← The Viall Files
The Viall Files
E1106 - Taylor Frankie Paul & Dakota Lawsuit Updates w/ Emily Baker, Danny Pellegrino Talks Scamanda Fallout
01:12:05
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- [00:00]
Nick
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- [00:20]
Co-host or Producer
Ever notice how ads always pop up at the worst moments when the killer's identity is about to be revealed during that perfect meditation flow on Amazon Music, we believe in keeping you in the moment. That's why we've got millions of ad free podcast episodes so you can stay completely immersed in every story, every reveal, every breath. Download the Amazon music app and start listening to your favorite podcasts ad free included with Prime.
- [00:55]
Emily D. Baker
You're crazy.
- [01:06]
Nick
What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap edition. I'm your host, Nick. Sadly, my wonderful, gorgeous, beautiful wife Nally will not be with us today. She unfortunately experienced a loss in her family and social. Obviously she is dealing with that right now. So send out some love to her as she kind of processes this loss with her family and she'll be back soon. But unfortunately she will not be with us today. We do, however, have a great episode lined up for you today. Couple of fan favorites return to the show. Emily D. Baker joins us to help us break down all the recent legal actions that are taking place in the Taylor, Frankie, Paul and Dakota situation. They were both in court yesterday dealing with their domestic dispute. Very difficult stuff obviously to talk about and process. But we brought Emily in to give us again, a legal understanding of what's going on and she'll be with us to help break it all down. Plus, we got Mom Talk is trying to seemingly get back on tv. We'll break that all down. We also have Danny Pellegrino with us to help us dive even deeper into all things Summerhouse Scamanda scandal. Sierra was on another red carpet last night at the Euphoria 3 season premiere. Love throwing some subtle shade, agreeing with our take. I mean, she thinks Amanda and Wes better get married, which is, I think, the obvious take. You know, they. It better be.
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Co-host or Producer
They won't.
- [02:39]
Nick
But they won't.
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Emily D. Baker
They're not gonna.
- [02:40]
Nick
I don't think they will. I don't even think they're together. Not even sure. But certainly we will have a lot to discuss with Danny Pellegrino. You know him, you love him. He is a king in the Bravo community and he is with us today. So lots and lots and lots to get into. But before we bring Emily D. Baker on, don't forget that VAL Files plus episodes again are all ad free. Plus you get your reality recap Deep Dives where we dive deep into Was it Marciano's arm? Is it another guy's arm? You know, a lot of important stuff we dive really deep into, along with the Summer House scandal and so much more. Plus your Pop Extra where we would decide did Alec Baldwin try to get someone fired on 30 Rock?
- [03:23]
Danny Pellegrino
I don't know.
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Co-host or Producer
We'll discuss. We must. There's just not enough time with all
- [03:27]
Nick
this reality TV drama going on. We've had less and less time to dive into some of your favorite pop culture topics. But you can find it on Pop Extra behind VI Files Plus. And if that's not enough for you, you get all your favorite updates from Ask Nick on your Update special episode. So be sure to check out Vile Files plus if you haven't already, you'll be glad that you did. Before we get to Emily D. Baker, we do want to remind you that Temptation island, the second season of Temptation island on Netflix, drops this Friday. We are super excited to watch it and we will be definitely covering it next week. Be sure to watch it and binge it this week and all the episodes drop this Friday. We'll get into the first few episodes next week Tuesday, and then continue to follow it as things move along. Also, don't forget that we will be with the cast of Temptation Island. The new the new cast of this upcoming season for the Netflix is a joke event live on May 4th in Los Angeles. So if you're looking for a night out or you've been bugging the Vile Files to finally do some live events, this is the one and only live event that we will be doing. So if you are in the area on May 4, be sure to get tickets. You can go to viles.com to secure those tickets and go ahead and check out Temptation island this weekend to get familiar with the cast members you will be hanging out with. All right, up next, Emily D. Baker joins us to help us break down all the legal action going on with Taylor Frankie Paul. Is Mom Talk on its way back? So much to discuss and we'll do it all with Emily D. Baker. Welcome back to the show. Emily, how you doing?
- [04:58]
Emily D. Baker
I'm good. How are you doing? It's good to see you.
- [05:00]
Nick
It's great to see you as always and always appreciate you jumping on last minute to talk about all things legal. Taylor, Frankie, Paul and Dakota were back in court the two. Well, it'll be two days ago by the time people listen to this episode, I guess. How does it. What. What is this court filing? What does this mean? I. It seemed like a judge ruled that Taylor Frankie Paul is unable to have unsupervised visits with their youngest son, the son that they she shares with Dakota. So lots to unpack. But can you help us break it all down of what Dakota and Taylor Frankie Paul were in court for yesterday?
- [05:36]
Emily D. Baker
Absolutely. A little like, how did we get here? Where are we going? This is a civil protective order that Dakota filed the same day that video hit tmz. Right. On Ever's birthday back in March. Dakota filed for the temporary protective order that is not connected to any other case. He filed it based on the February incidents that we have heard about running up to the Bachelorette getting canceled. In that protective order, he selected that he wanted sole custody. And when the temporary protective order was granted, he got sole custody temporarily until there was a hearing on the issue that changed their custody agreement. That was 70% to Taylor, 30% to Dakota. That's what they had agreed on prior to this happening. So once they had that protective order in place, they set a court date to try to figure out a custody arrangement sooner, I presume, because Taylor really wanted to see and be around their child ever. So that's what the hearing was over. It was just to decide what the custody arrangement should look like. And at the hearing was, you know, Dakota and Taylor both on webex, which is like zoom. Both on webex, not on camera, just names on a black screen. And the guardian ad litem was there, which is an attorney that's appointed to represent the issues and. And interests of the minor child. Obviously their 2 year old can't really express what their concerns are. So the guardian ad litem steps in to speak on behalf of the child, not the mother or father. And then we got through quite a lot of discussion with a bunch of new information and there's another hearing to decide things on the merits. Oh, and Taylor also filed her own protective order against Dakota, so that's going to have to be heard at the end of April as well. There's a lot that happened yesterday.
- [07:28]
Nick
Wow. So, yeah, because I heard that she filed a protective order, but that had nothing to do with what they were in court for the other day.
- [07:35]
Emily D. Baker
Correct.
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Nick
Damn. Okay.
- [07:37]
Emily D. Baker
It's their cross protective orders. And I think at the end of the day, what will probably be healthy for both parties, though I do not know them, I have seen what I've seen in the media and on television. And I have a lot of work in the criminal justice system. But I think mutual protective orders, keeping them away from each other and having a third party help facilitate child custody for a while will give everyone the space that I think they both really very much need. And that space hasn't been achieved yet for them to actually separate and stop engaging with each other.
- [08:09]
Nick
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the thing. It seems like if any, if anyone needs to be separated, it's Dakota and Taylor from each other. I am curious, like with the timeline and timing of these court cases. Right. So Dakota files a protective order, you know, a few weeks ago prior to Taylor Frankie Paul files a protective order. I guess I'm curious because what I saw is that a judge ruled that Taylor couldn't have unsupervised visits. Is that like a temporary thing? Is that solely based off the merits of what Dakota filed? And then since Taylor filed something, could that subsequently change in a few weeks when that court hearing is heard and if maybe new information is. Is brought to light? Or is this ruling about Taylor Frankie Paul not being able to have unsupervised visits with their youngest son ever, is that something that will most likely be in place for the foreseeable future?
- [09:04]
Emily D. Baker
All good questions. So first, it is a temporary order between now and the next court date on the 30th of April. So this is a very temporary arrangement that will be addressed again if that hearing goes forward April 30. It might move because the judge might meet. The judge really might need more time. They've set it for a 90 minute hearing and I don't think they'll get it done. It is partly based on what Dakota filed, but it is more based on what the guardian ad litem had to say. And that is the lawyer that represents the child. The guardian ad Litem reviewed two videos. The video from 2023, and there's a video of an incident from May in 2025 where Dakota, per what the guardian ad litem said Dakota's holding ever and Taylor's going after him and pushing him and shoving him to the point that he almost falls. And that is something that the guardian ad litem reviewed and had concerns about, that even when the child is present, she will still go after Dakota. And the guardian ad litem's concerns were that she is still on the probation for her plea in abeyance. If she messes up that probation, she'll get a felony charge in that case. So that's A huge incentive to. To stay out of trouble. She's gone through the domestic violence programs, parenting programs, and all these other programs. And so what the guardian ad litem said is that the court has given her the tools and incentives to choose something else. And the guardian ad litem's like, call the police if he won't leave your house. There are other options here. But even with the child present and in Dakota's arms, she is still going after him. And that caused the guardian ad litem concern. And so it was really the representative for the trial that said, I have concerns about unsupervised visitation at this point. Her attorney argued. Exactly what you said, Nick, and the judge brought it up too, that it seems that the problem is not that Taylor is going after her child, it's that she is going after Dakota. But she will do that even if the child's present. And that causes concern to the court.
