E855 Ask Nick - His Ex-Enagement Ring

Summary

The Viall Files - Episode E855: Ask Nick - His Ex-Engagement Ring

Release Date: December 16, 2024
Host: Nick Viall

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Overview

In Episode E855 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall tackles two heartfelt listener questions that delve deep into the complexities of long-term relationships and personal trauma. The episode provides insightful advice on navigating friendship conflicts and coping with unsettling revelations about a loved one’s past. Notably, Nick emphasizes empathy, communication, and self-reflection as key components in resolving these personal dilemmas.

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Listener Call: Beth - Concern Over Boyfriend's Ex-Engagement Ring

Timestamp: [22:52] - [46:28]

Beth's Dilemma:

Beth, a 24-year-old listener, reaches out with a troubling concern: her 27-year-old boyfriend still possesses his ex-girlfriend's engagement ring from a relationship that ended in 2020. Despite multiple assurances from him to part with the ring, over three years later, it remains in his possession. Beth is anxious about this lingering symbol, especially as she envisions a future involving marriage and family.

Key Points Discussed:

• Emotional Impact: Beth feels conflicted, wondering if her boyfriend’s reluctance to discard the ring signifies unresolved feelings or a lack of commitment to their relationship.

• Boyfriend’s Perspective: Nick explores the possibility that the boyfriend is handling past trauma or feels guilt over the previous relationship, leading to his reluctance to part with the ring.

• Communication Strategies: Nick advises Beth to shift her approach from demanding the removal of the ring to fostering open, empathetic communication. He suggests writing a heartfelt letter expressing her feelings without placing blame, stating, for example, “I love you and want to move forward together.”

• Empathy and Patience: Emphasizing understanding, Nick encourages Beth to consider her boyfriend’s emotional state and the potential reasons behind his hesitation, advocating for patience and support rather than confrontation.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick: “[09:03] ...sometimes when we feel like things are piling on, it's easy to see ourselves as a victim of just life of circumstance.”
• Beth: “[09:04] ...she's not my only friend, but I love her.”
• Nick: “[09:17] ...this is all kind of happening in a moment where she just felt like she felt left out, and this is how she's handling it. So if I were you, no, I wouldn't throw it away.”

Conclusion for Beth:

Nick advises Beth to prioritize rebuilding her connection with her boyfriend through empathy and open dialogue, rather than focusing solely on the removal of the engagement ring. By creating a supportive environment, Beth can encourage her boyfriend to share his feelings and work together towards a mutually fulfilling relationship.

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Listener Call: Amanda - Discovering Her Deceased Father’s Affair

Timestamp: [49:39] - [75:10]

Amanda's Struggle:

Amanda, a 30-year-old listener, shares a painful discovery: after her father’s sudden passing in an accident two to three months ago, she found a disturbing message on his memorial page revealing a seven-year affair with a 19-year-old woman. This revelation has shattered her idealized image of her father and left her grappling with anger, confusion, and the challenge of reconciling her cherished memories with this new, troubling information.

Key Points Discussed:

• Emotional Turmoil: Amanda expresses intense anger towards the woman who exposed her father’s affair and towards her father himself, struggling to maintain the positive memories she has of him.

• Processing Grief: Nick emphasizes the importance of separating the man from his actions, acknowledging that while her father was an amazing father, he was also flawed. This duality is crucial for Amanda’s healing process.

• Empathy and Forgiveness: Nick encourages Amanda to forgive the woman who revealed the affair, understanding that the woman was likely acting from a place of pain and hurt. He advises against holding onto misplaced anger, suggesting that it hampers Amanda’s ability to grieve and move forward.

• Support Systems: Highlighting the importance of leanings on her husband and therapist, Nick reassures Amanda that seeking support is vital in navigating her complex emotions.

• Closure and Letting Go: Nick advises Amanda to focus on preserving the positive memories of her father and letting go of the negative revelations. He suggests maintaining cherished memories while acknowledging her father’s humanity and imperfections.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick: “[54:40] ...her selfishness came from a place of pain and hurt.”
• Amanda: “[54:06] ...trying to understand the intentions with sharing that post.”
• Nick: “[61:12] ...good people do bad things all the time. And I think when good people do bad things, there's some version of them kind of taking things for granted or getting caught up in the moment.”

Conclusion for Amanda:

Nick advises Amanda to focus on grieving and honoring the positive aspects of her relationship with her father while acknowledging and accepting his imperfections. By fostering empathy towards the woman who exposed the affair and seeking support from her husband and therapist, Amanda can begin to reconcile her pain and preserve the loving memories of her father without being overshadowed by his mistakes.

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Final Thoughts

In this episode, Nick Viall adeptly handles sensitive and emotionally charged questions from listeners, providing compassionate and practical advice. Whether it's addressing the remnants of past relationships lingering in current ones or coping with the discovery of a loved one's hidden turmoil, Nick emphasizes the importance of empathy, understanding, and open communication. His guidance helps listeners navigate their personal challenges with grace and introspection, underscoring the essence of maintaining healthy and supportive relationships.

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Quote Highlights

• Nick on Empathy: “[09:03] ...sometimes when we feel like things are piling on, it's easy to see ourselves as a victim of just life of circumstance.”

• Nick on Letting Go: “[73:54] ...let it go. It would be easy for you to make this worse than it needs to be and let this affect you for a long time, and you can choose not to let that happen.”

• Amanda on Reframing: “[72:32] ...reframing all of this.”

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Key Takeaways

• Empathy is Crucial: Understanding others' perspectives can pave the way for healing and resolution.

• Communication Matters: Open and heartfelt conversations are essential in resolving conflicts and misunderstandings.

• Balance Memories: It's possible to cherish good memories while acknowledging and forgiving past mistakes.

• Seek Support: Leaning on trusted individuals and professionals can aid in processing complex emotions.

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Whether you're navigating relationship hurdles or grappling with difficult family revelations, Episode E855 of The Viall Files offers valuable insights and compassionate advice to help you find clarity and peace in your personal journey.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Taylor]

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[Beth]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

How's it going?

[Taylor]

Hi, my name is Taylor, I am 29 and I am calling in to see if I should try to save my 15 year friendship after my best friend blocked me.

[Nick]

Okay, why did they block you?

[Taylor]

Well, that's the tough part. I don't 100% know why, just because she didn't communicate anything to me. No text or anything. But I do have a strong assumption which I can get into.

[Nick]

Yeah, what's your strong assumption?

[Taylor]

I went on a trip a few weeks ago with a group of girls that I went to school with in college and I lived with them. It's important to note that I did introduce her to one of them and so over the years I would say that they did develop a friendship but obviously not as strong as you know, I would have with either of them. But they are friends. But she's not friends with the other girl that was on the trip. Obviously they've been in the same room and they've hung out through me before, but I wouldn't classify them as friends. But anyways, I go on this trip with my college friends and I come back and I find out that I'm blocked on everything. I tried to reach out to her over social media and I was removed from all of the platforms. And then I tried to text her and the text did not go through. So my only assumption is it's because she felt some type of way about me going on this trip with different set of friends and she was not there or invited.

[Nick]

So she want. Yeah, it was more about her feeling. Not invited, I would assume.

[Taylor]

Yes, she is a friend from high school and so that's just like, just to differentiate high school. And then this is a group that I met in college and we've done these trips before and it's never been an issue.

[Nick]

What else is going on in her life that you're aware of?

[Taylor]

That's another good point. She is kind of going through a hard time right now just because she's had some recent family health scares with her parents. And then she also recently got laid off from her job. So a tough time for her. And I want to be sympathetic to that as well. It's just, um, it's a hard time for me to understand the reasoning.

