E1126 - Justin Sylvester's HOT Summer House And Housewives Takes & Divorce Attorney Breaks Down Dorit & PK

Summary

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The Viall Files: E1126 - Justin Sylvester's HOT Summer House and Housewives Takes & Divorce Attorney Breaks Down Dorit & PK

Release Date: May 14, 2026
Host: Nick Viall
Co-hosts: Natalie Joy, Justin Sylvester (guest), Household Regulars
Special Guests: Jake O’Kane (Divorce Attorney), Justin Sylvester (Pop Culture Commentator)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Viall Files is a dynamic, jam-packed reality TV and relationship deep dive. Nick, Natalie, and the Household bring on two special guests to unpack major headlines in Reality TV: top divorce attorney Jake O’Kane joins to break down the highly-publicized Dorit and PK split from The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Later, Bravo favorite Justin Sylvester comes in hot with his bold takes on Summer House, the evolving Housewives franchise, and the messiest relationship drama on TV today.

Throughout, the panel offers candid, humorous, and insightful commentary on the law, reality television, pop culture, and what happens when private pain becomes public spectacle—keeping things real and always a little bit gossipy.

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Breakdown of Key Topics & Insights

1. The Dorit & PK Divorce—Legal Perspective with Jake O’Kane

[08:00–29:48]

Jake O’Kane’s Legal Background

• Jake has 5+ years in family law, trial experience, handles high-conflict cases, and also does criminal defense and restraining orders (09:24).
• “Anytime I take in a case, I’m planning on it to go to trial. Not that many of them do, but you always gotta be planning for it.” (E, 09:27)

Dorit & PK: What Makes This Divorce Unique

• The Dorit/PK split mirrors “ordinary” divorces (overspending, alcohol, communication issues) but intensified with wealth and public scrutiny (10:54).
• The public persona matters: Dorit's “brand” (extravagance, luxury, spending) can hurt her in court.
• Judges make credibility and “vibe” determinations; family court is “vibes court” (A & E, 12:11–12:44).

Public Narrative & Legal Strategy

• Reality TV stars can’t blame editing for their public image in the courtroom; the judge sees the facts (13:30).
• PK’s podcast confessionals are a risky move: “If I’m PK’s attorney… I would have said a lot less. I wouldn’t have talked about the divorce at all on a podcast.” (E, 14:39)
• Public “airing of dirty laundry” can affect custody and damage how the kids perceive both parents (16:06).

Issues of Asset Division and Overspending

• Both Dorit’s and PK’s behavior, as seen on TV and in public, is legal ammunition.
• Dorit’s longstanding “not involved in finances” position is no longer defensible: “Her not being aware of her finances is not an excuse to blow so much money.” (E, 18:23)
• California’s 50/50 split is a starting point; overspending or asset dissipation can shift the outcome (23:56).

“If PK can come across better and show… he’s been responsible where Dorit hasn’t… he might get a little bit over the edge and get a little bit more than 50/50 because she has dissipated assets through her spending problem.”
– Jake O’Kane [24:39]

Societal & Gender Dynamics in Family Court

• Courts are trending to 50/50 parenting but financial judgments remain mathematical (26:43).
• “I think it’s becoming more 50/50 as time moves on, but really it comes down to what judge you get… maybe your personality just doesn’t click.” (E, 26:43)
• Emotional/psychological justifications for overspending are considered, but the law looks at what was done, not why (28:42).

Notable Quote:

“Family court, there’s no jury, so you’re just doing a popularity contest in front of this judge. That’s a great way to put it.”
– Jake O’Kane [12:11]

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2. Divorce in the Public Eye – Emotional Fallout

[29:48–43:23]

• Discussions turn to the emotional toll of divorce, both as experienced by children (personal stories, 37:20) and as displayed on reality television.
• “Everybody’s a victim in the divorce. Your friends, your family, the children, the wife, the spouse, whoever… it forces everybody in the situation… to go into survival mode.” – Justin Sylvester [38:21]
• The cast reflects on the courage and difficulty of maintaining peace post-split, using Kyle & Mauricio as a positive example of co-parenting and mature separation [39:22–41:00].

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3. Bravo Recap Lightning Round with Justin Sylvester

[48:10–95:16]

Real Housewives of Atlanta Quick Takes

• Atlanta is “a factory of memes and lines.” Pinky Cole is a breakout (49:23).
• K. Michelle is “a trained professional” in the art of reality TV drama (49:25).

Beverly Hills & Reality Star Boundaries

• When your storyline is the show’s “A story,” you are the ligament for the series narrative (F, 51:08).
• Being on reality TV “is like getting absolutely smashed the night before major surgery.” – Justin Sylvester [52:02]
• Sylvester explains how the “spin cycle” of divorce is exacerbated by having every moment filmed and judged (52:31).

The Nature of Reality TV

• Panel discusses how limited filming breaks keep wounds fresh; cast members carry unresolved issues season to season, shaped by public reaction (F, 55:19).
• Panel calls for more “fourth wall” breaking—don't hide the mechanics and meta-narratives of reality TV (F & D, 56:38).

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4. Summer House: Relationship Soup & Editorial Genius

[59:03–66:29]

Analysis of the Amanda/Kyle Divorce and the West/Sierra/Amanda Triangle

• Esteemed praise for Bravo editors—calling out the razor sharp editing and Easter eggs fueling speculation (“that editor better win a Nobel Peace Prize” – F, 59:46).
• Lingering hugs, subtle moments, and emotional betrayals are parsed and celebrated.

“Let me tell you something. Unless that man has a G550, a credit score of 1275… I do not get this whole thing.”
– Justin Sylvester on West’s appeal, [61:51]

• Discussion: The difference between physical and emotional infidelity is a fine line, especially with sympathetic editing.

Future of the Cast

• Debate on splitting cast into different houses next season due to post-betrayal animosity (F, 64:53).
• Parallel to Vanderpump Rules: “If Ariana was like, ‘I’m not filming with him’… I feel like Sierra is going to be the exact same way with Wes and Amanda.” (B, 66:01)

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5. Media, Scandal, and Social Media Justice

[67:23–76:58]

Scandal Response PR

• “The more you put yourself out there when you’re going through a scandal, the older the story will get quicker… If you do something in January and you hide till August, that’s all people will talk about.” (F, 71:39)
• Justin offers free advice for celebs stuck in scandal cycles.

Amanda & Misogyny Backlash

• Debate over misogynistic overtones in the way Amanda is being treated by fans, both by men and women.
• “Internalized misogyny… Women grow up being told other women are the issue… Amanda, however, you are the issue. You’re the one that ruined all of this, so let’s eviscerate you.” – D, [87:06]

“People do be hating women.”
– D, [89:21]

Empathy and Accountability

• Panel aims for a balanced, humanizing view: “I’m not doing the thing that we do in society where we go ham on the woman. Yes, she fucked up. But I’m not gonna let her take the blame for Kyle, too.” – F, [84:14]

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6. Bravo Easter Eggs & Summer House Sex Debate

[89:34–94:33]

• Panel riffs on the “experience” of West—great pre/post-game, but the actual sex is likely “meh” and probably selfish (F, D, B, [93:04]).

Closing Laughs & Plugs

• Justin Sylvester plugs his podcast “Yesterday’s” and pushes to reach a million followers: “Get me to a million!” [94:45]
• Final shout-outs, positivity for upcoming Perfect Match lineup.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Family court… is all about posturing… I call it vibes court, because that’s honestly what it is.”
  — Jake O’Kane (E), [12:44]

• “Going on a reality show and going through a divorce while you’re on a reality show is probably the hardest thing. I’d rather get a colonoscopy after going to Chili’s.”
  — Justin Sylvester (F), [51:49]

• “Let me tell you something. Unless that man has a G550… I do not get this whole thing.”
  — Justin Sylvester, [61:51]

• “Everybody’s a victim in the divorce… it forces everybody in the situation to… go into survival mode.”
  — Justin Sylvester, [38:21]

• “It’s just literally like, it takes time to… evolve your opinion on something. Not saying these relationships are always bad, but you learn how to deal with it for the sake of your children and your family.”
  — D (on evolving after a divorce), [42:28]

• “That editor—the bump of coke, the pack of cigarettes—that editor better win a Nobel Peace Prize.”
  — Justin Sylvester, [59:46]

• “People do be hating women.”
  — D, [89:21]

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Major Segments & Timestamps

• Dorit & PK Legal Breakdown: 08:00–29:48
• Divorce Family Fallout, Parenting & Public Image: 29:48–43:23
• Bravo/Atlanta & Beverly Hills Recap w/ Justin Sylvester: 48:10–59:03
• Summer House Deep Dive: Betrayal, Sex, & Social Fallout: 59:03–94:33
• Final Thoughts, Social Media Scandals, Plugs: 94:33–End

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Episode Tone

• Conversational, humorous, and deeply self-aware
• Mix of expert analysis, pop-culture loving shade, and real-life vulnerability
• Candid and fair—willing to call out bias and embrace empathy

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode is an essential listen for Bravo and reality TV fans, delivering legal insight into high-profile divorces, fresh hot takes on the evolving dynamics of Summer House, and the kind of sharp, compassionate, and chaotic energy that makes The Viall Files a must for pop culture lovers. Whether you want to understand the mechanics of a TV divorce, the editing genius behind reality gold, or simply keep up with the biggest scandals of the week—this recap has you covered.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

It's very belly heavy up in here.

[C]

So I think you look gorgeous with your belly.

[A]

We are up at the lake and I've also realized I should have eaten breakfast this morning because you should have

[B]

fed me breakfast too. The fact that you didn't is crazy.

[A]

And we're running on fumes. We had a travel day yesterday. I know. I know what you're thinking. It's not going to have. It was like the worst travel day we've.

[B]

It was just one of those, like, delayed, delayed, delayed, missed connection. Delayed, delayed, delayed.

[A]

But I do want to say shout out to the people on this, the customer service people in the field saints. I don't know how they do one of the hardest jobs in the world because the way of. The way just the miracle of flight goes wrong sometimes. And then delays will happen. And then the customer service on the phone sets up the people. Streets on the ground for like, they

[B]

push streets on the ground, you know,

[A]

in the field, like behind the desk.

[B]

Boots on the ground.

[C]

Boots on the ground.

[A]

Sorry. Boots.

[D]

Boots on the ground. Boots on the ground.

[A]

And it's always a lot of like, listen, I am not mad at you, but in my body, it was a tough, long day and. But we're here.

[C]

How many. Can I ask how many hours was the travel day?

[B]

Woke up at about 5:30 PST. Yep. Yep. Got to LAX, got to.

[A]

To the lake house at 2:00am Central Time. Oh, man. And it did include, if, you know, the Midwest. And I made every bad decision, you know.

[B]

You did.

[A]

Well, I, you know, like. Yeah, I just like, when. When you had options, you. It's like, you know, you have two decisions. They're both bad decisions, but you pick one. Our flight was delayed. We had a tight connection. I'm on customer service anyways. I just, I mean, you know, they're like, you know, door A, door B. I would pick door B. And turns out, definitely should have picked door A.

[D]

Like in Planes, Trains and Automobiles.

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[B]

And it typically. Like, what? You know, it'd just be one of those things. And honestly, everyone at Chicago Airport that was sitting around us seemed like they also had had the longest day.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Chicago Airport, o'. Hare.

[B]

Like, everyone around us seemed like they were like, canceled. Canceled. I'm not getting home till midnight. I'm not getting home till this time. So it's a tough day. But I. There was.

[C]

Lights are being canceled.

[B]

There was lots of tears from me and river. But Nick, I cried on the inside.

[A]

You know, I didn't go Kyle, you know, but I cried on the inside. We have a fantastic episode lined up for you today. Jake o' Kane is a divorce lawyer who is going to be joining us. We' very excited to talk about him. I. Well, we. But particularly me, we're getting a divorce,

[B]

so we need some advice.