- [11:03]
Nick
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Anytime you watch stuff like whether it's tv, and I don't know how real it is, but like, and I'm curious with your experience, you know, obviously this is a very sensitive topic. And there's this kind of this very nuanced discussion of like, again, it's always like, what's best for the child. Right. You know, and I think everyone agrees that's the primary concern. Obviously these volatile situations that are being described to us are concerning. Everyone can acknowledge that. But like, how. How does the court often weigh, like the long term effects of separating a child from its mother or father in cases where that's their primary caregiver? You know, it's just like. And how does the court weigh things? Like, it's my understanding that ever was with, say, Taylor, Frankie Paul, throughout her filming of the Bachelorette, he traveled with her. I believe that's true. There's no other reported incidents of her, of this behavior when it doesn't involve Dakota. And then again, while it doesn't make these alleged incidents. Okay, it's very disturbing to hear, but how does the court weigh that? Knowing that, like, taking a child away from its mother can certainly have also very deep and troubling ramifications for a child. So, you know what I'm saying, It really seems like the problem is Dakota and Taylor together. Let's separate them. But like, how do we. How do we try to not punish the children in these situations?
- [12:28]
Emily D. Baker
And I think that's really where. And of course, the family court system is really difficult. The family court system is going with physical safety first and Then it works from there. And this is in that civil realm where they are looking at physical safety first and then moving on. This is a temporary order between, you know, March or, sorry, April 7 and April 30. So the court is weighing physical safety first, and then they're concerned about Taylor, Frankie Paul's behavior. First, though, the court and the guardian ad litem both said, we're not saying that this is not. There's not more context to this. That's not what we're here to decide today. That's coming down the road. And then they will decide further on. But they did not take custody away from her entirely. This is a temporary setting. However, when people are going to court, it raises tensions. And the court is very sensitive to. To the fact that that can be a dangerous situation there. And the court, the judge made. And it's technically commissioner, but same, same. The. The court made a very pointed comment saying, I am not determining here who's right and wrong in this situation. I am not saying we don't know. You know, we know everything about the situation. We are doing this temporarily until the next court date to respond to what Dakota filed and that Dakota's filing started this process, and now Taylor has her own filing. So how does the court evaluate it? They look at physical safety first and then keep in mind those ramifications. But guardian ad litems are trained in things like child forensic interviews, signs of abuse, and everyone in court except for Dakota's attorney acknowledged, and that's the guardian ad litem, the judge and Taylor's attorney, that this is not where they are concerned Taylor will hurt her child. They are concerned that because of the volatility with Taylor and Dakota, the child could get hurt in that. And the child's exposed to that, exposed to the shoving and screaming. And they've seen more video than we have. And that causes concern for physical safety and for a child being in that environment. But I agree with you. Separating Taylor and Dakota needs to happen, but the two of them have not done that successfully. And Taylor stands to lose quite a lot in her plea in abeyance because if they bring in a probation violation or if she gets charged again, she will have that felony on her record and she has a lot to lose. And when someone has a lot to lose and they are still going forward, it rightfully causes concern to the court and charges might be coming. We heard that from the guardian ad litem as well.
- [15:12]
Co-host or Producer
Is it just those to Taylor?
- [15:15]
Emily D. Baker
To both.
- [15:15]
Nick
To both.
- [15:16]
Emily D. Baker
The guardian ad litem said that the District attorney in Salt Lake county or Salt Lake City is evaluating charges against both parties. And the guardian ad litem brought up that one of their concerns with Dakota, not just Taylor, but with Dakota, is failing to protect the child. So when Dakota has the child in his arms in this May incident, it seemed that what the guardian ad litem was concerned about is that Dakota continued to engage with Taylor instead of taking the child, turning away and moving away from her.
- [15:44]
Nick
Well, yeah, that was kind of my next question. Like, I haven't seen this video. I don't know if anyone else has.
- [15:49]
Emily D. Baker
No reports in the court record. Yeah.
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Nick
The way it's being described is he. He's holding his kid, he's arguing or fighting. Whatever is going on with Taylor. Filming and filming. Yeah, just like if you can take the time to film, walk out of the house like you're Taylor can't stop you. She's half your size. It just. There's, like a lot of things about this that it's.
- [16:14]
Emily D. Baker
Right.
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Nick
Very nuanced. And yeah, it's. It's.
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Emily D. Baker
Court's concerned because she has a lot to lose and is been through the court process with domestic violence and parenting classes and what have you and is not making different decisions. But the guardian ad litem is still concerned about the decisions Dakota's making as well. And they weren't there to determine who's right or who's wrong. They're there to determine in the next month during a period of time that can be volatile leading up to other court dates. How do we maintain safety for the child with where we're at right now? And that's what they determined was having supervision in the parental visits with Taylor.
- [16:52]
Co-host or Producer
Emily, is it just those two videos that they have, the one from 2023 and the one from 2025? Because I know both Dakota and Taylor have said that there's more video evidence coming. So. Like what?
- [17:07]
Emily D. Baker
The court indicated that they had a thumb drive. The parties indicated that when they get to hearing the incidents on the merit, which will really be the judge hearing Dakota side and Taylor's side and then figuring out what to do, I suspect it will be, you two need to stay away from each other. And then we figure out custody. But the court has a thumb drive of videos and that will not be viewed in open court for the public. That will be reviewed in chambers or in camera by the judge. But it seems that there are other videos, however, of the incident in the truck in February, which Taylor's lawyer called the tussle in the truck repeatedly in Court yesterday. But the tickle in the truck. There is no video. There are photos afterwards, but there is no video of that incident. And that's what we're hearing more about. And Taylor's attorney took a lot of time pointing out that there are 11 different incidents that they are discussing. Eight of those happened prior to them coming to a custody agreement. So Taylor's attorney was saying, look, you knew all of this except for the February incident that went like, overnight. You knew all of this. And they still agreed that Taylor had 70% custody. So what is different today? And that was Taylor's attorney's strongest argument. I think that most of the incidents between them are in the past, and they came to a custody agreement after that had happened. The February incident is the only thing that's happened since they agreed on custody and the court date in April.
- [18:33]
Nick
Interesting. And then. Yeah, where. And then there was a couple other allegations from Taylor's side against Dakota. And I'm not sure where this fits in and what. What court case, but there's this allegation that Dakota tattooed Taylor's initials in his. On his inner lip prior to, you know, her going to film the Bachelorette. And then that.
- [18:55]
Emily D. Baker
I hadn't heard.
- [18:56]
Nick
You hadn't heard that?
- [18:57]
Co-host or Producer
No, I haven't heard that either.
- [18:58]
Nick
That either. Yeah, I. That's being reported. And then there's another. And we can. I'm curious what you think about that. I know you just heard it from me. I think the assumption, just going back to that is that he. He. Dakota was showing signs of this kind of obsession with Taylor, this kind of need to keep her in her orbit, you know, and. And I think it speaks to what she is accusing him of. This kind of manipulation and. And creating this kind of toxic environment again, does not in any way alleviate Taylor from responsibility of her actions in these situations. But I think it speaks to what her side is saying is that he is allegedly a dangerous person who is. Is at the center of this. Of this controversy. And then I think there was. I think it was this truck incident where I don't know if there's pictures or video evidence, but there's this accusation. And I don't know if there's text messages, but like, I guess after this fight, he's. Taylor's inside. Dakota's like, knocking on the door. He's not leaving you again. You would think, why doesn't this guy leave if. If he's the victim in the situation? Taylor's the one seems to be retreating. She seems to be the one removing Herself from the situation. And then there's this allegation of. Of Dakota being like, hey, do you want to fucking?
- [20:21]
Emily D. Baker
That's what the attorney said in court yesterday. And Taylor's attorney was describing the truck incident as. Because this is what the DAs are evaluating. The DAs are evaluating the potential for charges against both parties. And the attorney for Taylor put way more on the record in court than was needed. But it wasn't leaked documents to tmz. So it is what it is. But alleged that Taylor's head was banged into the dashboard by Dakota, that he hit her, and that there are photos of bruises from that incident in February. So there are allegations both ways that she went to talk to him in the truck and then he drove off. But all the kids were inside the house. This is late at night. She didn't want to go with him. She's like, take me back to the house. We were just going to talk in the truck, I imagine, because they didn't want to scream in the house where the kids are sleeping. And then he drives off. And so that's where that whole incident blows up between the two of them. That we've seen allegations from both sides, but we hear that there's no video. And then it's after he takes her back to the house, she goes inside that her lawyer says he's looking through the windows and banging on the doors and texting her. You know, whatever he's texting. Ending with the do you want to fuck? It's just the two of them are in a very toxic cycle that neither of them are willing to walk away from. And they have a child together, which makes it very hard to walk away from. They. I think the court is going to have to make them do that because it seemed that Taylor going to film the Bachelorette was like, this is my walk away. At the end of season four, I'm walking away. This is going to be. Close that door, start a new door. And then she gets right back from filming. I don't even know how long she's back from filming before the two of them are right back into this cycle.
