E1123 - RHORI Breakdown w Liz, Amanda's Beach Lie, Dinner With Kyle & West's Seating Choices w Ben Mandelker

Summary

The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition Episode E1123 - RHORI Breakdown w/ Liz, Amanda's Beach Lie, Dinner With Kyle & West's Seating Choices w/ Ben Mandelker May 7, 2026

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Overview

This lively episode of The Viall Files, hosted by Nick Viall and Natalie Joy with the "Household" crew (Justin, Mary, and more), dives into recent Bravo drama—focusing on an explosive episode of Summer House and the much-buzzed Real Housewives of Rhode Island (RHORI). Special guests include Ben Mandelker from "Watch What Crappens" for cheeky, in-depth Bravo analysis, and RHORI’s Liz McGraw, offering candid behind-the-scenes insight. The conversation seamlessly moves from personal updates to Bravo’s wildest moments, hot takes, and honest reflections on reality tv culture, loyalty, and authenticity.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Personal & Pop Culture Catch-up (01:04–11:52)

• Natalie's Pregnancy & “Survival Mode”

  • Natalie details pregnancy challenges, self-care routines, and her mom’s questionably timed trip to Europe.
  • Notable quote: “If I don’t rest, I have started getting Braxton Hicks…that was wild for [my mom] to think, like, now’s the time.” — Natalie (04:22)

• Parenting Realities & Humor

  • Nick and Natalie joke about parenthood, their 2-year-old’s milestones, and keeping it together before twins arrive.
  • Collective reflection on “survival mode” and finding ways to recharge, with “touch grass” mantras and Nick’s newfound chalk art hobby.

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2. Summer House S8: Explosive Drama Analysis (15:03–52:23)

a. Setting the Scene: Summer House's Current State (15:03–18:41)

• Ben Mandelker’s Bravo Bonafides

  • Ben joins to dissect the current Summer House season and captures the anxiety, shifting alliances, and the joy of “scandal in real time.”
  • “We are always worried about Carl. Carl…has, like, his Persona has now become like, delicate husk who always has to be, like, managed at all times.” — Ben (18:10)

• The Amanda and West Scandal

  • Amanda’s covert emotional entanglement with West comes under intense scrutiny, especially in light of her marriage to Kyle.
  • Ben: “I just can’t believe that Amanda would go on camera and say these things if she’s actively, like, having an affair with this guy. But that chair thing…this might move the needle for me.” (23:05)

b. Beach Day, Dinner Conflict, and Emotional Affairs

• Amanda’s “I Would Die for Sierra”… Or Would She? (21:05+)

  • Amanda’s beach confessions and possible foreshadowing of betrayal.
  • Hilarious dramatic readings of Amanda’s lines: “The way I would cut West off in one second if [Sierra] gave me one look…” — Amanda (21:33)
  • Analysis: Is Amanda being performative or totally oblivious?

• Confrontation at Dinner—Kyle vs. Amanda, Wes's Odd Moves (22:34+)

  • Play-by-play of Kyle lashing out at Amanda, Wes physically positioning himself to “protect” Amanda, and the gender dynamics at play.
  • “The sitting behind her was really weird… their relationship has to be—also, if they weren’t banging at this point—like, emotionally, something’s up.” — Ben (24:50)
  • Group consensus: Even if not physical, Amanda and West’s bond was emotionally charged and deeply hurtful to Sierra.

• Sierra, Wes, and Friendship Betrayal (26:44–29:41)

  • Dissection of Sierra’s heartbreak, clarity about wanting a “friendship before love,” and West’s evasive behavior.
  • “After watching back this season, I realized, Sierra…what you were communicating to me, and I just completely ignored that…” — Nick, on what Wes SHOULD say at the reunion (36:26)

• The Complicated Aftermath and Bravo’s “Learning & Growth” Clichés

  • Satirical take on the way Bravo stars attempt damage control, citing “healing processes” and waiting for public sentiment to shift.
  • “I want to welcome people back because I decided you’re welcome back, not because you manipulated me back.” — Ben (35:09)

c. Cast Dynamics, Maturity, and Hypocrisy (44:30–52:23)

• Ben & Sabrina’s Shady Relationship

  • Skepticism over their timeline, excessive “make-out” montages, and old Facebook-style PDA.
  • “Let’s kiss. Wait, before we kiss, let’s get the camera up. OK, now.” — Ben (46:29)

• Dara, KJ, and House Dynamics

  • Rumors about Dara being “in it for fame.” General confusion or ambivalence toward new cast members’ authenticity.

• Jesse’s Redemption?

  • Jesse’s “intentional dating” arc is met with tentative optimism, but the hosts are wary after being “burned” by growth storylines before.
  • “I usually fall for it. Ronnie…is much more cynical than I am… But for some reason, I’m like, I need more evidence. You know why? Because Wes really ruined it.” — Ben (49:09)

• Calling Out Performative Authenticity

  • The table weighs in on when Bravo stars are self-producing versus being raw and real, arguing the best drama is rooted in genuine emotion, not Reddit commentary.

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3. RHORI: Real Housewives of Rhode Island Deep Dive w/ Liz McGraw (67:24–94:25)

a. Cast Chemistry, Age Differences, and “Matriarch” Vibes

• Liz on Why RHORI Clicks

  • The cast’s instant connection is tied to Rhode Island’s unique setting and their willingness to “dig in.”
  • “Everyone was really concerned about digging in, you know, and we gave it and then some.” — Liz (68:17)
  • On being the “matriarch/dinosaur”: “Sometimes like, you know, I’m up there on an island…there’s such disparity in age.” (68:53)

• Boat Culture & Wealth

  • Rhode Island boat days contrast with Florida’s sandbar parties—multiple nights on board, upscale dinners (“Block Island, Newport, Nantucket”). (77:40)

b. Rula’s Cheating Scandal & Small-Town Intrigue

• Why the Mistress is “Hell Bent”

  • The group marvels at the mistress’s boldness in providing “evidence” and Rhody’s rumor-mill culture.
  • Liz: “There’s so much white knuckling and Joellen is so intent on…making sure she’s right.” (70:27)

• Ethics of Digging for Dirt

  • Discussion of Jo Ellen’s persistence vs. meddling and whether delivering hard truths is justified.
  • “If I were too proud to put it on display on TV, I would probably not ask for evidence...” — Liz (72:24)

• Why Did Brian Risk It?

  • Mystification at Brian’s arrogance or ignorance; the group can’t fathom choosing public life while carrying on an affair.
  • “My husband and I discuss this…what was he possibly thinking?...Even to me, and I’m in it, it’s a mystery.” — Liz (74:41)

c. Housewife Life, Trauma, and Friendship

• Housewife Advice from Dolores

  • “Just be yourself”—Liz reflects on navigating the show, sometimes wishing for more specific warnings. (78:21)
  • On fitting in: “I would have loved to have my cohort...someone who may be related to me a little more, you know, on an age level.” (89:48)

• Personality Clashes: Rosie vs. Kelsey

  • Liz explains their volatile friendship as a function of opposite personalities, not just competition. (80:10)

• Supporting Fellow Castmates

  • Candid reflection on Jo Ellen’s traumatic background and advice on channeling pain into positive change: “The only way out is through.” — Liz (87:56)
  • On defining oneself by childhood trauma: “Sometimes we can, our trauma can be our identity… It doesn’t really allow us to get through it.” — Nick (87:56)

• Biggest Worries for the Season

  • Liz teases a “bumpy ride” ahead and hopes viewers see her authenticity. (93:23)

d. Memorable Moments and Quotes

• On Self-producing vs. Being Real (Ben Mandelker, 58:50–59:51):

  • “When people start self-producing, it’s a stink that infects the whole show. Because when one person does it, then…someone else says, well, why should I put everything out there if they are holding stuff back?”
  • The best reality TV is “rooted in truth”—not manufactured conflict.

• On Summer House Reunion Expectations (Ben & Nick, 36:26):

  • “If [Wes] doesn’t go on the reunion and doesn’t say [to Sierra]…I realized…I ignored your feelings…I need him to name it and actually hear that he understands…”

• On RHORI’s Place in Bravo (Liz McGraw, 89:34):

  • “Since its inception an avid housewife fan…This was always my guilty pleasure… actually being on it—it’s still so surreal. The opportunity is wild and I am so grateful.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00–01:03 - Ads, intro/comedic banter.
• 01:04–11:52 - Household check-in, pregnancy, self-care chat.
• 15:03–52:23 - Ben Mandelker on all things Summer House & Bravo, Amanda/West drama, cast analysis.
• 52:23–61:32 - Summer House minor cast arcs, career titles, authenticity.
• 67:24–94:25 - Liz McGraw (RHORI): candid cast reflections, Rula’s scandal, Boat culture, life as a Housewife, trauma & healing, friendship drama.
• 92:19 - Liz picks OG New York, Salt Lake, and Beverly Hills as favorite franchises.

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Tone & Style

• Unfiltered, gossipy, and playful; heavy on analysis and inside jokes for Bravo fans.
• Occasional poignant moments about friendship, trauma, and healing.
• Honest reflections from both hosts and guests; equal parts empathy and shade.

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For the Bravo Superfan or the Curious Newcomer

If you missed the episode, you’ll walk away with:

• A clear grasp of this week’s most jaw-dropping Summer House moments and the behind-the-scenes emotional context.
• Key insights into how Bravo stars manage—and sometimes fail at—authenticity and damage control.
• A candid conversation with Liz McGraw on RHORI, providing context only an insider can deliver: local culture, cast chemistry, and the real impact of reality TV stardom.
• Sharp, quotable quips and vulnerable admissions—not to mention all the dirt you crave from your favorite reality shows.

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Notable Finale Quote:

• “The only way through it is through it, Liz.” — Nick (93:52)

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For more reality recaps, relationship advice, and celebrity deep-dives, subscribe to The Viall Files!

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hey you there. In the baby registry rabbit hole. The thing experienced parents agree on. A Nanit smart baby monitor. One camera, one app for video breathing, motion monitoring and personalized sleep insights all in one place. Check in from anywhere, get real time safety notifications and capture every sleepy smile and goodnight kiss. The best part, those insights help you get more sleep starting night one, add it to your registry or [e-mail].

[C]

you're crazy.

[A]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files reality recap edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the other host, Natalie. She's also my wife.

[B]

Aw.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm also still pregnant.

[A]

Indeed you are. We also have sweet boy Justin and Mary with us. We have a fantastic episode lined up for you today. We have Ben Mandelker and he is with us to talk all. All things. Bravo. Obviously, another just kind of jaw dropping episode of Summer House. There's always like, wow for, for people watching this.

[D]

This is how I was sitting on my couch while this was happening the entire time.

[A]

That was a little dramatic. We were in bed.

[D]

I was, I mean, I was dramatic.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

I was like, that's insane.

[C]

That's crazy.

[A]

Anyway, we have obviously that to get into. We are also incredibly excited to have Liz McGraw. She is one of the many stars of the Real Housewives Rhode island, which is a show we are. I'm. I'm really enjoying and love it. We have her to get into some of the ongoing burning questions. Obviously we have the recent news about Rula and Brian and this kind of evidence that Joe Ellen has uncovered. And there's obviously a lot to talk about with Liz and we have her later this episode. So super excited.

