E1121 - Running Point w/ Jay Ellis, Boz Calls Out Andy, Dorit Loses Her Mind & Men Over Money

Summary

The Viall Files – Episode E1121: "Running Point" w/ Jay Ellis, Boz Calls Out Andy, Dorit Loses Her Mind & Men Over Money

Release Date: May 5, 2026
Host: Nick Viall
Guests: Jay Ellis, Lisa Traeger, Mary, Justin, plus the “Household”

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Episode Overview

In this Reality Recap mega-episode, Nick Viall and the Viall Files crew serve up a mix of relationships, parenting stories, Hollywood insight, and “hot goss” from the world of reality television. Special guest Jay Ellis (star of Netflix’s "Running Point") joins for a candid chat about his unconventional rise in Hollywood, lessons from Top Gun, fatherhood, and authenticity in showbiz. Later, Bravo expert Lisa Traeger returns to break down the latest scandals from "Summer House," "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills," and "Summer House: Martha’s Vineyard," giving listeners a front-row seat to the messiest pop culture drama. Themes of authenticity vs. performative persona, the evolving media landscape, and friendship ethics take center stage.

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• [03:25] – Episode Kick-Off & Intros
• [10:33] – Jay Ellis Interview: Hollywood, “Running Point”, and Fatherhood
• [52:16] – Reality TV Deep Dive with Lisa Traeger: Summer House, RHOBH, and More
• [94:34] – Beverly Hills Reunion & Money, Men, and Women in Reality TV

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Jay Ellis Interview Highlights

[10:33 – 51:30]

Jay’s Origin Story in Hollywood

• Jay details moving to LA with dreams of being “the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air,” thinking he’d be “discovered” at a gym below an agency. Instead, he hustled through rejection, survived being dropped by his first agent (“You have no idea what you're doing, do you?” [13:29]), and worked retail before giving himself a do-or-die re-entry to Hollywood.
• Quote, Jay Ellis [14:41]: “I was afraid of rejection, I was afraid of the process, I was afraid of the journey. And if there was ever a time for me to, like, go do it and not have the regret of not trying, this was the time.”

Career Breakthroughs & Lessons

• First big break: Booking "The Game" after years of near-misses fueled by humility and a willingness to start from scratch.
• On working with legendary names (Top Gun, Tom Cruise): “The amazing thing about Tom is…he’s so giving of his time. ...He’ll tell you the story of sitting across from Jack Nicholson in 'A Few Good Men.'” [24:58]

“Running Point” & Collaborating with Comedy Talent

• On joining Mindy Kaling and Ike Barinholtz for "Running Point":
  • Jay's character name is “Jay” – "So confusing!" [17:19]
• Working with Kate Hudson: “The amazing thing about Kate is the ease at which she moves through…Fun, easiness, and confidence just ooze from her…She talks to everybody, cracks jokes, laughs at herself…” [20:54]

Parenting, Advice, & Gender Differences

• On his kids: “Boys are bonkers…he loves garbage trucks…My daughter at 2 could sit and color alone…” [29:06]
• Giving advice for potential future actors: “Go live a life, explore, find yourself a little bit…You need that for the career.” [31:44]

Adapting to a Changing Industry & Authenticity

• The shift to self-tapes and social media as the new proving ground: “I don’t even know how to tell people to start acting today other than to get in a class…” [33:44]
• On AI and creative scarcity: “There’ll be a scarcity of authenticity. People will still have a thirst for humans sharing their perspective…” [37:02]

Notable Quotes

• On rejection: “Every time I heard no, I was just like, I'm just getting closer to my yes.” – Jay Ellis [40:11]
• On success in showbiz: “It’s hard to connect to an audience…Whatever, it’s working.” – Jay Ellis [98:12]
• On drama vs. comedy: “Drama, to me…makes you dig into some stuff. I think good comedy can do that too.” – Jay Ellis [45:58]

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Reality TV Roundtable with Lisa Traeger

[52:16 – End]

Summer House "Commander" Scandal & Amanda's Choices

• The group dives deep into the Amanda/Kyle/West triangle, with Lisa lamenting, “Amanda took our opportunity to dunk on Kyle away. She could have been hot, single in the city. Instead Kyle’s a media darling!” [58:04]
• Amanda’s “justification for her choices is giving very Tom Sandoval in Scandoval” [59:40]—the panel debates who’s more at fault (Amanda vs. West) and rails on “fake feminists” and therapy-trained new male archetypes.
• Notable quote: “He is the new type of man in 2026. The fake feminist, emotionally literate, therapy-trained…feels disarming, feels like vulnerability…” – Nick Viall [60:43]

Bravo Fandom, Friendship Fallout, & Social Media

• Amanda’s loss of brand deals cited (Edie Parker, Jimmy John’s) and Lisa’s take: “Just because Amanda's bad doesn't make Kyle good.” [62:54]
• The “Ariana” effect: “Bravo fans always want someone to root for…Amanda was teed up for that, and she gave it away for a man.” [64:03]
• Lisa’s crime podcast mantra: “Don’t go to jail for a man.” [64:41]

RHOBH & The Currency of Money, Men, and Reputation

• RHOBH reunion drama dissected, with Dorit’s "mean girl" arc under fire: “She’s off her rocker…wants a medal for just not sharing your friends' personal information.” – Nick Viall [04:17, 105:21]
• Discussion on money, ambition & business ethics between Amanda and Boz: “At the end of the day, all you have is your word…Trust, honesty, those things do matter and when that’s broken...” – Lisa Traeger [66:10]
• The debate on making money: “When you're in business, the idea that you're not there to make money is disingenuous.” – Nick Viall [97:44]

Pop Culture, Parenting, & Gender Roles

• Parenting philosophies and “mental health days” for kids: “For some, I’ve learned, some people want to have kids. Some people enjoy being parents.” – Nick Viall [73:25]
• Jay Ellis on boys vs. girls: “He wants his food, his trucks. That’s it…My daughter would just color.” [29:06]
• Lisa rants about stay-at-home TV rituals, collectibles, and hypnotherapy: “Instead of therapy, I just hop from witch to witch…” [86:21]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

Jay Ellis

• On getting discovered: “I literally thought that someone was just gonna find me on the streets…”
• On “Running Point” love triangle: “I was like, with Kate Hudson, huh?…She’s up-and-coming, you know.”
• On handling rejection: “Every time I got told no, I was just like, I'm just getting closer to my yes.”
• On drama vs. comedy: “Good comedy can dig into the heavy stuff, but drama makes you really sit in it—and that’s tough.”

Lisa Traeger & Reality Panel

• On Amanda/Summer House fallout: “Amanda took our opportunity to dunk on Kyle away…” [58:04]
• On "men over money": “Don't go to jail for a man.” [64:41]
• On Bravo friendship breakups: “If you start giving me acronyms of your business, I check out…”
• On JoEllen’s mom (RHODY): “She did not do her best. She literally sent her kid away for being ‘promiscuous,’ just for having big boobs.”
• On reality TV’s authenticity: “We are a part of—they’re really sharing their real lives…We’ve seen children be born, we’ve seen people go to prison…”

Notable Group Banter

• [105:21] - Nick on Dorit: “She wants a medal for just not sharing your friends’ personal information.”
• [60:43] - Nick on West: “He is the new type of man in 2026…emotionally literate, therapy-trained. Feels disarming.”
• [66:10] - Lisa: “At the end of the day, all you really have is your word.”

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Quick Takes & Pop Culture References

• Top Gun nostalgia & set stories ([22:34]): “Getting in a jet…no matter how much you train, it’s one of the most exhilarating…adrenaline…” – Jay Ellis
• Summer House/Martha’s Vineyard: “I don’t want Maddie and Joe Bradley together…I want Maddie to soar!” – Lisa Traeger [91:28]
• Beverly Hills/Money Talk: “You are allowed to make as much money as possible. It comes off as disingenuous to pretend otherwise.” – Nick Viall [97:44]
• Parenting in Modern Hollywood: “Go live life. You need that for the career.” – Jay Ellis [31:44]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:25 – Reality Recap & Viall Family Life
• 04:17 – Preview of Beverly Hills reunion drama
• 10:33 – Jay Ellis: Acting origin, "Running Point" & Hollywood stories
• 22:34 – Top Gun nostalgia & authenticity in the industry
• 29:06 – Boys vs. girls: Parenting dilemmas
• 31:44 – Advice for would-be actors in today's market
• 33:44 – Shift to self-tapes, social media, and the future of acting
• 37:02 – AI and authenticity in Hollywood
• 45:58 – Drama vs. Comedy: Emotional labor in performance
• 52:16 – Lisa Traeger joins: Reality TV scandal deep dive
• 58:04 – Amanda, Kyle & West: Friendship and loyalty in reality TV
• 62:54 – Debating blame in Bravo cheating scandals
• 66:10 – “All you have is your word”: Ethics in reality TV
• 73:25 – Parenting and the myth of parenthood’s transformation
• 97:44 – Money, women, and authenticity in business and reality TV
• 105:21 – Dorit’s “mean girl” critique and reunion fallout

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Viall Files delivers a lively blend of celebrity insight, candid parenting talk, and incisive pop culture analysis—anchored by the vulnerability and honesty of Jay Ellis’ Hollywood journey and the raucous, unfiltered Bravo discourse. The discussion underscores a generational shift in what authenticity, ambition, and friendship mean on (and off) TV. For anyone following the latest reality TV drama or looking for real talk about real-life relationships, this episode is packed with laughter, learnings, and memorable moments.

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If you missed this episode, you missed heart, heat, and a heap of hot reality goss.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Mary]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the VI Files Reality recap edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household, including my lovely wife. We got Mary, we got Justin here. We got a great episode. So much to get into, some amazing guests. Lisa Trigger returns to the Vile Files. You know where you love her. She's hilarious, and she has a lot to say about some of your favorite Bravo shows, including the Summer House Commander scandal. Rhode island is pop. It's a great show.

[Justin]

I'm so glad you're here finally.

[Nick]

It's really, really. That was a really great episode.

[Justin]

It's.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

I'm locked in all the characters, Doll, party, masks, accents.

[Nick]

I. I take back anything I ever said about Joe, Ellen and her mom.

[Justin]

Thank you.

[Nick]

That was. That was hardcore hard to watch. Also, the Beverly Hills reunion, part two, also very, very good.

[Unknown Male Guest]

I've been saying they never left.

[Nick]

I think Amanda 8. I think Bose kind of looked a little silly. We'll get into it later. This episode, I think Dorit has completely. She's off her rocker.

[Unknown Male Guest]

She's kind of on her mean girl.

[Nick]

According to being you, you deserve a medal for, like, just not sharing your friends, like, personal information.

[Justin]

Personal information. That is very sensitive.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mary]

She's like, well, you. It's. It's part of our jobs. You know, it was like when Andy was like, how did you feel about putting them in that position? Durie was like, yeah. How did you feel about putting us in that position?

[Nick]

Like, ah, so much to get into. Obviously, we'll talk about it later this episode. But before we get to all things reality tv, we do have Jay Ellis, talented actor. He's in a lot of stuff. He's been in Top Gun 2. He's in running Point. He's promoting Running Point on. On Netflix, Insecure. He is with us to talk about Running Point. He is with us. We're very excited to have Jay with us. So lots to get into. I had a. A wonderful weekend. Not even before the weekend. I got to take my daughter on a trip. We. Yeah, just me and Riv.

[Mary]

First time.

[Justin]

How was it your first?

[Nick]

We went to the lake. Well, you know, we have twins coming up.

[Justin]

I've heard.

[Nick]

Yeah. And it's getting to that time. It's getting close. Obviously, we have a crazy life and we're trying to prep for it. Obviously. Now you can't fly as much these days.

[Mary]

I'm very picky, choosy with my flight. You know, it's like, if we have one in a few days, I won't be taking one now.

[Nick]

Yeah, there's. Unfortunately, we are just required to get on some planes now and then, and so if Nelly doesn't have to fly, she's not going to fly. And we just obviously haven't been able to get to the lake lately. So I was like, you know what? Well, Natalie was like, why don't you go to the lake?

[Mary]

I encouraged.

[Nick]

She encouraged. And I was like, you know what? I want to take River. And it was like, I don't know, is this going to work out? Because, like, river and Natalie are just like, tight, tight. They're homies, besties. And river and I are cool.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But it was like, how is she going to be just with you? Just with me. And it was awesome. It was like, I recommend it to any of the dads out there to have any quality time with obviously their kids specifically. But even at. As two years old, it was River. Like, she. It's a weird feeling when you have your kid make you feel like. She made me feel like that. I make her feel safe.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Aw.

[Nick]

And she was just so hype. I've, you know, like, river and I are close and obviously, like, I'm dad, but, like, when mom's not around, I could tell that river was always very aware of where I was. And that's a really. That was a cool feeling. Like, we were. I felt like mom in a cool way.

[Unknown Male Guest]

You are Mom.

[Nick]

It was a lot of fun. And she crushed it.

[Lisa Traeger]

Dad can be Mom.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Yeah.

[Mary]

I'm not going anywhere, guys.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Wait, what did you guys bond over?

[Nick]

What do you mean?

[Unknown Male Guest]

Like at the lake, what did you do?

[Nick]

Well, the boat wasn't. The boat's coming in next week, so we couldn't go boating, but we just, I don't know, played around the yard and we looked for fishes. You know, she's talking more and more. So obviously, like I, I've trained her to now anytime she's around water to say, be careful.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Good.

[Nick]

Because I'm always like, be careful, be careful, be careful. And now and then we would go back out on the dock and she's like, careful, Data. Careful. All right, well, Jay Ellis is here to talk about his hit show Running Point that's streaming now on Netflix. And he is up next. This episode is sponsored to you by Better Help. This mental health awareness month. Therapy just got even more affordable because now better can be covered by your insurance. Well, BetterHelp has been helping people jump into therapy for a long time now. We certainly are very mindful of all the kind of mental obstacles about, you know, jumping into therapy. It feels expensive. It can be expensive, it can be inconvenient, intimidating even. And BetterHelp is helping alleviate all those pain points. It's more affordable than in person therapy. They're working with over 30,000 mental health professionals, so it helps ensure that you're going to find one that you feel comfortable with. And you can switch for free until you do, which is really, really critical when it comes to finding the right therapist. Also convenient, all you need is a device of some kind. And certainly we all have one of those. Whatever your comfort level is, Better Help will help. Make sure that's how your therapy is handled. Even if you just want to do voice to voice and avoid sharing your screen, that is an option as well. Better Help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US Whether it's money problems, stress problems, general anxiety, it doesn't really matter. If you are dealing with some stress in your life, talking about it and getting off your chest is a great way to move things forward. Start prioritizing your mental health as much as you are prioritizing other aspects of your health. Better Help is in network with major health plans like United Healthcare, Cigna, Aetna and more with Coverage Co pays around 23 for eligible members. Fill out the questionnaire and check your coverage [e-mail] v I a l l that's betterhelp h e l p.com v I a l l average co pay is based on eligible members. Actual cost and coverage may vary by plan.

