← The Viall Files
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- [00:01]
Host 1
I'm so excited to share with you that this podcast is sponsored by the RealReal, the world's largest and most trusted source of authentic luxury resale. As someone who likes to make their wife happy with the occasional gift with a fancy purse, RealReal has saved me so much money I can't even talk about it. I'm so grateful for RealReal and so is my wife. I'm always seeing Natalie scoring on the RealReal and they have some amazing pieces, all these different designer purses and outfits. They drop over 10,000 new arrivals every day from brands like Gucci, Fendi, Prada, Louis vuitton, Tiffany Co Cartier and so many more at up to 90% off retail price. So she loves the brands, I love the prices and we both love the RealReal. The RealReal is a smarter way to luxury shop. You can refresh your closet by selling them pieces you no longer wear and using that value towards something you'll love even more. When you sell with the RealReal, they do everything for you. They've they from photography to copywriting to shipping, pricing and customer service. So you can just sit back and get paid and then if again, if there's something they have that you want, you can go ahead and get a new purse or get a new outfit or a bag or some luggage or
- [01:06]
Nick
you know, whatever it is you ladies like.
- [01:08]
Host 1
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- [02:39]
Nick
they're happy to give it to you.
- [02:40]
Host 1
You also get a 10 to 15 year warranty depending on the mattress. So you know you are covered. It seems like our mattress is like
- [02:46]
Nick
as good as new.
- [02:46]
Host 1
I've had my first Helix mattress six years ago.
- [02:50]
Nick
Absolutely obsessed with it.
- [02:51]
Host 1
Still love it.
- [02:51]
Nick
It's still amazing every time I sleep on it.
- [02:54]
Host 1
So if you are looking to get the best sleep in your life, go to helixseep.com, you'll be glad that you did. Go to hel sleep.comv I A L L for 20% off site wide for their spring savings event. That's helixleep.com vill for 20% off site wide. Make sure to enter our show name after checkout so they know that we sent you. That's helixleep.com v I a l l don't forget Vile Files plus now offers ad free episodes for all Vile Files episodes including Ask Nick Reality Recap and Going Deeper. Plus if you love Ask Nick, you will absolutely love our Ask Nick updates where you get upd favorite calls, our deep dive on all your favorite reality recap TV shows and our pop culture roundups where we talk about all your favorite pop culture topics that we didn't get to in this week's episode. Plus deep dives on our Going Deeper guest and so much more. All you have to do is go
- [03:48]
Nick
to V files and you will be lucky you did.
- [03:53]
Caller Aaron
You're crazy.
- [04:05]
Nick
How's it going?
- [04:06]
Caller Aaron
Pretty good. My name is Aaron, I am 27 and I finally met a guy that checks all my boxes, but he has a girlfriend.
- [04:15]
Nick
Okay, well so I get. I'm Curious is, how did you get to the place of thinking? He checks all your boxes. Like, did you meet him on. Like, is. Is this, like, an online profile? Are you. Have you become closer and closer with him? Like, what's going on that makes you feel.
- [04:33]
Caller Aaron
This is. It was a natural meet cue. I just moved from a different city to start my current schooling program, and we found out that we both moved from the same original city and then ended up in the one we're currently in, so we had that in common. So I haven't known him for very long, and, you know, just, like, interactions and, like, the coursework and, like, study groups and stuff like that. We just got along really well. He had a lot of, like, attributes that would make me attracted to somebody and things that I'm looking for. So on a whim, I just reached out to him one day, and I said, hey, I'm gonna be at this coffee shop at this time. If you want to come hang out and study, get out of the house, because we don't know anybody here. We're both transplants. So, yeah, I was like, if you want to come. And he showed up. So that's kind of how that started.
- [05:26]
Nick
Did you know he had a girlfriend at this point?
- [05:28]
Caller Cole
No.
- [05:28]
Caller Leah
Okay.
- [05:29]
Caller Aaron
And we had already been in our program for almost two months and had never mentioned a girlfriend or.
- [05:38]
Nick
Second question. At this point, you didn't know he had a girlfriend, obviously, which prompted you to ask him to meet up. Coffee. Did you think from just your point of view that he was being a little friendly, a little flirty? Did you feel like, yeah, there was some chemistry that he was sharing with
- [05:57]
Caller Aaron
you in a way, Enough for me to at least reach out, enough for me to have the confidence to reach out.
- [06:04]
Nick
Second question is, if he was your boyfriend and he had the exact same relationship in those two months, and again, mostly that relationship, it seemed like you were schoolmates or, like, you know, how would you. How would you think of his actions?
- [06:23]
Caller Aaron
It. It definitely was, like, innocent. Like, he. There was never any boundaries crossed or, like, questions or anything like that. I just.
- [06:30]
Nick
So it. Just. To be totally honest, if I'm just saying, not you, but if you're his girlfriend. So you think that, like, okay, if this was my boyfriend and he went to a different school, and he was like. I'm assuming they probably had some kind of conversations that was like, hey, babe, I'm. I'm doing this program, and I'm st. And then it's like, okay, but we got to do long distance, because I love you and all this stuff. And they probably had a lot of conversations about boundaries and anxiety around, like, you know, people like you that he might meet. And I'm just curious, if you were her, putting yourself in that shoes, regardless of intention, like, would you. Could you be watching him with a mirror ball and just be like, yeah, no, just. That's exactly how I want him to carry himself?
- [07:16]
Caller Aaron
Definitely not. But, like, up until the point I asked him to go to coffee, no. And like, I said I didn't know that. He never had said anything because he had mentioned, like, oh, yeah, I'm going home for the weekend. Like, he had, you know, had plans, and he was like. I was like, oh, what are you gonna do? He's like, oh, I'm just gonna, like, go and go. Go be with my friends. Like, all my friends are here. So there was, like, definitely some sort of, like, prompting, like, oh, I'm gonna go and be with my girlfriend.
- [07:42]
Nick
Yeah. So that's another question I'm curious about. If you're his girlfriend, right. Do you think, given the conversations you had with him and that you saw him have with other people, would you be frustrated that he didn't go out of his way in any of those conversations to just be like, yeah, I'm gonna go hang. Like, to just let people know he has a girlfriend? Just to put it out in the world, if you're his girlfriend, when it
- [08:05]
Caller Aaron
came up, it was after. So we had the coffee thing or whatever, and he. He was the one that initiated again, so unaware he has a girlfriend. He initiated like, hey, we're in a nice area. Like, it's evening time. Like, let's go get a beer. So after we go and get a beer, everything's going great. I'm pretty excited at this point. I'm like, wow, it's going so great. Like, and then. And then ever slightly and casually, he goes, oh, yeah, me and my girlfriend. And just kind of like. And I was just like, what are you doing here with me?
- [08:37]
Nick
Then that's a good question.
- [08:39]
Caller Aaron
Did it make any sense? Yeah, yeah, it was a great. I. I didn't ask that question because I was just like, well, I don't want to. I was like, well, maybe he is like a platonic person, and he's like, in those comfortable spaces. But I kind of think, in regards to how you're thinking, that I would be kind of upset if you spent all this time with someone, I don't know, in a city. I don't know.
- [09:00]
Nick
Yeah. I mean, listen, your. Your question right Is like, hey, this person I kind of am developing a crush on has a girlfriend. So, you know, your question is centered around how do I handle this? But ultimately, like, you know, I'm assuming you don't want to be some relationship wrecker, but if he doesn't want to be with his girlfriend and he wants to be with you, you kind of are. You're very interested in having this guy become your boyfriend.
- [09:26]
Caller Aaron
I am.
- [09:27]
Nick
Right. So you should be very much thinking. You should be very much thinking about, if I'm his girlfriend right now and I'm on the other side, how do I. You have a front row, you know, like, for example, like every person in a relationship. Right. I mean, I mean, I should. But, like, for the people, I guess, may it be a better way of saying it for the people in relationships where they're, you know, things are happening. I'm not sure if, you know, it sounds weird, the things that happen that lead people to go through their partner's phone that they know they shouldn't do, but they do it anyways. Right. If you've seen Beauty and the Beast, you know, that glass mirror, you know, where he's like, show me this. You know, and. And a lot of people in relationships
- [10:11]
Host 1
would probably take advantage of the opportunity
- [10:13]
Nick
to be like, show me my boyfriend right now. Especially, like, young couples who try.
- [10:19]
Host 1
Are trying long distance just to check in, you know, not because they want to spy, but they just want to.
- [10:24]
Nick
They want to feel like, you know what? I'm going to check in on my boyfriend and girlfriend, and I'm going to see them being a great boyfriend and girlfriend.
- [10:29]
Host 1
And right now, you, you have this mirror, you have this power.
- [10:32]
Nick
You are watching him show you exactly how he is as a boyfriend.
- [10:38]
Host 1
And I just would like, every step
- [10:40]
Nick
of the way, I would ask myself, if I were you, if I'm his girlfriend, am I comfortable with this? Is this how I would want him to treat me?
- [10:51]
Host 1
Again, you can make excuses for him because, like, right now you're doing the kind of the opposite thing.
- [10:55]
Nick
You know, you have a crush on him, he's checked some boxes, and you are very much trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.
- [11:04]
Host 1
Also, partly there's a element of, like,
- [11:06]
Nick
you know, you don't want to be a relationship wrecker and you don't want to be that girl. So, like, I, I, obviously you're like, I didn't know. You know, like. And you've done nothing wrong here. This is not your relationship or protect you. You have no reason to be defensive and ultimately, if you guys have chemistry and he realizes maybe he's met someone new that like, he wants to explore, he has the right to do that and it's not a sin, but he. How he goes about that really matters, you know? Does he deal with his shit at home in a way that, like, makes you think he has high character, that he doesn't make excuses for things and he doesn't, like, he's not a monkey going from one branch to another, dipping his toes in the waters with like a potential relationship with you, feeling it out while, you know, and then playing that game of like, not really doing anything wrong but, like. But if my girlfriend was watching, she'd be pretty fudgeing pissed.
- [11:58]
Caller Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. It's just. I don't know, I guess I'm trying to read it the right way because sometimes, you know, you often think like, okay, well, like, to your point, no, act like physical boundaries have been crossed. There hasn't been a lot of inquiry on like, what my. What I'm looking for, like, things like that. Those quite, those relationship type questions haven't been asked.
- [12:21]
Nick
Has he complimented you on your looks ever?