[Nick]

Okay. And so when you called in, you're like, you're wondering if it's worth like saving this relationship or reaching out, like, what do you think you should do? Like what do you want to do?

[Taylor]

That's definitely part of the reason why I'm reaching out is I. I'm having a hard time figuring out if I should reach out, if I should try and do that.

[Nick]

What's your argument for not reaching out?

[Taylor]

I feel that she simply just threw away this 15 year friendship. So why would I want to put in all this effort and time to reach out and fix it if she find, no, she doesn't want to talk to me and she's willing to just throw it out off of not being invited to a trip.

[Nick]

If you think of it that way, I guess I understand what you're saying. I see it more from what I'm hearing from you. Is your friend, again, based off the information you're telling me, is going through it. We all go through it at some times. Sometimes there are periods in our lives where we just, it feels like things are piling on, you know, and then sometimes when we feel like things are piling on, it's easy to see ourselves as a victim of just life of circumstance, et cetera, et cetera. We're also living in polarizing times. Things are tense. And so I see it as your friend as basically having a temper tantrum, you know, reaction to having hurt feelings. I don't see it as their throwing the friendship away. This is an attempt to get your attention, not necessarily to push you away, as I see it. I know it. I'm sure it doesn't feel that way, but, you know, I kind of see it that way now. That being said, I don't think it's both. Yeah, I don't think it's right that your friend did that. I think you have the right to be hurt that your friend handled her disappointment in the manner in which she did. You know, but it's. You know, sometimes when it comes to friendships, you know, we have to kind of ask ourselves, even when our feelings are hurt, am I in a better position to protect this relationship than the other person is in this moment? I don't know, you know, what your life is like or your. What your mental health is like these days or what your state of mind is like these days, or, you know, just, you know, how you feel like life is going for you, but, you know, you seem like you're pretty optimistic about things, you know. You know, and so maybe you're in a slightly better, you know, maybe you're not dealing with, you know, family members having health concerns or, you know, worrying about your. Your job and things like that and not agreeing with how she handled it. And I don't even know this person, you know, I don't know anything about her. But what you're describing, to me, it would be easy to understand that she has the ability, again, to feel sorry for herself, you know, and to see any situation as a victim. Right. And so you go on this trip with these friends. On some level, she probably always was a little, maybe intimidated or frustrated with this friend group. Maybe she has a hard time, harder time making friends than you do. You know, I don't know. I'm just providing ideas, and so I.

[Taylor]

Would agree with that.

[Nick]

Okay, so there you go. And so, yeah, and this is all kind of happening in a moment where she just felt like she felt left out, and this is how she's handling it. So if I were you. No, I wouldn't throw it away.

[Taylor]

The only thing is, I don't even know where to even begin and to start on contacting her. Obviously, I could try and figure it out as I have, like, family members and her boyfriend's information. But, like, I'm blocked on everything that she has. So it's a matter of me reaching out to somebody in her life or.

[Nick]

Do you have her address?

[Taylor]

Sending her? Yeah, I was gonna say I thought about sending her a letter as well. It just seems so intense and. And crazy. 15 years that I have to write a letter to contact her.

[Nick]

From your friend's point of view, her life probably feels intense and crazy. Like, I think sometimes when people act a certain way again, like, you know, you can choose to empathize with her or you could not. That's your choice. Right. I think now we. I think we live in a time where every. We're kind of told to first think of how things affect us. Your friends doing that. Right?

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And so if you choose to do the same thing. Yeah, You. If you both. If you dig your heels in the ground, and if you focus on being right, you will probably not reach out. Yes. It would be very easy for you to make an argument of why your friend is wrong, why your friend's overreacting, why your friend is not seeing your side, why your friend's being unfair to you. These are all true statements. You could easily focus on that, or you could just say, this is my friend for 15 years. She's struggling right now. I love her. And even if we're not as close as we once were, because obviously we've been friends for 15 years, almost kind of like a sister or a brother who. Like, sometimes you're just like, I don't even like you right now. But your family, and you want to be there for your family. You could choose to just empathize with her, put yourself in her situation and, you know, try to be there for her at whatever level she is able to allow you to do that. And again, you know, maybe you give it a week or two. What? She blocked you in recently?

[Taylor]

It was last week. Early last week.

[Nick]

I've been that long, you know?

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Beth]

Is.

[Taylor]

The trip was two weekends ago.

[Nick]

Okay, listen. I don't know. I mean, she may never forgive you. I don't know. And that's. You know, but, like, I think it's a little too early to. To go down that route. And even if your. If your friend decides to dig her heels into the ground and never let this go, and she truly never wants to be your friend, at least you will know that you did everything you could. Because right now, you're still like, it's pretty easy. Like, you know, this. The call started, and I'm like, all right, tell me what you think your friend's going through and you are pretty easily able to list off, like, you know, why her life, from her point of view seems a bit dark and dim. And then when we feel like the victims of the situation, it's easy for us to expect the people closest to us to step up.

[Taylor]

Totally. Yeah.

[Nick]

I.

[Taylor]

The only thing holding me back is if and when I reach out, knowing who she is, I do know that she's on the more stubborn side. And so I don't think that the conversation would go in a positive direction just because I don't see her side really of being upset.

[Nick]

You're not. That's not your job here.

[Taylor]

She doesn't see mine.

[Nick]

That's not. See, that's the thing. You're f. You're focused on being right. If you want to reach out to her to argue your pov, then I wouldn't reach out to her right now. If you want to reach out to her to say, hey, I noticed that you blocked me. I've been trying to get a hold of you. I just want you to know that, like, it seems like you're upset with me. I'm not entirely sure why, but like, either way, I want to. I, you know, when you're ready, I want to reach out and I love you. And if I did something that hurts your feelings, I'm sorry. You know, like, it's. That's what you should write, you know, you should not write a two page letter arguing your points of view. Like, you wouldn't. You shouldn't start it by saying, I know you're going through a hard time, but, yeah, true. You know, it shouldn't. You shouldn't get into guesses as to why she's mad at you. You should just say, it could be really short. It could be a card. I love you. I miss you. I'm here when you're ready to talk. I'll always be here when you're ready to talk. And I hope we can get through this because you mean a lot to me. That's all you really could have. That's. That's honestly all you should write. And I don't know, she may not reach out right away. She may not reach out for a month, you know, but whenever she figures her shit out, whenever her life feels a little less shitty, you know, whenever she picks up the, you know, the pieces, she's going to remember that letter of I love you, I'm sorry, I miss you. And it's going to make it her, you know, especially if she is stubborn if you want to get a stubborn person to be less stubborn, stop fighting with them. You know, stop trying to be right. Don't give them the ammunition to stick their heels in the ground.

[Taylor]

Totally. Yeah. And I don't want that either. I'm. I just feel like the. The conversation would come up if she. If and when she would reach out, she would try to explain to me where she was coming from.

[Nick]

Yeah. When she does, if it ever gets to the point where you get together, you hang out, and at some point, you will have the right to say, listen, I understand you're coming from. But, you know. You know, because the reality is, is, like, you're gonna have to. You're gonna have to find the words to at some point. Yes. Set a boundary or explain your side, which is, next time that your feelings are hurt, can you please talk to me? You are my closest friend, but, like, you're not my only friend. You know, that. That might sting a little bit, you know? Is there a reason why you didn't. Why, just out of curiosity, you. Why didn't you invite her? And, I mean, I don't really care the answer just. But there is, you know, you. She did, you didn't.

[Taylor]

I. I didn't invite her. And I think it's as simple as these are the girls that I went to school with and I lived with, and I just didn't think to invite her.

