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- [00:00]
Nick
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- [00:38]
Natalie
Speaking of, we are transitioning river into a into a big girl bed and we have gotten her a twin mattress from Helix because we want her to sleep as good as she sleeps with us in her own bed.
- [00:49]
Nick
So if you are looking at getting a new mattress, maybe you've been tossing and turning and wondering why you're not waking up rested and ready to go. Check out helixsleep.com, answer a few questions about your sleeping preferences and you'll be set up with a mattress that will change your life. If you don't want to take our word for it, well, don't worry, you can get a 120 night trial and a limited time warranty. Oh, you get 100, you got 20 more nights. They used to give 100, now they get 120. They don't care. They know you're going to love it. You know they dare you in those extra 20 days to not like that mattress. But if for some reason you can send it back for a refund. Their award winning lux and ultra premium elite collections are changing the game when it comes to mattresses. Also, all their mattresses come with a 10 to 15 year warranty depending on your mattress. And it's also recommended by leading chiropractors and doctors of sleep mat medicine as a go to solution for improving your sleep. I don't know what more we can say. You need to check out helixsleep.com and upgrade the mattress in your life today. Go to helixleep.com v I a l l for 20% off sitewide for their spring savings event. That's helixleep.com v I A l l for 20% off site wide. Make sure to enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com V I A L L Calling all small business owners. Really any business owner. Do you realize how many customers slip through the cracks? Missed calls follow happen. It all adds up. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q U O. The business communication system built so you never miss a call. Think about it like when you are calling electrician or whatever, landscaper, I don't know what your needs are. Chances are you're just kind of going through the pages online and you just keep on going until someone answers the phone. Well, don't let missed opportunity slip through the cracks. Get Quo if your team's communication is messy, your customers will feel it. Drop threads, slow replies it's one of the easiest ways to lose momentum. With Quo, your entire team can handle calls and texts from one shared number. No more missed messages or dropped conversations. Everyone sees the full thread, replies are faster and customers actually feel taken care of. Quo is the number one rated business phone system on G2 with over 3,000 reviews built on how modern teams work. More than 90,000 businesses, from solo operators to growing teams, rely on Quo to stay connected. It's really incredible what you do. It also seamlessly integrates with most CRMs out there. It's a great way to keep track of everything, have insights all in one place. Whether you're a team of a hundred and growing or a team of one, Quo can help streamline your business so you can focus on what matters. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo. That's Q U O for free. Plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.comv I A L L that's spelled Q U O one more time. Q u o.com v I a l l don't forget vile files plus now offers ad free episodes for all Vile Files episodes including Ask Nick Reality Recap and Going Deeper. Plus if you love Ask Nick, you will absolutely love our Ask N updates where you get updates of your favorite calls, our deep dive on all your favorite reality recap TV shows, and our pop culture roundup where we talk about all your favorite pop culture topics that we didn't get to in this week's episode. Plus deep dives on our Going Deeper guests, and so much more. All you have to do is go to Vile Files plus and you will be lucky you did.
- [04:05]
Paige
You're crazy.
- [04:17]
Nick
How's it going?
- [04:18]
Rachel
It's going. My name is Rachel. I am 37. And my question for you, Nick, is how long does he have to gray rock his baby mama before she gives up?
- [04:30]
Nick
What is gray rock?
- [04:33]
Rachel
So I actually just found this term myself. I was not familiar, but apparently it means when somebody's contacting you and you have no interest in contacting them back or playing that game, you give them one word answers or very short answers until they get the point.
- [04:54]
Nick
Who's gray rocking? Who in this scenario?
- [04:58]
Rachel
My boyfriend is gray rocking his baby mama.
- [05:02]
Nick
And you want that to stop, period.
- [05:05]
Rachel
I think that their consistent communication is unnecessary. And we've been together for over two years now. So I've been told several, several times. It's just about the kid. It's just about the kid. And it's not. So take on this.
- [05:27]
Nick
You do acknowledge that he has to co parent with this person if he chooses to want to be in this child's life, correct? Yeah.
- [05:35]
Rachel
Oh, yes. I'm full on co parenting.
- [05:38]
Nick
What in your mind is actually happening that you think is unnecessary outside of the expectations of co parenting?
- [05:47]
Rachel
So in my mind, I believe that conversations like, hey, oh my God, I just slept horribly, or I had such a great workout and this is what I did today, that for me seems unnecessary.
- [06:04]
Nick
That's fair. And so he's responding to this stuff
- [06:07]
Rachel
in so much as like, yeah, good, nice. So that's what I would call gray rocking.
- [06:14]
Nick
And he says, and his justification to you is what?
- [06:18]
Rachel
Keeping the peace. Like, we've known each other for so long and maybe she just doesn't have a friend like this that she can talk to.
- [06:28]
Nick
Were they married?
- [06:30]
Rachel
No.
- [06:30]
Nick
How long were they together for?
- [06:33]
Rachel
I think, like, close to 15 years.
- [06:36]
Nick
Oh, okay. And how old and how many kids do they have together?
- [06:41]
Rachel
One.
- [06:42]
Nick
One. How old is the child?
- [06:45]
Rachel
Fourteen.
- [06:45]
Nick
Okay. Okay. Yeah. So definitely less of a kids getting older, more independent. How long you been together with your boyfriend?
- [06:56]
Rachel
Just over two years now.
- [06:57]
Nick
Okay. And I'm assuming this has always been an issue.
- [07:02]
Rachel
It has. It's always been an issue. When I met the mother, it was just kind of like there was no interest at all in meeting me. There was. It was very. A very protective meetup. Meaning, like when we all three were together, she was very much like next to him and, you know, kind of like guarded in the whole situation. So it's always been like that. So I've tried my hardest to be like, hey, do you want to grab a coffee sometime? Hey, do you want to do this, do that? And it's like, no, she has no interest.
- [07:40]
Nick
And then when you. How many Times. Are you guys hanging out together?
- [07:44]
Rachel
Not often. Mostly for, like, sporting events for the kid.
- [07:50]
Nick
And when that does happen, do you feel like he's still in any way considering her, like, feelings?
- [07:59]
Rachel
Considering her feelings, yes. And I don't have. I don't have a problem with that. I think that's very genuine. That's nice.
- [08:05]
Nick
Yeah. I guess what I mean by, like, you know, you said soccer game, right? You go to a soccer game. Does he treat her any differently than he does, say, any of the other, like, parents?
- [08:16]
Rachel
Yes.
- [08:17]
Nick
Because I would think at this stage, yes, it would be weird. Like, you should feel like his partner. You should feel like his priority. It sounds to me like, you know, at this stage of the game, you. You really feel like this is his ex in a way that there's still a there. There. Almost as opposed to this is we have a kid together and we're both showing up and it's. We communicate because we have a kid together. But you find that there. There's a. There's an intimacy there almost, in a way.
- [08:50]
Rachel
Yeah, I. It's like. It's like on her end, like, this is my best friend, and I'll say whatever I want whenever I want. Like, 7am Text rolling in, doesn't give a shit. Sorry.
- [09:04]
Nick
You can swear.
- [09:06]
Paige
Okay.
- [09:08]
Rachel
It's just like, for me, it's inconsiderate and honestly goes against girl code. If there were any, you know, but
- [09:17]
Nick
she's not going to subscribe to girl code when it comes to you. And quite frankly, like, she's not going to be the one who solves this issue for her. Like, that would be great.
- [09:28]
Rachel
Exactly. Yeah.
- [09:29]
Nick
Yeah. It would be great if she took you up on the offer, and it would be great if she wanted to respect your boundaries. But, you know, she's not going to. She doesn't. She's not incentivized. And yeah, I mean, from her perspective, like, doesn't mean she's right. But, like, you know, this is a guy she's known forever. I don't, you know, I don't know why they're not together or who knows? And I'm sure she has some feelings about that, but they do have this child together, and in a way that you're a threat to that. And, like, there's probably a competitive element of, like, you know, she probably likes knowing that she can still get him to do things. So anyways, I totally get. Keep the peace from your partner. I understand. And that's probably, like, I'm just. Okay. Like, before we move forward, do you at least, at a minimum, trust his answer, whether you agree with how he's going about it?
- [10:21]
Rachel
His answer of keeping Platonic.
- [10:24]
Nick
Of keeping the peace. Just being like. I guess what I'm saying is there's two scenarios, right? Scenario one, there's a reason behind why he's doing it that's a little bit more concerning than keeping the peace in that he wants to maintain this level of closeness with his ex for whatever reason. Or scenario two, and my I'm hoping and guessing probably is that, like, he probably just wants to keep the peace and he's a little bit of a wuss for, you know, having the uncomfortable conversation with his ex or just like being comfortable with disappointing her, which is to just like, not respond to, like, that was a really tough workout, or I didn't sleep well last night. He can literally not respond. And he can even not respond to her being like, why didn't you respond? And you know, next time he sees her, she can be like, why haven't you responded to me? And he could just be like, yeah, sorry, I was just busy. But, like, was. I didn't, I didn't think it was really all that necessary. And he can be a little bit more short with her and he can be, you know, and if she ever, like, confronts him about a conversation, just be like, listen, I, you know, I'm in a relationship and I don't like, that is a relationship. I want to prioritize. But to your point, it feels to you, right, but he's. There's a part of your relationship with, with him that he's not, he's. He's not prioritizing. He sounds like there are moments where you feel like he still picks her.
- [12:03]
Rachel
It's. Yeah. And I understand that she is at this point in our lives, like, fully ingrained in his family because they've known each other. It's basically like a daughter of daughter in law, whatever you want to call it. But I have no disrespect for this person. I have no harsh feelings. I just find it, like absolutely infuriating that this needs to be a thing. Like, just find another friend.
- [12:32]
Nick
Are you, are you speaking to her or him?
- [12:34]
Rachel
Her.
- [12:36]
Nick
But again, I don't know what conversations you're having with your partner, but the way you speak, you speak like it's a. Her problem that you're expecting her to change course. That's not gonna happen. Just not gonna happen.
- [12:48]
Rachel
Correct.
- [12:49]
Nick
So, like, all this. Why does she keep doing what she's doing is a waste of your Time and it's a waste of your energy and it's just not productive. So don't know how much you're doing that with your partner, but the conversations need to start and end with him, so they do.
- [13:05]
Rachel
Okay. And so far what we have come up with is basically what you're saying. Like it doesn't mean she just does it. And I send like a small response and I am on, you know, your side here. It's like, well, just don't respond or just don't even play into it. I don't, I know I keep going back to it, but it's like a picture will come through and the picture will be like sometimes reminiscing like, oh, do you remember so and so from back in the day they did this and we went there and da, da, da, da. I get it. I understand that that elicits a response most times and it's like, yeah, I remember.
