E857 Going Deeper with Meredith Marks

Summary

The Viall Files – Episode E857: Going Deeper with Meredith Marks

Release Date: December 18, 2024

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Introduction

In Episode E857 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall is joined by Whitney Rose and guest Meredith Marks for an in-depth conversation that delves into the complexities of relationships, conflicts within reality television circles, personal growth, and navigating public perception. This episode offers listeners a candid look into Meredith's experiences, challenges, and insights garnered from her time on reality TV and her personal life.

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Personal Updates and Recent Experiences

The episode kicks off with Meredith Marks sharing personal anecdotes, including a recent battle with illness during her birthday. Whitney Rose engages in a light-hearted discussion about improving bath experiences, highlighting Meredith's interest in bath pillows—a segue into personal lifestyle choices.

• Meredith Marks [02:37]: "I'm happy to be in LA today and feeling better. I was really sick a couple of days ago on my birthday, which was not fun."

• Nick Viall [03:19]: "I've been into baths more recently and I actually asked Nick, I don't know if you have one, but a bath pillow..."

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Navigating Conflicts and Accountability in Reality TV

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Meredith's conflicts with fellow cast member Angie and the challenges of maintaining accountability amidst rumors and misunderstandings.

• Meredith Marks [07:08]: "I think it's pretty unfair. I have said the least about anyone else on this cast. I have said very little."

• Whitney Rose [09:31]: "The capacity in which we move forward is always impacted by your ability or inability to take accountability."

Meredith discusses how Angie has persistently brought up unfounded rumors about her, affecting her reputation and relationships within the show.

• Meredith Marks [09:39]: "I think to me, the most important thing for the reunion was to clear something up that I've spent two years listening to rumors."

• Whitney Rose [14:36]: "I'm not chasing an apology because I don't really want an apology that someone doesn't want to give to me."

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Personal Relationships and Marriage Challenges

Meredith opens up about her marriage to Seth, detailing the struggles they faced, including a brief separation and the steps they took to reconcile.

• Whitney Rose [28:35]: "We were separated on and off multiple times over, like, years... We found a better therapist that taught us how to communicate."

• Meredith Marks [29:42]: "If someone tells you their feelings, accept it and don't take it as a judgment on you."

She emphasizes the importance of respectful communication and mutual support in sustaining a long-term relationship.

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Handling Rumors and Public Perception

The discussion shifts to how Meredith and her friends manage rumors and the impact of social media on their personal lives. Meredith expresses frustration over baseless rumors affecting her reputation.

• Meredith Marks [16:32]: "I have no idea if there's any growth or reconciliation on her part."

• Whitney Rose [23:18]: "Every time I see her, she has another problem... I'm still moving on."

Meredith reflects on the double standards and the difficulty of combating misinformation while maintaining personal integrity.

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Growth, Forgiveness, and Moving Forward

Meredith shares her philosophy on growth and forgiveness, highlighting her willingness to overlook past grievances to foster healthier relationships.

• Whitney Rose [17:27]: "If somebody's hurt, I am sorry that they are hurt, whether I caused it or not."

• Meredith Marks [18:07]: "I learned that there's always going to be another perspective."

She advocates for personal growth and the importance of not dwelling on past conflicts to build stronger, more respectful relationships.

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Balancing Public Life and Family

Meredith discusses the challenges of maintaining a private family life amidst the public scrutiny of reality television. She shares strategies on protecting her family from external judgments and maintaining strong familial bonds.

• Whitney Rose [57:49]: "Nothing major and nothing recent. But, you know, at the beginning it was a little trickier."

• Meredith Marks [58:42]: "We all share things because we want to help others and make things better."

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Insights on Reality TV Dynamics

Delving deeper, Meredith provides insights into the unique cultural environment of Salt Lake City, where the show is based, contrasting it with her experiences living in other places like Toronto.

• Whitney Rose [65:46]: "Utah is culturally more different than the rest of the US. It's very different."

She attributes the dynamic nature of the show to the blend of intense personal interactions and the distinct cultural backdrop of Salt Lake City.

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Conclusion and Future Outlook

As the episode wraps up, Meredith remains optimistic about future relationships and the potential for personal and collective growth within the reality TV landscape. She hints at possible returns to the show while emphasizing the importance of authenticity and accountability.

• Whitney Rose [72:53]: "I'm hoping to be back next year."

• Meredith Marks [73:04]: "We have some Blue sky impersonators... It's really been a pleasure."

Meredith concludes with a playful interaction, showcasing her ability to maintain a light-hearted demeanor despite the serious topics discussed.

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Key Takeaways

• Accountability is Crucial: Meredith underscores the importance of taking responsibility for one's actions to foster trust and respect in relationships.

• Effective Communication: Learning to communicate respectfully and openly can bridge gaps and heal strained relationships.

• Navigating Public Scrutiny: Balancing a public persona with private family life requires strategic communication and strong personal boundaries.

• Forgiveness and Growth: Embracing forgiveness and focusing on personal growth can lead to healthier, more fulfilling relationships.

• Cultural Influences: The unique cultural environment of Salt Lake City plays a significant role in shaping the dynamics of reality TV shows set there.

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Notable Quotes

• Whitney Rose [08:38]: "I have learned that you can't change the game. You have to change the way you play."

• Meredith Marks [19:06]: "I learned that I've become a little reactive on things, and I want to go back to not being as reactive."

• Meredith Marks [30:00]: "More than anything, was learning how to be respectful of each other's feelings."

• Whitney Rose [44:58]: "Second chances in life, you know, Otherwise, what is there left?"

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Viall Files provides a comprehensive look into Meredith Marks' experiences navigating the turbulent waters of reality television, personal relationships, and public perception. Through honest reflections and insightful discussions, Meredith offers listeners valuable lessons on accountability, communication, and the power of personal growth.

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Follow Meredith Marks

• Website: meredithmarks.com | meredithmarkscaviar.com
• Instagram: @meredithmarks0
• Twitter: @meredithmarks0

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Note: This summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights shared during the episode.

Transcript

[Meredith Marks]

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[Nick Viall]

This holiday season, surprise everyone on your list with the best gifts tickets to see their favorite artists live. Choose from thousands of concerts and comedy shows including Mariah Carey, Mary J. Blige, Matt Matthews, Metallica, Thomas Rhett, Trans Siberian Orchestra, Sarah Silverman and so many more. Share a memory together or give a gift they'll never forget. Find the most exciting gift for every [e-mail] gifts that's livenation.com gifts there's a lot of decisions you have to make when you have a baby and the one that I feel the most comfortable and safe making is using Huggies. For our daughter river. The new Huggies Skin Essentials are here. A brand new dermatologist approved line of diapers, wipes and pull ups training pants are all designed with baby sensitive skin.

[Meredith Marks]

In months, their wipes have zero harsh ingredients for a great gentle clean.

[Nick Viall]

The Skin Essentials diapers features the Skin Protect liner which is what helps take care of the ick and stick that can cause rash.

[Meredith Marks]

Their whole diaper helps protect against the top two causes of rash by managing moisture runny mess Pull Up Skin Essentials has got your big kid covered too with a training pant that is ultra soft and breathable to help protect sensitive skin throughout potty training. Learn [e-mail] Once again head to huggies.com to learn more.

[Whitney Rose]

You're crazy.

[Meredith Marks]

Meredith. Welcome to the Volfiles.

[Whitney Rose]

Hi. We're so excited for having me.

[Nick Viall]

So excited to have you.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, I'm happy to be here.

[Meredith Marks]

How have you been? What's like I, I feel like I want to ask 50 questions all at once, but yeah. How are you?

[Whitney Rose]

I'm great. I'm happy to be in LA today and you know, feeling better. I was really sick a couple days ago on my birthday, which was not. You were sick on your birthday? Yeah. Kind of stink.

[Meredith Marks]

What'd you have?

[Whitney Rose]

I don't know. It's just like a cough and cold.

[Meredith Marks]

And kind of that seasonal ickiness.

[Whitney Rose]

Yucky. Yeah, just yucky.

[Meredith Marks]

Were you Able to enjoy the birthday well.

[Whitney Rose]

So I spent the whole day in bed resting. And then I finally got dressed and went with Seth and two of the kids, Brooks wasn't in town, and their significant others to the nines in New York. So we had a great evening. It was fun. But my day was literally in bed. I was so tired.

[Meredith Marks]

Any bath bombs on your birthday?

[Whitney Rose]

No, I didn't have any bath bombs on my birthday. I should have though. I just took like a quick bath to get dressed and go to dinner. Cause I was moving really slow.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. I've been into baths more recently and I actually asked Nick, I don't know if you have one, but a bath pillow and it's like this big lux. It's not like your typical over the back of the bathtub bed, Bath and beyond pillow. It's like a luxurious big like bedding pillow that you lean up against.

