E861 Ask Nick - Stop Being The Fixer

Summary

Episode Summary: E861 Ask Nick - Stop Being The Fixer

Release Date: December 30, 2024

In this episode of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall delves into relationship dynamics with two callers seeking guidance. The discussions revolve around overcoming the "fixer" mentality in dating and establishing healthier boundaries to prevent being perceived solely as a therapist or girlfriend. Below is a comprehensive summary of the key points, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Greg's Call: "Stop Being The Fixer"

Caller: Greg, 38 years old, recently divorced after five and a half years of marriage, seeking advice on rekindling a brief romantic connection.

Timestamp Highlights:

• Introduction & Background ([01:15] - [02:12])

  • Greg shares his experience of dating a woman who ended the relationship after two dates, citing reasons like not being ready for a commitment.
  • Greg ([01:15]): "I'm thinking about reaching out to a girl I used to date, but I need to emotionally protect myself in case I'm rejected again."

• Understanding the Breakup ([02:12] - [05:39])

  • Discussion on the concept of "unfinished business" and the difference between genuine connection and "love bombing."
  • Greg ([03:50]): "We were, like, really excited about introducing each other as boyfriend and girlfriend type of thing."

• Love Bombing vs. Mutual Excitement ([05:40] - [10:12])

  • Nick explains that love bombing involves insincere expressions of affection with ulterior motives, contrasting it with mutual excitement Greg and his date experienced.
  • Nick ([05:04]): "Love bombing comes with intent... I don't think that's what's going on here."

• Advice on Moving Forward ([10:12] - [27:03])

  • Emphasis on focusing on self-healing rather than reopening a potentially unreciprocated relationship.
  • Nick ([13:22]): "The best of your recollection... is it your person? Is she your person? I don't know."

• Self-Improvement Journey ([37:12] - [43:29])

  • Greg discusses his efforts in therapy, personal development, and physical health, highlighting his commitment to growth.
  • Greg ([37:12]): "I've lost 41 pounds in about four months, and I'm keeping on going with that."

Key Insights:

• Self-Focus Over Reconciliation: Greg is encouraged to prioritize his healing process over attempting to revive a short-lived relationship.
• Avoiding Emotional Fixation: Nick advises against reaching out to prevent falling back into old patterns of emotional dependency.
• Understanding Relationship Dynamics: Recognizing the difference between genuine connection and temporary excitement is crucial for healthy relationship building.

Conclusions: Nick Viall reinforces the importance of personal growth and self-care post-divorce. He advises Greg to let go of the "unfinished business" mentality and focus on building a fulfilling life independently, ensuring that future relationships are based on mutual respect and genuine connection.

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2. Jessica's Call: "Men See Me as Their Therapist and Girlfriend"

Caller: Jessica, 31 years old, struggling with men she dates viewing her as both a therapist and a girlfriend, leading to unbalanced and emotionally taxing relationships.

Timestamp Highlights:

• Introduction & Relationship Patterns ([47:18] - [50:04])

  • Jessica explains how men she dates often default to sharing personal struggles, treating her more as a support system than an equal partner.
  • Jessica ([47:33]): "Almost overnight it just seems to turn into, how is your day? I'm tired, you know..."

• Identifying the Issue ([50:04] - [57:58])

  • Discussion on the importance of establishing boundaries and recognizing when a relationship dynamic becomes one-sided.
  • Nick ([55:49]): "You're often willing to be right over being happy."

• Strategies for Healthier Relationships ([57:58] - [86:30])

  • Nick suggests implementing qualifying questions early in the dating process to identify potential partners who are emotionally self-sufficient.
  • Nick ([97:00]): "Do you love your job?"

• Enhancing Self-Awareness ([86:30] - [109:32])

  • Emphasis on Jessica challenging herself to seek partners who do not rely on her for emotional support, thereby fostering balanced relationships.
  • Nick ([103:35]): "You have to be mindful that you have a habit of wanting to solve these guys' problems..."

Key Insights:

• Early Boundary Setting: Asking direct questions about a potential partner's job satisfaction can help identify emotionally mature individuals.
• Avoiding the Therapist Role: Recognizing and stepping away from relationships where one partner is overly reliant on the other for emotional support.
• Self-Challenge: Encouraging Jessica to seek environments and partners that align with her desire for balanced and mutually supportive relationships.

Conclusions: Jessica is advised to refine her dating strategies by incorporating specific questions that assess a man's emotional independence and satisfaction with his life. By setting clear boundaries and seeking partners who are self-reliant, Jessica can cultivate healthier and more equitable relationships, avoiding the pitfalls of being seen solely as a therapist or girlfriend.

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Overall Takeaways:

• Self-Care is Paramount: Both callers are encouraged to prioritize their personal growth and emotional well-being over attempting to fix or revitalize potentially unhealthy relationships.
• Establishing Healthy Boundaries: Clear communication and early boundary setting are essential in fostering balanced and supportive romantic partnerships.
• Understanding Relationship Dynamics: Differentiating between genuine connection and temporary emotional excitement can lead to more fulfilling and lasting relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick ([05:04]): "Love bombing comes with intent... I don't think that's what's going on here."
• Greg ([37:12]): "I've lost 41 pounds in about four months, and I'm keeping on going with that."
• Nick ([97:00]): "Do you love your job?"
• Nick ([103:35]): "You have to be mindful that you have a habit of wanting to solve these guys' problems..."

---

By addressing these concerns, Nick Viall provides actionable advice aimed at fostering healthier relationship dynamics and personal well-being for his listeners.

Transcript

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[Nick]

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[Greg]

Hi, I'm Greg. I'm 38, and I'm thinking about reaching out to a girl I used to date, but I need to emotionally protect myself in case I'm rejected again.

[Nick]

Okay, when you say rejected again, did she end the fling?

[Greg]

She ended it after two amazing dates, yeah.

[Nick]

Why did she end it?

[Greg]

You know, she gave me the whole it's not you, it's me thing. You know, she's not ready for a relationship and yada, yada, yada.

[Nick]

Okay, and why are you thinking about reaching back out?

[Greg]

Because to me, it's. It just seems like unfinished business to me and we really hit it off and, you know, a lot was said during the dates, after the dates that made it seem like she wanted to, you know, pursue something. And then I heard nothing for a couple days and then I got the message. So I'm wondering whether or not I should do it, how, how, how I should word it if I end up reaching back out. That's why I'm here.

[Nick]

What did you say in response to her when she sent you that it's not you, it's me message?

[Greg]

So I had a little bit of a moment of weakness there. I did kind of ask to talk to her about it, kind of like hash it out, which I realize is not the right thing to do now. And then she sent me back something like saying like, why would I do that? Kind of kind of thing. And then I just kind of wished her well and went out my way.

[Nick]

Why would.

[Greg]

I was.

[Nick]

Why would she do what?

[Greg]

Like, why would she talk. Talk to me about something she's already decided type of thing?

[Nick]

Gotcha. Okay, well, based on what you're telling me, I definitely don't think you should reach out. Okay.

[Greg]

All right.

[Nick]

Just. Just for fun. Just because that's. We're here to have fun. Why. Just convince me why I'm wrong.

[Greg]

Okay, well, so we had two great, great dates. We were kind of moving really, really fast. We kind of, like, skipped, you know, 10 steps in the relationship. We were love. Love bombing each other. And it's really tough when. Because I didn't know the term love bombing before this whole thing, but, you know, it wasn't just one party giving it and the other person pulling away. She was giving as much as I was giving her. So to me, it was.

[Nick]

Would you. Were you guys actually saying I love you?

[Greg]

No.

[Nick]

Okay. When you say love bombing, we were kind of. Give me an example.

[Greg]

Like, we were, like, really excited about, you know, introducing each other to our friends as, you know, boyfriend and girlfriend type of thing, introducing ourselves to family, basically confessing our feelings for one another.

[Nick]

Okay, the best of your recollection, do you remember being the first one to express your excitement? Were you leading the excitement and she was following? Or do you feel like it was like, kind of fairly, like, back and forth?

[Greg]

It was pretty equal. We kind of hit it off right away. Messaging on the apps. And then the first date went great, and then the second date was the next day, and things kind of unfolded from there and that. And then the second date was the last time I ever saw her and really spoke to her.

[Nick]

Did you guys hook? Hook up and have sex?

[Greg]

We did. We didn't hook up. We got physical. We kind of fooled around a bit on that second date, which was the day after the first date.

[Nick]

All right. But no sex, though.

[Greg]

No, no.

[Nick]

Okay. Okay. When you say you first learned about love bombing, how. How did that come up? What do you mean by that?

[Greg]

Okay, so I'm getting divorced after five and a half years. That's why I'm, like, testing the dating pool.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Greg]

Honestly, it was through. Through you. Nick, my sister is a big, big fan. She's been listening to you since pre Covid. And once I got. Once I broke up with my wife, she recommended your POD podcast, which I have listened to ever since I read your book. Giving her the book. So, like, I. I learned of that term through you. And I realized after the fact that that's what I was doing and that's what she was doing to me. And sorting through my feelings on that is kind of what I'm struggling with. Like, I do want to continue dating her and I don't know why things ended. And I know you're, you know, probably going to tell me, you know, like, you obviously just said, like, just don't even reach, reach out. But I'm really struggling with that. And I'm an anxious attacher. I know that now.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Greg]

And I'm wondering whether this is, like, worth it or if it is worth it. Like, what do I say and how do I emotionally protect myself, you know?

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, these are all good. These are all good questions. A couple of things I want to say when you say, you know, your anxious attachment. How do you know?

[Greg]

Because I text frequently. I'm one of those people who just needs to be reassured when I'm with someone especially early. And when I don't get the text back, I am, you know, pretty anxious and in my head about it.

[Nick]

Okay. The reason I asked, too, because I also think, you know, I say I'm saying this kind of just to be a smart ass, but I do think you should reread the book about love bombing. Right. Because my big point in my book was how we are misusing words and watering down the meaning of these words. I'm definitely not an expert in attachment styles. I know the basics of them. I am not even doubting that the little bit you've probably read online or in a book, you're probably accurate. I'm just very cautious about us diagnosing ourselves because I think at times we, we like to latch onto these things and we go. It's like, I think it's one thing to have a better understanding of who we are and as people, how we handle our emotions. And then I think sometimes I think we like to latch on these things as almost like excuses in our head to act a certain way or, you know, to fit in with a group. Oh, what's your attachment style? Well, I know my attachment style and things like that. You know, I think if you have a therapist that is, you know, studies this thing and wants to explore your attachment style and what you can do about maybe being an ancient attachment style, I'm all for that. But like, randomly reading something about yourself online and then going forward, speaking about, like, hey, I'm anxious attachment style, it only really benefits you if you're able to then address why you are the way you are. And maybe learn some tools to stop being that way. Other than that, it's just like that's.

[Greg]

And that's part of the reason why I'm here as well.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Greg]

Kind of like get. Get some more tools as well. And I am in therapy. I did start therapy after me and my wife broke. Broke up.

[Nick]

Congratulations.

[Greg]

That's awesome.

[Nick]

Yeah, thank you.

[Greg]

It's been life changing. Changing, as you've said. Many, many times.

[Nick]

How long ago did you. You and your wife separate?

[Greg]

This was back in June. So this was like. So this is what, like now we're at like four months.

[Nick]

Okay. So it's still pretty. Pretty raw. Yeah.

