E846 Ask Nick - Religious Gossip

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Viall Files – Episode E846 "Ask Nick - Religious Gossip"

Episode Information

• Title: The Viall Files
• Host: Nick Viall
• Description: Your go-to podcast for dating, relationships, pop culture, and Reality Television, with insights from Nick Viall, Natalie Joy, and the Household.
• Release Date: November 25, 2024
• Episode: E846 "Ask Nick - Religious Gossip"

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Introduction

In this episode of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall delves into complex relationship issues brought forward by listeners. The episode primarily focuses on religious gossip and its impact on personal relationships, alongside other intricate dating dilemmas. Three listeners, Stacy, Claire, and Miranda, share their experiences, seeking Nick’s guidance on navigating turbulent emotional landscapes influenced by religion, family dynamics, and long-term relationships.

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Listener Call 1: Stacy – Navigating Best Friend’s Elopement and Family Drama

Timestamp: [01:06] – [38:50]

Background: Stacy, a 30-year-old from Toronto, Ontario, contacts Nick seeking advice about her best friend who eloped with her first cousin. The marriage was sudden, announced only a few days prior, and excluded Stacy from the wedding. This exclusion has strained both their personal friendship and their business relationship, as they co-own a cleaning business.

Key Points:

• Elopement Without Notice: Stacy expresses frustration over her best friend’s decision to marry quickly without prior discussion or invitation, despite Stacy’s explicit feelings about being excluded:
  “... I would be personally upset about it because she's my best friend. I introduced her to my cousin and I expressed my feelings prior to. And she completely disregarded how I felt.” ([02:27])

• Impact on Business Relationship: The elopement has led to professional tensions, with Stacy’s friend wanting to exit their joint business after the marriage.
  “It's just a bit of a gap there. And so when they came back, they left me there with no food, no water, no keys to the car.” ([07:00])

• Religious Underpinnings: Both Stacy and her friend come from a Pentecostal background, which heavily influences their actions and family perceptions. Stacy critiques her friend’s motives, suggesting rebellion against past religious constraints as a reason for the hasty marriage.

• Rumors and Defamation: Following the marriage, Stacy faces unfounded rumors spread by her family and her friend’s family, accusing her of inappropriate behavior.
  “I've heard I've done all types of drugs. And I'm just like. I have never even thought about it.” ([09:53])

Nick’s Advice: Nick encourages Stacy to reconsider the idea of cutting off her friend, suggesting that sometimes people need to navigate their own paths and that being overly judgmental may not be productive. He emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries while maintaining respect:
“You want her in your life... You have the right to have what you want.” ([06:03])

Nick also touches on the generational trauma stemming from their religious upbringing, advising Stacy to recognize how deeply ingrained these issues are and to focus on her own well-being without trying to change her friend:
“You need to stop caring what people think. You need to stop caring what they think.” ([29:36])

Conclusion: Nick underscores the importance of prioritizing personal growth and emotional health over clinging to strained relationships. He advises Stacy to attend family gatherings with grace, set firm boundaries, and focus on rebuilding her business independently if necessary.

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Listener Call 2: Claire – Overcoming Self-Sabotage in Dating as a Single Mom

Timestamp: [43:11] – [76:05]

Background: Claire, a 38-year-old single mother by choice, reaches out to Nick about her struggles with self-sabotaging behaviors in dating. She feels overwhelmed easily, leading to ghosting or leading potential partners on. Claire attributes part of her difficulty to the absence of a father figure in her life and a rigid, judgmental religious upbringing.

Key Points:

• Self-Sabotaging Behaviors: Claire identifies patterns of withdrawing from relationships when she feels pressured or overwhelmed, often leaving after budding relationships seem promising only to regret it later.
  “I feel like I've swung so far on the independent woman kind of side that I don't know how to swing back into the middle.” ([45:03])

• Impact of Abandonment Issues: The absence of her father since age 18 has left Claire with deep-seated abandonment issues, affecting her ability to commit and trust in relationships.
  “He was kind of more traditional... He moved away, and we never heard from him again.” ([49:28])

• Desire for Authentic Connection: Claire yearns for meaningful relationships where her partner understands and integrates into her life, especially involving her children, without sacrificing her individuality.
  “I do not want to have a kid's that have to worry about their father’s side because we have zero relationship with that side.” ([58:24])

Nick’s Advice: Nick emphasizes the importance of addressing underlying emotional issues, such as abandonment and commitment fears, possibly through therapy:
“It's definitely something you need to address with one [therapist].” ([54:43])

He advises Claire to prioritize her own goals and well-being, suggesting that she stop staying in the relationship out of pity and recognize her worth:
“You deserve to have love and companionship that you desire.” ([66:55])

Nick also encourages Claire to be honest about her struggles if she chooses to pursue a relationship, even if it means being vulnerable:
“Just be honest with him about your feelings and your struggles.” ([32:27])

Conclusion: Nick urges Claire to break free from the pattern of self-sabotage by focusing on her personal growth and seeking professional help. He advocates for Claire to trust her instincts, end unfulfilling relationships, and open herself up to healthier, more supportive partnerships.

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Listener Call 3: Miranda – Considering Ending a Six-Year Relationship

Timestamp: [79:45] – [107:17]

Background: Miranda, a 27-year-old woman from Florida, seeks Nick’s counsel on whether to end her six-year relationship. She feels that both she and her boyfriend have become complacent in their relationship, lacking passion and mutual support for each other’s ambitions. Despite loving him, she feels unfulfilled and worries that their differing goals may hinder her personal growth.

Key Points:

• Complacency and Lack of Growth: Miranda perceives her boyfriend as nonchalant and lacking ambition, contrasting sharply with her own career-driven mindset.
  “He has a very narrow mindset... I feel like he's holding me back.” ([83:45])

• Emotional Responsibility: Miranda struggles with feelings of emotional responsibility, fearing that ending the relationship would cause undue heartbreak for her partner.
  “I felt emotionally responsible. I love him. He's a great guy.” ([81:57])

• Desire for Passion and Support: She emphasizes her need for a partner who is passionate and supportive of her career aspirations, which she feels is currently missing.
  “What do you admire most about him? Patient.” ([87:16])

Nick’s Advice: Nick strongly advises Miranda to trust her gut instincts and prioritize her own happiness and ambitions over staying in a relationship out of pity or obligation:
“You have to trust your gut... You are making a convincing argument that it might be worth you testing the waters of seeing what else is out there.” ([91:52])

He encourages her to set clear boundaries and communicate her feelings honestly, even if it means being the “bad guy” in the breakup:
“Be prepared for the possibility... Let him hurt. You're not doing him any favors by staying.” ([98:25])

Nick also suggests Miranda to focus on her personal growth, reconnect with old friends, and engage in activities that fulfill her independently of the relationship:
“Continue doing what I'm doing... Be the person you want your partner to be.” ([75:28])

Conclusion: Nick underscores the importance of Miranda’s personal growth and fulfillment over maintaining a stagnant relationship. He urges her to end the relationship if it no longer aligns with her life goals and to seek connections that support her aspirations and personal happiness.

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Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Throughout the episode, Nick Viall provides empathetic and practical advice tailored to each listener’s unique situation. He emphasizes the importance of self-awareness, setting healthy boundaries, and prioritizing personal growth and emotional well-being over maintaining relationships that no longer serve a positive purpose.

Notable Quotes:

• “You deserve to have love and companionship that you desire.” ([66:55] - Claire)
• “Stop caring what people think.” ([29:36] - Stacy)
• “Trust your gut... You are making a convincing argument that it might be worth you testing the waters of seeing what else is out there.” ([91:52] - Miranda)

Conclusion: This episode of The Viall Files delves deep into the challenges posed by religious influences and long-term relationship dynamics. By addressing issues of gossip, self-sabotage, and complacency, Nick Viall offers valuable insights and actionable advice to help listeners navigate their personal and relational struggles with confidence and integrity.

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Note: This summary excludes all advertisements, intros, and outros to focus solely on the substantive content of the episode.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Claire]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

How's it going?

[Stacy]

Good. My name is Stacy. I'm 30, from Toronto, Ontario. My best friend married my first cousin and I need to know if I should cut her off.

[Nick]

Sounds like maybe she cut you off.

[Stacy]

It sounds like she did.

[Nick]

Well, what do you mean by cut her off exactly? As opposed to like, I don't know, maybe just like having a coffee conversation with her about how you feel about it?

[Stacy]

That is possible. I just feel like I expressed to her prior to her getting married that if she did have an elopement without this, like, inviting me, or she knew that she was going to elope, that if she did that I would be personally upset about it because she's my best friend. I introduced her to my cousin and I expressed my feelings prior to. And she completely disregarded how I felt.

[Nick]

Okay, but to be clear, your friend elope?

[Stacy]

She did elope, yes. She ended up eloping and they invited all of his siblings and one of our other uncles to be a part of it. So she knew on Monday that she was going to get married on Thursday. And then she sent me a photo Thursday night of her holding a marriage certificate.

[Nick]

Don't you think cutting her off is a bit hasty?

[Stacy]

So since I've emailed you, what I've considered is that I don't need to cut her off. I can just Keep it super amicable and cordial, but there's a sticky situation here. My best friend and I, we own a business together, and we operate together, so we have a cleaning business. And I knew that eventually she would need to move away, and so I was ready to just kind of take my losses and just be cordial with her and keep it peaceful. And she has since messaged me saying she wants out of the business completely.

[Nick]

Is this before or after she got married?

[Stacy]

This was after she got married. So she had messaged me, and I told her, like, congratulations, I would love to have a conversation with you once you get back into town. And so when she came back, she messaged me and said, hey, I would like to meet up with you to discuss how you've hurt me. And at that point, I probably could have had a better response.

[Nick]

And she said. She said, I want to meet up with you to discuss how you hurt her.

[Stacy]

That's right, because I told her, hey, I'm happy for you, and I'm happy to see that you've gotten married because that's always what you've wanted. I'm just not happy with the way you went about it.

[Nick]

Okay. Do you know if she's referring to your response is why you hurt her, or is there something else going on?

[Stacy]

No, that was the only thing. 100%. That is it.

[Nick]

Can I give you my honest opinion?

[Stacy]

Yes.

[Nick]

You both seem like you're overreacting, and.

[Stacy]

I figured I might, which is why I needed a man's perspective that is not involved emotionally to give me their opinion.

[Nick]

Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's when you say best friend, because maybe I don't know what you mean by that. How long you been friends with this person? Like, what does best friend mean to you?

[Stacy]

So I'm 30, and I met her when I was 15.

[Nick]

Okay, so a lifelong best friend.

[Stacy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay. It just seems a bit.

[Stacy]

We grew up in a super Pentecostal upbringing. We were super religious, and no one gets married faster than two horny Christians. I 100% believe that. And the whole reason why she got married on a whim was to stop sinning. So I was telling her, like, there's so many other sins involved, not just the one that if you do that, I just don't think you're thinking ahead. So she didn't tell any of her family that she was going to get married. She didn't tell any of her siblings. She has a family of 11, and I know you can relate to that. So she didn't invite none of her sisters, she didn't say anything, but all of his siblings were there and all of his people were there. And so is he religious? He grew up religious. I wouldn't say he practices religion at this time.

[Nick]

Are you still religious?

[Stacy]

No.

[Nick]

You're not? Okay. And her family? Are they.