[Whitney Rose]

Okay, I'm not familiar with this.

[Nick Viall]

I'll have to send you the link.

[Whitney Rose]

Yes. I need to know, do you not.

[Nick Viall]

Have a bath pillow?

[Whitney Rose]

I didn't even know that was a thing.

[Nick Viall]

Are you not like a little uncomfortable in the bath where you're like, my back kind of is up against this hard.

[Whitney Rose]

I mean, I, I, I think it will be much more enjoyable.

[Nick Viall]

So much more enjoyable.

[Whitney Rose]

I didn't know that was even a possibility.

[Nick Viall]

No, it's amazing.

[Whitney Rose]

You opened my mind up.

[Nick Viall]

I sent you a link for Christmas, Nick. You didn't get it.

[Meredith Marks]

I. Is that on the shopping list?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, but it's, I think the only one that they have right now is the foot pillow. So they have a butt pillow, a foot pillow, and a back pillow. This like company.

[Whitney Rose]

Keep it clean.

[Nick Viall]

The one that I'm talking about, I don't know what any of these are, but the one that I'm talking about is like you like take the lining off and wash it and then the inside is like dries very fast.

[Whitney Rose]

I mean, they could use like the gel you use like in an ice pack.

[Nick Viall]

I wonder what, it's not on your list. Well, it is. It's sold out. So I had to write sold out.

[Meredith Marks]

Oh, is that the one that says sold out?

[Nick Viall]

Sold out. Yeah.

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah.

[Whitney Rose]

I mean, I think I have to make a bath pillow.

[Nick Viall]

No, you have to make a bath pillow. That's next for you with the pillow.

[Whitney Rose]

Like, is a part of the tub.

[Nick Viall]

No, you do. You need to drop bath pillows next.

[Whitney Rose]

I like that.

[Nick Viall]

That's a great idea.

[Meredith Marks]

Well, I was telling the team we should get like, like a 12 piece bath bomb centerpiece. And then Justin was like, they're too hard to find. They're too in demand.

[Nick Viall]

Everyone wants a Meredith Marks bath bomb.

[Whitney Rose]

Wow. We love that.

[Meredith Marks]

Can we get more supply and the bath bombs? Yeah. Why are they so hard to find, Meredith?

[Whitney Rose]

They sold out in, like, let's get more. I. That's. That's up to Lush. They've got to do it. I. I don't control the inventory. They do. You just control the ones with the whole factory, you know, not me. Sure.

[Nick Viall]

That's true. You just control the demand.

[Whitney Rose]

Exactly.

[Meredith Marks]

Too much.

[Whitney Rose]

I did my job. They sold out in, like a week.

[Meredith Marks]

Do you like gifts?

[Whitney Rose]

I mean, I do like gifts, but, you know, I'm like, I'm not someone who will give you a huge list or whatever else. I like something that comes, like, from someone's heart. Yeah. It's not. It's not about getting what I want. It's more about the person who's giving. True.

[Meredith Marks]

And I think Natalie, my wife, who's sitting right next to you, would probably not give me a lift if I listened. And she knew I'd get something from the heart.

[Nick Viall]

You know, I feel like. And I don't know if you're this way. I mean, you have three grown children, so I feel like maybe you've learned this throughout the years of, like, maybe someone will say, oh, God, I would love, like, I just need a good pair of black boots. You know, I need a good, you know, just like rent. They'll say that in January, maybe, or June. And then you clock that. You think about it. Christmas, they remember they wanted a good pair of black boots.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, that's a really good gift giver. I might not be that good.

[Meredith Marks]

And if January. Now he says, I need a good pair of black boots. I'm going to go, like, to like, a good pair of black boots. I'm going to go to Clark's or. Or. Exactly, exactly. I don't know, like, who makes boots? Highlands. Highlander. Highlander.

[Whitney Rose]

Like, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

So I do. I do have to. I made Nick, like, a full PDF of, like, pictures, the link, the size, color.

[Whitney Rose]

See, this is the thing. I'm always. I send out these family texts, like, to the whole family, extended, everybody. I'm like, what does everybody want for the holidays? I want everyone to tell me. But then I want them to do all the hard part. I don't know. It's like, maybe that's not so nice at the end of the day, but I just, like, I want to. I want to give people what they want.

[Meredith Marks]

Want.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Whitney Rose]

Sometimes you just don't know.

[Meredith Marks]

I. I just think it's very nice.

[Whitney Rose]

I.

[Meredith Marks]

You know, I look at it as she's setting me up for success. You know, she's making the list. She probably checks it twice, and then. And I click that link and I see if there's in stock.

[Whitney Rose]

Okay. I think that's fair, right? I think that's good. Maybe I should be a little kinder to my husband and set him up.

[Nick Viall]

For what has been the best gift you have received from Seth.

[Whitney Rose]

My children.

[Meredith Marks]

I thought you gonna say an orgasm.

[Whitney Rose]

No, I have to put the kids first. Sor.

[Meredith Marks]

The organ is pretty good.

[Whitney Rose]

That too. Okay.

[Nick Viall]

Goodness gracious.

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah. So kids love. We love our kids. Great.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, the kids are great.

[Nick Viall]

What are your age gaps between year three?

[Whitney Rose]

They're like two years and two and a half years apart. So they're pretty close.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Meredith Marks]

Did you like that? We. We had our first. She's 10 months old, and we spent a lot of time kind of asking. Parents like yours who've done it have had success with parenting. Like, the age gap, like, do we. Do we jam it all in? Do we get it over with? Do we spread it out?

[Whitney Rose]

Like, I mean, I would. Look, I've seen, like, both ways. Obviously, for me, I wanted everyone close together at first, because I'm two years apart from my sister, and I kind of like that dynamic as a kid. And secondly, just as like the parent. I mean, it's. I think it's really hard to, like, have all your kids, like, out of diapers, very independent, and then go back to it again. I just think logistically, it's easier to have them a little closer in age. I think it's nice, like a nice dynamic for them, you know, to be closer in age for. For that. But then, like, I see the dynamics with kids that are, you know, spread further apart. And that's kind of amazing, too. I just think from the mothering standpoint, it's so much easier to have them close together. But that's what I know.

[Nick Viall]

So that's a good piece of advice.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Obviously, y'all have just filmed the reunion. How are you feeling post reunion?

[Whitney Rose]

You know, I feel pretty good post reunion. You know, I have no idea what will unfold. And, you know, obviously you're not going to see all. I don't know how many hours were there? Like, what was it? Like, 15 hours or whatever. I'm making that up.

[Nick Viall]

It was a long time.

[Whitney Rose]

It was a long time. It was really long. So, you know, I don't know What. What will be shown or not shown. But I feel like I said the things that I really needed to say, and you have to move forward. Like, that's life. Like, I. No one wants to sit in the same place. So, you know, I said what I needed to say. I don't know if I necessarily received everything I was hoping to receive, but it's fine. C'est la vie. We move on. And you, you know, you take that in stride and say, okay, this is what you're willing to be accountable for or not, and I got you, and I'm moving on, and we'll move forward. The. But the capacity in which we move forward is always impacted by your ability or inability to take accountability.

[Meredith Marks]

Very tr. Could you preview for us the reunion in the sense that who was on your list of you were hoping would be accountable?

[Whitney Rose]

I think to me, the most important thing for the reunion was to clear something up that I've spent two years listening to the women. Mainly at this point, mainly Angie, you know, to some degree still Whitney. But say that I'm responsible for these rumors about Sean and his affairs or his sexuality or whatever it is. And the reality is I never spoke about it. And you was told that at Apresky. Monica. Actually, you didn't see it, but Monica, when I first came over and was talking with him, Monica. I looked at Monica. I go, what is this about? I never said this to you. And she goes, you're right. I didn't. You didn't. I told you. And she said this to Angie the day it happened. And for whatever reason, you know, Angie kept coming after me. She was told again at Greek Easter. She kept rolling with it. We cleared it up again at reunion last year. Monica has, on her own podcast, been very clear that it wasn't me. And Angie keeps putting it out there. And so for me, the real big difficulty with that whole thing and Sean, you know, his commentary on the podcast saying that and leverage means to use to maximum advantage for those who need a dictionary. She leveraged her son. Means she used her son. She leveraged her son. Exact words. The reason it's so offensive to me was because it's not. It's impossible. How could I use my son to defend myself against something I never even did to begin with? So the whole thing was just insane. And it just felt like a very, like, vindictive behavior towards me because I didn't understand why they kept coming after me for something that they knew I didn't do from the day that it even came up.