[A]

But I am following the PK And Dorit divorce with great interest. And I just kind of. We have so, you know, we talk, we talk so much about this. But like when we have Emily Baker on and I'm sure she could give us great insight, but she doesn't practice in divorce law. And I think divorce lawyers are very interesting because, like, obviously there's a legal aspect of it, but they're seeing relationships at their worst. But they've probably all, they've heard every story in the book and I'm sure they have great insight to how these things go wrong. Anyways, excited to talk with Jake and he's got some very interesting, like, perspectives on the Dorit and PK divorce at all. Obviously we have the summer house episode. Like, man, this, it gets crazier and crazier. But like this what it just show is this like the way if you love an Easter egg, man, this season, like people enjoy this, Enjoy, enjoy just watching this season in the, in the sense that like, if, if you're a reality TV fan and you love just the oh my God moments of like, I can't believe I'm watching that with like the hidden layers behind it. You just, you can' this level of authenticity that easily. And I just like, you know, a lot of these shows, you know, and I know we watch a lot of these shows to like, kind of like check out or, you know, watch casually. But like, you can't do that this season as well. We'll get into it. We have Justin Sylvester, the very hilarious, very talented friend of show, also big obviously Housewives and Bravo fan to join us and help us break that all down as well. So it's going to be a fun, fun, interesting episode. All right, well, I think Jake's here, so I think let's dive right into the whole Dorit and PK of it all and see what we can learn. And then up next, Jake, we got Justin Sylvester to get into all your summer house drama and then we'll talk a little Housewives of Atlanta and you know, maybe some Mormon wives. We'll see what happens. Anyways, Jake is up next. Before we get into this jam packed episode, don't forget the Viles plus episodes are now available ad free on Vile Files plus plus, in addition to ad free episodes, you get your reality recap. Deep Dive is where we dive deep into all your favorite reality TV shows. Obviously we cover a lot of content, but we don't get deep sometimes just because we're covering so much. And Vile Files plus is a place you can find it. We Got some summer house we're gonna get into. Obviously, with Perfect Match around the corner, we're gonna really get into that. So many episodes to cover. Whether it's Dorit's Divorce or Beverly Hills Housewives or just kind of just general, that is where we get into the weeds. Plus, we have your pop extra episodes where we dive into those trendy pop culture topics where reality TV and pop culture intersect. And your update specials, your favorite updates from your favorite ass snake episodes, which comes out this week. So be sure to sign up, check it out. You'll be glad that you did. Speaking of Perfect Match, I think it dropped last night. It's a great season if you haven't checked it out already. We have a full lineup of Perfect Match interviews coming up starting next week. Ali Luber, you know her from Vanderpump Rules. She's the ex of James, the dj, New father out there. Anyways, she's an absolute star. She's fantastic. She's so funny. She's so great. It's so good. Great to have her back on. Her back on.

[B]

And I don't. I feel like none of the men really, like, understand her humor, which is just, like, makes it even better because you do, as an audience member, understand her humor, and you're just like, I

[A]

love her so much. And Jimmy from Love is Blind. Jimmy's supporting the new hair, a great cast of Netflix characters, and addition Ali Luber. So be sure to check it out again. We have a great lineup of interviews coming your way starting next week, so be sure to check it out. Is streaming now on Netflix. All right, Jake, welcome to the show.

[E]

Thanks for having me, man. Wicked excited to be here so much.

[A]

I mean, we even got some breaking news. But we'll get into that in a moment. But I'm really excited to have. Have you really excited to get into all things divorce law. Obviously, as people know, we have covered the divorce of PK and Dorit with great interest. Certainly I have. Before we get into that, Jake, I'm realizing now because when I was like, we need to get divorced later on, I was online and we're looking. I'm seeing ESQ Next to your name. And I've now noticed that is like. Like, first of all, I didn't realize that Esquire, like, Jake Okane, Esquire, like, sounds so cool. And I didn't realize that was explained. Like, I didn't know that was a lawyer thing. Maybe I didn't know. I didn't. I don't know. I'm stupid. But Is that like, what is the. What does that mean? I don't. Is like, what does that mean?

[E]

You know what? I couldn't even tell you. I just think it adds credibility, you know, I'm told by the bar here that I'm allowed to do it now, and. I don't know, a little. A little ending to the name, I feel, like, spruces it up a little bit.

[A]

So really, it's just like a vanity plate, like, for lawyers. Like, lawyers. That's awesome.

[E]

Million percent.

[A]

And it works. It sounds so cool.

[E]

Feel like there's a little more trust built as well. You know, it's like, oh, there's an extra thing there.

[A]

Like, you're a knight. That's great.

[E]

I'll take. I'll take that as fascinating.

[A]

Well, doctors get to be like, doctor. I'm doctor.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Maryland. Anyways, I digress. Jake, really excited to have you on. Before we get into things, can you give a little bit about your background as a lawyer?

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

So that our audience is like, oh, this. We should listen to this guy.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've worked in family law for about five years now. I also have experience doing criminal defense, different kinds of restraining orders. I am a trial attorney. I've tried family law cases before. So, you know, anytime I take in a case, I'm planning on it to go to trial. Not that many of them do, but you always gotta be planning for it, ready to go if you need to utilize that.

[A]

That's awesome. Well, Jake is a good friend of Zach, Friend of household who's peaked on plus a couple. Well, he was actually on Tuesday's episode.

[B]

Yeah, he was. He broke down our love island.

[A]

He broke down our love island.

[D]

Shout out.

[A]

Anyways, obviously, the Dorit and PK divorce we follow with great interest. It is something that's getting really, really messy. You know, these are two kind of interesting characters, obviously, on the show, but, like, as a divorce lawyer, I'm. I'm just really curious. I just feel like one. I imagine a lot of divorce lawyers or lawyers who work in family practice, like, you must hear just the craziest relationship stories. And on some end. Well, I'm sure, like, I don't know, maybe there's some lawyers who are therapists out there. You probably have an interesting POV about, like, what causes a relationship to end. You know, who's right. Like, I wonder if, like, you're taking sides, even if you're, like, regardless of who you represent in your mind. So I am just curious, like, if looking at everything that's going out there. We have text release and things like that. What is Your just like 30,000 foot view of this divorce and how does it compare to maybe other things you've seen that you've worked on?

[E]

Yeah, you know what? I think it's a lot of these issues are very prevalent. Like. Right. Like, there's some issues with overspending, there's some alcohol issues that have been alleged. And, you know, I've also read that there's some issues of, you know, the parents communicating through the children. Those are all issues that take place in normal divorces all the time. The difference is the level of income and the amount of public exposure. I mean, looking at these guys, you have to evaluate how they're going to come across at court and how they're going to come across in a trial, which I think is really interesting when you mix in the fact that they're reality TV personalities. And, you know, I mean, especially part of Dorit, maybe a little more than PK's. I mean, her brand is, you know, her attitude, her spending, her personality. And that's going to come up and the court's going to evaluate that. Judges are going to make judgment calls on, you know, do I find Dorit credible? Do. Do I like Dorit? Do I like pk? Do I find PK credible? It's going to go both ways for them. But these guys definitely have a lot of problems.

[A]

So when you're. When you guys are litigating, this is it almost like, I suppose, so much about the law outside of the facts of the case, which you think would be the most important. It is almost like a pageant, almost like a reality TV show in itself that you're trying to, like, connect with the audience than being the jury or judge. And it's almost like a popularity contest.

[E]

Yeah, absolutely. So in family court, there's no jury, so you're just doing a popularity contest in front of this judge. I think that's a great way to put it. Nick. Anytime you have a family court case, it's all about posturing, all about how you come across. You know, let's say you run into an Ouija. You know, you go in front of a jury, you just have to hit, you know, three points. Did I. Did I prove an oui? Under whatever state you reside in here, there's so many factors, and family court judges are given so much leeway to side with either side just based on. I call it vibes court, because that's honestly what it is. So you better come in ready to Present yourself.

[B]

Well, now it says, what is, what is the oui? All I know is IOU operating under the influence dui.

[E]

Different states call it different things.

[A]

Gotcha. You know, it's so ironic when I think about this is that, you know, thinking about the popularity contest aspect of it is that like, I would say the number one excuse of a reality TV star, if the perception of them isn't what they feel the reality is, is to blame reality TV to lean into like, hey, miss. And again, not to discount that there's a huge amount of truth to like, yeah, I lean the fuck in, man. I was making tv, right? Like, it's not an excuse for like to eliminate any bad behavior. But there's a lot of truth to that. And I imagine most if not all judges, even if they are reality TV fans, that that excuse probably doesn't land court.

[E]

Yeah, I don't think it's going to land too well. I mean, especially. Well, I mean, I think one of the major cases, especially when you see the revealed text messages that have been reported on this week talking about Dorit's spending her entire brand has been extravagance. You know, buying so much things in so much expensive outfits and living a life of luxury. So then when PK comes into court and his attorneys make the argument that D read has been overspending, that's going to make it really difficult for her to escape that narrative. But based on the text messages, it does sound like there's some agreement floating around that they're ironing out. So hopefully they're close to the end. But you know, things could fall apart at any moment.

[A]

Not too long ago, PK did a podcast and really just spoke his truth. I am curious as, like, if you had a chance to listen to that, what was your just general take? And I guess like as a lawyer, whether you're his lawyer, I wonder if you would probably have advised him not to do that. But regardless, on both sides, when, you know, they always say like, whatever you say can be used against you in the court of law. I imagine like doing an hour long, you know, confessional is a lot of tea that like, like depending on who you are, is like a lot of information.

[E]

Yeah, I mean they're exposing themselves. Right. If I'm, if I'm PK's attorney or if I'm Dorit's attorney, I'm going to be watching everything they've put out, everything that discussed about the case, everything that talked about even in their day to day lives. You know, hey, you've gone to this very expensive restaurant or this. You've taken this trip, as you talked about on this podcast here. I mean, with Dorit, part of her. She has to be on Housewives. That's part of her income. She has to subject herself to that kind of revealing situation. Pk, I'm kind of surprised that he made that decision. I. I would be very surprised to hear if his attorneys told him to do that or not, because I did listen to the whole PK interview, and I think he's going to hold himself up a lot better in court if this case were to go to trial than Dorit. But I would have said a lot less. I would have said a lot less. I wouldn't have talked about the divorce at all on a podcast. I don't think that's smart whatsoever.

[A]

I love the accent. To that end, like, even if I. Without even, like, if I don't even watch the. The interview, if I'm a judge, I'm like, you couldn't help yourself, man. You couldn't help yourself. And then it's like, then you have to ask yourself, like, what else can you help yourself with? You know what I'm saying? Like, it just shows a lack of probably, I'm guessing, restraint. And I imagine, like, a judge is going to, like, weigh that in his, like, you know, it's just like, no matter what he says, it's like, because any. A judge is a former lawyer in most cases, and they must know, like, you probably did this at the. Against the advice of your counsel. And. And I wonder if judges, like, take that kind of things into consideration.

[E]

Well, they have to. They have to. I mean, you see it on small scales all the time. Like moms going soccer, moms going on Facebook groups complaining about their divorce. You know, judges don't like to see people airing their dirty laundry. And, you know, they'll say, hey, this could impact the kids. Like, the kids could read this. I'm pretty sure their kids are like preteens needs, so they're gonna have access to this information. And the fact that they're airing all this dirty laundry, like, maybe they get made fun of in school or whatever. It's not gonna be healthy for them. And I think that was very short sighted on his part, especially because it's not a source of income for him.

[D]

Well, in tandem with the podcast, do you think that we're talking about reality tv, their presence and their storyline on this last season of Beverly Hills and their separation? Like, is that something that like. Like they're Gonna bring up in court.

