E842 Ask Nick - His Secret Double Life

Summary

Episode Summary: The Viall Files - E842 Ask Nick: His Secret Double Life

Release Date: November 18, 2024

In episode E842 of "The Viall Files," host Nick Viall delves into listeners' relationship dilemmas, offering insightful advice on navigating complex personal situations. This episode features two primary callers, Brooke and Jordan, each grappling with unique challenges in their romantic lives. Nick provides comprehensive guidance, blending practical strategies with empathetic understanding to help them move forward.

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Brooke's Call: Pursuing a Romance with a District Attorney

Timestamp: [01:17] – [34:28]

Caller Profile: Brooke, a 31-year-old police officer, is seeking advice on how to approach Max, a district attorney (DA) she’s interested in. Their professional roles place them within the same county jurisdiction, complicating their potential relationship.

Key Points Discussed:

1. Workplace Dynamics and Dating Policies:

   • Brooke explains that while there are no strict HR policies against inter-office dating, dating a superior is prohibited [01:28].
   • Their professional interactions are limited to court appearances and occasional conversations [02:09].

2. Limited Interaction and Social Media Engagement:

   • Brooke mentions that Max has liked her social media stories, creating a subtle connection [03:00].
   • Despite minimal face-to-face interactions, Brooke feels a growing interest in Max [05:25].

3. Challenges in Making a Move:

   • Brooke is unsure how to initiate contact without appearing too forward, given their limited interactions [07:44].
   • She considers leveraging mutual friends but is unsure of its effectiveness [07:44].

4. Nick's Advice:

   • Direct Communication: Nick advises Brooke to send Max a direct message (DM) on Instagram to test his responsiveness [08:24]. For example, sending a random question or commenting on an old picture to gauge his engagement [09:02].
   • Confidence and Boundary Setting: Emphasizes Brooke’s confidence and directness as strengths, encouraging her to be clear and purposeful in her approach [06:21].
   • Assessing Responses: If Max responds positively, Brooke can take the next step and ask him out. If not, she should consider moving on without overthinking [12:23].
   • Listening to Her Needs: Nick reinforces the importance of prioritizing her own needs and not seeking validation solely through Max’s responses [31:09].

Notable Quotes:

• Brooke: "I'm in my single era right now... I'm just kind of casting reels." [05:27]
• Nick: "Send him a message... see if he's checking his DMs." [08:24]
• Nick: "Trust your instincts. Prioritize your needs." [31:09]

Insights and Conclusions:

• Take Initiative: Brooke is encouraged to take proactive steps in reaching out to Max, leveraging social media as a non-threatening avenue.
• Maintain Self-Worth: Emphasizes the importance of not tying her self-worth to Max’s responsiveness, fostering a healthy approach to potential workplace romance.
• Balanced Approach: Nick advises balancing professional boundaries with personal interest, ensuring Brooke remains confident and self-assured regardless of Max’s response.

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Jordan's Call: Overcoming a Heartbreaking Ghosting After Discovering a Double Life

Timestamp: [39:30] – [121:30]

Caller Profile: Jordan, a 28-year-old professional, shares her painful experience of being ghosted by her boyfriend after discovering he led a double life with another woman. She seeks guidance on moving forward without closure.

Key Points Discussed:

1. Relationship Background and Sudden Breakup:

   • Jordan was in a 1.5-year long-distance relationship with a boyfriend who tours for a band.
   • After significant relationship milestones, including joint travel and future plans, Jordan discovers her boyfriend was simultaneously involved with another woman [40:53].

2. Identifying Red Flags:

   • Early signs included neglect during a personal crisis (dog’s illness) and inconsistent behavior [43:07].
   • The revelation of his second relationship came through another woman’s direct messages, which Jordan initially dismissed [50:10].

3. Emotional Impact and Seeking Closure:

   • Jordan is distressed by the lack of closure, feeling that her memories are tainted by her boyfriend’s deceit [56:18].
   • She grapples with trust issues and the struggle to move past the betrayal [70:27].

4. Nick's Advice:

   • Stop Seeking Closure: Nick advises Jordan to accept that closure from her ex may never come, encouraging her to focus on self-healing [70:27].
   • Recognize Self-Sabotage: He highlights how Jordan’s ego and desire for a perfect relationship led her to overlook red flags [60:11].
   • Set Boundaries: Emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and not allowing an ex’s behavior to dictate her emotional state [73:13].
   • Shift Perspective: Nick urges Jordan to focus on personal growth and learn from the experience to foster healthier future relationships [84:18].
   • Control Emotional Responses: Encourages managing her reactions and not allowing past trauma to influence new relationships [95:46].

Notable Quotes:

• Jordan: "He chewed over a year and a half and I know I'm so critical." [52:39]
• Nick: "You have to stop trying to insert what you think you know about these people with 2% of the information that you've already learned." [27:10]
• Nick: "You need to trust yourself more than you trust them." [24:24]

Insights and Conclusions:

• Empowerment Over Closure: Instead of relying on closure from her ex, Jordan is encouraged to empower herself through self-reflection and personal growth.
• Trusting Instincts: Emphasizes the importance of trusting her gut feelings and acting on red flags rather than rationalizing or seeking validation.
• Healthy Boundaries: Highlights setting healthy boundaries as crucial in preventing future emotional distress and fostering stronger self-worth.
• Moving Forward: Encourages Jordan to let go of the past, focus on her achievements (like passing the bar exam), and build new, healthier relationships based on mutual respect and transparency.

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Overall Episode Highlights:

• Common Themes: Both callers struggle with trusting their instincts and setting boundaries in relationships. Nick emphasizes the importance of self-worth, direct communication, and personal growth.
• Practical Strategies: The episode provides actionable advice, such as initiating direct contact in professional settings and recognizing when to move on from unfulfilling relationships.
• Emotional Resilience: Listeners are encouraged to build emotional resilience by prioritizing their needs and maintaining confidence in their decisions.

Notable Quotes from Nick:

• "Trust your instincts. Prioritize your needs." [31:09]
• "You can save your energy by letting go of situations that don't serve you." [60:29]
• "Changing your perspective is key to moving forward." [73:00]

Conclusion: Episode E842 of "The Viall Files" offers valuable insights into managing workplace romances and overcoming deeply hurtful breakups. Through real-life stories and expert advice, Nick Viall empowers listeners to make informed decisions, prioritize their well-being, and cultivate healthier relationships.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Brooke]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

How's it going?

[Brooke]

Hi, I'm Brooke. I'm 31 and I'm a police officer and I'm trying to shoot my shot with a district attorney.

[Nick]

Okay. All right. Scandalous. We love this. What is the HR policy?

[Brooke]

Well, so I work for a sheriff's office and technically, you know, district attorneys that work for the county, we're all kind of under the same umbrella because we all work for the same county. So there's not really like an HR anything in place with if we're allowed to date or not.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Brooke]

I guess so. I think the only thing that you can't do is you can't date a or superior, can't be with somebody that they have that they're a boss over, obviously, which makes sense. So we're under the same umbrella, but we're not under the same, like, entity. He's the courthouse. I'm patrol, essentially.

[Nick]

So is he the DA or is he like.

[Brooke]

No, he's not the. He's not the deputy district attorney. Not the head. Head honcho. He's just a district attorney. I think he's on. He's on misdemeanor. Misdemeanor crimes right now. So he's like low level crimes. Whatever. So his name's. We'll call him Max, but. And it's kind of like in my email I said we're friends, but like, it's not like we hang out outside of work. It's like when I see him at the courthouse when I go to do trial for whatever case I have going on, and he sees me, he, like, approaches me. We talk, and we follow each other on social media.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Brooke]

So that's kind of it.

[Nick]

Yeah. So not much to work with.

[Brooke]

Not much.

[Nick]

He.

[Brooke]

Not really. He's liked my stories before, which I feel like. Which sounds really stupid, but I feel like you don't dislike, I don't know, people's stories for no reason, I think. But that's probably really stupid. But.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, stupid might be a little harsh, but I. And I agree. I don't think people like it for no reason, but that reason might be just because, you know your friends.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Or casual. Yeah. You know, it's just like.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I don't know. Maybe.

[Brooke]

And I'm buddies. I'm buddies with another district attorney who's married, who's just, like, a nice guy. And me and him have, like, briefly, like, chatted on Instagram before about, like. Like, super. Not like, a thing. Like, he. He'll reply to, like, a story and be like, oh, my gosh, did you. Where did you hike? I went hunting here. Like, kind of stuff like that. So I feel like I could, like, reach out to his friend and kind of be like, hey, what's.

[Nick]

What the deal?

[Brooke]

Yeah, what's Max's deal? Like, is he. And he's not super active on social media, so.

[Nick]

Do you know anything about Max's relationship status? I mean, I'm assuming you don't know.

[Brooke]

I don't.

[Nick]

For all you know, he has a lady. He's just not, like, putting online.

[Brooke]

Yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't wear a ring, last I saw him. But, yeah, for all I know, he could be in a committed relationship, and I have, like, no idea how sure.

[Nick]

Of the friendship between Max and this other guy you're friends with. Like, how do you know if they're close or, you know, if they're just, like, casuals?

[Brooke]

Oh, man. I don't really have anything. I don't know.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Brooke]

I don't know. And I just feel like, Ma. Like, Max will come up and, like. Like, I've been sitting, waiting for trial. Not on, like, his case, like, another case. And he'll see me be like, oh, what's up?

[Jordan]

Blah, blah, blah.

[Brooke]

You know, he'll be like, I saw that you went to, like, the Taylor Swift concert, or, I saw that you did this. And he, like, brings up stuff, and we sit and chat for like, 15 or 20 minutes. And then I will say that's only happened like, three or four times in the last, like, two, three years. Because the off chance that I see him. It's not like cops don't go to trial like, every day, you know, Like, I've been a. I've been a cop, like, seven years. I think I've testified on the stand like, eight times. So it doesn't happen. Like, a lot of people take plea deals, trial gets canceled day of.

[Nick]

I'd love for you to figure out a way to pull them over and then ask them out on a date. That'd be kind of cool.

[Brooke]

Oh, that would be. That would be kind of cool. But I don't know how. Like, I don't even know where this man lives. I'm going to assume, like, obviously in the county somewhere, but I don't even know. And we're like, we're kind of in, like, the county that I work for is in, like, the major city in the state that I'm in, like, in the metro area centrally. So he could be anywhere.

[Nick]

Just out of curiosity, what is your, like, what is your interest in him?

[Brooke]

I don't know. He just seems, like, really nice.

[Nick]

You just. You seem like you don't know much of anything about him. So do you think. Is it. What is. What is the biggest draw? Do you think he's hot? Do you think. It's, like, brief interactions that.

[Brooke]

I think he's funny. Yeah. I think he's attractive. I think he's really nice. I'm also, like, I'm in, like, my single era right now. Like, just, like, back in the summer, got out of, like, a somewhat serious relationship that I thought was going to be kind of end game, I guess. So I think I'm just kind of casting reels, I guess. Like, I'm just kind of open to dating and, like, finding, like, I'm trying to be intentional with dating. So, you know, I see, like, he likes my stories, and I'm like, why isn't Max, like, ever? Like, I wonder what's going on with him. He's just always kind of been this, like, what if? Even the times, like, he first interacted with me, I was like, oh, this guy, like, came up and talked to me. That's kind of cool. But then, like, I didn't think anything of it. I was just like, whatever. And so now as I'm like, I feel like I'm in the most confident state.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Brooke]

I've ever been in. So I'm just Kind of like, well, what's the harm in, like, how.

[Nick]

No harm. Yeah. The answer is that. How old. Do you know? How old is Max? Do you know?

[Brooke]

I think he's about my age. 30, 31.

[Nick]

Well, the good news is, like you said, you're kind of in this kind of single era. Nothing's going to hurt other than your pride and your ego if it doesn't go your way. Yeah, there's that.

[Brooke]

I'm just wondering, like, if it's like, is it cheesy for a girl to like.

[Nick]

No.

[Brooke]

The only access I have to him is the county email, which I don't want to do it on that. And then Instagram.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, you know, Instagram is not the worst, you know, like, Right. It gets a bad rap for whatever reason. I don't know. Because maybe. I don't know. I don't know why. It just does. But that's how people are meeting, you know, online, right? Because you have the access to, you know, to. You don't need someone's number to just say hi or ask them out, you know. Have you ever DM'd each you guys. So you guys have had. You have sent messages back and forth.

[Brooke]

Like, no, so not me and Max. Max's friend that also works for the district attorney's office. Me and him have messaged back and forth. Because that was kind of like, could I do it through him? Like, he's a little bit more outgoing. I would say his friend, but his friends. I'm not interested in his friend. His friends, like, Mary, just a super outgoing, nice dude. And so I'm like, I wonder if I could somehow, like, let his friend know, like, hey, I think Max is cute.

[Nick]

So, you know, I have a. I have a suggestion before you go to the friend, right? Because you don't really know much information. I mean, listen, at the end of the day, we're just having fun here. I'm giving you ideas, but, like, do whatever the fuck you want is the real answer. There's no really harm in this. But if we're going to, like, try to figure out the safest, you know, create the least amount of ripples, you know, type of thing. I have an idea that doesn't include you reaching out to the friend first. And because you haven't DMed him. How often is he posting on his stuff?

[Brooke]

He does not post a lot, but he's active because he. I mean, like, at all. Like, I don't know if I. Maybe one post, maybe like a story.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Brooke]

But not a lot but he's active. Because every time. I'm not saying I post stories all the time, but whenever I post a story, he's. I can know he's seen it.

[Nick]

How often do you check your dms?

[Brooke]

Like, normal. Like, I don't know. Like, if I go on and I have a notification, I'm looking.

[Nick]

Oh, so you will. Okay. I honestly don't know because, like, someone in my position who uses social media for work, like, it's, you know, I'm very active or I have other people do it, but, like, I don't know how. There's definitely a world where he never does. Right. Anyways, my idea is for you to DM him. Not to ask him out, but like, kind of just basically see if the phone's on, so to speak. Right?

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So you send him a message. I don't know, ask him a random question. Maybe go find an old picture and ask him a question.

[Brooke]

Right?

[Nick]

Yeah. That's what you should do.

[Brooke]

I know that he likes college football, and his brother played for a major university in the state that I'm in, and he was like. Like a legit football player. So that's cool. I kind of. And we've talked about that in person. So, like, I don't even.