[Claire]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay. I don't know anything about her, but I. I am very familiar with religion. It's very judgmental. It comes with a lot of shame, you know, which, like you said, no one gets married faster than two honey Christians because it's not. They don't. She didn't get married because she wanted to stop sinning. She got married because she wanted to stop feel the shame that she has been raised to feel when she does something that she's been told is a sin. She didn't uninvite her family. She uninvited shame to her wedding and good perspective, and she didn't feel shame from his family. And I don't know where you fall into that equation, but it sounds like you didn't approve of her getting married, per se.

[Stacy]

So when she met my cousin, when we were heading down to where he's from, my father had told her, whatever you do, don't get involved with those guys that you're about to meet. And she had never met them. She didn't really care to meet them. At the time. When we had driven down to his state, she was just coming fresh out of telling her coworker that she had developed strong feelings for him and she was getting over that heartbreak. And the entire ride down, she just read her Bible, cried and prayed. And so when we met my cousin, I know how my cousin is. And I said to him, look, she takes her relationship with Jesus super serious. She doesn't want to have sex before marriage. Please leave her alone, because I know you're not like that. And so I'm asking you out of respect to just leave her alone. And he was like, watch how fast I can get her in bed with me. And that, I felt like, was his mission and his only mission.

[Nick]

And so since he said that to you point blank.

[Stacy]

Yeah, in my face.

[Nick]

Did you tell her that? I did.

[Stacy]

And she was like, she didn't care to seem at the time. And so the next time they had met after their initial meeting was in Detroit, and I decided to go with her. She asked me if I could chaperone her weekend with him. And I said, no problem. And so the first day we get there, and they were going to go for a walk early in the morning and I want to give them their space. Like, she's 31, he's 25. So there is a bit of a gap there. And so I wanted to give them space. And they said they'd be back in a couple of hours. They went and did their walk, and I waited and waited and waited. I didn't want to text and pester them, but 10 hours later, they came back to the house, and they left me there with no food, no water, no keys to the car. And I. They finally come back, and they're like, oh, how's it going? And I'm like, I'm starving. I'm so glad you guys are back. Let's go get dinner. And they're like, no, we just had steak dinner. And I'm looking at them like, I'm number one, your cousin, and number two, your. The other person, your best friend. Like, you guys could have just texted me, hey, you idiot. I'm gonna go get food. You guys should. You should order some Uber.

[Nick]

Did you text them or something? Did you text?

[Stacy]

I didn't, because I wanted to give them privacy. I didn't want to pester them. I was like, I figured they'd be back eventually. They said you'd be gone for a few hours. And so when they came back, I was like, okay, let's. Let's go eat. And so once I figured that out, I was like, okay, clearly, like, I'm not a consideration, which is fine, because obviously when you first fall in love and somebody's paying you attention and you're in La La land, you're not thinking about, did that person eat? Did that person drink? You're just worried about you and the person you're with. And so when they came back and told me that, I was so confused. And then at that time, they pretty much told me that I would be sleeping in a separate room and they'd be taking a bedroom together. And I just felt like, she's grown enough. He's grown enough. I'm not going to get in between that. And then ever since that weekend, like, it's just been. I've expressed to her many times where I was like, I don't think you're making the right decision here. I don't think he approves of who you are as a person, and I don't see this going well. And so in the long run, he's been upset with her over multiple things, like her watching Love is Blind. He was like, I would never be with a woman that watches trash reality TV and traits her mind with that garbage and ignored her for an entire week. And who was there to have her back? It was me. And there's all these little things where she used to. I don't know if I'm allowed to speak about the devil's lettuce on your.

[Nick]

Podcast, but what's the devil's lettuce? Marijuana. Oh, yeah, you can I say the same thing.

[Stacy]

So she used to use a dab pen. And he told her from the very beginning, like, look, I would not be with you if you smoke weed. Like, I don't want to be with somebody that partakes in that. And so she said, I'll quit for you.

[Miranda]

And.

[Stacy]

And so that was two years ago. A year in would have been last year. She told me, I have to confess, I've been taking edibles this entire time. So I'm not smoking. I'm not lying to him, because I'm not smoking, but now I'm ingesting it. And so I told her, you have two options. To tell him the truth and let him know who you are so that he can love you for who you are, or you quit and just never say anything. Don't just bury it in the backyard and let it go. So on Monday, when I told her, like, as a best friend, I would never get married to anybody without wanting at least my best friend to know, like, hey, one of my cousins could have FaceTimed me, so I could have been there if she wanted me there. I'm not trying to say, like, this is what you should have done. This is what I would have wanted to see from her as an initiative. And so I was telling her, as a best friend, I would never do that to you. I can't allow you to tell people we're best friends, because I don't feel like we're best friends anymore. We can be family. We have no choice at this point. You've married into the family. Welcome to the family. But I don't think we're best friends. And I think her guilty conscience got the best of her because she started spiraling out of control a few days ago. And she also. My parents own a commercial cleaning business, and she's an employee. She quit an hour before she was supposed to show up to her shift. And my sister has a baby shower on the weekend, and she texts her, saying, hey, I know I said I was coming. I'm no longer coming. I will send your gift to your home. So I sent her a message like, hey, I think you're. Like, you're emotionally Spiraling out of control. Right now I'm trying to get a hold of her, and she's just sending me straight to voicemail. Straight to voicemail. And come to find out she decided four days after she married my cousin to tell him the truth, that she's been taking edibles for the last two years.

[Nick]

Do you know how you responded?

[Stacy]

I don't. I don't know. And her and I are supposed to get together actually this evening to kind of discuss everything. And I don't know how to come into this because I'm the type of person that I get over things really quick. I can see that humans are flawed and people do things without thinking about them. I just don't know if I could trust her to have my back and to consider my feelings moving forward. And so that's where I was going to draw a boundary, to just say, hey, we can work together, we can coexist together. That's not a problem. But I just don't want to spend every day with you because that's what we were doing for the last two years. We were working together on a daily basis. We go to the same gym together. And she actually canceled her membership. She said she doesn't want to come to the gym anymore. So she's now kind of turned it where she's avoiding me. And I don't know how to approach the situation at this time.

[Nick]

So when you talk about your friend, you talk as if she's your little sister and not your best friend.

[Stacy]

That's the thing. So I see her as my sister.

[Nick]

I don't doubt that I see her as the sister, but you don't talk about her as if she's your equal. And maybe, maybe she talks about you the same way. I know you're just telling a story, but, like, when you were like, you got two choices, and I know she's coming to you, it sounded like for advice. But you're very, you know, direct, you know, which can be a very great quality, I guess my point is, I have no doubt maybe your. Your friend is going through something. You know, I think people from very hardcore religious families and communities can rebel. They can, I think, sometimes grow up feeling like they never really felt like they could be their truest self. And then they get to a kind of certain age and they interact with people. They meet new people. Maybe your cousin, whether he's a good guy or a decent guy or not, it sounds like maybe he just, you know, he scratched a niche that she had, and he's just like, an, you know, an outlet. But the more you talk about her, the more it kind of makes sense to me why maybe you weren't included in her wedding. And I don't. I'm not saying that you did anything wrong. I'm just saying this sounds like a person going through something, and it sounds like a person that, for whatever reason, whether she's making good choices or bad choices, and you're probably right about the choices that she's making, but some people just kind of have to figure it out at some point. I think the perfect way to go about life is to learn from other people's mistakes so that you can avoid mistakes of your own. But no. No one does that. You know, some of us do it better than others. Part of being a teenager in your early 20s is, you know, you kind of have to figure it out and fuck up. And, you know, and if you have been kind of stunted because your family is always, you know, you grow up in this religious family, don't do this, don't do that. You're burning hell if you do this. You're bur hell if you do that. And you. You kind of never really dip your toes in the water, so to speak, you know, and then. Listen, the reality is, is that not all the things that our religion teaches us are as evil or as bad as we're. We're told that they are. And I think sometimes when we kind of get outside of the bubble that we are raised in and we try things that we've been told are evil or wrong, and we're like, you know, like, maybe marijuana, you know, and. And you know that there's problems with marijuana. But, like, you're just. Like, you're. You just kind of start wondering, what else have I been missing out on? What else have I not been doing? And I hate for your friend if she is making a hasty decision with your cousin in terms of her marriage, that she is using marriage as a way to rebel. Because marriage is, you know, it's not as per. It's not permanent like, you know, other things are, but it's a hell of a lot more difficult to end a marriage than a relationship. And, you know, if it doesn't work out, your. Your friend will then be. You know, she'll have to always be like, well, I was married once, and now I'm divorced. And I'm guessing if this marriage doesn't work out, she will not love saying that she got divorced. But at the end of the day, maybe your friend just needs to do this and being a friend isn't telling your friend what to do, and then when they don't do that, punishing them by telling them that you don't want to be a part of their life and blah, blah, blah. You can't call me your best friend. Sometimes being a best friend is to say, I don't agree with your decisions. I don't necessarily support your decisions, but I love you, and I'm always going to be here for you, you know? And it's not to say. It's not about saying, oh, I told you so, or, you should have listened to me. If you end up being right and it all falls. And she falls on her face six months or a year from now, being the friend is to be there saying, I'm here. I'm here to not tell you I told you so, but to just to be the friend, you know, to have their back and support them, you know, because sometimes we just need to figure it out on our own. And the picture you're painting with your friend is that. Is. Yeah. That she is. She needs to do this. Whether it's a good decision or not, she needs to do it.

[Stacy]

It's just hard because, like, my cousin is completely estranged from his parents due to this relationship with my friend. Because they were saying, like, if you're gonna marry Stacy's best friend, how do you think your girlfriend acts? So they think because I don't go to church and I don't follow the religion we grew up in, that I'm just, like, a totally loose screw. And they've come up with a ton of different rumors. I spent some time living in Massachusetts. I spent some time living throughout the States, and they started rumors that my. My friend had lived with me and had a train ran on her, because I set that up for her.

[Nick]

And by train, you mean, like, sexually.

[Stacy]

Yes. And so they're coming up with all of these rumors and then saying that they.

[Nick]

Who's they? Again, from their source, Your cousin's family.

[Stacy]

My. My auntie and uncle. Yeah, that's right. And so it got to the point where my friend had told me I had to tell your cousin to stop talking bad about you, and if he had nothing nice to say about you, to not discuss my friendship with you whatsoever.

[Nick]

That's a good friend.

[Stacy]

In the back of my head, I'm just kind of sitting here like, what did I. I haven't done anything to these people. I haven't done anything to degree. To the degree that they're saying I've done And just the simple fact that she associates with me, she is looked at the wrong way. And I've done nothing to give these people that judgment on me. I've never done anything out of pocket. I don't even follow these people on social media. And so I, in a way, feel a type of way. My cousin's siblings had come up to our area two weeks ago. So a week before she got married, his siblings were here. And I spent the entire week taking them around, showing them all the cool things that are around here, taking them to different spas, taking them sightseeing, taking them everywhere. And at the end, they thanked her for taking them around everywhere. And then I didn't. Not that I need a thank you, but I took time off. I don't work on a salary job. I get paid hourly. I took days off to take them around, and then I found out afterwards that they spent the entire afternoon talking shit about me. Like, the siblings with my friend are.

[Nick]

These, these are your cousins? This is your cousin's family? Direct family, yes.

[Stacy]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nick]

And they're, they're religious, but he, your cousin's not.

