yeah.

[D]

That's all. The holidays.

[A]

That's very 2026. We don't need to get married to live together.

[H]

No labels.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Situation shift for life.

[F]

Don't judge me. Situation ship for life. Don't judge me. Don't shame me. Yes.

[A]

Like, hey, I want to be in relationship.

[B]

Relationship.

[A]

But we're doing life together.

[F]

Dude, I would get out of here,

[B]

but you're paying all of our bills.

[E]

Right.

[B]

Like, we're doing life together.

[H]

We're doing life together.

[F]

I.

[A]

Look, we went on vacation.

[F]

I did. I mean, I did enjoy that they got promoted. I was still happy for them. I'm worried about it. I'm happy for her that she got what she wanted.

[A]

Well, tune in next week to the reunion to get an update on. Where are they now?

[H]

I'm actually dying to know.

[F]

I'm so naive. I. I just assume it was happily ever after.

[A]

Well, that's what I'm so excited about, the reunion.

[F]

Because, like, have you already filmed it?

[A]

We have already filmed it because there's just a lot, you know, there's a lot to unpack. And, like, you know, you could say it's somewhat easy to leave a reality TV show in a relationship.

[F]

Okay.

[A]

You can always break up the next day.

[F]

Oh, my God. I Wish I could go through.

[A]

We filmed. We filmed this last April. May. Oh, okay.

[F]

So it's been almost a year.

[A]

Yeah, it's been almost a year. So.

[F]

Okay. Can I ask.

[A]

Lots to unpack with these couples, Mary,

[F]

what did you think of them?

[D]

I think they're cute. And I think a lot of their issues I kind of let slide past because I think they're kind of wholesome when they're together. There's something about them that just, like.

[F]

I don't know.

[D]

There's a charm between the two.

[F]

Maybe if they could calm down without cameras on them and like.

[D]

Yeah, like, they seem in love. Do they?

[F]

Yeah, I hope so.

[E]

I don't know.

[F]

Here is my fear about them more than the other couples that are. My fear about them is it felt like. And I'm gonna say this, and I hope I'm wrong. Cause I actually really am rooting for them because I'm.

[E]

I'm.

[F]

I am a fool. I felt like he picked her because he knew if there was a big enough age gap that he would get airtime. That's what it felt like. He was scrambling like musical chairs.

[H]

Interesting.

[F]

The other ones, it didn't feel that way. That one felt a little scrambled. Musical chairsy.

[D]

I would. I would maybe. I would maybe argue and push back on that.

[B]

Maybe originally.

[D]

Maybe it originally started out that.

[H]

Right.

[E]

Maybe.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

I think you all need to tune in for the reunion.

[F]

I can't wait.

[A]

What do you think of Leah and Chris?

[F]

Okay, again. And I want to say to my iconic queen, Leah, stun gun, gorgeous, cool career on her own. Would love to go have dinner with her. Had fun. I liked her in a relationship. I don't think it was the age difference. I felt like if a man wants to take a nap, let him have a nap. If a person wants to go to the gym.

[A]

What if I offered you context? We had Leah on. On Tuesday's episode, and we asked her about this question. She reminded us and. And again, like, even as hosts of the show, we're not, like, we're not watching every scene in real time. We're reminded that, like, especially at this stage of the show where they're living together, they don't have their phones, they don't have their job.

[F]

Yeah. She had a book. It doesn't matter. You go for a walk, it doesn't matter.

[A]

They're only there to have quality time.

[F]

So what? I don't care. Part of.

[A]

But she doesn't.

[F]

No, I don't. I'm so. I'm going to say it's you're setting up the dynamic. And if you're freaking out because someone's taking a shower and they say, fine, you hate me because you're taking a shower. You gotta be able to.

[A]

Even if you're thinking, I hear you.

[F]

If that's what you're thinking, you have to be able to go meditate.

[A]

Well, that's not reality.

[F]

Like. Like, go for a walk, Susie. What do you think?

[B]

Oh, whoa.

[H]

I agree. I agree. I didn't know the context of not having your phone. But I will say if somebody's telling me, hey, you're giving. You're like in my space too much. I'm gonna get out of your space.

[B]

No, I would actually never speak again.

[H]

Yeah, actually I would be like, oh, you.

[E]

You hate me.

[H]

You'll never see me again.

[F]

Me too. I hope you miss me too. No, literally, the second I feel any resistance or boundary setting, I'm so insane that I'm like, I'll give you all your boundaries. I will literally pull my drawber job. And I like, that's why I have never taken a dollar from any man. And I like, I'm like, I knew it. I'm out of here.

[H]

Exactly.

[F]

Yeah.

[H]

No, I'm the same way.

[F]

So I'm having fun with anyone again. Your basic lawyer that you're gonna end

[H]

up with, like, you'll miss me forever.

[F]

There's the last person we'll have fun with. You.

[B]

You're gonna regret saying that. Yeah, yeah. That's how.

[H]

I mean. So I'm with you. I didn't know the context about the phone because I. I do think if. So they're not working or anything.

[A]

Well, it's just like. Again, it's not just about the phone. It's like at this stage.

[F]

I know.

[B]

No, this isn't loving. All they have to do, they go back home. Okay.

[A]

All they have to do is spend time together.

[F]

I know, but if you want to go to the gym or one. I like a little alone time.

[H]

Oh, I need alone time.

[F]

I need a little regroup.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Need it. But like, this is so.

[F]

What it doesn't.

[A]

In these environments, you have such little time.

[F]

I know, but I think to regroup and gather yourself. If you're never recentering yourself to come back and be present. And you're only just like. Basically you're getting drunk and you're staying drunk. Yeah, you're getting drunk. You're day drinking. You're drinking again. But like, you don't have a time to have the hangover. Before you go to, like, the pool

[A]

party, what happens if you. You met. You meet a guy?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's early. Sparks are flying.

[F]

Hot.

[A]

It's like, everything's really great. Honeymoon phase. You're just like. You're just like. You're just. You're. You're talking about your future.

[F]

Love it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You're just like. You're. You're playing house in your mind. You're like, yes. And we're going to have such a good life together. Oh, it's so great. And then you go to the promise room and you make a promise to each other, to really. You really want to see this through? You really want to. You really want to explore this relationship.

[F]

You've never. Like, Mart. Butch. I love it.

[A]

You're two. You're two weeks into this relationship, and then all of a sudden, he's just like, this is a lot.

[F]

But it's a lot because I'm saying when you take a shower, you hate me. She's making him say this is a lot.

[A]

No, he. But that's not the. I don't think that's the real.

[F]

The real context is like, me to say that.

[A]

But it's not just about the shower. It's framed as a shower. It is him, basically.

[F]

Wasn't he saying this is a lot because of the shower?

[A]

I think he just kind of disappeared on her a lot.

[F]

Okay. He did that before. So he was pulling away before she freaked out about the shower in the gym. He kept starting. He started to pull away, and we didn't see that.

[A]

You saw the end result of a buildup.

[F]

So you watch him start to sort of disappear a little bit.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. While all the other couples were both on and off camera.

[F]

Okay. So it seemed like doing stuff, he

[B]

was kind of checked out because they could go out and get ice cream, they could go shopping.

[F]

I see.

[B]

Do whatever they want to do.

[F]

Okay.

[B]

They did not do that.

[F]

Okay. So this is good information. Okay. You know what? I'm backing up. Hell, yeah. We got her back.

[B]

We got her back.

[F]

This is where.

[D]

Leah, we're back on your side.

[F]

This is me, too. Where I can learn a big. Again. This is actually kind of pretty good. In a relationship where I can admit where I'm wrong.

[E]

Beautiful.

[F]

And I didn't have all of my facts. And I owe you an apology.

[D]

Learning, changing.

[F]

I don't know where's my lens?

[H]

But when we came in before we started rolling, we were talking. And that conversation, we both agreed.

[E]

Without the context.

[H]

We both agreed it would drive me nuts. If somebody was like, up my ass

[A]

like that, without any context, Leah doesn't look like rational.

[F]

No, you're right.

[H]

And that's how it was. Frames.

[F]

They edited her. They did her dirty in the edit.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

Okay. So. Okay, that makes me look. You know when. As a man or a woman or like, whoever you're dating, you know when a person. You can feel it when they're obsessed with you, and you can feel it when it just. Whatever. Somebody opened the window and somehow it's gone, and you don't know what happened, but you can feel it when there's a pull coming towards you or where, like, it's just not happening and it feels bad.

[A]

Well, after you leave the studio, we are going to air our interview with Chris, which I think will be very interesting for a lot of people to hear, which I think will also be a great setup going into the review.

[F]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And you're definitely. You're definitely gonna want to hear.

[F]

Oh, my God.

[A]

A lot of background from Leah's state of mind and. And things she communicated to Chr.

[B]

And then at reunion, he walked in wearing sunglasses.

[H]

No.

[D]

Yeah. I got Polaroids of him with and without sunglasses. I said, whichever one you want.

[E]

Take home.

[F]

Wow. Do you think? Who cares? Iconic move. That's a move.

[A]

Respect. By the way, before we started, one of his. One of his peers said, you should take those sunglasses off. And I looked at Jorge and I was like, shut your mouth, dude.

[F]

I'm sorry. Let him leave him. Can we talk Jorge, for a second?

[E]

Yes.

[D]

Pastor's son.

[F]

Pastor son.

[A]

Pk.

[F]

Pk. Vanel. Obsessed with her poise in the now. I shut down. I get flooded, and I. I leave my body, but I don't leave the building. So I watched, panicking in real time, how he was talking at her. Whatever happened out on the street with that man on the street. Okay, first of all, I knew he had kids. When she asked, do you have kids? And he didn't answer. In the promised room. Okay, whatever. I knew it. He's 60. That's a lot an actual boomer respect. I mean, he's hot. The way he was talking her poise and having her own back in the moment the way he was. And his threading the needle about the celibacy thing of, like, being enraged that oral intimacy is ha. Shouldn't you be ple. Like. Like the threading of the needle that he's angry that it's not nothing. It's like. Like I felt for her having her own back. Back with elegance. She didn't start crying in front of him. I would have panicked. If I had. I would have just. I would have shut down in the moment and not started. I would have gotten out of there. I would have freaked out.

[D]

You would.

[F]

They would have aired the audio of me behind the cameras with the producer.

[E]

Yeah.

[F]

Sobbing in the elevator. Sobbing. Like I needed. I would have been panicking, pull the

[H]

colton and jumped the fence.

[F]

Full Colton fence. I would have jumped a fence. I'd be like, she's. Her legs are so short. How'd she get over the. Then she did it twice. She went back in her cute pink pajamas, her poise, and having her own back. I wanted to take lessons from her in real time of how to have your own back. I thought she was very elegant.

[B]

She is very elegant.

[F]

I loved her.

[C]

She's a queen.

[B]

We do.

[F]

She's a queen. She's an iconist star.

[B]

And they.

[A]

They are also at the reunion.

[B]

They are also at the reunion.

[F]

Wow.

[H]

Yeah.

[F]

I bet he's hot. And we know she's hot, but I bet he has his charm, but he's.

[A]

He's very charming in person.

[F]

I bet he fills a room.

[B]

He does 100%.

[A]

Andrew and Libby.

[F]

Okay. Andrew and Libby. Okay. At first, I was grossed out by him, and then I found them very cute.

[A]

They are cute.

[F]

I found her adorable. I found her fun. I found their dynamic very charming. I actually felt like she sincerely wasn't just there for followers. I felt like she really could just move to Baltimore and marry him.

[B]

And they had really cute moments together that I felt like. Like, even when they first were back at the retreat and she was like, I kind of like you a little bit. And he was like, should we get married? I love that dynamic. And I think they match.