[Nick]

I don't even care about that. Find a random old picture.

[Brooke]

Okay?

[Nick]

You want to slightly be obvious that you were stalking a social media.

[Brooke]

Right?

[Nick]

You know, and then find a picture that you can ask him a question. Okay, so you go on, you find the picture, and then how do you do it? You, like, reply to someone or something. So, yeah, you go. You press that arrow button, and then you send it to him. You send him the picture and underneath, ask the question. Who gives a shit what the question is? You're doing this because you want to see if he's checking his dms. Okay, Right, because what we don't want to do is have you shoot your shot in the DMS and then he never checks it, period. And you're just like, did he read it? Did he not read it? You know, is he ignoring me? Is he just. Is he unaware? So you know what I'm saying? You want to know if he's checking your dm, so send something to him that is very easy for him to reply to. Because as far as, you know, like, it's like kind of random that you send them this message, but at the same time, whatever.

[Brooke]

Is it dumb if I do it? Like, does it matter what this is going to sound? So, like, microscopic. Like, why am I focusing on this. But is it cringy if I do that, like, in the morning, or should I wait, like, later in the evening? Like, I've, you know, maybe had a couple drinks and I'm just feeling flirtatious. You know what I mean?

[Nick]

Yeah. I think you're overthinking that. This is. We're not flirting. Probably. We're not. We're not flirting here. And we're literally, basically, we're pinging him. You know, we're. We're seeing. We're seeing if this is on. We're sending a signal, and we're seeing. We get a signal back. Because again, we just. The worst thing you could do, not the worst thing. It doesn't really matter. But, like, as I'm sure you would hate to have shoot your shot, not get a response from him, but have really no idea if he saw it or not. Because we are talking about a guy who's not very active on social media. And it's not a crazy thing to think that's a very busy, ambitious district attorney who is not active on social media, is probably maybe not checking his DMS all that often or ever. Right? Or maybe he is. We don't know. So this is just. We're just kind of seeing first if he is. Right. Let's assume he replies, right. And then at that point, I don't know, you could just ask him out. Feel like, hey, totally random. Have no idea here. Also, the good one of the 1 benefit for your ego that is for the fact that you don't even know if he even has a girlfriend is that you can give him an easy out. Right. If he doesn't want. For whatever reason, maybe he doesn't want to cross, you know, mix business with pleasure. Who knows what is, you know, you have no idea what's going on in this guy's personal life. Maybe he just got out of a relationship. Maybe he's kind of casually seeing someone. You don't know. So when you shoot your shot, you can say something like, listen, totally random, but, like, I have no idea whether you have someone or not someone. But if you're not, like, let's get drinks sometime. Just keep it cash. Right, Right. That's. Honestly, that's all you have to do if he doesn't, you know, like, if he for whatever reason doesn't want to go out with you, he can lie to you and be like, oh, yeah, I'm kind of seeing someone. Whatever.

[Brooke]

Right, Right.

[Nick]

You know?

[Brooke]

Right. Okay. And yeah, which is totally fine. Like, if I'm I'm just like, I'm in this. Like I said, like, I don't really care if he, like, rejects me. It's just kind of whatever. Like, I feel like I'm in this era of, like, I'm very confident in who I am and I feel good about myself. So it's like, if it doesn't, like, work out, I have a lot of other prospects. Like, I'm on dating apps. I'm on all the good stuff. So I'm just.

[Nick]

Yeah, we.

[Brooke]

Yeah, but I just didn't know, like. Yeah, I just didn't know what was kind of like, what would look stupid or whatever. But you're right. I kind of like that idea of pinging. I like the term pinging him. Like, just letting him just. And just to see, like, yeah, if he's even on his Instagram or what if he's checking DMS or whatever.

[Nick]

Yeah. Now, let's say you send him this ping and he doesn't reply, then you need a new strategy. Right. Because then it's like, oh, well, he probably didn't read it right because, like, we're going to send him a message that's he's gonna have no problem replying to.

[Brooke]

Yeah. You know, and on it, you can see when people read. When they read him. So if he reads it and ignores me, then that's kind of my answer, I think.

[Nick]

Yeah, but I don't think. I don't think he's gonna ignore the paint the picture you painted. I don't think he's gonna ignore you the first time.

[Brooke]

I don't think. Yeah, I don't think he is either.

[Nick]

And even the. And if you keep it casual, don't overthink it. Don't try to be funny, you know, don't, you know, like, you don't. He doesn't know you. He doesn't know your sense of humor. You don't know him, like, right. Hey, totally random. Not sure what your relationship status is, but if you're free, we should grab a drink.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, listen, I don't know what his like. To me, that's very direct. That's what I would say as a man to a woman. I think it's kind of hot when women do that. And you know, I do, too. You're a cop, like, right, You're a cop. So you have no business, and I'm assuming interest in dating a man who's intimidated by a strong personality. Right. And I'm assuming you have a fairly strong one. You're a cop. Right. So, like, I don't think you should overthink whether you should be direct or indirect. Just be who you are, because the last thing you want is to misrepresent yourself early on, you know, totally, and hide who you are. So, like, be direct. Tell them, you know, and then be direct, because, you know, that's probably who you are. Right. I mean, I don't know. Are you a direct person? Are you more. Are you. Are you surprisingly a sheepish person when you don't have the badge on?

[Brooke]

Yeah, no, I'm very direct. Very direct. And I don't really have a problem. Like, I. I don't know. I just. I'm very. Not confrontational, but I can bring things up very easily. And I'm not necessarily, like, get. I don't get embarrassed that much. I'm just kind of like, be like, you know, like, if I DM'd him and he was like, hey, actually have a girlfriend, I would have no problem seeing him at the courthouse the next day and just small talking him. You know what I mean? Like, I would just be. So. It would be easy. Like, that wouldn't be a thing for me. I just didn't know the way to approach it since, like, he's not. It'd be easier if he was active on social media, and then I could, like, reply to a story or something, but.

[Nick]

So if I don't. Yeah, and if you don't get a reply, then maybe you and I wouldn't message your friend, the other guy.

[Brooke]

Okay. Okay.

[Nick]

I mean, you could. I don't, you know, if you're anxious to do this.

[Brooke]

I'm not, like, mega anxious. I've, like. I went on a date last night with another guy. I've, like, okay, I'm kind of talking to, like, two or three other dudes. Like, I'm just kind of like.

[Nick]

So, yeah, if he doesn't reply, I think you're better off. Just if you. When you see this other guy, if you want to be like, hey, do you know what Max's story is? What's the situation?

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Does he have a girlfriend or not? You know, I don't know.

[Brooke]

Yeah, I'm down. I'm gonna send the DM later, I think.

[Nick]

Or you just randomly show up at the courthouse. You know, just.

[Brooke]

Yeah, I know where his office is at. I have, like, I can get in and do all that stuff.

[Nick]

So, I mean, you know, if you're that anxious, you could just walk by his office, be like, yo, check your dm, and then walk away.

[Brooke]

I Know that that'd be kind of crazy, but I would do it.

[Nick]

I mean, I don't think it's crazy. You just gotta keep it short and sweet. You just don't linger. Don't be like, hey, and stand there. You just kind of.

[Brooke]

I agree. That'd be kind of fucking crazy. But yeah, I agree. I actually have one more question about dating apps and dating, if you have time.

[Nick]

Yeah, shoot.

[Brooke]

I would consider myself kind of a modern woman. Right. Like I. And I think a lot of chicks feel this way. Whatever. I have my own career. I'm buying a house right now, Whatever. So I'm doing all these things and I don't find myself to be very, very needy when it comes to dating. And so like I went on a date with a guy, he's 30, we just had one date and then he's been gone last weekend. We're probably going to see each other again this weekend. Really nice. Attracted to him, all those things. But how do you, like, lay a boundary down that you don't want to text all the time? Because he's like very texty. And the more I learn about him, I found out that he was in a 10 year relationship as of six months ago.

[Nick]

So method.

[Brooke]

So, yeah, I had, I had drinks with him two weekends ago.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Brooke]

And he's like, like, really nice. We actually have like mutual friends, oddly enough. I went to the police academy with his brother like seven years ago, which is kind of a weird small world. Nice guy. I'm just sensing that he's like kind of. I guess I just don't know, like, how picky and bitchy can I be? I guess, like, he seems like he needs a lot of validation because he's new in the dating game and so he's like texting a lot and I'm like, hey, dude, like, I'm in the middle of my work week. I'm coaching recruits. I always have a recruit in my car. I work for a very busy county. Like, I don't have time to like sit here and small talk text you. And I feel like it ruins in person conversation. Like, if we're always attached at the fucking hip, it just feels like very needy. And like, I get over it pretty quick. I could tell he was kind of offended by it, but he was.

[Nick]

How did you say, did you say it like that?

[Brooke]

No, I was very like, I told him this in person too because we were texting, we met online and then we chatted online and then we exchanged numbers, which I was okay with. And then we Were texting leading up to our date. And then at our date I was like, hey, I'll be honest with you. Like, I'm not like the biggest, like, I like a check in text like every couple days type thing or if you have something that you need to tell me about our upcoming date, whatever. But I don't want to just sit here and text like, good morning, how are you? What are you up to? You know what I mean?

[Nick]

So like he was doing after one night of drinks.

[Brooke]

Yeah. And leading up to it was very like, like I tried to like let him go a couple times. So like leading up to our date, I was like working and it was like a Friday night or something and I was like, hey, like, I'm going to let you go. Work's pretty busy. I need to like, I. So as a coach, like I ride in the passenger seat of the patrol car and my recruit who's in training drives my car and I grade them all day. They call us ftos, Field training officers. So I have the luxury to text if I want, especially if it's a little bit slower overnight. But like I'm in and out of the car, I'm monitoring my recruit to make sure he doesn't die, I don't die, all that kind of crap. Right. We're not violating someone's rights. So like my brain is occupied and this man is like texting me. So I just kindly was like, hey, work's kind of busy. You know, I'll catch up with you later, have a good night. And he's like, just text me when you're not busy. Like he wouldn't end the conversation. And I was kind of like that immediately. I hate the word the ick. And I know you hate it too, but it gave me the ick. I was just like, let me go work my job. And like, we don't need to be talking all the time. And then on our date when I first met him, he disclosed to me, like it all made sense. He's like, I was in a 10 year relationship and as of six months ago, we mutually broke up. And I was like, so your entire 20s, you were with the same gal? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, that's all adding up. Like it's making sense.

[Nick]

Well, I don't know.

[Brooke]

Yeah, I just don't know how to like nicely. I don't know.

[Nick]

Well, I think you're overthinking that part, which is a bit. It's probably a little bit of a theme for you.

[Brooke]

Okay. Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, listen, at the. I just want to emphasize in early dating situations, that's what this is. It's really important to do what makes you feel the most comfortable. And we, as a, I guess, society or just. I think modern daters seem to really ignore that part.

[Brooke]

Right.

[Nick]

And they do what they think will make the other person happy or they do what they think will not make the other person sad or disappointed or whatever. You guys don't know each other. You're total strangers. You didn't even have this background that you have now on this guy. So it is really important for you to just set your boundaries or set your expectations and communicate those early on in a respectful way, which you did, you know, and if.

[Brooke]

Yeah, I was super. I wasn't rude. I was just super. Like, this is like, I'm a busy gal. Even when I'm, like, hanging out with my family and friends on my weekend, Like, I like to be present. I don't want to be glued to my phone.

[Nick]

And how did he handle it? Did he.

[Brooke]

He was, like, very. I could tell. Like, he understood. I could tell he didn't like it. Like, he was kind of like. I think he read into it maybe.

[Nick]

A little bit much, like, as much as you can remember. I really like you to tell me as much as you can remember exactly what he said.

[Brooke]

He was like, oh, yeah, Like, I feel the same way. I don't like to text a lot either. Which I immediately was like, but you do. You literally, like, you wouldn't let me end the conversation. Like, four times in the last week, every time I tried to say, hey, I'm doing stuff, I'll talk to you. It was always, just, text me when you're. When you're ready. Like, text me when you're done with what you're doing. I don't mind, like, that kind of thing. So he was respectful, and he's like, hey, I totally get it. No big deal. And then the next morning after our date, he was like, hey, I'd like to see you again. I said, yeah, Like, I'm open to another date. Totally cool. Whatever. The next morning, he Snapchats me. I fucking hate Snapchat. I don't even know why I still have it, but he Snapchats me. So, like, I. Of course I open it and I'm like, okay, I have to reply to him. Reply back. And then he's like, that's a meaty, bitchy comment. Like, oh, he was going camping this last weekend, so he was going to be out of Service. And he was like, I'm packing for camping. I bet you're so excited to get rid of me. And I was like, I just kind of messaged him back on Snapchat. Very. Yes, I messaged him back. And my last boyfriend used to do that shit all the fucking time. And I messaged him back. I said, look, it kind of sounds like you're feeling like you need some validation in the, like, if I want to text you department. I literally said that. And I was like, I just want you to know, like, I told you I wanted to see you again. I just laid a boundary out that I don't like to text all the time. Nothing to do with you. It's just how I like to live my life. And then he texts me. He got off Snapchat and text me and was like this long text, like, I. I read your Snapchat message. I just want you to know. Yeah, sometimes I. I do need validation. You seem like a catch. I really am attracted to you. I really want to see you again. And I am kind of worried that going out of town for five or six days, you're going to forget about me. And I'm like, dude, it's been one fucking date. One date. I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, I don't. It just seemed really intense and aggressive.

[Nick]

Couple things to remember. A couple of things to remember. All right, slow down for a second. All right, One, I just want you to remember this guy and his behavior after one round of drinks. The next time you meet someone that you're really excited about who doesn't give you the same attention, I just want to point out to you and everyone listening, this is how men behave when they're really excited and really like someone.

[Brooke]

Right?

[Nick]

And I just like. So I just want to point that out to everyone listening when they're like, why doesn't he call me back? And you get together with the girls and you're all, like, trying to make up a bunch of bullshit excuses as to why he hasn't reached out or to why he hasn't, you know? And you're like, well, he's busy, blah, blah, blah. I'm just saying this is the energy of a guy who's excited about someone new. And so just remember that when you're wondering about someone else. Right? That being said, like, listen the way you remember it. Yeah. One, he sounds like a guy who, like you said, doesn't have a ton of dating experience and is used to having a partner. Right? He's used to Having that companionship, you know, that neediness. Right. Like, not neediness, but just like, he's used to having someone. Right. I don't know how his relationship ended, and you don't know that either, but six months, not a ton. You know, maybe there's some trauma there. Maybe. I mean, she left him. You know, he's probably feeling.

