E1149 - It's been four years. He never says I love you | Ask Nick

Summary

The Viall Files – E1149 – “It’s Been Four Years. He Never Says I Love You.” | Ask Nick

Date: June 29, 2026 | Host: Nick Viall
Episode Theme: This episode of "Ask Nick" dives deep into the complexities of long-distance love, the emotional labor of seeking confirmation in relationships, and navigating boundaries with family—specifically, the difficulties of not hearing "I love you" after years with a partner, deciding when to pull back in uncertain romantic connections, and setting healthy limits in parenting and in-law dynamics.

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Episode Overview

Nick Viall, with appearances from Natalie and his team, offers practical and empathetic advice to listeners grappling with relationship dilemmas—particularly the push-pull of connection, vulnerability, and honest communication. The episode features three main callers:

1. Marie: Heartbroken after her long-distance boyfriend suggests being "just friends," despite deep mutual feelings.
2. Rachel: Struggling after four years with a boyfriend who has never said "I love you" back.
3. Megan: A new mother conflicted about sharing her baby with family while processing old hurts with her in-laws.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Marie: Long Distance, Unrequited Effort, & The Need for Boundaries

Timestamps: [02:38–23:35]

Situation

• Marie (30, Chicago) describes a long-distance relationship with a man she met via TikTok, which transitioned from friendship to dating. Despite strong chemistry and mutual declarations of love, her boyfriend recently stated he can’t handle the distance and wants to be friends.
• Ongoing emotional and logistical investments: alternating travel every six weeks; a vacation planned together complicates "moving on."

Major Insights

• Don’t Convince Someone to Choose You:
  “You don't want to give other people access to yourself when they're saying, 'I'm willing to give you less of me.' … You can't really convince anyone how they feel.” – Nick ([08:07])

• Honoring New Relationship Terms:
  “He changed the expectations of the relationship. … Every day you continue to do the things you did before when you were dating … it waters down the expectations. … It gives you less of a foot to stand on.” – Nick ([09:59])

• Setting a Boundary is Strength:
  “It ultimately changed [with Natalie and me] when she set a boundary … It wasn't playing games. She was just being honest with herself.” – Nick ([11:10])

• No Half-Measures When Protecting Your Heart:
  “I can't be your friend. … I care about you, but … you're never going to be just a friend. … I want to start moving on and stop hoping there could be something different.” – Nick ([12:16])

• Power Dynamics in Breakups:
  “He wants to take away the frustration while still getting the enjoyment—which is your company. And it's probably exhausting for both of you.” – Nick ([15:09])

• When 'Someday' Is Just an Excuse:
  “He told me I was the one, so... but you can’t make it to the year? … Instead of saying 'I’m confused,' say 'That doesn't make sense.'” – Nick ([17:18–17:44])

• Action Plan:
  “You need to stop … the goal is to show him you have self-control.” ([19:02])
  “People are very attracted to other people who have the discipline that they don't.” ([23:19])

Memorable Moment

Marie struggles with the discipline to actually make the break, echoing many listeners’ experiences:
“I've already begged for him to try. And that's just ridiculous.” ([19:11])

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2. Rachel: Four Years & Still Waiting for “I Love You”

Timestamps: [26:51–58:23]

Situation

• Rachel (27) has been in a relationship with her boyfriend (26) for four years—much of it long distance. Despite daily “I love yous” from her, he’s never once said it back, giving vague answers and insisting, “I want to say it when I’m ready.”
• She feels increasingly invalidated and “annoying” for pressing the issue.

Major Insights

• You Can’t Extract Affection:
  “You’re definitely not going to get your way by being annoying about it. … Side comments that aren’t productive … just make him defensive.” – Nick ([29:01])

• State Your Needs Clearly:
  “You have the right to say, ‘It's important to me to know where I stand with my partner …’” – Nick ([30:20])

• Words Matter When That’s Your Love Language:
  “If words of affirmation is in that equation, you have the right to say like, it's important to me to know where I stand with my partner.” ([30:20])

• Ultimatum Versus Clarity:
  “[At some point you can say] … I guess you don't. And if you don't, after four years, I don't know if we should be together.” ([31:59])

• Couples Therapy as a Necessary Step:
  “If we want to move in together, then I want us to go to couples therapy, because I would think we can communicate more effectively.” ([34:19])

• Looking for Progress, Not Perfection:
  “Don’t let him call you needy. … He needs to show up when you ask him to show up.” – Nick ([50:20])

• Don’t Wait Indefinitely:
  “You don't have a lifetime [to wait]. … You have four years of information.” ([45:04])

Notable Quotes

• “It feels like never, but I mean, that's a great way of saying it: I can't remember the last time [he said anything affirming].” – Nick ([52:18])
• “The more serious he takes you, the more likely he will eventually come around.” – Nick ([54:08])

Memorable Moment

Rachel admits she’s told no one about the lack of “I love you” because it’s so embarrassing, highlighting the shame many feel about unmet emotional needs.
“I haven't told literally anybody that he hasn't said this to me because I just feel like it's so embarrassing at this point.” ([51:15])

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3. Megan: Sharing Her Baby, Setting Limits with In-Laws, and the Power of Letting Go

Timestamps: [60:38–91:58]

Situation

• Megan (31), a new mom, struggles to “share” her baby with eager family members during precious off-work hours and wrestles with unresolved hurts regarding her wife’s parents. Her in-laws’ past coldness (rooted in their Catholic background) and current over-eagerness to be with the grandchild complicate Megan’s feelings.

Major Insights

• Parenting Boundaries Are Not Optional:
  “This is your kid, it’s your blood. You and your wife get to raise this child how you see fit, and no one—including any parents—get to have to say otherwise.” – Nick ([65:32])

• How to Set Boundaries Kindly:
  “It doesn’t have to be a conflict. A direct conversation isn’t always a conflict.” – Nick ([62:24])

• Letting Go of Old Hurts:
  “That thing happened and it was hurtful 10 years ago. … I would just be careful not to confuse an old stubborn man in his hometown with having more to do with you than the fact that he wants to go to his place.” – Nick ([77:25])

• Progress > Grudges:
  “Try focusing on the progress rather than … how they showed up in the past.” – Nick ([74:17])

• Assume Positive Intent:
  “We’ve gotten into a rabbit hole of assuming the worst in everyone, and I think life’s just a lot better when you do the opposite.” – Nick ([85:09])

• You Don’t Have to Be Right, Just Happy:
  “Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? … I’m exhausted.” – Megan ([89:18])

Memorable Moment

Megan, exhausted by holding on to grudges, reflects on spending her energy:
“Your energy—think of it like currency. It's not infinite … It's easy to waste your energy on things that don't ultimately matter.” – Nick ([84:45])

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Memorable Quotes by Timestamp

• “Why am I convincing somebody they want to be with me?” – Marie ([08:04])
• “Every day you continue to do the things you did before when you were dating … it waters down the expectations.” – Nick ([09:59])
• “I guess you don't. And if you don't, after four years, I don't know if we should be together.” – Nick to Rachel ([31:59])
• “I'm not going to move for someone that doesn't love me.” – Rachel ([34:08])
• “You don't want to give other people access to yourself when they're saying, ‘I'm willing to give you less of me.’” – Nick ([08:07])
• “This is your kid … No one can tell you, and as long as you are a good parent … you and your wife get to raise this child how you see fit.” – Nick ([65:32])
• “That handshake, it was hurtful 10 years ago … but I would just be careful not to confuse a stubborn old man with having more to do with you than the fact that he wants to go to his place.” – Nick ([77:25])

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Important Timestamps

• [02:38] – Marie describes her long-distance relationship troubles
• [11:10] – Nick shares how boundaries changed his own LDR with Natalie
• [17:06] – Marie struggles with being told “you’re the one”—but not getting commitment
• [26:51] – Rachel introduces her “four years, never said I love you” dilemma
• [30:20] – Nick encourages Rachel to express her needs around words of affirmation
• [34:19] – Couples therapy as a path forward for communication issues
• [50:13] – Rachel struggles with a partner who can’t say or show love
• [60:38] – Megan calls about sharing her baby and in-law boundary struggles
• [65:32] – Nick’s bottom line: “It’s your kid—you are in control”
• [74:17–77:25] – Handling lingering pain from her wife's parents’ past coldness
• [85:09] – The importance of assuming best intent, not the worst, to free emotional energy

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Advice Summaries

• On Breakups:
  Respect when someone draws a boundary, but don’t stick around hoping they’ll change if they have made their intentions clear.
• On Unspoken Love:
  Don’t accept less than reciprocal emotional investment; you are not “needy” for wanting validation.
• On Family Boundaries:
  As a parent, you get to protect your time and your child; set limits from a position of confidence, not apology. Let go of old grudges to focus on happiness, not “being right.”
• On Communication:
  Direct, calm expressions of needs are more productive than side comments or silent resentment.

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Closing Tone

Nick maintains his signature mix of pragmatic empathy, gentle realism, and blunt honesty. The show embraces vulnerability, acknowledges pain, and repeatedly affirms listeners’ rights to pursue self-respect and clarity in relationships. Through each caller, Nick encourages both practical action (setting boundaries, seeking therapy, letting go) and deep self-reflection.

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone grappling with ambiguous romantic situations, navigating long-term partnership expectations, or learning to assert themselves in family dynamics.

Transcript

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[Caller Rachel]

You're crazy.

[Nick Viall]

How's it going?

[Caller Marie]

Good. How are you?

[Caller Rachel]

Good.

[Nick Viall]

What's your name?

[Caller Marie]

I'm Marie. I'm 30 years old. I wanted to call because I have a situation. Nothing is wrong, but distance is an issue. And you're a great person because you started long distance with you and Natalie. So I met this person, I met this guy on TikTok last year, last summer.

[Nick Viall]

How does one meet someone on TikTok? I is that he popped up on

[Caller Marie]

my for you page and I thought he was the most attractive man I've ever met. So of course I followed him right away. Followed him on Instagram. He followed me back.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Caller Marie]

He ended up messaging me first and we just hit it off.

[Nick Viall]

All right.

[Caller Rachel]

All right.

[Caller Marie]

So we first started as just friends and built a good friendship last summer. And then in October decided that we would try to date. However, it was long distance. I'm in Chicago, he's on the east coast.

[Nick Viall]

It's a quick flight.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah. Hour and a half. It's not a bad flight at all, honestly. And so we have been seeing each other since October. We've been dating and it's been going very well. Every time we see each other, it's been hard because, I mean, just he's a dad and financially pto wise at work for me, taking time off to purchase flights all the time. Yeah, I mean, we see each other like every six weeks, which is not ideal, honestly.