[Mary]

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[Nick]

Jay, welcome to the show.

[Jay Ellis]

Oh thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Nick]

We're excited to have you. I, I met Jay a few years back. We have a mutual friend, Tommy. Shout out. Tommy. Tommy.

[Jay Ellis]

Tommy. Tommy. He was just here last week. You know that he was rude, right?

[Nick]

Yeah, rude. Yeah.

[Jay Ellis]

Very rude. Here for basketball.

[Nick]

Okay. Yeah.

[Mary]

We went to, I, I met Tommy once. Right. We went to dinner.

[Nick]

You've definitely met Tommy.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

Everyone, everyone's met.

[Jay Ellis]

Everyone's met.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

He knows everyone.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, we are excited to have you. I've been following your career for a long time now and it's cool to see it like get bigger and bigger and. Yeah, I'm a fan. And like you've been in such cool stuff like Top Gun too. Yeah, that was so cool.

[Jay Ellis]

It was a lot of fun. Yeah.

[Nick]

Running point you have now but you're in A lot of great stuff. And. Yeah. So it's just exciting to have you on, man.

[Jay Ellis]

Thanks, man. It's exciting to be here. It's been a wild career. It's wild.

[Nick]

How did you get started in all this?

[Jay Ellis]

Oh, man, the quick. I'll give you the long quick. The quick long. However it goes, move to la. I'm for sure gonna be the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. I'm a thousand percent positive. I take a job, I literally thought that someone was just gonna find me on the streets. Like, I just want to start there. Like, literally, I thought that that's how it was gonna happen.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Jay Ellis]

I take a job in Beverly Hills at a gym called Sports Club LA that is directly under, then Endeavor, before Endeavor bought William Morris, the agencies. And my thought was that some agent was gonna come in in the morning, see me, and be like, oh, my God, dude, where you been? I got all these jobs for you. Like, let's go get it. You're here, I'm here.

[Nick]

And now. How long ago is this, by the way?

[Jay Ellis]

This is, oh, 21, 22 years ago. This is a long time ago. And I had the. My job was the gym opened at 5am and my job was to be there at 5am and they used to have locker keys. And you would give people locker keys. There would be days where, like, I hadn't brushed my teeth yet. I for sure didn't shower. I was gonna shower once I got to work and forgot. And so, like, there was no way in the world that any of these agents were at all interested.

[Mary]

We were gonna offer him that leading heart, but his breath was horrible.

[Jay Ellis]

And so that doesn't work out. I end up going, this is another story that I won't go crazy deep into, but I end up going to a party with a friend of mine who I had grown up with, who had moved here and who was acting, was dating a very famous, still very famous woman. And it was a big birthday party for her. It was an all white party. And I decided to wear all white and a camouflage jacket just to stick out.

[Nick]

Ooh. Okay.

[Mary]

You had a plan.

[Jay Ellis]

I'm randomly. Had a few drinks and I'm telling this story about what it was like to live in a model house, because I lived in a model house for a little bit with 16 dudes. And I was explaining that, and this agent walks up and he's like, hey, are you an actor? And I was like, yeah, of course I'm an actor, man. Duh. I'm in la. What do you mean? Yeah, and he was like, I want you to bring your headshot, your resume. Come to my office next week. I want you to meet my team. Would love to just talk to you about what you're doing. I go in the next week. I don't have a headshot. I had modeled. So I had like, basically, like, cobbled together a bunch of, like, pictures. I typed up every job I had had since high school, which included Old Navy athletes. Smoothie king.

[Mary]

They're like, wow.

[Nick]

Pro Navy.

[Jay Ellis]

I was stocking jeans. I was on the headset. So he literally, like, looks at me. I go to his office. He slides all this stuff. I slide all this stuff across the desk. He looks up at me and he goes, you have no idea what you're doing, do you? And I go, no, But I swear, if you give me a chance, I will figure it out. Guy hip pockets me. And I say this to this day, my career. I am here because of this guy. He hip pockets me. I go out on a bunch of auditions. I'm absolutely horrible. I had never taken an audition class. I would literally be looking directly into the lens while I was auditioning. Casting directors would be laughing at me. I thought I was bringing levity to a very dark, dramatic scene. That's not what was happening. They were embarrassed for me. He at some point ends up. He gives me a list of places to take headshots and a list of places to take acting class. Six, seven months later, he calls me. He drops me. He's like, this isn't working out. You're not getting feedback. Whatever, whatever. I'm like, I don't want to be a broke, starving artist driving across LA getting parking tickets, auditioning for people, and they don't get my art. Whatever. I don't care about them. So I go and get a job. I work for a couple of years. I work for, like, the next three or four years.

[Nick]

No shit.

[Jay Ellis]

And I was working for this retail company, and I was the west coast regional manager for this retail company. Retail is very transient. So I worked up very. I worked my way up very, very fast. Very, very fast.

[Nick]

I'm a rising star.

[Mary]

And you had all bad background.

[Jay Ellis]

Crazy, right? Old Navy, okay? So I. I was like. Literally, my territory was Chicago to Texas to Hawaii. And I had 11 stores and, like, $35 million worth of business and like, 120 employees that I was responsible for. And my boss calls me. I was the only person that she had hired. She was based out of New York at the time. I was the only person that she had hired since she'd been there. And she goes, hey, I just got let go. You're probably going to get let go too. They're that it's a European company. And she was like, they're coming for us. And a week later, I got fired. And the entire time, all I could think about is like, I had moved to LA to act, but I was afraid of rejection, I was afraid of the process, I was afraid of the journey. And if there was ever a time for me to, like, go do it and not have the regret of not trying, this was the time to not be a coward, essentially, and to just say, at least I tried. And so I gave myself like a two or three year timeline. And in that two or three years, I went to class, I studied. I would beg my acting coach to just sit in on her other classes, and then I would perform once a week in my class. I worked overnights. I stocked at Target for a little bit because you could get part time if you worked 17 hours. You used to be able to get health insurance. I had a day job that was like, I could pop in and out for auditions. It was crazy. Finally, I start auditioning. I start testing at a really high level, which is where they narrow it down to just a couple people for the job. I book a pilot. It doesn't get picked up, I book another pilot, it doesn't get picked up, I book another pilot, I get recast by the late, great James Van Der Beek, Rest in peace. And I end up booking this show called the Game after like eight or nine auditions. And that was it. From there, I was just kind of off to the races.

[Nick]

That's incredible, man.

[Jay Ellis]

Long story short, that's a great story.

[Mary]

Wow, that is a great story.

[Nick]

That's awesome.

[Mary]

In Running Point, you play Jay Brown.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Is it like a breath of fresh air when you hear that your character's name is the same as your name?

[Jay Ellis]

No. It's so confusing. So confusing. I remember when Ike called me, Ike Barinholtz, one of the creators on the show, called me and he was like, hey. So me and Mindy and Dave were working on this show and we just sold it to Netflix, and it's with Genie Buss. It's about, you know, it's an office comedy about a family that owns a team and there's a coach in there. And I was like, well, it's a basketball show. Sure, of course there is. And he was like, it's Coach J. And I was like, oh, cool. And he was like, we want you to play Coach J. And I was like, okay, yeah, but you don't have to name them. Yeah, but you know, I'm an actor, right?

[Nick]

I pretend to be someone else.

[Jay Ellis]

You can call me. I've been called a lot of things, actually. But it is confusing sometimes. It's fun. It's nice. But it is. I will say it is confusing sometimes speaking. When you're in interviews, speaking, and someone says, well, Jay did. And it's like, well, which Jay are

[Justin]

we talking about ourselves in third person?

[Jay Ellis]

Exactly.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Jay Ellis]

And nobody wants to be the third person guy.

[Justin]

No one wants to be the third person guy. But you're not, because you're just doing your job.

[Jay Ellis]

That's true. I hope people understand that.

[Justin]

I get it.

[Mary]

So what was that pit. That phone call that. I mean, was that it? Was he like, I.

[Jay Ellis]

It was it. I mean, first of all, I absolutely adore all the three of them. Ike and Dave and I had worked together on History of the World Part 2, which they had rebooted and brought back as, like, a limited series. And that was an absolutely amazing experience. And Ike and I had known each other before. We had gone to a couple Tommy dinners before, actually, is where we initially met. And then we started going back and forth on a movie that he wrote, and he was always like, we're gonna work together. We're gonna work together. And so when he called me, it was very flattering. And then talking to Mindy, like, I love Mindy. I think Mindy's heart and sensibility when it comes to comedy is so pure, and there's so few voices out there. There's no voice like hers. But I think there's so few people who understand that comedy should be comedy, and it can have heart, but at the end of the day, we're here to laugh and make people feel good. And. And so I was just. I was in.

[Mary]

And did they tell you up front that you would be Kate Hudson's love interest, or was that something you learned later on?

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah, that was a part of the phone call. That was a. Yeah, that was a part of the phone call. They did tell me that. And I was like, are you sure there's nobody else? And they were like, well, it's gonna be a thing with you and Max. Which Greenfield. Which I was like, well, everybody loves Max, so clearly, Max is gonna win. I love Max. Max is gonna win.

[Mary]

I'm choosing Max.

[Justin]

Honestly, I think you and Max Greenfeld are, like, a really good, like. Like, Sophie's Choice type of situation where

[Lisa Traeger]

you're just like, I don't know.

[Jay Ellis]

It's. It's. It was fun. I mean, so they explained the whole thing about, you know, he's going through this divorce, and she's now into coming into her power and coming into, like, taking ownership of this thing that she's really great at, which is running this team and knowing basketball. Like, she starts to question other things in her life, and so. And Coach Brown, as a guy who's been through all these kind of trials and tribulations on his own when he was basketball, he's kind of the one person she can go to that is kind of, like, grounded while. While going through this process, and that creates a thing. And I was like, oh, that's cool. That's. That's really cool. With Kate Hudson, huh?

[Mary]

Okay, I guess I, you know.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah, she's up. She's up and coming, you know.

[Mary]

Yeah. Her career's about to take off.

[Jay Ellis]

She's. Any minute now, she's gonna be a star. So, yeah, that was. That was it.

[Mary]

Wow, that's wild.

[Nick]

That's wild. And I imagine once you get on set, she's just as chill and normal as, like, is there a little bit of starstruck ever? As you've accelerated your career, you obviously have been working with bigger and bigger names. What is that experience like?

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah, it's funny. I think I'll speak generally, and then I'll go to Kate. I think generally you're always so excited because you love the work that someone has done and maybe the kind of artistry and the pride in which they've, you know, gone out and created the career for themselves that they have. You all, you know how hard it is in this industry, but you're still very, like, I think, excited by that. I. I'm very much a fan of a lot of people still, even when I work with them. And then, you know, people talk, and then that goes away. Sometimes, you know, people. People say something.

[Nick]

Never meet your heroes.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah. You know, and then it's like, you're like, oh, man, you're a person. You're a person. Just be my dream. But there's some people, like, you know, I say this about, like, Tom Cruise, for example, with Top Gun, like, was everything and more that you expected and wanted. Like, it was absolutely such an amazing experience. And I think Kate is that too. I think the amazing thing about Kate is the ease at which she moves through. And that's not to say that, like, she takes her work not seriously or anything like that, but I think this hero the kind of, like, fun and easiness and confidence that just, like, oozes from her, like, really ripples through our set. And so everyone feels that. And she looks everybody in the eye and she talks to everybody, and she's cracking jokes and she laughs at herself and she's singing or dancing, and you're like, oh, this is a human. And, like. But the best kind of human to, like, go to work with.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Justin]

You have Persian, then you have human, human.

[Jay Ellis]

And you're like, man, I love all 360 degrees of you. This is great. And so that's. That's. That's cool. That's what working with her is like.

[Nick]

That's awesome. Did you grow up watching Top Gun as a kid?

[Jay Ellis]

I did. My dad was in the Air Force, so I had. Yeah, we watched all the aviation movies.

[Nick]

I mean, obviously I wasn't in the movie, but I saw it in the theater, and I just. It was so nostalgic watching it. It was like. I've never felt had so much fun with an audience.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick]

Obviously, Tom's big on licking people back in the theaters. It was like. It was a really cool movie to see in the theaters. Like, what? I mean, how was that? Just to be on that set in that movie with, like, one of the most iconic now franchises.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But just that movie was such a big part of so many people's childhood. Like, how kind of meta was that?

[Jay Ellis]

I mean, meta. Beyond meta. I remember the first time we drove onto a base. They put us all on a plane together. We. This is amazing. It was the same week as Burning man, and so we flew from LA to Reno, and we were the only people not going to Burning man on the plane. Like, all the burners were ready. Like, they were getting off the plane ready to start the party.

[Mary]

Scarfs were intact.

[Jay Ellis]

Scarfs, hats, you name it, Everything. Oh. Shirts that, like, were buttoned at the navel. And you're like, why are you even wearing it? It's a deep V, man. Yeah, it's a deep V. And then

[Justin]

they see is Tom Cruise.

[Jay Ellis]

He's not with us. It's the cast at this point. And a bunch of us were together, and we were all meeting each other for the first time in the airport, some of us. And we all fly to Fallon, which is where Top Gun is, and we drive on this base. And I remember driving through security. The security gates to go on the base. And it was a flash to my childhood because I had to do that every single day to go to school.

[Nick]

That's awesome.

[Jay Ellis]

And so it was just such a. Like, oh, yeah, you pull your. Like, as I'm pulling up, I'm like, yeah, you pull your ID out. And everyone else is like, wait, what do we do? We have to. And I'm like, yeah, you just pull your ID out. They're gonna look at your id, and then we're gonna go on the base, and then they're gonna take us wherever we're gonna go. But it was just such a. Like, warm.

[Mary]

You're so ingrained in you.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah, it's just so ingrained in me. But it was also such a warm part of my childhood. It made me feel like, you know, I think familiarity does that in a lot of ways. So that was. That. That part of it was cool. Just driving through the bays, seeing the movie theater, seeing the bowling alley, seeing the grocery stores, like, bringing back all of those memories for myself. Then getting in a jet. Absolutely bonkers. Like, we had trained for it for so long. And no matter how much you trained for it, the experience of sitting in an F18 for the first time and the 100th time is one of the most exhilarating. Your adrenaline is just. I used to. I would stop drinking water at like, 5pm the day before I flew, and I would get on the plane the next morning at like 6 or 7am and my adrenaline would be racing so much that I'd be like, I gotta go to the bathroom. I gotta go to the bathroom. I gotta go to the bathroom. I'm not gonna make the flight. I'm not gonna make the flight.

