E1103 - West Wilscam and Scamanda Deep Dive + AOA Reunion with Carlos King and Dylan Nalbandian

Summary

The Viall Files: S11E03 – West Wilscam and Scamanda Deep Dive + AOA Reunion

Release Date: April 2, 2026
Host: Nick Viall
Guests: Natalie Joy, Susie, Mary, Nellie, Dylan Nalbandian, Carlos King

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Viall Files is a high-energy, jam-packed deep dive into two of reality TV’s most explosive storylines: the "Scamanda" (or “Scammerhouse” or “West Will Scam”) scandal rocking the Bravo-verse and the aftermath of the Age of Attraction reunion. Nick, joined by fan-favorite guests and reality TV heavyweights, tears apart the Wes and Amanda drama, explores the fallout for Sierra and the broader implications of "girl code," and gets exclusive industry insights from Carlos King—a Real Housewives producer and reality podcast star. The first third of the show also breaks down relationship dynamics from the Age of Attraction reunion, focusing especially on the Teresa and John saga.

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Key Segments and Discussion Points

1. Setting the Stage: This Week in Reality TV

[01:32–03:30]

• Susie returns with special guest Dylan Nalbandian.
• Nick sets the tone: “We all just have a lot to say about the Amanda and West drama... there are so many layers.”
• Brief rundown of episode topics: the “Age of Attraction” (AOA) reunion, the “Scamanda”/Summer House cheating scandal, and how reality TV consumption shapes their lives.

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2. Age of Attraction Reunion Breakdown

[06:12–18:14]

Main Focus: Teresa & John

• The panel reflects on the AOA reunion, especially the complex breakup of Teresa and John.
• Nick admits, “That was the couple I certainly was most interested in finding out, where are they now?” [06:42]
• John’s on-camera persona versus his off-camera actions: “You’re doing all this on camera and then watching the reunion to find out that he literally ghosted her. I’m like, that is the complete opposite of who you showed us on TV.” – Nellie [11:05]
• Discussion on age-gap relationships and whether John’s immaturity contributed to the breakup.
• Commentary on reality TV authenticity: “Most people who join these shows, they want to go on TV, you know what I’m saying?” – Nick [08:23]
• Reflections on Teresa’s maturity, especially as she faces the cast and John with grace after the breakup.
• Memorable moment: John went “mute” when confronted at the reunion – Susie [11:46]
• Analysis of communication issues labeled as “anxious attachment” and reality stars’ tendency to lean into clichés.
• Notable quote: “At the end of the day, manipulative, whatever. But like, it’s very much giving... you are every bit of the 27 year old man that you are.” – Nick [13:34]
• The group praises Teresa for demonstrating agency and resilience, and for attending the show “to do something for herself.” – Susie [16:09]

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3. Introducing Carlos King – “Scamanda”/Summer House Scandal

[19:43–79:10]

Naming the Scandal:

[19:43–21:46]

• The team debates what to call the Amanda and Wes cheating drama:
  • Scamanda, Scammerhouse, West Will Scam, etc.
  • “I think West Will Scam works better.” – Mary [21:40]

Who’s to Blame? Girl Code, Double Standards, and Public Outrage

[22:00–27:54]

• Dissection of why Amanda is bearing the brunt of public backlash, with insightful commentary on gendered expectations:
  • “Wes is definitely the biggest villain here... He was most in control of not letting Amanda off the hook.” – Nick [22:51]
  • Carlos notes, “Girl code is something that is so sacred... it’s expected for a guy to be a tool... but when it comes to girls... it’s Amanda is the villain, Ciara is the victim, obviously.” [23:13]
• The group discusses the necessity for Wes and Amanda’s affair to be “worth it”—since Amanda broke such a major trust.

The Timeline & PR Strategy

[24:35–29:43]

• Real-time news drop: “Summerhouse star Wes Wilson was in an exclusive relationship with another woman when Amanda Betula romance was exposed.” – Susie [25:38]
• Carlos unpacks the mechanics behind the joint statement: PR, network approval, and setting up the next reunion/spinoff.
• Audience's difficulty with a “situationship” being at the root of so much fallout.

Industry Spin and Editing

[30:14–39:15]

• Will Bravo re-edit upcoming episodes to emphasize the Amanda/Wes storyline?
  • “I think that’s a huge possibility.” – Carlos [39:15]
• Notable: Carlos frames the scandal as a “gold mine” for a mid-tier franchise like Summer House, predicting a ratings boon for the reunion.

The Audience’s Emotional Investment

[39:59–46:20]

• The group ponders whether Amanda and Wes underestimated the backlash and failed to coordinate with brands/PR teams.
• Strong observation: “This is just how it works. Women are always, regardless, going to get the shit end of the stick.” – Mary [42:47]
• Nick: “The fact that we're calling it Scamanda and not [something that centers] West tells you that the Internet thinks that Amanda is Sandoval.”

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4. The Wes and Amanda Double Standard: Why Does Amanda Take the Heat?

[47:14–50:47]

• Susie’s passionate take: “Just because he [Wes] benefits from low expectations, just because he is a fuckboy does not mean he gets to treat someone, Sierra, the way he has been treating her.” [46:20]
• Discussion on the weaponization of low expectations for men; Wes’s sheepish tactics at previous reunions.
• Comparison to Scandoval; why this storyline is so intense for an “adult” Bravo cast.

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5. Sierra’s Perspective and the Fallout

[54:09–62:04]

• Will Sierra get the “Ariana Maddix” comeback and public rally? Mixed feelings for what’s next for her professionally and emotionally.
• The group emphasizes that the deepest sting for Sierra is likely Amanda’s betrayal, not Wes’s.
  • “It’s like you’re mourning the friendship, not the like crush.” – Nellie [59:52]
• Extended discussion about loyalty and trust in friendships and reality TV circles.

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6. Who Made the First Move?

[61:27–62:04]

• “I think West for sure.” – Carlos King, with general agreement that Wes took advantage of Amanda’s vulnerability in the wake of her breakup with Kyle.

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7. (Briefly) Kyle’s Role in the Aftermath

[63:02–66:22]

• Touches on the stress and isolation Kyle was facing—does the public owe him understanding or sympathy as the “divorced guy”?
• Carlos’s producer take: Kyle’s best path to redemption is through humility and extending grace to Amanda on camera.

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8. Larger Reality TV Impacts & Sierra’s Future

[72:36–76:19]

• Carlos, Nick, and Dylan express hope that Sierra leverages the sympathy into major brand deals and a strong Bravo tenure.
• Audience speculation on whether Sierra would be a fit as Bachelorette (unlikely given network exclusivity).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Reality TV as Emotional Labor:
  “What she did was shitty and messy, but in no way makes what she did to Ciara okay... but you could at least be like, alright, she hasn't been in the dating world in a while.” – Nick [45:13]

• Carlos King on Gendered Double Standards:
  "Rachel hasn't worked since [Scandoval]. Tom Sandoval did a FOX competition show and … was on House of Villains and Traitors... the woman in the Coldplay scandal ... hasn't worked since, the guy's been offered four jobs.” [49:01]

• Susie on Wes:
  “That is not an excuse to treat people poorly.” [47:02]

• Nellie on Friendship Betrayal:
  "Your friends are supposed to be forever. These guys, you know, are kind of come and go." [61:23]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:30] – How social media amplified April Fools confusion in the Wes/Amanda reveal.
• [06:28] – Netflix renewing Age of Attraction for season 2.
• [11:46] – John goes “mute” at the reunion.
• [19:43] – Carlos King enters; scandal naming debate.
• [23:13] – Carlos King on girl code and why Amanda faces most backlash.
• [25:38] – Breaking tabloid news: Wes was in another relationship during Amanda affair.
• [39:15] – Will Bravo re-edit episodes post-scandal?
• [42:47] – Mary’s searing take on double standards for women in reality TV.
• [46:20] – Susie: “Just because he benefits from low expectations...”
• [54:09] – Carlos: “Her reputation is stained for quite a bit…”
• [62:04] – Carlos: "Wes had a front row seat to ... what Amanda needed."
• [66:22] – Carlos on Kyle’s post-divorce arc and opportunity for public redemption.
• [72:36] – Carlos: “Ciara deserves... the same success Ariana got...”
• [75:11] – Nick on why Sierra will never be the Bachelorette (contractually, emotionally).
• [76:34] – Team reflects how different Amanda’s narrative would be if she slept with Ben, not Wes.

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Takeaways & Themes

• Reality TV Drama as Business: The scandal is both a personal and network/brand chess game. Networks, PR, and brands are deeply involved in shaping public narratives.
• Gendered Backlash: Amanda receives outsized hate compared to Wes—rooted in internalized sexism, public expectations, and the “girl code” mythos.
• Authenticity and Manipulation: Both at the reunion and on Summer House, cast members are sometimes rewarded for on-camera manipulation and acting “for the edit.”
• Friendship Betrayal vs. Romantic Betrayal: Betrayal by friends stings more than by lovers—vividly articulated in discussions about Sierra’s pain.
• Career Fallout: Reality TV scandals can ruin (Amanda) or create (Ciara, Ariana) long-term opportunities, but the pattern almost always disadvantages women.

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Conclusion

This episode weaves together pop culture analysis, real-time breaking news, and insider industry perspective, serving up the messiest relationship scandal on Bravo with clarity and empathy. Whether you're obsessed with Age of Attraction or the "Scamanda" drama, the hosts and guests make clear that reality TV is at its best—and its most revealing—when it mirrors the real stakes of friendship, trust, and public perception.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Susie]

Yeah. No, I don't need to.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

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[Carlos King]

Whoa.

