E1130 - Summer House Finale/In The City Premiere, DeMari Talks Perfect Match & Danny Darko Does Drag

Summary

The Viall Files — E1130 Summary

Summer House Finale / In The City Premiere / Damari from Perfect Match & Danny Darko Does Drag

Date: May 21, 2026
Host: Nick Viall (with Natalie Joy, Sierra Robinson, Justin, guest: Damari)

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Episode Overview

This episode is a Reality Recap special, diving deep into the finales and premieres of Bravo’s hottest shows: Summer House, In The City, and The Valley. Nick and the Household break down major drama, relationships, and cinematic TV moments, and are joined by Damari from Netflix’s Perfect Match for an insightful interview. The back half features heavy discussion about the Amanda-Kyle-West triangle saga, the evolving reality TV landscape, and sharp observations about cast dynamics and character intentions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bravo Reality TV Roundup

• In The City vs. The Valley

  • Nick prefers In The City for its “reality Sex and the City” vibes and the NYC hustle.
    “I think it’s so much better than the Valley… there’s something about the hustle and bustle of New York.” — Nick (03:18)
  • The Valley is criticized for a lack of authentic jobs and “people just bebop around.” Sierra observes that most In The City cast members have real professions, whereas The Valley’s stars seem directionless.

• Genuine Scenes & Cinematic Moments

  • The Amanda/Lindsay grocery store scene is praised for realism.
  • Natalie and Nick both agree some scenes gave off an authentic, intimate feel, unlike the more staged couch-and-bar scenes in other franchises.
  • Nick: “That felt like a real-life moment. It made me feel like I was watching a scripted show, in a good way.” (04:33)

• Amanda & Kyle: Separation and Emotional Rawness

  • Extensive discussion about the emotionally heavy Amanda-Kyle confrontation, airing out accusations of an “emotional affair” and the sense of eavesdropping on a too-private moment.
  • Natalie: “That whole scene, it felt like I shouldn’t be listening to this… But also, I’m so locked in.” (06:36)
  • Reflection on how vulnerability and commitment to the show make the drama transcendent.

• Trailer for Reunion: “It was cinematic art.” — Natalie (08:14)

  • Anticipation for the intensity of the upcoming reunion and its theater-like quality.

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2. The Valley & Social Media Fallout

• Unfollow Drama (Mormon Wives/Influencer Cast)

  • The hosts dissect who has unfollowed whom post-scandal, and agree unfollows genuinely carry meaning in this group: “They clearly use the follow and unfollow to communicate to each other and their audience.” — Nick (09:09)
  • Ongoing confusion around show titles and Mormon branding: “Why did we have to keep the Mormon of it all if it’s not going to be focused around that?” — Sierra (13:29)

• Spin-Off Fatigue & Cast Authenticity

  • The group laments how Real Housewives/Valley-style naming conventions are getting silly and notes most cast members aren’t even wives or practicing Mormons anymore.

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3. Perfect Match: Damari & the Game of Love

(Interview starts ~27:57)

• Damari’s Personality and TV Experience

  • Nick, Natalie, and Sierra gush about Damari’s presence: "Good looking in person. Very handsome man." — Nick (28:04)
  • Tall reality TV men and the quirks of “Chris” (the banded bar guy) make for playful banter.

• Relationship with Marissa: Chemistry and Conflict

  • Damari reflects on clicking early with Marissa but acknowledges quick escalation into argument and “toxic.”
    “I'm not a toxic guy... Maybe that's why it got so argumentative and toxic.” — Damari (33:30)
  • He shares the mutual decision dynamic during eliminations, revealing “It was Marissa’s decision through me, for sure.” (37:18)

• On Playing the Game vs. Finding Love

  • The group debates whether early matches are about strategy or real connection—Damari clarifies: "I'm not leaving, I'm cool. But I just want to go have a conversation." (35:14)

• Red Flags, Consistency, and Emotional Labor

  • Damari talks about relationships with “spicy women,” setting boundaries, and how he aims for stability and communication.
  • On his “ick”: people chewing with their mouth open, and “too sweet talk too early.”
  • On his reality TV presence: “You seem like a really, really good guy, man. Thank you.” — Nick (52:00)

• Dreams Outside TV

  • Damari models, acts, makes music: “A modern-day Hitch” is his dream role. J. Cole is his dream music collaborator.

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4. Post-Interview: Summer House, Amanda, West & Kyle

(Recap segments ~63:16 onward)

• Danny Darko Drag & Valley Dynamics
  • Danny’s erratic, drinking-fueled outbursts put the cast on edge. Panel debates if Janet’s gossipy behavior is ever justified by “right intentions,” ultimately agreeing weaponizing past mistakes is not OK.
  • Lacy’s dynamic with Jesse is dissected—public apologies are branded as infantilizing and performative.
  • Nia and Danny’s marriage comes under fire for on-camera disrespect and lack of resolution. Lala’s intervention is called “projecting,” and the group calls for more accountability: "If you have an issue with drinking, why keep drinking on camera?" — Sierra (71:16)

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5. Summer House & In The City: Amanda/Kyle/West Triangle

• Amanda-Kyle-West Emotional Arc

  • Amanda’s separation from Kyle is picked apart; is it a baby step or breadcrumbing a breakup?
  • Scenes outside of therapy and at dinner are praised for showing the messy (but real) process of ending a marriage.
  • "It humanizes Amanda in a way that doesn't make her an evil monster — just someone struggling with herself and her marriage." — Nick (93:02)
  • The group agrees Amanda was unable or unwilling to let Kyle process her choices (“You don’t have to agree with it!”), and that Kyle’s request for “back rent” was bizarre.

• West’s F*ckboy Behavior

  • West’s “emotionally stunted” or Machiavellian actions with both Sierra and Amanda are discussed, with consensus that he’s knowingly manipulative.
    "At this point, is West Wilson emotionally stunted and stupid, or just doesn’t give a fuck?" — Nick (86:55)
  • Forehead kisses and physical intimacy (“more intimate than a kiss on the lips?”) examined as part of the deception.

• Sierra & Amanda’s Friendship Fallout

  • The pain of realizing a friend didn’t care—or acted in their own self-interest—is described as the hardest part of heartbreak.
  • Nick: “What’s hardest about heartbreak...is the indifference of the other person.”
  • Speculation over who Amanda called first post-separation (West or Sierra).

• Reunion Trailer & Moral Reckoning

  • Panel expects the reunion to demand accountability and full ownership from Amanda and West, with any defensiveness likely to backfire.
  • "The only way is to just admit wrong, take your beatings..." — Justin & Natalie (122:12)
  • Amanda and West’s hiding of their relationship is viewed as selfish and destructive for the group.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Real Scene Praise:

  “I thought it was a great scene… I was so fucking locked in.” — Nick (05:16)

• On Amanda & Kyle's Emotional Convo:

  “That whole scene, it felt like I shouldn’t be listening to this…” — Natalie (06:36)

• Damari on Spicy Women:

  “I think my calmness… it’s an invitation.” — Damari (42:50)

• On Reality TV Soundtracks:

  “They seem to be missing the most is the soundtrack. That’s what makes Love Island so visceral…” — Nick (19:25)

• Damari’s Self-Awareness:

  “I understand the space that I take up… I know how powerful my tongue is. I don’t want to say something to you that is definite, because it can be.” — Damari (51:13)

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Memorable Sections & Timestamps

• Bravo Recap / The Valley & In The City (02:00-16:00)
• Perfect Match Debate (15:31-19:12)
• Damari Interview (27:57–63:16)
• Post-Interview, Danny Darko & Valley (63:16–80:30)
• Amanda/Kyle/West Deep Dive (80:30–119:30)
• Reunion Trailer Hype / Accountability (119:03–124:11)

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Tone & Flow

As always, the household brings a mix of humor, sharp analysis, empathetic introspection, and unfiltered hot gossip. Nick leads the crew through rapid-fire pop culture deep-dives, along with more heartfelt and vulnerable explorations of love and relationships, all in the signature Viall Files candid, conversational style. The group isn’t afraid to press for “hard truths,” but consistently maintains a tone of curiosity and empathy—even, and especially, toward flawed reality TV stars.

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Didn’t listen? Now you’re completely in the know on all the drama, relationships, and unforgettable moments from the Summer House Finale, In The City premiere, and Netflix’s Perfect Match, with expert context and real-world resonance from Nick Viall and the household.

Transcript

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[Damari]

Yeah.

[Nick]

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[Nick]

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[Sierra]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vile Files reality recap edition. I'm your host Nick, joined by my wife. She's back. Day two of feeling not bad.

[Sierra]

Not bad. Woo hoo.

[Nick]

Not bad. We also have Sierra Robinson is back joining the household today. Justin Sweet boy. Justin is also with us. Mary, are you online? Are you here? Can you.

[Natalie]

Don't let her schmeagle. Oh, no, it's bad.

[Nick]

That's crazy.

[Natalie]

Mary's lost her voice.

[Sierra]

Love you. Feel better.

[Damari]

Oh, my gosh.

[Justin]

She's trying.

[Nick]

Anyways, Mary's down bad. She's staying at home. She is apparently capable of working, so she is listening, taking notes, but she can't speak. But she is with us both in spirit and she's here kind of. We have a jam packed episode. Lots to talk about. Like, that was some of the best reality TV I watched last night with the finale of Summer House and the premiere of in the City. I'm super into in the City. I don't. I think it's so much better than the Valley. I don't know. Maybe. Okay. They have a bit of a cheat, I think, obviously, with all of the Scamander and the interest behind it. I think as someone who's always loved the vibe, like, I love a New York City centered show and I feel like in the City is really giving us like the chance, like a reality sex in the City type of vibe where we, you know, I love the relationships that we get to unpack. I love, like, you know, I think Justin, you're talking about the Summer House is more like singles and dating in the city is like, obviously Valley based. But I don't know, there's something about the, I don't know, the hustle and bustle of New York. Also. I feel like with Summer House, you know how they like list the jobs, you know, like west journalists, and you got Kyle, like CEO and even Amanda, creative director. Like, they're. And I think for the most part they're. They're like Sierra Nurse, like these real jobs. And I feel like in the Valley, they don't like, I don't know what any of them do. I know Jesse and Michelle do real estate.

[Sierra]

I know that I was gonna say the exact same thing. You were? Yeah. No, I'm just like, the thing with the Valley is that it's like you're kind of like watching people like bebop around where it's like they kind of have no purpose. Where. That was kind of my issue watching this season where I'm like, why are Schwartz and Michelle getting together in a salt room to talk about a trip to San Diego? This just doesn't happen where I'm like, New York. It's like, oh, they're at a bar and they're all talk about his, like, past dating. Life. And like, oh, he brought this girl over from New York. And it was just like, they're all involved, but they all, like, are like hard working people that are like, all right, we're out. We're. We're, you know, getting the full debrief.

[Nick]

You know what I thought was an amazing scene on in the City, the grocery store scene between Amanda and Lindsay. Because it's, you know, it's like that was like a real life moment. It seemed like they were literally grocery shopping every everyone else. Every other one of these shows, it's always like they're on a couch at home or they're like at a bar having a drink. Like, they're not like, doing things. There was something about them grocery shopping together and like a different type of scene that made it feel more like a. Like a. Almost like a scripted show in a way that.

[Natalie]

Or it's like, let's go on a hike. And then they stop as soon as they. And they're like, let's sit down on this bench. Like, let's finish our conversation and then we'll just go home.

[Nick]

I don't know. I just. I really love that. I thought it was great. I was so fucking locked in.

[Justin]

No, that's a good point. When she was like, I need some fruit, and I was like, oh, I need some fruit too. I said, you're right.

[Sierra]

It kind of feels like they fit the filming schedule into their actual lives versus their actual lives being fit into

[Justin]

a. I noticed this too, because recently with Salt Lake City, a lot of people have been posting, like, the girls just like waiting in a lobby before the cameras start with like lights set up. And it's like, it breaks the mysticism. But also it looks like they're waiting for the scene. For the scene.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Versus this looks like the camera showed up for the already pre existing event.

[Sierra]

All right, Lindsay and Amanda have 20 minutes. I guess we're doing this at the local bodega. Let's go.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Also just like, shout out to Amanda and Kyle. And I say that because, like, these people really like that thing, you know, talking about 10 years and everything they've gone through and the. The conversation they had where they separated. Like, I. I don't know, maybe that's the first time they had the conversation. Maybe it's like their on camera conversation. But these are two people who clearly have committed their lives to this show and this audience in a way that is authentic, that you just don't see that. I think with other really heartfelt, deep conversations. And I Just don't. Like, these people aren't actors. And I think the way that they have shown up for our entertainment is.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I feel like I was gonna say the. When Amanda. When they had released the statement, and she comes over to the house, and he's like, oh, you still have your key. And then he's like, you look really skinny. Are you eating? You know, like, that in that whole conversation, that whole scene, it did. It felt very like I shouldn't be listening to this. You know, like, this is, like a private conversation, and I feel like I should leave the room. But also, I'm so locked in on, like, hearing everything that the two of

[Nick]

you have to say, because we usually see them at the house up in the Hamptons, and now we're in their apartment. I know they've shown, like, a few times scenes like that, but this felt like. It really felt like a bts in a way that was very.

[Natalie]

And hearing Kyle be, like, watching Summer House back, it really seems like you had this emotional affair with him. And her reaction to that, it's just. It was wild. What do you think, Sierra?

[Sierra]

I agree. Like, I was, like. It was. It was interesting to watch because obviously, like, I have my little, like, critical, like, where I'm, like, breaking up or, like, confessing the truth to people where I'm like. I think being able to say, like. Like, when she was having that conversation with Kyle, it just kind of felt like she was. She couldn't say the actual truth. But at the same time, everything she was saying was truthful. At the same time, does that make sense? Like, two things can be trut the same time, where I'm like, you're admitting a lot. But at the same time, I do believe that you wanted things to work out. I do believe that you're sad that this marriage ended the way that it did. But I'm like. I'm also like. I. I don't know. Some of it was just, like, tough to watch. So to your point. Yeah, I do feel like I was, like, a part of a conversation.

[Nick]

Well, we will certainly break down the dirty details of the episodes of both episodes. Summer House in the City. We'll also get into the Valley. There's so much to unpack. We also have the new trailer for the reunion. One of the most intense trailers. I mean, that was.

[Natalie]

I felt like I. I felt like it was theater. It was Broadway. It was cinematic art.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Lots to get into. But before we do, we also have Damari from Perfect Match and great conversation with him. He is Caught up in a love affair with Marissa, who, if you remember, was on Love is Blind and you know, I wonder. Marissa love her. You know what? It's a dating show.

[Justin]

She.

[Nick]

First she's like, attached to Mari, and then she's like, making out with some other guy at the mixer. She's. I'm trying to. I'm trying to figure out Marissa anyway, I think so is Damari. We have a conversation with him to understand. Great guy. I really enjoyed my time with him. And he really seems like I really, really became a fan. More of a fan of him having had a chance to talk with him. And I'm excited for you guys to hear that interview before we get to the perfect match conversation. And Amari, did you. You guys sent me. Was it you, Justin? About which. Which Mormon wives have unfollowed or which ones follow Jordan and Dakota?

[Natalie]

Which.

[Nick]

I would mostly roll my eyes at this type of reporting in the. In the weeds reporting. But when it comes to this particularly group, particular group of people and women, they clearly use the follow and unfollow to communicate to each other and their audience. I would usually roll my eyes at this type of stuff, but I do feel like this kind of like, it's hard not to analyze why some of these women have unfollowed and some of them haven't unfollowed.

[Natalie]

So who is following?