- [22:11]
Nick
I think immediately, I think. I mean, I wouldn't be. I don't know for sure. I know it was very quickly now, whether that was one day, two days, a less than a week, either way, that's all insane given, like, again, the emotional, physical, and mental pressures that it takes to film the Bachelorette. But it wouldn't shock me if there was literally, like, she got off the plane and I would be shocked if they didn't do that. And if they did did that again, it just seems crazy. I know. I just kind of told you about this alleged inner lip tattoo. If that's true. And again, I'm assuming that's easy to prove, right? Like, is that there's a tattoo there, is it not? It's permanent. And then it probably would be pretty easy to track down when this tattoo was done. But how would you know someone with your background? How would the court. How do you assume the court would perceive that? Because that's a pretty intense thing to do. Is that evidence? Or is that something the court would take seriously? Or is that kind of like, I mean, I guess, you know, he got a tattoo, but we can't read it.
- [23:12]
Emily D. Baker
Where does it wash between, you know, his side is alleging that she's calling him 120 times in a row. So when we're looking at behaviors that can be a bit obsessive, where do you balance that? And I think the behaviors that we've seen from both of them are on different levels of obsessive in different ways. And I think it is one of those things you take in balance. But it's not the wildest, most over the top thing that I've seen. And I'm unfortunately a bit jaded just from the work that I've done. And I'm glad he's not trying to tattoo her because that's something that we see in a lot of cases where people are being incredibly possessive, is that they are tattooing the other party not with consent. So I'm glad that that didn't happen on the inner lip. It's going to be gone. Those tattoos don't last as long as others. So it's. It's one of those things where both parties are going to be pointing back and forth. And what the court wants to look at is what's happening when the child's around and how the cycle is playing out, that people aren't staying away from each other. And I imagine this is going to put an end to them ever filming together. And that's probably a really good thing.
- [24:27]
Nick
Yeah. Thank God. I am just curious because the more we talk about this and the more information comes out and the more fingers that are being pointed, it just seems like we're getting to a conclusion where everyone's just like, this is a bad situation, kind of like we've been kind of summarizing. They seem both at fault. They seem both guilty of behavior that is not okay or safe for themselves or anyone who would be around them. And what does a court do when it seems like both parties are equally at fault of some of the same accusations they're throwing against each other? Like, do they both go away? You know, are they both charged? You know, like, is it, is it just to stay away and just stop hurting each other? Like, what does that look like? Because it's right.
- [25:16]
Emily D. Baker
There's two different court systems that are going to be involved in this one. We haven't seen what's happening with the criminal side of it. And we may know before the end of April. We may not know. So that's to the side of the rest of it. But with the two protective orders and the child custody case, because they still have an ongoing custody case that is going to break down to how to make sure the child spends time with both parents safely, how to exchange it, and then how to keep the two parties away from each other, which is going to be third party exchange of custody. And it's a hard arrangement for everybody, but it is a safer arrangement than what's going on now. And then that will be an ongoing process with the custody case and that will continue to change. When you have a child with someone, it is going to continue to evolve. And one of the things Taylor's attorney was commenting on and Dakota's attorney commented on was that that case hasn't been finalized because Taylor hasn't given financial documents. There could be child support involved with Taylor paying Dakota depending on his percentage of custody. And so there's some nuance there as well. But this isn't something that's going to resolve quickly because ever is two years old and there's a long way to go until ever is 18. And that's gonna be an on again, off again with child support, custody arrangements, who gets what holiday. And that's hard.
- [26:43]
Nick
This is always so informative. Emily, I have one more question before we let you go. I have heard from people close to the situation, I guess is that in terms of any conversations around the possibility of us seeing Taylor's season of the Bachelorette that people were waiting for these court cases to see kind of what happened, Obviously you're not part of the decision making at Disney and Hulu, but like from a legal standpoint, from what is playing out in court and then the new cases and new information that's being brought to light, it sounds to me like this is just the beginning. And I guess if that's correct, I just don't see how the network can move forward because it honestly seems like, you know, how do they have a Bach Charat season air where that Bach Charat is, even if it's temporary? Because, like, we don't hear this nuance in the news. We just hear Taylor can no longer have unsupervised visits with her child. Right. Like, that's the headline. We don't know if that's for two days. We don't know if that's indefinite. And if they move forward with this season, I just feel like all these kind of nasty headlines in all these court cases are going to be at the center of attention. And how do they move forward with the season while these court cases are still very much playing out in real time?
- [28:06]
Emily D. Baker
I think they are going to have to keep an eye on her criminal probation, which is supposed to be done in August. And she's not supposed to be around anyone that's drinking. She's not supposed to be drinking. She's not supposed to be in a place where alcohol is served. So if there's alcohol on the set of the Bachelorette, which would shock me if there wasn't, it also can put her probation at risk if she's violating terms of probation on tv. So this airing could also put her at risk with that probation case. But the criminal case, there should be answers whether something's going to be filed or not, sooner rather than later. The custody case is going to be ongoing. The protective orders are going to be ongoing. But there should be an answer if there's going to be a filing or not within the next, you know, weeks. Because it's February incident and we're now in April and they haven't filed anything. And that's probably due to the difficulty of both parties being perpetrators and both parties being victims in a chain of events. It can be very difficult when you are filing and both parties are defendants and each other's victims. That becomes complex. So I don't know. They have to watch and wait and see. I don't know how they. I don't know how they hear it. He gave a very kind of PR statement looped into the rest of what was said in court about how she has been treated in the media. And the court's like, I haven't seen any of that. We're just here to determine custody. But it's clear her attorneys are very mindful of the consequences here and of having cameras in court. Though I do think that letting it play out in court, everybody can just see what's happening. There's no risk of it getting on one way or the other because People can just go watch the hearing. I mean, the headlines are going to do what they're going to do, but at least people can go find exactly what happened in court and watch what the judge says, watch what the lawyers say and decide for themselves.
- [30:05]
Danny Pellegrino
I have a quick question, kind of what you've touched on right there. To me, it appears that headlines have kind of slowed down a bit in regards to, like, insider information or media being released. And I know you mentioned that a lot of these videos or content is being reviewed in chambers or behind closed doors. Are there any conversations or potential, especially with the Guardian ad litem, of, like, some form of a gag order being presented so that nothing can be released to the media and kept within the court?
- [30:33]
Emily D. Baker
Nobody has asked yet, but it's absolutely a possibility if stuff comes out. It also would, I think, be used against a party that released something that had the child in question in it. Nothing's come out with ever in it. But if it did, the Guardian ad litem would go into court and lose their mind about that happening because it puts the child in future risk. And the Guardian ad litem's not in control of the other of Taylor's other children. So I think the lawyers being engaged should slow that down, which we'll just see them making those statements in court on the record instead of to the press. And I think that Dakota did not have this attorney on March 19th. He filed all these things by himself. So I imagine the lawyers will step in and say, you need to let me navigate this because you do not want to get on the wrong side of the court that's deciding all these issues. And I think we'll see that navigated more carefully.
- [31:30]
Nick
Are you saying that this video that we all saw, the video that ultimately got the Bachelorette pulled, that did not have Dakota and Taylor's child in it?
- [31:40]
Emily D. Baker
No, that was before they had.
- [31:41]
Nick
Correct. Yeah. That was Taylor's other child with her previous husband. So are you saying that the discussion of whether where this video came from, did Dakota sell to tmz, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that that is not a topic that the court is covering because it's not that child. And that and the child in the video is not being represented in court? In a way, how the video got
- [32:04]
Emily D. Baker
out to the media didn't come up because it's not relevant to the court at this time because it's not the subject of these ongoing hearings. However, they reviewed the video for the behavior and Taylor's pattern of behavior and Dakota's pattern of behavior. But What I'm saying is that if a video came out with ever in it, the Guardian ad litem is going to say, however this got out, this is going to harm my client. Having this out harms the child that I am representing. And so it, it would be used against the party that leaked it to the judge because of the Guardian ad litem different than what happened before. Presumably this was filed even though it all happened maybe on the same day. That video could have gone to TMZ two days before with a, hey, wait till the 19th. We don't know any of that, but it happened before lawyers were involved. So, yeah, anything that happens from now can be used against them. Absolutely. Court will use what you do against you. And whether that's in the media or not, if it can be traced back, it will be used.