[Stacy]

So my auntie and uncle are. But I found that a lot of my parent, my mom's siblings, they practice heavily still, whereas the children from those parents, we kind of don't practice as much anymore because we've seen our parents just be hypocrites throughout our lives on so many different things. So a lot of us have fallen away from the religion and we don't practice, or we only practice to keep our parents happy, which is what my cousin's siblings do. They still attend church, they still kind of look the part of religion, but when they're away from their parents, they act completely different. And so I'm the type of person that if I smoke weed, I'm going to smoke weed in front of my cousins, I'm going to smoke weed in front of my friends, because I'm not going to change who I am in front of other people now. I'm not going to sit there and just be high out of my mind, but I'm still going to be who I am as a person. And so they sat together and just spoke about how, you know, how Stacy is. And my friend had asked, well, what do you mean by that? And she came to me and told me, oh, your, your cousin said that you're easily offended, you're argumentative, you take things too personally. And when I confronted him, like, hey, can you just tell me why you feel that this is how I Am. He was like, I never said any of that. And so when I went back to my best friend to confront her like, hey, why did you say he said this about me? And he never did? And she's like, I must have just assumed that. And so I am now in a predicament where I can't even really call my cousins to clear the air because I look exactly like she said to. I was easily offended, argumentative, and taking things too personally. And I don't even, I don't want to call my cousin and discuss this with him or with the other siblings. And I don't even know what to say to my friend anymore. I just feel like I'm in between a rock and a hard place and my only option is to show Grace.

[Nick]

What'S your priority here?

[Stacy]

My priority was my business, to be honest, because she was going to move away anyways. She was going to move away and I was going to have to. We were going to slowly transition from being a unit to me taking over. I wasn't ready to do that in a 24 hour window. I thought I had because she got married, came back here and was going to move out to America in about April, May. Okay, so we had a time here. My priority was my business, my priority. Like I know friendships are a priority to some people, but I also understand that a marriage comes before any friendship. And I feel like my cousins made it clear that he doesn't think that her and my friendship is a priority to him. And I think, I'm assuming now, but I'm assuming he's having her choose between him or me, which is why she's cut me off so out of the blue without any warning.

[Nick]

Well, whether you are sensitive or dramatic or whatever your, those accusations were, like you said, like clearly someone thinks you are, I will say, like considering cutting off your friend because she invite you to your wedding. I understand why you're hurt to be clear, but it is dramatic and it. Listen, it is okay to be sensitive, you know, people say it like it's a bad thing, you know, and clearly.

[Stacy]

Every single person I have talked about this with has said like, has sided with me. And that's why I'm like, I don't know if I'm right or wrong. And I don't want someone to just side with me because I'm telling them my perspective. So I really do appreciate you telling me I'm being dramatic because I feared I was being dramatic.

[Nick]

It sounds like you're being a little dramatic, but I, but you are not without a reason. That's the thing. You're not without a reason to be mad. You're not without a reason to be frustrated or hurt. You know, like, this sounds like a very kind of messy family dynamic with these layers of religion. And, you know, you said something earlier like you just, you know, you are comfortable with being yourself. That is a threat to many people, especially people who are very religious. It's a very common theme in very religious families or communities to present. Like, it's. Appearances matter and it's a threat. Yeah, it's just like, if you're going to smoke weed or get drunk or have a weird sex habit, just do it. Fucking enclosed doors. And, you know, don't flaunt that shit because it's almost. It's like showing who you are is the disrespect people don't. Clearly your family or his family or that part of the family does not appreciate that ass part of you. So to that end, you'd need to stop giving a fuck. You need to stop caring what they think.

[Stacy]

It's just hurtful because my. It gets back to my parents, and then my parents will confront me and be like, is this true or not true? And then I can go blue in the face telling my parents that it's a lie. And they'll be like, no, I know you're lying to me, that this is the truth.

[Nick]

Which part? Like the gangbang rumor?

[Stacy]

Yeah, like, all of it.

[Nick]

Like, they.

[Stacy]

There's so many more. There's so many more hypothetical stories that I have heard about myself, and I'm almost like, I should have done that so at least I could sit here and be like, yeah, I did it. So what?

[Nick]

Like, what? Like, what? Like. And what's the craziest thing you've ever done? Like, where's.

[Stacy]

Like, I've. I've been through so much.

[Nick]

All right, so you've done some crazy shit, but some of the crazy shit you're being accused of, you haven't done.

[Stacy]

I haven't. Like, that's so, like, weeds the most I've done. But I've heard I've done all types of drugs. And I'm just like. I have never even thought about it. I've never felt the need to do any of any heavier drug.

[Nick]

So apparently, drug use, you say to your parents, mom, dad, listen, what's frustrating is that, like, honestly, I feel like I get criticized because I'm willing to actually not hide who I am. I smoke weed. I know you don't approve of it, but I do it and I'm not going to lie to you. And then somehow, some way, I get accused of doing a bunch of crazy drugs. Let's believe. You say to your parents, I don't know what to tell you. Believe what you want. I have. You know, and even when it comes to your parents, if they want to, I mean, honestly, how has your life changed by them not believing you?

[Stacy]

It hasn't.

[Nick]

So why do you think?

[Stacy]

It's just because reputation for a religious person is everything. It doesn't matter.

[Nick]

You're not that religious.

[Stacy]

Truly live. I know, but the thing is, like my parents, they're super involved with the church still. And all my siblings are super involved with the church. All my siblings are married, all my siblings have children. And I've just decided that I don't want that for myself.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Stacy]

And so when I do attend like family functions, it's always like, I'll put it this way, like I'll ask my dad, hey, I want advice. What would you do in my position? And I'll start off by saying that. And he'll be like, I would repent. And I was like, can I just tell my story and ask for your opinion? He's like, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, you just need to repent. So everything always goes back to me needing to repent.

[Nick]

I hear you. So stop asking for your dad's opinion and listen, you can. And I, and I can understand why that makes you sad. You know, you want to go. You want to be able to go to your dad or your mom or your loved ones and get their advice. But unfortunately your parents are hyper involved in their church. It is a core value of who they are. You don't agree with that value. You know, that's the thing. It's like you also have to recognize that you are rejecting your parents core values. Right. So as much as your parents make you feel rejected, you are rejecting them.

[Stacy]

You know, you had, you had another listener come on here talking about that where she wrote her mom a letter regarding her not wanting to be a part of the same religion. And that really stuck out to me. I don't know if you remember that episode you did.

[Nick]

Yeah, vaguely. It was the Mormon religion.

[Stacy]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like it's been almost a year. So I've been listening to you for many years now. And I feel like I've developed myself emotionally and with my communication quite a lot since listening to you and the way that you see things because you have such a great perspective on Things. And so I take everything I've learned from you, and I was telling my friend everything and so on. We had our Thanksgiving last Monday, and so I had sent her a message on the Monday that was Thanksgiving, like, I'm so thankful for you. And she just sent me the most beautiful message back saying how she puts her friendship with me. Like, she thanks God for our friendship more than she thanks God for her fiance at the time. And how I've taught her how to communicate well, and I've taught her how to stop being impulsive, and I've taught her all these great things that you have taught me. And so in a way, it's just having my own situation. I'm like forgetting everything. Like, what do I do? How do I act normal? And so I'm really painful.

[Nick]

You're emotionally. Yeah, because this is affecting you. It's a lot. You know, I've gotten better at taking my own advice, but there's a reason why I have a therapist. You know, there's a reason why I have friends that I go to for advice. So, yeah, you're just, listen, you're emotionally triggered in a very complicated, messy situation. And you're. Despite your independence and your ability to, quote, unquote, be yourself, it's still. You're still not fully comfortable with it as it relates to your family. You know, as far as your friend goes, she's got her own shit with her religion. And you guys are right now fighting for respect. And, you know, and you're right, like, now that she is married, whether you like it or not or whether you agree with it or not, as she should, she should be prioritizing her husband and that marriage. But you can still. She can still be your best friend. You know, maybe not the same way when you were 16, 17, and maybe not the same way as last year, but, like, you can still be close, you can still talk on the phone on a regular basis. Now, right now, I get the whole. The aspect of your cousin is almost like pushing you away. But, like, whether you agree with him or not, you obviously have a big personality. And you, again, you are an independent thinker, especially as it relates to your other family and to that, you are a threat, you know, and you are a friend who is willing to go to people and offer advice and counsel. And if that advice and counsel goes against the thoughts and opinions of other people, they're going to say, well, I don't want you talking to her because they don't want you impacting how they think, you know, and that's what I.

[Stacy]

Think it comes down to. And that's when I. That's why I get sad, because a person who doesn't know who I really am has so much to say about who I am as a person. To be able to influence how a.

[Nick]

Friendship proceeds, you got to have to stop caring what people think.

[Stacy]

It's just my family. And it always comes down to the religious aspect of things.

[Nick]

Why? I don't understand. What did I say a couple weeks ago? Like, you know, unconditional love is not the same as unconditional. Like, and it sounds like a lot of people in your family don't like you, and I'm exaggerating about that, but.

[Stacy]

No, you're not wrong.

[Nick]

But they love you, you know, and there's a lot of people. I mean, I march to the beat of my own drum very confidently and without consideration, and I'm just not that interested, you know, People don't share their opinion with me anymore when it comes to, like, my family about, like, how I am, because they know I don't give a fuck. But you are interested in their opinion. And so they give.

[Stacy]

Because every Sunday I get the same question, are you coming to church today? And every Sunday, I give them the same, no, I am not. And I don't feel bad to say, no, I am not. And I don't feel bad to say I don't think that the way we were raised is what it is. I always kind of question my parents, like, how are you going to tell a person who was raised in a different religion that the way they were raised is wrong and that you were right? Like, how do I know that I. The way I was raised is the way, the truth, the light, the only way. And so I kind of push back with my immediate family, but when my parents start hearing things from the extended family and they look bad, I feel responsible for their reputation being put in a bad way.

[Nick]

Not your fault.

[Stacy]

That's what I said, too. Like, in a way, like, I feel bad. And then the other way, it's like, God will take care of that judgment because that's between them and God. It has nothing to do with me because I didn't do what they're saying I did.

[Nick]

Religious or not. This is gossip. And gossip, I'm pretty sure isn't like a 10 commandment or whatever. I'm pretty sure gossip is frowned upon by the Lord. And yet they are. And we all know a Christian loves the gossip. You know what I'm saying? That's a. It's a gossipy bunch. They love the tea, but it's not very holy. I'm pretty sure, man. I don't think they talk about gossip. Maybe they do in the Bible, but I'm pretty sure God wouldn't. I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't be down for it. You know what I'm saying?

[Stacy]

You talk about gossip.

[Nick]

You do. Okay. Is it down for it? No, I don't think gossip's very.

[Stacy]

No.

[Nick]

Yeah, right. And yet. Yeah. You know, that's my favorite thing about Christians, and I'm being sarcastic. They have some, like, you know, very strong beliefs about sex. You know, when. Especially when it comes to sex. Christians are very outspoken and all things related to sex. But when it comes to pride and humility and gluttony. And gluttony. Everything in between, you know, when it comes to the deadly sins, they're kind of, like, casual about those things. What I always find hilarious. It's like, it's a deadly sin, guys.

[Stacy]

So then, do you recommend I apologize for the way I initially reacted? Like, should I. I think I should lead. What I need to say to my friend.

[Nick]

Let's back. I've already apologized minus your friend, minus your job, which I understand, but as it relates to, like, as it relates to your friendship, do you want to be right, or do you want her in your life?

