E1100 Ask Nick - He's Dumping Me Because I Got The Job

Summary

The Viall Files, Episode E1100 - Ask Nick: "He's Dumping Me Because I Got The Job"

Date: March 30, 2026
Host: Nick Viall
Co-hosts/Contributors: Natalie Joy, Nicole
Theme: Navigating Complicated Breakups, Personal Growth, and Friendship Drama

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Episode Overview

In this episode of "Ask Nick," Nick Viall and his co-hosts take on the emotional complexities of breakups, life transitions, and friendship conflicts. With three main callers—Hannah, Nicole, and Rose—the panel offers heartfelt insight and practical advice on moving through loss, standing up for oneself, and embracing the unknown. The stories spotlight themes of self-worth, moving forward after heartbreak, and balancing ambition with relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hannah: Processing a Situationship Breakup, Divorce, and Grief

Timestamps: 02:15–29:27

• Topic: Why does a brief situationship hurt more than leaving a long-term marriage?
• Hannah (36) shares her recent separation from her husband after eight years and her father’s passing, then dives into the emotional aftermath of a short, passionate rebound that ended abruptly.
• Nick’s Analysis:
  • The divorce didn’t hurt as much because Hannah initiated it and had felt relieved when it ended. Most of her struggle was already processed over several years of staying in a chaotic relationship.
  • The “situationship” hurt more because it was filled with hope, novelty, and the unknown—what could have been, rather than what actually was.
  • Nick (07:59): “It was just like a weight off my shoulders. And it was like, I’m free. … It was the best day of my life when I dropped her off.”
  • The hope for the future with this new person was ripped away without closure, which is more jarring than a long-decided ending.
  • Hannah’s ego and optimism were bruised: “I was so happy and excited for the first time in a long time, too. And then it just went away…” (Hannah, 10:05)
• Advice:
  • Give yourself grace—strong feelings after a short relationship are normal, particularly during times of major transition.
  • Don’t ruminate or assign meaning to “why it ended” beyond the fact that sometimes people just aren’t a fit.
  • Remind yourself what you gained: “Everything you signed up for when you chose to leave that marriage is still on the table.” (Nick, 15:03)
  • Focus on friends, kids, and new beginnings rather than immediately prioritizing dating.
  • Use therapy to move forward, not continuously rehash past hurts.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • Nick (19:47): “I look at it for what it was. A fun little rebound, a fun little moment.”
  • Nick (27:14): “It’s a dangerous game if we want to make progress emotionally and move on.”

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2. Nicole: Is It Wrong to Date a Guy My Ex-Best Friend Dated?

Timestamps: 33:06–72:22

• Topic: Nicole (30) seeks outside validation after an ex-best friend calls her character into question because Nicole is now dating a man that her friend went on two dates with—three years ago.
• Backstory:
  • Nicole and her friend had a falling out after a tense bridesmaid’s dinner where Nicole, once promised a maid of honor spot, was demoted without warning, felt blindsided, and tried to address the issue privately.
  • The friend publicly called out Nicole, and the friendship ended with a barrage of accusatory texts.
  • Months later, Nicole begins dating the guy, and the ex-friend reacts strongly (“That’s just desperate to me”).
• Nick’s Analysis:
  • The gripe is not about the guy, but about the friend’s need for control and to remain the center of attention.
  • Nick (52:06): “As you reflect back, as you said, this is someone who, when you think about it, has had a lot of falling outs with other friends, maybe not you…”
  • Nicole is not in the wrong, especially given the ex-friend’s reactionary and self-centered patterns.
  • Relationships from high school often survive on history alone—not on current compatibility or mutual support.
  • Nicole’s concern about her own character stems from residual hurt and the abrupt loss of a long-term friendship, not from any actual breach of “girl code.”
• Advice:
  • Don’t let someone’s cruel criticism make you doubt your integrity when mutual friends—and your own reflection—tell you otherwise.
  • Mourn the old friendship if you must, but accept that it may be healthier to move on.
  • If the friend ever reaches out again, it’s okay to stand firm and defend your choices.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • Nick (56:27): “The most selfish people in the world are the ones who are guilty of accusing other people of being selfish, right?”
  • Nick (70:00): “She has a little bit of a bruised ego… She clearly prioritizes her feelings above anyone else's.”

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3. Rose: Is It Wrong to Choose a Dream Job Over Love?

Timestamps: 75:10–113:59

• Topic: Rose (28) broke up with her boyfriend after two years because he refused to even try long distance when she got a dream job in Miami. She wonders if she’s making a mistake giving up “the one.”
• Backstory:
  • Rose was openly communicative, confirming with her boyfriend that the move could work and would be temporary.
  • Months later, he abruptly reverses course, says he can’t do long distance, and drops their relationship (“I don’t want to do long distance for anyone”).
  • He offers no willingness to compromise, and even after Rose asks if he’d consider couples therapy, he declines.
  • Their breakup is finalized before she even departs for Miami, leaving Rose feeling guilty and questioning if she’s selfish for pursuing her career.
• Nick’s Analysis:
  • He likely used Rose's great opportunity as an excuse to exit a relationship that wasn’t fully working for him.
  • Nick (93:14): “Forget he ever said that. He didn’t mean it...that was something he said to put the blame on you…”
  • Truly supportive partners find joy in each other’s dreams and show willingness to collaborate during transitional periods.
  • Nick (104:34): “There are seasons…where it’s my time to show up for you because you’ve shown up for me…in every relationship and certainly every marriage.”
  • Rose’s actions are justified; she’s not giving up “the one”—this relationship wouldn’t have supported her growth or ambitions.
• Advice:
  • Don’t wait or hold out hope for someone who isn’t willing to support or fight for the relationship.
  • Embrace the move as a fresh opportunity, not something to feel guilty about.
  • If the ex ever returns, only consider reconciliation if he is willing to make meaningful changes and offer real support.
  • Nick (113:24): “He’s on his own team—so if he ever wants to be on the team together, he’s gonna have to be the one to put that effort in because…now it’s like—I’m moving forward.”
• Memorable Quotes:
  • Nick (109:13): “You’ve done everything you could…so, the ball’s in his court, and if he wants to man up and face his fears and figure his shit out, he can.”
  • Rose (109:30): “If he wants to figure it out, like, that’s great. But if not, I’m going to Miami. I’m gonna embrace this opportunity and just not look back.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 07:59 | Nick | "It was just like a weight off my shoulders. And it was like, I’m free." | | 10:05 | Hannah | "I was so happy and excited for the first time in a long time, too. And then it just went away..." | | 19:47 | Nick | "I look at it for what it was. A fun little rebound, a fun little moment." | | 27:14 | Nick | "It’s a dangerous game if we want to make progress emotionally and move on." | | 52:06 | Nick | "As you reflect back...this is someone who...has had a lot of falling outs with other friends, maybe not you..." | | 56:27 | Nick | "The most selfish people in the world are the ones who are guilty of accusing other people of being selfish..." | | 70:00 | Nick | "She has a little bit of a bruised ego… She clearly prioritizes her feelings above anyone else's." | | 93:14 | Nick | "Forget he ever said that. He didn’t mean it...that was something he said to put the blame on you..." | | 104:34 | Nick | "There are seasons…where it’s my time to show up for you because you’ve shown up for me…in every relationship and certainly every marriage." | | 109:13 | Nick | "You’ve done everything you could…so, the ball’s in his court, and if he wants to man up and face his fears and figure his shit out, he can." | | 113:24 | Nick | "He’s on his own team—so if he ever wants to be on the team together, he’s gonna have to be the one to put that effort in because…now it’s like—I’m moving forward." |

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Episode Structure & Section Timestamps

• [02:15–29:27] – Caller #1: Hannah – Why am I more hurt after a situationship than my divorce?
• [33:06–72:22] – Caller #2: Nicole – Friendship fallout and "girl code"
• [75:10–113:59] – Caller #3: Rose – Picking dream job over relationship

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Takeaways for Listeners

• It’s normal to grieve different types of loss in different ways.
• Hope and possibility are sometimes more painful to lose than established realities.
• Standing up for yourself in friendships and relationships is hard but often necessary for growth.
• Pursuing your goals and dreams does not make you selfish, especially if your partner can’t meet you with the same effort.

Listeners will gain encouragement to honor their feelings, trust their choices, and move forward, even when closures aren’t perfect, and support isn’t mutual.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Nick Viall]

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[Rose]

You're crazy.

[Nick Viall]

How's it going?

[Nicole]

Good.

[Hannah]

My name's Hannah and I'm 36. And my question is, why did the ending of my situationship hurt worse than the ending of my actual divorce?

[Nick Viall]

Okay, where do you want to start?

[Hannah]

I guess I could start with, you know, my divorce and kind of the relationship I had with him.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Hannah]

And why it ended. So we were together for like eight years and we do have a son together, but it was kind of like a chaotic relationship. I'd say, like lots of ups and downs, not very healthy kind of the whole way through. So I'm the one that Initiated the separation, even though I should have done a long time ago. I did it around, like, October, so it is kind of still new.

[Nick Viall]

You ended last October, so.

[Hannah]

Yeah, the October that just went by, like, 2025.

[Nick Viall]

So probably, technically, you're still married, I'm guessing.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. You guys are definitely getting divorced.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I've moved out. I'm in my own apartment.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. I'm just guessing when you. And when you asked for the separation, I'm guessing there was almost a sense of relief.

[Hannah]

Definitely.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I was pretty much ready to leave probably about three years ago. Another layer to it, like, what I think gave me the push to finally leave is I did lose my father in June, so I feel that kind of, in a weird way, gave me a push to do it. I don't know why, but I just. It did.

[Nick Viall]

Death and losing people we love, it's a finite thing. It makes us value our own lives a little bit more. It gives us perspective. It makes us. It reminds us that life is short. We. You know, our time is limited. And obviously, you were going in this. You were in this marriage spinning your wheels, feeling a certain way, staying in the marriage. Obviously, you were, you know, obviously, to death do you part. And so there's this big commitment you make to each other, but you were probably grappling with, do I invest in this marriage and try to make it work, or do I accept it for what it is and not waste my life and try? You know, I'm still young, and I'm still in my early 30s. I guess it had something to do with. Along the lines, it gave you perspective that you weren't processing until the loss of your father.

[Hannah]

Perspective's a good way to put it. Like, definitely. Like, after losing him, it's like, okay, if I can handle that, if I can get through that, I can do this.

[Nick Viall]

Sure.

[Hannah]

Almost like. Do you know what I mean?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So, yeah, like. And it was like he agreed on the separation. It wasn't like he was begging me to stay or anything. He was pretty quick to move on. Right. On to, like, the dating sites. And he started seeing someone kind of right away.

[Nick Viall]

How did that make you feel?

[Hannah]

It hurt a bit, but I still didn't, like, want him back.

[Nick Viall]

It just hurt your ego?

[Hannah]

Yeah. Yeah, a little bit. Like, yeah, it's still kind of shitty to think of him with somebody else. Sure. Obviously.

[Nick Viall]

But, hey, listen, when we. When we end relationships, like, it's like, I don't want you, but I want you to still want me.

[Hannah]

Yeah. So then I Guess. Fast forward. Just till around, like, December. Like, I wasn't looking for anyone else, even though he was kind of with somebody else, but somebody just randomly added me to Instagram. I didn't know him. We had a lot of mutual friends. I think that's how he. I. Pop. Must have popped up on his Instagram or whatever. And then we just started talking, and I ended up, you know, liking him a lot. And, yeah, he just abruptly ended it just, like, last week. And it, like, it really hurt. Like, it devastated me. I feel, like.

[Nick Viall]

Sure.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And worse than when I left my marriage.