[E]

I have a question for Natalie before we jump into it all.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

Um, I'm curious, like, what has been getting you through your pregnancy at this moment? Are there any cravings? Cause I saw you post the photo the other day of like laying in bed with your feet up and I just think it's very fascinating to see like what people use.

[B]

I don't know what's been getting me through. I mean, I definitely feel like the scheduling. Not scheduling, but I just like make sure that I do lay down and Put my feet up. Because if I don't, I have started getting Braxton Hicks, which are false contractions. But it's just because I, like, do so much. And obviously river is so active and she's so busy, and she's ghosting. Go, go. Non stop. That, like, used to be when she'd nap, I would do laundry, I'd clean, I'd, like, try to, like, pick, you know, do whatever I could. And now I'm like, nope, I'm going to lay down. I'm going put my feet up, and that's the best I can do.

[D]

You need some time to relax and just, like, reset.

[A]

She's also kind of just in survival mode at this point.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

One day at a time. One day at a time.

[B]

And, like, packages are starting to arrive.

[E]

That's fun.

[A]

It's getting a little scary.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

We're really, really.

[A]

I don't know how. Now he's done it. Obviously. Super thrilled. Excited. Blessed. Yeah, excited.

[E]

Grateful.

[A]

Hashtag grateful, hashtag blast. I got enough stress in my life, you know, I, you know, it's like I'm waiting for that heart attack.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

It's not like you're, like, running a company already have a kid or traveling all the time.

[A]

So it's just like, I, I, I just been like, I'm just gonna set that aside. The, the, the two babies just gonna, we're.

[D]

We're going to circle back to that.

[A]

We're going to circle back to that, and that's. It's going to be really inconvenient when. So they did announce. We now know that Love Island Season 8 will be dropping on June 2nd. Super excited about that.

[E]

That's the universe telling you to name baby number one Love in the second island. Love Island.

[C]

Love island.

[D]

Or whoever ends up winning Love Island.

[E]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Yes, of course.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

What's crazy is that my mom has decided a few months ago, she was like, oh, I'm going to go her second. My aunt, her sister lives in Spain. And so every so often, every few years, you know, they. She gets to go to Europe and visit her sister. And she was like, yeah, I'm going to go and visit your aunt Dana this year. I'm like, oh, cute. When are you thinking? She's like, probably in, like, May. Ish. I'm like, okay, cool. And then last week, I'm like, wait, when are you going to Europe? She's like, oh, I go May 13th through, like, middle of June. I'm like, huh, that feels like you're cutting things kind of Close to, like, the arrival of twins, don't you think?

[A]

When did she plan this?

[B]

And then she was like, she'll be refreshed. Then she started panicking. Then she called my Aunt Dana. My Aunt Dana's like, if you're gonna cancel your trip, you gotta tell me. You gotta tell me right now.

[A]

If you're gonna cancel the trip, why'd you have to cancel it?

[B]

Cause now my mom's like, oh, my God, what if I go and then I can't get back and then you have the twins, and then I'm stuck in the back.

[A]

Maybe she doesn't have to go for a month.

[B]

I don't know. They've got plans. They're booked. They're busy. They're going to Greece.

[E]

Yeah, they're going.

[B]

They're popping all around. But I was like, honestly, mom, that was wild for you to think, like, now's the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

You know what this sounds like? Leia planning her pregnancy on my planned Europe trip this summer, which is a storyline we don't need to get into. Anyways, happy for both of you guys. And I understand your mom.

[A]

You are in Europe.

[E]

Not anymore. Because she's on maternity leave, so I understand your mother. I'm like, been there, done that.

[B]

But my mom was like, I just needed one more. One last hurrah before I've got. Cause my brother's also expecting a baby this summer.

[D]

Sometimes, you know, you need. It's like, y' all get a babymoon. But, like, she needs.

[B]

Grammy needs a baby.

[D]

Grammy needs a baby.

[B]

Moon. Yeah.

[E]

So she's going still. She might have to fly early.

[B]

She's going still. And she's like, you just better keep those babies inside. And I'm like, I will do my best.

[D]

Hold it in.

[B]

I will do my best.

[A]

I'm a little scared.

[B]

Yeah, I'm terrified. I am shaking in my boots. But we will survive.

[D]

You guys are gonna.

[B]

Everyone is. Everyone says the first year is pure survival.

[E]

They always say so.

[A]

Yeah. What happens if you already feel like you are surviving survival mode and your cortisone is already. What do you do then?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I think I'm gonna be on nine flights in, like, seven days.

[B]

What's wild is river, like, she understands so much, obviously. It's so weird because she just is, like. It feels like every day it's this new grown child now. Like, she just. It's just crazy to me. Like, she jumped in the bed this morning and she's like, I'm river and I'm like, yeah, you are.

[E]

Like, how old is she now?

[B]

She's two. And she turned to February 2nd, so

[A]

I just say two now when people ask.

[B]

Yeah, I think you can.

[D]

Is she an Aquarius or a Pisces?

[B]

Aquarius.

[C]

Cute. So it's just.

[E]

Her original due date was my birthday.

[B]

It was. It was.

[A]

That's so.

[B]

But she. I told her, like, daddy's going out of town for a few days. And it's like. Then she was like, no, I play with Dada. And I was like, I know, but he's got to go work. She was like, no. And I was like, well, go out there and play with them. And then she did.

[A]

She came out crying.

[B]

It's like crazy.

[E]

She loves you.

[D]

Yes.

[E]

If you do the math, you've raised a child for two years, which means you can do one year per twin. So you are prepared.

[B]

Honestly.

[D]

That's a really good point.

[B]

So true.

[A]

Think about it.

[B]

That is so true.

[D]

Sometimes math.

[B]

We're fine. We're fine.

[D]

Yeah, you guys are fine.

[B]

We're fine. I feel like I'm also prioritizing. Like, when I have a moment, one of my favorite phrases is touch grass. Oh, I hate when people tell me to go touch grass, but I love to tell myself to touch grass.

[D]

I love. I love to tell myself to touch grass and then jokingly tell others to touch grass. But I do understand how frustrating it is.

[B]

But when you actually do go outside and put your feet into real grass,

[A]

you're like, okay, put the damn phone down.

[B]

You know, put the phone down.

[A]

Sometimes, as my wife would tell me,

[D]

yeah, you just gotta wait. What are your guys's, like, favorite ways to touch grass?

[A]

Well, lately I've been drawing.

[D]

You've been drawing?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, yeah.

[A]

I don't know if you've noticed.

[B]

He's been chalk drawing.

[A]

I got a couple to post I haven't posted.

[B]

He came home from the lake and told me his mom bought him a bunch of chalk. Oh, how nice.

[A]

My mom wanted me to draw for her at the lake. The only problem is, is the concrete at the lake, you know, like driveway concrete for anyone who cares.

[B]

Yeah, It's a little rough.

[A]

It's a little rough.

[B]

They.

[A]

They literally take a broom and sweep it because they want to have that kind of texture.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

But we have some smoother concrete in la. Anyways, I absolutely love to get outside. And it really has been like, I, you know, when. When I got into it because Nellie bought river chalk, and then I was, you know, stealing your chalk and then realized it Was just really relaxing to draw mountains and happy little trees, be

[B]

outside, hear the birds tweet.

[A]

You know, I had an appy accident yesterday.

[D]

You did?

[A]

Yeah, the stream. I had my stream go one way and I, and I'm not talking about peeing, guys.

[D]

He's talking about chalk drawers.

[A]

I know. I'm talking about happy accidents and streams. Really mean. I drew a river, not my daughter.

[D]

So many double entendre.

[A]

And I wanted it. I just, I, I, I changed it up. So I had to, I had to fix it. Yeah.

[B]

And were you happy with your finished product?

[A]

I'd get it a seven out of ten.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, I definitely, I mean, we have a daughter who is obsessed with being outside. And so I think just like sitting in a comfy outdoor chair with like a cup of coffee. River's running, dogs running, Nick's chasing, there's giggles. It's like, that is just pure heaven to me.

[D]

Mine is like, I, I just grew up going to the beach so much and so I don't do it as much here just because, you know, it's colder here than in Florida and it's a bit more to like go. But no, my favorite way is just like going to the beach and just like absolutely decompressing. And just because cell phone service is usually kind of bad out there too, and you just get to like hang out and it just feels like so nice in my body just to like, relax.

[B]

Everyone needs a reset, you know, Everyone needs a little reset. And you know who gives you the best reset?

[A]

Who?

[B]

Nature's sunshine. I've heard of nature sunshine. Supplements give us the opportunity to reset

[A]

from specifically the chlorophyll stick packs which I will off. I just honestly just make a drink and then send it next to your little square drawing.

[B]

And yeah, with sustainably sourced ingredients from all over the world, they're figuring out where each plant grows best. Because we all deserve the best. And because they're nature sunshine, they used solar powered u. S manufacturing.

[D]

That's pretty sick.

[A]

I'm literally drinking chlorophyll while drawing Chlorophyll.

[D]

That's like inside and outside giving back.

[A]

Like, I'm like, I'm like planting two trees when I cut one.

[D]

You are the tree.

[B]

And chlorophyll supports gut health, blocks pollutant absorption, deodorizes from the inside out, and boosts antioxidants. Super easy to use. Delicious.

[D]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Get a daily detox with chlorophyll stick packs. Nature Sunshine is offering 20 off your first order plus free shipping. Go to nature sunshine.com and use code V I A L L at checkout. That's code V I A L [e-mail]

[B]

everybody go touch some grass.

[A]

I know you all want to get into last night's episode of Summer House and Ben from Watch what Crappin is here to help us do that. And I'm sure we'll also dive in to some of your other favorite Bravo topics. And then we have Liz McGraw from Real Housewives of Rhode Island. But before we do, don't forget the Vile Files plus is now ad free. You can get all your Vile Files episodes ad free on Vile Files plus your reality recap, deep dives, your pop culture roundups, and your update special. All available on Vial Files Plus. So just go to vile files.com to sign up and you'll be glad that you did. All right. Ben from Watch what Crappens is up next. Wayfair believes a home is personal. It is where life happens, style comes to life and memories are made. They are purpose built for home, offering every style, every space, for every budget. Only Wayfair has all things home from functional to just for fun. For every style and budget and one seamless experience, they simplify the process of expressing personal style. They truly have everything you could possibly imagine for your home. Both indoor outdoor spaces, big and small items. You can literally get trampolines and pizza ovens. You can get amazing dining tables. You can get office furniture, couches. It really is the one stop shop for everything in your home. We've even upgraded our office space through the help of Wayfair and then it's been an incredible experience. So it really doesn't matter what you are looking for. If you've been maybe you're this spring you are looking at a room in your house and thinking maybe this room just needs a little bit of an upgrade, a little bit of a refresh. Well, you can do that with the good people at Wayfair. They make that experience so fun and enjoyable. It's also depending on if for some reason you don't like your product. Their customer service is top notch and they make that experience wonderful and enjoyable and remove all the hassles and so that you can truly enjoy the upgrading experience that you have with whatever room that you're looking to upgrade today. So if you are looking for that amazing refresh this spring in your home, look to Wayfair fine furniture, decor and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to wayfair.com right now and shop all things home. That's wayfair.com to shop all things home. If you're a homeowner, whether you've owned your place forever or you're a first time buyer, you already know this stuff is going to break. It's not a matter of if. It's when. Many homeowners dealt with some kind of breakdown just in the last year. And without a home warranty, those fixes can cost thousands. That's why we're big fans of American Home Shield. At AHS Home warranty helps protect your wallet from covered home systems and appliance breakdowns. No matter how old the system or appliance, that H Vac system that came with your home and has trouble heating the house, American Home Shield can help. They can help fix parts of major home systems like H Vac, plumbing and electrical, plus kitchen and laundry appliances. And if a covered item can't be repaired, they'll replace it. Owning a home is stressful enough. American Home Shield helps make it a little easier. Listeners can get 20% off select plans today. Just visit ahs.com vialfiles to sign up. See ahs.com contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations, and exclusions. Ben, welcome to the show.

