E1105 - Scamanda w/ NY Mag's Rebecca Jennings, Dakota Cut, Jessi Draper Rogue & HW w/ Cynthia Bailey

Summary

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The Viall Files — Episode E1105

Scamanda w/ NY Mag's Rebecca Jennings, Dakota Cut, Jessi Draper Rogue & HW w/ Cynthia Bailey

Date: April 7, 2026
Host: Nick Viall (with Natalie Joy, the Household, Cynthia Bailey, Miguel Luciano, and guest Rebecca Jennings)

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Episode Overview

This Reality Recap edition takes a deep dive into one of Bravo's juiciest scandals—dubbed "Scamanda" or "Westgate"—surrounding the Summer House love triangle. Nick and crew meticulously break down the layers of betrayal and speculation amongst Amanda, West, and Ciara, joined by New York Magazine's Rebecca Jennings for journalist-level insight. The crew also pivots to the tumultuous world of Mormon Wives drama, explores the fallout from Dakota being cut from Vanderpump Villa, and closes with an in-depth look at the new season of Real Housewives of Atlanta with Cynthia Bailey and celebrated Bravo impersonator Miguel Luciano.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Summer House Scandal: Scamanda / Westgate

Breaking Down the Drama

Timestamps: 02:05–56:58

• Nick, Natalie, Sierra, and the Household analyze the explosive Summer House controversy: Amanda’s alleged affair with West and the betrayal of her friend, Ciara.
• Name Games: Multiple monikers emerge for the scandal—“Scamanda” (Amanda + scam) and “Westgate” (a Watergate nod), noting how the victim or villain is reflected in the naming (29:11).
• Timeline & Rumors:
  • Sierra recounts her initial skepticism, saying she was in denial until the vague joint statement from Amanda and West—“It was a douche pimples… you didn’t address any of the things that mattered.” (08:40)
  • A video allegedly shows Amanda and West being intimate in West’s apartment. Questions arise about how the video was obtained, potential hired PIs, and what role it played in them putting out a statement (13:31).

Receipts and Social Fallout

• Sierra speculates about Amanda and West’s timeline, suspecting overlap between Amanda’s marriage and the budding romance with West. “I think there might have been some overlap… Amanda didn’t give that she was going to be leaving that marriage anytime soon.” (11:17)
• Tabloid reporting and “Bravo geek squad” sleuthing—the community parses hot mic moments, body language, and wardrobe crossovers for clues of infidelity and deceit (12:08).

Consequences & Public Reaction

• Amanda is facing harsh criticism, losing friendships and alleged brand deals, while West has gained tens of thousands of followers (23:52).
• The gendered nature of condemnation is noted, with Amanda taking the brunt of the criticism. “The fact that Amanda and West put out this joint statement together, not even confirming a relationship — bonkers. Right?” (16:52)
• Debate on proportional punishment: “She’s lost friends, 100k in deals, and gets roasted online–that’s probably enough suffering.” (42:47)

Relatability as Fuel

• Rebecca Jennings observes, “What makes this so sticky is how relatable it is… These are friendship dynamics everyone has seen. Cheating happens. Friendships feel more sacred than some of these relationships.” (39:11)
• Nick adds that the audience’s investment comes from having “all been wrapped up in some kind of relationship drama that has hints of this.” (40:48)
• The perceived betrayal is heightened by the show’s longstanding focus on female friendships as the crux of rooting interests. (30:39)

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2. Mormon Wives & Dakota Cut Fallout

Timestamps: 61:51–69:58

• Mormon Wives Scandal: Taylor Frankie Paul leaves the Mormon church; Dakota is edited out of Vanderpump Villa, setting speculation on the fate of ongoing and upcoming reality projects (63:21).
• Noted contrast with Summer House drama: Mormon Wives addresses much heavier, sometimes criminal content, yet lacks the “relatability” that fuels Scamanda/Westgate’s pop culture grip (64:17).
• Jessi Draper’s Antics: The cast continues content creation and drama, possibly jockeying for post-Taylor stardom. “Jessi’s determined... I think Jesse is sort of auditioning to be the new Taylor.” (67:40)
• Familiarity and isolation in casting: Many reality stars gravitate to dating within their circles, compounding already insular drama and making for inexhaustible content (68:03).

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3. Reality TV Ethics & Industry Commentary

• Punishment vs. Entertainment:
  • The group debates whether audiences expect moral penance from reality stars, even while demanding more drama (“This is boring!” vs. “How could you!”). (44:51)
• Post-Scandal Careers:
  • Should canceled stars get new opportunities? Rebecca: “Put them on Traitors—always put people on Traitors. If you can put Tom Sandoval on Traitors, Amanda and West certainly qualify.” (45:23)
  • The current power dynamic has shifted, giving stars more leverage to refuse filming (46:06).

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4. Real Housewives Recap with Cynthia Bailey & Miguel Luciano

Timestamps: 76:26–131:59

Real Housewives of Atlanta—Season 17 Preview

• Cynthia Bailey (OG) celebrates the addition of K. Michelle (“authentic”) and Pinky Cole (“feisty”), along with the return of Phaedra, Portia, and others (76:56).
• Preview of dramatic conflicts: Drew Sedora’s FaceTime date (“He was there the whole time. He may have still been there when I left. Wild.” – Cynthia, 79:26); villain arcs kicking off (“Shamia has self-proclaimed that she is in her villain era.” 81:40).
• The unresolved rift between Portia and Shamia is expected to escalate (“It gets really, really, really, really, really bad.” – Cynthia, 83:28).

Cynthia’s Unfiltered Take on Summer House Drama

• Sides with Ciara, identifying Amanda’s betrayal as “really foul.” Says the Atlanta cast would “definitely handle it—face to face. Atlanta’s a different beast.” (85:39, 87:39)

Housewives Impressions & Franchise Breakdown (w/ Miguel)

• Praise for Atlanta’s humor and depth: “Atlanta’s different. Real, dynamic, and always goes for the juggler! Not everyone’s built for it.” (91:06)
• K. Michelle and Pinky Cole bring welcome “quirky” and “whimsical” energy. Angela Oakley is admired as a potential new “center peach.” (96:07)
• Real Housewives of Rhode Island skews much younger, blending strong personalities with intertwined histories for “potential Grey Gardens energy.” (99:07, 106:11)

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5. Beverly Hills & Amanda’s Arc

• Dorit’s Spending and Storylines: Debate over whether Dorit paid for her own extravagant book photo shoot—even as her divorce looms (108:37).
  “If she did pay for that photo shoot, she definitely is bad at money.” – Nick (125:15)
• Amanda’s Perception: Discussion on Amanda’s unapologetic happiness and why viewers may bristle at her lack of overt struggle or humility. “Her stance on abundance and freedom? I don’t need someone to suffer so they can earn their joy.” – Miguel (124:18)
• Kyle & Dorit’s Fractured Friendship: Speculation that deep-rooted tensions and alliances—not onscreen fights—are driving much of the drama (116:44).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the joint statement:
  Sierra: “It was a douche pimples… you didn’t address any of the things that mattered.” (08:40)
• On Amanda’s choices:
  Sierra: “You didn’t give that you were going to be leaving that marriage anytime soon. The only thing that could prompt you to move would be someone else.” (11:17)
• On the PI rumor:
  Nick: “Hiring a PI feels like some of the most like, rich person drama I've ever… Only in movies and tv shows.” (15:02)
• On Bravo’s gendered reactions:
  Nick: “Amanda is losing brand deals, while West has gained 50k followers. That’s nuts.” (23:56)
• On relatability:
  Rebecca Jennings: “Cheating happens. This story is juicy because everyone watching can see themselves in it in some way.” (39:11)
• On reality TV ethics:
  Miguel: “It's never about the lateness, never about the storyline—every fight on these shows is about the show itself.” (114:55)
• On Housewives dynamics:
  Cynthia Bailey: “Atlanta is… just a different beast. It’ll get handled.” (87:39)

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Standout Segments (by Timestamp)

• Summer House / Scamanda Scandal: 02:05 – 56:58

  • Sierra’s take: 08:40
  • Joint statement nuances: 16:52
  • The “PI and video” saga: 13:31, 15:02
  • Rebecca Jennings’ insight: 28:19

• Mormon Wives & Dakota Update: 61:51 – 69:58

• Real Housewives of Atlanta with Cynthia Bailey: 76:26 – 89:47

  • New cast & “villain era”: 76:56, 81:40
  • Cynthia’s Atlanta vs. Summer House view: 85:39–87:39

• Bravo Franchises Roundtable (with Miguel & Miguel’s Impressions): 90:30 – 131:59

  • K. Michelle and Pinky Cole’s impact: 96:07
  • The authenticity of Amanda’s happiness: 124:18
  • Deep dives into Beverly Hills & Rhode Island: 99:07, 108:37

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Key Takeaways

• The “Scamanda/Westgate” scandal resonates due to its messy but highly relatable emotional betrayal, driving intense fan reaction and debate about proportional accountability.
• The contrast between Summer House and Mormon Wives drama highlights differing audience appetites—relatable, friendship-based mess vs. high-stakes, less accessible scandals.
• Housewives franchises continue to evolve, with Atlanta reclaiming its reputation for high-octane drama and new franchises offering fresh dynamics and generational clashes.
• Ultimately, behind the televised drama, loyalty, friendship, and the ethics of on-camera storytelling are under constant negotiation—both for the stars and for their insatiable audiences.

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For anyone wanting the full, juicy play-by-play of Reality TV’s biggest headlines, this episode overdelivers: it’s messy, it’s nuanced, and it’s unmistakably The Viall Files.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

That's me.

[A]

Sierra is back in studio. Super excited to have her because we have not heard her summer house Scamanda take. Are you calling it Scamanda Sierra? What are you calling it?

[C]

Yeah, I'm taking it. The all consuming situationship of my life.

[D]

I've seen Westgate.

[A]

Westgate's pretty good. I kind of like Westgate Westgate Westgate a little, but it's gonna have. Yeah, well, we'll, we'll get into all that. We also have Rebecca Jennings from New York magazine joining us momentarily to help us break down all things Commander Westgate. Whatever you want to call It. We also have some updates in the world of the Mormon wives. Taylor Frankie Paul has left a Mormon church. Dakota has been cut from Vanderpump Villa. And we'll talk about all that with Rebecca Jennings as well. She recently interviewed Taylor Frankie Paul before her season of the Bachelorette was about to come out and then subsequently has been put on pause or canceled. We still don't know yet. But certainly a lot to get in with Rebecca. All the reality TV controversy that is upon us.

[C]

Oh, I can't wait.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

We also have Cynthia Bailey, queen friend of show, host of Humble Brag, and star of Real Housewives of Atlanta, which debuted last night. And so Cynthia will be joining us to give us a little insight of what we can expect from this season of Atlanta. And also, your favorite Bravo impersonator, Miguel Luciano is also with us to help us break down all Real Housewives. We have a new housewives franchise. Rhode island is here. I think it's pretty good.

[C]

I love it.

[A]

We have a new heartthrob of Bravo, and it's my old roommate, Jared Haven. The ladies of Bravo are just dying over his jawline. And I've been like, you know, I used to have coffee with that jawline every morning.

[C]

Where have you been the last two decades?

[A]

It's kind of fun to see Bravo discover Jared Haybin.

[C]

Right. I love that he's like this unassuming, like, coffee shop running. Like it's very much giving a Hallmark their situation.

[D]

Yes. She moves to Rhode island for him in this group of women now that she, you know, she really is. Ashley really is like the pov.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

Entrance into the show and I couldn't be happier.

[A]

I don't know what Ashley's role is going to be on this season. I don't think she's one for polyamory, you know. No, she's not going to stay. Like, Ashley's like my sister, like Jared, you know, like I've known these are some of my closest friends. And when they were talking about, like, who here's had a threesome? Like, had Ashley raised her hand in that moment, that would have been as if I was watching a TV show with like my little sister admitting that. Thank God she didn't. She did not raise her hand. I think. Yeah. I think Ashley is going to be the perfect talking head for this group. Like, she is a professional narrator from years of experience from the Bachelor franchise. But we'll get into all that later this episode when Cynthia and Miguel join us. But we, I want to obviously want to get Into Sierra. I want to get into your Scamander take. I don't know if you guys have watched the. The. The reunion for Age of Attraction. It is out is streaming. Everyone is talking about. And the Age of Attraction cast, they are doing their work and trying to keep the drama continuing. When it comes to the Age of Attraction reunion, I got to say, like, I'm a bit surprised. Most people are team John versus and when it comes to the John and Teresa, I did not see that coming. And I'm. I'm. I wonder what people think about that. I would love, Mary, if you could just kind of give a synopsis of what maybe the fans are saying between John and Teresa.

[D]

Yeah. So I think a lot of what the fans are reacting to is their team John sometimes, in my opinion, because I think people don't necessarily want to take the side of, like, a woman in that situation is kind of what it reads to me a little bit, but that's just my opinion. I think it boils down to the text. The text or voice memo. I forget what it was that voice had sent John. Yeah, I think that, you know, it was a very charged, highly emotional moment. And I think people probably read that as, like, a little bit manipulative, I guess, but I don't know. And I think maybe also because of the. I think in discussions about these age gap relationships, at least from what I've seen online, I think a lot of people tend to be harder on the older person in that dynamic.

[A]

That's what I was wondering.

[D]

Regardless of if that's fair.

[A]

It seems that that seems to be the case, that there doesn't seem to be a lot of space. We're not holding space for the older people in these, like, relationships. It's almost like, I don't know, it's like John's the younger person and Teresa should know better or something.

[D]

But it's also like, Jon's a full adult man, and it's Theresa's first time living, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Just because she's older than him doesn't mean she's gonna be some bearer of all wisdom in relationships and do everything perfect. Like, I think that's a very unfair standard to hold on her.

[A]

What do you think, sweetheart?

[B]

Well, he's in the club flirting it up with Leah, so, you know, I

[A]

don't know if he was flirting up. I think the Age of Attraction cast has a. Has a contact at tmz. They were. Was it. Who was a.

[C]

They were on a. Leah, Chris and

[B]

Jorge did the TMZ bus Tour After Dark.

[A]

That's an interesting group. Leah, Chris and Jorge. Fences are mended between Chris and Leah.

[D]

Chris and Leah I think are tight.

[A]

I don't think there's anything going on between Leah and John at the reunion. Leah was sitting a mile, like, was sitting next to John, but there was a whole ocean between the two of them. And then there was something Leah wanted to get into that we didn't get into. It had something to do with this pact or when they mentioned Instagram shenanigans. I think. I think they were clear in the air. I think is what you saw is. I think that was a conversation of them clearing the air. I don't. I don't think there's anything going on, but maybe not. Maybe I'll be surprised.

[B]

That would be wild.

[D]

Who's to say? Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

And then what was this recent report about Derek and Derek and angel, which

[B]

is who I was referring to when I asked him about it on the reunion.

[A]

He did DM me and said he want. He might have to come back and clear the air. Okay, so if you haven't watched the reunion yet, be sure to do that. You can listen to it or most people and rightfully are watching. It is available now on YouTube. So get into the debate on whose side you are on. It is out is available. All right, Sarah, you've been watching Summer House in season one. You are our official, unofficial Summer House historian. When this news broke, you were traveling, so I didn't get to talk with you. But when did you realize it was real? Before the statement. The statement.

[C]

It took the statement. I was in complete denial because, I mean, everything that we were hearing beforehand was all hearsay, rumor leaked, spotted, whatever. But, like, nothing with concrete evidence. No photos, a video of her wiping something off of his mouth. As much as I was like, girl, I would never do that for a guy friend of mine that I am not sleeping with. However, Summer House, they all kind of have weird dynamics where they're very touchy, very close and sober. So it's just like, okay, maybe this is just the dynamic of their friendship. When they put out that black screen white text, I lost my mind. I just, like, I still remember just the chills that I got because I was just like, it was a douche pimples. Like, I'm just like, you didn't address. Address any of, like, the things that mattered in this whole thing. And it's like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. We're friends, but we. We don't Know how we fell into it? Like, girl, you were sneaking around for however many months, made this conscious decision, and then all of a sudden I'm supposed to be like, oh, my God, I feel so bad for her because I can't believe she got caught. Like, no, I don't feel bad for you at all. I think this is the dumbest decision that both of them made. They both are on their highest arcs of their seasons of the series, and then it's like you both just kamikaze that so fast. I don't even know. And, like, west is out laying out, listening to music, vacationing, living his best life, gaining followers. You've got Kyle doing interviews on the street. I'm just like, why are we not picking up cameras? But at the same time, this reunion is going to be insane because it's going to be the first time that they've all been in the same room together since this broke. And I'm like, thank God. Best reunion to come.

