E1155 - He's My Boyfriend. Why Do I Feel Like His Mom? | Ask Nick

Summary

The Viall Files E1155 – "He's My Boyfriend. Why Do I Feel Like His Mom?" | Ask Nick

Date: July 13, 2026
Host: Nick Viall (with Natalie Joy & The Household)
Theme: Relationship role imbalances, dating in your 30s, and the struggle to let go of independence in new family dynamics.

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Episode Overview

This "Ask Nick" edition of The Viall Files tackles three listener dilemmas centered on relationships where emotional, logistical, or practical imbalances threaten personal happiness or fulfillment. Through detailed, empathetic advice, Nick and the panel dig into the complexities of modern dating, cohabitation, and growing families—exploring when to try harder and when to draw firmer boundaries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Hannah: Dating Fatigue & Analysis Paralysis in Your 30s

[Starts at 02:31]

• Background:
  Hannah, 31, describes being single for six years, hitting the apps hard, being proactive (approaching men in person), and still feeling chronically unlucky in love.

• Nick's Key Insights:

  • Self-Narrative Matters:
    "I don't know what you tell yourself, but that is something that's not nothing. And I don't think you're doing yourself any good by eliminating that..." (07:01)
    • Nick reminds Hannah she's not "truly" been single the entire time; it's important not to downplay past relationships as failures just to fit a narrative.
  • The Middle Ground of Intentionality:
    "You do a little bit of both. Be intentional about your choices...but also just let life happen. Try to have some fun." (36:21)
    • Over-focusing on the goal of finding a partner can kill joy and spontaneity.
  • Let Conversations ‘Breathe’:
    • Nick points out Hannah’s tendency towards type-A "interview mode” on dates, which may inhibit authentic connection.
    • "Just dial it back 30%... There's a difference between being interested and interrogating." (25:13)
  • Dating Apps Are Not the Whole Picture:
    • Tight age/height/occupation filters shrink the pool and might worsen dating fatigue.

• Advice for Hannah:

  • Shift from Binary Thinking:
    Don’t treat every date as a pass/fail test; allow for more relaxed, organic experiences.
  • Expand Social Opportunities:
    Take up hobbies ("volleyball, tennis") for enjoyment, not just as hunting grounds for partners.
  • Be Present and Vulnerable:
    Acknowledge and voice nervousness; reduce pressure to "perform" on dates.
  • Expand Age Range on Apps:
    "You're looking for a needle in the haystack...If you would go out with a 40-year-old if you met him at a bar, then why not on the apps?" (44:00)

Notable Quote:
"You are showing up a little like high strung, a little too binary. It's like you're either going to be good or you're bad. I don't have time to, like, I need to know immediately if I'm going to like you right away. This is a test, not an experience." – Nick (41:30)

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2. Caroline: Mourning Independence While Creating a New Family

[Starts at 47:07]

• Background:
  Caroline, 32, is pregnant with her boyfriend of under a year, who has been a close friend for 8 years. She’s already a single mother of a three-year-old, proud of her independent journey and apprehensive about giving up autonomy by moving in with her partner.

• Nick's Key Insights:

  • Normalizing Grief for the Life You’re Leaving:
    "Trying to make sure nothing changes is probably a little short sighted." (58:15)
  • It’s Okay to Mourn the Previous Chapter:
    "Having this child and this relationship is going to change a period of your time that was very meaningful to you." (57:28)
  • Communicate & Compromise Gradually:
    No need to force a premature move-in; the new co-parent dynamic can unfold gradually as comfort grows.
  • Let Your Partner Show Up:
    Recognize the fear of letting someone in, but also the value of allowing a supportive partner to share the load.

• Advice for Caroline:

  • You're Not Selfish:
    Friends or family may not get it, but letting go is not selfishness—it's an adjustment, and that’s okay.
  • Let Practical Solutions Emerge After Baby Arrives:
    "Can we just have the kid and then figure it out?" (60:54)
  • Honoring What You’ve Built:
    "Don't discount what you've been able to do...think about your wins, not the challenges." (64:08)

Notable Quote:
"I want to be very cognizant of a father coming into this role...because I had to do it by myself. But he wants to be involved, and he needs to be." – Caroline (65:05)
"The answer isn’t 'you’re just selfish'...It’s about recognizing why you’re feeling what you’re feeling and then trying to find a path forward." – Nick (65:30)

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3. Vanessa: Am I Dating a Man Child? Relationship Responsibility Overload

[Starts at 68:17]

• Background:
  Vanessa, 22, is dating a 27-year-old man and living together for over a year. She works full-time, goes to grad school, and handles 80–100% of chores, household logistics, and finances. Her boyfriend works long hours but does little outside of his job, expecting her to manage their lives and logistics.

• Nick's Key Insights:

  • Imbalance of Emotional & Practical Labor:
    "He is not showing up for the mundane, annoying things of life... it's clear how you take care of him, it's unclear how he takes care of you." (91:30)
  • "Playing House" Without Real Commitment:
    Taking on the role of wife (chores, meals, bills) without engagement/marriage leaves Vanessa vulnerable and unfulfilled.
  • Red Flags:
    • Financial irresponsibility (past unpaid loan, car accident, garnished wages)
    • Enmeshed with mother (lived with her post-divorce, lacking adulthood skills)
    • Uses Vanessa’s resources (her car, her management of bills)
  • False Equivalence:
    Vanessa views his hard work as "supporting" her, but it's just splitting costs with no additional contribution to their partnership.

• Advice for Vanessa:

  • Have a Direct Conversation:
    "He needs to grow up, you know, he needs to get better at money. Or you have to get better at telling him what you need, and not feel bad." (103:00)
  • Own Your Autonomy:
    "If you were single, you’d have less work. Your rent would be doable—don’t stay for logistics alone."
  • Stop Making Excuses for Him:
    "He’s really good at telling you what he needs... You have the right to be equally clear." (101:16)
  • Prioritize Self-Care:
    Explore social supports and consider what life could look like without the additional burden of an adult partner who is not contributing.

Notable Quotes:
"You keep saying the word chores...Most 22-year-olds don’t say 'chores' these days..." – Nick (87:34)
"He’s a bit of a boy, and you are taking care of him in a way that he is not taking care of you." – Nick (104:33)
"He seems like a nice boy who cares about you, and that's nice, but you need... a marriage needs more than that, and so does a family." – Nick (112:04)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• Nick on Dating App Realities:
  "On dating apps... especially for the ladies out there, you’re all fighting over the same five guys, you know, especially if you have a preference..." (31:00)
• Nick on Conversation Flow vs. Quizzing:
  "There's a little bit of a dance...there's a difference between being inquisitive and making people feel like they're on the defensive." (28:30)
• Hannah’s Honest Dating Fatigue:
  "I feel like I could be anyone across the table…They want to just chat about themselves, talk at me. I ask a lot of questions. I'm a very good question asker." (14:14)
• Nick on the Burden of Doing It All:
  "It’s clear how you take care of him, it’s unclear how he takes care of you." (91:30)
• Vanessa’s Realization:
  "I feel like I am the man and the woman." (90:09)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Caller | Core Topic | |-----------|----------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:31 | Hannah | Dating fatigue, role of narratives, “interviewing” on dates | | 36:21 | Nick advice to Hannah | Finding a middle ground in dating approach | | 47:08 | Caroline | Single motherhood, new pregnancy, moving in dilemma | | 55:24 | Nick on Change | The grief of leaving independence for partnership | | 68:17 | Vanessa | Relationship imbalances, man-child partner, chores & finances | | 87:34 | Nick on “Chores” | The unsexy labor of adult relationships | | 103:00 | Nick’s direct advice | Drawing boundaries & having hard conversations | | 112:04 | Nick on “loving the idea” | Building a future vs. loving the present |

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Takeaway Themes

• Balance vs. Burnout:
  Whether single and dating or in a partnership, relentless striving (to find love or be the “perfect” partner) often leads to fatigue, not fulfillment.
• The Narrative We Tell Ourselves:
  Your self-concept deeply colors relationship experience—celebrate wins, acknowledge obstacles, but don’t get stuck in defeatist loops.
• Letting Someone In Is Scary but Necessary:
  Especially for those who have thrived alone, it’s both hard and essential to let a new partner join your routine in honest, equal ways.
• Commitment Counts:
  Taking on major relationship responsibilities without the framework of commitment leaves room for imbalances and resentment.
• Self-Care First:
  Throughout, Nick encourages listeners (especially the women taking on most of the labor) to trust themselves, assert their needs, and know that being “selfish” is just healthy boundary setting.

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For Listeners Who Haven't Tuned In

This episode is a candid, thoughtful look at navigating partnership roles, especially when carrying most of the emotional or physical load. Nick Viall calls out the unsexy but crucial details of adult relationships, directly explores listeners' real-life situations, and consistently reiterates the necessity of balance, communication, and not losing yourself in the process.

If you’ve ever felt worn out by dating, afraid to give up your independence, or like you’re running a household for two by yourself—this episode is for you.

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Transcript

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[Vanessa]

Quick, hurry, place the order.

[Nick]

It gives you the peace of mind that every parent wants with their family. Also, you can discover really tasty things. Like, for example, as you know, I am obsessively trying to reduce my sugar intake, especially when it comes to the drinks that I have. I have always loved a good ice tea, but the problem with iced teas is they're filled with sugar. But because of Instacart, you can find great products. Like, it's called Half Day. It's like a probiotic iced tea in a can with like 3 grams of sugar. It's delicious. And I only would have discovered it because of Instacart.

[Instacart Narrator]

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[Nick]

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[Vanessa]

Okay, that's another, like, great thing that you're bringing up because he's actually not here right now. So Sunday he left for a work trip and he won't be back till Friday. And if he was telling me like, oh, like it might fall through, and I was like, no, please, please go. Not because I hate him being here, because I'm like, I get to worry just about my laundry. I don't have to make sure his uniforms are cle. I only have to worry about feeding myself and also my Car. Like, I let him use my car, but now I get to, like, drive to and from work, and it's so nice, and I feel a little more relaxed, but it's brought up these emotions of, like, oh, God, does that mean I don't love him or don't want to be with him? Because I'm happy that he's gone for a week.

[Nick]

How happy?

[Vanessa]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

How's it going?

[Hannah]

Good. My name's Hannah.

[Nick]

Hi, Hannah.

[Caroline]

Hi.

[Hannah]

Hi.

[Nick]

How old are you?

[Hannah]

I am 31.

[Nick]

How can I help?

[Hannah]

So I have been single for. Let's call it the last six years.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Hannah]

I have approached men at the bars. I've left my number on phone number or on. On napkins. I've swiped on hinge. I've joined new hobbies. I have moved states, and I'm still single. So my question is, when do you just admit defeat for dating in your 30s?

[Nick]

It's a bit. It's a bit dramatic, don't you think?

[Hannah]

A little bit. It doesn't feel dramatic.

[Nick]

I know. And I don't want to downplay how you're feeling right now. I do want to remind you that you are only 31. You look like a very beautiful person. In our short chat. You seem like you have a nice demeanor and energy to you. What. I mean, so maybe it just hasn't worked out for you. I'm assuming you are picky, and I'm assuming that you haven't spent the next past six years so desperate that you were like, I will literally date anyone. And yet you still remain single. I would guess that's not the case. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Probably close on the first part of that.

[Nick]

That you're picky, that you're. You have stand. You have standards. Yeah. That you're. There's a lot of people, most people you are not into, and the handful of people that you have been curious about haven't, you know, haven't worked out or reciprocated and et cetera, et cetera. Right. Yeah, something like that.

[Vanessa]

Yep.

[Caroline]

Yep. That's fair.

[Nick]

So. So that. That's. It's important to acknowledge.

[Hannah]

It is. You know, where. Where I'm getting stuck is take away the dating apps, because that's a whole different.

[Vanessa]

All right.

[Hannah]

The whole different animal in the wild. I am pretty good at shooting my shot. If I see a handsome gentleman at the bar at dinner, I will walk up, I will leave my phone number. I'll have the server or somebody like, hey, that girl. You know, whatever. And it's led me to some Frogs.

[Nick]

Can you elaborate?

[Hannah]

There was one that I shot my shot at the bar and we went on a few dates and it turned out he was posted in the Are we dating the same guy? Facebook page and he had two full time girlfriends at the same time that we were going on our date.

[Nick]

So some bad luck, right? Like you, how some bad pickers. Well, that's not a, that's just bad luck. That's not a bad picker, right? I mean, this was a random person you saw out in the wild. You thought they were cute. You shot your shot. He, you know, and that was just bad luck because you ended up shooting your shot with someone who just like, loved, loved the, you know, probably loved that aspect of dating, which is the excitement of, you know, a person like, you know, doing the thing where you approach them and, you know, forgot to mention he had some girlfriends. And, but that's just bad luck, right? What is it? How does that have to do with being a bad picker?