[Nick Viall]

That's definitely tough. Yeah.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah. We do the best we can, but it's been amazing every time we're together, it just. It gets better and better every time. It's incredible. I've never met a man like him. However, we're at the point that distance is becoming too much for him. Like every six weeks is not working out. He wants to see me, you know, every day, every other day, a couple days a week, if possible. That's just not logical. Being states away from each other. And so we've come to a point where it's. He's battling if he continues with the distance, if it worth it, or if he, you know, says that distance is Too much. He'd rather be friends because he just. He can't do the distance. Our time together has been great. He's been telling me that he cares so deeply about me. I can't wrap my brain around the fact that somebody could maybe want to end it just because of distance. Now every six weeks, I get. So we've talked about trying to accommodate maybe every three weeks or every four weeks at most. Every four.

[Nick Viall]

Is it always you flying there?

[Caller Marie]

No. He comes here, too, so we've. We've done both. I go there more just because he does have a child. So it's easier for me to take off, work my schedule than it is for him to, you know, find, care for his. His child or take off of work.

[Nick Viall]

But every. Every six weeks, mean, are you alternating somewhat?

[Caller Marie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Which means, like, that means. That means you guys are only having to visit one another every three months. That's not.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah. Yeah. So in my head also, I'm thinking, even though he tells me he cares so much and I'm, like, battling. I feel like there's excuses also, so I don't know what to make of that.

[Nick Viall]

Do you feel like he's pulling away?

[Caller Marie]

Yeah. So actually, since I wrote in, he's made the decision that he thinks it's better off for us to be friends.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, okay.

[Caller Marie]

So I. I've been, like, trying to convince him and talk him into. Well, if you feel like your feelings are what they are, if we both feel that way, I mean, we drop the L word. Said, I love you. Like, if you really feel that way, why would you want to end it? I feel like I've kind of made myself be a little delusional with hope of still dating and making it work. We also have a vacation planned together next month, and so are you still going?

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Caller Marie]

I don't know. Help me figure it out.

[Nick Viall]

I know. I know what you need to do. All right, listen. Obviously, difficult situation. I don't. You know.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

But, like, you know, this is definitely just your typical game of cat and mouse type of thing. And there's some variables. I know. Like, every time we make, like, a clip, and we're like, you got to play the game. Everyone's like, I don't. I refuse to play the game. Listen, like, I don't want to play a game. No one wants to play the game. But the game isn't. The game isn't like, two adults being like, I like games. You know what I'm saying? It's just like the. It's the kind of emotional dance that comes with us trying to figure out, is this worth it? And early in relationships, you know, there's a lot of back and forth. You know, the game is just basically the power dynamic game. Right. And a lot of it is just kind of like how we're feeling, trying to understand our feelings. He is grappling and juggling, like being a dad and I don't know what his relationship with the mother of his child and things like that. Don't know what your guys's financial situation is and things like that. That all plays a role. But what you do know right now is you have information and that is he has pulled back a little bit and he has said he just wants to be friends now. It's understandable, like, early on that you were like, you know, you acknowledge that. You try to almost convince him to change his mind, you know, which is not something you don't want to do that, you know.

[Caller Marie]

No, I'm starting to feel like, why am I convincing somebody they want to be with?

[Nick Viall]

Correct. Right. And that's the game, right? Call it a, you know, you, you don't have to call it a game. You can just call it like, yeah, you know, so more than anything, you don't want to give other people access to yourself when they're saying, I'm, I'm, I'm. I want less from you, and I'm willing to give you less of me. And the way to get them to change their mind if you want them to change their mind isn't to give more access to you. And now access is like you, you calling and you know, kind of convinced. You know, no one likes to be convinced to how they feel. In fact, you can't really convince anyone how they feel. And usually when we try to convince people to feel a certain way, it has the opposite effect.

[Caller Marie]

It does the opposite.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, well, so you can be sad, you can be disappointed. It's a. It's important to communicate all those things. You can communicate that like, I don't, I don't. This is not what I would choose.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

But I'm gonna go ahead and I, I, you know, I have no other choice but to respect your decision.

[Caller Marie]

Nothing's changed in our dynamic other than we don't know pet names we're not seeing. We talk from good morning to good night still all the time. So I. And we do. We have a trip next month. So I guess. I don't know, do I? Just like.

[Nick Viall]

So that's again. So back up a little bit. Right. So Something has changed. And the thing. And it's a big deal. It's just like he. He was like, I, I, we should stop doing this.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

So he changed the expectations of the relationship. And because the act. Because the actions haven't changed that. That every day that you guys continue to do the same thing that you did before when you were. When you were dating and you felt like you had that security, it changes the. Every day you do that, it waters down the expectations of the relationship. And so you're doing the thing where, like, well, he said one thing. I don't want the thing he said, but he's also willing to keep doing the thing I want him to do.

[Caller Marie]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

And so that feels good. And then. But it also feels confusing. But what it's also doing is changing the expectations. It's allowing him to say the thing. I was honest with you. I told you what I wanted. I was very clear, and that is to be friends. I told you I can't keep doing this. And the fact that you keep talking, hanging out, communicating with him is giving him the power at any moment to say, I told you what I wanted and I told you what I didn't want, and. And it gives you less of a foot to stand on.

[Caller Marie]

Do I just. I guess. I don't know. I feel like maybe I should pull back something because, well, that's one thing he is great with. He's great with communicating his boundaries, everything. So now that he's let me know that he's only friends, and I'm still trying to. We're still talking all the time. I have hope in my brain of the possibility of dating again still, even though he's been very clear. So maybe. Maybe I do need to pull back a little bit. Not the constant talking from good morning to good night. I don't know. Like, I want to talk to him, but I also think that plays a little trick on my brain that we're still talking just as much as before. So I don't want to set myself up for, you know, disappointment either.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, listen, at some point, listen. Yeah. No one wants to do that. And if this ends, it sounds like you're going to be disappointed. So there's. Yeah, you're already in it. And again, like, you know, listen, it's. There's no perfect way of doing it, but you called in with the, you know, hey, you and you. You and Natalie started long distance. I'm sure you've heard, you know, the versions of our story, but, yeah, it ultimately changed when she Set a boundary and changed her, you know, and just kind of said, I, I can't. I, you know, and it wasn't like a. It. She wasn't playing games. She was just being honest with herself. And then she had the guts and the discipline to say no.

[Caller Marie]

That's one thing I feel like I'm lacking is the discipline with it at this point.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, you can find it. It's, you know, you can do it.

[Caller Marie]

It's so hard. But, yeah, no, I, I can because it's like, at first I told him that I respectfully, like, I don't think I can be your friend right now with the amount of emotions that are there.

[Nick Viall]

I wouldn't even say right now. Try to work on being more definitive.

[Caller Marie]

Okay. Yeah, you're.

[Nick Viall]

You're. You. So too much of this limbo relationship is, is, is kind of in the gray areas in limbo, and it's okay to say, I can't be your friend. Yeah, you know, I like you, I care about you. Like, you know, like, also, obviously we have a friendship. And like, you, you, you know, you have become a very close friend of mine, but you're never going to be just a friend. And if, if this isn't going to work out, I always want to start moving on and stop hoping there could be something different. And if I meet someone else, you can't be my, you know, again, to stop doing the whole right now and maybe later and someday and because again, that just gives him. He's having a hard time making a choice. And the good news is he probably likes you too. And obviously the reason he keeps talking to you.

[Caller Marie]

So our vacation next month. What do I do?

[Nick Viall]

I wouldn't go.

[Caller Marie]

That's what my therapist said, too.

[Nick Viall]

You just say you have to listen, the best thing you can do right now is to be the adult in the room. Doesn't mean he's not being the adult. I'm just saying make sure that you are. And you're gonna have to make difficult decisions. And then by adult, I mean the kid inside you is going to convince yourself to do the thing that you want to do. And the adult in the room, so to speak, is, I know what I want, but I'm not sure it's what's best for me long term.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah, I think that is pretty spot on.

[Nick Viall]

And I can always go on a vacation, you know, type of thing. And you're just gonna. The best thing for you, you to do is say no to him. And not in an aggressive way. Not in a, like a Snappy way. Not just in a. I'd love to. I'd love to, but it's just, like, it's too hard for both of us. It's certainly too hard for me, and I don't want to keep. It's just going to confuse me. And, like, if we can't commit to trying to figure this out. And again, also, you also just have to be practical with yourself. Right. Like, I don't know. You know, if. When I met Natalie, if she was like, listen, I. I just got this new job. I'm. I love where I live. There's just no world in which I'm moving to la.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

We. We wouldn't have gotten together. We would have stopped talking eventually. You know, I mean, I don't know that it would have been messy, and I pro. You know, it had been difficult for us, and we would probably have done similar things to what you guys are doing, which is to say one thing and do another.

[Caller Marie]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

But it would have been very challenging. There was no version where I was gonna move there.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And short of me convincing her to change her mind, which, you know, would have been something I probably thinking, like, about wouldn't have been comfortable doing.

[Caller Marie]

Right. And I feel like that's also now me trying to convince him is like, it's not comfortable. It's not. So. I don't know. Like, I don't want it to. To end. I'd rather be friends than not have him in my life.

[Nick Viall]

Don't want to be friends. You don't. Stop saying that. Stop saying that.

[Caller Marie]

No, I don't. I don't. I want more.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. He's not your friend. It's not.

[Caller Marie]

He's an ex at this point.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I mean, and he might change his mind. I mean, that's the thing, is you just need to give him a moment of realizing that you are serious about your feelings and you are serious about protecting your heart. And you're good at that. And he can't get mad at you for it, because right now he is looking for, as we all do, a way through. And right now, since he does, you know, he doesn't want to or doesn't think he can move there and vice versa. He wants to take away the frustration while still getting the enjoyment, which is the company that you have. And it's probably exhausting for both of you to be like, well, what are we going to do? And what are we going to do? And you guys don't have an answer. So you're trying to take the. What do we do off the equation?

[Caller Megan]

Yeah.

[Caller Marie]

And I tried to tell him, like, I'll move there. We talked about moving at the one year mark in October, like me moving there.

[Nick Viall]

So you're willing to move?

[Caller Marie]

Yeah. And he said he.

[Nick Viall]

And he doesn't want you.

[Caller Marie]

No, he said that one year in October from dating is totally realistic. And, and yeah, that's a good plan, but realistically he can't do distance for a year to get to that point.

[Nick Viall]

And then I, I mean, listen, that's, that's, that's fair. Well, no, it's a red flag.

[Caller Marie]

Oh, really?

[Nick Viall]

Like, how old is this guy? How old is this guy?

[Caller Marie]

37. I'm 37 years old.

[Nick Viall]

37 years old. He's got a kid. Like, this is not a 22 year old.

[Caller Marie]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

You know, he's obviously busy. You know, he can talk to you every day. He does talk to you every day. He doesn't like you enough with a plan and a willingness for you to move.

