E859 Ask Nick - Is He Hot or Just 6’3’’

Summary

The Viall Files - Episode E859: "Ask Nick - Is He Hot or Just 6’3’’"

Release Date: December 23, 2024
Hosts: Nick Viall, Natalie Joy, and the Household

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Overview

In Episode E859 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall addresses listeners' real-life dating dilemmas, offering candid advice and insights drawn from his extensive experience in the dating world. This episode features three distinct listener queries, each unraveling complexities in modern relationships, family dynamics, and workplace interactions.

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1. Listener Call: Jane's Relationship Quandary

Timestamp: [01:18] – [46:27]

Jane's Story: Jane, a 29-year-old, reaches out seeking clarity on whether she is dating an FBOY (a man who engages in casual relationships without commitment) or her dream man. She describes her interactions with a 39-year-old man she met via an LDS (Latter-Day Saints) dating app. Despite his attractive profile and persistent pursuit since January, Jane finds herself grappling with insecurities and doubts about his intentions.

Key Points Discussed:

• Initial Connection: Jane and the man had a seemingly perfect first date where he expressed a desire to settle down. However, the second date introduced tension as he pushed for physical intimacy, leading Jane to question his genuine interest.

• Insecurities and Self-Perception: Jane reveals deep-seated insecurities stemming from her past struggles with weight loss, thyroid issues, and PCOS, which affect her confidence in the relationship.

• Red Flags Identified by Nick:

  • Inconsistent Behavior: The man's rapid escalation towards physical intimacy contrasted with his prior statements about settling down.
  • Manipulative Tendencies: Repeated comments suggesting Jane's lack of attraction despite her assurances indicate potential manipulation.
  • Superficial Attraction: Emphasis on his attractiveness and success over meaningful emotional connection.

Notable Quotes:

• Jane: "He keeps making these comments about how I'm not attracted to you." [05:52]
• Nick: "He is definitely a fuckboy. Every fuckboy eventually becomes somebody's dream man." [12:19]
• Jane: "I don't know if I like him or if it's just like, I am so flattered by the attention." [07:21]

Nick's Advice: Nick emphasizes the importance of self-worth and emotional connection over superficial attributes. He advises Jane to:

• Prioritize Emotional Needs: Seek relationships where emotional bonds are foundational rather than being solely physical.
• Build Confidence: Acknowledge and celebrate her achievements, such as her significant weight loss, to combat negative self-perception.
• Set Healthy Boundaries: Avoid playing games in relationships and communicate her needs clearly and confidently.
• Move On: Consider moving forward and investing in relationships where mutual respect and genuine connection exist.

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2. Listener Call: Sam's Family Conflict

Timestamp: [49:24] – [73:23]

Sam's Story: Sam, a 28-year-old single mother, shares her tumultuous experience with her extended family following a conflict with her cousin. After threatening to call the police during a volatile situation where her cousin was throwing objects while Sam had a newborn in the house, Sam faced ostracization from her family.

Key Points Discussed:

• Conflict Origin: Sam moved out of her cousin's home due to escalating tensions and her cousin's arrest for theft, leading to Sam's family cutting her off.

• Emotional Impact: Sam feels guilt over her son's lack of extended family and regrets not maintaining the relationship with her cousin.

• Family Dynamics: Her aunt blames Sam for threatening the police, siding with the cousin despite the latter's erratic behavior influenced by substance abuse.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam: "I have a really good support system right now, so that's really helpful." [63:51]
• Nick: "Let that guilt go. You will create the family that you and your child deserve." [60:02]
• Sam: "My son's only one day older than River, so..." [72:31]

Nick's Advice: Nick provides compassionate advice tailored to Sam's situation:

• Accept Family's Decision: Encourage Sam to understand that her family's stance may be influenced by her cousin's behavior and to prioritize her and her child's well-being.
• Focus on Positive Relationships: Emphasize building a support system with those who genuinely care, such as her mother, stepfather, and close friends.
• Continue Therapy: Advise ongoing therapy to work through feelings of guilt and to establish healthy boundaries.
• Reconnect When Ready: Suggest that Sam may consider reaching out to her cousin in the future when emotions have settled, but only if it feels safe and beneficial for her family.

Additional Insights: Nick underscores the importance of protecting oneself and one's child from toxic family dynamics. He encourages Sam to celebrate her strength in making difficult decisions for the safety and stability of her family.

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3. Listener Call: Lauren's Workplace Flirtation Issue

Timestamp: [75:11] – [95:19]

Lauren's Story: Lauren, a 25-year-old, seeks advice on managing a complicated relationship with a male colleague who is engaged but continues to flirt with her. Their professional collaboration necessitates ongoing communication, making it challenging for Lauren to navigate the personal boundaries required.

Key Points Discussed:

• Initial Attraction: Lauren experienced a passionate kiss with a coworker while both were emotionally vulnerable—she was recently out of a serious relationship, and he was newly single.

• Escalating Confusion: Despite initial signals of mutual attraction, the colleague declined to pursue a deeper relationship, citing work commitments. Over the ensuing months, his flirtatious behavior persisted, leading Lauren to question his intentions.

• Engagement Revelation: The colleague eventually disclosed his engagement, shocking Lauren as it contradicted his previous stance, leaving her feeling manipulated and used.

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren: "I'm just kind of like, what the f. Like, what are we doing here?" [90:54]
• Nick: "He is definitely not yet, like not hot. He's fine. He looks like a guy." [17:14]
• Lauren: "It doesn't matter." [35:24]

Nick's Advice: Nick provides a direct approach to resolving Lauren's dilemma:

• Establish Firm Boundaries: Advise Lauren to clearly communicate her discomfort and the inappropriateness of the flirtation, emphasizing the need to maintain a professional relationship.
• Cease Engagement: Encourage her to stop responding to flirtatious messages and interactions to prevent further emotional entanglement.
• Prioritize Self-Respect: Remind Lauren of her self-worth and the importance of not compromising her values or emotional well-being for fleeting attention.
• Seek Support: Recommend leaning on her support system and possibly involving HR if the behavior persists, ensuring a safe and respectful workplace environment.

Additional Insights: Nick highlights the psychological aspect of Lauren's struggle, pointing out how ego and the desire for validation can cloud judgment. He urges her to focus on her own needs and to detach emotionally from the situation to regain control and confidence.

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Closing Thoughts

Throughout Episode E859, Nick Viall adeptly navigates each listener's unique situation, offering a blend of empathy, practical advice, and candid assessments. The overarching themes emphasize the importance of self-worth, clear communication, and the courage to make difficult but necessary decisions for personal well-being and healthy relationships.

Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own relationship dynamics, recognize red flags, and prioritize meaningful connections over superficial attractions. The episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone grappling with similar challenges in the realms of dating, family, and workplace interactions.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, introductory segments, and non-content portions to focus solely on the valuable discussions and advice provided during the episode.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Sam]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

How's it going?

[Jane]

Good. My Name's Jane. I'm 29 years old, and I'm wondering if I'm dating an FBOY or my dream man.

[Nick]

Okay, and when you say dating, what do you mean?

[Jane]

Okay? That's a good question. Dating, as in, like, we've gone on a couple dates, but it's weird because we've been chatting since, like, January of this year, but we only just barely met, like, last week, actually.

[Nick]

Okay. All right.

[Jane]

So I know we're not, like, official, but that's where we're at.

[Nick]

Have you hooked up?

[Jane]

Well, so my question. So we went on it one day and it was, like, perfect, wonderful. He said he's ready to, like, settle down. And then the second day, he was trying to, like, we started kissing and, like, he was trying to lead it to more things, but I just kind of, like, freaked out because I have had, like, a crush on him for so long, and I didn't want it to just be like, a hookup thing.

[Nick]

Okay, so what do you mean you freaked out?

[Jane]

Can give a little bit of context.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Jane]

Okay. So we met on an LDS dating app. And so I know you're, like, familiar with, like, Christian culture and, like, strict beliefs and backgrounds and stuff, correct?

[Nick]

Yeah. And for those of you. For the people don't know. You mean like Mormon. The Mormon Latter Day Saints. Yeah. Latter Day Saints for lds.

[Jane]

Yeah. Yeah. So we met on an LDS dating app in January. And he just is, like, super successful world traveler, like, attractive, out of my league. And I just barely started dating in January. I'm 29. I had lost, like, £100 last year. So there's a lot going into this, like, as far as, like, insecurities and just, like, not being used to, like, that type of attention, especially from someone like that. And so anyway, we went on, like, our first date. We had tried to meet up a bunch of times. He, like, followed me on Instagram in January, and he would, like, chime in every once in a while, commenting on, like, stories and stuff. And honestly, like, I turned my Instagram into, like, a game with my friends where we were trying to see, like, when he would, like, respond or, like, what I could post to make him respond and stuff. And then he set up a date for in September when he finally, like, moved to Utah because he wasn't living here. And then I canceled on him, like, 20 minutes before because I had a family emergency. So I was expecting to, like, never hear from him again. But then he kept following up, trying to schedule things. And I just, like, have never been pursued like that either. I feel like it's hard to find someone who's, like, willing to, like, just keep following up, keep following up. So I thought that he was, like, in it for, like, a relationship or something like that. So we have our date. I was so nervous. I thought he was gonna, like, hate me or think I was, like, catfishing him or something because he's seriously, like, so attractive, so successful, all the things, all the check boxes. But it was just, like, so natural. Like, the moment I saw him, it sounds so cheesy, but I just was just super stoked because felt like we had a connection. He drops me off and he texts me within, like, five minutes of me walking in the door. Which also, like, I didn't even have time to, like, wonder if he was interested. I was just super stoked again. The next day, he asked me to do something, but I didn't want to, like, come off as desperate. I think I've been playing too many games maybe. And so I was like, I'm busy tonight. So then he asked me out for Sunday, which was the next night, and he had just bought a house. So he's like, do you want to come see my new house? And so I was like, sure. So I go to his house, and he gives me the house tour. And then I started kissing and then, like, escalating things. And then I just being the awkward person that I am, I just was like, not. I don't know, Like, I couldn't, like, get into it because I just, like, felt so insecure, and it just, like, felt like a dream. And it was just so much buildup and all this stuff. And so he just kept making so many comments about, like, you're obviously not attracted to me. And I was like, no, I am. And I was like, you must not like the way I kiss or something, because you keep making these comments about how I'm not attracted to you. And then he was pointing.

[Nick]

Who's making comments? Who's speaking to who here?

[Jane]

Okay. So he was telling me. He was like, you're not into this. And he was like, you're not into me. You're not attracted to me.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Jane]

Saying things like that.

[Nick]

Did he say why he felt that way?

