← The Viall Files
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- [00:00]
Ad Host
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- [00:40]
Nick Viall
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- [01:09]
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- [01:18]
Nick Viall
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- [01:59]
Nick Viall
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- [02:07]
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- [02:15]
Sierra Miller
You're crazy.
- [02:27]
Nick Viall
What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files. Reality recap. Reality recap. Reality recap edition. I'm your host, Nick. I'm extremely activated. I have. I spent all weekend just. My wife's not here. She's. She's nesting. Sierra is here. We have Susie. Justin's in the room. We also have, you know, it's a full room. Also, Natalie spent all weekend hearing what I'm about to say.
- [02:55]
Dan
Oh, I can't wait.
- [02:56]
Nick Viall
So she's got all the versions of it, but I had the wildest weekend and I feel like I'm being gaslit by the Internet and I don't know what's going on in Bachelor Nation. I think there's, like, currently the biggest scandal in reality TV is going on before our very eyes. And even I don't know if no one cares or they don't understand the context. I feel like I'm losing my goddamn mind.
- [03:18]
Kada
No, I'm like, what is going on? What's going on?
- [03:22]
Nick Viall
So there is a book that is about to be released on, I think, July 7th. It's called the Love Producer. It is written by a former Bachelor producer. I don't know entirely what's in the book. Her name is Julie Laplaca. I know her a little bit. She started on. She actually, I think she got her start on Andy's season, which was my first season. I didn't interact with her that much. I don't know. A little bit. I do know about her. Nice. But she wrote a book about apparently this relationship she had with Peter Weber.
- [03:53]
Sierra Miller
Pilot Pete.
- [03:54]
Nick Viall
Pilot Pete. When he was the Bachelor.
- [03:56]
Kada
What? And during the season.
- [03:58]
Nick Viall
I think so. I don't. There's only degrees. Like, there's only degrees of wrong.
- [04:02]
Sierra Miller
Yeah. Isn't that fucked up?
- [04:04]
Nick Viall
So anyways, but what I'm so shocked about is that, like, first of all, I heard about this a couple months ago because she reached out both to our team and to me directly. Now, I didn't pay much attention to it because I honestly, without knowing much about the story, like, already thought it was, like, gross like that. That a Bachelor producer who, like, again, like, there's so much nuance when it comes to. We talk so much about the. About it on the show, about this relationship between reality TV star and producer, and it is incredibly nuanced, as you know. Susie. Right. It's. It's a trade off, but for. For a Bachelor producer to whatever the relationship was. And I didn't know much about it. I didn't think it was much to. To exploit that experience and to write a book about. I thought was gross. Right? But I also just didn't. I didn't. I didn't pay much attention. I know the context of the story. I went out to dinner. Natalie and I went out to dinner with one of my good friends, also one of the. A former executive producer on the Bachelor franchise. And they were just like, have you, like, did you hear about this book? And I'm like, yeah, well, tell me about it. I didn't really know about it. And they told me about this relationship, and they gave me some tea about, like, what actually, like, happened, and I was just like, what the fuck is going on? And then I found out that some of my peers in Bachelor Nation are having her on, like, their podcasts and talking about it. And again, I'm not. I'm not sending smoke their way because. And I'll. I'll get. I'll explain why that I actually, like, just have a lot of grace and empathy for, like, again, all of us bachelor people who, like, you know, listen, we have a lot of pros and cons and things that go on Bachelor Nation, but, like, I feel like I'm the only one who knows the truth. I feel like I'm the whistleblower. I don't know, because it makes no sense to me that, like, basically everyone's embracing this book is like a. Like, oh, my God, T, what's the truth?
- [05:46]
Susie
Well, set this story for us.
- [05:47]
Nick Viall
Okay, so here's the thing that people really. I don't. Here's the thing that I think maybe I know that, you know, or maybe I'm just. Maybe I'm just, like, detached from reality. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe no one will care about this. I don't know. But I think what people don't understand what's going on here is one, just the overall relationship. As we talk a lot about. About relationship, reality TV star and producer. But not every producer is the same as, you know, Susie, There is a big difference between an executive producer and, let's say a field producer or a date producer.
- [06:19]
Kada
Storyline producer.
- [06:20]
Nick Viall
A storyline producer or the lead. The Bachelor or the Bachelorette. Their main producer. Now, this person, Julia, was Peter's main producer. Now, let me explain this relationship. Now. This person is their fucking shadow. This person is their lifeline. This person is their therapist. This person is with the lead for at least six months pre production during Production, post production, while they're producing the show, this person literally has their passport, their id, their phone. This is the person who, like, is letting their family know when they land in a different country to make sure they're okay. They're the ones who have intimate conversations with Peter and his family, being like, they're like, take care of our child. And they're like, I promise I'll take care of your child. Like, this person literally is their whole universe. They're the one doing every single interview with the lead to, like, keep them opened up to relationships and keep exploring their thoughts and feelings. The immense power that this person has over the lead is like, I can't even articulate how, like, how much it is now. Just in general, like, I think a lot of people are fascinated with the relationship between producer and reality TV star. I was talking to some executives. I talked a lot over the weekend. But even when the Taylor, Frankie, Paul stuff came out and we were talking about. And we were talking about how the importance of, like, protecting reality TV stars, and that's so fascinating about this world that we all live in, right? Like, that we all talk about. And you're seeing it a little bit on Love Island. By the way, we have Sean from Love island on the episode today. We have a great conversation with him. And there's so much Love island stuff to get into. He was cool. He was really great. But, like, the best way to describe, like, this kind of contract, this unofficial contract that reality TV star and reality TV producer has, which is basically, like, the best analogy. I don't know. There's a couple analogies I came up with, but I've been sticking with the whitewater rafting one, which is basically if, you know, if you go whitewater rafting, you go take a vacation, you sign up for an excursion, you go to Colorado. This is something you would never do on your own because you don't know this world, right? It's literally dangerous. And the tour guide's like, listen, I'm going to promise you, like, this really intense experiment, experience. It's going to be incredibly scary. I'm going to, like, you know, but we'll. When we're all done, you're going to make it through safe, right? Like, that's the relationship. And there's this understanding that you are going into their world or even a better one. More on the nose. Is the therapist. Like, it would be like if your therapist's job was to lie to you, and you kind of knew that, but they were also person that you would get advice from and support and emotional support. But like, you know, but you really trusted them because you don't really know this. This world, right? So you give them all your trust. In a universe where you have no support system, you don't have the ability to reach out to your family. You literally don't know what's going on in the real world. It is that person's job to let them know what's going on in the real world if it's relevant. And their job is to drip information with when it has the biggest impact, not tell em information when they should know, to tell em information when they're gonna get the biggest emotional reaction. And again, when we talk about these shows, I'm not saying this to like finally expose the Bachelor producers because again, there's this like, you know, we get a lot from this experience, right? Like most of us all end up okay, you know what I'm saying? Like, even Ari, who. And I was shocked because apparently he commented, I can't wait to read it. But. And I give a lot of my peers grace. Cause I think we're all dealing with this trauma in our own way. And honestly, I have no idea if the former leads know what I know. I think we all know various versions of how. Like how you know just how much bullshit and how much producing. Producing and all the lies that were told to us. And we all kind of process a different way. I mean, you look at Ari, for example, right? This is a man who at one point was the most hated man in America. But like, even then, even the producers who were like, yo, you're going to be okay. He is okay. He's like, he met his wife, he's got a beautiful family. He seems like he's living his best life. He's still. It seems like he's monetizing the experience. He's doing just fine. Even that, that's. That's bring that up example because that is the producers pushing it to the absolute max. What you don't get to do is seduce these people. You don't get to like, I don't know. I don't know what she exposes, but she wrote this book. And it's like, this is not. This is. This is her. I did it.
- [10:55]
Sierra Miller
If I did it.
- [10:56]
Nick Viall
Her, like the OJ thing, she's telling on herself.
- [11:00]
Dan
Is there not HR or like.
- [11:02]
Nick Viall
So here's what's so fast. And I want. I want to be clear. I'm only speaking on this because I got Peter's permission. I called him Up.
- [11:08]
Dan
Oh, my God.
- [11:09]
Nick Viall
Because I was just like, floored. I was like, I can't, I like, what is going on here? I can't believe. How is this happening? He, he answers. He's in Bangkok. He's a pilot.
- [11:18]
Kada
I saw his real. Yeah, he's in Asia right now.
- [11:21]
Nick Viall
It was one of those weird conversations. And I don't want to say too much because I'm just, I just wanted to acknowledge that, like, I'm only speaking this because I, I have his. And you know, you know, those conversations, you're like, this might ruin his day. I don't, I don't, I don't know how he's processes. I don't know where. I hadn't spoken to him about this. So I try to get out as fast as possible. And I was like, listen, I just heard about this. I'm finding this out in real time. I am shocked about what I'm hearing. I don't know how this has affected you. I don't even know what your point of view on this experience is, but let me tell you mine, because I honestly don't even know if he knows what I know. Anyways, I got his permission to talk about it. And he's like, as long as you, like, as long as what you share is the point of, you know, he's
- [12:01]
Dan
like, but you just.
- [12:02]
Nick Viall
What you shared with me.
- [12:03]
Kada
Yeah.
- [12:03]
Nick Viall
Because I was like, listen, I don't, I don't want to talk about this. If this is going to bring you, like, if, if you've, if this is going to bring you any distress, like, this is not my goal. But I, I, I think what's happened to you is really wrong and I think it's fucked up. No one has your back. And I think it's, it must feel. Chris Harrison wrote the fucking forward to this book. Yeah, it's fucking crazy. And I have a ton of grace for my bachelor peers because I don't even know if they know the full truth. Right. Again, half, most of us, when we are like, processing and decompressing from our experience, it's best to just move on. It doesn't help us to just like, figure out every lie we don't that's ever been told. Right. I need friends with many producers. I don't need to, I'm like, what, 12, 12 years? 10? What year are we in the year? So it's been 10 years since my last Bachelor season. It's been 14 years since my first bachelor season. And I do have a lot of friends who are producers and even to this day, every once in a while, we'll be having a conversation about my experience and they will like almost accidentally tell me something about like, in a way, I was lied to.
- [13:08]
Kada
I have that experience too. Right.
- [13:10]
Nick Viall
And it's kind of a very, very. It's like, it's kind of an icky feeling.
- [13:13]
Kada
Or they say something that you realize. Like, they like I had. I have a friend that said something like, oh, well, she trusted me, so I. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wait, that's actually so crazy that you just like admitted that to my face that you told like
- [13:26]
Nick Viall
this weird sticky feeling. But you just like. And honestly, it's not productive to go back and like, what it, you know, you just move the fuck on.
- [13:34]
Sierra Miller
What are those relationships like now for you guys? Like, with that knowledge kind of.
- [13:39]
Nick Viall
Again, it's, it's. It's nuanced. Yeah, it's very nuanced.
- [13:42]
Kada
Me and Clayton's producer, I. We had kind of not actual beef, but like, we kind of had like. I mean, that ending of that season was insane.
- [13:50]
Sierra Miller
Yeah.
- [13:51]
Kada
And I don't think he liked me or like that we ended up together and like there was a little bit of turmoil for a while and now we're like totally cool. But similarly, it's like it serves neither of us to have any kind of like animosity. Like I see him and, and we're cool and honestly, we have a lot in common, you know. But it is, it's like there's so
- [14:07]
Nick Viall
many truth is that. That, that specific relationship, the lead bachelor producer and the in the lead himself, like, it's always intense, right?
- [14:16]
Kada
Intense.
- [14:17]
Dan
Yeah.
- [14:17]
Nick Viall
My former producer, like, she's like a sister to me. Like, we don't talk much, but if, if. If she called me up in need, I would be there for her. It's an intense relationship. Sometimes the leads don't even talk to their producer anymore because again, intense. It's always intense. What it's never should be is romantic.
- [14:36]
Sean Lowe
I can't.
- [14:36]
Nick Viall
I just can't. And then. So anyways, I was, I was. I will. One thing I will say about my conversation with Peter. Cause I was like, I felt like I was opening his eyes. I. I felt honestly really bad for him. I don't, like, I just don't think everyone knows the full scope of just how manipulated we have been over the years. And again, usually there's a trade off. Usually we just kind of all end up okay. Right. Like we, you know, my whole life I'm sitting here Today because of that show and whatever happened to me in that world, it's all worked out.
- [15:04]
Kada
It's net positive.
- [15:05]
Nick Viall
It's net positive.
- [15:06]
Kada
That's how I feel.