[Brooke]

He makes it sound. This was weird. He was like, it was mutual. And never mutual actually, like this. Yeah, I. I don't know. He's just like, it was mutual. We just, like, grew apart, whatever. And then he was like, but I don't know if this is, like, weird for you, but we are kind of still friends. I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, well, we have the same friend group. So I see her and I was like, I didn't even ask any details because I didn't feel like I had the right to ask in that moment.

[Nick]

I was just like, I mean, I would. I would. With that information, I would go to Vegas and probably put a large bet down that she broke up with him. If I could somehow get the facts.

[Brooke]

That's. That's kind of what I was thinking, too. I was like, there's more to this story. Like, this is not.

[Nick]

And maybe the more of the story is like, you know, listen, after 10 years, for example, one of my serious relationships, my last serious relationship in my 20s, we dated for two and a half years. So it wasn't 10 or anything like that. And when we broke up, it was mutual. We were at each other's throats. It re like, we were like, we need a fucking break. We agreed on that. But at the end of the day, I was more of the driving force, and she was more interested in getting back together. And at that point, you know, I had a little more dating experience. I had gotten back together with other girlfriends in the past. I was kind of done doing that. So I was very much like, no. So it was me who really ultimately ended that relationship, where she was probably more willing to try it out and restart and figure it out. And I just wasn't right. So I'm sure there's a little bit of truth to it was mutual. They did it for 10 years. Right. A lot of history there. Maybe. They were probably fighting for a couple years and they finally just got exhausted. But it's never totally mutual. And it sounds, based on what you're telling me, that maybe she was more the driving force of the breakup than not. And the fact that they have mutual friends makes a lot of sense. They did it for 10 years. I guess my point of this guy is it's like, I don't, you know, listen, I don't know if you want to date him again. I don't know if you not. It sounds like so far, you know, he didn't ace the test, but he didn't fail it either, you know?

[Brooke]

Yeah, he's not like. Not like a bad guy. I just, like, I know I'm so critical. Like, he. We talked about habits, like, lifestyle stuff. I would say I'm. I'm pretty active. Like, I lift three to four times a week. I walk a lot. I don't drink and get like, crazy drunk all the time. Like, I'm pretty conscious about my alcohol intake. And this guy kind of sounds like he's like, oh, you don't go to the bar? And I was like, dude, I can't tell you the lot. I think the last time I was at a bar was a bachelorette party like a year ago. And he's like, oh, like, you know, me and my buddies, like, go to the bar a couple times a month. And I'm like, to do what? Just hang out and drink like that? That kind of shit.

[Nick]

Like, well, I don't know. A couple times a month is not a lot for a guy who. How old is this guy?

[Brooke]

I know he's 30, but like, I'm just like. It just seems like. And then like, lifestyle stuff. He's like, he doesn't eat fast food all the time, but I know he's kind of like, yeah, I go out to eat a lot. I do all that stuff, and I'm.

[Nick]

All right, so let's pause that for a second. My thing is, right, right now, with this guy or any of these other guys, this is called dating. Stop trying to figure them out. Right? He gave you some information about going to the bars twice a month. His buddies like, you don't go to the bars. There's a slight disconnect there between. In terms of compatibility.

[Brooke]

Right.

[Nick]

You know, but now you're like, instead of. Instead of getting his information that he gave you, and then in your own mind, trying to intern interpret to what you think that means, why don't you just either a, decide whether you want to get to know more or not, right? Like, so if you do want to continue to hang out with them, then you. You see, you know, and enjoy this period of dating like, that you are. That you're comfortable being single, that you are. But don't just be a fuck boy in the Sense. Yeah, date, like you said, with intention. So like date these guys, get to know them, you know, like set these boundaries. You're kind of operating with this kind of like, who gives a fuck attitude, which is great. So that you can actually be willing to have these direct conversations with these men and see how they respond. Right. Do they respond in a way that makes you go, oh my God, absolutely not. Or like, yeah, I don't know, sounds like a little bit of a lost puppy, but it's kind of endearing. And he does seem to really have an interest in me. And like, you know, I don't know, I'm not sold on them, but like, I'm definitely interested in learning more. And so you go out with them and you see if date two was better or worse than date one and then you go on from there, right? But just stop trying to insert what you think you know about these people with, with 2% of the information that you've already learned, which is what we all do and you're doing, right? So like just try not to over overthink that part. Collect the data, right? You're learning something about, I guess, men in general by dating this guy because he's admitted to you, he's really excited about you. His behavior is matching that. And you've probably been someone like everyone else before you. When we like someone and they don't give us the same energy we want back, we will make excuses for the behavior and then we will give people, you know, and then we'll chase that instead of just accepting how they're treating us. Right. Or their lack of interest in us, you know, and we waste a lot of time trying to figure things out because we want that validation. We all want validation. Quite honestly, I think it was pretty impressive for this guy to acknowledge that he likes the validation that he does. It doesn't mean he's an awesome guy. Maybe he's like, I don't know, maybe he's self aware but still really needy guy, you know, which would be kind of you. But like it showed a level of maturity from him to not get super defensive and to just simply say, I think you're right now, you know, when the funny that the fact that you said that he went off of Snapchat and then sent you a long text, I could absolutely picture I guess myself or anyone in that position realizing like, okay, I should text this on a text because it's a serious conversation. I don't want to send this over Snapchat. And then feeling very self conscious about that, but feeling like I really needed to, like, express myself and get it out because not sending it. She's. You know, we've all. He's overthinking it too. Right, Right.

[Brooke]

So totally.

[Nick]

Who knows? Probably not your guy, but, like, stop. You don't have to figure that out. Right?

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Just totally go out with them. And again, you're a cop. Like, the worst thing that you're going to have to deal with. You know, the more dates you go on with someone, the harder it is to end it if you decide to end it, you know?

[Brooke]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jordan]

So.

[Nick]

But you're a direct. You're a direct person. You're not afraid of a little a man crying conflict.

[Brooke]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure you see those too much at work. So.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Brooke]

Okay, awesome. Well, thank you. I appreciate all the advice.

[Nick]

No, my pleasure. Yeah. Just enjoy this time. Try not to overthink it. Trust your instincts. Prioritize your needs. Especially early on when you actually build rapport with any of these guys. Then you can start, not necessarily change your behavior, but, like, when you build an emotional connection with someone, then, you know, it makes sense to start empathizing with them and being considerate for them and going out of your way for them and showing them that you're willing to make a priority to a certain extent after one or two dates.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Fuck. You don't owe these people anything. Right?

[Brooke]

I know. You're so right. Yeah.

[Nick]

So, yeah, that's. That's my. My 2 cents. But as far as the DA. Have fun with it.

[Brooke]

Just do it.

[Nick]

Just do it.

[Brooke]

Fuck it.

[Nick]

Be great if you can pull them over before I let you go. Give me, give me, Give me one bit of advice in terms of how do I get out of a ticket when I get pulled over? What's. What's, what's one thing.

[Brooke]

Don't, don't cry. Do not. Like, when girls cry. I'm like, fuck off right now. Like, unless you're 16. I don't. Unless you're a teenager who, like, just got their license, don't cry. But admit that you're wrong. Admit that and give the real reason. So if you're just like, if I pulled somebody over for speeding, it's like, what are we in a rush for? Like, oh, like, I'm running over, like, to get my mom, who felt like some excuse or like, whatever. Just be like, I wasn't paying attention and I was just speeding.

[Nick]

Yeah, okay.

[Brooke]

You know what I mean?

[Nick]

I feel like I'm already doing.

[Brooke]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Don't know. And like, honestly a lot of cops, like I'm not a traffic unit so I pull traffic to hunt. So I'm looking for stolen cars, guns, narcotics and wanted people. So I'm not like just stopping people just because like they're going 10 over. Like I could give a fuck to be honest. Like unless you're driving egregiously, don't really care, you know what I mean?

[Nick]

Is that why no one gets pulled over in la? Because they don't have enough cops for that and I just feel like probably they're fighting real crime. Yeah, yeah.

[Brooke]

Like I work for a sheriff's office, so I'm a solo. Like I ride in a solo car, deputy, whatever. And we go to like we call them house calls. So it's domestic disturbances, stolen vehicles in progress, menacing in progress, like you're going to all these hot calls, you know what I mean? And then you get slower calls too, like hey, someone stole my car yesterday. So you take like an over the phone report or whatever. But if I'm driving around, I work 4pm to 2am so kind of like an early graves I guess. If I'm driving around at midnight and I'm running plates, I'm. I'm not really looking for the like 16 year old kid who's coming home late from the prom, you know what I mean? Like I'm looking for like legit criminals. I'm not, I don't give a about that. Like so if you are getting pulled over and it's a cop on a motor motorcycle, that's a traffic cop who's probably going to give you a ticket, I'll say that. So most motors. Yeah, most like traffic cops ride motorcycles or they have unmarked like Challengers or.

[Nick]

Chargers because it's like they're gonna give you a ticket because it's like what they do.

[Brooke]

Yeah, like that's their. They're literally. Yeah, I don't, I won't say they have a quota, but they definitely are. So they're supposed to meet like a certain standard. I guess. So, yeah, it's sometimes like, yeah, I'm looking for like if you have no plates on your car, that's kind of, that's a weird. Like a lot of stolen cars have no license plates on them or you know what I mean? So like there's just certain things that all we need is a violation to legally stop you and identify you. So. But yeah, don't be, just be honest.

[Nick]

Hey.

[Brooke]

Yeah, I was on my phone, I was looking at my maps like, honestly, like just be straight up. And most of the time, regular non traffic cops are pretty. If you're respectful and you seem like a normal dude and you're history, like your license, you have insurance, you have registration, they're probably going to give you a warning.

[Nick]

Good to know. All right, well, thank you for the free advice. Have fun dating out there. Please let us know once you shoot your shot, what happens.

[Brooke]

Okay, I will. Thank you so much. I love you guys. I've been listening like since the beginning, literally. Love you guys.

[Nick]

So we appreciate it and thank you for your service.

[Brooke]

Thank you. Talk to you guys later.

[Nick]

Bye. Take care. Bye. Bye.

[Katie]

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[Nick]

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[Unnamed Caller]

Hi there.

[Nick]

What's your name?

[Unnamed Caller]

So my name is Katie and I'm 28 years old.

[Nick]

How can we help Katie?

[Unnamed Caller]

So my boyfriend lived a double life and he ghosted me when I found out. And I'm just trying to figure out how I move on without any closure. Any answers.

[Nick]

Okay, how long are you dating this guy?

[Unnamed Caller]

Okay, so we were dating for a year and a half.

[Nick]

When you say double life, what do you mean?

[Unnamed Caller]

So basically the entire thing is like we, we were long distance, we flew to each other, we spent probably every month, if not more like two times a month together. We spent Christmases, Valentine's Day. Like we spent basically everything coupling that normal couples do. It wasn't like a long distance where we don't see each other. So he also tours for a living. He works for band. So I would also fly out to a few days of the tour and we basically just made everything work really well. In June we went on a romantic trip for a one year anniversary. We went to a wedding together. We met each Other's families. We made plans for the remainder of the year. In July, I wrote the bar exam to move to the States with him. And everything was kind of just perfect and falling into place. The day after I wrote my bar, I went to go visit him on the road, and we spent his birthday together. We traveled around for a few days. We discussed visiting my family post tour, we were talking about moving in together. I booked a trip to see him the last days of tour, which is like 10 days after that.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Caller]

So just to give you a little bit of backstory before the double life came in, because there's kind of like a two part to this. August 10th, three days before my flight took off, we got into an argument. And the next day he just called and broke up with me out of the blue, completely blindsided. I'm like packed to leave.

[Nick]

What were you guys finding about himself?

[Unnamed Caller]

Like, so my dog had got into an onion, so she had a little bit of onion toxicity. She was very sick. And I asked him to FaceTime me, and instead he went to the bar. So I just thought, I'm like, watching my dog if she could die. And he's out at the bar with his friends drinking.

[Nick]

Gotcha. Okay. And you confronted him about that and yes, it turned into a fight.

[Unnamed Caller]

And it turned into a fight. And it was kind of a texting thing. And I expected it to just be the next day. Hey, that wasn't cool. We should have done that better. And instead I got a call and he's like, we're breaking up.

[Nick]

Okay. How old is this guy?

[Unnamed Caller]

He's 29.

[Nick]

How old are you again? 28. Okay.

[Unnamed Caller]

So when the tour ended, I went to his city to talk through everything. We spent like 30 hours together.

[Nick]

We were talking after you broke up?

[Unnamed Caller]

Yes. I flew to his city to talk again, to talk through the whole breakup. Because this was on FaceTime.

[Nick]

Yeah. But just to be clear, he knew you were coming, you know, he agreed to have you come out. You stayed with him?

[Unnamed Caller]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay. All right. So you flew out there after you broke up, stay with him, and then for about 30 hours. Did you guys get back together temporarily or you do fight all weekend? Slightly. You know, fight plus hookup. Like, what was that weekend like?

[Unnamed Caller]

It was talking for like 30 hours about everything. It was the healthiest breakup. We, like, went for dinners, we went for dates, everything. And then I flew home and then flew back a week later for my birthday. And then we basically decided remain exclusive of work on our issues. See how things go. So this is the beginning of September. So not fully broken up. Kind of taking a step back to work on things.

[Nick]

Just out of Curiosity, in that 30 hour conversation, did he acknowledge his behavior regarding your dog?

[Unnamed Caller]

No, he didn't.

[Nick]

He didn't. Okay. Interesting. No, not. Not surprising.

[Unnamed Caller]

But the gist of it was basically, I'm tired of doing things for you and I want to do more for me.

[Nick]

Okay, well, that's. Honestly, I think it's important that you recognize that.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yes. And in retrospect, when I, like go through it, that's a very important part. That he basically was saying he didn't care.

[Nick]

Correct.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yes.

[Nick]

Over something that's like kind of simple and trivial, you know?

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah. It was very easy to just give a phone call when your dog is very sick. She's like a little tiny Shih Tzu. She's not, she's not like a big dog that could take it.