[Stacy]

I've been hearing you ask me this question all week long, and I don't care to be right. I don't need to be right.

[Nick]

All right, so then you just. When you have. When you meet with her tonight, you just say, hey, listen, obviously I wish I was at your wedding, but it was your wedding, and I don't know why you didn't invite me, but at the end of the day, I guess as much as I was sad, it's not my wedding. It's not about me, but I love you. We've had a great 15 years, and I want to make sure we have another 15 years. I want you in my life, and you have a husband now. I've already shared my opinions. I'm here to be your friend. If you want to come to me for advice, I will always be your friend. But I'm not. Like, I'm just here to support you because that's how I want to be as a friend, you know, and if you need my help, I'm here to help. And you can say this. And this is how you kind of bond with her. You can say, we have enough of people in our lives making us feel judged in Shame for our choices. And I want to tell you that as your friend, the thing I never want to do to you is make you feel judged and shamed for yours. And if I did over the past couple months, for that, I am sorry.

[Stacy]

That's good.

[Claire]

I like that.

[Nick]

That's really good. Yeah, I just came up with it because that's, you know, I mean, really, like, you know, she's not in your life to be right. You know, if you want to have someone, have a kid or, you know, be a big sister, go to the Boys and Girls Club and be a mentor if you want to. If you want to mentor someone. But she's your friend. She's not your little sister. She's not your kid. She's not an employee. You're not her mentor.

[Stacy]

Yeah, it gets, like, sticky because she has asked me so much when it comes to life because she always says to me, you have so much more life experience. So she's always asking for my opinion on things.

[Nick]

Yeah, but you have a bit of entitlement is someone asking for your opinion. It doesn't mean they have to take it, you know, and when. When someone. But yeah, but when someone asks for your opinion and they don't take it, it rubs you the wrong way, specifically when it comes to her, because you're kind of like, well, why did you ask? And it offends my time. It offends you that they're going to ask your opinion and not take it. But you need to stop talking down to your friend because it sounds like you do. My.

[Stacy]

You're not wrong. I might be. I haven't been aware of it. I like to think that I can be self aware, but I've never had anyone tell me that I talk down to her. But when I look back, I can see I have probably made her feel that way.

[Nick]

Well, the simple fact that, like, you know, you feel like you've learned a lot through listening to the show. Right. And the things that you learned, it sounds like, have really benefited you. And so as a friend, you want to pass that knowledge and information along. And sometimes we do that with people who aren't necessarily ready to receive it. And even though your friend does ask for your advice. Yes. But sometimes, I'm guessing, you give advice even when she's not asking for it. Right. And then you do that in a way. And again, while expecting her to take your advice. Like, it's not directly like you're talking down to her, but like, over the course of time, you kind of have a sense of like, why aren't you making the same decisions I'm making that are working for me and you're not doing it and they're, you know, again, that's for sure. I have thought that.

[Stacy]

So I can see why you would think that.

[Nick]

Yeah. And you, like, you come from the same family, and you are very used. You know what it's like to be shamed, and it's just kind of in our blood to do that.

[Stacy]

Pass it along.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Stacy]

Generational trauma doesn't get passed down.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Stacy]

Out of nowhere. Like, definitely little things like this, like, shame definitely is a generational trauma that has been passed from our grandparents down to our parents down to us. And I see that, and I see what it does. And I never realized that I was also just as bad. So thank you.

[Nick]

Well, we're all. We are only human. Well, hopefully this was helpful.

[Stacy]

Yes.

[Nick]

I appreciate you. I think your friend will probably show up, and if she doesn't, it's probably has something to do with your cousin.

[Stacy]

So do you think I should go to Thanksgiving to my cousin's place?

[Nick]

Yes. Yes. Honestly, I'm kind of like, I was trying to visualize the way you talk, and it just, like, I would. I would show up for fun. I just don't care. I just. I just don't care. I just, like, I, I. And again, part of it is because I was very lucky to have the. The parents that I have. And my parents, despite growing up in the house that I have, they are. They are not judgmental, and they don't, you know, they really. They allow their kids to teach them a lot. I'm very grateful. So I, I. Part of the reason why I'm able to do what I. I am is because I know there's a lot of other more religious families that are a lot more hardcore, I guess, but at the end of the day, you care more than you realize, and you show them you care more than you realize. And you not showing up will definitely show them that you care. So if you are invited, you should absolutely go, and you should be delightful and nice and you should be respectful in terms of. Well, I may not agree with some things, but if you're in someone's house where they have a certain values, you should respect their values. If you're a guest, you know.

[Stacy]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Nick]

And so you go and you be delightful and you, you know, if someone comes to you about a rumor that they think you're doing, you could be like, well, no, but honestly, think what you want. I don't really care. But no, it's not true. But, like, pop off if it's more exciting to think that I am, you know, because you just have to stop caring. The good thing about not caring is, like, you won't actually know if they stop caring because you won't care to know.

[Stacy]

Okay. No, I. I heard what you said and I am thankful.

[Nick]

Well, we needed an update from you for sure.

[Stacy]

Yeah, no, definitely can give you an update.

[Nick]

All right.

[Stacy]

When I do talk to her.

[Nick]

Well, even if you don't, you know.

[Stacy]

Perfect. But yeah, I'll touch base after Thanksgiving.

[Nick]

After Thanksgiving. But go, be fun, be delightful, be nice. And to stop giving a fuck, you know?

[Stacy]

Okay, sounds good.

[Nick]

All right, take care.

[Stacy]

Thank you. Ciao.

[Nick]

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[Claire]

Hi, I'm Claire. I'm 38 years old and I'm having a problem dating because I'm self sabotaging a lot and I feel like I'm a bit of a red flag.

[Nick]

Okay, why do you feel like you're self sabotaging and why do you think you're a red flag?

[Claire]

I think I tend to get a little overwhelmed very easily, so I end up ghosting or I kind of lead people on a little bit. And I also feel like I can be a little bit of a red flag because I'm a single mom by choice, so I have my kids full time, which also makes dating very difficult.

[Nick]

Okay, so when you say a single mom by choice, what do you mean by that?

[Claire]

I use a single nurse.

[Nick]

Okay. Okay.

[Claire]

I have both my kids.

[Nick]

Oh, very cool.

[Claire]

Yeah, good for you.

[Nick]

Thanks. Okay, so it was really the choice to be a mom without having a partner is what you mean. But as far as the dating goes, you're still struggling with that. Just, just out of curiosity, why did you make that choice?

[Claire]

I was in a relationship. I was actually engaged that ended. I was kind of full on committed to that. When it ended, I was kind of already in the position of wanting children and wanting a family. So I dated for about two years and then just decided to go for it on my own.

[Nick]

Okay. All right. When it comes to relationships, what. What are your hopes and dreams?

[Claire]

That's where I kind of flip flop. I might feel like I contradict myself a bit doing this, but it's kind, kind of how my mind is working and what I need help with. But I really do imagine having somebody in mind in my kid's life, you know, somebody involved with their sport, someone who just integrates really well with us. So ideally, I do feel like I genuinely want that. I'm just having trouble even stepping into a first date or getting that going. I feel like I've swung so far on the independent woman kind of side that I don't know how to swing back into the middle.

[Nick]

When I asked what your relationship hopes and dreams are, what you said sounded more like you were looking for someone to be a male presence in your children's lives more than a romantic partner. Is that accurate or. Because that is kind of how it came across.

[Claire]

Yeah, that is definitely how it sounded. I think it's a perfect balance of the two. One of my biggest fears is not having that male presence or somebody who could have a good impact on my, my kids lives. But I definitely want to kind of keep that separated at the beginning, make sure it's a romantic partner. That's for me. But long term, I guess I kind of picture somebody meshing well with all three of us.

[Nick]

Do you have any healthy male relationships in your life, like a brother, father, friend?

[Claire]

No, my. I haven't spoken to my dad since I was 18.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Claire]

I don't have any brothers. And I think that this kind of of adds on top of this issue that I'm having with kind of having a healthy male relationship.

[Nick]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, that's a challenge. I mean, my part of the reason why I asked that question, it was more like, you know, maybe your brother or father obviously could play that role, but that doesn't exist for you. What about platonic male friends? How are you with having those?

[Claire]

I, I do have some. Like I have a couple girlfriends who have husbands who are definitely there for my kids. But I guess I just really do want to get out of my head and be able to have a relationship myself with somebody that I can kind of work my life that I've built around with them.

[Nick]

Yeah. Well, I'm glad you feel that way because when it comes to finding a love in a relationship, I understand. Obviously you want to find someone who could play that role with your kids, but that shouldn't be top of mind when you're out there dating. That's implied. You know what I'm saying? That should, that should take care of itself in theory. You know, you should have boundaries and standards that, you know, you're not going to fall in love with anyone that you don't think would be a Good role model to your children. No, no. Not every person who's dating actually takes care of that, thinks about that. And you know, you have to make sure that you are, you know, you're, you have healthy boundaries when it comes to dating and you are prioritizing the right feelings and emotions that you want to feel and you're not chasing boys. And if you're out there dating for validation, then there's a good chance you could meet someone and fall for someone who honestly doesn't give a fuck about your kids or isn't potentially a good male role model or anything like that. But you should be able to look for love without putting your kids first in that department, knowing that if you find the right person, that person will obviously have to love everything about you, which includes the children that you have.

[Claire]

Yeah, and that makes sense. I'm definitely not looking for like a baby daddy or dad to step in. Like, I don't need that. I, I've got things under control myself so I'm not going out there trying to fill that position essentially. But when you said like chasing fuck boys, I do definitely feel like I'm doing that because I'm scared of the commitment of somebody who is looking for something healthy, if that makes any sense.

[Nick]

Why are you scared of commitment? Are you in therapy?

[Claire]

No, I was after I had my second. But it's expensive and it's hard to justify that right now with my kids being young, I guess. But I think my issue is the commitment side of things. I'll get set up with somebody who seems really great and who is looking for a healthy relationship, isn't afraid of somebody with kids and I'll get a text message from them and I'm instantly feel like I'm panicking about having to respond and having to set up a date and I'm self sabotaging to get out of that situation.

[Nick]

Just out of curiosity, if you're comfortable talking about it, why haven't you seen your father since you were 18?

[Claire]

He was kind of a more traditional background. He wanted to have sons. We ended up with me and my sister and after my mom couldn't get pregnant again, he sort of checked out and. And then my mom left him. I think I was going into sixth grade and he never kind of really stayed in the picture at all. And when I was 18 he moved away and we never heard from him again.

[Nick]

Have you tried looking him up?

[Claire]

I've searched him on Google but he doesn't seem to want to maintain a relationship with my sister or I.

[Nick]

How do you know that?

[Claire]

From family, friends that are still in contact with him.

[Nick]

And they've said what?

[Claire]

That he's not interested in connecting with us. Myself and my sister both have kids. He's not interested in getting to know them.

[Nick]

I'm sorry. That sucks. That's wild.

[Claire]

No, it's okay. But that's definitely not okay. Had an impact on how?

[Nick]

Clearly, I mean, you know, I'm not a therapist and maybe you, you know, I don't really know you, and, and we haven't talked very long. But, you know, if I had a guess, I would have guessed that your fear of commitment comes from your abandonment issues caused by your father. You know, and it's a lot safer for you to not get close with people for fear of abandonment.

[Claire]

Right.

[Nick]

You know, but you're gonna have to figure that you're gonna have to deal with that at some point, you know?

