← The Viall Files
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- [00:01]
Nick
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- [02:14]
Alexis
She asked why I loved her which how do you put love into words like that's where I struggled.
- [02:19]
Nick
I mean, what if you had said something like, I don't know. I just think about you every goddamn day, and I miss the hell out of you. And I. There hasn't been a day since we've been broken up that I haven't missed you.
- [02:29]
Alexis
So I did say that as well.
- [02:30]
Nick
Great.
- [02:33]
Alexis
You're crazy.
- [02:44]
Nick
How's it going?
- [02:45]
Chris
Hi, my name is Chris. I'm 25 years old. I haven't had sex with my boyfriend in over two years. And I think it might be ruining our intimacy.
- [02:54]
Nick
Might. I don't. What? You don't have any. Why? Why? And from your point of view, have you guys not had sex for two years?
- [03:03]
Chris
Yeah. So I've been with my boyfriend for four and a half years now. And when we first started dating, we had sex pretty regularly, like once every couple weeks. But kind of as we started getting closer and I started kind of getting more involved in my faith. I'm Christian. So I started getting a little bit more involved with my faith. I kind of realized that I was feeling kind of guilty about, you know, every time we would be intimate or have sex. So we kind of had a conversation about maybe, you know, slowing down the sex or stopping sex completely. And originally it just kind of started as us just not having actual sex and just kind of doing everything in between. And then now it's kind of become absolutely nothing. And I feel like I'm becoming, like, getting more and more distance between me and my boyfriend when it comes to overall intimacy, kind of because of that.
- [03:55]
Nick
Interesting. How is your. Is your boyfriend religious?
- [03:58]
Chris
He's not. He's, like, very supportive of my beliefs. And he'll, like, will come to church with me if I ask him, and he will talk it through with me if I want to talk things through. But he's not, like, very religious himself, which is, I think, a big part of the issue.
- [04:13]
Nick
If he were here, what would he. What do you think he would say about this topic?
- [04:17]
Chris
Yeah, definitely. I think he has always told me because we've had so many conversations over this over the past two years. And he always says because of the lack of kind of sex and the lack of desire, he feels unloved because. And undesired because his love language is physical touch. So he kind of always feels like I don't like him or I don't think he's attractive when, from my perspective, it's really not the case at all.
- [04:43]
Nick
Before you, you know, got leaned into your faith a little bit more and the sex started decline you said you guys had sex about every couple weeks, which is not a lot. How would you describe individually, you and your boyfriend in terms of like, how, you know, like sexual? I mean, you got not. I don't know, what's the word? But like, I don't know. I don't know, like, how some people are just like hyper. Like, you know, they really. Some people are less. Less into it. Where. How would you describe yourself?
- [05:11]
Chris
Yeah, I think definitely kind of we're more on opposite sides of the spectrum. I think my boyfriend is a lot more horny than I would be. I feel like I'm kind of. I can go like without sex if I wanted to, but it's something that is fun for like a romantic setting or romantic time. Whereas for my boyfriend it's like anytime is fine.
- [05:29]
Nick
When you kind of made this personal choice. Yeah, how did, like, it sounds almost like it kind of just went cold turkey because, like, listen, you can, you, you can be. You don't have to have sex to have physical touching, your relationship to have intimacy. You know, you can certainly round the bases again. I don't know how that fits in with your kind of spiritual compass, but there are ways to do that. Why do you feel like it just kind of went completely non existent?
- [06:04]
Chris
Yeah, I almost feel like because of all the conversations, arguments about the situation, I feel like I almost started getting insecure and embarrassed about any type of intimacy just because of kind of the, I guess, like, stigma around the conversation in general. Like, I think even now, like, we like, don't really kiss either as much or like, don't even have like a good makeout session because I get so, like, pressured and uncomfortable feeling like my boyfriend is wanting more or is disappointed because he's expecting more, but I told him no. So it's kind of the dynamic makes it uncomfortable because of how we've never been able to get on the same page for now over two years.
- [06:49]
Nick
Effy, like, how devout are you, Effy?
- [06:51]
Chris
I definitely have put my boundaries on, like, I don't want to have actual physical sex until marriage, but I definitely am flexible of like, doing other things and being more intimate in other ways. But I think more so. The reason why I've strayed away from it is the social dynamic between me and my boyfriend. Not necessarily like, oh, I won't do other things, or we can't have makeout sessions because of my religion. It's more so I'm just feeling like, oh, I'm letting him down because all I want to do is make out I don't want to go all the way. So now I'm not enjoying it, and I don't want to do it anymore because I feel gross.
- [07:27]
Nick
Did you grow up religious? Like, how did you become more religious?
- [07:31]
Chris
Yeah, I think I've always. I've always been religious, but I've always kind of gone in and out of it. And I think I've met my boyfriend at a time where I was kind of a little, like, more wild, and I was kind of, like, sleeping around. And I had been single for a while, and I wasn't really, like, comfortable in myself and in my own journey. So then after me and my boyfriend got closer and I felt, like, more comfortable in my journey, that's when I kind of started just, like, feeling more connected to my faith and my spirituality. And also just growing up since I'm pretty young, like, realizing things in the world and how I lean mostly on my faith in those situations, I just felt like it got a lot stronger because of that.
- [08:13]
Nick
Was there. Was there someone in your life that, like, brought you into that world, or was there a moment that really. You mentioned you were sleeping around. What did that look like for you?
- [08:23]
Chris
Yeah, honestly, probably, like, not as dramatic as I'm making it seem. I was, like, sleeping around with, like, two or three people at the time, which in my case was a lot more than I had ever done before, because I didn't have sex until freshman year of college, like, ever, and I had never been with anyone else until this time period. So I kind of was, like, experimenting, trying things out, getting over heartbreak, all of that fun stuff.
- [08:48]
Nick
I mean, listen, I can't. You know, I don't. I don't want to, you know, like, your faith is your faith. It's clearly important to you. I don't want you to. Not.
- [08:59]
Alexis
I don't.
- [08:59]
Nick
How do I want to say this? Like, you know, I grew up very religious, grew up Catholic, so I know all about, like, religious guilt and things like that, and. And I've been able to kind of let go of that. I'm curious, in your life, like, what are some things that you do that technically your faith tells you you shouldn't be doing?
- [09:19]
Chris
Yeah, I would say I do drink a lot. Like, me and my boyfriend go out a lot. Like, we go, like, to the clubs, things like that. I do occasionally smoke weed as well. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Like, things like, I'm not super big into, like, conservative, like, what I. And things like that. I'm pretty open with those types of things. I Think maybe for me growing up, like, sex was, like, the huge. No, no. It was like anything else is like, okay, it could be here and there, like the Bible can misinterpret, but sex is, like, absolutely no. Like, everybody says it's a no. Like, you can't do it. So I think that's kind of like, where the line was for me was that sex was kind of always brought up as the biggest issue of that something that you would be condemned to do.
- [10:06]
Nick
Why do you think that is?
- [10:07]
Chris
I don't know. I'm. I definitely think that it was something that was brought up a lot when I was younger, like, in, like, youth group and things at church. And, like, kind of as you're growing up in those environments, like, we had so many seminars of, like, oh, we're talking about sex this week. We're talking about sex today. The girls and the boys are separated, and we're going to talk about all the consequences that, you know, in your faith and in your life, that sex will have. And I think it really stuck with me kind of as I grew up.
- [10:36]
Nick
Do you live with your boyfriend?
- [10:38]
Chris
Yeah, I do.
- [10:40]
Nick
How do you feel about that?
- [10:41]
Chris
I had a lot of arguments with my family when I first decided to move in with him, because, same thing. They were like, yeah, you can't move in with a man. Like, that's not cool. Like, you're gonna be in temptation. And I was like, more so leaning on the side of. It's not that big of a deal for me. I think for me, when it comes to, like, sex, it's not that big of a deal because I'm not that sexual of a person, so I don't feel tempted. But I'm sure my boyfriend is in a different boat when it comes to that, for sure.
- [11:12]
Nick
And how much do you think the opinions of the people you love in your community, the opinions of people centered around your faith, impact your decisions on your faith versus your relationship with God himself, so to speak, if that makes sense.
- [11:29]
Chris
Yeah, definitely. I definitely think a lot. I think that if, like, most of my family doesn't know that I drink as much as I do or that I smoke weed or things like that when I'm with family, like, with that clothes stuff, I have to, like, dress a lot more conservative than I do here at home. So I definitely think that their opinions of me do matter a lot. But I do definitely feel like I have kind of that internal conscious feeling that I'm sure you were saying that you have maybe felt when you were growing up of like, oh, that was like, really cool and fun and like, I have no regrets. And then it's like an hour later, I'm like, oh, my God, gosh, like, what have I done? Like, I'm going to hell. And I think about it for, like, hours after the fact.
- [12:11]
Nick
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I'm kind of bouncing around here because this is obviously, like, I don't know, kind of a challenging topic. And there's obviously, like, you know, your belief system is important to you. I know that. Here, here's what I know about God is that. And I, I'm stealing this from a line in a movie. It's a good movie. It's. It's the movie with Ben Stiller and, And Ben Stiller plays a Jewish rabbi and Edward Norton plays a Catholic priest, and they both fall in love with the same woman. It's a good movie. And in that movie there's a quote. Edward Norton, the priest, is talking to other priests and he's like, there's two things I know, that there is a God and I'm not him. And that stuck with me in the sense that, like, so much, not so much. Almost all of your belief system around faith has been given to you by people. Religion is such a powerful thing, obviously, right. You know, and all powerful things are often used for evil and are weaponized. And whether it's intentional or unintentional, the reason, you know, like the smoking weed and living with your boyfriend, I guess in the whole, like, you know, I don't know, we don't really know, you know, assuming there's a God and you die, what, what, what that conversation is going to be like with, with him or her, you know, in terms of, like, how you lived your life and things like that. And I think you just kind of. I think it's really important that you know that your relationship with your faith is, especially as you get older, is more dictated by your inner voice rather than the people around you. So much of. I think parents will use religion as a tool to guilt their children and into making the decisions they think that's best for them, you know, and that I think this is something to remember. And as you get older, I think it's just really important that you. You kind of move guilt free, you know, like, you're gonna make mistakes, you're gonna have consequences. But I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, you, you're, you know, you have this relationship with this man that you care about. I'm guessing you see A future with him.
- [14:29]
Alexis
Yes.