- [33:08]
Nick
But I guess what I've learned from you is that like the courts are very protective obviously when children are evolved, which is why they're not releasing these videos, et cetera, et cetera. But if that's the case, doesn't this original 20, 20, 23 video that we know Dakota filmed and is now released to the public, doesn't that suggest that, that a child was harmed by the release of this video and the person who released it should be responsible in that case for putting a child in harm's way?
- [33:38]
Emily D. Baker
And I think we will see Taylor's attorney making that argument. We just won't see the Guardian ad litem necessarily making that argument because it's not directly correlated. But could we see a request for a gag order? Yes. Could we see Taylor's attorney arguing it? I think we will because Taylor's attorney already started in the hearing at the beginning of April saying that Dakota's unreliable, that the things he's saying are not true and that I think we're going to see them saying, you can't rely on this because look at everything he's done in the media in addition to between the two of them. And I do think Taylor's attorney will make that argument. I just don't think we'll see it from the Guardian ad litem.
- [34:19]
Nick
Emily, thank you so much for taking the time. We know you have to get going, but we appreciate you always bringing a very expertise and legal perspective to these sensitive conversations. So really appreciate you and look forward to you joining us again in the future.
- [34:31]
Emily D. Baker
See you again soon. Thanks, everybody.
- [34:32]
Nick
Thanks, Emily.
- [34:33]
Danny Pellegrino
Thank you, Emily.
- [34:34]
Nick
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Danny Pellegrino
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Co-host or Producer
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Emily D. Baker
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Nick
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Emily D. Baker
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Nick
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Emily D. Baker
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Nick
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Emily D. Baker
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Nick
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Emily D. Baker
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- [38:17]
Nick
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- [41:23]
Danny Pellegrino
Hello, Nick. How are you?
- [41:25]
Nick
I'm doing okay. We're dealing with some family stuff here. That's why Natalie's not with us today. But other than that, we are. We are moving forward. But how are you? More most importantly, it's great to be with you.
- [41:35]
Danny Pellegrino
I feel a little frazzled today. I had a rough morning kind of getting the baby together and it was just sort of a rough morning, but nothing super serious. Just one of those frazzled mornings where I feel like a little cr. But I'm here and I'm excited to talk reality TV.
- [41:48]
Co-host or Producer
How old's your baby now?
- [41:49]
Danny Pellegrino
10 months. Oh, my gosh.
- [41:50]
Co-host or Producer
So cute.
- [41:51]
Danny Pellegrino
I don't even. I do remember. This is what's so sick about how much I relate to reality TV is like, I remember the last time I was here, it was when the Taylor, Frankie, Paul stuff was announced. But I can't remember if my baby was born at that time or not. I'm like. But that's what I. That's like the marker in my head.
- [42:07]
Co-host or Producer
I feel like I remember you were either you had a newborn or you were about to have a baby. Something like that.
- [42:13]
Danny Pellegrino
Something like that. But I remember that news. It was like she was announced to be the Bachelorette.
- [42:17]
Co-host or Producer
It's funny that. Yeah. You have your timeline of like when my baby was born and all of their milestones are like, tied to reality TV moments.
- [42:25]
Danny Pellegrino
Like, I remember it's the first month it was like that. That was when Potomac premiered. Yeah.
- [42:30]
Co-host or Producer
That's really.
- [42:31]
Nick
Certainly has a lot has changed in the. The Mormon wives world. Are you following that story as well or are you mostly keeping up with Bravo these days?
- [42:40]
Danny Pellegrino
I'm mostly Bravo. You know, I've seen the headlines and stuff like that and it seems just like it keeps getting more and more intense. And you know, just yesterday there was like all these sort of headlines about. Yeah. And yeah, I'm not super familiar, but Dakota was. We was. More information was being released about like that night in the truck, I believe.
- [42:58]
Nick
Yeah, in the truck. They're definitely. We actually just had a great conversation with our legal expert, Emily Baker, to kind of break that all down. What I wanted to discuss with you is like the rest of the Mormon wives, before we get to the summerhouse stuff, it really seems like we just had a recent story come out. I don't know if Mary, if you have it, but basically the headline is, the rest of the cast seems to have changed their feelings. Because for those of you who don't remember, this all started with there was this alleged incident in February. And we started hearing about it because the rest of the cast had said, we don't feel comfortable filming anymore with what's going on with Dakota and Taylor. And the new headline is there seems to be a change of heart. Now, I imagine that change of heart has to do with the possibility of Dakota and Taylor no longer being involved in filming, or certainly the pair of them won't be involved. It really seems like right now it's hard to figure out whether, you know, we. We have a video of Jen talking about going through rough times with the camera, like, basically centered around her hands, and she's not wearing a wedding band. Now, for anyone who's married, we all know that sometimes we take our wedding rings off during the day.
- [44:09]
Co-host or Producer
I haven't worn mine in a year.
- [44:11]
Danny Pellegrino
I don't do that. I wear mine all the time. I mean, I haven't.
- [44:14]
Nick
I never take mine off because I just have a gold band and it's just like. It doesn't, you know. But Nally takes hers off every night because she's got a big rock.
- [44:23]
Danny Pellegrino
I kind of feel like people lie about it, though. Let me tell you a story. Actually, this will bring us back around to reality tv. When I did Bravocon, I interviewed Amanda, and there was a story in Page Six about her not wearing her wedding ring. And I asked her about it, and she's like, oh, you know, I'm married, and I take it off and I, you know, I always wash my hands and I take it off or whatever and then come to find out, actually there was, I think, maybe reasons why she wasn't wearing it. So I do actually feel like a lot of people, maybe there are some people who take it off when they shower or when they're washing dishes or something like that. But I also think in the reality TV world, we have to be smarter and realize, like, actually a lot of the times where there's smoke there, there's fire.
- [44:59]
Nick
Well, there's that. I Mean, there's also. There's literally been times where, like, Nelly and I have, like, we're going to an event, and then she'd be like, oh, I forgot to put my. My. My ring on. And knowing that, like, we're gonna go on a red carpet or be photographed, we turn around and. Because, like, it's just like, oh, we don't want to deal with.
- [45:19]
Danny Pellegrino
We don't want to deal with it
- [45:20]
Nick
online speculation or anything like that or being seen with it. So, like, to your point, if you're not wearing it and you're in the public eye, you have an awareness of it. Right. And so Jen filming this video without the wedding band with, literally, I mean, it's like her hands are the center of the video.
- [45:40]
Danny Pellegrino
She knows what she's doing. She knows what she's doing, exactly what she's doing. And. And I bet you in a couple. A couple months or something, we're gonna find out just like we did with the Amanda situation. It's like, I. I don't know. I feel like in a few months, we'll find out the truth. I don't know. I hate to be so pessimistic about it.
- [45:55]
Nick
What does the group think? Do we think that this show can go on without Taylor, Frankie, Paul? And do we feel like most of the stuff we're seeing online, whether it's Jesse doing the stuff with Marciano and Chase, we got Jen suggesting there's trouble in her marriage. Is this all an action of these women trying to prove to the audience and maybe even executives they can carry the show without Taylor, Frankie, Paul? Well, I mean, according to. There's an article talking about them wanting to resume production that you mentioned earlier. It says the cast reportedly expects production to resume in a matter of weeks,
- [46:30]
Co-host or Producer
but they're allegedly pushing Hulu bosses to
- [46:33]
Nick
start as soon as possible so that
- [46:34]
Co-host or Producer
the delayed production doesn't affect their summer plans.
- [46:37]
Nick
So just kind of an hilarious headline.
- [46:39]
Co-host or Producer
That's really funny. It's really funny.
- [46:42]
Nick
And I do think that, like, they all honestly have the sauce to keep this show going without Taylor and Dakota also, because that storyline is getting so dark.
- [46:55]
Co-host or Producer
And, yeah, we see it with reality
- [46:57]
Danny Pellegrino
TV all the time that it's like, you don't.
- [46:59]
Nick
You don't want to watch that all the time.
- [47:00]
Danny Pellegrino
Yeah, I think there's a line like, you can go up to the line with reality TV like, we want drama, we want excitement, we want cast, inner conflict. But then when it starts to feel too bleak and you're feeling like, I don't know, all those stories that are coming out about Dakota and Taylor, it's. That's when it starts to feel like. I don't know if I want to watch this, especially. I think there's an issue when there's kids involved in the whole thing. I mean, obviously, domestic violence is terrible no matter what, but then also, when you add children into the mix, the audience starts to feel like that this is, like, a bridge too far.