[Nick]

Did you get.

[Jay Ellis]

They have a bag. You pull a bag out, you do the thing. You tie the bag up, you put it in your pocket on the side of your flight suit. But the whole experience was amazing. And then you're making a movie with Tom Cruise, who's so giving of his time. And, like, you know, I'm looking at Tom and I'm like, you know, to your point, this movie, the original, was such a huge part of so many people's lives. Name a Tom Cruise movie that hasn't been a part.

[Nick]

Sure.

[Jay Ellis]

Right. Like, so then I'm like, oh, Jerry Maguire here. Like, oh, man. A Few Good Men. Oh. Like, you're literally just all these. Interview with a Vampire, like, all these things. Days of Thunder are just ripping through your head. And the cool thing about Tom is, like, he's always like, if we're not working, if we're not on set. Because that should be. When we're on set. Our focus should be making this Movie the best we possibly can. Like, he's like, yeah, ask me questions. You want to know what it was like the first time that I, you know, sat down across from Jack Nicholson and read A Few Good Men? Like, I'll tell you that story. Like, he. It was such a crazy experience.

[Mary]

How does your wife celebrate you when you obviously have these big accomplishments? Are y', all, like, watching them together? Are you going to the theater? What is. How do you feel like, celebrated?

[Jay Ellis]

Well, she goes to all my premieres for sure. Whether she wants to or not. Which, you know, she goes to all my premieres. That's really interesting. I think there's these protein almond butter balls that she makes, and I absolutely love them. Like, they are my, like, snack. They're my lunch, they're my dinner, my pick me up. And I will say that, like, she always finds time to align making these things right around, like a career thing happening. Whether that's like a premiere or whether that's, like, good news that, like, your show got picked up. Whatever it is, there's always a bucket of them just sitting in the refrigerator. And it makes me so happy. Like, I'm such a simple. Like, I don't need champagne, I don't need a dinner. Like, I'm a very simple Ziploc bag

[Mary]

with some protein balls in it.

[Jay Ellis]

Almond protein balls.

[Nick]

How'd y' all meet?

[Jay Ellis]

So happy we met at a bar. Yeah, man. Remember when people used to do that?

[Mary]

How long ago is that?

[Jay Ellis]

Exactly, right? 12 years now. 11 years. 11. 12 years now. A buddy of mine was in town from the Bay Area and another friend, a really good friend of mine, who was also a good friend with this guy from the Bay. Anyway, we all go to dinner together. We're at a place, my buddy sees her walk in and is like, oh, there's my friend Nina. I'm gonna go talk to her. And I was like, yo, who is that? And I made the joke that I'm gonna marry her, but it was purely a joke because he told me there was no way I had a shot. And I was like, bro, I'm gonna marry her. And years later, it actually happened.

[Nick]

That's awesome.

[Mary]

Was he at your wedding?

[Jay Ellis]

He was our officiant.

[Lisa Traeger]

Wow.

[Jay Ellis]

Very, very nervous. But he did a good job.

[Mary]

And you have two kids, right?

[Jay Ellis]

Two kids.

[Mary]

How old are they?

[Jay Ellis]

Six and almost two.

[Nick]

Almost him?

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Boy, girls.

[Jay Ellis]

A six year old girl and a two year old or 21 month old boy. Yeah, it's fun.

[Nick]

What's. What's one bit of dating advice you're gonna give your daughter. I know you're a few years away.

[Jay Ellis]

One bit. Yeah. You guys aren't there yet, but there's this thing.

[Nick]

I think about it really.

[Jay Ellis]

There's this thing happening really early. My daughter's in kindergarten and she came back and she's like, so I'm gonna marry. I'm not gonna say the boy's name. And I was like, I'm sorry, you're gonna do what?

[Justin]

Excuse you.

[Jay Ellis]

And she was like, well, me and another friend decided that we're gonna marry him.

[Mary]

Them.

[Jay Ellis]

And I'm like, the three of y' all decided that? All three of you guys are in on this.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, my God.

[Jay Ellis]

I just want to make sure you understand.

[Justin]

Polyamory.

[Nick]

I don't know where's crushing kindergarten. I remember her name still.

[Jay Ellis]

Do you?

[Mary]

Yeah, I definitely.

[Nick]

She moved in the first grade.

[Jay Ellis]

It broke your heart. Just.

[Nick]

We were crushed. Yeah. All the boys were upset. We all liked her.

[Jay Ellis]

All right, so. So I think a thing happened where they were talking about boundaries and the boundary conversation went to, well, who can you do that with? Well, you can do it with your girlfriend or your husband or your wife or your partner. And I think that's when all the kids were like, well, I love you.

[Mary]

You're my husband.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah. I think that's how it started.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Jay Ellis]

I don't know what the dating advice would be. I don't know. I would say. I. I mean, I do have a thing about, like, if he looks in the mirror as much as you.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Mary]

That's good.

[Nick]

That's good, that's good, that's good.

[Mary]

We, obviously. We have a two year old girl, and then I'm pregnant with two more girls, so we don't know what it's like to have a boy. What has been, like, the biggest difference between girl and boy?

[Jay Ellis]

Boys are bonkers.

[Mary]

Bonkers.

[Jay Ellis]

Absolutely crazy. And I love my son, but he's so dumb. Like, he's so basic. Like, he loves. Literally, on Thursdays, we stand on our street and just watch garbage trucks.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Jay Ellis]

It makes him so happy. That makes him so happy. My daughter, at 2 years old, could literally lay on the floor and just color.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Jay Ellis]

And, like, she wasn't coloring in the lines. She wasn't, you know. Are you there?

[Nick]

Yes. I mean, I'm so impressed with our daughter. And then we'll go to the playground and then we'll meet, like, little boys her age. And I'm like, what's wrong with you?

[Jay Ellis]

What is wrong with him? I used to say the same Thing, and I love him so much, but

[Nick]

it's so amazing, and it's, like, advanced. It's such a different pace.

[Jay Ellis]

It's such a different pace. It's so crazy, and it's just so wild. But he's very, very basic. Like, he wants his food, he wants his trucks, he wants his bottle, he wants his mom. That's it. Like, he's very, very, very basic. Anything else you try to throw at him, he does not care about. He does not want. He does not want to be entertained with anything else. My daughter, you could, like, put a picture book in front of her, and she would flip it. Like, she thought, you know, like, she was reading, she was checking out the pictures. She would color. She would, like, you know, once she got to talking and, like, once we did put her in school, she would come home and she would set her dolls up, and she would talk to her dolls like she was teaching them.

[Justin]

That's so cute.

[Jay Ellis]

He's so far from all of those things. He's so, so far. And he's just destructive. Like, he jumps off the couch, he tries to run down the stairs, and he can't even walk down the stairs. He's. He will try. Like, he's just. He'll try to jump out of your arms if you're carrying it. He's just wildly destructive.

[Mary]

And, like, how did you prepare for that? Obviously, you had this just.

[Jay Ellis]

You know what's funny? We put Gates up. We did not put Gates up with my daughter. Yeah, seriously.

[Mary]

We did not put up those leashes that they use for the kids. Yeah, we're using this.

[Jay Ellis]

We had to move his bed. We had to move his. He's very tall. Both my kids are very, very tall. But he kept trying to crawl out of, like, jump out of his crib. And. And so we lowered it. And then he was. I will say he was smart enough to figure this out. He had stacked, like, three lovies and a pillow and was standing on them, trying to climb over. Like, he was smart enough to figure that out. So then we had to just lower the mattress all the way to the floor. So, like, the crib is still there, but, like, the mattress is now on the floor. And, like, that's how we have to keep him contained. Just stuff like that, that we didn't think about. Like, my stuff, my daughter didn't do.

[Mary]

It's wild.

[Nick]

If your kids decide they want to have a career in entertainment.

[Jay Ellis]

No.

[Nick]

No.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Jay Ellis]

No way.

[Nick]

What will be. Why? Why?

[Jay Ellis]

Okay, here's the thing. Let me back up as kids or as adults?

[Nick]

As adults.

[Jay Ellis]

As adults.

[Nick]

You know, they're like 17, 18, they're like, dad, mom, I think I want to do what you guys did.

[Jay Ellis]

I would ask them to still go live a life, okay. And go like explore and find themselves a little bit. Whether that's on a college campus, whether that's traveling, whether that's just having a bunch of jobs and figuring it out. Like, I would still ask to explore that part of their life because I think you need that for the career. There are some people who I think are absolutely brilliant talents and were able to study their way all the way through where they're at today. And I think some people have to just go live a life and understand what sorrow feels like and pain feels like. I would probably also tell them that I have no idea what success looks like in their time because it's so wildly different from when I started. I think about people ask me now and I'm like, oh man, I don't know how to give you that answer. Because when I started, you used to actually like walk in a room and see a casting director. When I started used to walk into a room, there would be a sign in sheet, you'd sign your name in, someone would call you in, you'd give them your headshot, you'd do the scene, and then you would leave. Well, what that allowed for was like you to say, oh, I got an audition at 2 o' clock for Mindy's new show. And I'd be like, oh, cool, where at? And you would say, oh, it's with ex casting director. And I'd be like, oh, yeah, over off of La Brea, right? And you'd be like, yeah. And I'd be like, okay, cool. And at 2:30, just after you left, hopefully I would show up and I could fill out the form and give them my head sheet and my headshot. And I could pick up the sides in the room and it would be a cold read, but I could pick up the sides in the room and I could do it. That doesn't exist now. Once digital, once computer came along, then they were just checking people in and they knew exactly who they had told agents and reps that they wanted for auditions. That's even gone now because you don't go in the room anymore. Now you do it all via self tape or zoom. So it's just changed so much that I actually don't even know how to tell people to start acting today other than to get in a class and like do your craft I don't know how you start in the business anymore.

[Nick]

No, it's tough. And now it's just like they are, like, the influencer space has really taken off where, like, so much is, like, your social media presence and things like that. Do you feel that in this business at your level now, or is. Is that just for people, like, coming in?

[Jay Ellis]

I think it's, you know, it's interesting. I think whether it's we did it to ourselves or whether the industry made us feel that way, I do think that a lot of people felt like they had to have a social media presence. But there's plenty of people who don't and who have had very successful careers. I don't know that that will be the way going forward. I feel like with YouTube and all these vertical, you know, all this content that you can do on your phone now, I feel like that changes things quite a bit where like. Like, you kind of have to be making stuff and putting stuff out there now. It used to be I could know. I would know, for example, that pilot season was coming around, and the studios were gonna make 25, 30 pilots. And so I was gonna get quite a few auditions in that I was probably gonna get 12 auditions out of 30 pilots getting made. Now studios, networks don't even make 12 pilots anymore.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Wow.

[Jay Ellis]

So, like, the numbers have just gotten so much smaller. Like, you have to have a presence in some way that makes people go, like, oh, what about that person?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Jay Ellis]

And I. I don't. Again, I don't know if that's, like, something that we put on ourselves or if it's something that, like, the industry

[Nick]

is like, how did it. Yeah, it almost happened.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Accidentally.

[Justin]

That is. I think that's one of the reasons that, like, when I've watched Running Point, it just feels so nice. Cause it just feels like. It just feels like a show that. I mean, Mindy Kaling come from the Office, like, in many project and stuff. It's just like, there's still that vestige of TV and just that kind of simplicity of it, and that's.

[Jay Ellis]

I think it all makes us feel good too. I think we miss it. I think it's what we know. This is the other question I think about all the time. And I'm so interested to hear what you guys think about this. I. I always have this thing where I'm like, oh, man, we're so doomed. AI is gonna take over and, like, TV shows are gonna be fully made of AI And a friend of mine who I always have this conversation With. He says, no. And I go, well, I don't let my daughter watch a lot of. We don't let my daughter watch a lot of YouTube. When we do, we're usually in the room and it's on our tv, so we all can see it. But I do realize how many, like, AI generated things come up on YouTube and they don't know the difference between. And so the indoctrination point is so much earlier now, as opposed to us being introduced after our 30, 40 years of life and Top Gun and all the. And Mindy Project and all these things. And you're like, no, I know what it's like when humans make things. I know what that's like. But, like, how do kids know that?

[Nick]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I worry about the space you're in and just, like, from, like, you know, think about Top Gun. Like, you know, like, just the special effects and, like, how it's gonna be so much more cheap, cheaper for AI to do shit. But it's just like, what, like in, like, in this space, like podcasting or even reality tv. I feel like. I feel less worried about that because it's almost like as AI becomes bigger and bigger, there'll be. It'll. There'll be a scarcity of authenticity.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

And it's like, you can't have a reality TV show on. Of AI. You could, but it's not reality tv. That's just a scripted show, you know, or like. Or, you know, you're going to have AI podcasts, but it will, like, like, people still have a thirst for humans sharing their perspective. But, like, from.

[Mary]

I remember the, like, Matthew McConaughey talking

[Nick]

about, like, owning your own voice. And, like, owning your own voice.

[Mary]

Has that, like, made you think about all that kind of stuff?

[Jay Ellis]

Completely wild in ways that, like, again, when you started, you did used to just be. Show up and be an actor. You could show up and just do a thing. And there are some people, again, who are able to do that, that I've been fortunate to actually do that. I've gotten curious about a lot of other things, and I've wanted to learn producing or directing. I've wanted to experience that. I wanted to write. I wanted to write a book. Like, I wanted to do all of those things partially because I wanted to get my own voice out there and understand my own voice, partially because there were stories that I wanted to tell. And some of it was just like, I believe as a part of a creative community, you can't just take, you have to give some back. And so I don't believe that every story is meant to be like me on camera. I think there's other ways I can support a story and telling a story and speaking. So it has made me think about other ways to still be in this industry and to support other people in this industry. I run a short film program where we try to make five short films a year for first time filmmakers. And again, I get nothing out of that. I gotta go beg somebody to fund this short film program and then I get to help five people make shorts that hopefully is their calling card to a director's program or directing in television or maybe their first feature. And like, I think in those ways it's made me think about it. It's like, what else am I doing and how else am I giving back to this, this amazing industry and community that's given me so much.

[Nick]

My only hope for that is this, like, I think I'm still hopeful. There's like a renaissance of like humans wanting to go out and touch grass and get out there and, and, and like we are, we are a species that needs human connection. And I just, I hope that. Yeah. That we don't lose that and yeah. And all that.

[Jay Ellis]

I agree.

