C (2:47)

It's pretty juicy.

B (2:48)

There's a lot of vocal stems that people will have from this reunion.

D (2:52)

Oh, my gosh.

E (2:55)

I almost filed for divorce.

A (2:57)

Oh, my God.

B (2:58)

This is very me.

E (2:59)

Yeah.

D (3:00)

Yeah.

E (3:00)

I don't feel like this is news to you.

A (3:03)

I feel like you just because of Madonna.

E (3:05)

Not necessarily. I mean, that's definitely like kind of, I guess could play a part if you wanted to. Nick's been, like, listening to Madonna one song over and over on repeat with his, like, headphones in. And he's just sitting in the backyard and he's like dancing. I texted him, what are you doing? And he said, jamming awful.

B (3:27)

Oh, that's awesome.

E (3:28)

And then said, I can turn it off if you want to come join me. And then I came out and then he turned it through the big speaker.

A (3:37)

Cause I wanted to play dad's favorite song for his daughter. Yeah.

E (3:41)

And then he.

A (3:42)

Which is hung up by Madonna.

E (3:44)

Hung up by Madonna.

C (3:45)

Exactly.

E (3:46)

And he was like, trying to dance with river and she was kind of like, no, dad, stop. Stop what you're doing.

A (3:52)

It was major, major, major ick vibes. And you know what? I didn't care. I've never. I was reminded by Madonna, obviously, Madonna. We're talking about her because she came out during Sabrina Carpenter set, a Coachella. She slayed. It was iconic. That was the first. I mean, Justin Bieber aside, he's great. I've seen him in concert before. Props to Justin Bieber. He's the king. Everyone loved him. But missing that Madonna moment was something I was very jealous of. I was reminded of how much I love Madonna. And the song Hung up came out when I was, like, in my early 20s. And it used to be the song I'd work out to. And I would just play it on repeat and it. It makes me feel alive. It makes me feel like.

C (4:34)

Yeah.

A (4:35)

If I had a movie about my life and my main character movie, like, this is one of my theme songs. And it's part of a. Of a dance battle sequence that would be played during the movie of my life.

C (4:48)

Like that scene in Anchorman.

A (4:50)

Yes. There's this.

F (4:51)

Yeah.

A (4:51)

Have you ever seen the Hung up video? There's this moment where Madonna, she's wearing, like jeans and a leather Jacket and she's walking to the beat, and she looks like such a badass. It just. It makes me feel alive. I don't. I have no apologies. I am so ever.

E (5:03)

Madonna can give that impression on him.

A (5:07)

It's like, I can't explain just how. I just feel good. Anyways. It also feels my way.

C (5:14)

My favorite Natalie ever said.

B (5:16)

Natalie, what was your POV of looking out the window and seeing Nick jam? Like, I just want to know what

E (5:21)

that looks like standing outside of our bedroom window and was, like, thrusting and like. Like, fist bumping and, you know, like, for me, that was hard to watch.

A (5:30)

Hung up is a remake of, like, a disco song. So first of all, it's like watching your husband dance to disco.

E (5:36)

And no, it's like being in one of those clubs that have the headphones only, but, like, you don't have the headphones.

B (5:42)

Silent disco.

A (5:43)

Yeah.

C (5:43)

Yeah.

E (5:44)

You're just watching everyone, like, jam out. I did in fact, have to text my sister a screenshot. And I texted Nick, saying, what are you doing? He said, outside jamming. Come. I said, jamming. Question mark. He said, listening to Madonna on my headphones. But I can turn off. I said, oh, boy. I sent it to my sister. She said, we love the honesty and open book. I put in quotes on my headphones. She said, what if. He said, outside listening to AC dc Better or worse? I said in quotes, head banging a little. She said, I can turn it off, I guess, if I have to. But, like, I can turn it off if you want to come out. I guess I'll turn it off. And then to put it on the speaker and just play it louder, it was like, this is nut. But that's not why I wanted to file for divorce.

D (6:27)

That's not?

E (6:27)

No.

A (6:28)

Oh, my God. Was it the gong?

E (6:29)

Was it the gum? Guys, last night, I put on. I put on my new PJs, my new jammies.

A (6:37)

They're new.

E (6:37)

My new Jammy Juice. Yep. And Nick's like, let's watch the Peaky Blinders movie. I'm like, okay. Cute. Nick puts river down to go to bed. I meet him upstairs, sit down on the couch. We're watching the movie, you know, I stand up and I put my hand on my butt and feel gum.

B (7:00)

Oh, no, gum.

E (7:02)

He left his chewed gum on a couch cushion.

D (7:06)

Oops.

E (7:08)

Like, what psychopath does that?

B (7:11)

And are we more worried about the couch cushion or your pajamas?

A (7:14)

Well, the couch cushion. I'm not worried about the couch cushion

E (7:16)

because it's all over my pants.

B (7:18)

Okay. Clearly transferred on to you.

E (7:19)

This fat.

A (7:20)

It was Natalie's hot smoking ass that melted the gum to whatever degree it needed to be melted so it would then attach to her.

E (7:28)

Crazy. That's crazy.

C (7:30)

Oh. Oh, sorry. I misunderstood. I thought Nick put his chewed up piece of gum on your couch, not just left.

B (7:37)

He did.

A (7:37)

I did.

E (7:38)

That is exactly what he did.

C (7:40)

He thought you're chewed up.

A (7:42)

Not on purpose. I don't know. I don't know how it worked on purpose.

E (7:45)

It wasn't an accident that you set it on the couch.

D (7:47)

It was.

A (7:47)

No, it was. It was an accident. I don't know.

E (7:49)

Purposefully were like, oh, I'm gonna set that there.

A (7:52)

I was absolutely too busy listening to Madonna.

D (7:55)

Nick.

B (7:55)

Madonna. Madonna teleported you back into your childhood where you put gum on the desk.

C (8:01)

Confessions of it on a dance floor, part two. Nick sticks his gum.

B (8:05)

Wait, so, Natalie, what did you do with the gum? Because I know how you're supposed to get it off the pajamas.

A (8:10)

Ice and hairspray. Right?

E (8:11)

You better.

B (8:11)

Yeah, you freeze. You freeze your, like, clothes so that it, like, detaches.

E (8:15)

I told him he needed to get this out of my pants immediately.

A (8:19)

Send me the link to what? Buy new pajamas?

E (8:23)

No, I found them at TJ Maxx. There is no link find at TJ Maxx of, like, oh, my God. So soft, so cozy. Perfect.

A (8:32)

I'll get it out. I'll get it out.

B (8:33)

Yeah, if you freeze it, it'll maybe hopefully 80% come out.

E (8:37)

Also, Nick is.

A (8:38)

Or adding or.

E (8:40)

Well, not. This isn't like, adding to the divorce. This is just, like, cute. But he. You know, we're trying to. Trying is a stretch. We are not trying, but we are attempting to think about possibly trying to sleep train River a little bit. So that way when the twins come, she's not in our bed every single night. Like, she is currently right now. We put her to bed in her crib, and then she wakes up, and then she comes into our bed, and then she sleeps with us the rest of the night, and we're like, oh, maybe before the twins come, we should, like, not have her do that. Because then, like, twins waking up every two hours, it's just not going to be good for anybody. So we've been talking about thinking about trying to not do that, and now Nick is not even waiting for her to wake up. He's just like, should I go get her? I'm just gonna. Should I just go wake her up now? I'm like, what if this was the night that she slept through? He's like, I don't know. I can't sleep.

A (9:30)

I'm gonna go get her.

E (9:31)

I'm joking.

A (9:31)

Well, because she wakes up right when I'm about to fall asleep. And now it's just like she is on this pattern or schedule rather. And now it's just like I'm kind of like not falling asleep. Cause I'm waiting for her to wake up. And I did admit to Natalie that like, river sleeping with us is. It's as much for us as. Well, certainly for me. Like, I'm gonna miss. Once the twins show up, I'm gonna miss our snuggles.

E (9:56)

We are getting her a twin size bed so that way we can just sleep with her instead of her sleeping with us.

B (10:03)

Yeah, but you're gonna put the bed in your bedroom is what you're saying.

C (10:06)

No.

A (10:06)

So what am I doing wrong there?

E (10:07)

She wakes up. I just think it's funny how we're like, we need to sleep train her. And we gotta get her to like sleep through the night and stay in her room. And now you don't even wait for her up. You're just like, I'm just gonna go.

A (10:19)

I love getting her out of bed and bringing her into bed. And then you have to sleep snuggles with Natalie and then she'll snuggle with me.

E (10:27)

And then she woke me up this morning by kissing me on my lips and going, kiss.

B (10:32)

Aww.

E (10:32)

Kiss. And then she was like, wake up, mama.

C (10:35)

Wake up.

E (10:36)

And then I was like, mama's gonna keep sleeping. And she said, dad, get up. And then she's ready to go. And it's like the sweetest thing ever.

B (10:43)

Anyways, well, hear me out. You get an Alaska king bed and you just have all the babies in the bed with you.

C (10:50)

I'm sorry, did you say an Alaska?

A (10:51)

What's an Alaska king bed?

B (10:52)

Is that what they're called?

C (10:53)

California?

D (10:54)

No, no.

B (10:54)

Alaskan is the one that's really wide. Alaskan's the massive one. That's like the length of a couch. Even longer.

C (11:01)

One bigger than a California.

E (11:03)

Well, when I was a kid, my. We would go to stay with my dad and he would push all of the beds together. So it was like one big bed because none of us wanted to sleep apart. So we would have like two twin, one king, one full. And he would just like push them all together. And then it was like this massive.

B (11:20)

Honestly, that's fun.

C (11:22)

That's really cute.

A (11:23)

Well, like I said, guys, we have an amazing episode coming up for you. So much to get into. Again, we have Mark L Wahlberg, host of Temptation island to help preview the upcoming reunion that you can see only exclusively on the Vile Files. You can watch it on YouTube at 8pm Eastern on Wednesday night and again on Friday, 8pm Eastern. It's a two part special. You're going to be locked in, entertained. You will not want to miss it. Also so much to get into on the pop culture front. Wes and Amanda continue to go out in the streets of New York. They are being seen. They are locked in. They are fully, seemingly in a relationship. Sierra has finally made a statement. Lots to unpack there. I thought all weekend about like I'm gonna be. I'm about to be a father of three girls and I just started thinking about like as they get older and start dating, the situations they're gonna find themselves in and what advice I'm gonna want to give them if they when they find themselves like hurt or giving too much energy to people who like keep showing them over and over that they don't deserve that energy. But anyways, it's it. It does a lot to get into. We have the wonderful Courtney Revolution to help us talk about all these topics. We got Taylor, Frankie, Paul, she's Dakota has made a statement. Jesse Draper is out there with Marciano. So much to get into. And that is all up next with Courtney Revolution. But before we get to Courtney Revolution, do not forget the VAL Files plus is ad free and you can get some amazing content on VAL Files plus including your reality recap Deep Dives where we get granular on all your favorite reality TV stories and all the drama that's unfolding in all your favorite shows. Plus your Pop Extra roundup where we get to talk about your pop culture topics. We don't have time for On Reality Recap and your Update specials where we give you your favorite updates and all your favorite ass nick callers. So much that and more. Plus it's all ad free. Just go to vilefiles.com to sign up and you'll be glad that you did. It's time to talk about Article if you are looking to upgrade any room in your house, be sure to check out article. You will be glad that you did. Article offers a curated range of mid century, modern, coastal and Scandi inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also pair seamlessly with nearly any other article product. Whether it's the indoor space. Maybe it's a bedroom, dining room, kitchen area or your office space. Possibly. Maybe you're looking to upgrade your outdoor space. Natalie and I have talked to you many times about the outdoor furniture we got from Article. We've had it for a few years now. It still looks great. It's incredibly durable. We get so many compliments on it. We're just absolutely obsessed with it. They have great customer service. They cut out the middleman and pass those savings on to you. What I love so much about Article is they have many pieces in stock. So many times when you're furniture shopping you have to wait weeks, sometimes months to get the furniture you want. Right now with Article, most of the things are ready to ship right now when you order them. Also, they have their 30 day satisfaction guarantee. With Article, you can shop with confidence knowing that if you're not completely obsessed or in love with your Article furniture, you can easily return it. The peace of mind ensures that you can invest in your home without hesitation.

