E1108 - West and Amanda, Temptation Island w/ Xzavier, Horace Gold, Rachel Zoe Divorce Drama & Alex vs Alix

Summary

The Viall Files: Reality Recap — Episode E1108

Date: April 14, 2026
Title: West and Amanda, Temptation Island w/ Xavier, Horace Gold, Rachel Zoe Divorce Drama & Alex vs. Alix

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Episode Overview

This lively Reality Recap episode of "The Viall Files" features host Nick Viall, Natalie Joy, Leia, Susie, Mary, Justin, and special guests Horace Gold and Xavier (from Temptation Island). The crew dives into a wide array of topics, including the internet's obsession with West & Amanda's relationship fallout, behind-the-scenes of Temptation Island, the Alex Cooper vs. Alix Earle influencer drama, messiness on Bravo (from Summer House to RHOBH), and the nuances of masculinity and relationships both on and off TV. The tone is witty, open, and at times surprisingly deep.

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Main Discussion Segments & Insights

1. Opening Banter & Check-ins (01:03–07:00)

• Leia’s loss & reminder to be kind: Leia shares her father's recent passing, noting she's here for a needed distraction and to have fun. "You never know what's going on in someone's life. So be kind to everyone." (01:15, Leia)

• Coachella chatter: The group jokes about festival FOMO, funny influencer outfits, and the stress of performing a “Coachella aesthetic.” Susie reveals she’s prepping to freeze her eggs, so no wild partying for her.

• Memorable festival moment: Conversation about Justin Bieber’s performance at Coachella, including how intimate it felt post-catalog sale. “He doesn’t have to do all the bells and whistles—the real fans get it.” (04:31, Leia)

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2. West & Amanda: Situationship or Real Romance? (07:07–09:30; 18:39–24:49; 43:01–48:45)

• Internet skepticism: The group addresses their past doubts about West & Amanda's relationship, which started as an “April Fool’s joke.” Now it appears they're truly “leaning in”—spotted out in NYC, living publicly.

• Social media handling: Amanda’s announcement that she’s “getting back to normal” was debated, with Nick and Susie understanding the damned-if-you-do/don’t dilemma of managing online expectations.

  Notable Quote: “They’re hanging out at bars in New York for everyone to see...they are leaning the fuck in.” (07:18, Nick)

• Perspective on accountability: The panel, joined by Horace Gold, delves into the ethics and emotional fallout of Amanda & West’s choices. Leia and Susie argue Amanda’s actions were likely driven by vulnerability and friendship, while Leia places more accountability on West for being “level-headed” and calculated about the situation.

  Horace Gold’s hot take: “Cheating is a bad thing...Do I think you don’t deserve a job and a normal life? No. It is legal to be an asshole.” (42:20, Horace Gold)

• Friendship boundaries: “As an adult, you need people who truly have your back. After this, Amanda can’t ever be Sierra’s person.” (48:04, Nick)

  Leia sums up:

  “She was drunk on divorce and grief...West knew exactly what he was doing. He’s the real villain.” (44:40, Leia)

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3. Bravo & Reality TV Deep Dive (30:10–39:11)

• Horace Gold on festivals & social media: Shares a personal Coachella scam story and critiques influencer festival culture.

• Current obsessions: Horace is fascinated by Clavicular (“the looks maxxer” self-improvement influencer), Rhode Island as a reality TV setting, and the unique draw of Summer House’s West.

• Housewives talk: Panel dissects Rhode Island vs. Salt Lake City; reflects on authenticity, local drama, and why Monica Garcia “deserves everything.” (34:08, Horace Gold)

• Ashley’s café myth: Spirited fact-checking of the claim that Ashley & Jared’s cafe is the “#2 celebrity restaurant after Jon Bon Jovi’s,” poking fun at reality TV exaggerations.

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4. The Alex Cooper vs. Alix Earle Drama (12:38–18:19)

• The TikTok “call out”: Alex Cooper publicly calls on Alix Earle for “weird passive aggressive posts,” demanding transparency and denying any NDA. This bold move surprises the group given Cooper’s recent own controversies (platforming dubious guests, etc.).

  Notable Quote: “Usually public figures don’t sign NDAs. So the fact they’re not working together, that non-disparage clause is likely over.” (13:13, Nick)

• Hypocrisy & PR games: Leia and Susie note the irony of Cooper demanding openness while not addressing criticism herself: “She cares more about attention than the right thing.” (15:11, Leia)

• Underdog dynamics: Nick predicts fans will side with Alix Earle, “because people root for the underdog.” (16:43, Nick)

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5. Bachelor Nation Throwback: Nick & Sean Booth (09:32–12:22)

• Rivalry rehashed: Justin brings up Sean Booth’s recent interview reigniting their former on-screen tension, including the rumor that Nick “paid to be the Bachelor.” Nick reflects that it’s wild how reality TV pettiness can linger—"We probably spent less than three hours together, twelve years ago..." (10:53, Nick)

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6. Summer House’s Love Triangle: Ego vs. Real Feelings (18:39–26:28)

• Sierra/West/Amanda saga: Panel debates whether Sierra’s continued interest in West is ego-driven (“wanting to win after rejection”) or rooted in real emotional connection.

  Notable Quotes:

  “I think it’s feelings of love...Not ego.” (19:35, Justin)
  “Our feelings cloud our judgment...when we have feelings, it fucks up our ability to make a decision.” (24:32, Nick)

• Philosophical riff: Susie offers a “feelings vs. choice” model: “There comes a point where you have to insert choice or you’ll stay in the cycle forever.” (23:09, Susie)

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7. Pop Culture Potpourri: WNBA & Divorce Drama (51:00–61:03)

• WNBA as reality TV: Horace Gold highlights the soap-opera chaos in women’s basketball—romances, rivalries, team swaps—comparing the drama to Summer House:

  “It is literally sports and drama. It’s West, Sierra, and Amanda, but they’re lesbians. And they have to run a play.” (52:55, Horace Gold)

• Rachel Zoe’s divorce & “the new girlfriend”: Recent drama from RHOBH as Rachel Zoe’s ex’s new girlfriend publicly defends herself via Instagram, escalating the feud. Horace delivers a viral-worthy read:

  “You are coming in as the second string—know your place. There is a whole ecosystem built without you, and it will thrive without you.” (57:50, Horace Gold)
  “Don’t piss on my face and tell me it’s Gatorade!” (59:35, Horace Gold)

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8. Temptation Island: Interview with Xavier (63:48–78:40)

Key Segments & Timestamps

• [63:50] Intro to Xavier: A stand-out “tempter” with a gentle approach.

  • Nick: “You seem like great boyfriend material...how’d you end up as a tempter?”
    Xavier: “I’m just a regular engineer. My approach was about community, not stealing anyone.” (64:15)

• [64:39] Building a connection with Sydney

  • “I only focused on what I could control, and that was Sydney.” (65:11, Xavier)

• [66:09] His ‘good-man’ philosophy

  • Credits parents’ long marriage for teaching him what partnership means, focusing on listening and clear boundaries.

• [67:12] Guitar guy with a twist

  • Leia jokes: “I’m usually anti-guitar guy, but the electric guitar was a nice surprise.”
    Xavier: “I’m glad I didn’t bring my acoustic!” (67:18)

• [68:13] Entrance lines—cheesy or not?

  • “Some people were a little crazy with their intros.” (69:20, Horace Gold) — laughter at Willy Wonka–themed pickup lines.

• [70:09] No need for reconciliation with Mikey

  • Xavier confirms he has no interest in post-show drama with Sydney’s ex.

• [73:13] House dynamics

  • The women temptresses favor emotional connection; the guys’ house is more about bonding (even doing a “talent show” instead of a party).

• [74:21] Serious relationship talk on the island

  • “We dove deep: upbringing, values, where we want to live. It was more than just being in Hawaii.” (74:21, Xavier)

• [75:30] Positive masculinity

  • Panel observes how this season, “the men were actually the good listeners...showing up emotionally instead of just being fuckboys.” (75:54, Nick)

  Notable Farewell Quote:

  “On a show called Temptation Island...I was surprised to see good straight male representation on reality TV in 2026.” (76:42, Nick)

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9. Temptation Island Deep Dive & Gender, Ego, and Relationship Lessons (78:40–96:12)

• Panel discussion:

  • Are the boundaries for “cheating” on the show real or arbitrary?
  • The differences in male vs. female approaches to jealousy, respect, and emotional security.
  • Susie proposes: “Couples therapy is preventive, not restorative. Start when you’re happy!” (94:42, Horace Gold)

• Masculinity & perception

  • Horace expounds on how for many men, the perception of being “enough” matters more than physical infidelity:

    “You can’t unring the bell of you thinking I’m not man enough.” (88:12, Horace Gold)

• Learning from heartbreak

  • Nick underscores how, for many men, they rarely change until something catastrophic happens (“the Mikey Effect”).

• Body talk lesson

  • “If your girlfriend asks for workout tips on her body, NEVER get excited about it! Don’t even go there.” (95:33, Nick)

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10. Playful Finale & Calls to Action (99:27–100:29)

• The crew reveals their “stripper names” using the classic pet/street formula.
• Horace Gold shares the origin of his stage name.
• Outro and shout-outs to the guests.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “We all agreed Amanda was a bad friend to Sierra, but it’s more nuanced in practice. West...he’s the real villain.” (44:34, Leia)
• “Salt Lake City is lightning in a bottle. Monica Garcia deserves everything.” (34:08, Horace Gold)
• When discussing online influencer drama: “Alex Cooper really gave Alix Earle a gift—content for her Netflix show.” (16:43, Nick)
• “Don’t piss on my face and tell me it’s Gatorade.” (59:35, Horace Gold)
• “The perception of manhood is more important than the physical manifestation of it.” (87:11, Horace Gold)
• Susie’s sage advice: “Couples therapy is a seatbelt, not reconstructive surgery!” (95:07, Horace Gold)

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Conclusion

This episode blended classic Viall Files roster humor with genuinely thoughtful analysis of relationship dynamics—both from the world of Bravo and real-life psychology. In-depth pop-culture recaps, honest unpacking of friendship and romance fallouts, and iconic one-liners make this essential listening for reality TV devotees and relationship enthusiasts alike.

Don’t miss upcoming episodes with Joey Fatone, Amanda (RHOBH), and Paul Walter Hauser!

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Detailed Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |:---------|:----------------| | 01:03–07:00 | Opening, Coachella/Personal Updates | | 07:07–09:30 | West & Amanda Publicly Embrace Relationship | | 09:32–12:22 | Nick & Sean Booth Bachelor Rivalry | | 12:38–18:19 | Alex Cooper vs. Alix Earle Fued | | 18:39–26:28 | Sierra/West/Amanda Ego or Real Feelings? | | 30:10–39:11 | Bravo & Summer House Hot Takes | | 43:01–48:45 | Betrayal & Friendship Boundaries | | 51:00–61:03 | WNBA Drama & Rachel Zoe Divorce Dump | | 63:48–78:40 | Temptation Island Xavier Interview | | 78:40–96:12 | Temptation Island Analysis, Gender & Relationship Lessons| | 99:27+ | Stripper Names, Outro |

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Panel: Nick Viall, Natalie Joy, Leia, Susie, Mary, Justin
Guests: Horace Gold, Xavier (Temptation Island)

(Staying true to the group’s casual, lighthearted yet probing tone throughout)

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Susie]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

What' what's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of Reality Recap. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the rest of the household and my wonderful, gorgeous wife, who unfortunately, obviously has not been with us the past couple episodes.

[Leia]

I do just want to say I lost my dad last week. I'm definitely not in a place to talk about it or get into it, but I am here to be distracted and have fun and put my head in a different mental place and this is the best place to do it. So we're gonna giggle, we're gonna laugh, and let it be a reminder that you never know what's going on in someone's life. So be kind to everyone and, yeah, let's get into it.

[Nick]

We got Susie here, Leia's stopping by, Mary, Justin, everyone. It was just like a full house today. How's everyone doing? Everyone have a good weekend? Did you go to Coachella?

[Susie]

No, I just went to the parties you went to.

[Nick]

You. So you went.

[Susie]

That is like. And like, truly influencer.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Susie]

Yeah. You just, like went and, like, had

[Leia]

fun wanting to go to be Brucella?

[Susie]

No, I was like, oh, I don't know. I was okay with not. It's a lot. Yeah, like a full Coachella weekend is a lot. And you got to really be locked in and you got to be ready to party.

[Nick]

You have to have the right attitude.

[Susie]

You guys, I'm getting my eggs frozen in a month. I'm on vitamins. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm not. I'm not taking shots right now. Yeah.

[Leia]

I will say the crowd was getting ready for Justin at, like, 3:00'.

[Horace Gold]

Clock.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Leia]

So I can't imagine.

[Mary]

Oh, you know what's crazy? Have you guys seen about Coachella? The fact that Slater, who's like. Like Kesha's little sister, crazy party music was playing at 3pm oh. And then they had David Byrne from the Talking heads playing at 10:30pm I don't know who's, like, an old, old man.

[Susie]

Yeah. Sometimes the timing doesn't quite line up because it's weird heat. And I'm like, you won't catch me in there.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Did you still, like, get all dressed up for these parties or.

[Susie]

Well, I am just, like, not, like, I don't think my aesthetic, like, screams Coachella. So, like, I had just a cute dress on in cowboy boots.

[Nick]

And when you say, like, Coachella aesthetic,

[Justin]

you mean, like, decking?

[Susie]

Like, layers and layers and lots of bangles.

[Justin]

Lots of. Lots of belts. I saw this year, like, people were wearing, like, three or four belts.

[Susie]

Sparkles, body chains. Yeah. If somebody put me in it. And.

[Justin]

Right. Like, I also saw a lot of videos of people, like, getting my stylist, like, put this together. And now I'm.

[Susie]

Yes, yes. I saw a lot of videos of people being like, let's unbox my stylist.

[Justin]

And then it's just like, oh, no.

[Susie]

And it looks horrible. Like, it's. It's.

[Nick]

They put their stylist on blast.