[Hannah]

Maybe it's not a bad picker, but I don't know how much bad luck a person can attract.

[Nick]

Okay, give me another example.

[Hannah]

I went on a date with a gentleman and I asked him what his weekend plans were and he just started sobbing like, like, like huffing and puffing because he had just broken up with his girlfriend and they were supposed to travel this weekend together and they no longer were doing that. And so I, I had to console the guy.

[Nick]

This is on a date.

[Hannah]

This was on our first date, less than 30 minutes into the date. And that next week I went on a date with a different gentleman who went on the date a week, the same week his cousin was murdered and needed to like, talk through this murder with me in real time. And I just, again, I, I, I'm trying all the different avenues and I seem to find bad luck in every, every way.

[Nick]

And in these past six years, you haven't had any good dates?

[Hannah]

I had one relationship when I was 29. We were long distance. I moved states to be with him and we broke up three months after I moved here. Great guy, just not a person for me.

[Nick]

And how long are you dating for?

[Hannah]

We dated for a year. Okay, so we did, we did fun weekends, but everyday life, it didn't work out.

[Nick]

I'm sure if you listen to the show, you hear me talk about like, you know, controlling our thoughts and the narratives we have in our head, et cetera, et cetera, and how much those like, weigh into how we see ourselves and we see the world. And you, you, you know, you're you're like, I've been single for the past six years. I'm like, oh shit, okay. And then like in between that story, you're like, no, I had a boyfriend for a year two years ago. So I, I don't know what you tell yourself, but like, that is something that's not nothing. And I don't think you're doing yourself any good by eliminating that is a way to maybe feel sorry for yourself or to paint a less accurate picture than the success that you are, aren't having when it comes to dating. I mean, like, I think we can already acknowledge that you've had some bad luck and you have some pretty crazy stories that might make for like even a good, like, you know, rom com some, you know, if you, if ever wanted to write a, a movie or whatever, or certainly if nothing else, when you do find your person, this will be great conversation to friends and whatever. But in the meantime, right now, I don't know if, if, if making a frustrating situation worse by like painting a picture in your head and when you talk about it to your friends sound like you should give up. At 31 years old, I think where

[Hannah]

I am stuck is I met him through a friend. So it was a, hey, we have a friend you should meet. I don't have many friends that have single friends left just with the age that we're at, they're dating or married. And so I'm pulling in the five years I had before him in the last two years trying the same things. And I don't want, selfishly, I don't want to go on a five year single streak again, wanting kids and marriage and all of that fun stuff. And so I don't know what to do differently.

[Nick]

I mean, my guess is, I mean, we can keep peeling back layers, but my guess is there's nothing specifically you have to do differently. I don't think there's any magic pill or silver bullet or whatever you want to call it. My guess is you've had, again, you've had some bad luck. You might need to take a break. If anything, right now it sounds like your attitude towards dating and your perception of yourself is a little not positive. And so maybe you just need to take a little bit of a, a mental break from it. You're certainly feeling the fatigue of dating and I think that matters.

[Hannah]

It does matter. I hit this year very strong, January, February, and I haven't dated in the last three months because of that exact reason. I wasn't having fun. I traveled a little bit this summer. I just got home and I have the itch again, but I don't. I want to have fun with it, I think, but I, and I want to do something differently because isn't that the definition of being insane? Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome?

[Nick]

So, like, in your mind again, let me ask you this. Like, in your mind, okay, you've taken some time off in your mind, what are your, like, how have you been thinking about how to get back out there, so to speak.

[Hannah]

I joined volleyball.

[Nick]

Okay, great.

[Hannah]

And I joined tennis.

[Nick]

Love it.

[Hannah]

But what I don't like is I feel like that is an objective now every time I leave the house of. This could be the time I pass Nick on the sidewalk, that I pass a handsome man in the grocery store.

[Nick]

That's what you need to not do, right? So, like, that's, that's the thing. And it's, and it is, it is the struggle, right? Because it is on your mind. And I can tell you it's just such a huge, it's such a huge difference. And I don't like, it really is. I've been you, I've been that person. I have seen friends be that person. I, I, I have a buddy who had a bad breakup. It was. And then did the thing where he was just kind of enjoyed the single life. And his brother owned a bar or nightclub and really. And he lived, he had like a condo on the street where there's like, it was like a really perfect situation for a, a bachelor. And then that got old and he run at a girlfriend and he was like, just struggling with dating. And it's just like every time we would go out, it's like that he, we'd walk into a bar and be like, there's no one here. Let's go to a different bar. It's like, just chill, man. You know, just because he was, that's all he cared about. He couldn't just be with his friends. He couldn't just enjoy you. You have to be pre, you know, like, not to be cliche, but, you know, people can sense that in people. You know, people can sense your anxiousness, anxiety, that you're looking around, that you're not, that you're trying too hard, you know, that you, you know, and I've been that person. Go play volleyball. Go enjoy tennis. Go meet some friends. Definitely be open and curious about who you might meet. But, like, what's more possible then you join a volleyball league and either someone on your team or the team across has your future. Husband on the other side is that maybe you have an interaction, maybe you meet a friend, and maybe something happens where they're all like, well, let's all grab a drink, Ashworth. And then maybe, you know what I'm saying, like a chain of events things, and you really have to. And I think the people who really struck, like, what you're going through right now and have that mindset of like, all right, well, is today going to be the day? Get so hyper focused on that they don't let life happen and they don't let those chain of events. They try to dictate those chain of events, as opposed to just letting them play out and trying to just enjoy the moment. I know it's easier said than done, but I think you're more than capable of. Of doing that. You just. You really have to kind of be like, Hannah, like, lock it the up. You know? You know, you don't seem like a naturally anxious person. You don't seem like you're, you know, like you're incapable of just going out and having a good time with friends. And I think that really has to be the mindset because, like, right now you're doing this kind of binary. I'm in dating. I'm like, all right, I'm back in dating. And then you're just like. Like you're so locked in about, like you're looking for a husband. And then you're like, I'm fatigued, so I'm like, I'm gonna take some time off for myself and I'm gonna go travel and I'm gonna lock. I'm. I'm saying no to dating. And I think you have to find a middle ground where it's just like, I'm out there and I'm meeting people and I'm open. But, like, when you step outside and you go out to volleyball, you go out to the bars, just try to have some fun, you know, that does matter. You know, it really makes a big difference.

[Hannah]

That's fair. When I have met people through whatever avenue, I would say eight times out of ten, the reason I'm not interested in the second or third or fourth date always seems to come back to the same thing. And I haven't heard a lot of other people with this frustration. So I don't know if I am the problem or too picky. I feel. Last week I went on a date and I feel like I could be anyone across the table from them because they want to just chat about themselves, talk at me. I ask a lot of questions. I'm a very good question asker. I had a date once. Tell me. He felt like he was being interviewed. So I've kept that in the back of my mind. I've tried to chill out about that.

[Nick]

That wasn't a compliment.

[Hannah]

No, I felt. I felt bad. I mean, who likes to be in an interview?

[Instacart Narrator]

But I don't.

[Hannah]

I haven't been on dates where I feel that energy back of like, the curiosity of like, I want to get to know you, Let me ask you questions.

[Vanessa]

And that.

[Hannah]

That happens to me 80% of the time.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And I don't know, am I. Am I zeroing in on that too much or have we heard people.

[Nick]

I mean. No, I. I hear people say that all the time. The best way I can answer this question. I don't know if this is going to be helpful, but if my wife. I was pretty quiet on our first date. I didn't talk at all. Now, there was some variables at play. Where I was. We kind of met up in a very kind of adventurous way, and I was pretty guarded. There was something there between us and we had a good time, but it wasn't the riveting conversations. And it certainly wasn't my intense interest in getting to know her. And it certainly wasn't my ability to make the conversation seamless and effortless and fun. And, you know, there was this kind of something there. Now, I'm not saying how we went about dating and getting together and getting married is like the blueprint by any stretch of the imagination, but I guess my point is to say that, like, I'm getting the sense from you. And I think there's a lot of people out there where, like, are you like, kind of a type A personality? A little bit like.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. And I see this not just with type A, but, like, with type A person. Like, you know, you're. You. You've. You've probably read all the books or you've seen things online and all the how to's and you're just like, it all makes sense. And it's just like paint by numbers. And then now you're trying to apply what you learned and you're just like, what the fuck? You know, like, guys are supposed to ask me questions. If they don't ask me questions, they're not interested. And like, well, if they're not interested, like, why should I go on a second date? And I just think dating is hard and difficult. And I think your first date is never. You're not meeting them, you're meeting Their representative. And that's what it's like. It's tough. It's tough. It's why you don't marry someone after the first date or lock into a relationship even when it's great. Because usually really charming people, your West Wilson's of the world. I don't know if you're watching Summer House. Like, they're good first daters. Like, you know, like, he's Every first date Wes Wilson has, it's awesome. You know, they're like, wow, what a charmer. Especially if he's like, I'm gonna get her to like me, you know, if that's his goal. If his goal is to make sure that she wants a second date. Effortless for a guy like Wes Wilson, right? When I would date back in the day, I was like, well, she may like me, she may not, but it's my job to see if I like her. And with that, there are problems. Probably a lot of women who went on first date with me who was like, he sucks. He didn't ask me any questions. And I'm thinking, I just, I. I showed up, realized I wasn't that into them pretty quickly. Kind of like on an interview where you're like, right away you're like, nah, I like this person's right for the job.

[Hannah]

How did you decide you weren't into them or didn't like them without asking them any questions?

[Nick]

Just vibes, you know, sometimes vibes, right.

[Hannah]

You.

[Nick]

I'm right. You meet people and there's a vibe. Now doesn't mean you're always right or wrong, you know, but yeah, there's. There's definitely something you feel or not feel. There's a general curiosity, but like, that alone isn't like, again, enough. It's that balance, right? Like, it's, you know, people are always saying they're looking for that spark, and that spark is, you know, like the whole Internet has, has pointed out and talked about that's kind of your nervous system reacting to a feeling event. You know, either nervousness and inadequacy, whatever, but that will. Will trigger your ego and potentially chase things that aren't necessarily healthy for you. On the flip side, no one wants, no one wants to like, you know, unless, you know, unless your culture is down for like arranged marriages, you want to, you want to feel a little excitement and a fun. You do want to feel a little bit of like, I don't know what it is about this person, but I'm drawn to them. But you have to then allow yourself to also get to know them and, and not just like, you know, you, you need more than. I don't know why I like them. I just do. But in the. I don't know why I like them is mostly because they're confusing and they, you know, they're. You were trying to figure them out and yada, yada, yada. And lucky for my wife, turns out I'm, I'm a great guy, you know? You know, and once I started talking, it worked out. I'm kidding. But yeah, like, I do think if you admitting that you're a type A personality, then I would, I would encourage you to go on second and third dates that you would not otherwise go on. A lot of guys might be, especially if you're the talker and you're the interviewer, so to speak. It can be a little nerve wracking. In fact, you might not realize how much lack of oxygen you are giving in a dating situation for someone to ask you questions. Or you're just making it really easy for them, you know, because like, finding common ground is hard on interviews. And here you are showing up with a bunch of questions. You're like, all right, great, well, I'll just keep answering your questions.

[Hannah]

Well, on Wednesday, I did not interview and I let him talk for two hours straight. And I, I consciously had the thought of, I probably normally wouldn't go on a second date, but I enjoyed dinner and I was attracted to him. So I let's go on a second date and maybe, you know, let's chalk it up to nerves. And he was rambling. He unmatched me and blocked my phone number that evening following the date, after the first date. So now I'm nervous that the first date, yeah, and he doesn't owe me anything. So I'm not upset about being ghosted.

[Nick]

The blocking's aggressive. This is like on a dating app on Hinge.

[Hannah]

Now you can see if people unmatch you, it will say name unmatched. And the date went fine. So now I'm nervous. I don't, I guess I don't know what type of vibe I'm giving off.

[Nick]

Listen, that's the tough part about dating apps is that like, listen, I don't know, Rejection is never fun. And here's a situation I'm pretty typical in dating where you weren't even like that into the guy. I mean, you are trying to like challenge yourself to make different moves. So you told yourself, sure, I'll go on a second date with this guy. And then you found out that he rejected you, which is just such a fucking like mind fuck and ego trip. And, you know, it sucks. It sucks. There's no way around it. But at the same time, I know that you are capable of seeing past that. Like, there's a little bit of a mental exercise you have to do, but at this stage of life, I think, you know, there's a quick like, oh, that's annoying. But like, you know, if you were 21, 22 and just getting out and dating you, you could let that almost justifiably really affect your day or your state of mind and turn it into something it's not. But at this stage it's more of like, fuck, that's annoying. But you should also like, know that like, okay, I don't know what the reason is. It doesn't really matter. There could be a million reasons. You didn't even think that date was that great. His version is probably like, she didn't ask me any questions.