- [15:06]
Nick Viall
But I wasn't, like, coerced into a relationship at a time where I was the most vulnerable and then have that and then be exploited for it. Also, we know that Peter begged not to come out with the book, asked her point blank, please don't do this. Please don't exploit my story. And she did it fucking anyways. And you know what's even darker or more cynical about this? You know why you haven't heard from any Bachelor producers about why? Because I've talked to many over the weekend and they were all mortified and disgusted by this book existing. You know why? Because they all signed an NDA and they are not allowed to speak on some of their, like, you know, dark behavior as producers in the shit they have to do to produce the Bachelor. It would be career suicide. They'd be sued the fuck out of. I said this to Peter. Peter had the same question, very innocently. And I said, well, Peter, I haven't read the book, but I'm going to go ahead and guess none of that shit's in the book. She didn't write about the fact that she had harassment training at work and then decided to groom fucking Peter into, like, feelings. You know what I'm saying? She didn't talk about the fact that her job is literally, literally to coerce Peter and get him to say and do things they would probably never otherwise do in that world. It's literally her. You know who Peter goes to when he wants to talk to his therapist. He gets to. He has to go to fucking Julia and get permission to do that. Like, again, like, she is literally his whole world in that period of time.
- [16:28]
Susie
I have a question. So say he's having issues with, like, the contestants or doesn't know who he wants to choose. I'm assuming she's the one that he's going to for.
- [16:35]
Nick Viall
Like, she's going to hit her for every.
- [16:37]
Susie
She's literally like a hidden contestant on the season. And he probably didn't even realize, you know what I mean?
- [16:42]
Nick Viall
Like, emotionally, there's a poll quote from the book that's like, the lines were blurred. No, they. No, they fucking shouldn't have been. Not for you. It was literally. You literally had harassment training. You literally had training about the responsibility as a producer and the power you have over these people. The fact that they were blurred. It's like, this is A delusional person who has basically decided instead of like acknowledging like the, the crazy thing that she is literally doing, she is diluting it into some like rom com.
- [17:13]
Dan
That's insane.
- [17:13]
Kada
I just think that like it doesn't always work this way with situations because men and women are different in a lot of ways. But if the roles were reversed, if this were my producer from the Bachelor and he was writing a story about how I was the Bachelorette or lawsuits, oh my God, if, if, if he even cross that line, I would, I mean looking back, there'd be so many lawsuits if he wrote a book about intimacy with me. Like that would like in that perspective. It is actually so absurd and so disrespectful.
- [17:43]
Nick Viall
So fucking gross.
- [17:44]
Kada
It's so gross.
- [17:45]
Nick Viall
And honestly, shame on Chris Harrison. He should fudgeing know better.
- [17:49]
Sierra Miller
Why do you think Caitlyn had this producer on?
- [17:53]
Nick Viall
I don't know. But like again, I give Caitlyn a ton of grace because again, like we've all had had a bunch of trauma for this. I would, I will say this. I, I imagine that if Caitlin hears my perspective, I, I would be shocked if she didn't agree with me. And I, I, I think that like, again, I also think in that world, I think we've all been a little desensitized.
- [18:12]
Kada
That's the thing. I think there's a lot of desensitized
- [18:14]
Nick Viall
all this drama, right. I think we've all, every lead certainly know what it's like to get like fucking harassed by the online and like there's a part of you that like, I hate to say it, but you're almost like, at least it's not me when, when the tea comes out, so to speak. But I, I, you know, and it's
- [18:29]
Kada
the territory, it's like weirdly, the territory that we live in is like scandals happen and like they kind of push your career, your narrative. And it's as effed up as it is like, it's also part of it,
- [18:40]
Nick Viall
a little bit of trauma bonding. Because you know, you know, trauma bonding is the, one of the terms that's the most misused out there. Trauma bonding for all of you. It's not two people on the batch are talking about what happened as kids. Trauma bonding is what is when you're the person who's taking advantage of you, when you bond with that person, that's trauma bonding. The person who is like creating the trauma. Right? So every bachelor produce that you interacted with has been a, they've produced drama in your life. They have put you through it. Right? Again, part of that is like, you know, as we'll get into Love island, this, obviously this episode, and this is why we're always, like, telling the audience. It's just like, you know what? Honestly, just take pause a little bit. We do not know the conversations that these islanders are having with producers. We don't know how they're being guided. We don't know what information is being withheld from them that's given to others. Like, all that happens, right? But they are. It's the job of that reality TV producer to create these tension moments, to create these heightened moments, because, like, you know, there might be a moment where, you know, Melanie has had her highs and her lows, but Melanie is creating, through the help of producers, is an army of fans who relate to her because they are pushing her in these situations. It's heightened, heightened reality. It's. You know what I'm saying? It is. And. And there's a bit of a trade off. I've said this multiple times that, like, in the moment when I went to, quote, unquote, propose to Caitlyn my second season, at the time, I thought other producers were like, the most evil people for allowing me to do that. And 10 years later, I thank them for allowing me to do that because they gave me an opportunity to shine. Right? And that is the contract we have, is that you're gonna fuck with me, you're gonna put me in unsafe situations, but you're gonna help guide me through that situation, and I'm gon unconditional trust in you because, like, I don't know this world. I'm also going to be. You're going to withhold information from me. You're going to. And. And there's that trust. You do not get to seduce this person and exploit that story for your own benefit without. It's so fucking wrong. There is no versions of this where it is anything other than fucking wrong. And I don't know how much she told on herself and what's in that book, but there's only degrees of wrong.
- [20:52]
Susie
I agree. And also, like, what's weird too is Caitlin had asked her, like, did you have Peter Weber dreams that were vivid? And she literally responded, still last week. And it's annoying.
- [21:00]
Nick Viall
Sick of that weird.
- [21:02]
Kada
That's giving.
- [21:02]
Susie
So, like, it's still happening.
- [21:04]
Kada
It's giving fan behavior.
- [21:05]
Nick Viall
That's like, what was Chris Harrison's forward? What did you write?
- [21:08]
Sierra Miller
I have some of it here. There's a lot of tea being spilled throughout these pages. But there's so much more beneath the surface that readers will find relatable and inspirational. Come for the gossip, but stay for the lessons.
- [21:23]
Nick Viall
The lessons of what? How to exploit?
- [21:26]
Sierra Miller
Well, according to Chris, you will be compelled to laugh and to cry, but more importantly, to look in the mirror and ask yourself some very serious questions that will lead you to a better life.
- [21:39]
Dan
I was like, what part of this story is inspirational?
- [21:41]
Kada
Peter gotten to read it? Has she been? Has she been.
- [21:44]
Nick Viall
It's a question. I don't know. It's a question for Peter. I don't. I think he lived it. I don't think he needs to read it.
- [21:49]
Kada
I'm curious, like, what. What she's actually written. Like, I'm sitting here curious, like, is there any way that she's, like, exploiting this story? Like, to us maybe, or the. The. The world is. But then the book isn't that intimate. Like, is there any world or.
- [22:02]
Nick Viall
I don't know. She's clearly on a book tour.
- [22:04]
Kada
Yeah, I mean, she's promoting it.
- [22:06]
Nick Viall
She's talking about it. There's also. Apparently she has this. So another thing that's kind of fucked up, right? She went on and she's like, do you want to hear the story how I was almost a bachelorette, Right?
- [22:14]
Kada
And so she was.
- [22:17]
Nick Viall
So. Yes. And I. And I, like, it's a conflict of interest. Hold on, hold on. Let me just tell you the story. I was. And I was. It was. This was confirmed by my friend who had dinner with that. Like, there was a meeting. And again, I talked to a lot of. I was on the phone all day yesterday being like, what the fuck do you think about this? And then everyone's like, I know it's fucking crazy. And then that. That didn't make sense to me because, like, I have, you know, listen, there. There are so many meetings about being the lead. It's called casting, as one executive told me yesterday. Like, it's not that serious. There are more meetings about, like, who could be the potential lead. That doesn't mean you were most to lead. But whatever. I digress. But there was a meeting, and I was like, how did you. Like my understanding to the exact. The people I talked to is they no one knew about this actual. This relationship.
- [23:07]
Susie
Wait, so you're saying your friends confirmed there was a meeting but didn't know about the relationship?
- [23:12]
Nick Viall
So. Yeah, and I said, well, that doesn't make sense to me because I get. You know. But apparently. So I guess these rumors started because again, post filming that filming wraps used to Wrapped around Thanksgiving time. And then you'd have. Between Thanksgiving and New Year's, it was like a downtime. Again, you're still talking to your lead producer every day because you're hiding everything. You're hiding. Again, they're the only person you literally can have an honest conversation with because you can't tell the truth to anyone else. Again, like, again, just like an incredibly abuse of power. Peter went to Times Square for the, you know, New Year's rocking Eve or whatever, and apparently, I don't know, they kissed or didn't kiss. Rumors started spreading about maybe something going on between them. It is my understanding that no one, like, no one. No one, no executive or no one there, like, knew about it, knew about it, or even believed it was true because it would have been so fucking crazy. But this was a season where, again, they had no good options. Because if you remember, Peter's end of season was so messy. This was a man who was engaged to Hannah Ann, had feelings for Matty Pruitt, also had feelings for Kelly Flanagan. And now you look at that and you think back. Holy. The person most responsible for his feelings, even more so than Peter, was this Julie girl who was clearly thinking about her own interests.
- [24:27]
Susie
That's why I said she was like a hidden contestant. Like, nobody knew.
- [24:30]
Sierra Miller
That's.
- [24:30]
Kada
That's sick.
- [24:31]
Nick Viall
And so. So she took this meeting and, like, and the meeting went nowhere fast. Like, again, they were. They're just like, I don't know. They heard about a. They heard about a rumor. They had a conversation. Clearly they didn't pick her. But the way she tells it with Caitlin is that she's telling it. And by telling it the way she tells it, she's. To the audience, it makes it seem like the producers did know about it and therefore kind of like downplaying the seriousness of her behavior and almost giving us, like, a permission structure to not think what she's doing. Is that fucking bad. That's what I'm saying. Like, she's, like, out there, and no one really knows the truth of just how fucking sinister her actions are. Because I don't think most people understand the intimacy of this relationship and how much fucking power she had in Peter's life in this period of time. But the way she tells this story is if, like, people did know about it and they condoned it. Even Caitlyn post in the clip, she made a comment, and I'm assuming what Caitlin was saying is like, oh, they had the meeting even though they knew about it. And then Julie. Julie doesn't answer. She knows there's no way she doesn't know this is fucking wrong. Or she. Or she's literally delusional and unsafe cooker. It's my understanding with the people I talk to is no one knew that there was actually something going down, that
- [25:47]
Susie
there was a casting meeting, the fans
- [25:50]
Nick Viall
speculated and there was a buzz online. And these producers are just looking for buzz, right? So they followed the buzz and the buzz was that here is this producer who's out there looking for love. And she was like, again, taking advantage of her access to Peter. Again. Keep in mind, this chick only has access to Peter because it's her fucking job.
- [26:09]
Ad Host
Yeah.
- [26:10]
Sierra Miller
Nine to five.
- [26:11]
Nick Viall
And when we meet these producers, we're just like, I guess I can trust you. And I guess. And it's like, again, there's. We know you can't trust, like, you. We know they lie to us, right? Like, there's an understanding. I'm gonna survive this. And I'm not gonna nitpick the in between. For example, like my, my, my producer, I'll. I'll never forget this time. And I probably, I never even told her this. And if she listens to this episode, I don't know what she'll think. But we were doing pickups and she wanted me, she was trying to get me to say something. I don't remember what it was and honestly I don't think it was that serious. But it felt like I was just like, at this point, I had been like, in it so, so long. I'm not saying that because I just, I, in my mind, guys could use that. And that's not. I'm not down with that. And we went back and forth and back and forth and clearly you could tell that they were like, you need to get Nick to say this. And then she started crying. Now granted, I at the time thought they were real tears and I felt bad. And this is the part where, I don't know, like, she might be like, upset that I'm saying this. I believe now that she was fake crying. I don't know. It doesn't matter. Maybe she had an exhausting day. I do know her mentor was known for fake crying. Again, it's these people's jobs to make up stories about their personal life and about their personal trauma to get us to open up about our trauma. Right? That is literally her job.
- [27:28]
Susie
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this producer was also in a relationship at the time. A long term one, or it had ended right before. Something about there was a Long term relationship.
- [27:37]
Nick Viall
And now like, I guess there's another PO quote to saying something. I told. I told more things about Peter than I told my own boyfriend. And again, it's your fucking job. She writes it it like as if like she's pulling the whole like, Amanda, like you can't help who you love card.
- [27:50]
Sierra Miller
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:51]
Nick Viall
Like, well, you know, for Amanda, for all the critics, at least in Amanda's world, it actually is kind of allowed to like explore these relationship. As a reality TV star, you literally had like multiple classes about like, this is the. You better not do if you're in the right.
- [28:05]
Dan
Yeah.
- [28:05]
Kada
Also, if you feel at any point you're like developing feelings for somebody when you're in a position of power like that, that not just a boss or whatever, you need to remove yourself from the situation and say, hey, the only
- [28:16]
Nick Viall
right thing to do would recuse herself if she said, I think I wonder if I have feelings for Peter.