[Greg]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay. All right. All right. So listen also for, you know, back to love bombing. I don't know, maybe you guys did. I wasn't there, but I think there's a huge difference between two people being excited about each other on a date and kind of saying things. They don't really know what the they're saying. Like, oh, I can't wait to introduce my parents. I don't think that's love bombing. Love bombing comes with intent. Love bombing. Like, say, for example, gaslighting is a term originally used to identify someone who was a little emotionally abusive. And then they, you know, and I don't, I don't. I've. I've just started talking to you, but I don't think either of you were emotionally abusing each other. I think it sounds like both of you were a little excited about the dates that you were on. I don't know anything about her, but I can imagine why you would be excited. Hell, you just. You're going through a divorce. That's emotionally. It fucks you up. You want to move on from that. You. You go on date with someone that, like, it's going great, man. I. I imagine when you got divorced, there's a lot of fear about, like, never finding love again and yada, yada, yada, or even connected with anyone. And here you are connecting with this woman. Very understandable why you'd get excited about that. Right. That's not love bombing. Love bombing is saying things to someone else. Like, for example, let's say you went on a date with this girl, and all you wanted to do is, man, you just wanted to get laid, right? And so here. And you thought that if you told this girl that you were falling in love with her that she would drop her pants and have sex with you. And so you said, I love you, and then you had sex. And then you were like, peace out that would be love bombing. That'd be fucked up. Because then you played to her emotions. You made a promise knowing that you didn't feel that way, but you. You wanted something in return. And love bombing happens when you express some kind of love or affirmation, not because you feel that way, because you're trying to get something from them, you know? And again, the very common one is like, you. There's a hookup situation. A girl's like, well, what does this all mean to you? And you're like, what means I love you, baby. And. And then you have sex and you're like, bye. You know, and you're only saying you know how you feel about her because you think that it'll get you laid. That would be a version of love bombing. Right? And I don't think that's what's going on here. I think you guys got excited about. Yeah, you guys got excited about each other. You got a little carried away. And then she said, timeout, you know?

[Greg]

Yeah, so, but like, so the, the thing that happened after those two amazing dates, after we got physical, after we connected on the date the following night into the next morning, she sends me a paragraphs long text in the middle of the night and says like, hey, when was.

[Nick]

This is in between the dates.

[Greg]

So this was. No, this was after the second date. This is like the next night leading into the. The. The morning two days later.

[Nick]

So after the second date, but before she ended things.

[Greg]

Correct.

[Nick]

Okay. All right, go ahead.

[Greg]

So she sends me this paragraphs long text saying, like, hey, you know, we're moving really, really fast. I really like, like you. I want to take things slow. We had, we had plans for a date the next day, which was. Which would have been a third date in like less than a week, which I know is a lot, but that was our plan. She said like, I kind of want to slow things down. I want to like, maybe do like one or two dates a week max. Let's kind of get into that rhythm. I still like you. I still want to pursue a relationship with you. It's just a lot right now. She was talking about, you know, she. She just moved from another state like about six weeks prior. So she was kind of getting her feet under her there. She had a girls weekend that weekend, so she was busy. So she said like, let's kind of like take the weekend off and then like re. Regroup for the next day. So it was. Or the next week. So it was a very hopeful text. And it made me feel really good, like wow. She wants to take a step back, you know, we're moving really, really fast. I totally recognize that. And I sent her a text back, basically saying, like, I'm down for all of that and totally, totally down for everything there. So we had a call scheduled for the next day, and I texted her, I called her, no answer, and she already said she was busy. So I kind of was like, all right, she's busy. Whatever. Then the weekend goes. Goes by. She's on her girls weekend. She had, like, a baby shower and a girls trip planned. I resist texting her at all during that time. All the while, my sister is coaching me through, you know, how to sort through my feelings and talking me down from texting her and that. Sure. And that worked out great, you know, because this is. This is how I am, Nick. Like, I just. I just. I want to text. I want to, like, you know, hey, how's it going? You know, checking in, whatever, you know, and that's just how I am. So I had to. I had to, like, actively resist that. So Monday comes, the weekend goes by. Monday comes, I send her a text in the morning like, hey, I hope you had a great weekend. I'd love to hear all. All about it, you know, whenever you get a chance. That was in the morning. Two days of ghosting happens after that. And then I kind of forced the issue two days later and say, like, hey, you know, you said you wanted to slow things down, but this is, like, really slow. Like, I. I want to know what's going on type, type of thing. And then she sends me the text saying, like, you know, it's. It's not you, it's me, and blah, blah, blah. So that's. That's where things ended.

[Nick]

Okay. Who knows, right? I mean, what I know for sure is that after the first two dates, she felt a little uncomfortable in the speed in which you guys were moving. Right?

[Greg]

Correct.

[Nick]

Right. Why? How? I don't know. Right. And. And so we don't. We know that. Right. So is it possible that this message that she sent you in the middle of the night was really just about how to reset expectations with you and then move forward? It's possible. It's also possible that, like, in the back of her mind, she, you know, was already kind of questioning how she felt and maybe psyched herself out. I don't know.

[Greg]

It doesn't really, like, too much too soon.

[Nick]

Yeah. Who knows? It doesn't really matter. One advice I want to give to you as you enter in the dating world is stop giving you know, is it nice to have a nice date? Sure. Of course. It's even better to have two dates in a row that are nice, but that's all they are. Is there two really great dates that really don't mean anything in the grand scheme of things? You know what I'm saying? Like, is she your person? Is she not your person? I don't know. So many, there's so many very, you know, Right. You could just be two people. Maybe, Maybe the reason why you both had fun is that for different reasons, you were both anxious and excited about having a connection at all. Right? Here you are, fresh off the divorce, anxious for and desire to connection. We, we understand that. Right? Maybe she has something going on in her life for, for, for different reasons. She had the same desire to have this connection. And in this date, there was an, the, the environment was set up for two people to connect in a way that they were just both excited about. Does that mean you guys are in love? Does that mean you guys are each other's person? Does it mean you're compatible? We don't even know. Or the unclear is the point. Right. And so it's very easy for someone in your shoes to be like, oh, man, we just, we had, we had two good dates, man. I'm just, you're just, you get fixated on the fact that you had two great dates and you start glorifying your head about like, they're just two nice dates, right? And I'm not trying to discourage you from just. But it's just more like you got to be, when you have a nice day, it's, it's fun to get excited, but it's also like, you just got to have to pump the brakes, you know, just, you need to pump the brakes, you know, and if I were to give you a small note, and I don't think this really changed the outcome, but when she messaged you all these like this long message, right? And it was like how she is feeling about the speeding your relationship. And the only thing you responded back was, I'm down for all of this.

[Greg]

Well, no, no, no. It was, it was in so many words. I was, you know, basically going, going through it and say, like, you know, I'm, you know, I definitely want to slow things down. This is not normal. Like, I recognize this. I'm just, you know, we need to slow things down.

[Nick]

Okay, so you did empathize with her healthy way.

[Greg]

Yeah, I did. Oh, yeah. I, I, I, I sent her, you know, a couple par paragraphs basically saying, I am down for that. You know, let's. Let's, you know. Yeah. Re. Regroup after the weekend.

[Nick]

Because I was going to say it's like you saying, I'm down for that just kind of sounds like you just want to be agreeable just so that you can hang out with her.

[Greg]

Oh, no, no, no. Okay.

[Nick]

All right. All right. Yeah. Because you want to do some kind of like. Yeah, you're right. Thank you for pointing that out. I think. Thanks for, you know, thanks for calling us out on that. Yada, yada, yada. I think we're down. Listen, the fact that she wrote that message, you agreed to it, then you'd never really kind of heard from her after that tells me that more likely than not, that she was kind of mentally checking herself out from this relationship and, you know, is it you? I don't know. It's. It probably is more her than you. I don't know. Even if it was like, I decided I didn't like him, she doesn't really know. She doesn't even know how she feels about you. Right. Maybe she just psyched herself out. You know, who knows? I don't think you should reach out because all your reasons for reaching out are mostly based off of two exciting dates and then making a lot of assumptions about how you thought you felt about her.

[Greg]

Right.

[Nick]

And she is entitled to feel how she feels. She is entitled to not want to go on a third date. She knows how you felt. And even if she was testing you and you failed her test, you don't want to deal with something. You know, the fact that she. She didn't handle herself the right way, you know what I'm saying? She did leave you hanging. Doesn't make her a bad person. But, like, maybe not your person, but, yeah, maybe.

[Greg]

Maybe we're dealing with someone who's not emotionally mature enough for now.

[Nick]

Whatever. Yeah, I would spend less of your time worrying about her emotional maturity, you know, because I think it's very easy to be like, oh, well, you know what? She. She is not mature enough. I mean, listen, if that helps you move on, great. You know, I tell a lot of callers to, like, focus on the things you don't like about someone who doesn't like you rather than obsess about what you're not getting. There's a limit to that. I don't want you, you know, getting a habit of being like, oh, you don't like me? Oh, well, there's something wrong with you. It's just more accepting that they're not your person. Right.

[Greg]

Well, that's. That's just me kind of, like, speculating and, like, endlessly going over, you know, that. That, like, week. That. That. That week is, like, you know, in my mind, just going over it over and over again, ruminating. Like you say. Yeah, yeah, that. That you do that. I do as well. Yeah. I mean, to me, it's like, you know, I'm going off of her text where she said, you know, this is what I want, and then, you know, half a week of complete silence, and then I get that. It's like, not that she owes me a reason, obviously, I'm not saying that, but it's just, like. It's like, such a. Like, a question in my mind. You know what I mean? Like, I just want to, like, maybe, like, throw it out there, like, hey, like, you know, some time has passed. Like, do you want to go out again? Like, I don't. I don't know if I should do that or how I should word it or what. And it sounds like you're just telling me, like, it's just not worth it to throw myself out there again.

[Nick]

Yeah, because you're. You know what's changed, right? The only thing that's changed is you've ruminated. When we ruminate, us ruminators are very good at, like, reconstructing things and then building them back up to fit our narrative. Because to me, what's changed, you know, I haven't heard from her. Nothing's really changed. You can't assume she feels differently about you. If you reach out again, you're risking coming across as a guy who's not willing to, like, listen to a woman who's set a clear boundary and doesn't want to see you again.

[Greg]

Right, Right. Yeah.

[Nick]

And I would hate that for you. My guess is you probably have some regrets and, like, how you worded things or, you know, yada, yada. You almost want a second chance for her to have a last impression of you.

[Greg]

Well, that's. That's the thing, Nick. I'm going over all my actions, all my words, all my texts that week, and I really, like. I mean, obviously I'm biased, but I really can't see anything, like, wrong that I.

[Nick]

That's fine. That's fine. Especially if you're, like, running it by your sister and you're getting a woman's point of view. And that's. That's the thing. It's only been a couple of dates. You know what I'm saying? You probably didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, this is not about like, you know, you met this person, this is just one girl and you had a couple dates. But you know what I'm saying, she, for whatever reason, and there could be a million reasons why that are very justifiable, that have more to do with what's going on in her life than, than your two dates and she opted not to continue. Right? And you're sitting here trying to figure out, did I do something wrong? Could I said something differently? You know, who knows? Probably not.

[Greg]

I will say as a quick aside to this one week later, after she ended it, she viewed my profile and my sister's profile on LinkedIn.

[Jessica]

Okay?

[Greg]

So I don't, I don't know if that means anything at all. I'm just throwing it out there. That's like the last.

[Nick]

Listen, I love, I love that you say that. I love your admission because if nothing else, I think for all the ladies listening, I think again, I always try to remind ladies, you know, because a lot of women listen to this, you are an example of a guy who was or is excited about a woman. And here you are reading into nothing. Just like a lot of the ladies out there will read into things. And I'm here to remind you, men and women aren't that different. When we like someone, it's pretty obvious you like her for whatever reason and now you're reading into this shit. No, it doesn't mean anything. It means that she was bored one day and you know, listen, like, she's not a machine. Just because she decided to not hang out with you again. I'm sure she was conflicted. I'm sure, you know, she easily could be talking to her friends, being like, I don't know, he was a good guy, I don't know what the fuck I did, but like I self sabotage a lot and blah, blah, blah. But that's her journey. And you're not here to heal her. You're not here to recommend. You're not here to like, well, just so you know, like, therapy's really worked for me. Maybe you should get into therapy so that you won't self sabotage us. That's her. You know what I'm saying? I don't know what her reasons are. Her reasons are her, her reasons and they're valid. And all her reasons say to me is she is not your person and the why doesn't really matter, you know, and she was curious about you. You know, I don't know, she, but if she really wanted to reach out, she has your number, you know, What I'm saying.