[Justin]

Well, I was gonna say Nick rolls his eyes. I'm over here. Like, oh, my God. The amount of, like, energy. I. I applauded the amount of energy it needs for people to like, every day, every second, like, check who's, like, following who. It's just too many people to track anyways. So who's still following Dakota and Jordan are Jen, Affleck, Mikayla and Miranda.

[Natalie]

Interesting. Didn't see that coming.

[Justin]

It appears Macy recently unfollowed them.

[Natalie]

I just saw Jesse and Macy doing a, like, my ride or die reel together. And they were. I felt like her. Macy and Michaela, obviously last season were a really tight triangle.

[Nick]

I. We saw Justin and I saw Jesse, Macy, Layla and Miranda at the. The Get Out Hulu event. And they all seemed together and cohesive. There wasn't. There wasn't tension. They were, you know, they all seem aligned, so to speak. It didn't seem like they were like, it wasn't like a Jesse like, certainly. And Miranda and Laila doesn't follow them, but Miranda does.

[Sierra]

It would appear I'm like Mikayla, I guess I kind of understand in the sense of feuding with Taylor that I guess maybe she has some sort of different sighting because I just remember her and Jace saying the whole stuff with like there's more to the story or whatever when the whole Taylor story broke. But I'm just kind of like.

[Natalie]

But we've also heard Michaela say time and time again, I'm team the kids. And if you're team the kids, then why not unfollow both of them?

[Sierra]

Right? I mean, you're definitely choosing a side.

[Nick]

Yeah. Whatever's going on between you and Taylor Frankie Paul, if you're Michaela, like, to me there's not a question of whether like Dakota's problematic and if he's done things to harm his family. And obviously there's a lot of thoughts and feelings about Taylor Frankie Paul, whether she is a victim of his actions and this is a negative response, as terrible as it's been at times, or is she more of the. You know, everyone can debate that, but I just don't feel like amongst these women, like, I am surprised that they wouldn't want to distance themselves to Dakota. And the fact that some of them still follow Dakota and Jordan, they also very deliberate since they're like doesn't who I. There's a lot of people I follow that I don't fuck with because I don't, you know, I don't like, I don't use the unfollow.

[Justin]

Miranda doesn't. Doesn't follow them anymore. So I don't know if that was.

[Nick]

Oh, so that means I think that she. Guess she saw the post and someone's like, yo. And she.

[Natalie]

It's kind of like. It's kind of like when all the news broke about James Kennedy and Ali Luber and Nick and I got messages being like, hey, why are you still following James? And we were like, oh God. Yeah. Why are we like forgot all about that.

[Sierra]

Oops.

[Natalie]

Like, he hasn't posted in a couple weeks, so haven't seen him on my for you page. You know, so sometimes it takes someone like.

[Nick]

So Miranda has since unfollowed.

[Justin]

So Michaela also doesn't follow them anymore.

[Nick]

Okay. So Mikayla.

[Justin]

So I'm. I'm going through this like end up

[Sierra]

checking so nobody follows them anymore.

[Justin]

Well, it looks like they might have like since all the.

[Nick]

What about Jen Affleck?

[Justin]

That's what I'm checking right now.

[Sierra]

Yeah. She's on a whole different show now.

[Nick]

So I still not convinced she's on Orange County.

[Sierra]

I am. She bought a house in Newport. She's been living here for. Since Dancing with the Stars.

[Nick]

I Just I was told by a very involved person with that show that Zack, and I quote, zach fucked that up for her. And she wasn't like the only. The only. I don't think they're separated. And the only thing, I don't think anything official. Maybe I'm wrong, but the only thing that's come out is from Jen Affleck, not anything from the show. And why is it Hulu.

[Natalie]

Hulu has commented on Jyn's post being like, woohoo, love you, girl or something like that.

[Justin]

Jen does still follow both of them.

[Nick]

Okay, that's weird. Maybe she just doesn't care. Maybe she's unplugged. I don't know.

[Sierra]

Can I just have like one like random gripe about the OC spin off, please? If only one of the women are Mormon, like, why couldn't we still have this franchise but just be like Secret Lives of Influencer Wives or Secret Lives of like, why did we have to keep the Mormon of it all if they're. If it's not going to be focused around the fact that they do this mom talk? Plus being Mormon.

[Natalie]

That is true. It could be. It like Secret Lives could be the thing that.

[Nick]

Secret Lives Seawives.

[Sierra]

Exactly.

[Justin]

There are a couple people that are Mormon or ex Mormon on the cast, which is the same as this current cast where some of them weren't currently practicing Mormon technically.

[Natalie]

Majority of them aren't wives.

[Nick]

A lot of them aren't even married, you know.

[Natalie]

Well, they're not.

[Nick]

No, I know. But like Real Housewives of Whatever. Like a lot of them are.

[Justin]

Yeah. The definition is like evolving.

[Sierra]

Right? But it's like even then Real Housewives of like, when we just were changing the city. But I'm like Secret Lives of Whatever. But I'm just like, I just don't think we need to keep the Mormon of it all if that's not really the central focus.

[Justin]

Do we technically know the official title is Secret Lies in Mormon Wives Orange County? Because they've just been calling it oc.

[Sierra]

You can't just call it oc.

[Nick]

The streets have been saying oc.

[Sierra]

Yeah, just oc. Like Marissa and Ryan, Summer and Seth now.

[Justin]

You're right. It's Secret Lives of Mormon Lives Orange County.

[Sierra]

Secret Lives and Mormon Lives Orange county,

[Natalie]

which is the longest title to ever live. So I do feel like it needs to be shortened.

[Justin]

S L M W O C Slam up too much.

[Sierra]

So it's just something that bothers me where I'm just like. I feel like that franchise, we would totally get that they're connected. It just the name. If that's not the central focus, I'm fine with watching a bunch of influencer podcasters, public figures being out and about and what their lives are like. But, like, the Mormonism of it all just, like, doesn't need to be there where it makes sense. In Utah.

[Justin]

I'm excited regardless.

[Nick]

I. I hear it's going to be a great show.

[Sierra]

I'll watch it. I said that about in the City. I was like, yeah, I'm not watching that.

[Nick]

And I'm like, hooked in the City is amazing. Sierra, what are. What is catching your attention on Perfect Match?

[Sierra]

I think. Yeah, it's. It's. It's interesting. I'm still getting sucked in, you know, Jimmy P. Being the man about town and like, it's just. It's just a very different, different Jimmy. Yeah. Love is blind than I'm used to. Seeing Ali as a main character versus James's girlfriend has been very interesting.

[Justin]

It's also like, Ali bringing the love island. You know what I mean?

[Sierra]

Yeah. Her flirting and being goofy and just like. But like, all over the place. And, like, I love how much they're just kind of like drinking and having fun on this show, though. I'm like, they're literally just like, oh, I don't know. I'm watching them talk. Ali is so cute. I'm sorry.

[Justin]

Her vocal stem of hi, Jimmy. Jimmy.

[Sierra]

Going to, like, spy. And then being like, that was a terrible idea.

[Justin]

And then waving at Jimmy. Oh, my God, the other spying.

[Sierra]

So, yeah, Ali and Jimmy are the. Are what's catching my eye. But it's. It's weird recognizing people from other shows and seeing, like, how they unfold in this light. Does that.

[Justin]

Marissa, to me is like a different

[Sierra]

version of Marissa because she was so kind of like the straight character in there, in her couple from the military

[Justin]

knows what she wants.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

And then this one is just like, I'm jealous and I don't know why.

[Damari]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

So, well, she.

[Nick]

She claims to know what she wants, and that was Damari. And then she went to this mixer

[Natalie]

and fully just was played truth or dare once and was dared to make out with Weston. She was like, all right, guess I gotta do it. It's truth or dare.

[Nick]

And then she. Then she comes back. She's like, I gotta be honest with you. This happened. Now we're just gonna both forget it ever. Like, she completely.

[Natalie]

You can't be mad. We're not gonna talk.

[Nick]

It's like, yeah.

[Justin]

I have a question for the group. If you're locking down first episode or early in the experiment, Are you treating this as a game? Rather treating it as finding your perfect match. And I'm referencing Marissa and Damari, where it's like, from day one, they're like, okay, cool, we're together. But then now that they're kind of exploring other matches, they're like, well, we'll just ignore that, but let's stay together. Which to me, gives. I'm plotting to win.

[Sierra]

Right.

[Nick]

Marissa wasn't giving. Plotting to win for a TV show. And then maybe it's just, like, good performing on her part, but I don't think that's it. It was giving. I'm obsessed with this, man.

[Natalie]

Maybe just as soon as she walked in, she was like, yep. No, no, no. Yeah. Damari is the only one for me, you know? And she just was like, all right, this. If I'm going to, like, be here, this is my only. The only person.

[Nick]

I mean, that is a real thing because, like, when you are going on a love competition show, what the expectation to, like, pair up with someone. Like, I know, like, it's always hot people. Like, everyone has preferences and everyone has types. And, like, they're usually. You're just not into most people. And, yeah, there isn't usually the second

[Natalie]

someone opens their mouth, you're like, yep, never mind. You're.

[Nick]

You are hotter before you have, like, one. Yeah, you're. You're definitely, like, into maybe one person

[Natalie]

and you have to sleep next to them. Like, you have to share a room with these people. We have to sleep in the same bed as these people.

[Justin]

Get comfortable with them, I guess. But also, like, we voted Chris out because, like, we thought he was the one that was, like, treating this as a game. I think Jimmy literally told us, it's a game. I'm here to win.

[Sierra]

I was like. Even Ali was like, when Jimmy was talking to somebody else, and she was like, shit, I'm going home. I'm going home. So I'm like, there. I think it's very apparent that there is an element of this that, like, I might not find my husband here. But what is the prize? A trip.

[Natalie]

It's a trip with that person.

[Justin]

But do you remember last season? Last season, we were rooting for a different couple, and then just the random last couple got it.

[Sierra]

Yeah. The people that paired up at the last minute. So, you know, I just. Then I don't really understand the. The appeal, I guess, unless it's just TV time.

[Justin]

I just feel like it's not a show where you could Be like, you're not here for the right reasons. Yeah. It just doesn't apply to, like, the formats.

[Natalie]

That's why I feel like when people. Like, I felt like this was the first season that people weren't really getting that mad that the other person was making out at the mixer or doing whatever, because it's like, honestly, like, we weren't. It wasn't.

[Nick]

You know what I. You know, so many of these shows, Perfect Match, Bachelor in Paradise in the recent season have CL clearly tried to take from Love island. And what has worked for them. Right. But I think the thing that they seem to be missing the most is the soundtrack. I think that's what makes Love island so visceral and so, like, I don't know what it is. Last summer, like, so many reasons why I can't wait for Love island, but the soundtrack, like, I would. I would listen to that all the time. There's some good jams on there. They're finding new tunes and there's like. And then when you're listening to it, you. It connects you with what you watched. And it's like the music that, like, some of the, you know, it's mostly. It's royalty free, it's generic, and it is just not the same. Is like a hidden gem.

[Natalie]

Like, it's like. Remember when I think it was Love Is Mine? I think it was Jimmy P, but when they used Manchild, No Jimmy P. It wasn't.

[Nick]

Oh, my God.

[Justin]

What was. It was the most recent season. Who was it? It was the guy that he. He left the. The fitting.

[Sierra]

Oh, oh, oh. The woman. The Nomad. The. The Nomad.

[Natalie]

Who said the police.

[Justin]

What's Joe? It was Joe.

[Sierra]

I don't remember.

[Justin]

Joe was the one that walked away with the man.

[Natalie]

Oh, right.

[Sierra]

Okay.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

I remember they used that man child, Serena Carpenter, on, like, His Exit. It was like the last five seconds of the show and everyone was like, Netflix spent their bag to get that song and it was so worth it.

[Nick]

That's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know what this cost and, like, I don't know what Love island is paying to do this, but I really think that is because, like, why, when you watch, like, when you're watching Perfect Match vs Love island, you know, really, what is the difference? Why are the competitions on Love island so, like, fun and so, like, you're so, like, like, locked in. And I really think it's like, the music that heightens it up. There is something about that. These songs that we connect with or even if you haven't heard them, there's like, there's a difference between like great music that's produced by like, you know, it's like when you talented people versus like royalty free.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

When you see someone's Instagram ad on Instagram and it's like a reel and you can. Obviously they had to use royalty free music because the brand wasn't going to pay. And it like just doesn't hit the same.

[Nick]

Doesn't hit. And I'm just curious, when you're, when you're producing these shows, obviously budgets are involved. But like, I really, I really think that's part of the secret sauce of Love Island.

[Justin]

It is. But by the way, I went back and tried to watch. There's one specific scene of when Kaylor,

[Sierra]

I knew you were gonna bring this up because I.

[Justin]

That scene specifically to me always just like hit me so hard. I remember recording it on my phone and then I went back to watch it on Peacock and I was like, what is this music? I was like, this is not what I remember. Like, so I think they have, they pay for like a certain period. And then even the main song, if you go back and watch like the main theme song, I don't think it's the same for like season six or whatever it was.

[Sierra]

I also wonder because it's dreamed on Peacock and it's maybe Warner or Universal, NBC Universal and Universal Music Group that I'm like, I wonder if they get

[Justin]

those songs like for a specific time and then they have to change it. But yeah, I mean, it makes the difference because you watch it and you're like, wow, this emotional, like song just like hits.

[Nick]

Yeah, because like you're just. I just always wonder why sometimes it doesn't hit quite the same.

[Sierra]

No, you're. You're so right.

[Nick]

Anyway, we got a great conversation with Damari coming up next and you will definitely enjoy this conversation. He gets into all the things that are going on with him in the Perfect Match house with Marissa. Then he had his ex girlfriend show up. And that was a wild conversation. He answers all our questions and then coming out of that conversation, we are going to get into all things Summer, House in the city, the Valley, So much to break down. It was just wild television. So many Easter eggs to discuss. And we will do it coming out of Damari. Well, before we get to Damari, don't forget to sign up for Vile Files plus where all of our files episodes are ad free. Also, you get your reality recap Deep Dives where you dive deep into all your favorite reality TV topics or Pop Extra Roundup where we talk about our favorite pop cult culture topics going on in the zeitgeist of pop culture and your update specials. All your favorite updates from your Ass Nick episodes. So be sure to check that out. Just go to vilefiles.com to subscribe. You'll be glad that you did. Let's get to Damari.

[Natalie]

We have this beautiful, really cute, quaint, screened in porch sunroom vibe at the lake and I've been trying to figure out how I can furnish it and decorate it because it's kind of an awkward small space and I was like like trying to find all these pieces and it was too much and I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna go to Wayfair because I know I can find the exact piece that I'm looking for in the exact dimensions. And you know what I did? I found a beautiful couch, matching coffee table and now that is my favorite place to sit at the lake. Whether your style is modern, coastal, farmhouse or more minimal, Wayfair has options depending on the vibe that you want. I also like how easy the site is to navigate. I searched small spaces, furniture and there it was right there. Very easy. The filters, reviews and photos make it easier to find pieces that actually fit your space and your budget. You can get outdoor seating, patio, lighting, grills, rugs, decor, pretty much everything for your space in one place. And once your space starts feeling more put together, you naturally spend more time enjoying the outdoors. And we definitely have. I find myself drinking coffee out there, reading out there. Me and river play out there. It's just such a good like sunset, sunrise hangout place. So get prepped for patio season for way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W a Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every Home One of the best things in life is when you find a product in a moment that you need it and then you never stop using it. Like I found clear stem when I was pregnant with river and I was so stressed about my skin and what to put on it and what was safe. And I had a dear friend of mine recommend clear stem and I have not looked back since and I swear it is the reason my skin is the way it is today. It's a skincare brand that's designed to target acne and aging at the same time with clinically tested products made with zero pore clogging ingredients. That's why every single product that Clear Stem comes out with. I'm never like, oh, I'm scared to add this into my routine. I'm scared that it's going to make me break out. Because no pore clogging ingredients ever. Clear Stem protects you from acne and aging at the same time. They're the first clinically tested skincare products made with zero pore clogging ingredients. That's their clear pore promise. Clear Stem targets breakouts with a full internal and external routine of nutrition supplements, plus clinically effective top topical products. One of my favorites is the Clarity Serum. I'll use it till the end of time. I like will. I will just never stop. It's just so good. I see so many great results and I see what happens when I don't use it and it's not good. Discover the clear stim difference because clear skin changes everything, you know. We've been partnering with Clear Stem for a while now and we're so excited to share a new special offer for our listeners. Go to clearstem.com v I a l l and use code v I a l l at checkout and receive a free mini Hydro Glow plumping moisturizer when you spend 75 doll. That's C-L-E-A-R-S-T-E-M.com V I A L L and code V I A L L at checkout for a free gift with purchase when you order. $75 or more.