- [28:20]
Kada
Yeah. And just be like, you know what? I think somebody else should step into this particular role. I'll go to the cast side. I'll still produce whatever, but like I need to remove myself. It's the only appropriate thing.
- [28:30]
Nick Viall
The fact that Chris Harrison wrote the forehead of the book, it like disgusts me beyond the bomb belief. This is a man who was a host of the Bachelor at a time where you didn't have shows like this and you didn't have online fandom to kind of explain the behind the scenes. And this is a man who absolutely abused his power as a host. And what I mean by that is we all thought Chris Harrison was fucking God. We thought he was like in charge of casting. We thought that every decision went through Chris Harrison and he loved that we did that. He made us believe that he. He like that. That's the power he had. He actually had no power whatsoever. He's just a fucking host. He knows and he was part of the manipulation. He played in the manipulation. He saw. He knew firsthand all the shit that went down. And for him to put on a forward and, and, and advocate for this book. And if, if you're out there wondering why hasn't Peter spoken up and why hasn't he said anything? So I can only guess and protect his peace as Peter, but one probably protecting his peace. Like many of us who get caught up in like online, like when a story runs, you just think like, listen, like this is nuance. I would try to explain myself. Peter probably thinks he probably did something wrong. I don't think Peter fully understands just the scope 100%. When I was talking to him, I felt like I was like, opening up his eyes to, like. I don't think he even fully understood, you know? But think about it, Chris. Like, if you're. If you're Peter, right, and this is happening, and you know this book is coming out, you've asked her not to write it, it's coming out anyways. Then you see some of your peers have this person on their show. And again, I give all my peers a pass because I think, again, it's, It's. I hope they change their tune after hearing this perspective. Chris Harrison. Fuck that. He should fucking know better.
- [30:09]
Susie
This is your comeback. I'm sorry.
- [30:10]
Sierra Miller
Cook them, fry them, serve them for days.
- [30:12]
Nick Viall
Chris Harrison. Keep in mind he's still adored by many people in Bachelor Nation. For many people, he's the martyred host who deserved better, right? And so he is out there saying, no, this is okay. So he's co signing this book. So imagine if something happened to you. You're being victimized, you're being exploited, and you're wondering why no one's speaking up. And the reason why no one's speaking up, because again, contractually they're not allowed to. The one person who decides to speak up is the former host who says, this is all okay. If I'm Peter, I would be a little terrified. You're thinking, well, if I. If I say anything, no one's gonna. No one's gonna believe me, right? You know, no one. Like, you got Chris Harrison out there being like, oh, no, you're gonna. You're gonna learn something about your life, are you? What The. The, bro, you knew, you knew how fucking dark this was.
- [30:59]
Susie
Like, can you imagine? Also, like, this is one of the situations where. From Peter' I could only imagine, like, what's reality? You know, like, what. Whatever she's about to say, like, that was the. You're telling this, and now people are reading that, thinking that's reality. When like, now I don't even know
- [31:12]
Nick Viall
what was real on any season after the season. I was heartbroken. They. They. Multiple times they tried to get me to, like. They tried to convince me she was having second thoughts. They tried to get me to fly down to Mexico when she was like, having a honey and, you know, and I, you know, I was still. I was still, like, I wanted to believe she was having second thoughts, right? And it was. It was. It was almost going to happen. They almost convinced me, right? And they're like, well, we want you to talk to Chris. And I'M like, why do you want to talk to. You know, again, thinking like, he's a very influential. And the reality is, is like, Chris had nothing to do with this decision. He's not a producer. He doesn't come up with this. It's not. It's literally not his call. He is just the host. Right? But, like, they're. They're telling me that I need to. You. You need to talk to Chris and see if Chris is okay with this, you know, so they go to Chris and they tell him, you know, what's. What's up, what we need them to do. And I'll never forget there. I get on the phone with him and I'm like, Because again, like, I didn't ask. They were like, you got to talk to Chris. And Chris is like, what's up? As if, like, I requested to call Chris. Now, the reason they had to do this, you know, I don't know why. Deniability. So at afr, if they want to bring this up, then Chris can say, Nick reached out to me and asked me to see if he could see Andy. And he knows all about this. So again, he is fully a part of the manipulation machine. You know, he is. And again, this is not me trying to expose real. There's so much rope and so much leeway that, like, this world gets to make great tv, you know, and we love talking about it and we love debating it and we love discussing it. And some people like, oh, that's a little too far there. And I don't know about that, but, like, there is so much leeway. You don't get to seduce that person. You don't get to exploit them at their most vulnerable position. You don't get to insert, literally insert yourself into their family and then fucking exploit it and call it a fucking rom com.
- [32:58]
Dan
I was gonna say, to Susie's point, it's just giving. If this were in an office setting and it was a mentor, it was an office setting. But that's what I'm saying. Like, if we're doing like nine to five, like, this person would not only be reported to hr, but like, obviously job lost, all of these things. So it's just kind of crazy.
- [33:13]
Nick Viall
No, like, she's out there. Like, she's out there telling producers about it, and all the producers, like, well, if we would have known about this, we would have. There would have been a very different conversation at the time, but she doesn't work for them anymore. And then another thing about this, because we've talked so much about like, you know, the whole called the Taylor, Frankie, Paul. But by the way, it seems like that season's coming back thankfully. Keep in mind, this was all happening at a time where Hollywood in general is going through like, it's its biggest like, awakening of like, workplace. Me too. And like this was happening behind the scenes. But we've all heard all the dramatic stories about like, what was going on in the, in the, the product. Like, this isn't an ABC thing. This is a Warner Brothers production thing, right? But also none of those people work there anymore, right? You know, and so like, if they do air Taylor season, I can't stress enough whatever you think of Taylor, Frankie Paul and whatever decision she's made outside of this world, in that world, they have to protect their co stars. Like, the vulnerability again. Like, these love islanders, they're. They, they don't know what's going on in the world today. You know what I'm saying? They are sleep deprived. They're being dripped information and honestly, it's all over. And that's the thing. In that world, we do have to be accountable for our choices, right? And there's a lot of things we say and do as reality TV stars in that world that we all talk about, right? Like, and we all snark and things like that. It's like, it's, for me, I'm always reminded, like, I was watching the recoupling, right? And it's like, listen, it's as hard as a fan to like, not be critical when you're watching it. Be like, you dummy. You dummy. But like, every time I, every time I watch it, I feel so hypocritical because again, I just think we, as fans, we. You just, we need to have some grace here because I just don't think you realize how vulnerable these people are. But that being said, I do think it fair. It's fair to critique and make fun because like, at least we are judging their behavior. We can judge them because in that there's a separation, right? Like they're in that reality. So you're Peter's interacting with other people who are also like on the off the grid, emotionally and mentally, like, depleted and things like that, that that's an even playing field. The producer who is literally your God, who has all the information, your lifeline to the world, that's not an even playing field. That's fucked up.
- [35:32]
Susie
Do they actually have an intimate relationship? Because right now it seems like she's fantasizing stuff. So to me it reads as like fanfic. Which is a little gross.
- [35:38]
Nick Viall
Here's what I'll say. Here's what I'll say. I think this book is a tell all of her horrific actions. And I don't know exactly what's in the book, but there are only degrees of worse. Either she, you know, I, I think, I think there's more to it, and I don't know how much she tells on herself, but I think it's only degrees of bad. Here. You want a little conspiracy theory? And then we have to move on. Because I was like, yo, like, what is going on? How is this being allowed to happen? But again, keep in mind, most of these, Most of these, like, tell alls, when, like, a tell all is written, the reason why the people are allowed to tell it. Because again, like, as. As public figures, we give up the right to, like, have our story be stories, be private, right? So as long as they're not lying, you can write this shit. But my point is, this isn't a lie. It's probably all true. And this is not about, like, a juicy story about two things that happened between two reality TV stars. This is about a person telling about them on themselves, of how they manipulated and coerced someone into doing things at a time where they were most, most, like, susceptible. Not to mention, like, I don't, you know, listen, Hannah Ann, Matty Pruitt, they seem like they're out there living their best life. But, like, if this, if this got found out at the time when it went down, this could have destroyed Peter. Do you, man? What, like, fans have crucified people for far, far less. They would have eviscerated this man. Not to mention, like, all these women who had this in the fantasy suite element of the show. You make a huge sacri. Again, you, you, you allow yourself to be convinced that is okay to potentially spend the night and even sleep with a man who's also doing that with other women. And you're just like, you know what? In this world, that's okay. But they didn't know that he was being coerced by, like, his producer into potentially. Also, like, they didn't know that they were competing with her.
- [37:30]
Susie
That's what I said. She was a hidden contestant, which is the craziest thing. To me. That should be the name of the book.
- [37:35]
Dan
Peter's season was not great. Like, I feel like people were pissed about, like, the ending of that. Now it's like, knowing that she's in the background. No wonder he was giving you no clarity.
- [37:43]
Nick Viall
There's no way that she didn't play a huge role.
- [37:45]
Sierra Miller
So even from a producer, even from just her doing her job standpoint, right, Regardless, take out the. Take out the ickiness of it and obviously like, the emotional manipulation of it, you are doing your job poorly because you're contaminating your own experiment. You're taking out every sort of. Like, you're also just being a bad producer. Like, that's stupid. Like, why are you doing that?
- [38:08]
Nick Viall
I mean, you're ruining the show. You're, like, sitting, listening to clips of her on Kid. I mean, she just sounds honestly off her fucking rock and she sounds like she's drinking her own Kool Aid and she's living in this fantasy world of like the Lulu and like, you know, you know what this kind of, you know, like when you go back and watch like rom coms from like the 90s and, and like, like, like the Notebook, you know, people are just like, yeah, it's a really great movie and I love it. But like, man, I don't know, like, does that happen in the real world? Like, that might be like, oh, yeah, yeah, like he's holding the cards and this is what this is. But in real time where someone's like, trying to create a rom com about something that happened that pretty fucked up if it wasn't real. Like, maybe you could pitch it as, like, kind of romantic. But like, in this, in this place, it's at a minimum a workplace violation. Anyways, so the book was published by an independent publisher out of Dallas.
- [38:56]
Susie
Is that supposed to mean something?
- [38:57]
Nick Viall
Well, Chris Harrison. Chris Harrison lives in Dallas. And I don't know, maybe that's just a coincidence. No, it is. It is. It is. It is. Like, it's pretty common. I wrote a book and some wonderful people were kind enough for free to just write me a little, like, little blurb. So I assume Chris Harrison has not monetized this experience because I just can't believe that Chris Harrison would write that and put his name on it for free. And if he monetized that shit, then, fuck, man. I assume he's not, but if he is, now it is distributed because I looked this up for Mr. Peter Weber. I really feel for me, justice for justice for Peter.
- [39:38]
Kada
I'm really glad that you're bringing it like, this kind of attention to it. I will say I think that people don't.
- [39:44]
Nick Viall
I don't know if they're gonna care.
- [39:45]
Kada
Honestly, I don't know either because I
- [39:47]
Nick Viall
don't think they care about her.
- [39:48]
Kada
But I think you're doing the Right thing. And I know, like, that's kind of cheesy, but I do think it's really up what's happening.
- [39:53]
Nick Viall
I don't think. I don't know if they're gonna care. I don't know if they're gonna be desensitized because Peter's a man again.
- [39:57]
Kada
That's the thing. Peter, man.
- [39:59]
Nick Viall
They casted Peter because he's a lover boy. And then again, they exploited that lover boy personality, which is all fine, and he made a great season, and he is a lover boy. But again, you don't get to take advantage of that personality and that type of person to your own benefit. That's what made him a great bachelor. He just was kind of always confused about how he felt. He emoted, and he clearly was the perfect bachelor because he was capable of having multiple feelings for multiple people.
- [40:29]
Dan
Yeah.
- [40:29]
Nick Viall
And this person exploited that for her own benefit. And then. And, and then. And then Peter asked her not to do it, and she did it anyways,
- [40:38]
Sierra Miller
which means it's not.
- [40:39]
Nick Viall
And no one who really knows how wrong it is is legally allowed to speak on it.
- [40:44]
Kada
I was gonna say, also, I think people might downplay how serious it is because they are two, like, consenting adults. And I, to an extent, I understand it's kind of like, you know, we discuss a lot of relationships here, and it's like, well, it's two consenting adults. But I really, really think that in the same way that workplace dynamics and, like, power dynamics play a part and what is, like, ethically right and wrong, I genuinely can say, from being on. On the side of it as a contestant and being truly. I don't think people understand the lifeline that producers are to you and how. I don't. I don't want to say, like, tormenting or like traumatic it can be because I. Again, everything's been net positive for me. I'm so grateful for my life. But, like, it is truly such a wild experience to have somebody have that much control and an ability to manipulate. And the power dynamic. It is. I don't think anybody understands, and I don't even really talk about it because I'm like, I don't need anyone to feel bad for me. But it. It is very. Like, when I hear this, I'm like, that is actually so up because somebody would do that to a contestant or
- [41:47]
Nick Viall
what trauma bonding is. These producers do bring trauma into our life. And then. And a lot of conversations we have a producer is that bond over, like, yeah, you did that shit to me. And we we survived it together and I made through it on the other side and yada, yada, yada.