[Caller Marie]

And Nick, that's what is driving me insane in my brain because it's like you told me how much you care about me, but the words and actions aren't matching up.

[Nick Viall]

Well, then I should tell you something again. To me that's sounding more like he. Whatever he said to you, he got, you know, ahead of himself. Or maybe he doesn't. You know, some people like saying, I

[Caller Marie]

mean, he told me I was the one, so. But you can't make it to the ear. So I don't know, I'm just confused. I'm very confused.

[Nick Viall]

Well, don't be confused.

[Caller Marie]

Okay?

[Nick Viall]

I only say that because, like, you know that doesn't make sense.

[Caller Megan]

Right?

[Caller Marie]

Yes, I know that.

[Nick Viall]

So instead of saying I'm confused, say that doesn't make sense.

[Caller Marie]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

You know what I'm saying? Like, I know, I know I'm splitting, but it's like a narrative of like, you know, that's not confusing.

[Caller Marie]

Correct.

[Nick Viall]

You know, you know that it doesn't make sense. Like, you can't tell me this and say that I am trying to remove all the excuses you're giving me and you come up with more excuses. I'm willing to move there. Well, I. Yes, blah, blah, blah. So that tells me that, you know, it was fun to say all these things when it was more like you graduate from college and you go to Europe for three months. You meet someone and you just know that like, you're just not moving. You're not moving to Europe and they're not moving here, and you can just

[Caller Marie]

like, oh my God, that's basically what this was.

[Nick Viall]

I love you. And like, you know, and he's, you know. It sounds like a little bit of that.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah, it does. When you put it that way, it does sound like that.

[Nick Viall]

This is all to say my advice doesn't change in that. Again, I'm not saying he's like some piece of. And I'm not saying he's intentionally doing this. Who knows? But the only way to figure out how sincere he is.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Is to not be convenient for what he is trying to do, which is to have access to you without committing to anything. And so I need to pull back. You need to stop. You know, I can't do the vacation. I certainly can't. You know what? You no. Pull back. No, I don't think you should pull back. I think you should stop, you know, because.

[Caller Marie]

All together.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Caller Marie]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

As much as you can. I know that won't be easy, but you need to, like, the goal is to stop.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

The goal is to show him you have self control.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah. Because I think I've shown the opposite at this point, which is not what I want. It's not what who I feel like I am. But unfortunately, I've already begged for him to try. And that's just ridiculous.

[Nick Viall]

Honestly. Listen. But that's okay. That's okay. You know, like, you haven't lost anything you can. Today is a new day to show that you've found that discipline.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Because again, you like them and you want this and that. There's nothing wrong with saying that. There's nothing wrong in admitting to someone that, like, I like you and I like this, and I would be willing to do what it takes. But what I'm not willing to do is have you not willing to do what it takes and still give you access to me after you've made it clear that you're not willing to do the same things I'm willing to do.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah. I need to just like, stand on that, be firm about it.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah.

[Caller Marie]

Because last time I. I told him, you know, I can't be your friend. I care too much. And then I. I changed my mind not even 24 hours later.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And you're not saying I can't be friends with you. You're saying I can't be friends with you right now.

[Caller Marie]

Correct. Yeah.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

That's you saying, well, I. Help me become. Help me care less. And so, like, that's like an in and a permission structure to just talk to him every day. Because. Because you guys, you're trying to reach A goal. And it's not the new goal. It's not the goal that you had before, which is to, like, be closer to him. And, you know, now the goal is to be friends.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah. I need to give myself a break away from. From him, maybe to even just heal and move on from it completely because I. My feelings are involved. I am emotionally attached at this point. I want. I don't want to be friends. I want to date. But he's been very clear that's not what he wants.

[Nick Viall]

And the best thing you do when you communicate that is to be kind of chill about it.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

I'd love to go on this vacation. I just can't. You don't want a relationship, and I don't want to be your friend.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah, maybe that's exactly how all.

[Nick Viall]

You can't wait four more months? I mean, come on.

[Caller Marie]

I know October is not that far away. I mean, it's just not.

[Nick Viall]

I just don't think he's serious again, like, you just. He needs to. He needs to reflect with the idea of knowing that, like, she clearly will stop talking to me if I don't do something about it. But right now, you're giving him all the wrong signals, which is, I don't have to commit to her because I can still go on vacation with her. I get to talk to her every day, and I'll worry about whatever I have to worry about later when that changes.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah, that's true. He still has all the access to me.

[Nick Viall]

Let him know that you're serious about protecting your feelings. Let him know that you have the discipline to do the thing that's best for you long term and see if he's willing to make some moves and make some changes. But if not, you know, begging and hoping isn't going to change it. Well, I appreciate the call. Let us know what you decide and give us an update down the road. We'd certainly appreciate that, but call it a game. Call it, you know, it's. It's. It's juggling emotions. It's. You know, it is. You're just. It's more about just being consistent and steady.

[Caller Marie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You know, and usually that person wins, so to speak. Whether they get what they want, I don't know.

[Caller Marie]

But, you know, still come out, you know, on top. Yeah, no, you're right about that.

[Nick Viall]

But it sounds like he really likes you. It's just, like. It's probably confusing, and the quickest way to figure that out is to take away his access.

[Caller Marie]

It'll be hard, but I think that's the best.

[Nick Viall]

Stop telling yourself will be hard and make it seem like it's easy. And if he asks you and then start dating.

[Caller Marie]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

And if he reaches out because he will and checks in, don't hide the fact that you have dates. I wouldn't lie about it. I wouldn't go out of your way to make him jealous. But if you happen to have something lined up and he asks about it and, and if he wants to be your friend, that's what friends do. They talk about the dates that they have. So go be a friend. You know what I'm saying? Like, but that's the thing.

[Caller Marie]

That's a fair point.

[Nick Viall]

You know, that's what friends do. And you can gently point that out if it asks. Be like, I have it. You know, what are you up to? I got a date tonight. With who? I don't. I mean a person.

[Caller Marie]

Why doesn't it matter?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, don't do it to try to get a reaction. Just be honest.

[Caller Marie]

No, I don't want.

[Nick Viall]

Just move forward. Start dating. People are very attracted to other people who have the discipline that they don't.

[Caller Marie]

I think that's a very accurate statement.

[Nick Viall]

All right, well, good luck.

[Caller Marie]

Thanks. I need it.

[Nick Viall]

All right.

[Caller Marie]

Bye.

[Nick Viall]

Bye. What's up everybody? Don't forget that all Vile Files plus content is ad free plus for all you ask Nick listeners out there. Your update special are ready and waiting for you. I know you are very interested on the follow up calls. What has happened to these people after they heard my advice? Did it help them? Did it hurt them? Has their life changed? Well, you can find out on update plus and you can get update plus behind vile files plus so go to vilefiles.com to sign up. As parents, we know that teaching your kids about money is going to be an important conversation. Thank God they're only River's only two yet and twins haven't even been born. But it is something that we are going to want to do sooner than later because knowing how to handle finances is such a key step to success in life. Well, Cash app now offers managed accounts for kids ages 6 to 12 that grow with them all the way into adulthood. Parents run the account so they stay involved every step of the way. You can monitor activity, guide decisions and turn everyday spending into learning opportunities. It's like a really advanced piggy bank that's going to help your kids teach them about finances and how to manage their money, which is a skill set that they will use for the rest of their lives. Their savings habits and account history. Stay with them as they move from parent managed accounts to a teen account to eventually to a full adult account. Having a tool that allows you to stay involved while giving your kids financial independence is a great way to build healthy spending habits early. You can monitor activity, guide decisions and turn everyday spending into learning opportunities. If you're ready to start teaching money habits without adding more stress to your plate, download Cash App and set up a managed account for your child today. For a limited time, new Cash App customers who are parents can use our exclusive referral code Family10 to earn $10. Download Cash App, enter the referral code in your profile and send $5 to a friend within 14 days and you will receive $10 terms applied. Cash App is the financial services platform. Banking services provided by Cash Apps Banking Partners Prepaid debit cards issued by Sudden bank member FDIC Cash App Visa Debit Flex cards issued by suddenbank member FDIC and the Bancorp bank pursuant to a license from Visa usa incorporate terms and conditions for the Sudden Prepaid cards, Sutton Debit Flex Card and Bank Flex Card Savings and offers provided by Cash App Incorporated. Brand parents and legal guardians can open a manage account for kids at 6 through 12. Visit podcast for full disclosures.

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[Nick Viall]

How's it going?

[Caller Rachel]

Hi, my name is Rachel and I'm 27 years old and my boyfriend of four years has never told me he's loved me.

[Nick Viall]

Okay do you think he loves you?

[Caller Rachel]

I do think he does, yeah. But he's never actually said it before.

[Nick Viall]

I'm sure you've talked about it. What does he say?

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, like, we've been dating for four years and I've probably told him that I loved him. Probably about like a year or so into it, kind of hoping that he would kind of say it first. And yeah, ever since then, he's never said it back, even though I say it pretty much every day. And when I ask him if he loves me, he kind of, I don't know, he doesn't really give me a great answer and he'll just say like, you know, I really, really like you. It's something that I really want to say when I'm ready, and that's about all I get.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, well, not the best answer. How old is he?

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, he's 26 and I'm 27.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Caller Rachel]

And he's never like said I love you to anyone else like before, like in a relationship.

[Nick Viall]

It's, listen, this is a slightly tricky one just because it's not like he's, you know, technically doing anything wrong. I imagine from his point of view he's trying to be authentic to himself. I don't think any of us want to force someone right to professing love. That all being said, you've been together for four years.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You guys aren't kid. You're young, but you're certainly not kids. I don't know. Have you guys talked about your future together?

[Caller Marie]

Yeah.

[Caller Rachel]

Like right now I'm in school, I'm getting my doctorate, and we do like a long distance relationship right now, so we're about like four hours away. I'm actually visiting him right now and I asked him again kind of last night, like, I'll joke with him too. Like, oh, it's tonight, the night you're going to tell me you love me kind of thing. And he just never says anything back. But.