[Meredith Marks]

Do you think maybe it's just, like, they just assume, you know, maybe from past situations that, like, it was you, because, like, you seem. I think a lot of people think you're. Well, you are very smart. You have a lawyer background. I think in previous seasons, it was like, you know, when I got into Salt Lake City, it was always like, Meredith, Mark, she. She can always, like, find the tea, and she kind of maneuvers that way. Do you think that was accurate maybe in the past and not so much this time? Or do you think that reputation is just kind of completely unfair?

[Whitney Rose]

I think it's pretty unfair. I mean, I think that we all receive information about each other that's 100% true. I've. I gotten DMs recently about people, you know, not just even my castmates. Like, I just got one this morning about a person I use for glam, and I was like, what? I mean, it was so weir. So we get sense stuff all the time. Like, there are rumors flying about absolutely everybody, and they all hear it. I hear it. We do. It's not like I'm doing anything. I. I, quite frankly, I have said the least about anyone else on this cast. I have said very little. I mean, I'll talk about how I feel, I'll talk about how I'm treated by them, but I don't talk about their other stuff. I really don't. I mean, I'll listen. You know, I can't control what's said to me that I have no control over.

[Meredith Marks]

Do you ladies, like, have a rule between, like, what rumors are discussed in platform? Because, like, sometimes it's like, even on the show, and I don't know how much is it, like, is the show where it's just like. I think it was like the Whitney, the Alibaba stuff. I don't know where that came from, but it was like. I think Lisa was like, well, this is happening and this is what people are saying. And then we're all watching a show and you guys are discussing a rumor, but discussing the rumor kind of platforms. The rumor 100. Now it's like, well, now the rumors out there and whoever the rumor is about most of the time. Well, especially if it's inaccurate. But either way, you just, like, you don't want the rumor out there. And it's. It feels like sometimes the group kind of picks and choose which rumors to talk about. Like, how do you guys decide? Or is that just like an.

[Whitney Rose]

I don't. I don't think there's any. I mean, look, I can't speak for anyone but myself. I don't have any agreements with anyone of what to bring up or not to bring up. I'm not the one who brings stuff up generally. I'm really not. I mean, Lisa brought that to me. You know, I didn't bring it to Lisa when I even mentioned, you know, let's talk about the husbands and whatever. With. With Lisa. It was all a reaction to stuff Angie was saying about my husband that just wasn't shown. You know, she was saying horrible things at that table about my husband. That's the only reason I said, let's talk about the husbands. Oh, so, you know, it wasn't in reference.

[Nick Viall]

You don't throw the first stone.

[Whitney Rose]

No, but I am human, right?

[Nick Viall]

No.

[Whitney Rose]

You know, I'm not saying that was an appropriate reaction. Of course I shouldn't have said anything, but I'm a human being, and I lose my temper, too, just like everybody else.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And if someone's, you know, coming after your husband, I would be very protective as well. So, like.

[Whitney Rose]

And all I. And I didn't even say anything about her husband. She had a lot of nasty things to say about mine, though. Everything she has accused me of are things that she has actually done to me. That's the crazy part. Look at her scroll. Those are all things she's done to me. I've done none of them to her.

[Meredith Marks]

That's right. I forgot about that scroll.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

How do you move forward with Angie if it is like, this constant thing where, I mean, we have seen her apologies that aren't the best apologies. And if, like, you feel like you're just chasing one, how do you. How do you move on?

[Whitney Rose]

Well, I'm not chasing an apology because I don't really want an apology that someone that he doesn't want to give to me. So it's not about someone admitting that they're wrong or saying that they're sorry. It's about them genuinely feeling it, you know, and if it's fake, it's irrelevant anyway, so it's. It's not about that. I don't. You know, I don't really care that much. It's more for me. If you notice, every. Almost. Almost every single confrontation that has gone on between me and Angie, it's been her approaching me. She always has a problem with me. She's holding a grudge against me. I honestly think she feels like I stole her snowflake. And that's really what the problem started from, because she seemed to have an issue with me from before we Ever even, you know, knew each other. You know, I think she feels like, well, you know, Meredith's only in Utah half the time. She's not originally from here, and she wanted to be on the show from day one. And I think she felt like I took her spot and was, like, angry at me. I don't know. That's the only thing I can think of. I don't really, because I. I didn't know her, and we had, like, problems from before we even knew each other. It's odd, but how. It's not about me. If she wants to move forward, we can move forward. As long as she stops bringing another problem to me.

[Meredith Marks]

Right?

[Whitney Rose]

Like, every time I see her, she has another problem, you know, and she's interrupting the next guy to, you know, da, da, da, da. You know, so it's up this point, you know, I'm. I'm moving on. Everything we discussed at reunion, you know, her reactions, her behaviors, and what she says about it, speaks to who she is. So if she doesn't want to take accountability, that speaks to her. That's fine. I'm still moving on. I'm not sitting in the past.

[Meredith Marks]

If you were to try to just. Radical empathy, how do you. From your pov, how do you think Angie sees this situation? Like, what's her perspective of why there's such a disconnect between both of your POVs on that situation?

[Whitney Rose]

I think that she had a problem with me, like I said before we ever really met. And I say that for a number of reasons.

[Meredith Marks]

Number one, do you think she would agree be like, yeah, I've never really liked Meredith since the beginning.

[Whitney Rose]

I don't think she'd actually admit that. I think. I don't know what she would say. Maybe she would. I have no idea. I really don't know. I don't really know her at the end of the day, you know, so I. I don't know. Maybe she would. I. I don't know. I just. The reason I say it is, you know, she flat out told me that she was ripping into me with Jen before, you know, anything started. She basically apologized to Brooks to listen about listening to, you know, things about him when she first met him. It was very odd. And, you know, she's had a problem from day one. So I've just sort of gone about living my life and tried to ignore it and. And keep moving on and coming back with more problems. So hopefully she's ready to move on and be an adult here. I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

I do think you are able to be the bigger person. I mean, I think we especially saw it in this last episode where at the dinner table, you're like, okay, maybe I don't know the full story about the whole slut shaming and high body count hair. And you were able to be like, I think, you know, I'm sorry, and I don't know the full story. And it would be nice to hear that from her. I agree.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah. I mean, look, if I. If I am in the wrong, I have no problem apologizing. I can even apologize for a situation where I don't think I'm in the wrong. Like, it was very easy for me to say to Sean, I didn't do this, but I feel badly that you even went through it and that you even thought I had a part in it, you know, and I could apologize even for that, even though I didn't do it. And so to me, I. You know, I just. I don't. I don't understand. Like, if somebody's hurt, I am sorry that they are hurt, whether I caused it or not. You know, it's at least okay to acknowledge someone else's pain.

[Meredith Marks]

Finish the sentence. This. This season of Salt Lake City for Meredith was blank. Like, how would you summarize it?

[Whitney Rose]

This season of Salt Lake City was enlightening.

[Meredith Marks]

Enlightening. How was it enlightening?

[Whitney Rose]

I think I learned a lot more about myself.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay.

[Whitney Rose]

I think I learned a lot more about most of the other women. I think I learned that you can't change the game. You have to change the way you play. And I think that's really important.

[Meredith Marks]

I love that. How. Okay. So many. So many potential questions from your answer.

[Whitney Rose]

I love it. All right.

[Meredith Marks]

How have you changed? Or what did you learn about yourself? And then let's go down the. What did we learn about the ladies?

[Whitney Rose]

I learned that I've become a little reactive on things, and I want to go back to not being as reactive. I think that I felt for a long time that I was not being heard because I wasn't yelling and screaming and that yelling and screaming solve some of that. And it really doesn't.

[Meredith Marks]

It is great tv.

[Whitney Rose]

It is, but it just kind of makes me feel crazy.

[Nick Viall]

It's iconic.

[Whitney Rose]

I've learned that, you know, there's always going to be another perspective and the way people view things, you know, especially, like, with the conflict I had with Mary and how she viewed this all unfolding versus how I did. So that was very interesting that you also don't necessarily always know what's Going on behind the scenes, that's impacting the way someone behaves and treats you. And it's important to, you know, do your best. I mean, I did ask, and I tried, but, you know, I maybe could have done better. You know, always try. I'm always trying to do better. I am. I don't know. I mean, that's, you know, kind of. I think.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay, that's a great answer. What about. What did we learn about Lisa?

