E835 - Love is Blind Reunion w/ Ramses, RHOC w/ Emily D Baker, RHOSLC, and Ryan Reynolds v. Martha Stewart

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Viall Files - Episode E835

Title: Love is Blind Reunion w/ Ramses, RHOC w/ Emily D Baker, RHOSLC, and Ryan Reynolds v. Martha Stewart
Release Date: November 5, 2024
Hosts: Nick Viall, Natalie Joy, and the Household

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1. Episode Introduction and Overview

[01:17] Nick Viall:
Nick welcomes listeners to another episode of The Viall Files, specifically the Reality Recap edition. Highlighting the significance of Election Day, Nick encourages listeners to exercise their voting rights while tuning into the podcast for a diversion from the chaos. He previews the episode's content, including insights from the Love is Blind reunion featuring Ramses, upcoming guest Ashley from Love is Blind for a special Going Deeper episode, and discussions on Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC) with legal expert Emily D Baker.

Notable Quote:

"What's going on with the election. Who knows? ... we are here to keep your mind off the chaos." – Nick Viall [01:17]

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2. Love is Blind Reunion Discussions

Participants: Nick Viall, Vanessa Grimaldi, Ramses, Ashley Iaconetti, Emily Baker

The conversation shifts to the recent Love is Blind reunion, focusing on the interactions between Nick, Vanessa, and Ramses. They delve into Rammes' time during the reunion, seeking clarity on certain unresolved issues and hoping to gain insights into Ramses' perspectives.

Key Points:

• Relationship Dynamics: Ramses shares his side of events during the reunion, addressing accusations and misunderstandings.
• Conflict Resolution: Discussion on how Nick and Vanessa handled conflicts, emphasizing taking the high road amidst drama.

Notable Quotes:

"We are no dad jokes. No dad jokes. Just straight facts and fun here at the Viall Files." – Vanessa Grimaldi [02:09]
"We all give ourselves the benefit of the doubt in terms of how we come across in an argument or a disagreement." – Nick Viall [78:56]

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3. Mental Health and Intrusive Thoughts

Participants: Vanessa Grimaldi, Ashley Iaconetti, Nick Viall, Ramses, Bronwyn

Vanessa opens up about her struggles with intrusive thoughts, especially concerning her child’s safety. This segment transitions into a broader discussion on mental health, the prevalence of intrusive thoughts among parents, and coping mechanisms.

Key Points:

• Personal Experiences: Vanessa shares her experience with intrusive thoughts and how connecting with others facing similar issues provided solace.
• Coping Strategies: Emphasis on acknowledging thoughts without suppression and being present in the moment.

Notable Quotes:

"And like, I have to think of, like, her falling or her anything. ... what is wrong with you?" – Vanessa Grimaldi [08:09]
"Like, having a crazy thought is to remind us how sane we are." – Nick Viall [07:47]

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4. Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC) with Emily D Baker

Participant: Emily D Baker

Emily joins the podcast to provide legal insights into recent events surrounding Real Housewives of Orange County. The discussion primarily revolves around Ryan Reynolds' friend, Matthew, who was arrested for money laundering and tax fraud.

Key Points:

• Legal Breakdown: Emily explains the intricacies of the case, detailing how Matthew’s activities were linked to casinos in Nevada and the legal consequences he faces.
• Ryan Reynolds' Involvement: Exploration of Ryan's potential knowledge or involvement, highlighting the implications of an immunity deal and its limitations.
• Impact on Reality TV Personalities: Analysis of how legal issues intersect with reality TV narratives, emphasizing the role of editing and public perception.

Notable Quotes:

"This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance... Get your quote [e-mail]." – Advertisements Skipped
"Ryan has an immunity deal, so he knows enough shit that he could be prosecuted." – Emily D Baker [117:03]
"If we have to talk about, like, whatever bro code with... they're just throwing someone under the bus." – Nick Viall [125:25]

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5. Ryan Reynolds vs. Martha Stewart Controversy

Participants: Nick Viall, Vanessa Grimaldi, Emily D Baker, Ramses

The hosts address the recent comments made by Martha Stewart about Ryan Reynolds, where she criticized his humor in real life, contrasting it with his on-screen persona.

Key Points:

• Public Perception: Discussion on how Martha Stewart’s comments have influenced public opinion of Ryan Reynolds.
• Defending Ryan: The hosts express support for Ryan, arguing that his public image does not fully capture his true character.
• Social Media Influence: Analysis of the role social media plays in shaping narratives around celebrities and the repercussions of negative comments.

Notable Quotes:

"She's saying her neighbor is Ryan Reynolds... he isn't funny." – Martha Stewart (Referenced) [17:23]
"Everyone tried to scapegoat this guy who, you know, he may have his flaws, but he's not problematic." – Nick Viall [125:57]
"She is disparaging Justin's character as a man and then suggesting that he doesn't know how to handle himself." – Nick Viall [131:15]

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6. Legal Insights and Ongoing Cases

Participant: Emily D Baker

Emily provides further legal context regarding ongoing cases in the reality TV sphere, including the Menendez brothers' potential resentencing and the federal investigations into high-profile personalities like Diddy.

Key Points:

• Menendez Brothers: Explanation of possible resentencing due to removal of special circumstances, making them eligible for parole.
• Diddy’s Legal Battles: Overview of the grand jury’s ongoing investigations and potential future indictments.
• Legal Procedures: Clarification on the implications of cease and desist orders versus formal lawsuits.

Notable Quotes:

"The grand jury is still investigating... Likely more indictments because the grand jury is still ongoing." – Emily D Baker [116:37]
"If someone doesn't want to be accused of being a gold digger, be willing to pick up." – Vanessa Grimaldi [94:57]
"Clemency from the governor could commute the sentences." – Emily D Baker [127:30]

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7. Final Thoughts and Upcoming Episodes

[85:57] Nick Viall:
Nick wraps up the episode by reflecting on the discussed topics, emphasizing the importance of understanding the nuances behind reality TV portrayals and legal issues. He teases upcoming episodes, including guest appearances and further deep dives into ongoing reality TV dramas.

Notable Quotes:

"We didn't say anything to get people to come on to defend themselves, but because we were just watching a show that we recognize can be edited." – Nick Viall [74:55]
"We will be back tomorrow... we have a lot to discuss with Ashley and Tyler's relationship." – Nick Viall [148:50]

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8. Advertisements and Sponsors

Advertisements for Progressive Insurance, Article (furniture), and Grammarly were interspersed throughout the transcript but have been omitted from this summary as per instructions to focus solely on content.

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Conclusion

Episode E835 of The Viall Files offers an in-depth exploration of reality TV dynamics, personal mental health struggles, and intricate legal battles involving celebrities. Hosts Nick Viall, Vanessa Grimaldi, and guest Emily D Baker provide listeners with nuanced perspectives on the interplay between public personas and private realities, emphasizing the importance of context and accountability.

Overall Notable Quote:

"It's not as black and white in terms of, like, oh, well, the, the editors are evil, or things like that. I think they're just kind of, you know, their opinion. We got Ramses' POV, we got Marissa's POV, and then we have the editor's POV type of thing. And I think the truth's always somewhere in the middle." – Nick Viall [125:25]

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided podcast transcript and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights. For a comprehensive understanding, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Nick Viall]

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[Ashley Iaconetti]

You're crazy.

[Nick Viall]

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the VAL Files Reality Recap edition. I'm your host Nick, joined by the household. We have a lot to get into. It is election day. Get out and vote whoever you want to vote for. Do your patriotic duty and use your right to vote and then listen to while you're waiting. I don't know who knows what's going to happen but just know that we have Ashley from Love is Blind tomorrow for a just a electric episode of Going Deeper. I We obviously will get into the reunion later this episode. We have Ramses joining us today as well which hopefully we get some answers there too because again we boy Nick and Vanessa really just yeah doing their thing at the reunions. But if you were left wanting more, that's why we are here. So while who knows what's going on with the election. Who knows? I mean when we're going to find out God knows what. But just know note we are here for you to keep your mind off the chaos.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

We are also here pun free.

[Ramses]

Yeah yeah.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No puns, no puns.

[Nick Viall]

We are no dad jokes.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No dad jokes.

[Nick Viall]

No dad jokes. No dad jokes. Just straight facts and fun here at the Vile Files. We also have Emily Baker returning the show. She is going to help us break down Real Housewives of oc. Obviously we had the arrest of not well arrested Ryan's friend.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, but he was at the party, talking about, like, how having a money launderer. Having a crazy.

[Nick Viall]

I'm pretty sure he admitted to a crime there.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Is it like, they were joking?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, well, there's that aspect.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I don't think juries care about jokes.

[Emily Baker]

Crazy thing to say at a party on TV when you're being investigated.

[Ramses]

I was gonna say. I also don't know that he, like, realized that, like, two out of the five people in that circle are miked up.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, he said it.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

I don't know if he was joking. I think he was trying to be funny.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

He's trying to be funny. And I think it was in context as well of, like, Tamra attacking him.

[Nick Viall]

But I'm pretty sure, like, just having a money launderer, like, is, like, illegal, right? There's no legal.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Reason to have a money launderer. Right.

[Emily Baker]

No, I mean, because the only reason I have a money launderer. When you're laundering your money.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Because you're doing. Right. I don't know.

[Ramses]

Illegal.

[Nick Viall]

That's why we have.

[Emily Baker]

This is my money launderer. I just keep him here for bed.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

He also, like, helps me with my laundry.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah. Yeah. We have, like, business. It's really. It's really over. Over the mark.

[Nick Viall]

The legal expert that she is, Emily, will answer some of our legal questions later this episode. Maybe we'll. She'll have some tea about the men and his brothers in P.E. really, she is an encyclopedia of legal knowledge. And we are excited to have Emily back with us once again. Knowledge, unfortunately. Well, I mean, I am happy for me, but I'm running away with this, guys. This vibes or stats segment of the Vow Files is brought to you by. Wonderful pistachios. Wonderful Pistachios. No shells. Flavors come in a variety of flavors, including chili roasted honey roasted, sea salt and vinegar, smoky barbecue, sea salt and pepper, jalapeno lime, and the newest seasonal limited time edition, sweet cinnamon with a wide range of flavors. There's a Wonderful pistachios product for every taste bud and occasion from your game time gatherings or for taking them on the go. Visit wonderfulpostachios.com to learn more.

[Ramses]

I can tell you I'm not sad about losing this to you.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah. I also am. Like, you can for sure have it. I mean, like, if you were losing.

[Ramses]

I would be sad for you.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah.

[Emily Baker]

The concept of this is pretty much for us to lose, for us to have fun.

[Ramses]

And guys, the bit is for you.

[Nick Viall]

Guys to want to win.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I wanted to win, but it was a setup. This Was inevitable that.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

The first two weeks. The first two weeks is where we were winning.

[Nick Viall]

Yes.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Because that doesn't count.

[Nick Viall]

It's. Listen, it's an early season. You guys can come back.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

How long do you get to say it's an early season for.

[Nick Viall]

Well, we're halfway through.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

We're halfway through the season.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Emily Baker]

Glass half full.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Emily Baker]

I guess we'll just have to see you.

[Nick Viall]

Thank you, wonderful Pistachios, for sponsoring this segment of the vow files. Visit wonderfulpostachios.com to learn more.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

What is going on in the pop culture world?

[Nick Viall]

Margot Robbie is a mom.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah. She has a son.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

She has a baby boy she's gonna crush.

[Nick Viall]

This was reminding me just how insane the Internet is. The amount of tweets I saw about Barbie fans being mad that Margot Robbie had a really boy and not a girl is. Well, I should. I shouldn't say shocking because it's the Internet, but disturbing. Yeah, that's for sure.

[Emily Baker]

Who cares?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

People are mad that she's there. Anyone who is, like, mad at the gender of their child is, like, so fucking.

[Nick Viall]

I saw a tweet that suggests wasted opportunity for. Because, you know, this boy won't appreciate as Barbie as their mom.

[Emily Baker]

Okay, what if he was cool?

[Ramses]

Maybe she's raising an anti Ken. You don't know.

[Nick Viall]

Leia. Can her son grow up to be a Barbie fan?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Like.

[Nick Viall]

Like, what are we anyways? Yeah.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I do wonder if Margot Robbie will have the same issues that I have. Leia, I wonder if you struggle with this as well, but it is that of intrusive thoughts. And like, I thought that I was just, like, sick in the head and it would be like, anytime we did absolutely anything, I would, like, picture the worst thing happening. It's like every time we're in the car, I'm like, I go through this green light and like an 18 wheeler is going to run the red light and hit us. It's like every. Or it's like river is doing something and she's going to fall and have a concussion. Or she's going to, like, go to bed and then she's going to sleep on a concussion. She won't wake up. It's like these terrible, terrible, terrible thoughts. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, what is wrong with you? Am I manifesting these thoughts? Like, what the fuck? And then we were at this event and I was talking to Sharna and Brian Austin Green, and I was telling Sharna about it just as like, you know, oh, my God, this and this crazy. And she was like, no, I have the exact same things.

[Nick Viall]

And I feel like I've done. I've. I've had those thoughts.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

You have?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. You go down a thought and we're just like, that would. That would be terrible if that happened.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

But I guess I just thought, like, am I fucked up in the head for, like, thinking these, like, terrible things? Like, why can't I just be, like, appreciative of this moment? But no, it's like, I have to think of, like, her falling or her anything. And Sharna was like, no, I. The same thing happened to me. And she's like, you have to. She gave me a really amazing piece of advice of just, like, thanking them for coming into your head and, like, bringing. You know, you're like, okay, now I am aware that, like, an 18 wheeler could come through. And I need to be like, be more cautious, and I need to, like, just be more present and like, thank you for bringing this into my head instead of, like, trying to. I suppress it.

[Nick Viall]

I would be terrified. Like, you know, all the Black Mirror episodes, they talk about these crazy concepts. Like, I hope there's not the technology one day to read our minds. And then because, like, we are as human beings, I think we're supposed to have crazy thoughts sometimes that pop in, we process and pop out. I think the difference between crazy isn't whether we have these thoughts or not. It's what we do with these thoughts when they enter in our head.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Like, if you act on it, we act on them.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Like, sometimes having a crazy thought is to remind us how sane we are when we go, oh, my God, that was. Just get out of my head. You know, that type of thing. So I think it's very normal to have those thoughts. Yeah. And like, they come and. And they kind of make us either. It's like a fight or flight thing almost.

[Ramses]

I also think it's normal because you're like, all of a sudden raising this baby and have to keep it alive. That I'm like, you're thinking about so many other things that you wouldn't think about day to day. And I can say, like, I held your baby. And the entire time I'm like, please don't drop this. Please don't. You know what I mean? Where it's like, of course I'm not gonna, like, let go of my arms. But it's like, there's a thought in your head that's like, oh, my God, like, what if? So I'm like, I think it's pretty.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Normal also, isn't it? The reason that women and, like, mothers are more drawn to true crime is because they're living out the possibility of something just so they can prepare for, like, their act.

[Emily Baker]

Heard about that.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Like, I think that's like, a psychological thing that happens because women are more likely to endure it, so they, like, prepare themselves.

[Ramses]

We just learned something new right now about ourselves.

[Emily Baker]

I feel like. I feel like when you have a baby too, it's like, it's. Or like a baby or just like something so innocent. Of course your brain's gonna manifest, like, all of the awful things could happen to this, like, innocent being.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Well, that's the part that's, like, scary to me is like, am I manifesting it? Like, am I like, is. Is me thinking about these things like a sick version of myself, like, hoping they happen? No, no.

[Emily Baker]

I think it's just a reaction to the world that you live in.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah.

[Emily Baker]

You know.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Leia, do you have the same.

[Bronwyn]

I do, 100% all the time. Like, I'll be holding him and I'll just be like, what if I just dropped him right now?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

It is crazy. I mean, I truly thought. And thank God for Sharna being like, babe, you are not alone. Like, I had terrible, terrible thoughts. And just to be like, you just need to think.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

It means you care.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I do care. I would be like, oh, my God, bitch, you're. What's wrong with you? Like, you, like, why would you think that? Why would you think that just because, like, she swallowed a little bit of water in the bathtub that she's going to, like, have delay drowning and, like, not wake up? Like, why would you think that? And then it's like, no, that's an intrusive thought. And, like, she's fine. And, you know, thank you for.

[Bronwyn]

I think that every night when I'm like, he's been fed and then he's sleeping and I'm just like, what, he's going to be just choking at night?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah. Or it's like, is she breathing? Is she breathing? She's probably not breathing. Is she? And they're just like, not breathing.

[Nick Viall]

I've put, like, my hand on Rivers back or laid my ear against her chest just to make sure she's breathing, you know? Like, I've definitely done that. Just.

[Bronwyn]

I do that all the time, the breathing check all the time.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

It's such a crazy. So, Margot, hope you, you know, have.

[Emily Baker]

You intrusive thoughts before?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Definitely not to this extent. I mean, I've always had a, like, intruder syndrome where I always feel like tonight's tonight, someone's gonna break in tonight. Tonight I'm gonna be killed. Like, I. I feel like I've always struggled with that, but it's like intensified now that we have a child. But the intrusive thoughts, like, are really wild and are crazy.

[Nick Viall]

Well, speaking of caring too much, James Vanderpeek had to apologize to his loved ones. Well, first of all, Sad Vanderb has been diagnosed with some kind of cancer. Hopefully they caught it in time. But he is now apologizing to his loved ones who had to find out of his cancer diagnosis through the media. Well, did this, did his cancer diagnosis get leaked?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Allegedly, yeah. A tabloid had planned to leak the information.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

That's fucked up.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

So I think it got out through that. Yeah.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Well, then that makes sense for him to be like, you know, I'm sorry that that's how you found out that way. Like, that's definitely not how.

[Nick Viall]

I don't think James Van Der Peek has to apologize.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I don't think he has to either. I think he probably felt like, you.

[Nick Viall]

Know, no, I hear you there. But I hope that no one in his family made him feel like they were frustrated with him because, like, I mean, this is obviously a very sensitive issue, but like, this happens all the time where it's just like we didn't like, go down the list of every person we knew when we got engaged to make sure that we like, let them know before we posted about it, you know. But sometimes people feel a certain way about that and it's just like it always like, reminds me like how self centered people are when they make your day about themselves. Like, you don't. I'm not checking with my entire circle of influence or my friends to make sure, like, you're good on my day, whatever my day is, or my moment.

[Bronwyn]

When I got engaged, I posted a story right after because I kind of just wanted to be hands free and not be on my phone for the rest of the afternoon. And I had friends who were actually upset with me that I didn't FaceTime them and tell them before I posted it on my story.