[Nick]

And what if she says to you. And what if she says to you, like, listen, like, we've been friends for 15 years. Like, I just, you know, I want to be included when you have fun, and I don't have a lot of girlfriends, and honestly, most of my friends I've met in my adult life have been through you, so I felt a little left out because, like, you know, you're all I got. What would you say to that?

[Taylor]

I don't really know. I just feel. I think I'd feel bad if she really did feel left out, and she doesn't have a whole lot of people in her life at this, as an adult. Yeah. I. I think I would feel bad. I just wouldn't want it to be the case for everything that I do moving forward, if that makes sense.

[Nick]

No, it does. Listen, you. Again, you have, you know, but it's just a matter of, like, you're describing a friend in need. So do you want to.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Be there for your friend or not? You know, like, it's entirely up to you.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I do. Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, it's good points.

[Taylor]

Absolutely.

[Nick]

That's. I Guess my two cents. Yeah, this is definitely. Do you, do you want, do you want to be a writer? Do you want to be happy? You know, like, yeah, you know, adult friendships.

[Taylor]

Once or twice on the show.

[Nick]

Yeah. The adult friendships are not just about, you know, having fun with the girls and partying all the time and just, you know, I think when we're young or in college, it's like we don't want to be in, you know, it's just like if, if we feel inconvenienced by other people's needs, then somehow, like they're not being our friend. And again, you could do this and get your friend. I don't, I'm not defending how she's handling this at all. Like, you know, she is wrong for how she's handling this, but, you know, she is handling this for a reason. Do you want to be there for your friend?

[Taylor]

That's the bottom line. And I think I was having a hard time seeing that before because when it first happened, all I felt was anger and confusion and sadness. And I think as time moves forward and it goes on, I'm starting to see the other side.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Taylor]

And how I should be reacting.

[Nick]

That's good. Yeah. I mean, she may never want to talk to you again. I doubt it, but it's possible. But if that's the case. Yeah. You will feel better having written that letter.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I think, I think that's the move. I think that's what I'll do.

[Nick]

And the important thing is when you write it and you read it, stop. Do not try to be right here. You are not arguing your case or your pov. You are being there for your friend in need. There is a time and a place, not now for you, expressing your frustrations and setting certain boundaries. But again, be careful before you set them. Ask yourself, like, you know, what is this relationship I have with this friend? You know, maybe this friend in your life of 15 years, she's. Maybe she's not the friend you enjoy partying with the most. Maybe that's the hard truth of the situation where she's like, you know, she's not your go to. Maybe she's not the company you enjoy the most because like, quite honestly, the friends you've met in college are more like minded as you and you have more in common and they're more fun to be around. But again, you can't say you can't value a friendship of 15 years and then act inconvenienced by that friend when they're not, you know, aligned with you because a friendship of 15 years is more than just having fun together.

[Taylor]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Nick]

All right. Was this helpful?

[Taylor]

Well, I appreciate. Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate the advice and I think moving forward, I know what I'm going to do, so. Okay, well, thank you so much.

[Nick]

I would love a follow up, whatever happens, but hopefully it will be good news. And just remember when you.

[Taylor]

I hope so too.

[Nick]

When you send it, forget about it. Be patient. Send it without expectation. You are just sending us almost as a. I haven't been there for you. You have your reasons. But like you're, you know, this is your attempt to be there for your friend because you have recognized this friend is in need and you have haven't really seen that or acknowledged it from her. Pov.

[Taylor]

Totally. Yeah. Okay, I see that now.

[Nick]

All right, well, take care. Keep us posted.

[Taylor]

All right. Thanks, Nick.

[Nick]

All right. All right. All the best.

[Taylor]

All right, I will. Bye.

[Nick]

Bye.

[Taylor]

Okay, bye.

[Nick]

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[Beth]

I'm Beth. I'm 24. And should I be concerned that my boyfriend still has his ex's engagement ring?

[Nick]

Okay, well, why does he have your ex's engagement ring? At least, what's his reason for it?

[Beth]

He hasn't found the right time to get rid of it, supposedly.

[Nick]

The right time. How long ago is this?

[Beth]

He was dating a girl for eight years, and they broke up in, like, 2020. I believe that we started dating three years ago, and he still has three.

[Nick]

That's a little much. Doesn't need the money.

[Beth]

Well, that's what I thought. I was like, wouldn't you sell it so that you can get money for a ring for me?

[Nick]

Are you trying to get engaged?

[Beth]

I would like to, yes.

[Nick]

Yeah. I mean, if you're thinking about getting engaged to this guy, it's kind of weird that he has an engagement ring from McKnax, and his reason, to be clear is just that he hasn't gotten around to it.

[Beth]

I've brought it up multiple times, and he keeps saying that he will get rid of it, but it's been over a year since I found it, and he still hasn't gotten rid of it.

[Nick]

How many times have you brought it up since?

[Beth]

A lot.

[Nick]

And what does he say?

[Beth]

And it's still the same thing that I will soon. Soon I will. And he just. It's still here.

[Nick]

I first got engaged a long time ago. I was 28. And then shortly after we broke up, I definitely, like. Even after I found out she cheated on me, it took me a while to, like, process it. You know, I didn't sell it right away. Like, three or four months. I hung onto it. I didn't really know why. Maybe there was, like, some false hope or whatever, delusion. But, like, eventually I did, and I definitely didn't. Like, I got. I took a loss for sure. Definitely didn't get my money back. Also, like, I remember I. Because I went. I got it from a smaller jeweler. And he was like, I can give you this price, which was less than what I paid for it. He's like, or I can give you a full credit so that if you get engaged in the future, you could put that money towards something else, which I would imagine, especially since you brought up you want to get engaged with this guy. That's the part that makes it extra weird. It's just like.

[Beth]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, when you say, like, are you hoping he gets engaged. Are you hoping he asks you or are you guys both as a couple talking about getting engaged or is this like a one sided, hopeful situation on your end and he has like, no idea.

[Beth]

We've definitely talked about it. We talk about it a lot. But it's gotten to the point where he like won't talk about it now because I'm asking for a timeline and he's like, he will stop talking about engagement altogether.

[Nick]

Okay, well, he's not ready to get engaged then. That's clear. The fact that he has a failed engagement, it doesn't help your cause. You're only 24, so as much as you're like, I know, maybe frustrated, maybe. Maybe you both shouldn't be getting engaged right now. That being said, you have, I mean, listen, you have every right to like be upset and frustrated about this engagement ring still being in his house. And you have every right to say, do it now.

[Beth]

Yeah, I have.

[Nick]

What does he do? He doesn't do it.

[Beth]

He'll like say, stop snooping. I'm like, just get rid of it. And I wouldn't find it.

[Nick]

So he's hiding it?

[Beth]

Yes.

[Nick]

What do you mean snooping?

[Beth]

So I found the way I found it. I like, he told me about it when we first started dating. By the way, he never gave this ring to his ex girlfriend. She didn't even know he had it.

[Nick]

So they never even got engaged?

[Beth]

No, they never got engaged.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Beth]

But I found it when we first moved in to our house like two years ago. And at the time I thought it was for me and I was like, oh, God, no, not yet. Like, we just started moving in together. So I brought it up to him and he was like, yeah, that's actually from my previous relationship. And I was like, okay, cool, can you get rid of it? Because it's like, why do you still hold on to it? It's been years and he said he would soon, and then it's still two years later, still here.

[Nick]

Have you suggested to him directly or. Not even suggested, but stated. It's just like, I have no other explanation as to why you're hanging onto this other than you still have feelings or you haven't let go of that relationship.

[Beth]

I've said that.

[Nick]

And what's his response?

[Beth]

It's not true. He just hasn't found the right time to get rid of it.