[F]

Thank you so much for having me here.

[A]

Well, thank you so much for coming. Obviously, you guys are a big hit with the Bravo community and we appreciate you coming. We'll have to have your other half here.

[F]

Yes, thank you. Yeah, he's in Austin right now, so I'm representing both of us, hopefully.

[A]

Well, I'm sure you will do just fine. And we're really, obviously, there's no bad time to have you guys, but this is really a big Bravo day.

[F]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Following the Summer House episode. And there's just, you know, right now, there's just a lot of great Bravo content going on these days. We got Rhode island popping off Atlanta, which we haven't really, really dove into this season, but we're hearing nothing but amazing things. Justin and Mary are locked in.

[D]

Oh, my God. Pinky's bankruptcy.

[F]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[A]

That.

[F]

This past episode. It's funny, the first, like, I haven't.

[D]

I haven't watched the newest episode.

[F]

Oh, okay. Well, the first three quarters were like a snooze fest. And then all of a sudden, the last quarter, I was like, oh, my God, it's the best show ever. It was amazing.

[E]

I loved it from the start. And Angela is so good.

[B]

I love Angela Triggered. It's like, it's. You just have to you can't argue with her.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, she's just so good.

[E]

Honestly, all of them, like, k. Michelle's story, like, everybody and, like, what they're sharing.

[F]

Yeah. The. The Mr. Clean, Papa Smurfree was Papa Smurf legendary.

[A]

You know what? I just thought of kind of a show idea maybe. This is stupid. I did Special Forces a couple years ago.

[F]

That show. Oh, yeah.

[A]

And I did not join the military,

[F]

but I applaud you, because every time I see just a commercial for that show, I'm, like, exhausted.

[A]

It's crazy. But part of. You know, part of that was, like, I never did. And I always wondered, like, man, that would, like. I wonder if I had what it took to, like, join the military and obviously give so much of yourself. And there is a part of me that, like, while I've done reality TV and I've done the Bachelor, when I watch Bravo, I'm like. It's such. I'm like, I wonder how I would move in this environment. And I kind of almost like, how could we come up with a show that would be, like, making. It's like, a meta experience of making a reality TV show. But you're not really, like, I just want to do one episode where I'm, like, integrated into, like, that.

[B]

Oh, it's Special Forces, but Bravo.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Special.

[F]

Special Housewives. And you're, like, for, like, one day, it's like, can you do Housewives boot camp? And you're like, I've got to be in glam for six hours today. That's, like, mission number one. I got to do that once. It's so funny. I was talking with Zach out there. I got to do that once with. Twice with Big Brother, because Big Brother used to have these media days where they would bring in, you know, various, like, bloggers and whatnot. This is like, 2010. So I was blogging, and you'd spend a day in the Big Brother house, and you do, like, all the competitions and everything. And, like, you do a week's worth of Big Brother in one day. So you got to feel like you were in Big Brother for a day, and then, like, you were popped out and back into real life. It was the best thing ever. They should do that for the Housewives.

[B]

They should do that for the house.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I'm signing up. And I'm crying immediately, but I'm signing up.

[D]

You get to go to one homeless not to.

[F]

Oh, yeah, perfect. Donate to a charity. Go to Beverly Beach.

[A]

Well, before we just dive into the meat of the episode, give Me. Your, like, where are you sitting with Summer House? Like, are you, like, part of the fan base? Is this, like, fuck these people or are we having fun with it? Where, you know, are we worried about Carl?

[F]

Well, we're always worried about Carl. We're always. Carl has, like, his Persona has now become like, delicate husk who always has to be, like, managed at all times. But yeah, I'm having fun with it. Summer should be fun. As one thing person famously said. I have loved Summer House since day one. I've been like, in the early days when people were like, who are all these vapid people? On Bravo, I was like, it's Bravo. That's like, where vapid people are. And I am. I love this scandal. I'm having so much fun with it. I, of course, Team Sierra, you know.

[C]

Of course.

[F]

Could you imagine if I was like, guys, team Amanda, right?

[D]

Didn't really do anything wrong.

[F]

Like, they're just thinking, well, I mean, the funny thing is that she was having such a good edit until this all happened, right? Because, like, her. Her relationship with Kyle falling apart for like eight years now, since it began. And like, you know, he had that one episode where Andy Cohen was like, guys, this is the worst episode ever for Kyle. And everyone's like, boo, Kyle. Boo Kyle. And now, like, literally, Kyle once again last night told Amanda, may I curse here?

[B]

Yes, you may.

[F]

He said, fuck you to Amanda again, Again. And like, you know, six weeks ago, we're all like, Kyle at this time, everyone's like, yeah, everyone's like, I think

[A]

she of deserved it. Maybe made.

[D]

He shouldn't have said like that, but he might have made.

[A]

Well, a couple things. I was thinking about watching last night's episode. Think about just this season alone. This season started with. With us or more of the Internet, really. Like that bed scene with Jesse and Sierra. And everyone was like, how dare Jesse pretend to ask to make out with her. And then we had Kyle, like, saying, you and we have, like, forgotten.

[F]

I know.

[A]

Like, that was like five seasons ago.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

All the, like, delicate seeds that were planted for our villainy, this just all went out the window. It was like, wait, we were supposed to be so much angry at different people at this point. Yeah, but that's actually the fun of it. Like, what makes this scandal special as well as scandal is like, it's one of those rare scandals that's unfolding while this season is unfolding. And so what we're seeing on screen is kind of telling a different narrative than what we're. What we have in Real time. And that's like the most fun ever. Because the truth is what's tricky as like a podcast or like what we do is we recap these shows is like, we sometimes have to say, okay, everyone, well, we are now going to criticize what we're seeing on tv, pretending we don't know about the scandal because it is messed up that Kyle said fuck you to Amanda regardless of everything happening. You know, so you always have to be like, okay, everyone, well, let's pretend like we don't know what's going on. But it is really like, it's so fun looking for all the breadcrumbs and like the Easter eggs of like, this potential.

[B]

Well, before we had him saying you at the table, we had Amanda at beach day.

[F]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And that talking to me about Sierra and Wes, she would be the happiest person on the planet.

[D]

I wrote some of those lines down. Even if they got back together, happy literally would make me the happiest person in the whole entire world. The happiest. But he needs to be fucking ready. It's him. I'm skeptical. I'm very weary of him.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

She's like, you know what?

[C]

Let me in a little bucket hat and sunglasses.

[A]

Let me test drive them for you just to make sure it's safe to you to get in.

[F]

Let's make sure. Okay. I wouldn't want you to wind up with the wrong person. That was the craziest scene.

[D]

She said the. I would die for that girl. The way I would cut west off in one second. If she looked at me, if she gave me one look, I'd be like, attacked.

[A]

You can't help you like, oh, that.

[D]

No, you wouldn't.

[F]

Like, that's either just like the worst foreshadowing of all time in her life, or she's being totally psychotic in that moment.

[A]

I gotta believe. Well, the only thing that's what. Because that last dinner scene was crazy. I'm sorry. Like, I'm overall, I'm not one of those, like, big, like, I don't think this was happening last summer. I'm going to take Amanda and West at face value. I know that's maybe dangerous to do, but it's not that crazy to think that there was clearly, obviously a close friendship and obviously, emotionally, there are probably moments they share where it got a little, like, funny and fuzzy, but I'm gonna believe him that no physical boundaries were crossed until when they claim whatever. But that dinner scene where Kyle says fuck you to Amanda and Wes gets up, moves his Chair sits behind Amanda.

[B]

I'm sorry. I don't like confrontation.

[A]

I don't like confrontation. And says, talk to.

[F]

Talk to me. Don't talk to her.

[A]

No, talk to Lindsay.

[F]

Talk to Lindsay. Don't talk to her.

[A]

Still his wife. It's just like, I'm all for. Like, I'm all for standing up to men who are speaking poorly for women. And even if it's your. You know, and even if it's someone else's wife. But the way he said it was like, you shouldn't talk to your. It should sound like it should. Dude, why are you talking to your wife like that?

[F]

It should be like, what everyone. All the other guys the table were doing was just like, bro, like, calm down.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[F]

But, like, the fact that he, like, pulled up that chair. Yeah, that was. I am like, you. I. I was like, I just don't believe that they are secretly sleeping together during this summer. Like, as much as what they're doing, I think has been, like, really shitty. I just can't believe that Amanda would go on camera and say these things if she's actively, like, having an affair with this guy. But there was something, like, last week, I don't. I forget what it was, but I was like. But that chair thing, I was like, this might move the needle for me.

[B]

I think it honestly just goes to show why it was so easy for Amanda to fall into west bed or to make the decision that she made. It's showing us just how much he was really her, like, rock and her safe place. And he had her back when no one else really did. I mean, the other guys, like, it kind of took a minute. Finally, when he starts, like, freaking out, Carl stands up and he tells him to get out. But, like, KJ didn't say anything. Ben didn't really say anything. Nothing. Jesse was, I mean, I think the most silent.

[F]

But, like, Jesse started it, too, by the way.

[B]

He honestly did.

[F]

He was the one who's like, hey, Kyle, tell us about your DJ gig. The thing is that it was so out of character for west.

[B]

Totally.

[F]

And, like, they tried to set it up earlier in the summer when Kyle and Amanda had their first, like, that other fight where he said, you and west said this thing about, like. Like, I don't like to be confrontational, but, like, when it's something like this, like, I do, like, draw, like, a line in the sand. I was like. Even at that time, I was like, what? Where did this come from? From West.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But he's even delivering it in, like, this Me kind of like. I don't know, just like, feelings are hard, and I'm just like.

[F]

It's like, really hard and, like. And so then it was like that the sitting behind her was, like, really weird. But I do think at the very least, this is like. It's. It's their. Their relationship has to be also, if it. If they weren't. They weren't banging at this point, like, it had to been tied to the way he was defending her in this moment.

[D]

It definitely seemed. It seemed like it was already at least a little bit emotional to me at this point, because there's that scene where it was before dinner and when they're getting ready and stuff, and Amanda, like, pokes her head to Weston Jesse's room, and then they're like.