- [47:31]
Co-host or Producer
Yeah. I think my prediction is that the season will start out the same way that season one did, where you have, like, the cops, the drama, the headlines of Taylor and Dakota. And then from then on, I think they're not gonna be on the show, and I think it'll just be. I don't even know if they'll be, you know, doing interviews. Like, I think that it's just gonna be, like, acknowledging that this happened and restart using, like, the news articles, like, popping up on the screen. And then it's just gonna be the rest of the women and, like, talking about what happened briefly and then them and focusing more on their lives, like Jesse and Miranda and Chase. And, like, there's a lot there.
- [48:09]
Danny Pellegrino
There is a stink on the show, though, in a way that there wasn't before, because I think a lot of the audience is looking at it through the lens now of, like, well, they had to have known all this. I mean, obviously, it was in that first episode, there was so much stuff. So I think a lot of the audience is like, oh, this is. Feels icky because they knew what they were putting out there. Even with the. The world of the Bachelorette, it feels like for the audience, like, oh, they. They knew all this stuff, and they still went ahead with all of it anyway. And so I think that's going to be hard to get that cloud out of.
- [48:38]
Nick
That's a. That's a great point, Danny, because, like, curious what you guys think or the rest of the audience. I mean, with the severity of the story specifically centered around Taylor and Dakota, isn't there a part of everyone who's, like, watching this other drama between the rest of the Mormon wives and kind of feeling like too soon. They're doing bits in a way that feels like, wait, have we.
- [49:02]
Danny Pellegrino
Have.
- [49:03]
Nick
Are we. Are we. We're just powering forward, you know? And I. There is an element of. Yeah, it's just like we're flying. Flying too close to the sun here when it comes to where does our thirst for drama stop and our sensitivity for a situation begin? And it doesn't feel like with this group of people. There isn't a line. And I just wonder if, long term, will that turn off its audience from the cast? Or maybe not. I mean, we continue to follow it. We continue to be fascinated by these individuals. I'm also curious which of the cast members will stay on. Like, will Whitney Levitt continue with this cast, or will she continue her Chicago career?
- [49:44]
Danny Pellegrino
It'll also, I think, could go one of two ways where the audience completely rejects it for the next season, or it could be embraced because the audience maybe will want to see all the drama play out. Like, I. I don't know exactly, and I don't follow it enough to really know where the audience will go. But I. I think it'll be one extreme or the other. It'll be like everybody tunes out or everybody's tuning in to see how they address it.
- [50:07]
Nick
Well, let's. Let's pivot to Bravo. Your wheelhouse.
- [50:10]
Danny Pellegrino
Yes.
- [50:10]
Nick
I'm just curious as to kind of start high level. What were you doing when you found out Scamander was real? Where were you?
- [50:18]
Co-host or Producer
Was your baby when Scamander broke?
- [50:21]
Danny Pellegrino
The baby was in the other room. But I was literally recording my. An episode of my show. I recap Summerhouse on my show. Everything iconic.
- [50:27]
Co-host or Producer
Oh, I saw.
- [50:28]
Danny Pellegrino
And I was like, yeah, like, I was maybe an hour into the episode, and then it was one. Usually I do recaps on my own, but I had a friend joining me for this episode, and we got alerts on our phone, and so we were literally recording as it came out. And so my reaction, I posted on Instagram, and then the whole episode is out. So you can kind of hear the follow up afterwards. But it was. It was kind of perfect timing because it was like, you got a genuine. You know, I didn't have time to really think about it, but it was. I think at that point we were all expecting there to be some sort of confirmation of what was going on. And then we finally got it, but there were too many little breadcrumbs that were happening up until that point that even as I was recording the episode, we were saying, like, okay, this is obviously true, and then we got the confirmation. But looking back, it was so weird that the. It's a joint statement that. And I. I'm maybe, Nick, you have some insight into this. But I wondered, like, was that network PR or was that personal PR that helped them craft that statement? Like, I. I'm kind of fascinated by that.
- [51:30]
Nick
My understanding is that it's personal pr, and it's my understanding that they sought out personal PR together.
- [51:38]
Danny Pellegrino
Okay.
- [51:39]
Nick
And which.
- [51:40]
Danny Pellegrino
For the. For those people who don't know, it's like the network, the show has their own PR kind of machine, but then also individual cast members can have their own PR people that they. They pay.
- [51:50]
Nick
And PR is expensive, for one. And I do think, in general, Bravo does a really good job of. I think just across the board, Bravo has a. Just like a public policy that they push their talent. And they. I think they recognize that they push them and push them to that degree. They're very protective of their talent. So they will make sure that they're not going to throw. They're not going to push their talent to the limits that they do and then kind of throw them to the wolves. So they're very mindful of that. And I think to that degree, I think a lot of Bravo talent don't have personal PR because one, it's so goddamn expensive. And Bravo's quick to come to their defense if and when it's needed. But for whatever reason, Wes and Amanda felt like they needed their own pr, is my understanding.
- [52:35]
Danny Pellegrino
So do you think that statement was run through Bravo as well, or do you think they just put it out?
- [52:40]
Nick
Well, I had an interesting conversation with a couple people recently. I don't think Bravo was excited about the timing because I think it drastically disrupted the launch of Rhode Island Housewives. So you have this new show coming out, Rhode Island. I think everyone's very excited about all of the Bravo PR machine is going to get behind trying to make sure that the launch of this new show is very successful. And right before that, they had this scandal for Summer House, which, you know. Yeah, everyone's talking about it, but it definitely takes away the energy and attention from its other shows. And I think they would have definitely preferred them to wait at least a week, is my opinion.
- [53:17]
Danny Pellegrino
It was the good energy for in the City, but also because it was right before filming Reunion, like the. The timing was impeccable. Cause then Andy Cohen's tweeting, send your questions. And then also Kyle Rodke's filming Confessionals for something.
- [53:29]
Co-host or Producer
Yeah, it's kind of like.
- [53:29]
Danny Pellegrino
Which could be a pickup, but it could also be in the city. We don't know. But I think the synergy.
- [53:33]
Co-host or Producer
It's great for everything. But Rhode is.
- [53:35]
Danny Pellegrino
And not only Rhode island, but it was like a big premiere week. I think Atlanta, the Valley, there was a lot of stuff that. You're right. I didn't think about that. Of like the launch of all these new seasons and new shows was sort of overshadowed.
- [53:49]
Nick
So Yeah, I think Bravo was involved, but I definitely think that Amanda and West really drove this decision. What I'm most fascinated about is what compelled them to create such urgency and make them feel like filing a joint statement made the most sense. And we've heard these alleged rumors about a video or these receipts. I've, I've. Before TMZ reported on it, I had heard stuff. That stuff exists. And the. You know, and so to me, I think we can all agree that this joint statement didn't make a lot of sense. And usually when you make decisions that don't make sense, it's often because you're rushed to make a decision and you don't know what the right decision is. And just, you know, it's like this is the best of the worst decisions we have available to us, et cetera, et cetera. But I feel like there had to been something that pushed Amanda and Wes to feel like we, we gotta speak on this because it's. We would rather hear. Have people hear it from us than say a receipt gets sent. You know, like the same way we found out about Taylor, Frankie, Paul. Like, you know, once a video is out there and people can start writing their own narrative. I just wonder if this decision of a joint statement was centered around feeling pushed into that by something or someone.
- [55:06]
Danny Pellegrino
I was pissed that it came out when it did because I was on watch what Happens Live shortly before with Kyle and I would have loved to get into it with them. It's like, oh man, why didn't we get this information a little ahead of time?
- [55:16]
Nick
What a missed opportunity.
- [55:17]
Danny Pellegrino
Come on.
- [55:17]
Co-host or Producer
And he had no idea at the time.
- [55:19]
Danny Pellegrino
No. And that was what was. So that's when the kind of rumors started picking up. I just was holding on to when I did watch what Happens live with him, the rumor was out there. And so we. Andy had asked Kyle about it and then I even sort of like asked a follow up about it. And it seemed so. Like there were so many other rumors that were more interesting at the time that that one seemed like. No, it's not. Even when Kyle's response and everything, it didn't feel like he was acting. It felt like, no, that's a stupid rumor. Like the other more interesting rumor was like Kyle was maybe with a next gen cast member or something like that.
- [55:50]
Co-host or Producer
Yes.
- [55:51]
Danny Pellegrino
But then so. So that. That rumor about Amanda and West was kind of like inconsequential. I felt even his response and the way it was all handled it also I. I felt like if. If Andy thought there was Truth to it, he would have pressed further about that one. Like, it. It felt like everyone involved was sort of like, no, that's a silly one.
- [56:09]
Co-host or Producer
Yeah. So you think that, like, really nobody knew about this.