[Jane]

Because I wasn't, like, physically.

[Nick]

Because you didn't want to hook up?

[Jane]

Yeah, and I didn't. I asked him, I was like, do you want me to, like, moan your name or something? Like, what are you expecting from me right now? And I was telling him, like, I need, like, an emotional connection before I'm ready to, like. I don't know. Like, it just felt like a lot for, like.

[Nick]

So wait, did you say to that to him? Hey, I'm just like, you know, I don't. I need an emotional connection before I get physical to someone. You did say that?

[Jane]

Yeah, I said that, like three times.

[Nick]

Three times. What was his response? Yeah, to all three times.

[Jane]

He just would be like. Because I would say, I just need an emotional connection, blah, blah. Then he would, like, kiss me again. And then he would be like, you're obviously not attracted to me. And I. And then this is when I said, like, well, maybe you're not attracted to me. Maybe you don't like the way I kiss or like the way I do things. And then he said, like, no, obviously, I think you're so hot. I'm attracted to you. I'm this. And then he. This is like, where it's tmi. But he, like, kept pointing to his boner. And it's like, obviously, like, I'm attracted to you. This is a good sign. This is weird. I don't. I don't know.

[Nick]

Anyway, how old is he?

[Jane]

He's 39.

[Nick]

Okay. I would have believed you. I. You know, with the way you're describing, I thought you're going to say 25.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And have you heard from him since?

[Jane]

So he told me to text him when I got home. And so I Did. And I was like, made it home. I, like, sent him a list because I'm a weird person, but I was like, one, made it home safe. Two, your new home is like, so lovely. And then three, I was like, I had a really great time with you, contrary to what you think. And then he responded and he was like, thanks so much for coming. Great to see you. And then he said, if you say so. With like a winky face or something. And so I just said like, haha, I don't know. That was it. And then the next day, he didn't text me. Then the day after that, he. The next day he had like, posted on his Instagram story that he was having this, like, big house party. He's pretty much like the Great Gatsby in our city. I feel like that's why I'm so intimidated by him. And I'm like, I don't even know if I like him or if it's just like, I just am so flattered by, like, the attention he has given me, like, since January. And so he posted about this big party that he's having. And then the next day he messaged me on Instagram, which was weird because for like, so long we had just been communicating on Instagram. But then, like, when he took me out, we started texting, right? And then so he messaged me on Instagram like the Tuesday after and was like, hey, how are you? And then he sent me like a screenshot of the invite to his party. And then he said, come to my party. Smiley face. And so I, being the toxic human that I am, said, I have plans Friday. I don't think I'll be able to come, but, like, I'm doing well. How are you? So we chatted for a second, and then he said, okay, well, come if you can. And so anyway, my friend and I ended up going, and there were a ton of people.

[Nick]

You ended up going?

[Jane]

Yes.

[Nick]

What was your excuse to him?

[Jane]

I didn't tell him that I was going. I just showed up. But because I knew there were gonna be so many people.

[Nick]

Okay. Did he not notice that you were there?

[Jane]

He. So he ended up seeing me and he came up to me. Like, when he saw me, he looked really excited. And so I was like, okay, this is great. Like, he's not go see me after this past Sunday. And so he looks excited. He comes up to me and gives me a hug and says, thank you so much for coming. But at the same time, like, this whole thing has felt like a movie surreal. Then at the same time, this, like, super beautiful woman comes up to him, grabs his arm, pulls him away. And then they were chatting for, like, two or three minutes. And so my friend and I, like, kind of stood in that same area, but, like, moved a little bit because I was like, maybe he'll come back and say something. But then he never did. But then we just left. So I was there for maybe 12 minutes. And then since then, haven't heard from him.

[Nick]

You haven't heard from him since?

[Jane]

No.

[Nick]

Nope. When was the party?

[Jane]

Oh, it was this past Friday.

[Nick]

So you showed up at his party for 12 minutes. He said hi, some other woman pulled him away, you left abruptly, and you never heard from him again?

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yep. Okay.

[Jane]

Okay. So, like, half of my friends think, like, he's just obviously a player. He's older, and, like, whatever. They felt like his. When he was like, you're not attracted to me. You're not attracted to me. It was, like, maybe manipulative or something. But then the other half of my friends are like, you tried to play at pool for so long, and you, like, maybe bruised his ego. And then you showed up to his party. You didn't tell him you were coming. And I have never, like. I just have such a fear of rejection, which I know is common for everyone, but I have never. Well, since January, I have, like, messaged him first once ever. And then, like, since last Sunday, I haven't, like, reached out to him because I don't know. Like, I just. It just feels stupid that he would be interested and maybe you will agree with me, but I'm just curious to know.

[Nick]

What do you mean stupid that he would be interested?

[Jane]

I don't know. I just. I think I have just, like. Well, I know I have, like, a lot of insecurities about, like, my physical appearance and things like that and ever. Like, he just. Not that everyone's as important as the way they look, but he's super attractive and, like, successful. Like, I don't know, just, like, all those things. So it's just like, why would he.

[Nick]

What you mentioned. You said earlier, he's checking all the boxes. How many. What are. How many boxes are on this list? Because you've only said hot and successful multiple times.

[Jane]

That's true. Well, so when we went on our first date, he had sounded like he was kind of had, like, the same values as far as, like, looking for a family, like, getting ready to settle down. And then, like, we share the same religion, so, like, all those kinds of checkboxes, and he's like, super fun, like, travels all the time, does like interesting things. And then like also the fact that like for so long he had been pursuing me. But I do realize I sounded shallow as freak when I said he's super successful and attractive.

[Nick]

But so, I mean, listen, to answer your question, are you dating a fuck boy or your dream man? It doesn't sound like you're dating anymore, so there's that.

[Jane]

Yes.

[Nick]

And yeah, he definitely sounds like a fuckboy. Every fuckboy eventually becomes somebody's dream man. The way you're going about it is more about like trapping a fuckboy though, rather than meeting your dream man. So I think both in terms of the feedback you're getting from friends, I think both can be true. The Great Gatsby of it all, the comment about his boner, the fact that you had to say three times, you're looking for a mutual connection and you seem to keep insistingly trying to hook up with you, inviting you, him to your house on the second date. You know, these all give fuck boy energy, you know? And then again, like, he's not going to stop being a fuckboy until he meets someone who makes it worth his while. Kind of until he meets his equals, so to speak, you don't see yourself as his equal, which is a problem for you. Your dream man is not going to be someone that you think internally he's too good for me. Okay? That's not your dream man. That's a good lay. It's a good story. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's a good time. That's not your dream man. You won't feel good about that. They won't feel good about that. No one wants to be with someone who thinks they're not good enough for them, you know? And eventually, as exciting as it is to be with someone that you fantasize about being with and never imagined you could be with, if you still continue to feel that way, you're going to feel less than in the relationship that you're in. Right? And that's not why we're in relationship is to constantly feel like, oh my God, is this person going to leave me? Why are they dating me? Like, you don't date people to constantly question yourself and to instigate your insecurities, you know? So, yeah, a lot of the feedback is more based off around like, I think it's, you know, like, I imagine when this first started, it was a very exciting. You had a crush on this guy and got to talk to your friends and he pursued you and Yada, yada, yada. But at some point, you got to stop being, you know, using your language to describe yourself, this kind of toxic, insecure person. And you either have to say, there's a reason why this person reached out to me. You mentioned you lost a hundred pounds. You know, so I'm guessing your insecurities come from, you know, some body image issues. But you did lose a hundred pounds. I'm assuming you feel good about that. You look great to me. You know, like, so at what point did you give yourself the credit for all the work you did to get in the shape that you wanted to be? Or are you still looking in the mirror and seeing the girl, the woman who hasn't lost the £100?

[Jane]

Yeah, no, I definitely still see. See myself as the way I was before, like, 100%. Okay, maybe not 100%, because at least I can, like, get on the dating apps and meet people and stuff. But every time, like, I start going out with the same person several times or whatever, I just get in my head and I'm just like, why? Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, I hate to sound like such a shallow person, but I feel like so much of my life, I was just always so concerned about, like, is someone judging me? Is someone this, you know, and so.

[Nick]

Like, we're all judging.

[Jane]

I just can't like them.

[Nick]

Yeah, you can't fathom what?

[Jane]

I don't know. Just, like, why someone who, like, just a year ago would be. I don't know, there's so many, like, mental things that go on with it. Because it's like, why would someone be interested in me where it's just, like, so new? Maybe. I don't know.

[Nick]

I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure. Why? What do you mean? Why would someone be interested? What do you mean? Finish the thought.

[Jane]

Like, I feel confident, okay? I feel confident in, like, the other areas of my life, like my career, who I am as a friend and family member.

[Nick]

Okay?

[Jane]

And so, like, I know I have those things going for me, but when I'm dating someone who, like, I'm attracted to, I just don't get why they would be attracted to me. And I think that kind of manifested last Sunday.

[Nick]

Is this guy on Instagram?

[Jane]

He is, but he's private. But you're gonna.

[Nick]

You're gonna send Justin some pictures of this guy. I want to see who this guy looks like.

[Jane]

Like, the grid.

[Nick]

This is the guy you're losing your marbles over. He's attractive. I mean, he's fine looking. How tall is he?

[Jane]

He's 6 3.

[Lauren]

Let me see if there's another image.

[Nick]

He is definitely not yet, like not hot. He's fine. He looks like a guy. I mean, he's fine. I'm not, I don't, I'm not trying to talk about this guy. He looks like a guy. It looks like a guy.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Nick]

And if he wasn't six three, you know, fair. And it sounds like, you know, the whole like, you know, he's an entertainer, you know, like the gets, you know, like, listen, it's probably, he's, I'm. He sounds like very charismatic and charming and yada, yada, yada. Sounds like he lives or projects at least a fun and exciting life that obviously makes him attractive. This guy's worked very hard on how people see him for sure. So I get the appeal. I'm not trying to talk shit, but like, listen. Yeah. I mean, also at the same time, this type of person should not be making. You should not be like going around thinking to yourself, I can't believe this guy's into me. That's crazy.

[Sam]

Okay?

[Nick]

And I'd love for you to work on that, you know, well, what's the point of working so hard on yourself? I mean, what, what did it take for you to lose 100 pounds? I, I imagine a lot of work and dedication and.

[Jane]

Yeah, yes, lots of that.

[Nick]

Have you struggled with your weight or like, what was the reasoning for what you want? Like a hundred pounds is a lot of weight. What, what made you want to do that?

[Jane]

Yeah, well, I mean, I always did. I've always had, I'm not like making excuses or anything, but like I've had like pcos and like thyroid issues. So I like found.