[Nick]

All right, you guys know I've always despised going the gym. I find it to be such a waste of time. And if you're like me and your life is just getting busier and busier, but you want to stay in shape, you need to check out Tonal gym. I got one for my parents up at the lake. They're absolutely obsessed with it. What I love about tonal, it is literally everyone I know who has one has said the same thing. It, it does everything. I don't care who you are, how old, how young you are, what your, like, experience is with working out. Maybe you're getting back into the gym. Maybe you are a extreme bodybuilder. Tonal has you covered. They have amazing workouts. It's so smart, you know, like, if you, once you start, it gives you a quick assessment. Tonal sets the right weight for every movement and adjust as you get stronger. Also another thing, when it comes to working out, you do a lot of, like, the same things over and over and then you don't get stronger. Right. So you'll Lift the same weights and you'll do the same reps. But tonal recognizes every exercise you do and will also increase weight as you go. So you're making advances as you work out. It's truly one of a kind. And it doesn't matter again what you're into. If you're into HIIT classes, bar classes, yoga classes, if you're in. If you want more mobility, more stretching, strength training, tonal has it all. Also, it's a very sleek design. It looks great in any home gym. What I like it again is like, it just, it helps me stay like doing new things, right. I've always used to be doing the same workouts and I was like, as I get older, I'm getting less range of motion. It's helping me again age more gracefully, to be honest. Right now, Tunnel is offering our listeners $200 off your tunnel purchase with promo code V I a l l that is tonal.com and use promo code v I a l l for $200 off your purchase. That's tonal.com promo code v I a l l For $200 off. Damari. Welcome to the show.

[Damari]

What's up guys?

[Nick]

I just want to tell everyone who's listening, he's his good looking in person.

[Damari]

Oh my God.

[Nick]

You're very handsome man.

[Damari]

Thank you, man.

[Natalie]

Very tall. Six five, six five. Made my husband look very short.

[Nick]

I'm six two.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Damari]

I think sometimes on screen I don't look as tall as I did.

[Nick]

No one does. Well, that's the thing about reality TV in general is that they cast tall men. Like in reality TV world, six two is, is mid. It's. It's average.

[Damari]

Jimmy was Jimmy, he personal. He was like, bro, I'm like six foot.

[Natalie]

He definitely did look very small.

[Damari]

Compared to stature and size, like everything, he looks small because like, I mean, you got Jimmy Sotos, who's a 64 basketball player, Ohio State, me, Yemen, also jacked. Even Chris. Chris is kind of jacked too.

[Nick]

He's not a small guy.

[Damari]

The only thing Chris used to do in the morning, first of all, he'd be shaving all morning. Cause he gets like chased.

[Nick]

He's got that five o' clock shadow on his chest.

[Damari]

He said he's a hairy dude. So he'd be shaving all morning and then he would be doing like these like banded bars.

[Nick]

Oh my God.

[Damari]

Somebody told you about that?

[Natalie]

No, we watch it on this show.

[Nick]

It's like they did a whole montage of.

[Natalie]

He kept leaving like one of the mixers or whatever to, like, go and do a couple more curls in the room. I mean, crazy.

[Nick]

I say this with love about Chris because I don't know if Chris was on our show Age of Attraction, so we got to know Chris. Chris.

[Damari]

Well, that's my guy. I like Chris. He's a fun guy.

[Nick]

He does his. And I say this with love. I think some of Quick Chris's quirks comes from a place of insecurity, as

[Damari]

a lot of ours.

[Nick]

Thank you. Is a lot of ours. Me too, girls. But he does it in a way that's so silly and so goofy. But you're just like. Well, maybe you are toxic, you know?

[Natalie]

But it's like a.

[Nick]

He's like, here's a purse. Marry me.

[Sierra]

The flag is red.

[Nick]

But you're like, this is so cute. Like, I like the red flag sometimes. Yeah, it's a cute.

[Damari]

It's a good shade, I guess, if you like fluorescent stuff. But, yeah, for sure.

[Natalie]

Well, you came into perfect match, and you were a hot commodity. You were definitely, like. A lot of the women had their eyes on you, and you locked in with Marissa very quickly.

[Nick]

Or. Or you could say Marissa locked in with you.

[Natalie]

Well, she did whisper to you, if you don't choose me, I'll fucking kill you.

[Damari]

You. Oh, okay. We got it.

[Nick]

He's like, oh.

[Sierra]

She was like, I thought I was gonna die.

[Nick]

Now, before we say anything else, we love Marissa. We've had the pleasure of interviewing her. We have met Marissa in person. She is a lovely person. We also love her mom for standing up for her on Love is Blind. Her mom, I believe, if my memory serves, is a. Has served for our country.

[Damari]

She has. Both of them have.

[Sierra]

She has.

[Nick]

As well as Marissa. So there is a certain level of grit behind there. And. And I don't think we quite saw that, because on Love is Blind, we saw Marissa. I forgot what his name was, but we all hated him. Ramsey Ramses. Yeah, the guy who, like, weirdly, was pressuring her. Yeah, that's right. He was pressuring, like. And so then we see. Now we see Marissa with a completely different man. You. This kind of. You bring in a great energy as well. You're. You're a giant man, but also a soft soul. And I. I've known you for 30 seconds. It was interesting to see Marissa as I described to Allison when we had a pleasure of interviewing her, that she was bringing. Don't ever leave me Because I'll find you. Energy from Wedding Crashers. How was it in the house with Marissa? Yeah. How did your Relationship start. And it did seem to kind of get a little argumentative and toxic fairly quickly. And you seemed a little uncomfortable with that.

[Damari]

Yeah, I've been through these things before, man. I don't really, like. I'm not a toxic guy. I am a person that if I have an issue, I can talk it out. I was very attracted to Marissa at first. When I first came in there, she was probably her and Allison, because Allison came in with Marissa, I believe they were both very attractive to me. So I was like, okay, all right. Well, I can see what's up with either one of them. And then me and Marissa just clicked naturally. Even, like, right at the beginning with the little mixer where everybody was kissing each other. It's a lot of kissing everybody in this show, man. I felt kind of disgusting, I'm not gonna lie. But anyway, stop being in Germany for a second so I can get back to the story.

[Nick]

It is different, though. You have to make out with a lot of people at once. It really takes the love out of it.

[Damari]

Ten people. Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Damn.

[Damari]

In, like, it had to be, like, 20 minutes. 10 people. Oh, my God. I was, like, drinking mouthwash.

[Nick]

No. Because by the 10th person, you're getting like that after kiss Taste.

[Damari]

Yeah. Especially if somebody else isn't handling doing their part of, like, the mouthwash or mints or gum or something.

[Natalie]

We got it. Yeah. You're all perfect professionals.

[Nick]

You got a lot white wine breath. Yuck.

[Damari]

You think white wine's worse than red?

[Nick]

In my experience.

[Natalie]

The sadness you just had.

[Damari]

I see you, like, reminiscing over there.

[Nick]

Something. Well, well, well. I learned this lesson in my first time on tv. Don't drink red wine. Because there I. I did a confessional, and I was like, nick, I had rotten teeth. It was all stained red. I never thought about it. Anyway, Yeah, I digress. It's gross either way. So you were making out with everybody.

[Damari]

Everyone, yeah. Making out with everyone. That was not. That was fun, but it wasn't at the same time. But anyway, me and Marissa, we did have a really good connection. I felt like we were clicking really fast, and maybe that's why it got so, like, a little argumentative and, like, toxic. And we would talk through it, obviously. Like, it would be stuff where it's off camera and stuff. And then we would be back.

[Nick]

Good.

[Damari]

And then the next time another challenge hits something or somebody else comes in, it's like, boom, right back to it. And I. I don't. I don't have an issue with really being, like, an insecure person. I'm very solid and in myself, especially to the surface. Like, you're not gonna be able to really find that out until you, like, get to know more things. I think that sometimes the threat of the looming possibility of somebody else coming in, like, interrupting or taking me from the situation or even just going on a date sometimes would be a little hard.

[Nick]

And, you know, and what was cool about, I guess, watching you and Marissa is because I think a lot of people watching it could relate to their own relationships because, like, you know, sometimes those arguments with couples, it comes again. It comes from a place of insecurity you can feel, and you want to calm your partner down, but at the same time, you want someone to kind of meet you at your level. And trying to find that balance must be very difficult when even though it might feel like you've known each other forever, you don't. You don't really have to in this environment. So how did you juggle both feeling this connection with Marissa versus maybe some of these little red flags that kept popping up?

[Damari]

Well, let me ask you, how did it look like I juggled it?

[Nick]

Pretty well.

[Damari]

Pretty well?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Damari]

Okay. All right. It didn't feel like I did. It felt like sometimes I was a little bit too far in the path of, like, yo, we can just fix this. Instead of it being like, I'm actually trying to cater to the situation or, like, what you're feeling in the moment. And I think sometimes that's more important.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Damari]

And that's something that I learned about myself is just being a man. I'm like, I'm solution based first. Like, we can just. I'm not leaving. Like, it's cool. You know what I mean? Like, I just want to go have a conversation, or this person wants to take me on a date. Why not? You know? What are we here for?

[Sierra]

Yeah. You are on Perfect Match.

[Damari]

We're on Perfect Match.

[Natalie]

You're trying to find your perfect match.

[Damari]

Exactly. I can't do that. If it's like, the match that I'm with isn't even, like, we'll talk about it and be like, yeah, it's cool. If somebody comes in, go do what you want to do. If you want to go on a date, that's fine. We're locked in right now. But if you want to go do that, I'm not going to tell you no. Yeah, but then somebody comes in, it's

[Nick]

like, end of the world.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Damari]

World War Three. Every time, it's like, bro, what am I going to do?

[Nick]

I'm going to go in sequential order here. When you eliminated Chris for, as they say, being the most insincere or less sincere. What? First of all, I thought you made the right decision. Okay, but how did you guys come to that decision to eliminate Chris over Jimmy? Because it ultimately was yours.

[Damari]

It was ultimately me at the end that had to say, you know what Chris is? I think, yeah, I think it's you. But I didn't know any background. So for me, I'm just seeing Chris as, like, this guy that we were talking about. He's like. I hate to put these words, bro, but, like, this is the best way I can say it is like a little love bombing. Like, first, it's very forward. He's knowing what he wants immediately. So that's all I'm seeing. Okay. He came in, kissed Mackenzie. They went to bed at, like, 6. So I'm like, okay, maybe this is really what he wants. Right? And then Kayla came in, and they really connected immediately. But they're like, bro, you aren't trying at all. You haven't even spoken to anyone else, had a conversation with anyone else. And once she was like. Marissa was like, jamari, like, think. Look at the situation. I'm like, well, at least Jimmy's been talking to everybody. He's going to try to at least figure it out. So, man, that was a hard one. Like, I don't know if you can see I was stressed.

[Natalie]

Well, Marissa also said, I'm not. She's not going home.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Damari]

Really? I don't even remember that. That's crazy.

[Nick]

But do you feel like even though Marissa was really going home for Jimmy,

[Sierra]

which makes her love is blind.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's her boy. But, like, do you feel like it was truly your decision, or do you feel like it was Marissa's decision through you?

[Damari]

It was Marissa's decision through me, for sure. Okay. When I thought back on it, when I was sitting there, I'm like. Like, that's the best decision to make. Honestly, she did make the right decision. She made the right decision. Like, I'm not too stubborn to be like, okay, maybe I'm wrong here, or just listen to my partner in the situation. Sometimes they know.

[Natalie]

Like, do you think that you would have explored any sort of path with Catherine had you and Marissa not been so locked in?

[Damari]

Me and Katherine are so close as, like, friends that that's such unchartered waters. Unchartered territory that I don't. I don't know if that would even work, honestly, but I would have if me And Marissa weren't Locke or, like, she came in second or whatever. I would have picked Catherine to stay. At least for her to be able to have an experience and figure out who she's.

[Nick]

Do you think that's kind of Katherine's. Let's say, kryptonite, where she seems. I mean, she's obviously a beautiful person, but she also kind of comes in and by her own definition is, like, weird and goofy and. Do you feel like she reads as everyone's, like, pal and friend, and almost, like, takes herself off the table in a, like, romantic way? Because it was surprising to see her having a hard time kind of really connect with any guy there.

[Damari]

I ain't gonna lie. I don't think it's her fault. I think these dudes were scared, man. Like, she's too attractive. Like, when she came in, it was like, everybody's looking like, oh, hell no. I need to, like, guard my man. You know what I mean? So she came in, and everybody's timid a little bit because they're like, yo, like, my girl. We're already talking about, like, basically, like, I can't leave, so. And Katherine's smoke show. So it's tough for you to. Could not pick her. If you're somebody that is actually, like, on the list or, like, she's find

[Natalie]

you attractive, who would you have picked if you and Marissa weren't so locked in?

[Damari]

Kayla.

[Sierra]

Really?

[Damari]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Natalie]

So was that a bummer to see her be sent home? Like, was that going to be an option for you, or were you.

[Damari]

We didn't even. Me and Kayla had just like, barely had any type of conversation because she saw how Marissa was as well. But we also were just, like, talking shit to each other. So she walks in, she tells me she's from Portland, and I'm like. And she's like, the fuck? She's like, where are you from? I said, indianapolis. She said, you had a good banter. Yeah, we had a really good banter. And I think that just made us kind of notice and be like, is there anything. I don't know. And then I know you guys saw the mixer, and then we got to have a conversation there.

[Nick]

Speaking of the mixer, I was a bit surprised that Marissa, after, like, really locking you down and setting your boundaries and really, like, letting you know how you're supposed to move, kind of leaned into, like, you know, with the mixer, it's always like, hey, we're playing spin the Bottle. We're playing truth or dare, like, these kid games, which, you know, I get It's a TV show, but it's always hilarious how everyone in these groups are like, oh, well, I guess we're playing spin the bottle. I. I guess we're just. My decisions aren't my own. Like, it's like, you know, what am I supposed to do?

[Damari]

Oh, my God. I'm not playing the game right now.

[Nick]

And I was like, yo, Marissa, like, you're, like, you're. You're up Damari's ass, like, telling him how he's supposed to move and, like, the first chance you get, you. And she was very upfront about it. She told you right away. But it was. She was kind of so dismissive.

[Damari]

I was like, oh, yeah?

[Nick]

Of how she moved.

[Damari]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Did you feel, like, not to use the word now then? I hate to using buzzwords, but, like, since it's 2026, did you feel a little gaslit in that moment where you're like, almost. Where you're like, did you want to say something, or did you want to, like, ask more questions about that? But, like, it just seemed like she bows through that confession in a way where you were like, yeah, I. You know, it was a game. It was. Anyways, I'm sorry.