- [13:46]
Nick
Or yeah, out of politeness. I get it. You're right. And like at some point, your point is correct me if I'm wrong. You want to feel like he's picking you. You want to feel like he's saying no to her because he's saying yes to you. Right? Yeah. And you can't, you can't have it both ways. And she is an ex. She's not like a lifelong friend. And even sometimes platonic relationships between men and women, you know, need to change when some one of those people enters into a committed romantic relationship, you know, and even if they weren't exes, like they're sometimes are just like boundaries you don't cross. Like even platonic friends and men and women relationships, you can be the most straightforward platonic friends. You can have no desire to see them naked or sleep with them. And there can still be a level of intimacy with that person that might not otherwise be there if it was the same gender. Or maybe you can have, you know, men can love men in like friendship ways and there can be a level of intimacy, but assuming they're not gay or bi or even curious, there is like a built in boundary of like, well, I don't ever have to worry about that, you know, but it is what it is. When it comes to like someone with a different gender and then on top of it for you, this person is their ex, they have a kid together. So it does make, you know, like, that's where I'm hearing from you. And it seems like you haven't really, it seems like you've been pretty passive almost. And this the way you've been talking to me about how you've spoken to him. Because it sounds like you're trying to negotiate with him about this topic.
- [15:42]
Rachel
Yeah, it's very touchy, right? Like, I don't feel like I have. I would never have enough poll to be 43.
- [15:52]
Nick
Okay. You, you, you never would have enough pole to what?
- [15:54]
Rachel
To be like, hey, stop talking to her because they have a child together. I can't do that. Obviously.
- [16:00]
Nick
Yeah, I get the position you're in, but you, I think that's the thing where you have, you have to be confident in your position. And what, and I feel like what your position is and I agree with your position, which is I'm not asking you not to talk and co parent with the mother of your child. I'm not asking that. But you don't need to reminisce or respond to her like random texts that have literally nothing to do with your kid and guy to guy or women. Like, we don't, you don't have. He doesn't have to, you know, to be a woman to understand that like as human beings we'd like to test people and like, we want to see what we can get away with and we want to see if we still have any type of power or control in a situation where we definitely know we used to have power and control. And he needs to understand that. And you, I feel like, are in a position, if you found the words and the confidence to set a clear boundary and not negotiate with him. And I think where you're losing this battle is because you want to be so respectful to the co parent part. Right. And you feel like you have to like thread a needle when it comes to what he can and can't expect, or he's either playing dumb and being a little gaslighty by like playing dumb and acting like there's nothing he can do or he doesn't get it or understand what the issue is. He should be able to understand if he were to just take a moment and put himself in your shoes and if this was another guy doing this, it would bother him, it would rub him the wrong way, and it would be very clear to him what would be okay and what would not be okay, you know, and it's just like you want to feel like he has no issue or discomfort in saying no to her about things that have nothing to do with their child. And right now he doesn't have that comfort. And there are moments where you feel like he's picking her because like there's this choice, right. She gets a text. He's like, oh, fuck. I know it's going to upset, you know, it's going to upset my partner if I do respond, but it's going to make my life more difficult and accept my ex if I don't respond. And in those moments, he picks her up.
- [18:33]
Rachel
Yeah.
- [18:33]
Nick
And it's annoying and it's. And he doesn't have to pick her. He can choose to upset her. But he right now feels like. And I'm a make. I'm making an assumption here, but I feel like I'm confident in this assumption that his subconscious brain just has decided it's easier to upset you, then it's up to upset her. But that is a, that's kind of a you problem. I mean, and that's what I'm saying is you have to change that. You have as a. I think you've been too accommodating. I think you've been too understanding. I think you're trying to negotiate with him about like, what is. You're like, hey, I get you have a. I get you have a child together, so how can we make this work? A few minutes ago you said, well, what we came up with, as if you guys are like coming up with a plan together. That it's like, it's so complicated and so like, oh my God, we got to sit down and really, really break this down for the next eight hours is how do we make. It's not that hard. It's not that complicated. You don't need to like, ask him. You don'. Need his permission. The fact that he has a child with this person has nothing to do with him responding at 7:30am to like, how she. Her sleep patterns, you know what I'm saying? It's nothing to do with the 14 child. So you don't have to negotiate with him and you don't have to be like, hey, is this fair? You can be like, this is, this is annoying. And I'm tired of pretending that this has anything to do with, with co parenting. And this has everything to do with like, you still give a shit about her feelings. Which goes above and beyond just you being a considerate human. Because if, you know, if some random fucking person texts him at 7:30 in the morning, especially if it was a woman, he might not respond.
- [20:24]
Rachel
Right. And I totally understand everything you just said. My issue is, and this is where you're gonna tell me I'm being passive, is that it's like such a fine line between like, you Know, like, stop caring and care a little bit. Right?
- [20:44]
Nick
It's like, from who for you or him?
- [20:46]
Rachel
Justify for him. I've told him before what you just said. I was like, this is. It's inappropriate. It's annoying, it's infuriating, and it just needs to stop because it has no. Like, what's he say over your parenting skills? And he's like, yeah, but I'm. You know, I. I've done better. I muted the chats. I. I don't answer right away, or if I answer, it's just like, I reply with one word, and it's like, that's why I keep going back to it's her fault, but I can't do
- [21:19]
Nick
anything about that, so it's not her fault.
- [21:21]
Rachel
I know, I know.
- [21:22]
Nick
It's. It's. It's. He needs to own it a little bit more, and you need to be more hard. It's just like, this is not something you really have to try. And I think you need to challenge him to the point where, like, you're. You're. You're making this out to be more difficult than it needs to be, and you need to call him out for what he is saying. You know? Like, do you realize that the way you're acting, you're. You're. Like, what? I mean, again, maybe he does. Do you need therapy to get over your discomfort with upsetting your ex? Like, you. You care too much about what she thinks. It's. It's weird that you care so much about her feelings. And again, I. I'm glad that you're a loving, considerate, empathetic person. That's why you're my partner. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, like, you. You don't. I. If you. If I just start randomly texting some guy, like, oh, he was my best friend in high school, like. Because, again, the kid has nothing to do with this. With how you communicate her. This. Your child has nothing to do with how you communicate with her. And so the fact that you can admit that it's hard or, like, you're trying. Like, why do you have to try to, like, be comfortable with annoying her?
- [22:32]
Rachel
You know, I've asked that before. I thought maybe, like, there was something that happened that broke them up. Like, me. I was like, oh, maybe he really devastated her life at some point, and that's why he feels so guilty for the rest of time, he's just gonna do whatever she wants.
- [22:49]
Nick
I honestly don't think it's that deep. I honestly think that, like, as human beings, we Just, again, we'd rather have peace than not peace. Right? We would. You know, and it probably doesn't mean anything to him, and he's probably. It doesn't feel to him like it feels to you. That doesn't change the fact that he's old enough to just acknowledge that the optics and how you feel are more than justified. And just because he is more than comfortable with it doesn't make it, like, not weird. And it doesn't make it, like, less comfortable for you to deal with. And as a result of someone who claims to want to be in a committed, romantic relationship with you, he has to act accordingly and do what's best for the relationship he claims to want to be in. And he is not showing up for this relationship, in a way. And he is just. He is prioritizing, keeping the peace in his life rather than keeping the peace in his relationship, you know? And that is something you have the right to call him out on. At some point, you're just gonna have to, like, draw a line in the sand and be like, the fact that you are making. That you're drawing this out is a problem to me. And, like, I just, like, I need to know that I'm outside of your child, a top priority. But right now, sometimes I feel like she's still our priority. Like, because you know it's gonna upset me. And you do it anyways because you would rather upset me than not upset her. And honestly, when you put it like that, it's fucked up. And, like, how long do you. I'm not gonna keep just putting up with this, you know? But the point is, he doesn't see you going anywhere. And it's. Again, it's easier for him to upset you because you are clearly more gracious when you're upset than she is. And at the end of the day, that's probably why he does it.
- [24:46]
Rachel
I could see that. Yeah, probably so. Also, I've been through this same exact argument, conversation, whatever you'd like to call it. Half the time it's arguments. Half the time it's as calm as I can be. I don't know how to keep bringing it up without it sounding like I'm beating a dead horse every time. Because every time it just seems to result in, like, okay, yeah, it's not that deep. Okay, no, it is.
- [25:18]
Nick
Like, that's. That's. That's dismissive and kind of disrespectful to you for him to say it's not that deep. It's not about it being that Deep. It's just like, fine, I'll just start texting with another guy and then I'll tell you. Then I'll tell you. That's not that deep. Like, again, like, you don't. He doesn't get to tell you not to care, and he doesn't get to tell you to not feel weird about his ex. Casually, like, having a casual, open line of communication with you and texting you about anything at any time when it has literally nothing to do with the child. And he doesn't get to normalize that if he wants to be in a committed relationship with you and you just have to stick to your guns a little bit better and confidently tell him again to not be dismissive to your feelings, because he is. And again, he is prioritizing his peace over the peace of the relationship. It just. It's that simple. And I think you just have to not like, again, you seem like a lovely person. I can tell. Like, you know, it's like, you clearly, you've been willing to, like, have this confrontation. It doesn't seem like it's easy for you. And you don't always feel confident with your ability to feel the way you do and set a clear boundary and expectation. And I just want you to feel when you get off this call to, like, you're more than justified. You're not wrong. And, yeah, it's not resolved, so therefore you have the right to bring it up again. And he's dismissing your feelings. He is. By pretending it's some sort of complicated thing that he needs to work towards. It doesn't. Like, it shouldn't be that hard to go cold turkey. It might irritate her, it might upset her, but that's not his problem. And if she wants to confront him on it, he can just be like, honestly, he could play dumb, and he can be like, let me know when I can pick up my kid.
- [27:16]
Rachel
So.
- [27:17]
Nick
And he can sit down. And also he could be like, he can go to his ex partner and be like, listen, you know, she's my partner. She's my priority. Honestly, if you want to continue this, then you need to get to know her. And he needs to, like, advocate for you and he needs to stand up for you. And I'm guessing he hasn't done that. I'm guessing he kind of plays. No, I'm guessing he plays like, oh, I'm the outsider. What am I supposed to do? I'm just like. I'm just like the heartthrob. I'm in this weird. What am I supposed to do that? All these women want to have me in their orbit, you know, it's just like, I'm just trying to make everyone happy, you know, like, it's fucked up. Yeah. Like, it's not. He needs. You need to. He. You have the right to expect more from him in the situation. And you have to tell him, like, you're done being patient, and you have. He has to take you seriously. And you have to confidently, like, be like, yo, I'm just tired of pretending that this is normal. And I'm tired of acting like you need to try to not upset her. And that's what it comes down to.