[B]

They have.

[A]

They have a thing like.

[D]

I'm like, that's chemistry. That's flirty. That doesn't mean they acted on it at all. But it was definitely there and it was. They were leaning into it.

[A]

But. But.

[D]

And then she walks by Kyle later.

[A]

Nothing but emotional affairs are, to some people, more damaging than physical. And when you assume that there is at least something emotionally going on. One, Amanda's married, so it just kind of fucked up, right? And you're in a house, and then you. Then the beginning of the dinner scene. This. You know, what do you. What are you grateful for what you lost? Cira is in love with this man. It is so obvious. She's just like, the way she is just melting now that she can say we're friends again, that she can let her guard down, that she has a lot, the most. And so, like, this is like. This is not like us being like some sort of, like, relationship spiritual, like, mediums that we can read a room where. No, like, it is.

[D]

It's so obvious. You can tell when someone's in love with someone and when someone wants to

[A]

someone and she's talking about how. What friendship. Like, again, this is. I've never. She's been so articulate about and so clear about, like, I want to fall. I want to have a friend. I want to fall in love with them, and I want to do it that way. That's the path I want to go. And this is like the path that her and west are on. And he just pretends that's not what is happening.

[F]

Yeah, well. And you already see him in the episode already pulling back a little bit. He's like, well, I mean, we're just like, friends or whatever. And I just.

[A]

Oh, when he goes, kj oh, when he goes, oh, Wes. Jesse goes, well, Wes has a new best friend, or back to being friends. And then Wes is like, you mean kj? Knowing that he was referencing Sierra. And it's like, you're already pulling back, bro.

[F]

Yeah, already. I. I just. It's. I think what's. What's so interesting about this scandal? It's like. And what makes it different from Scandal is that, like, with Scandal, it was just, like, so big and so shocking, and like, we. These are people we've been with for, like, years, and we thought we had figured out everything that was left to be figured out on that show, and then, like, boom, it wasn't. And they were just, like, watching it all unfold and. But I also feel like when we saw Scandal Vault, like, we knew really everything. It was like it was all out in the open when they got together and. And there was some debate, like, oh, they were dipping out. Were they dipping out? Were they not dipping out? But here, it's kind of like, we know information. We know all the information, so we feel like there's still stuff to, like, dig into. And this stuff here, it's like, when did it start? Did it really start? When did the emotion. Emotional affair start? Like, how could they do this? And, like, there's still so many questions, and we're, like, looking under every single rock. It's so fun.

[A]

Yeah. Well, we had Tom sports on yesterday, and he had just hung out with Carl and Kyle.

[F]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And we asked him, if you're not defending the way Kyle has spoken to Amanda, we want to make that clear. But. And then this was before we watched the dinner scene. Is there a world, Tom, where Kyle has been defending Amanda in ways that we haven't really even tried to look or appreciate? And Tom was clear to say, yeah, I think so.

[F]

And that Kyle has been defending, but

[A]

protecting, taking the heat, you know, again, this is not in any way justifying the fuck you. But, like, watching last night's dinner scene, you saw a man who, like, I don't. First of all, didn't seem that drunk.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, because other times Kyle's up and it's like, okay, good. Not again, not excusing it, but, like, okay, he's up. This seemed like a man who was just pushed to his limits and just got finally fucking fed up with the way he has been hired. Almost like, to swallow some things that he would otherwise, like, just take.

[F]

Right.

[A]

And he's tired of it. And I can't help but wonder if, like, just watching west behind and like, the gang up where it just felt

[F]

like, yeah, but to be fair, Kyle does this every season as well. Like, every season it's like, guys, come on. I'm doing so much right now. And he, like, loses his mind, whether he's drunk or not. But. Well, I will say, like, yeah, I. I think it was really shitty that he said you to Amanda. I thought it was really, really shitty. And I think that, like, Lindsay was hammering him on things that weren't necessarily, necessarily wrong. Like, he should be having these conversations with Amanda. That being said, Amanda seemed to know about this whole Vegas thing anyway, so, like, there were conversations. But I do think that, like, it is frustrating. Cause it is like your. Your relationship is hanging on by a thread. And now you're, like, having to have, like, this whole conversation in front of everyone at this dinner.

[B]

I mean, that very much gave to me. Two professionals giving us a last dinner scene.

[F]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, Lindsay was clocked in. That was, like, obvious from the start when she, you know, gave Carl his shit. And they were like, oh, she's on one tonight.

[C]

She was great.

[B]

Two years ago, like, they were like, she. Yeah, like, here she. I mean, I think that was the two of them serving us up a scene. I think the fuck you to Amanda is so just, like, natural for him that it just, like, slips out. But I do. I mean, I think we had the. The scene a few episodes back where he, like, comes into the apartment and he's like, so I think I'm going to get this manager that seemed like the first time she had heard about it. And he had already clearly had, like, some meetings and some phone calls, and he had been talking and she was like, oh, so you're planning on doing this? Like, this is gonna be your career.

[F]

Yeah. I think it's, like, very clear. This was not a good marriage. This is not. This was not a good relationship. It was never built really on. I don't know what it was built on. It just seemed like proximity at a certain point. And they just were, like, had, like a couple episodes.

[A]

Nothing. It was built on.

[F]

Yeah. I mean, when she said that, that was crazy. When she was like, where was the part about you guys falling in love? It's like there wasn't really. They just. She was. They were like, hooking up, and then they just. I think they just sort of got into, like, this rut of, like, we just hooked up. Yeah. And then I guess we're in a relationship.

[A]

You know, I empathized with Kyle when. How do you go to couples therapy? And then have Amanda download that to Sierra and then Sierra. I don't know if I wouldn't want to separate.

[F]

Huh.

[A]

Like, if I. If I. I would. I would have received that poorly if I was struggling with my wife.

[F]

We've just started. We just started this step. It was so hard for us to get to this step.

[A]

And our mutual friend, who at the time is more friends with my wife, comes and suggests, like, hey, by the way, your. Your wife kind of wants to move out.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

How do you feel about.

[F]

Sarah's not wrong, by the way. I mean, I think Sarah's right. They do need to separate, clearly. But I can understand how, like, if. If you've just finally gotten it, gotten into therapy, you're like, wait, let's let this process work first before we, before we do that. Like, I could understand how that would be upsetting to Kyle. But, like, the thing is this, that this relationship has expired. It had expired a long time ago. And I think that truthfully, Amanda never was just never able to get past, nor should was she under any obligation to get past the cheating that happened several seasons ago.

[B]

And it's clear that she's never felt like he hasn't stopped cheating on her. You know, like, she's like, there's rumors constantly about you. And like, I don't know.

[F]

Yeah, she's checked out.

[A]

She ends up falling asleep at some stranger's house till six in the morning.

[F]

Oh, that was. Oh, yeah. Because that happened after our show. So we had.

[B]

Oh,

[F]

one of my prides and joys. We do a show every year. We call it the Crappies. And it's like our award show and we give out, you know, awards for Bravo, et cetera. And we do it, we alternate between LA and New York. So last year we did it in New York and Kyle came and he was drunk, and then he was like. He came to our after party and he. He just was drunk and we're like, okay, bye, everyone. And he stayed there and then next thing you know, he wound up, like, passed out on someone's sofa because of our show. But apparently it actually really was like a purely, like nothing happened. Apparently there was like a bunch of people there.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And, yeah, I don't doubt that.

[F]

Yeah. But it just has, like, a bad look. You don't want to hear that.

[D]

Yeah. It's like, I don't even know if Kyle absolutely was cons, like, consistently cheating on Amanda, but I think for Amanda, it was more just like, I don't like how like, she.

[A]

I don't Trust your behavior when you're drinking.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

There hasn't been enough of, like, like, like, like that time for, of, like, stability to be like, okay, I think everything is. Is good. But, like, yes. I have to say I am deeply honored that I feel like, in some indirect way affected the summer house timeline.

[D]

Yeah. How do you feel?

[B]

And you deserve a crowd.

[F]

Thank you. I feel like I just basically, like, earned my own show on Bravo 100

[B]

west was just on his podcast talking about the leaks from the reunion.

[A]

He was just like, you know, I've heard a lot of people and it's a long way to go. And, like, the reunion is kind of a first step in, like, a healing process. And reunions aren't easy, but it also, like, is a.

[F]

It's the usual.

[A]

It was just all like a bunch of, like, again, like, therapy.

[F]

It's like, it's somewhere between, like, therapy speak and, like, meme speak. And it's just easy words that sound like you're being thoughtful and introspective that really just sort of don't mean anything at all.

[A]

Yeah. And it sounds like Wes's plan is really just let time pass.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

And kind of wear people down.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

And then still be his kind of charming, kind of affable self, where it's like, that's good.

[F]

And that's what will happen. And he'll wind up going on like, the Traders or something like that. He'll go on something and he will wind up out of the doghouse. Like, Sandoval wound up out of the doghouse, where people say, well, you know, what he did was really shitty. But, like, he was so funny on the traitors. And then all of a sudden it's like, well, we kind of like Sandoval again. It's so.

[A]

Which, I'll be honest, I'm kind of okay with the idea that we watch these shows and we love the drama. I don't want to be, like, canceling anyone for, like, don't even really exist, but making bad decisions and things like that. It's just like, they're going to get the heat and they might lose some. You know.

[F]

You know what it is? I want to welcome people back because I decided that you're welcome back, not because you manipulated me back.

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

You know, like, like, don't do your. Don't do your. Like, you're like, well, it's gonna be like a healing process. And we're like, well, learning and growing together. Like, no, just like, be quiet and we will tell you what you're About.

[A]

But, like, with Tom and Wes, to me, it's just more like Wes is never. I mean, again, I don't take it that seriously. And I've known Wes in person. I think he's a nice guy. But the way we talk about him on the show, it's just more like, now we know who west is. And I don't think, you know, like, we know who Tom. Like, we've kind of always known Tom, but now we really know Tom. Yes, but it's kind of like, yeah, just maybe. Maybe you're not going to introduce him to, like, your girlfriend. Not your girlfriend, but, like, your sister or whatever. But, like, you. You're less mad at him, but you. You clearly know who he is now, right? I don't think, like, I don't think Wes is going to change. Like, I just.

[F]

Has he accepted who he is, though? That's the thing.

[D]

Well, on his podcast, he did say he finally talked about the reunion and, like, referenced the leaks and stuff, and he said it was a dark reunion. He said you don't often get that much feedback on how your actions impact other people. There's a shock to your system from it. But the only thing I can do from this is learn and try to be better. And then he said,

[A]

for example, if he doesn't go on the reunion and doesn't say. After watching back this season, I realized, Sierra, like, what you were communicating to me, and I just completely ignored that and I was dismissive of your feelings and, like, I need him to name it and actually hear that he understands it. But. But saying something like a platitude or something cliche like, clearly, I've hurt people.

[F]

It's all on the heels of that conversation he just had with Sierra by the fairy dog or wherever they were. It's like, yeah, they have, like, this nice. Yeah, they have this, like, what seems like a really nice conversation. And had this scandal never surfaced, we would have been like, wow, breakthrough.