[Whitney Rose]

I learned that Lisa and I really had a lot of misunderstandings. We really went into this whole process with pretty poor communication with each other, and it led to a lot of really big problems. And I've learned from Lisa that different friends have different needs from their friends, and they have different requirements that you may or may not require. And sometimes it's hard to navigate that. Like, I'm not someone who needs a ton of reassurance, and Lisa is, and my husband is. And that's something I learned, you know, through a lot of the stuff I went through with Seth. And so once I was able to understand that, which, you know, took a while, I was able to better navigate the friendship. And Lisa and I have learned really, just to be very straightforward with each other, and we're not letting everyone else get in between us. You know, there's a lot of gas thrown on the fire. I think there's a lot of jealousy that we are friends, maybe some fear to some degree. I don't know. But, you know, I think a lot of the women don't want us to be friends. And it seems. I mean, you saw a lot of it through the season, you know, a lot of meddling, and now we're very aware of it. So it's like, keep trying. Go for it. It's just gonna show who you are.

[Meredith Marks]

Who meddles the most between. In trying to break you and Lisa up, do you feel.

[Whitney Rose]

I mean, I think over the long term, we'd have to say Whitney for sure, you know.

[Meredith Marks]

Why do you think that?

[Whitney Rose]

Why do I think she does that? I don't know. I don't know.

[Meredith Marks]

Why do you think that is? I guess, like, it. Like what are.

[Whitney Rose]

Oh, like the evidence. Why is it evidence?

[Meredith Marks]

What's the. The evidence from your perspective?

[Whitney Rose]

Just things she said to me about Lisa. Things I know she's said to Lisa about me. Things she's, you know, stirred the pot in, like, my father's memorial, you know, she told me it was all Lisa's fault, like, that she had nothing to do with it. This, that, and the other, you Know, things like that. She plays a lot of behind the scenes games, stirring things up. She told Lisa, like, there's this whole thing at Whitney's. What was it when she rebranded and she invited some guy to the party that she was saying that was like sleeping with Lisa, which wasn't true and was like trying to apparently make a whole thing out of it. And then she told Lisa that I invited this guy. I didn't even know who the guy was at the party. I found out after the fact when Whitney told me. So, you know, it's like I, how could I have invited the guy? I didn't even know who he was, you know, and the whole thing.

[Meredith Marks]

Who is the guy again?

[Whitney Rose]

Some guy. I don't, I don't even know, at least.

[Meredith Marks]

And then Whitney was saying how there was something going on between Lisa and this guy.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, Lisa was. I don't. Whitney was making this whole thing up that Lisa was having an affair with him and was bringing him supposedly to like out Lisa. I, I don't know. The whole thing's insane, you know, but then she went. The whole thing's insane to begin with that anyone's going to those lengths to try to out somebody. But above and beyond that, she then tried to blame it on me. She tried to blame calling Mary a predator on me. You know, like, it just, it keeps, she keeps trying to blame her actions on me and usually it's in the form of trying to ruin my relationship with Lisa. But apparently it branched out into Mary now too. So there we go.

[Meredith Marks]

But you, you would say you and Lisa are closer than ever.

[Whitney Rose]

Yes, Lisa and I are definitely closer than ever. And we have a totally new and different friendship. And it's kind of like, you know, I say the same thing with my marriage. Like, Seth and I went through some really tough times and we nearly got divorced. We didn't. We were separated. But we call it our second marriage. It's a new relationship. And I feel the same way of about Lisa. And so like when the girls are always trying to throw history in our face, like, you did this, you did that. Da da, da, da da. We embarked on a new friendship. So we don't care about what happened in the past and we're not going to let it impact the present. And so maybe when they get that memo, maybe if they're listening, they will and they stop trying to do that, they can come up with a new mechanism to try to destroy our friendship and maybe they'll succeed, I don't know. But the old one's not gonna work anymore.

[Meredith Marks]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Meredith Marks]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Meredith Marks]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Whitney Rose]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with reunion.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

How long have you and Seth been married?

[Whitney Rose]

Total 28 years.

[Nick Viall]

28 years. Holy shit.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

What almost caused the divorce?

[Whitney Rose]

Oh, my gosh. Well, we were separated on and off multiple times over, like, years. And when we were almost getting divorced. And where we. When we had filed was when the kids all left the house. And that became the time where it was kind of like.

[Meredith Marks]

So you got straight up filed?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, but we never really went down the path. It was a filing that never went anywhere. But basically we went. Went and found a better therapist.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay.

[Whitney Rose]

But, yeah, when the kids were all out of the house, it was like, there's no reason to stay together anymore. And so if we're not gonna make this work. And we didn't really think we were. Cause we had seen other therapists, we had been in couples counseling, and we just thought, like, that it was not gonna happen. And then we got this incredible new therapist we were recommended to, and he, like, like, basically taught us how to communicate with each other. I mean, that was the whole problem. Our communication was completely broken.

[Meredith Marks]

Wow. Can you give us any tips and tricks for the people listening?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, yeah. Like, instead, like, if someone tells you their feelings, accept it and don't take it as, you know, a judgment on you, you know, and embrace and tell them, like, of course you don't want them to feel that way. Like, Seth would be like, I feel. And I'd be like, well, you. Da, da, da, da. You know, defensive.

[Nick Viall]

You get.

[Meredith Marks]

Do anything to make you sad or.

[Whitney Rose]

Exactly, exactly. And so, of course, like, if. If Seth is hurt or upset, I don't want him to feel that way. And. And maybe I don't agree with what he thinks I did, but he still is entitled to feel that way. And I don't want, you know, you have to be respectful. So that's really the bottom line for us, more than anything, was learning how to be respectful of each other's feelings. And. And then we started to communicate, you know, deeply again. But for a while, our communications just became completely transactional, because when it went back and it was just nasty.

[Meredith Marks]

When was this reunion between you and Seth really?

[Whitney Rose]

During COVID More than anything, I'm probably one of the few people on this planet who can say that Real Housewives coupled with COVID save their marriage some. I have the feeling it might be the only. Besides, it might be the only.

[Meredith Marks]

It's in a very exclusive club. Yeah.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, exactly. Only two people in it. Me and Savannah.

[Meredith Marks]

I haven't found that reality TV and relationships often, you know, work well together at times, or you have to be very strong to survive, you know, the drama that is, you know, what you ladies do, because, I mean, truly, I say this all the time as someone who knows what it's like to be on reality tv. Certainly not what it's like to be in your world, but just you ladies do, regardless of the commentary. And we talk about the show and we love it as fans and whether we're like team, you know, Meredith or team Whitney, like all of you ladies give a lot of your lives. You know, I love the Salt Lake City opening in a way that, like, I don't think other. I love how you guys really talk about how authentic and how vulnerable each of you are, you know, and you. And it's tough. It's tough to maintain of a norm like normalcy, your family and the relationship, you know, so much is, you know, put out there for us to judge and criticize, and that must be very difficult at times. So for you guys to not only make it work, but to reunite during that period is really something.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah. I mean, because we were in the space that we were in working on our communication and, you know, with the therapist. And then, of course, when the world shut down, you know, you. You do a very deep reevaluation of what's important in life. Like, everyone thought they were dying, you know, and so I. I just think that those. Those things put together reality tv, yes, it can be very difficult, but it also can be, like I said, enlightening and very. If you're someone who can be introspective and self reflective. And I'm not saying everyone of the women that are on my show can be, but some can, some cannot, and I think I can. You really can learn a lot about yourself and about, like, the way if. If you are open to learning, you know, and. And to me, it's like, it's not just about always being right. It's about me understanding, like, why someone perceived what I was doing was whatever it was when that wasn't my intention so that I can do better and be better, you know, And a lot of the women play this, like, tit for tat game. Like, you did this to me, so I'm gonna do that to You. You were nice to me. That's not the way I live at all. You know, I try to do better. I try to be better. I try to grow. To me, giving is about, you know, wanting to, like gang's whole thing. I gave you a present. I don't give people presents to hold it over their heads. I did have an anniversary gift for them. She knows this. I had received some sad news right before I walked in to the thing and was very stressed and forgot her gift. And she knew that. But it's fine. It's no big deal, you know? And then the next time I saw them was Palm Springs. And that didn't go well, so I didn't feel like giving them the gift. So I wasn't going to still have it. Maybe I will this year. What's the gift? What?

[Meredith Marks]

What's the gift?

[Whitney Rose]

Oh, I'm not telling. It's not shampoo.

[Meredith Marks]

Maybe she'll be nicer when she finds out you got her some cool shit.

[Whitney Rose]

You know, Maybe it's just caviar. She wants to give it the shampoo. I'll give it. No, it's not.

[Meredith Marks]

Gabby, you and Seth, like, right now, stronger than ever, doing well?