- [28:20]
Rachel
I. And I feel like I've said exactly that before, but I. I bet.
- [28:25]
Nick
I'm guessing you haven't. I'm guessing you've done it in a way that's just a little bit more passive. And then you kind of ask for. You check in, be like, I just. Are you. Is that, you know, like, you're just really empathetic, and I think you're really considerate, and I think that has probably stopped you from being very direct because, again, there's a. There is a reason. And I don't think it's because he's in love with her. And I don't. I don't think it's that De. But, like, she. You want to blame her, but what she is doing differently than you is she is definitely making it more difficult for him to make it hard to disappoint her, and you are not making it as difficult, so you need to make it more difficult, you know? And so if you want to blame anyone, blame yourself. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's. It's honestly that simple. Like, you're. It's easier for him to. It's easier for him to handle you than handle her in a way. And it's. You should change that.
- [29:23]
Rachel
It's true. I think that what you're saying brings back the point that it's like, if this person has to. If. If my partner has to consider her feelings so much that, like, he's afraid to upset her. Yeah, it does make me feel a little less confident having to go to him and be like, this is the deal. Because obviously he keeps referring to her feelings so well.
- [29:50]
Nick
I mean, listen, you see what you're saying, It's a tough position, but you have to ask yourself, if this never changed, am I comfortable being in this relationship and constantly feeling like this? Do you want to feel like you're in second position? To someone's ex for the entirety of your relationship, or are you willing to put your foot down and take the risk that he won't ever change and threaten to leave and possibly create some distance and just let him know that you're tired of being patient on this particular topic. And if he wants to be with you, he has to start making you feel like a priority. And you're not asking him not to co parent and you're not asking him not to be respectful with his ex. You're just asking him to stop the inappropriate communication, which it's just a fact that it is. And it's not that hard, it's not that complicated. And he needs to man up a little bit. And I think you need to, like, check him on that and call him out on that.
- [30:49]
Rachel
Yeah, for sure I do. You are completely right.
- [30:53]
Nick
All right, that's helpful.
- [30:55]
Rachel
This is helpful. I've asked so many different types of people. I've had therapy about this. I've talked to my sister who is married with children. I've talked to my best friend who is married without children. And basically everyone agrees, like, the type of communication is inconsiderate and unnecessary. And I have every right to just say exactly that.
- [31:22]
Nick
So, I mean, I guess it is helpful. The big question is, I mean, it doesn't sound like I've said anything you haven't heard. Maybe in a different version, but what is stopping you from taking the advice from your friends, your peers, strangers, your therapist, and putting your foot down and stop. And just stop accepting it. You are accepting it.
- [31:44]
Rachel
Yeah.
- [31:46]
Nick
The reason why you talk to all these people is because you want that validation that you're not crazy. And you're not, but you keep allowing it to happen.
- [31:57]
Rachel
Yep. It's like a little. A little security, but back up. Like, I want to make sure I'm right. Yeah, you're right.
- [32:03]
Nick
Stop allowing it to happen. I mean, it's not going to change unless you do something about it. She's clearly not going to change. It seems unlikely he's going to change. And as long as he can have a cake and eat it too, because as humans, we all want it. You're going to have to put your foot down and you're going to have to be like, honestly, I'm so fucking tired of pretending this is normal. And it's. It's crazy that, like, I'm, like, that you're trying to massage this. Just fucking stop. Or like, I'm. Honestly, I'm done. I'm done.
- [32:35]
Rachel
Yeah, I need to do that. You're right. You're right. I just need to do it.
- [32:38]
Nick
And lose your shit a little bit.
- [32:42]
Rachel
Okay. I think I could do that. I can manage.
- [32:45]
Nick
All right. Keep me posted. It's. Keep me posted. But it's you. This is not going to change unless you do something about it. I mean, aren't you done? Aren't you tired of talking about it?
- [32:56]
Rachel
So freaking tired, man. So tired.
- [32:58]
Nick
So do something about it.
- [33:00]
Rachel
You're right.
- [33:01]
Nick
Because I do think you. You, while you're tired of it, you've. It's keeping you entertained.
- [33:09]
Rachel
I'm gonna do it.
- [33:10]
Nick
All right.
- [33:11]
Rachel
Thank you. I appreciate you being honest with me. I will. Thank you, Nick.
- [33:15]
Nick
You got this.
- [33:15]
Cassie
Bye. All right.
- [33:16]
Nick
Bye. Bye.
- [33:20]
Natalie
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- [35:10]
Nick
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- [36:48]
Cassie
Hey Nick, I'm Cassie, I'm 27 and my question is am I being dramatic or is it time to end my engagement?
- [36:57]
Nick
Why are you considering ending your engagement?
- [37:00]
Cassie
I just don't think I'm Happy, Honestly.
- [37:04]
Nick
And why don't you think you're happy? Do you feel like you're not happy, or do you feel like he doesn't make you happy, or you're not happy with him or the relationship? Is it you trying to figure out your happiness, or is there something specific about him in the relationship that makes you unhappy? You know? You know what I'm saying?
- [37:25]
Cassie
Yeah. No, I think it's.
- [37:28]
Nick
Can't say both. Which one is more?
- [37:31]
Cassie
It's probably him.
- [37:33]
Nick
Okay.
- [37:33]
Cassie
Like, I'm trying to be happy.
- [37:36]
Nick
Why? What. Where do you feel like he is falling short?
- [37:40]
Cassie
I think maybe it's just him as a whole.
- [37:43]
Nick
His existence. It's like his. Just his presence. Yeah, but. But trying to narrow it down.
- [37:51]
Cassie
Like, we haven't been together that long. It was great in the beginning.
- [37:55]
Nick
How long is not long?
- [37:57]
Cassie
Nine months.
- [37:59]
Nick
Okay. Okay. Yeah. So that's a. That's a quick engagement.
- [38:03]
Cassie
Yes. Yes, it was.
- [38:05]
Nick
I'm picking up a bit of a Southern accent. I don't know if you still live in that area.
- [38:08]
Cassie
I'm in Alabama.
- [38:09]
Nick
Okay. So culturally, like, a lot of people do get married young and move quickly in relationships. Did part of your reason of getting engaged have to do with like. Like, feeling pressure from your community or outside influences?
- [38:23]
Cassie
No, I think it was more like pressure with myself.
- [38:27]
Nick
Okay.
- [38:27]
Cassie
I've had, like, a kind of like, serial monogamy.
- [38:33]
Nick
What do you mean by that?
- [38:34]
Cassie
Just, like, jumping from one relationship to the next. I've never had, like, a long stretch of being single since.
- [38:41]
Nick
How long were you single before you met your fiance? Like, a month. Okay. All right. Yeah. How, like, so when you guys met, I mean, did you, like, was it just a. A typical whirlwind honeymoon phase? Were you giddy and Goo Goo Gaga or whatever? Is this your first engagement?
- [39:01]
Cassie
It is my first engagement.
- [39:02]
Nick
So what was different about this than all your other relationships?
- [39:07]
Cassie
We met. We went on a date. Our first date was, like, 14, 15 hours, and then it just kind of didn't go away after that. It was kind of like, inseparable.
- [39:17]
Nick
Like an infection?
- [39:18]
Cassie
Yeah, kind of. That sounds so bad.
- [39:24]
Nick
I mean, that's how you feel. It's harsh, but, yeah, it's.
- [39:26]
Cassie
I didn't feel that way to begin with, though, or else we probably would not have gotten here, so.
- [39:31]
Nick
Okay. Well, then how did you feel to begin with?
- [39:34]
Cassie
To begin with, it was great. I was like, this guy is, like, the best guy I've ever met. He's nice to me. He. This is about to sound bad. Like, he has a Job and a car and a home, and I myself, like, on my own do fine. So, like, I don't need someone for that.
- [39:50]
Nick
But you also don't want to date or get engaged to or marry someone. You have to parent either.
- [39:57]
Cassie
Yes. No, I don't want to parent, and I don't want to take care of someone.
- [40:01]
Nick
Are you physically attracted to your fiance?
- [40:04]
Cassie
I was.
- [40:06]
Nick
What changed?
- [40:08]
Cassie
Okay, so last month we went on a cruise together, and everything was fine. And then one night he says, I need you to drink more so you'll have sex with me. And I've not wanted to do anything with him since then.
- [40:21]
Nick
He said, I need you to drink more so you want to have sex with me?
- [40:25]
Cassie
Yes.
- [40:26]
Nick
Was he serious?
- [40:28]
Cassie
Yeah, I think so. It came off as serious.
- [40:30]
Nick
He wasn't goofing around.
- [40:33]
Cassie
It was wild. I didn't say anything in the moment, but I did bring it up.
- [40:37]
Nick
Did you guys have like, a lot of drunk sex in the past or something?
- [40:40]
Cassie
Not a lot.
- [40:41]
Nick
It sounds like he was feeling like your sex life had taken, like, a dip. A dip? Would that be accurate?
- [40:48]
Cassie
A little bit of one, but not anything crazy. We were probably still intimate a few times a week.
- [40:55]
Nick
So he gave you the ick, basically, when you.
- [40:57]
Cassie
Yeah, when he said that, for sure.
- [40:59]
Nick
Yeah. It is kind of an icky thing.
- [41:02]
Cassie
And I did. I brought that up to him like, two weeks ago. I was like, I have the ick.
- [41:05]
Nick
What do you say?
- [41:06]
Cassie
Well, he's just. We're working on it, so we'll see how that goes. It's not going well from. From this side of things.
- [41:14]
Nick
What do you. What do you mean? Did you address it? I mean, like, I don't. Because to be all in seriousness, like, definitely give you the ick, but it's like a. I'm sure he's a fine guy, but it's just like, you get women drunk so they sleep with you. It's giving a little creepy. Creepy. Yeah, I think is. Is the gentlest way to say that. And maybe he was joking. We say things that we don't realize in the moment how it might come across. Like, we've all said things that didn't land before. But yeah, I mean, to be honest, like, the. The solution to this specific thing in terms of, like, just, hey, that bothered me. You said that. And be like. Like, okay, now that you bring it up to me, I get why you feel that way. I shouldn't have said that. It was stupid. It didn't land. And then you can. And then if he feels that way, about your sex life. You know, you guys should. You know, he should be allowed to bring it up and you can disagree with. You could be like, I don't know, like, life happened and we're busy and, like, honestly, I'm comfortable with the frequency and blah, blah, blah. You know, there can be a back and forth. I'm not sure what. What are you guys working on when, like, what does that mean?
- [42:17]
Cassie
So when he said that to me, I didn't say anything in the moment. It took me a good few weeks to bring it up because it kind of just changed my perception of him as a whole.