- [42:02]
Dan
That's what's wild, is that you guys can like talk about it after because
- [42:05]
Nick Viall
you have to process it, you have to deal with it. Like, Ari, you know, like, again, I don't know. I haven't sat down and talked with Ari about this, but again, I imagine Ari is this more focused on the fact that, like, he married the love of his life and has a beautiful family and it's all figured it out. I don't think it just does Ari any good to like, go back and find out all the different ways he was manipulated and lied to because it's his best to move on and that. And most of us can do that because we don't have a producer fucking writing this shit down and telling my story or their story and from their lens and selling it is something that like, instead of it being the truth, which is like this horrific actions is some sort of rom com that like society is eating up is fucking tea and then the host calling it tea.
- [42:50]
Kada
Yeah, it's a good time.
- [42:51]
Sierra Miller
Yeah.
- [42:52]
Kada
The ability to be able to move forward. I have so many peers and friends and people that I've met through the Bachelor who can't move forward. And like, every time I'm with them, it's like rehashing how traumatic or how horrible it was. And like, I remember, like I introduced a couple of batch of people that weren't from my season to a girlfriend. She turned her back to them. Like we were at a bar and she goes, oh, my God, they are so up. How are you so normal? And I was like, like, I don't really know. Like, some people are. I mean, some. I feel like what I went through comparatively, like, on one hand, it's really great. On Sundays, it's like, oh, that was really up. But then some people who maybe didn't even get as far. It's like, it can be so heavy and it can affect you for years.
- [43:30]
Nick Viall
And not to diminish your experience because obviously you had a very intense one,
- [43:34]
Kada
but also very positive.
- [43:36]
Nick Viall
But the leads, again, you get criticized for everything. You are responsible for all the women and all the men and anything that happens, you are. You're the lead. And like, it's just. It's never ending. And like the. The emotional and mental stress that like, you don't sleep, you don't eat, you're. You're working 18 hours a day, seven days a week. You are. And again, you have just. You're just you, you're so exhausted that again, you go to this person, your lead producer, and you put unconditional trust. Like even when you don't trust all the other producers, you tell yourself, I can trust this person, even though deep down you don't know if that's entirely true.
- [44:14]
Kada
But it's the best.
- [44:15]
Nick Viall
It's the best you got.
- [44:16]
Kada
Yeah.
- [44:16]
Nick Viall
Anyways, the book, it turns out the book doesn't come out until July 7th, and I hope.
- [44:22]
Sierra Miller
Don't read it.
- [44:23]
Nick Viall
I hope.
- [44:23]
Kada
I know.
- [44:24]
Nick Viall
I hope if you're so Simon Schuster, turns out they are the distributor, one of the biggest publishing companies, and if I'm the distributor, I would pull this fucking book off the shelves because you literally just like, I don't know. Although O.J. wrote a book, and if I did
- [44:38]
Susie
it, what is her path forward? Is my question, like, what do you know?
- [44:41]
Nick Viall
I mean, honestly, Delusion. Fuck. I don't know. She's clearly never to work as a producer, and I wouldn't think so.
- [44:46]
Kada
Yeah, yeah, right.
- [44:47]
Nick Viall
I think this was her big, like, trying to have her be her moment.
- [44:51]
Sierra Miller
She probably wants that book to get optioned by someone. They make a movie, she gets money for the rights, and then she becomes famous. It's like a fanfic situation.
- [44:58]
Nick Viall
I don't know what people are going to say about all this, but I. I don't know if they've been so desensitized and. And just want the tea, but if this was any other situation, this would be the biggest scandal in reality tv.
- [45:09]
Kada
I think it's funny to downplay men's experiences until it becomes just like this. You know what I mean? I'm like, it's funny to like, he, he like, oh, like. Like when we talk about like Love island or whatever, and I'm like, I'm okay to. On men for a little bit, but I'm like, but when it comes to reality, not always pretty fair, but yeah, I'm like, yeah, but when it's like, really something serious like this, I'm like, okay, no, we've gone too far. Like, this is a human being with real feelings who can. Who was truly exploited and taken advantage of intimacy.
- [45:38]
Nick Viall
And clearly, I. No doubt. I'm sure his mental health has been drastically affected the past couple of months by finding out about this book and asking her not to write it. And then she writes it anyways. He's now got to stay offline, I assuming. And listen, we understand as real as public figures, like, the Internet sucks and you deal with it. But like, he shouldn't have had to deal with this. And again, you know, again, I'm no lawyer, so what, what do I know? I would think it would be pretty easy to argue that Peter was like his. His half is his career. Now he's a pilot, is to go on to be online. And now from a mental health standpoint, how can he be online when this like, very traumatic experience is being exploited?
- [46:12]
Susie
Now he's being asked, can you comment on this? Can you comment on this?
- [46:15]
Kada
And his reputation and like, not to say that there's he's done anything wrong, but at the end of the day, like, I mean, I care about being brand safe to an extent. And it's like this is something that is exploit. It's exploiting intimacy and sexuality. And it's like he's moved on from that point of his career. He's not the bachelor anymore. He is a pilot who has to face people that come onto his plane. And you're talking about his sex life.
- [46:35]
Nick Viall
Like justice for Peter Weber.
- [46:37]
Kada
Yeah, we have your.
- [46:38]
Nick Viall
All right, well, we have Sean from Love Island. He is up next. He was the first to leave the island and he is with us to talk about obviously not only his experience, but he has been watching. He's got a lot to say and some really interesting insights. I really enjoyed our conversation with Sean. He is up next. And coming out of Sean, we will obviously break down the recoupling of Casa More, all the drama that went on in the villa, get in some Real Housewives of Rhode island and call it a day. Before we get to Sean, don't forget violence plus is ad free and has some. This is the Peter Weber I'll be talking more about this I will really get into the maybe some more behind the scenes secrets of the shit that goes down in that world. Anyways, that's where we discuss nuance. So we have our reality recap, deep dives, our pop extras, our update specials, and it's all ad free, so be sure to sign up. We're also doing a sale this 4th of July.
- [47:29]
Sierra Miller
Yep. The sale is 25 off. Any annual plan if you use code 25 off.
- [47:34]
Nick Viall
Period, period. Get your 25 off sign up. Go to vile files.com. all right, let's get to Sean.
- [47:43]
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- [49:06]
Nick Viall
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- [50:18]
Sean Lowe
Thank you for having me, man. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
- [50:21]
Nick Viall
We're super excited to have you. How has been the decompression of Love Island? Obviously, we're. We're smack dab in the middle of the season, really picking up. Are you still following the season and watching it as it goes?
- [50:34]
Kada
Those.
- [50:34]
Sean Lowe
Yeah. So I mainly. I'm be honest with you, when I throw on the episodes, I'll, like, I'll be flipping through my book and I kind of glance back and forth.
- [50:42]
Susie
Yeah.
- [50:42]
Kada
Yeah.
- [50:43]
Sean Lowe
And then when things get like, when I. A conversation kind of catches my attention, I'll put the book down and watch it for a little bit and go back and forth. But I have been. I have been keeping up. And then as of more recently, I think I put my book down the entire recoupling. Yeah, you know what? I was like, let's listen to this on this.
- [51:00]
Nick Viall
So how have you processed, like, being eliminated? I mean, I feel like. I feel like as the season goes along, a lot of fans are missing you more and more. Obviously we didn't get, like, a chance to really get to know you like some of the other islanders because of your exit. But, like, is that something you've. Have you accepted the. The dumping or. Or does the FOMO increase as the season moves along?
- [51:25]
Sean Lowe
Oh, man. There. So there's a lot of times where I don't get the fomo. I have the. It kind of sucks. Get into it. And it's the. I had a couple. I got. I was og. So I got lucky, got a guaranteed couple, and then I lose her within 24 hours. And then the rest of the time I don't get a couple. So my. All my buddies in my family give that part to me the worst. But then I did feel. I did enjoy. Like, it was nice coming out, feeling like it went bad. And then a lot of people were showing love and, like, appreciation and stuff. So that made it a lot easier. The FOMO comes, though, when you see, like, Meg, the stuff.
- [52:04]
Nick Viall
Like, no way.
- [52:05]
Sean Lowe
I'm like, no way.
- [52:07]
Sierra Miller
I was gonna.
- [52:07]
Sean Lowe
That one was hard to see.
- [52:09]
Nick Viall
Yeah, that is definitely a bummer.
- [52:11]
Sean Lowe
I definitely miss, like, you know, all. All. All the, like, conversations we would have and the good times, because not everything makes it on camera. So it's like those relationships and everything that were cut short sucks. But at the same time, like, when I go back home, it's. It's to my son, and I'm enjoying every second of it, so it's, like, bittersweet. But I do get that FOMO every now and then on episodes.
- [52:31]
Nick Viall
That's amazing. That's amazing. Sean, can I ask you, how old are you again? I forget.
- [52:35]
Sean Lowe
29.
- [52:36]
Nick Viall
29. So you are. You were on the kind of older side of the casting. I think a lot of fans were watching this, and I don't know. I can't speak for everyone, but it may. It makes me. As the season goes along, I'm a little more sad about your exit, because it does. I don't know about you. When you're watching it, do you feel like you could have brought a little maturity to the villa that we maybe were not seeing? You know, in terms of, like. Like, you know, one. One thing I wish I would see more is, like, some of the guys hold each other accountable a little bit more for how they're moving. You're obviously a father. You got a son he's gonna date someday. I'm curious, like, sincere. Seems like a really charming, fun guy. I'd love to be friends with him, but at the same time, it's more like, bro. Like, when he's just like. He's like, I'm not manipulative, but I just don't tell the full truth. And I'm like, you know, I'm the type of friend who's like, who. Who shoots my friend straight. Like, you. You know, you. You know, you can give them tough love. Do you think if you were still in the villa, how would you maybe approach Casey in sincere? Because obviously, these.
- [53:41]
Susie
These.
- [53:42]
Dan
These.
- [53:42]
Nick Viall
It's very challenging. It's very confusing. But, like, how would you. What advice would you give these men and how to move throughout the villa, especially when they were in casa.
- [53:52]
Sean Lowe
That is a great question. I think, to start, I'm being 29 and a father. At the same time, I feel I'm at a different stage in life than most people on that show. And that being said, I agree with you to where there's conversations to be had where it's like, hey, I'm gonna pull you to the side. Maybe not in front of everyone. When I personally have friendships, I'm like, hey, we'll deal with what we have to deal with in public, and we'll mitigate the. We'll mitigate the damage. But then in private, it's kind of like, hey, man, like, let's have this conversation. What's going on in your head? Because what you have to understand is the show, not unintentionally, it induces stress, for sure, so.
- [54:26]
Nick Viall
Well, also intentionally.
- [54:28]
Sean Lowe
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a lot of times people under stress, they make decisions, and it's hard for them process what's going on.
- [54:34]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [54:34]
Sean Lowe
So it's not like, you know, Sincere may say something, and then the audience from the outside looking in, looking at it is like, oh, why would you ever do that? But they don't understand, like, the stresses that come with being on the show. And then, honestly, when I was younger, you know, I had. I had my, you know, realm of issues that I was going through, and then it's something that you see, and then you can identify and you can fix those things. So maybe when he sits back and finally takes himself out of it, and then he can see, he might be like, oh, I want to adjust this. I want to adjust that. And then if I could give them advice to Sincere, I would be like, tell the part that you think is going to hurt people the most, because that's the honesty that they deserve in it.
- [55:14]
Nick Viall
There you go. Yeah.
- [55:15]
Sean Lowe
And I feel like you said he's. He's a. He's an awesome dude. He was my best friend when I was in there, and I know his intentions aren't exactly what's being portrayed. So with Sincere, I'd be like, hey, man, you have to. In these tough conversations, you're gonna have to hurt someone's feelings and let them make the decision on how they want to, you know, move on with you afterwards. Whether Melanie wants to stay with you or she wants to go, that's her decision to make. But she deserves the truth in that, for sure. And. And with kc, It's. It's interesting because I. I'm not a person that's gonna watch the show and make judgments, because I know what it feels like to be on there.
- [55:49]
Susie
Yeah. Yeah.
- [55:50]
Sean Lowe
So for Case, Casey and Sincere both. Right. It's conversations will be had after the show, and I'm like, hey, how you feeling? Blah, blah, blah. And then one day we can talk. What was going on here? Like, what was kind of going through your head outside looking in? It just seems like from what he said and what he's kind of, like, portrayed is that he feels like he's being attacked from all angles. And, I mean, it's real difficult to. When someone feels like their backs against the wall and, like, people are constantly, like, picking out and picking out and picking on them. They're like, it's understandable why someone would bite back, but it's hard to have an opinion on it because I haven't seen the full 24 hours. I'm just watching one hour clips.