[Nick Viall]

All your friends thought in that moment, like, their feelings were more important than your engagement.

[Bronwyn]

And I felt bad too.

[Nick Viall]

I was like, no, I'm sure you did because you're a nice person.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

If I had to guess, I would say James Van Der Beek is a people pleaser and probably just felt very much like.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Well, he specifically said there's no playbook for how to announce these things. But I plan on talking about it at length with People magazine at some point soon to raise awareness and tell my story on my own terms. But that plan had to be altered early this morning when I was informed that a tabloid was going to run the news. So he's basically pressured to release the information.

[Emily Baker]

I feel like that statement, like, it's a very disgusting, disgusting thing when tabloids like, leak information that's so personal and so like, just unethical.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

We talked about this on plus last week where like Perez Hilton has made a career on leaking information.

[Nick Viall]

How can. Why isn't that that illegal? Which, like, why is it to some.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Degree it has become.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, it's like, why doesn't tabloids have. Follow the same, like, HIPAA laws that, like, I mean, I know they're not doctors, they're not taking the oath, but, like, people's medical information shouldn't be like, so freely passed around.

[Emily Baker]

Well, I think with a tabloid it's already past hipaa. I think HIPAA really only like.

[Nick Viall]

No. Yeah. And I don't think it's going to be a HIPAA thing, but it just seems wrong that you people should are allowed to just talk about people's health so freely. Like media outlets.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I mean, when Kate the Royal, when she had. Yeah, I mean, her situation was different, but.

[Emily Baker]

Or like when tmz, like released information about like Kobe Bryant's death before his family knew. It's just like I feel like the James Van Der Beek thing, though, a lot of it is like that statement was kind of him trying to take the narrative back from that tabloid versus, like. Like, it wasn't an apology.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

It was like it's him being like, I'm going to put this out. So now every news article can write about it and I'm talking about it with one thinking they have like the same.

[Ramses]

I will say that that's my biggest problem right now. Even with the Margot Robbie and people being upset that she had a boy that I feel like us as a society are way too entitled to other people's personal information that like the fact that. Are you going to make a bunch of money by releasing somebody's health diagnosis? Probably. But I'm like, there's just no ethics, nothing that goes into it. And yet you feel like you're giving society something that they needed to know. That doesn't change anybody's life knowing about James Van Der Beek's health diagnosis. But you did just put him in a situation where now he has to speak about something that's none of our business.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I will say, on the flip side, though, there's celebrities like Tom Holland where they just. Completely off the grid. Like, not on Instagram.

[Ramses]

I love him.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

And now, recently, in an interview, Tom was asked what was the last thing he Googled. And basically he fessed up to and said, well, sometimes I Google Zendaya. So his girlfriend. And basically he said, the last thing I Googled was actually Zendaya. I'm not on social media and I delete it when I'm not using it. So sometimes, like, it's more a bit of an anxiety thing, but I'll check to see if everything's good and to make sure we're all cool.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Interesting.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

So, like, he just checks. He'll just look and be like.

[Nick Viall]

It's very vulnerable for him to admit.

[Ramses]

But it's like, can't he just text her?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, that's what I was like. Just like, you good?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

But it said nothing.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Like, why do you need to know what, like, the tabloid headlines are spreading about, like, your girlfriend.

[Ramses]

But I will say I saw a really cute video of them. I don't remember where they are, but it's like paparazzi is just flooding her, and he, like, realizes that she's not right behind him, and he's, like, pushing people out of the way. And I was like, yes, my little short.

[Emily Baker]

I do love her. Tom Holland and I, one thing in common, we both like to Google Zendaya sometimes.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Y'all have that in common.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Do you Google Zendaya?

[Emily Baker]

I've googled. I've definitely googled Zendaya.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

You know, one of my flexes is I saw Zendaya perform at the Sacramento State Fair way before she was famous.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

What was last? What was the last thing y'all Googled? Why don't you pull it up?

[Nick Viall]

Hackers?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Why don't you pull it up?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I have private on, so I can't check.

[Bronwyn]

Oh, my God. Mine is who won football?

[Ramses]

Mine is when was da Vinci alive?

[Emily Baker]

Mine is song.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Oh, my God.

[Emily Baker]

You know the song that's like, I took a picture of my cat and he was yawning. It looked like he was screaming. And I wanted to put that in the. In the Instagram.

[Ramses]

Just pull up your browser. It'll be the last thing on your browser.

[Nick Viall]

No, it's. It's just my main screen. And then it goes to Shopify.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

You know what would really expose.

[Nick Viall]

It says, November.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

What's happening?

[Nick Viall]

Search history. It just gives me the first.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

What was the last thing you searched on Instagram?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

He'd Be clearing his. He's like, it's so crazy. Like, my history's just gone.

[Ramses]

I haven't googled anything since October.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

That's crazy. Someone to, like, hack my phone or something.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Suddenly he doesn't know how to use a phone.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Mine was best erotic thriller books.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Wait, what did it show?

[Nick Viall]

Well, we were feeling unsatisfied at home.

[Emily Baker]

Nick has deleted search history.

[Nick Viall]

You have ever.

[Ramses]

She's got fairy smut.

[Tyler]

Nick.

[Ramses]

We get. No, literally.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

We get in bed, and Nick's like, all right, good night. And I'm like, rita chopped her. And he took off her panties while her wings flutter.

[Nick Viall]

That's so funny.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

It's a wild concept.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

That is crazy.

[Nick Viall]

Anyways.

[Emily Baker]

Brings a whole new meaning to fairy dust. Anyway.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

A whole new meaning. How are you feeling about Martha Stewart complaining about Ryan Reynolds? Nick.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah, your best friend, your bestie Nick.

[Nick Viall]

We're not best friends. I am.

[Emily Baker]

Sounds like your best friend.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Nick is a big fan of Ryan.

[Emily Baker]

Are you trying to. Travis, Kelsey, Taylor Swift, Ryan Reynolds.

[Nick Viall]

Say more. What do you mean?

[Emily Baker]

Oh, interesting shooting your shot in the podcast.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, yeah, sure. I aspire to be friends with Ryan Reynolds for sure.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

How did it make you feel when Martha Stewart said that? She says her neighbor is Ryan Reynolds.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

What's your quote she said, is not so funny in real life. He's very serious. He can act funny, but he isn't funny.

[Nick Viall]

I felt triggered.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

And you want to know something? He's not so funny in real life. She insisted, no, he's not so funny. He's. How many times did you say that? I mean, good Lord. She's like, you know, I don't know if she got my point across, but he's not funny.

[Nick Viall]

Why did she say this?

[Emily Baker]

Do you know what is very funny? That quote.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

It was. It was in an interview with Bilt, and basically she continued on saying he's probably on the list just because he covers himself up in his movies and you don't see his face. Is he one of those. Question mark.

[Nick Viall]

One of those what?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Like, those people that just, like, say they're funny but aren't funny.

[Nick Viall]

The Internet thinks he's funny.

[Emily Baker]

This is very Ariana Maddox on Vanderpump Rules. Being like, you guys obviously don't take sketch comedy very seriously.

[Nick Viall]

It's just the idea that. Like, the idea that you're, A, supposed to perform for your neighbors. And B, like, I would say, what, 80, 90% of the people in the comedy business or entertainment industry don't walk around life being funny. I met Kevin Hart once. Didn't make me laugh.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Right, well, you have a point. So she's neighbors with him, so some interaction she's had with him outside of a performing context is what she's basing it on.

[Nick Viall]

Also, Ryan Reynolds never claimed to be a comedian. He can write a good joke, right? He's obviously creative and funny.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Like, well, he did tweet a response saying, I disagree with her, but I tried that once. The woman is unexpectedly spry. She really closed the gap after a mile or so.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, he can write a good joke. Like, he's not a. See?

[Emily Baker]

But was that response funny?

[Nick Viall]

It wasn't his best work, I don't think.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

You know, I thought it was a little. I thought it was like a little haha. Cheeky.

[Nick Viall]

Here's the thing.

[Emily Baker]

Martha Stewart is trying to write a joke in response to someone calling you not funny is maybe the hardest thing to do, though. So I do have to kind of, I guess give him credit for that.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, that's true.

[Nick Viall]

And then, and then his best friend slash, you know, Internet enemy said someone had to say it or something. Finally, finally someone said.

[Emily Baker]

He said, yeah, yeah, that's a funny guy.

[Nick Viall]

No, but like, I, like, obviously Martha Stewart's an icon for all the obvious reasons, whether it's her being an ex con or friends with Snoop Dogg or the fact that she is like, you know, the MacGyver of the kitchen. But also, if I met Martha Stewart, be like, well, she didn't teach me how to book cookies, you know, like what? Like, I don't know. I don't.

[Emily Baker]

Ryan Reynolds didn't, like, get shot in the chest and come back.

[Nick Viall]

Deadpool.

[Emily Baker]

Is that the whole thing that he does?

[Nick Viall]

Well, he's dead. Yeah, yeah.

[Emily Baker]

Deadpool can't die, essentially.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I mean, Martha's not funny, right? Her existence is funny.

[Emily Baker]

I think she's a comedy queen.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

You think so?

[Emily Baker]

Yes.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

She can be funny, I think for sure. I don't, I don't. I don't like Ryan Reynolds checking his mail the same time Martha is. And him be like, hey, good morning. And I'm like, well, that wasn't funny. So it feels like a little weird.

[Nick Viall]

I'm sorry. Like, is he not. And I imagine a lot of times he probably is a pretty serious guy, you know?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Do you guys ever hide from your neighbors?

[Nick Viall]

All the time.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

So that's the thing. Sometimes I look at like, the peephole and I'm like, okay, are they outside? Okay, now it's my time to go.

[Emily Baker]

I want to know the neighbor beef between Ryan Reynolds and Martha Stewart. I want to know how she's waiting outside. Is he waiting outside? Like, did she say this?

[Bronwyn]

She's going in the back door.

[Nick Viall]

The problem with my neighbors is they're like my two neighbors on each side. Incredibly kind. So kind and outgoing and want to get to know us and they, like, force us to be engaging. But it is. I don't want to do it.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

You know, sometimes you want to take out the trash and your underwear and not be confronted.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, same. Sure. Yeah.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

We don't need to talk about everything.

[Nick Viall]

I tell you what, if I do want to take the trash out of my underwear, I definitely do not want to be talking to my neighbors.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

That's what I'm saying.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I don't want to have to tell a joke. I don't want to have to.

[Emily Baker]

You're like, man, I'm just trying to take my trash out. They want me to do a tight five in my tighty whities.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

You know who is funny? Marissa from Love is Blind. I'm sorry, this. The PR backlash after.

[Nick Viall]

No, her behavior is funny. Well, if you say, well funny haha. Like, we're laughing at her.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, I think she's like, well, I don't know what she's doing. Funny.

[Ramses]

Like, off.

[Nick Viall]

She is shitting the bed. She's shitting the bed is what she's doing.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

And I love Marissa, but it's.

[Nick Viall]

Well, that's the thing. It's like, we, we. We love Marissa. But, like, lately it's kind of like, marissa, well, I think we loved you.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah. I think the behavior at the reunion was gross on, for my opinion, like, Hannah. And Hannah.

[Ramses]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I mean, I just didn't appreciate Marissa, like, really honing in on, like, Nick D. Yeah. And it's like, what? We're just sending, like, hate. Like, now we want, like, you got enough hate now? It's like, okay, now everyone go attack him for, like, not thinking I'm attractive. As soon as he saw me, it's.

[Ramses]

Like, it's the best friends for me that I was like at the reunion, she was like, dying on the hill. That this is my best friend and I know everything. And Nick, you're not being forthcoming. And then does what? Good Morning America.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

And then it was like, good morning Washington.

[Nick Viall]

Good morning Washington. For people who don't know the local, like, news show. Like, they're all from D.C. they had a panel of a handful of the people from the show. Marissa was being one of them and completely walked back her comments was like, well, we're not, like, best friends. Like, we're, like, friends on the show. And she was like.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

And I don't stand by her behavior. Like, the way she treated Nick was unacceptable.

[Nick Viall]

Stand by. Like, you were literally.

[Ramses]

You jumped in.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Ramses]

Tag team.

[Nick Viall]

She was. She was like, no, no, no, girl, you're doing enough. Me help.

[Ramses]

Yeah. Like, I don't think we've eviscerated her bad enough.

[Nick Viall]

Boom. Meanwhile, like, we got nothing from her out of the whole Ramses of it all.

[Ramses]

Besides the fact that they were still. Well, that was just randomly thrown. Berating Nick. And then she's like, we all make mistakes or do stupid things. I was this man. And it was just like, whoa.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Whoa. Yeah. He was like, well, if. If you were so mad at me for, like, these comments, why'd you call me, like, after? And then Marissa was like, we all have died. That's why I kept fucking hitting.

[Nick Viall]

First of all, I think Ramses comments about birth control and condoms have nothing to do with whether Marissa continues to fuck him or not. Like, it's a separate criticism. It doesn't let Ramses off the hook, like, for his comments. And, like, we've all, like, listen, we've all had sex with people or gone back with people we know aren't right for us. Like, I don't fault Marissa for having a weak moment. Like, that has nothing to do with how she's handling.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No, no, we're not saying that. I think it's just that we're saying the fact that, like, we got nothing from their conversation. The only thing we did get is, like, to find out that they were. They continued fucking.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I feel like Marissa's mom did tap in, though.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Marissa's mom.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Everything she said, I was like.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

She was stirring the fucking. She was, like, leaning over to Katie and being like.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Well, she made you feel that way the whole time.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

For a whole year. Made you. And honestly. Valid fucking question.

[Nick Viall]

Valid question. Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Like, don't just move on.

[Nick Viall]

Marissa's mom is like, y'all aren't friends at all. Yeah, they aren't. They're not even. Not best friends. They're barely even friends. For Marissa to, like, backtrack her comments like, she did. Did so quickly and what set. And I'm curious. Like, she really gave Ramses a window in redemption. And I'm curious to hear random, random thoughts when we talk about them.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Because, like, listen, you're saying Marissa did.

[Nick Viall]

Marissa. Sorry. Marissa gave during the reunion and in the interview with that DC show, she gave, like, I Am willing to lean in the. Into the popular narrative. She is willing to throw someone under the bus, you know, for her own benefit or her friend's benefit. Right. So, like, it suggests that, you know, she wouldn't go against the grain if she thought it would benefit her publicly.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Because you're saying the switch up, right? Where it's like, she went in on Nick and now she's friends with Nick.

[Bronwyn]

She appears even when she came on here, she. We were talking about how Hannah wasn't treating Nick nicely and she agreed with us.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah, but she called her best friend. She called her best friend on our show too.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

So I think you can be best friends with her and be like, I didn't. I don't support her actions. Like I. That, you know, watching. That was hard to watch because it's, I think, hard to watch for anyone. But then to not even like, hold her accountable at the reunion when clearly Hannah has not learned a damn thing. I mean, like, she showed no remorse. She showed zero. It's like, yeah, I'm direct. Yeah. Like, I guess he was. I guess he was patient with me.

[Nick Viall]

I should work on that. Meanwhile, like, yeah, she wanted to like, get even. Nick did the right thing where she's like, hey, I just want to point out that Hannah is a really good, nice person, but she doesn't deserve the hate. And then she took that opportunity to then try. Try to throw him under the bus. Be like, well, why are you liking their comments? I would be willing to bet that some of the comments he allegedly liked were he was maybe liking people defending him and not criticizing her would be. Would be my guess. That being said, like, yeah, it's just like, also, yeah. The whole like, admit you thought I was ugly. Admit you thought I looked like a hundred a. Like what? Like this. The whole thing we liked about Nick is that like, he didn't take the bait from producers about like, maybe how he might real really feel. And he chose to like, not be problematic. He chose to maybe keep some of his opinions to himself because he thought some of those opinions might be hurtful. And so what? Then he had an off camera conversation with his boys. His boys, like everyone just being honest with how they feel. And those boys, some of which include Steven, someone we clearly can't trust, who has no integrity, throws Nick D. Under the bus. And we're what we're supposed. And you want us to now hate Nick D. Because he still refuses publicly to like, disparage Hannah. I don't. Like, Hannah wants to be like, call me ugly. Call me ugly. Call me ugly. Just so that she can, like, have the Internet shit on him.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

And it's also, like, we watched this entire season, and maybe he said that, but he showed zero actions of thinking that. I mean, he stood by her side the entire time. He was, like, wanting to work through it. He was, like, okay with her talking so down to him. Like, he never once was like, well, I'm not really attracted to you. Like, he never once let it slip that Maybe he's not 100% attracted to her. And so I think that, like, shows me enough that he, you know, like, maybe you heard this from someone, and maybe that is, like, where some insecurities came in and why you were treating him the way that you were. But his. His actions never once showed that, at least from what we saw.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Well, the specific word was underwhelmed was what they kind of, like, got down to. What he said is when the revealed.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Her, like, a five out of ten or something.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Well, that's what they said. But then he basically, he chalked it up to being like I said, I was underwhelmed. So, I mean, we still don't know exactly what was happening.

[Nick Viall]

I'm sorry. Like, when. When you girls get together and you talk your shit or whatever it is, you fine, talk your shit. Do your thing. You know, girls get together. They. You guys talk about shit. Boys get together. Like, these are meant to be private conversations and certainly within reason, but, like, you don't get to go and then have, like, someone spy on this conversation who wants to, like, you know, either be, like, a pick me or a guy. Well, I guess pick me can go both ways. But then to, like, be like, you know what Nick D. Said in the middle of this conversation where no one was supposed to hear about that. And we also also probably said a bunch of shit, too. But, yeah, he called her A5.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

But it's also like, you. You said you weren't attracted to him either. You were like, oh, my God, he lied. He said this, he said that. The only differ. You said it to the camera, you said it to the world, and he said it to his boys. And then for Ramses to sit next to him and be like, okay, now's the time to take accountability. I was like, you're the one who wants to say it's time to take accountability. But you've sat here mute the last hour.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

He wouldn't even look. He was, like, looking forward.

[Ramses]

Ridiculous. And the applause for it, too, where it's like, really? Because he spoke up one Time. Also her putting him on blast about the notebook thing, where it's like, you and your friends do his stuff. Like, weird that to me, where I'm like, you lost all credibility when you started off with my friends thought it would be fun to go through his thing.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

You're a bully. And. And did y'all see that she posted said notebook on her Instagram story?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Oh, did she? So she took a photo, a friend.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Of hers posted it, and she reshared it onto her story.

[Nick Viall]

And after the reunion dropped. This girl has to me.

[Bronwyn]

I'm trying to be the most famous person from Love is Blind.

[Ramses]

Thank you.