- [42:28]
Nick
Okay.
- [42:28]
Cassie
I don't know. He kind of went from, like, this person that I thought, like, high character to, like, not so much. And in my head, I'm like, what if I marry this person? And, like, mask balls.
- [42:39]
Nick
Do you think this is more than him being a guy who said something stupid and didn't realize how it sounded and. And it was just a bad joke because people do do that all the time. Or do you think maybe you've been wrong about him? And again, this answer doesn't change whether you have the right to leave if you're not happy. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like, just, you know, at the end of the day, if you don't like him and he's not your guy, you can break up, you know, and if there's something telling you he's not your guy, no, that's not crazy. Talking to you for two minutes. There are some, like, call it data points. If this doesn't feel right, like, that's all you really need. You know, you've been. You've dated for nine months before you got engaged. You can acknowledge that, like, you've jumped from relationship to relationship. So, like, it's harder for you to trust, like, your real feelings. Like, how much of you being in a relationship is just, like, feeling the need to, like, have someone and be with someone. You choose the best available option at the time because, like, you haven't really leaned into, like, being alone and that discomfort. And now as you get older, you're recognizing maybe that patterning yourself and your conscious, subconscious brain, whatever, is making you realize that I'm settling a little bit. You maybe never, ever had this conversation, but there must be a part of you deep down that says, if I had the guts to be alone and be single and live in that discomfort, I might not be dating him or engaged to him, and I might be holding out for something that feels more special in my mind. Because, like, I don't know, I just feel like if you really loved him and you knew him in nine months isn't a great deal of time, but you can have a pretty good sense of someone's character. I feel like you should know the difference between something that didn't land and something that was like, yo, I don't think you realize how that comes across, but I know you're a good guy, so, like, just stop. Don't ever say that again. The boys say dumb things a lot, and I think us guys don't often put ourselves in the perspectives of how that comes across to women. Doesn't make what he said any less weird. But you should know, I think inside, whether he deserves the benefit of the doubt or you should look at him differently. And the question you have to ask yourself, is this an excuse to look at him differently because deep down you just don't like him that much?
- [45:05]
Cassie
Yeah, no, ultimately, I don't think that he's a, like, a bad person. That said that, I do think that it was supposed to be a joke and it did not land. Maybe, but. But I think that might just be, like, me saying that I don't. Maybe I don't know who he is. Me trying to make an excuse for not liking him.
- [45:26]
Nick
Yeah, that's the vibe you're given. Giving me. You don't have a hard time being in a committed relationship. So this is not like, oh, I always do this every time it gets serious.
- [45:37]
Cassie
Yeah.
- [45:38]
Nick
So in your most comfortable state, you're feeling uncomfortable, and that's not a good sign for you. It might be a good sign that you are maturing and becoming more self aware about what you actually need. And now you are learning how to listen to yourself in a way that feels a little uncomfortable.
- [45:57]
Cassie
That makes sense. So, like, what do I do? I don't know how to do that.
- [46:00]
Nick
Let's assume the breakup's not so bad. He's like, all right, cool. How would you feel? Does that give you relief? Like, what are you most afraid of? Being alone, Breaking his heart, or, you
- [46:13]
Cassie
know, being wrong, Being wrong, making the wrong decision.
- [46:17]
Nick
You think there's a chance you could be wrong?
- [46:19]
Cassie
Yeah.
- [46:19]
Nick
Oh, okay. Well, that's. That's kind of a big deal. Why do you think there's a chance you could be wrong?
- [46:24]
Cassie
Because he's very good to me. And he's like, I think he's probably a good person. So, like, would it be the wrong decision? I don't want to make the wrong decision because I tend to do that.
- [46:36]
Nick
Does he treat you better than your past boyfriends in a way that almost feels, like, not as exciting or something? Like, you know, is there a little bit of that element?
- [46:44]
Cassie
We don't fight ever, which is weird.
- [46:47]
Nick
What do you think you should fight about?
- [46:50]
Cassie
Maybe not so much, like, fight about it. When we first originally met, he was like, I eventually want kids. And I was like, okay, I'm undecided. Okay, I'm leaning more towards no. And I told him that the other day, and he said, well, that will be okay, but is that okay? I feel like it's not.
- [47:09]
Nick
How old is he?
- [47:11]
Cassie
30.
- [47:12]
Nick
I don't know. I mean, maybe he doesn't give a shit. I don't know. I mean, I do think the conversation around, like, having kids and not having kids has gotten kind of weird.
- [47:22]
Cassie
It's kind of weird. How so?
- [47:25]
Nick
It's. And I'm obviously biased. As someone who enjoys being a dad, I strongly believe if you don't want to have kids, no one should try to convince you to have kids. I think society, before people are even considering having kids, is telling you all the reasons why you shouldn't have kids. Expensive. It's difficult, it's hard. It's there and change your life and blah, blah, blah, you know? And I think 30 years ago, there was this built in, like, hey, like, expectation of, like, that's part of. Part of life is, you know, growing up, falling in love and having a family. And there's definitely exceptions to that rule. But, like, that was a big part of people's lives and sense of purpose, you know, not all of it, but, like, that was a big driving force. I mean, like, some. Like Natalie and I later the other night, we're having a conversation like, what the fuck would we do if we didn't have. I mean, and it's difficult and it's hard, and river takes up all our time. But, like, like, you know, after we've been together for several years now, it's like, well, if we just, like, would we just, like, go to random fucking parties? Like, what would we do at this stage of our relationship? Of, like, we. I guess maybe travel more. But, like, I think we would. Just for us, it would lack some purpose. This is not why you called. It's just more. I agree with you that it's. It's like, it should be a big deal. And I do think people should have a strong sense of why they're giving whatever answer they're giving. You know, if you're someone who's like, I used to not want to have kids, but I might be open to it, then fine. I just think there's a lot of people like you two where you're more a little bit like, sure about what you don't want. And he seems to be slightly more on the fence, but neither of you have a strong opinion. And I think that part is weird. I don't know. But that's doesn't mean me, right? It just makes. I just have a strong opinion. I think it's interesting that you think he should have a strong opinion. And maybe you're right about that.
- [49:15]
Cassie
Well, I feel like if you want kids, then you, like, want kids.
- [49:19]
Nick
Well, I guess my point is, is that I think society, when it comes to people your guys's age, and he's not that young, has made it very like it used to be the expectation to have kids. And so if you were on the fence, it was easy to have a I want kids because you felt supported by society. And I think nowadays it's become even like almost like the minority opinion of people who are like, I definitely want to have kids. So it could be. I could see a world where maybe he, deep down he does, but he almost feels weird to say that. And everyone around him says they don't want to have kids. And then here, the person he loves or is engaged with wants to doesn't want to have kids. So he's like, yeah, sure, it. I don't want to have kids because there's not enough people around him being like, like, listen, man, kids are hard. It will change your life. There's a lot of like. But like, you will, it'll. You will never find a greater purpose, you know, Like, I don't know how many people are saying that to him. And it's like, oh, yeah, purpose. That's kind of a big deal. Like, I, you know, it's tough because nowadays I think being young is hard. I think it's more and more and more difficult. I think 20 years ago, people in their 20s were graduated from college and they found a job where they could support themselves and a partner and a family. And now that's just not the case. Economic. And now you have. You have people enter early adult life in their 20s and society tells them to, like, you know, still be young and still be a kid. And like, your 20s are your new teenage years. And all of a sudden we years go by, we're like, I'm 25, I haven't accomplished anything. And if you're a guy in his 30s who doesn't like who hasn't found his purpose career wise. That feels a very unsettling, you know, I don't know what I want to do and like, I guess, you know, whatever. And so I do think it's a lot harder to be younger and think about the possibility of having kids because everything around changed and there's just a lot less stability. So I empathize with that. It's. It's a challenge right now. He could still be sent searching for that purpose for himself. And I think some, again, a lot of people are just aren't having the conversations that sometimes kids are. Are that purpose. Like I was bored not because my, my parents both had these careers and they were ready to start a family. It was more like they got married and had kids and then they were poor as. And my mom stayed home, my dad worked and they just figured it the out, you know. And that's how it used to be. Now it's very different now everyone needs a plan for, for parenthood. Anyway. I don't know if that was anyway helpful at all or, or even welcomed because you didn't ask. But listen, I. It's interesting that you have a strong point of view about his opinions about not having kids. Once again, you need to ask yourself, is that you just trying to come up with an excuse to not like him or does it, does it deep down the guy you've gotten to know, does it feel like he's not being true to himself and that bothers you and that speaks to like, you know, non negotiables and wanting different things.
- [52:14]
Cassie
Yeah, it definitely seemed like the way he talked about it originally is that he really wanted kids and now it's just like, okay, a little bit.
- [52:23]
Nick
I hear you. I do think like, I do think it's, it's become less weird to be like yours or fiance because of the conversations that society has around having kids these days.
- [52:36]
Cassie
Yeah. But also it could just be making me making another excuse or trying to. Anyway, what we talked about when we talked about the, the cruise and the conversation on the vacation is that we were gonna like just take some time to see if we could get back to the way we were before we went on the cruise. Because since then, like, I don't want to like touch him in any way, shape, form or fashion.
- [53:05]
Nick
Okay. So I mean, it's just like, it kind of just sounds like you don't like them.
- [53:11]
Cassie
Yeah.
- [53:13]
Nick
You know, why does it sound bad? You're, you're right not to like them
- [53:17]
Cassie
because I did or at Least I thought I did.
- [53:21]
Rachel
Maybe I did.
- [53:21]
Nick
I mean, you liked them early on. That's fine. And maybe it was a change of pace and I don't know, maybe. Maybe four weeks was too long for you to be single, and it was just like he was the first nice guy to show up. And that just doesn't feel right right now. And it was easier for you to lie to yourself about your feelings towards people than it is now. As a, you know, someone who's more comfortable in her own skin and more emotionally mature. Maybe you're just learning from past mistakes. You know, it could be that. Yeah, I. I think deep down you know the answer. I can't give you the answer. But, like, you know, you can. You can have these million conversations and there's not going to be a clear. I can't give you a clear answer. The only one who knows the answer is, you know, deep in your gut. And he can be a nice guy and a respectful guy, you know, it doesn't have to be. Doesn't mean he's your guy. And the kids thing aside, you know, the question is, it's like, do you feel like he. You want to know that you have a partner and Partner. And being in a committed relationship and being. Having a partnership is like, not be at each other's throats, but, like, knowing that, like, they can stand up to you and that, like, if they don't agree with you, that you will hear that point of view so that you can work through it. And maybe that includes a disagreement or two here or there, but you want to feel like you have a partner and you don't want to feel like you can kind of get away with anything, because even though sometimes that's fun in the short run, we want that kind of equality in a relationship. So maybe it's that, like. Listen, I guess what I'm saying is, is it's not bad. You didn't do anything wrong. It's not a crime to want to end an engagement. It's definitely a tough conversation. It's uncomfortable. But you're not crazy for realizing you don't like someone. So you don't need to come up with excuses to why it's okay for you to end this relationship if that's what you're trying to do. You're not going to be a bad guy. You're not a total bitch. He might be upset with you. He might say things that sound harsh and hasty, but, like, listen, like, you're gonna hurt his feelings, and that's okay. But you don't need to explain it to the world. And no one's. You know what I'm saying? Like, you didn't do anything wrong. As someone who's been engaged before and it didn't work out. Like, no one likes to have been. Like, I used to be engaged, but no one gives a shit. And, like, it's honestly not that uncommon anymore. So in terms of feeling like you have a scarlet letter or a label or you have to explain it, no one cares. And that's certainly not a reason to be in a relationship. So just decide what you want. There's no wrong answer. You don't need to come up with a justification.