[Hannah]

I've come far enough. I don't take the. I mean, rejection always sucks, but I don't, I don't take it super personally or beat myself up about it.

[Nick]

In that day where you were letting him talk is are you going from one extreme to another or are you finding that middle ground where he start. He led the conversation. He was talking about him. But were there a lot of like, oh, that's interesting, tell me more. Like, oh, like, why did you know? I don't know what. I don't know what he was talking about. Probably work or family. But were there follow up questions of at least you asking questions? Did you find opportunities to relate his story to yourself in a way that felt like a conversation or were you just letting him talk?

[Hannah]

I tried a couple times to relate, to show off myself a little bit. Like, here's something cool about me that relates and he talked over me to then bring it back to something he wanted to share. And I asked the questions and it was natural flow. Our conversation in that one didn't feel like an interview because he was good at talking and storytelling and animation. So I didn't, I didn't necessarily feel like. Tell me about a time with him that's just kind of in general, some feedback I've gotten.

[Nick]

What was the feedback you've gotten?

[Hannah]

Oh, about being the interviewer more than once. Just the once.

[Nick]

Oh, okay.

[Hannah]

But I have in the back of my mind now.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, it's just one person. Does it feel true?

[Hannah]

I ask a ton of questions, but I don't hate that about myself.

[Nick]

Like What? Like, okay, you're on a date. Like, what. Give me an example.

[Hannah]

Like, how was your morning?

[Nick]

My morning was good.

[Hannah]

What did you have for breakfast?

[Nick]

I didn't have breakfast today. Coffee. I had coffee.

[Hannah]

How do you like your coffee?

[Nick]

I like it with cream.

[Ad Voice]

Really?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Just black. Black coffee?

[Nick]

Yeah. It's kind of, you know, not for me. I wish I could, because obviously, I don't think the dairy helps, but hot and iced you, like, always, always hot. Even if it's 99 degrees.

[Vanessa]

And then I get, like.

[Hannah]

I can just.

[Vanessa]

I.

[Hannah]

The reason I don't hate it is I love knowing, Like, I think it leads to really fun, unique conversations about people.

[Nick]

It does. But, like, so, like, if that's a date and I agree with you, right? Like, I can. I literally talk for a living, right? Like, yeah, that's some version of what we just did is kind of podcast. You know, you're just. You're trying to ask questions. You're trying to see where the conversation goes. Like, yes. And, you know, improv, like, stuff. But off the jump, it can feel a little like. I don't know, man. Like, I had coffee. I don't know. Like, you know, I do think there is a little bit of a dance, you know, I think there's a little bit of. Are you jumping right in?

[Hannah]

No, that was. That was more to get to the point here.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caroline]

All right.

[Hannah]

But I. I do that. That's not abnormal for me.

[Nick]

I think it's just a little bit of, like, it's just a little bit of. Maybe when you're doing that, just like, I don't know, dial it back, like, 30%.

[Hannah]

It sounds like just in general, I got to dial everything back.

[Nick]

I don't know about that.

[Hannah]

Be a little chill.

[Nick]

But if you are, like, if all of a sudden you're this, like, you know, let's say they are, you know. Oh, what'd you order? Oh, a gin. Gin on the. Gin and rocks. Oh, what kind of gin do you drink? You know, do you, like. Are you. Have you always been in the gin? Have you ever tried it with vodka? Do you. Sometimes, you know, like, that gets a little, like, you know, a little.

[Hannah]

I don't do that. I promise.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Vanessa]

All right.

[Hannah]

Not to that extent, but I do feel like when I ask people, I mean, we're 30s, where we're working, that's 90% of the week. I can get. I can get down a rabbit hole of, like, trying to understand what they do. If they're having stories about their coworkers, like, Understanding the stage.

[Nick]

When was the last time you had a conversation on a date where you felt like, I'm, I'm, I'm into this conversation?

[Hannah]

January.

[Nick]

And what was that conversation about?

[Hannah]

Just life.

[Nick]

Okay, what about how so?

[Hannah]

I, I liked the guy. I think we went on five dates in a month or two months.

[Nick]

Do you remember any of these conversations?

[Hannah]

We talked about his divorce.

[Nick]

And what part about that felt more interesting rather than therapy?

[Hannah]

It was just nice to hear real. Have like an emotional, emotionally depth conversation.

[Nick]

Okay, that makes sense. And are you able to have those conversations when you're asking them about, like, coffee or their drink?

[Vanessa]

No.

[Nick]

Do you see, you know, like, the, the difference? Like, I love to talk and I love to, I love to talk about ideas and like, sometimes, like, part of dating, right, is to find, like, the person you're like, I don't know.

[Hannah]

I was.

[Nick]

Do you ever think about this? I don't know. And a lot of times when you have a conversation like that, the person on the other side of the table might be like, no, you know, like, they might not give you anything, right? But if you are, for example, on a date with the person, you're just like, asking about their drink and you're just kind of like trying to like, make conversation, as people say, and you're giving a lot of rapid fire questions to, like, things that are like, I don't know, man, I just wanted to drink as opposed to like, you know, like, that's why sometimes it's fun to like, talk. Like, I don't know, like, what's your, like, you know, playing games like this or that, which are simple and light and silly and stupid, right? And it's just like you're, you know, not that you people want to be quizzed about their top five favorite movies, but sometimes talking about, like, what you're watching or shows that you're watching, or like, maybe, you know, maybe there's a. I don't know if there's a reality TV fan and maybe he's like, oh, maybe that, you know, you, you might get, oh, my girlfriend loved a Housewives and I hated it. And it's like drama or whatever. Or maybe you both watched Severance, you know, or something and you found that fascinating. But that can lead to, like, the ideas of things, you know, and you kind of get in the weeds and have. And it's unserious. There's no debate. There's no like, right or wrong. There's just like, it's kind of. And then you can learn a little bit about a person through, like, how they think and how they feel. And that can get interesting. And then sometimes maybe someone says something that you're like, I love that answer. That's a great answer. And I'm sharing. I'm assuming that guy that you went on a date with said some version of some things where you were like, I loved that answer. That was a great answer. And it made.

[Caroline]

It.

[Nick]

It made you feel like he was, you know, a little introspective and could communicate some of the things that he would think about. Right. And. And you're not going to get that when you're quizzing them on. On. On, like, you know, like, you're really. You drink. You put cream in your coffee. Do you ever drink black? It's like, whoa, fuck. Like, you know, like, what. What the fuck's wrong with my coffee? You know? You know what I'm saying? Like, so all of a sudden you're being inquisitive, and then listen, like, most people aren sensitive and. But you know what I'm saying? Like, I think there is just a little bit of a dance and there's some nuance and there's a difference between the two.

[Hannah]

There's been a handful of times, yes, I agree with that, where I pull back and we just sit there in silence because they don't know how to hold a conversation. And again, maybe that's just the bad luck.

[Nick]

Now, when you're doing that, are you like, Are you like, all right, I'm talking too much. I'm gonna stop talking now and see what happens. Maybe I would see how that doesn't work.

[Instacart Narrator]

Well, I don't.

[Hannah]

I don't think about when to do it.

[Nick]

Are you sure?

[Hannah]

It just.

[Nick]

It sounds like you do.

[Hannah]

Well, maybe I do. I don't have the conscious thought of. When he's done talking, I'm not going to say anything back.

[Nick]

Okay, well, listen, sometimes there's some awkward moments. You ever just, like, give her a call out then? You ever call it out? I don't know.

[Hannah]

I think I just drink until someone says something.

[Nick]

Did you ever. Have you ever, like, talked about, like, man, isn't dating hard just. Shit, this is hard, you know? Like, do you ever commiserate with your fellow daters about the challenges of conversations and the dance? I don't know.

[Hannah]

I've tried. Where I get. Where I get cautious to open that can of worms is at this point, like, we all have a past. Some men love to take the. The open can and run with it. We get down holes about their Exes,

[Nick]

which, yeah, we don't.

[Hannah]

We just don't need to talk about on a first date. I'm fine to, like, share horror stories of first dates and hinge and the dating world in your 30s, but I don't bring it up because I don't necessarily want to get down to past conversation at that point.

[Nick]

Who are you dating? A specific age, rage, age range online.

[Hannah]

I have it set to a very small radius of 29 to 34.

[Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Hannah]

But I will admit I'm very picky online because it just feels like an extra level of superficial in the wild. I feel like I have a more open mind because I've met them through a mutual interest or avenue.

[Nick]

If you aren't feeling like you're having luck with that, that very narrow. I just also think dating apps are just literally not designed. You people have found their partners, you can find success on there. I think you just got to be very, very careful about measuring success from online dating because it's very easy to feel fatigued. I don't know how tall you are and I don't know your height preferences with men. And I don't, you know, sounds like just context clues. You're a working professional and you know, like, listen, it just, you know, on dating apps, especially for the ladies out there, you're all fighting over the same five guys, you know, especially if you have like a preference of over 6 foot and a certain earning potential. And, you know, I'm looking for a guy in finance, you know, six foot, you know what I'm saying? Like, but like, like, you know, and if you're in a major metropolitan area of some kind of. Yeah, you're, you're. And if you're limiting your, your age range, you are literally, you're fighting over the same, like, not five guys, but same 5% of guys. I would take it with a grain of salt that, you know, but good news is you're not limiting your, your dating experience to just the apps. But the question is, are you, Are

[Caroline]

you,

[Nick]

Are you overweighing how it's affecting your mindset about how the success you are having or not having? I mean, big picture wise, like, just to be clear, you're only 31. You seem like you have a lot going for you. I know you're frustrated with how things have gone. I understand that. I can say you're only 31 and you can call back with like, I don't have as much time as you had at 31, etc. Etc. If you want to have kids, I Understand that, but that you're still pretty. You're still young, you know, And I just don't know if giving up, there's probably, like, there's maybe nothing you have to do or that you're doing wrong. And we. And that's to say we all can make adjustments and tweaks if, you know, you're a type A personality and you can acknowledge that that is a certain kind of person, and you maybe have to just. Yeah, dial it back a little bit. My wife and I, we balance out each other so well. I mean, we got. I got really lucky with.

[Caroline]

With.

[Nick]

With her, obviously, in a lot of aspects. But it seems like naturally, you know, we're both like, you know, we. We both like to go out, and Natalie's way more extroverted than I am, but, like, we're both homebodies, and we both, like, need to recharge at home, and that's really. And so now, as a married couple, we like to recharge together, which is most of our quality time, which is great. There's certain things, like, I will hate doing, you know, like. But we. I don't know. I can't. I can't even get it. But we balance each other out, and I do think that matters. And I think if you're two. Both type A people, you have to find other ways in which you're balancing each other out. Because I could see how, like, it's just a lot of friction of

[Ad Voice]

type.

[Nick]

You know, listen, I'm not saying go out there and find a type B person. It sounds like you've probably organically have. Have been drawn to that. And it seems. And it makes a lot of sense. I think the risk of you dating a type B is you probably felt like a lot of people's therapist at first. You probably give a sense of, like, confidence and assureness that if you meet a type B in a transitional period, they might use as an opportunity to, you know, vent to you, open up to you, crying your shoulder, you know, things like that. I could see you being really attracted to a type A personality for a period of time only to, like, get really competitive with them and not. Or argue. You know, they're just like. Or you just both have different plans that work for you guys. I think step one is don't make a bad situation worse. Stop. You know, you haven't been single for six years. You've. In fact, you have. You have a lot more dating success than other people who have felt the same thing that you're feeling now. You know, and you moved for a guy and it didn't work out. You don't seem upset about it. You're still in this city. Right? Like, you don't regret moving. It sounds like. No, that was a win. A literal win. Yeah. So. And that was a boyfriend you had in between the six years you claimed to have been single. That changed your life for the better.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So we need, like, I think more than anything. You're. You're. You're the narrative you tell yourself makes a big difference. Difference. And that was just like, you know, how you got to where you are.

[Hannah]

That's fair.

[Nick]

And I think I. I think for a type A personality, being honest with yourself as much about your wins as your losses is important. But if you're. Because if you're being really hard on yourself, I think you can discount your wins and, And. And overweight your losses. And it seems like that's what you're

[Hannah]

doing a little bit to put a bow on things. Do I just let life come my way next or it's a numbers game? Because those in my head, those are two very different games.

[Nick]

It is, but your struggle is. I think it sounds like you have a hard time finding the middle ground. Do I do this or do. Do I do that? Like, the trick is you do a little bit of both, right? You. You be intentional about your choices. You look for the red flags. You be open to the idea that, like, it sometimes people a couple times to, like, show who they really are. You try to bring enough oxygen and space to a conversation that makes people feel comfortable. Know that. But like, you, it might be your turn on any individual date to show up and be the one who drives the conversation, you know, and just like, I think sometimes maybe you're. What you're not doing is just, like, sitting back in the date and just, you know, I'm sure you're probably doing the thing I've talked about. Like, you're evaluating the date in real time, and people can sense that.