[Nick Viall]

Also, yes. I don't care. They're all trying to be famous. They win on tv. They all have their Instagrams active and.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

On married in 30 days, making TikTok sounds to cheeky trending music. They're all trying to go viral.

[Ryan]

All of them.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Every single one of them.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, shut.

[Emily Baker]

Fuck up all of this line. And you're like, I don't want any attention.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, I'm deleting my Instagram. No one follow me. No one follow me.

[Emily Baker]

I just really came on here for love.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

She did look snatched on my couch. Makeup was fire.

[Nick Viall]

Hannah. Yeah, she looked good.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Honestly, everyone looked great. Ramses came in with his little villain outfit. I will say he was giving a little villain and I'll ask him about if he chose that for a reason.

[Ramses]

Taylor gave a trophy wife.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I was going to say that outfit.

[Ramses]

I was like, I don't know how. She's sitting in it.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Taylor and Garrett were eating.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Garrett was the voice of reason.

[Nick Viall]

He was thrill.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

He would just say one thing.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah.

[Bronwyn]

Garrett's face the whole time was just like.

[Nick Viall]

And we will be talking with Garrett and Taylor next Wednesday for a groundbreaking episode of Going Deeper. We'll get all of their answers about the reunion, their relationship. They've been married over a year. We'll actually get to talk to the couples that you didn't get to hear from at the reunion. They have a little insight about the reunion. It's really quite fascinating as well. But also, yes, Stephen, him making the.

[Ramses]

Joke about the meat, trying to get to his segment that much faster. Like, homeboy, calm down. And even then, you gave us literally nothing, nothing, nothing.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

He's like, well, I'm not going to explain it because no one's going to believe me. It's like, well, we're not believing you because you're not explaining anything.

[Nick Viall]

Just.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Just say something.

[Nick Viall]

And you're still lying. He was like, oh, I don't Remember? And then he started describing, reciting the text. And then he made it seem like it was just like two sentences. And then Monica was like, no, there were fucking paragraphs.

[Ramses]

I deleted the text. I never delete a text thread.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, he said.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

He said he only talked to her that day. And the Monica's like, well, there was a whole thing. And he's like, well, I knew her before for years.

[Ramses]

I've never met her in person because I met her on Instagram.

[Nick Viall]

And I actually do believe that. I absolutely believe he's never met her in person.

[Ryan]

Sure.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

But they definitely messaged before.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Like, I mean, he wasn't. He wasn't wrong when he went on his high horse, or not high horse, but soapbox and was like, no matter what I say here, you guys are going to hate me. That part. I was like, okay, you're not wrong.

[Ramses]

You're not wrong.

[Nick Viall]

You're a try give us something.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Self awareness, though. True.

[Nick Viall]

No, that's not self awareness. That's being. That's playing the victim. He was playing the victim when you're not the actual victim.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

He knew there was no savings. So I think he was just like.

[Ramses]

The way that he was like the casual conversation of just like, hey, what have you been up to? So I'm into some new fetishes, but I just had to ask as a friend.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No, it was like it started because she, like, reached out about a heart condition and then it turned to fetishes and it's like, I mean, I guess.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Might as well ask about it.

[Ramses]

Are you a doctor, sir?

[Nick Viall]

And his excuse was like something along the lines of, like, well, old me would have done this. And I wanted to see what new me would do. And it's just like, to Monica's point, bro, don't be showing up to love as fucking blind, pretending that you're ready to get in marriage when you're. This is not the show to find.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yourself or to challenge yourself to see if you've, like, overcome demons.

[Nick Viall]

No, challenge yourself to see if you have like any type of character whatsoever.

[Ramses]

Yeah, like run a marathon. Do something. Do something different.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Oh, my God.

[Emily Baker]

Oh, my God. Did you see at the New York marathon, someone held up a sign that.

[Nick Viall]

Said, lisa wants to go to the dances.

[Bronwyn]

Yeah, that was really funny.

[Nick Viall]

That made me laugh. That was really great.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I saw a pregnant woman holding a sign that was like, we all know you know how to finish.

[Emily Baker]

Oh, here, man. People are good with those signs.

[Nick Viall]

We love that. What else said at the reunion, Tim.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

And Alex, the Tim And Alex stuff was wild to me. Just the way they were communicating specifically.

[Nick Viall]

I think I'm gonna, I'm, I'm definitely in the odd men out here, but I'm, I, I'm Team Tim.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I, I, I see Team Tim's side.

[Nick Viall]

I see, I see them both.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah, me too.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Well, yeah, I think it was disrespectful for Alex to take a nap. I also, like, don't think it's that big of a deal at the end of the day. Also, I understand her being like, I didn't, you know, I, I worked, I had to work. I. This condition where I get tired easily, like, all that makes sense. I think as her partner, he could have, like, given her a little bit of, like, you know, understanding.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

There was stuff that was, I feel like we didn't fully address too, because basically she said she was with the family from 11 to 6, then had to bartend from 9 to 3. Her first time ever bartending.

[Nick Viall]

And then the one time you bartended since the show was today. You're meeting his family, but didn't you.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Could catch where he was like, kind of implying that she was partying a lot. He tried to twist it and she was like, no.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

She was like, no, no, no. Let's correct. We were out to dinner the night before.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. And again, I think we all agree that there's clearly not a match.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Not at all.

[Nick Viall]

You know, he is a very earnest guy who takes himself very seriously, but he is the type of guy who, he means what he says, he follows through.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And if he promises something, he's going to do it. And she's more kind. Like everything's kind of suggestion for Alex, you know? And I just think their personalities are just the polar opposites. It's weird. Especially if it's Love is Blind. These are a group of people who go through this very intense experience. Right. They film it at least, I don't know, nine months to a year and a half in advance from when it airs. Right. And then they, for the most part, live in the similar city. So, like, while they get done filming, between the time it's done filming and the time it airs, these group of people, like, kind of only have each other and they're clearly bonding for a lot of the times. Best friends, minus maybe the couples who get married to kind of do their own thing and kind of like focus on their relationship. And to see so many of these people show up to the reunion and just go fucking rogue and Absolutely. Throw some of their peers in slash friends under the bus for what they perceive as their own benefit is fucking crazy to me. The whole Marissa and Hannah dynamic, it's just like, there's just a bunch of freak friend bullshit that at the end of the day, when it comes down to like, what matters, like, at the end of the day, like, love Marissa. But the only thing, the only person that matters to Marissa is Marissa. Marissa just wants to look good and Marissa just wants people to suck with her.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And it's hard to argue against that because of all the backtracking and the flip flopping and they're not standing on anything.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

You know, just to close off the Tim and Alex part of it. Like, I feel like by the end of that conversation, just the, the room realized, like, we're not getting anywhere with this. Because the whole time he was like, well, you called me a little bitch. And she's like, well, you are a little bitch. And he's like, well, why'd you call me a little bitch? And it's like, okay.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, it felt like, I mean. And honestly, Taylor and Garrett gave us an insight on how long that conversation actually went. Yeah, I think at the end of the day they're just not meant to be together. I think once you like put your hands on someone and like call them out of their name and like he gets loud and I understand why she was doing it if she's like, you're like getting loud and yelling and production is right outside and like they're going to want to come in and film this and like, this is not something we need to have filmed. So her being like, sh.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Okay, there's a lot of controlling the edit too.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You know what? I don't need the Love is Mine reunions. I don't need to catch up with everyone.

[Ramses]

I was just going to say that, like, why did we spend 45 minutes? I had to like go. I'm like, who's Katie and why am I meeting her baby? Like 45 minutes. But I couldn't get a follow up question.

[Nick Viall]

Also, ad, if you don't want to talk about your current relationship, just say no.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I love her. I loved seeing her on my screen.

[Nick Viall]

That was like, it was a 32nd.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

But it was like she, she could have given us what Britney did, which is like, yeah, I'm seeing someone and like, I'm not. That's all I'm going to say.

[Nick Viall]

But she gave all like a whole like 30 second performance. So it's like, maybe I'M wrong.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

But isn't it like leaked that she's part of Perfect Match?

[Nick Viall]

Sure, yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

So she could just be teasing Perfect Match.

[Ramses]

I know, but like, I'm just saying we need segment.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, we don't need. I like, love Bliss, love Zach. Like, we follow them on Instagram, we see their lives. We don't, you know, like, I don't need the ketchup. I don't need the like the 80s.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Reactions though, were everything.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No, no, they ate and like, I need. I love the reactions. I don't need. Everybody tell me about your life since the show.

[Ramses]

They should be making that its own special. Where are they now? What are we up to?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Oh, sure. There you go.

[Ramses]

It's so easy.

[Bronwyn]

And I won't watch it.

[Ramses]

Yeah, exactly. Or you could do a spin off of these characters that you love so much that you need to bring back.

[Nick Viall]

To reunion end or something. I guess this is the most frustrating we get. Like, no, it's like, hey, hey, Ramses, any thoughts? He's like, clearly, I don't think that. Anyways, we're moving on. Let's spend 20 minutes on AD and Nick and Zach and Bliss or I don't know.

[Ramses]

Yeah, for me it was like the lack of follow up questions too, where I'm like, it just reminded me of the end of the Love island reunion when it was like, Rob, we're going to ask you the question that everybody wants to know. Are you still wearing overalls? And it was like, nobody. There's so many other more important questions to ask.

[Nick Viall]

Vanessa clearly doesn't watch the show.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

You think so?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I, I think she skims. I think she skims something else.

[Nick Viall]

She like, you know, she might prep for, you know, the big day of the interview and watch some clips and skims and she gets like the Cliff Notes from her team, but she is not a fan and she doesn't watch.

[Ramses]

But she spends time on those jokes.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I do also think what's important.

[Emily Baker]

What's wrong with that?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I do think what's important for hosts the jokes to like.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Well, I mean, but a host has to be more than just to Natalie's.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, I think they like, need to be paying attention to like the Tiktoks and what the audience is saying and what like, is going on in the outside world while the show's airing. Like, that's the stuff they need to be paying attention to because that's the stuff we as viewers want to know.

[Nick Viall]

Look like you have an honest opinion or a take on what we watch that you sincerely believe in and that you want to have a point of view on. You know, that's what I want to hear.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I also, like, didn't need to see the photos of Britney and Leo in Miami. It's like a selfie and then a photo of the. Watch, watch. It's like. That felt like it was 10 minutes long. And it's for what? Like, okay.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I did like their conversation though. Like, Leo and Britney.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Love Leo and Britney. Big fans. But they're like. And we have footage from Miami. And it's like, no, you don't. Like, I was.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

That's when you're right. Because they're like, let's show them footage picture.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. There's no follow up questions from them. There's no like, well, what do you mean by that? Like, Andy Cohen's great at that. He's great at being like, wait, hold on. Like you just said something that doesn't make sense. Let's go.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah.

[Bronwyn]

It almost felt like everybody came prepared to say what they wanted to say. They said their thing and then there were no follow up questions that actually got them to like, pause and get stuck and come up with something else. And let's wrap it up.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Well, let's just wrap it up. How many times did Nick say that?

[Ramses]

Vanessa. Vanessa loved that joke.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Oh, my God, it was.

[Ramses]

They spent more time on jokes than they did on follow up questions or what we actually want to know about.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Wait, at some point they do need to get new hosts.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Oh, yeah.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I mean, how many seasons of love is blind are we on now? This is seven.

[Ramses]

They just celebrated their five year anniversary during the reunion.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah, well, Minneapolis will be the five year.

[Ramses]

Yeah, my bad. They're about two.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I mean, Leo, comparing choosing between Britney and Hannah to pasta and steak.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, that was brutal.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

But like, people are eating it up. People are eating it up. And who's the steak and who's the pasta?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I want to know, what am I?

[Emily Baker]

Do you guys feel like you're more pasta or steak?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I'm definitely more pasta.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I mean, I don't eat beef, so I'm a pasta pasta, steak, steak. I'll be impossible meat. I'll take that E. I love Impossible Chemical meat.

[Nick Viall]

No, no, hear me out.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

If eat it two times, you won't know the difference the first time.

[Nick Viall]

I don't doubt. Wait. First of all, I will always notice the difference, but there's no way that shit's healthier for you.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Oh, for sure it is.

[Nick Viall]

It's not chemically made. It may not be like, I'm not eating red meat, you know, for whatever the negative.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

It is questionable that it, it's plant that bleeds like meat, but I do love.

[Emily Baker]

There's a lot of sodium in that.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

It tastes good though.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

How's your cholesterol?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Not bad.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Comparing.

[Nick Viall]

I don't know if it's cholesterol is the marker.

[Bronwyn]

I feel like Leo is the only one who has, who has taken accountability for his actions and who's come back on social media and has redeemed himself.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

People love him on social media. He's. People are saying, little did we know we would hate him in the show but love him because he's like kind.

[Nick Viall]

Of a, he's kind of presents a bit of a dork kind of guy and he, he doesn't have a filter. He says kind of these outlandish things which you know for real from reality tv, you can easily edit something. When people don't have a filter. It's easy to make them look foolish or stupid or kind of out of touch. But you know, you, the more you get to see of Leo, it's just like a guy who is actually more self aware than you realize, doesn't take himself that seriously and more than anything can like admit when he's wrong. And that's all we really want to hear from these people when they fuck up is just like, you know what? That was fucked up of me and I'm really ashamed. And we don't want to hear excuses, even if excuses are valid. We know, Ramses, that this show is edited. We get it. Like, how did you get to a point where the show could actually even take you out of context? Is my question. Yeah, we'll ask them shortly.

[Ramses]

That's what you want to see. You want to see people take accountability and what Leo's doing make fun of themselves where it's like, oh, that that's not who I am or that's not my personality. But my God, that guy did talk about money a lot, didn't he? Like, you know, make fun of yourself but also be like, yeah, I looked.

[Nick Viall]

Like a douche or like, like that wasn't my intention, but I realize how I sound when I talk about.

[Ramses]

And I'll take note of that.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah, you know what Leo does do? What is share drinks. He does share drinks and anything and everything thing.

[Nick Viall]

That's fine.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

That was interesting. Well, that's what Britney was saying. Like that was the first thing she was like, I can't do this because any drink she had he needed, even if it was the same drink he would drink her drink.

[Ramses]

They could never do a Nick and Natalie sharing a cup of water to go to bed. I'll never forget that moment. I go, yo, yo.

[Tyler]

What?

[Nick Viall]

We share cup.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I do the same thing.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Ramses]

So do you have to wake up in the middle of the night and be like, hey, hand me the cup?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yes.

[Ramses]

Damn, that's love. Like, get your own.

[Nick Viall]

Can I have a drink?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Do you also share the water?

[Nick Viall]

Just the water.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

We don't. No. Nick will take my toothbrush if we're traveling and he didn't bring one.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Is it a fresh toothbrush?

[Bronwyn]

Oh, really?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I have like a travel toothbrush.

[Nick Viall]

Am I supposed to take it every.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Time or a new one?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No, I take.

[Nick Viall]

And explain to me how it's any different than making out.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No, no, no. We don't share. He takes mine.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

But you share the same travel one every single time.

[Nick Viall]

No, no. Now he's disgusted by the fact that I.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No, no, no, no. I take. I take a tooth. I take. I have a travel toothbrush, and I have a toothbrush at home.

[Nick Viall]

Ali never forgets a toothbrush. I forget half the time.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

And he will. I. He'll use mine because he has forgotten his.

[Nick Viall]

Because it's like, I'm not like, babe.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I'll just bring one. That's not the conversation. It's. I'm packing mine, and I'm thinking, he's packing his.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

When you're traveling.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

We get there, and then he's like.

[Bronwyn]

You share a toothbrush when you travel.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

We don't share.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Here's a hack.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

He takes it. I want to make it very clear we don't share.

[Tyler]

Here's a hack, though.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

When you're traveling, every hotel has toothbrushes. Just go to the lobby and ask the person at the front.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Remember that, Nick.

[Nick Viall]

All right, well, let's see if Ramses is willing to share toothbrushes with his next girlfriend.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

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[Vanessa Grimaldi]

People will think you're dumb, think you're stupid.

[Nick Viall]

People will think you're a little bit of a dum dum. And that might not be accurate or fair, but sometimes that's just how life works.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Ryan]

Going y'all.

[Nick Viall]

How's it going?

[Ryan]

How's it going?

[Nick Viall]

Good Ramses.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Have you listened to the show?

[Tyler]

I Don't know.

[Ryan]

We were. Listen, listen, I was just gonna say I've. I've heard everything.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Ramses]

I don't.

[Ryan]

I don't take it personally. I recognize there's a lot to talk about, so I'm happy to answer questions.

[Nick Viall]

I. I said. I said, denali, this morning, I go, we have rams on day. She. What?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I want to applaud you because, honestly, I feel like so many people who go through similar experiences on other reality TV shows or Love is Blind will take these comments so personally and be like, nick hates us or this show. Like, fudge this show. I'm never talking to the show, so I do really want to, like, applaud you. And we appreciate you coming on to share the context and share your side of things 100%.

[Nick Viall]

We definitely don't say things to get people to come on to defend themselves, but because we obviously were just watching a show that we recognize can be edited and we don't meet the. These people. But you're right. Like, honestly, you show it up, man. We. If nothing else, we give you a lot of credit because we were definitely. I don't think we've been harder on anyone else on the show.

[Ryan]

No, I get it. I understand that you can only really comment on, you know, what you're seeing, and that's understandable, but I'm happy to, you know, provide context and sort of some explanations. I know amazing what is perceived seems really wild. And I promise, like, I'm not that person that people are trying to make me out to be, but happy to talk about it.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, so let's get into that. So we, obviously, we recognize the show can be edited and as edited and things like that, and you kind of alluded to that at the reunion. That being said, as someone who knows what it's like to be on reality tv, I guess it's just hard for me to understand how we can just blame editing across the board with, like, just how much was said about the two, like, whether it's the contraception or the period sex and things like that. So with that being said, can you just, like, fill in the gaps? Because even the reunion, you were like, hey, it's out of context. And then Nick and Vanessa told a couple puns and some Taylor Swift jokes, and they were like, wait, we want more Ramses. Anyways, can you. You just, like, put it to bed, so to speak, you know? What do you mean by out of context? And what was the actual conversation like?