- [14:30]
Nick
But the reality is, is like, these choices you're making are. Are having an impact on it. What does a marriage look like with this man? When you're making these huge choices in your life that affect him? It's great that he's supportive, but supporting goes so far. You really kind of need a buy in, so to speak. And so you guys are going to have to bridge that gap a little bit. The religious people in that equation tend to move as if they're a little bit more righteous about their decisions. Like, hey, you have the moral compass. You're following your faith. He doesn't have necessarily a faith to follow, which makes, like, your choices feel like, a little bit more, like, almost like you have a right to make this choice, and he. He can't possibly ask you to, like, you know, go against that, so to speak. I imagine, like, you're aware of choices that your boyfriend is making that technically your faith doesn't, like, subscribe to or believe in. And, like, don't you think it's a little odd that you are planning on marrying a man that, like, your religion tells you that you're gonna burn and he's gonna burn in hell and you're. He's. You're gonna go to heaven, so to speak? It's like, I don't know, like, that silly. And I think religion's amazing, and I think it's very powerful, and it's done so many wonderful things for our culture and our world and things like that. And a lot of negative things, too. I just don't know if. I just don't think God's that trivial, you know, I just don't. And maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Like, again, maybe. Maybe I'm wrong. I just think moving through life with guilt and shame is not necessarily a way to. To. To make those choices. Am I making any sense? I know I'm kind of rambling.
- [16:14]
Chris
No. Yeah, definitely. I really liked how you were, like, kind of talking about having to bridge the gap, which I guess would be something I would love to get your perspective on. For someone who's not necessarily that religious of, like, what would be a way that, like, we could bridge the gap to have. Still have intimacy? Because I still want to have that intimacy with my boyfriend. Even with. Of the conversation with religion. Like, what are some ways that you would suggest trying to bridge that gap?
- [16:38]
Nick
Well, I think it starts with you being comfortable with your choices more than anything. I think you really just kind of have to own your choices and feel good about them. I'm not trying to encourage you to have sex. I am just simply saying that there are some interesting contradictions in the choices you make. And you, you are kind of, you know, when I say I think there is a God and I know I'm not him, you are, you know, like, obviously a lot of what your decisions you're making are based off of things you've lear, things you've learned have been passed on to you by people who have interpreted their faith in a certain way, and who knows if we're right or wrong. Listen, the Bible was written when women at 13 would get married and have children. And part of the reason why it was so easy to say, wait till you get married is because you would go through puberty. That's a horrifying. In modern times, a horrifying reality. And I don't even think you, this devout Christian, would, you know, suggest that we should maybe go back to the old ways, so to speak. Right. I don't think necessarily the Bible needs to evolve with the kind of the secular beliefs that, you know, society has adopted over the years. Not, not all of which are necessarily good. But, you know, I just don't, you know, it's like, I just don't think God is that fickle. I. I don't know. I don't think he's that petty. You know, to me, I don't like the golden rule. Treat people how you want to be treated, how you show up and how you help. Do you make people around you better? You know, do you inspire people? Do you make the, you know, tough sacrifices in your life to bring other people up and things like that. I feel, and that's. This is my personal belief, that that is going to hold more weight, you know, at my judgment day, so to speak, than if I, like, you know, had some sex. Especially if I was making, you know, doing it with someone I loved and that I cared about, you know, and I wasn't like, you know, I think so much of the conversations around sex and religion have to do with, like, you know, objectifying yourself and using sex as a way to curry favor with people and stuff like that. And I think in that context, you know, faith can be a very positive thing in how people, you know, you know, move, move through the world kind of sexually and things like that. Because I think obviously sex can be very destructive and people make poor choices, and sometimes they use sex as a way to cope with past trauma. And that can all be very, you know, and faith can Be a very powerful thing to help guide us from not making poor choices around sex. But in your case, kind of feels like you're making choices that are, you know, just like not having a positive impact on your life. And I don't know how, I don't know how like much that's like bringing you closer to God, so to speak, or ensuring that you're gonna go to heaven. I don't know. Like, I just don't think some of the choices you made as a 19 year old woman are gonna. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know, maybe God's really petty and he's gonna roll the tape and be like, you don't remember, but when you were 19 you did some crazy and I just don't think you belong here. You know, welcome to hell. But listen, it's took me a long time to get to that place where I'm comfortable in my decisions. And I'm certainly not a perfect person. I am no angel. I make, you know, I have all the. I was born with original sin, so to speak, like we all were. And that's why I think, you know, just becoming more confident in who you are in your choices. And not necessarily like, you know, every choice that you make that you know that like a mom or a dad or like a spiritual leader in your life might frown upon, upon doesn't necessarily mean that God feels the same way. They are human too. Am I making any sense? I don't know.
- [20:39]
Chris
Yeah, definitely. I think that kind of what you said about. I definitely agree with the fact that I maybe am like just trying to avoid like the way I'm feeling after by kind of saying that it's more of like a spiritual decision. Just because I'm trying to avoid the guilt and I'm trying to avoid the judgment of like, oh, if I just, just cut it out completely and I don't think about it, then I won't have to feel guilty about it anymore.
- [21:06]
Nick
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, but I just don't know how productive that is. How old are you again?
- [21:11]
Chris
25.
- [21:12]
Nick
So let's assume you live to your 80. You know, I just wonder how like just I don't know what your life's going to bring and the challenges you're going to face and the moral like, you know, fork roads in your life. And I just, it just feels like sex with your boyfriend, the man that you plan on marrying, is going to change much of that. I could be wrong. I don't know. But that is. That is how I live my life and how I show up for people and what I do behind closed doors when people aren't looking. And the choices I make, I think will. You know, I don't know. For me, I've become more of. Even though I hate the word spirit, when I was a hardcore Catholic, when people be like, I'm not religious, I'm spiritual, I would kind of, like, roll my eyes at them, like, in kind of in a righteous, judgmental way. I bet you do that, too. But the truth is, I've be, You know, as I've become less religious, I've become more spiritual because I don't. I. I'm not like an atheist. I. I don't. I do believe in a greater power. I. I believe in energy because I. I feel like energy is a tangible thing you can feel and exchange with people. And I guess I just got away from, like. I very much kind of relate to that shame or, like, you know, early in my. Yeah, you know, like, I. I fel. I remember being on the Bachelorette the first time, and there was a lie detector date that I wasn't a part on. But one of the questions was, like, how many have you slept with more or less than 20 people or something? At that time, I had slept with less than 10 people in my life. And a lot of it was because I had. Mostly, I had three serious relationships in my 20s. So that was a big part of it. But it was, you know, I've made up for, you know, into my 30s. I really got less worried about that stuff. It is freeing. I don't know. It is freeing to just not. You have the ability to justify your choices like everyone else, and you do justify your choices that go against your faith every day. That is just a reality. And you are picking and choosing which ones to prioritize more than the other.
- [23:21]
Chris
Yeah, sure.
- [23:22]
Nick
In Catholicism, I'm pretty sure it's considered like a. A cardinal sin not to go to church every Sunday. I don't know, like a big deal to, like, not go to church every Sunday. I don't know. Something like that. There's. There's some real, like, basic. It's just like when that's. I'm not supposed to do that or I'm supposed to do that, and it's just like, you know, so you're. You're. You're picking. You know, if you lived a fully devout life, it would probably be even a lot more hardcore of a life than you're living now. And I Think. I think your soul's probably fine. I'm, you know, but who am I to say? That's just my opinion. And I guess what I'm trying to say is this, like, there's a little bit of hypocrisy in that. And like. And I guess what I'm saying, you know, and it. And it's. It's stopping you from. Of moving this relationship forward just because, like, he, you know, into intimacy is important in a relationship. Your boyfriend feeling desired and valued is important in a relationship. And it doesn't mean, like, the only way to do that is because you owe him sex, but it's just like, it sounds like your relationship is, like, completely eliminated that from your relationship. And now I'm guessing your relationship feels more like a friendship and it feels more like a com. Companionship. But, like, there is something to be exchanged through that type of intimacy. So I would start with, like, you know, what base is. Like, you know, like, what bases are you willing to go to without feeling guilty? I don't know. Start there. But there has to be a level of comfort, because it doesn't. It's not going to do you any good to start doing things with your boyfriend just because you feel guilty that you're not giving it to him, because then you'll still be left with that shame and guilt, and then that's going to create a whole nother weirdness between you and your boyfriend. You know, possibly resentment, you know, like, yeah, you ended up. You guilted, you. You made me. You're gonna feel like he made you do it. You really have to, like, get comfortable with your choices. And I would invite you or suggest that maybe. I know, you know, because, like, sex. You're right. Like, sex is always that one thing in religion that can wrote, like, they can really just harp on, you know, don't do it. You know, like, there's all these. But I don't know. I. I also think it's a little antiquated and outdated, so to speak. Also, like, where are you and your boyfriend on your, like, relationship journey to get engaged and get married?
- [25:42]
Chris
I definitely think, like, soon. Ish. Which is also kind of the hard thing is we've talked about, like, getting engaged within the next year. So to me it's like. Like he always is like, oh, so once we get married, like, are we gonna have sex again? And I'm like, yeah, of course. But it's hard for him to believe since it's been so uncomfortable with us the past couple years of our, like, Relationship.
- [26:06]
Nick
Yeah, because part of that he's just thinking like, I don't know, maybe I'm just like dating a non sexual person. Maybe she's just not into this shit, you know, Type.
- [26:14]
Chris
Yeah, exactly.
- [26:15]
Nick
And you've developed a level of comfort with like not being, you know, not finding that side of you that can kind of let go and be a little freaky.
- [26:26]
Chris
I don't know. How do you go about with your, like when you were saying you had kind of tried to get over the hump of feeling those shameful feelings and feeling guilt, how did you kind of go about kind of being able to kind of get over that hump and get more in touch with, with yourself and your journey?