[Nick]

No, I understand that like a good, It's a very valid reason.

[Jane]

I'm a self deprecating human. If you can't tell, I don't know.

[Nick]

If you're self deprecated. It's a. I think you're highly critical of yourself and you are uncomfortable with giving yourself credit. That's not the same as being self deprecating.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Nick]

Yeah, you're, you're definitely selling yourself short. So you have a thyroid issue and you're still able to. Did you. And then you just out of curiosity, have you lost £100 in a way that you feel like, is it. Did you go about it in a healthy way?

[Jane]

Yeah. Well, actually, no. I said yes, but no. I had to enter therapy because it got to a point where it was pretty extreme, where I'D go like, I'm just oversharing everything right now. But I'd go, like, days without eating. Okay, that's not good stuff. Because once it. So once it started impacting how tired I was all the time and, like, passing out and stuff, then when you.

[Nick]

When you were, like, when you. Were you eating healthy or did you have unhealthy eating habits, or was it just as a result of the thyroid condition that you have that you struggled with your weight?

[Jane]

So it was like thyroid and pcos.

[Nick]

So I'm not familiar with pcos.

[Jane]

Basically, like, it's polycystic ovarian syndrome. So it just. It's pretty common in women. It makes it like. One of the side effects is, like, it's very hard to stay at a healthy weight. Like, you basically have to just eat fruits and vegetables to just, like, stay. Like, you're not supposed to eat any carbs. Like, if you do, then you gain weight. And so that's just kind of what happened to me. And then in addition to the thyroid issues. So. Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, I'm sorry you have to deal with that. It's not. I'm obviously probably not fun. Do you feel like you've addressed some of these. These issues in therapy? Are you. Are you back to being. Having more healthy habits?

[Jane]

Yeah, it's taking time, but, like, I'm not a healthy weight right now. Like, not too light or, like, too heavy, you know, so right now things are good in that area.

[Nick]

You look great to me. Not that my opinion really matters, but I think you're a very beautiful person. My guess is some of the reason you're having a hard time seeing the person you are now in the mirror is because probably of all the way you've gone about getting to where you are, and it doesn't feel like a permanent solution. It feels like a temporary solution. So it feels a bit fraudulent. I'm guessing, internally, in terms of how you are showing yourself to be. You know, I'm guessing you might have concerns about gaining some of that weight back, given the conditions you have to deal with and given how your approach to lose some of this weight has been, by your own admission, a bit unhealthy. You know, so I. I'm guessing where that's where some of that comes from.

[Jane]

Yeah, that'd be fair.

[Nick]

Do you feel like therapy has been beneficial in this. In this area?

[Jane]

Yeah, definitely, yes, for sure.

[Nick]

Do you feel like you have your. These health conditions under control now?

[Jane]

Mm, yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Jane]

Yeah, I feel like it's been long enough. Like, it's been, like, a year of, like, maintaining, and so, like, I can. I don't know. I. I have enough, like, control issues that I don't think I'll let it slip up again. But.

[Nick]

But as of now. So as. As. As today stands, you feel like you. You have some fairly healthy hab. Eating habits.

[Jane]

Mm.

[Nick]

Okay. Okay, that's good. All right, well, so, yeah, I mean, listen, I. I think ob. Emotionally, you're very vulnerable. Mentally, you're very vulnerable right now. And so I think you need to protect that, and you need to protect yourself from being triggered, giving your vulnerability. Right? You got to protect yourself from the people who make you feel less than. Part of that responsibility is yours. You know, like, it's like, that's not this guy's fault for the way you see yourself around him, per se, but you. You. You have to challenge yourself to work on your internal dialogue. What do you want with this guy?

[Jane]

I don't know. I. And I listen to your podcast all the time. I always joke that, like, I should have been, like, a missionary or something with the amount of people I've gotten, like, in on this podcast, you know, I don't know, but point of me saying that is, like, you talk about, like, ego and stuff, and so. And I don't know him well enough to know if I like him.

[Nick]

I love that honesty. That's good honesty. That's. That's the probably the truth, right?

[Jane]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to tell him. Like, when things were happening that day, I was like. I said to him, like, several times. I was like, I only met you twice. I. I'm just not, like. I'm just. I have no judgment toward anyone who is like that, but I just. I'm just not that girl. I can't be like, I just. I'm too shy. I'm too, like. I need, like, that trust and foundation before, like, too much can happen physically.

[Nick]

I want you to be able to say that out loud without feeling like you're apologizing at the same time. You know what I'm. Do you get what I'm saying, though?

[Jane]

Yeah, because I'm like.

[Nick]

I want you to say that proudly. It's like, hey, listen, I'm not. I'm not here to judge anyone else who makes different choices for. For themselves or their sex life, but I am someone who really wants and needs an emotional connection before I get to get intimate with anyone, you know? And that's just what I prefer. I prefer that because that allows me to, you know, not have, you know, partners that ultimately I realize I don't even like them as people. I get in my head after, you know, I emotionally connect with men that I don't even know after I hook up with them. It's created a lot of unnecessarily emotional distress for me. I've learned as a younger person. And so I've just decided for myself that, like, at 29 years old, like, that's what I need. Other people might be different, but that's what I need. And I'm glad that I feel that way because it's what's best for me. And it's. It's. It's helped me reduce a lot of emotional anguish and, you know, confusion in my dating life. And I, you know, and I want you to say it like that, you know, confidently, you know, knowing that you're making the right decision for yourself. Proud, almost. Even like. Like, when I say it, the way I'm saying it, I'm almost saying it's so proudly that you're also saying, well, I. I'm not trying to judge other people if they choose differently from me, you know, Like, I am. Someone throughout my life have been accused of being cocky, right? And I've always been like, let's say everything, cocky and confident, you know, But I do think, you know, I'm sure at times I have, you know, come across or been cocky in areas where I could have, like, maybe been a little bit more humble. But that being said, I do think a lot of people, they just see it as cocky because they don't have the same values as you, and they might even admire the same values as you, and maybe they're just too weak to have, you know, the same. Make the same choices or just. It's just your confidence in yourself. They. They see it as cocky because they don't have the same confidence. Right. And so here you are, like, well, you know, it's just like. Well, I just. You know what I'm saying? Like, I want you to be so confident in your choice, to want an emotional connection that the people who are out there participating in hookup culture, I want them to almost feel judged by your confidence. Does that make sense? Yeah, because it's like, you know, I want you to feel like you have to be like, listen, I'm not judging you if you don't want to make the same choices. This is just for me. And I'm so confident in my choices because, you know, what's my point is, is, like, there are people out there who may want to have, like, like you, you have a problem with rejection, as you have acknowledged. Right. And so there's a lot of people out there hooking up with men or hooking up with people that they ultimately may not want to hook up with in that moment, because what they, they just want them to be, they want to be liked, they want to be accepted. They're worried that if they don't put out, they're going to get rejected or, you know, they'll move on. They don't want to get rejected, so they hook up with the person even though deep down it's not what they really want kind of thing. Right. And it's caused them emotional anguish and sadness and rejection in the long run, you know, and so, but they can't get to that point where they're confident in their choice. So they keep hooking up with these people that deep down they don't really want to hook up with because they still haven't been able to find that confidence in that decision to want an established emotional connection. The good news is, is you have like, you, you at least have been able to identify what you want and what you need, and you've, you are able to communicate that I want you to go a step further and be confident in that choice, you know, and so when you say it, I don't want you to sound like you're apologizing. Do you get what I'm saying, though? You probably don't even realize when you're, like, when you listen to this episode back, you'll, you'll get. What I'm saying is almost as this, you know, it's just like, well, you know, I just, I want an emotional connection and I, I, it's not like, you know, it's like you're trying to explain yourself rather than just stating a fact. And the fact is, this is what you need.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, and you have every right to feel that way and you're not proud because you're better than someone else. It's like me saying, you know, I've never been a sucker for peer pressure, for taking shots. Yeah, I, I, I didn't, I don't feel better than someone who is. I'm just, I'm more proud of the fact that I'm not going to feel like to the next day.

[Jane]

No, totally. Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. So I want you to be cognizant of the people you're investing in and spending time with and how they're making you feel okay and ex. And I think when you Feel excited about something. I think you should take a step back and ask yourself, is the excitement around does he like me and would he reject me? You know, type of thing? Or is it excitement about, you know, the possibility of meeting, of connecting with someone and getting to know someone and things like that, you know?

[Jane]

Yeah, totally.

[Nick]

What do you. What are you going to do with this, guys? What do you think?

[Jane]

What do you think? Should I. Because I'm like. I mean, I have like the one friend group who's like, no, he just like, I don't know, it just feels weird that someone would, like, talk to me for 11 months and maybe that's just not okay.

[Nick]

So, like, like, let's be clear. Like, guys, especially, like, this guy loves a challenge, loves a chase, loves an adventure, loves someone who plays hard to get, right? He is probably used to a lot of people who don't play hard to get, where his appearance as the Great Gatsby, as you say, and his exciting life, as you say, or just the fact that he is 6:3 has got him a lot of easy lays, you know, it just, it, it just has. And so for a guy who's probably used to getting a lot of easy lays, loves it when it's not easy, loves a challenge. And you, with your game playing, have, have provided that challenge. Listen, we all play games, but you have to also be in control. And the. It's like you're playing games, but you're not in control. You know, it's almost as if you kind of guessed right, you know, accidentally. But you're still, you're still constantly fixated on how he feels about you. And when you're doing that, you're definitely not in control. And, and like, you're so close because, you know, like, you have, in this conversation, you have said things like, I don't even know if I like him. Healthy admission. You know, that's, that's, that's the truth. The truth is I don't, you know, I really know this guy. I, you know, I've been talking to him sporadically for a year, but it's really just all about game playing and chasing and back and forth. And like, I don't, I know I, I know what I, I know what this guy has shown people. I know the percept. I know his reputation, you know, I know how he looks. I know his job, but I don't really know him, you know, or anything about him. I don't know how he treats women behind closed doors. I don't even know what he Thinks of women, you know, yada, yada. I don't know, you know, you don't really know anything other than the fact that he grew up in the same religion that you grew up in. You don't even know how, you know, devout his life is or, you know, just what, what beliefs he has that may or may not differ from his religion or, you know, you know, nothing about this guy, but. And instead of acknowledging yourself, I don't know anything about this guy, and just feel like, yeah, he's all, he's cute, you know, he's rich, whatever, he's got some money, and those are all, you know. And you say it like the way you told me this story. It's just like, I mean, he has everything. He's my dream guy, you know, he's hot and he's got a. And he's successful. And you were talking to me as if, like, I don't know, you met Jesus, you know, like, fair, like, if this man rejects you, you will never had, never have another chance at something so incredible again. And then, and then, like, you know, three minutes later, after you kept talking, you're like, I don't even know if I like him. But you were so caught up in the fantasy of, you were caught up in the pursuit of this guy. You know, the fantasy of, of, you know, listen, it's fun to have a cr. Like it, like, it is very exciting to have a crush on someone and to be able to date your crush, that's exciting. But you have to be able to quickly adapt, so to speak. You have to quickly, you know, act like you belong. Because then it just become, it goes from exciting to like, making you feel in, you know, small. It's okay to acknowledge the fun you're having chasing your crush, but if you can't get on their level in your mind, then they're always going to make you feel small and less than. And that's not the type of feeling you're trying to create for a relationship or at all. As far as this guy, I think probably not your guy, definitely, probably a fuckboy. And not to take anything away. I'm sure he thinks you're beautiful. Obviously, he clearly thinks you're hot. No guy is going to pay that much attention to a girl if he doesn't think she's hot. And so it's pretty simple. Most guys who thinks a girl is hot that he, he definitely would want to have sex with her. And so, you know, he is definitely interested in having sex with you. He's made that very clear. He definitely would like to see you naked. How he feels about you after that. He doesn't even know the answer, you know, not even thinking like that. He's just more like. He's not even thinking. He's not even saying, I just want to see her naked. It's just. That's just how his brain works. Yeah, but I do think you being unavailable has kept him interested, for sure. But I don't feel like you're capable of being yourself around this guy.