- [12:25]
Caller Aaron
Not really. I wouldn't say that. However, like, he did. He did invite me to go hang out with him again. He did. He has invited me to hang out with him again. Like, like small gestures, I guess. But I guess what I'm kind of trying to understand is, okay, well, maybe he, he really is just like my friend. He's really just trying to be my friend, you know?
- [12:48]
Nick
What do you, I mean, what do you really think?
- [12:50]
Caller Aaron
I don't think that's true.
- [12:52]
Host 1
I mean, okay, but let's say just,
- [12:54]
Nick
just, just to give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's say that's, that's actually his intention is to just be your friend. At least.
- [13:02]
Host 1
Let's just, let's. If nothing else, that's what he's telling
- [13:04]
Nick
himself, which honestly is probably true. Again, just back to the. If you were his girlfriend, regardless of what he's telling himself in the mirror or to his buddies, would you, if you, you know, if someone was just filming his, you know, would, would, would, would you be totally okay with it? How would you feel about your boyfriend, you know, asking you out? Not good to go grab a beer?
- [13:31]
Caller Aaron
Yeah, because I mean it. Yeah, because I mean, and that's what he's asked me to do again. It's like, hey, like, like because the weather's getting nicer where we live and you know, patio season, he's like, oh, we should Go and, like, make these, like, plans with me.
- [13:45]
Nick
How old is he?
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Caller Aaron
He is 26.
- [13:48]
Caller Cole
Okay.
- [13:49]
Caller Aaron
He just turned 26.
- [13:50]
Nick
You know. You know, young enough, but, like, he's not like, you know, this behavior, the
- [13:56]
Host 1
way you're talking,
- [13:58]
Nick
I would cut some slack, you know, if you were like, I'm 21. I'm 19. I'm 20. You know, I. I'm a sophomore in college. I'd give you some slack because. Or him. I mean, I don't. You've done nothing wrong here. I mean, the only thing I can critique as I think you are, think you're making some excuses and you're not looking at it through the lens that if I were you, I would. To protect yourself. And again, you have a real opportunity to see how this man operates as a boyfriend, and you're not seeing it that way because it really doesn't matter what his intentions are. You know, you're doing the game of, like, well, I don't really think he means this, and I wonder what he thinks. And you're talking to your girlfriend's guessing his intentions and all that. You really need to ask yourself is, if I'm his girlfriend, would I be. Would I. With this. Like, would I be cool with this?
- [14:47]
Caller Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. But it's. Yeah, I think I just like, way more into the, like, the checking the boxes rather than, like, actual context, because
- [14:57]
Nick
what are the boxes he's checking?
- [14:59]
Caller Aaron
He seems like, really like, the program we're in, it does require some sort of, like, large amounts of, like, ethical, like, responsibility and caring for others and that sort of thing. So, like, seeing that play out in real life and having to, like, do the. Go through those things and also the vigor of, like, the coursework. Like, I can tell he's really smart also. Just, like, willing, like, it's hard to, like, be willing to move to, like, better yourself from a place of, like, comfort. So I feel like we can, like, relate in those ways. To me, it shows that there's, like, some sort of dedication for self improvement. He's also, like, pretty to look at. That's always nice. Sure. He's really fun, so I can tell he likes to, like, get out of the house and do things.
- [15:44]
Nick
Yeah.
- [15:44]
Caller Aaron
And I'm not a homebody myself, so there's. I mean, I know those are, like, surface level, but, like, you know, those are good. Like, the kindness part and like, being able to, like, think about others and then, you know, ambition. Those are important to me.
- [16:02]
Nick
I'm Googling something here.
- [16:06]
Caller Aaron
What are you Googling?
- [16:07]
Nick
What professions Cheat the most.
- [16:12]
Caller Aaron
Isn't it like the three Ps, physicians, firefighters, police, the three Ps.
- [16:19]
Nick
Number three is doctors, nurses and EMTs. And I would say, you know, those are people who, you know, not all, but I think it requires an immense amount of empathy and care and consideration for other people, you know, and so again, I don't think it's a black and white thing. And I think again, like, you could be a police officer. The service industry's up there too, like in service to others, you know, to protect and serve. You know, you can be. There's just a lot of complicated people out there, right, who have dedicated their lives to the service of others and feeling endeavors and they're just really bad partners. So I think it's, you know, I
- [17:02]
Host 1
mean, the good thing is that you're
- [17:03]
Nick
saying, check the box. And I don't think you're too far off because it's just a box you're checking, but you're not really getting to know these people. And as I, you know, I've said in my book a bunch of, you know, I say my book and I say it a lot of times, but like chemistry, you're describing things that are why you have chemistry with this guy. He's attractive. Of course, you know, you're going to have chemistry with people you find attractive. You're from the same home town, you have similar stories in terms of what you're pursuing. So common interests creates chemistry. We go to the same church. We were both on the Bachelor together. We have, you know, like, there's a reason why people on reality TV are constantly dating because very few people can relate to their experience. That speaks nothing to like how they are in relationships, their compatibility, how they show up for their partners, how they're going to handle like emotional stresses once the honeymoon phase ends. It just is like that initial meet up and you're just like, oh my God, you too. Oh my God. Like, I'm not alone, you know, and that's chemistry, right? That's not compatibility. So everything you're describing is chemistry, you know, and you're kind of selling it to yourself is compatibility. Which is what, you know, we all do that. So I mean, you're not alone.
- [18:13]
Caller Aaron
Yeah, makes sense.
- [18:14]
Nick
It's just something to be careful of. So what you know about this guy is that you, you are drawn to him and you definitely feel that instant spark and connection and there's definitely some chemistry and you really enjoy his company and if he was single, you would definitely want to pursue that. But that's all you really know about him. And I would be careful to make assumptions and leaps about his character because they line up with some of the things that you're doing. He may be the greatest guy of all time, and maybe this is a blip and maybe there's some backstory. Maybe the relationship hasn't been great lately and he's trying to fight it and make it work. And, like, maybe this is a moment of weakness for him. But other than that, he's a pretty high character guy who's never cheated on his girlfriend. But this is a moment where he will have to, you know, like, we've all been there, never cheated. But, like, when I look at my entire relationship history, I mean, there are certainly moments where I was like, I definitely shouldn't. You know, I toed a line there that I shouldn't have toed. And that wasn't, you know, that wasn't my best moment as a boyfriend, you know, Or I'm, you know, like, we have a whole. No one's perfect in relationships. We all, you know, we have moments of weakness. So maybe this is a moment of weakness for him. But I would. I wouldn't be so quick to give him the benefit of the doubt.
- [19:31]
Caller Aaron
Yeah, kind of, probably. Yeah. Tread lightly. And I haven't, like, intentionally, like, reciprocated. I've just maintained, like, being nice. Especially after that, you know, him saying, like, oh, I have this serious girlfriend that I've been with for a year and a half. I was just kind of, for me, like, I went from, oh, I think, like, this could lead to something, like, presenting wise. Like, in my mind, I was, like, completely, like, confused, but I was like, okay, like, I'm getting friend zoned right now. Like, this is, like, maybe him trying to set up the boundary.
- [20:05]
Nick
But it was him mentioning. Him mentioning they had a girlfriend.
- [20:09]
Caller Aaron
Yeah. Like, maybe that was him just trying to be like, okay, I see how this looks. Let me. Let me just put this there so that we can proceed forward. But then, like, actions following are just kind of like. I don't know, because even, like, when we have, like, breaks for lunch, like, he's invited me to go on walks with him and stuff like that.
- [20:26]
Nick
So let me ask you, have you seen Wolf of Wall Street?
- [20:29]
Caller Aaron
I don't think I have, which I know is, like, an American classic, and I haven't seen it.
- [20:34]
Nick
No, it's a solid movie. It's. Anyways, there's a scene in Wolf of Wall street where Leo, the lead, meets the Margot Robbie character.
- [20:43]
Caller Aaron
I'm familiar with this scene.
- [20:44]
Nick
Yeah, the.
- [20:45]
Caller Aaron
We won't be friends.
- [20:46]
Nick
Yeah. We're not friends. And you strike me as someone who is confident in themselves. And do you know, do you think if some. If your. Again, if your boyfriend, let's say you had a boyfriend, if your boyfriend was even intending, even if you thought, even if it was an innocent intention, was trying to become platonic friends with someone that you thought was your equal, how would you feel about that?
- [21:18]
Caller Aaron
Not great, I guess. I mean, like. Because I'm definitely, like, comfortable. Like, I see your reasoning. I'm not going to go into that because I see where you're trying to land and no, I would not. In short answer, no, I would not.
- [21:30]
Nick
Yeah.
- [21:31]
Caller Aaron
Especially in a place where I don't live and I don't see you and I don't know what you're doing. Not that you need to be monitored, but I don't know. Yeah, he probably, like, he probably wouldn't share, like, hey, I'm gonna invite this girl on a walk with me during lunch because I want to talk to her. You know what I mean? Like, I'd be like, why, why, why do you feel like you need to do that?
- [21:52]
Nick
Well, yeah, forget about a walk. But, like, you know, and again, like, you never know. Like, context. Context really matters. You know, maybe the reality is we're not attracted to everybody. And there are people there. Well, there are women specifically because I'm attracted to women that I could be alone with that would in any way, like, make my wife think twice, you know, just be like, okay, cool, it's a human being. And there are other women who I could be alone with. And they are. Their first question, what the fuck is going on here? Because, like, she knows what I'm into. She knows what I'm attracted to. Unless you think you're the type of person that men are just kind of just like, fine to be, like, asexual and just like, yeah, don't, don't, you know, just immediately think of friends and like, you know, as human beings, we do that thing, you know, it's just like, I'm sure, you know, you tell yourself, oh, he's this. This, you know, but you know, deep down, how you think he looks. If you had a boyfriend, is he the type of guy that you would be going on walks with if your goal was to be a, like an upstanding girlfriend just simply based off of how he looks, do you think it would be appropriate?
- [23:07]
Caller Aaron
No. Okay. Yeah. So I guess, like, going forward, I don't like, because I have to see this person.
- [23:14]
Nick
Sure.
- [23:15]
Caller Aaron
You know, and we're here for the remainder of the year.
