E851 Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays

Summary

The Viall Files - Episode E851: Ask Nick - Homewrecking For The Holidays

Release Date: December 9, 2024

In this episode of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall addresses three listeners' relationship concerns, providing candid advice and actionable insights to help navigate complex emotional landscapes. The episode delves into themes of emotional affairs, insecurities in marriage, and the challenges of rekindling past relationships. Below is a detailed summary of each segment.

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1. Megan's Emotional Affair Dilemma ([01:18] - [56:51])

Issue Presented: Megan, a 36-year-old listener, reaches out seeking advice on ending an emotional affair. Despite recognizing that the relationship with a long-term committed man is unhealthy, she struggles to distance herself due to lingering feelings and a desire to maintain some form of connection.

Key Points & Discussions:

• Understanding Emotional Affairs: Megan explains that her relationship with a friend began professionally but evolved beyond friendship, despite the man's existing committed relationship.

• Conflict Between Desire and Well-being: Megan articulates her internal struggle between wanting to maintain the friendship and recognizing that the relationship is causing her distress.

• Nick's Insights on Boundaries: Nick emphasizes the importance of setting and enforcing personal boundaries to protect one's self-respect. He challenges Megan to recognize that walking away, though painful, is necessary for her well-being.

• Self-Validation vs. External Validation: The conversation highlights Megan's reliance on external validation from unavailable men, leading to repetitive unhealthy relationship patterns.

• Practical Steps to Move Forward:

  • Blocking and Cutting Ties: Nick advises Megan to block the individual on social media and delete his contact information to prevent ongoing temptation and emotional turmoil.
  • Focus on Self-Worth: Encouraging Megan to value herself independently of external affirmation, fostering self-validation over seeking approval from others.
  • Therapeutic Intervention: Nick recommends that Megan delve deeper into her patterns with a therapist to address underlying insecurities and break free from the cycle of unhealthy relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Megan ([02:32]): "It's not serving me anymore, but I can't seem to be like, bye, I'm never going to speak to you again kind of thing."
• Nick ([03:56]): "It's not possible to be just friends with someone you have elevated feelings for."
• Nick ([10:00]): "If this person is serious about how he really feels about you, enforce the boundary."

Conclusion: Nick underscores the necessity of self-respect and the courage to make difficult decisions for personal growth. Megan is encouraged to prioritize her well-being by severing ties with the emotional affair and seeking professional help to understand and alter her relationship patterns.

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2. Sylvia's Insecurities and Jealousy in Marriage ([61:27] - [80:49])

Issue Presented: Sylvia, a 43-year-old listener, seeks guidance on overcoming insecurities and jealousy towards other women in her marriage. Her jealousy stems from both personal insecurities and past relationship traumas.

Key Points & Discussions:

• Root Causes of Jealousy: Sylvia identifies that her jealousy is a combination of inherent insecurities and negative experiences from past relationships, including her first marriage.

• Impact of Past Experiences: Her early relationships involved mutual jealousy, which has evolved into a more self-sabotaging behavior in her current marriage.

• Current Relationship Dynamics: Sylvia describes a supportive and stable relationship, yet internal insecurities cause her to question her husband's fidelity and her own self-worth.

• Nick's Analysis:

  • Recognition of Patterns: Nick identifies that Sylvia’s jealousy originates from deep-seated insecurities and suggests that she gains a form of emotional stimulation from these feelings.
  • Importance of Communication: Emphasizes the need for Sylvia to communicate her feelings openly with her husband rather than suppressing them.
  • Therapeutic Recommendations: Strongly advises Sylvia to engage more deeply in therapy to unpack and address the root causes of her insecurities and jealousy.

• Strategies for Overcoming Jealousy:

  • Self-Validation: Encourages Sylvia to find validation within herself rather than relying on external affirmation.
  • Changing Perspectives: Suggests reframing her thoughts to recognize her husband's daily choice to remain committed, reinforcing her sense of being chosen.
  • Setting Healthy Boundaries: Advises Sylvia to establish boundaries with herself, such as limiting the time spent on activities that trigger jealousy (e.g., stalking ex-partners online).

Notable Quotes:

• Sylvia ([62:12]): "This is me, this is my internal whatever."
• Nick ([67:25]): "You must control it more than you realize."
• Nick ([71:25]): "Your thoughts and feelings are going to evolve."

Conclusion: Nick emphasizes the necessity for Sylvia to confront and address her insecurities through professional therapy. By understanding the origins of her jealousy and developing self-validation techniques, Sylvia can work towards a healthier self-perception and a more secure relationship.

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3. Hannah's Doubts About Rekindling Her Relationship ([84:09] - [129:27])

Issue Presented: Hannah, a 24-year-old listener, questions whether reuniting with her ex-boyfriend, whom she moved across the country to live with, was a mistake. She grapples with feelings of being undervalued and unsupported in her efforts to nurture the relationship.

Key Points & Discussions:

• Rekindling the Relationship: Hannah and her boyfriend reconnected after a six-month breakup and have been together for about a year. She moved across the country to live with him, investing significant effort into the relationship.

• Imbalance in Effort: Despite initiating plans and making substantial sacrifices, Hannah feels that her boyfriend lacks the same level of effort, particularly highlighted during the move where he did not assist her.

• Differences in Life Goals and Maturity:

  • Hannah's Independence vs. Boyfriend's Privilege: Coming from an independent background, Hannah contrasts her efforts with her boyfriend’s reliance on his wealthy family, leading to feelings of inequality.
  • Future Aspirations: Differences in desires regarding children and career ambitions create tension and uncertainty about long-term compatibility.

• Nick's Insights:

  • Assessing Compatibility: Nick suggests that Hannah evaluate whether her boyfriend is willing to grow and adapt within the relationship.
  • Communication of Expectations: Emphasizes the importance of clearly communicating expectations and ensuring mutual understanding and effort.
  • Balancing Independence and Partnership: Advises Hannah to find a balance between maintaining her independence and fostering a collaborative partnership.

• Practical Advice:

  • Setting Relationship Goals: Nick recommends that Hannah and her boyfriend establish shared goals and work collaboratively towards them to strengthen their connection.
  • Evaluating Core Differences: Encourages Hannah to assess whether the fundamental differences in their backgrounds and life goals are reconcilable or indicative of deeper incompatibilities.
  • Patience and Growth: Acknowledges that both partners are still maturing and that with patience and intentional effort, the relationship can evolve positively.

Notable Quotes:

• Hannah ([84:38]): "I've been really good about everything, but I feel like he's not putting in the effort I need."
• Nick ([86:59]): "You might be better matched with someone who is a little bit more further along in life in their maturity."
• Nick ([117:00]): "You have to accept where he is to a certain level."

Conclusion: Nick advises Hannah to critically evaluate the dynamics of her relationship, focusing on mutual effort and compatibility in life goals. By setting clear expectations, fostering open communication, and assessing whether her boyfriend is willing to grow alongside her, Hannah can determine the viability of continuing the relationship or if it may be healthier to part ways.

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Final Insights: Across the episode, Nick Viall underscores the significance of self-respect, clear communication, and the importance of addressing underlying emotional issues through professional help. Whether dealing with emotional affairs, personal insecurities, or relationship compatibility, the recurring theme is the empowerment of individuals to prioritize their well-being and foster healthy, respectful relationships.

Notable Overall Quotes:

• Nick ([10:42]): "Boundaries are not something you do mutually... it's up to the individual to enforce it."
• Nick ([18:41]): "If you have to set a boundary, maybe you shouldn't be these types of friends."
• Nick ([42:03]): "It really comes down to your self-respect."

By navigating these conversations with empathy and practical advice, Nick Viall provides listeners with the tools to make informed and emotionally healthy decisions in their personal relationships.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Megan]

My name is Megan and I am 36 and I need to end my emotional affair.

[Nick]

What do you mean by emotional affair?

[Megan]

I have developed a close relationship with a friend that initially started as a working relationship, so professional relationship. And then over time we just became closer and closer and have definitely bordered past the friendship level. And he is in a long term committed relationship.

[Nick]

Okay, you are in your relationship statuses.

[Megan]

I am single.

[Nick]

Okay. Okay. So this started. You. You work with this person?

[Megan]

I worked with him in a certain capacity. We no longer work together professionally.

[Nick]

Gotcha. Does that have anything to do with the relationship or is that just.

[Megan]

Nope, it was a transactional thing.

[Nick]

So gotcha.

[Megan]

The work part of it was done and then we still maintained a friendship.

[Nick]

Okay. And I guess what part are you struggling with?

[Megan]

The actual letting go of the situation. You know, all of my friends or people that I talk to about this situation are like, he's treating you very disrespectfully. He's not being respectful to his relationship. Just end it, walk away. But I still want to have him in my life in some type of capacity and I've tried to do that but different things keep happening. Different situations keep happening where you know, people get upset or a situation goes a little too far. And you know, it just is not. It's not serving me anymore, but I can't seem to be like, bye, I'm never going to speak to you again kind of thing.

[Nick]

Feelings for this individual.

[Megan]

Oh, yes, 100%.

[Nick]

Well, that's the why.

[Megan]

Yeah. Well, and I know that he has feelings for me as well, but obviously he is in a relationship. So he.

[Nick]

Is he married? No, he just has a girlfriend.

[Megan]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay. I mean, still, like.

[Megan]

And I. And I've said that to him too. I'm like, if you wanted to, you would. And. And yeah, I mean, and he. He hasn't, so he doesn't want to. And I. And I have come to terms with that to an extent, but I still. In my life as my friend. But our relationship is not.

[Nick]

But you don't.

[Megan]

Platonic.

[Nick]

Yeah, that's the thing. You don't. Right. And so he's not your friend. You know, Natalie, my wife is my best friend, obviously. Of course. Right. But, like, that is not the core of our relationship. Right. It's disingenuous for ourselves to pretend that we can be just friends with people that we have elevated feelings for that go beyond a friendship. Right. I understand. You know, listen, you. You like this person. There are moments it sounds like he's added value to your life, you know, in the short term. But obviously, given how he's handling this, you've recognized that it's, you know, it's causing you more frustration, disappointment. It's questioning your own, I'm guessing, integrity and character as you kind of entertain certain things that he's doing. Knowing that, like, it's, it's, you know, it's. It's affecting your conscience. But that being said, like, yeah, I get desire. I guess the point is you have to recognize that you walking away from this situation that, you know, isn't right or healthy for you, big picture wise, that you're going to be sad about it, that you will miss aspects of the relationship you have with him, you know, just like any breakup, you know, to a certain extent.

[Megan]

Yeah. You know, and it definitely feels like a breakup to me.

[Nick]

Yeah. And I think.

[Megan]

Because of the emotional aspect of it.

[Nick]

Yeah, exactly. And I think that's okay for you to acknowledge and mourn to a certain degree because, like, that's better off than trying to, like, do these mental gymnastics in your head about, like, well, you know, I really like him and if I could just figure out a way to have him in my life, you know, in a way that doesn't, like, make me question you. Know if I'm doing the right thing or not. And doesn't make me question whether he's doing the right thing or not. And then we somehow we can magically figure out how to do that. Then we can be friends. And I, like, it's just not possible, you know? And, like, I mean, that's what I've.

[Megan]

Been trying to do is, Is take sort of a. A step back and be like, okay, we're not gonna speak every day as we have. I'm not gonna see you multiple times a week. I'm gonna try and make this more of a friendship that's like, we talk at a. On a regular cadence. And I've been trying to, like, let me ask you get through that, but it's.

[Nick]

I hear you on that. But let me ask you this. How would it make you feel if you knew at the end of the day, like, he was using you to fill in the gaps he's missing in his relationship?

[Megan]

Oh, I 100% think that he is doing that.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Megan]

And it doesn't make me feel great. And the thing is, too, is that he knows how I feel about him, and I think he's taking advantage of the situation because who wouldn't want somebody in their life that's building them up and providing them emotional support and, you know, somebody to spend time with when their significant other is out of town or whatever it may be. I'm providing a lot to him. And me saying that I'm hurting from this situation, but then not receiving any type of, like, support back to be like, I understand, you know, why you're hurting and where you're coming from. Let me put some boundaries in place and help you disengage from that. He doesn't do any of that.

[Nick]

And.

[Megan]

And I. It just feels very disrespectful to me. And so it's like, for me to try and walk away, I want some type of, like, acknowledgement from him to be, like, to understand why I'm doing what I'm doing, like, that he's going to be missing something. Like, right now, it feels like he's like, okay, you're making this decision.

[Nick]

Why would that, you know, take a.

[Megan]

Step back from me?

[Nick]

How would that actually make you feel better? So of what I'm hearing from you is like, confirm. Yeah, if I'm hearing you right, you want to take a step back, put distance in this relationship, and you want to hear him acknowledge that it'll be difficult and sad for him to do.

[Megan]

Because to me, that would be okay.

[Nick]

But let's assume, okay, like, you reach out to him and you're like, hey, we need to cut ties. I can't do this. And you get exactly the words that you want to hear from him. And then after he says the words that you want to hear, you never hear from him again. How will that make you feel better.

[Megan]

That this time our friendship, our, you know, relationship meant something to him?

[Nick]

I guess what I'm trying to say is like, I find that words in these situations are fairly meaningless and actions go a lot, a long way. And if, if I'm willing to bet that if this were true and he didn't reach out again, those meanings of those words would fade away quickly and then his ease of letting you go would hurt.

[Megan]

Yeah, well, that, that too. That's what I'm afraid of, is that, yeah, he'll just be like, okay, exactly, I see you later. But he, he still has everything. And I, I am, I'm left, you know, still alone. And so it's like, yeah, I think maybe it is more my ego.