[Nick]

I do. Like, I love the advice you, you said about your kids, like going out, like your story about how you became an actor. There's an amazing story. I don't think you hear as much stuff like that in terms of like you went back, you got that job, you went and got a real job, you left and then, and that had served you to. I think it's such great advice. And if your kids decide to get in entertainment, I love that you want them to go out and experience.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Because like this, this Hollywood is, it's

[Jay Ellis]

a weird, it's weird.

[Nick]

It's weird.

[Jay Ellis]

It's also really hard and tough. And if you're young, navigating it, if you're young, I think if you go out and you have a couple failures and you get back up, whether that be through job, whether that be through school, whether that be through sports, I think when you decide to come into a career like this, you go, okay, cool, like I'll just get back up and go do it again. I think if you don't have that experience every time you get told no or you get sidetracked, derailed in some way, it's the end of the world for you. Like you don't know how to process or get yourself back up or your self Esteem takes a shot.

[Nick]

Yeah, but that's the thing. You seem like you had a sense of self, as when you went back into it, and you kind of knew.

[Jay Ellis]

I am so grateful because my whole thing was like, oh, every time I heard no, I was just like, I'm just getting closer to my yes.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Jay Ellis]

Like, cool. I'm just getting closer. I don't want to work with you anymore anyway. I'm just getting closer to my yes. And I have to get through, and I understand that. I have to get through so many at bats before I can hit a home run. And if I can get through enough of those, then I'll connect with the ball sooner or later and get there. And I think that going through life. I didn't start acting until I was 28 years old, so I think going through life, really. And I didn't get my first job until I was 30. When I booked the game, I was just over 30. I think I was like, 30 in, like. Like four or five months. And so I think I had been shook enough to my core and been like, all right, well, I gotta figure out how to pay rent this month. And it allowed me to go into an audition room and be like, hey, man, you're either gonna like this or you're not gonna like this. I did my work. I'm super excited about it. I hope you like it. If you don't, that's okay too. You're gonna be a fan, and I'll see you on the next one.

[Nick]

I love stories like that. I love hearing those backstories of, like, the work you put into, like, being where you are today. Cause you never hear that stuff, you know? Know, in that perspective.

[Jay Ellis]

It's easy to just do the glitzy, glammy stuff.

[Nick]

It's. It's. It's. It's great to hear. I. I heard that Top Gun 3 is in production or they're. They're doing the movie. Is that something that maybe you might be a part of? Are you allowed to answer? I don't know.

[Jay Ellis]

There is a script. They're working on it. You know, I think the thing that we always kind of come back to and is the experience of making the second one and how long that that took. And when you hear Tom talk about it, he was like, it had to be right in so many ways. Like, we had to put actors in jets, and the story had to be right, and we had to have the right access. And, you know, editing needed to be at a certain place. And I think that that is the same with what will be Top Gun 3, I think, you know, or the third installment of Top Gun, rather, I think, you know, Tom and Jerry Bruckheimer and Joe Kaczynski and McHugh. Those guys are gonna make sure that it is everything it needs to be and more before they're willing to try to push a studio into making this movie. But I do think it'll get made.

[Mary]

When you got the script for All Her Fault, yeah, being a dad was that hard to.

[Jay Ellis]

Three minutes, three pages. Could you imagine on the third page? This woman is crying because she can't find her kid. And my kid is out of place. My kid is just getting out of school. I read this at probably like 3:30 on like a Tuesday. My kid had just got out of school.

[Lisa Traeger]

You're like.

[Jay Ellis]

And I'm like, where is she going? Where is she going right now? Is she coming home or she staying there? Is she going on a plate?

[Nick]

I couldn't watch it with her because it was like. It was too triggering. I couldn't.

[Jay Ellis]

It's very triggering. But I think that's the thing that got me so quickly is like. And I don't. I imagine if I didn't have kids, I would have felt the same way. I grew up with a bunch of cousins who had stayed with me, lived with me at some point. So I think I probably would have felt the same way even if I didn't have kids. But I do think that, like, that fear for those of us who either are parents or caretakers for children, that fear of not knowing where. I was thinking about this yesterday. My daughter had a competition in Burbank on Sunday, Saturday. And my parents live here in Los Angeles. They live in Inglewood. And one of my friends was like, no kids. Was like, why don't you just put her in a Waymo? And I was like, what a kid.

[Justin]

Alone, in a way. That's how home alone. That's basically like how home alone starts.

[Jay Ellis]

But in Los Angeles.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Jay Ellis]

And not in the early 1990s. You know what I mean?

[Justin]

That's crazy.

[Jay Ellis]

And I just thought to myself, like, she has no phone. She doesn't know my phone number. She knows her. She knows her home address. But who knows if she's even willing to talk to someone, to tell them because she's afraid of strangers. You know what I mean? She knows not to talk to people she doesn't know. And I was just like, that's so crazy. What if the Waymo locks? I just started thinking about all these things that's what my feeling was when I read All Her Fault. Like, there was literally a fire in my body where I was like, oh, my God, this woman has to find her kid. Who did this? How did this happen? Did someone take her kid? Is this truly just an accident? And then you go on and you read the rest of the scripts and you start pointing at people and thinking who it is. Pointing at me at some point. And that was an easy call. That was a lot of fun. It was also fun to, like, there's something really fun about watching messy rich people.

[Mary]

There is. Yeah.

[Nick]

Are you watching Friends and Neighbors?

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah, yeah, of course I am. Hambone all day. John is a God to me. Like, there is something really fun about watching really messy rich people. People.

[Nick]

I. Well, that. And we were. We just watched Beef, the new season, and that's kind of like. Well, that has rich people in it, but it's like class warfare, too. But I kind of like why we watch reality tv, but I love those scripted shows that really get into just, like, how hard adult life is, no matter whether you're rich or poor.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah.

[Nick]

That, like, you have to face adversity. You have to face, like, life. You're just your inner demons. Whatever it is, is that, like, the reality of life is ugly and messy. And I love the realism of how those shows kind of, like, attack those topics. It really is. It makes it really honestly for us, like, we'll watch it. It really just makes you appreciate, you know, just putting in the work in your relationships and things like that. Because, like, all those shows, like, talk about how, like, just how tough, like, life can be and just the hardships of reality, it's always, like. Like, really puts things in perspective, which is why I really like those shows. It's just.

[Jay Ellis]

It's always nice to just have the wool kind of pulled over and you're like, oh, they got problems, too.

[Nick]

Yeah, we're good.

[Mary]

Yeah. And they're worst of mine.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel good today.

[Nick]

I didn't call you that.

[Jay Ellis]

You know, it's not. It is night. It is. It is your. To your point. It's humanity. Like, it's. It's. We're all going through. We're all on this rock, going through this thing together, whether, you know, and we all have different versions of it, obviously, in different walks and. And paths, but we are all going through a lot of the same. At the core, we're going through a lot of the same things.

[Nick]

Oh, final question. What's harder, comedy or drama for you?

[Jay Ellis]

Drama. Drama. Yeah. Now Most people will say comedy. Comedy is so much about timing. Sometimes it's about situation. Having to repeat it over and over again. And making a joke or a situation feel fresh at times can be very difficult, especially as you're taking direction or if you were distracted or the day goes on or if it gets split up with lunch. But drama, to me, and I think that's, like, something me and my therapist probably should talk about. I think it's me, like, ultimately just wanting to, like, stay on the light side of life and be like, hey, I'm happy. All is good. Nah, don't worry about it. And I think drama makes you dig into some stuff. I think good comedy can do that too, because I do think, like, there is oftentimes you are covering something and that makes you react in a certain way. But I think there's something about drama where sometimes you have to just sit in a thing and ultimately be able

[Nick]

to get it out. I mean, I have limited experience in acting. I've done it. But even in reality tv, in my limited experience, the only way I was able to do it, and obviously I'm not talented in that space, but, yeah, I had to go there mentally, and that's very difficult to do.

[Jay Ellis]

And that's not even being method.

[Nick]

Yeah, no, that's not even being.

[Jay Ellis]

Could you imagine if you were method? Yeah.

[Nick]

And I just studying acting a little bit made me have so much appreciation for people like you who do it for a living. It's just because it's not just like, people just showing up and reading a script. It's really. You have to. To be real. You have to get in that space. And I have so much. Yeah, because it's. It's. It can get heavy.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah, I'm sure it's. It's sometimes I. It's. The drive home is like, I'm always grateful for the drive home because it's just decompression time. Like, it's time to, like, whatever the podcast is, whatever silence, music, whatever it is. Like, it's nice to just be able to, like, sit in that and come down from. There's another thing that I think most actors would tell you is that, like they say, when you make a movie, there's the movie you read, the movie you shot and the movie that was edited. And for an actor, there's the scene that you read, the scene that you shot, and the scene that you critique while you drive home and you re. Edit in your head how you should have done it the entire time.

[Nick]

These pretzels are making me thirsty.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Exactly.

[Jay Ellis]

Exactly. That's so neat. Yeah.

[Nick]

My gosh, that's so true.

[Mary]

Running point, season two out on Netflix now. So good. So amazing. You're great.

[Jay Ellis]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Yeah, thanks for stopping by, man. And I'm excited to see, I mean, you've done so many amazing things, but I'm really excited to see what's in store because it's, it's been cool to, to follow your career and watch it. Thank you. Also, how's working with Chet Hanks?

[Jay Ellis]

Oh, Chet's great, I will say. I, I, I, I was like, I don't know, I think I was talking to Ike. I don't know, man.

[Justin]

White boy Summer.

[Jay Ellis]

I don't want it to get weird. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't want it. And then you meet Chet, and Chet is. Chet is Chet. Like, Chet is who he is. Like, he's actually not fronting. Like, you know, I think the amazing thing about Chet is, like, he's very aware of, like, where he sits in the world and, like, you know, the life that he's lived and he's able to reflect on it and he's grateful for everything that he has. And he is actually a funny ass dude. And he's also got very strong points of view on things, you know what I mean? But he's like, at his heart, like, he is truly just a good dude. And I think, I think the minute you're around him, you, you immediately understand that and feel that, which is really nice.

[Nick]

That's awesome. Well, running point is out. Check it out. It's on Netflix. It's a fun, easy watch. You will really enjoy it. It's bingeable. We love our late night going to bed TV shows, and it's perfect for that. Thanks for stopping by, Jay. It's great. Up next, Lisa Traeger talks all things summer house and Bravo reality tv. So don't go anywhere. Here's something a lot of homeowners don't realize until it's too late. Home insurance doesn't cover everything. Insurance helps you with things like fires or floods. But what about everyday home system and appliance breakdowns from normal wear and tear? That's where a home warranty from American Home Shield comes in. In fact, homeowners were 25 times more likely to use a home warranty than home insurance. And once you own a home, that makes sense because breakdowns are inevitable. American Home Shield offers home warranty plans that cover parts of home systems like H Vac, plumbing and electrical plus kitchen and laundry appliances. And if covered item can't be repaired, they'll replace it. They even offer video chat as a benefit to select plans where you can connect with a live repair expert to help assess and even fix an issue over the phone. Listeners can get 20% off select plans today. Just visit ahs.com via files to sign up. See ahs.com contracts for coverage details including service fees, limitations and exclusions. Hey, did you know that 91% of dog parents say that their pup is an important member of their family? Well, that's not surprising because we all love our pups. 40% would even save their dog over a human stranger. Well, safe to say we are obsessed with our dog. And if you are obsessed with your dog as much as we are obsessed with ours, then back it up by making sure you're feeding them high quality ingredients. And you can do that with Ollie. If anyone gets being dog obsessed, it's Ollie. They are relentless about delivering the best food and experience for you and your dog. And they give you a way to check in on their health over and over and over again. Which is super, super great. Peace of mind. Ollie's fresh recipes are developed by real chefs and backed by vet nutritionists. They're obsessed with making the best meals with the highest quality ingredients, end to end experience. From the moment you start your subscription, everything is tailored, the meals are perfectly portioned and you get a puptainer and scoop for easy storing and serving. With Ollie, you don't just get food through their app, you can actually check in on your dog's health with real vets just by uploading a picture. Their team can check in on your dog's weight, digestion, teeth and coat because they're obsessed with making sure your pup is as healthy as you can be. Anyways, our dogs are obsessed with Ollie. Their food. There there's so many flavors. The beef one that I used to say it was their favorite but honestly, they like them all. We have the peace of mind that they're getting great food and it's incredibly convenient. They have so many great flavors. Your dog will love all of them. Get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to ollie.com v I a l l tell them about your dog. Use our code V I A L l to get 70% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus they offer an obsession guarantee. If you are not completely obsessed or your dog, you'll get your money back. That's O l l I e.com v I l l and enter code V, I, A L L for 70% off your first box. Box.

[Lisa Traeger]

I am so happy to be here. Yeah.

[Mary]

Last time we were. We were virtual, right? We weren't here.

[Nick]

I always forget.

[Lisa Traeger]

Wait. Those are cute little shoes, but you guys are early birds.

[Mary]

Well, you know, an early bird gets a worm.

[Lisa Traeger]

There's. There's more to that saying.

[Mary]

Is there?

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, it's like. But the afternoon guy gets the knit. There's like, more to it.

[Mary]

Everyone's got to make it about them.

[Lisa Traeger]

You know what I'm saying?

[Nick]

They're like, what? But I sleep in. I do something.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, because morning people, it's like, like, it's so pretend. It's like annoying. It's not better just because I sleep till 11. I don't know, I go to bed.

[Mary]

What time do you go to bed?

[Lisa Traeger]

Okay, so unfortunately I did stay out till like 4:30 on Saturday night. So last night I went to bed by 11.

[Mary]

By 11.

[Lisa Traeger]

By 11.

[Justin]

Nice.

[Nick]

4:30. What are we doing till 4:30 in the morning?

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, I was at the Comedy Store, but then I was staying at the Sunset Marquee, which is so fun. And so we went for one drink there. And then my friend wanted to order room service, so we ordered room service and hung out. Out. Then he was going to sleep over. But I. I want the lights on. I want to read and I want music on. And so my friend left.

[Mary]

That's so valid.

[Justin]

Sounds like an incredible.

[Lisa Traeger]

But also, I need it freezing. And he's always like getting up and making it warm behind my back. But it's like my room. And he's like, well, how much longer are the lights going to be on? I go as long as I want, but the hotel doesn't have bedside lamps.

[Justin]

Interesting.

[Lisa Traeger]

Only overhead lighting.

[Justin]

E. That's gross. Criminal. I did look up early bird, worm, extension of phrase.

[Lisa Traeger]

Okay, And.

[Justin]

And. But the second mouse gets the cheese.

[Mary]

Early bird gets the worm, but the

[Justin]

second mouse gets the cheese.

[Nick]

When did a mouse enter the equation?

[Justin]

You know what I can't bear to understand?

[Nick]

Well.