[Ryan]

Yeah, so. So we'll start with the contraception conversation that was the first thing that sort of came up. I think that conversation, obviously it was a longer conversation. It was 30, 45 minutes long, I don't know how long. And you kind of just see two, two minutes or so of it. And really the whole point of that conversation was to talk about what our long term method, the contraception was going to be. I know the perception from it is like this guy's anti condom. This guy is sort of like just concerned about his own personal pleasure in this situation. Trust me, I'm well aware of, you know, what hormonal contraception can do to a woman's body. I'm aware of all of these things. And so, you know, we, me and Arisa are very candid when it comes to these sort of conversations. We're willing to say like, you know what it is, you know, whether it was the comment about, you know, sex with a condom being not as, you know, enjoyable as without one, obviously. So it, you catch these very candid moments. But there are also moments where I was trying to explain that, you know, I recognize that we live in a society where women, the pressure is primarily placed on women to deal with the question of contraception and that men typically don't have that responsibility placed on them. You only heard the second half of that. But I promise the point I was trying to make at that moment is just acknowledgement of the fact, fact that that is a reality that we're faced with. And so we talked about other methods of contraception. You know, we talked about a vasectomy and what it would look like for me to, to get a vasectomy. And I would look into that. And ultimately we talked about also, you know, using the, the rhythm method, you know, where, where Marissa would track her cycle and we would, you know, I would use a condom when I need to and vice, you know, whatever the case may be. And so this was a very nuanced conversation that we had that was really brought down into just kind of a couple minutes. And I was really just trying to be very considerate in that moment. I promise that's not the way it looks, but it's, it's. I was really trying to understand what would work best for us in a marriage. I promise I'm not anti condom or whatever the conversation.

[Nick Viall]

Do you guys ever discuss the old fashioned pull out? I mean, I know I'm not necessarily recommending it as a, as a one that always works and there's clearly risks, risks involved. But I think if we're being honest, many of us in Committed relationships, especially ones where the woman in the relationship doesn't want to take birth control. There's a little bit of like, eh, you know, we'll do our best, you know, and then we'll accept the consequences, whatever those consequences may be. Like, did you guys just practically just say, hey, well let's if this works out and we get married, like, you know, or were you just that anti kid at that time?

[Ryan]

So my thing with the. So no. So when we decided, you know, what our sort of solution was going to be, it was pretty much, yeah, mixture of pull out game and her cycle and sort of moving forward, she, you know, also agreed with me at the point that, you know, using a condom every single time in a marriage was probably not the most feasible thing or the thing that we both wanted in that situation. But even with the kids, you know, that's a conversation we had in the pods about what our timeline would look like. And so even in that conversation, like the timeline had changed with her. And so that kind of caught me off, off guard. But I, at no point I recognize the risk that we're taking, especially you know, playing the pull out game. I recognize the risk that we're playing there and I. And if we were to have kids, that's a responsibility I would take upon myself and you know, we would handle that situation. You know, that's, that's a risk that you're playing and I would have more. Been more than happy to take that responsibility if we had kids. So.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Okay, I under. Yeah, I appreciate all of this context. And we had Marissa on and she did bring up the vasectomy conversation and how that was included. Included but cut out of the edit. I do think, unfortunately the edit was against you because it was very much Marissa being like some of the best sex I've ever had is with the condom and you being like, well, I need to enjoy sex and I don't enjoy sex with the condom. So I do think the edit was a little bit against you in that conversation.

[Nick Viall]

You're not alone there, Ramses. No one, I don't think anyone's a fan of it.

[Ryan]

Well, clearly, I mean I think I felt, I felt like I just said the quiet part out loud and. But it just the way it was perceived, it's. It didn't look great on me and I honestly watching it back, my jaw was on the floor because I recognize what the conversation was and I knew it immediately like what the perception was going to be in that moment. So it was rough watching those conversations back for sure.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Okay. But you understand everyone's opinion because you clearly had the same. Watching it back, just being like, oh, my God, this is crazy.

[Ryan]

Listen, if I was an outside viewer watching this conversation back, I'd be like, yeah, this guy's a douchebag, like, immediately. So trust me, I understand.

[Nick Viall]

Can you add the context that was missing during the period Sex. Conversation. Conversation, Absolutely.

[Ryan]

So. So this conversation was something that had been building up over the past days, weeks. I understand. The perception of this is, you know, Marissa has. She's dealing with all of these health issues, right. And I am simply there only concerned about my pleasure, just trying to demand sex and just concerned about, you know, when is the next time. Why are we not having enough sex space. Basically, the way I approached this conversation was. Wasn't about sex. It was about our physical intimacy and the way it played out, not just, you know, in the bedroom, but it just. In our day to day, there were moments where we would go out on dates. And, you know, I'm. I'm a very affectionate person. I like to, you know, like, hug and, you know, hold hands and all of that. And there was like a moment, for example, where I kind of put my, my hand on her leg just to kind of as we were riding in the Uber or two a date, and she was like, like, please stop. And obviously I can respect that. You know, I know she has, like, ADHD and a lot of sensory stuff can be a lot for her, but there are also moments in, you know, just cuddling where she kind of brushes my arm off. And so I'm starting to notice, like, all of these. We're not communicating in terms of, like, our physical affection and intimacy. And it also played out in the bedroom. Like, I won't go into too much into detail, but it's. It pretty much, it felt very detached. It felt when we had sex that, you know, once we finished, she'd get up, go to the bathroom, clean off, and, you know, just kind of lay on the other side of the bed. And so I'm picking up on these things. And my concern was really our physical intimacy. It doesn't seem to be really connecting. Like, it feels like there's some sort of detachment there that I was concerned about because of the way that I communicate my love. And so if there wasn't incompatibility there, then that's something that I felt that we needed to talk about and we needed to sort of figure out because it's. It's something that I wanted to figure out before we got Married. It's not something that I wanted to, like, leave until we get married. It becomes an issue potentially. And then, you know, you have to deal with the. Just the heartbreak of a divorce. And so that was the way. The way I approached it. I recognize that Marissa, in her past has dealt with men who have not given her the respect when it comes to a lot of these issues she's dealing with when it comes to her. Her health. And so she's had these really wild expectations placed on her and how she should communicate and express herself. And so I can. I can understand why she came into that conversation probably thinking, like, oh, here we go again. Like, here's the same shit I've dealt with in the past, and this is the same type of guy that I'm dealing with now. But I think even after that conversation we had, we spoke more about it and we brought some clarity into what exactly it was that I was trying to focus on in that moment.

[Nick Viall]

So it's interesting hearing that, Ramses. I appreciate that context, but it almost sounds like Marissa got triggered by this conversation maybe from her past and then throughout, you know, hey, but I'm on my period. Why can't you be empathetic to what I'm feeling? Like? Do you feel like it, like, in that moment when she said that, where did you kind of give, like a. Oh, how. How is this going to be looked at in a way? Is that. Am I making sense? It's almost. It's like the. It's like a trump card conversation where it's like you're trying to connect with her and she's like, what? I'm on my period. Which obviously, as we're all watching, we're like, fuck this guy. You know, like, yeah, yeah, I get it. Yeah.

[Ryan]

No, of course. Like, I. I've. I've always. And I know it again, like, it probably doesn't. It doesn't come off that way. But I. When I approach conversations, I try to be very understanding, considered of, especially, you know, when it comes to a partner of where they are in that moment where there's, you know, whatever issues they may be dealing with. I would never try to, you know, either force myself or try to put her into a position where she has to, you know, she's dealing with all of these issues, but she has to, some, for some reason or another, prioritize, you know, my sexual pleasure or prioritize how I'm feeling in the moment. And so I understand why, you know, she was pissed off and, you know, she's Dealing with all of these things. And so I understand why she, in that moment, maybe didn't want to have that conversation. You know, unfortunately, like, in this experience, we, we don't have the luxury of time. And so there are times we're going to have conversations that we maybe don't want to have in the moment, or we may pushed into a situation where we have to speak on something, because every day is different. Every day, you know, you're presented with new issues in this experience, and you just don't have a lot of time. And so I recognize that, you know, and I see, you can see it on her face. I recognize that she's on comfortable. And so it was a, it was a difficult conversation. It was. I. I wanted me to recognize where she was at, but also communicate what I was feeling in the moment because we had a.

[Nick Viall]

We.

[Ryan]

We were less than a week out at that point, I believe.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. For the marriage, the timeline makes a lot of sense in terms of when anything happens in these moments like you, like you're describing. I think in real life, we have the benefit of saying to ourselves, yeah, maybe now. Not maybe now is not the time. You know, I'll table that for a second, you know, and then maybe a couple weeks later you bring something up. Hey, you know, this happened in the past and I want to talk about it when you're not feeling triggered. But yeah, you don't have that benefit of being like, well, I guess I just need to address it now. Here we go.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Do you think that that conversation is kind of what, like, ultimately shifted you to end the engagement?

[Ryan]

Not for me, no. I, like. So for some reason or another, our depiction of our, sort of our relationship is very focused on our physical connection. And it seems as if our sexual connection, our physical connection is something that's like, hyper important. For me, it's important, but it's not. It wasn't everything and ultimately it wasn't the. It wasn't something that shifted sort of my decision in the end. Um, I, I talked a lot about, like, our differences in our energies. And I know that word is like, sometimes it's just vague. It's like, what, like what do you mean by energy? And so. But I think we saw some of it, like at the reunion, but also just the way we, we. We perceive things, the way we react to things, the way we approach things is just I. My sort of temperament. I'm just very like, level, very. Just kind of, you're not going to see me, like, way too high or way too Low. Um, and so there was just a big difference in compatibility with us when it came to that. And it sort of sprouts out into other aspects of our relationship and our dynamic. And so in the end, I just, I didn't feel like there was that compatibility there because it's something that would have, it would have affected our day to day life if we decided to get married.

[Nick Viall]

Marissa, throughout the reunion that you guys started hooking up again, in what context did that start up again? Were you guys, you know, now that you're out of the love is blind bubble, thinking, all right, like, maybe we're not going to get married, but like, is there something there? Do we give it a shot? Or did you guys just agree to be like, like, hey, you know, we might not be a match, but we love fucking. Like, and then you just became hookup buddies. Like, what was the context? And yeah, can you, can you offer a little glimpse into that relationship?

[Ryan]

Yeah. So yeah, there wasn't any sort of like relationship or anything. It was. So it's, it's. Here's the thing. In this experience, you, you go zero to a hundred very quickly and you, you fall in love very quickly. You, you have these really genuine, intense feelings for each other very quickly. And once something like this ends, those, those feelings don't go away. Those desires, all of those things do not go away. And in the months that followed after the breakup, I made myself available to Marissa every, in any capacity that she needed in terms of our, like, conversation, in terms of helping Marissa just find the closure that she needed. This was a very heartbreaking, obviously everyone saw it, heartbreaking sort of situation. She had a lot of questions that I wanted to provide clarity for. And so, yeah, we, we talked a lot and there were occasions where she happened to be in D.C. and you know, things went where they went. She would reach out and. Yeah, but I also recognized very quickly too, that was not healthy. That was pretty, pretty toxic thing to do in light of, you know, just everything that's been going on, the breakup. You know, she deserves to move on, I deserve to move on in a healthy manner. And you know, having sex after such an intense sort of experience was, was not the best decision.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely toxic. And you're two adults who made an adult decision, so you both play a role. But I'm sure you also recognize looking back that maybe in that moment, especially as you kind of described, you were kind of the person who was a little bit more emotionally regulated and had moved on where you were like you said were to offer Marissa closure and that even if Marissa wanted to have sex in that moment, maybe the, the nicest thing for you to do in that moment would have been to reject the sex because that obviously can be very confusing and emotionally, you know, kind of gets people in a rabbit hole. And, and maybe that wasn't the nicest thing for you to do in that moment.

[Ryan]

I, hey, Listen, I agree 100% in the moment, you know, it's. You're caught up in the emotions of everything and it's. It's kind of like you make dumb decisions.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I've been, I've done. I mean, I've been there. So like, you know, I've. I've made your mistake. Multip.

[Ryan]

No, I recognize, I agree with you. I recognize that, you know, she was in this really vulnerable moment. We're both vulnerable. But in terms of, you know, moving on, that wasn't the best decision to make. And it, in, in a, in a sense, it sort of like, you know, kind of gives her false hope, you know, and I, trust me, I, I get it. I understand it. And it was the wrong decision in that moment for sure.

[Nick Viall]

Have you spoken to Marissa since the reunion regarding her behavior? Because she definitely gave you a little window of redemption. Because the reunion in her interview that like morning DC show when she completely locked back her friendship with Hannah was, Was not the Marissa I fell in love with on Love is Blind. And I was like, girl, what the fuck? What are you doing? Because, like, yeah, when we had her on the show, she had the opportunity to let you off the hook and she did not. I didn't feel like. I felt like she kind of put your feet to the fire. And her behavior at the reunion and in this interview that we saw kind of suggests to me that, you know, Marissa would be willing to do what she needed to do to look better post. Show. Can you either defend or I'm just curious your take on her behavior post. I was a little shocked. I was a little disappointed, to be honest.

[Ryan]

Yeah, so. So the depictions you see of everyone obviously on these, on something experience like this, everyone is sort of flattened. It's. It's very reductive. You're turned into like a one dimensional sort of character. So I, yeah, I see why people would have fallen in love with Marissa. I told her, like, people are going to love your personality. You know, she's. No, she's not a terrible person. But that you're starting to see just a broader picture of who Marissa is. You're getting more context around who she is. Interestingly enough, we had conversations leading up to the reunion. There was like a few weeks there where we were speaking almost every day where, you know, she was saying, like, don't worry, I'm going to defend you. I'm going to be, you know, I'm telling her, like, don't worry, we'll take care of each other. I don't have any animosity towards you. She's saying she doesn't have any animosity towards me. And then the reunion happened and it seemed like things just kind of split and so I, you know, at the end of the day, I'm not concerned in getting involved in like, just like all this social media, just all the craziness and all of that. Like, I'm a very low key dude. I'm not concerned of getting involved in all of that. You know, I guess all the drama surrounding all of this. But yeah, I think Marissa, I definitely do think she switched up. I do think that she sort of led me to believe that she was kind of like on my side and now she's doing. I've been reading all the interviews I've seen, you know, I saw her on, on speaking to you and it surprised me. But at the end of the day, you know, she's going to say what it is that she wants to say and you know, I can't get control that I can only speak, you know, from my perspective and provide, you know, my, my story from my side.

[Nick Viall]

So do you have any relationship with Marissa whatsoever right now? Are you guys just kind of like, have you moved on or would you describe yourself as friends? Where are we at?

[Ryan]

Yeah, this, at this point, yeah, there's no relationship at all. She texted me once, maybe after the reunion a couple times, but it's, it's gone. It went from just we were pretty friendly to now it's, there's, there's nothing there and, and that's fine. You know, I really do want her to be able to move on. This is what's a lot for, for both of us and I just, you know, wish her the best. But yeah, there's, there's nothing there between us at the moment.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

It appeared that she debuted her new relationship on Halloween. Did you know about this guy or did that caught take you by surprise?

[Ryan]

No, yeah, I was aware that she was dating someone. Uh, she's been dating him for the last few months or since early in the year and I was aware of that. So yeah, I'm happy for her and if it's someone that can, you know, embrace her for who she is and she's happy, that's, that's great. But yeah, it didn't catch me off guard.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Your reunion. Yeah, yeah, he's happy for your reunion outfit. I feel like you are kind of. The cut in the eyebrows, the haircut. He just did it.

[Nick Viall]

Know better. I think that's just.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I liked it.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No, no, no, he was, he was like serving fashion for sure. It was just a little on like the I'm giving like bad boy villain reputation.

[Nick Viall]

It looked like you were leaning into your character, so to speak.

[Ryan]

Yeah, I, I've, I've heard that. And honestly, like, I, I didn't really go in with that intention. Like, I just kind of pieced together the look. I just like, oh, I like this. Let me piece it with these pants. I like these, the, the loafers, whatever. But yeah, once I did put it on, I was like, damn, this is, this is giving like a little like villainy maybe, or like a little. I don't know. And then I, once I started seeing the remarks online, I was like, okay, I can see why people think that. But no, I didn't go in trying to embrace the villain. Sort of arch or whatever. It's. It just happened to, to look that way, I guess.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Did you feel pressured and I mean, and I would imagine why you would, if your answer is yes, to hold Nick accountable in that kind of team up against him.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Like stepping back from it. How do you feel about it all now?

[Ryan]

I honestly, it's. This is an issue between Nick and Hannah and you know, in the moment, I did feel sort of pressured just because I felt like I was catching jabs left and right and just like I'm being pressured to respond to this because I was present in the, in the moment. And so, but honestly, you know, that's, that's something between Nick and Hannah. They're. They're both grown ass adults. They need to figure themselves out and what, whatever they have issues they have going on in terms. What was. In terms of what was said and wasn't said. You know, it's. That's between them. I don't hold. I don't have any sort of animosity against Nick or anything, but I don't know at a, at a general principle level, I've, I always have been someone that likes to just hold myself accountable for just whatever that I may, I may say or do, that's. That misses the mark or if I'm ever out of line, like I Have no problem taking responsibility for that. And so that's where that came. That comment came from. At the end of the day, part of it was, yeah, just kind of the pressure of the moment, but that's.

[Nick Viall]

I'll.

[Ryan]

I'll leave it at that.

[Nick Viall]

I get what you're saying. On the accountability part, it's just more felt like this was a clearly a conversation that Nick had what he thought was with friends off camera or off mic. And I get that maybe he technically said something, but, like, we all know, in the context of which it was being delivered, that if Nick were to admit to calling Hannah a grenade or something like that, he potentially could have been eviscerated. And it just really felt like that's what Hannah and Marissa were trying to do, which felt really dirty given, like, their motives and it. To me, and I think for the audience, it was less about whether Nick actually said that and then the manner of, like, you know, what was the intent behind here? Because it's like, we all have the right to feel how we feel about our physical attraction to someone. You know, we have a right not to be physically attracted. The whole point of the show is to look past your physical att. And Nick decided to do the thing that, you know, what we all thought was the noble thing is to, like, just be nice, regardless of how he actually felt, certainly publicly. And if he wanted to have a conversation with friends offline, like, we all are entitled to do that. And then for, you know, for that to be. It seemed like Stephen was the snitch, which was not shocking. It's like, well, I'm getting catching heat. Let's just, like, let's just throw someone under the bus. It just. I don't know, it just. It all came together in a very. What felt dirty way. And I. I get what you were saying. I get where you're coming from in that moment. It's just like, I would have. You know, I didn't agree with your take, but I. I kind of understand why you did what you did in the moment.

[Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. No, for sure.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

I. I can see, obviously, looking back, how that moment it was. Yeah, they were pretty much dogpiling on Nick and. And, you know, everyone was sort of taking jabs at him in the moment. And so, yeah, I can see, you know, when it comes to, like, whatever bro code with. Or people want to sort of bring up. And so I get that perspective, for sure, and I understand why he would be upset with me, but, yeah, there's just so much that we see there's so much that we experience behind the scenes that the audience will never be privy to. And I think sort of a lot of my reasoning came from that. But, yeah, I could see how that can be perceived that way, for sure.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Did you have any nerves going into reunion knowing Marissa's mother would be there?