[Natalie]

This was the moment where she was, like. She got very upset. She kind of started talking about, like, her trauma response and how she feels abandoned at. You know, like, it kind of got into, like, that sort of territory. So, yeah, what was.

[Damari]

I think the space just exposed a lot of small things that you don't really get to see in two weeks, three weeks. She. To go back to your question first, I think for me, I wasn't actually tripping or doing anything in the games because had my mixer not went how it went, if my ex wasn't in there, or even if she was, I would have been kissing people, too. Like, it is what it is. I mean, we're here to have a good time. It's cool. I wouldn't have been kissing people on the side. Now, that is interesting. That's too far. I feel like now, if you're doing it in the game, spin the bottle, whatever, it lands on you and another person, y' all kiss, whatever. But if it's, like, too much, obviously I'm gonna get to see you. But I wasn't really upset with that because we kind of talked about it a little. Like, well, if something happens in there and on that way, if it happens outside of the game, then that's a different story.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Damari]

I don't know. That's not my girlfriend. Like, I can't be mad at you for doing something.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Damari]

You're not my girlfriend.

[Natalie]

Yeah. You're like, partners.

[Damari]

We're also arguing all the time. It's like.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

What were you guys arguing about so much?

[Damari]

Oh, my God. I don't know. Even in that, I was so confused. I'm like, where is this coming from? Why are we always arguing? And I think I just pick really spicy women, man. I think. I think my calmness.

[Nick]

Well, I was just gonna ask that.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Damari]

It's an invitation.

[Nick]

Yeah. Do you feel like you seem grounded? You feel you very calm, in control of your emotions, and have you found that maybe some of the people you've dated almost that it. It.

[Damari]

Yep. Yeah.

[Nick]

It brings up an instant, like, if

[Natalie]

you don't pick me, I'll kill you kind of thing.

[Nick]

Like, why are you so calm? Namaari?

[Damari]

You know, that should have been, like, red flag. Let me get away from this. I'm like, interesting.

[Natalie]

No, I get it. I get it.

[Nick]

Oh, she has the danger. What was it like? Were you. How shocked were you to see Bri come in? Or did you kind of anticipate that might happen?

[Damari]

I anticipated that it might.

[Nick]

Right.

[Damari]

Because we don't have. We didn't have a. Like, a button to our relationship. Nothing ended it in terms of reality tv. So I was like, I don't know if they would be that messy. But then I'm like, this is reality tv. Like, the goal is to be messy, you know? So I'm like, I don't know. Maybe she'll be here, maybe she won't. But when I walked in and all 10 people came in and she wasn't in there, I was like. Like, you know, I had big sigh of relief. But when I saw her, that was interesting because we won the first challenge. I see her on the board, and I'm like, she's not getting in here. Not on my watch. I won. Why would I let you in here? You got to figure it out another way.

[Natalie]

You said at the singles, like, when she walked in, you're so funny on camera.

[Damari]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

What do you mean by that?

[Damari]

She said. She said, you're so funny. I don't know how it's been for you guys. If you ever just seen an ex in passing and you're like, oh, I know what I'm gonna do. And I see this person, you know, I know. I'm react. I'm cool. Like you said, I'm calm. I'm collected. I got this right. A hug. We hadn't even. Like, we were not on good terms at all. And for me to be, like, just trying to extend the olive branch without actually saying anything or having a conversation at all, because we hadn't spoke since we ended things in February of last year. So it. That was. That was. That was funny of me to do. It was very funny of me to do.

[Nick]

And it seemed like just reading the tea leaves of your conversation, ultimately, the demise of your relationship was, like, this kind of lack of communication, or it was kind of almost like. It seemed a lot like your relationship with Marissa, where it almost felt like you were constantly on your heels, but you never really understood why. You were always having to defend yourself. Where do you think that comes from?

[Damari]

Damn, you almost stumped me there. I don't. I don't. I don't know exactly. I think for me, I'm the type of person that is very communicative until I'm not. Until it's like I keep saying something. I keep telling you, please stop doing this. Please stop doing that. I don't want to be spoken to like that. Don't accuse me of these things. I'm here for you. I got you. Don't worry. Until it keeps happening. It's like, I'm gonna tell you, I need you to work on this as well. I need you to help me with this. But at the same time, like, I don't wanna sound like a victim, because I'm also, like, just as calm as I am. The trigger is good. Like, I still can flip it around and be like, yo, I'm not going for that right now. You know, I didn't establish that part quick, early enough for it to be like, hey, we're not doing that. And sometimes that.

[Nick]

That

[Damari]

instead of that, I would just close off. And I think that's a part of my problem after a while, not immediately,

[Nick]

when she was like, you know, she's coming at you. She's coming at you. She's like, having said all that, I still love you. Like, whoa. But you were like, I love you too. Now I imagine you meant it as like, I have love for you.

[Damari]

I have love for you. I have love for you. I have love for you.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Damari]

Okay.

[Nick]

Yes. Did she take it that way?

[Damari]

I don't know. Okay. We didn't really have that conversation.

[Natalie]

Well, next time y' all saw each other, it was. Y' all were making out, right? And you was.

[Damari]

You put some extra into it.

[Natalie]

Put some work.

[Damari]

Yeah, I made sure I know who that was.

[Natalie]

You're like, and I still love you. And then you're like. And I'm gonna give you the best kiss I've ever given you right now.

[Damari]

Yep.

[Nick]

Yep.

[Damari]

I'm an asshole, man. Yeah. He just gave me. Hell, yeah. I'm gonna give it right back to you. So that's what I'm saying. It's that.

[Nick]

Do you feel like you felt more understood by her? Like, did that conversation. Was it productive at all for where we were?

[Damari]

Absolutely.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Damari]

I didn't leave from that conversation feeling great at all. It's a lot that happened off of camera. And I left from that conversation feeling terrible. Then I went back, had another terrible conversation. So that night was just a lot for me.

[Nick]

Was that because you were feeling attacked?

[Damari]

Yeah, very much so. There were things that were talked about that shouldn't have ever been talked about on camera in that way. And like. Like family stuff.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Damari]

And I really didn't appreciate that. And they have been talked about in other spaces as well. And it just didn't sit with me. Correct. Because I would never do that to somebody.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Damari]

That put me in a very bad space mentally there. So it was productive in the sense of us at least having a conversation and me saying to her, like, I just didn't want to, like, do this anymore. It was never like, I'm cheating or I'm doing anything that's bad to you. I can't do this anymore. Because we aren't seeing eye to eye 98% of the times. Great times. When we're, like, when we were good. Amazing. Cloud nine. When we were bad. Oh, my God. Like, yeah. Like, we don't even speak for a day or a day and a half or something like that. It was not fun. Not because of me. I'm trying to resolve it.

[Natalie]

I think she talked about breaking up after her grandmother's funeral.

[Damari]

Right.

[Natalie]

And then she saw you at an event, and you were, like, flirting with every girl possible there. What is your recollection of that event?

[Damari]

I did not start to flirting until she left, by the way.

[Nick]

Respectful thing, so.

[Damari]

But I had conversations with people, and I think. I think in that space that we were in, she didn't want to see me talking to the women, you know? Sounds a little familiar, huh? But we were out, and it was a Knicks event, and I had got her invited there. And before I ever got invited, before that, she had put somebody else on the RSVP list because I had something to do earlier in the day. So she was thinking maybe I couldn't make it, but the other person still invited me. So I went. It was My friend that invited me and her there. And yeah, I was. I wasn't flirting until she left, but people did contact her and be like, yo, is that your man? Like, what is he outside doing? Like, he's talking to girls and all this stuff. So I understood. I got where she was frustrated in that moment. Now, what happened after, I wasn't too excited about. But, yeah, what happened after? She just went online and was like, immediately to the story, immediately to her TikTok immediately doing all this stuff just to try to make it look like I was doing stuff.

[Nick]

It's kind of coming at your character. Yeah.

[Damari]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, as men in 2026, I think we're all becoming more, you know, aware of how we come across and how we speak in relationships. And do you ever. Like, you're a big guy, you seem like you were. And this is in a good way, like, really hyper aware of. I don't. How can I say this? But, like, I think sometimes in reality tv, men aren't getting given the benefit of the doubt. You know, it's a. Generally a woman audience. And do you. Do you. Are you aware of that? Are you feeling that? Because it feels like you are, or is that just how you are in life where you are very calm? But I think you seem careful with your words, knowing that your words potentially are in, like. It seems like sometimes in these situations with these arguments you were having with the people you were matched with, and it seemed like they care about you, but almost like they wanted to attack you to get you off your toes. But you really never seem to buy, like, take the bait. And have you learned that lesson in life? Like, I imagine you've had to learn that the hard way over the years.

[Damari]

Absolutely. Like, growing up as a. First of all, I've always been a big. Like, I was a big kid, so I understand the space that I take up. I'm six five, I'm 240 pounds. I, like, bri is five foot one zero five. You know what I mean? Like, I can't do too much to this situation, especially not, like, yelling or physically or anything like that, because, like, what are you doing? Like, this doesn't even. It doesn't actually suit or help at all. But like, you're saying, I understand the space that I take up, but I also am very careful with my words because of, like, I had anger issues as a child. I grew up in environments that weren't maybe suitable for a kid and had to grow up really quickly and had to deal with a lot of different emotional spaces and death and all those things. So it made me into a person that when I'm speaking these words, I know how powerful my tongue is. And I don't want to say something to you that is definite, because it can be, you know.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You seem like a really, really good guy, man. Time. Thank you, man.

[Damari]

I appreciate it. I try. I mean, I'm. I fall. I do things wrong as well.

[Nick]

But we're all human. Yeah. But it's like, you know, I think and I. And I talk about this. There's just so many bad examples of. Of men on tv. So it's always good to see someone like yourself who, again, I think sometimes there's always this. The excuse of letting our emotions get the best of us. But you. You. You. Seeing you on the show, you're an example of someone who can feel triggered, you know, get attacked, but still, like, take a pause before you speak in a way that, like you said, you're aware of your space. You're aware of how you can come across. And you've gotten to the point in your life where you're not using that as an excuse anymore. You are just owning who you are and how people see you and then moving forward, which I think is just a great example of a maturity and getting older. And it's just really cool to see because we don't. We don't. Especially on, like, Too Hot to Handle. In Perfect Match, we're just never. It's usually just the exact opposite, and we lean into where. So it's. It's. It's really cool to see, man.

[Damari]

Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. It's. It was hard to navigate it sometimes just because of the space that we're in. And especially, like, I don't know you really. Like, you don't know me. You don't know what actually triggers me unless I tell you. I don't know what triggers you unless you tell me.

[Natalie]

So were y' all having those deep conversations, maybe at night or off camera?

[Damari]

Yeah, we really did. I think that allowed me and Marissa to actually be able to navigate that a little. A little bit better, where I may fall short in some of those moments. And she can tell me, actually, in the moment. Like, I don't like that. Don't do that. Or I can be like, yo, please stop talking over me. Like, there's.

[Justin]

This is.

[Damari]

There's no way I can have a conversation with you if you're gonna continue to talk over me or. Or not even let me finish my statement. Cause the point Was right here.

[Nick]

Yeah, there was that part where you're like, you keep interrupting me and I

[Damari]

haven't, you know, I'm being quiet. I'm just like. When you guys are talking, I'm sitting here, I'm looking at you, I'm allowing you to speak.

[Sierra]

Yeah, it's how a conversation goes.

[Damari]

That's how a conversation goes. Right.

[Natalie]

I thought I have to tell Nick all this time. Your turn.

[Nick]

No, go ahead.

[Natalie]

It's your turn. Oh, wait.

[Damari]

That's a great problem to have, though, because you guys, like, actually value each other's. You know, like, you value each other's space. You value each other's space.

[Nick]

And as I will say, as someone who, like yourself, early in my dating life enjoyed the company of a spicy woman, often would turn into conflict that I was just like, what's going on? What are we fighting about? And it was fun. We were watching it, and Allie pointed out that she doesn't do that.

[Damari]

Granted, when you're in it, yeah, it's hard.

[Nick]

You're fine. But as someone, I don't know where you are in your love journey, I don't know how it ends. Maybe you're with Marissa, maybe you're not. It is possible to find a strong, spicy, you know, confident woman who isn't always argumentative and is comfortable in their skin. And it took me a lifetime to find it. I think I'm a lot. I think I'm a lot older than you, but you can. I'm 45. Damn.

[Natalie]

Sorry. Sorry.

[Damari]

Good. Damn. Good.

[Natalie]

Damn.

[Nick]

But, yeah, yeah, it is possible. And it took. It literally took me a lifetime to. To figure that out because I was always drawn to the. I like the pushback. I like to be challenged. I like to, you know, I'm not doing things to, like, just have be put in my place, but I like to know that I want to find my equal. And to find your equal. Sometimes I've made the mistake of finding that argumentative person.

[Damari]

It's a little too far. The balance is off. Yeah, my mom is a spicy lady. You know what I mean? Like, she's not going for it. So, like, I think naturally, just really, all the women in my family, they ain't going for it. I have never met, like, a real passive woman in my life, you know? So for me, that's probably why. That's probably one of those reasons why I end up, like, chasing those types of things. And as my mom has gotten older, she's become a lot more calm, and that has helped as well to see, like, oh, damn. Okay. Or even just my experiences with women and being in relationships where I'm like, oh, you're not spicy enough. Like, I need a little bit more. I feel like I can do whatever I want to here. I don't want to feel like I can't do anything, but I don't want to feel I can just get away with anything. You got to not be going for that. For me, that's. That's a real big thing. Like, because I'm not.

[Natalie]

I'm not like a little jealousy. A little.

[Damari]

Not jealousy, but like just like someone

[Nick]

who's going to tell you exactly what they.

[Sierra]

You want to be bossed around a little bit.

[Damari]

I want you to.

[Nick]

You.

[Damari]

I want you to know what you want.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Damari]

I want you to know what you don't want as well.

[Nick]

It's like I want someone who's very clear with their expectations of me but is consistent with those expectations. Because sometimes it's.

[Damari]

If it's not.

[Nick]

Yeah, you're like, what I'm. Huh? I did what thing you told me to do and why is it. You know. And then when it's not consistent, it feels like it's just argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. And that's where I. I would get lost and I. I found myself in you a little bit watching it.

[Damari]

Thank you. I enjoy.

[Nick]

What's your biggest relationship? Ick.

[Damari]

Relationship ick. My biggest ick in the. In the world, period. I don't like when people, like when they. When they chew and they chew with their mouth open. That's like my biggest thing. That date is not going to go well the rest of the time. I hate doing that. So the other people is like. But relationship is take. If it's too early and you're like, like, babe, baby. All that. Like the, the too sweet talk too early.

[Natalie]

You don't like pet names early on?

[Nick]

No, I just don't like baby talk, period.

[Natalie]

It doesn't sound like baby.

[Damari]

You don't like it at all.

[Nick]

Baby talk.

[Damari]

Like, not like baby something, but like. Like people calling you babe.

[Nick]

Oh, I like the pet name Early.

[Damari]

No, like, yeah, like, it's kind of weird. It's like. So you're doing that to everybody.

[Nick]

Wait till you get to know me, babe.

[Natalie]

Yeah. In what world am I your baby at? That's not. We're not there. Yeah.

[Damari]

Or even like a love bomber to love. Love too early. Like somebody saying, I love you too early. That really bothers me. You're insane.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I agree. Hard agree.

[Damari]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I feel like, you've gotten that a lot.

[Damari]

I have, Yeah. I don't like it. I don't like it.

[Nick]

They're trying to lock him down.

[Damari]

I've ended some. Some situationships because of that. A few times. I don't like those things.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Sierra]

Yes.

[Natalie]

We got cut through throat.