[A]

Is that rumor true that Andy will be sitting down with West, Amanda and Sierra for the reunion individually?

[D]

It's not like an. Like Bravo hasn't announced it. I think a lot of people are just kind of assuming that's going to happen. Allah scandal.

[A]

Yeah, because I, I definitely, reunion wise, I. I don't think we can unpack this all by putting everyone in a room and having everyone yell at each other. I do want to hear. I want to hear Sierra's version. I want to hear Amanda's version. I want to hear Wes's version. I want to hear the different stories.

[B]

How similar do you think Wes and Amanda's versions are going to be?

[C]

Oh, I. I honestly think we're about to hear three very different versions because, I mean, also, obviously things are coming out saying that him and Sierra were together within the last, like, month, month and a half. Plus, you have the super bowl stuff. You know, Dave Portnoy said that he knew about their affair back then, but he was at the super bowl with Sierra. So I'm like, and then you have these other women coming out.

[A]

We calling it an affair.

[C]

I. I would be shocked if it wasn't. From rewatching this season, you're prepared to

[A]

say that Amanda was cheating on Kyle or speculate?

[C]

I. I think there might have been some overlap. I think it takes a lot for somebody to leave. Amanda didn't give that she was going to be leaving that marriage anytime soon. And the only thing that I could think that would promote her to move, to get out of it would be with somebody Else.

[D]

Okay, I missed you.

[C]

That's what I was saying. And I'm like, if I'm wrong, I will apologize. But I'm just saying that I'm just like, the timeline doesn't make sense. The that we're seeing re watching Summer House. And think about it. If this didn't come out, we would have just watched this season of Summer House. Like it was just another normal season. You know what I mean? And then it's like this stuff comes out. Then people go back and you're looking at these scenes and looking at the intimacy, how close they're sitting next to each other, how they're joking, calling Kyle her boyfriend. Like, why? Why is that a funny joke?

[D]

I was literally about to make a Weston Sierra talk talk Charlie xcx Troy Sivan remix fan cam. Like, that's the level of Delulu I was on watching this season. So it's like, that's enough, right?

[C]

And then rewatching scenes between west and Sierra, like, not just feels icky.

[B]

Have we figured out what the whole sock thing was in the bathroom? Like, he grabbed a sock, he put it in his pants and came out and saw Kyle and then acted like he was like, kyle, you need to go check on her. And, like, pulled the sock out of his pants.

[C]

So what I've been seeing about that is that that was like a hot mic moment so that he used that to cover the mic. I just. All this is all speculation because all I've seen is like, daddy, Andy is not going to be happy about this. And a lot of people are taking that scene. Removing the background audio, enhancing the microphone audio. There.

[A]

The geek squads coming out. The Bravo geek squad.

[B]

They slowed it down. It sounds like he calls her baby.

[D]

Oh, my God. What if they reverse it? This is just like when people thought Paul McCartney died.

[C]

I swear to God, I heard a kiss in there, too. Like, I don't know. So that's where I'm just like, I would think that the only thing that he would know is that he was about to say something inappropriate. Tried to make sure that the mic was covered as much as possible, you know, because he's not going to need a sock for anything else.

[A]

Well, on Thursday's episode, I mentioned that I had heard that the receipts exist, and that's all I was comfortable saying at the time. And then that these alleged receipts that exist were going to be shown to Andy, and it may or may not be brought up at the reunion. Between then and now, TMZ came out with a story. Mary, do you have that story?

[D]

Yeah. So basically it came out that sources close to the situation tell TMZ that Ciara obtained a video allegedly showing Amanda and Wes being intimate in his apartment. Something that left her upset. We're told neither Amanda nor West knew they were being recorded. One source tells us Amanda sent Sierra a text on Monday afternoon saying she never meant to hurt her. We're told Amanda also said she wanted to sort out her feelings about west before discussing the romance with her friend.

[B]

I mean, I don't know if this obviously is true or not. Can you imagine being the, like, building across from where Wes Wilson lives and he has no. I mean, every time his blinds are open, he's just like being watched and recorded and the like.

[A]

Do we think that's what it is?

[B]

How else are there?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

That's a big questionnaire.

[A]

Well, there's. I mean, there's so many rumors about this alleged video going on. Did someone hire a PI?

[C]

I heard a voice note from a friend, allegedly a friend of Hannah, that was telling, retelling the whole story, and said that Sierra was the one that hired a P. But that the PI Kind of came up short. Somebody who is a blogger obtained said video. I don't know if they were the one that took the video and that Sierra had reached out to them asking for the video to be sent to her and that the person was like, no, because of legal reasons or whatever. So then after the PI failed that Sierra reached out to the person and said, can we meet up so I can at least see the video? And that that's how she saw what happened between Amanda and West.

[A]

If that's true, what do we. I mean, hiring a PI feels like some of the most like, rich person drama I've ever. Yeah, it seems like. I know it's like a thing, but it's just like it's. It's something you only see in movies, in TV shows.

[B]

It feels like you don't need a pie because you have the entire Internet behind you, who is all FBI agents, we're all private investigators. Like, we all know more than Whoever this like 50 year old man that you would have hired would have been able to like tail Amanda and find out where she's going and what she's doing. Like, the Internet knows more than that, man. And so I do feel like that would have been a waste of money,

[A]

but it would be crazy if one got hired. Is that. Am I the only one who thinks that?

[B]

I agree, but I feel like maybe she didn't Think the Internet would Internet? I don't know.

[A]

But also begs the question, is this. Is this video, this supposed video.

[C]

It's not.

[E]

Right.

[A]

It doesn't seem okay. It just seems, like, questionable that this video exist, period exists. Like, it. It seems like maybe not okay for this video to have been recorded. Then there's layers there. And it kind of makes me wonder, I really want to know how this all went down in terms of how did this video get recorded? If this video exists, who then how is this video presented to the people involved? Like, was she reached out to by a blogger? Did that same person then let west and Amanda know this video exists? Because to me, everyone's talking about this, like, joint PR statement, which was bonkers. Right. Like, the fact that Amanda and West put out this joint statement together, not even confirming a relationship. Maybe it's. It was very vague. Right. A lot of people had problems with the fact that it didn't, like, address Sierra.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is, like, makes a lot of sense, but at the same time, I think it's a lose, lose. Because if. If they put in, like, if they, like, if they put out a statement and. And. And talked about, like, we're it. It almost would have looked really bad if they would have, like, assumed that Sierra would be bothered by it. I mean, I think she is bothered by it and rightfully so, but you know what I'm saying? It's just like, it would be a kind of almost. And by the way, we're sorry, Sierra. Like, if in a joint statement, they would have.

[B]

It definitely would have felt disingenuous.

[A]

Yeah, sure. Like, it just would have been like

[B]

your statement talking about how you found the. This connection between the two of you and, like, there's just no right way.

[A]

There's a. It's a lose, lose.

[C]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[F]

But I do think they should have done it.

[C]

Yeah. When you have the, like, chat GPT apology, where it's just kind of like, keep everything vague, nothing specific, but then, like, give us our privacy.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. It's always going to come off wrong if it was like a heartfelt apology. Because I've seen some where I'm like, you know, maybe they use pink background white text. I don't know.

[D]

But, like, they changed up the color

[C]

scheme and somehow it affects something. No, but, like, I've seen heartfelt apologies on. On people's Instagram stories where I'm like, okay, I believe that they're genuinely sorry. Where I'm like, the way that these two people were sneaking around then you go back into their Instagram post and it's like, she's got Best day Ever by West Wilson and like, can't be or going back to Friends is like the song of it. And it's like, west all over. Like, if I were Sierra and that's one of my best friends, I'd be like, girl, do you not have anybody else you can hang out with besides, like, my ex fling? Yeah, like, it's just fudgeing weird.

[D]

Also, you're watching the two of them, even if it's kind of for tv, reconnect. You know what I mean? Like, even at the end of the day, if the Weston Sierra thing did end up being something they were kind of both leaning into for a storyline, which it doesn't seem like it if they were hooking up again, but let's say for argument's sake that it was and it was not real. Still, she's fucking ruining her storyline. That's a shitty co worker move. So it's like either she's a shitty friend, a shitty co worker, or both.

[C]

I go, both.

[A]

Yeah, she's definitely. This is shitty friend behavior. I just think when this video came out, like, I honestly think it's all. I think this is. It's all centered around this video because this video came out and I think Amanda and Wes panicked because now there's, like, evidence of them being together. You know what I'm saying? Like, it went from all these rumors, rumors, rumors, rumors. We are all thinking some sort of, like, bad April Fool's joke. And then. And then all of a sudden, like, this weird joint statement. And I feel like a lot comes down to this. I think this video played a big role.

[C]

I also think that, like, their bubble got popped. Because what I heard, not confirmed fully that Sierra saw that Amanda was at Wes's house in, like, Find My Friends and that she texted her, being like, are you guys just friends or what's going on? And that Amanda took 15 hours to respond and then said just friends. And that Sierra responded while you can still have sex with your friend or something like that. And then like a day or so later was when Amanda was like, I'm sorry. Like, it's actually something serious. So I'm like, it's just giving that. Like, you guys were living in your own little fantasy world of this affair, this relationship, this situationship, whatever you want to call it. And then once it got real was when people started to talk about it, start piecing things together and then not dropping it. And then for two weeks, they're being consistently questioned about it. Then I'm like, yeah. Then for the fact that there's an actual video, like it's like you guys either have to come forward or something else is going to get released. Not within your own narrative. But I just don't know why this would be the narrative that they chose.

[A]

I don't think they chose it as much as it was a panicked response. And then they got some bad advice from whatever publicist they decided to work with.

[C]

Did you see Lindsay's story that she was like their new publicist is Alex from Love is Blind.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I've learned about publicists? It's just like when stuff like this happens, the average publicist is not in crisis pr. They're typically not well versed. And crisis pr. I don't, it's been my experience and usually when this stuff happens, there's this, you get on these phone calls and there's just a lot of guessing, a lot of ideas being thrown out, a lot of guesses. Maybe we should do this, maybe we should do that. And then somehow you get this like, well, let's do this joint statement. But I really think this joint statement was just a crazy reaction to not knowing what the fuck they're supposed to do and things getting out of control.

[D]

Yeah. I just don't understand why if you're having this torrid affair that you're trying to keep hidden, you're wearing his Remy Wolf sweatshirt and all of his fucking clothes all over the place.

[B]

I mean, I will say that they're, I mean like some of the things that, like an Elwood hat, very common. Like very. Like if you're in, you know, like some of this stuff is like maybe there's just two of them and maybe they both bought the same hat or

[A]

maybe Elwood gifted them all.

[B]

Maybe Elwood,

[A]

you know, they're, they got some great hoodies. Shout out to Elwood. I, I really enjoy their stuff.

[D]

Good point. Maybe not Elwood. Maybe the Remy Wolf merch specifically spoke to me. Or I think it's the fact that west did that with the Chicago girl and wore the like horse hair tie that she made on Watch what Happens Live. So like it's like their fashion is, it's really interesting. I wonder what you think about it of like the way they're using clothes to almost like soft launch these situationships on tv.

[C]

I mean it's giving to me that west has an M.O.

[E]

yeah.

[C]

Like if you're wearing your other girly stylist horse hair Tie on. Watch what happens live. Which obviously means you guys have seen each other in the last couple of weeks. To exchange that to Amanda and him changing clothes, like, I'm just like. It seems like that's, like, what he's into. But I'm also her saying.

[B]

Saying, like, the reason that she was able to come back this season was, like, because of west and Jesse. Amanda and like, how they've been, like, so supportive of her or something. And it's like, that's. Those two guys are why you feel, like, so comfortable coming back.

[C]

That's what I'm saying. I'm like, she's.

[D]

She has not de Centered men.

[C]

Yeah. She likes the attention and the flirtation because, like, all I've seen is the commentary on Sierra and how she was so. How she couldn't have gotten through the summer without her. And I'm just like, what a bold statement to say after the season when this is how you're moving.

[A]

Well, I think it's a great time to bring in Rebecca Jennings from New York magazine, who is also covering the story. A lot more to discuss. I want to. I am curious here as we discuss this with Rebecca. Are we. Like, to me, I think criticizing Amanda and West, by all means, we. They deserve criticism. Amanda. But I'm curious for the audience, can we criticize Amanda and Wes without condemning them? Or is this full condemning? You know, are we.

[B]

I think the issue is, is no one's condemning West.

[F]

The fact some people.

[A]

I mean, we are.

[B]

He's gained over 50,000 followers.

[C]

It's great.

[B]

Well, because, like, she's losing brand deals is nuts.

[A]

No, I think it. Yeah, it is nuts. And I'm curious because to me, like, it. It. I can make a lot of sense how Amanda got to this place. I don't know what actually happened, but I. I think you can criticize Amanda rightfully so. I think she was a bad friend to Sierra. I think maybe, you know, my question is how much does Amanda regret this, if at all? Does she realize the error of her ways? Because I. It to me, how this all went down makes a lot of sense. And that's why I think west is. Because to me, I want to know how to start.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I think that really. I think that really, really matters. Anyways, we'll get into it. Let's bring on Rebecca. We'll dive deeper into Westgate. I like Westgate.

[D]

Westgate.

[A]

West.

[D]

Willscam.

[A]

I like Westgate better. All right, let's bring. Let's bring on Rebecca before we dive into it. Don't forget that all episodes of Vile Files plus are now ad free. In addition to that, we have our Reality Recap Deep Dives where we'll certainly be diving deep all things Summer House Scandal, the Bachelorette Scandal, Mormon Wives. All of that will diving deep into this week. Plus get your update specials, your favorite update calls from your favorite Ask Nick episodes as well as your Pop Extra roundup where we talk about all your favorite pop culture topics we didn't get to talk about on Reality recap. Go to val files.com to sign up. You'll be glad that you did. Do not miss out. Monarch is an all in one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth in future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this year and get 50% off your monarch subscription. With Code V I A L L, Monarch keeps you focused on planning and hitting financial milestones, not just tracking your spending. Monarch gives you a complete picture budget, debt, payoffs, timelines, saving goals, net worth so you can make decisions that actually move the needle. So whether maybe you're saving up for that big purchase like buying your first home, or maybe it's getting yourself out of credit card debt, but Monarch will help guide you to those goals. More information, Better insight. Know what you are spending on and when and how you need to save. Also they have AI assistant 247 access to financial coach accessible from anywhere in Monarch. From questions about transing your spending to how to pay off debt, the AI Assistant has answers for you. Achieve your financial goals for good with monarch. The all in one tool that makes money management simple. Use code V I A L [e-mail] for half off your first year. That's 50% [e-mail] code V I A L L this episode is sponsored by Better Help. There's so many stresses in life, but financial stress is one of the top ones that gets us really, really worried and freaked out and just weighs on us. And if that's something that's bothering you, maybe it's time to jump into therapy. Money problems aside, stressing about it isn't going to get you anywhere. But stressing does make your life harder and challenges your health. Also just challenges your interpersonal relationships. When you don't deal with your stress and anxiety that it seeps into other aspects of your life. That's where BetterHelp comes in. Regardless of what it is you need to get off your chest, BetterHelp is helping people jump into therapy like never before. It's incredibly convenient. You literally just need a device. And it makes it so much easier to find the right therapist, which for me and for my money, is the hardest part about why people avoid jumping into therapy, because first, it's just hard to find. It can be intimidating. Do you want to ask your friends? I don't know. But what if that person isn't someone you. You are comfortable with? Many, many therapists might be great, but not great for you. But because BetterHelp is working with over 30,000 therapists and you can switch for free anytime you want until you land on a therapist that's right for you, they make it pretty, pretty easy to find a therapist that you really, really love and that you find helpful. So whether your relationship is getting you down, money problems are stressing you out, job is not what you want it to be. Try to get it off your chest with better help. Just go to betterhelp.com, answer a few questions about the things that are weighing you down, and they will set with a mental health professional in no time. You could be jumping into your therapy journey in less than a day simply by going to betterhelp.com and answering just a few questions. What do you have to lose? You certainly have a lot to gain, so give it a try. If you've ever thought about it, when life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com V I A L L that is BetterHelp. H E L p.com via L L Rebecca, welcome to the show. Great to be with you.