[Hannah]

Definitely.

[Nick]

Do you watch Love Island?

[Hannah]

I'm not watching this season right now.

[Nick]

Sierra's co host on After Sun, Teffy. She was someone who told me because I was like, I don't know. We were having a conversation. And she's a very blunt and honest person. I don't know. We were talking about how people react to us, and I was like, yeah, sometimes people find me a certain way or, like, intimidating or whatever. And she's like. Because you're constantly analyzing them. And I. It's true. I just have One of those brains where I have to be self aware not to do that because my default is to just. I'm very. I'm an observant person. When I'm quiet and in my head and my introverted self comes out in a crowd, that is what I'm doing. It's like how I keep my brain busy. That can make people very self conscious.

[Hannah]

I can also be too honest and direct.

[Nick]

Sure.

[Hannah]

I can relate kind of the bluntness as well.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And that scares people off.

[Nick]

That doesn't mean you have to change who you are. It's just, it's honestly it's, it's try, it's. It's being aware of that in the moment and try to pull it back a little bit. But you're not trying to change yourself. You are who you are. You want to find people who, who fuck with that. You know, you want to find the person who is intrigued by your directness, who eventually is going to find it obnoxious but doesn't right now. And that. And, but, but, and then. And they have the self confidence and the, and the ability to like, you know, challenge you. Right. Push back. Right. And like that's. But at the end of the day, you don't want to water yourself down so much that people don't know who you're dating. You should, you should definitely read the substack I'm dropping tomorrow. It's called Am I the problem?

[Hannah]

Shameless Plug. Awesome. Well, I appreciate it.

[Nick]

Yeah. It doesn't seem like you're doing anything wrong. Overall, I think you're. It sounds like you're pretty hard on yourself. It sounds like this is taking longer than you expected based on what you think you bring to the table. And it's probably very accurate. But like with. Again with those high standards and those high expectations, the challenge that most people you know, like, you know, like someone like Sierra, the whole world is telling her how amazing she is and how she can get any person she wants and how like, oh my God, the world should worship the ground that you're. And all true. You know, but like that does not make her finding the person that makes her feel safe, seen and heard easier because like she's not looking for anyone. She's looking for one person and she wants that thing to be special and the longer and, and sure, she's picky and she has high standards and blah blah, blah, blah, blah. And that can get very frustrating for someone in her shoes. So if there's any part of you that like again, maybe has Family members who think, what's, you know, why have you found someone? You have all the, you know, you have it all. Your total package. I'm like, maybe you just need to take a breath, you know, remind yourself that you're only 31 and make some small tweaks. But, and, and more importantly, you probably, like all of us could be just more present on the first dates. You could try to analyze the first dates a lot less when you're on them. If you feel yourself talking a lot, clock it in the middle of the date and be like, I'm talking, you know, what I'm doing all the time. You know, not, not in a way that feels like you're fucking up and I'm carrying this date. But like, you know what, I'm almost offer some vulnerability. You know what, I, I talk a lot when I'm a little nervous, you know, what about you? You know, call that out, right? And if they're doing all the talking, don't kind of sarcastically be like, do you want to get to know me? Like, maybe just offer, I don't know, try to find that, that middle, middle ground. But you also are allowed to be like, I'm not feeling it, you know, but try. And if you can, in the moment, just to like, you know, the West Wilson of the world who can just be amazing first daters. There's something to be said about those people who are really good at just making sure the other person has a good time and they're not worried about analyzing anything. They're just good at, they want to have fun. Like, I'm just, I'm going to have fun. And, and that is attractive and charming. So maybe just try to go have fun. You can go home and analyze that date when it's done. I think more than anything, that'll, that'll go a long way. For, for the more I'm finding out about you, it's just like the more I'm, I'm thinking, like, you're just, you're, you're just a little too hardcore and you're a little too intentional. And add that to the frustrations you've been experiencing with dating and, and you're making it harder on yourself than it needs to be. You're showing up a little like high strung, a little like just, you know, binary, you know, it's like you're either going to be good or you're bad. Like, I don't have time to, like, I need to know immediately if I'm going to like you right away. This is a test, not an experience. You know, this is. And I think you need to pull back from all of that.

[Caroline]

That's fair.

[Hannah]

That's a good assessment.

[Nick]

Well, hopefully this was helpful but like you're going to be fine, you know,

[Hannah]

like just, I'm just eager.

[Nick]

But this is good. But that's good.

[Hannah]

No, that's good advice.

[Nick]

Listen, you're, you're a confident person. You have a lot going for you. What you're probably not doing a good job about is showing that you're not showing that unbothered. Like I don't need anyone. I have everything in my life but a man. But like you are, the, the part that you are showing up is I have everything in my life but a man. So I really need a man. You know, like, you know, it's like you don't make that part so, so obvious and don't feel like you are also like I just, you know, everything else is perfect. I don't, you know, trying to convince yourself that you don't need someone just it's again, it's all easier said than done. Go have fun, play volleyball, play tennis. It is not about meeting a guy. It is about having an experience. You never know where that can go. There's a domino effect on meeting people. I met my wife because I asked him, Aseus at a Whole Foods to take a photo of me in a grocery store parking lot. You know, and then things just happened. You just never know. And for fun maybe just expand that

[Hannah]

eight date range to younger or to older.

[Nick]

I think it's just too narrow. It's within four years. I mean unless you're just like, I don't know. I have no interest in dating a 40 year old then I'm not here to sell you on dating 4 year olds but I do think men in general like are mature slower than women. I do think people in general have gotten worse at dating and more self centered. And I think you know, the way we kind of what our expectations are of people in society. I think some people figure it out and I think a lot of people don't these days. And so you are shopping in a pool with you know, the type of person that you're looking for is finite in any age group that in any age group you're looking for a certain type of person. I don't know what that, you know, specifics but like you have a person you're looking for and that person probably has some emotional maturity and has maybe been through, has certainly had some life experiences. So you're not like teaching them how to be a man or a dater, but not the type of life experiences where they need a therapist. You know, these are some things you're looking for. Right. And there's going to be a lot of 29 and 34 year olds who are like, you're, you're, you're going to meet a lot of guys who like, I are like, I just don't know what I want to do with my life. And there just might be a 40 year old who, you know, at 40s kind of figured it out. I don't know. And to whatever degree the dating apps are playing into your frustration, you're just narrowing your focus. And if you would go out with a four year old, if you met him at a bar, then why, why not, why not expand that search to on the dating apps? Because you are looking for a needle in the haystack with whatever, whatever your filters look like. You're still looking for a needle in the haystack.

[Hannah]

I just need to stop overthinking all of it.

[Nick]

Sure. Yeah. Welcome to the club.

[Hannah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

If nothing else, the fact that you are aware that you're overthinking means that you can like, occasionally check in and say, stop it. You know, and I spent a lot of time talking about our wasted energy, but I'm in my head thinking about the things I shouldn't be thinking about. So like, you know, it's.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, but knowing is half the battle.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Hopefully this is helpful, but very helpful. Yeah, just chill out. You're going to be okay.

[Hannah]

Just chill out. I appreciate it. Thank you.

[Nick]

All right, good luck. Keep us posted.

[Hannah]

Hopefully I have good news in the next couple of months.

[Vanessa]

I appreciate it.

[Hannah]

Thank you.

[Nick]

All right, take care. All right, bye.

[Caroline]

Bye.

[Hannah]

Bye.

[Nick]

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[Nick]

What's up everybody? Don't forget that all Vile Files plus content is ad free. Plus for all you asknique listeners out there. Your update specials are ready waiting for you. I know you are very interested on the follow up calls. What has happened to these people after they heard my advice? Did it help them? Did it hurt them? Has our life changed? Well, you can find out on update plus and you can get update plus behind vi files plus. So go to viles.com to sign up. You will be glad that you did. How's it going?

[Vanessa]

Hi.

[Caroline]

It's going good. How are you?

[Hannah]

Good.

[Nick]

What's your name?

[Caroline]

My name is Caroline. I am 32 and I need help.

[Nick]

Okay, what can I help you out with?

[Caroline]

I am looking for advice on if I should move in with my boyfriend or not. Even though I am not ready. But we are expecting a baby.

[Instacart Narrator]

Oh.

[Nick]

Well, congratulations.

[Caroline]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Okay, so this very interesting. How I'm guessing the pregnancy was like a surprise. Like that wasn't like you guys were. You guys weren't trying.

[Caroline]

We weren't trying, no.

[Nick]

How long you been together?

[Caroline]

Just under a year. We've been really good friends for about eight years, off and on, in and out of each other's lives. I have a three year old so we lost touch for a couple years. But the past year has been great. He's a great role model. He stepped in, he's helped, he's been phenomenal. And we live separately, but we are pregnant and we need to figure out what we're going to do. Okay.

[Nick]

It was very interesting. There's a lot of layers here.

[Caroline]

Yeah. I kind of side with you on the whole moving in thing, but this changes things a little bit. So I'm really excited to hear your perspective.

[Nick]

It does? Yeah. Well, you know, you already are a parent, so what does that dynamic look like for you?

[Caroline]

I've been a single parent from day one.

[Vanessa]

Okay.

[Caroline]

My son came home to my one bedroom apartment with me and you know, I've had a really great past three years. I'm so blessed for the way everything has played out. I've been able to work from home. I found a new job and raise my son. And I'm really proud of everything I've done completely on my own from day one. That's given me a lot of pride and helped my ego and kind of built me up from what could have been really heartbreaking. Like a really heartbreaking time in my life. And I don't know how I would have gotten through all of that if I didn't have my son. And that wasn't my priority. So that really helped me having to do it all by myself, just kind of accomplish that and see that. And I have a lot of pride in all of that. And I bought a house and I've done a lot of really amazing things in the past three years. And I'm not ready to let go of this season of it being just me and him and doing this on our own.

[Nick]

Interesting. Where's dad? Where's. Where's. Where's dad? In the, in the picture for the. You said you're. Does. Is he in the picture at all? Is that a sensitive topic?

[Vanessa]

What's going on there?

[Caroline]

Intermittently, when he feels like it, two hours every ten days or so. So.

[Vanessa]

So he had a lot of help.

[Nick]

He like, exists technically.

[Caroline]

He's every other weekend. Hey, can I have him for a couple hours?

[Nick]

Okay. Interesting. And how do you feel about that?

[Caroline]

It's not ideal, but it also is ideal.

[Ad Voice]

Right.

[Caroline]

I know I can depend on me. I know I can get things done. And that's the only way I've known how to do it for three years. And I know what I'm. What getting there. So I think it's not great for my son, but like every night I get to put my baby to bed, I get to feed him every meal, I get to experience every holiday. I don't have to give up anything and. And pry a little selfish with that time, for sure.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I literally cannot imagine having to share that time. So. Yeah, I don't think there's a co parenting situation that's perfect. But yours is fairly ideal given the fact that like you're in the driver's seat, it seems like. And you've made the. It sounds like you've made more than most. The most of your situation the past couple years and like you said, done a lot of things. Not only you not only survived, but you've succeeded in a way that must feel very empowering and good. So prior to getting pregnant with the friend, new boyfriend, what did that. What did that relationship look like?

[Caroline]

We've always just been friends, really good friends in the beginning and then obviously lost touch for a couple years. But about a year ago, we kind of just reconnected and it was pretty casual, I'd say throughout the summer. Last summer. I don't even think it's been a year really that we've been kind of back together. But when I bought my house in December, he's been, you know, all hands on deck. He's helping me renovate, and he's got his own house. He lives 10 minutes down the road. But we kind of been building this with the thought, like, hey, three to four years, this will be a home. We eventually start a family. And potentially, because mine is a little larger than his, and I was very transparent, I'm a three to five year plan on doing anything like that. And this has kind of shifted all of that.

[Nick]

He has no kids.

[Caroline]

No kids. But from the moment we found out, he was very much like, all right, cool, so I'm going to move in. And I'm like, wait, I don't know that I want that yet. So I know it's very unrealistic.

[Nick]

So what is.

[Instacart Narrator]

What is.

[Nick]

What does ideal look like for you?

[Caroline]

I mean, I think he lives 10 minutes down the road. I don't know why there's not a world where we can still make sure this is what we want to do before we're moving in together and bringing him and he has pets into my home with my son and I.

[Nick]

But right now, you guys can afford both places, correct?

[Caroline]

Yeah. We're thinking about, like, Airbnb or renting out his home. I'm selling. It's not really an option right now. Okay.

[Nick]

What conversations have you had with them?

[Caroline]

I've actually said, you know, I'm not really wanting to talk about it until, you know, I'm in the second trimester. It's still really early because I'm afraid to talk about it because I don't want to offend him. I don't want to put him in, like, limbo. I felt like when I was pregnant with my son, my whole nine months, I was like, I don't know where I'm gonna live. I don't know what my relationship's gonna do. I don't know how my life is gonna look. It was a very uneasy thing for me. In a way, I'm doing that same thing to him right now, and that's super unfair, and I feel really bad about it.