[Nick]

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[Susie]

We'll just use your phone as a flashlight.

[Nick]

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[Carlos King]

you'.

[Nick]

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another unbelievably like just jam packed crazy episode. We don't let's it's gonna be crazy. It's gonna be crazy. Scamander I don't know if we've landed on a name.

[Mary]

I don't like it. We we're workshop.

[Nick]

We're gonna be workshopping it but so much to get into. It's gonna be a high energy episode this episode. Susie is back with the household. She brought a very special friend Dylan now Bandian with her. I know many Dylan. He's got a lot of great content floating around on the Internet and he's got some great takes he's bringing into the studio with him today. Mary's also with us also I believe Carlos King is gonna be joining us momentarily. You all know Carlos as a former Real Housewives producer and podcaster, friend of show and we you know, we all. We all just have a lot to say about the Amanda and West drama in West.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah.

[Nick]

We also have the Age of Attraction reunion that premiered last night. And we appreciate you all supporting and watching. Lots to get into. So we'll talk a little Age of Attraction reunion. I mostly just want to focus on Teresa and John, obviously, if the rest of the household wants to break anything down, but we'll be talking about that. But this is going to be full on Scamanda. Outside of the Age of Retraction reunion, we're going to give you exactly what you want, what you need. There's just so many layers to this. I don't even know. My brain is scrambled eggs right now. It's just. It's. It's crazy.

[Mary]

River was like walking on water yesterday. And I was like, nick, watch river.

[Nellie]

And he was like, I can. I'm on Twitter. There's so many things coming out.

[Susie]

Nick was on Twitter. He was busy.

[Mary]

He goes, I'm working. I'm like, please, I am working.

[Nick]

I was just like, this is work. I. You know what? What can I say? I've carved out a nice little life for myself. I know you have.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

It's honestly the best kind of work, especially when it doesn't involve you.

[Susie]

Right?

[Nick]

Exactly. Oh, my God. It's truly the best. Well, before we get rocking and rolling in all this contest, a couple reminders. Don't forget the Vile Files pluses. Again, ad free. So if you want to listen to all your favorite Vile Files episodes without any ads, you can do that now on Vile Files plus. Additionally, we have a rally recap Deep Dives, where we dive deep into all your reality TV drama will obviously give you some BTs on the age of Attraction reunion. Obviously, the west and Amanda and all that. Like, we'll. We'll get into the weeds. You know, we'll get into the theories. Obviously, we will do it here. But if you are thirsting for even more, you know where to find it, and that is on Vile Files Plus. So go to Vile Files.com to sign up. All right, before we jump into Age of Attraction reunion, I will say, like, Monday was crazy because as. As Susie in and Mary know, like, when we were talking about Wes and Amanda, we ended up like. I think everyone just, like, thought it was a joke. You know, today's. We're recording this literally on April Fools. Like, today is April Fools. So then there was a lot of, like, this is going to be an April Fool's joke. And it was just. It just seemed so I think especially

[Mary]

because everyone, like KJ and Carl and Lindsay, like all of these people were posting just like memes of themselves, which was giving very much trolling. It was like we're trolling the fans.

[Nick]

You had Wes liking some stuff that seemingly confirmed that this was going on and you thought, there's no way. Yeah, he's just gonna be out there, gonna be that. This messy in the comments, breaking it this way. But then after we got done recording, I got a. I got a couple calls and. And I got a couple calls and. And I was like, I. I found out Monday afternoon that it was real. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I've heard from a source too, that it is.

[Nick]

I heard that there was going to be a statement coming. So then we just, we honestly, because, like, our take mostly was this. Like, if this is fake, that's kind of like, this is not a funny joke. Like you're activating fans in a way that's like going to be upsetting. Like, if this is a joke, this is a really bad joke. And had to wait for the. The big announcement. The. They. Yeah, they did a joint announcement for seemingly a situationship.

[Carlos King]

Oh, my God.

[Nellie]

I know.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

That is so funny.

[Susie]

The joint. Yeah, the joint situation. The joint connection announcement, as I believe Venita Vanita called it.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I started following west and Amanda yesterday, just waiting because I knew it was coming.

[Nick]

Well, that was nice of you because most people been unfollowing them. So, like, you

[Mary]

fixed the curve.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I'm going to do after this.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I need to know when it was going to come in.

[Nellie]

You're locked in for the drama now.

[Nick]

All right, well, we have so much to break down when it comes to the Amanda and West. But before we do, let's talk a little Age of Attraction reunion. Well, we are very excited to announce that we found out yesterday we are getting a season two, so yay, Congrats.

[Nellie]

So exciting.

[Mary]

Maybe that reunion will be on Netflix. A lot of questions about why this one is not and things above. Listen, it was a first season show. We only got eight episodes. Hoping for more episodes, second season, you know.

[Nick]

But we are very grateful for the Netflix team to allow us to produce, host and deliver you the reunion and certainly glad that you all enjoyed it. I want to talk about Teresa and John for a minute because, like, I think that was like probably, you know, I think our favorite couple throughout the show, I think that was the couple I certainly was most interested in finding out kind of, where are they now?

[Nellie]

I'm so curious for those of you

[Nick]

they seem to Be somewhat on good terms, but, like, you know, going into the reunion, you could. Like, the cast is overall pretty close, and John is part of the close knit of the cast. And, you know, Teresa, I think, is, you know, a mom living her best life. I don't think she is as interested in the, you know, the camaraderie that comes with, like, we just did a reality.

[Mary]

She works in fashion, she's busy. She's like, you know, and I think

[Nick]

with other people, there's like a kind of a summer. You know, it's a summer camp vibe, whatever. You know, a lot of the part of the reunion was like, you know, did age play a role in your relationship not working? And it was. It was. To me, it was always interesting to hear. Like, none of the younger guys were like, oh, no. Like, of course, no. It's just like our communication, you know, it was like. It wasn't. It wasn't the fact that I was a lot younger, but I was like, I think the fact that you are a bad communicator is maybe you being this young is part of the reason. Like, it's like they never wanted to acknowledge maybe their immaturity in it because, like, you know, if you. If you watch the reunion there, there they referenced, like, this voice note, right, where Teresa was like, I don't give a shit. Talk about it. And John. John came in very much trying to, like, paint a. Like, he had all of the cast kind of rallying behind him. Like, it. To my understanding, everyone's heard this voice memo that Teresa apparently said in John, and it sounds like she was mad. And I think she came in real hot, and I think maybe she lost her shit. And I don't even think Teresa denied any of that. Right? We don't. I don't know exactly what was on it, but, like, I think the rest of the cast heard it, and they were all like, that shit was crazy. But my interpretation is, is this, like, bro, like, you played with fucking fire and you got burnt, you know, and that's what I was trying to talk about when we were, you know, I think two. Two things can be true. We'll talk. We'll get into it with us and Amanda, especially when it comes to reality tv, most people who join these shows, they want to go on tv, you know what I'm saying? Are they open to finding connections? Of course. Some people are more genuine than others. I think John and Teresa had a legitimate connection. I think there was real feelings there. I also think Jon initially came on for the Clout right. And then I think he dated Teresa and he, he, he fell in love in this bubble and he was this supportive boyfriend and he showed up for her and he calmed her down when she got activated a little bit in this world. And as Teresa pointed out, when they got out of this world, it's like he was a different person. And then she got made to feel like she was older by some people. And John's like, we only, age is only gonna be a thing if we allow it to.

[Mary]

I'm saying, like, I felt like I reassured her enough in Vancouver and it's like, no, that, like, that's like your

[Nick]

second week of dating yet also it's

[Mary]

still in that bubble. Like you ha. You're not even in the real, the real world is what she's been so anxious. Like, that is where you need to step up and be like, hey, don't worry, my sister's not clowning you, I promise.

[Susie]

Like, yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

But it sounds like he completely shut down and was like, yeah, that is an excuse and use Teresa's freak out as a justification to like end the relationship. And it's like she warned you, she warned you that this is going to be scary for her. She warned you that she has had bad relationships. She trusted you that you could handle the like, the required maturity that came with dating someone in the, in the season of life that she is in. And he ended up just being a 27 year old guy.

[Nellie]

Well, I was going to say, I, I don't mean, I don't want to put a blank statement on somebody and be like, you're manipulative or whatever, but I do think when somebody has the emotional intelligence to understand how television works a little bit, hearing what happened afterwards, it's like he played his cards so well on camera. He's showing up for, he's reassuring, he's validating. Like watching it back, I was, I thought he was very kind and very reassuring. But a part of me was like, you're doing all this on camera and then watching the reunion to find out that he literally ghosted her. I'm like, that is the, that is the complete opposite of who you showed us on tv. And I feel like it's not even just age to me. I'm like, that's a manipulative person. You're putting it on for the camera and then you ghost this person.

[Susie]

I will never forget because I was, I was in here at the producer desk during the reunion and when you were trying to get John to like, when he, when he just like, couldn't speak.

[Mary]

He went mute.

[Susie]

He just like, he went mute and he was like, I like the gag that I suppressed because it's just like, say it.