[F]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

We're so excited to have you. Before we start, can you give our audience just a little bit background on. Obviously, you write for New York magazine. You seem very entrenched to all things pop culture. But can you give us a little bit of background about yourself and we'll dive into all things reality tv. Scandal.

[F]

Yeah, basically I dive really deep on the things we all love. Internet culture, influencers, reality tv, this wonderful world we're all in.

[A]

Well, we love talking about it. You love writing about it. We're very, very excited to have you with us. You also recently interviewed Taylor Frankie Paul, correct?

[F]

I did, yes. I visited her in Salt Lake City, and I was on set for the Bachelorette in November.

[A]

Okay, well, we'll definitely want to dive into that as well, but we are talking. Are you calling it Scamander? I think we. We came up with Westgate or maybe. Man, did you come up with that. The Internet and the Internet did. Okay, I like Westgate, but what are you calling it, Rebecca?

[F]

I mean, Westgate, I feel like, is more journalistic. You know, it references Watergate, which is always fun. But Scamanda, I think, rolls off the tongue a little better. I think people are comparing it to scandal, so I get it. But, you know, Westgate is, you know, I would say the more accurate term.

[A]

Well, it also, like, I mean, one. You know, I do think it's interesting whose name is represented in the scandal, either west or Amanda. I think a lot of people want it to be Amanda because I think the Internet seems to be more frustrated at Amanda than West, if for no other reason. Like, I think. I don't know where you stand, Rebecca, but I think everyone in this room feels like west, he's not getting the right amount of criticism. And Amanda seems to be getting it more. But it makes sense to me just under the lens of. I think we all agree that Sierra's the one we have the most empathy for. She's the person who's been the most victimized by the story. And I think we all just assume that while west deserves a lot of criticism and he clearly didn't consider Sira's feelings, but that Sierra is probably more upset at Amanda and that friendship, and that's the big betrayal. So therefore, that's what we're focusing on. And whether it's right or wrong, it's not that we're giving West a pass, but that seems to be where most of the energy is going because it's like, we're not surprised by Wes's behavior. We're most surprised by Amanda's ability to betray her friend. Ciara.

[F]

Yeah, I think that as viewers of the show, we were always much more like, shipping their friendship versus shipping west and Ciara. I think most viewers were like, yeah, like, we want Ciara to have, like, a great relationship with this guy who seems fun and cool. But I think over the course of, I think five years now, it's been that the friendships between the women have always been sort of like the dominant relationships of the show, the ones that we can actually root for. And I think that as viewers. Viewers, I think, feel more betrayed by that than by, like a man on Bravo doing something shitty, like tale as old as time. Like, we've seen that a million times.

[A]

For sure. For sure. But it's interesting because, like, now you have, like, fans wanting to argue, is this scandal, is this behavior? Like, where does this rank in the history of bad behavior of Bravo celebrities? And, like, to your point, objectively speaking, while this is, like, a big story and, like, there's certainly a lot to unpack, and there's so many layers when you actually look at what happened. When you compare it to, say, Jax, Taylor or whatever, you know, there's, there's a lot of, of bad behavior in Bravo, like, sometimes illegal behavior, sometimes, you know, bullying, and, like, some really nasty stuff. And when you compare it to that, you're like, yeah, this is juicy. But, like, you know, there are some other really bad stuff going on, which is. It's just kind of fascinating. Well, I, I am curious. There's so much rumors going on now. We. TMZ reported about this video. I had heard before TMZ reported about this video that receipts did exist and that were going to be shown to Andy. Have you heard anything that you can confirm? Or are you just like us, kind of just seeing a bunch of rumors that we don't know what is and isn't true?

[F]

Yeah, I mean, I think we're all in this sort of, like, media mush pile where it's like, what is true, what isn't, right now, I tried to get tea. I went to the summer house watch party at Soft Bar last Tuesday. Carl was not there. He was traveling. I asked the bartenders, I was like, they were like, we don't watch the show. And also our management told us to not talk about this. I was like, okay, fair. Uh, so I, I, I, I achieved zero T. But I, I too, am in the depths of the Reddit master threads with, with everyone else, um, trying to figure it out. And I would love, you know, some clarity.

[A]

Well, I, I had heard there was a video, and then tmz, you know, from second, third hand, you know, from a couple people. And then TMZ reported on it. So I, I think there's gotta be something there. And to me, I'm curious about, like, what's, like, where did it go from being a rumor that Amanda and Wes were clearly denying to all their friends to being essentially, it seems like, I don't want to say forced, but, like, what caused this joint statement? It seemed to be something that went from rumors to, like, what caused them to hire, like, a PR team together and put out the statement. And it makes a lot of sense that the, this alleged video might exist, and that's what maybe perpetuated them to, like, make this aggressive move that we all are kind of confused by. It's like, are you together? Are you not together? Like, what, what is the statement?

[F]

Yeah, they didn't even confirm a relationship. It was a connection, which I think is really interesting. But I think like, I don't know, I know a lot of people were really surprised when they confirmed it. But also like as a journalist, like when there are rumors like to that degree, like it's pretty much always true. Like it just is. Like so many people aren't gonna say the same thing unless they're especially like having video or photographic evidence of something that just doesn't happen unless there's something there. And I was never super surprised by it, but I was surprised by that statement which did seem really wishy washy. It didn't really make sense to me and it very much is like more to come. But also from what we're hearing about west dating other women and like them not even confirming that it is a relationship rather than doing the easy thing, which is just maybe making like a statement or talking to Ciara behind the scenes and being like it was a drunken hookup. We, we were in a situationship and it's over and we were really sorry. Instead it was just like, well yes, and, and we don't know. And yeah, it was, it was crazy. It's like I, I'm curious at what you think as someone who's been in front of the cameras about that statement. Like what would ever possess someone like you to put out something like that?

[A]

Sheer panic, like not knowing. No, seriously. And I've thought so much about this because, like, listen, and you know, it's like the Internet, the, you know, I think as we follow this story, we have to recognize that, that as much as we condemn this, we all love the drama. And I think there's these. It's like, well, it can't be true. It can't be true. There's a part of us that all are secretly like hoping it's true because it's drama that's outside of our own lives. Amanda was a bad friend of Cira. There's no debate there, right? But I think a lot of people are asking, like, how could this happen to me? I'm not shocked. This happened for a lot of reasons. There's a human side and there's a TV side. I think from the human side, if we're being honest, we can all relate to knowing what it's like to be in a relationship for a long time and then getting out of that relationship and feeling very confused about like what our future holds, like what that dating landscape is like. You have this group of friends that are very close, right? They Operate very high school. Like, you know, we see old clips of this, like, are they friends? Are they having sex? I don't know what's going on. Like, I wouldn't act that way around my friend. And there's like this closeness there, there. And then like I have empathy for Amanda. Not because it's not like, oh, she, that doesn't make her not a bad friend. It's just more. She's married to this guy for 10 years, right? We, we, we've broken down this relationship at nauseam. She's had Kyle's back, you know, and all of a sudden she's single for the first time in 10 years. And I can imagine Amanda being very confused about like her dating life. Meanwhile, her ex husband is now a dj.

[E]

Dj.

[A]

And he's out there clubbing. And I imagine it's probably pretty easy for Kyle to meet women, you know, and I'm pretty sure he's out there. And I bet Kyle has different standards for like what his dating life's going to look like for the next six months. He's might be open to the casual hookup here or there while he's DJing. And then you have Amanda, who's probably not into that. Right. And then she has the comfort of this guy named west, who's this very affable, very flirty. You know, there's this security there, there's this friendship there. And it doesn't make it okay, but I think we all can relate to that feeling of like, oh, this guy's nice to me. And then says, and I'm thinking, okay, is Amanda really going to jump on Hinge, you know what I'm saying? Is Amanda gonna start jump going on dating apps? I bet there's a lot of nervousness of like, oh, I'm this kind of famous person and this confusion. So she's not out there dating. And then there's this guy named West. That's a very relatable story. Am I making any sense or.

[C]

No, no, no, you're making sense. It's just kind of like he's not like this guy west, though. He's this guy west that's been actively in a situationship relationship on and off with one of her best friends.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Who she sat in a bed and listened to cry to about try and figure out the situation, make jokes about their behavior over the summer. And then for me too, like where I'm like, you're saying your biggest issue with Kyle is the drinking, the partying, the going out, and then you get done With Kyle, and the first person you date is somebody who likes to party, drink, and go out and not.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think. I think there's. To all your points. I think we can easily pick it all, apart of why it was a foolish decision. She clearly wasn't thinking clearly. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

I don't think you can see how they. I mean, clearly they were hanging out a ton. They were like. There's so many videos of them, like, walking the streets of New York, whether it's in big groups or on, like, these influencer trips together. And, like, you can see where maybe they're out. They're a little drunk.

[F]

He's like, just come back to my place, like.

[B]

And she's like, this is my friend.

[A]

I'm just like. When we're all just like, I can't believe this happened. I just think there are. You can connect dots to be like, no, I mean, I can see how it happened. It doesn't make it. You know. You know what I'm saying? Like.

[F]

Well, it's also just like, cheating happens. And not that there was technically any cheating going on, but it's like, this stuff happens in friend groups all the time. Like, people who are not on reality tv. And so it's just like. But I think that's why the fans are so, like, upset over this, because, like, people see themselves and people see that they could be on one end of this situation at some point in their lives, and how betrayed they would feel because, like, they do feel like they know these people. And so it's like, yes, it can happen. And it's probably more common than, like, anyone wants to admit, but, like, it's seeing it like this with these characters that we've known for a decade is just, like, really troubling, I think, for a lot of people's sense of, like, peace and who they are.

[A]

I think you nailed it, Rebecca. I think why we're so caught up in the story is because how relatable it is for all of us. You know, we might not have done exactly this, right, but there are, throughout our lives, these relationship dynamics and friends and betrayals and, like. Like, the. The mental gymnastics we do to convince ourselves. Like, I. I would be curious what Amanda's like, how. How she got there. Like, I'm sure she did some kind of mental gymnastics to convince herself that what she was doing wasn't as bad as we all feel as it is, right? It's just like, well, you know, they. They weren't ever really Dating, I don't know. But I think it's. I think it's a friendship dynamic that is very relatable and unlike the Taylor, Frankie, Paul, and Mormon wives of it all, which is like, like, again, very heavy. And we're talking about some really bad behavior. Not condoning what Amanda and Wes did is that, like, this is. This is all very relatable, and this happens all the time. And, you know, like, while we're, like, freaking out about the scandal, we have Carl and Lindsay doing uber eat campaigns already, you know, kind of.

[D]

Carl's a mess.

[A]

Carl's a mess. And, like, monetizing the.

[D]

This.

[A]

This drama already. So it's kind of like to say no one died, so to speak. You know, it's just like, it's something we can all, like, get activated using the words of Lindsay Hubbard and get really kind of righteous about, like, what side we're on. And I would never do that. And, oh, my God, fuck any friend who would do that. But, like, I think it's easy for us to talk about it because we've all been wrapped up in some kind of relationship drama that has hints of this drama that we're talking about.

[F]

Right, Exactly. And I think, like, there has been such a shift in fandoms of reality TV shows. Like, I would say, like, post pandemic fandom in general has gotten really, like, up to a 10. Like, the way that Love island now has to put, like, hey, don't, like, send death threats to our cast, like, every time it airs. I think a similar thing happens on Bravo where it's like, instead of being entertained by something, by drama in the way that maybe we used to 10, 20 years ago, now we want, like, justice, and we want to see the justice, and we expect that the people are looking at what we say on social media and reacting to it, and then, like, we'll come correct at the next meeting. And it's just a completely different way of interacting with reality television, I think.

[A]

Yeah, you have some people out there suggesting that Amanda and West, they should basically be exiled from reality tv. They should never get another campaign ever again. They should be banished from polite society is essentially what a lot of people online are suggesting. I'm curious, Sierra, or just for the house, if this went to court and you were the judge, you know, like, you got. You got to decide Amanda's penalty. Like, what is Amanda's penalty for this crime? What would it be? And just know that the baseline is Amanda. She's no longer friends with Sierra. She's lost that friend she's lost, probably friends with Paige, maybe Hannah, which to me it's just like losing a friend is a, that's a loss like, you know, that's a real loss that Amanda now has to face. She is seen differently by her fans. She's probably lost some money. I would be, I would say off

[C]

the bat, she lost a branch deal.

[A]

She's. She's lost 100 grand easy. Some kind of campaign that might have worked with her in the next six months was. Will probably just work with someone else, you know, so she, let's say as of now she's already lost 100k, three best friends and she's criticized by Bravo as, you know, a bad friend, a pick me, whatever. You, you know, you, you are judge and jury. You get to decide any further punishment. What is Amanda's punish punishment in addition to what she's already lost again?

[C]

And that to your point, like, I don't even know what she's dealing with on her day to day. I kind of feel like this fits the punishment, fits the crime. Like, I don't think that there's anything further that needs to happen. I think you made a terrible decision. You're on a public forefront that everyone has an opinion. Bravo fans take their shows very seriously. So it's like they, they hate feeling bamboozled. They feel like, like you fooled them them. So I'm like, I feel like she's already gotten enough as it is because people just aren't going to be fucking with her anymore. She's losing money. I don't think that there's anything further that she, she needs to deal with. I just think that she needs, I don't know. Therapy.

[D]

Yeah, like, I mean the, the like punishment idea isn't. Is an interesting concept because it's like, I don't know. Rebecca, I'm thinking about what you said about how back. I'm thinking about Jersey Shore. Right. I'm thinking about the. No and every, all of that that went down in Jersey Shore. And like I just sat and watched that when I was like 8 and I was like, give me more. And I still kind of feel that way. And yeah, obviously I think people are being hyperbolic online, but I, I do think that is a lot of what it is. Like, I've seen tweets that are like, what Zoran Mamdani's plan to get west and Amanda out of New York City. Like, that's obviously a joke and it's funny. So it's like, I think her quote unquote punishment is getting roasted online, which is like, like, okay, that's not that bad.

[C]

It's gonna die.

[D]

Like, it's gonna die down.

[C]

Somebody else is gonna do something stupid and it'll never exist again. But I'm just like, yeah, for the moment, unfortunately, you made a terrible decision and an extended choice. She's also a grown ass adult. So it's kind of like, unfortunately, when you do shitty, shady things and it comes to the forefront not by your own mouth, then you're gonna have to deal with everybody coming up with stories and all that stuff. If you want to set it straight, by all means, I'm sure we'll see that at the reunion. But I don't think that there's anything further that needs to happen to her.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Yeah. And I wonder if you guys think if it's a good thing or a bad thing that we hold reality TV stars to kind of this moral standard that we have ourselves. As far as what reality TV is

[B]

for, I think it's a bad thing because whenever the second that they're not giving us this type of stuff, Beverly Hills, we're like, this is boring. This is trash. We're not watching. Come on, do something. Like, let's see some action. Let's see some drama. And then the second that there is drama, we're like, oh, my God, ew. How could you? You're a terrible person. So it's like, you know, you can't hold reality TV stars to the same standard.

[A]

Rebecca, how would you feel if we saw west and Amanda on next season of Traitors?

[F]

I mean, I think there should be 1 million seasons of the Traitors and they should just like have like a rotating cast, like, of all the time. They'll always be filming. So, yes, put them on the Traitors. Always put people on the Traitors.

[A]

I agree. And I think anyone out there who thinks they shouldn't be given this opportunity, how do you justify Tom Sandoval getting an opportunity on Traders, if you know what I'm saying? Like, if you can put Tom Sandoval on Traders, Wes and Amanda certainly does.

[F]

And he was one of the best parts of that season.

[A]

So, yeah, I mean, if nothing else, you can't fire them from reality tv.

[B]

Rebecca, do you think either of them will come back to next season of Summer House or, like, are we gonna see this group in the city or on Summer House?

[F]

I mean, I think, I definitely think. I think we know we'll see them in the city and I think that'll be a really interesting watch because it was filmed last fall. But I also think that I really do think that Ariana Madix sort of broke reality TV when she refused to film with Tom any longer than she needed to for that season of Vanderpump. I think it really like changed the power dynamic of like stars to production like or from production to the stars. Like if Ciara doesn't want to film anymore, like, like people are talking about this could spell the end of Summer House as we know it. And I think it very much could. And it completely depends on the cast. And I think a lot of stars now are realizing like they don't have to like Paige leaving Summer House too. It's like she was like, I don't want to be part of this anymore. She's still very famous. Like Ciara can, all of them, if they want to can walk away from the show and be even more famous than they were before. Like they are not beholden to it. So I think it really depends on what they want to do.