[Nick]

I've been talking to you for 10 minutes, and I empathize with your experience that you had with your first child. Has Desi heard that at all? Does he know how much you've overcome and what you've accomplished and what that meant to you personally, doing this on your own? He does, yeah. Great. Have you not had the conversation where you're like, listen, obviously we didn't Expect this. Overall, you know, I'm. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm excited, you know? Like, it sounds like you guys are planning on having this kid together. And, like, can't you say to him, like, I guess I'm struggling with this mentally. If for no other reason that, like, what I did with, I don't know, your firstborn. Call him Dylan. I'm a little Dylan. That was a real big deal for me and what I was able to do, and I guess I'm just having a little hard time letting go of that because, like, we didn't. We didn't decide to do this together. Like, we kind of. Like, we. We got a little sloppy, and. And maybe we both wanted this deep down, and so we let it happen. And I think I. Yeah, I'm happy, but I'm a little nervous about just that. That seems reasonable. He can't.

[Caroline]

We've had that conversation, and he's so understanding.

[Nick]

Great.

[Caroline]

He's very understanding, very empathetic to it all.

[Nick]

So why do you guys need.

[Caroline]

From a father's standpoint.

[Nick]

Sure. I mean, listen, like, practically speaking, to

[Caroline]

be there to put his baby to bed every night.

[Nick]

Are you gonna tell him to go home? Like, what is. What does it look like right now? You guys live 10 minutes away from each other. Like, how. How many nights a week is he spending at each other's houses?

[Caroline]

We don't do overnights. He has dogs. And then I have my kid.

[Nick]

You never do overnights?

[Caroline]

Only when, like, okay, he has a dog sitter.

[Nick]

Okay, that's definitely something.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You've never done overnights.

[Caroline]

We have done it a couple times. And then my son's really confused. Right. He comes in my room in the middle of the night, and then he's asking where he is for days on end, and I'm like, listen, I don't like this. This is making my son confused, and I don't want him bringing his dogs to my house. I don't have pets. I don't clean up after pets. I don't. You know, you live 10 minutes on the road. They can be down there, and I can be here. So we don't really do overnights unless he's got a dog sitter. Okay. Or if my mom's in town, I'll go over and I'll stay over there. But.

[Nick]

Well, you are. You know, listen, you are going to have to find.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Some compromises that you are comfortable with for sure, and I think you feel this is a good thing. He. He wants to show up for his family, it sounds like.

[Caroline]

I don't know what that's like, but I'm happy about it.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But you know, it's might be something you have to get good at allowing to happen. It makes a lot of sense. You're going to have a hard time letting go of that independence that you've worked so hard to carve out for yourself and feeling. And it almost feels like you're abandoning something that you work so hard to get.

[Caroline]

I feel like it healed so much of me and now I'm scared to go through it all again and I won't have that. But I'll have a hand to help me and someone to be there. And I don't know what that's like either. So it's almost like a whole new situation.

[Nick]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. There's probably some element of letting him. A fear of letting him in, getting comfortable with the normalcy, only for him to peace out.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Have you talked to him about that?

[Caroline]

Yeah. And he's steadfast. He's not going anywhere. He's dead set. So, like that should give me comfort.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Caroline]

But.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, I'm not trying to scare you, but there's nothing that there's no guarantees like, you know, you for sure.

[Caroline]

And that's how I feel.

[Nick]

You have to keep showing up. You know, you're gonna have to find the compromises one. I'm sure it will be helpful to have a second hand. And without the second kid. It makes sense right now. It feels honestly more weird to have him spend the night because of these boundaries you put in place or he has dogs. But once the new kid shows up, it might be more weird for him not to.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So maybe. I guess all I'm saying is maybe the obvious solution right now from a practicality standpoint is he keeps his house. He doesn't have to air be like, it's good that you're talking about options. That's great. I don't think we need to execute on those options right now. I think as unpractical as it is, you guys can just have the kid and then see where you guys land. And while you knowing that you should challenge yourself to being open to allowing him to feel included and to whatever degree you want to have a relationship with him, feel like you guys are a family and let him into your world sounds like something that might be a struggle for you, but also it sounds like something you are aware that is also it sounds like what you want. If you Knew that it was all going to work out, it's what you would want kind of thing.

[Caroline]

Yeah, I want, you know, more kids. I want a family. I want that life. I just wasn't ready to let go of everything that I've built right now.

[Nick]

But listen, now he's having a hell of a time with the idea that like, she won't. It won't just be her and river and it's not. It's us, but like, there is a bond that they have. And so I think, you know, very different than what you are experiencing, but there is a similarity in that what you've been through and what you've done with your first child is always going to be a special moment. And you know, having this child and this relationship is going to change a period of your time that was very meaningful to you. And that part is similar to what Nali has experienced, that she is, and for different reasons having a hard time with like, she. It. You know, oh, obviously she's happy, she's gonna have girls and blah, blah, blah. But like, there's moments that makes her really sad.

[Caroline]

Yeah, you're like mourning the old life.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah. Which I think is normal. As I was like, I was having this conversation with Natalie literally the other night. She's so worried about that. And I just kind of reminded her that, listen, you're worried about carving out time. So it's just you and River. But one, what you have with river, no one will ever be your firstborn known. You know, like every experience as a mom, you're going to experience most likely first with river, you're going to show like, River's going to be so excited to like, be a big sister and now he's going to do stuff with river, with the baby, you know, it's like, you know, and those will be moments that you're going to, you know, there's other moments that you're going to experience that will feel just as special. It will be different. And she is so focused on what it looks like now as you are. There are other experiences for you to have with yourself and with your son and with your partner. Trying to like, make sure nothing changes is probably a little short sighted, but you know that.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Yeah, you're right for sure.

[Nick]

But yeah, if. If anything else, I think it's normal that you are experiencing these. These feelings and so you're not wrong for. For, you know, like, which forever. Part of you is like, I should be excited and I should be grateful. I finally have a guy who's willing to do blah, blah, blah for me. Like, that doesn't. That's like. That's like. Of course Nelly's excited she's gonna have two new girls. You know, just because she's worried about this bond that she has with river that might be different doesn't make her unexcited or unappreciative of the fact that she obviously, you know, wants to have more children. So if there's any part of you that's like questioning why you feel this way, you know, you can give yourself that grace.

[Caroline]

My friends just keep saying I'm being selfish and that that's a little appreciate.

[Nick]

Unnecessary. I don't know if that's helpful.

[Caroline]

I have a guy that's willing to help.

[Nick]

What friend is saying I did it

[Caroline]

on my own doesn't mean I should

[Vanessa]

have done it on my own.

[Instacart Narrator]

What.

[Nick]

What friend is saying this?

[Caroline]

It's like my closest friend and her husband that have been basically like my sister and brother in law since I've had my son. They've been like my biggest support. They really like the guy, they're really happy, but they see me potentially pushing away.

[Nick]

Their only feedback is you're being selfish. Yeah, okay, well.

[Caroline]

And I'm probably laying in, like pouring everything into them right now. They're like one of the only people I can really talk to about this. So.

[Nick]

Okay, well, you know, and maybe sometimes, you know, I guess friends can be

[Caroline]

more direct than very direct people.

[Nick]

That doesn't solve your problem because it's not about selfishness. It's just about. It's just recognizing why you're feeling what you're feeling and then trying to find a path forward. It's just, it's pointing out, like I said, like I pointed out to Natalie, it was like, I, you know, boy, that's. You're. It's being a real selfish mom to want to like, you know, connect with your oldest daughter. Are you not gonna love your kid? Like, what, you know, it's. It's more like. It's more like you're. You're. You know, I just said to Natalie, I don't think you're gonna be worried about this the way you're worried about it now. Once they show up. And I would say the same to you right now. You can only imagine what it's going to look and feel like, but the same way whatever feeling you felt when your son was born and the magic that kind of just immediately showed up will happen again, but it'll just be different. And so right now you're spending a lot of time worrying about something you literally can't imagine. But the thing you do know is that when your child shows up, you do know. It's this kind of unimaginable. You're like, I could not, you know, you just couldn't comprehend how it was going to change your point of view. You're worrying about something that you literally can't comprehend how it's going to change. You don't know how it's going to move you to see him become a father, your partner in ways that you didn't get to experience that with your firstborn.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you might fall in love seeing this guy light up the way. You know what I'm saying? Like, and there's a good chance you might be like, I was worried about, like, not wanting you here on a Tuesday night when he's just out, you know, he's just like, you know, coat, you know, he's feeding, you know, like, you know, you're. There's a good chance you'll laugh, but at the same time, I don't, you know, you. I think right now you could be like, I. I'm being, you know, I. I'm struggling with this. Whatever. Can we just, for my peace of mind, not, like, put the house on Airbnb right now? And I know it doesn't make sense, and I know it's not a long term solution, but can we just have the kid and then figure it out?

[Caroline]

Yeah. Right now I've punted everything till, like, late fall, before any action needs to start happening, to try to give me some peace of mind that I have time. But even then I think is that's like, when I want to start actually planning for something. Because it just seems like a lot.

[Nick]

What do you mean, what seems like a lot?

[Caroline]

Just, like, thought of, like, moving everything in here, the dogs, just like everything changing and then changing again when the baby's here. Just seems like a lot of change. And I don't like change.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

You know, ready or not, here it comes.

[Nick]

I don't know. The biggest change in your life was the best moment of your life. So, I don't know, maybe you like it better than you realize. Yeah, I think you're really good at anticipating change you might not like and psyching yourself out for sure, but being an unexpected mother and then being an unexpected single mother and then having that be one of the most rewarding periods of your life doesn't fit the narrative that you aren't. Whether you like it or not you're good at it. And it clearly, when you're able to do it, gives you a great amount of accomplishment.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So to the narrative that you don't like change probably isn't as accurate as you think you do. Change might make you uncomfortable. It gives you anxiety, as it does with a lot of people. But the things that we're able to overcome give us a lot of pride and joy and personal sense of accomplishment. So don't discount what you've been able to do of those past three years. And while your new situation is different, think about, like, allow yourself to just know that you, like, you did that. And so we don't know how it's all going to look, but just know that you're going to do this, too. And there were points of discomfort in these past three years, but that's not the part that you are thinking about. When you think about it, you think about your wins, not the challenges. You think about what you overcame. So try to focus on that and not. I want to have, like, the dogs.

[Caroline]

I'm just. I want to be very cognizant of a father coming into this role, and I don't want to exclude or act like I'm better off without. And I feel like maybe sometimes I come off that way. So I just want to be really aware of his feelings and including him and everything, just because I have, again, I had to do it by myself. But he wants to be involved, and he needs to be.

[Nick]

Well, you being aware of it is a big step, so I think you're going to be okay.

[Caroline]

Thank you.

[Nick]

And again, I just. I don't think the answer is you're just a selfish person. It's just, you know, it's different. It's different, and it's an adjustment, and it's a big adjustment. And, yeah, you want to do it right. So you're going to be all right.

[Caroline]

Thank you so much, Nick. I appreciate your time.

[Nick]

Good luck. Congratulations. Keep us updated. We'd love to know how you navigate this.

[Caroline]

I will definitely keep you guys on the loop. Congrats to you and the girls and Natalie.

[Nick]

Thank you.

[Caroline]

Thanks. Bye.

[Vanessa]

All right.

[Nick]

Bye. Bye.

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[Nick]

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[Nick]

Hey, guys, it's Joe. It's Kevin. And this is Nick Jonas from hey Jonas. Do you remember growing up when it felt like every teacher had a favorite student? Everybody knew who it was. Well, I was homeschooled, so I like

[Vanessa]

to think it was me.

[Nick]

A class of one. Congratulations. But we're not here to talk about our favorite students. We want to talk about a teacher's real favorite Kleenex tissues. According to teacher list, Kleenex is the number one facial tissue brand trusted by teachers. Kleenex Ultra Soft tissues are silky soft to help prevent skin irritation. And now you can take them anywhere with Kleenex, Snap and Go. Between dance, soccer, school events, and everything else kids have going on after school, Kleenex Snap and Go is easy to take along. It fits in backpacks, sports bags, or even in the car. So it's ready for whatever comes next. So do the best thing for your kids and teachers. Stock up on the ultimate classroom favorite. Maybe you'll even become the teacher's favorite parent. We still haven't settled who would be the favorite in our school. We haven't settled who the favorite brother is either. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex. How's it going?

[Vanessa]

Good. How are you?

[Nick]

Good. What's your name?

[Vanessa]

My name is Vanessa and I'm a 22 year old female dating a 27 year old male.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Vanessa]

And my question is, am I dating a man child or is this just a rough patch?

[Nick]

Okay, tell me why you're asking that question.