[Claire]

Yeah, I just, I feel like I've, I've tried to kind of work through that. I feel like I'm positive about the situation because I wouldn't be who I am today if I didn't go through all that. But, but it's definitely played a role in my life. I've never had a long term relationship outside of the engagement I was in, which was just under three years.

[Nick]

Why did that end?

[Claire]

It was kind of a buildup for about six months leading up to it. He gambled a lot, he drank a lot, so I was frustrated with that. He also worked out of town, so I really only saw him part time, which also kind of maybe messed with my head because it was like I was in a relationship, but only half the time. And then ultimately he called it off. And if I'm honest, when he called it off, I was extremely relieved.

[Nick]

Okay, well, great. It was better than not being.

[Claire]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I'm assuming you're relieved because he had a lot of problems.

[Claire]

Yeah, because I, there was a few times I got him to go into therapy with me. There was a few times where I said I was done, I was ready to be done. And then it felt like when he finally agreed, he had always kind of talked to me. He like, talked me into staying with him. And when he finally kind of agreed, it was like I could finally be okay with it, if that makes sense.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, listen, I, I, I don't know if I'm able to solve your commitment issues today. Yeah. And I think it's something you're going to have to work through over time. I guess my, my feedback is you know, I'm not telling you what to spend your money on, and I understand there could be. Therapy can be expensive, but, like, I think what we deem as expensive can be a matter of perspective, like anything else.

[Claire]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, I don't know what you spend your money on, but if this sounds like something that's really impacted your life and continues to impact your life and is stopping you from having the life that you want, that seems like a pretty big deal.

[Claire]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And then. And with that in mind, I would. I would be willing to put a lot of resources towards solving that very big problem in your life, and I'd be willing to make sacrifices, not necessarily maybe for the kids, but maybe for you and other places that you're spending money on so that you could solve this more immediate problem so that you can therefore have a more fulfilling life. Sometimes you got to spend money to make money, you know what I'm saying? And like, and, and even, even from a money standpoint, hell, who knows, maybe you getting. Working through these issues with a good therapist that you connect with, you know, and, and really talk about. I mean, when you were in therapy, were you addressing your relationship with your father and your abandonment issues?

[Claire]

No, really, it was kind of postpartum more issues, so it wasn't linked with that.

[Nick]

So you've never really worked on this. It seems like there's a good chance this is part of the problem. And it's obviously affecting you. It's taking a lot of your mental energy. You're And. And then directly, and then indirectly, the energy that you're wasting on a bunch of men that you're in. Well, yeah, you're pushing away the good ones. You're fucking around with the bad ones. And again, like, I mean, imagine the money you could be making doing God knows what, you know? And so then all of a sudden when you say, well, I'm not sure if I could afford therapy, it's kind of like, well, you know, affords a relative term. You know, you're just. You have to reprioritize what you spend your money on and maybe reconsider the cost of not addressing this problem. And when you consider that maybe therapy is not as expensive as not addressing the problem. Problem.

[Claire]

Yeah, no, that completely makes sense. I want to go to therapy, and I feel like I try and use, like, techniques at home to sort of work through stuff myself. But you're right, having somebody to talk to would definitely help me.

[Nick]

Well, especially if you go out there dating to just say, hey, you know, like, you could Meet a guy and then all of a sudden you could like him and then you, you know, could whatever anxiousness or feelings that you. That come up, you know, when your abandonment issues rise up and maybe you pull away from the good ones. Maybe you would have a therapist there to say, I'm, I'm feeling. I'm feeling the feelings I'm feeling. And what I want to do is ghost and avoid and blah, blah, blah. But I don't know if. And maybe a good therapist can help you work through that. So it's something to consider.

[Claire]

I think that I need to. To work on myself for sure before I can bring somebody else into the picture. I mean, I tried dating somebody. It ended at the end of February last year. And he was very clingy, like, really needy. So I felt really overwhelmed. Yeah, very quickly by how much he was expecting to want me around and need me around. And yeah, maybe I could, A therapist could help me, like, figure out how to navigate that.

[Nick]

And maybe he. Maybe he was clingy and not your person. And, you know, that's, that's part of the problem with dating is, you know, you're. You go out there, you date, you got your own, and you meet someone else, they got their. You both got your shit. And so maybe, yeah, he, he was.

[Claire]

Definitely not my person. That's the thing is, like, when I find. When I do try and focus on the healthier side of finding somebody, when I do come up with an issue or a reason to call it off, I don't have regrets on it. But it's these guys that I'm being introduced to or I'm being set up with that I'm kind of blowing off really quickly, that those are the ones that I'll regret a couple weeks later. And I'm like, why did I do that? Or why am I getting in? Like, why am I allowing myself to get in my head so much and be so concerned with actually trying to meet somebody?

[Nick]

Is there anyone in particular you could reach back out to that you rejected in the past?

[Claire]

Yeah, there was somebody that I actually went to high school with him, but we weren't connected in high school. I just knew who he was. And the first year after my son was born, we went on a couple dates. But I was a brand new mom, that was my first child, and I just wasn't ready at that point to commit to something. I wasn't sure if I wanted a second. I didn't really know what was going on. So I kind of strung him along a little bit and then ended it. So I kind of figured he was pissed off. And then about a month ago, he reached out again to me to see how I am and if he could take me out. And I seemed. I felt excited that he reached out again and that he. That in interest was still there. But as soon as I kind of set a date, set a plan to meet up, I. I instantly got in my head and ended up canceling on him.

[Nick]

Okay, well, I'm not saying you should reach out to this guy because clearly, maybe you're just not in a position to do it. That being said, I mean, I don't know, you could just try being honest with him.

[Claire]

Well, I did. And the part I'm having trouble with is I sent him a message just kind of saying I'm not entirely sure that I'm looking for something right now. I'm not sure.

[Nick]

Well, that's not true. That's not. That's what I mean. That's not what I mean by Honestly. Honest. That's a. That's vague. What is that? I'm not. You are looking for something, but in.

[Claire]

That moment, I felt that way.

[Nick]

But that's not your problem. That's not. The truth is. The truth is, like, listen, to be honest, like, I got some shit I'm working through when it comes to relationships, and if I'm being really honest and vulnerable with you, and I'm just saying this at the risk of maybe scaring you away, I got some daddy issues, you know, And I got some fear.

[Claire]

So cliche.

[Nick]

It's a real thing. It's cliche. You know, unfortunately, and it blows me being a new dad. I like, I really. I'm really sorry. Your dad. About your dad. I just. It's this gross. I don't. I don't know how someone could not want. I mean, I don't know what your dad's done with his life, but you're. You're. You and your sister are two of the best things he's ever done. And he's never. I mean, what a loser.

[Claire]

I know. It kills me that my kids have a. A grandfather that they don't know about. So, like. And the way that I had kids, they don't. They'll. They don't have a grandpa on the other side.

[Nick]

Right.

[Claire]

So they have one grand, like, one grandparent, my mom, who's in the picture.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Claire]

So it's like.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, trust me, this. That this will impact your kids a lot less than it's impacted you. Your. Your kids will Be fine.

[Claire]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know. Yeah, that's. That's. You saying that is like you're still trying to deny how much this has you up, and you're almost. You know. But anyways, just know. I. I'm sorry. It's. It's cr. It's crazy, but that's what I mean by honest. I mean really honest with him.

[Stacy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You got. There's a lot of bad dads, unfortunately, there's a lot of absent fathers and. And fathers who were not. Didn't maybe do what your dad did, but we're just kind of. There's a lot of deadbeat dads, so daddy issues are a real. It's a real thing. Thing. But knowing you have them and recognizing is one step in the right direction. But anyways, I'm not saying you need to do this and, you know, but if you think this guy is maybe something there. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe. I doubt you've ever done that. I doubt you've ever been that honest with a guy.

[Claire]

I've definitely told them about my situation with my dad, but I think that until I had children, I don't think it quite impacted me the same way as it does. Maybe now that I have kids and they're, you know, it's. It's more emotional now to me that I'm a parent and I see how my parent treated me.

[Nick]

Yeah. Have you ever thought about writing your dad and tell him exactly how you feel?

[Claire]

No, I. I've thought about writing a letter. I listened to your podcast, so I've. I've thought about, you know, writing the letter whether I send it or not.

[Nick]

There you go.

[Claire]

But.

[Nick]

And I don't mean, like. I don't mean like a letter like, please, dad, love me. I mean, like, telling me how you feel. Vent to your father. Tell him exactly what you think of him. Get it out. I wouldn't necessarily write him and be like, fuck you, you're a piece of shit. But, like, let him know. It's like, listen, I. I don't know why you've never accepted us. I. Even to this day, I still wish you were in my life. And it breaks my heart to know that you're not. You don't want that. I don't know why you've chosen. It's very hurtful. It breaks my heart. If you ever change your mind, I'd love to have something. But, like. Like, yeah, I don't know, just tell him. But if you need it. What? Honestly, whatever the fuck you want to write, you should Write it. But my point is like, I did.

[Claire]

I did write him a letter when I was 18.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Claire]

So he, he checked out, moved away. I didn't see him through my whole high school years. And I did write him a letter at that time telling him basically all the things he missed out on in my life and kind of told him that I was separating myself from him. So he would have gotten that. Maybe he took it very literally and just felt like that's why he was never going to reach out again.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean that makes sense for an 18 year old to say that.

[Claire]

Yeah. Very emotional.

[Nick]

I mean, it's been 20 years. You have nothing to lose to personally write it without sending it. And you don't have anything to lose if you decide to send it. You already know what it's like to be rejected by your father. I would definitely send it with zero expectations. I don't, I don't expect much from this guy. He's kind of a loser.

[Claire]

But in fact, I don't even know his address. But anyways, I can find that.

[Nick]

Maybe you can figure that out if you really wanted to, but I really want you to get it out. But again, like I'm more importantly like, and I'm, you know, because I'm, I'm not a therapist, but I definitely think this is something you need to address with one. But yeah, as far as this one guy is relates, I, I don't even know this is a good idea, but I am curious. Yeah, I just don't. Like he reached out to you and you, you said yes and you might even come across as crazy and it might, it might put him off, but maybe not. You know, I could see a world where he's just, maybe at least he will understand it's not him. And you're just like, just be really raw with him and just say, hey, listen, I, I, I, this probably sounds crazy and I just, but I want you to know that like, as weird as it sounds, I kind of, I've thought about you a lot because like, like I wanted to say yes to you, but I, I'm just kind of dealing with some shit and I got some, I got some parental issues, I got some abandonment issues, I got some commitment issues. I need to work on that. I'm working on that. And I guess I have a fear of, but if, if you want to like very casually get together knowing that about me, I'm okay with it. But I just, I need to have very low expectations.

[Claire]

Yeah, we both, both times was like connecting on a Dating app. So like the first time I saw him on there and we were like, oh, we went to high school together. The second time he reached out like on about a month ago, was on Hinge, which I had my profile paused, but my married friend wanted to see what it was all about. I had it paused specifically because I felt like I was using Hinge kind of as an ego boost more than anything else. And he reached out because my profile had been unpaused. And that's how we kind of connected that way. And I feel like if I were to have ran into him at a bar or something like that and been able to just have that casual meetup, it would have gone completely different than almost the pressure I feel of setting a date and doing all these things. And I did kind of tell him that I think the first time what went wrong? What? That I felt really overwhelmed by, you know, being a mother and dating and having a full time job and all these things. So I did say, you know, I want to take this very casually, but he still kind of put the pressure on of, you know, messaging me every day and telling me I'm beautiful already and he hadn't even seen me. And so it just felt really overwhelming.