[Nick Viall]

Well, it's just apples and oranges. I mean, we can talk more about your situation, but I always like to say this, but if we were. If we were on this call and had had some time to work things through, and I just ran into you in the elevator, and you're like, oh, my God, Nick, I have this quick question. Why am I, you know, processing my situation worse than my divorce? And I'm like, all right, well, I got, like, two minutes. I feel pretty confident giving your answers to why. Because, you know, you. You again, I asked you. It's like you ended the divorce. You saw that through, and you saw it through. You did more than see it through. You were like. And when I look back, I think deep down, I knew I was probably. This marriage wasn't working a couple years ago, and then you kept trying, and you still fought, and you probably did a bunch of different things in those three years to see if they can make this work. And by the time you left, not only were you not even that sad, you were kind of relieved because deep down, you knew this wasn't for you. And the only thing that was really keeping you in that marriage was the commitment to each other. You're. For fear of what people might say about you, the fear of moving on, the messiness of a divorce, the fact that you guys share a child together, you know, all, like, understandable concerns, but, like, none of which was. I'm not sure how I feel about this person. Am I going to miss them? Am I going to be regretful to, like, end this marriage? And is. Is he the best thing that ever happened to me? Am I being selfish? Am I wondering if there's more out there for me? Am I. Am I chasing that? It was none of that, right? So, like, one. Once you finally had the courage to say, I think we should separate, that was probably a very liberating feeling. You not only did. Were you not sad, you were confident. You felt good about It. You were like, oh, thank God. It's like, you know, you were like, why didn't I do this sooner? The fear of doing it was much worse than the reality of doing it. And I had been in relationships where it was like. I mean, there was one relationship I ended where it was like the best day of my life when I dropped her off.

[Hannah]

Well, I did get congratulated quite a bit, actually.

[Nick Viall]

And it was just like a weight off my shoulders. And it was like, I'm free. You know, like, I kept saying that, actually. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Like, I'm like, I'm free. Like, I kept saying that to my friends. Like.

[Nick Viall]

And then you met this guy, and there's a lot of things you liked about him, and it was new and it was exciting, and I. I don't doubt that. He probably presented a lot of qualities that you didn't get in your past relationship, which made me. Made you really like him and really excited about the possibility. And then out of nowher ended it. So why are you processing that harder than the divorce is? Because this is like, you have a bunch of unknown answers. You have a. You were excited. You didn't have control over this situation. You didn't get to see this through. You feel like you don't have closure. So, I mean, it's apples and oranges. It's not because one was a situationship. You know, it's like you're. You're thinking, this was a marriage. This should be. This should be harder. This was a situation. This is barely. This is almost nothing. But why do I feel this way? You're not processing the loss of him, but you are processing. And probably what is still a little scary for you is the unknown of your future. All the times while you were still married to that guy, your ex husband. I'm sure at times you're like, well, what if I did leave? What would that look like? What will dating be like? I'm sure there was a little bit of excitement. There was also probably a lot of fears. I'm sure most people who listen to this show because they enjoy hearing everyone's stories who are currently in, like, help, happy relationships. And every time, and every time I'm like, man, the dating landscape sucks out there. It's brutal, man. Like, it's terrible. Everyone listening is like, oh, like, thank God I'm in a relationship. You're like, I don't know if I want to be in this relationship, but damn, dating, you know, it sounds scary out there. And then, wouldn't you know it, some guy Reached out.

[Hannah]

This is the situation I'm in.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Some guy reached out to you and hit you up, and you're like, oh, my God, this is easy. This is great. And then you met him, and you're

[Hannah]

like, it came right to me.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And, you know, and it was. It was great. And then he left. And so, yeah, there's probably a little bit of, like, the reality that moving on in the dating from a dating aspect might not be as easy, but more. More than that. It was probably just, like, the loss of the excitement and the possibility of the unknown.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And I think that's what I was gonna say, too. Like, I. I was just, like, so happy and so excited for the first time in a long time, too. And then it just, like, went away within, like, a couple hours. Like, it just. Out of nowhere, like, everything was normal one day, and then the next, he was just. Yeah, I'm taking a step back, like, out of nowhere. So, yeah, it just all went away. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You have to give yourself some grace in the sense that, like, even though you were ready to move on, you're still obviously healing from that divorce. You're still figuring out what this new life looks like for you. And he was probably a really great distraction from that. And now you're back into the reality of a newly divorced single mom.

[Hannah]

Actual. Like, this time, like, I feel like he did give me the push to stay away from my ex and not.

[Nick Viall]

Well, also, the part is, like, once you, like, left your ex and you had this feeling of, like, whoa, yeah, all right. I got nothing but optimism in front of me. You know, there's all these new possibilities and then. And then again, the realities. The reality of being single and the reality of dating out there. Yeah, it was smacked. Smacked you in the face. Now you're, you know, the. Your insecurities or ego or whatever. Is this, like, well, you know, like, well, here we are. This is going to be a grind. That's probably where all these feelings are coming from and why it hurts. It's. It's definitely not about this guy. How long do you hang out with him for?

[Hannah]

Like, two months.

[Rose]

Okay.

[Hannah]

But, yeah, embarrassing, really, how, like, much it hurt from, like, only, like, two months.

[Nick Viall]

Two months is a decent amount.

[Hannah]

We talked, like, every single day.

[Nick Viall]

Like, exactly. So you, you know, over two months, you can build a pretty meaningful, like, connection with someone. You know, you can certainly develop feelings. It doesn't mean you know everything about these people and doesn't mean, like, had you got married instead of him leaving, it would still Be a huge leap of faith. We're going to get married based off how we feel now. And we're going to hope that what we learn about each other over the next couple years doesn't change how we feel, which is a huge leap of faith. I think it's really just that. And I think maybe you just have to like. Again, I think it's really. You have to really give yourself some grace. This is about narratives in your head and not questioning yourself. Or it's just kind of accepting like that happened. That's a bummer. I definitely got excited. It was a really fun distraction. And it was a fun distraction that had some really exciting possibilities and now it doesn't anymore. It's so fun to like someone and think about the exciting possibilities. And so that was just ripped away from you. And now.

[Hannah]

Well, that's the thing too. Like the day before, he was talking about, you know, the future and all this stuff. And then all of a sudden he has family issues or something and he

[Nick Viall]

was trying things out. We do that.

[Hannah]

Well, I know he was like talking to other people too, because he told me. He just said that he wasn't talking to anybody else like he was talking to me. Basically.

[Nick Viall]

That's the why, I'm guessing, as to why you're feeling that. So the important thing, I think, is to try to not spend that much more energy on the why.

[Hannah]

That's the hard part.

[Nick Viall]

Sure. But once you know, now it says holding yourself accountable. If you are agreeing with my analysis, I guess, and if what I'm saying makes sense to you now, once we get off this call, if you start asking yourselves those why questions, why am I feeling this way over that? Making yourself feel a little dumb for having such strong feelings for this guy that you didn't even have for your ex husband. That's just you choosing to not think about it. And that's not you holding yourself accountable. And that is you using your free time or your mental energy to still enjoy the drama of missing him. And it keeps you preoccupied. It's something to do. You can definitely control your thoughts. And now that you know the why and the reason, you have to ex. Now you have to accept that. And yeah, well, things pop in your head, sure. But now you can go, wait, stop. Okay, I gotta stop. I gotta stop. I gotta stop. And not emotionally beat yourself up and give yourself a hard time and treat it like an apples to apples situation. It's not. And still be excited. Nothing's changed. Right. You still survived a tough marriage and it Took a lot of guts to leave that marriage. And you have no regrets about that, correct?

[Hannah]

No.

[Nick Viall]

Right?

[Hannah]

No, I don't. No. No.

[Nick Viall]

And that's a huge step. And this guy showing up who was a fun distraction doesn't change any of that.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And so you just have to remind yourself that you're still in a really good spot and everything you signed up for when you chose to leave that marriage is still on the table.

[Hannah]

No, that's true. Yeah, it's true. Like, nothing has changed, actually, so. Yeah, that actually makes me feel a lot better that. The way you just said that, so. Because I beat myself up quite a bit about that, about it ending, I guess, because I started to think, like, oh, it was me, or I did

[Nick Viall]

something wrong, or you weren't his person. It's fine. You know, you only knew him for

[Hannah]

two months, and I didn't really know him know him. Do you know what I mean?

[Nick Viall]

Like, I do know.

[Hannah]

Surface level him. Yeah. I knew fun him.

[Rose]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

It's the hard part with dating because we say things, we try things out we want to see, you know, and it's not. We try things out because we think we're using people. We don't really know how we feel, and we say it and we feel it in the moment, and then it's just like, we sit with what we said, and then we process it, and you realize, I don't know. Maybe I. I don't know. And so he. Yeah, he went through that exercise, but yes. Yeah, there's nothing you did, nothing did wrong. It's just not your guy. And you could sit there and go, oh, is it because I have a child and am I a single mom? Is it because I got divorced? Is it because I'm. I'm still not taking. Maybe, but again, kids too. I'm just saying whatever the. You know, But I'm saying that the things that we do, like, things that you're doing, questioning yourself, you're making it about you. You're making it about, like, what did I do wrong? And I'm just saying, I'm sure he has his reasons of why he didn't want to pursue it, but that just means that, like, eventually those reasons would have come up in the future. He's just not your guy. And instead of feeling rejected by him, you just have to, like, he's not my guy. That's also something you have to take into consideration. It was a very empowering moment for you to leave your marriage. Fuck, yeah. I did this shit. You know, it Even felt good. And then, like, you didn't even have a couple months before some guy's like, yeah, never mind. Yeah. Like, and someone took your power away from you a little bit, and so it's less to do with him. It's a lot for you to process in a short period of time.

[Hannah]

Like, it's like a completely different life, like, in just a couple months. Right.

[Nick Viall]

So, yeah, it would do you a lot of good to really just be proud of yourself. You made a very difficult decision. And to really be focused, be. Be excited about the possibilities because nothing's changed, like I said. Yeah, you have your child. I imagine you enjoy actually. Yeah. So you have your kids. I imagine you really enjoy them. I imagine they are important to you. Talking to a lot of women who are out there dating, who hope to have kids someday and haven't had the opportunity to do that. No matter what happens in your dating life going forward, you will always have your kids, you know, your friends.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You know, and so.

[Hannah]

And I do have great friends, so. And I'm my mom, so she's still around.

[Nick Viall]

So I look at it for what it was. A fun little rebound, A fun little moment. Must have been fun to just kiss someone for the first time, feeling new feelings for a new guy. It was fun. And it was. It's still fun. And you don't. You don't have to take anything away from that just because he left and hurt. Bruise your ego. You can still be like, that was a fun time. I needed that. All the important things I have in my life, I still have.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that's a really good way to look at it.

[Nick Viall]

Honestly, the reason you have had the guts to leave that marriage is because you looked around and you saw your children, you saw your friends, you saw your family, and you're like, I can lose this guy. And honestly, I still haven't lost all the important connections I have in my life. And you have all those. And you still have all those. So now you just have to, like, get back out there when you're ready. I would deprioritize dating a little bit. As much as you want to get out there, I would be open to dating. I would be excited about the possibility, but, like, I would be cautious about jumping on the apps. I'd be cautious about, like, asking your friends if they know any single guys. You know, things like that. I would be cautious about going out with your girlfriends and. And only prioritizing where are the hot men? You know, and things like that. I would really try to Be in the moment and just have some fun and really enjoy the company of your friends in ways that you weren't able to enjoy them while you were trying to like, make a marriage work and lean into the relationship with your kids and really try to just be grateful for what you have. And I really think that will really help reset all this kind of ugly feelings you have from the situationship and just.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And think of it as like, this was a great thing. This, this. I'm glad this happened.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think what came down to the way you said it bruised my ego. I think maybe that's what happened. A lot of it too.