[Nick Viall]

Well, I say this with love, but you're definitely not going to get your way by being annoying about it.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah. And I feel like it's getting to be annoying at this point.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, well, the, the, and by annoying, I just mean like the kind of side comments that aren't coming from a place of like, trying to be productive and trying to connect with your boyfriend and just like, just have a conversation. And the conversation that I feel like you should have with him goes something like, you know, we've been together for four years and I certainly don't want to, you know, I don't want you to say something you don't mean and feel, but you're a 27 year old man, you know, and I want to be in a relationship where I connect with my partner and we grow our feelings and evolve. And I'm assuming you do love me because, like, to be in a relationship like this requires a lot of commitment and sacrifice and I don't know how you do that without having some kind of love. But more importantly, I think what I'm struggling with is the fact that you seem really resistant to opening up to me and I don't know what your love languages are, but if words of affirmation is in that equation.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You have the right to say like, it's important to me to know where I stand with my partner and I do want to feel that love. And part of feeling love for me is like hearing that, you know, and we have been together for four years and it seems like you, you know, I don't want us communicating our affection and love for each other to be such a struggle in our relationship. And it seems like it is. It's, you know, it is a, is a problem for our relationship because you either don't love me and we've been together for four years, or you do love me and it's just hard for you to open up in a way that makes me feel a little unsafe in our relationship.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I would agree with that. Like, I don't think he would still be in this relationship after like four years doing long distance if he didn't love me. But I think probably the communication is where he's not expressing it.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And it's just a real, it's a real difficult needle to thread because there's just a lot of ways you could say this to him that would make him get defensive and, and almost not like in a way that he's deliberately gaslighting you, but it would be easy for him to flip it around and be like, I don't like, why are you making me.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Say something I'm not ready to say.

[Caller Rachel]

I feel like that's what the conversations have looked like in the past. Like he does just get defensive with it.

[Nick Viall]

This is. But it's been like, you know, you're, at some point you're like, bro, it's been four years.

[Caller Rachel]

Well, that's the thing. I'm like, it's going to be years.

[Nick Viall]

Like, I think it's one of those things. You almost have to take him at his word and say, well, listen, I guess I'm just going to go ahead and just take you at your wor and I'm just gonna believe you. And I guess you don't. And if you don't, after four years, I don't know if we should be together.

[Caller Rachel]

Right. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And see what he says.

[Caller Rachel]

Kind of like an ultimatum.

[Nick Viall]

And again, this is not about making him say you love you. It's just about like and, and almost like in a way, he says, I just want to have a safe space for us to like.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Tell each other how we feel about each other. And you. What does he say to you? Like, how does he communicate to you? Like, what words does he say to you that show affection? And his words of affirmation up there for you?

[Caller Rachel]

For me, I didn't really initially think it was, but I, starting now, like being in a long distance relationship, I do feel like words of affirmation is what I need the most.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Caller Rachel]

Otherwise it's quality time. But I feel like I sort of have to compensate when I'm not able to be around him like 24, seven.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, listen, you know, listen, you're 27, you've been with him for four years. It's kind of like a get off the pot moment for you. You know, you're still really young, but you're also like, you know.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Your 30s are around the corner. And not that you're, you know, your 30s should be wonderful and fun and one, you know, but I'm just, you know.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

This is a great, like 27. It's a great time of your life. I wouldn't waste it.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And you've been with this guy for four years and it's just one of those things where you're just like, if.

[Caller Rachel]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

I don't want to make you say something you don't want to feel, but I don't want to. I just don't want to be a relationship with someone who like has such a hard time communicating to the person in the relationship with how they make them feel. I really, I don't want to have to ask. You just never communicate anything to me.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And I, I do need to hear that sometimes. I don't feel like I'm being some crazy partner.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

By just being like, yo, like say something nice.

[Caller Rachel]

Right. It's not that hard, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like with a year left of my school, like, I feel like he, I already signed like a job back in my home state and so like is coming to move down with me once I graduate. I don't Think he would. Right. But I'm like, so obviously, like, you wouldn't move for me if you didn't love me, but at the same time, I don't want to be, like, moving in with somebody if they can't.

[Nick Viall]

All right, so, like, take that stuff. Would you agree that you want to take this relationship serious and you want him to take it as serious as you take it? Would you agree with that?

[Caller Rachel]

Yes. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Would you agree that at 27 years old and four years later, you need to know that this is a serious relationship to both of you? Yeah, I would. I would suggest couples therapy. I imagine he'll be resistant, but I imagine so. You have to Dem. You have to, again, without getting into the weeds, without being obnoxious, without the little jabs. You just have to say it like I'm saying it, which is like, listen, we've been together for four years. We're planning on moving in together. You refuse to tell me how you feel about me. I literally have no idea. Honestly, I think you love me, but that feels crazy that I have to say I think you love me because you haven't said it. And listen, I don't want you to say something that you don't want to say, but I do want to be with someone who is a little more comfortable opening up to their partner, and I want to get on the same page with you, and I want to take our relationship serious. And if you want to take it as serious as I want to take it, and if you want to move in with me, then I want us to go to couples therapy, because I would think we can communicate more effectively and better with each other. And I just want to have a better connection with you. And if he argues about that or gets the heebie jeebies or whatever, he either isn't too immature to give you what you want and deserve, or, you know, he just doesn't want to. And you don't want to be with someone who just doesn't want to. And always just, you know, and if this isn't your guy, I would figure it out much sooner than later.

[Caller Rachel]

Right. And that's, I think, kind of where I'm at, because I feel like it's almost been, like, consuming my mind lately for whatever reason. I don't know why, like, four years later, and now I'm just like. It's all I think about. And things are, like, tend to get on my nerves more with him when he does something. I'm like, oh, it's because he doesn't love Me or.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. I mean, you were. You. You have so starting acting crazy because he is trying to normalize the fact that, like.

[Caller Rachel]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

You know, it's just like, you can't pressure anyone to say anything. They love you. So whether it's four years or 40 years, he's just not there yet. Well, fine if he's not there yet, but you just, you know, you don't have a lifetime to. To wait. And. And also, like, he doesn't get to move in with you, Right?

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, that too.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, cool. Like, yeah, I just. At a minimum, I don't. I'm not going to share a life with someone who.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And that's part of, like, communicate how they feel.

[Caller Rachel]

The reason why I took the job in the first place. I'm like, he originally thought I was going to, like, get a job where he lives, like, expecting me to move for him, but I'm like, no, I'm not gonna move for someone that doesn't love me. That doesn't. Yeah. Express those feelings. So I went ahead and took this job and honestly didn't even really talk to him about it. Just kind of signed the contract and said, this is what I'm doing. Like, you can come or not. And. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And he was like, I'm coming.

[Caller Rachel]

Oh. At first it was like more of an argument about it, but at the end of the day, I had to do, like, what's best for me, and it was a great opportunity.

[Nick Viall]

So you. You made a decision. He didn't like your decision. Yeah, he threw a little. He threw a little bit of a fit.

[Caller Rachel]

He did, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You argued with him a little bit, but eventually you're like, I mean, okay, well, I'm. I'm not honestly asking your. For your permission, and you don't have to like it, but this is what I'm doing. And then he was like, yeah, okay, I'll move in with you. Yeah, great. Well, that's a good sign. You know, it means he's. And the reason why I'm suggesting couples therapy because, like, I. I don't. I don't know, he's maybe just emotionally stunted somewhere. Maybe, like, I don't know. It's. It's not. I feel like it's safe to say it's not normal to have such a hard time communicating love and affection to someone you're willing to. That he clearly cares about you. You're clearly a big part of his life, you know.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And he's obviously struggling with that. So I Don't think you should come from a place of judgment. And when you say it, be careful with your words that he is. Somehow there's something wrong with him. But you can also at the same time say that like, it is not normal relationship behavior for us to have such a hard time communicating how we feel about each other. And I don't want to feel that confused. And, you know, I just, you know, I think that's a pretty reasonable request for someone in my position. And I also just want to know that you're willing to show up when we're. When, when one of us is feeling misaligned with the other.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I would agree. Like, kin's, like, really supportive, but I, I just feel like I'm always the one, like, initiating those conversations.

[Nick Viall]

That's fine if you're. I mean, listen, it's not ideal, but at least he needs to be the one to at least, you know, go along. You know, you know, you can be the one who always initiates, which I'm not. Again, not ideal, but as long as he's willing to recognize and be grateful that, like, I'm. I'm with someone who can recognize when we're disconnected. And I, you know, I probably could do a better job of recognizing it myself, but I do want to appreciate that she does that, and I don't want to take it for granted. And so I'm going to hear her out and, and, and, and look to do the things that she's asking us to do rather than be so resistant to them.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, that makes sense. I feel like. Yeah, I just need that star by having a conversation with him and not have those, like, side comments, I guess, that I've been.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, the side comments are definitely not productive. And, and it also, it, it almost in a way invalidates how you feel because you're turning it into, like, more of a you just want it because you want it thing, you know, Like.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I just feel I've been waiting, like, so long.

[Nick Viall]

Well, I know, I know again, but like, you. You are more than valid, though. Feel how you feel. But when the nagging and the little jabs, it's, you know, it's a childish type of behavior. And again, it just, it invalidates your, like, the fact that you have more than have. You have every right to feel others feel, but you're kind of. You're minimizing it into, like, just something that annoys you. And this is more than just something that annoys you. It's something that's very confusing. It's also just something that, like, this is not a great sign for. For building a relationship with someone. He shouldn't have such a difficult time.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I agree.

[Nick Viall]

Communicating how he feels with you. And if he does, that's okay, because sometimes we all have our limits. But, like, we should want to improve those things, and we should want to be with someone who can gently point out some of our shortcomings, and we can appreciate it to the point where, like, we. You know, people always say, I want to be with someone who makes me, you know, makes me a better version of myself. Come from a place of trying to help you guys connect more and help each other be a better version of ourselves without being judgmental or naggy about it.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, that makes sense to stop at

[Nick Viall]

the comments and just sit them down at some point and just say, you know, first of all, I'm sorry for the comments. I'm sure that's annoying.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I'm sure it is.

[Nick Viall]

But this does bother me. Yeah, it. It does bother me, though. And I don't want you to tell me that something you don't feel. But I'm. To be honest, I am operating like you do because it would be crazy to be in this relationship and have you not.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You know, just like me a lot. That being said, like, yeah, we have a hard time communicating, and I. I want us to get couples therapy so we can. So I want us to feel both. Feel more connected. And if he's like, well, I do feel connected. You'd be like, well, I don't feel connected to you, which means that we're not as connected as we can be. And I would love your help and your partnership and going to couples therapy together, because if we are actually serious about moving in together, if we're serious about a future together, this is like, some bare minimum. And I just need to know I'm with a guy who's willing to show up when I'm asking him to show up. And this is me asking you to show up.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I think that is a good start. Like, because I don't want him to just say, you know, I love you, like, one time. Like, I want to hear it every day.

[Nick Viall]

Like, you want to feel it.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, yeah, that too. Like, I do feel it. Like, but I. I don't hear him ever say it.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Caller Rachel]

And I think there's just a divide there.

[Nick Viall]

You know, there's a reason. Why do you. Have you asked him? Has he ever said it?

[Caller Rachel]

No, he's never said it.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, it's just, you know, Maybe it's just a mental hurdle. I don't know.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah. Because I feel like for me, like, I'm like, more like plateauing now. Like, I. Over these years, it's like, yeah, I don't feel like I can continue to, like, grow and love him when I don't feel it, like, being reciprocated.