[Nick]

Well, one, you're like, I don't know anything about your circle of influence, but I'm willing to guess you're not alone. And you may at times feel lonely, especially when it comes to maybe male companionship. But I think it's very important that, especially in these times that we are mindful of our rhetoric to ourselves of being alone versus, you know what? I might. Sometimes I feel a little lonely, you know. Yeah, but you're not alone. You've already mentioned you have friends, you know, and things like that. But I would argue that at times he makes you feel even lonelier than you are, especially when he is disconnecting from you and spending quality time with his actual partner. You know, I just think, I really don't think him saying anything is going to really do it. It's going to be short term gratification. Your ego is telling you you need to hear this acknowledgement. But in my experience, it's really not going to do anything for you.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

If this person is serious about how he really feels about you, if this person really is interested in prioritizing you, then you walking away, setting and then enforcing that boundary of, hey, I'm not going to. Let's not, I'm not going to sit there and pretend that we can be platonic friends. I feel like we have a connection worth exploring. I do not want to explore it while you're in a committed relationship. If you feel the same way about me, let me know. But you need to be single to do that. And if not, then I really just, I can't have you in my life. And that it will be the only way you will actually find out about how he really feels about you and his willingness to prioritize you.

[Megan]

I agree. And the thing is, is that I have, and we have tried that a couple of times.

[Nick]

Well, I love to say, when it comes to boundaries, I like to invoke Yoda, do or do not, there is no try. You don't try to enforce a boundary. You know, you just do it. Enforcing a boundary is not a mutual effort. You know, you can't say, we tried. That's something you do. And he either respects your boundary or he doesn't respect your boundary. And then he has boundaries. I'm sure whatever those are, what they may or may not make sense to you or anyone else, but he has his. And then you can choose to respect or not respect his boundaries. Boundaries are not something you do mutually, unless maybe from two parents to a child type of thing. That's the only time those boundaries are mutual, you know, type of thing. But in a couple, you each have your own individual boundary and it's up to you, the individual, to enforce it.

[Megan]

I don't know how to communicate that to him. Besides being like, don't speak to me again, because it just feels so harsh to me because of the depth of our relationship. Just being like, I'm never going to speak to you again just seems extremely harsh to me. And not like, you know, doesn't give any meaning to the relationship that we had.

[Nick]

Why does this relationship need to have meaning if you're not going to ultimately get what you want from it?

[Megan]

It doesn't have meaning. Then what's the point?

[Nick]

Well, I mean, I don't know. I mean, what do you mean by meaning? I guess, like. I guess what is like, my. The point. I don't know what the point of this relationship is if he chooses to stay in his relationship. But I would hope that the point for you would be you would learn something from it, you know, and that learning from it might be, you know, to be careful about, you know, developing a friendship with a man in a committed relationship, knowing that, quite honestly, especially in adult life, most men aren't developing friendships while they're in relationships unless they're looking for something that they're not getting out of the relationship. But you know full well through this experience, them doing that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to leave that relationship. It just. It might mean that you needed to learn this lesson. I mean, honestly, that's. That's all our experiences in life are meaning, like, you know. You know, like we always want this grand. Meaning the only time it means something. If you're willing to learn something, that's. That's about it, you know, and some things happen just because life's unfair, you know.

[Megan]

Yeah, exactly. Well, I was going to say two things that. I mean, I think that he's opened me up to a lot of things about myself, and so I do thank him for, you know, teaching me those things.

[Nick]

That's awesome.

[Megan]

So I do appreciate that and I do acknowledge that. But I will say on the flip side, too, kind of what you were saying is that I seem to get myself in these types of situations a lot, meaning having relationships with men that are either in relationships or married or whatever. You have it. But I. That seems to be my kind of cycle, and I don't like it. I would never want to be with somebody that cheats on me. So why am I willing to be the person that's, you know, engaging that activity? You know, I ultimately want a partner and I want somebody to live my life with, but I seem to be gravitating towards these unavailable men.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, why do you think that is?

[Megan]

I don't know.

[Nick]

Well, if you can notice a pet.

[Megan]

Because it definitely makes me feel more desirable.

[Nick]

Yeah, it could be that. It could exciting, could be that. And maybe it's just like. Maybe it's not as even like a nefarious in the sense that maybe part of it is like, maybe it's easier for you to be yourself around people that, like, when you first meet them, you kind of told yourself, like, this is not a dating partner. And so you're like, this is just a. This is just a guy who's off the market. So I just can be friendly. And then you're disarming and he's disarming, and then you're. You're maybe good at building rapport and maybe these connections are happening and I guess in good faith, so to speak, but partly is you're able to be yourself and you're not like, worried about, you know, are they going to like you or not? And things like that. And then you just kind of find yourself developing these connections with these men. And, you know, it's a safe space. And then, yeah, maybe there's a part of it in your subconscious who likes the attention and things like that. It might be a combination of things, but if you can notice a Pattern. Then again, you know, exceptions to every rule. But I think when it comes to straight men, certainly above the age of 25, if they're in a committed relationship, they're not making women friends for the sake of needing more friends. You are feeling some kind of need and void.

[Megan]

And the thing is that, yeah, like we said earlier, I acknowledge that I'm doing that, but I also feel like I am getting some from him, you know, fulfillment from him, but less and less as more time goes on and more of these issues, you know, arise between us. So that's why I'm at that point where I think I need to make a change. And I think I need to cut myself off from him to. To no longer give him that support and no longer give him, you know, more of me than what he's giving to me. I just don't know how to be like, bye. It's not in my nature to just cut people off like that.

[Nick]

Or maybe that's part of your problem, probably. Maybe you're too accessible to people who shouldn't have access to you. You saying you have a hard time cutting people off like that tells me that generally you're probably very bad at setting boundaries, or, excuse me, enforcing boundaries. You're probably pretty good at setting them, but it's the forcing and follow through that you struggle with.

[Megan]

Yeah, well, and with him, it's like, we've never set those boundaries or the ones that we did set, we've broken all of them. So, you know.

[Nick]

And what boundaries? Like what?

[Megan]

Like, just, you know, we had this rule early on that we wouldn't be, like, he wouldn't be allowed into my home alone. Like, we were like, we're not going to be alone in the same space together. And, you know, he's come to my place several times. We've never been physical. It's. It's purely emotional.

[Nick]

But so I think your boundaries, Yeah, I think your boundaries need to be more, I guess, broad. I think your boundaries that you're setting right now, like, you're not allowed to come into my apartment are silly. And you guys are setting them just so you can break them. And I think that's creating the excitement type of thing. You get what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I think the boundary you should be setting is if I have to set a boundary about not letting a guy into my apartment, then maybe that boundary should really be. Maybe we shouldn't be these types of friends, you know? You know. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you need to set that boundary. There's probably a bigger boundary you need to be setting with this guy.

[Megan]

Mm, exactly. Well, and it's. It's just I don't know how to set that boundary and commit to it when it's. I like him as a person and I do get.

[Nick]

I'm gonna make a tough love statement here. I think in order for you, it comes from self respect, your ability to set.

[Megan]

I mean, because I blatantly. Yeah, I blatantly know he's disrespecting me and he's getting so much more out of it than I am. I know that. I know all these things, but I'm still not willing to. That's because that step of cutting him off.

[Nick]

Well, because you lack self respect, I guess, in a way, if you know he's not respecting you and you're generally okay with that, then that means you lack the self respect that you need to enforce the boundary, you know?

[Megan]

But what would that. Yeah, I mean, it.

[Nick]

Just because I guess his. His approval of you is more important than your approval of yourself. Yeah, Him. Him. His attention is more important than you feeling good about your decisions. And then, you know, we're not even discussing the obvious. Like, even if you get what you want with this guy, you're going to have to grapple with the fact that this guy is very easily doing things to his current girlfriend you wouldn't want to be done to you. And if he can do it with you, he's going to be able to do it like two years from now. You are. You know, let's say you guys get in a relationship, at some point in your relationship with this guy, there's going to be a disconnect. You are not going to be able to fill a certain need that he might not be getting from this relationship. Every relationship goes to their peaks and valleys. There's connecting, there's disconnecting. And when you're disconnected from this man, just like he seems to be disconnected from his girlfriend, he's going to seek that connection elsewhere because it's going to feel easier or, you know, and new and exciting. And you are green lighting this behavior.

[Megan]

Right. You lose them. How you get them.

[Nick]

Yeah. So I mean, like, you know, there's. You're kind of giving me the like. And again, I'm saying this with love, but like your childlike self. And it's kind of childish to be like, I just can't do it. It's like you can. You're choosing not to and you're not giving yourself enough of Credit that you have the agency and the power and the control to make this difficult decision and to follow through. And for you to say things like, I can't do it. I know I should, but I just can't is, you know, childish, I'm guessing, the person you want to be. And like, sometimes we just have to make difficult decisions that sting a little bit in the short run, might make us, you know, and that's what I mean. Like, you need to acknowledge the sadness, you know, you need to acknowledge it's gonna feel like a breakup. And I think that's the part that you're not doing yet. You're still trying to, you know, you called with like, oh, how can I be friends with this gu. I mean that, you know, you were kind of hoping that you and I could just sit there and be like, all right, well, here's how you can be friends. You can't be friends with this guy, you know, and you're still trying to figure that out. And you're trying to like, do this equation, your head that's unsolvable, and you're just not accepting the reality of the situation. And then what? And you just have to be more honest with yourself about how your choices are affecting your happiness and your, you know, your character, you know, and you just have to follow through and you have to be willing to be sad and you have to be willing to feel even maybe a little bit of heartbreak and disappointment over, like losing what he has brought to your life that you enjoy. And then you're gonna have to learn from it, you know? But yeah, like, you've noticed this pattern of you getting closer and closer with men who aren't available. And yeah, there's, there seems to be some reason why. Are you in therapy?

[Megan]

I am.

[Nick]

Are you? Have you talked about this pattern? You have? So what does your therapist say?

[Megan]

Well, not specifically about the pattern, more about the situation with, with this guy.

[Nick]

If I were you, I would be more interested in the pattern than this situation because this situation is easily replicable and it's really not about this guy. It's about this pattern that you, in fact have noticed. You know, and for you to notice, it means there's. It definitely exists. Most people can't be self aware to notice patterns. And you have to make sure that your therapist isn't in just having fun gossiping with you about this guy. I would want, you know, I, I want you to like, look at why you're making the choices that you're making and, and what is the reason for you to continue this pattern, like, what is it that you are missing? You know, what void are you seemingly trying to fill as a result of this type of behavior that you're doing?

[Megan]

Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with. With validation. Like, I'm seeking validation from other people because I do think all these wonderful things about myself. I'm successful, I'm attractive, I'm funny, I'm all of these things. But I need other people specific, like, mostly men, to reflect that back to me.

[Nick]

Sure. We all do.

[Megan]

So I think.

[Nick]

What about single men?

[Megan]

It's not as fun.

[Nick]

Yeah, I hear you. I hear you.

[Megan]

I. I don't know. I think it is. Yeah, it's a validation thing. But, I mean, this has been the cycle of my whole kind of, like, romantic relationship since I was in high school, so it's always.

[Nick]

Were you popular in high school?

[Megan]

I had several groups of friends, but I wouldn't say I was popular.

[Hannah]

No.

[Megan]

I got in disagreements with the popular girls because I liked their boyfriends.

[Nick]

Okay. Did you? Yeah. Did. Did you? Okay, well, maybe it comes from something like that. That's kind of where I was going. It's just like, I think sometimes how we are in high school really can stick with us unless we break a pattern.

[Megan]

I guess I just don't know how to break the pattern besides just being, like, they're unavailable, so I'm not even gonna engage with them.

[Nick]

And I think it's easier for you to do what you do if, like, your subconscious brain almost sees the pop, you know, as these men's partners, as, like, the popular girls in high school.

[Megan]

Mm.

[Nick]

You know, and I think you in high school felt less guilty about what you were doing because it was kind of like, you know, hey, it's high school. All fair and love and war. If he likes you today, he might like me tomorrow. And, you know. You know, you getting that validation from these guys who are hanging out with the popular girls, you know, made you feel a certain way outside of just, like, the guy likes you. It was like a status symbol. It was like, I can compete, too. I don't need. You know, it's like, popularity. And maybe it comes from something like that, but, like, you know, these are the type of questions I'd love for you to be discussing in therapy, because, again, even if you do finally break it off with this guy, if you don't break the pattern in this need for this type of validation, you're just going to find it with someone else again. And how old are you?

[Megan]

36.

[Nick]

36. Still relatively young, but, like, do you want to keep doing this type of cycle with these types of guys for that much longer? You know, I'm.

[Megan]

No, I don't. And that's why I'm trying to make this change with this particular situation. It's just. I guess I don't know how to enforce the boundary because it's like I said, we've tried this two times, or I've tried this two times with him to break it off.

[Nick]

You gotta stop with the language of times.

[Megan]

He's come back to me.

[Nick]

Okay, good for him. Yeah, I don't. You again, your idea of setting a boundary is asking him to respect your boundary. And then when he doesn't respect your boundary, you make it seem like you have no choice in the matter.

[Megan]

Yeah, I willingly accept him back because I miss him.