[A]

Do you think all of them could or do you think just Ciara could make that call right now?

[F]

I mean, as we know there's like a very tried and true path to like going from villain to back again. Like I think, you know, people have tried and I just think it's like impossible to plan out the arc of someone's career based on like when we're in this sort of like weeks long maelstrom of drama around two people.

[A]

I think it's not a matter of if, when Ciara will be given at least one if not many opportunities to host a show of so some kind. If you're peacock, I'm locking up that contract as fast as possible. And if I'm a different streamer, I'm, I'm calling Sierra's people. Like I think Sierra is going to get whatever she wants. I hope that we see her on the red carpet of the Met gala next to Michael B. Jordan. Apparently Rihanna was maybe playing matchmaker there as well. Like I think Sierra should and will get her flowers. But yeah, I also think, I don't know if anyone else in the story might have that power to do that. I think we all, wherever Sierra goes next, I think she will have plenty of people of support her and I think, yeah, I think she's going to be hosting some kind of show soon.

[B]

Which can you imagine getting that DM from Rihanna that's like, hey babe, I'm team Sierra. Who are you interested in in this world? Let me hook you up.

[F]

Well, you know what's crazy about that is because. So when I interviewed the summer house cast last February 2025, Anda told me that Rihanna had dmed her being like, you're my favorite on the cast, like, years ago. And that's why, like, when I saw that news, I was like, oh, no. Like, you lost Rihanna.

[C]

She was your. She was your girl.

[F]

Yeah.

[D]

I think really, to go back to the punishment thing, Rihanna unfollowing you is maybe, like, that's enough.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You're her favorite.

[D]

Yeah. To be to for Rihanna. She's too busy for the album. She's focused on her kids. She has just enough time to tell Amanda batula, you're not. Shit. Like, that's awesome. And I do think that's beautiful. Sorry.

[A]

Yeah. The most fascinating thing about the story that I'm interested in is where do Amanda and Wes stand? And I predict the Amanda and West breakup, so to speak. And I don't mean, like, break up, like, their relationship because I don't know if they're in one. I think as things come out, I think their stories aren't going to line up. And I think we'll see the breakup of, like, the he said, she said of Amanda and Wes. And I. I feel like at that point, I think people will start having again. Like, it's not forgiving what Amanda did, and it's understanding that she may never be friends with Sierra and Paige and that group again. But I do think. I just think I get the position she was in and I have empathy for her. You know, it doesn't make it okay, but I just. I know how alone you can feel in this reality TV space. And, like, when you're. When your core group of friends, like, when you lose those and you have no one else. And I just feel like that's all this group had is each other. And. And I think it's as hard to make friends outside, you know, of. Of these spaces, and you don't know who to trust, you know, And I just. It just makes a lot of sense to me. Doesn't make it okay. But I do understand how she could have got there. Where West. I just feel like this is a guy who was going on watch what happens live wearing the tie of some other girl he was hooking up with. Like, this is. He didn't give a fuck. You know, he wasn't worried at all. Like, it doesn't seem like he was. Like, he was just kind of operating like he could kind of get away with anything and was up until this

[D]

point, I feel like with that, I don't know. I've been going back and forth. I think the empathy I do have for Amanda is, is waning a bit the more I think about it. Because it's like, you know exactly who Wes Wilson is. You have been, you watched him do that to Sierra. You watched him do all of these things. You watch him fuck around. You know that, that you're an adult woman making your own choice. Also, like, and I say this as, it's very easy to not hook up with someone. Like, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty easy even when you're in an emotional spot.

[E]

I don't know.

[A]

I, I hear you. I've been saying that about Wes for a long time now. But if you're going to say you knew who Wes Wilson was, you knew who, what he was all about, you know, I'm just.

[D]

Yeah, but she didn't know that he was like fucking around with Amanda.

[A]

No, I agree.

[D]

I think she knew that and still did it.

[A]

Again, the Amanda betraying Sierra is, is the thing. But I'm saying if you're just like, what was Amanda thinking when it came to Wes as it relates to, compared to Kyle? Again, we've all been duped by people. We've all convinced ourselves that this person's going to be different from us. We want to believe in people. I'm sure west had a million excuses as to why no one understands him and why he gets a bad rep as a fuckboy to a man. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not that, like we've all been in these conversations with people we talk to and, and it, you know, when we're talking to them, we always hear their version and we want to believe them. You know, I just. But if we're going to say Amanda should have known better because of what west represents, I just. Can't we say the same thing about Sierra? No. Is that off limits?

[C]

I don't agree. Just because I'm like that. They have a one on one dynamic. You know what I mean? So it's not like she was watching west with somebody else and being like, oh man, it'll be different with me this time where I feel like Amanda thinks it would be different with her this time and again. I just think that west being able to commit to a still married woman is not shocking to me because there is no real commitment.

[A]

Do we suspect that this relationship between Wes and Amanda was going on while she was still married to Kyle?

[F]

I've seen that, yeah. Well, yeah, she technically is still married, but I've seen. I've definitely seen stuff that, like, this began either during filming or before filming of last season. I have no idea. What do you guys think? I have no information.

[C]

And even when Kyle was stopped on the street. I don't know if you saw the three parts street interview, but the very organic interview.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Right.

[C]

There was a part that. Where he said, even I'm looking at last summer differently, where I'm like, oh, you feel alone? She's only paying attention to all the guys during that fight. He said, you've spent more time. She spent more time with you, west, than you than she has with me in the last six months. Like, that's a really interesting statement.

[A]

Would it matter to y' all if we find out that there was no physical line crossed prior to Kyle and Amanda's separation? But there was clearly something, you know what I'm saying? Like, a connection, like a friendship. Like, they were really.

[B]

Well, they've said that much publicly that they were.

[A]

Sure. But the question is, how deep did that closeness go? Right? Was it them going to each other's house and, like, talking to one o' clock in the morning, having wine, holding, you know, like. Like an intimacy there but didn't cross. Like, they didn't make out or they didn't have sex.

[E]

But there's.

[B]

But all of it is inappropriate given the fact that. That west has fucked over her best

[C]

friend several times and she's still a married woman. And have you seen the clip that Jesse Solomon posted? It's been circulating where it's Amanda and West in the club and they're dancing, and Amanda has West's hand on her chest and is, like, sinking slowly down, down the wall while holding his hand. And it's just like the intimacy between these two people. Like, this isn't giving. Like, oh, he's like a brother to me.

[D]

Me.

[C]

Like, it's giving. Like, if you guys weren't here right now, something else would be happening. Yeah.

[D]

It's also the way Wes defends Amanda with Kyle. It's just like, west, you've never cared about any of your.

[C]

You've Three summers. Yeah, Three summers you've watched Kyle yell at Amanda. Why this summer do you care to get involved?

[B]

And every summer he's like, I hate confrontation. I hate. I hate, like, doing this with my friends. I'm not getting involved. I'm not getting involved. And now all. All of a sudden, he's like, kyle, you need to apologize. You need to go say sorry. You need to give her a hug.

[C]

Yeah, I was gonna say Mr. No commitment all of a sudden wants to give dating and relationship advice.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

Kyle, you gotta go talk to your wife. She.

[E]

She.

[C]

She deserves to be spoken to. Like, like, why? Do you know how my wife is? Deserves to be spoken to? Why are you lecturing me about how to treat my wife? Because you're spending more time with her than I am, which is already red flag fucking weird.

[D]

And to be clear, do just want to say Kyle K. Cook still treated Amanda like shit. And I feel like we're, we're, we're all being very nice to Kyle right now, which he did. He got over. But at the same time, brother, you still treated her like shit.

[A]

And he's doing the only thing he can do right now, which is actually to support Amanda, which is definitely, I think, the right thing to do.

[C]

But I will say that, like, if, if a lot of this stuff comes to be that, like, she was seeing west and overlapping and whatnot, then I, I'm like, I actually do have a different level of empathy for Kyle because Kyle is being made to look like a crazy person. That's like, my wife doesn't hang out with me, My wife doesn't want to spend time with me. And we're all like, yeah, well, you chose to DJ and you're running your company into the ground. And there's so many reasons as to how this is your fault. But if, if the actual emotional distance is because Amanda. Amanda has completely checked out and gone elsewhere, then like, yeah, you're watching a child having his little, like one of those temper tantrum. But I'm like, it's because he doesn't know how to articulate what's going on in their relationship because all of a sudden you went from being there to not being there at all. And so I'm like, I do have a bit of a sympathy. If there was an overlap between west and Amanda with Kyle, that I'm like, yeah, Kyle, you're not crazy. You're actually picking up on all of the vibes. The fact that she's up at 2 in the morning when she's never stayed up past 10, 10pm 11pm on other summers. This summer, she's out till 2, 3 in the morning, ready to hang out with all the guys. I could see why Kyle's like, and I'm inside by myself. But you're down to hang out with west and, and Ben and everybody else, but you don't want to hang out with me. Like, if I'm up till two in the morning with my partner. I'm hanging out with my partner, too. Or being like, hey, come outside. Like, not making a choice to isolate said person, but if you don't want to fuck with them because you're with your boyfriend, I could see that.

[A]

Rebecca, what. What is. What is next, do you think, for this group? What are some of the. The storylines, I guess, that you're most excited or anxious to be kind of discussed and talked about? And where do you think the cast goes from here?

[F]

I mean, I think I have the question that everybody has, which is, like, what is the timeline? And I really, really, really hope, like, that the reunion gets into that and questions are answered. But, I mean, I think it's really hard because I don't want what happened to Vanderpump Rules to happen to Summer House. Although I do love some of the new. I love. I think Bailey is an amazing addition. I think she's so fun, and I'm, like, really interested to see, like, what's up with her. And Carl and Lindsay can never leave my screen. Like, I need her to be on reality TV for the rest, for life. And I hope in the City is as messy and fun as we hope it is. But I don't think it will be. But, yeah, I just. I think it's Bravo. And this fandom is in a really interesting spot with, like, where we go from here. Because, like, you're right, it's not as bad as Scandal, objectively. We also have a very different expectation of how our reality stars exist. So, like, we are. And, like, I think with the Taylor, Frankie, Paul thing, like, we are still drawing those lines about, like, what's okay and what's not, what's too dark for reality TV and what's not and what's just fun mess.

[A]

And we definitely pick and choose. Yeah. For other people comparing it to Scandal, I would. I would say we don't know yet. I don't think it's going to be Scandal, but I think what made Scandival so big was its longevity. Like, for how long it captured our attention. We were talking about it for months. It seemed like like a half a

[B]

year, which I feel like was because the season was still airing, so people were then watching closely of Raquel and Tom. And now you have the same scenario. I mean, the season could play out.

[A]

Like, I think that's the thing, is that we don't know how big Westgate or Skaman is going to be. It just started. I mean, I think what part of me you know, like, I'm old enough to remember Titanic being number one in theaters for, like, 20 weeks. Like, you know, no one's ever going to match that again because it just held our attention for so long. And that's what made Scandival so big is, like, it just for. We just never got sick of talking about it. And so I think we just don't know how this story is going to play out because it's still so new. And, like, do we find out a PI Was hired? Like, if so that, to me, is crazy. You know, like, that's the. Like, I've never. I only see that in movies and TV shows. Like, if that happened, I want to know every detail. How much did it cost? Who. Who went to who? Like, what did they get? You know? Like, I do want to know if Amanda and West have a breakup and, you know, whose side we take and if there is an arc for Amanda to, like, recover from this. What do you think that looks like, Rebecca?

[F]

Oh, my gosh. I think it requires a lot of time, and it requires a break, I would say, but I don't know if that's gonna happen, because we know in the City filmed in the fall, which means that it will probably air in the summer. So that's gonna be another couple months of press she probably has to do, or at least her face is in the zeitgeist. Unless, I mean, I think a way that it could work is, as we all know, something crazy could happen to someone else, and then we sort of all collectively forget, which is probably what will happen, because that's the way it always happens.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

So, yeah, I mean, I think there's absolutely a way that she sort of gets her reputation out, but I also think it's. We've never really seen Amanda as the villain. Like, for 10 seasons, she's always been sor. Like, the victim of Kyle's excesses. And, like, Kyle's, like, the mismatch has. Like, the fans have pretty much always been on Amanda's side for the most part, and so I think she still has to navigate what that looks like for her. As someone who is not really used to being put in that position, do

[A]

you think how we feel about Amanda will be mostly dictated by what we come to find out, how Sierra feels about this and whatever grace she is willing or not willing to give Amanda? Because I think also. So if we're comparing it to Skandival, part of the reason why we felt so strongly is because how strongly Ariana felt, and she was like, I never want to talk to him again. He's dead to me. Like, he. I mean, we felt and saw her anger and I think the audience responded in kind. And I kind of feel like once we start hearing from Ciara, she will dictate the grace or lack thereof that Amanda receives. What do you think about.

[F]

Yeah, no, I think that's exactly right. And I think we've seen Ciara have conflicts with people before and it usually takes her quite a while. Like, I mean, with west, it's like it's two years after their relationship last summer, their 2023 relationship. We're still watching this play out that she's only sort of beginning to sort of see him like, anew in summer 2025. And so I think with something like this, it will take so long. But obviously, you know, we've seen her have issues with some of the women in the house and now she's friends with. So it's obviously like people are. People evolve and people can forgive each other. I think it will probably take a long time. And Sierra is. Is not someone who's not going to, like, stand up for herself. Yeah, it seems.

[A]

Well, for anyone who would be upset with the idea that Amanda and. Or west would be on Traitors, I hate to say this, but, like, you're going to see Jax Taylor on your TV screen sooner than later. It's going to probably be this year, almost certainly. And just. Just bring that same energy to Jax Taylor when he comes on. On tv. Because whatever Amanda did, it was certainly nothing compared to the years of just true sinister behavior from Jax Taylor. And he will continue to get more and more chances. I want to pivot to the Bachelorette scandal. Taylor, Frankie, Paul and all the Mormon wives. We recently found out over the weekend that Dakota is going to be edited out of Vanderpump Villa. I thought that was really interesting and important news, if for no other reason. As. And I think that it gives us a little insight to the possibility of what the future holds for the Bachelorette franchise and Mormon Wives, because at least they're making a decision. They're taking a stand. And on one end, I feel like you can interpret that as, all right, well, maybe Mormon wives isn't going to come back, or maybe Taylor in Dakota won't come back, or. Or is it the production company and ABC kind of aligning with Taylor to say, hey, we're no longer allowed Dakota to kind of skate through unscathed as it regards to this scandal going on? I'm just curious, like, as someone who Interviewed Taylor Frankie Paul. Rebecca, like, what are your feelings about the future of Mormon wives and Taylor Frankie Paul?

[F]

Yeah, I mean, well, she just posted today that she's, like, leaving the Mormon Church, which I thought was really interesting. Like, we did actually, when I interviewed her, we talked a lot about God and faith and stuff. And she was like, that's the one thing in my life that's never wavered. But, yeah, I think. I mean, obviously, I think she also, when I talked to her, she was. She said she was the closest to quitting all of this than she's ever been. So I hope that the good that comes out of this maybe is that she does get a break, like a long break, maybe from either having to do press or shoot any TV shows. So I think that that could be, like, a positive outcome. I've also heard rumors that they're going to air the first six episodes that they already kind of have in the can of Mormon Wives Season 5. But also, like, you also get some of her stars, like Jessie Draper, like, posting Teasy Tiktoks with Marciano, implying that, like, they're together or something, which I'm just like, damn. Like, you guys, like, if you're not filming, like, you just like, choose this messy lifestyle, huh?

[A]

No, it is crazy. And I was thinking about it over the weekend, like, if you just compare Scamanda to the Mormon Wives drama, right on one end, Mormon Wives, you have, obviously the domestic situation. We all know how serious that is, is. Then we have the Marciano of it all who was involved in this kind of love triangle between Jesse and Demi. Then there was these accusations of potential misconduct of Marciano that was embedded into that storyline. Now you still have Jesse going back to that same Marciano guy like that. The level of scandal on Mormon Wives is so much more serious and dramatic. And yet I feel like we're talking more about Scamanda. And I just wonder if, again, it goes back to the relatability and it's just a lot easier and maybe more fun to talk about. I don't know. Because when you compare the two, there's no comparison to the heaviness of Mormon Wives compared to what's going on in the Bravo world.