- [26:42]
Nick
I guess I just learned to stop caring about it. I kind of, I don't know, it wasn't like some epiphany. It was just more like, am I going to spend the rest of my life? You know, because like, as a human being, you, you have so many moments. I'm having memories that I don't even need to speak on or talk because it's a little like. But it just sounds, I mean, so silly. The, like the mental gymnastics I would do to try to like make up for, you know, a temporary choice that I made or whatever. And it's just, I guess I just got old enough to realize that like, this isn't sustainable. I think I'm a pretty decent person. I care about who I am as a person. I care about how I show up for people. I don't know if it has anything to do with this, but I was, I had a buddy come over. We were both raised Catholic. I've known him, I knew him since I was a kid and he grew up to be an atheist. And I remember asking him about like it was basically I said something like, it was a really kind of ignorant statement by me, but I basically implied that like, because he's an atheist, how are you a good person in a sense that like, how do you do right from wrong? As if like being religious was the only way to make good choices. And he kind of looked at me like I was stupid. Which is like, he doesn't have to believe in God to be a good person, to be kind and considerate and generous or gracious with people. I'm convinced that there are as many atheists in heaven, that there are priests and pastors because I'm aware of the power that it is to be a spiritual leader and the amount of human beings who are corrupted by the power that they have as a spiritual leader. And I don't think you have to necessarily. I could be wrong because, like, certainly the Bible doesn't suggest, you know, the step one is to believe. And for a non believer, the idea that they could live a pretty good life and be a really kind person and a good person and really show up for people and make sacrifices that help other people in their life, I think goes a lot more, a lot further than just, you know, saying all the right things and presenting as a really devout person and, and then, you know, and then making some, like, choice, you know, it's just like, is the person who's never had sex outside of marriage a guaranteed to go to heaven? I don't think so, you know,
- [29:20]
Samantha
so
- [29:20]
Nick
I think it just came down to just being, again, comfortable with who I am, being confident with the fact that, like, there are just so many rules and things. I'm, I'm following some of them. I'm, I'm choosing not to follow any of them. I, I. Let me ask you, how are you comfortable with living with your boyfriend and smoking weed and drinking alcohol the way you do? And that's not a. I'm not challenging that. I want to know, like, how, how you got to that place, because that's the same play, that's how you're going to get to being more intimate with your bo Boyfriend, is because you were able to just be like, you know what? I don't think that's. This you. I don't think it's that big of a deal. I'm gonna do it anyways. I'm gonna still be a good person. And I don't think me smoking some weed every once in a while is gonna be the thing that my God cares the most when I show up and ask him if I can, like, join his party.
- [30:12]
Chris
Yeah, I think kind of almost like, exactly kind of what you said is that I kind of like, I would do it a couple times and then be like, well, like, what harm did me smoking weed in my bedroom, watching a movie do? Like, it didn't make me any worse of a person. No one is hurt. Like, there's nothing against my religion that goes with that. Like, there aren't consequences. I know there can be consequences when you, like, drink and smoke and things like that. Of course. But for me, like, I was like, well, what harm is it doing? It doesn't make me any less of a Christian or less of a person. So I don't think it's that big of a deal. And something to harp on which is a good thing that I could be able to kind of contribute to this sex thing as well. Because I think in the past I've had a lot more consequences when it comes to sex and sexual experiences that it's kind of tainted that. So maybe if I find more safety in my sex with my boyfriend, then it'll feel like it's less of a. Less of a big deal.
- [31:08]
Nick
Well, one, the thing that came to mind when you talked, it's just like, so, you know, so much in 2026, sex in the worst possible way. And I've participated in hookup culture and sex positive. And if people want to have sex and they're not religious, party on, you know, but sex is way more powerful and way more of a beautiful thing and way more safe and way more. And has a lot more benefits when it's done as an act of love and not as an act of lust. And certainly I've done both. But for you, I wonder if maybe just feeling better about the fact that if you are going to participate in intimacy that goes maybe against your religion, as long as it's an act of love and an act of connection with someone you do love, how can that be a bad thing, so to speak, you know, and I'm not here to tell you that, you know, you have to decide for yourself, but like, kind of, that's kind of how I got there. Well, I mean, I went past that. I. I was. I was definitely doing a lot of lustful things and I was comfortable with that. But for you, to me, that sounds like a pretty good compromise in a sense of like, maybe it's just like, you know, as long as it. As long as this is an act of love, as long as it's an act of connecting with someone I love, as long as this brings me closer to the I want to bond with and have a stronger relationship, hell, I mean, you could. Again, I don't think you should, like, have sex with your boyfriend because it's going to make him religious. But, like, clearly there's a disconnect between your boyfriend and he knows that part of the reason why he's not having sex with the woman he loves is because of her faith that he doesn't share with his girlfriend. And there's just no way that isn't going to bleed into some kind of resentment about your faith that he doesn't share. And I just wonder if, like, maybe if you could eliminate that thing that might be something that would ultimately, like, he would know, like, in a weird way would bring him like closer to a chance to share your faith. Because it's like right now it feels like God's the reason he's not getting laid, you know?
- [33:07]
Chris
Yeah, that makes sense.
- [33:08]
Nick
And I just think there's a balance in life and you just have to find that balance that you're comfortable with, as I think is the goal. And you know, listen, you're 25. You're still like, you're still really young. You're seven years removed from being a minor. And I say that only because I think the impact your parents opinions and your community have on you are much stronger than it is for me as a 45 year old man. I don't really seek the approval of my parents when it comes to my choices anymore. My moral compass is solely based off of what I think I should do. I don't feel the need to explain my choices to my parents anymore. I don't need their approval. I know I have their love. I know they think of me as a good person. I know I make choices that I don't necessarily always agree with or that they would do. And I know that I have their love. I don't need their approval to feel good about my choices. That does take time. And I think just you knowing that, that, and getting better at knowing, not needing the approval of your, of, of other humans to feel closer to your faith. Because I, you know, you know who's not going to be there at judgment Day. Your parents, you know, your pastor. It's not going to be a, it's not going to be a group of your peers deciding if you're worthy.
- [34:39]
Chris
Yeah, that's true.
- [34:40]
Nick
You know, and, but so many of your choices right now, I would argue have more to do with the opinions of the people around you and what they think you are and whether they think you're worthy than what you, than actual God.
- [34:57]
Chris
I think it's great to have the perspective of someone who is kind of more removed from the religion because when I try to talk to friends or family or anyone about it, it's like, no, you got to stick to it. You just got to put push through.
- [35:10]
Nick
And you know, as they say, misery loves company.
- [35:13]
Samantha
Yeah.
- [35:14]
Nick
And so if, if you have someone making a sacrifice, it's easier to make that sacrifice if other people are making that sacrifice with them. So again, a lot of the, a lot of the convincing and the shame and the judgment that comes from our peers in our community, I don't, I don't think is as righteous as they're selling it to be. I think it is more about, you know, making you make the choices they're making, makes them feel better about the choices they're making. I think it's intimidating for everyone, religious or not, to find people to find their own kind of strength in themselves and their moral compass and not seek the approval of others. And that can be very intimidating to people. And they can be jealous of it. And we don't really read it as jealousy or things like that because it's all centered around God and faith and people like, like, and. And that's where, like, the weaponization of religion often comes in. And I don't think any of that has anything to do with you going to heaven or, you know, are you being a. A good person? You know, I think a lot of religion is about control. And a lot of people use the power of faith to control the people around them. And they call that religion in faith. And I don't think it is on a practical side, and I don't know. This is good advice. I'm just spitballing here, but like, maybe it's what's something. And you don't need to answer this question, but like, what is an act of intimacy that you haven't been doing with your boyfriend that you could start doing and you could feel good about that choice and not. And certainly those feelings of shame and guilt will seep in because that's what you're familiar with. But like, I want to do this. I feel good about this. It's an act of love. I'm connecting with my boyfriend, the man I love, and just being good with that choice and not allowing yourself to think what mom say or what, you know, what is this? You know, let's. You know, and allowing yourself to go there and practicing that, if that makes sense. And then, you know, if you can get there, maybe there's another thing you can do. You're allowed to be sexy and feel sexy and do things that I feel like the most devout people in your faith would frown upon on. I guarantee a lot of the people who are making you feel bad about your choices are doing the very things that. And they're not telling you about it.
- [37:34]
Chris
Yeah, that's true.
- [37:36]
Nick
You gotta find your moral compass. You gotta find your, your. You gotta be comfortable with your choices. And you just gotta own your choices and know whether it's sex or anything else, you are not gonna be a perfect person. You are gonna make mistakes, you are going to screw up, you're gonna have moments of weakness, and I don't think you have to, to martyr yourself. You know, I just, you know, feeling bad about a choice isn't going to make that choice any better. So you can either just stop doing it, which you did with the sex part. But it's obviously like, created other points of tension in your life.
- [38:15]
Chris
The points of tension that it's creating have become almost more of an issue than just the guilt itself from the sex because it's just kind of tornadoed different parts of my life that didn't necessarily need to be tornadoed.
- [38:28]
Nick
Yeah. And you know, you mentioned you, you tapped on some maybe, you know, choices you were making when you were quote, unquote, sleeping around and maybe that felt maybe there were some consequences there that you had to face or. And I think in those moments, the easy, you know, like, that's when people will often turn to faith. In those moments, it's not the answer to everything. And I think sometimes religion is a really easy get out of jail free card for people. It's like, oh, I'll find God now and I'll make some choices and that will redeem me. But again, I don't think going to church and saying you're religious and picking and choosing which things you're going to follow ultimately is going to be the thing that makes you a good person. I think how you treat other people, especially when no one's looking, is to me a greater indicator of who you are as a person than whether you decide to have sex once a week with your boyfriend, who you love, who you live with, who you plan on marrying, who you plan on having children with. And who knows, maybe you guys don't get married. Maybe he fucks up, maybe you fall in love. I don't think you would have, I don't think if you start having sex with your boyfriend and a year later, you, you, you break up for whatever reason, that that is going to mean that that was a mistake. Like, how do you feel about divorce?
- [39:48]
Chris
Yeah, definitely. Like, I mean, no one likes it or like, as much as possible.
- [39:52]
Nick
I don't, like, what would you do if you married this guy? And I'm not saying he doesn't do that, but let's say he just like started cheating on you constantly. What if we, what if he became a, you know what, he started robbing banks and just became an abusive person, you know, and what if you were forced to leave that relationship if for no other reason, for your own safety and the safety of your children and whatever I, I. Do you think God would condemn you to Hell, because you chose. You know, I just, I don't think so. You know, I don't think that would make all the choices you made with someone regrettable because, you know, you didn't do that. You know, what if you guys got stranded on an island and you couldn't have a priest or a reverend marry you? You know, would you not be married? I don't know. The world is different than in, you know, 2000 BC or whatever the.
- [40:44]
Chris
Yeah, no, I definitely agree.
- [40:46]
Nick
I would just be careful about being dogmatic about like following the Bible because you are picking and choosing is all I'm saying.
- [40:52]
Chris
No, yeah, and I definitely agree, which is kind of why I've even gotten myself in this situation because that's kind of more how my like spirituality and relationship with God is that it's like, for example, the divorce thing is like, I don't think people who get divorced are going to hell if they like get divorced because of an abusive relationship or something like that. Like, and with the smoking and drinking, things like that. I think it's more like my relationship with God is more fluid, which is why I'm like trying to discover this certain patch and why I'm feeling the ways that I'm feeling and how to potentially make it better in my relationship without like, I don't know, like making me feel worse. Does that make sense?