[Whitney Rose]

We are. You know, it was. It's been a little bit of a tougher year because, like I said, like, this whole thing, everything locked down in Covid. And then he was like. I was with him, you know, during lockdown, and then after that, he was pretty much working remote. So he was just traveling wherever I needed to be and doing whatever I needed to do. And then this year, and, you know, in the new year in January, he really needed to be in Columbus, and as the year progressed, needed to spend more and more and more and more time there. And it was hard. Cause it's not what we were used to. We got very used to being together all the time. And, you know, as much as he can get on my nerves from time to time, it is really nice, you know, and it's. It's like you're connected. And when we're in different places, it's tough because, like, Hope. Call me when he gets home from dinner. And I'm on my way out to dinner, and, you know, you're on different schedules, and so it's hard to even connect and catch up. So especially, like in a.

[Meredith Marks]

It's been tough, especially with couples, right? Because I think, you know, Natalie and I, when we met, she was living in Savannah, I was in la. So when it's long distance there, there's an excitement, you know, to call, download your day, whatever. But once you have a routine with someone you live together, when you're catching up, it's like, how's your day? You know, it's like, you know, it's like, good, right? Okay, bye. You know, like, it's harder to just sit down and have a chat and connect when you're just, you know, you feel like you know everything about that person in person. Much easier just to. You can connect in a million different ways other than words and things like that and communicate that way. So.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, it does. Even if we're just in the same bed at night, you know, even if we're both running and doing totally different things all day, and we're just like that intertwined leg, you know, whatever it is, that little, like, those connections, I think are important. So it's. It is difficult. But we'll see, you know, what the next chapter brings. He wrapping up what he's been working on and moving on. And so I'm hopeful that we're excited to be with me more, maybe be.

[Meredith Marks]

In Columbus lesson with you more. Okay. Yeah. Cause I just. I think during the Palm Springs episode, I feel like with, you know, he had to leave, and I feel like there was, like, online speculation, is like, oh, is this going to be the beginning of, like, something wrong with Meredith and Seth? But, like, for the most part, we're doing okay.

[Whitney Rose]

Oh, no, we're doing great. We're nowhere at that place. Nowhere even near that place.

[Meredith Marks]

How did you guys deal when you guys did file or when it was like, ooh, I don't know if we're going to make it? How did you guys communicate that with the kids? And. And how did. Yeah, what is that like, from a parent? You know, hopefully now, and I never deal with that, but I'm sure over the years there'll be moments of disconnect, and we'll have to work to. To stay connected. But that must be very scary and challenging to feel like you're in this disconnection with your husband and. And considering divorce, knowing that you have children. And then what are we going to say? What was that like? And how did you guys handle that?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, it's horrible because, you know, all you. Every parent wants to do is to protect their kids. And that's all we wanted, was to protect our kids. And that's why we were, you know, very secretive about all of our problems from them. Like, they really didn't. I mean, at least I like to think they didn't know. They probably did at some level. And I don't know, the crazy thing for me is that I had always said, like, I want my kids to witness healthy relationships and, like, if my marriage isn't good, I need to just, like, move on and get a divorce and not. Not, you know, let them live in. In that life. And. And I did the exact opposite when it actually happened to me. And I don't really know why. You know, I'd, like. I think it was kind of like, oh, we've made it this far. There's not, you know, the kids are almost out of the house. Let it just. Whatever. And it was a really bad idea because the more you try to. Try to sweep things under the rug, the more they, like, rear their ugly heads and it just gets worse and snowballs and exacerbates itself. And so I wouldn't recommend anyone following the path that I went down during that time. I don't think it was a positive way to handle things. The path I would recommend following would be our reconciliation.

[Meredith Marks]

Is there anything from this season because you talked about being reflective and being able to admit you're wrong. Is there anything looking back? Because I would. I mean, shit, when I was on tv, something happens, you're in a fight, great. You leave that. And like you said, the benefit of TVs, you get to go back and have it replayed. And assuming everything is shown as it airs, you can sometimes, like, oh, well.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, I'd love to point something out about that that's interesting that you brought that up, because you know what you're talking about. You're talking about when we were at Mary's lunch and Angie said something about. About the past. And I said, well, if you want to go backwards, I don't think that's productive. You want to go backwards. I don't want to go backwards. I'm so glad you brought that up. Thank you, thank you, thank you. For a few reasons. First and foremost, you saw that exact same dynamic moments earlier with Bronwyn and her prenup, and nobody had a problem with her saying it. She's like, you want to talk about my prenup? We can go there. I don't think you're going to, like, the outcome or whatever. It was something like that same exact dynamic. Not a problem. It's a double standard with me, with the lady. I was not threatening Angie. I was saying, I don't want to go backwards. Like, I don't think it's positive for me or for her. That's not a threat in my view.

[Nick Viall]

Just like, in general, you don't want to live in.

[Whitney Rose]

No, I don't. I don't think that's positive advice. It was weird to me that she was so offended and she keeps making these accusations of me threatening her, but the reality is she's the one who has threatened me in the cave in Bermuda. She flat out looked at me and said, I am threatening you. Like, it couldn't be any more clear, you know? And then we see our confessionals, her, like, speculating on taking a hit out on my family. Whatever. I think that was a joke. But my point is, strong joke. I'm not the ones making the threats here.

[Meredith Marks]

Do you think it's because there's a little bit of, like, I guess, fear of what they think you could be capable of because you have the education and background that you do, as opposed to someone else saying something? It just seems more or less horror.

[Whitney Rose]

Or maybe I should make a threat that they should be. No, I'm kidding.

[Meredith Marks]

I will say I question. Do you. Would you rather be liked or respected?

[Whitney Rose]

I'd rather be respected. I don't really care. I don't really care.

[Meredith Marks]

Would you be, like, feared?

[Whitney Rose]

I don't think I really want to be feared.

[Meredith Marks]

Not like scary or bad, but, like, not so bad if people are weird.

[Whitney Rose]

I'm not sure if that's the exact thing I would want. I don't think I'd want that. But respected. Yeah.

[Meredith Marks]

Sometimes you fear people you respect. Just because you fear someone doesn't mean they're bad or capable of doing something bad. Maybe you're just like, you fear what they're capable of. Especially if you're in the wrong sometimes, you know, maybe.

[Whitney Rose]

You okay, then? I'm okay with fear.

[Meredith Marks]

I'm fine with people afraid being afraid of me. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Speaking of people being afraid and fear, you are still in communication with Jen Shaw?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, well, I, I spoke. She called like yesterday. A couple. No, like a couple months ago. And that's the only time I've ever met with her. It was wild. I answered the phone and it's like, you are.

[Nick Viall]

You have a collect call.

[Whitney Rose]

Have a call from a federal penitentiary. I don't know, something like. It was like this weird.

[Meredith Marks]

Immediately assumed it was Jen.

[Whitney Rose]

Well, yeah, that's the only call I'd be getting from a federal penitentiary. At least that I'm aware of. So, yeah, so. And, and, you know, it's limited to 10 minutes and the recorded voice comes on probably every three to remind you that you're on the phone with a federal penitentiary.

[Meredith Marks]

Are you sure you want to do this?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, you know, it was. It was a very, like, simple call, you know, because she was just calling.

[Meredith Marks]

To say hi, just check in.

[Whitney Rose]

She had pretty much, you know, just kind of, I mean, it was really like, how's your family? What's, you know, going on? She seemed, seemed relatively upbeat and, you know, she seemed to be doing well.

[Meredith Marks]

And didn't ask you, like, to bake a cake and put a spoon in it or anything like that?

[Whitney Rose]

No, none of that. None of that, no. Smuggling? Yeah. No, I mean, I think, you know, she's serving her time and paying the restitution that she can. And I'm told that Coach is assisting and paying restitution as well. So what else can you ask for?