[Nick Viall]

To me, it's less about the. What he's not saying to you and more about the fact that he clearly knows it's an issue. It's causing disconnect between the two of you. He hasn't demonstrated a willingness to do anything about it.

[Caller Rachel]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

And he is allowing you to deal with it while seeing it affect you and not care. And that is not something you should want to marry.

[Caller Rachel]

No. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Now he could, he could definitely change. He can evolve. He's relatively young, you know, But I wouldn't, I wouldn't make excuses for that behavior. I would take it seriously. I would acknowledge the fact that you have been together for four years. You're 27. Four years is plenty of time to get to know someone. And at four years, if he is not willing to do his part in this relationship, I would, I would consider leaving it.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah. Because, like, a good part of our relationship has been long distance. And I don't know if that's, like, played a big role for him, but I mean, we still see each other like every two, three weeks. Like, it's still pretty frequent, I would say.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, yeah. You guys are four hour. You're a four hour drive away.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, it's not that hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Listen, it's, it's definitely not the reason, but he's probably using it as the excuse. Who, you know, but my biggest point is you have the right to explore, ask questions, try to do something about it. None of which requires the nagging or the, like, the comments or the, the, you know, just the, the what you call our dental reminders. But he thinks of it as nagging.

[Caller Rachel]

You know, I would agree with that. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

It's just trying to communicate, you know, your expectations.

[Caller Rachel]

But. And like, when he does become, like, resistant, though, with like, the communication part is that when I should consider doing the couples therapy or just seeing how an initial conversation goes and then.

[Nick Viall]

Sure. I mean, listen, if you. I don't, it's. I'm. I would be surprised if you sit down and be like, listen, I don't want to. I'm sorry for nagging you. But, like, after four years, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, you know what? I do, I love you. And, and where it doesn't feel like, yeah, but if it does, sure, but I'm assuming it's not going to go that way. And again, like, this is clearly something he's struggling with. For whatever reason he's struggling with it. And you just want him to recognize that, you know, without him feeling judged, it's not your typical behavior, there's anything wrong with him. But like, listen, I want to be in a relationship because I want to feel loved. But like that's, I'm not looking for like a, an assistant.

[Caller Rachel]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

You know, I'm not even looking for like a friend. I'm looking for like that, you know, and I've been with you for four years and you're, you don't want to give that to me or you, or you say you can't give that to me. Either way, I'm not getting it.

[Caller Marie]

And,

[Nick Viall]

or we're at a pretty defining point in our career relationship. You know, you just have to try to be pragmatic about it in a way, which, I mean, a lot of guys are good at understanding pragmatism, you know, because the comments you're making isn't like more pragmatic, it's more like emotional based. It's more like, yeah, definitely, it's a reaction to something.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I'm definitely more reactive with it now for sure. I feel like in the past I haven't been, but just now it's just been like

[Nick Viall]

you probably didn't know what to do next. You know, it's like, how do I make someone say something they say they don't want to say? And I don't want to make someone say it anyways, but like, where do you go from here? You want to be patient, but again, what you have going for you is information. And the information is you've been together for four years. That's a long time. You're 27 years old. This is like, you know, a kind of a, you don't want to be wasting these years. And if you're a 27 year old single person, that's great, plenty of time. But it's not, it's not the, you know, what you don't want to be is spinning your wheels in a relationship. You have four years of information in and just coast and operate on their timeline. It should be a we timeline.

[Caller Rachel]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

You know, and I would, I would for you operate with some urgency about figuring out, you know, this is like a fork in the road pointing your relationship and it's you know, it's sometimes scary.

[Caller Rachel]

I feel like I have a year to figure it out.

[Nick Viall]

Why? Why are you giving yourself a year?

[Caller Rachel]

Not a year, but what do you need to, like. I mean, at that point is when I'll have graduated and we'll have to. Honestly, less than a year. Cause we'd have to, like, really, like, start looking for places.

[Nick Viall]

But I want you to focus on progress, you know?

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Because it's like, it's. Again, is he willing to show up when you ask him to show up? That's the thing. Because, like, the, you know, there's. There's gotta be something behind the why he doesn't say I love you.

[Caller Marie]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

I don't know. Who knows? Maybe his family never really said it. Maybe it's just like. I don't know. He's been right. He thinks it's a bigger mental hurdle than it needs to be, you know, but whatever. But more importantly, he needs to show up when you ask him to show up.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

He needs to listen to his partner and his partner saying, hey, I'm feeling less close to you, and I want to feel closer to you. And what. And I want to do that with you. And then his own. The only correct response is, okay, let's figure it out. I want to feel. I want you. I don't want you to feel that way towards me. You know? And it's not about being right. It's not about sides. It's not about, like, I. You know, I guess we need, you know, let's just. Let's get some help. And I want. I want to, you know, I want to. I want to do this together with you. If he's like, you know, I. I don't think we need that. And it's just like, I don't, you know, I don't think that, you know, we're not married yet. You know, all that is just like, kind of like you're like, I don't care about that. I just want to know you're going to show. I don't want to know you're willing to do your part in this relationship.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And I want to know. I want to know you can show up. And I don't want to wait till I'm married to find out someone's willing to work on our issues together. I'm not going to do that.

[Caller Rachel]

Right. Yeah, I would agree with that.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I guess all I'm saying, when you say six months, year, you should start making changes today. And by changes, I mean, like, change the way you have this conversation. I would bring up couples therapies sooner than later. I would get better at explaining why, what your expectations are of your future.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

The good news is he probably will come around. You know, it's just like. But you have to. You. You're gonna have to. You're gonna have to give him some tough love, and you're gonna have to know that you're making the right decision for yourself and him. Even if that means it might not go the way you want. But what you don't want is to fast forward 10 years and to be married this guy, and. And you're calling in and you're just like, you know, my husband, I have two kids. He doesn't help. We. I. I don't know idea how he feels about me. And he, you know, we just give. Giving up on each other.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I would agree. It was like. It'd be nice for him to, like, be able to communicate better. Not even just the I love you, but even just normal, like, you look nice today. Like, just simple things like that. But I don't really hear, like.

[Nick Viall]

And that's weird. That's weird that you've asked and he still doesn't do it. Yeah, I wouldn't call him weird, but I would. And you would just say, I. I want to be. I. I don't think it's too much to ask to, to want someone to say that and have to bet, you know, it's just like. And I don't know why you are so resistant, but I assume that you, you know, and you could ask him. Is. Is. Do you. Is. Do you know why? If he says, I don't know, you'd be like, great, that's totally okay. I don't. I don't know either. But that's why I want to explore some couples therapy, because I, you know. But do you, you know, like, most people just have, you know, they want to. They want to. They want to hear.

[Caller Rachel]

I know. I feel like normally it comes, like, so naturally, and it just feels like everything is, like, forced.

[Nick Viall]

But don't let them call you needy. Don't let them call you. Like, if he starts name calling and things like that huge red flag. Flag.

[Caller Rachel]

He doesn't do that. No.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, that's good. You know, I don't, you know, why are you being so needy? You're insecure, blah, blah, blah, you know, like, I don't. I'm good. Because if you. That would be a real good. Yeah, that's a good sign. But yeah, I would. I would Take this. This. I think this is something for you to do something about sooner than later. And, and, and hopefully it works out. And listen, if he's the right guy, it'll work out.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah. And I do think he will come around. Like, and I think progress, like you had mentioned is kind of like a big thing for me to see if there is any progress with him after having this conversation. I don't know. And, like, I wanted to get your perspective because I haven't told literally anybody that he hasn't said this to me because I just feel like it's so embarrassing at this point. Like, my friends, my family, they.

[Nick Viall]

Well, I know. I mean, you have every right to feel that way. I just wouldn't. I wouldn't lead with that.

[Caller Rachel]

No. Yeah, I won't do that.

[Nick Viall]

But, you know, this is about. I want to feel more connected to you, and I don't want to guess about how you feel with me. And everyone needs to, like, receive love from their partner, you know, and, and, And I have a hard time receiving love from you. And. And it's harder with the distance, but obviously I like to hear it. You never. You never tell me, even though. Forget about the love part, like, just.

[Caller Rachel]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

You never just communicate what you appreciate about this relationship. And I'm not. And I'm not saying I need, like, I don't need you to do that obsessively or every day. You just literally never.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And so I literally don't know.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And that's literally not okay.

[Caller Rachel]

Right. But, like, I know you had said, too, like, don't use, like, words like never and stuff like that.

[Nick Viall]

Like, well, if he's never done it right, then it's a very powerful thing. Don't do it when it's not true.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I mean, like, I'm sure he has, but they're not. Like, I can't remember the last time, I guess.

[Nick Viall]

There you go. And, I mean, that's a great way of saying it. I can't remember the last time. Yeah, it feels like never, but.

[Caller Rachel]

Right. Okay.

[Nick Viall]

I don't want to exaggerate. I don't even think I need to exaggerate because I literally can't remember.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah. Because he will call me out for things like that and be like, no, there was this time. And it's like, okay, but that was, like, years ago, you know?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And that's like, that's crazy. Say hello. Oh, yeah, you're right. Christmas of 23, I said you looked nice in that outfit, right?

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, exactly. Should wear it More often then apparently.

[Nick Viall]

You know, I don't want to feel like a needy girlfriend because my boyfriend has such a difficult time saying nice things to me or communicating any version of love. And I'm willing to be patient with you, but I'm not willing to just ignore it. And I'm not willing to not see if you're willing to show up for us. That's the biggest thing. What is he willing to do? He is willing to move for you. That's a good. That's a cool thing.

[Caller Rachel]

I appreciate what you said. I'm definitely going to go for that advice and see how it goes. I just hope he's receptive for. And I just. My expectations are low, so. Because.

[Nick Viall]

But listen, it might. It might be a bit of a process. Right. You know, you. You're expecting resistance. You'll probably get the resistance. He needs to know you're being serious about it. And you have to do in a way that doesn't sound like you're nagging.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And the good news is you have that kind of like the whole moving in conversation think, you know. Right. He knew you were serious.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

He knew that. Like, whether. It's like, I'm doing this anyway.

[Caller Rachel]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

There's so some kind of ultimatum, I guess, you know.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

If you're serious about the fact that, like, hey, it's just like, this is not about making you say I love you. This is the fact that you like, just.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, we.

[Nick Viall]

I don't. This is how I want to feel in a relationship and you don't make me feel this way. And I assume that you would. That would be hard for you to hear. You want. Right. I don't think I'm being crazy. I don't think I'm being too much. I'm sure it's hard to hear, but I, you know, and the more serious he takes you, the more likely he will eventually come around.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah. I would hope you would take it seriously because, like, I don't find it like, like an unserious conversation. Like, I feel like it is like a big deal and he should also.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, it's a. It's a big deal that he's. He knows it's bothering you and he doesn't care enough to do something about it.