[E]

I. I would if I was either one. If I was PK's attorney. I mean, I know the alcohol issue involving PK has been brought up. I don't know how serious that alcohol issue is. I feel like if it was super serious, we would have heard more about it rather than just things that Dorit is saying. But, yeah, because the kids are gonna see that, and that impacts the children. You know, they really want you to shut it down. And, you know, they're at a. I mean, both of them are right. They're against each other. So it's not a distinct disadvantage for either one of them. But the. The more material you put out there, the more myself as a divorce attorney or any divorce attorney could use against you. And it's just not smart with the

[B]

whole, like, him not paying the mortgage or whatever, and, like, her house then being foreclosed on and her saying, I, you know, I wasn't aware that he wasn't paying anything. I mean, that's got to look terrible on pk.

[E]

You know, it may look terrible on PK if he'd been doing it historically, and he has. But another issue as well is that she's living in the house right now. I don't believe there's any order of who needs to. So anytime you get divorced, temporary restraining order, you know, and you want to try to keep the status quo as much as possible, but anytime people are separating, you're going to get new property, and, you know, naturally the status quo of the financial situation is going to change just based on people being separated, buying new houses, having, you know, pay for utilities by themselves versus together. I mean, with pk, yeah, it could come to hammer him, but, you know, I think the spending issue with Dorit is probably more pressing there in terms of their financial issues.

[B]

So you think a judge would focus on, like, well, you are obviously spending all this money. Why weren't you, like, making sure your bills were paid type of thing?

[E]

I think that could be an issue. I. Yeah, I do think that could be an issue. And also, too, it was brought up at their reunion that was filmed, I think, back in March. But there's a difference between financial abuse and outsourcing your financial responsibility. Advice for anyone out there, know what's going on with your finances, if you're in a relationship or anything like that. You know, at least check the tax returns every year. You know, every couple months. Just, hey, are we good? Are we. Let me look at a statement or something. But, you know, it looks like. Dorit kind of gave that all over to pk. And, you know, her not being aware of her finances is not an excuse to blow so much money.

[A]

Yeah. Because there's, like, on von PK side, he could be like, I would have loved to have paid our mortgage, but we had no money. You know, like, you know, she bought a purse instead. I mean, I don't know if that's accurate or true, but. Justin, go ahead.

[C]

Yeah. I guess my question is, what's. What is the ultimate purpose of these documents? Because I know it's family law, and I know, like, PK is asking the court to force the sale of the house, and a lot of this is trying to, like, show what their expenses are. So is this a separation of assets? Is this mediation for the kids? Like, what is the full scope of what these documents are trying to accomplish?

[E]

So they're trying to edge themselves closer and closer to a divorce. Right. These things take time. And so slowly, you're. You have so many things to debate. You have the. The custody of the children. You have the financial assets, which is probably the most talked about issue as we're talking about now. So, yeah, it's just edging closer to when they get to their final agreement. And it seems to be based on the text messages going through all of them within the past month or two. It looks like the only major decision left is the house based on what they're saying in these text messages in

[C]

terms of, like, if they're separating assets and they're trying to prove, like, what was a necessity for, I guess, their lifestyle. I know one of the things that came up was the amount of that PK would spend on groceries, which I think. Or dory, but I think the amount came out to, like, $6,402 for groceries per month.

[A]

Now, eggs are expensive, guys, but would

[C]

the court look at that and be like, that was a necessary expense for their lifestyle, or will they look at that and be like, well, that was excessive. You could have been shopping for, like, a thousand dollars worth of groceries?

[E]

I mean, absolutely, that's something that could come up. But I think what's really important here is, you know, a lot of Dorit's expenses, And, you know, PK's expenses have been talked about for the last year. I'd be really interested to see. And what year prior is this going in line with what they spent on groceries in 2024, you know, prior to Dorit going to file? Yeah. When they were together, is this along the lines of what they were doing or Is the. Are these major jumps? Because even, like, the critique of Dorit, like, I. I think she's getting a lot of crap for, like, $69,000, like, bags and things like that. Was she spending this when they were together? Like, is this a normal expense for her, or has she amped it up? You know, if it. If it's something that she's amped up, she is going to. She's going to feel the burn on that a lot more.

[A]

We always talk about how, like reality TV is, it can often be a demise of a relationship, certainly a marriage. But I'm curious as it relates to just, you know, anyone listening to this, Like, I. How often do you see, you know, a couple that, like, part of their story is, like, someone. Or both parties, things change. Maybe they got this huge promotion, you know, maybe, you know, they got a huge. Maybe inheritance or whatever. It is, like, something in that relationship drastically changed where the couples, like, what. For whatever reason, it. That was maybe, like, the starting point of, like, the rift. Is that a fair. A pretty common occurrence? Or, like, are you. Or is it divorce more like. I don't know. There's like 50,000 different stories, all unique.

[E]

You know, there are a million stories that are all unique, but there definitely are trends. And, like, one of those trends is you pointed out, and it's, you know, any kind of change in a person's life, and I think, you know, reality TV and getting that kind of exposure is absolutely a huge change, and that's, you know, gonna put a significant amount of stress. I mean, I. I know from Survivor, my experience on there, which was very limited, that was a significant amount of stress on my life, you know, but the thing with these people is that they've been doing it for a long time. She's been on. They've been on real housewives since 2016. I can only imagine that. And being under the public eye, you know, has put an even greater pressure on them, you know, and when you're going into divorce, it's very difficult to have your dirty laundry aired to the public. And, you know, you will see that when there are prominent people, maybe it's not as big as national. National media, but people who are prominent in their community, you know, they get, you know, their board of selectmen or some kind of, you know, political thing or, you know, like you said, a promotion, that any kind of change. If a couple can't last through change, you kind of wind up coming to me or someone who does what I do. You know, that.

[A]

That's fascinating. So to wrap things up on Dorit and pk, I am curious, like, do you. You kind of alluded to it says you feel like PK will come across better in court. And it sounds like at the end of the day, that's really what it's all about. If that. If you're right and that is the case, like, what. What could that mean in terms of a final determination? Like, I guess my question is like, what's the delta? You know, because it's my understanding, like California is like a 50, 50 state. You know, is Wisconsin, which is like two places I'm from, but like. So I guess my question is, is like, what, you know, at the end of the day, how much does the either party have to lose in terms of what they would be made responsible for by the determination of the judge?

[E]

So here with the. The money being split, it's. You're saying it's 50, 50 state. The problem is here is their final issue. Likely is her amount of spending. If he can prove that she overspended. She was a shopaholic. You see it a lot of people with. With a lot of people who have like an alcohol problem or a drug problem, hey, they spent marital assets on their drug, alcohol, or in Dorit's case, a spending problem. If, you know, I think if PK can come across better and show him that he's been responsible where Dorit hasn't, and he's going to have to compare prior years of spending to this current past year, I think he's going to be able to hold himself and he might get a little bit over the edge and get a little bit more than 50, 50 because she has dissipated assets through her spending problem.

[A]

Interesting.

[E]

That's something she could be looking at.

[A]

So 50, 50 state lot isn't like a black and white thing. It's almost like a starting point, and then it's argued from there.

[E]

So that's typically how it works in mass, in my experience. But, you know, yeah. So things will go back and forth. I've seen people blow assets before where the judges say, hey, half of that money you blew on dumb stuff is your spouse's. So I'm going to take the half that you spent on that dumb stuff and immediately off the top, give that half a dumb stuff to the person who didn't spend that money.

[A]

But I'm guessing gifts for your wife doesn't count, right? You can't. If I think I would never have bought this for myself and she asked for it, I can't go back and be like, I didn't want to buy it for her.

[E]

Yeah, probably not. I mean, anytime, you know, you'll see people do the money thing where there's cheating involved. It's always a lot easier to catch when a dude is cheating versus when a woman's cheating, because a woman, like, you know, they'll go to Sears, they'll get some guy a set of tools. Men will wind up at Victoria's Secret getting them something like that. And, you know, that sets up a red flag when I start looking at bank accounts.

[A]

Interesting. I don't know if anyone else had any more questions. My last question. I am curious. You know, obviously we operate in the court of public opinion, especially in reality tv, which predominantly for us is a woman audience. And I think, you know, when we are obviously discussing these things, there's a, you know, it's a little weighted in one direction. You know, I also, by the way, and that's fine because, like, you know what? You know, it's a fact, guys, I say this is the household. Justin. Justin Mayer and I have talked about this. That still to this day blows my mind that women weren't allowed to get their own credit card as. As recent as the 1970s. Did you know that? Crazy.

[E]

That's insane.

[A]

That's crazy. Anyway, I'm curious and I imagine, I guess my point to bring that up is, I imagine over, you know, know, not too recently, courts were probably heavily weighted towards men, and men always got the benefit of the doubt, and men were judges. And probably up until recently, I, you know, I feel like things didn't really go probably pretty middle. But, like, I'm curious, as society has evolved, have you, as a lawyer, seen a difference in decision making when it comes to how these divorces are. Are litigated?

[E]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, from what I see now, I think the biggest change over time, and you can even think about, like, like when you were growing up, if you had friends whose parents they got divorced, you know, the kids are going to dad's house every other weekend, and maybe they're getting dinner on Wednesdays with them. Now, at least in my experience, I'm seeing more and more judges bend towards, you know, 50, 50 parenting time, from what I've seen. And so, you know, a lot of people say, you know, family court, there's a little more women sided. I think it's becoming more 50, 50 as time moves on. But it really comes down to the end of the day, what judge do you get? What experiences have they had in life? Do they, like you maybe your personality just doesn't click with your judge, and that can make it a tougher time for you.

[A]

So you're saying even historically, you feel like family courts have. Have been more prone to side. Side with women? I understand with parenting and obviously childcare, that obviously makes. That's the case. But even financially, do you, do you feel like historically that was always the case?

[E]

Financially, Financially? No, that's. That's been more stagnant, in my opinion. You know, typically when you look at the finances, it comes down to a math problem. Right. You know, you see, you know, you see alimony going to men and women now. You know, I've had more cases where, you know, women are receiving alimony than men or, you know, called spousal support as well. But, yeah, I would say, I would say financially, it's, it's similar.

[A]

Yeah. Rachel Lindsay's ex husband is sucking off the. Anyway, anyone have any more questions for Jake before we go?

[C]

I have another question. So in regards to speaking about, like, the potential of overspending and debt on Dorit's side, I know that they experienced a robbery a couple years ago, and that had, like, a psychological impact on Dorit, as it would. And I think, is there a world where, like, if PK is trying to take the angle of she's overspending, that there can be an argument of that's her coping from having, having experienced that, and that's just a result of, like, I don't know, some kind of psychological defense. Defense approach.

[E]

Yeah. So I, I, you can definitely make that argument, and if I was their attorney, I would make that argument. But I think this is a lot of, like, the, when people are looking at these situations and they don't have experience in family court a lot, they'll see actions of someone that they might like on tv, and they come up with a psychological reason for that. Makes sense for why they did what they did, you know, but at the end of the day, the impact of what she did, you know, while maybe more understandable, he may still be able to prove that she overspent, given the automatic restraining order that was put in place once she filed. I mean, you saw a lot of people bring up mental health issues and, you know, the effects of, like, abuse with, like, that whole Taylor, Frankie, Paul situation. And, you know, at the end of the day, they're going to look at the law and, you know, did she make an unsafe environment for those kids? You know, not really why she did or did not. And it's the same thing here With Dorit and pk, it's not not why Dorit did or didn't overspend. It's did she.

[A]

Interesting, Jake. Really appreciate taking the time. A lot of interesting stuff. I, I could ask you a million more questions, but I know we have to get going, but we'd love to have you back. We appreciate you taking the time.

[E]

Thank you.

[A]

Jake o', Kane, Esquire, everybody. Have you ever introduced yourself as Esquire?

[E]

You know what? I would feel like an if I did that. I, I can't do that. You know, I, I, I'll put it on every zoom, though. Every zoom.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No, it's cool, man. I appreciate your time, Jake.

[E]

Thank you.

[A]

All right, talk soon.

[E]

Have a good one. Thank you, guys.

[B]

Thank you.

[D]

Bye. Thank you.

