E1120 - Ask Nick - I Found His Second Family On TikTok

Summary

The Viall Files — Episode E1120 Summary

Episode Title: Ask Nick – I Found His Second Family On TikTok
Host: Nick Viall
Date: May 4, 2026
Episode Theme:
This “Ask Nick” installment focuses on relationship struggles related to emotional attachment, unfulfilled love stories, the pain of inconsistent partners, and the journey toward post-breakup healing. Three callers — Amy, Mia, and Olivia — share stories about emotionally unavailable men, the dangers of romanticizing the past, and how to reclaim one’s narrative after heartbreak and betrayal.

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Call 1: Amy — “Twenty Years of Almosts”

Timestamps: [03:25 – 26:22]

Story Overview

• Amy (39) has known a man since she was 17 — an “off and on” dynamic over 20 years, though with extended periods without contact. Recent emotional re-connection and spending nights together reignited her hopes, but he's consistently inconsistent, backing off after moments of closeness.
• He's a 43-year-old recovering addict, has not achieved career/financial independence (supported by wealthy family), and is described as unreliable.

Key Insights & Nick’s Advice

• Romanticized Narratives:

  • Nick encourages Amy to distinguish between reality and her idealized version of the story.
    • Quote:
      • Nick: “I feel like you’re romanticizing your history a little bit... we can feel these really intense connections, and they just have very little to do with the actual person... We romanticize something in our head so much that that’s what we’re falling in love with, not the actual person.” [09:34]

• Patterns of Inconsistency:

  • The only thing consistent about this man is his emotional inconsistency and unreliability.
  • Words and grand promises (e.g., “I could marry you right now, I see us having a house on a lake”) never match up with action or long-term commitment.

• On Unreciprocated Effort:

  • Nick challenges Amy’s perspective that her distress is “because of him,” urging her to take responsibility for continually engaging in a dynamic that doesn’t serve her.
    • Quote:
      • Nick: “You have the power to give yourself more... You have chosen to keep waiting around for this guy. You are playing a game with yourself, and at some point, you just need to accept who he is.” [14:18–15:31]

• Chemistry’s Role:

  • Chemistry and emotional intensity can be misleading — not always rooted in health or compatibility.
    • Quote:
      • Nick: “Chemistry is one aspect of a relationship, certainly a healthy one. Chemistry is often manufactured. It can be a body response to something negative... You have to want more for yourself than just these intense feelings that you can’t explain.” [23:31–24:57]

• Emotional Health:

  • Amy admits her emotional attachment feels “out of control.” Nick recommends therapy:
    • “It might take some time to find a therapist that’s right for you, but this is something you need to work through... it’s going to be a challenge to get over it.” [25:19]

Memorable Moments

• Amy realizing she’s been the constant in a one-sided story:

  • “I like what you said though about stop being shocked whenever he does stuff like that.” [15:31]

• Nick’s firm but compassionate push to drop the fantasy:

  • “At 39 years old... when you’re falling in love, especially as an adult, I think you should feel in control and still be happy... you’re describing feeling out of control and calling it a good thing.” [19:28]

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Call 2: Mia — “The Once a Month Man”

Timestamps: [29:12 – 54:10]

Story Overview

• Mia (32) feels huge chemistry with a man she’s known for 1.5 years, but is confused by his refusal to commit and his erratic, minimal engagement. He lives with his father, is busy “getting his life together,” and struggles with debt — using these as reasons for not seeing her more than about once a month.

Key Insights & Nick’s Advice

• Unmet Relationship Goals:

  • Mia realizes in conversation that she’s drastically reduced her expectations (“I’d probably want to spend two days a week with him”) to match his limited availability — but her true dreams are for a live-in partner and daily connection.
    • Quote:
      • Nick: “Over the years, you have diminished what your dreams are and have settled on what you think you can get. You shouldn’t allow someone in your life to make you dream smaller.” [35:27–35:41]

• Redefining “Chemistry”:

  • He brings hot cocoa and shares movie quotes, but gives no consistent time or acts of service (ironically, her top love languages).
  • Nick encourages her to question whether her sense of “connection” is based on true compatibility or simply on scarcity and longing.
    • Quote:
      • Nick: “You have starved yourself of really nice moments so much that when it happens, you get... overwhelmed by them.” [41:41]

• Cycle of Self-Negotiation:

  • Mia has negotiated herself into ever-diminishing standards while centering her happiness on moments with someone who gives little in return.
    • Quote:
      • “You centered your happiness around this guy who’s giving you nothing... you’ve convinced yourself that two days a week with him would be so much better. But that’s not what you want for yourself.” [46:09]

• Call to Self-Focus:

  • Nick urges Mia to stop competing for crumbs, focus on her own goals, and consider therapy — with emphasis on building her own dreams, investing in herself, and refusing to be defined by a man’s inconsistency.
    • Quote:
      • “Write down your relationship goals, take all the men out of the equation, just focus on what you want for yourself… When people don’t give you what you want, then they’re not your person.” [51:12]

Memorable Moments

• Mia’s realization:

  • “Who wants to start a relationship like that anyway?” [46:09]

• Nick's encouragement to "dream big":

  • “I think you should dream big. It’s going to take some work on your part.” [48:13]

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Call 3: Olivia — “I Found His Second Family On TikTok”

Timestamps: [56:54 – 97:25]

Story Overview

• Olivia (32) was blindsided by divorce two years ago. Her ex-husband blamed her for not making enough money, wanting to focus on taking care of his parents, and criticized her intelligence and homemaking abilities — only for Olivia to learn much later via TikTok that he remarried, had an affair during their separation, and fathered a child with another woman.
• Olivia feels stuck — oscillating between anger, lingering self-doubt, and inability to fully move forward.

Key Insights & Nick’s Advice

• On Narrative vs. Reality:

  • Nick pushes her to stop asking “why” and focus on “what” actually happened. Understanding the cause of his behavior is less important than moving on and reclaiming her own story.
    • Quote:
      • Nick: “You have made this into who you are... you have become so obsessed with this story because honestly, it’s juicy and it’s crazy and it’s your own life and you got a front row seat to it... But now, you’re obsessed with it, and it’s holding you back.” [77:12]

• Letting Go & Reclaiming Identity:

  • Olivia is encouraged to minimize obsessive ruminations about her ex and his new partner, to stop reliving and oversharing the “dramatic” story, and to shift focus toward her impressive growth (she’s about to finish nursing school).
    • Quote:
      • Nick: “Your story is: I survived a really bad divorce, and I got over and duped by my ex-husband... I reinvented myself later in life, I accomplished this really cool dream, I’m resilient... That needs to be your new story.” [90:08]

• Victimhood and Moving Forward:

  • The narrative of being the “girl who got cheated on and replaced” must be replaced by one of resilience and agency.
    • Quote:
      • “You were a victim, don’t get me wrong. But... it’s not the whole story. I’m guessing you don’t want your story to be ‘I’m a victim.’” [92:17]

• Letting Go of Why:

  • “You need to stop thinking of him. It doesn’t define you… Stop telling your story at parties, stop getting attention for it, let it go. Your body is telling you you’re exhausted by this narrative. It’s really ready.” [94:30]

Memorable Moments

• Olivia’s shift:

  • “I feel like I have a lot of good things going, and he doesn’t have anything to do with it.” [96:31]

• Nick’s closing words:

  • “Be mindful of your narrative. That’s my big takeaway.” [97:18]

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Notable Quotes (By Segment)

On Narratives & Reality

• “We romanticize something in our head so much that that’s what we’re falling in love with, not the actual person.” — Nick, [09:40]
• “At some point, you just need to accept who he is. Nothing you’ve described is just, like, ‘this is the person you should be betting your life on.’” — Nick, [15:31]
• “You should be able to dream big... none of what you described is unobtainable, and you need to know what your goals are.” — Nick to Mia, [35:27]

On Self-Empowerment

• “Write down your relationship goals, take all the men out of the equation, just focus on what you want for yourself…” — Nick, [51:12]
• “Your story... needs to be your new story. Be mindful of your narrative.” — Nick, [90:08, 97:18]

On Letting Go

• “You just have to accept the fact you got a little duped and misled... and thank God you weren’t the one who got pregnant.” — Nick, [71:46]
• “Stop telling your story at parties, stop getting attention for it, let it go. Your body is telling you you’re exhausted by this narrative.” — Nick, [94:30]

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Episode Takeaways

• Stop romanticizing long-term “almost” relationships and recognize patterns of inconsistency.
• Don’t shrink your dreams or rewrite your goals to fit someone else’s limited effort or availability.
• Understand the difference between fantasy and real-life compatibility.
• Narrative control is essential in post-heartbreak recovery — how you talk about your past shapes your future.
• Therapy is highly recommended to break cycles and build self-worth and independence.
• Let go of the “why”—focus on “what happened” and what you want next.
• Move forward boldly: your story is not about what happened to you, but about what you do next.

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For listeners who haven’t tuned in:
Nick Viall’s signature brand of direct but caring advice is in full effect here — he pushes each caller to honestly re-examine the stories they’ve been telling themselves, refocus on their own dreams and needs, and stop settling for unhealthy partnerships or letting the past define them. If you want both empathy and a wake-up call, this episode delivers.

Transcript

[Host 1]

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[Caller Olivia]

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[Host 2]

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[Caller Olivia]

You're crazy.

[Host 2]

How's it going?

[Caller Amy]

It's going.

[Host 2]

What's your name?

[Caller Amy]

I'm Amy. I'm 39. I'm just having trouble. I have this guy who just makes me feel like endgame. And then when I leave his house, he starts to distance again and I'm just getting whiplash.

[Host 2]

Tell me a little bit about this guy in this relationship.

[Caller Amy]

So it's been going on for like 20 years.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God.

[Caller Amy]

I met him when I was 17.

[Host 2]

How old are you now again?

[Caller Amy]

39.

[Host 2]

Is this the only man in your life for this past 20 years, or has he been a consistent.

[Caller Amy]

Oh, no. It's been off and on. I've had boyfriends, he's had girlfriends, but we just stayed in touch the whole time.

[Host 2]

Have you ever been married?

[Caller Amy]

No.

[Host 2]

Okay. I mean, like, it's been 20 years.