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E (15:54)

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A (17:15)

Welcome to the show. How you doing, buddy?

F (17:18)

I am feeling dandy and fantastic. How about yourself?

A (17:20)

Wonderful. That's one chipper attitude. Do you start every morning with that kind of energy that. That.

F (17:25)

I am a morning person. I love to be out. I'm at like the gym at this time, so, like, I'm used to being up and just, you know, in it.

A (17:33)

Okay. Yeah. Well, we're excited to have you. Obviously, you're a big fan of all the things that we love talking about and we thought you'd be the perfect guest to help us unpack all the things going on in the reality TV and pop culture world. Did you do anything before we get started? Did you do anything fun this weekend? Like what what is Courtney Revolution doing on the weekend as he preps for a busy Monday morning of talking pop culture. Pop culture. And getting those arms jacked.

F (17:56)

Lay on the couch and watch tv. This particular weekend, I laid around and I watched a lot of good tv.

E (18:02)

You didn't have any Coachella weekend two. Justin Bieber, Madonna, Billie Eilish, fomo.

F (18:07)

No, no, listen, I love Coachella. It's a lot of fun. I've been one time. And so because I've been that one time, I haven't been in a rush to be back.

A (18:17)

Right?

E (18:18)

Yeah, yeah, it's a lot.

A (18:19)

Yeah, it's a lot.

F (18:20)

It's a trek.

A (18:21)

We got a lot to get into, starting with. Going into the weekend, we found out that Taylor Frankie Paul will not be facing any additional charges as it relates to the most recent situations that she found herself in. Dakota has also recently released a statement. I mean, I think we're all happy that Taylor's not going to be charged and hopefully there's a path forward. I don't know what this means for her future on TV or the future of the Bachelorette, but it seems like maybe, hopefully things are heading in the right direction for Taylor Frankie Paul. And then we also have a statement from Dakota.

E (18:57)

You know, it's all just a bunch of. It's a bunch of latitudes, and it looks like maybe was written by someone that was not him, but it's. Overall, he's focusing on his son and he's. He is happy to be out of such toxic situations, and he has given his son the best future and priority

A (19:17)

that it was the thing that was. I found. I don't know, it was more like now he's releasing a statement saying he's. It sounds like he's retiring from tv. It sounded like he is leaving the spotlight, as he claims in his statement. Is that. How does it. How does he word it?

E (19:33)

I've chosen to step away from the spotlight to focus on my family, my growth and our healing, and that's where my energy will remain.

A (19:39)

I don't know if this is a permanent step away from the spotlight or this is like taking a break from Instagram kind of break.

C (19:45)

It's hard to tell these days, but

A (19:47)

coming off, like announcing this right after his appearance on a reality TV show, it seems to be like, oh, you had to. You had to slip that in. And then now we're taking a step back.

E (19:59)

It was like, he's like, sorry, I just got one more opportunity.

A (20:01)

I had one more thing. I had to promote and. And get out there. But now, now I am ready to be done.

E (20:08)

Yeah, close the curtain.

F (20:10)

Close the curtain. I think that they should both. I think they should both be done, actually. Honestly, him and Taylor, I mean, I agree.

A (20:16)

I think a lot of people would probably support that. I mean, I hope that if Taylor has an opportunity and chooses to be in the spotlight, I hope it is in an environment that serves her well and doesn't put her in perpetual toxic situations. Because I mean like this is her job, this is her career, but it hasn't always been.

E (20:38)

And I think like she doesn't need TV to be successful. She has shown us that she can be successful on social media with her following, sharing what she has control of, sharing. And I think that is the healthiest place for her right now.

A (20:52)

And I don't think agree that a life online is still part of a life in the spotlight. You don't have to just be on tv. And I'm.

F (21:00)

When.

A (21:00)

When Dakota says I'm taking a step down from the spotlight, I'm expecting not to see any more like dad talk videos with him and Jordan and having him do bits. Yeah. But I'm just saying if we're talk. No, I understand. But if we're saying what does a step down look like for either of them? I'm just saying like, if she chooses to still like be on social and be an influencer and engage with her followers, that is part of the spotlight.

E (21:23)

So I guess, yeah, I just, I don't, I agree that they both don't need to be on television. I agree that I don't need to see. I never did need to see what Dakota was doing on social media before and I definitely don't need to see it now. Taylor, I think who is very vulnerable, very vocal, wants to share her life to help others who may be in similar situations. I think is important for social media and I think it's important for her healing. And I don't think her being on a television show where she is not in control and other people are exploiting her to make a good show is healthy for her.

F (22:00)

That's exactly how I feel, period, Kourtney. That's exactly how I feel. She could be on social media. She could give us a self produced series, something because she wants to help people while sharing her life. She doesn't need to be in a situation where other people are pulling the strings for her.

A (22:14)

Yeah.

F (22:14)

Because it's very easy to make her look wild.

A (22:17)

Yeah. I hope that she can control her narrative and that she is in control of her opportunities and choices to whatever degree is possible.

E (22:24)

Are you also following the Alex versus Alex, y'?

D (22:29)

All?

F (22:29)

I'm trying to follow it. First of all, they have the same name. Second of all, all of this is over podcast deals.

A (22:35)

Allegedly.

C (22:36)

I don't know. I gotta.

F (22:37)

Allegedly.

C (22:38)

I gotta be honest. These are two girls that I did not know who they were before I started working here.

F (22:44)

Like, can I be honest? This very much felt like I'm cracking the door on white people's business.

C (22:50)

Yeah.

F (22:51)

Who are these? Like, who are these women? And I. I did read up on them.

C (22:55)

They look the same.

A (22:55)

They look the same.

F (22:56)

The same. And all of this is over microphones.

C (23:01)

I don't know. They're expensive mics.

F (23:02)

She was mean to me over the microphones.

E (23:04)

Did y' all see that Dakota Johnson lie detector where they show her a picture of Alex Earl? And she's like, I don't know who this is. Is this the call her daddy girl? And then they show her a picture of Alex Cooper, and she's like, is this not the same person? And they're like, no, that's Alex Cooper. And she's like, oh, no, they both have the same name. It's both Alex. They're both doing podcasts. Are they enemies? Do they have beef? They probably have beef over podcasts. And it's like you predicted all of this.

A (23:28)

She really.

C (23:28)

Dakota Johnson is always at the scene of the crime. Actually, that's not the truth, Ellen. Like, I love that girl down.

A (23:35)

The only thing. I mean, now we're talking about this over the weekend. I think just the thing that's most confusing is what? Well, one, it does seem to, like, be losing its steam because, like, what? Not to. A few days ago, Alex Earl is like, kind of like, oh, bet, you know, like, all right, I'm on it. Suggesting that maybe she was finally going to speak out. And then we haven't heard from her. And then she, like, posts this, like, pole dancing video, which is like, okay, you're not going to give us what we want, which is fine. We never really asked for it. Like, this all started with Alex Earl. Kind of like, call it subtweeting or liking or just, like, cryptic messages that suggested there was some kind of beef. And then I think what's surprising to us mostly is it's like, why did Alex Cooper bother? Like, she is building this, like, massive empire. She, you know, wants to be the next Oprah. She seems to be doing a lot of things that are putting her in that position. Sorry. Not to disrespect Oprah. But you know, that that's. That's the word on the street. That's like, she. She wants to be thought of above the fray, you know, like, this is, you know, call her daddy. Started as, like, two women talking about their sexual endeavors. And I know from talking to Alex that she made a lot of effort into, like, changing how her show was. Like, it was something that was not easy to do. Many people don't, like, start a show being one thing and successfully transition into something else. And it's just, like, why. Why bother inserting yourself in the type of drama that you work so hard to remove yourself from? Like, you know, it's just, like, you should be. I just don't see the upside for Alex Cooper. It just seems like all she's doing is giving Alex Earl, like, more pre sales on the eventual memoir that she'll write about it, and that will ultimately be nothing, you know, but, like, it will still sell a lot of books. I just don't see why she is, like, what? I just don't see the upside for Alex Cooper other than just, like, was she bored? Did she, like, need a little drama in her life?

F (25:25)

And the Alix Earle young lady, she never posted a full response. As to this is why I've been reposting these shady things about this young lady that I used to work with. She never said her name on the playground. She's just been like, she's being scary.

C (25:38)

Yeah.

F (25:39)

Oh, so she's automatically Elle. So I'm on Cooper Earl. That's a flop.

E (25:44)

But I don't understand, like, why Alex Cooper is coming for, like, now. It's like, anyone who says anything about her, she's like, okay, well, I'm gonna post our. Our text, and I'm gonna post something about you. And, like, she came after Brianna LaPaglia.

F (25:59)

Every time I hear the chicken fry name, I know that just tickles me. The Chicken Fry Burger King.

C (26:05)

To professionally brand yourself as chicken fry is really cool.

A (26:09)

Well, then also, it's just, like, most of these women who we're talking about, I. It seems like the main theme of their platforms or what they do is, like, women supporting women, and yet they're engaging in something that shows the exact opposite, that it's just more like women going after women and then fighting over, like, what seems to be ultimately petty things. Right. I saw a tweet basically saying, like, if we don't find out someone died at this point, I'm going to be disappointed.

E (26:37)

Yeah.

A (26:38)

You know, because the way they are. Yeah. Just it doesn't. It doesn't add up.

C (26:43)

My. My thing with this whole Alex vs Alex thing is just. Alex Cooper, you have interviewed Jane Goodall and Michelle Obama, and yet you feel the need to like, get in on Alex Earl dropped. Like, it doesn't. I just don't. I don't care.

F (27:01)

You said not. You lowered yourself.

C (27:02)

Yeah, no, no.