[A]

Helix Sleep. Talking about my favorite matches of all time. We are up at the lake, and you know what? You know what makes a house feel like a home? Your mattress that you sleep on. And when we come to the lake, we're still on the same moonlight mattress that we have back back in la, and boy, are we thankful for it. Also, we got river, as we call a big girl bed.

[C]

Boom.

[A]

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[D]

No, it was not.

[B]

I mean, if the judge is a fan of Beverly hills, for sure, like,

[A]

they're annoyed with Dorit if they're not a fan. But if you're. If you're PK's lawyer, like, you're. She just. And for. Again, for all we know, maybe. Maybe Dorit was like, you know what? I'm. I'm gonna show up.

[B]

Well, that's why she's so mad at Kyle for saying the whole, like, manic and erratic thing, because she's like, you know, pk's gonna use that against me. You said it on national television that I'm acting erratic and manic, and l. Like, you've been my friends for 10 years, and now, like, that's gonna be used against me.

[A]

The only. And that's fair. If you're Dorit, I get why you're mad at Kyle. The only issue is at some point when you keep acting mad in her. Whatever the two words were, and erratic. But, like, she didn't like Kyle's criticism had nothing to do with the fact that Dorit showed up to that reunion like, how she did. And Kyle pointing it out wasn't like the big, like, reveal. It wasn't like we didn't see it until Kyle brought it up. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, Natalie. Right, though, because the whole. The whole season has been Kyle kind of disproving everything that D's trying to say, which then could be used in court to be like, oh, well, he actually doesn't have a drink.

[A]

You know that. To that end, though, when you say, like, I don't feel like I fully appreciated, like, it. Well, two things. One, I get why do read's pissed. Two, at the same time, it's also it. It does tell me that the end of the day, Kyle doesn't really like to read. She is better friends with pk, and right or wrong. Yeah, her doing it has weight. Kyle certainly knows I'm not even faulting. It's just like, I think that's.

[B]

Well, I don't think Kyle was thinking about lawyers, listening, watching Real housewives of Beverly hills when she's FaceTiming bows and being like, listen, Dorit's spending a bunch of money. She's kind of giving erratic.

[A]

Listen, I. I'm not. I'm not. This is not a critique of Kyle. I mean, honestly, like, after this reunion, if I'm Kyle, I. I. I empathize with her pleasure flight. I am just saying I don't think no I actually. Yeah. I mean, Dorit brought it up too many times for it to not be like something. If you're. If you're best friends with Dorit and maybe you made the mistake of just like. And she's like, yo, like, just remember, like, we're. Everything can be said or can be used against the court of law. You might be like, oh, my bad. I would never do that again. But Kyle, like, is like her through line all season has debate, you know, poke holes and Dorit's behavior.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's so messy. I think my take about all of this as a child of divorce is like, both of them are going to go into survival mode and they're both going to use their tactics of, like, character assassination. And like, we're seeing the results of that on camera and in the chords and like, it's just gonna. Like, because they're both. They're all. They're both trying to survive and, like, it's gonna look messy.

[A]

No, but, you know, that makes a great point, Justin, that I honestly would have liked to have asked Jay take. But maybe your perspective right now, we're in this kind of very, like, now we're growing our family, you know, I mean, I like to think we're still in a honeymoon phase, but I guess what I'm saying is this, like, these couples that had children together are now getting divorced. Everyone outside looking in is always like, but the kids. And sometimes especially, like, if this is a perfect example, their kids are teenagers. They're consuming this concept.

[B]

I don't think they're teenagers. I think they're like. Like nine.

[A]

I don't know. You have four year olds learning how to, like, open iPads. I'm just saying, like, they're not that they're old enough to. To hear this stuff to, you know, to be teased at school anyways. But, like, why do you think, Justin, as someone who's lived this experience, why do you feel like despite like this, you know, because right now, I guess what I'm bringing, like, our. Our relationship is like, I couldn't imagine to. To want to, even if I hated Natalie, disrespect her in a way that would impact my child's point of view. You. Because regardless of how I feel about Natalie, I know how important that relationship is to my daughter, you know, And I'm just like, how do you. At what point, Justin, do you feel like people lose sight of that?

[B]

I have a vivid memory. And I know he asked you, Justin, but I do have a vivid memory of My parents divorced when I was three of being like, maybe. Maybe eight or nine. And my older sister and my mom, I remember, would just like, say, like, you know, just like, bash. My dad would just be like, he was never there for us. He was, you know, a bad dad. And at this point, I was seeing my dad every other weekend. He was, like, coaching my basketball team. And so I'm obviously not seeing the version that they're talking about. And I remember specifically going to them and crying and being like, stop talking bad about my dad. Like, he's my Superman, I remember saying. And they were like, like, oh, sorry. Like, yeah, you're right. Someday. And of course, I grew up, I listened to all the stories I heard. You know, I saw what had happened and I, like, made my own conclusions of what type of father he was. But it was definitely I had that memory of being like, stop talking bad about him.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah.

[C]

I always say that, like, my take is that everybody's a victim in the divorce. Like, your friends, your family, the children, the wife, the spouse, whoever. Because, like, in order to separate your assets, it's so expensive. And, like, you end up feeling like you're owed something or they did you wrong or, like, to prove or to do custody, establish that. Like, that's so hard.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, even long term on the kids and the parents, like, to be like, I'm not having that full time with your kids. So I just think, like, it. It forces everybody in the situation to what I said, go into survival mode and, like, protect each other. And, like, I think there's so much collateral damage across the way.

[D]

Yeah. I think about, like, the Valley last season compared to this season with just like Jesse and Michelle, like, obviously they still have stuff going on, but they're actually able. They're like, out of it enough now that they can, like, communicate with each other like people. And it's like you just watch with PK and Duri, like, they just cannot because of all of this assets and all of the lawyers. When you just. It's just like, sad when you get to that point in a relationship. And that's why with, like, you can't communicate with them.

[C]

And that's why with like, Kyle and like Mauricio and Mansky, like, them not divorcing, I don't see that as an issue because I know, like, I see what they're doing and how that is protecting their peace and their children's peace. And, like, I think that's like an approach that like, everybody's like, well, if you're not together divorce. And it's like, well, maybe it's not that simpler. And also maybe the path to, like, peace is, like, not rest.

[A]

Yeah. And again, there's so much we don't know about finance Kyle and Mauricio's relationship, but I don't think we can assume that they just fell out of love and there wasn't ever hurt on either side. Like, I guess what I, you know, I think you should. We need to give them credit because you. They clearly have gone out of their way to protect whatever relationship that still exists and whatever respect they still have for the sake of their family and their kids, which is paramount. And that's not easy to do. And like, I don't. Are you guys watching Friends and Neighbors at all? No, I watched it anyway. It reminds me of that because, like, the, the main. Jon Hand's character in the main family is, like, kind of honest. Gives, like the Amanskis a little bit. We're, like, very successful. They, they, they got divorced, but they're still very close. And, and that the show starts with he finds out his wife cheated on him and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, like, he still take, you know, there's a lot of respect and love with. Because. And again, like, there's a backstory and they both have their stories. And, you know, this is all to say there in that, in that show, there's a lot of hurt on both sides, but they've chose to look past that hurt. Hurt for the sake of whatever it is they're trying to preserve. And I think that's. Again, like, I think it's really awesome and cool. I'm sad that the relationship didn't fail, but I, I, I have. So what?

[B]

However they did it sad that the relationship didn't work.

[A]

Yeah. But I still have so much respect for how they have chosen to move forward because I. No doubt I've, I imagine, very difficult. And I think sometimes at the end of the day, people will choose themselves in a breakup.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I also think, like, just to wrap it up, like, I think, like, when there's divorces where there isn't really, like, a big, bad reason for the divorce, like, it kind of, like, pressures you to, like, make it seem like there is. You know what I mean? Maybe, like, with Kyle, Marisa, there might have not been that, but I also think.

[A]

Or maybe there was flip side.

[C]

Or maybe there was. On the flip side, there's divorces where, like, something bad did happen and it was good that that divorce happened.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And someone did Actually wrong someone.

[A]

Yeah. But I guess my point is, I think. I think at the end of the day, a divorce, everyone has their story. And I think sometimes.

[C]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[A]

I think sometimes there's degrees of severity. Right. But my point is, is like, you know, just because there could be a relationship that ended and it could. Could have been really painful for one or both parties, and they could still choose to not burn it all down. You know what I'm saying? You know, and. And there are people who all that happened to your point is there was a divorce. You know, someone asked for a divorce, and that. That alone made someone want to burn it all down.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But is you point out Jesse, Michelle, which is fascinating because obviously we had Michelle on, and it was basically like married to a monster type of interview. And it's crazy to see them get along so well this season. It was like. But wait, I thought, huh.

[D]

Well, it's like so well in quotation marks too, so.

[A]

Well.

[D]

Yeah, but obviously it's like, with the, like, listen, both my parents, like, were married and divorced before they got together. And like, all my siblings are half siblings and Stu from that. So, like, I'm no stranger to the dynamics of this. And I've watched my parents relationships with their, like, ex spouses, like, evolve over the years, especially with my siblings and stuff. And it's like, even like, I lived with that my whole life. And it's like you watch it and you watch people just like time. Like, it's just literally just like, it takes time to. It takes time and space to just, like, I don't know, evolve your opinion on something. Like, not saying they're great sometimes. These relationships are always bad, but you learn how to, like, deal with it for the sake of your children and your family.

[C]

It's also, you know, like, to play devil's advocate for Dorit on the show. Like, Rachel Zoe said it where she's like, sometimes in the moment, you literally just need to scream loud and, like, have your friends hear it.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Which is the burning it all down, you know, like, just in the moment, you just need to do that because that's the only way for you to survive.

[D]

Yeah. And people process that in, like, different ways, too.

[A]

Well, speaking of needing to talk to your friends, we're gonna break down the summer house episode. A lot of more Easter eggs. Just kind of. Just a lot of crazy moments that hug as someone who's not a hugger, and my wife reminds me, you need a good 20 second hug to feel the love that that was. Those two were connecting. They were.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

The connection of great love and respect. Anyways, we have Justin Sylvester with us to help us break it all down, down. And he's up next. Well, you guys know we got some twins on the way and that changes our calculus for our cars because now we need three car seats in a car. Not every car does that. So we earn the car market. And thank God we have car gurus because they make car shopping how it's meant to be. Simple, painless, and making a great purchase that you feel great about. Cargurus is the number one most visited online automotive marketplace in the United States. It's designed to help users buy and sell new or used vehicles. When you're making a big decision, you need a full picture. Cargurus delivers exactly that. Unbiased deal. Ratings, price and vehicle history. All the key details up front. You know, when you found the right car at the right price. Finally, car shopping with total confidence. It makes it so easy. We shop, we know what we're looking for. We get to compare prices. It takes all the stress out of it. We are so thankful for it. With more than 4 million listings, CarGurus has the biggest selection of cars. So it's easier than ever to find the right car at the right right deal. It's no wonder Cargurus is the number one most visited car shopping site according to similar web's estimated traffic data. Buy or sell your next car today with [e-mail] Go to CarGurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C A r g u r us.com cargurus.com well, I keep talking about trying to stay more healthy as I get older and become a father of twins. Three girls in the three. It's crazy. Well, Nature Sunshine's chlorophyll stick pads has been a great way for me to start my, my day. Chlorophyll, it's. I, you know, I don't know, I'm not a scientist, but I know it's really good for you. It helps cleanse your body. It's great for your gut. It tastes great. I mean, side note, tangent. To avoid drinking high sugary things, you have to find great tasting alternates because listen, water sometimes is boring. Well, the chlorophyll stick packs great tasting, delicious, incredibly good for you. Your digestive health is often overlooked and it's tough to operate when your gut feels out of balance. And that and ever since I've been starting my day with Nature Sunshine. I just feel a little bit more imbalanced. I just feel more awake, ready to go. Also that mid afternoon crash. Instead of having coffee have yourself a chlorophyll stick pack. It's just you'll feel fresh, you'll feel good. It's also tastes great. I also have it with lunch. You honestly have it a lot. Again way better than a cup of coffee. The chlorophyll stick packs have been great for me. It's just an absolute and also they come in these stick packs so it's easy to travel with. You can bring you packing your lunch or whatever. You can bring five put it in your cubicle. Honestly it's so easy to travel with. It's convenient, it tastes great. You bring it to the gym, whatever you want. Ingredients include plant based naturally cleaning, chlorophyll, no sugar, artificial sweetener, colors or which is something I really love. With over 16, 000 five star reviews, you know it's good. Get a daily detox with chlorophyll stick packs. Nature Sunshine is offering 20 off your first order plus free shipping. Go to naturesunshine.com and use promo code V I A L L at checkout. That's code V I A-L [e-mail] Owning a home is exciting, but it's also stressful because at some point a home system or appliance will break. Many homeowners experienced a breakdown in the last year year and without a home warranty, repairs can get expensive fast. That's why a home warranty from American Home Shield is such a smart move. American Home Shield helps protect your wallet from covered home systems and appliance breakdowns. No matter how old they are. From H Vac and plumbing to electrical systems and kitchen appliances, they've got a plan for you when things go wrong. No system or appliance is too old for AHS coverage. And as an added benefit to select plans, American Home Shield offers a video chat feature that lets you connect with a live repair expert expert to help assess or even fix an issue over the phone, which can be a huge help when you're not sure what's wrong. Don't worry, be warranty listeners can get 20 off select plans today. Just visit ahs.comvilefiles to sign up. See ahs.comcontracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations and exclusions. Justin we're always very happy to have you and super excited to have you. I mean obviously you're you're Keeping up with all things Bravo. And actually, I. Let's start with a little Atlanta, because there's so much to unpack with with Summer House. But, like, I, I, I haven't been keeping up with this season, but I just started watching. I always like to start where I am, and then I'll go back and watch the. The last line. What was that last line of the. The most recent episode when they were