[Leia]

No, I don't even like their stylist. I think this was, like, normal people who were like, hey, I don't know how to dress to Coachella. Like, can someone help me? They paid a couple hundred bucks for a stylist to, like, send them a box of clothes, and they not really exposed photos.

[Susie]

Yeah, Fishnet.

[Leia]

Just, like, Just, like, bad.

[Justin]

Just like the bras that they were saying, it was just like, how am

[Leia]

I supposed to wear this? Yeah.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Leia]

I definitely had FOMO from Bieber for sure.

[Justin]

And watch the video.

[Leia]

No, it's too late. I was tired, but I wish I watched it the next day. But I heard good things. Maybe next year people are hating on him.

[Justin]

Justin Bieber won't be here.

[Susie]

Really? I've seen mixed.

[Nick]

Is it mixed?

[Leia]

I think the people who are hating on him are just, like, not true fans.

[Susie]

Real ones.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Leia]

They're not real believers. And they don't realize that, like, the only way he was able to play Beauty and the Beat and Baby and favorite girl in all of those songs was to play them in front of a YouTube video because he sold his catalog and that was the only way he could give the fans what they wanted. So really he. And he was like discovered on YouTube. It was just such a full circle moment of like, wow, this is. He doesn't have to like do all of the bells and whistles and like he's done that. We've seen that from him. Like, this was just about pure talent and sitting and singing and it was. It like felt intimate even though there were hundreds of thousands of people there, like crazy.

[Nick]

He was really nice to Natalie and I had a Christmas party. So we'll forever be Bieber stands.

[Susie]

I love that Natalie.

[Mary]

If you could see Justin Bieber do one song live, what would it be?

[Leia]

Oh my gosh. Oh, that's tough.

[Susie]

That's tough.

[Leia]

Probably that should be me. Like I wish that I was there to have heard that.

[Mary]

Yeah. Cuz that should have been you.

[Nick]

That should have like, why are you on that song?

[Leia]

Because that should be me.

[Justin]

One less lonely girl.

[Leia]

Could you imagine if he did One less lonely girl and then pulled Haley up and like had her be his one less only girl?

[Susie]

Wow.

[Mary]

Her childhood fantasy would have actually come true.

[Susie]

Yeah, I think it already did.

[Justin]

I feel like she's living her childhood.

[Leia]

Yeah, that is true.

[Mary]

That is true.

[Leia]

I am curious to know if they conceived their second child Saturday night.

[Susie]

We'll find out soon.

[Justin]

I mean, watching someone perform on stage is hot.

[Susie]

And just like, Leah knows the way he was. Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, we have a great episode lined up for you. So much to get into. Amanda and west are really locked and loaded. They are full on this. This relationship went from us all thinking it was a bad April Fool's joke. Then they did their joint statement and we were like, I guess they're together. But we all kind of doubted it. We're all calling it a situationship. It was like this. This can't be. The Internet tried to break them up. But this weekend Amanda posted going into the weekend that, hey guys, I'm going to get back to my normal life. I'm going to start posting. Which by the way, what was she gonna do? Honestly, a lot of people pick that post apart. But I feel like you, I know you get it, right? You know that if like, you know, if the Internet is like, is expecting something from you and you're not gonna give it to em, that you almost

[Susie]

have to like, yeah, I know. I did see the people, like in the group chat. It's like, what is this? You know? And I'm like, but what else?

[Nick]

What is she gonna do?

[Susie]

What else can she do? And like, what? Yeah, what?

[Nick]

The alternative is what Wes did, which is to not acknowledge what's going on and just like post he's at the final four, right? And then people, which I. With that.

[Susie]

I was going to say, which either way, like, I'm cool with. That's how I feel.

[Leia]

I'm like, they already gave us their statement.

[Susie]

They gave us their statement. If you want to just go live your life, I'm cool with that.

[Nick]

Don't say they're living it. They're hanging out at the bars in New York for everyone to see film, record videos. They are leaning the fuck in. They are. They're going for it.

[Susie]

They've got to.

[Justin]

I mean, Sierra said it herself, like, what's the next step after you do something like this?

[Susie]

You better get married. Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

Well, we'll definitely dive into that. We have Horace Gold joining us as well later this episode to dive into all things Bravo. We got some Temptation island to get into. Temptation island dropped on Friday. We are locked and loaded and watched all the episodes. We are excited to bring you a lot of Temptation island content. Can announce it all right here right now. But we do have Xavier joining the show later. Xavier was one of the tempters that had a very kind of like seductive and, you know, beautiful relationship with one of the couples with Sydney.

[Susie]

Spoiler alert.

[Mary]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin]

Just in case somebody has.

[Nick]

Oh, yeah. You know, if you haven't watched Temptation Island.

[Mary]

Yeah. Spoiler alert. He plays guitar so it was only a matter of time before she.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah. But he seems like a really great guy. We have a chance to talk with him today also. Just like a just jam packed week. Doing things a little different. This week we have Joey Fatone, member of nsync. I don't know why I don't need to say this to my audience. You guys all know who Joey Fatone is, but he is with us on Wednesday. It's just like us with Joey Unplugged. He's got an amazing documentary out. Just talking about just like the life of the boy bands in sync. Backstreet Boys got started. It's a fantastic doc, A lot of great insight. But he is with us to talk about his experiences in NSync. It was very nostalgic, a lot of fun. He is an absolute hoot. We got some time with Joey on Wednesday. It's just Joey. And then on Friday we got Paul Walter Hauser, one of my favorite actors out there in Hollywood today. I don't even know why he's sitting down with us, but he is. I think he's like the Philip Seymour Hoffman of our time. He's got a new movie with Mark Wahlberg coming out called Balls Up. It's a. It's a buddy comedy. You don't get to see a lot of those these days. But you know him from Blackbird. He was in I. Tonya, one of the best actors out there. He steals every scene. He's got such an incredible story. And he's with us. That's going to drop on Friday. Just us and Paul Walter Hauser. So you're going to get a lot of great content this week, so stay with us all week long.

[Justin]

Nick, if I could.

[Nick]

Mm.

[Justin]

I've been working here for a couple of years now, and I've never asked you any questions about your time on the Bachelor. Well, I have. No, no, I have. But I've never asked you about Sean Booth.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Justin]

And he did an interview recently, and he brought you up.

[Nick]

I saw that.

[Justin]

Did. And. And I just feel like few people

[Nick]

sent it to me.

[Justin]

Did they?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Well, I just need to know what you think about all of that, because I'm just.

[Leia]

Did you pay to be the Bachelor?

[Nick]

Is that what he said?

[Leia]

I think he said you would pay. How much would. He was like, there's people that would pay to be the Bachelor. And he said, maybe Nick File paid to be the Bachelor.

[Nick]

What I saw is, like. What I saw is him being asked if, like, the. If, like, does he, like, really hate me? Is, like, the rivalry real? And he was.

[Leia]

He said, yes.

[Justin]

He said it was real. He said that it was. That it was definitely, like, exaggerated on

[Nick]

tv, like, talked about, like, he was on the show. It was real, which was like, okay, yeah. But then, like, I kept. Then he kept, like, throwing a couple, like, strays.

[Justin]

Felt real.

[Nick]

It seems like he really did. Like, it still feels like it's still inside him, you know, like, that hatred. It's just. It's kind of fascinating how, you know reality TV like it is. That is your. I probably have spent less than three hours in his presence, and that was 12 years ago, and I haven't really seen him since.

[Leia]

I'm friends with his baby mama now. Me and his baby mama, and we get our kids together, and we go to the park and we hang out.

[Susie]

Wait, that's cute.

[Leia]

Yeah. So it's his, like, extra.

[Nick]

Interesting.

[Susie]

I think this sounds like the start of a new show.

[Justin]

It definitely. Like, there's no way he doesn't clock that.

[Leia]

No, I'm sure. But that's why I was like, even

[Nick]

like that would be less of a

[Leia]

stranger for to come for Nick right now, like knowing that kids are friends.

[Nick]

This was 12 years ago and like again like I knew a person and I got an opportunity to go on a TV show and I did and he met that same person prior to and like they had a thing and he was the front runner and I get it in that world, like we were pitted against each other. It kind of feels like he's never really let it go.

[Justin]

Well, have you guys, did you guys have any sort of like conversation after that season wrapped?

[Nick]

We did like a couple attempts where I tried to. We did like this fundraiser together. It never really seemed to land.

[Justin]

So he was always just like standoffish, like he wasn't willing to like have a converse like an actual conversation about things or like did you feel like you left off on like a good note with him or was when, when all of. When the season wrapped up 12 years ago.

[Nick]

No, I mean I was definitely the butt of their jokes for a long time. Yeah. Which I didn't really. I mean I moved on a long time ago. But again, like it seems like he really remembers me as that person he met on the show, you know, and still catching strays.

[Leia]

Still catching strays.

[Susie]

That's tough.

[Justin]

All these.

[Susie]

Actually it's not. It's actually not tough because I feel like the only person who. Yeah, I was gonna say the only person who's like throwing strays is probably the person who's losing sleep over. Yeah, exactly.

[Nick]

It is shocking just how speaking of

[Leia]

strays, Alex Cooper posted a video this morning, you guys on Tick Tock.

[Mary]

Wow.

[Leia]

It feels very out of character for Alex Cooper. Basically calling out Alex Earl being like, hey, these passive aggressive posts and likes and comments that you're doing are weird. Like just say what's going on? You didn't sign an NDA. Like what is this made up beef that we have? Let's talk about it.

[Justin]

So there is no NDA.

[Mary]

Cooper says according to her TikTok, usually

[Nick]

in those types of situations there isn't

[Leia]

an NDA when you sign someone to your.

[Nick]

It's more of like a non disparage clause. So like while they're in business they, you know, it would be like not cool for them to disparage each other. But like they're too public figures say usually public figures don't sign NDAs not to talk about each other. So the fact that they no longer work together It's. They're not. They're not employed with each other. So that non disparage clause is, my guess, is no longer in effect.

[Justin]

But didn't Alix Earl post something about how, like, she couldn't talk about these things?

[Nick]

And so, like, people say that all the time. I don't know the details.

[Leia]

I definitely would love. I mean, I would have loved if Alex Cooper in that said video would have just said it, said what was going on.

[Susie]

Didn't Alex kind of do the same

[Nick]

thing she's accusing Alex Earl of doing, which is.

[Leia]

It was just aggressive. It wasn't passive.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Leia]

But still, it was just her being like, hey, like, I talk about it.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Susie]

I honestly see both sides where I'm like, I kind of see where if Alex Earl feels like she was done dirty and she's just, like, doing little things, I'm like, shade, like, ooh, like, kind of shady. I don't know that I would have. I don't know that I would do it. But then I kind of love that Alex Cooper came out and was like, just. The only thing in the caption was just at Alix Earl, like, imagine Alex Earl's stomach is dropping to her ass this morning when she wakes up like she is.

[Nick]

So she probably woke up in bed next to Tom Brady.

[Leia]

But it is a weird time for Alex Cooper to be putting any sort of 100% spotlight on herself, given the fact that she just had someone who's been accused of physical assault, given that she has just had Dakota on her reality show where everyone seems to have a problem with. She has never once, like, said, addressed it. We have Vanderpump Villa, who's edited him

[Nick]

out, completely addressed it. I feel like she's led with it. Like, I've only seen clips of Dakota from that show, which tells me that they are very much promoting the fact that if you want to get some,

[Leia]

which to me feels like really icky, given the fact that what I've always loved about Alex Cooper is that she very like women, pro women, like, let's lift women up. She had Taylor Frankie Paul on her show. Then to have her alleged abuser on her, like, platform him and have him on her show feels a little hypocritical to me in just the sense of women. Yeah. You know, it feels like you care more about views and money and what, like, the attention of that reality show and less about, like, the right thing.

[Susie]

I also think, like, if. If people want to make the argument, oh, you know, these big networks can edit out X, Y and Z. I feel like then it's kind of like, well, you could just make a statement being like, hey, like, we're not a big network. We understand this is complicated, but we're going to do our best to move forward. And, like, Like, I would get that. But, yeah, I kind of agree with you where it's like, well, this is. You're making a statement about Alex Earl, but, like, you're not addressing anything else.

[Leia]

Anything else.

[Nick]

Do you think Alko responds? Do you think this is.

[Leia]

Do we think we get the story? We get a story. We get to get ready with me. Story time from Alex Earl.

[Nick]

I'm. I found out Earl I'm saving for my Netflix show.

[Mary]

Oh, yeah.

[Susie]

Oh, really?

[Nick]

She's got like a. Like a Netflix show?

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

With her family. They're probably filming right now.

[Susie]

Oh, maybe that's what this is about. Maybe she's just.

[Nick]

Why would Alex Cooper give her that kind of gold nugget of like, I mean, listen, like, you know, probably mutually beneficial. You know, everyone will be talking about them.

[Susie]

We're talking about them. Yeah.

[Nick]

People obviously take sides.

[Susie]

I love them both.

[Nick]

But Alex Cooper really gave Alex Earl a gift in terms of, like, content for her show. Content for her show. And so it's like it just organically. I just. I imagine more people are going to be prone to be more Alix Earle sided, rather just because, like, you know, people are always rooting for the underdog. And as big as Alex Earl is, I think Alex Cooper, like, people will see her as like, Alex Earl worked for Alex Cooper. Mm. So, like, it's just underdog. There's a lot of layers in terms of, like, people are. Are gonna be drawn to side with Alex Earl. I feel like.

[Leia]

Well, I guess we'll hear what the story is and then we'll know who to side with.

[Justin]

Yeah. We gotta have a squash the beef. Alex versus Alex and Nick versus Sean.

[Nick]

I heard long time ago had something to do with when they started their podcast. I'm hearing this secondhand. I'm hearing this. Hear a sign. But when Alex. When. When Alex Earl agreed to do her podcast with Unwell, there were some things that Alex Cooper promised she wouldn't err or expose or whatever. And it seemed like what I heard is that allegedly Alex did not honor that.

[Susie]

I heard that too.

[Nick]

Commitment.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

Yeah.

[Nick]

She broke a promise.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Of one that was never forgotten.