- [56:12]
Danny Pellegrino
I mean, that's how I feel. But, you know, it's always like, you. You go back and you're like, wait a minute, did you put the doctor?
- [56:19]
Co-host or Producer
I mean, even watching the season back, it's like Kyle knew something was up. You know what I mean? And like, also re watching just like, even the last scene in this episode that just aired where you have Ben calling Amanda out for talking to his girlfriend and being like, why would she say that? Like, everybody thought that Ben was in love with her.
- [56:39]
Emily D. Baker
Like, you see all the breadcrumbs even
- [56:42]
Danny Pellegrino
I saw a clip somebody posted on social media of. Of Amanda sort of kissing Craig on the cheek when he was with Paige and holding hands and looking and holding hands on the table. And you're seeing all these clips and it's like, wait a minute. That is. And I always. I even thought earlier in the season when the way Ben was sort of holding Amanda and like lifting her out of that carnival party and, and holding her into the house, I'm like, that if. If somebody was doing that with my husband, I would be uncomfortable by that. And, and of course the guys involved were wrong too, to be going along with it, of course. But yeah, you're. We're looking at all these moments and I'm like, wait, this was all sort of happening in front of us. We all kind of, I think, just
- [57:19]
Co-host or Producer
thought it was fun, to be honest. Even that conversation when with Kyle and Amanda where he was talk DJ career and she was just being very like the like to me now thinking back on that, I'm like, this feels kind of fake. You know what I mean? Like, this feels like Amanda was already removed from him and she's just trying to make a scene and she's just trying to like, win the audience over with her reaction because she knows that everybody's so team Amanda and so not team Kyle. And so watching all of this back, I'm just like, this changes everything.
- [57:50]
Nick
It is interesting you say that. And Danny, I wonder what you think about, like, Amanda in a post like
- [57:56]
Co-host or Producer
Scandal and post Ariana Maddox, like, huge rise world. Like, you have a bunch of these Bravo stars when they're in situations like
- [58:04]
Nick
this, they know what's going to happen. Like, you had Amanda, like, knowing she
- [58:08]
Co-host or Producer
was set up for the Ariana. She's getting set up for the Ariana Maddox treatment. And then she just completely self sabotages.
- [58:15]
Nick
And it's just like such an interesting psychological thing. Like.
- [58:18]
Danny Pellegrino
Yeah. And I'm fascinated about where they all go from here, if they all sort of fit in those roles. Like, I think the audience always, when these scandals happen, they want people to be, and I use the term perfect, but it's like the perfect villain, the perfect hero, the perfect victim. And then of course, they do something outside of those roles. You know, like Ariana, she was expected to be perfect that next season. And everybody that, the show, the editors, the cast members, they were all ready to find the one thing that she would do to kind of turn that narrative. And I never. It wasn't fair. And I wonder if that'll happen with these people. If. If the audience is just gonna be waiting for Sierra to screw up. If, you know, so that they could turn, they're ready to turn, you know, and like the. The shows. I always say this about the Bravo shows is like, they take you on a roller coaster. They want you to love the cast member one season, then hate them the next and love them next. It's like that keeps you tuning in. It keeps you tuning into the next episode. And they take us on this ride. And so I'm just thinking, like, how are they gonna fit these people into those roles? Is Amanda gonna be the villain for two seasons? Is she gonna somehow find a way out of that role? Or, you know, like, I don't know how it'll go, but I know the audience wants them all to be in these roles now, and it'll be interesting to see how it shifts to your
- [59:33]
Nick
point, Danny, that will be interesting because, like, right now, Ciara is the person who has our empathy, our support. That's the person we, it seems clear, is the most wronged here. Right? And then the question is, what, if anything, will cause the audience to have, like, Sierra support fatigue? Right? Because that's what it comes down to, right? So it's almost like, okay, this person's got all our simply for so long. Do they still deserve it? And I think it's because, like, right now, a lot of the conversations that are centered around Amanda and West, it's like, how did you not see this? You're. He's a. He's a future dj. You know, it's just like he's. He's, you know, he's like, he's Kyle in a different font five years earlier or whatever it is, you know, and that may all well and be true, but then the question is like, you know, Right now you have Sierra doing red carpets, looking like a queen, doing these amazing, you know, interview, having these amazing opportunities, interviewing Jon Hamm, interviewing Cindy Suni. And it's so fresh and early that, like, some of her little snarky remarks. We're eating it up. It's like, she's. Sierra last night said to Cindy Sweeney, you know, what do you do if you're. If your best friend steals your ex boyfriend, you better fucking get married or something. You know, we love it. We eat that up. The question is, if six months from now Sierra is still making these comments about west and Amanda, will the audience kind of say the same thing to Sierra that they're saying to Amanda is like, girl, didn't you know better? Or yada, yada, yada. And I'm curious if that's what will cause them to. If. To your point, if they do turn, will that be the reason why?
- [61:04]
Danny Pellegrino
And I just feel bad for anyone in that position because I think, like, of course, I mean, I should say feel bad. She's gonna be great. But I think it's a little unfair because the audience will build someone up on a pedestal. And ultimately, like, Sierra was the party that really didn't have involvement in the scandal. It was like other people. So I'm not saying victim's the wrong word because she's not a. I don't think she's a victim. That's not. Not the right word. But. But that's sort of the role the audience is gonna put her on. And. And then so what happens with reality TV is they'll be built up so much and then just, of course, inevitably ready to tear that person down the middle ground. And that's like, kind of. I feel like that's a little unfair when you don't have any involvement. Like, if you were the villain in the situation, it's like you had involvement in that. But for someone like Sierra, or at the time when we compare with Ariana, it's like everyone is just gonna be waiting for them to screw up, and it's sort of like an unfair thing. They're gonna wait for her to say something wrong or whatever. It's like she didn't do anything, and now everybody's just gonna be waiting for her to up.
- [62:05]
Co-host or Producer
Right. Well, all I can think back to is, like, the way that Ariana was set up in that final season.
- [62:11]
Danny Pellegrino
Her.
- [62:12]
Co-host or Producer
Exactly. And I'm like, honestly, my thought after seeing that is that the best move in this situation is to now leave reality TV and to go start your, like, Blow. Your career is ready to blow up.
- [62:24]
Danny Pellegrino
We've seen the blueprint too many times. Too many times it's happened and it's like, she should go, yeah, yeah.
- [62:29]
Nick
If I'm Sierra, I'm definitely. I. You know, especially with this new, you know, in the City release, which I think a lot of people are surprised by the size of the cast that. And the only main. The familiar people are Lindsay, Kyle and Amanda, right? Am I. Is from the Summer House.
- [62:45]
Danny Pellegrino
Danny Allen and.
- [62:46]
Nick
Oh, that's right. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, but she's not on Summer House right now anymore, right?
- [62:52]
Co-host or Producer
No, they're the only.
- [62:53]
Danny Pellegrino
She used to be on the current season. But wait, did you see the trailer when Wes shows up and calls her Mandy?
- [62:59]
Co-host or Producer
Yes. She's like, hey, cutie. He's like, hey, Mandy.
- [63:03]
Nick
And then they hug.
- [63:04]
Co-host or Producer
They knew what they were doing.
- [63:05]
Danny Pellegrino
They know what they're doing.
- [63:06]
Nick
Yeah.
- [63:06]
Danny Pellegrino
Like.
- [63:06]
Nick
And when was that?
- [63:07]
Danny Pellegrino
But are they parading in front of everyone, do you think, or.
- [63:10]
Co-host or Producer
I don't know. Because my thought is like, I feel like they. They probably have to re edit in the City. You know what I mean? Like, after this scandal drops, I'm like, they. They gotta do. So, like, they can't just release whatever it was that they had planned.
- [63:22]
Danny Pellegrino
They can't re edit. They're gonna do a pickup though, right? Like, they might complete the season towards the end. Closes the gap. Like, a lot of people were saying, why didn't they pick up cameras? But from my understanding, the Summer House finale leads into into the City.
- [63:35]
Co-host or Producer
So there's a crossover.
- [63:36]
Danny Pellegrino
There's a crossover like they've done. So it wouldn't have. It wouldn't have fit in if they edit. But they'll be able to edit more footage into into the City, right? Aren't they potentially doing a pickup? Because we saw Carl Rodke post that he's in front of a green screen, AKA confessionals, which could be anything. My guess is. My guess is that'll be for the, like, the reunion. Like, they'll use that. Maybe. Maybe there'll be like a scene at the beginning. That's my guess, at the beginning of the reunion, a pickup thing. Because it won't make. They won't be able to do it with the finale leading in. And they even announced when they premiered the in the City trailer, they said it's a crossover event.