[C]

like, oh, my God, you're. You're hot.

[D]

Hot cheese.

[C]

Hot Cheeto chili. Hot chili cheese. Frito pussy. I'm not gonna scissor that.

[F]

Can you believe that?

[D]

Amazing. Amazing.

[C]

I rewinded.

[F]

By the way, if you go back in history, Atlanta has given you some of the greatest memes, reads, and lines of your lifetime. Like OG Atlanta, before memes were even a thing. The nene and those girls would say back in the cut.

[D]

Okay, wig.

[F]

We still. Okay, wig. We still talk about it today. We still use them today. Atlanta is kind of a factory of

[C]

memes and lines, and that's why they did good bringing back Phaedra and Portia and Cynthia. Because you're bringing the OGs back to feel it.

[F]

Yeah. No. 100%. Although these new girls are kind of scary.

[C]

Oh, they're good.

[A]

Yeah. I'm loving Pinky Cole. I say this with caution because, like, a lot of people hate my fucking guts from watching tv, but I feel like I can read a person's energy through the screen. X and Pinky. Just like, there are people who I want to be friends with, and there are people who will be like, I don't need to be friends with them, and I would like to be friends with her. I would. And I would, I would not want

[B]

to get on her bad side.

[A]

On her bad side. I really respect from, like, the little bit I saw, I'm like, she's on her game.

[F]

I'm scared of K. Michelle.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

On vacation.

[F]

It's the quiet.

[C]

I love her.

[F]

Who I'm scared of. And also, have you seen love and hip hop?

[D]

No, I've not seen love and hip hop.

[F]

K. Michelle was on Love and hip hop for a long time. And when she goes off, she goes off.

[C]

She knows how to do it.

[F]

She knows how to do it.

[D]

She does give. Trained professional.

[F]

Yes.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

No, she gives. Trying to suppress my anger, because once it comes out, everybody can watch out. You know what I mean?

[C]

Also, her with the makeup, when she's like, I'm not going to go to the dinner. I don't have my glam, by the way. Boom, boom.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

Also, like, that's reality. Like, a lot of times people don't realize, like, your reality is, if I don't feel like I want to go somewhere, I'm going to sit my ass in this room and chill the fuck out. You don't have to go sit with six women and at a dinner party if you're not feeling it.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Cultivars.

[F]

Just go with it. Yeah. Put up your boundaries. Put up your goddamn boundaries.

[D]

Sometimes you're like, I will not be a pleasure to have in class, therefore I should not be there. You know?

[F]

Exactly.

[A]

On the flip side, though, as I always say, they may be your boundaries, but they're other people's inconveniences, and they don't have to like your boundaries. So while it might be reality, the other ladies might be like, I'm not so happy about this.

[F]

Yeah, we saw that on Beverly Hills this season. I always tell Kyle, get the fuck up and go. Just. By the way, what would they do if you just were like, you know what? I got a booty call.

[C]

I gotta go to Kyle.

[F]

Nothing. Yeah, they wouldn't do anything. Just get up and go.

[B]

Also. Yeah. Wait. Going to Beverly Hills when they were like, you left and you were gone for two hours and you're such an important part of. What were they saying? Like, this show and this. Like, we need you to be involved.

[F]

They needed her. You know what's interesting is when you're. Your storyline is the A storyline of the season. That's what they were saying. Like, Dorit is the A story. Her divorce, her thing with Amanda, her thing with Kyle, her thing with Sutton. She is kind of she and Bose's relationship, she and Rachel's relationship. She is the ligament this season. So when they say, we need you, we needed you to be there because you're the story, they really meant it. You know what I mean? They really meant it. Hit.

[A]

That bonus check's really going to hit. I wonder how much PK is going

[F]

to get of it, though, by the way. I mean, I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy.

[D]

The divorce stuff.

[F]

All of it. Going on a reality show and going through a divorce while you're on a reality show is probably the hardest thing. I'd rather get a colonoscopy after going to Chili.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

It's like.

[F]

It's polyp. Polyp, polyp, all of it.

[A]

No, it's literally like getting absolutely smashed the night before major surgery.

[F]

1,000%. And a lot of times, like, if you know a friend who's ever Been through a divorce. You guys are a little too young for this. They don't think straight.

[C]

My parents, we don't think.

[F]

They don't think straight at that moment. So to put a camera in your face and then you're thinking about what the audience is gonna think, but also you're angry and you're mad.

[C]

Like, survival mode.

[F]

You're in survival. No, no, you're spinning. You're in the spin cycle at that point.

[A]

Okay.

[F]

So I. I kind of give. I might give a break to do read on that because she is in the spin cycle right now, and she doesn't know how to get out of it.

[A]

When you say a break, do you mean her conduct throughout the reunion?

[F]

I mean her conduct throughout the year.

[A]

But she was. Throughout the year. Like, there were moments where I was like, I love. I love. She doesn't give a fuck. And I. You know, but like, I just felt there. Something about that reunion, the way that she showed up really kind of condensed what it must be like to try to communicate with Dorit in. In a point of contention. And it seems very exhausting and frustrating and almost like you could lose your goddamn mind.

[F]

Well, Andy Cohen lost his mind.

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

On the stage, he was like, oh, yeah. But we all have that friend. You know what I mean? We all have that friend that's like, girl, don't even waste your goddamn breath. She is about to annoy the shit out of you because she's not gonna take accountability. And it's like, going in circles. Circles. We all have that friend. Does it mean that we don't love our friend? No, it just means that we're not trying to have an adult conversation with that person right at that moment.

[C]

You just gotta take it.

[F]

You just gotta take it.

[D]

Yeah. It's also, at a certain point, it's like, if you know someone for so long and you decide you want to be friends with them, you just have to meet them where they're at and see who they are and, like, accept them for that. Because it's. If you don't like it, don't be friends with them or deal with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

100.

[A]

You know, isn't that the truth, though? Like, you know what they always say? As you get older, your circle gets smaller. And part of that is you're just like, you know what? You're not worth it anymore.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, because, like, when you're in your 20s, as long as they're willing to have fun with you, you know, if you like the same bar, you know, you're good, you're good.

[D]

Yeah, I got a lot of friends like that.

[F]

If they can get you into somewhere that you couldn't get yourself into, yeah, you're good.

[A]

When you're 40 and you both have kids and you get got problems, you know, you. And you need people to like to show up for you in meaningful moments, you. It. That calculus is very different.

[F]

It really is. And I have to say, like, you know, I. Kyle is my closest friend. She and I are like siblings. And I tell people all the time, we forget that housewives is a 10 month job. Like, you start filming in August, you're filming August, September, October, you're doing pickups. November, December, the show comes out in January, you're watching it and doing press. January, February, March. Then you're doing the reunion in April and then it concludes in May. You get a break in June and then you're in pre production in July. So there's not that much time for you to get over shit. So a lot of times you're bringing in all the old shit from the last season that you haven't gotten over and you're bringing it in with the audience's opinions about you.

[C]

You.

[F]

Yeah, so now you're going into the show and you're like, oh no, I need to change these people's opinions because they think I'm this, this and this. And then they think Kyle is this, this and this. So I'm gonna go heavy on that. And they don't even realize that they're doing it.

[A]

Justin, what is pre production look like? Is it just like cast members meeting with various producer producers to like in an update on lives and potential storylines?

[F]

That's exactly what it is. It's exactly that. And it, and by the way, it's, it just starts, it ramps it up, you know what I mean? It gets you back into that gameplay. So my suggestion is give these ladies maybe four more months off, maybe six more months off. Let them go live a little bit of life. Yeah, let's let somebody go have some sex out here. Like, you go find this.

[D]

Let them get their storylines.

[F]

Let them get their storyline.

[D]

It is hard to. Once you start thinking about how much they're filming and you realize it's like, what is reality TV if not talking about your actual life? But when your actual life is just working on this show, it just becomes

[F]

like, it's a lot, you know, where

[D]

does this stuff come from? And that's, I feel like what you get with Beverly Hills sometime where like the plot of the season is Basically just like the subtext of all of them being on the show together.

[F]

Yeah. And by the way, I don't mind that.

[D]

Not.

[F]

Look, if we're gonna break the fourth wall, let's break the motherfucking fourth wall. Let's not put a window in it. Let's not open a door. Let's break that bitch down and let us see what's going on. Because we do live in Hollywood. This is the entertainment capital of the world. We have actresses, we have singers. We have all these people on this show if the show is their life. Let's say, like, Dorit was two hours late to motherfucking filming. Let's show the crew sitting in the back with a timestamp, and let's go with that.

[D]

Yes. It also makes sense. Sense, like, tonally. Yeah. It makes sense tonally for Beverly Hills, too, because you are in Hollywood, and it is so much of the narrative of their lives.

[F]

100.

[D]

I don't know why they wouldn't just.

[A]

It's old school, new school.

[F]

It's old school, new school.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's kind of legit. They're still. They've been around so long. I think this is a challenge with any show that's been around for a while. They're not as nimble. And, like, it's. It's. Again, I kind of compared it to, like, you know, I've always said, like, you know, WWE wrestling is really a reality TV show. It's like one of the OG reality TV shows. They used to be like, no, it's real. Like, you know, they used to pretend it was real. And then at some point, I get. I'm not a huge fan. But at some point, the decision makers stopped pretending and just kind of, like, accepted that, like, everyone was fine with the fact that this is, you know, real. Ish. And there's storylines, you know, and you can still root for characters and you can still find yourself in the. You know, and it didn't take anything away from the show. In fact, it gave him. To your point, Justin, A lot more creative freedom.

[F]

100%.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

I watch people come back from the dead on wwe. Like, I literally saw a bitch come out of a coffin and into that ring. I'm cool with it. I thought he died last month, but I am. Okay. Like, I grew up with Young in

[B]

the wrestling resurrected, right?

[F]

Yeah. Yes. Got that resurrection stone from Harry Potter on usa.