[Susie]

I could be wrong, but didn't Alex Earle's dad just basically, like, come out and say something similar to that? Like, I feel like the the shtick is like, just ask Alex Earl's dad, because he'll tell anybody.

[Nick]

Maybe I haven't found.

[Xavier]

I don't know.

[Nick]

I don't know who. Daddy.

[Susie]

Maybe we need to reach out. Yeah, I think he'll just tell us.

[Leia]

Let's just ask him for a statement.

[Susie]

Yeah, I think he would just tell us based on what I've heard. Great.

[Justin]

So great. Next. Going deeper. Papa Earl.

[Nick]

Yeah, Papa Earl. If you haven't checked out Vile Files plus, be sure to do it. It's ad free. All your favorite Vile Files episodes are AD free. Plus some amazing content. Like our reality recapped. You guys were laying. I really get into it. What was your point the other day on Plus?

[Justin]

I was just. Okay, so you were saying that Sierra.

[Nick]

I'm curious what you think I was saying.

[Susie]

This is.

[Justin]

This is what I think. You. You and Mary both were saying.

[Leia]

Okay.

[Justin]

That it was that Sierra going back wanting west was all ego driven this season.

[Mary]

To be clear, I said it was partly ego driven.

[Nick]

We didn't see that as a negative, to be clear because we all agreed that Amanda cares. We all agree that Sierra cared. Which as far as her friendship with Amanda, that's all that needs to happen. To expect Amanda to not do what she did if she cares about her friendship with Sierra. But we were discussing. Yeah. Why Sierra would still be interested in a guy like west.

[Justin]

And you and Mary were both saying that it was her ego. And I disagreed. I said, I think it has absolutely nothing to do with her ego. I think it has to do with her feelings. I think if anything, her ego would have.

[Nick]

And then I said, no, which feeling?

[Susie]

I like that.

[Justin]

I think it's, I think, feelings of love. Feelings, like strong feelings for West.

[Mary]

You can have feelings.

[Nick]

And by the way, can't your feelings be anger?

[Justin]

I also think sadness that you could think that you're in love with someone and then years later, in hindsight, 20 20, be like, oh, that wasn't love. What I'm in now is love. Right. Like, you can look back at your past relationships and be like, that wasn't love. Even though at the time you felt you were in.

[Nick]

Yeah, but isn't that the.

[Susie]

You guys are saying? It's.

[Leia]

It's.

[Susie]

It was mostly ego driven. Was what.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Susie]

She like why she was even interested

[Nick]

in entertaining west going back to that situation. That didn't seem to work out. We were just more relating to our experience of, like, you know, what's the thing that causes us to, like, be drawn to someone.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, infatuated have the hots, find them, whatever it is, and then be presented with like a red flag and we still pursue them and chase them and go after them and ignore, like, our friends and ignore the signals and

[Justin]

the heart wants what it was.

[Susie]

I have a thought. Could it be the not. Not ego, but the belief in someone's potential? Could it be that you see the light, you see the flashes of like, oh, my God, this person has all of these things here that I love

[Nick]

and they make me feel this to challenge that. But, like, what part? So when you're in that situation, doesn't that ego to assume that, like, you've been given the answer to the test, but you're assuming that the answer is wrong and you have a better answer? And is there any part when you're like, thinking they haven't reached their potential in that equation, Are you going to be part of the reason they can reach their potential?

[Justin]

Yeah, people change.

[Susie]

I think it depends also how, like, the definitions we're using to describe. Because I think sometimes, like, I've been in situations where I've seen somebody's potential and been like, I want to be with this person so bad, and if they love me enough, they'll change for me. And I think maybe that's what you're describing. Is that what you're describing?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Susie]

And I've. I think, yeah, there have been times where. Or I've been able to walk away and been like, they didn't love me enough to change. And then in hindsight, you're like, no, they don't have the skills or the capacity to become that person. They're not there yet. Even though you saw this potential. So I think it just. I mean, I don't know that we'll ever know, but I see what you're saying in the sense that, like, if that's where it was coming from, that she's like, oh, if he loves me enough. But I also think that sometimes you can just love somebody enough and be like, I'm giving you.

[Nick]

Where does the love come from, though?

[Justin]

It's just a feeling. Yeah, but you keep seeing someone. Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic. I don't know. There's just something that draws you to someone.

[Nick]

Recognize a feeling doesn't mean love. Right.

[Susie]

Actions. Right. Like, no, I don't think you could

[Nick]

realize it was lust or infatuation or

[Justin]

chemistry after the fact. I think in that moment.

[Nick]

So you think what's drawn Sierra to west over these past two years is some deep love?

[Susie]

I think it could Be some, like, destiny.

[Justin]

I think it's connection.

[Susie]

I think it's connection.

[Justin]

Yeah. I think there's something about him. There's something about him that she's drawn to and she wants to be with.

[Nick]

But what's the thing?

[Justin]

And I don't think it's.

[Nick]

When we're all adults outside of, like, maybe being our first love, what's the thing when we have that connection or chemistry that makes us, like, again, like, having. You had. Haven't you been drawn to people or had chemistry with people you've come to find out you hated or were bad for you or, you know, and I don't doubt that you were in them, but, like, love, like, were you able to build a strong emotional connection with them or.

[Susie]

Well, I have found there was, like, a term used, and I resonated with it so much, and I think probably that's what Sierra was doing this past season. And somebody once said, like, you have these feelings and then you have logic, and there comes a point where you have to insert choice. And I was like, oh, that's such a good way to describe it. Like, I have felt so strongly for somebody, but I'm like, I have to insert choice because if I let my feelings take over, like, I will stay in this cycle forever. Yeah.

[Nick]

It's easy to be like, I can't help my feelings.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Justin]

But hold on. He's giving it back to her this season. You know what I mean? Like, he.

[Susie]

He's pursuing her, reciprocating.

[Justin]

He's rubbing her back. He's. He's leading her.

[Nick]

Giving her, you know, to use the Gen Z terms, the breadcrumbs that keep someone invested, that seem like things, but in reality, when you look back, it's. It's enough to keep. But what's exactly, though.

[Justin]

No, but what I'm saying is, like, now we're looking at this through a different lens, right? Because we know what is going on currently. But, like, two weeks ago, I was rooting for Sierra and Wesley, and I was like, oh, he's into her. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, this is something, and I felt the spark.

[Nick]

But a drunken man. A drunken, like, leg rub is like. That's what I'm saying. It's just like. I just think in retrospect, she'll look back and go, that's not the type of. Of relationship or love that I'm looking for in retrospect.

[Susie]

Yeah, but it is. It's like, ultimately just breadcrumbing.

[Nick]

But in. But by retrospect, I mean, like, again, like taking. Removing yourself from a situation where you're not necessarily maybe thinking, like, your ego clouds your judgment or like your feelings cloud your judgment. Like, when we have feelings, it fucks up our ability to make a decision.

[Justin]

That's what I'm saying. It's feelings, not ego.

[Nick]

Feeling is.

[Justin]

I just don't think the ego has anything to do.

[Nick]

You're generalizing feelings to a point where it's eliminating any ability to have, like, ego is a feeling. Like love is a feeling. Anger is a feeling. Sadness is a feeling. You just. You're lumping feelings as if, like, I

[Susie]

guess the feelings that we're talking about is connection is like.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Susie]

The desire, the.

[Justin]

I don't think that it was her.

[Nick]

What caused the feeling is the question. Not. Not what was the feeling? And I think Mary and I suggest that maybe what caused the feeling.

[Mary]

I love to get pulled in.

[Nick]

Wasn't. Wasn't the fact that, like, she, like, destiny had a plan for Wes and Sierra.

[Justin]

You guys were saying that it was that. That he burned her in the past and she was coming back and being like, I'm going to win.

[Nick]

Sure. And the entire world was like, you're better than him. You deserve better than him. And the him that the world was saying that she's better than was was rejecting her.

[Susie]

Wait, this season, he was rejecting her?

[Justin]

No, two seasons.

[Nick]

I mean, he's always been rejecting her. Even this season when he was like, I don't want Sierra to get hurt.

[Susie]

Right. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was. But he was doing the breadcrumbing. So, like, to her face and making

[Nick]

it seem like it was hard to talk to. He was just like, oh, I don't know how to enter a room with Sierra. I'm nervous. You know, like, it was all a shtick.

[Susie]

The only way you win, talking about winning is you walk away. And look at her now.

[Leia]

That's what I had to do to Nick.

[Susie]

Look at that. And she's winning.

[Leia]

He was breadcrumbing.

[Justin]

So did I lose?

[Nick]

We really get into the weeds. We have a lot of fun doing it. And if you want to. If you can't get enough coverage, go check out Vile files. Plus, it's a two parter.

[Mary]

Two parter. Yeah.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Mary]

By the way, if you're listening to plus, this is just a quick thing and you're.

[Justin]

You.

[Mary]

You listen to the deep dive where we start talking about it and then you get to the pop episode where we're still talking about it. It does start it does start mid conversation. So just you're going to have to listen to part one.

[Nick]

Well, there's so much to get into regarding Wes and Amanda's love affair, relationship, whatever we're calling it now. And we have a great guys Horace Gold. I'm sure you've seen a lot of his great hilarious content covering your favorite reality TV and pop culture topics. And he is with us to break it all down next. This episode is brought to you by Better Help. There's all kind of stresses in our world from family stress, relationship stress, and even financial stress and whatever is going on in your life. If you're having a hard time just letting things go or things are weighing you down, maybe therapy is the answer for you. And we all know that therapy can be a challenge to start. It can be intimidating. It can be hard to find the right therapist. It can feel inconvenient and expensive. But better help is helping alleviate all those pain points. It's incredibly convenient. And they're working with over 30,000 therapists nationwide to help ensure that you're going to find a therapist that's right for you. That's so important when it comes to therapy is making sure that you feel comfortable and heard. And not every therapist is made equal. Not every therapist is made for you. But better help ensures that you're going to find someone that you feel comfortable. You can switch for free every time until you land on a therapist that's right for you. So whatever is going on in your life, if you need to get it off your chest, think of BetterHelp. It's really easy to get started. Just go to betterhelp.com, answer a few questions about what is weighing you down and what you want to talk about, and they will match you with a mental health professional in no time. So if it's something you've ever considered, thought about or just wondered about, just do yourself a favor. Check out BetterHelp. You'll be glad that you did. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10 off at betterhelp.com v I a l l that is betterhelp h e-l p.com v I

[Leia]

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[Nick]

How you doing buddy?

[Horace Gold]

I'm chilling. How you doing?

[Nick]

We're great. It's great to be with you.

[Horace Gold]

Thanks for having me guys.

[Nick]

We, we love you. Many of the people in this household have enjoyed your content. Content online.

[Horace Gold]

It means a lot.

[Leia]

Did you go to Coachella this weekend?

[Horace Gold]

I did not go to Coachella.

[Leia]

Did you have fomo?

[Horace Gold]

I don't have FOMO with Coachella. I don't. It's like I don't care ultimately and it's I think like I'm so about like a music festival really being about the music and Coachella does not give me that.

[Nick]

You've been.

[Horace Gold]

No, I like have this really. I also have a resentment against Coachella because When I was 18 I tried to buy tickets. Tickets and they charged my card three times but didn't give me the tickets.

[Nick]

Oh, my God.

[Horace Gold]

And I was like, hey. So, like, you charged it three times. And they were like, sorry, diva. And I was like, what? What do you. What do you mean?

[Susie]

No, what do you mean?

[Horace Gold]

Run me My. Like, we're like, I want to go. And so I think the Black Keys were playing that year too, so I was really upset because I really wanted to see that. So ever since then, I've been like, coachella's fake. Coachella's out.

[Leia]

Well, everyone is having kind of same scams.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Susie]

There's so many scam stories this year,

[Horace Gold]

and I think it's like, there are so many amazing music festivals. I love Austin City Limits, and I will be there this year just because I think, like, it being actually about the music and the vibe and the people. Like, going to a show is like, kind of a spiritual experience, you know? Like, I think it's like. So it's like such this, like, beautiful human experience, like, come together and, like, be on, like, one wavelength. And I feel like it's, like, not prioritized.

[Nick]

Well, my first Coachella experience, I learned the hard way that if you don't go with a plan right. In Clear Expectations, you will chase fun all weekend and feel fomo. Because no matter where you're going, everyone's asking where you're supposed to be.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So you're going to that party. You're going to this party, right? You're gonna go see this person, right?

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Susie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nick]

You lose friends, and then you're just, like, bouncing from constant. You can see seven shows without seeing any shows.

[Mary]

I would just sit at Slater and enjoy my life.

[Nick]

Clock it.

[Horace Gold]

I. Addison, I wish I'd seen that, because I saw her show twice, and it was. I watched. That was the only one that I was like, that looked really good.

[Nick]

Well, before we get into all the summer house drama between Amanda and Wes, what is your favorite thing going on on the Internet today that is capturing your attention?

[Horace Gold]

There's so much going on. I really currently am very obsessed with the idea of clavicular just as a entity. The looks maxer because I'm like, baby, you're gay.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

Gay.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

I think it is an inherently homosexual concept to be concerned with the opinions of other men on how you look like. And that being the entirety of your personality is homosexual behavior.

[Nick]

Why is he getting. He's getting, like, 60 minute interviews, like,

[Horace Gold]

and, like, walked out. It was really wild. Wild. So, like, that's my current, like, hyper fixation. But as far as reality TV goes, I am a Rhode island truther yeah.

[Nick]

You're locked into Rhode Island.

[Horace Gold]

Locked.

[Nick]

But he is not good.

[Horace Gold]

Yeah, but he is like, I live for her. I live for the entire cast. I think it's so good. And I also think. I didn't know. I've been to Rhode island, but I didn't know anything about Rhode Island.

[Susie]

Prior culture.

[Horace Gold]

Yes.

[Susie]

It's totally different.

[Horace Gold]

Did not know it was an ocean, like. Like the ocean state. And I was like, oh, there's. There's water there. The whole thing's an island.

[Susie]

You guys eat seafood here.

[Horace Gold]

Exactly.