- [41:34]
Nick
Yeah, yeah. Also, like, again, like, I just, I also think it's really important that if you do want to marry this man and you want to continue to be a faith based person, that you are going to have to bring them along somehow, some way.
- [41:46]
Chris
I feel like making the religion more of a tool in the toolbox instead of like the entire machine, I feel like would be something that would be helpful, especially like in this situation. Like, oh yeah, religion's important to me, so I can use it as a tool and I can lean into it. But it doesn't have to encompass, I guess, every single small decision in my life because it's so nuanced.
- [42:08]
Nick
Yeah, because right now it feels like, which a lot of, I think a lot of young people do, you're making choices based off of what you've been told to make. And a lot of the choice, you know, especially with your boyfriend, a non religious person, you know, I'm sure there have been conversations like, well, why do you do that? Or why do you do this? And your answer is usually something around like, well, because of what I'm supposed to do. And I think you should start making choices because they, what you want to do. And I don't mean like do whatever you want, but I think it need. You need to believe in the choices you're making. Otherwise they're not really your choices. And I think you should make sacrifices that feel like sacrifices that are not because you, you know, not. The want part is maybe a bad way of saying it, but it's just more. It should be deeper than like, I don't know, because I've been told to. I don't really believe in it all that much, but I don't want to. I don't want to have the shame, so I'm doing it. I think that's a more difficult path for you and your boyfriend to find a common ground when it comes to faith. I would love you to like be convicted in why you making choices. Believe in the choices you're making. So that way you can communicate those choices to your boyfriend in a way that maybe he can relate to you and understand and then you can kind of share that bond rather than like, I just, you know. Because someone like him, if it doesn't make sense to him, it's just going to feel like trivial and. And you know, I don't know.
- [43:32]
Chris
Yeah, no, definitely. I think that's. I think that's great advice.
- [43:35]
Nick
Was this helpful?
- [43:36]
Chris
Yes, definitely.
- [43:39]
Nick
Well, fascinating topic. I mean, I think a lot of people are challenged with this, but yeah, I mean I. I would just think about what's really important to you and know that you're a good person and, and know that you're not going to make every great choice. And I don't think again that that meeting you'll have with God is going to be a. Let's go through every decision you've ever made and make sure that it's what I would. I don't know, it just seems. It doesn't make much sense and I just think being a good person carries a lot more weight and maybe think about that when you're making some of these more specific choices that people around you are guilting you intimate making.
- [44:25]
Chris
Yeah, for sure. It's less complicated.
- [44:27]
Nick
Yeah.
- [44:28]
Chris
And it might appear.
- [44:29]
Nick
I really think it is. And you will have to find your own path but be confident in the choices that you're making. And I don't think the, in the. The daily shame and the practice of, Of. Of that is. I think it's a. It's a thing. I think it's a coping mechanism that we do to make ourselves feel about our choices. I don't think it necessarily brings us closer to Our. Our God.
- [44:51]
Chris
Yeah, for sure.
- [44:52]
Nick
All right. Good luck out there.
- [44:54]
Samantha
All right. Yeah.
- [44:55]
Chris
Thank you.
- [44:56]
Nick
Keep us updated.
- [44:58]
Chris
Will do. Thank you.
- [44:59]
Nick
All right. Take care. Bye Bye. What's up everybody? Don't forget that all Vile Files plus content is ad free. Plus for all you asknick listeners out there. Your update specials are ready and waiting for you. I know you are very interested on the follow up calls. What has happened to these people after they heard my advice? Did it help them? Did it hurt them? Has our life changed? Well you can find out on update plus and you can get update plus behind vile files plus so go to vilefiles.com to sign up. You will be glad that you did. Most of us have to figure out how to manage money as we go. Having a clear picture of where your money is going helps a ton. Monarch tracks your accounts, investments, spending and saving goals all in one place, making it easy to understand your financial picture. Monarch helps you set goals, plan for big purchases, and see whether you are on track track before it's too late to adjust. Use Monarch's AI Assistant to answer questions about your finances and get AI insights into your spending habits and receive a weekly recap highlighting spending spikes, net worth changes and upcoming expenses. Helpful features like Bill Split make it easy to divide expenses with friends, while easy to read charts and investment tracking help you stay organized. With two more kids in our household, you never can save enough and this is something that's been really great for me and Natalie just to get more insight in our overall spending. When we want to save for something as a couple, we can sit down and talk about what our goals are and prioritize things that we need or versus things that we want. And Monarch really gives us a big 360 picture insight of our total finances. Every dollar counts in this economy and Monarch will help you manage yours. Write your own money story with Monarch. Use code V I A l l@monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year@monarch.com with code V I A L L. Well, if you are looking to stay in shape and maybe life is a little bit too busy and you've been working out and you feel like your routine's getting a little stale and mundane, well you got to check out Ladder. I discovered Ladder a few months ago and so glad that I did. I'm someone who is comfortable working out. I've always enjoyed working out, but for me I get into these bad routines of doing the same thing over and over. And when that happens, I, I get less and less results from the same workouts. But a ladder has changed that for me. Every workout includes ear and coaching with guidance, form cues and motivation. Like your own personal trainer, they have strength training, pilates, glute focus workouts, kettlebells, bodybuilding at home, dumbbell workouts and more. Basically, whatever you are looking for a workout Ladder has you covered. The app automatically tracks your weights, your reps. Every training team includes a coach and community where you can ask questions and stay motivated. So maybe you're just really busy, you're traveling a lot, you can get an amazing workout in 15, 20 minutes from the comfort of your room outside. Maybe the weather's nice in the summer in your hotel room with Ladder and you will notice the difference. Both, both in the variety of workouts, it becomes more fun and the results are remarkably noticeable. Remove the guesswork with Ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking, everything planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to Ladder Fit V I A L L and take a quiz to find your perfect ladder plan. Use my link to get a free 7 day trial with no credit card and you get $10 off your first month if you join. Join. How's it going?
- [48:15]
Samantha
Good. How are you?
- [48:16]
Nick
Good. What's your name?
- [48:17]
Samantha
My name is Samantha and I'm wondering if I'm in the wrong for telling my sister in law not to bring her quote unquote family to my gender reveal.
- [48:27]
Nick
Okay, how old are you?
- [48:29]
Samantha
28.
- [48:30]
Nick
All right, well just give me the backstory.
- [48:32]
Samantha
So I've been married into the family for eight years and I love my sister in law. To be fair, she's always had a different boyfriend or a different partner come around. And specifically for my wedding she had a guy there that she really was not even happy with at the time and she still brought him anyway because of course you're gonna give your sister in law plus one to your wedding. But I just feel like she's been with about eight to 10 people since my husband and I have been together and I do love her but I am just, just, I just feel like I, I'm not an inclusive person in general. I feel like, and good to know. I like things small. So when I sent out invitations for this gender reveal, it was very like a family only situation. So my sister in law has a niece, she is 10 and my sister in law's new boyfriend, which I think they had been seeing each other, they've been Seeing each other for maybe a month or two to. So not, not too serious. He has two kids, two daughters. 10. 10? Yes, the boyfriend, 10 years old and like 14 years old. So my niece and one of his daughters are like best friends. So my niece, which my sister in law never told me, can't come to the gender reveal. And then I heard from my mother in law that my sister in law was going to bring her boyfriend, her new boyfriend and his two kids without my niece as well. So I texted her and I just kind of told her that I was surprised to be meeting them that way, number one. And number two, that I just felt like that was unfair for my niece.
- [50:17]
Nick
Why is it unfair for your niece?
- [50:19]
Samantha
Because I felt like at 10 years old she would feel left out.
- [50:23]
Nick
Why can't she come?
- [50:25]
Samantha
Oh, she will be with her dad. So she is with the other parent that weekend.
- [50:30]
Alexis
Okay.
- [50:30]
Samantha
And I didn't check on that beforehand, which she had told me if it was really that important for her to be there, you should have checked with me, which I understand, but I didn't check with her on that.
- [50:40]
Nick
So the 10 year old said that to you?
- [50:43]
Samantha
No, my sister in law said that to me.
- [50:45]
Nick
Oh, okay.
- [50:46]
Samantha
Yeah.
- [50:46]
Nick
And so then ultimately you were like, you can't come with the boyfriend and his kids.
- [50:52]
Samantha
I kind of, I feel like maybe it's just my pregnancy hormones, but I did, I did, did tell her like I was surprised to be meeting them that way basically that I didn't really want to meet them that way because my family is included in this.
- [51:05]
Nick
What way do you want to meet them?
- [51:08]
Samantha
Just in a casual setting, maybe not at something that important like finding out my baby's gender. And again, maybe that's very selfish and stupid of me, but I just, I just pictured it differently and that was kind of my way of probably telling them not to come.
- [51:23]
Nick
Gotcha. Do you listen to this show?
- [51:25]
Samantha
Yes, A lot.
- [51:28]
Nick
Was there a caller or a topic in the past that prompted you to be curious about this, your situation and what I would say?
- [51:37]
Samantha
Oh, there's a lot of different things I probably should know that you would say. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?
- [51:43]
Nick
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely. But I'm just more like, was there, did you listen to an episode and, and, and was it like close enough? And you know, because we do a lot of like, you know, in law family dynamic conversations and I think we recently had some like, you know, should I invite this person to my wedding? Conversations and things like that.
- [52:02]
Samantha
Yeah, Last week's. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [52:04]
Nick
Did that resonate with you at all?
- [52:06]
Samantha
Yes. And I do feel like I don't think of myself as a stubborn person. But I do think maybe I am trying to get my way in this and maybe that's just causing me to try to be miserable.
- [52:17]
Nick
Sure. Just out of curiosity, the boyfriend she's no longer dating who went to your wedding, did that somehow make your wedding less memorable or worse, knowing they didn't have to end up together?
- [52:28]
Samantha
No. But I will say there is quite a bit of photos that are really no longer usable.
- [52:34]
Nick
Usable in what way?
- [52:35]
Samantha
Because he was in them.
- [52:36]
Nick
Well, usable in what way? How are you using your wedding photos?
- [52:38]
Samantha
I guess, I guess just in general of like when you look back, I don't know, like I'm always like, oh, these photos seem like they're no good anymore just if the ex boyfriend is in them. Which I mean, maybe that's just my own thing and maybe.
- [52:53]
Nick
How are they no good?
- [52:56]
Samantha
Just because I feel like that person's not around anymore. So I feel like they're just in the past now. I don't know. I've never thought about it like this, I guess before.
- [53:04]
Nick
What if a parent dies? Is it no good?