- [23:19]
Nick
Yeah, well, I don't think you'd be mean to him. I mean, he's still your classmate and
- [23:22]
Host 1
I think you can be friends with
- [23:23]
Nick
him, but I think you can also have a little fun and you can give them some version of that Margot Robbie line where it's just like, yo, what, you know, you got a girlfriend, bro. And he plays the whole, like, we're just friends. You could be like, I. We're not like, yeah, listen, we're cool. Like, I mean, we're friendly. I mean, obviously we. But like, we're not. We're not going to become close, close friends. We're not. People like us don't become friends when one or both of us are in relationships, obviously, like, we should. I'm not saying can't be around you and you have to act kind of very, like unbothered and very matter of fact and in control. Because, yeah, he probably is feeling a little out of control, you know, Again, assume. Let's assume he's just not some piece of shit fuck boy who kind of lies and knows what he's doing. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. That meeting you caught him a little off guard, you know, that he didn't expect to meet someone that he, you know, quite honestly has a little bit of a crush on, like you have on him. And he's trying to, you know, be a good boyfriend, but he's, you know, toeing that line in a way that deep down he knows he shouldn't. And he's kind of doing the thing where I'm not really. I'm not really doing anything wrong. And like, what, what. I mean, I'm just like, walking isn't cheating, you know, like, he's saying like stuff like that to himself, you know, where it's just like, he knows, you know, he knows. So you don't have to. You. You have the power here. You are in control. You know, you have the ability to be like, listen, like, I think you're great. And you can just be like, you know, if. If you didn't have a girlfriend, we. We might be having different conversations. But you do. And so I'm just gonna help you be a better boyfriend by shutting this down. And you could just. I think you should be very direct, very matter of fact.
- [25:09]
Host 1
You can almost be slightly flirty when
- [25:12]
Nick
you do it, but you can kind of just shut it down. And for the sake of the potential of a Future relationship with this guy. Just be like, you want to be a friend to me? Show me what kind of boyfriend you are and deal with.
- [25:25]
Caller Aaron
Deal with. Deal with your shit I've been struggling with.
- [25:27]
Nick
Yeah, deal with your shit. In what capacity do I do anything?
- [25:32]
Caller Aaron
What do I do with this? You know, like. And where did. Where do I fall in this? Because the only thing I've been kind of towing around is, is not feeling great about it or feeling confused.
- [25:43]
Nick
And you're feeling confused because I think deep down, you, in everything I'm saying to you, you know the answers to, right? Like, you know, right? But you're pretending, you're playing a little dumb with yourself and you're making excuses for him and you are trying to tell, Even tell yourself this is not that big of a deal. And you're like, this idea that you're convincing yourself that he's friend zoning you is you trying to let yourself and him off the hook. And like I said, like, just look in the mirror and look at him. You know, you know what he looks like. And this isn't the type of guy who has a girlfriend and becomes platonic friends with women like you. He dates women like you. He doesn't become friends with them. And if he's single, sure, he can have a bunch of friends like you, but that would probably include some kind of like, situationship or hookup buddy or whatever, you know, I'm not saying you're. I don't know if. But you know what I'm saying? Like, and you know that, you know that about yourself.
- [26:45]
Caller Aaron
Yeah. And I think, like, I'm in a really good place in my life as far as, like, being single. And I, you know, I was in a relationship last year and it ended like in May. So I'm in like, a good place with myself and like, starting this, like, program and like, better during my career and like, all the things. And this is kind of like rocked my boat too. It was just like, well, I feel really good. And now this is.
- [27:07]
Nick
That's another thing to be mindful of. Like, you came here for this program and you were investing in yourself and you're, you know, you got out of your comfort zone as you described. I mean, you gave him that credit, but make sure you're giving yourself that credit too. And this is a big opportunity for you. Don't waste it on playing games with yourself on some guy who's at this point only actually proven to you that he might be a bad boyfriend. When I was 21, 22, I got an internship at Miller Brewing. And that was a big deal for me, you know, huge opportunity. I had a girlfriend at the time and this girl from, you know, I was like one of the only two kids from Wisconsin that they hired. Everyone else they hired from around the country. And there was all these people who came in and there was this girl from Texas, this, you know, and I was, I had a huge crush on her. And I ended up breaking with my girlfriend. But, you know, I, that was a situation where before I broke up with her, I definitely, I didn't handle my business the way I should. Looking back, you know, I, you know, I lot, a lot of the stuff you're describing, what he's doing, it was like very similar, right? It really cannibal. It really ruined my experience, you know. You know, but like, it was a distraction. I put a lot of emotional energy into that. It was fun, it was dramatic. I was caught up in it. I was certainly young, but like, I didn't show up for this really incredible internship opportunity and focus my energy on that and, and just enjoy having the girlfriend I did at the time. You know, I was young and it was a toxic relationship, whatever. But I'm just saying, like, it cost, you know, my performance in that internship because my emotional energy was going into this kind of drama of what do I do? You know, and things like that. So you have the answers, you know, and you can tell yourself, I've met a great guy and he's really cute and definitely I would be interested if he was single, but he's not. And the way I found out, honestly, he should have told me sooner. And I don't know why he didn't. But like, I, I, I, my boyfriend would know better and he's not, you know. And so I think again, you just need to show up and be very matter of fact. You could be a little playful and you could just be like, yo, no, I'm not going on a walk with you. I don't like you got a girlfriend. And if he's like, well, this is just a walk, we're just friends. And I'm going to say, like, listen, guys like you and girls like me aren't friends. And you say that very confidently and it will be like, he will find that attractive that you know your worth and that, you know, like, what's up? And like, he can play dumb, but like you, you know, and if he turned and on the outside chance, and I doubt he will, he doesn't like
- [29:49]
Host 1
that you called him out.
- [29:51]
Nick
So he gets a Little mean and was like, okay, all right, get over yourself, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then you know he's a dick. Because again, it doesn't. You know, you know, you know that there's no world in which you two are going to become best friends and best friends only, regardless if either of you have a boyfriend and girlfriend. You might explore a relationship and you will be friends, but like, you're you. You already know you're physically interested in him. So there's no, there's no world in which you're going to be. You're going to allow yourself to be friend zoned. You might pretend to go along with it for a while and then it's going to feel like a situationship and then it will be like this guy, you know? You know what I'm saying? But like, you know what it's like to be friends with men, right? I'm sure you've had men friends that you have are no interest in and you're just like, we're friends, you know, it's not confusing. You're not, you're not going into this friendship wondering if, you know it's your friends and that's not him for you. So I would, if I'm you, I would protect this program and protect this opportunity and make sure you're channeling your energy in the right way and you don't have to try to figure this situation out because you have all the answers because he has a girlfriend and he is not available to do what you want to do with him, which is to potentially date him. And you should just let him know that and be very confident about it. And you can be playful at the same time. And if things change, he can, he can re engage you. But like, and don't make him feel foolish. That's where the playfulness comes in. You know, don't just be like, yeah, I'm not. We're not going to be friends. And if I'm your girlfriend, I wouldn't want you going on a walk with me.
- [31:30]
Caller Aaron
Okay.
- [31:31]
Nick
Why do you hate my answer?
- [31:32]
Caller Aaron
Okay, I don't hate it at all. I don't hate it. I don't hate it. I just, yeah, just. I wish, I wish he would just like, poof, like, go away.
- [31:45]
Nick
What? What? Him? Her. The situation.
- [31:48]
Caller Lucy
No.
- [31:49]
Caller Aaron
Yeah, well, like, more so like him because it's just like. Because I, I'm perfectly fine with just being friends, but like the, the furtherment initiation of it is just kind of like.
- [32:00]
Nick
No, no, you're not. Stop saying that. Of course you can be friendly with this guy. Of course, you know, you're, you're seem like a nice, friendly person, but there's a difference between being friendly and as it relates to like you're in the same program, you're gonna interact, you know, you might go out in group activities and you know, you will be civil and friendly versus you guys becoming friends as if like you're, you know.
- [32:25]
Caller Aaron
Yeah.
- [32:26]
Nick
And that. Stop.
- [32:27]
Caller Aaron
You know, I think too, I, like, I struggle a little bit. Just I think part of me is afraid to have this overt confidence saying we won't be friends. Could I do it? Yes. But also I think I'm kind of like, because like I said, I'm going to be here in this place, seeing this person for the duration of this year. And the thought of saying that and then feeling like the delusion was all in my mind afterwards, like him shutting me down would just like I'm like, okay, well maybe this was all just like thought up. And then I say that he's just like, what are you talking about? I don't know. That would really, that would be, I mean, at least I would have an answer.
- [33:13]
Nick
You're selling yourself way too short. You're selling yourself way too short.
- [33:17]
Caller Aaron
Yeah, but I just, I guess that that part isn't in like my disposition normally.
- [33:23]
Nick
What do you mean?
- [33:24]
Caller Aaron
It kind of takes me a bit to like, like having that just like, like no, like we won't be.
- [33:30]
Nick
I don't know. Listen, that's because you have a big ego and that's okay, but you can, you need to recognize it.
- [33:37]
Caller Aaron
You know what?
- [33:38]
Nick
You know.
- [33:38]
Caller Aaron
No, I, and I do know that because my pride is, is quite big. And that's why I haven't asked or
- [33:43]
Nick
said anything to him already in that moment. Like you have to replace your ego with a little bit more self confidence again. It's real simple. It's not that complicated. And trust your gut, you know that guys like him don't just become platonic friends with girls like you. And anything else is just bullshit we tell ourselves and it's us trying to have our cake needed to. And again, if he's going to play dumb and kind of like call you out and almost like make you feel stupid, that is a sign that he's just not this like upfront, honest guy, you know, that would be a further example that this is a guy who might be kind of a bad boyfriend and when he gets cornered, kind of gaslights you a little bit, you know, because the, the correct response from him would just Be like, you know, yeah, you're right. I'll see you at, I'll see you at class and kind of smile and maybe throw you a little, I don't want to say, I wish I could say something, but I'm not going to say it type of energy. That's the appropriate response from him. If he tries to make you feel stupid, you should clock that and you should hold him accountable in your mind. And anything else is you just playing his game and selling yourself short. And again, someone who does have an ego. Great, you have an ego. But make sure you know your worth. Don't have your ego trigger your insecurity and have it question your value because a guy made you feel like you read a situation wrong. You're not reading it wrong. There's no world where this guy should be going on a walk with you, asking you out to grab drinks. Like, it shouldn't have taken him two months to bring up the fact that he had a girlfriend. They just shouldn't.