[Nick]

Well, again, it's been three years, so, like, he hasn't made the time. He. It's not right. What? What, does he play video games?

[Beth]

No.

[Nick]

What is he what, what is, what are his hobbies? What, like, does he watch tv? Like, what are things that he does when he's just around outside work, around.

[Beth]

The house or hunting?

[Nick]

No, he hunts. Okay, so. But he does have time to have fun, correct? Yeah.

[Beth]

Yes, a lot.

[Nick]

He's not like working 90 hours a week? No. Okay, well then, so then he hasn't made the time. Have you pointed it out to him?

[Beth]

I don't know if it's like, if that's just his excuse though, because I feel like he just doesn't want. Either he doesn't want to get rid of it or he doesn't want me to know that he gets rid of it because he has the mentality that if I know that he gets rid of it, I think that I'm going.

[Taylor]

To get a ring.

[Beth]

If that makes sense.

[Nick]

No, it doesn't make sense. But I understand that you think when I say it doesn't make sense. I get what you're. Let me be clear. I get what you're saying. It's a stupid, it's an excuse. But I will say it might be, it might be true. You know how old your boyfriend?

[Beth]

27.

[Nick]

Okay, so. Well, it sounds like he's incredibly stubborn.

[Beth]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

What you should say is, hey, listen, I know I've brought up getting engaged to you over and over and over and I probably pestered you about it. I don't want us to get engaged until we are ready. And clearly we are not ready because it doesn't seem like you're ready. So I want you to know that I've kind of mentally taken that off the table. I definitely still want to get engaged to you. I still want us to have a future together. But we are not ready. Because you have to take that off. Right. Because I hope you believe that. Because you do not want to get engaged because you wore him down. You do not want him to propose to you out of resentment. You don't want. You do not want him to get on one knee to shut you up.

[Beth]

Yeah, I agree.

[Nick]

Engagements can last a very long time. Like that's not an engagement. Like if people who engaged and have like three years engagements, minus the fact that maybe they're saving for a really extravagant wedding and yada, yada, yada. But most people who have like three year engagements, it's because they got engaged before, they really should have. And somewhere, some, most. I think in most of those cases they got engaged because someone in the relationship decided they wanted to get engaged because either their friends were getting Engaged. Or they said, well, we should be engaged now because we've been dating for three years. And so they just did it to shut them up, knowing that they could always get out of an engagement. I'm hoping that's not what you want for yourself.

[Beth]

It's just hard because he keeps giving me a timeline, but it always changes. So we'll talk about it. He'll be like, oh yeah, we can get married next year. And then if we talk about it again, it's like, oh, three years.

[Nick]

Yeah, you should be like, listen, like that's. But again, you've acknowledged that you've kind of pestered him about this and you've kind of brought him up. So, like, again, his timeline's changing because, like, he is just trying to shut you up essentially. But you also have to empathize with him. This is a man who like, at a young age saved what I'm sure at the time felt like a lot of money. And then that didn't work out. And when that didn't work out, he probably really struggled with like thinking, I can't believe this happened to me. And that traumatized him on some level. It affected him. You know, I still think it's inappropriate he's hanging out in this ring. But in terms of getting engaged, you know, like, I haven't heard anything for any pushback from you about, like, why all I've heard from you is you're ready to get engaged because you've been dating for three years and that's not a reason to get engaged.

[Beth]

I want family and all of that. And I've always wanted to have a young just like everyone else. Whenever you're younger, you think, at 26, all right, I'm going to have like three kids and all that. So that's what I imagine for myself.

[Nick]

I hear you. We all been there. But that's not a reason to get married or have kids with someone because you know everyone else is or youth or because 19 year old you decided that you were going to have a family of, you know, and three kids at 25, you being 19 wasn't that long ago. Time flies, you know what I'm saying? And now you are. You're judging yourself and you know it's for all the wrong reasons. Like, you're not making this decision together as a couple. You have to give your boyfriend permission to like, you have to create a safe space for him to be able to talk to you about these feelings. Right now, I'm guessing it's more like, why do you have this ring. What do you have feelings for her? Blah blah, blah, blah blah. And it's just like you're not creating a safe space for him to. It's supposed to been like that must have been really hard. How did that affect you? I doubt you. He feels comfortable talking about how hard it was to break with his ex girlfriend. And because he doesn't want to hurt your feelings or he doesn't know what, he's afraid you're going to make it about you.

[Beth]

That's a good point.

[Nick]

So yeah, I mean like listen, you have every right to be frustrated and upset. It's inappropriate that he has this ring. But there is a reason. And I think if you want to think big picture about what you really want, I think maybe you need to reset expectations with your boyfriend about your guys future. Take engagement off the table.

[Beth]

I was gonna say, is it acceptable for me to have a timeline? Like he thinks that that's not normal.

[Nick]

Like girls, I think they're useless. I think they're useless. You can set goals, right? Goals are fine. You can be intentional about your dating life and love life. You can always be intentional about working towards something. But you're not working towards anything with your boyfriend. You just you on your own set a timeline for yourself. And then you are expecting him to meet your deadline that you set because you, because 19 year old you had a plan. And so from that perspective, yeah, it sounds a little nuts for him. This is not something you guys are doing together. You're not, you're not advancing your relationship because you continue to connect and bond and grow your relationship. It's just more like I'm ready to get engaged so when are you going to ask me? And you've already asked someone else so like why can't you ask me? You know, and it's just like that is not, that does not make a guy want to propose. It makes him resent you. Okay.

[Beth]

Yeah, that's pretty much what he says too.

[Nick]

And just to be clear, because I know you're nodding your head like I'm accurately kind of describing your messaging to him.

[Beth]

Yeah, yeah. For the most part it's gotten to that point. Like we always used to have good conversations about it. Like he wants the same things that I do and we were around this like what age we want to have kids and all of that.

[Nick]

And I think it's safe to say he's not hanging onto this ring because he thinks he's going to get back together with her. I think you can let that go. I still think it's inappropriate that he has.

[Beth]

No, she take it on.

[Nick]

Yeah, but it did hurt him. It did affect him. And the fact that he can't go to you and talk about that is a problem in your relationship.

[Beth]

How do you suggest we talk about something like that?

[Nick]

Like, I think you got to go back to the place where you used to have conversations. And, yeah, you start by saying, listen, you acknowledge the role you've been playing in this disconnect. You say, you know, you say, hey, listen, I'm. I've been thinking a lot about, like, our future and our relationship, and I just want to apologize. I've been coming at this from, like, really just thinking about my needs and what I want and that I don't want to get engaged to you because I've worn you down or I've pressured you. Like, yes, I am excited to start a family. I'm excited to get engaged someday. But, like, I want to take a step back because I don't think we're ready. And I, you know, listen, like, it bothers me that this ring exists, but I realize that, like, maybe that situation affected you. And if you ever want to talk about it, like, you know, and also, don't make a promise you can't keep. If you don't have the emotional bandwidth to talk about it without it triggering you and making it about you, then don't pretend that you do.

[Beth]

We've had that conversation before. Like, when I first found it, it was like, it was a normal conversation. Okay, I understand why you still have it, but, like, do you plan on getting rid of it? He goes, yes, I'll get rid of it soon.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Beth]

Two years later, he still has it.

[Nick]

And again, you. You do have that, right? And again, you. Maybe your instincts are right. Maybe he's, you know, it's become so toxic in a way that, like, it's not about. It's. It's not about not selling the ring. It's. It's about, like, him being defiant because you're, you know, you're pressuring him. You're not trying to make a mutual decision. You're trying to get your way. And that's how it feels to him.

[Beth]

Yeah, that's what he says, too.

[Nick]

Do you. Do you see his point of view?