[Lisa Traeger]

Cause there's another one. I saw a post about this. Cause you know, it's Oscar Wilde, where it's like.

[Nick]

It's an Oscar Wilde quote.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, not that. But there's other ones that aren't finished. Where people take. Where it's like, flattery is the sincerest form of compliment.

[Justin]

It's the one where you copy.

[Lisa Traeger]

Imitation is the.

[Nick]

Imitation is the highest form of flavor.

[Lisa Traeger]

But there's more to it. For someone that's mediocre, who can't do his own. Like, there's more to it.

[Justin]

Oscar Wild popped off later in the.

[Unknown Male Guest]

But the late bird doesn't even get the late worm.

[Lisa Traeger]

What?

[Unknown Male Guest]

That's one. But the late worm doesn't get eaten.

[Justin]

Oh, a bunch of people just finish phrases.

[Mary]

Yeah. Wait, so this isn't like a.

[Nick]

This sounds like an episode of Reality TV Reunion where everyone's just kind of projecting their own trauma. Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, I do have news. I was. I went to SoulCycle in New York, and then I. I was like, oh, I'll sit in a patio. It's a lovely night. I'll just have some lunch or dinner and have a beer. And the Southern hospitality people walked by. So it was Mia, Brad, tj, Brad's girlfriend, and Molly.

[Justin]

Right?

[Unknown Male Guest]

All the best people.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yes. They were all going out, but I looked. I was like, post workout class. But they were so nice, and I took photos of them, and Mia is, like, so little.

[Mary]

So you said hi.

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, the people behind me recognized. And then I turned around and went, can I please join this? And then they said, yes. And then the younger people were telling them bars and hip places to go to. Like, I don't think me and them have the same types of bars. And I talked to Molly about Soul Cycle, the reunion. We talked about Wes Wilson. Because I did watch what Happens live with Wes Wilson.

[Nick]

Oh, my God.

[Lisa Traeger]

He was my guy. And so. And she was like. I was like, can you believe it? She goes, yeah, I believe it.

[Unknown Male Guest]

I love Molly.

[Lisa Traeger]

I've known him for. Yeah, they're just. They were all so beautiful and hot.

[Nick]

It was awesome.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Wait, this is their first year getting an actual reunion set?

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Unknown Male Guest]

So that's big for them.

[Mary]

Watch what Happens live set.

[Justin]

Yeah, well, didn't. Mia's the one that west texted? Allegedly.

[Unknown Male Guest]

They went on a digital date, like, for one of those web series.

[Justin]

No, but she said that west had texted her, like, right after their eating.

[Nick]

But what was in the text? Like, I mean, could he. Was he, like, what was that bar you recommended?

[Mary]

She implied something like, sorry, that, like, you're getting roped in and, like, involved in this.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Mary]

It was like, one of those type of things.

[Nick]

Yeah, but the Internet took it as, oh, why is he communicating to another woman?

[Mary]

Well, it's like, he could apologize to me, but he couldn't apologize to Sierra.

[Unknown Male Guest]

That part.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Yikesies.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Did they spill an ET Southern hospitality.

[Lisa Traeger]

She just said. She was like, I've known him before this. We ran in the same circles, and I'm not surprised about any of this is all she said. And then when I told her I went to a Harry Styles Taylor Swift soul cycle, she went, that's not for me, but I'm glad that works for you. So that was fun.

[Mary]

I wonder what her style of soul cycle would be.

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know. I was just humiliated.

[Justin]

She likes post punk soul cycle in

[Unknown Male Guest]

general is not for me.

[Nick]

So where were you?

[Lisa Traeger]

Liza, when the summer house news broke?

[Justin]

Broke like Michael Jackson level.

[Lisa Traeger]

I was. I feel like I went to. I was at Solidcore. My God, you were the most. I don't know if it was when it happened, but I was walking post. I don't know if this was that day or the next day. I remember the Edie Parker day the most. So when she had the Edie Parker ad and it was taken down. Cause I was walking with my friend after this class and a girl was sitting alone on a patio looking at Amanda News on her phone. And I looked at her and I go, can you even, even fucking believe it? And she doesn't. She went, what? And I went, sorry, I looked at your phone. And then we ended up talking for like 15 minutes. It was awesome.

[Mary]

She's like, I'm just scrolling. I don't know what any of this is.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, no. And she went off and we were going off and then the group chats. Like, I think it was like, that's that weekend. I don't. Yeah, it was.

[Mary]

It really all was like that weekend was jam packed.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. Cause wasn't it like they went on a couple's. Because the cast started posting first.

[Justin]

Yeah. They were being so weird and no one really knew what was happening.

[Mary]

They're being like memes. And we were like, oh, this is April Fools.

[Lisa Traeger]

It just. You know what I'm most mad at? Beside. I mean, obviously Sarah. I care about her so much. But like Amanda took our opportunity to dunk on Kyle away.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

That's what I'm most mad at. It was because in my head I go, she's gonna be free, hot, single in the city. Like, I can't wait. She's gonna be smoking weed with her dogs. Like, I was like so, so excited for her to be hot with her friends in the city. And then Kyle, you boo. And now it's. It's like now he's like a media darling. I know he's making out with Megan King Edmonds. People are like, we love it.

[Nick]

We were talking about that on plus and I, we. We were talking about it over the weekend. And I think that's the most Crazy thing because you have the. Did you hear the like the leaked audio stuff?

[Lisa Traeger]

I refused because Andy was mad and I try to respect him.

[Unknown Male Guest]

So same.

[Lisa Traeger]

So I didn't.

[Justin]

I listen.

[Lisa Traeger]

I'm trying to get back on. Watch what happens.

[Mary]

Got it.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, he was.

[Mary]

Andy did do a shout out of like thank you to all the content creators who did not talk about it or post it.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Mary]

Or yeah.

[Nick]

I mean like we, we didn't, we didn't air it.

[Lisa Traeger]

I read everything I could about it. Right, Right.

[Mary]

But we would never listen.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. I'm in some group chats that were discussing it.

[Justin]

I may have seen a Reddit thread of all of the transcripts.

[Nick]

And just to remind whatever people listen to it, it is like, well, first of all, we don't know if it'll make the cut, but it's like 1% of everything they film. So there's certainly so much more to the reunion. But from a little bit we did see. What's so fascinating is that Amanda seems to be like doubling down and like trying to justify her choices, which honestly is giving very Tom Sandoval in Scandival. Because if you go back and remember it was this like everyone was like, bro, just say you're sorry, say it was fucked up.

[Lisa Traeger]

She's not. I think we just assumed she was a good person because she was quiet and in the background or kind of. And maybe she just sucks and.

[Nick]

And saying you can't help who you like is the most crazy thing to say. And then what's. What's so.

[Lisa Traeger]

And he doesn't like you back.

[Mary]

He doesn't. And that's. And like, honestly, if that audio has proven anything to me, it is that, I mean the fact that he, and even Kyle's statement after being like guys, he actually like did not stand up for her once.

[Nick]

Cuz Wes is very much, you know, I just, just like, I just, I

[Mary]

feel it's just wild that that is coming what two days after he goes on his podcast and he's like direct the hate at me, like lighten up on her.

[Lisa Traeger]

And then I also loved the post where it's like when all this broke out that Sierra put the like Girl Scout troop filled with like girl, you know, people that don't have homes and stuff like that. And then he was just acting like nothing. And I just. That was very telling for me because I liked meeting West. We had fun. We parted. So nice to my friends. He was charming, so charming.

[Nick]

But he's the. He is, as I've tried to explain, he is the new type of man in 2026. The fake feminist, the emotionally literate, therapy trained. Very kind of. He can center his feelings, which to the person who cares about you, feels safe. It feels disarming. It feels like vulnerability, like, you know, and that he kept. He kept his access to Sierra closed.

[Lisa Traeger]

That's what I'm thinking while you're talking is them at the super bowl, them probably hooking up and him. I just.

[Nick]

Just, you know, it's. You know, it's. It's always. It's keeping it close enough so you can still flirt and you can still do the things without. Well, well, who do you think is

[Mary]

more at fault, Amanda or West? If you had to put, like, more of a blame on someone.

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know the blame. I. I don't know Amanda, because the. What sickens me about the west was the thing of, like, when Amanda and Kyle, like, were touching or kissing, and then he started touching Sierra. Like, with Kyle, I think he sucks. I'm like, I'm okay with him getting cheated on or disres. Like, I don't care. But, like, touching Sierra to make Amanda jealous when you know she likes you, like, that really upsets me.

[Mary]

And.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. And he knows how much she does want him. And she's crying, being like, I don't even want to like you, but I do. And I. That really. That bothers me.

[Mary]

I only ask because I feel like. I feel like west was, like, sober in this whole thing. Right. Like, we have Amanda who. Who's. Who's been in this long, horrible, toxic relationship. They're finally, like, splitting up, getting a divorce. She's kind of, like, drunk on this whole, like, she never really had a guy nice to her. She's going through this divorce. He is this, like, sober brain who, like, is not.

[Nick]

Who has a roster.

[Mary]

Literally has a roster.

[Justin]

We're obviously meaning drunk and sober. Emotionally correct.

[Mary]

Not like. Yes, they were probably both drunk. I'm sure they were. Yeah.

[Nick]

Seemingly. He had a clear head.

[Justin]

You can.

[Nick]

You can at least understand Amanda's, like, not maybe seeing her relationship choices in a clear way. Because most people who come out of relationships are a little kind of emotionally.

[Lisa Traeger]

I. I do hate the people that are like this. Just because Amanda's bad does not make Kyle good. Right. Correct. You know, like, we have to stop, like, the good. It's like he still treated her awful. Awful, you know, awful.

[Mary]

And that does not go away.

[Nick]

Yeah, but what.

[Lisa Traeger]

I.

[Nick]

But you could make the argument that they both think they're in love because there's no other thing that makes sense. And hear me out, because the.

[Mary]

I think they would have said that.

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know.

[Justin]

But so scared.

[Nick]

It's so crazy.

[Justin]

But he doesn't actually.

[Nick]

But it doesn't make. It's so crazy because, like, the Amanda. What's so crazy? She changed her. She had this, like, fork in the road moment of her life.

[Lisa Traeger]

We were rooting for you.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, like, if, like, Ariana is like. Is she at the Met Gala tonight? She is like, she is hovering between A and B list stardom. She is a huge star. Forget about reality TV star. She's just a star.

[Lisa Traeger]

And I'm not the same. But I also would say Paige, post breakup, stratosphere rising.

[Nick]

Right.

[Lisa Traeger]

And we wanted that for Amanda.

[Nick]

Yes. Specifically the Bravo fans. They're always looking for that next person to root for. Like, that's. It's. It's ingrained in their DNA. And I don't think.

[Lisa Traeger]

Don't separate yourself. It's in your DNA as well. It is their DNA.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, yours.

[Mary]

Ours.

[Jay Ellis]

Sure.

[Mary]

Ours.

[Lisa Traeger]

Your people. Our community.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Our community.

[Nick]

And yeah, I mean, like, again, if Ariana was just a part of an ensemble cast and then Vanderpump ended and it's a tough business to be like, the rest of the Vanderpump cast is kind of just. They're fighting for their careers to keep it going. It is tough. And Ariana is just. Just head and shoulders. And Amanda had a chance at that, and instead she was like, no, I would rather have this guy.

[Lisa Traeger]

And it's because of the guy. Because I'm thinking Lala and Sheena could have had some rise, too. They chose to side with the men instead of being with the girls. And it's another. Don't. On my podcast. It's a crime podcast, but we always say, don't go to jail for a man. Yeah, like, do not.

[Nick]

She went to jail for a man.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's. That's how I feel. Where it's like, you. You chose this guy over these girls. Like, Paige is your real friend.

[Nick]

Over yourself.

[Lisa Traeger]

Sierra's your real. Yeah. And yourself.

[Mary]

Yeah. I do wonder if there's gonna be some sort of, like, they're gonna either downplay Amanda and Sierra's friendship or, you know, if there's gonna be some sort of, like, we weren't really that close. Like, you know, but even if that's true.

[Nick]

Even if that's true, why wouldn't. Why wouldn't you. She had. I mean, she literally threw away millions of dollars.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, it's gonna take.

[Lisa Traeger]

Take.

[Nick]

She obviously is going to be protected by Bravo. She'll be in. In the city. But, like, compared to the opportunities that were about to come her way.

[Mary]

Well, the. The Edie Parker dropped her. Then she had the Jimmy John's ad, which they still.

[Nick]

I think they put her on pause.

[Lisa Traeger]

They took it down and took it

[Mary]

down and put a new.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, and.

[Mary]

But then she had the Jimmy John's, which they move forward with it. And every single comment was like, delete this. Change this. Absolutely not. Jimmy Johnson responded. They're responding to comments like, just try the sand. Like, focus on the sandwiches.

[Nick]

Which I think is crazy that Stan culture is the way it is, but that is how it is.

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, at the end of the day, all you really have is your word. And it's loosey goosey in reality tv, I guess, you know, we can go up and down, but it's like, trust, honesty. Those things do matter. And when that's broken. Cause I had a friendship where the lie happened and it changed stuff. And she's like, one mistake. You're gonna punish me for one mistake? I go, I don't look at you the same. Yeah, you lied to my face. We can have the relationship. We. But, like, don't act like I'm overreacting. It's not one mistake. It changes how I feel.

[Mary]

Right.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And that's, you know, it's. Yeah. Amanda, maybe my Jimmy John's didn't taste that good this weekend. I'll be honest.

[Mary]

It was a little.

[Lisa Traeger]

My veto was a little slimier than normal.

[Justin]

Okay, question. It almost seems a little bit more. There's an aspect of it that reminds me of the Monica, like in Salt Lake City of it all, where it's like Monica really thought she had kind of cracked this kind of code of coming into Housewives as this, like, fan and going in and getting the audience on her side. And then it blew up in her face. And I think what is also kind of happening with this, like, Scamanda, whatever it's called, is that she really thought she had the Ariana moment. She had the page. She was like, oh, I know what happens at this point. The structure has been set.

[Lisa Traeger]

I can do whatever she thought people. Yeah. Be with Wes. We love it. It. That's what she. You think she thought?

[Justin]

I don't know if she. I think she thought she could get away with it because she had.

[Nick]

If not that, what did she think, though? You know what I'm saying? I want to know because she's the Victim.

[Justin]

She's the victim in her narrative. So obviously with west, it's like she's just doing something for her. Finally. She's not thinking about Sierra. You know what I mean? She's obviously just not thinking about anyone else around her because she's so caught up.

[Mary]

She's like, everyone's gonna love this because I chose this, like, fun, sweet guy who's there for me all summer. Everyone's gonna root for this.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Like, she totally didn't even.