[Nick]

And, and just, just to verify, I mean, I'm assuming that while there has been the occasional moment here or there throughout your relationship where you needed him to be a boyfriend and support you, that he wouldn't. Who knows what he would say? But it's not as if every week there was a new dramatic thing you needed him to give your attention and he, you know, like, if I were talking to him, would he be like, oh my God, yeah, sure. I mean, yeah, I guess I should have done that. But like it was every other day there was something new with this person and it was just like, you know, that's not what's going on here. Here. To be clear. Yeah.

[Unnamed Caller]

No, there was nothing else. I also don't think that he liked that I was stressed out about writing the bar exam, which I'm sure you know, it's a 12 hour exam. It's extremely stressful to be a lawyer. Dependent on that. Yes.

[Nick]

When you say writing the bar exam, what do you mean by that versus taking? Is that just a. A phrase?

[Unnamed Caller]

Figure of speech, just a different phrase.

[Nick]

Okay. All right. I was curious. Yeah. So. And then he, and what you're saying, he had a certain opinion about what?

[Unnamed Caller]

Just that his life was as stressful as mine. He sells T shirts for bands. And I'm writing the bar exam and teaching myself U.S. law. I didn't go to a U.S. school, so I taught myself U.S. law for six months. And I'm writing a 12 hour exam and it would very much be, well, well, my life is stressful because I'm selling T shirts.

[Nick]

What did you think about that?

[Unnamed Caller]

I thought it was very dismissive and I mean I tried to not be judgmental because some people have just as tough. But I mean, I did need a little bit more support, given my circumstance, for a few months.

[Nick]

Sure. But let's be judgmental for a hot second. I'm just curious, while someone in your position who's, you know, investing in themselves as much as you are, you seem like a very attractive young lady. Why are you wasting your time on a guy selling T shirts for a band?

[Unnamed Caller]

I think it was just very charismatic, very charming.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Unnamed Caller]

Sold me this, sold me the whole thing. And like, I'm sure you understand too. It's. It's exciting traveling around, going to visit and like always jetting off. It was like a cool lifestyle.

[Nick]

Sure. But it wasn't really his lifestyle. Yeah, you know.

[Unnamed Caller]

No, correct. It was him working for other people.

[Nick]

Yeah. So, I mean, I get what you're saying, but I just want, you know, you called in and your biggest goal when you called in was to find the closure that you didn't think he was giving you. Right?

[Unnamed Caller]

Yes.

[Nick]

And you, when you get. When you told me the story, and it makes all the sense in the world why you told me the story that you did, but your story was you listed a bunch of facts about why this breakup was surprising. You know, and so when you list that off, you were basically saying, you know, we celebrated our anniversary, we went to weddings together, you essentially told me a bunch of nice things about your relationship. Right. Which is normal. I get that you're, you're trying to, you're painting a picture of why you were as upset or caught off guard as you were. So I understand that context that you were, why you said that. But part of that context that you are leaving out when you're telling the story of your relationship are, you know, things like, you know, the he didn't give a fuck when my dog was dying type of things. I know you shared that story, but I'm just saying, as you remember your relationship, you know, it's really important to remember everything about your relationship and in addition to that, see it for a little bit more, with a little bit more honesty than you did when you are dating him. It was easier for you to kind of overlook the fact that you weren't dating the musician in the band or like the manager or some high level person. You were dating someone who wanted, like you, quite honestly, to enjoy this very exciting lifestyle. So he like agreed to have like this, you know, basic job that literally anyone can do with any education level so that he, you know, and I'm Imagining he didn't make a ton of money. Because jobs like those are just like, hey, if you want to ride with us, if you want to hang out with us and travel and we'll give you incredible access and you can sell T shirts for us, you can have this job. Job, right? Yeah. Cool, right? And that's. It's great for like a young person, you know, fresh out of college or in college, whatever. You know, guy is about to hit 30 and you're going to school to be a lawyer and you're investing yourself. I don't know, like, maybe I'm being hypercritical here. I'm just saying it sounds like maybe he wasn't your equal. And it went in the department of careers. Right.

[Unnamed Caller]

And totally, totally.

[Nick]

I don't know what his career plans were. I don't know what his future goals were. Doesn't sound like he had had a ton of plans or specific ones. I mean, for him, selling T shirts was, I guess, complicated. I don't know.

[Unnamed Caller]

Totally. For some reason.

[Nick]

So listen, I don't know how long you've been listening to the show. You don't need him for closure. And we can just have a fun little exercise to figure that out.

[Unnamed Caller]

There's even more to the story to this.

[Nick]

Oh, well, tell me to share. Share. Share the story.

[Unnamed Caller]

We haven't even got to the to the part yet. Okay, so all of that said, September, he goes on tour and it's all normal, facetiming, good night, morning, etc, basic relationship stuff. Nothing's changed. We booked a trip in October for me to go visit. We booked concert tickets, we planned to open the bar Results together, which was the most important day of my life. September 28th, we FaceTimed. Everything is great. We made plans for dinner the next day. I think nothing happens that night. I go on Instagram and I see that his ex is moving to his city. And we've had had issues with her the whole time. So I simply say, hey, why didn't you tell me your ex was moving to your city and I didn't have to find out on Instagram? And thinking it was a basic respect thing, I just don't want to find that out on Instagram. He got very aggressive, he got very rude. A lot of mean things were said. Then the next day I said, okay, things have cooled off. Can we have a sober conversation? And he replies, he's not super stoked on a call right now. And I had never heard from him again. And I tried to message, figure everything out. I had a flight booked 10 days later, I had concert tickets. Just completely ghosted. He replied to zero, but he sent me money on PayPal to buy Sabrina Carpenter tickets, but couldn't send me a sorry or apology or anything.

[Nick]

What do you mean to buy? Like, he just paid you for your half of the ticket type of thing?

[Unnamed Caller]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Unnamed Caller]

So I started racking my brain and kind of thinking, well, it's the ex. Is it somebody else? Is it? Like, what could have happened? So then I thought back and looked where he was when this happened. And our fight had taken place in the same city where he was previously linked to another girl. This girl had messaged me back in April saying that she had a relationship with him. When he posted a photo of us on Instagram, he swore it was a flirty friend that went too far one time, and it was a drunk kiss. Swore up and down. And I was just so distraught over this, so I just assumed that that's all it was. I forgave him. I worked through it. I just. I was in love. I tried to move past it.

[Nick]

Okay, fair enough.

[Unnamed Caller]

But so we got to talking, and the girl had sent me over 30 screenshots over the course of 11 out of 14 months that we were together of him telling her he's in love with her. He was flying her out to see her. He had her meet his family. There's photos of her together. She would be flown out a few days before he would see me. She was flown out to different tour dates. So he had an entire second girlfriend, basically our entire relationship. And I had no idea any of this. And.

[Nick]

Well, yeah, you did.

[Unnamed Caller]

He cheated the whole entire time.

[Nick]

No, but I want you to recognize that for part of this relationship, you actually knew the truth. You just chose to ignore it.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yes.

[Nick]

You know, Yes, I did. And I only point this out because it can be very scary to be ghosted in the manner in which you did. And it can be very scary to be in a relationship with someone seemingly trust them, only to be blindsided to find out they had this whole secret relationship that you didn't, you know, know about. Right. And then you can spiral and be like, well, how can I trust anyone? All men are pieces of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, how could I even. Like, I had no idea. But, like, you did. You had an idea. Right.

[Unnamed Caller]

And I. I had a feeling.

[Nick]

Not only do you have a feeling, she reached out and told you, and you were like, nah, I don't believe her.

[Unnamed Caller]

I know.

[Nick]

And, like, that was nuts that you didn't believe her. You didn't want to believe her was the truth. Like how? I mean, listen, like, think about it, right? This random girl reached out, says, I'm in a relationship with this guy, right? You confront him and his response isn't like, I don't even know who that fucking is. Which, it still could have been a lie, but like, I don't know. I don't even know what a valid excuse would be because it's like, why would someone like this reach out? That's the obvious question, right? So it could have been like an absolute crazy person. But his response was, oh, this was like a flirty friend, but it's like, it's not what she thinks it is. Like what? Like he's a, what is he, Is he flirty friends with someone who should be in a mental hospital? Like, why would someone think they're in a relationship with someone when they're not? That's crazy, right? You know what's more believable? That he's friends with someone who should be in a mental institution or he's lying, right? Yeah. And it was obvious, but you just didn't want to see it. You didn't want to believe it. You just completely chose to. In your mind, it was easier for you to tell yourself that she was crazy or that she had some sort of problem and you just chose to believe him. Not based off of anything that made sense or evidence. Your gut didn't even tell you that he was being honest, but you were just like, eh, fuck it all. I'm just going to lean into this thing, right?

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you can say that now with kind of honestly like, oh, well, I was. That's. This is, you know, a big part of this is kind of on me not to make yourself feel bad. But now it's a lot, it's a lot more empowering than just be like, well, fuck, how can I prevent this in the future? This won't be the, the last guy who lies to you and won't be the last person who you know is capable of things that you don't think you're capable of. But you still can prevent this stuff from happening by just paying attention and trusting your gut and not being afraid of the answers. Recognize that. Listen, unfortunately people do lie. And in a long distance relationship, you know, it gives people opportunities that people in not long distance relationships, you know, would have. Doesn't mean they're all cheating, but like just, just being aware of that or just being aware that like in the first six months you don't really know Anyone. So if someone, you know in the first year, when someone gives you weird behavior early on, it's really important to follow up on that, to not give them any benefit of the doubt because keep in mind they're, you know, especially in the first few months of dating, these people are total fucking strangers.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, and so they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. They don't deserve your trust. You can choose to trust someone when you start dating someone, but when something comes up, up, that raises a bunch of red flags. You don't choose to trust. Then you just like, all right, well, I, I, I was going to trust you. Something came up. I have to quote, unquote, investigate this or follow through on this and ask some questions. And at that point, you need to trust yourself more than you trust them. You need to trust your instincts when their answers don't make sense. You need to ask follow up questions. You need to dig deeper. And the more direct and more tougher the questions are, are the easier it should be to answer if they're not lying. You know, again, you're going to law school. You don't need me saying this to you. So, yeah, I mean, listen, like, you do not need closure from this guy, you know, And I want you more than anything to do off the call and stop telling yourself that he has something that you need. He doesn't. Right? Think about it. Right? Let's say you got your way. Let's say I was like, hey, listen, I have the power to make him answer your call and I'm going to give you what you asked for. Let's say I was a genie. And you're like, nick, I just really want to talk to him one more time, time, so I can get the closure that I need. I'm like, all right, all right, I'll make sure. I'll, I'll make that happen for you. What could he possibly say to you that would make you leave that conversation feeling better than you do now?

[Unnamed Caller]

I think that what I was thinking about this, it's not so much apology, it's just now I feel like almost the year and a half that I spent with him, all the memories are like tainted. It's either he was cheating or he was not or it was post cheating.

[Nick]

I understand that, but I want you to think about my question. And you're right, that's, that's true, that, that, that memory is tainted. Do you really want the past year and a half to be nothing but great memories? Like, listen, you're a young Enough person that a year and a half of your life. I'm sure you had fun times. I'm sure you had great experiences. You got. You got to see some cool shit. You went to some concerts, you got to travel. It wasn't a total waste. As far as the memory of you two. Yeah. I don't know. It's not what you plan on it being, right? Like, who gives a shit? But the point is, back to my original question. What could he have said to you that would have made you leave that conversation? Better than you felt going in and as if you could move on with a full heart without any, you know, what could he have. I mean, what could he have said?

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah, I guess maybe that he did care about me the last year and a half, but I guess it doesn't.

[Nick]

What would have that have done?

[Unnamed Caller]

He disrespected me.

[Nick]

Yeah. So let's role play that. He's like, oh, but I do care about you. And, like, our memories are. They mean so much to me. It's like, yeah, I was definitely cheating on you. But, like, don't you just. Just know that, like, those moments we had when we were together, they were really special. Would that have made you feel better?

[Unnamed Caller]

No, probably not. Because they were still. You're still cheating the whole time.

[Nick]

Exactly. So, like, that's what. Listen, it's. It's a rhetorical question. I'm asking you. The answer is, he couldn't have said to make you feel better. In the history of these closer conversations that everyone like you, thinks they need to have in order to move on, no one's ever had that conversation and been like, I'm glad I had that conversation. The only time they're glad they have that conversation is when it goes so badly. They're like, oh, my God. You know, honestly, I don't know why I wanted that conversation in the first place, but you were so off putting in this conversation, I finally realized I'm just totally glad to be done with you. That's best case. But you don't need to have that conversation with him in order to get to that place. You have all this information. You have a track record of behavior. At this point, all you need to do is be grateful you found out out that you didn't waste one more time with him. Thankfully, it doesn't sound like you opened the results with him.

[Unnamed Caller]

No, they're the next two days, actually, so I haven't even found out yet.

[Nick]

All right, well, good luck with that. Regardless, whatever happens, you won't have that Memory of sharing it with him. So that's a plus, right? Like, you have a reason to be sad and you have a reason to, you know, have this affect you because it's a shitty situation. But when you go down memory lane, don't make a bad situation worse by feeling like, I don't know, you lost something meaningful. You. You didn't.

[Unnamed Caller]

You.

[Nick]

You found out the truth that quite frankly, you were given months ago, but you just chose to ignore it. This is a second chance at knowing the truth. So it's an opportunity. So.

[Unnamed Caller]

And why do you think that people, like, just ghost after such a long time rather than.

[Nick]

I don't know, I mean, you're trying thing. Look, I. All I could do is guess. You and I aren't capable of doing what he did, right? Yes. Like, I don't know. Why did he do it? I don't know. He's a liar. Maybe he has some past childhood trauma. I don't know. Maybe he's just trying to impress his band, the people he works for. You know, maybe they're all young musicians who, like, think it's cool to have multiple girlfriends. I don't know why he did it. Point is, he did. And it has nothing to do with you, is more important. And your ego probably doesn't want to hear that. You want to feel like you're. You're so beautiful and so intelligent and so wonderful that even if he is a piece of shit with everyone else, he's going to treat you like the queen that you are. But that's just not how life works, right? Like, he's just. He is who he is. And you want to find someone who sees that in you. Because you're not for everyone. No one is. Right. You know, like, do you want to find someone who just like, thinks you're really pretty or was smart? Or do you want someone who just really sees you for who you are, really feels grateful to have you in your life, wants to make you a priority, does more than just fly you out occasionally, things like that. You know, I'd be willing to bet if you were to go down memory lane and nitpick your. Some of your memories, there's probably a lot of other moments where that were kind of funny that you brushed under the rug that you could go back and be like, well, next time someone does that, or when I ask this or when he does this, or yada, yada, yada, I should ask more questions. Because that might have meant they had another girl. Girlfriend.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah, totally.