[Nick]

It's not landlocked, Literally.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Is that the island part of the name was just like.

[Horace Gold]

No, just for, like.

[Susie]

Yeah. Like, just cute. Yeah.

[Leia]

It just went cute with Rose.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Leia]

It's our next baby's name.

[Horace Gold]

Exactly.

[Nick]

Are you a Salt Lake City yes. Fan?

[Horace Gold]

Yes.

[Nick]

And do you feel like Rhode island has a chance to compete? Because I feel like they're similar in the kind of. It's a little looser, a little more shenanigans. A younger cast seems to be willing to go there. Go there. Be a little messy. Or do you feel like it's too early to compare?

[Horace Gold]

I am not a Housewives scholar.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Horace Gold]

But what I will say is that I do think Salt Lake is a particular anomaly of lightning in a bottle that cannot be completely replicated. I don't think we will ever have a Monica Garcia ever again. We owe that woman everything forever.

[Nick]

And her mom.

[Horace Gold]

And her mom. I want her to, like, have a house purchased by the government. Like, I want her to have a rebate, like, every single year. We, as a society really need to come together and, like, support Monica Gracie. She deserves everything. Like, thank her for her service. So I don't know that there's another franchise that could emulate and really be on that level of, like, what am I actually watching right now? But I do think that. That there is a. I think that the caveat to Rhode island that makes it really specific and really beautiful is that they, like, actually know each other and, like, didn't meet through the show and then have to almost, like, force this, like, drama and force these, like, misunderstandings. It's like, no, there's, like, beef and tea and, like, decades long stuff going on here. And, like, that, to me, is really fascinating. And I love their accents.

[Susie]

The accents are so good.

[Nick]

Accents. Does Ashley have an accent?

[Mary]

No, she's not from Ro.

[Susie]

She's from Virginia.

[Mary]

Yeah, she's. She's our little audience pov.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Ashley is a old friend of ours.

[Horace Gold]

Great.

[Nick]

So great.

[Horace Gold]

I Want to go to their coffee shop. I want to check it out.

[Nick]

I want to support.

[Horace Gold]

They're struggling. Let's all go.

[Susie]

I know.

[Horace Gold]

Makes me sad.

[Susie]

And it's a cool coffee shop. They like bring in people to experience.

[Leia]

Like her saying that it was the second.

[Susie]

Second. Yeah, the second after Bon Jovi.

[Horace Gold]

What does that mean me? Like, how do you. What is the metric?

[Leia]

Celebrity owned restaurant business?

[Mary]

Something. Let me double check.

[Leia]

After Bon Jovi.

[Horace Gold]

No.

[Nick]

Like no in the.

[Susie]

No in generally.

[Leia]

Yep. In the country.

[Horace Gold]

But I don't know what that.

[Nick]

So what is. What is it second most? What?

[Mary]

It's the second rated celebrity owned restaurant in the United States. Second rated celebrity by whom? Restaurant in the United States. It's Bon Jovi being number one.

[Nick]

So it's critically acclaimed. So it's like it's rotten tomato score is like 98% by the critics. It's a beautiful coffee shop. If you're in the area, you should check it out. They serve great coffee.

[Mary]

Truly. Truly. The quote I can find from it about it is her saying it on the show.

[Leia]

So we should ask Ashley where she got that information. Let me see. What is Bon Jovi? What is that location?

[Mary]

Like jbj Soul Kitchen.

[Susie]

Jbj, where is it?

[Mary]

New Jersey.

[Horace Gold]

Okay. Northeast.

[Mary]

Can I imagine? Maybe it's the thought. Maybe it's the metrics, because. Right. You have Bon Jovi in Jersey. Bon Jovi is essentially. Jesus Christ.

[Horace Gold]

Someone could say Bon Jersey.

[Mary]

Bon Jersey, Yeah. And it's like, so obviously it's going to be popular specifically in Jersey, within the Tri State area.

[Susie]

Right.

[Mary]

Then you go to Rhode Island. Obviously. Jared is a huge Rhode island guy. Rhode island, obviously. We have seen from the show, tight community cares about their people.

[Leia]

So they're going to support Gia Giudices. Italian restaurant is going to come for Josie, come for jbj, come for jbj Soul Kitchen. Like, do we feel like maybe there's some competition heading to the Jersey area?

[Mary]

Well, okay. JBG Soul Kitchen is a non profit community restaurant established by the Jon Bon Jovi Soul Foundation.

[Horace Gold]

Love the soul. There's a lot of emphasis on soul here.

[Nick]

I know.

[Horace Gold]

I'm still confused on how she came to determine that she was the second best.

[Leia]

I feel like maybe Ashley did the research herself and was like, what are all of these celebrity owned restaurants and cafes rated? And then she's like, oh, Audrey's is the second best.

[Susie]

So then she was just like, we are. We are second best.

[Leia]

We should ask.

[Nick]

But on the, on the show, their

[Horace Gold]

storyline, it's struggling it's not doing that well.

[Susie]

How long have they had it though?

[Nick]

A while now. And it's like, it's Jared's like, you

[Susie]

know, I'm pretty sure like when you open a restaurant or a business, like, statistically it takes like three to five years to even like, like not even make a profit. Like people say it's like three to five years. You're truly just in.

[Nick]

Yeah. And that's the thing about like Jared. He, he like, he chose that life where like, you know, he's, you know, been lucky to do other things and you know, has a social media following, but he chose to like, choose the hardest thing. Choose the hardest thing.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And. And it's like, it's his passion. And he was working 6, 15, 16 hour days.

[Horace Gold]

She's at a hundred hours a week.

[Leia]

Because it's like, I'm sure it does so much better when he's there serving drinks. When he's not there, people come in.

[Nick]

I think he's there at like five in the morning and he's getting home at like nine at night.

[Mary]

Okay. I did find, I did find the list that does rate it as number two, which is Love food dot com.

[Horace Gold]

Love food, Very Love food dot com

[Mary]

says it's number one. John Bon Jovi, jbj, Soul Kitchen. Number two. Ashley Kennedi and Jared Haben. Audrey's Coffee house and lounge. Number three. Nicholas Braun, Ray's Pebble Bar. S. P. J. Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

Where is Goop Kitchen?

[Susie]

Yeah, sorry.

[Mary]

Wait a minute.

[Susie]

Where's go.

[Mary]

Norman Reedus? Nick and Norman's from Walking Dead is number four.

[Leia]

Where's Paula Dane? What number?

[Mary]

I mean, Michael Jordan Steakhouse Number 7.

[Horace Gold]

These all sound like money laundering schemes.

[Mary]

Zach Bra's Mermaid Oyster Bar is number nine.

[Nick]

I. Zach Bra has a Mermaid Oyster bar.

[Susie]

I love scrubs.

[Mary]

Bra is a partner in Mermaid Oyster Bar, a high end seafood restaurant with coastal vibes in Greenwich.

[Horace Gold]

So that's interesting. I feel like that's a very like broad stroke categorization of like who gets to claim because it's like partner is very different than owner.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

You know, and so true.

[Mary]

Like, yeah, like Jared's serving the coffee, right?

[Horace Gold]

Like that feels like he's opening up the shop.

[Nick]

Zach Braff probably has not eaten at

[Horace Gold]

500, has never been there to worry about. He has a call time at 7

[Nick]

in the morning tomorrow.

[Susie]

What are you talking about?

[Nick]

All right, Summer House. You're watching Summer House.

[Horace Gold]

I am keeping up to date with the Summer House drama. I'm gonna be really honest. I tried to Watch it. And I was like, I need more gay people.

[Mary]

Southern hospitality.

[Horace Gold]

That's where I'm going next. What I will say is that there is a lot of people who, like me, are, like, new to knowing about Summer House and are like, west, like, this guy. I'm not gonna lie to you. It would work on me as well.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Would it work on you?

[Horace Gold]

Yeah, it would. West is hot. West has the swag.

[Susie]

He is the it factor.

[Leia]

He has, like, a charismatic. Like, you just have to talk to him. He has to open his mouth. Like, I. You can't. I don't see him in a grocery store. I don't see him at a bar. And I'm like, give it to me. I like you hair.

[Susie]

You see him on the dance floor. You know what I mean?

[Horace Gold]

But I will say I've seen photos of him, and then I watched him work.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

And the juice.

[Nick]

The juice, really?

[Horace Gold]

It's the vibe, which I think is actually an interesting parallel to the like. Like, clavicular world, where I'm like, you can do all the looks maxing, all the jaw smashing that you want to do, but if you have the personality of a piece of sandpaper, I am not touching you.

[Nick]

Well, also, correct me if I'm wrong, ladies, but I think you guys like the idea of a guy who effortlessly can talk to women or, like, has success with girls, as opposed to the guys who are, like, thinking they have to go out and, like, put a hammer to their cheekbones.

[Susie]

Oh, yeah, that would. I mean, that gives me.

[Leia]

I'm scared.

[Susie]

Yeah, I'm terrified.

[Nick]

You don't, like, it's not attractive to know a guy spends more time getting ready than you. Right. Like, that's an ick for sure. Yeah. Although Wes does put a lot of effort into those outfits. Like, he is definitely.

[Leia]

He does not. Does he put a lot of effort into his hair? Because I feel like his hair, majority of the time, you're like, no, I can't tell.

[Nick]

I think he puts a lot. I think he's putting a lot of effort.

[Mary]

I think he's spent, like, 600 on his haircut so he would not have to put effort in. And it kind of looks like he didn't, but did. And you have the question.

[Horace Gold]

I'm also really attracted to, like, platonically, friendship wise. I'm really attracted to, like, a straight guy who's like, oh, my God, you're so cute. Like, to his, like, friend, like, straight. Like, there's something about that security. But I'm like, that's so attractive. Like, that's so, like.

[Leia]

Like, him being able to go. KJ Being like, do you want to talk about your anxiety having that, like, softer side? Yeah, totally. I will like him and Amanda going out in public. I will say her statement being like,

[Horace Gold]

guys, I gotta go to work.

[Leia]

I gotta go. I gotta leave my house.

[Horace Gold]

Right.

[Leia]

Mental health declining. No, I was like, honestly here for it.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Leia]

The only thing that was weird about it was her trying to, like, cover her head with a scarf.

[Susie]

Yeah. That was. That was just be you babes.

[Nick]

It's like, we know it's you. Like, she has a scarf. She has the sunglasses, but she's out with West.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

Right.

[Nick]

It's like, you didn't bring your scarf. You're like, where's your hoodie?

[Mary]

She's also out in, like, New York City, where even Zo Run Momdani has commented on west and Amanda. Like, girl, the scarf is not hiding you.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

I am definitely of the mind, though, that, like, I don't know. This is a hot, hot take. Cheating is a bad thing to do. And not even.

[Nick]

They didn't cheat there was.

[Horace Gold]

Right.

[Xavier]

Right.

[Horace Gold]

But like, that we know the, like, the relationship indiscretions, I should say as a general. General blank.

[Nick]

It.

[Horace Gold]

Sure. They are, like, socially disruptive things to do. Do I think that you don't deserve a job and, like, a normal, like, style of living? No, I'm sorry. Like, we are not, like, taking these people to the stocks because she, like, got with her friend's ex.

[Leia]

She did not commit a crime.

[Horace Gold]

There's. This is legal. I'm sorry. It is legal to be an sorry.

[Susie]

I will say I. I seen a lot of people give the take. Mandy, you could have had anybody. Like, you could have had anybody, and you chose West. And I do understand that to an extent, but I also think being in this world, like, I have maybe seemingly have access to people and men, I find it really hard to find someone to date in my position. And she's in an even, you know, like a bigger platform, more followers, more unique situation. I don't think it's as easy as everyone makes it sound to just find somebody else to date.

[Nick]

How many dating apps are you on?

[Susie]

None right now.

[Nick]

And. And what's part of the reason why? Because, like, you're probably pretty nervous of, like, going on hinge and.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Hi. I'm Susie Evans.

[Susie]

Screenshot it or, like, made fun of or, like, it's. Or people looking you up or whatever. But that being said, I understand. Like, sure. Like, she probably shouldn't have gone for Wes. But I also think we talked about this a few weeks ago where I'm like, he was a good friend to her on the show and yes, she was in a relationship during that time, but like, maybe she had a soft spot for him. And then when they both were technically single, like, yes, it's like, like you said, it's a faux pas. And it's not. It's disruptive and it's maybe horrible. I don't know. But at the same time, I feel empathetic towards her because I'm like, this was a shoulder to cry on.

[Nick]

He made her feel safe.

[Leia]

I know.

[Nick]

He was like, it was probably very scary for her to date. She probably felt super alone.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And he was there.

[Susie]

And I'm not saying that that takes away from Sierra's experience at all because.

[Nick]

No, yeah, Amanda's definitely a bad friend to Sierra.

[Susie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Leia]

I think, I mean, I definitely think west is more the villain.

[Nick]

100%.

[Leia]

He was like level headed. He was like sober making these decisions.

[Susie]

Right.

[Leia]

Amanda was like drunk on divorce and grief and like being treated like absolute shit for the last 10 years.

[Nick]

Terrified. What's it gonna like to date for the first time in 10 years as a public figure with a following and a bunch of expectations, which like, like, doesn't excuse it.

[Leia]

She definitely deserves to like lose that friendship with Sierra. I hope that they can maybe rebuild it in the future, take some time apart, whatever. But like, west knew what he was doing. He knew he was hanging out with his ex's best friend. He knew he was hanging out with his best friend Kyle's ex wife and like building some sort of relationship there. Like you knew what you were doing. You 100% had this like, like level headed energy. So I feel like he's definitely the.

[Susie]

I know the culprit of.

[Leia]

Yeah. Like, but no one's gonna hold him to any sort of standard. They're gonna just like make call, Amanda, pick me.

[Horace Gold]

I definitely think it's weirder of West. I agree with that because I think it's like a. I think it's a weirder betrayal to Kyle. Like, it's like that's like one it post marriage. It's different than like no shade, but like a situationship. Like it's not the same thing, but it's like that's your homie's ex wife dog. Like that's, that's crossing a different border. But I do have a question of a hypothetical, like keeping it just Sierra and West. Like, what is the Statute of limitations on like dating your friends.