[Beth]

I do, for the most part, somewhat. I don't know, Kind of.

[Nick]

I think you're. I think. Listen, I think you're, like, your intentions are good, so to speak, but your execution is poor. You know, I think I just get so caught up. But but try to empathize more.

[Beth]

Okay, I can do that.

[Nick]

And also just remind yourself you do not want a proposal under these circumstances. That is that you. You're not getting what you want. You. You're not. I hope you're not getting engaged so you can, like, show a ring to your friends.

[Beth]

No, I'm not.

[Nick]

You know, I mean, it doesn't help.

[Beth]

That everyone around us is married, engaged, kids.

[Nick]

But to say, hey, listen, I don't care about anyone else, say that to him. He will feel much better. When you say, I've realized I've let other people's. I still want to work towards something. I still want us to work on connecting and growing and move towards a relationship. I would like us to be more intentional about an engagement. But I've realized I've been making our engagement about what I want. And I'm sorry, it still bothers me this ring exists. But, like, I don't want to pressure you. But, like, I also, more importantly want us to, like, focus on what's best for us and make a decision together. But I do. But that does. That does require him to also work with you. It's one of those things, like, most guys don't want to go ring shopping with their potential fiance and have her pink out a ring. Most guys don't want to, like, plan the engagement with their fiance. They want to surprise you, you know, but at the same time, like, Natalie set me up for success. She. She described the type of ring she wanted. She told her friends about it. So, like, I didn't. It's like, I didn't go buy the. I didn't go pick out the ring, but I. I knew enough with enough lead time that. So when I decided to do it, like, I could do it where it wasn't. She knew. She didn't know about it. She didn't know it was coming. Sure. She had a pretty good idea of a general timeline, for sure. I still felt like I was surprising her. We were, but we were, you know, we were definitely on the same page. I knew when we were ready because we talked about it. I think she knew it was going to happen the next, you know, six months type of thing. But right now, he is agree. He is setting these false timelines again because he's trying to appease you. And then when that timeline comes up, he's like, wait, I'm not. You know, it's just big because again, it's not about you two. It's about you trying to get your way and him trying to make you happy? You had a grimace on your face. What are you thinking? What are you feeling?

[Beth]

I don't know. Like, we just, we had a conversation the other day about it, and he goes, even if I wanted to say propose to you next week, and you bringing it up makes me not want to do it. I'm like, I, yeah, I just need something. I need you to tell me, give me a little bit of when it could happen. I'm not telling you to tell me the exact day and months, but, like, is it this year? Well, now that the year is almost over, but like, is it next year?

[Nick]

Why? Why, Why I want to. I mean, why do you, you gotta let go of that control. Like, it's, again, it's just like, I don't think men dream about their wedding like women do for the most part, you know, but like, I think men still want to feel like they made the decision because they wanted to and they want to. You know, I don't know how romantic your boyfriend is or I don't know what type of engagement he has planned, but I, I, I imagine he wants to do. He was forced to do it. Do you know the circumstances in which him and his, you know, I know he said you said he got cheated on, but why did he buy that ring in the first place? Like, were they talking about engagement?

[Beth]

So he actually told me he bought it for the wrong reasons, that he thought it was going to help his relationship.

[Nick]

Yeah. So, you know, he's got, again, he's got some trauma and he's going to be extra cautious now. And, and you empathizing with that and saying, hey, I understand why you're, you know, because he does not feel like you're empathizing and understanding him. And yeah, that is causing him to be a little resistant and a little rebellious.

[Beth]

Yeah, I agree.

[Nick]

And you demanding some kind of time, like, you two aren't, from what I'm hearing, you two aren't ready to get engaged in a week or in six months. Now, that might change, but the way you're approaching it now, so you've made it about an engagement. You haven't made it about you two being ready to get engaged. And so again, you need to take a step back. You need to reset the expectations between the two of you. And then you kind of need to let, let it go. And you need to focus on your relationship. You need to focus on being happy with him and connecting. And when you do that, you shouldn't be doing it so that you can get engaged. If your Whole goal is just to get him to get engaged. Like that's, you know, again, I'm a. Engagement doesn't mean much. I'm living proof of that. You know, it's like you can get engaged and it would not work out. So. And he knows that he has a, you know, he hasn't been engaged, but he's gone through the motions. And so your boyfriend having gone through this is very sensitive to talk and words. And so again, you focusing on you two connecting and being together and supporting each other and empathizing with each other and understanding each other not so that you can get what you want or get your way, but just because you want to be an empathetic supporting partner, that you gotta, you just gotta change your goals right now and put the engagement in the back of your mind. And I promise you, if you focus on being close with your boyfriend, you have a much better chance of getting what you want, especially getting what you want in the way in which you want it, which is you want your boyfriend to propose to you because he's in love with you and he wants to spend the rest of your life with you and not for any other reason.

[Beth]

He definitely does get frustrated with me for. So bring it up all the time.

[Nick]

I bet if you focus on being supportive and empathetic and a cheerleader for him, and again, you have the right to expect the same from him. You know, it shouldn't be one sided. But if you make your boyfriend feel supported and love, I mean, I think that's the biggest mistake, honestly. I think women make and, you know, like thing every sitcom that we grew up on, Dumb Husband, Smart Wife. And we all laugh at jokes because the wife makes fun of the dumb husband and nitpicks and whatever. And yeah, I guess on some level it's fun, you know, whatever. We all kind of laugh at it. And even sometimes I think men like to be teased, you know, but men don't respond, respond to being nagged or belittled or put down or told they're stupid or you know, have their, you know, rolling your eyes at them and things like that. You know, men respond to feeling supported and loved just like you do, you know, and the more you support him and make him feel loved and the more you acknowledge his feelings, the more he'll want to do the same for you. And if he doesn't after that, then maybe you realize that he's not your guy or something. But like it's, you know, you keep nodding your head and it sounds like you're recognizing there's things you could do for him that you're not doing.

[Beth]

I definitely need to be a little more empathetic about the whole situation he went through, which I was at first. Now it's just like, yeah, you were.

[Nick]

Like, yeah, I'm sorry that happened to you. All right? Now I need you to love me. I guarantee you that's how it feels to him today.

[Beth]

You're probably right.

[Nick]

Take it off the table. We are not ready to get engaged. I'm sorry. I've made it about me getting my way. Like I've said before, like I just said, you know, I. And I promise you it'll go a long way.

[Beth]

What if I have to wait eight years for him to finally stop?

[Nick]

Well, again, I don't know. You're a long way away from that. You know what I'm saying? Why don't you just focus on doing this and then evaluate where you guys are in here? And if you truly focus on being intentional with your relationship, connecting with your boyfriend, empathizing with each other, not pressuring each other. And again, you have the right to expect as much as you're willing to give. And then all of a sudden, a year goes by, and you go, well, you know, I haven't even thought about an engagement. I haven't brought it up. A year goes by, and you're like, I feel really closer than ever. But, you know, you guys have never talked about engagement. And then you bring it up and say, you know, I'm really excited about our future. And he's just like, yeah, I'm still like, you know, I don't know. I don't see a future with you. Then, yeah, you have a right to be frustrated. But, like, focus on the relationship, set the engagement off the table, and then check in from time to time. But, like, you're doing yourself no good. But by asking, well, what do I do in eight years? You haven't even been an adult for eight years. That's what I would do.

[Beth]

Okay, I think I can do that.

[Nick]

Do we feel good about our plan?

[Beth]

Not talk about it and show them love? I think I got it.