[Vanessa]

We've been dating for, for some context, we've been dating for about like two and a half years now, living together for I would say a year and a half or so somewhere around there. And I would say consistently we've had issues with cleaning, doing chores and lately it's just been really hard. But he has started a new job where he's, his hours are rather demanding and I'm like, okay, is this him just like not being able to grow up and do chores or is this like a valid reason? And I just need to, you know, Maybe he needs 80% from me and he's just able to give the 20% right now.

[Nick]

Okay, has it gotten better or worse?

[Vanessa]

Or worse I would say. And it's a little frustrating because I have like explained to him several times since he started this new job, like, hey, I'm kind of struggling with this. And he, he would say, you know, hey, I'm like I'm going to work on it. And then he doesn't. And it's, I'm also, I'm working full time. I'm in my master's program, taking two classes. I, he takes my car and so after work I walk home, take our dog out, do homework. And my days off, they look like, hey, okay, I'm going to do chores, okay, I'm going to do homework. His day off, he only gets one day off and he tends to either we do something together or he just kind of plays video games. His days off are just way more relaxed than my days and that kind of sucks. But I also feel like I can't put that expectation on him or I feel guilty for expecting him to maybe help me a little bit with the load because he's, his work is so demanding. Like he gets off of work sometimes as late as 9 or even or as early as 6 o' clock and then he's working on this promotion so he has to do this training that's 10 o' clock at night to sometimes 12 o' clock at night. So point being he's just really having a lot of demands put on him for work and he's doing that so he could support me through my, my schooling. So I feel like I can't ask him for help.

[Nick]

Is he supporting you through his schooling?

[Vanessa]

I mean he, he is like, he, like last year when I was doing my My bachelor's. He was, he was my rock. Like he's the strength to my weaknesses. You know, I have, I'm very anxious and like all over the place and he helps kind of cool me down. They're like, hey, you got this. You're incredible. He calls me superwoman. You know, it's, it's all great.

[Nick]

Is that the only way he's. By just being

[Vanessa]

like my rock? Yeah.

[Nick]

But he's not like financially supporting you?

[Vanessa]

Not 100%. Not completely. Like, I mean I'm working full time right now, but the goal, because he's working so hard to get this promotion and like he's a manager right now. So then once I. Because in August I'm going full time for my classes and I'm going to have an internship. There's no way in hell that I could survive all that with a full time job like I am right now. So he's, he's working towards that. That. So then I don't have to work as much. So he's not doing this for fun. Like he's doing it for me. So I should be able to do all the chores. But I don't want you.

[Nick]

When you say the chores, like what are the drawers?

[Vanessa]

I mean just like dishes, laundry, taking care of the animals and taking trash out, stuff like that.

[Nick]

None of that.

[Vanessa]

He does that. He does help with the animals, but aside from that, no. See, and even like cooking dinner. See, with his last job this was still a problem. The chores have consistently been a problem in our relationship. I've had to bring it up with him and he's done like good in some areas but like at first it was rocky. He's kind of said to me, not the exact words, but basically, well, it doesn't bother me and it bothers you. So you should kind of, you should do it or if you want it done by a certain time, then do it yourself. He's since then kind of like, like backsteps with that. But my thing is, is like it stresses me out when stuff is like dirty and I can't have a clear headed mind and do the things I do needed to do for school when it's like that. But in his head it's like, well, you do it. I'm like, well, do you love me? Do you want to help me?

[Nick]

How messy is he?

[Hannah]

I don't.

[Vanessa]

He's not like a pig or anything. It's just like cleaning. If I cook dinner, he's not going to help me clean the dishes. Although it's funny because he says, oh, since you're cleaning, you're doing dinner. I should like the role should be that he does the dishes, but he typically doesn't help me with dishes. Or if he like.

[Nick]

So like you're make. You. You make dinner. It's a regular night.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, some. Not all the time.

[Nick]

Okay. But like at night you're making dinner. Let's say this is a night where he doesn't have to study or. Yeah, whatever. Is he choosing not to help you with the dishes and just watching you do the dishes and sitting around doing nothing and refusing to do the dishes? Or is it more like he doesn't love doing the dishes, but he also has a bunch of other shit to do. And so. And you in that particular moment are free. And so what? Which is more accurate?

[Vanessa]

He watches me, I would say. But see, right now he's not even. I, I get it done before he gets home, typically. So. But in this, in the instance that he was home and I needed to do the chores, yeah, he would watch me. He would play his games. He plays video games too. So that's his ways relaxing. So.

[Nick]

But he can't help. Yeah. So listen, I, you know, obviously very nuanced, I think. Well, one, you're 22, he's 27. You've been together for two, like. So it sounds like you guys live together. Are. Is an engagement around the corner is like, it sounds like this is a person. You guys. I'm assuming you're talking about like a life together.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, we. We've had. I honestly feel like the position where are right now, I don't feel comfortable necessarily getting engaged. I feel like there's some things that I. We need to work on before I'm like ready to commit. But here's the thing too, is that he was previously married as well with somebody for two years. And they like after the year, Mark, she pressured him into marriage and so. And then their relationship ended and. Because he wasn't feeling loved. And so that's something that like he's holding on to.

[Nick]

You know that. Because he's communicated that with you. He's like, hey, I got divorced and she didn't make me feel loved and she pressured me into marriage.

[Vanessa]

That.

[Nick]

That's.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, yeah. Like, like physical touch is a really big thing for him. Yeah, yeah. Specifically like sexual activity, which is another thing that is like stressful in a relationship because I have a history of sexual assault. And so that's something that we're working on is another stressor. And the cleaning is A stressor. Yeah. But he has explained to me that's like a big thing for him. He needs to feel loved. He needs to have that physical intimacy.

[Nick]

I'm assuming he's saying it in a way that he's like, hey, this happened to me, or. And this is what I need.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, he's not being demanding or anything,

[Nick]

but he's making it clear what he needs to feel love and supported.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he has.

[Nick]

Okay. And do you feel like your needs and demands are being reciprocated because, like, everyone has a right. Like he has a right to communicate that. But the question is, yeah, of course, you know, does. But does. Is there any part of the fact that he's already been married and divorced? Does it feel like at all that maybe even it's unspoken that he's a little bit more justified to ask than you are because it already hasn't worked out with someone else. So he has a clearer picture of what he doesn't want or some version of that.

[Vanessa]

I mean, I don't feel that way, but maybe it's a part. But I. Yeah, I've never thought about that. So I don't. I don't think so.

[Nick]

All right. I mean, listen, I. Generally speaking, like. I mean, you're only 22 and like, you know, that's not. It's young, but like, a lot of 22 year olds get married and things like that. I. I met my. My wife at. At your age and she moved in with me at like 23 or something. I don't know, 20. Maybe it was 22, you know, and so, like. But like, the conversations we had were, you know, pretty. Once we got going, got pretty serious and she knew what she wanted. But like, when you're. I guess what I'm saying is you're playing house for sure. Right? And that's okay to a certain extent, but you're playing house in a situation where it doesn't sound like you're necessarily on a path to engage. It sounds like you're playing house to we'll see. Which is what a lot of people do, which is like, you know, we date and it just kind of makes sense to move in with each other because, like, there's some financial incentives or whatever the reason why I just needed a roommate or we spend the most time together, so, like, why not? Let's just see how it goes. And then you kind of get in this kind of like, relationship purgatory where it's just like. I mean. Yeah, I mean, like, I think he's my person. And I. I do think I want to spend my rest of my life, but, like, not right now. And I. Now that I'm living with him, I'm noticing a lot of things I don't love. So, like, I guess we'll see. And now you're, like, playing house with someone who's like. Like just your boyfriend, and. And there's no real path forward, I guess, is what I'm saying. Does that make sense?

[Vanessa]

Yeah. No, it makes sense, and it sucks because, like, when I think about, like, getting married and, like, I do get emotional, but it's like, am I emotional because it's with him, or is. Am I emotional because it's just getting married in general? And I just think about the things that, like, he does for me, and I'm like, okay, there's like. Like, he does support me.

[Ad Voice]

He's great.

[Vanessa]

Right? But I think you've made a good point. This is something that he's even pointed out to me that possibly acts. This is kind of one of my love languages, and I'm not getting that at all. Another one is quality time, and we have been working on that. But it's. It's kind of adding up. It's. It's getting to a point where I'm like, I do love him and I feel his love, but I feel like I'm trying to give my all towards him, and he's not necessarily doing that. Like, I'm trying so hard to be able to meet those needs of, you know, his. His sexual life, but I can't get him to do chores. I mean, I don't want to say that, actually, because if I ask him, hey, like, if I'm pinpoint, like, do these dishes, he'll do them. But I really don't want to have to do that. I want him to see, oh, my God, the trash is piling up. Let me take it out. But.

[Nick]

Okay, well, let's backtrack for a second because I understand the. I don't know if you've seen the movie the Breakup, but I want you to want to do the dishes is okay, is a famous line. And he's like, who wants to do the dishes?

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Taking a step back, I have learned at least what's been successful for me and my marriage so far. And I'm no expert, but, like, we both feel like we both care, right? We both feel like we can, at the end of the day, be like, hey, this is important to me. Can you do this for me or us or whatever. There's a level of we're in it together, a common goal, a partnership that is like a big part of our relationship, you know, and there is like a, there's reciprocity there. And that is just like a big picture feeling we have on a day to day person. Like certainly one of us might irritate the other. Usually it's me irritating Natalie or whatever. Or we might like, you know, I play video games at a time. She was like, finds it annoying or unhelpful. You know, we might push the limits of the patience of our partners. That's normal. But at the end of the day, we both know she is my number one priority. I feel like we're each other's number one priority outside of our kid and our children. And if you're feeling in your relationship where you are doing 80% of 100% of your half and half of his, that doesn't and that how a lot of people feel, that doesn't work out right. If you don't feel like at the end of the day you can go to him and say I really need this and I need. And he can say, yeah, I'm not good at it or whatever or blah blah. He could have all his excuses, I'm busy. But he can be busy and make you feel like a priority. In fact, I think it's really easy for busy people to make their partners feel like a priority because I think a lot of those cases, like yourself, their partners understand that they're busy and they see that they're busy so they're even more reasonable of what they can expect. It's like. And usually if let me know if I'm not making sense. But it's like the busy person knows that they're busy and so they sometimes will use their busyness as an excuse to do nothing to like, as their bit, you know, to like. Well, to do the things they don't want to do. But the busy person, the right busy person could be like, I'm busy but my partner's still my priority. I don't want to be so busy that I make my partner feel like I don't care about them or they're not a priority or they're not willing to show up. And that busy person can really make their partner feel important and valued because their partner knows they're busy and yet they're still showing up. You know, maybe not as much as the unbusy person. It's not perfect. They still might have to ask for a lot of grace because they're so busy, but when they do show up, the person really notices it. And you seem like you would. You would notice it. And it sounds like you're just feeling. You're negotiating a little too hard for some of the bare minimum stuff. Yeah, it does feel like he is using his busyness sometimes as a little excuse to just not do. I'm working on it is not. It's like, you know, are you. Are you. Are you saying you're working on it or are you just working on it? You know, and so, yeah.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, there was a point in time where he really was working on it. Before he had this job, he. We arranged for him to cook for a little bit just because I. Another big chore thing is cooking, and if I don't cook, we're eating fast food, and I want to get out of that.

[Nick]

Does he like to cook? Is he good at. Is he good at cooking?

[Vanessa]

No, I would say he's good. And he did find some, like, interest. Like, his thing is soups, and he's enjoying doing that or was enjoying doing that. Yeah. Great. And I was like, hell, yeah. He makes a mean cheddar broccoli soup. But split this job. He hasn't been doing that. And so we're eating fast food more. And then that's making me feel like shit, because I don't want to do that. So it's a whole thing. And I do think if I genuinely put it in front of him, like, hey, I am genuinely struggling, and I really need you to put in this effort, like. Or. I don't know. But I wouldn't want to, like, frame it as an ultimatum because he's also like, oh, my God, I hate those. And I feel like I have pointed out, hey, I'm struggling. And he said, I'll work on it. He doesn't. So it's just like.

[Nick]

So, yeah, there's a middle ground. Right? Like. Like, it's not an ultimatum unless, like, it needs to be.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, but at the same time, he can't just. Again, like, there's. Every relationship has period, you know, they're. You're only 22, you haven't dated him for two and a half years. But, like, do you think he's the type of person where it's just like, maybe right now he is so busy and working so hard that it's really difficult for him to do some of these things? And. And are you more frustrated by the idea that you're doing a little bit, you know, more than he is? But, like, you Also can. And it's fine because you are supporting him and you're, you're. It's part of the team goal and it's part of the long term goal. And that he has demonstrated in the past his ability to like, show up for you in a way where, like right now it's a little bit uneven because of just like where you guys are at in life. But you do feel like, you know, as life moves on and things will change. Do you feel that or do you feel like he's just, you know, he might be busy, but he's also kind of like good at being selfish. And he's really, he's really good at stating what he wants and what he needs. He needs physical intimacy. He's very good at communicating what, why he got a divorce, which almost makes me feel almost like, don't do that because then I'll divorce you, you know. And is he really good at that? Because he's just, you know, because at the end of the day, he's someone who's very set in his ways and he is looking for someone to accommodate him more than being a team with someone, you know. And I. You have, you have to, you have to ask that question. And I, and I think that whatever you think is more true is probably like your answer in terms of is this worth working on or versus not.