[Damari]

I don't like it, man. It's not cool. It's not cool because you don't. You don't. Because I feel like love is so almost not exactly unconditional, but it's there. It's right on that line.

[Nick]

Huh?

[Damari]

You know that after two months. You don't know that. Unconditional in two months. That's crazy.

[Natalie]

I really, really, really like you and really enjoy the way you make me feel and like spending time around you.

[Sierra]

But that's a different thing.

[Damari]

That's completely different. Yeah, I do that as well. I like that as well.

[Nick]

When you're not making good tv. What are you doing doing outside? What do you do for, like, work? What.

[Damari]

What is modeling? Acting. And I make music as well.

[Nick]

Okay, cool.

[Damari]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Natalie]

What kind of music?

[Damari]

Rap. Nice.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Damari]

I got to rap a little bit on two out the Handle.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

What would be your dream acting role?

[Damari]

Hitch.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Nick]

A modern day Hitch.

[Damari]

I absolutely love Will Smith, so I would play any role that Will Smith has played. Even Wild Wild West.

[Nick]

But now he gave up the Matrix for that.

[Justin]

That

[Nick]

he could have been Neil.

[Damari]

Never mind. Actually, yeah.

[Natalie]

Who's your dream future?

[Damari]

Ooh, dream feature. Okay, we'll just go with my favorite artist. Jcole. J. Cole.

[Justin]

You hear that? Jcole.

[Damari]

Jcole.

[Justin]

Get on the track.

[Damari]

Or Alicia Keys. Oh, that be fire.

[Nick]

Well, Damari, it's been a fun, fun time getting to know you. I wish you the best of luck the rest of the way. Whether it's Marissa. Happy for you too. If that's how it happens. It's fun to see men like yourself represent men on TV in a way that we always don't get to see. So I appreciate you and thanks for coming on.

[Damari]

Thank you, brother. Thank you guys for having me.

[Nick]

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[Natalie]

Very kind, too. Very tall.

[Justin]

He is very kind. Yeah. I always say when people walk in the room and address everybody around them, like, he did that.

[Nick]

Yeah, he's a catch.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

It's understandable why Marissa was like, if you don't match with me, I'll fucking kill you. Seconds they saw each other.

[Justin]

We would all do it.

[Natalie]

We would all do it.

[Nick]

Well, Danny Darko is. I'm so confused, you know, like, it's also frustrating that, you know, Janet is going to feel vindicated.

[Sierra]

I tried to say, like, even to my friend, she was like, I guess Janet was right. And I was like, well, maybe Jasmine. I don't know, like, Jasmine. I think it was just the. Janet interjected herself in a situation that she wasn't involved in and made it about her. So that's why she was annoying for that. But it is like, yeah, you are semi validated because Danny's behavior is.

[Nick]

I think with Janet, for me, it comes like. I just. It doesn't feel like she has good intentions for people. I don't feel like when she is calling anyone out, it's coming from a place of yo, like, hey, I don't think you should act this way. She has been accused multiple times of, like, digging up dirt on people. And all I have to say is if that's true. True. I just think that's one of the most deplorable things anyone in reality TV can do for. To weaponize your past or mistakes that you've made, especially if you have tried to, like, right your wrongs and do your work. And if, if, if Janet is actually doing that, if she is just constantly going on Reddit and reading rumors about people, whether true or not, and then throwing it in their face at its most convenient time. Maybe she's not doing it. She hasn't fully. She hasn't really denied it. And so, like, whether she's right or wrong about Dani, I think that's the thing that's hard to digest when it comes to Janet, because I think that's just really cruel behavior if that is happening.

[Justin]

I think she had the right intentions but went about it the wrong way. And that's why last season, people were like, why are you butting into this? But this season, we're like, okay, like, we've all now experienced this and seen it.

[Sierra]

But even the conversation she had with Lacy where Lacy was like, I don't appreciate the mean girl behavior. You said you read on Reddit that I and made fun of me for auditioning for Real Housewives, but then she did her itm.

[Justin]

Her confessional and said, I did audition for the Housewives.

[Sierra]

She did. But I'm like, why is that something to make fun of Janet?

[Nick]

Just because Lacy wasn't hurt by that and she owned it doesn't mean that Janet's intention wasn't to try to hurt her. And that's the thing is Janet is trying to hurt people to make herself if. If that's what's happening. Yeah.

[Justin]

And by the way, I love Lacy, but I did giggle when she was like, I did try out for it. And also I'm like, you did send the cease and desist. So I'm like, janet. Janet wasn't lying with that stuff, but she did go about it in a way that I was like, you didn't have to bring that up.

[Sierra]

Exactly.

[Justin]

Yeah, I do like Lacey. I like them all. But I do like. I like Lacy being like, apologize.

[Sierra]

I hated that. That was awful.

[Natalie]

That was the most annoying. If Nick and I are ever in a public setting with a bunch of people and he thinks I did something wrong, you better pull me aside. You better get in the car with me. When we are alone and be like, call that person later. The way that she. She's like, apologize right now. Apologize right now. It felt like she's talking to her toddler who just threw a block and hit somebody in the head and, like, not her partner who she sees as her equal. It felt so you just.

[Sierra]

So you just nailed it. You just nailed it on the head. That's why this is an interesting relationship to watch. She does not like him.

[Justin]

No, she likes Jesse.

[Sierra]

It's just.

[Justin]

She, like, I think they like each other.

[Sierra]

Okay, well, he breathes wrong. They're not even married, and he breathes wrong. And she's like, ugh, you pissed me off. Figure it out.

[Nick]

I think it's a little performing. I think if when she is, like, when she used. Like, it was last episode, when she's like, well, that was just triggering for me. And she Kept trying to, like, have a fight with Jesse in front of the group about how Jesse that felt. It felt like a scene.

[Sierra]

Yeah, she's. She. I'm sorry. I think that she's somebody that's made for reality television.

[Justin]

Okay, let me revise. I think they're a real couple because we met them at Hulu.

[Damari]

Good.

[Justin]

Real. But I do think there probably was a little bit of, like, when she told her to apologize. I think Michelle gave her the branch and she was like, okay, I'm going to take the branch.

[Sierra]

Like, I'm just gonna say the opposite of what Justin's saying. That I'm like, if the girl wanted to be on Orange County Housewives and had to settle as Jesse Lollies girlfriend on the Valley, then this is the behavior that we're getting and the attitude that we're getting.

[Justin]

It is 32 flavors. Thank you.

[Sierra]

It makes sense. She wanted to be on Bravo. She got on Bravo. Not the way she wanted to.

[Natalie]

Also the way that she. I know this is last episode, but the way that she was like, the things that you texted Jesse about me. You said that I was ugly and that I had too much filler and Botox and this. Then they showed the screenshots of the text. Text literally did not say that. It did say, like, if you're gonna bring women around that are gonna, like, be my child's stepmom. It was definitely not nice, but it wasn't like, she's ugly.

[Justin]

That's why I love her, is because she's saying things that are not true. And then it's like she just backtracks it. Or it's the exact opposite.

[Sierra]

She's like, this is how you made me feel because this is what you didn't say. But I read it, and I know, and it's just like, I don't know. Bravo.

[Justin]

This episode was like. As much as I want to try to, like, empathize and defend Danny and I don't think we know everything, it is really hard to watch, like, the doubling down, the tripling down when Nia's literally trying to give him every moment of like, yep, don't say anything. Don't say anything. We're still on camera. We're still miked, and him just still saying it and being like, why would you say that about me now? Now you're saying things about me.

[Nick]

It's like, no, like, the thing I don't get about this relationship because I. We. I respect that Nia and Danny are haney.

[Justin]

I respect it, too.

[Nick]

Outside of the. The group. So what?

[Natalie]

I don't. No, I liked it more. I. And I feel like I said this last season, the season before, how I do like that when they have issues that like, they try not to really explode on camera, that they try to keep it between the two of them as much as possible. I do appreciate that. What I don't appreciate, and it's kind of the same, I feel like when parents will fight in front of their kids and then they'll have like this huge knockout drag out fight, yelling, whatever, in front of their kids, and then maybe they make up before bed and the next morning they're like, hey, honey. And like, act like everything. I feel like you have to show the makeup, you have to show what brought you back together for your kids obviously to like, see how you work through problems. But it's, it's like you have to, you can't show us this like crazy fight where you're the most disrespectful to your wife, you're not helping at all with your children. And then we just like, what did you say to make up? Did you apologize?

[Nick]

I completely agree with that. Because recently everyone knows now, talking about the fact that Danny was booked for Watch what Happens Live, I think he was supposed to hear what, I don't know, this week or whatever, and he opted out and he, he blamed it on an opportunity that he got in la. And whether that's true or not, I'm just like, like, if I'm Danny, I want to speak on this, right? Like, maybe it's the drinking, I don't know. But like, you can't blame this just on the edit. And I, I want to give Danny the benefit of the doubt that, like, it seems to be some kind of drinking problem. I, you know, and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm reading the situ. Maybe it's deeper than that. Maybe he's just a bad guy. I don't know. Maybe Lala's right and that Nia should leave him. I felt like that's a little too far, but who knows? Knows. But like, you know, we, I think we've all had friends that when they do take some shots, they get fucking weird and nasty. Like they turn into a different person. And if that's all Danny is, it's still wrong. But like, if that is what it is, what are you doing taking shots on camera with this group? If you're Neo, like, if, if you have this relationship where you're helping each other out and you don't want to Expose some of your, like, deeper issues on camera. Why? Why? What is going on with. Yeah, and that makes you change your behavior. That makes you seem like a real fucking asshole to your wife.

[Sierra]

Lala said that too.

[Natalie]

Lala was like, I don't know everything.

[Justin]

But what I'm saying.

[Sierra]

Drinking is the problem. Why? Why, why continue to drink? And it's just like, for me, though, the issue that I have is last episode, not this past episode, but last episode when they were on the safari where obviously his wife is stressed out, exhausted. Their baby, she's hot. The baby's hot. And all she's asking is like, hey, hey, you know, clip in. Just, just, can you help me find something to fan our baby with? And he's just, like, acting so annoyed, so irritated. So, like, ugh, like, why did we bring a babysitter? And it's like, she, she just had a baby. Like, she's not ready to hand off her child for eight hours a day so that she can give you more attention. And when he said that, his gripe was because he needed more attention. I'm just like, who's the child here?

[Natalie]

You've.

[Sierra]

You've had four kids back to back. Let her attend to her kid. And you actually show up and be there so that she has the energy to give that to you.

[Natalie]

But that was bonkers that, that. Because the episode before that one when they're at the roller coasters and she's like, I'm so excited to spend time with you. And he's like, this is feeling very performative. It's like, so which is it? Do you want it?

[Sierra]

She can't win or not.

[Justin]

Well, and to circle back, Natalie, to what you said, like, I feel like Nia and Danny were attempting to try to give us the, like, resolution part of it. But then Danny somehow maneuvered it in a way where now Nia's apologizing for bringing something up on camera when it's like, why is she apologizing?

[Sierra]

Why is she apologizing?

[Justin]

How did we get to this point?

[Sierra]

For stating that you have shitty behavior and that it needs to change.

[Justin]

For acknowledging. Acknowledging it after you were talking to her for like an hour and yelling

[Sierra]

at Lala and yelling at your wife, like, and that's the thing where I'm like, if you can't keep that in the box in the sense to where maybe this isn't. What, like, because I do hate when people kind of go into the whole, like, well, then imagine what's happening behind closed doors. Because, like, let's not make it seem as if somebody is, like, scary, abusive.

[Justin]

Lala was kind of doing that, you

[Sierra]

know what I mean? Where I'm just kind of like, if they have the audacity. A lot of the times when. If people have the audacity to do that in front of people, it's usually like, this is what it is.

[Nick]

Yeah. Lala's clearly projecting her life choices onto Nia and Danny.

[Sierra]

Exactly. Exactly. And I'm just like, I. I think that Danny has a. An issue with drinking and his behavior, and I think he needs to seek some attention for that. But I don't think that Nia would be in love with this man. That's completely abusive.

[Nick]

Yeah, I, again, like, it can be. I completely agree with you. But the thing that is concerning in a way, weird, like, is that the fact that he is avoiding speaking on this tells me he doesn't want to address it, doesn't want to acknowledge it. It wouldn't be that hard to just. Whether it's watching what happens live, comes on a podcast, whatever. I hope we get a chance to speak with. With them to just say, yo, yeah, this is not my best self. And it was hard to watch me, like, it should be really easy for any guy, whether you, like, have some excuses or editing, to just say, that was hard to watch me speak to my partner that way. And that is not who I want to be or who I am. And, like, I did it. I have to own it. But that is not. I think that is an ugly version of me. Even, like, with Kyle last night, we're, you know, on the episode, I think he was crying in the confessional. We've, you know, we've criticized Kyle ad nauseam, but, like, yes, it was humanizing to see, hear him say, like, my actions have really caused me to be in this place I am today. And whether I have my excuses or not, I have made some of these choices, and I have to own that. And that is humanizing. And that is like, you know, but

[Natalie]

it is also really frustrating to. This is season after season, something we've seen with Dani, and I don't know if they just maybe don't watch the episodes back, but, like, how could you have not watched last season and be like, oh, I see the issue.

[Sierra]

Got it.

[Natalie]

All right, cool. Locking in. How are we back here again for another season?

[Nick]

Because he got accused of grabbing another woman inappropriately. And a lot of people, including all of us, were like, we know that's not okay, but this feels like a maybe a one off. And like, it seems like the people talking about are really trying to, to milk it to that. Whatever though it's still a really, really terrible thing to be accused of or to even suggest that you did that. And for any person, it should mortify them that like that. That they're being discussed in that manner. And to that point you would think that would be like all the wake up call you would need to like going forward on camera to just be like, I should probably not fucking take shots.

[Natalie]

What did Nia said say?

[Justin]

She said. I think it just, it was the same thing of saying that he had a

[Nick]

story post.

[Sierra]

I mean, everybody just thinks that he's bailing on it because, yeah, he doesn't want to.

[Justin]

I mean, Nia just confirmed that he had like a gig.

[Sierra]

And I also wonder too, because I'm like, I just remember last season to defending Danny just in the sense that I was like, how can we be so hard on Danny when we have Britney sitting here talking about Jax throwing her in rose bushes? And when you're comparing the two behavior where obviously, obviously you shouldn't be comparing situations, but when you have somebody that is so outwardly disruptive in his behavior, in how he talks to his wife, whatever, then it's like you're not really looking at Danny as like the biggest problem now having Jax being removed from this season, I do think that it definitely like, spotlights Danny in a different way because I'm like, Jesse and Michelle are no longer fighting so ugly with each other like they were the last season. That made it almost unbearable to win. Britney might as well be a guest or like a friend of on the show because Jax is no longer on it. So it's like the main focus right now is this like perfect marriage that we've seen for the first two seasons. And then it's like kind of almost feels like it's like their time to be spotlit. Does that make sense?

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, but it does. It doesn't feel like it's manufactured. It feels very like.

[Sierra]

Like the curtain's been lifted or something. You know what I mean? Like where Jax has stepped away and then it's like, oh, wait, Danny and Nia don't have that. This like, perfect marriage.

[Justin]

To me, you see that with like the drag. Not the drag, I guess, like the pageant scene. But it was like the cameras are always looking now at like Nia, Danny and Lala. Like, that's what they were focused on. But you're catching so much like, why would they be looking at all the other men? When they're just, like, in a fun situation.

[Sierra]

I don't know, because I'm like, I. Now I see where, like, Britney kind of feel like she got reprimanded or whatever last season because she brought up Dani's drinking, and then everybody yelled at her at the table and said she was jealous.

[Justin]

In this episode, they said that.