[A]

The only challenge with that would be segue to Summer House is when you get an authentic storyline that we're getting from Summer House. And I said this in the top of the show, that for whatever, however you feel, wherever you land on this, however you are triggered, do not forget to appreciate what we are witnessing and experience of a fan of reality tv. Because this level of authenticity and to watch this back and every moment, every scene is like, locked in. Put your phone down. Television. Like, you just like, do not. Don't forget that. Right.

[F]

Because right when I tell you that editor, that bump of coke, that pack of cigarette, the PA that went out for that pack of cigarettes for that fucking editor. Because what that woman had to do to go back into that film and find those small moments where things were awkward or we saw some tension between Amanda and Wes. Like you're seeing that hug from last night.

[B]

Lingering.

[F]

That lingering hug. Or that mic pack that he tried to cover with a side. He's having these conversations like that editor that better win a Nobel Peace Prize

[B]

when she's trying to stop her husband from screaming and he comes up and grabs her waist and whispers in her ear and kisses her head right in front of Kyle.

[F]

Right.

[B]

Like. Right.

[F]

No, it's. It's all wild. And I can't imagine. I don't know why Kyle is not doing this, but he has to throw somebody under the bus so quick. Because I know for a fact that Kyle does not realize that the reason why he is acting out like this is because subconsciously he probably knew something was happening.

[C]

Oh, he would have had to.

[F]

He would have. What?

[D]

If that's happening in the house?

[F]

Yeah, if that's happening in the house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I have been more on the side of, like, not hyperbolic take things like that and. And more like, we. We don't need a physical affair to. There still could have. Just like. I think Lindsay Hubber said as much. Like there was clearly an emotional.

[F]

That's what I'm talking about.

[A]

But either way, I am getting. It's getting. Honestly, at this point, I'm like. I think they'd be fine. It is. It is. Really? I. I don't know that. Like, who knows? But it's.

[D]

It's whole quote of the episode. I think they'd be.

[C]

I mean, that forehead kiss, it's.

[F]

I don't think they were.

[A]

Probably not.

[F]

I think they were. I think they were gearing up. Yeah, I think they were.

[C]

Definitely.

[A]

They both knew.

[F]

They were both new.

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

It was simmering.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

Things were wet. Things were hard.

[D]

Slow burn.

[F]

Slow burn.

[A]

Which makes the betrayal of Sierra just, like, so. Just evil.

[F]

I mean, it's crazy. Let me ask you A question. How would you have felt if it was Bailey that had hooked up with Wes?

[A]

I probably wouldn't. Would have felt anything. I think she would have. I. I would. I would have almost been like, girl, you like stupid. What a rookie mistake. But there's no friendship. There's no connection. There's no loyalty. There's no, like, lying in a bedroom talking about your divorce. One of the most intimate things. Not getting relationship advice, you know, from Ciara. Who then? She's the middle. She's the messenger in this relationship. It's just.

[F]

Let me tell you something.

[A]

Yeah, go. Please, Justin, tell us something.

[F]

Unless that man has a G550 that I don't know about and a credit score of 1275, which is not even possible, and a home in Amaganza that connects to a home somewhere else, I do not get this whole thing. Okay? And this is what I mean with. Sometimes when you're in a reality show, you're in a bubble because that was the hottest man in proximity to you. Same thing with Tom Sandoval. You have many a bitches sending you blurry photos in your DMs. Just go for one of the other blurry photos that don't work in the same restaurant as you. Yeah, that doesn't.

[D]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Mean. I mean, you're right. But like, you, you. I mean, you do get though, right? I get less of west because, like, west, again, he's like having sex with half of America, you know?

[F]

Yeah. And it's. Yeah, yeah, I know.

[A]

Like, Amanda, I. I can at least connect the dots between, like, getting out of divorce and being scared to date. And here's this guy, for the first time in 10 years, is nice to her.

[B]

He's always been there for her, you

[A]

know, And I can't. I can't grapple with the. The. What's really up is this. Like, then there's some level of Sierra's attraction to west, obviously was something that, like, consciously, subconsciously, like what, like, sold Amanda.

[F]

It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, no, no, 100, you know, like. But I think that guy's like Voldemort. Like, I'm watching him talk to the women and he's like a snake. Like, he's like a snake charmer because that tongue is so good. Like, like, oh, you don't deserve that. And like, the way he speaks, he's

[C]

playing the bimbo card, which is attractive to people.

[F]

Yeah, the himbo.

[D]

Like, he's such a himbo, but he understands emotion.

[F]

He understands emotion. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Therapy literate.

[B]

Did y' all hear what he said to Dara at the party? This is the hottest outfit I have seen in this house in a really long time. A girl you used to hook up with.

[F]

Yes.

[B]

Who is now saying I love you to your boy.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Is the hottest outfit you've seen in a long time.

[F]

And let me tell you something.

[D]

Dressed up as the Laura racks.

[F]

And no. And by the way, that wasn't in the original final cut after this all happened. I bet that editor who did the bump of coke had the Red Bull and the pack of cigarettes that added it back in.

[B]

Yeah. She was like, wait, wait. I remember seeing something that definitely sounded a little weird. Let me go back and find that crazy. Just like another layer of disrespect. Like, if I'm kj, I'm like, dude, what the fuck?

[A]

Like, yeah.

[B]

Why would you say that to my girl?

[F]

That's really why.

[A]

He's kind of. It's kind of giving. Take me energy in a way. He needs to be. He needs to know he can.

[F]

I also want to know what they're going to do next season because, you know, when they announced this Love island thing, they said no Sierra was going to be back. They honestly. They sold the house that Tom Sandoval.

[C]

Her. Yeah, yeah.

[F]

No, no, they sold the house that.

[C]

That's right.

[F]

I think Bravo should put them in two separate houses across the street from one another. I think give Ciara Mia and their friends a house. Give Kyle and. Cause he seems to be fine with it. Amanda and Wes and Jesse, their own house. And obviously it's the Hamptons. They're gonna run into each other at parties and at clubs and at events and stuff. And maybe at the end of the season, make them cross the street and go to one per one house and have the final showdown or the first showdown down. But I think they should separate them because the summer house share is about being with friends and these people hate each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It is interesting that they're not filming in the same house or. We don't know that yet.

[F]

We don't know that it was put

[C]

up for an Airbnb or they were like renting it out. So we know that Bravo doesn't have it for the summer, but.

[F]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But for example, like the Bachelor house, like, they. A person owns it and he leases it, the production company. So just because it went up for sale doesn't mean it depends on who buys it, I guess. Yes.

[F]

Yeah. I mean, there's other houses in. In the Hamptons in the Hamptons. You know what I mean? Like, they could put them anywhere. I just think they should separate them for this season.

[C]

Would be interesting.

[F]

And then maybe bring them back the season after.

[B]

I mean, because we saw how much it just didn't work with the final season of Vanderpump when. When Ariana was like, I'm not filming with him. Like, I'm not going to be in the same room as him. I'm not going to talk to him. I don't want to do this. This. And I feel like Sierra is going to be the exact same way with west and Amanda.

[C]

As she should.

[A]

As she should. Forcing her boundaries.

[B]

Yeah. So it's like, how would this work?

[A]

She has no incentive not to.

[F]

I mean, it's wild.

[B]

Wild.

[F]

This. The fact that we're going through this again.

[A]

I know.

[F]

Is beyond my measurement.

[D]

It's just like, how do you think you're gonna get away with it? That's just, you know, I clearly didn't think.

[A]

I don't.

[D]

But it's like, why not?

[C]

You hosted the Met gala carpet with Sierra.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Did you guys talk about anything behind.

[F]

You know, I had a few questions that I wanted to ask her. Of course, you know, I had to do my thing. I. I'm a nosy ass black man, so I want to know, you know, the gays, you know, want to know.

[C]

I'd be asking.

[F]

I was asking everything.

[B]

Did you get anything for her?

[F]

I didn't get much. I got a feeling and a sense, you know, And I also wanted to. This is a whole new ball game for her, so I wanted to respect that boundary for her.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

And we're friendly, so I'm like, I'm gonna let you focus. But trust. Once that reunion's over, where do you land?

[A]

On Sierra's outing Jen Fessler on. On that whole alleged affair? I was more like, I don't know if it's true or not, but like, Sierra might end up, like, someday when she heals. Like, been like, I kind of didn't need to do that.

[F]

All is fair.

[A]

Okay. Burn the house down.

[F]

Burn the house down. If you see my man's dick, I'm pointing it out. I don't even care if you're his urologist, cuz I feel like something shady went on there. If he had a chubby in the urologist office, I'm putting your on blast. Okay? You get a two star on my Yelp review. Okay. When a girl's in heat like that, like when she's on fire, watch the out, by the way. And by the way, you didn't have to walk in the house. Jim Fessler, you. You could have said no comment. I hope they figure it out. Oh, poor them. I feel bad for everybody involved. Nope, you took a side. You got burned. Take a lick. Go ahead. But I think Jen Festo is loving it, too.

[A]

I don't think she is. I don't think she is.

[F]

You don't think. No, I think she's living for it. She's on Jeff Lewis today. She's doing something else tomorrow. I think she's living for it.

[D]

She is back in the press.

[B]

I don't think anyone would have heard what Jen. This is what I said on Tuesday. Would have heard what Jen Fessler said, and it would have changed anyone's mind. I think we all would have continued to roll our eyes and be like, jen, come on.

[F]

Exactly.

[A]

I mean, of course she didn't need to say it, but, like, she's on a red carpet, she gets asked a question. She thought she was, like, defending someone. Like, she's a friend of, you know, or maybe more. I don't know. But, like, I just don't know if the punish. I don't know if the punishment. Punishment meets the crime. But, hey, what do I know?

[D]

I mean, she probably said it because she, like, she knows everything about Summer House is getting picked up. She's, like, gonna say it because it'll hit.

[C]

Like, she's messy.

[D]

Yeah, she's trying to be messy.

[A]

I think you're. I don't know. I think you guys are overthinking. Reality TV stars and, like, their intention when they do red carpets.

[F]

I mean, I love it.

[A]

I don't think everyone is, like, some incredibly thirsty person. And some people are loyal and some people will defend a friend. And sometimes people in reality TV get a little exhaust with, like, say, like, Stan culture and the overreaction. And when they see someone they know.

[B]

I don't know, I have to disagree with that because I think they're on a red carpet. These interviewers on the red carpet know what is going to get picked up. They know what's trending right now. They know asking about Summer House is going to get a response and it's going to get clipped and it's going to get a headline. So when they ask that question, does these professionals, who's been doing this, Jen Fessler for years and years and years, years, knows that her response.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's a middle ground. Like, I was at the same event, did a. Did a Couple interviews. I was, you know, I'm. I think to myself, I'm always, like, mindful of it, careful. I'm like, if I really want to say something of note or meaning, I'll say it on my own show anyways. And, you know, we were. I was asked about the Bachelorette and the Bachelor and Taylor, Frankie, Paul, and it wasn't like that crazy, but I was like, it's 100 gonna get aired. And as soon as I said it, I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I probably didn't need to or say, you know, but like, it was just. I was feeling fun and like, you know, just trying to have, like a media training.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

But, you know, like, sometimes it's. Yeah.

[B]

Like you also followed it up with. And I don't know that for sure. I don't have an insider scoop. That's just me guessing. But I do think it's 100%.

[D]

But I don't like the same as

[A]

being like, I love Sierra, but listen, like, Wes is a golden retrieve. I don't know. I just don't know know if I don't. I don't know. It's not. Yeah, whatever.

[F]

Listen, you walk in the ring, if you get punched, you get punched, you get punched. You know what I mean? You want to play with the big kids, you're playing with the big kids.

[C]

I mean, she might be back on Jersey. I don't know about to be sure.

[F]

She might be back at the summer house.

[D]

Also, like, bring Jen Fessler to summer house.

[F]

I don't agree with people dying on the vine for things like this. Like the way. And I think that Wes is going to survive this. I don't think it's going to be this Tom Sandoval moment. I think that Wes is actually gonna survive this because he is not running and hiding. He's on his podcast. He's showing up every day. He's talking. I think that Wes is going to get out of this better than Tom did.