[Nick]

We took a break right before we got to Teresa and John, right before we started. John, like, John was like right to my left and he was like, I'm just like. He's like, I'm just like, I don't know, I'm just not feeling well. I'm like, oh, shit, are you sick? He's like, no, it's just like a really heavy day. And like, I, I personally felt like he was trying to garner favoritism and sympathy from me, knowing that we were about to like, get into it. I'm like, so you're not sick? You know, like, but he was kind of pretending to be a little sick and it kind of felt a little. Again, I, you know, I don't think anyone needs to be vilified on this cast. What I liked about the reunion is like, they spoke their piece, they confronted each other about like, some of the, the ways they felt like, you know, mistreated. But it didn't end in a way that was like, no one needs to be demonized. But I do feel like, yeah, like, it seemed like Jon did the, the classic thing that guys do where like, they don't show up or they push or they, they know how their partner, their partner gets activated and then they use how they respond as a way is a justification for like, oh, like, well, if you're, if you're gonna just freak out like that. I'm just, I'm just like, oh my God. I told you.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah, right.

[Nick]

I told you that age wasn't going to be a number if, if you didn't let it. And you are letting it. So I guess we should break up because, like, you deserve to be happy and I clearly can't make you happy. And like, what am I? It's just like, it's.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah. Manipulative.

[Nellie]

Yeah.

[Susie]

It's like you could try to make me happy if you wanted to. Yeah, it's actually like, not that hard.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And at the end of the day, manipulative, whatever. But like, it's very much giving. Yeah. You are every bit of the 27 year old man that you are. And maybe in some areas in life you are mature for your age. Like when, when John kept talking about he's anxiously attached, and he said anxiously attached three times in less than 90 seconds.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I was like, okay.

[Mary]

But then also I was like, well, were you anxiously attach like, once y' all left the retreat, or was that only something that you experienced in the retreat? Because if you were outside, then, like, maybe y' all wouldn't have had some of these issues. He's saying, like, how. How can you be anxiously attached to someone but also be like, sorry, I'm just, like, not really a texter. I just, like, don't really like. And then ghost them and I'm busy. I don't talk on the phone a lot.

[Susie]

You know, he probably has gotten tiktoks that have said he's an anxious avoidant. And I think he's really leaned into that.

[Nellie]

Yeah.

[Mary]

All the.

[Nellie]

The age gap couples, I think it was like, if the girl was older, we ran into communication issues, as it was called. But if the girl was younger, it worked out, like, a little bit better. I mean, not everybody, but I think in general, like, there is, in general, in society, age gap couples, you tend to see, like, the guys older, the girls younger. And I love that in the show, you saw a lot of women date younger men. But I was kind of watching, like, and then in the reunion, I'm like, this is why it doesn't work.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nellie]

And even Teresa and John coming back in and having such a positive relationship with each other, I was like, the only reason this is positive is because Theresa is so mature that she's able to come in here and put the BS aside and be like, you're a great person. I'm not going to berate you and talk down to you like, I respect you and I loved you. But, like, that's only because she's mature.

[Nick]

That's a great point, Susie. Like, yeah, it's only because of Teresa's maturity that allows them to be civil. Because I think Theresa, honestly has. I think has every right to be like, you played me. Fuck that guy.

[Susie]

Get fucked.

[Nellie]

Yeah.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

What also speaks to, I think, of how you guys said she doesn't really care so much about the TV of it all.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

She's just operating how she would, like, normally instead of amping it up to. For television.

[Nellie]

Yeah.

[Susie]

Yeah. Teresa, I love her. I told her that when, like, she, like, meeting her. That light she has on tv.

[Nellie]

Yeah.

[Susie]

It was just like, when I met her, I was like, you just have that. Yeah, she just is. I don't know. I felt very inspired by seeing her, like, on TV and stuff of just, like, you know, it seemed like she went on that show really to do something for herself.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah.

[Susie]

And I just, like, really, really loved that.

[Nick]

Yeah. I just didn't like that John clearly had showed a bunch of people this voice note as a way to garner favor with the cast and I think he did, but I think they're all discounting like the, like he.

[Susie]

Yeah, for the record, like every, every interaction we've had with John has been great.

[Nick]

He's a fine guy. But I do think you need to point out that like, if you are gonna go on this show and you're gonna lean in, you don't get to just be like, oops, we could have communicated better. I was like, yo, okay, fine, you're anxiously attached. How are you gonna work on this? That so that that doesn't show up in previous next relationship. And he's like, well, I'm just going to communicate better. It's like it was just kind of giving platitudes and cliches and like, you know, like, we are protective of this show in the sense that, like, you don't want people coming on and being disingenuous. And I think there was a little, there was a little bit of, of that. I mean, you know, and the reason I want to talk about it is because, like, you know, it's like when you're hosting the reunion, like, I just want to get. We just wanted to give people a chance to speak their piece. It really wasn't the time to like to debate with them, you know, certainly ask some follow up questions. But I think everyone else, I mean, and then Chris. Chris is word salad.

[Susie]

That's my guy.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Chris.

[Nick]

What a goof.

[Susie]

He's so funny. I love him.

[Nick]

Leah was very, very, very gracious to him.

[Susie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leah. Leah deserves every single award in the world for being as cool as she is with Chris.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Susie]

Like, I don't know how she does it. She's amazing. She's incredible. I am blown away by her.

[Nick]

Well, if. If you haven't seen it yet, be sure to go watch it. It's available now on YouTube. I think you'll really enjoy it. And we'll continue. If you have any thoughts, opinions, please share it with us in the comments and maybe we'll continue to break it down next week as more and more of you consume the Age of Attraction reunion. All right, I think Carlos King is here, so let's bring him in and let's really get into the Amanda and West of it. All right.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I'm so excited.

[Nellie]

I'm so excited.

[Nick]

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[Mary]

No, it has to start with West.

[Carlos King]

What are you calling her?

[Nellie]

Well, they're calling the whole thing.

[Nick]

The streets are calling it Scamander.

[Nellie]

The scandal. Yeah, the scandal which already exists. I feel like we need something new because Scamanda is already a scandal in itself.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Outside of this, was it calling it Amanda Fall? I don't like that because it has nothing to do with Tom Sandoval. It's just a similar situation.

[Susie]

It's like Watergate. It's like, it's not like everything was Watergate, but once you have something gate, it's like, that's perfect. But actually, one of our editors, Jack and I put together a top 10 list. David Letterman style of things. We think this, this should be called. If you guys want to hear it, run through them.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I do.

[Carlos King]

So shady.

[Susie]

Which for the record, just want to say, like, love Sierra down.

[Nellie]

Yeah, I agree.

[Susie]

I ride for that girl always.

[Nellie]

We're team Sierra.

[Susie]

Team always. But anyway, these are our top 10 names for the scandal. Number 10, we have ScamandoVal Number 9, Amanda Vol. Number 8, ScameroVal Number 7, Scamanda Batula. Number 6, West Will Scam. Number 5, Scamanda Wilson. Number 4, Scammer House. Number 3, Kyle Got Cooked. Number 2, West Will. Son of a bitch. This is a scandal. And number one, someone gets Sierra gun.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Nellie]

I like number. I like to.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I think I like scammer house the best.

[Susie]

Scammer house is good.

[Nick]

I agree though, Dylan. The Duval is kind of irrelevant with. It's not.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah, it is.

[Nick]

It's tomco.

[Susie]

Feel so good to say though.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

It kind of flows off the tongue well, but it just doesn't have. Also too. One of the main reasons I got into the whole Bravo universe was because of Scandival and so I hope that more people get into the, like, summer house. So if we name it Scammer house, it's like the immediate tie.

[Mary]

I feel like west will scam works better.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I liked that.

[Nellie]

That was funny too.

[Susie]

That was a Jack Lewis original.

[Nick]

I do think it's interesting that, you know, all jokes aside, that right now most people on the Internet are calling it Scamander and that it's focused around Amanda. And I think it. Yeah, to me that like, the Internet seems to be coming more for. For Amanda than West. And I don't. I think that's. You know, Nellie and I were talking. I think that's. I feel like that's centered around, like, girl code being broken. But I It for the life of me, to me, Wes is definitely the biggest villain here in terms of. Yeah, he seemingly was most in control of, like, not letting Amanda off the hook at all because it's fucked up what she did. But, like, yeah, you could at least be like, okay, she got out of divorce and I don't know, maybe she's not thinking clearly. Where we're watching a whole season of west lead on Sierra again, which is why when we were covering this season, I told you guys, like, I don't buy this shit. Like, it doesn't feel authentic and. But yet here is a guy still, like, fucking with someone's heart where Sierra clearly was just like, yo, like, this isn't nothing to me. This is real to me. And West. West clearly stating that he was, like, in control of his feelings, where he's like, I don't want her to get hurt. Which I thought was just like a fucked up thing to say at the time. But, like, it really goes to show, like, his mindset. Anyways, there's so much to get into. Carlos, I want to. What are your just general thoughts around what's going on and what are the most interesting topics about this story that you are thinking about?

[Carlos King]

Well, look, I think universally I agree with you, right. I think Wes is kind of getting off the hook, but so we need to unpack that. The biggest thing though that I am hearing from the audience as well is the fact that girl code is something that is so sacred. Female friendships, female camaraderie. And that was something that we saw with Ciara and Amanda. It's one of those things where like girls know that guys are going to be guys and it's sort of expected for a guy to be a tool, right? For a guy to be a douche, for a guy to be an a hole. But when it comes to girls, it's one of those things where I do understand why a lot of people do feel like Amanda, you did break girl code at the. Is this as big as what happened with Ariana and you know Tom? No, because they were in a 10 year relationship and it was happening behind her back in the home. The shit was disgusting. This one is different because we were led to believe that this friendship was real. And if that's the case for you to sleep with your girl's man, despite the fact that you guys are broken up, it's Amanda is the villain, Ciara is the victim, obviously. But west definitely is sort of getting off the hook. Only because the focus has been on the betrayal.