[Caller Rachel]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

But he also might not have the tools or the. He might need a gentle push or a big push or a big push, but just do it in a way that's not side comments and encourages him to be stubborn.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

That's the thing. Like, you're Saying things that kind of encourage him to be stubborn, defiant, and you want to have a conversation with him that kind of encourages him to be less stubborn.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And if he's still willing to be stubborn after you were genuine, genuinely trying to just connect with him, then that's a big red flag that you're just maybe with a person who's been being stubborn and being right is more important to them than connecting with their partner.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I agree.

[Nick Viall]

And being empathetic to how they're feeling and how their actions make them feel.

[Caller Rachel]

I know, because it's like, if I didn't have these conversations with him, like, how long could he go without ever saying?

[Nick Viall]

Maybe forever. I mean, again, like, I think there's a big chance that, like, there's a lot of.

[Caller Marie]

Listen, there's a.

[Nick Viall]

Like, my dad literally never said I love you to his family. Didn't say I love you ever. You know, that just wasn't what they did.

[Caller Rachel]

I hear him, like, say it, like, with his family.

[Nick Viall]

That's crazy. Like, that's even crazier.

[Caller Rachel]

Right. So I'm just like.

[Nick Viall]

Anyways, this is all to say, like, you know, every family, every person has different rules on what that word means to them and things like that. But like doesn't mean those things can change. And you have a right to feel a certain way about it.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And more importantly, he should. He should care that you care. And it. It affects you and bothers you. And this is not. Like, you're. You're not bringing this up three weeks into your relationship.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah. Four years.

[Nick Viall]

Or in the first six months. It's been four years. He's moving in with you.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Like what? Like this. He doesn't get to keep playing house while being so stubborn about communicating words of affirmation.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I know. Because it's like, even if when I say it to him, it's just like, I don't even want to, like, say it anymore. I feel like. Because. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

No, it's weird. It's defeating.

[Caller Marie]

It's.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, it. And like, every time it's just like, oh, God, like, because you just get nothing back. Right. And it's like, okay. Silence.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. You gotta. You gotta change the trajectory of, I guess, the relationship in a way.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And just the. The more earnest you are, the more calm you are, the more matter of fact, the more like, just like, hey, it's just like, you know, the better it is. Try to take the emotions out of it in a way. I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's a lot. It's. This is less about getting your way.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And this is what you need to be in a relationship.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, it's definitely not getting my way at this point yet. He said, it's just what I like. I need it.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah.

[Caller Rachel]

Feel like any human being wants to feel loved by their partner.

[Caller Megan]

Yes.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Don't like again. There's something probably going on that's stopping him from doing it rather than he's just being stubborn. I don't know what that is or where it comes from. And he's probably a little stubborn too.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, he definitely is.

[Nick Viall]

You know, it's like what, you know, this is like some version of. You're gonna attract more bees with honey than vinegar and be a, be a, you know, give them some honey. You're, you're, you're sprinkling vinegar. Vinegar with your, your comments. So, yeah, when you speak to him, think of it in that context of like, you are. Be sweet, be caring, Try to connect, try to. But also be clear about what you need.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah. All right, I can do that.

[Nick Viall]

Keep us posted.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah, I will. I will. We'll just try to do it tonight. Maybe. We'll see. All right.

[Nick Viall]

All right. Godspeed.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah. All righty. Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

[Caller Marie]

Bye.

[Caller Megan]

Bye.

[Caller Rachel]

Bye.

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[Caller Marie]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Caller Megan]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Caller Marie]

Good.

[Caller Megan]

How are you?

[Nick Viall]

Good. What's your name?

[Caller Megan]

My Name's Megan. I'm 31 years old and I'm wondering how I can share my baby with my friends and family without feeling like my time's being robbed.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, tell me more.

[Caller Megan]

So I feel like maybe the root of why I'm like bitter about it is just that I have to work. Like having a baby. I feel like I really wanted to talk to you about this because I feel like you and Natalie, like raising a child is kind of my super bowl. And I'm disappointed that I can't be a stay at home mom. It just doesn't work out for us. We don't have any family that lives around us. So when they come visit, it's like when I'm off work and I don't really need help. You know, it's not like in the middle of the week when I'm like needing help with things. It's like when I'm completely free and that feels like my time to hang out with him.

[Nick Viall]

Well, have you communicated that?

[Caller Megan]

Yes, I have with my parents and they're pretty good about that. They've come a lot less than they were. They were coming almost every weekend. Every other weekend.

[Nick Viall]

So is it that you don't want them there or when they are there, you. You don't want them to be like, let me hold the baby, let me hold the baby, let me hold the baby kind of thing, I think. Or a little bit of both?

[Caller Megan]

I think it's a little bit of both. Because I think ever since I've had him, like, not one person has ever come to visit me. And then like, let me help you with something so you can enjoy your baby. It's just always been like, baby, baby, baby, let me have the baby.

[Nick Viall]

Is that something you guys can communicate?

[Caller Megan]

Probably. I feel like my wife and I are a little conflict diverse. So deal with that. I guess she's way worse than I am. Yes.

[Nick Viall]

Bummer.

[Caller Megan]

We need a brave one.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Well, you know, you can call me and I'll tell them.

[Caller Megan]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

Listen, it doesn't have to be a conflict. I think that's the biggest thing. I think people who are conflict averse make the mistake of is to assume that everything has to be a conflict. And a direct conversation isn't always a conflict. Also, I just think your story. I can relate to what you're going through. I think Natalie and I, overall, we're very grateful for our ability to try to do both. Obviously, Nally works with me not necessarily like a full, you know, she has some freedoms that maybe not everyone has, but nevertheless, like, I, I can relate to that desire she has right. To. To just be a mom and obviously grandma and everyone wants to hold the baby, but I think it's just like we're good at asking for help, you know, it's just like, I just really. We just need help. We just, you know, but the help we need is like, honestly, like it would. I would be so grateful because like, I, you know, I gotta work Monday through Friday. But like when you're, you know, to just. It's. I think there's such a balance between like, I have a baby, go to the grocery store with me. Like, it would be. Could you. It would be so helpful if you could do this for me now. If they, you know, like, you know, if they start be like, no, it's not my job, you know, I don't know. Do you feel like you have people in your family that would respond that way where that if you like gently asked for help that they would somehow be unwilling or be like, I'm not here to help, I'm just here to hold the baby.

[Caller Megan]

Definitely not my side of the family. It's really hard for me to present anything to my in laws. I guess we just don't have a great communication. I mean, even when they're here and if they're Doing something that I don't love. If I say, hey, like, don't love that, it just changes the whole vibe of the whole weekend interaction.

[Nick Viall]

Give me an example of when you're saying, I don't love that.

[Caller Megan]

So I'm an operating room nurse, so I'm a little bit of a germaphobe. He. And this is my first kid, so I'm aware that I'm a little crazy, but, like, he'll drop a binky. I mean, this was when he was first born. I guess he's eight months now. But they just thought I was so silly for wanting to, like, wash a binky every time. And I'm like, I don't. My shoes look like bottom of them. And I just kind of assume everyone else's shoes look like them. They go in public restrooms. I just, like, do this whole spiral germaphobe thing, and they just get real huffy, puffy about it. And I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

So which one is it? Which one is it more of, is it the binky falls out and they don't do what you would do when they're around and not wash the binky and you get upset? Or is it them teasing you about how neurotic you are about the binky? Which, by the way, I. I don't think you're neurotic. I think we would wash the binky.

[Caller Marie]

Right.

[Caller Megan]

I can take the teasing. That doesn't bother me. It's more just to go a little further past that. Like, they want me to leave him with them, and I've never left them with him. And I'm just like, I don't trust that what I want to happen while I'm gone is gonna happen with you watching him.

[Nick Viall]

I just want you to remember, no matter how conflict averse you are or aren't, this is your kid. It's your kid.

[Caller Megan]

Right?

[Nick Viall]

No one can tell you, you know, and as long as you are a good parent, and I'm assuming you are, and there's obviously everyone has different thoughts, feelings on best practices. It's your kid, it's your blood. You and your wife get to raise this child how you see fit, and no one, including any, your parents, get to have to say otherwise. It's just a matter of being very matter of fact. And it's not negotiating with people that don't have the right to negotiate with you. And so you can just gently, without. Without trying to be, you know, angry or aggressive about it. Just be like, hey, listen. Like, you know, listen, I. We need the help and I would love for you, you know, but, like, I just, you know, if you're gonna do that, we want to feel comfortable that you're going to do what we want. And it's not like, you know, it's like, it's that simple. Natalie's mom has been extraordinarily helpful for us. Now that river gets old, we. We only want river to, like. Right now, river only watches old Disney movies. Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Bambi. It's just like, it's.

[Caller Rachel]

Yep.

[Nick Viall]

It's old school. It's fine. It's just. And her mom put on some other show. My mom did the same thing recently, too. Wasn't a big deal. It wasn't like, oh, my God. It was like, hey, we just. We're not. But we don't have her watch that, you know, so if she wants a lot, something else, can you just put on that show? You know?

[Caller Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And the only, like, reasonable response from either, you know, is to be like, oh, okay, no problem. Sure. Thanks for letting me know. If next time that were to happen again, then would be a slightly, like, maybe I wouldn't feel uncomfortable because it's like, this is my kid. And, like, you just have to. You just have to like you. The minimum respect is just to respect how I want to raise my kid, you know, And I know I'm saying this, that it kind of comes easy for me and not with other people.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

But it's just like, I just have, you know, when I'm saying that, when I am saying this and when I communicate that Natalie's the same way, it's just like. It's just, this isn't even complicated. This is my kid, you know, and it's just, you know, we just want you guys to respect, you know, the choices we're making. And that doesn't mean grandparents and your parents. I'm sure your parents and her parents have wisdom they can share, and you should be open to receiving that wisdom, you know, and like. And. And I would say the help to help with that relationship is to be open to hearing their wisdom, knowing that you don't have to take everything, you know, and there's that balance and be like, yeah, we don't. You know, but that's some really good advice. Thanks for think, you know, thank them for advice they give from time to time. Time. And you can thank them for advice without making them feel like you, you know, they're like a mentor in a way that you always have to take all their advice. If. If you feel like the vibe is shifting. You're part of that vibe, if. If that makes any sense.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah. Well, I was gonna ask. I'm like, I think it maybe wouldn't go smooth in the beginning, but maybe just with consistency of just stating those facts. This is my kid. This is how I do it.

[Nick Viall]

The thing is, like, when I do that, I do that as if, like, this is. I'm not. I don't. I'm not weird about it. I'm just more like, oh, yeah, for sure. Like, just, oh, by the way, you wouldn't know that because it's not your kid, but, like.