[Greg]

Right. She would have already done it.

[Nick]

She's not trying to get your attention, you know, but, like. And I don't know, don't. You. You go online. Don't. Is every person's profile you. You. You look at or. Or stalk. Does it mean you want to fuck them or. Or marry them or date them?

[Greg]

No, no, no, I get. I get what you're saying. Yeah.

[Nick]

So it was.

[Greg]

It was just odd. It was just odd. Like, I noticed it. It was only mine. It was my sisters, and me and my sister don't have the same last name, so. So maybe there was some digging going on.

[Nick]

I'm sure she was second guessing her choice. I'm chef. She was definitely thinking about you. We know that much. Right. But other than that. Right. Could be a million different reasons. And the point is, if she wanted to actually get a hold of you, she knows how to do it.

[Greg]

But that's. But that's not an indication of interest in your mind, like, interest of getting back together again. She.

[Nick]

You. Right. You made it very clear that you weren't thrilled with her choice.

[Greg]

Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, I just kind of said, like, let's talk about this.

[Nick]

Like, not, you know, just so you wanted to talk. So she knows where you are. If she. If she wants to talk, she knows where to find you. You know, again, it doesn't. There's a million reasons why, you know, and you're just. I get it. You're a little. You're bomb. You're heard, you. You were excited about someone, and, you know, it's like, I totally empathize where you're coming from. I think it's important for you to recognize that, you know, you're. You're still very fresh off of a divorce. You haven't even healed from that. Right, Right. And here you are worried about how vulnerable you might be reaching out to this new girl who you've only had two dates with. I think the big picture is, you know, you're still healing from this divorce. Right. And there's a lot of unknowns in your dating life. And. Yeah, it sounds like you're excited to get back out there. What this should be for you is just a exciting reminder that you are capable of liking someone else and you are capable of making connections with other women. Right. That's exciting. And that should remind you that you'll meet other people.

[Greg]

Yeah, I mean, I've never been doubting that. That is a good, good, good point on your part. I don't want to belittle the point or anything, but I think this has mainly taught me the difference between excitement and like real feelings or love. And you've, and you've talked about this many, many times.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Greg]

You know, excitement is really hard to like when, when the other person is giving as much as I am or is giving me back everything that I'm giving them in terms of, you know, the language that we're using, the actions. It's really hard to, for me at least to resist that and to not immediately have feelings for them. I'm not saying, like, I totally resisted saying the word love because I know that would have, you know, changed things in that moment. But it's really hard for me to, you know, deal with this excitement that's still like in me. Like I still think about her. I still, you know, I, I still have these feelings. And then for that text to come say, hey, I, I like you. I, I want to, you know, slow things down. I still want to date, date you, whatever. And then just nothing. And then ending it, it's like such a, It's a very hard pill to swallow. And I, and I know you understand, it's just like, I don't know, it's just, it's. I need to get better at, you know, really just seeing dates as, you know, like approach it. Like you'll, you'll never see this person again type of thing. Like just take it as like a, you know, just like a one off thing. Like, and then just have it build, have it build and like I was putting too much of my feelings on, you know, two, two dates. And I, and I need.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's less of treating it like you'll never see them again. I think that adds almost unnecessary stakes. I think it's just an acknowledgement just.

[Greg]

To like lower the expectations. More like a reasonable expectations type of thing.

[Nick]

Well, the reasonable expectation comes from reminding yourself that you don't know this person at all and you're both incentivized to be your best self on this date. Right.

[Greg]

Right.

[Nick]

So when you do meet someone on a date or not, even if it's a fifth date, it's just like every time you go on a date with someone and there's a. And you learn more, you can say, wow, this has been a really good date. This is, ah, man, I read a lot of fun today and I'd like to go on another date with you. And then when you get back from that date, you remind yourself, hey, I'm excited that I'M excited, but let's just remind my. I just need to remind myself that even though this could not have gone better, I feel like I learned a lot about her. There's a lot of things I'm super excited about, but I need. I need to slow down, and I need to remind myself on day two, I still have a lot more things to learn about this girl, and I need to take it slow. I need to. I just. To slow myself down. Right. And so then you come back a little more curious. And again, like, part of that's gonna make you more attractive because, like, as soon as we start being really excited, especially early on, we run the risk of, you know, scaring the other person off, not looking like.

[Greg]

And that's. And that's what I think happened.

[Nick]

Maybe. Yeah. I mean, you definitely could have, you know, hurt maybe for all, you know, a friend got in her head being like, this guy just got out of divorce. He's not ready for another relationship. He's just like, you're just a rebound to hurt him, blah, blah, blah.

[Greg]

And that's where my mind has gone as well.

[Nick]

But the truth is, like, in part of there, not me, but some truth there. You know what I'm saying? Like, it doesn't even matter, because who knows what happened? The point is, if a friend was able to convince her about how she felt about you, then she's not ready to be in a relationship with you. You know, the. You know, the. What happened. You. You know, I said this. In my book, what happened is way more important than trying to figure out why it happened.

[Greg]

Yep.

[Nick]

You know. Right. And what happened was, you know, you had two dates and she flaked on you. And the why doesn't really matter, you know, because she could have handled it better. And how she handled this moment well is very telling of how she'd handle herself in a relationship. You know, I'm. I'm a big believer, obviously, that conflict reveals more about ourselves than being in a good situation. Right. You know, so.

[Greg]

Right.

[Nick]

We learned more about her through the conflict of not her. Her. Not sure of how she should handle being unsure about you than. Than we learned about how she was when you guys were vibing on these dates. I mean, maybe she's being agreeable as men. We also have to recognize that, you know, sometimes women just agree with us on dates because. Well, quite honestly, I don't know if I should. I should disagree with this strange man. You know, I'm being extreme here. But, like, that is. That is something women think about. That, you know, you're a big guy, right? So, like, you know, when you're in a situation, you're like, I think this about you. And maybe she's just saying, me too, because, fuck, you know, I don't want to piss this guy off.

[Greg]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I'm not saying you're giving these vibes, but I think as men, it's just important to recognize that, like, you know, women have different priorities, they have different concerns, they have different things going on in their lives. And. And more than anything, it's just a good thing to remind ourselves that two dates isn't much. And anytime we say to ourselves, it feels like this. It feels like I've known you forever, that it also means that you don't. No. You know, and you have to slow yourself down rather than. You don't need to slow her down, you know, like, that's her job, you know, you. And the more you slow yourself down, then you could say, like, yeah, I'm really excited about you. But, like, we'll see, you know, and boy, if you tell a girl we'll see, she's gonna, you know, that's gonna trigger her ego, and that's gonna make you more desirable. So there's benefits to you slowing yourself down and taking the will see approach anytime you get excited about someone, because it'll make them, you know, especially early on, you know, still feeling like they have to get to know you and get to see if you like them. As soon as you let a girl know you, You. You like her, the. The game's up, so to speak, and vice versa. And as humans, we just, you know, we love. We love a challenge. We love all these things. But I think right now, big takeaway is I think it's great that you're in therapy. I think it's great that you're trying to heal from your divorce. I think it's great that you're getting back out there. But I think as far as getting it back out there, I think you should slow down. I think you being triggered by this person after a couple good dates, I think maybe is a reminder that maybe you're not quite ready to get back out there. Now, I'm not saying you should stop dating, but the fact that this girl that you went on two dates with kind of fucked you up a little bit emotionally, I think, tells me that you still have some healing to do, because I think you're able to get caught up in the moment a little too quickly, and it's. It's distracting your healing okay.

[Greg]

As an aside to that, in your experience, talking to, you know, all your guests, I wonder if the fact that I'm going through a divorce now and not that my divorce is final, I wonder if that plays into anything. Like, do women have this thought in their minds, like, oh, he could get back together with wife.

[Nick]

How would you feel? I mean, if you met a woman who was going through a divorce?

[Greg]

I'm kind of battling against that narrative in a way, in my head.

[Nick]

Sure. But that's not for you to listen. Just like if you are a single parent, you know, do you have kids?

[Greg]

No.

[Nick]

Okay. So you don't. Something you don't have to worry about if you. But if you did have kids, that would be something you would have to. It would be in the back of your mind. It would be something you would have to address in dating. Some women would have more questions. Some women didn't care. I don't know. But it is, you know, you have baggage. You know, you're going through a divorce. We all have baggage. We bring in different baggage. The best way to have our baggage not be something that feels like baggage to someone else is to show the emotional maturity that you have dealing with it. Am I making sense? The best way to combat someone judging you from going through a divorce is to just handle yourself, to be emotionally regulated and, you know, said than done, obviously.

[Greg]

But yeah, that's. That's something working on.

[Nick]

And I think you have valid reasons to be frustrated that she goes to you and didn't reach back out. But either way, here's the thing. There are men out there that she's dating, and they might be fuck boys. She is used to guys that she is liking blowing her off, ghosting her, not giving her the time of day. And we all respond to that, you know, and so here she is. You weren't giving guy who I like to chase. Now, that doesn't mean you did anything wrong.

[Greg]

Right.

[Nick]

You know? Right. But you have to put yourself in her shoes. So here she was expressing some hesitation about the speed at which things are going. You. She waited a couple days. Maybe she's testing you. I don't know. And then after a couple days, you were like, hey, what the fuck's going on? And maybe she read that a little aggressively, I don't know. Right. But again, she's so used to men probably, like flake, you know, disappearing for weeks, you know, and she's put up with that. And here you were, not even okay with a couple days, you know, and the reality is, again, I'm not trying to criticize what you did, but you only had two good dates. And if she wants to fall off a grid and go on a bachelorette trip or hang out with her girlfriends for a week without hanging out with you, she has every right to do that. You guys had no relationship, zero expectations. You know, you weren't really in a position to. To demand anything from her. Not that you were demanding it, but, like, you were kind of like, hey, I want, you know, like, this isn't fair to me type of energy, you know?

[Greg]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nick]

So. And. And coming from her position, she probably was like, you know what? I'm. This is too much for me. Too fast. Right? That sounded very boyfriend and girl. It sounded like you had expectations. And quite honestly, after two dates, you shouldn't have much.

[Greg]

I know, I know.

[Nick]

You know, I'm not letting her off the hook. She's. There's different ways, but that's. She doesn't. She's. For me, she's out of the picture. This is about you handling yourself in these dating situations and coming across as a man who's in therapy, who's dealing with their divorce, like, who is very quick to put themselves in the other person's shoes so they can empathize with that person so they kind of don't go off the rails or aren't reactive. Because that's, you know, that's why we're reactive. Right? Someone offends us, hurts our feelings, we're immediately triggered. Our egos are kind of like, fuck you. You can't let this person treat you this way. Then you demand a response from this person, yada, yada. As we get older, we get more mature, as we get therapy, we. It's just easier for us. I mean, if nothing else, what they have show. Doing this show and talking to a million people about what they're going through helps me empathize with people a lot more. I'm just. It's very easy for me to be like, I don't know. Well, if I were in their shoes, how would I handle it? You know, I am programmed to do that now. Right. It comes very naturally for me when I feel wrong or slighted to be like, well, what would I. And you know, and you ask yourself, well, what, right now you're going through a divorce and you're thinking, oh, man, I can't try to figure out, how are women going to treat me coming off a divorce? And you're just like, well, it's pretty easy to figure out. What would you what, what concern? Even as a divorced man, if you went on a date next week with your equal, like someone who like, you know, separated from their partner the exact same day and was in the exact same process, you would have questions and concerns.

[Greg]

Right.

[Nick]

You know?

[Greg]

Right.