[F]

Yeah, I think it's almost frustrating sometimes to watch Mormon Wives because, like, more drama goes down in one scene of that show than, like, entire seasons of, like, Housewives. Sometimes it's like they talk about, like, this really dark stuff and, like, people sleeping with other people's, like, ex husbands or baby daddies. Like, this is not like, you know, dating. Your friend dated someone two years ago, and now you're like, maybe having a situation with him. It's like, he just impregnated me, and now, like, he's having sex with my friend. But. But it's. I think with Summer House, it's like these people feel like they could be. Are. I say, R as in, like, you know, a millennial.

[A]

Sure.

[F]

Person who, like, lives in New York, whatever, but like our friends. Whereas I think the. The draw of Mormon wives was a little bit of voyeurism of, like, this culture that not a lot of us are part of or know anything about. And also the fact that it started based on, like, a swinging scandal among these, like, very, you know, lowercase C, conservative Mormon people. There was like, what's going on in that one little world? Whereas Summer House, it's like, look at these, like, fun city gals going to the Hamptons who actually like each other for the most part and have this really sweet friendship that we're root. And they deal with the same kind of guys that, you know, if you're a woman in your 20s or 30s in New York, you've definitely dated guys that are exactly like that or maybe even seen them somewhere. Whereas I just think it's a completely different kind of entertainment. So, yeah, it feels different because it's like, that could happen to you. That could maybe happen to me or, like, that has happened to me or something.

[A]

Do we think Jesse's doing this to, like, try to prove that, like, Mormon wives can continue without Taylor, Frankie, Paul? Because, like, it's. Honestly, honestly, it seems crazy that she is. I mean, to me, it's just like, we don't know what's happening with Mormon wives. We don't know what's happening with the Bachelorette, and yet all the other Mormon wives are out there just still making content and. And creating drama. And I. Part of. I feel like many of us are sitting back here watching it, being like, can they? Is this okay to do? Can they? Aren't we still, like, waiting to find out, like, what's going on with Taylor, you know, in Dakota? Is everyone okay? And yet they're out there still making content, and we're just eating it up.

[C]

I just feel like Jesse's determined because I was like, we're also leaving out the making out with Chase and then sending Miranda flowers. So I'm like, on top of going for Chase at some point, then we are like, let's call back to Marciano.

[E]

Why?

[F]

Oh, yeah. That is one sort of Theory that I have is, like, Jesse sort of auditioning to be the new Taylor. Like, we had. We had Whitney versus Taylor kind of being like, in season one and two, it's like, who's going to be the leader? And now I think Jesse, who is a fascinating person to me, is sort of like, occupying that spot. And I think it's gonna work out for her based on these actions. I'm like, I think you might be a leader now.

[A]

Yeah, maybe. And also, like, again, back to, like, what I was saying before with Amanda, it doesn't make it okay, but I. Knowing this world that these people are in, you know, again, Jesse's also someone who got out of divorce. Like, I think people in those positions often gravitate to familiar faces, like when they are exiting a stage of their life and they feel very alone. I think it's common to just connect with people you already have some type of rapport with. Like, you're the flirty guy who gives you attention. And when you add to the fact that you're a public figure and you don't know who to trust and you don't know how to date, because we're all sitting there being like, are there no other men? Are there no other people you can make out with or flirt with than other people's exes and husbands? But I think in some cases these people's universes, it might sometimes feel like there are no other options. As crazy as that sounds, I honestly feel like that's kind of the.

[B]

I don't know how much of a safe space Chase gave to Jesse for her to.

[D]

I don't know.

[A]

Safe space. But I just. I. There is clearly a familiar.

[D]

I.

[A]

Again, I'm just.

[B]

I also don't know how much familiarity the two of them have together, considering he is her. Not even, like, close friends friends, ex husband and baby daddy.

[A]

I know it sounds crazy, but she does know him. And he. I don't know. I mean, it's why you see bachelor alumni, people hook up and hang out. And it's just. There's just a lot of commonality between these people. And there's often this feeling like no one understands what it's like to be in my position. And I think that's when you get these people interacting with people only with each other, and we're all wondering, like, are there. You can't find anyone else? And I. It's. I. I think that's an element that we should at least consider playing a role in how these people are making decisions.

[F]

I also think you can blame that on the fact that dating apps are probably just so awful that everyone's like, well, even Raya sucks now, so there's not even a safe space for quasi celebrities. So it's like you just have to pick the person that's closest to you.

[A]

Rebecca, before we let you go, you also wrote a book about what we. What was it? What was the title? Like, what We Can Learn About Dating Through Love island or.

[F]

Yes, it was called Be the Bombshell. What Love Island Tells Us About Dating.

[A]

Give us a little insight. Give us a little insight. That's what our show is. Honestly, I love it because, like, we use reality tv. We use these situations with our favorite TV stars to talk about our own lives. Right? Like, to talk about. To. We see ourselves in the people we. We. We. We talk about. I honestly think the people who criticize the most are the people who remind us of us. It's so much easier to be. Be like, I've done that, but I've learned. I'm a better person. But fuck this person. They haven't learned yet. Like, the psychology of reality tv. Like, that's, that's. I love it. So I think we can definitely learn a lot by watching Love island on all the do's and don'ts of dating.

[F]

Exactly. Yeah. That was sort of like what the theme of it was. It's like. Cause Love island takes, like, random people from, like, random kind of sometimes nowhere towns and puts them in a villa together. And it's like they just happen to be really hot, but, like, they are dealing with the same stuff that everyone else is. It's like. And you watch them live in this vill that, like, you can't really ghost anybody because they're living in a house with you. And you have to watch them interact. And you can sort of like, learn from the ways they choose to and choose to not, like, communicate what they want from each other. And I just find Love island to be one of the most fascinating shows of all time.

[A]

What do you hope doesn't happen in next season of Love island compared to last season? If you, if you had. If you were. If you're a producer on Love island, what is one feedback you're giving the show that they must or must not do this season?

[F]

Well, this is my note for all of reality tv. I think it's gotten way too meta. I think they cast people that, like, know exactly. Like Ace, for instance, being like, you guys, like, are closing off too soon. It's like, well, this show is called Love Island. So, like, the goal is to sort of, like, close off really soon and, like, build a relationship. And I have the same problem with TV shows where it's like, you're not showing enough of your life, so therefore, like, you're hiding something from the camera. It's like, you don't need to sort of, like, have an. Like, create drama just for the cameras and have that be authentic. I don't think that's any more authentic than, like, trying to be, like, a little bit, like, private about certain things. And I think we need to go back to the ancient texts of reality tv where it was like, this is what I want to show. But, like, the fun is, like, sort of cracking, like, seeing the cracks beneath the surface. So, Love island. No more meta games. Just cast fun people.

[A]

All right, Rebecca, I really appreciate taking the time. It's been a lot of fun talking with you as this story continues and as more is revealed. We would certainly love to have you back and join us in these discussions, but we really appreciate you taking the time. Where can people follow you? Enjoy all the work that you're doing.

[F]

Yeah. So I'm writing for New York Magazine. You can follow me on Instagram and Twitter Bexa. But I'll be covering this lovely world just as you are, and I will be following along with you as well. So thank you so much for having me.

[A]

Thanks for coming, Rebecca. Appreciate you.

[F]

Bye.

[A]

All right, up next, we have Cynthia Bailey and Miguel Luciano to talk all things housewives.

[B]

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[A]

Let me guess, you've got a folder of saved Instagram workouts you never actually do. I know what that feels like. Been there or something else? I had been doing the same routine for years and that's where Ladder has come in. It's been super helpful. Ladder is an expert strength training plan, not a content library. These aren't influencer workouts or challenges. It's real progressive programming designed by certified coaches. It feels like you have a coach right with you. Many of their workouts you don't even need any equipment. You can take that workout with you wherever you go. On vacation, on a work trip. At home they got Pilates, they got bodybuilding where you'd only need at home. Dumbbells, Hybrid strength Glute focus programs, Kettlebells, pre and postnatal. Whether you train at home or at the gym, there's a plan for you that another thing about Ladder you can take as long as you have a device. You can take it with you to the gym or if you want to have workout equipment, you have many great workouts to do. Now with the Ladder app, it costs less than $1 a day. It feels like you have a personal trainer in your ear making sure that you're getting the most of your workouts. That was my biggest problem for working out. It's just like and I have a pretty expansive history with working out. I'm pretty comfortable with it, but I'm always like doing the same stuff. Ladder has helped me be more diverse with the type of workout I am doing. Working out out every part of my body and getting all kinds of fitness. Because now that as I'm getting older it's different workouts are required for me to feel my best self. Remove the guesswork with Ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking everything is planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to Ladder Fit V I A L L and take a quick quiz to find your perfect Ladder plan Use our link to get a free 7 day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you. You join. All right, well, it's time to dive into all things housewives. And to do that, we have the iconic Cynthia Bailey with us as well as Miguel Luciano, your favorite housewives impersonator. All right, well, let's kick things off with Real Housewives of Atlanta. Cynthia, you had, you, you kicked things off literally with the show. I mean, you had this iconic opener

[B]

flipping through the, flipping through the channels, channels. And then you turned around and you. What'd you say? You're like, like, now let's get to the real.

[E]

I said one of my favorite things to say. Now what else is going on? Now what else, Atlanta? Now what else the hell is going on?

[G]

We are back with the band that is iconic.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you. We have a new season upon us. We, we always like to ask, like, what, you know, what can we expect from this season? What will be different about this season from. From last ones and what can we

[E]

look most forward that will be different about season 17? Spicy. Season 17 is the fact that we have two new housewives. We got K. Michelle, who is hilarious. I can't wait for you guys to get into her story. And we also have Pinky Cole, who is also a great addition to the cast and funny as well. She brings a lot to the table as well. So we got two strong new housewives. That's number one. And then we got Phaedra, we got Port, we got Shamia back. We got Kelly. And of course we have Drew Sedora. Drew Sedora and Angela Oakley. And to round it all out, you know the creator of the friend contract, we got Cynthia Denise. Cheekbones baby.

[C]

Yeah,

[B]

cheekbones baby.

[G]

Perfect.

[A]

TV has Portia recovered from her early Trader's Exit? Is that something that woo.

[E]

I hope so. And I actually want, you know, as a huge fan of Traders, someone who is anxiously waiting for my phone call from Traders, I feel like Portia needs to do over. She wasn't there long enough. She was not there long enough. I was rooting for her, but, you know, it was very short lived. So I know that Portia had a lot more to bring to Traders and hopefully she'll get to spend the block.

[B]

Well, going to that dinner that Portia threw, who was Drew on the phone with the whole time and why was he on FaceTime for the entire dinner?

[E]

Well, Drew was on the phone with her friend, her special friend, Black, and he was not able to make it. My guy wasn't able to make it either. He was actually in Amsterdam. I'm not sure what part of the world Drew's man was in, but he was kind enough to zoom in.

[C]

Oh, thank God.

[E]

And sit through the entire dinner with us for three hours with a big smile on his face. So I was like, you know what? He's a real one for that. I mean, I was there in person, and three hours is a long time to be sitting with these women, but on a Zoom, it was a lot.

[A]

Why. Why did. Like, why.

[E]

He wasn't able to make it. So that was. I mean, to listen, all I can tell you is he.

[B]

He.

[E]

We were told that he was not able to be there in person, so he graciously joined us via Zoom.

[A]

Okay, was he present the whole time, or was he, like, multitasking? Was he.

[B]

No, he sat there and smiled the whole time.

[E]

He was there the whole time. He may have still been there when I left. In person.

[G]

That's crazy. With that big old chain on. Yeah, he had a huge chain on. Flavor Flav. I was like, what? I think she should have brought a friend. Like, a best friend. Like a human person in the flesh.

[E]

A neighbor.

[G]

I think a neighbor would have been good, but no.

[E]

Yeah, I mean. I mean, you know, again, if you're out of the country, that's one thing. If you just can't make it, then, yeah, maybe a human would have been, like. A human would have been. Yeah. I mean, Drew's a beautiful girl. I mean, I'm sure she has lots of options, but for whatever reason, you know, she chose the Zoom. I mean, I love a good zoom, but it was, you know, it was hilarious, actually.

[G]

It gave me who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Vibes. Like, phone a friend. I'm going to phone a friend for three hours, if you don't mind. Zoom. A friend.

[C]

So now I'm thinking, was she using him as a distraction where it's like, if I'm in the middle of a conversation, I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry. What did you say?

[G]

That's a good point. Yeah. Like, she could always have to patch it away. I'm losing reception. I got to go back to the phone call.

[B]

What did you think of Portia's timeline with Simon and when she met Mike? Like,

[E]

oh, okay, here we go. We get messy. Okay, well, what did I think about her timeline? I actually didn't think that much about the timeline until the other ladies brought it up. And then I started, like, thinking, like, was there. Is there? I. I don't remember. Well, I never met Mike until that night, so I don't know what the timeline actually is. All I know is I've never seen him before until that dinner. So I don't think there was any crossover. But, you know, that's, you know, between Portia, Mike, and God and the ghost of Simon, I guess.

[A]

Who of your castmates do you think is going to catch the most heat this season? Who of your castmates is, like, a little nervous about this season kind of airing?

[E]

Wow. Okay, so we just wrapped episode one. We have a few more to go. We have trips to go on. A lot happens throughout the season. So Drew has a lot of back and forth. Shamir Shamia has self proclaimed that she is in her villain era this season. So she has a lot of back, back and forth this season. I think for the most part, Drew and Shamia had the most, if you want to call it Heat, like they had a lot going on this season just in terms of conflict and drama.

[A]

Is there anyone of those two who you think might catch the most heat? Is there either one that you feel like the audience or fans might unfairly criticize where you maybe understand their point of view, where the audience won't, if that makes sense.

[E]

I think that the audience will definitely have a lot to say. I don't know. I kind of feel like, like Shamia definitely kind of came in the hottest, but again, she's. She's owning it. It is what it is. That's just where she is in her life and that's just how she wanted to navigate the season. And I think she's going to, you know, have to explain, you know, some of her choices and some of her decisions, for sure.

[A]

Sierra, do you have any questions for Cynthia about Atlanta coming up this season?

[C]

Shamia and Portia, I hate to see it where it's at. Do we. Are we going to get some resolve or down to the bottom of what's going on there? A repair of that friendship perhaps?

[E]

Okay, so the friendship between Portia and Shamia or the lack thereof, it's. It's a hard one to watch, you know, for me, again, as someone like, I love, you know, I'm a friend to the show, so I really strive to be. Be in a good place with all of the ladies. And, you know, I've had ups and downs with my own friendships on the show. And I will say you guys will definitely have a front row seat to how they navigate this. I will say it gets. It starts off kind of good and then it gets bad and then it gets really, really, really, really, really, really bad. So I don't want to spoil anything, but, you know, I think for me, what I would have liked to have seen is them get in just a cordial, respectful place. You know, sometimes friendships, I mean, I hate to see friendships end, but at the same time, I don't applaud being in a relationship that no longer serves the people anymore or could be toxic or whatever. So sometimes you have to move on. And even outside of the show, you know, if you, I mean, we're, we're, this, this is a friend circle, but it's also a working circle as well. So even outside of the show, if you're working a regular job and you fall out with one of your co employees, you still got to see them in the break room heating up their food in the microwave, you know what I'm saying? So we still have to be able to coexist. And I've been able to do that with my ups and downs. It's not fun. It's not comfortable having to hang out with people that you're not in a good place place with. But I think they can get to a respectful place at some point. But it's going to take a minute

[C]

and you guys will see that happening this season.

[A]

Okay?

[E]

It's going to take a lot of episodes.

[A]

Well, we will be watching them all before we let you go. Cynthia, I am curious. As someone who's got your own cast to deal with and your busy, busy life, do you have any time to follow this summer house drama, drama that's unfolding in the Bravo verse? Or are you still, are you just fully immersed in Atlanta?

[E]

Well, I am busy. However I am. I mean, I cannot miss, you know, every time I turn on my phone, I see something about what went down with the whole summer house thing. And I think that, like, I don't believe in, like, you know, it is what it is. People are people. They're gonna do what they're gonna do. And you just never know how things, things work out when you're on a reality show. But of course I felt really bad for Ciara. I felt really, really bad for her. You know, I hadn't followed her relationship with this guy or anything like that, but it seems like just the whole way it went down just seemed really foul, like a betrayal. And it seems like she was really cool with the girl. Her name is Amanda, right? She was really cool with her. Her. And I don't know, it just, it just, I, I, I feel bad for her because it Seems like it feels like. And, you know, again, I don't follow the show, like, religiously or anything like that, but it does feel like, you know, Sierra still has feelings for this man, so that. That really, really sucks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think she got. She got played by a lot of people she thought she could trust, so.