[F]

She's fun. I felt like if she could teach the other gals a little bit more of her cool. I think her bad bitch mantras were fun. I felt like she seemed like, even if it was coming from even any place of insecurity, she seemed confident and it made her hold the cards a little bit. And if she could have even some of the poise that vanilla. Like both of them. I felt like I wanted them to give to stewardess and proposed engaged gal. Like, I felt like she presented in a manner, a little bit of teasing, a little flirt rather than like, I found that she had the fun teasing. And it seemed like he liked her to have the upper hand and she was kind of funny and seemingly seemed cool.

[A]

Yeah. I think early on, they probably got the. A bad beat so to speak. Because, like, they leaned into her bubbliness.

[F]

I mean, she looks very young.

[A]

They leaned into her, like, youth. She's the youngest one on the show.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

And, and I think over the season, as it progressed, you, you see why it could work.

[F]

They were cute. I found them to be cute, but I, I kind of felt, I really felt like they loved each other and I was happy for them. I don't like when an older guy's like, she's mature for her age. And I didn't like when people told the older, older women, you look good. Like, there's nothing wrong with being 49 or like, you look, you look great, period. Not for your age or for what,

[A]

like when Logan's the Vanessa. So can we talk about that? How much you look older than me?

[F]

The optics. Oh, my God, the optics. And it's like, I actually didn't think they looked that visually different. Like, maybe in person, but I didn't find them to be that. I just thought if I saw them at a restaurant, I didn't find them that jarring.

[B]

You're not like, oh, my God, I

[F]

didn't find him that young looking. I found them to look like a couple.

[A]

It is interesting to see how these couples work out.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

Or what happens post filming in an age difference relationship. Often the person who's older comes in with more life experience.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

One reason I think Natalie and I worked out early on is because I had a lot of my baggage and heartbreak and things that like, were like, hey, you had your life experience and my life. And then Nie had her life experience. And even though she was a lot younger than me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I felt like, like she related to, like, we had very different experiences. But when I was like, I've been, I've been through a lot and I just need someone who, like, isn't cavalier about like, Yeah. A serious relationship. Because, like, yeah. Like I've, you know, when you get older and you have heartbreak.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you find someone else, there's always this, like, I don't know if this person's worth two more years of my life only for it to end and go terrible. And just that whole mental gymnastics that I think when you're watching like Leah and Chris, there's just kind of like, like how serious, like, it's easy to be. Like, hey, let's not worry about age. Let's just go have fun. Yolo.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Like when, when these couples go out into the real world.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

And in reality hits. Will they still be able to show up for when it gets hard.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, these. Will the younger people.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Still be as committed to working through it?

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, because it's a lot easier while filming to be like, you're hot. We have good chemistry. This is great. Like, what. Of course I'm attracted to you, but when you start hearing about, like, their past and. And kids are involved, you integrate with them. Like, are there. Will they continue to want to show up? Because, as you know, being in a relationship is showing up every day and choosing each other and not just when it's fun and exciting.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

And you have the chemistry.

[F]

It's.

[A]

It's like when shit hits the fan.

[F]

Well, it was interesting seeing the older women. They're right. That society is a lot harder on the women. And it was like an interesting. Yes to your point of like the shit hit the fan for both sides. Like, it's. Can Libby. Like, there's a big. Ages with Libby or Pfeiffer. Like. Like on both sides. There's that. And then also this society sort of shaming the older women. When part of me is like, go for it. Like, like, like, yeah, when. When I got divorced. I don't want to be. I'm a divorce. But like, like, it's interesting when, you know, when you're in your 20s, everybody's available and it's sort of like musical chairs and whatever. And then you get like, at a certain point where people get paired off and that a lot of people. That a lot of older guys then want young. So it's like, well, then who are you supposed to date? Date like who you like. Yeah. So. So, like, so the guys get to go date, but the women have to just be put on a shelf, like.

[H]

Yeah.

[F]

So, you know, it's an interesting thing where if you don't go looking for an age difference. But I have dated people that are younger and older. Like, where you're like, once you're sort of out in life, it's like the numbers just get crazy. Both directions.

[A]

It is.

[H]

Right.

[A]

That's the thing about this show, you know, direction. A lot of people when the show came out, it was almost like positioned as like a show that is promoted.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Age differences or. No, we're just. We're focusing on this one aspect that it is becoming more and more common. Well, it's a reality and dating. And I think for anyone out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The first time they dated someone who had some kind of age difference, you kind of were like, how did I end up? You're like, you're Caught off guard.

[F]

Well, because you also, at first you're all like in school together. You date maybe one or two grades off. Then maybe you're like the same friend. Like, so I also wasn't in my 20s. When apps exist, like, I just feel like you sort of had access only at the time and my like, to people that were your age, you knew your friends, like your circle. So I feel like now the apps of it all have really changed a whole variety.

[B]

Like, when I met Nick, I wasn't like, I'm looking for a man in his late 30s.

[F]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, like over the, you know, so the guy that I dated, a guy for a year and a half who I met in real life who was 18 years younger than me.

[D]

Wow.

[F]

And like, and it was great.

[H]

Was it so fun?

[F]

It was really fun. But it wasn't even like, he was super successful. We. I loved him. His. And I was. And again, it was. I didn't know if his family would accept me. He's Indian, his family. I loved his family. I didn't know, like, I'm not Indian. I was older, I was divorced, and his mom was so welcoming to me. I loved her. I. We still text on my birthday. Like, I, I miss her. Um, I was touched, like, at how, how I would have understood if she was like, maybe if I wasn't what she was looking for for her son. But it touched me so much that she saw like, we just had a great time together.

[H]

Were, Were you guys dating with the intention of like, longevity or were you like, I'm just open to seeing where this is going. If it's fun, it's fun. But I, I really do see a future with you.

[F]

I think it for. He was the first person I dated after I, like, like, I went on a bunch of dates and I've never really been. I'm not like a sleep around gal and like, and I am also okay being single. And I met him and I, I, he, I just on paper, he didn't. He lived on, he lived on the other coast. And on paper I was like, well, this is like, this feels stacked against us.

[H]

Yeah, this'll never happen.

[F]

But I, but I, like, I was tickled by him and I, he was smart and, and we just liked, we just had fun. He was smart and interesting and different and like. And I think at first, both of us, it's like, well, this'll be a fun few months of like. And then we really felt for each other. Like, we really loved each other. It was almost so Impractical that I was able to dive in and go, let's just give it a go. Because it feels like, let's just be until we're out and like, and it's okay. And I think it was like a really lovely. Like, it was like, I have nothing. Like, I loved the guy and, like, and I know he loved me. And it was like a really beautiful. I'm so grateful for it. And so it was almost like this summer camp version of, like, let's just see what happened. And it was, I think, more than either of us expected. And that was like, touching to see. Like, here's this person that I might not have known. His friends were great. Like, his family was great. And at a certain point, we were just at different points in our lives and it was hard to walk away. It was the right thing, I think, for both of us. But, like. Like, it was a very good relationship for me. And it did show me that in some ways I have found when I was dating some of the guys that were Met my age or seemed more, I don't know, like, he wasn't scared by the fact that I owned a house or that I had a career. Like, he had his own stuff. He was like, he was raised by a cool woman who's powerful. Like, I felt like he was open to and not like that all this stuff. Like, all of that was not an issue. But I also don't have kids, so, like, I don't know how it looks if it's like. But I did feel sometimes like going to his friends weddings, I'm like, do they think it's weird? Is it weird when we all do karaoke? Like, some songs that they are singing, it was like at their seventh. I mean, I don't know.

[A]

Here we go again. What's Arden's song gonna be like?

[F]

Or was there like that? But it's interesting seeing the double standard. Like, what I liked about watching your show is it is a reality of, like, that sometimes society. I hope more women can date younger men. At a certain point when we were alone, I didn't really think about it. Like, we just liked each other. And he was smart and ambitious and cool. We laughed our asses off. We traveled the world. He was successful. Like, it was sort of a non issue. But the reality is, is he was. That it's just like, you know, it's. I think it was more like there were certain things that we were just different on. And I don't know that it was necessarily just the age thing.

[B]

What do you what are your thoughts on Pfeiffer and Derek? Do you think they.

[F]

I think they're cute. I like him. I liked her. She really panicked when it came to having people come in and a manner reality panicked her. Really panicked.

[A]

You know, she's like, wait, what's going

[C]

to happen when we leave?

[F]

Yes. And when they were meeting people and I felt like I was happy that they gave it a go. I liked the key giving.

[A]

I think that conversation that they had about movies really I think revealed like where she was in life. And I think it kind of spoke to like she really is very much a 23 year old.

[F]

Because to me she looks really young too.

[A]

Forget about how she looks. It was just more like. I think again when you talk about like, well, I planned this for myself and I promised myself this and I had all these. And this. What you're asking me to do is very different than what I told myself. That's just something I think when we're younger we do a lot more of.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

The planning out our life. And as we get older and shit happens and our lives are our plans get destroyed. We're kind of more like how Derek was. It was like, listen, you know, I'm. This feels good right now. I'm not. But like I can't predict the future and I don't know what our plans are. But like what I'm focused on is what right's in front of me and why this is working. And to me that conversation felt like two people in very different aspects of their life.

[F]

I felt like yes, she did seem young in that conversation. And I think she was like thinking of the reality of. Of like I'm gonna go be like in like a cul de sac somewhere in Dallas doing like carpool with two kids.

[H]

Yeah, totally.

[F]

And I feel like they have a chance to. If she really wants to have a family and like be a mom now and have a ton of kids, I feel like he will. I feel like he would step up to the bat and try to love her forever and he would try to do it right. I hope for her that she would have enough friends. I feel like she's gonna shut down in Dallas. I hope that doesn't happen. But that's what I think. What do you think she. Susie?

[H]

I think she's young enough not, not to say. I mean I moved to a new city at 30 and it was intimidating, but I like thrived. I made a lot of great girlfriends.

[F]

Joy, Joy, Joy.

[H]

But I think it's really hard to. To Move.

[F]

It's hard.

[H]

It's hard. It's hard to move at any point, and it's hard to find adult friends.

[F]

It's lonely.

[H]

But I do think she's young enough where I'm like, you could get. She could get plugged in pretty easily, I think, in any major city.

[F]

Yes.

[H]

But I. I agree with the. The conversation that she showed her age, which might appear elsewhere, or maybe not. Maybe she just embraces it. But I think that if you have a vision of how you. You want your life to be, and you're 23 years old and you're like, wait, why am I suddenly moving to a new city, living in a. Like, you said the word cul de sac, and I was like, ooh, like, the thought. And I'm, like, of age to, like, live in a cul de sac, but I don't. And it would be a lot to go live with somebody and become a step parent overnight.

[F]

And I also have age to live in a cul de sac, and I don't want to go live in a cul de sac.

[B]

Yeah, same cul de sac. Guys. It's such a good, like, like, party. Like, get all the neighbors together, like, every.

[E]

It's like, such a good little.

[F]

Like, you can ride bikes in that cir.

[B]

You can, like.

[F]

But if I have friends. If I have friends, I'll live in a coliseum.

[B]

You have to make friends with your neighbors. Well, I was gonna say, if you go outside and you gotta, like, if

[F]

it's in a city that I want, I'll live in a cul de. Say happily.

[E]

Yes.

[F]

I like this twist.

[H]

I go to Pasadena a lot, and I'm like, I could live here. Like, I think it's so cute.

[F]

I like a big pig pile of people. And I wanted to go to Vancouver through that retreat. So I do like, a big. I like a gang of kids. I like bike riding. I like. Yes. So that your version of it? I liked that.

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

I don't know why. I pictured blinds drawn.

[H]

Me too.