[Nick]

And how she handled it and answered your questions and just how she carried herself would do more for you in terms of, you know, alleviating whatever concerns you had more than anything that she could say.

[Greg]

Right.

[Nick]

My big takeaway is I want you to just, you know, slow down. Like you're, I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Just try to slow down a little bit. You know, I, I think if you called me up and was like, hey, Nick, man, like I've been dating this girl, we've had like five great dates, I'm really excited about her. You know, I'm going through a divorce right now. My big takeaway would be like, slow down, man. Yeah, I don't know, it's like to go through a divorce. But you know, I do know they're hurtful and painful and messy and, and, and you're going in a time in your life where, you know, I'm guessing 28 year old you was not planning in and, and, and being such a transitional period in their life at 38, and that can you up a little bit and that can get in your head. You're still really young, you have a lot going for you, you are among friends. But now is the time to really just, you know, be okay with being alone, be okay with healing, be okay with like investing in yourself. Really try to be your best self. Not so that you can go on dates and talk about how great you are, but just to really, yeah. You know, find those flaws, those areas of opportunity. If you really think you're an anxious attachment person, explore that with your therapist. Make sure they know what they're talking about. But, you know, try to get those tools so that you. Again, something out about if I were you and I talked to my therapist is like, listen man, like, man, this situation happened, this girl, I'm not here to talk about whether I should dating her, but like, I was so anxious for those two days not hearing from her. And I'd love to figure out how I can like let that shit go, set it aside, you know, because that should have been the answer. You, the truth is, if you would have called me up right after this girl reached out, I would have been like, forget that she exists for now. Let her reach out whenever she's ready to reach out. Let her make the next move, because right now she's unsure about how she feels. And you need to pull back in a way that makes her fearful about losing what she had on those two nice dates.

[Greg]

No, and, and what you said now kind of confirms what I'm already doing because after this whole thing happened, I was really disappointed. As. As you can tell, what I did was I resolved to kind of just like, take this time to work on myself, which I have been doing after the breakup. So, like, all my free free time and energy is going to work, Jim. And therapy. And the other one is research things like listening to your podcast, reading your book, reading other dating advice stuff, things like that. You know, I'm really proud of what I've done. I've lost 41 pounds in about four months, and I'm keeping on going with that. And that's like a mental health thing as well. I just don't have the patience now to start conversations, get on the apps. Like, I deleted all the apps off my phone. It's just this, this, this. This one girl is, you know, I think about her like, almost like every other day. And I. And I just like, it's. It's such like an unresolved thing in me. Like, I want to see if anything is, like, actually still there if she's going to entertain. You know, it's all.

[Nick]

It's all in your head, man. You know what I'm saying? She's triggered something in you. She has scratched some sort of unhealed wound. I don't know what it is. I don't know. Explore that with your therapist, but it is not because she is your person. It is not because it's. Again, she's just. I don't know, probably, if nothing else, it was just. It was a feeling that you desire to have and you want to replicate. And you, you know, it's like you missed that. Yeah, you gotta fix. You gotta fix something you really enjoyed. And so now you just need to let it go and acknowledge that, you know, that's for you in the future. But right now it's like a sugar fix, man. You know, I always like to use a food analogy, but, like. Right.

[Greg]

Sour Patch Kids.

[Nick]

Yeah, exactly. Right. And so maybe now it's a reminder that you got that sugar fix and. And you're susceptible of binging again, you know, where in the future, if you real, heal, healed, you could get a fix and then process that fix and ask yourself, how can I incorporate this feeling slowly into my life without it, like, taking over my life. Because what you are describing is a feeling and not being able to understand that feeling and just wanting to replicate that feeling over and over and over again because it feels good. And that kind of sounds like an addict, you know? You know?

[Greg]

Okay. Yeah. I never thought of it in that way, but that's. Yeah, because, like, I am kind of like, chasing that feeling, like you said. And it's. And it's like, it's.

[Nick]

It's.

[Greg]

It's not love, it's excitement, and that's what I'm like, drunk on. Right, right.

[Nick]

Yeah. Because you probably. I don't know, I imagine going through a divorce. There's probably a period, and then you and your. Your ex wife are at each other's throats. You're probably just, like, surviving your marriage and just making each other more miserable. I don't know. You know? So, yeah, it's understandable why you're craving that fix and that feeling. But again, this is where the healing and the emotional maturity comes in and things like that. And I would. I keep. Keep investing yourself, man. Like, keep going. That don't stop, you know? Congratulations on everything you've made so far, but keep going until becomes who you are and not something you're working towards. It's like, that's.

[Greg]

That's good. Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, I want to become old hat for you. You know, I want it to become part of. I want it to be incorporated in your life. You know, I don't want it to become like a diet. I want it to become a new habit. You have a lifestyle. Right. And I think right now you're in this transitional period. You're very motivated by getting through this divorce. But what happens when the motivation ends? What happens when you settle into your new, new normal? And when we settle into our new normal, we get comfortable. We resort back to our comfort ways and our comfort ways usually. You know, sometimes if we don't have any guardrails, we'll snowball into, like, not being our best self, you know? Right, right.

[Greg]

Okay. Well, that's very help. Helpful is a different way of thinking about it. Thank you, Nick.

[Nick]

Anytime, man. Yeah, it's always nice to talk to the men dealing with some of the very similar struggles as the ladies out there. Can I offer you an unsolicited grooming.

[Greg]

Tip or as a fellow bearded man. This is my first beard.

[Nick]

Good. I love it. I love the beard.

[Greg]

All you got.

[Nick]

Trim the beard. Trim the beard. It looks a little. It looks a little unkept a little bit. Yeah. Okay.

[Greg]

All Right. I, like, I straighten it in the, in the mornings, and I don't know, maybe by the afternoon it gets a little frizzy.

[Nick]

It's giving a little, like, letting yourself go. I, I. Trim the sides. Trim the sides. Go. Know what you need to do? Go to a, Go to, like, a barber shop.

[Greg]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And ask them to, like, clean up your beard and let them do their thing.

[Greg]

Okay.

[Nick]

That's what you should do. Okay. Yeah. Find a like of.

[Greg]

It's like, right now I'm just like, it's my first beard, so I'm trying to go for length. You know what I mean? Just like, see what it looks like. Like, you know, longer, but I don't know.

[Nick]

That's something like eight, you know? I get it because it's your first beard. It's a very boyish thing to do. I totally get what you're saying. And listen, at the end of the day, this is just a grooming tip for the future. When you're ready to get back out there as far, like, if you, if you want to just around because you're having fun growing a beard, then I'll just shut the up. In the future, when you're done having fun experimenting with this new beard, go and treat yourself to a nice barber. Ask them to trim up your beard in a way that looks like both rugged and, and, and, and well kept. And have them do that. Yeah.

[Greg]

Okay.

[Nick]

Just a ch.

[Greg]

I have a really good. I have a really good barber, so I'll maybe explore that the next time.

[Nick]

Yeah. Great. That's all I got for you. Thanks for calling. Would love of, you know, keep us posted how things are going for you in your. Your healing journey and your dating life. Would. Would love an update down the road as things go, but, yeah, I would. I would take a little break from dating when she, when this girl pops into your head, you just got to let it go. You know, you got to remind yourself it's not. It's not really her. Her you. It's what she represented. You know, she made you feel a certain way and. Yeah, just you're. You're just replaying the, these, these dates in your head over and over and over again. What happened way more important than what was said or how you know, why it happened and things like that. You know, the actions in early dating situations are far more trustworthy than. Than what was said. Right.

[Greg]

Very good. Thank you very much.

[Nick]

All right. Take care, buddy.

[Greg]

All right.

[Nick]

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[D]

Hi. I'm good. I'm Jessica. I'm 28 and I'm wondering if my ex get back together or if he just wants me during his football off season.

[Nick]

Okay. I'm assuming you've heard from your ex and that's why you're reaching out.

[D]

Yeah. So I actually just started hearing from him maybe two weeks ago and we haven't spoken before that for six months and he has been asking me to talk since then, but this was the first time I reached back out to him was two weeks ago.

[Nick]

When did you break? So you broke up six months ago? Yes. Why did you? Why did you break Up.

[D]

So it was honestly a long time coming, and I. There were a lot of things that were kind of playing into it. But I will say the biggest factor was two years ago, my uncle, who was basically like my father figure, very, like, randomly suddenly passed away. And my boyfriend at the time was away playing football probably five different times, four different times. Each time it was half a year long. But this time, he was actually here when it happened, which I was very thankful for, because I was always worried something could happen when I was alone. But the funeral was set to happen when he had a tryout to go to, and it was just like a weekend. He was flying out to a different state to try out for another league, and it was a big opportunity. He didn't want to miss out. But I told him, like, you know, there are other tryouts, and this is a really, like, once in a lifetime thing for you to be here for me. And it was, to this day, like, the hardest thing I've ever been through, like, losing him, losing my uncle. So I really needed him there. I expressed that over and over again, and it feels really bad to even say I was begging for someone to come for my uncle's funeral. And we'd even been together for probably five years at that point, which is even worse. But, yeah, so he, at the end of the day, chose to go to his football opportunity. Couldn't miss out on that. I also thought that if he didn't go, he would hold it against me that he didn't get the opportunity. But I didn't realize until I went that it was gonna impact our relationship as much as it did. And I feel like it took two years because I lost another person in my family, and I kind of feel like I didn't want to lose that relationship also on top of that. And I had hoped that maybe he could make up for it in some way, but it just declined in all sorts of ways since then.

[Nick]

What do you mean, declined?

[D]

Well, so the. So he plays football, professional football. It's an indoor league, and so he doesn't get paid very well. It really is a big passion. He had dreams of going to the NFL. That didn't really happen, and now he just wants to play football. So. So, yes, I always.

[Nick]

Go ahead. I'm. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, he always had dreams of, you know, playing there, but it was more because he wants to play. Like, the pay was not that great, and he would come back, kind of scramble for work on his off season, and then basically wouldn't be able to go out on many dates at all or really do anything together or travel, which was kind of rough. So I kind of played a part in it because I feel like he never. We never went out. We never did anything. And then it just was a matter of him kind of like maybe feeling bad or not showing up for me and kind of like giving up. In a way, I feel like he really felt very guilty for missing out on that. He didn't get that opportunity that he tried out for either. So it kind of felt maybe a little bit worse for him, and he really did stop showing up for me.

[Nick]

Now, when you said that, you smiled.

[D]

Well, I kind of also feel like I kind of like started accepting. Like, I gave up too. Definitely. I definitely. There was a very, like, I'm saying.

[Nick]

When you said he didn't get. He didn't like the opportunity that he missed your uncle's funeral for. Yeah, you. You smiled, which tells me you really enjoy being right. Yeah, listen, we all do. I think this is something to, you know, when I'm listening to you talk, it's just something I pick up on. And we all like being right. Well, let's. Let's finish. Let's finish your story because you first called in basically saying, you know, my. My football playing boyfriend is in his off season. Does he just want to get back together because it's his off season? And then now you're giving me context about your relationship. And obviously we're getting into some, you know, very deep, kind of rooted issues in what is a very long. You two have a long history. Yeah. Like, when did you guys meet? How long? Like, you're. You're 27.

[D]

Yeah, I'm about to be 28. And we met in college. I was on the track team and he was on the football team. So we knew each other from sports and our friends.

[Nick]

What'd you run?

[D]

I was 800 meters, 400 meters, and then I did cross country.

[Nick]

I was a mid distance.

[D]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

That was the hardest one of them all, for sure.

[Nick]

100%. All right. But I guess my point is, is that this isn't like, you know, I was kind of half expecting you to be like, yeah, am I dating this fuck, fuck boy football player? And we've been dating for like six months. And then he went and played and now he's back and should I give him some time? And that's not what this is. This is. I've been dating this guy since college. We have a long history. We Probably. I'm guessing you guys have talked about, like, you know, spending the rest of your life with each other. You've played house. I'm sure at times you've probably done it all right. And then, you know, you have a long history of these, all these scenarios and these stories that I'm sure you could share more stories that he let you down. I bet he has stories of things you did to frustrate him and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I guess back, now that I have some context about your relationship, what are you really hoping to get out of this call? Like, are you considering getting back together with this guy? Are you sure that he wants to get back together with you? Are you not even sure if you know that for sure? Like, where are you at in terms of this relationship?