- [56:26]
Nick Viall
Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's. I mean, you make a lot of good. Obviously, and we talk about this a lot on the show. As someone who, like, knows this world pretty well, like, you know, I don't think, obviously fans know the full context. Obviously every islander is moving with different information. They don't. You know, the conversations they're having with production obviously influences their decision and things like that. So, yeah, I definitely think it's important we give everyone just a little bit of grace. Why do you feel like Casey continues to make such a big deal about the fact that he wasn't pitching picked, like the first day, you know, where no one really knew each other? Do you feel like that's just like a defense mechanism on his part, or do you think there's something really there that we're not considering?
- [57:09]
Sean Lowe
That's tough. I. The problem is, is. So I've only was in the villa for a week, and in that week when I would speak to kc, like, he's a solid dude. Like, I. I love that guy. You know what I mean? So then to see it come out, it's just, just if someone wasn't behind my door on the first day, it would be a big hit to my confidence in a way. At that same time, once I was able to process and be like, hey, nobody really, like, knows me. You know what I mean? And I think it just, I think because he hasn't had the opportunity to step outside the villa, it's like, it just seems so much bigger than it really was because Casey's an attractive dude. Like, he has people making edits of him all over the place, but he can't see that.
- [57:53]
Sierra Miller
Yeah.
- [57:53]
Sean Lowe
So when it's like you bring the doors, you bring the, like, dramatics, the cameras, you're on tv, everyone's watching, and then you open a door and no one's there, it's like, oh, like you kind of begin to, like, panic a little bit. I think in his case, I don't know if it's something deeper or not, but when he had brought it up at the recoupling, I was like, you could see the hurt. Hurt in it that was like, it's still unresolved. And I just don't know if that's something that can really be resolved until you're pulled out of it and you get the chance to like, sit down and process. Because when I opened the door that when Bea wasn't there, I was like, oh, like, this sucks. And then once me and Bea had that conversation, it was like, you know, I've only was with her for what, 12, 24 hours. So I just kind of of my ability to kind of like, process and walk through things and my threshold of stress is just a little bit different and personal to me. So I think in his. That it's just. It's hard because feelings are feelings, right? So if, like, if it's big to you, man, like it's big to you and let's walk through it and unpack it. But I don't know if he has the tools to unpack it in the way that he wants to, if that makes sense. Because even Trinity's response, although it came off, you know, like it was in the middle of everything going on. She was like, we just didn't know you. Like, it wasn't a personal, like, hey, we don't like Casey or Casey's not attractive. It was just, we all met, we all made out, and then it was like, pick. You know what I mean?
- [59:26]
Nick Viall
Yeah, totally.
- [59:27]
Dan
Yeah.
- [59:27]
Nick Viall
I think I. I'm just really been fascinated by that relationship because I think that's where fans seem to be most divided. Right? Like on one end you have like a nice fans who are obviously very protective of her and feel like she was kind of let on. You have a lot of Casey fans who are just more like, listen, like this is an imperfect world and like, you know, kind of referencing. It's just like no one really knows anyone. I listen, I watch it and I think like, KC has a much better match with tt. Their energy seems to make a lot of sense where like with Anaya and Casey, it seemed like she really liked him and I think he really liked her and kind of respected her at first. But I felt like the more that I saw them interact, it was like, I just. I. I'm not. It doesn't make sense to me. I think where I struggle the most, where I've been more like empathetic to. To Anaya, where it's just like. And sometimes I'm like, you know, we'll be critical of. Of young men. It's just like, I think as. As guys as dating, sometimes we'll have a habit of saying the thing that we know will really land in a meaningful way with the ladies, you know, so to speak. You know, when Casey had that conversation with Anaya early On that really made her feel seen, like, I think, think, you know, it's just like, I feel like Casey is a really, you know, smart and empathetic guy. And it's just like, I think that stuck with her and, and it felt like Casey kind of acted like that wasn't a big deal. And it kind of felt like, and I'm curious your opinion. Like, when Casey went in Casa Amore, it seemed like he was really looking for, like, like he wanted to explore, but kind of made Anaya feel like he was committed to this relationship, but, like, open to explore. Or like Anaya was more like, listen, if I have to explore, I will. I guess this is the point of the show, but what I really want to do is just be in a relationship with you, Casey. And then you saw him go a casa more and just really embrace casa more. And I felt like if he would have just gone to Anaya and said, listen, I need to explore this shit. I really, like, I, I, I, I need to give you a heads up that I'm really going to lean into ca some more. I felt that would, I felt like that would have given Anaya, like, permission to, like, really just see if there's something there with Carl. I'm curious what you think about all that, Sean.
- [61:45]
Sean Lowe
Oh, man, that is another great question. And like you said, it is, it is a very popular relationship. And I see the Internet's just like split on both sides of it. The hard part is I remember a conversation where he opened up to her about wanting to explore Seoul, and I think this was when Seoul was already gone.
- [62:03]
Sierra Miller
Yeah.
- [62:03]
Sean Lowe
And I don't know if it was the cuts or the edits, but I know at one point Anaya said, do what you want, got up and walked away. So I don't know if there was a time where he was gonna open up and say that, but based on all the conversations that are available, that were available to us, it did look like, you know, him and Anaya were kind of on the same page about, hey, like, I wanna explore, but like, you're my number one. And then he had said something like, I was gonna explore soul, but I was afraid how she would react or something along those lines. And I don't know if that was broken down into being like, what do you mean by afraid? Were you afraid like, I'm gonna lose Anaya or were you like, I just didn't wanna hurt her feelings, but I wanna explore another couple. And if that conversation wasn't had, it is something to where it makes sense. Of what happened when they came back to the villa. Because when you have have the high emotions of it, people can say, oh, it's only been two weeks. But like if you're in this environment, you're at, for lack of a better phrase, you're trauma bonding with these people. So you're getting close very fast. And then when the emotions are height are heightened. It felt to me outside looking in, everyone was arguing different points. The villa girls were like, KC, I don't appreciate how you went about exploring. And KC's response and his argument was what the experience is and you're supposed to explore in the villa. And it was like people were kind of too high hot in the moment to understand what the other person was even saying in the first place. And then like, you know, TT and Trinity, it's like, then it becomes a conversation of like, hey, don't interrupt me, I don't like how you're talking to me. So now you add a third component. So it's like we're upset with how you're doing it. You're explaining us what the experience is, which we know and we're not mad about that versus how you're talking to me. And then it just becomes kind of this like chaotic sequence to where, where it's just so hard to call for me like looking at it, I looking at it without just making any judgments. It seems like there's a lot of hurt on Anaya's side, but then there's also the hurt on KC side and they both want their hurt to be validated. They just aren't communicating it in a healthy way. So it's like, I don't know if KC was ready to tell Anaya, you know, at the time of the, the talk where she walked away like, hey, I'm going to explore like blah, blah, blah. And maybe that just cut it off. And he was like, you know, whatever. But it's just so hard because you see the you because you know, like you'll have a one hour conversation and then you watch it back on TV and it's a 15 second clip. You're just like, yeah. Like there was more to that. I mean, people were shocked when I said that I had feelings for Anaya. They were like, then why didn't you pull her for chats? And I was like, well, I've called her for chats every single day. She didn't make it on one. So that's why. Outside looking in, I think what was portrayed, it seemed like when Casey and I have their Conversation. He needs to explain why he went about the experience the way he did. And then for Anaya, I don't think she needs the understanding of what the experience is. She understands that and the exploring of it. She's more upset on, hey, what you said to me, what you told me, me, I'm thinking we're long term. You know what I mean? And then it's hard when she talks about Carl and it's like, I, I think Carl checked a lot of boxes that she was looking for.
- [65:21]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [65:22]
Sean Lowe
And you know, she made the decision with her heart and what she thought was best. And she really liked Casey. It's unfortunate, but I've seen he came back, so hopefully that works out.
- [65:32]
Nick Viall
Yeah, hopefully that works. I have two more questions.
- [65:35]
Sean Lowe
Okay.
- [65:36]
Nick Viall
You mentioned sincere was your boy. Right? Right.
- [65:38]
Sean Lowe
Yeah.
- [65:39]
Nick Viall
And he seems like a nice guy, but I'm curious. I want to ask if Mel, if, if Melanie came to you. Let's say Melanie, you know, Melanie, sincere. They're dating. Whatever. You become friends with both of them. I, I, how Melanie was just like, I don't like how people use apologies for band aids. I thought was like an amazing line, which is like, that's kind of what sincere seems to be doing a little bit. Despite sincere being your boy.
- [66:01]
Sean Lowe
Yeah.
- [66:01]
Nick Viall
What advice or what would you tell Melanie just based off of. If we took what we're seeing at face value, like in the dating world. Right. Of Love Island.
- [66:11]
Sean Lowe
Okay.
- [66:11]
Nick Viall
What would, what advice would you give Melanie if she was like, hey, do you think I should, do you think I should keep investing in this guy based on everything that's happened, or do you think I should move on?
- [66:21]
Sean Lowe
Oh, that's a good question. I would say for Melanie, find out what you want long term, not how you feel now. Not the butterflies and the honeymoon phase. What do you want? Like, if you want marriage, what do you want your husband to look like and what are your expectations on that part? And then does he meet these expectations for one, or is he making changes in his behavior to lead to what you're inevitably looking for? Because if not, I think I, you know, I think you should rip the band aid off at that point and find what you're looking for.
- [66:53]
Nick Viall
Great answer.
- [66:54]
Sean Lowe
I just think, yeah. To just to have that standard because a lot of people are like, oh, how does this person make me feel on a day to day basis? And they get trapped in like a circle in a cycle of, you know, know, just whatever that person is portraying at that time. But if you have a filter of standards to run through to be like, hey, I want, you know, the husband that if we have an issue and we talk about that issue and we come with a plan afterwards rather than like, hey, are we good? It's like, no, what's the plan for it? And then either they act on the plan or they don't. You kind of have your answer there and your decision there.
- [67:25]
Nick Viall
So that makes a lot of sense.
- [67:27]
Sean Lowe
I mean, I'm rooting for them. Yeah, I'm rooting for them. And to be like, so honest, I answer that question as like, I'm friends with Melanie because if I was friends with both outside the villa, like, I'm way or to sincere, I would honestly just, like, take myself out of it
- [67:39]
Nick Viall
and be like, it makes sense. And I appreciate you giving us this honest answer, knowing that, like, it's clear you have a lot of empathy for your peers. And, like, I get it, man. Like, no, I understand how, like, I think sometimes I wish fans would just chill out a little bit because, like, there's. They're criticizing people who, like, are not in the real world. It's crazy. There was a lot of discourse online about you being obviously a police officer and you leaving to go on Love island, where you do. Do things stand now with your career in law enforcement. Is that something you still plan on pursuing or. Or not?
- [68:13]
Sean Lowe
So hopefully. Well, to answer that, I didn't resign from my department. They cleared for my time off, and then they were like, we're not going to clear for your unpaid leave. And they voluntarily resigned me instead of firing me. So that didn't happen. But neighboring agencies have all reached out and they're like, hey, if you want to come work for us, like, we'll 100% take you and you can work for us.
- [68:33]
Nick Viall
That's great.
- [68:34]
Sean Lowe
I think where I'm at now in life, um, hope, hopefully, like, you know, if things go well with social media and I can make enough money to go back to school, I would like to go to nursing school and then switch into a different first responder profession and go that route. Because, I mean, I gave. I gave a lot to policing and there was a lot of, you know, like, personal decisions that came with it and making this decision to, like, go to Love island, right? So I'm. I think that chapter is pretty much closed. But. But of course, like, obviously, if things don't work out right, and I need a career, I could see myself applying to another agency.
- [69:08]
Nick Viall
It's a tough game. My brother's a cop, man. It's tough. You guys really Sacrifice a lot to do what you do. So I appreciate you.
- [69:15]
Sean Lowe
No, thank you. Yeah, it's definitely. It's a. It's a very. I see. I understand people's criticisms when it comes to law enforcement. I'm well aware of the history of it. And so I don't. I don't take any, you know, anything personal to it. When people don't like it, I'm like, hey, it is. What it is is the people that I've answered call fors can speak for themselves on how it was dealing with me.
- [69:35]
Nick Viall
Sean, appreciate you taking the time, man. You know, this has been a great conversation. It makes me more sad that you left because you, you clearly, obviously, you know, you being 29 and law, you know, in law enforcement, clearly you have some emotional immaturity. I think it would have been appreciated in the villa.
- [69:52]
Sean Lowe
Yeah.
- [69:53]
Nick Viall
So I was sad to see you go, man. But it was great getting to know you a little bit. Best of luck with everything along the way. And I really appreciate you, your time, man.
- [70:00]
Sean Lowe
Of course. Thanks for having me. You guys have a good day.
- [70:02]
Nick Viall
All right, Take care.
- [70:02]
Sierra Miller
Thank you.
- [70:05]
Nick Viall
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- [74:01]
Susie
I was gonna say about Chris Harrison, as Kada said, wrong way to enter the villa, Wrong way to come back to society.