F (27:04)

To roll around in the filth with Ms. Earl.

C (27:06)

Well, no, it's just like, pick a lane. Like, I. Here's okay. And here's my honest take is like, why would I trust someone that still has beef with Alex Earle to interview Jane All Or Michelle Obama?

F (27:18)

Are you Barbara Walters or are you Wendy Williams?

C (27:20)

Exactly. Pick one.

F (27:21)

Yeah, that's fair.

C (27:22)

That's how I feel and I'm sticking to it.

E (27:25)

What's so interesting, I heard friend of show the Toast girls talking about this and they were like, where is the daddy gang? Like, I just keep seeing so many, like, support for Alex Earl. Where is the daddy gang? And they made such a good point of like, she used to have this big community because she had this podcast where she shared about her life. People felt like they kind of knew what she was doing. And then when she switched and changed what her podcast is, it was kind of like she closed the door on her personal life. And it was like, now I'm setting a boundary. Now nobody knows what in the world she does on a Tuesday night. Like, no one knows anything about what

A (28:02)

she's doing, including what bothers her, you know, like what keeps her up at night and the things she's struggling with,

E (28:09)

things she's going through. Like, no one knows anything. So she's kind of lost that community that felt like they were her fans. And now it's kind of like they've moved on to Alex Earl, who is so open and so honest and is posting like her, you know, crying, being like, oh my God, I got drunk and texted my ex. I'm like so embarrassed. We all know who that ex is. So it is make it is interesting how like she kind of lost her community by shutting.

A (28:35)

It's almost as like she missed that part of her life.

D (28:38)

With what.

F (28:40)

How is Alix Earle so open, honest and vulnerable, but she won't tell us what the beef is.

E (28:45)

Well, that is where it stops. So I don't and I am curious

F (28:50)

to me, you just being messy just to be messy. Cause you got a community now and you just want to attack Ms. Cooper. Cause she got the girlies on her podcast. So just say that.

E (28:57)

No, no. It is confusing that she was like, okay, on it. And responded to the video being like, on it. Which means you're on it. Which means you're setting up a camera.

C (29:08)

Same with your chest.

A (29:09)

Right.

F (29:09)

We need your Tati Westbr like, moment.

E (29:14)

And then has only just, like, posted normal content since then, which is a little like. So you're not gonna. You're not on it is what.

C (29:23)

It's also. It's like I'm supposed to rely on Dave Portnoy to tell me what's going on in this situation. I don't want to do that.

E (29:30)

Tea by the sea.

C (29:33)

Yeah.

A (29:34)

Hey, listen, at the end of the day, it's his two main characters being upset with the other person, not realizing that they're the main character and their respective stories, and they are upset about that.

E (29:46)

Well, right, hold on tight. Maybe we'll catch something.

A (29:49)

I don't think. I don't think we're ever gonna get it or be satisfied because it's just more like, I wanted this. Oh, no, she wanted that. We disagreed. Yeah, right. Like, yeah. And it's. And it's gonna be over something that 99.99 of the people, like, following the story can't relate to.

C (30:06)

Yeah. It'll be like, she didn't sign a release and it's like, no one gives a shit.

F (30:10)

Yeah.

C (30:12)

Microphone, Literally an NDA, whatever.

A (30:16)

All right, well, let's transition to the west and Amanda. Something I was thinking about all weekend as I was thinking about being a girl dad, I'm about to have three daughters and like, what is it going to be like when my daughters start dating and eventually experience heartbreak as the result of inevitable weak men? I saw Instagram post that I reshared that really, like, I felt like, you know, as a girl dad, it really spoke to me and how I hope I have an opportunity to raise my daughters. And basically the theme of the. Of the Instagram was this man, this lovely Irish accent, talking about he's going to raise his daughters to have weak men fear his daughters. And I was like, I don't know exactly what that means, but it really hit home to how I hope my daughters move in relationships. But it will be very difficult to teach that going forward. But anyways, before I get into that, let's. Let's update our audience. In case you missed it, in case you're not following everything that has transpired when it comes to the Westgate west and Amanda and Sierra, a lot has happened since reality recap last Thursday, starting with we finally heard from Sierra and she gave some thoughts about this situation. So, Mary, can you. Can you shed the light on. On some of the comments that Sierra made?

C (31:29)

Yes. Well, Sierra did a Glamour article. She said that she was closer to Amanda at the time, and she's more mad at Amanda because she said that, like, at the end of the day, a man's going to be a man. And Amanda was someone that I was close to and I expected more of. And she had said that her and west had a lot of conversations previously going into that season about their relationship and, like, setting boundaries. One of the boundaries was no more sleeping with people on Bravo that they had set.

A (31:56)

Yeah.

C (31:57)

And she talked about, you know, she's nervous for the reunion. She's been thinking about her outfit. She's not necessarily going to do a revenge dress, but she's going to look good. She got less than 24 hours of a heads up on the joint statement. She said, I've read it with the rest of the world. There's so something about the lack of being able to say each other's names in the statement that I found very telling. But I don't know. She's not going to be the next bachelor. She said, fudge, no. I'm way too private. She talked to. I thought this was really interesting, getting grief about her taste in men. She said, I don't like it. I do feel like I get a lot of grief for dating people, but here's the thing. I've only technically dated two people publicly. For people to make a really roundabout statement about my taste based on two people is annoying and frustrating. I'm trying to figure out dating. If I were a fucking expert, don't you think I would probably be married? But I'm not. Why do we put this pressure on young women? Like, it's our fault for not seeing who this person was immediately. It's our fault for having bad taste in men when men often present themselves as one way for the first three months and then completely end up being someone totally different. And then she also talked, touched on, like, interracial dating and, like, race and being a black woman.

E (33:02)

On Bravo, she also was asked who did she feel like she was betrayed by more west or Amanda and her response was, at the end of the day, a guy's a guy. Whether or not Wes and I are working on our relationship. You can't put anything past man, which, I'm gonna be honest. I didn't love. I didn't love. I don't love that. We are continuing to just be like, ugh, boys will be boy. Like, no, let's hold men to expectations that we hold our female friends to. Like, they can be. They're. They're big boys. They can be held to that high of expectations. We don't need to be like, oh, they're just like, boys. So, like, don't expect anything of them. They're gonna suck. And just like, it's fine. Like, no. You disagree, Mary? I.

C (33:44)

Well, I think I disagree.

E (33:46)

You disagree, Courtney?

F (33:48)

I disagree. I disagree. Because we already know that west is. Is. He's already proven in a pattern sense that he's bound to play in Ciara's face. So it's not as surprising. What is surprising is that you've been on the show with a young lady, slept in a bed with this young lady, had fun parties, dressed up like the elderly with this young lady. And this young lady has played in your face in secret. And then it had to come out because the fans are crazy. And then you put out this bullshit statement, and then you get, like, the text before, like, it, like, Amanda. It's really bad for Amanda. It's really bad. Like, Wes, we know he's. We know. We know Wes is trash, but we weren't so sure about Amanda, and now we have the proof.

E (34:24)

No, I 100% think she should feel more betrayed by who she thought was her. Her best friend. 100%. But I think the excuse of a guy's gonna be a guy. A boy's a boy. Like, at the end of the day, that's just, like, what they are, I think is just, like a lame excuse. I think she can still be like, you know what? What Wes did to me was fucking hurtful. I feel more betrayed by Amanda because she was my best friend. But the way that Wes, like, laughed in my face all summer, he made me feel these types of things. Like, we. We can hold him to the same expectation. He's like, we don't need to, like, less him because he's shown her time and time again who he is.

A (35:00)

Yeah, I just. I think I agree with Natalie. I mean, I just think in general, the boys will be boys is a. What it is, honestly. Like, I think it's a lane for forgiveness in a way that, like, I don't think west deserves. And I also think, like, you can be mad at both people. She should be mad at both people. They both really hurt her. But it's just the. The boys will be boys. Is it? It's basically saying that, like, there are no good guys out there, which it's not true. I understand it's hard to find, but when you keep giving the bad ones more chances, it's even harder to find. But also to that end, it's just more like if your romantic goal is to have a life partner and you date men, then you should definitely still hold your future romantic partner to a high standard, which I think Sierra does. I think Sarah has very high standards. In fact, when I was thinking about my daughters and when they start dating, I hope my daughters love the way Sierra seems to want to love because I have a ton of respect for that. Because what we know about Sierra is that she has very high standards of herself, right? She carries herself very well. And when she. She seems in a relationship is that when it's not only she has high standards of the people she dates, but she has high standards of herself. Which means that, like, I. It seems like just from afar, the way Sierra wants to date is that, like, whoever Sierra ends up with, I think is going to be a very lucky person because her standards don't just start with, like, expecting, you know, whatever she wants from her partner. She brings what she wants to the relationship. I think she shows up in relationships being that person that she hopes that her partner is as well. What sucks about people like west and like, just weak men in general is that they will weaponize their weakness because what they'll do is they'll take that for granted. Right. You know, someone like Sierra will show up and give. Right? And we all know what that's like to show up and being in a relationship and be like, all right, I'm going to walk the walk. I have a lot of expectations of my partner, but I need to be that person, too. And so Ciara shows up being that great partner or being that great friend or being that great companion even in a dating situation, because she is not waiting for the people she's dating to do their part for her to do hers. And then unfortunately, the people like Wes will. Will take that for granted and weaponize that against these very strong people. Because it's like, it's that part of Sierra, the empathetic part. You know, she's an. I mean, she's a nurse. And it's one of some of the most empathetic people out there. And so you want. Like, that's the difficult part about dating, right? Like, where do you draw that line between giving your people you care about grace or understanding that maybe that person no longer deserves that grace? Sometimes when you are hurt by someone you love, you. You. You can see it that they realize their Regret and how much they hurt you and they will never want to do that again. As opposed to, like, someone like west, who to me, like, Wes is the definition of a. Of a weak man. And when I think about, like, weak man, I think about, like, the opposite of like, we talk so much about, like, toxic masculinity, and I feel like, what's the opposite of that? And to me, like, positive masculinity. And like a strong guy is like, like someone who finds joy and love and happiness by considering the feelings of the people they're closest to, their loved ones. They're not constantly centering their own needs and happiness. Like, someone like west, on too often of a regular basis will prioritize his short term gratification for the long term pain of the people he claims to care about. Right. These are the type of men who will say they don't want to be the victim but constantly play the victim. They're the people pleasers. And they will also get other people to advocate for them. Like, that's why you keep hearing, like, rumors. Like, west is kind of. You hear what west is thinking through, like, rumors and hearsay because, like, that's how guys like him move, where they'll kind of be like, well, she's just like this. And they'll have other people, like, speak up for them, but they'll never, like, want to speak up because they're always playing the sheepish, like, I don't know what I'm doing type of guy. Like west at their first rein with Sierra, where he's just like, you know, I'm just like, I don't, I don't like, it's all like a game, right? When you think back about, like, this past season, that whole, like, situation where, you know, where Wes is like, I don't even know how to talk to Sierra. And Sierra was like, I designed it that way. I think that's a game we often play in relationships, right? Like, when we don't feel like we have the power, like we want to think that we do, we play this game. And in that situation, I don't think Weston and is under any illusions that he doesn't have the control and the power in this relationship. But I think he weaponizes his weakness against Sierra by playing the whole, like, I don't know better. I'm just a dumb guy. And I think that's the part Natalie's speaking to where it's just like, if all we do is just keep giving guys like Wes unlimited chances that, like, it's. We'll constantly be disappointed.