[Nick]

Right. So, like, there are A million other things. You just chose to ignore that. Next time, don't choose to ignore, look into them. You know, you can't control other people. There are unfortunate people out there that, you know, they, I don't know why people do what they do. There's a million reasons why. Their own insecurities, their baggage maybe, you know, I don't know. None of it's really a valid excuse. But everyone has their reasons why they do shitty things. But what you can control is how you respond to these people. You can get better at setting your boundaries. You're communicating your expectations, trusting your gut, asking follow up questions when things don't seem right. You know, those are all things you can get better at. And now is an opportunity to do that. And those are the things I would reflect on right now so that when you do get back out there and date, you can still go after what you want and not necessarily be a cynic, but just be like armed with a little bit more awareness and knowledge to better protect yourself against people like him.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah, because I definitely don't want to be in this situation again.

[Nick]

And next time don't have a 30 hour conversation about something that is, isn't a hard ask. When he acts the way he did when your dog got sick like that, that should be kind of a deal breaker for you.

[Unnamed Caller]

Totally. Especially like she could have died.

[Nick]

Sure. Yeah. And even whether she did or didn't, like this was something he should make. He should have made you feel like you gave it like he gave a shit and he didn't. He made you feel, he made you feel like you're inconveniencing him over something that you made very clear was like important. Like, hey, like I, this is, I'm sad here and I want some emotional support from my boyfriend. You shouldn't even have to ask shit like that. And you did. And then when you did ask, he made you feel bad for it. That like, that should be enough for someone like you to say, what? Who is this person I'm dating? What is this type of behavior? And you wasted 30 hours of your life not even mentioning you got on a plane, went to go visit him to have this conversation. You didn't even get what you wanted out of that conversation and you still chose to continue the relationship. So clearly you need to do a much better job of holding people accountable for how they treat you. And again, you need to do a better job of trusting your gut. And when someone does something, you say to yourself, this is fucked up. Like, I would not Treat someone like this, and I don't know why I'm putting up with someone treating me like this, then you should just trust that you're right. And it doesn't matter what they say or how they respond. If they choose to try to gaslight you or manipulate you, you or just justify their actions, it's a waste of your time. Like, I'm not going to sit there and try to explain to you why you handled this poorly. And if you don't think that you did, then, like, that's all the information I need.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah, totally. Totally. Especially when it's something very important to me versus going out to a bar. Like, that is a very easy situation to be like, okay, well, it's more important to my girlfriend, something tragic happening. Or I could go drink beers at the bar with my friends. Like, that's a very easy thing to decide.

[Nick]

Yeah. And yet it wasn't easy for you. You know, you are looking for reasons why he may. Like, it's like, I don't know. This makes no sense to me, and I feel wrong. But I guess I'll hear him out because, you know, it was. It's easier for me to give him the benefit of the doubt than, you know, you know, you liked him. And I get it, you didn't want to break up with them, but that's how you protect yourself. Protecting yourself is to give people the opportunity to show you who they are. You can choose to trust early in a relationship, but when they start showing you who they are, you gotta follow up on that. You gotta ask questions. You have to be willing to meet someone, get excited about them, and then sadly be disappointed about them. But that's better in six to 12 months than three to five years.

[Unnamed Caller]

Totally.

[Nick]

You know what? If you had moved out for this guy, you know, he probably wouldn't know because he had other girlfriends, and that would have been kind of hard on him. But, like, you know, you get what I'm saying? And it seems like you understand all this, but, like, someone in your position, when something like this happens to them, it's very easy to victimize yourself and be like, I don't even know how I'm going to move forward. I can't trust anyone anymore. I. I can't believe someone lied to me. I was duped. I was conned. You kind of conned yourself. If I'm being honest, you know, I get it. He was charismatic and funny. There's plenty of charismatic people out there. There. Beware of the charismatic people. Like, you know, charismatic people are, you know, they're charismatic and so they are attractive to, I guess, a lot of people. Right. But you need to find substance, right? Because if you're looking for a fun weekend, you know, with fun people. He sounds like the perfect guy. He's fun, he's funny, he's charismatic. He'll introduce you to some cool people. You'll have a good time, you'll see a good show, great looking for a long term partner, someone who's your equal, who's like, like understands the effort and energy you've put into yourself and your career. He was clearly not this guy.

[Unnamed Caller]

No.

[Nick]

And his job kind of told you that, right? Like you're putting so much effort and energy into yourself. You need to meet someone. They don't have to be a lawyer. They don't even have to be rich. They just have to be passionate about what they do. They have to prioritize themselves in their career. They have to be willing to like, demonstrate and talk about them setting a goal and going after said go goal. And maybe, I don't know, maybe this was I, you know, but this doesn't sound like him. His goal was to hang out with fun and exciting people and he was willing to do whatever he had to do to do that and sell shirts. And then he tried to glorify it by like making it sound like he was so busy because he wanted to feel like his job was as important as what you were doing. And he oversold it totally.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah. It was essentially that it's. And I mean it kind of also. So you don't want to also judge people and be like, yeah, okay, well, we're in a relationship and I'm better. I mean, when you're in the relationship, you don't want to.

[Nick]

I know, but my point is like.

[Unnamed Caller]

Say that to someone but you don't.

[Nick]

Want to say it. And I get what you're saying, but like the reality is like you do, you should like, let's, you know, it's okay to judge people to yourself at least. We do it all the time. People, you know, like. And again, it's not, it's less about judging people. It's just like you need, you deserve someone who is that your love level. And he's not. This guy is not at your level. And because you're thinking of long term, you were able to, I guess, dumb yourself down to his level when you wanted to have a good time and have an exciting life and he was able to provide that and you were willing to ignore your long term needs as a human being and, you know, and what you needed from your partner. Again, I want to emphasize this less about him selling T shirts and more and more about the fact that, like, this wasn't a very ambitious person. It sounds like, you know, he didn't have a lot of long term goals.

[Unnamed Caller]

30 years old, you should be wanting.

[Nick]

To do more with your life and, and you do, and you are doing that. And so when you, you know, get out of the whole, like, you know, you're. You're still young, so it makes a lot of sense. But eventually, like, life will slow down. You'll get even more busy in your career and you won't. You'll give less shits because you have already done it about, like, traveling with a band. Cause you'd be like, yeah, I did that once. It was kind of fun. But honestly, they're just normal people. And they're honestly, like, kind of weird too. And like, it's not as cool as it sounded when I was younger. Right. And he'll still be doing that lame shit, you know, and if you were in a relationship with this guy, it would just, like, you would get a bigger and bigger ick by the guy who's like, still selling T shirts into his 40s just so he can hang out with a band that's not as cool as they were 10 years ago.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah, I guess it's like, it's fun at like 22, but I was kind of getting sick of it when I went out. It really wasn't for me. It wasn't that cool. And I was, like, kind of tired of it. Kind of. I was ready to kind of settle down and move. And that's kind of where I was headed it. So, yeah, that's totally kind of where it probably branched off that where the breakup initially happened is I was ready to start moving in, making steps, getting married. And he wants to go drink at the bar, go screaming at the bar with his friends, and go get drunk every night.

[Nick]

He also wants a girl who thinks what he does is so cool for his ego. Yeah, well, because what he does actually, when you break it down, isn't. And he knows that. I bet when you met him, you thought he was so cool. Totally.

[Unnamed Caller]

I did. Absolutely.

[Nick]

And you made him feel that way and you gassed him up and you looked at him with these puppy dog eyes. And the more you got to know him, the more you're like, I don't know. He's kind of like, am I dating a loser? I don't know.

[Unnamed Caller]

You Know, that's how it's funny. That's how the other girl. Because now, like, we've talked and we've become friends, and she said the same thing. Like, it's like, oh, like, I'm gonna visit you in your city. Like, all of that. We were both kind of like that. It was kind of, you're sold this, like, rockstar lifestyle, and then you take it back. And he wasn't actually the rock star. He was selling T shirts for them.

[Nick]

But I. If I. If I were you, I would want you to have a little bit more frustration with yourself and less frustration with him.

[Unnamed Caller]

I do feel that. Because I do feel like looking back, I hate that I was so in love that I ignored it because I shouldn't have, and I should have just listened to the girl more.

[Nick]

Nonsense. What were you so in love with? Out of curiosity.

[Unnamed Caller]

I mean, the whole time he did. When we were together, he treated me well. Like, we would go and he. Like, he was my best friend. It was very much a best friend relationship. And it was. It was just nice times together. And he was very caring to me. We got along very well. Like, it was. It was very much someone that I hadn't connected with like that before.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Unnamed Caller]

So there was good times, to be fair.

[Nick]

Okay, that's valid. My point still stands. You know, someone could be nice, easy to talk to, but you still have to pay attention to the red flags.

[Unnamed Caller]

Totally. And I think that's one of my issues, that I wanted it so badly that I ignored it because I wanted it to work out.

[Nick]

Yeah. So there's a lot to learn here. I look back on my breakup when I was 28, was, you know, the person I got engaged to at then and, you know, certainly was devastated when we broke up, and it was hard to get over about six months after that. I quickly thought this was the best thing that's ever happened to me, you know, without being cliche, because I learned a lot about myself. I reflected about myself. I finally looked in the mirror and kind of act like, what. What role did I play in this? So to speak. Right. What could I learn from this? You know, And I really much. I very much changed my approach to dating, you know, and so I think there's a lot to learn here for you. Right. And, you know.

[Unnamed Caller]

Absolutely.

[Nick]

I don't think you need closure from him. I mean, you got plenty of closure, hopefully, on this conversation, but I do think there's.

[Unnamed Caller]

I did. Yeah.

[Nick]

Plenty to learn from here. And going forward, you're a lot more armed hopefully when you go out there and date, because, again, you know, there's. People do lie. People do shitty things, but they usually show you and they usually tell you somehow. You just have to be willing to pay attention and listen and not want to force something that, you know, like, it's like, yeah, they're nice, but, you know, pay attention to the butt.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah. And I think that it's also. With long distance, it's. It's easier for people to hide it because they only need to do it in person for so long. So it was. It allowed him to maybe keep up the facade longer than if we were in person all the time, for sure, because it would be two weeks at a time that he could just ignore one of us and then go for the other. So it was, I guess, easier to hide the red flags longer, not having to see me in person all the.

[Nick]

Time a little bit. But, like, like I said, this girl, what, a year ago reached out to you and said, I'm in a relationship.

[Unnamed Caller]

With this guy three months before we broke up.

[Nick]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Unnamed Caller]

So it wasn't that long. It was only April, and we broke up in August.

[Nick]

But you still completely ignored her.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

All right, well, hopefully this was helpful.

[Unnamed Caller]

It was super helpful. And, I mean, it feels better. And I feel like I don't need to continue to, like, message or try to reach out or do anything like that, because truly, what could you say.

[Nick]

Yeah, truly, you're allowed to be sad. That's a normal response to something that obviously was disappointing, and I'm sure on some levels, traumatic for you to find out. But the best thing you could do going forward is to very much control your thoughts. When you have those thoughts and feelings of sadness, when you find yourself missing memories of him and glorifying him in your mind, you have to actively tell yourself to stop it. And then you have to actively remind yourself of the shitty things he did. You have to ask yourself, you know, that's like, you really do. You have to kind of have these conversations with yourself because it's your default is to go down that memory lane and to glorify the relationship. This is what we all do. And so you kind of have to. Have to program yourself through just kind of these conscious conversations and just be like, hey, stop it. He did this to me. He did this. I should have listened. I had all the signs. All the conversations you're having with yourself right now are keeping you stuck. You're asking yourself questions that you actually know the answers to, but you're not willing to answer them. These are all the things that make you wonder why this happened or makes you think that you need to get a hold of them, you know, because, like, people shouldn't ghost and I need to have one more last conversation with them. Like, no, you don't need to waste 30 more hours for him to say God only knows what. This is not someone who ever respected you or deserved your time of attention. He wasn't your equal. He did you a favor, and now it's time to actually see it for what it is, accept it, learn from it, and move forward.

[Unnamed Caller]

Totally. Yeah. There's. There's no going back, so there's no point.

[Nick]

Point. All right, well, now just. It's less about the actual. To me, it's more about not actual going back. It's about changing your perspective going forward. I want in the next couple days when you get these results, you know, hopefully you get good news, but I want it to be about the result. I don't want a moment during that day of you waking up being like, I wish I was sharing it with someone. I wish. You know, and reminiscing your mind how you wish you could have called him to tell him you passed. No, fuck this guy. You know? Like, I don't.

[Unnamed Caller]

You know, that's how I want to feel.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah, that's how you should feel.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah. Especially it's like, as much as everything in this situation sucked, I wouldn't have wrote the bar if not. So that is something that I could celebrate and take from this relationship is that I have a huge career milestone now coming from this.

[Nick]

Yeah, absolutely. And you can share it with probably a lot of other people you can call, you know, family, friends, whatever.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yourself.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, you did this. You know, you don't really need to share it with anyone else. I mean, I hope you do, but you don't. You to.

[Unnamed Caller]

I will, but. Yes, exactly. It's for myself mainly. It's for me to move. It's for me to do better. It's for me to advance my career. And he was just like, something on this side that would have been there.

[Nick]

Yeah. And, you know, he found a girlfriend out of it.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah, totally.

[Nick]

There you go. Now, if you do continue to talk with this girl, do not talk about him. One of you two probably will. At least at first. Keep the other person in your life to give yourself the green light to complain about him, Talk about him, listen, do what you need to do to get over him. But just remember, anytime you talk about him or think about him, is energy you are giving him that he's not asking for. It's energy you could be putting into something else, someone else, you know. So just remember that when you talk to her, don't talk about him.

[Unnamed Caller]

I'm going to give her that advice as well because that's something good for both of us.

[Nick]

Yeah. Truly. Yeah. And I just think a lot of times in these situations early on it's, you know, you guys obviously understand each other. You have a common gripe. It's just very easy for you guys to get on the phone and talk about him. Even if you're talking, it's not productive.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah. It just pushes us back. Really?