[F]

I pictured blinds drawn. You pictured, like, clouds. I pictured friendlessness. Sitting alone, waiting for someone to come from work. Right, but you're having bike riding. You're having. You're having lemonade stands. You're having. Okay, I want your version. I want summer sprinklers. I want slip and slides.

[B]

So many summer. So many water.

[F]

Cul de sac.

[H]

Yeah, but that comes with a.

[C]

A.

[E]

A good partner.

[H]

That comes with good neighbors.

[F]

Yes.

[H]

Good community. Like you.

[E]

You.

[H]

She hasn't seen where she's moving. I don't think you know what I mean. So I understand the intimidation on board with this. Yeah, me too.

[F]

And I'm staging. I watch them well. I want them to work out. I want. I want the Natalie version of this.

[A]

You'll. Y' all have to tune in for the reunion.

[F]

I want a slip and slide.

[B]

I also want.

[F]

I own one.

[A]

I've owned a couple.

[F]

I like that. Oh, my. Wait. We didn't talk about John and freestyle.

[A]

Yeah, let's talk about John and Teresa and then we'll get to our interview with Chris.

[F]

Okay, great. John and Teresa. I'm happy for them, but I wanted her guard to stay down. I felt like she started to shut down on him. She was adorable at the retreat with him. They were cute.

[E]

Yeah.

[F]

I felt like he was good for her. He seemed locked and loaded and all in.

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

She started to seem like she was getting log jammed. I saw the eyes of like the leaving, like leaving the body, the log jam. I was happy they ended up together.

[A]

I think she overthought the kids not engaged.

[B]

Reading the kids letter really opened her, like, eyes to being like, oh, look, they do just want me happy. And they do see that. I.

[F]

She does seem happy.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[F]

They're cute. I want them to work. I liked them together. When she got shut down, I felt like she was sort of dismissive to him. Thoughts? You have things to say. But you know what happened.

[A]

You gotta watch the reunion.

[F]

I can't wait to watch the Nick this show. Can I just say, you guys, it's riveting.

[B]

I know.

[F]

I loved it. I want another season pitch to follow one couple that's the same age so that people don't just go on to go get the various like one to stay.

[A]

Those are conversations that are happening.

[F]

That's my pitch that we what that we follow. So you don't know who's gonna get listen with it.

[A]

With the first season of reality TV show, there's limited budgets. No, no. We only got eight episodes.

[F]

Can I just tell you? You killed. I. But that's. It was just a perfect season. There's no notes. But now, now, now that people know how it is that way that you can't control.

[A]

I hope the same way like love is blind really found its footing. Season two, it's so good. I hope the same for us.

[F]

I loved the retreat and Whistler. I loved it.

[A]

The amount of applicants we're being sent. We're not even in casting.

[F]

I love it. I mean, I literally couldn't stop watching it. I loved it. It's literally. I had. I had a writing rewrite to do. I haven't done it anything, because all I want to do is watch your show.

[A]

Love it.

[F]

I loved it. I loved it. It's really good. You guys did a really good job. People are loving it. Lauren brought it up independently. She was like, if you're not watching Age of Attraction yet. I was like, excuse me. That only. Am I watching. I'm going on tomorrow night. And then you called, and she was like, ah. And then she was bummed that she couldn't come today.

[A]

I will have to get her back. Did you. Did you like that scene when Leah and Teresa got into it?

[F]

Oh.

[A]

And I'm. And I'm just smiling. I can have thoughts.

[F]

Okay, let's hear it. It.

[H]

I don't like when people apply their rules to you.

[F]

I'm like, okay.

[H]

I. When I went on the Bachelor, and then people came off and were like, you know how this works? I was like, nobody handed me a rulebook. Nobody said, these are the rules you have to follow. I said, I signed up and walked on. And I was like, and I have to take this home. So when people are. I don't. I don't like when people apply their version of what you're supposed to do. Thank you to your life. Because I'm like, you have a different situation. She's trying to allow her kids to get to know him at. At the rate in which she did. And she has every right to do that. Like, I just. I did not like that for that reason, but that's coming from my personal experience.

[F]

Agree.

[A]

That's a great point. And I think. Yeah, I think there's a little bit of Leah thinking this is what we're supposed to do. And like reality tv, there's. There's guidelines. There's not rules.

[F]

I wish you could have taken back the. The head chop hand motion. But other than I don't you love that? I. Yeah, it was.

[A]

I do think Leah made a good point, though, because it's like, listen, if your kids are that important to how you're gonna feel about this relationship, then, like, before you go get really into this relationship, if they're gonna impact how you feel about it, shouldn't they know or shouldn't you know how they're gonna feel?

[H]

But I think she also said she was like, the whole point is that, like, we're not ashamed of this. I'm not ashamed. You don't know that the person next to you isn't ashamed. I think that's what's interesting about it is that she might carry shame as a woman being 27 or what is years older and that's her experience. And like, it's interesting to explore that and it's interesting that it came out whether it's shame or something else. But I'm like, I don't, I didn't.

[F]

I was like, I was not ashamed. Dating 18 years younger. I didn't care at all.

[H]

I love that.

[F]

I couldn't have cared.

[E]

I didn't care at all.

[F]

I love that I know that there are certain people when I'm with them, they calm my cells down like that. Who, when I'm just next to them in the same room. There are certain people that just make my, my cells feel good. And it, I don't, it doesn't. You know, I'm dating somebody older than me now than a man that, who just makes my cells feel good. Like, and that's just. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't know.

[A]

I'm just trying to picture someone on a dating app saying to someone else saying, you make my cells feel good.

[H]

I feel like you would have that.

[F]

Like you made myself make my cells feel good.

[H]

Looking for someone to. What is it when cells re like recreate them.

[F]

Yeah.

[H]

You regenerate. Regenerate cells. Yeah. Looking for someone to regenerate myself like

[F]

regulates my nervous system. Who I just feel like grounding grounds like so. So right now I'm dating somebody who I feel myself feel calm. Love.

[A]

Well. Up next we have Chris from Age of Attraction to get his answers on everything about the show. But ultimately why he did not end his journey with relationship with Leah obsessed. And I think it will be a great lead in to our reunion that drops next Wednesday. Wait.

[B]

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[G]

What's up guys? Good to see you.

[A]

How are you man?

[G]

I'm awesome. It's so first of all, thanks for having me. It's been some time. It's pretty surreal to be sitting here and talking about it and going back over it. Obviously feeling super blessed, a lot of emotions, nervous, excited. But I think more than anything is just realizing, you know, how what an opportunity it is to number one show something that's never been shown before.

[A]

Right.

[G]

Like in a way we all talk about does age matter? Does it not? We proved it. Like does it matter not? And I think we're showing it and I hope that does show it. But yeah, and then also to see everybody again. I'm so excited to just catch up, you know.

[A]

So what I'm curious like what made you say yes to this experience?

[G]

Okay, so what made me say yes to this experience is because I always told myself that if I'm going to come out I was want to leave everything on the table no matter what I'm doing. And when it comes to a dating show, I was always weary of doing any dating show. Not to say that I had the choice but no matter what, you know there's a stigma that comes with dating shows. And, and when I saw this I was like this could be something different. I think it will be something different. I don't want to use the word high class but that's what it seemed like to me. A high class dating show. A show where it really is about relationships and showing the best self of each other. And you know I, I've said this many times. I always say clarity comes from commitment. And it's like, how do you. You get clarity on if age matters or not without testing it? I've had relationships with women that are older and vice versa, but for the most part, serious relationships of mine have been with older women. And I kind of wanted to test, well, how far is that age gap? How much of a gap matters or not.

[B]

Do you feel like you got that answer?

[G]

Yeah, I do think I got that answer. I think that I said this on my first interview. It's this analogy that I've heard so many times. It's like, don't leave your hand under a faucet without turning the knob. And then even worse, to walk away and say, the water doesn't work. You know, so it's like, don't leave without just trying everything. And when they reached out to me for this, I was like, I believe this show is made for me. I'm 26 years old. So many times people think I'm in my mid-30s, and I generally have to carry myself, I think, a little bit older in business. And I didn't want to do that on the show. So that's why I came out dressed how I would dress if I'm going out to a bar, you know, and just, like, treating people the way that I treat people at home. And I think it was pretty clear that I gave that young vibe. I wanted to. I wanted to be honest and, like, give that vibe. I didn't want to give the business vibe, whatever. Which was interesting because I think people caught on to my age pretty quick, which was quicker than I expected. But I do think I got that answer honestly. And I think that, you know, you

[A]

had people guess your age early on in the process. What is your age range?

[G]

My age range? I think they kind of knew what was going on.

[A]

And what. What made you. Did you learn anything from that? Because. Because, you know, I think younger people tend to say things like, I'm mature for my age. And then older people will, you know.

[G]

Yeah, you're not that mature.

[A]

Well, no, not sure.

[G]

Maybe.

[A]

But, you know, but older people might say, but I have a. I have a. I have a youthful spirit, you know, and we. We kind of self advertise and vice versa. Yeah, I'm an old soul. But it's interesting that you. You. You were immersed in this group of 40 people, all different ages, and that you didn't surprise people as much as you thought you.

[G]

That was shocking to me. But okay, half and half, because I think that generally, which was a blessing in and of Itself. The men really created a good bond, I think the women did, within each other as well. I mean, friendship. We came off the show, and I have three or four best friends. I could even say, you know, that I could reach out to at any time. And I think because of that, you know, I think guys will catch on a little bit faster. Maybe not as far as the girls go, but I will say I think Leah caught onto my age pretty quickly. I will say I think she did. I don't know about everybody else, but I'm pretty sure she did. And I think that was part of me just being that goofy, open.

[A]

How old did you think Leah was?

[G]

How old I think she was? I, if I had to put a number on it, I would have said 36.

[C]

Okay.

[G]

I could say she looks down to even 33, 34, which I was saying that the more time I spent with her, I was like, I started adding a year, adding a year, adding year. I was like, okay, I, I landed on, on 36. 41 was definitely a little bit of a shocker, no question.

[B]

Well, you had a, you, you kind of felt things out with Vanessa first. That ultimately didn't work. Why did that not work for you?

[G]

Well, I don't want to. I, I couldn't give such a clear examples, like, why me and Vanessa didn't work. When me and Vanessa connected, we were like, okay, this is a connection. But at the same time, I don't know how deep this is. In a way, it was, like, self explanatory. I don't think we had to tell each other that, hey, this might not be it, but we're gonna give it a shot, which we did. We had a cool date. We also had an awesome morning date. The coffee. And then we went into this mixer, which was the biggest, the, the biggest day of the whole, I think. I mean, I think that mixer changed everything for everybody. That first mixer and I walked in, you know, I didn't want to put pressure on Vanessa to talk to me. I, I, that's the last thing I wanted to do. I didn't want her to feel like she has to talk to me. I was, you know, looking forward to having more conversation, but at the same time, I was like, well, I want to talk to other people, and I think she does too. So I went into it with that mindset within 15 minutes of talking to everybody, like I always do. I look, I see Vanessa talking to someone. I'm like, okay, I'm going to do my own thing, you know, get pulled out, talk For a little bit, have a quick interview, come back in, and I'm like, everybody's paired up. Everybody's one on one right now. I feel like I'm doing loser laps at regatta in Miami again, you know, so I'm doing a loser lap or two, walking around, seeing if I can get someone's attention, you know, at this point, I don't want to jump in, see if anyone looks at me, you know, And I see. And I just walking by, I see Leo standing there, hadn't had a conversation yet besides just looking at each other and just immediately started talking as if we've known each other forever. She started talking to me. Hey, this is. Whatever. Maybe 10 minutes in, I forgot who came up to us. It might have been Tiffany, but somebody came up to us, walked over, and Leah's like, stop. This is my man, man. Like, like, jokingly, obviously, but like, like, this my man. Get away. You know, five minutes into talking, I just thought it was funny, it was cool, it was comfortable. Immediately I felt comfortable. And then honestly, I mean, that changed the whole dynamic of the show for me because it was two things. Number one, I didn't want anybody to feel disrespected. I think that this isn't a typical dating show where you just, like, try everybody or talk to everybody, kiss everybody and see who's the best kisser, right? Like, so that was part of it. I didn't want anyone to feel disrespected, but at the same time, I wanted to give my all to this, right? So, like, at this point, taking it back to that second, I was thinking to myself, well, do I just keep talking to other people? Am I going to do that this entire show? Am I going to at least commit to something? You know? So a few days went by. Obviously had an amazing. I mean, that zipline date, I think, was a game changer for us, was a beautiful moment. We had a beautiful conversation. And then the conversations about moving in together, that was. That was the biggest thing for me because I wanted somebody that I felt comfortable moving in with, obviously going to the show. I hadn't had a relationship or a serious relationship in a. A while, and I wasn't really wanting to be open about the sexual side of things. But it came up early, and I was like, whatever. I got to be open with it. Like, I've been celibate for about two years going into the show. So then moving in with someone was creating a lot of anxiety for me with someone that I wasn't comfortable with, you know, so Being able to have somebody be pretty. Like, she brought it up before I did, which was like, hey, when we move in together, let's not. Like, this isn't about sex. You know what I mean? Like, if that happens down the line, that happens. But this is. Let's put these borders here so that we can get to there.