[Nick]

Okay, so maybe he's just a little too intense too. I don't know.

[Claire]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So, yeah, I don't know. Probably not your guy anyways. But I, I guess still you kind of have nothing to lose.

[Claire]

Maybe I should just go on a bunch of first dates to get my over my fear of it.

[Nick]

Well, I don't know. I really think you need to address this. These issues you have.

[Claire]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Because until you do, I don't know. I don't know what a bunch of first dates are going to do for you. That's true.

[Claire]

Just make me more confused.

[Nick]

I guess that's my biggest takeaway. It's you got a good heart, you, you, you have a good head on your shoulders, but you just have some shit you've never really dealt with. And like you said, now that you are a mom, these things that maybe, maybe when you were. I think it's always affected you, but maybe it's affected you a lot less and now it's really affecting you. And being a mom and having kids, you're even more triggered by the abandonment that your father brought into your life. And it's coming up in ways that you're not even realizing and it's just, it's never been addressed and you don't really have the tools to know how to do that.

[Claire]

Yeah. And I never really saw. Even when my parents were together, it wasn't healthy relationship. They slept in separate beds. They did all that. So I feel like I've also never really been privy to seeing how something can be long term. And so the idea of that does scare me because it's so foreign to me.

[Nick]

Yeah. Your dad's a loser. Sorry. I mean, there's a lot of them out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know a lot. I know a lot of them. Crazy. How's the relationship with mom?

[Claire]

Great. She's very supportive. I feel like almost too supportive in this single mom, independent side just because she kind of went through being that herself. So when I told her the way I wanted to have kids, she was. Was she. She pushed it a lot. She really liked that.

[Nick]

But did mom ever find love again?

[Claire]

Very supportive. She's dated a few people. I think the longest relationship was maybe like a year or two.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Claire]

But no.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Claire]

She's just solo.

[Nick]

I just.

[Claire]

Don't give me tough love.

[Nick]

It's not a co. It's not a coincidence. You know, I know your mom never dealt with how her shitty husband abandoned her. You haven't dealt with how your shitty dad abandoned you. And now you guys are almost kind of commiserating with another. And I can't help but wonder if you both, in some way. Ways are holding each other back. Because, you know, and I get it, you're. You're. You want to let each other know, hey, fuck it. We don't need the men. Fuck men. You know, we don't need. All we need is each other. And sure. And you've done a great job. You have. You. And if you never find a guy, you're going to. You're going to be an amazing mother, and your kids are going to be just fine. And they got you and they got grandma. But it's not about what you need, is about what you want and deserve. I know you deserve.

[Claire]

And I do want a partner.

[Nick]

Yeah, you deserve to have what you want. And you deserve the companionship that you desire. You deserve to have love, and you deserve to have someone that you can feel safe with, insecure with, who you feel taken care of, even if it's for a long period of time. You know, you. You deserve to find that again. And. And if I were you, I. Maybe. Maybe what? Maybe you and mom can do together. Therapy, you know?

[Claire]

Yeah, I don't think she would ever. My. My sister and I have kind of tried to push her to consider that, and I don't think that that's something that she.

[Nick]

Well, I doubt she's going to jump. Believes in old dog, new tricks, but I know maybe you won't do it together, but you, maybe you can show her how it's done.

[Claire]

I can learn.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Claire]

I definitely feel like that's something I've thought a lot about is like kind of have you my mom's life and where she's ended up and also do I want, want the same.

[Nick]

Be prepared for the possibility when you do work through this and let's say you're able to start having healthier male relationships in your life. Be prepared for mom to feel a wee bit threatened by that and push back and maybe it might come across as not supportive of your decisions.

[Claire]

She was like that with the guy I was engaged to a little bit. She always wanted me to be happy, but she was quick to jump when something went wrong.

[Nick]

Yeah, well, and that's. It's a, it's tough also to know the difference because also your past partner didn't sound like he was the biggest winner either. And your mom has a right to have an opinion about the men that you date. And. But yeah, so it's. If. I'm just saying if your mom does that, just don't take it personally. And, and, and, and don't let it get in your head. And that's where again, a good, healthy therapist, someone you trust and even there's not, you know, take your time getting a therapist. You know, make sure you really feel like they can hear you. I would look into EMDR trauma therapy. Again, I'm not, I don't know if you need that not diagnosing you, but it may be something to look in to see if it is something that could benefit you.

[Claire]

Can I ask a question about being a single mom by choice?

[Nick]

I could do my best answering it. I don't know what it's like to be a single mom.

[Claire]

I. Again, let's pretend I've worked through everything and I am getting back out there. I have been told by numerous men that I've tried to connect with or linked with that the way that I had kids is crazy and unattractive. So I'm curious on, do I tell somebody up front? Do I not tell again? Like, this is all, like, once I feel better about myself and I feel more established and I've worked through things, I'm just, I have that struggle of if I tell that share that side of my life and at what point I should.

[Nick]

That's a tough one because I am.

[Claire]

I Am told I'm crazy a lot.

[Nick]

Well, I don't think they're your person.

[Claire]

Yeah. Oh yeah. It definitely weeds them out very quickly.

[Nick]

So there's that. So you know, I think you just have to focus on that rather than feeling judged. But that's easier said than done. My guess is there's a good chance that when you're, when you're ready to actually date healthy, maybe someone who might be a couple years older than you, who maybe or has already had kids or doesn't want to have kids. Maybe someone not so much that doesn't want to have kids, but you still want to have. Cuz. Cuz if they date you in some ways they will.

[Claire]

Doesn't have their own.

[Nick]

Yeah. When do you tell them? I don't know. I don't think. Put it this way, it's one of those things where I don't think you owe anyone information that you're not ready to share, especially to strangers and people you're dating, especially early on are strangers. I also don't think it's something you need to hide because it does weed people out. But I think that question right now is harder for you to answer because you haven't worked through it, you know, so maybe in the future when you feel more healthy and more ready to date healthy. It's like a weird way to phrase this because you never want to suggest that you, you know, how you had your children was a mistake because it wasn't. But listen, like I was going through a period of my life where that's what made the most sense to me and I was very much ready to be a mom and I quite honestly just wasn't ready to write around for you or someone like you and I, you know, you're just like. I don't know what to say and I know it's not traditional but like I have. I'm not going to sit there and apologize for having the two best things I've ever had in my life, you know, And I really wanted to have kids and I had some, you know, issues when it came to men and dating and I had some daddy issues I didn't deal with. And this is where I'm at, you know, also it's like one of those things, you know, like religious people, super religious people. I think it would if you asked me, let's say you, you're a super religious person. Let's say a non negotiable would be that they wanted to maintain their faith with whoever their partner was. Well, to me it Would be a lot easier to meet someone if your choices were someone who was super religious but didn't share your religion or someone who wasn't really religious at all. I would go with the not really religious person. And the reason I'm bringing this up is what would you rather have a date? A mom who has an ex husband or an ex boyfriend or a baby daddy, which God knows how that's going to work out, or would you rather date a single mom who has two kids that there's just no dad there to worry about? Because I would choose the latter.

[Claire]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Nick]

So there's plenty of single moms out there. So listen, when. I wouldn't worry about that right now, but if that comes up. If men do call you crazy, you could get into. Every guy likes to argue and every guy loves to be proven wrong by women. They do. Men love it if they respect women. They get a little turned on when women prove them wrong. And if they don't respect women, then get emasculated and then fuck them. But yeah, you could be like, well, listen, I know it's not, not traditional and I know, but like funny single moms out there. And now I come baggage free. At least when it comes to exes.

[Claire]

That's a good way of putting it. Yeah.

[Nick]

So, you know, if you don't want to date a mom, no problem. But if I, you know, if you want to judge me for how I became a mom, then maybe consider why you're judging me. You know, because an open minded guy, it's just like it's, he's just not going to care.

[Claire]

Yeah, it's kind of become what's defined me. Like a lot of people, like my friends, if they're introducing me to somebody like even at a gathering, they'll be like, oh yeah, she's a sperm donor. Oh yeah, she's a single mom by choice.

[Nick]

Tell your friends to shut the up and style your friends to stop doing that. That doesn't define you. Like it's, it's not that crazy. You know something you wanted to do.

[Claire]

That, that clingy guy that I broke up with in February, he referred to me, he wouldn't use my name to his friends and he referred to me as single mom mom. And I was like, there's more to me than just that.

[Nick]

Well, sometimes we love to give people we date nicknames. You know, I dated a girl once my friends called bottle service girl Fair.

[Claire]

But yeah, that kind of has become.

[Nick]

She was very intelligent and I think now she sells Self software, but, you know, but yeah. My point is people love to give nicknames. It's just something friends do. Yeah, but as far as your friends, I, I would say something like, listen, I, you know, I'm not trying to sound, I don't, I'm not trying to not have a sense of humor, but like, like, I, I don't like to be identified that way. My kids are not a punchline.

[Claire]

Yeah, that's, Yeah, I like that.

[Nick]

I'd start getting comfortable setting that boundary. And you can do it very calmly. Like, listen, I, I, I get it. Like a lot of people have, but, like, it's just, I don't. That's how I chose to be a mother. And I don't, you know, I'm not, I'm not interested in that being a punchline.

[Claire]

Yeah. People are just so excited about it being so unique.

[Nick]

It is. Yeah. And I don't think most people say it to offend. It's just people, when they get uncomfortable with things they're not used to, they. This is what they do.

[Claire]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Nick]

Nothing wor. I mean, God, shitty exes and, and baby daddies and co parenting is very challenging on relationships, and that's not something anyone who wants to date you has to deal with.

[Claire]

I do like that. That I'm baggage free.

[Nick]

Yeah. All right.

[Claire]

Okay.

[Nick]

All right.

[Claire]

Well, thank you so much.

[Nick]

Biggest takeaway is reprioritize what, what you think you can afford and, and, and start considering the energy you are wasting by not solving and, and quite frankly, the money you could be making or just whatever you could be doing or, or what you're not doing because you're not solving this problem. And, and what, essentially, what is you not solving this problem costing you? And maybe therapy won't feel or sound that expensive, but.

[Claire]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely something I could fit into my budget. I just, I think like you said, I just need to shift that mentality.

[Nick]

I bet, I bet you spent some money on some other expensive things that haven't solved this problem that you could make.

[Claire]

No, all my money goes to my kids. I.

[Nick]

No, no, none. All your money.

[Claire]

Pretty much.

[Nick]

Okay. All right, well, I don't know. I'm sure your kids will be fine. Maybe there's one less toy they can get. I don't know. You know? You get what I'm saying?

[Claire]

Yeah, yeah, I get it.

[Nick]

Yeah. All right. Well, take care. And please, please, please keep us posted. I would love to, I would love to keep up.

[Claire]

Yeah, I'll let you know.

[Nick]

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[Miranda]

It's going good. My name is Miranda, I'm 27 and I'm wondering if I should end my six year relationship.

[Nick]

Okay, is this a boyfriend, Girlfriend, Girlfriend, Girlfriend, married situation? Who is it?

[Miranda]

Boyfriend. We've been together for six years. We met when I was working. We were both working in the same office and we kind of hit it off as friends and here we are six years later.

[Nick]

Okay, why are you considering leaving them?