- [56:04]
Cassie
Yeah, no, I think I do know the answer.
- [56:07]
Nick
Well, I would rip off the band Aid as soon as possible.
- [56:13]
Paige
My goodness. Okay.
- [56:15]
Nick
And when you do it, it. You can be direct, but be kind. You don't need to, like. You don't need to make them feel like a creep. I wouldn't bring up some of these excuses. I would just be like, listen, I just. I just don't see it. I don't. I don't see it. And I. You know, if you want to, like, I don't think it's going to be productive, me saying a bunch of things that, like, I think. But at the end of the day, I don't see it and I don't feel it, and I don't think this is what I want.
- [56:43]
Cassie
Yeah,
- [56:46]
Nick
it's tough. But you'll be okay. Yeah, you'll be all right. You can get through it.
- [56:51]
Cassie
Yeah, maybe so.
- [56:54]
Nick
No, definitely. You can definitely get through it. Sounds like you'll be free, you know? Like, this is a weight on your shoulder. You're not supposed to feel this way when you're engaged.
- [57:03]
Cassie
Yeah, no, you're. You're not.
- [57:05]
Nick
Probably it's weighing on you. It's sucking up your energy, and I understand. Like, the breakup sounds scary, but, like, honestly, it's just. It's. It's not going to be as hard as. As you're telling yourself it is, and you'll be fine.
- [57:17]
Paige
Okay.
- [57:18]
Nick
All right.
- [57:19]
Cassie
All right.
- [57:19]
Nick
Good luck.
- [57:21]
Cassie
Thanks.
- [57:22]
Nick
You're. You're not even wearing your ring.
- [57:24]
Cassie
No, I'm not.
- [57:28]
Nick
Yeah, I. I, like, just shut it down.
- [57:30]
Cassie
You know, to be fair, I don't wear it most of the time. I only wear it when I go out.
- [57:34]
Nick
It's because you. It's because you hate them and you don't want to make them feel bad. I'm just kidding. I mean, I'm not kidding, but, like, I Think, you know, I just. Yeah, listen, like, you're just. You're not doing him any favors by convincing yourself he's worse of a person than he actually is. He's just not your guy.
- [57:50]
Paige
Gotcha.
- [57:51]
Nick
All right.
- [57:52]
Cassie
All right.
- [57:53]
Nick
Good luck out there.
- [57:55]
Cassie
Thanks.
- [57:55]
Nick
All right.
- [57:56]
Cassie
Congrats on the girls.
- [57:57]
Nick
I appreciate you. Keep us posted on how this breakup goes. I'd love to hear it for sure. All right.
- [58:04]
Cassie
Thank you.
- [58:05]
Nick
All right. Bye. Bye.
- [58:08]
Natalie
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- [59:22]
Nick
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- [60:30]
Paige
Hi, my name is Paige. I'm 22, and I'm questioning whether my work ethic is ruining my relationship with my clingy boy friend.
- [60:38]
Nick
Okay, tell me more about it.
- [60:40]
Paige
Okay, so I guess I'll start kind of how we started dating. So I'm from California, and right after high school, I moved to Oregon for college and moved there alone. Like, was super ready to, like, get out. I've always been super independent, so did that and went through sorority recruitment, so met a bunch of my friends that way. My boyfriend was in a fraternity there as well, so we were in the kind of brand in the same crowd, but not really, like, super friendly with each other yet. Fast forward to senior year. I had gone to Ireland for study abroad in my junior year, and he had gone to Spain, and I went alone. He went with a bunch of friends, and he's from Oregon, so that was kind of the craziest thing he had ever done, like, because he was like an hour away from home the whole time he was in college. And then when he went to Spain, he was with all of his buddies. So it was like, independent but not super super. And so senior year, we get back to school, we start dating. And then it got pretty serious. My sister lived in Nashville, and I didn't have a place that I specifically wanted to be after college. And so I was like, screw it, I'll just move, kind of. That was my whole plan, like, throughout the year. So towards the end of the year, we're kind of talking about, like, if we're going to keep dating after college and all of that. I really loved his family, like, loved him, was super invested. And so he was like, I think I want to come to Nashville with you. And I was like, that's. That's like, would be great. But I've always been, like, terrified of that pressure of, like, I don't want you to move here for me. Like, I never want to feel like I have that much responsibility on myself. I guess I'm a little bit afraid of that in terms of commitment. Like, the last time I had a boyfriend was in high school. All throughout college, I was like, don't want it. Want to experience my own life. And so I made that very clear when we moved. Like, you are not moving here for me. Like, I would love for you to come, but it needs to be, like, because you want. Want that. So I moved here in July. He moves out here in September. He had an internship over the summer, so stayed in Oregon. I was living with my sister at the time, before I moved into our apartment in September. Having a great time. Loved it. Moved here to have a job in the mental health field. So I was a case manager at a mental health cooperative. It was really heavy. Wasn't really happy with my 9 to 5, but, like, was going through it, all of that stuff. And then he moved out here. Continue with that. I decided to leave the job, like, kind of right as he moved in. So it was kind of an interesting transition for me. When he moved in, he was unemployed for about the first, like, three months that we were here. Which at first I was like, oh, it's fine. Like, he's. He was looking for a job in supply chain logistics. Like, that can't be that hard to find. He was searching for jobs. But over time, I realized he wasn't really looking for jobs at all. Like, he was just kind of hanging out on the couch every day while I went to work. I decided to leave the nine to five. I've always been like, I'm never gonna leave something without having a plan. So got a job as a hostess. Love it. Then I get a second job at a infrared sauna, cold plunge studio. So do that also. So I'm working those two jobs. Loving it, though, because I'm getting to meet people that are actually my own age. So, like, honestly, that was the best thing for me. Like, I'm making way less money, but couldn't have been happier with, like, my social situation.
- [63:59]
Nick
Meanwhile, he's couch surfing and saying he can't find a job.
- [64:02]
Paige
Job. Yes. So it was like, at first I was like, well, you know, it's the first time he's away from home. Like, he's never really been this far away from his parents or his friends. All of his friends. Like, he.
- [64:15]
Nick
What is that?
- [64:16]
Paige
Birth?
- [64:16]
Nick
What does that have to do with that?
- [64:20]
Paige
I. I don't know. I feel Like, I was just kind of like, maybe he just needs time to, like, settle and, like, get comfortable. And he was like, I just want to see Nashville. Like, I just want to get to know the area before I, like, get sucked into a job and, like, can never see anything. I was like, okay, fair.
- [64:35]
Nick
I mean, sounds like I'm. I'm guessing even that despite having two jobs, you get to explore Nashville and. And meet people and have a life. Like, there are 24 hours in a day.
- [64:47]
Paige
Yeah.
- [64:48]
Nick
And even if you work 10 hours a day, there's still 14 hours, you know?
- [64:52]
Paige
Yeah.
- [64:53]
Nick
And I assume you sleep for. You get a good night of sleep events. Wait still a couple hours to. And he has no job, so how much money does he have to go explore? But that's. That's a couple hours a day he could get out of the house and anyway, continue.
- [65:10]
Paige
Well, to your point, though, like, he also never had a job, like, consistent job throughout college. Like, I was always employed all throughout college because, like, my parents were like, we'll help you with your school.
- [65:20]
Nick
But does his parents. His parents have money?
- [65:24]
Paige
They have, like, a decent amount of money. They don't live, like, super lavishly, but they love, like, vacations, big things like that. So they, like, they like to spend.
- [65:33]
Nick
And they can afford to support him, it sounds like.
- [65:37]
Paige
Yes. Yes. So he would have, like, some, like, little summer jobs, but he never had, like. I don't know, like, he never had a crazy work ethic, I guess, is my point. And I grew up with a dad that, like, worked his ass off. And so I. I think I'm. It's kind of unattractive to me when I don't see that kind of drive in my partner.
- [65:57]
Nick
Yeah.
- [65:59]
Paige
Sounds like giving you the ick a little bit. Yeah. So I'm working those two jobs. He finally gets a job. Actually, my coworker had said, like, oh, my gosh, he's in supply chain. Like, tell him to look into this company. He does. Goes to the interview process. They're going through a couple interview processes. And at that point. Point it was all. It was kind of bizarre. Like, he would, like, go through him and be like, yeah, but I'm not really interested. And be like, why not? And he's. I. It was.
- [66:28]
Nick
That's crazy. That's crazy.
- [66:30]
Paige
Yeah. Yeah. So he had this, like, confidence. It almost, like, I know that I can get a better job than that, all this stuff, because his dad's in sales, and he takes him through. Like, he's a very confident person, and he kind of takes off. Yes.
- [66:43]
Cassie
And.
- [66:44]
Paige
And his dad, they're very similar. And so I think that because of, like, all the people and men that he's been around, he has like, this confidence without having the kind of pedigree to back it. Like, he just hasn't done, like, you haven't done anything that your dad's done. Like, because dad is a hard worker. So that always kind of bothered me. And then he's going through these interview processes and is like, I think that I can do better. And I'm like, but you don't have any, like, history that you have done. So, like.
- [67:10]
Nick
Well, first of all, first of all, like, okay, so here's where I think you could tweak your messaging to him if that's what you want to do. Do. He also just might not be your guy. It's like, what he's missing is like, I don't. Maybe, maybe if he keeps waiting, he could find something that he deems better. I mean, that's not, it's not impossible. Right? The question is, how long is that going to take him? And then what experience could he be getting now? Whether it's like a hosting job or something in supply chain even, he wants to do sales. Like, there's experiences he can learn. He can learn how to be in a corporate environment. He can learn things that he's. He thinks he, he is beneath him and he's. And, and what he's missing out on right now is just like getting experience and getting work. And there's a lot of people who enter the workforce and their first job is not what they hope or expected. And then they, you know, a lot of times within your first year, I, I hated my first job. I left it after nine months. And that was, like, kind of scary. I'm like, oh, I'll go move my resume and blah, blah, blah, blah. But, like, I got good experience. I also learned what I didn't want to fucking do, you know?