[Susie]

Yeah, ex.

[Horace Gold]

Like, and how forever is forever.

[Mary]

I mean I think it depends if

[Nick]

your friend we discussed at length of like whether like why should Sierra care or you know, should she like a guy like west and that. That's a whole different discussion about like we've kind of chased the wrong people before. But I think you still have the right to be like, I don't know. Yeah, they're bad for me. But to not want any of your friends to ever fuck with them ever. Forever.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Susie]

Right. I mean I think also it's less of Sierra wanting West and more of her being like this person hurt me so bad. And now you're, why would you. Yeah, yeah. And now I have to, to sit here with this and watch him treat you better than he ever treated me and be there for you in a way he wasn't there for me. Like that's what I feel like it's more about than her being like I wanted him and like I wish he was. You know, it's just like, damn, this is like the knife is in my heart and now y' all are turning it. That's how I see it.

[Mary]

And it's also like Amanda was there and there for Ciara while this was all going down with Wes. So it's like you watched what he did to me and you're still going for it. Which I think that's what. Damn. It's so, but yeah.

[Leia]

Complex.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

And mind you, I ended a friendship one time because a friend invited my ex boyfriend and I to the same party.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

That was enough.

[Nick]

That was enough.

[Horace Gold]

That was enough.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

We'd been friends for like eight years and this was like the love of my life. We wrote and I was like why am I saying his name on a particle? What's going on with that?

[Susie]

Did you make a tick tock about this?

[Horace Gold]

Yeah. I want to be like free love. Like everyone we can all share like who owns another.

[Susie]

No make out with anyone.

[Mary]

Yeah. And then you do and you're like

[Nick]

from, from, from a friendship standpoint. Like you know again Sierra's talking about loyalty over the weekend. Like if you're Sierra, there's just no world where you can ever just know that like in any given situation that Amanda's going to have your back.

[Horace Gold]

Right.

[Nick]

You know, as when you get into adulthood. To me like I, I now I talk about this all the time. Like you have your friends but like that to me it's like people you can hang out with and are a good time Or a cool hang, and they're entertaining, and it's, like, good to see you. And then you have your people who are like, in adult life, you're like, this is. I need this person. My life, you know? And if you're not married or you don't have, like, a romantic partner, like, you know, you have a couple people. And if Amanda was ever that person to Sierra, I don't think she can never be that person, because Amanda made it very clear that, like, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what Sierra cares about. Amanda's gonna. She's gonna do what she wants to do. And, like, it shouldn't been. It shouldn't have been that hard for Amanda. Been, like, I just. I can't go there.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And for whatever reason, she was able to, like, convince herself. And it was probably West. It was probably like, hey, listen, Sarah cares about whatever. She cares about everything. Or what? Downplay it. It's not a big deal.

[Leia]

Oh, 100%. Wes was in her ear being like, I, I, I.

[Nick]

We never really dated. Like, whatever.

[Leia]

I also feel like he was like. Like, we shouldn't tell. You know, like, let's not tell her.

[Mary]

Let's, like, you know, it'll hurt her feelings.

[Leia]

It would hurt her. Feel like she probably wouldn't, like, be your friend anymore. Like, we just shouldn't tell her. Let's just keep it on the DL.

[Susie]

Like, he did that to me. That is the biggest sin of it all. If he convinced her to keep quiet. Like, I have been in that position. Not in that position, but I've been in a position where a guy's been like, I don't want to, like, make this big thing or whatever. And then it comes across as, like. Like, shady. And you're like, I wanted to tell the whole time. I wanted to be transparent. I wanted, you know, I wanted to be forthcoming.

[Leia]

Scared me.

[Susie]

And you think, yeah. And I listened to you. Like, I'm trusting you with so many other aspects, and I took your advice on this, and now I'm the one getting heat. If he convinced her to be quiet, which we don't know, but if he did, that is, like, which.

[Horace Gold]

I'm sorry. Also, how old are we? We are all adults. Like, I. You cannot convince me at a certain age to do something that I'm, like, uncomfortable doing, especially in a friendship that means so much to me, like, 100%. I think we have to, like, also be like, she was not, like, chloroformed.

[Nick]

And I think both things can be true. Like, you can. You can say, amanda, not a great friend.

[Horace Gold]

Right.

[Nick]

And then you can. I think you can still have empathy for, like, understanding where Amanda was coming from. Not that you. Not that it still. You know, she was a bad friend, but it's more like. I think that's what we're all kind of saying. It's just like west was like, you know. Yeah. A mannequin of any guy she wants, but it's. It's. It's a lot difficult to own practice. West for everything we know, had. Had been kind of hooking up with any woman he wanted to and wasn't having a hard time meeting people and

[Leia]

was allegedly exclusive with, like, some other women.

[Nick]

He wasn't just getting started in the dating world. It was this, like. But why this person?

[Mary]

I. Horace, I have a question for you.

[Horace Gold]

Hit me.

[Mary]

So you're. You know, I've been wanting to pose this question for so long, and finally there's someone.

[Horace Gold]

Let's go.

[Mary]

West Wilson and Sophie Cunningham's podcast.

[Leia]

I feel like that was the original.

[Horace Gold]

That was the. That was the last thing I was expecting you to bring up. I went to Phoenix for the women's final four, and Sophie Cunningham, her face is the first thing you see when

[Leia]

you look at in the airport.

[Horace Gold]

Yes.

[Mary]

Yes.

[Horace Gold]

And it was a jump scare then, and it's a jump scare now. I blacked out.

[Nick]

What. What about.

[Horace Gold]

She scared the out. So their podcast. Yeah, I avoid it. Is. Is that.

[Mary]

Yeah, I mean, me too. I just feel like that is the first thing.

[Nick]

Is she like, the. A villain in the wnba?

[Susie]

Yes.

[Horace Gold]

Yes, yes. Trigger.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

Mary.

[Nick]

Mary's convinced we're missing out on the wnba.

[Horace Gold]

Oh, you are the wnba. Like, if you love sports, awesome. If you love hot mess, tea drama lore, it's the best reality. So, like, when you ask, what are you watching? I'm watching the wnba. Like, draft updates. Because there's so much tea going on around.

[Mary]

Is easy gonna play with Paige. Becker's her girlfriend.

[Horace Gold]

Do we still know if Az and Paige are still dating?

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Nick]

That's so true.

[Mary]

That's the real tea.

[Horace Gold]

Let me break it down for you really quickly, just to give you, like, a. Just a little teaser of what it's like. There is a player named Dijonay Carrington. There's a player named Jackie Young. There's a player named Melissa Smith. Nalissa and Dijonay played together in college. They were dating. They broke up. They got back together after a very viral clip of Dijonay falling on the ground and Alyssa picking her up. By the small of her waist. And we all went, oh, that's hot. Ooh, I'm turned on. They got back together. They broke up in a fiery rage. Melissa was traded to Jackie Young's team, the Las Vegas Aces. Melissa and Dijonay broke up. Whatever. Whatever. They hate each other. Dijonay and Jackie Young are now dating. Melissa and Jackie are teammates. Dijonay is dating her, her girlfriend's teammate.

[Susie]

Oh, no.

[Horace Gold]

It's all hot. Like, it's all.

[Mary]

It's summer house.

[Horace Gold]

It's literally. And they all play basketball, so it's like. That's the level of, like, mess that we're talking about, where it's like, you. It's. It is literally sports and drama. Yes. West Sierra, Amanda. But they're lesbians.

[Nick]

But they have to run a plan.

[Horace Gold]

We have to win the title.

[Mary]

And one.

[Horace Gold]

And one. Exactly. So I. I live for. For the drama in the wnba. It's the best. But also they're like the. It's just the. They're. They're incredible athletes as well, but it's with a side of mess.

[Nick]

Are any of them going through a divorce while. While sharing custody of a child?

[Horace Gold]

That did happen. It did, yeah. So I believe it was Alyssa Thomas, but I could be wrong with this. But so, long story short, yes, that has happened. And now she married. She's engaged to her teammate as well.

[Nick]

Because right now in the Valley, we have Jesse Michelle going through a divorce, sharing a child together. We have Rachel Zoe, who's on her first season of Beverly Hills. Her big storyline has been talking about her divorce.

[Xavier]

And.

[Nick]

And they have two kids together. And apparently he's got a girlfriend of

[Horace Gold]

two years, but they've only been divorced for a year.

[Nick]

Unclear. I don't know about that timeline, but

[Leia]

no, I thought she did say they'd been together for two years.

[Horace Gold]

And then I was, like, looking into it, and I was like, y' all got divorced last year.

[Nick]

Well. Well, maybe when. That's when the bagels.

[Horace Gold]

The. The overlap is still.

[Leia]

Whatever.

[Nick]

Well, when you're watching the show. When you're watching the show, like, you know, you're just getting Rachel's POV pov. And her POV is like, my ex husband's a piece of shit.

[Xavier]

And.

[Nick]

And. And he is forcing his new girlfriend ont children in a way that we're all like.

[Leia]

And kind of doing scenes with her kids of like, you're uncomfortable when she's around, and they're like, yeah, we don't want her to pick us up from camp.

[Nick]

Well, yeah, and so recently, the new girlfriend has decided that she is. She is done not, you know, taking. Taking the punches, catching strays. She's done being silent. So she is speaking up. And I'm like, so fascinated by this.

[Horace Gold]

I'm sorry, Like. Like forced is such a. No, no. You decided to enter into a relationship with a man whose ex wife is high profile. You knew what you were getting into. Okay, this was a possibility. Sitting here and being like, I'm the victim, I must speak up. It's like, no, the. You do. You don't actually have to.

[Nick]

So you knew. She. She knew what she was getting into. She knew.

[Horace Gold]

What was the timeline diva? Where. How soon was he divorced from this man when you got with him?

[Mary]

All right, I don't know the. The timeline of when he got with her post divorce, but this is what she shared on her Instagram story.

[Justin]

The.

[Mary]

The image is a picture of Rachel Zo on Beverly Hills talking about her. Since so many of my friends reached out, I wanted to set the record. She didn't say straight, but I imagine she said, set the record straight. One, my birthday is September 2nd, one day after hers, not three.

[Susie]

Two.

[Horace Gold]

We were all.

[Susie]

Just to be clear.

[Leia]

Two, stress.

[Nick]

That was the first thing I was.

[Horace Gold]

Thank you for bringing it up.

[Mary]

We have been dating for almost two years. Three, I'm actually a businesswoman who happens to style, not a celebrity stylist. But you do you girl respect.

[Nick]

See, that's not the thing that she wants to do.

[Mary]

She's not done. 4. Leave me the fuck alone. And then after that. 5, what's so insane you did not want to be married and said it yourself. You wish you left seven years ago. You're acting like a jealous woman. Get a new storyline. I'm not going anywhere, so get used to it.

[Susie]

I'm not going anywhere.

[Leia]

Leave me the fuck alone.

[Susie]

She pays, number one. And maybe she should have sent it to her.

[Horace Gold]

Well, that's what I'm saying. Don't sit.

[Susie]

Yeah, she's inserting herself.

[Horace Gold]

You don't want to be a part of the narrative and then like, put yourself in the middle of it.

[Leia]

So many of my friends have checked on me, which I think I'm gonna make a public statement instead of just texting them back.

[Horace Gold]

Right, and is that friends like or is this like, is she one of those people who calls her followers? Hi, friends. Like, I couldn't tell where that was coming from. Yeah, and also the reason that I don't like this woman. No shade. She misspelled relevant. I read that statement.

[Nick]

Earlier and I jumped.

[Horace Gold]

She's stupid. And I don't associate.

[Leia]

My birthday is actually one day after hers.

[Horace Gold]

I mean, if you think about it, it was really giving a pretty wild. Nancy Jo, this is Alexis Neiers and I will let you know. You said that I was wearing a 4 inch kitten heel and it was not like, these are some nails. Like, these semantics are not actually relevant spelled correctly to anyone in the world that I'm like, you putting yourself in the middle of this is like, I think that you as the og, as the, the original wife, the mother, all that you have carte blanche in perpetuity. Talk your shit forever, diva. Like, you are able to have whatever emotional experience you want. And when you were coming in as the second string sports reference, you, you need to know your place and understand that there is a whole world, there's a whole ecosystem that is built without you in it and will thrive without you in it.

[Leia]

And be normal and talk your shit with your girlfriends at drinks and at dinner and be like, this stupid bitch is on a reality show talking shit about me. Don't put it on your story like everyone does.

[Nick]

That's what I was thinking of. I mean, think about all our toxic relationships and our, you know, if you had a relationship in your 18, 19, 20.

[Horace Gold]

Yes.

[Nick]

Some of the crazy shit we did when that relationship went bad.

[Susie]

Yes. Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, the retweets, whatever it was, or just, just how we interacted with them if we ran into them and they're dating someone else. Now imagine to Horus's point, building a whole life with this person.

[Horace Gold]

Right.

[Nick]

Having kids together, building a family, and then it doesn't work out and then you. And then they start dating someone new and that new person's hanging out with your kid. Your kids, people that have your DNA and they are like being parented by your, your ex's fling.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I, and I.

[Leia]

And if you're a business woman, if

[Nick]

you're the other, if you're the fling, I, I hear you, but like, I just like.

[Susie]

Yeah, I was gonna say I hear the fling too, though. I, I. Devil's advocate. I'm like, somebody's got to do.

[Mary]

They were together for two years. They've been together for two years.

[Nick]

People are allowed to date. But I'm just saying, from, from Rachel's standpoint.

[Mary]

Oh, yeah.

[Nick]

I just like whatever she wants to do.

[Susie]

And I, I think I would be the same way. But I also am like, like some. It's somebody's job to come in here and date this man. And like, she's doing it. And also, devil's advocate, maybe she doesn't need one. Maybe. Yeah, she doesn't need one. Maybe she's not actually trying to get out of the spotlight. Maybe this is her call to say, put me in. You know what I mean? And, like, and that's. And here's the thing. But she couldn't say, put me in. She has to go about and saying, leave me out of this. Let me make a statement. And like, I don't blame her. You know, maybe she wants a little attention out of this. And she's like, if I'm. If I'm getting drawn into this, then, like, let me just capitalize. But, like, you have to play the victim card to do that. Like, she couldn't just.