[Justin]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Lisa Traeger]

That's just my friends, my group chat, shout out to Carl's a mess. We. Yeah, she was probably just gonna end up married a guy drinking Coronas in New Jersey, and that's what she always wanted.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And that's what she's gonna get.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Light or Corona extra?

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know. I don't know what she's drinking.

[Mary]

Oh, my gosh. Are you Rhode Island? Rahul says Rhode Island.

[Lisa Traeger]

So this is the thing. So, you know, heated rivalry took over my life in a real way. The met gala's today. Can't wait to see what they wear. But I started reading, so I read all six of the Game Changers. Then I read Rachel Reed's other two books. Then I started reading all these other books. Not even. And I read Yesteryear. So I've read, like, 15 books this year. And my friends. Oh, I haven't read it over a decade. That's why this is very, very exciting.

[Justin]

Are they all gay smoke books?

[Lisa Traeger]

Most of them are, but I have a James Baldwin with me. My friend Allison Libby wrote a book. Yesteryear is like the book that Anne Hathway just bought the rights to. That's very hip. Have you heard of this Trad wife influencer wakes up and it's 1855. How good is that?

[Nick]

Whoa.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. But now I'm in another gay hockey series. I've tried to do straight. I don't need. I need. I need it to be guys. And then I read some Murder, but I've have texts from friends being like, put the book down. Come drink with us. A text we never thought we'd write, my friend. And then so yesterday, I'm staying with my friend Bennett, so we watched Southern Hospitality, the newest one. And then he's like, just watch Rhode island because I've been putting it off. The best thing of my life. And then my group chat today was like, yeah, books cannot distract you from this. Stop it. They're amazing. I love a potluck. I love the rich but grounded in reality of them all, they're all great, funny, Jane's fun. I, I, so I only watched one last night and I cannot wait to get in.

[Nick]

Don't kid, because I know they just announced that Dolores is not going to be part of the reunion. But why? And this is no, because we love Dolores. She's an icon. But I, I honestly, I'm more and more confused by what was like, why

[Lisa Traeger]

was she kind of. I don't think they knew it was going to be a hit. I think they were like, oh, we need her to like open to bullet.

[Unknown Male Guest]

She's passing a torch. Like, also, not all friends are part of reunions. Like, just recently, a lot of them have been, but.

[Nick]

No, I know.

[Lisa Traeger]

But I also like, they didn't see Liz and her together talking about the plastic surgery. We needed that. Yeah, we needed that.

[Nick]

When, when the, when the season started, we were a little critical of Joe Ellen leading with like, my mom sucks.

[Justin]

I was never.

[Mary]

Because her first Nick does like to say, we, we.

[Nick]

Well, after last night's episode, yeah, the mom is bad. So bad.

[Lisa Traeger]

Worse than Bronwyn's mom.

[Mary]

Sent her off to boarding, sent her off to quote unquote, boarding school three different times. The first one was when she was in seventh grade and she said it was like a drug, like, rehab place. And Joellen was like, I literally did not do drugs or drink. I just had big boobs and like the guys liked me. So her mom was like, you're promiscuous. You're going off to this. They sent her home after a week. They're like, you don't need to be here. Like, you babes, you're not, you don't have any issues with drugs. Like, nothing's in your system. You can go home. Then I guess the next time was like eighth grade. It seemed like maybe the next year, the following year. And that was for like a month. I think she said a little over a month. And that was with like murderers and it was like court ordered criminals to go to this like rehab place. The third was for over a year. Her mother sent her to this place and she just, they were like, okay, we'll have, we have to take full custody of her. And the second they said that, her mom was like, I can't lose like full custody, so I'll just take her back home.

[Lisa Traeger]

Home.

[Mary]

She's fixed, she's good. But she just kept sending her off, like with criminals. She was like with male and female.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like, what are her, what does she say about it? Like, is she okay with her decision, or is she, like, I up? Yeah. Do we know?

[Mary]

We haven't heard from the mom without it yet.

[Nick]

Gotten that far.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. I had a friend kidnapped in the middle of the night who didn't deserve it by her evil stepmother to, like, a. A drug.

[Nick]

One of those. Yeah.

[Mary]

What?

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And she. It's a tragic story because, like, we were neighbors, and. And her mom died of cancer, and then she got this evil stepmother, and then the dad died of cancer, and she was left with this woman who, like, stole her brace's money and, like, all this stuff and then sent her off in the middle of the night.

[Nick]

Yeah, but, like, the real horrifying version, not the fairy tale.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Wait, so what, like, where is she?

[Lisa Traeger]

I remember she came back, and then, like, we're. You know, it's like we keep in touch kind of on Instagram. It's like a childhood friend. But it's how I learned how to, like, trick or treat because I was an immigrant, you know, like her. She taught me how to kind of be American. And she had an Nintendo 64.

[Mary]

Oh, my God.

[Justin]

You know?

[Mary]

Yes. Of course.

[Lisa Traeger]

I watched Jason for the first time at her house.

[Nick]

Well, usually when it comes to parents, maybe being a young, young dad, I'm a little. You know, it's just like, I always like to think most parents do their best. And I think a lot of times, even with imperfect parents, you can be like, you know, they're doing their best. You know, childhood traumas. Joe Allen's mom did not do her best. She literally sent her kid away being like, I don't want this.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, it's a farce. Like, people saying, like, parenthood changes you. And I do a bit about this, but it's like, no, you're still a. Like, I see you. It doesn't always change people. Like, people or Everyone would be nice in the world.

[Mary]

Right.

[Lisa Traeger]

If parenthood changed people's personalities, I think our world would be better.

[Nick]

But people, for some, I think I've learned that some people want to say. Some people want to have kids. And some people enjoy being parents.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yes.

[Justin]

Period.

[Mary]

Joellen's mom did not enjoy being a parent.

[Nick]

No. Anyways, my heart went out to Joel and after hearing her story. And then I.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like Joellen.

[Justin]

I love.

[Lisa Traeger]

I've only seen that one. But Rose, Rosie was. This is my big pet peeve from the first episode. I hate when someone starts shit and then they cry when they can't handle the heat. Like, no. Yeah. You can't bring up a girl Being like, is she a polygamist? And then crying that everyone's mean to you. It's like you brought it up.

[Mary]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin]

What is your. What are your thoughts on Alicia, and have you gotten to the ball with part with the dolls yet?

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, I saw the dolls in the background.

[Nick]

Yeah. She's very into these dolls.

[Justin]

I. We had her. We had her on. On Zoom and interviewed her and. And I said to Nick this morning, because the dolls are.

[Lisa Traeger]

What brand are they? Like, what are they?

[Justin]

They're just, like, porcelain.

[Nick]

American Girl porcelain.

[Justin]

Like she had. They're these very.

[Mary]

American Girl.

[Justin]

They're not American Girl. They're not brats either. They're almost, like, in between. In, like, an old.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like, she's.

[Nick]

They could be used in a horror film.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. I am a collector, so it's tough for me to be a hater.

[Justin]

I'm not a hater. I'm obsessed with that. I think it's the best thing to

[Nick]

say, but for the wrong person person, that could be spooky.

[Mary]

Wait, what do you collect again?

[Lisa Traeger]

I collect lots of things, but I do have, like, elderly trolls, and I do baby eye trolls. I do Simpsons action figures, and I do McDonald. Like, I have the Halloween nuggets. I have a Malibu Barbie McDonald's toy. And then I have Monchi cheese and Lulu the pig.

[Mary]

Is this something you would ever, like, sell? Are you, like, if. If. No.

[Lisa Traeger]

When I opened up on ebay one day, I like my stuff. I have Dennis Rodman Barbie dolls. Both of them.

[Justin]

That's cool.

[Lisa Traeger]

Stuff like that.

[Mary]

My sister did all the Barbie dolls, and they're all still, like, in there. She never took them out.

[Lisa Traeger]

And that's beautiful and incredible, but I buy. I'm not that precious. Like, I. I love them.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Mary]

And they love me.

[Justin]

I want to, like, play.

[Mary]

We're gonna play.

[Lisa Traeger]

They make me happy. And I have a fan, CeCe Bratz. She's, like, in North Carolina, but she made me a Bratz dollar of me.

[Mary]

Wow.

[Lisa Traeger]

And that's, like, her thing that she tries. She does.

[Nick]

We were watching last night, and Ashley cried again.

[Mary]

Ashley in Rhode Island?

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And. And now I. Now I was like, is she. Do you think she's performing? I was like, absolutely not.

[Lisa Traeger]

No.

[Nick]

And then I told.

[Jay Ellis]

Is.

[Lisa Traeger]

Is her show really on TV or not?

[Justin]

Oh, I think it's like a web series.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah, it is like a web series.

[Justin]

But she was a newscaster.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And then I tell. I tell Natalie the story about now. Ally. Ashley just really cries, and it reminded me of. Of. I'VE been friends with Ashley for a long time. And before. For all the Bachelor fans will know this, but before her and Jared got married, she was obsessed with Jared, and Jared was just like, I. I don't see it. And then we went to Din Tai Fung, and this is before we went on paradise where she, like, famously, I was like, you're never gonna be with him. And then, you know, everyone keeps clipping that. But at this lunch. We're having lunch, and she's telling me she's obsessed with Jared. I'm like, you just gotta stop.

[Jay Ellis]

Just.

[Nick]

I don't think he's. He doesn't see it here. Guys are just friends. And we're at Din Tai Fung at laundry, and she starts bawling at lunch. And I'm like, please stop crying. Everyone here is going to think I made you cry. And she just cries. She just, like, she really is just a very emotional person to the point where, like, you. She might cry at lunch with you.

[Mary]

Sometimes you get that nose tingle. You know, you feel it in your nose, and it's just.

[Justin]

It's better to just let it out. What's her. What's her sign?

[Nick]

I don't know.

[Justin]

When's her birthday?

[Lisa Traeger]

Pisces. Like to cry.

[Justin]

I don't know.

[Nick]

I mean, we're good friends, but I don't. I don't.

[Lisa Traeger]

They're hot. They're a hot couple. Yeah. Yeah, I like seeing that.

[Unknown Male Guest]

My favorite part of Ashley I in this episode was that they were taking their masks off and sharing, like, what they're like, hidden trauma things are. And Ashley, I was crying, and she's like, I just. On the Bachelor, they asked me what my trauma story was, and I just. I didn't have one. And then I was thinking about, in the future, I'm gonna have a trauma story. And, like, that's just so sad.

[Justin]

She's a. She's a Pisces. For everyone wondering. I looked it up.

[Nick]

Rosie. Rosie.

[Lisa Traeger]

I was right.

[Mary]

Yeah, you were right.

[Justin]

Cool.

[Nick]

Kelsey had the mic drop of the episode when she called Kelsey a professional squatter. Oh, my God.

[Mary]

That was high end squatter.

[Nick]

High end squatter. Even. Even better. It was.

[Lisa Traeger]

I mean, this guy obviously gets off paying for girls to do stuff, so, like, who cares? I would live for free if I could. But why is she so trapped in the house? Take a class, Find a hobby. Do a sport. Like, I don't go to pottery.

[Nick]

Yeah, well, didn't she recently announced that she is, like, no longer in that relationship?

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, but I was told yeah. It's like he obviously has a kink and I don't. I don't know. You don't even have to him and your life's getting paid for. Cool.

[Justin]

Yeah, that does sound ideal.

[Lisa Traeger]

What's the problem?

[Justin]

For a girl like me, I do it.

[Lisa Traeger]

I would love to be a high end squatter. I'm working so hard.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Jay Ellis]

Oh, God.

[Justin]

To be a high end squatter does seem like the best case scenario.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. I don't know why anyone's hating. It's just like when she was crying. But I also don't get why you can't go week by week. Like, why is it six months here, six months there? This. That's confusing to me. Like, you never just want to hop up for the weekend? Like, I don't. I.

[Nick]

But then her other man. I don't think you. You've met him yet. No, I haven't, but he showed up wearing a. A. A vest with no undershirt.

[Lisa Traeger]

Okay, nice.

[Nick]

So like the guy that is. He's just fucking is like, looks like a male magician. Jigolo.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Okay.

[Justin]

Jigolo magician.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Like in hacks. Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, it's nice that he doesn't mind that she's fucking other people. I think she has a great scenario like situation and I don't get why way. I don't get the issue.

[Justin]

It kind of.

[Lisa Traeger]

She just wants more.

[Nick]

I think it's just. It's fascinating for people to explore.

[Justin]

She also kind of. There is part of it that kind of reminds me of season one, Beverly Hills Camille grammar of just like kind of going on the show and then as your segue out of a relationship.

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't think Camille knew she was going to se.

[Justin]

I. Well, Camille didn't know.

[Lisa Traeger]

But it kind of reminds me of

[Justin]

like he might have encouraged to go on and be like, oh, yes, this might be ending.

[Nick]

I'm more fascinated by the rula of it all. Like, how do you go on this show? Well, I don't think she knew her.

[Mary]

No, I'm not fascinated by her. I'm fascinated by her husband.

[Nick]

Yeah. But like, how did he agree to this if he was like, the is

[Mary]

like the currently allegedly cheating on her has a mistress. The other women are like, Joellen is friends with a friend who's knows the mistress. So there's like, I'm getting proof for you. All the proof was giving very much like holding a hostage. It like the date in the car and then it was giving like hold the today's newspaper. Yeah. You know, it Was very much. But, like, the fact that he is filming an event with them, and then he's like, oh, my mom's in the hospital. I have to leave. Leaves filming, goes to his mistress's house. House. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. He then comes back to filming not wearing his wedding ring.

[Lisa Traeger]

Wow.

[Mary]

And they're like, where's your wedding ring? He's like, oh, I just. It was. I was putting product in our son's hair and I had to take it off. It was getting sticky.

[Nick]

So, like, do you think his mistress thinks he's single?

[Justin]

She's not.

[Nick]

I think she.

[Mary]

It gives very much. Like. Like they're going to leave each other. Like, he's going to leave her for me. And, like, the, you know, it is real Rula saying, you know, that she's crazy and she's. She's this. She makes stuff up on AI, I think probably only fuels her fire and makes her want to.

[Nick]

Like, the scene where Rula is like, I can't come because I'm sick. And she goes, yeah, on the phone.

[Justin]

It was the most mean girls ass shit I've ever seen in my life. Is awesome. It's crazy that this is all happening. Season one and it's such a tiny state.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Tiny community surface area, like, puts drama, like, at capacity.

[Nick]

But Ria was like, I can't. What was her son symptoms? She was like, I can't see.

[Mary]

She was like, I woke up, I have a bad cough. My throat hurts. I couldn't talk. I couldn't see.

[Nick]

I couldn't, couldn't see.