[A]

What's your definition of celibacy?

[G]

My definition of celibacy is not having sex, but everything else, obviously. Okay. Everything else leads to sex. You know what I mean? When it comes to. You start. You start. You put a line where you want to put it, and I think if you start playing with that line too much, you're going to cross it. I was pretty good about not playing with that line too much, for sure.

[A]

And then what was your reason for making that decision?

[G]

The biggest reason for making my decision on celibacy is my faith. I am a believer. I do believe in the Bible, and I think that it's important. Important to. I believe sex is sacred. There's no question. But taking it a step further, I am very health conscious. I do live in Miami. I know how easy it is to catch something, and I'm not trying to do any of that. In all seriousness, I look towards my future. I look towards my possible future wife, future relationship, and it's like, I don't want any decision I make now to affect my future kids negatively, to affect my future wife negatively. So I just think about that a lot. I mean, if there's one reason as to why I've been celibate is because I'm an overthrow thinker, like, an extreme overthinker. But, you know, here we are, and it's been a while since then, but, no, we're doing okay.

[B]

When Leah brought up you being good at massaging and asking if you had done that with other people, you said no. Knowing that you did have a moment with Vanessa, I think you might have been rubbing her shoulders.

[A]

There's definitely a shoulder rub. There is a shoulder rub.

[B]

There's definitely a shoulder rub would qualify as a massage.

[G]

I would say shoulder rubs.

[A]

They're my. Might have been like, I'm really good at this. Like, you were pitching.

[G]

This is my thing right here.

[B]

Yeah, why not? Why not be upfront about that with Zia?

[G]

One of the, like, most awkward slash funny moments of the season for me, when I'm sitting there and she's looking up and I'm giving her massage, and it's like 20 minutes in, she looks at me, she's like, you're good at this, I was like, yeah, thank you so much. She's like, when was the last time you gave a girl massage? I was like, looked over and I'm like, oh, my God, dude, is this the time for this right now? It's her birthday. It's literally her birthday right now. I'm about to sing her Happy birthday in 20 minutes, you know? I'm like, come on. So played it off. Just not wanting to deal with that in that moment, 20 seconds later, you didn't answer the question, when was the last time you gave a girl massage? And honestly, I think I just played it off again because I just to say, in that moment, right then and there, while she's on the massage table closing her eyes, relaxed with all this euphoria and eucalyptus oil and all this stuff. And I'm like, well, yeah, actually, I massaged Vanessa four days ago in the. In the hot tub right before we kissed for the first time.

[A]

So would you have done anything differently?

[G]

I don't think so, because it wasn't the time. You know what I mean? I mean, like, when was the last time you gave a girl massage? I didn't say I haven't given a girl massage. I just didn't answer the question. You know, and time and place. I know that that's a little bit off, but what's the alternative saying that and then just creating a big scene on her birthday in that moment? It wasn't. To be honest, nobody knows this, but I went into the morning, that morning, ready to have a conversation with Leah and talk about kind of all that. Just lay everything on the table because it wasn't that serious. And I wasn't sure if the other girl had told her about that. I mean, it was a scene, it was a day, and it was over. But just out of respect, let her know. I get to set and I see the entire. All the girls singing her happy birthday, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, dude,

[A]

there's no way that it's today. A big part of. Obviously, we'll get to your final decision to end the relationship with Leah, but throughout the process, you guys not being on the same page when it came to, like, quality time or how much time you guys spent together or vice versa, seemed to be a point of disconnection between the two of you. I just would love to hear, like, how you interpreted that situation, looking back at when that was going on.

[G]

Yeah, that was one of the things that, looking back, I believe that there's no question I wasn't at my Best after moving in together. Lack of sleep. It's the first time I'd ever lived with anybody. Anybody. You know. By week two, I started trying to sleep on the couch just to get rest. Not even because we were fighting or anything, but literally just because I couldn't sleep.

[A]

You moved yourself to the couch?

[G]

Yeah.

[B]

Was she like hogging the covers or snoring or.

[G]

No, not even that deep. But like, you know, obviously, you know, everybody wants to cuddle before sleep and I'm just like, I mean, I run hot to start with that. And then number two, it's, it's already a somewhat uncomfortable situation in the sense of like, let's, let's be honest, we're trying to set a border here and put a line. And then all of a sudden it's the middle of the night after two bottles of wine and we're cuddling and bed. Like where, where is that going? Right? So that, not that that's the reason, but there's ads. It adds, it adds, it adds. And then in those extra moments, I wanted to go to the gym. I wanted to be healthy. I wanted to show her what a healthy life, like this is the lifestyle, this is my routine at home. And I kind of wanted to show her as best as I could. And looking back, maybe that was a mistake, but I wanted to show her as best as I could what my routine is at home and what my day to day is. And it's very hard to do that in a setting that's kind of just

[A]

been like, yo, back at home, I go to the gym.

[G]

You want to take it even further? Like I was exhausted, I was exhausted. I didn't want to take those extra three hours. I would rather take those extra three hours to get that shitty workout that I was getting in and try to like get some food, you know.

[A]

Leah were to say, or maybe some of the fan responses were, took that as you just assigned that you maybe weren't just into her and kind of a way of avoiding having that quality time.

[G]

I wouldn't, I wouldn't agree with it. But I also think that as we got towards, towards the last week or two weeks, I started to distance myself because I was struggling. I was thinking a lot. It's very clear that there was, there was moments that weren't great, you know what I mean? Moments that I broke down more than I've been in years and everyone's going to see that or has seen that already. So I think that part of it was me being a little hypocritical. Because I've talked so much about being vulnerable and how important it is to be vulnerable. And if you want to grow in a relationship, you got to be vulnerable, you got to be open. I think that I was trying to hide a little bit of how much I was actually struggling mentally with it just because I, you know, I didn't know what to. I didn't want to tell her, hey, it's not that I don't want to hang out with you, but if we're going to hang out, like, can we just. We had those conversations, but can we just do this? No, you know, let's go, let's go to the gym. Well, we can't go to the gym together because there's no cameras in there. We got to go one by one, you know. So now it's a problem to go to the gym or now it's a problem to spend too much time in the bathroom or things like that because we don't have that much time together, you know. So, like, in her defense, I think that things that I was complaining about, such as her being on my ass because I took a 20 minute shower, looking back now, it's like, well, because we didn't have that much quality time together, me extending those things probably bothered her more than I needed to. So I get that for sure.

[A]

When you think back in your past relationships, how what does the quality time look like in those?

[G]

Well, that's the thing. That's why I thought about this situation with Leah a lot. And I was like, let's be honest with ourselves here. Because in a true relationship where you're in love with somebody, you kind of want to spend every moment with that them. And that's, there's no question about it, that looking in that moment, asking myself the same question, why didn't you want to go even more, whatever it is, every second of the day, spend time with each other, Rather I was finding myself at the end of the night saying, hey, Leah, like, if you don't mind, you know, I kind of need a 30 minute to myself here. I need to read or I need to watch it just because I need a moment to breathe, you know, I didn't like that because I found myself getting a little overwhelmed and I didn't want her to see that. But yeah, I don't think that that's healthy in a, in a positive relationship. I think that you should want to spend as much time together as you can. That being said, the more you get to know each other, you communicate, you understand each Other, more, you know what each, you know, you know what you like, you know what you don't like. You know what's important. You know that maybe once a week, that's his thing to do every day and he needs that. Or, or she needs this every day. We didn't know those things. So communicating those things are a lot harder. There's, there's no question.

[A]

I mean, listen, I'm, I'm an introvert again guy. I'm good at being alone. Yeah, but like, yeah, when you're, when you're married and you, you have one kid and we work together, I mean, I, I spend every second

[B]

and I'm

[A]

still like with my wife.

[B]

Let me get into your skin. We don't, we're not close enough.

[G]

That's how it should be though, you

[A]

know, and it's like if I can get 10 minutes in the car a day.

[B]

Okay, let's relax.

[A]

No, but I, but, but seriously, you know, you know, you, I hear you, you, you listen, you'll, you'll find your own path. But I am curious. Ultimately, obviously you decided not to move forward with pursuing a relationship with Leah and, and see, you know, kind of suggested that at the end of the day, you're a lovely guy, you're a nice guy, but maybe you do have some maturing to do. What do you think of that feedback?

[G]

I think it's fair. There's no question. I think that I can be very mature in certain things. You know, I had a lot thrown on me early. Business, family, friends, all these things. I think that in my home I'm a centerpiece for a lot of men. But at the same time, none of these men have ever seen me in a relationship, you know, So I think that that changes everything. I think that in a relationship you're prioritizing your woman and she's coming over and then there's 20 guys playing basketball outside. There's 10 guys on a Formula One simulator, there's 10 guys working out. You know, that's not a normal situation for anybody. That's part of, part of it. And then number two, there's no question that maturity in relationships is different. I think the maturity in our day to day, in business, in life, you know, and I'm a little inexperienced in that for sure. I've only had one serious long term relationship and that came out of high school, you know, so to go from that to then, you know, have small relationships where, like I said, with a lot, usually with older women. So that's why I came into this and said, I want to test this, I want to make, I want to go into this, this with everything and try to find something serious if it's there and see does age matter or not. And I think I found that answer. There's no question about it. I think that that also created a pressure for us that wasn't necessarily natural. But I'm still happy with how it went and I'm also happy with how me and Leah have communicated afterwards. There's no question. At least we've been able to stay cordial, at least keep in touch before coming here. I wasn't uncomfortable to give her a call and vice versa. So I thought was cool. So let's see. Hopefully we can keep that, you know, somewhat friendship, a nice thing.

[A]

You know, even relationships that don't work out, they often, if we want to, it can teach us something. What did your relationship with Leah teach you?