[Caller Megan]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

I don't make it weird. I don't feel uncomfortable simply just saying what I want for my child.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

As long as Natalie and I are on the same page, that's all that matters. And that's the thing, is I just hope you and your wife are very connected with what you guys want for your son. And that just goes a long way knowing that. Like.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And again, just be clear. Like, daddy's mom's great, you know, but, like, she's not. In every conversation that we have, she's like. And we don't sit there and give her a tutorial, but, like, when we. When we are. We are aligned. And therefore, it's easy for us to communicate with my parents or her parents or anyone, you know, what we want. And it's, you know, just like, yeah, just. Just do what we want. And that way it's kind of communicated where it's less of like, well, you. If you can't do this, we won't do that. But. But, you know, there's. It's. It's just kind of gently being like, obviously, we'd want you to watch. Now, granted, you're. You know, I'm sure that's going to be a hurdle for you. You know, like, it's never.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah, for sure.

[Nick Viall]

Easy. But try doing it for, like, a couple hours. Is that part of why they're not being helpful? Like, if they're coming to visit over the weekend, are you not asking them to, say, run an errand for you because you don't want to leave them home with your son? Like, have you ever, like, left him for an hour with somebody?

[Caller Marie]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller Megan]

And he. I'll leave him with my parents. Like, last weekend, we went to brunch together, my wife and I, and left him with my parents.

[Nick Viall]

Would you leave. Would you do that with her parents?

[Caller Megan]

It's hard for me.

[Nick Viall]

Is that. Is that a you decision, or is that A we decision.

[Caller Megan]

I think she would leave him with them. I could ask her that. I think she would be like, yeah, there's roots there with me and her parents. We go to therapy. Her and I both go to therapy individually and together.

[Nick Viall]

What's going on with her parents?

[Caller Megan]

Her parents raised her Catholic K through 12, like private Catholic school. So yeah, when she married me at the Horny Toad at the Lake of the Ozarks, that was kind of disappointing for them, I think.

[Nick Viall]

Wait, you were the Horny Toad?

[Caller Megan]

No, it was. It's a bar and restaurant at the Lake of the Ozarks. And that is where we got married.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

And they were. So she married. So like, not again.

[Caller Megan]

At the Horny Toad.

[Nick Viall]

Gotcha. Gotcha. Is that something they definitely care about or something that you assume they feel a certain way about? Like how, how.

[Caller Megan]

Oh, no, in the beginning there was some pretty direct ways that they. Like I went to a wedding that she was in, it was a Catholic mass, and I sat with them at the wedding and we did the peace be with you thing and went for her dad and her dad looked right at me, turned, didn't do it. And I mean, that's just one example. There were several very similar to that.

[Nick Viall]

When her parents come to visit you, does he acknowledge your existence?

[Caller Megan]

Yes, he's much better now.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, so he's much better now, but

[Caller Megan]

they never acknowledged that, I guess. And that is what bothers me, I guess. And I guess that's what the roots are.

[Nick Viall]

I'm in no position to tell you how to feel about bigotry or small minded people when it comes to you being a gay woman.

[Caller Rachel]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

That being said, I just like, listen, life in general, you know, I can't late. I can't relate to your individual experience, but I can, you know, and that's the thing is, you know, this whole show, this whole podcast is about like, I may not be a woman, I'm not gay, but like, I. A lot of these things I talk about, I've related on the. Of the feeling, you know, and I know it's like to be judged by people. I know what it's like to to not be, you know, feel welcomed by the person I'm dating's parents and. And at the end of the day, like whatever that feeling comes from, it's, you know, that feeling is that feeling and how we handle that feeling is the thing that. Where I get my lived experience. So this is all to say I'm not trying to minimize your experience and I'm sure that Must hurt. But I, you know, focusing on. On the progress rather than, you know, is just more beneficial. You. You do have a child with these people's daughter. And I don't know, like, you know, I. My, you know, I grew up very Catholic. You know, I, you know, you. If you would have, you know, high school me, would have thought that my parents would disown all their kids if. Or certainly not recognize their marriage if they didn't get married by a Catholic priest. None of their kids have been married by a Catholic priest. I have three siblings that are a part of the LGBTQI community, and my parents, like, it's been a. You know, they have evolved and adapted, you know, and I honestly don't know if. If any of my siblings have a story or a version or people they've dated have a story or version where they felt like maybe, you know, I don't know. They didn't, you know, my parents didn't say or do something. Right. I'm not sure how, like, when you go to therapy with your partner, like, how much are you still religating, Relitigating things that have happened and then and feeling a certain way because they. They haven't come correct to your standards versus focusing on just, like, how they show up today versus how they showed up, you know, in the past, if that makes sense.

[Caller Megan]

I don't think we're really relitigating it. I almost just feel like I'm taking that feeling that you're talking about and just saying, like, this is a fact and this is. Is how I am, and this is how we are, and this is how our relationship is. Is. I'm just not around then. And before we had a kid, it wasn't really an issue. Our therapist wants us to, like, have this conversation with them, but they're. They're a little older.

[Nick Viall]

What's the conversation your therapist wants to have with them?

[Caller Megan]

He suggests that we should, like, just expose the roots and see how they, like, not aggressively or anything, but just say, like, hey, this is how I feel and this bothers me, and then give them the opportunity to just, like, apologize, I guess. But that conversation almost seems really awkward.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Is there any version of that story where if you said, hey, you remember that time I went to that Catholic mass and you didn't acknowledge me, that his response would be like, I don't know what you're talking about, or, I don't remember doing that, or something like that?

[Caller Megan]

Yeah, I could see that for sure.

[Nick Viall]

Or do you. Would you believe it?

[Caller Megan]

No.

[Nick Viall]

Why Not. You don't think it's possible?

[Caller Megan]

I mean, he looked me right in the eye. We were right next to each other. I don't think that's possible.

[Nick Viall]

Like, okay, fair. How long ago? How long ago is that? How. How much into your relationship was that?

[Caller Megan]

That was probably a year in. And We've been together 11 years now.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. You say you're holding on. There's a ten year. Okay.

[Caller Marie]

Yep.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, maybe, maybe, maybe you let that shit go.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Has there been progress?

[Caller Megan]

Conversation doesn't feel even authentic to me. Like, when my therapist suggests that that's what we should do.

[Nick Viall]

It's just like, more importantly, I guess, for me, like, how do you. How are they showing up now?

[Caller Megan]

They are very excited about him. They think he's great.

[Nick Viall]

How do you feel they show up for you too?

[Caller Megan]

That's maybe the issue. I guess it's more like they come to play with my shiny toy that I made for him. Like, that's. I guess, how I feel.

[Nick Viall]

Are you telling yourself that? Like, do you still feel rejected by them?

[Caller Megan]

Like, well, when I was pregnant, I was really so depressed. Only thing that made me happy was food. I gained like 80 pounds and I was like, sick. Just things didn't sound good. They'd want to go to eat at this one place, and I would be like, no, I don't want to do that. And it just was like, we'd end up there. It was, I don't know, just. Just little examples like that, I guess, where it's just like, I'm saying, I'm not gonna eat that. Like, but we're still ending up here. Like, well, they have a turkey sandwich. You can eat here. I'm like, I do hold a grip. I'm not really great with these people. I think this is an accurate call out right now.

[Nick Viall]

But listen, they might just be, like, difficult people who aren't very considerate, you know, and they're not like, best in laws. And I don't know, it's like, honestly, like, if you came to visit me and I was like, I want to go to dinner here. And someone was like, yeah, but I don't really. Like, there would be a part of me that would be like, well, they

[Caller Megan]

have a turkey sandwich, you know, even if I'm pregnant.

[Nick Viall]

And I'm like, no, I mean, listen, I. I would be quick by my wife or something. Listen, I'm just saying there's a.

[Caller Marie]

The.

[Caller Rachel]

The.

[Nick Viall]

The inconsiderate version of me is capable of doing that. And as I've gotten older, More empathetic. And I'm more willing to be reminded when I'm being selfish or whatever and quick to be like, yo, that was crazy. There are a lot of things that I'm set in my ways and. And I just am. I am who I am. And I would just be careful for the sake of your relationship and your child and their, you know, grandparents that like, clearly that thing happened and it was hurtful 10 years ago. You didn't forget about it. It sat with you for over a decade. But I would just be careful not to confuse a old stubborn man in his hometown with having more to do with you than the fact that he wants to go to his place.

[Caller Megan]

I guess this is just another excuse I would give. And I'm wondering if you like for them watching him, the mom, they're older than my parents, like a solid 10 years older and just not as in great health, I guess. So like, I mean our house, the living room's down there. I'm in his room right now. You gotta walk upstairs to get to his room and change him here. And just watching the mom walk up the stairs without him in her arms. And he's a 19 pound boy now. And I just like, you want me to leave?

[Nick Viall]

I guess it's just a matter of. Is this like.

[Caller Megan]

I think she could get her ass up here with him, but I just, I wouldn't want to see it.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. You just gotta ask yourself if am I looking for reasons to have a reason to not feel comfortable or. Or is he, you know. Yeah. We had a wonderful person we knew was helpful with River. She is older and when river got to a certain age, we asked her less because of, you know, it was easy for her to come over and read a book while river was already in bed. You clearly have something that you've held

[Caller Megan]

onto a grudge for sure.

[Nick Viall]

I just wonder if you could just let it go. You could choose to let it go again. I don't want to tell you how to feel and I can't. I don't want to overstep. But like, I'm just saying.

[Caller Megan]

No, you're not.