- [64:09]
Nick
We mentioned this on Tuesday's episode, but I really, really, really hope Andy does individual sit downs with Kyle, Amanda and Sierra going into the reunion. I don't want everyone screaming at each other like we had at the Vanderpump reunion. Like, I don't want the reunion to be some kind of like screaming at a pillow therapy session where you get your anger out and take it out. And like, I want timelines, you know, I want to hear Amanda and Wes story if it lines up. I want to hear why they came out with this joint statement. I want to know where Sierra was and if and when she knew and how she knew. Was there a PI involved, who got the PI And I feel like we need to have Andy peel back those layers from each individual. Love Lindsay Hubbard, love Carl, love their input. But I just want, you know what I'm saying? I don't want the yelling match, I don't want the interjection. I want to get those details. And I think that this reunion will be the perfect time. I just hope they, I hope they tweak it a little bit then maybe a traditional reunion and get some one on one time with these cast members.
- [65:09]
Danny Pellegrino
I also want to point out that again, everything is different than Scandival. There's different nuances. Of course it's different. But I think everybody involved in production, cast, they've seen what happened with Scandival. And so I think the cast is also going to go in there knowing we can't be too much because they got rid of everyone on Vanderpump because they weren't able to film together. So I think that's all going to be in the back of their heads of like, we have to either find a way forward or we can't be too, it can't get too dark or too toxic because they could fire all of us. They could fire most of us. And production is also going to want to make sure that the audience doesn't feel like it's gotten too toxic like we just talked about with more because they saw what happened with Vanderpump and that I, I kind of feel like they really fucked that show over because they got rid of everyone. The ratings went like to the basement from the highest of highs. And so they're going to be a little more protective. Even though the Scandal isn't even on the same level as Scandal. They're going to be more protective of, of this, that this show that has spinoffs. It's like a franchise, you know, like they can't screw it up.
- [66:12]
Nick
Well, and that makes a lot of sense. And I think probably why you saw like Carl and Lindsey doing like an Uber Eats campaign and leaning in. And I'm glad that they're doing this right, because again, we have to, like, this isn't the Taylor, Frankie, Paul in the Coda situation. And yes, there are people who were hurt and feelings are hurt, but that is, that is the essence of why we watch these shows.
- [66:35]
Danny Pellegrino
Where do you stand with, a lot of people are saying, oh, they shouldn't monetize off this. I, I feel like, who shouldn't? Like Carl and Lindsay, a lot of people were saying, oh, that's inappropriate, that
- [66:45]
Nick
they're, whatever, where do I stand? I think it's hard to critique how people operate in this kind of messy universe that we all create. Production companies, the characters, us fans, you know, we said it last week, it's like, you know, you can't complain about Beverly Hills being too boring and then criticize Summer House cast members for being, like, really messy. And like, yes, there are people who are hurt here, feelings were hurt, but, like, everyone is seemingly okay. The person, you know, we talked about this last week, Sierra, who we have the most empathy and sympathy for, she seems to be living her best life. I, I, I'm not saying we, we shouldn't check on her, and we, we want to make sure she's okay, but I really think Sierra Starr is about to blow up. She'll get hosting opportunities. So, like, everyone is okay. And I think we just have to remember that, that, like, and, and why we eat this scandal up. And, you know, we were saying this before the scandal happened, that Summer House is one of the most realistic examples of just kind of like Millennial and Gen Z dating out there. And that's why we love it, because it's, you know, we, it's, it's talking about these interpersonal dynamics that we all can relate to. We've all have been betrayed by friends. We've all been bad friends. Maybe to, not to disagree, but maybe early in our lives, sometimes we live, you know, what's fascinating about Amanda is it's like a lot of us have made these poor choices when we were 18, 19, or 21 or whatever. And you lost a friend and you're like, that, that was really shitty. Like, losing a friend, dear friend, is a really shitty experience. And it's in it, you know, it's a profound lesson. Amanda, it's interesting because, like, she's been in this marriage and like, almost her maturity level in terms of friendship could have been stunted because she was, she got married so early. And again, it's not an excuse, but it's just like an interesting element to unpack and discuss. And we are fascinated with this story because it is so relatable. And I just don't think we should lose the plot or be so hyperbolic or act like everyone's not okay where, like, this is their work. You know, this is.
- [68:45]
Danny Pellegrino
This is also the Bravo ecosystem, too. It's like, I mean, every. Every time people start to put a moratorium on Bravo and say, it's done, the housewives are done, this show's done, We. We get a moment like this that is.
- [68:58]
Co-host or Producer
Brings it right back.
- [68:59]
Danny Pellegrino
It brings it right back. And these scandals, there's been so many. I've been covering Bravo for almost a decade now, and it's like, every year, there's usually one big kind of scandal like this. And it's not. This isn't like a first time. This is. And, yeah, I keep looking at it, like, comparing it to the previous scandals that we've had on the network and seeing, like, oh, what I'm. I'm interested in, like, what did the network learn from this? What did the other cast members learn from that other scandal and how they operate through this new one? And that. That is always what's interesting to me.
- [69:30]
Nick
And you made a good point, Danny, because I don't think people should make any mistakes about it. Vanderpump cast members definitely monetized it. They just did it in a different way. Like, it's different when you see Carl and Lindsay almost crack a joke and have a little levity in this scandal. When it was scandal, you had every Vanderpump person who had a podcast, like, would go on their podcast and just, like, absolutely destroy Tom. And you had. You had Jax. Taylor, for a moment, was like the knight in shining armor, and he was like. Everyone was monetizing it.
- [70:01]
Danny Pellegrino
Him and Brittany got, like, their own show on Peacock.
- [70:04]
Nick
Yeah, yeah. They were just doing it by destroying Tom and Rachel, you know, they weren't doing it by, like, making and cracking a few jokes. But to your point, I think it's smart that Lindsay and Carl are doing it because maybe they did learn the lesson. It's just like, hey, we can criticize, but let's not go too far. That where we can't come back from this.
- [70:22]
Danny Pellegrino
Also, they're all in reality tv. They need to monetize while they can. They're not making the same. They're not making all that money from the show. They're going to make much more from the Uber Eats brand deal than anything else. This is sort of maybe wrong of me to say, but I do need people like Levy and Bailey to wake it up and get in the mix a little bit, because I think they're fighting. I keep saying she's fired no matter what.
- [70:45]
Co-host or Producer
Like Levi's. Yeah, yeah.
- [70:47]
Danny Pellegrino
Like, earn your bag now. Like, you know, like, get some.
- [70:50]
Co-host or Producer
Do something.
- [70:50]
Danny Pellegrino
I'm not saying throw anyone under the bus, but you can throw west and Amanda under the bus. Who cares who gets a fact? Get in the mix a little bit. Like, and, you know, this is your shot.
- [71:00]
Co-host or Producer
That's why I think Carl. Lindsay didn't do anything wrong, because it's not like they're, like, making fun of Sierra or Kyle. I mean, Kyle said. Said that, you know, so he's. He is monetizing off of something that Kyle said. But Kyle. You know what I mean? Like, he's not gonna care about that.
- [71:16]
Danny Pellegrino
You know, I think if anything, Kyle,
- [71:18]
Co-host or Producer
like, especially given the last episode and stuff, I think I was like, you know what? This is a thing I can do for Carl.
- [71:22]
Danny Pellegrino
Yeah, yeah, right. They have so much attention right now. It's like, you make the brand deals now because it's not going to last. Look at Vanderpump rules that lasted maybe a few months for some of them, a little longer with. With everything that happened in terms of brand deals, it's like, you know, earn the paycheck. This is what reality TV is.
- [71:39]
Nick
It will be interesting to find out where Carl and Amanda were. Kind of, like, maybe they were just both kind of over it, and. And. And they were kind of operating as people who, like, cared about each other as humans, but realized that the romance was gone. They never had kids together, so that kind of. Maybe that's easier to get over than having, like, a shared custody. That can be difficult because, like, we don't have a lot of time to get into. Deep into the Valley. But, like, at the end of season, episode one of the season, you have Jesse and Michelle's still fighting. You got Jesse's new girlfriend. And sometimes, like, when you go through divorce on one side, it could be very difficult, and there's so much, like, emotional baggage. But sometimes you get divorced after so many years, and you're just kind of like, you know what? This is really the best for both of us. And I suspect that that's kind of where Kyle and Amanda were at, where they were just, like, mutually respectful. And to that degree, I wonder if Kyle's secretly, like, thinking this is the best thing that possibly could have happened to him.