[Nick]

Yeah, I, well, you know, and then I want to back up a little bit and discuss like I think a lot of people are talking about this joint statement, right? And there's not a lot of clarity right now. Like, are Wes and Amanda in love? Because now and I were like, they have to get married. Like the only way this feels like it's anyway makes sense is Amanda has

[Mary]

to be like, I, I know I ruined this friendship, but this was like, he is the love of my life. I'm pregnant with all of his children. We are getting married. Like it has to be in game. This can't be something that lasts two, three months. Like it can't be a situationship. It's just like you're, it's, it has to be worth it, right?

[Nick]

Because like, do we all agree that how this relationship plays out, west and Amanda, because you know, right now we're overreacting right now everyone's just like freaking out because we can't believe it's true. But like, and there's a lot of discourse about like, you know, people's character, like how could they do this? Like how did this all go down? But like you guys were breaking news. Oh, what, what, what's going on?

[Susie]

Summerhouse. This is reported by Page Six. Summerhouse star Wes Wilson was in an exclusive relationship with another woman when Amanda Betula romance was exposed.

[Carlos King]

Well, look, so, I mean it's, it's not surprised there. He's a man.

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah.

[Susie]

It is publicly referred to as Montana girl.

[Mary]

And I am sure that there will be several more that come out.

[Nick]

They'll probably more but like. Yeah, but how this. If, if they ended up getting married and have kids and lived happily forever, we would, it would be easier long term to digest. But the fact that it's looking more and more like these two made a joint statement like while being in a situationship and like not even being exclusive, it really makes it, it really gives it an icky feeling of like how careless and reckless and how much they. The mental gymnastics they had to do to justify how they moved knowing that they were gonna ultimately like fuck over Ciara. And in a way that like Carlos, I know like you've talked a lot about just like these relationships on, on tv, the inauthenticity sometimes that and things like that. But no matter what, no matter how inauthentic and how close were Amanda and Sierra? Like it's even to a co worker that was shitty because Sierra over the years, whatever you thought about her and west or whatever, what she made very clear is that like when this shit gets aired and we are all talking on the show, it's, it's really hard for her, you know, like it's like it's, it's just vulnerable to be on these shows and have people like judge your dating choices and things like that. And they played her for a fucking fool, you know, and it's just like. And she's not. But like it must just be hard to like watch your. Even if it's not your best friend, someone who like is like cool with you go behind your back and. And hook up with a guy that like you like have been vulnerable about over the years. And like I've talked about your complicated feelings about the situation and the way they moved. It seems so careless. And I just, I'm trying to wrap my brain around like how they justified it to each other, Wes and Amanda. And I also just like the big question is, is like why did, why, why the statement now?

[Carlos King]

And I want to talk, I want to unpack that. As a producer, right, who creates shows, work on shows, I, I need to explain to the public that that was strategic and there were more People involved in that statement. Right. You have publicists. Let's be clear. The network had to be involved in that too, because it is a hit show. This was rumored for over a week, approximately two to three weeks, Right. Where we were sort of led to believe that something was going on, but everybody remained quiet. That is because a lot of people from the network, the production company, the publicist, the cast, they had to reveal this story in a way that was appetizing for the show. Right. What we now know is this. I do agree with you. I think this was a situation shift. I think the joint statement was not to say we're together as one. I think they had to say we have one shot at releasing a statement and we have to be aligned with this. Immediately after that statement was released, the network said they have no intention of picking up cameras for Summer House, but it will get addressed on the reunion. We have to be reminded too, there's a spinoff starring Kyle and Amanda called in the City. Right. So this is a big machine that we all have been involved in with our various shows and that's the reason why nothing has truly been leaked. And the shot of Ciara allegedly finding this news out of. Outside of Hermes in New York City. Listen, this is all for the attention that will drive the viewership for the reunion and the spinoff.

[Nick]

Yeah. I've heard that there are receipts regarding west and Amanda and those receipts are. Have been shown, are going to be shown to Andy and it definitely will be discussed. I don't know if we'll see the receipts. I don't know if they're in a position to show us their receipts, if you know what I mean. It just might not be before television, but I believe that kind of respect, though.

[Carlos King]

Like, are there, like, photos?

[Susie]

Well, there was that rumored video.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Nellie]

Is in the City filming currently or.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I think they already filmed it. They filmed it back to back, right?

[Carlos King]

Yeah, that's already been filmed because it was filmed in the summer.

[Mary]

And is Ciara in. In the City or is she only doing Summer House?

[Carlos King]

Amanda and Kyle are sort of the, like the leads in this show.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

And Lindsay, right? Yes.

[Nellie]

It's gonna be bizarre to watch something because even watching last night's episode, knowing what's happening now, it's bizarre to watch that. So it's gonna be weird to watch a whole other series knowing that Wes and Amanda have now been together. Like, how are we gonna get through a season of not getting the tea on that?

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I'm curious, Dylan, where just as a big fan of this show and someone who's followed it. From your perspective, what are the things that you're most fascinated to discuss and learn about?

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I mean, just after watching last night's episode, especially seeing how good of a friend Ciara is to Amanda, I know through her about to get divorced, basically it just shows how good of a friend she is. And especially since they just had that conversation at that restaurant about race and, like, watching it back and how Sierra's had to deal with that and Amanda not being as sensitive now to that shows she's not as good of a friend. The thing that I think Ciara does that I've seen on the show is when she does like someone she has a hard time, you know, fully committing because she doesn't want to get hurt. And that is hard to watch because I was kind of rooting for her and west throughout this season to get back together. I mean, now she's so much better off without him. Although she's hurt now. She's gonna be getting the Ariana treatment, I think. I hope so. And I mean, she already posted, like, a brand deal yesterday or with. She was on the carpet interviewing for.

[Nellie]

Yeah.

[Susie]

With Jon Hamm.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yes.

[Susie]

Number one, Sierra defender Johnny.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

And, you know, like, perfect timing, but it's just. It's. It's. I wish if I was Sierra's friend, I would have told her earlier, like, go harder for Wes. Just, like, not that this would have changed anything, but.

[Nick]

What do you mean by go harder for Wes?

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Because she's always kind of keeping him at arm's length. And if she.

[Nick]

Thank God, just put it, like, showed her cards, but.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah, showed her cards. Not that this would have changed anything, but before this happened, I was just watching, like, oh, like, if you like him, you have to go a little bit harder for it, you know?

[Nick]

Yeah, but he was. Wes was like, when you. That's what I'm saying. Like, you watch this season back, he's just giving. Classic fuck boy, where it's just like, he likes to flirt with her. It's a fun, banty relationship. He likes. He likes that she's mean to him and stuff like that. But, like, yeah, he just treated it like it was a game, you know, like, it was like this, like. And he does this whole, like, you know, sheepish, you know, but, like, I just don't think he was never in west is, like, it was never his plan to really pursue it. And, like, then he played the whole, like, well, I really care about Sierra and I don't want to do this to her again and when for him to be able to acknowledge that there's in his mind, there's no scenario where he's going to be sad if this doesn't work out, but acknowledges that she could be like. He's acknowledging how much power he feels he has in that dynamic by saying that. And it's just like, I'm just. At what point did this relationship with Amanda start? Is like a lot of people are questioning now because a couple weeks ago when Kyle was getting drunk and he was like, fuck you, Amanda, whatever. And we all like, oh, west, way to actually stand up to Kyle. There was a moment where Amanda walked past him and he kind of like put out his hand. And I remember being like, I don't know, maybe Kyle, Amanda are not on good terms. But like, like, if a guy touched my girlfriend or wife in a caressing way, like, there. There was intimacy in that hand grab that west had with Amanda that wasn't just like some like, hold on. It was. It was a very.

[Susie]

They shared a Remy Wolf sweatshirt.

[Nick]

Yeah. And now you're going back and you're seeing a lot of people point out that there is like, there seems to be this intimacy between Wes and Amanda that we didn't clock before, which I,

[Nellie]

I kind of have forgiveness for up until now. But watching it, I was kind of like rooting for their friendship because I'm like, she needs somebody right now. Like, seeing how their relationship was so volatile. And I'm curious what Carlos's take is on this because, like, watching it back, a part of me is wondering, like, are. Do they know they're getting divorced while the season is unfolding and they're just like holding out for this season to end knowing that we've got a spin off show coming? Like, do you think there's any chance that they kind of knew that that was happening and they were just hanging on to the. Of this relationship? Or do you think I'm curious, like, how real it probably was?

[Carlos King]

Yeah, I mean, look, in order to drive viewership to a spinoff of this magnitude, you need the audience to enter it with something that they've been following. So, yeah, I think they probably did have some idea that this wasn't going to work. Let's. I mean, not going to work, let's slowly, you know, showcase the sort of end of this so that we give people reason to tune in to the spinoff and to sort of see how we're able to handle this. I definitely think that. I think, look, I think Amanda west were messing around for much longer than people are realizing. And I think this, when it comes to reality stars, especially in the Bravo universe, it is like one big college. You know what I mean? It's like one big college. There's a fraternity, there's a sorority, and then those two mix, you know, at a keg party.

[Mary]

And.

[Carlos King]

And that's why you see so many hookups, whether it's, you know, Ashley Darby hooking up with people on Summer House. And, you know, you hear all of these stories. Again, not making excuses for all of this, but I don't believe for one second that this is a real relationship. I think Kyle and Amanda, for sure, were going through something real, but I definitely think there's layers to this, because as a producer, you have to tell the story in a way that makes sense for the finale, but also for the premiere of a spinoff that is taking your two stars on this other journey.