[Nick]

Yeah, and I understand that. And again, if you were to invoice this boundary, you would have every right to grieve the same way you would a romantic relationship, because you have feelings for this guy, and that's understandable. But there's two outcomes you want, right? The best outcome right now is to be with this guy romantically and for you to two to explore a relationship further while he ends his relationship with a girlfriend and sees where things can go. That's your first choice. Your second choice, much further down in terms of what you'd prefer, which would be to just relieve yourself of this toxic relationship with this man because he's in a relationship and for you to move on. Right? Those are your top two choices, neither of which will be accomplished by you doing what you're doing, which is to, you know, act like you're a victim of this circumstance and give him all the power and let him choose for the both of you what you guys decide to do and just once in a while, complain. You complaining hasn't gotten you anywhere. You actually need to do something, and he will respect you a hell of a lot more if you show him that you're willing to enforce a boundary. You enforce a boundary right now he's like, all right, cool. I'm just going to like all the stuff. I won't text her for a couple days. She'll miss me, I'll show up and we'll do it all over again. And I don't even think he's doing it consciously, but he knows. He knows.

[Megan]

Oh, I think he is.

[Nick]

Maybe so. Well, even so, that should piss you off even more. I mean, again, this comes down to a level of self respect. Back that you are not giving yourself should make you mad.

[Megan]

It's starting to. No, I mean, I, I feel a deep level of. Of disrespect and, and sadness about the situation.

[Nick]

But I want you to he. You are disrespecting yourself way more than he is.

[Megan]

I agree. I agree. I need to make myself a priority and not necessarily care as much about how it's going to affect his life, because that's what I think about.

[Nick]

Yeah, that's understandable. You care about him. It's sad, but you got to let go of that narrative. This man has all the options. He could be with his girlfriend, he could be with you. Like, he's going to choose what deep down he wants for himself. What you're going to put a stop to is him feeling like he doesn't have to choose that. He can have both. And let's not feel sorry for the guy who is trying to have his cake and eat it too, so to speak. You know what I'm saying? Let's not feel sorry for the guy who's greedy, because that's what he is. You are hitting someone who's being greedy.

[Megan]

I, I completely agree with you. And every time that I've brought that up to him, he gets very upset.

[Nick]

Because you gotta stop trying to.

[Megan]

He, deep down knows it's true.

[Nick]

Yeah, but also, like, stop arguing with this man. It's pointless. He wants to argue with you. It's an opportunity to change your mind, get in your head, you know, play on your feelings for him. Words in these situations are just. That's how they are. They're just fucking words. You guys, I care and I don't care. Like, does he want to be with you or not? Does he want to stop emotionally cheating on his girlfriend for you, you know, or not? Do you want to date a weak man? Because this guy sounds pretty fucking weak, you know, like, I don't know. It's.

[Megan]

Yeah, I. And that's the thing is that I, I want to get that understanding from him, what he wants, but I have to take his actions as what he wants.

[Nick]

Correct.

[Megan]

Obviously he wants to stay with his girlfriend because it's been a year now and he's still with his girlfriend. So he's made his decision.

[Nick]

How long is this? How long have you been in your mind? This has been. You said it's been going on for a year. How much of this year have you guys been teetering on him emotionally cheating on his girlfriend?

[Megan]

What do you mean, teetering on it?

[Nick]

Well, I mean, you make the whole time? Because I got the impression at first it started, like, very, like, innocent, and you guys were just totally friends. And then maybe a couple months in, you're like, oh, wait, I like this guy, or vice versa. Or you mean pretty early on you had feelings.

[Megan]

Pretty early on I had feelings. And pretty early on we, you know, started flirting with each other. And, like, our communication has always been very constant.

[Nick]

If you were her, how would this whole situation feel if you had a mirror into your relation? She.

[Megan]

Oh, extremely shitty. Can we cuss on here?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Megan]

No. She could be devastated.

[Nick]

Okay, so then does that not make you see him differently? Knowing that he. That's one thing for you, it's easier for you to put on his mind because, like, you don't know her. You have no loyalty to her. You're disrespecting yourself by doing this. But, like, he is disrespecting himself and her, and he's doing it with a clear conscience.

[Megan]

Mm.

[Nick]

And how does that not change how you see this man?

[Megan]

No, it definitely, definitely has. I mean, I was very, you know, I didn't see it for a very long time. I, you know, put him on this pedestal of being this great, stand up, you know, fantastic guy that I was trying to win over. And so I was, you know, giving him, you know, access to me to try and show him, you know, hey, choose me. Like, I'm. I'm the better fit for you. It's only been the past couple of months, and yes, I realize that that's still a long time. It's a couple of months, but it's only been the past couple of months that I've really come to see his true character and how he lies and how he withholds communication from me because he knows that that's my biggest thing is, like, to talk through things and I like to, you know, be up front with communication. And so him taking that away from. From me, he knows that that's going to drive me insane and, you know, try and reach back out to him. So it's only been, you know, more recently that I've realized all these things that have been going on and wanting to not be in this same cycle, not wanting to feel this bad about myself, and it's. It's providing me, you know, more heartache than. Than happiness at this point. And I've come to realize that. And so that's why I want to make this change. And actually, I don't know if I want to or it's more like I need to.

[Nick]

I Hope that you have to. Yeah. And again, you can still be sad about what you're losing and still want to make the right choice. I mean.

[Megan]

Yeah, no, it, like, it. It's gonna make me cry to say that I won't have him in my life. So it's. It's really hard to think about, but.

[Nick]

It'S really not him that you're.

[Megan]

It's also really hard to be in this spot.

[Nick]

Isa's not that great. You know, you're. You're crying over a person you've built up in your head. And it's very true. I. There's a party that might be sad, missing the game, the challenge, the excitement, the up and down, you know, like, it's a chapter in your life you're gonna have to close. And these are all things you can acknowledge, but, like, you're just giving this man way too much credit. You're clearly not giving yourself enough, you know?

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

No, and it should start pissing you off. I mean, you know, again, you're young, but you're, you know, not that young. You're not. You're not that young. You're too old to be doing this. You know, I agree with you, especially for a guy who, like, again, it's just, you know, you're crying over someone who would do this to you, and.

[Megan]

He'S, he's gotten a lot of my tears over the past year and I don't want to give him anymore.

[Nick]

So stop. Stop glorifying this relationship.

[Megan]

Yeah, I guess.

[Nick]

I just, I think you're trying to compete with the girls you went to high school with.

[Megan]

Still, potentially. I like, I wanna, Yeah, I wanna be the chosen one. That's always been my thing. Like, I wanna be the one picked.

[Nick]

Yeah. And that's why you're capable of doing what you're doing is because you're not seeing it as like a low character choice or the fact that he is doing this shitty thing to his girlfriend. You're seeing it as if he picks me, then it was all worthwhile, then it. Then I did the right thing.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, and you're making it all about you being picked.

[Megan]

Yeah, because I. In other situations, like, yeah, with, with single men or with available men, I'm not picked. So either way, I'm not picked.

[Nick]

What do you mean, not picked?

[Megan]

Yeah, like, I don't go on a lot of dates. I don't. I haven't had like a long term relationship. And it's because. Yeah, I don't, I don't connect with People often. And when I do, I get really excited about it. And the most people that I connect with are unavailable people.

[Nick]

And so again, part of it, I think that you're connecting with unavailable people because you feel a comfortable without the pressure like we talked about. And you're clouded by the excitement of what if. If, if you can, you know, and it feels safe and you feel less rejected by subconsciously entertaining unavailable men. And then when you do go on the dating apps or go out with available and you know, it doesn't go your way, you feel more rejected, I'm guessing because you get in your head about like, well, fuck, they won't even pick me when they're, if they don't have a girlfriend. I mean, you're like you said, yeah, you're, you know, you're an attractive person. You like, you have a lot going for you. If you really wanted a boyfriend tomorrow, if your life depended on it, I'm confident you could have one. But the men you're going after, I'm willing to bet that the reasons you're dating aren't for love, they're not for stability or making a romantic connection. I think a lot of it is based off of being validated. And so my guess is you're going after a lot of the fuck boys and you're going after a lot of the men who your subconscious brain is seeing an opportunity and that opportunity is to feel validated. You're not going after men who might be able to, you know, share and develop something. And you know, you're just. There's this obviously this intense need of validation. And if I were you, you know, therapy we know, is expensive, I would be more intentional about what you are talking about in therapy because, like, talking about individual situations is nice, but you know, working with a therapist that hopefully can understand, you know, like, like child, like past traumas or the reasons why we do things and try to look into what's causing these repetitive behaviors is a bar is a far better use of your time because otherwise you're just paying a therapist to talk with about your relationship problems. When you exhaust your friends.

[Megan]

Yes. And they're exhausted.

[Nick]

So. Yeah, but you know, you gotta, you're clearly, you know, you're very capable of making the right decisions. You're not as helpless as you're acting and you need to just hold yourself to a higher standard and this will change when you really want it to change.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Megan]

And that's only when the change could happen, is when I'm truly ready. And it's I keep trying, you know, inching towards that point, and I just need to, you know, actually take that step and, you know, be good with that. It's just. I don't know how to do that. I just do. I call him up and be like, hi, I'm not talking to you again.

[Nick]

I'm willing to bet you've had plenty of these types of conversations. If I were you, I would block him right now and I would delete his number, and I wouldn't tell him. He'll know exactly why you're being blocked. Even though he acts confused or even if he tries to act like a victim, he knows that's what I would do. And if he goes out of his way to track you down, to get a hold of you without being able to text you, then you calmly say, like, you know the answer. It's not even fair for you to even make me answer this question. And it's even shittier of you to make me feel like I am doing something wrong. If you really want to be in my life, you know exactly what you need to do. And if you don't, then keep doing what you're doing. But, like, I've wasted enough of my energy and time this past year, and I'm done. And it's. It is that simple. And you have to tell yourself it is that simple, because it is. I know that the feelings that you're going to feel following that will be difficult, and you'll have to process them and you'll have to work through them, and you will be. There's no way to do this without being sad, and that is something you're just going to have to accept. And when you called in, you were hoping to figure out a solution without being sad, and that's not possible, and you're going to have to accept that.

[Megan]

Yeah, and unfortunately, I'm already sad, you know, so.

[Nick]

Well, that's. That's good news, actually, because the truth is, you kind of know the truth, right? You know, and you're just not. You're not really accepting it. You're kind of accepting it, and. And you called in with a little bit of, you know, delusional hoping. You. You know, you calling in with the question of how can I be friends with this guy is you not actually accepting the reality of your situation.

[Megan]

Yeah, we. I mean, we both brush it under the rug. We both know that our relationship is. Is more than a friendship, but neither of us are doing anything about it.

[Nick]

And I think you need to stop using we and us. Language. With this guy. You're not in a relationship. You don't have one. You're two individuals making choices. And, and you got to stop that language. There is no you two.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

You're not in this together.

[Megan]

That's very true.

[Nick]

You know, definitely not.

[Megan]

He. Yeah, he blames me for, for everything that's gone wrong. So that's a very terrible feeling because complicit.

[Nick]

You know better. And so like you got to, you have, you're. You. You have to figure out a way to stop being a victim because you're not in this situation. And when people letting it happen. Yeah. I mean, like, because, you know, it's crazy for him to say and you would rather allow him to make you feel this way than just say you're being like. To see it for what it is. Cruel, self centered, selfish. And instead you're, I don't. You know, you're. You're just not seeing it that way.

[Megan]

Right. I understand that. Yeah. A great technique is blocking him and not giving him access to me. But it feels harsh. Like I don't. I haven't done that with anybody in my life even.

[Nick]

I mean, like, I just, it feels.

[Megan]

Very rude to me.

[Nick]

Your dating choices have gotten to where you are today. So maybe you need to start making different choices and maybe you need to be a little bit more harsh. Well, because life. Because doing the right thing is often hard. And to get things. Anything worthwhile in my life didn't come easily. Anything, whether it was love or work or, you know, the things that we appreciate the most are often the most difficult things to get, which is kind of, kind of that. That logic also got you into this mess because you have almost subconsciously justified this type of behavior from the two of you is, you know. Well, your effort is val. You know, it's, it's. It must be meaningful because I've had to work this hard for it. You know. But that being said, this is more about you doing the right thing.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Nick]

And it shouldn't be this toxic, that's for sure.

[Megan]

Yeah. No, I agree. I know what needs to happen and I have to actually do it and stick to it. I just. Yeah. I just worry about. Yeah. Him actually reaching out and then me caving and I have to, I mean, I don't know. Ready to not cave, do you?

[Nick]

Like, you have to respect yourself. It's. It really comes down to that. It really just does.

[Megan]

Yeah. Because I, I don't want to be treated this way. I don't. I wouldn't want to treat people this way myself. So I have to.

[Nick]

Well, you are allowing both to happen right now, and you have for the past year.

[Hannah]

Exact.

[Megan]

Exactly.

[Nick]

And that should trigger you in a way. You know, you're going to have to figure something out to motivate yourself. And I think you need to start being a little bit more honest and harsh with yourself.

[Megan]

Yeah, no, I understand. And yeah, I think that this heartache, this anxiousness, this stress, everything from this is, you know, a lot worse than being on the other side and being sad for a bit and, you know, sticking up for myself. So it's just something that I need to do and I've struggled to actually do it because I don't want to lose him.

[Nick]

I mean that. Again, I would change that language. I would. Yeah, you do. Him is who he is today. And him is a guy who has been able and willing to make his emotional mistress, you feel shitty about herself when all she's trying to do is just find happiness and love. And he knows that he's doing it while simultaneously lying and deceiving his current partner. This is the person you are having a hard time letting go.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you are.

[Megan]

When you put it that way.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah. So you should want to lose that. Like, instead of talking about him and generalizations, you should talk about the behaviors he's demonstrating. I want to lose this type of behavior in my life. I want to lose this type of behavior in my life. That type of behavior in my life. I don't want to lose him is such a. Like.

[Megan]

Yeah. What even is.