[Justin]

She had WebMD up and was just listing everything that could get her out of going to the thing she didn't want to go to.

[Mary]

It literally reminded me of when I was in, I think, eighth grade, maybe seventh grade. And I wanted to leave school, so I texted my mom and I'm like, mom, I'm really sick. I need to leave. And she's like, oh, my gosh, what's wrong? And I'm like, I can't talk. She's like, what do you mean? And I'm like, I. I'm, like, opening my mouth and nothing's coming out. And I was dead serious in my head of being like, this will work. And I was sitting at my desk practicing being like. She asked me to, like, show her why I was sick. My mom was like, okay, well, just, like, cough or get some water or something, and I think you'll be okay.

[Lisa Traeger]

Are you guys gonna let your kids take mental health off days of school if they don't Want to go?

[Nick]

No.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like if they fake sick, they're going.

[Mary]

No. I think we'll definitely be like the family who prioritizes real life experiences over.

[Nick]

But it won't be a matter of like. I don't feel like it today.

[Lisa Traeger]

Okay.

[Nick]

Because I just can't handle the pressure. I'll be like, you're going to school?

[Lisa Traeger]

No, I, One time in second grade, my sister, I got to ditch school to go ice skating. And then the next day my teacher's like, are you feeling better? I go, I went ice skating. And then it was a big problem.

[Nick]

I used to, I'm from Wisconsin, so I used to go outside on the weekend without a coat. Like stand outside just to try to get sick.

[Justin]

Yeah. Well, it's like I think with, with, with kids like that you have to see how well they can convince you. And I, I think there were times that my mom would sometimes let me stay home if I pretended to be sick because I really committed.

[Mary]

Oh, I would. If I knew my mom was going to take my temperature. I would go into the bathroom. No. And I would drink hot water out of the faucet because I wanted my mouth to be hot for the thought, for the thermometer.

[Lisa Traeger]

What if they're getting bullied?

[Nick]

That's a whole different, that's totally different.

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, no, that's why I'm asking.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

What was your stay at home TV show that you would stay at home?

[Lisa Traeger]

Everything. And I don't know how I had time for all of it because it's all different channels and they were so important. I didn't either. But Price is Right, Jenny Jones, Matlock Sally Jesse Raphael Montel. But there's another game that's fun. Hollywood Squares.

[Justin]

I watched so much Bones, Bones and Monk.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like oh my God. Tony Shalhoub was at the hotel and I swear he looked at my tits twice. And I cuz that's kind of hard cuz I was at the pool and I saw him standing.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I ran in him at the bathroom at the Golden Globes and he was looking at.

[Lisa Traeger]

And I could tell he was. And I was like, oh my God, is he looking at my tits? Cuz I was wearing a bikini. And then he spun around and looked again and I guess that's like a monk thing. Cuz I was telling friends and I was like, I love this. I, I want to be in this hotel for the rest of my life.

[Justin]

He Mr. Monked your tits.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. And maybe I was being delusional, but I felt like it was real. Like I really Felt.

[Justin]

No, I think you had a moment with him. I think you and Tony Shalhoub. I think Tony Shalhoub is one of the few celebrities that I think if I met him, I would, like, freak out.

[Lisa Traeger]

Really? Yeah.

[Justin]

Well, because it's like so, you know those people that are just so ingrained in your, like, childhood brain like that that they're not real. Like, Monk to me is like a figure.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And then if I saw Tony Shalhoub in real life, I would, like, short circuit and freak out. Anyway.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, it was a thrill. It was a real thrill. What else? But there was something else before Price was right. Because I was at 10, 8. What other game? Oh, I love Hollywood. I said that Newlywood game. I loved.

[Mary]

Y' all weren't sleeping. I feel like I was always, like, sleeping in because it was like, oh, you have to wake up so early for school.

[Nick]

I was definitely waking up for the prices. Right?

[Jay Ellis]

For sure.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. I loved. I love tv.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Because that's why even this break off TV has been a really huge moment for me with like the reading and the heated rival after heated rivalry. It's been hard for me to watch anything else.

[Nick]

I was like 9 years old. To me, like, you over bid. Yeah, it's too high. It's too high. Bet a dollar.

[Justin]

You were getting into, like, the economics of it at a very young age.

[Nick]

I mean. Yeah, I played along. I don't know. Like, right is.

[Lisa Traeger]

I think, I think that's the most universal for all kids staying at home of that era, at least.

[Mary]

I was like, I wasn't watching.

[Justin]

What were you. What were you watching, Natalie?

[Mary]

It was definitely like Disney Channel and Nickelodeon and whatever was on. On.

[Justin]

Were you a Pretty Little Liars kid?

[Mary]

Oh, I was a Pretty Little Liars kid.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah. For sure.

[Justin]

Yeah. That was a. I was also like

[Mary]

a Home Improvement, a George Lopez, but

[Lisa Traeger]

that was later in the day.

[Mary]

Yeah, I was like, up too late. If I. If those shows came on, I definitely knew I needed to go to bed.

[Justin]

Yeah. One time I. I would, like, wake up in a cold sweat and then recess would be on my tv.

[Lisa Traeger]

I love that.

[Justin]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Lisa Traeger]

I was an Arthur Head. Full house. I don't know how I had time for all this. Fresh Prince, the Nanny. Like, I watch every show, but yeah, so this break. So, like, heat arrival recurred my depression. I don't watch TV all day long and my life's been better. Started hypnotherapy.

[Nick]

Hypnotherapy.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Nick]

What's that?

[Lisa Traeger]

I. I Don't know. I tell, I tell people. I'm like, instead of therapy, I just hop from witch to witch. Like, that's real. This switch is on the laptop, and I'm in my bed and she hypnotizes me. And I swear, like, I, I knock the out.

[Nick]

She like, you're being hypnotized by some, Someone online.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, because I don't think it's real, right? But, like, when she counts and wakes me up, I wake the up and I fall down into a thing. And her thing is, you don't have to do anything. You don't have to pay attention, like, go where you ever want. And she's just trying to get into my subconscious, change my narratives.

[Unknown Male Guest]

It's real. A lot of people do it.

[Lisa Traeger]

Okay.

[Nick]

After real.

[Lisa Traeger]

Thank you. And you pay. I pay a lot. Someone goes, oh, does it? Is it covered by insurance? I go, are you out of your goddamn mind? They're not covering, like, heart surgeries.

[Jay Ellis]

No.

[Justin]

After I watched you rivalry, it just made me sad and horny.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, I was so horny. But then I went out to go, and then I realized something's wrong with me, not the world. And I was like, I need help. So then I went to brother. Yeah. But yeah, other things aren't giving me what that gave me. It's, like, tough. So I just, I might explore Page.

[Nick]

What do you think is going to happen? How do you think the Summer house reunion is going to end?

[Lisa Traeger]

Whoa. I don't know.

[Mary]

Could your hypnotherapist tell us?

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, I. How will it end? Depressing. I don't. It's gonna be sick. I'm glad Mia was there. Yeah, I did hear that part at the reunion. Yeah. No, when she. At the leaked audio. When she goes, you left your marriage to be a side chick.

[Justin]

Side.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, side. That was good.

[Nick]

And a little harsh, though.

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, it's not harsh at all.

[Justin]

That's true.

[Lisa Traeger]

Someone fucks over your friend, that's the least mean thing. I would strangle the bitch.

[Justin]

I guess that's true. My.

[Lisa Traeger]

I was at like, someone fucked my friends. Like, I, I, I don't know. You would stand up for your people.

[Nick]

Oh, yeah. I mean, she's standing up for her friend.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, I don't think it's that mean. He. She is a side. She left her marriage to be a side.

[Nick]

Well, no, I mean, she didn't.

[Lisa Traeger]

She. What do you mean?

[Nick]

I don't think she left Kyle for. Well, best.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, like it would have ended anyways.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's why?

[Lisa Traeger]

So the details are what bothers you?

[Nick]

It doesn't bother me. I just think like, I, I hope they stay on point at the reunion

[Lisa Traeger]

because you think there's going to be even another season of Summer House with these people?

[Nick]

No, I think the cast will definitely have a shake up. And then there's the whole in the city element. And then there was like, there was some kind of reality TV conference and I guess there was speculation that that might be some sort of like West Wilson summer house Ozark spin off.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh my.

[Nick]

Which I never thought would be true, but I thought the answer to the executive was interesting because usually when things aren't real, they're quick to be like, that's not a thing. But whoever spoke on it answered it in a very kind of like, I can't really the issue with that I would watch.

[Lisa Traeger]

I mean, I hate that issue. It's like a fun show.

[Justin]

It would be really good if you're getting a Summer House. But people who go and party in the Ozarks and like on boats and like, that's my people, you know, I

[Nick]

don't really give a. I mean, if they want to give him a show, I don't care.

[Justin]

I don't want to watch it with Wes. But I would. What I would. If west was the Dolores, you need your villains.

[Nick]

I don't know. Like, I, I, that's what I don't understand.

[Lisa Traeger]

But he doesn't lean into villain and that's what bothers me. He doesn't lean into the villain. He's still doing I'm a good boy.

[Nick]

But it, but it's not landing, it's not, you know, and when he does the whole like, I don't, I just, I'm just sad and the sad boy kind of thing. But now I think people see through it and now it's easy to someone online.

[Lisa Traeger]

The theory is like, I wonder if he's gonna start going right wing conservative manosphere since the people that supported him are now like you, you've been fake like I want. I hope he doesn't, I hope he doesn't switch.

[Nick]

I don't think he's gonna go that far.

[Lisa Traeger]

I hope, I hope not.

[Nick]

I did, I did think that his. When he randomly started posting politics a few months ago, I thought it felt performative. He's just clearly hyper aware of, of

[Lisa Traeger]

how he's perceived, how he's, that's the new youth way to speak.

[Nick]

But also, but that, but that doesn't land because like if he was, he can't have Imagined this would have landed.

[Lisa Traeger]

I think he thinks. I think he wants to. I don't think he like thought that far. And Amanda is so beautiful to me.

[Mary]

Like I never thought it would make. I think they had this like secrecy, swore to secrecy and then this whole like video whatever thing got put over their heads and they were for forced their hand and. But I don't think either of them were ever going to let this see the light of day.

[Justin]

Yeah, they were probably just gonna around and I think they didn't have to find out.

[Nick]

You're probably right.

[Lisa Traeger]

But the statement and then finding out it's chat gbt.

[Justin]

It's like I think that was a joke. Amanda was joke. Yeah, Joking. But then they were like. Sierra was like chachi BT would be smarter. And then Amanda was like, well, I. I'm joking.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, wow. But like the statement didn't make sense.

[Nick]

Yeah, no, it was basically we're in a situationship. It's wild.

[Lisa Traeger]

So strange. Well, I also want to talk southern hospitality cuz I don't want Maddie and Joe Bradley together.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Lisa Traeger]

I want Maddie to soar, fly through the sky.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Especially after that last episode.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yes, he was doing his best sober girlfriend. And you're gonna do a pirate blackout party.

[Nick]

Is Joe Bradley just another Wes Wilson?

[Unknown Male Guest]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Lisa Traeger]

Joe's more. Joe's less attachment.

[Justin]

Wes Wilson.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Joe's trying to support Maddie but doing all the wrong things accidentally is my take.

[Justin]

Emmy. You know, I don't understand that girl.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, she's a horror movie villain.

[Nick]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's like a gone girl, but gone

[Justin]

girl was she cheek.

[Lisa Traeger]

You know, you're right.

[Justin]

And she had that whole cougar monologue. And Emmy is screaming, crying, throwing up just because she has to deal with what the consequences of her actions and her words.

[Lisa Traeger]

And then sitting at a table just being like, I love this. Yeah.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Oh yeah. That was wild.

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know. I Even if you are racist and don't get anything, why wouldn't you just be like, oh, I'm sorry, I I up. I didn't think about that.

[Justin]

Even Justin and I were talking about this. It was just like, oh, like at the end of the day, if you hurt your friend just as a friend, you should just be like, oh my

[Lisa Traeger]

God, I'm so sorry, Michaels, your issues are stupid and you need to be blind loyal to me.

[Justin]

Like what the take out any sort of context. It's just an insane thing to say. Regardless, I she her brain. I don't understand how the neural pathways Go around there as someone who's taken stuff for that. I don't get Emmy.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, but I want Michaels and TJ forever. And I think Michaels is the most mature, emotionally cool person we've ever had on Bravo. Like, I love him. I love him. Ever some. Yeah. I'm impressed by him at such a young age. To be like, vulnerable and real and open, but also like, professional at work and going through. I don't know. I like, love him.

[Nick]

He's also really tall and good looking.

[Unknown Male Guest]

He's really hot.

[Nick]

Yeah, he's a giant.

[Justin]

Honestly, Michael's kind of reminds me of Justin a little bit.

[Lisa Traeger]

Wait, tell me who you think is more cool. I mean, Eileen Davidson, and she was from. From Bevills. She was emotionally grounded, but who else?

[Nick]

But I don't know. You just said ever. I was like.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, because I'm. I don't. I can't think of someone that has impressed me so much with their, like, maturity.

[Nick]

I don't.

[Lisa Traeger]

I mean, he does do silent treatment, which is immature. My bad.

[Nick]

Still passive aggress. Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, you're right.

[Justin]

Passive aggress.

[Lisa Traeger]

He's like 22, managing a nightclub.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Can you guys get me a table at Republic or what? Like, should we go down?

[Mary]

Like, you're closer with them than we are.

[Lisa Traeger]

You want to do. Yeah, let's do a baby moon at Republic.

[Jay Ellis]

There we go.

[Lisa Traeger]

I just want more T.J. and Michael's romance. And then someone should write a book about it.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And then it's all about them watching Salt Lake City.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's just so romantic.

[Justin]

And it's just like. It's just coded text messages through how much they love Salt Lake City about each other.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. And then hopefully they though too.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Yeah, they would also.

[Unknown Male Guest]

It's a good show.

[Lisa Traeger]

I like them being together. It's the best child show. I love Southern hospitality. I love it.

[Justin]

It's really good.

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know if it's new, but it's like Young pe. I like it.

[Unknown Male Guest]

It's better than the reboot of Vanderpump. Yeah, 100%.

[Nick]

Yeah. Do you want to talk to Bev Hills or do you want.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, I'll talk.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lisa Traeger]

I just. I'm so Garcel that, you know, I hate all of them, but you know, I'll dabble always.

[Mary]

Well, they talked about Garcel at the reunion.

[Lisa Traeger]

They never stop. They never stop.

[Justin]

Always on their minds. You will never get away from her Empire woman that haunts you.

[Nick]

Well, anyways, the Beverly Hills Housewives reunion part two is on I am once again Team Amanda. I think Bose kind of looked silly.