[Nick]

Yeah, you know, we. We watched Summerhouse last night. I. It felt like I was watching a rerun from a couple years ago. It just felt so outdated with this news. Right? And, like, here we are just, like, still, like, getting into the Kyle and Amanda divorce. It already was. Like, we already knew they were divorce or separated at least. And so, yeah, it was interesting watching it back. But now we're like, now we see Amanda already in another relationship or situationship or whatever it is with west, and it's like, that can't necessarily be good for. I mean, obviously people are gonna watch Summer House, but they're not gonna be watching Summer House for the show that they made. You know, I'm curious, as a producer, how would you feel working on this show knowing that, like, yeah, I mean, we're gonna get. People are gonna watch, but no one's really gonna be paying attention to anything else other than west and Amanda.

[Carlos King]

Disagree. No. The thing is this, Nick. You have to think bigger picture, right? Summer House is a popular show, but by no stretch of the imagination is it as big as Real Housewives. Is it as big as even Vanderpump Rules. So as a producer, this is a gold mine. Because the thing is this. You have your lawyer audience that's gonna watch it regardless, but you also have millions of people who has never seen Summer House, don't know what the fuck is going on between this Sierra, Amanda west situation that is now going to tune in to be like, I don't want fomo and I am going to watch this. It's the reason why. Think about it. The statement was released the day the show was airing Hours later, they knew they had to get this off because to your point, that's so true. The episodes we're watching obviously is dated, but they also knew we have to get people hooked. I'm tell you what's gonna happen. We're all going to rewatch other seasons. Nick.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

To make sure we're caught up by the time the reunion airs. And I bet you the premiere, the reunion is going to be the highest rated ever.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I was going to make the same point that he did about them releasing the statement on the day of the show. They know it's going to get. And it's the same thing how I was saying with how I got into Vanderpump Rules with Scandival. This is going to be what pulls people into Summer House especially too with also just the more that giggly squad blows up too with Paige desorbo and Hannah Burner getting that TV show deal with Amy Poehler. It's like all this stuff they can watch from the start of how all these people are where they are now.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nellie]

So true.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Do you think that they are going back and changing their edits for the next couple of episodes before we get reunion and completely kind of show us more of west and Amanda?

[Carlos King]

I think that's a huge possibility. Because the thing is this, depending on when the reunion's going to happen, they do have enough time in post production to add things in. Let's think about it. When Dr. Wendy and Eddie were arrested, we all of a sudden started to see more scenes of Wendy talking about how much money she spent on renovating the house and hearing her daughter talk about, I got three phones, you know, so yes, I do think there's a world to where you're gonna see more of things that sort of lets us in on like the nuances that, you know, they may have found in those footages.

[Nick]

That. That's interesting you bring that up, Carlos, because honestly, for the life of me, and I guess what you mean by like, how much the network was probably involved in releasing this statement. I'm pretty sure I've heard enough people tell me that, like, I think Wes and Amanda got like PR together. Like they were. They were getting like outside help outside of the network. But like Dylan, I think you. You were mentioning it. But like Amanda also, the same day released this kind of campaign with this clothing slash weed company. Like they posted like the. More like yesterday morning they posted this, like premiered it, and then they. They replaced her. And Amanda must have known that this campaign was coming out and it I, before thinking about the network, I was like, what? In what world? Why would she not give him a heads up? Or why would they release it this day? It was almost like, did. Do you think for the, for the, for Dylan or Carlos or Susie? I'm curious, do you guys. It just seems like they didn't realize or they underestimated the potential backlash or maybe they. Because it just, it almost feels like they didn't think it was going to be that bad. I don't know. Because, like, why would you.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

That's what I think.

[Nick]

Release a campaign on the same day or the campaign.

[Nellie]

The brand is diabolical for what they did because to, to take her, to post her photo, take it down, replace her with a regular model or whoever. That was like, if I were an influencer or like Amanda or somebody like that, and somebody did that to me, like, diabolical. Like, you do not stand beside me. Like, we're not, we're never working together again. Which they're probably not working with her either. But I just thought that was such a, like, slap in the face. One thing to take it down, another thing to replace her with somebody else. I was like, or, or they knew about it and they're like, great, release it. And we have a, we have a plan as well to amp our brand up because people are talking about it. But I thought that was so diabolical to Amanda.

[Mary]

It was also like, the caption was crazy.

[Carlos King]

I, I think it was all strategic. I definitely think, because when you have a scandal this magnitude, you definitely have brands contacting your management, your publicist, saying, what the fuck is going on? You know, and everybody's telling me how to release the statement. Boom, boom, boom, boom. I do think they realize that, listen, all press is good press. What we saw when Jill Zarin made that abhorrent comment during the super bowl and how Zarin Fabrics, you know, posted a picture of Jill Zarin on their Instagram page with the X on top of it, you know, to drive the traffic. I think all of these businesses understand the power of social media. So I do agree. They knew this was coming and, and they, they were playing along with the attention that it'll drive. Because, listen, if they did not do this, we would not be talking about that brand today.

[Mary]

But it does make me, like, sick to my stomach because I feel like this is just how it works. Like, women just are always, regardless, going to get the shit end of the stick. And like, she did not commit a crime. Like, she was a shitty friend. She did a shitty thing and like, she's gonna have to live with that for the rest of her life and she's gonna have to either try to like mend her relationship with Sierra or completely lose that friendship. And like, that's something she has to live with. But to like have brands pull sponsorships, like, and then you have Dakota from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. He just got a new reality TV show.

[Nellie]

Yes.

[Mary]

And literally, how, truly, how are these two things able to coexist and happen at the same time? Like, west is not. West is going to be fine. He's gonna continue to do his podcast and do his thing and he'll be a sports journalist and he'll get his brand deals. But like opportunities are being ripped out of Amanda's hands and it's like wild to me.

[Nick]

I, I, I think, I mean that's true, but unfortunately it's just like this is a nasty business that we're in and, and the audience drives the sentiment. You know, like the fact that we're calling it Scamanda and not something that's centered around Wes tells you that the Internet thinks that Amanda'. Sandoval. And I think that's an interesting discussion. I think we can hide. I mean, I don't see a world again, to me, Amanda, you know, I, I don't know girl code, like, you know Susie or you do, and obviously that's an important thing. But like, I do have at least some grace for Amanda in the sense that like what she did, there's no justification. Like, again, it just has to be worth it. Like it's the only way. It better be worth it. Like you better marry the guy, you know, because now your character is in question of how you show up for your friends or how you don't show up for your friends.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

But you know, it's gonna be interesting to see how this plays out too because if like west, what I've heard how the season ends or continues to go on just from online stuff, is that west and Sierra do end up getting kind of together. Yeah, they start breaking up or something like that. So it's like I'm hoping that, that it changes more on west and less on Amanda. Also, what you said earlier, Nick, is give her a little bit of grace. She just got out of this 10 year roller coaster of a relationship with a guy that isn't great and she's getting back into it. What she did was shitty and messy,

[Nick]

but yeah, like in no way makes it what she did to Sierra. Okay. It's just more like to your Point Dylan. It's like you can at least be like, all right, so she hasn't been in the dating world in a while. Carlos, you know that, like this, when you're in. Once you're in this kind of reality TV bubble, like, you just become. It's like you're in high school again. You, it's. You have a hard time connecting with like, people outside of your bubble. Like, people aren't relating to your experiences. And so here you have Amanda, who's only known, like, Kyle for 10 years. It's been her whole life. And then she like, you know, befriends this kind of affable, goofy, you know, good looking, you know, six foot West. And it's just like, I do think Amanda was a little vulnerable and I think west took advantage of that vulnerability. Like, again, in no way lets her off the hook of what she did to Sierra as a friend. And like, I do think she. She's going to get a shit ton of criticism and she deserves the criticism. But to me, west was way more in control. And, and I don't see how you give him any grace because again, like now we're hearing like all these other women are coming out of the woodwork and he's just, he's just kind of. It's crazy.

[Susie]

He's a fuck boy. I think what really pisses me off about West's positioning in this is that just because he benefits from low expectations, just because he is a fuckboy does not mean he gets to treat someone, Sierra, the way he has been treating her. Of making an entire storyline on his show directed around this will they, won't they, this pining, this like, I might be in love with her kind of like, bullshit. Now that we see just to like go around and fuck with her best friend, it's like, yeah, you can have low expectations for a man because at the end of the day it's a man. But it's like there's a difference between that man being like a ro. Like, like how a man's gonna treat you in romance and like, how a man's gonna treat you as a friend. And like, you know, you really just think that someone is gonna be a better friend to you and you really, obviously you expect better from Amanda and that's why Amanda's getting all the heat in this. But it's like, west, like, get fucked. Honestly, like, are you kidding me?

[Nellie]

For tv.

[Susie]

You see how she gets treated on the show. You see how the audience treats her. You see the conversations around it and you still, go ahead and do that because your clout is more important than your friendship with her. And it's pisses me off.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah. I mean, the beginning of every season too is west in the car up to the Hamptons being like, well, we haven't talked in a few months, but like, I really like her. And it's like, well, if this was real and you really did have those true feelings, you do it off the show too. I mean, as a normal human.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Susie]

You know, be a person.

[Nellie]

Right.