C (40:00)

I don't know. I think the thing of, like. Like, the guys will be guys at a certain point is I. I understand what you're saying, and I think, like, the west situation is so specific of he. I completely agree with you, Courtney, of, like, he has hurt her before, and so obviously she has these lowered expectations of him already. And I do completely agree with you, Nick, on the. On the sense of, like, a lot of men will be weak. But honestly, like, I don't think that that's men specifically. I think there are a lot of people in general that, like, will just use. Like, I think I've been guilty of this, to be completely honest, of just, like, using an excuse of wanting to make other people feel comfortable so you can just make yourself feel comfortable at the end of the day and being, like, actual empathy and bravery is saying your true feelings.

E (40:50)

Right?

C (40:51)

And so that's something that, like, Wes would never give Sierra. And that, like, at the core is just, like, you know, that's what's fucked up about this situation is if he would have just been honest with her at any point in time, none of this probably would have happened. But he didn't do that. He just let her create whatever sort of narrative she wanted to create in her head, and he leaned into that, which is fucked up.

A (41:14)

But I do think we can hold him accountable by saying, you're an adult man. You should know better. And just because you're a guy doesn't, like, let you off. Off the hook in terms of, like, maybe you shouldn't know better.

E (41:28)

Because she did refer to him as, at the end of the day, we were genuine friends. Which I think was what made it so hurtful when everything kind of went south and why I needed to take the time after. Like, it's not like they were these, like, kind of distant exes who still were kind of like, they were building their friendship. They were genuine friends. So I think it's okay for her to be like, listen, maybe I'm betrayed more by Amanda because we were closer and we've been friends for longer, but I'm also betrayed by west because, like, what the fuck? And I think that's okay for her to say.

C (41:59)

Question for the room, though. It's like, maybe she does feel that. But is there a. Is there a world where it's like, she just doesn't really want to. As far as this Glamour article goes?

A (42:09)

Yeah.

C (42:10)

I mean, because she was so intentional about it, she doesn't want to center west in this, like, at this Point she's fucking done with that guy.

A (42:16)

But you know, I mean she is like if you don't want to talk about that, the whole thing is about west, which is fine. I mean this article doesn't define Sierra's feelings. It's just one article.

C (42:27)

I think, yeah, this article is about Wes, but I think this article is so much more about like her and this situation that she's been in. I mean she talks about like this season. It just sucks because it's like this season as far as like Sierra's personal storyline, like she got to buy her grandparents house.

F (42:42)

That was so sick.

C (42:43)

I love that like in. And she got to do all of these amazing things and her career is like, like going incredibly. And Sierra's so smart and I think she was very intentional of this article of kind of dismissing west in a way that she can center the narrative back on herself.

F (42:59)

Especially after Wes did the whole thing with the article back in the day. I thought it was very strategic and clever and I applaud her for that.

C (43:07)

That's kind of how I read the whole thing.

A (43:09)

I listen. Not, not wrong. But like some days all three of my daughters will find themselves in a situation like this and it might not be identical to the situation. I just mean like someday, whoever they date, men, women, it won't, it won't matter. But there will be people or per. And it'll probably happen multiple times. I think it happens to all of us, right. Where we find ourselves giving too much of our energy to people who don't deserve it. Right. But we can't explain it. We're just, we're, we're triggered by them. You know, ultimately it's like a trigger response. And early in life we often confuse that with, with love and intensity and passion and things like that. And I, and I think my hope when that happens to my daughters that they will be able to think about the energy that they are giving people in their lives because it's just eventually it's going to happen where like you're convinced that you're right because you're convinced your feelings wouldn't lie to you. And I think part of like dating and getting better at that is kind of being in control with your feelings so that you can hold people who are reckless with your feelings more accountable. The human side of the heartbreak or feeling like you're just like locked into a dating situation I think is relatable to everyone in a sense. And I think for example, the part of the article where Ciara talks about her and Wes. She tried setting some boundaries with Wes going into the season. I imagine, and I hope in the not too distant future for Ciara, she will look back on that and I think she will almost that kind of awkward laugh. And when we laugh about ourselves, when we look back about decisions we made, I imagine she will feel like that was something that was a waste of her energy and time. Like when you're trying to set boundaries with someone you're not in a relationship with and you're trying to set like romantic boundaries or hookup boundaries. Like, I get why Sierra's doing that. Especially in the reality TV world of like, knowing how Bravo works and how everyone's gonna be talking about all these things, I completely get where she's coming from. It's just more like, I hope in the not too distant future she realizes that her energy will be best served with people who bring more positive energy into her life. I don't know about you guys, but I have been in dating situations where you look back and you thought, why did I, Why did I keep going back? Why did I keep allowing this person to do this? And usually the answer is because you love him, you care about him and you want to believe that. You want to see the best in them. And that's where, like, men like west weaponize their weakness against, against people like Sierra. It's not because Sierra is not strong or doesn't know better. It's because, like, he is manipulating and taking advantage of that empathetic part of her that wants to, like, be a good partner and wants to, like, have compassion for when people make mistakes and like, the ability to identify that and know the difference between like, someone who made a mistake and really regrets it and wants to never do that to that person they claim to care about again versus, like, acting like they don't know better. And I just, like, I hope that like, as my daughters start dating, they will be able to find that line earlier in life. Like, my hope for Ciara that she sees this is one of the best moments of her life. Despite the pain it's caused and despite the frustration it's caused her. I hope that allows her to, like, you know, see Wes for who he is and start focusing on people who bring happiness and good energy to her life. Because we only have so much time and energy and if we're focused all our energy on the people who make us sad and upset, it will consume us. I've been, I mean, I don't know about you guys. I've been that person where we Just get stuck by somebody. And the only way we let those people leave is if we, like, push them away. Because in Wes's mind, he's always been upfront with Sierra. Well, I told her, like, we weren't dating. You know, he plays that whole, like. That whole act of, like, I don't even know how to talk to Sierra is him pretending that she has control in a situation where he's in total control of his feelings when he was just like, I don't want Sierra to get hurt. That's him acknowledging that he's not worried about his feelings getting hurt, and he knows that hers will. And yet he plays this whole, like, I don't know how to talk to her. It's a con, right? It's a conscious or subconscious con that. That, like, Wes does that allows him to not take full accountability for, like, knowing that in that moment where, like, when they were filming that party, he chose to bring a girl there and he chose to make out with her in front of a woman he knows is, like, still has mixed feelings about how she feels about him. Like, the recklessness that he shared there, like, that's all on Wes. But, like, I do think you can hold him accountable. And I think if you give him that path, it leaves that door open for, like, giving them a second chance they don't deserve.

E (47:50)

What I thought was absolutely batshit crazy is that the same day that her article came out, they went to the Yankees. Yankees game and were kissing on the kiss cam. Like, I don't think it was an actual kiss cam, but the fact that whoever was working at the Yankees had a camera locked in on them and caught them kissing. Crazy.

C (48:10)

Yeah.

F (48:10)

They need a raise.

E (48:11)

They need a race. But, like, what are you guys doing?

F (48:15)

I thought it was embarrassing. It looked like Weston, like, Amanda. Amanda, like, grabbing for his hand and Amanda pulling him to sit back down as he cheers at the game. It's like, girl, did you not realize that you got Kyle 2.0? If you wanted an introvert, you should have found somebody off the show.

E (48:29)

Exactly.

F (48:30)

Frozen peas for brains. What's going on there?

C (48:32)

Frozen peas for brains.

F (48:34)

It just comes across like. Like Mia said on watch what happens live. What did y' all think was going to happen? When was going to be a good time to come forward with this? Like, you were always going to look like two hefties thrown out on the street for doing this.

D (48:44)

Yeah.

F (48:44)

Like, you know what I mean? Like, what was going on in their minds? Like, at what point did y' all decide? Like, like, you Know what, Sierra, girl, we don't even like your ass no more. Let's. Let's just be together, like, you know what I mean? What was that moment like? Like, I need that asked at the reunion.

C (48:57)

Well, I mean, it's kind of to go to Sierra's point. It's like she said. It's like, why am. Why is it that I'm so much more disposable than another person? And it's just like.

A (49:06)

But she's not, though.

C (49:08)

She's not.

F (49:09)

But, I mean, their actions say otherwise.

A (49:11)

Yeah, but those are their actions. That has nothing to do with Sierra. I understand. That's how she feels in this moment. Right, but they don't define who Sierra is.

C (49:22)

No, not at all. But it's. It's more. This is what I. What I. What I mean is, like, for west and Amanda to just be willfully ignorant, I guess is kind of the. The mode that they're in on their public appearances. As if, like, everyone is not talking about this. Right. Amanda had that thing of like, yeah, I'm gonna keep posting and living my life, and then immediately it's like.

F (49:45)

Like, I'm in a scarf.

C (49:49)

Just like, what are you doing? Why are you pretending? Like, what is. What? Like, what is your intention? What is.

F (49:56)

You know what I would prefer. I would prefer if Amanda popped out and was like, yeah, that's my man. And I want her to see. I want to see them tonguing each other down with paparazzi shots that they planned. I wish that they would almost lean into it and just be the villains, because at this point, y' all trying to fake like y' all are villains and just fell into this when clearly this was something that's planned. They're still cutting the show, and we're seeing all of these intimate moments between, like, Amanda and Wes, like, as the episodes go on, like, it's bullshit. Just lean into it and, like, get a brand deal out of it and let's move on.

C (50:25)

Be honest.

F (50:26)

Be honest. Y' all intentionally threw the friendship away with Ciara and y' all keep on doing it. Like.

E (50:31)

Like, yeah, you're also with the guy who loves to wear scarves. And, like, he has not once tried to hide or he is like, you know what? I'm posting. I'm with my friends. Like, what? Poster. Poster. On your story. She's with you. You just posted all six of your guy friends who are also at the Yankees game post Amanda.

A (50:51)

You know. You know what? I really want to know the boundary that Sierra said she talked about. With west about not hooking up with Bravo people. I want to know what Wes response was. I imagine his response was to agree with that boundary of Sierra, which I think, to my point, speaks to, like, the manipulation of Wes, right? What Wes should like, because I imagine if I had to guess what Wes's narrative is to himself and to Amanda is like, we haven't even been dating for three years. I don't even know what a relationship is. We're clearly not dating. I don't know, or anything, blah, blah, blah.

E (51:24)

Well, for all we know, that could have been his boundary that he set. He could have been like, Sierra, maybe. I don't think we should be.