- [35:45]
Caller Aaron
Well, and, and that's to, to me, but also like, because like I said, we spend a lot of time like as a, like as a group, like everyone in the program. Like, we talk about like our families or like, you know, like our jobs, like our experiences and stuff like that. And like I said, ample opportunity to bring it up and didn't do it one time.
- [36:05]
Nick
Yeah, and maybe. And you couldn't be the sole reason why, but the point is he didn't and that matters. And again, you're not stupid, you know, and he can try to make you
- [36:15]
Host 1
feel stupid, but trust your gut.
- [36:18]
Nick
And if he's like, what are you talking about? Just be like, okay, listen. And again, that's not you saying you're obsessed with me. And I know you're in love with me. You're just like, listen, I don't take walks with guys who have girlfriends. When was the last time you gone on a walk with a guy that you're like just straight up friends with?
- [36:41]
Caller Aaron
I don't think I've ever done that.
- [36:43]
Nick
There you go. So if he tries to make you feel stupid, be like, yo, I don't again, maybe we're just on. Maybe we think the different things of friendships, but I don't take walks with friends. Guy friends.
- [36:55]
Caller Aaron
Okay?
- [36:56]
Nick
And you just be very confident about it and very matter of fact. And you could be a little playful. Chances are he definitely has a crush on you. You're not stupid. You know, like, you're reading it wrong. You're just, you're reading it Right. You're just lying to yourself a little bit because you, it's, you're. You. You're caught up in this drama. You are enjoying the drama. It's a little fun. It's a little exciting and exciting, yes,
- [37:18]
Host 1
but draining, sure too.
- [37:20]
Caller Aaron
Like, enjoy draining, for sure.
- [37:23]
Nick
You know, we all listen. We, we, we spend a lot of time on things that don't make us feel good, but it is exciting. Like, again, like, our brain prefers pain to boredom. In a new city where everything's new, this is definitely keeping you not from being bored or feeling lonely. And your body definitely prefers that. At least your brain does. But like, the healthy long term choice is to be okay with being slowing things down and not having that drama or that immediate stimulation. And it's okay to feel a little lonely at first. You know, it's. It's a growth process. You have all the answers, right? You. You have all the answers. You just got to trust your gut. You got to ask yourself the right questions. And when you find yourself making excuses for yourself or for him, then you have to check yourself like, well, I don't know if it's really this, you know, because if you're doing stuff like that, you know that your gut is. Knows the answer, right? And you're trying to, you're trying to debate your. With yourself. Well, you know, maybe it's not that. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. So, okay, at the end you got to ask yourself, what do I really want out of this experience? And maybe you can have both. But like, I, I wouldn't. You know, the la. You. You just started this. The last thing. You don't want to start this off with some kind of toxic situationship or some crush on someone that allowed yourself to get into a place because he pretended to want to be your friend for a while and then it just gets a little messy and hairy and then you're spending way more time thinking about him than this program that you're in.
- [39:03]
Caller Aaron
Right? That's definitely my priority. I mean, I like, moved and quit my job and did all these things just to be here.
- [39:12]
Nick
The guy you want to be with has the emotional maturity to not be the reason why you're not focusing on the thing you should be focusing on. He is. He's being a little messy and, and you're going along with it.
- [39:28]
Caller Aaron
Okay, so.
- [39:30]
Nick
And stop saying yourself. He's checked all my boxes. There's only one flaw with him. He has a girlfriend. That. That's not true. You have a crush on him. And there are a handful of red flags that he's already shown you.
- [39:43]
Caller Aaron
Yeah, definitely a handful, that's for sure.
- [39:46]
Nick
So just make sure that's the narrative you're telling yourself and not the, he's Mr. Perfect with a girlfriend, okay? And if you handle it the right way, you'll have a shot with him, you know, because he might again, like, I don't know, maybe. Maybe this. There's a good chance this won't work out with his girlfriend. It's long distance, you know, it's like he's got other things going on. But make sure he handles this in a way that you can respect and not start questioning after you get what you want, because that's what you do. It's just like you're. Now you're, you know, you're deluding yourself and you're. You're making excuses because you want this thing, which is kind of pursue them and date them. But if you go about it this way, once you get what you want, you will start second guessing it and be like, well, wait a second, now that I have what I want, like, was that kind of fucked up?
- [40:30]
Host 1
Are you.
- [40:31]
Nick
Are you kind of a piece of shit?
- [40:32]
Caller Aaron
No, that's a hundred percent how I think too, because I'm like, well, if something were to like, happen off the back of it, like, maybe like later on in the year or something, or maybe it doesn't. But in the event it does, I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to start something like that. Like, in my moral compass, it just wouldn't sit right with me. And then I think there would be like a question in my head, which we've like, brought up, is how would I feel if that were me?
- [40:59]
Nick
Yeah.
- [41:00]
Caller Aaron
And it would suck really bad.
- [41:02]
Nick
All right, well, okay. I hope this was helpful. You have the answers.
- [41:08]
Caller Aaron
It was.
- [41:08]
Nick
Trust your gut, hold yourself accountable, and don't waste this opportunity on a guy who's shown you more red flags than green flags.
- [41:17]
Caller Aaron
Okay, I'll just do that then.
- [41:20]
Nick
All right, Keep us posted.
- [41:22]
Caller Aaron
Okay, I will. I'll let you know if anything happens.
- [41:25]
Nick
All right, take care.
- [41:26]
Caller Aaron
Okay, y' all too. Thank you.
- [41:27]
Nick
Bye. Bye.
- [41:29]
Host 1
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- [44:08]
Nick
how's it going?
- [44:09]
Caller Leah
It's going good, Nick. My Name's Leah, I'm 39 years old and this is my partner Cole, and, and he's 35.
- [44:17]
Nick
Nice to meet you both.
- [44:18]
Caller Leah
I'm wondering how to show up in my current relationship when my partner's history and past relationship keep showing up.
- [44:28]
Nick
Okay. How long you guys been together?
- [44:30]
Caller Leah
We've been together for a year, about a year and a half now.
- [44:33]
Nick
Okay.
- [44:34]
Caller Leah
And it's a lot to do with his past relationship with his ex wife.
- [44:38]
Nick
Okay. Can you tell me more?
- [44:39]
Caller Leah
Yep. So I, we met. Yeah. About a year and a half ago. We both have children, so it was a bit of a blended mix from the beginning. But when I first met him, he was still living with his ex wife at the time. They had been divorced legally for a number of months, but we're still living together. And so I feel like in the beginning it set the precedence that there was still some unfinished business. But the connection between us was really strong and I think we both just kind of honed in on that and I feel like, like for a long time I ignored a lot of the so called red flags or gut feelings that there was some unfinished business on the other side. So she can be very manipulative and controlling when it comes to navigating co parenting and that stuff. And so it's just interfered in our relationship with our plans and ability for me to trust that I'm the priority in our relationship and how to move forward with that in our lives.
- [45:43]
Nick
First, I'm just curious, like, are you aligned with what Leah is saying?
- [45:46]
Caller Cole
Oh yeah, totally.
- [45:47]
Nick
Okay.
- [45:48]
Caller Cole
It's like everything she's saying, it's very accurate.
- [45:50]
Caller Leah
Okay.
- [45:51]
Nick
Well, part of what she was saying was that like whatever your ex wife was doing was causing Leah to have trust issues. And I'm, and I guess I'm just, I guess question for both of you. Like, no doubt an ex can be a pain in the ass and certainly the fact that you guys co parent limits your guy's ability to, you know, completely shut something down. But an ex can't make us not trust our current partners. They can be annoying. But as long as you trust each other to enforce boundaries and set expectations, trust is something that, you know, you guys control. It's not something people outside the relationship control.
- [46:34]
Caller Leah
Sure, yeah. I think when I first wrote in it was we were at kind of a point in the relationship where there wasn't a lot of acknowledgement from him about the dynamic of the relationship. And it had been a year and a bit of me telling him constantly how uncomfortable I felt or that I wanted him to set some more boundaries in the. With his partner. And then it started to show up. As for me feeling like he was just being a bit more sneaky or withholding the conversations or stuff that was going on on the other side, like, a little cagey. A little. Yeah. And I was getting this gut feeling, like, what's going on over here? And I'd bring it to his attention. And he's really good, like, an amazing partner in that he will listen to my feelings. So I was constantly saying something doesn't make sense. Like, you're telling me this, but your actions aren't matching up with your words, and I'm not feeling like the priority. And then I think when I wrote in, I had found out more information about how they were, like finance. There were still these financial pieces and legal ties to their relationship that I wasn't privy to. So I just felt like all this stuff kept coming up throughout our relationship. And every time I'd be like. I'd pull away, because that's usually my go to is to just, like, pull away a little bit. And then he would kind of come in and be like, everything's like, I'm gonna work on this or figure it out. And then I would trust again and, like, fall back into our routines, and then something else would come up. So when I wrote in, it was kind of like I had hit a breaking point in the relationship where I was. I told him, I need space. I'm done. But at the same time, like, I want to be in this relationship. I love him. We. Our connection's so strong. But.
- [48:15]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [48:16]
Nick
Cole, do you have. Do you have an example of what Leah is talking about? In. Relates. In relations to, like, things between you and your ex that she kind of discovered that you realized bothered her?
- [48:29]
Caller Cole
Yeah. So, like, the moments where I would get either, like, a text or a phone call from my ex partner. Not that it was anything to hide from Leah, but I. I guess I didn't. I. I saw it as. I didn't want it to interfere between our relationship because it was always so minimal. It was always something to do with our child over, like, such, like, mundane things that, like, now I can. I can look back and understand that, like, I would look at my phone and see a text message or a missed call, but I wouldn't address it. It right then and there. I wouldn't really include her in that part of my life. I can say I Guess. Okay, so that's why I can understand why she would feel so left out or out of the loop or like I'm trying to hide or kind of be like, just hiding things from her. Mainly because my. My ex partner, they're a different person, and I didn't want that part of my past life to show up in something so great and so healthy. And in this relationship with Leah, I guess back then, like, a year and a bit ago, I wouldn't. I didn't really admit the reality of the type of relationship that I had
- [49:42]
Nick
with my ex, which was.