- [53:08]
Samantha
No, no, definitely not. Definitely not. I mean, definitely not the same. But I just feel like when, especially if a breakup is bad like theirs was, it's just kind of like I don't feel comfortable bringing those photos out in the family anymore.
- [53:24]
Nick
I guess because you're worried about your sister in law and her like mental health.
- [53:28]
Samantha
Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Maybe not maybe.
- [53:31]
Nick
Have you asked her or like are you making that decision for her?
- [53:36]
Samantha
Probably assuming that, yeah.
- [53:38]
Nick
I mean, listen, it sounds like you are using these life events, events that you are obviously the center of and certainly there are important moments in your life as a control mechanism to get what you want. Also sounds like you're using it as a way to judge your sister in law.
- [53:58]
Samantha
Maybe,
- [54:01]
Nick
I don't know. It sounds like she's had a hard, tough time in dating and romance and why? Who knows, There may be some family history, some. Some childhood trauma. Maybe she makes some bad choices. I don't know. You have obviously been lucky with your love life, it sounds like. And I imagine that you tell yourself it comes from a place of love and you're just trying to help her. But I don't know if making her feel more unsuccessful in dating by. By. It's. But you know, it's like listen, until you find someone worthwhile, you can't be Included or you can't, they can't come.
- [54:39]
Samantha
Yeah.
- [54:40]
Nick
You clearly are very judgmental of the people she dates, which is, you know, I'm sure, like I'm judgmental. I, I, that's like only human. It's not the end of the world. But it, it's, I guess it doesn't really make sense. It's like, I think it's safe to say that you, without even knowing anything or much doubt that this is going to be her person. Person. And like you said, most of your choices are based off of like, well, I don't think this person is going to be in her life in two years, so why should I come to my thing? And then, then you throw in her face that you have an expectation of how you should meet this person. Like, who gives a shit how you meet them? You don't believe in them anyways.
- [55:20]
Samantha
Yeah, I think it's tough for me because I grew up. So she is divorced, which, that was a really rough situation and I really feel for her with that because it really, it really sucks. Sucks. Her divorce was really bad, but she got divorced and I grew up in a divorced household. She actually, her parents have been together their whole lives. It's a very, like she has a very, very good role model of what love looks like, in my opinion. My parents were divorced and my dad would constantly date different girls and bring them around me. And I know this sounds really silly, but I feel, I almost feel like, like it's the same, like dad brings a girl around, I meet them, I get excited about them or you know, I get used to seeing them around or they have kids and I get used to having a relationship with those kids and then all of a sudden, you know, they're gone. Something happens and I almost feel like it may be the same feeling that I'm feeling. And maybe I know that's like my own issues, but maybe that's the situation of why I feel so passionate about it because no one else seems, seems to care but me.
- [56:28]
Nick
No one else cares about what?
- [56:29]
Samantha
About his new family coming.
- [56:32]
Nick
Like that would make sense. We know now with being over therapized by the Internet, the childhood trauma obviously has effect on our lives and things like that, but I think you have to ask yourself who you were. You, it's like quite a realization that you had there because you have a way of like justifying your choices as a way of like protecting others. And maybe what you're really doing is protecting yourself from something that like, honestly, like you're also not 10, 10 anymore. You're not 15, you're not 13, you're an adult. So obviously you can hand, you can handle. And now people come and go out of your life all the time. I understand that. I'm sure that was confusing as a young girl to know like who you should invest in and who's important. And it was probably confusing. But you're not that person anymore. So I think it's, it's great that you're recognizing something from your past might be bleeding into your adult life under the do you want to be right or do you want to be happy theme. Something you should consider and think about is how much energy and drama you are bringing into these very important moments that you say are important into your life. I mean you've spent, I can safely say, more time thinking about this than the actual gender reveal.
- [57:49]
Samantha
Yeah, probably, that's probably correct.
- [57:51]
Nick
And so you've spent more time thinking about who your sister in law is dating and how you're going to meet her boyfriend that you don't believe in. And, and, and that there's gonna, there's supposed to be some like ceremony about how you're supposed to meet her boyfriends. And you've invested way more energy and time and discussions with your husband and family members than just like you know, focusing and wondering am I gonna have a boy? Am I gonna have a girl, you know, fantasizing about, you know, that baby and talking with your husband about your husband about husbands, talking with your husband about, you know, what do you think we're gonna have. You've spent more time on sister in law than you have on yourself and your baby and your husband and your family and your wedding. It sounds like you spent more time reminiscing about some random person, person who is at your wedding than you're wedding yourself. You know, I hope that you talk more about the fun moments about your wedding and the cool moments and all the fun. You know, I'm sure you have a zillion pictures. I have not looked at our wedding photos in some time. Aside from, you know, the, the handful I've posted on social media or the ones that are in my phone still. And there's so many more that we have at our wedding. We, we got, we had a, the Waffle House food truck come as like a little late night snack. It's kind of a fun little like plug. And the girl working for Waffle House who showed up and brought the van was the food truck was a fan and boy she was at the center of the dance floor. And she is front and center in one of our wedding videos. And, like, Nana and I will. If, you know, while we haven't watched that video in some time, we'll laugh at this, like, random fucking chick who's in her wedding video. I don't even know her name. I don't know who she is. I know she worked for the Waffle House at some point, and she was probably a badger fan at some point. But, like, that in no way ruins the video. It doesn't make us not want to watch. Is a fun story. And it just seems like you are focusing your energy on things that aren't bringing you happiness and joy, and they're not allowing you to focus on the things that matter. And maybe right now, there's aspects of your life you feel like you don't have control. I would think about that, and I would think about the fact that when we don't have control, we find trivial things in our life that we can control because it gives us a sense of balance. And I just wonder if it would just be a lot easier for you to just not care.
- [60:11]
Samantha
I also feel really bad, too, because as soon as I said the thing about, you know, I don't. I didn't expect to meet them that way. And just in general being like, you know, it's unfair. She immediately was like, well, then they're not gonna come.
- [60:27]
Alexis
I won't bring them.
- [60:28]
Samantha
And immediately after that, I felt bad, and I realized. Well, I kind of somewhat felt like I was in the wrong. But then I was like, but it's. It's. It was frustrating to me because then it was like I got exactly what I wanted or I thought I wanted. And then that. That almost felt like maybe that wasn't even what I wanted in the first place. So it's. It's kind of a difficult. It's kind of a difficult thing when you think you're right and you want to be right so bad, but then you realize it didn't really feel that good anyway.
- [60:58]
Nick
Yeah, well, I mean, it sounds like you maybe have your answer. I mean, listen, feeling right is a very dangerous thing. I've learned this many times in my life and even recently, because also your opinions change.
- [61:12]
Samantha
Yeah.
- [61:13]
Nick
Yeah. It's just like, you seem oddly fixated on people you don't care about who show up at events that matter to you.
- [61:23]
Samantha
Yeah.
- [61:23]
Nick
And I don't know why people you don't care about, you care so much about.
- [61:28]
Samantha
Yeah, that's a good point. Well, it helps to hear that from you. Because sometimes people won't give you the tough love of it and the reality of it. So that's helpful to hear from you. That helps a lot.
- [61:39]
Nick
Yeah. Also, just like, your husband doesn't care.
- [61:44]
Samantha
Yeah, he doesn't.
- [61:46]
Nick
When you're making decisions like this, like, as a couple about things, these moments, you guys, this. I mean, you know, your wedding gender reveal, I'm not telling you how to do it. Nally and I have done two gender reveals. We just did it with ourselves. And that's just a choice because for us, it was like, this is for us, you know, and, And. And that's cool that you're having a party, you know, but it's like, why don't you think about being. If. If be inclusive, not exclusive. You know, we're. We're actually a little bit exclusive with our gender reveal because it is about us. But like, if you want, you know, it's hard to be that. It's like you're being inclusive while also still being exc. Exclusive. Like, it's like your gender reveals like some sort of, like, popular nightclub that you want people to feel cool. You know, those nightclubs that make people line outside, you know, even though inside it's, like, empty, because they want to give a perception of, like, exclusivity. And like, the way that you are picking and choosing who should be able to come and not come is like painting a picture that, like, this event has more to do with you and your husband finding out the gender of your baby. It's like, I don't know, something else. What's special about it is that you and your husband get to find out the gender of your baby. You get to share in that moment. You know, obviously you're bringing people that you love to share, but you are focusing on all the people. You don't care, and it's stopping you from actually having the moment that you say you want.
- [63:05]
Samantha
You are right. That sounds like it for sure.
- [63:10]
Nick
So how do you think you should go about rectifying this?
- [63:14]
Samantha
I. I don't know if there is any rectifying it.
- [63:18]
Nick
No, no, none.
- [63:20]
Samantha
Well, because when I did reach out to her and basically said, like. Because I did reach out to her after she told me that she just won't bring them. And I. I did reach out to her and I said. I. I said I really didn't want it to be like that because I did feel bad and I did. I didn't feel like that was the right decision. So I did reach out to her and she Said, no, we won't be going back and forth, forth with this and I just won't be bringing them. So simply put, she just, she just refused to bring them.
- [63:50]
Nick
You don't think there's anything to do?
- [63:52]
Samantha
Oh, I guess I could apologize. Is that what you mean?
- [63:56]
Nick
There you go.
- [63:59]
Alexis
I am no afraid.
- [64:00]
Samantha
I'm not afraid to apologize for sure. I mean, I did, I do feel like I did somewhat apologize, but I definitely think I could just do. Not just apology of like taking it back. An apology of like, hey, I sincerely feel bad that I, I didn't welcome your new family because it is true. How am I supposed to accept them if I'm not including them in anything? Just because I feel like they're not even going to be around for long. And that's kind of, that's not right. So.
- [64:26]
Nick
Yeah, you didn't do that. You were like, I, I feel like
- [64:29]
Samantha
it's like, like, never mind.
- [64:32]
Nick
Yeah, like you gave in. I think the. Again, I don't want to, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think if you called her up and said, hey, listen, can we talk? I want to apologize to you. I've been thinking a lot about how I've been going about this whole gender reveal. And I think, honestly, I think I've. I hope you know I love you and I care about you, but I think my love and my consideration for you, I have probably overstepped in a place in, in ways that I, I'm. Maybe you even like feel like I'm a judgmental or whatever. But, like, I was wrong and I was wrong for making you feel excluded and it was silly for me to do. And I would really love to meet your boyfriend and I hope that you bring him and I hope that you can forgive me for kind of acting this way. And if you don't come, I understand because I realize I made you feel a certain way, but it would mean a lot to me for you to be there and I would love for you to include anyone you would like to include. And I'm very sorry for making you feel this way. I think it's a lot different than. Well, I guess if you want to bring them, you can.