A (51:29)

But I want to know what that is, right? Because clearly he didn't respect that boundary. But even if it was Sierra who, like, asked, I imagine he said yes. And he probably, like, because again, I think Wes is the type of guy who talks out of both sides of his mouth. He's the people pleaser. Like, whatever you need to hear from him to make you feel good in that moment, he's gonna say it, right? He's not gonna share the tough truth, even if that means, like, disappointing their friend or your partner in the short run just so that you have, like, honesty in your relationship, whatever that relationship is, right? And I think if he said yes, and I imagine he. I imagine Sierra thought they had a boundary that he was going to respect, and he just didn't do it. And I think if that's true, that really speaks to, like, the cowardice part of west where it's just, again, like, that just defines that, that people pleaser in him. And he does it because, like, you know, he's. He's only worried about the moment, right?

E (52:22)

And I don't think he was ever planning on dating Amanda. This was never in his cards. He wanted to hook up with her. He wanted to, like, have fun. And then when shit got serious and there he was like, oh, my God, there's a video. This could be released. It was like, oh, fudge. Now we have to, like, actually try to date. He had a whole other girlfriend. This man was like, in other relationships with people who were not on Bravo. He had zero plans.

A (52:43)

But being with Amanda, Amanda has shown over the past, like, 10 years that she is willing to put up with the bare minimum. She is willing to be easygoing past the point of, like, reasonableness. And for someone like west who, like, wants to, like, get on the plane and go wherever he wants and not be asked questions, in a lot of ways, it makes A lot of sense why he is attracted to someone like Amanda who seems to be willing to do things that most people shouldn't be willing to do. And it seems something that Sierra would never be willing to do. Right. And I. And I think just again, like, knowing that, like, what we've heard from Sierra, how she wants to move in relationships, like, again, I hope my daughters have the guts to like, like, move like Sierra, where they expect a lot of themselves. They show up in relationships, they do their part, and then the. The difficult part is to find out when that person you're giving all this attention and energy to doesn't, like, figuring out whether, like, they deserve a second chance or are they really showing you who they are. And that, honestly, is, like, the very difficult part about love and dating. But the people like west, they'll never cop to it. It's not fair. Right? Nothing about it is fair. That dating in relationships aren't fair. You do feel like when you're in Sierra's position. Yeah, you're exhaust. You're like, why am I always feeling like this? Because, like, you never want. You know, if you're Sierra, you don't want to change how you move. You don't want to, like, be a less of a good partner. You don't want to, like, show up. Not as, like.

E (54:06)

But it's also. It's also not just like, did y' all see Kyle Cook's tweet or whatever from this most recent episode where he's like, what the fuck are we watching? Like, I think we forget that there's someone else also involved in this, but, like, the fact that he's also watching it, being like, oh, my God, what the are these two doing? Like, when Amanda went to sit on that daybed with him, and he. When he's with the girl and she's, like, blocking or whatever, and he is caressing the back of her hair, and then she says, watch my butt as I walk away. Crazy. Two crazy things to happen back to back. And, like, how did they think that was going to play out? I mean, I guess maybe if this wouldn't have happened, we would have never thought twice about it. I don't know. I feel like I still would have

F (54:49)

been like, well, they're still cutting the show that Andy just said recently. So are those parts that were initially edited out and put back in? Yeah, that's why I'm living for each week, because I'm now looking, now that I know, now that Andy's confirmed, like, oh, they're still cutting the Show. I'm in it.

C (55:06)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those. The editors deserve a raised that good.

E (55:11)

They're probably having so much more fun now. The editors, they're like, you know what? This just got really fun.

C (55:17)

Rested. Amanda, watch. Yeah, yeah.

E (55:20)

Like, what can we find?

A (55:21)

But, yeah, I mean, I. I agree with Sierra. It's not fair. Like, the people criticizing Sierra's, like, preference in Met. Like, we all have. We've all have bed pickers. Like, you know, that's part of going out there and dating. And we have to be willing to look back back and be just more precious with our energy. Right. And more precious with the people we invest in. Like, one of my best memories about dating is when I first got cheated on. It's like. And not because it was like, that was a painful experience, but I just think back about, like, kind of what I learned about myself and how I wanted to move forward and how I just got. I started, like, taking accountability for the choices I made in my relationship. And that never. That doesn't let anyone who hurt me off the hook. I still didn't want to with those people. I still did, but it was more about what could I do differently so that, like, dating, for me, it's a little easier. And. And how do I draw that line? And where is that line between giving someone grace or realizing that this person has shown me time and time again that they're going to center their feelings over mine every chance they get?

E (56:27)

It will be interesting to see how she. She said in this interview. Like, she concludes by saying, right now it's great for her to be on reality tv. It's gonna be interesting to see, like, who comes back next season. Obviously, Amanda's, I guess, gonna focus on being on in the city. Like, is her and west gonna be in the house together? Like, how. What's gonna happen? But I am, like, grateful that this is not ending her reality TV stint, because I think we all still want to see Sierra Miller on our screen.

C (56:57)

Yeah. I really, personally am excited and hope to see Ciara just come into her own outside of relationships with men. Like, I really. Or even just relationships in general. I think so much of Sierra's storylines have been dependent on the relationships she has with other people around her. And I just, you know, she is such a compelling personality and someone that, like, I find so much inspiration in just, like. Like, the way she holds herself and the way she lives her life that I just want to see more of it. And I'm really excited.

E (57:28)

I wonder if Amanda and West are also, like, what are they gonna play? What did we do? What did we say? Like, I bet they're also like. We'd have no idea.

A (57:41)

They. They're gonna just have to own it again. The thing if less than a couple months ago, west agreed to this boundary bot not hooking up with people for him to start hooking up with Amanda. It just is.

C (57:53)

Yeah.

A (57:53)

To me just speaks to just how much did not give a fuck.

E (57:56)

Bravo. He could have hated that girl for real. He could have gone like he hates her.

F (58:02)

He hates her and Amanda jealous now I said it. She ain't got an answer at the reunion. She's jealous of Ciara and Wes hate her. And they both took advantage of that. And we're watching it play out, period.

A (58:12)

I know you guys were talking about Wes's wardrobe and how he's got swag,

E (58:15)

but who is talking about Wes and how he has swag?

F (58:17)

He looked like a slot bucket. What you talking about?

A (58:20)

Some people are saying he's got a fit.

E (58:22)

Likes to. I said he likes to wear scarves.

C (58:25)

He tries to dress like a mask lesbian and it doesn't work. Not a mask lesbian.

A (58:31)

He dresses like a literal peacock.

F (58:34)

Think about it. Yeah.

A (58:36)

You know the scarf he purrs over his head and under. It's like he.

F (58:40)

He dresses like a Zoomies ad out of 2009.

E (58:43)

Zoomies ad? His.

C (58:45)

He got lost in a Spencer's gift.

F (58:47)

Buried that.

A (58:47)

Oh my God, guys, it's literal peacocking. It's out there being bright colors, going out in the wild. Something that's an intention getter conversation starter. You know, he.

C (58:57)

I know he wore Nike Elite socks in.

E (58:59)

Oh my.

C (59:00)

You know what I mean? Yeah, I know he wore neon basketball shorts and an Under Armour shirt in Nike Elite socks. And I know he was not a pleasure to have in class for all of the girls. And he smelled so bad.

F (59:14)

Not the same.

C (59:15)

Like he needed a 72 hour deodorant.

A (59:19)

Before we let you go, Courtney, I mean, quick rapid fire. What are you. What are you loving on Bravo right now? Are you watching Rhode Island? Are you into I love Rhode Island. Okay, give us a little like what you love about Rhode Island.

F (59:32)

I love the fact that there seems to just be so much lore, like we're only a few episodes in. And it's like, oh, this guy was like with my Spanish teacher and knows my sister and my sister's friends with the mom. And I love that because it makes me feel like we've got years worth of stuff to dig into. And I really appreciate the fact that the women are so open. And Dolores always live for Dolores.

E (59:52)

It is nice to meet you.

F (59:52)

And I love Atlanta as well. Atlanta is giving me everything that I need thus far. Shout out to Cynthia Bailey. Interested to seeing more of K. Michelle and Pinky. We know that Pinky's going through the business struggles. Are you gonna come out of the other side? Okay, Kelly, what happened to the business? Because the waffle business closed down present day. So we're gonna see that, hopefully. Why did that happen? I don't know. A lot of the Bravo shows are kind of doing it for me right now, but specifically Rhode island and Atlanta. Beverly Hills. Shout out to them.

A (60:24)

Are you watching the Valley at all?

F (60:26)

Yeah, I love the Valley. I like the Valley because obviously I live not far from here, so it feels like the neighborhood show to me. I am curious about Britney's boyfriend on the show. He got real activated real quick. For someone that seemingly just signed a contract to be there in the background. That's a red flag for me if I'm Britney, and I don't want him dulling her sporkle. But I'm enjoying the Valley so far. Do we really hate Janet?

A (60:56)

I don't hate anyone.

F (60:57)

Be honest.

A (60:59)

I don't think she's someone that I particularly think I would befriend if I had the opportunity in.

F (61:06)

You know, Is she that bad?

C (61:07)

She's not that bad. It's kind of just like. I think it's just vibes. You know what I mean? It's just, like, compelling reality. She's not that compelling as a reality TV personality. And then she also pisses people off. But I don't mind her as a person.

A (61:20)

Yeah, I think she will be a very loyal friend to her friends, but it always comes at a price, and it's always really intense, and I think it eventually gets exhausting with a friend like Janet.

F (61:31)

Yeah. That's fair. I think they're managing well without Jax, which I think is like, the biggest thing for them. It feels lighter.

C (61:38)

It's watchable.

F (61:38)

It's a show about moms.

E (61:40)

Yeah.

F (61:40)

Moms and Zach. I'm here for it.

C (61:43)

Moms and Zack.

F (61:44)

Moms and Zach. I'm not mad at it.

C (61:45)

Yeah.

F (61:45)

And, you know, and I don't. And I want to say this. I don't mind Lacey and Michelle. What's t. Is Lacey crazy or are you exaggerating?

A (61:55)

Well, listen, when it comes to, like, watching your ex partner who you share a kid with, date someone fresh out of a divorce, I. I think it's hard not to lose Your shit. So I have a. A ton of empathy.

E (62:08)

Also, when they're, like, coming on a reality TV show, it's like, what are you doing, bitch? Like, what are your. You know, like, you were quick to sign on. So was Britney's boy. You know, it's just like, what are. What are the underground? What are the intentions going on here?

C (62:24)

Yeah, I. I do think it was interesting what Zach had said to Brittany about just, like, repeating patterns and, like, the red flag. And I was like, like, about this new guy and the fact that he immediately came on the show. I was just like, Jax, Jax Taylor 2.0. Like, but you didn't hear me say that.

F (62:39)

Brittany, we need you to listen to the. To your village right now.

C (62:43)

Yes.

F (62:43)

I think that Zach was passionate, but being a friend. Yeah, we don't need any Jack's energy on the Valley.

D (62:50)

Nope.