[Nick]

Yeah. Okay, cool. All right, well, take care.

[Unnamed Caller]

Thank you so much.

[Nick]

All right, good luck.

[Unnamed Caller]

Very helpful.

[Nick]

Let us know if you passed or not. Okay, I will.

[Unnamed Caller]

Hopefully the next two days, it's like this week. So I've been waiting since July, so it's taken long enough.

[Nick]

How do you feel? You feel confident about it?

[Unnamed Caller]

I walked out thinking I passed and I taught myself because I wrote the Canadian Bar and I taught myself the US Bar by myself. So I, I feel good about it, as good as I could, hopefully feel. So best case scenario, I pass and never have to look at it again.

[Nick]

All right, well, hope hopefully that's the case and if not, you'll do it again and you will certainly eventually pass.

[Unnamed Caller]

Totally. It's just another test over and over again.

[Nick]

Yeah. There you go. All right, well, good luck with everything. Keep investing yourself. Start looking at dating your equals because you definitely weren't. You're not the 22 year old girl anymore who gets excited about like shiny things.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah. And musicians and all of that. It's not that fun. It's like you saw how the sausage just made it. It's not as cool as it seems.

[Nick]

Truly. And you know, listen, I don't know. Listen, if you meet a professional athlete or another entertainment trainer, buyer beware. Just know that is a lifestyle that is, that is a breeding ground for this type of behavior. I'm not saying that everyone in this space does like that, but, you know, like, if you are going to date an athlete or a musician, better be prepared to ask a lot of tough questions and know that these guys are used to facing these types of questions. And when things smell off, they almost certainly are.

[Unnamed Caller]

And they're more likely cheating than a different type of professional would be.

[Nick]

Sure. I mean, anyone can cheat in any profession. It's just like, like just know that this space, you know, gives these people a ton of opportunities. To do that. So. Yeah. Again, just don't be afraid to question people that's not you. I don't know, being whatever you think it might be. Yeah.

[Unnamed Caller]

It's not being judgmental or rude or anything like that. It's just asking questions together.

[Nick]

Someone asked me a long time ago on my questions. Nick on Instagram. What's the difference between, you know, trusting your gut and, you know, being crazy or paranoid? You know, trusting your gut is following up on situations that, like, they present to you. Things come your way. Sure. Things show up at your front door and you're just asking follow up questions for things that don't make sense. Being crazy is looking for things to be mad about, you know? Yeah. Making things up in your head when they're actually not doing something, but when they do something that seems a little bit off, it's not crazy to check in ever.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah. And that's maybe something that why I didn't look into this April situation more, because I didn't trust my gut. I just thought, well, it's crazy. He said this. He said that I should believe my boyfriend and obviously I should have trusted my gut there.

[Nick]

Yeah. I mean, it was kind of crazy that you ignored her.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, think about it. Like, what was. She would have had to literally be crazy.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Or he's lying. And this is also somebody claimed to also be friends with. So it's like you're. Are you. You're friends with a crazy person. Person. I mean, if I were him, if he was telling the truth, wouldn't he be really mad at her? He would have moved differently. And when you get in these situations, ask yourself, what would I have done? What would I have done if someone reached out to my boyfriend and said, I'm in a relationship with him and made up some crazy rumor? How would have I moved? What would I have done? To make sure, knowing that you did nothing wrong, that this person on the other end was just making up a story out of nowhere, what would you have done? I'm guessing you wouldn't have done what he did.

[Unnamed Caller]

I would have called that person. I would have yelled at them. I would have freaked out. I would have, like, made it known they're a liar.

[Nick]

Yeah. And then I would have made sure those two interacted. Be like, no, tell them the truth. Do it. You know, not like. And did he do that?

[Unnamed Caller]

No. That's a good point. He had just ghosted her and she just kind of went away because she was nervous.

[Nick]

Exactly.

[Unnamed Caller]

She's younger than I am.

[Nick]

Hoping she'd move on. Of course. She's younger. You know, he's. He. All he's doing is just recycling, you know, again, manipulating girls and just. Yeah, again, he's looking for young girls to impress.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah. And get validation for his T shirt sales.

[Nick]

So, you know, again, lesson learned. You don't want to judge a book by its cover. Has nothing to do necessarily with, you know, there's exceptions to every rule. Doesn't mean, like every. I mean, obviously I'm. I'm married to someone a lot younger than me, you know, but like, again, how do they operate? How do they move? It is fair to ask follow up questions because if people aren't hiding, they don't have a problem with you checking in when they're hiding, they get defensive. They get like, why are you asking me this? It's just like, I don't know, like, people are happy to explain. What. You have nothing to worry about.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yeah, I guess that he did, like, explain for months. Like, I would call in the morning, be like, I'm having anxiety over this and be like, well, it was just one kiss. Like, please don't freak out. Like, just groveling about it.

[Nick]

So that's not explaining. That's downplaying and then asking you to ignore your instincts. That's what he did. Please don't freak out. It was nothing. Just trust me. That's not explaining it. That's not going out of his way. It's not what you would have done. That's dismissing and hoping, and that's not it.

[Unnamed Caller]

Hoping it goes away. Putting your head in the sand.

[Nick]

Yeah. So next time, stuff like this, what would you do again? Like, it's all you have to do is be willing to be disappointed. That's it. That's your.

[Unnamed Caller]

Yes.

[Nick]

That's your shield. Because that's. That's what got you into this place in the first place. You were unwilling to hear the truth because you just wanted to everything to be fine. You wanted him to be Mr. Perfect, even though you already knew he wasn't. He was selling T shirts, for crying out loud.

[Unnamed Caller]

It's true.

[Nick]

All right, well, good luck out there. Let us know if you've tested the bar, and hopefully this was helpful.

[Unnamed Caller]

Thank you so much. This was absolutely helpful.

[Nick]

All right, well, take care.

[Unnamed Caller]

Thank you.

[Nick]

All right, bye bye.

[Unnamed Caller]

And nice to meet you.

[Nick]

You too.

[Unnamed Caller]

Bye bye.

[Nick]

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[Jordan]

Hi, my name is Jordan, I'm 28 and I'm just calling to ask about my boyfriend breaking up with me after I tried to break up with him.

[Nick]

10 times and isn't that good news?

[Jordan]

So it is good news. It was just really shocking and out.

[Nick]

Of nowhere you're upset about it now because he, he broke up with you.

[Jordan]

Well, so I tried to break up with him a bunch of times because he treated me horribly. But then for the three weeks between, he was super awesome. And then out of nowhere, like five days before our vacation and the day after he told me to get early bird check in, he broke up with me after work one day and just said he didn't like me anymore.

[Nick]

Okay, well, I'm sorry. What are you struggling most with about this?

[Jordan]

Probably just that it was just like he was begging me to get stay with him and not leave him. And then suddenly there was no. It wasn't like we're fighting or anything like that. It was like I just don't like you as much as you like me.

[Nick]

Well, I mean it sounds like your ego is very brutal Bruised right now.

[Jordan]

Yes. And I knew you were gonna say that.

[Nick]

Okay, well, at least you knew, you know, there's that. I mean, speaking of what you think I was gonna say, like, what do you think I'm gonna say?

[Jordan]

I think you were gonna say you should have been broken up anyway, and you already tried to break up with him, so this just makes it easier. He's not begging for you back this time.

[Nick]

Yeah, well, there's definitely some truth there. I mean, that being said, like, what are you struggling with the most? Like, what's driving you nuts? Why are you having a hard time getting to the place where, you know you need to be? And, you know, I'm gonna to say.

[Jordan]

It, I guess it's just kind of getting over. Like, we had never gone. We'd been dating over two and a half years. We'd never gone on a vacation together at all. And then we had this trip planned to a place I've always wanted to go really bad. And we didn't even plan it that long ago, so it's not, like, sticking it out because it's been planned for five months. It's just crazy that right before we were about to leave and actually we had a smaller vacation plan the next day. This is, like, a side note, but this just really pisses me off. He makes way more money than me, and I had it all on my Airbnb and all of that. And he, like, didn't even offer to refund even though it was past the cancellation date. And so it's like, I don't really care about the money or anything. It just. Everything was like a big fuck you.

[Nick]

All right, well, I can tell you that you're not really mad at him. You're mad at yourself. Tell me, all the other times you say you're going to break up with him, what was it? The bad behavior that he was demonstrating where you were like, I. I don't deserve to be treated this way.

[Jordan]

He basically was just, like, super selfish. And it was even weirder because he would say, I'm so selfish. I'm a weak man. Like, I'm a bad man. And I'd be like, okay, so what are you gonna do about it? And he would just be like, I'm gonna change. And I was like, okay, I guess we'll just try this out. And I kept telling him every time, which is my fault. Okay, I'm not gonna do this again. And then I just kept on doing it. But, for example, like, this is, like, a really severe example, but I had Someone in the hospital, in my family for, like, nine months, and we'd already been together for, like a year and a half at this point. And he would literally get pissed off that I would want to stay the night at the hospital all the time and we don't live together or anything. And he would just be like, this is just too much for me. And I was like, what do you mean? It's too. Like, I still hung out with him all the time and everything. So it was just a bunch of big, selfish things and little selfish things also.

[Nick]

Well, like I said, I think deep down you're frustrated because you're. You're mad at yourself because you do, you know, better, you know, and you knew. Then you tried to break up with him, but instead of following through with knowing that, like, dating a guy who honestly, like, talks and even admits to himself that he's weak, it's like you decided in that moment to take it as a pity party on his part so you could be like, oh, you're being too hard on yourself, and that you could be like the supportive girlfriend. In reality, he was just being honest with you, you know?

[Brooke]

Right.

[Nick]

And now that he's broken up with you and the manner in which he broke up with you and the timing that he broke up with you, there's this couple extra of little, like, fuck yous know, little kind of jabs on the side, and your ego is just like, fuck, man, I wouldn't feel like I did now. Like, it's like you're mad at yourself for allowing him to steal. Feel your opportunity to feel empowered by standing up for yourself. When you try to stand up for yourself and say, I'm not going to let someone treat me this way, fuck you, you're out. Instead, you chose to believe something you knew deep down you shouldn't believe, and he played you for a fool, and you're kind of mad at it. You know, honestly, I didn't know you.

[Jordan]

Were going to say that.

[Nick]

I believe you, though.

[Unnamed Caller]

That's true.

[Nick]

You didn't think I was going to say that?

[Jordan]

I just. I thought of all the things you would possibly say because I listened to all of. And that one didn't come to my head.

[Nick]

There you go. All right, well, I'm glad I still got it, you know? But, yes, that's. I mean, deep down, that's what's going on, it sounds like to me.

[Jordan]

Well, the worst thing to me, I still even am, like, thinking about it at all is because it wasn't like, oh, we're Fighting or anything like that. It was like, I've never even said I love you to him in over two and a half years, and he's literally, like, just out of nowhere. You like me way more than I like you, okay?

[Nick]

But this is.

[Jordan]

And I'm like, who gives a shit?

[Nick]

This is all your ego talking. So, like, what you need to do, it's like you can recognize that you've listened to this show. Like, oh, Nick's gonna tell me it's my ego. But, like, it is, right? And now you need to do something about your ego, because right now, everything you've shared with me in this call tells me that you. You very much are allowing your ego to drive your dating and relationship decisions. And that's never a recipe for success. You are basing your decisions on who you should invest your time and energy with based off your ego, not your heart. You're not asking yourself, what makes me happy? What makes me feel good? You know, am I dating someone who makes me a priority? It treats me a certain way? Who treats the people I love a certain way? Do I feel lucky to have them in my life? It didn't sound like he did much of any of that, right? He played some games. He sounded like a mess. He did give you an opportunity to, you know, feel like you could fix him. You know, he made you feel bad for him, you know, type of thing. But there, every step of the way, your ego was like, hey, we could do this, we could do that. This sounds off, but, like, there's an opportunity here for us to feel special in the long run. And every step of the way, you chose that path, right? And so now, you know, you can't do anything about him. But you have to get better at, you know, controlling your ego, you know, because some of these things that you're caring about now, who gives a fuck?

[Jordan]

That's true. I guess I shouldn't care about it, but I'm just. Well, the other thing is I was pretty much fine. It sounds weird, but I sent that email like, a week ago. And since then, I've been fine, except for we're both in the same career, and, like, our town isn't small at all or city, but a career. You're going to see each other all the time. And so I went to an event for this career, and he was there. And then I was miserable again for, like, two days.

[Nick]

Days.

[Jordan]

And there's literally. I know there's always a way to avoid it, but, like, in this situation, there's really not a Way to just never see him again.

[Nick]

So what? Who cares? You need. Well, yeah, right now it doesn't feel that way because you are. Right now it sounds like kind of a victim to your ego. Right? All this man had to say, despite telling you how much he loves you throughout your relationship, and you never reciprocating that. All he had to do is say something superficial. You have no idea whether. Whether he meant it or not. He just said it and you chose to, like, take it as truth. And that. That is you like me way more than I like you with such. It's kind of just a mean, dirty thing to say. And he said, he sold it, he pitched it, he delivered it, you took it as fact. And now your ego is like losing its fucking mind because you're just like, did I? Am I? Is that what he really thinks? Can I. You know, and it's like, who gives a fuck? Who gives a fuck whether he actually thinks you like, you know? You know, it's a great opportunity to show him that you don't give a fuck. Showing up to these places where you know he will be and treat them like someone you went to high school with 20 years ago, and you kind of remember their name and you don't want to be rude, so you go and say hi. You give them the casual like, hello, and you don't, like, really care. And you. You don't change your behavior and yada, yada, yada, you don't let your ego get the best of you and worry about if they're dating someone else and how that makes you look and yada, yada, yada. Like, the best way to show him that you actually don't give a about him and you didn't like him more than you is to show him by that you. You like that you don't give a fuck. To be indifferent around him, to not care, you know?

[Jordan]

Right.

[Nick]

That's how you do it.