[Caller Amy]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

When you think about him at this stage in the game, do you think the reason that you feel the way you do not because, like, whether you're with him or not, but do you feel like the emotional distress and frustration you feel about him as a result of his actions or your actions at this point?

[Caller Amy]

Oh, his actions, definitely.

[Host 2]

Why? Why is that?

[Caller Amy]

So I spent the night at his house and everything's great, great, great. And for both of us, we both expressed. Everything came rushing back just immediately, everything from all those years ago. And then he slowly distances and he quits texting and he leaves me on delivered instead of read.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Caller Amy]

And it's just frustrating that there's no consistency.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm assuming over the past 20 years, this has. What's been consistent is his inconsistency.

[Caller Amy]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So it's not like you. You known him since you were 17, and you kind of kept in touch, and only recently did you guys start acknowledging deeper feelings. But like this. This potential deeper feelings has been a consistent consideration throughout these years with this guy, correct?

[Caller Amy]

Yes, that's right.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Caller Amy]

And two years ago, we actually hung out and spent the night. He came over to my place, and I just wasn't feeling it. I wasn't ready. It was summer, I was hanging with friends, so it fizzled. Now he's back and I'm ready, and it feels like he's not, but he says he is.

[Host 2]

Have there been other times like this where you felt similar feelings?

[Caller Amy]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What happened?

[Caller Amy]

I just. It wasn't the right time for me, so I kind of just let it go.

[Host 2]

It's been 20 years, so I'm just like, how, How. How off and on have you guys been? Or again, is this like you've known him since high school and you lived a life and only recently you reconnected by. Recently? Maybe within the past five years. I'm a little confused by. This has been going on for 20 years or you're. Now you're telling me only recently in the past few years have you guys kind of considered a more romantic relationship, but when that happen and now you feel ready, but you don't think he is, which one's more accurate?

[Caller Amy]

That's more accurate. And when I say keep in touch, I mean, we've had boyfriends and girlfriends, but we text, had long phone conversations, just met up with each other, and then didn't spend the night or anything, just really kept in touch to the point where we had boyfriends and girlfriends and we shouldn't have been talking.

[Host 2]

What does that mean to you?

[Caller Amy]

It just means, like, this emotional bond is really intense. It's there.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Caller Amy]

And now I just don't know if I should just let it go or let it keep frustrating me because it's consuming my entire mind and giving me anxiety.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Well, what do you think?

[Caller Amy]

I don't want to because I really, really, really love him.

[Host 2]

And how long. I mean, what do you.

[Caller Olivia]

20 years.

[Caller Amy]

How long do I keep doing this again?

[Host 2]

I'm trying to figure out what's the most accurate version of this story. I do think if you've listened to the show, it's just really important, the narrative that we tell ourselves, you know, what is the story in our head that we keep repeating over and over, that we believe. And sometimes that story is not that accurate to what the reality is. And sometimes it is, you know, on one side, you know, you started the call saying, hey, this guy in my life, it's been 20 years. We've been off and on. I hear that. I'm like, oh, my God, 20 years. You couldn't, you know, you haven't figured it out yet, you know, like at some point maybe. And then you tell me more of the story, and then it sounds like, okay, well, you've known him, you met him 20 years ago, but you. He had his life. You had your life. You've dated some people. And then what, how many years ago you guys reconnected two years ago, spent

[Caller Amy]

the night together and then. All right, I'd say five years, we hung out. Okay, so five years ago and then two years and now recently.

[Host 2]

So between in those five years, was there much contact between high school and five years ago? Those, like, those 15 years?

[Caller Amy]

Not a lot. Just some Phone calls, texts, happy birthdays. Okay, what are you doing?

[Host 2]

Yeah, so some. Okay.

[Caller Amy]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And did you feel those connections? Like it. I don't know. When you guys were sending texts, happy birthdays, was there feelings there or was he just like some guy you're like, oh, his friend from high school.

[Caller Amy]

It was always feelings for me. Okay, so in hope. Because he had a lot of issues back then. I mean, he was into some pretty heavy drugs.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Caller Amy]

Completely sober for over two years. And it just. I kept distance, but my feelings were always there.

[Host 2]

Okay, it feels like you are. You tell yourself, I've been in love with this guy for 20 years. Okay, is that accurate? Like what. When you think about this relationship, what's the narrative you tell yourself?

[Caller Amy]

I think I. I like the idea. Or love the idea.

[Host 2]

Of what?

[Caller Amy]

Of seeing him as long term, forever. And I'm just holding onto that feeling, I think.

[Host 2]

Yeah, but what about the idea? I guess what I'm saying is like, yeah, I feel like you're romanticizing you guys history a little bit.

[Caller Amy]

That makes sense. I do find myself doing that.

[Host 2]

I mean, 20 years ago is a lifetime ago. You guys were different people. It's a distant memory. I think it's fun to say, oh, you know, if you guys were to end up together, sounds like your version of that story to friends and family and anyone who would listen has been like, he was my high school sweetheart and boy, we've been through A lot. But we ended up together, and we've been in love for a lifetime. That's not really the real story, but I feel like that's the story you kind of want to tell yourself. And I only say that because, again, like, it's been 20 years. You mentioned this really intense connection, and I feel like sometimes we can feel these really intense connections, and they just have very little to do with the actual person and what they bring to the table in a relationship or how they consider our feelings. That often can be caused by these narratives we tell ourselves. Like, we romanticize something in our head so much that that's what we're falling in love with, not the actual person or what they bring to the table.

[Caller Amy]

Right. He says things to me that, like, what are just, oh, my gosh, I. I just. All those feelings come back and I could just marry you right now. I see us having a house on a lake and long messages.

[Host 2]

Does he have a house on a lake?

[Caller Amy]

He would buy it. His dad was CEO or president or something. Okay, so is that okay? Yeah. They got a lot of money.

[Host 2]

His dad gives him money?

[Caller Amy]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

How old is this guy?

[Caller Amy]

43.

[Host 2]

And he lives off his dad, kind of.

[Caller Amy]

He tries all kinds of different small businesses, startups, but nothing really has nothing. Sticks took off.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

People say things all the time. At this point, you sound like you have been a consistent person in his life who's always been willing to listen, even when he doesn't maybe deserve your patience for listening. And it sounds like you're just grateful to have him around and you're just really. You're holding on to a hope that I think at this point, if it was meant to be, it would happen then. You've described in our short period of time someone who is a recovering addict who, while his parents have a lot of success, he has not found his footing in life yet. An entrepreneurial mindset. Big, big dreamer, you know, often requires big dreams, big risks. You know, things like that someone who has the benefit of some wealth in his family, the person who grew up with rich parents who had, like, a security blanket to make decisions in their life, especially professionally, knowing that if things didn't work out, they would probably be okay. They wouldn't owe anyone some money. You know, it might be the personal disappointment of something not working out. You can get really cavalier with other people's feelings. Money. When you never really have to be responsible for, like, things that don't work out or bad decisions. And so it's not shocking to hear that this guy says crazy things to you or profound, just messages of proclamations or whatever. Again, if this is someone who's, you know, spent a lifetime starting businesses having them fail, always using dad's money, it's probably not shocking that he's not that considerate to how his actions affect other people. Because, you know, again, I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but if his.

[Caller Amy]

Oh, you're right, his dad got mad

[Host 2]

at him or whatever, but, like, what's stopping, you know, it's like if he has an unlimited access to blowing his dad's money and then when something doesn't work out, he just, like, comes up with a new idea. Most people in his shoes have one shot in life to, like, start a business of their dreams and they will work 15, 20 years to save up and plan and really work and shoot their shot. A lot of times that doesn't work out, and that can be very devastating for people. But like, they, because they're in, they. They're fully aware of how responsible they are for other people's jobs and careers and feelings and things like that. And he has been able to do this probably without having to do much of that. And I only say that because, like, you just, you have to stop acting shocked that he can say one thing and do another. And you have to stop holding so much weight into words that he says when he says it. He doesn't seem to often back them up with his actions, certainly not with any type of consistency.

[Caller Amy]

Right. I think I need to maybe set a boundary and see how he reacts to it.

[Host 2]

I mean, you could, but, like, that's just sounds like a test.

[Caller Amy]

It is. That is exactly it. Boundaries on a test and then just let go after. I mean, I feel like I deserve more.

[Host 2]

You do. I. I'm certain you do, but the question is, are you going to give yourself more? I asked you a question early on. Do you feel like how you feel about this man in this relationship has more to do with his actions or yours? You quickly said his. I would respectfully disagree. After 20 years, he's going to do what he's going to do. You know what I'm saying? This is who he is. I don't, I don't. You're not describing someone who probably isn't going to show much personal growth. That's amazing. He got clean. That's awesome. And that's amazing for him. But if you are describing as someone who's been essentially spoiled his whole life because of who his parents are, I wouldn't expect A lot of meaningful changes from this man at this stage of his life. But you have chosen to keep waiting around for this guy. You have chosen over 20 years to keep giving this guy excuses to test him and set boundaries or whatever. You are playing a game with yourself and at some point you just need to accept who he is. Maybe a swell guy and a friend. But there nothing you described is just like, this is the person you should be betting your life on when it comes to like finding your person.

[Caller Amy]

I like what you said though about stop being shocked whenever he does stuff like that. Because every time I act shocked and I didn't realize that I was doing that.

[Host 2]

Okay, well, here you go. You also said that you are exhausted by how much emotional energy you're putting into this guy in the situation. Why are you putting all your energy into this guy that as you admit is consuming you?

[Caller Amy]

Because I want to be with him. I want that relationship where he's just so in love. I want that. But you want that being consistent.

[Host 2]

How I hear that is you just pick some guy and you decided you wanted a fairy tale with this guy. Regardless of what he brings to the table and who he is as a person. You've known him since high school. You probably had a crush on him way back when. It's something that's kind of been a fantasies fantasy of yours your whole life and you just decided you wanted to. He's, he's, he's Prince Charming and you're like Cinderella story in your head.

[Caller Amy]

Well, that's how he makes me feel in person. And then the messages he writes,

[Host 2]

I, I, they're just how does he, how does he make you feel that way? What do you mean? Like what is he doing?