- [49:44]
Caller Cole
It was very abusive, like, emotionally and mentally. So I learned. I mean, I've learned recently through a lot of. A lot of counseling in the past couple months, like, I would go right to my head and deal with. Or I would try to deal with a lot of things without really, like, addressing how it was making either one of us feel, me or Leah. And, like, I think, like, the fears and. And like, the trauma from the abuse, it was enough for me to pretend, like, everything was all good on that side, and I didn't want it to show up in the relationship with Leah. So I would. I would talk it down a lot, though. Like, I would say, oh, my ex partner, like, it's all good. Like, we're friends. We just have a lot to talk about because we share a daughter. But in reality, like, I was really avoiding talking about, like, the fear that I had to kind of, like, take control of my life now.
- [50:40]
Nick
Okay, and how are. How did you guys go about dealing with that?
- [50:44]
Caller Cole
Well, it continued on for quite a while the past year, like, only, like, I've just gone through a couple months of counseling, and it's been, like, the best thing for me. And I can now I can fully talk about, like, the bad parts of the last relationship where, like, I did feel very trapped. And even when we. We separated and divorced, it didn't give me the, like, the freeing feeling that I thought it would give. Like, I kind of have explained, I've always felt kind of hostage and that I don't have a say with me and my ex to do with our daughter. And everything was very much like, we're parents to our daughter. Like, you have to be willing to, like, answer my calls and phone calls,
- [51:26]
Caller Leah
and there was never any separation agreement or anything in place. So she, the ex was very much wanted to control everything. It was very dictate every parenting arrangement, every schedule, every holiday, and he would just go along with it to appease her to avoid any conflict.
- [51:43]
Caller Cole
I felt Like I didn't, I didn't have a way to honestly take a stand against my ex partner in like, in the simplest way to put it. There was just so much fear and like, like I was very scared to bring it to this relationship and I didn't, I didn't know how to talk about it. So in my head I would just try to like handle things and acknowledge things behind the scenes with, with my ex partner. And then when I was with Leah, like the whole world could have not been existent. And it was great. When I was with Leah, like our connection is so great, like we've said. And it was enough for me to forget like my past relationship and I was very like oblivious and blinded that how much it was really interfering. But it continued like that for like a year and a half. An issue would come up. I would be able to listen to Leah very well and understand enough to go to my head to try to like pick up pieces to make almost like, like a band aid fix. All because I realized I wasn't able to open up and just explain like how it felt like, like in my chest kind of about like the real pain and the fears. I would say like I kind of let her on making it seem like the, the co parenting I have with my ex was more normal than it was. Like it's just for our child, like there's nothing to worry about and there was nothing to worry about. I just didn't know how to set any boundaries on that side of my life.
- [53:04]
Nick
I mean, just, I'm just curious. Did you at this point know what normal was for co parenting?
- [53:09]
Caller Cole
No, honestly, our relationship, it was, it was very, it's a very long relationship and it was, it was kind of my one and only relationship. So like, I don't come from, I hadn't came from many experiences.
- [53:22]
Nick
Yeah.
- [53:23]
Caller Cole
So to me, I, I had no control early on and I never had control. And then even when we divorced, it just continued that way. Like I didn't know another way. Honestly.
- [53:33]
Nick
Yeah, I mean I, I, you know, I don't, I haven't been in your position but you know, no one plans on, on having a child with someone and getting divorced. It's certainly common. It has happens all the time, but we don't plan for it. And when it does, like, you know, I don't know if we know what normal is. Right. So I think it'd be important for you to give yourself some grace. And Leah, it would, you know, probably be helpful. And I'm sure you have given him Grace, when it comes to like, just acknowledging that, it's like, you know, just like, I think it makes sense that Cole didn't know better, you know, on a lot of things. That being said, you guys met up, you know, post separation, you both have kids, and again, like, you know how this conversation started. It's just like, I feel like you guys, and maybe you're already starting to do this, have to sit down and figure out your expectations and boundaries, knowing that you both have to talk to your exes, you have. You share children together, you know, you have to co parent. So you two just have to get on the same page and what you guys both think is fair and reasonable when it comes to co parents. And I would, you know, I've never done this before, so, you know, I'm obviously no expert in this, but I would assume that you guys probably can, for the most part, have similar expectations of what's normal and what's not and what's a fair ex, you know, boundary. But knowing that, you know, I don't know how your ex is, Leah.
- [54:58]
Caller Leah
Well, I think that that plays how I feel about a lot of it is. Mine was also very abusive and manipulative. And so I come in it with this preconceived notion that when that happens, you need strict boundaries and you need, you know, proper structure with parenting. And so I think from the beginning, I could sense that from what he would tell me about his ex and their relationship, it was very toxic and unhealthy and they were still living together at the time. And it was kind of like I tried many times to. And maybe I was a little bit more pushy than I should have been, but, like, very. You need to do this, go to mediation, go get a lawyer, like, get a separation agreement, do these things. Because it's helped me dramatically in mind. But I'm also nine years out of my co parenting, so, like, we're in. We're. It's easy breezy now. Yeah, we don't have a lot of communication. We only communicate for the child. And so I would always be trying to help him see the light at the end of the tunnel, I guess you could say. But that also impacted our relationship too, because it was kind of like, I know from him, he was always like, well, my relationship's very different than yours. And. And I'm cognizant of that. But at the same time, it's, you know, I can identify the abuse and the manipulation and yeah, yeah, I mean,
- [56:17]
Nick
listen, it's a tough balance to Try to not, you know, to. How can I be helpful with. Without comparing and how cold can you be open to the help that Leah is willing to help, but not feel like she's kind of minimizing your experience, knowing that like, you know, they might both be jerks and a little emotional, you know, abusive in some way. But they are, they were different. And, and Leah, you obviously are nine years removed from it. And so nine years is a pretty long time and you have a different memory of it. And you know, and obviously this is very fresh for Cole also. Just like, I think something to record, you know, Cole's the man in this situation. And I think more people, when we hear these types of stories about emotional abuse, I think we're just more willing to give grace to women who are in that situation than men are.
- [57:09]
Caller Cole
And I mentioned that as well. Like, to me it felt it was under or it was against like the normal, like, I hate to say normal of like an abusive relationship, but yeah, I did admit, like, it didn't seem like something I could complain or be scared about because I was the older partner and the male. And you to me, I mean, I've only had the one relationship, so it didn't seem like, yeah, I was actually being like the abused one.
- [57:36]
Nick
Yeah, if you, if you go on Tick Tock or online, I mean, it's like half of men are emotionally abusive and it's not even possible for women to be, you know, so it's like, it's, it's a hard narrative to, you know, I just imagine if you're a guy in that situation that you were in, call. It's. It again can be scary to be like, no one's gonna believe me, you know. And then when it comes to being a father and wanting to like have access to your kids, there's another, I think, fear that a lot of men have when they leave marriage is a relationship with kids is to like, I need to be careful how I go forward because access to my kid might be weaponized against me and I probably won't be giving be given the benefit of the doubt. And so those experiences that obviously are just, I imagine were very different, you know, Leah, when then you went through it, I guess it just comes down to like, give. Having all these conversations. Leah, you have to ask yourself how much of our issues are just like, listen, I met a man who I really have this great chemistry with and I met him at a time where he didn't have it all his shit figured out. He's not several Years removed from a messy divorce, he's in the thick of it, actually. That can be really, really difficult. And. Yeah. And then kind of ask her, is this annoying and frustrating from your standpoint, Leah, or is it. Or is this like a red flag where it's just like, I don't know. I think Cole's kind of shady and like, kind of like, what's your gut tell you?
- [59:08]
Caller Leah
I think in the beginning I wanted. I mean, I think I know who he is to his core as a person. And I always struggled with, like, is he just fearful of her but can't acknowledge that, or is he just making it very clear? And to give some more context to my triggers around it too, in my past relationship literally ended because my last partner couldn't set boundaries with their ex. And it came down to they just said, in the end, I'm not going to change the dynamic over here, so you either take it or leave it. And at that time, it was like, I knew I couldn't stay in that relationship if things didn't change. And so I left that relationship and never looked back. And I think looking into this relationship pulls very different in how, like, I know he's like a genuine person and I truly believe that, but it was hard to grapple with. Is this fear that he can't acknowledge or admit, or is it that he truly wants to keep this amicable co parenting relationship that he claims for the sake of his child, even though it's inter. It's impacting whether we can go on a vacation. It's impacting whether I want to move in with him. It's impacting whether we want to start a family together. And so I think I really struggled with that, but. And that was before. That was when I wrote in. And now there's been a lot of revelations and he's been doing counseling and he's pushed for this separation agreement. And so I think now we're able to talk about his relationship from a different perspective where he can acknowledge with me, whereas before he couldn't do that. And so I think for me it was like, it was getting to the point where it was like, I need to leave this relationship. Like, it doesn't feel safe for me.
- [60:59]
Nick
Yeah, well, yeah, well, that's. I mean, it seems like you went about it in, like a healthy approach. Right? I mean, it sounds like you left that last relationship you referred to. They ultimately, again, were like this, you know, this dynamic, this other dynamic is more of a priority because I am not willing to make change.
- [61:21]
Host 1
Why it was a priority.
- [61:22]
Nick
You know, the kids, whatever.
- [61:23]
Caller Leah
Yeah.
- [61:24]
Nick
And that. That was a clear statement to you, which is like, this. This relationship between us is a secondary priority for me. And if. And if you're okay with that and you're willing to make the adjustments, then I. I'll make this work. But I'm not flexible on earth aspects of this other relationship. Right. And so you made the obvious, no doubt, difficult choice to be like, that's.
- [61:46]
Caller Aaron
I don't.
- [61:46]
Nick
I didn't. I didn't get divorced only to, you know, having someone point out a second priority. And then. And then you meet Cole, co parent, ex, whatever. And it sounds like you're trying to figure out, is this, like, what are Cole's intentions? Because the other part, you know, the other partner, like, made it clear, like, their intentions. My intention is to not change anything about this dynamic. And it sounds like Cole's intention was, like. My intention is to, like, try to survive this breakup and have a relationship with my kid. And I don't know how to do that yet. And I think that's a huge difference between someone drawing a line in the sand confidently and being like, listen, I'm just gonna be straight up with you. This is my life, and if you want to fit into my life, you can do it. Versus someone like Cole being like, I don't think I can go. I don't. I don't know. I don't think I can go on this trip. She's, like, kind of, like, kind of telling me. I just, like, she's kind of making, like, is she threatening me? I'm not even sure. Like, that type of energy. Right. And so that makes sense.