[Jane]

Yeah, that's fair. Per example of when my friends were like, you're just like. You played the game too long. Because I. I do realize that he's probably used to, like, women doing whatever he wants or whatever. I mean, I even saw that, like, at his party, like, they're clamoring for his attention, you know, like, whatever. But I just feel like you'd find this funny about the height, but he was telling me how he was, like, 6:3 from a young age. And I've always been attracted to tall guys, obviously, but I was like, oh, like, did that make life hard for you? Or whatever? And he was just, like, so shook by that because he's like, no, like, my height has, like, made things great for me. So that just, like, goes into.

[Nick]

He's had one of the greatest privileges of mankind. I'm being serious. And the fact that he's been tall his whole life means that he's. He's. He's always been confident. People have always treated him a little differently, his peers. He's always felt superior. He has more confidence than he. Than he deserves to have. I guarantee it. Right. Which means deep down there, there, he. This man has some insecurities. And a lot of these insecurities, I'm guessing, are rooted from probably the fact that, like, you know, that's why he throws all these parties. You know, it's for validation. It's to keep himself feeling special.

[Jane]

Yeah, I'm not.

[Nick]

And I'm sure he's a swell, fine guy. Whatever, you know, Listen, what do I think you should do with this guy? I. I think, honestly, you should mentally move on. I'm sure he will reach out again. If he says, hey, would you like to go on? Stop. Just stop playing games with him. That's my advice with this guy. If he asks you out, just be like, hey, I think it's. I think it's a huge red flag. You had to tell this guy multiple times that you're looking for an emotional connection. And he kept trying to hook up with You. Okay, that tells me, one, he's not necessarily all that listed in respecting you. And two, it really tells me he really just wants to see you naked.

[Jane]

Okay. And I. I will say, like, I don't know how far he wanted to take things. I don't know. I. Maybe I'm. I don't know.

[Nick]

He would have had sex with me, but. Yes, yes.

[Sam]

Okay.

[Nick]

But I think it's. It's a thing. It's safe to assume. I mean, what. What would have made you feel better if you just wanted a blowjob? Like what? Like, I don't. It does. Is it really matter? I don't know.

[Jane]

It doesn't matter.

[Nick]

I don't know, but I think. I guess, you know, there were some. If you go out with them, you could just be honest with them. Hey, listen, man, to be honest, I've always kind of had a crush on you. I think you're an early attractive guy, but, you know, I also kind of think you're a bit of a boy. And, you know, the other night when I came over, you gave me a lot of red flags because, you know, I told you I wanted a mutual connection, but, like, you know, you could say it, like, gently, you know, and see how he responds to that. If he's just like, well, I'm really sorry I made you feel that way. I. I see what you're saying, and I'm. I'm really, you know, thanks for letting me know. That would be a green flag if he gets ultra defensive and then tries to somehow blame you or point out something you did wrong. Run. You know, But I think more than anything, just be honest about how you feel. And I know that's hard because that required, you know, the possibility of rejection. Just be like, I like it. If you like me, then let's see where it goes. But I don't know if you're actually interested in a relationship right now. I think you're interested in throwing parties and being the center of attention. Men like him love to get called out on his. You know, you canceling 20 minutes before the date, it didn't make him like you less. It made him like you more. Not necess. And I don't think you should keep doing that because he didn't like you. He liked what you did, but you get what I'm saying, you know? But you canceling him 20 minutes in advance gives him the idea that, like, you have important things going on, that you value your time, that you don't drop anything just for him. And he is Used to people doing that for him. So when he finds people who don't, that. That is a signal to him that you're worth his time, that you might be. You might stand out as unique. The truth is, it's not true because you're just playing this game and you're just kind of. But I'd love for you to be that person he thinks you might be. And it really just comes from your inside.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Maybe go on a date with a couple of ugly men for a while, really gas you up. I mean, how do we. How are we going to get your confidence up? You know, I'd love for you to work on that.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Nick]

Do you not have people telling you you're beautiful on a regular basis?

[Jane]

I. Yeah. Like, people are so nice to me, but I just can't. Like, I don't know. That's why I'm therapy.

[Nick]

Okay, well, keep doing that. Keep working on that. I mean, but you got. You're gonna have to address that. You're gonna have to work through that.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Who are you trying to be? You know, like, the most beautiful person in the world. Like, what is he? Like, when is enough gonna be enough for you? The good question, you know, do you object? Do you think you're ugly?

[Jane]

Like, yeah, be real.

[Nick]

Like, be real. You look in the mirror. Like, do you?

[Jane]

No. Yeah, I like.

[Nick]

But if you really thought you were ugly, then you wouldn't even have you. You. You wouldn't even try to, to go after someone like him.

[Jane]

Well, that's why I'm saying, like, I was literally, like, I was telling my friends, like, I'm doing it for the plot. Like, I'm going for the plot because he's probably gonna see me and he's gonna think I was catfishing him on Instagram or something.

[Nick]

I want you to be more confident in yourself. I also want you to be realistic as well. You know, there's a balance between, you know, having a healthy amount of confidence, knowing your worth, you know, knowing that you're an attractive person who deserves to be with someone that you also find attractive. But it doesn't mean, like, hey, I'm. I'm a queen. I'm beautiful. I deserve a guy who looks like Chris Hemsworth. Like, I don't know, maybe not, I don't know, you know, for. Right. So you got to find the balance. Like, you're, you're. You're treating this guy like he's Chris fucking Hemsworth. He's clearly not. He's a swell looking guy, but, like, he's not out of your league. And if he doesn't like you, who gives a fuck? He's just one guy.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And maybe stop going after super tall men because you are you. I will say someone with a lack of confidence that you have dating men who have been tall their whole life is probably the worst person for you to date because you are dating someone. Like this guy has more confidence than he deserves and you have less confidence than you should have. And that is not a good combination for someone like you.

[Jane]

Yeah, I think, yeah. Honestly, every guy I've ever dated has been tall. And maybe, maybe that's the problem.

[Nick]

Honestly, there's, I think there it is the problem. Well, part of the, part of the problem is you need to have a better idea of who you are and you need to work on your confidence. And you, it starts with the language you use in your head. You got to stop talking bad about yourself in your head. You got to stop being the butt of your own jokes with your friends. You got to stop being self deprecating. It's not even self deprecating. You're just mean to yourself. Self deprecating is like what people who like have too much confidence should start using to, you know, so that they don't sound like a cocky asshole all the time. You know, this guy who I'm guessing walks around never pointing out his flaws because he's probably too insecure deep down to actually point them out, could probably use some self deprecating humor, I'm guessing with some of his, I'm sure many bad habits. And then that would probably land a lot of bit better because people would be caught off guard by a guy who's generally always like, you know, portraying this like very put together, classy guy. And it's just like, oh, it would humanize a guy who's so afraid to be human around people. You're like the opposite end of the spectrum. You know, you'd never give yourself enough for credit. And you're constantly putting yourself down around people who are like, why do you, you know, why are you doing that? Like, you need to like be that. You know, you need to work on being the girl or the woman who like talks about herself in a much more positive way. So I would love for you to ask your friends and challenge yourself to stop belittling yourself, stop being the butt of your own jokes, stop pointing out your flaws to your friends in public because you're only doing that not to be self deprecating. You're trying to beat them to the punch. You're so insecure about what people might think about you, you would rather put it out in public and let people know that it's. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's all the reason why. That's the only reason why you're doing it. It's a defense mechanism.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So work on that and start. Start. Start dating some guys that are 5 10, 5 11. How tall are you?

[Jane]

I'm 5.

[Nick]

5, 5, 5, 10. That's, that's. That's plenty tall for you. Guys who are 63 who've been 60 their whole life have way too much confidence in themselves. And like, you're not there yet. You should be. And now when I say you're not there yet, I am not talking about your physical appearance. I am talking about your belief in yourself be triggered. Yeah. Okay. Is this making sense, though?

[Jane]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick]

You're. You're wasting this precious time. You're 29 years old. This is a great age for you. You know, you should be having fun and, And. And wasting your energy. You. Spending your energy on a variety of different men and men who make you feel good about yourself. And. And the reason why this guy can call you sexy and beautiful and you don't feel good about yourself is because you have told yourself over and over you don't deserve him. And deep down, he probably really is a boy. And your. Your gut's telling you that, and he's acting like a boy, and you are not willing to see that he's a boy because yourself. This is my dream man. I can't believe he likes me. So you're. You're looking past all the obvious red flags for the plot, so to speak.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Nick]

You know, but it's costing you. It's. It's really putting you down emotionally. It's really making you feel. It's setting yourself up for disappointment. Okay.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, you. You're. You're way too good looking to feel this way about yourself.

[Jane]

You're way too kind. Thank you.

[Nick]

I'm. I'm. No one's ever called me too kind in my life. I've never been too kind. That's not my. It's not in my nature, so I just. I'm just keeping it real, you know? Again, I'm not saying you can get any man you want. You can. No one can. You know, but you can get someone you deserve and makes you feel good about yourself and appreciates you and doesn't play games. And. And when you say I don't really Know you yet. I feel more comfortable. Someone I want to build a connection with. They'll respect you for it. Yeah. They still may be like, oh, well, okay, well, I definitely want to see you naked, but I get it. You know, they're not going to want to make you feel bad. They're not going to ignore it. They're not going to point to their boner. Is. Is the validation you should be thankful for receiving when you ask if you're even attracted to me. Like, come on. You know what I'm saying? Like, this isn't your guy, you know? Okay. He wanted his boner to make you feel beautiful. I mean, come on.