[E]

Well, to wrap it up in a nutshell, thank you, Nick, for just everything I said in a nutshell, putting it playing. Nobody wants to get played. Nobody wants to be played with, nor do they want to get played. But it, you know, it was. It's. It was hard to. To kind of, like, unpack that. I was like, dang, you know, that's messed up. It's, like, messed up for, like, to find out that he's with someone else and then to find out he's with. With her. So it was like a double.

[A]

How would you think the castmates of Atlanta would handle a scandal like this?

[E]

Has there not been one? Let me think. This is Atlanta Bank.

[B]

Yeah, this is.

[E]

I think we've handled way worse.

[C]

You said face to face.

[E]

I. I think Atlanta would. Would. Would handle it. It would definitely get handled. I. I think one of the things that. I think one of the reasons why everyone's excited for Atlanta to be back is because, you know, there's all the different franchises, but there's just the bar that Atlanta has where, you know, things happen on Atlanta that just don't happen on the other franchises. It's just a different beast. It just always has been, which is why Atlanta was on top for so long. And we're on our way back. Thank you very much. But, you know, Atlanta's like, what you got. Bring it. You know what I mean? It's just. It's a different culture. It's just a different breed, and there's nothing that Atlanta can't handle. It's going to get handled in Atlanta for sure.

[A]

Give us one word to describe K. Michelle and Pinky Cole in Atlanta this season.

[E]

Ooh, K. Michelle. Authentic.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

What you see is what you get. And Pinky, feisty, like, she's. She's. She's here. She's like. She's got a lot to say. She's very feisty. She definitely inserts herself. She is smart. She is funny. She's feisty. I. I gave. I gave her a little nickname, but I'm not going to give that away. You guys will see that coming up on other episodes. Yeah, I had to give her a little nickname. Pinky. You guys will see so feisty and authentic. Kay is who she is, I don't think. One of. One of the things I love about K is I felt like she didn't really force herself on. On us in any way. Like, you know, she just kind of slowly, you know, you just. Like, it was. If she was actually the one that it took the longest for me to get to know, she didn't. She didn't come in hot at all. And she's had a lot of experience on reality tv, but she really navigated this particular space in a way that just felt very natural and very organic. And, you know, she's great.

[D]

What did you think about K already walking off at her first dinner?

[E]

Well, I love a good walk off, but normally, you know, you got to come back and we have to finish the stuff. However, it was good timing because it was kind of toward the end of the scene and we were, like, getting ready to wrap it up. But I think K is, you know, she's made no secret. She's a fan of the show. She, you know, she knows how to navigate this space. And I think, you know, K. Michelle is just somebody who's going to just do whatever she wants to do. And again, authentic. Like, you know, Angela tried to go get her, but that didn't work out. We ended up just all going out outside with the guys.

[D]

Yeah, you guys all just follow. Do you think she'll. Do you think she'll walk out more? Do you think that that'll be authentic to her?

[E]

Okay. Kay's gonna do a lot more than walk off the season. She's gonna be. Yeah, she's gonna be doing a lot of things, for sure.

[A]

Okay.

[G]

I have to say, I love her. I love her. I want. I want 14 of them. Like, I love K Michelle. I want. I think she's a great addition to the show. And by the way, Cynthia, when you. When you were talking about that, Atlanta's always been that girl. It's true. You guys, I think, consistently have the most interpersonal, like, dynamic relationships. Most of the women have really strong personal narratives. There's always comedy and drama, which some shows don't have.

[F]

Yes.

[G]

But you guys are always like, I actually laughed out loud this morning watching the episode, which I haven't done in most of the recent franchises, to be really honest.

[E]

Yeah, no, it's. It's true. Atlanta's different. Like, I've had an opportunity to shoot with some of the other franchises, like Beverly Hills, and it's like, I'm like, oh, my God. This is.

[A]

The vibe is different.

[E]

Like, the drama, their drama. Is so small compared to the stuff that happens on Atlanta. Like, Atlanta is, is just, you know, I mean, it'd be a dream to go and fight about some of the stuff some of the other people fight about, because it's just not that, you know, it just don't hit as hard. Like, Atlanta is the, you know, Atlanta goes for the juggler, the real deal. It's like, it's, it's tough. It's. Atlanta's not easy. Everyone's not built for Atlanta. Which is why it's kind of nice for me to be a friend this season because, you know, I've been, you know, been on Atlanta for over a decade, but as a friend, this, this, you know, season, it's, you know, I, I, you know, I, I do catch a couple of strays. Like, I tried to stay out of it, but I definitely caught a couple of strays. And I had had to like, you know, get activated a couple times as well. I was even like, wait, I thought the friends were off limits. What's happening? But in Atlanta, they're like, you're over here. You know, you can get the smoke as well.

[G]

City cents out.

[E]

Yes. Yeah, I got a little smoke and I also gave a little smoke. So, you know, again, I'm excited. I'm just excited to see this new cast. And I think that, you know, I went online this morning, seems like the fans are excited, excited. It just feels like something a little new, a little different, and almost like a breath of fresh air. So I'm, I'm just really happy that I had a front row seat. And I can't wait for you guys.

[A]

It's already topping the charts on Peacock. I think it's number two right now. And that's after yes on Bravo. So people are, are definitely enjoying it already. Cynthia, appreciate you taking the time and giving us some insight on what we can expect for next season. Please let my audience know where they can follow you. Obviously you have humble brag with Crystal Minkoff every week. Be sure to tune into that. And where else can they find you, Cynthia?

[E]

Oh, I, I got a lot going on, but right now my focus is, you know, the new season. We, we want to make sure that we let you guys know Atlanta's back on top and it's going to be a fun and entertaining season. And of course, humble brag is where my heart is with my girl Crystal Kung. And I got a movie coming out, but, you know, I'll talk to you guys more about that. I got a Lifetime movie coming out this year. And, you know, are you acting, producing,

[A]

directing, all of the above?

[E]

I'm doing it all. I'm doing it all. And, oh, you guys got a chance to see my guy, Amsterdam. They showed a little shot of Amsterdam on the first episode.

[C]

That's right.

[E]

You know, no one, you know, you see him in real life with me, but, you know, he, you know, he popped pops in a little bit this season with me, so.

[A]

All right, Cynthia, well, you know, you have to get going. You're busy. We appreciate you taking the time. It's always great to talk with you.

[E]

All right, love you guys.

[A]

Well, Atlanta seems like it's going to be messy, as usual.

[C]

It's so good for episode one. Like, every minute was just give me more of it.

[G]

A perfect premiere episode, if you will.

[C]

Amen. Good.

[D]

It felt like the situationship Olympics of Atlanta, and it was beautiful. And for it all to be in

[G]

Simon's home and the ghost of Simon permeating throughout the home was amazing.

[D]

The ghost of Simon Mike telling everyone, thank you for coming.

[G]

Oh, my God. So good. But K. Michelle really, to me, was the standout.

[D]

Oh, she's incredible.

[A]

What a woman.

[G]

K. Michelle as. And I don't know the lore of K. Michelle, I found out just a little bit that apparently she was that girl on Love and hip hop.

[C]

Her sit down with Portia on the couch, where I was like, I'm just meeting you, and somehow we've already gone through, like, elements of vulnerability to, like,

[D]

humor, baggage with, like, other women in Atlanta. I was like, she came ready to play Lost it in the Boy's Wall.

[G]

He was, like, looking into the camera, like, mm. And I was like, okay, Michael Scott up in this bitch. I think she's.

[D]

She might rip Dru Sidor to shreds accidentally, though. And I just.

[G]

I think we need that. I like Dru. I have no problem with Dru. But I think K. Michelle slaying a dragon is kind of the thing right now.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. And then Pinky, I. That's a diva after my own heart. I love her so much.

[G]

You know, I don't have a read on her yet. I'm kind of like, I get the vibe. I see what's going on here. I don't have a personal connection to her yet, but I do think we're on the. The right track, I think.

[D]

I'm curious what you guys think about it. I feel like what works for me, for both of them as additions at the same time, is they're both, like. I say, and I say this as the Utmost compliment. In the same way that, like, Kathy Hilton is, like, your oddball. They kind of brought in two seemingly oddballs into the cast, and I think it, like, shakes it up a lot, and they're a little bit more like, I don't know, like, weird.

[G]

Pinky's quirky.

[D]

Quirky. Quirky is the right.

[G]

I think the word you're looking for is quirky. Yeah. Pink. He's definitely quirky. And K. Michelle's not quirky, but she's whimsical. There's, like, a whimsy to her where she's kind of like, oh, well, okay. Like, there's, like, a funny sort of vibe to her.

[C]

She has an aura about her that. That you've never seen before and is not going to be replicated completely.

[G]

She does bring a certain vibe to the function, which I think Atlanta could definitely use a little bit of. Whatever K. Michelle is.

[C]

Now I'm interested. Like, I'm happy that Angela came back. I didn't want to ask Cynthia because

[F]

I didn't want to put her in

[C]

a weird spot, but I was just like, why? Watching Angela and Charles this first episode for me was kind of like, may this love never find me.

[G]

Oh, no.

[C]

I'm sorry. But I'm just like. I'm very interested to see their dynamic grow, because last season, it was kind of the same thing, too. But it's like, anytime she tries to be, like, cutesy with him or being like, yeah, you wanted to take me home the first. He goes, no, I didn't. And I'm like, girl, can you just play along?

[D]

I think, well, you saw K. Michelle and Charles Bond because K. Michelle was

[C]

like, he's an asshole.

[D]

He's an asshole.

[G]

I love assholes.

[D]

And I was like, you know what? I get Charles Oakley. I think I. He's. He's like, Todd. You know, it's like the kind of, like, curmudgeony guy that I'm like, she loves him.

[G]

She's into it. She likes it. Yeah. If you all of a sudden change, she'd be like this, like, why are

[D]

you being nice to me?

[G]

Yeah, yeah. She likes that. Kind of.

[A]

You have to understand the lore of Charles Oakley. He was, like, the enforcer in the 90s. Yeah. And in the NBA, when the NBA was like a different game, he was like the bad boy of the NBA.

[G]

I think he's still the bad boy of Atlanta because he.

[A]

Well, yeah, but, like, the fact that he's not, like, showing up, like, let's do a scene. You know, he's like, he's reluctantly, begrudgingly there because he loves his woman and she wants to be a housewife. And he's like, I guess, fine.

[C]

Yep. In that first scene, like, when it was just the two of them, she's like, touch my booty. And he was like, no. It's like, why?

[D]

It's just funny watching this man who's like, probably screamed at Dennis fucking Rodman on the court before, like, get a little uncomfy being intimate with his wife on camera.

[C]

Bad boy can't show love.

[G]

I think that's what it is that he's kind of like, I'm not going to like, get all, like, bricked up right now in front of the camera. Like, that's what I think it is.

[C]

I mean, I want to see it. I need to see it. I need to see one moment that

[F]

I'm like, Angela, I get it.

[C]

I need.

[F]

At this point, I need to.

[G]

I mean, I'm obsessed. Obsessed with Angela Oakley. By the way, I think R. HOA is Real Housewives orbiting Angela. Oh, wow.

[C]

Like, that.

[G]

I told her that at BravoCon. I'm like, that she needs to be the center peach. The world needs to revolve around her. Like, I'm a huge Angela Oakley fan.

[A]

She's my favorite of Angela and Charles. Angela's definitely my favorite.

[G]

Right.

[A]

I mean, outside of Cynthia.

[G]

So good.

[A]

But, like, I just.

[G]

Yeah, but Cynthia's. I like, OG Icon. Legendary in her own category. So I get what you're saying.

[D]

Angela does feel like a new addition housewife who feels like she's been on the show for years.

[A]

Yes.

[E]

Yeah, that.

[G]

And I think that happens when you're of a certain age and. Which I prefer. Like, that's my problem with Rhode island, which we'll get to in a second. They all feel like they're in their 30s. And that's very hard for me.

[A]

Really? You're not. You're not with Rhode Island.

[G]

I like Rhode Island. I. I am. I just think there's too many young girls from my personal taste. Like, I like a woman has a little bit more of a life. These, like, these girls, most of them are super young. They're like three or four girls that are in their 30s or they look like it and they act like it. So it's like I like, like women on the show that are a little bit more, you know, like the Angela's. Right. Akima show is a little younger. But that's why my favorite on Rhode island is Liz.

[C]

Yeah.

[G]

Because I'm like, okay. Liz is like, what we're talking about. This is a character.

[D]

Yes.

[G]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

We already have a polyamorous relationship going on Rhode Island.

[G]

Allegedly. Allegedly. I thought, okay, now we're talking. Now we're cooking with some butter. But I liked Rhode Island. You know what I will tell you about Rhode island that I did enjoy is that everyone has a very full life. Yeah, that I did. Like, everyone has a full life, and there's, like, we could probably unfold lots of things with all of these women. I didn't find Rhode island very funny, which was. I kind of was like, okay, I didn't laugh that much, which is a bummer for me. Yeah, I know. But. But, you know. Okay. So are you being paid by Rhode Island?

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, one of my dearest friends, Ashley Ayakoneti, is a housewife, so I do want to see it.

[G]

So you've got stock. I get it. No, I think the show is great. I'm just. I guess also here's a problem, too, is that I saw it three days after everyone talked about it. So the hype was, like, it is incredible. It's amazing. So I'm like, all right, I'm ready. Like, let's see this. And I was hoping to be a little. To just laugh, and I just did it. I was like, okay, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on here. I think that halfway through the season, I'm gonna be really invested because all of these relationships are gonna really peel back the layers, and we're gonna be like, okay, there's all the there there, you know?

[A]

But, yeah, I'm just wondering, knowing Ashley and Jared, how they're gonna navigate, like, if things really take off and it gets messy. And I don't know which women have what storyline lines, but I. I just know Ashley and Jared are just, like, some of the most loveliest, nicest, normal, and the best possible way type of people. So I am just, as a friend and fan, fascinated with how they will immerse themselves into Bravo lore. Jar is just, like, one of the nicest, kindest people, period. And now he's like a house husband and a group of, you know, like, when we're used to talking about, like, some of the guys in Orange county, you know, or it's just like, some of the husbands are, like, outside of Terry Debro, who's a king, and I love him.

[B]

And Eddie.

[A]

Oh, Eddie.

[G]

Yeah, I'm an Eddie fan.

[A]

Yeah, I've. I've met Eddie. He's lovely. I don't know too Much about Eddie.

[G]

Like, have you seen my Eddie impersonation?

[A]

No.

[D]

No. Please.

[G]

Nick, are you ready for my Eddie?

[A]

Smile, please.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

So good. Yeah, that's him.

[D]

Excellent.

[E]

Yes, that's my opinion.

[G]

But you see, your. Your friend Jared seems almost like he would be on Summer House or on, like, a show with young people. That's why I think it threw me off, because I was like, all of these people are so young and sort of almost like they seem like a very normal couple. She's like a normal girl that, like, fell into, like, housewife dumb almost. That's so. I'm not saying I don't like it. I'm just. It's an adjustment.

[B]

Her ripping her nails off, sitting at the coffee shop talking to James. I was like, bitch. That is so.

[D]

I love that.

[G]

You love that.

[D]

I loved that because I'm like, as someone who, if I paint my nails or if I have press ons on, they're coming off anywhere. If I feel it in the moment, especially if, like, I can imagine her in that moment, like, filming a scene, and then it's like they're talking about their personal life and she's, like, anxious about it, and so she's just peeling her nails off. And now that's on camera.

[G]

It's definitely authentic.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And she brought Duncan. I'm like, that is a real one.

[C]

I've never.

[D]

I've never been like, yeah, that's like one of my girls on Housewives necessarily, which I think is fun. It's interesting.

[G]

So you. You kind of. You don't mind a Housew? That feels very real and relatable to you.

[D]

Yeah, because I think usually I'm watching Housewives as I'm like, these divas. You know what I mean? Like, they're the older women. They're like, my. My mom's. My, like, aunts, whatever. And now I see. I'm like, oh, that's my sister. You know what I mean? Which is usually how I feel like watching, like, a summer house. But it's fun to be like, oh, I guess it's like, let me see what, like, someone like my sister could do to these older, like, to these women. And it's really interesting, but.