- [65:33]
Samantha
Yeah, for sure.
- [65:35]
Nick
She wants to feel wanted and she wants to feel like she doesn't have to apologize for bringing the people she wants and you have to make her feel that. So it can't be like a half ass apology. It can't be like, well, I'm gonna apologize for what I did, but I Hope you have something to say you're sorry for too, or anything like that. And I think, you know, she'll probably come around. Stop judging your sister in law for choices that you wouldn't make for yourself and just. Just give her the love and grace that she needs. Because no one feels more worse about her dating life than her.
- [66:09]
Samantha
Yeah, that's true. That makes me feel bad. That makes me feel real bad because I feel like I've never thought about it that way because I really do feel like I look at it from a place of. I want the best for her. I want her to find someone that truly loves and cares about her. Because I think she's amazing. I think she's wonderful. I think she is. I. I think she deserves someone great. I know that it's. That's not. She hasn't found that yet or. Well, maybe she has and I'm not giving maybe guy a chance to be that.
- [66:37]
Nick
But anyway, that too. Or maybe she just needs. Maybe she just needs people who believe in her so that she can believe in herself. And you don't give the impression that you believe in her all that much. And she probably feels that more than you realize.
- [66:51]
Samantha
Yeah. Fair. I appreciate that. Next.
- [66:54]
Nick
No problem.
- [66:54]
Samantha
Thank you for that.
- [66:56]
Nick
All right, well.
- [66:57]
Samantha
All right.
- [66:58]
Nick
Let me know how that apology goes. I'd love an update.
- [67:01]
Samantha
Yeah, I'll let you know.
- [67:04]
Nick
I'm sorry. I was wrong. I think the I was wrong is really important because, you know, so many apologies don't feel like apologies. I'm sorry for making you feel that way. I'm sorry, you know, blah, blah, you know, it's like I was wrong and that's what I'm apologizing for my behavior. I was focused on the wrong things and I made you feel a certain way.
- [67:25]
Alexis
And
- [67:28]
Nick
I hope I can get your forgiveness whenever you're ready.
- [67:30]
Samantha
Yeah.
- [67:31]
Nick
And I would honestly, I don't know if you're in therapy or anything like that, but that would be something to explore. I would tap into that childhood trauma that you think exists. It probably does. It probably is affecting you in ways you don't realize. It might be helpful for you to. To double click on that and work through it.
- [67:50]
Samantha
Yeah.
- [67:51]
Nick
You know.
- [67:52]
Samantha
Yeah, for sure.
- [67:53]
Nick
No doubt. This mindset you have, is this your first kid?
- [67:57]
Samantha
Yeah. Yeah.
- [68:00]
Nick
Congratulations. Awesome.
- [68:01]
Samantha
Thank you. Thank you.
- [68:02]
Nick
This mindset you have and how you are handling your sister in law, someone you love, someone you care about. I would nip this type of thought process or logic or behavior that you are demonstrating right now in the bud. So to speak. Because you will parent that way, too.
- [68:18]
Samantha
Yeah.
- [68:19]
Nick
And I don't think you want to parent your child this way.
- [68:23]
Samantha
No. Didn't think about that. Gotta work on myself a little bit here.
- [68:28]
Nick
Well, we all do. But good luck. Congratulations, too.
- [68:31]
Samantha
Thank you. Thank you so much.
- [68:33]
Nick
Don't. Don't blow anything.
- [68:34]
Samantha
Congratulations to you and Natalie.
- [68:35]
Nick
Don't blow anything up at your gender reveal.
- [68:37]
Chris
I won't.
- [68:38]
Samantha
Well, actually, it's on fourth of July weekend and we are doing an explosion. So I will blow something. Something will be blown up, but it won't be.
- [68:48]
Nick
Well, be careful. You don't want those. I mean, the amount of horror stories that come from gender reveals just, you know, it is the smallest of moments of many wonderful moments to come of being a parent. Don't taint it so early by unnecessary drama.
- [69:09]
Samantha
Yeah, you're right. You are right.
- [69:12]
Nick
All right, good luck.
- [69:14]
Samantha
Thank you so much.
- [69:15]
Nick
All right. Take care.
- [69:15]
Alexis
All right.
- [69:16]
Nick
All right. Bye.
- [69:16]
Alexis
Bye. Bye.
- [69:19]
Nick
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- [71:20]
Chris
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- [72:00]
Nick
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- [72:29]
Chris
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- [72:38]
Alexis
Hi, Nick, I'm Alexis. I'm 25 and I'm wondering if I should rekindle things with my first love.
- [72:44]
Nick
Okay, tell me. Tell me about it. Why is this an option? Why are you not sure.
- [72:49]
Alexis
So we originally broke up because we had differences on kids, which is a huge non negotiable. She wanted kids, I didn't want kids. So we were about two and a half years into our relationship. Our lease came up for renewal. And we were talking about if we should renew our lease. We had a couple other, like, issues in our relationship. So we started couples therapy. And in couples therapy, we never really got to work through any of our initial issues because it so immediately came to a head, this kids issue, which obviously isn't something either of us wanted to change our minds on. Things have changed for me. I have realized that I. I like, probably do want kids. And so I would hate to be in a boat where I, like, have kids with somebody else maybe one day in the future. But I gave up this really good relationship that I had in the past.
- [73:43]
Nick
What made you realize you wanted kids? How old are you again?
- [73:45]
Alexis
I'm 25.
- [73:46]
Nick
Okay.
- [73:47]
Alexis
So I think a lot of it is. I, obviously I'm lesbian. And I grew up never, like, like, adamant that I wasn't gonna get married, adamant that I wasn't gonna have kids. I realized I was gay at like 21. Since then, have been like, I'm gonna get married, like, you know, have a life, have, have a person. And I think the reason that I didn't want to get married in the past is because I. I couldn't picture that with a man. And that's kind of all I had, you know, just because of society. That's what I had known. And I think kids is kind of a lot of the same thing. I hadn't grown up picturing what my future would look like, picturing what it would be like to have kids and kids. One of my really good friends has had a kid who just turned one, and we've been spending a lot more time together. And I think my fear with having kids was just like, regretting having kids, which I think obviously is not the case for. For a lot of people. I was worried that I would regret losing, like, the freedom, the financial instability that it brings. But I've kind of done a lot of, like, thinking and even just, just being more open. And the idea of potentially having kids has allowed me to see a lot more of the positives that I never saw in the past.
- [74:57]
Nick
Cool. And is it an option for you to get back or are you just like, I, I now think of the world differently.
- [75:04]
Alexis
Sure.
- [75:04]
Nick
Or kids topic and are you, like, think, are you in communication with this person? Or, like, what's going on or are you. Is this, like, you want to reach back out and say, hey, I've changed my mind. Should we give this another shot?
- [75:17]
Alexis
So I did do that. That when I emailed in a couple weeks ago. So we. We decided that we were breaking up, still lived together, and didn't find it worth it to, like, break our lease and, you know, the. The finances that would come with that. We were, you know, still happy together. We broke up, moved out last year, and once we moved out, we were still in contact with each other for about six months because, like, we didn't want the relationship to end. It was a really sad breakup, but amicable at the end of the day. We went no contact for about 10 months after we had finally stopped talking. And then I reached out with a text at the beginning of the month to say, like, hey, a lot of things have changed for me. Would you like. The message was something along the lines of, a lot of things have changed for me. I would regret never letting you know that my mind had changed about kids and giving our relationship kind of a shot to see if it could work. Work. If you ever are open to hearing from me, let me know. She texted back, and we talked on the phone for about three and a half hours. And where we left it was. I felt like I was obviously putting a lot of information out there. I. Because I knew that I was the one that was reaching out. I had time to process what I was putting on the table, if getting back together was even an option. So I told her to reach back out to me when she was ready. If, you know, sit. Sit with it for some time. So that's where we're at now. She hasn't reached back out, which I.
- [76:44]
Nick
How long ago was this?
- [76:45]
Alexis
It was about three weeks ago.
- [76:46]
Nick
Okay.
- [76:47]
Alexis
And I think we both kind of were in agreement, like, this was not going to be a next day, next couple of week kind of thing. We really wanted to sit with it, and we both would hate to get back together and break up again, even if it was for a different reason. You know, we still spent three years together. We did break up. It was hard to get over the breakup. So I think we both want to be as sure as we can be that if we get back together, this is what we want.
- [77:13]
Nick
But to be clear, you definitely broke up because of this and everything else. Maybe wasn't perfect, but pretty good.
- [77:21]
Alexis
It was pretty good. That's what I keep going. That's what I keep going back to, is, like, every relationship has problems. And again. And we you know, we're. We're trying to get into couples therapy for that, and I feel like we were never able to kind of see the benefits of what couples therapy would have brought us, because this is kind of what came up right away. We ended up using couples therapy to, like, process the breakup, which was a weird scenario, but we. We loved each other. And I, like, if you love your partner, like, that's how you get through things. I'm. I'm in a position where, like, I know especially you always say, like, I, like, I recognize how young I am. But there are plenty of people who do find their person at. We were 21 when we met, and it does work for a ton of people. We agreed on, like, we loved each other. We, you know, cared about each other. Our families got along great. You always talk about, like, the bed, the broom, and the budget, I think is what you call it. Like, I was in a relationship where we didn't agree about money, and that really brought to light how important to me that was with the ex that I'm talking about. We did agree on that, that the things that we kind of didn't agree on and we're going to work on in couples therapy were like, I'm definitely
- [78:27]
Nick
anxiously attached, and what does that mean to you?
- [78:32]
Alexis
So the best way that I heard it phrased recently was actually I was watching the Age of Attraction reunion, and John brought up that part of the reason him and Teresa broke up was that he was anxiously attached. And I don't know how much you recall, but when they broke up in New York, there was this whole issue where, you know, she was struggling with, like, kind of the age thing, which was a facet of their relationship. And he felt like he had done something wrong. Like, she was upset about a situation, but he felt like she was mad at him and had done something wrong. And that was a really common thing theme throughout our relationship, where there would be a situation where she was upset, be it at a situation, at a circumstance, sometimes main me. But no matter what it was, I kind of really internalized it. The way that she would process emotions was kind of to. To shut down and, you know, reflect and come. Want to come back to the conversation later. I always felt like that was like her giving me the silent treatment, and that's something that we really, really needed to work through in therapy. But like I said, we. I just feel like we never got the chance to see if that was something we could work through.
- [79:45]
Nick
Gotcha. I'd be careful about comparing your relationships to Reality TV ones.
- [79:50]
Alexis
Sure, sure, sure. It was just that one aspect of describing anxious attachment as like, I felt like I was doing something wrong, even if objectively from the outside there was a scenario that was the issue.