[Jane]

My sister was like, you have to specifically say that. Because she's like, I want to know what he thinks about that. She's like, that is weird.

[Nick]

That's super weird.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Nick]

But that's what. That's what you get from a guy who's been 63 his whole life.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Anyways, we gotta go. Hopefully this was helpful.

[Jane]

Yes.

[Nick]

Keep investing in therapy. Keep those healthy habits going. Work on how you see yourself. Put yourself in positions and ask yourself, why do I like you being triggered? You feeling the spark, you feeling excitement are all possible triggers. They're also possible red flags of actually making you feel worse about yourself. You know, you love the validation, the chance. We all. And we all do. But, like, just be mindful of that. And. And try dating men under six foot for a minute. I'm serious. I really think that's. I think your future man is under six foot. He's five. He's between five ten, and six foot.

[Jane]

Shoot. Okay.

[Nick]

Is that so terrible? You're five five.

[Jane]

No, it's not. It's not so terrible.

[Nick]

Natalie's five. I'm four inches taller than Natalie. I'm six two.

[Jane]

Okay. Okay, So I think you're right.

[Nick]

Okay. Yeah. I just. I think it'll go a long way, but you have to stop. You also have to stop chasing men because they drive fast cars or they have money, because that is. That's fair. That doesn't. In the long run, that doesn't make you feel good about yourself. It makes you feel worse.

[Jane]

Okay. I needed this.

[Nick]

Stop. Try. Stop trying to be someone's arm candy and try to be someone's partner.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Nick]

All right.

[Jane]

Wow. Okay.

[Nick]

All right.

[Jane]

Thank you. I really quick. Can I just say, very grateful for the show. Book the team. Love.

[Nick]

Love all. Thank you very much. Thanks for advocating for the show and getting people to listen. Please follow up with us always. No, seriously, I'm invested in your relationship story. So I, I want to see you see this through and I want to see you develop a lot healthier habits because you're only 29. He's some good years you got. Stop wasting them on, on selling yourself short, putting yourself down and on average tall men. Okay. All right.

[Jane]

All right. Thank you so much.

[Nick]

All right, take care.

[Jane]

Okay, see you guys. All right.

[Nick]

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[Sam]

Hi, I'm Sam. I am 28 and my family cut me off and I'm wondering what I should do.

[Nick]

Why did your family cut you off?

[Sam]

So this is my extended family, it's not my parents. Just to make that very clear.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Sam]

I recently had a baby in January and was living with my cousin at the time. Her and I had been living together for approximately two years up to me having a baby. Her, she has a child that's 2 years old and was raising her alone. So basically right after I had my baby, my cousin got arrested for stealing. And it was kind of the last thing out of a bunch of stuff that has happened the last few years with her. And I decided that I was moving out. I was like gonna leave the city and go be near my parents because I am a single mom. And so I told her that, I told her I couldn't live with her anymore. And then she got very angry, started throwing plates and glasses while my newborn was in the next room. So I told her if she didn't stop, I was going to call the police.

[Nick]

This is your cousin?

[Sam]

Yeah, my cousin. She ended up leaving and then a few weeks later I moved. And then after moving, I didn't hear from my family a lot. Despite multiple efforts of trying to talk to them. So I finally talked to my aunt and she told me that nobody wanted anything to do with me because she knew that I had threatened to call the police on my cousin. And she was like, I don't care what happens. You don't call the police on family. That was buh. Like, that was so not right. And you don't do that to your family. And I don't agree with what you did, and we don't want anything to do with you.

[Nick]

Okay, well, harsh. But what do you think about what she said? Do you agree with what she said?

[Sam]

I could understand to, like, a certain degree, but, like, I would think that, like, if someone has a newborn in the next room and there's someone in the house getting to a point where they're getting violent and throwing plates and clearly not okay, that if you have to call the police, you have to call the police. I don't care who it is.

[Nick]

Yeah, I would agree. And I'm guessing since your cousin left that day and emotions cool down, because it must be a little terrifying to be in a room with someone who's demonstrating violent behavior around your newborn baby. But even after things calm down, I'm guessing you don't feel like you overreacted in that moment.

[Sam]

No, I feel like I just did what was best, like, for me in that scenario.

[Nick]

For you and your child?

[Sam]

Well, yeah, for me and my child. I didn't end up having to call the police because at that point she got in her car and left the house. And so things were, like, able to de escalate a little bit. And she didn't come home for several days. But at that point, like, I've never regretted saying that. When I tried reaching out to tell my family that I was moving, I even, like, never wanted to trash talk her because at the end of the day, they're her family too, and she does live in the same city as them. But I feel like that hasn't been the case, vice versa. And so I feel that also has a big reason to do why my family doesn't want to talk to me, because I feel like she might have exaggerated or she might have been trash talking me to my family.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, how close are you with this extended family?

[Sam]

I'm pretty close. Like, I've been really close with my family the last four or five years. I wasn't always close to them, but my mom's whole side of the family has passed away, so it's just my dad's side now. So as I've become an adult. I've really focused on trying to maintain those relationships and value those relationships because they're the only family I have, other than, like, my direct family.

[Nick]

And what do your parents think about this drama?

[Sam]

My mom, the minute I called her to tell her what happened, like, five minutes later, was, like, the first one who told me, like, if I wanted to move closer to them, she'd helped me move. She said I could stay with them while I tried to find a place. Like, she was on board of me getting out of that situation.

[Nick]

And it's your dad's side of the family that this is going on with, correct?

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So what did your dad think?

[Lauren]

My.

[Sam]

My dad is the only member of my family that I'm not very close with. He's struggled with the substance abuse problem, so I haven't talked to my dad in several years. So it's just, like, his parents and like my grandparents that I'm. I've been close with and talked to.

[Nick]

It sounds like your dad's hand as a family is a little messy in general.

[Sam]

Definitely a little messy, yeah. It's been a very, like, tumultuous, like, relationship with them for several years. But like I said, as an adult, after losing my grandparents on my other side of the family, I really tried to maintain a healthy relationship.

[Nick]

Where is your dad now, do you know?

[Sam]

He lives in another city. I know where he is, but I don't really talk to him.

[Nick]

And do you not talk with him more based off of the boundary you set or the boundary he set off the boundary?

[Sam]

I said I haven't talked to him in a couple of years. After finding out I was pregnant and everything. I told him that unless he were to stop drinking and stop doing drugs, I didn't want to have a relationship with him.

[Nick]

Okay. All right. And you do know if he's stopped?

[Sam]

The last time I heard, he got arrested for dealing drugs, so no.

[Nick]

Okay. I can't help but wonder if this desire to have a relationship, you know, with his side of the family not only stems from the loss of the rel. You know, the family members you have in your mom's side of the family, but in a way to try to make up from the fact that you don't have a relationship with your father.

[Sam]

I. I mean, I think that's a big part of it. Like, I think that sometimes being close to his family, like, I'm able to somewhat hear how he's doing, because obviously he's still my dad, and I still worry.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah. I think it's obviously the fact, especially now that you're our mom, it's very, you know, your priority is you and your child above all things. So I think it's obviously seems like it makes a lot of sense you set that boundary with your dad, but is there a way to still have a relationship with him at a distance without, you know, I could see why maybe like, keeping this, you know, having this guy around you from a physical standpoint, no bueno, you know, not good. But even if you guys were to communicate via letter or text messages or even a phone call here or there, and you can, you can still very much disagree with how your dad is going about his life and the choices he's making, and you could still be there for him. I'm just saying it's possible. Now. At the same time, I do think it's really important that you do protect yourself and your child. So I think keeping a level of distance makes a lot of sense. And maybe I'm misspeaking, you know, because I don't know maybe much about the relationship, but is that possible? You know, because I'm. Again, I keep hearing this, like at the end of the day, like you said, he still is your dad. You still care about him, you still worry about him. I get why you distance yourself because you felt like you had to do that and you had no other choice. But is, is there more of a compromise that would allow you to have some kind of relationship with your father, even though it's not the one you want?

[Sam]

So, like, even in the past few years leading up to me getting pregnant, although I didn't see him, I tried having a relationship with him where I text with him or talk to him on the phone. And then that turned into him constantly calling me like 12 to 14 times at like 3 o'clock in the morning, super drunk. A few times he called me and like, he would tell me that he was going to kill himself. And yeah, tough, because he was so drugged up or drunk that he was just like, not in the right mind. And so, like, that was another big reason why when I got pregnant, I like, cut that off because I wasn't. I had a rough pregnancy, so I wasn't in a good place mentally already. And then having to deal with that, like, it was just.

[Nick]

Yeah, well, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. I mean, listen, I think all I can really offer you is basically permission to accept your aunt and your cousin's choice and not let them weaponize your desire to have a connection with that side of the family. So much so that you start making concessions for what's best for you and your child. Right. And the good news is I'm not hearing you regretting it. You know, it's like you did the right thing. You put your child in you first, you did what you had to do to get your cousin who was being violent, and I, you know, who knows what could have happened? And there's a reason why you, you know, you didn't even threaten to call the police. You reluctantly stated that you would, you would be willing to call the police if she continued to scare you. But more than anything, I think you just have to accept their decision. And I think you can feel sad about it and confident that you made the right decision. You know, I guess what I'm saying is if I were you, that's what I would do. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm not saying I don't know if I'm. I'm giving you the answer you wanted or hope for. You know, it's just like, I can't give you a solution that's going to mend the fences with these people because it sounds like these people are not open to being reasonable. Right. And if your aunt wants to simply side with your cousin because it's her daughter, without considering, you know, what was going on and who your cousin was putting at risk, maybe your cousin's the way that she is because quite honestly, mom always made excuses for her behavior.

[Sam]

Yeah, I mean, you're right on that front. I think that, like, it's just been, like, not like, the. The loss of my family. And, like, my cousin was also like a sibling sister to me leading up to this point. So I didn't imagine not having her or my family around for, like, my child. And I think it's been, like, less about my relationship with my family, but, like, more like I almost feel sorry. I almost feel guilty that my son doesn't have a lot of family.