[Sierra]

They talked about it.

[Justin]

Zach brought up it up, which is interesting.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Saying that Britney's never liked Nia.

[Sierra]

I was like, I don't know.

[Justin]

Has she never liked me, or has she been trying to look out for Nia?

[Sierra]

And it kind of feels like the other cast members, too, are kind of trying to show that last season that it's like, they aren't perfect. But I don't know. Like, I don't know why Danny would then lean into it. Like, if you are around people that you don't feel safe with, if you're around people that you think inflate your behavior, then why would you go get Blackout and then start saying things at the table towards Jan?

[Nick]

Yeah, I. I just wish that this. I think the Valley, comparing it to, like, in the City. Like, I. Maybe it's just me because, like, I relate. And, like, when Kyle's talking about, you know, like, his business struggling, like, that's really relatable stuff. I want to hear more about. Like, it seems like the Valley is always just going from relationship to relationship to try to expose each relationship, like, to be something that it's. And I just, like, I find that to not be that. Like, transitioning to Summer house. There was that moment when Kyle and Amanda were talking about. I don't know. I forget which one conversation, but I think it was the one outside the house. And they're like, we've had some of our best and some of our worst memories of our lives, and that is real shit, man. Like, a marriage or any relationship that lasts a decade. Like, I think it was Lindsay Hubbard not too long ago, like, when this Amanda. When this Amanda came out, and she's like, if you like, our personal lives are. There's way more drama than we share. And that's so true because, like, even reality TV stars have their limit to, like, the every little detail they're gonna share about their lives. And the truth is, is every relationship and all of our lives are messy. There's no such thing as a perfect relationship. Even the best ones have to fight to keep the relationship going and have to put in the work. And I'm not saying this because what is the. What's really But I can only imagine the shit that Kyle and Amanda have had to deal with together to survive a relationship on camera, public scrutiny, and that's the real shit. And it's just like, I'm hoping that in the City shows me that. Was that in the season preview. And he calls his best friend. He gets introduced to his best friend, the bar owner, and he says, you're the Bertie Bernie Madoff of the. Of hospitality. Like, that is, first of all, like, a crazy thing to say about your alleged best friend. Bernie Madoff is a con artist and he destroyed many people's lives through, like, stealing all their money. So I don't know where that comes from. Maybe that's. But like, I, I'm interested in that aspect of, like, the, of these relationships and how work and relationships, like, really affect these people's lives. Lives in a way that the Valley seems to have a hard time tapping into.

[Sierra]

To your point, I think it's a lot of people who have their main focus is like, their relationships. And like, obviously it's like influencer work, which, like, good, great and whatever. But I'm like, they don't really have things going on that they can share about. I just even remember a season with Jax where he was like. Did an event for like, bald, premature balding or something. But it was like, at least Jax remembered that, like, hey, I should be pushing a product.

[Justin]

That's a good point.

[Sierra]

You know what I mean?

[Justin]

It feels like they're in limbo, which to me, somehow House kind of also felt like it was in limbo because it was just like the same situationships and like boys and.

[Sierra]

But like, you had people like starting companies or like wanting to do a bathing suit line or like dealing with intense debt and, and, or. Or going bankrupt. And it's just like, these are real life issues that like people in our bracket, in our age group, it's like if you're not dealing with it now, you may deal with it in the future. You're gonna have a friend that deals with this. Versus like a, do you like me or do you not like me? You like her. And it's like too grown to watch this kind of scenario go back and forth.

[Justin]

That's why in the city I think

[Sierra]

is so good, 100%. I want to watch people with real jobs with real opinions that have real insults. God bless the fight between Carl and Kyle. But like you six foot five motherfucker, if that's the worst thing you can come up with, versus you're the Bernie

[Natalie]

made off of hospitality Also, I forget her name.

[Nick]

Sorry. I'm getting into all this cast, but Lindsay's friend, the truth dermatologist, who has like, Georgina. Georgina. I'm so locked into her. Like, she has more than one kid and her husband left her. We don't know why. She is a business owner. She is, like, surviving in New York with kids who like, oh, my God, like, poor. I'm locked into this person.

[Sierra]

Oh, my God. When she opens up and she's like,

[Nick]

I lost my shit.

[Sierra]

You know, for her change of clothes.

[Justin]

No, I like, I low key want to be a dermatologist in my next life. But I saw that, I was like, now I know what to get.

[Sierra]

She was like, casual black tie. Chanel.

[Natalie]

Yeah. Like, just in your cabinet in your Durham. Okay.

[Sierra]

You just never know when you're going to get the call in New York.

[Natalie]

I usually. When I go to those places, I usually take a couple of, like, cotton swabs. And so now I know there's a Chanel in the back.

[Justin]

Dare I say that in the city is just Housewives repackaged. I think that's why I enjoyed it.

[Natalie]

But it feels better than. Than Housewives. Like, Housewives felt. I don't. It just felt so sceney and it felt so, like just these weren't. I don't know, it just didn't feel as genuine to me. And this like, Lindsay going after Kenny and being like, listen, I'm just meeting this guy. Like, I'm just asking you very surface level questions. And if you're getting defensive, that's a you problem. Like, that's so real. Of just like meeting someone for the first time and being like. He's like, this is giving. I hate men. She's like, I'm just annoyed by men or something.

[Justin]

Good point. Because Andrea and Danielle being a part of this cast, to me, shows like, these were the friends that were on Summer House that stayed friends and became friends. And now we're seeing, like, their real friendships.

[Nick]

And then what this Danielle, like, relationship. Who is this guy who as soon as they started talking about it, she's like, I've known him for nine years. Then we, like, both went our separate ways, got into relationships. This is like her version of the story. And he's like, yeah. And then we rekindle. And that sounds like very sweet and very innocent.

[Justin]

Very like, rom com Amish dating for six months.

[Nick]

There is like, listen, like, if you go on reality tv, your life changes, obviously. And like, a lot of, you know, and people treat you a little bit differently and like, A lot of the people you know, if they're not like, your tight group of friends, like, your acquaintances and like, your. Your circle, like, they get kind of weird around you, and if they've ever had a desire to do what you. You did, which is to, like, go on reality TV or get some kind of public profile, they can get weird and hard to trust you. So, like, my spider senses went up when he was like, oh, you knew she. He knew you before. You were, like, famous. And now, now you're on a TV show, and all of a sudden you're back together, and here he is on

[Natalie]

a TV show, and then here Amanda is being like, yeah, and he's married and he's married.

[Justin]

Isn't that better, though, that if he

[Sierra]

knew her before Amanda?

[Nick]

I don't know. Listen, I. Maybe. Maybe it means nothing, but it just makes me wonder if his in. If he's there for the right reasons, so to speak, where it's just like, what was the draw for him to reach back out?

[Sierra]

Well, he got her pregnant, so I

[Justin]

thought he looked sweet. I was like, okay, this is like, one of the people you knew in your past. Like, and, like, he came back because it actually was a relationship that, like, makes sense, maybe.

[Natalie]

Did you see the tweet that was Kenny being like, she's such a dollar like, you know, talking about Whitney. She's such a doll and such a little angel. And then Whitney being like, I love him so much. I moved here from the middle of nowhere to New York City, and it shows a picture of Jax, Taylor, and Britney.

[Justin]

Oh, I didn't clock that it was

[Natalie]

just some tweet that went viral, but, like, so funny, because I hope not.

[Sierra]

It's like, Whitney has been a successful influencer for a very long time and lived out here. So, like, that's where I'm like, no, you're not.

[Justin]

She moved from city to city.

[Sierra]

The way that she makes it sound, though, is as if, like, he, like, plucked her out of the machine.

[Justin]

No, no, no, I did hear that. And I was like, wait, where is she from? Because I was like, to me, I got the vibe that she was LA, but it sounded. You're right.

[Sierra]

Yeah, she's 100%. But whatever.

[Nick]

Dewey, honest question. This is not meant even to be snarky or mean, but watching Summer House and watching the whole Cira in West Dynamic and again the kiss, and then, like, Jess and then west trying to pull her into the bed, and Jesse being like, yo, dude, if you. Jesse Solomon, of all people, giving solid based relationship Advice, which is like, yo, dude, you have to be 110%. Not even 100. You got to throw in an extra 10. He's like, I know. And, like, is West Wilson emotionally stunted and stupid? And I'm not saying that to be cruel or mean. Or is he that Machiavellian where he just, like, he knows what he's doing but doesn't give a fuck? Because at this point. Point it is so. And Kyle referenced this on Watch what Happens live. It's just like, the way he talks about, like, you know, I didn't want to hurt her when we. You know, when we try to date casually. And, like, as Kyle pointed out, on Watch what Happens Life. What about Sierra makes you think that she is interested in anything casual with you? Like, what are you again? Are you. Are you that dense? Or do you just not give a fuck?

[Natalie]

I don't think he gives a fuck.

[Sierra]

Yeah. I was like, he does not give a fuck. He's not stupid. And, like, I'm sorry. I know friend of show, love him dearly. But, like, it reminds me of every time Tom Schwartz would get caught for cheating or something, and he'd just be like, I am. I just, like, you know, like, it was just like a bad moment. Like, you. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't think about it. And it's like, but how many times can you do the same thing over and over again and just not think about it? Or maybe you should stop drinking or, like, do something different where I'm like, west takes zero accountability for anything he does. And then the second he gets confronted, he can talk shit behind his podcast man mic or on his little TikTok. But then it's the second that he's confronted face to face with somebody just being like, let's have a conversation. He's just like, I just.

[Damari]

I do.

[Justin]

It's the amount of times he said, like, that I'm like, okay, you're playing a character.

[Sierra]

Yeah. Like, you want to play this? Like, oh, I'm a little boy that doesn't know what decisions I'm making, so you can't really be mad at me. But I'm like, you make big, destructive decisions. You're going to have to deal with big, destructive fallout.

[Nick]

He's literally telling Ben to, like, tell his girlfriend to chill out on playing Cupid. And then, like, 10 minutes later, he's making else here.

[Natalie]

That's why I think he's doing it on purpose. That was a very. That conversation with Ben. It didn't look like he was hammered. It looked like it was probably at the beginning of the party like he, it looked like a very sober, self aware, honest conversation. And then to then have him say all of that and then make out with Sierra and then canoodle with her and then try to pull her into his bed. It's just you, you know, you know what you're doing and for Kyle, watch what happens live. Being like west did that I think he, it was asked like about the. Do you think it was physical back then or just emotional? And he was like I think it was just emotional but I think west did certain things that like he knew would like pull Amanda in. Essentially.

[Nick]

I said this when the, when the Scamanda first started I wanted to know who seduced who because I really do think that matters. Like when you have, have like who started the relationship, who started reaching out, who started texting, who started showing more of an interest. I really, really think that matters. And it doesn't again excuse Amanda but when we're going back and watching these scenes and we're seeing these intense moments, these beautiful moments between Ciara and Amanda, this like strong woman friendship, I don't think that she was like lying through her teeth. I mean who knows but, but like and I just feel like Amanda. And again it's not an excuse, it's just like just to understand because like we, we all have made really bad decisions that we look back and go what the fuck was I thinking? You know, we have to go get therapy and then our therapist has to, and it has to been like well you have some childhood trauma, you know, I mean you were, you know, whatever it is that you have to unpack. But yeah, it's just more like it just like I feel like west is, he had again we've talked about, he's had a roster of people and Amanda, I think that scene between Ciara Mia and Amanda of her being truly afraid knowing that she's done with Kyle, the relationship's over. And probably the thing that kept Amanda hanging out and trying so much wasn't her love for Kyle, the relationship but a true fear of finding something after this relationship cause she's been in it for so long. And then here's this west guy coming in and, and, and being nice to her and flirting with her and I, and I think she just fell for it.

[Justin]

I have a follow up question with this is, is a fuckboy kissing you on the forehead more intimate than a fuckboy kissing you on the lips? Because that's what he would always do to Amanda is like hug her close and then kiss her on the forehead. But then be so much be recklessly consistent with kissing Sierra on the lips. But like that's where I'm like it almost was more intimate what he was doing with Amanda.

[Natalie]

No, I saw Carl. I think it was Carl. And watch what happens live being like the way that Wes touch. Touches Amanda or anyone that is. He was like she is married. And the way that his hands go like around her waist or on certain part. Like that just should never happen at all.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Her head, her hair. That should just never happen between a friend.

[Nick]

These kind of guys who like play this whole like I'm friends with everyone. It's very disarming. It's very much. It's like I'm a you know, they. Yeah. And they're very touchy feely and they like do like cheek kisses with like the girls and they hug and it's just like. And half of these women are like have boyfriends.

[Natalie]

We're in la. This isn't Paris. Like why are you kissing me on the cheek?

[Nick]

There's a lot of guys like that.

[Natalie]

You're from Michigan West.

[Nick]

He's kind of like does the thing where he's just like, you know, he's just the lover boy. And again at the end of the when everyone's saying I love you but it started with west and Sierra and it's like he shouldn't. I'm not saying he shouldn't. Like when everyone's saying I love you, it's not like he shouldn't say it back and like, like make a. A good moment awkward by being like, well, I'm just saying it as a friend. But that's how he. He instead of being cautious about how his actions and words come across as Sierra, he uses that as an opportunity almost to say things that like she is just going to find confusing or misleading.

[Natalie]

Ciara, do they do this? I mean is this every season finale where everyone's crying and being like acting like everyone's dead and where they're not gonna see each other again?

[Justin]

Like no, it was giving Vanderpump finale

[Sierra]

I saw because I thought the same thing too. I was like why is everybody crying so hard at this? But I think it's because they obviously knew that in the city was happening and so I don't think they knew like whether or not everyone's coming back next season. So like this could be some people's last seasons. So I think that kind of had something to play in it. But I was like, yeah, no, they usually are. Like, you guys live in the same. It was sitting on the same island.

[Justin]

It was a sitting around the table before they walked out to me.

[Sierra]

You know, y' all are gonna run into each other at the coffee shop. Why are we crying?

[Nick]

The opening scene of in the City where it's Amanda and Kyle.

[Sierra]

Uh huh.

[Nick]

And they're talking about the, the west thing. And she's like, I mean you cheated on me. I, I would never cheat on you. And like how could you, how would you even suggest that? He's like, no, I didn't. He's like, there's a video. And he's like okay, no, no, okay, no, no.

[Justin]

What he said specifically he says, says who? Here's the video. Says who? That was funnier. Him saying Suzu.

[Nick]

Oh that's amazing.

[Justin]

I think, I think Kyle's learned that, you know, sometimes it's not worth pushing back. You're just like. That was true.

[Damari]

You're right.

[Sierra]

No notes. All right.

[Nick]

I also thought it was really interesting that scene, you know, post Summer House predating the Amanda dating West. And you have that walking on the street again, another great moment where you're walking the streets in New York having a scene. Love that. Very authentic. Not so sitting down. And they're getting out of therapy and they're like you're catching up with them outside of therapy. And she's like, you came home at four in the morning again, you know, like you did, you know, and it just, I would, I really appreciate about these moments because again regardless of what you think of Amanda and her choices and I just, to me it really makes me, it humanizes them in a way that just again doesn't justify the actions but explains like, I think it humanizes Amanda in a way that doesn't make her like some evil monster who, who, whose only goal was to get close to Ciara only to fuck her over, you know, and I don't like, I think this is more about Amanda truly struggling with herself in her relationship with Kyle and her like identity outside of this relationship. And I just felt that was a really interesting moment.

[Justin]

She did both for sure.