- [74:07]
Sierra Miller
Wrong way to enter the villa.
- [74:09]
Susie
Like, I'm sorry, this is how you come back.
- [74:11]
Nick Viall
I literally, again, I don't know, I, I assume he did that shit for free, but it makes no sense to me that he would write that.
- [74:17]
Susie
And he had to have read the book, right? Because the way that he's talking about it, that's part where I'm like, maybe he did it.
- [74:23]
Nick Viall
I don't think everyone who puts their name on reads the book. But I. Rude awakening either way. Like, either there's a book he should have read.
- [74:31]
Susie
Yeah, this is what you're co signing.
- [74:32]
Nick Viall
But he knows that she was the producer. And the fact that again, like before I knew what actually happened, I just thought it was icky that she was exploiting him, period. And I thought it was just like exploiting him for clout. Being like I was, you know, like, I have pictures of Peter, you know, like I thought that was icky.
- [74:50]
Susie
It's still icky.
- [74:50]
Nick Viall
And he should know that there's no version that, that's not icky.
- [74:54]
Dan
As I said in my head when we were talking about it, I'm just like, I think if I were the writer, if I picked this up, I would do it in a way like the Affair, where I would have her perspective where she's the hero, she's leading him, but like also so conflicted with her own feelings, but that's like her own psyche. Where then we'd have his perspective where he's just this lost little like trying to figure out the guy, realize that
- [75:15]
Nick Viall
she's the monster that she is.
- [75:17]
Dan
Thank you.
- [75:17]
Sierra Miller
That would be such a good, good flip.
- [75:19]
Dan
Thank you. Copyright the problem.
- [75:21]
Sierra Miller
Someone's gonna pick it up.
- [75:23]
Dan
Don't get.
- [75:24]
Nick Viall
If Peter gets paid.
- [75:26]
Sean Lowe
Great.
- [75:26]
Nick Viall
I mean, I, I don't. I.
- [75:28]
Dan
Hey, Peter, call me. I've got an Idea to shop Peter.
- [75:30]
Nick Viall
Peter and justice for Peter. I, he, he deserves a ton of empathy. This is not okay. Anyways, man, lots going on in, in the villa.
- [75:39]
Sierra Miller
Sean was really cool.
- [75:40]
Nick Viall
Sean was really cool. He seemed like I really, we could have used some 29 year old energy.
- [75:47]
Sierra Miller
He really, I mean this is a com compliment. He seemed very 29 and it was like a nice, in a way I could breathe.
- [75:54]
Nick Viall
Like he didn't like, he doesn't seem 22.
- [75:56]
Kada
How tall is he?
- [75:57]
Sierra Miller
Do we think Sean Love island tall enough?
- [76:01]
Dan
Suze asking for a friend and with
- [76:04]
Sierra Miller
a fully formed frontal lobe as well.
- [76:09]
Dan
The bars in hell, my friends.
- [76:11]
Nick Viall
First of all, I just like, I, you know, coming off our producer conversation, I just thought it was fun to tv. Yeah, I agree with Sierra Miller who like caught some heat. I don't know what she said on, I don't know, fans, fans, you guys gotta chill. You really. And I know I'm probably not saying this to the right people because I know everyone listens to the show is awesome, level headed, amazing, and you guys get it. But I mean, listen like it's, it's Teffy and Sierra's job to just, you know, talk about it, play both sides, be the unbiased person and like fans, just. Guys, before you write your essay on how Love island is the definition of society, which, listen, we love unpacking, but like it's also just a goddamn TV show. And we don't know the conversations that like, we don't know the conversations that Sincere is having or that Melanie's having or that Trinity is having. They're all playing with a different deck of cards. And so like, let's just like, you know, kind of. And Sean kind of referenced that a little. He clearly was very careful because he has, I think he has just in the week that he was in that villa, learned a lot about just like, again, this is, it's heightened reality for our entertainment. And it was very entertaining. It was awesome. It was really great. Corbin was just like, what did he say? Like, oh my God, it's gonna get fiery in here.
- [77:27]
Sierra Miller
Yeah.
- [77:28]
Nick Viall
And I'm sure they're all amped up. You know, you got, you got Casey, no doubt being told, you deserve this, this, you deserve this.
- [77:35]
Sierra Miller
He even said, this isn't about Anaya, this is about me. Basically. He was like, I made this decision for me.
- [77:41]
Susie
Anaya ate down though.
- [77:43]
Nick Viall
I'm just saying, I don't think Casey up with that thought on his own.
- [77:48]
Susie
I don't know. But someone said that it was, we
- [77:50]
Sierra Miller
don't I think the thing is, like, we don't know if Casey came. We don't shot on his own. Right.
- [77:54]
Nick Viall
That's again, like, maybe, you know, but just there he guarantee you they all had conversations with producers about their feelings, and they definitely got some guidance. And you're right. In that world, at the end of the day, Casey is an adult man. He is in charge of what he's saying says. And, you know, we can critique and judge him in that world because it doesn't mean he has. All I'm saying is you can't discount the fact that in a world where, like, they really don't know what's going on, they are getting a lot of guidance. And I just think we should just, like, acknowledge that, like, to the point where, like, maybe, like, the reason, like, I just think you can't judge a person for how, like, completely. You might get a clue. You might get an idea. Yeah.
- [78:39]
Sierra Miller
Do you guys think. I'm. I'm curious your thoughts specifically, y' all who have been on reality tv, right? How much do you, like, do you think that when you are. When you're making these decisions, it's like, do you think fans are having a harder time understanding that it's TV now than they did when you guys. Or at least Bachelor Nation obviously is different than Love island for fans, but do you find that reality TV fans now have an have a understanding that things are more real than they actually are, than they used to, or.
- [79:20]
Nick Viall
I think, if I understand your question, I think it's a little bit of both, I think, again, and when I was my first time on the show, Instagram stories didn't exist. You had Twitter, you know, like, TikTok didn't exist. So there, you know, like, there just wasn't as much noise. I do think fans back then were a little bit more ignorant than they are now to like, how these shows work. And it was more like wwe, where you're like, is it real? And you're like, a lot of fans. There were some fans back then, like, thought that shit was live, you know what I'm saying?
- [79:49]
Kada
Even.
- [79:50]
Nick Viall
But on the flip side, now you do have all these platforms. Everyone is online. Everyone is like, you know, sharing their, like, very intense.
- [79:59]
Sierra Miller
But now you have, like, backseat producers instead of, like, a backseat quarterback.
- [80:03]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [80:03]
Sierra Miller
Or like a couch.
- [80:04]
Nick Viall
That's what I'm saying. You have so many more opinions, and it's online opinions. So I think more people in. In. In life today are more rational about reality tv, but online, it doesn't Feel that way because it's online, and back then, you didn't have the same type of intensity of online discourse that you have now.
- [80:21]
Sierra Miller
Yeah. And then, Sierra, what do you. How do you feel like you've been watching Love island, obviously, for, like, you've been watching all of the different time.
- [80:29]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [80:30]
Sierra Miller
You're kind of the Love island girlies.
- [80:32]
Kada
Oh, gee.
- [80:32]
Sierra Miller
Oh, gee. You been watching. You're watching uk. Like, are people watching the show differently now, do you think, as it's gotten to this point?
- [80:40]
Dan
See, I don't know.
- [80:41]
Kada
The.
- [80:41]
Dan
The thing that I like about Love island more so than a show that's obviously been filmed months in advance and then airing after the fact, is that I'm like, you kind of feel like you're keeping up with things in real time. So I also kind of think that the parasocial relationship is a lot more intense than it is like A Bachelor, where it's like, okay, I understand that this is happening over eight weeks, but it was also feeling filmed however many months ago, and especially if, heaven forbid, leaks or whatever happens. But where Love Island, I do feel like you feel like you're in it with them. So it's like, even then, like, I felt like an idiot. I defended Casey because I was just like, okay. Like, I know what it's like to be in a situation where I'm trying to make up with somebody and they're making it so difficult that. And it's like, you're not getting your point across to then be able to see a couple days later him be like, well, I gotta do this for me, and she's a grandma and all this stuff. And I, like, was like, you know what I mean? Like, you're just like, I. I was rooting for you, so you feel really in it. So I understand why the fans are so, like, passionate about it. But it's also kind of, again, to your point, it is a TV show for our entertainment. These people don't know what time day, and they don't know what you think of them. So screaming to the ether on their profile pages that they cannot check isn't solving or doing anything besides just causing more drama and making it harder for us to be able to have a show that's entertaining. And also, it kind of makes me feel. Feel like it makes the producers feel like they have to raise the stakes. Because I'm like, the thing with UK is that UK has been consistently.
- [82:00]
Kada
It's. It's.
- [82:01]
Dan
It's mellow in comparison. I would say USA is the feral cousin of Love island uk, because you don't see this much making out. Like, people are arguing about a kiss behind someone's back versus, like, hey, there was an orgy on two episodes ago. So, you know, it's like, it's. It's very interesting. Heightened stakes that I'm like, if we keep giving that to them, then the producers, I feel like, have to feel like they have to do more.
- [82:25]
Nick Viall
How did we feel about Melanie choosing Sincere and then laying into him?
- [82:32]
Sierra Miller
Awesome.
- [82:33]
Dan
I hear for it.
- [82:34]
Kada
I'm like, I wish I felt. I felt kind of annoyed, if I'm being honest. I mean, I think I saw it coming, but I just think that's gonna be them. I think some relationships, some people. People are just gonna keep having a cycle where they turn over like that
- [82:51]
Nick Viall
and there's no way they end up together.
- [82:54]
Kada
I don't.
- [82:54]
Ad Host
I don't know.
- [82:55]
Kada
Maybe.
- [82:56]
Nick Viall
I don't think they survive out of the villa because again, I have to assume, again, both Sincere and Melanie are making choices with information that we like. They don't have what we know kind of thing. Also, like, Melanie has demonstrated way too many examples like that when she was talking to a. Anaya, like, what an amazing friend.
- [83:17]
Kada
Amazing.
- [83:18]
Nick Viall
Absolutely. Gassing her up. I want to see Mel, like, and that's. It's such a. Like a perfect encapsulation of, like, we can't take our own advice, obviously, because, like, yeah, Melanie is not as emotionally invested in her. Relate Anaya's relationship with KC as she's invested in Sincere's right. Like, you wish you could give that same advice to yourself.
- [83:36]
Dan
Yeah, yeah.
- [83:37]
Nick Viall
That you would give to a friend. But Melanie has clearly demonstrated. She's aware that she is aware and she knows. Knows what it looks like to be valued and appreciated. And I think outside of this very controlled environment where, like, she has hope in her heart and she just, like. I think she's too emotionally, like, with it to, like, come out. See, like, when? Movie night. Oh, my God, I cannot wait.
- [84:03]
Kada
No, I think she's gonna stay. I think she's gonna stay depending on what she sees. Maybe not. I think she's going to stay regardless. But I. I mean, based on what I'm seeing so far, I don't see her walking away from Sincere. I just don't see it happening. I think they could last through the end, and I think that Sincere is going to be the one to call things off in the real world before Melanie would. But I hope not. I hope not too. But that's what I'm Seeing so far. And that's what I. That's.
- [84:29]
Nick Viall
I love and I quit. Like, and then she had another great line where she's like, I hate it when people use apologies for band aids.
- [84:36]
Dan
Yeah.
- [84:36]
Kada
Yes, Exactly.
- [84:37]
Nick Viall
That summed up Wes Wilson to a T. Yeah.
- [84:39]
Kada
Yes.
- [84:40]
Nick Viall
Like that. You know, that, that, that, that thing is like, why is it. Why does he keep saying I'm sorry? And why do I still want to punch him in the face? You know where it's just like, because it doesn't seem like they actually care or give a. And that has been sincere. Sincere is West Wilson.
- [84:53]
Sierra Miller
When you stab someone in the stomach and then put a band aid on it, it's not gonna do.
- [84:58]
Nick Viall
And then. And then sincere is just like, well, I don't know why other people are calling me manipulative.
- [85:02]
Sean Lowe
I'm like, yes.
- [85:03]
Nick Viall
I don't tell the whole. Literally, like, I guess that's what they're.
- [85:06]
Kada
That's the thing is I'm like, he's aware of what he's doing. She's sitting there experiencing it. And then she's like, so frustrated him. And then you see her and she's just like, yeah. And then she's like, I can't stay mad at him. And I'm like, you have to, though. You have to run away from this man.
- [85:19]
Susie
Kind of giving Kaylor.
- [85:20]
Dan
I kind of feel like, like, like Melanie choosing Sincere was insecurity personified. You know what I mean? Is it like you chose him because it's like you want to be chosen. He came back alone, you came back back alone. And now it gives the allowance to be like, okay, now I need to go off on you or whatever. Because that's the insecurity.