[A]

Interesting take.

[B]

Do you think Amanda will. I don't, because I think Amanda is the Tom Sandoval.

[F]

I think that Amanda is honestly going through an emotional time. I always tell celebrities, the more you put yourself out there when you're going through a scandal, the older the story's gonna get quicker. If you do something in January and you hide until August, the first thing that they're gonna say at your August premiere is, remember in January, first time spotted since caught cheating with X, Y and Z. But if you go out in January, February, March, April, May, by the time your movie premiere comes in August, no one is gonna come care about the fact that you did something despicable in January.

[A]

Honestly, you got to keep it moving. Incredible advice.

[F]

I literally tell people. When I was on Daily Pop, I would tell people all the time, like, if you're ever in a bind and you want to know what the media will say or think about you doing X, Y, and Z, please call me free of charge. I want to help you guys out. And what would happen is this big celebrity would call and be like, hey, I'm getting this. This, you know, from my publicist. Do you agree? A lot of the times I did, but a lot of the times, too, I was like, I think that's trash advice. Like, I think that you should do X, Y, and Z. So I always would offer that to people, especially in reality tv. And I. I'm gonna. By the way, I'm gonna send a proposal to Lawrence Sandra, because I think that she and Jeff Bezos need a little help with how to deal with the media.

[D]

What's your pitch for Lauren San Sanchez?

[C]

No, Matt Gala.

[F]

My pitch for Lauren Sanchez would be dress better. No, not. But, by the way, not. Not even. Not even. I would just. I would be like, I know that you have the 30 million, but you guys are doing too much too fast, and it's too furious. And when people are on a kick like this, you got to diversify, because giving, like, $100 million to all celebrity charities is great because it goes to charity, but you need to get that money somewhere else. You need to. To go to quieter places.

[C]

Grassroots.

[F]

Grassroots.

[A]

You might also. You need to serve the potatoes.

[F]

You got to serve the potatoes. Yes. Also, like, you don't have to show up to everything. Like, I don't need you at Paris Fashion Week, Milan Fashion Week, Met Gala, Academy Awards. Like, you got a space.

[A]

They're inviting people like us to that shit now.

[F]

You know what? You got it. Like, you got to chill. Yes.

[B]

At home.

[A]

Speaking of, so Ariana and Ariana Maddox and Carl Racky were on Watch what Happens Live last night. Got very, very interesting information that came out of it. But, like, as a side note. No, it's so fat. Like, my. My brain that was half paying attention. And honestly, like, I love the trajectory of Carl right now. He's got his soft bar. I was talking about the Vulture party, and I was like, you know, good for you, man. Like, everyone was kind of mocking this idea a couple years ago, and then, like, you know, like, culture shifted less and less. People are drinking. More and more people are looking for literally what you made. And, like, props to you, man. Like, you're really crushing. Carl's doing a lot of great things. And I say that with them. I'm about to say, is this like, Ariana has really risen above, like, the reality TV name? And I say this because, like, you know, as you guys know, watch what happens live. You know, they have two types of, like, guests, right? Major celebrity Lisa Kudrow or like a real one of a Bravo celebrity. Right, Right. Yeah. And I remember when. When they. When they announced the casting, in my brain, without thinking about this, I saw it as Carl Rackey, the reality TV star, casting and Ariana Manix, the major celebrity. And I was like, wait. And I'm watching. And I'm like, wait, Ariana's from Vanderpump? And it was just like, good for you, Ariana. My subconscious brain didn't see her as associated with Carl, which is crazy.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Isn't that cool?

[F]

It's cool. No, it's so cool. And I want the same energy America. Sierra Miller needs the same energy we gave Ariana.

[C]

Honestly, she's not going to.

[D]

She's on her way.

[F]

It's not happening fast enough for me. Okay. Put some gas in that fucking.

[D]

She's.

[A]

She's at the Met gala. She's. She's hosting after Sun. She's Dancing with the Stars.

[F]

She still has 800,000 followers on Instagram.

[C]

The Internet community.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And also it's like she's gorgeous and does magazine covers. She has a great Instagram for you to follow.

[B]

Yeah, she should definitely have a million.

[A]

That is crazy.

[D]

She should have like 10 follow.

[A]

Culture is like, not a thing though, anymore.

[F]

No, I just think that we need to get this girl to a million followers. Like, there is no reason why she should not. We. Everyone is talking about her right now. Like, there is nothing that people are talking about more than this woman. Why does she not have a million followers on Instagram? Because we all know once you get to that million, the door is open for you. The opportunity is open for you. The money gets bigger. Like, she need. Let's give it to her.

[A]

Yeah, that. That one. So much more aesthetically pleasing.

[F]

It really is. Meanwhile, I'm still stuck on 285 the Internet.

[B]

Follow Sierra and follow Justin.

[F]

Please, Please.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

A lot of people were saying that Ariana, like, defended Amanda and watch what happens live. I didn't see it that way. I just felt like she was empathizing with the situation, which is you know, when I was in, like, an unhealthy relationship, I would go to my. My girls and vent to them about how in ways that my man didn't show up for me.

[F]

Like.

[A]

Like, it's literally all she said. And like, you have, like, some people being like, I can't believe Ariana's defending Amanda. Like, it's. I don't know.

[F]

And it's. By the way, it's interesting because a few years back, if anyone said anything remotely nice about Tom or that Tom was maybe going through a hard time, you know, she was also one that would finish him. Mortal Kombat, that. And I didn't blame her. I didn't blame her.

[C]

She's greater.

[A]

It's not about blame. It's just more about being like, you

[F]

might feel differently someday, having some empathy, too. And going through something like that changes people. You know what I mean? Like, if you went through that publicly, you are not the same person you are.

[B]

How do you think Wes and Amanda are going to announce their inevitable, inevitable breakup?

[A]

Join State.

[F]

I had a friend who went through something similar. And when her husband told her that fiance told her that he was leaving her for her best friend and not best friend, good friend. It's our good friend. She took a week and then she came back, she met with both of them, and she was like, I don't care what you two do, but you motherfuckers better make it to the end. You better marry each other. You better have baby. Because at this point, if you're blowing up two relationships for. For a fling, like, you better marry. I think Wes and Amanda are probably going to be in this.

[C]

That's what I think, too.

[F]

They have to write.

[B]

That's 100.

[F]

They have to ride this out.

[B]

Yeah, but I think that's what I've been saying. I've been saying, they better be in love. They better be like, head over heels.

[C]

Make it work, my person.

[B]

But then to hear from the league video, to hear Amanda be like, you can't help who you like or who you're attracted to. I was like, no, the saying is you can't help who you love. That's the saying. So this is already off to a rocky start.

[F]

And that Yankees, that. Oh, that Yankees Day video. Oh, no. I was like, no, this is exactly

[A]

how it's gonna go down. Some version. And again, very reality tv almost reminds me of bachelor relationships where, like, you were just a aware of the social pressure of the relationship. And that is no matter how sincere you even want to be. And no matter how sincere it is, that does play a role. And at some point, west is just going to emotionally move on, but he is. He is going to fake it for a period of time because he knows that, like, even the part of him that cares about Amanda knows that he's going to be screwing her over and leaving her out to dry and leaving her truly alone. Amanda is going to fight tooth and nail and try to salvage this relationship because, like, she really is going to be alone. Which makes this episode. And hearing Kyle, like, you know, listen, Kyle is a bad. Maybe a bad husband, and he has to watch his words. But that was an emotional episode. And the way that, like, nothing will tear a man apart than that showing that vulnerability and have his partner who, like, when it comes to emotional connection, I think for both men and women, like, what makes an emotional connection is to know that, like, that person is your person who, like, bring, you know, like, that you open up to and they give a shit about you being emotionally down bad. And when you are opening up that way and that person is this stonewalling you, regardless of whether it's justified or not. Like, those were some real tears. He was doing the blubbering. The. It was.

[F]

No, no, no. He went through. We saw him have a break. Through and down at the same damn time. The thing with Kyle is. Is what? You know, and I'm. I always say this. When you are married to somebody and you are in a tense moment like that, I don't care if I disagree with my husband wholeheartedly, but in front of people, I'm going to have your back.

[A]

Yes.

[F]

Okay. Whether it's telling people to back up,

[C]

keep it under wraps.

[F]

Like, keep it under wraps. And then when I get home, I'mma say, you know, actually, I kind of agree with a little bit what they say, but I didn't want to say it in front of everybody.

[A]

That's the first thing she wants people to gain.

[B]

Television. That's not good.

[F]

Yeah, but no, no, it's not. It's not good television, but it also is. Amanda and Kyle are at the brink of what is left of their marriage. There is no meat left on that bone that is dry. It's a shank. And they are looking for reasons to get out of it. If Kyle had cheated on Amanda in a very public way, she would have left him three years ago. But he hadn't done that yet. Yet. You know what I mean? Like, she couldn't get out of the relationship because she was stuck in it. I don't know what they were bonded over, but they are literally at the fucking brink.

[B]

I definitely believe Kyle when he's like, you know, I get home from this stuff and she doesn't get up to kiss me. She doesn't say, like, how was it? How are you?

[A]

She fucking hates him. Yeah, she hates him.

[F]

They haven't had sex in seven years, right?

[A]

Yeah. And she said, what, a couple episodes ago? That was never even love in the relationship. It was like. And again, maybe that's just, like, projecting. Maybe that's, like, revisionist history. Who knows? I just thought it was really interesting when Kyle, like, literally under his breath and it didn't seem like he was doing it from the cameras, was like, kind of just being like, she can't do anything by herself. And I've heard. I think he's referenced that in the past. I've heard it on the streets outside of a TV show. It's just really interesting when you think about, again, west and Amanda and just again. Again, her decision tree was like, maybe she. Maybe Kyle's right, you know?

[F]

But hold on. Let me play the opposite. Let me play devil's advocate for a minute, please. If you have been married to somebody who stays out all night, gets lit, sure, you have been telling him that he can't party like that. He picks a career that literally has him doing the things that you have told him for a very long time, and you feel like he has not tried showing up as a partner. And listen to you, you know what? Skewer his ass. Yeah, you tell him, because I've been telling him this for the last nine years. Like, you're talking about somebody. Like, she's literally in a bed by herself, and he goes to the club and then realizes that, oh, I shouldn't have gone out, so I'm coming back here. How many times does that happen in the city to her and that we

[C]

don't know about at someone other's house?

[B]

That is true.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

And him leaving in last night's episode after that fight, leaving her at the house alone was also nuts.

[F]

It's also nuts. You know what? And I, by the way, I'm giving them equal blame because as an adult in your life, and I get it, you were on a reality show. You got the master bedroom. You were the married couple. Couple. You had the wedding. People were fangirling over you guys. So you felt the pressure to stay together. I totally understand it. But at some point, you gotta look at each other and be like, I have not slapped that coochie in six years, you have not kissed me in four. Should we call this right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At least now we are getting equal blame because it is honestly just more fun and refreshing now that, like, you know, it's, like, safe to, like, to pile on Amanda. Right. And now, now we're at least open to the possibility of being, like, not excusing any of Kyle's behavior, but, like, we're at least open to being like, he up, too.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe she wasn't the best partner either.

[A]

Yeah. Just empathizing with the fact that, like, maybe, you know.

[F]

Yeah, I'm not doing the bl. I'm not doing the thing that we do at society. We're going to go ham on the woman. Like, and I'm not saying that everybody's. That you guys are doing it. I'm saying that everybody is doing this thing right now. And.

[A]

No.

[F]

Yeah, I'm just not. I. I'm like that, like, yes, she up. Yes, she totally did. But I'm not gonna let her take the blame for Kyle, too.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

More importantly, Wes, because, like, I've been saying this past couple weeks that, like, I think after watching this episode, I don't think maybe west is as emotionally mature. Like, part of me is this, like, you know, he's one of those, like, kind of new, new aged men that kind of of like, relates to pod. He listens to podcast therapy speak and all these things. But, like, the way. The way he was just like.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

Like, I just, like, Sarah's kind of like, I. I thought she just hated me for two years, and turns out she kind of, like, deeply loved me. And it's all very confusing. Like, honestly, I don't know if that's an act or he's just like that emotionally stupid.