[G]

I think that there's so much, so much, I learned so much from the entire experience, but specifically what I learned from my, my relationship, my situation with Leah was I do have some maturing to do, relationship wise, but also, also vulnerability, vulnerability, vulnerability. Openness. Communication is so important. As long as we keep, you know, the respect of the other person, number one, the respect to the other person, the respect to the people around us. I think that that's like the biggest deal breaker for me when it comes to relationship. How do we respect the people around us? How do we respect the people that are serving us? You know, things like this, those are the things that you don't really have to talk about. They just happen. And I learned that I can lead by example by being a servant leader, by, by showing other people what it is to be a leader leader. I also think that constantly we talk about success and success and success. And it's like really we make the definition of success ourselves. But constantly I'm trying to compare success to what the world thinks success is. And I think that that's the same thing in a relationship. Like we compare our relationship to another because that relationship is successful. You know, rather than understanding like we've all been through things, everybody on this cast has a story. But the truth is, is that what we've been through doesn't determine the ceiling of what is possible in our lives. Same thing in a relationship. So I think, think that when it comes to Leah, I've realized maybe age gap this big doesn't work for me. But at the same time I need to be better here, here and here, so that I can show all Myself and same vice versa. And then if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I, I don't want to waste anybody's time either. But it's like it takes time to get to know somebody too. It's hard. I don't know. What do you think it takes time to get to know somebody, but at the same time, how do you get to know somebody quickly? You know, you're spending all day with somebody that you kind of just met and it's like a sped run relationship in a year, you're doing it in a month.

[A]

Well, I mean, I guess just. I guess your question made me think of another question because like, what's different about this show is like say unlike a love is blind or like the Bachelor where there's like, hey yo, like I don't have to get engaged or in Love is blind. You're like, you gotta get married. Like as, you know, like it was like, do you want to keep trying or not? Like, there was no like. And however you guys tried was entirely up to you guys. You guys could have done long distance, someone, you know, there's discussions of moving, but ultimately you decided with leaving that you just didn't. You wanted to end it. So why did you come to that decision without, you know, being open to slowing down the pace and just like exploring each other at a pace that you were more comfortable with?

[G]

Yeah. So going back to pace and how I was saying how I think that things felt a little sped run, almost unnatural. We both want children and that's a conversation we had pretty early. And I think that there was a little bit of, I don't want to use the word delusion, but a little bit of a thought of like, hey, we got plenty of time to think about that. We do. But as soon as we moved into it with each other, not that it was a conversation, but it felt like there was an unnatural pressure to get to know each other way faster than normal. To, to get past these things that almost get past the honeymoon phase. It look, it felt like we went to the honeymoon phase, to the, to the get, you know, the other. All that in, in a week. You know, I don't think that was natural. I also think that, you know, obviously she wanted a man that's successful that can take care of her and her family and that's family values. Right. That being said, is that going to happen next year or is that going to happen four years from now? You know, I'm 27 now. The show aired when I was 26. And I. I do feel like I'm ready to have a family, but at the same time, just saying that makes me feel like I'm not ready to

[A]

have a family, you know?

[G]

I mean, like, who am I to say that? You know, it's.

[A]

No, it's an interesting point of view. I mean, what I'm hearing could be wrong, but, like, it's interesting that you say that because I talk to a lot of women about dating, and I always hear things, you know, like, the women I'll talk to ask for advice. They'll say things like, yeah, he says he wants to have kids someday.

[G]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm always like, well, what is someday? Right. You know, like, what? Sure. Great.

[G]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and listen, like, you're right. We have to meet people. We have to get to know them. But, yeah, I think the devil's in the details. Between. It sounded like hearing you talk about this is like, you. You. The idea of being a father and a husband someday sounds great, and you know that it's a personal goal and you want to do that, but it doesn't. It sounds like you are patient when it comes to getting there.

[G]

Yeah, that's fair.

[A]

And not that other people are less patient, but, like, you know, it all. It comes down to intentionality. You know, I think there's a lot of people who can go on the show or just in life and just, you know, just be very intentional. Yeah. It takes time to get to know people. People. But using this experience, like. Like Leah, you know, she's like, listen, we don't have our phones. We don't have our TVs, we don't have our friends. So, like, we have each other, so let's hang out. And you're like, I'm going to the gym. We got time to get to know each other, you know, and so, like, that was kind of you demonstrating your pace when it comes to, like, wanting

[G]

to connect without even saying anything. Just kind of how I was living. Yeah.

[A]

And. And I think there's not. One's not wrong. But it can demonstrate where two people are with their intentionality in terms of how much they are actually serious about moving a relationship in a direction that would result in a bigger commitment or something as serious as having kids together.

[G]

Yeah, it's very true. It's kind of funny because it's like, what you're saying. You say one thing, and it's not that the actions don't follow, because it's not saying, I don't want kids, but just the way that I'm producing, the way that I'm living, it's like, okay, well, if it comes in three years from now, that's also okay. Comes for five years now, it's also okay. If it comes tomorrow, it's also okay. You know, I think that maybe that's what you're saying, right? That's where I was. And she's kind of come at it, well, I don't have five years, we don't have five years to think about that. Right. So I think that for sure there

[A]

was a pressure there.

[G]

I don't want to keep surrounding the kids also living, moving. She was open to moving to Miami. She didn't prefer it, you know, but I, going into it, I was like, I'm open to relocating kind of halfway through. The more that I thought about it, the more I realized how much I'm leaving at end the home. My father's 77 now. He's, you know, not doing well at all. So if I'm going to spend the last few years away from him, that's kind of ridiculous. And I just started thinking about that a lot out there. So that was another factor as well. I think that there's no question, I can't deny that. But I went into it thinking age doesn't matter. And I think I came out realizing it definitely does. Now I'm not saying it's a deal breaker whether you're older or younger, but age matters. There's. There, there, there's a lot that comes with that, you know, and, and I think that for me, being with a woman 15 years older does put an unnecessary pressure on me because I am kind of that. I've already played that role for my family of like provider or whatever. And to do that to a level that's times 100 right now.

[A]

Well, it seemed like dating someone like Leah and what she brings to the table and she seems to be very like, like self aware about what she wants and what she brings. That like, again, it seemed like it helped you understand kind of where you're not at in terms of like advancing your life. Again, like the, you're, you know, you're supporting your family. That's very noble and awesome. It sounds like you're very grounded and doing well for yourself on a professional level. But like on the romantic level, the idea of it almost sounds like you're, it's, you're almost kind of comfortable with that rather than, yeah, you know, that's fair. And like wanting to be like, that's super fair.

[G]

That's super fair. I think that having someone as intentional as Leah definitely brought. I don't want to say the worst and the best just brought everything out of me. And I think that I've learned. So going back to your question, what did I learn? I think I've learned. I. I feel like I grew years in relationships in just a few days, to be honest with you, because. Because of what you said. Where am I short? Where do I need to improve on? And then also, do I want just the idea of love, or do I want love? And that's a question that I started asking myself after, and I answered it with, I do want love. You know, let's. Let. Let's not go and say, okay, because this doesn't work out. I can't be in a relationship right now. I'm not ready for one. You know, because at the same time, When I was 18, I thought I was ready for reality TV, and then when I was 27, I thought I was not ready. Right. But it worked out now. So it's kind of like, I don't want to say I'm ready or not ready, but I do want to be. Be the best version of myself. And I think Leah definitely, maybe in the moment, it didn't seem like that, but I think that afterwards there was for sure a better version of me when it came to relationships. There's no question. And that'll be shown. That'll be seen soon. Everyone see that?

[A]

Well, buddy, appreciate you answering all our questions.

[G]

Thanks for having me, guys. Seriously, congratulations.

[A]

And thanks for. Again, as always, thanks for being a part of this show. Yeah, it's like what I've. What I've really enjoyed about this show is, like, this opportunity, like these. You know, it didn't work out for you and Leah, but hopefully it was a learning experience. And like you said, it worked for us. It's not for everyone. Compatibility is the most important part in any relationship. And obviously, age differences in some relationships will highlight some incompatible aspects of two people. And it seemed like that was the case with you and Leah.

[G]

I think so.

[A]

But thanks for being part of this, and it's been great getting to know you, bud. All right, Summer house. Where? What are we thinking? What are we at?

[E]

It's interesting that Andy Cohen was on record saying that this is the worst episode for Kyle out of 10 seasons, and I was kind of like, this, this. Yeah, he said this episode was going to be his worst one where I was like, there's also that scene of him, like, going for Carl Calling him a china doll and, like, gonna fight him.

[A]

And I'm just like, well, that's definitely worse than this.

[E]

You know what I mean?

[F]

Well, he did.

[A]

This is definitely worse than that.

[D]

He did call Amanda a fucking dumbass bitch.

[A]

Yeah, that was.

[E]

But did he also call her a fucking bitch last season?

[B]

He's called her this several times before.

[E]

Oh, no, it was a dumbass.

[A]

And not to in any way defend his behavior, but I didn't. I don't remember last time he called his wife a. But he was noticeably belligerent and drunk this time.

[E]

Oh, he was belligerent and drunk last time, was he?

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't know if one was

[F]

like, you know, a little less.

[A]

I mean, if you are sober, it's definitely worse than being drunk and saying that. Both terrible.

[E]

And I'm also kind of like the precursor too, where it was like, last season he was calling her lazy and not dedicated, not motivated, and then topped it off with a. This time she actually did absolutely nothing but made you eyes, according to blacked out Kyle. And Kyle says, you then tries to tell Wes, she said, you first at the club. And it's just kind of like, bro, bro, how do you watch this back?

[B]

And then he's like, but she's not hanging out with me. And it's like, but what are you doing? You're standing at your DJ set with nothing, playing, eating like a cold quesadilla. And it's like, I don't want to stay stand in the sun room with you right now. Like, I'm gonna go hang out with our friend.

[E]

I'm gonna dip my feet in the Jacuzzi and have late night talks. Like, after we've already done the dance party. Kyle, when he brought that speaker out, being like, she fucking lift abandoned.

[H]

Oh, my God.

[D]

And then he's like, swinging it. I was like, kyle, Cook, what the fuck are you doing?

[E]

You also don't get to say that you've been abandoned in your home when she's 10ft away outside with your mutual friends. And it's like, yeah, like, I went outside for some fresh air. I didn't abandon you. And you were more than invited. No one was like, kyle, you stay here. Don'.

[H]

About coming.

[D]

Yeah, don't talk to Amanda, Kyle.

[E]

Like, and then you come outside and that's the energy you bring, bro.

[D]

Literally. I have a question for you guys. Yeah, how so? Kyle talks a lot about lover boy, obviously, and kind of uses that as his reason that he's not the best version of himself. Right Now, Right, right. What do you think the line is of when you have stuff going on in your life but you're still taking that out on, like.

[A]

Great question, great question. But before we get to that, what I'm confused by that is like, to your point, like. Yeah, listen, you know, running a business is stressful. It's a lot, you know, when you feel like you're responsible for a lot of people.

[B]

And he's like, what? I mean, five. He's got like 200 million or something that. A lot of money online.

[A]

Yeah, whatever. It's. I get that. But then why are you dj, you know, if your time is so in the room. But no, that's not. No, but, like, it's not though. It's not.

[E]

But it's not though.

[A]

You know, like, that if all the things. Things he could be doing as a famous public figure with a relationship with Bravo and the marketing he's doing. And like, again, I don't have all the solutions for Kyle, but I just feel like just DJing and. And negotiating that Lover boy is the drink of preference. Wherever he drinks is like, that's like a street game, you know, it's just like, that's knocking on doors. But what about, like, why, like, lover boy? What a. What a great name Amanda came up with as the creative director. Like, why aren't they.

[F]

They're.

[A]

Why aren't we seeing funny bits or like, skits or, like, ads? Try something. Even marketing.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

I just feel like a lot of it is reliance on collaborations with, like, already successful brands. They did one with Boys Lie, which, like, promoted their dirty Shirley drink. But it's like, again, I feel like everybody in today's. In last night's episode was all wearing the boys live merch from that collaboration they're supporting.

[A]

It's really nice, actually. I really liked Sierra's shirt. Henley.