[Nick]

Let that guilt go. You will create the family that you and your child deserves. And one, like time does heal wounds, you know, hopefully your cousin figures her shit out, but she was wrong. We don't even have to debate that you're even willing to forgive her. But that was an unsafe situation she put your child in. She deserves to be held accountable for, for that. And as far as the future of your kid, that's a long way. You know, you will bring in people into your life, and I commend you for wanting to have family connections, but it's got to be the right family. You know, I would be more concerned with. Around surrounding your child with healthy people, mentally healthy people, people who are good role models. You know, people can set a good example, whether they're blood relatives or their family through long friendships, you know, that they're like. Like family. You know, just like your. Your cousin was like a sister. You can have a friend that's like a sister too. You know what I'm saying? You can have healthy people in you, in your child's life. And if I were you, I would focus more on that, you know, I just would. Your child will be super appreciative of the fact that you put him first above all things. That's what your child needs, is your love, which you're giving it to them. And you will make sure that your child has family members and friends and other people in their lives. You will make that happen. I think you would do yourself a favor by thinking about what you do have and how little it might feel, your relationship with your mom. You know, a lot of people out there don't have that right. I don't know how old grandma is or what her health is, but let. Let you know. And does your mom side of the family, does she have an. Is it just your mom that's left?

[Sam]

It's just my mom. She has like, I have a great aunt, but my great aunt has dementia, so we go and see her, but she doesn't really know who we are.

[Nick]

And that sucks. But I just. It doesn't do you any good by kind of being sad about your extended family and the problems they have in their. And wishing you had, you know. You know, you turn on the TV or something and maybe you're watching where it's just like, oh, we're having the big extended family and all the cousins and all the aunts and uncles and all the grandparents are showing up and everyone's happy and everyone's in love. And, you know, it's like, sure, I don't know. Yeah, but like, you know, that family has problems too. You know, even. Even in the movies. I don't know if this is being helpful, but, you know, you have a beautiful child. You have your mom. We can explain. Your aunt, right. Your aunt is just blindly having her daughter's back the same way your aunt blindly had her daughter's back her whole life, which calls your, Your. Your cousin to kind of be an asshole sometimes and not ever hold herself accountable, which is why she went to fucking jail for stealing shit. Like, why the. What the fuck is she doing? Like, what is going on there? You know? But your cousin, who. It sounds like that the. The loss of that friendship, that connection with your cousin is probably what's hurting you the most. That makes a lot of sense because that was the person you're closest with. I'm guessing you'll be able to mend that fence if you want to.

[Sam]

Yeah, she has reached out a few times. I just haven't been ready to.

[Nick]

There you go.

[Sam]

Talk to her yet. Yeah, a lot of things were said.

[Nick]

Well, let that shit go. All you should really be carried about is your child. And you can say, listen, I thank you for reaching out. I love you. I miss you. I'm not ready to talk right now. My feelings really hurt. But I do want us to be close again. You know what I'm saying? You can say some version of that. You can let her know that you love and care about her and that you're not ready, but you still hope to, like, mend fences, you know? But you have to put your foot down and say, listen, like, I hate that I was in that position. I didn't threaten to call the cops. I was just as shocked that I was in a position with you, that I felt like I had to be willing to even consider that. Do you. I mean, you were throwing, you know, we all know, including your cousin, that's crazy behavior. And if you're. If your cousin doesn't think that's crazy, then maybe your cousin shouldn't be around your kid. But your cousin, I'm guessing, isn't crazy, you know, and your aunts has taken her side. So just ignore what aunt has to say because she's just speaking from a place of delusion.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And let your. Let your aunt's parenting styles be a lesson to you, that sometimes always having your kids back isn't having your kids back. Maybe there's a better way of saying that because, like, you always want to have the back. But, like, defending your kid blindly and not holding them accountable for their behavior is a recipe for disaster.

[Sam]

No, for sure. I think that I do consider myself really lucky to have my mom and my stepdad and the great friends that I do. I have a really good support system right now, so that's really helpful.

[Nick]

See, you left all that part out. There's definitely a side here of you dwelling more on the negative than the positive. And that's not to take away from the fact that you have reasons to be sad about this loss. But I think you're making A bad situation. Worse by then going down this kind of mental rabbit hole of my son's not going to have any family members. Making yourself feel like some sort of worse parent, like, you're, You're. You're doing everything you can for your kid, and you should be very proud of that. And you're. You. The fact that you want your child to have relationships in his life, that means it will happen. Who he has relationships with, whether, you know, it's your cousin or your aunt, some, you know, like you have a newborn baby 5, 10 years from now, 15 years from now, when those relationships are more formative in this, in your child's life, who knows what's going, you know, who knows? You know, your cousin maybe. Maybe have been fully healed. Maybe she'll get the help that she needs. Maybe she'll figure her shit out. Maybe she'll be in a much healthier place. I don't know. Maybe not. You know, but like, stressing about it now and making yourself feel guilty for something you have no control over. You're not helping you or your kid out.

[Sam]

No, I agree. I think that I will respond to my cousin and just kind of say something like you said about appreciating that she's reaching out, but just saying I'm not ready to.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Talk. But that I do miss her and love her.

[Nick]

Yeah. That's all. I really miss you. I really love you. That was a really scary situation. And I would say something like that, that was. That was a really. That was a really scary day. And everything about that I kind of wish I could forget, but it's been hard to do. But I do miss you. I do want us to be close again. And maybe you saying something about that being a scary day. Well, like, she'll, like, say, hey, I was wrong. It means that she knows she's wrong. You know what I'm saying? She knows she's wrong. And the fact that her mom is feeding her with, like, no one should call the police on the family members, and she's like, yeah, no one. You know, it's like, that's fucked up. You shouldn't have been put in that position that period. End of story.

[Sam]

Yeah. No, I agree.

[Nick]

You know, you should say something. I don't want to have to worry about you being around my kid. That's crazy. I love you, you know, I want you to be in my kid's life. I want you to be an aunt to my kid. I want. I want you to be a role model for my kid. Like, what the. Are you doing that, you know, for. I can't have you be in my kid's life if you're going to be violent around them. So you're breaking my heart.

[Sam]

Yeah. In the beginning, it was like a thing that I was just post. Like, freshly postpartum and that my hormones took over. That's, like, what my aunt was saying. But obviously, like you said, she's just blindly defending.

[Nick]

Yeah. I mean, my cousin. Again, you didn't threaten to call the cops. She put you in a position to have to consider it.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Also, you didn't call the cops, so there's that, too.

[Sam]

No, it would have taken a lot for me to do it.

[Nick]

So the fact that your aunts even be like, no one. Like, first of all, I didn't so, like, shut the fuck up. And family members make threats all the time with each other. So, like, you're telling me I can't even threaten my cousin to call the cops when they're. She was literally throwing. She was doing something. I was threatening something. Like, honestly, I wouldn't even entertain your aunt, and I would just ignore her if she wants to keep, you know, speaking nonsense. And as far as your cousin goes, just let her know when you're ready.

[Sam]

Yeah, I will do that.

[Nick]

And just, you know, your aunt is. She's just being a bully. This is your. Your. Your dad's sister.

[Sam]

Yeah. Who, like, I don't think she's ever like. I think that she's had a lot of problems with me in general because she also doesn't agree with the fact that I don't talk to my dad. They kind of also, like, his whole family also blindly defends him and tries to state that he's not an alcoholic or a drug addict.

[Nick]

So there you go. I empathize with your desire to maintain a relationship with this side of the family. But now that you have a kid, you need to strongly consider, you know, is this healthy for you and your kid and maybe your cousin. But if your aunt is projecting, you know, like, there's. It sounds very toxic, this family. And you no longer have the emotional bandwidth to worry about mending fences with these people who have no interest and checking themselves or. Or dealing in reality. And I would just be very careful how much energy you invest in this family that's taking away energy that you could be investing in your son, in your mom. And people like that who haven't don't have this track record.

[Sam]

Yeah, I agree.

[Nick]

And don't let their actions make you feel guilty about the choices they're forcing you to make.

[Sam]

Yeah, I agree. I think that I just need to focus more on the positive aspects of my relationships in life.

[Nick]

Yeah, because it sounds like you do have some. Plenty, actually. You know, you have a good support system, as you said. You got. You got friends that you love and care about and love and care about you. You got your mom, you got your stepdad, you got your son. Well, there's a lot there.

[Sam]

No, for sure. I'm really thankful for everything I do have, and I need to focus more on them.

[Nick]

Yeah. I mean, sounds like dad's kind of you up a little bit. I understand. And then he's got this family, and you're clearly trying to have these relationships. They're not making it easy for you. And it's. It's. It's been too draining for you.

[Sam]

Yeah, I think it's definitely been, like, draining. I've recently, in the last, like, month and a half, started therapy because I've never really done therapy before.

[Nick]

Good for you. That's awesome.

[Sam]

That maybe it's time to.

[Nick]

That's amazing.

[Sam]

Work out this stuff.

[Nick]

What I've learned talking to you is, like, you know, I. I've talked to a lot of people going to therapy. What I've learned talking to a lot of people who say they're in therapy is, like, sometimes they don' really know why they're in therapy other than, like, you know, and honestly, when I signed up for therapy, I was like, I should. You know, I talk about therapy. I should try therapy. But if you're gonna keep going to therapy, you should have reasons you're going in. You know, you shouldn't always go in to talk. And after talking to you, I'm hearing maybe setting healthy boundaries with family members and more importantly, feeling good about the boundaries you're setting and not feeling shame from it, especially when you're forced to set those boundaries. You can be sad to having me put in a position to set a boundary you didn't want to set, but you shouldn't be feeling shame about it. And you right now, you're feeling a lot of shame from having to set some of these healthy boundaries. And that's something I'd love for you to work on with your therapist.

[Sam]

Yeah, I'll definitely bring that up in my next session next week.

[Nick]

Okay. Because, like, there's a difference between sad and feeling shame. And you're feeling way too much shame.

[Sam]

Yeah, I think it's, like, shame mixed with, like, pressure. Like, I'm a single mom, so.

[Nick]

Well, shame, shame. And pressure are kind of aligned. Right? You know, like when I was. When I felt shame when I was like a. A horny teenage boy, you know, kissing girls and doing things that my parents told me I was going to burn in hell for, I. I definitely felt pressure to do the right thing and then felt shame when I gave in or whatever, you know what I'm saying? When I did the wrong thing. So pressure and shame are very much connected. You know, we feel pressured into doing, quote, unquote, the right thing, and then we feel shame when we don't do what we think we've been told or internalizes what the right thing is. Yeah, you're doing the right thing, which is to set these difficult boundaries with people you would prefer to have a relationship with, but they're making it very difficult to do so. And instead of feeling good about the boundary you set because, you know, it's what's best for you and your child, you know, and then also feeling sad because, like, hey, I'm sad because obviously I love these people. You're feeling instead shame, which is like, am I doing the right thing? Did I do it wrong? Should I have not said that? Should I have not threatened to call the cops? Am I the asshole kind of thing? And you shouldn't be questioning, am I the asshole, basically, for doing something that you know is deep down healthy and right. And I think that, you know, relationship with your father and the guilt that you might feel are all things that I would love for you to work on with your therapist because, you know, and that's. And that's what a therapist is for, to help you work through those kind of toxic internal thoughts that we all have.