[D]

I would have been, like, number one. Weston. Sierra.

[F]

Yeah, we all would have been like, this is great. They're finally communicating you. She can finally let her guard down. He can finally, like, acknowledge, like, how he hurt her. We can all move on. But so, like, how do you have that conversation that seems to be, like, the result of a lot of personal work and thought? And then you do this. You know, it's just. It's. That's why it's, like, not making any sense.

[D]

West isn't an evil person, but it's just, like, you obviously know better. I think that's the thing. It's like you do seem emotionally intelligent and like you do have like a good heart and it's just like, why are you.

[A]

He's moving like an 18 year old man with the emotional intelligence of a 30 year old man. But like conveniently like leaning into the 18 year old man.

[F]

I'm not sure he's emotionally intelligent, honestly.

[D]

You don't think so?

[F]

I don't.

[D]

You think he knows how to feel?

[F]

I think he. I think he has picked up like the signals being and like he knows how to regurgitate it but he hasn't quite caught up with what they mean because honestly, I was watching the clip of KJ on watch what happens live last night. Did you see this?

[B]

Yes.

[F]

And he read this text message that Wes had sent him right after the reunion and he hadn't read it yet and he read it on the air and like it was, it was a nice text actually. Yeah, you know, it was thoughtful but KJ was like really affected by it and I kind of feel like west is trying to be the person that KJ is. Like KJ feels things and he's like moved by people etc and I think Wes is trying to present like that, but he actually isn't that.

[D]

Yeah, astute read.

[F]

And I love this podcast.

[B]

In the text he sent to kj, he said, I wanted to thank you for your articulation and kindness yesterday. Despite being hurt. I have been off socials and I think I lost touch with how much hurt there was. I am incredibly sorry I'm sending you blah, blah.

[A]

But like, all right.

[F]

But like how do you lose touch with how much hurt there was?

[B]

I think he's been pretty socialist.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You've been posting your friends on social

[D]

media, you've been on Instagram stories.

[B]

Unless you've just been like in a bar. Here's a picture of my friends post.

[A]

Get off like, but also like, how

[F]

do you not know how much hurt that you've caused amongst your friend group? Doesn't matter with social media.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

These are your friends. You should know them and know what would hurt them. Like.

[A]

Yeah, I just don't get how after the whole like Sierra and West scene at the dock, how and all Sierra and the whole group saw it as this is the, maybe the start of them rekindling this romance.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

Sierra made this very clear. I mean it's just like so obvious and he just pretends that they're. She's one of the bros. Well, but what was.

[F]

What's so weird is that he like is saying, I think I, I'm in love with her or something like that. He definitely like indicates that he has romantic feelings too. So it's not like a one sided thing, but it's almost like the moment that they rekindle, he starts to walk that back a little bit. And that's just why it's like so shitty that, you know, of all the people he would get with Amanda, of all the people she would get with west. It's just like you like Ciara has been so like outspoken about how these, these things affect her and you would just think for the sake of your friend that you're now on camera sitting in the floppy beach hat talking about how you would never want to hurt her heart. Gotta protect her heart and you don't want west to be in it and then slink away and you say all these things, but then you're gonna be doing something that you know is gonna be so hurtful to her.

[A]

That's what's crazy because now after like watching it back in hindsight, knowing what happened is, you know, because at first you're watching, it's just like, you know, I gotta protect Cyr. It's almost like you're saying she can't protect herself. And now it really just feels like a rip on Sierra. Like she's not capable. It's actually handling a man like Wes. So I'll go ahead and do it. It's like so weird.

[F]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's condescending.

[F]

It's like performative. Like I am gonna have her back. You know, my, my friend Ray Sonny, who is great, she's hilarious. She, she was on a show recently, I think she was on Bitch Sesh and she basically made a really great point which was are we're Amanda and Sierra best friends or were they just two people who were friends with Paige? I'm like, that is like that. I think that's, that's the crux of it. I don't think they really had a friendship like that.

[A]

There's that And I also like, I kind of referenced this too. I just this a TV show for all these people and I think they all become friends and I think there is a bond that you know, when you do something as crazy as these shows, when you do something extraordinary with a few group of people, there's, there's only a few group of people you can bond with. And, and, and there's this an organic chemistry you feel with all those people. But to that point there are also a lot of people you wouldn't be friends with or with outside of that. That extraordinary environment that you've all agreed to put yourself in. And I think in those lanes, things can get really gray and muddy.

[F]

I also think, like, why didn't Amanda just, like, give a good go at trying to be single for a little bit? You know, literally, like, what? Like, why are you jumping to another guy?

[B]

I honestly think that they. And I've said this before, I don't think they ever planned on this being a thing. Like, I think they were gonna just hook up, hang out. He clearly had his own roster. Maybe she was starting to build hers. But then they were forced quotes.

[A]

I think it's at least. And I've referenced this, and I don't know if people agree or buy it, but I. You know, talking to other women friends, I know in reality tv, I. I think if you're, like, a single guy in reality TV, your DMs are open, you're pretty comfortable sliding, you're out in the bar. It's like, if you're a. A woman on reality tv, generally, like, that's a pretty great lane in terms of influencing. You have these opportunities. Your audience is women. Yeah, everyone's audience is women. Right? And so, like, you're connecting with your audience different ways. A lot of the opportunities for men are the bar appearances, the going out, because the women fans want to meet the men. Right? And so, like, I think in that kind of space, there's a lot of opportunities for the reality TV men to go out and engage with women and meet them and hook up. And I think it's different for women because, one, the fans are women, and I think for the men, like, they're, you know, to go on, like, a dating app. App for the first time is. I think it's scary for anyone. I mean, it's also scary for, like, a public figure, knowing that people are going to screenshot and judge and critique and you feel less safe. And I just, you know, I think in that sense, that's why it kind of makes sense where it was maybe very intimidating for Amanda to kind of go out there and date As a public figure, recently divorced.

[F]

I mean, maybe I just kind of also feel like. I mean, just in general, I can't stand when someone's like, I've never been single and I'm finally gonna be single. And you're like, yes, we're gonna go out. We're gonna go out. And then, like, two days later, it's like, I actually met this guy, and

[B]

he's like, really cool.

[F]

I'm like, okay, yeah, okay, I'll see you in 10 more years. Like, I can't stand that.

[A]

But it happens all the time, though.

[F]

It happens all the time. So I'm like projecting that onto Amanda. I was like, you were supposed to be single. But she, like. But even with that, I don't know, like, cross pollinate with a different show or something. Like, go for a Tom Schwartz or go for, I don't know, whoever's around. Like, whoever's.

[E]

There's.

[F]

There's people around.

[A]

At least give it like a week. Yeah, at least give it like sometime there's somewhat.

[F]

Like, wouldn't it would have been fun if she went One of the, One of the kids from like, Southern hospitality, right? Like, that'd be kind of fun.

[A]

Moving on from Wes and Amanda still staying on Summer House. I just thought it was nuts when Ben was talking about his relationship and Jesse's like, so are you guys boyfriend and girlfriend yet? I'm like, what? What? You last couple, you were taking her off. I thought you guys were married. And I'm like, what is going on with dating people these days?

[B]

And then he's like, he's waiting to tell her that he loves her before

[A]

their boyfriend and girlfriend. Is that the new. I thought you. I thought you like someone and you're like, hey, do you want to date? And then you're like your boyfriend and girlfriend.

[D]

Boyfriend and girlfriend now means, like, I don't know how it happened. Boyfriend and girlfriend is like, basically saying that you intend to marry Mary.

[F]

That's crazy. Maybe it's different in Australia. I don't know.

[C]

Maybe it is different.

[D]

Maybe there's still normal there. I don't know.

[F]

I have to say, I don't much care for this Ben character. I don't know. I. I have not.

[A]

He's fallen flat.

[F]

He's. Let's not only see. Fallen flat. I just feel like there's, there's, there's something there that I'm just not. I'm not. Like, I didn't like the way he talked to Bailey when he confronted her about that joke. Like, was her joke. Like, maybe in poor taste, perhaps, but, like, I didn't like that joke.

[B]

Joke.

[F]

I mean, I'm sorry. I didn't like the way he talked to her. I didn't like the way he talked to Amanda when Amanda said something to Sabrina. I have actually not really loved the way he's talked to Sabrina, telling her to, like, get dressed or whatever. And like, I just feel like, there's something there that, like, it's rubbing me the wrong way. I. I can't put my finger on it, but I don't like it. And I think that, like, the fact that he and Sabrina keep on taking all these, like, videos of themselves kissing.

[B]

No, that is like, why.

[F]

Why do we. Why do they have, like, this collection of videos?

[A]

Remind me of like, 20, like, 12, when Facebook was a thing. And then you would. That one couple would get together and just obnoxiously. Just post.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

About how in love they are and they're more in love than you.

[B]

But it is like.

[A]

And then that's kind of like that couple online.

[F]

Let's kiss. Wait, before we kiss, let's get the camera up. Okay. Now.

[B]

And then they have to tell Bravo. Like, if y' all want these, we have a lot of videos of us making out. Like, if you want to use them in the show.

[F]

They showed, like, a montage last night. A montage of them kissing with their selfies.

[A]

That's what I don't believe. I do not believe that relationship started after Ben was on the show.

[F]

Yeah, I think this was.

[B]

Yeah, they had a relationship before. Yeah.

[D]

I think he probably lied to.

[A]

But then they pretend he was single. When the season. When the season one was, wasn't he single?

[F]

His whole thing was that, like, she loved me, but then I got scared, so I broke it off. But then I have regrets. I'm like, I don't know. And then, you know, I couldn't stand. I couldn't stand how, like, if we're just going to take it on face value of what their relationship was, was. He's been broken up with her for, like, three months, and then he rekindles things. And after like, two or three days, he's like, hey, that's my Mrs. And you're like. Like, we're all of a sudden. We have to, like, now, like, be like, oh, they're like a special couple. When you've been broken up for all this time and, like, and you just

[B]

made out with Bailey and the spin the bottle and you're being weird with

[C]

a man

[F]

upset then up event and, like, he's like, I don't know how to flirt. I just don't know what to do. And then all of a sudden, Bachelor.

[A]

It was a good accent.

[F]

Thank you. Thank you. It transported us all to Sydney.

[D]

It did.

[F]

But I don't know. There's just something that feels like I don't trust it. I don't trust it.

[B]

Know what's going on with everyone kind of slightly coming for Dara, they're all kind of like, oh, she's in it for fame. KJ really likes her. Like, they're all kind of doing these press things and, and, like, coming for her.

[F]

Yeah, I don't know what that's about. Is it maybe because she came in via West?

[D]

West.

[F]

Is there, like, some west taint on her?

[C]

But

[F]

that's true, too. That's true.

[D]

Yeah. And also, isn't Dar. Aren't Dara and KJ still together?

[B]

Yeah, they are.

[F]

I feel, like, legit.

[D]

And everyone loves kj. What's the issue?