- [62:49]
Caller Leah
Yeah. And I think I've never wavered on his intention to, like, make this relationship work, too. I think that's the difference. Whereas in the last relationship, it got to the point where it was, like, just, like, very clear in the sand. We did couples counseling for a while, and it just wasn't working. And so I had no problem in that relationship walking away. And I never. We didn't have a kid together in that relationship, but I never spoke to them again. Like, I had no problem just cutting it and acknowledging that that was the decision. Whereas in this relationship, I'm feeling this, like, gravity to keep going back, even though I feel like. And I think that's what I'm kind of grappling with now is, like, this fear to fully commit in. Back into this relationship and when to trust that, like, I want to have. We've talked about maybe having another Kid together or like even moving in. We don't live together right now, but that I'm struggling with how to trust my gut, I guess, in a relationship and not.
- [63:45]
Nick
Yeah, well, I mean, baby steps. I mean, you. You said that you wrote in. I don't know. I don't know when you wrote in, but there's been some progress since you wrote in and some meaningful progress. And you guys just both have to accept that, you know, despite your connection that you have, you. You both bring baggage in this relationship. And that's, you know, that is the reality of your situation. And right now it seems like Cole brings in a little bit more baggage because, like, his divorce is fresher. There's a little bit more uncertainty about, like, how he's supposed to go about things. But, like, sounds like you've made a meaningful step. Just like communicating to Cole. Like, these are, you know, listen, our relationships aren't identical, but there's some basic things you're not doing that you should be doing. You know, separation agreement. You know, like, especially as a man, a father, like, you need to understand your rights. You need to fight for your rights. You need to, like, if, if you're. If you're with a. A person who's uncooperative, then you need to make sure that, like, you're you. I think we both agree. And I think what's something that Leah struggled with and you struggled with Cole is so much seemed to be dictated by the unpredictability of your ex, Cole. You know, it's like, how is she gonna be today? And then, then Leah, you had to be like, well, how is Cole gonna react to his unpredictable, predictable X as opposed to. And then she might always be unpredictable, but this sep. You know, separation agreement, again, I don't know all the things you have to do. But again, just doing what you can do and can. Controlling what you can control so that you can get a clearer picture of how you're going to go about co parenting. And it might not look exactly like your situation. Leah. Right. You know, as a mom, you probably have. I don't know what state you're in and the laws and things like that. But his situation, your situation might look different.
- [65:35]
Caller Leah
We're up in Canada, so it's a bit, bit different up there.
- [65:39]
Nick
But yeah, yeah. So this is progress. And I think right now it's. I think that's important is that you're seeing progress and you're seeing Cole's intention to try to figure this out. And then it's. It seems like you also have empathy for him that he's in a, It's a, It's a tough situation he's in that he's got to try to figure out. But he is figuring it out and he's not resistant to it, which I think is a good sign, definitely.
- [66:05]
Caller Cole
And I am now, like, I do want to say LyIa from day one has been like, more supportive than anyone could have asked for. I was just, it was too much, like, hoping, like, I think we're all good. Like, I'm just hoping that she'll, that my, my ex will just leave me alone. I was hoping that I could go two days without being reached up to. But Leah has always been there to help me. Like, she gave me so much advice on how and what to do. I just, I couldn't show up in that way in that moment.
- [66:34]
Nick
Yeah, that makes sense. And again, like, I mean, you know, the. Her reaching out, you know, for whatever reason, you guys have to figure out what does that look like? Right? You know, at first it sounded like she was reaching out. And Cole, you're like, I don't. Do I tell her? Do I not tell her? Is this something that's going to upset her? Just like, I don't know, I'm not doing anything wrong. It's just like, you know, and so
- [66:51]
Host 1
you just have to figure it out,
- [66:52]
Nick
you know, And Leah, if you're just like, listen, I just, like, for my peace of mind right now, can you just let me know when she reaches out and why and we can figure it out together? That's exactly it, you know?
- [67:02]
Caller Leah
Yeah, that's exactly what we've come to lately, recently.
- [67:06]
Nick
I do think to some level, and I am no expert when it comes to this stuff, but I would say power dynamics is one of the most important aspects of any relationship. And making sure those power dynamics are overall equal and depending on the age we are compared to our, you know, like, I'm much older than Natalie, so that's something we have to consider as a couple. Life experience, things like that. But like, because when this situation, Leah, you have more experience and you're through it, you're potentially at risk of being a little condescending, being a little bossy, being a little like, this is how you have to do it. And that's just something you're, you know, you're going to want to watch out for because you're. That. I think that makes your relationship a little at risk of shifting that power dynamic in a way that's gonna like potentially trigger Cole, given that he was coming out of a relationship where he was with someone who really seemed to abuse the power that they had in that relationship. So I think it's trying to find that balance between being helpful, but knowing to also allow Cole to work through this and sometimes just ask Cole, how can I help? Or how are you feeling? Rather than telling him what he should do every time a situation comes up.
- [68:20]
Caller Leah
Yeah, that's good.
- [68:21]
Nick
And it's something you have to work on because, like, when we know things, it's like, I'm not trying to be condescending. I'm trying to help you out. I'm just like, you know, you're doing dumb things, and it's frustrating and. And, you know, it's like, you know, it's. It's tough, right? Because. And those. Like, in those nuanced situations, you know, you want to be the teacher and is. And, you know, it's like, this is your partner, not your. Not your student, not your child, not your. You know, this. It's your equal. So you always have to try to be an equal, even when you're trying to help them out.
- [68:49]
Caller Leah
I think I've definitely struggled with that, for sure.
- [68:52]
Nick
Yeah.
- [68:52]
Caller Aaron
Yeah.
- [68:53]
Caller Cole
It has came across as, like, it has been super helpful because I know there's been moments where I could. I could have just been, like, I could just tell her, like, how this feels right now, but she's always been like, let me know how I can help you. Or, like, if you need to do, like, let just, like, reach out or talk to me.
- [69:10]
Nick
Yeah.
- [69:11]
Caller Cole
And there were so many times where I'm like, I could just tell her just like, a quick little thing, and it would open up, like, the floodgates maybe. But I just. I pretended like it was all good.
- [69:19]
Caller Leah
So, yeah, I think he struggled with. Because I would. I was always hyper aware that I was coming across as, like, I know better than you. And so I was always like, if I'm doing something or saying something or pushing too far in the wrong direction, like, please let me know. But he would always be like, oh, no, everything, it's fine. Like, what you're doing is helpful. It's fine.
- [69:40]
Nick
But, yeah, I mean, it could have been a little bit of both. Also, there's a little. Probably a little denial you're going through. Call words like.
- [69:48]
Caller Cole
Yeah. Like, I've recently said that I didn't want to admit. I didn't. I haven't wanted to admit that part. And I don't admit this to anybody else. With Leah, she's The only one that has known about my past. So obviously I haven't wanted to admit that to anybody. And I just didn't want to admit that someone exists like this person does. And the toll I guess that has taken on me. Yeah, Yeah. I just. I didn't. I've always thought that, like, no partner would want to know about a crazy ex, so I didn't want to let her know about her crazy. Yeah, yeah.
- [70:22]
Nick
You know, that makes sense, right? No. And also, like, it's kind of like a dating rule. Don't talk about your exes. Because, you know, it's like, totally. Yeah, yeah. It's really just kind of striking that balance because quite frankly, you don't want to spend a lot of energy talking about your ex. And it's just like your ex is your ex. You just have to accept who she is and then ask yourself, how do I handle this? How do I deal with it? How do I avoid conflict? How do I avoid drama with this person? And it's just not going to take some time to figure it out. But where you can be helpful, Leah, Be helpful, especially when it comes to just the basic stuff, you know, anyone, man or woman, leaving a marriage with a kid should be doing to protect their rights. And if. If you're not doing that, Cole, because you just didn't know or realize, or your just emotional energy was just more like in survival mode. Make sure you're taking her advice.
- [71:15]
Caller Cole
Totally.
- [71:15]
Nick
Because there's probably some definitely basic things you should be doing.
- [71:18]
Caller Cole
Oh, yeah, for sure.
- [71:19]
Nick
And just, I don't know, just like check in with each other. It's just like, you know, let Cole ask for help. Cole, when she gives you help, that's helpful. Make sure you're like, hey, that was helpful. Thank you. And I think it also can be okay for Cole to say, I don't need your help right now, or just give me a beat. And I think also just emotionally, Leah, I think you have probably have to give him some grace for allowing Cole's ex to trigger him and have that not feel a certain way for you. Like he's somehow emotionally attached to her. He is attached to her. You guys have a kid together. And you of all people should know what it's like to have an ex just be a pain in the ass. And it bothers you, but it doesn't. But it doesn't mean you miss them or that doesn't mean you, like, are thinking about them or emotionally connected. You're connected through the child that you have. And like, that's frustrating, and you feel powerless and helpless. And a lot of that anxiety and fear that you might see from Cole is probably just that. So try not to project or read into stuff like that.
- [72:23]
Caller Leah
Yeah, that makes sense.
- [72:25]
Nick
Is this helpful at all?
- [72:27]
Caller Cole
Totally.
- [72:27]
Caller Leah
It was. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It feels like we. Like, when I. Again, when I wrote in, we were at this crossroads, and I was planning to just call in on my own, too, and I wasn't sure where we would. Where our relationship was going at that point. So even over these last couple months, I can acknowledge we've made a lot of progress in the right direction. But I know, like, we're both still doing individual counseling, and then eventually we'll come back together and do some couples counseling.
- [72:54]
Nick
That's awesome.
- [72:55]
Caller Leah
But we're just kind of in this limbo phase right now where it's. I'm still a little bit hesitant to. To fully commit and move forward, and. And he's still just kind of working through all the logistic pieces with this. His ex.
- [73:07]
Nick
Well, that's okay. I mean, and. And moving forward can go at a slower pace. You've only been dead for a year and a half, and in much of that relationship, your chemistry and connection has kept it going all while you guys recognize that you guys both, and specifically Coles, had some unresolved things that need to be worked through. And only up until recently have you been able to, like, start doing that.
- [73:32]
Caller Leah
Yeah, the timeline's a bit. I mean, being 39 and wanting to possibly have another baby, too is kind of like.
- [73:38]
Nick
That is. Yes, that is something.
- [73:40]
Caller Leah
That's the time. That's the timeline. For me, that. But I also. It does feel like something I want to invest in. Like, our kids get along great, and it just. Again, every other aspect feels perfect and amazing. It was just this, like, one piece that. And not to minimize it because it did feel like a big piece, but it does feel like it's heading in the right direction.