[D]

So that is where it's difficult because I feel like, you know, he lives the life of, like, it's inevitable to kind of live the life of the football player. Like, they would, you know, have to go out to eat and shop at bars and be there, like, and he's far away, you know, in a different state. So it's always gonna be difficult. But I can genuinely say I've never had, like, a thought of him cheating or disrespecting me or playing me. It really was a matter of him just kind of choosing to play football over, like, being able to show up for me. And then him kind of. I just kind of realizing, like, like, you know, he. We graduated in Philadelphia area, and then he wanted to move to, like, a whole different state. So, like, it was a 10 hour drive moving here away from family, and I've been here ever since. So we relied on each other a lot. And when he did move here, he actually, it was. We graduated when Covid happened, so he gave up football at that point because it wasn't happening. And he got a sales job here. So I didn't actually really expect to be tied into this kind of football life. I guess when I moved here away from family and friends, that kind of made a little more difficult.

[Nick]

How did he do in sales?

[D]

So he did okay in sales. He didn't really have. I kind of feel like I. Like, he always had the plan to still do football. And he kind of came to me one day and was like, yeah, I got an agent and I have an opportunity to play in. It was like, Bismarck. It was super far away. And that was when I was kind of like, very like, whoa, you have an agent? Which I kind of didn't Even realize he still had an agent to try to do football. So I did kind of feel like he always knew he was going to do it. It was just a matter of now I'm away from my family and friends when you're leaving for three months to six months. And I don't know if I would have made this move out here if I knew that that would have been what could have happened. I might have actually rather stayed home and closer to friends. So that's sort of where it started to feel like, you know, football is his main thing in life and I might be just kind of like a side note. And I feel like since then it kind of showed me that every time he left he'd been very, you know, he's very present when he was here and then he would leave and be very involved with his football team. And when he would come back here again, like he just was kind of like trying to make money to support himself and practicing, you know, waking up practicing, going to work and practicing after work. And we really didn't really do anything together because he was always so busy with that.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

And how old is he now? More so a matter of.

[Greg]

I.

[D]

He's about to be 28 also.

[Nick]

Okay. So this to me is about is your ex boyfriend, is he willing to grow up or not? Right.

[D]

Kind of where I am stuck right now because I feel like he, who he has been, you know, he was away and it was actually Oklahoma. It was super far when he was last playing and we were still together at the time. But I feel like I just kind of started to back off the relationship and not really care as much. I stopped showing up to his games and supporting him because I realized that he wasn't able to support me and show up for me. And we both just really kind of gave up, I guess. And I was the one who ended up pulling the trigger and just kind of like saying, I think we need to break up because I don't think anything's changing. And then he blocked me on everything. And that was. I was trying to figure out a lease. I was trying to figure out like I had to make a move on my own without him even knowing like where I was. I have to get like the, you know, all these little things like get the WI fi, get the insurance without him giving me his sign ins and make a whole thing. So it just made a lot of things very difficult. And I was honestly shocked that he just flat out blocked me. In the long term, it really helped me because I instantly Like, I had actually, like, a race the next day, and I had to, like, barely even knew if I was going to do the race. Like, didn't know if I wanted to do it. And I went and did it and I was, like, proud of myself. And then was like, you know what? Like, I can use this time to concentrate on myself and build and work. And maybe like, not even two months later, he starts talking to me again, like, texting me. And he would, we have a dog together. And he would send me pictures of our dog and that would be it, no contest or anything. And I wouldn't answer because I'm just kind of like, whatever. Kept sending me, asked how she was, asking how she was, and then I, you know, would just kind of be like, she's good once in a while. And then he would, and then randomly he said he was in, like, my area, like, in South Carolina area, and he wanted to meet up again. And I'm wondering, like, why did you even move back here? Like, we're even staying with. Because he had no ties here except for me. Like, he never liked it here. So that kind of made me annoyed because I tried to build a life here in the meantime. And he came back here in his off season, which I feel like it also would have been a little bit easier to ignore him if he wasn't here. But he kept asking to see me and my dog, so why wait?

[Nick]

Why are you annoyed?

[D]

Well, I'm annoyed that he's back here because he did complain a lot about how there's no opportunity here, how he doesn't have anyone to, like, practice with.

[Nick]

For clearly back here for you.

[D]

No, I don't really know that because also he has two friends who live here and he's living with one of his friends.

[Nick]

Sure. Okay, well, maybe it's, maybe it's one of the, maybe it's a little bit of both. I don't know. I, I, I'm getting the sense from you that you definitely play games. For sure, we all do. Just giving you example. I don't even know if you hear yourself. You know, you were like, oh, he blocked me. Really pissed me off. You said. And I was, you know, I was going to jump in, but I waited for you to kind of finish and then you were like, it ended up being a good thing. But what's funny about that is I'm willing to bet that, like, despite it being a good thing, you're still choosing to be pissed off that he blocked you because you feel, like, wronged by him. You're like, how dare you block me? But I can sit here not being emotionally invested in your relationship with him. And when you say he blocked me, I'm thinking, you know, you probably hurt his feelings because you wanted to break up with him. He blocked you to get a reaction. He didn't probably even know what he wanted in this moment. He was hurt. And you know me. If you've listened to the show, I tell people to block people all the time. If, If. If it helps them move on from, you know, a relationship, a relationship that you decided to end. So he blocks you. You then act like the victim, as if, like, how dare he do this to me? And then you did what you know, you needed to do, which is like, you. You grew up fast. You were able to. It's like you're able to give yourself credit for doing the adult thing and figuring your shit out and the benefits that came from it, but you're still willing to hold on to the grudge that you have for him blocking you in the first place. Does that make sense?

[D]

Yeah. And that's totally true, because I kind of, like, feel like we were at a point where it was like, who's gonna break up with who? And I felt like I had to do it and kind of be the bad guy, and I needed something for him to give me to show that he was also the bad guy, kind of.

[Nick]

That's the thing. It's just like, this is a classic case, you know, You've heard me say it. I'm sure. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? Needs to be your new life motto. Because I think you love being right so much, and I think you are often willing to be right over being happy. And I think a lot what I'm hearing about your and your boyfriend's relationship is about being right, and you guys both forego happiness. Here is a man who potentially moved to a city for you, and you're deciding to be pissed off about it because you've decided you own this city. You know what I'm saying? And I have plenty of, like, things that I can nitpick about your boyfriend here. You know, to me, I'm hearing, you know, if we want to, like, shit on your boyfriend, because I'm, you know, I'm shitting on you right now. But, like, listen, your boyfriend needs to grow up a little bit, right? Like, clearly, this is a man who, you know, he's 28 years old, and I know enough about football to know it's a young man's league and 28 is like, you might as well be 70. I'm slightly exaggerating, but this is a man who's jumped around from like minor league to minor league. He's, he's, he's playing these random fucking, you know, teams in South Dakota or whatever. Like if he was going to make it to the big leagues, the NFL, he would have made it already. No NFL team is going to give a 28 year old journeyman a shot. Whatever shot he had, it's passed. That is the fucking reality of the situation that, you know. And so I don't know if maybe he wants to be a coach. I don't know, there's, maybe there's careers in football. But like you have, if you're serious about this relationship with him, it would be fair to you to sit down with your boyfriend and say, hey, listen man, like we've known each other for a while. I really like admire you for chasing your dreams. But at what point I need to know that like, if we get back together, like, we're done playing games, the only reason we should even get back together is if like we're like serious about a committed relationship. We've been in each other's lives for years. You know, we're family at this point if we choose to get back together. So it would be just, you know, but like, are you ready to grow up? Are you ready like to actually get a job? You know, and if your job is somewhere in football, but like, you need a goal and right now your only goal is to keep playing football. And that's not a goal and it's certainly not a career and it's not something we can raise a family on and I need a partner. And we sometimes need to like, ask ourselves tough questions and we need to both challenge ourselves to be, you know, tough on each other. You knowing that you have a track background and it sounds like you're still competing outside of college, you know, you're still active, so you're a highly competitive person. He's a highly competitive person, you two, I guarantee, because I've said this to Natalie, like she's the first girlfriend I ever had where I didn't feel like I had to compete with her. I told this to my therapist the other day and she was like, yeah, that happens all the time. When I say compete, I don't mean like you guys are like sitting down and playing Monopoly and fighting, which I'm sure that might happen too. My therapist is like, yeah, my ex husband used to Compete over who had the worst day. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I'm having a really bad day today. And then, you know, one upper is like, well, I added even worse day, you know, and like, you know, I guarantee you to do that shit all the fucking time. I bet you guys compete over the dumbest fucking shit of who's had it worse or who's had it better. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You two need to learn how to be team players, and you should be able to figure out because you competed on teams your whole life. But, like, right now, if you guys want to get back together, it's about being a team. And you two need to both acknowledge where you felt short of each other, of being a good teammate to the other person. You two are so fixated on being right on winning. That is probably, I'm guessing, the crux of the problems that you guys have had. Right. As far as your uncle's funeral, I can see both sides, right? Like, obviously a father figure who passed away tragically, you want your partner to support you. This is a man who, like, thinks he's chasing a dream. And while maybe disillusioned as that dream might be, like, yeah, it's just like if. If this was, in fact, a real opportunity that could change his life in ways that he might, you know, never get another chance. It's, you know, I met my wife by missing my grandmother's funeral. That's a true story. At the time, I thought I was just being a shitty grandson. Turns out my. I have a daughter. You know what I'm saying? There? I. I'm a big believer there are moments in your life that can drastically change your life forever. I can name five off the top of my head, that if I don't show up that day, random thing that I have had no idea would change the course of my life because of people I met, I wouldn't be sitting here today with you. All I'm saying is that your boyfriend, who's chasing a dream, and he has opportunity. It's. It's not that easy to say, hey, you need to be here because someone passed away, and it's meaningful to me if they believe deep down, this could change their life forever, you know?

[D]

Right.

[Nick]

The point is, is you guys, yeah. As a couple, neither of you were interested in sitting down and saying, well, can I hear why this is important to you? You guys are so quick to tell your version of the story. You want to be heard, and he wants to be heard, and neither of you are willing to listen. That's the read I get after talking to you. Is anything I'm saying sound accurate?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely accurate. And especially because, like, I, at this point, I've been in therapy for a year now, which has really helped. So I've been really, like, kind of, like, very. It brought to light a lot of the issues that I brought to the table, too, because I know that, like, I was waiting for him to do something to mess up the relationship, but I was really over it after the fact that he didn't show up for my. It wasn't even the fact that he didn't show up for my uncle's funeral. That really was awful. But then he did leave again for football, and then my grandma passed away. And then that kind of just made me realize, like, this is a bit much. Like, he couldn't have shown when he was here, and he didn't show up when he wasn't there. And then he actually, like, had his mom and his sister come visit me during, like, the week of that happening. And that was honestly, like, awful for me because I just wanted to be with, like, either alone or by my close friends or family. And then. Or even for him to come home the next weekend or the weekend after that if he was free. Like, if he couldn't even come to the funeral. But that just never ended up happening. And it just kind of, like, built up more resentment towards him. And instead of leaving him, I, like, that resentment just kind of built. And there was basically, like, a boiling point to this where it was kind of like he came home the season afterwards and we went out. It was like this really nice night downtown we went out to. And I got too drunk and didn't even remember totally bitching him out that night and pausing a scene. He even recorded me. He showed me it the next day, which was not great at all. And I saw that, and I immediately signed up for therapy. I was like, I don't even know that person who has all that inside of them and is so mad. But, like, it's been there and I just haven't dealt with it. And I knew I was taking out on him and I didn't want to do that anymore. And he even said, like, it would be great if you would do therapy. And I agreed. And that was the point where I did. And he took even, like, three days apart. He stayed with his friends. And I was just like, apologizing, like, signed up for therapy, tried to do everything I could, but then it just Felt like it wasn't enough time because he left again for football and maybe like two and a half months. And I just felt like I was like. I just feel like too much has even, like, happened at this point. I don't think he could ever forgive me for that. Like, he just never really looked at me the same after that. And it just kind of felt like I was so mad at him for so many things and he had something and he, like, you know, and for me, I don't know, because I was so hard on him for a lot of things that made me upset, but I feel like that was his opportunity like that towards me. And it was just difficult. I was like, I don't really think we're ever going to get out of that situation. And I concentrate a lot on, like, I leaned a lot on therapy. And therapy kind of like just woke me up to not really it being either our problems, just it being really like not a good relationship right now for everything that happened. And it was a lot of kind of fighting. It was a lot of, like, random things, like him, me looking through his followings, him following a cheerleader, which I never want to even have to do for someone, and seeing that and feeling suspicious and everything, just kind of like. So, you know, just built and built this. I think I always wanted to maybe break up with him. I just kind of needed some things to do that and I was looking for it and I found it and broke up with him when I probably confused him because I should have done it when it actually hurt my feelings, like when he.