[Ryan]

Honestly, no.

[Nick Viall]

I.

[Ryan]

Everyone. This thing with Marissa's mother and just like the way she, I guess, sort of spoke to me throughout the. Just this entire experience is something I was already aware of. Just early on. Marissa sort of gave me a lot of insight on just how her mother communicates and how she, you know, she expresses herself. And so, yeah, there weren't any nerves around, around that in terms of me. I think at the end of the day, I just. I'm not going to respond to the insults. I'm not going to respond to the, you know, threats of violence, all of that stuff. I think personally that there is a way that you can communicate very directly and poignantly what it is that you want to say without doing that. But at the end of the day, she's going to say what she wants to say and I'm not going to react to that, but I'll answer, you know, whatever questions that she had for me at that moment in the reunion.

[Nick Viall]

I absolutely liked you the most when you were around Marissa's mom. Because even whether it's like you being here, like, you know, I think, like I said, like, you're a person who. You think and feel how you want. You know, we're. We all make mistakes, but you are at least able to face your criticism head on. And that, that, that does, to me, show something about your character. The last question I have, I think is regarding, like, some of the criticism you've received around your comments around Marissa's service, which, you know, for me, like, I think. I think our government has a lot to be criticized for, which I think Marissa pointed out. It just came from a place where it didn't feel like you had right to judge Marissa in that moment, given, you know, what she did for this country. Do you want to shed any light or context around those comments?

[Ryan]

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so when it comes to politics and stuff like that, I just let the friend groups that I'm around, it's, it's. These are conversations we have, like, all the time and just, you know, just like very, you know, critical. Not just of what happens here in the US you just globally. And in that moment, you know, coming into that conversation, I was honestly just trying to have a Better understanding of sort of where Marissa stood when it came to, like, the military and her service. We had talked a lot about it in the pods, and, you know, she was. I felt, in the pods, was just as critical of just what she experienced. And so this is her lived experience. And I. You can hear me say in the conversations, like, I don't want you to feel shame for what you. Your service. And, you know, the time that you spent in the military. Obviously, this is something that has shaped your life, has shaped the person that you are. And so at the end of the day, you know, we didn't land in the same camps in terms of, you know, our opinions about the military. But in that moment, even when she felt that she. When she said, you know, I feel like I'm being judged, I immediately stopped the conversation. And, like, I held her hands and I told her, like, look, I don't want you to feel like I'm shaming you, trying to make you feel guilty for this. I understand that.

[Nick Viall]

I.

[Ryan]

My opinions are a lot more pointed than maybe most Americans. I know when it comes to the military, it's something that you just don't critique. It's sort of like the golden calf. You don't speak ill of it. You just sort of, you know, thanks. Thank veterans and folks who've been in the military for their service, and you sort of leave it at that. And so I understand why she felt, you know, like she was being judged in that moment, and that wasn't my intent going into it. But at the end of the day, I understand that, you know, what matters is impact versus introduction, intent. And so, yeah, it's a. It's a complicated conversation. We. We're speaking there for probably over an hour, and, you know, there's a lot of layers to it, a lot of nuance when you. When you talk about politics, especially something like the military. So, yeah, I mean, it's. I. I just want to clarify that we were both very critical, although it may have come across as he was just very pro military, and I'm just like, fuck the military. Which is, you know, that's it. I think it's. They made it look like very sort of. Sort of like if we were on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. All right.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Well, all of your castmates said the second we met you, we would like you and to give you a second chance. So we do. And we appreciate all the context you've given.

[Nick Viall]

We really appreciate it. Ramses, I think, yeah, if you're willing to face your critics. Right. Or Wrong. And answer some questions. And especially, you know, it's one of these things that, you know, I don't know why people go on these shows. Those, you know, all different reasons. But, you know, I think we also have to accept the benefits and the consequences. And part of it is we will have people talk about us. You know, sometimes it feels unfairly, but I. I really, really appreciate you. You coming on and answering all our questions in the manner in which you did. And it's been great getting to know you, the actual Ramses, in person. So I really thank you for the opportunity.

[Ryan]

No, I appreciate the opportunity so much. And just having given me an opportunity to speak on. On these topics that I know had people sort of just kind of jaw on the floor. Floor. So thank you.

[Nick Viall]

Thank you.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

All right.

[Nick Viall]

All right. Take care, buddy.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I got. You know, there's the answers that we could have gotten at the reunion, but we didn't.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I mean. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Which actually we just should be. I think we should just be. Unless they're going to hire us, babe. We should. We. We. We actually should be rooting.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No, you're right.

[Nick Viall]

For Nick and Vanessa to keep their.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Jobs, at least put you in the audience.

[Nick Viall]

No, like, we don't need a season.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

One season.

[Nick Viall]

I don't need someone who's better at their jobs. So then, you know, again, unless they're going to hire us, I would just be. I'd rather just like, be the whole time.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Like, I actually have a question. I have a question. Can I ask a question the whole time if I were in the audience? So.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And how did we, like his answers? Not, like, his answers?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah, well, I think, like, for the reunion, he added perspective to it where, like, he said things like, I would be exhausted and overwhelmed. And it's like he gave context into that. That's more than period.

[Nick Viall]

Sex offers a lot of context that he.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Especially the part where he recognized that this is clearly something that she was sensitive about in past relationships. It is a sensitive topic.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

So I could see a world where he brought this up, and then she went to a place of accusing him of doing something that maybe he didn't feel like he was doing. Like, being insensitive about her being on her period. And then obviously knowing how reality TV works, once the accusation is thrown out there, it's very much easy to cut around that other stuff.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

It's a very specific thing to cut out, though.

[Ramses]

Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Like, the editors chose an angle.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

They definitely did. And I think that's their job.

[Nick Viall]

That's their job.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Creative Television.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, because they have to deliver these types of conversations.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

They want everyone to pick sides, so they have to make it.

[Ramses]

I mean, yeah, but sometimes it is a little shocking where it's just, like, the amount of context that was left out of that conversation that, like, instantly painted him as a villain. Come to find out that he, like, volunteered a vasectomy. We'll look into that. Like, it, it just would have given more layers to a person versus just like, you're bad or good.

[Nick Viall]

I am not doubting Ramses and his answers, but I think we also have to recognize that we all give ourselves the benefit of the doubt in terms of how we come across in an argument or a disagreement. And so I, I don't doubt for a second that after listening to Ramses speak that, like, he is aware of how a period affects a woman's body and how she might not want to have sex or just, like, contraception and things like that. That being said, I could see a world in which, like, while he maybe didn't mean it, that he was maybe projecting a type of energy that Marissa received as judgmental or insensitive and where no one's necessarily wrong or right. But I just, I just think it's not as black and white in terms of, like, oh, well, the, the editors are evil, or things like that. I, I think they're just kind of you. It's like their opinion. We got Ramses pov, we got Marissa's pov, and then we have the editor's POV type of thing. And I think the truth's always somewhere in the middle. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just think we. Again, when we're in the heat of the moment, we are very unaware of how we come across. Like, honestly, when Natalie and I go to couples therapy, part of couples therapy is having a therapist, like, looking at our body language when one of us is talking and the other person's listening, and our therapist is making sure that, like, we're receiving it the way they understand that we're giving it. But, like, knowing that it might be a triggering conversation, we shut down, we disconnect and things like that. So I, I, I can see it on all sides.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I wanted to know what the comment was that Nick D. Made, but he was like, it's between them to say what it was.

[Nick Viall]

And I was like, I believe that he said that. I believe he said the grenade comment. I believe he admitted to his boys that he wasn't physically attracted to her when asked. I think that was the.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I Think he said that explicitly or he said something that.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I mean, I think grenade is a very.

[Nick Viall]

It is very specific.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

It is a very specific word to use.

[Nick Viall]

I think they were all having a conversation. Conversation so dated.

[Ramses]

I was like, what is this, Jersey Shore?

[Nick Viall]

I think they were having a conversation. I think they were like, broing it up and they were asking each other each other's questions. I think they were being more honest than they otherwise would on camera, which we all do with our friends. And then that was weaponized against him to. Again, Stephen brought it up because Steven's catching heat. All these people who were throwing Nick under the bus were catching their own heat, and they all wanted Nick to catch the heat because everyone felt like Nick. Because you can clear, like, even Rams has kind of alluded to it. Like, I think everyone's kind of pissed off that Nick was looking like this golden child when clearly Nick has his own flaws. Like, as they all do. Maybe he is a little douchebaggy. Maybe he's like, incompetent as a 28 year old. But that really isn't our point as fans. Our point as fans is like, I don't know, we see his flaws. You don't need us to. You don't need to point it out. But, like, he's not an evil, vindictive guy, and he doesn't deserve to be treated the way Hannah's treating him. And then the fact that after Hannah apologized and then Nick was like, try to defend her. She did all the things that she was accused of doing that she apologized for. And then all these other people are throwing him under the bus because they don't like catching the heat. They think it's unfair. They're just like, well, I might have a kink, but Nick is blah, blah, blah. You know what I'm saying? They want to play the fairness cops. The Cass is just like, deciding who's got it worse than others. And we're going to even the playing field. And that's the part that feels dirty. I don't think any of the fans are watching it thinking, like, are putting Nick D up on this mantle of, like, here's this perfect man. No one's thinking Nick is perfect.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

No.

[Nick Viall]

No one.

[Ramses]

No.

[Nick Viall]

We just don't think Nick deserves to be the scapegoat for all these other people's mistakes.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

And that's why people love him now. It says he's like the martyr.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, yeah. Because everyone tried to scapegoat this guy who, you know, he may have his flaws, but he's not. He's not problematic, actually, Drew, because that's.

[Ramses]

The thing too, is that it's like the whole thing is we have sympathy for Nick, not because he had an outstanding personality. It's because we sat here and watched him get berated the entire show that you're just like, okay at one, at some point. Nobody deserves to be spoken to like this at some point.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I think it's also like there was so much time in which Hannah could have had this conversation with Nick, but she waited until reunion for national television to like deliver this. Like, you were liking comments and you called me this and you called me that and it's like you wanted all the hate that you have been receiving for being direct and for being whatever and whatever to go to him and for him to start getting hate. Like that was what she wanted. And that intent is gross.

[Nick Viall]

And say what you want about Nick, as flawed as he may be, every step of the way, he always took the high road. And I think what everyone is criticizing everyone else for is like, when, when they felt like it could benefit them, they didn't. Everyone else took the low road, everyone else does a dig and Nick always took the high road. And that says something about Nick and his character, you know? All right, Salt Lake City Helix sleep, guys. What more could we say about the greatest mattress ever invented by mankind?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Vanessa Grimaldi]

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[Nick Viall]

Vessie's got a great lineup with all comfortable, all stylish and all waterproof shoes. Be sure to check it out. Step into waterproof comfort with Vessi. Early Black Friday sale. Stay dry in style with select waterproof Vessis now just [e-mail]. don't wait. Grab yours before they are gone. Another electric city of Salt Lake City.

[Ramses]

Another electric Salt Lake City.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

They are electric.

[Emily Baker]

Oh my God.

[Nick Viall]

What did I say?

[Ramses]

You've been waiting for words.

[Nick Viall]

Another electric city Salt Lake. I got so much in my head.

[Ramses]

The electric city of Sutlik.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Let's go real quick too. Did you see Teddy Mellencamp is getting a divorce?

[Nick Viall]

Yes. Oh, and we've hung out with both of them. Her.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

What's her husband's name?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Eddie.

[Nick Viall]

Eddie. Her and Eddie, they, you know, I haven't. I haven't. We haven't hung out with them in a minute, but. Sad. Especially when you know the couple in person.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Do they seem like a happy couple? I guess you never know.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, was, I mean, yeah, they did.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

We weren't like, oh my God, they're getting a divorce. You know, we were coming. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

We didn't leave them be like, oh, they fucking hate each other.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Typical couple.

[Ramses]

One of you just slides over 20 being like, all right. It was before Christmas.

[Emily Baker]

Do you do that when you see couples? Yeah, but not Teddy and Husband.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, yeah.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

They know. It's like the couples who clearly hate each other. And you're like, all right, that was, like, awkward to be around.

[Ramses]

You're at a dinner of, like, eight people, and two of you made it very uncomfortable for everyone else we know. Yeah.

[Emily Baker]

It's like Virginia Woolf.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

It's like you're mad at him because he passed you the water, like, over the bread and not around the bread. And it's like, ma'am. That didn't fit. Like, we needed to this. I loved watching the husbands try to have a meetup but not know what the fuck to do. John is like, all right, how do we. Yeah, how do we start this?

[Emily Baker]

John's like, I think we need production. We need these potato potatoes.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

First do we think the fight was necessary? Was one of the husbands.

[Nick Viall]

First we have to talk about the parallel parking.

[Tyler]

Oh, my God.

[Emily Baker]

That was evil.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No, that was way. Make us, like, guess who's in the. And then John gets out. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

This might be a little misogynist of me and sexist for me to say, but, like, I think less of him as a man.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah. You can't even parallel park anymore. Because of what?

[Nick Viall]

You can keep that in there. You can keep that in there.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Here's the thing. They don't make you parallel park anymore for, like, the driver's test in California.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

They don't.

[Emily Baker]

They don't. That's why he's not in California.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I know how to.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

The only way you have to park.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

In California, in LA specifically, I think.

[Emily Baker]

It'S just very obvious who typically has a driver and who doesn't.

[Ramses]

Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Oh, well. Yeah, there you go.

[Emily Baker]

There you go. That man is not on Justin's thing.

[Ramses]

Now I'm, like, gonna be checking the front of my car all the time because I feel like someone's gonna be backing in.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I will say sometimes in la, I do that. I take a photo of my car. If, like, a car's too close or if they parked over the line, I'm like, just in case.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Wow.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Let's explain together. Just sometimes, in case I. Just in case. I need.

[Bronwyn]

Able to parallel park while is taught.

[Nick Viall]

I could park a train.

[Ramses]

I think I could park a boat.

[Nick Viall]

I could.

[Ramses]

I could parallel park a boat.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

If you're a mother, you can park parallel.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

The fight, period. The fight between all of them. John 100%, like, overstepped. Like, them showing back the footage. I was like, he's like, when you step towards my wife, it's like Lisa.

[Nick Viall]

Was walking away and he was rocking back and forth like a nervous Nelly.

[Emily Baker]

Lisa got in Justin's face, and Justin, like, is messy.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Lisa also said the cycle second time. John. No, John. John, like, not necessary.

[Nick Viall]

Justin was, like, moving, but also, like, not in anyone's.

[Ramses]

He likes offending his wife. Like, you're coming up yelling in the middle of a party, so everybody's looking at you, and you're like, your wife is a fucking liar. How do you. Of course he's going to be like, my wife's not a fucking liar.

[Nick Viall]

That's the most aggressive. He was.

[Ramses]

Of course.

[Emily Baker]

Also the step he took was sassy, not aggressive. I think what he did, he said. He said, don't talk about my wife.

[Nick Viall]

It wasn't even a step. He was literally, like, rocking back and forth.

[Emily Baker]

He was like holding a drink. Yeah, Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I mean, to John's point, if someone's gonna step towards your wife, you're gonna do something, right?

[Tyler]

For sure.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

You're not gonna just stand there and be like, that's nothing. He's just defending his wife.

[Emily Baker]

But when your wife is Lisa Barlow.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

She can defend herself, but it just.

[Nick Viall]

Speaks to how much Lisa is a bully and even with her husband is a bully and, like, lies to her. Like, I mean, her. Yeah, he's just, like, repeating Lisa's narrative of events and, like. And now he looks like an idiot for, like, you know, trying to defend his wife's honor because his wife is accusing Whitney's husb of like, Listen, it's 2024. You shouldn't be accusing men of being physically inappropriate to women if they're not. Like, that's a. That's a. That's a. An egregious accusation to make against someone in today's climate.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

He wasn't accusing, though.

[Ramses]

But even to Whitney's.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

He was just prepared. If that was Lisa was.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Ramses]

But even to Whitney's point is that they've gotten into many of fights, and usually the men are somewhere else talking about God knows what. And the idea that you're bringing somebody's husband in, involved in it, where I'm like, handle it between the two of you. But when you're going up to Justin yelling at him in the middle of a party about his wife and questioning her integrity, of course it's going to be upsetting.

[Nick Viall]

And then the after show, Lisa was like, my husband would never talk to a woman like that is. Again, she's just like. She is disparaging Justin's character as a man and then suggesting that he doesn't know how to handle himself or he's aggressive around women when he was anything but in this situation. And exaggerating a narrative to her benefit because she. Anytime Lisa feels like cornered in a box, she like. I mean, she's vicious. She's like, she attacks. She's on the, you know, she accuses, she makes up stories.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

It is Mary said on the after show. Why does she even need six, seven lawyers? Truly, literally, like, it's cuz she's trying to cover things up.

[Ryan]

And like.

[Ramses]

Yeah, but even the second go around like Justin's like leaned back against a table essentially, like, he is not aggressive at all. Then John comes in and puts his hands on Justin where I'm like, again, what did you think was going to happen? And again, you're also putting this idea that Justin was what, gonna come out and just knock Lisa out. Like, that's not. Yeah, that's not true.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Justin was giving just slightly intoxicated, wobbling back a little bit because he was getting housewife. Housewife.

[Emily Baker]

He's on like, one thing I'll say about Justin, that man is on the call sheet. And I mean that as the highest compliment. He is clocked in. He is pouring out that vita tequila.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Like nobody's calling Jared to the party. Housewife.

[Emily Baker]

He's a housewife.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

He was doing too much.

[Nick Viall]

That's a supportive husband for sure. That is making sure your wife gets recasted, not the dirt.

[Emily Baker]

Literally.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Okay, maybe I was like, the Jared Osman wasn't supporting Whitney was throwing.

[Nick Viall]

Whitney said, hey, I need you to make a call. Justin said, I got you. He did his job.

[Emily Baker]

I like to think that that Justin called or texted Jared Osman on his own accord. He was just like, I think this would be funny.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, I feel like that's how it went. I don't feel like Whitney was involved.

[Emily Baker]

I think just Justin can girl out.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

You know, Justin is a little petty because you're right. When he poured out the alcohol, that.

[Nick Viall]

Was a girl between any of the couples. I'm hanging out with Justin and Whitney for sure.

[Emily Baker]

Like, they can. They can gab, they can queen.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I kind of want to hang out with Mary.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, Mary for sure.

[Ramses]

But like, be prepared to be read.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

And I want to be. I'm begging Mary to read.