[Nick Viall]

For sure.

[Hannah]

Um, because after he kind of. Because he told me over text, he was taking a step back, I, and this isn't like me, but I sent him. So embarrassing. I sent him like a paragraph explaining, like, you know, my feelings and then he read it and then never answered me again. And I'm just like, ooh, like, I shouldn't even, like, that's not like me. I never used. I would never have done that like before, but I was just more like, what the heck? Like, you were fine yesterday.

[Nick Viall]

Like, yeah, that's normal.

[Hannah]

You pursued me. You don't get to end it.

[Nick Viall]

We've all done that. Thank God there's that unsend option now.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I should have done that.

[Nick Viall]

Still can.

[Hannah]

Or just go back and like it.

[Nick Viall]

I'm glad you're able to laugh. I mean, you have to be able to laugh at this stuff. I mean, it's just, it shook you up a little bit and.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Yeah, it did.

[Nick Viall]

You gotta look at this as an exciting time in your life. The only memories I have of my past relationships are the bad times because of the, they're the times I survived. And they're. And it's so true. I, I, the only time I ever reminisce about past relationships, I just think of this text message you sent this guy. Yeah, you're already laughing now. That's a great sign. You know what I'm saying? But you're just like, I was so fucking stupid. And it's funny, like, why did I do that? And like, that's fun. I mean, I don't know. I think about that stuff from time to time. And I never reminisce about like some date that we had or some really romantic night or, or some fucking anniversary celebrated. No, I remember when I was down bad and feeling like, like life was gonna end and I, I didn't know how to move on. And in Ways that I just obsessed and made bad situations worse. And I laugh. I laugh at myself, and I laugh about the silliness of it all. But more importantly, most importantly, I'm just kind of grateful from what I learned of those, from those experiences and that I survived them. And as we get older, your divorce will be a really important moment in your life because you survived it. The loss of your father, obviously, that's a little different because you will always miss your father and you're never going to look back as a good time losing your father. But you, like you said, you survived that. And just so much anxiety is us worrying about the future. It's the unknown. It's the unknown of bad things are going to happen, and I don't know if I'm going to get through them. Will I be able to pay my bills in six months? Things are going really great now. What if I lose it all? How will I respond? Those are all the things that makes us anxious. That's why I'm generally an anxious guy, because I'm always ruminating and I'm always like, I have this. My therapist tells me I have embalming issues. My childhood, I, you know, I have a scarcity mindset because we grew up, you know, with a lot of money and things like that. So now that I'm in a position where I've accomplished a lot of my dreams and I have financial security, I'm not less anxious. I'm more anxious. You know, I'm not. I'm like, oh, you could lose it

[Hannah]

or it could just disappear.

[Nick Viall]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Not that that's going to happen, obviously, but. But that's your fear.

[Nick Viall]

Exactly. So, yeah, what helps me is knowing what I've survived and knowing that I don't know what the future will hold, but I know that I will survive it. I will get through it. I don't know how, but once you do, you rarely regret those things, because then you realize. Because then you meet people and experiences happen. Even when it comes down to, like, business opportunities. I've had business opportunities that had substantial dollar signs attached to them that didn't come through. Right. And then when you think. When you're talking, you know, talking to my manager, talking to my team, my agent, and, you know, like, oh, this is an opportunity. There's this dollar sign attached to it, and you start, like, you start assuming it's already a done deal, and then that doesn't come through for whatever reason, and you're like, I just lost out an X number of dollars. Oh, fuck you. Know, that sucks. And then, wouldn't you know it, two months later, something else comes along. It's a better opportunity. It's more money. One what it doesn't happen if the other does. It's just having that awareness without having to overthink it that allows us to work through the disappointing times and allows us to not be anxious enough. And that's where the, you know, being more mature and more emotionally regulated is to be able to process these feelings on our own or with a therapist. For me, it took me months to process this shit. Now I can do it in an afternoon with a phone call with my therapist or my wife. It's like, okay, yeah, I do feel this. But here's the why. I don't need to understand it. No matter what, we'll work through it. And just having that confidence that you will work through it will get you there. So.

[Hannah]

Well, I actually just started therapy yesterday.

[Nick Viall]

Congratulations.

[Hannah]

Yeah, thank you. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

So I, I, I, I challenge you to not use your time in therapy to re litigate the past just for the sake of it. You know, things you've already worked through in process, try not to go back and yeah, ruminate over them.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Therapy is a funny thing because we can be, we can over therapize and depending on who your therapist is, you know, I've, some therapists will just keep spinning that wheel. Some pair, some therapists will call it out and be like, maybe let's move forward, you know, stuff like that. But at the end of the day, it's going to come down to you. When you reach a milestone, like an emotional milestone, I think it's important that you kind of recognize it and hold yourself accountable and not backtrack. The challenge part is like all this is just internalizing. It's all our inner monologue, it's all our thoughts. So it really is important for you to recognize. All right, I had this conversation. I got some good advice or this was helpful for me. Try not to like whether it's with your therapist or in your own head. Sure, feelings will come up a week from now, but a lot of people will just, you know, for the sake of doing it, because it's something to do, they'll choose to ignore all the progress they made. The advice they got from a therapist or some podcast guy, you know, drinks with the girls and you will like, because it's fun, tell that story again. But I'm guilty of that. That gets you emotionally stuck. Yeah, we're the main characters around life. We like to re watch Good movies. Right. And our favorite movie is our own life, you know, and so we like lately. But it's still. You're still entertained by it, and it's a thing you enjoy talking about the most. Yeah, it's re watching your favorite movie even though that favorite movie has a. Has a scene in it that really makes you sad, but you watch it every time. And every time you watch it, you cry. And you know you're gonna cry, you know you're gonna feel sad, but you still rewatch it every time because it's the drama of it all. And it's. And in that movie, you know that in the third act, they'll get better. It's just a very dangerous game we play with our own lives when we commiserate and rem and ruminate with our friends or with ourselves when we're alone at home taking a bath or whatever. It's a dangerous game if we want to make progress emotionally and move on.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Does that make sense?

[Hannah]

No. That's, like, good advice. I've never been given that advice before. Like, just don't keep talking about the same thing over and over, especially the situationship guy. I feel.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Put that to bed.

[Hannah]

Yeah, Yeah, I need to do that. I feel like the divorce is a little bit different. There's a lot of layers to that one. But, yeah, and I'm still going through it and all that. Like. And I got to keep that man in my life. Like, yeah, he can't just go away. Can't forget about that one.

[Nick Viall]

But exactly.

[Hannah]

Yeah, but, yeah, but no, that's good advice.

[Nick Viall]

Help yourself. And you can help yourself.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

At least be mindful that, you know, when you do give in to that weakness or temptation, don't do the thing that so many of us do where we are like, I just don't know why I feel so bad about, you know. You know, I'm having a bad day. It's like. Well, because you. Because you. You've rewatched this scene 50 times, and unlike the movie that we watch, that's our favorite movie that we. Can we cry over the scene. You don't know how your life. You don't. You haven't seen the end of your movie, so you're stuck replaying the sad scene, waiting for an answer, waiting for that other accent to move forward. So just be careful about playing that dangerous game.

[Hannah]

No, yeah, no, I will. Yeah. I like that advice.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. This is helpful.

[Hannah]

It really was. Honestly, I appreciate it so much.

[Nick Viall]

All right, well, enjoy your friends. Enjoy your kids. Enjoy your family and enjoy the journey of dating.

[Hannah]

Enjoy your twins and congratulations.

[Nick Viall]

Thank you. Yeah, we're, we're excited. We're a little. We're not scared. But it's kind of like

[Hannah]

my nephews are twins. My brother's been there.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's enjoyed it.

[Hannah]

Yeah. They're going to be 17 soon, but I'm jealous. I'd love to have twins. I think that's amazing.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, it'll be great, I think. Yeah, we're, we have a lot going on this year and I think it's a challenge for all busy parents and working parents who.

[Hannah]

Absolutely.

[Nick Viall]

We all want to have a cake and eat it too, so we'll have to figure that out. But I appreciate you saying that.

[Hannah]

Yeah, you're welcome. You've got some good things coming, so that's good.

[Nick Viall]

All right. I appreciate you.

[Hannah]

All right.

[Nick Viall]

All right. Take care.

[Hannah]

Appreciate you. Okay, you too.

[Nick Viall]

Bye. Bye.

[Natalie]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Nicole]

Doing great. How about you?

[Nick Viall]

Good. What's your name?

[Nicole]

My name is Nicole. I'm 30 years old. Am I wrong for dating someone that my ex best friend went out on two dates with three years ago even though she's about to get married?

[Nick Viall]

Does she know about it?

[Nicole]

And let me just kind of preface by saying that she had. When we had a falling out, which was last year, this was our falling out happened before I started dating him. But I had met her at the same time that she had first hung out with him because we all went out for drinks and this was like three years ago. And then they went out on two dates and then he moved about a month into them hanging out. And so she never, like, he. He always set the preface that. That, like, he wasn't interested in dating at that time.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, so is this someone you're currently friends with?

[Nicole]

No, not anymore. Not since October. So her and I hadn't spoken for about, like three months after we had a falling out in October. And then she had reached out to me in January because he had came down to visit me because he doesn't live here. We do long distance. But he had came down to visit me for my birthday weekend, and one of our mutual friends had posted a picture with him in it. So she saw that and screenshotted it and sent it to me. And she was like, are you really, like, are you dating so? And so I said yes. And I told her, like, I mean, it was very random how it all happened, you know, when I met him three years ago, I hadn't spoken to him until December, which is when he had reached out to me because he had saw that I was in Chicago, which is where he lives, and I was there for a friend's birthday, and he saw, like, my stories, and so he reached out and, like, wanted to see if I wanted to meet up and grab a drink. And that's pretty much how it all started from there. So it wasn't like a planned thing where I went out, went out after him.

[Nick Viall]

Just out of curiosity, why do you care?

[Nicole]

I would say I care because, I mean, this friend I was friends with for, I mean, close to 15 years.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Nicole]

The falling out was kind of like, I was honestly kind of surprised by the whole reaction of the falling out that we had. I wasn't Expecting it to kind of finalize our friendship. So I think that that was a little bit hurtful, but I think just in the way, when she had reached out to me about this guy after I said that I was, you know, I was dating him, and that I didn't really see that it would be an issue considering her and I hadn't spoken in, like, three months, and we're no longer friends, and, you know, they only went out on two dates, and she. I just. She really came after, like, my character. So I think. I guess I just want, like, an outsider's perspective as to if she's kind of justified in the way that she was feeling about the situation.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. Why did you guys have a falling out? So just to recap, this is a friend, this girlfriend of yours. You've been friends with her for 15 years. Half. Your half since high school.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. So close friend, lifelong friend. And up until very recently, yeah, you guys were friends. And then in October, what, less than half a year ago, give or take.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You guys had a falling out where you're no longer friends.

[Nicole]

Yep.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, what happened?

[Nicole]

So she got engaged to in August, and she had planned a bridesmaid's dinner in October to ask all of the girls that were gonna be in her wedding, you know, to be her bridesmaid and ask them in person. So I had flew because I no longer live in that state anymore, so I had flew back for that. And prior to that bridesmaid's dinner, after she had gotten engaged, she had mentioned about, like, she wanted me to be her maid of honor. Well, we hadn't spoken about that. I didn't feel like it was necessary to reconfirm my title after she had said that, and so went to the bridesmaid center. I was also going through, like, a pretty, you know, kind of brutal breakup, but I still wanted to show up for her. And I was with her that whole day of the bridesmaids dinner, helping her set up and, like, run errands. And then fast forward to the dinner. We all open up our, like, bridesmaids boxes that she gave us. And the girl across from me had a card that said maid of honor. And it just kind of threw me off because I. Like, my. When I opened up my card, mine said bridesmaid. And so it just was. It just caught me off guard, considering, like, we had been together all day. And I thought that if, you know, I didn't care that, like, the titles, like, it wasn't about titles. It was just more so that my Friend didn't bring that up to me before the dinner. So.