F (62:51)

We're trying to get another season.

C (62:52)

Yeah. I don't want to, like, feel like a chill run up my spine every time I turn on the Valley on Peacock. You know what I mean?

A (63:01)

Yeah. Like, anyway, I thought about that. I think. I think Bravo, when we were always talking about how, like, Bravo, like, always showcases, like, toxic men. I think it's weak men. I think they love weak men. I think they love men who love being the center of attention, who aren't really that interested in being, like.

E (63:17)

Because they don't have morals.

C (63:18)

They won't.

E (63:19)

They don't. It's not even about. Yeah, they're easy to produce.

C (63:22)

They'll do what you tell them.

E (63:24)

They do what you tell them. They're like, oh, this is gonna get you a lot more camera time, and you might get a brand deal, and a lot of girls are going to be in your dm, so you should say this, and you should do this. And they're like, oh, my God, they're only. And I'm going to do more than that, actually. Yeah.

A (63:38)

That's the thing. I don't. I think that's giving them too much credit where it's just like, I think they would do it like, that is their character. I get a lot of fulfillment and joy of showing up for the people I love, you know, of, you know, making sacrifices for the people I care about to not always prioritize myself first for the people I say I care about the most. And you just never say, see that with men in Bravo, it's always, what about me? It's always like, that energy. And I think that's. And, yeah, it plays for great tv, but I think they're more weak than they are toxic. I mean, they're toxic, too, but I think it's because they weaponize their weakness in the form of, like, I shouldn't, I don't know better. You know, I'm helpless. I can't, you know, what am I supposed to do? What about me? And I just think, yeah, Courtney, I appreciate you coming on, man. Where can the people find you? Enjoy all the great things that you're doing outside of coming on our show.

F (64:27)

You can find me on Instagram at Courtney Revolution and on the TikTok at Court Revolution. That's where I'm at.

A (64:33)

All right, we'll give them a follow. Courtney, you'll have to definitely come back. Up next, we have the wonderful and talented and legendary Mark L. Wahlberg to talk about all things Temptation island two and help us preview the upcoming reunion that drops tomorrow exclusively on the Vols. If you're a homeowner, whether you've owned your place forever or you're a first time buyer, you already know this stuff is going to break. It's not a matter of if, it's when. Many homeowners dealt with some kind of breakdown just in the last year, and without a home warranty, those fixes can cost thousands. That's why we're big fans of American Home Shield at AHS Home Warranty helps protect your wallet from covered home systems and appliance breakdowns. No matter how old the system or appliance, that H Vac system that came with your home and has trouble heating the house, American Home Shield can help. They can help fit parts of major home systems like H Vac, plumbing and electrical, plus kitchen and laundry appliances. And if a covered item can't be repaired, they'll replace it. Owning a home is stressful enough. American Home Shield helps make it a little easier. Listeners can get 20% off select plans today. Just visit ahs.com vialfiles to sign up. See ahs.com contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations and exclusions. This episode is brought to you by Better Help People. We've talked about the benefits of therapy for some time now, and we understand that it can be challenging to jump into therapy. It can be intimidating. You don't know how to find a therapist that you feel comfortable with. Certainly it can be inconvenient. It feels like there's never a good time for it. BetterHelp is helping alleviate all those pain points. When it comes to therapy, we care so much about our physical health, things like diet and exercise, but what about our mental health? It's just, if not more important to prioritize. And it's always helpful to get things that are stressing out off your chest, whether it's financial stress or relationships stress. And sometimes financial stress causes relationship stress. But whatever is weighing you down, get it off your chest with better help. They are working with over 30,000 therapists nationwide to help ensure that you can find a therapist that you feel comfortable with and you can switch for free as many times as you want until you land with a therapist that you're comfortable with. Also, it's incredibly convenient. All you need is a device to connect with and you can even do it voice to voice. So if you're more comfortable not sharing a screen, then you can do that as well. It's all about convenience and comfortability so that you can get these the therapy help that you need. So if you have been thinking about, considering, or even just wondering if therapy can help get you pointed into the right direction, just check out BetterHelp. Answer a few questions about the type of therapy you're looking for and you could be talking to a mental health professional in no time. So get it off your chest with better help. Sign up and get 10 off at betterhelp.com v I a l l that's betterhelp H-E-P.com v I a l l

E (67:13)

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A (68:59)

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E (69:40)

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D (70:14)

I'm spilling all the things I didn't want to say before you even start.

A (70:17)

There you go.

E (70:17)

That's how you do It.

A (70:18)

Well, if you're. If you're okay with me saying this, I. I just. I hope. I want to. I hope you're comfortable, but you're.

D (70:23)

Hold on. I can't say if I'm okay with it before.

E (70:25)

That's true.

A (70:26)

You're an excellent host, man.

D (70:28)

Why would I. That.

F (70:28)

I don't know.

A (70:29)

Some people like my feeling comfortable with that. I mean, like, all the time.

D (70:32)

But I appreciate.

A (70:33)

I just. I have so much respect for you. When we're watching Temptation Island, I was talking to Natalie, and just like, you know, it's one thing we cover these shows, and we've been watching reality TV for years, and, you know, I've seen a lot of host work and things like that, and now that Natalie and I are hosting our own show, you guys killed it.

D (70:50)

Congratulations.

A (70:51)

Natalie Crushed it. I did fine.

D (70:52)

You did crush it.

E (70:53)

Definitely no Mark Wahlberg yet.

A (70:55)

You really are exceptional. I don't know if people appreciate how good you are. You like your presence is felt, and.

D (71:01)

Thanks, brother.

A (71:02)

I appreciate that. I hope that as I get more experience hosting and hopefully age of attractions around for a long time, you're definitely someone that I really try to emulate. Thank you.

D (71:12)

I appreciate that. Let me say this to that, though. When we compare host jobs from different shows, the shows demand a different skill set. Your show, Love is Blind, and those shows, they're not needing the host to get involved in the content. That's not part of the structure. Structure of the show. So I thought you guys served Age of Attraction perfectly. You were brilliant. You were good. You were brilliant. I'm just messing with you, but I always try to make that distinction, that my show kind of somehow has evolved where I'm in the content. And so that was never my intention, but that's what the show showed up. So thanks for the compliment, but I think if I were hosting your show or any other show, I would be kind of doing what you're doing, too.

A (71:50)

Nevertheless, the way. Because to your point, you know, when it comes to hosting, as you know, it's like you're not the star of the show. You're a servant to the show. You're there to carry it forward. You're just there to help the audience. But you are obviously a big part of Temptation island, and you're a big reason why it works, because, again, like, the, you know, the premise of Temptation island is titillating. You know, you got couples showing up.

D (72:13)

Titillating is the kindest description I've heard.

A (72:15)

Scandalous. Whatever. Whatever you want to call it. But, like, ludicrous, but.

E (72:20)

But you.

A (72:21)

You bring so much groundedness to it that it becomes a relationship show that allows audience members and why we like the shows that we cover to, like, unpack it, you know, talk about these relationships. It's not just about, like the. The threesomes or whatever it is.

D (72:37)

Here's the deal with that. It was a subconscious and then conscious choice on my part when it first came out back in the day, you know, right after World War II, I was a young guy coming back from

A (72:48)

overseas my sophomore year of college.

D (72:50)

Yeah, we did the show and there was no plan. Right. It was kind of. We were in it and everybody was scrambling and I kind of did my thing and I've been hosting a long time, so I had some skills in that area. But the whole point I said was, I'm going to foster conversation, but then edit me out of this. But what I found is, you know, from a hosting standpoint, you got. You've got a choice here. You can look at the train wreck concept of Temptation island and wring your hands and lean into. I hope they cheat. What can I do to make this happen happen? Or you can be a human. And the choice that I've kind of made, which was a subconscious choice, but now an actual choice, is that regardless of what you guys think, regardless of why they even chose to come here, I'm going to try to look at you. And I always say to them, I'm more committed to this outcome for you and your relationship than you are. And while this is a TV show, I'm the one taking it seriously. I'm buying what I'm selling. Selling maybe more than even the concept asked for. And so I feel like even in the craziest situations, judgment really doesn't have a place here. Humanity does. And so that's kind of the way I approach it.

E (73:59)

How much do you know about the couples and their separate experiences? Are you finding out, along with the girls at the bonfire, what the guys are doing?

D (74:09)

For the most part. I mean, here's how it goes.

F (74:12)

And you.

D (74:12)

Now that you've had a show, you probably understand we share an executive producer, so. And I'm a little jealous about that. I don't really want to unpack that here, but so in these shows for the viewers, often, though, the producers will put out a hot sheet, which is basically a recap of what. Where the stories are at any given time. This happened last night, blah, blah, blah. Not very detailed. And I get that most times, sometimes I'm not on the Distribution list. I have to ask, but I'll read that to kind of be aware of where they are. But more than that, I don't ask. I don't know if something crazy has happened. Usually I'll hear about it. But I. I have made a point. I've told them this is how I roll. I don't want to see the clips beforehand, even if I know what's in the clip, which happens rarely, but sometimes, like, I knew Brion was doing what Brionne did, season one, right. I didn't see it. Quite frankly, I don't want to look at it now. But the reason I do that, so that when the clip rolls, I can meet, see them where they are and see it with fresh eyes as they see it. And if you'll notice, normally my question is, what did you see? Because what I see and what the viewers see is not what you saw. For instance, Mikey spun out on her biting her lip. I didn't even notice that because it's not a trigger for me. So for me, I've been on TV enough and have hosted enough that I'm not thinking about TV at that point. So it affords me the luxury of being able to say, let's get. Just roll and see what happens. And. And I got, I got an earpiece. If I lose my track, they'll put me back on track.

A (75:44)

But, yeah, well, this season is a little different. Season two on Netflix, obviously, you've been doing this for a very long time. I've really enjoyed this season in contrast to season. Well, I love season one, but it was, it was really cool to see this season being different, where it was more the women challenging their relationships. And it seemed to be the women,

D (76:02)

the guys were in their feelings, the

A (76:03)

guys were in their feelings. And it was the women feeling a little undervalued, underappreciated. You know, it's always different when it's the other way around. Was that fun for you to have that change of pace? And then. Second question to that is, over the years of Temptation island, has that been a common back and forth or how unique is it to have a season like this where it was like, really the women challenging the men and the men being in their feelings and feeling like they had to prove to their women partners that they were up for it, where it was like the men, like last season, really, like, taking advantage of this perceived freedom?

D (76:39)

This was different.

A (76:40)

Yeah.

D (76:41)

Overall and generally speaking, this one was different in that it was much more of an emotional ride than a, you know, sex Romp ride. Right. Kind of like that. But every season I've done. And I've done them from way back. And then there was a big break in usa. We did several. They're always different. And it. And. And it may be like the guys wilding out of two out of the four and then the girls are weak, but then strong. Two out of the four or three out of the four. This one was different in that the guys are really in their feelings. A couple of them were really working hard to grow and a couple of them. It was a little squirrely for me to figure out what's going to land for them. Which is the challenge I like is that when you're doing a bonfire, it's like doing a, A, a one on one talk show eight times in one night. And so you're switching gears. Okay, now. All right, so that's not this. Let's go here. And so that's a little bit of a challenge that I dig. And when you see the lights go on, like an epiphany or feelings happen from the conversation. I like that part.