[Caller Amy]

Just the things he says to me and like, like what he, when together, it's like he just can't let go. He just wants affection and to have emotional conversations with me and it gets really deep. So it just makes me feel really, really good.

[Host 2]

And how many of connections like that have you had? I mean, how many people in your life have you had deep conversations with or someone who likes physical touch?

[Caller Amy]

I've had several long term boyfriends and very probably three of them made me feel the way he does.

[Host 2]

Three? That's pretty good.

[Caller Amy]

Yeah, I mean it gets so intense that I feel like my body starts shaking because I'm so, I'm just feeling so much emotion. I don't know.

[Host 2]

That doesn't sound healthy.

[Caller Amy]

Really? Tell me more.

[Host 2]

Well, you know, I'm not a psychologist,

[Caller Amy]

but that feeling is Weird.

[Host 2]

Well, if you're literally shaking from emotions, from this guy giving you some validation of attention, that seems a little intense and not necessarily in a healthy way. You know, at 39 years old, I think it's great to be excited about someone and get really happy and smile, and when you think about them, you glow, and you're just really excited about conversations you're having and connections you're making. But a guy who's been in your life for 20 years that you've kind of known casually, and you've watched him kind of battle some demons, and you have this kind of whole narrative in your head of who he is, and after 15 years, he finally starts giving you some unexpected attention, and he brings a lot of intensity to that relationship. And again, I'm no expert when it comes to addiction, but I. I think there's a lot of intense people in that community, and their intensity is. Is not exclusive to any one person. So he's probably a fairly intense person with most people in his life that he opens up to. And I'm guessing you're feeling that intensity and. And coupled with the fact that, like, you fantasized about this over and over, it's just, like. It's probably overwhelming for you. Yeah, but is it healthy? Are you. Is it a. A feeling that allows you. You should still like. I feel like you should be. When you're falling in love, especially as an adult. I mean, it's one thing to be 17 and a little. You know, I've never felt this before, but I think we should feel in control and still be happy. We can be giddy and feel in control. And you are describing kind of feeling out of control and calling that a good thing.

[Caller Amy]

I'd rather be in control because talking it out, it does not sound healthy for me at all.

[Host 2]

No. When's the last time you had a conversation with him about your YouTube?

[Caller Amy]

Probably three days ago.

[Host 2]

And what did that conversation look like?

[Caller Amy]

Well, that one wasn't too good because I said I basically attacked him for being inconsistent.

[Host 2]

What do you mean, attacked?

[Caller Amy]

Through text. Basically said, you can't do anything right. It'd be nice if you could actually call me once a day. And you're just selfish in thinking about yourself. So along those lines, it wasn't too good.

[Host 2]

You told him you can't do anything right?

[Caller Amy]

Basically, yeah. I was. I was seeing red. I was mad. I was frustrated because, like, the whiplash back and forth.

[Host 2]

What do you mean by I. I love you.

[Caller Amy]

I want to be with you. Let's. Let's go fishing. I can't wait till it gets warm. Silence. Don't hear from him. Yeah, at all. And I just freaked out. And then he just dismissed my feelings on it.

[Host 2]

So like what about this is. Is appealing to you?

[Caller Amy]

It's when he does the loving things, says the loving things. I'm just holding on to that. But now I realize it's completely unhealthy.

[Host 2]

Feeling loved is a great feeling. So I'm, I'm glad that you feel good or get excited about that. But you're just describing getting attention from someone. And the tough part about dating is sometimes when we get attention, it feels good. The attention we're receiving isn't like meant for us. He wants to feel connection. So he's giving you attention and he's getting something in return. There's a lot of people and sounds like he might be one of them where it's just like it's, it is about him. He might actually be selfish as you described. And so when he is saying, oh, I can't wait to go fishing with you and I can't wait to smell, it feels good for him to say that in that moment. And it doesn't sound like he's saying it to make you happy. You being happy is a consequence of what he's saying. But he is saying it because it feels good for him to say it. He's like trying it out. He wants to say it. He wants to hold you or spend quality time with you. And again, like you had described someone who you know, it's not shocking that he might be a selfish person. If he has in fact been spoiled. If this guy, if it's true that he's started a handful of businesses that none of which that have worked out and he's been able to do that by being financed by his dad or his parents, that is, that is a recipe for someone who's probably really selfish.

[Caller Amy]

I agree.

[Host 2]

What is so good about this guy that makes you willing to put so much of your emotional energy into. And as a 39 year old person who still wants to find love and is on the fence about possibly having kids, like why do you want to waste more time? This man has been in and out of your Life for over 20 years. It's been at least give or take two to five years. It sounds like where it's been really intense for you and it's really consumed you and it's stopped you from exploring other options or possibilities. It's probably stopped you from taking care of yourself and like you know, asking yourself, how can I be a better version of myself? Whatever that looks like for you. You know, you have been obsessed with trying to land this plane or close this, you know, like, secure this relationship with someone that you, in the back of your mind, have told yourself it's like a love story from high school. And every once in a while, he needs you and he gives you the energy that you want to see consistently, but it's not for you, and it's not about you. It's for him, probably, which is why he's so dismissive when you call him out. And again, then. And then now you're at the point where you're saying mean things to him. And even if you're justified for being upset with him, definitely not helpful. No, you being like, you can't do anything right, you know, like, this is probably a very fragile guy.

[Caller Amy]

Definitely he is.

[Host 2]

So there's nothing positive or healthy about this story or relationship. So if you ask me, like, what do you think you should do? Yeah, I definitely think you should move on. And I think you should do everything in your power to, like, make it happen as fast as possible. And you. You more than anything, you need to, like, you don't need his permission. There's no conversation. You just have to, like, be honest with yourself, look yourself in the mirror and say, he is not right for me. Yes, there's chemistry. You two have chemistry. There is a connection. Like, so often we will. We will be so resistant to letting people go or letting relationships go because of this, like, chemistry that we feel, this unexplainable, intangible feeling. But, like, again, like, chemistry is just one aspect of a relationship, certainly a healthy one. And chemistry, again, is often manufactured. It can be like a body response to, like, something negative. Like, it's our ego telling us we have to have something that we can't want. Chemistry is not rooted in how the day to day of people getting along and making things work and compromising or sharing in moments and how they raise kids or what. That has nothing to do with chemistry. So I'm not denying you have chemistry, but you have to. You have to want more for yourself than just these intense feelings that you can't explain. And when we do try to, like, get to the bottom of it, it sounds like these feelings are coming from more toxic places rather than healthy places.

[Caller Amy]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

So,

[Caller Amy]

yeah, I think it's time to maybe work on myself a little more right now.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I would say so.

[Caller Amy]

But, like, I wouldn't have gotten by myself.

[Host 2]

Do you do any therapy?

[Caller Amy]

No.

[Caller Olivia]

I used to.

[Caller Amy]

Well, but I just couldn't find a good one.

[Host 2]

I'm glad I was helpful and I appreciate you reaching out, but I think if this has been. If this has been eye opening for you, I think that's great. But I think when you get off the phone, there's a greater chance that you will probably forget what I said and the pull from him will be intense. So if you really want to move on from this, I would really encourage you to explore therapy. And it might take some time to find a therapy that's therapist that's right for you. This is something I think you need to work through and understand why you've painted a really inaccurate picture about why this guy is worth your time. And it's going to be a challenge to get over it.

[Caller Amy]

Right.

[Host 2]

And it's always helpful to get through a difficult time with help. Yeah, I'm glad this was helpful, but I'm worried it won't stick.

[Caller Amy]

Well, I'm gonna try and make it stick.

[Host 2]

All right, well, good luck. I appreciate the call. And when you're ready, I think looking into some therapy would probably be beneficial to you.

[Caller Amy]

I will do that.

[Host 2]

Okay. All right, take care.

[Caller Amy]

Bye.

[Host 2]

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[Host 2]

How's it going?

[Caller Mia]

Good.

[Caller Olivia]

How are you?

[Host 2]

Good. What's your name?

[Caller Mia]

Good. I'm Mia.

[Host 2]

How old are you?

[Caller Mia]

32.

[Host 2]

Okay, how can I help?

[Caller Mia]

So basically I have really great chemistry with this man and it's been going on for about a year and a half. But he is just not committing and there are red flags like kind of popping up everywhere. I'm sure you've gotten a lot of these questions before, but basically I just want to know if it's even going to be worth it for me to kind of continue on and kind of avoid the red flags or if I should just say goodbye and just move forward, even though the chemistry is, like, absolutely insane.

[Host 2]

Right. You explain to me why you think you should ignore whatever these red flags are.

[Caller Mia]

Because I feel like the chemistry that we do have is like, I haven't had this kind of chemistry with anyone before, ever. And it's just kind of one of those things where it's like every time we are together, it's just we talk about serious stuff. We always have so much fun. Like, it's just so easy. I'm very much myself, and it's just like I feel really at ease with him. However, the only thing that's been the issue is that every time we do hang out, he always, like, tries to back track, and that's where the red flags are kind of starting to come in, where he's like, almost like, to my face, he's like, I love spending time with you and I want to keep moving forward and blah, blah, blah. And then the next day he's like, actually, hang on, we shouldn't be doing that. We need to, like, think about this. And I'm like, okay.

[Host 2]

And that's been going on for a year and a half?

[Caller Mia]

Yeah, briefly. Yeah. On and off for about a year and a half.

[Host 2]

What else?

[Caller Mia]

Like, what do you mean? Like, what else? With, like, chemistry wise or just.

[Host 2]

Or like, red flag? I mean, like. Yeah. Like, does that sum up your relationship?

[Caller Mia]

I would say just like. Yeah, to summarize it. That's probably, like, the best way to. I mean, there's a lot of details,

[Host 2]

but the short version of this story is you met a year and a half ago. It was quickly. Like, you felt a lot of excitement in chemistry, but every time you feel like it's getting close to actually being something, he pulls back. And that's been going on for a year and a half?

[Caller Mia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay. Is there any other specific behaviors that are red flags? Do you know why he's pulling back? Has he given you any reasons?

[Caller Mia]

Yeah, the last time we saw each other, he was just kind of like, you know, I'm just trying to get my stuff in order.

[Host 2]

And what stuff?

[Caller Mia]

Like paying off debt, saving money to move out, paying off his car, like, all that kind of stuff easily.