- [74:03]
Nick
I have found in all the relations of. I had. And then the one I have today is the most meaningful thing about a relationship and an indicator of happiness and success is the feeling like your partner is willing to show up and make the effort and work through problems. And it seems like, again, there's been bumps in the road and ups and downs, but I'm getting the energy that you're both willing to figure things out. It's not perfect yet. There's a long way to go. Problems still exist. Problems will always exist. But just like, it sounds like you both know and Leah, you gave examples of what it's like to feel like you're in a relationship with someone who has some non negotiables about their willingness to show up and work on things with you, you know, in the relationship. You know, we're like. I feel like with Natalie and I, my wife, it's like our relationship and our connection is the top priority outside of our daughter. But that, that plays a big role. And so when there is disconnect, we both feel it and we both have this desire to close that gap. And I' in other relationships, but that isn't the case. You guys seem like you have that desire and it's not always going to be perfect and it's not always going to be easy, but there seems to be a willingness for you both to show up. And I, I have found that that matters most.
- [75:28]
Caller Cole
Yeah, that's, that's very true.
- [75:29]
Caller Leah
Yeah, I agree with that. And it does feel like that in this relationship out of like, I know for Cola this is only his second relationship ever and for me I've, I've had more experience but I do feel like this is the first out of all my relationships where the desire to show up and keep showing up is strongest for sure, given the most complexity in this relationship too. So.
- [75:54]
Caller Cole
And like on my part it is very new. Like I have. I would say that I've completely done like a 360, 180 or 180.
- [76:02]
Nick
Otherwise you're just back to where you are,
- [76:08]
Caller Cole
A 180. And I agree. Not just like I've talked a lot of talk and like how I or how Leah's mentioned, like the actions haven't really lined up now I'm trying to understand like I, I can keep talking but I have like it's a big difference for me that, that I know what actions will soon be showing up in place and hopefully to reassure that it's just not more talk because I know that's what it was in the past.
- [76:33]
Caller Leah
Yeah, I think that's kind of like it's, it's. I need to see some like action like follow through with boundaries and stuff like that for it to feel. Yeah, yeah.
- [76:42]
Nick
But I'm just curious, Cole, like in a perfect world, what is your relationship look like with your ex?
- [76:49]
Caller Cole
So now it's completely different now. Like I was just about to say, like I have like honestly got regained control or honestly not regained. I've gained control. I've taken back like what, what is mine as of lately. And it honestly it's just, it's communication through email, like, a couple times a month maybe. And that's honestly it. Like, when I have our child, it's private from her mom, and then when she has our child, it's private for me, like, it's just complete privacy and it's. My relationship with Leah is the priority now. And just equal parenting, like, it has. It just hasn't been equal, honestly.
- [77:28]
Nick
I mean, I'm just curious because I don't know what it's like to be in your guys's shoes. But, like, yeah, I mean, it makes sense why that's a healthy boundary, especially in your situation. But do each parents have, like, kind of different sets of rules? There are, like, when she's at mom's house, can she watch different movies than. Than when she's. Or eat different things? Or are you guys at least communicating about, like, hey, we hate each other, but, like, we both want the same thing for our kids. So, like, what does that look like? Or is there compromises there?
- [77:57]
Caller Cole
I would say it's much like the first thought of yours. I know it's not the same in each household. We do one week on and one week off. The same with Leah, with her child and her ex. But I've learned that I know I'm an amazing dad, and I know when I have my child, it's the best week ever for both of us. And then I know when she goes back to the other parent, it's kind of like, I don't want to say ignore it, but I just trust that the other parent is being a good parent. And I know that there's like. I know the TV time is probably different. I'm sure the food is probably different, and I'm sure, like, the attitude and the arguments are different. But, like, through counseling, I have learned that, like, I really just have to focus on my. My parenting time as a father.
- [78:42]
Caller Leah
And, yeah, they communicate about extracurriculars and all that stuff. Like, all the. The things that come down to. Yeah, what's best for the child.
- [78:49]
Nick
But.
- [78:50]
Caller Cole
But it's been too easy and way too convenient for us to communicate with each other where, like, I would never reach out to the other parents, but I was always the one being reached out to. And I felt a huge obligation to, like, reassure the other parent that, like, oh, our child is fine. Or like, yes, I've talked to them about an attitude issue, but I don't think it needs to be like that. It shouldn't be like that, in my opinion.
- [79:13]
Nick
Yeah, I mean, but it all makes sense, right? I mean, of course she might be a total nightmare, but I don't know, like, if for some reason that Nana and I separated tomorrow, like, it would just be normal for us to like, like, bounce ideas off each other. And she might not deserve your. Your presence, but, like, for a long time, you were the person she would go to. And like, I, you know, manipulative, sure. Annoying, yes. But, like, also, you know, it makes sense. And that's not to say that you shouldn't have been setting the boundaries, but, like, I spread maybe a note more. More of a note for you, Leah. It's just like some of these things that are obnoxious. It's just kind of like you, you, you again. It's just like you said, you met Cole at a time where he was fresh into this very early separation and he knew less than he knew. And it's obviously just been frustrating for you to meet him at that time, despite your connection. And then again, like, as you acknowledge, you've had two different experiences that are similar. One with your ex husband and then you have this ex partner where you probably were triggered by like, oh, not okay, and not this again. And so you probably have, oh, totally a shorter leash, you know, and, and, and things like that.
- [80:27]
Caller Leah
Yeah. Coming into this relationship. It was. I will never put myself in a relationship where my partner has a complicated relationship with their ex. Like, that for me was the irony of this whole situation was like, I was eight months out of this one where that's all that showed up in our relationship was their ex. And so I was like, when I met Cole, I was like, oh, you still live with your ex? Like, great, let's do this. Like, looking back, I'm like, I didn't follow any of my non negotiables or like, things that I had prepared myself for, but the connection felt so strong, like something just felt different that I was willing to give it a shot. So.
- [81:05]
Nick
Well, there you go. I mean, our non negotiables are, you know, we figure those out as our go. And maybe you didn't know what you're not non negotiable needed to be. It wasn't maybe that there was some complications with an ex, because like, I think if you have a child with an ex, there's always some kind of complications. I think the difference is, again, it comes down to Cole's willingness to work through those complications and be open to, like, realizing there's a better situation for me than when I have right now. And the flexibility that Cole brought to this relationship, which probably played a role in the chemistry you feel as opposed to your last relationship. There wasn't any flexibility with the complications exactly in that and, and that maybe was the non negotiable, you know, so seems like you guys are heading in the right direction.
- [81:52]
Caller Leah
Thank you so much.
- [81:52]
Nick
All right, now keep us posted on how things are going. We'd love an update for sure. I'm sure there's a lot of, a lot of people in relationships similar to your guys that, you know, this is obviously very messy waters and hard to navigate and different. Yeah, definitely. All right, well, good luck to both of you. I appreciate the call.
- [82:11]
Caller Leah
Thank you. Congratulations to you and Natalie too.
- [82:15]
Nick
I appreciate it. Thanks so much.
- [82:16]
Caller Leah
Yeah, take care.
- [82:17]
Nick
All right, bye. Bye.
- [82:18]
Caller Cole
See ya.
- [82:20]
Host 1
Well, we didn't plan on formula, honestly, most parents don't. But at some point a lot of us end up there. And when you're already exhausted, the last thing you want to stress is the ingredients in that formula. And that's why we have turned a Little Spoon before when we needed formula. Nally, you know, breastfed initially with river and she wanted to breastfeed as long as possible, but for whatever reason, her supply ran out and that was definitely a little frustrating for her. But what gave us peace of mind is knowing that we could count on
- [82:47]
Nick
the ingredients that go into Little Spoon's formula.
- [82:49]
Host 1
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- [85:29]
Nick
Do you ever find yourself playing a budgeting game?
- [85:31]
Host 1
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- [85:44]
Nick
Law not available in all states. How's it going?
- [85:47]
Caller Lucy
Hi, I'm lucy and I'm 33.
- [85:49]
Host 1
How can I help?
- [85:50]
Caller Cole
Lucy?
- [85:50]
Caller Lucy
I need help figuring out my situationship and where I stand.
- [85:54]
Nick
Tell me about it.
- [85:55]
Caller Lucy
Okay, so this is on and off for years.
- [85:58]
Nick
How many years?
- [85:59]
Caller Lucy
Years. It's kind of been back and forth. He hasn't lived in the same place as me since 2019. We go back and forth. We have like trips every so often. This past one he came to visit me. I was on a trip for work. It Went great. And then I went to go visit him a month after that. Same thing. Great trip. I kind of had a little bit of a breakdown because I was like, what is happening here?
- [86:17]
Nick
In the years of you guys having a situationship, have you ever been exclusive one?
- [86:23]
Caller Lucy
Nope.
- [86:24]
Nick
And how many times have you tried to make it a relationship?
- [86:28]
Caller Lucy
Maybe twice. It's kind of been like, I've kind of understood. He's. We, like, are off on life journeys sort of. Also, he was just like. He went to the military for a minute and then got discharged. And we live on the same coast, but not the same place.
- [86:44]
Nick
So regardless of life paths.
- [86:47]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [86:48]
Nick
If you had the choice, at any point, would you make him your boyfriend?
- [86:53]
Caller Lucy
Oh, yeah.
- [86:54]
Nick
Okay. So 100. That's. That's all that matters.
- [86:57]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [86:58]
Nick
As it relates to you.
- [86:59]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [87:00]
Nick
Now, he may feel differently, and it's certainly important to listen, but you are. When you tell the story to me, you are. You are telling his version, not yours.
- [87:10]
Caller Lucy
I see that.
- [87:11]
Nick
And. Which tells me you accept his version and you're. And. And he's, like, dictating the rules and. And. And. And you're kind of going about it that way, so.
- [87:20]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [87:21]
Nick
Yeah. So. Okay. Anyway, go ahead.
- [87:23]
Caller Lucy
So after this last trip, which was in November, I kind of just cut off contact, and I was like, let's see what happens. So we didn't talk for, like, a good month. And then he tried some, like, Instagram liking and all that jazz, but I didn't take the bait, basically.
- [87:34]
Nick
Okay.
- [87:35]
Caller Lucy
So then we didn't talk for, like, three months. And a few months or like maybe a month ago, I was. Had a couple cocktails and I was like, miss you kind of thing. And then we ended up talking, but it was like nothing ever happened. And then he said that he was hurt that I didn't reach out. And now I just, like, don't know. He was like my best friend kind of thing.