E (77:45)

When you said to Summit, I think it was. I don't know exactly what I said, but you were like, that's it. He was like, oh, I didn't think

A (77:51)

you were going to say that.

D (77:52)

What I liked about science, so human, is that. And I was saying this the other day is like, I. I used to play a lot of basketball. I played in this league with the celebrity league of basketball that I really had no right to be in, both as a player or celebrity. Neither one was at the level. But there were like three different kinds of players. There were people in there that could ball out. They knew it and they could do it. And there were people like me who knew that they weren't great. So they knew exactly what role to play on the basketball court, stayed in the lane, did the thing right. But then 80% of them were people who were terrible at basketball but thought they were great.

F (78:25)

Yeah.

D (78:26)

So in this application of that very terrible metaphor is that what I liked about Summit was there were parts of his emotional intelligence. He hadn't grown yet, and he was aware of it and down. So rather than doing what men often do and women do too, but men generally defending a position, he's. I never thought of that.

E (78:46)

That.

D (78:47)

So there was a hunger.

A (78:48)

He was open.

D (78:49)

Right. So when that happens, I'm like, we, let's go. Yeah, we. We can build a man here. Right. And he really, I thought, did some great stuff. And I give Cole credit too. Because Cole, at whatever level he was able to do, was doing the best he could, you know, and so Mikey too, and. And Jack. So, you know, you have to have a willingness to have that discussion and. And the awareness to have some ownership in what you don't know. Because if your stance, as we've seen on love is blind, I wanted to talk as the people in love is blind. If your stance is, here's what went down. These are the facts. That's what's up. If you don't get that, that's what you up. The thing that's missing is it's not right or wrong. It's is what you're saying being received with love. You may mean it with love, but I said that to summit. You may be giving criticisms to stuff from a place of being loving, but if it's not being received as love, then you need to check yourself, find different language, listen harder, speak into that.

A (79:49)

So was there a couple that intrigued their story or their situation intrigued you maybe more than the others?

D (79:57)

Yeah. This is a good question, Nick. I. I had more trouble getting a bite on Jack and Cheyenne. Yeah, I. I feel like there were parts of the story that I wasn't privy to that came out later. And there were times where they would say stuff to me and I would respond to it. Expect a response based on that, and it wouldn't add up. And that made me go, something's a little hinky. I can't figure that out. Love them both. Really think she's a very strong woman. That's just incredible. And I think that this real beautiful vulnerability about Jack as well, on his path of whatever he's learned. Learning. But that was a little tricky for me, the Mikey one. And Sydney, I had an immediate affection for Mikey.

C (80:41)

I like Mikey.

D (80:42)

Yeah, you just want to cuddle him, right? Although. And the fans have said it, like, all the tears and all that stuff, they're like, come on, bro. But what I was trying to say to him is, look, there are parts of who you are, Mikey, that I relate to. Okay? We have a skill set. It's a people pleasing skill set where we know how to be on and keep everybody in the room happy. But how does that make you feel at the end of the day? And so I think we have this exchange where he's like, it's all good. And I'm like, no, it's not fucking all good, dude. Yeah, sometimes it's all fucking bad.

A (81:14)

He wears that it's all good mask a lot.

D (81:16)

Yeah, don't we all though. I mean, it's easier to just do that and then we don't have to talk about it.

A (81:21)

Yeah. And it's interesting because as to your point, like, people pleasing. I think a lot of people pleasers relate to this. Like, it's often at the detriment to yourself or the people. People closest to you, you know, your romantic partners. Often people who are in relationships with romantic partners who are people pleasers will feel like they're always prioritizing the masses rather than like, well, even when you're

D (81:42)

people pleasing your partner. Here's the trick. Here's the elusive part in that is a people pleaser. And sometimes in the narcissist world, I'm not a. I'm not a clinical expert, so it was just stuff I picked up along the way that may, May or may not be accurate. The point being is that when we manage other people by pleasing them rather than being honest with them, we don't realize that what we're actually doing is disrespecting their ability to handle the truth. And so what we're doing is with Cole.

A (82:11)

Yeah.

D (82:11)

You're not telling. You're not cheating and doing crazy shit. You're just telling lies are a little bit shady because it's easier and you're fearful of how she'll react. But basically what you're saying is, I don't think you are adult enough to handle the truth. And when you give the respect to your partner, go, look, I'm going to just lay this out. More often than not, you realize that they can handle everything. As a matter of fact, they know your truth.

E (82:36)

Yeah.

D (82:36)

And so I think that that's the. The delusion that those of us who tend to people please or are to some degree narcissistic, think that if we make everybody happy and we manage their stuff and they're all smiling, then that's winning the game and being kind and loving. And it comes from a kind and loving place. But it's not particularly respectful.

E (82:55)

Well, especially because we had Sidney say, like, to Mikey, I make myself smaller so that you can be bigger. And it's like, clearly this. He's got just like this big personality that takes over rooms. So much so that to the point where she's like, I feel like I can't shine at all.

D (83:13)

Well, and what's great about that is that I don't know if they'd had that conversation before for. Yeah, because there's a way for that to exist and it'll still be okay.

E (83:22)

Totally.

D (83:23)

And mostly is by letting someone know. So that way it allows Sydney to let him shine or let any partner to let their partner shine, as long as the partner is aware that there also needs a time where you shut that down and let them shine.

C (83:39)

Yeah.

D (83:39)

Right. And that's why relationships are nearly impossible.

A (83:43)

Do you. Does your wife enjoy watching the show with you?

C (83:46)

You.

D (83:46)

Oh, she. She enjoys watching the show more than I enjoy watching the show. I don't like watching the show.

A (83:52)

No.

D (83:53)

Well, one. Because I'm on it and I can't stand to watch that.

C (83:56)

Fair. Outside of that part, though.

D (83:58)

Yeah. Yeah. I got a lot to talk about there.

E (84:00)

Therapy.

D (84:03)

But Robbie's great because. And I've said this a million times over. You probably heard me say it. But a lot of the stuff I say, the bonfire is a product of what she has. We have talked about or she has drilled into me. And I have been resistant to here. Right. And I'm going to be honest with you. Half the advice that I'm giving out comes out as advice. As advice I should be taking.

E (84:24)

Yeah.

D (84:24)

And. And people often think that the things I'm saying are because I've learned this. And in fact, the things I'm saying is because I'm grappling with this.

E (84:33)

You have a daughter, right?

D (84:34)

I have a daughter and a son.

E (84:35)

You have a daughter and a son. What have you instilled in your daughter through dating and relationships throughout her life that has, like, made her realize her worth?

D (84:45)

I don't know if I've instilled much. I think I have in. You know what's interesting? You. You have a young child and children baking while we speak.

A (84:53)

Yeah.

D (84:53)

I may have been insensitive, but I

A (84:54)

think you know what I mean.

E (84:55)

No, it was not insensitive at all.

D (84:57)

You start as a deity with your children. Everything you say is godlike. They buy it hook, line, and sinker. Then you become a scholar or advisor, but then at some point, you become the student. And that's where I am now.

A (85:09)

Now.

D (85:09)

So I'm learning from my son and my daughter the practical applications of the lessons I try to teach them as young kids, but they have actualized when they actually thought it was real. And then I'm getting it back on. Okay. Wow. So what I'd hoped I had instilled with my daughter is one, a healthy relationship with her father. Because I think a lot of times with women, it's the abandonment issue and the searching for love that they then mirror and model in their relationship with men. And that's why they usually have, like, you know, a sweet gay best friend and then some horrible dude that they're banging. Because that sex is good, but I need the intimacy over here. Right. And so I feel like our intimate relationship growing up has made her a stronger woman, has made me a better dad and a better person. What I hope that she has taken and what I see her doing is no one needs a partner. You get to have a partner so you're complete. And the answer is, if there's a guy that enhances your experience, come along. But I'm not empty until. Yeah, right. And so I think she. She has a social media lifestyle brand that's doing really well called Lazy ballerina club@lazyballerinaclub.com. buy the merch right now. But because I'm a dad.

E (86:29)

Yeah, support.

D (86:30)

But the whole point of it is she was a professional ballerina, and this translates to relationships. What she's saying is, in her ethos basically, is we're not what we do. We have to have worth and not take it from an outside source. So as a dancer, you're not just a dancer in the company, you're a human first who dances. And until you give yourself that space to be okay without the validation and in opposition to criticism, then you're just gonna be looking for love in all the wrong places.

A (87:03)

Before we started recording, you mentioned that you don't know where the couples stand today. Like, you haven't had much of an update since they left the island.

D (87:12)

Okay, I've had zero update, and it may be because I didn't ask.

A (87:17)

We do have the reunion, which we felt very grateful to host. Hopefully with your blessing. It's all good.

D (87:23)

You do a fine job, and I'm glad it works out. And what's important is that the audience gets to see the stories. And I'm going to watch your podcast because I'd like to know the answer.

A (87:30)

We were very honored to be able to do it and very fascinated to unpack these relationships. Do you have any guesses into.

D (87:37)

Yeah, I have some guesses. Are you going to tell me if I'm right or wrong? Is this going to drop before that drops?

A (87:42)

Yeah, it drops the next day.

E (87:46)

I think you're probably right.

D (87:47)

I have a feeling that more are together than apart.

A (87:50)

Okay.

D (87:50)

I have a feeling that there have been some reconciliations or never really quite actually, a breakup would be my guess. Let me just qualify this by saying, and I don't fucking care, and I'll tell you why. I mean, I do care, but I don't care. About that, because. And I say this to people who are going through what feels like trauma on the show in the middle of, like, Mikey situation, stuff like that. I'm like, the show ends today, but life and relationship doesn't. Yeah, some of you will find your way back. Some of you won't. Somebody find something better. And the number of people who've been on the show, both singles and couples who've been on the show and in the next relationship that they enter into after the show, that becomes a forever relationship, is uncanny to me. Right. So when I say I don't care, what I mean is I'm not keeping score. That what you said in the final bonfire, I need to hold you to. And now you got back together and what was the hustle? I don't care about the hustle. I don't care about that part. I care that you're happy.

A (88:45)

Happy.

D (88:46)

Right. I care that you've. You. Your relationship is better than it was. It's what I say on the show. I hope that you leave the island in a better place than when you came here. How that shows up and what the audience thinks about that, that's their opinion.

A (88:57)

Well, I'm excited for people to watch Reunion. There's. There's definitely a lot there. Part one tomorrow, part two on Friday. For anyone listening. But it was, I will say this. It was evident that their experiences affected them in a positive, positive way.

D (89:11)

I was waiting to hear you say, like, do I need to worry if I see them on the street?