- [80:03]
Nick
I, I think a lot of people disagree with my point of view at the reunion because I was definitely Team Teresa. Sure, I had some context that I didn't feel like other people's head and wasn't, you know, but I, I thought he did do something wrong and I think he was blaming it on his attachment style and I think, you know,
- [80:19]
Alexis
and again, I didn't feel like the, yeah, the whole thing. It was just that like 30 seconds where he described what anxious attachment meant to him really resonated with me.
- [80:28]
Nick
Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. What did, what was said in that three hour conversation specifically by her? Like, how do you, how was, like, what were some, her concerns or thoughts and feelings on the topic? Like, that's a, that's a long conversation. What did you guys talk about?
- [80:41]
Alexis
Sure. A lot of it was, a lot of it was catching up. She also. So she's in grad school right now for two years, three hours from here. Not the end of the world. We always knew that was a possibility and we would have done long distance if we stayed together. So a good portion of it was just kind of catching up. How was, how are you? How's your family? That kind of thing. She obviously was shocked to hear that I had kind of had a, had this change. It's, it's been a little under a year. And so I, I understand how that was like a concern for her. She knows the friend as well who, who I mentioned, who just had a kid. And so I was, you know, talking about how I felt differently about that kid and where I think that this initial reason that I never wanted kids anyway, like, kind of came from my childhood. She asked like, what I thought the pros of our relationship were and, and like why I loved her, which I thought was interesting and like in the moment was hard for me to answer or she felt like it was hard for me to answer. I guess I tend to have like a kind of very like data, like logistical mind where I'm like, I love doing these things for you. Like, my love language is showing. Love is definitely like acts of service. And so for me I'm like, I love doing these things for you. You and I. I'm not really sure where she stands of like how she felt about that. She definitely is a lot more emotion driven and wanted, I think would have responded more to, like, how do you put love into words? Like, that's where I struggled.
- [82:11]
Nick
I mean, what if you had said something like, I don't know. I just think about you every goddamn day, and I miss the hell out of you. And I. There hasn't been a day since we've been broken up that I haven't missed you.
- [82:20]
Alexis
So I did say that as well.
- [82:21]
Nick
Well, great.
- [82:23]
Alexis
So that's. So that's how it started. That's how the text started, was, you know, I think about you literally every day. I, you know, don't want to have kids with somebody else and never giving us this shot. So I. I did say that. I did say, you know, I.
- [82:36]
Nick
That didn't resonate with her.
- [82:39]
Alexis
That's a great question. I. I think she was very skeptical for the phone call. I also know that before we had had the phone call, she. And again, every, like, totally her. Right. She does not owe me getting back together. But she had reached out to a lot of her friends before the phone call, and a lot of her friends don't like me because of the breakup, which I, again, I think is a bit unfair. We had a very, like, amicable breakup. When we broke up, I made it very clear to my friends, like, I don't ever want to talk negatively about this person. Like, we had a great relationship. We broke up for a reason. But if I had, I do know for certain that she, like, talked to her friends before this call, and they were kind of. Kind of upset that I had reached out. So that's a little bit of context. Like, that's the mindset she was coming into it with.
- [83:23]
Nick
That makes sense. Why? I mean, other than. I mean, you heard her, you know, on it.
- [83:27]
Alexis
Sure.
- [83:28]
Nick
So they're just going to protect their friend.
- [83:30]
Alexis
Sure.
- [83:30]
Nick
People typically don't change. This is a little different because, you know, people often change their idea about kids also, like, there's nothing like that makes me sadder about today's society than how people your age are made to feel about having kids. And I've said this a bunch of times. On this particular show, it was, like, a little bit more of a safe space and, like, reality recap.
- [83:56]
Alexis
Sure. Maybe you're. You're part of the reason I changed my mind. I'm sure you've, like, literally even just listening to kind of the calls, and I. I get where you're coming from and, like, even talk. Like, I told my parents when I was probably, like, 15, like, I wasn't having kids, and they were like, you'll change your mind. And I was like, no, I'm not having kids. Like, I don't want the financial responsibility. I want to be able to do what I want. And I was like, so sure about it.
- [84:19]
Samantha
Yeah.
- [84:19]
Alexis
And I mean, I was 15. Like, you know, you giggled when I said that. I get what you know so well.
- [84:27]
Nick
Yeah. I mean, listen. And again, just to I, if you don't want to have kids, you shouldn't be convinced to have kids. I just think too many people, you know, 30 years ago is just what people did. It was just something that society, you know, and I'm sure that created a lot of parents who didn't really want to have kids. And I'm sure there are people out there who maybe have some regrets. I just think it's far more. People find an immense amount of joy and privilege and purpose from having kids who never, you know, and those were people who weren't like, maybe, like, you know, there are people who are like, I always wanted to be a parent, you know, and there are people who are like, hey, you know, and then. But when they, you know, most of them, it changes their life and in really great ways. And I just wish society wouldn't come up with all these reasons of why people shouldn't and things like that. Because, yeah, I mean, your 20s, like, 20, especially nowadays, is such a selfish time in someone's life and in a lot of ways, for good, you know, as it should be. But, you know, when you're 40 and 50 and 60, you know, the world gets a lot lonelier. Not that you should have kids just to not be lonely, but the purpose and meaning it gives people, I think, is immeasurable. And there's no other thing in this world that can replicate that experience. And if you are in a relationship and lucky enough to have a relationship with someone you have kids with and to share that bond and connection and that sense of purpose is a real powerful thing in relationships. So much about relationships is selflessness. And being a parent is a really. It's a cheat code on being selfless because you're so motivated by the love that you have for your kid and that bond that you share with someone and that mutual love that you have for a child is like this. I don't know. I don't think there's a powerful, more powerful thing out there, you know, and you'll figure it out. And I'm sure right now, the news that you broke to her, you know, she's wondering if, like, are you sure about this? Are you Only saying this because you miss her. Are you really confident you want to be? And that might just, like, come in time, but it sounds like you have no reason not to pursue this. Neither of you are going to be able to guarantee that this is going to work out. You can't.
- [86:36]
Alexis
See, that's what you can.
- [86:38]
Nick
It's like, impossible. You know, you guys are. You guys are going to both have to take a risk. I would remind her of that. And maybe it might. You can say it in a romantic way where, like, I just like, listen, you're the love. I. It's worth taking a risk. In my. So far, one of my biggest regrets is to quit on us. And. And I spent most days not being with you, regretting that decision. And I have you to thank for, you know, helping me get to this place. Because part of me wanting to have a child was the idea that I could have a child with you and. And that. And you're the person I thought about having a child with and feels pretty good to hear anyone say, you know, and things like that. So assuming you mean all that sounds like you do.
- [87:20]
Alexis
See, I think that's where I'm like, so my. So one of my. I was. I was in a relationship between being. Breaking up with her and reaching back out to her. And I think that that news hurt her as well. I guess what I see is the biggest risk where I don't know if it's. Even if she does reach out to me and is like, yes, let's do this. The part that scares me is that if we were to have kids, she would carry the kids.
- [87:46]
Nick
How has that been decided already?
- [87:48]
Alexis
So we talked. So I didn't. I wasn't positive on not wanting kids in a our. When we first got together. So we had talked about. We had talked about what kids would look like, how. How we would have kids and. And what that process would look like. So we both agree on that. She agrees on that. She wants to, like, carry a kid more than anything just based on, like, some health stuff, she probably, like, should have the kids sooner than later. And even that's no guarantees. So I. Something that really scares me is even if she were to call me back and say, like, yes, let's do this, and I. I'm like, yes, it's a risk. Sure. What scares me is that we spend like, another two years together. Don't, like, fix these, like, things that we had on a relationship. And now she's like, 30 and has to find somebody else to have kids with. I truly can't wrap my mind around, like, is it selfish to even try this again and maybe waste her time?
- [88:41]
Nick
Well, only if you waste her time, you know, if only if you say things you don't mean or don't back up what you say and follow through on your promises that you make and things like that. But there's just no guarantee that either of you can make to each other that, you know, again, like, all I can promise my wife is that I'm going to show up and prioritize her and our family and our relationship. And I will, you know, I'm going to keep doing that. And the hope is, the result of that is we'll both choose each other and that will keep us connected and in love and things like that. I can make that promise because I can, I can back it up with my actions and things like that, but I can't control her. And. But that's a pretty good formula of keeping a relationship going. And the only thing I would suggest too is learn from your lesson of the fact that your mind changed. And I would say that to both of you, you know, great, she had a desire to carry a child. Let's try to make that happen for her. If you guys decide to get back, if you get back together and have kids together, but just be open minded, your life might change. You might decide that maybe she had such a beautiful experience, maybe you want to experience that and maybe for your second child, you guys have a second child and maybe for whatever reason, health reasons or maybe she just was like, that was a lot. It's your turn. I don't know. Just stop closing the door, doors and windows to things that you have little experience on and let, let life happen and be open to having your mind changed because it already has changed. You know, like learn from that. The fact that like, you know, at 15, you know, you look back and go, camp, I was 15, I can't believe I made these choices. Well, when you're 40, you're gonna look back at what you're 25 and laugh at how you saw the world. World. You're gonna chuckle about some of your world views that you have today versus the worldviews you have 15 years from now. Partly because the world will change. You will change, your relationship will change, you're gonna evolve. So stop being so dead set on what you on. You're on your plan.
- [90:50]
Alexis
Yeah.
- [90:51]
Nick
And focus on what you can control. And what you can control in your relationships is how you show up every day.
- [90:55]
Alexis
Yeah. I think like the other, the One other thing that, like, really scares me is like, you talk again on your podcast of like, this first relationship that you had where you were together on and off for like seven years. And like, this is my first relationship. It's pretty good. But I also, like, I mean, like you said, there's no guarantees and like, you never know. But what if there is somebody out there that's better? I've, I've been really struggling with that too. And it's just, it's hard. I don't know. Like, again, I, Every day I feel both so old and so young at the same time.
- [91:30]
Nick
It's pretty typical for someone your age.
- [91:32]
Alexis
Each other every day.
- [91:34]
Nick
Yeah. Yeah. I don't have a clear answer for you. You know, you'll figure it out. It won't be, Listen, if you guys get back together and you don't work out, it won't be just your fault, probably. She has a choice to make in this and she can make choices for herself. And as long as you know that you're not going to change your mind about not having kids in two years after you get back, that would be the only kind of fucked up thing you could do. Right?
- [92:00]
Alexis
I get, but what if I do? Like, is it not worth it at all to even, you know, I don't, I don't think I will, but I have, I did change my mind in the past 10 months.