[Nick Viall]

So she didn't ask you to be a bride. You assumed that you were a maid of honor or you thought she. She asked you to be a Brian she had met.

[Nicole]

She had said it to me after she had gotten engaged. Like, we had, like, that weekend after she had gotten engaged, she, like, told me that she wanted me to be her maid of honor and her cousin to be matron of honor. And so I just had, like, gone into it, you know, assuming that after she had told me that we hadn't had a conversation about it since, you know, she got proposed to in August. So I went into the bridesmaids dinner thinking that I was going to be, like, a maid of honor. And like, I said, I don't care. It was more so that, like, I felt blindsided in the moment. So.

[Nick Viall]

So then what. What happened?

[Nicole]

You know, I got up from the table, but this was, like, after 10 minutes, like, I tried to, like, you know, not make it a big deal or anything. So I walked into, like, another room. One of her other friends came in there and had asked if I was okay. And I just said I felt, like, hurt and blindsided in the moment. And then I had a conversation with my friend, like, completely away from everyone else, and she started getting, like, super defensive. And she was just like, I don't know why you're trying to make this day about you. And she's like, you know, I. I don't know. She basically just said that, like, she was only going to have her cousin as, like, a matron of honor and that things had changed. And the girl that actually got the maid of honor card shouldn't have gotten it, I guess. She said it was, like, an accident. It was just a weird thing. And I just told her, like, you know, I felt hurt and blindsided, and then I felt kind of just uncomfortable being there. And so she was just like, well, if you want to leave, you can leave. And then we went downstairs and. And then she announced the whole table that she was like, so Nicole wants to leave because she doesn't understand the difference between titles and. Yeah, just, you know, brought that up.

[Nick Viall]

She calls you out and then.

[Nicole]

Yes. Yeah. And, like, I. I was just really honestly shocked by her reaction. And the next day when she had reached out, like, I'd apologize because I understand that, like, the timing wasn't the best to maybe confront that situation, but I don't think my, like, behavior, in the way that I reacted was, like, extreme. Like, I did not make it, you know, a public thing in front of everyone else. Yeah, I'd step.

[Nick Viall]

Well, what you're. What you're telling me. And again, there's always two sides every story. And this happened a while back. But, yes, from what you're telling me, it sounds fairly reasonable. This wasn't an actual. This wasn't the actual wedding. So there's that. Yeah, yeah, certainly this is her engagement and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, yeah, you know, she told you one thing. As your friend. She ended up changing her mind. She's in. And she's allowed to do that, but she did it in a way that caught you off guard because she didn't communicate it to you. And while it is her day, this dinner, you are allowed to be caught off guard and you are allowed to have hurt feelings. Now, it sounds like, looking back, did you handle it perfectly? Maybe not. I don't know. But it doesn't sound like, from what you describe, that it was outrageous. What is outrageous is that she called you out the way she did in front of your friends for you stepping aside and saying, hey, I'm a little hurt. You. I just. I guess I thought I was going to be your maid of honor. And. Yeah, you know. Yeah, I'm disappointed. Maybe. Maybe I am making this about me, but I. You know, if nothing else, it's. My friendship means a lot to you, and I was honored that you're gonna. So, yeah, sorry about the timing, but, yeah, my feelings are hurt.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And then, you know, then you guys got into the weeds of, you know, you're hurt. You wanted some support from her or some just empathy or whatever it was. You got the opposite. You got, like, take it or leave it. And by the way, you can go. You didn't get what you wanted. She didn't get what she wanted. And then she chose to, like, triple dot and call you out, which, you know, sounds crazy if that's how it went down.

[Nicole]

Yeah, it was. And, like. And I will say, the only thing that I do kind of regret saying is when I was leaving, one of the girls came up to me and was like, you know, just kind of, like, consoling me. She, like, felt bad after my friend had just kind of, like, announced that to the table, and I was like, you know, I just want to go to a place that has better vibes. So that wasn't probably the appropriate thing to say, but, like, I mean, yeah, I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

I feel like, again, you're.

[Nicole]

When I was communicating my feelings to my friend, I Never had once said, like, name called her or was, like, rude or mean to her. I just kept it, like, explaining that I felt hurt and blindsided and that I wish she would have had a conversation with me beforehand, just. And she felt that, I guess it was just completely out of line to bring it up on her day, which the whole purpose of the dinner was. She even announced at the dinner, before the dinner started, that this is for the. Her bridesmaids. That's the reason she's having this, to, like, ask them officially in person. So I'm like, I get it. But I mean, I was just shocked, like, by her reaction.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Considering how long we've been friends. And, like, she, like, really knows my character. Even though, like, I had moved seven years ago, like, we still remained really close friends. And, like.

[Nick Viall]

Can I ask you a question? When you, like, you know, you've been friends with this person for 15 years, the story you're telling me sounds a little crazy, if I'm being honest.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And my question to you is, is this behavior about this one night, is that out of pocket for her? Is it, like, is she. Did she turn into a bridezilla? Or when you reflect back on your friendship with her, did she usually expect more than she was willing to give?

[Nicole]

Yeah, I. I would say that that's the case. I do think that she sometimes would expect more than she's willing to give. And she tends to look at things a lot from her perspective, and I would say she's definitely more of a reactional person. So her reaction, I can't say I'm surprised by it, but I think I was surprised by it because her and I have never really had, you know, like, a confrontation like that, because I think my personality is kind of, like, opposite to that. So I've always. I've seen her have tiffs with other friends, but, like, my personality has never really clashed with hers until. Until that moment.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Well, I think that's kind of important for you to consider.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

So. And then just to put a bow on the story, you guys just stopped being friends after that situation.

[Nicole]

Yeah. She had reached out the next day, basically sent me, like, novels of, like, you know, that she was upset that I tried to make the day about me and that she wishes I would have, like, brought that up on a different day, which I did take accountability for and apologize. But, yeah, we never really spoke after that. After that exchange that. That very next day.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, yeah, I would. I'm glad you took accountability. And, yes, you could have.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You Certainly could have waited till another time to express your frustration, but all you did was step aside. And then she came and chased you. And then she, yeah, she made her day about you by announcing it to the table.

[Nicole]

Yeah. Which I was like mortified about because, like, I didn't, it wasn't something that I wanted everyone to know. I wanted to just have a conversation with my friend and essentially just be like, hey, I, I hate that you're feeling this way. Like, I do want to talk to you about this, but maybe let's talk about it tomorrow. You would have been totally fine. But like the, she was just being very defensive and then just saying, like, you know, this day, like, I don't know why you're trying to make this day about you. So. But yeah, fast forward, you know, then I start dating this guy. And so then she, she comes at me pretty strong after I said yes. I, like, I am dating him. And she's like, there's all these people in the world and out of like everyone you choose to, to date someone that I have hooked up with and she's like, that's just desperate to me. And I was like, first of all, I never even reached out to him. Like, he reached out to me and we have not spoken since the day that I met him with you. Like, it wasn't a planned thing. I think the thing that, well, and then I, I then did say to her, you know, I'm not sure why this concerns you so much when you're about to get married this year. I was like, I, I don't feel like you should be upset about somebody that you went on two dates with three years ago.

[Nick Viall]

I'm sure her response was something like, I'm not upset about him, I'm upset about you.

[Nicole]

Something like that. Yes. Yeah. Like, I guess she was like, you know, like, if I, if the roles were reversed, I would have, like. But I was like, we weren't friends.

[Nick Viall]

Like, we haven't spoken.

[Nicole]

I feel like I'm extremely respectful of my friends in that aspect. And if her and I were on speaking terms and friends, I would have messaged her and said that he had reached out to me because that's this sort of friendship that we had.

[Nick Viall]

And it just, again, just to clarify, after she sent you the long ass text the night day, after this whole shit show dinner, how did you come to the decision that you guys were not on speaking terms? Like, was that, like, did you guys

[Nicole]

agree to that based on the conversation? Yeah, it was like, she's a friend that I feel like has a lot of opinions on things, and she did not like the last guy that I dated, and rightfully so. Like, I mean, you know, he definitely didn't treat me well.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Nicole]

But it wasn't like I ever involved her or brought him around. And, you know, she just. She. I feel like she always just kind of had an opinion. And so that week when I was visiting for the bridesmaid center, because that's where my ex at the time lived, I had saw him, and she felt some type of way about that. So kind of leading before the bridesmaids dinner, she already kind of was, like, not in a weird spot with me, but I think she, like, there was already kind of a little bit leading up to that where she maybe felt some type of way about me. And so then.

[Nick Viall]

And then, to be clear, because you saw your ex or boyfriend or whatever, and she didn't approve of this relationship. And.

[Nicole]

Yeah, and I hadn't seen him. We. Him and I broke up in September because we were doing long distance. I hadn't seen him until I went up there for the bridesmaids dinner in October.

[Nick Viall]

You're not the first person to have a hard time getting over a toxic relationship. And you're not the first person. Like, I mean, I don't know. Like, we. We've all been there. We all have friends who have been there. Certainly when we see our friends make bad decisions, we want to challenge them and encourage them to not make those decisions. But when they do make those decisions, it's weird for them to make. As your friend would put it, make it about her. Like, why would this affect her? Like, she shouldn't feel a certain way about you. I mean, maybe sadness, maybe some disappointment. Maybe it requires some words of encouragement or some questions toward. In your direction. But, like, you're describing that she. She was personally affected by your decision to see your ex. Or at least that's how.

[Nicole]

She was a very controlling person. Like, yeah, even so much so. Like, this is gonna sound crazy to say, but, like, I remember one time her fiance ordered a milkshake and she got mad at him for ordering a large. Like, just weird stuff. Like, she's very. Like, she was. She's just very controlling. And so, like, I mean, I think. I think I knew that our friendship. I had felt that as, like, we've gotten older, that she maybe doesn't kind of align with maybe some of the same outlooks that I have in life and kind of.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Approaching things and, like, kind of treating people. So I did feel Like a little bit of a distance with her in, in that aspect. But I mean, we had been friends for so long and like, I think I tried to give her grace. So I think that that's why like in that moment, the way that she reacted at the bridesmaid center, I was just caught off guard by it because I'm definitely one to understand if like, if someone has kind of a pattern of behavior. I do understand, understand that you have to like distance yourself, you know, if they're not learning from that. But like that was kind of just a one off thing, so.

[Nick Viall]

Sounds like she sucks, to be honest.

[Nicole]

Yeah, she's. I mean, I, I wanted to get like your perspective is like, I guess just like a male and just like an outside perspective because even my friends that know both of us have kind of validated kind of the way that I feel about it. But I think it's always good to get like an outsider's perspective.

[Nick Viall]

But your, your, your mutual friends don't think you're crazy.

[Nicole]

No.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, well, that's a good. I mean, it does matter. I mean, it is important what they think, even when you want to get an outsider. Yeah, but they, they know both of you, they know the situation. I'm not, I'm not not believing your version of the story, but I am only hearing your version of the story.

[Nicole]

Yeah, no, I get that.