[Host 2]

With his parents?

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Caller Mia]

He's living with his dad right now. Yeah.

[Host 2]

How old is he?

[Caller Mia]

32.

[Host 2]

Okay. And from what you can tell, has he made any progress in a year and a half from.

[Caller Mia]

I mean, I would say a little bit, like, what I've seen A subtle difference recently. But again, it's subtle because he's like, you know, I'm so busy trying to get all this stuff together and whatever.

[Host 2]

But the things he's trying to get together, like, I don't know how often you hang out with him, but is he like apartment shopping? Because he's been paying off enough of debt that he's in a position to move out from dad. Do you know if he's paid off his cars or anything like that?

[Caller Mia]

Like that's why he's in the process of trying to get these done. And he said he's going to be done before the year ends. So he has like certain goals set for himself and his whole thing was like, I, like, he told me to my face, he's like, I am interested in you. He's like, I just can't commit to seeing you once a week.

[Host 2]

Once a week is too much for him, apparently.

[Caller Olivia]

So.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Caller Mia]

But I also have never asked him to do that because, I mean, aren't we all kind of trying to get our shit together a little bit? So like I work two jobs and stuff. So like my free time slim.

[Host 2]

Also, you work two jobs and if you, if you headed your way, how many nights a week do you think you'd probably want to spend with them?

[Caller Mia]

I'd probably want once a week.

[Host 2]

That's it.

[Caller Olivia]

At least.

[Host 2]

So how many days would you probably spend with them? But you don't have to be chill here. But like, let's assume you got ever he. Let's assume he felt exactly how you felt about him and you and, and he was going to do whatever you wanted because he was so into you. How many days a week do you think you'd want to spend with them to. That's it too.

[Caller Mia]

Yeah. I like having my own space too. You know, like I've been, I've been on my own for like 10 years. I've gotten really comfortable with being independent and being on my own for 10 years.

[Host 2]

So. But you're calling in about a guy, you've invested your a year and a half and emotionally, but you only want to spend two days a week with him.

[Caller Mia]

That's literally what my schedule would allow. Even too.

[Host 2]

So you have no. Okay, what are your relationship goals?

[Caller Mia]

I would like to find a partner.

[Host 2]

What does that look like for you?

[Caller Mia]

Just having a life partner. I mean, I don't necessarily need to be married or like, you know, and I'm neutral on kids. But like, I would like to find someone to be long term with and what Is.

[Host 2]

What does that look like again? Like, I. What are your dreams? I'm not asking you to be practical here, but if you could have. I'm a genie and I'm like, what do you want? You could have more. Even three wishes. What do you want? Like, tell me what you want. What are your dreams like in a perfect world?

[Caller Mia]

In a perfect world, I would be with my partner. We'd be in a house, we'd have a couple dogs, we'd be able to travel. I'd be able to go and see the world.

[Host 2]

And are you only spending two days a week with him?

[Caller Mia]

I'm lucky to even be spending a month, like one day a month with him at this point.

[Host 2]

No, no, no. I'm asking you, in this perfect world, how many days are you spending with

[Caller Mia]

your partner while living together? Every day.

[Host 2]

Every day. Okay.

[Caller Mia]

I would like to be with them.

[Caller Olivia]

See.

[Caller Mia]

At least see them every day.

[Caller Olivia]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Okay. So that is something you would prefer, you'd want. Okay. I think it's as important for you. It sounds like over the years you have diminished what your dreams are and you have settled on what you think you can get.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And that makes me sad for you. You know, I think you should be able to dream big. I don't know if you're going to have all your dreams come true, but you shouldn't be. None of what you've described is unobtainable. A quality relationship. You live together. You, you at least see them every day, whether that's quality time, every single day. Because, you know, you probably both have busy lives, the occasional trip, travel, you can get some pets. These are, these are all realistic goals. And you need to know what your goals are. Too many times we, we, we. We meet people like you met him, and you are trying to figure out what your goals should be with him. And then you develop new goals. I don't know you at all, and it sounds like you have two jobs, and that's, that's very difficult and time consuming. But something tells me that if you could, you would spend more than two days a week with the person you really care and love if you had the option.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And that might only be five minutes on one day and a few hours the next, but I doubt that you would settle for two days a week with the person you care most about. And yet you have, like, you know, when I asked you what, like what you're cool with, you're answering from a place of. In the deep back of your mind, what you think he can tolerate and that, you know, it just makes me sad for you. You know, you shouldn't allow someone you know, like in your life to make you dream smaller. I mean, what does this guy bring to the table that'll make that he's worth you settling your dreams for? You know, you said it's the best connection you ever had. Like, why, why do you think that is? And what, what is happening that is so irreplaceable?

[Caller Mia]

I think that the fact that I can be fully myself around him, which I know is, you know, I don't.

[Host 2]

I don't think that's true.

[Caller Mia]

He. He does things and he goes. He'll go out of his way sometimes for certain things. When we hang out as well, he's got some really, like, it's almost kind of like a tease. Like he's got some good little boyfriend type kind of things that he does with me.

[Host 2]

Like what?

[Caller Mia]

Just like cute little, like, thoughtful things, like, you know, like we were going to have a movie night and he brought over hot chocolate for us to have and snacks and stuff. Just like cute little things that he does there and everything. But it's just with him, it's just one of those things where I know that I'm going to show up there and I'm going to feel really comfortable and really at ease when I am physically there with him. And I just. I don't know. This. This guy has kind of just had me running the. He's kind of giving me the run around right now, and my mind's kind of all over the place with it. And I'm sure you can kind of pick up on that a little bit.

[Host 2]

But what about the other six days a week that you're not with them or other way? Third, you said one day a month you're getting right now.

[Caller Mia]

At this rate, it's going to be. Yeah, it's about one day a month right now. Yeah.

[Host 2]

So why. Who gives a shit how you feel about them when you're with them?

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I mean, what's your love languages?

[Caller Mia]

Mine is Acts of Service and Quality Time are my top two.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God. Quality times in your top two.

[Caller Mia]

Yeah, but Acts of Service is my number one, so.

[Host 2]

Well, Acts of Service does require some quality time. You often need to be in the presence of the person you want to serve. And. And how is he the person you describe is the best connection you've ever had. How is that possible when you're only seeing him once a month and your love languages are Acts of Service and Quality Time?

[Caller Mia]

Everything seems Everything is kind of on his terms in his schedule right now?

[Host 2]

Yeah, clearly. But do you think it's possible that what you feel and what you say you feel is not the result of how you actually feel, but what you've told yourself to feel, or, you know, in a way, if that makes sense.

[Caller Mia]

Like, you mean, like almost like I'm convincing myself that this is how I need to feel about him kind of a thing? Like I'm need.

[Host 2]

I don't need. I mean, I just like you described this guy as the best connection you've ever had in your life. All right, fair enough. I'll take your word for it. You've also mentioned that at this rate, at best you see him once a week. And more and more it's getting closer to once a month. And his excuses is basically like he's got to pay off debt, which I'm not sure why that's stopping him from spending time with you. I don't know, but whatever. And then you said that your love language is how you feel. The most loved is when someone gives you quality time and acts of service, which doesn't seem like he's doing much of. So how if, if your love languages truly are acts of service and quality time, how in what world are you possibly feeling the strongest connection of your life?

[Caller Mia]

Yeah, I think it's just the, like the, like, I don't want to say similarities that we have, but just like, I mean like the conversation is just like not. It's just, it's non stop. And I know that it's more than that, but it's, you know, like I said, I could go into a bunch of little details and stuff. Just even with, you know, he makes a movie quote reference or a song reference or, you know, like, you know, we're both open to going. Like, you know, he likes to go camping, I like to go camping. Like, there's just like a lot of little things that kind of come together to form like this big. Like this. It's not big, but like this chemistry, like ball, I guess.

[Host 2]

When's the last time you had a boyfriend?

[Caller Mia]

10 years.

[Host 2]

Okay. You seem like a wonderful person and I think you have a lot going for yourself. I feel like you are not channeling your energy in the most positive way. And I, and I feel like you have not invested in yourself in ways that I feel like you could. And I think you have let go of some of your own dreams and I think you have. I think you kind of quit on yourself, to be honest. And now you are Settling for this guy who. Honestly, I don't. I don't. I haven't heard. He. He made hot cocoa one night. Is the big. He lives with his dad. He's in debt, which, you know, it's like we all been. I guess we've all been there. But it doesn't require him to not have a girlfriend to pay off debt. And he doesn't. It shouldn't take. I mean, I'm not saying it shouldn't take him a year and a half. I don't know what he's doing to get his together, but it sounds like it's more of an excuse rather than an actual reason why he can't do something. And I. I have no doubt that the few moments that you've spent with him, you've had some nice moments. I don't doubt that. But I think you have starved yourself of really nice moments so much that when you. When it happens, you get a little overwhelmed by them.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And I don't know at some. At what point you just. What happened with your last relationship 10 years ago?

[Caller Mia]

I mean, I was young. I was 22, but basically the. My ex. Now ex boyfriend was basically in two relationships at the same time. He was in a relationship with a girl that was away at college, and he was in a relationship with me as well and ended up breaking up with us on the same day.

[Host 2]

So how hard was that for you to get over?

[Caller Mia]

It wasn't too hard because we weren't dating for very long, to be honest. It was like a very short little stint. It was like two, three months.

[Host 2]

So why do you think over the past 10 years you haven't had a single boyfriend?

[Caller Mia]

I think. I mean, my insecurities are telling me that it's me and everything, which, you know, it very much could well be. You know, there's the things I need to.