[Horace Gold]

But don't piss on my face and tell me it's Gatorade, right?

[Susie]

That's what she's doing. That's what she's doing.

[Horace Gold]

Be sincere about your intentions here. And like, if you actually wanted to mend the relationship and solve and heal and really have this. She said, I wanted a modern family, but Rachel didn't.

[Nick]

Or whatever.

[Horace Gold]

It was in the same.

[Nick]

Honestly, if I'm Rachel, I really hate her now.

[Horace Gold]

After that statement, I'm like, okay, I

[Nick]

had a modern family, but you didn't. No, we're not a family.

[Horace Gold]

But if that was your intention, then, like, the very last thing on the list to do in pursuit of that is an Instagram story with the word relevant misspelled. Like, I think you don't have conflict resolution skills and you're dumb. Like, no, I think, like that. I think it's so transparent. And I also think it's really to be significantly younger than both of them as well. Because she's 36. I assume Rachel's ex is like, a similar age range to her. Like, you're coming in as this, like, 36 year old woman to this, like, again, this ecosystem that is existing. Like, to be like, I'm gonna be here forever. It really gives. Like, you don't understand the nature of the arrangement because, like, what will be forever is that she will forever be the mother of his children. We've already seen that. This man is not against a divorce. So saying that you're gonna be around for a long time, like, girl, there is actually no guarantee that that's true. But what is true true is that they are genetically and forever bonded to one another. So you will always be outside of that fray. Do not poke the bear diva, because, like, if it's gonna happen. He's gonna pick his the mother of his children.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Even if he doesn't want to.

[Horace Gold]

Even if he doesn't want to, he legally has to. Because of that bound by the state and God's America to pick Rachel's up.

[Nick]

This has been so much. Did you watch Temptation? Do you want to stick around and talk about it?

[Susie]

You binge.

[Nick]

So let's why don't you stick around and interview Xavier?

[Horace Gold]

Can I can I pee? Yeah.

[Nick]

All right.

[Xavier]

He's here.

[Nick]

Xavier. He's going to be on via.

[Horace Gold]

He's joining us remotely way I live.

[Nick]

Well, we have Xavier up next, so why don't we get to Xavier. Horses got to pee. And then we'll bring on sexy guitar playing Xavier.

[Horace Gold]

Best day of my life.

[Nick]

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[Nick]

Xavier, welcome to the show.

[Xavier]

I appreciate you guys having me. Thank you. Thank you.

[Nick]

We're excited to have you. It's a fun. It was a fun season to watch. We're really excited to hear about your story. But I am just curious in general, how does someone like yourself, who honestly seems like great boyfriend material, such a gentle soul. Yeah.

[Leia]

Just like tempter.

[Nick]

How'd you end up being a tempter? A guy who's supposed to be, you know, like, stealing. Stealing another guy's girl? How did that come come to be?

[Xavier]

Man, let me tell you. I was asking myself the same question. I was like, do they know I'm just a regular engineer type of guy? But I don't know. I think my approach, like, I wasn't even going in there with the intent or even, like, the follow through of, like, stealing. It was just trying to grow community. And, like, I don't know. I think just my approach was, you know, uniquely myself, and I was pleased with it.

[Nick]

So I imagine your connection with Cindy caught you off guard in a way that maybe you didn't expect.

[Xavier]

Yeah, no, I had the intent of, you know, growing community, friendships, and then, like, the hope of, like, a romantic relationship or experience. But to see it in a way where it was almost, like, seamless, that was really surprising. But, like, a good surprise, obviously.

[Leia]

How was it watching it back? Did you feel any sort of way toward Mikey, or did you just have all the backstory of Sidney's side that you were kind of like, I see right through this guy?

[Xavier]

To be candid, I was just only concerned about how me and Cindy were looking. And then all my guys, all the friends in the house. I've always been someone who's, you Know, focused on, you know, what's right in front of me and what I can control. And you know, Sydney was right in front of me the whole time. So.

[Nick]

Have you ever been a Mikey in past relationships where I only had because like, just watching the show, he just seemed like I was really fascinated by their relationship in the sense that, that, you know, he seemed like a guy who really took for granted his girlfriend and, and like saw her as like, like his hometown girl that like, he took for granted. And then all of a sudden you came in and you're giving her the attention she deserves. And it was like he started seeing her in a whole new way. I mean, it was, you know, like he, he watches you make out with his girl and he, he. His first thought is, we can make this work. You know, like, it's like, but did you have to learn the hard way? I'm curious. What brought you to the point where you seem like a safe place and you know, like a face like yours and 10 like yours. You could be playing the kind of the boy car, but it doesn't seem like what you're all about. How did you get to this place of emotional maturity and, and groundedness?

[Xavier]

I think that's something that happens with time. Okay. Luckily, I feel like I had just a great display of what a relationship and it should be. My parents have been, you know, knowing each other and being together since like middle school. So as far as like communication, working through the hard time just. And learning someone, I feel like I had a good foundation for what that looked like.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Xavier]

And then just over time, through just my own experience of learning how I can show better in the space and how to be a good listener. Like, I feel like that's one thing that like Sydney, you know, or feedback to me was just like, I guess clear boundaries, listening and trying to like actually like hear her.

[Leia]

I usually am like an anti guitar kind of guy, but the electric guitar was a nice surprise. I was like, wait, this is different. And I'm kind of into it.

[Susie]

So I'm glad that it was.

[Xavier]

I'm glad I didn't bring my acoustic then.

[Leia]

I mean, I'm sure you are talented enough to play both, of course. But the electric was definitely a nice like, oh, he's edgy.

[Nick]

The way it aired though, in the best way for you, Xavier, is if like you. It just there happened. Happened to be a guitar line and you just kind of like decided to kill time by like plucking on a few strings as opposed to being the guy who's like I can play music.

[Horace Gold]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Everyone come listen, right?

[Xavier]

I'm telling you as far as like everyone brought like their own thing to the island for like recreation time. And like mine was like a language book. Practicing a journal.

[Susie]

No, literally.

[Nick]

He's amazing. Yeah.

[Xavier]

So I mean definitely was something just like, you know when we're like sitting around in the villa or the house with all the guys that we call the barracks, like we would just be messing around. Like I told a couple guys and then one other guys who played. We were playing and stuff. So I know it brought a good vibe type of thing.

[Horace Gold]

Can I ask a question?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

Who came up with your like entrance lines? Because some of them were and I just need to know where that from came came from.

[Xavier]

It was team effort. I, I can't speak on everyone's. I know myself, you know, like being a track star in the past, like I gave some context so you know what my thoughts were for some ideas and then just it was, you know, team aspect of just like, you know what we were thinking and then what producers were thinking. So. But I know like some people, my roommate like Braden Holiday, like I'm pretty sure he came up with his like off grip and this was pretty good. Like it didn't get aired, but it was like, like his name is Braden Holiday and he's like my name is Braden Holiday and like I'll be your favorite, like Holiday away from your boyfriend or something. So I mean like some people were

[Horace Gold]

pretty good cuz some of them were like my dad's Willy Wonka and I'm going to suck your. And I was like, what is going on? What is like, huh?

[Leia]

Wait, what's your name?

[Horace Gold]

I don't know how the two are related, but okay.

[Xavier]

Hey,

[Susie]

Willy Wonka. That is so true.

[Horace Gold]

Some people are a little.

[Xavier]

I, I, I will say there was like a spectrum. There was a spectrum.

[Nick]

I gotta ask, as a former track guy myself, what was your event?

[Xavier]

My event was the 400 and the 400.

[Nick]

Mine was the 400 and the 800.

[Leia]

Xavier, what was your time in the 400?

[Nick]

What was your time? What was your time?

[Leia]

What was your time?

[Xavier]

My 400 was 46, 8 and then my hurdles were 51 3.

[Nick]

468 is really good. I was, I was a 47 one.

[Xavier]

Oh shoot. Yeah, you were legit. Oh my God.

[Leia]

He was the State champion of Wisconsin.

[Nick]

151 in the 800.

[Horace Gold]

Xavier.

[Xavier]

No, that's solid.

[Nick]

Not 46. What I was, I ran at Wisconsin and UWM back in the day. Long time ago. Yeah.

[Xavier]

Big Ten guy from Wisconsin.

[Leia]

You know about the Big Ten?

[Horace Gold]

I'm a basketball guy. I know about the big time artist

[Nick]

likes me more now.

[Horace Gold]

Yeah, I really do. I really do. That endeared me that you a lot.

[Nick]

Did you ever get a chance, Xavier, to confront or meet or talk to Mikey in a way, like, I guess post leaving the island alone that Mikey did and you left with his girl. Did you ever have a chance to have like a guy chat or a heart to heart? Like, did any interaction with you and Mikey take place that we didn't get to see that we might have wanted to hear about?

[Xavier]

No, there was no interaction that took place. And to be frank, I.

[Nick]

You don't care.

[Xavier]

I really didn't have any need to on my behalf.

[Nick]

So you don't even need Noah's middle name.

[Xavier]

Yeah.

[Leia]

What was. What was up with Kai's intro package? The like, dude, dude, duh. Yeah, it was duh.

[Horace Gold]

Surfing, duh. Sunlight, duh. Cte, duh.

[Xavier]

No, early on we knew Kai had some crazy good energy. That being said, that's a whole nother type of energy. But oh, my gosh, like, we were just out of Miami for Korea and we were just spamming that. Everyone was saying duh, like on the. On. On the little sign that said temptation Island Season 2, we wanted to put like, duh on the end of it. But no, I don't know how he came up with that mess, especially on the slide.

[Horace Gold]

He also disappeared after.

[Leia]

Yeah, 90 times. And then we never saw.

[Horace Gold]

It's like Bloody Mary. But

[Nick]

were there any connections in your house that we didn't get to see that you were surprised didn't get aired?

[Xavier]

I don't think they really went in depth as much with Brad and Scarlet's connection. Okay. Like, they were locked in, like, early on as far as just like two people, same age range, just like, same like, depth. I know about similar, like, upbringing, but, like, similar, like, depth communication wise and just like, values. It just like, like they were a seamless pair as well. Like both myself and Sid and then like, them too. I don't know. There was a lot of alignment, so I feel like they just didn't like, go as deep into what that was, but there was a lot with it.

[Leia]

It is so funny watching the show and just seeing the, like, stark difference between the two houses and how it's just like bone party girls twerking and then the guys. It's like, we're gonna do a talent show.

[Horace Gold]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Was that the ladies idea or Was it your guys's idea? Idea? Because it almost felt like watching the show because, like, early on, it's less like that. The Temperances, it's like, yeah, they just put on their bathing suits, move around, and the guys are just like, you know, and it's, I feel like the women are a little bit of a slow burn. They want to, like, talk to the guys. It's a little chill. I almost felt like the women are making you guys do backflips as a way to like, make you guys give them the ick in a way to protect them from themselves. I've never met, I never thought, I've never met a woman who, who, who was turned on by a backflip the way that guys are turned on by other men doing backflips. Like, I see a guy do a backflip, I'm like, that's cool.

[Leia]

Taylor is turning.

[Susie]

Yeah, I know.

[Nick]

Yeah. So how did that come to be?

[Xavier]

Yeah, no, there's definitely, like, stark contrast between the two different houses. I mean, I think that's just, like, knowing your audience, like, as far as just, like, you know, having empathy with the girls in the house and just, like, understanding that, like, I guess, guess sitting, those, sitting in those emotions early on might be a little bit harder to, you know, in parallel, put yourself out there, get to know these new guys opposed to, like, guys who, like, might just be, like, simpler creatures in some ways, you know, to just like, release a little bit of those, you know, sad feelings and still put themselves out there. Okay, that being said, like, with time, I, I, I feel like we got there. Granted, we didn't have, like, any type of, like, lingerie party, but, I mean, like, they loosened up. They loosened up.

[Horace Gold]

Okay. Do you guys, like, discussion the outside world as far as, like, if you and Sydney left the island together, like, do you discuss, like, the logistics of, like, where do we align politically? Do you want kids? Where do you want to live? Like, do you talk about that real stuff, or do you think the majority of the experience is sort of, like, caught in that haze of, like, we're in Hawaii and, like, you are leaving your boyfriend? Like, what, how real do those conversations get that we don't get to see?

[Xavier]

Yeah, no, the conversations got extremely real. Like, the death fight went into, you know, how we grew up, you know, upbringing, like, the school districts we were in, how that shaped us. Like, family values and then values in other spaces as well. So, like, we really dive deep into each other.

[Nick]

I'm just curious if you're watching the Show. What I really enjoyed this season was to see usually when we watch these shows, it's always like, the men going to these islands and seemingly, like, convincing the girlfriends to go and taking advantage of the situations they find themselves in. I always wanted to have a threesome.

[Xavier]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, like last season. Season, you know, but, like, this season, it was, like, it seemed to be the opposite. Where it was a lot of women, like, being frustrated with their current relationships, feeling underappreciated, undervalued, and things like that. And I'm just curious, watching it back. Have you ever been on their side of things and, you know, like, what did you think of that? Being, like, a guy who is, like. It seemed like the men on this side were, like, not like the fuck boys, but guys who were there to, like, listen and, like, you know, show up in ways that maybe they weren't receiving in their other relationships. Relationship. And I'm just, like, curious, like, what was your perspective on that?

[Xavier]

You know, I thought it was a unique situation, too, because, like, like I said, I can only control myself. But just, like, one thing, they didn't show in there, which, like, I guess might not be reality tv, but, like, like, we had, like, a family dinner. I'm like, I've never been invited to, like, a Thanksgiving, like, like, friends giving type thing. I've always wanted that we had that. So, I mean, I think that just spoke to how close knit of a unit we were. You know, we were actively trying to, like you said, take advantage of the situation. I feel like there's just alignment across the board with, like, all the guys in the house that we were just trying to leave the girls in a better position than what they came in. That being said, like, either going back through a partner, staying by themselves, you know, finding a new connection, but just, like, actually trying to be there, you know, and be, like, a solid sambo or friend for them.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Beautiful.