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah. And how do you kind of, as a friend, how do you reconcile with that versus, you know, hey, she did a thing. It wasn't great. There's certainly victims involved. I think anyone in our lives that we care about, you know, we. We want to offer grace for the same reasons that we hope people offer us grace, you know, if we fuck up, you know, and then we have to kind of measure the fuck up versus, like, am I even capable of doing like that? Something like that. And so how have you reconciled your relationship with Jen versus, like, what she did and kind of where she is now, if there has been any growth or, you know, reconciliation on her part?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, I mean, I'm very hopeful that there's, you know, been growth. I. I don't know. Cause I'm not in consistent communication with her. But from what I'm, you know, told that she's is working on herself very hard. It's interesting to me because I think a lot of people didn't understand what happened in season three and how I was able to, you know, be there for Jen and why I was able to turn my attitude around with her, especially after what we went through with Brooks and how, you know, obviously I'm very protective of Brooks. I don't think anyone would debate that. And the reality is, you know, Jen, during that time had, you know, made an attempt on her life. And I went through that with my nephew at that same point in time. And it weighed very heavy on me. And I. I made a commitment to myself that, you know, if in fact she was innocent, then I'd stand by and, you know, help her work through that and get the help she needed at that point. And if, in fact, she was not. I was not. I, I just. She needed support and I, I Just, I couldn't watch that with what I had been through. And so I just let it all go. And that's what's so funny to me, because these women are like, she holds grudges. I hold grudges the least of anybody. Like, Like, I let everything go. I very, very easily. I'm pretty forgiving. And so that's really what happened. I just, I said, you know, I've got you. I, I, you know, I'm. Whatever happened in the past is in the past. And I wanted to make sure that she made it through the process alive. That was really the bottom line to me. So she and I have work to do when she gets out, if there's going to be something to move forward on. And we didn't really resolve anything. We tabled it. And she can, you know, show that she's grown and wants to do better and we can move on, or she can show that she hasn't. I'm hopeful, you know, for the former.

[Meredith Marks]

But you're, you're, you're willing, clearly, to give her the opportunity to see if she has growth.

[Whitney Rose]

Well, of course. I mean, let me ask you this. Like, we have to believe in second chances in life, you know, Otherwise, what is there left? Like, what am I supposed to say? You did something that's so bad, you should go sit in the corner and just die? Die. Like, no, you can't. If you, if she's being accountable, if she's being apologetic, if she's paying her dues, you know, served her time and is paying her restitution and makes right on any wrongs that she had done to the people around her, you know, her friends. What more could you ask someone for? Like, you gotta move on.

[Nick Viall]

Is there any part of you that would want her back on the show, though?

[Whitney Rose]

I mean, that's not my choice. So I. I don't know.

[Meredith Marks]

But we would love to know if it was, like, I think, like, if, if casting or the producers called you up to. Meredith, we're just, we're struggling here. Not really sure what we should do with Jen. We trust your judgment. You have great taste. What do you think, Meredith? The buck stops with you?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah. I think it would have to be, like, kind of baby steps to see how she handles everything. You know, I think like a friend of. I don't know, I think, like. Yeah, you know, I think a lot of times when anyone new comes in, no one really knows what capacity they're coming in as, you know, and so, I mean, I don't think they should, like, make any kind of guarantees, But I think, like, people deserve a second chance, in my view, if they're righting the wrongs.

[Nick Viall]

Would you rather have Jen or Monica back?

[Whitney Rose]

I think that the issue for me with Monica is that she hasn't taken accountability. And, you know, I think that that would be a first step to anything. Whereas, I mean, Jen's had the roughest of accountability. Like, she's in federal prison. That's. She.

[Meredith Marks]

Has Jen apologized to you or the other ladies for whatever lies she may have told or deception she might have kind of portrayed between.

[Whitney Rose]

I mean, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying everything kind of went on hold, and there's stuff to work through still.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay, so TBD on Jen, but she's.

[Whitney Rose]

Been in prison, so who knows where that goes? But my point is, like, second chances, you know, let's see if she can step up. I think she can.

[Meredith Marks]

What part with Monica do you think she needs to take accountability for? Like, I. You know, it's been a while since we had Monica here and interviewed her, and certainly she was very defensive of her pov.

[Nick Viall]

I think it was a lot of remaining the. Like, I never said anything about the women on the show that was the other people who were running the account. I think she still stands by that.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay, yeah. But from your. I guess, your point of view, Meredith, just between you and Monica, if Monica called you up and was kind of like, hey, Meredith, what's up? What would you want to hear from her for you to be open to the possibility of considering Monica was heading in the right direction?

[Whitney Rose]

So what's really interesting to me with Monica is that she has publicly taken accountability for a lot of the issues that I personally had with with her. She just never did it with me. So. But on her own podcast, she. I mean, like, there's. I. I have a whole audio clip from her podcast where, you know, she was be. They were explaining, like, angie, scroll to her, and she goes, oh, I did all of those things. Why is she accusing Meredith of this? Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And so she did take accountability for it, just not to me, and not at reunion and not in a. In a way that, like, would help move her forward. I mean, it's. It's kind of odd to me that that's how she chose to do it, but I'm glad she did.

[Meredith Marks]

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[Nick Viall]

What did you think of Heather announcing in her book that Coach and Monica shared some sort of relationship kiss moment?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's not true, but that's something I just would have never touched upon.

[Nick Viall]

Even gone there.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, no, that's. That would have been a hard no for me.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay. Where do you stand with Heather?

[Whitney Rose]

Heather, we're good.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay?

[Whitney Rose]

We're good. You'll see. We have a little bit of conflict at one point. You'll see. But, you know, we're good. We're good. We're great. She texted me on my birthday and. And everything's all good.

[Nick Viall]

Where is Mei Lee in all of this? I feel like she's been introduced and then she kind of M.I.A. yeah.

[Whitney Rose]

You know, she kind of disappeared. You know, like she was around at the beginning and then I don't know what happened and why she wasn't really around. I'm not sure what happened. Like, she was. I mean, obviously she wasn't invited to Palm Springs, so that like narrowed it down a little there. And then like, like the next time we see her really was. Saw her was at camping and then she didn't go on the trip to Puerto Vallarta. So I mean, I guess that's really it. She missed two of the trips. So that kind of.

[Nick Viall]

Maybe after the. She got roped into high body count hair. Her bump it. Her bump it? Yeah, her bump it. With Britney, she was like, you know what?

[Whitney Rose]

Maybe I'm. I've had. Look, I wouldn't blame her from a TV station.

[Meredith Marks]

From my standpoint, I've really enjoyed the newcomers in Brawin and Britney. They're very entertaining. How is your relationship with both of those ladies and how, how do you see their kind of arrival onto the scene?

[Whitney Rose]

Bronwyn and Britney. You know, I made a choice going into the season with all the newbies that I've had too many surprises in the past with newbies and that I was kind of reserving all judgment until I actually saw the full season.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay.

[Whitney Rose]

I had some ups and downs with both, mostly at the end. You'll see.

[Meredith Marks]

And can you tease which one in particular?

[Whitney Rose]

Well, I think we all saw me screaming like a crazy person on the van. You're recording us? You're vile, disgusting. Yeah, it was not my finest moment. That's what we love about it. But it was real. I was pretty upset. And there was other stuff that kind of went down in the same time frame that probably incited me a bit more and kind of all combined created the explosion. Okay. So yes, we definitely had some ups and downs and Bronwyn was a little more of an easy resolution. I think it was pretty easy to clean up at reunion.

[Meredith Marks]

Bronwyn strikes me we got to interview her. We met her, we saw her at Kathy Hilton's party. Why weren't you at Kathy Hilton's Christmas party party?

[Whitney Rose]

Well, I was, I went last night for the Glad party. I didn't, I couldn't come in. I had other stuff in New York last week. She's busy. I have to my weeks in la.

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah, Brin, her vibe, which is why I partly just really enjoy as a housewife, is sure she can be messy. She seems to want to, you know, be a good housewife and make her mark. But she does seem to be willing to take accountability. She, I, I, she seems to apologize pretty easily, you know. Do you agree? Disagree?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, I think so. I think apologize very easily. Yes. Accountability. If she agrees. Yes, yes.

[Meredith Marks]

Okay.

[Whitney Rose]

I think she's, she plays a little bit with semantics, but yes, I agree with what you're saying. I do.

[Meredith Marks]

Brittany. I mean, TV wise, I didn't realize how much I enjoy watching her until it was Palm Springs when it was like, wait, what's missing? It's like, Brittany, I do struggle, though, just as, as a new father. It's been a challenge for me. And I'm curious as someone who's gotten to know her, to see her, you know, I love that she's out there dating. I love that she's still pursuing love at this stage of her life. It's sometimes hard to, to watch when she references her disconnect with her children. Almost as like an afterthought. You Know, just like how it comes across. How do you see that? Have you guys have had any conversations about that? That obviously kind of a sensitive issue with children involved, but, like, she does bring it up, you know, is that as tough for you as someone who's obviously very protective and very involved in your children's lives, for, for Britney to at least seemingly prioritize some of these messy men over her children, or is that an unfair statement?

[Whitney Rose]

I don't know enough about her situation to know if that's a fair or unfair statement, but it's hard. I mean, it's a really tough situation. First of all, I don't really fully understand the circumstances of her, you know, relationship with the kids and, and, and exactly why it is broken or, or somewhat broken. I think it's somewhat repaired, but I'm not.