[Host 2]

Definitely. It's definitely you. The why it's you. You're probably. I, you know, it could be the men you picked to invest in. You know, there's that. And I. It's probably not the things that you're saying. It is when it comes to you. Like, you know, I don't know, your personality or whatever. Bad habits or how you, you know, you. Your looks versus what you think you should attract. You know, like, it's probably not those things. It is probably just like you chasing the wrong things or, Or. Or investing in the wrong things, like a year and a half over this guy.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It doesn't seem like the best use of your time or Energy, you've had some nice conversations, he made some hot cocoa. And you like a couple of the same movies. That shouldn't be that hard. It's not that hard to find. And I think, yeah, it's just, I think, I think we should let this guy go.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And I, and I like my advice to you in our limited time is to think about what you want for yourself. What are your goals? Like, whatever they are. Dream big, you know, and then ask yourself, you know, how do I get there? Whatever it is. And I think you're probably doing fine, but I think you're probably not where you want to be in life. And that's okay. We all have those moments. But ask yourself, what could you be doing differently? And how do I really invest in me right now? How do I focus on what I need? Whatever it is, just overall wellness, mental health, you know, you know, starting with your mental health and dream big, you know, again, like, what do you, you know, what are your relationship goals? Like, you should say that out loud. You may hell write it down, you know. Yeah. You meet someone, you have a nice spark, that you have some things in common. That's chemistry. Chemistry is great. It's a great starting point. Certainly not the end all be all. You guys have a little, you have a little bit of compatibility. What you don't have is the consistency and the trust and the stability of, you know, it shouldn't take you that long to build a kind of rapport with someone where you can on some level count on them. And you're spending too much energy on a person who is never giving you the ability to allow you to count on them. It has. So in that regard, it does. It doesn't justify your continued efforts and energy you've put into this person who's their only thing they've been consistent with is how much you can't rely on them.

[Caller Mia]

Yeah. Who wants to start a relationship like that anyway?

[Host 2]

Yeah. And you've spent way too much time when you're not with him, thinking about him, why he doesn't want to reach out, why he's not doing this, why he's not doing that, why can't you get him to spend more time with you? And that is all time. You could be doing God knows what for yourself. You might own your schedule might be limited where you have very limited time. I get that. But to tell me that you would only want to spend two nights a week with the person that you were really into and building a relationship with it, just like that's I don't believe that's true. It doesn't seem like you believe that's true, and yet that's what you. You told. You convinced yourself of this stuff. It's like you've negotiated by yourself, with yourself for a relationship with him. And so you've been like, okay, well, fuck, man. He's only hanging out with me twice a month. If I could just get two days a week. Two days a week with this man is like, oh, my God. That's like. That's eight times more than I'm getting right now. That'd be amazing. And that's how you got to where you are mentally, which is like, you centered your happiness around this guy who's giving you nothing. And then you've been able to convince yourself that two days a week with this person would be so much better. But that's not what you want for yourself. So you gotta pull back. Like, you gotta pull back and ask yourself, what do I really want? Take him out of the picture to, you know, this blank slate. It's not what I want with him. It's what I want for myself. And if he's not giving you that or anything remotely close to that, then he's not your guy.

[Caller Mia]

I agree, actually. So you've, like, really opened my eyes to the reality of the situation at hand and. And making me real, like, internalize, like. Yeah, like, what do I really want? What's best for me. And don't, you know, try to appease someone that's not even putting in an effort.

[Host 2]

Yeah. How old are you again?

[Caller Mia]

32.

[Host 2]

You're only 32. You know, you're wasting some valuable years on this guy.

[Caller Mia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You got a lot going for you. I think you can really. I think you should dream. I think you should dream big. And it's going to take some work on your part.

[Caller Mia]

Yeah, I mean, I, like, I've started already in general because, like, I'm trying to get myself together at the moment as well. But. However, I wouldn't ever, you know, with someone that I like, in this instance, with someone that I like and everything, I wouldn't, you know, deprive my time with them fully. You know, Like, I wouldn't be like, oh, I can't. I can only see you once a month. Like, I would make an effort for somebody still, even if I, you know, have such a busy schedule and whatever. And obviously he's not willing to do that at all. So it's making me kind of also think that he's just coming up with Excuses on, like maybe stringing me along, keeping the leash on and maybe, you know, feeling like he can kind of just have me whenever it's convenient for him. And that's not what I. Yeah. At all.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Well, good. But yeah, it's definitely what's happening. It seems like.

[Caller Mia]

Yeah, I think I just needed brutal honesty and just, you know, some eye opening advice and everything. So this is like, yeah, this has been really helpful.

[Host 2]

And you're right, you can date someone and still work on yourself and you can, and, and you can meet someone and get excited about them and explore a relationship with someone and still work on your yourself. But the big question is for that to happen is that that person has to bring kind of that positive energy, right? Like if they show up in your life and then they bring in a lot of confusion and uncertainty about their lives, then all of a sudden your energy is going to try to figure them out and what do they want. And again, all your energy has been centered around how to make it work with this guy which consumes all the energy you have from things that you'd want to put into yourself. You should be able to meet a guy, right? And it'd be nice and you have some chemistry. He makes you hot cocoa, you laugh at some movies. And then he could be, you know, he's like, well, I had a really nice time, I'd love to, let's get together next week sometime. I'm kind of busy but like I'm free these couple days and like all of a sudden you have another time with this person set up where you don't have to wonder if he's going to call or reach out or what he's thinking. It's pretty straightforward. And then you don't, you know, you can certainly want to think about them because you're excited. But like you also could be like, well, I have some shit to do and I'm going to do that stuff because I'm working. You know, when we get into these relationships that just suck all our emotional energy because we've decided that we like them for whatever reason or, and certainly they maybe they dangled some things to get us to want to be, you know, but we don't listen to the red flags and then we keep chasing and then we wonder why we can't be our best selves around these people because we're focusing all our energy and just trying to figure out what the they want in the first place.

[Caller Mia]

Yeah, yeah, I agree with you on that one. I agree.

[Host 2]

But I always spend A lot of time asking yourself, what do I want for myself? What are my personal goals? What are my professional goals? What are my relationship goals? What. In a perfect world, what does that look like? What am I doing or not doing that's stopping these goals from happening? Take all the men, you know, like, remove the men from the equation. When you start thinking about these answers and be honest with yourself, it doesn't do you any good to sugarcoat it. You know, it's like, you know, it's like cheating in push ups alone in your room. It's like, okay, you're like, I did 50 push ups. And you're like, well, you know, actually not really. But like, you can, you can cheat doing push ups and you can tell yourself, I did 50 push ups, you know, like, you know, and that's kind of like when. That's when we lie. Like, what? There's no good in lying to yourself about why you're not getting what you're getting in life, and just keep it real with yourself and start figuring it out and start making some meaningful changes. But you're only 32 and you got a lot going for you, and I think, I think you're just. I feel like I'm just talking to someone who's allowed herself to stop dreaming big and asking herself what she really wants. And, and, and you've been chasing this guy and maybe some other guys over the years for very little reason. You know that. You know, and you haven't really focused on yourself in a while, and maybe that requires you to take a break from men for six months, I don't know, of a period of time, and really just like, start, Start chasing some dreams and personal goals. See how that feels.

[Caller Mia]

Yeah. Thank you. Literally, I think I just really needed an outside perspective on the situation and, and also made me realize some things about myself as well. So thank you very much for that. Well, because now I know that, yeah, now I do. I do want to take time for myself.

[Host 2]

Oh, good. Are you in any type of therapy?

[Caller Mia]

No, my sister has been pushing me to get into therapy, but that's a start that I need to do.

[Host 2]

Well, hopefully this is a start. This is not therapy for sure, but certainly like, you know, just getting it off your chest, talking to a third party, you know, someone who's like, kind of objective and not like, invested in the outcome of your life, but like, you know, and if you do jump into therapy, I would recommend, you know, when your therapist, like, what do you want to talk about? I would just humble opinion. You know, not talk about, like, oh, my dating life sucks and I don't know why these men do this or blah, blah, blah. I'm not, you know, I was. I think you should focus about, like, well, I. I have a hard time investing in myself, in my dreams, and. And I think it should be about how you really prioritize yourself in your heart and what's stopping you from accomplishing all your goals and dreams. You know, a part of that is the men that you are prior to prioritizing, but to someone who can give you a little bit of motivation, you know, And I get. I only say that because when you're jumping to therapy, you got to find the right therapist for you. And I want you to find someone who you feel like really gets you and you feel inspired by and can challenge you and push you to reach your potential, rather than someone who wants to listen to you complain about why don't. Things don't work out for you, you know, And I think both therapists exist out there.

[Caller Mia]

Okay.

[Caller Amy]

All right, Cool.

[Host 2]

All right, Take care.

[Caller Olivia]

Thank you.

[Host 2]

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[Host 1]

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[Caller Olivia]

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[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

10 how's it going?

[Caller Olivia]

It's going. How are you?

[Host 2]

Good. What's your name?

[Caller Olivia]

My name is OLIVIA and I'm 32 years old.

[Host 2]

And how can I help Olivia?

[Caller Olivia]

So I got divorced like two years ago now.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Caller Olivia]

I was blindsided at the time that I was initiated and he kind of blamed me for everything. And then Thanksgiving this last year, my friend saw a tick tock and it showed that he like, is remarried. And after like doing some investigating, he had an affair with this girl, got her pregnant. And so I kind of found all that out. And so it was just like a weird thing to realize. Like for two years I carried this burden of like that I was, you know, to blame for this whole divorce. And then meanwhile I found out that he like had this whole other like life.

[Host 2]

So when you say he had an affair. You found out that he was hanging out with this, this person, this woman while you guys were.

[Caller Olivia]

I found out that he, yeah. Had this, like, whole other side girl. Got her pregnant like three through TikTok.

[Host 2]

And how did you guys make that connection that it, like, it's been two years. How do you know he didn't, like, meet her, like, I don't know, a year ago?

[Caller Olivia]

The dates that she posted the tick tocks were while we were together, like, separated.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Caller Olivia]

All right.

[Host 2]

And what was the reasoning he claimed was your fault?

[Caller Olivia]

He said that, like, basically I didn't make enough money, he didn't like my job. I was like, holding him back. And then the girl that he ended up cheating with had the same exact job as me.

[Host 2]

I mean, I know it's. I know it's 2026 and we're all like progressive, like people, but I've. He divorced you because you didn't make enough money?

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, he said so. He was like, Korean in, like, I guess, Asian culture. They have to like, retire their parents. So he had this like, whole plan that he was gonna, like, blame it on his parents. And he said that he had to take care of them and they're like, very able bodied. There's no, like, illnesses. And so he had this whole thing of, like, he had to take care of them and, like, I didn't make enough money to like, bring to the table for it. Essentially.