[Nick]

What even is that? Yeah, him is his actions. He's bringing into this relationship. You know what I mean?

[Megan]

Completely.

[Nick]

You got to toughen up here. You know, you can do this, you know, type of stuff. Stop with the. I can't stop with I don't know how. You're not a 16 year old girl anymore. Stop acting like the girl that. I mean, you. It is. It's coming from that place. I mean, again, not a therapist, but. So I think it's a pretty educated guess.

[Megan]

Yeah, I will definitely look to explore that more in therapy for sure. Because, yeah, we've been. Definitely been focused on this situation and what I can do and coming to that conclusion that I need to.

[Nick]

What are they saying? Just out of curiosity?

[Hannah]

We.

[Megan]

We made a list of things that I could do to begin to distance myself. And I did several of those last week.

[Nick]

What was on that list?

[Megan]

It was to delete our text messages because I was holding on to it, I think sort of as like Evidence or as way to, you know, hold on to the good things that he said to me. Tons of pictures. I moved them to my laptop, you know, off my phone.

[Nick]

Delete them.

[Hannah]

Mute.

[Megan]

I can't.

[Nick]

You can.

[Megan]

I don't. Yeah, yeah, but. And then I muted him on Instagram. I mean, mute him from seeing my stuff.

[Nick]

If you get what you want, and that is him committing or trying it out, you don't even want to remember this part of this relationship. You know? Why. Why you not.

[Megan]

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't allow any of this. If I was in a relationship with him, I wouldn't allow it. So why.

[Nick]

You wouldn't even know about it. Why am I allowed. But that's what I'm saying. It's like you're like. I'm saying delete those pictures off your laptop. You're like, I can't. And the reason you can't must be in the back of your mind. You are wondering, well, if I get what I want, eventually I'm going to want these pictures to look at. I'm going to want to be able to memorialize the beginning of our relationship. But I'm telling you, if you get what you want, you're not going to want to memorialize the time that you're going to. Because right now it's very easy for you. Even though it's, I mean, as difficult as it is, it's very easy for you to acknowledge his behavior. But if you get what you want, you're going to want to forget how he actually handled himself, how he treated you, how he treated his girlfriend. More importantly, you're not going to want to memorialize that anyways, you know?

[Megan]

Yeah, it's true.

[Nick]

Be like, hey, remember the time we took this picture and you had a girlfriend? Like, what are you hanging. So what do you. Again, you got us. You know, you're not a victim. And the more you keep saying, I can't or it's too hard, you're just making it harder on yourself. You want to keep doing this shit, you know, like, come on.

[Megan]

No, I don't, I don't, I don't. Like I said, I want. Yeah, I want a partner and I want somebody I can build my life with. And this is not that. And this is not.

[Nick]

So you got opening me up to.

[Megan]

That type of situation.

[Nick]

Make different choices. You know, you gotta start being the big girl that you are. You're an adult woman, you know, and you gotta stop acting like the 16 year old, you know, it's Time to graduate, so to speak.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And again, you have a lot going for you. Like I, you know, and you're gonna have to get past this need for early on validation and excitement and like the intangible. And maybe the men you start going out with, maybe you need to get comfortable with being a little bored in their early dates. And you have to start like, like trying to identify characteristics, you know, high quality, you know, like having more compatible. I think you should focus more on compatibility rather than chemistry. You know, I think you should stop looking for men who help you see different sides of you that you didn't see before. Again, I think you're probably giving him way too much credit in that department as well. Yeah, you know, probably. It's like you got a compliment from a man that you liked and you turned it into him making you realize that you could see yourself in ways you couldn't see yourself before. Maybe you should, you know, get rid of this guy and, and start practicing on valuing yourself in ways that you haven't been willing to value yourself without you hurrying up from a man.

[Megan]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I do believe those things about myself, but I need to, like, believe it regardless of hearing it back from, from someone else, because it's like, I do believe it, but I believe it more if somebody else is sure.

[Nick]

And listen, we all love to be complimented. We all need certain levels of validation. But you're old enough to start asking yourself, is this validation, healthy validation or is it toxic validation? Is it coming from a place that's going to serve me long term or is this a short term fix? Sugar and vegetables will both satisfy a craving in the short term. One of them will make you feel shitty long term, and the other one will make you feel good long term. And you know, sometimes vegetables are pretty boring to eat. You know, I don't, you know, like, you're an adult and you know that, like, you can't just binge on sugar all day long. And if you want to feel a certain way or look a certain way, you're gonna have to make some tough choices when it comes to your diet. And the same thing when it comes to your romantic life. But you're, you're keep acting like you don't know how to not eat sugar and say no. And like, you know, it's just like, I don't know what to do. And it's like, you know, you do.

[Megan]

Yeah. And I think the only thing is, yeah, when I do go out with available people, yeah, I am, I am bored I don't feel as strong of a connection with them, and I, you know, give it two, three dates typically, and I feel like that's, you know, good.

[Nick]

Stop looking for somebody. Stop looking for excitement on the first few dates. What has that gotten you? Nowhere.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You're a prioritizing chemistry. There's a whole chapter in my book saying that talks about the difference between chemistry and compatibility and how chemistry is very difficult to trust. Chemistry is easily faked. Most fuckboys are naturally charismatic. You can feel chemistry with people who have, you know, you had a very similar. You worked with this guy, so there was some sort of, you know, working relationship that made you guys feel connected in a way that maybe you wouldn't feel connected if you didn't. Like I said, people who go on the Bachelor have a very intense mutual experience that connects them and makes it easier to feel a certain level of chemistry they might not feel with someone who didn't share that experience, but that doesn't mean the two people are meant to be in a romantic relationship. And so chemistry that you feel very early on is often manufactured and fake or very. Just hard to trust its authenticity. Compatibility, on the other hand, very early on, you can figure out what you have in common, what you enjoy doing, what you enjoy talking about. You don't have to have. It's not like you have to find, you know, find the, like, equivalent of you, but you should have things that you, you know, can talk about and share, and that can grow. And you need. I. If I were you, I would start focusing on that, and I would see chemistry early on in the first couple dates is a red flag, because it is for you. It is. You know, and I would see boredom as a green flag for you.

[Megan]

Yeah, I think I definitely need to focus more on. On the compatibility front.

[Nick]

Yeah. And so when you feel boredom early on, you should challenge yourself to keep going, because you're going to have to fight through that. You know, you're just going to. And you're going to have to try to develop a connection over time, which clearly you're capable of doing, but you're going to have to do it without the pot at the end of the rainbow, which is the validation, the hope of this validation from this person. You know, you're. You know, you feel like you need it from.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's. It's definitely giving too much power away, and I need to be able to give that validation to myself.

[Nick]

You can do this. Are you gonna block them? Why don't you just do it right now?

[Megan]

Maybe in a day.

[Nick]

Why? You'll never be ready. You'll never be ready. Tomorrow it will be. You'll feel just so.

[Megan]

The only thing that I'm thinking, you're gonna be like, this is ridiculous. I already know it. But I. We work out the same place. I have put in my notice, but it's till the end of the month, so I could potentially see him in the coming days. And so if I block him and then see him, then that's actually so awkward.

[Nick]

No, you're not a victim, first of all. Again, it's only awkward if you make it awkward. It should be empowering. If I were you, I would want to. I would. If I were you, I'd block them. I'd pat myself in the back. I'd call my girls who supported that decision and say, I finally block them, and I hope that they would gas you up. And I would look in the mirror and compliment yourself for finally standing up for yourself and stop putting up with this shitty behavior. And if you were to run in with them and run into them, then I would feel good about it and say to him, you know what happened? And stop. You know, I'm just. I'm over this. And I would walk away. I wouldn't engage in conversation with them. You know, I don't know. I don't know where you live or what the climate is. If you really need to work out, you could do some laps around the block or whatever, do some, you know, lunges in your house or apartment. You do not need to go to this gym like you're. You know. So again, you go. You blocking him. And going to this gym, is this you tricking yourself or again, finding an excuse or a loophole to not enforce the boundary, which is you blocking him.

[Hannah]

I agree.

[Megan]

All right. Should I get it out and block.

[Nick]

I think you should. Let's delete. Let's block him and then delete his number. That's so scary, Greenshot. It's not scary. You're not 16 anymore.

[Megan]

Don't. Screenshot.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Megan]

You know where my brain went.

[Nick]

Yeah. Well, I mean, again, like, I. You. At some point, you just have to be fed up with yourself.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

40 is going to come real fast. Yeah. Which will be fine when you hit it, but, like, yeah, if you turn 40 and you're doing this shit, it's going to be a real tough birthday.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Did you do block them?

[Megan]

Okay, blocking.

[Nick]

All right, delete his number now. Block. Like, block them on Instagram, block them on Snapchat, block them on whatever the fuck?

[Megan]

I luckily only have Instagram, so.

[Nick]

Block. Let's go ahead and do that. You got your phone in front of you. Go ahead, block. Ah.

[Megan]

I don't know why this is so stressful to me.

[Nick]

Well, because you're actually doing something you're not used to doing, you know, but you gotta change your attitude. Your attitude is so victim mindset. Like, be proud of yourself. You just did something that you really struggled doing. Like, pat yourself on the back. Like, have a sense of accomplishment and pride in yourself. Like, yeah, you know?

[Megan]

Yeah. I think I tend to think about the. What I'm losing as opposed to what I'm gaining and I need to focus on what I'm gaining.

[Nick]

Set an appointment with your therapist and talk about why you are like, the patterns, you know, and yeah, I will. Like, you don't need all. Just cut to the fat, you know, you don't need a slow burn. Respecting yourself.

[Megan]

Definitely doing the slow burn situation.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Need to take more action.

[Nick]

Well, keep us posted how this is going. Cry to your friends. But like, try to pat yourself on the back. Try, try to feel a sense of pride because until you're able to do that, like, if you're just going to go into this victim mindset of, like, I'm so sad. I don't know if I can do this. I'm heartbroken. Yeah. I mean, you're going to make yourself vulnerable for when he eventually, inevitably bangs down your door, so to speak. And just keep in mind that like, like he needs to come correct him saying, I'm sad and I can't do this. No. If he doesn't show up at your door and then like, I ended it, even then I would make. I would proceed with caution.

[Megan]

Right, Agreed.

[Nick]

All right.

[Hannah]

All right.

[Megan]

Thanks, Nick.

[Nick]

You're welcome. I'm proud of you now.

[Megan]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Follow through. This is your life. You know, I mean, I'm sitting here.

[Megan]

He is like, well, yeah, I don't want this to be my life, so I need to actually follow through with that.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Megan]

Because, yeah, I don't want. I don't want this.

[Nick]

Yeah, you can and you're capable.

[Megan]

Exactly.

[Nick]

All right, take care.

[Megan]

Yes, exactly.

[Hannah]

All right, thanks.

[Nick]

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[Sylvia]

Hi, my name is Sylvia. I'm 43 years old and I wanted to ask how I can get over my insecurities or jealousy with my husband.

[Nick]

What. So, I mean, what are your insecurities that are causing your jealousy?

[Sylvia]

That's like, the main issue is there's not really anything that. It's just. It's me. I'm insecure. I'm jealous of other women, of how they look. I'm afraid, like, when, like, we stop. I stop myself when we're going to go places, because I'm. I constantly thinking, like, who's going to be there? What are they going to be wearing? Are they going to be attractive women? Is he going to think about them later? Is he. Like, it's just my mind, okay? Does not stop.

[Nick]

Well, I've always thought that the reason we get jealous is because we have some kind of insecurity, right? And our insecurities can come from two different places when we're in a relationship. They can come from the behavior of our partners. They're doing something. Maybe they're very flirtatious. Maybe they're kind of do things that kind of don't make much sense. They show up late or whatever. Or our insecurities can come from past trauma, like childhood trauma, past relationships, things like that. So do you think it's more your husband's doing things that you were, like, you've just kind of accepted, but deep down don't feel right that are causing you to be jealous? Or have you had shit happen to you in the past that you haven't really processed or worked through or gotten over that's causing you to react the way you're acting with your husband?

[Sylvia]

So I would say it's probably a combination of both. Like, ever when I was a teenager, I. My first boyfriend, you know, there was a lot of jealousy on both parts. Then my first marriage when I was in my 20s, you know, he would. He would tell me things like, oh, men think like this, and men think like that. And he would kind of put things in my mind about how men think when they look at other women or how men act or what. What men are thinking in terms of. Like, if a friend of mine came over, you know, he would make comments about them, right? So now fast forwarding to my husband, he doesn't really. So in the beginning, I was extremely jealous, and I would make it known. But I, you know, as I've gotten older, I suppressed it a lot. I don't say anything to him. Like, I never express jealousy. Like, he'll be like, oh, you know, I want to go. I want to go over here. And even though inside me I'm like, I don't want him to go because I'm afraid he leaves somebody or I'm afraid.

[Nick]

So what is he doing? Give me an example of something he's doing that's bothering you.