[Sam]

Yeah, for sure.

[Nick]

All right.

[Sam]

I'm really glad I started therapy. And definitely.

[Nick]

Yeah, I am, too. Good. That's amazing. And again, pat yourself on the back for that. Give yourself credit. You're making some really good decisions, and I want you to feel good about those decisions instead of feeling sad about them or getting your head and questioning how good you are as a mother or what you're. What you're taking away from your son because you're unwilling to have unhealthy relationships with unhealthy people. Like, your son is going to be grateful that you distance himself from. From unhealthy people. You know, family may be family, but, like, you know. You know, sometimes family doesn't belong around the people that we need to protect. Yeah.

[Sam]

Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you very much.

[Nick]

All right, well, keep us posted. We'd love to. We'd love an update on how things are going with motherhood and your cousin, but I'm, I'm willing to guess if the door will always be open. If you're willing to keep it open, there's a good chance you're one of the healthiest people your cousin has in her life. She's not going to throw that away that, that easily.

[Sam]

Yeah, I'll for sure keep you updated.

[Nick]

All right.

[Sam]

My son's only one day older than river, so.

[Nick]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Sam]

Well, kind of fun to watch.

[Nick]

Happy, happy early birthday.

[Sam]

Yeah, it's coming up.

[Nick]

Is he stand. What's he doing? What's he standing? Crawling. What's going on?

[Sam]

Crawling everywhere. Pulling himself up. He's trying to walk. Yeah, it's been a little chaotic. He's a rambunctious boy who likes to bump his head on things.

[Nick]

Well, that's awesome. Enjoy that. Like, honestly, like just this energy that you're, you could just enjoy your son. It's just like you don't get these days back, you know? So be present, stay focused. Your cousin will come around. I'm confident, I'm confident. The question is, is, will you want them around? Because will they be healthy enough and safe enough for them to be around your son? All right, thank you so much. All right, take care. Thank you. Bye bye.

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[Nick]

How's it going?

[Lauren]

Hi, I'm Lauren. I'm 25, and my male friend who is engaged is still flirting with me. My company and his company work together, so I have to communicate with him for work. And I'm also his friend, so.

[Nick]

Are you friends with her?

[Lauren]

No, I have no idea who she is.

[Nick]

Okay, well, yeah, there you go. Why don't you know who she is?

[Lauren]

There you go.

[Nick]

Yeah, why don't you? Are you. Do you have feelings for this friend? No. Yeah. Yes. No.

[Lauren]

Well, I did. Well, I kind of do. I should say you do.

[Nick]

You kind of do.

[Lauren]

I think he kind of does, too.

[Nick]

Oh, okay. Well, why do you think that?

[Lauren]

Well, there's a backstory here. Are you ready for this?

[Nick]

All right, tell me the backstory.

[Lauren]

All right. So last summer, I'm fresh out of a relationship that was very serious. He's fresh out of a relationship. We've known each other for about a year now, and we go out for drinks. We share a really passionate kiss. He said some pretty intimate things about me to me. What he wants to do to me. And I was like, wait a second.

[Nick]

Is he drinking?

[Lauren]

There's vibes between us. Yes.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lauren]

And so some alcohol involved.

[Nick]

And he said some sexual things like, oh, you're so hot. I want to. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Lauren]

What Exactly.

[Nick]

What did he say?

[Lauren]

I mean, you already know.

[Nick]

What did he say? I want. Say it. Say it out loud. Say it out loud.

[Lauren]

We want to hear things he wanted to do.

[Nick]

As in, like, say, say this exact words that you remember specifically so the audience can go.

[Lauren]

He said something along the lines about how his tongue works very well, and he would want to go down on me and do that.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lauren]

And better than he. And he was very confident, too, mind you, Nick. He was like, I think I can definitely beat all the other guys that have done that to you.

[Nick]

Okay. And what'd you say in response?

[Lauren]

Obviously, I'm like, blushing at this point. Right. And, I mean, a little blurry, right, because we were drinking. But I don't forget, you know, that feeling. I was like, wait a second. I'm like, definitely down to do something. But he was saying these things, didn't want to do anything in that moment. So I was like, all right, you didn't.

[Nick]

Or he didn't seem like we might.

[Lauren]

Need to put up. We didn't. We didn't do anything besides kiss. That was it.

[Nick]

Why?

[Lauren]

Well, we were in the middle of a street, making out on the side of my car.

[Nick]

Okay, but, like, neither of you was like, should we go back to my place?

[Lauren]

Or I kind of hinted at that. And he was like, no, we got work tomorrow. And I was like, oh, all right. I'm like, I'm assuming we're going to put a pin in this then.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren]

Or until next time.

[Nick]

And then. But there was no next time.

[Lauren]

There was no next time. And that's where it gets really complicated and confusing, because after that, I texted him, and I started texting him in a flirty way. And I was like, all right, great. Like, this is kind of the vibe. Now we're just going to be, like, having fun together. And he kind of, like, shot it right down. And I was like, oh, all right. I guess that's not the vibe. And I guess we have to maintain our professional relationship, right? Because we're, like, both working. Working with each other. Not under the same company, but our companies work together. So I was like, okay, that's fine. Then he starts getting very flirty with me. Months go on, that flirtationship is there. It's strong. So I'm at the point of, okay, this guy is interested, but not interested enough to make a move. And me and my friends are kind of like, all right, we're kind of getting over this. Like, love that he's saying flirty things to me, but he's not acting on it. And it's getting kind of old. And he would text me, you know, where are you at at night? And what are you, like, sexual innuendos? And I'm like, all right, not sure what we're doing here with this. Couple months later, after that kiss, I was messaging with his friend. Friend invites me down to the bar with him and his friend, and his friend goes to the bathroom. He looks at me and he goes, I just want to let you know, I'm so sorry, but I've been leading you on these past several Months. And I was like, this came out of nowhere. And he goes, yeah, there's actually a girl in the picture. We just started dating.

[Nick]

Your friend told you His. His friend went to the bathroom, and then your friend. His friend said, I've been leading you on.

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Yes. So said that. And I looked at him, I said, okay. I was like, so you're gonna tell me all the sexual tension that we have, we're just gonna throw it in the back alleyway and know that it's there and it remains there, but we're never gonna act on it or do anything or try anything? He goes, nope. But he goes, I really respect and value you and, like, you're such a good friend, and I just want to keep you around.

[Nick]

That was your. But that was your response. You weren't able to.

[Lauren]

Sexual attention?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Oh, of course I was pissed. I was livid in that moment. I was kind of just. It felt like a slap in the face. I was like, what are we doing here? I'm like, how are you going to leave me on for so many months? And I said this to him. I said, how are you going to leave me on for so many months? And then all of a sudden drop this bomb on me? Like, where would you.

[Nick]

But you were more focused on preserving the sexual tension and not wasting the sexual tens than asking him why he chose to lead you on?

[Lauren]

I mean, I got to that.

[Nick]

Yeah, fine, I guess, if you got to it. But, like, your immediate response was more about. It was your ego. You were. You were more worried that the sexual tension wasn't as real to him as it was to you, and that made you feel silly and stupid, and so you were trying to protect the sexual tension, so to speak, and. And making sure that it was as real as you hoped it would be. And. And instead. And so you felt embarrassment instead of feeling anger. Like, it sounds like you eventually got to anger. Maybe.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But, yeah, I'm guessing you weren't as angry. Well, I know you weren't as angry as you should have been because this stout felt confident enough to say that he still values you and wants to keep you around. And I'm guessing you didn't say, absolutely not. Like, wow. No. Right. You didn't.

[Lauren]

And that's the. Yeah, I didn't.

[Nick]

Yeah, okay. Okay, sure.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Well, I was just kind of like. I'm just kind of like, what the f. Like, why would you kind of do this?

[Nick]

I love the what the f part. The. What are we doing here? I don't know. It's not that. What are we. You know what you're doing. You thought you were flirting with someone who was flirting back with you. You were doing the normal thing. You have no reason to question what you were doing. I don't know why there's a we in this question. There's a what the were you thinking? Don't say you respect me if you are so willing to lead me on and just get off on, like, seeing if you could.

[Lauren]

And there's the breadcrumbing. It's like, almost benefiting his ego of knowing that he has that.

[Nick]

Yeah, but I'm not gonna do anything. Let's focus less on buzzy words like breadcrumbing, and let's focus on why you let this happen.

[Lauren]

Well, I was fresh out of a relationship, mind you, when we first shared that kiss. So of course I was like. And I'll admit it, like, I like the attention. Right? I was hurt, my ego was bruised, and I was like, oh, there's a guy that's flirting with me. So that was nice. And, like, did I know in the moment that I didn't need to have anything? Fresh out of a breakup, Definitely. I was totally cognizant of that. But at the same time, it's nice, right? Like, you're like, oh, someone's interested in me.

[Nick]

Sure.

[Lauren]

And that's where. That's where things probably took a turn. And that's. That's probably where my boundaries drop, right? Letting him flirt with me.

[Nick]

Well, flirting's fun. Up until the point where you found out there was a girl involved and he was leading you on. It's all.

[Lauren]

That's where it gets spicy. Because that next month after he was like, yeah, so I was leading you on. I just happened to meet a girl very casually sad. It's Friday night. I get a text, hey, gotta talk to you about something super serious. I'm thinking, okay, maybe it's work related. He goes, I just want to let you know that I'm getting engaged tomorrow, and I don't want you to be alarmed when you see the engagement photos posted on Instagram. And again, he pulls up and mind you, this is the girl that he had broken up with right before he kissed me that summer.

[Nick]

Not the girl.

[Lauren]

Not the girl he said the girl he said at the bar was his ex girlfriend of three years.

[Nick]

Oh, okay. So we got back.

[Lauren]

So I was like, wait. So, yeah, so we got back together with her. I had no idea. He's never mentioned her. He doesn't post about her on social media. So how was I supposed to know this until those engagement photos came out? So he sends me this long text of, like, I just want to say messaging. I just want to let you know I value you, I appreciate you, I respect you. You're such a badass. Like, I still want to keep you in my life. I've talked about you in therapy. Like, you're just, you know, a part of my journey. But I'm getting back together with this girl, and we really tried working things out. So somewhere in between the kiss we shared and his engagement, he bought a ring for this girl. And I had absolutely no idea. And he's still flirting with me. You're letting it months into his engagement.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah, but, like, right, if you were her, how would you feel about you?