[C]

It's both.

[F]

You think it's both?

[C]

I think it's both.

[F]

But the thing is, like, you know, again, he's getting out in front of. Of it. He's not backing down. He's not hiding in the. In the wings.

[C]

Well, to your point, he's gaining the followers while everybody's turning on Amanda.

[F]

Exactly.

[C]

Which is crazy.

[A]

Well, because Wes is giving you a reason to follow and Amanda isn't.

[F]

But by the way, Amanda can't give you that right now because baby girl is going through a divorce and every woman in. In the world hates her.

[B]

Yeah. So didn't she post, like, a mirror picture the other day and, like, it just got flamed for it?

[C]

It was her first time posting in a while and she was out of game.

[D]

What the.

[F]

No.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

You know what? Take a photo of you walking into rehab being like, you guys, I need to. I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted, and I'm going to deal with my. Like, I. Give me that. Yeah, give me that. I can work with that.

[A]

I don't even think people would have sympathy for that.

[D]

They wouldn't.

[F]

It's really crazy.

[C]

Damn, the Internet.

[B]

It is.

[D]

It's such a. It's. It's such a. Interesting thing because you just watch. It's like, you. Have you guys ever seen. Seen that tweet where it's like, I don't support all women. Some of y' all bitches are very dumb. Yeah, it's like that with a man. Like, that is how I feel about Amanda. But then at the same time, it's so frustrating to watch, like, misogyny also do its thing in this because it's like, I want to be able to be a hater in the way that you should be a hater with this. It's just like, you're a person and you fudged up with people who care about you. But now I got to be like, okay, let's not send her death threats just because she's a woman.

[F]

Amen.

[D]

Like, I don't want to have to defend you. You. But it's like, if we're going to, like, be nicer to west about this than Amanda, what the fuck are we doing here?

[A]

Honest question. Maybe this is the 45 year old guy to me. How. How is people reacting to Amanda in the gross way and. And the women hitting women. Why is that misogyny's fault?

[D]

Why. Why is women hating women? Misogyny's fault?

[F]

Yeah. Oh, I think him.

[D]

Okay, so I think what happens a lot of the time is you have this thing called internalized misogyny where women grow up, up, like, being told that other women are the issue in relation to getting from men.

[C]

There's no food at home, the house is not clean. Like, it's just society saying, like, it's her fault.

[D]

Yeah, it's her fault. So then it's like when you see something happen with Amanda and she made this decision, she's the one that did it. She's the one that was more emotionally mature and should have known better than Wes, because Wes is this puppy dog as Jen Fester was a golden retriever. So it's like all of this narrative of, like, oh, well, west is just this some, like, stupid guy that doesn't have any sort of, like, capacity to take accountability for his own actions. Amanda, however, you are the issue. Like, you're the one that ruined all of this, so let's completely eviscerate you. And it's disgusting to see what you did. And, like, that is the. The rage it brings up in women specifically, because it's like, we should know better. You should know better versus just, like, treating her the same you would as a person, which is like, people are fucking.

[C]

And also, when it first broke, the images that they were using of Amanda are sexualized images, images of her, which is like, why are we using these images when, like, west is just fully closed?

[D]

Yeah. It's like an evil, cheating woman is, like, a great story to sell because it gets people invested. It gets, oh, my gosh, how could you do the worst thing that you've ever done that anyone could ever do? Which it's like, people, like, die. Like, there are people who kill other people, but, like, in bra. Like, there are bravo liberties who, like, have literally gone to jail, but we still support them. But then it's like, as soon as you cheat on someone, you're like, oh, you get die.

[A]

But also, question I. What is the definition of misogyny? And by the way, Mary, thank you for that very articulate and very passionate explanation.

[F]

Mary. That was like the white lady version of what you will know is that your baby daddy had to ejaculate into a cup so that he could buy a medium pizza so that you could have a baby. Now, check that. That's basically what that was.

[D]

Thank you very much. Means a lot.

[B]

The definition of misogyny. Misogyny refers to the fear or dislike of certain behaviors exhibited by women. Generally, misogynists hate how women behave, particularly when they exhibit their strength, independence, and ambition. So it is derived from the Greek language and means hatred of women.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. All right, that makes sense.

[D]

People do be hating women.

[A]

From the beautiful Greek.

[B]

Greek language, hatred of women.

[A]

So, yeah, we should definitely blame misogyny.

[F]

I'm doing it. I'm blaming it.

[B]

Case closed.

[A]

I think. I think that wraps it up. Right?

[C]

Wait, did we talk about the preview of Sierra kissing West, or did I not?

[A]

Well, this is the fact that. The fact that you could. Like from last night's episode, you have screenshots. There's, like, a photo Fl now they shared it. There's. You got a. You got west kissing Amanda, holding Amanda kissing Sierra all in the same episode. It's like, just first of all, so. Cigarette editor.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Bravo.

[B]

I feel like we should give her

[F]

a name by the way you know what her name is? Sal. Sally. Doing the Lord's work. Sal.

[B]

She is.

[D]

Round of applause for Sally and her drug addiction. That makes her a great editor.

[A]

Literally.

[B]

The kiss.

[A]

But truly diabolical.

[F]

Diabolical. But I'm also. Again, I'm sticking with. I don't think they were bumping uglies back then that summer.

[B]

I agreed.

[F]

I think this started early year.

[C]

Right.

[F]

And got blown up or late last year.

[B]

Do you think Sierra. They kiss. Sierra goes to Amanda and they have, like, a whole discussion about the kiss, and Amanda's, like, super. Like, Amanda's reaction to that is going to be very telling, I think, y'.

[F]

All. It's gonna be wild. This is going to be the wildest next three weeks until we get that first episode.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[F]

You know what I mean? Until we get that first episode. We are going to be.

[A]

And then we. But no. But then we roll right into in the city.

[F]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

So true. And them being like, we're picking up cameras, like, we're for. In the city, for following west and Amanda.

[D]

It's like Nora Efron's the Valley.

[A]

It's gonna be crazy. Addiction.

[F]

It really is.

[A]

It's wild.

[F]

Also, how the. Did Michelle end up with Dr. Drake? Can someone answer that question for me?

[D]

Oh, I don't know.

[A]

I don't know.

[D]

That's crazy.

[A]

Apparently, we were told he has very scary lawyers.

[F]

Oh, I. But no, no, I love it. I'm trying to figure out how they figure it out. Like, I'm just trying to. How do they meet?

[A]

Is that a thing? Is it an ongoing thing, or do they have lunch?

[C]

I think they were just friends holding hands to make sure he got to the car safely.

[A]

Baby girl, sometimes you just want to connect.

[B]

How old is Dr. Dre?

[D]

How old is.

[F]

If you're going to Nobu or Ebaldi.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

You want to be 61. That is your.

[A]

That's true. You're right. You. Like, if you're. If you're a professional celebrity, you know where you are in Arn. Not getting.

[B]

Wasn't Justin's like, are you not clocking it at Nobu?

[C]

Was it?

[B]

I feel like it was.

[F]

I feel like it was in Palm Springs.

[C]

I think it was, like, at Coachella now or something.

[A]

No, I know Wes played football, but now I'm thinking about it, like, he was definitely a high school quarterback. He had to have been.

[F]

Just the way he moves, the energy.

[A]

Just the way he moves where he's just like. He's like. He has to flirt with everyone. He just has to know he can and that it's not an excuse, but, like, that's what blows my mind. It's this cavalier again. Like, how does he move on, like, the comet towards Dara, and then, like, you know, you have one episode where he's just, like, laying it on thick with a bunch of women, two thirds of which are in relationships.

[F]

And that's coming from a former fuckboy here. Okay. So he knows the rhetoric. But I'm gonna ask you guys a scientific question, and this is purely for research purposes. Okay?

[B]

Okay.

[F]

Do you think it's the sex is

[D]

good between Mustard and Amanda?

[F]

No, Just the west of it all.

[D]

Oh.

[A]

You know, not necessarily.

[C]

I think so.

[B]

I feel like it has to be.

[C]

He has too much.

[D]

I don't think it is. I don't think it is hard.

[F]

Mary's saying no.

[C]

He has so much Riz. Like, it has to reflect in the body.

[A]

Riz has nothing to do with that.

[F]

Amen.

[D]

I think it's fine.

[B]

I think it's fine. I think it's a lot. A lot of the time. It's like really nasty. Drink, drunk sex.

[A]

I bet it's really selfish, honestly.

[F]

Oh, my God. He took the words out of my mouth.

[D]

I bet he claims to be an eater and like.

[F]

And doesn't do it and doesn't do

[D]

it or just like. No, that's like, a thing he says. You know what I mean? Even if he does it or not.

[A]

No, it's the classic.

[D]

Takes it.

[B]

No, it's the classic.

[A]

Did you come right after? He knows she didn't and he did.

[B]

No.

[F]

Oh, my God.

[B]

He wants to do 69 and be on the bottom. No, be on the top.

[F]

Let me tell you. Let me tell you. Let me tell you what it is. I think this text is meh and. But I think the before and after is what the girls are really attracted to. I think that. Let me make you a cocktail. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna come over, we're gonna sit by the fire. We're gonna have a deep conversation.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

Then we're gonna have this sex, and then I'm gonna stick around and we're gonna cuddle Efron. Yes.

[A]

And it's like that.

[F]

So we.

[B]

Okay.

[F]

Yes. Meh.

[C]

I think the Riz is what you're saying. I think it's the experience is what I was getting at.

[A]

Yeah, it's an overall positive experience. But, like, the. The is probably very selfish, very clunky. I don't even know if it's clunky. I think it's just selfish.

[D]

I think it's confident and like he knows what he's doing, but it's like, I don't think there's that much care in it. I don't think he's really trying super hard to be honest because like, I think he's just there.

[A]

Damn.

[F]

Mary is reading everybody today. Mary, what the fuck happened to you? Mary is on one today.

[D]

Thank you, Justin.

[F]

I'm here for. I support it.

[A]

Thank you, Justin. It's so. I mean, we love you. Thanks for coming by.

[F]

Thank you guys. I really appreciate it.

[A]

Justin Sylvester, thanks so much for coming. We love you. Where can everyone find you? I know.

[B]

All over.

[A]

All over the Internet.

[B]

Get them to a million.

[F]

Oh my God. Give me to a million followers. Justin A. Sylvester. And my podcast Yesterday's comes out every Tuesday morning. So much fun with Blake Luthor Thornton. You guys would really like it.

[B]

You're honestly, your social media has been so good recently. So like everyone needs to be following you.

[A]

It is really good.

[F]

Thank you. And can a get an ad? Can that sell some flat tummy tea?

[A]

Really looking forward to the invite.

[D]

Exactly.

[A]

Podcast, Justin. Yeah, me too.

[F]

Done. We're in.

[A]

Justin Sylvester, everybody. We love him. Thank you to all our guests, Justin Sylvester and Jake o' Kane, Esquire. We appreciate them and appreciate you all for listening. We have a big, big week lined up for you next week. Be sure to watch Perfect Match over the weekend if you haven't already. It's a great season. You're gonna enjoy it. Ali Luber Bravo of Bravo Lore is an absolute star. If you. She's so good in it. It's a really good show. So make sure you check it out and we will see you on Monday. Bye. Bye. The Val house is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing a budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates prices and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Everyone deserves to be connected. T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Our networks are coming together bringing more T mobile coverage all over the country. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20 versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is available in a US cellular store near you bigger network. The combination of T Mobiles and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage savings versus comparable Verizon plans, plus the costs of options, benefit plan features, and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third free line free via monthly bill credits. Credit Stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. If you're into tech, you'll love this. TikTok is a live lab where users post instant reviews of the latest trends. Download TikTok and check it out.