[Nick]

Any other questions for Xavier before we let him go?

[Susie]

Thank you for your service. Really. I feel like this. That's something I should say as a woman. I just feel like you were a really great representation of, like, a kind, good person. You weren't putting pressure on it for it to be anything outside of emotional. And, you know, there wasn't, like, this pressure to be, like, physical cheating, whatever. It just felt like you were really a good guy.

[Nick]

Yeah. On a show called Temptation island, where we have people named tempters and temptrances, I was just surprised to see, like, yeah, like, good male represent straight male representation on reality TV in 2026. We don't see a lot of them. A lot of, like, guys reroot for, like, the hot guys who are also the good guys. You know, it's like, you seem to have to choose between one of the two, and we. We got to find that on Temptation island this season. Thanks to Xavier.

[Xavier]

I appreciate y'. All. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Nick]

Well, man, it was. It was great watching you. We're excited to keep talking about this show, and I'm. You're the first one we got to interview from. From this season, so it was a great way to kick it off, and it'll be fun to unpack the rest of these relationships. But Mikey never planned on you showing up, that is for sure. Yeah,

[Xavier]

Yeah. I don't think a lot of people play it on that, but, I mean,

[Nick]

hey, I. I think you taught Mikey a very valuable lesson, and I hope that he's willing to learn that lesson, because I think there's a lot of people out there who have. Who have dated someone and took in them for granted and didn't really see their value until other. Until someone else showed up and saw the. The person they dated for who they are. And it was interesting to see Mikey kind of. Of watch him through that experience. And if he's willing to, I think he can learn a lot from it. I don't know if he'll ever thank you for it, but I honestly think you did him a favor in the long run because hopefully he won't take his next partner for granted. Like, he seemed to take Sydney for granted.

[Susie]

You're his future partner. Well, thank you.

[Xavier]

I'm telling you, that whole gift card of saying, like, she's the prize. I think it's really easy, you know, the monotony of, you know, work life and all the things to just, like, lose grass so, you know, like, right what's right in front of you? So, I mean, like, honestly, I feel like that was learning an opportunity for a lot of people who tuned in because, you know, try to appreciate, you know, what they have presently.

[Nick]

All right, well, Xavier, we appreciate you taking the time. Best of luck in life. Hope it goes great.

[Leia]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Take care, buddy.

[Xavier]

Thank you, guys. I appreciate it. All right, you guys have a good one, too.

[Horace Gold]

God, that show is designed only for straight people, because if there were a bunch of gay guys on the same island, we would have just, like, stopped, started an orgy on the first night. Like, it's like. It's truly, like, I was like, this is so. I have A question for you guys. Is it cheating in that environment?

[Susie]

I think it depends on the boundaries

[Leia]

set, like, going in.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Leia]

I think each of these couples are like, hey, these are our boundaries. Like, we heard Cole and Scarlett be like, you can't go on multiple dates with the same person. Was, like, a boundary they set, which clearly that was broken. But, like, I guess if you go in and you're like. Like, you explore. I'll explore the jungles of Hawaii, and if it's better at home, then, like, we'll leave together.

[Nick]

Right.

[Horace Gold]

Right.

[Leia]

You know?

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Was there any couple that you guys were rooting for that would work out?

[Horace Gold]

No, no, no.

[Mary]

None of them. None of them.

[Horace Gold]

Look, Cole or Summit and Kaylee, I think they're maybe just too young. Like, he's really immature in that sense where I'm like, he is 25. Does he want to be. Be married right now? That's not ridiculous. To. Not to be a year into a relationship and not know at 25 if

[Susie]

you want to be married or not.

[Horace Gold]

I don't think that's, like, crazy.

[Leia]

What did. What is your thoughts on Jack?

[Susie]

How old was he? Was he 20? He was giving 21 to me. I don't know if he could have been 18.

[Nick]

He could have been 35. Really? Very age ambiguous.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

Don't. I don't understand how, like, he got Cheyenne. I don't. I don't understand how that initially happened. I don't understand, like, it's high school.

[Nick]

That's what I feel like happened.

[Susie]

Me too.

[Leia]

They were like, high school. Sweet.

[Nick]

They're each other's first love. And that love you can't shake, you know, like, you don't know why.

[Horace Gold]

But he also, I guess, has that, like, west sauce. You know, the. Like, he's got some swag, the sauce that oozes off you. But I was like, I'm too mean to really speak my thoughts right now.

[Leia]

And, like, him. Him switching up two girls.

[Susie]

Yeah. They did not hold him accountable enough. And I could.

[Leia]

Like, we're just here to be a part of his journey.

[Nick]

Oh, my gosh.

[Susie]

I'm like, I know that hurt that first girl's feelings when she woke up. Then you could see it on her face. But she also probably felt like, I. I can't really have a say in this. And it's like, yeah, you can look real stupid if you hold him accountable after tempting him the first time.

[Mary]

Yeah, I guess it is. If you're. If you're a temptress, you. And he's tempted by you and another temptress. Like, yeah, can't.

[Susie]

But they made an emotional connection. That's how it started.

[Mary]

I'm sure they did.

[Susie]

You know, they made an emotional connection. So I'm like, well, to her. You know what I mean? So I'm like, yeah, of course your feelings are hurt that he hooked up with another girl. But like, you can't say honey.

[Horace Gold]

Like, yeah, I mean, you did this from his perspective. I actually do kind of get it because I do believe Cheyenne was with Preston by that time when the second girl. When he went with the second girl. So by that point I'm like, he knows it's over with his girlfriend. That it's like, you might as well milk this thing and like go for whoever you think is hot at that point because you're not going on with your girlfriend.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

So I'm like, in that sense, I do kind of get it. It's like, if I'm here, I might as well do it.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

But yeah. Not. I don't understand his magic. I don't get it.

[Leia]

I mean, his. Like when they played that no one had done anything yet met. They had just played like the little game. And he says, you're like candy. I'm sorry.

[Horace Gold]

Yeah.

[Leia]

What?

[Susie]

Right?

[Leia]

Like that is already like, that's enough for Cheyenne to be like, we're done.

[Nick]

Bye.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

For the Venice who didn't watch. What did he say?

[Leia]

He said that I bet Carter's tastes like candy.

[Mary]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Leia]

And like if you are imagining what another.

[Nick]

He wrote that down. He wrote the word smells.

[Susie]

Right.

[Leia]

Or tastes like two S's.

[Susie]

You're sick. And knowing it's going to be said out loud in front of a group on camera. Probably going to get clipped and sent to your girlfriend.

[Nick]

No, he. Those two came to temptation on to break up.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

He came to break up with her.

[Leia]

They're like, this is the only way we'll get away from.

[Susie]

They have.

[Leia]

Exactly.

[Susie]

They have a constant cycle. From what it sounds like of you do something. So I retaliate, retaliate. And then I get even. But then that person now feels vindicated to then retaliate. And so it's just like this never ending cycle.

[Nick]

I feel like he was just like, you haven't broke up with me yet. All right, I'll hook up with another girl.

[Leia]

Him smacking her ass on the bed.

[Mary]

Oh, my.

[Leia]

Sent me into an absolute spiral.

[Mary]

Yeah. I've never felt more like a homosexual than watching.

[Leia]

Oh, my God. I have to do squats immediately.

[Horace Gold]

I just. I didn't get maybe the. If I was in that environment and I was hearing Jack talk about the girls in the house, like, that I would have have. Like, if I had a vagina, I feel it would have inverted.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

Like, hearing that. That I'm like, I don't understand sort of the angle of Carter and Jesenia. I think her name is. Like, I wouldn't have been attracted to that if I had heard him talk about other girls.

[Susie]

Totally.

[Horace Gold]

You know what I mean?

[Susie]

That's why I. I honestly wonder with some of these temptresses and like, no. No disrespect to them, but, like, I genuinely just think that they have to be just so down to, like, get screen time. Because when she was deciding to go in with him on the second night, I was like, there's no way you're actually attract.

[Horace Gold]

You're crazy.

[Susie]

Yeah. I'm like, you just want a little storyline, I think. Or maybe you want to make it onto perfect match later. I don't know.

[Nick]

Like, you as a guy, you know, it's on when some girls like, you're crazy.

[Horace Gold]

You're so crazy. I have a bra on.

[Leia]

You're so crazy.

[Nick]

When she goes, what are you doing? Put your pants back on.

[Susie]

Right.

[Horace Gold]

Well, you know what? And one thing that I do think was a very interesting psychological tell was him saying, are you attracted to me? I have never asked anyone that when we're having sex. Like.

[Leia]

Right.

[Horace Gold]

That is such an interesting way to phrase that. That, like, is he actually insecure around this? Do you think he knows that, like, Cheyenne is way hotter than him? Like what? Like, that sort of complex is really interesting to me. And I'm wondering if that's why he's like, collecting and cheating and trying to prove to himself that he's actually worthy. Because I think he's.

[Leia]

You asked me that and we're about to hook up.

[Horace Gold]

I feel like I was.

[Leia]

I actually am not.

[Susie]

Yeah. Not anymore.

[Horace Gold]

This homie, right now.

[Susie]

You're hideous.

[Horace Gold]

I'm broken proof in the cell. Thank you so much for bringing this delay.

[Mary]

I think the attract. I think it's like, do you care about me as a person?

[Horace Gold]

Right.

[Mary]

Who knows? But, like, you're definitely attracted to them if you want to have sex with them.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

It's like asking, like, questions you would ask your therapist as, like, foreplay is like, really interesting. Like, it's usually like, oh, like, I just. That's a weird thing to say. Right. And so I do think that I'm like, I wonder if this guy is actually like, Self sabotaging via, like, this cheating. This, like, you know, distance from his girlfriend, who's beautiful, who's stunning. Like. Like, she's accepted these things about you.

[Nick]

Whose dream is to be a club promoter.

[Susie]

Right.

[Nick]

That's his goal. That's.

[Leia]

But then when Cheyenne was like, I love the clubs. I love going out. It was like, a couple episodes later,

[Susie]

and she was like.

[Leia]

I was like, oh, okay, so you

[Susie]

match made in heaven. Or they're 21.

[Horace Gold]

Right.

[Susie]

You know what I mean? Like, or they are literally just babies. And I'm like, you're just children. No harm, no foul. Like, thanks for the entertain. You'll figure it out later. That's kind of how I feel. Yeah.

[Mary]

It is really. Like, they should be at the club.

[Susie]

Yeah, they should be at the club.

[Mary]

They are.

[Nick]

I don't know. I'm curious. I thought it was really interesting. Like, the guys cared way more about their. Their partners. Like, talking about them and their character way more than them physically hooking up with another guy.

[Susie]

But they weren't hooking up with other guys.

[Nick]

When. When Sydney hooked up with. Made out with Xavier.

[Justin]

Oh.

[Nick]

He was like, I'm gonna fight for her. You know, we can make this work. And then the next one, when she was like, I can do better than Mikey. He was like, her. Whatever. I just think it's fascinating that for all like, it. We always assume that crossing a physical boundary is, like, something you can't go back from. But I definitely think for guys like you, you will cut a man if you, like, talk about his, like, lack of masculinity or you call him a loser or things like that.

[Leia]

When Kaylee called him,

[Nick]

he was like, you could. He was like, right. Upset.

[Horace Gold]

But I think that tracks. Like, men generally, like, our intimacy is not physical.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

Most of the time, like, that's not the most intimate thing. Like, I think a lot of men have capacity for casual sex.

[Nick]

Yeah. Versus, like, they want to feel respected.

[Horace Gold]

Right.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Susie]

Interesting.

[Horace Gold]

So I don't. I think that that point can sort of gloss over because it's not as.

[Nick]

But we always assume men being so physical, that that's what they care about the most. But it's like, I think this show is so fascinating because you realize they don't care about that as much as if you, like, talk down about his character.

[Horace Gold]

Well, it's the perception of man.

[Susie]

I'm learning so much right now.

[Horace Gold]

The perception of man is. And that's the thing. This is a deep lore moment. I'm obsessed with the Hunger Games, and so I Watched a video essay of someone breaking down the guy in the first Hunger Games book. And it talks about how. How in this video essay on YouTube, it talks about, I'm closing my eyes so I can focus. It talks about how masculinity is this really delicate entity. Right. And how it is almost this, like, externally validated experience where, like, you can't really take away womanhood in the same way that manhood is as delicate. Right. Like, if you call a woman a girl, it's not the same as calling a man a boy. Right. And we saw that so many times with Kaylee being like, I'm purposely calling him a boy right now. Like, he's a boy, he's a boy. And so the perception of manhood is more important than the physical manifestation of it. And so the idea of these mental men feeling like, do you see me as a man? Do you see me? Is that still intact? That is the more important part than, like, the physical touch. Because that part, like, sex is like, it. We don't as men, we're not as. We can have more casual sex.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Horace Gold]

But, like, I cannot unring the bell of you thinking I'm not man enough.

[Nick]

Yeah. And it's so fascinating. And I always, like, you know, one, like rule. I always, like. I learned this from my wife when we were, like, dating and not together. And I'll never forget when she was like. I was like, I don't know. I don't know. And then she was like. And I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, I got a date and she told me. And like, usually, like, a lot of times where I'm, like, talking to my woman friends and they're like, having a situationship. They will. The amount of times they will, like, lie to the guy they want. They want. And they'll be like, I don't have anything else going on. The way that women will, like, avoid to the guy they want to date. Not making themselves seem desired because they think that if they say to this guy, oh, I have. I have other options that that guy won't be interested in this them. And it's the exact opposite. Like, if you tell a guy you're desired and other men want to date you, just, like, just like the other way around, it makes you more attractive. But the amount of women I know will, like, not be honest with their, like, situationship and be like, oh, no, I don't have a date, or like, I don't want to tell them I'm. I'm desired is like, the worst mistake. You tell them. Tell me you have a date. Like, when Natalie told me she was going on a date, I, like, freaked out.

[Horace Gold]

Were you actually going on a date?