[Lauren]

Oh, I'd be pissed because I've been cheated on before.

[Nick]

So why are you doing what you're doing?

[Lauren]

I still have to communicate with this guy for work, so I can't not speak to him and just cut him off.

[Nick]

Okay, well, that's not what's. You know, you're not the victim here. I mean, you're a victim a little bit by his actions, but you have allowed yourself to be the victim, and you have made excuses. You've allowed his behavior and his treatment towards you allow you to make choices that I'm guessing, you wouldn't be proud of. And you're making choices that, you know if this other person found out about, you would hurt her. And you are justifying those choices based off of all the things he's doing wrong. And you are basically giving yourself a hall pass to kind of have these low character moments just because of how he's acting. You're. You're talking as if, like, you have no control over whether you guys flirt or not. It's like, oh, well, he's flirting with me. I guess we're flirting and I have to flirt back. And. And that's all your ego. Again, the same person who was more worried about preserving the flirting than how this guy treated you was your first reaction. You allowed your ego to step in and dictate your actions, and you're still allowing your ego to step in and dictate your actions. And it is not giving a shit about your character or your heart. And now you are in this very toxy, Very messy situation. And the truth is, is that when he told you that he talks about you in therapy, that made you feel good. You liked it. I mean, you guessed it. Yeah. And this guy knows what to say about you. You are allowing yourself to be manipulated. You're not stupid. Obviously. You're playing dumb. You're playing dumb.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I think it's like, the attention factor, too. Like, it's nice to have that attention on you, but.

[Nick]

Right.

[Lauren]

Like, the other side of me is like. Like, what the am I doing? Like, this is. This is ridiculous.

[Nick]

I mean. Yeah.

[Lauren]

And how am I allowing this? So I guess my thing is, like, how do I put up these boundaries? Because quite frankly, like, this guy is gonna. He's not my husband. He's gonna be someone else's husband. And, like, I don't want this. Right. But it's like, how do I put up those boundaries?

[Nick]

I don't know. You tell me. Come on. Come on. How. How do you think? If you. If your life depended on it, like, what would you. Yeah, like, if your life depended on it, how would you. How. Stop the flirting from happening? Like you said, you can't control his actions. You're not. You have no control over what he does. You have a job to do. Sounds like there's some minor inconveniences as it relates to, like, how you have to interact with this person. That has nothing to do with how you two interact, communicate, and whatever inappropriateness that's going on in this relationship. How do you stop that?

[Lauren]

That let him know that this is wrong. Can't happen. Obviously. He has a whole other relationship that he needs to focus on, a whole future that he needs to focus on.

[Nick]

Okay. And, I mean, that's the start. But I don't. I don't think you need to let him know it's wrong. You're two adults. You both know. And honestly, you saying it's wrong is only going to, like, both. You're. You're both going to get off on it. You can just tell them what you're going to do or more specifically, not do. You don't need his permission. This isn't a negotiation. You could just stop. You could stop reacting. You could pull them aside and said, this has gone on long enough. You're getting engaged. Let's keep it professional. We're not friends, you know, so, like, act accordingly. And please stop reaching out to me outside of work. Like, this has gone on long enough. And. And stop. Does he have any position of power over you as it relates to your work?

[Lauren]

No.

[Nick]

Okay. So I don't think you need to go as far as to make any type of threats, but, like, you know, if you need to go a step further, but you should make this guy. When the first time you talk with him. You should go just short from letting him know that, like, this is inappropriate. It needs to stop. It needs to stop immediately. And you're not interested in having a conversation about it?

[Lauren]

No.

[Nick]

And if he doesn't respect your wishes, then you could say, hey, listen, man, like, I. I. You know, I've already asked you to stop, so one more time. I'm gonna ask you one more time before I ask someone else.

[Lauren]

This is the kick in the ass I needed.

[Nick]

Okay, well, good, you know, because from where I'm sitting, you're. You're. You're embarrassing yourself. He's not embarrassing you anymore. He embarrassed you once he told you the truth. And then going forward, you allowed your ego to keep embarrassing you, and your ego will do that. Your ego will not want to feel embarrassed and. And not give a. About how you embarrass yourself for the sake of trying not to embarrass yourself. I don't know if that even made sense, but I think you get what I'm saying.

[Lauren]

No, I got you.

[Nick]

Yeah. The way you. You. You're not the victim here. The listening your talk, you're just like. You're. It's like a fun, gossipy story that I'm sure if you told some of your girlfriends, be like, yeah, that guy. And I can't believe he. Dang. But, like, come on.

[Lauren]

No, I hear you. And that's why I'm like, It's. You're right. It's like, it's gone on too long, and I'm like, all right, this, like, needs to be cut because it's. It's getting long. It's getting drawn out.

[Nick]

It's.

[Lauren]

Yeah, it's getting embarrassing.

[Nick]

It's well past getting. It's already is.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

The moment you allowed him to get his way and have you at his convenience, that was embarrassing for you. Props for him for admitting it. But, like, you should immediately. I cut this off. Been like, you should have been appropriately mad. Been like, well, that's fucked up. Thanks for letting me know. But, like, no, we don't get to be friends. Like, and I'm not someone.

[Lauren]

Like, I'm not hanging out. Yeah, I'm not hanging out with him, like, outside of work. Like, I'm not. I have not seen him other than work setting.

[Nick]

So, like, yeah, you've become. Obviously, you become. Yeah, but, like, it's still inappropriate. You know, it's wrong. You know that she would be pissed. And he. And he gets off on it.

[Lauren]

I'm gonna bring out the scissors and cut that real fast.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah, though. Just like. Definitely a gut. Gut punch, right? What, you feel stupid? Yeah, I feel stupid. Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah, but, like, you're doing stupid things, you know, and you're smart.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I don't know. That's like. Yeah, I think that's the. That's the tough part. It was. Right. It's like the. The ego's coming into play here, and if I put that aside, the cognizant side of me is like, what the fuck are we doing here? Like. Like, be real.

[Nick]

There's no we.

[Lauren]

Like. Yeah, well, I don't mean we as in me and him. I said we as in me. All the.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

The thought processes going on here. Yeah.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Nick]

It's.

[Lauren]

It's. Yeah. Needs to wrap up.

[Nick]

How long has this been going on?

[Lauren]

Couple months.

[Nick]

Yeah, we'll shut it down. Thankfully, it's only been a couple months. And get this narrative. He's not. He's not breadcrumbing you. He's just. Just using you.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Which is not a good feeling.

[Nick]

No, but you're letting it happen. It's kind of your fault. Right? He made it pretty clear, actually. And you were like, okay, I allowed.

[Lauren]

That boundary to go across and then for other boundaries that you cross, so. Yeah. Makes sense.

[Nick]

Well, you know, you're human. No problem.

[Lauren]

I needed it.

[Nick]

All right. No, I'm. That's why I'm here. Yeah. So just put a stop to it. You don't need to, like, threaten to tell us. Girlfriend or fiance? That's his problem. He's not gonna. He's not gonna marry. He's not gonna marry this girl. By the way, I think you should do some exploring into why you got caught up in this mess, because the more you talk about this, the more it's like, what the. Were you doing? And you're. You're way too invested, this guy. And even after I tell you to cut this off and even if you actually listen to my advice, you're gonna have a hard time doing it, and you're gonna still be thinking about him in the relationship, because that's his human nature. And you should ask yourself why. Well, actually, I. I wouldn't ask yourself, why are you in therapy?

[Lauren]

I was just gonna say I'm gonna tell my therapist on Friday. So.

[Nick]

What. Have you been talking to your therapist about this at all, period?

[Jane]

Oh, yeah.

[Lauren]

I haven't really, because there's other trauma going on in life, and that's life.

[Nick]

What other. What do you also got going on?

[Lauren]

Oh, you know, life, you know, work.

[Nick]

All right, well, it's all connected adults.

[Lauren]

Yes. So hot girl with stomach issues, you know, all the things.

[Nick]

All right, well, I gotta go, but. Yeah, yeah, but listen, you. You have a lot going for you. You got a job, you're a beautiful person. You know, I'm glad you're in therapy, but, like, you're in a toxic situation that you've allowed to put. That you've put yourself in. You very much are co. Conspirator in this whole situation. You're doing stupid things. You're not a stupid person. And you're wasting a lot of mental energy on people not worth your time. And. And I would explore that with your therapist.

[Lauren]

Yeah, sounds about right. I gotta do that. I'll get to work. Thank you for the homework.

[Nick]

All right, well, take care.

[Lauren]

I think it comes down to ego, so thank you.

[Nick]

I know, but I want you to address it so you don't get yourself into another one in the future.

[Lauren]

No, I completely agree because I know my values, I know my worth, I know what I want. And this is none of that. It's the complete opposite. So it's like. You're right. I think there is some soul searching to do here of why am I letting something like this happen when I know what's wrong?

[Nick]

Yeah. Okay.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

All right. All right. Good luck. Cut it off.

[Lauren]

Thank you. Yeah. No, sir, like, seriously, you have inspired me. Like, I. This is the kick in the ass I needed because like you said, like, like, of course all the girlies are like, oh, my God, like, that's horrible. But like, hearing you say this, like a male perspective is like kind of the. The nail in the coffin here.

[Nick]

You are allowing him to embarrass you.

[Lauren]

Yeah. It's not a good feeling and all around bad vibes.

[Nick]

So. All right, put a stop to it. And. And just when you do it, do not. This is not a gun negotiation. You should do this over text, by the way. Just send a text.

[Lauren]

Oh.

[Nick]

Get it over with 100% and reread your text before you send it. You're not negotiating. You're not asking him. There's no we. You are done with this. You would like him to stop, period. Yeah, all right.

[Lauren]

Yeah, okay. I'm on it. Seriously, I'm on it.

[Nick]

Good luck.

[Lauren]

I appreciate you guys.

[Nick]

All right, bye. Bye.

[Lauren]

Thank you. Bye.

[Nick]

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[Jane]

In the dry states of the Southwest, there's a group that's been denied a.

[Lauren]

Basic human right in the Navajo Nation. Today, a third of our households don't have running water.

[Jane]

But that's not something they chose for themselves. Can the Navajo people reclaim their right to water water and contend with the government's legacy of control and neglect?

[Nick]

Our water, our future. Our water, our future.

[Jane]

That's in the next season of Reclaimed, the lifeblood of Navajo Nation. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.