[Nick]

But what is interesting, because I've seen people, you know, like, everyone's having this discourse about, like, how does this compare to Scandival? And then you had other people wanting to downplay all of it because it's like, like if you're like an OG reality TV fan, like, and you watch Vanderpump from the beginning, you saw Kristen Doty and Jax hookup when Jax was. Was dating Stassi. But like, what, what made Scandival so intense and garnered all these people's interest in why I think Summer House does the same is like, we're talking about adults, we're talking about 30 something year olds. Like, we're not talking about like 21, 20 year, 22 year old messy people. If you guys go turn on Southern hospitality right now, they're doing this shit on the regular. You know, it's like, it's, it's a different cast, it's a different, amazing. It's like, it's a really good show. If you're, if you're not watching, you should, you should watch. But like, we're talking about a group of people who should be above this type of really sloppy behavior and they should be more considerate with these, like, relationships and friendships and the, you know, like, when you get older, you realize that like, you know, real friends are hard to come by and you value that more. And so the fact that you have this going on with people who are in their early 30s, I think that's what's so like, fascinating for a lot of people because you expect more from these people, you know?

[Carlos King]

Yeah. And that's the reason why we always have to look at this through the lens of they're in a bubble. And that's why it's not normal for the average human to sleep with their girl's man. It's just. Does it happen? Sure. But not at the volume to where you're seeing it. And I wanted to get back to what Natalie was saying too, because it is a big point of contention on TikTok. When it comes to how women are being dragged for making this mistake. We saw it with Rachel. Rachel hasn't worked since. Right. Tom Sandoval did a Fox, you know, competition show, and he also was on the House of Villains and Traitors. You know, I was watching this Oprah interview with the whole. Yeah. The whole Coldplay scandal. And the woman said how she got fired, the company asked her to leave, and she understood that, but she hasn't worked since the Coldplay scandal. However, the guy has been offered four jobs. And it's. And it's really, to me, a study of. And the woman, the Coldplay scandalous woman. She said how she had no idea how much women hated other women in this scenario. And I do think there is something to be said about how women are treated differently when it comes to a scandal of extramarital affairs or any sort of, like, scandal like this. Opposed to men. Wes is going to work, and it's going to be seen as a hot guy on the COVID gq.

[Nick]

Yeah. Maybe it's because we just expect so little of them. Of men or West.

[Susie]

Yeah. He benefits from low expectation. It's like the whole idea of weaponized incompetence with men. It's like, that's what west is doing, but with his heart. And it's just like. That's not an excuse. No, that is not an excuse to treat people poorly.

[Nick]

I saw someone tweet about this, and I totally remember two reunions ago when the first in west sincere drama happened.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And west kind of clammed up, like, very sheepish. He almost, like, didn't know what to say, had nothing to say. It was kind of awkward. And so much so that he had to address it post reunion. Like, what is he gonna say now at this reunion?

[Susie]

Like, well, he can have Amanda speak for him and make a joint statement.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah. Or he. But he. He does that all the time. I mean, even on last night's episode, when he's talking to Kyle and confronting them at the table, he can't look him in the eyes. He's always just looking down. He's always trying to do what he thinks is the right thing and very, I think, aware of how the audience will perceive. Interesting him. That's my take on it.

[Nick]

He does spend a lot of time on those outfits. I'm curious. Dylan, Carlos and Susie and Mary. This is just the beginning of how we dissect this drama and how we go back and what we question, you know, all these people's motives. So, like, big question is, when did this Start. How long has this been going on? We all suspect much longer than we realize. Not too long ago, west started posting some political takes, which I thought was new for him, you know, And I remember saying to the team, I go, it feels performative to me. We live in a culture now that if people agree with us on certain topics, we. We will like, we will go to the ends of the earth to try to justify the behavior because we consider them like an ally. A literal ally.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

And morally good. Yeah.

[Nick]

And it just makes you kind of wonder, why did this guy a couple months ago, start like, spouting off his. His. His political point of view when you never heard it from him before? I don't. You know, maybe. Maybe that's a coincidence. I don't know.

[Carlos King]

It's not a comedy there, I think it's just that. I think, listen, we have to understand. Wes is not alone in his home like the average citizen. He has a team. They all knew this was going to come out weeks before it came out yesterday. So all of that is a part of the strategy in terms of. Do I believe he believes that? Sure. But why all of a sudden are you now using your platform to address that? Because the thing was this. They knew that they had to do whatever it takes to make it seem like he's a good guy that made a bad mistake.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

And that's the narrative that he and his team want to give us. Yep.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Susie]

Yeah. And it's just like, I'm curious how Amanda's gonna. Carlos, I would be interested your take on, like, how Amanda is gonna go forward playing this because it's like, she doesn't have the same. Like, people are gonna forgive Wes because they expect that from him. And we've obviously talked about, like, the misogyny going into the way Amanda's being treated, but it's like she still is on Bravo. It's not like a Raquel situation where she's just gonna kind of, like, go away. And she wasn't even that big of a fixture in Vanderpump in the same way that, like, Ariana and Sandoval were. I'm curious, like, where does Amanda go from here?

[Carlos King]

Well, the thing is this. Her reputation is stained for quite a bit. I'm just gonna, like, lay it out. The harsh reality for Amanda is this. It's going to be a couple of years before people really start to see you outside of this scandal. The best thing that she should do. And this is what I tell my reality stars when they're caught up in a Scandal. She has to own it. She has to own it. She has to let us in on what went into this. If she kept this a secret from Ciara for so long and was doing this behind her back, that's fucked up. But she has to own it. There's nothing worse than people making excuses. You know, again, not to bring up Jill Zarin again, but for Jill Zarin to say, well, damn, y' all didn't give me a chance to apologize. It's like, excuse me, you recorded it, hit upload, made a caption, and hit it like, I'm sorry. We're not giving you grace to make an apology. So I think for Amanda, look, I have never seen a woman go through this that came out of it unscathed within two years. It's gonna take more than two years, unfortunately for her.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

The reunion too, I think is gonna be worse on Amanda than Wes, because Sierra's gonna be like, I'm not surprised by you. Like, you. She's gonna be way more hurt by her friendship. Cause Amanda has overall a pretty clean slate, I think, from her time on Summer House. I mean, she's put up with. With Kyle, but I don't know, at least from what I remember, she's always had, like. She's come off pretty well.

[Nellie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a big way to go.

[Nick]

Unfortunately for Amanda, to all your points, is that Amanda is just guilty of doing some of the most triggering things that, like, women can do to other women, you know?

[Nellie]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Nick]

And whether, you know, we can sit here and say, like, west deserves way more attention and criticism, but, you know, the. The snake in the grass kind of vibes you feel, you know. Yeah, it's. It's. It's. It's a bummer because. Yeah. Because you. You imagine Wes, you know, if you're Sierra, you don't even want to validate your feelings towards West. Right. Like, and I will say, like, I think what's. I don't say nice about the scandal, but, like, this is not Taylor, Frankie, Paul, bachelorette scandal in the sense that, like, honestly, as fascinated as we are, it's hard to talk about. They're like, there's kids involved. There's some. Like, there's some people really struggling with some mental health problems. We're worried about the parties involved. You know, there's a clear hierarchy of, like, who were who. We have empathy for. Sierra who we're rooting for, Sierra, who were. You know, we're kind of debating the west in Amanda of who deserves More criticism. No one really cares about Kyle right now.

[Susie]

He's DJing, he's fine.

[Nick]

the same time, Sierra's already out there living her best life. You know, she did that Friends and neighbor premiere. It was this iconic moment. We're all rooting for her to have Ariana Maddox treatment. We imagine she's going to. Her star is about to blow up. And so, like, we, we can have sympathy for her, but no, at the end of the day, she's gonna be okay. And I think we're all kind of rooting for her to be unbothered. Yeah. When it comes, you know, because it's one of those moments where you, like, you. You fuck around with someone, you don't know why, you keep giving him attention. And then something happens when you go, you know, what. What the fuck was I doing? Like, what am I. This is. This. I. I should have known better. Now I see it fucking clearly. But with the Amanda of it all, there's just so much more for to see her unpacked. And you're. I kind of. I agree with you guys. I think she. It's just like, it's. It's just going to make more sense for her to be harder on Amanda because, like, why give west that attention?

[Susie]

Yeah. I also just. I really feel for Sierra because it's like, obviously she's. She is going to be okay.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

This is going to be a blessing in disguise at the end of the day.

[Susie]

Yeah. And as far as her care is concerned, this is the best thing that could happen as far as her heart is concerned. Like, I just. Listen, I, like, I think a lot of us have been in situations, obviously not on tv, but like, you know, your friends don't show up for you in the way you want to in those situations and you get fucked over. And it's just like for Sierra to be kind of stuck in this world where she's still working with them, she starts to see them, she starts to, like, you know, have chemistry with all of these people. You know, it's not going away. She can't go away from it. She has the off season, thank God, to kind of like, process this, but it's like she's coming right back and just has to like, go back into this environment and there's nowhere for her to go. And I just like, you know, Amanda was like an emotionally safe person for her in that house, and it just like.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah.

[Susie]

It just sucks that she doesn't have that anymore.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Susie]

And my heart goes out to her for that.

[Nellie]

I think Nick made a really good point about.

[Susie]

He said something.

[Nellie]

You said something about how Amanda did the one thing that kind of triggers people. And I feel like what you're saying as well, how as viewers, like, you become so emotionally invested while watching, because I think so many of us have been in that position where you like somebody and they lead you on a little bit, but they're actually never taking you serious. And to be betrayed by somebody that has been there for you, shown up for you during that time and kind of been like the pat on the back, like, it's gonna be okay, you don't deserve or, you know, supporting you, and then that person betrays you. I mean, it is a very, like, unique scenario, but also, like, so common. And it's like the most volatile feeling when you're experiencing it. And the hatred and, like, the disgust you feel for, honestly not the person who's been the guy, or, you know, in my case, it would be, like, the guy. Like, you kind of expect it. You're like. You're a douchebag. I don't know why I was so into you, but, like, you're my friend, and you were, like, petting my head when I was crying drunk on the bathroom floor about it.