[F]

I don't know. I, I, she seems fine. She seems fine. I really just, like, don't know enough

[A]

about her, you know, I want to kind of give Jesse props. I, I'm kind of buying this kind of, hey, man, I'm approaching 30. I beat cancer. I was a little messy last season. I watched it back. I got a little embarrassed of myself. I don't know if I want to be this guy ala West Wilson, and I want to maybe be more intentional with my dating life. And, you know, he's giving back, and I'm kind of behind it.

[F]

I thought it was a nice moment that he had.

[A]

I don't know.

[F]

The thing is, this is. We've been burned by these shows so many times. Yeah, how many times? I mean, how many times does Carl come on here and be like, guys, it's Carl 6.0. And it's just like.

[B]

It's.

[F]

It's like that, like, all the guys on Bravo are always like, I'm growing up this. I'm growing up everyone. And then, like, I. I usually fall for it. So. Ronnie, my podcast partner, is much more cynical than I am. He's like, oh, fuck them all. They're all fake. But, like, I. I actually usually am, like, yeah, I think they are growing up. But for some reason, I'm like, like, I need more evidence. You know why? Because Wes really ruined it for him. Because I was believing that Wes was, Was. Was growing up. And, yeah, no, I don't think anymore

[A]

Jesse are that close of friends outside of Summer House.

[F]

They have, like, a weird rivalry. They, like, undermine each other in a way that's, like, sort of fascinating. It's a little bit of that going on. Like, every. All the stuff in the beginning of the season, we, like you said, we sort of forgot about it, but Jesse going after Sierra was kind of, like, a little weird. And then west sort of, like, launching a shadow campaign against Jesse and the

[B]

hair, and then him going to Jesse being like, yeah, everyone thought that was super weird for you.

[A]

Yeah, there's like some weird undermining, such mean girl behavior. Everyone thought that.

[D]

It's also completely. It just goes to show that like Wes, regardless of what conversation he was having with Ciara, and it goes to your point of him not actually being emotionally mature, which is just if that had happened with Ciara, Wes would not have moved with Ciara this season the way he would have if he actually had feelings for her. Because it's like Jesse just kind of like basically is treating her like an option, not as a person. And you have the opportunity to be like, no, Sierra is a person and we should not be speaking about her like this when she's not around. He didn't do that. He instead did his whole little shadow campaign thing, which in retrospect is just like sickening.

[F]

Well, it also goes to show like, where is he? Like, this is why it's also just stranger that he is willing to buck up for Amanda's honor, whereas with for Sierra's honor, he does not. He just sort of sits there quietly and is like, but I like her, you know, so I don't know. Like. So the whole thing with Jesse is that his actions are backing up what he's saying. There was no real indication that he was doing anything fuck boy E over the summer. So that is, that goes in his favor. But I just feel like like after the west thing I'm kind of like, let me see like another season or two and then I'll let

[A]

feel like his intentions are pure.

[B]

We didn't see him bring anybody home from the bars, you know, we didn't really did. Yeah.

[F]

I want that one girl.

[A]

Bravo. Really, you know, I know.

[B]

Oh, the one girl.

[A]

They, they really will like have their, you know, they, they put their cast through it. They certainly will. Will show their messy aspects of their life. But in ways like when you watch the show and you see Jesse and it says musician.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

You're just like, you can kind of be anything you want on these shows. You really, you can just be like, you know what guys? This season, you know what I want you guys to call me? Astronaut.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I, you know, because I'm gonna be an, I want to be an astronaut. And all you have to do is take a course. Maybe you don't even have to have. You just have to name it and they will put it right under your name.

[F]

You know, if he wants to release some mid tempo songs that would be perfect for a waiting room Then far be it for me to say, don't do it. You know, everyone's got to follow their dream.

[B]

It is perfect for a waiting room.

[D]

Follow your dreams.

[B]

Jesse's hollow moon switching gears a little bit. Are you watching Rhode Island?

[F]

Of course.

[B]

What are your thoughts?

[F]

I really like it a lot. Like, I feel like every episode it's getting better and better. Cuz I feel like you can really see the cast coming together and gelling and get like their chemistry is really improving.

[D]

Agreed.

[F]

And I love listening to their voices. I love the way that, like Alicia's voice just sort of trails off. She's like, you want a cracker?

[B]

I like her and these crackers kind of crazy.

[F]

I know. I love her pushing a cracker agenda. I feel like crackers are just a thing.

[C]

A fig Newton.

[D]

A fig newton. You gotta have a fig Newton.

[F]

That took me back to childhood. Cuz like during, during school, like snack, snack time, ziplock bag, remember, like breaking them in half and then you could put them back together and it's a miracle.

[D]

And it's like, that's what Rhode island can do for us. Rhode island can like, transport us back into those times.

[A]

I also feel like, for the rel, like, like Ashley, I feel like she's getting to know a lot of these women, but know you, you, you, they name it and you watch it where like the new Roni, it was almost like they immediately started pretending they all knew each other. And so it was like. But clear that they didn't. And now, and now with Rhode Island, I feel like you're, you're just. If there isn't like a prior existing relationship. You see, these women know that they have to be together and then figure each other out as they go. And it's fun to watch that.

[F]

Well, also, like, what, what, What Rhode island has that a new Roni doesn't have is that like, I think we're curious to find out about this world. You know, we're learning about things like pizza, chips and you know how like my mother's father worked at Superior Bakery and you know, like you're learning all these interesting things and backstories and you're hearing these voices and you're like, oh my God, like, I need to know more about this. Are they mob connected? What's happening? Whereas like New New York is like, hey, let's look at some people who work in PR and influencing. It's like, yeah, okay. Like, it's not like my curiosity isn't really peaked. Like if I, if I go to New York on a Real Housewives show. I want to be taken into the world of the Upper east side. I want to see, like, deluded, wealthy women who have no idea what's going on in the world.

[B]

When those really big ugly dogs, you know.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Like.

[F]

Like the Borzois.

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

And be like. Like, like, how are you? How are you existing? Because I feel like half these shows are like that. Like, how are. How. How do you live in the same world that I do? And so to watch, you know, like, Aaron and, like, go to the shop and get a coffee. I don't know. It's like, I'm not, like, inherently.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good point. You're not. You're not getting the culture from the city in which, like, you. You know, which is part of the.

[F]

Yeah, Bravo, I think, was trying to give us something fabulous. Like, look at these, like, she. Chic, fashionable women, which they are. But I don't think that there was anything, like, like, inherently interesting about this group of women.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I don't want them to be known. I really don't even want them to have an Instagram. Like, I want them to be older women on the Upper east side. Totally.

[F]

Or if they're going to be the fashionable set, I want them to be, like, fashionable and just, like, fabulous. Like Ladies of London. Ladies of London is the perfect example about that. Like, they come on and they're just. They are fashionable and they're getting drunk and they're calling each other psychotic cows. It's hilarious. They're not doing that much, but we just enjoy being in their presence. Whereas on, like, New Roni, it was just like. Yeah, I don't know. But. But with Rhode island, though, like, it's fun to go into their world.

[C]

And.

[B]

Yeah, we have a season one husband actively leaving, set to go to his mistress's house.

[F]

Exactly like that.

[B]

And then comes back.

[F]

Yeah.

[B]

To continue filming.

[D]

It does. It feels like old Roni, old jersey. Like, old. Like, even. Even just with, like, the way Atlanta use was just, like, so funny off the bat. It's like, yeah, they. Your casting really popped off. Like, give me Alicia and her dolls.

[F]

Yes.

[D]

Like, I want more of that.

[F]

And it feels. It doesn't feel like it's put on for camera. Like, these are women who have, like, like, decades old friendships, and that always comes through. Isn't it, like, amazing with these shows, what the audience can always pick up on? Like, when. When something is, like, forced, we always feel it. Like, if it's not authentic and you see that on Summer house. You see when the house has a good chemistry versus when it doesn't have a good chemistry, you're like, mm, this isn't really working. And it's like that intangible thing, but we always feel it, we always pick up on it, you know?

[A]

Well, I mean, they're not. They're not actors, you know, And I think that's what it is.

[B]

And I think it's kind of like when this most recent episode of Rhode island when Liz, you know, they're kind of flirting with like, the butlers or whatever, and Liz is like, I'm going inside. Like, I'm not flirting with these 20 year old. And Ashley's like, I'm gonna go check on Liz. And then she's like, I know you, like, probably don't really like me. And she's like, no, no, no. I think you're so sweet, like. And it's. That is clear that that's. They don't know each other, but they're getting to know each other. And, like, I like to see that unfold.

[F]

Yeah. I was gonna say, by the way, I really like that falsetto you did for Liz, because we know it really sounded like.

[A]

No, no, no, it's okay.

[C]

No, no, no. I like you.

[A]

Yeah, they do do scenes, you know, like, some of this stuff isn't like, truly organic, but it always has to be rooted in truth, you know, it can't just be something completely made up. They have to be, you know, and that's the best reality tv. It's just like in a real world, if there's no cameras, we might let it go, we might remain calm, we might take this offline, but there's still a disconnect and there's still something we're both pissed about. But since we're on tv, we'll lean the fuck in and as long, you know. So it's gotta be rooted in truth as opp. To like, just pretending you care about something you honestly don't.

[F]

Yeah. And I think that's like with. With new Roni, like, there's something that's missing. Like, there was some cast chemistry that was a little bit better in the second season, but, like, there just was like, something was not. Was not working there. And I don't know what it was because it seemed like now they've been working together for years, they should know each other a little bit more. But it did not come together. And like, God, I really hope they get it right this time.

[A]

Time.

[F]

I really do.

[D]

Jenna Lyons was absolutely fabulous. And awesome to see on Bravo. But it was like, okay, I want Jenna Lyons to host Project Runway. Not necessarily be.

[F]

She had her own show on hbo. That was great.

[D]

Yeah, that was great.

[F]

All focus on her weirdness.

[D]

Yeah. And I was like, you don't, you're not the kind of person that's gonna, like, really care if someone didn't have past apps at a party.

[F]

Right.

[D]

Like, you're gonna pretend, but then you also don't.

[F]

Like, like, but also sometimes, like, I, maybe you have a good perspective on this. Having been in reality tv, that I, I always believe that when people start self producing, it, like, is a stink that infects the whole show. Because it's like, when one person does it, then I think it would make someone say, well, why should I put everything out there if they are holding stuff back? So I'm going to do a little bit. And I feel like you just can, you can sense it and you can feel it. And I, I, I look at Real Housewives of Dubai, and I look at season one, which I thought was so boring, and then season two, which I actually thought was really good. And I felt like in season two, they got the memo, like, oh, we have to actually, like, throw ourselves into this show more.

[A]

Yeah, no, that does happen. You know, and you feel it on the other end. Like, sometimes, like, it's like you were reading Reddit, you know, like, you, yeah,

[F]

you can just tell, you know?

[A]

Yeah. And so it's like, it feels really weird and icky when you're a part of that. And you almost like, you'll disconnect if you think someone's performing.

[F]

Right.

[A]

And that does that. That, that definitely happens. And it ruins the vibe.

[F]

Yeah. And then all of a sudden, you're sitting through endless scenes of like, hey, guys, let's play a game at dinner. Like, oh, my God, True truths and a lie again. You know, and it's like.