[Nick Viall]

She did when she met Natalie, when Natalie was pregnant.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

She read River.

[Nick Viall]

She's like, you're having a boy. Oh.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I was like, it's a girl.

[Emily Baker]

How do you think Mary feels about Margot Robbie oh, she like started the.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

The intern at war. Also, Bronwyn love icon, legend, girl boss. What's with all the shit?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

So now. So now you love her?

[Nick Viall]

Well, I'm watching this show.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

It almost is like Justin Bronwyn. It was more of like a love. Ya. What's with all the shit?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Okay.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

You know, it's like, love you, Justin.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I was.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

What's with all the shit?

[Nick Viall]

Well, bro, obviously she's new to the show. Just like Britney. And so we are. We're kind of. What with six, seven episodes in, we're just kind of like, you know, how do we. We're going back and forth. Anytime someone's new, we want to judge, we want to pick them apart. And literally early on this episode, I was thinking to myself, bro, you know, she's. She seems like a good character person. Yeah, she's got. Her wardrobe is airport costumes. But even like, you know, I wouldn't dress like that. But like, you know, and. But it's just like, man, she seems like a. I can't really find like a real bad character flaw in Broen. And then literally 30s seconds later, it's like shit all over her house.

[Ramses]

Okay. But like, what I will say is I'm sure that house is fucking massive. And I'm like that woman.

[Nick Viall]

You're trying to defend this.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I am not defend this.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Ramses]

When was the last time. Do you think Bronwyn cleans her own house?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

No.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Also, she didn't pick up dog.

[Ramses]

Do you think brought. When was the last time you think Bronwyn.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

She's got.

[Nick Viall]

You're probably right.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

She has 20. What are they.

[Ramses]

Saying?

[Emily Baker]

But what I'm saying, once again, we need to point out all named after House of Cards. House of Cards, the Kevin Spacey Show.

[Nick Viall]

She has four boxers.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

She's not following them around around to see where they go.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

But she is giving Heather a tour. And if she's giving Heather a tour and Heather is noticing them, she could be like, oh my God, Excuse me.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

That could have been a fresh pool. That could have been. We were in the kitchen.

[Nick Viall]

Absolutely not. When you have company. The fact that she had company with cameras coming over and she didn't like think to look says something about how she feels. I will say one of the cameras possibilities.

[Tyler]

I think one of the cameraman shooting.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

It and not telling her is also insane.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, There are one or two possibilities. Either Brown's just filthy and I don't believe that.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

No, she doesn't use.

[Nick Viall]

Or she's just like, I don't pick up dogs.

[Ramses]

I think that's it.

[Nick Viall]

Which is fine. But if you don't. And I'm very much Team Brawin over Heather, which Natalie is not. But if you don't want to be accused of being a gold digger, be willing to pick up.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Okay, that's not the same thing. That's not the same thing.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I know people that don't pick up.

[Emily Baker]

Poop and they're $40,000.

[Nick Viall]

Perception is reality. It just like, it perceives as this, like, I'm just here to be. To shop. Like all we hear. I'm just saying it doesn't. It. It. It gives people a window to criticize. I'm sorry. Pick up the. If. If my.

[Emily Baker]

If.

[Nick Viall]

If I came home now, it doesn't pick up dog poop. I pick up the dog poop outside. It's. It's. It's my job.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

We've decided it's outside.

[Ramses]

But what we're talking.

[Nick Viall]

But if it. Yeah, if the dog shit in the house. Nelly and I walked home and I was like, dog shit. Four hours ago, we would have. I would have a big problem with that for sure.

[Ramses]

But what I'm saying is that, like, Bronwyn is like a level of wealth that matches the old New York housewives. Like, it's like she is aloof. She is somebody who, like, could probably.

[Nick Viall]

But she doesn't come from that. She's not old money.

[Ramses]

It doesn.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Rags to riches. Sonia Morgan, you don't think she picked up dogs in her life now she's like, I don't. I'm too good.

[Ramses]

Once you marry it. Like, I could. I'm sorry. I'm gonna. I'm gonna die on the hill for Bronwyn. I do think I love Bron. I do too. I'm just.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I think they set her up.

[Emily Baker]

I don't think she knew the was there.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

But also, I actually do think that. I do think that this point of view.

[Nick Viall]

Do you think the dog did.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Here's the thing. If you're a producer, Heather.

[Nick Viall]

Heather is a producer pet for sure.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

They had that 4k close up angle on that poop. I was like, one of y'all knew this was coming.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Is there a chance that Brown's watching this episode? Being like. No, no, no, actually, there's definitely a shot. There's definitely a chance.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

There's no way that Heather saw it and Bronwyn did.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

The producers did it.

[Nick Viall]

No, but they could be. Baby, think about it. These scenes take a moment, right? It's not like Heather just shows up like they were All Heather's probably waiting outside talking to producers for a while. They were there for hours.

[Emily Baker]

Producer said, guess what in there, Heather.

[Nick Viall]

And Rowan could have been talking dog shits, like, while they're talking. And they're like, yeah, they could be like, get a camera on this right now. Then they go interview Heather, producer, pet, and be like, just. It's possible. I don't know. I'm not gonna happen, but it's definitely possible. Logistically, it's. I'm just saying it's possible. I'm just telling you what is. I just know how this works. I'm. And I don't know if it happened, but it is possible.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

But also, if Bronwyn does not pick up dog, why was there not another single person in that house? There was not a housekeeper. There was not a maid. The dog, how many times a day? And there's no one else in the house.

[Ramses]

Maybe the house camera.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, I think it was decor. Come on.

[Emily Baker]

You think it's decor?

[Ramses]

That shit was actually $20,000. I think that.

[Bronwyn]

Yeah, I think it was $20,000. And she has it sitting there and it's decorated.

[Ramses]

Only her and Rihanna have. Have this shit.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Rihanna would never.

[Bronwyn]

I will say on a Runway in.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Paris, we didn't train the dog to poop outside, right?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

We don't have, like, the most high. I do give you that highest in trainers in the world to train. Boxers are known to be naughty, naughty dogs. And so the fact that, like, immediately naughty. The fact that she is a puppy boxer and she's not like, I. Sorry. Like, he's in training. Like, there's, you know, she needs the.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Bell on the door where you train the dog to ring the bell when it needs to go out.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

I do love how Broadwin read Heather in terms of. I'm watching this, and it's just like, you know, I said. Obviously, I've said over the, you know, this season, why does Heather always seem to be willing to be someone's number two? So hard. It's like. It just doesn't. It doesn't make sense. I'm trying to figure out what, like, what is Heather's backstory in terms of, like, this, the psychological reason that Heather is the way she is. Because, like, as a person, I want to like Heather so much. She's so, like, articulate. She makes good points. She's clearly very smart, observational. I want to ride for Heather, but I hate how she is always, like, putting herself in a position. Position to be a follower. It's like, she doesn't have the confidence to be a leader. Like, in. In a world of main character syndrome. It's like Heather doesn't know how to be some, like, the main character. And then you hear Robin talking about her high school photo where, like, Heather always wanted to be in Angie.

[Ramses]

Angie.

[Nick Viall]

It was Angie. Yeah, yeah. And she always wanted to be in the in group. And it's just like, yeah, Heather, clearly. It's like Heather grew up idolizing the Regina Georges in high school. She wanted to be in the in group so bad. And, like, that she has piano kids, and that has stuff stuck with her in her adult life. And it's so fascinating, this psychology of Heather.

[Ramses]

And this is why when you would ask me, like, why I don't like Heather, why I don't like Heather, I couldn't properly articulate it without you seeing it. But it's kind of that. It's like. It's like you want so badly to be the shining star under your number one being the number two that it's like everything that you said last season now all of a sudden cancels out because now you're following Lisa instead of.

[Nick Viall]

Jen and then not Heather being called out by Angie for the drop, like, for defending Lisa and then being offended for her friendship with Jen Shaw. And it's like she goes. She goes, well, yeah, I mean, I have a cloudy past of, like, over, like, defending my friends, the church, blah, blah, blah. But this time. This time I'm right. You're right, because you're defending the bully of the group, Lisa Barlow, who, like, makes up stories and lies about people when she gets put in a corner. But, like, this time you're right, Heather, and you have no reason for us to give you the benefit of the doubt. But you're so sure this time.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yep.

[Tyler]

Yep.

[Emily Baker]

Huh.

[Ramses]

She wants Angie to have her back with Bronwyn, but at the same time is, like, shocked that Bronwyn's questioning her because she wants to be hazing her. Because you're the new new girl. These are my friends. And it's like you're all in the same cast.

[Emily Baker]

I think Heather is, like, the perfect example of somebody who is self aware. And because they're self aware, they don't have to change any of their actions.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Heather.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah, because she knows that that's exactly what she does. And she'll say, and that's why her. That's why you're talking heads are always like, great. Because you're like, oh, Heather is completely aware of, like, what her role is. And who she is and the reason she's saying all these things. And then you see her on camera, and it doesn't make any sense because she's aware of it. She just chooses not to do anything about it.

[Ramses]

What did she call herself? She said she's. I'm what binds this group together. And it was just like, Heather, Yeah, it just felt like tearing everybody apart.

[Nick Viall]

And why are you on Heather's side for that fight? Is because she gave a bad apology, which she did.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Well, that. But also, I just, like. I just can see Heather's side of it where she's like. At the end of the conversation, Brian was like, well, you know, I was just trying to plan this party or this. This trip. And, like, you're not gonna. And she's like, so this was an initiation. This was me, like, trying to plead my case to come.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I think, Bro, I will say, if I was in Heather's position, I'm like, so this was a setup. I don't need to be sitting here.

[Nick Viall]

I think it's the opposite projection of Heather. I think. I think Heather. I think Heather is very much like, bro's the new kid. And, like, she has initiating Brin into her show, and she's just kind of mean girling. Of course, like, yes, it wasn't the best apology from Bron, but, like, Heather's out there perpetuating this, like, stereotype about the prenup and her being a gold digger.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

And so, yeah, really, that was Britney.

[Nick Viall]

Either way, they're both. It's some. They're arguing over semantics, and Broadway is kind of like, hey, I'll apologize for being. Doing my part, but, like, apologize for doing yours. And Heather's just like, no.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Mother's like, I'll apologize after you give me an actual apology. She's like, well, I guess I can. Like, at times. Like she said, I know.

[Emily Baker]

I think Bronwyn. I think Bronwyn very correctly owned up. And she was like, you want me to call it messy?

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

It was messy, but that's not genuine. She's like, you're only saying that because that's what you would have.

[Ramses]

Like, if this is what Heather wanted, though, it's like that. The projection of what Heather wanted to see where Bronwyn was like, listen, I'm gonna invite you over. Hopefully we can sit down and have a conversation, take accountability, and then I'll invite you on this trip. And then Heather's like, well.

[Nick Viall]

Does Bron deserve to be in our group or not?

[Emily Baker]

That's what she gave Heather just Wants to have be in a position where she can have power over someone else. And Bronwyn and Britney are like the new people that she is able to be this head mean girl.

[Ramses]

Yes.

[Emily Baker]

Where she can still be Lisa's number two because Lisa would never ever, ever, ever let her have power over her.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I have two thoughts. Okay, I love Bronwyn, but saying I can apologize is not an apology.

[Nick Viall]

No, it was a bad apology.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

She never once said, I apologize or I'm sorry she said, I can apologize for that. Which is not that being said. If you're implying I'm a gold digger, I'm not going to throw you on my private jet that my daddy's paying for and send you to our resort like Godfather.

[Ramses]

Daddy, Daddy, you know.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

No, I'm like, so you can leave, but not.

[Nick Viall]

It's getting harder and harder to walk Britney on the show.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Oh, my God, it really is.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I kind of like her.

[Ramses]

Like, but even then also just. Just to tie a little knot on that with Heather, where I'm like, Heather definitely says that she can say whatever she wants to say to Britney. And Britney's like, well, that hurts my feelings. She goes, yeah, I guess it would. But I'm sorry that it hurt your feelings. Like, again, Heather doesn't have to be genuine when she's talking to Britney because Britney's below her.

[Emily Baker]

Exactly.

[Ramses]

She sees Bronwyn as like fighting against her or competing for. For status where it's like, Bronwyn doesn't have to compete. That's the difference between the two of them.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, after Angie said that about Heather, I understand and see he for who she is. So clearly she can't get out of high school. Like, she's still in high school. And she operates just like a clique in high school operates and she initiates new people into this group.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

From what we can see from the show, we do not know her.

[Ramses]

And if you were a nice girl, then I'm like, seeing somebody who clearly is a little more. Needs a little more kitty gloves with handling. Like, you're not gonna expose her in a way that, you know, is just gonna, like, leave her, like, broken. And this poor Britney woman is fuck broke.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Britney needs to be Heather being like, I've been there. And Brittany's like, well, what happened? She's like, it fucked up my entire life. Like, Britney needs hard love. She needs like, you are going to ruin your life if this is the man you continue chasing. And I don't think Heather needs to apologize.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

The after show kind of gave that Britney was still open to her relationship.

[Emily Baker]

But that's what's crazy.

[Nick Viall]

It's just like, you know, I know it's like, you know, criticizing parenting is a very sensitive topic. But like, let's just keep it fucking real for a second. Like if you can go on and national television show and admit that you have sacrificed your relationship with your three kids for a person who over and over and over again is so clearly clear about how they think about you and treat you and you continue to give that person more of a priority and attention than your own children, it's like that is a choice, you know, and it's, it's hard to defend that choice. And also it's just like what's interesting about Britney's narrative is like she talks as if she's never found love. And I don't doubt that she like clearly she's single now and whatever age that she's at, so clearly she hasn't found the love that's like never failed. That's, you know, which we, all of us only get one of those. But like she has three kids and it's just like. I guess my point is like sometimes we always talk about on the show like your, your life is just a matter of your own perspective and how you look at it. And Britney has this kind of like I've never found like she centers her love above everything in her life, even her own children. Right. And which is kind of crazy. Like Nally's mom is very open. She wants to go in the Bachelorette. Natalie's mom also like has had some tough luck when it comes to relationships in love throughout her life. Like she is currently single. She hasn't found that relationship that has never failed. But like Natalie's mom makes it very clear who comes first in her life and that is her kids and her, you know, and it's like her, her grandkids and things like that. And yeah, she still wants to find love and she still goes out and she still prize. It prioritizes herself at times. But the way Britney does it is, is, you know, it's, it's hard to defend. It's, it's, it's, it, it gives. I'm sorry. Like you can judge someone for their parenting choices. Like you're, you're not a good parent. Just be, you know, like. And I think sometimes, especially the people who have a lot of money, you know, who are very good at like being sometimes self centered and centering their needs above anyone else's and, and sometimes we just like what do we do to win pack affection of our kids or loved ones? We give them they want or we buy them trips and we throw money or gifts at them and things like that. And that's not always good parenting, you know. And again, I'm. I'm just using Britney's words of admitting that she has sacrificed her relationship with her kids for a man, a man who continues to do that. And at some point it is on you, the parent, to have to look in the mirror and question your choices and your relationship with your kids. I don't know how else to look at it. Like, I know that might sound harsh, but fuck.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I do think, like in some conversations we have we've had that Bernie does deserve grace. But like in this, in this instance that you're saying it, I do think she. Some of her values and priorities are in the wrong place because even in the after show she was saying how she goes on like multiple dates in one night and how she has a spreadsheet and like her spreadsheet is like a serious thing she does where she updates it.

[Nick Viall]

It's like, girl, take a break. When I'm just like, maybe take your kids on a trip or maybe just.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Like date and not catalog everything and then like spend some time with your kids in the process.

[Ramses]

You know, she also says that in the aftership. Then she also talks about like romanticizing her parents wedding or marriage. They met for six days, got married, and then were together for like 50 years until the moment.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

So she wants that kind of love herself.

[Ramses]

But I'm like, your somebody else's love story does not is not yours.

[Nick Viall]

Well, Britney cares way too much about the appearance of things and the story.

[Emily Baker]

What's Mormonism?

[Nick Viall]

Maybe so. Yeah. I mean, for sure. Yeah. But like when she was singing.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And she was playing the conductor.

[Emily Baker]

Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Like, look, she used to be like a singer. Have you seen this?

[Nick Viall]

I don't doubt that she was.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

She's posting like videos. She's. She was on Broadway, she was on stages.

[Nick Viall]

She doesn't need to be conducting a group of friends singing a song.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

But she's the one hosting the family.

[Nick Viall]

I'm just saying it gives. It just gives. Appearances matter in that moment.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah. I wish we knew more about Britney's background.

[Emily Baker]

I know. I want to know more about Britney, not about Jared. I just don't care.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I feel like we're getting siloed into this storyline that there's probably more of her to offer.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Ramses]

But just side note, she needs to offer it. I just loved when Angie Brought the bottle of wine.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I see her drinking all the time.

[Ramses]

I didn't know that this was not the occasion.

[Emily Baker]

Angie got to know the woman that you are.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Babe, you lit. You. You're constantly chugging.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

She's also grape, not Mormon, so.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, well, Britney and Jen, very similar. Jen from OC Yeah.

[Emily Baker]

They do remind me of each other and.

[Nick Viall]

Which I also forgot. And we'll get into it with Emily. She's coming up next. I forgot. I would just like Salt Lake City, where I'm watching this episode. In the middle of this episode of Salt Lake City, I'm like, I can't find a fly on Broadway and then shit over the floor. Like, Jen, I'm watching it. We've been highly critical of Ryan. And, you know, it's just like, he. He seems very shady, and I'm halfway through, I'm. I'm thinking to myself, you know what? Fuck it, man. If Jen's happy, let her be happy kind of thing. But I kind of forgot the backstory of Jen and Ryan, how she, like, blew up her entire family and left her marriage and her kids for this guy who had a reputation of sleeping with married women. And then the finale of OC Ends with the arrest.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I met someone this weekend, and he looked like Ryan, and I was like, like, what are you hiding?

[Nick Viall]

I. I just, like, yeah, it's just, like, it's. It's. You're. You're making choices in adult life.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

They want to welcome love, but they're, like, choosing the wrong love.

[Nick Viall]

Well, you know, we all, like, yeah, we all want love. But again, like, sometimes when you get so obsessed with how things aren't working out for you, you alienate some of the people that you should be protecting and closest to you. And it's just like, the one thing.

[Ramses]

I'll say about that is that it's ignoring red flags, even with Jared and Britney. But also, if you don't know what your significant other does for a living or how they attain their wealth, sunshine.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Is not a good enough answer.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I was about to say the fact that that has never been a question to Jen of, like, Ryan's like, oh, I've been in mortgages. What was he. He was on Watch what Happens Live. And Andy Cohen is like, well, Ryan, what do you do? And he's like, I've been in real estate, mortgages, whatever, for the last 20 years, or whatever the fuck he said. Why wasn't Andy then, Like, then why didn't you say that whenever they were at you at.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

They asked something inside of her might have known or.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah, it's like, instead you were like, he likes to play in the sunshine. You could have been like, oh, he's in real estate. Mortgage brokerage.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Everybody's in real estate.