- [85:37]
Nick Viall
I mean, I do think she just really likes him. I think she, like, she just thinks he's charming and good looking and she sees all the good things. Like, everyone likes him in.
- [85:46]
Dan
Right. But I just have a feeling that, like, if he would have come back with someone, it would have been hell on earth in that villa popped off. So that's what I'm saying is that I'm like the insecurity of. Of I'm going to go into this solo even though I can't trust him. I've had every dude in this fucking villa tell me sincere has not been sincere behind my back. And then for her to still choose him to be like, oh, but he did choose me. So now I feel validated. So now here I'm going to unleash where I'm like, I don't know what the alternative would have been. But I'm just like to me it just felt like insecurity personified.
- [86:17]
Sierra Miller
I hope that once movie night happens. I'm glad that they stayed for TV purposes. Here's what I hope happens. I hope that they stay together until movie night and then movie night happens. Melanie's sees everything and we get a beautiful, beautiful dramatic moment of Melanie going absolutely scorched earth on sincere.
- [86:41]
Nick Viall
Because the thing is she's got to walk away then.
- [86:43]
Sierra Miller
And then she has to walk away.
- [86:46]
Dan
I have a feeling she's going to get sad, start crying and I think we're going to have like Amaya build her up and then she's going to pop off on secure and be like we are done.
- [86:54]
Sierra Miller
Yeah.
- [86:55]
Kada
And be like we are sincere other
- [86:57]
Sierra Miller
than and everyone's and that's like. And then she's gonna be a front runner for like winning Love Island.
- [87:02]
Nick Viall
Other than Trinity and Bryce, is there a couple you guys are actually rooting for?
- [87:05]
Dan
I'm Trinity and Bryce. All the way.
- [87:07]
Susie
All the way. I'm rooting for Anaya I think and I is gonna win.
- [87:10]
Kada
I don't care who she could pick up anybody after that
- [87:15]
Dan
happen last season with Amaya and Brian where I'm just like. But like that's like again the point in the fun of Love island is to watch a relationship.
- [87:23]
Susie
I don't know.
- [87:24]
Nick Viall
I think I know there's two so smart to be doing things this on moving this way.
- [87:30]
Sierra Miller
I think she got her heart broken.
- [87:31]
Susie
What I'm trying to say though is that Shonda rhymes written scene of her being like I chose you. When did I did this? I chose you.
- [87:37]
Sierra Miller
You didn't pick me.
- [87:38]
Susie
I think that single handedly won her the season and she deserves it. I'm sorry. Like I don't care who she's with. She can be by herself. I'm voting she's huge.
- [87:45]
Dan
I want her and Carl or Trinity or K. I'm so happy that he popped out of that box.
- [87:51]
Nick Viall
This is such a But it's the classic nice guys finish last. It's like you got y'.
- [87:56]
Sean Lowe
All.
- [87:56]
Nick Viall
Don't y' all say you want a respectful king and then respectful kings show up and you're just like give me the guy.
- [88:01]
Dan
And he was gorgeous. I mean he's back so he is gorgeous. But I was just like jacked. You know what I mean? And he's sweet.
- [88:08]
Sierra Miller
Where's he grumble thoughtful and smart.
- [88:11]
Susie
Wait, can we talk about Trinity for a second too?
- [88:14]
Sierra Miller
Yes.
- [88:14]
Susie
Homegirl. Eight down two.
- [88:16]
Sierra Miller
She Did TT
- [88:19]
Susie
girl, you do not enter the vote.
- [88:21]
Nick Viall
I guarantee those apologies are producer driven too.
- [88:23]
Kada
I don't think so.
- [88:24]
Dan
But I did appreciate them whether they were producing or not.
- [88:27]
Nick Viall
I'm not even taking it away from the people who did it. I'm just pointing out that these people are being guided. No doubt they saw the fan interactions, things got a little intense and they were like, hey, yo, like, he was guided. I think you should probably address in that part.
- [88:45]
Sierra Miller
You think Trinity was guided by a producer to. You think TT was guided into calling
- [88:49]
Nick Viall
Trinity a little girl?
- [88:50]
Dan
Not. End of saying again, there's a spectrum.
- [88:54]
Nick Viall
I guarantee you before they walked in, it's a lot of like, I, you know, as a host of it, you know, I, I don't do what Chris Harrison did, who was like, you know, in the, in the bathroom before AFR said, you better give me good tv. Which sounds like. And to a man. To a man. At the time I thought I had tons of power. But if someone asks me, I delve, I tell people like, hey, listen, your most vulnerable moment is your best moment. Like, don't be afraid to just speak your truth. Whatever your truth is. That is good advice. And you know, and I, I, and even if it's just that they're just being reminded that like, if don't be afraid to have your, your girls back. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's, it's shit like that. I don't think she was told what to say.
- [89:33]
Susie
I think she had her own back, not her girl's back.
- [89:35]
Nick Viall
But I'm saying whatever Trinity said was Trinity. Yeah, but I'm all, I'm just saying, like, if you're asking about how producers are involved there before that whole recoupling happened, there were just a shit ton of conversations of like, of guidance.
- [89:48]
Susie
Sure. Yeah. I just think k down with the wrong way to enter the villa bit.
- [89:52]
Sierra Miller
Wrong way to enter the village.
- [89:53]
Nick Viall
I'm a little sad. I Che, I loved Che. I thought Che is so hot.
- [89:56]
Kada
So hot.
- [89:57]
Nick Viall
And like the energy that her. Listen, I, if, if, if Zach seems like a really sweet guy and I know a lot of people are annoyed by him, but he seems like, he seems like a, a decent man. And I don't want to criticize a guy who, like, at the end of the day seems like a sweet guy.
- [90:12]
Sierra Miller
We're having empathy.
- [90:12]
Nick Viall
I just can't get past the Kada does not seem, seem like a woman who's going to date someone whose hero is Zayn Malik and wants his to watch Spider Man. Movies with his girlfriend.
- [90:22]
Sierra Miller
Well, I just.
- [90:23]
Nick Viall
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe. Maybe she loves a little nerd.
- [90:25]
Sierra Miller
Here's my. Here's my question. So it was actually, I was talking to some of my friends about this, and I. To be honest, the majority of my male friends is that guy. Yeah. And they love Spider Man. They love, like, it's. I'm. I'm friends with a bunch of. Of like, film boys. You know what I mean? And I was talking to, like, my beautiful, beautiful girls that are like, either also friends with them or dating them or whatever. And they just like that. They're, like, sweet. Like, I know so many baddies that are with that. Yeah. Which is true. Well, they're not always harmless.
- [91:00]
Nick Viall
They're not always harmless.
- [91:02]
Sierra Miller
They pretend they're harmless and then they use that to, like, manipulate you. And then they're. They're too scared. And this is where I want to get to. It is because Zach goes into this whole, like, I love you thing. Joking, joking, sir.
- [91:15]
Dan
You do not.
- [91:16]
Kada
With your chest.
- [91:17]
Nick Viall
You do not. To say I love you in that moment in bed and the next day say, it was a joke.
- [91:22]
Dan
She should know that. Yeah. And he kind of made it out. Like, she should know that. Like, she knows it was a joke. In his interview. And it's like he said multiple times,
- [91:30]
Sierra Miller
I don't think that's the problem with
- [91:32]
Dan
a guy like that.
- [91:32]
Sierra Miller
And that's what you're saying is he's too immature. He's going to use everything as a joke. Because. Because it's like.
- [91:37]
Nick Viall
But I. I just say that. I just think that's immaturity, not like a. That's like, not malice. That's not.
- [91:42]
Sierra Miller
It's. No, no, I don't think it's malice. I just mean, like, I think it's.
- [91:45]
Nick Viall
But Kada seems anything but immature.
- [91:47]
Sierra Miller
Exactly.
- [91:48]
Nick Viall
And I'm just like, I think she's drink. You know, again, maybe I don't want to discount there. Nothing irritated me more than, like, fans telling me who I'm supposed to have feelings for. You know what I'm saying? Where it's just like, you guys don't fucking know. They're like, oh, we love so and so. It's like, good for you. I couldn't stand him. You know, so what do we know? But it is.
- [92:09]
Dan
I'm just.
- [92:09]
Nick Viall
It just does, like, K and Zach don't make sense to me.
- [92:12]
Ad Host
Yeah.
- [92:12]
Dan
I was like, for me, Zach's just a little too immature. He plays too many games for me to be like, oh, I think he's a nice guy. Has anybody seen Obsession?
- [92:20]
Sierra Miller
Yes.
- [92:20]
Dan
Movie. Okay. Because that's the whole point of Obsession is kind of breaking down the nice guy trope where it's just like, what your intentions are just because you're too mousy or because you don't. You're not for forthcoming with, like, how you actually feel about things. Like, you would do things. The back doorway being like, oh, well,
- [92:37]
Kada
maybe if I bring her flowers or
- [92:38]
Dan
if I get her coffee, she'll notice me and she'll. You know what I mean? And then if you don't get that attention, you're upset about it, and now I'm the bad guy because I didn't give you the attention, even though you were laying down all this groundwork.
- [92:48]
Sierra Miller
To be honest, the. The movie Obsession really, like, really makes me think about Love island because you have so many of these guys that have an inability. And it's not even just Love Island. I think it is. I think it is my generation, and I honestly think it's something I do too. I think there is this fear of actually saying how you feel about something because of rejection you don't want to get.
- [93:09]
Dan
Rejection would be so humiliating.
- [93:10]
Sierra Miller
As if rejection would be so humiliating.
- [93:12]
Kada
But.
- [93:13]
Sierra Miller
But the reason it happens is because getting rejected to. I think someone my age is not just getting rejected in person. It's getting rejected online as well. You feel like. You feel like you're being watched all the time and that your social circle is, like, extended outside of just a group of friends. So it's scary to get rejected because then it's like, oh, my God, like, as a guy, I like, did I say something to make that girl uncomfortable? Or as a girl, it's like, oh, my God, like, am I just the biggest fool? And then, whatever. So then you have this idea that you can make somebody know without actually having to take a risk and tell them. And I think that's the problem with, like, with Zach is like, he's trying to do everything in his power.
- [93:53]
Dan
See, it's just like the entitlement of, like, oh, we get in bed, she turns and goes to bed. And it's like, because you're entitled to sex. Is that what you're saying? Because you built her up.
- [94:02]
Nick Viall
There is like, I don't know if Casey realized I was.
- [94:04]
Sierra Miller
Instead of actually just say how you feel.
- [94:05]
Nick Viall
It comes like, I. You know, it's fat. I was thinking about this, and maybe I don't. We don't have time for a Love island essay right now. But, like, we know that Gen Z is having less sex than ever before. But it's interesting that, you know, but we also have hookup culture going on, and it seems like young men, like, who are having less and less sex and detaching from relationships at, like, a historical rate. Also, like, it's like they cosplay sex now. You know what I'm saying? They don't really understand.
- [94:37]
Dan
They've never been with someone. They don't understand how they feel.
- [94:40]
Nick Viall
Like the exchange of sex is, is, is what love is all about. And honestly, I feel like that's what you're seeing in Casey. I don't. I, I. It also comes across as a little, like, icky, where it's almost like that, like, he's objectifying Women are down to sex. But I, I think, I think it's more comes down to, like, this younger generation, like, they grew up, they're having less real intimate relationships with people and having more, like, relationships with porn.
- [95:09]
Dan
Also, like, rom coms are about, like, that's what I'm saying. Where I'm like, movies that I grew up on are now all of a sudden getting, like, resurfaced because it's their 25th anniversary or whatever. And I'm like, so it's like you have these people who, who find it already hard to interact with other human beings. And then it's like you, you throw in this whole intimacy, and now we're throwing back in the nice guy that, like, chases down and, and we're back to yearning, and we want these, these men to. So it's like you're getting so many conflicting ideas because you guys don't know how to be intimate with somebody. You guys don't know how to grow that relationship. But also now the influence isn't. We're gonna be spot on and talk about the fact that no one's having sex. We're just gonna bring back the stuff that, that taught our generation how to be in romantic relationships with no background.
- [95:52]
Nick Viall
Question about Keda and Zach, obviously, we know that his love interest was removed from the island. Again, we don't know what didn't make the edit. But why isn't Zach just being, Hey, I want to be straight up with you. I missed you the whole way. But just like, I just want you to know that this person who I was talking to was removed. Removed. I was coming back solo anyways. But, like, I think it's, it, it's like he's hiding something by not bringing it up. And I think if she finds out and I don't know if she's gonna find out because obviously the reasons that she was removed, if the show has clearly chosen to just like move on. Yeah, yeah. And not really get into it as to the why.
- [96:38]
Sierra Miller
But we don't know what they tell Cass when they do.
- [96:40]
Nick Viall
We don't know. Right. But I mean the fact that like she was clearly just removed and like,
- [96:45]
Kada
so he's like, I'm a good boy.
- [96:47]
Ad Host
I'm a good boy.
- [96:48]
Susie
But he.