[Nick Viall]

There's some version of you telling yourself, listen, that pissed me off, it hurt my feelings and I hope that my in laws don't judge me. But like it seems, it sounds like they love their daughter and she's gay and she married a woman and you know, I don't know, maybe it wasn't what they would have chose for their daughter, but they've learned to accept it, get around I don't know, evolve a little bit maybe. I don't know. Certainly, I'm sure you've heard and have friends who have more horrific stories when it comes to their relationships with their parents in the gay community. And so maybe the version you tell yourself is like, listen, you know what? I. That pisses me off. I'm not. But, like, all things considered, could be worse. They're not the worst people. They annoy the out of me sometimes. But, like, I love my wife, they love their daughter, they love our child. And let me just look for ways to, like, not let things bother me. Because right now you've acknowledged, and the theme is you find a way to let them get under your skin and you kind of look for it a little bit. And I think just that alone could just help your mental health or your relationship. That doesn't mean you have to roll over and concede every time. It is your child. And at the end of the day, you have the power to say yes or no. And I think knowing that you have that power about something they want, which is access to your grandchild, hopefully that makes you just that. I think that maybe can, if nothing else, make it make it easier for you to swallow, you know, like to swallow your pride, look the other. Whatever you want to call it, because, like, it is your choice, because you are in control. And that sometimes makes it easier for you can kind of almost convince yourself that it's happening because you're allowing it to happen. And you know it's not. You're not being told what to do or what you have to do because, like, you know, I imagine, you know, when you. When you first met your wife and then she introduced you to her parents and things like that, like, there. That there's a control or a power, more importantly, a power dynamic that the parents have. You want their approval, you want to be approved. You want to be welcomed by the. The parents of the person you love. And whether you get, you know, you. But now they want your approval, they need your approval. They want your grandson's approval, you know, and I don't think you should. I don't think you should retaliate. I don't think you should hold it over their head. But hopefully you can feel a little bit more in control of this relationship than you had in the past. And you can almost tell yourself, listen, for a couple old Catholics, they're not perfect, but they could be worse. Listen, I'm really proud of my parents for evolving the way that they have. You know, I haven't I haven't, you know, and again, I guess I, I have less of a reason too. But I haven't checked in, gone down a list of all the, you know, progressive ideologies of like, well, do you believe this? And do you believe that? Do you still believe this? Do you still, you know, like, I don't know, you know, we're all imperfect people. But I, what I do appreciate my parents is what they have prioritized above all else is their family and their kids happiness. And when they don't have to agree about every decision they make, they just have to like, continue to show them love. And they've evolved in a really beautiful way. And I think the evolution of these people is more important than what happened 11 years ago.

[Caller Megan]

I think that's a fair assessment and

[Nick Viall]

it might, and I may be asking too much to ask an old man and a woman just be like, do you remember that 11 years ago when you did that shit to me? Like, I promise you remember it way more than they did, 100%. Maybe it was a little bit of ignorance and a little bit of bigotry. Maybe it was a little bit of like in his head about who his daughter was dating and in his community, at his church and doesn't make it okay that he did that, but it, it makes it less of a. He was trying to say fuck you to you and he was this kind of self conscious and had. And in that brief moment did a thing that really affected you, that, you know, it's just not, not. It probably did not register at that level. It registered for you.

[Caller Megan]

You're a million percent right.

[Nick Viall]

And then you just have to ask yourself at this stage of the game, who, like holding on to it, who is it? How much is it helping you or guarding you or how much is it protecting you? Do you need to protect yourself from these people?

[Caller Megan]

No, I think the only thing is I don't want my son to feel like our relationship, his parents, is anything but normal.

[Nick Viall]

You and your wife will figure out how you're gonna raise your child and you're their parents and you have a, you are in full control of that. And they will, of course this is their normal. You're their parents. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're their normal, right? You don't have to explain normal to them. What normal is to them is what they experience every day. And they experience you too, as his loving parents.

[Caller Megan]

Turns I'm a Vile Files plus Girl. I'm subscribed to the sub stack. I Have the merch. I want you to give it to me right now. But, like, one thing as you're talking, I'm thinking your energy. Think of it like currency. It's not infinite. So I like how you just looked at me and said, could you let it go?

[Nick Viall]

It's hard to do, and it's easy to waste your energy on things that you realize don't ultimately matter. We've gotten into a rabbit hole of assuming the worst in everyone, and I think life's just a lot better when you assume. When you. When you do the opposite, it's just a little bit more enjoyable. And, I mean, we have better relationships with people, and we. We assume the positive.

[Caller Megan]

I am gonna try and let it go because I. This takes a lot of energy for me, and it. I mean, it does cause a lot of conflict between. Not conflict, but we do a lot of therapy for this.

[Nick Viall]

Does it get you anywhere?

[Caller Megan]

Well, the therapist wants us to have a conversation with them. And I'm just like. About what this conversation sounds like. Well, saying, like, these things that you did bothered me and give them an opportunity to either respond in a good way or not.

[Nick Viall]

What is your therapist hoping the outcome is? Or what are they expecting these people to do?

[Caller Megan]

I guess just be aware and then come more correct towards me, like, in the future.

[Nick Viall]

And I guess that would bring up the question of, like, are they. Do you feel like overall, they're not coming correct towards you in these lately?

[Caller Megan]

No, they're not.

[Nick Viall]

You don't think they are?

[Caller Megan]

The dad. Honestly, the dad is million times like, I. When I was pregnant, I felt like he respected me. He was like he cared about me being okay. And. Whereas the mom was just like, well, the family picnic. And I really want you to come to the family picnic. And it's 105 degrees outside, and I know you're tired, but, like. And the dad was just like, go home, lay down.

[Nick Viall]

And. And how did you read that situation?

[Caller Megan]

Just that the mom wants my shiny toy, but doesn't actually give a. About me. Like, wants to show off. Look, I'm having a grandkid, but this person. You. I've never given a. About her before to me.

[Nick Viall]

That's assuming. That's an example of assuming the worst. She could just be.

[Caller Megan]

I could see that.

[Nick Viall]

Like a stubborn, excited. I don't know. Or. Yeah. Or just honest, you know, like, she was just being kind of honest of what she was hoping to. She wanted you there, and she was just. Just guilting you a little bit. Just the same, like, a lot of mother in laws do regardless she does. Regardless of your sexuality. You know, like there's, you know, I

[Caller Megan]

mean all of it.

[Nick Viall]

The good thing is the good news you have going for you. Even the straight ones have complicated relationships

[Caller Megan]

with her for sure grandma quota. And it's just exhausting to me. Like, just like, well, I have to see him this amount of times I feel like. And I have to come up. There's all these things that I want to do and boxes I want to check of activities I want to do. And I'm just like, I don't know when we're doing that. Before we had him, we weren't seeing you this much. And now I'm just like so selfish with my time. I'm just like, I feel like I work so much and then I have my off time.

[Nick Viall]

And you, you should be selfish with your time with your child. You have every right to. You should never feel like you have to apologize. And I don't even feel like that's really the issue here. I feel like these are a couple people who in the past have had moments of hurting your feelings. You have felt judged by them, you have felt excluded by them in some cases probably accurately so. And that's fair to feel that way. But there's the flip side of that, is that these people have been in your life for a decade. You did marry their daughter and overall it sounds like you have a fairly decent relationship with these people. That doesn't mean they don't annoy you or do everything you want. But you have acknowledged that you have held on to a moment for 10 years and that has played a huge role in how you read every interaction with him and let me know if I'm wrong by any of this.

[Caller Megan]

No, I see what you're saying.

[Nick Viall]

It's clicking better and that then it's hard not to get activated or frustrated or hurt. You know, sometimes, you know, like when something I'm really grateful that Natalie and I do with each other is, you know, like, you know, we all can get frustrated with our own parents. We're very lucky. We both feel lucky to have the in laws that we have. There are times where Natalia might get frustrated with her mom or I might get frustrated with my parents. It's easy for me to try to be like, yeah, but maybe she means this or maybe she doesn't mean that, you know, and we try to gently help each other see the best in our parents intentions when we're frustrated. And I don't know, I just find that really helpful. And even if you're wrong, it's just again, it's like, do you want to be right? Do you want to be happy? It's just like I've been thinking that

[Caller Megan]

too this whole time, you know, so. But I don't want to be right. I'm exhausted.

[Nick Viall]

When you say it out loud, right, that one situation, you know, your mother in law wanting you to go to a picnic but you wanted to stay home and then she made you feel guilty about it and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That sounds like a very normal, like generally like kind of relatable story that you might hear from someone's in law and, and, and to whatever degree you feel like that's coming from a place of judgment because you're gay and she married you married her wife because of that handshake is, you know, probably takes a ton of energy that you probably don't need to invest because she could, that could just be. It could. It probably has nothing to do with that.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah, she's just stubborn and just wants to show.

[Caller Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Her.

[Caller Marie]

I think she's excited.

[Nick Viall]

Not exclusive to who she, who she doesn't approve of their lifestyle choices.

[Caller Megan]

They're coming not this weekend, but next weekend so I can try and just let it go and see how it goes. That sounds freeing. It sounds nice.

[Nick Viall]

Tell yours. I'm gonna see that. I'm, I'm. I would. It's a, again, it's literally an exercise when something happens that annoys you. You could literally pause and be like, if I need to. If I, if I have to think of a reason why they are doing or saying this that has nothing to do with my instinctual feeling or just trying to empathize with why they feel that way. I'm going to assume they have the best intentions and just see how easy it is to, to do that. And if it's easy, then it, and then there's a good chance that might be the, you know, it's just like, okay, maybe it's just this, maybe it's just

[Caller Marie]

that.

[Caller Megan]

Yeah. Okay. I think this is good advice. I need this. My wife's gonna love this.

[Caller Rachel]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

And I imagine that's the thing. I imagine your wife, you know, who also is a gay woman, doesn't want to feel judged or shamed. And it sounds like she has a pretty decent relationship with her parents in that, you know, and let, let your wife be the best barometer of the progress her parents are making. So that way whatever, whatever issues you have with them, you can just chalk it up to good old fashioned like in law stuff.

[Caller Megan]

You're right. And that's it is what it is a long time. 10 years long time. So yeah.

[Nick Viall]

All right.

[Caller Megan]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

Hopefully.

[Caller Marie]

Thank you.

[Caller Megan]

I really appreciate you.

[Nick Viall]

Congratulations. Congratulations to you and your wife on motherhood. Such an awesome, awesome thing. And you never have to apologize for wanting to like be close to the child and just get good at asking for help. Help and just be gracious when you ask for help. Hey, it would really is there any way you could do this for me? It'd be so helpful.

[Caller Marie]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

People like to help.

[Caller Megan]

Thank you.

[Nick Viall]

All right. Take care.

[Caller Megan]

Tell, tell Natalie get my best sending good vibes her way.

[Caller Rachel]

All right.

[Nick Viall]

Thanks so much. All right, take care. Bye bye. Pros Save more on what you need to get the job done right Right now at Lowe's. Get 15% off select custom entry and interior doors. Plus save $80 on the Dewalt 20 volt max 2 tool combo kit. Now just $169. And at the Lowe's Pro desk, bring us your materials list and get a quote in minutes Handwritten, a photo or even a sticky note is all you need. Keep your jobs moving faster and on budget at Lowe's. Valid through 78 while supplies last. Selection varies by location. High interest debt can be a real vibe killer. Credit cards, personal loans and more can make you feel uncomfortable even in the sanctuary of your own home. Well, what if you knew that SoFi can help you leverage your home's equity to feel more at ease? It's called a SOFI Home Equity Loan and it could consolidate your debt at a typically lower interest rate than existing debt with lower monthly payments and all while keeping your existing existing mortgage rate. View your [e-mail] payoff debt today mortgages originated by SOFI bank and a member FDIC NMLS number 696891. Terms Acquisitions apply. Equal Housing Lender.