[Vanessa]

I feel like you brought up a lot of great things that I want to actually hit on. First of all, I went into this relationship and I'm pretty sure I, I made it clear that I don't want to be a traditional housewife. I mean, hello, I'm school, like going for my masters. Does that mean I want to stay home and do your laundry? No. And he understood stands that. But I do feel like subconsciously he does want a housewife. And it's. That's been something that I've had to fight with. Not against him, but inside myself. Because when I start doing all the housewife things, I'm like, oh my God, I'm here I am. I'm doing all this stuff because I'm a woman. But I've worked towards thinking, okay, no, I'm doing this because it makes me feel good. I like a clean house and it makes me feel better. I'm not doing this because I have to. And that has helped. But now that I'm busy and I'm stressed, I've told him before, if I don't do it doesn't get done. And he's like, no, like, that's not True. I'm like, yes, it is. So it's just that piece in mind that I had has gone out the window now that I'm busier with school.

[Nick]

If you got. If you were single, how much less work would you have? Because you wouldn't have him to deal with?

[Vanessa]

Okay, that's another, like, great thing that you're bringing up, because he was. He's actually not here right now. So on Sunday, he left for a work trip again, doing great things, and he won't be back till Friday. And if he was telling me, like, oh, like, I. It might not. Like, it might fall through, and I was like, no, please, please go. Not because I hate him being here, because I'm like, ah. I get to worry just about my laundry. I don't have to make sure his uniforms are clean. I, like, I only have to grab my own towel. Like, just all those things. I only have to worry about feeding myself because I feel like in some ways, he is a little more demanding on food. He's like, after work, he's like, hey, what's. I'm like, oh, I didn't cook anything. Guess we're, like, eating out. And also, my car. Like, I let him use my car, but he lives further away. I live, like, I work a mile away, and so it's easy for me to walk home, but now I get to, like, drive to and from work, and it's so nice, and I feel a little more relaxed, but it's brought up these emotions of, like, oh, God, does that mean I don't love him or don't want to be with him? Because I'm happy that he's gone for a week.

[Nick]

How happy?

[Vanessa]

I mean, I'm not happy. I'm a little emotionally distraught right now, but it is a little, like, less stressful, I would say.

[Nick]

Take away your worrying about the big picture of your relationship. How much are you enjoying this week?

[Vanessa]

I. I'm enjoying it. I feel bad because he calls me and he's like, I miss you. I'm like, I miss you, too.

[Nick]

Well, listen, you don't miss being. Listen, it's. There's. There's some. There's obviously some kind of inequity in this relationship. You know, he doesn't get to be the person who, like, doesn't want to cook but gets to expect what's on the menu, you know, or the fact that, like, he's got, you know, that he can do his laundry. You can. You know, you're. You're not married. You do live together. You could just be. And at some level you don't feel appreciated too. There's that, you know, like, I don't know if even if he did a better job of being like, I'm so lucky to have you and really made you feel like, I don't know, some way more than just words. He appreciated you.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Than he is doing now then now it just feels like work. It feel. You keep saying the word chores. Like, I don't. Most 22 year old don't say the word chores these days. In fact, I was actually me and my wife, I was asking Natalie, do parents give kids chores anymore? Because there's this like viral thing going around by the super nannies talking about how like kids these days don't know how to do basic stuff. Anyway, I digress. Yeah, but you feel like you're doing his chores and that is just annoying.

[Vanessa]

He's said before too, like, hey, you could just like, if it's really that big a deal, just do your own laundry and I'll do mine. And I'm like, but I feel like I have to like, I'm like, that sounds wrong. Like if I'm going to laundry, then I might as well do that. It was like, I don't know. That feels like, it feels rude. I'm like, why am I just going to worry about myself? We're in a relationship. I should like want to have clean clothes.

[Nick]

So how, how, how do you feel like he is your partner? Like, how does he show up for you?

[Vanessa]

He's very like emotionally supportive, I would say, because again, like.

[Nick]

So he's a cheerleader. He's a good cheerleader.

[Vanessa]

Yeah. Yeah. And he is like supporting me financially. Like he is trying to be, I guess, your traditional man.

[Nick]

He is supporting you financially on some level.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, to some level. He is for sure.

[Nick]

What about the part where you're. He's using your car.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, I mean he is using my

[Nick]

car and I, how is he supporting you financially?

[Vanessa]

He's just, well, he gets his paycheck and then he sends me like a portion of it and then I handle the bill. So he's just giving me money? Essentially, yeah.

[Nick]

So he's supporting you financially or he's. You're sharing the cost and you are also doing the finances of the relationship cost?

[Vanessa]

I guess. Yeah. So I guess saying supporting financially isn't accurate. But I mean, he is helping me with finances. Like I'm, I have my money. I, I, Yeah, but, but, but he, and yeah, okay.

[Nick]

But he sends you money. That. And then you deal with the finances of the house and the relationship.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So it's actually just more work. It's not him giving you money. You're splitting costs, right?

[Vanessa]

Well, yeah. And the funny thing is, too, there is only one bill that's under his name, but I have to remind him to check his email so I could pay it.

[Nick]

So just to be clear, you split the cost. No one's paying for the other person. You guys generally, overall are.

[Vanessa]

Are just splitting costs as a collective.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is normal. Which makes sense. But you are, for the most part, start managing the finances and making. And. And you have the responsibility to make things. Make sure things get paid.

[Vanessa]

Yeah. So I feel like I am the man and the woman.

[Nick]

Yeah. So again, back to, like, how outside of being a cheerleader and saying, good job, hon, I believe in you. What. How is he? How does he show up in this relationship? What does he contribute?

[Vanessa]

His goofy personality.

[Nick]

Okay. Oh, but, like, what about day to day stuff? How does he take care of you?

[Vanessa]

You. That's crazy. Sorry, I. That's a. I don't know why. That's a hard answer for me. Like, question for me to answer. But I. I mean, I'm big on quality time, and we have our. We eat and watch a show together, and that beats my soul, I guess, a little bit.

[Nick]

Okay, that is a little bit. That is nice.

[Vanessa]

Uhhuh.

[Nick]

But it shouldn't be that hard to answer.

[Vanessa]

That's.

[Nick]

Yeah, that's it.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And again, it sounds like he's just not, like, showing up for, like, the mundane, annoying things of life and the responsibilities of just being an adult. And he's had. And he has a girlfriend to honestly kind of take care of him in a way that, like, you don't. You. It's clear how you take care of him. It's unclear how he takes care of you. And it's not equal. And that's probably the thing that you are struggling with the most because, like, there's tangible answers. It's very easy for you to answer. I do literally his laundry. I pay his bills, I make him food. I make sure, like, very motherly type of qualities.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

It'd be very easy for me to be like, I do a lot of this. Natalie does this, you know, kind of comes out in the wash. But we're both doing things in a lot of ways that, like, we share a lot of the responsibilities. I don't know if it's, like, totally, you know, but it's as easy for us to both answer those questions and we're not keeping score and it's very difficult for you to answer those questions. It's also easy for him to explain to him what he needs from a relationship. And it's also easy for him to say things like, like, well, just don't do that. Which is like no one, neither of you are really expecting that to be an option.

[Vanessa]

I, I did want to like jump in and add one thing too that I meant to mention earlier when in the discussion, when I've complained about it being too much to handle for my like doing all the things I'm doing. He's like, you know, do I need to find a different job? And I'm like, well, no, I don't want you to do that. But that it has been something he's presented. But then I feel bad like I, I don't want you to do that. And we also need the money that you're bringing in.

[Nick]

Well, again, let me ask you this. Like, re. Like, is do you think he is so busy with work and everything else that he's just as much as he wants to, doesn't have the bandwidth to do some of the things that you are picking up the slack or is it just kind of like, kind of an excuse? I'm really busy, you know, I gotta.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, I do think he is. And he says that like the job that he has is going to even out eventually because, you know, like I was saying earlier, he only has one day off and I feel like it's cruel to expect him to have to do things on that like day off. Like he should be able to have the one day to enjoy because all these other days, is he working up, going to work, coming back work.

[Nick]

But is he working like 18 hours a day, six days a week?

[Vanessa]

No, not every day. I mean he wakes up at 6 o' clock and sometimes he'll get home by 6. Other times he gets home at 8 or 9. It just kind of depends on the day.

[Nick]

Okay, but he's working 12 hour days on average. Sounds like. Yeah, okay, six days a week.

[Vanessa]

Yeah. And so like I, technically when you're looking at it like I do have more time off. So is this me like just needing to support us until he's, he's done, but then I'm like, when he's leveled out and he can provide more time, like maybe this is the rough patch and it will be brighter on the other side.

[Nick]

Your biggest challenge is again, you're playing house, right? And you're like, again, a lot of what you're doing describing could potentially be very normal. He is working a lot, right? I mean like six days a week, 12 hour days. That's a lot. And I get it. You're like, you know, and it makes a lot of sense that he would want to just be chill the out on his one day off and when he gets home and he still even has maybe some other work to, you know, that's a lot to like want to do laundry. I get all that. And it sounds like despite all your frustrations, you do have some more free time than him. And, and like you have pointed out, it's just like well I need to eat so like you know, and I need to do my laundry and I'm paying the bills anyways. So like if this makes his life easier. But like you, you don't have the commitment, right? You don't know if you guys are going to get married. You don't even know if you want to marry him. But in the, in the middle of figuring out what you want to do with him in this relationship, you are playing house. You are acting like a married couple. So you are struggling with the normal expectations that like and, and, and questions that married couples constantly face is like how do you gu. And the responsibility. But what the married couples have at least hopefully many of which that you, you definitely don't is the security that you guys are in it for the long haul and they're, you know, you know that this is the person you want to be with. They have, you have seen them show up in ways where they've been less busy so you know that they are willing and capable of like doing their part. But right now it might feel in a little unequal but like again like, like there's a plan, there's a we. Right. And so you think he's working hard in hopes that he can take care of you. But like you don't really know for sure because you're, you're not married and you're not engaged and you're not naive to know that like you know, you're banking on the idea of something and I think that's where you're what you're like a lot of people are in your shoes these days because in you know, like the way we've kind of gone about moving forward a relationship add to the fact that he's already been married and so like in a lot of ways he's got his cake and eat it too. He has some found someone who is playing the role of a traditional housewife. Whether he meant to find that or not, whether that was intentional of him without the, you know, he can make promises to you, he can talk about his plans, but like, you know, marriage is literally a contract and there's some accountability there, you know, and now he, he, you know, he could literally just show up on Saturday and be like, I don't want to do this anymore. And that would be awkward and painful and a hassle and someone would have to move and. But it would be a hell of a lot easier than a divorce. And he certainly knows the difference between what he has now and versus what he had before with, With a marriage contract. You know, what you are experiencing right now, if for. For no other, you know, is this kind of the consequences of playing house in a situation where you're also like, you're 22, you're investing in yourself. You don't have, like, you're not. You can. Maybe you will, I don't know. But at 22 years old right now, you are investing yourself, and rightfully so. At 22 years old, the life you've chosen doesn't really line up with the life you are exploring. Yeah, that all makes sense.

[Vanessa]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick]

I don't know if it's helpful. Probably raise more questions.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, no, I think you, you are being helpful. I think it really is like, do I believe after he settles with work, if he's really going to put in the effort that I'm wanting him to put in? And I know if you would even call it effort, like we've been saying, it's kind of bare minimum. And that's the thing that I am worried about because in the past he has showed up, up a little bit. And I. My fear is getting married and having children and him not changing and being stuck in a relationship like my parents are stuck in. And so that's like, I am really wanting to like bite the bullet and be like, look, if we can't figure this out and make just do it, then maybe we need part ways. But there's also. I'm in another state, so moving back home would be a pain in the ass. And that's how people get trapped in relationships. So I just, It's a bit.

[Nick]

Do you have to move back home if you guys broke up?

[Vanessa]

Well, I have nobody here, so it's a messy situation.

[Nick]

Why is it messy?

[Vanessa]

Well, because I'm in school right now and I mean, I just started. It's only two. Two classes and his parents live in the state and I don't have anyone else. I'M like, do I just stay here alone and go be with somebody else? But I can't afford paying, like, rent all alone. And just the stress of, like, if we do break up, how the hell is that going to work out? And we have a lease together. And it's just the complications of that. But also, I love him, and I don't know if I want to break up with him. But also, at the same time, I'm like, if he can't get his shit together, then maybe we'll have to.