[Jordan]

The other thing is, I know this is just another ego thing, but it was just crazy. I was trying to follow your advice to everyone else by saying, like, oh, you don't need to go get your sweatshirt or whatever at their house. So. But I had actually a ton of stuff there. So just right after he initially said it, I was like, okay, I need to come get all my stuff right now so that this isn't dragged out. And I got there probably 20 minutes after him, and it was all sitting out in the driveway. So he watched me through the window while I was loading it in my car. And I thought, what you would do was be like, okay, got my stuff. Just never talked to him again. But of course, I didn't follow through with that. So then I knocked on the door and was like, hey, like, that was really weird that you just watched me through the window loading my stuff. And that's when the whole conversation. Because at first all he said is, I think we should break up. And I just didn't say a single word and got out of the car and left. But then that's when all of this happened. So I guess it isn't easy ego thing, because it just. It was all so rude. I couldn't believe it.

[Nick]

Yeah, I know, but that's the thing. It's just like, there's a. There's a time and a place to stand up for ourself and. But like, this guy's just playing games with you. It's all he's doing, you know?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And. Yeah. And sometimes you have to be willing to. To like, shut your ego down and not convince yourself that you need to, like, call him out and put him in his place and let him know what's up and blah. That's what he wanted. He wanted the reaction. He wanted to know it bothered you. And that's all you. You know, and you got to understand that's. That's where egos always fail us, is like, especially in these situations, especially breakup situations, what we really want to do is to. And. And the thing that will. With these people the most is to not give a. To. To immediate. Let them know that we're over it, that they don't impact us, that they. That no matter if they're nice or they're not nice, we're not affected by them anymore. They no longer have control or power over us. That is how we. With these people even more. And. And every step of the way. I mean, he does. He barely does anything, and you. He gets such a reaction out of you, you know?

[Jordan]

Right.

[Nick]

You take everything.

[Jordan]

He did nothing literally.

[Nick]

You know, you take. Everything he says is gospel, and he's just saying just to say it, just to get a reaction.

[Jordan]

But what if he. But I know what you're gonna say. It doesn't matter. But I'm just saying I literally feel like he was being like he wasn't. He was, like, trying not to hurt my feelings. Like, he was sobbing and saying stuff like, I wish that I wouldn't make you sad, blah, blah, blah. Even though he was saying those, like, catch phrases that are like, listen, oh, I really enjoyed our time together.

[Nick]

The only Thing he ever said to you that I'm pretty sure was honest, that he's a weak man. And then instead of like believing him, you pitied him, right? And then going forward after that, that was kind of his get out of jail free card because he kind of always felt sorry for him, you know? Why did he cry and feel bad? Because he is weak, you know, because he didn't want to feel like the bad guy. I don't know. And one moment he says one thing and the other thing he does another. He's not consistent with his behavior. What sucks for you in addition to, like, being a victim of your ego, I'm guessing, you know, based off what you're telling me that you love. I don't know, a little bit of drama, a little bit of excitement, a little bit of a mess, you know, because everything about your telling is. It's entertaining, you know what I'm saying? It keeps you invested. It's that toxic simulation I've talked about over the years. How old are you again? 28. 29.

[Jordan]

28?

[Nick]

28. I don't know. You're still young, but you're probably too old to deal with this type of behavior. And you're certainly old enough to be able to suss out this type of behavior. And you're old enough to know better and you're old enough to. While we all, all get excited for drama, even though we all love to tell people that we don't like the drama, you like the drama, it's fine. We all do to a certain extent. But you have to, like, just look yourself in the mirror and been like, why do I keep investing in these people that only bring drama into my life? And am I actually ready to meet someone who, quite honestly, over time might be a little boring, but I'll feel secure?

[Jordan]

Okay, this is another point about that. So I don't know what you're going to say to this. So in like August, that was like a month before we broke up. I am a rover dog sitter and one of the men that brought a dog was really cool. And so the day we broke up, I got on Hinge, but with like a fake name and no pictures. Just because I was like, I just want to see who exists out there.

[Nick]

Yeah, makes sense.

[Jordan]

And what do you know, the first person on there, I just didn't want anyone to see me on there like that day, you know, but the first person on there's him. So I hurried up and put my pictures and changed it to my real name and liked him. And he immediately messaged me. And the thing is, I know it sounds like I'm, like, pining over this other man. It's more the ego thing. But now I, like, actually like this other guy, and I feel like that's bad if you just got out of that long of a relationship.

[Nick]

Well, why do you think it's bad?

[Jordan]

It just. I guess it doesn't matter how it looks, but it just looks bad to, like, hop straight. Because I always used to tell people not to do that. Like, to just be single.

[Nick]

Who are you worried about looking bad to?

[Jordan]

Actually, I guess just myself, maybe.

[Nick]

If that's the answer, then maybe your fear of looking bad really is maybe your gut trying to tell you something. Yeah. You know, I think two things can be true at the same time. I think you can be genuinely interested in this guy, excited about this guy, flattered that he loved, liked you back, interested in getting to know him better. That doesn't mean you're clearly affected by your ex. So to say that you don't care, you're over it and ready to move forward. You're obviously not right. And I don't doubt that you're actually excited about this guy. But I think what your gut is telling you by this fear of looking bad is to know that maybe deep down, while you are excited about him, you're not ready that the fear of. And maybe you're afraid of looking bad in front of him because you're going to go on a date and knowing that you shouldn't be talking about exes, kind of subconsciously project that maybe you're not over them. I don't know. That's definitely possible.

[Jordan]

Does it change anything? That we've already hung out every day for three weeks?

[Nick]

I mean, I don't know. Then why, Then why? Why? I don't. It's not. It is what it is. I don't know. I'm not here to judge it. Why did we spend 20 minutes talking about some guy that is in your past when you've been hanging out every day with this new guy?

[Jordan]

That's why I'm like, I don't know, because I. Whenever I sent that email, I was distraught. But then, like, ever. So that event that I saw him at was Thursday. And aside from that, since I sent that email, I don't know why, but I haven't been distraught at all besides just that one night. And so now I'm kind of like, am I just fine right now or am I going to start feeling like how I was feeling you know, when I sent that email again, I just don't even know.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, maybe you need to slow down a little bit. Why are you hanging out with this guy every day? Well, just because he asks, you can say no. I know, but I can play hard to get.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Nick]

I mean, are you.

[Jordan]

I guess.

[Nick]

You've known this guy for how long?

[Jordan]

Well, only for three weeks, like, talking to him. But I watched his dog in, like, the middle of August.

[Nick]

Listen, I just think, like, sometimes early on, perception matters a little bit. Right? And I'm not saying you should fake it or pretend to be someone you're not. And listen, none of us are as busy as we like to pretend. And it sounds like despite all the other things you have going on in your life, that you have a few extra hours a day as a single woman. I mean, I'm assuming you don't have kids or.

[Unnamed Caller]

No.

[Nick]

Yeah. So your responsibilities are light. So outside of whatever you do for work, you have some free time. And right now you're choosing to have that free free time with him, but you're also kind of just painting this picture of, like, hyper available for him, you know?

[Jordan]

Right.

[Nick]

And, like, not like, even though he's.

[Jordan]

The one that has to hang out.

[Nick]

Every day, doesn't matter. No, he's also available. But, like, you're just always saying, yes, throw him. Throw him for a loop and be like, I don't know, I got something going on. You being too busy for him will not make him not like you.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Nick]

You know, I mean, eventually you want to give them time and attention, make them feel like a priority, like anyone would want to feel in a dating relationship. But you don't need to be hanging out with someone new every day. You're not slow playing it, you know? Now you're at risk of moving too fast, playing house, getting caught up in the moment, advancing the relationship faster than you actually should, making it making each other feel like you've known each other for so long, when in reality there's still a lot you need to learn about. About each other.

[Unnamed Caller]

Right.

[Jordan]

Well, also, probably a week and a half ago, we were gonna go to happy hour with the ex boyfriend, Common friends. And my friend showed up to lunch when I was with this guy and was like, she was supposed to meet us, though. And she was like, hey, I'm really sorry, but you can't come to happy hour anymore. He's going like, the ex. And I was like, okay, that's crazy. So obviously I was really mad mad. So I went back Outside with the new guy. And I lied because he was like, why are you so pissed right now? And I was like, oh, she invited my ex. Which that wasn't the lie. But then he. I was nervous. I didn't want him to be like, oh, you guys just broke up. So I was like, oh, yeah, I broke up with him like a month ago because I just looked bad. And so now I'm like, should I say something like that that's not true?

[Nick]

And what's the truth? Where's the lie?

[Jordan]

He broke up with me, and it was only like a week before. Before he said that.

[Nick]

I mean, I don't know. I think it's wrong that you lied. I think it's another example of just how obsessed you are with how you look to people. You had the right to be upset in that moment. She, your friend, uninvited you. Your friend didn't even give you the opportunity to be like, I don't care. You know, Right? If he cares that that's his problem. He cannot show up. You know, you had the right to feel that and say that to your friend. And then you could have gone back to this new guy and been like, I'm super eerie, irritated. I don't know. Me and my boyfriend, we broke up. You don't have to get into who broke up with who, but I don't really give a shit. Obviously, I'm excited about you, but she really told me I can't come because, I don't know, I guess he has an issue with it. You could have just said that. There's nothing for you to be embarrassed about. But you're so hypersensitive about looking stupid that you will come up with a story of how stupid you might look when honestly, the truth doesn't make you look stupid at all.

[Jordan]

Okay, I guess that's true. I didn't think about that.

[Nick]

He looks stupid for making his friend, your mutual friend, uninvite you because apparently, again, the weak man that he is can't handle your presence, which, by the way, speaks to how much he guess still likes you or is affected by you. Honestly, like, that's why how you're so. You can't even see the obvious signs. Your ego doesn't want to see the opportunity. You can feel better, right? You can be like, oh, wow, he's still bothered by me. Okay. I guess. Like, okay. And meanwhile, you have a guy that you're, like, into that you say, like, that should have been such a validating feeling that it still rubs his. Rubbed him the wrong way.

[Jordan]

Right? I didn't think about that. I thought it was more like they were going to be uncomfortable, so they didn't want us both to come, but they didn't say that.

[Nick]

So who's they? I mean, why would they be uncomfortable?

[Jordan]

They're just their mutual friends.

[Nick]

Why does he get the call? Why does he get to go?

[Jordan]

That's a good point. I don't know.

[Nick]

I mean, how close are you with his friend?

[Jordan]

Well, the one that is my best friend that I was talking to, but the other ones are like our old coworkers. And, like, both of us move. Me and that guy worked together at the same place as these other people, and then we both left to separate jobs. And so it's like the other ones are like old co workers, but then that one's my best friend.

[Nick]

Your best friend uninvited you.

[Jordan]

She didn't say it directly like uninvited, but it was like, hey, I'm really sorry, but this guy invited him. And so. Yeah, yeah, like that. And I was like, okay. And then she started feeling really guilty about it and was like, I'll just go with you, but I don't want someone to be forced to hang out with me when they want to go to something else, you know? So she ended up going. And then. Yeah, it was. Just didn't talk about it since.

[Nick]

Well, talk about it. I. I think you really need to get over you. You have an ego problem for sure.

[Jordan]

Great.

[Nick]

At least, listen. At least you can identify the problem, and that's something you can control, that's for sure.

[Jordan]

How do you get over that kind of problem?

[Nick]

You just got to be a little more honest with yourself. You have to, like, take a step back. I don't know, have. Phone, a friend, have a therapist, someone you trust call in. I mean, it's not sustainable. Call here every time. But part of it is just like, again, kind of understanding the principles of, like, how our egos work or what drives us, what triggers us, or just people in general. You know, it's just all the things that you are saying and doing and how you've reacted are, you know, are normal. Are normal things. In fact, Fact, it's. It's more common than the way people should act. Right. And I've made all these mistakes that you're making now, but I got tired of making those mistakes, and I just started, I don't know, just reflecting a little bit more and, you know, applying the common sense. I've learned over the years the difference between, you know, Me and you, right? I guess for argument's sake, it's not like my ego went away, right? It's still there and it still has the same toxic and intrusive thoughts that it had years ago, similar to yours. The difference is, is that when my ego pops up and waves its flag and wants attention from me, I feel the same feelings you feel. I feel that inadequacy or that fear or anxiety or what are people saying and worrying about and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Those, those all still happen for me. I can recognize that. I can, I can time out and I can say, nick, wait, like, why do you. I can ask myself the questions I'm asking you. Why do I care? What am I really up upset about? Wait a second. Why is he so bothered by I'm there. Would you have gone knowing he was there?

[Jordan]

Yeah, because I would have just sat on the other side. I would rather go and be on the other side of the table, like not sitting next to him and hang out than be not invited in the mall. Hang out without me.

[Nick]

Okay? I would love you to just go because you don't give a fuck, but you have to fake it till you make it, right? And so I guess again, back to my point. It's just like the ego is never going to get go away. The only thing that hopefully happens for you is you just get better at slowing down a little bit, checking in with yourself, asking yourself these questions I'm asking you and apply the common sense you've learned over the years to say, well, yeah, I feel this way, but why do I feel this way? Is it possible for me to feel another way? Should I look at this situation differently? The maturity I've demonstrated in my life and honestly, like the, you know what this show ultimately is all about is changing your perspective on a situation. That's all I do. Anyone who calls me with a problem, I'm not really giving them necessarily advice or what to do. I certainly don't diagnose people. I'm not a therapist. I'm just suggesting an alternative point of view and one that doesn't involve validating your ego. Right. Or one that doesn't include feeling sorry for yourself and living in your pity party. I'm just offering alternative ideas and approaches to view a situation a little more honestly without involving your ego. And you can learn that on your own. That's what I'm honestly hoping the people listening to the show learn and kind of apply themselves. That's all I'm doing. I didn't eliminate my Ego. I didn't get rid of it. It's not. I don't. It's not as if these same insecurities and thoughts and feelings that you have right now, it's not. They. They still show up. I just address them differently than you do now. I can check myself quicker than you do now. You know, I can do it on my own, you know, and when I can't do it on my own, I have a therapist, you know, or a friend. Find someone who can give you the tough love that I'm giving you now. You know, it's like if you can't do it on your own, find people who are capable of being honest with you that have a little bit more emotional maturity than maybe you have right now or other people or your other friends. It's never going to go away. It's just. It as good at, you know, you just have to teach yourself how to control it better.

[Unnamed Caller]

I know.

[Jordan]

Well, now I know that you're telling.