[Nick]

Sure. Well, listen, you guys met in college. You guys met at a very young age. You met with limited experience when it comes to being in relationships and handling your emotions, you know, so, like, you don't need to be that hard on yourselves. I think you both acknowledge you've made mistakes in your relationship life, especially early 20s. None of that really matters, you know what I'm saying? That's all. And. And if you guys were to entertain getting back together, you both need to understand, you need to let that go. You need to let the past go. You don't use the fact, like, you guys have such a past that you're going to weaponize it against each other, which is a lot of what a lot of people do when they get back together after a breakup, you know, so you have all this ammunition on each other. You're going to both have to acknowledge to let that go. It doesn't matter what was said, what happened three years ago. You're Both maturing and hopefully different people. You can still learn from it, but you both have to let it go. Right? So the big question is, is like, do you love this man and do you want to entertain a future with him?

[D]

And that's where I'm at right now because I really. When I was done, I felt like I'm done. Like, there's just too much stuff. You're talking about the past.

[Nick]

You're talking about the past. I want to know. I don't care. I don't. Okay, let me ask this again. I do not care about the past and assume that clearly you both and him have shit to work on. I'm not asking about practicality. I'm not asking how we're going to execute this or how to do that. I'm just asking how. What your heart feels. And if I was a genie capable of making your wish come true, would you want to be in a healthy relationship with this man or do you want to move on and explore a future with. With someone else?

[D]

I would definitely want to be in a healthy relationship with him. And that was. Oh, I feel like it wasn't maybe always my goal. Like, I did want to just take time after the breakup and think that we weren't ever getting back together, because I really didn't think that. And I've been on a few dates since then, and it had, you know, haven't had bad dates. I've had some okay dates, but have still kind of, like, thought that he just provided something different. Like, he was just such a different, like, vibe with him and wanting to do everything with him and experience life with him. It was kind of like a different thing. But so the most recent thing that we did, again, like, talk on the phone two weeks ago after we haven't seen each other for six months. And in my mind, I'm thinking the longer, the better. It's more time for us to kind of heal and move on. Because it would have been so easy for me to just, like, answer his first text month in, after we broke up and then get right back into all of our issues. But I knew that, like, I still needed time, he still needed time. I wasn't ready. And so I still, like, was working in therapy and going through everything and still, like, missing him and working through all those emotions. And then when I felt ready to talk to him, he wanted to meet up, but I said, like, let's do a phone call. I thought that'd be, like, too much pressure, and I wanted to just kind of get a Vibe of where he was at. And the phone call, like, went super well. And he even talked about how he looked into doing therapy, and I was really impressed by that. He mentioned couples therapy, but I said I wasn't, like, comfortable with that. We're not, like, a couple at the moment. I'd rather do mine and him do, like, his at the moment. But I was, like, appreciative that he even had that thought. And he did, like, something that kind of, like, bothered me a little bit was that he did kind of mention. He was just like, I just don't know, like, if I can move on from, you know, everything that you said that night, like, what you said that night, it just kind of made me realize that you don't think anything of me. And I just kind of was like, okay, like, we took, like, six months to kind of work on this, and you're still gonna work.

[Nick]

What exactly did you say? Like, you're a fucking loser, and you're playing loser football, and, I mean, did you go there?

[D]

I said that he was broke. I said, he never takes me out on dates. I said I was embarrassed to be with him at times. I'm embarrassed that he didn't show up for me for the funeral. He embarrassed my family. Like, I was like, yeah, I mean.

[Nick]

Not great, but it could. It could have been worse. Well, that's. Here's the thing. That's the thing is you. If. If you guys were to get back together, I'm glad that he even brought up couples therapy. You know, I think that's great. If you guys were to get back together, you should go immediately into couples therapy. That's just my opinion, because I'm thinking, why waste each other's time? You guys have so much history. Let's not pretend this is, like, two people meeting for the first time ever. And if you guys do get back together, I want to entertain this. You already have this incredible head start because you have this history. And like I said before, you're at the risk of this history, like, causing way too much unnecessary resentment and tension and you guys fighting about all the wrong things. It would really benefit you guys having some sort of intermediary to help you, guide you through working through the shit that you need to work through and. And let go of the shit. That is just baggage, right? Of which you guys both just have a lot. That being said, listen, he also has to face some tough questions himself. And yet, you know, you would have to say, listen, like, we both have done some shit that clearly we. We have Both hurt each other. We've both made each other cry. We've, we've, we've really done some bad things to each other. I think we also agree that there's still a lot of love between us. So if we get back together, we just have to both agree to let that shit go. And again, I, you know, jump into couples therapy to help us work on that and do that. But like, he can't dangle that carrot and be like, well, I don't know if I could ever. That's such a, like a. I think we use it. It's a manipulation tactic. I honestly think, you know, I don't think we're doing it on purpose. It would be the same thing if you bring it. Well, I don't know, you know, you didn't show up to my uncle's funeral. Like, I bet you would bring that up a million times. You know, if he got back together when it was convenient, you know, anytime he dis, oh, he did it again. Listen, he, for example, he's going to have to recognize that when it comes to his football playing, he has been incredibly selfish. That has been his dream that he's been following. And it's a dream that he has been following with any like, light at the end of the tunnel. There's been no reward. Hang on to me, babe. I got you. It'll all pay off at the end. He must at this point recognize that he is just playing just because he enjoys playing. And you know what, that's definitely a choice. I can't sit there and argue it. You know, listen, I don't have like my 20s. Fuck, you know, all my 20s were at this point in my life were just lessons. They were, that's all they are. There's a lot of people that were in my life, like girlfriends that were very pivotal in my life. I have no fucking clue where there are in their, in their life now. I really don't know. You know, I've made friends, I lost friends, whatever. But all they are, it's lessons at this point, you know, and so if it's hard for me to sit there and criticize your ex boyfriend for like, honestly, if, if he gets to be my age, right, let's say he finally figures out, you know, he's like, I'm done playing football. And at 30, he could easily get back into sales. Fucking sales companies love ex athletes. He could walk. Probably walk in. Is he a decent looking guy? Yeah. Is he? I'm guessing he's over 6 foot.

[D]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. So you know what? He's a shoe in for a med sales job. He has to have like a half a brain. He could be one of those guys and in 10 years he could be some, you know, regional director for some, you know, med device company making, you know, six figures. And then he's just like, yeah. And I spent all my 20s playing the game that I loved. I have great memories. I have all these friends. And yeah, I was sleeping on a couch and all me and my, me and my now wife, like, we fought all the fucking time. He won't have a single fucking regret of playing the game he loves. So it's, you know, and I'm saying what matters is what is he going to do with his life when he finally realizes, hey, man, all right, enough is enough, right? And I don't know if now is that time. I don't know if you're going to be the reason and you have the right to say, listen, I don't want to sit there and, and I said a lot of hurtful things that I regret. At the same time, I do want to think about my future, right? And if, if whatever relationship I get into, I want, I want a partner. I think we could have been better teammates in a relationship. I think sometimes as teammates we need you to be, you know, more supportive and be each other's cheerleaders. But also we do have to challenge each other to make tough choices in our life. And listen, if you want to be in my life, like I need you to make less selfish decisions about your own personal life. You got to play football throughout your 20s. I could have been a more supportive person, but like at the same time, you know, I didn't know any better. You know, when you're 24 years old, you think I should get married now I should get engaged. Where are we at? You know, now you guys have the benefit of hindsight realizing, I don't know, maybe I didn't want to get engaged engaged either. I just thought I should, you know, and so now you guys have to figure this out, right? And so it's just about both of you acknowledging that you both brought tension into the relationship. You both brought drama into the relationship. You both were self centered and selfish. You may have had the best intentions. You know, when you were criticizing each other, you both, you thought you were convincing each other, you're convincing yourself, you're both helping the other person out. Instead you were just like being demeaning and criticizing and things like that. It's a balance. So, you know, listen Again, that's what I mean. You got to let the. You got to let the past go. And all that really matters is do you two love each other and do you two want to make a future with each other and are you both willing to do the work? It's that simple. It doesn't have to be that complicated. And you need to let go of the funerals. He needs to let go of the videotape, you know, and call it even. Steven. Yeah.

[D]

And it's also hard too, because it's like he has been trying even harder that he's like, done football to talk to me again when that's something that was hard. Like during the breakup, like, it was such a sharp contrast of like here by myself, like having to ask my parents to come help me move and didn't want to do all that. And he already had his room paid for him, had his friends, had his whatever. So I feel like it almost maybe didn't even hit him until later where it did, like, hit me right away. So I am kind of worried, I guess, because we did, you know, talk to the phone and that was good. Talked on the phone one more time and it was good again. So then I was like, okay, like, you want to come over? Like, we'll see, you know. And he actually met like my dog and I for a walk. And then of course, like, we come back here and have like pizza and then sleep together. Because everything just felt like so natural and normal. And it was great and awesome until like the next day when he like, left. And like, seeing him leave was just hard because I'm like, I don't know what, I'm gonna see you again. It's not like a locked in relationship. Like, it was like, it just kind of felt weird. And then he kind of, I guess, like, he kind of got maybe a little bit just like that weird feeling as well. And then we hung out another time, also had sex. And then the next morning I was really thrown off because I was kind of like he was leaving for work. And I was like, oh, like, I also like to see you, you know, later, whatever I said, like. And he kind of got weird and was like, I don't really know. Like, I'm still really confused about everything and I'm still trying to play football. And even in New Mexico, if I have to, like, leave to Mexico and play football, like, I will. Like, I just, I need to play football still. And I don't know what that leaves with us. And I don't want to feel guilty I don't want to feel guilty for getting you wrapped in this again. And I just felt like, did I just get like totally wrapped in this again? Because it's just the convenience of his offseason. And I told him, like, I've done a lot of time to think about this and work through this. And he said to me, he's like, I'm being honest. Like, you telling me how much you've been working on it is making me realize that I actually haven't thought about it like, at all. And I was like, what? Like, I feel like this whole time I've been thinking about it, like, non stop trying to work on myself, get myself through it. And that was frustrating. On top of then he said, because I was like, yeah, like I've been working on, like, I want to do better and I don't want to hold each other to the things in the past, like, I want to forgive you and move forward. And he said it freaked him out when I said that it's actually been 10 months since you've seen each other because he has been away for four months even before that, before we broke up. And he goes, I feel like it's just been too much time now. And now it's like we're just going to jump right back into it. It's all going to be the same. Where my mind was totally different this time. I was healing and trying to move forward and letting go of the past and wanting to move forward in forgiveness. And I kind of just feel like it's hard now because I'm kind of realizing he hasn't done that work that I feel like he was telling me on the phone the first time and now he's almost like, well, I'm still gonna play football. And I'm like, did you just do this to relieve some guilt that you had and want to make sure, like, we're cool or fine or like, I.