[Nick]

Yeah. But I think you should acknowledge what's been going on with them. Sit them down and say, hey, it's almost like, I'm sorry for doing this, and I really don't want to do this, and I understand why I've made you feel the way you have. Yes, again, I am excited a future with you, but, like, let's table us getting engaged for I don't Think we're ready. And I think I played a role in that. And I'm sorry, but I want us to be closer. I want us to understand each other. I want us to be able to come to each other when we're, you know, feeling anxious or upset, even if it's about something that might, you know, be sensitive, because I want us to be our. Each other's best friends. You know, you can't say, oh, I want my partner to be my best friend, and then make it difficult for them to bring up sensitive topics, you know, because what do we do with our, you know, our best friends, the ones we go to. To talk about, you know, our insecurities and our feelings? Sometimes we're with people who, like, we don't want, you know, who don't feel. Make us feel comfortable. Because, like, sometimes what he might be insecure about is, like, trauma from his past girlfriend, you know, and we don't want to. It's like, oh, well, I can't bring up, you know, my trauma from my ex girlfriend because she's going to be like, well, do you still have feelings for her? What the fuck? And it's like, oh, I thought, you know, you're my best friend. All right, all right, all right. Well, keep us posted because we are excited to hear for. Hear an update.

[Beth]

I will appreciate all the advice, and I will definitely make it a safe space for him to talk to me about everything.

[Nick]

All right. As far as this ring goes, let it go for a while. Let it go. What you really want to happen is to do what we've talked about, and then one day you found out he sold it, didn't tell you about it. I think he really just wants you to back off. I think that's pretty clear. I think he wants you to leave him alone about this topic and let him make the decision for himself. And he wants to be. He wants to do it when he's ready. He doesn't want to sell it for you. He doesn't want to buy an engagement just because you want it. You know, he wants to sell his engagement when he's ready. Granted, he definitely should be ready. You have the right to be upset about that. And he wants to get an engagement for you because you two are ready to do it together.

[Beth]

Agreed.

[Nick]

All right, good luck. Keep us posted.

[Beth]

I will. Thank you.

[Nick]

All right, have a great day.

[Beth]

You too.

[Nick]

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[Amanda]

How are you?

[Nick]

Good. What's your name?

[Amanda]

My name is Amanda. I'm 30 years old.

[Nick]

How can I help, Amanda?

[Amanda]

I just found out that my deceased father had an affair. I'm not quite sure how to move forward either.

[Nick]

Okay. How long ago did your father pass?

[Amanda]

It was a couple of months ago, maybe two or three now. Thank you.

[Nick]

Was it unexpected?

[Amanda]

It was very much so. It was an accident, so it was a shock to all of our family. We did not have much time to process before he actually had passed.

[Nick]

And then how did you find out about the affair?

[Amanda]

So we had put together a memorial page and I was the admin of the page, but basically just a place for people to leave stories, photos, things like that. And this was more recently. So we had maybe like two months to really process his passing and then had gotten this message through the site that was from this woman that he had allegedly had this affair with. And it was a pretty horrific email to read for anyone, I think, but especially being his daughter.

[Nick]

So this person, what, sent an email.

[Amanda]

They had done a posting on the site. So they had basically said, I just found out about his passing. I really wanted to come on here and share my piece after all of the quote, unquote, my dad is so amazing messages.

[Nick]

So, yeah, you guys created this kind of website for people to express their love for your. Your, your father. You shared this message with us. Do you mind if I just. I haven't read it. Do you mind if I.

[Amanda]

No, feel free.

[Nick]

So this person wrote a message and said hi, I just heard about Blank's passing and I'm conflicted but it's about time I had my peace. Especially after all the Blank was amazing. Blank was not an amazing as people thought. Let's just tell the truth about him. When I was a 19 year old teenager and his summer nanny and he was 39 years old, he took advantage of me. We had an affair for seven years. He strung me along, lied to me and had basically a double life for seven years until I gave him an ultimatum and he told me I don't want to divorce Blank because then I wouldn't see my kids every day and I already had an embarrassing divorce and I don't want a second divorce. So I left. She writes, Last time I saw Blank was when he stopped by my parents house after my dad died in 2005 and he wanted to possibly restart the affair. I was married at this point and had kids and I was old enough to know that we don't cheat on your spouse. Of course I see him in town when we are in town which I would get an acknowledgement head bob. But mostly I would see him while he stared at me and my family and I'd pretend I didn't see him. I should have told him what he did to me was disgusting but I never did. I wish I had. Yeah he sure did like quote unquote bike riding. He would tell Blank he was going for a bike ride and bike ride up the street to my parents house and see me for hours. Blank found out when she walked in the house. Had she walked in five minutes before he would have walked into a different scene. She never did notice my bra hanging on the computer. That incident didn't stop Blank and I and we were together for years. He just made sure that the office doors were locked and when I came into the office during the day I can tell you how many times I got pushed into the office closet because Glank and the kids stopped in. It's gross. He did that. She blamed me and who knows who told her. But a 19 year old teenager and he was a 39 year old man. She should have blamed Blank and not me. Why she stayed married to a man who hadn't had an affair for seven years on. I mean is there more? I mean is it more the same after that? Is there more details?

[Amanda]

It is more the same. The last line I found particularly difficult to read. Essentially blaming karma.

[Nick]

It was a Sudden, tragic death and you have to wonder if karma had a hand. Well, this is. Yeah, I'm very sorry you had to, to be clear, because I didn't read the rest. She didn't accuse your father of anything other than taking advantage of her because she was 19.

[Amanda]

That's my understanding, yes. From what I know, it sounds like it was a consensual gotcha, but she.

[Nick]

Did point out that this went on for how many years?

[Amanda]

Seven.

[Nick]

What was her excuse when she was 24?

[Amanda]

It's a good question. I've had similar thoughts.

[Nick]

Listen, I mean, let's not get into the weeds in terms of who was right and who was wrong. Clearly, she's hurt, she's upset. There's a strong chance that she is ashamed of what happened with your father. There is no doubt that your father, you know, was in a position of power at that time. And I'm sure, you know, she feels a certain way about that. But there is also no doubt that it's much easier to blame your dad for whatever shame she feels about the situation. I don't know. Like, I think a lot of 19 year olds. No, it's not okay to cheat. Yeah, like, you know, I know I.

[Amanda]

I knew that when I was 19. I know that now. You know?

[Nick]

Yeah. I mean, everyone matures differently, I guess. How can I help you is my question.

[Amanda]

I guess trying to help me understand how to move forward. I think I have, I guess, a couple different minds about this. I have a lot of anger towards this woman, and I don't know if that is misplaced almost, so I don't have to disrupt the view that I had of my dad. I, of course, had anger towards him when I found out as well. But I can't have those conversations with him. I can't get to the bottom of what, you know, may have been his side of this affair.

[Nick]

Have you talked to your mom about.

[Amanda]

But because I have all of. I have.

[Nick]

And what's her. What's her perspective?

[Amanda]

She's pissed. She validated a lot of the things that were included in the note. She remembered the time of walking in, I think in her understanding of things after she had caught them that one time, she thought things were over. So I think this came as a really big shock to her, which, of course is as devastating for someone who just lost their best friend and partner. Now you're finding out that they had had an extensive affair for much of the relationship.

[Nick]

Did you. I mean, what was your perception of your father before he passed?

[Amanda]

It was about as Good. As a father daughter relationship could be. I know you just had a daughter yourself. I think everything that you wish for, that relationship, the humor, the bond, the support, the connection, like, I had the perfect view of my dad.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Amanda]

So definitely.

[Nick]

But specifically as a father, Correct?

[Amanda]

Specifically as a father. Yeah.

[Nick]

How old are you again?

[Amanda]

30.

[Nick]

Okay. While you believed, I'm assuming, still believe he was a great father, did you think he was a perfect person?