[A]

But I'm excited to see what the 30, 40 somethings do, because I think, like, we see in Summer House, like, that's a time in your life that people talk about midlife crisis and things like that, right? Where you're not. You're not in your 20s anymore, where you have, like, the freedom to around and find out or you're not. Like later in life where you've calmed down a little bit, you have that perspective, you know, that 30s and 40s is when you, like, maybe your marriage does slow down. You lose connections with your, with your partner partner. Maybe the sex has gone out of your relationship, but you still want to keep that relationship going. So you maybe dabble in, you know, non traditional marriages and things like that where, you know, you just, you're still young enough to crave the drama, but you're, you're, you're too old to be a part of the drama anymore. And I feel like that's what you're kind of getting from, like, that's what makes this scandal, I think, so compelling because we're ultimately talking about adults who should know better. And I think when we watch her from that lens and they're really messy and they're kind of operating like they just got out of college. To me, that's some of the best reality tv. Like, that's why we love Mormon wives, because you have these seemingly adult women. Granted, they're like in their kind of mid-20s, but they're like living a lifestyle of more mature adult. Right. Like they're not doing the summer house, go to the Hamptons and party on the weekend and dj, they're slowing down, they're settling down. And yet there's that part of them that's there that doesn't want to slow down and they still want to be messy and go out. And I think that's where you get some of the best reality TVs. So I'm kind of, I'm, I like that it's younger on Rhode island because again, like you have the Orange county and you have the Beverly Hills Housewives franchise to like, to have more like, less drama, more just like, you know, it's, oh, you turn on Beverly Hills, you get to see Rodeo Drive and it's nostalgic and things like that. You know, like, I need to unpack a throuple relationship.

[G]

No, I definitely need to unpack a throuple I, that I, I'm in, I'm in total agreement with the storylines. I'm, I'm into what's going happen to come down. I'm into that and I'm ready for it.

[A]

I am.

[G]

I don't want you to think I'm not on board. It's just, it took me a second to go, okay, but I'm into it. I, I saw it and I was, I had my eyes open the entire time. It was one of those, like. Okay.

[C]

And I think there's, like, a nice range that I'm interested to see how it all comes together. Because I'm like, you've got Ashley, who kind of seems, like, very, like, genuine and just, like, wants to, like, make friends and figure out her footing and wrote a Island. And then you've got someone like Rosie who's like, literally saying in her. In her interviews, like, I'm lying straight to her face. Because that's what we do in Rhode Island. Like, you know what I mean? Like, clearly, like, we just watched her start a bunch of shit, and I'm just like, it's gonna be interesting seeing, like, these. These types of people all come together,

[F]

because I don't feel like this is,

[C]

like, a very strong group of friends. I feel like it's more casting.

[G]

Well, I mean, I feel like they actually. I get what you're saying, but I think the good thing is, is that they all know each other or they know each other's lore.

[C]

They know of each other.

[F]

Yeah.

[D]

So small.

[G]

Yes. And if they don't know the person, they know their best friend or they dated the person from the tanning salon, like, that I did enjoy a lot.

[C]

Yeah.

[G]

Was that they all have, like, connections that are deep and personal, which I think is going to help the show a lot. Because even if I'm not that close with you, you're super close to my cousin.

[C]

Yeah.

[G]

So if you say something, it just changes the dynamic of, like, what I think your perspective of me is. What my perspective of you is based off the fact that your brother dated my neighbor or whatever. So I think that's the strongest aspect of Rhode island right now is that they really go back.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

If I may wax po about the Real Housewives of Rhode island for just one second, I do think it does have the potential to be. If Salt Lake City is, like, the true crime, you know, prestige Bravo series, then this, the Real Housewives of Rhode island is Grey Gardens in the way that, like, if you guys have ever seen Grey Gardens, it's that, like, generational divide with, like, Edie and little Edie. And they're also. Because they're from this small place.

[G]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

And then you have Ashley, who's kind of like that outside figure of, like, watching it all go down. And I think it's like a very smartly put together show that if they, like, strike that, like, the whimsy of, like, K. Michelle that you were bringing up, like, that's Liz.

[E]

Because they love it.

[G]

Liz is Amazing. I need Liz in every scene that they ever do forever. Like, I'm a huge fan of Liz.

[D]

The queen of We.

[F]

The queen of Liz and Dolores.

[G]

Oh, my God, the two twins. And I really like you. Wait. I really like Liz and I really like Alicia. Alicia's the one with the. That we saw in the first episode. Pizza Mama. I like her a lot. I think she's really great. And really, there's a lot that I'm. I'm really into it. I like them all, but those are my. The two that I guess when I look at it from a comedic standpoint, because that's really why I watch it.

[A]

Yeah.

[G]

Those are the two that are inspiring me the most to, like, bring them to life. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Liz. I'm already where she's got a little bit of the eyes, you know, which I really like. The queen of Wheat. I don't know. There's. There's a there there with Liz that I'm like, okay. All right, Mama.

[A]

My biggest question for Beverly Hills this episode was, did Dorit pay for that photo shoot?

[G]

Well, I'm sure that they all want

[A]

to know, but here's why I want to know. It's unclear because you would think maybe the, you know, the book company or her book deal, but I don't think think the book paid for that photo shoot because a little bit I know about, like, celebrity book deals. There's not a ton of money in it. It's more of a branding thing. And according to Dorit, while she gave her confessional, she hasn't even, like, finished writing the book. And usually, like, I did a photo shoot for my. My book. Like, I paid the photographer to do it. Like, there might have been a really small budget, if any budget, but that was a huge. That was a huge production that she had.

[B]

There was, like, crafty D's in the corner.

[A]

Yeah. And I honestly wonder if she hired her. Like, she put on her own photo shoot and spent that money, or did Bravo pay for it because they filmed it and had other cast members there? Because that was easily like, a 15, $20,000 production.

[C]

One of two things. One, I think she did pay for that. Sibel is a really well known photographer. She's the one that did the, like, Megan Fox photos in the trees looking like a fairy. Like, she's got a very specific style. She's shot a lot of my friends. I'm. She's expensive and she's. I don't think Bravo's paying for that also. I know that because I am Listening to Lisa Rinna's book, and she tells. She spills a lot of tea and

[F]

she says, like, a lot of shit

[C]

is not covered by bravo. There's no world in which bravo is going to be down to pay for a 10, $15,000 photo shoot for her book that they're not getting.

[A]

But isn't that. I mean, we've talked so much about Dorit's spending and her subsequent divorce that she's going through. And I'm watching this photo shoot with where it's clear, like, she spent all this money on something that, like, she didn't need to do for the COVID of her book. And, like, her.

[B]

Has the book come out? Do we know?

[A]

I think. I think the book has come out.

[G]

Yeah, I think. I don't think it has. I would have.

[A]

It hasn't come out yet.

[G]

I thought the photo still looked great. Whether she paid for or not, I thought what we ended up seeing looks great.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

I think she thinks she's gonna make it back anyways. But I'm also like, that's worth Kyle being concerned or whatever is that she did spend some of her advance on a Kelly bag, so. Which Hermes Coming out tomorrow.

[G]

It's coming out tomorrow.

[D]

Unburdened.

[C]

Unburdened.

[D]

Unburdened.

[G]

To answer your question, Nick, my personal opinion is I think that she probably paid for it out of pocket. And I think that maybe there was some negotiation. Like, it's exposure, maybe not the sale needs it. But, you know, it doesn't hurt to be on an international TV show.

[A]

Even if she got the photographer to do it for free, she still spent $20,000.

[B]

There were so many assistants and, like, people there.

[E]

Yeah.

[G]

I mean, Dorit is a fascinating woman to me. I will never understand, like, a lot of the things that. That she does, but I'm obsessed with watching her recently. So I kind of. I'm like, keep doing everything you're doing. I want to see it all. Like, I am really. Dorit. Took a while. It took a while for me to get on the Dorit train, but I am on, and I really don't want to get off. I'm okay if. And I know that that's kind of a minority opinion. Like, I think a lot of people are not enjoying her.

[F]

Oh, I love.

[G]

I'm loving me. So what are you thinking, Nick and Natalie?

[B]

I mean, up until this episode where she went absolutely delusional and lost me, and I could not side with her, not even in, like, the slightest bit.

[G]

On what?

[B]

This dinner where she walked out on the last dinner in Italy.

[G]

Yeah, that was hard to watch for sure.

[B]

I mean, how are you going to look at your friend and be like you're going through a fuck ton. Like you're going to question Erica. Jane is going through a lot. Really? She doesn't talk to me about, about it's like, clearly, but. And Kyle's point of being like, but you read the news like you've seen the headlines. You know what's going on in her life. And like, just because she doesn't come to you and talk about it doesn't mean it's not going on in her life. Like Erica being like, I talked to my therapist about it, which is like the healthiest way to go about dealing with this type of stuff. And Dorit's like, I just like, I don't believe that you're going through a lot. Is. Was absolutely bonkers.

[G]

It was a weird take for sure, but it was. I agree with that. Like watching it, I was like, this is not. Dorita's not thinking clearly in this moment is what I said to myself. I was like, she's not seeing herself clearly. She can't actually understand how she's coming across and she's in such a weird survival mode that she doesn't care. Like she said, I don't care. And like, I don't agree with what she did. Especially because we've seen Erica straight up be a real friend to Dorit. For many. I mean, the Fox Force five was like impenetrable. They could do no wrong. And they all had each other's back and now they're all eating, they're eating their own right? But the reason why, I guess I find the, the, the fight so interesting. And not as much like I'm just team Eric on this, I'm team both of them is because Dorit, I think, really cannot see herself, which makes it fascinating for me. I'm like, wow, you really are not getting how you're coming across right now. She's seeing it as, fuck it, I'm self preserving. I've been taking shit for years and I'm done, done. And it's not reading that way to anyone.

[C]

I also kind of feel like that dinner though was like one thing after another and to be in like Dorit's shoes or putting myself in that place, right? Like, it's like we're all fighting about coming up with one thing, one thing. Then it's about being late all of a sudden and then I'm just kind of like first it's oh, it's between her and kyle. And about the friendships and the fact that kyle is going around talking to everyone to solidify a singular opinion on dorit's behavior, but not talking to dorit about it. I think she has a fair point there. But then when all of a sudden it came to Erica being like, well, everyone's pissed at you because you're late. I'm like, okay, now this fight has shifted from different person to different person on a completely different topic. So, like, I too would probably feel very defensive and be like, yeah, nobody has my back here, clearly, besides this person. Because now everybody's all of a sudden saying that the whole table is talking about you behind your back. None of these people are your friend. Everybody's mad at you, but nobody has the balls to say it to your face. And I'm like, I think that's a lot of information process when you're trying to deal with one situation and then it gets pivoted to your other friend who then is now taking something offensively that I think dorit said flippantly. I don't think she was trying to, like, narrow out the fact that erica hadn't been there for her as a friend, But I think the conversation was bose talking most of the time. So I just kind of feel like. I think it was a lot of misguided anger where I'm like, if this conversation had ended and then we moved on to this conversation later on, I think that that wouldn't have escalated the way that it did.

[G]

Yeah. The only thing I will add to that is that I have learned through watching these shows and being in the atmosphere in the world that every fight is about the show. Like, it's never about anything else other than the show. So things that seem like there's tension between the friendship, it's not. It's about a show. It's a show related problem. And beverly hills is the one show that I find has the most secrets and masks. So the tension that was happening at that scene was not about. In my opinion. This is just my opinion. Was not about dorit being late. Was not about any of that. They've got their own cracks in the friendships. We'll never know because they're never gonna talk about. Kyle has a life she does not talk about on the show. That's it. Their friendship and their alliance and how their alliances and the things that they've kept. Like when dorit said, I could bring her down or I could end her life or I could blow it up. I think the phrasing was, I could blow it up. They have so much going on that they don't talk about on the show. So the fights we're watching are. And the tension. We're seeing real tension, but the fights are not what the tension's about. So all of this is pointless. In my mind, I'm watching the scene thinking, I wonder what they're really fucking fighting about. I wonder what they're. I wonder what they're really upset about. Because it's not about this and it's not about that and it's not about that. They have issues that go far longer and deeper than this shit. And that's why you're seeing Erica cry, because. And Kyle getting so worked up and Dorit being like, fuck this and fuck you guys. It's not about the late and it's not about the kid. That's my opinion.

[B]

Well, we did hear Dorit tell Erica, like, when I told you that you needed to bring it and have more material, I didn't mean to be a. And that was her being like, you needed to bring more to the show, and it didn't mean being mean to me.

[G]

Yeah, like, see, there's. It's always about. It's always about the show. Their issues are always about the show. And Kyle and dorit, as I've said famously on this show, they do not like each other. They have never liked each other. Kyle does not like Dorit, and Dorit does not like Kyle, and they have never liked each other.

[A]

You don't think they ever have?

[G]

I don't think they've ever. I don't think, in my personal opinion, they have ever liked each other. I think they were in Beverly Hills and everyone says, oh, my God, you look gorgeous. Oh, my God, great. Come over. And they just, like, we're playing nice for thousands of years. They do not like each other. Dorit and Erica, I actually think like

[A]

each other from Dorit standpoint. I. I will say, like, the fact that Kyle is still, like, friends with PK even through mo, it would be like, to me, like, Dorit just can't. And I get it. She can't get over that because it always. Whether Kyle means it or not, she always just sounds like she's kind of taking PK side, even when Kyle's trying to be objective or, like, giving, like, dorit, like, what she thinks is useful advice. It just sounds like, no, you're just taking my piece of shit ex husband's side. And your ex husband, who you're, like, still best friends with is like his best mate. And she just doesn't trust anything that Kyle says. And that I totally get.

[G]

I completely agree with that. I would be really upset if I were dorit on how Kyle handled the whole thing. And let's be clear, when she says I would never talk about anything we've ever spoken about is obviously, I'm talking. You've told me shit about dorit or things you don't want anyone to know. And I won't tell you, and I won't. I won't tell anyone that. But the bottom line is that Kyle has always been male centered. If you go back and look at the seasons, if you're a real Beverly Hills fan, Kyle's. I don't know if she was raised that way or whatever it is, but she definitely has a male centered perspective on things. And she repeats very often that she's a girl's girl. Yeah, I'm a girl's girl. Did you know? I'll put a gun to your head. I'm a girl's girl.

[D]

Yeah.

[G]

And I'm not saying she's not. I do believe she's probably a really good friend to her girlfriends, but I don't think think she's. I mean, a real girls girl would not ever in any reality of any universe text a meme to someone. I mean, to quote Alexia from Miami, I don't even follow Steve on Instagram. She doesn't follow on Instagram. When they were talking about alliance.

[D]

My grand. If my grandma, my grandpa got divorced, I would unfollow my grandpa.

[G]

Yeah. Larissa Pippen is a girl's girl.

[D]

Exactly.

[G]

So Kyle doesn't have the best read on herself in this particular situation. And I like Kyle, by the way. Yeah, by the way.

[A]

Well, you know, it's like when people call themselves loyal. You know, it's like when it's. When it's happening to you, you always have a different version of the story or a reason why it's different.

[G]

Well, the one phrase I hate that people call themselves is when they call themselves charismatic. They're like, I've heard people do that. I'm like, that's the weirdest thing to call yourself.

[A]

I'm a big personality.

[G]

I've got a great personality. You're like, okay, okay, it's getting weird. But I still gotta get this watch. Bling Bling is mad. But, you know, I want to be truthful here and say that as much as this, basically this entire season of Beverly Hills was not great, the last couple of episodes have been wildly entertaining for me. Am I right? No, no.

[A]

Last night's episode, I'm entertained. Yeah.

[B]

Nobody wanted to tell dorit she had a hornet in her hair sitting at that table.

[C]

That was wild to watch. It just slowly, like, coming back up and then gone. And I was like, where to go?

[A]

You know what I think that is, though? I'm thinking about, like, a bad break I had years ago, you know, And I kind of, like, was just in my feelings and I was. I felt sorry for myself and I kind of distanced myself from my friends and I wouldn't go out with them. And honestly, my friends kind of got sick of me, you know, because I was always constant complaining about, like, all the shit that was unfair or why I was a victim. And I kind of feel like that's how the rest of the cast is feeling about dorit. Like, they might feel sorry for her, but I feel like they're kind of tired of her feeling sorry for her herself and sending herself as a victim in this situation. And I think they're just kind of getting annoyed with her.