[Host 2]

That was his big gripe. Is that you, you, you weren't like making it rain or something, like, I guess.

[Caller Olivia]

And I like, I wanted to go back to school to be a nurse and that's what he was. And he told me, like, I wouldn't like it and saw this stuff, but I think it's probably because, like, he had maybe girls at the hospital he could cheat with or something. I don't really know and didn't want me to maybe be there.

[Host 2]

Gotcha. And I'm just curious, like, when he asked for this divorce or just, you know, over the past couple of years, like, how much were you really, like, stewing on his reasoning or, like, did it, did it. Did you believe his reasoning? Did it?

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, I, I honestly, like, he said he was so convincing. I feel like he just made it seem like I wasn't smart enough. And like, he had told me he wanted to have really smart kids and like, really athletic kids. He didn't know if I would be able to help them with their homework and just kind of like all this stuff and said that, like, I Didn't cook enough, I didn't clean enough, and all I did was meal prep for him. Like, I don't know. So it was just like, all these, like, little reasonings. And then I know you kind of, like, carry that with you, and he blocked me, like, on Instagram and blocked my whole family. And it's probably because, like, obviously had a baby coming and didn't want us to know. I don't know. You just kind of carry these things with you, and you're like, oh. Like, to the detriment of, like, you don't know any different. And then it's kind of just. He was covering up this whole other, like, life.

[Host 2]

When you say these things out loud to me, how does it sound to you?

[Caller Olivia]

Crazy.

[Host 2]

In what part, specifically?

[Caller Olivia]

I think it makes me sound really sad for, like, wanting that in a partner.

[Host 2]

Well, you don't want that in a partner.

[Caller Olivia]

No, no, no.

[Host 2]

To be clear, I think it was

[Caller Olivia]

just, like, a big shock, and it was kind of like a really big disservice to find out, like, the truth of everything. Like, two years later, he also, like, moved with her to the, like, exact location that I tried to get us to move to. And, like, their wedding pictures looked exactly like ours. Like, it was just, like, very weird.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's weird. But those are all things that, quite honestly, I feel like, are kind of inconsequential in the big picture. I get why it's easy to get wrapped up in it in terms of, like, showing your girls and be like, this is so fucked up. You know, it really is.

[Caller Olivia]

Kind of looks like me, sure.

[Host 2]

But again, like, you're you. You Mentally, I feel like you're. You're having the wrong perspective or you have a perspective that it's not. It's. It's not helping you. It's not serving you. You know, it is. It is. It is keeping you invested in a situation that, quite frankly, as soon as this man opened his mouth two years ago about why he wanted to leave, you should have been enough to been like, listen, I'm hurt, and I am upset that you are bringing this to my attention now, but if you told me this is what you expected of me in this marriage, I wouldn't ever wanted to marry a guy like you, you know? Or it's just like, the way. The way you're communicating what he communicated is just like, first of all, it's like 1970 anymore.

[Caller Olivia]

And I remember saying something, too, where it was just like, I kind of know exactly how you'll be as A parent, like, because he. We both like to go to the gym and stuff. And he said that basically I would have to be a stay at home mom. And I'm like, it's kind of exhausting to be at home with a kid all day. Like, he had never been around kids. I'd, like, nanny'd. I've like, a lot of, like, cousins. And I'm like, what if I want to go to the gym? Like, you know, for a little break? And he was like, well, you could work out at home. And I'm like, it sounds like you would want to babysit your kid. And like, I hate that.

[Host 2]

Like, no, it sounds like he expects his wife to be his prisoner. Like, I don't. And it's.

[Caller Olivia]

I don't know, it's just so crazy because I never thought that he was like, a cheater. I knew his friends.

[Host 2]

Forget about the cheating. Just like, let's just set that aside. Who gives a fuck about that right now? I mean, honestly, it's crazy that it's not sound to say, but, like, the way he talked to you about how is what his expectations were of his wife and the mother of his children is that you were supposed to be like a servant to him and the kids. And he expected you to have, like, no life. You're not even allowed to go to the gym.

[Caller Olivia]

That's true.

[Host 2]

And at some point, I think you're well overdue from being angry at him in a way that's like he wasted your time with pretending that his expectations in marriage were something very different than what he ended up showing you. And instead of being angry at that, you have been caught up in this drama of this other girl and this baby in this wedding, which, honestly, at this stage you should be like, listen, I am sad for her because, like, she doesn't know yet. But, like, I am just so glad this person's out of my life that whatever they're doing, I'm just glad it's not with me. That's where you should be given the information.

[Caller Olivia]

No, I definitely feel better about it now. Like in November when I found out, it was a little.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I get it. Sure, sure.

[Caller Olivia]

For a second. And I've been like, a lot of therapy, you know, some Prozac is helping, I think. Now I do, like, just really feel bad for her because I think, like, when I was her, because she's younger than him and I think, you know, at first I was like, oh, my God, I, like, need to tell her, show her. Like, he. But it just wouldn't do anything. It doesn't serve.

[Host 2]

No, no. It's not your business. You shouldn't be reaching out to her. You need to just. No, no.

[Caller Olivia]

And I think now I'm kind of, like, at the point where, like, I'm glad it's not happening. Happening to me, but I feel bad that it's happening to her and she doesn't know any better yet. And, like, it sucks that there's, like, a kid involved.

[Host 2]

It's just not your problem. It's not your problem.

[Caller Olivia]

No, no. I think now I just don't know how to, like, move on or just like, sort of trust someone again. I feel, like, very traumatized.

[Host 2]

Well, that's, I guess, to be expected. But my concern for you is I don't feel like there's a lot of trying to move on here. As much as there could be.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And listen, but you're also. Because right now it sounds like your energy has gone into kind of obsessing over what happened. And I've been there, so, like, no judgment, so. But listen, unfortunately, like, life brings us very difficult challenges. Sometimes the people we love the most hurt us the most. It is an unfactoring, an unfortunate fact of life in those situations when those people hurt us, sometimes they are contrite and they really want to put in the work to, like, work on mending the relationship and fences. And you can decide whether you want to stay in it or not. Other times you just realize that's not who they were. But, like, yeah, part of. Part of life is to heal and process and to get over it and not to, like, you know, part of it is just acknowledging that bad things can happen to us and it's not the end of the world. And while our egos make it feel like you're such a loser for this to happen to you, it's. It's. It. It happens to all at all of us. Right. And. But you're, You're. It's going to be really difficult for you to trust someone when you don't let yourself move on from this toxic situation. And I. It sounds like the way you speak that you always bring it back to that. You know, no matter what conversation you're having with what friend about whatever, I'm guessing you find a way to bring it back to him and what happened and this. And again, I totally get it. Am I. Am I right?

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, it's been a little better recently.

[Host 2]

A little better. And that's good. That's good. But the fact that it's. Yeah. But the fact that it's been two years and it's also been five months since this news, it's just like you're not. It's. It's. It needs to be happening a little quicker, you know, and the fact that. The fact that it's going as slow as it is tells me that you are still, like. It's still a big part of where your mental energy goes.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And it's very. It's a very difficult situation. But, you know, when you first tell the story, it almost sounded like you're. You're. Your husband cheated on you with another girl and got her pregnant as opposed to he did. Yeah. But you found out two years later. You know, again, it just like you. The way you first told the story, it almost sounded like this was happening in real time.

[Caller Olivia]

Oh, no, it felt. I think it was just, like, so different because I had really kind of come to peace, like, with the whole divorce, and then it was just, like, ripped back open. Like, once I saw, like, the TikToks, and then I was, like, looking at the dates and, like, when the baby was born, it was like, oh, our divorce was finalized and you had her six months pregnant.

[Host 2]

Yeah, Yeah, I get it. Listen, your ego, that. That news would destroy anyone's ego. It would. I mean, very, very hard to process. It sure makes you feel less than. It makes you feel foolish and stupid and all the things that our ego tells us when things don't go our way. But objectively speaking, none of that information, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it didn't change.

[Caller Olivia]

It didn't, like, change anything.

[Host 2]

No, it didn't change the fact that, like, he made it very clear two years ago that thank God, he divorced you. I mean, I just, you know.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like I am sort of like the lucky one. Like, I get to have like a whole, I guess, like, redo on life. Like, I'm not.

[Host 2]

But you. You have. You have to accept that and believe it and move forward and just kind of stop. You gotta let. Let this. Let them go. Let the situation kind of, you know, and I. And I say this because, like, And I say this was love. And I know it's been a difficult time, but you kind of need to get over it yourself. And, you know, you. There's some version of you that it keeps saying, I can't believe this happened to me.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And it's not, I can't believe this happened. It said, I can't believe this happened to me. And that part, you need to get over yourself. It happens to all of us. It's, you know, it's crazy. And I get it. Like, this story is crazy. It's something you would, you know, you're used to putting on this podcast and hearing other people's crazy story and saying, that's crazy. I. I would never put myself in a situation like that. I can't believe that. You know, it's great. You know, so many people, like, I'm so grateful for people like you who call in and are very vulnerable to distilleries. And I. And I wish the audience, you know, most. I think most people listen and go about their days, but every once in a while, someone goes online and is very judgmental of. Of our dear callers. And it's always coming from a place of, like, we just. We just think it's not going to happen to us, and that's. But when it does, it's our ego, you know, it's just like. But it happens to all of us. Some version of some crazy story of, like, you know, and the truth is, like, yeah, love is messy. We only have so much control and what happens in our love lives because, like, there's another party that's responsible for how things play out. And when that person quits or lies or is deceitful or isn't upfront with their expectations, there is only so much we can do. And that's very defeating and very, you know, it's hard to process, but you are acting like there's something you could have done differently, and you couldn't. You just have to accept the fact that you got a little duped and misled, and there's probably nothing you could have done. And thank God you found out when you did. And thank God you weren't the one who got pregnant.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, I think, like, because when he had presented it to me, like, I was just, like, very thrown off guard. And he made it seem like he was gonna, like, try to make stuff work, and then he just put forth zero effort. And. Yeah, what do you say? He was like, I tried to wear my wedding ring. It was just so, like, I couldn't do it. I'm like, that's really not you trying to do anything. And I was, like, trying, like, I had to, like, beg him to hang out with me, which is, like, obviously so sad to even say that out loud. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I really tried to put forth, like, all this effort, and he just obviously did nothing because he had this whole other, like, little Plan, you know, with this girl to go have this baby and marry her. And then I found out, you know, like, obviously it have. What happened was, like, way different than, like, what he told me. And I feel like I just gave him, like, a lot of opportunities. I was like, is there someone else? And he was like, no. No idea. Nothing. And then it just was like a whole, like a big. I don't even know of. Like, you aren't who I thought you were, like, at all.