- [68:17]
Cassie
And.
- [68:18]
Nick
And he is not getting that experience in the pursuit of something better. I found something better. I mean, at least I tried. It took me a couple times. But he is not learning about what he actually likes and not likes. He is assuming what he likes and doesn't like and then deciding what's better or not. And he has no fucking clue what he actually likes. I mean, he's never really worked in this space. And he's, he has a deluded and delusional kind of perspective of what it likes to be in the workforce. So when he says it's not about debating and arguing with him whether he's going to find something better because you're kind of daring him to prove you wrong. But what is undeniable is that he is missing out on some really good experiences and an opportunity to a make money me. And if I were you, I would definitely call him out on like, listen, how old is he?
- [69:19]
Paige
23.
- [69:21]
Nick
You're 23 and your parents support you. That's kind of a nick. It's a nick and like the fact that you don't want to do something about it and you don't want to like get a job, whether it's being a host or waiting tables or picking up fucking garbage or whatever it is. I would be, be honestly more into that because like you're earning that and you're, it's a, it's a work ethic thing and you're comfortable taking your parents hard earned money so you can be lazy and that's an ick. And if that doesn't bother you, maybe that's where doesn't. You're not my person. I mean like, you just, you know, listen, it's one of those things where you don't want to baby your boyfriend, you don't want to parent your boyfriend. But the fact that you are avoiding some of these direct conversations and like you can do it in a way that's direct and not necessarily harsh, you know, but like it is the truth. And sometimes these boys need to hear some direct feedback for them to become men. And you need to find out real fast whether he's even capable of doing it. Don't marry the loser. You know, like it's, you know, I'm guessing what feels a little uncomfortable for you is like, it's a mindset thing and I think your instincts are right. I mean, I mean I joke with my employees that like I, I never, I've never seen any of their resumes. You know, there's that other people in my, on my team do, but by the time I meet them, I, I don't give a shit. And some of the best hires I've made, it's because they like told me they, in between college and their quote unquote real job, they worked at Trader Joe's or they worked as a barista at Starbucks and they were in the fire and it was a shitty job. But like they were willing to do that to make ends meet. And to me that has been some of the best indicators about someone's work ethic and their talents as an employee. And I think you can apply the same principles that, you know, you're a go getter, you're a hard worker. And being a hard worker, you have respect for what you've accomplished and you're proud of it as you should be. And it's hard to be in love with someone or have a committed relationship when you kind of like don't respect their grind or lack thereof. And then the obvious question is, like, if I marry this person, am I always going to have to be their fucking cheerleader? Am I always gonna have to motivate them? What happens when you have kids? How helpful are they going to be? You want someone who's willing to raise their hand and say, how can I help?
- [71:46]
Paige
Yeah.
- [71:47]
Nick
And he is. Doesn't sound like that kind of guy.
- [71:50]
Paige
Yeah. And like, I feel like I'm like ragging on him through all this and I'm not trying to, like, he's a good, he obviously has good traits.
- [71:58]
Nick
I'm sorry. As well. And charming. In the life of the. Yeah, this is not about. He's popular and cool or whatever and he might be capable of growing up. My point is, if you want to stay in this relationship, if it's like you're only 22, so then make sure you ask yourself, what are my relationship goals? Your goals can change. But as a motivated 22 year old who likes to work and wants to prioritize, I don't know, maybe marriage and kids isn't on the table for the next five or six, six years. And at the end of the day, maybe what's the point of still investing in something where it's just like, you know, even if I marry him, like, not going to be forever, I don't know. Those are fair questions to ask yourself. In the meantime, while you are with him, it's important that you figure out whether he has the ability to like, check himself, make some moves, hear your feedback and want to prove to himself and to you that he can grind, grind. He can grind. He can do the uncomfortable things because life is not comfortable and we don't always have mommy and daddy to take care of us.
- [73:04]
Paige
Yeah. And when he moved out, like, and moved here, they're not helping him anymore. But he, and he did get a job at a supply chain logistics place, works 9 to 5. But like, for example, like, it was just, there's things that just, I think it starts, you know, with work ethic and all that. And then it's just like, you pile on after a while and like, I set up the Internet insurance, I pay for all of those bills, he venmoes me for them. Like, I just, we split it 50 50, but like I've just set everything up. I found the apartment like, and he's like, whatever you need, I'll help you out.
- [73:36]
Nick
But like, what's his thing? Like, what's his thing?
- [73:40]
Paige
He helps with the cat. Like, literally he helps with the cat.
- [73:43]
Rachel
Like, he'll.
- [73:43]
Paige
I don't take out the litter. He does that.
- [73:45]
Nick
And you don't have to ask.
- [73:47]
Paige
No, I don't have to ask him.
- [73:48]
Nick
So his, his thing is, is the cat. That's it?
- [73:52]
Paige
Yeah.
- [73:52]
Nick
That's his only thing?
- [73:54]
Paige
Yeah, like he's like handy. He helps out with like stuff around the house. But like, I don't know. A big point of contention in our relationship more recently is just like the amount of hours I've been working. And now I am transitioning from that hostess position to a full time cocktail server. And so I'm starting a new job. And I was kind of between staying at the restaurant and moving to a server there or starting this new job, I was kind of being pulled in both directions. And, and when I asked what he thought I should do, he was like, well, when will you be home? More like, which job? And I'm like, that is so not what I needed to hear. Like, because he just wants me to be home more like, that's like all like, he just. And I'm like, dude, like, I want, I need to make money. But also like, he just hates that I work so much and like the days that I have off, like I've been.
- [74:43]
Nick
His sense of urgency. Is this different than yours? There is clearly there's something about, about, you know, I, I didn't grow up with a lot of money. I mean, I had a great childhood. But like, you know, I grew up with a scarcity mindset. You know, I grew up with how my parents, you know, that they had a fear of constantly how are we going to make ends meet? And I think I don't know what your childhood was like, but for me I like, you know, it's things I, you know, we'll have to work on or whatever. But like, I honestly I would take that over the, the alternative because that has allowed me to grind and, and, and have some urgency and not take things for granted. And it sounds like, you know, your, your boyfriend has a default of like, listen, the day I'm going to be okay, you know, because like it's, he's always been okay and he's never really been like In a position where he's wondered, like, are we going to be okay? And it's always. It's always worked out for him.
- [75:40]
Paige
Yeah.
- [75:40]
Nick
And, yeah, that's hard to change, you know? But I guess what I'm saying is if you're young. So, like, I don't. I don't think you need. You don't need to break up with this guy. Like, you don't need to be hasty. I do think you need to not feel bad about how you feel about this situation and not apologize for prioritizing yourself and your career. And be willing to. To check him a little bit and challenge him and see how he responds. Is he up for the challenge?
- [76:14]
Paige
So we had our first conversation about, like, all of this. Cause I've been saying this for a long time, and my sister actually helped me out because she. Him and her don't really like each other. So my sister lives in Nashville, and she's basically like, he gets to see you all the time. Like, I never actually get to hang out with you. Cause your days off, you're always with him. And he's like, the same with her. Like, your days off. Like. Like, don't hang out with her. Like, hang out with me. So it's always an issue with them. But I was, like, telling her on these things, vocalizing it, and she's like, just to him. Because my final straw, like, this past week was I got home from work one night, had a really long day, and he was like, do you want to go to the movies? Because he's been reading the new Hail Mary book, and he wanted to go see it. And I was like, oh, yeah, but maybe not tonight. Like, maybe tomorrow. He's like, okay, cool. So the next day, I'm at work, I get a Venmo request for half of the movie tickets. Make it. And I was like, I can't. Because, like, we have been having an issue with Venmo requests before. Like, I split the bill. Everything split. Like, it's always a Venmo request. It's so annoying. So that was, like, my final straw. I was like, I can't. And so I declined it. And Smooth.
- [77:24]
Nick
Yeah.
- [77:25]
Paige
Yeah. I have a screenshot of the text. It was basically he texted and said, why'd you decline my mineral request? And I was like, like, because you asked me if I go into the movies last night. Like, blah, blah, blah. Like, I don't want to pay. And he was like, here's. His response was. That's how it's always been. Like, when has it not been like that.
- [77:42]
Nick
And I was like, starting today.
- [77:44]
Paige
No. Yeah. So I. Well, I was just basically like, no, it has, but I. I hate it. And that's all I said. And so I was just very prepared to have a conversation when we got home. So we had a conversation and I noted some of, like, his points and my points because I wanted to tell my. My sister this happened because I was like, and I need to remember this because I can very easily be swayed when people make me feel bad. So I'm like, remember the conversation.
- [78:07]
Nick
I love that you took notes of your argument.
- [78:10]
Paige
Yeah. So a lot of the things that he was saying was that, like, that one. One main point for me was like, I told you not to move here for me. Like, this wasn't for me. Like, you're supposed to move here because this is a new start for you too.
- [78:22]
Nick
Did he bring that up? Why did you. Why did you feel the need to bring that up?
- [78:26]
Paige
Because we had been going back and forth with, like, money and things like that. And I think he just made a point of, like, we were supposed to move here and, like, spend time together and, like, we never see each other. And I was just kind of like, I told you not to move here for me. I told you to move here for, like, just because this worked for both of us and like, all these things. And he was like, I moved here for us.
- [78:50]
Nick
But. But that's couple things. One, I think you could strengthen your argument by it's not about the moving, but I do think you can call them out on the what I moved here for us. I'm like, that's you trying to be romantic isn't going to change my mind. The point is you, like, I made this clear because I never wanted you to be able to throw it in my face that where you live is, you know, you don't get to use that as a reason for you being unhappy and, and expecting more of me. You can expect more from me because, you know, there's things in our relationship, but, like, what I'm hearing is I have no friends. I have nothing better to do, so I expect you to hang out with me. Second of all, this is not about you. It's about making a life for himself outside of this relationship where it's. It sounds like he's chosen not to do.