[E]

She had the shirt Amanda was wearing a set. And then you had Lindsay in the sweatpants. They were really cute. They're very supportive. And so it's just kind of like, I don't understand why. Or like the T mobile commercials that are using Lindsay right now. Like, it's like, why wouldn't you be trying to get some sort of national spot or syndicated ad on Instagram?

[D]

Bravo loves to synergize.

[E]

You know what I mean? Like, I'm just. I'm just very confused.

[A]

But he chose to teach it just for clarity. For clarity on that Lover boy. I don't know the relationship. Bravo.

[D]

I mean, Kyle Cook, specifically, like, I feel like Kyle could be No, I

[A]

know, but we are getting a little in the weeds. But like brav, like, you know, the T mobile is paying a lot of money that Kyle doesn't have.

[E]

But I'm just saying in the same sense that like, okay, he feels entitled to them being allowed to promote other drink brands or whatever else it is that I'm like, I think that your group of friends support you no matter what. That if you were like, hey, I'm going to throw together a bit, would you show up? I feel like these people that are already getting a paycheck to do be here happy to Jess Jesse Solomon, perfect example. Jesse Solomon to advertise his tour took. Did like ads in their interviews with like the backdrop that they do for their separate interviews in Summer house to make that a promotion for his tour. So you think you're watching something that's going to be an advertisement for Summer House. And then it ended up being like, go see Jesse on tour. So I'm like.

[A]

But also like, I get being stressed. I get being like grouchy, irritable, reactive. I don't get calling your wife a. Yeah. When you're drunk.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean like you can be a dumbass. You know, like name calling. I mean if you were just. He's name calling. Yeah, you know, it's. There's a difference between being irritable and being like what the. Or whatever and just grouchy with his employee. But he's like, he's. He's name calling.

[B]

I mean, and also like west in been both being able to be like nothing happened that was so unwarranted. Like Kyle, what the are you doing? The fact that like, I mean, she's like sitting there cry. I mean, it's just even cuz like

[A]

west self identifies as conflict averse. He doesn't want to say anything. And the fact that he did, I mean, good for him. But it also speaks to like how it's. Honestly, it sounds like it was worse in real time.

[E]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I feel like Sierra is the only one that's saying exactly what everybody else should be saying. Or they're like, oh, I can't believe that she would suggest such a thing. But I'm like, no, I think that that's the smartest idea for what's going on. You guys are together too much to the point where it's just like you guys don't enjoy being in each other's company. It makes other people uncomfortable. And you guys don't have enough apart time to really figure out, like what you guys want in this relationship. At one point in time last year, Amanda wanted kids and to move to the side. The of suburbs clearly does not want that. This year with Kyle, Kyle saying that she wasn't ready and all that stuff. And now he's on tour every other weekend. Coming to a college near you. Like, it's just.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but do you ever just get, like when you're watching Kyle just be like, I'm. I'm a victim, you know, like he's. But it is, it is coming from a place. At least he believes that point of view.

[B]

When they're showing the, like, nagging or the side. He was like, talking about how, like Amanda does these little side comments, whatever the badgering, and they. And they play them. It was like, well, when she did recap the why you became a dj, like, that was accurate. Like, that is what happened really. And then when you blared music out of a speaker and he said, I'm just. And she said, you're testing my patience. Like, also valid. Like, these aren't things that, like, you should feel like warrants you to call her a dumbass bitch or fuck you.

[A]

I know Kyle's not going to come on the show and walk us through his. His feelings, but I genuinely want to know. It's just like, clearly you have a point of view that you feel no one understands. So can we just, like, take the time and try to understand it? Because it just sounds like. Because I think we all agree we hear the same thing where he just. I guess he just wants unlimited support and cheerleading from his wife regardless of what he wants to do. And it doesn't like, it's like, you, you're a 40. You know, you're not. You're. You're. You're just doing whatever you want and you're expecting your wife to just be by your side regardless.

[E]

Yep.

[A]

And you. I. It doesn't sound like for all the support Kyle wants. And we all want support. We all want to cheerleader, especially as us men. But like, to Amanda's point, him becoming a dj, it's just like, I don't remember the last time Amanda's been like, yo, I want to do this. I want some support. I mean, the bathing suit lies. Yeah. And then he said.

[E]

And he ruined the entire day, right?

[D]

And it's like, yes, he did.

[A]

He's basically like, you selfish bitch for having dreamed. Don't you know I'm a half. Like, you know, it's always, I'm half a million dollars in this and half a million dollars in that and. And blah, blah, blah.

[E]

I've always had sympathy for him in the sense of, like, starting a company. Granted, you know, he's got a finance background. He starts this company. But again, he started an alco because he was a heavy drinker and Amanda was like, can you stop drinking so much? And he's like, well, it's my business. So it's like, here we go again with the DJing. And then it's like in his mind, he's always wanted to be a dj, but it's like, you didn't feel that you could pursue that dream just out of nothing. The fact that you can be a DJ today is based off of the 10 seasons and 11 seasons of support that you've gotten off of Summer House, that people will show up because guess what? They're most likely going to see a Jesse and Amanda, a West as somebody else as well. They're not just coming for coming. Kyle Cook's DJ set.

[A]

I mean, the whole cast isn't.

[E]

Most of them show up for. Not like, when he's like, traveling, but like, a lot of the times where it's just Amanda, you know, like. But people would be at his shows in different cities and whatnot. So it's like. It's not like they don't show up and support him. But I've always. I've always, like, backed him up because I'm like, I can. Couldn't imagine how stressful it would be to be like the numbers guy and kind of be the head of everything. However, like, you know, his company has expanded. If you're struggling and you've been struggling with this debt, like, I don't understand. Understand, like, who. Who are you not talking to? Business manager, accountants, whoever that. I'm like, you continue to slip into debt and make it everybody else's problem and everyone else's fault. So Kyle's allowed to be an. Because no one understands his stress. But you've been under the same stress for the last five, six, seven years, right?

[B]

We've gotta have an action plan.

[E]

You know what I mean? Or, like, a solution or sell the company or whatever it may be. But I'm like, you have no solve, but yet you somehow blame Amanda for everything that's wrong with you, and then everything that's right for you now is DJing that. I'm like, okay, maybe you should be on your own.

[C]

Yeah, Nick, I do kind of. I attempt to empathize with him. A little bit and try to understand, like. And I think what Kyle tries to say is that he doesn't feel heard. The problem is his reaction to everything else is 10 times worse. And like, you can't empathize with someone who's treating other people that way.

[A]

Well, that's very true.

[E]

Yep.

[B]

Stop listening.

[A]

But he still doesn't make sense. It's. It doesn't make sense when he tries

[B]

to explain himself, like in his interviews when he's like trying to. Where you would think he's bone sober. He's like got a clear head and he's explaining. You're still kind of like, yeah, you know, I don't see it. But I mean, I guess, I mean again, we get.

[A]

Everyone acknowledges when you're stressed and there's a weight on his shoulders. But he is doing. We're watching him make a TV show. I mean, we watch him party Thursday through Sunday. I understand it's a job, but we

[B]

did hear Ben be like one. She did does nag and like purposefully get under every.

[C]

Doesn't know her enough though, like make that judgment.

[A]

I will say Ben knows a lot about the Amanda in a way that's

[E]

like, you know, maybe I'm still not.

[A]

Maybe they are too close.

[E]

That's been the bottle thing when. And again to Bailey's point that like, if Jesse makes a light hearted joke, everyone says it's okay. Bailey says one okay, put her foot in her mouth moment and everyone was like, how dare you just. She, she. He says, no, married people are included. Like you are making out with married people. Jesse goes up. Ben wants to be able to make out the married people. There's only one married person on this fucking cast and it's Amanda. Do you think Bailey's an asshole?

[D]

Do you. Do you guys think maybe this is a conspiracy theory? I think they're probably just clocking a vibe between Ben and Amanda regardless of like, they're not going to do anything about it.

[B]

But like, she actually looks happy.

[D]

Yeah. And I think that's what's. I think Kyle's clocking that too. And he's like, what the fuck? She doesn't want to hang out with me.

[C]

Jealousy.

[D]

Yeah, I think he's jealous and he's like not acknowledging that.

[A]

But back to his stress about the business. What are these people on this cast and Amanda supposed to do about it?

[E]

Exactly.

[A]

They don't work for him.

[D]

Not lover. But like, even if he was stressed about Summer House, like, I guess they're all on Summer House so they could Relate. But like, lover boy has nothing to

[A]

do when he's mad. He's. He's like. All he says is he wants Amanda to, like, hang out with him. But also, like, what are they doing? I don't know if what Natalie and I were doing, if we were like, married on the castle summer house, but I, I, you know, and I love spending. We spend all our time together. But, like, if we were at a party house, I don't. I wouldn't be like, you. You have to follow me everywhere.

[B]

Like, he's not even. He's not even fun to hang out with.

[D]

No, his fun.

[B]

So it's not even like to hang out with. You are fun to hang out with. You're not a dick and mean. And like, not, you know, like Kyle is when he's like, can I have a sip of your drink? She's like, are you gonna be nice to me this weekend? Like, if you have to ask your husband that question, we have problem.

[A]

There's one person who thinks I'm nice. It's my wife.

[E]

That's nice.

[D]

I just can't believe. It's just like, Kyle's vibes are so rancid.

[E]

Oh.

[D]

So like, obviously she's not gonna want to hang out with him. I know a couple people. You know, Kyle seems like the kind of person person because he kind of reminds me of, like, one of my friends that I know that he's the kind of guy that, like, when he's in a bad mood or something's going on with him, you can just feel it. You know, those kinds of people. And Kyle gives that to me through the screen. So I can't imagine in real life, I. It's like, yeah, if you're being grumpy and being a little bitch, no one's gonna want to hang out with you.

[C]

What's interesting is like, he, to some degree, sometimes Kyle is like self corrected where he just doesn't say anything. And you tell he wants to say something, something, but then it doesn't help because then when he says something, it's like all of the energy exuding at the same time.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And it's also in his talking head. He was even like, I feel like I'm the worst version of myself this summer. And it's like, okay, are you gonna

[F]

try to fix that?

[A]

But DJ saved his life.

[B]

DJing is the happiest he's ever been.

[E]

But when he said, like, I can't even articulate how I feel, and I'm just like, hello. You've repeatedly if you watch this season from the beginning, Kyle, your biggest problem, communication and understanding and listening. Yeah, because I'm like, at the end of the day, you're talking to your friends about Amanda's behavior and everything that pisses you off. A PA apparently calling her mom to come clean your apartment, but you're not telling Amanda. So Amanda's over here singing your praises, not knowing that you're constantly talking, and she has no problem talking to your face. If she's got an issue with you, then it's like, oh, nobody understands me. Nobody knows what I'm going through. Are you telling people what you're going through so that they can understand you? Or are you just like, nobody understands. I'm in debt, so I should be allowed to party? Because that's what I see.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

I'm not seeing conversations that are productive even when they're in their apartment. When she was like, what's going on with this DJ career? Like, why don't you sit her down and be like, hey, I have a serious plan as to, like, how this is gonna better lover boy? And, like, why? I can understand that you're concerned, but, like, you know why she's concerned. And instead of easing those concerns because you have a functioning relationship, you want to blame anything that's dysfunctional about your relationship on Amanda. And when you're the one that has a problem with communicating and articulating how you feel or what you're going through. And everyone else is just supposed to

[A]

have kitty gloves also just like, a random thought. I don't. I don't. I don't know. Maybe this is a secret genius marketing play, but constantly complaining. And I don't know how well Lovers Boeing doing in reality, but Kyle makes it sound like it's in the fucking trash.

[E]

Six months, he said.

[C]

Six months.

[A]

He made again. He says a lot of things that, you know is someone who knows at least a little bit about business. Like, some. Sometimes I can tell if he's just, like, giving you, like, generic business talk lines that sound important, but I don't really know what they mean.