[Nick Viall]

Well, she had an announcement and she did spend time with.

[Whitney Rose]

Exactly right. So it's, it's tricky because, you know, you never really understand. I mean, for me, you know, there's nothing that's more important than my children. I don't know that she doesn't feel the same way. I would would imagine she does. I think she's had certain traumas that maybe have made her take actions that she regrets. I, it's hard to speak for somebody else. I mean, I think she genuinely loves her children and wants a positive relationship there. And I think, you know, that she wants to try to repair it. So I, I, I hope she does.

[Meredith Marks]

You know, how have you managed your public life with, you know, your relationship with your children? Because, I don't know, I imagine there that must bring challenges, you know, especially when you're involved in drama or whatever. Like, are your kids pretty cool with that? Has it ever created any ripples in terms of frustration with your kids for having to protect their mom? I don't know. I'm just trying to think of all the things that young kids or young adults or teenagers might, you know, take exception with their parents being on tv.

[Whitney Rose]

Nothing major and nothing recent. But, you know, at the beginning it was a little trickier. First of all, they were younger and like, you know, you say something that you don't realize is something you're not supposed to say because is they're young and sensitive, you know, and, and then you feel horrible and that's a whole issue and whatever else. So we had that. And then, you know, of course, like, there was a lot of trolling with Brooks, you know, when we first started, and that was a little rough, but that's all fine. Like you know, I think my whole family has grown to have thicker skin, and we've just grown a lot closer. You know, it's like, you. You recognize how important family is. You recognize how important these relationships are, and the. That you really are there to support each other, really are the ones who understand what's going on, you know, because there's a lot of elements that people can't possibly even understand what you deal with.

[Meredith Marks]

You know, how have you kind of handled involving your kids? I think there's obviously, with this season, what Mary's going through with her son. I mean, I haven't in the past two episodes, crying, just watching the scene. And, you know, there's a lot of discourse online, which I kind of beyond see both sides. I think one side, you know, you have some people being like, should we be watching this? Almost feels like too intrusive. On the other side. I really have appreciated how Mary has addressed this very sad situation and the vulnerability that she has presented. And I thought it was just really brave of her as a parent to. To me, it wasn't about, like, taking blame, but I think. I think sometimes in situations as parents, you know, a lot of people like, oh, it's not. It's never your fault. Or, you know, like, your friends will be like, oh, you know, and. Which I completely agree, you know, there's a lot of things that are outside of our control. I just really appreciated Mary' willingness to consider the possibility that, like, she had a role to play and not. Not. Not for, like, blaming herself. But it was. What. What seemed obvious to me is that all Mary cared about was her son and her son getting better. And she was willing to take whatever accountability she needed to, if there was accountability to take just for her son to get better. And I just really thought that was a really positive and healthy message to kind of share with the world, even at the risk of airing something that seemed very personal and sensitive. I guess. How do you see it and how do you balance that on your own and with your family between trying to figure out, like, should we be airing this out and sharing with this the world, or, hey, this could have a positive impact on maybe other people's lives who are struggling with. Who have kids struggling with addiction and things like that. So, yeah, how do you see it?

[Whitney Rose]

Look, I think that the message Mary sent to, you know, a lot of kids who could be an. In very fragile circumstances, you know, go seek help from your mother, your parents. I think it's such an important message that maybe not everyone would do that if they were in the same shoes. But I don't think you can criticize it, you know, I think, like, you're sharing something that could really help a lot of people, like, could save lives, you know, and so I don't think you can criticize that. You know, I think that's not fair. Like, maybe it wouldn't be right for you and your personal circumstances. But we all, I think, share things because, I mean, at least I hope we want to help others, you know, and we want to make things better for other people. I mean, I hope that's what we're all doing to some extent. And that's why, like, with the hearing aid thing, I was irritated because I'm like, you know, I shared this because there's so many people out there that have such a stigma around it. And I wanted people to feel positive and good about it. And so I was like, if you're making fun of it, you're taking away from the positive message I'm sending to people. And, you know, so that's why, you know, it wasn't that big of a deal, but that's why it was a big deal to me because I was, I was trying to make things better for other people by sharing my experience. And I felt like it was detracting from the positive messages I was sending. It's not like it was that, you know.

[Meredith Marks]

Yeah. With like, very traumatic situations like the one Mary's going through, despite all the drama, are those things that bring the group together and kind of like, hey, despite any differences, you know, we, we need to come together. For Mary, who really is, you know, it's. It's one thing to be fighting about who said what or what rumors were spreading. And then there's another thing to have a friend need because her son is.

[Nick Viall]

You know, and be like, we're all moms. Like, we all.

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, I mean, in theory, yes, I do think that's true, but in reality, I didn't know anything about this until it went on social media in like September, October, whenever, whenever we all read about it. So I knew nothing about it. I don't think anybody did except for Angie, as far as I know. But maybe, maybe, I don't know.

[Meredith Marks]

Have there been any kind of follow ups with Mary, you know, since the revelation, you know, in terms of checking in?

[Whitney Rose]

Oh, I, I reached out to her immediately when I read the news, you know, and, and she said, no, everything's good. This was, you know, because I didn't know if it was the way the news Read. I thought it was in real time. I didn't know that it had already happened. And she's like said, no, no, no, everything's good. That was, you know, during filming and, and whatever. And so, you know, of course I, I checked in and my nephew also offered, you know, to be of any help he could be because he went through a very similar circumstance and. Yeah, but no, Mary and I had a nice little text from when I was in New York. I ran into her stylist at Saks and he actually came up at reunion randomly. So I was telling him about it and I texted Mary, you know, and told her than I saw him. And it was sad. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Jumping ship just a little bit. Where do the rumors, the Airbnbs, the, like, you don't live in a real. You don't own your own house. Like, where is this coming from? Why is it still being brought up?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, it's kind of creepy how obsessed they are with, like, my lifestyle.

[Nick Viall]

It's weird that she just like, doesn't own her own home. And every season it's a new home and they say it's like Airbnbs and.

[Whitney Rose]

It'S like, I mean, it's not an Airbnb, but it is a winter ski rental. You know, I mean, whatever, Airbnb, whatever you want. But yeah, I do take a winter ski rental in the winter. You know, when Seth and I vowed for divorce years ago, we sold our house in Park City. It was a second home. We have not lived in Park City full time for over a decade now. We're part timers and, you know, we just, at that point we sold it because we thought we were getting divorced. And I actually really like doing the winter ski rental because I come in, I'm there, I leave, I don't have to think about it or worry about it. You know, we're there five, six months out of the year.

[Meredith Marks]

And what's the criticism? Like, it's, you know, I don't know, supposed to own.

[Whitney Rose]

I think it's creepy.

[Meredith Marks]

I think it's really creepy.

[Whitney Rose]

Like, why does anyone care? We have multiple homes, we live in multiple cities. Like, who cares? It's a great lifestyle. I love it. I live in hotels a lot too. It's really pretty fabulous. In fact, I prefer hotel living.

[Meredith Marks]

What, are they trying to get to the bottom too?

[Whitney Rose]

I. I don't know. I've been pretty honest about it from day one. I've never, like, said anything to the contrary. I think it's kind of fabulous. You know, a couple months in Europe in the summer, and, you know, a couple months in New York, couple months in la. Not so bad.

[Meredith Marks]

What do you make of just kind of like what seems to be a Salt Lake City, like, Hollywood awakening in a sense that obviously you ladies are crushing, you know, men. Many. Most of us, including me, think Salt Lake City is the best housewives on TV right now.

[Whitney Rose]

Thank you.

[Meredith Marks]

You have the secret lives of Mormon wives on Hulu that we got to interview them, you know. Also, very entertaining television show. I think Bravo's investing in a real.

[Nick Viall]

Estate show, selling Salt Lake City or something. Yeah.

[Meredith Marks]

Like, what do you think is going on in Salt Lake City? What. What makes all of you so dynamic and interesting and. And why do you think. Think everything that Salt Lake is putting out right now seems to be really working?

[Whitney Rose]

Well, first of all, we're insane.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, let's start there.

[Whitney Rose]

Now, Utah is. You know, it's interesting because we lived in Toronto for a little while shortly before we moved to Park City. And when I moved to Park City, I said, Utah is culturally more different than the rest of the US Than Toronto was. It's very different. I. It's hard to explain. I think part of it is just the influence of the church and, you know, having such a heavy religious impact. And I. I don't know. It's just. It's a. It's culturally completely different than anywhere else I've ever lived. More so than Canada. Wow. I think that's why it's interesting.