- [79:39]
Paige
He has hang out with friends at work more recently, and, like, he's having fun with that. So I'm. I'm really actually very happy for him. But the thing that sucks is that, like, for like, I feel bad because when he leaves, leaves, I'm so happy if I know that I'm coming home from work and no one's going to be at our apartment. And like, that's been like my more recent like, epiphany, like, oh, I probably shouldn't be in a relationship because like,
- [80:02]
Nick
maybe, maybe it's a relationship or maybe like at 22 years old, you shouldn't be living with this guy. You know, there is that like you can be in a relationship and, and take it slow and get to know each other and, and again, like, the challenge is like, you know, you know, 30 years ago, being 22 and in love, love made a lot of sense and, and people settled down and had kids. And that's just not how a lot of people are rolling these days. So nowadays it's like you're 22 and you're like, I don't know, you know, 20. Late, later, mid to late 20s maybe. I want to like, get married and have kids. So like, that's five years of potentially dating someone that isn't going to have a ton of, of of progress. Especially if you choose to like, move really fast in the back beginning, which is to say to move into with each other and play house and like moving in with. In a relationship sooner than it needs to happen is going to create these feelings like you're feeling now, which might tell you, which might give you incomplete information. Again, there's a lot of things going on with your relationship, but if, if everything else was great, right?
- [81:06]
Paige
Yeah.
- [81:06]
Nick
Maybe he wasn't like this kind of, kind of lazy, giving loser a little bit. I'm being harsh, but if all, all you were feeling like is like, oh my God, he's just always there could just mean that like you're, you're just not ready to like, live with someone that in your independent. Still young, I moved to a new city, I got my sister and like, you want to have a little bit of both. Like, it could just mean that and he could be a guy who again, if other things were equal and was also as equally as motiv as you were with work and prioritize having friends. Now that could present other challenges that could present challenges of you guys feeling like, hey, you know, like, let's just make sure we're still coming back to each other and you know, I'm glad you're making friends and I'm making friends, but like that, that, you know, that that, that can create problems and distractions and temptations and, and things like that. So there's there's no path that doesn't take work in a relationship. But at least that path would be more in line with the lifestyle you want. Like you're living a path right now where he's just like there, he's just comfortable with existing. And again, I don't. You know what, what are your relationship plans? I mean, you live with this guy.
- [82:22]
Paige
Yeah.
- [82:22]
Nick
So what do you guys want for each other?
- [82:26]
Paige
Well, like when, when we were still in college, like I was so like I can totally marry this dude. Like I love his family, like really love him. Like we're so good.
- [82:35]
Nick
What if you don't want to get married till you're 30?
- [82:38]
Paige
Well, so that's how I am. That's the thing. So I've always been super independent and I'm like, I don't want to have kids until I've done all the, that I want to do. Like his parents got married super young. His mom's like, she's sweet but she's just like a housewife. So she doesn't. Which is being a mom is a full time job, very hard. But she doesn't have her own like things going on. So she's always been super involved in her kids lives, which is great. But sometimes it gets to a certain extent where it's a little bit helicopter parent and she's like that with I
- [83:07]
Nick
would say unsolicited feedback. Yeah. You're only 22, so go live your life, have fun. I don't think and having kids has to end that, you know. Now n. Wasn't the host of a Netflix show before she had kids. Now she is true. You know, again it, it does change things. No doubt. It is harder. There are a ton of sacrifices.
- [83:33]
Paige
Yeah.
- [83:33]
Nick
You have to make this. Just make no mistake about that. But it is not, you know, you, you.
- [83:40]
Paige
Yeah, I, I guess to rephrase, I am not ready to not be selfish is like my thing. Like I want to be selfish for as long as possible because I like what I got going on. But. Yeah, but my big issue is now I'm just like in a weird spot where we had this like big long time talk. He was crying a lot and he was crying. Yeah, he cried a lot. And he just like he, he just was basically expressing. Well, he was expressing that he just like doesn't feel wanted by me and like I never want to be home and I'm always like at the gym or like grocery shopping or like running my errands, like doing my meal prep, whatever it be and like I don't give him enough attention. And, like, when I get home from work, I'm just tired, and I've been working for nine hours. I'm just like, I just want to eat and go to sleep, and I get home and give him a kiss. But, like, he wants me to, like, lay on the bed with for like, 15 minutes and just, like, sit there and I'm like, I'm hungry, I'm uncomfortable. I want to go to bed. And so that's been kind of a point of contention. And we just. Honestly, we aren't really having sex anymore either because I'm just not interested. And so he just doesn't feel wanted. And so he was crying a lot about that, but I just, like, wasn't emotional. And then the only time that I did get emotional was when I was saying, I just don't know if I could be the partner that you need. Where I'm at right now in my life, I just don't know if I can give you as much attention as. As you need. And I. I like, you deserve someone that can do that. And I just don't know if I could do that. And then I asked him if. If he's happy with our situation and, like, thinks that we can work on it or if he kind of thinks that he would be happier if he was single, because I'm obviously causing him a lot of hurt. And his response was, I think that you would be happy that single. Is he right after the fact? I think so, but I didn't say that. And I probably should have said it in different words because I feel like I wasn't being completely honest, but I was just like, no, I wouldn't necessarily be happy or single. They're just like, I'm just so busy right now.
- [85:46]
Nick
You can still say it. And it takes sometimes. Sometimes it takes time to process and think about your feelings.
- [85:54]
Paige
Yeah, I don't know where to go from here.
- [85:57]
Nick
Well, maybe nowhere. Maybe it is an end. But again, this is a compatibility situation. This is not. You and I can have opinions about what we think he should do or what we think he's not doing. There's some even potential love languages. Maybe he really likes physical touch and that's not your fake favorite love language. But also, like, again, there's a level of he would be less needy and he would be feeling less invalidated by you or. Or the quality time you're not spending if he had more of a purpose in drive and, and. And. And needing to prove to himself, like, what he you know, what's his drive? Like, what, What? Like, the. It's the part that. That he's so comfortable with hanging out and not having a job. It's just like, kind of your first couple jobs is not supposed to be your dream job. You're not supposed to pick your first couple jobs almost because you think you're worthy of it, or it's like you're paying. That's about experience. It's about learning what you like and don't like so that you can hopefully obtain your dreams and job. I. You know, maybe. Maybe you want to be a waitress your entire career. Probably not, right? Like, but you're. You're getting more sales experience than he's getting. You know, like, you're. You're interacting with people. You're. You're learning skills, skills that you might not even realize just by working. You're doing it. What skill is he learning by sitting home when we say when we want a partner? Right. So what does that mean? Partnership? It's like, I had teachers, teammate, someone to do, you know, what are all the cliches we say when we talk, you know, our vows or whatever? I want to do life together with you. Well, okay, well, it's a cliche, but there's some. Like, we. We mean that, but we have to apply it. Like, he just wants you to be around to have quality, and that's nice. Quality time's important for especially a lot of people. But, like, what are you doing together as a team? What are you driving for? If you felt like his efforts and energy matched yours and he showed up and. And it doesn't always have to be the same, you know, like, at the end of the day, you both have to feel like you're contributing. Natalie and I feel like, for the most part, feel like we are contributing to the life that we've chosen to have as parents, as co workers, as homeowners, you know, we both have to show up when that doesn't always happen. There might be a conversation, but for the most part, I feel like she's committed to this lifestyle as much as I am. And we both want it, and we are both willing to put in a. The work. And that's. I think the part you guys are struggling with is what is that thing you guys are working towards right now? It's like you have a lot of other things you want to accomplish, and you can like him and love him. That doesn't take away from the things that you want to accomplish. And it probably feels like he is Taking away from that because instead of like also being busy and productive, he's like, you do you work too much? And you're like, yo, bro, like, first of all, I need to make money. Second of all, I'm only 22 too. Like, what. I mean, how much time do you want to spend together?
- [89:08]
Paige
Yeah, yeah, I hear you on all of those. And I'm just like. I guess I'm freaking out my head just because I can go on kind of the same way that we have been. We have six more months on our lease.
- [89:20]
Nick
Well, what else did in those notes? You had a page of notes. What else did you say to him?
- [89:24]
Paige
Oh, I said, I miss missing you. I was telling him that I recharge alone. Like, like when my battery is low. Like, I need some time and then, and then I'm fully ready to like be all in together. But sometimes, like, I just need some separation. Like my mom's like that I've like
- [89:40]
Nick
half the population's like that. Yeah, it's. It's an introverted quality. Yeah, so you probably have some introverted qualities. You know, you're not alone in that.
- [89:50]
Paige
He was saying that I'm so focused on myself and what I need and never what he needs and that I never like, go out of my way to like buy anything for him or do anything for him when picked him up at the airport like a week, gotta buy him. Because I, because we talk, we're talking about money and like, I was like, it, we don't have to like do lavish things, but like, I'd appreciate if I didn't have to like split the bill with you every time we go to dinner. Like, it's just like chivalrous things I kind of miss in our relationship. And he was like, hated that the other day I, I was dog sitting for my sister, so I had two dogs on my lap in the car and went to go pick him up from the airport and I didn't get out and kill kiss him. And he was like really bothered by that.
- [90:30]
Nick
He sounds like the woman in the relationship.
- [90:33]
Paige
He kind of is. But I've also, I know that I have certain tendencies that like, that's also
- [90:39]
Nick
not meant to be a dig on women. I don't know. He just like is like, you know, it's like he likes the gifts and he wants to be wined and dined and he wants to be valid. I, I don't like, I don't know.
- [90:49]
Paige
He wanted to know how long I'll be like doing this much work and like what my plan is with it. He was like, how long are you me doing this? Because, like, I.
- [90:56]
Nick
Well, I hate it, first of all, until I don't have to do it or someone else can contribute to supporting a shared lifestyle. And someday. Do you want kids?
- [91:09]
Paige
Someday, yes.
- [91:10]
Nick
So someday I want kids that's going to. I don't know. When are you going to, when are you going to grow up? I don't know. Like, I take care of us and, and you, you help with the cat. Like a, like my, like my daughter's going to. In. In. When she's old enough to do chores.
- [91:29]
Paige
Yeah.
- [91:30]
Nick
You know, I. It sounds like, you know, it sounds like you're dating a. Someone who's probably a little spoiled. And, and listen, I, I'm definitely here. The older guys, like, oh, younger. The younger generation is a little softer. And, you know, Gen Z brings a lot to the table that millennials Neil don't, you know, but it's like, it's like society is breeding two different types of men. The really empathetic, you know, understands the plight of women. Soft, boyish, maybe kind of a loser energy or this, like, toxic red pill, aggro, masculine. Has all the wrong role models, but they are motivated and they, they do the grind. And it's just like, you can be a good guy and you can still chivalrous and you can still want to be the king of your castle without being kind of a misogynistic dick. You know what I'm saying? There is a middle ground. But it does feel like in today's society, we're, you know, just in everything. We're, we're, we're, we're. We're lacking the middle ground. Anyway, I digress. He might not be your guy. You're not wrong for wanting more from him. I think it's okay that you challenge him and you can do it without. Without like, emasculating him, but you could just be like, listen, man, I'm an ambitious person and that's not going to change. And I think you should expect more of yourself. And if we continue to be in a relationship, I want to feel like you're meeting me halfway. Yes, quality time is important, but, like, it should bother you that you, like, you have to split a movie thing with me. It's like, yo, you know, and like, if it's a money thing, you spend a lot of time at home doing nothing. And I have two jobs, you know,
- [93:20]
Paige
he has a job, so he does work the 9 to 5, but you
- [93:23]
Nick
have two, you know, and I'm just simply saying that, like, your. Your point is, like, I'm young, I got a lot of time on my hands, and you still have free time to go out. If he is your guy, he has to be open to getting some direct feedback from you that doesn't make him feel threatened or emasculated or resentful towards you needing more from him. Yeah, it's great that he's empathetic. It's great that he's gentle and kind and lovable and. And. And in touch with his emotions. But, like, man the up.