[Nick]

Don'T know if it was guilt. My guess is, my guess is he cares about you, he has feelings for you just like you have feelings for him. The difference is you've done the work and he has it. Yeah, it's kind of that simple. You know, everything else is all kind of very human nature. You know, you got, like you said you guys are very comfortable with each other. When you're gonna get together and have a date night and come to each other's houses, you're gonn, why? Because this is what you guys do. And it's so comfortable. It's just like, I don't I don't know, maybe, you know, assuming he's maybe been on a few dates too, maybe he's hooked up with a person here or there. But for the most part, you know, like, you guys bring, you know, again, there's. It's very easy for you guys to be your emotional support system, to be your physical support system. So that's what you fall into, right? And neither and both of you in that moment have that need. So you give into that need and then the next day, you know, you kind of reassess. All of a sudden, once that needs met, then you have other needs, right? And again, you've done the work, he hasn't. Also, like, you're a woman, he's a man, so you're probably a little bit more mature than he is. Who knows? And then obviously sex is going to affect you differently and it's going to affect him. All those elements come into play. But nothing's, you know, nothing I said really changes, right? Like, all it is is maybe to your point, a little bit of a wake up call of where you are or where he isn't, right? So nothing really has changed for you. You could say, listen, like, it, it felt like. I know you didn't mean it, but it just seems like obviously it just fucks me up a little too much when we play house, have sex. And then obviously, I know you don't mean to, but it's definitely kind of. It, it makes me sad or, you know, hurts a little bit when all of a sudden you're just like, I don't know what I want. Because now I'm kind of. I have to get over you again. I care about you. Like you, you guys need to stop pretending that you guys don't love each other or there's not some love there. You guys are so. And that's where the game playing comes in. You two have been in each other's lives for too long to just play these stupid games about, like, do you like me? Do you not like me? Do you care about me? Do you not care about me? Like, Jesus Christ. The. You guys clearly care about each other. You're still, you're still in each other's lives. You have every reason not to be, but you still are. So something's bringing you back. And maybe it's just like, you know the history, but again, I do think you have the right to set some boundaries here. It's like, listen, I'm gonna put it out there. If I had my wish, if I had one wish, and when it comes to my relationship life, it would be in a healthy relationship with you, because I love you. I want to admit that I don't think we're capable of that right now. And that makes me sad, you know, and, yeah, I don't know. I have been doing a lot of work and you have your own journey too. But, like, like I said before, if you felt the same way about that I feel, then, yeah, I would want you to do some work on your own, you know, and then, yeah, maybe we'd have to get couples therapy. Right now it's clear that football is your number one priority. I'm not here to tell you what to prioritize, but if we want to work on this, we need to be each other's top priority. And, yeah, that might include you not playing football for the sake of playing football. Like, I definitely want to get into a relationship with someone who kind of knows what they want to do with their life and their career. And I honestly, like, you would have to offer him some kind of, like, as of a reflection, I'm again, really sorry for how I handled the handle things about your football playing. I think I was a little immature. I think I was, you know, there was a lot of reasons why I did a lot of things I regret. I do need to have a future with you, but I, I, I do really respect you chasing your dreams. I think it's, I think you're going to be really glad that you played football as long as you did, and I think that's really cool. That being said, we are 28. We're getting to the point of our lives. Well, that if we want to, like, have a family and plan a future, now's kind of the time to start thinking about that. And that's kind of where I'm at, you know? So if you want a relationship with me, yeah, I need to see you more focused on the future. And I need to not have football be your number one priority because the truth is, we probably shouldn't have been dating when we were dating because, like, football was your number one priority. And I was just too stubborn to, like, accept that. And I tried to be your number one priority while football clearly was. And that's okay. I'm not even mad about it. It's just like, that's just a reality. You know, that's the thing. It is the reality. He wants to say, no, babe, you're my number one priority. But also, football is, you know, it's like there can't be both. Stop Bringing up the past other than like, hey, I want you to talk about the future with this guy.

[D]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You can acknowledge, hey, I think we have things in the past that we both are triggered by. We have both hurt each other. I don't really want to get into that, but, like, all I know is that we keep coming back in each other's lives. I'm very confused about how I feel about you, but I'm not confused that if we could figure out how to be healthy together, I would wanted it to be with you. I hope you feel the same about me. You know, we clearly can't do this on our own. I'm honestly, like, I would definitely explore going to a couple's therapist with you if we decide to get back together. I don't know if that's something you want to do, but, like, again, you gotta humble yourself to not be right and just put out what you want and see if he wants the same thing back. You're not, like, right now, you're hedging your bet. You just, you know, you're. You immediately. You can't start a conversation. I'm willing to forgive you. That's putting you on a higher level than him. It's just like, yeah, of course he's gonna be like, well, what about the things I need to forgive you for? You know?

[D]

And that is how he felt like. I feel like he feels like I. I'm not, like, talking down to him, but I feel like I have been using this like. Like, oh, I've been going to therapy and I've been working on myself to feel like I know exactly what I'm, like, doing, which I've been, like, trying to be like, okay, like, I have to, like, lessen that more.

[Nick]

You need to recognize that as long as you guys have been in each other's life, you've both hurt each other a lot. And he has. He has a long list of gripes too. I bet if he called in, I could be like, I better be talking to the same person.

[D]

Yeah, it took me definitely a while. I feel like, to work on all those things. So I do kind of. And to let go of like, like that resentment I had for him. So I'm just kind of worried that if he hasn't worked on that, that it's. He's still gonna have me, have that for me, see me as that. And I just feel like I kind of need to let him have time to do therapy. But then he's also leaving a place to fall again in, like, two Months. So it kind of is pressure and not sending before.

[Nick]

I gotta go because we have to wrap this up. What do you. I want. Because I haven't. What do you, what do you think? I think you should do? I'm not, I'm not convinced you've heard me. And even though I've said it 20.

[D]

Times, I guess just like unblock him and try to like just figure out I answer out of this instead of competing with each other and trying to be like tit for tat on everything.

[Nick]

What would, yeah, but what would, what, what would you say to him?

[D]

I already did say like I forgive him and I want to move forward. I guess I would just kind of have to say like, I, I understand that that takes time and we're gonna have like some instances where we're not gonna be perfect and we're just gonna have to be like gentle with each other in this learning process or just, I don't even know, just either be with each other during this process or I feel like kind of let each other go at this point. It's kind of too difficult if we're never going to be on the same page, kind of.

[Nick]

I, I want you, I want you to work on listening before and I, I have this problem. I want you to work on hearing and listening and not waiting to speak. You do that a lot. I'll. I've said, you know, I've gone on these like three minute tangents and you're nodding and nodding and then before I, as soon as I finish, just like ready to go and all. And I don't really, I mean, I don't care. This is your time, you know, I don't, it's not about my feelings. But if I were someone, for example, like your ex boyfriend who wanted to feel like I was being heard, that would give me the opposite feeling, you know what I'm saying? I would want maybe you to like, you know, if I get done speaking for 60 seconds passionately about something and expressing how I feel to feel heard. I'd want that other person to like, like maybe like let some air go between, you know, that acknowledge first acknowledge what I was saying. Oh, well, actually that makes a lot of sense. Maybe ask a follow up question. Give a. About what they said. You are just waiting to speak. And, and you're, and not only are you waiting to speak, you're like, you're at, you're. You're already going 70 miles per hour two seconds into your conversation as if like you shot out of a cannon because you're just waiting for him to shut the upper. And I guarantee you that's how he feels.

[D]

And I do. I issue that. I have with him, too. So that's where we.

[Nick]

But you're both. You're both athletes. You're both competitive people. You're both love being right. You both love winning. I get it. Right. But you both have to acknowledge and. And when you speak to him, you need to again, focus on listening to him. You need to use we and us language. You have to stop saying shit like, I'm willing to forgive you. It's more like we have. We have a long history. We have both hurt each other. And I. And. And I don't think it's. We've hurt each other because we've tried to. I just think we're both stubborn people who love to win. And I think we should both acknowledge that and we should try to focus on how we should stop frustrating each other and playing games with each other and get on the same page. We and us. We and us. We and us. We and us. We and us. Write them a letter as if you're speaking to him and practice we and us language. Because right now it's you and me is I did this and you did that, and I'm right and you're wrong and you know what I'm saying? That's all. That's how. That's how you guys talk. And when he speaks, listen and think about what he is saying. And if you have a question about what he is saying for clarification to, like, show him that, you know, do that, but don't just start talking because that will. That will make him feel like you don't. About what he is saying. All right.

[D]

That's definitely true.

[Nick]

Okay. All right. Well, hopefully this was helpful.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. I guess I'll just unblock him and try to say I'm sorry for blocking him. And maybe, you know, I have my dog taken care of and we can maybe talk after this week when I guess both of our birthdays this week, which kind of sucks. And you're like, after this week, maybe.

[Nick]

You didn't have a very. Yes. It doesn't suck again. It. Stop. It doesn't suck. Right. It's just.

[D]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You're so used to just making problems out of nothing. Yeah. You could be like, listen, I hope you have a really great birthday. I'm thinking of you. I care about you. Just be fucking nice. All you have to think about is saying nice fucking shit to him. Right. I hope you have A happy birthday. I'll be thinking about you on your birthday. I want to figure out if we can be in each other's lives. If any part of you sees a future in me. I would love to have a conversation when I get back about what that looks like. If not, I totally get it. Then maybe we should move on. But, like, you have to use less aggressive language. It has to be inviting. It's got to be us and we. You know what I'm saying? Stop trying to fight. Stop trying to win.

[D]

I will text my ex Happy birthday is what I'm hearing.

[Nick]

There you go. You can text him. Yeah, he's very much still in your life, but yes, you can text him happy birthday. Well, keep us posted. I'm invested. I would love to. I'd love to get an update. I'd love. Get them on the phone. I'd love to talk to both of you. I bet I would learn a lot about both of you.

[D]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And maybe that's step one.

[D]

You might not get a word in between us.

[Nick]

I'm sure I'd find a way. But yeah, seriously, I would. I would love to have you guys call in together because I could probably figure out one way or the other because you. You really too. You guys got to get on the same page. You're way too competitive. But there's a lot. There's a lot of love there. So, you know.

[D]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, he might be willing to.

[Nick]

So I'll say, All right, but first sit down with them and just be vulnerable about what you hope with this man. And regardless of how he responds, just be glad and grateful that you are able to be vulnerable and honest with him about how you feel. You've wasted too much time saying something and immediately having an expectation of him, of how he cannot disappoint you. And that's not a recipe for success. He's only just going to disappoint you.

[D]

Definitely have more work to do. Myself for sure. But we all.

[Nick]

We all do. All right. All right. Take care.

[D]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Bye bye.

[Greg]

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[Nick]

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[Greg]

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[Jessica]

Good, thank you. My name is Gina, I'm 31 and my question for you is how do I stop the men I date from seeing me as their therapist and their girlfriend instead?

[Nick]

Okay, why do you think men that you date see you as your therapist?

[Jessica]

So generally the routine is I go on a couple dates with them, we get more comfortable with each other. I learn a little bit about their career, they learn about mine, their life outside of work and such and such. And then almost overnight it just seems to turn into, how is your day? I'm tired, you know, how is work? Oh, I hate my boss, I want a new job. And. And they might go into more serious stuff like how they struggle with anxiety and depression and of course I'm understanding to that. But that seems to be the conversation every time we speak. Following that, assuming we talk during the week. And so it's been another work day, they're tired again.

[Nick]

What's happening prior to you getting to the point where you're in a, where you have some kind of rapport with these men that they would be texting you on a regular basis?