[Nick]

Your life would. It would be different. Your. Your apartment might be smaller. You might have less things. But I go, all I'm saying is if you really. If you were determined to not move back home, I bet you could do it.

[Vanessa]

It. Yeah, probably.

[Nick]

It might be a little harder and things might change, but I bet you could do it. You have options. It just. There might be some tough choices, but you do have options. If he's the only person you know right now in the city and you live, that's. Well, if nothing else, you need to make some friends, because in a relationship or not, you're only 22 years old.

[Vanessa]

You know, like, I am working on that. And I think through my. My schooling, I have like. Like a little. Like a little friend, a more acquaintance friend. We're working on hanging out and stuff. And so I do have people I get along with. I just haven't actively hung out with anyone here outside of his family. So I guess in some ways, I'm isolated.

[Nick]

Yeah. So, you know, I would. While you're figuring him out and you don't really. It doesn't sound like you're ready to make a decision. That's okay. But in the meantime, I think we've unpacked some, like, things that you, you know, I think you just need to take advantage of this period in which he's really, really busy. I think you need to maybe just, yeah. Feel a little less. Expand your world. Right. I don't think. And also, it's not like maybe some days you don't have time to do his laundry and you could just. I wouldn't do it out of spite, but I don't know, maybe if the option is go out and make some friends or do his laundry, I would go out and make some friends and say, I didn't have to. I didn't have time to do your

[Vanessa]

laundry today, but he has my car, so I can't go anywhere.

[Nick]

Why is he using your car?

[Vanessa]

Car? Because he works further away, and it's like, okay, Uber, take a bus. And that was just a hassle. And it's easier for him to take my car.

[Nick]

Can he get a car?

[Vanessa]

Oh, well, he. He had a car at one point, and then an accident happened, all that stuff. So he just hasn't had the means to be able to afford a car. He's not great with money, hence why he sends it to me. So, like, he. In fact, his check is garnished because he had to take a loan out a while ago and never paid it back. So maybe not the most responsible individual

[Nick]

I'm dating, but that matters if you feel like you're. You're have to take care of him. And again, I think the. It seemed like I struck a nerve when I asked you, how does he take care of you? I think that's something you should pay attention to because, like, it's clear that you're taking care of him and you're wondering if you. If he has the capability of taking care of you. And I don't think you have an answer to that question. And I think that's the thing you should focus on the most. And I think you should be very clear. He's clear with you how he wants to be taken care of. You have the right to be equally as clear. You have demonstrated your ability to meet his needs. He hasn't demonstrated his ability to meet yours.

[Vanessa]

And I think he's made me think that what he's doing is enough because he's working and he's able to give me money, that that's enough. And I.

[Nick]

He's not giving you money, though. He's.

[Vanessa]

Well, true. He isn't. He's paying the bills. He's helping me pay bills.

[Nick]

He's doing his part. No, he's, he's. No, he's not even doing his part. He's doing. He's giving you the money, but you're doing. You're handling all the finances, which is a lot of work.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think what, really, what I've gotten out of this is I just need to have a conversation point blank laid out for him so there's no under,

[Nick]

no misunderstandings and every obstacle he has, like, he doesn't have a car, he had to garnish his wages, blah, blah, blah. You are, you. You are finding ways again. How do you take care of them? I let him use my car so much so that I'm stranded. There are things during the day that it would be nice to have a car, but he gets the car because he works further away that's another. How many more examples do you have of sacrifices you're making from him? And yes, he's working hard for himself too. The only thing you have is the idea in the hope that part of this effort and a career that he's investing in is that you will reap some benefits sometimes day. But right now that's just a dream. And in the meantime, you are every day waking up and literally doing things for him and making sacrifices for him.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And that, you know, it doesn't feel equal. And that's the part that is. You're probably struggling with. So he needs to grow up, you know, he needs to get better at money. Or you just have to get better at telling him, like, I listen, I need my car. I mean, you know.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, yeah. That's a choice. That's an option.

[Nick]

Listen, he. It sounds like overall he's really good at and comfortable telling you what he needs and expecting you to accommodate. And he's really good at pushing back on your request to accommodate yourself.

[Vanessa]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick]

I would say that's accurate and that is not sustainable.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So you need to communicate that and then stop. And stop doing the thing that you're doing that's causing him to take advantage of the thing that you're doing.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And not feel bad.

[Vanessa]

I agree. Luckily, I have therapy later today and she could help me figure out how to do that too.

[Nick]

So there you go.

[Vanessa]

We'll work it out. Yeah. Yeah. But I could do that. Thank you.

[Nick]

You're only 22. Just remember that you have a long lot. You know, you have a lot in front of you. I know you care about them. But like, like, he might not be your guy. And yeah, there's a good chance he's not going to change, you know.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

The bad with money. Yes. It's a red flag.

[Vanessa]

Well, I think a part of the loan was also to gamble with. He had a gambling problem at one point. That kind of like, wasn't great.

[Nick]

Those guys tend not to get much better. My sister was engaged to a guy like that once.

[Vanessa]

Oh, geez. See, it's like he, he does have, like, he has an issue with like, he latches onto things in addictive ways. And also, like, here's another thing is when he broke up with his ex wife, he was with his mom for two years and she took care of him, did everything. And so I don't think he knows how to take care of himself.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, that was, that was context you left out. That really matters. I mean, this. Yeah. He's a. He was raised. He's a bit of a boy. And you're, You're. You are taking care of him in a way that he is not taking care of you. You need to quickly change that, I think. And you're making a lot of excuses for him, and I'm. My guess is I don't doubt he's busy. My guess is I doubt he's busier than me.

[Vanessa]

Probably not, you know. Yeah.

[Nick]

And I feel pretty confident in how I take care of my people.

[Vanessa]

Yeah. Yeah. And see, I mean, you have a family and you're taking care of him. And I, we got a puppy like a year or so ago, and I trained her and I did everything and I asked him to help with the training and he was playing video games and didn't. He took her outside to go to the bathroom and made sure she didn't chew on things. But that was kind of it. And so I kind of get worried about if we have kids, is he going to be able to step up?

[Nick]

So that's fair. Yeah.

[Vanessa]

Come. Just need to have a conversation. Yeah, he can't.

[Nick]

I mean, he's not taking care of himself. Like, you know, I. I hated laundry, but when I was by my, you know, my mom did not take care of me in between girlfriends, that's for sure. That's. That's.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, that blew my mind. That's the thing that he's. That he's brought up before. Like, when I was complaining about the whole laundry thing and he suggested, like, look, I'll just do my own laundry. Like, how do you think I survived before I met you? Oh, he. Your mom was doing all that. But I guess like, like, and I should have learned before we moved in together. I was seeing, like, he did. Would have piles of clothes and he. I don't know, just didn't really take care of himself. I was like, oh, whatever. Didn't think it was problem. But yeah, now I'm doing it.

[Nick]

But anyways, the good news is you got a lot going for you on your own.

[Vanessa]

Yeah. Yeah, true.

[Nick]

And I would, I would, I would lean into the, like, the realization that you're kind of enjoying your alone time here and outside of maybe having to get a different apartment, that and downsizing a little bit or maybe, I don't know. Or maybe you can find a little extra money. I don't know. What's the. How much. How much is your. Can I. Can I ask how much your rent is?

[Vanessa]

Oh, our rent is like. I want to say about, like, 13,000. But that's like the base rent I think a month and on of top, top of the utilities. Yeah. 13,000 or. No, no, no. 16,000. Sorry, no. Oh my God, I can't do math. It's 600 or so dollars plus 700 so dollars for just the rent.

[Nick]

Okay, 1300.

[Vanessa]

Okay, okay, yes.

[Nick]

That's different. I'm like damn girl, you're living in a, you're living in a three million dollar house.

[Vanessa]

I'm bad with numbers.

[Nick]

Okay, so 1300. Okay, that's, that's reasonable, right? Like, like yeah. What are you spending $600 on a month that you don't need?

[Vanessa]

Well, car insurance.

[Nick]

You need car insurance?

[Vanessa]

Yeah. No. Okay. Yeah, sorry. Fast food, I would say. I mean I really don't, I feel like shitty buying things. I just went thrifting because I feel bad buying stuff at Walmart. Like I don't buy stuff for myself. I buy food and groceries.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Vanessa]

Fast food. And that's the thing we don't need. And I'm trying to work on. But I feel like in some ways he holds me back in that sense.

[Nick]

$1300 is a pretty decent rent.

[Vanessa]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick]

And I just wonder if maybe you could, I just wonder if you could find his half somehow, some way. Maybe it's a side hustle. Maybe it's like, I don't know, maybe the time that you wouldn't have to do his laundry, cook him food, you can get a part time job. I don't know, I'm just simply saying all the things that you're afraid of. You would have access to your car again if ultimately you decide you don't want to be with him. You would be an independent person who is investing in herself and going to school. You would have certainly more free time because you know, listen, relationships take time and sense sacrifice. You can maybe use that free time as a young 22 year old with her whole life in front of her to get a job that covers like the rent so that you can keep the apartment that you have and, and do your thing. You know, you have, you have options. You don't have to like move home if that's not, was something you don't want to do. And then you can invest, you know, in your, and then the other free time, it's like, I'm gonna go out and make some, meet some friends, see where it goes.

[Vanessa]

Very true. And I already have people in mind that I could probably lean on too. And that sort of. So I, if, if it happens, if, if I end up Leaving him, I, I do know realistically, like, I will be supported and a lot of different angles.

[Nick]

So I just think, yeah, I think you just need to be clear to him that like, he's just not doing his part and it's not about him. You, you recognize that he's busy and you appreciate all you, he is working hard and you acknowledge that and appreciate that. But your mom took care of you and like, you don't either you don't take care of yourself or you really count on other people like your parents as a 27 year old to take care of you. And you know, that's, I, I want someone, I need to be in a relationship with someone who's good at taking care of me and I don't have to beg and I don't have to like, and you don't and I do and, and I'm not like, gonna keep waiting for change because, like, there's a lot of busy people who like, still find the time to take care of their people. He's using his busy days as an excuse to not like, like, make you feel loved or, or, you know, he's cheering you on. That's nice. You know, I'm glad he, I'm glad you feel like, supported, I guess.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, yeah, I, I see what you're saying, you know. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I feel like I, I, I understand what I need to do and what things I need to think about now, so.

[Nick]

Okay, well, keep us posted. See how you feel at the end of this week. You know, it might be a good barometer and you can just be honest. Like, honestly, I had an easier week with you.

[Vanessa]

Oh. But if I tell him, hey, I didn't really miss you, he's gonna like, feel bad. I just care about his feelings too much and I think I just need to start caring about mine.

[Nick]

So does his mom.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, yeah, that's, I mean, it's kind.

[Nick]

Listen, he needs to grow up. It's kind of a nick and he can. And I don't think he wants to be the boy who, without a woman in his life, including his mom, he's kind of, he's kind of giving. He's still in college and he hasn't grown up and he does, he's not responsible. The fact that like, if you stop paying his bills, would he even know how to, would he would know what to do if you like.

[Vanessa]

I think so.

[Nick]

Does he know how his rent gets paid?

[Vanessa]

Yeah, yeah, he's aware. Yeah. I mean, he knows how to do it. I just, I Took it on because he's not good with money. So.

[Nick]

Buddy, would he do it, like, if

[Vanessa]

I asked him to? No, if you did, he was just alone.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Vanessa]

Or. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he would.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Vanessa]

I. I mean, he. I feel like he'd have no choice. Like, he'd have to.

[Nick]

Well, he had a choice. He got a loan and didn't pay it back. He was supposed to. He chose not to. People choose not to pay their rent all the time or they forget or whatever, you know?

[Vanessa]

Yeah, good point. But I mean, I think. I think this is a little different. I think he would.

[Nick]

Okay, all right, well, listen, you have a lot to think about. You have a lot of options. That's the thing I want you to know. And, yeah, I would. He's debit. He's definitely demonstrating some pretty big red flags of things that, if I were you, I would be very reluctant to. To invest in long term without any actual examples of change. Yeah, I definitely would not like the

[Vanessa]

way you said that.

[Nick]

I would definitely not invest in him long term with. With only hope to go on.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, I think that's another thing is like, okay, am I loving him the way he is right now, or. Or am I loving the idea of the future? And I think right now it's kind of the idea of the future.

[Nick]

He seems like a nice boy who cares about you, and that's nice, but you need, you know, a marriage needs more than that and so does, like, a family.

[Vanessa]

Definitely.

[Caroline]

All right.

[Nick]

All right. Well, good luck.

[Vanessa]

All right, cool. Thank you.

[Nick]

All right, thanks. Bye. Bye.

[Vanessa]

Bye.

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