[Susie]

Like, it's like you're mourning the friendship, not the like. Like, crush.

[Mary]

Right?

[Nellie]

Exactly.

[Nick]

Yeah. It reminds me of the thing I say all the time. Like, when it comes to loyalty, loyalty is one of those things that everyone says they are, you know, like, are you loyal? They're like, oh, of course. Of course I'm loyal. Like, why wouldn't you. Why wouldn't I be loyal? But as you get older, you learn that there's very few people in your life that you can assume they're loyal to you. Like, they're loyal to you until, like, it's a conflict of interest. Like, they're loyal to you until you, like the same person. They're loyal to you until it's just like, well, you know, like, I can't support this type of behavior, you know, whatever it is. It's just so easy for people, for us to justify why we shouldn't be loyal in this moment. And usually that comes down to, like, you know, different agendas or, you know, when our interests don't align anymore. And I think this is a perfect example of, like, why loyalty is far rarer than people, like, recognize.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I think Sierra's intuition is really strong, too, overall, which is why she kept west at the arm's length. And, you know, she never would have seen this Coming from Amanda. So.

[Nellie]

Oh, my gosh. To have someone pull. Pull one over on you. Like, when I. I think back to the last time I was cheated on, which was several years ago, but it was. It came at such a shock. But this is very similar where I agree, unless Sierra knew. But I. I agree. I don't think she saw it coming. But to have somebody literally pull one over on you, it is such a disorienting experience and it makes you question your own, like, ability to read a situation. And coming from a friend, it feels so much worse than coming from a situationship. I don't. I don't know why, but it's, like, so much more painful and scary.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

You know, your friends are supposed to be forever. These guys, you know, are kind of come and go.

[Nick]

Who do you think made the first move?

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I think west.

[Nellie]

I think west.

[Carlos King]

West for sure. Yeah.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I don't. I think west, like, knew that she needs a nice guy in the moment. And Amanda got, like, the nice attention that, you know, she's been craving that Kyle was not giving her. And that's also why I, like I said, give Amanda a little bit of grace. I think she's getting played a little bit.

[Nellie]

Yeah, you're right to hear that he's

[Nick]

in a relationship when you say it like that. Wes had a front row seat to, like, seeing what Amanda needed to feel comfort and support and validation.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

He was chasing after her, like the last couple episodes when Kyle yelled at her.

[Nick]

And so for this to go down this way, it kind of. It's like, it's more. It gets ickier and ickier the more you think about it. Because again, not okay that Amanda, from whatever she said to Sierra behind, either on camera or interviews or behind closed doors, that made Sierra feel like Amanda was a friend she could trust. That's fucked up. And she's going to have to, like, deal with that. But if. If this is like Wes making the first move and he has a front row seat to, like, how Amanda needs comfort and he gives her that comfort in a way that, like, crosses a line of intimacy, only for Amanda to be left as the one who's the most vilified and he kind of gets away kind of clean. It's. Yeah. You know, I doubt you're gonna have a lot of men come forward. Being like, I was also hooking up with Amanda when this was going on, like we're hearing about.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I don't think she played.

[Nellie]

Yeah. Is there an opportunity to give a little bit of sympathy for Kyle in this Moment.

[Susie]

Sure.

[Nellie]

I think there is a part of me, I think I was like. I don't know if I was hard on him a few episodes back, but watching it, I was like, he's such a dick. And like, I don't. I didn't actually say that, but I think that was, like, the sentiment of, like, yeah, of course Amanda's acting this way, like, you've been treating her so poorly, blah, blah, blah. But honestly, seeing last night's episode and hearing the stressor of, like, millions of dollars on the line. I've never had millions of dollars up against my name. And not that it's. It ever justifies treating your partner poorly, but I think we've all, like, I know that I've been in a situation where I've had high stress and I've, like, taken it out my parents. And I feel so guilty and so awful afterwards because I'm like, you don't understand. And you just, like, you get a little bit sassy or whatever. But I can't imagine being in his position. I'm not justifying how he's treated her, but I do feel like he's, like, completely out of the conversation. And I. I do have, like, a. A lot of, like, sympathy and empathy for him. After hearing the financial stresses of lover boy and now hearing, like, it is. That is his wife. Like, that is his ex wife that is hooking up with one of his best friends. And that also is very heavy along with everything going on with Loverboy.

[Nick]

What do you think, Dylan?

[Dylan Nalbandian]

My thought on it, I think everyone deserves, like, respect. So I feel for Kyle in the moment. If he hadn't had all these rumors about him cheating with. On Amanda, like, I would have a little more sympathy for him. I also think Kyle's out of the conversation because he hasn't said anything. I think it takes. If he wants to start playing into it, I think he would be more involved. But I do understand what you're saying as well. I just. Kyle is his own worst enemy.

[Nick]

Yeah, I agree with that, Dylan, to the extent that, like, as it stands now, from what we know from watching the show or what they've said or not said, I'm not, like, out there being like, how's Kyle? I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And, like, yes. You know, like, I'm worried now if there's more to the story.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Nick]

That Kyle adds context to. It's not going to make what he said okay, but it might. There might be a lane where you're like, oh, well, I. Fuck. Yeah. I mean, like, yeah, everyone has their limit, you know, type of thing, you know, and, you know, like, so I saw a tweet basically saying something like, oh, Kyle saying fuck you to Amanda after, like, she chose to, like, keep hanging out with Wes that night. Like, hits different now and now again, like, if Kyle was expecting something else going on then, and maybe they. If they were hooking up then, like, literally behind his back and in front of his face, I guess, then maybe. But I don't think it would be smart for Kyle to in any way justify his behavior as a. I agree. As a result of. Of what Manda did or didn't do.

[Susie]

Yeah, Yeah. I. I mean, I feel for Kyle in the way that he's about to be a level of divorced guy that we have not seen on Bravo in a minute. If it was me producing Kyle Cook, I would say lean into that because, like, he needs to be DJing Steely Dan. He needs to be, like. He needs to be less like, club guy and more just like, well, the consequences of my actions. Darn, let's keep going. Like, that's. I think that's how, like, Kyle wins back. Kind of like some sort of public sort of empathy. Yeah. It's just being like, yeah, yeah.

[Carlos King]

No, this. Listen, this is the best thing that could happen for Kyle. Yeah, yeah. Because Kyle has a big opportunity to change the narrative in terms of how he's viewed and to have this sort of. I hate to say the word, but to have this gem fall into his lap in order to now take this and sort of, like, appear to the audience as a man who is owning his mistakes and what he did and what would make him win. Honestly, if I was Kyle's producer, and this will shock the world, I would encourage him to sit down with Amanda and to give her grace. Like, that would shock everybody. You expect him to be upset and angry, but I think if he says, I wasn't the best man for you, and perhaps in your need of support, this man took advantage of you. Not, of course, sexually. Right. But just took advantage of your emotional state. If he's able to sort of articulate it that way and take ownership there, I think Kyle has a lot of room to be viewed as the audience, as somebody that they will support.

[Nick]

Yeah, well, and I think he's maybe already starting to do that because he was on Watch what Happens Live not too long ago, and Andy asked him straight up, do you believe these rumors? And Kyle was like, I don't think they're true. And then Andy's like, but if they're tr. How, like, what will you think? And basically, Kyle said, like, you know, I'll support Amanda.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, he's.

[Nick]

He's already kind of following your advice, Carlos, so I think that's probably.

[Carlos King]

Hey, he listens to reality with the King, too.

[Nick]

There you go.

[Nellie]

Yeah, he's a raindrop.

[Nick]

I did see something I thought was hilarious. The butterfly effect of Kyle Cook's DJ career. Because, like, they probably get divorced anyways, but if he doesn't become a DJ and he, like, changed his course and decides to become a good husband like this, this scandal might not ever happen, you know?

[Susie]

Yeah, yeah, it is like. It is. There is a thing with Kyle where it's like, yeah, this is kind of like the concept. Like, he basically. You kind of see it in the show. Maybe it's the edit, but it seems a little bit like he's kind of like, driving Amanda into West's arms.

[Nellie]

That's so true.

[Susie]

Because Jesse's busy.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I will say, out of all this, I'm just happy it isn't Jesse, because I couldn't do more of the Jesse. I see him enough on the TV that if this was the scandal and he would be writing songs, it would just be, like, maybe too much.

[Susie]

He would be in the studio. I saw a tweet that was like, jesse Solomon, you need to get out of the studio and in with Amanda. So Sierra can.

[Nick]

I saw something that said at least Jesse asked permission.

[Nellie]

I saw that too.

[Susie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, it's just like. Like, I just hope Sierra can come out of this being like, fuck these people. You guys are not my true friends, obviously. Like, I am a person. I am not just a prop. For you guys to, like, have all of your situationships around is kind of what it feels like. And she just deserves so much better than that from people who care about her.