[Sierra]

I think two things can be true at the same time. Like I think that like she, she, I don't, I don't know, just the, the emotional connection between her and west. Like you, it's just hard for me for them to be like, oh, that wasn't an emotional affair where I'm like very much so you would rather talk to us than talk to your husband. While going through things, you're saying that you want to work things out, and we're only upset about one thing, but yet, you know, you're upset about the partying. But you chose to marry him. You said. Even when they talked about, like, oh, I focus more on the beginning of our relationship, and Kyle's more focused on the now, where I was like, well, that makes sense for Kyle to be focused on the now because you found out about the cheating or the accusations or whatever and then still accepted a proposal, still went through a marriage, still came back every summer complaining about this husband. That's such a problem for you. But you did nothing to fix it or change it, and now you're so checked out, and it's just like, I don't know. So that's where I'm like, are we really working on it? Are we just harping on, like, the one thing versus, like, talking about all the other things that aren't being addressed on camera?

[Justin]

Did you guys like the fact that she decided to separate with him at the anniversary, or did that seem, like unnecessarily bad timing?

[Sierra]

I just felt like it was kind

[Nick]

of mean bad timing. Also. I didn't. I mean, it's kind of a nitpicky. But, like, when Kyle was like, all right, well, if I agree to this, and she's like, you don't have to agree with it. Well, yeah, you do, Amanda. Yes, you can move out. Kyle's not keeping you prisoner. But you're not just moving out. You're saying, I'm gonna move out, but I want us to still be together. I want us to still work on a relationship.

[Damari]

You.

[Nick]

You know, like, you're. We're. We're still going to do this, and that's. Kyle does have to agree to that. And, like, give him a fucking chance to, like, process what you are trying to ask him to be okay with. He's not okay. Yeah, you want to move out. He is processing whether this is. You're saying it's not the end, but he has a choice to say, well, if you're going to move out, we're done.

[Sierra]

Yeah, see that? And this is what I had an issue with, with that final conversation with Summer House, and then this conversation as well was that I am like, you know that you want distance. When she was like, oh, when Sierra brought that up, and it was surprising to me, too, I was like, no, the fudge. It wasn't. You were literally a part of that conversation. And then acting as if Sierra was, like, going out of bounds by saying these things when you're having these conversations, constantly saying how unhappy you are, crying on the floor, the whole nine. So it's like you're not telling what Kyle. The half of how you actually feel in this marriage, in this relationship, but you'll tell everybody else. And then when there's finally some sort of. Sort of solution, which would be moving out or separating or whatever, it's like, well, this isn't the end of us. This is just how we're going to work on. And it's like, in what world does any relationship have, like, a married couple move apart from each other? It's like, that is such a rare occasion to where I'm like, it just sounds like you want to break up, but you don't want to lose him entirely. So we're going to keep you on a little leash where it's like you full access to me. I have full access to you. We're not broken up, but, like, we're not not, like, together. And I don't need to consult you with, like, my where. Where I'm going and what I'm doing every day. But yet, like, if I want to see you or I need to feel loved or I need to feel something, I can call you.

[Justin]

Can I say for a second, despite the west and Amanda of it all, we can't knock her necessarily for wanting to baby step out of the marriage. Right? Like, divorce doesn't just happen. Like, and you move out. So, like, I think she was afraid to, like, vocalize exactly what she said. And unfortunately, that comes at the detriment of Kyle.

[Sierra]

Well, that's what I'm saying, though, is that I'm like, instead of having an actual conversation about your feeling or how he makes you feel or what this relationship is doing to you, instead it was like, okay, because when we're having this conversation with Sierra and Mia, it's, I'm done with the relationship. When we're having this conversation with Kyle, it's. It's not a breakup. It's not. It's not. We're just taking time. We're taking space. And it's like, no, you're literally just breadcrumbing a breakup but being like, it's fine, but we're still together, so you don't have to feel weird about it.

[Justin]

But maybe she still did think that there was something. Or maybe she was afraid to acknowledge to herself that that was okay, which just makes it messed up.

[Nick]

I'm with Justin. Like, I don't think there's A perfect roadmap of how to get divorced. And I think you always even want to try to do it differently, you know, But I think it's just more

[Sierra]

like I just feel like honesty. Like, you can't sit here where I'm like. And think of how hurt Kyle's going to be watching back this season and seeing how you actually feel, how you actually talk about him versus what you're saying to him to keep him on the line, to keep him defending you in public.

[Justin]

Let him talk. Like, he wasn't able to talk. He just kept coming out.

[Sierra]

And then she says, he can't express himself.

[Justin]

That's the thing. I was like. I also see that where I'm like, okay, let him at least say his perspective.

[Natalie]

Didn't. Before this anniversary dinner where she was like, I'm gonna move out. Didn't we have a flashback scene to where he was like, I think you should move out?

[Justin]

Well, no, that was the therapy. After the therapy session, she said, yeah, he told me to move out. But then the flashback didn't necessarily show that.

[Natalie]

We saw a flashback of him being like, I can't be in the same house with you and this with you. Like, you need to move out.

[Sierra]

The separation.

[Justin]

Yeah, So I guess he did say. Yeah, he did say that.

[Natalie]

So then. And then we have her at the anniversary dinner being like, yeah, so I'm gonna move out. It's like, so I don't feel like this was this, like, drop of information over mozzarella caviar sticks.

[Nick]

I do think Amanda's unwillingness to just let Kyle process what he said and make it, like, her decision to. I think Sierra's point was she was kind of pretending this was, like, an idea to fix the relationship, but in reality, deep down, it was like, step one of four to leave the relationship. And maybe she didn't want to admit that to Kyle or herself. I will say, like, I keep hit feeling I have to like, oh, we're not defending Kyle's actions. But, like, I mean, when he was talking about how at one point and he took people's money, you know, he asked friends and family to invest in his business.

[Damari]

Business.

[Nick]

And. And that is meaningful On. On. On so many levels. And to know that at one point you could have sold that company for 25x their investment, and now you're struggling to survive that, like, yeah, yeah, that is, like, that'll destroy a guy or person. Like, that's the. That feels like the weight of the world when you have, like, people you're responsible for in salaries. And some of these people are people you care about and people trusted you with their money. And I mean, whenever I'm feeling stressed out about work, I am so grateful I have Natalie to like, just, you know, feel like I have a partner and I feel like I have someone to like, listen to me and give me ideas. And if Amanda wasn't that for Kyle, I, you know, like, it doesn't justify how he spoke to her. But I get where that anger and resentment and that abandonment feels like. Because if he was just like, all of a sudden he's on the top of a mountain and then it just got come crashing down. I know we've all mocked the DJing, but if he is A, making money from it in a space where he's. That's, that's his. He hasn't found success in other places

[Justin]

he doesn't have a salary and, and

[Nick]

B, you know, it's also feeling like he's probably felt like a failure the past couple years, both professionally and in his relationship. And when he does trust, try with his wife, he just gets fucking shot down. And just like. And then anywhere, it's just like a chicken for the egg. Again, like, it doesn't justify these actions. But at some, you know, these aren't. These things don't just happen in a vacuum, you know, there's no real, like, starting point, you know, And I just don't think you can blame the whole relationship on, On Kyle and how he spoke to Amanda. I don't. Again, it doesn't justify it. But like, you can poke a bear so many times before, like, they just like fucking lose their shit. And I, and it. See, clearly Kyle feels like alone.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I believe him. That he feels piled on. And I don't think he's delusional for feeling that way.

[Sierra]

No. Even when he said his whole thing where he was like, I looked over the table and you looked. You had a smug look on your face and that just like it felt like you were eating it up, that everybody was. And I'm just like, even with my partner, I'm like, I'm sorry. There's just no world in which I'm sitting around a table. I don't care if it's my best of best friends, if you're coming at my partner, I am going to interject because it's none of your business.

[Justin]

It's also different if you're throwing them to the wall.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Like trying to defend it.

[Sierra]

You know what I mean? Or just being like, enough guys, enough like he gets it. You know what I mean? Where I'm just like, Even Lindsay started the whole thing off, popping off with like, oh, but he got a DJ career. And it's just like, was that necessary? Like, and it just feels like for him, like, that. That no one's gonna jump in and be like, okay, Lindsay, like, you know, like, enough. And especially to look to his wife, and his wife is just like, yeah.

[Justin]

Did you guys see the teaser for the season of in the City? And it. It's Amanda going, if you come for me, I'll come for you.

[Sierra]

No, that's. Yeah. I was like, I wish that. I was like, I wish that was real, but I doubt it.

[Nick]

I wanted.

[Justin]

But it was probably clever editing, but

[Sierra]

it was like a silly conversation that they were having. And they were like, yes.

[Nick]

Yeah, I. I hope. I really, like. I hope it doesn't go that way. And I. I mean, I think they're cordial, like, giving some. Some good, punchy one liners.

[Sierra]

I was kind of like, I don't know. How do you guys feel about Kyle charging Amanda back rent?

[Natalie]

That was nuts.

[Nick]

Crazy. You're married. I don't understand.

[Justin]

Wait, what was the back rent for again? Explain.

[Sierra]

He said that if they're like, if he's staying in that place and she's not living, or she was living, she

[Natalie]

hadn't paid rent for the last three years. And he was like, So I.

[Nick]

That's like me saying mortgage ever. I don't like. But like, we.

[Natalie]

119,000. Which honestly, I will eat up Amanda being like, I already paid it.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Yeah. Literally, like, yes, she had a great year.

[Nick]

But I am curious where that they. Do they have their. I mean, some married couples.

[Justin]

Couples split.

[Nick]

Have completely split finances. They don't combine their finances. And if that. That's. It sounds like that's what. The only way that would make sense is if they've completely split their finances.

[Sierra]

But, I mean, I do that. But even then, I'm like, I. I feel like that would be a conversation. You don't get to make a spreadsheet. We're separating and be like, well, since this didn't work out, like, this is what you've wrapped.

[Justin]

This is what happens, though, with, like, when you divorce or separate.

[Nick]

No, it was. Would make sense if they split their finances and they. Amanda has her joint bank account and Kyle has his, and they have their businesses. And when they. And Bravo pays them and they do their social. Whatever they get, it just goes in their shepherd accounts. And then there's no, like, Mutual account where maybe some of the joint, you know, like. And then they agree to, you know, at some point early in their marriage, they just agreed to split expenses. And then, like, life happened, and Kyle is just, like, in the. You know, in the middle of his marriage, just, like, rents due. So, like, I'm just going to pay the rent, you know, because we're married. Not thinking much about it, and then the relationship goes south, and then they get divorced, and he's like, but I technically paid all the rent, you know, and you didn't. And. And we were technically supposed to split it then. That would. That would make sense.

[Justin]

And do we remember, like, Sutton on Beverly Hills had a forensic, like, investigator or accountant that, like, looked into everything, and, like, they're going to do it if Kyle's not doing it. The forensic.

[Sierra]

I hear what you're saying, but all I'm saying is that it's crazy work. It does look like splitting finances, that you covered the rent one month, and we're like, okay, get me when you. When you can. And then you do it again. And then you do it again for three years. Then I would just assume you're paying the rent. Like, I don't think you should. Like, three years later, you're like, you know what? Remember that one time you forgot to pay rent? And then I just kept doing it for three years, but we never talked about it again. You owe me.

[Justin]

Or, like, moving forward. Like, we're getting. You going to split. Like, I know I was covering it.

[Natalie]

It's kind of giving. Like, remember that gift I gave you for Christmas a few years ago? I'm gonna need that back because we're broken up now. And also, she.

[Sierra]

He was her boss.

[Justin]

Yeah, true.

[Sierra]

So I'm also kind of like, what do you mean? You're paying her mortgage or her rent? She's doing your creative directing and design.

[Justin]

I think it says where, like, Kyle is, like, with his finances, you know? Like, I think it just reveals a little more of, like, he is in a position where he needs.

[Sierra]

And I think he did say that on, like, Watch what Happens Live, that he was kind of like, he. I think Lindsay said that she made more money than he did that year, so.

[Justin]

Which, by the way, in divorce, you go into survival. That's what happens.

[Sierra]

I just still think that that's crazy work.

[Natalie]

I will say I thought it was nuts, the conversation that Kyle had with Kenny at the restaurant. The first time we meet Kenny.

[Sierra]

Okay.

[Natalie]

He's like, talking about Amanda, and he's saying, you know how, like, she Used to be this way, and now she's this way, and she doesn't ever come around and blah, blah, blah. And Kyle's like, yeah, they're talking just about, like, how much she's changed or whatever. And I feel like if you aren't. And Kyle's, like, agreeing with him, and, you know, I feel like if you're not willing to grow, like, with your partner, like, clearly she doesn't. She. She. She's in her 30s. Like, she doesn't want to go out. She doesn't want to do this. She doesn't want to do that anymore. More like that's part of just maybe, I don't know, growing up or whatever. But the fact that it's like, he sees that as a flaw and not of, like, that's. I feel like that's when people fall out of love, is when they stop growing with their partner. They stop, like, they just expect to be the exact same person they were when they met.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And not, like, both, like, individuals stubbornly don't try to find whatever that balance is. I do think it is interesting that Amanda and within a relationship with Kyle, like, was always, like, the homebody who never wanted to do anything. And post divorce, Amanda can't help. She needs to wear wigs because she needs to go out so bad only to get popped by, you know, at the game. It's just like, girl like you.

[Justin]

Well, what is she gonna do? Stay home?

[Natalie]

I was gonna say she did with Kyle. Well, I think her mental health might be a little struggling right now, and maybe she needs, like, her friends and to go out and get out of the house and to, like, have her friends force feed her or whatever.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And staying in your house, like, reclusing from everyone being a hermit crab only makes your mental health worse. So I understand her wanting to get out of the house.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

But even to, like, Kyle's point when he was kind of, like, it makes me sad to know that, like, someone else is going to enjoy the Amanda that I fell with. And I'm like, yeah, like. And that's so solid. That's why, like, a lot of people where it's like, you got to stick it out, because it's just like, imagine that you did all of this work to give it to somebody else as, like, this improved thing. But I'm just like. I also think that Amanda kind of. Kind of, if you remember early seasons of summer house, Amanda did the same thing that she's doing with west now, is that I'm a fun girl. I Love going out. I party all the time, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you get comfortable, you're with somebody for a while. You don't need to do all that stuff anymore. And I think that's who Amanda actually is. But, like, right now, she's doing the. Well, I'm young and I'm dating West, and, like, I got to keep up. And west hangs out with all these girls, so I got to be there, because if I'm not there, somebody else will be there. And, like, thinking that the fact that, like, she was going over to his house to pregame before he was going out on dates, like, he. She knows that he. If he's. If she's not going out, he's not staying home with her.

[Justin]

I thought about this last night of, like, do you guys remember before we knew that Amanda and Wes were anything, they just were posting, like, videos together, like, on the street or, like, at bars. Like, none of us clocked that any of that was anything. We were just like, oh, they're just friends hanging out. Even though they never were, like, friends like that hanging out to go drink and stuff.

[Sierra]

Oh, my God. I, like, click on some of the girls that, like, Wes, click like, like, comments on and whatnot and being like, how close are they? And then it's like, there's so many girls that are just like. I just feel like west is in their orbit in a way that, like, is just like a rotating door.

[Natalie]

Okay, we have to talk about the reunion trailer.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Sierra]

Yes.

[Nick]

West not walking out. It's crazy.

[Justin]

No. Lindsay going, are you going to get up? Are you going to go get your girl? Be a man. Get your girl.