[Justin]

You really saw like, Bose was your girl. Like, you were riding.

[Nick]

I still love bows. I just think in this particular.

[Lisa Traeger]

And what was.

[Justin]

Amanda came in and then you were

[Nick]

like, well, well, did you see that Bose kind of like went for Andy post episode two. So in part two of the reunion, they, you know, Amanda and Bose were kind of at each other. So like they both have like these, these online courses. They're both successful business people. And, and Bose has come for Amanda suggesting that she is a fraud, that she is scamming people, which is a. Isn't. Which is an aggressive attack on anyone's business. It better be true if you're going to accuse someone of being a scammer.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's not an accusation. I think Amanda admits to.

[Nick]

No, she doesn't.

[Lisa Traeger]

Being like, I don't know anything. You just have to spiritually say I want money and bring it to me.

[Nick]

I mean, whatever it is. I just think it. She's not, I think she's upfront with what she's offering. Offering. And she's not. I mean, it's. And I don't. It doesn't seem like the people who have signed up for her, her classes or whatever it is. I don't know. It is. Have had it. Have taken exception. And, and anyways, they're talking about it and then Bo says something about, I don't know, something about like it being a short term thing, being the cmo. And Andy kind of gives her a look like that doesn't make sense. And then Bose is just like, well, that's kind of how a CMO is. It's like a short term thing. It's just like you get hired to do a job and you're done. And I'm like, well, wait, you're. You're describing a consultant, not a, like a chief executive officer, like, or chief marketing officer or whatever. But like that's. And yeah, those stints could be short term, but that's not what you're describing. It didn't really make much sense. And then she goes post episode and she does this whole like Instagram and she's like posting these articles about how like, apparently in the industry the chief marketing officer is often like a scapegoat for like other executives because, like, you know, when campaigns, you know, which also I'm sure is true. Like, I don't doubt that that's true, but that's not in any way had anything to do with what like Amanda and Andy were Talking about. And it was like, well, which one is it? Did you. Are you, are you being scapegoated because you're a chief marketing officer or is a chief marketing officer like a short term employment contract? It felt like she was kind of talking on us both sides.

[Mary]

I need them to keep things to where I can understand them. If you start giving me acronyms of your business and I sure, yeah, I

[Justin]

want drama over past apps.

[Nick]

But also then, and then, and then Bose is like, well, you're just, you're just trying. You. You have your business to make as much money as you possibly can. And what I appreciate about Amanda, she thought about the accusation. She goes, yeah, which I honestly appreciate honesty. Because also, like, when you're in, like, the idea that people are in business not to make money is dis. Disingenuous. And. And Bose didn't accuse her of making money at all costs. She just accused her of trying to make as much money as possible.

[Mary]

And I thought she was referring to, like, talking about it on the show. No, she was trying to, like, profit off of being on the show and like promoting her and make as much money as possible.

[Nick]

Talking about her, I mean, whatever. You are allowed to make as much money as possible. I thought it comes across as disingenuous to be like, to. And then it's like, well, why are you doing it, Bose? Like, if you're not doing it just for goodwill, you're in. You're not doing it to give back. I mean, like, are you off? You know, it's just like, you're coming after her business. Amanda has a right to defend herself.

[Lisa Traeger]

You know, sometimes comedians like that have been doing it for a long time, they get really Haiti hateful about. Like, if you're an influencer, you get famous on the Internet or then you're a newer comedian, but you're selling out theaters or doing better. And it's this thing of like, well, you didn't do it the right way and you're not actually a comedian and this and that. And you can rally yourself up and you, you could be like, oh, you didn't do open mics, you didn't do this. But it's like, whatever, it's working. It's hard to connect to an audience. They did it like, this has nothing to do with you. And I get that from her where it's like, I followed the rules.

[Justin]

I did it the right way.

[Nick]

I think Bose looks at Amanda and says, like, we're not the same.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yes, that's what it is.

[Nick]

And she And. And I think she made a bunch of assumptions about who Amanda was. And I think at the end of the day, Amanda is a serious business person. And yeah, I think. I think a bow is kind of of played herself a little bit.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Justin]

It is interesting because bows and Amanda are two complete, like character foils of each other. And it is so specific in the way that they like, process talking about money of like the analytical bows and then literally manifesting mama Amanda going at it. And they will literally never understand each other. Like, there's no. Their brains work completely differently. Like, not good or bad. Like, if it's just sometimes you really are just, you know, on the complete opposite end of a spectrum.

[Lisa Traeger]

And Bo's like, you know, her partner passed. And I think when that happens, so much finance money, all of. There's just so much on her. And you're right. Like they're coming from such separate places. And then it is interesting and Amanda's just like, you just gotta think about it and the money will come.

[Justin]

Yeah. And that's the most infuriating thing to say to someone who is been literally spending their entire, like, career working so hard and just grinding non stop. And then this girl comes in and is just like, we believe in.

[Mary]

It's like you just have to write it in your journal.

[Justin]

And I just choose not to do.

[Nick]

But that is what Amanda is doing.

[Justin]

It's not what Amanda's doing, but it's the. And it's the. It's the. She doesn't like her sexuality vibe.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Justin]

It's the girliness of it. It's the.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's really about internal, like, spend money to make money. I go, you can't tell that to people. Like, that's like, not.

[Mary]

Not because the woman from Shark Tank.

[Lisa Traeger]

Barbara.

[Mary]

Barbara, yeah. She was like, I never. I didn't save a penny. She was like, I spent, spent, spent, spent, spent. And I would spend all my money and then a million dollars would come right back in.

[Justin]

It's like, that's really cool. I would cry if I had to spend that much money. Like.

[Nick]

Like Kyle and the mauricio of it all, that little flashback was so.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Oh, and Kyle said, I own half of the agency.

[Jay Ellis]

Oh, she does.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Yeah, she does.

[Nick]

I actually, like, I didn't. That whole cast, it's. No matter who the focus was, it's just a bunch of people projecting their own trauma. Yeah. You know, because, like, you know, so many of these women have had divorces. Erica's had a divorce with Tom Girardi, who was literally in Jail. You know, you have Dorit going through a divorce, and PK's doing interviews, like, trying to, like, throw her under the bus. And he seems like just kind of a shady. I mean, Dorit and. And PK do seem like the same person. They do feel like they are made for each other now that are getting divorced. They're at each other's throats. But, like, Kyle has this, like, they're no longer together, but they're still married. They seem to have a lot of mutual respect. And I do think. Think the way that all these women are, like, telling her how she needs to get divorced. And maybe there's some. Like, Bose was the only one who made sense, which is like, at least while you guys are getting along, maybe this is a good time to, like, separate assets. Which that is. That is practical advice.

[Lisa Traeger]

The rumors I hear is that Mauricio does shady. So if they get divorced, all their filings and money will come out, and then he's gonna have to have more trouble with the law because he's gotten in trouble with this one house. He was double dipping. Like, I think he. That's what I heard from a friend. Alleged. But that.

[Nick]

That's giving blog, though. Who knows? Maybe it's true. But like, I feel like that's could potentially just be under the Internet. Speculation of fan theory. And I don't. It doesn't have to necessarily be nefarious.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, no. But I wonder if that's it, like, why split up all these assets and like, give everyone all these filings into the courts when we have to, when we get along. And I think in 10 years, they'll get back together.

[Nick]

I. But I, you know, know, like, if they seem to have an ideal situation where they have this family, they have their daughters, there's a mutual respect. They've made a lot of money together. For whatever reason, they've lost the love for what, you know, he's out there doing his thing, being a boy. She's figuring out her life. But, like, if you're.

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, what happened was he didn't emotionally fulfill her when her best friend passed away in a tragic way. And that's what happens.

[Nick]

Whatever the reason did not. It just seems like.

[Mary]

I mean, when Andy asked is part of this emotional disconnect part of the reason why you guys got a divorce? She said, yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, that was cold as hell. When he goes, life passes. When she was breaking down in Amanda's house and they showed that flashback and he. And she's like, I'm just sad and they showed that video of, like, Kyle and one of their daughters is, like, a little girl. And, like, our. You know, with it just like, that was hard to watch because it just tells you just how fast time is. And, like, here's this younger version of Kyle and her younger daughters who are now getting married. And it's just like, that life.

[Lisa Traeger]

That life that they built together trivialize, like, reality TV often. And I have to, like, have these discussions with losers, and they're like, oh, it's this or they're that. I go at the end of the day, if they're vapid or whatever. Bad things. We've seen children be born. We've seen people lose their parents, get homes foreclosed on, go to prison. Like, we are a part of. They're really sharing the real lives. And it's a lot. We've seen Portia grow up.

[Nick]

Yeah. It was just kind of sad anyways. And then Dorit. Dorit's lost her.

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, to me, it's like they're all jealous. It's like, yeah, Kyle is richer than you. She's more concerned, connected than you. She's hotter than you. Like, what do you want? Like, they're so jealous of her. They all come for her, and then they're mad that Kyle's like, I'm rich. Sorry, like, what the.

[Nick]

And to Kyle's point, it is half of Kyle's. Because I'm assuming what she's saying is true is that, like, they didn't. They were both poor, then they got rich. And California is One of the two.

[Jay Ellis]

50.

[Nick]

50 states in this country. So, like, it doesn't matter. Yeah, she. It is half of her.

[Unknown Male Guest]

It's Kathy's part that. Where she's like, does he know that? Because it's kind of like Kathy's picking into the part where it's like, do they even talk about this? Are they avoiding?

[Nick]

Maybe so. But again, you're projecting. Like, again, maybe. Maybe Amanda, like we said last week, maybe Amanda's husband isn't like pk. Maybe Mauricio, for all his faults, is still loyal to Kyle and his. In his family, you know? And maybe he's not gonna, like, screw over Kyle. Maybe he will. I don't know. But the way all these women will project what's happening to them on each other is.

[Lisa Traeger]

And then never have the effort. Empathy for each other when they're going through it.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Wait, you were. You mentioned Kathy, which obviously reminds me of caviar sour cream, which reminds me of Ron Potato. Do not call Something. A hot dog. If there's not a hot dog in there. Those creme fraiche hot dogs that she was passing out at the party with the caviar. You can't say it's a hot dog if there's no hot dog in it.

[Justin]

The hot dog does need a little.

[Lisa Traeger]

Why not just have a little toast? Then?

[Unknown Male Guest]

It's like a veggie dog. But it's not veggie. It's caviar.

[Lisa Traeger]

It wasn't. It was creme fraiche and caviar on top. In a bun.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Yeah, it's a different version of a veggie dog.

[Justin]

You're really just using a hot dog style bun.

[Lisa Traeger]

If anything, you need to get different

[Justin]

breading, because that's a bit thick.

[Nick]

And then you had Dorit basically wanting a credit for this whole. The whole Morgan Wade of it all.

[Unknown Male Guest]

Well, it comes from Andy saying. It comes from Andy saying, what were you, in quotes, protecting her? Because Dorit claimed she was protecting Kyle,

[Nick]

which is basically like, if a friend was like, hey, can I tell you something? Please don't tell anyone. And they're like, yeah, for sure I won't. Like, Dorit wants. That's dorit protect. Like, if I was like, hey, Liza, can I tell you a secret? And, like, we're friends, right? Please don't say anything. Apparently, if that were to happen, that would be you protecting me by not telling anyone.

[Justin]

It's also, like, according to Dorit talking about to Kyle's defense, obviously, everyone kind of gives her a hard time about the Morgan of it all because it's whatever. But no, but then it's literally her being like, hey, I'm in this relationship with. Maybe I'm into this relationship possibly with this woman maybe. And I don't really know what that means about me or my sexuality. Like, I'm confused. Don't want to talk about it publicly. Don't really want it to be on the show. Maybe I got a little too close to the sun by having us tattoo each other, and now I'm regretting my decision. Can we just, like, not talk about it? Because I don't want to get outed when I'm not ready. And then Dorit's like, yeah, the fact that that's the same as not going to your book at the event.

[Nick]

Speaking of the book event, when Andy had that perfect analogy being like, well, you know, I thought Sutton made perfect sense. She's like, listen, like, you. You came to my thing and just talk shit. So I just opted to not come and talk Shit. And then he's like. Andy's like, that kind of makes sense. And gives Dorit an analogy. And she's like, well, that's just a bad analogy. I'm like. And Andy goes like, I thought it was perfect, and it was perfect. And it was like, you can't even admit to that. You can't even acknowledge knowledge. Like, it's just, you know, she can't

[Lisa Traeger]

admit to anything because then when she starts admitting stuff, she will drop to her knees and cry at her life that she's built that's based on lies.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like, she can't look inward because she will combust with the trees.

[Unknown Male Guest]

I am curious what, like, Garcelle's thoughts would be on this, because that was one of the reasons why Garcelle and Sutton drifted apart. Because Garcelle was asking Kyle about it.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Unknown Male Guest]

And then Sutton talked me on the camera about it. And then on camera wouldn't mention anything.

[Lisa Traeger]

It is.

[Justin]

It is interesting that so much of this context of Beverly Hills is just that one thing you can't talk about.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's always been the boring. It's been the mo. Always. Not always.

[Justin]

It's a hangout show.

[Lisa Traeger]

More. It's the most boring. Because they're so savvy. It's like the Hollywood.

[Nick]

But they're talking. They keep referencing production while pretending we're not supposed to acknowledge that it's production. And it's just like, yeah, Sutton saying

[Unknown Male Guest]

that we were all asked to read the article about Erica is like, super production. Because that season was all.

[Mary]

And saying that for digging stuff up. The two million dollar loan tidbit about Amanda. She's like, well, that was given to me.

[Nick]

Yeah. It's like mature women.

[Lisa Traeger]

I mean, Sutton. Sutton. I mean, it's so sad for her because she had a real friendship with Garcelle and she chose proximity to people who don't like her at all over an actual friendship. And then pretending she doesn't know what happened.

[Unknown Male Guest]

That's why Garcelle was hurt.

[Jay Ellis]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, Lisa Traeger, everybody. Where can they follow you?

[Lisa Traeger]

Glitter cheese on Instagram. But then my Netflix special, Night Owl. Still keep watching it.

[Nick]

Keep watching that. Thank you to all our guests, including Lisa and Jay Ellis. We'll be back tomorrow with a bonus episode of Reality Recap. We'll be diving deep into all the Mormon Wives drama that's going out on the Internet right now. A lot of Jesse Draper and. And Dakota going at it. Frank Taylor, Frankie Paul has entered a chat. We'll be jumping into that. And so much more. So do not forget to tune in, tell your friends, subscribe all that fun stuff. Thanks for coming by.

[Lisa Traeger]

Thank you.

[Nick]

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[Mary]

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