- [72:39]
Danny Pellegrino
I think on some level, too, Kyle might feel a little relief because he was always the villain in that relationship. And so he's probably thinking, oh, this is leveling the playing field out a little bit. Like, I. He cheated before on Amanda, and he was always portrayed as like, I can't believe Amanda's with him. We were all cheering on Amanda when we found out they were getting divorced, and now he's probably thinking like, oh, great. I'm not like that. I'm not going to be the pariah of this situation. Yeah.
- [73:07]
Co-host or Producer
Have we checked on lover boy stocks?
- [73:08]
Danny Pellegrino
I wonder how it is. It's probably gone up.
- [73:10]
Nick
No, I don't think they have stock,
- [73:11]
Co-host or Producer
but they're not stocks.
- [73:12]
Emily D. Baker
But.
- [73:13]
Co-host or Producer
But how's lover boy doing? Sales. Have we checked on lover boy sales?
- [73:17]
Nick
Probably better.
- [73:18]
Danny Pellegrino
I've still not tried it.
- [73:19]
Co-host or Producer
Yeah.
- [73:20]
Danny Pellegrino
Danny, a lot of the alcohol that they release is just piss water. Okay, thank you so much. I'm not saying lover boy is piss water, but a lot of the reality TV alcohol I lovingly call piss water, because that's what it is. When you try it, you're like, oh, this is going to be a good. I don't know. Chardonnay by this housewife. And then you try it, you're like, what is this?
- [73:42]
Co-host or Producer
This?
- [73:42]
Danny Pellegrino
Yeah, Gasoline that I'm drinking a $3 trader bottle with. It's for the label. Cute. Yeah.
- [73:49]
Nick
Would you. Would you like to see west and Amanda on next season of Traders?
- [73:52]
Danny Pellegrino
No. No. And I don't think. We didn't get to talk about this, but west isn't a good. He either needs to, like, lean into the villainry or I. I don't think. I don't know what we do with wet. Like, I'm not really interested in west seeing him not be able to do a declarative sentence on the show ever. And now. Now he's so unlikable. It's like, I don't even want to see him at all. At least, like some of the other scandals. If you look at Sandoval, it's like, he was a good villain. You know, he knows how to lean in. Or he's just like that.
- [74:20]
Nick
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [74:23]
Co-host or Producer
That's a really good point. Even like watching Summer House now, I'm like, I don't care.
- [74:27]
Danny Pellegrino
And west wants too much for everyone to like him, I think. So it's like he won't lean into the villain. And then what is he hot? Amanda, too. I think that both of them. I'm like, I don't know if they're gonna be good villains. So then what are they? And Amanda, I'm like, I don't even really know. Much about her personality. It was always so tied up into Kyle, her relationship with Kyle, every kind of storyline other than her bikini or her swimsuit launch. Everything was about how Kyle was cheating, Kyle's bad husband, their business trouble because of Kyle. It was like everything, all of her story lines revolved around him. And so then now coming out of this, I'm like, well, who is Amanda exactly? I don't know. Interesting. Does she even.
- [75:06]
Nick
I wonder if she'll give us an opportunity. I am fascinated with the Amanda storyline because I think what she did was terrible and she was a bad friend to Sierra. And maybe this will be an opportunity for her to realize maybe she's been a bad friend in other situations. But like I said on last week's episode, not condoning it, I can just understand how she got in this position and how scary it can be to date outside of a marriage and outside of your reality TV bubble. And I think that's just so different than how we see west operating, where you keep hearing more and more stories about. This is a guy who really has embraced his celebrity and hookup culture. And he's out there just really seemingly taking advantage of the fact that he's six one, famous, has a decent job, and that is the golden ticket in hookup culture. And he is really leaning into it and then subsequently kind of playing the white knight of this person who's getting out of divorce, who doesn't have the same confidence that he has and isn't going to jump on the apps and meet and meet a bunch of guys. And then here's this one guy who she's comfortable with. And it's just like a tale as all this time. But I'm curious what Amanda would be willing to show us that she's learned from this experience. Because I do think a lot of every woman in my life, whether it's my mom or sister, you know, it's like women, breakups happen a lot with. You know, I feel like a lot of women have a lot of close friends. They kind of. They kind of operate in small groups, like one or two or three. And every once in a while, there's like a big fight or a breakup. And I think that's just very relatable and that dynamic. And I. I hope they actually kind of unpack that with Amanda and Sierra in a way that, like, I think it would be really entertaining.
- [76:54]
Danny Pellegrino
And going back to west, unfortunately, I think on Bravo, the straight men have a Peter Pan complex because the audience is largely women. And so it's like yeah, they go to these clubs and events, and it's like they're surrounded by women who are. Who are. Just a lot of times, I think, just want the story of, like, I hooked up with this Bravo Liberty, and it's because the audience is women, you know, like, and gay men, too. I'm sure a lot of gay men throw themselves at the.
- [77:19]
Co-host or Producer
You know, these men.
- [77:20]
Danny Pellegrino
Guys, too, but of it, you know, doesn't work out. But. Yeah. So then a lot of these guys, they have that. They. They aren't growing up. And we see it on Southern Charm or Summer House or Vanderpump or any of these where there's younger straight guy cast members and they just continually, like year after year, they're not maturing at all.
- [77:39]
Nick
Yeah. Because there's no. They. They have this unlimited supply. To your point, Danny, it's like the society or the bars, this bar scene is never going to make them grow up. You know what I'm saying? Like, there will always be. There will always be fans. Like, even right now, in the heat of the scandal, west west is gonna. If he wanted to go out and hook up with someone, he could. Yeah, very easily.
- [77:59]
Danny Pellegrino
Unfortunately. That's true. Yeah, that's like he could go to a bar right now or. I'm sure. And just a lot of times people want to do it as a story. It's like the person who's trying to maybe hook up with them, they don't really care. Like, oh, it's a fun story.
- [78:11]
Nick
And he'll be like, oh, that's just tv. It's not even real. You know, if a. You know, it's like, are you really a bad guy? And she's like, no, it's his tv. It's like, whatever, you know?
- [78:19]
Danny Pellegrino
You know, like, oh, it's just reality tv.
- [78:20]
Nick
Yeah, they'll say that all the time.
- [78:22]
Danny Pellegrino
Yeah.
- [78:22]
Nick
So he'll, like. The guys on Bravo will never be incentivized to grow up. They'll actually have to make a choice. And you often see many of them not. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Danny, I know you have to get going. This is always fun to chat with you, so please.
- [78:36]
Danny Pellegrino
Thanks for having me.
- [78:37]
Nick
Yeah, anytime.
- [78:38]
Danny Pellegrino
So good seeing you all.
- [78:39]
Nick
Can you please let the audience know where they can find you? Follow you, enjoy all the great stuff that you're doing. Yeah.
- [78:44]
Danny Pellegrino
At Danny Pellegrino on Instagram and wherever on social media. My podcast is called Everything Iconic. And I also have a couple books available, people essay collections if you want to read some funny stories.
- [78:53]
Nick
Well, check out all of Danny's great stuff. And follow me. I'm sure many of you already are. Obviously, he is an icon in the Bravo community. And Danny, we really appreciate having you on. It's always fun. We will see you next week. Don't forget, Temptation island begins this Friday on Netflix. And we will definitely be covering all of the things going on on Temptation Island. It's, it's a great new season. You are not going to want to miss it. So be sure to check that out over the weekend if you're not planning on watching it already. Other than that, thank you to our guests, Danny Pellegrino and Emily D. Baker. We will see you back on Monday. Bye. Bye.
- [79:44]
Emily D. Baker
We're lost. It feels like we're going round in circles. I'm gonna ask that man for directions.
- [79:50]
Co-host or Producer
Hi there. We're trying to get to the state fairgrounds.
- [79:53]
Danny Pellegrino
Well, you're going to take a left
- [79:55]
Nick
at the old oak tree at this here road.
- [79:58]
Danny Pellegrino
Nah, I'm just kidding.
- [79:59]
Nick
Let me get my phone out.
- [80:00]
Co-host or Producer
How is there signal out here?
- [80:02]
Nick
T Mobile and US Cellular are coming together.
- [80:04]
Emily D. Baker
So the network out here is huge.
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Danny Pellegrino
We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits.
- [80:10]
Emily D. Baker
And there's a five year price guarantee too.
- [80:12]
Nick
Okay, here's the turn.
- [80:14]
Emily D. Baker
Actually, can you pull up the way
- [80:16]
Co-host or Producer
to a T Mobile store?
- [80:17]
Nick
America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee.
- [80:25]
Emily D. Baker
T and now T Mobile is available
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Nick
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Emily D. Baker
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Nick
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- [80:33]
Emily D. Baker
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Nick
The combination of T Mobile's and US
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Emily D. Baker
Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T
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Nick
mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply.
- [80:42]
Emily D. Baker
See t mobile.com for details.