[Jessica]

A couple dates. So I've seen that, I've met them in person, we've gotten a little bit more comfortable with each other. That's probably what I would say. What leads to this?

[Nick]

Okay. And minus what's going on on the text. Do you like the fact that you are texting on a regular basis with these people?

[Jessica]

I'm not a serial texter in that I want to text them 24 7. I do like daily check ins or every other day or something like that. And of course I don't push it. You know, I kind of pick up where they leave off and so to speak.

[Nick]

Just out of curiosity, like, how do you decide what men to go on dates with?

[Jessica]

I'm definitely looking for someone who's a little bit more established and really does have a life of their own and a career of their own just to kind of match our lives in that way. So I understand that of course if they're busy and have a complicated life or other priorities, pulling them other way, that might start to wear and tear on them mentally and then kind of use me as an outlet of someone to. To open up to.

[Nick]

Yeah, that makes sense. But I'm curious, like, when. And I'm glad you have that answer. You're looking for men who kind of are established in their lives, but it seems like you're going on dates with men who aren't.

[Jessica]

Yeah, it. It always seems to be like they think it's just going to get better next week or two weeks without really making serious pivots in their life that would then make them established.

[Nick]

Yeah, but I got you. I mean, and listen, I don't know. I mean, on a dating app, I'm not. I'm not necessarily recommending, as soon as you match with someone be like, all right, like, what do you. What do you do for work? How much money you make? And are. Do you love your job? You know, like.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

That being said, I mean, I do think you can try to figure out someone who. Yeah, I don't know. I do think, do you love your job would be a great qualifying question for you to ask early on in dating.

[Jessica]

Yeah, I agree.

[Nick]

Have you ever asked that?

[Jessica]

I don't, not directly. I think I more try to pick up on kind of the way they speak about it, if it's something they're passionate about or if it's something that they dread every day. I try to pick up on that when we're just chatting in the apps.

[Nick]

Okay, well, hard to pick up on things chatting in the apps. Much easier to just ask. I don't. I. I think. Do you love your job? Is a great question. It tells you a lot of things about people. For you, they would tell you if someone even likes their job and, you know, right off the bat that a man who doesn't love his job, I mean, we're talking about a whole lots of problems potentially, Right?

[Jessica]

Yeah, I agree.

[Nick]

You know, there are exceptions to all the rules, so they, so to speak. But call it misogyny, I don't know. Call it whatever you want. I don't know. But I. I still think the social expectations or the norms are that for anyone who wants to settle down, as they say, and start a family, I think more women are comfortable with the idea of maybe they work, maybe they don't. You know, it's like, maybe they want to stay home and have kids. I think they are open to having that conversation, you know, where I think for whatever reason, right or wrong, I think men feel if they don't feel established in their career, I guess, regardless if they want to settle down and have a family or not. They feel judged by themselves, judged by society, judged by their future partners. They feel like they're, you know, they're not where they should be type of thing. So there's that. Now, I. I am not in no way trying to suggest, obviously, for all the ladies out there who are very invested in their professional careers and want to do so, even after kids, I think that's beautiful, and I think that's amazing. Yada, yada. I'm just talking about societal expectations. You know what I'm saying? And so I think when you find a man who can admit he doesn't like his job, that's almost certainly a signal that this is a man who very much has more questions than answers when it comes to their future.

[Jessica]

Yeah. No, that tracks to exactly what I've heard throughout the years. Yeah.

[Nick]

And so if you're looking for someone who you don't want to be used as a therapist, if. If you are someone who. Well, one is, maybe. Are you in there? I'm guessing you've done some therapy.

[Jessica]

Oh, yeah. I've gone through the same struggles and such and did what I needed to do to get myself out of that hole.

[Nick]

I'm guessing you have a lot of friends who go, I bet. I bet you. I bet you even like giving advice.

[Jessica]

Well, I don't give advice to men.

[Nick]

No, no. I'm just saying in general. I bet.

[Jessica]

I bet.

[Nick]

I bet you like giving advice. I bet you're good at giving advice. And I bet you have a lot of friends who go to you for advice.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. All right. So despite you not, like, doing it to the men you date, you are definitely attracted to men who need your advice.

[Jessica]

Okay. Yeah, very true.

[Nick]

Yeah. It's just, you know, there. There is a one. There's a theme here, and the theme is you. So, you know, we all have to recognize when we see patterns in our lives, we have to recognize where the pattern, you know?

[Jessica]

Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah. That's why I reached out to you.

[Nick]

So, yeah. Step one, ask them, do you like your job? That could be your third question. Every guy you match on the apps, you know, and you could do it in a way that's like. I was just curious. I'm just like. I just. I just find that to be a really interesting question. Why'd you ask? I don't know. I just. It's. I mean, you're like. I mean, it's dating apps, man. I'm just trying to get to know people, you know, like.

[Jessica]

Yeah, no, yeah. I have no shame. I Can ask that. Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, so one. I honestly think that would. That would. That would cover a lot of ground that, you know, minus that. Let's say you ask that question, some guy's like, oh, yeah, I love my job. It's great. And then you like, oh, it's going on a date. You have a couple dates and officer, your third date. All of a sudden you feel like, oh, I'm. I'm being this guy's therapist again. Maybe don't be so empathetic off the bat or something. I don't know. You're.

[D]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You're doing. You. You're clearly giving the. You are making these men feel comfortable enough to open up to you, you know, so there's something you're doing, you know.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

As someone who, you know, gives advice is for. For a living these days, I am. I'm a sucker for someone who needs advice. You know what I'm saying? Like, I like it too much. I have to recognize that. And I think you like it too, when. When someone's like, hey, can I ask your advice? You perk. Up yours. Like, great. Even for the. Even if it's a date, you're like, oh, I don't want to do this, but what's your question? You know, like, yeah.

[Jessica]

Huh? No, I could see that. I always just sympathize and say, oh, gosh, I'm so sorry. You know, tell me more.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

And then that. That's the snowballing.

[Nick]

Yeah. But you probably offer. You might even offer some good advice. And so what do you think they're gonna do when they get good advice? They're gonna come back for more. You know, so one, you need to challenge yourself. Whether it's meeting people on in the Real World or on dating apps, you have to challenge yourself to actually only go on physical dates with men who have in some way shape or form show you that they are happy with their life. Okay. You know, how old are you?

[Jessica]

I'm 31.

[Nick]

How. What's the age of the men that you're often dating?

[Jessica]

My range on the app is 29 through 43.

[Nick]

Okay. And then.

[Jessica]

But I'm most often going on dates with 30 through 35.

[Nick]

30 through 35. Okay. I think you should age up a little bit.

[Jessica]

Okay. That's good advice.

[Nick]

That's a. That's a. That's a huge generalization. So I just want to acknowledge that. But, you know, I don't think nowadays, I don't think men maturing. Men are. Have always matured slower than women. And sadly, I think they're maturing even slower than before. That's a larger conversation we need to have on society. But the point is, is that it's going to be easier for you to find a man who, you know, you know, like I'm in my 30s, I was, I was sleeping on my friend's couch, I was taking a huge risk in my life and I would, you know, it's slightly different but like I was definitely not excited about like I wasn't ready to settle down and have a kid, you know.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So in General, as a 31 year old woman, you know, you might have more luck with a guy who's in his mid to late 30s or even early 40s. You know, like, I think a lot of guys nowadays, they'll get their first job, especially if they're in their business world and they, you know, they, they will get bored of that job. They want to take a big swing, they want to take a big risk. Sometimes that risk works out, some often it doesn't. And then they have to like reassess that failure of that risk in the early to mid-30s and that can be very crippling for them. And as far as their relationships, they're in because again, I think if a man feels like a failure in his professional career, he's almost incapable of being a good partner. And again, there's a deeper conversation there in terms of the why. But as far as you're concerned, I think it's about you asking better qualifying questions early on when you're dating these men and then when you get on these dates with these men, still like being mindful that you have a habit of wanting to solve these guys problems and you really need to try to find men who really aren't quite. Because there's no fix. You know what I'm saying? Like you're always going to be you. I don't think you should change who you are. I don't think you should stop giving advice if, especially if you're good at it and, and you enjoy doing it. I think there's a place for you in this world. I think you just have to be mindful of who you're surrounding yourself with because you don't want to, you know, you're going to run the risk of always being the smartest person in the room and, or the most emotional, regulated person. And you can get off on being right and you can be, you can get off on being the person who gets advice. And I think it's important for you to surround yourself with people who don't need your advice. And I think if you're in a room with people who don't need your advice, I think you can potentially feel a little bit unnecessary and get insecure sometimes. I think you're so used to being this person that I think you should challenge yourself to be. To get in rooms where no one needs your advice.

[Jessica]

Yeah, no, that's a really good way of phrasing it.

[Nick]

Yeah. And then when it comes to men you're dating, same thing. I think you just really need to challenge your. You know, stop wasting your time going on dates with men who made it very clear that they're just not settled with where they're at in their life. And if that means you go on less first dates, then so be it. It.

[Jessica]

Right. And that's fine.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, really, it just comes down to those little things, you know? So I. I'm. I'm really curious. I actually, I'd love for you to follow up. If you actually start asking, do you like your job?

[Jessica]

Okay. Yeah, I'll be happy to.

[Nick]

And don't make it so loaded. Right. Don't have it be the very first question. Do you like your job? You know, maybe two or three questions in, you know, ask a couple softballs and just like, do you like your job? It's very cash and, you know, if they're like, actually, it's fine. I don't know. I hate it. I'm looking to do other things.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Immediately not your guy.

[Jessica]

Okay. Yeah.

[Nick]

And don't feel like you need to explain it to them, Especially if it's like somebody you just matched on the app. You can. You can ghost.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Don't immediately ghost. Can figure out the conversation. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Again, don't start to be their therapist. Well, just, you know, I'm just looking for men more established. If you don't like your job, you don't explain yourself yourself. Don't. Don't. You don't know these people. They're just strangers.

[Jessica]

Yeah, no, I. I don't do that. Yeah.

[Nick]

So. Yeah, I. I bet you would. You would weed out a lot of people.

[Jessica]

Okay, I'm gonna bump my age range up and start asking that question.

[Nick]

Yeah, I would. 31 should be the lowest. I try 45. Try doing 35 to 45.

[Jessica]

35 to 45. Okay.

[Nick]

Just try it. You can always change it. You know, I don't think you should around with if. With anyone younger than you.

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Nick]

If you're meant to be dating a younger man, he will find his way into your life. You don't need to like go find. Right. You don't need to like open up the, the, your dating search for all 30 and 29 year old men.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Because then you're just opening up the door for the 29 year old who wants to feel mature for himself and, and maybe just into dating a woman who's 2 years old than him. You know what I'm saying? It's just like. But you're a big qualifier. Just should be do the. Do you like your job?

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Or to ask them what's one thing they really love about their life.

[D]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Because I mean, ultimately they're just very negative whether my response is oh, gosh, I'm sorry and that, you know, or not. It's hard to be around like I don't want texts every day of.

[Nick]

Sure.

[Jessica]

Well, my day was awful, you know, so. Yeah, I think kind of embracing or trying to find more positive men too would be helpful.

[Nick]

Yeah, it's tough out there. I don't know if there's a ton of positive men, but there are. I, you know, I do think we need to do something about our men are failing and sad. I'm worried for my daughter. But anyways, there's. There's some good ones still out there. You know, you need to find your equal, you know, and then remember you're looking for one, not many. And, and, and just you have to challenge yourself to not be their therapist if you don't want to be their therapist.

[Jessica]

Okay, sounds great.

[Nick]

All right, well, keep us posted. I'd love to know if that. If that question is, serves you well.

[Jessica]

Okay, I'll follow up.

[Nick]

All right, take care.

[Jessica]

Thank you.

[Nick]

All right, bye. Bye.

[Jessica]

Bye.

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