[A]

Well, because then, you know, you just also. I think as a reality TV star, it kind of makes you feel a little unsafe because again, if, if it's, if it's rooted in truth, Ulysses can come in with, like a perspective of the situation. If it's rooted in. I'm doing what I think my fans want me to do, or I'm responding to my critics and I'm gonna move differently and I'm gonna. Or I'm gonna call you up because I think the fans don't, like, you know, whatever it is. You're like, I don't. This is, this is a rogue person.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

And I on, you know what? I don't want to fuck with them because it's. They're. They're. I'm not talking to them. We've let the Internet inside this.

[F]

Right.

[A]

This house, this scene, this, you know, show. And that's a gross feeling.

[F]

Yeah. It's all about like authenticity. And I think viewers always pick up on authenticity. Yeah. You know, that's why we're so mad at the scandal too. Like cuz.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

Cuz west is. Is hitting all these notes of being an authentic person and then we're like, oh, you are not authentic at all. You've actually been lying to us.

[D]

You're performing authenticity.

[F]

Yeah, totally. Yeah.

[A]

Ben, so much fun, man.

[F]

Thank you so much for having me on here. This is great.

[A]

Yeah. So much fun. Please come back with Ronnie. Absolutely love talking this stuff.

[F]

Likewise. Thanks for having me on.

[A]

Tell them about your show.

[F]

Yeah, go check us out. Our show's called Watch what crap. It's. We're on every single day. We, we cover every single Bravo show and even other non Bravo shows. Like we will randomly do like House of the Dragon and so, you know, we go all over the place and we're doing a cabaret in New York City in June because that's what you do in the world of Bravo. So come join us there at. Our Tickets are at watchwithcrappins.com all right,

[A]

we'll check it out. Thank you for coming. Up next, we have Liz McGraw from Real Housewives of Rhode island talking about all things things Housewives of Rhode island, including everything going on with Rula, Joe, Ellen, the entire cast. It's a great conversation with Liz and it is. Up next.

[B]

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[B]

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[A]

Liz, welcome to the show.

[C]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

So excited to have you. We are just such big fans of you and really honestly, the entire cast, it's really just obviously people know Ashley's one of my best friends, her and Jared and so I was always going to watch but like with any new season, you never really know how fans are going to receive it. And it's been so fun to just be like you guys just really came out of Gates strong and it's really just exciting to see and, and I just gotta say, like, the entire cast is awesome. Like it really just, it's so. I think it's really hard on these shows to get invested in all these characters as quickly as we have with all of you ladies, you know, and there's, you know, many of fans of this show are fans of other franchise and it just takes a while. So first of all, we just love you. But why do you feel like this cast of women has been so kind of like well received and why do you feel like it's working so well this early?

[C]

You know, I think partly because it's just, it's such a unique place. It's not a place that's ever been really kind of discovered on that type of forum before. And I think that being first season cast, I think, you know, everyone was really concerned about digging in, you know, and we gave it and then some.

[A]

Yeah, it feels like you're kind of seen as more like, as like almost like the matriarch of the group, like the dinosaur.

[C]

That's me, the dinosaur. No, but I do feel that way, you know, I mean, there's such disparity in age and sometimes like, you know, I'm up there on an island. So I wasn't really sure coming into it how that was going to know, look or be portrayed. I still don't. I'm still a little nervous about that.

[B]

I think we saw it in this most recent episode, you know, with. You were like, I am not flirting with a 20 something year old butler. I'm gonna go lay down in my bed. And it was like, honestly, I'm like relatable.

[D]

Yeah, same.

[C]

What am I doing here? Am I gonna splash around in a thong and pretend to like, you know, wanna like, like hang out with these guys? Like, it just. Yeah, it was kind of like, where do I belong? Why am I here? I felt a little bit.

[B]

Well, I do think you definitely belong and we love that you're here. You bring such, such a different vibe, I feel like, to the cast that is very much needed. Where do you. I mean, obviously in this most recent episode, we watched the latest piece of evidence roll it against Brian, which was giving very much like newspaper, today's date. The car, I mean, with the time and date on it. They were very, they were like, you were not about to call our bluff on this. Why do you feel like the mistress is so like down with hell bent? Yeah.

[C]

Isn't that crazy? I don't, I don't know. And like, I don't. It's so uncomfortable because, you know, there's so much white knuckling and Joellen is so intent on not, you know, on making sure she's right in all of it. It's. Yeah, it's uncomfortable. And it's like you can't, you can't deny it after seeing this stuff, you know, so it's like.

[A]

Yeah. And it's always interesting. Cause it seems like, you know, at first it was, you know, Joe Ellen kind of seemed to be aware of this. And then obviously it was more like this is, you know, kind of like, stay out of it. It's none of your business, Jo Ellen, but if you can prove it, go ahead and do it. And do you feel like, you know, it's one of those things where, like, I guess now that she's gotten this evidence, it's almost kind of justified everything before that, you know, in a way, or do you feel like there's a world in which maybe Joe Ellen got a little Too nosy and stuck her nose, and we're something that maybe didn't belong, and maybe even though she found the video, are you guys grappling with, like, the kosher ness of it all? Here's the thing.

[C]

Rhode island is a ridiculously small state, so this is something that we had heard about a really long time before even filming, you know, so it was something we all kind of. You know, it was going on for a while. Joellen. Yeah, she. She was motivated to kind of get her heels in there and dig into it, you know? So that's why when you see us, like, oh, Joellen's messy. Joellen's messy. However, what she was saying wasn't untrue, you know? So, I mean, me being the female recipient of that information, I would be like, oh, my God, thank you, guys. Help me. You know what I mean? Let's.

[B]

Let's.

[C]

Let's figure this out. Or. I would be. If I was. If I were too proud to put it on display on tv, I would probably not ask for evidence. You know, I would be like, this is my business. How I deal with it is how I will deal with it. If I want to include you, I will. But in the meantime, it's none of your business. So it was just uncomfortable, you know, Reala stiff arming with the pride and Joellen digging it was, you know, it was. It made for a great seesaw.

[A]

Yeah. Do you feel like Rula was. You know, you mentioned it's a small state. You know, rumors are flying. Do you feel like there's a world in which she's heard this rumor as well, and maybe she was just in denial about it?

[C]

Yeah. So, like. Like I said, it had been going on for some time, and she did. And, like, I called her, you know, when, you know, Joellen was really kind of into it. And when Joellen, like, found that wild thing, she found some photos online from the mistress, and this was, like, probably in December, so six or seven months before we filmed. So it had been going on for a while. She. There's no way. Rula didn't know to what extent. I'm not sure. You know, I wanted her to know. I didn't want her to walk into all of this looking like the fool, because that would be my biggest fear. You know, everyone knows something, and I don't. But again, I would be. I would know before any of these girls. You know, I would know.

[A]

I. As a. Just a fan, I'm always shocked when. Whenever you see it, but especially in our first season, it's more like what made Bryant not think that this would come out, being a part of this franchise, knowing that this franchise is all about rumors, receipts, and timelines and all those things. And, like, did he. Was it just kind of a hubris on his part and just too much, or is it ignorance, not really realizing what this. What this show's about? It just kind of blows my mind that he was doing this and was like, yeah, no, I'll. I'll be a. I'll be a housewife

[B]

husband and doing it well, filming.

[C]

Right. And we discussed this. My husband and I discuss this all the time. Like, what in the. What in the. What was he thinking? What. What was he possibly thinking? I mean, does he not know what the shows are about or how they're going to spin it? Or is he. Does he not care? You know, that It's. Honestly, guys, it's. Even to me, and I'm in it. It's a mystery. I really don't know. I don't know. And it just got worse and worse and worse. And when you see me, like, kind of chasing him, like, come on, let's go for a walk. And then the clown music started playing. It took me all the way out. It just took me out. Like, it is so uncomfortable, even for him. It's like, oh, you're such a schmuck. But I'm still, like, uncomfortable for you, you know?

[A]

Like, yeah, it's crazy.

[C]

I don't know. It was wild. It was just.

[A]

I know. I imagine we. You know, we can't give too much away. I'm sure a lot will be revealed as this season goes out, but I guess. Do you think Rula will. When this. When all the dust settles? Do you predict that she will be better for it from, like, her perspective? And do you see a light at the end of the tunnel?

[C]

I mean, you know, they say that all the hardships we go through, we only grow from, you know, but I don't know. I don't know. Like, Rula is a super hard read, and she's so unlike myself that it's kind of a conundrum for me every time. I just. I never really fully get where they're coming from, either one of them. I don't know. I mean, you know, she's. For all intents and purposes, she seems really happy, you know? What did she say?

[A]

She.

[C]

She had some quote that he, like, atoned for his sins or something. I don't. I truly. I don't know. Like, it's wild. I don't know what's gonna happen today.

[F]

Wow.

[B]

Do you think she was actually sick and that's why she didn't come to the trip?

[A]

I mean, she said she couldn't see, I wasn't there.

[C]

I can't say for sure. I mean, if I had to guess, no, she may have been feeling emotionally sick or mentally sick, I don't know. And I had sent her a text message and for some reason that entire trip I had no service on my phone. And I only found out like after I got home. It never went through. Unfortunately.

[D]

I have kind of like shifting gears a little bit from Rula. The boat culture of Rhode island is very, very fascinating to me. I'm from Florida, so boat culture is very like go get drunk at a sandbar. And I'm wondering what, like the Rhode island version, like, what's the perfect boat day for you?

[C]

Oh, we do that too.

[D]

Perfect.

[C]

So yeah, my husband being a fisherman would take, you know, those long sport fishing trips. But, but a boat day for us would be just like, you know, filling the boat up, getting the captain and just going off Block Island, Newport, Nantucket and just going off and usually for a few days at a time, if not weeks.

[D]

Oh, a few days. Wow.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get it, we'll get dockage and we'll just go and we'll meet friends, people come and stay on the boat. We'll have nice dinners.

[D]

It sounds wonderful.

[B]

What advice did Dolores give you before you started filming?

[C]

I get this question a lot. Dolores never really dug into like the nitty gritty of how the process works for me. She didn't give me a lot of pitfalls and watch out for this and this might happen and do this. I think that coming into it she mostly just said, you're fine, just be yourself. I had a lot of questions, but her main, you know, thing to me was just be yourself. Always be yourself.

[A]

Well, looking back, do you feel like that was good advice? Because, you know, I honestly appreciate her almost not telling you too much because I think sometimes you almost have to kind of enter into this kind of world, kind of more open minded and to kind of be, you know, kind of don't do this and don't do that. You almost, you don't want to self edit it, you know, you don't want to produce yourself and things like that. And I wonder if maybe, maybe Dolores was mindful of that, that she trusted you, that you got casted for a reason and you're this kind of dynamic, fascinating person. And the last Thing she would have wanted was for you to, like, come in, come in with a bunch of do's and don'ts and kind of scare yourself before you even got started.

[D]

Right?

[C]

I mean, listen, I was frightened out of my mind to begin with, you know what I mean? I wish, I kind of wish she had told me more to like, you know, calm down a little, lean back every time I see myself played back. And I don't know if it's like they pick out the bits and pieces, but I'm always yelling. Everything I'm doing, I'm yelling. I'm yelling in my confessionals, I'm yelling on scenes, you know, far and few in between am I just calm. Oh, my God.