[Ramses]

Or he's retired. Like, just like some, like. I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

I think with like, Jen and Brittany, again, we've all been them, but we were 21, you know, and then we. Or 25 or 20, you know, or at some point we learned, at some point in life, even if we had made the same mistake over and over a few times, we learned. And here you have Britney and jen in their 50s, making these mistakes that are like, again, don't just affect them, affect so many people around them, but.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

To a degree that's like, bound to happen. Because they're kind of like an example of the times. Right?

[Nick Viall]

What do you mean?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Of like, women that were kind of raised to just be kind of subservient and like, protect the family regardless of their own needs. So they put that before themselves. And then now they're in a relationship where. Or they're not in a relationship that they chose themselves and they don't know how to.

[Nick Viall]

It's hard for me to look at Jen and Britney and think these are two women who always put others before them and now they're not. I just don't see that.

[Emily Baker]

I feel like it's more the. They were raised with the idea that they had to put others before them and it's just a reactionary selfishness because of the way they were raised. More than that, you know what I mean?

[Ramses]

I'm like, others before or like, prioritizing marriage in a man because he's going to take care of everything.

[Tyler]

That's.

[Emily Baker]

I think that's more of what it is. And then it's like, oh, well, I have to prioritize finding my man.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Exactly.

[Nick Viall]

I just think if you were raised to always prioritize others before you, specifically, when it comes comes to Britney, you don't openly admit how you lost your relationship with your own kids.

[Ramses]

Don't Mormons believe that you can't. Like, women won't go to heaven if they're not married. Like, it's like there's like weird things that go. That are tied along with their religion too, to where.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

It's like, that's been implied on Salt Lake City.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Yeah.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

But again, like, Britney, how Mormon are you? You drink, you're not. You don't drink. I mean, again, I get it, but at some point you can't Blame your religion or your parents or your upbringing. At some point you have to just like look in the mirror and say, what kind of person do I want to be? And you can use excuses of how you were raised or religion you were brought up in, or you can just like, you know again because Brittany Clinic knows better. You know what I'm saying? If you can admit to have lost touch with your kids over a man, then you know better.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

That part is hard to comment on though because you don't know enough about our kids. Like, what does that mean, lost touch?

[Ramses]

It's always great seeing somebody's first season on one of these shows and then seeing them come back for the second season because a lot of them are not self aware. So when, when they finally watch like how they, how the things that they've said and like the things that they're willing to die on, they come back second season being like, actually, okay, I'm.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I'm ready to speak.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Emily Baker]

I feel like Britney is going to come back next season.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I hope they bring her back.

[Emily Baker]

I do too. And I think she's going to come back next season with a very different outlook for sure.

[Nick Viall]

I mean she would be easier root for if she like starts making healthier choices. Because you want to see like again, Jen, you want to root for, you know, but when you are reminded of their choices, it is, it's, I don't know, for me it's tough to get behind. Let's bring in Emily who's going to walk us through some of these legal things going on with Ryan.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Hey, Emily.

[Ramses]

Hey team.

[Tyler]

Good to see you.

[Nick Viall]

How's it going?

[Tyler]

It's good. It's busy but it's good.

[Nick Viall]

Well, we were watching the finale of OC last night and obviously they picked up the cameras back up because Ryan's friend got arrested and it was this whole thing and I'm like, I need to call Emily. We need to get her on the show because obviously there's just a lot of speculation going on with Ryan, his friend here. There was this hot mic moment of him joking, not so joking about having a money launderer. Which I thought to myself, is that like, did he just admit to a crime right there? Because isn't just, isn't that illegal like laundering in general? I don't know. I had a lot of questions so I was like, we gotta get our legal expert Emily Baker on the show to get her insight. How you doing, Emily?

[Tyler]

I'm good. Happy to be here. I feel it. I saw your text and I'm like, I love you guys record on Mondays, because Mondays is literally my most available day of the week. So I was like, this is perfect. I want to talk about OC too. I. You know how much I love reality tv. And I went through all the court documents because of course I'm curious and it's all in court documents. And I also grew up in la, so also a Dodgers fan. And with all of this inter winding into the show hay scandal, I was just like, oh, I want to look.

[Nick Viall]

At all of it. Well, we love that you did that and we appreciate it. So what did you find?

[Tyler]

Well, as we were going through court documents, it's clear that Ryan's friend knew that this was coming down the pike because of the what was going on with the interpreter. And they both would have known that the feds were closing in because the information came down and there was a plea deal on file that was signed before the information was filed. So this would have gone down with the feds being like, hey, we would like to talk to you, and him being like, hey, I would like to tell you everything. Please give me a plea. So it looks like that plea was negotiated before the information even came out, and that was signed in the. In late May so that he knew he was taking a plea deal before anyone even knew that he was wrapped into part of this. So I imagine, I don't know when that final episode aired. I don't know when they were recording, oh, see, you guys probably do better than I do. But as of May, the friend knew he was taking a plea deal and knew that this was going to become public at some point because they're filed publicly. And his name was going to be connected to the interpreter for the Dodger who had been gambling. Not the Dodger, the interpreter. The interpreter was arrested. The interpreter pled guilty as well. Will be sentenced in December. The Ryan's friend Matthew will be sentenced in February. But he also has to pay back over a million dollars in taxes. There's restitution. He's facing prison time, but it's a first offense and he pled guilty to bookmaking, which being a bookie, which you can't do, to money laundering and to tax fraud, but in the bookkeeping, he also said that there were at least five people operating this business with him. And it looked like they were operating out of one and maybe more casinos where they were bringing casino hosts in to help them funnel clients, that they were. The people involved in the business were gambling regularly at these casinos to drum up Business. They were regularly in Vegas. And the money laundering count is about moving money from the bookkeeping business in O.C. into casinos in Nevada. So when the ladies on O.C. are talking about the fact that Ryan's always flying private jets out to Vegas, I'm like, well, this guilty plea talks about what he was doing in Vegas, which was sports booking and drumming up clients. But you can't sportsbook in California. It's illegal. That's why the Feds went after this. But it seemed that the Feds were keying in on what the casinos were doing and then followed kind of the trails out from what was stemming in the casino and then following out the investigation from there.

[Nick Viall]

Is it possible that Ryan could be guilty of being linked to his friend and being involved in his friend's nefarious activities, and then, like, the Feds is deciding he's not big of enough of a fish to, like, involve or if he's guilty, they would definitely follow through with. With charges. Like, what. What assumptions can we make?

[Tyler]

So he got an immunity deal. They talked about it on the show. They've talked about it in numerous news articles. Yes.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

They also filmed the finale in April for context.

[Tyler]

Okay, so this all went down before that plea deal. Thank you. This all went down before that plea deal was sign as these conversations are happening. I worked at the U.S. attorney's office before I graduated from law school. Nothing moves quickly. When they say law and government move slow, Nothing moves quickly. But they would go out and have all these conversations with individuals, including Ryan, to figure out if he's going to be a target or a witness or both. You don't give an immunity deal if somebody doesn't know anything. And if somebody is a witness, they don't need immunity because they weren't involved. You get immunity so that you don't get prosecuted when you tell people what you know. And what you know also involves your illegal activity. If you see a car accident on the street and you stop and go, hey, this person didn't stop at the red light. Nobody needs to give you immunity. You saw what you saw. So the fact that he has an immunity deal for this indicates that he was involved enough that his lawyers said, if we tell you what we know, you could prosecute us for it. And we're not not going to do that. How much he was involved is unknown. But we know that people were helping get clients at the casinos. We know that people were moving money in and out of the bank accounts they were using. We know that they've been friends Ryan and Matthew for over 20 years. We know that Ryan helped Bill Matthew out of a 2011 bankruptcy. They are not unfamiliar with each other's business dealings. Based on court records, is Ryan named in any of these courts? Court records? No. Are other individuals stated as other individuals? Yes. The only one we know that has an immunity deal is Ryan because of the TV show.

[Nick Viall]

But like, him having, like you said, but him having an immunity deal means that, like, he's guilty of something. Right.

[Tyler]

He knows enough shit that he could be prosecuted. So there's enough there that he could be prosecuted for it. And that's more than nothing. I hate to be all lawyerly about it. He knows more than he's letting on. I mean, they took hundreds of thousands of dollars out of his buddy's house when they raided the house. And poker chips, and those have all been now forfeited to the government. There were multiple bank accounts that were in the names of other individuals. Was this stuff moving through Ryan's bank account? That's not what court records say. Do we know that Ryan was going to the casinos with him on the regular while he is running a bookie business out of California where it's illegal? Yeah, we know that he was doing that. And he doesn't seem to shy away from it and then was making light of all of it. Who knows if that immunity deal or conversation happened before he's making a joke about all of this or not.

[Nick Viall]

So much of, obviously our commentary around the show is around specifically with the situation with Jen is. It's like, what does she know or not know? Not. I don't think anyone thinks that she's involved, but it's more like, how in denial has Jen been about her partner? And I'm curious, in your, you know, extensive experience, I'm assuming you've dealt with a lot of spouses, some of which may have been connected with their criminal partner, and some who are just kind of like just completely in the blind and had no idea. But just as a fan and as someone who has an expert opinion on this type of topic, like, how do you read this situation with Jen and does it remind you of situations you've seen in the past in your career?

[Tyler]

I mean, just to go to reality tv, I'm going to give Jen kind of the same evaluation that I give, like Erica Girardi. How much do they know about what the person who's bringing in the bulk of the money is doing? And how much is willful ignorance, like, the bills are paid? I don't. I don't care. He doesn't seem to go to an office, but, you know, maybe money's fake on the Internet, so who knows? I know my spouse knows how much I work because he sees how often I'm in my studio working. But how much is it normalized for women to be like, oh, I don't know where the money comes from, all my credit card bills are paid. It's fine? And so is there a willful ignorance there? Possibly. And do I think Jen knew exactly what he was doing or how illegal it was? I would hate to think someone would put their kids in jeopardy like that and put themselves in financial jeopardy like that. But there's a real possibility there that if the feds didn't want to give him immunity, they could have prosecuted him the same way and be like, hey, this is what's going on. Also, that immunity doesn't seem to extend. It seems to be immunity for these behaviors, the bookie behaviors, or any money moving. That's not going to extend to tax liability. And once you're on the radar of the federal government, the IRS isn't far behind going, oh, you were connected to these people who are already committing tax fraud. Let's look at all of your taxes, too. So he might not be out of the woods all the way yet. And that can impact her stability in future as well.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

I mean, it was a bad episode for Jen to be like, he tells me everything, I tell him everything. Everything. It's like, well, if he tells you.

[Nick Viall]

Everything, that was a giant fucking engagement ring.

[Tyler]

Massive. But is it. I mean, again, the Internet can be fake. Is that, you know, there are lots of. There are lots of options to buy massive rings on a. On Amazon. So not saying that hers is or isn't, but it's not a great look if the. If there's a worry about potential tax implications. And I can't imagine in any plea deal, his lawyer wouldn't have asked, is the IRS looking into him and his businesses and where this money's coming from? Because it was so obvious in. In his friend Matthew Boyer's case. So I imagine we'll see more.

[Nick Viall]

I'm always so shocked by people's. I don't know, their kind of. Their brazenness. But I'm curious what the hubris. Yeah, the hubris, right. Because here is this guy Ryan, who really looks like what we're seeing is surrounding himself with shady people, people maybe does some shady things on his own, but, like, doesn't make much sense to go on to. To. To marry a Housewife and be so public about your life in a way, and show your wealth and show your opulence. If it is earned in a shady way that might put a spotlight from the government. What is your re. Is this because, like, criminals just kind of are cocky in that way? Like, I'm just kind of shocked that, you know, for people trying to hide something would. Would do a better, better job of hiding things.

[Tyler]

So there was a judge that I worked for who had a plaque on his desk that said, we don't catch the smart ones. He had been a former ausa. And there is a level of arrogance bordering into probably DSM diagnoses that is very prevalent with fraud defendants because they think they are smarter than everyone and that what they're doing is just something nobody else understands. Like, it's just business. Business. Nobody else gets it. Ask Jen Shaw. She knew the feds were coming for her. She knew her co defendants had been arrested all before she started filming Real Housewives of Salt Lake City and was still on the show with the big fake rented house and all the assistance and the money and the closet full of everything and screenshots of that got used in her federal criminal prosecution. We've seen this time and time again. But to be on reality tv, there has to be a level of it's all going to be fine.

[Nick Viall]

Right?

[Tyler]

Otherwise, who would. I could never. Like, I could never. I'm also very boring, but I could never sign myself up for the Internet. Digging into my life in the way that it happens to reality stars and say, this seems like fun to me, but there is a level of hubris there that I think goes hand in hand with being on reality tv. We saw it starting with Teresa Judice and her husband. You know, they were paying cash with everything. It raised some red flags. And nosy people working in government offices went, I wonder what's going on there? And then uncovered mortgage fraud and tax fraud. And once their eyes are on you, there's a lot of options the Feds have. And taxes tends to be a pretty easy way to go. So I'm not surprised by it, but. But still surprised by it.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

He can't have been confused that bookmaking was illegal and that this is his closest friend who he at least traveling with. And if he thinks that people aren't going to uncover that on the show, not just members of the show, but the audience when it starts airing, I think that, that at this point in time is just incredibly arrogant. Maybe early days reality tv, that's not the expectation. But that ship has sailed. We know that that's happening now because we've seen it happen on franchise after franchise again and again and again. You have to expect that that's happening.

[Nick Viall]

For him to joke about having a money launderer, you know, is like on camera, like the. The hubris that requires. And you made a good point, Emily. It's just like the. The Internet is so noisy that as a public figure, they will look into things and make things up that are completely false, let along. Like if you're actually doing something and then you're flaunting your life for people to, like, ask questions is crazy behavior. It is wild. Wild.

[Tyler]

It's wild to me. And when you look at even like Kyle Richards having her house broken into when she was traveling, if you go back into the days of like the Bling Ring that was prosecuted by the LA County District Attorney's office, if you look back to that, just flaunting what's in your home and where you might live and when you're traveling is a bad enough idea. I had celebrity victims who had been robbed by assistants when they were traveling for things who had had people break into their homes and steal things while they were traveling. This is not uncommon. So to flaunt that level of wealth on the Internet, knowing that these things happen because we. I don't think you don't. I mean, I don't think anyone doesn't know that's really dialed into reality tv.

[Nick Viall]

That.

[Tyler]

That's also a problem. You put yourself at risk and you put your family at risk. I'm not going to hate on reality stars renting a house to show on a show so that where they actually live is never on television. I don't think that a terrible idea at all. I think it's a safety thing. But showing everything you own in your closet is maybe opening you up for those who would do illegal things to harm. So we saw it with Tarit. I mean, how we saw it with Kim Kardashian in France. Like over and over and over again. We've seen people robbed for stuff like this.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Wow.

[Tyler]

It's not great.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Was Ryan involved with the interpreter and the $16 million of the Dodger player, Was he involved in that or no? Do we know?

[Tyler]

The court documents are silent, but we know that the interpreter was using a middleman to pass money along to Matthew. And that person is called Individual 1. We have seen news outlets connect the two and say that that was in fact Ryan, but we have not seen him listed in court documents. And we probably won't because he has immunity. But we have seen ESPN and others make that connection and say that that was in fact him that was making that middleman connection. And then we've seen others on the show talking about the fact that Jen was perhaps bragging about the fact that they were connected to that Dodger player. But what do you guys think about Tamara bringing this all up early on in the season and Eddie being like, shh, shh.

[Nick Viall]

Well, Ryan is. He has either threatened or is actually suing Tamra. And I know anyone can sue anyone for anything, so to speak. But I guess, can I throw that back to you, Emily? It's just like, if Ryan clearly is involved, has an immunity deal, like, I know he can sue, I guess Tamara for saying anything but isn't. What is Tamara saying that is wrong? I'm curious is like, how do you see it in terms of, you know, Tamara is wrong about a lot of things this season, but when it comes to Ryan, she actually, actually seems to be right. And I, I'm curious, like, what is her liability in this lawsuit if. If. If Ryan follows through with it?

[Tyler]

So I haven't seen him file anything. I also wonder if the threat of a defamation suit is enough to reign Tamara in, because we did see her issue an apology and she was sued by Jim Bolino in the past. We learned more this season how much that cost them. The threat of lawsuit might be enough for her to be like, that was incredibly expensive. Even if I'm right, it's not worth the money to prove that I'm right, which can be so difficult with defamation suits, though California does have a very strong anti slap and then he could end up paying her attorney's fees. I wonder if when that was going on, what he was thinking, that it would never come out that he had immunity. Like, how do we get from him threatening her after she's on watch what happens live to him at least disclosing that he has immunity so that it ends up in the final episode as they're talking about what's going on with everyone as they wrap up the show. It. Does he think this isn't going to come out? Because it's all out now and it was all out then.

[Nick Viall]

I promise you he had no idea about that hot mic money launderer comment. Like, I guarantee you, Jen and Ryan learned about that comment when we all did because they certainly didn't remind him of it. You know, they were saving that. They didn't give him the heads up for sure. And I'm really curious about the conversations he, him and Jen are having behind closed doors today or. Or this week. It. I will say it does make me think a little bit less of Jen, who, like, again, just Tamara's annoyed us all this season. We. We've spoken about it, her behavior as a housewife, but she is operating in the context of her job like she is. She may be messy, you know, we can debate that, but she is doing her job. For Ryan to threaten a suit and for Jen to back her man the way she did publicly, knowing that Ryan might be very guilty for all these things, it feels wrong and dirty. You know, it's one thing to be messy on a reality TV show where you're hired to be messy, but for Jen to, again, just blindly support this guy because she's so afraid to admit that she made a terrible decision to blow her life up for her own, like, Love Story.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

She said that this episode, she was like, I fucked everything up.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. But now. But then, now she's like, she seems to be backtracking because they announced that there she's following through with the wedding again a few weeks ago. She's been very much like, having her man's back, having Ryan's back going, you know, basically saying, tamara, you're gonna pay for this kind of thing.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Like, I think Gina said it properly. You're putting yourself in the line of fire if you choose to marry this man.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Also, like, on Watch what Happens live, Andy asking, like, is there a prenup? And him being like, no, like, everything. And it's like, because allegedly all of your money isn't even yours, so, like, of course you're not gonna, like, keep it from her.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I just wonder if that Laura of another season, it's like, do we get another season if we're. If we're with him, does that pull that storyline through? I wonder if this is a. You know what? We're gonna ride through the storyline, whether this is the best life choice, is this the best choice for content or for the show? And are these decisions now being made for the show? But someone has to talk to her about what the potential tax liability looks like and remind her of how this went for Eric Girardi, who thought life was going to go one way and is now very much like, I don't. I don't know what life looks like. And we've seen how messy that's been for her. Not only does she probably have at least a million, if not more, in legal fees, but this is never going to end. For her because her husband's bankruptcy is hers because they are married. So when Tom Girardi's bankruptcy eventually ends, anything that's not paid off or discharged is going to go to Air Erica to cover. So she's been, you know, separated for over four years, but those bills are still hers, though. The tax liability Ryan incurs before they get married is one thing. You've now got somebody who has a target on their back from the federal government, and they're going to look into everything that you do for a while going forward because it's easier than finding new cases.