- [92:11]
Nick
Well, I mean, I guess. Why did, why did you change your mind, right? If you changed your mind because you were able to convince yourself that you wanted kids because deep down you really missed her more than you realized and you just want her back, so now you're just saying that you want to have kids, then that would be kind of, that would, that would leave you vulnerable to changing your mind again. But if, if the reason you want to have kids is because you realize that, like, it's a beautiful thing and you've seen other people around you have a beautiful experience having kids and acknowledge that, like, there's a lot about having kids outside of the beauty and all the benefits are some real challenges, but you're willing to face those and you're not going to, like, like, scare easily. And I, I, I just don't know a lot of people who are, who have kids and be like, can we send it back?
- [92:59]
Alexis
Yeah, sure, sure, I hear you.
- [93:01]
Nick
You know, that's just, you know, my opinion and my personal experience. But I, I think you're less likely to change your mind the other way. As long as you made, as long as you Came to this decision on
- [93:10]
Alexis
your own and see it. Like, I think I would be lying to myself if part of the decision wasn't with her. Her. Like, I, I do want to have kids with her. And in my mind I'm like, okay, like, is that like this really romantic thing? Like, yes, I want kids independently, but I, I do want kids with her. You know, like, the, the way I, like, I, I think it, it scares me to like half quote unquote, like have to have kids with somebody else where. Because I, like, I want kids with her. I think it's both and that, that is tough to kind of grapple with.
- [93:47]
Nick
Yeah, but what's is it more of? I mean, I get what you're saying, but yeah, it's cool that you, I mean, it's, it's special that you want to have children with the person you love, you know?
- [93:57]
Samantha
Sure.
- [93:59]
Alexis
I think if I didn't get back with her, there's not a 100 chance that I would have kids based off what. But I could. I think I could be okay having kids and I could be okay not having kids. Kids. I don't feel like 100% said in either direction. I don't think I regret either.
- [94:18]
Nick
That's a totally okay space to be in it. You know, a lot of, you know, I know a lot of those people who ended up having kids and I don't know a single person who wished they, who thought they got it wrong. You know, it's such a big, you know, having kids is such a. Like a big moment in someone's life and, and you. I would just let that happen, I guess. I don't know. You know. Yeah, just. I think it's cool that you've gotten to this point. I would try not to overthink it.
- [94:50]
Alexis
That's.
- [94:51]
Nick
You're, you're only.
- [94:52]
Alexis
Easier said than done.
- [94:53]
Nick
I. Yeah, but possible and probable. If you are determined to. You, you know, you can stop your, you know, you can control your thoughts. Stop telling yourself. It's so hard to do. But. Yeah, I don't know. It sounds like you have no. I think you're going to have to fight for this. I think you're as far as getting back together with her as someone who clearly like overthinks things and analyzes things. You have, you know, you. Someone with like your mindset will to. To other people. Like, you're, you're like one foot in one foot. I think you're going to have to go all in with her. I think, I think if she doesn't reach out to you in the next few days. I think you should follow up with her and send something like, assuming you mean, mean it, you know. Hey, just checking in. I don't want to rush you or pressure you. Just know that I'm still thinking about you. I really hope to hear from you. I hope we can, you know, I. And make it clear what you want, you know, not. Well, I did my part, so now I'm gonna wait for you and do your part.
- [95:54]
Alexis
Sure.
- [95:54]
Nick
You know, I wouldn't make it a tit for tat. I think you have some fences to mend with her and obviously her people. Then she needs to trust and know that you're, like, committed to this.
- [96:04]
Alexis
This. Well, see, like, if we do get back together, it's, it's a long road and we live three hours from each other and whatever.
- [96:11]
Nick
So that's part of who cares?
- [96:13]
Samantha
Okay?
- [96:13]
Nick
You'll make it work. I don't know. Like, it's not that impossible, you know,
- [96:17]
Alexis
I mean, that's what that was my. Yeah. When I reached out, I was like, we, like, we'll make it again. If we would have never broke up and we would have never been on a different page about kids, I think we would have, like, fixed some of these issues that we had and we would have done long distance existence, and it would have worked out. But now, like, it feels like we have an out right now. We are broken up. We could just do different things forever and, and that could be it. But I also can't imagine, like, what. There's this, there's this, like, song that just came out that one of the, like, the whole premise of the song is, like, what if I, like, am about to say I do like, in a wedding to somebody else? And, like, I think of you again, I, like, butchered all of that. But, like, regretting not, like, getting to my wedding with somebody else and regretting it not being her. Like, that's kind of the biggest possibility I see right now. But I don't know if that makes it, like, for the wrong reasons.
- [97:09]
Nick
No, I mean, listen, I don't, I, I have no relationship regrets. And that part of that is because I, I, you know, I, I saw things through. I, I, I, you know, And I guess a consequence of that is it took me till I was in my 40s to get married and have kids. And so I stayed in relationships too long. I played a little safe at times, but, like, I definitely have no regrets. And that's why, I mean, like, again, you're like, oh, well, what if we get back together and what if we break up and what if this and what if that and blah, blah, blah, Like, I don't know. Yeah, that's all possible, but, like, you can choose to fight for this relationship, and you can choose to give it your all, and you can choose to focus on her, and you can choose to make it work despite the distance.
- [97:52]
Alexis
And.
- [97:52]
Nick
And you can choose to say, I want to commit to you in this relationship, and I want to give it my best effort. And. And we obviously broke up because of various specific things. You know, we also, like, give each other both grace. You know, you did meet at a young age. You guys met at an age where you both had individual growing up to do, and maybe this breakup was for the best and that you could, you know, you could become some. You. You've. You. You got to this conclusion without her in your life, and it was a decision that ultimately might bring you guys back together, but maybe you needed to lose her for. For that to happen. But you guys can give each other some grace about the fact that you met so young, not as a reason not to get back together, but just to, like, you know, not. You don't have to have gotten everything right, you know, if that makes sense.
- [98:44]
Alexis
No, I think that that's super fair, and that's, like, kind of one of the most comforting things I've heard about the situation. Again, like, so much of me is like, man, like, we've really loved each other. Like, we would have done anything for each other. We lived together well. And, like, I am still, like, in love with her. You know, there's all these things. And so I think that's a really good point, probably to bring up to her, too, is like, give ourselves some grace. That, like, we were so young. And that doesn't mean that, like, oh, like, bad timing. Like, maybe the sir was way of finding each other. Finding each other again.
- [99:17]
Nick
Maybe you could say we have a lot of work to do, but I'm willing to. I want to do it with you. I want to do the work. I want to show up for you, and I want to show up for us. And, yeah, like, the idea of having kids is something that I've become more and more, like, fond of. Obviously, the idea of having it with you makes me even more excited. You know, whatever fears you have about parenthood, you know, you might have to face those fears if you guys decide to do it, and, you know, you might have some anxiety. In about a week, I'm gonna have two new Daughters. I'm not. I'm not prepared for that. I don't know what it's gonna be like. You know, it's. There's a lot of anxiety and fear.
- [99:53]
Alexis
Congratulations, by the way.
- [99:54]
Nick
Thank you. But we'll figure it out. We'll just, like. We'll just. We're excited about the challenge, and so we f. And. And that. You know, I would give you that advice. Just be excited about the challenges that you two are gonna face as a couple.
- [100:07]
Alexis
Couple.
- [100:08]
Nick
But do it together.
- [100:09]
Alexis
Sure.
- [100:09]
Nick
You know, there's nothing that brings Natalie and I closer together is. Is to. To know that we're in it together, that we. Whatever challenges we have, we're both committed to. To figuring it out together. And I think that's what keeps people connected over time. And so, you know, rather than analyzing all the problems and figuring out why it's not going to work out and. And things like that, it's. I don't know know how productive that is. But, yeah, I think you're gonna have to fight for her a little bit, and it sounds like she's the type of person who wants to be fought for, and you hurt her, you know, whether it was a good breakup or not. And. Yeah. So that's cool. I think. I think you should go for it, and it might. I don't. I don't know what's gonna happen, but if you go for it. But back to the. Like, I don't want to have any regrets. That's how you don't have regrets is to throw caution of the wind a little bit, to be vulnerable, to open yourself up to being hurt again and to do it anyways. And then if you are hurt, you'll deal with that. You'll process that pain and sadness, and you'll get through it. And maybe life will bring you unexpected things, and, you know, maybe you won't get married until you're 40. I don't know. But in the meantime, just see this through, you know, fight for the thing that you care about, the thing that's consuming most of your thoughts and feelings. You know, really go for it. And if it doesn't work out, at least you know you tried. Because right now, your regret is coming from the fact that you guys quit on each other. And it made sense at the time, given where you were at, but things have changed, and now you can't. You can. You can think of more reasons to be together than not be together, and that's where you stand. And so you need to be. You need to own that and not be so wishy washy with her. And I think you need to have some conviction in what you say you want with her.
- [101:54]
Alexis
Her, Sure. I think that's great advice.
- [101:58]
Nick
Okay, well, good luck.
- [102:00]
Alexis
All right, well, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
- [102:02]
Nick
Let me, let me know how it goes.
- [102:04]
Alexis
Okay, will do. Yeah, I think you're right. I, I get so caught up in my head that I. At first I was really excited to reach out to her and then all of these, you know, like doubts and, and all the scary things came in and I think that's why I, even when I probably talked to her on the phone, I didn't sound like 100% in and like I had that same conviction which like I do deep down. But I, I get in my own way. So I just need to reach out
- [102:29]
Nick
and I would maybe hit her up, have the convention that I'm in, hit her up today. You know, it's like a gentle, you know, don't pressure but be vulnerable and let her know that you're still there and you're still. Yeah, you still want this. And, and you're.
- [102:44]
Alexis
She was in the city that I live in over the weekend and didn't reach out. Out.
- [102:48]
Nick
So how do you know that?
- [102:49]
Alexis
I don't know if that we have enough friends that. Yeah, so she was in town with
- [102:55]
Nick
friends, but who knows the reason didn't
- [102:57]
Alexis
make an effort to see me. Sure.
- [102:59]
Samantha
Yeah.
- [102:59]
Nick
Listen, you heard her and you, you know, I don't think you, you get to solve everything with one text and a three hour phone call.
- [103:05]
Alexis
Fair enough. All righty. I need to have some more conviction and I'm gonna go out there.
- [103:11]
Nick
All righty. Good luck.
- [103:12]
Alexis
All right. Thank you so much.
- [103:13]
Nick
All right, bye.
- [103:13]
Alexis
Bye.
- [103:28]
Nick
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