[Amanda]

Maybe naively. I think I've definitely been challenged in my understanding of how nuanced people can be and believing that they can exist both perfect in one role and maybe not so perfect in another. So I guess, maybe, maybe naively, I did think that he was, for what I needed him to be. Perfect.

[Nick]

Yeah. And that's a tough lesson. You know, I think it's also shocking when we were to kind of realize that our. That our parents are human, you know?

[Amanda]

Yeah.

[Nick]

What mistakes have you made in your life?

[Amanda]

A lot.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, without even sharing, are there some that you're reluctant to share?

[Amanda]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Amanda]

Yeah.

[Nick]

All right. So there you go.

[Amanda]

And I think that's what I've struggled with too, almost is that the idea of this coming out now is difficult because it sort of sent us down a rabbit hole of digging up all this dirty laundry that I personally, I don't feel like I needed to know.

[Nick]

Was this message removed quickly? Like, how public was this and for how long?

[Amanda]

I was able to keep it? Not very public. So it was posted. It was actually my parents. Neighbor who had reached out to me to let me know that it was on the page. They had seen it posted. So I went in and removed it, and I was able to see the visitor log, and I could tell who had seen it and who hadn't. And it was just myself, this neighbor, and the woman who posted it.

[Nick]

Okay. So that's a blessing. We're good there. Yeah. And good of, like, being gossip and the added shame of people finding out what you've already had to prophesy about your father. We don't have to worry about that. This might, obviously, obviously easier said than done from my point of view. But I don't know if there's anything for you to do other than maintain the cherished memories you have of your father. Because he was a great father. You know, he was a great father to you, and he never was a perfect person. There's no doubt that learning this about your father is hard to hear. No. But remember that there are things and mistakes that you've made that you don't feel comfortable sharing with other people that if shared in the wrong context, someone might paint you as a terrible person. I'm sure you've done things that were self centered and selfish and you prioritize your needs above others and at the consequence of maybe even her hurting people. Maybe it wasn't your intent and it's probably, you know, again, we're not arguing whether your father was inappropriate. He cheated on his wife, he had kids, you know, it wasn't appropriate for him to put himself in a position of power with this 19 year old. I think you gotta forgive her too. What's it gonna do? Yeah, she has the right to feel the way she feels and your dad obviously hurt her and by hurting her it might just maybe he broke her heart. Maybe. Yeah. And like, listen, your dad did play a role, your dad, you know, as a 39 year old man who was going through some kind of midlife, whatever the fuck. Right. And did this thing with her. She does feel a sense of guilt and shame about it and she has a right to blame your father. She may not be doing enough to hold herself accountable, but if this is something that is really hurting her, which clearly it is, you know, it's more difficult for us to acknowledge the role we played and the pain that we caused ourself. But that's her journey. It's just like, all I'm saying is like you have every right to be upset with her and angry at her and things like that, but like it doesn't stop you from at least trying to empathize with why she feels the way she does. You know, not to justify it, but again, I think people really struggle differentiating the difference between the reason why someone does something without trying to justify why they do it. There's a reason we do all these things and it's important to understand the reasons and we can understand people's reasons without justifying their actions.

[Amanda]

I think that's where I've really struggled is I've struggled to rationalize why someone would hold onto these feelings for 30 years and then come out with it once he's not able to defend himself and doing it to. In my mind, I looked at it like she was trying to punish the people reading it and she was trying to wipe away the good memories and say, you guys don't know who this man was. I know him better than all of you and sort of punish the people.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, she was being selfish without question, but her selfishness came from a place of pain and hurt. It's Hard. And listen, obviously that's not probably easy for you to acknowledge because you know, the person who did that was your dad and we all hurt people. Doesn't make it okay, but you know, it doesn't stop your dad from being human and it doesn't stop him from being a decent man overall. And he can still be every bit of the good father that he was. Definitely wasn't a great husband. That's, that's, you know. Yeah, but you know, and that's, that's.

[Amanda]

A hard one to rationalize, I think as well.

[Nick]

How is your mom handling this? I mean, I'm curious about that. Like how does your mom still see him as a husband?

[Amanda]

I have asked her that question. She said she wasn't able to answer it. I think there were a lot of things in their relationship that I wasn't aware of. Obviously as a kid, I don't think you should be aware of all of the ins and outs of your parents relationship. But she called him a failed man at some times of their relationship and she didn't really give much more context as to what that means. I can sort of infer there were probably things that they were dealing with behind the scenes. But what I knew of their relationship as an adult the last 10, 15 years of my life, he was an incredible partner. He was there for her through really, really difficult times with her health.

[Nick]

Is your mom able to acknowledge that she is?

[Amanda]

I just think this complicates things. It's to find out that something that you thought was sort of a one time mistake was actually seven years. It's a substantial part of their marriage. Her perspective. I think she sort of put her head down, maybe like put blinders on a little bit and she prioritized the nuclear family and keeping us together and keeping us moving forward. I think she maybe ignored some of the things that she might have sensed were going on and this really brought them to light and I think brought them to the rest of her family's attention, which I'm sure is embarrassing for her and extremely hurtful.

[Nick]

Yeah, for sure. Are you married? What's your relationship status?

[Amanda]

I am, I'm married and I have a son.

[Nick]

What's your relationship like with your husband?

[Amanda]

It's great. We have a really, really strong connection. He has been really supportive through all of this. I think he's one of the only people that I've had to talk to about it. We. Because it didn't get out publicly, this new information, I haven't really shared it with anyone beyond my mom and my husband. I have a therapist as well that I'm working with.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't if I were you.

[Amanda]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick]

Especially if you have a therapist and you can talk to your mom or here if you need. Yeah. It's none of anyone else's business. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's a tough situation, but our parents are never perfect. Relationships and marriages are incredibly hard. Again, not justifying what your dad did, but there's just no point in ruining your memory of your father, specifically the type of father he was to you. There's just no point in ruining that because what happened doesn't make your memory of him as a father any bit untrue. Your mom obviously, is slightly a different story, but it sounds like which is the case and I think a lot of marriages, your dad had some really good moments of being a great partner and he had some really bad moments. Not the first person. Again, I'm not trying to justify it, but I don't know. I guess I think we. Again, we live in a time where we're just so comfortable with demonizing people, especially when we feel wronged by them. You know, if we are hurt by someone, they're a monster, they're a narcissist or sociopath or all these things. And it's like, I don't know, maybe they're just human. Maybe they have their own bullshit and their trauma. It's also easier to blame others than look. Than look in the mirror. So again, I think there's a little bit of that. What's going on with her?

[Amanda]

Do you think there would be any benefit in trying to get in touch with this woman?

[Nick]

No.

[Amanda]

No.

[Nick]

What's the reason?

[Amanda]

I guess more so to try to understand. I think what's so difficult is not knowing that I'll never really know what happened or what to what extent her posting was true. Obviously, speaking with her won't I'll get more of the same side of the story. But I have found I've had a difficult time letting go. And I feel like I want to, I guess, understand her intentions with sharing that post.

[Nick]

I would be willing to bet she fully understand her intentions. I bet the passing of your father tragically affected her, triggered her, probably brought up a lot of feelings. Again, she clearly feels it affected her. Your dad hurt her. I mean, that's something we have to acknowledge. And she's writing this as clearly like an emotional reaction. So the way it reads is like your dad's a monster. And do you deep down think that he is.