[Host 2]

Yeah, but you're still trying to figure him out.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You know, you need it.

[Caller Amy]

You.

[Host 2]

You need to catch yourself at this point when you're like, you mean you're trying to ex. You know, tell the story of you two, you know, and. And you're trying to understand why he did what he did and is it. And. And. And. And part of that is you trying to figure out what you could have done differently or should you have known better. I really think you just have to be like, listen, I got a bad beat. You know, It's. This was. I mean, sure, I could have done things differently, but I, I. But I don't think, you know, I don't. I got lied. You got. He got. You got lied to, and it sucks.

[Caller Olivia]

I got duped.

[Host 2]

You got duped. Happens to the best of us. Certainly. There's things you can learn in the sense that, like, you know, priorly, if anything, you're gonna. If you're gonna reflect back, it's just thinking about how you. How your body felt when you ask some questions, like, is there something else? Someone else? You know? And he was like, no. You know, and maybe he kind of meant what he said or didn't mean what he says, but what he said was so crazy and so different than what he had presented to you when you first met or when you said, I do or when you got married, that things didn't add up. You know, and when things don't add up, there's usually a reason why.

[Caller Olivia]

He had also said, maybe in five or 10 years, if we both weren't remarried, we could just marry each other again. And I was like, are you, like, actually crazy? Why would I remarry you?

[Host 2]

I don't know. That is crazy.

[Caller Olivia]

I. I think he just.

[Host 2]

I think. I think you should not finish that thought. And I think you should stop thinking about what he's thinking. You need to stop figuring him out. That's your big hurdle. Right? I don't think in my limited time talking to you, I don't think you realize just how obsessed with this situation, you are. And I get it, you are the main character in this situation, so it makes sense why you are invested. But nevertheless, you are obsessed, and I have been there, and it's holding you back. And when you ask yourself, why can't I move on and why can't I heal, it's because you keep asking yourself why as it relates to him. You have too many why questions. You need to, like. You need to ask yourself the what questions? What happened? He lied to me. What happened? He led, you know, he duped me. What happened? He turned into, like, someone. I do not. I did not say I do too. Like, that's not the guy I agreed to marry. But that was. I don't know what that was. I didn't recognize that person. It was a little. Honestly, caught me off guard. And that's all you need to ask yourself is the what happened? Why. Why he did this? Why did I. You know, that doesn't. It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter anymore. Especially now that you're not in the relationship. Especially now that he's with someone else. That's all ego stuff, you know, why am I not good enough? Why? You know, why wasn't my face card enough for him to be like, whatever you want, baby. You know, like. You know what I'm saying? Why wasn't my sex. So. I don't. You know, I don't know why. You know what I'm saying? Like, but our ego wants us to be. You know, it's like, if we're annoying, we want to be so beautiful that people don't care that we're annoying. If we're. If we're. If we're so charming, we want to be so charming that we don't care that if our. I don't know, like, whatever our shortcomings are, we want our strengths to be good enough for people to accept us. But, like, this has nothing really to do with him accepting you. He has demonstrated some things that make it clear that this is about him and his journey and you're making it about you. And then when I say you need to get over yourself, that's the part. I mean, you really need to get over the role you played and you being duped.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, I get that.

[Host 2]

You know, and rather than having fun dramatizing it with your friends, you just need to, like, let it go. You just need to stop talking about it.

[Caller Olivia]

Just, like, classify that he's like, a weirdo loser and just be done.

[Host 2]

Yeah. You know, when you. When you go to a Comedy show and the comedians like, does anyone have a crazy breakup story? You need to not raise your hand or think to myself, oh, I got one. You know what I'm saying? You. You know, you.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

This has become your identity. You have made this into who you are. You, in your head have become the girl who got cheated on, whose ex husband married someone else and stole your inspo pictures for their own wedding. Oh, no. And that's who. That's who you've become. You've allowed yourself to become that per. You're not that person. But that you've become so obsessed with this story because honestly, it's juicy and it's crazy and it's like, you know, it's. And it's your own life and you got a front row seat to it, you know, and it did hurt, you know, and it. You up a little bit and. But you've gotten past the point of like a reasonable amount of time where it. It would like hurt for anyone, and now you've. Now you're obsessed with it.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, it's a. It's been getting a little better, I promise.

[Host 2]

I. No doubt, thank God it has gotten a little better, but it also has been two years and six months. And both timelines from when you found out are just like a little, you know, it needs to be getting. It should be done by now is kind of my point.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, no, I agree. I think it was more so like the, like finding everything out, you know, was like a big jolt.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Caller Olivia]

Like a hole in the process, but

[Host 2]

you allow yourself to process it, you know, and again, like, you're going to have to trust in the future, you know, that might be difficult at times, but like, I think you got to get some practice. And again, just that everyone's like that, you know, there are a lot of liars out there. But.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What would you have asked him differently,

[Caller Olivia]

you know, like during the divorce process?

[Host 2]

No, I mean early. No, like the. I do process, like the dating him. Like, you know, like, I mean, it sounds like he brought up some like, he expectations of how you were supposed to be as a wife and as a mother that you had never talked about with him.

[Caller Olivia]

I think he was so different. Like, he switched up like so quickly because he wasn't really like that. I mean, he kind of sucked into the sense of like, if my friends would come over for like my sister and her husband would come, he would just like always leave. Like he never wanted to be like, around like my family or anything.

[Host 2]

All right.

[Caller Olivia]

Which now I'm like, oh, that's kind of like a really big red flag.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I mean it's one thing to like, you know, not. You don't always have to like want to be best friends with your quote unquote in laws. But it should ma. If it's, if it matters to your partner, it should matter to you that you develop some kind. That you're at least there sometimes, you know, that there's some attempt at being around for them to get to know you and feel comfortable with, you know, especially if you're supposed to have a job that pays for his parents retirement, you know. So again like clearly things then add up and maybe you can ask better questions in the future, but don't let yourself become, don't let this dictate more of your life than it already has and don't just don't become some like victim of dating drama. I mean like again, shitty things happen to all of us and we can get over them and you can get over this. And it definitely will leave a scar, no doubt, but it can still heal and it can be a reminder of how you move a little bit differently in the future. And it certainly might take some work, you might develop some abandonment issues that you can work through with therapy over the years. But right now it's crippling you and it's, it's really stopping you from just moving forward and getting back out there and trying to meet new people. I. My hope for you. Is this the last time you talk about it?

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, I, I feel kind of more like the last few weeks I feel a little bit more like at peace with everything because it's like, obviously it's the same outcome. Like I couldn't have done anything differently. I think like, you know, at the time I found out it was just like my whole world was like turned upside down. And I, I do feel better now because I mean, obviously like it's been quite some time I think. And I know how you are about like closure and stuff, but it was like in my head I'm like, oh, you. Everything he like tried to blame me for is like what he kind of was. And everything was just like trying to get the heat off of him and like make him look better when everything was like his fault.

[Host 2]

But yeah, who is he? Who is he looking better for

[Caller Olivia]

himself?

[Host 2]

Whatever. I mean, it doesn't, as far as you're concerned, it's irrelevant. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, but like what. It's the thing we do. It's like we get so worried about our exes trying to look good. And like, what? Who cares what he looks like? Yeah, he will make his choices. Sounds like he's not making amazing choices for himself. When we make bad choices, those bad choices often catch up with us. You know, if you're. Don't waste your life sitting around waiting for vindication that he his own life up, it's not your problem anymore. You gotta let go. You got. And in some ways, you gotta forgive him. And it should be easy because you do not want to be married to this guy. And in a way, you should be like, thank you for leaving me when you did. Thank you for revealing who you were when you did with me and have literal gratitude towards him.

[Caller Olivia]

I think at first everyone was like, you dodged a bullet. And I really didn't see that until recently because I was like, oh my God, I loved him so much. How will I ever find someone who's like, better? And I'm like, oh my God, like, that's the only thing I think I can find now is like, someone who's better than that. Because, like, people don't really move. I think not everyone moves in the world like that. It's just like crazy that it, you know, happened.

[Host 2]

It is crazy, but it happened. And you. It. It's. It's not the craziest story, but it sucks. And you just have to like, it's not that you should be able to laugh about this in a couple years.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, I mean, we kind of like, use him as like a. As like a slur name. Like if someone does, like if my sister's husband does something, we're like, oh, you're being such a.

[Host 2]

Sure, but like, let's. No, I know, but let's not make him so involved in our lives that we, we invoke it his name anytime someone fucks up. I just mean, like, nothing like what you've been through. But you know, my early relationships, like, you know, they. I did not process some of those breakups very well. And we both play a role in yada, yada, yada. And I'm just saying it's like such a distant memory. I never think about that relationship. But when I do, I do think about the crazy times and how down bad I was and what my. What my frame of mind was and how low I was. And I chuckle because again, I've obviously am so far removed. I am so fortunate and grateful where I am today in everything I have in my life, that I wouldn't trade those moments for the world right and so you're either going to get over this, pick yourself back out, get the fuck back out there, work on yourself, therapy, whatever. Just, you know, invest in yourself, get your shit together, you know, and handle your emotions in a productive way. And eventually you're going to meet someone and hopefully you have done the work that you can really be grounded in your decision making. It'll be difficult, but, like, at some point, I don't know when that's going to happen in your life. You will be so happy that, like, you will not trade this. You will not wish it didn't happen, because it will be part of your story. And it's probably hard for you to envision that because you're so. It's so raw right now. It's the hurt so real and the pain so real, and it's so much of, you know, but, like, eventually you will be glad that this happened. But to get there, you have to, like, you just have to accept it and move forward.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, I think, like, I'm actually about to graduate nursing school, and I think the amount of, like, pressure he would, like, put on me, sort of, you know, obviously, like, make more money. Like, you got to be smart because you got to have, like, I got to have smart kids, got to help them with their homework, you know, all that, it was like, so much pressure. And I think, like, now without him, like, there's like, such a relief sort of that, like, I feel like I'm doing so well in school and just, like, I'm. I have, like, stuff lightened up for when I graduate. Like, it's just things definitely got better without him. But I think, like, you know, at first it was so hard to, like.