[B]

Do you think he's trying to, like, be like, it's doing so bad. It's doing so bad. I'm so stressed that people are like, we should buy.

[A]

Well, that's what I'm wondering. But at the same time, that doesn't make you want to buy something. That's like.

[B]

I've said all along. I've said all along that this lover boy is crashing because of the way that you treat your wife. And your friends on this national television show that you are on.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Especially with the name lover boy.

[B]

You do not give lover boy.

[A]

No.

[D]

If anything, give that to, like, it gets sad.

[A]

Jesse DJ DJing in the corner, yelling at his friends because they don't want to listen to his DJ set.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

And then he wants to sell his flowery little drinks. It just doesn't line up.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

I haven't laughed as hard as I did until I saw Sierra in her

[D]

big old tig, all bitties.

[E]

Yeah,

[B]

that was guys.

[E]

I mean, Karma Brown first.

[B]

Just, like, in the mirror in her room, talking to herself. Her going so funny when she was

[D]

like, I'm so funny.

[B]

Relatable. Yeah.

[E]

No. And she was going down backwards on the stairs with the walker.

[F]

Jesus.

[B]

So funny.

[A]

The fact that she. You didn't realize why she was walking. Walking down the stairs that way, but you realize she would have fell forward.

[D]

It was a reveal. It was awesome. She is so Sierra, really.

[F]

She.

[D]

I don't think Sierra gets enough credit for how fucking funny she is.

[B]

She told AJ she needs to go up to paint her titties, and he's like, sorry, what? Like, I think we all were, like, confused the second we saw her titties. We were like, no, she had to go paint. And that probably took a while.

[E]

Yeah, they're pretty big costume queen.

[D]

And then also she gave KJ some, like, really sweet good advice, you know, of just, like.

[A]

Which seemed like Lindsay's really just there to start.

[F]

Sure.

[E]

Lindsay's a reality TV star, and I don't want to hear other why. Yeah, I need her. Madison lacroix. These are people that literally know how to stir the pot just in the right way. And they can literally leave. They can leave and they're, like, seen. She's like, yeah.

[B]

I don't know why she was in there with Ben for an hour, but anyway.

[E]

Oh, you didn't know? Oh, no. Oh, my God.

[A]

She's like. I literally went in change. I mean, and her. Her version of the story was very believable.

[E]

Yeah. And I'm pretty positive we watched that happen. Yeah.

[B]

I was going to say, didn't we see a scene of them in his room? Yeah.

[E]

And she literally went to go change. Her suitcase was in there, came out, and then he was, like, flirting with her, trying to get her number.

[D]

You know what's funny? I think Lindsay and Bailey represent, like, seasoned reality. Tea vet of stirring the pot. And then, like, Newbie, like, she's doing her best because the way Lindsay, like, dropped that Info if it didn't. And it didn't really, like, land at the end of it. So she's gonna move on and then. But you now have Bailey, who, like, this is gonna be the rest season. Is her drama with Dara because. Dara.

[F]

Sorry.

[D]

With her drama with Dara because of what Lindsay said.

[A]

So is. I'm just genuinely. Is Jesse singing and these. Is he making like. He's. Is he not. He's not DJing. Right. He's. He's up there.

[D]

Singer. He's a musician. He writes music. He writes songs about every girl he meets.

[E]

His lower third says.

[A]

Yeah, have we seen a performance yet?

[D]

I mean, he sung at Shabbat.

[B]

Dinner.

[A]

Really care.

[E]

I'm a little curious about dinner.

[D]

He's talking about dinner. He said it very nice.

[E]

He did. No. He had a show last year that a bunch of people went to in New York City where he does his originals and then maybe covers. Like a Sinatra or a Buble.

[B]

He's a Sinatra.

[D]

He's a crooner.

[E]

He's a. Yeah, he's not a. He's like a Michael Buble type genre. He's not a

[B]

Michael. Vladimir and Frank Sin.

[E]

I know. Actually, people are gonna come for me in the comments because of that, but I'm saying that I said he was of that genre.

[C]

He does have a lower voice. He can, like, reach.

[E]

Remember when he first came on?

[D]

He's the.

[A]

I just need barbecue Sal.

[D]

I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. We're. I'm gonna play it for everybody. We are gonna cut us listening to it because of copyright reasons, but we're gonna play a Jesse Solomon song.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

We definitely.

[C]

Some of it's R and B, though. I've heard one of them.

[E]

Is this the one?

[A]

This is Jesse Solomon.

[E]

Yep.

[A]

That's not bad.

[D]

He's getting streams that had 85,000.

[C]

That's a lot.

[F]

Yeah.

[D]

That's not bad. He probably made a whole $10.

[A]

I only listened to 10 seconds, but it was better than I was expecting.

[D]

I. I'm keeping my mouth shut. I wish I had a voice on Jesse Solomon's music. I think he's.

[B]

I feel like, honestly, that is what you sound like when you try to sing.

[A]

You think so?

[F]

I do.

[A]

Can I start a music career?

[E]

Nick Going on tour next summer.

[F]

Oh, my God.

[E]

You asked for this.

[D]

You thought Kyle Cook was a good dj.

[A]

Is there a point in the song where he really goes for it? Like, really hits?

[C]

I don't know.

[D]

I've never. That's the first time I've ever listened to it. What else?

[A]

Is it because he's a reality TV star that you're. You're. You. You don't know.

[B]

It is because this started off of just like a cute little moment on the show where he just like. And sang for his peers and they were all like, oh, cute.

[F]

Haha.

[B]

And then everyone was like, oh, my God, this is such a moment. So funny. And he was like, ok, I guess I'll like, win a Grammy.

[A]

But what if. What if, like, you know, I've. I've always. I've always been a little good at art. I've had seasons of being artistic.

[D]

Is feeling sensitive because of his paintings?

[A]

No chalk. No. I think it's more as a reality TV star where I think we're never like, you know, for example, and I get it's different and it's reality tv, but like, I remember being crucified for trying. Not very well, but trying to have a little bit of a fashion taste on the Bachelorette. And you realize this is not the time to take fashion risks. It's just not the time to go

[B]

like, it's like your scarf moment.

[A]

Scarves or the bracelets, you know, like, whatever. Just like, just.

[B]

Just trying.

[A]

Just trying.

[D]

You know, I did tell Nick recently that when I first started working here, I was scared of him. And then I saw a picture of him from his bachelorette season wearing a little infinity scarf, and I went, oh, he's like a person.

[F]

That's all I needed to see.

[A]

That's all I needed to see, I guess. What if. What if I was like, what if I just, you know, also was like, wanted to really lean into the art and be like a professional sidewalk char artist.

[D]

You should.

[B]

A sidewalk chalk artist.

[A]

Okay, what if. What if I got back into my oil paintings and I. And I organized the paintings?

[B]

No, no, no. That's a good point, Natalie. Selling the paintings, it's like, okay, if someone wants to buy a painting. Sure, someone buy a painting. Like, that's a.

[A]

But what if I got like.

[B]

If you're like, hey, guys, I'm gonna sell a live show to watch me do chalk Dr. In the backyard. And like, no, that's not fun to watch. I mean, that's basically what he's doing.

[D]

Well, he's playing music. It's more. That's something people normally go to.

[E]

Reality music in the background.

[A]

Like, you know, like, especially the boys. Like, the women are on the gram, you know, selling the products. Yeah, the boys, the boys. It's harder for them to do. But what they can do is show up to bars because the ladies want to meet the boys.

[B]

I feel like Amanda Francis and Jesse Solomon are the same person. And I do feel like they are both just like a little allegedly S C A M M E R s and maybe like they're conning us out

[C]

of our don't come for my girl.

[A]

When Amanda describes her like they clearly. Well, they're not married anymore. But she was like, I'm. I'm an old woman at heart.

[B]

She was like, I would love to go to the club in a nightgown and socks.

[F]

That's.

[D]

That's real.

[A]

Kyle's like, I. I want to freeze in time as an 18 year old.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And like that. That.

[E]

That's.

[A]

That's this married couple and Amanda just

[D]

wants like a nice, good dinner with her husband. Husband that she loves.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

She doesn't even have to talk to him really.

[E]

But even to. To your point that I'm like, even then we've seen Amanda and Sierra, but Amanda more so go out more than she ever has any summer.

[H]

Yeah.

[E]

And it's just like. And again. Yet you're still finding things to pick at her. Oh, you're being fun with my friends, but not with me. It's all group.

[A]

Last episode, man was up till 4am

[E]

I'm saying she was up till 2.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

This time, like, it's like she's partying and committing.

[F]

Setting up.

[E]

Sorry. As a Virgo, this one really got. But like when Amanda asked for help

[B]

and no one got up and no

[E]

one got up and they were still. And they're sitting there gossiping about her marriage, I was like, I love y'.

[B]

All.

[E]

I love y'. All. Get the fuck up. She's getting poked in the face setting up. And you guys are just feel so bad for her because last night she got cussed out, then helped the girl that's getting cussed out setting up trees

[B]

by herself for her husband that cussed her out.

[E]

Oh, that pissed me off so bad.

[B]

She got that Cartier watch. What do you think she got him a party?

[E]

Yeah.

[F]

Yeah.

[E]

And that's. You better be that make out that glam, 90 minute glam. You got to get in that chair right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I. I almost sided with Amanda and Beverly Hills housewife.

[D]

Let's hear it.

[C]

I mean, they said Bo said she was Pinocchio and then acted like she never said it literally.

[B]

And then Natalie, sorry. Like, I get that you're not a housewife and maybe you're just like uncomfortable but, like, the way that she absolutely shut down and clammed up and was like, I don't. No, I. I didn't say that.

[F]

I just said.

[C]

I just, like, it wasn't that bad. Y' all should have just owned up to it.

[E]

Listen, that's what I was gonna. I also think.

[A]

Is it petty for sure.

[E]

In my. In my defense of Bose, I'm gonna say that I think she said that it was. It literally was such a flippant comment and response.

[C]

It meant nothing to her.

[E]

That it meant nothing to her, that she didn't register that as, like a. Oh, like, I really came for Amanda's jugular. And again, Amanda, you're one person away. If you're gonna be direct, then say it to her. Be like, I'm sorry. What was that?

[C]

Yeah, so let hurt Amanda's feelings. And you can't, like, negate that.

[A]

Yeah, but hold on. But, like, I. I. These are all valid points in, like,

[E]

yeah, we're also on a TV show.

[B]

No, but the. In the TV show, what she should have done is.

[E]

I'm sorry, what? Bose.

[B]

Did you just say my name? Yeah, like that.

[A]

Yeah, but she heard it.

[E]

She heard it.

[B]

Yeah. She goes. She literally looks at Bose, looks back. They take a photo, whatever they're doing. Then in her itm, she's like, I'm literally one person away from you. I'm right next to you.

[E]

And I heard it. And so that's where I'm just kind

[A]

of like, no, Yeah, I am. Team Bo goes. Then I'm.

[C]

I'm. It was a joke, though. I heard it was, and it was a joke, but still, like, she felt some type of way. Like, I don't think that.

[E]

And that's fine, but Amanda wanted to feel some type of way, and I. I'm actually gonna back up Dorit, where I'm just like, yeah, Amanda does show up on these group situations, like, already wounded bird. Like, you're not adding anything. Yeah. It's like, you're just, like, this victim in this group, but then you're also saying, like, my life is perfect.

[A]

She's also really entertaining, though.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Her being like, my life. What does she say over and over again? Like, sorry, my life is, like, so great, and it is beautiful, and it is perfect. And they're all like, but it's not. And, like, that's okay. No one's life is perfect.

[A]

Just out of curiosity, what is not perfect about her life that these women want to make?