[G]

Yeah. And dorit has a. Is very good at focusing on herself. Like, she's. She's good on that. Like, she's good at, like, walking in with herself, being the center. And I think that's a cast of probably women that are used to also all being the center.

[E]

Yeah.

[G]

So, I mean, it's not a cast. It's not a cast that's short of, like, confident, self focused women. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not like there's a lot of wallflowers on that cast and they're like, I'm happy to let you go. Why don't you be the whole court? It's not like it's a huge.

[C]

You know, but I will say, if you got rid of dorit, what would Kyle's storyline be?

[D]

Yeah, she might actually have to be honest.

[C]

She didn't bring, like, her entire storyline this season was dorit.

[A]

Well.

[G]

And I mean, poor Amanda when Amanda

[A]

was like, well, that wasn't productive.

[G]

That wasn't productive. I. I also don't hate Amanda.

[A]

Like, I don't hate Amanda at all.

[G]

I don't think Amanda hate is a little forced. I'm. I'm into her. I think she's a great housewife. Whether. Yeah, sometimes she says that's out of pocket and whack. Like, I would not be talking about the fact that you make more money than your husband. I wouldn't like it if a husband said it about his wife, like I. I just. That's kind of. I don't like. And she does do things I do not like. But as a general rule I don't dislike her and I do think she's harmless and I think she's kind of a refreshing, weird energy on the show. And I do think they don't like that she's happy. Cuz I do think she's actually kind of happy.

[C]

Happy. Yeah.

[G]

And I think it pisses them off because none of them are that happy right now. Kyle's not that happy.

[A]

Yeah, that's a great point.

[G]

Yeah. I think Erica's working on being okay. Like she's like in therapy. She's managing herself better. She's got great reactions to things. And then Dorit is of course on hot coals trying to get to the cool side of every day.

[C]

Yeah.

[G]

And Bose is in whatever she's doing with Keely or whatever. Who I cannot say that I trust.

[C]

Right.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Propositioning to not work anymore.

[G]

Yeah. I'm not into that. So I think Amanda's kind of like free and happy and I think. And it also. She does have an unnerving unshakability to her, which I do want to. I want to shake her. I want to see her crash out or I want to see her cry. Not cry. I don't want to see her cry. I want to see her like throw her wig off. Like I need. I want to see her unravel a little bit. I do want to see that. Like I think we've done the put together manifestation princess. I like it. I want range. I want.

[D]

I want her to use her manifestation powers for evil.

[G]

Yeah, kind of. And I also want the Oklahoma in her to come out. You would not say that in Oklahoma. What would you say then? Show us how Oklahoma would show up at the table.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You and Taylor Armstrong girl.

[G]

Yeah. Come on, like give me something. Cuz I do get bored. Like Amanda.

[D]

Take her out back and go Oklahoma.

[G]

And also. Exactly. And you know what I think is also Amanda's problem too? Is that Amanda's not quirky enough. Cuz people would totally be into her if she were a total crazy ass.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

If she like bedazzled things as well. I had a tooth Gem. Yes.

[G]

If she was a little. A little bonkers, I think people would be like, I don't really get her. But okay. But since she reads sort of normal ish. And she's like, absolutely. And it's like, no. She could be like Whitney Rose's cousin from Oklahoma. She's a little wide eyed and doe eyed. So if she were a little quirkier, I think people might be more into her. But also what I will say about Amanda, too, that I think is a really interesting thing, is that people do not like that she doesn't apologize for being okay and polished and peaceful. Like, a lot of people would prefer you be successful and happy if they knew how hard you've worked.

[B]

Yeah.

[G]

If you apologize, like, or if you feel like, I earned this because I. And she's like, no, I'm good, period.

[D]

I manifested this for myself.

[G]

Yes. And a lot of people struggle with that. Like, people are happy if you succeed. If they know that, like, well, it wasn't always like this.

[D]

As long as you're humble.

[E]

Yes.

[A]

Or if there's like a million other people to think.

[D]

Yeah.

[G]

Yeah. So I think there's something I would say about. I do. I'm cool with Amanda just being happy, even if there's no there there. Because I don't need someone to suffer so that they can earn their joy. Like, earn your abundance. You don't have to have been like, I don't need you to be a first generation American. My parents, you know, like, we're taught, like, you have to work so hard to be happy and you have to work so hard to be joyful. And like, these are my scars that prove it. Like, you know what? Maybe she's just like, whatever she's gone through, I don't need her to justify it for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[G]

And I think people do have a hard time not just how housewives, fans, people in general. Like, a lot of people are haters. A lot of people don't want people to do well and they'll maybe think it's okay if you've, like, done a lot to get it.

[C]

Yeah.

[G]

If you hear that someone just grows up in wealth, most people get pissed. I'm like, I don't. I didn't grow up wealthy. I grew up single mom, you know, household. But if you're rich, great. Like, I. Because I'm good with me.

[C]

You know, I'm jealous.

[G]

Yeah. But something.

[C]

I'm not hating. I'm just jealous.

[A]

Yeah.

[G]

But some people really struggle with that. So I think Amanda's like, like lack of apology and being like, I'm here and it is good. I'm actually cool with it. And I don't see it as bragging. I don't like what she says about her husband. I don't like some of the other shit that she says. But as a General rule. Her whole stance on abundance and freedom and joy and my life is. Looks good because it is. I'm like, you know what? Fuck yeah.

[D]

All right, money queen.

[G]

All right, money queen. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[G]

I might buy her book. Well, I'm buying Dorit's book cuz I got to pay for that photo shoot. Baby, she does have to pay for that photo shoot, but the photo shoot,

[A]

if she did pay for that photo shoot, it just. She definitely is bad at money.

[D]

Like, I don't think she needs to talk to Amanda.

[A]

I don't think she's ever, like, looked at her bank account versus the price tag and thought, not today.

[G]

Yeah, you know, I again, I find Dorit endlessly fascinating. So I'm like, whatever she's doing, I kind of, from just a spectator perspective, I'm like, keep doing you.

[D]

Yeah, don't stop.

[G]

And by the way, I think. Think she looks amazing that she's so hot. She's so hot and so put together and so. And like, I am not a fan of cigarette smoke. I'm not a fan of smokers, but I'm like, Dorit with that cigarette.

[A]

Do you think they told her to light up, Be like, hey, let's get this shot.

[G]

You know, I think she had it

[C]

in her hand the whole time.

[G]

No, I think whoever's choice, it was hers or the producers or the cinematographer, whoever it was. Chef's kiss.

[D]

I think Dorit was thinking about that cigarette the whole night. That's how much.

[G]

I mean, she's stressed the fuck out. Yeah, she is stressed the fuck out out, you know, so she's probably thinking about a cigarette every hour. Smokers smoke pretty often. It's not. You know, I have friends that when they, like, are going through a period of deep anxiety, they will smoke, you know, every 30 minutes they're going outside. So, I mean, think about all those people with the jewel with their jewels. They're like fiends, you know, so poor Dorit needs a cigarette, you know? And you know what, baby?

[D]

Let her live her life.

[G]

She's unburdened. She's unburdened the whole. Erica, I mean, I have to say, I got to say one more time, this. This is what working for me, this Erica, Durie, Kyle situation, as. It's juicy. It's juicy. That's all I can say. It's juicy.

[D]

Well, one last thing I did want to say is that this is from Justin. He's not here right now, but he did want to say that he doesn't think Beverly Hills is back he thinks it never left.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

He wanted me to share that.

[A]

Justin is the Beverly Hills Stan of all stands.

[G]

I think it takes all kinds to make the world go round. I'm cool with him being on that train. You know, I like Justin a lot. So I'm gonna rewatch the whole season and really look at it from his perspective on the Dorit front. She's never left for me, even though I did not like her the first couple of seasons. 100%, I can openly admit that. But now I'm good. And Erica, I have to say this, Erica is very interesting to me.

[D]

I'm locked in on it.

[G]

I'm locked in on this Erica journey. And then Kyle, unfortunately, I'm struggling and I actually. My biggest problem with Kyle is that I don't dislike her as a person. Like, I would almost rather a show of her and her kids on her own. Like, I would. I think she's an amazing mom. Like, her kids fucking adore her. She does seem like she's had the same sort of female friends in her life for a long time. That's always a good sign when someone has like long time friendships. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[G]

So, like, I kind of fuck with her as a human and I've met her and she's really like genuine and was very nice.

[C]

Yeah.

[G]

But on the show, I just, I. I do not believe that she is being trans about what's happening in the relationships. The issues of the show are not being talked about for obvious reasons. The dynamics of the women and how they play into the show cannot be spoken about because then it changes the show, of course. But I don't know.

[C]

How much do you think she's getting paid at this point? Since she's been on since the beginning.

[G]

You know, I did hear from someone that the million dollar paycheck days are gone.

[C]

Yeah.

[G]

Or plus, I heard those days are gone. So I don't know, maybe Beverly Hills seems to be exempt in a lot of ways, so maybe they're still getting paid the big bucks. Dorit should be getting a sizable check because she's being vulnerable and almost to a fault. I mean.

[A]

Well, they do work on some kind of bonus structure that I did hear.

[G]

Yeah. You know, as a child of divorce I was raised on, like, you don't speak. Like, my mom never spoke badly about my dad sort of situation. So I always think when parents do that in person or on camera, I'm like, it's damning.

[C]

This lives forever.

[G]

It lives forever. Yeah. So she's doing it and it's a Part of her real life and it's a part of where she's at. You know, everything we do at a life comes at a cost.

[A]

Yeah. Who, who is the, the Rhode island housewife. That was like, my mom's a bad parent and if I'm not a good parent, it's definitely my mom's fault.

[D]

Joe Allen.

[G]

I was like, that was wild.

[D]

It was giving me Curtis. Trauma.

[G]

Trauma. It's about trauma. Yeah.

[D]

It's about generational trauma.

[G]

I was just raised so differently. Like, I was raised. So I was an altar boy. I was, we were Catholic. We just did not talk about our stuff to other people. Like, I, we just did it. And it's not out of like, shame. It was just like, this is the home.

[D]

Yeah.

[G]

And like, this is like, you hold that in.

[D]

Yes. Yes. You don't let other people know that.

[G]

No. And like, it took me a long time to let friends into, like, this is how I feel about my life or my thoughts on life even, you know? So when I watch people blatantly outlay loud, say what she said about her mom, which is like, I, I, I'm worried about her being with my kids while I'm not there or something. I was like, oh, and you said

[D]

that Episode one on camera. That's why I'm saying, Joe Ellen, here to stay.

[G]

But then the mid season or that little trailer that they showed of like the mom, her and the mom crying. I was like, okay, so this is good healing. Talking about it out loud. The mom saying, I wasn't raised that way. I felt badly for the mom in that moment, you know? So it wrote. That's why I'm saying, Nick, I don't want you to think I'm not on Rhode Island's train.

[A]

I, that's only been one episode. Yeah, it's, it's, we have a lot

[G]

of episode two, but I'm not even not on it. I'm on it. I'm into it. I am. It's, it's just a tote for different reasons. I'm into this show for narratives because everyone's bringing their own real life story, which is interesting to me. It's just in my mind different than what I was expecting. I thought I was going to be more comical because everyone was like, oh my God, it's so wild. I was like, it's not that. I mean, I guess I'm from Miami, so being in a poly, you know, we don't call it polygamy or whatever. Whatever. It's just like, motherfuckers cheating, but you know what I'm saying? Or. Or like loose versions of like, yeah, we're kind of open. We don't talk about it. I remember someone I used to. I used to know was like, my wife kind of knows I could do whatever I want, but she doesn't tell me. But she kind of says it in her own way, but she kind of just tells me, just don't come home smelling like her. Like he said some sort of version of like, we're in this relationship, but my wife tells me I can do it, but I can't talk about it and I can't smell like it and I can't have any evidence. So it's not that shocking to me to be like, we're talking about, you know, but I am. It's fascination. She's talking about it on camera. The crazier part to me is that he's so wealthy and that she's talking about it because if there's one thing I know about wealthy families is that they do not like their dirty laundry being aired. So I do find that kind of interesting, that he's part of this, like, prominent Rhode island dynasty. And here she is being like, I don't work. He's got these people like, I'm like,

[C]

okay, hey, I'm locked in.

[G]

Yeah. Yeah. I would just love it if she were 10 years older. Just 10 years older.

[A]

Don't be an ageist.

[G]

I know, I know. I'm. I am an ageist to people my age. It is unfortunate. I. I really, really am. That's why I haven't seen a single episode of summer house. I'm like, I don't need to see drunk people my age hanging out. I did that all of my 20s.

[C]

Oh, it's so cool.

[G]

It's a reason I don't drink anymore. I've been there, done that, bought the T shirt. See?

[A]

D. I love the interpersonal relationships with summer house. You know, one thing it made me think about Sierra. If you're Sierra, other Sierra.

[G]

You are so good at being Sierra, by the way.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm assuming you can't ever be friends with Amanda again. To what degree would you go out of your way to make your other. Make sure your other friends are also not friends with Amanda.

[C]

I mean, I don't think it's so much about going out of my way. I think that hopefully if I have real friends, they're also like minded. And the idea that she could do that to me just kind of shows that she's not somebody that could be trustworthy. So I would hope that my friends would make that decision for themselves.

[A]

What if they were really disappointed in Amanda and definitely there were conversations that need to be had but what if they in the long run weren't like, hey, I'm not saying I'll never be friends with you. It's just going to be weird right now.

[C]

I mean again that's, that's up to my friends decisions. I'm going to do whatever it takes to protect my mental health and I should hope that the people that care about me the most would also want to do do the same. So therefore not putting me in any situations to where I would be around these people before I'm ready to for sure. But yeah, like I don't think it's something about like forcing. I just think that most like minded people would be like hey, I don't really with somebody who could do that to a close friend, let alone to the person that they made vows to. So yeah, like where I'm like if this is what the situation is, if you decide to be friends with that person, that's fine. If you're constantly posting hang out with this person on a regular after the fact, then yeah, there's going to be distance or we will no longer probably be friends. Because I don't fuck with that.

[A]

I mean I have been someone, I'm a loyalist. I think of myself as loyal and I mean it when I say it. So like I've definitely been someone who's been like listen, you can fuck with them, but if you do, I just don't. And very kind of directly kind of, yeah, just kind of drawing that line. But it made me think over the weekend when we do that sometimes like I feel like that's our own egos telling us that like we do, we don't think losing us is enough so we want that person to be punished more so we make sure that other people also don't hang out with them because like the thought of losing us as a friend should be enough. But like I think sometimes our insecurities will make us might make us think it's not. And then that's when we will rally other people to no longer mess with that person. I don't know. Just a thought.

[C]

Yeah. And I could say like from my perspective, like I could promise you like I you did not give a about my feelings. I do not give a fuck about yours. So I'm not sitting here going out of my way to figure out how to make your life worse. But I will say that. Yeah. Like, I want a safe space around me, and I want to be sure that the people that I'm talking to about what the situation is aren't the same people that are going to be calling her next weekend for drinks and perpetuating. That doesn't need to be perpetuated. We're just no longer friends. You don't respect me, so I no longer respect you.

[G]

For me, it feels like it's just so. Like, it's. It would be so organic and fluid to lose interest the second I see you with them. So it wouldn't even be like a principle of. Of the matter. Like, if I were dating someone and if I were in that situation and I saw someone hang out with that person again, it wouldn't be like a value system. My body would just go. And we're done.

[F]

Thank you.

[G]

You just were good. Like, you just. You made it so easy for my body to release you because it's evident where you stand.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

You showed it.

[G]

You just showed me. So we're good. I will probably still always care about you or the version of you that I thought you were.

[C]

Yeah. I'll be sad about it.

[G]

I'll be sad about it sometimes, but I'm good. Like, I. I can be sad and still be over here.

[A]

I don't think that this is this group. This is a group of people who have been given plenty of signs about their peers to see them as who they are, and they rarely, if ever, continue to.

[G]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Which makes it compelling tv. Either way, we have to go. We'll certainly talk more about all this on Thursday's episode. I am sure there'll be more news in the Summer House scandal along with who knows what's going on with the more Mormon wives. Will Jesse Draper be in another video with another mysterious man? We don't know, but we will certainly be talking all about it on Thursdays. Do not forget to check out the Age of Attraction reunion if you haven't already. Thank you to our guests Miguel Luciano, Cynthia Bailey, and Rebecca Jennings from the New York Magazine. We appreciate them all and we appreciate all you listening. We'll see you on Thursday. Bye.

[D]

Bye, Sam.