- [87:52]
Nick
He's not your best friend.
- [87:54]
Caller Lucy
I. Yeah. Yeah. Had a feeling you're gonna say it.
- [87:56]
Nick
Obviously someone you really care about. I'm sure you've exchanged a lot of emotional moments. He's also been there for you, I'm sure, at times. But yeah, it's always. It's always been at his convenience. And it's not something you've been consistently been able to rely on. And I don't know about you, but I don't think that. That's not how I would describe a best friend.
- [88:19]
Caller Lucy
No.
- [88:20]
Nick
You have a desire for him to be your best friend. You see the potential yeah. And in him being your best friend, but he's not been or isn't your best friend.
- [88:31]
Caller Leah
Yeah.
- [88:32]
Caller Lucy
So do I just kind of leave it at this point? Leave it how it is or what's the best.
- [88:37]
Nick
What do you want? You're still hopeful, right? Correct.
- [88:40]
Caller Lucy
Sort of. I feel like now I'm a little bit like this.
- [88:43]
Nick
Yeah.
- [88:44]
Caller Lucy
But it's been so long and I'm.
- [88:45]
Nick
But if you showed up tomorrow and said, I'm an idiot, I'm in love with you.
- [88:49]
Caller Lucy
Yeah. Probably.
- [88:49]
Nick
Okay. So that's fine. You just have to own it. Like, you're big. One of your. One of your problems is that you. You just. You're not really kind of going with it. You're kind of lying to yourself, making excuses for how your feelings. Playing the game with yourself. Like, I. I decided to cut off contact to see what happens. Like what? After six years of this? You need to know, you. You think something different's going to happen.
- [89:13]
Caller Lucy
No. You're right.
- [89:14]
Nick
He's gonna.
- [89:15]
Caller Lucy
Thought it was gonna be the saving grace or something.
- [89:17]
Nick
Yeah. So maybe there's only really one thing to do, which is you have to see it through.
- [89:22]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [89:23]
Nick
And that is at this state stage, he either wants to be with you or he doesn't.
- [89:29]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [89:29]
Nick
And anything in between is just a no.
- [89:33]
Caller Aaron
Yeah.
- [89:33]
Nick
And then you have to do the little things, like not for game playing. When was the last time you spoke with him?
- [89:40]
Caller Lucy
Like a couple weeks ago.
- [89:41]
Nick
A couple weeks ago. Okay, so not that long ago. Not that long ago. So it wouldn't be crazy for you to reach out to him.
- [89:47]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [89:48]
Nick
And say, listen, this is something I gotta say.
- [89:51]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [89:51]
Nick
I want to be with you. I've always wanted to be with you. You've known that, despite.
- [89:56]
Caller Aaron
Whatever.
- [89:57]
Nick
Whatever.
- [89:57]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [89:58]
Nick
I've wanted to figure out how we can make this work. I'm assuming your feelings haven't changed, but I no longer want. Whatever this is. The back and forth. You don't get to have expectations of how I communicate with you in the context of this relationship. Nor do I have expectations of how you're supposed to communicate with me. It's confusing. It's like we're not boyfriend and girlfriend. When do we show up for each other? When do we not show up for each other? It's all just a mess. So one. Like, do you want to date me? I'm assuming the answer is no. But I just wanted to check in. I wanted to shoot my shot one more time. On the outside chance your feelings have changed, but assuming they haven't. Like, I just. Please respect that. I just need to move on.
- [90:44]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [90:45]
Nick
And in the spirit of moving on, I'm going to block you. Not because you did anything wrong, but I just want to move on. And I don't want to deal with moments of weakness, of reaching out and saying, I miss you. If I've been drinking with the girls, or quite frankly, if you reach out to me.
- [91:00]
Host 1
I just.
- [91:00]
Caller Leah
Just.
- [91:01]
Nick
I want. I need. I don't. Don't. Please don't call me.
- [91:04]
Caller Aaron
Yeah.
- [91:04]
Nick
And short of you being ready to, like, make this work, don't call. That's the only thing that's left to do for you. And then you really need to see that through. He will be very resistant to respecting this boundary of yours.
- [91:17]
Caller Lucy
Yeah. I mean, he's tried to, like, test the waters a few times, and my therapist is like. He's just trying to see, like, what's going on. And I'm like, yeah, okay, but that's so annoying.
- [91:25]
Nick
No, he has to.
- [91:26]
Caller Lucy
The blocking comes into play, and he
- [91:28]
Nick
has to do more than just be like, yeah, okay, let's just try. What does try mean? Mean? Are you gonna be my boyfriend? Try. Like, okay. And honestly, why should I trust that? I want to do more than try. I want to, like. I mean, obviously try, but, like, are you really serious about this? Because you don't. You don't get to just do this to keep me around a little bit longer.
- [91:47]
Caller Lucy
I mean. Yeah, I feel like it's always just, like, in the back of my mind, and I'm like, okay.
- [91:51]
Nick
And that's the thing is, it's like, what is he willing to do?
- [91:54]
Caller Lucy
Probably not a lot.
- [91:55]
Nick
So I think more than anything, you just need to actually move on.
- [91:59]
Caller Lucy
Yeah. I just feel like it's very. I mean, the dating situation. I mean, I'm sure you hear this all the time, but the dating situation is just so bad.
- [92:05]
Nick
Yeah, but you're not helping yourself.
- [92:08]
Caller Lucy
I know. You're right.
- [92:09]
Nick
This doesn't help.
- [92:11]
Caller Lucy
Yeah, no, it's true.
- [92:12]
Nick
And he's already. He's shown you who he is, which is, you know, just, like, not your guy or at least not willing to be your guy. So.
- [92:19]
Caller Lucy
Yeah. All right, well, then I guess I'll send that text. I would call him and block him column.
- [92:25]
Caller Aaron
Okay.
- [92:25]
Nick
And that's not something you want to text.
- [92:27]
Caller Lucy
Yeah, that's true.
- [92:28]
Nick
So you need to show up. You need to, like, present a little kind of confidence and just be like, yo, this is.
- [92:33]
Caller Lucy
Yeah, this isn't it anymore.
- [92:37]
Nick
And just please respect that. And. And I Don't want to do this anymore. And. And, you know, I'm not mad. Just. I just want to move forward. Yeah, that's about it.
- [92:48]
Caller Aaron
Yeah.
- [92:48]
Nick
Yeah. You know, again, like you said, years. You know, it's been going on for years.
- [92:53]
Caller Lucy
Yeah, I know. It's definitely been on and off, too, so it's like whiplash, honestly.
- [92:57]
Nick
Well, his. From his standpoint, he is you. You've been really nice to have around when it's been convenient for him, and he's. Yeah, he's been able to manage and lower your expectations and. And get you to not have what you want, which is a relationship. He's preoccupied your time with the confusion of not knowing where you stand with him.
- [93:18]
Caller Lucy
Yeah.
- [93:19]
Nick
And that's emotional energy you've wasted on him rather than. Again, like, as you said, the dating world is. It's messy out there. It's tough. But you've. You've been juggling your emotional energy with him, which makes it harder.
- [93:33]
Caller Aaron
Yeah, sure does.
- [93:35]
Nick
Hard to meet someone new when you have one foot out the door.
- [93:37]
Caller Lucy
That's what I was trying to do when I stopped talking to him. I was like. But it's still there because it hasn't been said. I guess so.
- [93:43]
Nick
And again, part of the reason why I'm telling you to shoot your shot is so that you can get rejected one more time.
- [93:48]
Caller Lucy
Time. Yeah, for sure.
- [93:49]
Nick
And really put it in there that, like, this guy doesn't want to be with you.
- [93:52]
Caller Lucy
Like, feel it.
- [93:53]
Nick
And the let go of the hope that things are going to someday change or come around.
- [93:57]
Caller Lucy
That's definitely. Like, in those three months that we didn't talk, I kind of like. I feel like I grieved every part of it. And then we talked again. I was like, damn it.
- [94:05]
Nick
You know, listen, he cares about you. He likes you. He wants you in his life, and you've been generally available to him, and I guess he's just comfortable with the months, the. That, you know, he doesn't have you around. God knows he's doing other things.
- [94:17]
Caller Lucy
Oh, of course. Yeah. I mean, as am I, but. Yeah, sure.
- [94:20]
Nick
Yeah. Well, yeah. Let me know if anything changes.
- [94:23]
Caller Lucy
Yeah, for sure. I will. Thank you.
- [94:26]
Host 1
But, yeah, I think you need to
- [94:27]
Nick
have kind of like a breakup conversation with him and really play and then. And then you need to follow through because this could go on for more years. And that you. He is not gonna. He's not gonna let you go easily. You should not be romanced by that statement. It should annoy you.
- [94:43]
Caller Lucy
Yeah, no, it does annoy me.
- [94:45]
Nick
He's kind of keeping you emotionally hostage, but you are allowing it to happen. And so if you really want to be done with this and if you want to stop wasting this emotionally energy on this guy, you're going to have to see it through. And so, yeah, block him, you know, because that's. Otherwise you'll just get triggered and you'll have. We all have moments of weaknesses and so like, help yourself from not giving in.
- [95:10]
Caller Lucy
No, you're right. All right, I'll do it.
- [95:13]
Nick
Okay, take care.
- [95:14]
Caller Lucy
Thank you.
- [95:15]
Nick
All right.
- [95:15]
Caller Leah
Bye.
- [95:15]
Caller Aaron
Bye.
- [95:30]
Caller Lucy
We're lost. And the concert starts soon. I wanted to get there early. I'm gonna ask that man for directions. Hi there. We're trying to get to the amphitheater.
- [95:40]
T-Mobile Rep
Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree at this here road.
- [95:44]
Nick
Nah, I'm just kidding.
- [95:46]
T-Mobile Rep
Let me get my phone out.
- [95:47]
Caller Lucy
How is there signal out here?
- [95:49]
T-Mobile Rep
T Mobile and US Cellular are coming together. So the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five year price guarantee too. Okay, here's the 2 return.
- [96:01]
Caller Lucy
Actually, can you pull up the way to a T mobile store?
- [96:04]
T-Mobile Rep
America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available at U S Cellular stores in Hermiston. Best mobile network based on analysis by Oklo speed test intelligence data. Second half of 2025. Bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk, text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.
- [96:30]
Caller Lucy
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