[Sylvia]

Well, he won't do it. So, for example, like, he'll be like, oh, I want to go to a car show. And then he'll be like, do you want to come? And he'll always invite me. And I'll be like, ah, no, that's okay. But you can go. Like, just like that. You can go. And then the time will come or the day will come. And I'll be like, are you gonna go to the car show? Like, man, I changed my mind. So he doesn't do anything. Like, I'll be honest with you, he's a good guy, you know, and he does know about my insecurities because we've been together for like 15 years now. So in the beginning, I was. I was very much her about everything. But now, you know, he knows that I'm way more laid back. I let you know. I don't say anything, but it's like in here. So for example, I'll just give you a recent example. We went to Halloween event, and we went with two other people that I don't know, and they were friends of a friend. And in my mind I'm thinking like, you know, is, does he find this woman attractive? Well, you know, what is he thinking? Like, this is all in my mind. When we jump in the car to head back home, we just start talking because it was an hour drive home, and we just start talking. We're just, you know, talking. And then I'm like, what did you think of the girls that were there? And I named them by their names. And he was like, I mean, they were attractive. And so that right away started making me feel some type of way. And then I'm like, well, what did you find attractive about them? Like, just. Just like talking, though, you know, he wasn't picking up because I'm really good at kind of like. I don't want to say manipulating, but I guess it was manipulating the situation to make him feel like it was okay to talk to me about this. And so then he's like, oh, well, to be honest, she had a nice butt. So then that was a stab in my heart. Okay? It was literally a stab. And I'm like, oh, we, you know, Kiki chat laughed a little bit. And then onto the next subject when we Got home, he was like, my favorite part of tonight was in the car back home with you. All the talking that we did, it was just like, it was my favorite part of the night. And I'm like, oh, you know, whatever, nothing. But like, then it just kind of like stood in my head. Then I'm obsessing about this girl. I'm looking her up, I'm, you know, trying to see like, what does she look like normally? Like, it's just so unhealthy. But he has no idea because I don't act like that in front of him. I'm very nonchalant about it. You know, I don't want him to feel like he's doing anything wrong because he's not. It doesn't go anywhere, doesn't really do anything. This is me, this is my internal whatever. And let me tell you this, I've. I've tried to listen to podcasts, I've tried, you know, meditation. I've tried everything. This in particular part of me, me doesn't grow. Like, I can't evolve. I can't grow from just being the 16 year old me with this insecurity, you know. And he'll sometimes say things to me that I feel like he's trying to make me feel better. But in turn I switch around in my head. Like he'll be like, oh, you know, you were the most, you're always like the most beautiful girl in the room. And you know, things like that, you know, he'll say, and then I'll start thinking like, oh, so he is looking at other women and he is judging, you know, like, it's just so, so bad. And I just hate, I hate it, I hate it. I hate feeling like that.

[Nick]

I mean, why are you like. I mean, I think you can control it more than you realize. You must get some kind of excitement from it.

[Sylvia]

I get hurt from it. Like, I feel like, like jabs in my heart, in my.

[Nick]

I mean, are you stomach. Are you guys like. I mean, you said you were together for 15 years. Like maybe. Are you guys just. Are you bored?

[Sylvia]

No, no, no, no, I'm not. I'm not. I mean there's nothing like, no, I'm not bored. It's not because this has been going on since the beginning. I just have changed how I am, how I process it and how I deal with it. Before, I used to just be like, oh, oh, you were looking at her. I saw you looking at her and oh, I saw your eyes turn that way or whatever the case may be. I would confront him. Now I just kind of be like, I mean, there's going to be attractive people where we go. Like, I can't help that. You know, we live in a big city. Like, there's nothing I can do.

[Nick]

So I don't. We all like to be chosen and picked. In fact, we talk. I talk to a lot of, you know, women, for example, who. Who struggle with, you know, chasing men for the sake of validation. In order to feel chosen and picked, you just have to change your perspective, I guess. I mean, one, it sounds like maybe there's some, like, stuff going on inside of you that you haven't worked through. You know, I don't know if you've talked to a therapist about this type of behavior that, you know, you've dealt with, but, like, that would be a place, good place to start. And I would definitely look into that. That if you can say, hey, I've always struggled with this. I've always felt this way. I've kind of always internalized these feelings and gone down these mental rabbit holes. And, like, there is a reason why. And, you know, we're not going to be able to address it on this call, but I would definitely explore that with a therapist. That being said, you know, like, there is an element of, like, you just have to change your perspective in a sense that, like, every day your husband's choosing you when he chooses not to go to these events. Maybe it's, again, he's choosing you when he's saying, oh, you're the prettiest girl in the room. Yeah, maybe he is looking, but he is choosing you. You know, every day he wakes up and he has the option to look at other women or be with other women. But still every day comes back and chooses you. I would feel good about your husband continuing to choose you every day because honestly, that's what it comes down to in terms of making relationships work. You're seeing it as, I don't know, something else other than being chosen, but.

[Sylvia]

Different perspectives that I've never thought about.

[Nick]

But yeah, I mean, your big problem is, like, you're just choosing it to see it in a negative way. Why you're choosing it to see in a negative way is something I would explore with a therapist if I were you, because there seems to definitely be a reason why obviously we're just not going to be able to unpack that in a call like this. And. But it's probably has something to do with your past, you know, some kind of past trauma with a boyfriend or a parent. I Don't know. But, you know, it's usually one of those things. But, yeah, I mean, if you're really tired of it, I would. I would invest in exploring that, you know, because eventually it is going to cause a rift in your relationship.

[Sylvia]

Yeah. And not to mention the fact that he's younger than me doesn't help the situation.

[Nick]

How much younger?

[Sylvia]

He's six years younger.

[Nick]

Okay. You've been together for six years?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Sylvia]

So.

[Nick]

Well, you don't look your age, so there you go. You look great, you know.

[Sylvia]

No, thank you, Mom. Thank you. I appreciate that. But it's just. I don't. I don't know. I just. I just. I hear you talking to other people, and I'm like, oh, my God, that's.

[Hannah]

Great advice, you know? Oh, my God, that's.

[Sylvia]

You know, that's something I would have said to my friends. And then I'm like, maybe he can. But I know it's like. It's, like, more in here, like, more in my head than anything. But, like, I. I also. I want to know, like, what he's thinking. And, you know, it hurts. And I don't. I don't. I don't. But.

[Nick]

But.

[Sylvia]

But I do because. Because I'll be like you.

[Nick]

Like, you clearly, like, torturing yourself. You know, I've always. The brain prefers pain to boredom, and you are getting stimulation off of this. It's preoccupying your mind. Maybe it's distracting. Maybe you've gotten used to doing this to distract you from other things, but, like, you were, in a way, getting off on this, and you are choosing to do nothing about it. If you can point out that this has been a pattern for a long time and you've done nothing about it, then that's a choice that you're making.

[Sylvia]

But the reason why I feel like I don't do anything about it is because I. I feel like I'm still. I still wonder and I still want to know. So even though I didn't do anything about it, I still, like, kind of. Like I said, I suppress my feelings and just kind of, okay, whatever it is, this is how I feel, and it is what it is. But, like, for example, like, I won't bring, you know, people to my house, like, females. I won't bring female friends over when he's around, and. And sometimes he'll be like, oh, your friend's coming.

[Hannah]

Great.

[Sylvia]

I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna go to my cousin's house, or I'm gonna go, you know, over here, and I Just. I don't know if he does it because he senses how I am or if it's just because he takes this as an opportunity to get the hell out and go hang out with his cousin and his friends. But I don't know. I, I. And I. And I've talked to therapist, actually, I have. I've seen several. And about. I don't know why, but that's. No, that's what I was gonna say. It's like, I don't know why, but I don't ever bring this up. This is not something that I. It's like, I'm ashamed. I'm embarrassed. I don't. I don't want to talk about it with, you know, somebody. And, and, yeah, I don't know.

[Nick]

Like, Like, I mean, you know, it's really up to you how much energy and time you want to keep putting into this.

[Sylvia]

Yeah, you're right.

[Nick]

You know, also, like, a therapist, you know that that's why you pay them money to not judge you, you know, to listen and work through your problems. It's like you can recognize it's a problem. You say you don't want to do it, but just, like, you do it anyways, and you don't do anything to change it, you know, but, like, you're demonstrating behaviors that are just, like, aren't normal or healthy, and it's obviously coming from a place, and you have. You should want to do something about it.

[Sylvia]

Yeah. So. So asking him is not like, I shouldn't be asking him.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Sylvia]

I shouldn't be like, so what did you think?

[Nick]

Well, I mean, I don't know. It's different for every couple. Other couples are more secure and, you know, and feel confident in the relationship, and it can be fun. Some couples enjoy, like, talking about, like, what they find attractive in other people and don't feel threatened and, you know, can have fun doing that, but, like, it doesn't seem like you can. So if it's triggering for you, it makes you, like, stalk random strangers because he acknowledged some girl as a nice ass again, especially because you asked him to and, like, fucking egged it out of him. But, like, you know, I did. Literally, I was like, yeah, are you checking out other men? Which there's no wrong answer. But, like, are you projecting your, like, how you look at other men. Men. And fantasize about other men into your partner? Or are you doing that and then assuming he's doing the same thing as you, you type of thing?

[Sylvia]

I mean, you may be right. I mean, I don't Sit there and be like, oh, my God, this guy's so fine. But it. You know, exactly.

[Nick]

Like you. You can. You can look at a guy and be like, oh, that's an attractive man. Oh, he's hot. Whatever. But, like, you don't. What do you. You don't. You don't.

[Sylvia]

But I. That. That. That's where I feel like. Well, like, it's different because men are wired differently. So men might.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, sure, they are wired differently, but, like, both men and women cheat sometimes for different reasons. But, like, the stats are pretty clear that it's pretty even. There's not. One doesn't cheat more than other, you know, like, they're. Human beings can be human beings, and human beings can often do shitty things for different reasons. So, like, him being a guy isn't, like. Doesn't make him more or less capable of cheating than you, the fact that you're a woman.

[Sylvia]

Right?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So I don't. I don't think, like, you know, it's like, you have to recognize that, like, yeah, it's like you choose him so you can look at a guy and be like, oh, he's attractive, and. And still be like, yeah, but, you know, there are other people in this world, and people are attractive, you know, and sometimes it's fun to just acknowledge the obvious and then know that you're securing your relationship, that you don't have to be threatened by, like, walking outside of your house.

[Sylvia]

Right. No.

[Hannah]

And.

[Sylvia]

And like. Like, we used to have. We used to have fun when we were. When we were a little younger. We used to play those little games, like, oh, you know, drive down, make sure. Drive and be like, oh, look at that. Whatever. But then, like, I. I don't know if it was maybe too much for me or. I don't know, but. And I've been really good about everything. But I think this last, like, this Halloween thing that happened kind of brought everything back up. And then. And then we were throwing a party, and I was like, oh, you know, over throwing a party. And then I started to overthink it. Like, what are these gonna be wearing? And, like, I just start, like, overthinking it. And then I'm just like, you know what it is? It's out of my hand. It's a Halloween party. They can wear whatever the they want. I don't know, you know, what else to do or, you know, and everything was fine. Like, nothing.

[Nick]

Are you and your husband connecting? You know, like, are you bonding? Are you, like, having setting? Like, what are you guys doing to stay connected and to reinforce the love and affection that is or isn't in your relationship?

[Sylvia]

Yeah, we. Yeah, no, I think. I think we have a good relationship. You know, we. We do things probably that, you know, may seem boring to other people. Like, you know, we watch Love island or we'll watch like shows together. And that's great.

[Nick]

But are you connecting when you do those things? Like, are. When you're. Are, you know, when you're being intimate, are you setting aside time to connect and be intentional about connecting, caressing each other, talking intimately about things like, you know, watching TV together is nice, but it's not really connecting.

[Sylvia]

No. Well, I, I feel like. I mean that. That's true. But you know, we, we do. We do. We talk a lot. I think we're now, now we are more connected than we've ever been as far as like in our relationship where. Where I think at our peak right now, we've been really good. We, you know, we do fight and b. Or whatever, like everybody. But nothing crazy like, I would consider to be my. I. I think I'm a lucky person. I know that there rough out there, so I, I feel like I'm a lucky girl to have, you know, him. And I feel like we do have a great relationship.

[Hannah]

I.

[Sylvia]

There's no complaint, you know, intimately. Not nothing. Like, we make sure that we make time for each other. We go out on dates. We, you know. No, we. I. That is true. Like, I can't complain about that. It's just like I said, it's just like it's in my head. I'm ruining it for off. He doesn't even know it because I don't bring it to him. I don't.

[Nick]

Like, maybe you should. I don't know, like you. You need to talk about it with someone other than me. And I, I would. I mean, if the short and obvious answer is I would. If I were you, I would look into a therapist to talk about why you do and feel the way you do and why you look to create unnecessary drama in your relationship. Relationship. Because that's what you're doing.

[Sylvia]

Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

[Nick]

And if you can acknowledge it, then you can change it.

[Sylvia]

Yeah, I know this is an issue.

[Nick]

For me, but as you've stated, you've known it's an issue for a long time and you've done nothing about it.

[Sylvia]

No, I've never done it. And even. And I don't know why, like, maybe during therapy, I just. I don't. I don't know Why I never brought it up. I just.

[Nick]

Well, who cares? It doesn't matter at this point. Forget about it. Water on the bridge, Wasted money. But if I were you, I would get a therapist. I'd walk into that meeting and say, this is why I'm here. I've been struggling with this specific problem. I'd like to understand why. I'd like to work on my own insecurities and find out why I, in some level, like, create unnecessary drama in my life or why I tend to self sabotage. But, like, I'm constantly feeling jealous and I'm looking to. I'm starting fights in a way. Like, it doesn't turn into a fight. Mostly because it seems like your husband doesn't engage in it. At least you know enough not to go there. But like, in your mind, you're fighting, you know, like, you shouldn't be stalking random women's Instagram the way you are for the reasons that you are. Like, and that's creating drama in your. In your mind.

[Sylvia]

It was one person.