[Leia]

Yeah. He FaceTimed me, and I was getting ready. He's like, what are you doing? I'm, like, going on date. Sorry, you don't want to date me. This man does. And then Nick was like, wait.

[Xavier]

Wait a minute.

[Mary]

I love you.

[Nick]

But that's how it works. That's how it works. Because, again, it's not the. It's not the. It's perception. It's a. It's just like, oh, it. It. It makes you question your identity and your. Your.

[Susie]

You know, and this is not to do with y' all at all.

[Leia]

Okay, perfect.

[Susie]

Because I just want to say that. Because we're talking about that, but what you guys were saying earlier about, like, this perception of manhood, my issue with it is that I'm like, they had so many opportunities before coming to this island to prove that they were masculine and that they were a good leader or a good partner. All these things. And then they get there, and you're finally hearing what your partner is saying behind your back or reading her journal or whatever it is, and it's like, it's. And I understand, like, it is so sad. And I. And I did start, to feel, like, some empathy for these men at a certain point in the show. At a certain point. But, like, you had so many opportunities to just step up and, like, be a man, and now your feelings are hurt because the perception isn't there, but it's like, what have you done to earn that? Where I feel like, the physical side, I'm like, it's kind of so easy to not be physical in these situations. It's like, if the. If the whole point is to not be physical, but, like, they're. They're breaking it or. Or they've broken it before. I'm like, I just can't understand how they would even expect their partner to speak highly of them when it's like, you've treated them poorly or you've, like, talked poor about their body or you've.

[Leia]

You lied to them the week before you show up.

[Susie]

Literally, like, not understanding or grasping the concept of proactive transparency. Like, that is something that just infuriates me. And I'm like, and the goalpost keeps moving. But I'm like, no, they just becoming. They're becoming more clear because they're trying to help you understand. It's like, the goal keeps moving. No, you clearly don't understand what transparent or being upfront about, just like, being transparent is like, what are we?

[Leia]

How.

[Susie]

How can the goalpost not keep moving?

[Mary]

I do feel like Temptation island sometimes is just like. You watch men have to go through the. Mikey, for example, had to literally have the, like, worst thing happen to him that could happen to him in order for him to understand a concept that, like, exactly a girl probably understood when she was. Was like 15, you know, which is that you have to treat people like they deserve to be treated right, or else they're gonna leave you and find someone like Xavier that will treat them well.

[Nick]

Do you think Mikey's whole, like, I was a dog back in the day, I was a dog, you know, keep saying that? Do you think that was a bit of a front? Do you feel like he was as much of a dog as he claims he was?

[Horace Gold]

Well, I mean, I think Sydney did corroborate that, right, where she was saying, like, he chose his ex and was like, our initial heartbreak, blah, blah, blah. But I don't. To your. I don't know. I don't know that I believe him totally on his word. Just because there were so many times where it was like, this clear heartbreak is happening in front of him and he's like, posturing that. I'm like, totally, you know, Brene Brown, like, in acceptance, everything's okay right now. And I'm like, if you were actually able to say you're hurt and say you're in pain and like, express that to. I don't know. I just think he, like, covers a lot lot in a way that I don't believe a lot of the things he says.

[Nick]

It was just fascinating because it. It seemed like his impression of why those two were there is that she wanted them to go so he could prove his, like, loyalty and faithfulness, which, like, sure, you didn't hook up with any girl, but he started his journey by being this. Having the. The three amigos and flirting with all the girls and just like, making these comments where it's just like, you didn't think that would bother her like that? All he. It's like he thought all he had to do was not fucking someone. And he thought that was going to be enough for Sydney to like, Yeah,

[Susie]

I think college is just easier. You can hook up with anybody any night of the week. Everyone's drinking, everyone's partying. He's like, college, Mikey's gone. And I'm like, yeah, cuz, like, nobody's drinking and partying the way that we did in college. Like, people aren't. People have to go to work in the morning.

[Leia]

You know what I mean?

[Susie]

Like. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. I feel like he does put on this front of, like, I was a dog, but I'm like, no, like, everyone. Everyone was doing that in college, you know?

[Horace Gold]

And I think also. So to your point, like, I think that there's a. I'm a big believer that, like, you can have the right message and be the wrong messenger, you know? And so it's like, I think when you're hearing from your partner, all the ways in which you're doing it poorly, or I feel like, not seen or however that might happen, it's. It doesn't hit the same. It's like your mom telling you to clean up your room, you know, over and over and over again. But then you, like, find out that, like, the girl you like is coming over, you're gonna clean your fucking room, you know? And so it's.

[Mary]

So.

[Horace Gold]

It's like there is this sort of. I think, boys, we don't do well with, like, object permanence. You know what I mean? It's like, we almost need that, like, third thing to come in to then be able to, like, see it for its truth. Whereas I think women have, like, more foresight. I think women are forced to sort of, like, from survival probably, like, are forced to sort of see situations as far as they could unfold before they do, you know, versus, like, men are sort of like fire now. Like, in front of me. Like, that's all I can really see. Like, I can't predict too much of the future, and I can. And I'm that man. I have had conversations, go over and over and over, and then one day I'm like, oh, I needed, like, the light bulb moment that.

[Susie]

How do we fix that? Like, can we start a program in schools or something? Like, you know what I mean?

[Horace Gold]

It is called therapy.

[Susie]

Like, how do we, like, get in and, like, proactively work on that? Like, because I'm like. I am, like, watching it. I'm like, what are we doing?

[Horace Gold]

Yeah, it's. I truly do think it's like a third. I think couples therapy. Couples therapy is preventative, not restorative. Let me also say that the moment you think you love someone six months in, go to couples therapy, Start getting ahead of that shit.

[Nick]

It's like a bicycle. Bicycle helmet. Not a reconstructive surgery.

[Horace Gold]

Yes.

[Susie]

Love it.

[Nick]

It's a seatbelt summit. Taught men all a valuable lesson, which is, I don't care if you're. If your girlfriend asks you for a workout or what her. What. What your opinion is on any particular part of her body. I don't. I don't care if she's even asked. Asking. Don't give her the workout. Don't. Don't. You know when she was, like, talking about the way he body shamed her and he's like, yeah, I know what she's talking about. But he made it. He tried to sell it as like, well, I was just giving her workout tips.

[Leia]

He's like, she asked. She said she wanted her butt to be bigger, so I gave her some workouts to get her butt bigger, and now she's pissed. I feel like there's more to that story.

[Susie]

I know, Me too.

[Leia]

I feel like you're leaving out some.

[Nick]

But even. Even if that's how that story went.

[Horace Gold]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Don't offer the. Don't. Don't get excited about, like, your girlfriend's asking you, like, what kind of squat she could do.

[Horace Gold]

I've been summit.

[Leia]

You've been summit, where it's like, don't, don't ask.

[Nick]

Every guy has that fixer mentality. And if you, like, ask, you know, and like, and if. If there's any part of you that agreed with her take, you know, don't

[Susie]

agree with the take, we'll just don't agree with the take. Did you agree with the take in your situation when you were the summit?

[Horace Gold]

I. My. The thing about it is that when you're, like, a fitness person, when you, like, go to the gym, you're in that lifestyle, you do like, all the shit.

[Nick]

And he is. Cause his abs are abs crazy.

[Horace Gold]

You do start to, like, depersonalize the body, right? Like, it starts to be like, oh, dude, your glutes are crazy. I'm not saying, nick, show me your ass. I'm saying your glutes are. What did you do for that? Like, it gets very, like, sort of clinical almost, in a way. And so when your partner is asking a person whose response is going to be clinical and not really, really completely in touch with the emotions that are going into the scenario, you might give a. Okay, you want a bigger ass, Great. Do hip thrust. Do this. Blah, blah, blah. Your partner's hearing, oh, my God, Summit fucking hates me. He wants me dead. Like, but it's like, I wasn't actually. I was just being really earnest and sort of being like a gym bro in that moment. But as partners, we hold so much. Like, it's so delicate, right? And like, it Feels so layered when someone might say something like that. So I actually understood. Understood that he might not have been trying to be insulting to Kaylee, but she was feeling so insecure from other aspects of the relationship that.

[Nick]

That probably that's how it came across to me where he was like, what you asked, right? You know, like, he kind of gave that dumb Jim bro response, and, like, she will never forget. I also think Scarlett came on the show to break up with. With Cole because at some point, I was like, what do you mean by deep? Or do you just not. Not like them?

[Susie]

Both, I think. Yeah, I think both. I, I. I don't know that she came on the show to break up with him, but I think it would have been a. It would have been just so hard to come back. Like, I don't know exactly what happened in their case, back home, but, like, I so resonated with her, and I was like, I really understand where she's coming from that I don't know. I don't. I. Maybe she was. Maybe she knew she was gonna break up with him, maybe she didn't. But I just think it would have been so hard to come back from,

[Leia]

like, him reading her journal. He's. And he's like, she's gonna be mad at me for this. Well, close it, sir.

[Nick]

Yeah, no, she goes. She go. He goes. Do you think she's gonna be mad? And then cut to her going, we have one rule, one rule at home,

[Leia]

and it's do not read my journal.

[Susie]

Do not read my journal.

[Mary]

If you're at a point in a relationship where you feel like you need to read the other person's journal. Donezo.

[Leia]

It's done.

[Nick]

If Nelly lift at our house. She's. She's my wife. She's the mother of my kids. I will would close that up and never take a peek. I wouldn't even remotely be curious. That would be like.

[Horace Gold]

I mean, it's the same reason that I don't want my superpower to be able to, like, read people's minds, because I don't want to know what you think about me.

[Leia]

Is Horace Gold your birth name?

[Horace Gold]

Like, Horace is my middle name.

[Leia]

Okay. Is Gold your last name?

[Horace Gold]

No, it's a stage name. I won't say it because I don't want to be doxed, and I've almost been dox.

[Leia]

Like, how did you come up with that? It's so good.

[Horace Gold]

I was high on marijuana, and I was like, so I've always hated my, like, legal name. My full name is really cool. My first name's Philip, and I love the name Philip. I think it's, like, beautiful. But people always shorten Philip to Phil. And I'm like, I'm not.

[Nick]

Different name.

[Horace Gold]

I'm not a Phil. Like, I did not give you consent. I'm not a Phil. And then I was in college. I went to music school. And so I was like, figuring out, like, the artist thing. I was like, what do I want to do? And I was like, horror. And I was like, with a friend who I was, like, making music with, and he was like, horse Gold. And I was like, cool. And that was really. It was like, really kind of it. And then I was like, susie, do

[Nick]

you ever wish that you were became a public figure not on reality tv. So, like, like, horse, you could come up with a. Because I was always Nick V. On the Bachelor. And then I. And then I decided to make my show named after a name no one could pronounce.

[Susie]

Yeah. Well, the only name I've ever really resonated with is like, my stripper name. You know how they're like. It's like your first dog. And then the street lived on.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Susie]

Crystal Hunts Neck Hunt snack.

[Mary]

It's getting hunting wives.

[Susie]

So good. Good. Crystal Hun. My first dog. And then the first street I lived on, like o.

[Mary]

Mine's Sammy. Sammy Santa Rosa.

[Horace Gold]

That's great.

[Xavier]

Wow.

[Leia]

Mine is Maximus Hillbrook.

[Susie]

That's tough. That's tough.

[Horace Gold]

Mine is Jesse 101st.

[Nick]

Is the dog name first?

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Xavier]

All right.

[Nick]

Wally Mapleway.

[Horace Gold]

That's.

[Susie]

I could see it. I could see it.

[Nick]

Wally Molly Mapleway.

[Horace Gold]

Wow.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Nick]

Horace, this has been a ton of fun, man, and we are so glad that you came. You want come to come back?

[Horace Gold]

I would love to come back. I'm really having fun.

[Nick]

So much fun. Where can people find you? Enjoy all the great stuff that you're doing.

[Horace Gold]

I am on Instagram Tik tok at Horus Gold H A C G O L D. I have a YouTube channel and a podcast that is not in current flow that I need to bring back because I want to be on your level called hardly qualified on YouTube.

[Nick]

I.

[Horace Gold]

You'll see me on TV and commercials because I act and make music. I do everything. If there's a camera or microphone, he does everything.

[Nick]

We enjoyed having you. Please come back. And if you aren't following Horus, be sure that you do that. You'll be glad that you did. He's got a lot of hilarious, fun, hot takes on all things. I know you listening will enjoy hearing from Horus.

[Leia]

And thanks to Xavier, he's also so hot.

[Susie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And just like I had to say, that really seems like a great guy.

[Horace Gold]

What's wrong with him?

[Susie]

What language was he learning? Spanish, Portuguese. Right.

[Nick]

He came in to learn. You know what, I got some free time. I want to learn a whole new language.

[Susie]

Yeah. What do we baby?

[Nick]

Things. Oh, and then he just dropped it. He's an engine. Did we know that? He's an engineer.

[Susie]

Engineer.

[Leia]

They need to put. They do. I will say they need to put their jobs.

[Horace Gold]

Jobs.

[Leia]

I need to know what their jobs are.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Susie]

That's all I have to say.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Susie]

That was hot.

[Nick]

All right. Well, thank you to our guest Horace Gold and Xavier for joining us. We will be back tomorrow. Don't forget we have Joey Fatone here. I know you all know who Joy Fatone and he is a member of the iconic band NSync. And he's got a new doc out talking about all his experience, experiences growing up in boy bands in the boy band world of the late 90s and early 2000s. It's a fascinating documentary and it's a fascinating interview with Joey Fatone. And then also we're back on Thursday we got Amanda from Beverly Hills Housewives with us. Super excited about that. And on Friday we got Paul Walter Hauser. I'm very excited about that. Literally one of my favorite actors of of today he is with us. He's got a new movie called called Balls up with Mark Wahlberg. It's an hilarious comedy and he is with us on Friday. So it's a jam packed week. Be sure to keep listening, tell your friends, subscribe all that fun stuff. We'll see you back tomorrow.

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[Horace Gold]

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[Nick]

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[Horace Gold]

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[Leia]

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[Horace Gold]

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