- [93:53]
Paige
Well, that's what makes it so hard to, like, have conversations with him too, because I, like, I don't want to hurt him all the time, and I know that that's something that I need to work on. Like, just being more honest and, like, having the hard conversations doesn't mean him
- [94:05]
Nick
being hurt by hearing how you feel. Feel doesn't make you the bad guy. And it might mean you're incompatible. But if you are constantly hurting your feelings simply because you're speaking your truth or communicating your expectations of what you need in a relationship doesn't make you the dick. But just because his expectations are of the more romantic nature, it's like, well, all I want to do is to spend time with my girl. Like, okay, you know, fine. But, like, that doesn't.
- [94:34]
Cassie
Yeah.
- [94:35]
Nick
And if you were filming a reality TV show, that would land really well. But in reality, I want a partner who's going to show up in more than just ways of wanting to spend time with me or taking care of our cat. And I want to know you can do the hard things, and I want to know you can grind. Yeah, he just doesn't want to have anything better to do than to hang out with you. And that's, like, not as romantic as it sounds, or he wants to believe it sounds. Sounds.
- [95:01]
Paige
Yeah, it's really nice. In my head, I'm like, oh, he cares about me so much, and I should be grateful, but it's not attractive a lot of the time because I'm just like, I can't breathe.
- [95:10]
Nick
What you can't do is accept this as normal and silence your feelings about this. And he's like, oh, but he makes me laugh. And he's a nice guy, so I should marry him.
- [95:21]
Paige
Yeah. I needed this. I needed someone just to tell me that.
- [95:26]
Nick
Yeah.
- [95:27]
Paige
Okay.
- [95:28]
Nick
And he has every opportunity to not be a loser. It's not that hard, you know? Yeah, you just want to see a little ambition. You'd probably be like, so turned on if he was like, yeah, I got a second job. You know, it's just like, I'm. Is he at least, like, in great shape? I mean, what is he doing with his free time? Is he like, excelling in anything in his life?
- [95:49]
Paige
No, he's. I have. I've always been pretty active. I've competed in bodybuilding competitions. I. When I was in high school. So, like, I. Since then, I am on five days a week, I go to the gym. Like, that does not change. I will not cancel my gym plans for anything. That also bothers him sometimes because he's like, can we just hang out? Why are you going to work out? But he doesn't work out. And he'll say, like, oh, I want to work out. I'm going to start working out.
- [96:12]
Nick
What does he do?
- [96:13]
Paige
And then stop. He sometimes plays video games. He'll just come home or he'll go to a record store. He likes his records, but honestly, not much. On weekends, like, he'll go out with his work buddies. How go drink.
- [96:29]
Nick
But your age.
- [96:30]
Paige
Yes.
- [96:32]
Nick
I mean, yeah, he's.
- [96:35]
Paige
Yeah. He doesn't have any passions. He doesn't.
- [96:39]
Nick
No, he just had. I mean, it's. It's, you know, listen, I don't know how many passions I had as 22. I had a passion to try to be great or do something I could be proud of and, you know, that should be enough. He doesn't have that. He is as comfortable with being average. And that's okay for some people. It's definitely not okay for you.
- [97:01]
Paige
I don't want to just exist.
- [97:02]
Nick
If you want to be with him, you have to gently and honestly set your expectations and challenge him. But it's like, I don't want to force you to want the same things for me, and I don't want to make you feel less than. Because I have these expectations of my. Myself.
- [97:20]
Paige
Right.
- [97:22]
Cassie
Yeah.
- [97:23]
Paige
I'm in a tough spot. It's hard when. It's really hard when I, like, you know, that they're probably just not for you and you're probably just not compatible. But he doesn't do anything wrong. So it's like, I wish that he would do something wrong.
- [97:38]
Nick
So that's not true.
- [97:39]
Paige
He doesn't break up with him.
- [97:40]
Nick
What do you mean wrong? Of course he's doing something wrong.
- [97:42]
Paige
Like give you like an. I don't know, like nothing feels like legitimate to actually break up with.
- [97:48]
Nick
It doesn't make any sense. He doesn't have to rob a bank for you to justify breaking up with him. He could just like not be your guy. And you can be incompatible. And again, like, you will just feeling your gut. Like, I'm not like Natalie is. It's not like Natalie's like the same gung ho person that I was. But when I met her, she was finishing up school. She was also bartending. She was like, she would bartend all night and then wake up at five in the morning and do clinicals for. Because she's a surgical technologist and she would work at the hospital and then she would go to fucking school. School. Because she just had to do it. And then, you know, she does not. She doesn't do that, some of that stuff anymore. She doesn't have to. But like, even just in our relationship, like, I don't know, she just does things that are helpful to me. Like she makes our house feel like a home. You know, that's a lot, you know, and like, you know, it's kind of embarrassing that I was in my mid-30s and like, you know, you could come to my house and be like, I don't. I don't know if this guy's in college or if he's an adult, you know, because, you know, I had nice things, but there was. It didn't have the finishing touches. You know, as a mom, I think I'm an amazing dad and I'm very present in childcare. But like, she does a lot of the, you know, she's. And it's not because I asked her. There's just so many examples I have of Nally just doing her part and showing up and being my partner. And it would, it would just. It's not like I've thought about this. I wasn't like, oh, it just like, I just felt it. I didn't feel what you feel, which is that disconnecting of like, what the fuck do you feel do, like, where it's just like, God, you know, and the fact that he's not doing anything. And then simultaneously still, you know. And again, Natalie is the less introverted version of me. Quality time is really important to her. Like, we spent a lot of time together and she's also bringing so much more than the table that like, it's, you know, he. That's all he wants from you.
- [99:37]
Paige
Yeah.
- [99:39]
Nick
And he's complaining about that while. While not making your life easier in any other way. That's kind of the, you know, it's just like, you know, he's not an employee, but like, like whoever, whether it's an employee or a partner, the people you have, the. Like, other than family. Right? Family. It's just like, I don't know, you're my parent, you're my brother and sister, you're my family. Can't do anything about it. And I don't even really like you, but I love you and you're my family, and I'll see you at Christmas, if nothing else, you know? But the people you choose to be with you in your life, the people that. Like, it's an option, whether that's friends, whether it's romantic interest, interest, at the end of the day, they have to make your life easier and better, you know? Right. Like, there's going to be challenges, but, like, every day, like, to be like, yeah, I know why you're. I know why I choose you. And you're at this crossroad of, like, man, you're a lot of fucking work, you know?
- [100:27]
Paige
And it's like, can I tell you something else? You just reminded me something.
- [100:30]
Nick
Sure.
- [100:30]
Paige
Okay. So the other day, my sister and her boyfriend are also having issues. And in the middle of the night. So I got home from work, and the next day, I was. It was Saturday. I was supposed to be off, so my boyfriend and I were gonna go do something up that day. It's the middle of the night. I get a call from my sister. Sounds like someone's dying. I was like, oh, my God, what happened? Her and her boyfriend had a really big fight. She's like, I think we're gonna break up. I need you to come over. I was like, I'm on my way. So get up, get clothes on, run out of the house. It's like, where are you going? I was like, I'm going to my sister. I'll see you tomorrow. And so then I drive over to her house and spend the night with her. We have a whole night, come back the next day, like, probably, like, in noon. And he was so distraught and upset with me because he was like. We were like, I get that you had to be there for her, but, like, what do they even fight about? And also, like, we were supposed to have a whole day. And, like, now it's kind of ruined. And, like, I'm not necessarily mad at you.
- [101:22]
Nick
It's just like, did you have any specific plans?
- [101:24]
Paige
We were supposed to go to, like, literally, Nordstrom Rack and maybe go get, like, some coffee. And he was just like, I did nothing today. And, like, we were supposed to do all these things. And I was just like, you could have gone to go do stuff. Like, I'm Sorry. Like life happened, happens. But like, it's that stuff.
- [101:40]
Nick
Yeah. I. I think he's not your guy, honestly. I mean, it's hard to imagine he's going to make some big meaningful changes. I could be wrong, but you have to make decisions knowing that how you feel is. Is valid and okay. And you're not wrong. You're crazy. And. And if you want things to change, you have to make them change.
- [101:59]
Paige
Yeah.
- [102:00]
Nick
And. And accept that he might not be capable.
- [102:04]
Paige
Yeah. All right, well, thank you so much for sitting with me and hearing my plights.
- [102:10]
Nick
I hope. I hope it was helpful. But yeah, these are. These are. These are challenges and you're figuring yourself out. And God knows I didn't figure it out at 22, but. Yeah, put it this way. Relationships are hard. And one thing that being in relationship with Natalie really taught me is that it doesn't need to be that hard.
- [102:34]
Paige
It.
- [102:35]
Nick
It just doesn't. They're hard enough. Every relationship is going to have its challenges. Every relationship's going to have its dark moments. You know, some real things that you. A couple. Every. Every relationship. But the day to day should be easy, you know? Yeah, it should. Like, you know, we. We like doing the same things together. We're on the same page with our expectations of quality time. I never really had to think about, does my partner match my work ethic. It just felt like she showed up in a way that she makes my life easier and helpful and she brings things to the table that I don't. Her strengths matches my weakness. It just kind of made sense and it's very much not making sense sense to you. And it's. It shouldn't be this hard to coexist with your partner and you're in. And I've had relationships in the past where I loved them and they were great and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but it was kind of hard to just coexist with them, you know, and at the end of the day, I just. They weren't my person.
- [103:42]
Paige
I hear you.
- [103:43]
Nick
All right, good luck.
- [103:44]
Paige
Okay. Thank you so much. You guys were so great.
- [103:47]
Nick
Keep me posted when you break up.
- [103:50]
Paige
Okay, I'll keep you posted.
- [103:52]
Nick
All right, take care.
- [103:53]
Paige
Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you.
- [103:54]
Nick
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