[Nick]

Doesn't matter. One too many, you know, but like, and I'm sure you could give me other examples of things that you have done that I would be like, why are you doing that? Right? So that's really the point. So, yeah, that's what I would do. And. And I wouldn't just walk in and be like, hey, so, you know, I just thought I'd jump into therapy for fun or because or whatever and just someone to shoot the shit with. But like, you know, which would be fine too. But like, you have a very specific reason and something you want to work on. And if I were you, that's what I would do, you know, because you've tried to do it on your own. You can't. You haven't. You know, and that's okay because if you don't change it, eventually, you know, it will start causing problems.

[Sylvia]

Yeah, no, I will. It has before in the past, but I just. I know it's not anyone's fault, really, but his. So I try to just, you know.

[Nick]

I hope I was a little bit helpful, but I think this is a matter of perspective. I think you have to challenge yourself to not go down those rabbit holes. You have to, you know, with. With or without a therapist. You could. You. If, you know, if you can acknowledge that you. You should know better, then you can choose not to do the things. You can choose to not look up this person. You can say, hey, like, you cannot give in to your intrusive thoughts or your weak feelings. You know you can. You can choose and then you can talk to a therapist to figure out why you have these feelings in the first place or why it's so hard for you to follow through. Through.

[Sylvia]

Yeah, I will.

[Nick]

Okay, well keep us posted. Letting us all go that I'd be curious what you learned.

[Sylvia]

Thank you so much.

[Nick]

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[Hannah]

Great. My name is Hannah, I am 24 and I'm not sure if I made a mistake getting back together with my boyfriend.

[Nick]

Okay. It's usually not great that you're wondering.

[Hannah]

I mean I would, I would agree with that.

[Nick]

When did you break up and when did you get back together?

[Hannah]

So we broke up about a year and a half ago. So we had been dating for about a year and a half at that point. We broke up for about six months and then I move. Yeah. And then we got back together. So it's been about a year now that we've been okay together again.

[Nick]

And have you been feeling this doubt for the better part of a year or has that crept up recently?

[Hannah]

I would say that when we first like got back together I was honestly not 100% sure, but I think a lot of what I had been asking for when what which led to the breakup I was seeing so logically, it almost made sense because, like, I saw that he was putting in the work. Like, he was never willing to go to therapy before, but as soon as we broke up, it was like he started going to therapy. He started really connecting with his friends and doing. Doing things that I had, like, asked for. And he was really attentive and cared so much about me. And so I saw, like, all of that there and then, but I kind of had, like, a. I'm not really sure if this is the right thing, but I felt like almost like I would lose him if I didn't get back together because he had been putting in so much of the work over those six months to get into a place where, like, I trusted him again. And then the last year, collectively, I think that some of that effort has worn off, which, I mean, I know that that can happen in a relationship, but the biggest thing is that I moved across the country to move in with him, and, like, this is the third big move that I've made in the last three years.

[Nick]

So you got back together and then moved across the country for him a year later?

[Hannah]

Yeah. So a lot of effort there. And when we were moving, when I was moving across the country, he did not help with that move at all. I paid for everything. I did the move myself. I did it, like, with me and a friend and moved everything into the apartment. Found the apartment, like, helped with all of it, and the effort was not there, as much as I would have liked to see.

[Nick]

Do you live by yourself?

[Hannah]

I think I'm feeling that. Especially I live with him. So we're mo now. We moved in together there.

[Nick]

When you moved across the country, you immediately moved in with them, correct?

[Hannah]

Yep.

[Nick]

And you found the apartment?

[Hannah]

I found the apartment. We live with another couple, and I found them as well. So it's been a lot of effort on my side over the last few years.

[Nick]

You guys live with another couple?

[Hannah]

Correct?

[Nick]

What's that? Like, that's unique.

[Hannah]

It's honestly been. Yeah, no, I mean, we're young, and we're in a really big city, so it's expensive. But they're incredible, and I love them. And it's honestly been really nice to see another couple that's, like, our age and almost like we've been doing together around the same time as well. So it's kind of like a direct comparison, if you will. So seeing how they, like, interact versus, like, how we do is, like, definitely been. Been interesting.

[Nick]

Okay, so I guess at the end of the day, why are you feeling this doubt about your relationship or specifically your boyfriend?

[Hannah]

When we first broke up, like, I guess a little bit more context there I was like, he's a. He's a year and a half younger than me. We met in college and. And we were doing long distance and every two to three weeks, I was driving like 17 hours to go see him back when he was finishing up college and I. Or I'd be flying and I put in a lot of work there. And I kind of understood it then because he was finishing up school. And then he just, like, wasn't really super appreciative. He didn't care as much. And then I think that now, like, it's been kind of that same energy. And I just feel like maybe I was mistaken to get back with him because, like, maybe he hadn't been. Hadn't changed enough upon, like, getting back together or like during that time we were separated.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, no one changes that much in that short period of time. So there is just that kind of rule of thumb, silver lining. I mean, I guess you could look at it as, you know, your boyfriend's still relatively young and. And you never want to have to, like, break up with someone to get them to, like, respond. But, you know, not everyone responds the way you want them to when you decide to leave. And then, you know, you're right. You know, sometimes you get back together, things will fade. I think the big. That always happens, right? Like, whether you break up or not. But, like, there are, again, periods of connecting with your partner. Sometimes there are periods of feeling disconnected. The big question is, you know, if you start feeling disconnected with your boyfriend again and you. And you bring up, hey, just feeling a little disconnected and whatever the reasons, is he, you know, more willing to listen and respond rather than you having to threaten a breakup again? But that being said, my question to you right now is, is your doubts more about him doing or not doing things you want, or is it generally how you feel about him? Or are you starting to question, you know, it's like, I don't know, I'm 24. Is this really my guy? Is this really my future? You know, like, and you're just telling yourself it's more, you know, like you're kind of making excuses and putting on him, or as opposed to, if you're more honest with yourself, is this like, I don't know, do I really love this guy the way you know, or. Or maybe you want to, you know what I'm saying? Like, we're deep down what do you think? What do you think is driving this. This doubt?

[Hannah]

I think that a lot of it is that. But, like, I think that, you know, him being someone who comes from, like, a very, like, stable family, and I don't come from a stable of a family, and him, like, having all these things, like, boxes that he kind of checks, but also, like, not really seeing him, like, love me the way that I feel, like I need to be loved as much. Like, I've had those conversations, like, when I put in a ton of effort, he's not putting in that as well. So I'm almost feeling like, for someone who checks all these boxes as a person, like, I think I should be feeling more or, like, getting more. And I also, like. I guess I'm just, like, feeling, like, okay, if this is the best that I can do, I'm not as happy as I wish that I could be. And, you know, I feel so loved and cared about from, like, my friends, and they've, like, you know, helped me move across the country, and they have been by my side when things get hard a lot of the times. And he has other priorities. He focuses on work so much. He does all these things that, like, yes, are good and great, but I'm almost, like. I've explained to him so many times, like, at the end of the day, like, I was the one that is going to be there for you when you succeed. So I'd love if you were there for me, like, when I'm, you know, struggling or when I'm, like, trying to do these things for our relationship, like, I'm moving our relationship forward. And I almost just feel like he's not seeing this as an investment the same way that he sees, like, his work as an investment or, like, going to the gym as an investment, you know, like, it's not the same. And I think I. I do try really hard to, like, be a good girlfriend. And I put in a lot of work to our relationship that I feel like he doesn't, like, appreciate. But just because it's, like, there and it kind of is working for him, he doesn't feel like he needs to put in that effort because it's just kind of working as is. So I think I just, like, feel like I'm not getting.

[Nick]

What do you think? What are the things that you're doing that you feel like he's not appreciating?

[Hannah]

I mean, for one, I mean, moving across the country, putting in all of that work and him not being anywhere and just kind of showing up into his new apartment with everything moved. Oh, absolutely.

[Nick]

And then what was his response?

[Hannah]

I mean, I. I told him, like, during the move, like, the actual move while I was moving, that, like, I was really disappointed that he couldn't prioritize, like, coming and helping me at least a little bit. And there was ways that even with him not physically being there, that he could have helped, like, knowing that I hadn't, like, eaten all day, or, like, knowing that I hadn't, you know, like, that I was struggling with, like, you know, finding, like, a gas station or something. Like, he could have helped in other ways. And then the other thing is, during that whole move, he asked me for another favor on top of that. So it's like, almost like, not really empathizing with the whole how much work I've put into that.

[Nick]

And in that particular situation, did you express your expectations explicitly, or did you hope that he would meet your expectations without communicating them?

[Hannah]

See, I think that, like, looking back on it, if I had. But I think I could have done a better job of saying, like, hey, if you could show up for me in this way, like, I'd really appreciate it. But at the same time, like, there was. And I don't think I held that against. I still don't think I hold that necessarily against him. But I do think that, like, during the move, there were certain things that I was like, hey, like, we're trying. I'm trying to. I found a place. Here's the, like, all of the details. Like, I need you to send me this for, like, the security deposit, for example. And, like, he couldn't just, like, send, send that. I was trying to get everything lined up for him, and it was like, I need to go talk to, like, my mom or I need to go and, like, do this thing. And it was very, like, meeting or, like, not being super helpful or supportive. And it just felt like a lot of resistance, which I do think, in general, it's like, if I do set expectations with him, I'm almost, like, always a little bit disappointed. So I think I just, like, try to take things on myself. But I think in this move, like, not all of it, I can say is, like, his fault, but the way that he's responded to it since, it just, like, maybe wasn't, like, what I was looking for either.

[Nick]

Gotcha. Okay, question. What are your relationship and life goals? Life goals, including potential career goals and things like that. And what are his relationship and life goals that you're aware of as of today? You know, I'm curious. I'M curious about and the way I'm. The reason why I'm asking this question is I'm curious if you guys are in the same stage of life.

[Hannah]

I would say that we're pretty in similar stages of life. The only, like, so. So, yeah, we both are, like, starting our career. I have like, two jobs. I work as like, a wedding photographer and I also work like a full 9 to 5. So pretty busy, like throughout the week and as is he. But I would say that, like, I care a lot more about building relationships and friendships and, you know, more like working to live rather than living or, you know, I'm not trying to just, like, have a job and have that be my whole life. And I think that he's, like, more willing to put in that and then looking for, like, the future. I feel like I'm very kind of. I don't think I. I don't know if I want children, and he does want to have children, but I think I could be convinced. But I just think that if I. If I'm with a partner who I have to kind of like, be the project manager for or almost like, be more of the mom and like, make sure that things are, like, lined up. I just, like, feel really uneasy about bringing a child into the world. And I think that that's like, something that stresses me out, like getting into three years in a relationship with someone. I know it's not like, that long. And I also know that I'm only 24. But at the same time, it's like, if you're in a serious relationship and they're interested in having children, like, someday that might be the case. So I kind of, like, look at him and I'm like, okay, are you stepping up for me in the way that I would potentially need if I brought a child into this world? So I do think that there's a huge difference there. But I think it's also just like, I didn't have a super stable family growing up, so I think that I'm a little bit more hesitant for the whole kid situation.

[Nick]

How much does he still rely on. On mom and dad?

[Hannah]

Honestly? Like, he comes from an extremely wealthy family, and I had. I was like, grew up in poverty. So he still relies on them for a lot of things just because they will give it to him. And he, like, calls his dad all the time for, like, advice on work or to, like, get his, like, resume checked or to like, for a job interview for connections. And he.

[Sylvia]

They.

[Hannah]

His parents still pay for his groceries, and that's like something that like he's like, well, if they're going to do it, like, might as well take advantage of it. And I have always been so independent that I think it's like there's nothing, I guess wrong with it, but it definitely is like a, it's, it's a little bit tough for me to, to like not be independent in some ways like that.

[Nick]

You're 24, he's a year and a half younger than you. So he's like 22 and a half. Right? That's super young for a guy. These days in general, men are maturing slower than. Men have always matured slower than women. And I just think in 2024 we're expecting a lot less I think of young adults, of young adults in general and specifically men. So. And there's exceptions to every rule and maybe your boyfriend's one of them. That being said, it's just like if you're gonna date a younger man as a 24 year old woman, I think you need to be willing to be very good at stating your expectations rather than hoping they meet your expectations. And I think we all, you know, it's like listen and we all want to, you know, we don't want to be the nag, you know, and we don't have to want to tell people want to do things and we want them to want to do things for us. Are you his first girlfriend? First serious girlfriend. You know, so there's a, you know, there's a little bit of learning here on his end if you know, it's his first type of thing. So there is that. Now that doesn't mean you need to do that so to speak. But you know, you gotta kind of ask yourself kind of what you want now and where you want to go, so to speak. A lot of the things that you're expressing I think just are kind of normal feelings. But you know, I mean, do you love them kind of thing in, in your heart, do you feel like you really care about this man and love him or are you comfortable with him? I mean there also must be a draw of him coming from a rich family and there's that. I mean, I don't know.