[Nick]

And that's the tough position she's in. Right. She is a character on this show. It's part of her job to kind of lean into these narratives. You know, again, like, we talked about it with to Taylor, Frankie, Paul. Like, there's. You know, there's sometimes things that as reality TV stars, we're like, you know, fuck it. I. Fine, sure, I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll take it for the fucking team. I know I'm gonna get a little bit of heat. I wouldn't normally do this. You know, this is not who I am, but I'll fucking do it. And for the most part, it's mostly inconsequential. Right. But to the degree that Sierra has been a team player only for this to result in her being played and, you know, she's not a fool, but, like, I think people made her out to potentially, I'm sure she feels that way right now where she feels like she should have known better. She feels like she should have not trusted certain people and that just. You feel like that ego, it's. That it feels foolish. Right. And like, we've. We've heard from Sierra in the past about, like, what bothers her, and she is, like, rightfully, like, she has a lot of pride in how she carries herself, you know, and how she moves. Right. And I, you know, it. The thing that she seemed most upset about Wes in the past is, like, how he went out in the public and, like, spoke on her name in a way that was just like, I don't do that to my friends. Right. And so I feel like the people she's calls friends or even her co workers are moving in a way that she doesn't move. And she's communicated like, that's not how I roll. And it's like they haven't respected how she's communicated that. And now she probably feels like, like foolish for trusting these people in a way that, like, we would all feel foolish if we were in her position.

[Carlos King]

Yeah. And that's what makes her so relatable. Listen, Ciara deserves, if not more, the same success Ariana got. Right. Because, you know, the thing is she spoke about race recently on the show and really, you know, was honest about her experience with the cast and how the Bravo audience, which we all have experienced, the Bravo fan base, good or bad. Right. They are extremely opinionated and they won't stop until they feel like they got your attention. So she has suffered through a lot of emotional turmoil outside of this scandal. Right. She was already going through something that we saw on the show, and that's the reason why, for me, she deserves so much success in the sense of she has the ability to truly tell a story not only of girl code, not only of douchebag guys, but also being a black woman on reality television and how the audience perceives you and then to deal with this, you know. So my hope for her is the fact that she's able to really take this and really make something out of this and be a spokesperson, get brand deals, be a brand ambassador. She's gorgeous to look at. She's. She's so smart. And I just think she has the ability to really be one of the mainstays on the network.

[Nick]

Yeah, no, I, I agree, agree with all that. It is crazy that you already start seeing the Internet trying to justify how to minimize Sierra being upset. You know, it's just like, oh, well, like whatever they dated three years ago or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like that's kind of fucked up. But yeah, I think, I think she is going to be a huge star. I, I think this will. And, and that is because she obviously has the qualities of, of a star. Right. And like Carlos, you know, there's a lot of people who have star qualities. It just doesn't work. It doesn't pop for them. Right. You know, like sometimes it's a little bit of luck, it's a little bit of timing, and then at the end of the day you have, you have to have the talent.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

She also know who she is.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's just easy to root for. Dylan, I'm curious, what, what are some of the things as we. I'm sure this will all continue to talk about this. The reunion's coming up, but what are some of the things that you're most curious in learning more about as this story unfolds?

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I mean, definitely seeing how they do edit west and Amanda for the rest of the season. I was gonna say earlier, like they kind of set it up to make it look like Ben was gonna be the one that was to sweep Amanda off her feet. And obviously that isn't the case. And now we're seeing Sabrina who just kind of is the girl that I think he was always on. Like, I think they were already talking and he kind of played it to the camera that he was single. That's my opinion. But I do think just if more gets revealed of when west and Amanda really got together could play a big role in how the long term effects of Amanda especially. I mean, I want west to get more of the bad rap from this, but is it gonna happen? I don't know. For Ciara, this is kind of jumping ahead a little bit. I know there's been a lot of discussion at who's gonna be the next Bachelorette and I think this could be a possible slam dunk. Yeah, I mean, they were. I know Mara Higgins has been in talks about it, but I think Ciara would be the perfect person because she just seems to be level headed and I think to be a lead you have to. I mean, you see what happened when you had Taylor, Frankie, Paul and. And I don't know if they're going to take another risk like that. Now, I don't know if ABC and

[Nick]

Bravo would tie, but there's no way.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

No, you don't think so?

[Carlos King]

I was going to say the same thing.

[Nick]

Bravo is not. NBC is not like that. Like, right now, Sierra is there. I mean, she is so valuable to them right now.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

As a viewer, I want to see it.

[Nick]

Yeah, no, like, that's the thing. It's fascinating as fans that think about it. But then we get into the contract, Sierra's contracts with NBC. They have the rights to her. They would have to give, you know, Disney the permission.

[Nellie]

Crazy.

[Nick]

Also, like, to be honest, if you're Sierra, like, you don't need that shit. What you want to. You want.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

No, she does.

[Nick]

You want a bunch of casting directors cast a bunch of, like, fucking guys for her that, like, maybe she's into a couple and then have to deal with the nastiness that is Bachelor Nation? Like, that's the last thing I want for Sierra. I know. As fans, I think she would be a fantastic bachelorette. You mean, honestly, like, what. You know, about what we love about our bachelorettes? Like, Sierra would be fantastic, but, like, there's just no world in which that water could happen. And honestly, I wouldn't want that for Sierra. I. She doesn't need it. I don't think they're going to be casting people at her level, you know?

[Susie]

And, yeah, I think that Sierra should host a reality show where it's a bunch of, like, douchebag guys getting their comeuppance. Maybe it's pies in the face. Maybe it's like they have to publicly embarrass themselves. You know, it's like people that have gotten called out for cheating. Maybe it's other reality stars, and that's. And they have to compete for redemption. And Sierra. That's my pitch.

[Nellie]

Sick and twisted. I like it.

[Susie]

Peacock, come talk to me.

[Nick]

It would. You know, it is fascinating to think about how much if Amanda did and if. If it was Ben she hooked up with, we would be celebrating.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah, I know.

[Nick]

And it's like, makes you just wonder, like, what was, like, that's the thing. Was it worth it? Like, I mean, I'm not trying to, like, bash on west here, but, like, why of all the people, like, that was the one person that was. This was gonna blow up in your face?

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I don't think. I really don't think they saw how

[Nellie]

bad it would be.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nellie]

I'm curious if their friendship really was that special. Like, devil's advocate, I'm like he really was showing up for her. At least in this season from what I'm seeing. He was that person that was always kind of sticking up for her, being there for her and if she was vulnerable, I can see how that would be really confusing if you're finally coming out of something that's super bad for you, really toxic. You've been struggling for years and then you're like, here's this. If it weren't your husband's also good friend, I could see how you would fall into that trap of like, well he's my guy best friend and like he's always been there for me. Like maybe he's the one now knowing that he's been seeing other people. I mean, I think you look like a dummy.

[Nick]

Clearly safely assume these people were not, not as close as they let on in real life. These were, you don't, this was show business, not show friends. I think, I don't, I, I just, maybe I again they are friends, they're also co workers and I, all I'm saying is like I think this is such a crazy, I mean the fact it's just like these are adults who are like wife swapping. I mean you just like not since high school have I been like, you know what, maybe I find my, my buddy's. Exactly. It's like that's, it's such a high school thing to do.

[Nellie]

Yeah, that's so true.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

And it's just like, especially when you live in New York City.

[Mary]

Right?

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Right. And again so like you clearly Amanda and West had to do these like mental gymnastics to justify it. Right. And while I'm sure they're friends at some point they had been like, well I mean it's like, you know, I only see Kyle when we film like, you know, they must have sold themselves on the passion or the, I don't know, whatever they felt by the wrongness of it all. And then they had to been like, you know, like maybe Amanda was like, you know, I'm friends with Ciara through Paige. You know, like it's, they're just not as close as I think we believed.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

Yeah, I, I, I feel that way too. I mean it is very much like it's giving a co worker situation. The only thing that now though I do question is just Ciera seems to know a lot about the relationship of Kyle and Amanda with which I think they're only getting told off camera when they hang out in the city because we never see Amanda and Sierra really talk in depth about. So I think they became friends through the show. But maybe Amanda also just didn't value that friendship the same. I mean, clearly she didn't, but Sierra, I do think really valued Amanda's friendship.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, we're just at the beginning of this and there will be so much time. Carlos, Dylan, I want to thank you guys for joining us. Carlos, especially you for jumping on last minute. Dylan, it was great to have you on. Please, please come back as whether it's talking housewives or even more about Scamander or whatever we decide to call it, I do apologize. Nellie had to step out. I. I'm honestly not entirely sure. But I think she got some bad family news, so keep her in your. In your thoughts. I appreciate you guys coming on. Susie, as always. Mary, it's great to be with you guys. Dylan and Carlos, before we let you go, can you guys let my audience know where they can find you and enjoy all the great content that you're making?

[Dylan Nalbandian]

You can find me on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube all Dylan Nalbandian. I post funny little skits and sketches.

[Nick]

And how about you, Carlos?

[Carlos King]

Yes, you can find my podcast Reality with the King on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast, my YouTube channel as well. And I'm on all social media platforms at TheCarlos King.

[Nick]

Well, I appreciate you guys. Thanks for having this very interesting conversation, and I'm glad we had the two of you to help help us with this. We'll appreciate you all listening as well. Don't forget to check out Vile files. Plus, if you haven't already, we will certainly be diving even more deep into Commander or whatever the we're going to call it. We will see you next week. Bye. Bye. Awkward time to ask this, but. Hey, did you download the trail map?

[Susie]

Yeah, No, I don't need to.

[Dylan Nalbandian]

I. I don't understand.

[Nick]

You're trusting your signal out here?

[Susie]

I'm trusting T Mobile. They have the best network. And if we end up in bumtots nowhere, well, we've got T Satellite for backup.

[Carlos King]

Whoa.

[Nick]

I don't trust my carrier that much.

[Susie]

We'll just use. Use your phone as a flashlight.

[Nick]

With America's best network and T Satellite, we're keeping you connected in places you never thought possible. And if you switch today, you get free phones for zero down and only 25 bucks a month per line for four lines. Find out more@t mobile.com or visit your local store.

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[Nick]

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[Carlos King]

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[Nick]

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