[Host 2]

Yeah. So that's what I want you to. Yeah, the things. And that's what I want you to focus on, you know, what has happened since he's been out of your life. It's again. What? Over. Why? Stop asking yourself why. Stop trying to understand this breakup and stop trying to understand how it happened, why it happened. It's just what happened, you know?

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, that's true.

[Host 2]

And, and, and when good things are happening in your life as a result of you moving forward, focus your energy on that, you know?

[Caller Olivia]

I agree. Yeah. I think things definitely got better. So it took a little bit, but,

[Host 2]

yeah, don't tell your, you know, and the narratives of, like, well, how can I trust anyone again? Well, you do. By trying. You know, you just go out there and you survive this. It didn't kill you. You've bounced back pretty well. You're finished out school. You proved him wrong. You know what I'm saying? Like, you. You're, like, so good, you know? Yeah. The only thing that you're not there yet is this, like, how you approach it mentally in your head and the stories you tell yourself. It's just a narrative.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah. I think it would, like, obviously words stick with you and, like, you know, like, when they're kind of so mean like that, you just, like, start to believe it a little bit. And it's hard to be like, oh, actually, I'm, like, not stupid to a point.

[Host 2]

Yeah. But I do think it's like, I. You know, I just think our. You know, I think it's just more. I don't know. I mean, I get what you're saying, but I know I. I just think deep down, you know, you're not. And I know it's mean to hear someone say that. It's mean to hear someone you. You love, and I don't doubt it has some kind of effect on you, but, you know, what did you do? You. You went back to school and you became a very. You know, it's like you. So deep down, you knew you could level them.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah. You know, I think a lot of it, too, is, like, I was, like, successful in doing that because he wasn't there.

[Host 2]

What do you mean?

[Caller Olivia]

Like, I did all that by myself, like, without him. And, like, he kind of made things, like, his, like, presence just, like, made things, like, maybe worse or whatever, because I, like, I'm doing better without, like, there was just so much, like, unspoken pressure, you know? And, like, now without him, like, I just feel better.

[Host 2]

That's awesome.

[Caller Olivia]

I'm, like, more successful.

[Host 2]

I love that. Yeah.

[Caller Olivia]

Than I was.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I mean, listen, you're. You're. You're so there. The only thing you just have to try to stop is just these conversations. Yeah. Is figuring it out, is understanding it. And, you know, and. And there's a party that's kind of. You know, I've. You know, sometimes we have a hard time letting go of the most toxic relationships because we get so comfortable in them being a part of our lives. And hearing you talk about everything you've done since then, it's like the only thing you haven't done is just simply let them go and let that relationship go and just truly say goodbye to it and just let it be something that becomes a distant memory right now. There hasn't been a day since you guys certainly. There hasn't been a day since you found out about this Other TikTok where you haven't thought about it.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And I, it. That's. That needs to change.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, I agree. I did. She like blocked me at first and then she unblocked me. But then. Or she showed up on my Instagram as like a suggested friend and then I was like, actually, this is like my life. I don't have to like look at you. So I blocked her on everything because I was like, actually, I don't really give a shit about your videos. You can have him, like please take him because obviously he's not like a stand up guy.

[Host 2]

Have him. That's great. Yeah, you definitely. Yeah. And you, you shouldn't know anything about her. It's none of your business. His is. This is. He's two years removed from being in his life. I mean, he could join the. It's none of your business anymore.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Your life is none of his business. I would just challenge yourself to let go and stop with the why questions. Stop talking about this story with your friends. I can do that and I'd really, you know, what is your. What is your story is something you should be mindful of right now. Your story is I survived a really bad divorce and I got over and duped by my ex husband and I'd love your story to start being some version of I reinvented myself later in life. I had the guts to go back in school. I accomplished this really cool dream of mine that a lot of people don't and I'm kind of a badass and I'm resilient and difficult things like I can, you know, that should be your story. And you can tell that story without ever mentioning his name or the details of what, you know what I'm saying? Especially the only part in your new version of your story is the mention of your resiliency. And that's the only. And he has lumped up into that part of your resiliency and there's other things that you've been resilient for. But that needs to be your new story because right, you know, you need to rewrite your story because right now your story, you know, if you were to write your story, that would be the beginning, middle and end. It would be all centered around your divorce. And you need to change that.

[Caller Olivia]

I like that. I agree. Yeah, I, I feel like exhausted by it in a way. You know, and then I think it, you know, depends on the day too, where I'm like, okay, I really didn't come this far, like for no reason. And like, I Did this by myself. So, like, I feel better in that sense. It's just hard to. Being in school, I can't really, like, go out and like, really meet anyone, you know, you're just kind of.

[Host 2]

No, I get it. And that's fine. And right now, then, that version is like, right now I'm just focused on school and my personal accomplishments. Okay? It's not because I don't know how to trust, you know, again, like, it's just. You have to tell yourself different narratives. Your narrative right now is one of kind of defeat and. And victim. And you were a victim, don't get me wrong. But, like, you know, I just.

[Caller Olivia]

It's not the whole story.

[Host 2]

It's not the whole story. And. And I'm guessing you don't want your story to be. I'm a victim. I'm guessing you want your story to be. I've. I've been victimized. I've been hurt, but I overcame. I'm resilient. I can respond to difficult times. I'm a badass, you know, like, that's a. Yeah, I like that story better for anyone, you know, but we all, like, sometimes being a. You know, I've leaned into being a victim. It's natural, you know, but the fact that you're exhausted, your body is telling you it's just time to move on, babe. You know, like, it's really ready. So just give. Just do yourself a favor and check yourself when he pops in your head. When you catch yourself asking why, you got to just shut it down, down. You have to just change your thought. What is my news? That's the different. That's the old me. What's the new me? What's the. What's the version when you. When people ask you about. You gotta check yourself when you find a way to insert that story. You know, if. If someone likes, like, oh, you gotta hear her. You gotta hear Nicole story. You're like, ah. You know, honestly, no, you don't. It's not that interesting, you know, you gotta downplay it, you know, not. Not have it be your moment at the dinner party, you know, not it be the thing that, like, oh, my God. Ugh, the drama. And again, I know what it's like to be that per. You know, I just got so used to telling my sad stories to people. I loved it. It was like I was the main character. No, but we do that. You know, it's like, it really is.

[Caller Olivia]

Because it's probably like the most fucked up thing that's happened in my friend Group or whatever, you know.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And in a way you're special. You're special for being the most fucked up. No, it's really, it's true. That's how our ego with us because

[Caller Olivia]

it's like, oh my God, she found out he cheated, like from a tick tock. Like, it's like, yeah.

[Host 2]

And you're like, yeah, I'm that dumb.

[Caller Olivia]

You know, literally, like, how did I not know he had a whole girlfriend?

[Host 2]

No, I know, but you get the sympathy and you're getting. Oh my God, that's crazy, girl. You know, like again, I think we just have to be careful about how, what kind of attention we receive and who we receive it from and why we're receiving it.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, I agree.

[Host 2]

Your body is telling you you're exhausted of, of this narrative in this version. You gotta listen to your body. Body.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, I think it was like that I like held out, you know, like some hope or whatever for like a little bit of time. Like after the divorce. Because he like put it out there sort of.

[Host 2]

Yeah, but no, but, but when you look back. Why, you know, you should have, you shouldn't have held that hope. You should, you know, like that was some crazy. He said to you.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah. And like later on, I think, like, because I would just replay it over and over. Like it was the only way I could like try to. Because I just wanted to figure it out because I need like an answer or. And there's no answer. I mean, now I know all this, but I think it was just sort of like I, I had hope and now it's just. I feel like I got the most closure that I could have ever asked for and I just like need to leave it.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's a good thing to remind yourself. You, you actually got a ton of closure, but you were unwilling to accept it. You got closure when he asked for the divorce. You got closure again six months ago. None of it was good enough. But instead of, of taking that closure, you used it as a gateway to ask yourself why and, and, and get caught up in the drama of your own story.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah. And I think it's easy to like when you really like wanted, wanted it to work with someone and they just like gave you all these reasons like about yourself that like why it didn't work or whatever.

[Host 2]

I mean, that's the thing.

[Caller Olivia]

Tried to.

[Host 2]

You're right. But you're right. You're not stupid. You're not naive. You're not a fool. It happens to the best of us and the smartest of us. All because we lose objectivity. We have to be vulnerable to be in love. You were vulnerable, and that vulnerability was taken for granted. It's like. It's a tale as old as time. So just allow that to be okay. Humble yourself that it can happen to you like it happens to all of us, and stop trying to figure it out.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah. I think I just have to say, like, he's a loser. Sure, take him.

[Host 2]

I think. I think more than anything, you just need to stop thinking of him. Yeah.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It doesn't define.

[Caller Olivia]

I feel like I have, like, a lot of good things going and, like, he doesn't have anything to do with it. So, like, it doesn't matter.

[Host 2]

Yes. And that's the thing you need to start giving more attention to there.

[Caller Olivia]

I'll take that.

[Host 2]

Okay. All right. Well, congratulations on all your, you know, success that you've accomplished lately, and thank you. You should be really proud of that and keep. Keep doing that. You are. You're only 32. Stop. But. But. But these are very precious years that I. If I'm. You wouldn't want to waste on someone like him. You've done that.

[Caller Olivia]

Yeah, I agree. I think it was, like. I keep, like, looking at it as, like, a second chance and, like, the best thing that could have happened, and I'm glad it happened now than years later when we had a kid or whatever.

[Host 2]

Yeah. All right.

[Caller Olivia]

Thank you so much.

[Host 2]

Be mindful of your narrative. That's. That's my big takeaway.

[Caller Olivia]

I like that. I definitely will.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Caller Olivia]

Okay.

[Host 2]

All right. Take care.

[Caller Olivia]

All right, you too. Thank you so much.

[Host 2]

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