[Hannah]

No, I mean he's, I think that he like then you look at him on paper and in general, like you're like, wow, like what a, what a cool guy. And I do think that I like, I mean, I know that I love him for, you know, being with him for three years and all these things. We've done a lot Together. I. I will say, though, that, like, there's so much that I feel like we not even, like, butt heads on. And I get, like, I do completely. I. Listening to your show all the time. Like, I know that I'm like, okay, Nick's gonna say that. Like, he's. He's 23. He's younger than you. Like, he's not mature. Like, I get all of that. But it's like. Like, he. He has shown efforts, like, in spurts, where it's like, okay, yeah, he. He's saying what I like. I'm setting expectations. He's doing those things for a few months. Right. He kind of falls back into this, like, almost being lazy with it or thinking that I'm just gonna still be there. And I get that, but it's almost like, I don't know if I truly feel super, like, loved. Like, sure, I might say that I love him, but it's like, I don't feel loved because I have to keep nagging. And I do think that it's like, after three years, like, some of the foundation of, like, hey, this is. I get that, like, setting expectations is so important, but, like, I do think I am someone who over communicates rather than under communicates. And I do think that it's, like, a situation where, like, I do love him. And I do see that, like, there's so. So many. Yes. Obviously, having, like, a rich family, having that stability is something that I never had. And I think in some ways, because I have had no relationship models, it's like, is this normal that, you know, it's so hard for us to have a conversation without it, like, becoming an argument. Like, he literally said recently that, like, he doesn't really see the point of having a conversation if it's. If we're not, like, arguing about something. And I'm like, what does that even mean? So it's tough to, like, talk about things that I care about or that I'm passionate about because he's like, it'll cut the conversation almost, and just, like, you know, talk about work or things that he's interested in. So it's like, sort of like, are these things normal, or am I just being kind of in my head about, like, okay, well, maybe I don't know what a healthy relationship looks like. And maybe it's like, because. Because of how I grew up, that I don't think that this. This is how it should feel.

[Nick]

What are you arguing about?

[Hannah]

Well, for. For example, there was a conversation around parental leave, which I think that I'D be interested to hear your take on, too. But, like, it came up that, you know, fathers should. I ask him basically, like, how long do you think that men should go on parental leave? And he said, well, my dad only took three weeks. And I said, well, I think that, like, at least, like, you know, a few months or until, like, your wife is in a better position to, like, you know, like, when she doesn't need you anymore or when she's feeling comfortable, like, then you can go. And especially if you're in a financial position to do that. Like, I think that you should be able to prioritize, like, how your wife is or you're literally the mother of your child is feeling. And he was just, like, kind of arguing for the sake of arguing. And I was like, hey, like, you know that I'm kind of, like, on the fence about having children. And this is one of those conversations.

[Nick]

Back up for a second. What do you mean by. You think he was arguing? Arguing for the sake of arguing. Why do you say that he does that?

[Hannah]

Like, he does that, like, a lot where, Like, I'll say, hey, Like, I didn't think that this joke that you made about, like, women or something was that funny. And, like, can you explain specifically to this.

[Nick]

That is specifically this argument? Yeah, I. I just mean, like, you asked him a question about parental leave, right? And it sounds like that created some kind of disconnect between the two of you. Like, yeah. And you mentioned, like, was he joking? Like, I guess I. I want to stay on. On this.

[Megan]

He.

[Hannah]

I think that. Yeah, I think that he was. He was like, he wasn't joking in that situation. I think he was genuinely just being like, well, I don't really see the. The point of maybe doing the. The whole, like, longer parental leave. Like, maybe he didn't understand his role. So I was like, hey, like, let's have a conversation about it, right? Like, I was kind of like, hey.

[Nick]

Like, yeah, I mean, I'm nitpicking here, I guess, but, yeah, I feel like you both played a role in that disconnect. Right? Like, so, you know, I get why you asked your boyfriend. That makes sense. You, you know, it's like, here's my boyfriend you've been dating for three and a half years. You guys know, you're young, but, you know, I'm sure for you, 24 feels old because you've never been 24 before, you know, and relatively speaking, right. You know, you asked him a question what he thinks about a topic that he quite honestly doesn't even, probably even have that strong of opinion. His answer was to give you what he knows best, you know, kind of his role model, his hero is his d dad. So his answer makes a lot of sense. I'm, I don't know. My dad did this. You know, my dad's a pretty good dad. I feel like I had a good childhood, so that's what I would do. You know, times have changed. I also think, like, honestly, questions like those in Europe in the position that you two are in are like, Anna, kind of like they're only going to create fights. You know, you guys aren't family planning. You don't even know if you want to have kids. Now, I understand to a certain level these are types of questions that maybe you want to ask to see what kind of partner they are. And everyone's situate. You don't know what position you guys will be in. You know, like, I have to, I run a company. You know, I don't get vacation days or parental leave or things like that of a lot of people. Now. I, I pride myself in being a very attentive husband and father. But like, you know, I didn't like, leave. I, I didn't like, leave work for a month. We, I did a lot of work leading up to try to like, give leave myself from taking time off. I also had, have, you know, I can come and go I guess on some level when I please, but like, I was able to still get work done and still be there for my wife and baby early on, but it's not, I, I, you know, so everyone's situation's different. I think what you're looking for is the reassurance that like, you will have a partner that will sit down with you at whatever time. You guys need to sit down and figure out what you two need, need for whatever those needs are and that you feel comfortable and safe to say, hey, I need this right now. And then you're, I'm guessing, looking for, you know, a response. It's like at the end of the day, babe, I want to do what you need me to do, right? You guys are getting into like a debate. And honestly, when I was 22, 23, 24, I, I got into a lot of those types of fights with my girlfriends at those times. And you know, but part of it is, honestly, is you guys, guys, you know, not to sound con like you guys are, that's part of the growing up. You know, you guys are figuring things out. You're, you're still at a relatively young Age, sometimes you kind of have to have. Sometimes these arguments and discussions are kind of normal, you know, to a certain extent.

[Hannah]

No, and that's so true. Like, I, I, I, like, completely hear you on that. And I think that that's, like, something that I've been really working on or just, like, trying to facilitate more of those conversations. Because you're so right. Like, if I'm just, like, asking a question that he has no idea about, the same thing. If you ask me a question about, like, sports, I don't have a good answer for. It's like, I'm not going to sound great, and I'm going to be honestly listening to him to, like, hear his perspective, maybe, because I could learn something. And that's kind of like maybe how I felt like that conversation could have gone. But, I mean, other things, like, like, if I am bringing up. Well, like, I don't know if you remember, like, the whole Gabby Petito situation. She, like, passed away, like, her, like, husband murdered her, basically. And this was something that was happening during, like, the pandemic. Pandemic. And I remember talking to him about this, and it was, like, something that I was really interested in. And I was like, hey, there's so many, like, things that could have been changed in this process. And I think it's so, like, important to pay attention to current events. Current events and, like, these things that happen to women because, like, you could prevent it. Like, if you saw any of these things that happened and he's like, you should really not be, like, reading into those things. You shouldn't be paying attention to those things. Like, that all that stuff is, like, scary messing with your head. And I'm like, hey, like, I think it's important to care about women, especially someone who's, like, passed away way. And so, like, that is something that, like, things that I really do care about or things that I'm like, hey, like, let's have a conversation about this. Because I'm feeling it. He, like, likes to shut those down. And I think that that's, like, maybe where that, like, oh, arguing for the sake of arguing. That feeling came from. You're right. That maybe it wasn't that. But I definitely think that there is that energy a lot when we were having these conversations, rather than, like, you know, just, just, like, listening to. For the sake of listening.

[Nick]

Yeah. In that Gabby story, I guess if you could remember, like, what, what kind of response were you hoping for? Like, what would it have been? The person.

[Hannah]

I think, I think that it was more like to Listen and to hear and be like, oh my gosh, like that, that's, like that's, that is terrible. Or oh my gosh, like that's. Yeah, that is crazy. Or wow. I feel like there is like a lot like kind of having a conversation about like these different parts that could have, you know, gone better for her being like, oh yeah, like, wow, like we should be more aware of those things.

[Nick]

I do think it sounds like maybe, maybe I don't think you're deliberately trying to test him, but it, it, it does seem like sometimes you create up conversations that like it sounds like he maybe not know what to say or what type of what you're looking for. And then he doesn't give you the response that you want. Then you react to that and then he's kind of trying to shut down the conversation. He's like, what are we even talking about here? And I feel again, when I was your age, age, I, I did have a lot of those debates and conversations. So I think part of it is, you know, one, it's. I think it's somewhat normal. I think you guys are both kind of learning, you know, it's your early in dating you're trying to get to. This is kind of how you guys get to know each other, but your thoughts and feelings are going to evolve. I'm not sure exactly. Yeah, I could see, I could see if I, if I were to be able to like watch this conversation again where I could see a world where I was like, hey, I could see. Maybe you shouldn't have said it that way. And then maybe I could have a note for him or whatever and things like that. My guess is you buy are both playing a role into these kind of arguments that really don't impact you guys all that much. It sounds like directly.

[Hannah]

No, I like hear what you're saying and I definitely think that you're probably right about the testing because I do think that there is a lot of me not maybe feeling as like appreciated on the day to day or just like in general maybe not feeling as loved. And so maybe it is kind of like me being like, hey, like in this conversation something that I care about. Like this is me showing you that I care about something like how are you responding? Because on the day to day it's like maybe I don't feel as cared about or like as heard. However, I do think that like you're, you're, you're right and that I probably am like testing things more than I should. And I guess like my, I Guess maybe a question to you is like, if you were to go back to when you were 24 and having these conversations with like, your partners, how would you facilitate those conversations? Or really, like, not like testing, but like, how do you. How do you know? And how do you know if it's not just like, we're so different that maybe this like, won't work? Or if it's like, you know, or maybe, maybe we do care about each other, but how do we like, cut the bullshit kind of and get to what really matters and to connect? Because that's really. I think what I'm looking for is like the connection, right?

[Nick]

What does. I mean, that's the thing you gotta ask yourself, what does really matter to you? You know, Natalie and I, like, we don't. We care about what's in front of us. We care about our daughter, we care about our connection, we care about our families. Neither of us are very political. She can do what she wants type of thing. And, you know, and I think we're pretty aligned as well. But at the same time, I just, like, I just know as a young man I cared about a lot of things that I, you know, I don't give a fuck about now. It's like I have an opinion, you know, and I think there's a difference. I think you realize this, you know, as you get older. There's a difference between having an opinion about something and caring about something. I can have opinion about anything, right? And I'm pretty good at having a strong opinion. And I can give a pretty like, hot take about kind of anything but caring, keeping it with me, hanging onto it, needing to be right, wanting to have an argument with people, people making sure people hear my point of view. I mean like 95% of the things I quote, unquote, cared about or are more more accurately, wasted my energy on because I wanted to be right or I felt like I needed to be heard. And you know, I just, I don't give a anymore because it really doesn't show up at my front door. And I don't mean to sound like selfish, right? You know, but yeah, you get older, you care about your family, you care about what's really that, your day to day problems, your immediate concerns, part of you kind of, you know, as too I say single you're not, you know, but like, you two only really have yourselves to care about, you know, and so when you're young, you can have the benefit and the time to care about other things that really don't impact your Life all that much. So I think part of it, like what sounds like a lot, what you are feeling and going through with your boyfriend is generally normal. I don't really have an answer for you whether it sounds like this is your guy or not. I will say in general I think men, men as you, I know, are not as good as multitasking as women.

[Hannah]

True.

[Nick]

And I think, you know, even though society definitely accepts and quite honestly, there are going to be more and more women in the workforce than men just because women are being college educated at a much faster pace than men these days. That being said, I still think there's a natural need for men to figure their shit out before they can really be, be, you know, focused on their relationships and things like that. I've always had the intent of being a great partner, but I think I am capable of being a much better partner now because I am not trying to figure out what I should be doing with my life, you know, and now my, I mean I spend a lot of my energy and time focused on work, but the motivation is for my family. And so even me going to work and working has a purpose that I didn't have. Like when I was younger my purpose was like I was trying to make my dreams come true and I didn't even know what my dreams were. And I was trying to make a certain amount of money because I thought I should. I. But I didn't really have a purpose or a focus or a goal and that felt very unsettling for me. And so a lot of my energy went towards that. I always wanted to have a girlfriend. I often did have a girlfriend in my 20s. But you know, and quite honestly, honestly sometimes I felt like I spent too much energy focused on relationships where I maybe could have spent more energy focused on my career. And I think it is harder for people your guys age to try to do both, honestly, especially this day and age. 30 years ago you2 would already be engaged or married and you know, you guys would kind of figure your shit out, right? But now we don't expect that of our 20 year olds these days. You know, our 20 year olds were telling them all right, now that you graduated from college, college, now's your kind of time to travel and be selfish, try a couple different jobs, maybe in a couple different careers. And when you're 30, hopefully you have yourself figured out whether it's your career or what you want to do with your family, you know, and I think that's kind of the generalized societal expectation that we have and so, and him coming from a wealthy, accomplished family, he probably has a little bit more pressure to do that as well, you know, so there's. That he's, you know, facing and dealing with. With. Maybe the answer to your question is to. Maybe you don't need to figure it out right now. You don't know if you want to have kids. So, like, your biological clock maybe isn't as ticking as loud as maybe other women your age who. Who are 100% certain. You know, at the same time, you know, I think your big concern is like, you don't want to, like, you want a boyfriend, you don't want a boy who's a friend kind of thing.

[Megan]

Too.

[Hannah]

True. Yeah.

[Nick]

That you, you know, but just a.

[Hannah]

Roommate or just a. Yeah.

[Nick]

And on one end, you have to recognize that your boyfriend, it's his first relationship and there is some training. On the flip side, you don't want to be his mom, so, you know, you're. There's no clear answer for you, you know, sorry, I don't. Being all that helpful.

[Hannah]

No, no, no.

[Nick]

Yeah, that.

[Hannah]

I mean, I think that. I think that that is helpful. And I mean, I think that it. I think it's positive that, like, we've been to make it back for like three years and whatever, blah, blah. And I think that we, like, still have some of that, like, fight in us. I mean, I know that I do, but I think that, like, this moving across the country and doing all these things for someone is like, kind of like, it does feel like big things, right. And I just almost feel like for the big, like for the things that we have done together. And yes, we're still young, but it feels very, like, significant. It just feels like this should be someone that I am, like, willing to go to the end with. And it's almost like that those conflicting feelings of, like, we're doing all these big things, but I'm almost feeling like.