[Nick Viall]

But listen, like, she sounds like a really selfish person and you know, and the fact that your friendship started in high school and is, you know.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

A lot of those friendships are based off of like history. Right. And to your point, like sometimes we don't evaluate friendships in real time about how friends show up for us and things like that. Like our friends, some sometimes almost like family.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Like those lifelong friends get grandfathered in. It's just like you're my family because you're my family. Not because we have a bond or like a lot in common or we get along. I just like you're my family. Family, you know, and sometimes that's how like long term friends are. Right. As you reflect back, as you said, this is someone who, when you think about it, has had a lot of falling outs with other friends, maybe not you, because as you've said, you've never really been in conflict with her. And maybe that's partly because like, you're a more passive personality and not that confrontational where she is.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And so consciously, subconsciously, you've just like, you've avoided confrontation with her. So despite her personality and yours, it's never stopped you guys from being friends and friendly. And the fact that you did move away from her probably actually extended your friendship in a way because it, like, stopped you from having some of these interactions on a personal level in adult life that might reveal that you guys really honestly don't have a lot in common or that you're. You're kind of in conflict with your personalities, that your values don't align when it comes to, like, what you expect of friendships. It probably was this, again, like, allowed you guys to really lean into the history of the friendship rather than the friendship itself, right? So then she gets engaged, right? She gets engaged.

[Nicole]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Nick Viall]

She. She throws this out there. It meant a lot to you. She. She called an audible. She changed her mind. And because it's, you know, the selfish person, right, who is now engaged, it's like, that's. That's what the bridezilla comes from, you know? Like, I don't think everyone turns in a bridezilla. I think people who, like, are you really used to getting their way and demanding of other people and are used to demanding of their friends now they feel like they have this, like, hall pass to really be obnoxious and to really be a. To people. Because it's like, this is literally about me. It's my wedding, you know? And so now she's, like, hopped up on. On power of. Of. Of this, and she does this crazy thing. Calling you out that way is such a cruel, mean girl thing. It was so cruel. And all you did was you had hurt feelings. You were allowed to have them, and did, like. Did you handle it the best way? Honestly, I don't. Maybe. Honestly, I don't think stepping aside and having a moment and expressing your sad. She's the one who came up to you and said, what's wrong? She made her day about you.

[Nicole]

I did. I did say I wanted to talk to her.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Nicole]

Her friend, one of the friends, like, did pull me or when I went up and, like, went in the other room to, like, get food, she had came up to me after.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, so maybe. Maybe you couldn't have done that. All right, so fine. You know, that's your. That's your big sin.

[Nicole]

Do it away. Where it was, like, I did it, like, discreet, so. Because I didn't want to make it a thing of the table.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Like, so again.

[Nicole]

But I do get that, like, pulling her aside because she is kind of like the, you know, the main person of focus that night. Like, I do think that people are gonna notice she's gone for A little bit.

[Nick Viall]

I'm glad you're willing to consider the role you played in this, but don't you think it's a really. Don't you think it. Almost. As we talk about it out loud, it doesn' sound a little ridiculous that you're kind of mentally jumping through so many hoops of like, well, I could have done this. Like, I mean, it wasn't like, again, this wasn't even her goddamn wedding. It. This wasn't like her bachelorette party. This was a dinner to. It was like a dinner for a dinner for, like, a wedding. It was like, again, it's. Who gives a fuck? Yeah, she did. But, like, whatever. This is not. Yeah, it's not that big of a deal.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And I think I've tended, like you said, I have been a little bit more passive of a friend with her because I just think she just has such, like, an intense personality, clearly. But I feel like I somehow am able to handle those types of people. Well. I don't really get, like, too faced by it. I think I just try to kind of, like, I don't know, not keep a distance. But I just don't get myself, like, involved in some of that. But I definitely. I definitely think that, yeah, it was just. It was a really weird situation. Just how she. How she acted and then even what she said afterwards, like, the next day, basically saying, like, the audacity that I had to. To try and make that day about me, which, yeah, she knows me really well. And, like, we had some mutual friends that were there at the bridesmaids dinner, too, and they know that I'm not somebody that ever likes to be the center of attention.

[Nick Viall]

Well, listen, the most selfish people in the world are the ones who are guilty of accusing other people of being selfish, right? Like, yeah, they're the ones who say things like, the audacity of other people, the audacity of you to not make. Make her the center of attention. She is someone who likes to be the center of attention. So much so that she was willing to call you out at dinner to be the literal sense of center of attention. Can I have everyone's attention? My friend here, she sucks. This friend? Yeah. You go on a date with this guy, you have a falling out with this friend, as you know. And if you've, like, you've kind of clearly have played it out in your head, whatever, he reached out to you and like, yeah, if there was a world where you guys were still close, you probably would have reached out to her and said, hey, you Know Mark, I just got this random DM from Mark and I don't know, I'm single. He's like, would you care if I said yes? And you know, and again, a lot of, you know, when it comes to friends.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Being cool with that kind of 50, 50 some people are like, I don't know, I don't care.

[Nicole]

It's funny too because like basically how she met him was three or so years ago. She was at her cousin's wedding and her cousin's sister in law had brought him as a date to the wedding. And so he works in, in healthcare. I'll just, I'll say that. And so she had, she had asked his op. Something that she had a concern about and so she'd asked for his number. Well after she was dating someone at the time at, you know, who she brought to the wedding. Well, about a few months later she had asked, you know, my now boyfriend, you know, reached out to him and was like, like, hey, how have you been? And then that's when, you know, the first time that they had hung out was when we all like went out for drinks. So essentially like not even her relationship, but like things started off with them because she like her cousin's sister in law, who she's also like friends with, brought this guy, like brought my boyfriend.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

To the wedding as a date.

[Nick Viall]

So I mean, listen, I, I guess there and the reason why I asked for all this backstory on this friend because it seems like that's really the heart of, of why you're having a hard time with this. And she called you out and, and she said some hurtful things about your character and you're right, there's this kind of like, you know, friend code, girl code, whatever. But like there's a lot of gray area here and you're struggling with it because again, like you probably still even haven't processed the loss of this.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Long term friendship and, and maybe, maybe it's well overdue. And it doesn't sound like she's the type of friend you would really should mourn all that much. But like it's still going to affect you. And it was like something you really didn't get closure from. Yeah, it was abrupt. And then this kind of coincidence happened that some guy she casually dated a long time ago for a brief period of time showed up in your life and she used that as a way to like honestly reach out to you again. Honestly, she, I mean, someone like her is probably pissed that you haven't like begged for forgiveness and, and, and begged to be a part of her life. And the fact that you kind of like, okay, well, I guess we're not as close as I thought, and you kind of distance yourself was not something she wanted or expected.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And that was a way of you standing, standing up for yourself and then finding out that you started dating this guy was a way back in, honestly, to keep, you know, and then instead of this directly facing the real drama between the two of you, which is the friendship, she used this situation. Right. And yeah, it's not going to come from a place of objectivity. And she's certainly not going to like, look at her look in the mirror and ask, like, herself what the parallels between how she met that guy and how you met that guy and whether she's even in a place to give a shit. She's conveniently telling herself that, like, you're, you're kind of friend. I mean, she, she called you as a friend. You know, you haven't spoken with this person in months. You had a falling out with you, but she called you up acting like you guys were like, had a sleepover two nights ago. And, and during that sleepover, you completely lied to her about some guy that you're dating that she used to date. Like, that's the, that's the energy she's bringing. And it hurts because I almost like,

[Nicole]

wanted to say to her, like, what do you expect me to do? Like, reach out to you when I start dating him? Even though we weren't on speaking terms like that, you know, I mean, that's just not gonna happen. It wasn't like, she also. So the month before, she had reached out to me about him when she saw the picture that my mutual friend posted of us. Like, I had wished her a happy birthday and she had said that I probably just wished her a happy birthday just because to soften the blow when this came out that him and I are dating, I'm just like, not everything is about, not everything is about you. Like, I, I didn't say that to her. Like, I kept it honestly very. Because I, I just feel like I don't want to engage in crazy behavior. Like, I just feel like there's some people that are. She's always has to kind of have like the final word or the final thing to say. And so I, I just, I, I really don't like, like engaging with people when people act like that because I just know it's not gonna, like the conversation's not gonna really go anywhere. And, and so she did you know, kind of have her last word. And like, she said, you know, some pretty, like, mean things, like saying that him and I can just live in whatever delusion and that, like, I mean, it just was like it honestly.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, that sounds. That sounds a little delusional on her part to be speaking with such passion about a guy when she's engaged. Which is funny since that was how you. Why you guys had a falling out, was sitting around her engagement. But listen, my guess is from your standpoint, just a guess that you're. You're having a hard time processing this because there's a part of you that realizes sounds like you're happy so far early in this relationship with this guy. And that's great. And there's a part of you that's you. There's a. Now that she knows and now that you know that she's upset about it, there's a part of you that's probably worried that this is really going to solidify the end of this friendship.

[Nicole]

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And I think it just more so like the character attacking because, like, she basically.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, but like, that's not. I can't. But after talking this through with you.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You know what your intentions were when this all happened, when he reached out, however he reached out. You know, whether you did something shady or not or, or, or this was more of a serendipitous situation where, like, there was some kind of weirdness to it because of the history. But, like, like, you didn't do anything wrong. Like, that's pretty black and white and you know that answer. And then you also know this, this person who reached out and attacked your character is someone who, like, has a history of playing dirty and being mean when she doesn't get her way.

[Nicole]

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Nick Viall]

And so you just have to, like, process that that way. Again, like, you're upset about. Be upset you lost a friend. That's sad.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

But you're giving her too much power to actually listen to some of her criticism when deep down, you know, her criticism is a little delusional and a little out of pocket and, and coming not coming from a place of objectivity, but anger and resentment and frustration on her part. And, you know you're not doing anything wrong. You know, you would have moved a little bit differently had you been friends. But again, like, I don't know, like, I don't know how this relationship's going to. Sounds like pretty well so far. Like, how long you been dating them? You see a lot of potential here.

[Hannah]

We.

[Nicole]

Yeah, we've been dating since like beginning of December.

[Rose]

So.

[Nicole]

Yeah, it's been a few months now. It is long distance.

[Nick Viall]

But if it ends, if you, if you get a call from some random girl being like, he's cheating on you with me and you have a very devastating breakup.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

That wouldn't change how you feel about this friend, correct?

[Nicole]

No, it wouldn't. I mean, the only thing I will say she did try to say too when she'd reached out about seeing the picture, is that she was basically just saying like, you know, I would just be careful if I were you. Like he, he love bombed me.

[Nick Viall]

And like, so it sounds like he also. He sounds like he ended that fling.

[Rose]

He.

[Nicole]

But I, I know, like he just never saw, he knew he was never going to date her and he even said that he was relocating for a job.

[Nick Viall]

Whatever. I'm just saying it sounds like if she had it her way, she would have kept hanging out with him. And he stopped calling.

[Nicole]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, there's this, there's so many. And love bombing.

[Nicole]

I mean, like, I know.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. People misuse that word so much. Yeah. I don't know, maybe. Maybe he got excited for a brief period of time. But to your point, it sounds like he was like, hey, like I'm not looking for a girlfriend anytime soon. And, and, and, but I really like you, you know, and who knows? But listen, I, it doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong. She has given you every reason to accept that this friendship isn't, it doesn't have a long term future.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And I wouldn't expect her to make some meaningful changes. And this was a friend that like, it served its purpose, as many friendships do early, early in life and why we're friends with people when we're 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, and early in life are, it's very different than why we're friends with people in adult life. Most of us, as we get older, we get more selective about who we are friends with. And, and those circles are smaller, but they are more meaningful for someone who, who claims that they don't want to have other people's drama on their, in their moments. She didn't try to diffuse the situation. She made it more dramatic. And then she, you know, the next day she made more accusations. For what? Like, because you, you, you, you were sad that you wanted to talk at dinner. Were you hysterical? Like, were you screaming? Were you crying?