[Nick]

Me, yeah, so give yourself a little bit of grace. But now you just have to be willing to learn from it. And if, you know, if. If you. If we get off this phone call and then you just kind of go about your life, then obviously you don't care. It doesn't bother you that much. You know, if you don't do anything about this and choose to learn, then that will tell you that ultimately you just kind of love the drama and part of. And I'm not saying that's the case, but if you do. If you don't actually do the work and actually change and check in with yourself and try to check your ego, even though, like. And it'll take time to get good at it, but, like, you have to make an attempt, then all this call is, is you continuing the drama.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Nick]

You know, but hopefully that's not what it is. Hopefully you're actually tired of feeling this way. Hopefully you're actually, like, kind of exhausted and wish that, you know, and hopefully you can recognize that you shouldn't feel this way based off of how this guy treated you. And you're tired of letting a guy like him make you feel the way that you feel now. And hopefully that you're willing to learn and apply what you know, we. We've talked about.

[Jordan]

Okay, I know you're gonna say it doesn't matter, but just maybe you will know the answer to this because no one else does. Is this like a common thing that randomly. The two weeks before we broke up, he was just super, like, overly nice. Like it Was, like, unreasonable and weird how nice he was being. Is that like a normal thing that someone, like, feels bad they're about to break up with you, so they're, like, overly nice?

[Nick]

What about this guy's behavior has been normal?

[Jordan]

That's true.

[Nick]

I mean, I don't know. I don't know your answer. Yeah, and I don't have an answer. Sure. I mean, people do weird things all the time. You're making too much about a temporary moment in your relationship. What really matters is how this guy was throughout your relationship, which is most time. He wasn't that nice. I don't know. Maybe he tried out being a good guy and kind of hated it.

[Jordan]

Yeah, you know, I think so because I said he wasn't allowed to watch football six days a week. So I think that that was a big problem.

[Nick]

You're wasting, again, energy on something that, you know, it's not that it doesn't matter, it's just. Well, I mean, it doesn't matter. That is the answer. Yeah. You know, but the point is you're wasting all this energy trying to, like, figure out something that doesn't matter. And it. What matters is you've asked a lot of people and no one has an answer for you. And you're not willing to accept that. That's your problem.

[Jordan]

Right.

[Nick]

I mean, what were you hoping I was going to come up with?

[Jordan]

I don't know. Like, I think I was just because in my head it was just that he felt bad that he was going to break up with me. So I was just wondering if you were going to confirm that.

[Nick]

Maybe. But what does that change?

[Jordan]

I guess nothing.

[Nick]

And then. So why are you wasting your energy and a lot of it, my. My dad. On things that ultimately wouldn't change how you feel?

[Jordan]

I guess there's no reason. I guess because it's an ego hit.

[Nick]

We're going to get off the phone and I'll move on. And you just. Eventually you're going to have to ask yourself, is this fun because I like the drama, or am I just exhausted, wasting my energy on this, on these types of people and on these types of situations?

[Jordan]

Hopefully saying exhausted, hopefully.

[Nick]

But the answer will be in your actions.

[Jordan]

So what actions am I supposed to do right now? Just get over it.

[Nick]

As far as him, I would. Yes, I would. Stop investing a lot of your mental energy trying to figure him out. That would be step one. And when you do find yourself in your head asking yourself these questions, because that's normal, you just have to say, stop it.

[Jordan]

I was Going to say your thing works. I thought it was crazy when you were saying it. I was like, that is not real. When you. I forgot exactly how you said it. But you said, like, when you think. Catch yourself thinking about something over and over, just literally telling yourself to stop. And I always thought you were crazy. Like, that's not a thing. But that actually works.

[Nick]

Yeah, like, why can't we talk to ourselves all the time? Why can't you tell yourself to do something? Why can't you just. Right now I'm thinking about Justin dressed as a vampire yesterday, and now I'm thinking about what I'm gonna have for lunch. Look, I just changed what I was thinking about. You know, it's not that hard. We, like, we're so good at convincing ourselves that we have to obsess over these things. Like, we're so good at giving ourselves permission to do what we want. It's ridiculous. And that's all that is. Because what you want to. You want. We like to obsess over things. We love to ruminate. We love to think, you know, about this stuff. And we just need to give ourselves more credit. But, yeah, I mean, thank you for saying that and acknowledging that. But, yeah, you can. Can do that. The difference between. It's like when I say that, you're taking it as you can't control thoughts entering into your mind, and that's true. You can't. Like, sometimes things just pop up. Why did I just think that? Holy shit, that was weird. The difference is, how long are you gonna. How much energy and how much time are you gonna let yourself ruminate and sit on this thing that popped in your head? Or are you gonna let it go and that's the thing you can control, and then what do you do going forward as far as this guy? I don't know. Ask yourself, why am I spending so much time with this guy? Is it because I really like him? Or is he keeping me preoccupied? Is he distracting me? Do I really see a future with this guy? If so, is it healthiest for us to stay hanging out every day? Maybe I should just say no to him and see how he reacts to that. Maybe I can learn something about this guy by changing how often we're hanging out. And if it disappoints him, see how he handles disappointment? Is he capable of having a mature conversation that goes something like, hey, honestly, I really like you and I've been kind of excited about you. But, like, to be totally honest with you, I just got out of a relationship that you know about. And like I'm, I'm really, I moved on from that. But because I really like you, I kind of want to slow down just a tad. And I don't mean like stop talking. But like maybe we don't have to hang out seven days a week. Or maybe you don't even have to have that conversation. Maybe you can just start saying, no, hey, I'm kind of busy. And then if he does check in with you and be like, hey, like I'm just kind of noticing you're more busy. Just be like, well, to be honest, like, I just, I really like you. I want you to know that I just like don't want to deprioritize all the other things I have going on in my life. Like my work, like my friends, like my family. And I just like, I want, I want to have a healthy balance in my life. But just know I really like you and that's mature and that's a healthy conversation. And he should listen to that, hear you out. He can be like, oh, okay, well, yeah, that makes sense. But like, yeah, I really like you too and I look forward to seeing you tomorrow or whenever it is.

[Jordan]

Or do you say that out of nowhere or just if he asks why I'm not hanging out at much, you.

[Nick]

Can either address it right away and just tell him or change your behavior and see if he asks you.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Nick]

Yeah. I don't know if there's necessarily a wrong way. And then yeah, kind of. Stop lying. I don't know. Don't lie about stupid. As far as.

[Jordan]

I swear I don't usually lie. I'm a horrible liar. Usually. I just got nervous.

[Nick]

I mean, listen, I. I don't know if you need to tell them, but you could. I don't think you have to make it such a big deal. You would just go something like this. Hey, something. Can I tell you something kind of weird? I honestly. This is so stupid. But like technically I lied to you because technically, well, not even technically, my ex broke up with me last. And don't say you tried to break up with him. You know you did break up with him. I broke up with him several times, but I just honestly never followed through with the breakup. Cuz he always apologized and he always made a bunch of excuses. So I always like took him back. And honestly like my ego was just a little bruised by him ending it. I don't know why I lied about it. It's been rubbing me. It's been bothering me. I like you. I don't. I Don't want to, like, lie about stupid. It's not who I am. So. And honestly, like, he shouldn't make that. That big of a deal.

[Jordan]

Yeah, he probably will just say, okay.

[Nick]

You know, listen, you just met this guy, so slow down. Get to know him. You know nothing about this guy. Still, I don't care that you hung out every day. There is so much about this guy you don't know. You're changing as a human being. He's changing as a human being. So, like, keep getting to know him. Don't make promises about your future with. With him. Don't talk about the future. Don't make plans beyond, you know, next week with him. Just be like, yeah, I really like you today, and I'm really. I really. I'm really enjoying to getting to know you. And I really. I just. I hope we continue on this path. That's. That's. That's the most you can promise someone. Certainly.

[Jordan]

Okay, I'll get it together.

[Nick]

All right. Control your ego. You can do it. You're just. You haven't done it yet. You've chosen not to do it. Like, you're there. You, like, you kind of understand the rules. You get. You got to follow through this time.

[Jordan]

It's crazy, because I hear you say that to people all the time, and for some reason, I just literally did not think you were going to say that to me.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, listen, because we all. We all think we're different and special and unique, and when, you know, listen, it's. I am not as good at giving advice to myself when I am emotionally triggered or fucked up or deregulated type of thing. That's why I have a therapist. That's why I have a support. Support system. You know, I am not emotionally invested in your life. And then I can see it very clearly. You are emotionally invested in your life. You're invested in the outcomes. You know, your ego is involved. So, yeah, listen, it's. It's normal that way. Your biggest thing, again, is to. When these feelings pop up is to recognize what it is and not give in to the behaviors and feelings that you're feeling and control those thoughts and feelings to the best of your ability. You're just recognizing it and then doing nothing about it. You're just like, well, my situation is different. And, you know, and you're more interested in these random, bullshit, useless questions you come up with of, what does it mean? Sounds like you bought my book.

[Jordan]

I didn't, but I need to.

[Nick]

Okay, well, if you. No, it's Fine, but you were just kind of. You know. A lot of what I talk about on the show is in the book, but, like, there's a whole chapter on when to ask yourself why versus when. Do you ask yourself what? After a breakup, you got to remove the why word out of your vocabulary. Why does it matter? It just happened. Why? Who gives a fuck? It did. What happened is more important. He treated me a certain way. He was inconsistent. He called him. He was a weak person. What is very important right now for you? Why? I don't care. You know, that's a good point. You. Can you ask yourself why about this new guy? Why do I feel the way I do? You know, why am I spending so much time with him? Is it healthy to do so? You know, am I making healthy choices when it comes to this new guy? Why am I doing it? That's a good time to ask yourself why.

[Jordan]

You gave me some things to think about.

[Brooke]

Because you.

[Jordan]

I didn't think that there would be anything new. But you've said what other people haven't said. And I thought that I already knew what you were going to say, but I guess I didn't.

[Nick]

Well, good. This is good to know. I. I'm not a broken record yet. Check out the book. Don't text your ex happy birthday. And I'm guessing there's a lot of things in there. There's a whole chapter on getting over people. There's a whole chap. Chapters on dating. And then this whole, like, why versus what a lot. I mean, this whole book, again, is just about, like, changing your perspective on your dating life. And I think ultimately your biggest problem is you are a victim of your perspective when you're emotionally triggered.

[Jordan]

Okay, well, I'll go. I'll go order it now.

[Nick]

And in the meantime, you kind of already know a lot of the rules, so to speak. Now you have to apply them.

[Jordan]

Okay, I will. I think I know what to do. Just the not ruminating on things and stop asking why.

[Nick]

And I think maybe you need to ask yourself if you are a little too into the drama than you like to acknowledge.

[Jordan]

Right? I don't know. I honestly don't know if I am or not.

[Nick]

I think you are, based off what you're telling me.

[Jordan]

That's embarrassing.

[Nick]

You're not alone. Why are you embarrassed? I don't get who. Like, you act like you're the only person who has an ego in this world. Stop being embarrassed over silly things. Who. Who. Who are you embarrassed from? Like me. I'm not judging you. The People listening, they don't even know who you are. They don't even know your real name. You're just a voice.

[Jordan]

That's true.

[Nick]

What do. What are you so embarrassed about? You know, it's just being dramatic.

[Jordan]

That's gross.

[Nick]

Well, stop it.

[Jordan]

Okay? I will do my best because I do not want anyone to think I'm dramatic.

[Nick]

You investing your energy in things that ultimately don't impact your life is you being dramatic. So recognize that. Why? Again, why. Why am I doing what I'm doing now? Not why did he do what he like. If you want to ask yourself why, ask yourself why. About yourself, not about them.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Nick]

I don't know why he's doing what he's doing. Who knows? I can't make sense of him. You can ask yourself why. You. You. And you can have the answers. You have all the answers about who you are and why you do what you do. And if you're willing to be honest with yourself, you know, asking yourself why, you can get a lot of information about why you do what you do. You just have to be willing to ask, and you have to be willing to listen and be honest with yourself. You got to keep it real.

[Jordan]

Okay. Okay, I will.

[Nick]

All right. All right. Well, good luck out there. Good luck with this new guy. Let us know what happens.

[Jordan]

Okay, well, thanks for letting me call in and talk to you about it.

[Nick]

I apprec. Appreciate the call.

[Jordan]

Okay, have a good day.

[Nick]

Bye. Bye. You too. Bye. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue. And guess what? Now you can call them on your auto insurance too. With the name your price tool for from Progressive. It works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for your car insurance and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. Get your quote [e-mail] and join over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliate's price and coverage match limited by state law. After investing billions to light up our network, T mobile is America's largest 5G network. Plus right now you can switch keep your phone and we'll pay it off up to $800. See how you can save on every plan versus Verizon and at&t@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlocked device credit service ported 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required Card has no cash access and expires in six months. Helix Sleep Wish I was in my Helix mattress right now. I tell you that right now because I am sleepy. But when I get done, whenever I get done with work, I am so excited to lay my heavy head on my Helix mattress because it is the most comfortable mattress ever made. Truly, it's the greatest invention. Right next to electricity. I actually would put it right before electricity because I don't need light when I'm sleeping. Helix mattresses are amazing. They have a mattress for everyone. We, Natalie and I sleep on the moonlight mattress. But that may not be the one for you. I don't know how you sleep. I don't know. Do you sleep hot? Do you sleep cold? Do you sleep on your side? Do you sleep on your stomach? Do you sleep standing up? Do you sleep on your head? I. I don't know. But the good thing is Helix has 20 unique mattresses for any kind of sleeper. All you gotta do is take a quick quiz. You just go to helixleep.com answer a couple basic questions about your preferences on how you sleep, how you wanna feel when you sleep and helix will select one of their 20 unique amazing mattresses for you so that you can get the best sleep of your life. They have the award winning luxe and ultra premium elite collections. Plus they have mattresses for even those kiddos. That's right, the little ones need to sleep too. And Helix has amazing mattresses for them as well. They also give night sleep trial so you can sleep on it for 100 nights. Try it out, it'll be awesome and if you don't want it, you can send it back. They also have a 1010 to 15 year warranty on all their mattresses depending on the mattress that you get. If that's not good enough for you, well just know that they were awarded the number one mattress picked by GQ and Wire magazine. Also recommended by multiple leading chiropractors and sleep doctors as the go to solution for improving your sleep. So if you are in the market for a new mattress, look no further than Helix. Just go to helixleep.com Again, answer a couple of those questions and in a few days you will be sleeping on the best mattress ever invented. Helix is offering up 20% off. All mattress orders go to helixeep.com v I a l l that is helixleep.com v I a L L With Helix, better sleep starts now.