[Sierra]

Them sharing a dressing room and him walking in and kissing her. I was just like, oh, this feels so weird. And then, yeah, having everybody be like, go get your girl. Go get your girl. And Kyle would, like, be being like, this is so weird. And I'm like, yeah, because it's still

[Nick]

your girl's line of, like, he's only dating you despite me, which is a sick burn. And I think it had the desired effect, which was to hurt Amanda. That being said, I think it was like, I. I mean, obviously not true. And I think that's the thing that, like, that's the hardest thing to get over a heartbreak is the realization that, like, Sierra has invested so much of her energy and. And. And love and. And consideration into this possibility with west, only to realize he doesn't give a fuck about her. And he, you know, and that is to. To care about something so much the Indifference of the other person is the thing that hurts the most. That's why our friends are always, like kind of lying to us when we're like. Then they're trying to make us feel better is to try to come up with some other excuse. Then they just don't give a fuck. And I think that's just really the hardest thing to try to, you know, because we. It should be the signal of, like, why we should move on because they're, you know, instead of feeling not good enough, it should be the thing that makes us go, this person doesn't appreciate what I'm willing to bring. And, you know, it's. But like, her saying that is like, to me explains why she's had such a hard time of getting over this relationship with west. Because, like, you know, we want. It's hard to. It's hard to. It's hard to realize the thing we cared about and invested so much of our energy. That other person. Because clearly Wes doesn't give a fuck. You can't say that Wes cares about anything about what Sierra feels, even though he pretends to, or he's just stupid because, like, Sierra is so clear about what she wants from Wes and he still keeps pretending to be confused about what she wants. And I think it's because he just doesn't give a fuck. He doesn't care.

[Justin]

You know? What I was also thinking about is like, how do they show up to. I guess we kind of saw because we saw them enter together into the dressing room room. But it's like, how can Wes and Amanda even show up in this reunion? Because they either show up and double down as we're full on couple, or they just like, say, we're not a couple then. But then it's like, why did you do all this? You know what I mean? So it is. In my. In my opinion, it is kind of in spite of Sierra, regardless. Like, you can't.

[Nick]

What do you mean?

[Sierra]

Like, nobody thinks that these two people are going to end up getting. Getting married. Like, nobody thinks.

[Justin]

Or maybe they have to. Like, they have to. At this point in my head, I

[Natalie]

don't think West's intentions of getting Amanda to fall for him, getting her in his bet, whatever that. However it started, I don't think his intention behind that was like, I want to piss off Sierra and I want to ruin her. I want to ruin a friendship. I want to. Like, I don't think that was in the back of his head. I think he was literally not like, no, no.

[Sierra]

They. They hit it like that's what I'm saying. Because you knew it was going to hurt people and you did it anyways. So I'm like, no, there's. There is an intention there. Because it's like, I could choose to not fuck with my ex's best friend or my friend's wife, but instead you both chose to do it knowing that it's wrong and then hit it for months on end.

[Nick]

But there's a difference between knowing you're going to piss someone off and doing it anyways. Like, west, like, he doesn't care that Sierra's upset. He just. He just. He just cares to the extent that he's in the doghouse.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

He doesn't actually care that she hurt. If he. If he gave a. That she's hurt, he would move so differently this. Throughout this entire season. He doesn't care.

[Justin]

It would have never.

[Nick]

Only cares about how it impacts him.

[Sierra]

I don't know, because for me, I'm just like, at the end of the day, there's two people that they both had to have thought about in that situation and still moved forward with it. And I'm sorry, but I'm just like, again, too many people in this world. I understand. Oh, she doesn't know if anyone will ever be nice to her again after Kyle. Whatever. I'm just like, it's loser behavior at the end of the day to sit there and be like, oh, I might. My actions don't actually affect anybody until I get found out or caught about it.

[Justin]

Like, sorry, I was gonna say, I think, like, I don't think they did. They started dating to hurt Sierra. I think they started dating and they didn't stop it in spite of. Because they knew it was gonna hurt Sierra. So I think, like, I agree, Justin. If they. If they cared about Sierra and, like, didn't want to date, like, they just would have never done it.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Justin]

It would have never been a. Questions asked, engaging.

[Nick]

I don't think they cared. I don't think they cared.

[Justin]

I think hiding it, though, was.

[Nick]

Hiding it.

[Natalie]

No, because hiding came after the fact.

[Sierra]

Right.

[Nick]

Because they knew they would get in trouble. They knew that this would happen. They knew, like, as Kyle would say, I don't know how they're going to survive this. This was about them getting through it, you know, because if Cierra magically was like, you know what? Honestly, I'm over it. I don't care. God bless you guys. I don't think they've been like, oh, well, if you. If you don't care, then we're just not going to date anymore.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like, if. If you're not pissed.

[Natalie]

I also don't think it was like, oh, we're too, like, two drunks in West's apartment, whatever. And they're like, you know what we should do? Like, to piss off Sierra, like, we should make out.

[Justin]

No, I don't think it was that.

[Natalie]

I think it was the morning after. They're like, oh, fuck. We have people who, if they find out about this, like, we're fucked. And I think it came after the fact. I don't think they did it to Spice or hurt Sierra or hurt Kyle.

[Justin]

But also, aren't there friends that are just completely off limits? Like, when you care enough about someone, you're like, I don't even question, like.

[Sierra]

And I know that they're gonna talk about it in the reunion in the sense of, like, her turning off her location and doing all that, but I'm just like, again, it's the. You can't help who you fall for.

[Natalie]

Sure.

[Sierra]

But you can help who you spend your time with. You don't need to be reaching out to West. You don't need to be spending all your time with him. Oh, my God, I have a crush. If anything, that. That should be more of a reason for you to want to distance yourself if you didn't want to get into anything messy, not answer the text messages. Exciting. It's fun. It's fun to sneak around. It's fun to do things behind people's backs and have your own little romantic thing that nobody's going to understand. And then guess what? It comes out because you hit it, because it's not genuine.

[Justin]

It also was like, I mean, I'm curious what the timeline's going to come out to during the reunion, but, like, us finding out that it was longer than what people are saying. And even, like, Jesse being, like, I was told it wasn't this.

[Sierra]

Kyle said from episode one, you've spent more time with my wife than I have in the last six months. Six months. So that means since January 2025 year.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

So it's so. I mean, you do the math. You're choosing to spend more time with your friend's ex than you are with your friends and with your own husband.

[Nick]

Guys, see that clip that everyone's talking about where it's. Everyone's leaving the house and Wes gives Amanda, like, a very intimate hug and kiss on the forehead.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And Amanda has a. Almost a look of like, we just got caught of, like, Like, So that's

[Justin]

what we're saying, though, is like it was more than just the actual hookup where it's like, this would have never happened if they clearly knew that something was weird, even for sure.

[Sierra]

Compared the hug that Amanda gave Carl right where it's still long held but very side, very like, I love you. Like, like very brotherly, sisterly. And then compare that to the hug between her and West. You pulling your chair up next to me, hugging, massaging the hair, kissing the forehead, kissing the side the of of the head. Even the way that Wes was so comfortable grabbing Amanda while she's actually trying to calm her own husband down. I'm just like, you shouldn't be involved in this. And yet here you are. That I'm like, you cannot tell me that something more wasn't going on at that point. They may not have gotten physical, but an emotional connection was formed to where you were going to west for comfort versus your own husband.

[Natalie]

But notice how west was coming to her to comfort her. What? It's always there with his arms open. It's always west coming up to her, her, protecting her, making her feel like this safe little bird that can feel like in his arms.

[Sierra]

So then think about what's. But think about the fact that they've been hanging out on their own for the last six months before this. That I'm like, what is Amanda been going over to his apartment telling him about Kyle, and that was still your active husband. That you were not separated.

[Justin]

Pregaming the date with Mia from southern hospitality.

[Nick]

Who do you think Amanda's first call to was? Post conversation with Kyle. About. About. I'm staying in a hotel for the next two nights.

[Sierra]

West.

[Natalie]

I think it was Sierra.

[Sierra]

I think it was West.

[Justin]

I thought it was.

[Nick]

I want to know. I. That's that I want to know.

[Natalie]

I feel like it was Sierra because they had just had that conversation, and I feel like she. Like, as soon as she gets in the car, she's like, oh, my God, I did it. Like, what? We just talked about this, and I did it, and this is how it went. And maybe her second call.

[Nick]

I hope Andy asked that at the reunion.

[Justin]

Can I ask a question further? And I'm not alleging anything, but do we think she actually went to a hotel or do we think she was spending all that time in west apartment?

[Sierra]

Even if she got a hotel, like, I wouldn't be surprised if she called west to hang out. Like, that's what I'm saying is to get my mind off of things. She wasn't.

[Nick]

She wasn't alone.

[Sierra]

And Sierra definitely confirms that in the reunion because she was like, well, he was comforting you. She's like, what the fuck was I doing? So it's like, you were not calling me when you were calling him to go grab brunch after he had brunch with your husband. But I'm like, this is crazy talk. I'm just like, if I'm choosing to spend. Spend time with somebody who's not my husband, to talk shit about my husband while I'm planning on leaving my husband, it's gonna be the guy you're moving on with. Not like. And she's been with Kyle for how long? And put up with all of his shit for how long?

[Nick]

Yeah, they're. You know, it's like, I think Amanda is really convincing when she's talking to Kyle. Almost like, I can't believe you're accusing me of this. She's very convincing.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But I also think she's kind of maybe convinced herself, because you're right. I mean, it just. It is. There's an intimacy that you see with west and her in the house that is just. There's.

[Natalie]

I do hope there is some acknowledgement of that. And even if it's. If there. If they want to be like, there was nothing. There was nothing. But we see how it looks like. I just hope that the reunion needs some acknowledgement of that, because that's the

[Justin]

only thing they can do, though, is to just admit, like, wrong.

[Damari]

Which.

[Nick]

Which they should. I mean, at this point. Yes. Just. That's what's so crazy. It's just like. I know it's sometimes scary to admit it, but, like, just acknowledge you fucked up and you were a shitty fucking friend. And if. If that cost is to never be friends with Sierra again, you will. She will regret that. But, like, that is a justifiable cost for what he. What she did to Sierra. But stop pretending that you're a victim.

[Sierra]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Even though, yes, we can empathize how you got to this place, but you still did the shitty thing. You were a bad wife. You know, like, you were a bad friend. And. And like, to pretend that's not the case, and for Wes to just be like, oh, shucks, I didn't mean. It is fucking crazy.

[Natalie]

And you know, it is crazy how there was not. He didn't say one thing that entire reunion trailer, even when Jesse's crying and he's like, I just feel like I'm losing my friend. Silent. And maybe they ended it that way

[Sierra]

when Jesse was the one. I think that also was like, stop lying, you guys. This wasn't this sort of sex crazed whatever. Like, it doesn't matter what it was was. It's the fact that it started. It grew into something. And instead of acknowledging that or doing something about it, it's like you guys acted as if it's something that's happening to you. And. And then it's like, oh, well, we're gonna figure this out. And that's why we've been keeping it a secret. And it's like, how long does it take you guys to figure something out? You both know that you're doing something wrong or else you wouldn't feel the need to hide it. You would have been like, hey, it. Sorry, this is the love of my life. Or this is somebody. This is what we're trying to figure out. But I'm like, the idea that you guys are acting like, oh, the fact that other people are hurt, like, west is like, oh, I really found out that my. My actions hurt a lot of people more than I knew. And it's like, what are you.

[Nick]

It's crazy.

[Natalie]

I love how they tried to include, like, other things about the season in the reunion trailer.

[Justin]

Like, for like two seconds we're gonna

[Natalie]

have to sit like, like, kj, who's more your sister. It's like, okay, get to the shit we wanna hear.

[Sierra]

All I know is I need Andy to start this reunion being like, for the first time ever, five part. I need all four parts.

[Justin]

Well, they announced three parts, so in my head, I'm convinced it's going to be two hour, three parts.

[Sierra]

Oh, they better be.

[Justin]

It's not going to be. But.

[Natalie]

But also, like, I don't really, like, I don't really care about the smaller,

[Nick]

you know, unfortunately, like, bend relationship right now.

[Justin]

But honestly, to. To that point, that's where it's like, it was selfish what Wes and Amanda did because now nobody cares about everybody else's experience on the show.

[Sierra]

That's what happened at Scandal.

[Justin]

Same thing with Scandal. All like, it stole the thunder of, like, emotional moments.

[Sierra]

I'm like, divorced for the first time. And then it's like, nobody cares. No, we're not talking about that. But like, hell, like, I do care

[Justin]

about KJ storyline, but now we are not gonna even, like, address it because we need to get to that.

[Sierra]

Oh, my God. When Amanda had the audacity to be like, what? So nobody's ever been in this situation before? Like, she fucking clap back in high school. Yeah, in high school, I was like, thank you.

[Nick]

But again, that's the Part that why is a man to keep trying to protect.

[Sierra]

Pretend yeah that you've done nothing wrong. Why just own it.

[Justin]

Can I play devil's advocate for two seconds and then we can wrap. He doesn't but like what are Amanda and Wes supposed to do? Like I know they messed up like at this reunion they're gonna get obliterated regardless.

[Nick]

They own it.

[Natalie]

You take your beatings. You are a shitty friend. You are a shitty wife. You are a shitty friend to your yeah friend all around. They just go there and they say this. I know, I'm sorry. It was fucked up.

[Justin]

I'm so sorry.

[Nick]

I was selfish. I only thought of myself. I didn't you know I, well I, I thought I was caring but I realized that yeah when Ciara was whether she was opening up to west or opening up to Amanda. Yeah you have to be like yes I was incredibly selfish and I have a lot of like self reflection to do of why I only could give a fuck about my feelings and how I was able to seem like I cared about yours when clearly I, I didn't and I don't have answers for that right now.

[Natalie]

The only way they should and I

[Nick]

need to figure that shit out but like I don't want to be this person who clearly hurt people I, I thought I cared about but yep, I'll

[Natalie]

say kind of boring television so listen

[Sierra]

I, I, I would sit there and watch it either way but I'm just like the idea that you guys could come there being defensive in a way as if, as if you have a leg to stand on, you know what I mean? Where it's just like you've hurt a lot of people Also apologize apologize to your 10 year viewership that you ruined our favorite show because I'm pissed about that.

[Nick]

No, let's they're giving us some of the best television we have seen.

[Justin]

Did they ruin it?

[Nick]

I don't think they need to apologize.

[Sierra]

Oh no I, I want an apology because I'm like how what are the, are the dynamics going to be next season?

[Justin]

The, the next AI allegedly response that Weston Amanda issue is going to be to you personally.

[Nick]

Listen I, I think that was one of the best interests to a new city I'm locked in and city I'm really excited about it. I think it's going to be great. I, I really really am excited about it and I think this only helped that summer house you know how they evolve. I think they would have always had questions because Kyle and Amanda I think in Lindsay its biggest stars have matured outside of going to the Hamptons every weekend.

[Sierra]

Yeah, Kyle will be there no matter what.

[Nick]

Yeah, I think that'll wrap it up. What a fun episode. Thank you guys for listening. Thank you to our guest Amari from Perfect Match. Obviously we will continue to talk about all this drama. We appreciate you listening to all our episodes this week. If you haven't checked them out, we have a full lineup of interviews from the cast of Perfect Match, including Ali Luber. All you Bravo fans, you saw Ali B. The girlfriend of James from Vanderpump. She is now one of the stars of Perfect Match and she is so fun to watch. So be sure to check out that interview as well. We appreciate you all listening. Do not forget to sign up for VOW Files. Plus, we'll see you next week. Bye Bye. The Val House is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing a budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try that progressive.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates prices and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Save on family essentials at Safeway and Albertsons this week at Safeway and Albertsons enjoy eight piece double breaded famous chicken fried or baked dark meat featuring four legs and four thighs for just 5.99 each. Member Price available in the deli and sweet red cherries are $2.97 per pound limit 6 pounds member price with digital coupon plus 24 ounce selected varieties of fresh cut fruit bowls are $5 each. Visit safeway or albertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.