[Nick Viall]

So wait, I was just thinking about that. So the fact that Jen is not married to Ryan makes it even more crazy that she's thinking about marrying this man. Because once she marries him, the ir. IRS does not care about you not knowing or playing ignorant, right? Like, they. You're. You're still guilty.

[Tyler]

If the documents are signed there, there's little you can do to get away from the financial responsibility on it. You might not get criminally prosecuted, but the money will still be owed. And even if you get divorced after that, the money will still be owed. Where I think there's room for her to have independent counsel. Have a very real and honorable, honest conversation with her. I'm sure she has not done this, but have a very real and honest conversation with her about what that looks like if you get married, what it looks like if you have a prenup, what it looks like if you don't, and maybe a long engagement and see how the season goes and see what the IRS does is a better. A better option. But also, do they want to capitalize on that for when cameras go up.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

In 2025, keep it a promise ring?

[Nick Viall]

Couldn't the government or whoever, irs, whoever might be going after Ryan and then potentially Jen. Let's say Jen moves forward with this marriage, right? And she's just love blinders on. She just. She just wants to ride for her man. The fact that we're discussing Ryan's involvement so much, doesn't that make Jen look like she must have known something? Couldn't they use that against her of just like. Because it's one thing to, like, go about your life and no one's asking you questions and you never thought to ask the questions. You're just like, I don't know, like, we just had money and I just trusted that my partner was being honest. But, like, this is coming up so much. And then for Jen to then marry the guy, she looks a lot more complicit Than, say, someone who just, you know, no one's ever asked them a question. They never thought about it. Like it, it is hard to look at this situation, especially if Jen moves forward with this wedding, to think that she knew nothing was going on. Right?

[Tyler]

I mean, well, she knows now how much she knows. Knows is always up for debate. Only she, well, even she might not know. Only Ryan really knows how much Jen actually knows. But it definitely raises questions. Going forward, though, she's not going to be held responsible for things going backward. I also wonder if she's fully aware of what that immunity means. And by way of example, as Nevada's going forward with the state level prosecution for the murder of Tupac by ke, he had federal immunity for things and wrote a book, I think, and this is my speculation that he thought that federal immunity covered everything. And so when he wrote the book, talking about all the things he was involved in, he was like, but we're good, good, because the Fed said I was fine. And then the state of Nevada came in and went, well, we can prosecute murder too.

[Nick Viall]

Boo.

[Tyler]

So here we go. There are still state level prosecutions that can happen, which also confuses that we have federal level prosecutions and then state level prosecutions. And sometimes you can have prosecutions or the same behavior at the state level versus the federal level, depending on what you're doing. And California, I don't need to tell anyone that lives there, is a state that's going to get its money. So you can have issues with the Federal Tax Board and the IRS and then the Franchise Tax Board with California at the minimum. And those can just be penalties and late taxes. There can be criminal responsibility for that too, though it's not as common on the state level, but it happens. And then you can have state prosecutions for bookkeeping, for money laundering and what have you. So they're not all the way out of the woods. And if she thinks that they are, she needs her own counsel to walk her through all of the worst case scenarios. That's what lawyers do. We're really good at catastrophizing stuff. Great, great career path for anyone with anxiety that catastrophizes anyway. It's like your job to think of the worst case scenario about everything. So she needs a voice that's just for her. Not someone who also works with Ryan, but someone who can talk to her about what her potential ins and outs are on this so she can make a real decision about if it's worth it for the show. I don't know how much she's getting paid for the show, is it going to be worth it down the road? And then if she loops that money in with his money and he has tax issues down the road or continues to, that has real implications for her. If he needs to file bankruptcy, that has real implications for her. If they're married less, if they're not married.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

That's why I wonder if we watch the reunion, like, if she's going to be coached, because this is like a four or three month, like, difference, maybe more so it's like, has she gotten that advice? Like, will she talk about the situation differently?

[Nick Viall]

Well, that's a good point, because when I said they probably learned about the hot mic moment with Ryan this week, and that's probably not true. She learned about it probably before she filmed the reunion because obviously, I'm sure they were all picked up.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Cameras.

[Nick Viall]

They picked up cameras, but they were probably shown, I'm assuming, most of the finale before they filmed the reunion.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I would think so, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

So I'm guessing they would address that. But, yeah, it will be really interesting what is discussed at the wedding. It's also interesting whether the show would give Jen good advice or. Or not, depending on what they wanted their character to get them. Vault.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Well, to Emily's point, people want her back.

[Tyler]

The show's gonna give her good advice. No show wants the show.

[Nick Viall]

No, I know, but it's like, you would think someone would be like, hey, talk to a lawyer on your own.

[Tyler]

You know, like, then Bravo gets looped in. If they're like, you need to go get counsel and they get involved, they can get looped. From production standpoint, production's like, girl, you got to do what you want to do, but maybe talk for somebody. But isn't production's job to get the messy moments out and to let the mess continue? Isn't. Isn't that the goal?

[Nick Viall]

No, they're. They're. Her job is to just be there and film.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Make a TV show.

[Nick Viall]

And be the lubricant between scenes going.

[Ramses]

Back to Tamara and Ryan and the lawsuit, or lack thereof. Ryan had responded online saying that he hired the same attorney that Jim Bellino hired to sue Tamara previously and Shannon, but he said she was served yesterday. So what's the difference between filing and somebody being served?

[Tyler]

If she was served, they would have had to file it. Unless they are talking about a cease and desist.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

It was a cease and desist.

[Tyler]

So if they are talking about a cease and desist, no lawsuit needs to be filed. The letter goes out going, hey, knock it off or we will sue you versus a suit being actually filed.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

A warning. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, so like a cease and assist is just like a legal warning.

[Tyler]

Yes, it's a shot across the bow. Knock it off or we will do this. And it doesn't necessarily mean a lawsuit will come. And if a cease and desist goes out and then there's an apology, normally that's the end of it. In civil, both sides generally don't want to pay what it's going to cost to do these things. However, if it's a lawyer that's already like, look, I know how this woman operates. I know who her lawyers are. Like, let's ride. I've already done this once. The person who wins in all of these civil lawsuits are always the attorneys. So if they're going to get paid by Ryan, they'll send all the letters you want them to send and they'll be like, sure. I mean, we might lose. But we also know that it cost her hundreds of thousands of of dollars last time though, with the anti slap in California, which is generally used around free speech and statements made and defamation defenses. If you lose in those early stage motions, the side that filed the lawsuit pays all the legal fees for the side that won those. And we've seen content creators use those to great success. So if Tamara is correct in what she said, and I don't have the exact words to like lawyer part exactly what she said, but if she said the FBI was looking into all of this, is he going to come in and say, actually it was Department of Homeland Security that was looking into all of this and have a jury ever be like, okay, same, same, like really? So I don't know. He has immunity, so the feds obviously had a conversation with him and his lawyer said to media outlets that he was working with the feds on, on the case. So I don't think she's 100% wrong without again having her exact words in front of me. And then she apologized pretty quickly.

[Ramses]

She did.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Jumping quickly away from oc why has P. Diddy been silenced? Why am I hearing nothing about this case anymore? Why is nothing coming out anymore? What's going on? Or am I just not looking in the right place?

[Tyler]

Honestly, with the news, it's the news cycle. I, I've still been covering it, but it's the news cycle leading up to the election is that the attention is elsewhere. And I think there's so much anxiety about the election that the news is leaning into that maybe not in the healthiest way. But there's quite a lot going on in both the civil lawsuits and the criminal lawsuits with Diddy trying to make sure all of the victims are named in every single lawsuit. All of those busby civil lawsuits, not all of them, but a lot of them have different judges. One judge has already said, look, if the plaintiff isn't named, named, we're not moving forward. Some of the judges have said, we will take this matter up once Diddy has been sued and the companies have been sued. So there's a lot of movement. But the news cycle has been very full of other things. And I think that's why you're not hearing about it as much as you were. I think we'll hear about it more. There will be lots of catching up to do. But there hasn't been any new court hearings. Diddy has filed an appeal with regard to him being denied bail. That still pending. So we're waiting for things. But his lawyers have been actively filing for more particulars from the federal government. And we learned last week. Have you guys heard about this? The grand jury is still ongoing.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So the grand jury is still ongoing, according to a lawyer for a witness who was called to testify before the grand jury. Still looking into more indictments against Diddy. So the grand jury is still investigating. So we are a long way from done. And there will likely be more indictments because the grand jury is still ongoing.

[Nick Viall]

I just shocked that other SL celebrity names having. There's always speculation, but that just seems like wild Internet speculation. But it's clear that Diddy has been involved with other celebrities. We've seen a ton of photos being leaked about some of these parties.

[Ramses]

The new witness that testified for the grand jury claims to have eight tapes off 11 drives that was supposedly given to him by somebody close to Kim Porter. So he was forced to name names and confirmed some of the speculation that has been out there.

[Nick Viall]

I want to see these other names.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Didn't they just come out with an athlet? It was like an athlete stopped Diddy from doing something to a young boy.

[Tyler]

There have been numerous stories I don't think we've seen. We've seen broad descriptions, but not names. But, yes, the stories are starting to bubble up. And I think anyone who saw anything is probably calling whatever lawyer they know saying, what? What do I need to do here? Am I going to get called in front of a grand jury? Especially. Especially people who were at those white parties. And then in all those civil suits we're seeing come out. The civil suits all have like specific incidences and after certain events like this one after the VMAs and this one after the BET Awards. So I think people who are at those parties are probably also reaching out to their own council to figure out what they need to do or not do. And I imagine down the road we will see some of these names bubbling up. I imagine for the civil attorney, he would rather those individuals reach out and be like, keep my name out of this, whatever it takes, and resolve those things to the side. And on the criminal case, the US Attorneys do not want a full sideshow of celebrities who may be really good witnesses for them. So they don't want their names out in the media because they don't want them to get cold feet. So we might see this through witnesses, but we might not see that through witnesses yet. And right now the Internet, Internet of forces like, well, who spent the most time around him and what did they see? Jlo.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, there's these JLO photos are One more question. Different case. The Menendez brothers. Do you think they will get out of prison? I know the LA District attorney mentioned that he like favored a resentencing. What does that all mean? Is, and is, is it going to come down to the court of public opinion when it's all said and done in terms of the motivation of the judge or the DA of, of granting a resentencing or things like that, just going to basically go on what they think public sentiment is leaning more in favor of.

[Tyler]

I don't think the judge is going to go off public sentiment. I think the sentiment of the victim's families should be incredibly impactful to the court. There are mixed sentiments, strongly mixed sentiments among the LA County District Attorney's office. And there will be, when this goes to hearing, there will be district attorneys from the office who opposed a resentencing and then the District attorney. This will be post election, so we'll see if he's the District attorney or not anymore. But he is very much in favor of the resentencing. To do that, they have to remove the special circumstances. So when the Menendez brothers were convicted after their second trial, there were special circumstances on that case. Those special circumstances mean that they were eligible for only life without parole because the office didn't choose to seek the death penalty largely, I imagine, given their age, though I don't quite remember if that's exactly why they chose that. But the special circumstances made them not eligible for parole ever. The court would have to remove those special circumstances that the jury determined and found to then resentence them to 50 to life, to then take advantage of the youthful offenders to make them eligible for parole. So that's what the DA currently is advocating for. Others in the office are not on board with that plan. The jury found the special circumstances, this evidence they are saying was known. But then there's also a bid for clemency from the governor who could commute the sentences and say yes, let them out. There is also a pending habeas petition that is saying there's new evidence here that was not known before that came out during, during the documentaries. And so there should be a new trial granted. I don't think that's the option anyone in the Menendez camp wants seeing how long they've been in custody. So there's like a multi prong wave going on. Do I think at the end of the day a court might consider re sentencing them? Yeah, maybe. They, they really might. But it's not going to be an easy decision for a judge. I don't know if that decision will be made the day they go to hearing in Los Angeles, but there has to be a hearing. I think the most impactful will be the victims families and the Menendez brothers families and their behavior in custody. And it seems from all accounts that their behavior in custody, even when they had that life without parole over their head, has been trying to not just improve themselves, but give back to the community within custody. So we'll see what the judge does. But I think the victim's family is the most important consideration in that. If they think he should be free, if they think that there's rehabilitation there, then isn't it for them to have the most weight when you go to court?

[Nick Viall]

This is all very interesting stuff, Emily, and we really appreciate you taking the time. Can you please let my audience know where they can follow you? Watch your show, all that fun stuff that you're putting out there.

[Tyler]

Absolutely. At the Emily D. Baker all over the Internet. I do live streams on YouTube covering the trending and positive pop culture court cases and live trials. We just finished the Sarah Boone trial. Six very long days in Florida to cover that case. And we've got Karen Reid coming up for trial again in January and some hearings going forward in that and of course all the ditty stuff in both the long form live streams and on quick bits. So really if you just download the Lawnard app, which is my app, it'll let you know what I'm covering and where. So you're up to date on all.

[Nick Viall]

The things legal Amazing. Well, we appreciate you. Can't wait to talk to you again, Emily.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Bye.

[Tyler]

Talk to you soon. Have a good one.

[Nick Viall]

Bye. Bye.

[Tyler]

Bye, everybody.

[Nick Viall]

Great stuff.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Final thoughts on OC I guess a reunion. So will you see the re. Is the reunion next week?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Next week? Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Or this week?

[Nick Viall]

Three parts, I'm guessing. So they'll, they'll come?

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Well, we don't know if it's three parts yet.

[Nick Viall]

I believe. We don't know. We won't get to Jen. Is Jen going to be. This will be the last topic discussed on the season. Right. They'll save it.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

You would think so. To keep people watching. Yeah, but I think Jen is guaranteed to come back next season. So I say that just because people want her back.

[Nick Viall]

But, but I think they're all gonna be back. I hope, I hope they are.

[Ramses]

It'll be sprinkled throughout. I find it hard to believe that Tamara's gonna be able to like, not have a little dig at her at any chance she gets. Second that like the heat comes on Tamara, she's gonna be like, yeah, well, what about the FBI?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I, I, I mean for all the criticism we've leveled against Tamara, I still want her on my t. No.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

100%.

[Nick Viall]

I, I do not want her off.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

No.

[Nick Viall]

God, if she, if she's going to.

[Vanessa Grimaldi]

Learn how to Jesus, she's, if she's.

[Nick Viall]

Going to be a learn how to be a better person, I want to at least want to watch watch it.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I'm good without Tamara. She can, she's a good, good tv. But I'm good without.

[Nick Viall]

But you ride for Lisa.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

I don't ride for Lisa. I just respect what she's done. I don't respect what Tamara has.

[Emily Baker]

Piece of garbage for she half of New York. You ride for that. You respect that.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

Four plus four she ate.

[Nick Viall]

Well, we respect you listening and we will be back tomorrow. So no matter what is happening with the election, whether we have news or not, just know that if you need to break away from reality, we are here to give you the tea. And there is a lot to be discussed with Ashley and Tyler's relationship. Ashley brings all the receipts. She goes in great detail the conversation she's had with her now husband Tyler and the baby mama. It's an episode you will not want to miss. I promise you that. We are also back on Thursday. Jackie Tone from your favorite hit Netflix show Nobody Wants Us is with us on Thursday's Reality Recap. Plus, will we get into Rony, some bachelorette and whatever else is going on in your headlines. We will be sure to cover it on Thursday. We'll see you then. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your your podcast Q and guess what? Now you can call them on your auto insurance too with the name your price tool from Progressive. It works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for your car insurance and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. Get your quote [e-mail] and join over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliate's price and coverage match limited by state law. It's better over here. ATT customers switching to T Mobile Mobile has never been easier. We'll pay off your existing phone and give you a new one free. All on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com carrierfreedom to switch today. Pay off up to 650 via virtual prepaid MasterCard in 15 days. Free phone up to $830 via 24 monthly bill credits plus tax qualifying port and trade in service on Go 5G next and credit required. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance and required finance agreement is due. Helix Sleep Wish I was in my Helix mattress right now. I'll tell you that right now because I am sleepy. But when I get done, whenever I get done with work, I am so excited to lay my heavy head on my Helix mattress because it is the most comfortable mattress ever made. Truly it's the greatest invention right next to electricity. I actually would put it right before electricity because I don't need light when I'm sleeping. Helix mattresses are amazing. They have a mattress for everyone. We Natalie and I sleep on the moonlight mattress. But that may not be the one for you. I don't know how you sleep. I don't know. Do you sleep hot? Do you sleep cold? Do you sleep on your side? Do you sleep on your stomach? Do you sleep standing up? Do you sleep on your head? I don't know. But the good thing is Helix has 20 unique mattresses for any kind of sleeper. All you gotta do is take a quick quiz. You just go to helixleep.com answer a couple basic questions about your preferences on how you sleep, how you want to feel when you sleep and helix will select one of their 20 unique amazing mattresses for you so that you can get the best sleep of your life. They have the award winning Luxe and ultra premium elite collections. Plus they have mattresses for even those kiddos. That's right, the little ones need to sleep too and Helix has amazing mattresses for them as well. They also give you 100 night sleep trial so you can sleep on it for 100 nights. Try it out, it'll be awesome and if you don't want it you can send it back. They also have a 1010 to 15 year warranty on all their mattresses depending on the mattress that you get. If that's not good enough for you, well just know that they were awarded the number one mattress picked by GQ and Wire magazine, also recommended by multiple leading chiropractors and sleep doctors as the go to solution for improving your sleep. So if you are in the market for a new mattress, look no further than Helix. Just go to helixleep.com again. Answer a couple of those questions and in a few days you will be sleeping on the best mattress ever invented. Helix is offering up 20% off all mattress orders go to helixleep.com v I a l l that is helix sleep.com v I a l l with helix better sleep starts now.