A (89:15)

No, I think, again, like, it's. There's. There's a laugh to unpack. And, yeah, I don't want to give anything away, but, you know, you're the host of the show. But again, it was. It was evident that the experience. For whether it was the couples who are no longer together or ones who have reconciled that experience and that experience I had with you was clearly positive.

D (89:41)

I'm glad to hear that.

A (89:42)

Again, I think when you look at a show like Temptation island, you're not going to assume there's growth. You're not going to assume there's a healthy output.

D (89:53)

You know what my stock line is when I'm playing golf? I usually play golf. I walk on as a single because I won't get a tee time because I never know what I'm going to play. I'm usually playing with guys I have no idea who I am. And about four or five holes in, they start asking, and I'm like, yeah, I work in tv. What do you do? I host A show? What show? And then I say, I host Temptation Island. Like, oh, really? What's that about? And my stock line is, it's a dating show that looks like porn and feels like Oprah.

A (90:15)

Yeah, that's great.

C (90:17)

That's absolutely true.

D (90:18)

My point about that is I say to all of them, look, you come to the island. Some of you are here for altruistic reasons. Some of you are also, in addition to that, looking for clout and brand deals and stuff like that.

F (90:32)

That.

D (90:33)

Not mad at that. I'll support that. But what I say to them is, I don't think you realize that this show and this experience, as crazy as it is, gets very real. I can't explain that it shouldn't. It's farcical in some senses, but it gets real really quickly. And I try to tell them the sooner you lean into being real on it, both outcomes, your relationship gets stronger, or you get clarity and you get brand deals. Because people like authentic, right? They like real. So when I say, I don't care, what I'm saying is the outcome, I'm not keeping score on it, right? And if they leave with some clearer understanding of who they are, that informs their next relationship, then cool.

C (91:18)

When you're. When you're hosting and you have someone in the cast, do something that you just like. Like, you're so icked out by it in the right word. Not even, like, I feel like people can do stuff you definitely wouldn't do.

A (91:33)

Be me yourself, I guess.

C (91:35)

I guess just something that, like, you really are. Like, I can't believe you did that. Like, how do you just really, I guess, compartmentalize that and still, like, look at that situation with empathy and do what you're so good at doing on the show.

D (91:48)

First of all, thank you for that question and the flowers on end of that. Look, maybe it's natural for me and not natural for everybody, so I'm going to give myself a little credit. But it's also a conscious choice that there's no place for judgment of any kind in this. Quite frankly, in anything. I mean, judgment just does not serve anything except making the person who's judging feel bigger by standing on the neck of somebody else. So a good example is Grant and Brion from season one. Okay. I hear Breon talking about how he loves this girl, and I see what he's doing. So judgment makes you go, let me tell you why this is wrong. But openness and acceptance of it makes you ask questions like, how are you able to compartmentalize this? Where you're not thinking about the person you say you're in love with while you're doing this physical act. That's not an indictment. That's like something we can look at. That there's part of what is you've been programmed to that you for whatever reason soothing yourself or, or whatever, you're able to go there and it's separate than here. And when we did unpack that, as a matter of fact, when I had him on my podcast after that, Brian. Because they didn't come to your reunion, but they came to mind my podcast. And I said to him, I owe you an apology. And I owe you an apology because had I been a little bit more aware, I would have asked the question earlier about his childhood and upbringing and foster care and abuse and all that stuff that makes one compartmentalize intimacy. So that's why dance. Your question in a long way is that judgment doesn't allow you to have that conversation.

C (93:28)

Yeah.

D (93:29)

Acceptance without judgment allows you to go. Now how could that. How in that person's mind can this reconcile and then what. What that allows you to do is to say back to them what they say that usually helps them crack open. Oh my God. I didn't think about that.

C (93:44)

Yeah.

D (93:45)

So that's, that's that.

C (93:47)

Awesome. Thanks for answering.

A (93:50)

We. We tackle this a little bit at the reunion. But I'm curious your perspective. Another thing I really enjoyed about this season with the men being in their feelings and the women seeming to be a little bit more in.

D (94:02)

Empowered.

A (94:02)

Empowered and control. Like they seem to have hold the power in these relationships more than the men. And as a result, I think this season is, I think a reminder that I think is men. I don't even think often men realize this about themselves. And I just think us people in relationships don't realize this, but like men are able to detach from sex easier in general. I think often.

D (94:28)

I mean, I'll go with the generalization. I try to stay away from those gender assignments because I've seen women do the same thing.

A (94:33)

Understood.

C (94:33)

Yeah.

D (94:33)

I think past trauma allows us to compartmentalize and disassociate.

A (94:38)

Not even like maybe detach, but just like I think just the emotional reaction from sex. We generally respond differently. Body.

D (94:46)

Let's go with this for the case of this argument.

A (94:47)

But when the men saw like for example, Mikey, when Mikey saw Sidney make out with Xavier, his initial response, that was the first time it looked like he really loved Sydney.

E (95:00)

He was like, we can get through this.

A (95:01)

We can get through this. We can fight for this relationship, when the men heard the women speak badly about them, that's when they were really hurt. It wasn't the physical boundary being crossed. It was the emotional boundary being crossed by the men. And I think that's more common than people realize that men realize. Because I think men, when they're in the kind of hookup phase in their life, I think they can understand how they can go from one to another without, like, really getting emotional, connected. But the. When they feel safe with a woman.

D (95:32)

Right. Yeah. Young men, sometimes sex is no different than a pickup game of basketball.

F (95:37)

Sure.

D (95:37)

Right. Feels good, it's fun, and I'm out of breath at the end of it. No, emotional. So I think there's some truth to what you're saying, Nick. I think I often ask the question, as things are revealed both to women and men, which is a deeper cut, seeing something physical happen or something emotional. If somebody. In other words, somebody's having an affair and they're just banging it out with a stranger, does that hurt more than not having sex but being emotionally in love with somebody else? And I think the emotional thing is the part that actually, I think on the surface, it doesn't register, but when you actually see it, like in Mikey, oh, my God, what does this actually mean? That's all that matters. That's all that matters. Everything else can be forgiven. Right. Or should be, at least the capacity for forgiveness. So, you know, the one thing I keep saying to everybody on the show and I think is kind of speaks to this, is we come into this show, into this life, and into this relationship with it, what we think is a definition of what love is. And every time we think we're in love and then it falls apart, we redefine it. And it's like, no, that wasn't it, but this is. And then now that wasn't it, but this is. Until you get the one that sticks. And so I think what this process is, you see things that are visceral, you hear things that hurt your ego, that attack the male ego specifically, and then it makes you have a feeling. And then what I'm kind of trying to coach to is if it brings up a feeling, that's an answer of actually how this. At what level this matters to you. And if it doesn't bring up a feeling, that's a bigger answer. That this is just not it.

C (97:12)

Yeah.

D (97:13)

And so. So, yeah, I. I think the emotional betrayal cuts deeper.

A (97:17)

Yeah. Yeah. It's always fascinating because I think we take that for granted, because when it comes to Crossing those boundaries in relationship, we'd always just assume it's the physical one that cuts the most. But, yeah, it's rarely the case.

D (97:28)

Yeah. You know, if we look at the physical one as simply a symptom of something else.

A (97:32)

Yeah.

D (97:33)

You know, but yeah, when. When you see someone that you love or at least want, sometimes you don't even love them. You just want them to love you, and they're saying stuff that's running you down. From a male standpoint, the attack on the ego just is like, let's go. Right. Just fight or flight. And it's the cut that really hurts because emasculation is a painful thing. You know, unfortunately, we're programmed to measure. We're always comparing. Right. And that's also. There's no win in that, ever.

A (98:03)

Well, Mark, it's always great to talk with you. I love the show. I love you as the host, and I hope to continue to take some tidbits from. From what you do.

D (98:13)

I've stolen it from somewhere else, so take it, whatever.

A (98:15)

We could.

D (98:16)

Look, it's a. It's a collective tribe mentality on this stuff.

A (98:21)

Final question. What has been the key to your longevity in this business?

D (98:25)

Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. I think. Well, from a philosophical standpoint, I must say. Yes. I'll figure it out later, dude. Right. I don't. I don't believe in plan. I think plan limits your possibility. I talk about this a lot. There's a quote in Hamlet. I've never seen Hamlet or read it because that would be homework. But there's one quote that says, there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Which is to say that if I'm going to make a plan is limited by my human ability to imagine, which is limited. So I can only think pretty much linearly. And almost everything that's happened in my career has happened off the page of possibility. Not even likelihood. But, like, this is not going to happen. Shows that were canceled in 2004 don't come back and are alive in 26. It doesn't happen, but it has. So I think the key to my longevity is one as best I can, staying true to whatever my authentic truth is, whether it's comedy, game show, reality show, dating show, whatever, and just being willing to, you know, be versatile, learning how to be versatile. And it really comes to. There's an audience, either live or on tv. There is a language they can hear. And how willing am I to suspend what I want to preach to use the language they can hear. And that's kind of kept me alive for a few decades here.

A (99:49)

Well, it's a great show. It is streaming now on Netflix. We have the reunion tomorrow. Part one one is on Wednesday. Part two is on Friday. Come back anytime, man.

D (99:59)

Thanks, brother.

A (100:00)

You're in the neighborhood where anything you want to plug promote before we let you.

D (100:03)

Yeah, I mean, okay. I mean, I've got a podcast that's a little on hiatus, but I'm about to relaunch it@bonfire talkspodcast. But I'm going to try to develop this into is what what I want it to be. I've actually been watching your podcast and others to kind of learn how to do this better. But I'm looking forward to having people from all kinds of reality shows on on to have a conversation that's less about spilling the tea and recap a little bit more about the kind of conversations we're having today. Awesome. So that and maybe a book. I mean, we talked about that before I came on. I'm a little stuck, but maybe I'll get that happening. But dude, I'm just trying to get, you know, my golf game together and I just finished rebuilding my laundry room. So there you go.

E (100:43)

Congrats. Yeah. Did you come back for an ass nick?

A (100:46)

I was 100% for.

D (100:48)

For do it yourself home repair or for emotional.

E (100:51)

If you would like to do some home repair at our house. House. We definitely have some more.

A (100:54)

We have a segment called Ask Nick. We sometimes bring celebrity. Yeah, you should come back.

D (100:59)

Well, I'll come back to you as a celebrity or a guest who needs help. I don't care.

A (101:04)

We would love for you to. For sure.

D (101:06)

I'm in the neighborhood, dude. I live around the corner.

F (101:07)

So come back anytime.

E (101:08)

Great.

D (101:09)

Hey. Safety, happiness, health and an easy pregnancy and easy birth.

E (101:14)

Thank you. Thank you.

D (101:14)

And you stay out of the way.

A (101:20)

Thank you to all our guests, Courtney Revolution and Mark L. Wahlberg for joining us today and thank you for listening. Don't forget to tune in to the temptation Island Season 2 reunion that airs tomorrow, 8pm Eastern, 5pm Pacific. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye. Bye.

C (101:44)

Foreign

A (101:48)

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