[B]

I think she was in a cold real. And be like, Listen, like, my life isn't perfect. I do. I fight with my husband. My kids don't listen to me. My house can be a mess sometimes. Like, I was late on that. On paying my car insurance. Insurance. Like, just. But she's like, no, I'm perfect, and nothing is ever wrong in my life. And my. My life's so great, and I make more money than my husband, and I can afford this. And I have a Chanel.

[E]

Oh, you have one of those.

[F]

I have two.

[B]

That's what it is. She's just not being, like, authentic and genuine with these women who, like, clearly are very open about the struggles that they go through.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

And even the culture. That's what they said. That's where even Erica was like. I think the realest moment and the best moment I've had with Amanda yet is hearing her talk about this cult, because it's something that really happened to her, allegedly. And it's also something that, like, she was able to open up and talk about. I guess we didn't really get to see the full picture of it because I was like, I don't really feel like, from what we saw, it felt very open.

[C]

I don't like the way that they're treating the cold thing, though. Like, I think it's like she shared it, and I think they're addressing it in a way of, like. Well, now we're going to say that maybe that didn't actually happen. No, I just feel like they should just believe it at face.

[A]

It feels like they're wet. Yeah.

[D]

They're trying to.

[A]

Like, they're. It's like they're weaponizing it. What's like? Is dirty the word called. And then it's like, okay.

[H]

Yeah.

[B]

And then asking chat GPT. Then being like, well, this must be truth. Yeah, that's dirty.

[A]

That was stupid.

[B]

I was proud of Sutton for being like, guys, what are y' all doing?

[C]

Yeah, Nancy Drew is back. That's all I gotta say.

[D]

You know, to Sierra's point, I think what some of the women on Beverly Hills may be recognizing Amanda and having issue with is, like, this, like, pastiche that she presents with versus, like, being a real person to them. Because I think, like, not to say she isn't, but Amanda seems to me like the kind of person that really has. She manifests. She left this. Like, she was in this cult. She left. She had such a huge change in her life, and she had to virtually reinvent herself and create herself. So I think what's happening is she's presenting just all of this artifice, of this person she's created of herself. This, like, money. What. What is she calling the money queen? Yeah, she's like. She's the money queen. When she's going on TV and presenting herself to these women, and they're like, that's not you. That's the you you've created. What is. Where's the person in here?

[A]

Right.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The only. The only, like, it's like a chicken before the egg is like, I wouldn't want to open up to a bunch of people who clearly hate my guts.

[E]

Agree.

[A]

For the record, you know, and who are like, tell us who you are. Tell us who you are. Tell you.

[E]

You came on Beverly Hills Housewives. There's a million. There's millions of other people that are watching the show that are also asking who the.

[B]

Are you.

[C]

Did you. I get it.

[A]

But she definitely, as everyone else does, comes on to promote her business.

[E]

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. When you. You come on these shows without having the. The want to be authentic and, like, want to get to know these people, and you want to promote your business, people aren't gonna. With you because it, like, it's just so obvious that it's fake or that you're not allowing people in, that they're like, well, what. Why. Why would I.

[A]

Being said, she's very entertaining, and she's the only.

[D]

She is.

[C]

You know, she did an interview where she said, it's hard for me to watch back, like, the confessionals because she didn't realize how much people actually hated her.

[B]

Like, the other women.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And she's watching and, like, watching these confessionals of, like, the other women acting actually, like, talk behind her back for the first time. And she didn't realize that, which is something, too.

[F]

That's definitely sad.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Also, Buddha Kathy. I love Kathy Hilton.

[E]

Did you say Buddha Cathy called her, right?

[F]

Oh, Buddha Cathy.

[E]

I thought you said boo to Kathy.

[C]

No, Buddha Kathy, because she just came out of nowhere with wise information.

[A]

The recent reports about Dorit filing for bankruptcy. How much do we know about that? Or is that just.

[C]

I don't know.

[E]

She answered that on watch what happens live. I don't remember her full answer to that.

[B]

Pk.

[E]

Like, didn't.

[B]

That was something he was supposed to be taking care of, and he never told her that he stopped taking care of it. And here we are.

[E]

I don't know if he paid up to date or something. I remember hearing something like that, but I'm not sure. I can't confirm.

[B]

But like, that is.

[E]

That is a. I will say, though, one thing that I saw that was funny about Amanda, I guess people on the Internet were like, coming for her this episode and trying to claim that

[C]

the dress Dolce and Gabbana. And then she went that it was

[E]

closet and that she was like, that it was a dupe. And she's like, I literally getting out of that. She's like, I literally cannot believe that I'm doing this.

[C]

Doesn't even edit the video. Just like one shot and then shows

[E]

both the labels that they are authentic Dolce and Gabbana. But it's just like, it is kind of like where I'm like, y', all, there's so many things to pick at. Like, you guys are really coming for, like, her outfit.

[C]

They came for her. Birkin, too. She had to confirm that the woman is rich.

[E]

She bought Kyle Richard's house. Like, I don't really think it's so much that there's a question of her wealth.

[D]

Do you think she's richer, though? A lot of them?

[E]

I'm sure she is.

[D]

Do you think that's what the core of a lot of this is?

[E]

I mean, I guess that's actually kind of hard to say.

[D]

It also is. Is like Amanda doesn't really have, like, chemistry with a lot of the women. You know what I mean?

[E]

Besides Kyle.

[C]

Besides Kyle just go random, though. Kyle's aligns with her, doesn't it?

[D]

Well, she lives in her old house.

[B]

It's also giving, like, maybe Kyle doesn't have, like, the same allies that maybe

[C]

she needs someone to help.

[B]

Like, kind of like Kyle's been on

[E]

this show since the jump, so she also knows how the audience reacts to gang ups and whatnot. So I think it was in her best interest, in her mind to be behind Amanda because it's like, nobody likes a bunch of mean girls.

[F]

Yeah.

[D]

And she doesn't have to be like, oh, like Kyle's been on Beverly Hills forever, is just bullying the new girl. And then she can kind of stay out of the drama in that because

[A]

there is a little bit of like, they just hate Amanda for the sake of hating Amanda. Yeah, they're a little bit. Yeah. But. All right, when. How many more episodes before the reunion do we have?

[C]

Oh, I don't know.

[D]

Not any. We're. We're getting to the end, I imagine the reunion.

[H]

I.

[D]

What episode is this?

[E]

15, actually. I don't know, because Bravo.

[D]

Peacock's being weird with the Watch what happens lives episodes in the. Yeah. By the way, if anyone's listening. Can you guys stop doing that?

[E]

No, it's so annoying.

[C]

I think it makes sense, though.

[D]

No, it's confusing.

[A]

I don't know. Create its own channel. Yeah.

[D]

Watch what Happens Live does have its own.

[A]

Well, then why did they put it on the beverage?

[D]

They do it for all housewives now. If there's a housewife from that show, they'll put Watch what Happens Live after the episode, I think to encourage people to watch their interview.

[E]

It rolls right into that episode, which,

[D]

like, I get makes sense, but have it just be on autoplay on Peacock instead of putting it in the season thing.

[A]

So truly, honestly, no one who's listening cares about this. We care about it because we're always like, which episode are we watching tonight?

[F]

No, I guarantee you a lot. I.

[D]

Hey, if you're in the. In the comments, let us know if you care about this, because I know you do.

[E]

I have something that maybe nobody cares about. But, like, I thought was weird about this episode, Kyle and her Bottega bag, and she was like, I got this. We didn't see her buy it in. Where are they in Italy? Does she have that bag in the

[B]

black bag that she was holding? Yeah. No, but they were. It was. It seemed very much like, does she have a paid sponsorship with Bottega?

[E]

There's. I don't even know what.

[C]

I said the name a lot.

[E]

I don't know what it is. But not only did they not go into the store, but she was carrying that bag in the airport. The clip of them when they show them at the airport or whatever, it's on Kyle's shoulder. And she's like, I bought this bag in Italy. I was like, did you buy it at the airport in Italy? Because you didn't buy it at the Bottega that y' all went into.

[C]

And I'm thinking editing, though, maybe, like, she had that bag, but there was a bag in. The way they edited it made it sound like she was talking about that bag.

[E]

It was. It's in, like, as they're getting off of the plane, she has it on her shoulder.

[C]

But she might have bought a different bag is what I'm saying.

[E]

It's the same back, I promise.

[C]

But maybe they didn't show the bag she bought.

[E]

That's why I said maybe you don't care some people, because it's just a weird. It's a weird storyline to put in there and to emphasize Bottega so much, to then go into Dior and go into all of these other stores, and then it's like, I got this one bag that no one can get. And she made this whole point about

[A]

it, but wasn't it kind of. That does bring up something that I thought was weird. Okay, this is Beverly Hills Housewives. The intro is showing all these stores and they go all the way to Italy to go to the exact same stores. They gazed in their backyard.

[C]

She it's cheaper out there.

[E]

First of all, that is kind of a farce. But I think it's funny when Rachel said that money doesn't exist in, in Europe, I understand that because obviously the euro to American dollar tax. So it's like you go in there and you're like, oh my God, it's €1600. But that's still like two grand to $2500 when you convert it back into American dollars. So that's why I think it's just so funny that everyone's like, no, it's cheaper.

[B]

But you just go, you go to the little tax thing at the airport and get your tax.

[E]

Nobody does that bullshit.

[A]

You tell your husbands, I smoke my

[E]

bags back into the country.

[A]

It's like, I'm being thrifty.

[B]

I bought you a bunch of like Amazon clothes so that I could get this designer.

[D]

Yeah, no, that's thinking economically.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm like, listen, like, we're having two more twin girls. Like, oh, we can just reuse River's clothes, but I'll just buy another one of all of Rivers clothes so that they can match.

[D]

That's actually genius.

[E]

Yeah. Have we talked pushback present yet?

[B]

I've put the new, I mean, it's like impossible to get or to find, but the new Chanel collection, I've put screenshot photos of them, talking articles of clothing.

[A]

I, I, my parents have done this a couple of times and I will do this, but it will be like, I can tell they want something.

[E]

Uhhuh.

[A]

And instead of just being like, I want this, you know, can we do it? I get the, I get, you know, all the practical reasons why this makes sense.

[C]

Sense.

[B]

Because I wanted to move river into a, I wanted to redo her room and like give her a floor bed. And we just bought the like toddler rail to go on. It like attaches onto her crib. So she's still in her crib. It's just like a little, she can get like in and out by herself. And I was like, I feel like maybe we should like redo a room and get like a twin size floor bed because I feel like she needs more room and I Feel like she's gonna sleep better. And Nick's like, I don't like, do you just, like, want this, like, because

[F]

you want it, or do you actually

[A]

think, like, because, like, we just switched it. She's like, well, she's not sleeping as well. And I'm like, it's been one day.

[B]

He's like, she's gotta adjust. And I'm like, I just feel like maybe she would have already.

[D]

Also, in. In your defense, it's like the bed, getting the bed. You're gonna need it eventually. It doesn't really hurt to get it now and then. It's like, maybe she can switch back and forth, see what she likes.

[E]

And, like, maybe on top of it. It could be like a little, like, playpen loft situation. Yeah. Or just extra seating

[A]

effort to make it sound so practical where it makes so much sense and it's like, you just want it.

[C]

Did she.

[E]

I appreciate the.

[C]

Did she get out of her crib?

[F]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But the. But the carpet in her room is like, is. Is very thick, so she can't open the door by herself.

[D]

Oh, my mom had to like, lock my closet because I used to go in there and tear my clothes out of the. I was a disaster as a child.

[A]

Anyway, well, all right, well, thanks for listening. Appreciate our guest, Chris from Age of Attraction as well as Arden Marine. We appreciate them both and appreciate you guys listening. We'll see you next week.

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