[Nicole]

No. No. I think maybe when I was talking to her, like I had teared up a bit, but it wasn't in, like, a way that was like, oh, my God.

[Nick Viall]

So you were clearly sad and maybe a little upset.

[Nicole]

Yeah, I just kept saying, I. I just feel hurt. Like, I just feel blindsided. And I was like, it just is.

[Nick Viall]

And a reasonable person could have been like, listen, Nicole, I'm honestly really sad. You know, can we talk about this later? I don't mean to discount your feelings, but I do want to enjoy this dinner. Your friendship means a lot to me, and I do want to handle it, but I don't want to disrupt this whole dinner. But you have a right to be confused. I'm sorry. We can talk about it later. And she could have just been direct with you, that she still wanted to enjoy this dinner, and she didn't have to be a total mean girl about it. She chose to, like, get in an argument with you, tell you can leave, call you out at dinner, and then just, you know, the next day just come at you in an aggressive way without ever just thinking, you know, of course, why wouldn't someone who, like, I told one thing and did another might be a little upset, and thank God they're upset because, like, she also. If you didn't care, she'd probably be like, why are. You know, why do you not care? You know, I mean, exactly.

[Nicole]

And. And I think just. Yeah, the way that it went down and then the fact that she said that it was like, that was a misunderstanding. That girl wasn't supposed to get that maid of honor card. There was only supposed to be a matron of honor, which is her cousin. And I was like, all that. I, like, I'm, like, I could care less whether I'm a bridesmaid or a maid of honor. It was more. So I just felt blindsided in the moment.

[Nick Viall]

Well, yeah. Then it's like, did you change your mind? Did I do something wrong? Did I. You know?

[Nicole]

Yeah. Like, she kept going back to, like, me feeling that I was so upset that, like, I no longer am being considered as maid of honor, which, like, I don't care. It's her wedding, and who she decides to have in it is, like, what if I would I been maybe a little bit blindsided if I wasn't even a bridesmaid in her wedding, considering, like, the level of friendship that we had. Yes. But, like, for maid of honor, like, I. I just didn't expect any title. And I. And I think that's what was hard, is because I feel like I kind of. I gave her grace and Accepted her through kind of pretty like crazy times in her life of where she's kind of like, act acted really out of pocket. And I've kind of stood up for her to other friends because some people have like, questioned like, like, like, what are you still doing being friends with her? So I think that in itself too, I think I, I definitely have my answer there. I think it just is, you know, a bummer whenever a friendship like that happens. But yeah, I wanted to just get your perspective because I listened to, you know, your podcast and I appreciate the advice that you give and just wanted to kind of like an outsider's opinion to see if it truly, if I truly was like crossing a line with dating this guy or whether this is just kind of a personality thing when it comes to her.

[Nick Viall]

I think it's definitely the latter. And I think she has a little bit of a bruised ego. I think it's all kind of convoluted for her, like why she really reached out or what her intentions are. But she clearly prioritizes her feelings above anyone else's. And it sounds like as we reflect back on your friendship with her and what you know about her, that is not new information. That is just something you've. This is the first time you've really been impacted by her self centeredness and now you know what it feels like to, to like, that other people have experienced. So the fact that you are willing to even ask the question, you know, could I be doing something differently, that I do something wrong, Like, I think demonstrates that you, you know, I'm sure you've been selfish before, but you have the ability to like, consider other people's feelings. And like you, you do prioritize your friendships to the point where you make considerations. At this point, you need to accept that you're not doing anything wrong because you've gotten to the point where even your friends have been like, girl, you're like, you're cool. And you're like, yeah, but like, are you sure? Because like, she called me a bitch and she says, I'm. Now you're asking me and I'm giving you the green light. So I think you just need to be comfortable with knowing that, like, you didn't do anything wrong and you just have to say goodbye to this friendship and, you know, stand up for yourself. She reaches out. You know, you just be like, honestly, what is your problem? Like, you know, I'm really sad that we stopped being friends, but like, that was crazy. Honestly, that was crazy that night. Like, I'm sorry I was a little caught off guard and hurt. But, like, your. Your response to my being a little hurt just because it happened at your dinner was me. It was mean, you know, and. And your follow up was. Was mean. And, like, you just. You made it all about you, you know? I mean, is. Are you so important that, like, no one's allowed to have hurt feelings just because you got engaged? Like, what is that? Give yourself permission to move forward and say goodbye to this friendship and not let her and her kind of bully behavior get into your head and make you question your character and your integrity. You know? You know, deep down whether you did something right or wrong, and it doesn't sound like you did.

[Nicole]

Well, I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

[Nick Viall]

Well, thanks for the call. Congratulations on this new and exciting relationship. Hopefully it works out and let her go live her life.

[Nicole]

Well, thank you so much.

[Nick Viall]

All right.

[Nicole]

Nice meeting you.

[Nick Viall]

You as well.

[Nicole]

Take care.

[Nick Viall]

All right. Bye.

[Nicole]

Bye. Bye.

[Nick Viall]

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[Rose]

Hi, my Name's Rose. I'm 28 and my boyfriend of two years refused to do long distance because I'm moving to Miami for a job. So I'm wondering if it's the right choice to lose the one or who I think is the one. I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. Well, congratulations on the new job.

[Rose]

Thank you.

[Nick Viall]

How excited are you about the job?

[Rose]

So that's the hardest part about it because I am really excited and I think going into choosing. Is it okay if I just jump into.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Rose]

Okay. So basically because so the basically kind of the way things happen is I. So I just graduated from law school, you know, I, I'm going to be a prosecutor. I've been. So this is like my dream job. And when I was kind of coming down to choosing different jobs for the next coming year, I did get, I got both a job offer in our hometown and in Miami. And when I was weighing the pros and cons of both jobs, I mean they're pretty similar jobs overall, except for the fact that the Miami office is better. It would allow me more opportunities down the line. And also, too, another thing about it at the end of the day is, you know, I've been in my hometown for a while at this point, so there is kind of a part of me that wants to go somewhere different temporarily just for a little bit to get that experience, too. And I mean, Miami, like, you know, why not the beaches I love, you know, so, yeah, that's. And so. But the only downside with it was so. Because I. When I was kind of choosing between the two offers, I, you know, I. I talked to my. My family, my friends, and everyone was on board with it except for my boyfriend. But the thing is, it wasn't that he wasn't on board with it, because basically when I was considering both offers, I talked to him, and I was basically like, you know, hey, I'm really excited about this offer, but I mean, I want to make sure this is okay with you, because, you know, we'd been dating for two years. Like, I see. I saw at the time, because we unfortunately broke up, but it's our future with him. And so I wanted to make sure, like, he was on board with it. And he was. He basically said to me, he was like, you know, I don't want to move to Miami, but this is important for you. I will support you in this. We will do. We can do long distance. So based on that, I took the offer. And also, too, another thing that I was clear with him about, too, was kind of saying that it was only. It's only going to be temporary for a couple years at most. And then I do plan on coming back to, like, our hometown where we are. So basically, so having done that, I took the job offer, but. And then a couple months pass by. This is like, we're getting to, like, November at this point. And he like. And I. I kind of. In retrospect, I kind of noticed that he was starting to kind of pull away a little bit in little, little ways. But I didn't really realize at the time. But anyways, then in November, we basically. He comes to me kind of out of the blue and is basically just like, hey, I don't want to do long distance when you're in Miami. And also, like, I am not even sure if I want to, like, get married or, like. And. And then I kind of asked him a little bit too. I was like, well, is the long distance really what's causing you to have doubts about this relationship? And he also just said, too. He was like, you know, sometimes I feel like I'm a sidekick in our relationship. You have, you know, you're doing all these great things, and he. He is too. Like, he has a really good job. So that's why it was kind of frustrating for me in that conversation, because, you know, I. To me, I was like, this. Why wasn't this a conversation? Why are you immediately jumping to breaking up now? So. So basically. So I kind of. After that conversation, I kind of. In that conversation, I. I kind of took it as well. This is us breaking up right now. So I told. I basically kind of gave him a little bit of an ultimatum. I basically said to him, I was like, you know, okay, well, if we're breaking up now, we're done. We, like, you know, we cannot be friends. We.

[Nicole]

We.

[Rose]

We're. We have to be completely done. And he was basically. He kind of backtracked. He was like, what do you mean we can't be friends? What do you mean, we can't still see each other? I don't. He didn't really fully think through what it meant to actually be broken up. So I kind of told him. I was like, we're either either fully together or we're done. And he chose. He was like, no, I want to stay together. So.

[Nick Viall]

So. Can I just pause for a second?

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

When he came to you and was like, hey, just kidding, not sure if I can do long distance. And, oh, by the way, here are some other things that have been bothering me. How quickly did you jump to. So I guess we're breaking up.

[Rose]

So I kind of.

[Nicole]

Maybe a little quick.

[Rose]

Well, my. My response. I kind of did go on the defensive a little bit because I basically kind of said to him, I was like, well, I want to be with someone who's 100% committed to me, who knows that they want to marry me, who. Who is willing to make the sacrifice to do long distance because, you know, my future husband, who I want to get married to. Like, like, things come up in. In marriage, and you have to be able to kind of compromise, you know, at certain points. So, like, that was. That was kind of how I. What I told him. And he. And. And I did say to him, too. I was like, you know, like, you can think about it, but, like, that. That's kind of where I'm at with it. And he was kind of like, well, okay, but I don't want to break up. I don't think. I don't think the. The communication wasn't, like, 100%, like, wasn't amazing. I would Say, looking back on both sides.

[Nicole]

Yeah, on both sides, exactly.

[Rose]

Because I think for me, I kind of went on the defensive and was like, if we're breaking up, then we're breaking up. So it wasn't. It wasn't fully. At that point in November, even though we were kind of going to break up, we ended up, like, you know, staying together, but kind of in limbo because I think in my mind, I was kind of delusional, kind of thinking, like, I just. I hope he changes his mind about long distance. I hope he, like, you know, maybe. Maybe us. And it was like, right before the holidays.

[Nick Viall]

That's not delusional.

[Rose]

Okay, thanks for saying that, because I,

[Nick Viall]

you know, first of all, all you're talking about is some hope. And, And. And this is hope you had with a boyfriend of two years. It's not some guy you met a week ago. He surprised you with some new information which was inconsistent with what he told you in the past. Like you said, some tough conversations neither of you were really prepared to have, and neither of you really knew what to say. So the communication, as you recognize, wasn't great. And yeah, of course, not only. It's not delusional. It's incredibly normal for you to be like, well, I hope he comes around. Obviously, this is big news that I'm presenting to him. And you were empathetic to recognizing that it might take him some time to process and, And. And hopeful that, like, what you guys built over two years was enough for him to, like, not let you go so easily. So, like, not in any way delusional.

[Rose]

No. Thank you for saying that and validating that, because I think, like, the hardest thing for me is just feeling. I felt. I also felt a lot of guilt at that point, too, because I was like, well, you know, I am still. I'm ultimately the one choosing to leave to take this job in Miami.

[Nick Viall]

What is. What does he do?

[Rose]

He's in banking.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. So it's not like he. And does he like it sometimes?

[Rose]

Like, like, he does and he doesn't. So that's also another reason why, like, there are a lot of banks in Miami.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, that's. Well, yeah, that's a good point. And so to your point, if he really wanted to, he could follow you.

[Rose]

Yeah. And so, because. And then. So, because basically, just to kind of. To give you a little bit more context here, because I think so basically, like, after that was. So we didn't break up at that point. I'm living in hope. I'm really hopeful. It. This is Like, November and December, We. We do all the Christmasy things. We're, you know, we're visiting his family. We're. We're seeing my family.

[Nick Viall]

You're almost pretending the conversation didn't happen, and you're kind of just like business as usual during the holidays.