[Nick]

Whoa, I, you know, and I think you could find those moments where you could challenge him in a way that doesn't feel emasculating, like testing, condescending, you know, but like, the move is a perfect example. Like, either you. What you could have done is one upfront, been like, hey, I really need your help here. I'm moving, like, for you, quite honestly, across the country. So, like, you know, as you started looking, you could say, hey, I want you to be more involved in this. Can we do this together? So that could have been something you guys could have done together, shared that experience. He didn't do that and you didn't communicate that. So the second best option were for you to been like, hey, man, I was really bummed that you we didn't do this together. And then this is where the quote unquote, like, challenging him is like, I, you know, listen, like, I love that your dad is your role model, and I think it's great that you have someone like that to go to for advice. But, like, I want to see you, like, step up for us and for me and. And be there for yourself and. And take the initiative and like, yeah, you know, challenge him to grow up a little bit. Sometimes you don't want to say grow.

[Hannah]

Up, but, well, 100%. And I will say, like, adding onto the move, because I, like, during. So there was like, the. Me moving stuff into his studio apartment for, like, me going from my moving across the country into his studio apartment, me finding the apartment. And then there was the second move where he did come back here, and I scheduled, like, the movers. And at that point, I had that conversation with him saying, like, I really wish if you, like, that you had stepped up. Like, this was really hard for me. And he, like, acknowledged that I did put in a lot of work with that. But then when the movers came and, like, I had scheduled that, he decided to, like, halfway through that process, he, like, was like, okay, I need to go to the gym and I need to, like, study for this, like, interview that he had coming up at the end of the week. Like, it wasn't super pressing and it was only one day, but again, it was kind of like a. I. I do want to say that, like, I appreciate how hard working he is, and I do appreciate, like, all of that. But at the same time, it is like, that was a moment, I think, during the move where I was like, okay, I. You didn't have to go to the gym. And also you could have waited till like, the next day to maybe prepare for this. For this interview. And I mean, he didn't get that. Unfortunately, he did not get the job. And it was more of like an info session or like an informational interview rather than like, there was a job job that he could have gotten. And so it just kind of like, was like a. Okay, this is, you know, losing a little, like, few points with me. So that was disappointing. But I do. I do agree that there's, like, probably smaller things than that, like, on the day to day that it's like, hey, can you, like, step up and do this? Rather than waiting for these big things where there's like very high emotions. And obviously it's like both of our first times like moving in with someone. So like, I get that it's tough to test someone in those high stress situations, but it definitely is also like telling. I guess for me, like, if something really bad were to happen in the future, I immediately go to like the big things that have, we've like gone through together. And I'm like, did he step up for me? Not really. And I guess it's just like it is like setting expectations is important. Yes. But I also think like, if, if it was me, I wouldn't need the expectations. I just would want to do it.

[Nick]

He's not.

[Hannah]

And I like wouldn't have to be asked. I know. And he's not me. But that's a tough thing. Like.

[Nick]

Well, it's not that tough. We just have to recognize that, you know, I would do. This isn't like a measuring stick. I mean you can.

[Hannah]

True.

[Nick]

You know, you might have different love languages, you might have different personalities. You could be more extroverted or introverted than him, yada yada. Like you're different people. You know, you, you come from different family backgrounds. That's significant, especially in terms of like how you guys would handle yourself in different situations. I'm guessing you probably had to be a lot more independent a lot earlier in life than he ever had to. Right. And you know, he's a very privileged young man who like, you know, his parents decided to like I, you know, paying for your 24 year old, 22 year old son's groceries is definitely a choice. And it's a choice his parents are making.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I guess if they can afford to pay for his groceries his whole life, you know. True. But like that's a choice. It's a choice that I don't think I'll be making for myself. Daughter, I very much am grateful of the childhood I had and that childhood included my parents like getting by and I, you know, right at a very early age I understood that my parents would do their very best to get me what I needed and they did a great job of that. But things I wanted, I had to get a job even as a 8 or 9 year old to, to buy whatever it was. And so I understood the value of need versus want. Wouldn't shock me if your boyfriend struggles with that because a lot of the things that he's wanted and needed, his parents have always kind of helped him out, you know, and he's never, you know, and that's, that's and maybe his parents that are still did a great job of teaching a work ethic in him. It sounds like he's a pretty motivated young man. You know, it's like there's, there's different. Different. There's a lot of different good and parenting styles.

[Hannah]

But right.

[Nick]

To oversimplify, like there's a part of me, when I'm hearing you talk, I hear someone who like, quite honestly, you might be better matched with someone who is a little bit more further along in life in their maturity, specifically around relationships. That doesn't mean that you should break up with your boyfriend and go find a 30 year old man. It just means that like you might then need to recognize that and stop trying to have that type of relationship with the person you're with. You have to accept on some level level that the person you're choosing to be in a relationship with is a little younger than you. It's his first relationship. So regardless of his age, he's inexperienced and you have to stop trying to get him to play catch up, so to speak. And you have to accept where he is to a certain level, you know, and you're gonna have to find that balance between challenging him to step up, grow up and mature versus accepting that you're dating a 22 year old man who's fresh out of college, incredibly early in his, in his career, may not be entirely sure what's he, what he wants to do with his career. And you know, that's taking a lot of his emotional energy and time and you're, you might have to give up a little bit of expectations I guess in a, and you know, in a way it doesn't mean you should put up with bullshit or feel disrespected. But like, you know, you're going to have to find that balance, so to speak, you know. And the good news is since you're not sure you want to have kids, like I said, it's not like you're like, hey, I want to have, you know, I want to have kids by the time I'm 26, which would have been a normal feeling, you know. And I might say, hey, maybe this is not your guy, you know, like so.

[Hannah]

No, and that's, and that's true. There's like no pressure figuring it out now. Yeah, yeah. No, but I, no, I mean, I appreciate that. I think that it's like, it's like good to kind of take a, take a step back and realize that like it doesn't need to be figured out right now. And while like, being with someone for three years and moving across the country does seem significant. It's like, there's still many more years before I'd ever want to, like, actually get married or think about having children seriously. So, like, it doesn't really matter. And I'm also.

[Nick]

So, yeah, my biggest thing for you is, is your boyfriend willing to adapt and grow as you. As his partner, or is he constantly resistant to evolving? You know, how set in his ways is he? Is he willing to, from time to time, for various reasons, sit down with you and decide as a couple ways you guys want to grow as both individuals and as a couple, does he go to you? Is, you know, are you a confidant or is it always his dad? Yeah, you know, like, are you growing that connection? I would focus more on that rather than, like, giving him, like, that's a very, like, interview question. Give him a situation. Ask him how you would respond. What would you do in this situation? You know, it's like, oh, man.

[Hannah]

Yeah. No, I mean, that's. That's true. I mean, I do think that, like, he respects his dad's or some other guys, like, opinions, maybe more than. More than mine, but I do think he, like, comes to me with things. He might not, like, listen to that, but I think it's also just, like, you know, like. Sure, yeah. I do think that there is, like, some willingness to, like, grow and learn, but he is very, very routine, more than I am. And I do think that I, like, accommodate that so much more than he would accommodate what I want to do. But at the same time, I think I'm, like, way more confident in my, like, independence. But, like, that kind of almost, like, doesn't bring us together. Right. Like, if he's very kind of stuck in his ways and does his thing, but I'm also okay with just doing my own thing. Like, it kind of separates us. So I think that, like, moving forward, for sure, I would love to figure out ways to, like, bridge that and connect more. Because instead of us just doing everything that he wants to do or me just doing it by myself, like, I'd love for us to do things that we could, you know, compromise on and do together. So who.

[Nick]

Who likes who more? Do you think he ever questions his relationship with you?

[Hannah]

I. Okay. I mean, this is. I feel this all the time, and I'm very confused by it because I do think I care more, but I feel like he doesn't. He. I feel like he could like me. I mean, I don't know, Nick. I honestly Feel like he. I don't know if he loves me as much as he could, but I also think I'm the only thing that he has to compare love to. So I'm sure he loves me more than, than not. I don't know.

[Nick]

Do you know? I mean, and it's hard to say. I know he wants to have kids someday, but do you know, not that his answers really matters, but like, is he someone who like, yeah, I want to get married when I'm 30, or is he like trying to get married soon?

[Hannah]

Yeah, like that's, that's a long time away from him. Right? Like, I think he wants to be like a, like a younger dad, but like 530 or something or like whatever because our parents are older. But at the same time, like, I think that there's so much that needs to happen before then. And I keep telling him to like, the reason why he has such a wonderful dad is because he also has a wonderful mom that was able to do everything at home while like his dad went out to work. And like, the reason why he's had like such a good childhood is because he had two great parents that like, were great support systems for each other and like understood that balance. And I think that like, you know, his dad would not have been able to go to work as much as he did if he didn't have like an incredible mom holding down the house and things like that. And I'm never going to be someone who like, would want to be a stay at home all mom all the, all the time. But I also like, have a lot of my own, like, business ventures and things that I want to do independently so I could like, do some more of that. But I definitely think it's like when you're with a man, in my opinion, and you have a child, it's like that man is responsible for protecting your independence more than anyone else. And I think that's like, what gives me some fear is like when I become a mother, like if I do someday day, like my husband or the father of my child is like going to be the one who gets to protect my independence. And if he can't fight for that, I get a little bit nervous. But you're so right. Like, we are so young and I don't think he's really thinking about that. But I like, think about it a lot just because like, I had to grow up very quickly and I was very independent. And I think that that like, gives me fear, but at the same time it's like not Pressing, like you said. And the biological clock may be with the right person, I would want to have. Have kids or maybe someday, like, with maturity, he could be that person. But there's also adoption and there's also other options in the future as well.

[Nick]

So it is something I want to make sure you're aligned on. I don't think it's that important right now, but. And what. And right. You have a good relationship with his parents. How. How close are you with his mom?

[Hannah]

His mom is tough. So we have, like, we've. We've kind of gone back and forth. I think she's, like, the hardest person that I've, like, had to, like, win over Uber. But, like, we've gotten dinner, like, a couple times, and we've talked, like, sometimes, and I'll, like, send her pictures from time to time. But, like, she definitely doesn't, like, treat me like a. Like a. Like a daughter or anything. But also, like, I don't have a great relationship with my mom. So, like, the whole, like, mother situation is, like, a little bit tough. And maybe it's like me not interacting with her all that well. But, like, I get along with all of his aunts and his dad really well and his sister, so, like, I'm pretty. Pretty. I've gone on family vacations with them at this point, so she likes me enough to allow me to go to those things.

[Nick]

In summary, I don't know. I'm not hearing be like, yeah, definitely break up with this guy or anything like that.

[Hannah]

Good. Yeah.

[Nick]

I think rather than giving him situational questions that sound like almost like a test, maybe instead of asking him things that you guys could do as a couple, to stay and be connected or set goals for each other, other for your relationship and make sure they're reasonable. I like that, you know, whatever those goals are, you know, as long as you guys are working towards something, you know, and again, I like that if he. If he. If you're both showing a willingness to grow together, that's a good sign for this relationship, especially with you guys both being young. If you're constantly butting heads at, like, some core differences that you have, and neither are you willing to budge, maybe you're not as compatible as you want to be, and maybe it's just like you're just different people, you know, but you won't want to check in. You being his girlfriend, you know, you. There's definitely going to reach a point where he's going to question if you're, you know, if there's other fish in the sea. There's definitely a possibility.

[Hannah]

Well, I'm, I'm looking forward to that. I'd like for him to, like, question that, because I want to be, like, chosen for being me, not just because, like, I'm the only option, you know, Like, I would, like.

[Nick]

Did you guys date in your breakup?

[Hannah]

No. I mean, no, he. No, we both, we both really did not. And he focused a lot more on, like, I. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought, too. I wish that he had.

[Nick]

Well, you seem to have, like.

[Hannah]

I have dated other people.

[Nick]

Yeah. Good outlook on it. I, I, I think maybe you, you might be overthinking a bit. And it sounds like some of the relationship problems you guys have are, are fairly normal for the stage in life that you guys are in. And if you're willing to be patient, then this could definitely work. If your patience runs thin and he's not showing you the progress that you want to see, or maybe your biological clock speeds up, so to speak, and you start, you know, having greater relationship demands and he's capable of giving you, then you might have to reevaluate that. But it doesn't sound like. Yeah, that's that, you know, does that make sense? I know it's a little vague.

[Hannah]

No, I think, I think. No, no, no. I think that that makes, like, a lot of sense. And as, as, like, you say it's big, but I think it's. I think it is helpful just to, like, slow it down. And I do feel like, you know, life. Life feels like it moves quickly. Right. But it's like, you know, there's so much that can happen even just in a year. And I think that, like, this first year of us living together, like, I do want to see if we can, you know, get into a place where we're both really happy and working towards those goals. And I think that that's a good way to kind of have those conversations and set goals for each other. And by the end of this year, when our lease is up and if we renew it or not, like, that can be a good kind of benchmark to see. Or next year, if we renew the lease, like, give it some time, but before we move anywhere else, like, really make sure that we're in a good place and we want to move forward together.

[Nick]

Well, thank you for the call.

[Hannah]

No, I appreciate it.

[Nick]

Hopefully, this was helpful.

[Hannah]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Yeah. And best of luck. Yeah. Just.

[Hannah]

No, thank you so much.

[Nick]

Keep checking in with each other. Try not to sweat the small stuff.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And just know he is he's still evolving as a man.

[Hannah]

No, absolutely. I appreciate that. All right, take care.

[Nick]

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