- [96:49]
Nick Viall
What we're seeing is him making it seem like. But she might know. She might know. I don't know. But like if every time I think about it, if she, if he doesn't bring it up, you know, and she finds out that it was. She was removed as opposed and he didn't have the choice to bring her back. I wonder if that's going to feel like decada. Like a lie.
- [97:09]
Kada
They show the removal at movie night,
- [97:11]
Nick Viall
say they're not going to. You know what I'm saying?
- [97:14]
Kada
And she's like, wait, what?
- [97:16]
Sierra Miller
Hey, so remember I'm on snap.
- [97:19]
Kada
Yeah, exactly.
- [97:20]
Dan
And genuinely like, this is no shade to permit. Cuz I do like her. But if I have to watch Corbin and permit to have a conversation one more time, it's like watching two last brain cells rubbed together. You're hot.
- [97:32]
Nick Viall
No, you're hot.
- [97:33]
Sierra Miller
Okay.
- [97:33]
Nick Viall
It's like from dating the girl version of perfect. It's okay, we'll go back to earth cuz we're hot together. He's perfect. Pretty straightforward.
- [97:41]
Dan
You know, I think there's not much there.
- [97:43]
Sierra Miller
I think they're good for each other.
- [97:44]
Nick Viall
How do we know that? I don't think, I don't think you
- [97:47]
Sean Lowe
can judge a book by its cover like that.
- [97:49]
Sierra Miller
I think Corb GPT.
- [97:50]
Dan
Oh my God. Okay, I'm let that one go.
- [97:53]
Nick Viall
I don't know.
- [97:54]
Sierra Miller
I think he's sweet. Except for the Kenzie though.
- [97:57]
Kada
Oh yeah, I know. F. That.
- [97:58]
Dan
The fact that he threw a cake in Kenzie's face, I was like, but.
- [98:01]
Nick Viall
And he, he apologized for that. He's like, you know what? That was up. I don't think he realized. I think again, like if I throw
- [98:06]
Dan
a plate at the wall and it breaks, I can say sorry. Does it put the, the plate back together? You had an option to do anyone else and you chose the girl that you mugged off. That's crazy work.
- [98:16]
Nick Viall
Honestly, like I thought other than Megan the stallion being there and her being
- [98:20]
Dan
like, love her, love her, love her, love her.
- [98:23]
Nick Viall
I'm just like the competitions at this point.
- [98:25]
Kada
I know let's say I didn't really care.
- [98:27]
Dan
It just felt like, why are we so emphasizing every fetish in the book? Like, I'm just, like, sitting on cakes. That's what we're doing here.
- [98:35]
Nick Viall
Yes. The constant cake eater reference.
- [98:37]
Sierra Miller
It's kind of like a little like,
- [98:38]
Dan
Dan, do you remember?
- [98:39]
Sierra Miller
This is a crazy comparison. And I don't mean this in, like, that way, but like, the Dan Schneider kind of thing that they used to do on, like, Nickelodeon.
- [98:47]
Dan
With the foot.
- [98:48]
Sierra Miller
With the foot. It's very similar in that vein.
- [98:50]
Dan
Well, I'm like, I. I just.
- [98:51]
Sierra Miller
They're doing on Love Island.
- [98:52]
Dan
My jaw dropped. I was in Santa Barbara. We're watching the. Whatever. The Heat Challenge or whatever. And it's just, like, tickled, like. And I was like, why are these the categories? And the option is to suck on somebody's foot. Like, I don't need to see that. And it was just like, the end one was just a straight up orgy with clothes on. And I was just like, I don't know. I'm like, I get it. They're 20 something, consenting adults, blah, blah, blah. But I'm just like, I don't know. Their parents are watching this.
- [99:16]
Kada
Like, I cannot imagine.
- [99:18]
Dan
No, I would mortify. Because if I want to stay in the villa, I have to participate. And do you remember who was. Was it Bella Baldasha that was like, that wouldn't make out with people? Yeah, it was like, of her morals. And I was like. And I.
- [99:30]
Nick Viall
She got the boot.
- [99:31]
Dan
And she got the boot. But it's like, I respect that because I'm like, damn, if my grandma had to watch me just, like, grinding on a bunch of random people, I. I would be like, I'm not coming home for Thanksgiving, for Christmas.
- [99:41]
Sierra Miller
I don't know what I was reading or watching or something that described Love island as the Garden of Eden. And I was like, that's fucking funny.
- [99:48]
Nick Viall
I feel like Trinity and are gonna make zillions of dollars at, like, a comic book convention because they look like they should be the lead characters of, like, the Twilight.
- [99:59]
Kada
Twilight. They're beautiful.
- [100:03]
Sierra Miller
They're so hot.
- [100:04]
Kada
They're so hot.
- [100:04]
Nick Viall
But, like, and together, they just, like, they're. I can just picture they look like.
- [100:08]
Susie
Like there's. There's also a ton of people driving by Ace Hardware and being like, trinity girl will never let you back here. Oh, I know. She used to work at Ace Hardware.
- [100:15]
Nick Viall
I guess that makes me love her even more.
- [100:16]
Susie
Me too.
- [100:17]
Nick Viall
Also, I saw. I saw. I saw a picture of her wearing A Packer jersey. Is she a pack? Is she where she.
- [100:24]
Susie
Like, I don't know that answer I got.
- [100:26]
Nick Viall
You could have.
- [100:27]
Dan
I didn't even watch the show, but I saw that picture, and that was my number one. You are winning.
- [100:31]
Nick Viall
She's a Packer fan.
- [100:32]
Sierra Miller
Trinity Love island packers fan.
- [100:36]
Kada
Yeah. She's so cute. And, yeah, I noticed people said, like, he. He ditched the. The bangs and he's souping it back now, and it's such a good look. Yeah, it's really working for her.
- [100:47]
Nick Viall
Do you think Trinity told.
- [100:48]
Sierra Miller
I think the Packer. The packers posted something with Trinity in it. Yeah. Sorry.
- [100:54]
Kada
Damn. Okay. Well, can we talk? This is my personal gripe.
- [100:57]
Sierra Miller
Yes.
- [100:58]
Kada
Casey and T.T. at the fire pit, laughing when Anaya's having her panic attack.
- [101:03]
Susie
What am I saying? It was a shonda rhyme scene.
- [101:05]
Kada
Yes. At the.
- [101:06]
Susie
I'm in the background, sick to my stomach.
- [101:09]
Kada
I was like, this. That's the greatest sin to me of everything. Like, I. I really don't have a problem with Casey finding a new connection. I really don't. Like.
- [101:16]
Nick Viall
Yeah, sucks for potential chance editing.
- [101:19]
Kada
Yeah, that's true. That's true. But that's.
- [101:21]
Nick Viall
I mean, reaction shots are the easiest thing to take out of context. Or maybe he deserves it. I don't know. I'm just.
- [101:27]
Kada
Yeah, that's a fair point. Regardless, we know that he went from the recoupling to the cake without having a conversation with her because she said, you don't even. You didn't even have a conversation with me. And he's like, it's been one day. I just think of everything that's happened. Him not coming to her and being like, I care about you. Everything I've said to you is true. Everything I see in you is you're beautiful. Everything I've said to you, I don't take back. I just found a better connection to not have that respect for her. That was the biggest mistake of anybody all season, in my opinion. I just thought it was so disrespectful.
- [101:59]
Nick Viall
I am glad, though, he didn't come back, like, kind of being like, hey, I still want to explore, though.
- [102:05]
Kada
I'm glad he made a decision, set her free.
- [102:06]
Nick Viall
But like, oh, my God, but you're right, he didn't. He didn't give her the. The. It just the respect, I guess.
- [102:12]
Kada
Just respect.
- [102:13]
Dan
He also kind of doubled down with the. At the competition, you know what I mean? Where I was just like, where even Corbin was like, dude, just take it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, at that point, show A little humility, show a little grace. That it's like, hey, I hurt you. I deserve like. And he's.
- [102:26]
Nick Viall
The way that they're.
- [102:26]
Ad Host
And it's.
- [102:27]
Nick Viall
Villa girls were like, the.
- [102:28]
Susie
The.
- [102:29]
Nick Viall
I was like, why they keep saying, rise up to KC when. And it's on his. It's his tattoo. Like, the. It's a pretty good dig. It's a little petty, but it's pretty.
- [102:39]
Sierra Miller
Sometimes I. I am so pro. Being petty in those moments.
- [102:43]
Nick Viall
No, it's pretty good.
- [102:44]
Sierra Miller
But also, it's like, for Casey to have the conversations he's had with Anaya about, like, respecting her as, like, who she is, like, in herself and to then completely do the opposite of that.
- [102:57]
Dan
But as I said, it feels like it wasn't genuine, because then it's like he keeps saying it as, like, a defense. He's like, well, I was building her up. I was building my victorious.
- [103:05]
Sierra Miller
Now it's like, now it's conditional.
- [103:09]
Kada
Exactly.
- [103:10]
Nick Viall
I think his best crime was.
- [103:11]
Sierra Miller
Yeah.
- [103:12]
Nick Viall
Anaya made it clear that when. That she, you know, that she was locked into kc and maybe she's open to exploring because that's the villa. But, like, this is the relationship she wanted invest in. And KC was more like, I deserve to be able to explore, and you're my best choice so far. But he kept making Anaya think that she. That he felt like she felt. And that was what was disrespectful and misleading is that it's not because he wanted to explore or didn't get a chance to explore, is that he downplayed how much he wanted to explore versus how much that she communicated how much she wanted to explore. And he allowed her to have more faith in him than she deserved to have. Because if he went into the Villa or Casa Amor being like, listen, I just. Be honest with you. I really. I need to test our relationship. I'm gonna go ham at Casa Amor, and I think you should too. And let's just see if we end up together at the other side. Then Anaya would have had the freedom to move a little bit more. Like, you know, with Carl.
- [104:10]
Sierra Miller
Do you guys think that there is a real fear in actively admitting how much you actively want things? Because I was thinking about this. I was at my roommate's soccer game, and my roommate won. Shout out, Congrats, championship. But as I was. We were leaving, someone from the other team was like, I don't know why they care so much. It was just like, they care way too much about a rec soccer league.
- [104:32]
Susie
That's crazy.
- [104:33]
Sierra Miller
And it was like he only said that because he lost. And I'm like, I, I, I think sometimes we pretend and like that's why like Casey pretending he like didn't really want to explore. And it's like why should like investing
- [104:46]
Nick Viall
in or you know, like taking a chance or betting on yourself or taking a risk, you know?
- [104:51]
Sierra Miller
And it's like I feel like in Love island they're stuck between this like having to care so much about something like performatively caring about things versus like finding the things they actually care about.
- [105:01]
Dan
I do think societally though that I'm like that's kind of the program is that it's like you're supposed to be fearful or to, to doubt yourself so that you don't keep trying new things. That it's like if I expect to fail, if I'm so afraid of looking stupid or fail failing, why would I even attempt to try where it's just like, okay, why would I be honest with my feelings and look stupid? Or if you're if in Casey's perspective, if he's hyper aware of the audience or whatever, he doesn't want to look like an being like hey, I'm gonna go make out with every single person. But it's like even then within your actions, just because you didn't tell the one person that it actually mattered to and still acted that way, right. You still look like an so it's like it's better to be forthcoming with how you feel and being honest. Honest in a situation, especially if you're not 100 committed to that person, let her know you're not 100 committed to that Person. And then you wouldn't have a five girls screaming at you when you're back at a fire pit.
- [105:53]
Kada
Right?
- [105:53]
Dan
But again it's like honesty and bravery and like all that stuff it just like I feel like is so second tier because it's like be fearful, be stay in the box. Don't be too, too big, don't be too honest, don't be too this. And I'm just like, oh my God, speak your truth. And then the last thing anybody can say about about you. She wasn't honest. You know what I mean? Like I don't know, just well we gotta go.
- [106:15]
Nick Viall
We didn't get a chance to talk about the finale of Rhode Island Housewives. We will on Thursday's episode of Reality Recap. So tune back in for that. We have a jam packed episode on Thursday. I hopeful we'll have another Islander, maybe Corey.
- [106:32]
Susie
We'll see.
- [106:33]
Nick Viall
I don't know, but. Or maybe there'll be, I don't know, maybe there's a dumping tonight, who knows. But we certainly hope to have another islander on to learn about their experience. We also have some of the nannies from Million Dollar Nanny on Thursday's episode of Reality Recap. Reality Recap on Thursday is going to be absolutely jam packed as always. Thank you to our guest Sean from Love Island. Justice for Peter Weber. I don't know if anyone's going to care. I really, I. This is my test on humanity. I don't know. I hope no human deserved what Peter Weber got and everyone who goes on reality TV is still a human man or woman. Justice for Peter Weber. See you next time.
- [107:10]
Sean Lowe
Bye bye.
- [107:24]
Nick Viall
The Val House is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing a budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your your bills. Try that progressive.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates prices and coverage match limited by state law not available in all states.