[Rose]

Yes, but in the back of my mind, I still feel this, like, ah. So basically, what. When we ended up. How we ended up breaking up was so he went out to dinner with some of his, like, buddies a couple days before Christmas, and one of his good friends just got engaged, and they started dating around the same time that we started dating. So that was kind of like. I mean, everyone has their own timeline. But I. But I just think because of. Of the situation that was going on with him and I. It kind of was a little bit of assault in the wound. So when I, like, we were talking on the phone about that dinner, like, the next day, because I was talking to him, I was like, oh, okay. Like, how was dinner? Whatever. And I think, to be fair, I did, you know, don't touch the pot if you don't want to get burned. Right? Like, I. Basically, I asked him. I. Because I knew I was like, there's.

[Nicole]

They're.

[Rose]

They're definitely going to ask about him and I. After, you know, because of course, so. Because basically, like, I asked him, I was like, oh, okay. So, you know, that's so great that they got engaged. Did anyone kind of say to you, like, hey, what's up next for. For you and Rose? Like, what's, you know, what's going on there? And at first, he kind of, like, you know, didn't really give me an answer, but I kind of pressed him on it, and he said. He was like, yes, they did ask me, and I told them, it's not gonna. It's probably not gonna work out because she's moving to Miami.

[Nick Viall]

Me.

[Rose]

In that moment, my. First of all, my heart was, like, broken. And secondly, it was kind of like. I think we both realized, like, on that phone call, like, oh, this is the standstill here. Like, you can't really go back from that, you know, but so we kind of. And this all happened on the phone. So I think we ended up. Phone call kind of being like, okay, well, you know, I guess we're. We're breaking up. But, like, we can, like, I don't know. We'll. We'll talk. We'll have a talk later today. I get home from work later that day, and he texted me and was like, I already dropped all your Stuff off. I dropped all your keys off. So I was, at this point, I'm just like, everything is just happening so quickly.

[Nick Viall]

Did he ever ask you not to move?

[Rose]

So later that night when we did, we did finally have like a final in person talk and he said to me, he was like, I don't think it would be fair of me to ask you not to move. Which like, is. I, I thought that was nice of him to say, but also like, the thing is for me, I think that the big, the hardest.

[Nick Viall]

But he's still never ever asked you.

[Rose]

He never asked me like, not to move. He was just wonder.

[Nick Viall]

I'm curious. Like, I appreciate the fairness and I appreciate you seeing the good in, in that statement, but your career aside and, and, and all those things, I imagine there's a part of you that wanted him to ask you not to move to at least whether he is right or selfish or not. Not, not recognizing your career. But like, I imagine you still wanted to hear that. Like, don't go, oh, a hundred percent. Yeah.

[Rose]

Yeah. Because I think, I think like for me the hardest, like the, the, the, the guilt that I'm feeling now, the hardest thing for me is that if, if when we had originally talked about it, right, Me going to, me considering the offer, if he had said like, hey, I'm having concerns about you taking this offer. I don't know if this is the right move for us. You know, at least I would have had all the information I needed to make the decision, right? And then I could have thought about it and been like, wait, like, you know, maybe I don't want to take this offer. Maybe this isn't the right offer, like just for all parts of our, our life together, you know, because, because I, because I think, because he waited and was like, hey, actually, you know, I know you already took the offer, but you know, I, I don't want to do long distance anymore. And also too, the fact that he doesn't even want to try long distance, that's the, that's the thing that really messes with me too. It's like, it's not like we tried long distance and it's not working. He doesn't even want to try. And then another, another layer is I'm not even moving until August. So there's all this time now until August and we, we broke up. Like now that's what I'm kind of wrestling with too.

[Nick Viall]

After, after he dropped his stuff off. Have you been, have you communicated at all?

[Rose]

Yeah, so basically. So the last time, so I Saw him, like, after he dropped his stuff off, and we had one final talk. We were both. Both crying. We're both. He was saying, like, I'm so sorry. Like, you know, like, I. I. And. And then one thing that he said to me, too, that really messed with me was he said. He said he was like, I feel like if we had a longer conversation about you going to Miami, we could have avoided all this. Which, like, what does that mean? Why didn't we have that conversation?

[Nicole]

Then?

[Nick Viall]

It seems. It feels like neither of you have really put it all on the table, and. And at least you. I can't speak for him. It sounds. I mean, dropping yourself off is hardcore, but have you just said exactly how you feel, whatever that is, you know, I don't want to lose you. Let's have this conversation. Have you fought to keep this relationship? Do you feel like you fought for this relationship without trying to consider his feelings and fairness and. Am I being selfish, or am I asking too much for him? Whatever the. The right answer is, do you feel like you have put all the cards on the table and made it very clear that I don't know how we're gonna figure this out, but what I do know is I don't want to lose you. Have you made that clear?

[Rose]

Yes. I texted so shortly after, because originally, after we broke up, I was. I was like, I'm gonna go into no contact. I'm gonna be really good. But, you know, I think because of the guilt I was feeling and just overall, like, I was like, no. No contact is not the right. Right choice at this point in time. So I did. I. I texted him. I was like, I don't want to lose you. I think we're throwing our relationship away. There's so much that could even change before I go to Miami. I asked him. I was like, would you ever consider doing couples therapy with me so that we could talk about, like, you know, why you're having these reservations about me going to Miami? I also said to him, too. I was like, we could do a checkpoint thing where if I get down there and, like, okay, a couple months, six months in, it's not working. You know, it wouldn't be the best thing for my career, but I would be open to considering coming back because that's how much I value this relationship, our future together. And he didn't want any of it. He was like. He was. He was like, no. And. And he even said, too. He was like, I. I. I wouldn't want to do long distance for anyone. It's just not what I want to do. Like, I don't want to do long distance. Which was also really hard to hear.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I think you have your answer now. The answer you want. But there is something more that he's not telling you, and maybe he doesn't have the answer. Long distance isn't ideal. No one roots. No one's like, I want. I want to have a long distance relationship. I mean, maybe some people find the joys and missing people and things like that, but I think he's using as an excuse. You said some. Did you try to peel back any more of that comment he made about, I feel like I'm your sidekick a little bit?

[Rose]

I kind of like, from what he told me about, he said that basically he was like, you know, you have all these things going on. We're always busy on the weekends doing stuff like going to. To, you know, your, your events, your friends, stuff, like. And I just feel like I can't keep up with that. So that's kind of the extent that, that I peeled that part back and

[Nick Viall]

he just basically couldn't keep up with.

[Rose]

I mean, I'm.

[Nicole]

I'm like a big.

[Rose]

A big runner. So we would do like five kids with my mom on the weekend. But it's like all those things too. Like, every. Everything he said, like, if he had said to me, hey, I don't want to do the 5k this weekend. I don't want to go to your friend's wedding or whatever, like, I would. I would have been okay with that. Like, it just. It just. There was no conversation. It was just like, hey, no, I don't want to do this anymore.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I think the, the, the honest. My guess is he used you, this opportunity that you had as an excuse to end the relationship for ultimately a relationship that wasn't working for him. I don't know why or the reasons, but his lack of willingness to fight for it. Because, listen, what you're presenting, not ideal for sure. But as you've said, like, first of all, even if he decided not to move, it's just a plane right away, it sounds like you guys both have some means, you have some extra cash, you can afford some, you know, travel expenses that aren't ideal. But, like, again, there's Miami, it's a fun city. Like, there's a lot of ways to make this work that he is refusing to consider. I think you should let go the, the comment he made about, well, if we had a longer conversation about you moving, maybe we could have worked this Out. Forget he ever said that. He didn't mean it.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

You know, I think that was something he said to put the blame on you when deep down he knew that he didn't want to keep this relationship going, but either didn't know or didn't have the guts to tell you.

[Rose]

Yeah, no, that's. That's really helpful to hear, even though it's not what I want to hear, you know, But. But it. But I think one other thing. Can I just add in one other thing kind of in the aftermath. So basically, so since then, because I. I completely agree with what you're saying, even though it's not what I want to hear. But since then, now, you know, I'm still here in my hometown until August. And so since. Since we did break up, up, He. So basically we do for better, for worse, we still go to the same gym. So in the ensuing months. I did see him like a month ago at the gym, and at that point, I was actually starting to feel better. Really, like, you know, kind of detaching from the situation. Just in a good. So basically I saw him at the gym and we had a brief encounter where I was just like, oh, hi. Like, you know, and he said, hi, whatever. After that, the next day he texted me and was like, oh, like, I saw your car at the gym today. Like, too bad I didn't see you there. Something like that. And then he actually asked me to get coffee, and we did end up getting coffee. You know, everything felt like just normal, except we're not together. And it was kind of, like, hard for me because, you know, he was like, oh, my mom asks about you all the time. He brought, like, a gift, a Christmas gift that is, his, like, cousin or sister had gotten for me. So I. I guess my last kind of question on is how. How do I.

[Nicole]

Like, what.

[Rose]

What's. What advice do you have for me going forward? Because I think I know deep down in the best case scenario, I would love for him to come back and be like, wait, I made a huge mistake. Like, I don't want to lose this relationship of two years. So I either want that to happen, or I want to just fully move on.

[Nicole]

So what.

[Rose]

What do you think that was bad that we had coffee?

[Nicole]

Like, what?

[Nick Viall]