[Amanda]

No.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean it's a lot more believable to believe that your 39 year old dad at the time when he was 39. But it wouldn't be again. It doesn't make it okay what your dad did. But you know, she might have pursued him a little bit and then he pursued her and maybe there were different times. I'd be willing to bet there were times where he was like, no. And then she got felt rejected and pursued him and then vice versa and she's conveniently forgetting all those times and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Again, your dad absolutely abused his position of power. But at the same time, like she, she also was an adult and she has the right to feel hurt and she has the right to feel like your dad didn't, he wasn't there for. And so. Yeah, like what you talking to her is just gonna, you're not gonna want to hear details. You know, I guess what I'm saying is I think you can accurately probably fill in most the gaps of what this was. Did it say how it ended? I forget.

[Amanda]

Did it say she had said that she gave him an ultimatum and he.

[Nick]

Said okay, no, there you go. So the, the relationship ended with him rejecting her. So didn't. Wouldn't shock me if she felt like she was in love with this man, which would make a lot of sense. That is again something your dad was responsible for being in this position of power. She was younger. Your dad might have been her first love. I mean today then emotional, definitely her up. He took advantage of her for sure. He was absolutely wrong for doing that. You know, I don't think that makes him a monster. I think that makes him self centered and, you know, weak. Your dad was weak in that moment. All our parents have been weak before. I've been a weak person before. You know, you've been a weak person before. Part of growing up and being an adult is kind of recognizing that our parents aren't God. Our parents aren't these perfect deities incapable of making mistakes. They are all, they're just flawed human beings that have their own unresolved trauma that they've carried into adulthood, you know, now, I mean, only now, recently have we even understood what, you know, childhood trauma can do and things like that and, and kind of pass down family trauma or whatever it is and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, you know, again, not making an excuse for your father, but like it just, just to humanize your father, you know, and so her reaching out. Yeah, like I just don't think anything can be accomplished. You're not her friend. You're not trying to have this person in your life. You're not. You don't. You don't. She can go get a therapist whenever she wants. She got this out. Thank God you caught it before it really got out. She needed to do this. And so, yeah, the why she did it, your father's passing like it did you, triggered her and it affected her. And this is how she finally got her last bit of anger out. It wouldn't shock me if years go by. She regrets writing that letter. You'll never know.

[Amanda]

I have noticed I made his page private. More so because I didn't want to get any more postings. But I have noticed she has been coming back to the page every other day or so or trying to access the page every other day.

[Nick]

How can you notice that? Just out of curiosity.

[Amanda]

I have access to the, like the back end because I'm the admin on the page.

[Nick]

Gotcha.

[Amanda]

So anytime people try to access, I get notified.

[Nick]

Yeah. For now, I'd just leave it alone.

[Amanda]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I don't know if any much good would come of you reaching out to ask her to stop.

[Amanda]

Do you think removing the page altogether might be.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, I may be maybe just removing it. What good is it up at this point?

[Amanda]

It's not really. It has previous messages, but currently I'm the only person who's able to see them.

[Nick]

And those messages where a lot of people said a lot of nice things are all true too. I mean, everyone has a different truth about people. If I were to die tomorrow, I'm sure some people would just think I'm a absolute asshole. I don't know. Like, in my heart I know I'm not, you know, but yeah, people have a right to feel about me however they want. It's not really none of my business, you know, Again, it's tough because obviously this is a hard truth to find out about your dad, but I think you got to separate the man and the crime, so to speak. I think the big takeaway is he was every bit the amazing father to you that you remember, because he was.

[Amanda]

The only part I think it gets a little murky too, is he was that amazing father. But he did in doing what he was doing and engaging in the affair, I think he was putting at risk his ability to be around me for my upbringing and his. His relationship with me. That's the only part that I think is a little bit difficult with separating.

[Nick]

I mean, there are going to be moments in your life that you're, you know, being a parent does. Like, I. My whole life is my daughter, for sure, and my family. But, like, you know, at some point, I' to have to do things for me, too, you know, doesn't mean I'm going to be cheating on my wife. But I'm just saying, like, I. I think that mental exercise you're doing right now is kind of useless.

[Amanda]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, there's going to be a point in your life where you're going to. You might feel a little guilt for choosing yourself over your child. And maybe you might reflect and think, I shouldn't have done that. You know, like, I don't know. It's easy to judge. It's. I think. But life is hard and complicated and it didn't happen. There's that too, you know, and at the end of the day, your dad did choose his family. He didn't choose her. There are a lot of people who don't choose their families. If you're watching Orange County, Jen, you know, left her, broke up her family and got engaged to a criminal.

[Amanda]

Could be worse.

[Nick]

Could be worse. It could be worse. But I, you know, I'm really sorry you have to deal with this. It sucks. But I just, I. Yeah, I think you can choose not to see your dad much differently than you saw him before. I think you're just as a new parent, as a married person who's embarking in the beginning stages of her life. I think it's a reminder. Maybe, maybe this is a blessing. If you want to look at a silver lining. And I'm a big believer in there's always a silver lining to be found. And maybe your dad would agree if you had a chance to talk with them. But good people do bad things all the time. And I think when good people do bad things, there's some version of them kind of taking things for granted or getting caught up in the moment, not protecting what they really have and what's most important to them. So if nothing else, maybe this is, you know, you are 30 years old, early stages of your marriage. You have one child. Yeah. You know, you guys may or may not grow your family life is not going to get any easier. It's not going to get any easier to stay connected with your husband. And it's going to be you and your husband's choice to prioritize your relationship and not take it for granted. Because at any moment, things can come up and maybe this is something for you and your husband to, you know, almost thank. Because this is a tough lesson that your dad had to teach you in a very difficult way, but it's a reminder of the importance of not taking things for granted.

[Amanda]

Yeah, I think that's a really great way of. I think, reframing all of this.

[Nick]

There is a lesson to be learned here. And maybe your last thing your dad did for you was teach you a really, really tough lesson, which sure caused you pain. But your dad had to pay the ultimate price. I mean, honestly. And I'm sure it hurts him, the memory you have of him, but if nothing else, let this be a reminder to you and your husband of the importance of not taking what you have for granted. Because that is more than anything, what your dad did at his weakest moment. He took his life for granted. And by his life, I mean his family. You know, and she's angry, she's hurt. Hurt people. Hurt people. That last sentence, the karma of it all, she's just. She's. She has on her own journey.

[Amanda]

Yeah, I think you're right.

[Nick]

And, like, her going back to the page is like, again, that's her on some level looking for some kind of validation, you know?

[Amanda]

Yeah. No, I think you're right. Well, thank you. This. This was helpful. I know maybe not the typical call, but I think talking to someone who's not connected to it, not so close to it, was helpful just to get some perspective and start the process of moving on and sort of letting it go.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, don't. Yeah, let. Move on. Let it go. It would be easy for you to make this worse than it needs to be and let this affect you for a long time, and you can choose not to let that happen.

[Amanda]

I would like to get back to grieving the loss of my father and not trying to understand the ins and outs of the mistakes that he may have made in his life.

[Nick]

My dad wasn't perfect. This was a very tough way of finding that out, but I kind of knew that. It's a wake up call for me and my husband. And honestly, just kind of thank your dad for the lesson. All right, take care.

[Amanda]

Thank you so much.

[Nick]

All right, my pleasure. Anytime. Let us. I mean, I don't know if there's much of an update other than like, maybe, you know, as time goes by, you'll have maybe a perspective, and if you have one, we'd love to hear it.

[Amanda]

Yeah, I will. I hope no more updates.

[Nick]

Stop looking. Shut down the page. Yeah. Move on. And unless this girl knocks on your door, either literally or metaphorically, you know, you may need to ask her to stop, but I honestly think she'll just go away.

[Amanda]

I hope so.

[Nick]

I think so. I think she will. All right, take care. Awesome.

[Amanda]

Thanks, Nick.

[Nick]

All right. Bye. Bye.

[Amanda]

Bye.

[Nick]

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