[Meredith Marks]

What's your soda drink?

[Whitney Rose]

I don't drink soda.

[Nick Viall]

You're not putting coffee creamer in your Dr. Pepper and pickle juice?

[Whitney Rose]

No, I don't do those soda things. No, no, I'm. I'm a coffee girl.

[Meredith Marks]

What do we want to wrap up with? Meredith? We had. If we had one more question to ask you or.

[Whitney Rose]

Oh, my gosh. You're flipping the script on me.

[Meredith Marks]

Well, we want to be respectful of your time, so we know you got to get going. I could probably talk to you for hours more, but, you know, if. Yeah. Did we. Did we get out everything you wanted to get out, or.

[Whitney Rose]

I mean, I think we kind of covered most.

[Nick Viall]

Who was lying about Alibaba?

[Whitney Rose]

What do you mean? Whitney. She didn't have proof about it. Like, she had somebody who played 20 questions with her and said that was.

[Meredith Marks]

What do you mean, so.

[Nick Viall]

Because, remember, it was like, it's someone. It was the, like, clue. It's. It's. It's the woman and the candle.

[Meredith Marks]

Well, maybe. Maybe I'm forgetting my understanding of the Alibama I was Team Whitney at the time. Maybe you can clarify up. It just felt like my understanding of a lot of you ladies have successful businesses. You know, bath bombs. I guess she, you know, she did a bathroom. I can see why that irritates you. But regardless, the.

[Whitney Rose]

I didn't understand that much.

[Meredith Marks]

I didn't really understand. I don't even know if it was Lisa or whatever, but the rumor that Whitney was doing something wrong because she was, like, repurposing, I don't know, stuff in Alibaba, which seems to be my understanding. A lot of people that's kind of. Isn't that the playbook? I don't know.

[Whitney Rose]

So I don't think that anyone was saying Whitney was doing something wrong. So, again, like, you. You don't see the whole conversation, but the conversation that Lisa had with me was saying, I feel badly that this is blowing up on social media because it was. It was. The presentation was not positive for Whitney the way it was being presented. And that was really it. We weren't actually discussing whether it was right or wrong or in between. We were just saying we felt badly.

[Meredith Marks]

How did that get turned into. From our standpoint, it being seemingly like Whitney was being shady.

[Whitney Rose]

What do you mean?

[Meredith Marks]

It would just seem like the accusation towards Whitney was that, like Whitney was, I don't know, doing something that she shouldn't be doing with her business. With her business.

[Whitney Rose]

Oh, well, I don't think that was ever the issue because Whitney, from day this is what was weird to me. So from day one, when she first brought it up in this printer van, Whitney's like, I curate, and it's on my website. And that's how this came out on social media. They found it on my own website because I said I curated it. So if she says she curated it, there's absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with what she's doing. Like, it's perfectly upfront and honest. But then why was it this whole issue of Lisa telling the blogs that she did it when she said it was from her own website to begin? Okay, it made no sense. The whole thing made no sense to me. I was very confused. No one was criticizing what she was doing because she flat out said it on her own website. So how could you criticize that?

[Nick Viall]

Right? You know, where did you buy your bangs from?

[Whitney Rose]

I didn't. I didn't. I had a hairstylist buy them for me.

[Nick Viall]

I think they look. How is that. How is that hairstylist taking the reaction?

[Whitney Rose]

We haven't even talked about it. I mean, I I didn't. I love. I didn't mind reaction. I thought the whole thing was hysterical.

[Nick Viall]

No, it's iconic.

[Whitney Rose]

It's meant to be fun and funny and, you know, I. I think it was fun and funny, and if you didn't like it, I'm sorry. I was having fun.

[Meredith Marks]

You committed?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah. How do you not show up with bang? It's like, whatever. Yeah. I will say I went to the most insane Audrey Hepburn Breakfast at Tiffany's holiday party last week. Oh, my gosh.

[Nick Viall]

Was everyone wearing bangs?

[Whitney Rose]

No, actually. Really? People didn't really dress up so much. The hostess didn't. A couple people did. I didn't because I had another holiday party after, and I was like, been there, done. I can do this.

[Meredith Marks]

Right.

[Whitney Rose]

Especially with the way the bangs went last time. But it was. It was so cute. It was so fun. It's such a good theme.

[Nick Viall]

How do we saw Mary's reaction to Lisa wearing the same outfit that she has worn? Is that kind of like a.

[Meredith Marks]

No.

[Nick Viall]

No. In the Housewives? It's like, I wore that first.

[Whitney Rose]

You know, it's funny because that season, I actually went to Paris for Fendi's haute couture show right after they released that jumpsuit. And there were at least a dozen people in there in that jumpsuit. So I don't think it's that big of a deal. Like, I think to each his own. You know, Wear what makes you happy. Do what you want. Like, I don't worry about what everyone else is wearing. I worry about what I'm wearing.

[Meredith Marks]

I think my dad has this flannel.

[Whitney Rose]

See, there you go. Are you gonna get mad?

[Meredith Marks]

No, above it. Meredith has been so much. Thank you for coming. It's really been a pleasure.

[Nick Viall]

Before we let you go, can you give us one accent that people like to say is fake that I don't believe is fake? I think it is real.

[Whitney Rose]

Oh, my God. Well, then if I'm doing it, how can it be real? Because then it's going to be fake for sure.

[Meredith Marks]

What's it do you love an impression of yourself?

[Whitney Rose]

You know what? I'll give you on closing that you'll. I can I do Lisa Barlow's outgoing voicemail? Because I'm obsessed, and I literally, like, sometimes my kids are like, be quiet, mom, because I won't stop doing it.

[Meredith Marks]

Please. We'll never tell you to be quiet.

[Whitney Rose]

Okay, well, thank you. I might stand here for hours now. They're like, no, you have to go. Okay. Hi, you've reached Baby Gorgeous, and I'm unavailable Right now to take your call because I'm at the drive thru. John, John, tell them easy ice and a lemon. I need my diet coke because I love that savvy eyes.

[Meredith Marks]

You almost like, shape shifted into Lisa. You almost look like Lisa. You even have her mannerisms down. It's very good.

[Nick Viall]

You're a chameleon.

[Meredith Marks]

I was like, holy sh.

[Whitney Rose]

Convince Lisa to let me leave her outgoing voicemail, please. Hey, baby gorgeous.

[Meredith Marks]

Do you like an impression of yourself?

[Whitney Rose]

Yeah, I do. Like when someone does that. Are you going to do it? The rumors and the nastiness you want to talk about the has been this very good. Thank you. It was actually really good. Thank you. Thank you. I love it.

[Meredith Marks]

Meredith. So much fun. We appreciate you.

[Whitney Rose]

You guys are amazing.

[Meredith Marks]

Best of luck the rest of the way. Are you definitely back next season?

[Whitney Rose]

Well, I don't know.

[Meredith Marks]

Is that your plan?

[Whitney Rose]

I mean, I have to be asked.

[Meredith Marks]

Sure, but are you anticipating being back next year?

[Whitney Rose]

I'm hoping to be back next year. Okay.

[Nick Viall]

What a humble we are too.

[Meredith Marks]

Thank you guys for listening. We thank Meredith for coming. Where can people follow you on that fun stuff? Bath bomb you want to promote?

[Whitney Rose]

Oh, yeah. Meredithmarks.com meredithmarkscaviar.com meredithmarks on Instagram meredith meredithmarks0 on Twitter. Oh, and I had like, some Blue sky impersonator that I can't get down off. Blue Sky. I'm the one that has, like, no followers and the fake one has all the followers.

[Meredith Marks]

I feel like Blue sky should allow you to take over those followers.

[Whitney Rose]

I just learned about it. Somebody, like, tweeted me and they're like, is this really you? I didn't even know anything. And I went on and I was like, oh, my God. Gosh. And then I discovered my whole cast was being not whole, but most. My cast was being in person. I sent a group text and they were like, what's Blue Sky? And I was like, you guys got to get on there. You have people impersonating you. Go figure it out.

[Nick Viall]

All right.

[Meredith Marks]

You should. You should take over those followers. All right, now we got to go. All right, bye, Meredith.

[Whitney Rose]

Bye now.

[Meredith Marks]

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[Unknown]

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[Meredith Marks]

Who'S ready to level up their mental fitness and win the seconds of the day? Well, at least that's my goal. Join me Mark Champagne on Behind a Human, a podcast where I dive into the stories and practices of extraordinary individuals, from billionaires to Olympians and cultural icons like Tony Hawk. Each episode unveils the pathways and the mental fitness strategies that propel them to the top. Now available on all major podcast platforms, here's Thriving Minds.