You know, I think it's part of the process. Was it bad? No. Was it helpful in you moving forward? No. And so I think give yourself some grace. Yeah. I mean, you're still healing from this, and you still have reasons to have a little bit of hope. You know, it's normal because I think I'm right about there's something he's not sharing with you. Or maybe he doesn't have the answer. You guys, he obviously enjoys you. You had a nice couple year relationship. There's a good chance he doesn't have the clarity about why he feels the way he does. He's not asking you not to move. And the fact that you could find work in your hometown, which it's not like he's asking you not to, you know, he's just asking you not to go to Miami. Yeah, he's not doing that. He's just, there's just so many ways he could be fighting for this relationship, and that he's not doing that gives you the answer, which is to probably move on. It's normal to get a cup of coffee, but going forward, I would be resistant to doing that again unless he has something new to say. If he were to reach out to you and say, can we get together? Can we talk? I would say, about what? And if he's just like, well, I don't know, I just want to talk. Be like, well, I mean, I would love to talk, but I want it to be productive. And if it's not about us figuring this out, then I don't see the point. Because right now you're still in town. If nothing else, from his point of view, the relationship was good and obviously there's a reason why he's in it. And again, if I'm right about him using this opportunity you have as an excuse to end the relationship, he's still like, as I always say, when people decide to move on. Right. So if, forgive me if I don't want this hurt your feelings. But if he wants out of this relationship, there is a part of him that thinks there's something better out there for him. Doesn't mean he wants to find someone better than you. But he, you know, we, you know, there's the only reason why we leave. Right. You know, it's just like I just, I, I want there. I think there's something else better there for me. Right? And it's, it's fairly easy to have that feeling. It's really hard to follow through with it and execute it. Right? Because that something better almost never shows up right away. And even if that something better comes from maybe he met a girl at a gym or something and had a good date or something, you know, there's highs and lows in meeting new people and, and he could think of, he could have a really, he could Have a, a two week fling with some girl and it could be really fun. And, and maybe she validates him in ways that he didn't feel validated by you because, you know, she doesn't make me run 5k or whatever it is and then that dies. And then he misses you, you know, he gets bored, you know, and he, he's reminded of like having good times and like the coffee or seeing you at the gym is like, it would just be nice to see her. But he's still not doing anything about it. It, he's still not, you know, he's still not fighting for the relationship. So the, him reaching out right now, if, if he doesn't have anything specific to talk about is him selfishly treating his feelings, if that makes sense. You know, it's like I need, I, I have this immediate feeling. Maybe I'm feeling insecure, maybe I'm feeling a little lonely. I'm missing her companionship and I need that right now. So I want to reach out and she'll make me feel good in this moment. And that's why we reach out to exes and that's why we check in and because he is not necessarily second guessing his decision, but it's coming from a place of the fear of the unknown. But it's not enough to fight for the relationship. It's not enough to ask you to stay, reconsider the long distance. You're. You're all right now. You're in the state of like, let's just figure it the fuck out. I, I want to be with you. And yeah, I want these other things, but like, we can have it all. It might not, you know, not, maybe not in the short term, but in the long term we can. And in the, and in the short term, the things that we have to, the inconveniences we have to face, there could be exciting opportunities that come from it. You know, who knows what it is? But you're open to all that, which is the right approach and he's not. I think the best thing you can do is just accept that as hard as it is and know that you've done everything you could to make sure that you weren't leaving something special. You started this call saying, basically saying, is it worth pursuing this dream job while giving up the love of my life? And that isn't inaccurate statement right now because it's not the love of your life. It's not the best relationship you ever, ever, you know, and maybe it's the best relationship you've ever had, but it's. There's some issues with how he's showing up in this relationship, and there's some issues with how he is his willingness to support you in your dreams. You know, in every relationship and certainly every marriage, there are seasons of it's my time to show up for you because you've shown up for me. And sometimes we can show up at the same time together, and we can both have what we want. And then there'll be other times where, you know, this relationship requires a little bit more sacrifice for me from me so that my person can fulfill their dreams, but I find fulfillment and seeing my person accomplish what they want and things like that, and he is not being fulfilled by you following your dreams. You know, like right now, like, I started this, you know, show before I met Natalie, and then I just kind of brought her in. She just kind of fell into it. Right. And I really think Natalie is a star. You know, I think my. My time on TV or doing the show, I'm a grinder. I. You know, I can perform. It doesn't come naturally to me. My success, I think, is mostly based off of I don't need outside validation for me to show up every day and do what I think is right. And I think that allows me to continue to have success. I think my wife is a star. I think she's a natural. I think if she wanted to pursue acting even now, but certainly early in her life, I think she could have been a really talented actor. And now that we are hosting this Netflix show together, all I care. I like. I just. I want her to have all the attention I really could give a. About whatever recognition I get. I just think she. I find so much joy and her having these opportunities and discovering these opportunities. And I'm really curious if she wants to continue to pursue these opportunities, what she can make of herself. And I get so much personal satisfaction and joy from that now, partly because I've. I've done. I'm also, like, very secure with what I've done. You know, that's why I asked him, is he happy with this job? You know, so it is easy for me to really root for her because I'm. I'm not feeling like I haven't accomplished things or that I haven't, you know, arrived. I know that sounds weird, but you get what I'm saying, right? And he is not. He doesn't have that joy from your success. And I think that's a big thing, especially someone like you who has her own personal aspirations and Career goals. I think it's really important you find someone who can find joy in your success. Especially because you are someone who clearly isn't like this self centered. You're not saying, hey listen, I am a career woman, my job is my number one priority. You will always be second fiddle to that, you know, because there are people who are like that, just like, you know, and I understand especially in today's age where women still feel like they have to like, you know, choose between a career or being a family person. And there's this expectation for a lot of, I think women who, you know, really, you know, had these dreams, went to college, invested in their careers, invested in their education, their secondary education, went to school, got a job job. Am I going to be asked to give that all up someday? You know, and there are a lot of women who are very protective of that. And so when they meet people, they want to set that expectation and boundary. That's just like, just so you know, you know, and you're not, and you're not even, you're not doing that, you know, and you're giving him every opportunity to feel safe, to support you while not feeling like he has to completely lose himself. And the fact that he is still feeling this way and even though he's receiving your support is telling, which means that he needs something that you can't give him. So I think for you to in any way not embrace this new opportunity with complete enthusiasm and excitement because you think that you are giving up on something special, I would think it would be the wrong mindset for you because it's not. And I. It's not as special as you want to believe it is or was. And you receiving this opportunity is, it happened the way it should and it was probably a really, it was a probably meaningful moment in your relationship that really shed a lot a light on some issues that he was having and the relationship was having that he didn't have the ability to get the clarity himself or the guts to him to really get there on his own. And again, I think he used this opportunity to scapegoat his own feelings of doubt and insecurity. And without facing it and just having an honest conversation with you out of fear that it might hurt your feelings, he's put it all on you and essentially blamed you for the demise of the relationship.

[Rose]

Yeah, that's. No, thank you so much for saying that. Like it does really make me feel a lot better too. Because even as hard as it is like you saying that it is, I mean I Think, like, what you and Natalie have is so beautiful. And I want someone who thinks I'm a star. I want to be, you know, in a relationship where I feel, like, safe to pursue my dreams, but also know that I'm going to. I'm going to support them, too, and have that kind of, you know, that supportive dynamic. And. And if that's not him, then, you know, as sad as it is, because it was like my most meaningful relationship, that's okay, because now I can go forward to Miami and just be really excited about it and invest in myself and also just focus on the future.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And you've done everything you've could. You've. You've made it clear that you didn't want this. And the good news is that whether he wants to realize it now, he will realize it someday, that this was his choice and it wasn't yours. You accepted his choice with a lot of guts, and you had the guts to put out what you wanted, but strong enough in your beliefs that you weren't gonna. You weren't going to feel bad or allow him. Allow what he did to make you second guess your choice. And, yeah, I think as hard as it is, and I'm sure it's sad that. The good news is, I think you have a lot more clarity about this relationship than you realize. And you can again, I think, pursue this opportunity without any regret. Regret. And I would challenge you to. Not in those times am I making the right choice is will I regret this? You won't. Because if he wants to change his mind, if he wants to fight for this relationship anytime soon, my guess is you would be open to it. So there's still a chance. You still have that hope that, again, it's not delusion, but you're not going to wait around and you're not going to feel sorry for yourself. And the choice is his. You know, there's nothing. You've done everything you could, so, you know Buck, you know, you know, the ball's in his court, so to speak, and if he wants to man up and face his fears and figure his shit out, he can. And probably. There's a good chance you probably will be single for a while only because you have other pressing things going on. You're focused on your career. If. If some guy shows up in your world that surprises you, yeah, maybe you'll be open to it, but I'm guessing you're not going to. You're not giving me the energy that you're going to, like, jump on the, you know, you have shit going on. You're a busy person. And so honestly, he's probably, he's luckier in this situation than other people would because you pro. You have so much going on that you're. You would be available to consider him coming back, you know, longer than, you know, he might have a, he might have a longer window or than he otherwise would. So again, I'm only saying this to make, you know, you should, you should feel no guilt, no regret, and no second guessing the, the decision you made.

[Rose]

Oh, thank you so much, Nick. No, that's so, that's really helpful because I really did. I just, I did everything I could and now it's on him. If he wants to figure it out, like, that's great. But if not, I'm going to Miami. I'm gonna to embrace this opportunity and just not look back like you said.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, well, I'm sorry this didn't work out, but congratulations on this opportunity. Miami, I'm sure, will be fun. You know, and this is a blessing too, because, you know, if you were to choose to make a long distance relationship work, that would steal some of your energy away from this opportunity. It would be a distraction. You know, you would, it would be, it would make you, you know, this is freeing you up to really crush it at this job in a meaningful way. And maybe this needed to happen for, for you to really do that because you were, you know, relationships take a lot of work. They're hard. They. They require a lot of emotional energy and a lot of sacrifice. And again, you were willing to do that, but he, he freed you up to really kick ass.

[Rose]

No, absolutely. Because now, like, I don't have to, because I would have been willing to be the one, you know, traveling every month, every couple weeks. And he wasn't gonna do that.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, 100 if he, he, you know, there are a lot of people do that. It's like, well, you have to, you have to make it work. I don't have to make it work. I'm not moving. And that would have been so draining and so hard on you. And that, honestly, that would have been worst case for him to like, kind of try long distance. And you would have been, it would have, it would have really sucked a lot of emotional energy out of, out of you. And it would have really been. Made the transition a lot more difficult.

[Rose]

No, you're so right, because I think, like, you know, at first I was like, oh, why is this happening now? Why couldn't we had just at least tried it? But I think like you said, it is kind of a blessing that it's happening now that I can, when I do go to Miami, I can go in fully focused on my job, excited about the opportunity.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Is there any consideration of just moving to Miami sooner than later and just settling your roots down there and, and, and getting familiar with the city before you even start the job?

[Rose]

I would love to do that. The only thing is, like, so I am in, so. Because like, I technically. So I'm doing a one year job now with working, which I, Which I'm really liking. I'm getting great experience, but that job ends in like, beginning of August, and then I go to Miami. So that's the part, like, I'm, I can't, you know, and that, and that's, I think, what was part of adding to my, like, stress of being like, oh, my God, I'm in limbo right now, because if I could move to Miami, I'd love to go tomorrow and then.

[Nick Viall]

Sure.

[Rose]

Get started already. But, but I can, I can have that fresh start even now still, too. Just like having the mentality. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

All right, well, hopefully this was helpful.

[Rose]

Yes.

[Nick Viall]

And, yeah, it's. I'm sorry, I'm sorry about the breakup, but I really think this is, this is really a blessing, I think, for you.

[Rose]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And again, the door's not totally closed. I, I don't, I wouldn't hang on to a lot of hope and I, I would, I would move forward. It really. The ball is in his court. And, and, and, and I will say this one final thing. If, if he does again, I really want to stress if he comes back, he has to come correct and he has to be willing to show up. And it's not just you being grateful that he's willing to try, but how is he going to try? You know, I, I'm, I'm not gonna. Yeah. Long distance doesn't work. If, if, if I have to do all the work. You know, he has to be excited for you. He has to, you know, it has to include him being like, I'm really proud of you and how's it going and checking in and making you feel good about your move and your job. You know, it can't be emo. You know, it can't be guilt trips, and I'm just sad. I just constantly miss you. You're never, you know, always compl. You know, it can't be that. He has to really embrace this and be happy for you and think about, you know, the way to do, you know, it's Just like I can be happy for Natalie because I know that I benefit from her happiness and success. It's not completely selfless on my part, but we share. We're a team. And as a teammate, you root for each other's successes because ultimately you both win. And right now, he's not there with you and you are.

[Rose]

Yeah. He's on his own team, so if he ever wants to be on the team together, he's gonna. Like you said, he'll have to be the one to put that effort in because I already. I did. And now it's like. Like I'm moving forward.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. All right, well, good luck. Keep us. Keep us posted. And once you get out there and. And I'd love to catch up with you in a few months and. And see how you're doing.

[Rose]

Yes, absolutely. I'll definitely let you know how. How Miami's going, how the. Any. Any updates? So thank you so much again, Nick. I'm a great fan of you and the household and everything. So I really appreciate you giving me this clarity and help.

[Nick Viall]

All right, well, I'm glad it was helpful.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Rose]

Thank you.

[Nicole]

Take care.

[Rose]

Bye.

[Nick Viall]

Bye.

[Nicole]

We're lost. It feels like we're going round in circles.

[Natalie]

I'm going to ask that man for directions. Hi there.

[Nicole]

We're trying to get to the state fairgrounds.

[Nick Viall]

Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree at this here road. Nah, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Rose]

How is there signal out here?

[Nick Viall]

T Mobile and US Cellular are coming together. So the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five year price guarantee, too. Okay, here's the turn.

[Nicole]

Actually, can you pull up the way to a T Mobile store?

[Nick Viall]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available at US Cellular stores in hermiston. Best mobile network based on analysis by Ooklo speed test intelligence data. Second half of 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.