[A]

Why do you think Rosie and Kelsey are always at each other's throats?

[C]

That's a good question. I think that their personalities are just so vastly different. You know, Kelsey is super reserved, but then when pushed, she can be outgoing. And I think that Rosie's super outgoing and when pushed can be super reserved. And I think that they just kind of butt heads because they meet at different times. They meet on the opposite time all the time, and they're both, you know, young and starting out and, you know, there's that whole component. But yeah.

[A]

Cause it almost kind of feels competitive in a way, and maybe it's because they kind of have a very similar look and they're seem to be relatively in the same stage of life and it almost feels like they're in a weird way competing with each other in a way that, like, they're not competing with, say, like, Ashley and. But it is fascinating to hear your perspective on ways that are different.

[C]

Yeah, I can see where it would appear that way, but truly, I truly believe, and I've seen it time and time again, and whether we see this or not on the show, I think it's more of a personality thing. They really, truly butt heads. They really are. Are the antithesis of each other in so many ways. And they, I think that they don't understand the other's language, you know, and they dig into shit that we don't necessarily dig into at this age. You know what I mean? Stuff that no one really cares about. So I think that that's why it comes across that way. But stay tuned, we'll see.

[A]

Who do you connect with more, Rosie or Kelsey?

[C]

I haven't had great opportunity to really connect with Rosie. When I have, she's not been super interested and I don't know if that's because I'm close with Kelsey. But I would definitely have to say Kelsey. I mean, we're on the phone around the clock and it's funny because she's the youngest cast member, but she's, she's, she does really well at relating on. Are seemingly trying to. Anyway, we, we get along well.

[A]

How long. When did you become aware of her kind of untraditional relationship dynamic that she has? And was that something you were as equally fascinated by as most fans are or were you just kind of like, yeah, I've, you know, whatever.

[C]

Do you, you know, again, being in Rhode island in such a small state, we all, I mean, years ago, you know what I mean? We all kind of. It's very incestuous here. We know so much about who's who and what they're doing. So coming into the show, it's kind of like old hat for me. You know, I know the boy, the ex boyfriend so well. I know the new boyfriend so well. It wasn't, it wasn't shocking to me as I would had imagined it would be, you know, to the audience. But I see why. I can see why. Yeah, it's not something, it's not a dynamic that I would be interested in, but it's unique and interesting and she was young and having fun or whatever. So.

[A]

Why did you give Ashley the worst mask?

[C]

Oh, you know, I'm so glad you asked me that because as soon as you said we're close with Ashley, I want her to say that was not on purpose. So when I received those masks, it was very last minute and they were, it was very slim pickings. So I will tell you, there were two masks that were left out. Rula wasn't there and that just happened to be the best option that I could try to make sense of where we were going with her. The other one had some super long beak, like, you know, the old medicine man. It was like out to here. And the other one was like very two faced and I couldn't do that. So I mean to deduce it, it wasn't on purpose and I felt really bad, but that didn't come across. I felt so bad because she is the sweetest girl and she's real and she's just, she's sweet, she. She feels, she's caring, she's a good person. I didn't want to put her in. I wanted hers to come off immediately. I wanted her to go first so she could take it off, you know. I did feel so bad.

[A]

I was really moved last episode by, by Jo Ellen's story about her mom. And also I kind of regret it because when on the first episode I was a little critical because, like, I'm. I'm a new. I'm a new parent relatively, you know, got a young daughter. And so, like, I'm. I'm very like, pro parent, I guess, hard to, you know, like, have empathy for parents and the challenges of. Of raising a kid and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, And. And the season starts with Joella being like, you know, my mom is not a great mom. And I was like, yo. Like, that's. That's. That was. That's harsh. But we see this episode and, oh, my God, it was honestly hard to watch. And it was really, you know, like, it was just a difficult conversation to receive. When did you learn about her relationship with her mom and her childhood? And I guess, like, how do you think that affects. Affects Joe Allen today as an adult? And does that. Did that kind of help you give perspective about kind of who she is and how she moves as an adult?

[C]

That's, like, an amazing question. It's weird. I don't know if I intuitively thought of this before I jumped on here, but, you know, throughout the past couple of years, she has mentioned her mom and you know, how tough she is and, you know, in bits and pieces, never these really specific stories that we're now hearing. These. These really traumatic, deep stories. And even I watching it now, I'm like, wow, like, that was difficult. That was harsh. That explains a lot. You know what I mean? That being said, I feel like, you know, sometimes hurt people. Hurt people. And the two aren't mutually exclusive. You know what I mean? So it doesn't necessarily negate it, I think, for Joellen, and I've said this to her, when she first shared all this with me, it was actually in a castle. And you don't see it. I said, you know, I think it was. It's heavy, and it's heavy on the heart. And me always trying to find the silver lining. I'm like, you know, I think, you know, they say the only way out is through, right? So I think it's important for you to now move away from that, not use it as a catalyst to promote more heavy stuff in the world. It's. Go out. Go out to some of these places and find that little girl that you were and help them, and that's your way through it. So, you know, know I say that, but, you know, it's. It's. She has a grand opportunity to stop the cycle now as a parent and that's powerful if, you know, she can, she's able to do that and she decides to do that. That's very, very, very powerful. And even today I'm still learning, you know, how difficult it was for her, which does make me understand her a lot more, feel a lot more compassionate.

[A]

So insightful what you said too, because I think, you know, I think, I think for all of us, like we all have very different degrees of childhood trauma and things like that. But I think sometimes, whether people try to or not, it's like I think sometimes we can, our trauma can be our identity in a way. And especially once we open up about that trauma and we receive that support and sympathy that sometimes can be difficult to kind of let go of. And to your point, can it. It doesn't really allow us to get through it and almost kind of keeps us stuck in it. So it's stagnant. Yeah.

[C]

So it's, you know, how we take it. If you look at life like a school, you know, the worst things you go through, you. It gives you the greater opportunity to elevate. It's all about what you do with it. You know what I mean? Sometimes the negatives, there's opportunity in that. You know, like that whole thing about, you know, feeling displaced. I was thinking about that last night. Like, I have had times in my childhood where I felt ridiculously displaced, but I don't, I'm not one that just. I don't bear it all. You know what I mean? I try not to define myself through it. I'm certainly never try to compare through it. But like, I, I can relate to that and understand that as well.

[A]

Yeah. Overall, how would you rate your experience being a housewife versus what your expectation was going in? And do you think there's a long term future in this for you?

[C]

I am such an, I've always been, since its inception, an avid housewife fan. Like, I have barely missed an episode of any franchise of any year.

[E]

Oh, wow.

[C]

So, I mean, you know, this was always my guilt, guilty pleasure. And so, you know, when I kind of got an inkling that this was what this was, I was like, oh, but no, I can't. I mean, you know, carrying all kinds of shit into it with it, the expectations is, yeah, it's, it's, it's radically different. It's radically different actually being on it. And it's still so surreal to me and the opportunity is wild and I am so grateful. I think it might be a little different for me because I didn't necessarily feel Like, I always fit in. You know, I would have loved to have my cohort. I would have loved to have Dolores there more or someone I could kind of bounce off of or someone who may be related to me a little more, you know, on an age level. So that I'm not sure. You know, that was kind of difficult because if you look at all the other franchises, everyone has a cheerleader. You know, even the. Even the ones that are not well received have a cheerleader. You know what I mean? They have someone who can relate to them remotely close to their age. I didn't have that. I mean, I. You know, so I don't know. I'm still like, I have to see how it plays out because I think I'm probably in for a bumpy ride, but I don't know, I'd have to carve, like, a new niche for myself where I felt a little maybe more comfortable.

[B]

What was your reaction when you found out you were Sinner Shell?

[C]

I don't know. There was, like, speculation. There were times when I was like, no way. I might not even be in it at this point. I might be cut out of it altogether. I'll probably be on the end. And they put that. And then there are a lot floating around that actually have Alicia in it. So I'm like. It was wild. It was surreal. But it did kind of make me feel happy because I felt like, oh, maybe they threw me a bone.

[A]

I don't know. No, you're. You're being humble as. You're really. You're an awesome housewife.

[D]

Center pearl in our hearts and in reality.

[C]

Yeah, that's really sweet. Thank you.

[A]

Before we let you go, Liz and I just want to thank you for your time and we've enjoyed this conversation so much. What is your favorite housewife franchise? Outside of Rhode island, of course.

[C]

I mean, different years, I've had different opinions. I mean, I really loved OG New York. I'm loving Salt Lake.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I enjoy Beverly Hills. I really like them all, but those are probably my top. I loved Jersey. What was more entertaining than that? You know, they're all so different. And, you know, I'm really proud to be a part of this franchise because I love my hometown so much.

[A]

Well, we're excited that you're a part of it as well, Liz, and really appreciate you taking the time. Hope that we can talk to you again, have you hit in person sometime. But thank you again for your time. Congratulations on amazing new show and being a big part of it. And it's been a Lot of fun watching you, and we're very excited to kind of see. See how things unfold. One, one. One more quick question. What is the thing that you.

[F]

Can you.

[A]

Can you tease a little bit, the thing that you're maybe most nervous about without spoiling anything so that we can kind of look forward to the rest of the season?

[C]

Oh, I can just say that I'm in for a bumpy ride.

[F]

That.

[C]

And that's what makes me the most nervous because that. That's the one thing that I dreaded the most, you know, like drama being the stage. How indignant. But I'm in for a bit of a bumpy ride, you know, And I just hope people can figure out that I'm actually not a monster, you know,

[A]

the only way through it is through it, Liz. And we'll get through it together. Just know you have fans in us and we're big fans of you. And I'm sure it is not as bad as.

[F]

As.

[A]

As you worry. I'm sure it'll be fine either way.

[C]

I think. I think it's pretty bad.

[B]

Well, we'll circle back.

[A]

We'll circle back. Yeah. We'll hear our thoughts on the show.

[C]

I would love that, actually. I would love the opportunity for that because you guys have amazing questions. You're really smart.

[A]

Well, I appreciate you, Liz. Say hi to Ashley if you see her. Thank you for taking the time. We really appreciate you.

[C]

All right, thank you, guys.

[A]

That'll do it for today's episode. Thank you to our guests Liz McGraw and Ben Mandelcler from Watch what Grappens. We appreciate you guys listening to all your friends. Go check out this week's episodes if you haven't listened to them all. We had Tom Schwartz yesterday. Really shared some tea on the whole summer house of it all, talked about the Valley. It's just great to catch up with him. He's also in love.

[D]

He's in love.

[A]

He really seems super in love.

[B]

Emily D. Baker breaks down all the Blake Lively Justin Baldoni settlements.

[A]

We also had Jay Alles. Very talented, very sexy, very wonderful actor, and super cute, super. Just great to talk to. Just fun, fun dad life. So, anyway, a lot of great stuff for you to check out. Also check out the Asnic episodes if you haven't already. We had Mark Wahlberg on last week's episode, so be sure to do that as well. We'll see you back next week. Bye. Bye.

[C]

Foreign.

[A]

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