[Miranda]

I've been doing a lot of self work and a lot of like really evaluating the relationship and seeing it for what it is. And last year we kind of went through a really hard time where we both were going through career changes. He lost his job and I was going to school and it was all very chaotic and I decided that I should move out from one, from living together. We were living together for almost two years and I moved out because I really was noticing that we weren't having a lot of dates. We were both kind of living in two different realities and I kind of lost myself. I lost who I was. I was a person. I didn't recognize myself almost and I moved out making that decision and really I wanted to break up at the time but I saw how heartbroken he was so I stayed. Now a year later I'm moving. I've been living with my parents and I just feel so content with where I'm at career wise. And he got a great job as well but. But I feel like he still doesn't have. He's not grateful for it or he doesn't appreciate it. And I really am working towards my career, and I really am noticing that he just. He has a very narrow mindset.

[Nick]

Well, you said something interesting. Is that like. Well, you basically not. You literally said you. You stayed together because you felt bad for him.

[Miranda]

Yeah, I felt emotionally responsible. I love him. He's a great guy.

[Nick]

As a person or you're in love with him?

[Miranda]

I love him as a person, and I would like to think I'm in love with him. I feel like when we. When I did move out and then he started planning dates and he was really, like, going extra and really doing that, I feel like I was like, okay, we have a spark back. Like, we, like, finally together. But then as now a year later has progressed, I almost feel like we've fallen into that pattern where it's like, we're too comfortable. And now he's not doing the things that he was doing before. And then now I'm just like, now with an open mind and not an open mind, but an open perspective of. I'm realizing, wait, like, now it's. We're going back to the same routine.

[Nick]

So other than like, losing the spark and him maybe getting a little complacent, like, how is he? What's his character? Or how is he as a. How does he treat you?

[Miranda]

He treats me good, but I feel like sometimes he doesn't understand me. Like, maybe my humor or maybe how I think sometimes.

[Nick]

And why do you say that? Because he doesn't, like, laugh at your jokes or is he putting you down or is he criticizing you?

[Miranda]

Kind of like laughing at my jokes. But also, he said something last Wednesday, which I thought was kind of weird. He said. We were talking. It was a conversation about age. And I was telling him that by 35, I hope to be in a better position than I am career wise. Like, where I'm at in my goals in life. And he said, oh, by 35, you'll be dead. Which I know he was joking, but it was almost like, do you really think like that? Or is.

[Nick]

What do you mean by you'd be dead? Is he going to kill you or.

[Miranda]

Well, we talk about age in the sense, like, no, not. Not like that. Hopefully not. But it's more of like he. He has a bad relationship with age and he thinks aging is bad. Like, 40 or, like, done. He just turned 30.

[Nick]

Where. What part of the country do you guys live?

[Miranda]

Florida.

[Nick]

I mean, I guess it's just like a. I mean, also his perspective on it. How old are you?

[Miranda]

I'm 27.

[Nick]

Okay. You know, I don't know, I guess it's something an immature 30 year old would say. I don't think it's that big.

[Miranda]

But even then I was thinking like, why would he, I don't know, I almost felt like he was putting his idea onto me.

[Nick]

What are your relationship goals?

[Miranda]

Well, I'd hope to be married. I don't want children, so neither of us do want children really. Living together again and having that relationship of marriage. I mean I wanted to get married, but now I don't know if I do.

[Nick]

Especially with him. If you're okay with me asking. And again, it's totally great that you don't, but I am curious. Why did you. I'm just curious why you don't, you know, you don't want children.

[Miranda]

I never wanted kids when I was younger, I never wanted kids. Even now I, I have a nephew and he's the greatest thing in the world. But I, it's a lot to raise a child and another like one thing too. I feel like if I were to have a child, I would want to be with someone who was very giving because I am a giving person and my boyfriend, he self proclaims himself pretty selfish. And as I am as well with my time, I could still be able to give that time to a child.

[Nick]

Okay, yeah, just be open to who knows when it comes to that stuff.

[Miranda]

I've been having a more open mind about that.

[Nick]

Like, I don't want to push anything on you. It's not really, I guess I'm just, that's why I asked because it didn't seem, you know, like, well, because I don't want to have kids when I was younger. So that makes sense. You also seem very career motivated, so that's very cool and that makes a lot of sense. But the fact that you said like, oh, it's like now that you're also dating someone who doesn't necessarily want to have kids and the self proclaimed selfish person. And you said, well, if I, if I were to want to have kids, it would be with someone who was X, Y or Z. If you're going to, if you consider the if that tells me that like, yeah, maybe it's like, well, I don't want to have a kid with this person. And that makes a lot of sense. Right? And maybe, you know, I've had a lot of friends who like swore they would never have kids and they were all in like shitty relationships and then they met someone healthy and good and you know, they have three kids and love being a parent, you know. So just be open minded to what you. The future. But that's great that it's not a priority for you. But as far as your career, what are your goals there?

[Miranda]

Well, I'm still an apprentice in what I do. So once I finish that, which will probably be in a B in about six months, then I get to fully work and get clients on my own and start promoting myself in the industry that I.

[Nick]

How did he handle you guys moving out?

[Miranda]

Terribly. Yeah, it was pretty bad. He was emotional the whole time. I was as well. He. He was very broken up about it.

[Nick]

Okay. What do you admire most about him?

[Miranda]

I admire that he's patient. Yeah.

[Nick]

How so?

[Miranda]

Is he patient Lately now, if I am upset, he's more patient of understanding and being that way. But also just like in life almost, I feel like he's patient, but almost I feel like he's also nonchalant.

[Nick]

What do you mean?

[Miranda]

So, like in moving out, like, I don't. I don't see. Like he has goals and moving out and doing stuff like that or going up the ladder, let's say, and work wise, like, he's almost cool about just being neutral. So I.

[Nick]

Sometimes I. You find that unattractive?

[Miranda]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. Well, my next question. My next question was going to be, what's something that you feel like you're missing from him that you find attractive in men?

[Miranda]

Probably passion.

[Nick]

A passion over ambition and.

[Miranda]

Passion. Ambition. Just something feeling like you are passionate about what you're doing. Not necessarily ambitious.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Miranda]

But I feel like they both kind of work hand in hand.

[Nick]

Does he know how you feel about that?

[Miranda]

I feel like we had a conversation last year about him doing more for the relationship, but I didn't really speak up about him having to have a passion or goals or et cetera, because I don't want to for. I don't know. I feel like I don't.

[Claire]

I don't know.

[Miranda]

I just. I didn't know. That's not something that I talked to him about.

[Nick]

I don't know how well he'll take it, but.

[Miranda]

Because I don't want to feel like exactly like I'm putting him down, that he doesn't have anything. Goals like that. I don't.

[Nick]

Yeah, it's a tough one, but it's. You know, sometimes tough love is necessary, you know.

[Miranda]

Yeah. I feel like that's kind of almost like mothering him in a way.

[Nick]

Well, not necessarily. All depends on how you handle it.

[Miranda]

Right.

[Nick]

The. At the same time, though, like, this might just Be who he is. I don't know how coachable ambition is or passion is what motivates your boyfriend.

[Miranda]

Honestly, I don't know.

[Nick]

Well, okay, what's he think?

[Stacy]

I'm lost.

[Nick]

What's he into?

[Miranda]

He's kind of a gamer.

[Nick]

Do you think you can, like. Let's just be real here. Let's not worry about feelings. Do you think you can do better?

[Miranda]

I think so. Yeah.

[Nick]

Maybe you should fuck around and find out.

[Miranda]

Oh, my God, that's scary.

[Nick]

Well, be the person you want your partner to be. And do you want your partner to cower over something that's a little scary? Do you want to have someone who can rise to the challenge and face their fears or. You know, it's hard to judge your boyfriend for not having ambition when you're, like, too scared to date.

[Miranda]

I mean, also. I guess, like, it also makes. I have to be the one to. If I want to have, like, power motivation, like, I would have to be the one to make that power move. I guess it's hard because I've never really broken up with. I've never broken up with someone like that. So it's kind of scary to do that and be the consequence of someone's heartbreak.

[Nick]

Yeah, it's. It's fine. He'll live. You know, I don't know. You two are not that fragile. And honestly, like, here's some tough. I mean, you guys, both of you, maybe need to grow up a little bit. You shouldn't be with someone because you don't want to break up with them, and you're not doing them any favors by staying with them. And, you know, you're kind of dating a. A little bit of a loser, maybe. It sounds like I say that in a harsh way.

[Miranda]

I probably have seen him in that light of, like, he's. There's not really much going on.

[Nick]

Yeah. And he's comfortable with that. And yet good for him, you know, but that's not what you want for yourself. You're. You sound like an ambitious person. You have more goals for yourself than your firm. He's holding you back. It almost sounds like. And someone. The way you're described. I've never. You know, I've never met. You bet. Your boyfriend, obviously. And so maybe I'm being a little too hard. You know, maybe if his family was listening, they would be like, don't talk about our boy that way. You don't know how great he is, but, you know, you're just like, he's not. He is not helping you be a Better person? Doesn't sound like it. And it sounds like maybe he's holding you back from, you know, and someone like him. If he's not an ambitious person and he's very comfortable accepting, average, that's fine, you know, but it's not fine for you. And he honestly deserves someone who has the same kind of general complacency with wanting more for themselves. It's a threat to him for you to want more because he's not interested in having more. He's not interested in giving you more. So the only way to combat that is convince you to not want more for yourself.

[Miranda]

Kind of sucks. When we first started dating, he did have goals, and then they just all. All faded.

[Nick]

Do you ever have a conversation with him about that? I mean, that's the one thing before you break up with this guy that, you know, is it worth at least a conversation to be like, what happened to the. Like, to that guy? I.

[Miranda]

We did have a conversation about it probably like maybe a year or so ago, maybe two.

[Nick]

What's he do for work?

[Miranda]

He works in tourism.

[Nick]

Could you be more specific?

[Miranda]

He works for a cruise line.

[Nick]

Doing what?

[Miranda]

Purchasing.

[Nick]

What? Like he. He sells.

[Miranda]

He buys the fixtures, furniture.

[Nick]

Second money.

[Stacy]

Decent.

[Nick]

And is that, like, if you were to ask him, like, if that. If he could have this job for the rest of his life, would he do it?

[Miranda]

I don't think so.

[Nick]

So what does he want to do? So then maybe he has some ambition.

[Miranda]

He doesn't. I don't know. I feel like maybe he kind of just doesn't express himself a lot in that way. And I'm noticing that. I've been noticing that for a while. He almost doesn't like to talk about hard subjects when it comes to, like, probably, like, jobs or goals and stuff like that. I'm noticing he really doesn't like to talk about any of that. He's like, oh, like, oh, we're having dinner right now. Like, it's not the time. I wanted to have a good time.

[Nick]

I mean, listen, it's hard for, you know, should you leave this relationship, which is why you called in, you are making a convincing argument that it might be worth you testing the waters of seeing what else is out there. It's a good chance he'll probably take you back if you change your mind. So you got that going for you. There's a good chance it might wake him up. It's also part of me, like, the fact that you, you know, I, you know, I asked if you had a conversation. You're like, well, I don't want to feel like his mother, but I can't help but like think that you like already kind of are.

[Miranda]

And that's why I feel like I can't leave.

[Nick]

Well, that's a problem. I mean, you're not his mother. There's that.

[Miranda]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So like, this is kind of a weird, codependent relationship and you have each other and he has you and it's comfortable and he's there and you know, it's like you want more for yourself. There is something inside you telling you this isn't enough. And as a 27 year old woman with a lot of goals for herself, you're a beautiful woman. Maybe see if there is something better for yourself.

[Miranda]

I mean, I work in a really good area and I know there's a lot of potential there and etc. But yeah, I guess it's just the fear that, the comfortability that I have.

[Nick]

I asked if you thought you could do better and in less than a second you said yes. Yeah, I mean, I guess if nothing else, there's your answer. And yeah, he'll cry. He'll be, he'll be fine. You're not his mom. You're not responsible for his emotions and his feelings or his heart. He's not your husband. You haven't made a lifelong commitment to him. It sounds like in some ways you've tried to communicate your frustrations to him. He sounds like he has generally avoided or dismissed those conversations. You did something pretty drastic, which is to move out and that didn't seem to shake things up for him. He's a complacent person and you're not. And so it's just maybe a compatibility thing, you know? Right. Like, I'm not trying to be harsh on the guy by saying maybe he's kind of a loser, but like, you know, it's just, maybe he's just not compatible. You know, it sounds like he's a pretty good guy and you enjoy his company and it's been, been, it's been generally a pretty nice six years. But something in your heart is saying, I, I want more for myself. There's more in life for me to accomplish and experience and, and on some levels he has hold me back and people hold people back all the time. You know, like the reality is if I stayed with my very first girlfriend, I wouldn't be here today. You know, I'd be living in Waukesha, Wisconsin, you know, because she was never going to leave. Now there's a lot of other reasons why we didn't work out, but, you know. And listen, people make a lot of sacrifices for love all the time. Also, you have the right to chase your dreams, and you have the right to expect your partner to support those dreams. And a part of a relationship is learning about each other's dreams and ambitions and doing your best to make both come true. And then, yeah, you find the compromises. But, like, I always had big dreams. I always, always wondered what I could accomplish. And the idea of not ever leaving where I grew up is something that didn't sit well with me. It wasn't necessarily about leaving, but I just. When I was living in Wisconsin as a young adult, I always wished more for myself. Other people who I grew up with didn't, and that's fine, too. And they're happy. I'm happy. We want different things, and you want different things for yourself than he does.

[Miranda]

I guess I see that pattern with my. With my family, of the complacency and just being together. And I see that. And I said to myself a long time ago that I would not be with a man if I wasn't engaged for five years. And I'm six years, and now that I'm not engaged, I'm kind of almost happy. I'm not sure.

[Nick]

Yeah. You know, I will say one thing. You know, I've learned. Stop with these, like, weird, weird artificial deadlines and rules.

[Miranda]

I know I said this when I was younger because I saw that with my family.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, we do like that when we're young, but we were doing. We say things like that to our young. But the more I talk to you, the more I'm hearing is you have some dreams and ambitions for yourself, that your boyfriend and maybe even your surroundings are, you know, holding you back. You can always go home, so to speak, both literally and metaphorically, you know, so maybe as a still pretty relatively young person, now would be a great time to take those. It's the older you get, the harder it is to take risks. And the fact that you don't know how to break up with someone. I think if I were you, I would, for no other reason, challenge yourself to do that. Because, yeah, it is sometimes tough to break someone's heart and disappoint people we care about. And you care about them. I think you need to trust your gut and. And I guess more than anything. And your gut sounds like your gut's telling you you could do better.

[Miranda]

I feel like my gut told me that last year, but I wasn't ready.

[Nick]

You chicken out Stop chickening out. So be stronger than your boyfriend.

[Miranda]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So, yeah.

[Claire]

Be like a bigger man.

[Nick]

Be the bigger man. There you go. Now know that if you break up up, you know, that has its own challenges. You're going to feel lonely, you're going to feel bored. You're definitely going to. Is, you know, you're going to probably want to reach out for companionship. He will definitely always want to take you back. The selfless thing to do would be to not allow him back in just because you're lonely or bored or give him false hope.

[Miranda]

Just like completely no contact.

[Nick]

Yeah. And move on. And at least try, you know, at least get out there and give yourself a good two years. Most people go back with their exes because, you know, people break up all the time, like yourself because deep down they think they can do better. And a lot of times they get back together with their exes because not because they didn't find better, because they lacked the patience to find what they knew they deserve.

[Miranda]

And I feel like I'm comfortable with the patience in that because the partner that I do eventually want to have is going to have a lot of qualities that I hope to five Ellis.

[Nick]

But yeah, you, I think you want to. I think you need to maybe look, prioritize ambition and someone is career motivated. Is this career motivated as you are right now? You just have. You haven't found your equal, it sounds like. And I'd be curious what you thought about life once you did six years. You've been dating this guy since you were 21. So essentially your entire adult life.

[Miranda]

Yes.

[Nick]

And it doesn't sound like he's brought up the best in you. And I'd be curious what you're capable. Forget about boyfriends. If you break up with this guy. I would like you to focus on in meeting people, women, men, doesn't matter. And I want you to surround yourself with people who have similar interests and passions as you do. And I'd put dating aside for just a brief moment and to see how things change the more you surround yourself with people who want similar things for themselves as you want for yourself, because your boyfriend does not. Your boyfriend's content and comfortable and he is hoping that you share in his contentment. And you don't.

[Miranda]

I lost a lot of friends actually when I, when I started dating him. Like I did kind of isolate myself and I've now rekindled with those friends and I'm almost seeing like the part of me that I. That I lost.

[Nick]

Boss. Yeah. I would maybe break out with him and be single for a minute. Yeah, just yolo, you know, Meet some boys, have some fun. Are you in a, like, a small city? Big city, Small town. Big city, big city. Okay, so you certainly have a lot of options to meet people. That's for sure. Yeah. So listen, I'm not going to tell you to break up with someone, but I am going to tell you to trust your gut and your. I think your gut is leaning in that direction. Direction.

[Miranda]

How soon should I bring this up?

[Nick]

Whenever you get the courage. It's never going to be easy. I mean, I don't know, rip the Bandit off. Does he know this is coming?

[Miranda]

I feel like he senses I'm pulling away.

[Nick]

If anything else, maybe you could at least try to have that conversation. Just keep it real with him, you know, like, listen, I want. I have a lot of goals, and I have a lot of ambitions, and you seem pretty content, and I don't even want to criticize you for that. I just don't know if we're compatible. I'm on the fence whether you should waste your time having this conversation to. Because, like, he's just going to be. He doesn't want to break up with you, and he's going to say things. Oh, please. You know, and I. I just don't think you can coach this. He's. Maybe he just might not be this person. And you don't want him to change for you. You know, you want him to wake up and want something better for himself. He's only going to do it for you right now. If he wanted it for himself, he would have probably done it already.

[Miranda]

Exactly.

[Nick]

Exactly. Now when you break up with him, he's definitely going to want to know why, and that's going to be the hard part.

[Miranda]

That's what I'm scared about. It's like telling him that straight up.

[Nick]

You have to be okay with being the bad guy. You have to be okay with him hating you and talking some shit, and that's okay. He has the right to do that. He's going to be hurt. That's his journey. But let him. Him. You know, let him hurt. He'll get over it. You're not doing him any favors by staying with someone you pity. It's kind of pathetic for both of you.

[Miranda]

And that's for. Yeah, for sure.

[Nick]

No one. No one's benefiting from that.

[Miranda]

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want him to stay with me out of pity.

[Nick]

So I wouldn't say that. I mean, I'm only with you because of Pity. That's just kind of mean. I would say. I would be. Generally, we want. I think we want different things. I just. I don't feel like we're just moving in the same direction. You know, I don't really feel supported in my career, and, you know, we've been with each other for six years, and I just. I want more for myself. And that might feel a little harsh to him, but that's honest. And I think it's. It kind of. You say that he's going to want to talk, and he's going to want to have multiple conversations. He's going to want to convince you. I would give him one good conversation, but I. You know, and it's going to sound harsh. It's going to. He's going to. All his friends are going to hate you for it because he's going to be like, I did it for six years. She gave me one conversation. She just is like, I don't know. She just said we wanted different things, and that was it. And what a bitch. You know, that's how. That's what he's going to say. You know what I'm saying? But, like, honestly, when it comes to breaking up, the selfless thing to do is, you don't be mean. Right? You know, you don't say things that you know will hurt him. You know, because you know what it's like. You know what it's like to be mad and say things you know will hurt someone. You don't do that. But you. You can be honest, you know, and you have the right to share how you feel, and. And you want different things than him, and you don't think you're as compatible as you used to be. I need to do this for myself. I need to see what else is out there. I need to challenge myself, and I need to do this. And I am. I'm sorry, but we need to break up.

[Miranda]

Honestly, I need, like, hobbies. I need to continue doing what I'm doing.

[Claire]

And.

[Nick]

Yeah, don't sugarcoat it. Don't be like, well, maybe. I don't know, Like, I don't know, maybe we can. I don't. Maybe this is, like, not a break. Don't give him. Don't give him false hope. Be pretty direct. If he doesn't hate you or sound like he hates you. After the breakup, you probably haven't been as direct as you should be.

[Miranda]

Oh, God. Okay.

[Nick]

But you got to rip the bandaid off because it's honestly torture to just kind of, like, slow play a Breakup and breadcrumb. A break up because you don't have the guts to just rip the band aid off.

[Miranda]

I feel like he didn't even beg when I left from the apartment, in a sense, so I don't know how, if he'll even try. I think he'll just.

[Nick]

Well, that's irrelevant. That's your ego. Who gives a. Because begging, That's. That. That's not him changing. That's him being desperate. So we don't care if he tries. We don't want him to try. We just want him to accept your decision vision. I'm just trying to prepare you for all possible outcomes. Because if you do decide to do this, I want you to do it with a clear conscience. And you can feel bad for him and. But it's not your job to check in. It's not your job to make sure he's okay. You're not his therapist. You're not. There's. You're not. As an emotional support system. And once you break up with him, you're no longer his girlfriend. So, you know, if he just wants to talk one more time over a cup of coffee, you say no. And you quickly. I would pack up his. Whatever that you have of his. You have it ready to go. And that's gonna feel real cold, but that's what you should do.

[Miranda]

I have stuff over there at his house still, so I gotta pack that up.

[Nick]

How much of that do you have? What do you need?

[Miranda]

It was just like, leftover stuff, but.

[Nick]

Whatever it is, make sure that trans. Don't let that hang on. Don't, like, get that right away. Don't allow him to use it as a way to reach it back out to you in three weeks.

[Claire]

Right.

[Nick]

All right. Do you think you're gonna do it?

[Miranda]

I think so. I mean, I want to.

[Nick]

I don't want to keep lingering. There you go. I want you. This is your. I want you to make sure this is your decision. But it sounds like it is. It's not. You know, you want to. That's a. That's a pretty strong statement.

[Miranda]

It's.

[Stacy]

It's just.

[Miranda]

Yeah, I just. I guess I do feel just emotionally responsible.

[Nick]

And you're not.

[Miranda]

I don't accept that. He needs to work out.

[Nick]

You have. You have a new lovely dog to take care of.

[Miranda]

Yes. I can take her to the park. Get busy with her.

[Nick]

All right, well, good luck. Please keep us posted. We are all dying to know if you do end up doing it, and we would like to know how it all goes. Down.

[Miranda]

All right, I will let you guys know.

[Nick]

Okay, Good luck.

[Miranda]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Bye.

[Stacy]

Have a good one.

[Nick]

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